Re: [Elecraft] Heil PR-781 and K4

[Jim Brown]

On 11/21/2022 6:10 AM, Ron at Signs by Ron wrote:

I'm looking for feedback from anyone using a Heil PR-781 microphone with a K4.


Heil mics are cheaply made and wildly overpriced. I own a bunch of pro 
broadcast and recording quality mics, but since W6XU turned our 
contesting club on to the Yamaha CM500 in 2008, have used nothing but. 
Both mic and phones sound great, and are quite comfortable, even for 
long contest weekends.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Heil PR-781 and K4

[Bill Johnson]

Paul, I have one and excellent reports vs Gold line.
Bill
K9YEQ

Have a wonderful day!
Bill

From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  on 
behalf of Paul Van Dyke 
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2022 10:34:42 AM
To: Robert Sands 
Cc: Elecraft Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Heil PR-781 and K4

Hmmm

I have the 1st out of the shop K4D, and it is matched with the PR-781.
At this time I am in Louisiana and back at Christmas ... K4D is at home QTH
in Indiana,
The Elecraft says I sound great ... You do have to dial it in,

Paul Van Dyke - KB9AVO
K4D 076 and a whole lot of Elecraft radios


On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 10:17 AM Robert Sands  wrote:

> My 781 sounded great with K3 but terrible with K4.
> Bob
> K7VO
>
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2022, 6:11 AM Ron at Signs by Ron 
> wrote:
>
> > Hello all,
> > I'm looking for feedback from anyone using a Heil PR-781 microphone with
> a
> > K4.  It's not on Heil website's "Elecraft compatible" list, however,
> HRO's
> > catalog does list Elecraft in the list of "elite" class radios for which
> > the PR-781 is designed.  I also saw a Youtube video of a K4 operator
> using
> > a PR-781 and seemingly having a great experience.
> > Thanks in advance.
> > Ron, W1TK
> > P.S. I'm currently using a Yaesu MD-1 which seems to work great.  As I
> > re-design my shack though, I'm going to have a second mic and boom for
> the
> > K4. The MD-1 will remain connected to my Yaesu radios.
> > __
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to k7vora...@gmail.com
> >
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Re: [Elecraft] Heil PR-781 and K4

[Paul Van Dyke]

Hmmm

I have the 1st out of the shop K4D, and it is matched with the PR-781.
At this time I am in Louisiana and back at Christmas ... K4D is at home QTH
in Indiana,
The Elecraft says I sound great ... You do have to dial it in,

Paul Van Dyke - KB9AVO
K4D 076 and a whole lot of Elecraft radios


On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 10:17 AM Robert Sands  wrote:

> My 781 sounded great with K3 but terrible with K4.
> Bob
> K7VO
>
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2022, 6:11 AM Ron at Signs by Ron 
> wrote:
>
> > Hello all,
> > I'm looking for feedback from anyone using a Heil PR-781 microphone with
> a
> > K4.  It's not on Heil website's "Elecraft compatible" list, however,
> HRO's
> > catalog does list Elecraft in the list of "elite" class radios for which
> > the PR-781 is designed.  I also saw a Youtube video of a K4 operator
> using
> > a PR-781 and seemingly having a great experience.
> > Thanks in advance.
> > Ron, W1TK
> > P.S. I'm currently using a Yaesu MD-1 which seems to work great.  As I
> > re-design my shack though, I'm going to have a second mic and boom for
> the
> > K4. The MD-1 will remain connected to my Yaesu radios.
> > __
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to k7vora...@gmail.com
> >
> __
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>
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Re: [Elecraft] Heil PR-781 and K4

[Robert Sands]

My 781 sounded great with K3 but terrible with K4.
Bob
K7VO

On Mon, Nov 21, 2022, 6:11 AM Ron at Signs by Ron 
wrote:

> Hello all,
> I'm looking for feedback from anyone using a Heil PR-781 microphone with a
> K4.  It's not on Heil website's "Elecraft compatible" list, however,  HRO's
> catalog does list Elecraft in the list of "elite" class radios for which
> the PR-781 is designed.  I also saw a Youtube video of a K4 operator using
> a PR-781 and seemingly having a great experience.
> Thanks in advance.
> Ron, W1TK
> P.S. I'm currently using a Yaesu MD-1 which seems to work great.  As I
> re-design my shack though, I'm going to have a second mic and boom for the
> K4. The MD-1 will remain connected to my Yaesu radios.
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to k7vora...@gmail.com
>
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Re: [Elecraft] [POSSIBLE SPAM] Re: WTB: K4

[Dr. William J. Schmidt]

With more K3 radios broken on the bench than working at my contest station
(J68HZ)  and NO spare modules to work with, I had to make a decision on
replacement radios if we are to participate in contests in the next few
months.  Knowing that the chances of receiving 3-5 K4 radios by October were
exactly zero, I had to find something else.  Therefore, I ordered several
Flex 6600 radios.  Shipped in less than 6 weeks.  Big learning curve, but
not much of an alternative.  They also integrate very easily other
automation products.  I know plenty of others that are contemplating the
same thing.

If you find a K4 used, it will be a miracle.

Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ

email:  b...@wjschmidt.com


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On
Behalf Of Jim Brown
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2022 4:31 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [POSSIBLE SPAM] Re: [Elecraft] WTB: K4

I seriously doubt that anyone will part with one unless they're in money
trouble or giving up ham radio.

I've got one on order, but in the last few days, but I've been playing with
one that a friend loaned me while he's on vacation. Saturday night, I made
about 250 QSOs in a little less than 6 hours in the All Asia CW contest. I
love the filtering, diversity works awfully well with my Beverages, and
receive audio is significantly better than my K3s.

73, Jim K9YC

On 6/20/2022 1:36 PM, Alan D. Wilcox wrote:
> Considering adding a K4 to my shack, but not keen on the Elecraft 
> expected-delivery time.
> 
> Write or text me if you have one for me.

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Re: [Elecraft] [K4] First Impressions of K4 SN122 (LONG!)

[Wayne Burdick]

[Re-posting my reply to the original post on groups.io]


> On May 19, 2021, at 12:03 AM, N1RM - Rick Miller  wrote:
> 
> I put SN122 through its initial paces today.  Here are some of observations:

Thanks, Rick. My comments below.


> 3. The BNC connectors protrude farther out the back panel than the K3, and 
> look a little strange to me. (But who really cares what the back panel looks 
> like!)

Unlike the K3, the five BNC connectors on K4 have bushings that are used to 
physically and electrically secure the connectors to the rear panel. This is 
part of the overall noise-reduction strategy. It also provides very rigid 
mounting for the RF board.


> 2. The interior is very interesting. Most parts appear to be very cleanly 
> integrated. The CPU has a bit of a "tacked on" appearance.  I applaud 
> Elecraft for not trying to design their own high performance processor board, 
> but the interface cabling looks a little ad hoc. It all works, but I have to 
> wonder how it would survive getting knocked around enroute to a Dxpediton.

Our goal here was to be able to adapt to future single-board-computer 
technology rather than be constrained to what's available today. Swapping 
boards would be a matter of adjusting mounting screw locations on the 
replaceable adapter bracket and at worst, replacing a couple of cables.

> 
> 3. The front headphone jack was completely dead on my radio, but the rear 
> headphone jack was fine. It was pretty easy to figure out how to release the 
> front panel (thanks to Wayne's excellent video on the 3D model of the K4). 
> The front headphone jack attaches to its circuit board with a socket that 
> plugs onto a 4-pin header. That connector was completely off the header

We're going to improve the mating connectors. Thanks for finding and reporting 
this.


> 
> 4. The pushbutton switches on the front panel are much more solid, with 
> better tactile feedback than the K3. I like them much better.

This is due to our use of real tact switches beneath the rubber in the K4. The 
K3 (and our other products with rubber switch matrices) uses carbon-dot 
contacts that rely on hysteresis in the rubber itself.


> 3. Tx audio compression seems to be very weak compared to the K3.  Even at 30 
> (max setting), it seemed to do less than a setting of 10 on the K3. It might 
> need some DSP attention.

Agreed. This is on our list.


> 
> 4. Most of the UI is absolutely great...
> 
> 5. The spectrum display system is a work of art...

> 6. Data and CW decoders can run simultaneously on the A and B VFO 
> frequencies...

Thanks for these observations :)

> 
> One weird thing:
> 1. I noticed very shortly after I turned the radio on for the first time (AF 
> gain at zero, no antenna connected) that I thought I had a ringing in my 
> ears.  When I turned off the radio it went away.  It wasn't loud, it just 
> felt like a very slight case of tinnitus. It was sort of like one of those 
> high pitched tones that you try to guess if it's there during a hearing test. 
> I noticed that it seemed to come and go as the display came up and went away. 
> (I resisted the urge to hold my finger up and down as it came and went :) 
> Then I noticed that it got fainter if I turned the display brightness down.  
> Just to be sure I wasn't imagining it, I hooked a microphone up to my PC and 
> Audacity, held it in front of the display, and then powered up the radio.  I 
> could see nothing in the time domain, but when I ran a spectrum on it, there 
> was a very distinct spike at 10 kHz. The spike disappeared with the radio 
> off. The "ham demographic" probably includes very few who could hear it, but 
 I'm one of them.  Just to put it in proper perspective, I'm that guy who 
during sound checks in church says "where is that squeal coming from?" and 
everyone else looks at me like I'm nuts.  It's just barely on the edge of being 
annoying, but there is hopefully something that can be done to mitigate it for 
those of us that can still hear weak 10 kHz audio. My guess is that it is a 
DC-DC boost converter somewhere in the display with a ringing inductor.

We'll definitely investigate whether it's a DC-DC converter on the front panel 
board or within the LCD itself. If there's a way to suppress the 10 kHz a bit, 
we'll find it. 


> 
> Bottom line:
> While very reminiscent of the K3, this is NOT a K3. It sounds better on Tx 
> and Rx and its UI is a whole new animal for Elecraft (in a good way!). It has 
> far more connectivity and control options than the K3, which means you will 
> have to invest some time to learn how the K4 thinks and acts.  I waited 
> exactly 2 years (to the day!) for this radio, and I can say that it was 
> certainly worth it for me.  Congratulations to Wayne and the whole Elecraft 
> team for getting this radio out under some really tough conditions.

Appreciate the feedback!

73,
Wayne
N6KR





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Re: [Elecraft] QSO Today Expo - Estimated K4 related shipping schedule

[David Herring]

Investor.  ;-) 

I’ll grant you we’re not investors in the traditional sense. But we’ve invested 
in the company nonetheless. Would you prefer venture capitalist instead? We 
provided funds that Elecraft was able to use to stay afloat and continue 
engineering and manufacturing efforts. Sure, we’re not going to make back 
millions on our “investment” and we have no stake in the company, but we will 
get one heck of a radio. That’s really all I cared about, to be honest. 

Someone in the thread mentioned they are hearing lots of excuses. I have not. 
If all I was getting was excuses I would have cut ties and got a refund a long 
time ago. What I’ve heard are valid reasons. Actual real verifiable things that 
have happened that are out of anyone’s control.  Perhaps it’s just a matter of 
personal perspective.

I think that most agree a periodic official update with a little more 
regularity would be nice, but perhaps not at the cost of getting rigs out the 
door.

73,
David - N5DCH



> On Mar 31, 2021, at 1:29 PM, Julia Tuttle  wrote:
> 
> Yeah, periodic would be fine -- I think the big thing is setting
> expectations for when and where, so folks can check there instead of
> wondering or asking.
> 
> And I'm totally fine with the event video updates as long as the content is
> also available in a text form somewhere obvious. (Heck, I'd volunteer to
> transcribe them if it that'd be helpful.)
> 
> Honestly, I think sharing a little more of what's gone wrong and right
> might be helpful -- I know I'm more sympathetic about this sort of thing
> when I have an idea what's going on -- but I don't have a clear idea of the
> downsides.
> 
> The aircraft option seems problematically local -- perhaps we could launch
> a small satellite instead. :D
> 
> 73,
> 
> Julie
> 
> On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 15:20 Hal Massey  > wrote:
> 
>> Julia, that makes sense. Perhaps we could add ‘periodic update instead of
>> whenever they can?”
>> PS— I like the event video updates because those clear the noise threshold
>> of the multitude of emails I get but that is just a personal preference. A
>> loud sky writing aircraft overhead for 7-8 hours would work even better for
>> me but that’s probably asking too much.
>> 
>> Regards
>> -Hal
>> 
>> On Mar 31, 2021, at 12:37 PM, Julia Tuttle  wrote:
>> 
>> I'm not waiting on a K4 myself, but the K4 launch has put a strain on
>> other parts of the business (like fixing KX3 firmware issues or responding
>> to lower-priority support emails).
>> 
>> I'd be happy to see updates whenever they're available, but to this list
>> and clearly labeled as such -- it seems like a lot of the time the details
>> come out in the middle of other threads that folks might miss. Somewhere on
>> the website would also be nice.
>> 
>> On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 14:33 Hal Massey > > wrote:
>> 
>>> What do you have in mind? I liked the event video.
>>> 
>>> The most customer oriented thing they could do is fedex a letter
>>> overnight with your radio status every day. But that gets expensive. You
>>> might feel great about it. You say that is hyperbolic? True. But even a
>>> weekly email with status is not cheap.
>>> 
>>> Can you articulate what you do want in terms of communications?
>>> 
>>> Regards
>>> Hal
>>> 
>>> On Mar 31, 2021, at 12:24 PM, Julia Tuttle >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> "The point of all of this is why is Elecraft not on this list telling us
>>> these things like they used to?"
>>> 
>>> Yes, that, right there.
>>> 
>>> However much they are or aren't going to say, why do we have to watch
>>> event
>>> videos to hear it?
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 14:16 W0MU Mike Fatchett >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> The point of all of this is why is Elecraft not on this list telling us
>>> these things like they used to?
>>> 
>>> I hear lots of excuses.  Sure there are supply line problems for
>>> everyone.  HRO still has lots of product.  Elecraft has a big competitor
>>> in FLEX are they having similar issues?  I hear that some big box radios
>>> have some wait times but not in the years category.
>>> 
>>> K4 investor?  You have not invested in the company you are a customer
>>> unless I missed the profit sharing version of the K4.
>>> 
>>> Most people have given them lots of slack. Why is communicating with
>>> people that have fronted you lots of money to make this radio possible
>>> so difficult.  I don't get it.
>>> 
>>> I don't have a K4 on order either but if I did I might be concerned.
>>> 
>>> W0MU
>>> 
>>> On 3/31/2021 10:13 AM, David Herring wrote:
>>> 
>>> Further to this excellent post, Eric did say that, at that point in
>>> 
>>> time, his expectation was that the group A backlog would be cleared by end
>>> of May.  I didn’t go back through the video to find it, but I was watching
>>> one of his presentations live and did hear that.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Another thing that Wayne mentioned in one of the meeting 

Re: [Elecraft] QSO Today Expo - Estimated K4 related shipping schedule

[Julia Tuttle]

Yeah, periodic would be fine -- I think the big thing is setting
expectations for when and where, so folks can check there instead of
wondering or asking.

And I'm totally fine with the event video updates as long as the content is
also available in a text form somewhere obvious. (Heck, I'd volunteer to
transcribe them if it that'd be helpful.)

Honestly, I think sharing a little more of what's gone wrong and right
might be helpful -- I know I'm more sympathetic about this sort of thing
when I have an idea what's going on -- but I don't have a clear idea of the
downsides.

The aircraft option seems problematically local -- perhaps we could launch
a small satellite instead. :D

73,

Julie

On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 15:20 Hal Massey  wrote:

> Julia, that makes sense. Perhaps we could add ‘periodic update instead of
> whenever they can?”
> PS— I like the event video updates because those clear the noise threshold
> of the multitude of emails I get but that is just a personal preference. A
> loud sky writing aircraft overhead for 7-8 hours would work even better for
> me but that’s probably asking too much.
>
> Regards
> -Hal
>
> On Mar 31, 2021, at 12:37 PM, Julia Tuttle  wrote:
>
> I'm not waiting on a K4 myself, but the K4 launch has put a strain on
> other parts of the business (like fixing KX3 firmware issues or responding
> to lower-priority support emails).
>
> I'd be happy to see updates whenever they're available, but to this list
> and clearly labeled as such -- it seems like a lot of the time the details
> come out in the middle of other threads that folks might miss. Somewhere on
> the website would also be nice.
>
> On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 14:33 Hal Massey  wrote:
>
>> What do you have in mind? I liked the event video.
>>
>> The most customer oriented thing they could do is fedex a letter
>> overnight with your radio status every day. But that gets expensive. You
>> might feel great about it. You say that is hyperbolic? True. But even a
>> weekly email with status is not cheap.
>>
>> Can you articulate what you do want in terms of communications?
>>
>> Regards
>> Hal
>>
>> On Mar 31, 2021, at 12:24 PM, Julia Tuttle  wrote:
>>
>> "The point of all of this is why is Elecraft not on this list telling us
>> these things like they used to?"
>>
>> Yes, that, right there.
>>
>> However much they are or aren't going to say, why do we have to watch
>> event
>> videos to hear it?
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 14:16 W0MU Mike Fatchett  wrote:
>>
>> The point of all of this is why is Elecraft not on this list telling us
>> these things like they used to?
>>
>> I hear lots of excuses.  Sure there are supply line problems for
>> everyone.  HRO still has lots of product.  Elecraft has a big competitor
>> in FLEX are they having similar issues?  I hear that some big box radios
>> have some wait times but not in the years category.
>>
>> K4 investor?  You have not invested in the company you are a customer
>> unless I missed the profit sharing version of the K4.
>>
>> Most people have given them lots of slack. Why is communicating with
>> people that have fronted you lots of money to make this radio possible
>> so difficult.  I don't get it.
>>
>> I don't have a K4 on order either but if I did I might be concerned.
>>
>> W0MU
>>
>> On 3/31/2021 10:13 AM, David Herring wrote:
>>
>> Further to this excellent post, Eric did say that, at that point in
>>
>> time, his expectation was that the group A backlog would be cleared by end
>> of May.  I didn’t go back through the video to find it, but I was watching
>> one of his presentations live and did hear that.
>>
>>
>> Another thing that Wayne mentioned in one of the meeting rooms was that
>>
>> at one point Elecraft had to go back and re-design a portion of the K4
>> because tariffs levied on certain parts from certain countries would have
>> rendered the project unaffordable.
>>
>>
>> What’s more, and I don’t recall which of them said it, but Elecraft
>>
>> apparently had to deal with retirements of certain important people in the
>> process.
>>
>>
>> Ordinarily I’d never wait 2+ years for delivery of a product I’d
>>
>> ordered, perhaps many of us wouldn’t, but…
>>
>>
>> Tariffs, Retirements, The Pandemic, Employees Down With COVID, Wild
>>
>> Fires (and employee loss of property), Vendor Delays…
>>
>>
>> None of that was under Elecraft’s control. Not much of that could have
>>
>> been foreseen.  “Stuff” happens.
>>
>>
>> That is why, I imagine, most of us K4 investors are just patiently
>>
>> waiting.  Content to give them the space they need to press on with
>> addressing the issues as they come and moving forward.
>>
>>
>> 73,
>> David - N5DCH
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 31, 2021, at 9:23 AM, Kimo Chun  wrote:
>>
>> Presentation from the Expo.
>> Elecraft K4 High Performance Direct-Sampling SDR Transceiver, Eric
>>
>> Swartz
>>
>> WA6HHQ 
>>
>> Perhaps more recent announcements by Elecraft have superseded this.
>> I 

Re: [Elecraft] QSO Today Expo - Estimated K4 related shipping schedule

[Hal Massey]

Julia, that makes sense. Perhaps we could add ‘periodic update instead of 
whenever they can?” 
PS— I like the event video updates because those clear the noise threshold of 
the multitude of emails I get but that is just a personal preference. A loud 
sky writing aircraft overhead for 7-8 hours would work even better for me but 
that’s probably asking too much.

