Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 1:28 AM, erik jensen bicyclen...@gmail.com wrote: this thread started before i left to ride my atlantis across the cascades and elsewhere, and i return to see it continues... ...What have all the posters in this thread been doing? I'd much rather hear about that. Ride on, erik Well, since you asked, Erik, and since I started this thread (with the best of intentions, too!) I'll offer that I've been riding, though not as much or in the way I'd prefer. I'm dealing with a herniated disc in my neck and it put me off the bike for a while but now I'm okay to ride so long as I take it easy. I bought a used recumbent to try. It's actually kind of fun, and I think I'll keep it for change of pace rides even after my neck heals up! I also re-riv'd the fit of a couple of my upright bikes, raising the bars a couple of cm's above the saddle to ease strain on my shoulders and neck and that's worked out well so far. It's a gradual healing process--evidently, assuming I don't re-injure or irritate it, it will take 4-6 months (first symptoms serious enough to seek medical help were in early May though I think this has been coming on even longer) for it to heal and it will leave me slightly more prone to such injuries in the future. Thrilled I ain't--heck, I'm just now drawing a bead on 50 and I've got a lot more years and miles of riding I want to do! So, no biking holidays or long trips for me this year--easy rides around home and time to reflect on the fragility of life and health over a beer or three instead... Here's my 'bent if anyone is curious--on topic only because it let me keep riding when even my Rambouillet was temporarily uncomfortable... http://www.flickr.com/photos/40738390@N08/7421489358/in/photostream Steve -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
Recumbents are an excellent change-of-pace from uprights..I think all serious riders should try one at least once. I have a trike which I enjoy very much. Joe Bernard Vallejo, CA. On Tuesday, July 17, 2012 6:54:25 AM UTC-7, stevef wrote: On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 1:28 AM, erik jensen bicyclen...@gmail.comwrote: this thread started before i left to ride my atlantis across the cascades and elsewhere, and i return to see it continues... ...What have all the posters in this thread been doing? I'd much rather hear about that. Ride on, erik Well, since you asked, Erik, and since I started this thread (with the best of intentions, too!) I'll offer that I've been riding, though not as much or in the way I'd prefer. I'm dealing with a herniated disc in my neck and it put me off the bike for a while but now I'm okay to ride so long as I take it easy. I bought a used recumbent to try. It's actually kind of fun, and I think I'll keep it for change of pace rides even after my neck heals up! I also re-riv'd the fit of a couple of my upright bikes, raising the bars a couple of cm's above the saddle to ease strain on my shoulders and neck and that's worked out well so far. It's a gradual healing process--evidently, assuming I don't re-injure or irritate it, it will take 4-6 months (first symptoms serious enough to seek medical help were in early May though I think this has been coming on even longer) for it to heal and it will leave me slightly more prone to such injuries in the future. Thrilled I ain't--heck, I'm just now drawing a bead on 50 and I've got a lot more years and miles of riding I want to do! So, no biking holidays or long trips for me this year--easy rides around home and time to reflect on the fragility of life and health over a beer or three instead... Here's my 'bent if anyone is curious--on topic only because it let me keep riding when even my Rambouillet was temporarily uncomfortable... http://www.flickr.com/photos/40738390@N08/7421489358/in/photostream Steve -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/6s03Rzb04OYJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
Well, since you asked... I spent last night replacing my 7cm Nitto Tech stem for a 9cm Nitto lugged stem, first ride with the new setup is this morning. Yay! On Saturday, July 14, 2012 12:28:04 AM UTC-5, bicyc...@gmail.com wrote: *What have all the posters in this thread been doing? I'd much rather hear about that.* Ride on, erik -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/HeydA_7mjVsJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
Just to keep every happy, I rode my quickbeam today. Sitting at Starbucks right now and it's leaning against the window. Scott -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
Thanks Eric! I was tempted to write something similar, but you nailed it. I really dislike seeing this sort of persistent digression over such a long time, but it think it is almost unavoidable. I refer to this process as Thread Entropy. It starts with OT drift, which opens the door to all manner of free association. This group is better than most at remaining civil and on-topic, but it still happens. In a perfect world, or at least a minimally moderated forum, everyone would actually read the subject line before writing. This one has gotten away with major drift under the auspices of Grant started it by writing a book, which is a pretty thin justification for the direction it's gone. I'd recommend we put this horse back in the barn and start something else. Dave On 7/13/2012 10:28 PM, erik jensen wrote: this thread started before i left to ride my atlantis across the cascades and elsewhere, and i return to see it continues. that's funny! anyone who has read this list always knows that there are always going to be people who pop in to troll or otherwise; posts of the sort look at me, i like ALL bikes why don't you you ignoramus. But it doesn't really work that way, this is a place where people who want to talk about lugged bikes will. Like every place on the internet, people will always want to come in and yell about how that place doesn't really get it, as we may be tempted to otherwise. I subscribe, as there are also some really good ride reports that come up, but I bit my keyboarding tongue a lot about a whole variety of things. I think people like to make up stories about so and so having ideology x, y or z, because it's just easier that way. It happens on this list, it happens to all sorts of people with any sort of recognition, it's terribly easy and terribly boring--human, all too human, right? I really wish the biggest problem worth discussion was that us mean rivendell list members were dissuading significant portions of the public from riding bicycles made of carbon fiber, but I bet you can count the number of times that happens every year without trying too hard. That said, the rhetoric is really bias the other way. This isn't a debate between two equal sides in other words, and so don't construe peoples energy and love of a niche group to be conflated with koolaid or ideology as much as it is with embracing and pursuing an approach they probably have very little of in the place they live. I lived in Omaha, NE, for some time--how many rivendells are there? I know of 2, maybe? I recommend anyone engaged by a two week long argument on the internet step outside and remember we live on a fragile rock hurtling through the enormity of an infinite cosmos. It's not what you have or say, but it's what you do. What have all the posters in this thread been doing? I'd much rather hear about that. Ride on, erik On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 1:04 PM, Scott Henry ske...@gmail.com mailto:ske...@gmail.com wrote: I have no problems talking about Rivs, I do it routinely. I have a problem talking bad about carbon because someone told you not to like it. A bike is a bike. Ride them all. Don't talk anyone out of riding anything. And personally, I like obnoxious women. Scott On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 3:47 PM, Kelly tkslee...@gmail.com mailto:tkslee...@gmail.com wrote: Not sure where you got slow comfort bikes from. As for talking about rivs.. It is the Rivendell group ... So do you complain on the Ford group that they don't like Chevys. Probably.. :) Actually I have many bikes in the garage... Steel aluminum, and carbon. I've had two carbon frames break, one carbon fork, two carbon stems, one seat post break. Haven't broke the others yet I am not afraid to ride carbon , just not fond of the way it fails. I'm an obnoxious opinionated jerk.. And blame it on women in general.. What's your excuse. Kelly -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/kqbSXfogzrsJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:rbw-owners-bunch%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
