subject:"Re\: \[LincolnTalk\] Community Center"

The town can not dictate a specific tenant to a property owner through any
process. The town can approach a property owner with an appealing offer.
All discussions to date of the proposed mall zoning will permit a use such
as a community center, and I will be very surprised if they do not continue
to do so.

[Note: I am not making any statement about where the community center does
or does not belong, only clarifying what is and is not theoretically
possible]

On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 3:03 PM Peter Buchthal  wrote:

> I respectfully disagree.  I don't believe the Planning Board can specify
> the tenants and the terms for a future community center at the Lincoln
> Mall  as the Mall under Options C and D1-D3 will be developed by right and
> won't require a Town Meeting for a building permit.  I am not an attorney,
> but using google, I did not find any examples of a Town being able to
> pre-reserve space in a development built by right for the Town's use.  If
> you want the possibility of a community center at the Lincoln Mall, choose
> Option E.
>
> Peter Buchthal
> Weston Rd.
>
> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 2:53 PM Margaret Olson 
> wrote:
>
>> The likelihood or not of the community center at the mall is irrelevant
>> to which option is chosen. It is equally likely or unlikely with C as with
>> E, or with any of the D options.
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 2:38 PM Karla Gravis 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Why would including the Community Center as part of the mall be a
>>> "project killer"? We could sign a 10/20/30 year lease. Wouldn't a developer
>>> jump at the chance to have a stable tenant instead of having to deal with
>>> constant retail turnover? Or is this comment an indictment of the viability
>>> of any commercial space at the Mall area?
>>>
>>> According to the town's economic feasibility study, a developer could
>>> consider charging ~$3 per sqft in monthly rent. For a 10,000 sqft CC, that
>>> would mean $360K in yearly rent. Compare that to the town's yearly debt
>>> service payment of $0.77M - $1.54M for the proposed CC designs.  The
>>> savings come from the fact that public buildings are much more costly to
>>> build than what private developments cost.
>>>
>>> In relation to the argument that the CC cannot be in the mall area
>>> because of LEAP, there is no need to have LEAP move to the mall. Remodeling
>>> Pod C (where LEAP is currently hosted) has been estimated at $3.5M. The
>>> non-LEAP portion of the community center designs being put to vote will be
>>> costing the town $12.5M - $21.5M. If the annual cost of the community
>>> center is $360k instead of $1M+, there will surely be some left to renovate
>>> LEAP.
>>>
>>> To be clear, this is not Civico's plan for the mall. If Option C is
>>> chosen, this synergistic combination will likely not happen. However, with
>>> Option E, this could very much be part of the project presented to the
>>> Town. We could tap TCB (The Community Builders - pun intended) to build a
>>> community center and truly affordable housing.
>>>
>>>
>>>

 On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 12:47 Paul Shorb  wrote:

> The CCBC has an FAQ linked here
> 
>  that explains
> why the community center should be located at Hartwell campus (as the Town
> has voted to approve multiple times) rather than at the Mall.
>
> Putting a community center at the Town center would be much more
> expensive, if it could be accomplished at all. As I noted in another
> post just now, shared spaces are efficient, since (A) seniors tend to
> use the facilities in the day and (B) school children do so in the later
> afternoon, walking from the school buildings to participate in Lincoln's
> Parks & Rec programs or LEAP.  Building a separate community center
> at the town center would still leave the town with the need to renovate 
> the
> spaces that would remain at Hartwell; I have heard the estimate of about
> $3.5 million for each of three pods at Hartwell.
>
> Also, I'm not sure how a community center at the Town center could
> actually be achieved. The Town center does not have sufficient
> available Town-owned space to build a community center. You therefore
> suggested including the Community Center as a required accessory use
> in the development of a future residential project at Lincoln Station.
> However, despite the rosy theory provided by your urban planning contact, 
> that
> sounds like a project-killer to me.
>
> Dealing with climate change is a big motivator for me. That pushes me
> in the direction of Option C, much more than getting a community center
> somehow forced into a future development of the Mall. If I'm right that 
> "required
> accessory use" would be a project-killer, then we would thus not only
> fail to get a community center built there, but

Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center as part of the mall

2023-12-01 Thread Peter Buchthal

I respectfully disagree.  I don't believe the Planning Board can specify
the tenants and the terms for a future community center at the Lincoln
Mall  as the Mall under Options C and D1-D3 will be developed by right and
won't require a Town Meeting for a building permit.  I am not an attorney,
but using google, I did not find any examples of a Town being able to
pre-reserve space in a development built by right for the Town's use.  If
you want the possibility of a community center at the Lincoln Mall, choose
Option E.

Peter Buchthal
Weston Rd.

On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 2:53 PM Margaret Olson  wrote:

> The likelihood or not of the community center at the mall is irrelevant to
> which option is chosen. It is equally likely or unlikely with C as with E,
> or with any of the D options.
>
> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 2:38 PM Karla Gravis  wrote:
>
>> Why would including the Community Center as part of the mall be a
>> "project killer"? We could sign a 10/20/30 year lease. Wouldn't a developer
>> jump at the chance to have a stable tenant instead of having to deal with
>> constant retail turnover? Or is this comment an indictment of the viability
>> of any commercial space at the Mall area?
>>
>> According to the town's economic feasibility study, a developer could
>> consider charging ~$3 per sqft in monthly rent. For a 10,000 sqft CC, that
>> would mean $360K in yearly rent. Compare that to the town's yearly debt
>> service payment of $0.77M - $1.54M for the proposed CC designs.  The
>> savings come from the fact that public buildings are much more costly to
>> build than what private developments cost.
>>
>> In relation to the argument that the CC cannot be in the mall area
>> because of LEAP, there is no need to have LEAP move to the mall. Remodeling
>> Pod C (where LEAP is currently hosted) has been estimated at $3.5M. The
>> non-LEAP portion of the community center designs being put to vote will be
>> costing the town $12.5M - $21.5M. If the annual cost of the community
>> center is $360k instead of $1M+, there will surely be some left to renovate
>> LEAP.
>>
>> To be clear, this is not Civico's plan for the mall. If Option C is
>> chosen, this synergistic combination will likely not happen. However, with
>> Option E, this could very much be part of the project presented to the
>> Town. We could tap TCB (The Community Builders - pun intended) to build a
>> community center and truly affordable housing.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 12:47 Paul Shorb  wrote:
>>>
 The CCBC has an FAQ linked here

  that explains
 why the community center should be located at Hartwell campus (as the Town
 has voted to approve multiple times) rather than at the Mall.

 Putting a community center at the Town center would be much more
 expensive, if it could be accomplished at all. As I noted in another
 post just now, shared spaces are efficient, since (A) seniors tend to
 use the facilities in the day and (B) school children do so in the later
 afternoon, walking from the school buildings to participate in Lincoln's
 Parks & Rec programs or LEAP.  Building a separate community center at
 the town center would still leave the town with the need to renovate the
 spaces that would remain at Hartwell; I have heard the estimate of about
 $3.5 million for each of three pods at Hartwell.

 Also, I'm not sure how a community center at the Town center could
 actually be achieved. The Town center does not have sufficient
 available Town-owned space to build a community center. You therefore
 suggested including the Community Center as a required accessory use
 in the development of a future residential project at Lincoln Station.
 However, despite the rosy theory provided by your urban planning contact, 
 that
 sounds like a project-killer to me.

 Dealing with climate change is a big motivator for me. That pushes me
 in the direction of Option C, much more than getting a community center
 somehow forced into a future development of the Mall. If I'm right that 
 "required
 accessory use" would be a project-killer, then we would thus not only
 fail to get a community center built there, but also fail to get the
 Mall redeveloped with higher-density near the rail stop and shopping,
 which would be the biggest potential climate win here.

 Paul Shorb
 (a member of the RLF Board but expressing my personal views here)

 On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 7:54 AM Ken Hurd  wrote:

> Hello LincolnTalkers,
> With apologies for expressing yet again my strongly held opinion as an
> architect concerned with what we build in Lincoln, I want to remind
> everyone why I and many others believe we should not build a community
> center on the school campus.  I still believe it should

Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center as part of the mall

2023-12-01 Thread Paul Shorb

You are right, I don't know that it would be a project killer. That was
just my non-expert guess. If the town were willing to pay a high enough
rent for community-center space at a redeveloped Mall, I guess that could
work economically from the developer's point of view.

That would still leave the question of whether that is the kind of
community center that we want to have. Space at the Mall is limited, and
everyone seems to agree about wanting to keep as much commercial space
active there as shoppers will support. So my guess (again, non-expert) is
that a community center squeezed into what would otherwise be ground-floor
commercial space at the Mall would be small and dreary, compared to what
has been sketched out for the roomier, greener Hartwell campus (in
addition to losing the cost efficiencies and social benefits from creating
a multi-programmatic multi-generational space, previously discussed).

In any event, the above questions seem relevant only to what one wants to
vote for in 2024, when a final community center plan is put before Town
Meeting, not to the voting tomorrow. Margaret Olson has pointed out in this
thread that where you think the community center should be should be
irrelevant to which HCA option you cote for, since ending up with a
community center in the town center "is equally likely or unlikely with C
as with E, or with any of the D options". I haven't got my own head fully
wrapped around why that is so -- getting dizzy from trying to follow LT
today --  but I trust her to know!

Paul Shorb
(RLF Board member but sharing my personal views here)

On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 2:38 PM Karla Gravis  wrote:

> Why would including the Community Center as part of the mall be a "project
> killer"? We could sign a 10/20/30 year lease. Wouldn't a developer jump at
> the chance to have a stable tenant instead of having to deal with constant
> retail turnover? Or is this comment an indictment of the viability of any
> commercial space at the Mall area?
>
> According to the town's economic feasibility study, a developer could
> consider charging ~$3 per sqft in monthly rent. For a 10,000 sqft CC, that
> would mean $360K in yearly rent. Compare that to the town's yearly debt
> service payment of $0.77M - $1.54M for the proposed CC designs.  The
> savings come from the fact that public buildings are much more costly to
> build than what private developments cost.
>
> In relation to the argument that the CC cannot be in the mall area because
> of LEAP, there is no need to have LEAP move to the mall. Remodeling Pod C
> (where LEAP is currently hosted) has been estimated at $3.5M. The non-LEAP
> portion of the community center designs being put to vote will be costing
> the town $12.5M - $21.5M. If the annual cost of the community center is
> $360k instead of $1M+, there will surely be some left to renovate LEAP.
>
> To be clear, this is not Civico's plan for the mall. If Option C is
> chosen, this synergistic combination will likely not happen. However, with
> Option E, this could very much be part of the project presented to the
> Town. We could tap TCB (The Community Builders - pun intended) to build a
> community center and truly affordable housing.
>
>
>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 12:47 Paul Shorb  wrote:
>>
>>> The CCBC has an FAQ linked here
>>> 
>>>  that explains
>>> why the community center should be located at Hartwell campus (as the Town
>>> has voted to approve multiple times) rather than at the Mall.
>>>
>>> Putting a community center at the Town center would be much more
>>> expensive, if it could be accomplished at all. As I noted in another
>>> post just now, shared spaces are efficient, since (A) seniors tend to
>>> use the facilities in the day and (B) school children do so in the later
>>> afternoon, walking from the school buildings to participate in Lincoln's
>>> Parks & Rec programs or LEAP.  Building a separate community center at
>>> the town center would still leave the town with the need to renovate the
>>> spaces that would remain at Hartwell; I have heard the estimate of about
>>> $3.5 million for each of three pods at Hartwell.
>>>
>>> Also, I'm not sure how a community center at the Town center could
>>> actually be achieved. The Town center does not have sufficient
>>> available Town-owned space to build a community center. You therefore
>>> suggested including the Community Center as a required accessory use in
>>> the development of a future residential project at Lincoln Station.
>>> However, despite the rosy theory provided by your urban planning contact, 
>>> that
>>> sounds like a project-killer to me.
>>>
>>> Dealing with climate change is a big motivator for me. That pushes me in
>>> the direction of Option C, much more than getting a community center
>>> somehow forced into a future development of the Mall. If I'm right that 
>>> "required
>>> accessory

Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center as part of the mall

The likelihood or not of the community center at the mall is irrelevant to
which option is chosen. It is equally likely or unlikely with C as with E,
or with any of the D options.

On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 2:38 PM Karla Gravis  wrote:

> Why would including the Community Center as part of the mall be a "project
> killer"? We could sign a 10/20/30 year lease. Wouldn't a developer jump at
> the chance to have a stable tenant instead of having to deal with constant
> retail turnover? Or is this comment an indictment of the viability of any
> commercial space at the Mall area?
>
> According to the town's economic feasibility study, a developer could
> consider charging ~$3 per sqft in monthly rent. For a 10,000 sqft CC, that
> would mean $360K in yearly rent. Compare that to the town's yearly debt
> service payment of $0.77M - $1.54M for the proposed CC designs.  The
> savings come from the fact that public buildings are much more costly to
> build than what private developments cost.
>
> In relation to the argument that the CC cannot be in the mall area because
> of LEAP, there is no need to have LEAP move to the mall. Remodeling Pod C
> (where LEAP is currently hosted) has been estimated at $3.5M. The non-LEAP
> portion of the community center designs being put to vote will be costing
> the town $12.5M - $21.5M. If the annual cost of the community center is
> $360k instead of $1M+, there will surely be some left to renovate LEAP.
>
> To be clear, this is not Civico's plan for the mall. If Option C is
> chosen, this synergistic combination will likely not happen. However, with
> Option E, this could very much be part of the project presented to the
> Town. We could tap TCB (The Community Builders - pun intended) to build a
> community center and truly affordable housing.
>
>
>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 12:47 Paul Shorb  wrote:
>>
>>> The CCBC has an FAQ linked here
>>> 
>>>  that explains
>>> why the community center should be located at Hartwell campus (as the Town
>>> has voted to approve multiple times) rather than at the Mall.
>>>
>>> Putting a community center at the Town center would be much more
>>> expensive, if it could be accomplished at all. As I noted in another
>>> post just now, shared spaces are efficient, since (A) seniors tend to
>>> use the facilities in the day and (B) school children do so in the later
>>> afternoon, walking from the school buildings to participate in Lincoln's
>>> Parks & Rec programs or LEAP.  Building a separate community center at
>>> the town center would still leave the town with the need to renovate the
>>> spaces that would remain at Hartwell; I have heard the estimate of about
>>> $3.5 million for each of three pods at Hartwell.
>>>
>>> Also, I'm not sure how a community center at the Town center could
>>> actually be achieved. The Town center does not have sufficient
>>> available Town-owned space to build a community center. You therefore
>>> suggested including the Community Center as a required accessory use in
>>> the development of a future residential project at Lincoln Station.
>>> However, despite the rosy theory provided by your urban planning contact, 
>>> that
>>> sounds like a project-killer to me.
>>>
>>> Dealing with climate change is a big motivator for me. That pushes me in
>>> the direction of Option C, much more than getting a community center
>>> somehow forced into a future development of the Mall. If I'm right that 
>>> "required
>>> accessory use" would be a project-killer, then we would thus not only
>>> fail to get a community center built there, but also fail to get the
>>> Mall redeveloped with higher-density near the rail stop and shopping,
>>> which would be the biggest potential climate win here.
>>>
>>> Paul Shorb
>>> (a member of the RLF Board but expressing my personal views here)
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 7:54 AM Ken Hurd  wrote:
>>>
 Hello LincolnTalkers,
 With apologies for expressing yet again my strongly held opinion as an
 architect concerned with what we build in Lincoln, I want to remind
 everyone why I and many others believe we should not build a community
 center on the school campus.  I still believe it should be located in
 Lincoln Station, particularly now that our small commercial area is in play
 because of the Housing Choice Act.

 As I wrote last year, "I fully support building a new facility, but it
 has long been my opinion that such a major investment by the town should be
 deployed where it is most needed - namely in the Lincoln Station area.  For
 more than ten years since Town Meeting approved the Comprehensive Long
 Range Plan, in which the revitalization of Lincoln Station was
 overwhelmingly one of the highest priorities, the area has lain dormant and
 in serious need of a catalyst to jumpstart its transformation into the
 compact,

Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center as part of the mall

2023-12-01 Thread Karla Gravis

Why would including the Community Center as part of the mall be a "project
killer"? We could sign a 10/20/30 year lease. Wouldn't a developer jump at
the chance to have a stable tenant instead of having to deal with constant
retail turnover? Or is this comment an indictment of the viability of any
commercial space at the Mall area?

According to the town's economic feasibility study, a developer could
consider charging ~$3 per sqft in monthly rent. For a 10,000 sqft CC, that
would mean $360K in yearly rent. Compare that to the town's yearly debt
service payment of $0.77M - $1.54M for the proposed CC designs.  The
savings come from the fact that public buildings are much more costly to
build than what private developments cost.

In relation to the argument that the CC cannot be in the mall area because
of LEAP, there is no need to have LEAP move to the mall. Remodeling Pod C
(where LEAP is currently hosted) has been estimated at $3.5M. The non-LEAP
portion of the community center designs being put to vote will be costing
the town $12.5M - $21.5M. If the annual cost of the community center is
$360k instead of $1M+, there will surely be some left to renovate LEAP.

To be clear, this is not Civico's plan for the mall. If Option C is chosen,
this synergistic combination will likely not happen. However, with Option
E, this could very much be part of the project presented to the Town. We
could tap TCB (The Community Builders - pun intended) to build a community
center and truly affordable housing.

>
> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 12:47 Paul Shorb  wrote:
>
>> The CCBC has an FAQ linked here
>> 
>>  that explains
>> why the community center should be located at Hartwell campus (as the Town
>> has voted to approve multiple times) rather than at the Mall.
>>
>> Putting a community center at the Town center would be much more
>> expensive, if it could be accomplished at all. As I noted in another
>> post just now, shared spaces are efficient, since (A) seniors tend to
>> use the facilities in the day and (B) school children do so in the later
>> afternoon, walking from the school buildings to participate in Lincoln's
>> Parks & Rec programs or LEAP.  Building a separate community center at
>> the town center would still leave the town with the need to renovate the
>> spaces that would remain at Hartwell; I have heard the estimate of about
>> $3.5 million for each of three pods at Hartwell.
>>
>> Also, I'm not sure how a community center at the Town center could
>> actually be achieved. The Town center does not have sufficient available
>> Town-owned space to build a community center. You therefore suggested 
>> including the
>> Community Center as a required accessory use in the development of a future
>> residential project at Lincoln Station. However, despite the rosy theory
>> provided by your urban planning contact, that sounds like a
>> project-killer to me.
>>
>> Dealing with climate change is a big motivator for me. That pushes me in
>> the direction of Option C, much more than getting a community center
>> somehow forced into a future development of the Mall. If I'm right that 
>> "required
>> accessory use" would be a project-killer, then we would thus not only
>> fail to get a community center built there, but also fail to get the
>> Mall redeveloped with higher-density near the rail stop and shopping,
>> which would be the biggest potential climate win here.
>>
>> Paul Shorb
>> (a member of the RLF Board but expressing my personal views here)
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 7:54 AM Ken Hurd  wrote:
>>
>>> Hello LincolnTalkers,
>>> With apologies for expressing yet again my strongly held opinion as an
>>> architect concerned with what we build in Lincoln, I want to remind
>>> everyone why I and many others believe we should not build a community
>>> center on the school campus.  I still believe it should be located in
>>> Lincoln Station, particularly now that our small commercial area is in play
>>> because of the Housing Choice Act.
>>>
>>> As I wrote last year, "I fully support building a new facility, but it
>>> has long been my opinion that such a major investment by the town should be
>>> deployed where it is most needed - namely in the Lincoln Station area.  For
>>> more than ten years since Town Meeting approved the Comprehensive Long
>>> Range Plan, in which the revitalization of Lincoln Station was
>>> overwhelmingly one of the highest priorities, the area has lain dormant and
>>> in serious need of a catalyst to jumpstart its transformation into the
>>> compact, vital, walkable village center that was a stated goal at the
>>> time.  A community center in such a location would be the equivalent of an
>>> anchor store in a retail setting, and by virtue of attracting more people
>>> on a regular basis, it would create more opportunities for a clustered
>>> cross-current of activities spawning greater

Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

Yes, the zoning by-law is a legal document. Specifically, a law.

