Yahoo orion list is up..
I think it was an excellent idea to start an Orionserver yahoo group, just as I think it's a wonderful idea to start up support sites. Just as I like competitors like Blazix (who also has a yahoo mail group) and Jboss, and good open source databases, like mysql, postqresql, firebird interbase, and sapdb, the more options and choices the better. If one turns out to be a dud, for whatever reason, I have other choices to choose from. Any Yahoo offers a daily digest. __ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
I think, I will start a support site too....
This is great -- the more the merrier. Just like other little guys like Orion, such as Jboss (www.jboss.org) and Blazix (www.blazix.com), give the competition like BEA and Websphere a run for the money, databases like mysql (www.mysql.com), postgresql (www.postgresql.org), firebird interbase (http://firebird.sourceforge.org) and sapdb (www.sapdb.oeg) give Oracle competition. If I don't like picking the high cost application servers like BEA and Websphere, or the high priced databases like Oracle, I have more options to choose from. And if the third party support is no good, I can pick another third party support candidate and try them out. * From: Michael J. Cannon * Subject: Re: I think, I will start a support site too * Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 21:34:58 -0700 I personally think third-party support sites are a good thing. All of them I have seen so far are primarily commercial in nature, in order to counter the complaints of the corporate users that there was no 'credible support.' It's capitalism in action: see a need in the market and meet it. ...as to what the maillist runs, it really doesn't matter. All websites go down...Hotmail, Yahoo, even Slashdot...the rumor - never confirmed - was that it did indeed run on Orionserver. So what? Now you have another place to go when it is down (the new support sites). ...and if Orion is good enough for you to run a web site - (and it is: http:/www.standardset.com/ ) well, it should be good enough for Orion, especially since they developed it and this is one of the 'load and valence test platforms (if it does indeed run on Orion) for the product. Finally, the more info the merrier, and, given the levels of interest and participation by the people who have started these support sites and the support they have shown everyone on this maillist, I don't think any of us are going to suffer. Michael J. Cannon - Original Message - From: Alex Paransky [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Orion-Interest [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 9:13 PM Subject: I think, I will start a support site too (in style of Andy Rooney) I see everyone is starting their support sites for Orion. I think it's a poor solution for something that's broken, mainly, this mailing list. How many support sites do we actually have now? Why is it such a problem to keep the mailing list up and running? Now, we need to post the message to at least 3 places to make sure it gets maximum exposure. I think I will start a support site, that posts to all other support sites, just so that people don't have to search various support sites for help. I don't mind so many support sites starting up, I just think they are starting up for poor reasons and fragmenting what little knowledge we already have about this product. What is the problem with the list? Why is it down half the time? I hope it's not running under Orion... -AP_ * References: * I think, I will start a support site too msg15852.html * From: Alex Paransky -- msg15853.html Chronological maillist.html -- msg15855.html -- msg15852.html Thread index.html -- msg15851.html Top of Form 1 ...OLE_Obj... ...OLE_Obj... ...OLE_Obj... ...OLE_Obj... Reply via email to ...OLE_Obj... Bottom of Form 1
Angebot - Shaking Man
Here's what this dude is saying, complements of translate at www.altavista.com (including original). Now someone can explain what this has to do with Orion or EJB. From: Kinkerlitzchen Subject: Angebot - Shaking Man Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 16:33:15 -0700 Hallo, liebe Kunden! Jeder kennt ihn, den sensationellen Shaking Man aus der Autowerbung. Der Shaking Man ist an der Hüfte und an den Armen beweglich. Jetzt haben wir diesen immer gut gelaunten Beifahrer im Sortiment und es gibt auch gleich ein supergünstiges Angebot: Zwei dieser lustigen Zeitgenossen im Set für nur 30 DM zzgl. Versandkosten. Also schnell zugreifen! Die Lieferzeit beträgt ca. 48 Stunden. Das war es auch schon von uns! Mit freundlichen Grüßen Euer Kinkerlitzchen-Team P.S.: Wenn Du in Zukunft keine weiteren Mails mehr von uns erhalten möchtest, sende einfach diese Mail kommentarlos an uns zurück. Hello, loves customers! Everyone knows it, the sensational Shaking one from the autoadvertisement. The Shaking one is mobile at the hip and at the levers. Now we have this always well gelaunten front seat passenger in the assortment and it give also equal an attractive offer: Two of these merry contemporaries in the set for only 30 DM zzgl. forwarding expenses. Access thus fast! The delivery time amounts to approx. 48 hours. That was it already from us! Yours sincerely Your Kinkerlitzchen team P.S.: If you did not like to receive further Mails in the future more from us, send simply this Mail back without comment at us. __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
Orion and blazix
I came across a server called blazix, which has cluster, gui's, support, and only 1.5 mg at www.blazix.com for $2000. Does anyone have any exposure or experience with this server? How does it compare and contrast with Orion?
Orion and Blazix
I came across a server called blazix, which has cluster, gui's, support, and only 1.5 mg at www.blazix.com for $2000. Does anyone have any exposure or experience with this server? How does it compare and contrast with Orion?
JSP page in another window
If I have JSP page A and I want to open up JSP page B in a seperate and smaller window, while keeping JSP page A, is there a way to do this? I know it can be done with JavaScript. __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
Documents and dynamic web pages
I am aiding a department that is using a two tier application design, with a JSP engine and Oracle, to build a dynamic web site. It's easy to deal with images, by either using a URL link, or a BLOB field in Oracle. Now I wonder how to deal with documents. Is it best to store them as BLOBS, or perhaps PDF files, and use software such as www.pdflib.com to transform them. Any suggestions on the best approach. __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
Another interesting observation
I was looking through the Oracle documentation on Orion, and I noticed another interesting observation. Apache is hooked up as a front end, passing requests to OC4J (Orion) J2EE applications. Apache is still part of the Oracle equation.
It didn't dawn on me
It didn't dawn on me, that as I sit here being a part time Oracle DBA, and playing with J2EE on Resin, Orion, and Jboss in development, I now know the complete Oracle picture, and since we have an Oracle site license, I can run the new Orion software for nothing through Oracle. Of course, I'm the same person who inserted a CD into a Sun server, and couldn't get it to eject. How was I to know you need to type EJECT? Luckily, I didn't have to open a support ticket for this issue. __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
Great new book
Anyone see the book Java 2 Enterprise Edition by Mark Wutka? It's almost as relaxing and refreshing as a good movie.
Re: Oracle 9ias Container for J2ee (oc4j)
Congradulations, guys, on a job well done. This means that Orion is hitting the big time, and with some of the big Oracle royality checks, they can hire a tech writer to produce some first class documentation, and extend the user base of Orion. I really like to see the small guys producing great products, like Orion, Resin, and Jboss, get the recognition and glory they deserve. Imagine BEA and Websphere as the big bad dragons, dominating the J2EE lanscape, and the small knights, like Orion, Resin, and Jboss, fighting the battle. But the announcement also doesn't supprise me. Look at the Apache foundation. A couple of years ago, IBM approached them with a funding proposal to produce a Windows version that they could use in their Websphere products. With Apahche 2.0, Apache goes from a process model to a process, thread model, and should be declared stable for Windows. Companies like IBM and Oracle now embed Apache in their products, and Apache gains from a greater cash influx. __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
So, why use Orion
In answer to 'Why use Orion I had to throw in my two cents, even through I'm no longer an official subscriber, since I found reading the archives more beneficial then just subscribing. Now there are really only three products I play with on a consistant basis, which are Resin, jboss-jetty, and Orion. 1. Weblogic is king of the hill, if you can afford the price, but it is not necessarily a better product then the cheaper alternatives. 2. Tomcat did start out kind of buggy, but is much better is 3.2.x releases, and I look forward to 4.0. Jboss does have a lot of people looking at the code, and a hugh number of developers. So far, jetty-jboss is very stable, and while behind Orion on features, it will catch up in 3.0. 3. Magnus and Karl will continue to develop a good product in Orion, but they need to upgrade the documentation and support to gain a wider audience, which is not their primary goal. Their primary goal is to work on a server. 4. Resin is a great JSP engine, but has no EJB in VM intergration yet. But the source is available for developers, which gives it an edge over Orion (as well as having more staff members). 5. I really haven't seen anything from Enhydra Enterprise or openejb that impresses me yet, but Enhydra Enterprise does have the people to make it work. So far, for cheap alternatives, I like Orion, Resin, and Jboss-jetty. __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
RE: simple questions
Sure. You just need to be aware of what the tool does and what Jbuilder does, and separate the functionality. Fortunately, a great tutorial exists for how to use the tool with Orion and Oracle (notice you could substitute any database, such as instantdb, mysql, postgresql, sapdb, firebird, etc.) at http://www.4degreez.com/intro_part_1.html and http://www.4degreez.com/intro_part_2.html. A great new book that talks about the tool, in conjunction with ejb, is Instant Enterprise JavaBeans by Paul Tremblett. -Original Message- From: Hasan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 1:31 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: simple questions can i also use the tool for deploying the app i created using jbuilder? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Kemp Randy-W18971 Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 4:09 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: simple questions Thanks for helping out. I have been using the Sun GUI, and forgot the beautiful power of Ant. -Original Message- From: Stan Ng [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 2:35 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: simple questions The addressbook example uses the Ant build tool to build the project. It's available at http://jakarta.apache.org/ant/ It's pretty easy to set-up, just follow the instructions at http://jakarta.apache.org/ant/manual/index.html Once it's setup, you should be able to build the project by typing the following at the command line: ant This will cause ant to build project using the default build.xml file in the addressbook project. This will create the C:\test\addressbook\lib for you. - Original Message - From: Kemp Randy-W18971 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Orion-Interest [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 6:14 AM Subject: RE: simple questions It has been a while since I have worked on the address book example, but please clarify the lib directory question. I have looked at the doc again at www.jollem.com, and it says The generated Java .class files will be placed in the lib/java/ subdirectory. This directory will be created automatically during the build process, in step 9. I don't know if ejbdoclet (spelling?), the freeware tool, in conjunction with ant, would build xml files, but that would be a good place to start looking. Anyone else have any ideas? -Original Message- From: Hasan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 9:00 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: simple questions hi, i have downloaded the addressbook example. however, i wonder where i should create the lib directory. i put all the example in the C:\TEST\addressbook folder while my orion is C:\orion. is there any tool that can help you to build the xml from the ones created by jbuilder?
RE: simple questions
It has been a while since I have worked on the address book example, but please clarify the lib directory question. I have looked at the doc again at www.jollem.com, and it says The generated Java .class files will be placed in the lib/java/ subdirectory. This directory will be created automatically during the build process, in step 9. I don't know if ejbdoclet (spelling?), the freeware tool, in conjunction with ant, would build xml files, but that would be a good place to start looking. Anyone else have any ideas? -Original Message- From: Hasan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 9:00 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: simple questions hi, i have downloaded the addressbook example. however, i wonder where i should create the lib directory. i put all the example in the C:\TEST\addressbook folder while my orion is C:\orion. is there any tool that can help you to build the xml from the ones created by jbuilder?
RE: simple questions
Thanks for helping out. I have been using the Sun GUI, and forgot the beautiful power of Ant. -Original Message- From: Stan Ng [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 2:35 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: simple questions The addressbook example uses the Ant build tool to build the project. It's available at http://jakarta.apache.org/ant/ It's pretty easy to set-up, just follow the instructions at http://jakarta.apache.org/ant/manual/index.html Once it's setup, you should be able to build the project by typing the following at the command line: ant This will cause ant to build project using the default build.xml file in the addressbook project. This will create the C:\test\addressbook\lib for you. - Original Message - From: Kemp Randy-W18971 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Orion-Interest [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 6:14 AM Subject: RE: simple questions It has been a while since I have worked on the address book example, but please clarify the lib directory question. I have looked at the doc again at www.jollem.com, and it says The generated Java .class files will be placed in the lib/java/ subdirectory. This directory will be created automatically during the build process, in step 9. I don't know if ejbdoclet (spelling?), the freeware tool, in conjunction with ant, would build xml files, but that would be a good place to start looking. Anyone else have any ideas? -Original Message- From: Hasan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 9:00 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: simple questions hi, i have downloaded the addressbook example. however, i wonder where i should create the lib directory. i put all the example in the C:\TEST\addressbook folder while my orion is C:\orion. is there any tool that can help you to build the xml from the ones created by jbuilder?
RE: simple questions
The steps for deploying on Orion are found in the Orion documentation (www.orionserver.com), supplemented by Orion support (www.orionsupport.com). I suggest that you look at and implement the examples at www.jollem.com, regarding the Orion primer and Orion CMP primer. As far as Tomcat goes, look at the examples in the documentation of an open source effort that uses Tomcat, such as Jboss (www.jboss.org) or Enhydra Enterprise (www.enhydra.org). If you specifically want to use Tomcat and Orion, then a search through the Orion interest archives should address that connection, but I would personally use Resin (www.caucho.com) and Orion, and follow the EJB doc in Resin on how to connect the two. -Original Message- From: Hasan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 4:46 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: simple questions hi, i am new to j2ee. i have developed a simple app (just for adding, deleting, and editing the dbase) using ejb. i used jbuilder and inprise. can anyone explain it to me the steps to deploy it on orion? what files ,where the files to edit ,etc?? btw, though this is orion-specific, any one can tell me how to deploy it on tomcat too?? thanks
RE: Where does one download 1.4.8 [EXPIRED TRIAL LICENCE]
You need to download 1.4.5, and auto update according to directions at www.orionsupport.com/articles/update.html. -Original Message- From: Sam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 8:40 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Where does one download 1.4.8 [EXPIRED TRIAL LICENCE] I looked at www.orionserver.com
RE: ?? ?? ?? ?? kongbok@naver.com
Title: ³×À̹ö ¸ÞÀÏ Can someone translate this Korean question and answer for me? -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 10:11 AMTo: Orion-InterestSubject: ?? ?? ?? ?? [EMAIL PROTECTED] ÀÌ°øº¹ (kongbok) ´Ô²² º¸³»½Å ¸ÞÀÏ RE: simple questions ÀÌ ´ÙÀ½°ú °°Àº ÀÌÀ¯·Î Àü¼Û ½ÇÆÐÇß½À´Ï´Ù. ¼ö½ÅÀÚÀÇ ¸ÞÀÏ º¸°ü ¿ë·®ÀÌ °¡µæÂ÷ ÀÖ½À´Ï´Ù. ³ªÁß¿¡ ´Ù½Ã ½ÃµµÇϽʽÿÀ.