I've been riding the '99 gofast which of all my three bikes probably gets the least use (since most of my riding is get-to-there riding), and I find every time that any thoughts of converting it into a more utilitarian steed vanish when I find myself climbing hills that I usually walk (72 '03 fixed) or gear down to ~30 (Fargo) to climb (and this with the 75 fixed!) and find myself pushing the higher gear as fast as lower ones against winds and inclines. My legs are sore today from the last few days' of pushing that 75 gear, uphill and against wind, harder than I had anticipated doing. On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 10:26 AM, hobie moho1...@yahoo.com wrote: Havn't read the book yet. Though I really appreciate what Rivendell is about. All of us on this list are big fans correct? Mark at Riv rides fast lightweight Rivs for racing as does Kris Kostman,don't know if he races anymore but he rides a Rodeo. I have defintly noticed a difference in my overall performance by shaving some weight off of my bike, -- Push back against the age as hard as it pushes against you. Flannery O'Connor - Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW http://resumespecialties.com/index.html - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
Well, If thats how you are measuring things, i've had two steel froks bend. One aluminum fork come unglued. I've never had a carbon fork bend, break, snap or do anything other that work 100% perfectly. I've had plenty of all three type going back to my first EMS fork in the early 90s. Guess how stupid that is. I like bikes. It just seems around here that you can either drink the koolaid or enjoy bikes, very few of you can seemingly do both. Scott On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 12:39 PM, Joe Bernard joerem...@gmail.com wrote: I make no apologies for my divisiveness about CF forks. Any product supporting the front wheel of a bicycle which snaps instead of bending is stupid. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
I like bikes. It just seems around here that you can either drink the koolaid or enjoy bikes, very few of you can seemingly do both. Scott Its like you know us...oh wait, you don't. So stop being so condescending. On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 2:49 PM, Scott Henry ske...@gmail.com wrote: Well, If thats how you are measuring things, i've had two steel froks bend. One aluminum fork come unglued. I've never had a carbon fork bend, break, snap or do anything other that work 100% perfectly. I've had plenty of all three type going back to my first EMS fork in the early 90s. Guess how stupid that is. I like bikes. It just seems around here that you can either drink the koolaid or enjoy bikes, very few of you can seemingly do both. Scott On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 12:39 PM, Joe Bernard joerem...@gmail.com wrote: I make no apologies for my divisiveness about CF forks. Any product supporting the front wheel of a bicycle which snaps instead of bending is stupid. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
Nope, I don't personally know too many people on this list. I have only met a few so personally so I have to judge the group based upon what people here post. I'll say that without a doubt, there are many bicycling fans here but ,OVERALL, the group is very focused only on one type of bike. Its just weird to me that here and on the iBob list there are many people who only consider bicycles that fit into the Riv stereotype. Now on the old serrota list (now The Paceline Forum) and even on velocipede salon they tend to appriciate all bikes. Those two groups most definately cater towards the faster crowd but they also apreciate and enjoy the Riv type of slow, heavy, comfort bicycles. As for what started my intial post, who here has had a carbon frame/fork break, fail or bend? OK, now who here has had a steel frame/fork break, bend or fail? As for me, I will keep riding all types of bicycles not just those of one small type. Scott Henry Dayton, OH come see me On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 2:54 PM, Peter Morgano uscpeter11...@gmail.comwrote: I like bikes. It just seems around here that you can either drink the koolaid or enjoy bikes, very few of you can seemingly do both. Scott Its like you know us...oh wait, you don't. So stop being so condescending. On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 2:49 PM, Scott Henry ske...@gmail.com wrote: Well, If thats how you are measuring things, i've had two steel froks bend. One aluminum fork come unglued. I've never had a carbon fork bend, break, snap or do anything other that work 100% perfectly. I've had plenty of all three type going back to my first EMS fork in the early 90s. Guess how stupid that is. I like bikes. It just seems around here that you can either drink the koolaid or enjoy bikes, very few of you can seemingly do both. Scott On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 12:39 PM, Joe Bernard joerem...@gmail.comwrote: I make no apologies for my divisiveness about CF forks. Any product supporting the front wheel of a bicycle which snaps instead of bending is stupid. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
Well I dont want to call this a troll post like they would at BikeForums but come on this is the Rivendell owners bunch so I would say they are focused on one type of bike, mainly Rivendells. While most of us own other bikes coming to this list and expecting people to rave about thier CAAD10 would be pretty silly. Oh and my bike is neither slow nor heavy, I am slow and heavy, but it sure is comfortable. On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 3:33 PM, Scott Henry ske...@gmail.com wrote: Nope, I don't personally know too many people on this list. I have only met a few so personally so I have to judge the group based upon what people here post. I'll say that without a doubt, there are many bicycling fans here but ,OVERALL, the group is very focused only on one type of bike. Its just weird to me that here and on the iBob list there are many people who only consider bicycles that fit into the Riv stereotype. Now on the old serrota list (now The Paceline Forum) and even on velocipede salon they tend to appriciate all bikes. Those two groups most definately cater towards the faster crowd but they also apreciate and enjoy the Riv type of slow, heavy, comfort bicycles. As for what started my intial post, who here has had a carbon frame/fork break, fail or bend? OK, now who here has had a steel frame/fork break, bend or fail? As for me, I will keep riding all types of bicycles not just those of one small type. Scott Henry Dayton, OH come see me On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 2:54 PM, Peter Morgano uscpeter11...@gmail.comwrote: I like bikes. It just seems around here that you can either drink the koolaid or enjoy bikes, very few of you can seemingly do both. Scott Its like you know us...oh wait, you don't. So stop being so condescending. On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 2:49 PM, Scott Henry ske...@gmail.com wrote: Well, If thats how you are measuring things, i've had two steel froks bend. One aluminum fork come unglued. I've never had a carbon fork bend, break, snap or do anything other that work 100% perfectly. I've had plenty of all three type going back to my first EMS fork in the early 90s. Guess how stupid that is. I like bikes. It just seems around here that you can either drink the koolaid or enjoy bikes, very few of you can seemingly do both. Scott On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 12:39 PM, Joe Bernard joerem...@gmail.comwrote: I make no apologies for my divisiveness about CF forks. Any product supporting the front wheel of a bicycle which snaps instead of bending is stupid. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
Not sure where you got slow comfort bikes from. As for talking about rivs.. It is the Rivendell group ... So do you complain on the Ford group that they don't like Chevys. Probably.. :) Actually I have many bikes in the garage... Steel aluminum, and carbon. I've had two carbon frames break, one carbon fork, two carbon stems, one seat post break. Haven't broke the others yet I am not afraid to ride carbon , just not fond of the way it fails. I'm an obnoxious opinionated jerk.. And blame it on women in general.. What's your excuse. Kelly -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/kqbSXfogzrsJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