Yes, the zoning can contain requirements on glazing.

In zoning there is always a tradeoff between writing very specific
requirements into the zoning and more flexible controls such as special
permits. The advantage to specific requirements for both the town and a
property owner is that everyone knows exactly what is required and exactly
what is permitted. The disadvantage is that any change requires a vote by
town meeting, and between the planning board's need to draft the change,
the legal review, the required public process, and the town meeting
schedule this takes at least a year. That's a long time if the town and the
board realizes that the regulations that seemed right at the time actually
aren't, as happened with our first pass at zoning regulations controlling
rooftop solar. For the lighting portion of our zoning the board started
with incorporating a set of standards into site plan review, gained some
experience, and then incorporated the lighting requirements into zoning
(via a vote at town meeting).

The advantage of a special permit process is it's more flexible. It gives
the town negotiating power as a special permit (as opposed to "by right")
can be withheld.

An example: on height the town could do any of the following in the zoning:
- specify an maximum height by right with no exceptions
- specify a maximum height by right with unspecified additional height
available by special permit from the planning board
- specify a maximum height by right with specific additional height
available by special permit from the planning board
- either of the above special permit processes with the special permit
power given to some other town board.

All of those options have their advantages and disadvantages.

On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 1:46 PM Robert Ahlert  wrote:

> Right, so Option C and D, when implemented in zoning by-law for March,
> will prevent a community center at the Village Center unless you
> explicitly add a clause to Zoning By-Law that forces that Zone to have 'x'%
> Sq Ft of ground floor that is not housing or parking.  Right now, the draft
> says 60-70% of the ground floor can be housing or parking so there would be
> no way to fit in a full grocery, bank, cleaners etc and a community center
> in these new buildings.  Plus no way a developer would choose this anyway
> because luxury housing is the most profitable.  They have to recoup their
> costs from the high sales price that RLF will command.
>
> Only option E would give us the time and flexibility we need for this
> complex project.  Then the town can hire a master planner/designer to come
> up with an integrated set of options that is more satisfactory to a broader
> set of its constituents.
>
> And per your other point regarding the design guidelines, are you saying
> that these guidelines (e.g. glazing) will be actually added to the zoning
> by-laws which I believe is a legal document?
>
> For the last time, I am not scare-mongering.  This is just a way of trying
> to discredit the analysis I have done.  I and many other volunteers are
> trying very hard to present to folks what is realistic instead of just
> assuming everything will be kittens and rainbows with Option C.  You have
> to look at the details!
>
> Rob Ahlert
>
> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 1:27 PM Margaret Olson 
> wrote:
>
>> Tomorrow we are voting on the approach to HCA compliance. At a very high
>> level answering the question: Where are we putting the multi-family housing
>> for HCA compliance? This is a "sense of the town" vote. No matter the
>> result of that vote we will not be compliant with the HCA after the vote
>> and we will not have zoning regulations that implement HCA compliance.
>>
>> In March we will vote on the zoning by-law. The zoning by-law will
>> implement the approach chosen on Saturday. The zoning by-law controls the
>> characteristics of the built environment. In addition to height, setback,
>> and story restrictions, zoning by-law specifies what uses are legal (e.g.
>> retail, residential, etc),  what glazing is required (e.g. no blank walls
>> facing the street), parking, the process by which projects are reviewed and
>> approved, inclusionary zoning, for mixed use buildings any restrictions on
>> where the commercial/retail activity is located and the amount of
>> commercial/retail space, and the design guidelines.
>>
>> If the zoning by-law presented at town meeting in March is not acceptable
>> to the town it will be voted down. The planning board will at that point
>> need to solicit additional feedback, adjust the proposed zoning, and try
>> again at a subsequent special town meeting.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 1:01 PM Robert Ahlert  wrote:
>>
>>> Then why are we having a binding vote tomorrow?
>>>
>>> I guess if we approve Option C, D tomorrow and they write the bylaws in
>>> such a way that prevents a community center, then we can vote down the
>>> whole package in

Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

Right, so Option C and D, when implemented in zoning by-law for March, will
prevent a community center at the Village Center unless you explicitly add
a clause to Zoning By-Law that forces that Zone to have 'x'% Sq Ft of
ground floor that is not housing or parking.  Right now, the draft says
60-70% of the ground floor can be housing or parking so there would be no
way to fit in a full grocery, bank, cleaners etc and a community center in
these new buildings.  Plus no way a developer would choose this anyway
because luxury housing is the most profitable.  They have to recoup their
costs from the high sales price that RLF will command.

Only option E would give us the time and flexibility we need for this
complex project.  Then the town can hire a master planner/designer to come
up with an integrated set of options that is more satisfactory to a broader
set of its constituents.

And per your other point regarding the design guidelines, are you saying
that these guidelines (e.g. glazing) will be actually added to the zoning
by-laws which I believe is a legal document?

For the last time, I am not scare-mongering.  This is just a way of trying
to discredit the analysis I have done.  I and many other volunteers are
trying very hard to present to folks what is realistic instead of just
assuming everything will be kittens and rainbows with Option C.  You have
to look at the details!

Rob Ahlert

On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 1:27 PM Margaret Olson  wrote:

> Tomorrow we are voting on the approach to HCA compliance. At a very high
> level answering the question: Where are we putting the multi-family housing
> for HCA compliance? This is a "sense of the town" vote. No matter the
> result of that vote we will not be compliant with the HCA after the vote
> and we will not have zoning regulations that implement HCA compliance.
>
> In March we will vote on the zoning by-law. The zoning by-law will
> implement the approach chosen on Saturday. The zoning by-law controls the
> characteristics of the built environment. In addition to height, setback,
> and story restrictions, zoning by-law specifies what uses are legal (e.g.
> retail, residential, etc),  what glazing is required (e.g. no blank walls
> facing the street), parking, the process by which projects are reviewed and
> approved, inclusionary zoning, for mixed use buildings any restrictions on
> where the commercial/retail activity is located and the amount of
> commercial/retail space, and the design guidelines.
>
> If the zoning by-law presented at town meeting in March is not acceptable
> to the town it will be voted down. The planning board will at that point
> need to solicit additional feedback, adjust the proposed zoning, and try
> again at a subsequent special town meeting.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 1:01 PM Robert Ahlert  wrote:
>
>> Then why are we having a binding vote tomorrow?
>>
>> I guess if we approve Option C, D tomorrow and they write the bylaws in
>> such a way that prevents a community center, then we can vote down the
>> whole package in March.
>>
>> Option C and D lock us in with HCA zoning on the mall which essentially
>> means no community center. How do you build a community center when a
>> developer will only want housing?
>>
>> Rob
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 12:56 PM DJCP  wrote:
>>
>>> What is she to confirm when nothing has been written or passed??? It's
>>> all drafts. People have been making this point over and over but it's
>>> easier to resort to scare tactics.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023, 12:54 PM Robert Ahlert  wrote:
>>>
 Let’s ask Margaret to confirm which parts of the zoning bylaws would
 prevent these large structures. As long as it meets the technical
 requirements of the zoning bylaws for that zone, it can be built.

 I watched them working on them the other night and did not see anything
 that would stop this.

 And don’t confuse the zoning bylaws with the site guidelines, which are
 just guidelines for developers to stay in the planning board’s good graces.
 Site guidelines don’t have teeth.

 Happy to be corrected, but these are the types of details that need to
 be explained clearly before we vote. People need to understand what they
 are voting for

 Rob

 On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 12:44 PM RAandBOB 
 wrote:

> You are ignoring the controls provided by the actual zoning bylaw for
> these new by-right parcels. This is just scaremongering.
> Ruth Ann
> (She, her, hers)
>
> On Dec 1, 2023, at 11:59 AM, Robert Ahlert 
> wrote:
>
> 
> Thanks for asking.
>
> What I want is a well thought out design process, which cannot happen
> with all of these points up in the air at the same time.
>
> We need more time. We have more time.
>
> I’m worried about large monolithic housing structures in the mall
> parking lot and eventually replacing Donelan’s and on the commuter rail
>

Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

There are a number of zoning controls that can control both the size of
buildings and their characteristics. We can do anything from a Texas style
free for all to a Nantucket style mono-style. I presume we will land
somewhere in the middle. We are currently discussing mandating both a
certain level of glazing and glazing transparency (i.e. no blank walls and
no papered or boxed over windows). The design guidelines will (I believe)
discuss articulation (i.e. edges; no long stretches of flat wall). Both the
Friends of Modern Architecture and several architects have already
volunteered to help get this aspect of the zoning right.

On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 12:55 PM Robert Ahlert  wrote:

> Let’s ask Margaret to confirm which parts of the zoning bylaws would
> prevent these large structures. As long as it meets the technical
> requirements of the zoning bylaws for that zone, it can be built.
>
> I watched them working on them the other night and did not see anything
> that would stop this.
>
> And don’t confuse the zoning bylaws with the site guidelines, which are
> just guidelines for developers to stay in the planning board’s good graces.
> Site guidelines don’t have teeth.
>
> Happy to be corrected, but these are the types of details that need to be
> explained clearly before we vote. People need to understand what they are
> voting for
>
> Rob
>
> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 12:44 PM RAandBOB  wrote:
>
>> You are ignoring the controls provided by the actual zoning bylaw for
>> these new by-right parcels. This is just scaremongering.
>> Ruth Ann
>> (She, her, hers)
>>
>> On Dec 1, 2023, at 11:59 AM, Robert Ahlert  wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Thanks for asking.
>>
>> What I want is a well thought out design process, which cannot happen
>> with all of these points up in the air at the same time.
>>
>> We need more time. We have more time.
>>
>> I’m worried about large monolithic housing structures in the mall parking
>> lot and eventually replacing Donelan’s and on the commuter rail parking lot
>> as well. And maybe even Doherty will have four stories with a special
>> permit from the planning board
>>
>> I just don’t see how this doesn’t happen once this property is HCA zoned
>> and turned over to a for profit developer
>>
>> They won’t want commercial, they won’t want a community center. All they
>> want is luxury housing and parking. And they will get exactly what they
>> want because these parcels are zoned as HCA and the zoning bylaws permit
>> without a special permit
>>
>> If you are in doubt or if you think we need more time, please vote for
>> option E
>>
>> Rob
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 11:43 AM DJCP  wrote:
>>
>>> Do you want a community center at the mall or do you want affordable
>>> housing and commercial space?  Can you please make up your mind?
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 10:08 AM Robert Ahlert 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Agreed, great idea!

 Only option E would allow community center at the Mall

 Else, RLF will sell to the highest bidder under HCA zoning for housing.

 Rob

 On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 9:57 AM Robert Hicks  wrote:

> I too support Ken Hurd's recommendation that the Community Center be
> included as part of the redevelopment of the Lincoln Station area.
>
> Please write in - "None of the Above" on the article at the Special
> Town meeting.
>
> --
> Bob Hicks
> rchi...@gmail.com
>
 --
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Browse the archives at
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
> Change your subscription settings at
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.


>
> --
 The LincolnTalk mailing list.
 To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
 Browse the archives at
 https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
 Change your subscription settings at
 https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.

 --
>> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
>> Browse the archives at
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
>> Change your subscription settings at
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>>
>> --
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> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/
> .
> Change your subscription settings at
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>
>
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

Tomorrow we are voting on the approach to HCA compliance. At a very high
level answering the question: Where are we putting the multi-family housing
for HCA compliance? This is a "sense of the town" vote. No matter the
result of that vote we will not be compliant with the HCA after the vote
and we will not have zoning regulations that implement HCA compliance.

In March we will vote on the zoning by-law. The zoning by-law will
implement the approach chosen on Saturday. The zoning by-law controls the
characteristics of the built environment. In addition to height, setback,
and story restrictions, zoning by-law specifies what uses are legal (e.g.
retail, residential, etc),  what glazing is required (e.g. no blank walls
facing the street), parking, the process by which projects are reviewed and
approved, inclusionary zoning, for mixed use buildings any restrictions on
where the commercial/retail activity is located and the amount of
commercial/retail space, and the design guidelines.

If the zoning by-law presented at town meeting in March is not acceptable
to the town it will be voted down. The planning board will at that point
need to solicit additional feedback, adjust the proposed zoning, and try
again at a subsequent special town meeting.

On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 1:01 PM Robert Ahlert  wrote:

> Then why are we having a binding vote tomorrow?
>
> I guess if we approve Option C, D tomorrow and they write the bylaws in
> such a way that prevents a community center, then we can vote down the
> whole package in March.
>
> Option C and D lock us in with HCA zoning on the mall which essentially
> means no community center. How do you build a community center when a
> developer will only want housing?
>
> Rob
>
> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 12:56 PM DJCP  wrote:
>
>> What is she to confirm when nothing has been written or passed??? It's
>> all drafts. People have been making this point over and over but it's
>> easier to resort to scare tactics.
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023, 12:54 PM Robert Ahlert  wrote:
>>
>>> Let’s ask Margaret to confirm which parts of the zoning bylaws would
>>> prevent these large structures. As long as it meets the technical
>>> requirements of the zoning bylaws for that zone, it can be built.
>>>
>>> I watched them working on them the other night and did not see anything
>>> that would stop this.
>>>
>>> And don’t confuse the zoning bylaws with the site guidelines, which are
>>> just guidelines for developers to stay in the planning board’s good graces.
>>> Site guidelines don’t have teeth.
>>>
>>> Happy to be corrected, but these are the types of details that need to
>>> be explained clearly before we vote. People need to understand what they
>>> are voting for
>>>
>>> Rob
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 12:44 PM RAandBOB  wrote:
>>>
 You are ignoring the controls provided by the actual zoning bylaw for
 these new by-right parcels. This is just scaremongering.
 Ruth Ann
 (She, her, hers)

 On Dec 1, 2023, at 11:59 AM, Robert Ahlert  wrote:

 Thanks for asking.

 What I want is a well thought out design process, which cannot happen
 with all of these points up in the air at the same time.

 We need more time. We have more time.

 I’m worried about large monolithic housing structures in the mall
 parking lot and eventually replacing Donelan’s and on the commuter rail
 parking lot as well. And maybe even Doherty will have four stories with a
 special permit from the planning board

 I just don’t see how this doesn’t happen once this property is HCA
 zoned and turned over to a for profit developer

 They won’t want commercial, they won’t want a community center. All
 they want is luxury housing and parking. And they will get exactly what
 they want because these parcels are zoned as HCA and the zoning bylaws
 permit without a special permit

 If you are in doubt or if you think we need more time, please vote for
 option E

 Rob

 On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 11:43 AM DJCP  wrote:

> Do you want a community center at the mall or do you want affordable
> housing and commercial space?  Can you please make up your mind?
>
> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 10:08 AM Robert Ahlert 
> wrote:
>
>> Agreed, great idea!
>>
>> Only option E would allow community center at the Mall
>>
>> Else, RLF will sell to the highest bidder under HCA zoning for
>> housing.
>>
>> Rob
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 9:57 AM Robert Hicks 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I too support Ken Hurd's recommendation that the Community Center be
>>> included as part of the redevelopment of the Lincoln Station area.
>>>
>>> Please write in - "None of the Above" on the article at the Special
>>> Town meeting.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Bob Hicks
>>> rchi...@gmail.com
>>>
>> --
>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list.

Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

Then why are we having a binding vote tomorrow?

I guess if we approve Option C, D tomorrow and they write the bylaws in
such a way that prevents a community center, then we can vote down the
whole package in March.

Option C and D lock us in with HCA zoning on the mall which essentially
means no community center. How do you build a community center when a
developer will only want housing?

Rob

On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 12:56 PM DJCP  wrote:

> What is she to confirm when nothing has been written or passed??? It's all
> drafts. People have been making this point over and over but it's easier to
> resort to scare tactics.
>
> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023, 12:54 PM Robert Ahlert  wrote:
>
>> Let’s ask Margaret to confirm which parts of the zoning bylaws would
>> prevent these large structures. As long as it meets the technical
>> requirements of the zoning bylaws for that zone, it can be built.
>>
>> I watched them working on them the other night and did not see anything
>> that would stop this.
>>
>> And don’t confuse the zoning bylaws with the site guidelines, which are
>> just guidelines for developers to stay in the planning board’s good graces.
>> Site guidelines don’t have teeth.
>>
>> Happy to be corrected, but these are the types of details that need to be
>> explained clearly before we vote. People need to understand what they are
>> voting for
>>
>> Rob
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 12:44 PM RAandBOB  wrote:
>>
>>> You are ignoring the controls provided by the actual zoning bylaw for
>>> these new by-right parcels. This is just scaremongering.
>>> Ruth Ann
>>> (She, her, hers)
>>>
>>> On Dec 1, 2023, at 11:59 AM, Robert Ahlert  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> Thanks for asking.
>>>
>>> What I want is a well thought out design process, which cannot happen
>>> with all of these points up in the air at the same time.
>>>
>>> We need more time. We have more time.
>>>
>>> I’m worried about large monolithic housing structures in the mall
>>> parking lot and eventually replacing Donelan’s and on the commuter rail
>>> parking lot as well. And maybe even Doherty will have four stories with a
>>> special permit from the planning board
>>>
>>> I just don’t see how this doesn’t happen once this property is HCA zoned
>>> and turned over to a for profit developer
>>>
>>> They won’t want commercial, they won’t want a community center. All they
>>> want is luxury housing and parking. And they will get exactly what they
>>> want because these parcels are zoned as HCA and the zoning bylaws permit
>>> without a special permit
>>>
>>> If you are in doubt or if you think we need more time, please vote for
>>> option E
>>>
>>> Rob
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 11:43 AM DJCP  wrote:
>>>
 Do you want a community center at the mall or do you want affordable
 housing and commercial space?  Can you please make up your mind?

 On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 10:08 AM Robert Ahlert 
 wrote:

> Agreed, great idea!
>
> Only option E would allow community center at the Mall
>
> Else, RLF will sell to the highest bidder under HCA zoning for housing.
>
> Rob
>
> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 9:57 AM Robert Hicks  wrote:
>
>> I too support Ken Hurd's recommendation that the Community Center be
>> included as part of the redevelopment of the Lincoln Station area.
>>
>> Please write in - "None of the Above" on the article at the Special
>> Town meeting.
>>
>> --
>> Bob Hicks
>> rchi...@gmail.com
>>
> --
>> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
>> Browse the archives at
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
>> Change your subscription settings at
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>
>
>>
>> --
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Browse the archives at
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
> Change your subscription settings at
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>
> --
>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
>>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
>>> Browse the archives at
>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
>>> Change your subscription settings at
>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>>>
>>>
-- 
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

2023-12-01 Thread DJCP

What is she to confirm when nothing has been written or passed??? It's all
drafts. People have been making this point over and over but it's easier to
resort to scare tactics.

