Re: [newbie] Complete failure
On Friday 05 December 2003 04:05 am, John Richard Smith wrote: Today I had a complete computer failure, nothing, not even a bios boot screen. I downloaded a whole batch of emails, dealt with them, and went away leaving d4x downloading a file. When I came back, nothing but a blank screen, I touched a key, and a mandrake boot script appears, hung at fsck, y/n , I say yes, it completes the fsck and then hangs again.Nothing further , just a blank black screen , no script at all. Panic, Ctrl+alt+del ineffective alt+SysRq+B ineffective Have to shut power off(reset buttlon ineffectual) I power up again, and nothing but a blank black screen not even a bios boot screen, and in addition 4 red LED mobo display which manual say's 4 RED LED's = System Power On, The D-LED will hang here if processor is damaged or not installed Properly. This suggest's that it's curtains for my processor, AMD Athlon Palamino, but before I condem it and go rushing off to replace it I thought I had better ask first if there is anything I should do to test it first. Any suggestions welcomed, as this is my first processor failure. Got to www.directron.com and check out their troubleshooting stuff in the support area. It is a great help in this kind of thing...it helped me in a similar situation. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure (Now completely OT)
On Monday 08 Dec 2003 7:18 pm, Alan Dunford wrote: On Monday 08 Dec 2003 6:43 pm, Richard Urwin wrote: On Monday 08 Dec 2003 8:19 am, John Richard Smith wrote: UK domestic is 240v can vary between 230/250 v(meaning it's allowed) but I have never experienced in my lifetime much variation from 240v 50cycles/min. Cycles per second ? Ewww, that answer hertz ;-) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
On Monday 08 Dec 2003 10:26 am, Derek Jennings wrote: Actually I thought the UK and most all of Europe was 250v. The US probly would be too, but you need to remember we invented the light bulb :) And that was so long ago, and with competing AC and DC distributions in the beginning, that now were just glad it all finally got settled ... even tho were underpowered as a result. Too damn much to change out now to switch. Ohh you got me going there. As with so many other of Edison's 'inventions' the light bulb was not invented by Edison at all. The city of Newcastle in England had public electric lighting before Edison 'invented' the lightbulb. What Edison did do was perfect a longer lasting filament for the electric lightbulb. http://www.maxmon.com/1878ad.htm And no. We do not use 250V in Europe. The UK is nominally 240V 50Hz, while continental Europe is mostly nominally 220V 50Hz The reasonably short lengths of transmission lines, few electrical storms, and very tight regulation of the generating industry here means that the supply is rarely out of spec and damage to electrical equipment is rare. I personally do not know anyone who filters their computers power supply. Except if you live in a rural or semi-rural area. Some of power lines are still overhead cables, and they are much more susceptible to storms and suchlike. The original supply may be clean, but between the overhead lines and the definite possibility of interference from motor startups (washer, spin dryer etc) I would definitely filter any machine I depended upon. Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
Derek Jennings wrote And no. We do not use 250V in Europe. The UK is nominally 240V 50Hz, while continental Europe is mostly nominally 220V 50Hz The reasonably short lengths of transmission lines, few electrical storms, and very tight regulation of the generating industry here means that the supply is rarely out of spec and damage to electrical equipment is rare. I personally do not know anyone who filters their computers power supply. derek My assumption entirely until now. But My wife and my daughters all tell me that offices and schools do protect their computer banks with UPS, or at least something the like. So maybe just because the PC market in UK doesn't go in for it in general, maybe that is because most PC owners aren't regarded as caring that much about reliability and anyway would baulk at the cost. However I would agree that we in UK don't get much variable voltage, provided your domestic property isn't either in some remote country setting or perhaps sited next to some lonesome little industrial estate, your gonna get reliable voltage all the time. But it's the spikes in current, and those computer crashes due to even momentary power cuts that are the concern for me. If I can protect my computer(s) with an UPS for a reasonable cost it's probably worth the investment to save time and trouble, but if the cost of an adequate UPS is too high, then I will have to accept the risks. So for the moment I need to know how to judge what ratings to allow for an UPS John -- John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
On Monday 08 Dec 2003 10:30 am, John Richard Smith wrote: However I would agree that we in UK don't get much variable voltage, provided your domestic property isn't either in some remote country setting or perhaps sited next to some lonesome little industrial estate, your gonna get reliable voltage all the time. Sorry, John. This just isn't so. I'm 5-6 miles south of Huddersfield - hardly what you would call remote, and there isn't an industrial site anywhere near here. But it's the spikes in current, and those computer crashes due to even momentary power cuts that are the concern for me. If I can protect my computer(s) with an UPS for a reasonable cost it's probably worth the investment to save time and trouble, but if the cost of an adequate UPS is too high, then I will have to accept the risks. Momentary drops are more frequent that you would think. How do I know? Well, it's not unusual for my UPS to signal me that it has momentarily taken over, when not even the lights blinked! You certainly wouldn't notice it from clocks, etc., but it is enough to harm your computer. Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
On Sun, 2003-12-07 at 11:35, John Richard Smith wrote: Lanman wrote: John; It's continous. But the components in the power supply onlyaccept what they can manageor what they're rated for. The battery keeps this feed stable, and as a basic nature of electricity, only supplies what is needed at the time. Since it's a batteryafter all, it simply continues to store whatever is available until needed, and is constantly recharged by the wall outlet. So in a way, you could say that it is Continous Stepping that occurs, whereby the battery is the only source of electricity to the computer, but it can step up (or down ) the watts or amps to respond to the needs of the computer at any particular time. In any case, it acts as a buffer between your PC or electrical device, and the variable power that your power company can provide. OK, things are becoming much clearer now. I guess then you buy an UPS, plug it in, and plug your compuers into the UPS. So ought I to seek an UPS that can handle 3 computers(physically awkward) , or should I buy 3 individual UPS , or more particularly one to start with so that I can figure out how it all works. Best thing probably to do is to go with a Star Trek style Borg topology with multiple redundancies; in other words seperate distributed UPS's. That will reduce your wiring requirements while at the same time insuring that you won't have all computers losing their backup power simultaneously. I wonder what power supply size is minimal for one computer ? John That depends on how long you would like the UPS to operate your computer when the power goes out, as well as the power consumption of the power supply and monitor. If you want some operating time, I would suggest taking into account the monitor's power requirements as well, so if the power goes down you can see what you are doing for an hour or more. LX -- °°° Linux Mandrake 9.1 Kernel 2.4.21-0.13mdk Lets face it if winblowz wasn't full of holes then it would probably look like Linux -- Aron Smith, Mandrake OT mailing list *Catch Star Trek Enterprise, Wednesdays on UPN* Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
On Monday 08 December 2003 10:26 am, Derek Jennings wrote: Ohh you got me going there. As with so many other of Edison's 'inventions' the light bulb was not invented by Edison at all. The city of Newcastle in England had public electric lighting before Edison 'invented' the lightbulb. What Edison did do was perfect a longer lasting filament for the electric lightbulb. http://www.maxmon.com/1878ad.htm And no. We do not use 250V in Europe. The UK is nominally 240V 50Hz, while continental Europe is mostly nominally 220V 50Hz The reasonably short lengths of transmission lines, few electrical storms, and very tight regulation of the generating industry here means that the supply is rarely out of spec and damage to electrical equipment is rare. I personally do not know anyone who filters their computers power supply. derek Sounds reasonable. BTW, my lightbulb remark was meant to be tongue in cheek ;) Fact remains that residential power in the US sux. Transmission into the neiborhoods is generally 440v 60Hz, but stepped down to 110v for residential use. We'd be much better off with European or UK style residential type systems. But it's way too late to change now. An UPS is a must have here, to cover brownouts more than outages. Particularly in rural areas. -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure (Now completely OT)
On Monday 08 Dec 2003 8:19 am, John Richard Smith wrote: UK domestic is 240v can vary between 230/250 v(meaning it's allowed) but I have never experienced in my lifetime much variation from 240v 50cycles/min. Yep, 240V, I just measured it (239V at this moment.) I strangely remembered that it had been shifted down closer to the EU levels. UK industrial is mainly 480v 3 phase, that is all the heavy stuff, everything else is single phase 240v like domestic. pedantic note: 440V, it's 120 degrees out of phase, not 180. That'll teach me to post off the top of my head. My fuses are 2x5A (lights), 2x30A (sockets) and 1x15A (water heater.) The oven is only 2.7kW, so it's on the normal ring. I misremembered the big sealed fuse too, it's 100A. Remember that in the US, the lower voltage means you will need over twice the current for the same power. Here 13A is 3.12kW, over there it would have to be 28.36A for the same power. -- Richard Urwin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
On Monday 08 December 2003 05:26 am, Derek Jennings wrote: DJ Ohh you got me going there. DJ As with so many other of Edison's 'inventions' the light bulb was not invented DJ by Edison at all. DJ The city of Newcastle in England had public electric lighting before Edison DJ 'invented' the lightbulb. DJ What Edison did do was perfect a longer lasting filament for the electric DJ lightbulb. Off topic, so I apologize in advance, but if you really want to get a real eye opener, go to google and do tesla vs edison (or vice versa). Both deserve kudos, but while Edison is a nuts and bolts/trial and error kind of guy, well...Tesla is the wiley coyote s genius! :-) -- /\ DarkLord \/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure (Now completely OT)