Absolutely this is a Rivendell list. And I own a Quickbeam and I bought the book (and give it a moderate review). But I also have a Cannondale CAAD 6 too. And a Trek OCLV and a Kogswell P and a Schwinn unicycle and tandem and many more, my favorite is my Handsome Speedy. They are all bikes and and I enjoy riding them all. Not one of them is bad, even though quite a few aren't steel. None of them have even exploded underneath me will I was riding. Not even the race bikes which have been crashed numerous times. We are forgetting the title of the book. Just RideHe didnt title it Just Ride : only if your bike looks like one that I sell Scott On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Peter Morgano uscpeter11...@gmail.comwrote: Well I dont want to call this a troll post like they would at BikeForums but come on this is the Rivendell owners bunch so I would say they are focused on one type of bike, mainly Rivendells. While most of us own other bikes coming to this list and expecting people to rave about thier CAAD10 would be pretty silly. Oh and my bike is neither slow nor heavy, I am slow and heavy, but it sure is comfortable. On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 3:33 PM, Scott Henry ske...@gmail.com wrote: Nope, I don't personally know too many people on this list. I have only met a few so personally so I have to judge the group based upon what people here post. I'll say that without a doubt, there are many bicycling fans here but ,OVERALL, the group is very focused only on one type of bike. Its just weird to me that here and on the iBob list there are many people who only consider bicycles that fit into the Riv stereotype. Now on the old serrota list (now The Paceline Forum) and even on velocipede salon they tend to appriciate all bikes. Those two groups most definately cater towards the faster crowd but they also apreciate and enjoy the Riv type of slow, heavy, comfort bicycles. As for what started my intial post, who here has had a carbon frame/fork break, fail or bend? OK, now who here has had a steel frame/fork break, bend or fail? As for me, I will keep riding all types of bicycles not just those of one small type. Scott Henry Dayton, OH come see me On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 2:54 PM, Peter Morgano uscpeter11...@gmail.comwrote: I like bikes. It just seems around here that you can either drink the koolaid or enjoy bikes, very few of you can seemingly do both. Scott Its like you know us...oh wait, you don't. So stop being so condescending. On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 2:49 PM, Scott Henry ske...@gmail.com wrote: Well, If thats how you are measuring things, i've had two steel froks bend. One aluminum fork come unglued. I've never had a carbon fork bend, break, snap or do anything other that work 100% perfectly. I've had plenty of all three type going back to my first EMS fork in the early 90s. Guess how stupid that is. I like bikes. It just seems around here that you can either drink the koolaid or enjoy bikes, very few of you can seemingly do both. Scott On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 12:39 PM, Joe Bernard joerem...@gmail.comwrote: I make no apologies for my divisiveness about CF forks. Any product supporting the front wheel of a bicycle which snaps instead of bending is stupid. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com . To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group,
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
I have no problems talking about Rivs, I do it routinely. I have a problem talking bad about carbon because someone told you not to like it. A bike is a bike. Ride them all. Don't talk anyone out of riding anything. And personally, I like obnoxious women. Scott On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 3:47 PM, Kelly tkslee...@gmail.com wrote: Not sure where you got slow comfort bikes from. As for talking about rivs.. It is the Rivendell group ... So do you complain on the Ford group that they don't like Chevys. Probably.. :) Actually I have many bikes in the garage... Steel aluminum, and carbon. I've had two carbon frames break, one carbon fork, two carbon stems, one seat post break. Haven't broke the others yet I am not afraid to ride carbon , just not fond of the way it fails. I'm an obnoxious opinionated jerk.. And blame it on women in general.. What's your excuse. Kelly -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/kqbSXfogzrsJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
Uh, I have a problem with the CF fork because it's a shock-absorbing device attached to the front wheel that snaps if something goes wrong with it. It seems like a ridiculous application of the material to me. I'm less concerned about CF for the frame..the loads are spread out more, and a broken tube somewhere on it is less likely to put you on the ground. It's that long, thin lever on the front that worries me, and I'm more than entitled to worry about it. As for types of bikes, I have an aluminum modern go-fast, an aluminum MTB, and several steel Bridgestones in various stages of Rivendell-ism. They all have steel forks. You wanna hear about my Motobecane disk-brake road bike? Meet me at The Paceline. Talking about it here is off-topic. On Friday, July 13, 2012 1:04:02 PM UTC-7, Skenry wrote: I have no problems talking about Rivs, I do it routinely. I have a problem talking bad about carbon because someone told you not to like it. A bike is a bike. Ride them all. Don't talk anyone out of riding anything. And personally, I like obnoxious women. Scott On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 3:47 PM, Kelly tkslee...@gmail.com wrote: Not sure where you got slow comfort bikes from. As for talking about rivs.. It is the Rivendell group ... So do you complain on the Ford group that they don't like Chevys. Probably.. :) Actually I have many bikes in the garage... Steel aluminum, and carbon. I've had two carbon frames break, one carbon fork, two carbon stems, one seat post break. Haven't broke the others yet I am not afraid to ride carbon , just not fond of the way it fails. I'm an obnoxious opinionated jerk.. And blame it on women in general.. What's your excuse. Kelly -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/kqbSXfogzrsJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. On Friday, July 13, 2012 1:04:02 PM UTC-7, Skenry wrote: I have no problems talking about Rivs, I do it routinely. I have a problem talking bad about carbon because someone told you not to like it. A bike is a bike. Ride them all. Don't talk anyone out of riding anything. And personally, I like obnoxious women. Scott On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 3:47 PM, Kelly tkslee...@gmail.com wrote: Not sure where you got slow comfort bikes from. As for talking about rivs.. It is the Rivendell group ... So do you complain on the Ford group that they don't like Chevys. Probably.. :) Actually I have many bikes in the garage... Steel aluminum, and carbon. I've had two carbon frames break, one carbon fork, two carbon stems, one seat post break. Haven't broke the others yet I am not afraid to ride carbon , just not fond of the way it fails. I'm an obnoxious opinionated jerk.. And blame it on women in general.. What's your excuse. Kelly -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/kqbSXfogzrsJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/gBAJbeN77f4J. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
Well we are all adults here and people can talk all the shit they want about anything, CF, ALU, steel and yes even Rivendells and I doubt anyone needs a shepherd so they don't start believing the wrong thing. Unless you make or sell CF rigs not sure why this is getting so personal. I doubt anyone is going to convert anyone else over to thier camp here anyway. On Jul 13, 2012 4:04 PM, Scott Henry ske...@gmail.com wrote: I have no problems talking about Rivs, I do it routinely. I have a problem talking bad about carbon because someone told you not to like it. A bike is a bike. Ride them all. Don't talk anyone out of riding anything. And personally, I like obnoxious women. Scott On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 3:47 PM, Kelly tkslee...@gmail.com wrote: Not sure where you got slow comfort bikes from. As for talking about rivs.. It is the Rivendell group ... So do you complain on the Ford group that they don't like Chevys. Probably.. :) Actually I have many bikes in the garage... Steel aluminum, and carbon. I've had two carbon frames break, one carbon fork, two carbon stems, one seat post break. Haven't broke the others yet I am not afraid to ride carbon , just not fond of the way it fails. I'm an obnoxious opinionated jerk.. And blame it on women in general.. What's your excuse. Kelly -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/kqbSXfogzrsJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