On Fri, Dec 1, 2023, 12:54 PM Robert Ahlert  wrote:

> Let’s ask Margaret to confirm which parts of the zoning bylaws would
> prevent these large structures. As long as it meets the technical
> requirements of the zoning bylaws for that zone, it can be built.
>
> I watched them working on them the other night and did not see anything
> that would stop this.
>
> And don’t confuse the zoning bylaws with the site guidelines, which are
> just guidelines for developers to stay in the planning board’s good graces.
> Site guidelines don’t have teeth.
>
> Happy to be corrected, but these are the types of details that need to be
> explained clearly before we vote. People need to understand what they are
> voting for
>
> Rob
>
> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 12:44 PM RAandBOB  wrote:
>
>> You are ignoring the controls provided by the actual zoning bylaw for
>> these new by-right parcels. This is just scaremongering.
>> Ruth Ann
>> (She, her, hers)
>>
>> On Dec 1, 2023, at 11:59 AM, Robert Ahlert  wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Thanks for asking.
>>
>> What I want is a well thought out design process, which cannot happen
>> with all of these points up in the air at the same time.
>>
>> We need more time. We have more time.
>>
>> I’m worried about large monolithic housing structures in the mall parking
>> lot and eventually replacing Donelan’s and on the commuter rail parking lot
>> as well. And maybe even Doherty will have four stories with a special
>> permit from the planning board
>>
>> I just don’t see how this doesn’t happen once this property is HCA zoned
>> and turned over to a for profit developer
>>
>> They won’t want commercial, they won’t want a community center. All they
>> want is luxury housing and parking. And they will get exactly what they
>> want because these parcels are zoned as HCA and the zoning bylaws permit
>> without a special permit
>>
>> If you are in doubt or if you think we need more time, please vote for
>> option E
>>
>> Rob
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 11:43 AM DJCP  wrote:
>>
>>> Do you want a community center at the mall or do you want affordable
>>> housing and commercial space?  Can you please make up your mind?
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 10:08 AM Robert Ahlert 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Agreed, great idea!

 Only option E would allow community center at the Mall

 Else, RLF will sell to the highest bidder under HCA zoning for housing.

 Rob

 On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 9:57 AM Robert Hicks  wrote:

> I too support Ken Hurd's recommendation that the Community Center be
> included as part of the redevelopment of the Lincoln Station area.
>
> Please write in - "None of the Above" on the article at the Special
> Town meeting.
>
> --
> Bob Hicks
> rchi...@gmail.com
>
 --
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Browse the archives at
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
> Change your subscription settings at
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.


>
> --
 The LincolnTalk mailing list.
 To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
 Browse the archives at
 https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
 Change your subscription settings at
 https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.

 --
>> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
>> Browse the archives at
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
>> Change your subscription settings at
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>>
>>
-- 
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Change your subscription settings at 
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

Let’s ask Margaret to confirm which parts of the zoning bylaws would
prevent these large structures. As long as it meets the technical
requirements of the zoning bylaws for that zone, it can be built.

I watched them working on them the other night and did not see anything
that would stop this.

And don’t confuse the zoning bylaws with the site guidelines, which are
just guidelines for developers to stay in the planning board’s good graces.
Site guidelines don’t have teeth.

Happy to be corrected, but these are the types of details that need to be
explained clearly before we vote. People need to understand what they are
voting for

Rob

On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 12:44 PM RAandBOB  wrote:

> You are ignoring the controls provided by the actual zoning bylaw for
> these new by-right parcels. This is just scaremongering.
> Ruth Ann
> (She, her, hers)
>
> On Dec 1, 2023, at 11:59 AM, Robert Ahlert  wrote:
>
> 
> Thanks for asking.
>
> What I want is a well thought out design process, which cannot happen with
> all of these points up in the air at the same time.
>
> We need more time. We have more time.
>
> I’m worried about large monolithic housing structures in the mall parking
> lot and eventually replacing Donelan’s and on the commuter rail parking lot
> as well. And maybe even Doherty will have four stories with a special
> permit from the planning board
>
> I just don’t see how this doesn’t happen once this property is HCA zoned
> and turned over to a for profit developer
>
> They won’t want commercial, they won’t want a community center. All they
> want is luxury housing and parking. And they will get exactly what they
> want because these parcels are zoned as HCA and the zoning bylaws permit
> without a special permit
>
> If you are in doubt or if you think we need more time, please vote for
> option E
>
> Rob
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 11:43 AM DJCP  wrote:
>
>> Do you want a community center at the mall or do you want affordable
>> housing and commercial space?  Can you please make up your mind?
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 10:08 AM Robert Ahlert 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Agreed, great idea!
>>>
>>> Only option E would allow community center at the Mall
>>>
>>> Else, RLF will sell to the highest bidder under HCA zoning for housing.
>>>
>>> Rob
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 9:57 AM Robert Hicks  wrote:
>>>
 I too support Ken Hurd's recommendation that the Community Center be
 included as part of the redevelopment of the Lincoln Station area.

 Please write in - "None of the Above" on the article at the Special
 Town meeting.

 --
 Bob Hicks
 rchi...@gmail.com

>>> --
 The LincolnTalk mailing list.
 To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
 Browse the archives at
 https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
 Change your subscription settings at
 https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>>>
>>>

 --
>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
>>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
>>> Browse the archives at
>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
>>> Change your subscription settings at
>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>>>
>>> --
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/
> .
> Change your subscription settings at
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>
>
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

2023-12-01 Thread Paul Shorb

The CCBC has an FAQ linked here

that explains
why the community center should be located at Hartwell campus (as the Town
has voted to approve multiple times) rather than at the Mall.

Putting a community center at the Town center would be much more expensive,
if it could be accomplished at all. As I noted in another post just now, shared
spaces are efficient, since (A) seniors tend to use the facilities in the
day and (B) school children do so in the later afternoon, walking from the
school buildings to participate in Lincoln's Parks & Rec programs or
LEAP.  Building
a separate community center at the town center would still leave the town
with the need to renovate the spaces that would remain at Hartwell; I have
heard the estimate of about $3.5 million for each of three pods at Hartwell.

Also, I'm not sure how a community center at the Town center could actually
be achieved. The Town center does not have sufficient available Town-owned
space to build a community center. You therefore suggested including the
Community Center as a required accessory use in the development of a future
residential project at Lincoln Station. However, despite the rosy theory
provided by your urban planning contact, that sounds like a project-killer
to me.

Dealing with climate change is a big motivator for me. That pushes me in
the direction of Option C, much more than getting a community center
somehow forced into a future development of the Mall. If I'm right
that "required
accessory use" would be a project-killer, then we would thus not only fail
to get a community center built there, but also fail to get the
Mall redeveloped with higher-density near the rail stop and shopping, which
would be the biggest potential climate win here.

Paul Shorb
(a member of the RLF Board but expressing my personal views here)

On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 7:54 AM Ken Hurd  wrote:

> Hello LincolnTalkers,
> With apologies for expressing yet again my strongly held opinion as an
> architect concerned with what we build in Lincoln, I want to remind
> everyone why I and many others believe we should not build a community
> center on the school campus.  I still believe it should be located in
> Lincoln Station, particularly now that our small commercial area is in play
> because of the Housing Choice Act.
>
> As I wrote last year, "I fully support building a new facility, but it
> has long been my opinion that such a major investment by the town should be
> deployed where it is most needed - namely in the Lincoln Station area.  For
> more than ten years since Town Meeting approved the Comprehensive Long
> Range Plan, in which the revitalization of Lincoln Station was
> overwhelmingly one of the highest priorities, the area has lain dormant and
> in serious need of a catalyst to jumpstart its transformation into the
> compact, vital, walkable village center that was a stated goal at the
> time.  A community center in such a location would be the equivalent of an
> anchor store in a retail setting, and by virtue of attracting more people
> on a regular basis, it would create more opportunities for a clustered
> cross-current of activities spawning greater social interaction."
>
> As many will recall at last year’s Town Meeting, there was serious concern
> about the cost to build it, and I am of the opinion that there are better
> ways to accomplish this than spending anywhere from $18 to $24 million of
> taxpayer money to do so.  As was recently suggested to me by an experienced
> urban planner, why not include the Community Center as a required
> accessory use in the development of a future residential project at
> Lincoln Station?
>
> As he said, “With clear program requirements and project parameters to
> guide the design of a new project, developers can be very efficient in
> realizing a good project on time and within budget.” Moreover, “It would
> be a plus to any potential developer's proforma to have a confirmed tenant
> (assuming COA long-term lease) for … an active community use in purposely
> designed ground level space. This strategy would minimize the cost to
> Lincoln upfront financing for design and construction, replace public
> project inefficiencies with professional development expertise, and as such
> the new Community Center facility may be more affordable to the town's
> stressed taxpayers."
>
> As I also wrote last year, I believe  it would constitute the classic
> suburban planning error to create a new facility that stands alone at the
> school and, like the suburban mall, accessible only by car.  In addition,
> because of school protocols, there would be very limited inter-generational
> co-mingling until after school hours, if at all.  And, even if there
> weren’t a greater  awareness about the effects of climate change, wouldn’t
> it make far more sense to locate a community center where there are already
> other crucial

Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

Wait, if the RLF 4 acres is rezoned HCA, then wouldn’t it be sold to a
private developer?

Do you think that they would create a rental space that might then be
utilized for COA activities?  Is that what you were suggesting would happen
Margaret?

Just trying to understand how we can make this happen.

Maybe the commuter rail lot would be better for this?

Rob

On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 12:05 PM Lynne Smith  wrote:

> Thank you for the clarification, Margaret.
>
> Lynne Smith
> 5 Tabor Hill Road
> Lincoln, MA 01773
> cell:  781-258-1175
> ly...@smith.net
>
>
>
> On Dec 1, 2023, at 11:52 AM, Margaret Olson  wrote:
>
> There is nothing that would prevent the RLF from providing or preserving
> the option of community center space.  And, since it would likely be a
> long-term lease arrangement, it would spread the cost over the life of the
> lease with the upfront construction costs borne by the developer.
>
> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 10:44 AM Lynne Smith  wrote:
>
>> Option E is the only HCA option that would allow us to think about
>> including the Community Center at the Mall.
>>
>> Lynne Smith
>> 5 Tabor Hill Road
>> Lincoln, MA 01773
>> cell:  781-258-1175
>> ly...@smith.net
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 1, 2023, at 8:53 AM, Jane Appell  wrote:
>>
>> Ken,
>>
>> You make a great point. The community center and housing zoning came up
>> at different times as separate issues. But,  For good planning and to
>> provide the most benefit to the town as we would like to see it, it makes
>> sense to look at them both together while we have the chance.
>>
>> Jane
>>
>>
>> Jane Appell, Ph.D.
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Dec 1, 2023, at 7:54 AM, Ken Hurd  wrote:
>>
>> Hello LincolnTalkers,
>> With apologies for expressing yet again my strongly held opinion as an
>> architect concerned with what we build in Lincoln, I want to remind
>> everyone why I and many others believe we should not build a community
>> center on the school campus.  I still believe it should be located in
>> Lincoln Station, particularly now that our small commercial area is in play
>> because of the Housing Choice Act.
>>
>> As I wrote last year, "I fully support building a new facility, but it
>> has long been my opinion that such a major investment by the town should be
>> deployed where it is most needed - namely in the Lincoln Station area.  For
>> more than ten years since Town Meeting approved the Comprehensive Long
>> Range Plan, in which the revitalization of Lincoln Station was
>> overwhelmingly one of the highest priorities, the area has lain dormant and
>> in serious need of a catalyst to jumpstart its transformation into the
>> compact, vital, walkable village center that was a stated goal at the
>> time.  A community center in such a location would be the equivalent of an
>> anchor store in a retail setting, and by virtue of attracting more people
>> on a regular basis, it would create more opportunities for a clustered
>> cross-current of activities spawning greater social interaction."
>>
>> As many will recall at last year’s Town Meeting, there was serious
>> concern about the cost to build it, and I am of the opinion that there are
>> better ways to accomplish this than spending anywhere from $18 to $24
>> million of taxpayer money to do so.  As was recently suggested to me by an
>> experienced urban planner, why not include the Community Center as a
>> required accessory use in the development of a future residential
>> project at Lincoln Station?
>>
>> As he said, “With clear program requirements and project parameters to
>> guide the design of a new project, developers can be very efficient in
>> realizing a good project on time and within budget.” Moreover, “It would
>> be a plus to any potential developer's proforma to have a confirmed tenant
>> (assuming COA long-term lease) for … an active community use in purposely
>> designed ground level space. This strategy would minimize the cost to
>> Lincoln upfront financing for design and construction, replace public
>> project inefficiencies with professional development expertise, and as such
>> the new Community Center facility may be more affordable to the town's
>> stressed taxpayers."
>>
>> As I also wrote last year, I believe  it would constitute the classic
>> suburban planning error to create a new facility that stands alone at the
>> school and, like the suburban mall, accessible only by car.  In addition,
>> because of school protocols, there would be very limited inter-generational
>> co-mingling until after school hours, if at all.  And, even if there
>> weren’t a greater  awareness about the effects of climate change, wouldn’t
>> it make far more sense to locate a community center where there are already
>> other crucial services such as the post office, grocery store, cleaners, a
>> cafe and restaurant, not to mention the potential for more housing?
>>
>> Earlier this week I wrote the Selects about including an option to vote
>> for “None of the Above” at tomorrow’s Town

Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

2023-12-01 Thread RAandBOB

You are ignoring the controls provided by the actual zoning bylaw for these new by-right parcels. This is just scaremongering.Ruth Ann(She, her, hers)On Dec 1, 2023, at 11:59 AM, Robert Ahlert wrote:Thanks for asking.What I want is a well thought out design process, which cannot happen with all of these points up in the air at the same time.We need more time. We have more time.I’m worried about large monolithic housing structures in the mall parking lot and eventually replacing Donelan’s and on the commuter rail parking lot as well. And maybe even Doherty will have four stories with a special permit from the planning boardI just don’t see how this doesn’t happen once this property is HCA zoned and turned over to a for profit developerThey won’t want commercial, they won’t want a community center. All they want is luxury housing and parking. And they will get exactly what they want because these parcels are zoned as HCA and the zoning bylaws permit without a special permitIf you are in doubt or if you think we need more time, please vote for option ERobOn Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 11:43 AM DJCP wrote:Do you want a community center at the mall or do you want affordable housing and commercial space? Can you please make up your mind? On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 10:08 AM Robert Ahlert wrote:Agreed, great idea!Only option E would allow community center at the MallElse, RLF will sell to the highest bidder under HCA zoning for housing.RobOn Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 9:57 AM Robert Hicks wrote:I too support Ken Hurd's recommendation that the Community Center be included as part of the redevelopment of the Lincoln Station area.Please write in - "None of the Above" on the article at the Special Town meeting.-- Bob Hicksrchi...@gmail.com
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

The owner of the mall property is the RLF, not Civico.


On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 12:36 PM ٍSarah Postlethwait 
wrote:

> There are already 4 story buildings being proposed at the mall to be able
> to fit the 100 units Civico is insisting on… the only way the mall could
> add a community center is if another floor was added, making it 5 stories.
>
> At what point do we say that’s enough?
>
> Sarah Postlethwait
> Lewis Street
>
> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 11:53 AM Margaret Olson 
> wrote:
>
>> There is nothing that would prevent the RLF from providing or preserving
>> the option of community center space.  And, since it would likely be a
>> long-term lease arrangement, it would spread the cost over the life of the
>> lease with the upfront construction costs borne by the developer.
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 10:44 AM Lynne Smith  wrote:
>>
>>> Option E is the only HCA option that would allow us to think about
>>> including the Community Center at the Mall.
>>>
>>> Lynne Smith
>>> 5 Tabor Hill Road
>>> 
>>> Lincoln, MA 01773
>>> 
>>> cell:  781-258-1175
>>> ly...@smith.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 1, 2023, at 8:53 AM, Jane Appell  wrote:
>>>
>>> Ken,
>>>
>>> You make a great point. The community center and housing zoning came up
>>> at different times as separate issues. But,  For good planning and to
>>> provide the most benefit to the town as we would like to see it, it makes
>>> sense to look at them both together while we have the chance.
>>>
>>> Jane
>>>
>>>
>>> Jane Appell, Ph.D.
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On Dec 1, 2023, at 7:54 AM, Ken Hurd  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello LincolnTalkers,
>>> With apologies for expressing yet again my strongly held opinion as an
>>> architect concerned with what we build in Lincoln, I want to remind
>>> everyone why I and many others believe we should not build a community
>>> center on the school campus.  I still believe it should be located in
>>> Lincoln Station, particularly now that our small commercial area is in play
>>> because of the Housing Choice Act.
>>>
>>> As I wrote last year, "I fully support building a new facility, but it
>>> has long been my opinion that such a major investment by the town should be
>>> deployed where it is most needed - namely in the Lincoln Station area.  For
>>> more than ten years since Town Meeting approved the Comprehensive Long
>>> Range Plan, in which the revitalization of Lincoln Station was
>>> overwhelmingly one of the highest priorities, the area has lain dormant and
>>> in serious need of a catalyst to jumpstart its transformation into the
>>> compact, vital, walkable village center that was a stated goal at the
>>> time.  A community center in such a location would be the equivalent of an
>>> anchor store in a retail setting, and by virtue of attracting more people
>>> on a regular basis, it would create more opportunities for a clustered
>>> cross-current of activities spawning greater social interaction."
>>>
>>> As many will recall at last year’s Town Meeting, there was serious
>>> concern about the cost to build it, and I am of the opinion that there are
>>> better ways to accomplish this than spending anywhere from $18 to $24
>>> million of taxpayer money to do so.  As was recently suggested to me by an
>>> experienced urban planner, why not include the Community Center as a
>>> required accessory use in the development of a future residential
>>> project at Lincoln Station?
>>>
>>> As he said, “With clear program requirements and project parameters to
>>> guide the design of a new project, developers can be very efficient in
>>> realizing a good project on time and within budget.” Moreover, “It
>>> would be a plus to any potential developer's proforma to have a confirmed
>>> tenant (assuming COA long-term lease) for … an active community use in
>>> purposely designed ground level space. This strategy would minimize the
>>> cost to Lincoln upfront financing for design and construction, replace
>>> public project inefficiencies with professional development expertise, and
>>> as such the new Community Center facility may be more affordable to the
>>> town's stressed taxpayers."
>>>
>>> As I also wrote last year, I believe  it would constitute the classic
>>> suburban planning error to create a new facility that stands alone at the
>>> school and, like the suburban mall, accessible only by car.  In addition,
>>> because of school protocols, there would be very limited inter-generational
>>> co-mingling until after school hours, if at all.  And, even if there
>>> weren’t a greater  awareness about the effects of climate change, wouldn’t
>>> it make far more sense to locate a community center where there are already
>>> other crucial services such as the post office, grocery store, cleaners, a
>>> cafe and restaurant, not to mention the potential for more

Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

2023-12-01 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait

There are already 4 story buildings being proposed at the mall to be able
to fit the 100 units Civico is insisting on… the only way the mall could
add a community center is if another floor was added, making it 5 stories.