On Monday 08 Dec 2003 6:43 pm, Richard Urwin wrote: On Monday 08 Dec 2003 8:19 am, John Richard Smith wrote: UK domestic is 240v can vary between 230/250 v(meaning it's allowed) but I have never experienced in my lifetime much variation from 240v 50cycles/min. Cycles per second ? -- Alan Dunford [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mandrake Linux 9.2 A 100% Microsoft-free computer Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 12:29:10 + Anne Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 08 Dec 2003 10:30 am, John Richard Smith wrote: However I would agree that we in UK don't get much variable voltage, provided your domestic property isn't either in some remote country setting or perhaps sited next to some lonesome little industrial estate, your gonna get reliable voltage all the time. Sorry, John. This just isn't so. I'm 5-6 miles south of Huddersfield - hardly what you would call remote, and there isn't an industrial site anywhere near here. I have a friend from India that would consider all of these good systems! When he was growing up, they would experience hours or even days where the voltage would drop so much that the lights were dim. They had variacs (i think) to bump up (or down) the voltage to correct for it... eric -- Mandrake HowTo's More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
On Saturday 06 Dec 2003 7:24 pm, John Richard Smith wrote: Carroll Grigsby wrote: John: Neither one. The first one is just a PSU; the second one is probably way too big for your needs. (But then, I don't know what your needs are, do I?) That puppy should be able to back up five or six workstations without breaking a sweat. I went through this exercise last year, and ended up with a 525 VA Belkin. I would have preferred an APC, as they work right out of the box with Linux, but the Belkin did a better job of matching up with some hardware constraints that I had. IIRC, it cost about $135. It has sufficient reserve to keep my system up for something like ten minutes -- adequate to do finish up whatever I'm doing and shut down. A couple of things to look for: Either USB or serial feedback -- this will allow you to monitor the state of the batteries (hence the need for Linux support), separate ports for such non-essential devices as speakers and printers (these will have surge protection, but not power backup), and, if you have a modem, a protected telephone line. I went to the liebert site (http://www.liebert-hiross.com/), and found some appropriate units clicking down through UPS == workstations. What I didn't find on their site was any help on sizing and selection. APC has some very good information at their site, although they may try to sell you more capacity than you may need. -- cmg Forgive my utter ignorance here. An UPS, does it sit between the ring main and each individual computer. Yes If the latter then in the case of a situation as I have , namely 4 computer within the one building, then I would have to constuct a new power supply setup so that each computer is powered off the same circuit whereever they are situated.Not an easy task for me. You can get a network UPS, but it will cost you an arm and a leg. I decided that most of the computers here are only on when being used, so don't need auto-clean-shutdown. This is the 24/7 box, and I decided to get auto-shutdown for this one. So an UPS, it's basically what, a big battery that supplies mains voltage for a period while the system powers down of it's own accord, or until you power it down manually, because if the later, what happens if your not there to power it down yourself. Inexpensive ones hold it for a time - generaly 10-20 minutes, allowing you to manually shutdown. APC ones can run with apcd, which does the auto-shutdown. Also, while an UPS keeps things going for a while, does an UPS prevent damage during a power surge on start up ? Yes Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
Carroll Grigsby wrote John: Oops. Ring main? British English != American English. British Wiring Practices != American Wiring Practices. Oh well, press on... Oh , It's no big deal, Power enters your property to a junction/fuse box where it is split into a number of fuse protected ciruits that go off around the property in loops back to the junction/fuse box, So My house will have at lease ring main power downstairs ring main power upstairs ring main lights downstairs, ring main lights upstairs, in addition I have ring main attic power ring main attic lights ring main garage power ring main garage power each are seperately fused and that protects the ring main circuit. So I have a circuit in the attic where many of our computers sit, called ring main attic power. John -- John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
Tom Brinkman wrote: On Friday 05 December 2003 08:46 pm, John Richard Smith wrote: Seems to be the power supply , so I'm after a new one, hopefully more reliable one, but maybe I'm going to have to think more seriously about surge protectors if they are any good.Either that or buy a spare. John Get an Antec if you can. OK I will look into this, really, to my simple little mind all power PSU's ought to have at least a surge protector built into them, after all it's where it is really needed, all of the time , and any computer is this protected from sudden upsurges in power. If not, consult the AMD list for approved manufacturers, even for use with an Intel system. http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_869_4348^4376,00.html OK, A cheap PSU is false economy. I agree, but right now off the shelf they seem to be the only ones available, at least my local suppliers PSU's make no mention of surge protectors, and as I needed something to get back up and running I've bought a cheapie to do just that. Be aware tho that many ready made systems use proprietary connectors and power requirements, and you're stuck going to them for a replacement PSU. No problem there it seems , so far all of those available in UK seem to be identicle. Now why did the old one fail? Well sometimes they do, but many are affected as much or more by insufficient line power as by power spikes. Is that so, now that may explains a lot. My computer was downloading all by itself and when I came back it was knackered. Now it had attempted a reboot all by itself, but got stuck on the first fsck @ the y/n question. Anyway My wife says none of the electric clocks have played up , which they usually do when we do get a power cut, which is not often. But a power reduction is quite likely Better PSU's have their own built-in protection. which is what I'm now after. You can check line power easily with a VOhm meter, true, but, a) how to get your meter which has DC up to 20 V as your closest option to read acurately, b) sorting out the pins on the output plug from PSU. just stick the leads into the wall outlet you're using during periods when your neighbors are using a lot of power. Well I'm on a nice little housing estate, we all get power reliably 99% of the time, form an adequate local transformer. Another occurance is when something like the A/C, furnace, or the refridgerator kicks in. Well we have plenty of equipement that kicks in and out , like fridges, freezers, so there is a possibility The fix is to use an UPS. They are not only better at protecting from spikes than surge protectors are, they also protect against 'brownouts'. Providing steady clean power. Consider an UPS as protecting all your hardware, not just the PSU. Year, I'm reluctantly coming around to that idea. Heck all this equipement just to run a computer. Still at the end of the day, one has to balance the cost and inconvenience of installing more equipement over the cost and inconvenience of repair of burnt out equipement. I don't think I can protect everything. John -- John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
On Sunday 07 Dec 2003 9:19 am, John Richard Smith wrote: Tom Brinkman wrote: You can check line power easily with a VOhm meter, true, but, a) how to get your meter which has DC up to 20 V as your closest option to read acurately, b) sorting out the pins on the output plug from PSU. a) I use an Academy PG012 from Maplin*. In the 20V range, at 5V it gives two decimal places. You're not going to get better accuracy than that even if you find one with more digits on the display unless you send it off to a calibration lab. There will also be noise on the power line, and it will probably be in the millivolt range. b) The truth is out there. Put atx pinout into your favorite search engine. There seem to be plenty of hits, top of the list was http://xtronics.com/reference/atx_pinout.htm. Don't stare at the background for long. -- Richard Urwin *It does a lot of nice things, but doesn't measure current. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
On Sunday 07 Dec 2003 9:19 am, John Richard Smith wrote: No problem there it seems , so far all of those available in UK seem to be identicle. John - just a thought. Overclockers tend to need to be ultracareful. Have you tried looking at overclockers.com to see if they sell/recommend anything? Now why did the old one fail? Well sometimes they do, but many are affected as much or more by insufficient line power as by power spikes. Is that so, now that may explains a lot. My computer was downloading all by itself and when I came back it was knackered. We had a lot of problems where clocks etc seemed fine, where I believe that the problem was very short-lived power drops. Even cheap surge protectors seem to help in that case. Another occurance is when something like the A/C, furnace, or the refridgerator kicks in. Well we have plenty of equipement that kicks in and out , like fridges, freezers, so there is a possibility I know for a fact that some problems we had was when the washing machine started up spin cycle. That's a momentary big drain on power. Again, surge protectors on systems have helped there. I can't afford usp units for every box, but every box has some kind of protection, according to how vital the system is. Only two boxes (funnily enough, the two Mdk boxes) have a ups :-). British power companies do pretty well for general equipment's needs, but computers are more delicate, and after troubleshooting problems like yours for a long time, I've come to the conclusion that they are simply not good enough without a little help. It's then just down to how affordable you can make that protection. Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