Regards
-Hal

> On Mar 31, 2021, at 12:37 PM, Julia Tuttle  wrote:
> 
> I'm not waiting on a K4 myself, but the K4 launch has put a strain on other 
> parts of the business (like fixing KX3 firmware issues or responding to 
> lower-priority support emails).
> 
> I'd be happy to see updates whenever they're available, but to this list and 
> clearly labeled as such -- it seems like a lot of the time the details come 
> out in the middle of other threads that folks might miss. Somewhere on the 
> website would also be nice.
> 
> On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 14:33 Hal Massey  > wrote:
> What do you have in mind? I liked the event video. 
> 
> The most customer oriented thing they could do is fedex a letter overnight 
> with your radio status every day. But that gets expensive. You might feel 
> great about it. You say that is hyperbolic? True. But even a weekly email 
> with status is not cheap. 
> 
> Can you articulate what you do want in terms of communications? 
> 
> Regards
> Hal
> 
>> On Mar 31, 2021, at 12:24 PM, Julia Tuttle > > wrote:
>> 
>> "The point of all of this is why is Elecraft not on this list telling us
>> these things like they used to?"
>> 
>> Yes, that, right there.
>> 
>> However much they are or aren't going to say, why do we have to watch event
>> videos to hear it?
>> 
>> On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 14:16 W0MU Mike Fatchett > > wrote:
>> 
>>> The point of all of this is why is Elecraft not on this list telling us
>>> these things like they used to?
>>> 
>>> I hear lots of excuses.  Sure there are supply line problems for
>>> everyone.  HRO still has lots of product.  Elecraft has a big competitor
>>> in FLEX are they having similar issues?  I hear that some big box radios
>>> have some wait times but not in the years category.
>>> 
>>> K4 investor?  You have not invested in the company you are a customer
>>> unless I missed the profit sharing version of the K4.
>>> 
>>> Most people have given them lots of slack. Why is communicating with
>>> people that have fronted you lots of money to make this radio possible
>>> so difficult.  I don't get it.
>>> 
>>> I don't have a K4 on order either but if I did I might be concerned.
>>> 
>>> W0MU
>>> 
>>> On 3/31/2021 10:13 AM, David Herring wrote:
 Further to this excellent post, Eric did say that, at that point in
>>> time, his expectation was that the group A backlog would be cleared by end
>>> of May.  I didn’t go back through the video to find it, but I was watching
>>> one of his presentations live and did hear that.
 
 Another thing that Wayne mentioned in one of the meeting rooms was that
>>> at one point Elecraft had to go back and re-design a portion of the K4
>>> because tariffs levied on certain parts from certain countries would have
>>> rendered the project unaffordable.
 
 What’s more, and I don’t recall which of them said it, but Elecraft
>>> apparently had to deal with retirements of certain important people in the
>>> process.
 
 Ordinarily I’d never wait 2+ years for delivery of a product I’d
>>> ordered, perhaps many of us wouldn’t, but…
 
 Tariffs, Retirements, The Pandemic, Employees Down With COVID, Wild
>>> Fires (and employee loss of property), Vendor Delays…
 
 None of that was under Elecraft’s control. Not much of that could have
>>> been foreseen.  “Stuff” happens.
 
 That is why, I imagine, most of us K4 investors are just patiently
>>> waiting.  Content to give them the space they need to press on with
>>> addressing the issues as they come and moving forward.
 
 73,
 David - N5DCH
 
 
 
> On Mar 31, 2021, at 9:23 AM, Kimo Chun  > wrote:
> 
> Presentation from the Expo.
> Elecraft K4 High Performance Direct-Sampling SDR Transceiver, Eric
>>> Swartz
> WA6HHQ  >
> 
> Perhaps more recent announcements by Elecraft have superseded this.
> I realize others have already mentioned some of this. But I thought I'd
>>> go
> back (for the 3rd time) to try to itemize some of Eric's statements.
>>> Note:
> I don't take dictation and didn't spend a lot of time replaying it over
>>> and
> over to get everything verbatim. Nor replaying the whole thing.
> These are my interpretations and words. Please pardon any omissions or
> errors. Go listen for yourself. The delivery time frames are based on
>>> the
> Expo date: 

Re: [Elecraft] QSO Today Expo - Estimated K4 related shipping schedule

[Julia Tuttle]

I'm not waiting on a K4 myself, but the K4 launch has put a strain on other
parts of the business (like fixing KX3 firmware issues or responding to
lower-priority support emails).

I'd be happy to see updates whenever they're available, but to this list
and clearly labeled as such -- it seems like a lot of the time the details
come out in the middle of other threads that folks might miss. Somewhere on
the website would also be nice.

On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 14:33 Hal Massey  wrote:

> What do you have in mind? I liked the event video.
>
> The most customer oriented thing they could do is fedex a letter overnight
> with your radio status every day. But that gets expensive. You might feel
> great about it. You say that is hyperbolic? True. But even a weekly email
> with status is not cheap.
>
> Can you articulate what you do want in terms of communications?
>
> Regards
> Hal
>
> On Mar 31, 2021, at 12:24 PM, Julia Tuttle  wrote:
>
> "The point of all of this is why is Elecraft not on this list telling us
> these things like they used to?"
>
> Yes, that, right there.
>
> However much they are or aren't going to say, why do we have to watch event
> videos to hear it?
>
> On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 14:16 W0MU Mike Fatchett  wrote:
>
> The point of all of this is why is Elecraft not on this list telling us
> these things like they used to?
>
> I hear lots of excuses.  Sure there are supply line problems for
> everyone.  HRO still has lots of product.  Elecraft has a big competitor
> in FLEX are they having similar issues?  I hear that some big box radios
> have some wait times but not in the years category.
>
> K4 investor?  You have not invested in the company you are a customer
> unless I missed the profit sharing version of the K4.
>
> Most people have given them lots of slack. Why is communicating with
> people that have fronted you lots of money to make this radio possible
> so difficult.  I don't get it.
>
> I don't have a K4 on order either but if I did I might be concerned.
>
> W0MU
>
> On 3/31/2021 10:13 AM, David Herring wrote:
>
> Further to this excellent post, Eric did say that, at that point in
>
> time, his expectation was that the group A backlog would be cleared by end
> of May.  I didn’t go back through the video to find it, but I was watching
> one of his presentations live and did hear that.
>
>
> Another thing that Wayne mentioned in one of the meeting rooms was that
>
> at one point Elecraft had to go back and re-design a portion of the K4
> because tariffs levied on certain parts from certain countries would have
> rendered the project unaffordable.
>
>
> What’s more, and I don’t recall which of them said it, but Elecraft
>
> apparently had to deal with retirements of certain important people in the
> process.
>
>
> Ordinarily I’d never wait 2+ years for delivery of a product I’d
>
> ordered, perhaps many of us wouldn’t, but…
>
>
> Tariffs, Retirements, The Pandemic, Employees Down With COVID, Wild
>
> Fires (and employee loss of property), Vendor Delays…
>
>
> None of that was under Elecraft’s control. Not much of that could have
>
> been foreseen.  “Stuff” happens.
>
>
> That is why, I imagine, most of us K4 investors are just patiently
>
> waiting.  Content to give them the space they need to press on with
> addressing the issues as they come and moving forward.
>
>
> 73,
> David - N5DCH
>
>
>
> On Mar 31, 2021, at 9:23 AM, Kimo Chun  wrote:
>
> Presentation from the Expo.
> Elecraft K4 High Performance Direct-Sampling SDR Transceiver, Eric
>
> Swartz
>
> WA6HHQ 
>
> Perhaps more recent announcements by Elecraft have superseded this.
> I realize others have already mentioned some of this. But I thought I'd
>
> go
>
> back (for the 3rd time) to try to itemize some of Eric's statements.
>
> Note:
>
> I don't take dictation and didn't spend a lot of time replaying it over
>
> and
>
> over to get everything verbatim. Nor replaying the whole thing.
> These are my interpretations and words. Please pardon any omissions or
> errors. Go listen for yourself. The delivery time frames are based on
>
> the
>
> Expo date: March 13, 2021.
>
> Check minutes 17:00 to about 20:00 and around 1:22:00 on. There are
>
> other
>
> segments.
> -He discusses the supply problems they had due to COVID and how they
>
> have
>
> now amassed an inventory of the long lead time items in the last 3 to 4
> weeks. A local chassis supplier was one of the most recent hang ups.
>
> Plus
>
> parts stuck in shipments the COVID-restricted Longshoremen haven't
>
> handled
>
> yet. They are now smoothing things out and production will be ramping
>
> up.
>
>
> Kit versions are at least 4 to 5 months out.
> -They are still learning and modifying production techniques which will
> make it easier to build. Then how-to documentation must be updated.
> -The first day orders 16th (2019?) at Dayton, may be fulfilled soon.
> -The second day orders 17th will be 3 to 4 weeks or 

Re: [Elecraft] QSO Today Expo - Estimated K4 related shipping schedule

[Hal Massey]

What do you have in mind? I liked the event video. 

The most customer oriented thing they could do is fedex a letter overnight with 
your radio status every day. But that gets expensive. You might feel great 
about it. You say that is hyperbolic? True. But even a weekly email with status 
is not cheap. 

Can you articulate what you do want in terms of communications? 

Regards
Hal

> On Mar 31, 2021, at 12:24 PM, Julia Tuttle  wrote:
> 
> "The point of all of this is why is Elecraft not on this list telling us
> these things like they used to?"
> 
> Yes, that, right there.
> 
> However much they are or aren't going to say, why do we have to watch event
> videos to hear it?
> 
> On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 14:16 W0MU Mike Fatchett  > wrote:
> 
>> The point of all of this is why is Elecraft not on this list telling us
>> these things like they used to?
>> 
>> I hear lots of excuses.  Sure there are supply line problems for
>> everyone.  HRO still has lots of product.  Elecraft has a big competitor
>> in FLEX are they having similar issues?  I hear that some big box radios
>> have some wait times but not in the years category.
>> 
>> K4 investor?  You have not invested in the company you are a customer
>> unless I missed the profit sharing version of the K4.
>> 
>> Most people have given them lots of slack. Why is communicating with
>> people that have fronted you lots of money to make this radio possible
>> so difficult.  I don't get it.
>> 
>> I don't have a K4 on order either but if I did I might be concerned.
>> 
>> W0MU
>> 
>> On 3/31/2021 10:13 AM, David Herring wrote:
>>> Further to this excellent post, Eric did say that, at that point in
>> time, his expectation was that the group A backlog would be cleared by end
>> of May.  I didn’t go back through the video to find it, but I was watching
>> one of his presentations live and did hear that.
>>> 
>>> Another thing that Wayne mentioned in one of the meeting rooms was that
>> at one point Elecraft had to go back and re-design a portion of the K4
>> because tariffs levied on certain parts from certain countries would have
>> rendered the project unaffordable.
>>> 
>>> What’s more, and I don’t recall which of them said it, but Elecraft
>> apparently had to deal with retirements of certain important people in the
>> process.
>>> 
>>> Ordinarily I’d never wait 2+ years for delivery of a product I’d
>> ordered, perhaps many of us wouldn’t, but…
>>> 
>>> Tariffs, Retirements, The Pandemic, Employees Down With COVID, Wild
>> Fires (and employee loss of property), Vendor Delays…
>>> 
>>> None of that was under Elecraft’s control. Not much of that could have
>> been foreseen.  “Stuff” happens.
>>> 
>>> That is why, I imagine, most of us K4 investors are just patiently
>> waiting.  Content to give them the space they need to press on with
>> addressing the issues as they come and moving forward.
>>> 
>>> 73,
>>> David - N5DCH
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Mar 31, 2021, at 9:23 AM, Kimo Chun  wrote:
 
 Presentation from the Expo.
 Elecraft K4 High Performance Direct-Sampling SDR Transceiver, Eric
>> Swartz
 WA6HHQ 
 
 Perhaps more recent announcements by Elecraft have superseded this.
 I realize others have already mentioned some of this. But I thought I'd
>> go
 back (for the 3rd time) to try to itemize some of Eric's statements.
>> Note:
 I don't take dictation and didn't spend a lot of time replaying it over
>> and
 over to get everything verbatim. Nor replaying the whole thing.
 These are my interpretations and words. Please pardon any omissions or
 errors. Go listen for yourself. The delivery time frames are based on
>> the
 Expo date: March 13, 2021.
 
 Check minutes 17:00 to about 20:00 and around 1:22:00 on. There are
>> other
 segments.
 -He discusses the supply problems they had due to COVID and how they
>> have
 now amassed an inventory of the long lead time items in the last 3 to 4
 weeks. A local chassis supplier was one of the most recent hang ups.
>> Plus
 parts stuck in shipments the COVID-restricted Longshoremen haven't
>> handled
 yet. They are now smoothing things out and production will be ramping
>> up.
 
 Kit versions are at least 4 to 5 months out.
 -They are still learning and modifying production techniques which will
 make it easier to build. Then how-to documentation must be updated.
 -The first day orders 16th (2019?) at Dayton, may be fulfilled soon.
 -The second day orders 17th will be 3 to 4 weeks or longer after Group
>> A is
 done.
 -Group B is even larger than Group A.
 -Orders kept coming in all summer after Dayton and have dropped to a
 consistent medium rate. Some spikes like when it was announced they
>> started
 shipping.
 -When asked, "If I were to order a K4 right now, how long would I have
>> to
 wait?", he answered, 

Re: [Elecraft] QSO Today Expo - Estimated K4 related shipping schedule

[Hal Massey]

They did communicate and recently. Did you miss that? 

I also cracked up at the word investor. Customer and investor are worlds apart. 

Are you an actual stake holder in this conversation? I am. I paid in advance 
for my K4.


I don’t feel like I need anymore communications than I have already received. 
Nor do I feel like rehashing this over and over or having non stake holders 
popping off randomly will make any difference. Did I miss something? 

Regards
-Hal



> On Mar 31, 2021, at 12:15 PM, W0MU Mike Fatchett  wrote:
> 
> The point of all of this is why is Elecraft not on this list telling us these 
> things like they used to?
> 
> I hear lots of excuses.  Sure there are supply line problems for everyone.  
> HRO still has lots of product.  Elecraft has a big competitor in FLEX are 
> they having similar issues?  I hear that some big box radios have some wait 
> times but not in the years category.
> 
> K4 investor?  You have not invested in the company you are a customer unless 
> I missed the profit sharing version of the K4.
> 
> Most people have given them lots of slack. Why is communicating with people 
> that have fronted you lots of money to make this radio possible so difficult. 
>  I don't get it.
> 
> I don't have a K4 on order either but if I did I might be concerned.
> 
> W0MU
> 
> On 3/31/2021 10:13 AM, David Herring wrote:
>> Further to this excellent post, Eric did say that, at that point in time, 
>> his expectation was that the group A backlog would be cleared by end of May. 
>>  I didn’t go back through the video to find it, but I was watching one of 
>> his presentations live and did hear that.
>> 
>> Another thing that Wayne mentioned in one of the meeting rooms was that at 
>> one point Elecraft had to go back and re-design a portion of the K4 because 
>> tariffs levied on certain parts from certain countries would have rendered 
>> the project unaffordable.
>> 
>> What’s more, and I don’t recall which of them said it, but Elecraft 
>> apparently had to deal with retirements of certain important people in the 
>> process.
>> 
>> Ordinarily I’d never wait 2+ years for delivery of a product I’d ordered, 
>> perhaps many of us wouldn’t, but…
>> 
>> Tariffs, Retirements, The Pandemic, Employees Down With COVID, Wild Fires 
>> (and employee loss of property), Vendor Delays…
>> 
>> None of that was under Elecraft’s control. Not much of that could have been 
>> foreseen.  “Stuff” happens.
>> 
>> That is why, I imagine, most of us K4 investors are just patiently waiting.  
>> Content to give them the space they need to press on with addressing the 
>> issues as they come and moving forward.
>> 
>> 73,
>> David - N5DCH
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 31, 2021, at 9:23 AM, Kimo Chun  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Presentation from the Expo.
>>> Elecraft K4 High Performance Direct-Sampling SDR Transceiver, Eric Swartz
>>> WA6HHQ 
>>> 
>>> Perhaps more recent announcements by Elecraft have superseded this.
>>> I realize others have already mentioned some of this. But I thought I'd go
>>> back (for the 3rd time) to try to itemize some of Eric's statements. Note:
>>> I don't take dictation and didn't spend a lot of time replaying it over and
>>> over to get everything verbatim. Nor replaying the whole thing.
>>> These are my interpretations and words. Please pardon any omissions or
>>> errors. Go listen for yourself. The delivery time frames are based on the
>>> Expo date: March 13, 2021.
>>> 
>>> Check minutes 17:00 to about 20:00 and around 1:22:00 on. There are other
>>> segments.
>>> -He discusses the supply problems they had due to COVID and how they have
>>> now amassed an inventory of the long lead time items in the last 3 to 4
>>> weeks. A local chassis supplier was one of the most recent hang ups. Plus
>>> parts stuck in shipments the COVID-restricted Longshoremen haven't handled
>>> yet. They are now smoothing things out and production will be ramping up.
>>> 
>>> Kit versions are at least 4 to 5 months out.
>>> -They are still learning and modifying production techniques which will
>>> make it easier to build. Then how-to documentation must be updated.
>>> -The first day orders 16th (2019?) at Dayton, may be fulfilled soon.
>>> -The second day orders 17th will be 3 to 4 weeks or longer after Group A is
>>> done.
>>> -Group B is even larger than Group A.
>>> -Orders kept coming in all summer after Dayton and have dropped to a
>>> consistent medium rate. Some spikes like when it was announced they started
>>> shipping.
>>> -When asked, "If I were to order a K4 right now, how long would I have to
>>> wait?", he answered, "Over 3 to 4 months".
>>> - I asked the very last question - When will the K4HD be finalized? He
>>> said, "Conservatively... by the end of the year". So production comes
>>> sometime thereafter. Plug in upgrades to the K4D, presumably, first for
>>> those who ordered K4HD but took the K4D first.
>>> - Testimonials from K4 

Re: [Elecraft] QSO Today Expo - Estimated K4 related shipping schedule

[Julia Tuttle]

"The point of all of this is why is Elecraft not on this list telling us
these things like they used to?"