At what point do we say that’s enough?

Sarah Postlethwait
Lewis Street

On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 11:53 AM Margaret Olson 
wrote:

> There is nothing that would prevent the RLF from providing or preserving
> the option of community center space.  And, since it would likely be a
> long-term lease arrangement, it would spread the cost over the life of the
> lease with the upfront construction costs borne by the developer.
>
> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 10:44 AM Lynne Smith  wrote:
>
>> Option E is the only HCA option that would allow us to think about
>> including the Community Center at the Mall.
>>
>> Lynne Smith
>> 5 Tabor Hill Road
>> 
>> Lincoln, MA 01773
>> 
>> cell:  781-258-1175
>> ly...@smith.net
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 1, 2023, at 8:53 AM, Jane Appell  wrote:
>>
>> Ken,
>>
>> You make a great point. The community center and housing zoning came up
>> at different times as separate issues. But,  For good planning and to
>> provide the most benefit to the town as we would like to see it, it makes
>> sense to look at them both together while we have the chance.
>>
>> Jane
>>
>>
>> Jane Appell, Ph.D.
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Dec 1, 2023, at 7:54 AM, Ken Hurd  wrote:
>>
>> Hello LincolnTalkers,
>> With apologies for expressing yet again my strongly held opinion as an
>> architect concerned with what we build in Lincoln, I want to remind
>> everyone why I and many others believe we should not build a community
>> center on the school campus.  I still believe it should be located in
>> Lincoln Station, particularly now that our small commercial area is in play
>> because of the Housing Choice Act.
>>
>> As I wrote last year, "I fully support building a new facility, but it
>> has long been my opinion that such a major investment by the town should be
>> deployed where it is most needed - namely in the Lincoln Station area.  For
>> more than ten years since Town Meeting approved the Comprehensive Long
>> Range Plan, in which the revitalization of Lincoln Station was
>> overwhelmingly one of the highest priorities, the area has lain dormant and
>> in serious need of a catalyst to jumpstart its transformation into the
>> compact, vital, walkable village center that was a stated goal at the
>> time.  A community center in such a location would be the equivalent of an
>> anchor store in a retail setting, and by virtue of attracting more people
>> on a regular basis, it would create more opportunities for a clustered
>> cross-current of activities spawning greater social interaction."
>>
>> As many will recall at last year’s Town Meeting, there was serious
>> concern about the cost to build it, and I am of the opinion that there are
>> better ways to accomplish this than spending anywhere from $18 to $24
>> million of taxpayer money to do so.  As was recently suggested to me by an
>> experienced urban planner, why not include the Community Center as a
>> required accessory use in the development of a future residential
>> project at Lincoln Station?
>>
>> As he said, “With clear program requirements and project parameters to
>> guide the design of a new project, developers can be very efficient in
>> realizing a good project on time and within budget.” Moreover, “It would
>> be a plus to any potential developer's proforma to have a confirmed tenant
>> (assuming COA long-term lease) for … an active community use in purposely
>> designed ground level space. This strategy would minimize the cost to
>> Lincoln upfront financing for design and construction, replace public
>> project inefficiencies with professional development expertise, and as such
>> the new Community Center facility may be more affordable to the town's
>> stressed taxpayers."
>>
>> As I also wrote last year, I believe  it would constitute the classic
>> suburban planning error to create a new facility that stands alone at the
>> school and, like the suburban mall, accessible only by car.  In addition,
>> because of school protocols, there would be very limited inter-generational
>> co-mingling until after school hours, if at all.  And, even if there
>> weren’t a greater  awareness about the effects of climate change, wouldn’t
>> it make far more sense to locate a community center where there are already
>> other crucial services such as the post office, grocery store, cleaners, a
>> cafe and restaurant, not to mention the potential for more housing?
>>
>> Earlier this week I wrote the Selects about including an option to vote
>> for “None of the Above” at tomorrow’s Town Meeting.  Absent any response, I
>> plan to vote for Option 3 ($12.5 million project cost)

Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

2023-12-01 Thread Paul Shorb

LEAP will not be moved 2/3 mile down the road; in any of the Hartwell-based
community center plan options, it will remain at the existing Hartwell
campus. Thus children will continue to be able to walk from school, as they
do now, to after-school programs run by the Town Parks & Rec Dept or to
LEAP daycare.

Those programs obviously need to remain at the Hartwell campus. If we don't
build the community center there, we'll still need to renovate
the old Hartwell pods for their current uses. I have heard an estimate of
$3.5 million per pod for each of those three pods (perhaps someone on
the CCBC could confirm). So among other considerations, there is a great
cost efficiency in remaking the Hartwell campus so it can both serve those
functions and the additional functions that have been proposed for an
inter-generational community center.

Paul Shorb
(on the RLF Board, but providing my personal view here)

On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 11:31 AM V Saleme  wrote:

> Perhaps this has been discussed however and should LEAP be moved 2/3 of a
> mile down the road, how do we propose getting the children from the school
> to there as opposed to walking or being chaperoned (by staff) to current
> facility?
>
> VS
> —-
>
> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 11:17 AM John Mendelson 
> wrote:
>
>> The myriad reasons why the Community Center (remember it is planned to
>> accommodate the COA, LEAP, and Parks & Rec) should NOT be located at the
>> mall have been well documented by the folks who've worked on the community
>> center plans for almost a decade.  The location at the Hartwells ie right
>> in the middle of our "institutional core" and easily accessible by walking,
>> biking, or driving.
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 10:20 AM Robert Hicks  wrote:
>>
>>> point well made
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 10:03 AM Robert Ahlert 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Agreed, great idea!

 Only option E would allow community center at the Mall

 Else, RLF will sell to the highest bidder under HCA zoning for housing.

 Rob

 On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 9:57 AM Robert Hicks  wrote:

> I too support Ken Hurd's recommendation that the Community Center be
> included as part of the redevelopment of the Lincoln Station area.
>
> Please write in - "None of the Above" on the article at the Special
> Town meeting.
>
> --
> Bob Hicks
> rchi...@gmail.com
> --
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Browse the archives at
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
> Change your subscription settings at
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>
>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Bob Hicks
>>> rchi...@gmail.com
>>> --
>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
>>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
>>> Browse the archives at
>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
>>> Change your subscription settings at
>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>>>
>>> --
>> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
>> Browse the archives at
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
>> Change your subscription settings at
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>>
>> --
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> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/
> .
> Change your subscription settings at
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>
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

2023-12-01 Thread Barbara Low

Thank you.

From: Lincoln  on behalf of John Mendelson 

Sent: Friday, December 1, 2023 11:17 AM
To: Robert Hicks 
Cc: Lincoln Talk 
Subject: Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

The myriad reasons why the Community Center (remember it is planned to 
accommodate the COA, LEAP, and Parks & Rec) should NOT be located at the mall 
have been well documented by the folks who've worked on the community center 
plans for almost a decade.  The location at the Hartwells ie right in the 
middle of our "institutional core" and easily accessible by walking, biking, or 
driving.

On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 10:20 AM Robert Hicks 
mailto:rchi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
point well made

On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 10:03 AM Robert Ahlert 
mailto:robahl...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Agreed, great idea!

Only option E would allow community center at the Mall

Else, RLF will sell to the highest bidder under HCA zoning for housing.

Rob

On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 9:57 AM Robert Hicks 
mailto:rchi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I too support Ken Hurd's recommendation that the Community Center be included 
as part of the redevelopment of the Lincoln Station area.

Please write in - "None of the Above" on the article at the Special Town 
meeting.

--
Bob Hicks
rchi...@gmail.com<mailto:rchi...@gmail.com>
--
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rchi...@gmail.com<mailto:rchi...@gmail.com>
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

2023-12-01 Thread Lynn DeLisi, M.D. via Lincoln

 Dear Ken,I totally agree with you. The more I see of the details for having a 
Community Center built on the school site, the more I see this as the wrong 
choice.I want the Town to have a Community Center, particularly to improve the 
space for seniors, but the school campus will not allow this because it needs 
to serve supplementary school programs as well there, such as an after school 
daycare program. The Traffic problem will lead to safety issues. Among many 
other reasons, the Lincoln station area is the better location. Why talk about 
putting housing units on the commuter lot when a community center could be 
there, if it is not going to be used for the commuter lot? There are other 
nearby possibilities as well that have not been looked at extensively.
But the vote tomorrow does not allow for a "none of these choices". So how do 
we see that this message is heard?The vote will look like the Town wants one of 
the 3!Why waste the architect's time from now until March?
Lynn DeLisiSouth Great Road On Friday, December 1, 2023 at 07:54:44 AM EST, 
Ken Hurd  wrote:  
 
 Hello LincolnTalkers,With apologies for expressing yet again my strongly held 
opinion as an architect concerned with what we build in Lincoln, I want to 
remind everyone why I and many others believe we should not build a community 
center on the school campus.  I still believe it should be located in Lincoln 
Station, particularly now that our small commercial area is in play because of 
the Housing Choice Act.
As I wrote last year, "I fully support building a new facility, but it has long 
been my opinion that such a major investment by the town should be deployed 
where it is most needed - namely in the Lincoln Station area.  For more than 
ten years since Town Meeting approved the Comprehensive Long Range Plan, in 
which the revitalization of Lincoln Station was overwhelmingly one of the 
highest priorities, the area has lain dormant and in serious need of a catalyst 
to jumpstart its transformation into the compact, vital, walkable village 
center that was a stated goal at the time.  A community center in such a 
location would be the equivalent of an anchor store in a retail setting, and by 
virtue of attracting more people on a regular basis, it would create more 
opportunities for a clustered cross-current of activities spawning greater 
social interaction."  
As many will recall at last year’s Town Meeting, there was serious concern 
about the cost to build it, and I am of the opinion that there are better ways 
to accomplish this than spending anywhere from $18 to $24 million of taxpayer 
money to do so.  As was recently suggested to me by an experienced urban 
planner, why not include the Community Center as a required accessory use in 
the development of a future residential project at Lincoln Station?   
As he said, “With clear program requirements and project parameters to guide 
the design of a new project, developers can be very efficient in realizing a 
good project on time and within budget.” Moreover, “It would be a plus to any 
potential developer's proforma to have a confirmed tenant (assuming COA 
long-term lease) for … an active community use in purposely designed ground 
level space. This strategy would minimize the cost to Lincoln upfront financing 
for design and construction, replace public project inefficiencies with 
professional development expertise, and as such the new Community Center 
facility may be more affordable to the town's stressed taxpayers."
As I also wrote last year, I believe  it would constitute the classic suburban 
planning error to create a new facility that stands alone at the school and, 
like the suburban mall, accessible only by car.  In addition, because of school 
protocols, there would be very limited inter-generational co-mingling until 
after school hours, if at all.  And, even if there weren’t a greater  awareness 
about the effects of climate change, wouldn’t it make far more sense to locate 
a community center where there are already other crucial services such as the 
post office, grocery store, cleaners, a cafe and restaurant, not to mention the 
potential for more housing?  
Earlier this week I wrote the Selects about including an option to vote for 
“None of the Above” at tomorrow’s Town Meeting.  Absent any response, I plan to 
vote for Option 3 ($12.5 million project cost) that has already been 
characterized as not sufficient to provide services comparable to what we 
already have at Bemis.
Please join me in rejecting the more expensive options 1 and 2 in order to 
redirect our efforts to take advantage of this moment in time to be far more 
creative, innovative and holistic in how we design and fund a Community Center 
that can also help transform Lincoln Station to its full potential as a truly 
vital, walkable village center.  Remember,

      we humans shape our environments at a moment in time, 

and then they shape us for decades to come.

Respectfully,Ken

Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

2023-12-01 Thread Tony Liepert

Hi All,
I've been reading with great interest the discussion about locating the
Community Center at the Mall (Town Center).

My take on this opportunity is different but aligns with comments that
Peter Buchtal has made several times on LT.

I've never understood, nor bought the argument, that LEAP, Parks and Rec
(PR), and Council on Aging (COA) should all be co-located, and would
benefit from being co-located. I also agree with Ken Hurd about suburban
architecture mistakes that require a car for access.

With the recent revelation that mixed-use development could count towards
HCA requirements, a re-examination of that basic assumption is warranted.

LEAP, and Parks and Rec, should stay on the school campus. They operate
independently of COA and would continue to do so.

COA should be located at the Mall and would become an anchor tenant there.
Seniors attending COA activities at the Mall could also do their shopping,
banking, eating, etc, thereby supporting the commercial tenants at the
Mall. If the Mall buildout is done correctly, seniors would be drawn to
down-sizing to the Mall area, freeing up their larger houses (and yards!)
to new families in town.

Seniors also have fewer cars, and don't drive them during rush hours.

Comments welcome,
Tony

On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 11:19 AM John Mendelson 
wrote:

> The myriad reasons why the Community Center (remember it is planned to
> accommodate the COA, LEAP, and Parks & Rec) should NOT be located at the
> mall have been well documented by the folks who've worked on the community
> center plans for almost a decade.  The location at the Hartwells ie right
> in the middle of our "institutional core" and easily accessible by walking,
> biking, or driving.
>
> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 10:20 AM Robert Hicks  wrote:
>
>> point well made
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 10:03 AM Robert Ahlert 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Agreed, great idea!
>>>
>>> Only option E would allow community center at the Mall
>>>
>>> Else, RLF will sell to the highest bidder under HCA zoning for housing.
>>>
>>> Rob
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 9:57 AM Robert Hicks  wrote:
>>>
 I too support Ken Hurd's recommendation that the Community Center be
 included as part of the redevelopment of the Lincoln Station area.

 Please write in - "None of the Above" on the article at the Special
 Town meeting.

 --
 Bob Hicks
 rchi...@gmail.com
 --
 The LincolnTalk mailing list.
 To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
 Browse the archives at
 https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
 Change your subscription settings at
 https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.

>>
>> --
>> Bob Hicks
>> rchi...@gmail.com
>> --
>> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
>> Browse the archives at
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
>> Change your subscription settings at
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>>
>> --
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/
> .
> Change your subscription settings at
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>
>

-- 
Tony Liepert
tliep...@gmail.com
617 633 3521 (cell)
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

2023-12-01 Thread Lynne Smith

Thank you for the clarification, Margaret.

Lynne Smith
5 Tabor Hill Road
Lincoln, MA 01773
cell:  781-258-1175
ly...@smith.net



> On Dec 1, 2023, at 11:52 AM, Margaret Olson  wrote:
> 
> There is nothing that would prevent the RLF from providing or preserving the 
> option of community center space.  And, since it would likely be a long-term 
> lease arrangement, it would spread the cost over the life of the lease with 
> the upfront construction costs borne by the developer.
> 
> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 10:44 AM Lynne Smith  > wrote:
> Option E is the only HCA option that would allow us to think about including 
> the Community Center at the Mall.
> 
> Lynne Smith
> 5 Tabor Hill Road
> Lincoln, MA 01773
> cell:  781-258-1175
> ly...@smith.net 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 1, 2023, at 8:53 AM, Jane Appell > > wrote:
>> 
>> Ken, 
>> 
>> You make a great point. The community center and housing zoning came up at 
>> different times as separate issues. But,  For good planning and to provide 
>> the most benefit to the town as we would like to see it, it makes sense to 
>> look at them both together while we have the chance. 
>> 
>> Jane
>> 
>> 
>> Jane Appell, Ph.D.
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Dec 1, 2023, at 7:54 AM, Ken Hurd >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello LincolnTalkers,
>>> With apologies for expressing yet again my strongly held opinion as an 
>>> architect concerned with what we build in Lincoln, I want to remind 
>>> everyone why I and many others believe we should not build a community 
>>> center on the school campus.  I still believe it should be located in 
>>> Lincoln Station, particularly now that our small commercial area is in play 
>>> because of the Housing Choice Act.
>>> 
>>> As I wrote last year, "I fully support building a new facility, but it has 
>>> long been my opinion that such a major investment by the town should be 
>>> deployed where it is most needed - namely in the Lincoln Station area.  For 
>>> more than ten years since Town Meeting approved the Comprehensive Long 
>>> Range Plan, in which the revitalization of Lincoln Station was 
>>> overwhelmingly one of the highest priorities, the area has lain dormant and 
>>> in serious need of a catalyst to jumpstart its transformation into the 
>>> compact, vital, walkable village center that was a stated goal at the time. 
>>>  A community center in such a location would be the equivalent of an anchor 
>>> store in a retail setting, and by virtue of attracting more people on a 
>>> regular basis, it would create more opportunities for a clustered 
>>> cross-current of activities spawning greater social interaction."  
>>> 
>>> As many will recall at last year’s Town Meeting, there was serious concern 
>>> about the cost to build it, and I am of the opinion that there are better 
>>> ways to accomplish this than spending anywhere from $18 to $24 million of 
>>> taxpayer money to do so.  As was recently suggested to me by an experienced 
>>> urban planner, why not include the Community Center as a required accessory 
>>> use in the development of a future residential project at Lincoln Station?  
>>>  
>>> 
>>> As he said, “With clear program requirements and project parameters to 
>>> guide the design of a new project, developers can be very efficient in 
>>> realizing a good project on time and within budget.” Moreover, “It would be 
>>> a plus to any potential developer's proforma to have a confirmed tenant 
>>> (assuming COA long-term lease) for … an active community use in purposely 
>>> designed ground level space. This strategy would minimize the cost to 
>>> Lincoln upfront financing for design and construction, replace public 
>>> project inefficiencies with professional development expertise, and as such 
>>> the new Community Center facility may be more affordable to the town's 
>>> stressed taxpayers."
>>> 
>>> As I also wrote last year, I believe  it would constitute the classic 
>>> suburban planning error to create a new facility that stands alone at the 
>>> school and, like the suburban mall, accessible only by car.  In addition, 
>>> because of school protocols, there would be very limited inter-generational 
>>> co-mingling until after school hours, if at all.  And, even if there 
>>> weren’t a greater  awareness about the effects of climate change, wouldn’t 
>>> it make far more sense to locate a community center where there are already 
>>> other crucial services such as the post office, grocery store, cleaners, a 
>>> cafe and restaurant, not to mention the potential for more housing?  
>>> 
>>> Earlier this week I wrote the Selects about including an option to vote for 
>>> “None of the Above” at tomorrow’s Town Meeting.  Absent any response, I 
>>> plan to vote for Option 3 ($12.5 million project cost) that has already 
>>> been characterized as not sufficient to provide services comparable to what 
>>> we already have

Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

Thanks for asking.

What I want is a well thought out design process, which cannot happen with
all of these points up in the air at the same time.

We need more time. We have more time.