On Sunday 07 Dec 2003 12:16 pm, John Richard Smith wrote: Richard Urwin wrote: b) The truth is out there. Put atx pinout into your favorite search engine. There seem to be plenty of hits, top of the list was http://xtronics.com/reference/atx_pinout.htm. Don't stare at the background for long. Is this a view of the Mobo socket, or the PSU plug. I donn't know ? Could be either, But the colours of the pins correspond to the wire colours. -- Richard Urwin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
Anne Wilson wrote: On Sunday 07 Dec 2003 9:19 am, John Richard Smith wrote: No problem there it seems , so far all of those available in UK seem to be identicle. John - just a thought. Overclockers tend to need to be ultracareful. Have you tried looking at overclockers.com to see if they sell/recommend anything? Now why did the old one fail? Well sometimes they do, but many are affected as much or more by insufficient line power as by power spikes. Is that so, now that may explains a lot. My computer was downloading all by itself and when I came back it was knackered. We had a lot of problems where clocks etc seemed fine, where I believe that the problem was very short-lived power drops. Even cheap surge protectors seem to help in that case. Is that so, could be then that is what happened with me, I certainly felt it to be powersupply failure at the immediate time it happened. Another occurance is when something like the A/C, furnace, or the refridgerator kicks in. Well we have plenty of equipement that kicks in and out , like fridges, freezers, so there is a possibility I know for a fact that some problems we had was when the washing machine started up spin cycle. That's a momentary big drain on power. Again, surge protectors on systems have helped there. I can't afford usp units for every box, but every box has some kind of protection, according to how vital the system is. Only two boxes (funnily enough, the two Mdk boxes) have a ups :-). Yes, and now that I've had time to think about it, I remember putting the Kettle on for my early morning cup of coffee, and it must of been right about that moment when the computer crashed. What's the betting if caused enough of a surge, or voltage drop to throw the PSU in it's unprotected state. British power companies do pretty well for general equipment's needs, but computers are more delicate, and after troubleshooting problems like yours for a long time, I've come to the conclusion that they are simply not good enough without a little help. It's then just down to how affordable you can make that protection. Clearly , it's about whether I want to, a) UPS my attic power supply, running 3 computers, and surge protect only the one. b) surge protect all 4 computers, no ups. c) just accept the risks. But taking the first option , How big an UPS do I need to protect a ring main running 3 computer, 2 printers and say 12 other minor devices like externel modems, calculators, yamaha sound keyboards,etc, et al. I come back to the question, what is an UPS ? How does it fit in, I assume an UPS is basically a battery and a control device to make it all work. I have never heard of a 250V battery, so how is 250v stored ? Do you just plug the UPS in to the ring main ? Or do you have to break into the ring main circuit and install it in some way ? Or is this all wrong ? Maybe the mains 250V is transformed into 12v, 5v,and 3.3v and sored like that and supplied to the mobo in the same way as the PSU does, in which case, how do you effect a connection to your mobo ? I only have the one socket on my mobo, and that's used by the PSU. Sorry to ask all these very elimental questions, but I have never ever seen an UPS before let alone installed one. So far the net has yielded little info about them other than where to buy then, and defining the term, UPS. John. -- John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 12:42:50 + JRS wrote: ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~snip*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ | Clearly , it's about whether I want to, | a) UPS my attic power supply, running 3 computers, and surge protect | only the one. | b) surge protect all 4 computers, no ups. | c) just accept the risks. | | But taking the first option , | How big an UPS do I need to protect a ring main running 3 computer, 2 | printers and say 12 other minor devices like externel modems, | calculators, yamaha sound keyboards,etc, et al. | | I come back to the question, what is an UPS ? | How does it fit in, | | I assume an UPS is basically a battery and a control device to make it | all work. | I have never heard of a 250V battery, so how is 250v stored ? | Do you just plug the UPS in to the ring main ? | Or do you have to break into the ring main circuit and install it in | some way ? | | Or is this all wrong ? | | Maybe the mains 250V is transformed into 12v, 5v,and 3.3v and sored | like that and supplied to the mobo in the same way as the PSU does, in | which case, how do you effect a connection to your mobo ? I only have | the one socket on my mobo, and that's used by the PSU. | | Sorry to ask all these very elimental questions, but I have never ever | seen an UPS before let alone installed one. So far the net has yielded | little info about them other than where to buy then, and defining the | term, UPS. | | | John. | | | -- | John Richard Smith | [EMAIL PROTECTED] John, Here's a link to a FAQ which has links to some manufacturers. One of them had a place to enter your system then gave a recommendation as to what size UPS would be necessary - sorry - not sure which one it was. HTH http://www.jetcafe.org/~npc/doc/ups-faq.html -- The greatest discovery of my generation is that human beings can alter their lives by altering their attitudes of mind. - William James, 1842-1910, American Psychologist, Professor, Author Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
On 12/7/2003 at 3:22 PM John Richard Smith wrote: Lanman wrote: John; The basic purpose of a UPS is to filter or condition the electrical power which your computer receives. Typically, your computer runs off of the battery inside the UPS, and a charger keeps the battery charged from the wall outlet. Thanks, So it's DC battery kept charged by a rectified transformer output , so then the UPS must have a means of stepping up voltage from whatever the DC battery stores it at, converts it back to mains AC supply voltage, in my case 230v AC and then supplies it to your computer, but does it just step in when needed or is it continuous ? -- John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** John; It's continous. But the components in the power supply only accept what they can manage or what they're rated for. The battery keeps this feed stable, and as a basic nature of electricity, only supplies what is needed at the time. Since it's a battery after all, it simply continues to store whatever is available until needed, and is constantly recharged by the wall outlet. So in a way, you could say that it is Continous Stepping that occurs, whereby the battery is the only source of electricity to the computer, but it can step up (or down ) the watts or amps to respond to the needs of the computer at any particular time. In any case, it acts as a buffer between your PC or electrical device, and the variable power that your power company can provide. If I could remember all my electrical theory from college, I'd be able to give you the in depth nuts and bolts. Lanman Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
On Sunday 07 Dec 2003 12:42 pm, John Richard Smith wrote: Anne Wilson wrote: We had a lot of problems where clocks etc seemed fine, where I believe that the problem was very short-lived power drops. Even cheap surge protectors seem to help in that case. Is that so, could be then that is what happened with me, I certainly felt it to be powersupply failure at the immediate time it happened. It may be superstition g, but I also make it a rule that no-one plugs anything of any size/power into sockets close to my computer. Generally, the power supply for my camera is the only thing that ever gets plugged into the second socket on the computer connection socket. British power companies do pretty well for general equipment's needs, but computers are more delicate, and after troubleshooting problems like yours for a long time, I've come to the conclusion that they are simply not good enough without a little help. It's then just down to how affordable you can make that protection. Clearly , it's about whether I want to, a) UPS my attic power supply, running 3 computers, and surge protect only the one. b) surge protect all 4 computers, no ups. c) just accept the risks. But taking the first option , How big an UPS do I need to protect a ring main running 3 computer, 2 printers and say 12 other minor devices like externel modems, calculators, yamaha sound keyboards,etc, et al. I wouldn't put all of them on a UPS. Surge protecters, if you buy decent ones, will probably be adequate for all your printers, modems, calculators and possibly even the keyboards, though since that is a relatively expensive item you might decide that it would be wise to put that on the UPS. I come back to the question, what is an UPS ? How does it fit in, I assume an UPS is basically a battery and a control device to make it all work. I have never heard of a 250V battery, so how is 250v stored ? Do you just plug the UPS in to the ring main ? Or do you have to break into the ring main circuit and install it in some way ? John, electrics are not my 'thing' except in a practical way g. You plug in the main unit where your main computer was previously plugged in. The equipment you need to protect are then plugged in to the back of the unit. Mine, for instance, allows 4 items to be connected. The power goes to a battery, which is continuously drained by the equipment switched on, and continually charged from the mains plug. There is generally an audio signal if the power cuts out for any reason, and most have some sort of indicator for if the power supply in the battery gets low. They really are simple to set up. As for size to take 3 computers and a keyboard, try APC's site for an indication, but when you've read it, come back with your ideas. There's sure to be someone here with experience that can tell you if you are on the right lines. Looking at CCL:'s offerings, if you need to go to 1.4Kva it would be cheaper to put individual 450Kva ones on each system. Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
Lanman wrote: John; It's continous. But the components in the power supply onlyaccept what they can manageor what they're rated for. The battery keeps this feed stable, and as a basic nature of electricity, only supplies what is needed at the time. Since it's a batteryafter all, it simply continues to store whatever is available until needed, and is constantly recharged by the wall outlet. So in a way, you could say that it is Continous Stepping that occurs, whereby the battery is the only source of electricity to the computer, but it can step up (or down ) the watts or amps to respond to the needs of the computer at any particular time. In any case, it acts as a buffer between your PC or electrical device, and the variable power that your power company can provide. OK, things are becoming much clearer now. I guess then you buy an UPS, plug it in, and plug your compuers into the UPS. So ought I to seek an UPS that can handle 3 computers(physically awkward) , or should I buy 3 individual UPS , or more particularly one to start with so that I can figure out how it all works. I wonder what power supply size is minimal for one computer ? John -- John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