I have a friend who had a carbon frame break (madone right at the bottom bracket, bike was unrideable, he was bummed), have witnessed a carbon fork break at speed (dude went away in an ambulance; frame and fork was toast. A stick in the road came up and took out both fork arms. The accident happened really fast and the rider had no time to stop the bike) and I have had a steel fork bend when I was trying to hop over a curb but didn't get it up enough. I bent the fork back with my hands, rode the bike home that day and replaced the fork; Jamis Aurora. I have also had dented steel tubes, broken tubes, bent chainstays and broken crankarms. The only thing that put me on the ground from breaking was the crankarm, and that crash hurt and I had to get someone to pick me up. The other stuff happened over time while riding, hitting trees while singletracking, crashing the bike and realizing the bike broke ect... I can't remember a time where the bike did not get me home after that damage though. On Friday, July 13, 2012 2:33:15 PM UTC-5, Skenry wrote: Nope, I don't personally know too many people on this list. I have only met a few so personally so I have to judge the group based upon what people here post. I'll say that without a doubt, there are many bicycling fans here but ,OVERALL, the group is very focused only on one type of bike. Its just weird to me that here and on the iBob list there are many people who only consider bicycles that fit into the Riv stereotype. Now on the old serrota list (now The Paceline Forum) and even on velocipede salon they tend to appriciate all bikes. Those two groups most definately cater towards the faster crowd but they also apreciate and enjoy the Riv type of slow, heavy, comfort bicycles. As for what started my intial post, who here has had a carbon frame/fork break, fail or bend? OK, now who here has had a steel frame/fork break, bend or fail? As for me, I will keep riding all types of bicycles not just those of one small type. Scott Henry Dayton, OH come see me On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 2:54 PM, Peter Morgano uscpeter11...@gmail.comwrote: I like bikes. It just seems around here that you can either drink the koolaid or enjoy bikes, very few of you can seemingly do both. Scott Its like you know us...oh wait, you don't. So stop being so condescending. On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 2:49 PM, Scott Henry ske...@gmail.com wrote: Well, If thats how you are measuring things, i've had two steel froks bend. One aluminum fork come unglued. I've never had a carbon fork bend, break, snap or do anything other that work 100% perfectly. I've had plenty of all three type going back to my first EMS fork in the early 90s. Guess how stupid that is. I like bikes. It just seems around here that you can either drink the koolaid or enjoy bikes, very few of you can seemingly do both. Scott On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 12:39 PM, Joe Bernard joerem...@gmail.comwrote: I make no apologies for my divisiveness about CF forks. Any product supporting the front wheel of a bicycle which snaps instead of bending is stupid. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/vDkulQZlZrwJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
Scott: Here's some solidarity for you. I have owned four Rivs (3 customs, one Sam Hill) and still have the two later customs, both fixed gears, one with fat (32 mm) tires, dynolight and rack, t'other a stripper gofast (just did a brief hilly ride and it is FUN!). I do agree with the other poster that, after all, this is a Riv list and so a sort of focus is to be expected; but OTOH, there is more to Rivs than high bars, shellac and fancy luggage: for me, the essence of Rivendellianishness is not lugs, fancy paint or pretty luggage, but **fit** and **handling** -- every time (and I've bleated about this for, what, 15 years now -- I get back onto a Riv after riding some other bike that I've decided is very, very nice, I re-experience fit/handling Nirvana. All the better, sez I, if one of those Rivs is a low (ish -- I'm 57) bar'd, skinny tired, stripped down gofast that, dammit, climbs like nothing else! Every group focused on a more or less common goal, theory or value tends to become somewhat insular and exclusive and to corral the wagons against outside opinions. That is true of this list; OTOH, this list is, IMO, pretty mellow overall despite the occasional snark. Patrick my next quasi Rivendellianish bike is to be a carbon fibre ss 29er with 500 gram crabon fiber fork Moore -- if only I had the money! On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 1:33 PM, Scott Henry ske...@gmail.com wrote: Nope, I don't personally know too many people on this list. I have only met a few so personally so I have to judge the group based upon what people here post. I'll say that without a doubt, there are many bicycling fans here but ,OVERALL, the group is very focused only on one type of bike. Its just weird to me that here and on the iBob list there are many people who only consider bicycles that fit into the Riv stereotype. Now on the old serrota list (now The Paceline Forum) and even on velocipede salon they tend to appriciate all bikes. Those two groups most definately cater towards the faster crowd but they also apreciate and enjoy the Riv type of slow, heavy, comfort bicycles. As for what started my intial post, who here has had a carbon frame/fork break, fail or bend? OK, now who here has had a steel frame/fork break, bend or fail? As for me, I will keep riding all types of bicycles not just those of one small type. Scott Henry Dayton, OH come see me On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 2:54 PM, Peter Morgano uscpeter11...@gmail.com wrote: I like bikes. It just seems around here that you can either drink the koolaid or enjoy bikes, very few of you can seemingly do both. Scott Its like you know us...oh wait, you don't. So stop being so condescending. On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 2:49 PM, Scott Henry ske...@gmail.com wrote: Well, If thats how you are measuring things, i've had two steel froks bend. One aluminum fork come unglued. I've never had a carbon fork bend, break, snap or do anything other that work 100% perfectly. I've had plenty of all three type going back to my first EMS fork in the early 90s. Guess how stupid that is. I like bikes. It just seems around here that you can either drink the koolaid or enjoy bikes, very few of you can seemingly do both. Scott On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 12:39 PM, Joe Bernard joerem...@gmail.com wrote: I make no apologies for my divisiveness about CF forks. Any product supporting the front wheel of a bicycle which snaps instead of bending is stupid. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- Push back against the age as hard as it pushes against you. Flannery O'Connor - Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW http://resumespecialties.com/index.html - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
Forgot to add that I *have* broken a steel fork but it let me down gently, I have never ridden crabon fibre. On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 3:49 PM, PATRICK MOORE bertin...@gmail.com wrote: Scott: Here's some solidarity for you. I have owned four Rivs (3 customs, one Sam Hill) and still have the two later customs, both fixed gears, one with fat (32 mm) tires, dynolight and rack, t'other a stripper gofast (just did a brief hilly ride and it is FUN!). I do agree with the other poster that, after all, this is a Riv list and so a sort of focus is to be expected; but OTOH, there is more to Rivs than high bars, shellac and fancy luggage: for me, the essence of Rivendellianishness is not lugs, fancy paint or pretty luggage, but **fit** and **handling** -- every time (and I've bleated about this for, what, 15 years now -- I get back onto a Riv after riding some other bike that I've decided is very, very nice, I re-experience fit/handling Nirvana. All the better, sez I, if one of those Rivs is a low (ish -- I'm 57) bar'd, skinny tired, stripped down gofast that, dammit, climbs like nothing else! Every group focused on a more or less common goal, theory or value tends to become somewhat insular and exclusive and to corral the wagons against outside opinions. That is true of this list; OTOH, this list is, IMO, pretty mellow overall despite the occasional snark. Patrick my next quasi Rivendellianish bike is to be a carbon fibre ss 29er with 500 gram crabon fiber fork Moore -- if only I had the money! On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 1:33 PM, Scott Henry ske...