Yes, that, right there.

However much they are or aren't going to say, why do we have to watch event
videos to hear it?

On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 14:16 W0MU Mike Fatchett  wrote:

> The point of all of this is why is Elecraft not on this list telling us
> these things like they used to?
>
> I hear lots of excuses.  Sure there are supply line problems for
> everyone.  HRO still has lots of product.  Elecraft has a big competitor
> in FLEX are they having similar issues?  I hear that some big box radios
> have some wait times but not in the years category.
>
> K4 investor?  You have not invested in the company you are a customer
> unless I missed the profit sharing version of the K4.
>
> Most people have given them lots of slack. Why is communicating with
> people that have fronted you lots of money to make this radio possible
> so difficult.  I don't get it.
>
> I don't have a K4 on order either but if I did I might be concerned.
>
> W0MU
>
> On 3/31/2021 10:13 AM, David Herring wrote:
> > Further to this excellent post, Eric did say that, at that point in
> time, his expectation was that the group A backlog would be cleared by end
> of May.  I didn’t go back through the video to find it, but I was watching
> one of his presentations live and did hear that.
> >
> > Another thing that Wayne mentioned in one of the meeting rooms was that
> at one point Elecraft had to go back and re-design a portion of the K4
> because tariffs levied on certain parts from certain countries would have
> rendered the project unaffordable.
> >
> > What’s more, and I don’t recall which of them said it, but Elecraft
> apparently had to deal with retirements of certain important people in the
> process.
> >
> > Ordinarily I’d never wait 2+ years for delivery of a product I’d
> ordered, perhaps many of us wouldn’t, but…
> >
> > Tariffs, Retirements, The Pandemic, Employees Down With COVID, Wild
> Fires (and employee loss of property), Vendor Delays…
> >
> > None of that was under Elecraft’s control. Not much of that could have
> been foreseen.  “Stuff” happens.
> >
> > That is why, I imagine, most of us K4 investors are just patiently
> waiting.  Content to give them the space they need to press on with
> addressing the issues as they come and moving forward.
> >
> > 73,
> > David - N5DCH
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Mar 31, 2021, at 9:23 AM, Kimo Chun  wrote:
> >>
> >> Presentation from the Expo.
> >> Elecraft K4 High Performance Direct-Sampling SDR Transceiver, Eric
> Swartz
> >> WA6HHQ 
> >>
> >> Perhaps more recent announcements by Elecraft have superseded this.
> >> I realize others have already mentioned some of this. But I thought I'd
> go
> >> back (for the 3rd time) to try to itemize some of Eric's statements.
> Note:
> >> I don't take dictation and didn't spend a lot of time replaying it over
> and
> >> over to get everything verbatim. Nor replaying the whole thing.
> >> These are my interpretations and words. Please pardon any omissions or
> >> errors. Go listen for yourself. The delivery time frames are based on
> the
> >> Expo date: March 13, 2021.
> >>
> >> Check minutes 17:00 to about 20:00 and around 1:22:00 on. There are
> other
> >> segments.
> >> -He discusses the supply problems they had due to COVID and how they
> have
> >> now amassed an inventory of the long lead time items in the last 3 to 4
> >> weeks. A local chassis supplier was one of the most recent hang ups.
> Plus
> >> parts stuck in shipments the COVID-restricted Longshoremen haven't
> handled
> >> yet. They are now smoothing things out and production will be ramping
> up.
> >>
> >> Kit versions are at least 4 to 5 months out.
> >> -They are still learning and modifying production techniques which will
> >> make it easier to build. Then how-to documentation must be updated.
> >> -The first day orders 16th (2019?) at Dayton, may be fulfilled soon.
> >> -The second day orders 17th will be 3 to 4 weeks or longer after Group
> A is
> >> done.
> >> -Group B is even larger than Group A.
> >> -Orders kept coming in all summer after Dayton and have dropped to a
> >> consistent medium rate. Some spikes like when it was announced they
> started
> >> shipping.
> >> -When asked, "If I were to order a K4 right now, how long would I have
> to
> >> wait?", he answered, "Over 3 to 4 months".
> >> - I asked the very last question - When will the K4HD be finalized? He
> >> said, "Conservatively... by the end of the year". So production comes
> >> sometime thereafter. Plug in upgrades to the K4D, presumably, first for
> >> those who ordered K4HD but took the K4D first.
> >> - Testimonials from K4 owners would be found on the Elecraft-K4 GroupsIO
> >> list.
> >>
> >> Side bar: somewhere else in the presentation he said Group A
> >> will, hopefully, be completed in the next month or so (did I get this
> >> right? I 

Re: [Elecraft] QSO Today Expo - Estimated K4 related shipping schedule

[W0MU Mike Fatchett]

The point of all of this is why is Elecraft not on this list telling us 
these things like they used to?


I hear lots of excuses.  Sure there are supply line problems for 
everyone.  HRO still has lots of product.  Elecraft has a big competitor 
in FLEX are they having similar issues?  I hear that some big box radios 
have some wait times but not in the years category.


K4 investor?  You have not invested in the company you are a customer 
unless I missed the profit sharing version of the K4.


Most people have given them lots of slack. Why is communicating with 
people that have fronted you lots of money to make this radio possible 
so difficult.  I don't get it.


I don't have a K4 on order either but if I did I might be concerned.

W0MU

On 3/31/2021 10:13 AM, David Herring wrote:

Further to this excellent post, Eric did say that, at that point in time, his 
expectation was that the group A backlog would be cleared by end of May.  I 
didn’t go back through the video to find it, but I was watching one of his 
presentations live and did hear that.

Another thing that Wayne mentioned in one of the meeting rooms was that at one 
point Elecraft had to go back and re-design a portion of the K4 because tariffs 
levied on certain parts from certain countries would have rendered the project 
unaffordable.

What’s more, and I don’t recall which of them said it, but Elecraft apparently 
had to deal with retirements of certain important people in the process.

Ordinarily I’d never wait 2+ years for delivery of a product I’d ordered, 
perhaps many of us wouldn’t, but…

Tariffs, Retirements, The Pandemic, Employees Down With COVID, Wild Fires (and 
employee loss of property), Vendor Delays…

None of that was under Elecraft’s control. Not much of that could have been 
foreseen.  “Stuff” happens.

That is why, I imagine, most of us K4 investors are just patiently waiting.  
Content to give them the space they need to press on with addressing the issues 
as they come and moving forward.

73,
David - N5DCH




On Mar 31, 2021, at 9:23 AM, Kimo Chun  wrote:

Presentation from the Expo.
Elecraft K4 High Performance Direct-Sampling SDR Transceiver, Eric Swartz
WA6HHQ 

Perhaps more recent announcements by Elecraft have superseded this.
I realize others have already mentioned some of this. But I thought I'd go
back (for the 3rd time) to try to itemize some of Eric's statements. Note:
I don't take dictation and didn't spend a lot of time replaying it over and
over to get everything verbatim. Nor replaying the whole thing.
These are my interpretations and words. Please pardon any omissions or
errors. Go listen for yourself. The delivery time frames are based on the
Expo date: March 13, 2021.

Check minutes 17:00 to about 20:00 and around 1:22:00 on. There are other
segments.
-He discusses the supply problems they had due to COVID and how they have
now amassed an inventory of the long lead time items in the last 3 to 4
weeks. A local chassis supplier was one of the most recent hang ups. Plus
parts stuck in shipments the COVID-restricted Longshoremen haven't handled
yet. They are now smoothing things out and production will be ramping up.

Kit versions are at least 4 to 5 months out.
-They are still learning and modifying production techniques which will
make it easier to build. Then how-to documentation must be updated.
-The first day orders 16th (2019?) at Dayton, may be fulfilled soon.
-The second day orders 17th will be 3 to 4 weeks or longer after Group A is
done.
-Group B is even larger than Group A.
-Orders kept coming in all summer after Dayton and have dropped to a
consistent medium rate. Some spikes like when it was announced they started
shipping.
-When asked, "If I were to order a K4 right now, how long would I have to
wait?", he answered, "Over 3 to 4 months".
- I asked the very last question - When will the K4HD be finalized? He
said, "Conservatively... by the end of the year". So production comes
sometime thereafter. Plug in upgrades to the K4D, presumably, first for
those who ordered K4HD but took the K4D first.
- Testimonials from K4 owners would be found on the Elecraft-K4 GroupsIO
list.

Side bar: somewhere else in the presentation he said Group A
will, hopefully, be completed in the next month or so (did I get this
right? I didn't find that section). Group B (even larger) comes after that.
I haven't re-checked the definition of Group A and B sorry.

I hope this helps some of you with delivery anxiety.
73,
Kimo KH7U
(Happy with my almost new K3S s/n 11727, so the K4 is but a dream down the
road. I tend to be the opposite of bleeding edge).
__
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Re: [Elecraft] QSO Today Expo - Estimated K4 related shipping schedule

[David Herring]

Further to this excellent post, Eric did say that, at that point in time, his 
expectation was that the group A backlog would be cleared by end of May.  I 
didn’t go back through the video to find it, but I was watching one of his 
presentations live and did hear that. 

Another thing that Wayne mentioned in one of the meeting rooms was that at one 
point Elecraft had to go back and re-design a portion of the K4 because tariffs 
levied on certain parts from certain countries would have rendered the project 
unaffordable. 

What’s more, and I don’t recall which of them said it, but Elecraft apparently 
had to deal with retirements of certain important people in the process. 

Ordinarily I’d never wait 2+ years for delivery of a product I’d ordered, 
perhaps many of us wouldn’t, but…

Tariffs, Retirements, The Pandemic, Employees Down With COVID, Wild Fires (and 
employee loss of property), Vendor Delays…

None of that was under Elecraft’s control. Not much of that could have been 
foreseen.  “Stuff” happens.

That is why, I imagine, most of us K4 investors are just patiently waiting.  
Content to give them the space they need to press on with addressing the issues 
as they come and moving forward.

73,
David - N5DCH



> On Mar 31, 2021, at 9:23 AM, Kimo Chun  wrote:
> 
> Presentation from the Expo.
> Elecraft K4 High Performance Direct-Sampling SDR Transceiver, Eric Swartz
> WA6HHQ 
> 
> Perhaps more recent announcements by Elecraft have superseded this.
> I realize others have already mentioned some of this. But I thought I'd go
> back (for the 3rd time) to try to itemize some of Eric's statements. Note:
> I don't take dictation and didn't spend a lot of time replaying it over and
> over to get everything verbatim. Nor replaying the whole thing.
> These are my interpretations and words. Please pardon any omissions or
> errors. Go listen for yourself. The delivery time frames are based on the
> Expo date: March 13, 2021.
> 
> Check minutes 17:00 to about 20:00 and around 1:22:00 on. There are other
> segments.
> -He discusses the supply problems they had due to COVID and how they have
> now amassed an inventory of the long lead time items in the last 3 to 4
> weeks. A local chassis supplier was one of the most recent hang ups. Plus
> parts stuck in shipments the COVID-restricted Longshoremen haven't handled
> yet. They are now smoothing things out and production will be ramping up.
> 
> Kit versions are at least 4 to 5 months out.
> -They are still learning and modifying production techniques which will
> make it easier to build. Then how-to documentation must be updated.
> -The first day orders 16th (2019?) at Dayton, may be fulfilled soon.
> -The second day orders 17th will be 3 to 4 weeks or longer after Group A is
> done.
> -Group B is even larger than Group A.
> -Orders kept coming in all summer after Dayton and have dropped to a
> consistent medium rate. Some spikes like when it was announced they started
> shipping.
> -When asked, "If I were to order a K4 right now, how long would I have to
> wait?", he answered, "Over 3 to 4 months".
> - I asked the very last question - When will the K4HD be finalized? He
> said, "Conservatively... by the end of the year". So production comes
> sometime thereafter. Plug in upgrades to the K4D, presumably, first for
> those who ordered K4HD but took the K4D first.
> - Testimonials from K4 owners would be found on the Elecraft-K4 GroupsIO
> list.
> 
> Side bar: somewhere else in the presentation he said Group A
> will, hopefully, be completed in the next month or so (did I get this
> right? I didn't find that section). Group B (even larger) comes after that.
> I haven't re-checked the definition of Group A and B sorry.
> 
> I hope this helps some of you with delivery anxiety.
> 73,
> Kimo KH7U
> (Happy with my almost new K3S s/n 11727, so the K4 is but a dream down the
> road. I tend to be the opposite of bleeding edge).
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Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

[Phil Kane]

On 2/3/2021 9:44 AM, Eric Garner wrote:


isn't that why most expensive things require a deposit to rent them?


Some 50-60 years ago Henry Radio in California used to "rent" used 
transceivers by requiring a deposit of full sale price, which would be 
refunded less a nominal charge when the gear was returned in the same 
shape as when rented.  I took advantage of that several times.


73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

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Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

[Eric Swartz]

[END of Thread]

Folks - this topic has quickly hit the limit for single topic posts in a
short period.
In the interest of improving list SNR, let's let this thread end for now.

73
Eric   WA6HHQ
List mooderator
*elecraft.com *
Eric
*elecraft.com *


On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 2:45 PM Joe Subich, W4TV  wrote:

>
> Your numbers are entirely unrealistic for for a $4000 transceiver.
>
> The discount for a "used" (rental stock) device would need to be
> *at least* 20-25% (typical of "B Stock" in the professional AV
> world).  A two to four week rental would need to be *at least*
> $500, if not more, to cover the overhead, management, repair and
> refurbishment (with every rental) costs of such an endeavor.
>
> Given the constrained availability of the K4, the ability of the
> factory to sell every unit they can ship for the next 18-24 months
> at a minimum, limited repair capacity, and cost or repair parts,
> Elecraft would be losing money with any rental operation.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 2021-02-03 3:31 PM, John Harper wrote:
> > Let's throw some numbers in, just for S:
> >
> > I pay $200 for 2 weeks of togetherness with a K4. Another $100 for 2-way
> > shipping.
> >
> > I'm out $300 if I decide not to keep the rig.
> >
> > No one's going to go for this unless they're already thinking seriously
> of
> > buying the thing. If they only like it marginally, they realize they now
> > have a $300 dud to send back or (more likely) they realize that they're
> > already 85 or 90% of the way (financially) toward ownership.
> >
> > And...Elecraft only has 10 K4's slotted for this program. They'll prolly
> > sell 8 or 9 of them and can continue to rent, or eventually sell as used
> > (at 90% retail) the remaining two. They're ahead either way.
> >
> > To top it off, they benefit from the social media buzz created by those
> 90%
> > who like, decide to keep and rave about the rig online. A few may even
> name
> > their firstborns Wayne and/or Eric. It's a win-win for all involved.
> >
> > Few people who use/own one are dissatisfied with an E rig. This would
> > potentially increase the number of people within that pool.
> >
> > John AE5X
> > https://ae5x.blogspot.com
> >
> >> The real problem with rental returns ("B Stock") is that is can
> >> no longer be sold as new resulting in a loss of value that is
> >> often more than the rental proceeds.
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Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

Your numbers are entirely unrealistic for for a $4000 transceiver.

The discount for a "used" (rental stock) device would need to be
*at least* 20-25% (typical of "B Stock" in the professional AV
world).  A two to four week rental would need to be *at least*
$500, if not more, to cover the overhead, management, repair and
refurbishment (with every rental) costs of such an endeavor.

Given the constrained availability of the K4, the ability of the
factory to sell every unit they can ship for the next 18-24 months
at a minimum, limited repair capacity, and cost or repair parts,
Elecraft would be losing money with any rental operation.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2021-02-03 3:31 PM, John Harper wrote:

Let's throw some numbers in, just for S:

I pay $200 for 2 weeks of togetherness with a K4. Another $100 for 2-way
shipping.

I'm out $300 if I decide not to keep the rig.

No one's going to go for this unless they're already thinking seriously of
buying the thing. If they only like it marginally, they realize they now
have a $300 dud to send back or (more likely) they realize that they're
already 85 or 90% of the way (financially) toward ownership.

And...Elecraft only has 10 K4's slotted for this program. They'll prolly
sell 8 or 9 of them and can continue to rent, or eventually sell as used
(at 90% retail) the remaining two. They're ahead either way.

To top it off, they benefit from the social media buzz created by those 90%
who like, decide to keep and rave about the rig online. A few may even name
their firstborns Wayne and/or Eric. It's a win-win for all involved.

Few people who use/own one are dissatisfied with an E rig. This would
potentially increase the number of people within that pool.

John AE5X
https://ae5x.blogspot.com


The real problem with rental returns ("B Stock") is that is can
no longer be sold as new resulting in a loss of value that is
often more than the rental proceeds.

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Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

[Dr. William J. Schmidt]

I have some experience on this topic because I rent out my Elecraft
equipment at my contest station in the Caribbean (J68HZ).  I have to treat
it strictly as a business investment. setting the price for rental at what I
would have to expect to replace all of the equipment every 5-10 years
depending upon what it is. and a little more for breakage in between.  Of
course its discounted by my usage as well, but I can tell you it isn't
exactly cheap.  However the program is well thought out and it can be done.
I can't do the remote station thing on St. Lucia because its not permitted
by their version of the FCC rules.

 

 

Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ 

email:    b...@wjschmidt.com

 

 



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Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

[Bill Frantz]

Sure sounds like the service Remote Ham Radio 
 is already offering with Flex 
equipment. I seem to remember there also a service that offers 
Elecraft equipment.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 2/3/21 at 2:20 PM, ab7e...@gmail.com (David Gilbert) wrote:

I suppose, given the purported remote capability of the K4 
using a free app (as opposed to a piece of dedicated hardware), 
somebody might be willing to offer remote access to a K4 in 
exchange for a modest fee.  In my opinion, if the K4 is as 
remotable as claimed then it should be mostly possible to 
evaluate it that way.   Even then I suspect that Elecraft 
wouldn't want the hassle of offering that ... maybe somebody 
else would.