On Sunday 07 December 2003 09:19 am, John Richard Smith wrote: You can check line power easily with a VOhm meter, true, but, a) how to get your meter which has DC up to 20 V as your closest option to read acurately, b) sorting out the pins on the output plug from PSU. just stick the leads into the wall outlet you're using during periods when your neighbors are using a lot of power. Well I'm on a nice little housing estate, we all get power reliably 99% of the time, form an adequate local transformer. Proximity to a local transformer is a big deal. John, I don't know the situation in the UK, but here in the US power is 110v per leg. Two legs on the same circuit (what you refer to as a ring?) yields 220v for things like electric clothes dryers, range, ovens, and furnaces. Usually those are dedicated circuits, but all circuits are fused/circuit breaker protected for different voltage and amperage. But I digress Back to computers. It's best to have them on a circuit that doesn't have a lot of other outlets on in. Unfortunately in my case, the system is in the kitchen sharing a circuit with a lot of other appliances. One of these days when I get a round-toit, I need to put it on a dedicated 110v circuit ;) Also, and this might be endemic to the US, or just many parts of it, the line power (outlet) voltage and amperage at the outlet varies. Often 90 to 120 volts, more often 90 to 95 than 110v. Many appliances such as TV's are built to accomodate this low to high power situation. All too often it's low power, which is just as hard on electronics as power spikes. Usually being very close to a local power company transformer, and not sharing with a bunch of other houses, greatly mitigates this unfortunate situation. Distance and sharing are vital components of electric transmission. IE, being close but crowded, is just as bad as being far from the local step down tranformer. Computers, even those with very good PSU's ($70 Antec) are very much less tolerant of low power and power spikes. Surge protectors only protect against spikes. AND, the more often they're called on to do this, the less effectual they become. Cheap ones sometimes only make it thru one spike. Even the very best should be regularly tested and/or replaced. The good ones include a test button and fuse/breaker. Getting back to VOhm meters. One can be had here for $10 to $15 at a hardware or auto supply store. Every one I've ever seen can be switched from DC to AC, and different voltage/amperage ranges selected. There's even very cheap lightbulb 'pigtail' type devices that indicate proper outlet voltage if the bulb lites at the correct brightness (there's a little color chart next to the bulb). You might just be surprised that the outlet voltage isn't what the power company advertises. So what's this to do with your computer(s). Well, all problems, after the user is excused ;) hardware must be the next elimination. AND this starts with the wall outlet. Easiest way to fix and ensure proper power is an UPS. They are also very much better at surviving power depressions and spikes then any surge protector (which only are capable of spikes). Most UPS have a test switch to ensure they're working properly. So you might'a guessed where I'm going with this. GET AN UPS, specially for servers or any system running 24/7. 500VA is very suitable for even the most high powered workstations. It's also usually a good price point. My APC BackUPS/500 was $120 at Wal*Mart about 6 years ago. Which brings up another important point. UPS are just power inverters, taking relatively low voltage DC (battery power) and outputting high voltage AC when needed. 'Course there's other circuitry to react to low/high power situations in fractions of a micro second. Still the most expensive component is the battery. Even in a very cheap UPS. The better UPS brands like APC, cost more initially, but the battery is very high quality and lasts much longer. Mine is still good as new after 6 years. Cheap UPS' are a false ecomomy. Doesn't really help your immediate problem, but it's a likely cause of it, and should be eliminated in any event. Even if it's not the ultimate culprit. -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
Tom Brinkman wrote: So you might'a guessed where I'm going with this. GET AN UPS, specially for servers or any system running 24/7. 500VA is very suitable for even the most high powered workstations. It's also usually a good price point. My APC BackUPS/500 was $120 at Wal*Mart about 6 years ago. Which brings up another important point. UPS are just power inverters, taking relatively low voltage DC (battery power) and outputting high voltage AC when needed. 'Course there's other circuitry to react to low/high power situations in fractions of a micro second. Still the most expensive component is the battery. Even in a very cheap UPS. The better UPS brands like APC, cost more initially, but the battery is very high quality and lasts much longer. Mine is still good as new after 6 years. Cheap UPS' are a false ecomomy. Doesn't really help your immediate problem, but it's a likely cause of it, and should be eliminated in any event. Even if it's not the ultimate culprit. I can see I will have to bite the bullet and buy an UPS. It only remains to choose the right one. I think I will start with my best computer, the one I'm on now. I like to run this computer 24/7 60% of the time, 16/7 40% of the time,I really don't know why I bother to turn it off (I've learnt the hard way electrical equipement , especially things like TV's of which I have a few to extract data on teletext are better left on, than turned off, they just last longer, don't know why , they just do, take it from me, I've 25 years of it to know) but I do sometimes. So It's a quest to find the best piece of value for money UPS, UK source. John -- John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
On Sunday 07 Dec 2003 2:44 pm, Tom Brinkman wrote: I don't know the situation in the UK, but here in the US power is 110v per leg. Two legs on the same circuit (what you refer to as a ring?) yields 220v for things like electric clothes dryers, range, ovens, and furnaces. Usually those are dedicated circuits, but all circuits are fused/circuit breaker protected for different voltage and amperage. Just in the interests of completeness. Not in the UK. Here everything runs on 240V (actually a bit lower recently, IIUC.) The circuits are built as rings purely to allow extra current to flow without heating the wires too much or having too great an earth resistance. In every case only one live wire comes into the property. The neutral is almost equivilant to the earth, (but may actually only be earth back at the transformer.) So there is no possibility of doubling the voltage as you describe. Industrial premises have the option of taking all three phases instead of one, with a voltage between the phases of 440V. Standard domestic sockets have a current rating of 13A, with the ring fuse being 15A. Lighting circuits are 5A. The cooker circuit is 20A. The whole house is protected by a 30A fuse sealed by the distribution company. (These are all IIRC, I'm not getting the torch out and looking now.) -- Richard Urwin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
On Monday 08 December 2003 12:27 am, Richard Urwin wrote: On Sunday 07 Dec 2003 2:44 pm, Tom Brinkman wrote: I don't know the situation in the UK, but here in the US power is 110v per leg. Two legs on the same circuit (what you refer to as a ring?) yields 220v for things like electric clothes dryers, range, ovens, and furnaces. Usually those are dedicated circuits, but all circuits are fused/circuit breaker protected for different voltage and amperage. Just in the interests of completeness. Not in the UK. Here everything runs on 240V (actually a bit lower recently, IIUC.) The circuits are built as rings purely to allow extra current to flow without heating the wires too much or having too great an earth resistance. Actually I thought the UK and most all of Europe was 250v. The US probly would be too, but you need to remember we invented the light bulb :) And that was so long ago, and with competing AC and DC distributions in the beginning, that now were just glad it all finally got settled ... even tho were underpowered as a result. Too damn much to change out now to switch. In every case only one live wire comes into the property. The neutral is almost equivilant to the earth, (but may actually only be earth back at the transformer.) So there is no possibility of doubling the voltage as you describe. Industrial premises have the option of taking all three phases instead of one, with a voltage between the phases of 440V. Three phase power is prevalent here too, particularly in larger than residential applications. Standard domestic sockets have a current rating of 13A, with the ring fuse being 15A. Lighting circuits are 5A. The cooker circuit is 20A. The whole house is protected by a 30A fuse sealed by the distribution company. (These are all IIRC, I'm not getting the torch out and looking now.) H, that surprises me. Here household circuits are typically 20 amp. Dedicated 220 circuits (single phase) would be as much as 50 amp. The main to the house, at least 100 amp, often 200 amp. My last house had 200 amp service. About 15 110v circuits, 4 220 circuits for a 3600 sq ft 2-story. The garage had a separate 100 amp service, 3 110's for lights and outlets, one 220 circuit for A/C. (yeah, the garage had A/C, finished sheetrock walls and ceiling, insulated, was carpeted too. Nice place to park the Corvette ;) Still, check the voltage at the outlet you plug the computer into. It just might not be as advertised. Here in the US, it would probly, almost certainly, constantly be on the low side in most areas. -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
On Friday 05 Dec 2003 8:46 pm, John Richard Smith wrote: Seems to be the power supply , so I'm after a new one, hopefully more reliable one, but maybe I'm going to have to think more seriously about surge protectors if they are any good.Either that or buy a spare. John, Argos do a really good line of surge protectors - check their catalogue for a range of silver-coloured ones. Some also protect your telephone/modem. It's amazing how many problems have disappeared since we made sure that every computer in the place is fitted with one of those. Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