@gmail.com wrote: Nope, I don't personally know too many people on this list. I have only met a few so personally so I have to judge the group based upon what people here post. I'll say that without a doubt, there are many bicycling fans here but ,OVERALL, the group is very focused only on one type of bike. Its just weird to me that here and on the iBob list there are many people who only consider bicycles that fit into the Riv stereotype. Now on the old serrota list (now The Paceline Forum) and even on velocipede salon they tend to appriciate all bikes. Those two groups most definately cater towards the faster crowd but they also apreciate and enjoy the Riv type of slow, heavy, comfort bicycles. As for what started my intial post, who here has had a carbon frame/fork break, fail or bend? OK, now who here has had a steel frame/fork break, bend or fail? As for me, I will keep riding all types of bicycles not just those of one small type. Scott Henry Dayton, OH come see me On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 2:54 PM, Peter Morgano uscpeter11...@gmail.com wrote: I like bikes. It just seems around here that you can either drink the koolaid or enjoy bikes, very few of you can seemingly do both. Scott Its like you know us...oh wait, you don't. So stop being so condescending. On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 2:49 PM, Scott Henry ske...@gmail.com wrote: Well, If thats how you are measuring things, i've had two steel froks bend. One aluminum fork come unglued. I've never had a carbon fork bend, break, snap or do anything other that work 100% perfectly. I've had plenty of all three type going back to my first EMS fork in the early 90s. Guess how stupid that is. I like bikes. It just seems around here that you can either drink the koolaid or enjoy bikes, very few of you can seemingly do both. Scott On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 12:39 PM, Joe Bernard joerem...@gmail.com wrote: I make no apologies for my divisiveness about CF forks. Any product supporting the front wheel of a bicycle which snaps instead of bending is stupid. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- Push back against the age as hard as it pushes against you. Flannery O'Connor - Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
I have friend that had her carbon fork collapse on a long steady descent. She augered her face into the pavement. Her hands were completely uninjured, that's how fast it happened. She has partial use of her hands now but not enough to roll her wheel chair. Small probability, huge consequences. Everyone makes their choices lives with the decisions. I will never ride a carbon fork. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/CtIW5meM8ycJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
Every type of part or frame that can be used to make or accessorize a bicycle can break. As my mechanic Mongo says, bikes are a wear item. Even things made of lugged steel break more often than some here might believe. I have never been impressed by CF, mostly because it doesn't fit my personality on various levels. But I don't believe that riding a bike with a carbon fork is statistically more stupid/dangerous than riding a bike in general. If I crash hard or get hit by a car, the material that comprises my frame and fork is likely the least of my concerns. Of all the risk of riding a bike, having my fork snap off is pretty far down the list. Ride whatever type of bike you like, and be sensible about basic safety, and you will probably be ok. The types of bikes I like are steel and have fat tires and lots of threaded holes in various handy locations. On Friday, July 13, 2012 4:51:46 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote: Forgot to add that I *have* broken a steel fork but it let me down gently, I have never ridden crabon fibre. On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 3:49 PM, PATRICK MOORE bertin...@gmail.com wrote: Scott: Here's some solidarity for you. I have owned four Rivs (3 customs, one Sam Hill) and still have the two later customs, both fixed gears, one with fat (32 mm) tires, dynolight and rack, t'other a stripper gofast (just did a brief hilly ride and it is FUN!). I do agree with the other poster that, after all, this is a Riv list and so a sort of focus is to be expected; but OTOH, there is more to Rivs than high bars, shellac and fancy luggage: for me, the essence of Rivendellianishness is not lugs, fancy paint or pretty luggage, but **fit** and **handling** -- every time (and I've bleated about this for, what, 15 years now -- I get back onto a Riv after riding some other bike that I've decided is very, very nice, I re-experience fit/handling Nirvana. All the better, sez I, if one of those Rivs is a low (ish -- I'm 57) bar'd, skinny tired, stripped down gofast that, dammit, climbs like nothing else! Every group focused on a more or less common goal, theory or value tends to become somewhat insular and exclusive and to corral the wagons against outside opinions. That is true of this list; OTOH, this list is, IMO, pretty mellow overall despite the occasional snark. Patrick my next quasi Rivendellianish bike is to be a carbon fibre ss 29er with 500 gram crabon fiber fork Moore -- if only I had the money! On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 1:33 PM, Scott Henry ske...@gmail.com wrote: Nope, I don't personally know too many people on this list. I have only met a few so personally so I have to judge the group based upon what people here post. I'll say that without a doubt, there are many bicycling fans here but ,OVERALL, the group is very focused only on one type of bike. Its just weird to me that here and on the iBob list there are many people who only consider bicycles that fit into the Riv stereotype. Now on the old serrota list (now The Paceline Forum) and even on velocipede salon they tend to appriciate all bikes. Those two groups most definately cater towards the faster crowd but they also apreciate and enjoy the Riv type of slow, heavy, comfort bicycles. As for what started my intial post, who here has had a carbon frame/fork break, fail or bend? OK, now who here has had a steel frame/fork break, bend or fail? As for me, I will keep riding all types of bicycles not just those of one small type. Scott Henry Dayton, OH come see me On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 2:54 PM, Peter Morgano uscpeter11...@gmail.com wrote: I like bikes. It just seems around here that you can either drink the koolaid or enjoy bikes, very few of you can seemingly do both. Scott Its like you know us...oh wait, you don't. So stop being so condescending. On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 2:49 PM, Scott Henry ske...@gmail.com wrote: Well, If thats how you are measuring things, i've had two steel froks bend. One aluminum fork come unglued. I've never had a carbon fork bend, break, snap or do anything other that work 100% perfectly. I've had plenty of all three type going back to my first EMS fork in the early 90s. Guess how stupid that is. I like bikes. It just seems around here that you can either drink the koolaid or enjoy bikes, very few of you can seemingly do both. Scott On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 12:39 PM, Joe Bernard joerem...@gmail.com wrote: I make no apologies for my divisiveness about CF forks. Any product supporting the front wheel of a bicycle which snaps instead of bending is stupid. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
this thread started before i left to ride my atlantis across the cascades and elsewhere, and i return to see it continues. that's funny! anyone who has read this list always knows that there are always going to be people who pop in to troll or otherwise; posts of the sort look at me, i like ALL bikes why don't you you ignoramus. But it doesn't really work that way, this is a place where people who want to talk about lugged bikes will. Like every place on the internet, people will always want to come in and yell about how that place doesn't really get it, as we may be tempted to otherwise. I subscribe, as there are also some really good ride reports that come up, but I bit my keyboarding tongue a lot about a whole variety of things. I think people like to make up stories about so and so having ideology x, y or z, because it's just easier that way. It happens on this list, it happens to all sorts of people with any sort of recognition, it's terribly easy and terribly boring--human, all too human, right? I really wish the biggest problem worth discussion was that us mean rivendell list members were dissuading significant portions of the public from riding bicycles made of carbon fiber, but I bet you can count the number of times that happens every year without trying too hard. That said, the rhetoric is really bias the other way. This isn't a debate between two equal sides in other words, and so don't construe peoples energy and love of a niche group to be conflated with koolaid or ideology as much as it is with embracing and pursuing an approach they probably have very little of in the place they live. I lived in Omaha, NE, for some time--how many rivendells are there? I know of 2, maybe? I recommend anyone engaged by a two week long argument on the internet step outside and remember we live on a fragile rock hurtling through the enormity of an infinite cosmos. It's not what you have or say, but it's what you do. What have all the posters in this thread been doing? I'd much rather hear about that. Ride on, erik On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 1:04 PM, Scott Henry ske...