RE: Fun with compound primary keys
Can someone explain this question to me? -Original Message- From: Tin Hoc Pt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 1:25 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: Fun with compound primary keys mkgjfkgjfkgnjkjgfgrfg
RE: Updateing to 1.4.8
Hi Mark. The fault lies with Orion, since I just looked over their FAQ and documentation, and I couldn't find the information. Maybe I am just too groggy from lack of sleep. The command is executed from the directory orion.jar is in, and I believe this is the format (correct me if I am wrong folks. Orion or Orion support: Can we add this to FAQ or something? java orion.jar -autoupdate (folks: Correct me if I am wrong, but memory may be faulty). -Original Message- From: Mark Kettner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 9:10 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Updateing to 1.4.8 Hi All, Sorry for this very stupid message: can somebody please tell me where to download the newer releases or aren't they public domain anymore. Was looking at orionserver for an update for some time, but after 1.4.5 I couldn't update anymore. However, after looking at this mailinglist I saw that people were already using 1.4.8. I'm curious for a new version, because struts library didn't work under 1.4.5. Again, sorry to bother you all about this. -- Mark --o-o-- Mark Kettner http://www.fredhopper.com Amsterdam, The Netherlands Phone: +31 20 3206203 Mobile: +31 620 209 817 fax:+31 20 8848747 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Updating to 1.4.8
See. Sleep deprivation works. I forgot the jar command. java -jar orion.jar -autoupdate
RE: Interests sake
The only problem I found with PJA is that it replaces some core Java packages from Sun with the PJA packages. This may not be a problem, as long as new releases of the JDK and PGA don't present problems. -Original Message- From: David Kinnvall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 1:46 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: Interests sake Hmm. What _Java_ needs is a way to render graphics (incl. fonts) without relying on a running host windowing system. And, what do you know, that is actually coming our way. :-) I do _not_ need/want a GUI running on my UNIX/Linux servers, thank you very much. Be it X11 or a (highly unlikely) replacement. /David - Original Message - From: Jeff Schnitzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Orion-Interest [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 5:23 AM Subject: RE: Interests sake From: Alex 'Kazuma' Garbagnati [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] With Linux it's much easier to configure Java apps as daemons, but I can't render my dynamic images with any reasonable quality - XWindows renders fonts like a three-year-old with a half-eaten crayon :-) You should try pja. It does not require any XWindow server running and I use the same fonts available on win... I tried it. Didn't produce fonts much (if at all) better than XWindows. Also tried the xvfb, which was by far the worst option. One thing you can say about MS Windows is that it does an excellent job of rendering text :-) What Linux needs is a ground-up replacement for XWindows, IMHO. Jeff
RE: Orion support company
Do these Klingon J2EE servers function uniformly thought out the galaxy, or do they exhibit strange behaviors in black holes? -Original Message- From: Johan Fredriksson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 1:11 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: Orion support company Well, you started it!! http://www.geocities.com/connorbd/varaq/ Enjoy! Johan - Original Message - From: Thomas Pridham [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Orion-Interest [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 3:12 PM Subject: RE: Orion support company What truly happened is that the Klingons have purchased IronFlare / Orion. Starting with version 1.5.0, you will have the option of servering web pages while the web server is cloaked. The serving-pages-while-cloaked will prove to be a threat to the United Federation of J2EE Servers (made up or BEA, IBM, HP, iPlanet). :-) (yes I am a nerd, yes I couldn't resist some Star Trek humor, and yes this post serves only to be a distraction from the real work at hand) Regards, Tom Pridham -Original Message- From: Dan North [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 4:33 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: Orion support company BEA made an offer, but IBM beat them to it. As of version 1.5.0, Orion will become known as OrionSphere Application Server (TM) At 14:48 26/04/2001 +1000, you wrote: Okok everyone - for those confused. Orion did NOT get bought by BEA. JoeO was just making a joke, which obviously quite a few people missed. Call it a late April fools prank ;) REPEATING: Orion has not been bought by BEA. -mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Robert S. Sfeir Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 4:33 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: Orion support company At 11:37 AM 4/25/2001 -0400, you wrote: Orion's web site is still up? Every time I go to www.orionserver.bea.com, it comes back with an error. What's orionserver.bea.com? Dude how about www.orionserver.com, I didn't know BEA bought Orion... or did I miss some crazy post somewhere? R Robert S. Sfeir Director of Software Development PERCEPTICON corporation San Francisco, CA 94123 w - http://www.percepticon.com/ e- [EMAIL PROTECTED] t - (415) 749-2900 x205 -- Dan North VP Development - Cadrion Technologies - +44 (0)20 7440 9550 CONFIDENTIALITY This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to another person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium
RE: Orion support company
Not only that, but all the low priced and strong open source J2EE servers got together to form a Union, with the key members being Orion, Enhydra, and jboss. The new name: Boss-Hides-Onion (composite of jboss-enhydra-orion). Motto: Run with Orion and reach the stars, Or pick Jboss and count the jars. Perhaps with Enhydra you take a spin, But at these prices, You're sure to win. -Original Message- From: Duffey, Kevin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 4:34 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: Orion support company I just read today at slashdot that Oracle, Sun and Borland are also joining the team. The product has been renamed once more to OrionSphereLogicStonePlanetOracleBorland Application Server. I am a little confused why Borland was added last though as they bought in before Sun and Oracle. So it should be named OrionSphereLogicStoneBorlandPlanetOracle. But if Oracle got in before Sun, then probably it should be named OrionSphereLogicStoneBorlandOraclePlanet..which I personally think sounds better..you know, the whole Planet at the end thing just fits better. But I am not one to gossip.. -Original Message- From: KirkYarina [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 11:13 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: Orion support company Brokat jumped in, too - it's now OrionSphereLogicStone(tm), also available from PCMall and Egghead. At 06:50 AM 4/26/01 -0400, you wrote: Breaking news: It was decided there is enough for everyone to go round, reserve your copy now of OrionSphereLogic(tm) at CompUSA! While stocks last! Hani On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, Dan North wrote: BEA made an offer, but IBM beat them to it. As of version 1.5.0, Orion will become known as OrionSphere Application Server (TM) At 14:48 26/04/2001 +1000, you wrote: Okok everyone - for those confused. Orion did NOT get bought by BEA. JoeO was just making a joke, which obviously quite a few people missed. Call it a late April fools prank ;) REPEATING: Orion has not been bought by BEA. -mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Robert S. Sfeir Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 4:33 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: Orion support company At 11:37 AM 4/25/2001 -0400, you wrote: Orion's web site is still up? Every time I go to www.orionserver.bea.com, it comes back with an error. What's orionserver.bea.com? Dude how about www.orionserver.com, I didn't know BEA bought Orion... or did I miss some crazy post somewhere? R Robert S. Sfeir Director of Software Development PERCEPTICON corporation San Francisco, CA 94123 w - http://www.percepticon.com/ e- [EMAIL PROTECTED] t - (415) 749-2900 x205 -- Dan North VP Development - Cadrion Technologies - +44 (0)20 7440 9550 CONFIDENTIALITY This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to another person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium
RE: Orion performance measures ?
Have you looked at the free Apache Jmeter at http://jakarta.apache.org/? -Original Message- From: Tony Fonager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 4:20 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Orion performance meassures ? We are experimenting with Orion as an alternative to IIS on Windows 2000. But how do I meassure such things as hits pr. second, errors pr. seconds and so on, like I am used to under Windows 2000 and IIS, using the performance monitor ? Is there ANY statistics in Orion, which you can retrieve during runtime ? Thanks in advance! - Regards, Tony Fonager Netcoders ApS - http://www.netcoders.dk Copenhagen, Denmark
RE: Orion performance measures ?
Title: RE: Orion performance meassures ? Besides Apache Jmeter (jakarta.apache.org), and Orion's internal statistics, look at www.acelet.com and their stress test component (http://www.acelet.com/super/help/tour/StressTour.html) . -Original Message-From: Larry Velez [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 12:23 PMTo: Orion-InterestSubject: RE: Orion performance meassures ? Is there any way these statistics can be queried and exported either locally or remotely. I would like to create performance reports based on Memory usage, Average hits, load, etc. thanx, Larry (Running Orion on NT) -Original Message- From: Johan Fredriksson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 4:59 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: Orion performance meassures ? Yes there are some statistics... java -jar orionconsole.jar - Original Message - From: "Tony Fonager" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Orion-Interest" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 11:19 PM Subject: Orion performance meassures ? We are experimenting with Orion as an alternative to IIS on Windows 2000. But how do I meassure such things as "hits pr. second", "errors pr. seconds" and so on, like I am used to under Windows 2000 and IIS, using the performance monitor ? Is there ANY statistics in Orion, which you can retrieve during runtime ? Thanks in advance! - Regards, Tony Fonager Netcoders ApS - http://www.netcoders.dk Copenhagen, Denmark
RE: Is the list dead?
The mail has slowed down, but is still up and running. Less mail is also a good sign, in that the number of problems or issues is very low. -Original Message- From: Ismael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 5:56 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Is the list dead? Hi all, Is the list still running? The number of mails received have decreased to 0 !!! Are you still there??
graphing software
I have been working with the graphing software at www.ve.com/kavachart, and it is free and used by many major companies. I am not sure if my first kava chart message was received.
RE: Orion support company
You have the web site wrong. It should be www.beanowowner.orionservernomore.com -Original Message- From: Yuri V. Turban [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 10:37 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: Orion support company Orion's web site is still up? Every time I go to www.orionserver.bea.com, it comes back with an error. You must be kidding !!! -:)
RE: Charting/Graphing libraries
I am working with a free package now at www.ve.com/kavachart. They come with either a servlet or applet version, and there is a developers kit at a cheap price. -Original Message- From: Van Dooren, Damian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 7:46 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Charting/Graphing libraries Does anyone have any suggestions for a good charting/graphing library to use within a servlet to generate jpgs or gifs preferably from XML data. Thanks. - Damian Van Dooren Information Technology The Investment Centre
RE: What is a relevant question?
But is it a thought just popping into the head, or an attempt to find the best approach to a problem, surveying all the different solutions people have used? Personally, I like the Jar approach the best, and it does work well on Solaris. And nobody twists anyone's arm into responding. -Original Message- From: Hani Suleiman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 8:56 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: What is a relavent question? I'm sorry, but I (and many others of these 'less-than-professional' programmers you're talking about) feel (rightly or wrongly) that people should not post whenever a thought pops in their heads. That seems like a very lazy approach to problem solving that puts serious doubts on their credentials as a 'professional' anything. EVERYONE has questions that they do not immediately know the answer to. Often, the answer can be found with one or two minutes of searching and investigating. I'd much rather someone spend that time than the 3 minutes it takes for them to write the email, and the hundreds of collective minutes wasted by other people responding (yes, posts like this included!) There is a line between what is OK to ask and what is not. Granted, it's blurry, but I'd like to think that it just requires a little bit of common sense to sense. How to zip things is on the wrong side of that line, serious undocumented quirks with rh7 and java are on the right side. if you have something stupid to say, don't say anything at all! :) Trying this tongue biting thing again, Hani On Mon, 23 Apr 2001, Thomas Pridham wrote: Very good post. I try to help out as much as I can, but I also need assistance from time to time. No one should be afraid to post on this list, no matter how many times the question has been addressed (i.e. How do I update to the latest version?). I am growing tired of the less-than-professional-programmers that provide smart-ass remarks / flames to people's genuine questions. I do feel one solution would be to use a Bulletin Board instead of a mailing list. That way, the questions could be placed into categories and you wouldn't have to read a ton of email. Just my opinion If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all! :) Regards, Tom Pridham -Original Message- From: Kemp Randy-W18971 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 10:59 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: What is a relavent question? This question did occur to me, and Socrates would have a field day with it. Since this list has everyone from visitors, EJB beginners, EJB server builders, and anyone in between, what is a relavent question? More importantly, what is a relavent answer? To me, any question related to Orion or EJB is relavent. Now there are various positions on giving answers. Some may say to read the EJB specs Sun put out for answers. Others will say to read the books on EJB. Some would say to use the search engines. Still others, like myself, will give answers if we know it. Why do we do this? To add more EJB folks to the fold, and because we enjoy doing it. Now I can get off on a tangent sometimes, and there are times that is good, like trying to present some ideas to help Orion become more popular. And yes, I also like open source, if it is good or has potential. I run Apache in production, but I also run Oracle. To zip or not to zip, that is the question? And many kind folks answered that question. And I, in turn may someday answer that question. So what is an irrelavent question? In all the 190 Stooge shorts, how many contained pie fights? Five How does the Dali Lama start his day? He meditates for two hours before listening to the BBC. Why were people called Mat Hatters in Alice In Wonderland? Because they made hats using mercury and the fumes drived them made. Who are my EJB heroes? The folks at Orion, Jboss, and Enhydra, because they are making affordable EJB servers to make this technology available to everyone. Why does Einstein not know his phone number? Because he thought it was irrelavent information and could look it up in the phone book.
RE: Orion CLASSPATH
I believe it is internally setting it. When I transported the Orion and Orion Primer examples (www.jollem.com) to Jboss (www.jboss.org) as a learning exercise, I had to define the package settings externally in my classpath for jboss. For Orion, I didn't have to do this, but I don't know what's really going on under the hood. -Original Message- From: Geoffrey Marshall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 11:30 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Orion CLASSPATH Hello all! Can anyone tell me what Orion is doing with the CLASSPATH. I suspect it is building its own or adding to mine simply because it knows how to find certain jars that I have not specified anywhere. Any info appreciated... -- Geoffrey W. MarshallDirector of Development --- t e r r a s c o p ephone (415) 951-4944 54 Mint St #110 direct (415) 625-0349 San Francisco, CA 94103 fax (415) 625-0306 ---
What is a relavent question?
This question did occur to me, and Socrates would have a field day with it. Since this list has everyone from visitors, EJB beginners, EJB server builders, and anyone in between, what is a relavent question? More importantly, what is a relavent answer? To me, any question related to Orion or EJB is relavent. Now there are various positions on giving answers. Some may say to read the EJB specs Sun put out for answers. Others will say to read the books on EJB. Some would say to use the search engines. Still others, like myself, will give answers if we know it. Why do we do this? To add more EJB folks to the fold, and because we enjoy doing it. Now I can get off on a tangent sometimes, and there are times that is good, like trying to present some ideas to help Orion become more popular. And yes, I also like open source, if it is good or has potential. I run Apache in production, but I also run Oracle. To zip or not to zip, that is the question? And many kind folks answered that question. And I, in turn may someday answer that question. So what is an irrelavent question? In all the 190 Stooge shorts, how many contained pie fights? Five How does the Dali Lama start his day? He meditates for two hours before listening to the BBC. Why were people called Mat Hatters in Alice In Wonderland? Because they made hats using mercury and the fumes drived them made. Who are my EJB heroes? The folks at Orion, Jboss, and Enhydra, because they are making affordable EJB servers to make this technology available to everyone. Why does Einstein not know his phone number? Because he thought it was irrelavent information and could look it up in the phone book.