---
Bill Frantz| Security is like Government  | Periwinkle
(408)348-7900  | services. The market doesn't | 150 
Rivermead Rd #235
www.pwpconsult.com | want to pay for them.| 
Peterborough, NH 03458


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Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

[Walter Underwood]

Seriously, this was my first thought. Set up a rig rental business that isn’t 
limited to Elecraft.
There is no reason that this has to be an Elecraft operation. A larger business 
might balance
sales profit vs rental profit and self-insure (think car leasing), but that 
isn’t necessary.

This would be like Hertz or Avis. Buy the rigs, rent them. Sell the used ones.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Feb 3, 2021, at 11:39 AM, Edward R Cole  wrote:
> 
> So one of you multi-millionaires might buy a dozen K4 and set up a rental 
> business.  Hmm?
> 
> Rent at month minimum period for 10% of value and have clause to recover any 
> damage.
> 
> They rent cars that way.  Of course they require the renter to have 
> full-coverage insurance.
> 
> So there is another business opportunity, selling insurance on ham radios.
> 
> Yes, of course, I am joking
> 
> 73, Ed - KL7UW
>  http://www.kl7uw.com
> Dubus-NA Business mail:
>  dubus...@gmail.com 
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Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

[Jim Brown]

On 2/3/2021 10:03 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

The real problem with rental returns ("B Stock") is that is can
no longer be sold as new resulting in a loss of value that is
often more than the rental proceeds.


Having worked in selling high value pro audio products, I can confirm 
that Joe is absolutely right. And Elecraft is a small company, has a 
backlog of orders that, thanks to their reputation, the effect of COVID 
on their workers, and their supply chain, they are taking much longer 
than expected to fulfill. Eric and Wayne are smart businessmen. Why 
would they do something that loses money?


73, JimK9YC


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Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

[Jim Borowski]

John AE5X, Really, a business model? Think about what you just said?Let me put 
in perspective, I has taken almost 2 years trying to get the K4 out the door. 
It will at least 2 years for them to com up with a business model. ;-) Jim 
K9TFSent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
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Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

[Edward R Cole]

So one of you multi-millionaires might buy a dozen K4 and set up a 
rental business.  Hmm?


Rent at month minimum period for 10% of value and have clause to 
recover any damage.


They rent cars that way.  Of course they require the renter to have 
full-coverage insurance.


So there is another business opportunity, selling insurance on ham radios.

Yes, of course, I am joking

73, Ed - KL7UW
  http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
  dubus...@gmail.com 


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Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

[Alan - G4GNX]

The deposit is usually to cover minor damage when an item is returned. 
It would have to be as high or higher than the cost to buy a new one, or 
the renter could be well out of pocket.


Most would-be renters would be unlikely to want to shell out $400+ as a 
deposit.


73,

Alan. G4GNX


-- Original Message --
From: "Eric Garner" 
To: "Elecraft list" 
Sent: 03/02/2021 17:44:43
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?


isn't that why most expensive things require a deposit to rent them?

Eric KI7LTT

On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 9:32 AM Alan - G4GNX  wrote:



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Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

[David Gilbert]

This makes very little sense to me.  I can't see there being any way 
Elecraft could justify the risk and hassle of renting out their 
equipment.  Ask yourself this ... do you think you could make money 
buying a K4 and then renting it to other random hams you don't know?  
Would you be willing to take that kind of risk?  Think of the time it 
would take on your part to administer it.


I suppose, given the purported remote capability of the K4 using a free 
app (as opposed to a piece of dedicated hardware), somebody might be 
willing to offer remote access to a K4 in exchange for a modest fee.  In 
my opinion, if the K4 is as remotable as claimed then it should be 
mostly possible to evaluate it that way.   Even then I suspect that 
Elecraft wouldn't want the hassle of offering that ... maybe somebody 
else would.


Dave   AB7E



On 2/3/2021 10:20 AM, John Harper wrote:

I wonder if this model would work?

Flex offers a refund for those who try one of their rigs and don't like it.
But a rental would pose less risk to the manufacturer.

There are (rumored) a small number of K4's in existence - the rest, of
course, are on hold. But regardless...even after full production has begun:

What if, before plunking down 4 kilodollars, I could rent the rig for two
weeks?

If I don't like it, I send it back to Elecraft and I'm only out the rental
fee and the cost to ship (renter pays shipping in both directions).

If I do like it, I keep the rig and pay the balance.

The rental fee would separate the serious potential buyers from those
simply wanting a two-week joyride. The question is, how much of a rental
fee would be acceptable for a company to offer such a business model?

John AE5X
https://ae5x.blogspot.com


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Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

[George Thornton]

I think Elecraft has enough on its hands with COVID 19 just getting these rigs 
designed, updated, built and shipped.  

I am not aware that any major manufacturer of HF amateur radio transceivers 
maintains an equipment rental program.

A rental program would be complex to administer.  You would have to deal with 
insurance, shipping concerns and complaints that inevitably are part of such a 
program.  Plus a legal team on hand to deal with problems that result from a 
rental experience gone bad.  The program would have significant staffing 
requirements.   I would think even if they were interested in offering this 
service, they have many more pressing concerns giving COVID 19.

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Eric Garner
Sent: Wednesday, February 3, 2021 9:45 AM
To: Elecraft list 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

isn't that why most expensive things require a deposit to rent them?

Eric KI7LTT

On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 9:32 AM Alan - G4GNX  wrote:

> I can't see that working.
>
> When a renter defaults and does a runner, Elecraft would have to 
> layout a lot in recovery fees and maybe even end up with a pile of 
> junk for their trouble.
>
> It might work in a very small country or if they had a physical 
> presence in all states.
>
> 73,
>
> Alan. G4GNX
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "John Harper" 
> To: "Elecraft list" 
> Sent: 03/02/2021 17:20:47
> Subject: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?
>
> >I wonder if this model would work?
> >
> >Flex offers a refund for those who try one of their rigs and don't 
> >like
> it.
> >But a rental would pose less risk to the manufacturer.
> >
> >There are (rumored) a small number of K4's in existence - the rest, 
> >of course, are on hold. But regardless...even after full production 
> >has
> begun:
> >
> >What if, before plunking down 4 kilodollars, I could rent the rig for 
> >two weeks?
> >
> >If I don't like it, I send it back to Elecraft and I'm only out the 
> >rental fee and the cost to ship (renter pays shipping in both directions).
> >
> >If I do like it, I keep the rig and pay the balance.
> >
> >The rental fee would separate the serious potential buyers from those 
> >simply wanting a two-week joyride. The question is, how much of a 
> >rental fee would be acceptable for a company to offer such a business model?
> >
> >John AE5X
> >https://ae5x.blogspot.com
> >
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

[Grant Youngman]

Elecraft already has a reasonable return policy.  It’s on the website.  30 days 
and a 10% restock fee (which may be more if you’ve bunged it up), since they’d 
most likely at least have to clean off your fingerprints and lord knows what 
else, refurbish and then resell it at a discount.  And if you’ve run over it 
with a truck, dropped it in a river, or treated it to a dose of hamification, 
you’ll get your junked radio back instead of a refund.  PS — it doesn’t apply 
to kits that have been partially or entirely built.

If you buy one and don’t like it, it should be pretty easy to find potential 
buyers willing to throw money in your direction … 

Grant NQ5T

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Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

[Mark Goldberg]

I can't see this as being a good business model. A company has finite
resources. If they spend time and money on a rental business, they
can't spend time and money on their core business. I'd much rather see
Elecraft build and ship as many K4s as possible than spend time and
money on a rental business. Add to that the possible fraud (rent with
a stolen credit card and abscond with the K4) and the need to fully
check out the unit after rental (people buy things on ebay, claim they
are broken and return a different, damaged item for a refund) they
would have to charge an exorbitant amount to not lose money.

If you really wanted to try one out, you could buy it, use it for a
while and then offer it for sale to someone else. With the K4 in such
demand, you may even be able to get more than list price for a gently
used one that can be purchased today.

73,

Mark
W7MLG

On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 10:46 AM Eric Garner  wrote:
>
> isn't that why most expensive things require a deposit to rent them?
>
> Eric KI7LTT
>
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 9:32 AM Alan - G4GNX  wrote:
>
> > I can't see that working.
> >
> > When a renter defaults and does a runner, Elecraft would have to layout
> > a lot in recovery fees and maybe even end up with a pile of junk for
> > their trouble.
> >
> > It might work in a very small country or if they had a physical presence
> > in all states.
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Alan. G4GNX
> >
> >
> > -- Original Message --
> > From: "John Harper" 
> > To: "Elecraft list" 
> > Sent: 03/02/2021 17:20:47
> > Subject: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?
> >
> > >I wonder if this model would work?
> > >
> > >Flex offers a refund for those who try one of their rigs and don't like
> > it.
> > >But a rental would pose less risk to the manufacturer.
> > >
> > >There are (rumored) a small number of K4's in existence - the rest, of
> > >course, are on hold. But regardless...even after full production has
> > begun:
> > >
> > >What if, before plunking down 4 kilodollars, I could rent the rig for two
> > >weeks?
> > >
> > >If I don't like it, I send it back to Elecraft and I'm only out the rental
> > >fee and the cost to ship (renter pays shipping in both directions).
> > >
> > >If I do like it, I keep the rig and pay the balance.
> > >
> > >The rental fee would separate the serious potential buyers from those
> > >simply wanting a two-week joyride. The question is, how much of a rental
> > >fee would be acceptable for a company to offer such a business model?
> > >
> > >John AE5X
> > >https://ae5x.blogspot.com
> > >
> >
> > __
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
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> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to garn...@gmail.com
> >
>
>
> --
> --Eric
> _
> Eric Garner
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Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

No, the deposit is typically for damage and/or late charges.
Deposits are generally nowhere near to the replacement cost
of expensive equipment.

The real problem with rental returns ("B Stock") is that is can
no longer be sold as new resulting in a loss of value that is
often more than the rental proceeds.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2021-02-03 12:44 PM, Eric Garner wrote:

isn't that why most expensive things require a deposit to rent them?

Eric KI7LTT

On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 9:32 AM Alan - G4GNX  wrote:


I can't see that working.

When a renter defaults and does a runner, Elecraft would have to layout
a lot in recovery fees and maybe even end up with a pile of junk for
their trouble.

It might work in a very small country or if they had a physical presence
in all states.

73,

Alan. G4GNX


-- Original Message --
From: "John Harper" 
To: "Elecraft list" 
Sent: 03/02/2021 17:20:47
Subject: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?


I wonder if this model would work?

Flex offers a refund for those who try one of their rigs and don't like

it.

But a rental would pose less risk to the manufacturer.

There are (rumored) a small number of K4's in existence - the rest, of
course, are on hold. But regardless...even after full production has

begun:


What if, before plunking down 4 kilodollars, I could rent the rig for two
weeks?

If I don't like it, I send it back to Elecraft and I'm only out the rental
fee and the cost to ship (renter pays shipping in both directions).

If I do like it, I keep the rig and pay the balance.

The rental fee would separate the serious potential buyers from those
simply wanting a two-week joyride. The question is, how much of a rental
fee would be acceptable for a company to offer such a business model?

John AE5X
https://ae5x.blogspot.com



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Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

[Henry Pollock - K4TMC]

John,

I like the idea!  It would be great to rent a K4 for a few weeks to see if
I want to replace my trusty K3+.

Better yet, it would be nice to get a K4 and K4HD at the same time!!

73,
Henry - K4TMC


On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 12:22 PM John Harper  wrote:

> I wonder if this model would work?
>
> Flex offers a refund for those who try one of their rigs and don't like it.
> But a rental would pose less risk to the manufacturer.
>
> There are (rumored) a small number of K4's in existence - the rest, of
> course, are on hold. But regardless...even after full production has begun:
>
> What if, before plunking down 4 kilodollars, I could rent the rig for two
> weeks?
>
> If I don't like it, I send it back to Elecraft and I'm only out the rental
> fee and the cost to ship (renter pays shipping in both directions).
>
> If I do like it, I keep the rig and pay the balance.
>
> The rental fee would separate the serious potential buyers from those
> simply wanting a two-week joyride. The question is, how much of a rental
> fee would be acceptable for a company to offer such a business model?
>
> John AE5X
> https://ae5x.blogspot.com
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

[Eric Garner]

isn't that why most expensive things require a deposit to rent them?

Eric KI7LTT

On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 9:32 AM Alan - G4GNX  wrote:

> I can't see that working.
>
> When a renter defaults and does a runner, Elecraft would have to layout
> a lot in recovery fees and maybe even end up with a pile of junk for
> their trouble.
>
> It might work in a very small country or if they had a physical presence
> in all states.
>
> 73,
>
> Alan. G4GNX
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "John Harper" 
> To: "Elecraft list" 
> Sent: 03/02/2021 17:20:47
> Subject: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?
>
> >I wonder if this model would work?
> >
> >Flex offers a refund for those who try one of their rigs and don't like
> it.
> >But a rental would pose less risk to the manufacturer.
> >
> >There are (rumored) a small number of K4's in existence - the rest, of
> >course, are on hold. But regardless...even after full production has
> begun:
> >
> >What if, before plunking down 4 kilodollars, I could rent the rig for two
> >weeks?
> >
> >If I don't like it, I send it back to Elecraft and I'm only out the rental
> >fee and the cost to ship (renter pays shipping in both directions).
> >
> >If I do like it, I keep the rig and pay the balance.
> >
> >The rental fee would separate the serious potential buyers from those
> >simply wanting a two-week joyride. The question is, how much of a rental
> >fee would be acceptable for a company to offer such a business model?
> >
> >John AE5X
> >https://ae5x.blogspot.com
> >
>
> __
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-- 
--Eric
_
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Re: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?

[Alan - G4GNX]

I can't see that working.

When a renter defaults and does a runner, Elecraft would have to layout 
a lot in recovery fees and maybe even end up with a pile of junk for 
their trouble.


It might work in a very small country or if they had a physical presence 
in all states.


73,

Alan. G4GNX


-- Original Message --
From: "John Harper" 
To: "Elecraft list" 
Sent: 03/02/2021 17:20:47
Subject: [Elecraft] Can I rent a K4?


I wonder if this model would work?

Flex offers a refund for those who try one of their rigs and don't like it.
But a rental would pose less risk to the manufacturer.

There are (rumored) a small number of K4's in existence - the rest, of
course, are on hold. But regardless...even after full production has begun:

What if, before plunking down 4 kilodollars, I could rent the rig for two
weeks?

If I don't like it, I send it back to Elecraft and I'm only out the rental
fee and the cost to ship (renter pays shipping in both directions).

If I do like it, I keep the rig and pay the balance.

The rental fee would separate the serious potential buyers from those
simply wanting a two-week joyride. The question is, how much of a rental
fee would be acceptable for a company to offer such a business model?

John AE5X
https://ae5x.blogspot.com



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Re: [Elecraft] Was the Jan 22 K4 demo recorded?

[Bill Frantz]

I believe it was. I seem to remember seeing the record light on in the Zoom 
window.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 1/23/21 at 10:36 AM, thedusty...@imaginarian.org (Rich NE1EE) wrote:

> 
> ~R~
> 72/73 de Rich NE1EE
> The Dusty Key
> On the banks of the Piscataqua

---
Bill Frantz| Truth and love must prevail  | Periwinkle
(408)348-7900  | over lies and hate.  | 150 Rivermead Rd #235
www.pwpconsult.com |   - Vaclav Havel | Peterborough, NH 03458

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Re: [Elecraft] "Introduction to the Elecraft K4" manual now available

[Roy]

Excellent! I'm looking forward to generating many new synapses!

Roy,   K6XK

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Re: [Elecraft] "Introduction to the Elecraft K4" manual now available

[Lou W0FK]

My computer monitor has finger smudges on it now

Lou, W0FK



--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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Re: [Elecraft] "Introduction to the Elecraft K4" manual now available

[Buck]

First glance, it is really well done.  I love the yellow arrows and hate 
it when a manual says push the X button but you have no idea where the X 
button is.


Buck, k4ia
Honor Roll
8BDXCC
EasyWayHamBooks.com

On 9/24/2020 1:49 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

The first draft of "Introduction to the Elecraft K4" is now available, at:

   
https://ftp.elecraft.com/K4/Manuals%20Downloads/Introduction%20to%20the%20Elecraft%20K4,%20rev.%20A-7.pdf

This is a 40-page, full-color manual with dozens of illustrations highlighting the 
K4's user interface and features. The document's 8.5 x 14" form factor is 
uniquely suited to the K4, allowing illustrations to be virtually the same size as 
the front panel. A printed, spiral-bound copy of this manual will be included with 
the K4.

I'd like to thank those who volunteered to review this and other K4 
documentation, including our intrepid field testers. Additional input is always 
welcome. We'll be updating these documents as K4 software evolves.

73,
Wayne
N6KR





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Re: [Elecraft] "Introduction to the Elecraft K4" manual now available

[Tom Azlin W7SUA]

Very nice intro, thanks! de tom w7sua

On 9/24/2020 10:49 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

The first draft of "Introduction to the Elecraft K4" is now available, at:

   
https://ftp.elecraft.com/K4/Manuals%20Downloads/Introduction%20to%20the%20Elecraft%20K4,%20rev.%20A-7.pdf

This is a 40-page, full-color manual with dozens of illustrations highlighting the 
K4's user interface and features. The document's 8.5 x 14" form factor is 
uniquely suited to the K4, allowing illustrations to be virtually the same size as 
the front panel. A printed, spiral-bound copy of this manual will be included with 
the K4.

I'd like to thank those who volunteered to review this and other K4 
documentation, including our intrepid field testers. Additional input is always 
welcome. We'll be updating these documents as K4 software evolves.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

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Re: [Elecraft] Subject: Re: KPA1500 with K4 tracks VFOs with 1 kHz resolution

[Wayne Burdick]

Strictly firmware, Ed.