On Saturday 06 Dec 2003 1:57 am, Carroll Grigsby wrote: On Friday 05 December 2003 03:37 pm, John Richard Smith wrote: whack Turns out that my powersupply has failed. I substituted a know to work powersupply and she booted. Put the old one back and she fails. My guess is that the 3.3v line is supplying under voltage. Just goes to show that powercuts can easily damage powersupply units. Not only that, but it's the second unit, known to me,to go the same way in my locality, in the last month. Seems like Milton Keynes is becoming the powersurge capital ok the uk. Anyway, thanks, for your help. Now for a new PSU. John John: It might be a good time to consider a good UPS, too. It will allow you to keep right on working through brief power outages; for longer ones, the UPS will do a clean system shutdown without any effort on your part. An additional advantage is that the better ones provide a constant supply voltage to the PC which will prolong the life of your PSU and monitor, as well as filtering some of the extraneous spikes that come down the line. -- cmg Agreed - I use one on my box. However, the only ones that do a tidy shutdown, as far as I can see, are the APC ones, and unfortunately they are rather expensive. Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
On Friday 05 December 2003 08:46 pm, John Richard Smith wrote: Seems to be the power supply , so I'm after a new one, hopefully more reliable one, but maybe I'm going to have to think more seriously about surge protectors if they are any good.Either that or buy a spare. John Get an Antec if you can. If not, consult the AMD list for approved manufacturers, even for use with an Intel system. http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_869_4348^4376,00.html A cheap PSU is false economy. Be aware tho that many ready made systems use proprietary connectors and power requirements, and you're stuck going to them for a replacement PSU. Now why did the old one fail? Well sometimes they do, but many are affected as much or more by insufficient line power as by power spikes. Better PSU's have their own built-in protection. You can check line power easily with a VOhm meter, just stick the leads into the wall outlet you're using during periods when your neighbors are using a lot of power. Another occurance is when something like the A/C, furnace, or the refridgerator kicks in. The fix is to use an UPS. They are not only better at protecting from spikes than surge protectors are, they also protect against 'brownouts'. Providing steady clean power. Consider an UPS as protecting all your hardware, not just the PSU. -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
On Saturday 06 Dec 2003 12:07 pm, John Richard Smith wrote: Anne Wilson wrote: On Saturday 06 Dec 2003 1:57 am, Carroll Grigsby wrote: John: It might be a good time to consider a good UPS, too. Agreed - I use one on my box. However, the only ones that do a tidy shutdown, as far as I can see, are the APC ones, and unfortunately they are rather expensive. Anne Yes I know, it's going to have to be a whole bunch of surge protectors on all my computers.I will have to start looking at a deal (I need at least 4), but as for an UPS I just don't come across them here in Emgland, I haven't seen one on display anywhere. The only examples I have found were on foreign websites and way too much cost for me, and in anycase they will not deliver to UK. I think ET asked for a picture of the replacement geforce fan I fitted. Turns out I don't need it as the old temperature controlled fan still works when it gets the correct voltage supplied to it. I could do with nice cheap volt meter that works well with low fortages, but haven't seen one lately. CCL do a range of UPSs, but they don't have the controlled shutdown. Still, I ran for a couple of years on a UPS that had very little battery power left - no shutdown possible, but it certainly helped me keep my system stable. Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
Anne Wilson wrote: http://www.cclcomputers.biz/acatalog/ They range from *300W ATX TUV Power Supply* Ref: PSU0001 **Online Price £14.38*£16.90 Including VAT at 17.5%* To, *Liebert 2.2Kva Powersure Interactive Mini Tower* Ref: UPS0006 World Class Power Protection And Communications For Business Networks **Online Price £387.75*£455.61 Including VAT at 17.5% Now I wonder what I would need for my requirements ? John* -- John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
On Saturday 06 December 2003 10:48 am, John Richard Smith wrote: Anne Wilson wrote: http://www.cclcomputers.biz/acatalog/ They range from *300W ATX TUV Power Supply* Ref: PSU0001 **Online Price £14.38*£16.90 Including VAT at 17.5%* To, *Liebert 2.2Kva Powersure Interactive Mini Tower* Ref: UPS0006 World Class Power Protection And Communications For Business Networks **Online Price £387.75*£455.61 Including VAT at 17.5% Now I wonder what I would need for my requirements ? John* John: Neither one. The first one is just a PSU; the second one is probably way too big for your needs. (But then, I don't know what your needs are, do I?) That puppy should be able to back up five or six workstations without breaking a sweat. I went through this exercise last year, and ended up with a 525 VA Belkin. I would have preferred an APC, as they work right out of the box with Linux, but the Belkin did a better job of matching up with some hardware constraints that I had. IIRC, it cost about $135. It has sufficient reserve to keep my system up for something like ten minutes -- adequate to do finish up whatever I'm doing and shut down. A couple of things to look for: Either USB or serial feedback -- this will allow you to monitor the state of the batteries (hence the need for Linux support), separate ports for such non-essential devices as speakers and printers (these will have surge protection, but not power backup), and, if you have a modem, a protected telephone line. I went to the liebert site (http://www.liebert-hiross.com/), and found some appropriate units clicking down through UPS == workstations. What I didn't find on their site was any help on sizing and selection. APC has some very good information at their site, although they may try to sell you more capacity than you may need. -- cmg Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
On Saturday 06 Dec 2003 3:48 pm, John Richard Smith wrote: Anne Wilson wrote: http://www.cclcomputers.biz/acatalog/ They range from *300W ATX TUV Power Supply* Ref: PSU0001 **Online Price £14.38*£16.90 Including VAT at 17.5%* To, *Liebert 2.2Kva Powersure Interactive Mini Tower* Ref: UPS0006 World Class Power Protection And Communications For Business Networks **Online Price £387.75*£455.61 Including VAT at 17.5% Now I wonder what I would need for my requirements ? It depends how much you want to protect. (The first one you mentioned was a psu, of course, not a ups g). I have a 700 on this system, but I used to have a 400 and it managed the system box and monitor without problems - and that's probably all you need. Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[newbie] Complete failure
Today I had a complete computer failure, nothing, not even a bios boot screen. I downloaded a whole batch of emails, dealt with them, and went away leaving d4x downloading a file. When I came back, nothing but a blank screen, I touched a key, and a mandrake boot script appears, hung at fsck, y/n , I say yes, it completes the fsck and then hangs again.Nothing further , just a blank black screen , no script at all. Panic, Ctrl+alt+del ineffective alt+SysRq+B ineffective Have to shut power off(reset buttlon ineffectual) I power up again, and nothing but a blank black screen not even a bios boot screen, and in addition 4 red LED mobo display which manual say's 4 RED LED's = System Power On, The D-LED will hang here if processor is damaged or not installed Properly. This suggest's that it's curtains for my processor, AMD Athlon Palamino, but before I condem it and go rushing off to replace it I thought I had better ask first if there is anything I should do to test it first. Any suggestions welcomed, as this is my first processor failure. John. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
John Richard Smith wrote: Today I had a complete computer failure, nothing, not even a bios boot screen. I downloaded a whole batch of emails, dealt with them, and went away leaving d4x downloading a file. When I came back, nothing but a blank screen, I touched a key, and a mandrake boot script appears, hung at fsck, y/n , I say yes, it completes the fsck and then hangs again.Nothing further , just a blank black screen , no script at all. Panic, Ctrl+alt+del ineffective alt+SysRq+B ineffective Have to shut power off(reset buttlon ineffectual) I power up again, and nothing but a blank black screen not even a bios boot screen, and in addition 4 red LED mobo display which manual say's 4 RED LED's = System Power On, The D-LED will hang here if processor is damaged or not installed Properly. This suggest's that it's curtains for my processor, AMD Athlon Palamino, but before I condem it and go rushing off to replace it I thought I had better ask first if there is anything I should do to test it first. Any suggestions welcomed, as this is my first processor failure. It does sound like your processor could be dead, but it could also be a mobo or graphic card problem. Could even be something as simple as a loose connection. Have you tried re-flashing the BIOS? Sir Robin -- The other major kind of computer is the Apple, which I do not recommend, because it is a wuss-o-rama New-Age computer that you basically just plug in and use. - Dave Barry Robin Turner IDMYO Bilkent Univeritesi Ankara 06533 Turkey www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
Robin Turner wrote: John Richard Smith wrote: Today I had a complete computer failure, nothing, not even a bios boot screen. I downloaded a whole batch of emails, dealt with them, and went away leaving d4x downloading a file. When I came back, nothing but a blank screen, I touched a key, and a mandrake boot script appears, hung at fsck, y/n , I say yes, it completes the fsck and then hangs again.Nothing further , just a blank black screen , no script at all. Panic, Ctrl+alt+del ineffective alt+SysRq+B ineffective Have to shut power off(reset buttlon ineffectual) I power up again, and nothing but a blank black screen not even a bios boot screen, and in addition 4 red LED mobo display which manual say's 4 RED LED's = System Power On, The D-LED will hang here if processor is damaged or not installed Properly. This suggest's that it's curtains for my processor, AMD Athlon Palamino, but before I condem it and go rushing off to replace it I thought I had better ask first if there is anything I should do to test it first. Any suggestions welcomed, as this is my first processor failure. It does sound like your processor could be dead, but it could also be a mobo or graphic card problem. Could even be something as simple as a loose connection. Have you tried re-flashing the BIOS? Sir Robin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com message.footer Content-Type: text/plain Content-Encoding: quoted-printable I cann't even get into bios, that is the problem. By flash I guess you mean reset the bios and make it redetect ? John Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