I’m worried about large monolithic housing structures in the mall parking
lot and eventually replacing Donelan’s and on the commuter rail parking lot
as well. And maybe even Doherty will have four stories with a special
permit from the planning board

I just don’t see how this doesn’t happen once this property is HCA zoned
and turned over to a for profit developer

They won’t want commercial, they won’t want a community center. All they
want is luxury housing and parking. And they will get exactly what they
want because these parcels are zoned as HCA and the zoning bylaws permit
without a special permit

If you are in doubt or if you think we need more time, please vote for
option E

Rob



On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 11:43 AM DJCP  wrote:

> Do you want a community center at the mall or do you want affordable
> housing and commercial space?  Can you please make up your mind?
>
> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 10:08 AM Robert Ahlert  wrote:
>
>> Agreed, great idea!
>>
>> Only option E would allow community center at the Mall
>>
>> Else, RLF will sell to the highest bidder under HCA zoning for housing.
>>
>> Rob
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 9:57 AM Robert Hicks  wrote:
>>
>>> I too support Ken Hurd's recommendation that the Community Center be
>>> included as part of the redevelopment of the Lincoln Station area.
>>>
>>> Please write in - "None of the Above" on the article at the Special Town
>>> meeting.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Bob Hicks
>>> rchi...@gmail.com
>>>
>> --
>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
>>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
>>> Browse the archives at
>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
>>> Change your subscription settings at
>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>>>
>>> --
>> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
>> Browse the archives at
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
>> Change your subscription settings at
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>>
>>
-- 
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

2023-12-01 Thread Scott Clary

So when it comes time for the community center vote, residents can ask that
"a none of the above" option gets written in.

Kind Regards,

Scott Clary
617-968-5769

Sent from a mobile device - please excuse typos and errors

On Fri, Dec 1, 2023, 10:52 AM Chris McCarthy  wrote:

> But none of the community center voting options options include the
> possibility locating at the mall, right? Nor do I believe there was any
> discussion about this beyond "ain't happening".
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023, 10:44 Lynne Smith  wrote:
>
>> Option E is the only HCA option that would allow us to think about
>> including the Community Center at the Mall.
>>
>> Lynne Smith
>> 5 Tabor Hill Road
>> Lincoln, MA 01773
>> cell:  781-258-1175
>> ly...@smith.net
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 1, 2023, at 8:53 AM, Jane Appell  wrote:
>>
>> Ken,
>>
>> You make a great point. The community center and housing zoning came up
>> at different times as separate issues. But,  For good planning and to
>> provide the most benefit to the town as we would like to see it, it makes
>> sense to look at them both together while we have the chance.
>>
>> Jane
>>
>>
>> Jane Appell, Ph.D.
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Dec 1, 2023, at 7:54 AM, Ken Hurd  wrote:
>>
>> Hello LincolnTalkers,
>> With apologies for expressing yet again my strongly held opinion as an
>> architect concerned with what we build in Lincoln, I want to remind
>> everyone why I and many others believe we should not build a community
>> center on the school campus.  I still believe it should be located in
>> Lincoln Station, particularly now that our small commercial area is in play
>> because of the Housing Choice Act.
>>
>> As I wrote last year, "I fully support building a new facility, but it
>> has long been my opinion that such a major investment by the town should be
>> deployed where it is most needed - namely in the Lincoln Station area.  For
>> more than ten years since Town Meeting approved the Comprehensive Long
>> Range Plan, in which the revitalization of Lincoln Station was
>> overwhelmingly one of the highest priorities, the area has lain dormant and
>> in serious need of a catalyst to jumpstart its transformation into the
>> compact, vital, walkable village center that was a stated goal at the
>> time.  A community center in such a location would be the equivalent of an
>> anchor store in a retail setting, and by virtue of attracting more people
>> on a regular basis, it would create more opportunities for a clustered
>> cross-current of activities spawning greater social interaction."
>>
>> As many will recall at last year’s Town Meeting, there was serious
>> concern about the cost to build it, and I am of the opinion that there are
>> better ways to accomplish this than spending anywhere from $18 to $24
>> million of taxpayer money to do so.  As was recently suggested to me by an
>> experienced urban planner, why not include the Community Center as a
>> required accessory use in the development of a future residential
>> project at Lincoln Station?
>>
>> As he said, “With clear program requirements and project parameters to
>> guide the design of a new project, developers can be very efficient in
>> realizing a good project on time and within budget.” Moreover, “It would
>> be a plus to any potential developer's proforma to have a confirmed tenant
>> (assuming COA long-term lease) for … an active community use in purposely
>> designed ground level space. This strategy would minimize the cost to
>> Lincoln upfront financing for design and construction, replace public
>> project inefficiencies with professional development expertise, and as such
>> the new Community Center facility may be more affordable to the town's
>> stressed taxpayers."
>>
>> As I also wrote last year, I believe  it would constitute the classic
>> suburban planning error to create a new facility that stands alone at the
>> school and, like the suburban mall, accessible only by car.  In addition,
>> because of school protocols, there would be very limited inter-generational
>> co-mingling until after school hours, if at all.  And, even if there
>> weren’t a greater  awareness about the effects of climate change, wouldn’t
>> it make far more sense to locate a community center where there are already
>> other crucial services such as the post office, grocery store, cleaners, a
>> cafe and restaurant, not to mention the potential for more housing?
>>
>> Earlier this week I wrote the Selects about including an option to vote
>> for “None of the Above” at tomorrow’s Town Meeting.  Absent any response, I
>> plan to vote for Option 3 ($12.5 million project cost) that has already
>> been characterized as not sufficient to provide services comparable to what
>> we already have at Bemis.
>>
>> Please join me in rejecting the more expensive options 1 and 2 in order
>> to redirect our efforts to take advantage of this moment in time to be far
>> more creative, innovative and holistic in how we design and fund a
>>

Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

There is nothing that would prevent the RLF from providing or preserving
the option of community center space.  And, since it would likely be a
long-term lease arrangement, it would spread the cost over the life of the
lease with the upfront construction costs borne by the developer.

On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 10:44 AM Lynne Smith  wrote:

> Option E is the only HCA option that would allow us to think about
> including the Community Center at the Mall.
>
> Lynne Smith
> 5 Tabor Hill Road
> Lincoln, MA 01773
> cell:  781-258-1175
> ly...@smith.net
>
>
>
> On Dec 1, 2023, at 8:53 AM, Jane Appell  wrote:
>
> Ken,
>
> You make a great point. The community center and housing zoning came up at
> different times as separate issues. But,  For good planning and to provide
> the most benefit to the town as we would like to see it, it makes sense to
> look at them both together while we have the chance.
>
> Jane
>
>
> Jane Appell, Ph.D.
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Dec 1, 2023, at 7:54 AM, Ken Hurd  wrote:
>
> Hello LincolnTalkers,
> With apologies for expressing yet again my strongly held opinion as an
> architect concerned with what we build in Lincoln, I want to remind
> everyone why I and many others believe we should not build a community
> center on the school campus.  I still believe it should be located in
> Lincoln Station, particularly now that our small commercial area is in play
> because of the Housing Choice Act.
>
> As I wrote last year, "I fully support building a new facility, but it
> has long been my opinion that such a major investment by the town should be
> deployed where it is most needed - namely in the Lincoln Station area.  For
> more than ten years since Town Meeting approved the Comprehensive Long
> Range Plan, in which the revitalization of Lincoln Station was
> overwhelmingly one of the highest priorities, the area has lain dormant and
> in serious need of a catalyst to jumpstart its transformation into the
> compact, vital, walkable village center that was a stated goal at the
> time.  A community center in such a location would be the equivalent of an
> anchor store in a retail setting, and by virtue of attracting more people
> on a regular basis, it would create more opportunities for a clustered
> cross-current of activities spawning greater social interaction."
>
> As many will recall at last year’s Town Meeting, there was serious concern
> about the cost to build it, and I am of the opinion that there are better
> ways to accomplish this than spending anywhere from $18 to $24 million of
> taxpayer money to do so.  As was recently suggested to me by an experienced
> urban planner, why not include the Community Center as a required
> accessory use in the development of a future residential project at
> Lincoln Station?
>
> As he said, “With clear program requirements and project parameters to
> guide the design of a new project, developers can be very efficient in
> realizing a good project on time and within budget.” Moreover, “It would
> be a plus to any potential developer's proforma to have a confirmed tenant
> (assuming COA long-term lease) for … an active community use in purposely
> designed ground level space. This strategy would minimize the cost to
> Lincoln upfront financing for design and construction, replace public
> project inefficiencies with professional development expertise, and as such
> the new Community Center facility may be more affordable to the town's
> stressed taxpayers."
>
> As I also wrote last year, I believe  it would constitute the classic
> suburban planning error to create a new facility that stands alone at the
> school and, like the suburban mall, accessible only by car.  In addition,
> because of school protocols, there would be very limited inter-generational
> co-mingling until after school hours, if at all.  And, even if there
> weren’t a greater  awareness about the effects of climate change, wouldn’t
> it make far more sense to locate a community center where there are already
> other crucial services such as the post office, grocery store, cleaners, a
> cafe and restaurant, not to mention the potential for more housing?
>
> Earlier this week I wrote the Selects about including an option to vote
> for “None of the Above” at tomorrow’s Town Meeting.  Absent any response, I
> plan to vote for Option 3 ($12.5 million project cost) that has already
> been characterized as not sufficient to provide services comparable to what
> we already have at Bemis.
>
> Please join me in rejecting the more expensive options 1 and 2 in order to
> redirect our efforts to take advantage of this moment in time to be far
> more creative, innovative and holistic in how we design and fund a
> Community Center that can also help transform Lincoln Station to its full
> potential as a truly vital, walkable village center.  Remember,
>
>   we humans *shape our environments* at a moment in time,
> and *then they shape us* for decades to come.
>
> Respectfully,
> Ken

Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

2023-12-01 Thread Scott Clary

I agree wholeheartedly got the community center should be at the mall.

And the ONLY way that could happen is if option E is chosen tomorrow at
town meeting. Please everyone show up and vote. if you're unsure, vote for
E because it gives us more critical time and control.

Kind Regards,

Scott Clary
617-968-5769

Sent from a mobile device - please excuse typos and errors

On Fri, Dec 1, 2023, 10:20 AM Robert Hicks  wrote:

> point well made
>
> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 10:03 AM Robert Ahlert  wrote:
>
>> Agreed, great idea!
>>
>> Only option E would allow community center at the Mall
>>
>> Else, RLF will sell to the highest bidder under HCA zoning for housing.
>>
>> Rob
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 9:57 AM Robert Hicks  wrote:
>>
>>> I too support Ken Hurd's recommendation that the Community Center be
>>> included as part of the redevelopment of the Lincoln Station area.
>>>
>>> Please write in - "None of the Above" on the article at the Special Town
>>> meeting.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Bob Hicks
>>> rchi...@gmail.com
>>> --
>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
>>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
>>> Browse the archives at
>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
>>> Change your subscription settings at
>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>>>
>>>
>
> --
> Bob Hicks
> rchi...@gmail.com
> --
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/
> .
> Change your subscription settings at
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>
>
-- 
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

2023-12-01 Thread DJCP

Do you want a community center at the mall or do you want affordable
housing and commercial space?  Can you please make up your mind?

On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 10:08 AM Robert Ahlert  wrote:

> Agreed, great idea!
>
> Only option E would allow community center at the Mall
>
> Else, RLF will sell to the highest bidder under HCA zoning for housing.
>
> Rob
>
> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 9:57 AM Robert Hicks  wrote:
>
>> I too support Ken Hurd's recommendation that the Community Center be
>> included as part of the redevelopment of the Lincoln Station area.
>>
>> Please write in - "None of the Above" on the article at the Special Town
>> meeting.
>>
>> --
>> Bob Hicks
>> rchi...@gmail.com
>> --
>> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
>> Browse the archives at
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
>> Change your subscription settings at
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>>
>> --
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/
> .
> Change your subscription settings at
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>
>
-- 
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

2023-12-01 Thread V Saleme

Perhaps this has been discussed however and should LEAP be moved 2/3 of a
mile down the road, how do we propose getting the children from the school
to there as opposed to walking or being chaperoned (by staff) to current
facility?

VS
—-

On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 11:17 AM John Mendelson 
wrote:

> The myriad reasons why the Community Center (remember it is planned to
> accommodate the COA, LEAP, and Parks & Rec) should NOT be located at the
> mall have been well documented by the folks who've worked on the community
> center plans for almost a decade.  The location at the Hartwells ie right
> in the middle of our "institutional core" and easily accessible by walking,
> biking, or driving.
>
> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 10:20 AM Robert Hicks  wrote:
>
>> point well made
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 10:03 AM Robert Ahlert 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Agreed, great idea!
>>>
>>> Only option E would allow community center at the Mall
>>>
>>> Else, RLF will sell to the highest bidder under HCA zoning for housing.
>>>
>>> Rob
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 9:57 AM Robert Hicks  wrote:
>>>
 I too support Ken Hurd's recommendation that the Community Center be
 included as part of the redevelopment of the Lincoln Station area.

 Please write in - "None of the Above" on the article at the Special
 Town meeting.

 --
 Bob Hicks
 rchi...@gmail.com
 --
 The LincolnTalk mailing list.
 To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
 Browse the archives at
 https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
 Change your subscription settings at
 https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.


>>
>> --
>> Bob Hicks
>> rchi...@gmail.com
>> --
>> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
>> Browse the archives at
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
>> Change your subscription settings at
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>>
>> --
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/
> .
> Change your subscription settings at
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>
>
-- 
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

2023-12-01 Thread John Mendelson

The myriad reasons why the Community Center (remember it is planned to
accommodate the COA, LEAP, and Parks & Rec) should NOT be located at the
mall have been well documented by the folks who've worked on the community
center plans for almost a decade.  The location at the Hartwells ie right
in the middle of our "institutional core" and easily accessible by walking,
biking, or driving.

On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 10:20 AM Robert Hicks  wrote:

> point well made
>
> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 10:03 AM Robert Ahlert  wrote:
>
>> Agreed, great idea!
>>
>> Only option E would allow community center at the Mall
>>
>> Else, RLF will sell to the highest bidder under HCA zoning for housing.
>>
>> Rob
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 9:57 AM Robert Hicks  wrote:
>>
>>> I too support Ken Hurd's recommendation that the Community Center be
>>> included as part of the redevelopment of the Lincoln Station area.
>>>
>>> Please write in - "None of the Above" on the article at the Special Town
>>> meeting.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Bob Hicks
>>> rchi...@gmail.com
>>> --
>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
>>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
>>> Browse the archives at
>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
>>> Change your subscription settings at
>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>>>
>>>
>
> --
> Bob Hicks
> rchi...@gmail.com
> --
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/
> .
> Change your subscription settings at
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>
>
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

How do you come to that conclusion?

On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 10:44 AM Lynne Smith  wrote:

> Option E is the only HCA option that would allow us to think about
> including the Community Center at the Mall.
>
> Lynne Smith
> 5 Tabor Hill Road
> 
> Lincoln, MA 01773
> 
> cell:  781-258-1175
> ly...@smith.net
>
>
>
> On Dec 1, 2023, at 8:53 AM, Jane Appell  wrote:
>
> Ken,
>
> You make a great point. The community center and housing zoning came up at
> different times as separate issues. But,  For good planning and to provide
> the most benefit to the town as we would like to see it, it makes sense to
> look at them both together while we have the chance.
>
> Jane
>
>
> Jane Appell, Ph.D.
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Dec 1, 2023, at 7:54 AM, Ken Hurd  wrote:
>
> Hello LincolnTalkers,
> With apologies for expressing yet again my strongly held opinion as an
> architect concerned with what we build in Lincoln, I want to remind
> everyone why I and many others believe we should not build a community
> center on the school campus.  I still believe it should be located in
> Lincoln Station, particularly now that our small commercial area is in play
> because of the Housing Choice Act.
>
> As I wrote last year, "I fully support building a new facility, but it
> has long been my opinion that such a major investment by the town should be
> deployed where it is most needed - namely in the Lincoln Station area.  For
> more than ten years since Town Meeting approved the Comprehensive Long
> Range Plan, in which the revitalization of Lincoln Station was
> overwhelmingly one of the highest priorities, the area has lain dormant and
> in serious need of a catalyst to jumpstart its transformation into the
> compact, vital, walkable village center that was a stated goal at the
> time.  A community center in such a location would be the equivalent of an
> anchor store in a retail setting, and by virtue of attracting more people
> on a regular basis, it would create more opportunities for a clustered
> cross-current of activities spawning greater social interaction."
>
> As many will recall at last year’s Town Meeting, there was serious concern
> about the cost to build it, and I am of the opinion that there are better
> ways to accomplish this than spending anywhere from $18 to $24 million of
> taxpayer money to do so.  As was recently suggested to me by an experienced
> urban planner, why not include the Community Center as a required
> accessory use in the development of a future residential project at
> Lincoln Station?
>
> As he said, “With clear program requirements and project parameters to
> guide the design of a new project, developers can be very efficient in
> realizing a good project on time and within budget.” Moreover, “It would
> be a plus to any potential developer's proforma to have a confirmed tenant
> (assuming COA long-term lease) for … an active community use in purposely
> designed ground level space. This strategy would minimize the cost to
> Lincoln upfront financing for design and construction, replace public
> project inefficiencies with professional development expertise, and as such
> the new Community Center facility may be more affordable to the town's
> stressed taxpayers."
>
> As I also wrote last year, I believe  it would constitute the classic
> suburban planning error to create a new facility that stands alone at the
> school and, like the suburban mall, accessible only by car.  In addition,
> because of school protocols, there would be very limited inter-generational
> co-mingling until after school hours, if at all.  And, even if there
> weren’t a greater  awareness about the effects of climate change, wouldn’t
> it make far more sense to locate a community center where there are already
> other crucial services such as the post office, grocery store, cleaners, a
> cafe and restaurant, not to mention the potential for more housing?
>
> Earlier this week I wrote the Selects about including an option to vote
> for “None of the Above” at tomorrow’s Town Meeting.  Absent any response, I
> plan to vote for Option 3 ($12.5 million project cost) that has already
> been characterized as not sufficient to provide services comparable to what
> we already have at Bemis.
>
> Please join me in rejecting the more expensive options 1 and 2 in order to
> redirect our efforts to take advantage of this moment in time to be far
> more creative, innovative and holistic in how we design and fund a
> Community Center that can also help transform Lincoln Station to its full
> potential as a truly vital, walkable village center.  Remember,
>
>   we humans *shape our environments* at a moment in time,
> and *then they shape us* for decades to come.
>
> Respectfully,
> Ken Hurd
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To

Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

2023-12-01 Thread Chris McCarthy

But none of the community center voting options options include the
possibility locating at the mall, right? Nor do I believe there was any
discussion about this beyond "ain't happening".