@gmail.com wrote: I have no problems talking about Rivs, I do it routinely. I have a problem talking bad about carbon because someone told you not to like it. A bike is a bike. Ride them all. Don't talk anyone out of riding anything. And personally, I like obnoxious women. Scott On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 3:47 PM, Kelly tkslee...@gmail.com wrote: Not sure where you got slow comfort bikes from. As for talking about rivs.. It is the Rivendell group ... So do you complain on the Ford group that they don't like Chevys. Probably.. :) Actually I have many bikes in the garage... Steel aluminum, and carbon. I've had two carbon frames break, one carbon fork, two carbon stems, one seat post break. Haven't broke the others yet I am not afraid to ride carbon , just not fond of the way it fails. I'm an obnoxious opinionated jerk.. And blame it on women in general.. What's your excuse. Kelly -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/kqbSXfogzrsJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- oakland, ca bikenoir.blogspot.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
Agreed, shame it is an Ozone alert and pea soup humidity in NYC which made riding tonight crappy, wasnt worth taking pics since they would have been hazed over anyway. I remembered Grant's advice to not beat yourself up about not riding as much as you might want and headed home halfway through to sit inside and not sweat everywhere, haha. Here is hoping for some rain to break this humidity! On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 1:28 AM, erik jensen bicyclen...@gmail.com wrote: this thread started before i left to ride my atlantis across the cascades and elsewhere, and i return to see it continues. that's funny! anyone who has read this list always knows that there are always going to be people who pop in to troll or otherwise; posts of the sort look at me, i like ALL bikes why don't you you ignoramus. But it doesn't really work that way, this is a place where people who want to talk about lugged bikes will. Like every place on the internet, people will always want to come in and yell about how that place doesn't really get it, as we may be tempted to otherwise. I subscribe, as there are also some really good ride reports that come up, but I bit my keyboarding tongue a lot about a whole variety of things. I think people like to make up stories about so and so having ideology x, y or z, because it's just easier that way. It happens on this list, it happens to all sorts of people with any sort of recognition, it's terribly easy and terribly boring--human, all too human, right? I really wish the biggest problem worth discussion was that us mean rivendell list members were dissuading significant portions of the public from riding bicycles made of carbon fiber, but I bet you can count the number of times that happens every year without trying too hard. That said, the rhetoric is really bias the other way. This isn't a debate between two equal sides in other words, and so don't construe peoples energy and love of a niche group to be conflated with koolaid or ideology as much as it is with embracing and pursuing an approach they probably have very little of in the place they live. I lived in Omaha, NE, for some time--how many rivendells are there? I know of 2, maybe? I recommend anyone engaged by a two week long argument on the internet step outside and remember we live on a fragile rock hurtling through the enormity of an infinite cosmos. It's not what you have or say, but it's what you do. What have all the posters in this thread been doing? I'd much rather hear about that. Ride on, erik On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 1:04 PM, Scott Henry ske...@gmail.com wrote: I have no problems talking about Rivs, I do it routinely. I have a problem talking bad about carbon because someone told you not to like it. A bike is a bike. Ride them all. Don't talk anyone out of riding anything. And personally, I like obnoxious women. Scott On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 3:47 PM, Kelly tkslee...@gmail.com wrote: Not sure where you got slow comfort bikes from. As for talking about rivs.. It is the Rivendell group ... So do you complain on the Ford group that they don't like Chevys. Probably.. :) Actually I have many bikes in the garage... Steel aluminum, and carbon. I've had two carbon frames break, one carbon fork, two carbon stems, one seat post break. Haven't broke the others yet I am not afraid to ride carbon , just not fond of the way it fails. I'm an obnoxious opinionated jerk.. And blame it on women in general.. What's your excuse. Kelly -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/kqbSXfogzrsJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- oakland, ca bikenoir.blogspot.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
i'm one of the lucky ones out west i think, but i gotta say it was pure suffering making it across the valley between the cascades and the ocean range in oregon. s hot, and even then just 95 degrees or so. i put my head down and got through there in one day rather than stick around for multiple days of that sickly too-hot feeling. i was wearing wool leggings because i had gotten sunburned when i feel asleep on the rim of crater lake the day before and wanted to cover up, one suffering for another! e On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 10:32 PM, Peter Morgano uscpeter11...@gmail.comwrote: Agreed, shame it is an Ozone alert and pea soup humidity in NYC which made riding tonight crappy, wasnt worth taking pics since they would have been hazed over anyway. I remembered Grant's advice to not beat yourself up about not riding as much as you might want and headed home halfway through to sit inside and not sweat everywhere, haha. Here is hoping for some rain to break this humidity! On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 1:28 AM, erik jensen bicyclen...@gmail.comwrote: this thread started before i left to ride my atlantis across the cascades and elsewhere, and i return to see it continues. that's funny! anyone who has read this list always knows that there are always going to be people who pop in to troll or otherwise; posts of the sort look at me, i like ALL bikes why don't you you ignoramus. But it doesn't really work that way, this is a place where people who want to talk about lugged bikes will. Like every place on the internet, people will always want to come in and yell about how that place doesn't really get it, as we may be tempted to otherwise. I subscribe, as there are also some really good ride reports that come up, but I bit my keyboarding tongue a lot about a whole variety of things. I think people like to make up stories about so and so having ideology x, y or z, because it's just easier that way. It happens on this list, it happens to all sorts of people with any sort of recognition, it's terribly easy and terribly boring--human, all too human, right? I really wish the biggest problem worth discussion was that us mean rivendell list members were dissuading significant portions of the public from riding bicycles made of carbon fiber, but I bet you can count the number of times that happens every year without trying too hard. That said, the rhetoric is really bias the other way. This isn't a debate between two equal sides in other words, and so don't construe peoples energy and love of a niche group to be conflated with koolaid or ideology as much as it is with embracing and pursuing an approach they probably have very little of in the place they live. I lived in Omaha, NE, for some time--how many rivendells are there? I know of 2, maybe? I recommend anyone engaged by a two week long argument on the internet step outside and remember we live on a fragile rock hurtling through the enormity of an infinite cosmos. It's not what you have or say, but it's what you do. What have all the posters in this thread been doing? I'd much rather hear about that. Ride on, erik On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 1:04 PM, Scott Henry ske...@gmail.com wrote: I have no problems talking about Rivs, I do it routinely. I have a problem talking bad about carbon because someone told you not to like it. A bike is a bike. Ride them all. Don't talk anyone out of riding anything. And personally, I like obnoxious women. Scott On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 3:47 PM, Kelly tkslee...@gmail.com wrote: Not sure where you got slow comfort bikes from. As for talking about rivs.. It is the Rivendell group ... So do you complain on the Ford group that they don't like Chevys. Probably.. :) Actually I have many bikes in the garage... Steel aluminum, and carbon. I've had two carbon frames break, one carbon fork, two carbon stems, one seat post break. Haven't broke the others yet I am not afraid to ride carbon , just not fond of the way it fails. I'm an obnoxious opinionated jerk.. And blame it on women in general.. What's your excuse. Kelly -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/kqbSXfogzrsJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com . To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. --