73,
Wayne
N6KR



> On Jul 23, 2020, at 1:33 PM, Ed G  wrote:
> 
> Hi Wayne,
> Will the future new KPA500 and KAT500 Auxbus protocol involve new 
> hardware interface revisions, or would this just be a firmware update?  I’m 
> thinking if hardware, it is perhaps best to wait just a bit for the amp and 
> tuner to be upgraded before buying?
> --Ed, N3CW—
> 
> 
> 
> --
> On Sun, Jul 19, 2020, at 1:52 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>>> Those using a K4 transceiver with our KPA1500 amp will have the 
>>> advantage of +/- 1 kHz resolution in VFO tracking. In many stations, 
>>> this finer resolution will result in lower SWR and improved amplifier 
>>> performance, especially on the lower bands. (The original resolution 
>>> was +/- 8 kHz.)
>>> 
>>> This is part an overall upgrade of our Auxbus control interface, taking 
>>> advantage of the additional processing resources available in the K4. 
>>> The revised protocol allows for more robust RFI rejection, as well as 
>>> future enhancements to amp/tuner control. 
>>> 
>>> At present only the KPA1500 supports radio type K4, but we hope to add 
>>> this capability to the KPA500 and KAT500 in the near future.
>>> 
>>> All amps and tuners will continue to support the original Auxbus 
>>> protocol, remaining 100% compatible with our existing transceivers.
>>> 
>>> 73,
>>> Wayne
>>> N6KR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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Re: [Elecraft] Possible option for the K4?

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

He never heard the gunshot.

73

Bob, K4TAX


On 5/19/2019 8:50 AM, Joe wrote:

May I suggest the K4-Spousal-01 option for the K-4?

For an additional charge a $250 gift certificate would be included in 
the shipping box. The gift certificate would be made out to the 
spouse's name.  This gift certificate would be good at any retail store.


Upon receipt of the shipment, the owner would open the box in front of 
the spouse.  The gift certificate would be handed to the spouse.  If 
there is any conflict in the order, the spouse would be told that the 
radio would be returned, but would have to include the gift 
certificate in the return order.


Your thoughts?

73, Joe, K1ike
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Re: [Elecraft] Touch screens for a K4?

[Drew AF2Z]

I guess I'm one of the touchscreen "negatories" but, yes, I have used a 
cellphone in the last 15 years. I've even used the Morse keyer app as a 
text input device, swiping between the dit and dah pads on the screen. 
Some things never get old...


I just hope touchscreen input is used sparingly on a K4; namely, only 
where it offers an operational advantage.


73,
Drew
AF2Z





On 05/05/19 18:43, Dr. William J. Schmidt wrote:

"The "jury" seems split on touch-screen or manual controls.  I suggest this
as a compromise".

  


Not that I'm a fan either. but one wonders how the staunch touch-screen
negatories cope with ever changing real world  like semi-modern (last 15
year+) cell phones (voting booths, car GPS interfaces, etc). or are we still
using the ever popular Motorola bag phones?

  

  




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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Nicklas Johnson]

So basically a K3S :-D

The only thing I think it might be nice to see is a way for ALE (ie,
HFlink) to work/scan totally silently, which I guess would mean totally
diode-switched filters and a mode where the ATU could automatically be
bypassed during receive and enabled during transmit?  (the latter could
sort of be achieved today with the software sending the right commands of
course)

Cosmetically, the unit's display is starting to look & feel a little clunky
by 2019 standards, but this is such a minor thing.

But honestly the K3S has left me wanting for so little that it's somewhat
difficult for me to imagine altogether very many ways to improve it, though
I've only been operating with it about a year.

   Nick


On Fri, 3 May 2019 at 17:01, Robert G Strickland via Elecraft <
elecraft@mailman.qth.net> wrote:

> Keep it modular.
> Keep the "basic unit" simple.
> Focus on performance, not bells and whistles.
> Keep the UI simple and direct, functional, not "cute."
> Remember that there's no "forever upward;" asymptotes do exist.
> Investigate how the price can be brought down [if at all] without
> sacrificing performance or company financial stability.
> Remember that while the K3'etc is a great radio, the company behind the
> radio is as great as the technical stuff. Nourish the company.
> Thanks for asking!
>
> ...robert
>
> > On 3/24/2019 5:14 PM, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:
> >> Inquiring minds want to know:
> >> What would you all like to see as a ???K4??? ?
> >>
> >> Eric
> >> elecraft.com
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-- 
*N6OL*
Saying something doesn't make it true.  Belief in something doesn't make it
real. And if you have to lie to support a position, that position is not
worth supporting.
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Robert G Strickland via Elecraft]

Keep it modular.
Keep the "basic unit" simple.
Focus on performance, not bells and whistles.
Keep the UI simple and direct, functional, not "cute."
Remember that there's no "forever upward;" asymptotes do exist.
Investigate how the price can be brought down [if at all] without 
sacrificing performance or company financial stability.
Remember that while the K3'etc is a great radio, the company behind the 
radio is as great as the technical stuff. Nourish the company.

Thanks for asking!

...robert


On 3/24/2019 5:14 PM, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:

Inquiring minds want to know:
What would you all like to see as a ???K4??? ?

Eric
elecraft.com

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Robert G Strickland, PhD ABPH - KE2WY
rc...@verizon.net.usa
Syracuse, New York, USA
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Tom Azlin W7SUA]

Phase lock the synthesizer to the external 10 MHz reference.

73, tom w7sua

On 3/24/2019 5:14 PM, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:

Inquiring minds want to know:
What would you all like to see as a “K4” ?

Eric
elecraft.com

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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Bill]

Bingo!!!  I used a Genovation for K3 control (placing the keypad beside 
me at the edge of my desk). Worked great - until the keypad quit. I 
reverted back to using HRD.


Then I got an IC-7300 with the touch screen and a stylus.  Moved the 
radio out on the desk so I can reach it easily (and lost desktop space). 
Good radio with lots of modern features and personalization choices. 
Then I reverted back using HRD (remember the lost desktop space?).


HRD can be somewhat customized as to what controls are on screen, but it 
is a one size fits all system. Hence, with the limited rig related 
customization it offers, it is not the end all rig control system - too 
much attention has been paid to digital, rotors, DXing, logging, etc.  
Not enough time spent on rig control.


Maybe I am the only person in the world solely interested in rig control 
software?


All that said, the idea of a full featured tablet-like remote control I 
can hold in my lap would just be GREAT!!! I just have to live long 
enough to see this happen.


Life is good at my shack - the snow is going away!

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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Gary Smith]

A thought on touch screens.

I love them on my cell phone for the most 
part, very easy to use and all in the palm 
of my hand. Clever technology that is very 
freeing.

As to them on the radio, I have a 
different take; I'm getting old and I'm 
finding years after some accidents, two 
years on crutches when young, martial arts 
back when it was realistic, and activity 
generated arthritis in my shoulder has 
made it more uncomfortable to keep my arm 
extended with my wrist in an up position. 
I even find myself hurting after playing 
guitar for a couple hours, never 
experienced that till as of late. 

I fear using a touch screen would become 
uncomfortable after not too much active 
use. Perhaps if there were a remote tablet 
that could be on the desk instead of the 
touch screen on the radio, that might be 
more comfortable.

73,

Gary
KA1J

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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Robert G Strickland via Elecraft]

Some thoughts on the K4...

Make/keep it modular. Start with a basic radio that provides an 
excellent electronic foundation for whatever builds on top of it. The 
model in this respect is the initial K3. This allows for flexibility in 
configuring a radio that can accommodate the different 
needs/desires/budgets in the ham community. It also provides for a 
manageable initial price with the cost of future "expansions" spread out 
over time.


By the way, "upgrade" makes the basic radio sound as if it's a dummied 
down version that needs more expensive stuff to make it worth while. 
"Extensions" sounds like what it is without short-sheeting the basic unit.


Resist the call to include every ham shack wire and gadget in the basic 
radio. Doing so compromises the "modular" criteria and ends up with an 
"all things for all people" radio that tends to satisfy hardly anyone. 
Not to mention cost of production and repair and the operating 
complexity that many hams will reject. Concerning this last point, 
remember all those who complain about the complexity of stacked menus.


Personally, I would not include touch screens. A touch screen for radio 
control seem to me to be an individual interest/appreciation that does 
not, by its self, increase radio usability and capability. Just because 
a technology can be applied to a given function does not mean that doing 
so will enhance that function. Of course, marketing issues can influence 
this decision. But note that contest stations, DX-peditions, and 
discerning operators do not seem to be put off by the simple, almost 
rudimentary UI of the K3-S. I would think that capability, extendability 
and packaging are the major selling points, not bells, whistles and 
cosmetics.


All that said, I'm confident that the Elecraft team will do the right 
thing, both for the health of the company and the enjoyment of the 
amateur radio community.


...robert



On 3/25/2019 12:25, Gordon LaPoint wrote:

I would love an SDR (I have an ANAN-10e) with a front panel and the
software for the computer, best of both worlds.  I have an Apache Labs
ANAN-7000 DLE Mk2 (without computer) on order, but would love to replace
that with the K4, that is full SDR with dual ADC's like the ANAN-7000.

I have a K2(10Watt) and a K3 (updated, but not USB module), KPA/KAP 500
combo and will keep all of the Elecraft equipment.

I love the bandscope that I can click on with the mouse and tune the
radio to a signal, the K4 needs a band scope on the computer screen when
used with a computer!

PureSignal on TX is now a must, get ahead of everyone, except the Apache
Labs radios.

Better noise reduction, (even the ANAN-10e has better)

CW as good as the K3, or better.

That is a good start, lets see what others come up with.

Gordon - N1MGO  (long time K3 user)

On 3/24/19 8:14 PM, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:

Inquiring minds want to know:
What would you all like to see as a “K4” ?

Eric
elecraft.com

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Robert G Strickland, PhD ABPH - KE2WY
rc...@verizon.net.usa
Syracuse, New York, USA
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Hi Peter,

No problem.

We certainly love the input, but this volume of email quickly saturates a large 
number of our readers, so we try to keep it under control.


Of course, direct emails with suggestions to both of us are always welcome! :-)

73,
Eric
/elecraft.com/

On 3/26/2019 6:34 AM, Peter Hall wrote:

Eric,

I apologise for missing that mail but am amazed you'd want to shut down the 
discussion. But it's your sandpit!

Cheers,
Peter

Sent from my iPad



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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Wayne Burdick]

> On Mar 25, 2019, at 1:15 PM, Charlie T  wrote:
> 
> Is this some sort of covert program to cut-off or, at the very least, slow 
> down the current K3s sales as more potential buyers are convinced to change 
> their minds and decide to wait for the K4 ?


Most definitely not! People are just offering suggestions, which are welcome at 
any time.


> Personally, at around six large for a loaded K3s, there's NO way I'm gonna 
> spend anywhere near twice that on a K4 radio regardless of WHAT it'll do.

Neither would I :)

Wayne
N6KR


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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Charlie T]

Is this some sort of covert program to cut-off or, at the very least, slow down 
the current K3s sales as more potential buyers are convinced to change their 
minds and decide to wait for the K4 ?

Because it certainly SEEMS to me to be doing just that!

Personally, at around six large for a loaded K3s, there's NO way I'm gonna 
spend anywhere near twice that on a K4 radio regardless of WHAT it'll do.

73, Charlie k3ICH




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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Peter Hall]

Eric,

I apologise for missing that mail but am amazed you'd want to shut down the 
discussion. But it's your sandpit!

Cheers,
Peter

Sent from my iPad

> On 26 Mar 2019, at 10:32 pm, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft 
>  wrote:
> 
> Folks - we closed this “Will there be a K4” thread yesterday.  In the 
> interest of relieving reader email overload from the large number of email 
> postings, let's let it rest for now.
> 
> 73, 
> Eric
> Mooderator
> elecraft.com
> _..._
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Folks - we closed this “Will there be a K4” thread yesterday.  In the interest 
of relieving reader email overload from the large number of email postings, 
let's let it rest for now.

73, 
Eric
Mooderator
elecraft.com
_..._

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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4?

[Dave G3WGN M6O]

Nice list Ted.
I agree with all except a variation on numbers 4 and 6: I'm happy to have an
external computer for contest and everyday logging and for functionality
equivalent to K3 Utility. All else (digital modes, remote operation etc)
should be on-board.
73, David G3WGN M6O WJ6O
K2, KX3, K3, P3, W2...



Edward A. Dauer wrote
> Wow; there's a tantalizing post.
> 
> I'll leave the important technical suggestions to others.  Here's my list:
> 
> 1.  Seamless backwards compatibility with the KPA1500.  Without it, I
> don't buy a K4.  Likewise, though much less important, for the K-Pod.
> 
> 2.  Similar though not necessarily identical form factor to the K3 / K3s. 
> Existing investments in shack design have been built around the current
> equipment.
> 
> 3.  Built-in remoting.  Get rid of the RemoteRig dongles.
> 
> 4.  Whatever it takes, so far as possible, to make connecting any outboard
> computer to the rig unnecessary for any reason.
> 
> 5.  Upgrading from K3 to K4, as we had for upgrading from K3 to nearly
> K3s, would be nice but I wouldn't let it stand in the way of major design
> changes.
> 
> 6.  One tiny matter the absence of which has always just bugged me -- an
> internal contest QSO S/N counter for the internal memory CW keyer.
> 
> 7.  On-board panadapter.  Touch-sensitive screen is not all that
> desirable.  I much prefer soft keys.  Keeps the PBJ off the screen.
> 
> 8.  A kit version, as much as feasible.
> 
> 
> Ted, KN1CBR
> 
> 
>_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 
> 
>  From: 

> elecraft-bounces@.qth

>  

> elecraft-bounces@.qth

>  On Behalf Of Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft
> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 7:15 PM
> To: Elecraft list 

> Elecraft@.qth

> 
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4
> 
> Inquiring minds want to know: 
> What would you all like to see as a ?K4? ? 
> 
> Eric
> elecraft.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Larry Libsch]

Hi Eric,

         I own an early K3, early KAT500, early KPA500, and early
KPA1500. Each a great product with great documentation and customer
support. I now also own a  FLEX 6600. SDR is the future of radio. The P3
just is not state of the art, and it's poor value for its cost. Its
shortcomings are numerous and known. The Flex has DAX which vastly
decreases the complexity of connectivity and keeps ports organized. The
Flex panafall display puts most controls at your finger tips rather than
buried in menus. The Flex exploits other SDR capabilities: Multiple
bands can be displayed simultaneously. A single Flex can do SO2R. But
the Flex has many shortcomings compared to the K-line: Poor and
frequently outdated documentation. Marginal customer service. Features
like remote capability, integration with non-Flex software, and SO2R may
be more difficult to implement than their ads would lead you to believe.
Those lacking networking skills may be at a disadvantage.

         A great SDR radio with Flex- like capabilities in connectivity
and panafall display and function that also has Elecraft quality
documentation and customer support would move Elecraft back to
leadership in HF radios.

         I have not been able to part with my K3. We have too much
history. But I now operate with my Flex driving the KPA1500. I'd dump
the Flex  in a heartbeat if a K4 could match or beat Flex functions and
maintain Elecraft's current level of documentation and customer service.

  K4KGG, Larry

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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Jim Brown]

On 3/24/2019 4:39 PM, John Stengrevics wrote:

Cardinal rule of business:  New products, new products, new products.


Also a great way to go out of biz, getting rolled over by much bigger 
companies with much higher volume. Wayne and Eric know their place in 
the ham market -- indeed, they have defined it!


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4?

[Richards]

RIGHT ON, Mr. Wayne  !! Good answer.

K8JHR



On 3/25/2019 9:33 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
Of course. But we’re not going to tell everyone about our secret 
fishing spots.


This particular pond just happens to be in a very public place. One 
where we get nibbles on every cast.


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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[rich hurd WC3T]

Selfishly, that’s why I continued to study for the Extea Class.

Then I went and really blew it by becoming a MARS operator.   ;)

On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 23:10 Byron Servies  wrote:

> I am that ham. Once or twice a year, in the heat of the chase and
> spinning the dial, I blow it, and hate myself for months after.
>
> The real solution is for me to finally bother to study for and pass
> Extra, but still, that would be a tremendous feature for other fools
> like me.
>
> 73, Byron N6NUL
>
> On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 7:13 PM Wayne Burdick  wrote:
> >
> >
> > > On Mar 25, 2019, at 12:50 PM, Gary Peterson  wrote:
> > >
> > > In the past few years, I have thought of a couple of desirable
> features that should be fairly easy to implement in a modern transceiver
> ... being able to program “transmit enable” for the amateur bands with
> one’s license/frequency/mode privileges.  This would prevent someone with a
> general class license from transmitting LSB below 7178 or CW below 7025 in
> the 40 meter band.  After the general class licensee upgrades to extra
> class, the radio would prevent them from transmitting LSB, below 7128, for
> example.  Many times, I have heard amateurs accidentally transmitting
> outside their allocated sub-bands, in the “heat of the moment,” while
> chasing DX.
> >
> >
> > SMOP, just added to my personal wish-list. Thanks.
> >
> > Wayne
> > N6KR
> >
> >
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> --
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Rich Hurd / WC3T / DMR: 3142737
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Byron Servies]

I am that ham. Once or twice a year, in the heat of the chase and
spinning the dial, I blow it, and hate myself for months after.

The real solution is for me to finally bother to study for and pass
Extra, but still, that would be a tremendous feature for other fools
like me.

73, Byron N6NUL

On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 7:13 PM Wayne Burdick  wrote:
>
>
> > On Mar 25, 2019, at 12:50 PM, Gary Peterson  wrote:
> >
> > In the past few years, I have thought of a couple of desirable features 
> > that should be fairly easy to implement in a modern transceiver ... being 
> > able to program “transmit enable” for the amateur bands with one’s 
> > license/frequency/mode privileges.  This would prevent someone with a 
> > general class license from transmitting LSB below 7178 or CW below 7025 in 
> > the 40 meter band.  After the general class licensee upgrades to extra 
> > class, the radio would prevent them from transmitting LSB, below 7128, for 
> > example.  Many times, I have heard amateurs accidentally transmitting 
> > outside their allocated sub-bands, in the “heat of the moment,” while 
> > chasing DX.
>
>
> SMOP, just added to my personal wish-list. Thanks.
>
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
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-- 
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the Cal QSO Party 5-6 Oct 2019
- www.cqp.org
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4?

[Kenneth P Alexander]

Repeat customers and customer loyalty are the foundations of any successful
business.  Their word of mouth recommendations are pure gold to any
manufacturer, so engaging them in these discussions costs little and pays
big dividends.

>From what I have read, many of the wish list items are features already
found on rigs from other manufacturers, so some of those bases are being
covered.

That said, polling non-owners is always worthwhile...maybe at hamfests if
you can keep the syncophants from crowding the table.