On Fri, Dec 1, 2023, 10:44 Lynne Smith  wrote:

> Option E is the only HCA option that would allow us to think about
> including the Community Center at the Mall.
>
> Lynne Smith
> 5 Tabor Hill Road
> Lincoln, MA 01773
> cell:  781-258-1175
> ly...@smith.net
>
>
>
> On Dec 1, 2023, at 8:53 AM, Jane Appell  wrote:
>
> Ken,
>
> You make a great point. The community center and housing zoning came up at
> different times as separate issues. But,  For good planning and to provide
> the most benefit to the town as we would like to see it, it makes sense to
> look at them both together while we have the chance.
>
> Jane
>
>
> Jane Appell, Ph.D.
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Dec 1, 2023, at 7:54 AM, Ken Hurd  wrote:
>
> Hello LincolnTalkers,
> With apologies for expressing yet again my strongly held opinion as an
> architect concerned with what we build in Lincoln, I want to remind
> everyone why I and many others believe we should not build a community
> center on the school campus.  I still believe it should be located in
> Lincoln Station, particularly now that our small commercial area is in play
> because of the Housing Choice Act.
>
> As I wrote last year, "I fully support building a new facility, but it
> has long been my opinion that such a major investment by the town should be
> deployed where it is most needed - namely in the Lincoln Station area.  For
> more than ten years since Town Meeting approved the Comprehensive Long
> Range Plan, in which the revitalization of Lincoln Station was
> overwhelmingly one of the highest priorities, the area has lain dormant and
> in serious need of a catalyst to jumpstart its transformation into the
> compact, vital, walkable village center that was a stated goal at the
> time.  A community center in such a location would be the equivalent of an
> anchor store in a retail setting, and by virtue of attracting more people
> on a regular basis, it would create more opportunities for a clustered
> cross-current of activities spawning greater social interaction."
>
> As many will recall at last year’s Town Meeting, there was serious concern
> about the cost to build it, and I am of the opinion that there are better
> ways to accomplish this than spending anywhere from $18 to $24 million of
> taxpayer money to do so.  As was recently suggested to me by an experienced
> urban planner, why not include the Community Center as a required
> accessory use in the development of a future residential project at
> Lincoln Station?
>
> As he said, “With clear program requirements and project parameters to
> guide the design of a new project, developers can be very efficient in
> realizing a good project on time and within budget.” Moreover, “It would
> be a plus to any potential developer's proforma to have a confirmed tenant
> (assuming COA long-term lease) for … an active community use in purposely
> designed ground level space. This strategy would minimize the cost to
> Lincoln upfront financing for design and construction, replace public
> project inefficiencies with professional development expertise, and as such
> the new Community Center facility may be more affordable to the town's
> stressed taxpayers."
>
> As I also wrote last year, I believe  it would constitute the classic
> suburban planning error to create a new facility that stands alone at the
> school and, like the suburban mall, accessible only by car.  In addition,
> because of school protocols, there would be very limited inter-generational
> co-mingling until after school hours, if at all.  And, even if there
> weren’t a greater  awareness about the effects of climate change, wouldn’t
> it make far more sense to locate a community center where there are already
> other crucial services such as the post office, grocery store, cleaners, a
> cafe and restaurant, not to mention the potential for more housing?
>
> Earlier this week I wrote the Selects about including an option to vote
> for “None of the Above” at tomorrow’s Town Meeting.  Absent any response, I
> plan to vote for Option 3 ($12.5 million project cost) that has already
> been characterized as not sufficient to provide services comparable to what
> we already have at Bemis.
>
> Please join me in rejecting the more expensive options 1 and 2 in order to
> redirect our efforts to take advantage of this moment in time to be far
> more creative, innovative and holistic in how we design and fund a
> Community Center that can also help transform Lincoln Station to its full
> potential as a truly vital, walkable village center.  Remember,
>
>   we humans *shape our environments* at a moment in time,
> and *then they shape us* for decades to come.
>
> Respectfully,
> Ken Hurd
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To post, send mail to

Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

2023-12-01 Thread Lynne Smith

Option E is the only HCA option that would allow us to think about including 
the Community Center at the Mall.

Lynne Smith
5 Tabor Hill Road
Lincoln, MA 01773
cell:  781-258-1175
ly...@smith.net



> On Dec 1, 2023, at 8:53 AM, Jane Appell  wrote:
> 
> Ken, 
> 
> You make a great point. The community center and housing zoning came up at 
> different times as separate issues. But,  For good planning and to provide 
> the most benefit to the town as we would like to see it, it makes sense to 
> look at them both together while we have the chance. 
> 
> Jane
> 
> 
> Jane Appell, Ph.D.
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Dec 1, 2023, at 7:54 AM, Ken Hurd > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hello LincolnTalkers,
>> With apologies for expressing yet again my strongly held opinion as an 
>> architect concerned with what we build in Lincoln, I want to remind everyone 
>> why I and many others believe we should not build a community center on the 
>> school campus.  I still believe it should be located in Lincoln Station, 
>> particularly now that our small commercial area is in play because of the 
>> Housing Choice Act.
>> 
>> As I wrote last year, "I fully support building a new facility, but it has 
>> long been my opinion that such a major investment by the town should be 
>> deployed where it is most needed - namely in the Lincoln Station area.  For 
>> more than ten years since Town Meeting approved the Comprehensive Long Range 
>> Plan, in which the revitalization of Lincoln Station was overwhelmingly one 
>> of the highest priorities, the area has lain dormant and in serious need of 
>> a catalyst to jumpstart its transformation into the compact, vital, walkable 
>> village center that was a stated goal at the time.  A community center in 
>> such a location would be the equivalent of an anchor store in a retail 
>> setting, and by virtue of attracting more people on a regular basis, it 
>> would create more opportunities for a clustered cross-current of activities 
>> spawning greater social interaction."  
>> 
>> As many will recall at last year’s Town Meeting, there was serious concern 
>> about the cost to build it, and I am of the opinion that there are better 
>> ways to accomplish this than spending anywhere from $18 to $24 million of 
>> taxpayer money to do so.  As was recently suggested to me by an experienced 
>> urban planner, why not include the Community Center as a required accessory 
>> use in the development of a future residential project at Lincoln Station?   
>> 
>> As he said, “With clear program requirements and project parameters to guide 
>> the design of a new project, developers can be very efficient in realizing a 
>> good project on time and within budget.” Moreover, “It would be a plus to 
>> any potential developer's proforma to have a confirmed tenant (assuming COA 
>> long-term lease) for … an active community use in purposely designed ground 
>> level space. This strategy would minimize the cost to Lincoln upfront 
>> financing for design and construction, replace public project inefficiencies 
>> with professional development expertise, and as such the new Community 
>> Center facility may be more affordable to the town's stressed taxpayers."
>> 
>> As I also wrote last year, I believe  it would constitute the classic 
>> suburban planning error to create a new facility that stands alone at the 
>> school and, like the suburban mall, accessible only by car.  In addition, 
>> because of school protocols, there would be very limited inter-generational 
>> co-mingling until after school hours, if at all.  And, even if there weren’t 
>> a greater  awareness about the effects of climate change, wouldn’t it make 
>> far more sense to locate a community center where there are already other 
>> crucial services such as the post office, grocery store, cleaners, a cafe 
>> and restaurant, not to mention the potential for more housing?  
>> 
>> Earlier this week I wrote the Selects about including an option to vote for 
>> “None of the Above” at tomorrow’s Town Meeting.  Absent any response, I plan 
>> to vote for Option 3 ($12.5 million project cost) that has already been 
>> characterized as not sufficient to provide services comparable to what we 
>> already have at Bemis.
>> 
>> Please join me in rejecting the more expensive options 1 and 2 in order to 
>> redirect our efforts to take advantage of this moment in time to be far more 
>> creative, innovative and holistic in how we design and fund a Community 
>> Center that can also help transform Lincoln Station to its full potential as 
>> a truly vital, walkable village center.  Remember,
>> 
>>   we humans shape our environments at a moment in time, 
>> and then they shape us for decades to come.
>> 
>> Respectfully,
>> Ken Hurd
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org 
>> .
>> Browse the

Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

2023-12-01 Thread Robert Hicks

point well made

On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 10:03 AM Robert Ahlert  wrote:

> Agreed, great idea!
>
> Only option E would allow community center at the Mall
>
> Else, RLF will sell to the highest bidder under HCA zoning for housing.
>
> Rob
>
> On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 9:57 AM Robert Hicks  wrote:
>
>> I too support Ken Hurd's recommendation that the Community Center be
>> included as part of the redevelopment of the Lincoln Station area.
>>
>> Please write in - "None of the Above" on the article at the Special Town
>> meeting.
>>
>> --
>> Bob Hicks
>> rchi...@gmail.com
>> --
>> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
>> Browse the archives at
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
>> Change your subscription settings at
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>>
>>

-- 
Bob Hicks
rchi...@gmail.com
-- 
The LincolnTalk mailing list.
To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
Change your subscription settings at 
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

Agreed, great idea!

Only option E would allow community center at the Mall

Else, RLF will sell to the highest bidder under HCA zoning for housing.

Rob

On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 9:57 AM Robert Hicks  wrote:

> I too support Ken Hurd's recommendation that the Community Center be
> included as part of the redevelopment of the Lincoln Station area.
>
> Please write in - "None of the Above" on the article at the Special Town
> meeting.
>
> --
> Bob Hicks
> rchi...@gmail.com
> --
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/
> .
> Change your subscription settings at
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>
>
-- 
The LincolnTalk mailing list.
To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
Change your subscription settings at 
https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.

Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

2023-12-01 Thread Jane Appell

Ken, 

You make a great point. The community center and housing zoning came up at 
different times as separate issues. But,  For good planning and to provide the 
most benefit to the town as we would like to see it, it makes sense to look at 
them both together while we have the chance. 

Jane


Jane Appell, Ph.D.
Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 1, 2023, at 7:54 AM, Ken Hurd  wrote:
> 
> Hello LincolnTalkers,
> With apologies for expressing yet again my strongly held opinion as an 
> architect concerned with what we build in Lincoln, I want to remind everyone 
> why I and many others believe we should not build a community center on the 
> school campus.  I still believe it should be located in Lincoln Station, 
> particularly now that our small commercial area is in play because of the 
> Housing Choice Act.
> 
> As I wrote last year, "I fully support building a new facility, but it has 
> long been my opinion that such a major investment by the town should be 
> deployed where it is most needed - namely in the Lincoln Station area.  For 
> more than ten years since Town Meeting approved the Comprehensive Long Range 
> Plan, in which the revitalization of Lincoln Station was overwhelmingly one 
> of the highest priorities, the area has lain dormant and in serious need of a 
> catalyst to jumpstart its transformation into the compact, vital, walkable 
> village center that was a stated goal at the time.  A community center in 
> such a location would be the equivalent of an anchor store in a retail 
> setting, and by virtue of attracting more people on a regular basis, it would 
> create more opportunities for a clustered cross-current of activities 
> spawning greater social interaction."  
> 
> As many will recall at last year’s Town Meeting, there was serious concern 
> about the cost to build it, and I am of the opinion that there are better 
> ways to accomplish this than spending anywhere from $18 to $24 million of 
> taxpayer money to do so.  As was recently suggested to me by an experienced 
> urban planner, why not include the Community Center as a required accessory 
> use in the development of a future residential project at Lincoln Station?   
> 
> As he said, “With clear program requirements and project parameters to guide 
> the design of a new project, developers can be very efficient in realizing a 
> good project on time and within budget.” Moreover, “It would be a plus to any 
> potential developer's proforma to have a confirmed tenant (assuming COA 
> long-term lease) for … an active community use in purposely designed ground 
> level space. This strategy would minimize the cost to Lincoln upfront 
> financing for design and construction, replace public project inefficiencies 
> with professional development expertise, and as such the new Community Center 
> facility may be more affordable to the town's stressed taxpayers."
> 
> As I also wrote last year, I believe  it would constitute the classic 
> suburban planning error to create a new facility that stands alone at the 
> school and, like the suburban mall, accessible only by car.  In addition, 
> because of school protocols, there would be very limited inter-generational 
> co-mingling until after school hours, if at all.  And, even if there weren’t 
> a greater  awareness about the effects of climate change, wouldn’t it make 
> far more sense to locate a community center where there are already other 
> crucial services such as the post office, grocery store, cleaners, a cafe and 
> restaurant, not to mention the potential for more housing?  
> 
> Earlier this week I wrote the Selects about including an option to vote for 
> “None of the Above” at tomorrow’s Town Meeting.  Absent any response, I plan 
> to vote for Option 3 ($12.5 million project cost) that has already been 
> characterized as not sufficient to provide services comparable to what we 
> already have at Bemis.
> 
> Please join me in rejecting the more expensive options 1 and 2 in order to 
> redirect our efforts to take advantage of this moment in time to be far more 
> creative, innovative and holistic in how we design and fund a Community 
> Center that can also help transform Lincoln Station to its full potential as 
> a truly vital, walkable village center.  Remember,
> 
>   we humans shape our environments at a moment in time, 
> and then they shape us for decades to come.
> 
> Respectfully,
> Ken Hurd
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
> Change your subscription settings at 
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
> 
-- 
The LincolnTalk mailing list.
To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
Change your subscription settings at 
https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.

Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center

2023-12-01 Thread Peter Buchthal

I do hope there is a motion on the floor to add an additional choice of
"None of the Above" to the three choices of the Community Center.

I am not an architect, nor a builder, but I think I have some common
sense. The average  square footage being added to the Hartwell Campus for
the three Community Center choices is  15,933 square feet.  How many people
do we expect to visit the Community Center at any one time?  In order for
it to be fully used, not a white elephant, let's just say I hope we are
building the Community Center to host 50 to 100 people during many days and
times.

Where do we expect everyone to park?  We have approximately 50 spaces near
the new Community Center and they are well taken at many times of the day,
especially during drop off and pickup of Magic Gardens, after school,
pickup from Leap, and when any activity occurs at the main Hartwell
building that houses a new training facility for the School District and
the Hartwell Multi purpose room.  I believe the new community center (not
including Leap) will only be used from 9AM to 2PM for safety reasons to
avoid little children running in the parking lot.

In all three options being proposed for the community center, we are adding
only 13 spots along Ballfield road.  Where will everyone park?

I support the suggestion to move a new community center to the revitalized
Lincoln Mall.  Those 50 to 100 people who visit the community center at one
time will be great anchor users of Twisted Tree, Donelans, the Tack room
and other retailers who we claim to want to support.

Peter Buchthal
Weston Rd

On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 7:54 AM Ken Hurd  wrote:

> Hello LincolnTalkers,
> With apologies for expressing yet again my strongly held opinion as an
> architect concerned with what we build in Lincoln, I want to remind
> everyone why I and many others believe we should not build a community
> center on the school campus.  I still believe it should be located in
> Lincoln Station, particularly now that our small commercial area is in play
> because of the Housing Choice Act.
>
> As I wrote last year, "I fully support building a new facility, but it
> has long been my opinion that such a major investment by the town should be
> deployed where it is most needed - namely in the Lincoln Station area.  For
> more than ten years since Town Meeting approved the Comprehensive Long
> Range Plan, in which the revitalization of Lincoln Station was
> overwhelmingly one of the highest priorities, the area has lain dormant and
> in serious need of a catalyst to jumpstart its transformation into the
> compact, vital, walkable village center that was a stated goal at the
> time.  A community center in such a location would be the equivalent of an
> anchor store in a retail setting, and by virtue of attracting more people
> on a regular basis, it would create more opportunities for a clustered
> cross-current of activities spawning greater social interaction."
>
> As many will recall at last year’s Town Meeting, there was serious concern
> about the cost to build it, and I am of the opinion that there are better
> ways to accomplish this than spending anywhere from $18 to $24 million of
> taxpayer money to do so.  As was recently suggested to me by an experienced
> urban planner, why not include the Community Center as a required
> accessory use in the development of a future residential project at
> Lincoln Station?
>
> As he said, “With clear program requirements and project parameters to
> guide the design of a new project, developers can be very efficient in
> realizing a good project on time and within budget.” Moreover, “It would
> be a plus to any potential developer's proforma to have a confirmed tenant
> (assuming COA long-term lease) for … an active community use in purposely
> designed ground level space. This strategy would minimize the cost to
> Lincoln upfront financing for design and construction, replace public
> project inefficiencies with professional development expertise, and as such
> the new Community Center facility may be more affordable to the town's
> stressed taxpayers."
>
> As I also wrote last year, I believe  it would constitute the classic
> suburban planning error to create a new facility that stands alone at the
> school and, like the suburban mall, accessible only by car.  In addition,
> because of school protocols, there would be very limited inter-generational
> co-mingling until after school hours, if at all.  And, even if there
> weren’t a greater  awareness about the effects of climate change, wouldn’t
> it make far more sense to locate a community center where there are already
> other crucial services such as the post office, grocery store, cleaners, a
> cafe and restaurant, not to mention the potential for more housing?
>
> Earlier this week I wrote the Selects about including an option to vote
> for “None of the Above” at tomorrow’s Town Meeting.  Absent any response, I
> plan to vote for Option 3 ($12.5 million project

Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center and Last night at Twisted Tree DeCordova

For an example: a men’s group meet at The Middlebury Coop in Vermont every Thursday morning. Their meet up has gone on for 25 years. All it takes is a little communication . Put the word out. Meet up at Twisted Tree… pick a day and time. We established The Lincoln Art and Farmer’s Market this season just by showing up at the same time and place .Carol RyanSent from my iPhoneOn Oct 10, 2023, at 3:03 PM, Linda McMillan wrote:But would you go to Twisted Tree or Decordova by yourself to hang out and perhaps run into someone? Personally, I would go to these places to meet up with a friend I had made a plan to see, not to go by myself.I am trying to respond to the US Surgeon General's 2023 report that states there is an epidemic of isolation and loneliness in this country because so many people are living alone. They further suggest that local communities find ways to help people connect with others. I think a Community Building designed in the right way could provide a space that invites this connection, a space that other spaces in town don't provide. Where is the Coffee Spot in the library and how many people could it accommodate? I'm just not aware of this. Thanks.On Tue, Oct 10, 2023, 2:39 PM Carol Ryan wrote:Yes just checked in with Melissa the head librarian . Covered drinks and food is allowed in every space except the computer area and historic archives. If a cafe is where people want to meet why not go to Twisted Tree or Decordova. You might actually bump into a friend or two from another town. I doubt this will happen at a community center on the school property.Carol RyanSent from my iPhoneOn Oct 10, 2023, at 2:18 PM, ٍSarah Postlethwait wrote:According to the Library code of conduct, they have a designated coffee area already and food and drinks are permitted in certain parts of the building. 路‍♀️<5237375E-BAED-4C39-B8CC-EDF21140C6DF.jpeg>On Tue, Oct 10, 2023 at 2:03 PM sally kindleberger wrote:But eating food in the library is not encouraged- so no coffee/goodies!On Tue, Oct 10, 2023 at 1:55 PM Sara Mattes wrote:…and, one can always sit in the “tower room” near the Reference Desk and talk.I meet/see /talk to people there, fairly regularly.
———Sara Mattes

Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center and Last night at Twisted Tree DeCordova

2023-10-10 Thread Sara Mattes

I have gone by myself, and not just once-grabbed a cup of coffee, sat down and 
enjoyed it.
That’s just me.

I would feel odd driving to a building and sitting in a lounge.
It would feel like a hotel, or an airport, of a hospital waiting area…to me.

…just one person’s take on it.