RE: .zip files and solaris
And what, par say, is revevant to the list? This list gets everyone from EJB beginners to people who build EJB servers. My philosophy is always this. If a beginner asks a question, and I can answer it and get them into the J2EE fold, then I am all for it. If an expert has a question, and I can learn from it, so much the better. And no, I am not a dumb person, but if a person can give me an answer in one minute, is it a waste of time? For the record, I have friends who are PhDs from Oxford, Stanford, and the University of Chicago, and I also have friends who work in factories. I treat all alike and no question is ever dumb or irrelavent. -Original Message- From: Hani Suleiman To: Orion-Interest Sent: 4/21/01 4:35 PM Subject: RE: .zip files and solaris Yes, surprise surprise, there are in fact ways of unpacking zipfiles on Solaris. Who would have guessed. Whatever next, being able to unpack them on linux, or evenWindows?! Such craziness. I wonder what innovations we'll have NEXT year! How about people think for a second before posting: 'does what I am about to send to ORION-INTEREST have anything to do with ORION?' Just a remind (yes, this is non-orion-interest specific, but will help us all live much happier lives), before you post to any technical mailing list, so the following: 1) Determine if the problem is relevant to the list 2) Check the mailing list archive 3) Check google 4) Reconsider 5) Post On Sat, 21 Apr 2001, Tim Endres wrote: Check your facts. Under Linux with JDK1.3.1rc1: time jar tvf kp-051299.zip 0 Wed May 12 10:03:52 EDT 1999 exception/ 1956 Tue May 11 12:23:32 EDT 1999 exception/codebase.dat 5310 Fri May 07 16:11:46 EDT 1999 exception/exception.vjp 3609 Mon Feb 01 10:22:42 EST 1999 exception/KPCareTeamAddrNotFoundException.java 2628 Mon Nov 23 13:20:52 EST 1998 exception/KPClassNotInitializedException.java 3458 Tue Apr 06 15:51:56 EDT 1999 exception/KPGeneralException.java 2583 Sat Jan 30 13:32:36 EST 1999 exception/KPInstantiationException.java ... So it works for me. tim. That'll NEVER work for a zip -Original Message- From: Tim Endres [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2001 10:17 PM To: Orion-Interest Cc: Kemp Randy Subject: Re: .zip files and solaris jar xvf file.jar In development, I work with Orion on both Solaris and Windows 2000. But there must be an easier way of dealing with Orion and Jboss zip files. I use winzip to unzip them in Windows, and FTP the unzipped version to Solaris. Is there any third party software to unzip a zip file on solaris? Tar and tar.gz are easy. What does everyone use for Orion on solaris? I haven't addressed this question to my Unix administration folks yet, and I thought I would try here first. __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/
RE: On large programming teams [RE: A Swedish Idea]
Yes! A wonderful book I read many years ago. There used to be a saying I heard, which management practices universally. If a woman can produce a baby in nine months, then nine women can produce a baby in one month. The only problem with Gates is that he has no real competition. Linux is probably the closest, and they don't really have a cutting share of Bill's market. -Original Message- From: Frank Eggink To: Orion-Interest Sent: 4/21/01 7:01 AM Subject: On large programming teams [RE: A Swedish Idea] The following is one of the classic readings on programming at large. 25 years old and I can still recommend it: "The Mythical Man-Month" from F.P. Brooks jr. Yes, it's even 26 years old and talks about OS/360, some odd system which is now out performed by your 100$ marketvalue Pentium I machine, but programming is done by humans which haven't much changed over the last 25 years. On the experience I have had so far with large projects I can only agree with him. Changing one of his 'laws' slightly: "Adding more programmers to a product makes the product worse". So far I have not found evidence against this law ;-) FE On Thursday, April 19, 2001 3:06 PM, Jay Armstrong [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: Generally, I agree with the comment about Micro$oft quality of code, though I've seen some pretty horrible code from outside the US, too. :) Bill Gates may be from the US, but Micro$oft employees come from all over the world. Visit Redmond, WA, USA and you'll see for yourself. At 09:50 AM 4/19/01 +0200, you wrote: And Micro$oft programmers are from...? I suppose that the country they're from produce the shittiest code of em all :) Johan - Original Message - From: "Joseph B. Ottinger" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Orion-Interest" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 4:20 PM Subject: Re: A Swedish Idea Personally, I'm becoming more and more convinced that not only is Sweden full of lousy programmers, but they're all lousy in congruent ways just to make the rest of the world's jobs harder. I say we all start using Bavarian products, if only because Bavarian names seem to have a better vowel/consonant ratio. Say, Randy... what country are YOU from? (That's the leading indicator for quality of code...) On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 08:49:24AM -0500, Kemp Randy-W18971 wrote: Now this may be a dumb idea, and I am just thinking up brainstorms to promote Orion, but it occurred to me that both Mysql and Orion are in Sweden. Now I don't know how big Sweden is, but perhaps a meeting between the two teams could find ways to mutually promote or bridge the two products. Just a thought. Speaking of Sweden, since Rickard O. from Jboss lives there, does anyone know of Magnus or Karl have meet him? In once sense, but Jboss and Orion are trying to make this EJB technology available to more people. -- --- Joseph B. Ottinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://epesh.com/ IT Consultant
RE: A Swedish Idea
Yes, but it does. It provides comic relief. One tread quest asked what happens if Orion when under. No problem. Eventually Jboss and Enhydra will get there. And no, they really don't compete with Orion. There's enough of the pie to go around, and I want them all to succeed, and get the big overpriced servers a run for the money. Should Mysql and Orion talk? Does it need to be formal? It could go something like this via the phone. Mysql: We should talk, no? Maybe get together for a brew or go ice fishing? Orion: Sounds good, no? A tourist stopped by, and asked what can we do in Sweden. I told him to watch the moose dance on the ice. Mysql: They liked it, no? Orion: Couldn't tell. They said the moose fell all over his own feet. The tourist went on a Wednesday. Mysql: No wonder. You should have them go on weekends. Weekdays are amateur nights. -Original Message- From: David Kinnvall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 2:32 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: A Swedish Idea They never get there about as much as this thread in its current shape provides any value whatsoever to Orion users. IMHO. /David - Original Message - From: "Hani Suleiman" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Orion-Interest" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 7:08 PM Subject: RE: A Swedish Idea Yes, and like many turtles, they never get there. Believing in fairy tales is not a good basis for conducting business. The turtle and rabbit story is a way to tell average children 'yes, you might be stupid and slow, but you should keep trying'. I don't think you should take it too seriously. Hani
RE: Orion support available @pacific time
Can you share a company email and phone number contact? -Original Message- From: denis despinoy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 4:29 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Orion support available @pacific time Hey Guys, We've elected Orion as our appserver about 7 months ago and got rid of Weblogic at the same time. We are now shipping our product and were tremendously suffering from lack of technical support services from Orion. Issues that were brought up too many times by our client and were causing grievances to our sales team. We met a company specializing in j2ee support and they are now offering tech and consulting support for Orion. They operate on Pacific Time and We are quite pleased with them, our clients are now reassured and our offer is as good as any other... That company is called netcracker based out of San Jose (CA). Guess u might be want to know this. denis Javadaemonus __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/
RE: A Swedish Idea
Can anyone answer the question of whether Mysql does or doesn't support transaction? I believe the official position of Mysql is that they do support transactions in their recent release with the Berkeley DB engine. Am I misreading or misunderstanding something? -Original Message- From: Hani Suleiman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 4:24 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: A Swedish Idea Argh, I really did try hard not to respond, but I can resist no longer... 'it's good enough for NASA' means nothing, nor is it relevant. Win98 is good enough for many 'respected' corporations, that does not mean we should all follow suit. Horses for courses, my friend. Mysql does not support transactions, which are REQUIRED for J2EE. It's 'good enough' for certain types of applications, however, it is NOT good enough for J2EE. End of discussion. I think you're working off of a very false assumption, which seems to go like this: I like technology X I like technology Y Technology X and technology Y must get married, to form technology Z that I will think is the nest thing since sliced bread. Sadly, while there's nothing wrong with the first two steps, the third seems to be a bit of aleap of faith. Hani On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, Kemp Randy-W18971 wrote: Transactions are supported with the Berkeley transaction engine in the current Mysql release. A prior user has answered how to set this up. Kiddie database? Did you tell Nasa that? They made a recent (Dec. 2000, I believe) decision to use Mysql in some of their business systems (hopefully, not the space modules). Yes, others like postgresql are more advanced, but mysql is as good as hsql, and would be a good modeling, prototype database. For the record, I use both mysql (for testing and prototyping) and Oracle 8I (for the real stuff). And everyone can learn from them in how to write good documentation. -Original Message- From: Dan North [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 2:08 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: A Swedish Idea Ok, I'll bite. Orion is not an open source product and probably never will be. The fact that it is free for development purposes and remarkably inexpensive for deployment shouldn't alter your perception of (a) the ownership and proprietary nature of the code, or (b) the quality of the product. MySQL is a quick and dirty database. It has a number of glaring omissions compared to most grown-up RDBs (transactions and sub-selects to name but two), and there are better open source products out there (Interbase and PostgreSQL spring to mind) for scalability, robustness, data integrity, yada yada yada. Therefore not the ideal companion for a product built to support a technology that is all of these things. Use a kiddie database if you must, but please don't inflict it on the rest of us! Cheers, Dan/tastapod ps. LogicSphere - mmm - can't wait! At 10:17 18/04/2001 -0400, you wrote: Why?!?! I have an idea, why don't IBM and BEA team up and release...logicsphere! After all, they're both US companies... On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, Kemp Randy-W18971 wrote: Now this may be a dumb idea, and I am just thinking up brainstorms to promote Orion, but it occurred to me that both Mysql and Orion are in Sweden. Now I don't know how big Sweden is, but perhaps a meeting between the two teams could find ways to mutually promote or bridge the two products. Just a thought. Speaking of Sweden, since Rickard O. from Jboss lives there, does anyone know of Magnus or Karl have meet him? In once sense, but Jboss and Orion are trying to make this EJB technology available to more people. -- Dan North VP Development - Cadrion Technologies Ltd - +44 (0)20 7440 9550 CONFIDENTIALITY This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to another person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium
RE: [RE]..
Are you attending the Timbuktu Java convention, by chance? -Original Message-From: Kanbay Saravanan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 4:29 AMTo: Orion-InterestSubject: Re: [RE].. please do not study java.it is waste to study java...i am working in java and we have no projects at all.. we never think we will get getting one.. Saravanan Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
RE: A Swedish Idea
It has been said that if Bill Gates stopped to pick up a hundred dollar bill, he would be losing money. On a more serious note, it's really not the Bill company code so much, as their practice of releasing alpha or beta quality products as production quality. -Original Message- From: Jay Armstrong [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 8:06 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: A Swedish Idea Generally, I agree with the comment about Micro$oft quality of code, though I've seen some pretty horrible code from outside the US, too. :) Bill Gates may be from the US, but Micro$oft employees come from all over the world. Visit Redmond, WA, USA and you'll see for yourself. At 09:50 AM 4/19/01 +0200, you wrote: And Micro$oft programmers are from...? I suppose that the country they're from produce the shittiest code of em all :) Johan - Original Message - From: "Joseph B. Ottinger" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Orion-Interest" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 4:20 PM Subject: Re: A Swedish Idea Personally, I'm becoming more and more convinced that not only is Sweden full of lousy programmers, but they're all lousy in congruent ways just to make the rest of the world's jobs harder. I say we all start using Bavarian products, if only because Bavarian names seem to have a better vowel/consonant ratio. Say, Randy... what country are YOU from? (That's the leading indicator for quality of code...) On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 08:49:24AM -0500, Kemp Randy-W18971 wrote: Now this may be a dumb idea, and I am just thinking up brainstorms to promote Orion, but it occurred to me that both Mysql and Orion are in Sweden. Now I don't know how big Sweden is, but perhaps a meeting between the two teams could find ways to mutually promote or bridge the two products. Just a thought. Speaking of Sweden, since Rickard O. from Jboss lives there, does anyone know of Magnus or Karl have meet him? In once sense, but Jboss and Orion are trying to make this EJB technology available to more people. -- --- Joseph B. Ottinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://epesh.com/ IT Consultant
RE: Orion as a service on Windows NT 4
There is something addressing that issue on www.orionsupport.com. -Original Message- From: George Mardale [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 7:29 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Orion as a service on Windows NT 4 Hello everybody! I want to install Orion as a service on Windows NT 4. Can anyone give me an idea how to do it? Thanks in advance, George.
RE: A Swedish Idea
OSS is like the turtles. They slowly craw along, and the best eventually get there. In the early days, folks would say "Apache who"? Oh yes, that's the opening band for the Beatles. Postgresql? Is that what Goldilocks ate in the three bears? And these are the same people who, when they first heard the name Beatles, they said "call the bug exterminator." And when they heard the name Rolling Stones, they say, "where's the avalanche?" -Original Message- From: Hani Suleiman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 10:03 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: A Swedish Idea flamebait Unlike all those OSS products huh. /flamebait On Thu, 19 Apr 2001, Kemp Randy-W18971 wrote: It has been said that if Bill Gates stopped to pick up a hundred dollar bill, he would be losing money. On a more serious note, it's really not the Bill company code so much, as their practice of releasing alpha or beta quality products as production quality. -Original Message- From: Jay Armstrong [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 8:06 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: A Swedish Idea Generally, I agree with the comment about Micro$oft quality of code, though I've seen some pretty horrible code from outside the US, too. :) Bill Gates may be from the US, but Micro$oft employees come from all over the world. Visit Redmond, WA, USA and you'll see for yourself. At 09:50 AM 4/19/01 +0200, you wrote: And Micro$oft programmers are from...? I suppose that the country they're from produce the shittiest code of em all :) Johan - Original Message - From: "Joseph B. Ottinger" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Orion-Interest" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 4:20 PM Subject: Re: A Swedish Idea Personally, I'm becoming more and more convinced that not only is Sweden full of lousy programmers, but they're all lousy in congruent ways just to make the rest of the world's jobs harder. I say we all start using Bavarian products, if only because Bavarian names seem to have a better vowel/consonant ratio. Say, Randy... what country are YOU from? (That's the leading indicator for quality of code...) On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 08:49:24AM -0500, Kemp Randy-W18971 wrote: Now this may be a dumb idea, and I am just thinking up brainstorms to promote Orion, but it occurred to me that both Mysql and Orion are in Sweden. Now I don't know how big Sweden is, but perhaps a meeting between the two teams could find ways to mutually promote or bridge the two products. Just a thought. Speaking of Sweden, since Rickard O. from Jboss lives there, does anyone know of Magnus or Karl have meet him? In once sense, but Jboss and Orion are trying to make this EJB technology available to more people. -- --- Joseph B. Ottinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://epesh.com/ IT Consultant
RE: A Swedish Idea
I'm from the USA, near Chicago, Il. What countries lead in quality of code? I would like to know. No matter what country the product is produced in, you might find software engineers from the USA, England, India, etc., all working on the same software product. Open source efforts like Enhydra, Tomcat, or Jboss have contributors from all around the world. It's like trying to find a car made in the USA. Parts come from Japan, it's assembled in Mexico, and marketed in the US. Orion is an exception, since they are basically a two man operation. Yet I do think the two young gentlemen did a bang up job between them. They just need help with other facets, such as documentation, marketing, and support. And even superman is part of a team called the Justice League, since he can't solve everything by himself. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 9:20 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: A Swedish Idea Personally, I'm becoming more and more convinced that not only is Sweden full of lousy programmers, but they're all lousy in congruent ways just to make the rest of the world's jobs harder. I say we all start using Bavarian products, if only because Bavarian names seem to have a better vowel/consonant ratio. Say, Randy... what country are YOU from? (That's the leading indicator for quality of code...) On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 08:49:24AM -0500, Kemp Randy-W18971 wrote: Now this may be a dumb idea, and I am just thinking up brainstorms to promote Orion, but it occurred to me that both Mysql and Orion are in Sweden. Now I don't know how big Sweden is, but perhaps a meeting between the two teams could find ways to mutually promote or bridge the two products. Just a thought. Speaking of Sweden, since Rickard O. from Jboss lives there, does anyone know of Magnus or Karl have meet him? In once sense, but Jboss and Orion are trying to make this EJB technology available to more people. -- --- Joseph B. Ottinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://epesh.com/ IT Consultant
RE: A Swedish Idea
I said it may be a dumb idea. -Original Message- From: Hani Suleiman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 9:18 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: A Swedish Idea Why?!?! I have an idea, why don't IBM and BEA team up and release...logicsphere! After all, they're both US companies... On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, Kemp Randy-W18971 wrote: Now this may be a dumb idea, and I am just thinking up brainstorms to promote Orion, but it occurred to me that both Mysql and Orion are in Sweden. Now I don't know how big Sweden is, but perhaps a meeting between the two teams could find ways to mutually promote or bridge the two products. Just a thought. Speaking of Sweden, since Rickard O. from Jboss lives there, does anyone know of Magnus or Karl have meet him? In once sense, but Jboss and Orion are trying to make this EJB technology available to more people.
RE: Is this the Orion Team?
If you go to the Swedish newspaper site, there is a picture of the developers. -Original Message- From: Johan Fredriksson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 3:09 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: Is this the Orion Team? Yes - Original Message - From: "Kemp Randy" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Orion-Interest" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 2:32 AM Subject: Is this the Orion Team? Some digging though the.serverside.com, at the link http://www2.theserverside.com/reviews/thread.jsp?thread_id=165, uncovered this. Posted By: Per Norrman on November 3, 2000 in response to this message. A couple of weeks ago, the Orion team was featured in Dagens Nyheter, the largest swedish newspaper. Learn swedish, then read this article: http://www.dn.se/DNet/dyn/Crosslink.dyn?d=408a=135807f=huvudtext.htmlt=2; v=0 In short, the Orion team consists of two guys, 22 and 24 years old, working from an apartment in Eskilstuna, Sweden. The article mentiones that they spent about two years and approx 14 000 programming hours before their first order. However, that implies constantly working more than 19 hours a day for two years Also, they have refused venture capital and and other offers, on the grounds that it would limit their freedom of doing things their own way. __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
RE: Re: ORION RISE FROM THE DEAD!