What would I like to see?  A K3s or a K4 are well beyond my means.  I'd
like an improved KX3:
1.  Dedicated audio inputs/outputs for digital modes.  Built in sound card.
2.  An ethernet port for easy internet remote control, including a way to
turn the the transceiver on and off, plus remote access to every other
function (I say this not knowing whether that's possible already now)
3.  A method of setting digital mode audio levels that doesn't leave the
operator wondering why the meters aren't working.
4.  Move further away from the mindset that your customers are hikers and
backpackers.  You serve them very well already.

If my theoretical KX3s grew to the size of a K2 that would not bother me.

73,

Ken Alexander (still VE3HLS)
So Phisai, Thailand
Blog:  bueng-ken.com

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 08:08 Richards  wrote:

> Mr. Eric,  perhaps you are fishing in the wrong pond ...
>
> To coin a phrase:   Ask not why some hams buy your radios - ask why all
> the others do not.
>
> Asking members of this group who are pleased with your products is
> misplaced.   Instead, you should poll those who recently purchased, or
> who contemplate purchasing, competing products. More hams purchase
> competing products than buy Elecraft gear,  so you should ask THEM
> why.   Disregard sycophantic owners who claim you make the only rig
> worth owning (even if that is true!) Disregard those who claim other
> manufacturers have lost touch with their customers, because that is
> simply not true.  Many well informed, qualified hams buy other brands
> for good reasons.   In any case, you should determine what induced them
> to eschew your products for theirs. Contrary to popular belief,  owning
> Brand X is not a sign of insanity!Contest guru K3LR has brand X
> radios in his big contest shack.  World famous Rob Sherwood NC0B has
> four of the latest Brand X radios and the latest Brand Y radio on his
> desk.   And they are pretty smart guys.   To increase market share, you
> must produce products that appeal to more buyers with money to spend.
> (I learned this is Business 101.)   ;-)
>
> That is just MY take ... you make the call. K8JHR
>
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>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Wayne Burdick]

> On Mar 25, 2019, at 12:50 PM, Gary Peterson  wrote:
> 
> In the past few years, I have thought of a couple of desirable features that 
> should be fairly easy to implement in a modern transceiver ... being able to 
> program “transmit enable” for the amateur bands with one’s 
> license/frequency/mode privileges.  This would prevent someone with a general 
> class license from transmitting LSB below 7178 or CW below 7025 in the 40 
> meter band.  After the general class licensee upgrades to extra class, the 
> radio would prevent them from transmitting LSB, below 7128, for example.  
> Many times, I have heard amateurs accidentally transmitting outside their 
> allocated sub-bands, in the “heat of the moment,” while chasing DX.


SMOP, just added to my personal wish-list. Thanks.

Wayne
N6KR


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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Wayne Burdick]

Me either.

Wayne

> On Mar 25, 2019, at 7:02 PM, Doug Person  wrote:
> 
> If the FT8 program is running on a separate "loosely coupled" computer that 
> is internal, I don't see a problem.
> 
> Doug --KJ0F



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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Doug Person]

If the FT8 program is running on a separate "loosely coupled" computer 
that is internal, I don't see a problem.


Doug --KJ0F

On 3/25/2019 3:59 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
Ummm ... I think there are two issues here: The algorithms, coding, 
and modulation schemes for transmitting and receiving what has come to 
be known as FT8, and separately, the source code to implement all of 
that.  The second is subject to the terms of the GPL V3 license, the 
first would not seem to be.  So, all Elecraft would have to do is 
re-invent the WSPR-X FT8 their own proprietary way for whatever 
processor they use.  Just a few lines of code, should take about a 
week. :-)


73,
Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 3/25/2019 12:38 PM, Doug Person wrote:
Even if it's just an application installed into an integrated 
computer? This would not be folding the source into other code. It's 
just installing it into a computer that happens to be inside another 
device. It wouldn't be firmware. It would be the same as when I run 
it on my Raspberry Pi.


Doug --KJ0F

On 3/25/2019 12:01 PM, Neil Zampella wrote:
FWIW .. the FT8 code is not 'open source' it is under the General 
Public

License v3.   According to the GPL v3 FAQ:

"You cannot incorporate GPL-covered software in a proprietary system.
The goal of the GPL is to grant everyone the freedom to copy,
redistribute, understand, and modify a program. If you could 
incorporate

GPL-covered software into a nonfree system, it would have the effect of
making the GPL-covered software nonfree too."

So in reality, unless the firmware is then made available under the GPL
v3, which I don't see Elecraft doing, you can't use FT8 in the 
firmware.


Neil, KN3iLZ



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--
73 de Doug -- KJ0F

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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4?

[Kevin der Kinderen]

(I learned this is Business 101.)   ;-)

Let us know how you do in Business 102.



[kidding, couldn't resist]

73,
Kev K4VD

On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 9:08 PM Richards  wrote:

> Mr. Eric,  perhaps you are fishing in the wrong pond ...
>
> To coin a phrase:   Ask not why some hams buy your radios - ask why all
> the others do not.
>
> Asking members of this group who are pleased with your products is
> misplaced.   Instead, you should poll those who recently purchased, or
> who contemplate purchasing, competing products. More hams purchase
> competing products than buy Elecraft gear,  so you should ask THEM
> why.   Disregard sycophantic owners who claim you make the only rig
> worth owning (even if that is true!) Disregard those who claim other
> manufacturers have lost touch with their customers, because that is
> simply not true.  Many well informed, qualified hams buy other brands
> for good reasons.   In any case, you should determine what induced them
> to eschew your products for theirs. Contrary to popular belief,  owning
> Brand X is not a sign of insanity!Contest guru K3LR has brand X
> radios in his big contest shack.  World famous Rob Sherwood NC0B has
> four of the latest Brand X radios and the latest Brand Y radio on his
> desk.   And they are pretty smart guys.   To increase market share, you
> must produce products that appeal to more buyers with money to spend.
> (I learned this is Business 101.)   ;-)
>
> That is just MY take ... you make the call. K8JHR
>
> _
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4?

[Wayne Burdick]

Of course. But we’re not going to tell everyone about our secret fishing spots. 

This particular pond just happens to be in a very public place. One where we 
get nibbles on every cast. 

73,
Wayne
N6KR


elecraft.com

> On Mar 25, 2019, at 6:07 PM, Richards  wrote:
> 
> Mr. Eric,  perhaps you are fishing in the wrong pond ...
> 
> To coin a phrase:   Ask not why some hams buy your radios - ask why all the 
> others do not.
> 
> Asking members of this group who are pleased with your products is misplaced. 
>   Instead, you should poll those who recently purchased, or who contemplate 
> purchasing, competing products. More hams purchase competing products than 
> buy Elecraft gear,  so you should ask THEM why.   Disregard sycophantic 
> owners who claim you make the only rig worth owning (even if that is true!) 
> Disregard those who claim other manufacturers have lost touch with their 
> customers, because that is simply not true.  Many well informed, qualified 
> hams buy other brands for good reasons.   In any case, you should determine 
> what induced them to eschew your products for theirs. Contrary to popular 
> belief,  owning Brand X is not a sign of insanity!Contest guru K3LR has 
> brand X radios in his big contest shack.  World famous Rob Sherwood NC0B has 
> four of the latest Brand X radios and the latest Brand Y radio on his desk.   
> And they are pretty smart guys.   To increase market share, you must produce 
> products that appeal to more buyers with money to spend.   (I learned this is 
> Business 101.)   ;-)
> 
> That is just MY take ... you make the call. K8JHR
> 
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> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4?

[Richards]

Mr. Eric,  perhaps you are fishing in the wrong pond ...

To coin a phrase:   Ask not why some hams buy your radios - ask why all 
the others do not.


Asking members of this group who are pleased with your products is 
misplaced.   Instead, you should poll those who recently purchased, or 
who contemplate purchasing, competing products. More hams purchase 
competing products than buy Elecraft gear,  so you should ask THEM 
why.   Disregard sycophantic owners who claim you make the only rig 
worth owning (even if that is true!) Disregard those who claim other 
manufacturers have lost touch with their customers, because that is 
simply not true.  Many well informed, qualified hams buy other brands 
for good reasons.   In any case, you should determine what induced them 
to eschew your products for theirs. Contrary to popular belief,  owning 
Brand X is not a sign of insanity!    Contest guru K3LR has brand X 
radios in his big contest shack.  World famous Rob Sherwood NC0B has 
four of the latest Brand X radios and the latest Brand Y radio on his 
desk.   And they are pretty smart guys.   To increase market share, you 
must produce products that appeal to more buyers with money to spend.   
(I learned this is Business 101.)   ;-)


That is just MY take ... you make the call. K8JHR

_


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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Folks - Let's end the "Will there be a K4?" , "Touchscreen" and related threads 
now. Very interesting suggestions and comments, but we are wy past the 
reasonable number of allowed posts on a topic :-) .


I was tied up most of the day here and just now got back on reading my email.   
Wow!


We apologize for those overloaded by the flood of emails.

-threads closed-

73,
Eric
Moderator and all sorts of other duties at..
/elecraft.com/

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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Richard Eversole]

Touch screens on something in the K3 form factor are of little use...
Also own 7100 and that screen is troublesome to use and makes me wish I had
gone with K3X and another separate 2m/440

FT8 mode would mean many firmware updates plus not clear how you get all
the useful display information... it would just be trouble and not really
worth it in the radio. Unlike PSK or RTTY where it is more obvious which
signal is being worked... the flexible channel like behavior is just too
much for the radio form factor... I like big screens and I just cant deny


Rick "The Rhino" N6RNO
@San Benito October 6-7 2018
Where will you be?

http://www.cqp.org


On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 3:12 PM Jim Brown  wrote:

> On 3/25/2019 1:55 PM, Raymond Sills via Elecraft wrote:
> > I'm sure that having FT8 as a choosable mode in a K4 would be a popular
> idea.
>
> I think it's a terrible idea, if for no other reason that Joe Taylor's
> modes have always evolved over the years to make them better. Also, it's
> trivially easy to connect computer audio to the radio audio and control
> the radio from the USB or serial port, and VOX is all you need for T/R
> switching.
>
> I do agree with K4ZRJ's request for easier control of the sub-RX.
>
> And I have no interest in a touch screen.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Edward R Cole]

Page Two: of my K4 ideas.

After writing my last post on this topic, it dawned on me the K3 
architecture already uses a separate screen box which is the P3.  So 
just expand that to being a touch screen controller with P3 
embedded.  Then its a option for those that want one.  Main radio 
remains with buttons and knobs and LCD screen which works 
independently, if desired, or with Touchscreen if desired.  The new 
touchscreen/p3 would make a nice remote rig controller.  So 
interconnect with some kind of IP connection (ethernet, I 
suppose).  I'm not a computer guy so leave details to others.  Could 
such a "critter" work with my K3?


Maybe the two units could couple together mechanically to make a 
single radio unit for those that want that.


One of the deciding factors for me choosing the K3 over the existing 
Flex radio (in 2010) was having a real VFO knob and physical controls.


I currently have a 7-inch color-LCD touchscreen in use with a 
Rasp-Pi3 for controlling antenna tracking.  Fortunately does not 
require frequent touching as my fat fingers do not do well with 
it.  I guess I need a stylus which is another thing to get lost on my 
messy radio table.


Frankly, my upgraded-K3 is fully satisfactory for me.  My home 
station is a jungle of wiring but lets me configure as I want.

details: http://www.kl7uw.com/

73, Ed - KL7UW
  http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
  dubus...@gmail.com 


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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4?

[Bill Johnson]

How about built-in network remote capability with KPA1500?

72 & 73,
Bill
K9YEQ
FT'er for K2, KX1, KX3, KXPA100,  KAT500, W2, etc. 

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Dauer, Edward
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 9:13 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4?

Wow; there's a tantalizing post.

I'll leave the important technical suggestions to others.  Here's my list:

1.  Seamless backwards compatibility with the KPA1500.  Without it, I don't buy 
a K4.  Likewise, though much less important, for the K-Pod.

2.  Similar though not necessarily identical form factor to the K3 / K3s.  
Existing investments in shack design have been built around the current 
equipment.

3.  Built-in remoting.  Get rid of the RemoteRig dongles.

4.  Whatever it takes, so far as possible, to make connecting any outboard 
computer to the rig unnecessary for any reason.

5.  Upgrading from K3 to K4, as we had for upgrading from K3 to nearly K3s, 
would be nice but I wouldn't let it stand in the way of major design changes.

6.  One tiny matter the absence of which has always just bugged me -- an 
internal contest QSO S/N counter for the internal memory CW keyer.

7.  On-board panadapter.  Touch-sensitive screen is not all that desirable.  I 
much prefer soft keys.  Keeps the PBJ off the screen.

8.  A kit version, as much as feasible.


Ted, KN1CBR


   _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 

 From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 7:15 PM
To: Elecraft list 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

Inquiring minds want to know: 
What would you all like to see as a ?K4? ? 

Eric
elecraft.com




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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[W2xj]

It is easy to run FT8 or other digital modes on a Raspberry PI. Very 
inexpensive and very small. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 25, 2019, at 6:11 PM, Jim Brown  wrote:
> 
>> On 3/25/2019 1:55 PM, Raymond Sills via Elecraft wrote:
>> I'm sure that having FT8 as a choosable mode in a K4 would be a popular idea.
> 
> I think it's a terrible idea, if for no other reason that Joe Taylor's modes 
> have always evolved over the years to make them better. Also, it's trivially 
> easy to connect computer audio to the radio audio and control the radio from 
> the USB or serial port, and VOX is all you need for T/R switching.
> 
> I do agree with K4ZRJ's request for easier control of the sub-RX.
> 
> And I have no interest in a touch screen.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Jim Brown]

On 3/25/2019 1:55 PM, Raymond Sills via Elecraft wrote:

I'm sure that having FT8 as a choosable mode in a K4 would be a popular idea.


I think it's a terrible idea, if for no other reason that Joe Taylor's 
modes have always evolved over the years to make them better. Also, it's 
trivially easy to connect computer audio to the radio audio and control 
the radio from the USB or serial port, and VOX is all you need for T/R 
switching.


I do agree with K4ZRJ's request for easier control of the sub-RX.

And I have no interest in a touch screen.

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Fred Jensen]

Ummm ... I think there are two issues here: The algorithms, coding, and 
modulation schemes for transmitting and receiving what has come to be 
known as FT8, and separately, the source code to implement all of that.  
The second is subject to the terms of the GPL V3 license, the first 
would not seem to be.  So, all Elecraft would have to do is re-invent 
the WSPR-X FT8 their own proprietary way for whatever processor they 
use.  Just a few lines of code, should take about a week. :-)


73,
Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 3/25/2019 12:38 PM, Doug Person wrote:
Even if it's just an application installed into an integrated 
computer? This would not be folding the source into other code. It's 
just installing it into a computer that happens to be inside another 
device. It wouldn't be firmware. It would be the same as when I run it 
on my Raspberry Pi.


Doug --KJ0F

On 3/25/2019 12:01 PM, Neil Zampella wrote:

FWIW .. the FT8 code is not 'open source' it is under the General Public
License v3.   According to the GPL v3 FAQ:

"You cannot incorporate GPL-covered software in a proprietary system.
The goal of the GPL is to grant everyone the freedom to copy,
redistribute, understand, and modify a program. If you could incorporate
GPL-covered software into a nonfree system, it would have the effect of
making the GPL-covered software nonfree too."

So in reality, unless the firmware is then made available under the GPL
v3, which I don't see Elecraft doing, you can't use FT8 in the firmware.

Neil, KN3iLZ



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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Raymond Sills via Elecraft]

Hi Neil:
I haven't read the fine print of the various software licenses, but it seems to 
me that FT8 is a "digital mode" and it might possibly be able to generate FT8 
compatible reception and transmission in multiple ways.Or, it might be possible 
to include a tiny linux computer inside a K4, into which you can load the FT8 
software, so it would always be in it's own universe... and not part of the 
radio's OS.
I'm sure that having FT8 as a choosable mode in a K4 would be a popular idea.  
Having said that, I'm pretty much a CW guy now... although I find it fun to be 
able to send and receive RTTY and PSK31 with my KX3.
73 de RayK2ULRKX3 #211FN20kg


-Original Message-
From: Neil Zampella 
To: elecraft 
Sent: Mon, Mar 25, 2019 1:03 pm
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

FWIW .. the FT8 code is not 'open source' it is under the General Public
License v3.   According to the GPL v3 FAQ:

"You cannot incorporate GPL-covered software in a proprietary system.
The goal of the GPL is to grant everyone the freedom to copy,
redistribute, understand, and modify a program. If you could incorporate
GPL-covered software into a nonfree system, it would have the effect of
making the GPL-covered software nonfree too."

So in reality, unless the firmware is then made available under the GPL
v3, which I don't see Elecraft doing, you can't use FT8 in the firmware.

Neil, KN3iLZ


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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Doug Person]

Even if it's just an application installed into an integrated computer? 
This would not be folding the source into other code. It's just 
installing it into a computer that happens to be inside another device. 
It wouldn't be firmware. It would be the same as when I run it on my 
Raspberry Pi.


Doug --KJ0F

On 3/25/2019 12:01 PM, Neil Zampella wrote:

FWIW .. the FT8 code is not 'open source' it is under the General Public
License v3.   According to the GPL v3 FAQ:

"You cannot incorporate GPL-covered software in a proprietary system.
The goal of the GPL is to grant everyone the freedom to copy,
redistribute, understand, and modify a program. If you could incorporate
GPL-covered software into a nonfree system, it would have the effect of
making the GPL-covered software nonfree too."

So in reality, unless the firmware is then made available under the GPL
v3, which I don't see Elecraft doing, you can't use FT8 in the firmware.

Neil, KN3iLZ

On 3/25/2019 11:57 AM, Doug Person wrote:

I think you misunderstand open source. Doug -- KJ0F

On 3/25/2019 7:37 AM, rich hurd WC3T wrote:

"integrated FT8" will never happen.  If I'm not mistaken, FT8 is open
source and incorporating that software with its licensing requirements
could expose Elecraft to all sorts of exposure; as their software is 
NOT

open-source.

At least I believe I read that somewhere.   That's my belief. Sort of
the same reason HRD or other licensed, closed-source apps do not
incorporate FT8 or any of those derivatives into their software.   They
simply can't.



On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 1:08 AM Martin Sole  wrote:


Well since you asked and made this sort of official, here's a few
things, though in no particular order of merit:

Integrated 7” (or bigger) panadaptor with touch screen.

‘Proper’ band stacking registers.

Equal sized vfo knobs for A and B.

Individual mode buttons.

AGC, NB, NR all with front panel controls adjustable on the fly.

More digital mode integration, built in FT8 with up-gradable
software as
digi modes develop.

Integrated PSU for 100-250 Vac.

50V minimum PA.

Ground Breaking earth shattering TX IMD.