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
On Thursday, July 5, 2012 10:27:52 PM UTC-4, Mike wrote: ...Today when I was finishing up a short fast(ish) ride I went by two bike shops and was looking at CF bikes--endurance and distance models with lower BB heights and longer stays. No way. Or at least not today. No way would I choose a bike that wouldn't fit at least a 28 and a fender and there's no way I'm riding wheels with less than 32 spokes Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't a CF 'cross bike work in this case? -Pete in CT -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/gn1iHh4CU1QJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
On Friday, July 6, 2012 6:58:22 AM UTC-7, Peter Pesce wrote: Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't a CF 'cross bike work in this case? -Pete in CT Yeah, that would be an option but most of them seem to have fairly short HTs making it hard to get the bars where I'd want them although most of them tend to have fender eyelets. The idea of a CF bike was just a passing interest. It's not something I'm gonna get. Just not impressed. One thing that is nice is that there are so many options for inexpensive all-road steel bikes with nice clearance. The fit on my CC isn't ideal but it works. All-City, Salsa, Surly are all offering good all-road bikes. Salsa has some new bikes coming out including a gravel grinder. All-City has some nice bikes. Surly is great and I'm curious if this will be the year they release a disc brake cross bike although disc brakes aren't something that really interest me. I'm watching the tour as I respond to this and there was a pretty big pile-up of riders. Lots of them standing around waiting for new bikes and wheels. You gotta wonder, if they were on steel bikes more traditional wheels (28s as opposed to CF deep dish) would they weather cashes better? Would they be that much slower? I sorta doubt it. I think Grant has talked about it how it would be neat if the riders didn't have support cars easily available to them and had to fix their own flats. You'd see different equipment for sure. --mike -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/eUM_abqsqroJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
On Thursday, July 5, 2012 9:09:14 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote: carbon fiber forks are stupid Your approach and your passion, as someone else called it, fit well in the contemporary landscape of confrontational divisiveness, and are effective not in furthering the conversation, but in terminating it. Peter Bridge (Who believes that most facts are subjective, and who misses the courtesy, good humour, and wit of William F. Buckley Jr.) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/CXZLmX459UoJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
Perhaps it's personal with him, I don't know. I also admire the passion, and strong opinions, based on facts, can be refreshing. I know Rivendell sells some fine bicycles at reasonable prices. I just picked up a Homer and spent about a half-hour just looking at it. It's really quite stunning. The lug work, headbadge, and paint all work together to produce one fine piece of eye candy. I'm almost too scared to ride the damn thing! I said almost. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID -Original message- From: Peter Morgano uscpeter11...@gmail.com To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Sent: Thu, Jul 5, 2012 15:40:50 EDT Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride. While I dont agree with Grant on some stuff (see helmets) I admire his passion. All too often those who run a business can be worn down over time by the tide of criticism and in an attempt to appeal to the biggest audience possible and wind up sounding like some politician who cant just take a stand on something. I would rather have someone I vehemently disagree with than some syncophant who doesnt want to step on anyone's toes. And as for the hating on CF I do remember reading that GP knew someone who lost thier life due to a snapped CF fork so maybe it is a bit more personal to him than just cost and other superficial concerns. Again, I rode CF, and a SS conversion at that but as a bigger guy I was glad was glad to see it go rather than worrying if that next pothole was going to be my doom or not. On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 3:26 PM, pb pbridge...@aol.com wrote: On Tuesday, July 3, 2012 1:26:08 PM UTC-7, Brewster Fong wrote: Why does Grant continue to propagate such falsehood. Of course CARBON FIBER FRAMES CAN BE REPAIRED. Grants continued insistance that it can't be fixed makes him look petty and shows that he has no other way of degrading the material to sell his supposedly *superior* steel frames. Note, it can actually be easier and cheaper to repair carbon! I appreciated Brewster's comments. When I was a Reader subscriber, I was always saddened and alienated when Grant would assert that certain things were stupid, inferior, a fraud, a lie -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
True but I suppose I'm talking about a tourist in a foreign country or even in America with perhaps a busted dropout or something of that nature...even a cobbled repair on a tube using a 1/2 or full tube sleeve is possible in an emergency that would allow one to finish a tour with perhaps a rattle can paint job on the road until the frame can be properly worked on if one so chooses. I wouldn't pay to have someone else repair a $1000 dollar frame but I would repair a $2000 Atlantis or a custom for sure. The point I'm making is that it can more easily be done by more people across the country. On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 6:32:29 PM UTC-7, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote: Repairability is usually irrelevant. Often when a steel frame breaks or gets crashed, the repair/repaint bill rivals the cost of a new frame. Most people don't go through with it, in my experience. In any case, the percentage of broken frames of any material that get repaired is tiny. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/b294RBNAMu0J. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 4:47 AM, blueride2 rlh3...@gmail.com wrote: Who can deny that riding in a pace-line at 20+ mph isn't a hoot? Not me, that's for sure. I certainly can-I find pacelining in turn tense and tedious. Not unlike driving now that I think of it. SteveF, East Lansing, MI -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
This year I have been doing quite a bit of club riding, which seems to be just paceline riding. I have to say I don't prefer it and agree with Steve F that it is tense and tedious. It is also the reason why most clubs that I have tried to participate in lose beginning members or people who don't want to ride like they are preparing for a race. It is a shame that most of the club rides are geared towards pacelining. Paceline riding is a race technique and good for getting more speed out of a group of riders, but why it has to be what road biking is all about is beyond me. On Thursday, July 5, 2012 10:11:32 AM UTC-5, stevef wrote: On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 4:47 AM, blueride2 rlh3...@gmail.com wrote: Who can deny that riding in a pace-line at 20+ mph isn't a hoot? Not me, that's for sure. I certainly can-I find pacelining in turn tense and tedious. Not unlike driving now that I think of it. SteveF, East Lansing, MI -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/Wq8SV1GjCqEJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