The problem Orion will face is that the open source and low cost competition will be heating up, and as the quality improves, so will the competition. Who should they watch out for? 1.Resin (www.caucho.com). When they finally get an EJB server out, it will be set to integrate with Resin and have a competitive price (around $2000). 2. Jboss (www.jboss.org) and Enhydra Enterprise (www.enhydra.org), which are actively enhancing and developing their application servers. 3. Jonas (www.evidian.com/jonas) and openejb (http://openejb.exolab.org/), where the latter is making partnerships with Apache, etc. Notice I did not mention Unify, which also has a low cost entry, but they still need to get their financial act together. So why do I bring these items to light? So that Orion is aware of the competition, and like the rabbit, doesn't take a nap, but keeps moving forward, as the turtles get better prepared. -Original Message- From: Johan Fredriksson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 2:47 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: Re: ORION RISE FROM THE DEAD! As I mentioned before in a previous posting, the Orion team will continue their work on the Orion product, partners will do the support. Support will in the future be the "milking cow" ( don't know if that one translates well into english, where you get the money...), and there you have the business modell. At least that's how I interpreted Karl Avedals speech. Johan - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Orion-Interest" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 12:53 AM Subject: Re: Re: ORION RISE FROM THE DEAD! I really hope that Orion is released into the open-source community if they're going to tank as a business. I never thought of that. I guess the real question may be: "What is Orion's/Ironflare's business model?" Taking a wild guess, not based on any first hand knowledge/contact/experience, the 'problem' may be that orion's developer's want to continue programming and not become consultants, support technicians, etc... Which would be great to have quality developers on the project full time, but this seems contrary to a lot of the service models that are out there now. A lot of companies now repackage open source and get paid on service/consulting. Perhaps they need a quality partner or need to be bought out (maybe macromedia should have bought them out instead of buying allaire)...who knows...I'm not an expert in this field as I'm sure my views have proved. So I may be way off base. I'm just an avid java developer with a small, nimble company that likes to develop and utilize small, quick, and well-written software. (did you also ever notice that orion seems to be at most h! ! ! alf the size of other major app servers?) By the way, if some help is needed to host (or provide an alternative to) orionsupport, please let me know. I know the boss here; I'm sure we could work something out. I think a lot of people would help out in this department (including myself), especially if it was open source. I already have a kind of how-to in the works for SSL using chained certificates from Entrust.net. David
The translated Swedish interview
Yesterday, I brought information on the founders being
interviewed in a Swedish newspaper. Today, with the
help of Tolken99, a Swedish English translation
software, I bring the interview in English
(translation software being what it is).
001010
Young gains over IT-jättar
Of Inger Sundelin
ESKILSTUNA. For a good half of it two year then
decided himself Magnus Stenman and Chap Avedal in
order to start a own programutvecklingsföretag.
The first ordern took the in våras and today have the
customers all over the world. Unlike many other
it-företagare is it not miljonerna that entices most -
without that get be with that actuate front a
programutveckling with open standards there also the
big mjukvaruföretagen tvingas cooperate.
We hits Magnus Stenman and Chap Avedal over a cup
coffee in the kitchen at home at Magnus in Eskilstuna
there he live along with flickvännen Elin Bjällhage,
that also is part-owner in the company and ansvarar
for ekonomin. Something office have the not without
all sköts from home.
24-årige Chap, that last the datavetenskapliga the
education in Linköping, and 22-årige Magnus, that is
entirely self taught, träffades by a diskussionsgrupp
on The internet for programmer. Magnus had begun
develop a webserver entirely in Java - a gathering
grundverktyg that programmer use in order to build
e-handelsplatser and other advanced webblösningar -
and bid in Chap that be with.
After uppskattningsvis 14.000 hours of
programmeringsslit could the in våras teckna the first
ordern and now have the a 60-tal customers. Dutch
tevebolaget VPRO, the australiensiska sajten The
internet.com, dryckestillverkaren Rode Bull and
norwegian Telenors Wap-tjänst in order to just take
some example.
And it without that the really satsat a sole crown on
marketing. Kunderna have actua sought up them.
- This is a thin market and all know to which that
exists there, says Chap. Furthermore lies all program
out on The internet as that being customers can
testköra them before the decides himself.
But how dares kunderna chose a small unknown
tvåpersonersbolag in front of multinationella company
that IBM or Oracle with loads of personnel?
- It's too really none that know that there just is we
two that stands behind Orionservern, says Magnus.
Furthermore builds our program on the same standard
that all other Javaapplikationsservrar as would the
become dissatisfied can the simple swap to a other
program.
Chap supplements:
- In the first hand receives we customers on ours
technical merits, but we gains also sympati in order
to we is small and holds flame prices, says Chap. We
takes 1.500 dollars per license while BEA that is
marknadsledande with her program Weblogic takes about
30.000 dollars per license.
But why as a little? You would why be able to take ten
times so much paid and yet be half as expensive that
yours störste competitor.
- We think not that there shall cost more than as,
says Magnus and Chap with a mouth. It's some of our
philosophy that all shall have ability to use the
program, not just the with very money. We want to do
programvarumarknaden public for all and force the big
companies that follow after.
Now can the at last begin take out wages for her work
and next step becomes that employ a or two duktiga
programmer. Then must the obtain a truly office - and
on sikt maybe also a vd. All this want to Chap and
Magnus pay with own average. Some money utifrån is the
not intresserade of, all the same not in nuläget.
- We has got several offerings if riskkapital but we
have pervading thanked no, says Chap. With outsider
finansiärer would it ställas more requirements on us
and then became it less focus on the product.
Equally decidedly have the thanked no to propåer if
uppköp and employment.
- We want to satsa on this and do it on our ways. The
friheten can we not have if somebody else owns us or
that employees, says Magnus. Would it not go as know
we that we can get a new job in morning day.
Dundersuccé not given in IT-branschen
/DNet/dune/GetArticle.dune/f,text.html The
software javascript:FaktaOpen('fakta.html');
Klickbar image javascript:nyBild()
javascript:nyBild()
Elin Bjällhage, Magnus Stenman and Chap Avedal
tightens musklerna in the hard international
konkurrensen if programutveckling
__
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
Is this the Orion Team?
Some digging though the.serverside.com, at the link http://www2.theserverside.com/reviews/thread.jsp?thread_id=165, uncovered this. Posted By: Per Norrman on November 3, 2000 in response to this message. A couple of weeks ago, the Orion team was featured in Dagens Nyheter, the largest swedish newspaper. Learn swedish, then read this article: http://www.dn.se/DNet/dyn/Crosslink.dyn?d=408a=135807f=huvudtext.htmlt=2v=0 In short, the Orion team consists of two guys, 22 and 24 years old, working from an apartment in Eskilstuna, Sweden. The article mentiones that they spent about two years and approx 14 000 programming hours before their first order. However, that implies constantly working more than 19 hours a day for two years Also, they have refused venture capital and and other offers, on the grounds that it would limit their freedom of doing things their own way. __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
RE: Future directions for orion support
There are many ways to handle support issues, and I can give some ideas. An interesting model is to see what commercial products like Resin (www.caucho.com) are doing. They offer several levels of support, based on different prices, and they have the source code available to customers. Currently they sell a great JSP engine, with plans to add EJB support in the future. So what can Orion learn from them? 1. They can make the source code available. 2. They could hire more Java programmers. I am sure they are in Sweden, since the Orion team lives there, in addition to Rickard O., a cofounder and developer of Jboss. 3. If the source code were available, more people from this list could become familar with it, and hire themselves out as support consultants. 4. Make partnerships with other companies to offer support, which would still mean having the source code available to the companies. 5. Hire a technical writer to create a manual, equavalent to the jboss manual. The sale of one server for $1500 would more then pay for this effort. 6. Get purchased by a deep pockets company, that has no EJB or JSP products, and become part of their staff. I could go on, but ideas are easy to come up with, and are not difficult to implement. Now on to other servers and open source. Orion is unique, since it can offer a great commercial server for $1500, and offer features compatible with BEA. But while the open source efforts, such as Jboss, Enhydra, Jonas, and openejb, are still in their infancy, and you may not want to use them for production now, I personally root for them, encourage them, and in time, I believe they will offer production quality products that compete with the big names. And if Orion keeps on plugging away, they too will be immensely successful. May the force be with them all. -Original Message- From: Stan Ng To: Orion-Interest Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 4/13/01 10:09 PM Subject: Future directions for orion support A most interesting twist... Hmm... I dunno, this is most unexpected. It's probably best to wait a couple days so that Joseph/Magnus can address this issue. Given that Orionsupport went dark today, it seems control of orionsupport has passed on to the orionserver/Ironflare folks. That may indicate a dedicated support site in the near future or it may mean that community support will now slow to a crawl... The Orion developers have been mighty quiet. I really like Orion as a product and would prefer to see it become immensely successful. Nevertheless the lack of feedback from Ironflare is disconcerting... Personally, I'm hedging my bets with jboss Returning to the core question -- I wholeheartedly agree that better support is vital, be it official or community-based. If no groundbreaking news comes from Ironflare or orionsupport, I'm all for orionsig. - Original Message - From: "Michael J. Cannon" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Orion-Interest" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 6:07 PM Subject: RE: productive comment. Another bit of info: From NSI WHOIS: http://www.networksolutions.com/cgi-bin/whois/whois?STRING=orionsupport. com STRING=Search Magnus owns it now. NOW WHAT? Michael J. Cannon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Stan Ng Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 5:37 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: productive comment. I'm all for this idea. Orionsupport is a community support effort run on a volunteer basis and I believe that it is hosted on Joseph's development machine using Orion. :) : ) :) I'd be willing to help shoulder some of the costs in moving everything over to an ISP host. There's no need for a new domain, imho... orionsupport has been very open and supportive (no pun intended). I say that we just give those good folks a nice place to put everything without tying up their resources. Community support for Orion has been excellent. The thing I'm worried about is how the Orion developers are doing... is there anything we can do to help out the guys at orionserver/ironflare? - Original Message - From: "Michael J. Cannon" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Orion-Interest" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 10:47 PM Subject: RE: productive comment. RE: How do we take the next step? A sig is, classically a _S_pecial _I_nterest _G_roup, in the computer culture. orionsig.net, orionsig.org and orionsig.com are available. Pick 'em. Don't need a license from anyone to be a 'general purpose special interest group,' as long as you don't purport to be in any 'special' circumstance or make unfounded claims or use words that have obvious legal meaning. I've got a fixed IP, but it's on a slow and restricted connection. I know an ISP that is easy to work with, charges $39/mo, knows how to run services for Java, and is relatively
RE: ORION RISE FROM THE DEAD! - What we have here is a failure to communicate ...
Mike: I do agree with all the concern about Orion's lack of response. I think that three good developers created a great product, but didn't give much thought into how to market, support, and document it, should it reach a good level of success. I suppose we should ask this question: Is there any other ways we can help the Orion team? Perhaps we can get a documentation manual effort together, like the Jboss folks are doing. I know that the folks at www.orionsupport.com and www.jollem.com are doing a great job. And yes, I agree that Orion is way ahead of the open source efforts, such as Jboss, Enhydra, Jonas, and openEJb at this point in time (not that I don't root for them, since I want them to also get to a point to give the big guys some concern). So Orion, if we as a community can help you, tell us how. Randy -Original Message- From: Mike Sick To: Orion-Interest Sent: 4/12/01 4:20 PM Subject: Re: ORION RISE FROM THE DEAD! - What we have here is a failure to communicate ... Hey Randy, I think that most people who bothered to join this list want Orion to succeed and I can see how you might have taken David's words badly. There's no doubt that there are a significant number of Orion fans that are very dedicated (me included). It's natural, however, to want resolution and orionserver's lack of progress in the last few months should raise significant concern. Add 'a failure to communicate' to the mix and concern will turn to frustration, desperation, and worse. Orion's strength as a product has allowed a small but significant developer community to emerge around it. The activity on this list, the various support sites, and the strong word of mouth growth of Orion are all signs that developers care and will support the product. But it's impossible to help if you don't know what's wrong. Mike Sick - Original Message - From: "Kemp Randy-W18971" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Orion-Interest" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 3:55 PM Subject: RE: ORION RISE FROM THE DEAD! David: Most people on this list are fans of Orion and are rooting for them to succeed. Personally, I root for the small guys, like Orion, Jboss, and Jonas, only because this technology should be available to everyone, and not just companies with deep pockets. Orion is the only commercial server under $5000 that is any good, and able to go toe to toe with BEA on several points. I wouldn't want them to go out of business, and would much rather Orion became an open source project before that happens. It has too much potential to fold. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 1:34 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: ORION RISE FROM THE DEAD! I've been watching Orion for awhile using/testing. It so close to being ideal for me and my clients and we are ready to buy. But development seems to have stopped lately. Updates to the web site are virtually non-existant (ie ORION 1.2 released on main site)...meanwhile we are up to 1.4.5 since Jan 22. I am happy with its current state. I just sucessfully tested SSL with it. I haven't done much in terms of EJB yet, but my experiences with orion still have been great. SO ORION - Please get your act together. Or if you must go out of businessdo it soonso I can look at enhydra/weblogic/websphere again...I haven't looked at them in awhile because I have been happy with orion. It's for your own good. You obviously have some great programmers who developed this product. They should either keep working on it, or find another product to work on. Best of luck David
RE: IDE tools and Orion
Mike: So many tools, it's hard to keep track. Jbuilder, Kawa, Ultraedit, Ant, ejbdoclet, Bugseeker. I am sure I missed some. Randy -Original Message- From: Kalle Anka To: Orion-Interest Sent: 4/13/01 1:32 AM Subject: IDE tools and Orion Hi, I'm evaluating different tools for developing J2EE apps with Orion. So, I'm asking this excellent list which tools that supports Orion regarding deployment, debugging and so forth. I know that Kawa Enterprise 5.0 with SP1 do, but maybe there are other ones that work as fine as Kawa does ?? //Kalle _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Rise from the dead
From: Kemp Randy-W18971 To: 'Mike Sick '; 'Orion-Interest ' Cc: Subject: RE: ORION RISE FROM THE DEAD! - What we have here is a failure to communicate ... Sent: 4/13/01 9:22 AM Importance: Normal Mike: I do agree with all the concern about Orion's lack of response. I think that three good developers created a great product, but didn't give much thought into how to market, support, and document it, should it reach a good level of success. I suppose we should ask this question: Is there any other ways we can help the Orion team? Perhaps we can get a documentation manual effort together, like the Jboss folks are doing. I know that the folks at www.orionsupport.com and www.jollem.com are doing a great job. And yes, I agree that Orion is way ahead of the open source efforts, such as Jboss, Enhydra, Jonas, and openEJb at this point in time (not that I don't root for them, since I want them to also get to a point to give the big guys some concern). So Orion, if we as a community can help you, tell us how. Randy -Original Message- From: Mike Sick To: Orion-Interest Sent: 4/12/01 4:20 PM Subject: Re: ORION RISE FROM THE DEAD! - What we have here is a failure to communicate ... Hey Randy, I think that most people who bothered to join this list want Orion to succeed and I can see how you might have taken David's words badly. There's no doubt that there are a significant number of Orion fans that are very dedicated (me included). It's natural, however, to want resolution and orionserver's lack of progress in the last few months should raise significant concern. Add 'a failure to communicate' to the mix and concern will turn to frustration, desperation, and worse. Orion's strength as a product has allowed a small but significant developer community to emerge around it. The activity on this list, the various support sites, and the strong word of mouth growth of Orion are all signs that developers care and will support the product. But it's impossible to help if you don't know what's wrong. Mike Sick - Original Message - From: "Kemp Randy-W18971" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Orion-Interest" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 3:55 PM Subject: RE: ORION RISE FROM THE DEAD! David: Most people on this list are fans of Orion and are rooting for them to succeed. Personally, I root for the small guys, like Orion, Jboss, and Jonas, only because this technology should be available to everyone, and not just companies with deep pockets. Orion is the only commercial server under $5000 that is any good, and able to go toe to toe with BEA on several points. I wouldn't want them to go out of business, and would much rather Orion became an open source project before that happens. It has too much potential to fold. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 1:34 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: ORION RISE FROM THE DEAD! I've been watching Orion for awhile using/testing. It so close to being ideal for me and my clients and we are ready to buy. But development seems to have stopped lately. Updates to the web site are virtually non-existant (ie ORION 1.2 released on main site)...meanwhile we are up to 1.4.5 since Jan 22. I am happy with its current state. I just sucessfully tested SSL with it. I haven't done much in terms of EJB yet, but my experiences with orion still have been great. SO ORION - Please get your act together. Or if you must go out of businessdo it soonso I can look at enhydra/weblogic/websphere again...I haven't looked at them in awhile because I have been happy with orion. It's for your own good. You obviously have some great programmers who developed this product. They should either keep working on it, or find another product to work on. Best of luck David
RE: Kawa 5.0 Ent and Orion 1.4.7
I think someone on this list contacted the Kawa development team, and the answer they received was that integration with Orion would be accomplished in an up and coming Kawa service pack. -Original Message- From: Kalle Anka [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 5:06 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Kawa 5.0 Ent and Orion 1.4.7 Hi all, has anyone succesfully been able to configure Kawa 5.0 Enterprise with Orion 1.4.7 ? What I'm looking for is all the parameters needed for the EJB serve dialog box like EJB Server parameters, Packager, Deployer, Unddeployer and so forth. I've tried Allaire but no answer so far besides read on the FAQ. But there is nothing there. Thanks, Brynolf _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
RE: ORION RISE FROM THE DEAD!