--
Sara Mattes




> On Oct 10, 2023, at 3:07 PM, Linda McMillan  wrote:
> 
> But would you go to Twisted Tree or Decordova by yourself to hang out and 
> perhaps run into someone? Personally, I would go to these places to meet up 
> with a friend I had made a plan to see, not to go by myself.
> 
> I am trying to respond to the US Surgeon General's 2023 report that states 
> there is an epidemic of isolation and loneliness in this country because so 
> many people are living alone.  They further suggest that local communities 
> find ways to help people connect with others. I think a Community Building 
> designed in the right way could provide a space that invites this connection, 
> a space that other spaces in town don't provide. Where is the Coffee Spot in 
> the library and how many people could it accommodate? I'm just not aware of 
> this. Thanks.
> 
> On Tue, Oct 10, 2023, 2:39 PM Carol Ryan  > wrote:
>> Yes just checked in with Melissa the head librarian . Covered drinks and 
>> food is allowed in every space except the computer area and historic 
>> archives. If a cafe is where people want to meet why not go to Twisted Tree 
>> or Decordova. You might actually bump into a friend or two from another 
>> town. I doubt this will happen at a community center on the school property.
>> Carol Ryan
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 10, 2023, at 2:18 PM, ٍSarah Postlethwait >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> According to the Library code of conduct, they have a designated coffee 
>>> area already and food and drinks are permitted in certain parts of the 
>>> building. 路‍♀️
>>> <5237375E-BAED-4C39-B8CC-EDF21140C6DF.jpeg>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Oct 10, 2023 at 2:03 PM sally kindleberger >> > wrote:
 But eating food in the library is not encouraged- so no coffee/goodies!
 
 
 On Tue, Oct 10, 2023 at 1:55 PM Sara Mattes >>> > wrote:
> …and, one can always sit in the “tower room” near the Reference Desk and 
> talk.
> I meet/see /talk to people there,  fairly regularly.
> 
> 
> ———
> 
> Sara Mattes
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Oct 10, 2023, at 11:36 AM, Carol Ryan > > wrote:
>> 
>> I drop by the library often . Sometimes I plan to meet friends there. 
>> Other times I see people unexpectedly. I see friends and neighbors with 
>> their children. In my opinion the library is one of our town hubs. I 
>> have never been told to be quiet at the library. There is one designated 
>> quiet room. The library is open for many hours every week. It is cool on 
>> hot days and warm on cold days. It is a beautiful building filled with 
>> natural light, views to look outside and comfortable seating. It is 
>> filled with books, music and there are computers for people to use.There 
>> is a gallery at the Library. They even have coffee. I enjoy getting to 
>> know the librarians . A few years ago we had a conversation with the 
>> head librarian about the library’s quest to encourage more people to 
>> come by. Let’s use it so we don’t lose it.
>> 
>> Carol Ryan
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 10, 2023, at 11:21 AM, Linda McMillan >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Carol,
>>> I love our library, but reserving the Tarbell Room doesn’t meet the 
>>> need of those who just want to drop in and see who is there, hang out a 
>>> bit and socialize. Plus, going to an event is very different from 
>>> seeing people on a day-to-day basis without a special event that causes 
>>> lots of people to show up. Sometimes, folks don’t feel like going to 
>>> “an event”. I think a Community Building would serve this unique need, 
>>> in my opinion.
>>> 
>>> Linda McMillan
>>> 
 On Oct 9, 2023, at 8:35 PM, Carol Ryan >>> > wrote:
 
 There are many different spaces at our wonderful library . Some are 
 designated as quiet space others are not. It’s a great place to meet 
 with friends or bump into neighbors. You can reserve the Tarbell Room 
 for free! Lovely gathering spot outside as well.
 
 Carol Ryan
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Oct 9, 2023, at 5:01 PM, Linda McMillan  > wrote:
> 
> At the library, you are supposed to be quiet, not talking and 
> chatting with folks. It’s for reading.

Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center and Last night at Twisted Tree DeCordova

2023-10-10 Thread Linda McMillan

But would you go to Twisted Tree or Decordova by yourself to hang out and
perhaps run into someone? Personally, I would go to these places to meet up
with a friend I had made a plan to see, not to go by myself.

I am trying to respond to the US Surgeon General's 2023 report that states
there is an epidemic of isolation and loneliness in this country because so
many people are living alone.  They further suggest that local communities
find ways to help people connect with others. I think a Community Building
designed in the right way could provide a space that invites this
connection, a space that other spaces in town don't provide. Where is the
Coffee Spot in the library and how many people could it accommodate? I'm
just not aware of this. Thanks.

On Tue, Oct 10, 2023, 2:39 PM Carol Ryan  wrote:

> Yes just checked in with Melissa the head librarian . Covered drinks and
> food is allowed in every space except the computer area and historic
> archives. If a cafe is where people want to meet why not go to Twisted Tree
> or Decordova. You might actually bump into a friend or two from another
> town. I doubt this will happen at a community center on the school property.
> Carol Ryan
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 10, 2023, at 2:18 PM, ٍSarah Postlethwait  wrote:
>
> 
> According to the Library code of conduct, they have a designated coffee
> area already and food and drinks are permitted in certain parts of the
> building. 路‍♀️
> <5237375E-BAED-4C39-B8CC-EDF21140C6DF.jpeg>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 10, 2023 at 2:03 PM sally kindleberger <
> skindleber...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> But eating food in the library is not encouraged- so no coffee/goodies!
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 10, 2023 at 1:55 PM Sara Mattes  wrote:
>>
>>> …and, one can always sit in the “tower room” near the Reference Desk and
>>> talk.
>>> I meet/see /talk to people there,  fairly regularly.
>>>
>>>
>>> ———
>>>
>>> Sara Mattes
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 10, 2023, at 11:36 AM, Carol Ryan  wrote:
>>>
>>> I drop by the library often . Sometimes I plan to meet friends there.
>>> Other times I see people unexpectedly. I see friends and neighbors with
>>> their children. In my opinion the library is one of our town hubs. I have
>>> never been told to be quiet at the library. There is one designated quiet
>>> room. The library is open for many hours every week. It is cool on hot days
>>> and warm on cold days. It is a beautiful building filled with natural
>>> light, views to look outside and comfortable seating. It is filled with
>>> books, music and there are computers for people to use.There is a gallery
>>> at the Library. They even have coffee. I enjoy getting to know the
>>> librarians . A few years ago we had a conversation with the head librarian
>>> about the library’s quest to encourage more people to come by. Let’s use it
>>> so we don’t lose it.
>>>
>>> Carol Ryan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Oct 10, 2023, at 11:21 AM, Linda McMillan 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Carol,
>>> I love our library, but reserving the Tarbell Room doesn’t meet the need
>>> of those who just want to drop in and see who is there, hang out a bit and
>>> socialize. Plus, going to an event is very different from seeing people on
>>> a day-to-day basis without a special event that causes lots of people to
>>> show up. Sometimes, folks don’t feel like going to “an event”. I think a
>>> Community Building would serve this unique need, in my opinion.
>>>
>>> Linda McMillan
>>>
>>> On Oct 9, 2023, at 8:35 PM, Carol Ryan  wrote:
>>>
>>> There are many different spaces at our wonderful library . Some are
>>> designated as quiet space others are not. It’s a great place to meet with
>>> friends or bump into neighbors. You can reserve the Tarbell Room for free!
>>> Lovely gathering spot outside as well.
>>>
>>> Carol Ryan
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Oct 9, 2023, at 5:01 PM, Linda McMillan 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> At the library, you are supposed to be quiet, not talking and chatting
>>> with folks. It’s for reading.
>>>
>>> On Oct 7, 2023, at 11:43 AM, Sara Mattes  wrote:
>>>
>>> What is the likelihood you would meet any of these folks at a Hartwell
>>> CC, between the hours of 9:30 AM and 3:30 PM?
>>>
>>> We meet at events like you have just described - at DeCordova, at Pierce
>>> House ( First Day, 4 th of July), at Codman Farm, at the Library, and
>>> sometimes at events at the schools ( Town Meeting, eg), and Winter Carnival.
>>> …just a few examples.
>>>
>>>
>>> …just a reality check.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On Oct 7, 2023, at 6:05 AM, Anne Sobol  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> The Twisted Tree at DeCordova was open last night from 5-9. I arrived at
>>> 6 and was disappointed not to see anyone in my age group (over 75), but I
>>> bought an interesting non-alcoholic drink and went out on the terrace to
>>> mingle with the young adults and their beautiful, active children. A woman
>>> with a lovely little daughter said she'd met me at the dump (how Lincoln!),

Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center and Last night at Twisted Tree DeCordova

2023-10-10 Thread Sara Mattes

…and, we have been encouraged to support the Mall.
There, you can get/bring coffee and sit in the various outdoor spots.
There is also “drop-in” at both Twisted Tree and Tack Room.
I see folks who sit in Twisted Tree for hours…also folks with young kids in the 
AM.
I have often been walking to Donelan’s or the bank and see someone I know and 
join them.
Do people really envision themselves going  to sit in a lobby of a building, 
just to hang out?

I suspect that is not what most are yearning for.

———
Sara Mattes

> On Oct 10, 2023, at 2:18 PM, ٍSarah Postlethwait  wrote:
> 
> According to the Library code of conduct, they have a designated coffee area 
> already and food and drinks are permitted in certain parts of the building. 
> 路‍♀️
> <5237375E-BAED-4C39-B8CC-EDF21140C6DF.jpeg>
> 
> 
> On Tue, Oct 10, 2023 at 2:03 PM sally kindleberger  > wrote:
>> But eating food in the library is not encouraged- so no coffee/goodies!
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Oct 10, 2023 at 1:55 PM Sara Mattes > > wrote:
>>> …and, one can always sit in the “tower room” near the Reference Desk and 
>>> talk.
>>> I meet/see /talk to people there,  fairly regularly.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ———
>>> 
>>> Sara Mattes
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Oct 10, 2023, at 11:36 AM, Carol Ryan >>> > wrote:

 I drop by the library often . Sometimes I plan to meet friends there. 
 Other times I see people unexpectedly. I see friends and neighbors with 
 their children. In my opinion the library is one of our town hubs. I have 
 never been told to be quiet at the library. There is one designated quiet 
 room. The library is open for many hours every week. It is cool on hot 
 days and warm on cold days. It is a beautiful building filled with natural 
 light, views to look outside and comfortable seating. It is filled with 
 books, music and there are computers for people to use.There is a gallery 
 at the Library. They even have coffee. I enjoy getting to know the 
 librarians . A few years ago we had a conversation with the head librarian 
 about the library’s quest to encourage more people to come by. Let’s use 
 it so we don’t lose it.

 Carol Ryan

 Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 10, 2023, at 11:21 AM, Linda McMillan  > wrote:
> 
> Hi Carol,
> I love our library, but reserving the Tarbell Room doesn’t meet the need 
> of those who just want to drop in and see who is there, hang out a bit 
> and socialize. Plus, going to an event is very different from seeing 
> people on a day-to-day basis without a special event that causes lots of 
> people to show up. Sometimes, folks don’t feel like going to “an event”. 
> I think a Community Building would serve this unique need, in my opinion.
> 
> Linda McMillan
> 
>> On Oct 9, 2023, at 8:35 PM, Carol Ryan > > wrote:
>> 
>> There are many different spaces at our wonderful library . Some are 
>> designated as quiet space others are not. It’s a great place to meet 
>> with friends or bump into neighbors. You can reserve the Tarbell Room 
>> for free! Lovely gathering spot outside as well.
>> 
>> Carol Ryan
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 9, 2023, at 5:01 PM, Linda McMillan >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> At the library, you are supposed to be quiet, not talking and chatting 
>>> with folks. It’s for reading.
>>> 
 On Oct 7, 2023, at 11:43 AM, Sara Mattes >>> > wrote:

 What is the likelihood you would meet any of these folks at a Hartwell 
 CC, between the hours of 9:30 AM and 3:30 PM?

 We meet at events like you have just described - at DeCordova, at 
 Pierce House ( First Day, 4 th of July), at Codman Farm, at the 
 Library, and sometimes at events at the schools ( Town Meeting, eg), 
 and Winter Carnival.
 …just a few examples.

 …just a reality check.

 Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 7, 2023, at 6:05 AM, Anne Sobol  > wrote:
> 
> 
> The Twisted Tree at DeCordova was open last night from 5-9. I arrived 
> at 6 and was disappointed not to see anyone in my age group (over 
> 75), but I bought an interesting non-alcoholic drink and went out on 
> the terrace to mingle with the young adults and their beautiful, 
> active children. A woman with a lovely little daughter said she'd met 
> me at the dump (how Lincoln!), and we commenced to talk about how we 
> had both grown up in Lincoln (I in the '50's, she I think she said in 
> the '90's). We both had

Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center and Last night at Twisted Tree DeCordova

Yes just checked in with Melissa the head librarian . Covered drinks and food is allowed in every space except the computer area and historic archives. If a cafe is where people want to meet why not go to Twisted Tree or Decordova. You might actually bump into a friend or two from another town. I doubt this will happen at a community center on the school property.Carol RyanSent from my iPhoneOn Oct 10, 2023, at 2:18 PM, ٍSarah Postlethwait wrote:According to the Library code of conduct, they have a designated coffee area already and food and drinks are permitted in certain parts of the building. 路‍♀️<5237375E-BAED-4C39-B8CC-EDF21140C6DF.jpeg>On Tue, Oct 10, 2023 at 2:03 PM sally kindleberger wrote:But eating food in the library is not encouraged- so no coffee/goodies!On Tue, Oct 10, 2023 at 1:55 PM Sara Mattes wrote:…and, one can always sit in the “tower room” near the Reference Desk and talk.I meet/see /talk to people there, fairly regularly.
———Sara Mattes

On Oct 10, 2023, at 11:36 AM, Carol Ryan wrote:I drop by the library often . Sometimes I plan to meet friends there. Other times I see people unexpectedly. I see friends and neighbors with their children. In my opinion the library is one of our town hubs. I have never been told to be quiet at the library. There is one designated quiet room. The library is open for many hours every week. It is cool on hot days and warm on cold days. It is a beautiful building filled with natural light, views to look outside and comfortable seating. It is filled with books, music and there are computers for people to use.There is a gallery at the Library. They even have coffee. I enjoy getting to know the librarians . A few years ago we had a conversation with the head librarian about the library’s quest to encourage more people to come by. Let’s use it so we don’t lose it.Carol RyanSent from my iPhoneOn Oct 10, 2023, at 11:21 AM, Linda McMillan wrote:Hi Carol,I love our library, but reserving the Tarbell Room doesn’t meet the need of those who just want to drop in and see who is there, hang out a bit and socialize. Plus, going to an event is very different from seeing people on a day-to-day basis without a special event that causes lots of people to show up. Sometimes, folks don’t feel like going to “an event”. I think a Community Building would serve this unique need, in my opinion.Linda McMillanOn Oct 9, 2023, at 8:35 PM, Carol Ryan wrote:There are many different spaces at our wonderful library . Some are designated as quiet space others are not. It’s a great place to meet with friends or bump into neighbors. You can reserve the Tarbell Room for free! Lovely gathering spot outside as well.Carol RyanSent from my iPhoneOn Oct 9, 2023, at 5:01 PM, Linda McMillan wrote:At the library, you are supposed to be quiet, not talking and chatting with folks. It’s for reading.On Oct 7, 2023, at 11:43 AM, Sara Mattes wrote:What is the likelihood you would meet any of these folks at a Hartwell CC, between the hours of 9:30 AM and 3:30 PM?We meet at events like you have just described - at DeCordova, at Pierce House ( First Day, 4 th of July), at Codman Farm, at the Library, and sometimes at events at the schools ( Town Meeting, eg), and Winter Carnival.…just a few examples.…just a reality check.Sent from my iPadOn Oct 7, 2023, at 6:05 AM, Anne Sobol wrote:The Twisted Tree at DeCordova was open last night from 5-9. I arrived at 6 and was disappointed not to see anyone in my age group (over 75), but I bought an interesting non-alcoholic drink and went out on the terrace to mingle with the young adults and their beautiful, active children. A woman with a lovely little daughter said she'd met me at the dump (how Lincoln!), and we commenced to talk about how we had both grown up in Lincoln (I in the '50's, she I think she said in the '90's). We both had lived in California when Covid hit in 2020, and ended up moving back to Lincoln. She told me about her work and we discussed how we found Lincoln after living in California. She asked me for my contact info and we agreed to get together for coffee in the future.I went into the shop to get a plastic cup for the remains of my drink, and struck up conversation with a man and his wife, both more or less my age, who were waiting in line (the only other people my age I saw while I was there, they in the company of their family and small children). He was into the Hanscom expansion opposition, and we had an animated conversation until I felt I had to leave to get ready for a trip in the morning. We exchanged info about where we lived and they invited me to stop by.When people ask me what I want in a Community Center, I say a place to meet people without a specific date. This is what I got at the Twisted Tree DeCordova last night. I haven't related to

Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center and Last night at Twisted Tree DeCordova

I am pretty sure you can have coffee and a (byo) pastry downstairs or in the Tarbell room. Let’s ask the librarians . Maybe they would encourage and or provide this for a small fee.Carol RyanSent from my iPhoneOn Oct 10, 2023, at 2:03 PM, sally kindleberger wrote:But eating food in the library is not encouraged- so no coffee/goodies!On Tue, Oct 10, 2023 at 1:55 PM Sara Mattes wrote:…and, one can always sit in the “tower room” near the Reference Desk and talk.I meet/see /talk to people there, fairly regularly.
———Sara Mattes

Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center and Last night at Twisted Tree DeCordova

2023-10-10 Thread sally kindleberger

But eating food in the library is not encouraged- so no coffee/goodies!


On Tue, Oct 10, 2023 at 1:55 PM Sara Mattes  wrote:

> …and, one can always sit in the “tower room” near the Reference Desk and
> talk.
> I meet/see /talk to people there,  fairly regularly.
>
>
> ———
>
> Sara Mattes
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 10, 2023, at 11:36 AM, Carol Ryan  wrote:
>
> I drop by the library often . Sometimes I plan to meet friends there.
> Other times I see people unexpectedly. I see friends and neighbors with
> their children. In my opinion the library is one of our town hubs. I have
> never been told to be quiet at the library. There is one designated quiet
> room. The library is open for many hours every week. It is cool on hot days
> and warm on cold days. It is a beautiful building filled with natural
> light, views to look outside and comfortable seating. It is filled with
> books, music and there are computers for people to use.There is a gallery
> at the Library. They even have coffee. I enjoy getting to know the
> librarians . A few years ago we had a conversation with the head librarian
> about the library’s quest to encourage more people to come by. Let’s use it
> so we don’t lose it.
>
> Carol Ryan
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 10, 2023, at 11:21 AM, Linda McMillan 
> wrote:
>
> Hi Carol,
> I love our library, but reserving the Tarbell Room doesn’t meet the need
> of those who just want to drop in and see who is there, hang out a bit and
> socialize. Plus, going to an event is very different from seeing people on
> a day-to-day basis without a special event that causes lots of people to
> show up. Sometimes, folks don’t feel like going to “an event”. I think a
> Community Building would serve this unique need, in my opinion.
>
> Linda McMillan
>
> On Oct 9, 2023, at 8:35 PM, Carol Ryan  wrote:
>
> There are many different spaces at our wonderful library . Some are
> designated as quiet space others are not. It’s a great place to meet with
> friends or bump into neighbors. You can reserve the Tarbell Room for free!
> Lovely gathering spot outside as well.
>
> Carol Ryan
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 9, 2023, at 5:01 PM, Linda McMillan 
> wrote:
>
> At the library, you are supposed to be quiet, not talking and chatting
> with folks. It’s for reading.
>
> On Oct 7, 2023, at 11:43 AM, Sara Mattes  wrote:
>
> What is the likelihood you would meet any of these folks at a Hartwell CC,
> between the hours of 9:30 AM and 3:30 PM?
>
> We meet at events like you have just described - at DeCordova, at Pierce
> House ( First Day, 4 th of July), at Codman Farm, at the Library, and
> sometimes at events at the schools ( Town Meeting, eg), and Winter Carnival.
> …just a few examples.
>
>
> …just a reality check.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Oct 7, 2023, at 6:05 AM, Anne Sobol  wrote:
>
> 
> The Twisted Tree at DeCordova was open last night from 5-9. I arrived at 6
> and was disappointed not to see anyone in my age group (over 75), but I
> bought an interesting non-alcoholic drink and went out on the terrace to
> mingle with the young adults and their beautiful, active children. A woman
> with a lovely little daughter said she'd met me at the dump (how Lincoln!),
> and we commenced to talk about how we had both grown up in Lincoln (I in
> the '50's, she I think she said in the '90's). We both had lived in
> California when Covid hit in 2020, and ended up moving back to Lincoln. She
> told me about her work and we discussed how we found Lincoln after living
> in California. She asked me for my contact info and we agreed to get
> together for coffee in the future.
>
> I went into the shop to get a plastic cup for the remains of my drink, and
> struck up conversation with a man and his wife, both more or less my age,
> who were waiting in line (the only other people my age I saw while I was
> there, they in the company of their family and small children). He was into
> the Hanscom expansion opposition, and we had an animated conversation until
> I felt I had to leave to get ready for a trip in the morning. We exchanged
> info about where we lived and they invited me to stop by.
>
> When people ask me what I want in a Community Center, I say a place to
> meet people without a specific date. This is what I got at the Twisted Tree
> DeCordova last night. I haven't related to the often-mentioned notion of
> intergenerational mixing in the context of a Community Center, but I
> enjoyed last night mixing with younger people and their children.
> --
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/
> .
> Change your subscription settings at
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>
> --
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/
> .
> Change your subscription settings at
>

Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center and Last night at Twisted Tree DeCordova

2023-10-10 Thread Sara Mattes

…and, one can always sit in the “tower room” near the Reference Desk and talk.
I meet/see /talk to people there,  fairly regularly.