Robin Turner wrote: John Richard Smith wrote: Today I had a complete computer failure, nothing, not even a bios boot screen. I downloaded a whole batch of emails, dealt with them, and went away leaving d4x downloading a file. When I came back, nothing but a blank screen, I touched a key, and a mandrake boot script appears, hung at fsck, y/n , I say yes, it completes the fsck and then hangs again.Nothing further , just a blank black screen , no script at all. Panic, Ctrl+alt+del ineffective alt+SysRq+B ineffective Have to shut power off(reset buttlon ineffectual) I power up again, and nothing but a blank black screen not even a bios boot screen, and in addition 4 red LED mobo display which manual say's 4 RED LED's = System Power On, The D-LED will hang here if processor is damaged or not installed Properly. This suggest's that it's curtains for my processor, AMD Athlon Palamino, but before I condem it and go rushing off to replace it I thought I had better ask first if there is anything I should do to test it first. Any suggestions welcomed, as this is my first processor failure. It does sound like your processor could be dead, but it could also be a mobo or graphic card problem. Could even be something as simple as a loose connection. Have you tried re-flashing the BIOS? Sir Robin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com message.footer Content-Type: text/plain Content-Encoding: quoted-printable I cann't even get into bios, that is the problem. By flash I guess you mean reset the bios and make it redetect ? John I might add that I do have power supply , it seems like everything that needs it is getting power,though since I cannot get into bios I cannot tell what may be dead. If I had harddrive failure you would still be able to get into bios If I have monitor failure , that could be a possibility, though it does say no signal and the neon led lights up, which to my mind indicates it wants to work. If I had a graphic's card failure I ought to be able to get into bios at least ? If Mobo then I guess it has to be a real possility. Anything there could block my access to bios for instance ?? John Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
I cann't even get into bios, that is the problem. By flash I guess you mean reset the bios and make it redetect ? John I might add that I do have power supply , it seems like everything that needs it is getting power,though since I cannot get into bios I cannot tell what may be dead. If I had harddrive failure you would still be able to get into bios If I have monitor failure , that could be a possibility, though it does say no signal and the neon led lights up, which to my mind indicates it wants to work. If I had a graphic's card failure I ought to be able to get into bios at least ? If Mobo then I guess it has to be a real possility. Anything there could block my access to bios for instance ?? John Well I'm blowed. I'm back up to desktop. I kept on powering on and off and eventually it booted. Now that is a mystery to me. In a way I don't like that situation, could happen again. I'm resting on the thesis that I must of had a momentary powercut this morning that crashed everything, the first reboot was automatic and ended in a post fsck hangup for some unknown reason, which I then shutdown hard, and for some reason that seems to of screwed the bios detection process for a while .Odd though. I think i need to start doing some testing ? John Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
I cann't even get into bios, that is the problem. By flash I guess you mean reset the bios and make it redetect ? John I might add that I do have power supply , it seems like everything that needs it is getting power,though since I cannot get into bios I cannot tell what may be dead. If I had harddrive failure you would still be able to get into bios If I have monitor failure , that could be a possibility, though it does say no signal and the neon led lights up, which to my mind indicates it wants to work. If I had a graphic's card failure I ought to be able to get into bios at least ? If Mobo then I guess it has to be a real possility. Anything there could block my access to bios for instance ?? John Well I'm blowed. I'm back up to desktop. I kept on powering on and off and eventually it booted. Now that is a mystery to me. In a way I don't like that situation, could happen again. I'm resting on the thesis that I must of had a momentary powercut this morning that crashed everything, the first reboot was automatic and ended in a post fsck hangup for some unknown reason, which I then shutdown hard, and for some reason that seems to of screwed the bios detection process for a while .Odd though. I think i need to start doing some testing ? John I think I have found the problem. My graphics card , gforce3 has a small fan on it and it's hardly turning at all. I bet that is the problem, can one buy replacements? John Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
On Friday 05 December 2003 09:05 am, John Richard Smith wrote: Today I had a complete computer failure, nothing, not even a bios boot screen. I downloaded a whole batch of emails, dealt with them, and went away leaving d4x downloading a file. When I came back, nothing but a blank screen, I touched a key, and a mandrake boot script appears, hung at fsck, y/n , I say yes, it completes the fsck and then hangs again.Nothing further , just a blank black screen , no script at all. Panic, Ctrl+alt+del ineffective alt+SysRq+B ineffective Have to shut power off(reset buttlon ineffectual) I power up again, and nothing but a blank black screen not even a bios boot screen, and in addition 4 red LED mobo display which manual say's 4 RED LED's = System Power On, The D-LED will hang here if processor is damaged or not installed Properly. This suggest's that it's curtains for my processor, AMD Athlon Palamino, but before I condem it and go rushing off to replace it I thought I had better ask first if there is anything I should do to test it first. Any suggestions welcomed, as this is my first processor failure. John. probly 'lunched' (as in 'something ate your cpu for lunch) it, but let it cool down for a day, blow everything in the case out with canned air, disconnect all the drives. this may just be a powersupply crapping out. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
On Friday 05 December 2003 10:48 am, John Richard Smith wrote: Robin Turner wrote: John Richard Smith wrote: Today I had a complete computer failure, nothing, not even a bios boot screen. I downloaded a whole batch of emails, dealt with them, and went away leaving d4x downloading a file. When I came back, nothing but a blank screen, I touched a key, and a mandrake boot script appears, hung at fsck, y/n , I say yes, it completes the fsck and then hangs again.Nothing further , just a blank black screen , no script at all. Panic, Ctrl+alt+del ineffective alt+SysRq+B ineffective Have to shut power off(reset buttlon ineffectual) I power up again, and nothing but a blank black screen not even a bios boot screen, and in addition 4 red LED mobo display which manual say's 4 RED LED's = System Power On, The D-LED will hang here if processor is damaged or not installed Properly. This suggest's that it's curtains for my processor, AMD Athlon Palamino, but before I condem it and go rushing off to replace it I thought I had better ask first if there is anything I should do to test it first. Any suggestions welcomed, as this is my first processor failure. It does sound like your processor could be dead, but it could also be a mobo or graphic card problem. Could even be something as simple as a loose connection. Have you tried re-flashing the BIOS? Sir Robin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com message.footer Content-Type: text/plain Content-Encoding: quoted-printable I cann't even get into bios, that is the problem. By flash I guess you mean reset the bios and make it redetect ? John I might add that I do have power supply , it seems like everything that needs it is getting power,though since I cannot get into bios I cannot tell what may be dead. If I had harddrive failure you would still be able to get into bios If I have monitor failure , that could be a possibility, though it does say no signal and the neon led lights up, which to my mind indicates it wants to work. If I had a graphic's card failure I ought to be able to get into bios at least ? If Mobo then I guess it has to be a real possility. Anything there could block my access to bios for instance ?? John lack of proper voltages from the power supply, no memory, no CPU, hard drive cable installed backwards (I know, but _I_ have done it more than 1 time, but on old computers like 486s) and a disconnected cable on the video card to monitor would all produce what you are describing, from the monitors view. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
On Friday 05 December 2003 11:14 am, John Richard Smith wrote: I cann't even get into bios, that is the problem. By flash I guess you mean reset the bios and make it redetect ? John I might add that I do have power supply , it seems like everything that needs it is getting power,though since I cannot get into bios I cannot tell what may be dead. If I had harddrive failure you would still be able to get into bios If I have monitor failure , that could be a possibility, though it does say no signal and the neon led lights up, which to my mind indicates it wants to work. If I had a graphic's card failure I ought to be able to get into bios at least ? If Mobo then I guess it has to be a real possility. Anything there could block my access to bios for instance ?? John Well I'm blowed. I'm back up to desktop. I kept on powering on and off and eventually it booted. Now that is a mystery to me. In a way I don't like that situation, could happen again. I'm resting on the thesis that I must of had a momentary powercut this morning that crashed everything, the first reboot was automatic and ended in a post fsck hangup for some unknown reason, which I then shutdown hard, and for some reason that seems to of screwed the bios detection process for a while .Odd though. I think i need to start doing some testing ? John you should be testing backup soft ware grin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