David: Most people on this list are fans of Orion and are rooting for them to succeed. Personally, I root for the small guys, like Orion, Jboss, and Jonas, only because this technology should be available to everyone, and not just companies with deep pockets. Orion is the only commercial server under $5000 that is any good, and able to go toe to toe with BEA on several points. I wouldn't want them to go out of business, and would much rather Orion became an open source project before that happens. It has too much potential to fold. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 1:34 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: ORION RISE FROM THE DEAD! I've been watching Orion for awhile using/testing. It so close to being ideal for me and my clients and we are ready to buy. But development seems to have stopped lately. Updates to the web site are virtually non-existant (ie ORION 1.2 released on main site)...meanwhile we are up to 1.4.5 since Jan 22. I am happy with its current state. I just sucessfully tested SSL with it. I haven't done much in terms of EJB yet, but my experiences with orion still have been great. SO ORION - Please get your act together. Or if you must go out of businessdo it soonso I can look at enhydra/weblogic/websphere again...I haven't looked at them in awhile because I have been happy with orion. It's for your own good. You obviously have some great programmers who developed this product. They should either keep working on it, or find another product to work on. Best of luck David
RE: How to start EJB development using Orion?
In addition, check the tutorial out at www.4degreez.com/intro_part_1.html and www.4degreez.com/intro_part_2.html. -Original Message- From: SCOTT FARQUHAR [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 12:44 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: How to start EJB development using Orion? references that might be a help include: Sun's j2ee specification Servlet 2.2 spec JSP 1.1 spec I find that tutorials at www.jollem.com www.orionsupport.com are excellent. AFAIK all you need to do to inform orion of the existance of those files is to edit server.xml, to point to your root dir. eg. application name="taglib-test" path="..\applications\taglib-test" / You need application.xml in meta-inf. This is what you must inform orion of Application.xml contains references to your modules. eg. application display-nameTag Tutorial/display-name module web web-uritaglib-test-web/web-uri context-root//context-root /web /module module ejbejbdemo-ejb/ejb /module /application And the directory structure / /meta-inf/ /meta-inf/application.xml /taglib-test-web/ /taglib-test-web/web-inf/ /taglib-test-web/web-inf/web.xml /ejbdemo-ejb/ /ejbdemo-ejb/meta-inf/ /ejbdemo-ejb/meta-inf/ejb-jar.xml This is a quick overview (and may contain errors and omissions) Try the tutorials on orionsupport and jollem. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/09/01 12:50pm Hi all -- I'm new to EJB development, and am trying to start with Orion Server, but I'm having the hardest time figuring out how to even begin. I've written a bean and all the interfaces, which are all sitting in class files in the c:\java directory. I created a META-INF directory off of that, and created an ejb-jar.xml file in there. However, I can find *no* information about how to inform Orion about the existence of these files. I was trying to follow http://www.orionserver.com/tutorials/ejbtutorial.html, but it references a config/ejb.xml file which simply doesn't exist. I'm guessing it's old. Is there a simple step-by-step explanation of which files need to be modified, in what order, and what else I need to do to start doing development work? Am I better off just using a better (i.e. better supported and more completely documented) appserver? -- Chris
RE: WE NEED NEWS! We need to know Orion is alive well!
Thanks for the wonderful update, and for three fellows from Sweden, they are doing a great job of building a low-cost, application server. I do hope they can build some great partnerships with other companies to provide support contracts, and maybe a technical writer to enhance the documentation. Personally, I like to see this technology as accessible to as many people as possible. Great low cost initiatives like Orion, or open source efforts, like Jboss, make that possible, and give some good alternatives to the high priced server initiatives. -Original Message- From: Johan Fredriksson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 10:19 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: WE NEED NEWS! We need to know Orion is alive well! I met Karl Avedal yesterday at a Java forum in Stockholm. They're 3 employees as of today, and probably two more joining up shortly. He spoke of an organic expansion of Ironflare AB. The main effort is to build partner ships with other companies regarding support of the product, and to start selling support packs. The license fee for Orion will remain the same. The support pack is of course another issue. The reason for partners is that the employees of Ironflare today are technicians and like to keep doing what they do - programming on the server. Keeping the license fee low will enable developers to bundle the AS, keeping the costs low. regards Johan - Original Message - From: "Dan North" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Orion-Interest" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 11:11 AM Subject: RE: WE NEED NEWS! We need to know Orion is alive well! Nice analogy :o) And one day I'll be able to say that I had all their early albums before they became famous... Dan/tastapod At 13:02 05/04/2001 -0500, you wrote: How many people are actually working on Orion, and what is their forte? Most likely, it is probably developed and maintain by a small number (maybe under six). Sure, they are successful, and sell, but they could sell more. Think up them as an up and coming rock group. Add a good manager (CEO with a good business plan) and a promoter (a great technical writer working the documentation), and suddenly you have U2. -Original Message- From: Matthew E. Porter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 11:57 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: WE NEED NEWS! We need to know Orion is alive well! I also would like to here from someone at Ironflare/Orion concerning the status of the company. My company is currently planning to build our internal infrastructure on the Orion server. -matthew porter elephantwalker wrote: I have tried to schedule phone calls with Orion by sending emails and faxes to ironflare, nothing seems to work. We are going to deploy soon, but if I can't talk to these guys at least once, there's no way we are forking over any money. We need that "nice fuzzy feeling" that you get by talking to a warm body. Are there any paying customers on the news service that are getting prompt and reliable service for Orion, either by email or phone? Regards, Elephantwalker -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Neville Burnell Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 7:27 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: WE NEED NEWS! We need to know Orion is alive well! Its been around 4 months since Orion went on "life-support" - ie - the website went on hold ... - Karl Magnus went silent on company futures except for rare emails promising news soon - the software development slowed to a crawl [by comparison to last year's "rush"] - bug fixes slowed to a crawl - my email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] went unanswered Please Karl, Magnus, give us some news, even if its only to understand whats happened in the last 4 months -Original Message- From: Aaron Tavistock [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 5 April 2001 11:48 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: Any news from Orion yet?? Wasn't this from *WAY* back in January... I know that Orion 1.4.5 was released around January 22nd, there has been the updates to 1.4.7, *AND* there were rumors about 1.4.8. But, there really hasn't been any news about the goings on of Evermind/IronFlare. How are you guys doing? Whats the state of IronFlare? It would be nice to hear whats going on... -- Dan North VP Development - Cadrion Software Ltd - +44 (0)20 7440 9550 CONFIDENTIALITY This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to another person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium
RE: Alternative Deployment
Calvin: There are approximately 35 servers, according to the flash matrix comparison. You should not give up on Orion, but a backup plan is good. Unfortunately, there is nothing really good in the Orion price range, and if you can afford it, Web logic is probably the way to go (given they have a great market share, support, EBB 2.0 compliance, etc.). If you look at the open source initiatives, you're best to run with jboss/jetty or jboss/tomcat. According to their web site testimonials, some are running in production now. If you don't mind paying around five thousand, then Jrun is fairly good, and I haven't heard much bad press about it. Personally, I run Oracle 8I, and if you are running Oracle, the EJB technology is thrown is as a gift. Randy -Original Message- From: calvin matthews [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 11:24 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Alternative Deployment Hi, I have been monitoring the orion news group for some 5 months now and I have never seen the contributers so dejected and negative about its creators as they have of late. Don't get me wrong, I think that Orion is a fantastic application server, but the creators have seemingly fallen of the planet, the 'new' company has never appeared and confidence in their ability to support the product seems to be at an all time low. As a developer I am inclined to stick with orion for development because it's quick and easy to use. But for deployment our site needs to be up 24x7 and orion with its many support issues is starting to look like a huge risk. My questions are: a] What are people using for deployment on high profile sites (as an alternative to orion - if at all)? b] What do people consider to be the best alternative/backup application server to orion (Considering we need J2EE compliance (jsp and ejb), we have a tight budget and support is essential)? Currently our live site is operating on a more expensive application server, but Ideally we would like to move away to something as good as and as good value as Orion. Thanks in advance, Calvin
Flashline server comparison
For comparison purposes, the flash line matrix can be found at http://www.flashline.com/Components/appservermatrix.jsp. I may have counted wrong.
RE: How to start EJB development using Orion?
Another excellent general tutorial set is found at http://www.execpc.com/~gopalan/java/java_tutorial.html. -Original Message- From: SCOTT FARQUHAR [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 12:44 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: How to start EJB development using Orion? references that might be a help include: Sun's j2ee specification Servlet 2.2 spec JSP 1.1 spec I find that tutorials at www.jollem.com www.orionsupport.com are excellent. AFAIK all you need to do to inform orion of the existance of those files is to edit server.xml, to point to your root dir. eg. application name=taglib-test path=..\applications\taglib-test / You need application.xml in meta-inf. This is what you must inform orion of Application.xml contains references to your modules. eg. application display-nameTag Tutorial/display-name module web web-uritaglib-test-web/web-uri context-root//context-root /web /module module ejbejbdemo-ejb/ejb /module /application And the directory structure / /meta-inf/ /meta-inf/application.xml /taglib-test-web/ /taglib-test-web/web-inf/ /taglib-test-web/web-inf/web.xml /ejbdemo-ejb/ /ejbdemo-ejb/meta-inf/ /ejbdemo-ejb/meta-inf/ejb-jar.xml This is a quick overview (and may contain errors and omissions) Try the tutorials on orionsupport and jollem. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/09/01 12:50pm Hi all -- I'm new to EJB development, and am trying to start with Orion Server, but I'm having the hardest time figuring out how to even begin. I've written a bean and all the interfaces, which are all sitting in class files in the c:\java directory. I created a META-INF directory off of that, and created an ejb-jar.xml file in there. However, I can find *no* information about how to inform Orion about the existence of these files. I was trying to follow http://www.orionserver.com/tutorials/ejbtutorial.html, but it references a config/ejb.xml file which simply doesn't exist. I'm guessing it's old. Is there a simple step-by-step explanation of which files need to be modified, in what order, and what else I need to do to start doing development work? Am I better off just using a better (i.e. better supported and more completely documented) appserver? -- Chris
RE: Datasource confusion
The reason you are probably getting remote access denied from the Mysql server, is that the grant tables must be set up with the com address (www.something.com) and localhost. If you are using mysql, I strongly recommend picking up Mysql by Paul DuBois (see page 429, A Privileged puzzle), and perhaps the O'Rielly book. -Original Message- From: Koster, K.J. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 6:00 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: Datasource confusion Dear All, I've nailed the problem. I removed the datasource definition from the ejb-jar.xml and placed one in ~orion/config/data-sources.xml. After rebuilding the application I stopped Orion, wiped out the ~orion/application-deployments directory, and restarted Orion. I now get remote access denied errors from the database server, which is good. :-) This line jdbc:mysql://luggage/log is not complete and consider mysql local. Umm. Well, this is the precise URL that I use now. Just for the record, the database server is named "luggage" and the database is called "log". MySQL server is running on the default port, so I don't have to specify that. Thanks for the quick responses. I'm going away now to get some harder problems for you to help me with. :-) off-topic Ah, while I'm on the line: I tried finding information about JMS, but all I can find are tutorials for local examples. I want to set up a message queue between two machines. I'd like to know a little about the implementation of JMS, so that I can get an idea about performance pitfalls and such. /off-topic Kees Jan You are only young once, but you can stay immature all your life.
RE: orion with mysql?
I believe the latest release of Mysql supports transactions, but I am not sure the binaries are set with the Berkeley transaction engine. You may have to compile both, and this is a question for Mysql. -Original Message- From: Kiss Tibor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 3:31 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: orion with mysql? The cause for that could be that MySQL does not support transactions... -Original Message- From: Aaron Tavistock [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 3:28 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: orion with mysql? You only need a schema if you intend to do CMP EJBs. If you're not using EJB at all then theres no reason you couldn't use MySQL. But, while its not to hard to make a schema that complies with MySQL somewhere in between MySQL and the mm.mysql driver the EJB transaction support falls apart. My inclination is that its the mm.mysql driver itself, and the real problem is just that transaction support is not implimented in a way that complies with the EJB spec (e.g. javax.transaction doesn't occur anywhere in the source). So, while you can use MySQL with Orion you can't do EJB unless you switch over to SAPdb, PostgresSQL, or db. -Original Message- From: Geoff Marshall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 3:52 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: orion with mysql? Am using MySQL with Orion without it's own db-schema. No problems, yet. Be sure to get the MM.MySQL driver... -- -Geoff Marshall, Director of Development ... t e r r a s c o p e (415) 951-4944 54 Mint Street, Suite 110 direct (415) 625-0349 San Francisco, CA 94103 fax (415) 625-0306 ... From: Peter Peltonen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Fivetec Solutions Oy Reply-To: Orion-Interest [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 19:42:44 +0300 To: Orion-Interest [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: orion with mysql? Is it possible to use MySQL with Orion? Does it need a db-schema of it's own? We tried to use PostgreSQL but JBuilder4 didn't cope with it very well (JBuilder isn't able to show Postgre's tables). We also tried Hypersonic, but it seems that when both Orion and JBuilder communicate with the db the db gets confused. At least the changes we make in JBuilder don't get updated. Any ideas about a good open-source db that would work with both Orion and JBuilder would be appreciated! Regards, Peter
RE: orion + jbuilder4 -- sapdb?