———
Sara Mattes




> On Oct 10, 2023, at 11:36 AM, Carol Ryan  wrote:
> 
> I drop by the library often . Sometimes I plan to meet friends there. Other 
> times I see people unexpectedly. I see friends and neighbors with their 
> children. In my opinion the library is one of our town hubs. I have never 
> been told to be quiet at the library. There is one designated quiet room. The 
> library is open for many hours every week. It is cool on hot days and warm on 
> cold days. It is a beautiful building filled with natural light, views to 
> look outside and comfortable seating. It is filled with books, music and 
> there are computers for people to use.There is a gallery at the Library. They 
> even have coffee. I enjoy getting to know the librarians . A few years ago we 
> had a conversation with the head librarian about the library’s quest to 
> encourage more people to come by. Let’s use it so we don’t lose it.
> 
> Carol Ryan
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 10, 2023, at 11:21 AM, Linda McMillan  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Carol,
>> I love our library, but reserving the Tarbell Room doesn’t meet the need of 
>> those who just want to drop in and see who is there, hang out a bit and 
>> socialize. Plus, going to an event is very different from seeing people on a 
>> day-to-day basis without a special event that causes lots of people to show 
>> up. Sometimes, folks don’t feel like going to “an event”. I think a 
>> Community Building would serve this unique need, in my opinion.
>> 
>> Linda McMillan
>> 
>>> On Oct 9, 2023, at 8:35 PM, Carol Ryan  wrote:
>>> 
>>> There are many different spaces at our wonderful library . Some are 
>>> designated as quiet space others are not. It’s a great place to meet with 
>>> friends or bump into neighbors. You can reserve the Tarbell Room for free! 
>>> Lovely gathering spot outside as well.
>>> 
>>> Carol Ryan
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Oct 9, 2023, at 5:01 PM, Linda McMillan  
 wrote:
 
 At the library, you are supposed to be quiet, not talking and chatting 
 with folks. It’s for reading.
 
> On Oct 7, 2023, at 11:43 AM, Sara Mattes  wrote:
> 
> What is the likelihood you would meet any of these folks at a Hartwell 
> CC, between the hours of 9:30 AM and 3:30 PM?
> 
> We meet at events like you have just described - at DeCordova, at Pierce 
> House ( First Day, 4 th of July), at Codman Farm, at the Library, and 
> sometimes at events at the schools ( Town Meeting, eg), and Winter 
> Carnival.
> …just a few examples.
> 
> 
> …just a reality check.
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Oct 7, 2023, at 6:05 AM, Anne Sobol  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> The Twisted Tree at DeCordova was open last night from 5-9. I arrived at 
>> 6 and was disappointed not to see anyone in my age group (over 75), but 
>> I bought an interesting non-alcoholic drink and went out on the terrace 
>> to mingle with the young adults and their beautiful, active children. A 
>> woman with a lovely little daughter said she'd met me at the dump (how 
>> Lincoln!), and we commenced to talk about how we had both grown up in 
>> Lincoln (I in the '50's, she I think she said in the '90's). We both had 
>> lived in California when Covid hit in 2020, and ended up moving back to 
>> Lincoln. She told me about her work and we discussed how we found 
>> Lincoln after living in California. She asked me for my contact info and 
>> we agreed to get together for coffee in the future.
>> 
>> I went into the shop to get a plastic cup for the remains of my drink, 
>> and struck up conversation with a man and his wife, both more or less my 
>> age, who were waiting in line (the only other people my age I saw while 
>> I was there, they in the company of their family and small children). He 
>> was into the Hanscom expansion opposition, and we had an animated 
>> conversation until I felt I had to leave to get ready for a trip in the 
>> morning. We exchanged info about where we lived and they invited me to 
>> stop by.
>> 
>> When people ask me what I want in a Community Center, I say a place to 
>> meet people without a specific date. This is what I got at the Twisted 
>> Tree DeCordova last night. I haven't related to the often-mentioned 
>> notion of intergenerational mixing in the context of a Community Center, 
>> but I enjoyed last night mixing with younger people and their children.
>> -- 
>> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
>> Browse the archives at 
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
>> Change your subscription settings at 
>>

Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center and Last night at Twisted Tree DeCordova

2023-10-10 Thread ٍSarah Postlethwait

We have a variety of places for unstructured spur of the moment meeting
spaces.
•The library
•Decordova museum and cafe- free admission for Lincoln residents!
•Codman farm grocery store
•twisted tree
•the tack room
•Drumlin Farm
•3 playgrounds at the school


If these places that offer more than just an empty room with chairs are not
exceeding their capacity- why do we think that a 25 million dollar
community center would draw people in just to hang out? And If we do think
a community center would attract residents- wouldn’t that also make these
other meeting places lose business?

Building a community center for the purpose of a cozy gathering space at
the cost of a $725 a year tax increase for the median 1.2 million dollar
home in Lincoln seems to be a very fiscally irresponsible choice on many
levels.

Take that money and spend it at a local business instead…
you could meet a friend at twisted tree and spend $14 on coffee and a
sandwich once a week for a year for the same price…
 or get a $30 meal twice a month at the tack room…
 or visit the library every day and still have $725 a year in your pocket.

How about we donate a Keurig to the library and save ourselves $25 million
dollars? Sounds like a win / win!



On Tue, Oct 10, 2023 at 12:10 PM Linda McMillan 
wrote:

> I’d be interested to hear from others if they think the library is a good
> substitute for a community gathering space in a new Community Center. In
> other words, is the town’s need for a cozy, comfortable, spur-of-the-moment
> gathering space already met because they can use the library? Or, would
> such a space in a new Community Center fill a void?
>
> On Oct 10, 2023, at 11:36 AM, Carol Ryan  wrote:
>
> I drop by the library often . Sometimes I plan to meet friends there.
> Other times I see people unexpectedly. I see friends and neighbors with
> their children. In my opinion the library is one of our town hubs. I have
> never been told to be quiet at the library. There is one designated quiet
> room. The library is open for many hours every week. It is cool on hot days
> and warm on cold days. It is a beautiful building filled with natural
> light, views to look outside and comfortable seating. It is filled with
> books, music and there are computers for people to use.There is a gallery
> at the Library. They even have coffee. I enjoy getting to know the
> librarians . A few years ago we had a conversation with the head librarian
> about the library’s quest to encourage more people to come by. Let’s use it
> so we don’t lose it.
>
> Carol Ryan
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 10, 2023, at 11:21 AM, Linda McMillan 
> wrote:
>
> Hi Carol,
> I love our library, but reserving the Tarbell Room doesn’t meet the need
> of those who just want to drop in and see who is there, hang out a bit and
> socialize. Plus, going to an event is very different from seeing people on
> a day-to-day basis without a special event that causes lots of people to
> show up. Sometimes, folks don’t feel like going to “an event”. I think a
> Community Building would serve this unique need, in my opinion.
>
> Linda McMillan
>
> On Oct 9, 2023, at 8:35 PM, Carol Ryan  wrote:
>
> There are many different spaces at our wonderful library . Some are
> designated as quiet space others are not. It’s a great place to meet with
> friends or bump into neighbors. You can reserve the Tarbell Room for free!
> Lovely gathering spot outside as well.
>
> Carol Ryan
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 9, 2023, at 5:01 PM, Linda McMillan 
> wrote:
>
> At the library, you are supposed to be quiet, not talking and chatting
> with folks. It’s for reading.
>
> On Oct 7, 2023, at 11:43 AM, Sara Mattes  wrote:
>
> What is the likelihood you would meet any of these folks at a Hartwell CC,
> between the hours of 9:30 AM and 3:30 PM?
>
> We meet at events like you have just described - at DeCordova, at Pierce
> House ( First Day, 4 th of July), at Codman Farm, at the Library, and
> sometimes at events at the schools ( Town Meeting, eg), and Winter Carnival.
> …just a few examples.
>
>
> …just a reality check.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Oct 7, 2023, at 6:05 AM, Anne Sobol  wrote:
>
> 
> The Twisted Tree at DeCordova was open last night from 5-9. I arrived at 6
> and was disappointed not to see anyone in my age group (over 75), but I
> bought an interesting non-alcoholic drink and went out on the terrace to
> mingle with the young adults and their beautiful, active children. A woman
> with a lovely little daughter said she'd met me at the dump (how Lincoln!),
> and we commenced to talk about how we had both grown up in Lincoln (I in
> the '50's, she I think she said in the '90's). We both had lived in
> California when Covid hit in 2020, and ended up moving back to Lincoln. She
> told me about her work and we discussed how we found Lincoln after living
> in California. She asked me for my contact info and we agreed to get
> together for coffee in the future.
>
> I went into the

Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center and Last night at Twisted Tree DeCordova

I am not suggesting that the library meets all the criteria that a
new building might provide. I just wonder if we consider what the town already 
has if the new build may perhaps find some compromises and be designed to 
provide just what the town actually needs .
Thanks, Carol Ryan

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 10, 2023, at 12:10 PM, Linda McMillan  wrote:
> 
> I’d be interested to hear from others if they think the library is a good 
> substitute for a community gathering space in a new Community Center. In 
> other words, is the town’s need for a cozy, comfortable, spur-of-the-moment 
> gathering space already met because they can use the library? Or, would such 
> a space in a new Community Center fill a void?
> 
>> On Oct 10, 2023, at 11:36 AM, Carol Ryan  wrote:
>> 
>> I drop by the library often . Sometimes I plan to meet friends there. Other 
>> times I see people unexpectedly. I see friends and neighbors with their 
>> children. In my opinion the library is one of our town hubs. I have never 
>> been told to be quiet at the library. There is one designated quiet room. 
>> The library is open for many hours every week. It is cool on hot days and 
>> warm on cold days. It is a beautiful building filled with natural light, 
>> views to look outside and comfortable seating. It is filled with books, 
>> music and there are computers for people to use.There is a gallery at the 
>> Library. They even have coffee. I enjoy getting to know the librarians . A 
>> few years ago we had a conversation with the head librarian about the 
>> library’s quest to encourage more people to come by. Let’s use it so we 
>> don’t lose it.
>> 
>> Carol Ryan
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Oct 10, 2023, at 11:21 AM, Linda McMillan  
 wrote:
 
>>> Hi Carol,
>>> I love our library, but reserving the Tarbell Room doesn’t meet the need of 
>>> those who just want to drop in and see who is there, hang out a bit and 
>>> socialize. Plus, going to an event is very different from seeing people on 
>>> a day-to-day basis without a special event that causes lots of people to 
>>> show up. Sometimes, folks don’t feel like going to “an event”. I think a 
>>> Community Building would serve this unique need, in my opinion.
>>> 
>>> Linda McMillan
>>> 
 On Oct 9, 2023, at 8:35 PM, Carol Ryan  wrote:
 
 There are many different spaces at our wonderful library . Some are 
 designated as quiet space others are not. It’s a great place to meet with 
 friends or bump into neighbors. You can reserve the Tarbell Room for free! 
 Lovely gathering spot outside as well.
 
 Carol Ryan
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
>> On Oct 9, 2023, at 5:01 PM, Linda McMillan  
>> wrote:
>> 
> At the library, you are supposed to be quiet, not talking and chatting 
> with folks. It’s for reading.
> 
>> On Oct 7, 2023, at 11:43 AM, Sara Mattes  wrote:
>> 
>> What is the likelihood you would meet any of these folks at a Hartwell 
>> CC, between the hours of 9:30 AM and 3:30 PM?
>> 
>> We meet at events like you have just described - at DeCordova, at Pierce 
>> House ( First Day, 4 th of July), at Codman Farm, at the Library, and 
>> sometimes at events at the schools ( Town Meeting, eg), and Winter 
>> Carnival.
>> …just a few examples.
>> 
>> 
>> …just a reality check.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
 On Oct 7, 2023, at 6:05 AM, Anne Sobol  wrote:
 
>>> 
>>> The Twisted Tree at DeCordova was open last night from 5-9. I arrived 
>>> at 6 and was disappointed not to see anyone in my age group (over 75), 
>>> but I bought an interesting non-alcoholic drink and went out on the 
>>> terrace to mingle with the young adults and their beautiful, active 
>>> children. A woman with a lovely little daughter said she'd met me at 
>>> the dump (how Lincoln!), and we commenced to talk about how we had both 
>>> grown up in Lincoln (I in the '50's, she I think she said in the 
>>> '90's). We both had lived in California when Covid hit in 2020, and 
>>> ended up moving back to Lincoln. She told me about her work and we 
>>> discussed how we found Lincoln after living in California. She asked me 
>>> for my contact info and we agreed to get together for coffee in the 
>>> future.
>>> 
>>> I went into the shop to get a plastic cup for the remains of my drink, 
>>> and struck up conversation with a man and his wife, both more or less 
>>> my age, who were waiting in line (the only other people my age I saw 
>>> while I was there, they in the company of their family and small 
>>> children). He was into the Hanscom expansion opposition, and we had an 
>>> animated conversation until I felt I had to leave to get ready for a 
>>> trip in the morning. We exchanged info about where we lived and they 
>>> invited me to stop by.
>>>

Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center and Last night at Twisted Tree DeCordova

2023-10-10 Thread Linda McMillan

I’d be interested to hear from others if they think the library is a good 
substitute for a community gathering space in a new Community Center. In other 
words, is the town’s need for a cozy, comfortable, spur-of-the-moment gathering 
space already met because they can use the library? Or, would such a space in a 
new Community Center fill a void?

> On Oct 10, 2023, at 11:36 AM, Carol Ryan  wrote:
> 
> I drop by the library often . Sometimes I plan to meet friends there. Other 
> times I see people unexpectedly. I see friends and neighbors with their 
> children. In my opinion the library is one of our town hubs. I have never 
> been told to be quiet at the library. There is one designated quiet room. The 
> library is open for many hours every week. It is cool on hot days and warm on 
> cold days. It is a beautiful building filled with natural light, views to 
> look outside and comfortable seating. It is filled with books, music and 
> there are computers for people to use.There is a gallery at the Library. They 
> even have coffee. I enjoy getting to know the librarians . A few years ago we 
> had a conversation with the head librarian about the library’s quest to 
> encourage more people to come by. Let’s use it so we don’t lose it.
> 
> Carol Ryan
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 10, 2023, at 11:21 AM, Linda McMillan  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Carol,
>> I love our library, but reserving the Tarbell Room doesn’t meet the need of 
>> those who just want to drop in and see who is there, hang out a bit and 
>> socialize. Plus, going to an event is very different from seeing people on a 
>> day-to-day basis without a special event that causes lots of people to show 
>> up. Sometimes, folks don’t feel like going to “an event”. I think a 
>> Community Building would serve this unique need, in my opinion.
>> 
>> Linda McMillan
>> 
>>> On Oct 9, 2023, at 8:35 PM, Carol Ryan  wrote:
>>> 
>>> There are many different spaces at our wonderful library . Some are 
>>> designated as quiet space others are not. It’s a great place to meet with 
>>> friends or bump into neighbors. You can reserve the Tarbell Room for free! 
>>> Lovely gathering spot outside as well.
>>> 
>>> Carol Ryan
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Oct 9, 2023, at 5:01 PM, Linda McMillan  
 wrote:
 
 At the library, you are supposed to be quiet, not talking and chatting 
 with folks. It’s for reading.
 
> On Oct 7, 2023, at 11:43 AM, Sara Mattes  wrote:
> 
> What is the likelihood you would meet any of these folks at a Hartwell 
> CC, between the hours of 9:30 AM and 3:30 PM?
> 
> We meet at events like you have just described - at DeCordova, at Pierce 
> House ( First Day, 4 th of July), at Codman Farm, at the Library, and 
> sometimes at events at the schools ( Town Meeting, eg), and Winter 
> Carnival.
> …just a few examples.
> 
> 
> …just a reality check.
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Oct 7, 2023, at 6:05 AM, Anne Sobol  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> The Twisted Tree at DeCordova was open last night from 5-9. I arrived at 
>> 6 and was disappointed not to see anyone in my age group (over 75), but 
>> I bought an interesting non-alcoholic drink and went out on the terrace 
>> to mingle with the young adults and their beautiful, active children. A 
>> woman with a lovely little daughter said she'd met me at the dump (how 
>> Lincoln!), and we commenced to talk about how we had both grown up in 
>> Lincoln (I in the '50's, she I think she said in the '90's). We both had 
>> lived in California when Covid hit in 2020, and ended up moving back to 
>> Lincoln. She told me about her work and we discussed how we found 
>> Lincoln after living in California. She asked me for my contact info and 
>> we agreed to get together for coffee in the future.
>> 
>> I went into the shop to get a plastic cup for the remains of my drink, 
>> and struck up conversation with a man and his wife, both more or less my 
>> age, who were waiting in line (the only other people my age I saw while 
>> I was there, they in the company of their family and small children). He 
>> was into the Hanscom expansion opposition, and we had an animated 
>> conversation until I felt I had to leave to get ready for a trip in the 
>> morning. We exchanged info about where we lived and they invited me to 
>> stop by.
>> 
>> When people ask me what I want in a Community Center, I say a place to 
>> meet people without a specific date. This is what I got at the Twisted 
>> Tree DeCordova last night. I haven't related to the often-mentioned 
>> notion of intergenerational mixing in the context of a Community Center, 
>> but I enjoyed last night mixing with younger people and their children.
>> -- 
>> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
>> To post, send mail to

Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center and Last night at Twisted Tree DeCordova