Using the built in touch screen full descriptive menu.

Bigger rotary controls with more space.

RF performance equal to or better than best of the best.

Modular design with bare bones to fully loaded capability.

PA options from 10 to 500 watts fully integrated with ATU
(KPA500/KAT500).

I/Q output.

Proper base station radio without concern for portability (K3S is
already the leader there).

More extensive API giving ability to do literally everything the radio
can do from a computer.

Removeable head so the base radio can be remoted and the control head
used from where you need to be.

More ‘And’, less ‘Either or’ (Mic/Line selection level etc).


Martin, HS0ZED




On 25/03/2019 07:14, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:

Inquiring minds want to know:
What would you all like to see as a “K4” ?

Eric
elecraft.com

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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Richard Lamont]

On 25/03/2019 00:14, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:

> Inquiring minds want to know: 
> What would you all like to see as a “K4” ?

Something like the Flex / Anan SDRs, but with RX performance to match
the K3S. So maybe a 24-bit direct-sampling SDR, if such a thing is even
possible, with a open-source cross-platform application to drive it.
(For me, Windows = showstopper.)

73,
Richard G4DYA

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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Jim Brown]

On 3/25/2019 6:15 AM, Morgan Bailey wrote:

SO2R with out ground loop problems ..or Rock solid SO2R solution...for k3s
or other radios. I have the MK2R+ and I want a better solution.


Simple solution -- implement proper bonding in your station. Described here

http://k9yc.com/GroundingAndAudio.pdf

and in N0AX's recent ARRL book on the topic.

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Edward R Cole]

Re: K4 with touch-pad.

Not all will want that.  I suggest it made as and add-on accessory in 
matching cabinet and include spectrum display (of course).  On the 
main radio a simple screen on/off switch to go from manual controls 
to touch-screen.  Maybe it could do double-duty as remote panel with 
IP interface.


Keep diversity dual-Rx  and provide I/Q interface for both Rx or 
include a top-end ADC's for computer I/F (suggest you look at the 
UADC4 to see a top-end unit).  An ext I/Q connection as alternate to 
internal ADC is another option.  Soundcards are old fashion way do 
ADC and most fall short of the performance spec of the radio.


Please keep the K4/10 option vs K4/100.  KXPA100 works well with both 
my K3/10 and KX3.  If you do a K4/500 please make that an option.

Kit versions such as done with K3 would be nice.

Trying to embed digital mode sw is not a good idea as there is 
constant upgrading to many.  Unless you intend to install a dedicated 
micro internal to the radio (please shield well for digital 
noise).  Then either mouse/keyboard or touch screen keyboard is needed.


If direct-conversion SDR is to be used can freq range include 2m.  If 
you want to play in the satellite market then also need 432-438 MHz 
and crossband duplex with 144-MHz.  Also ensure freq range extends to 
630m band.


A better approach to covering 144/222/432/900/1296 would be a 
transverter accessory box.  Consider PLL LO's referenced to 10-MHz 
std. At least 25w on VHF+.  Please use N-connectors on 144+.


Better NB/NR

Others have covered the rest, so not going to repeat all.

73, Ed - KL7UW
  http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
  dubus...@gmail.com 


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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Neil Zampella]

FWIW .. the FT8 code is not 'open source' it is under the General Public
License v3.   According to the GPL v3 FAQ:

"You cannot incorporate GPL-covered software in a proprietary system.
The goal of the GPL is to grant everyone the freedom to copy,
redistribute, understand, and modify a program. If you could incorporate
GPL-covered software into a nonfree system, it would have the effect of
making the GPL-covered software nonfree too."

So in reality, unless the firmware is then made available under the GPL
v3, which I don't see Elecraft doing, you can't use FT8 in the firmware.

Neil, KN3iLZ

On 3/25/2019 11:57 AM, Doug Person wrote:

I think you misunderstand open source. Doug -- KJ0F

On 3/25/2019 7:37 AM, rich hurd WC3T wrote:

"integrated FT8" will never happen.  If I'm not mistaken, FT8 is open
source and incorporating that software with its licensing requirements
could expose Elecraft to all sorts of exposure; as their software is NOT
open-source.

At least I believe I read that somewhere.   That's my belief. Sort of
the same reason HRD or other licensed, closed-source apps do not
incorporate FT8 or any of those derivatives into their software.   They
simply can't.



On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 1:08 AM Martin Sole  wrote:


Well since you asked and made this sort of official, here's a few
things, though in no particular order of merit:

Integrated 7” (or bigger) panadaptor with touch screen.

‘Proper’ band stacking registers.

Equal sized vfo knobs for A and B.

Individual mode buttons.

AGC, NB, NR all with front panel controls adjustable on the fly.

More digital mode integration, built in FT8 with up-gradable
software as
digi modes develop.

Integrated PSU for 100-250 Vac.

50V minimum PA.

Ground Breaking earth shattering TX IMD.

Using the built in touch screen full descriptive menu.

Bigger rotary controls with more space.

RF performance equal to or better than best of the best.

Modular design with bare bones to fully loaded capability.

PA options from 10 to 500 watts fully integrated with ATU
(KPA500/KAT500).

I/Q output.

Proper base station radio without concern for portability (K3S is
already the leader there).

More extensive API giving ability to do literally everything the radio
can do from a computer.

Removeable head so the base radio can be remoted and the control head
used from where you need to be.

More ‘And’, less ‘Either or’ (Mic/Line selection level etc).


Martin, HS0ZED




On 25/03/2019 07:14, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:

Inquiring minds want to know:
What would you all like to see as a “K4” ?

Eric
elecraft.com

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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Doug Person]

The P3 is far superior to the spectrum display on the 7610? In what way? 
Are you sure you understand how to configure the 7610 display?


Doug -- KJ0F

On 3/25/2019 8:51 AM, K8TE wrote:

I will visit a friend to operate his station again for the CQ WW WPX SSB
Contest this coming weekend.  We use these opportunities to motivate and
train new contesters.  His main rig is an IC-7610.  I will bring my KPA1500
to substitute for his 600 Watt amplifier and tuner since neither provides
the kind of integration the K-Line can.

I greatly prefer operating my K3/P3 over the IC-7610!  The P3 is a far
better panadaptor than the IC-7610's!  The K3's user interface is much
simpler and more effective to operate than the IC-7610's.  BTW, this his the
second IC-7610 in my friend's shack as the first failed 46+ times during
last November's ARRL SS-SSB Contest (we may have missed counting some).
Icom had the radio for several weeks and found no trouble.  I give them
credit for replacing it after the November debacle, no questions asked.  The
replacement didn't fail during the ARRL DX-SSB Contest in February.

The K4, when it comes, I assert, will not be about aesthetics, but
performance and features serious hams want.  If you haven't been paying
attention, a significant number of those hams have replaced their K3S radios
with the Flex 6700.  Their feature set and performance have set a standard
the K4 will need to excede.  I am confident it will.

The K3S is definitely NOT "dated" with regard to performance.  Check out Rob
Sherwood's, NC0B, receiver performance listing:
http://www.sherweng.com/table.html.  The K3S is #2 for transceivers with the
upgraded K3 immediately behind it.  Elecraft's challenge is to provide a
significant improvement in performance which depends upon both hardware and
engineering.  That is more difficult than ever before.  The K3 was a
game-changer.  I suspect we won't see a K4 until it too can change the game.

I am amused by some of the Luddite comments regarding touch screens and
computer interfacing.  Yes, the K3S is an awesome stand-alone rig and the
K-Line abely performs without a computer in sight.  However, most of us have
progressed from contesting and DX'ing using paper and pen.  Don't use a
computer if you don't want, but don't knock the many advantages a computer
in the shack provides.  After all, it is 2019.  Read your equipment manuals,
get KE7X's books, and see what else you can do with your Elecraft gear.
Most of all, have fun.

I recall watching the KPA1500 poster go up on the wall at the IDXC in
Visalia.  I look forward to seeing the K4 poster there or in Xenia!  After
all, it's just my kids' inheritance I'm spending and enjoying.

73, Bill, K8TE



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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Doug Person]

I think you misunderstand open source. Doug -- KJ0F

On 3/25/2019 7:37 AM, rich hurd WC3T wrote:

"integrated FT8" will never happen.  If I'm not mistaken, FT8 is open
source and incorporating that software with its licensing requirements
could expose Elecraft to all sorts of exposure; as their software is NOT
open-source.

At least I believe I read that somewhere.   That's my belief.Sort of
the same reason HRD or other licensed, closed-source apps do not
incorporate FT8 or any of those derivatives into their software.   They
simply can't.



On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 1:08 AM Martin Sole  wrote:


Well since you asked and made this sort of official, here's a few
things, though in no particular order of merit:

Integrated 7” (or bigger) panadaptor with touch screen.

‘Proper’ band stacking registers.

Equal sized vfo knobs for A and B.

Individual mode buttons.

AGC, NB, NR all with front panel controls adjustable on the fly.

More digital mode integration, built in FT8 with up-gradable software as
digi modes develop.

Integrated PSU for 100-250 Vac.

50V minimum PA.

Ground Breaking earth shattering TX IMD.

Using the built in touch screen full descriptive menu.

Bigger rotary controls with more space.

RF performance equal to or better than best of the best.

Modular design with bare bones to fully loaded capability.

PA options from 10 to 500 watts fully integrated with ATU (KPA500/KAT500).

I/Q output.

Proper base station radio without concern for portability (K3S is
already the leader there).

More extensive API giving ability to do literally everything the radio
can do from a computer.

Removeable head so the base radio can be remoted and the control head
used from where you need to be.

More ‘And’, less ‘Either or’ (Mic/Line selection level etc).


Martin, HS0ZED




On 25/03/2019 07:14, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:

Inquiring minds want to know:
What would you all like to see as a “K4” ?

Eric
elecraft.com

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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[K9MA]

The top of my list would include a really effective noise blanker.  
Those of us who don't live way out in the countryside are often plagued 
with power line noise, which a good noise blanker can largely eliminate. 
Many older transceivers have noise blankers which are very effective on 
impulse noise, but only as long as there are no strong signals within 
5-10 kHz of the desired signal.


The "K4" noise blanker would have the ability to use a second receiver, 
with a wide IF bandwidth, tuned to a nearby quiet segment, to control 
the noise blanker in the primary receiver(s). It would be able to 
automatically find that clear segment. To be effective, the noise 
blanker receiver has to have a bandwidth of at least 15 kHz, and there 
can be no strong signals within that bandwidth.


Perhaps direct sampling would allow this to be done in software, if the 
dynamic range were large enough, but it would have to work as well as a 
hardware version.


73,

Scott K9MA

--
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k...@sdellington.us

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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Doug Person]

1.) The K3s and P3 combined in one box.

1.) A 7" touch screen with spectrum display, fully configurable for 
operations and with access to setup menu.


2.) The hybrid analog/digital technology of the K3s. It's so good as it 
is I would hate to see it change.


3.) Options for 4 meters, 2 meters and 70cm that would make it possible 
to operate satellites with appropriate external PAs and preamps


4.) Optional built-in server for direct remote access via internet (No 
connection to am external PC required for remote access).


5.) Optional 200 watt PA with 200 watt ATU


Doug -- KJ0F

On 3/24/2019 7:14 PM, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:

Inquiring minds want to know:
What would you all like to see as a “K4” ?

Eric
elecraft.com

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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[W2xj]

This would be well suited for the use of SNMP. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 25, 2019, at 7:59 AM, Mike Markowski  wrote:
> 
> Eric,
> 
> On the computer side of things, how about:
> 
> 1. Ethernet, socket-based communication with rig.  Imagine AUTO INFO
> replies direct to IP/port!  No more clashing programs.
> 2. Everything controllable by commands (like RF gain).
> 3. Info directly gettable.  E.g., no need to 'decode' display.
> 4. State directly settable. No need to emulate series of button pushes.
> 5. Pixel based display can convey much info when used with care. (Graphs,
> block diagram showing what is affected by a control.  Things like, but
> better & more compact than, my old K2DSP code:
> http://udel.edu/~mm/ham/elecraft/k2filter/ )
> 
> 73,
> Mike ab3ap
> 
> On 25/03/2019 07:14, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:
>>> Inquiring minds want to know:
>>> What would you all like to see as a “K4” ?
>>> 
>>> Eric
>>> elecraft.com
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Dave Cole (NK7Z)]

Put a web server in the K4, and control it that way via IP...  Also put 
in JSON for radio status, and add some IP based controls for everything.


73s and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Technical Specialist
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL OOC for Oregon

On 3/25/19 4:59 AM, Mike Markowski wrote:

Eric,

On the computer side of things, how about:

1. Ethernet, socket-based communication with rig.  Imagine AUTO INFO
replies direct to IP/port!  No more clashing programs.
2. Everything controllable by commands (like RF gain).
3. Info directly gettable.  E.g., no need to 'decode' display.
4. State directly settable. No need to emulate series of button pushes.
5. Pixel based display can convey much info when used with care. (Graphs,
block diagram showing what is affected by a control.  Things like, but
better & more compact than, my old K2DSP code:
http://udel.edu/~mm/ham/elecraft/k2filter/ )

73,
Mike ab3ap

On 25/03/2019 07:14, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:

Inquiring minds want to know:
What would you all like to see as a “K4” ?

Eric
elecraft.com




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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Dave Cole (NK7Z)]

Hi Jim,
Thanks for the detailed response!

73s and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Technical Specialist
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL OOC for Oregon

On 3/24/19 7:54 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

On 3/24/2019 4:41 PM, Dave Cole (NK7Z) wrote:

Have you found a good speaker for the K3?  If so, which one is it?


For any serious operating, I always use headphones. Speakers are for 
casual monitoring. If I were to recommend a speaker, it would be: 1)for 
one with very smooth frequency response between 400 Hz and 5 kHz; 2) 4 
ohm impedance; 3) a small diaphragm, and 4) high voltage sensitivity.


Contrary to popular misconceptions, wider range response is not a bad 
thing.Smooth response in the speech region is important. 4 ohm impedance 
means it will receive more power from the K3. A smaller diaphragm 
provides smoother off-axis frequency response, high voltage sensitivity 
means it will be louder. BUT -- #3 and #4 are conflicting design specs 
-- smaller diaphragms have lower voltage sensitivity.


I've used small hi-fi and pro loudspeakers and like the sound, but they 
burn too much space on my operating desk now that I have three video 
monitors (two P3s, and an extension of the computer's desktop). I 
replaced them with little black cubes a few inches that I bought as a 
box of 10 at a Chicago area hamfest about 15 years ago. They're plenty 
good enough for my needs. I also use them in the car for my 
dual-transceiver FM rig, strapped to the two posts on my headrest (two 
of them so that  I can tell which transceiver the audio is coming from).


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Walter Underwood]

> On Mar 25, 2019, at 9:10 AM, Dave Cole (NK7Z)  wrote:
> 
> Also put in JSON for radio status,

Yes, that would be lovely.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[K8TE]

I will visit a friend to operate his station again for the CQ WW WPX SSB
Contest this coming weekend.  We use these opportunities to motivate and
train new contesters.  His main rig is an IC-7610.  I will bring my KPA1500
to substitute for his 600 Watt amplifier and tuner since neither provides
the kind of integration the K-Line can.

I greatly prefer operating my K3/P3 over the IC-7610!  The P3 is a far
better panadaptor than the IC-7610's!  The K3's user interface is much
simpler and more effective to operate than the IC-7610's.  BTW, this his the
second IC-7610 in my friend's shack as the first failed 46+ times during
last November's ARRL SS-SSB Contest (we may have missed counting some). 
Icom had the radio for several weeks and found no trouble.  I give them
credit for replacing it after the November debacle, no questions asked.  The
replacement didn't fail during the ARRL DX-SSB Contest in February.

The K4, when it comes, I assert, will not be about aesthetics, but
performance and features serious hams want.  If you haven't been paying
attention, a significant number of those hams have replaced their K3S radios
with the Flex 6700.  Their feature set and performance have set a standard
the K4 will need to excede.  I am confident it will.

The K3S is definitely NOT "dated" with regard to performance.  Check out Rob
Sherwood's, NC0B, receiver performance listing: 
http://www.sherweng.com/table.html.  The K3S is #2 for transceivers with the
upgraded K3 immediately behind it.  Elecraft's challenge is to provide a
significant improvement in performance which depends upon both hardware and
engineering.  That is more difficult than ever before.  The K3 was a
game-changer.  I suspect we won't see a K4 until it too can change the game.

I am amused by some of the Luddite comments regarding touch screens and
computer interfacing.  Yes, the K3S is an awesome stand-alone rig and the
K-Line abely performs without a computer in sight.  However, most of us have
progressed from contesting and DX'ing using paper and pen.  Don't use a
computer if you don't want, but don't knock the many advantages a computer
in the shack provides.  After all, it is 2019.  Read your equipment manuals,
get KE7X's books, and see what else you can do with your Elecraft gear. 
Most of all, have fun.

I recall watching the KPA1500 poster go up on the wall at the IDXC in
Visalia.  I look forward to seeing the K4 poster there or in Xenia!  After
all, it's just my kids' inheritance I'm spending and enjoying.

73, Bill, K8TE



--
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Morgan Bailey]

SO2R with out ground loop problems ..or Rock solid SO2R solution...for k3s
or other radios. I have the MK2R+ and I want a better solution.

On Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 01:08 Martin Sole  wrote:

> Well since you asked and made this sort of official, here's a few
> things, though in no particular order of merit:
>
> Integrated 7” (or bigger) panadaptor with touch screen.
>
> ‘Proper’ band stacking registers.
>
> Equal sized vfo knobs for A and B.
>
> Individual mode buttons.
>
> AGC, NB, NR all with front panel controls adjustable on the fly.
>
> More digital mode integration, built in FT8 with up-gradable software as
> digi modes develop.
>
> Integrated PSU for 100-250 Vac.
>
> 50V minimum PA.
>
> Ground Breaking earth shattering TX IMD.
>
> Using the built in touch screen full descriptive menu.
>
> Bigger rotary controls with more space.
>
> RF performance equal to or better than best of the best.
>
> Modular design with bare bones to fully loaded capability.
>
> PA options from 10 to 500 watts fully integrated with ATU (KPA500/KAT500).
>
> I/Q output.
>
> Proper base station radio without concern for portability (K3S is
> already the leader there).
>
> More extensive API giving ability to do literally everything the radio
> can do from a computer.
>
> Removeable head so the base radio can be remoted and the control head
> used from where you need to be.
>
> More ‘And’, less ‘Either or’ (Mic/Line selection level etc).
>
>
> Martin, HS0ZED
>
>
>
>
> On 25/03/2019 07:14, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:
> > Inquiring minds want to know:
> > What would you all like to see as a “K4” ?
> >
> > Eric
> > elecraft.com
> >
> > __
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> >
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>
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[rich hurd WC3T]

"integrated FT8" will never happen.  If I'm not mistaken, FT8 is open
source and incorporating that software with its licensing requirements
could expose Elecraft to all sorts of exposure; as their software is NOT
open-source.