The only product that can beat it is Oracle, but that's not an option for everyone, because of the cost. Since there are so many good, free database products, such as Interbase, Postgresql, Mysql, SapDB, etc., you really can pick and choose. For the record, all of these databases have been around in some form or another for approximately fifteen years. Even mysql, which was formed as a company only five years ago, had the database product around ten years before that. Randy -Original Message- From: Randahl Fink Isaksen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 5:12 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: orion + jbuilder4 -- sapdb? Hi Peter I have not read your original post, nor the replies. However, I just wanted to recommend using Interbase. If you want to use Borland JBuilder, it seems obvious to use Borland Interbase aswell - I am not completely up to speed with JBuilder, but I would expect that their own database product would have the best integration with their IDE. We have chosen Interbase because it is an old, high quality, reliable product from Borland. I have absolutely nothing against Postgre or MySQL, but the fact that Borland has released Interbase as a free open source product gives you free access to a database which has been through 15 years of professional development. Now, if anyone can mention a product which beats that I am all ears... In hopes I have not mentioned something, someone else already posted Randahl -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Peter Peltonen Sent: 5. april 2001 10:17 To: Orion-Interest Cc: Jukka-Pekka Naukkarinen; Ilkka Suvanto Subject: orion + jbuilder4 -- sapdb? Thank you for everyone answering my MySQL question. So, it appears that the situation is this, if I want to use Orion + JBuilder4: * PostgreSQL works fine except it isn't able to show tables in JBuilder * MySQL's EJB support doesn't work (and we need that!) * If we want to use Hypersonic we have to stop Orion while updating the db So, the question is, does SapDB work with our combination (has anyone used it with JBuilder and Orion)? I haven't really heard about it before, so how does it compare for example to MySQL and PostgreSQL? Regards, Peter
RE: WE NEED NEWS! We need to know Orion is alive well!
I have thought deeply about Orion, and I feel they are affected by the same problems as Jboss, which is lack of funding or capital. This is a wonderful product, build by some very intelligent people, with excellent advice from the user community, but there are three bottlenecks they need to address: 1. Documentation 2. Support 3. Providing hooks to other popular servers, such as Apache and IBIS. If they could get a company to believe in their product (and certainly not a competitor trying to remove them), and fund the development, then the sky is the limit. Of course, I like the nice pictures and biography you find with the core staff at such projects as Jobs, Myself, and Postgresql. Randy -Original Message- From: elephantwalker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 10:06 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: WE NEED NEWS! We need to know Orion is alive well! I have tried to schedule phone calls with Orion by sending emails and faxes to ironflare, nothing seems to work. We are going to deploy soon, but if I can't talk to these guys at least once, there's no way we are forking over any money. We need that "nice fuzzy feeling" that you get by talking to a warm body. Are there any paying customers on the news service that are getting prompt and reliable service for Orion, either by email or phone? Regards, Elephantwalker -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Neville Burnell Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 7:27 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: WE NEED NEWS! We need to know Orion is alive well! Its been around 4 months since Orion went on "life-support" - ie - the website went on hold ... - Karl Magnus went silent on company futures except for rare emails promising news soon - the software development slowed to a crawl [by comparison to last year's "rush"] - bug fixes slowed to a crawl - my email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] went unanswered Please Karl, Magnus, give us some news, even if its only to understand whats happened in the last 4 months -Original Message- From: Aaron Tavistock [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 5 April 2001 11:48 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: Any news from Orion yet?? Wasn't this from *WAY* back in January... I know that Orion 1.4.5 was released around January 22nd, there has been the updates to 1.4.7, *AND* there were rumors about 1.4.8. But, there really hasn't been any news about the goings on of Evermind/IronFlare. How are you guys doing? Whats the state of IronFlare? It would be nice to hear whats going on... -Original Message- From: Karl Avedal [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 3:15 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: Any news from Orion yet?? Hello everyone, Time is well overdue for some information from us about the release schedule and when you can see your bugs fixed. I'm sorry to say that I can't give any information now either about when the next release can be available and when the different bugs can be fixed. We have been pretty silent lately and things have moved much slower than we hoped. We understand very well that many of you are in tough positions with bugs standing in the way of using Orion for your projects. The silence from us has provoked a discussion about whether we are dead like so many other IT companies, and I just wanted to take this opportunity to say that we are not. We will provide more information and I sincerely hope that we will soon get back on track with the release schedule. More information will be sent to this list later this week. Regards, Karl Avedal
RE: WE NEED NEWS! We need to know Orion is alive well!
How many people are actually working on Orion, and what is their forte? Most likely, it is probably developed and maintain by a small number (maybe under six). Sure, they are successful, and sell, but they could sell more. Think up them as an up and coming rock group. Add a good manager (CEO with a good business plan) and a promoter (a great technical writer working the documentation), and suddenly you have U2. -Original Message- From: Matthew E. Porter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 11:57 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: WE NEED NEWS! We need to know Orion is alive well! I also would like to here from someone at Ironflare/Orion concerning the status of the company. My company is currently planning to build our internal infrastructure on the Orion server. -matthew porter elephantwalker wrote: I have tried to schedule phone calls with Orion by sending emails and faxes to ironflare, nothing seems to work. We are going to deploy soon, but if I can't talk to these guys at least once, there's no way we are forking over any money. We need that "nice fuzzy feeling" that you get by talking to a warm body. Are there any paying customers on the news service that are getting prompt and reliable service for Orion, either by email or phone? Regards, Elephantwalker -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Neville Burnell Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 7:27 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: WE NEED NEWS! We need to know Orion is alive well! Its been around 4 months since Orion went on "life-support" - ie - the website went on hold ... - Karl Magnus went silent on company futures except for rare emails promising news soon - the software development slowed to a crawl [by comparison to last year's "rush"] - bug fixes slowed to a crawl - my email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] went unanswered Please Karl, Magnus, give us some news, even if its only to understand whats happened in the last 4 months -Original Message- From: Aaron Tavistock [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 5 April 2001 11:48 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: Any news from Orion yet?? Wasn't this from *WAY* back in January... I know that Orion 1.4.5 was released around January 22nd, there has been the updates to 1.4.7, *AND* there were rumors about 1.4.8. But, there really hasn't been any news about the goings on of Evermind/IronFlare. How are you guys doing? Whats the state of IronFlare? It would be nice to hear whats going on...
RE: bugs orion support etc
There are some excellent thoughts expressed here. I too, am happy Orion is free for development, and I love the product. If you look into some of the open source DB servers, such as Mysql, Postgresql, and SapDB, all offer some sort of support contracts for a price. Usually, for development, you would spend time reading the documentation, asking questions on user lists, trial and error, etc., but management normally feels safer with a support contract, whether it is any good or not, is an entirely different matter. I think Orion is just going through some growing pains, and they are probably more successful then anticipated, and will probably cope with these problems in time. -Original Message-From: cybermaster [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 12:34 PMTo: Orion-InterestSubject: bugs orion support etc Since there have been quite a few comments about support (or the lack of it) on this mailing list, Id like to add my own 5c: At least 95% of the time I have a problem it is a typo or some issues I didnt understand correctly from the messages I see on this mailing list, I suspect it is the same for most other participants Although we always wish for more, browsing through orionserver/orionsupport/jollem yields quite a bit of info but of course it takes more time to search oneself than trying to get someone who knows on the phone or by email Support costs money I suggest that Orion or Ironflare or whatever the name of the company hires (a) support person(s) and offers a paid service; maybe they need to find out first how many developers/companies are interested and how much they are willing to dish out for it (there could be more than one level of support) I am grateful that Orion is free for development and is packed with features, but realize that when deployment time comes along, I may want to rely on an official support service. Peter Saurugger Consultant
RE: JBoss verses Orion
But wouldn't you be just a bit curious to know more about Karl, or more importantly, who the founding members of Ironflare are? I would. If you go to visit the Resin site (www.caucho.com), which is a commercial site, somewhere there is a blurb about Scott, the key architect. And I have noticed that Scott is actively answering questions in the Resin mailing list, and Rickard and Marc are actively answering questions in the Jboss mailing list, both on a regular basic. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 5:40 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: JBoss verses Orion Yes, the amount of charitable contributions made by the Orion team is of the highest importance to me, too. And whether they supported Bush or Gore in Florida. And whether their favorite color is blue - if it's not, then I HATE ORION! (And if it is, then why does their web site use red so much?) Technical issues are over-rated in technical fields, if you ask me. (On the other hand, I can think of a few VERY good reasons JBoss' performance was lower than Orion's - no explanation was made of the specific setup.) On Sat, Mar 31, 2001 at 09:37:31AM -0600, Kemp Randy-W18971 wrote: Orion is definitely ahead of Jboss technically, but Jboss has more people behind it, as far as development and debugging goes. With Jboss, you can get a profile of the founders and board members. It would be nice to have the same profile of some of the Orion founders and developers, so we can know them a bit more personally. Jboss has the potential to catch up to Orion, given the number of people involved on the project. So Orion needs to keep in the technical groove, so to speak. Remember the story of the Turtle and the rabbit race? -Original Message- From: Fink, Paul To: Orion-Interest Sent: 3/30/01 2:52 PM Subject: JBoss verses Orion I ported our Orion application to JBoss. I love JBoss for usability, documentation and support. Unfortunately our application is very performance dependent the JBoss version ran very slow. After playing with cache setting, etc. It seemed like the communications was the main bottle neck. To test this I wrote a simple session bean with one get method that returns a Long. The client looped 10,000 times calling the getter. The Orion version was 6 times faster! Other tests we ran had Orion running 4x faster. It seems that JBoss certainly is performance limited. I'm running on a 900 MHz PIII under Linux with Sun's JDK 1.3 Paul Fink -- --- Joseph B. Ottinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://epesh.com/ IT Consultant
RE: JBoss verses Orion
Thanks for the history lesson. Magnus and Karl have done one superb job for two people. -Original Message- From: Mike Sick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 10:20 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: JBoss verses Orion When I was first introduced to Orion, Magnus was the one and only developer on the job. Unless Karl gave him the boot and rewrote all the code, which seems unlikely as at least on the phone Magnus sounds like one tough Swede, Magnus wrote the foundation of Orion. From what I know, Karl came in for both technology and business development (at which he's done nicely). Someone should write A Short History Of Orionserver. Mike - Original Message - From: "Joseph B. Ottinger" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Orion-Interest" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 10:02 AM Subject: Re: JBoss verses Orion (And we all know Karl wrote most of Orion at any rate, he and Elin.)
RE: ejb-jar file location
Opinion on documentation noted and agreed with. There is some good tutorials at www.jollem.com and www.orionsupport.com, but they are operated by dedicated users of Orion, and not Orion themselves. What Orion needs is to get a good technical writer on their staff. -Original Message- From: Frank LaRosa To: Orion-Interest Sent: 3/31/01 10:17 PM Subject: Re: ejb-jar file location Thanks. I got it going by copying one of the demo applications. That's OK since I'm eventually going to build a web application, although it does seem like I should be able to deploy an individual EJB without having to set up an entire application hierarchy. Connecting to an EJB from a Java client (not a servlet, and not in a jar file) was also difficult to figure out. My opinion of Orion is that it could use some better documentation and tutorials, the ones they provide are very narrowly-focused on producing a specific type of web application, and don't address the numerous other ways that people can use EJBs. - Original Message - From: "Ashok Banerjee" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Orion-Interest" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2001 6:02 PM Subject: Re: ejb-jar file location Put the ear file path or directory path in orion/config/server.xml. This will enable orion to find your server class. Now for the client to find it use application.xml and orion-application.xml. These files are under META-INF just below client root directory. If orion server is in a remote box modify jndi.properties accordingly. Cheers, Ash Frank LaRosa wrote: Hi, I'm just getting started with Orion, but I have experience with Weblogic server. I created a simple EJB jar file which I'd like to deploy on Orion and access via an external client. I'm stuck trying to figure out where I need to place my jar file in the server's directory structure and which, if any, of the configuration files I need to update to let Orion know it's there. I tried a variety of locations, but all I am able to get is a JNDI not-found error when I try to look up the home interface. I am not even sure where I specify the JNDI name? In Weblogic this is done through a weblogic-specific deployment file. Thanks.
RE: JBoss verses Orion
Orion is definitely ahead of Jboss technically, but Jboss has more people behind it, as far as development and debugging goes. With Jboss, you can get a profile of the founders and board members. It would be nice to have the same profile of some of the Orion founders and developers, so we can know them a bit more personally. Jboss has the potential to catch up to Orion, given the number of people involved on the project. So Orion needs to keep in the technical groove, so to speak. Remember the story of the Turtle and the rabbit race? -Original Message- From: Fink, Paul To: Orion-Interest Sent: 3/30/01 2:52 PM Subject: JBoss verses Orion I ported our Orion application to JBoss. I love JBoss for usability, documentation and support. Unfortunately our application is very performance dependent the JBoss version ran very slow. After playing with cache setting, etc. It seemed like the communications was the main bottle neck. To test this I wrote a simple session bean with one get method that returns a Long. The client looped 10,000 times calling the getter. The Orion version was 6 times faster! Other tests we ran had Orion running 4x faster. It seems that JBoss certainly is performance limited. I'm running on a 900 MHz PIII under Linux with Sun's JDK 1.3 Paul Fink
RE: [JBoss-user] JBoss verses Orion
I do like playing with the jboss/jetty combination (www.jboss.org)over the jboss/tomcat combination, even though I started with the tomcat combination. I agree that the Orion JSP engine is faster, but by their own benchmarks, Resin (www.caucho.com) is close, and if you download their JSP engine, they give instructions in the doc on how to hook up with Jboss (as well as Orion, Weblogic, etc.). Resin and jboss would be another good combination. -Original Message- From: Alexander Jerusalem To: Orion-Interest Cc: ''Orion-Interest' ' Sent: 3/30/01 7:00 PM Subject: RE: [JBoss-user] JBoss verses Orion I'm not completely sure if this is the reason but there is this "one VM/classloader or multiple VMs/classloaders" distinction. I believe the important point is that Orion is an EJB *and* Servlet container whereas JBoss is only an EJB container. So if you use tomcat for example to run your Servlets all the calls to JBoss based EJBs will we marshalled by value by default whereas in Orion they will be transferred by reference. This makes a huge difference especially if the method you call for performance testing does essetially nothing. There is, however, a way to configure the JBoss/tomcat (or JBoss/Jetty) combination so that this boundary is optimized away. With JBoss comes a sample application that you can call in two ways: either optimized or non optimized and the performance difference is aprox. 4 times or so. I think that this could be the difference you are seeing in your tests. You'll have to ask the JBoss experts to find out about how to configure JBoss so that it uses this optimization. The other thing that I've heard is that tomcat is rather slow in compaison to Jetty. And I know that the Orion JSP/Servlet engine is pretty fast so you should maybe try the JBoss/Jetty combination for faster results. Regards, Alexander Jerusalem At 00:44 31.03.01, Fink, Paul wrote: Oh sorry I should have said. Jboss 2.1 binary (down loaded March 22) Orion is 1.3.8 -Original Message- From: Dan Christopherson To: 'jBoss' Cc: 'Orion-Interest' Sent: 3/30/01 3:21 PM Subject: Re: [JBoss-user] JBoss verses Orion What version of JBoss? If 2.1 (beta) the latest binary or a build from source? If source, what date? Earlier this year there were some performance problems stomped, but I haven't done any testing for performance. On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, Fink, Paul wrote: I ported our Orion application to JBoss. I love JBoss for usability, documentation and support. Unfortunately our application is very performance dependent the JBoss version ran very slow. After playing with cache setting, etc. It seemed like the communications was the main bottle neck. To test this I wrote a simple session bean with one get method that returns a Long. The client looped 10,000 times calling the getter. The Orion version was 6 times faster! Other tests we ran had Orion running 4x faster. It seems that JBoss certainly is performance limited. I'm running on a 900 MHz PIII under Linux with Sun's JDK 1.3 Paul Fink ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user -- Dan Christopherson (danch) nVisia Technical Architect (www.nvisia.com) Opinions expressed are mine and do not neccessarily reflect any position or opinion of nVISIA. --- - --- If you're a capitalist and you have the best goods and they're free, you don't have to proselytize, you just have to wait. -Eben Moglen ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
RE: Impossible getting the attention of the orion (support) team. Are they still around?