On Friday 05 December 2003 11:49 am, John Richard Smith wrote: I cann't even get into bios, that is the problem. By flash I guess you mean reset the bios and make it redetect ? John I might add that I do have power supply , it seems like everything that needs it is getting power,though since I cannot get into bios I cannot tell what may be dead. If I had harddrive failure you would still be able to get into bios If I have monitor failure , that could be a possibility, though it does say no signal and the neon led lights up, which to my mind indicates it wants to work. If I had a graphic's card failure I ought to be able to get into bios at least ? If Mobo then I guess it has to be a real possility. Anything there could block my access to bios for instance ?? John Well I'm blowed. I'm back up to desktop. I kept on powering on and off and eventually it booted. Now that is a mystery to me. In a way I don't like that situation, could happen again. I'm resting on the thesis that I must of had a momentary powercut this morning that crashed everything, the first reboot was automatic and ended in a post fsck hangup for some unknown reason, which I then shutdown hard, and for some reason that seems to of screwed the bios detection process for a while .Odd though. I think i need to start doing some testing ? John I think I have found the problem. My graphics card , gforce3 has a small fan on it and it's hardly turning at all. I bet that is the problem, can one buy replacements? John yes. send us a picture of the fan you get for it. however, while I ain't sure about your particular card, I do know some fans have a control circuit that makes the fan run faster when there is more heat. I still think you need to blow out the power supply fan. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 03:53, John Richard Smith wrote: et wrote: On Friday 05 December 2003 11:49 am, John Richard Smith wrote: I cann't even get into bios, that is the problem. By flash I guess you mean reset the bios and make it redetect ? John I might add that I do have power supply , it seems like everything that needs it is getting power,though since I cannot get into bios I cannot tell what may be dead. If I had harddrive failure you would still be able to get into bios If I have monitor failure , that could be a possibility, though it does say no signal and the neon led lights up, which to my mind indicates it wants to work. If I had a graphic's card failure I ought to be able to get into bios at least ? If Mobo then I guess it has to be a real possility. Anything there could block my access to bios for instance ?? John I think I have found the problem. My graphics card , gforce3 has a small fan on it and it's hardly turning at all. I bet that is the problem, can one buy replacements? John yes. send us a picture of the fan you get for it. however, while I ain't sure about your particular card, I do know some fans have a control circuit that makes the fan run faster when there is more heat. I still think you need to blow out the power supply fan. At the moment I don't have an OS that can handle my camera. I've bought a new fan (12v , they don't have the exact same voltage as the Gforce3 card(2.1v)and plugged it into the main 12v supply, not ideal, though it whirls up nicely.The fan goes by the name of Crystal Orb p/n A1178 and fits the apperture and seating quite nicely . However I'm still stuck as it won't boot even past the bios. Keyboard is dead, though optical mouse lights up. I'm wondering whether Geforce3 has heat detection, and I need to somehow kick the bios into starting again. So I'd better investigate the power supply next .I will have it all out and clean it up. Yep, if you've got another PSu to swap in, try that (or borrow one). My next bet would be the motherboard. About six months ago I had a similar problem and I could still hear the fan whir on the PSU. Didn't have a power supply with enough grunt to try on my system (and all my friends have old PCs with 200W PSUs). So I pulled the PSU and joined 2 wires to see if the fan was working properly as someone suggested. The fan worked no problem so I assumed the next thing to try was motherboard. Bought a new motherboard only to find that it WAS indeed the PSU!!! So, in short, even if the PSU fan is working, doesn't mean that enough power is supplied to your system. THEN, only just two months ago, a friend's PC did the same thing. I tried my PSU in her PC and it worked no probs, so I bought another PSU for her - only to find that it was the bl**dy motherboard! Good luck! Sharrea -- Help Microsoft stamp out piracy - give Linux to a friend today Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
On Sat, 6 Dec 2003 08:59:44 +1300 Sharrea Day [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 03:53, John Richard Smith wrote: et wrote: On Friday 05 December 2003 11:49 am, John Richard Smith wrote: I cann't even get into bios, that is the problem. By flash I guess youmean reset the bios and make it redetect ? John I might add that I do have power supply , it seems like everything that needs it is getting power,though since I cannot get into bios Icannot tell what may be dead. If I had harddrive failure you would still be able to get into biosIf I have monitor failure , that could be a possibility, though itdoes say no signal and the neon led lights up, which to my mindindicates it wants to work. If I had a graphic's card failure I ought to be able to get into bios at least ? If Mobo then I guess it has to be a real possility. Anything there could block my access to bios for instance ?? John I think I have found the problem. My graphics card , gforce3 has a small fan on it and it's hardly turning at all. I bet that is the problem, can one buy replacements? John yes. send us a picture of the fan you get for it. however, while I ain't sure about your particular card, I do know some fans have a control circuit that makes the fan run faster when there is more heat. I still think you need to blow out the power supply fan. At the moment I don't have an OS that can handle my camera. I've bought a new fan (12v , they don't have the exact same voltage as the Gforce3 card(2.1v)and plugged it into the main 12v supply, not ideal, though it whirls up nicely.The fan goes by the name of Crystal Orb p/n A1178 and fits the apperture and seating quite nicely . However I'm still stuck as it won't boot even past the bios. Keyboard is dead, though optical mouse lights up. I'm wondering whether Geforce3 has heat detection, and I need to somehow kick the bios into starting again. So I'd better investigate the power supply next .I will have it all out and clean it up. Yep, if you've got another PSu to swap in, try that (or borrow one). My next bet would be the motherboard. About six months ago I had a similar problem and I could still hear the fan whir on the PSU. Didn't have a power supply with enough grunt to try on my system (and all my friends have old PCs with 200W PSUs). So I pulled the PSU and joined 2 wires to see if the fan was working properly as someone suggested. The fan worked no problem so I assumed the next thing to try was motherboard. Bought a new motherboard only to find that it WAS indeed the PSU!!! So, in short, even if the PSU fan is working, doesn't mean that enough power is supplied to your system. THEN, only just two months ago, a friend's PC did the same thing. I tried my PSU in her PC and it worked no probs, so I bought another PSU for her - only to find that it was the bl**dy motherboard! Good luck! Sharrea -- Help Microsoft stamp out piracy - give Linux to a friend today If you think that the PSU does not have enough power to drive your computer, unplug everything (harddrive, cdrom, floppy, etc.) and try again. Even a 200W CPU should be able to drive just a motherboard, memory, and a video card. If that does not work, I would suggest checking the memory. If the memory is bad, nothing will happen (you won't even get anything on the screen). However, usually if you have a memory problem you will get some kind of a beep from the PC speaker, which reminds me: usually motherboards issue beeps when something is wrong prior to loading the BIOS. Different number of beeps for different things. Your MB manual should have a list of what different number of beeps mean. I hope this helps!! -- Mitko Haralanov voidtrance at comcast dot net http://voidtrance.home.comcast.net == You know you've been spending too much time on the computer when your friend misdates a check, and you suggest adding a ++ to fix it. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
My graphics card , gforce3 has a small fan on it and it's hardly turning at all. I bet that is the problem, can one buy replacements? John yes. send us a picture of the fan you get for it. however, while I ain't sure about your particular card, I do know some fans have a control circuit that makes the fan run faster when there is more heat. I still think you need to blow out the power supply fan. Turns out that my powersupply has failed. I substituted a know to work powersupply and she booted. Put the old one back and she fails. My guess is that the 3.3v line is supplying under voltage. Just goes to show that powercuts can easily damage powersupply units. Not only that, but it's the second unit, known to me,to go the same way in my locality, in the last month. Seems like Milton Keynes is becoming the powersurge capital ok the uk. Anyway, thanks, for your help. Now for a new PSU. John Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
Sharrea Day wrote: On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 03:53, John Richard Smith wrote: et wrote: On Friday 05 December 2003 11:49 am, John Richard Smith wrote: I cann't even get into bios, that is the problem. By flash I guess you mean reset the bios and make it redetect ? John I might add that I do have power supply , it seems like everything that needs it is getting power,though since I cannot get into bios I cannot tell what may be dead. If I had harddrive failure you would still be able to get into bios If I have monitor failure , that could be a possibility, though it does say no signal and the neon led lights up, which to my mind indicates it wants to work. If I had a graphic's card failure I ought to be able to get into bios at least ? If Mobo then I guess it has to be a real possility. Anything there could block my access to bios for instance ?? John I think I have found the problem. My graphics card , gforce3 has a small fan on it and it's hardly turning at all. I bet that is the problem, can one buy replacements? John yes. send us a picture of the fan you get for it. however, while I ain't sure about your particular card, I do know some fans have a control circuit that makes the fan run faster when there is more heat. I still think you need to blow out the power supply fan. At the moment I don't have an OS that can handle my camera. I've bought a new fan (12v , they don't have the exact same voltage as the Gforce3 card(2.1v)and plugged it into the main 12v supply, not ideal, though it whirls up nicely.The fan goes by the name of Crystal Orb p/n A1178 and fits the apperture and seating quite nicely . However I'm still stuck as it won't boot even past the bios. Keyboard is dead, though optical mouse lights up. I'm wondering whether Geforce3 has heat detection, and I need to somehow kick the bios into starting again. So I'd better investigate the power supply next .I will have it all out and clean it up. Yep, if you've got another PSu to swap in, try that (or borrow one). My next bet would be the motherboard. About six months ago I had a similar problem and I could still hear the fan whir on the PSU. Didn't have a power supply with enough grunt to try on my system (and all my friends have old PCs with 200W PSUs). So I pulled the PSU and joined 2 wires to see if the fan was working properly as someone suggested. The fan worked no problem so I assumed the next thing to try was motherboard. Bought a new motherboard only to find that it WAS indeed the PSU!!! So, in short, even if the PSU fan is working, doesn't mean that enough power is supplied to your system. THEN, only just two months ago, a friend's PC did the same thing. I tried my PSU in her PC and it worked no probs, so I bought another PSU for her - only to find that it was the bl**dy motherboard! Good luck! Sharrea Such is the joys of a computer. You were right It's the powersupply, the 3.3v line is my guess. Substituted a known to work and she booted, having first gone to bios to shove the HD on autodetect because the bios seemed to protect the drive my deselecting it. In a way I'm glad it did, probanbly saved my drive from becoming dogmeat. John Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