At least I believe I read that somewhere.   That's my belief.Sort of
the same reason HRD or other licensed, closed-source apps do not
incorporate FT8 or any of those derivatives into their software.   They
simply can't.



On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 1:08 AM Martin Sole  wrote:

> Well since you asked and made this sort of official, here's a few
> things, though in no particular order of merit:
>
> Integrated 7” (or bigger) panadaptor with touch screen.
>
> ‘Proper’ band stacking registers.
>
> Equal sized vfo knobs for A and B.
>
> Individual mode buttons.
>
> AGC, NB, NR all with front panel controls adjustable on the fly.
>
> More digital mode integration, built in FT8 with up-gradable software as
> digi modes develop.
>
> Integrated PSU for 100-250 Vac.
>
> 50V minimum PA.
>
> Ground Breaking earth shattering TX IMD.
>
> Using the built in touch screen full descriptive menu.
>
> Bigger rotary controls with more space.
>
> RF performance equal to or better than best of the best.
>
> Modular design with bare bones to fully loaded capability.
>
> PA options from 10 to 500 watts fully integrated with ATU (KPA500/KAT500).
>
> I/Q output.
>
> Proper base station radio without concern for portability (K3S is
> already the leader there).
>
> More extensive API giving ability to do literally everything the radio
> can do from a computer.
>
> Removeable head so the base radio can be remoted and the control head
> used from where you need to be.
>
> More ‘And’, less ‘Either or’ (Mic/Line selection level etc).
>
>
> Martin, HS0ZED
>
>
>
>
> On 25/03/2019 07:14, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:
> > Inquiring minds want to know:
> > What would you all like to see as a “K4” ?
> >
> > Eric
> > elecraft.com
> >
> > __
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> >
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> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
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-- 
72,
Rich Hurd / WC3T / DMR: 3142737
Northampton County RACES, EPA-ARRL Public Information Officer for Scouting
Latitude: 40.761621 Longitude: -75.288988  (40°45.68' N 75°17.33' W) Grid:
*FN20is*
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Gordon LaPoint]

I would love an SDR (I have an ANAN-10e) with a front panel and the 
software for the computer, best of both worlds.  I have an Apache Labs 
ANAN-7000 DLE Mk2 (without computer) on order, but would love to replace 
that with the K4, that is full SDR with dual ADC's like the ANAN-7000.


I have a K2(10Watt) and a K3 (updated, but not USB module), KPA/KAP 500 
combo and will keep all of the Elecraft equipment.


I love the bandscope that I can click on with the mouse and tune the 
radio to a signal, the K4 needs a band scope on the computer screen when 
used with a computer!


PureSignal on TX is now a must, get ahead of everyone, except the Apache 
Labs radios.


Better noise reduction, (even the ANAN-10e has better)

CW as good as the K3, or better.

That is a good start, lets see what others come up with.

Gordon - N1MGO  (long time K3 user)

On 3/24/19 8:14 PM, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:

Inquiring minds want to know:
What would you all like to see as a “K4” ?

Eric
elecraft.com

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--
Gordon - N1MGO

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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Mike Markowski]

Eric,

On the computer side of things, how about:

1. Ethernet, socket-based communication with rig.  Imagine AUTO INFO
replies direct to IP/port!  No more clashing programs.
2. Everything controllable by commands (like RF gain).
3. Info directly gettable.  E.g., no need to 'decode' display.
4. State directly settable. No need to emulate series of button pushes.
5. Pixel based display can convey much info when used with care. (Graphs,
block diagram showing what is affected by a control.  Things like, but
better & more compact than, my old K2DSP code:
http://udel.edu/~mm/ham/elecraft/k2filter/ )

73,
Mike ab3ap

On 25/03/2019 07:14, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:
> > Inquiring minds want to know:
> > What would you all like to see as a “K4” ?
> >
> > Eric
> > elecraft.com
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[hdv]

My addition:Better/autonomous RS232/USB "broadcasting" of settings. (with menu 
selection of catagories)Looping of DVR messages with amount or time control73 
HenkPA0CVerzonden vanaf mijn Samsung Galaxy-smartphone.
 Oorspronkelijk bericht Van: Andy McMullin  
Datum: 25-03-19  12:33  (GMT+01:00) Aan: John Stengrevics 
 Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net, Martin Sole 
 Onderwerp: Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4 And my little 
add — VHF/UHFAndyG8TQH> On 25 Mar 2019, at 11:30, John Stengrevics 
 wrote:> > I would add to that:  Significantly 
improved noise blanking and noise reduction.> > John> WA1EAZ> >> On Mar 25, 
2019, at 1:08 AM, Martin Sole  wrote:>> >> Well since you 
asked and made this sort of official, here's a few things, though in no 
particular order of merit:>> >> Integrated 7” (or bigger) panadaptor with touch 
screen.>> >> ‘Proper’ band stacking registers.>> >> Equal sized vfo knobs for A 
and B.>> >> Individual mode buttons.>> >> AGC, NB, NR all with front panel 
controls adjustable on the fly.>> >> More digital mode integration, built in 
FT8 with up-gradable software as digi modes develop.>> >> Integrated PSU for 
100-250 Vac.>> >> 50V minimum PA.>> >> Ground Breaking earth shattering TX 
IMD.>> >> Using the built in touch screen full descriptive menu.>> >> Bigger 
rotary controls with more space.>> >> RF performance equal to or better than 
best of the best.>> >> Modular design with bare bones to fully loaded 
capability.>> >> PA options from 10 to 500 watts fully integrated with ATU 
(KPA500/KAT500).>> >> I/Q output.>> >> Proper base station radio without 
concern for portability (K3S is already the leader there).>> >> More extensive 
API giving ability to do literally everything the radio can do from a 
computer.>> >> Removeable head so the base radio can be remoted and the control 
head used from where you need to be.>> >> More ‘And’, less ‘Either or’ 
(Mic/Line selection level etc).>> >> >> Martin, HS0ZED>> >> >> >> >> On 
25/03/2019 07:14, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:>>> Inquiring minds want 
to know:>>> What would you all like to see as a “K4” ?>>> >>> Eric>>> 
elecraft.com>>> >>> 
__>>> Elecraft 
mailing list>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>>> Help: 
http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm>>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net>>> 
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net>>> Please help support this email 
list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html>> >> 
__>> Elecraft 
mailing list>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>> Help: 
http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net>> >> 
This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net>> Please help support this email list: 
http://www.qsl.net/donate.html> > 
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mailing list> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft> Help: 
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Andy McMullin]

And my little add — VHF/UHF

Andy
G8TQH

> On 25 Mar 2019, at 11:30, John Stengrevics  wrote:
> 
> I would add to that:  Significantly improved noise blanking and noise 
> reduction.
> 
> John
> WA1EAZ
> 
>> On Mar 25, 2019, at 1:08 AM, Martin Sole  wrote:
>> 
>> Well since you asked and made this sort of official, here's a few things, 
>> though in no particular order of merit:
>> 
>> Integrated 7” (or bigger) panadaptor with touch screen.
>> 
>> ‘Proper’ band stacking registers.
>> 
>> Equal sized vfo knobs for A and B.
>> 
>> Individual mode buttons.
>> 
>> AGC, NB, NR all with front panel controls adjustable on the fly.
>> 
>> More digital mode integration, built in FT8 with up-gradable software as 
>> digi modes develop.
>> 
>> Integrated PSU for 100-250 Vac.
>> 
>> 50V minimum PA.
>> 
>> Ground Breaking earth shattering TX IMD.
>> 
>> Using the built in touch screen full descriptive menu.
>> 
>> Bigger rotary controls with more space.
>> 
>> RF performance equal to or better than best of the best.
>> 
>> Modular design with bare bones to fully loaded capability.
>> 
>> PA options from 10 to 500 watts fully integrated with ATU (KPA500/KAT500).
>> 
>> I/Q output.
>> 
>> Proper base station radio without concern for portability (K3S is already 
>> the leader there).
>> 
>> More extensive API giving ability to do literally everything the radio can 
>> do from a computer.
>> 
>> Removeable head so the base radio can be remoted and the control head used 
>> from where you need to be.
>> 
>> More ‘And’, less ‘Either or’ (Mic/Line selection level etc).
>> 
>> 
>> Martin, HS0ZED
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 25/03/2019 07:14, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:
>>> Inquiring minds want to know:
>>> What would you all like to see as a “K4” ?
>>> 
>>> Eric
>>> elecraft.com
>>> 
>>> __
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>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[John Stengrevics]

I would add to that:  Significantly improved noise blanking and noise reduction.

John
WA1EAZ

> On Mar 25, 2019, at 1:08 AM, Martin Sole  wrote:
> 
> Well since you asked and made this sort of official, here's a few things, 
> though in no particular order of merit:
> 
> Integrated 7” (or bigger) panadaptor with touch screen.
> 
> ‘Proper’ band stacking registers.
> 
> Equal sized vfo knobs for A and B.
> 
> Individual mode buttons.
> 
> AGC, NB, NR all with front panel controls adjustable on the fly.
> 
> More digital mode integration, built in FT8 with up-gradable software as digi 
> modes develop.
> 
> Integrated PSU for 100-250 Vac.
> 
> 50V minimum PA.
> 
> Ground Breaking earth shattering TX IMD.
> 
> Using the built in touch screen full descriptive menu.
> 
> Bigger rotary controls with more space.
> 
> RF performance equal to or better than best of the best.
> 
> Modular design with bare bones to fully loaded capability.
> 
> PA options from 10 to 500 watts fully integrated with ATU (KPA500/KAT500).
> 
> I/Q output.
> 
> Proper base station radio without concern for portability (K3S is already the 
> leader there).
> 
> More extensive API giving ability to do literally everything the radio can do 
> from a computer.
> 
> Removeable head so the base radio can be remoted and the control head used 
> from where you need to be.
> 
> More ‘And’, less ‘Either or’ (Mic/Line selection level etc).
> 
> 
> Martin, HS0ZED
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 25/03/2019 07:14, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:
>> Inquiring minds want to know:
>> What would you all like to see as a “K4” ?
>> 
>> Eric
>> elecraft.com
>> 
>> __
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> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Bert Craig]

I'm in the same boat with a "slush fund" specifically created for a loaded 
CW-optimized K3S. However, two factors keep me from pulling the trigger on that 
purchase. The main subject re. the possibility of a K4 and the fact that my 
K2/100 performs so darn well.

Additionally, I personally find the amber display a tad tough on these old 
eyes. As minor as it sounds, I might have purchased a new K3S last year upon 
fund maturity had a green display been an option.

I purchased A Yaesu  FT-991A for VHF/UHF SSB work some months ago. On HF, the 
K2/100 still "cleans it's clock!" One time, I tried to locate a DX station 
spotted on the cluster but couldn't hear it. Removed the PL-259 from the 
FT-991A and moved it directly over to the K2/100 and voilà, there it was. Weak 
but readable, and subsequently wrkd. Not too shabby for an almost-20 yr. old 
rig.

Vy 73 de Bert
WA2SI 
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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Martin Sole]

How many can they sell is probably a big question.

I would suggest there are 3 main groups of amateur radio buyers:

1. Will always buy the newest greatest Elecraft (Kool Aid guys)
2. Already have a K3(S) whatever, fully loaded, good enough, not looking 
to buy new.

3. Wouldn't buy K3S because...

Group one will already sign up for it, probably pre-ordering as is the 
Elecraft way. Elecraft only has to change the badge for this group.


Group two are not going to buy, at least some anyway, others may be 
convinced to move from group two if there is enough of a differential 
with existing products.


Group three is the probably the primary target and to do this it needs 
to be a product that does what previous products have not, to some 
greater or lesser degree.


With a fully flexible, up-gradable, architecture such a product needs to 
start at a price where it looks attractive against similar spec 
competition. A premium added for its ability to be turned into a top 
tier radio. At the high end for the fully loaded gold plated edition I 
thing nobody has gone there yet. FT9000/IC7851/Flex6700M/Hilberling? 
really they only were bigger fatter radios $15k seems possible.


Martin,HS0ZED

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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP]

1. A bitmapped display, so that it could be updated with the software, 
and would support soft keys.


2. A touch screen. Whether to go this way is a hard call. Many operators 
hate them. But given that there are many good reasons to keep the same 
form factor, it gets harder and harder to cram all the functionality 
into the small space available. A touch screen could completely 
reconfigure itself when you change modes. There is the possibility of 
providing a configuration utility that would let the operator develop 
his/her own screens. I would never have to look at the XFIL button 
again. We could get rid of the touch/hold interface, which is still 
error-prone for me after decades.


3. A bus/backplane architecture. It would permit almost total hardware 
upgradeability. The current K3 goes in this direction, but not far 
enough. But use gold pins.


4. The CW Pitch adjustment should not produce a tone, but should let you 
hear normal signals.


5. NB/NR performance could be improved over the K3/K3S. (I haven't tried 
the KX3/KX2).


6. Please do NOT build in firmware functionality for modes like FT8. On 
the other hand, a bus/backplane arrangement could allow the operator to 
plug in a single board Windows or Linux computer that could be used for 
external software for digital modes or logging or countless other things.


73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
CWops no. 5
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
On 25 Mar 2019 02:14, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:

Inquiring minds want to know:
What would you all like to see as a “K4” ?

Eric
elecraft.com


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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Martin Sole]

Well since you asked and made this sort of official, here's a few 
things, though in no particular order of merit:


Integrated 7” (or bigger) panadaptor with touch screen.

‘Proper’ band stacking registers.

Equal sized vfo knobs for A and B.

Individual mode buttons.

AGC, NB, NR all with front panel controls adjustable on the fly.

More digital mode integration, built in FT8 with up-gradable software as 
digi modes develop.


Integrated PSU for 100-250 Vac.

50V minimum PA.

Ground Breaking earth shattering TX IMD.

Using the built in touch screen full descriptive menu.

Bigger rotary controls with more space.

RF performance equal to or better than best of the best.

Modular design with bare bones to fully loaded capability.

PA options from 10 to 500 watts fully integrated with ATU (KPA500/KAT500).

I/Q output.

Proper base station radio without concern for portability (K3S is 
already the leader there).


More extensive API giving ability to do literally everything the radio 
can do from a computer.


Removeable head so the base radio can be remoted and the control head 
used from where you need to be.


More ‘And’, less ‘Either or’ (Mic/Line selection level etc).


Martin, HS0ZED




On 25/03/2019 07:14, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote:

Inquiring minds want to know:
What would you all like to see as a “K4” ?

Eric
elecraft.com

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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4?

[Barry]

Merv,
I didn't mean using the P3 for I data. I would prefer having it 
available from the K3S/K4. That would really cut down on the extra 
stuff.


73,
Barry
K3NDM

-- Original Message --
From: "K9FD" 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: 3/24/2019 10:37:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4?


THe P3 is already a receiver,  all it needs is a board to bring the I/Q out to 
the world,
How about Elecraft making a board for that purpose?
Has been talked about before but have heard of nothing happening with the idea.
Im sure there are many willing to invest in a board and what ever else it 
takes,  it would
keep everything in the K3/P3 enclosures,  and eliminate all the hang on pieces 
that people
use now.

73 Merv K9FD


I'm easy. All I want is the I stream available on the back of the radio as it 
is on the KX3 while keeping the IF output. That opens up a number of options that I 
now use work arounds for.

73,
Barry
K3NDM

-- Original Message --
From: "Dauer, Edward" 
To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
Sent: 3/24/2019 10:12:48 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4?


Wow; there's a tantalizing post.

I'll leave the important technical suggestions to others. Here's my list:

1.  Seamless backwards compatibility with the KPA1500.  Without it, I don't buy 
a K4.  Likewise, though much less important, for the K-Pod.

2.  Similar though not necessarily identical form factor to the K3 / K3s.  
Existing investments in shack design have been built around the current 
equipment.

3.  Built-in remoting.  Get rid of the RemoteRig dongles.

4.  Whatever it takes, so far as possible, to make connecting any outboard 
computer to the rig unnecessary for any reason.

5.  Upgrading from K3 to K4, as we had for upgrading from K3 to nearly K3s, 
would be nice but I wouldn't let it stand in the way of major design changes.

6.  One tiny matter the absence of which has always just bugged me -- an 
internal contest QSO S/N counter for the internal memory CW keyer.

7.  On-board panadapter.  Touch-sensitive screen is not all that desirable.  I 
much prefer soft keys.  Keeps the PBJ off the screen.

8.  A kit version, as much as feasible.


Ted, KN1CBR


   _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

 From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 7:15 PM
To: Elecraft list 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

Inquiring minds want to know:
What would you all like to see as a ?K4? ?

Eric
elecraft.com




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Re: [Elecraft] Will there be a K4

[Joan via Elecraft]

I don’t know about a future ‘K4’, but I do know that when Wayne [et al] put 
your minds to designing a ‘KX4’, you might ponder a high res (possibly colour) 
display which could be remapped at will in firmware updates and be capable of 
displaying a spectral waterfall and more than 7 characters of text copy (say, 
80 perhaps?  Like my QRPworks SideCar+ has, linked via RS232 to my KX2).  I 
imagine what my KX-line radio would be like were the functionality of the 
SideKar bundled into it (to wit the 80-char display and USB/2.4GHz querty kbd 
connectivity).  Oh, and a high res waterfall.

I do wish my KX2 had quadrature output at times; however, I am aware of the 
compromises which had to be made to shrink it down (such as pin diode switching 
instead of MOS FET switching, etc), and as a portable CW operator I don’t miss 
the fancy stuff as much as some might.  You were asking us to imagine the 
penultimate next Elecraft, however, so here were my two cents.  The design 
refinements and attention to subtle detail already present in my current 
elegantly crafted radio make me happy every time I use it.  Tnx ^_^

Excellent longform interview wid u two on Hamnation btw !  FB es tnx =  72 CUL 
etc  de KX2CW ..

~Joan 
“a Watt is a Lot” 

Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra, said Piglet.
Shaka, when the walls fell, said Pooh.

> On Mar 24, 2019, at 17:14, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft  
> wrote:
> 
> Inquiring minds want to know: 
> What would you all like to see as a “K4” ? 
> 
> Eric
> elecraft.com
> 
> 
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