You may be right. Anyone from either the Orion staff, or someone on this list outside the Orion staff, have any additional information to share? -Original Message- From: Fink, Paul [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 5:29 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: Impossible getting the attention of the orion (support) team. Are they still around? That line worked for a few months. Now, it getting to be clear that there is no new company. -Original Message- From: Kemp Randy-W18971 [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 1:19 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: Impossible getting the attention of the orion (support) team. Are they still around? Orion had admitted having problems providing a support level needed by some companies, and that is one of the reasons for the new company, but the process is taking longer then anticipated. Hopefully, down the road, things will get back to normal, along with enhanced accounting, marketing, documentation, etc.
RE: EJB Clustering HOWTO
I think the statement "weblogic is giving us headaches" sums everything up. I like working with better engineered products, like Orion and Jboss (needs to catch up to Orion, but they have more people, so it's not impossible), which are smaller, better crafted, and easier to work with. But clustering is a key issue for handling a heavy traffic volume, and I also like to see a clear document on how Orion handles this. I know jboss will implement vertical clustering in their next major release. -Original Message- From: Dylan Parker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 4:30 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: EJB Clustering HOWTO Hello, all. I posted 1 month ago today pleading for information on EJB Clustering in Orion... otherwise my company was moving on to another app server. My original message is here: http://www.mail-archive.com/orion-interest@orionserver.com/msg10299.html Well we moved on (to WebLogic -yuch) but I've kept my tabs on the mailing list, in hope of a progression. Magnus wrote the following in reply: http://www.mail-archive.com/orion-interest@orionserver.com/msg10329.html And he mentions an EJB Clustering HOWTO -- or something along those lines... to be released in "roughly a week or so"... I have to admit that I smirked when I originally read that estimate.. because that was the same thing said for the ORIGINAL Clustering document that I (and Kevin Duffey) repeatedly requested. Weeks turned into months. But I'm curious, what is the status on this? What's the latest ETA on the new and improved clustering HOWTO? WebLogic is giving us Headaches, and we want to come home ;) Dylan Parker
RE: Orion doesnt' start as other user then root ??
You are correct, in that ports up to 1024 are restricted. I think there is some information on running Orion on Unix in www.orionsupport.com. -Original Message- From: Mike Weissman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 10:51 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: Orion doesnt' start as other user then root ?? Are you on unix box? If so, you need root to open port 80. You could probably run on another port. I think ports up to 1024 are restricted. mike Eddie wrote: I don't know why but I can only start orion as root. When I start it as user orion it complains: -- Error instantiating application at file:/home/development/sgs/: Unable to find/read deployment info for /opt/Orion/application-deployments/sgs (IO Error: /opt/Orion/application-deployments/sgs/orion-application.xml (No such file or directory)) Error initializing site Default Orion WebSite: Error creating deployment directory: defaultWebApp Orion/1.4.7 initialized -- Whereas the orion user is the owner of the Orion directory. It worked in the past, but the problems started when yesterday I discovered that someone here had erased the server.xml. I then copied a fresh version of orion in the correct location and updated the configuration. How can I solve this, as I can't find it after searching for a while now ? Eddie -- ## Michael Weissman e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Clarent Corporation 303-734-5003 Fax 303-734-4244 1221 W. Mineral Ave. Littleton, Co 80120 In the land of the dark, the ship of the sun is drawn by the grateful dead -- Egyptian Book of the Dead ##
RE: Friends!!!!
Are you talking about the friendship greeting card where everyone gets a $1000 US savings bond? If so, most of us didn't get it in the first mailing. Could you please resend it? -Original Message- From: John Miller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 5:36 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: Friends What the hell are you talking about :) -Original Message- From: srinivas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 21 March 2001 10:28 To: Orion-Interest Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Ramesh Naidu M.; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Friends hi Friends, enjoy this Friendship Greeting Card!!! CH.Srinivas Babu .
FW: [hsql-user] New Project Formed at SourceForge
For those interested in Hypersonic SQL, here is some encouragement from their user mailing lists. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 1:28 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [hsql-user] New Project Formed at SourceForge Thanks to everyone who emailed me with encouragement! It looks like there are more than a few people who want to see the project live... I have set up a new project at SourceForge for the HSQL Database Engine (Our new name). It will take a bit to get it set up, but it is at http://sourceforge.net/projects/hsqldb/. I'm working on the source code, trying to incorporate what changes I had made, and what patches people have sent me. If you've got any patches you would like to submit, email them to me directly until I get a little further along with setting up the SourceForge page. I'm going to concentrate more on the code until we have something to release, then I'll do more with the site. I would also like to see if anyone wants to volunteer as a second Admin. I don't want to see the project be without a leader again if I should lose interest, and having several people involved makes that less likely. ___ hsql-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hsql-user
Why is Hypersonic SQL still being integrated
If HypersonicSQL is a dead project, why is it still being shipped with Orion?
RE: Why is Hypersonic SQL still being integrated
InstantDB (for a Java database), which is actively developed by Enhydra (www.enhydra.org). -Original Message- From: Tim Endres [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 11:47 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: Why is Hypersonic SQL still being integrated If HypersonicSQL is a dead project, why is it still being shipped with Orion? What is the better alternative?
RE: Why is Hypersonic SQL still being integrated
Jeff: It has no shortcomings for now, but is not being actively worked on, which could introduce bugs with new Orion releases. A better alternative is instantDB by Enhydra, which is free and actively worked up (actually, both are shipped with Jboss). -Original Message- From: Jeff Schnitzer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 11:11 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: Why is Hypersonic SQL still being integrated Why not? Really, as a simple test/example database, what shortcoming does it have? Just because nobody is fixing/adding new bugs to the code at the moment doesn't mean that the current incarnation is not perfectly adequate for its task. I don't think anyone in their right mind would run a production system with hsql, but for development I've never used anything so convenient. Having the sql spit out to the hypersonic console in server-mode is great! Jeff -Original Message- From: Kemp Randy-W18971 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 6:36 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Why is Hypersonic SQL still being integrated If HypersonicSQL is a dead project, why is it still being shipped with Orion?
RE: Why is Hypersonic SQL still being integrated
Karl: Thank you. On second thought, you are probably right. But I wonder if InstandDB could be added, like they do in Jboss? If not, no big deal. Randy -Original Message- From: Karl Avedal [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 10:57 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: Why is Hypersonic SQL still being integrated Hello Randy, Many people still find it useful to have a simple db preinstalled to play around with and not having to seperately download one and set it up. And considering hsql just adds about 170k, it's not a big issue to keep it there. Regards, Karl Avedal Kemp Randy-W18971 wrote: If HypersonicSQL is a dead project, why is it still being shipped with Orion?
Hypersonic SQL - Not bad after all
After reflecting on it, it probably doesn't hurt to ship hypersonic SQL, as a prototype database, but it would be nice if someone could pick up the ball, and continue to work on it. In reality, it is a nice database. Even better would be to add InstantDB from Enhydra, which is also a free Java database, like they do in Jboss. Just my two cents worth.
Colombo Java mystery -- the case of the unrecognized Parser jar
Here is a Colombo mystery I am wrestling with, called the case of the unrecognized Parser jar. See if anyone has any insights. 1. On windows 2000, I get this message when running Resin or Tomcat (Since their lists don't know, I would see if any Orion experts could answer). (http://localhost:8080/JSP page entry) Error: 500 Internal Servlet Error: javax.servlet.ServletException: org/xml/sax/EntityResolver 2. If I look at my classpath, I have Parser.jar in it. CLASSPATH=.;d:\javaprograms\javasource;c:\jdk1.3\lib\mail.jar;c:\jdk1.3\lib\ acti vation.jar;D:\javajdbcs\jdbc1\mm.mysql.jdbc-1.2c;C:\jdk1.3\lib\tools.jar;D:\ Java ServletProducts\JbossData\addressbook;D:\JavaServletProducts\JbossData\addre ssbo ok\src\java;D:\javajarfiles\ejb.jar;D:\javajarfiles\servlet.jar;D:\javajarfi les\ server.jar\jboss-client.jar;D:\javajarfiles;D:\javajarfiles\jnp-client.jar;D :\Ja vaServletProducts\JbossData\addressbook\src\java\addressbook;D:\javajarfiles \add ressbook-client.jar;D:\javajarfiles\jndi.properties;D:\javajarfiles\Parser.j ar;C :\j2sdkee1.2.1\lib\j2ee.jar;d:\javaservletproducts\orionapp\classes 3. If I examine the Parser.jar command with jar tf Parser.jar, then this is part of my jar file: org/xml/sax/EntityResolver.class So if the Java Columbo were looking at this case, what wisdom would they add that I am missing?
The case of the misbehaving Parser.jar
Here is a Colombo mystery I am wrestling with, called the case of the unrecognized Parser jar. Please forgive me if this got sent twice, since I was unsure of the first email See if you have any insights. 1. On windows 2000, I get this message when running Resin or Tomcat (Since their lists ofter no clues, I thought I would tap the Orion experts). Error: 500 Internal Servlet Error: javax.servlet.ServletException: org/xml/sax/EntityResolver 2. If I look at my classpath, I have Parser.jar in it.(http://localhost:8080/JSP page entry) CLASSPATH=.;d:\javaprograms\javasource;c:\jdk1.3\lib\mail.jar;c:\jdk1.3\lib\acti vation.jar;D:\javajdbcs\jdbc1\mm.mysql.jdbc-1.2c;C:\jdk1.3\lib\tools.jar;D:\Java ServletProducts\JbossData\addressbook;D:\JavaServletProducts\JbossData\addressbo ok\src\java;D:\javajarfiles\ejb.jar;D:\javajarfiles\servlet.jar;D:\javajarfiles\ server.jar\jboss-client.jar;D:\javajarfiles;D:\javajarfiles\jnp-client.jar;D:\Ja vaServletProducts\JbossData\addressbook\src\java\addressbook;D:\javajarfiles\add ressbook-client.jar;D:\javajarfiles\jndi.properties;D:\javajarfiles\Parser.jar;C :\j2sdkee1.2.1\lib\j2ee.jar;d:\javaservletproducts\orionapp\classes 3. If I examine the Parser.jar command with jar tf Parser.jar, then this is part of my jar file: org/xml/sax/EntityResolver.class So if the Java Columbo were looking at this case, what wisdom would they add that I am missing?
RE: Hypersonic website / docs
I heard that the original author was not longer actively developing the product, and someone was temporary taking over the administration and maintenance. Because of the state of disruption with hypersonic, I recommend to look at Enhydra's InstandDB, if you wish a Java based RDMS, else look at databases like Mysql, postgresql, Sap4 (sp?), or Boreland's database. -Original Message- From: Julian Richardson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 8:38 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Hypersonic website / docs Hi, What's the correct url for the hypersonic website? I thought the official one was hsql.oron.ch, which I'm sure worked until a few weeks ago but doesn't now - I get a forbidden error when accessing it. Interestingly it comes back with www.hypersonicsql.com in the error page, but that site doesn't seem to exist in any form... What gives? Is anyone on this list anything to do with Hypersonic and knows what's happening with the site (it's been this way for a few days, and I've just double-checked that it's not our web proxy) Failing any kind of online help, are there docs buried within the Orion document tree for Hypersonic? I couldn't see anything at all. What I'm actually after is some kind of command-line SQL client - does Hypersonic have one? I know it's got that applet for administration (does that even come as part of the Orion install?) but I don't want to fire up a browser or mess around with appletviewer unless I have to. I do have a homebrew client but it was written against Oracle so I don't know (yet) what'll be involved in getting it to work with Hypersonic... thanks Jules
RE: Everyones problem
In the open source endeavors, you click on a hyperlink that says subscribe or unsubscribe, and it creates an email message (via you mail program), with everything you need. I haven't looked at the Orion form lately (and the instructions are probably simple), but the former method is foolproof (I'm sure someone could circumvent it). -Original Message- From: Randahl Fink Isaksen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 2:40 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Everyones problem Since so many people have so much trouble spelling the word uN-subsriPe, I was wondering if someone knows a fix to our eternal problem. For instance, does someone have software installed which could periodically send an e-mail to the list with the title "how to 'unsubscribe', 'un subscribe' or 'unsubripe' from this list" This mail could tell people about the form at www.orionserver.com. Any other suggestions? R. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 8. marts 2000 05:33 To: Orion-Interest Subject: UN SUBSCRIBE UN SUBSCRIBE ME thanx
RE: Orion Tutorial, Parts 1 and 2
That's a wonderful offer and would group all the tutorials together under one web site -- you both have created very excellent tutorials. -Original Message- From: Ernst de Haan To: Orion-Interest Sent: 3/1/01 7:30 PM Subject: Re: Orion Tutorial, Parts 1 and 2 Although I've written my own Orion tutorials for starters, I heartily welcome your contributions! If you like I can give you my XML tutorial format plus an XSLT stylesheet that will convert it to a format similar to the Orion Primer: * http://jollem.com/orion-primer/ Ofcourse I'd welcome new stylesheets as well, I already `uniquely' identified my stylesheet as `Classic' ;) I'd also be happy to host your tutorials at http://jollem.com/. In that case you can have a shell account and CVS access (to the other Orion tutorials too). If you want www.orionsupport.com to host your tutorials, they probably have their own XML format for documents posted there. Thanks again for your contribution! -- Ernst James Halloran wrote: Hello Orion community, I cleaned up the tutorial I posted here a few days ago, and I added a Part 2 that explains connecting to Oracle. The only tools you need to use are javac, jar, and deploytool. You won't need to write any XML files either, aside from adding lines the Orion config files. I hope these guides will be useful for newcomers to Orion, or even J2EE. http://www.4degreez.com/intro_part_1.html http://www.4degreez.com/intro_part_2.html I think everything will work properly, but it's possible that there is a mistake or two in there so let me know if you find any. If someone is able to follow through it and get it to work, I'd love to hear about it. In a few days, I'll see about getting it posted at orionsupport. _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
RE: Orion Tutorial, Parts 1 and 2
These tutorials are great and a wonderful aid for J2EE and Orion deployment. -Original Message- From: James Halloran To: Orion-Interest Sent: 3/1/01 12:56 PM Subject: Orion Tutorial, Parts 1 and 2 Hello Orion community, I cleaned up the tutorial I posted here a few days ago, and I added a Part 2 that explains connecting to Oracle. The only tools you need to use are javac, jar, and deploytool. You won't need to write any XML files either, aside from adding lines the Orion config files. I hope these guides will be useful for newcomers to Orion, or even J2EE. http://www.4degreez.com/intro_part_1.html http://www.4degreez.com/intro_part_2.html I think everything will work properly, but it's possible that there is a mistake or two in there so let me know if you find any. If someone is able to follow through it and get it to work, I'd love to hear about it. In a few days, I'll see about getting it posted at orionsupport. _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
RE: Good tutorial
Time to clarify my remarks. I agree with all you said, and I met for J2EE deployment purposes. Thanks for pointing out that we have apples and oranges here. -Original Message- From: Ernst de Haan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 6:25 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: Good tutorial Hey, While the Sun tools may be easier to use in the general case of deploying a J2EE application, Ant is a *generic* and extendible build tool, that can be used to perform from the simplest (copy, move, rename, delete files, compile, execute) to the most advanced (deploying complete J2EE applications, performing unit tests, translating source code to formatted HTML, checking Javadoc comments for completeness, etc.) And all of that in a platform-independant manner :) So IMHO comparing deploytool with Ant is a bit odd. -- Ernst Kemp Randy-W18971 wrote: This is a nice tutorial at www.4degreez.com and now that I am used to ant, the sun tools are much easier. And I, for one, and all for making my life easier.