Dimitar Haralanov wrote: On Sat, 6 Dec 2003 08:59:44 +1300 Sharrea Day [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 03:53, John Richard Smith wrote: et wrote: On Friday 05 December 2003 11:49 am, John Richard Smith wrote: I cann't even get into bios, that is the problem. By flash I guess youmean reset the bios and make it redetect ? John I might add that I do have power supply , it seems like everything that needs it is getting power,though since I cannot get into bios Icannot tell what may be dead. If I had harddrive failure you would still be able to get into biosIf I have monitor failure , that could be a possibility, though itdoes say no signal and the neon led lights up, which to my mindindicates it wants to work. If I had a graphic's card failure I ought to be able to get into bios at least ? If Mobo then I guess it has to be a real possility. Anything there could block my access to bios for instance ?? John I think I have found the problem. My graphics card , gforce3 has a small fan on it and it's hardly turning at all. I bet that is the problem, can one buy replacements? John yes. send us a picture of the fan you get for it. however, while I ain't sure about your particular card, I do know some fans have a control circuit that makes the fan run faster when there is more heat. I still think you need to blow out the power supply fan. At the moment I don't have an OS that can handle my camera. I've bought a new fan (12v , they don't have the exact same voltage as the Gforce3 card(2.1v)and plugged it into the main 12v supply, not ideal, though it whirls up nicely.The fan goes by the name of Crystal Orb p/n A1178 and fits the apperture and seating quite nicely . However I'm still stuck as it won't boot even past the bios. Keyboard is dead, though optical mouse lights up. I'm wondering whether Geforce3 has heat detection, and I need to somehow kick the bios into starting again. So I'd better investigate the power supply next .I will have it all out and clean it up. Yep, if you've got another PSu to swap in, try that (or borrow one). My next bet would be the motherboard. About six months ago I had a similar problem and I could still hear the fan whir on the PSU. Didn't have a power supply with enough grunt to try on my system (and all my friends have old PCs with 200W PSUs). So I pulled the PSU and joined 2 wires to see if the fan was working properly as someone suggested. The fan worked no problem so I assumed the next thing to try was motherboard. Bought a new motherboard only to find that it WAS indeed the PSU!!! So, in short, even if the PSU fan is working, doesn't mean that enough power is supplied to your system. THEN, only just two months ago, a friend's PC did the same thing. I tried my PSU in her PC and it worked no probs, so I bought another PSU for her - only to find that it was the bl**dy motherboard! Good luck! Sharrea -- Help Microsoft stamp out piracy - give Linux to a friend today If you think that the PSU does not have enough power to drive your computer, unplug everything (harddrive, cdrom, floppy, etc.) and try again. Even a 200W CPU should be able to drive just a motherboard, memory, and a video card. If that does not work, I would suggest checking the memory. If the memory is bad, nothing will happen (you won't even get anything on the screen). However, usually if you have a memory problem you will get some kind of a beep from the PC speaker, which reminds me: usually motherboards issue beeps when something is wrong prior to loading the BIOS. Different number of beeps for different things. Your MB manual should have a list of what different number of beeps mean. I hope this helps Content-Encoding: Seems to be the power supply , so I'm after a new one, hopefully more reliable one, but maybe I'm going to have to think more seriously about surge protectors if they are any good.Either that or buy a spare. John John Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
John Richard Smith wrote: Dimitar Haralanov wrote: On Sat, 6 Dec 2003 08:59:44 +1300 Sharrea Day [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 03:53, John Richard Smith wrote: et wrote: On Friday 05 December 2003 11:49 am, John Richard Smith wrote: I cann't even get into bios, that is the problem. By flash I guess youmean reset the bios and make it redetect ? John I might add that I do have power supply , it seems like everything that needs it is getting power,though since I cannot get into bios Icannot tell what may be dead. If I had harddrive failure you would still be able to get into biosIf I have monitor failure , that could be a possibility, though itdoes say no signal and the neon led lights up, which to my mindindicates it wants to work. If I had a graphic's card failure I ought to be able to get into bios at least ? If Mobo then I guess it has to be a real possility. Anything there could block my access to bios for instance ?? John I think I have found the problem. My graphics card , gforce3 has a small fan on it and it's hardly turning at all. I bet that is the problem, can one buy replacements? John yes. send us a picture of the fan you get for it. however, while I ain't sure about your particular card, I do know some fans have a control circuit that makes the fan run faster when there is more heat. I still think you need to blow out the power supply fan. At the moment I don't have an OS that can handle my camera. I've bought a new fan (12v , they don't have the exact same voltage as the Gforce3 card(2.1v)and plugged it into the main 12v supply, not ideal, though it whirls up nicely.The fan goes by the name of Crystal Orb p/n A1178 and fits the apperture and seating quite nicely . However I'm still stuck as it won't boot even past the bios. Keyboard is dead, though optical mouse lights up. I'm wondering whether Geforce3 has heat detection, and I need to somehow kick the bios into starting again. So I'd better investigate the power supply next .I will have it all out and clean it up. Yep, if you've got another PSu to swap in, try that (or borrow one). My next bet would be the motherboard. About six months ago I had a similar problem and I could still hear the fan whir on the PSU. Didn't have a power supply with enough grunt to try on my system (and all my friends have old PCs with 200W PSUs). So I pulled the PSU and joined 2 wires to see if the fan was working properly as someone suggested. The fan worked no problem so I assumed the next thing to try was motherboard. Bought a new motherboard only to find that it WAS indeed the PSU!!! So, in short, even if the PSU fan is working, doesn't mean that enough power is supplied to your system. THEN, only just two months ago, a friend's PC did the same thing. I tried my PSU in her PC and it worked no probs, so I bought another PSU for her - only to find that it was the bl**dy motherboard! Good luck! Sharrea -- Help Microsoft stamp out piracy - give Linux to a friend today If you think that the PSU does not have enough power to drive your computer, unplug everything (harddrive, cdrom, floppy, etc.) and try again. Even a 200W CPU should be able to drive just a motherboard, memory, and a video card. If that does not work, I would suggest checking the memory. If the memory is bad, nothing will happen (you won't even get anything on the screen). However, usually if you have a memory problem you will get some kind of a beep from the PC speaker, which reminds me: usually motherboards issue beeps when something is wrong prior to loading the BIOS. Different number of beeps for different things. Your MB manual should have a list of what different number of beeps mean. I hope this helps Content-Encoding: Seems to be the power supply , so I'm after a new one, hopefully more reliable one, but maybe I'm going to have to think more seriously about surge protectors if they are any good.Either that or buy a spare. John Up until a few months ago we had loads of power cuts in my area - always 1 in 3 properties suffering, always including mine :-( The electricity company dug up our road several times, always claiming to have fixed the problem...and it always happened again within a couple of weeks. We still get occasional 'blips', which affect my microwave, but I've always used surge protectors for the computers and, so far, even though they've been cut off several times, no permanent damage - Win 98 protests a little, Mandrake justs restarts and gets on with things! Ask Santa for a surge protector! Margot Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Complete failure
On Friday 05 December 2003 03:37 pm, John Richard Smith wrote: whack Turns out that my powersupply has failed. I substituted a know to work powersupply and she booted. Put the old one back and she fails. My guess is that the 3.3v line is supplying under voltage. Just goes to show that powercuts can easily damage powersupply units. Not only that, but it's the second unit, known to me,to go the same way in my locality, in the last month. Seems like Milton Keynes is becoming the powersurge capital ok the uk. Anyway, thanks, for your help. Now for a new PSU. John John: It might be a good time to consider a good UPS, too. It will allow you to keep right on working through brief power outages; for longer ones, the UPS will do a clean system shutdown without any effort on your part. An additional advantage is that the better ones provide a constant supply voltage to the PC which will prolong the life of your PSU and monitor, as well as filtering some of the extraneous spikes that come down the line. -- cmg Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