RE: I switch from X to Orion because:
Just a comment onTomcat. I agree that Orion is a great product, and Tomcat has a funky protocol arrangement with Apache, but that will get better. Right now, Tomcat is integrated with Jboss, and there is talk of putting Apache into the equation. Openejb is also stated to be integrated with Apache and Tomcat. Resin is great for integration with Apache and Resin EJB will become part of that equation. If had a wish list, I like to see the potential to integrate Orion with Apache (through Orion software). -Original Message-From: Thomas Pridham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 7:41 AMTo: Orion-InterestSubject: RE: I switch from X to Orion because: I switched because: 1. Bluestone's Total-e-Server will cost you over $100,000.00. And that is an iteration based license.After so many app server iterations (oh yeah, they don't tell you what an iteration is...), it's time to buy more iterations (HP now owns this company). 2. Tomcat does not support EJB, even if it did, getting Tomcat Apache working together is sometimes a hair-pulling experience. 3. All of the horror stories from developers claiming that iPlanet is VERY buggy. 4. Because Websphere / Weblogic is too expensive for some customers. 5. Because Unify is rumored to be on unstable financial ground (even though eWave is only $595/cpu). 6. Because Orion was easy to install, easy to deploy, and easy to maintain. Granted that we DO NOT use entity beans. We only use stateless session beans. EJB is still too immature to be using entity beans, if you don't believe me, look at the majority of the posts on this mailing list. They mostly deal with entity bean problems!! That's my personal opinionplease be gentle with the entity-flame-emails :) Regards, Tom Pridham -Original Message-From: Vaskin Kissoyan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 2:05 PMTo: Orion-InterestSubject: I switch from X to Orion because: Please fill in the blank as you see fit.
RE: Intro to Orion Tutorial
Comment: Orion is very much like an open source project, in that they have an excelling mailing list, offering support. Sure, some people may think like this: Gee, I had to read the Sun specs to learn (which are really more geared to providing a blueprint to building an EJB server, and not how to use EJB), so why should I help any newcomers? It reminds me of my father: I had to walk five miles in the snow, so why do you need a car? However, I look at it this way: the more newcomers we can welcome to this J2EE world, the more competition it will give Uncle Bill. And the more Orion users it brings to the fold! Randy -Original Message- From: Julian Richardson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 4:15 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: Intro to Orion Tutorial I don't know about everyone else, but I had a real difficult time getting started with Orion (coming from WebLogic). It seemed like I was stumped at every turn. I know there are a few tutorials, but I found them difficult to follow. Plus, I would rather use standard utilities like Sun's deploytool, rather than something like Ant. That depends on your background though. I'm new to the whole EJB thing, but the only product I tried to use before Orion was a combination of Visualage / Websphere, and I didn't get on with those at all - far too confusing. The no-nonsense approach of Orion is pretty refreshing, and this mailing list seems pretty darn useful too. I really like Orion and I would hate to see people turned off from it just because they can't get it to work right away. Did you get Weblogic to work the first time you tried it? I think a certain amount of pain is to be expected at first :-) For newbies, it's really more of a problem with the complexity of J2EE than anything Orion-specific, or at least it seems that way to me. Yes, absolutely. I don't think you can do much about that - at least I can pretty much see what Orion's doing behind the scenes, unlike a lot of other products where you just have to press a button or something and it does everything for you - fine when it works, but a complete disaster when it suddenly breaks for whatever reason. http://www.4degreez.com/intro.html I'll take a look. Coming from what's pretty much an open-source background it's nice to see people taking the time to do things like this - Orion feels very much like an open-source product (wish it was ;) what with good (IMHO opinion) information on the website, small efficient footprint, mailing lists, support sites etc. cheers Jules
RE: What documentation?
GUI tools? Give the guys at Orion some time, and I am sure they will develop some, or perfect the existing ones. Same goes with the open source projects. They just need some time to mature. -Original Message- From: Gary Shea [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 7:41 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: What documentation? Today, Danut Prisacaru ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Well, I still have the same problems and I am asking the same question: why is not possible to use a GUI tool to specify all I want for deploying my application? Why do I need to go into the application-deployments folder and modify what Orion has alredy deployed. If you are stuck and still do not get go and play with Sun's RI or WebLogic and ypu will udnerstand what I mean. The same thing was bothering me, because having to modify orion's deployment descriptors was getting old. It turns out that you can make the orion web, ejb, and application deployment documents be part of your distribution. I create simplified versions that have just the stuff I care about in them, for instance: orion-application autocreate-tables="false" treat-zero-as-null="false" /orion-application By putting these into the appropriate places in your .ear or directory heirarchy, orion will find them and incorporate the information you specify in them into the final deployment descriptor that lives in the application-deployment directory. It's pretty slick. Hope that's useful. Gary Speaking about documentation and RFM please go into "orion-application.xml.html" and read this: "The deployment info for a J2EE-application. Manually created or automatically produced when auto-deploying a J2EE-application (.ear). It extends and substitutes the assembly info found in the " Where is the rest of the sentence? Sayonara! Danut
RE: New site for everyone...
How about a picture of the Orion constellation, along with the logo sung to the tune -- Sitting on the doc of the bay Looking for the doc of the day Watching my problems coming my way. Looking for the doc of the day, Wasting time. I left my Weblogic server, Headed for the Swedish bay, With J2EE to live for, I wonder what will come my way. But the product is better, And the price is really OK, Now that I got it running, It seems like Orion's here to stay. So, I'm looking for the doc of the day, ... -Original Message- From: Phillip Ross [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 6:15 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: New site for everyone... Yes! Orion jackets! That's what we need! Jimmy you're a genious! Nevermind thinkgeek.com... they'll never cater to java users because java is pure evil to the slashdot community. Anyone with any creative abilities care to step up and design an orion jacket? :) --- Jim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all I found a new site for designing your jacket.Design your jacket online and beat the cold... http://www.webjacket.com don't mistake me bye then take care Jimmy _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
Good tutorial
This is a nice tutorial at www.4degreez.com and now that I am used to ant, the sun tools are much easier. And I, for one, and all for making my life easier.
RE: Beginner...
To learn to use EJB, it is the SIG (in name) site. If you go to www.northernlight.com, search for EJB tutorial, it is in the first ten sites, and they have a whole section on tutorials. You can also go to www.theserverside.com and download Masterning Enterprise Javabeans. -Original Message- From: Luis Javier Beltran To: Orion-Interest Sent: 2/23/01 8:53 PM Subject: Re: Beginner... Thanks to all for your help, but I think I haven't found what I was looking for... I'm used to JSP and servlets, but I'm new to EJB. I just wanted to start up with a simple JSP, but reading your posts and questions, I see I'm missing something here... I'm a bit lost with this ear, war thing... So now I have to questions: 1) How can I simply test a JSP? 2) Where can I learn to use EJB?? (Urgent!! : ) ) Thanks a lot! Luis Javier
Source available and sun
I must admit -- I am still confused about the Sun agreement preventing a J2EE server from sharing the source code. I get the feeling that Orion would be open to this, if the terms with Sun would allow it. I found out recently that Resin (www.caucho.com), which has made the highly successful JSP engine, is building an EJB server, which will have the source code available. Of course, the open source EJB servers, like openejb, Jboss, and jonas, have the source code available. So why would this be good for Orion or anyone, when Orion has such brainy people building their product? If you don't think they are brainy, the download the Sun spec for EJB and try building it yourself. The answer lies in numbers. If there are 10 people, for example, building and supporting Orion, and 2000 + brainy people on this list, what has the greater potential for solving problems the quickest? Ten people or two thousand people? __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
RE: Source available and sun
I also respect it, and agree it's their decision. But the recent developments with Resin have prompted me to raise the question. End of subject, unless someone else raises the issue. -Original Message- From: Robert Krueger To: Orion-Interest Sent: 2/24/01 1:01 PM Subject: Re: Source available and sun we've had this dicussion many times before. they (Orion team) have decided to keep it closed-source and it simply is their decision (apart from the legal stuff with sun, which I personally never bought as the primary reason not to make the source available without an NDA). the arguments (debugging parallelizes well etc. etc.) that have been brought up are valid and I'm sure they know the trade-offs very well but at the end of the day it's their baby. I'm not saying I'm happy with their decision but I do respect it. regards, robert At 08:21 24.02.2001 , you wrote: I must admit -- I am still confused about the Sun agreement preventing a J2EE server from sharing the source code. I get the feeling that Orion would be open to this, if the terms with Sun would allow it. I found out recently that Resin (www.caucho.com), which has made the highly successful JSP engine, is building an EJB server, which will have the source code available. Of course, the open source EJB servers, like openejb, Jboss, and jonas, have the source code available. So why would this be good for Orion or anyone, when Orion has such brainy people building their product? If you don't think they are brainy, the download the Sun spec for EJB and try building it yourself. The answer lies in numbers. If there are 10 people, for example, building and supporting Orion, and 2000 + brainy people on this list, what has the greater potential for solving problems the quickest? Ten people or two thousand people? __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ (-) Robert Krger (-) SIGNAL 7 Gesellschaft fr Informationstechnologie mbH (-) Brder-Knau-Str. 79 - 64285 Darmstadt, (-) Tel: 06151 665401, Fax: 06151 665373 (-) [EMAIL PROTECTED], www.signal7.de
RE: EJB Clustering -- ANYONE? [Urgent!]
This is the same point I have been hammering to Orion for a while. Orion makes a wonderful product, but how do those outside of the Orion world know that? If you never heard of the state of Hawaii, and I told you a hundred years ago it's a great island to sail to, would you believe me? If I printed up some descriptive literature, and put pretty pictures in them, would you be inclined to take the trip? So what does Orion need? A good, organized manual, with topic headings, like the jboss manual provides. Detailed worked out examples, like the site www.jollem.com provides. Go to a site like Jrun or ewave, download the documentation, and review it. Don't write the doc yourself, but hire a good tech writer. If you need one, I can recommend one from my writing class that can make the Orion doc read like "Gone with the Wind". Make the documentation so simple, I could give it to my janitor and he will say -- J2EE, yee haw! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 1:30 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: EJB Clustering -- ANYONE? [Urgent!] A better description of Orion as a product! I have dedicated a lot of time of testing things that both work and does not seem to work, for example JMS and otherthings. The feature list on the frontpage is accordingly to "thin". And yes I have been reading the mailing list, but is not easy for beginners. So, some decsription, characterisation (data sheet) or whatever of the product, that tells the user or byuer what they get and what the orionserver can handle. And as pointed out before, the documentation could be better (sorry Magnus, very general). Have you seen the new documentation for JBoss. /Theis.
Running the examples
In the new Jboss manual (www.jboss.org), there is a chapter on Running the Examples from Enterprise JavaBeans, by Richard Monson-Haefel (Unix) which shows how do set them up on jboss, since the examples are free to download Perhaps something similar in Orion would be useful to newcomers.
RE: Debugging and orion
Mac I would be interested in what steps you took to get Bugseeker connected to your remote VM, as would other people on the list. Are the steps short enough to include in an Orion Interest email? Randy -Original Message- From: Mac Ferguson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 10:59 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: Debugging and orion I was in contact with Allaire's Kawa support recently and they told me that Kawa will support running/debugging Orion directly in it's IDE in an upcoming service pack, how soon it will be released is not certain, so caveat emptor. I found Kawa to be a pretty good basic IDE (I don't like lots of frills, I just want codesense and debugging), although in addition to not yet supporting Orion it was not a simple affair to add .class files to the CodeSense. If you want a decent step-thru remote debugger, check out Bugseeker (http://www.karmira.com) it was a bit tricky to get it connected to my remote JVM, but once I figured it out it was pretty good, it's *very* affordable, too. I also have recently become aware of JSwat (http://www.bluemarsh.com/java/jswat/), an open-source debugger. I am currently using the combination of Visual Slickedit for editing, Bugseeker for debugging and ANT for building, I occasionally fire up Forte (only because I have 256 MB memory and lots of time!) to do visual Swing stuff. Hope this helps, Mac Ferguson -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Julian Richardson Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 6:18 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Debugging and orion Hi, What tools / IDEs are people out there using to develop EJBs for use with Orion? At the moment we (as a project team, rather than company) are trying to standardise on an app server and IDE to use, requirements being the usual: cost speed flexibility resource usage debugging support from the IDE - I saw that someone mentioned using Kawa with Orion on the orionsupport website; has this combination been used by many people? (I'm new to the app server world, although I've been doing server-side Java work for several years now - I'm not used to environments where it's even possible to use an integrated debugger, but others on the team say it's necessary :-) Comments about the speed / flexibility / resource usage of Orion are welcome too, from the website it looks pretty slick and the documentation looks good, but time will tell... also if there's any major snags with orion in terms of things that the current version doesn't do correctly or doesn't implement... cheers Jules --
RE: starting and stopping orion
What JDK are you using? Try JDK 1.3.
-Original Message-
From: Eduardo Estefano [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 5:08 PM
To: Orion-Interest
Subject: starting and stopping orion
What happens when you stop orion with a Ctrl-C ? Is this bad? Does it not
release all the resources it's using?
I run my application fine. Then I stop it with Ctrl-C. When I start it again
and try to access an EJB, I get a classnotfound exception (the class is from
the jdbc driver - and its there, so this is another problem).
So I don't know the exact problem, but I assume it is something with the
database connections. I reference one from an ejb, but I do close it in a
finally{} block inside the method that aquires a connection.
The only way to make it work again is to touch the configuration files so
the application is re-deployed. It looks like something is not shutdown
properly.
Any ideas?
-
Eduardo Estefano
Integrated Information Systems
480.317.8549
RE: EJB Clustering -- ANYONE? [Urgent!]
The problem is that the Orion team is great at building a product, but need some lessons on marketing it. Very few people on the list -- myself included -- say anything really negative about the product. But I (and many others) have strong reservations about the documentation. Granted, if you have worked with another EJB server, or have the patience to use a trial and error approach with the existing documentation, you can get things to work. But it is not how to really market a product. Has anyone from Orion ever looked at the Jboss (www.jboss.org) or Jonas (www.evidian.com/jonas) documentation? While it does not compare to products like Oracle or Jrun, it is getting better with each new release. I am trying to implement some helpful suggestions to Orion to increase their marketing presence, and give them some leverage over other commercial class contenders, like Unify Ewave, and the open source products (Enhydra, Openejb, Jboss, Jonas). -Original Message- From: Ray Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 6:53 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: EJB Clustering -- ANYONE? [Urgent!] Dylan, I'm a new user so bear with me...Did you check http://www.orionsupport.com ? The last entry was 15 February 2001. Read the Tuesday 13th Dec "Into the Future" entry. It has some other notes and yes, I find it strange that a company is not responding about an offer of money. I've thought about going to Sybase for their products. The documentation I've seen is strange and does not conform to what I've become to believe is a normal application server (weird names for products like "Jaguar CTS" doesn't help either ; at least Oracle has 09iAS). I have not tried clustering using Orion or any other server. Ray -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Dylan Parker Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 1:33 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: EJB Clustering -- ANYONE? [Urgent!] Importance: High Hello, all. My company is about to drop Orion. The documentation issues, the dead website, the documentation issues, the absence of company responses, the documentation issues... We've contacted them asking where to send our money. Nothing back. In one last futile attempt to keep Orion afloat in my company a little longer, can anyone provide me with the following information? How does one do EJB Clustering with Orion? Has anyone made this work? Can anyone give some background on the configuration steps? If I don't hear anything... then JRun, here we come. Thanks, Dylan Parker