The flip side for me is the local club (with a bunch of great people mind you) that go out for 20 - 50 mile rides depending on the weekly/monthly schedule on their website and proceed to stop, regroup, stop regroup, stop and eat, regroup, eat some more, etc. It's not that that isn't an enjoyable thing at times. But if I have a free weekend morning to put in 30-40 miles I typically don't have 4 hours that I'm willing to spend on it. I don't need to paceline ride but the slow meanders can drive me nuts as well. Regards, -- Addison http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
Several years ago I snagged a small tree clipping which got sucked into my front fender. The fender (plastic) collapsed into the fork crown and I went over the bars. Knocked my head, helmets are helpful, but relevant to this, I bent both fork blades and deformed the top and down tubes slightly. Took the bike over to Yellow Jersey in Madison, WI. They fixed it. Realigned the frame, rebuilt the headset (had to be removed to facilitate the cold bending). Cost: $112. Bike rides true. I can no-hand it. So I dunno. I think if folks find the right shop (must have table jig) they can restore moderate damage a lot more cheaply than going new. Grant is right about steel. On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 8:32:29 PM UTC-5, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote: Repairability is usually irrelevant. Often when a steel frame breaks or gets crashed, the repair/repaint bill rivals the cost of a new frame. Most people don't go through with it, in my experience. In any case, the percentage of broken frames of any material that get repaired is tiny. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/I1_l5cdMKTAJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
On Tuesday, July 3, 2012 1:26:08 PM UTC-7, Brewster Fong wrote: Why does Grant continue to propagate such falsehood. Of course CARBON FIBER FRAMES CAN BE REPAIRED. Grants continued insistance that it can't be fixed makes him look petty and shows that he has no other way of degrading the material to sell his supposedly *superior* steel frames. Note, it can actually be easier and cheaper to repair carbon! I appreciated Brewster's comments. When I was a Reader subscriber, I was always saddened and alienated when Grant would assert that certain things were stupid, inferior, a fraud, a lie, a hoax, blah, blah, blah. I always wished that he would figure out that it's sufficient to be different and to promote an alternative. It's not necessary to make derogatory comments -- facts, as one sees them, are more persuasive. I think that Xxx may be popular, but we feel that yyy is a desireable alternative -- or more desireable -- for the following reasons is much more more appealing to me than Xxx is a big fat lie. I've got bikes hanging in the garage that range from full-race (no more carbon frames, as it happens, titanium instead, but certainly carbon forks) to classic and neo-classic steel, to a rather tasty classic townie conversion with rubber pedals. I enjoy and appreciate all of them. Shrug. pb, who thoroughly enjoys riding in fast pacelines, and who also thoroughly enjoys relaxed and aimless solo cruises -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/Kb5p-HLQamUJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
While I dont agree with Grant on some stuff (see helmets) I admire his passion. All too often those who run a business can be worn down over time by the tide of criticism and in an attempt to appeal to the biggest audience possible and wind up sounding like some politician who cant just take a stand on something. I would rather have someone I vehemently disagree with than some syncophant who doesnt want to step on anyone's toes. And as for the hating on CF I do remember reading that GP knew someone who lost thier life due to a snapped CF fork so maybe it is a bit more personal to him than just cost and other superficial concerns. Again, I rode CF, and a SS conversion at that but as a bigger guy I was glad was glad to see it go rather than worrying if that next pothole was going to be my doom or not. On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 3:26 PM, pb pbridge...@aol.com wrote: On Tuesday, July 3, 2012 1:26:08 PM UTC-7, Brewster Fong wrote: Why does Grant continue to propagate such falsehood. Of course CARBON FIBER FRAMES CAN BE REPAIRED. Grants continued insistance that it can't be fixed makes him look petty and shows that he has no other way of degrading the material to sell his supposedly *superior* steel frames. Note, it can actually be easier and cheaper to repair carbon! I appreciated Brewster's comments. When I was a Reader subscriber, I was always saddened and alienated when Grant would assert that certain things were stupid, inferior, a fraud, a lie, a hoax, blah, blah, blah. I always wished that he would figure out that it's sufficient to be different and to promote an alternative. It's not necessary to make derogatory comments -- facts, as one sees them, are more persuasive. I think that Xxx may be popular, but we feel that yyy is a desireable alternative -- or more desireable -- for the following reasons is much more more appealing to me than Xxx is a big fat lie. I've got bikes hanging in the garage that range from full-race (no more carbon frames, as it happens, titanium instead, but certainly carbon forks) to classic and neo-classic steel, to a rather tasty classic townie conversion with rubber pedals. I enjoy and appreciate all of them. Shrug. pb, who thoroughly enjoys riding in fast pacelines, and who also thoroughly enjoys relaxed and aimless solo cruises -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/Kb5p-HLQamUJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
On Thursday, July 5, 2012 12:40:50 PM UTC-7, Peter M wrote: While I dont agree with Grant on some stuff (see helmets) I admire his passion. Agreed. I loved Just Ride. And yeah, I didn't agree with all of it but there's an energy and enthusiasm to it that is infectious. I'm really grateful I fell under the Riv spell as it got me out of a rut with cycling. At the same time that I was discovering Riv I was also discovering randonneuring which also helped save cycling for me. I feel I've found a middle ground between wannabe racer and unracer. To be honest, there are plenty of days where I'm kitted up and hammering but there are also days when I'm on platform pedals and noodling around on mixed terrain. I don't have to choose one over the other, I can maneuver between the two. Cycling is huge and there are all kinds of people out there enjoying it on their own and basically living the Just Ride ethos who have probably never heard of Grant or Rivendell. There's others like myself who found stuff like that to be refreshing and revitalizing in spite of initial skepticism. When I was finishing the Cascade 1200k last week I was riding with guys on contemporary road bikes. Nice CF ones. Part of me started thinking, maybe I need to approach CF with a more open mind, maybe there's a place for one of those bikes in my stable since I'm riding strong and feeling enthusiastic about cycling. Today when I was finishing up a short fast(ish) ride I went by two bike shops and was looking at CF bikes--endurance and distance models with lower BB heights and longer stays. No way. Or at least not today. No way would I choose a bike that wouldn't fit at least a 28 and a fender and there's no way I'm riding wheels with less than 32 spokes. Maybe I'm missing out but it's just not for me. My CC with Jack Browns, a WTB saddle, bars a few CM below the saddle and indexed BE shifters are go fast enough for me. I may consider STI shifters later in the year but certainly not now. Tomorrow I'm looking forward to getting back on my Hilsen which is currently set up with platform pedals and racks and doing a mixed terrain ride through Forest Park. Maybe I'll bring along Just Ride and read it at a cafe mid-ride. --mike -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/64S0hoAm_SYJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
I post frequently on a cable news blog, and every few weeks someone will respond to my statement about this or that with That's just your opinion! Uh, yeah..most people don't need to be reminded that I'm voicing my opinion when I say something on a blog. As Grant has stated many times - including this week - he writes about things from his POV. He's not pretending that everything he says is an irrefutable fact, or devoid of all hyperbole. If his Blug turns into and endless series of IMOs and YRMVs, I'll stop reading. I don't need caution stickers all over the opinions I read. Joe carbon fiber forks are stupid Bernard Vallejo, CA. On Thursday, July 5, 2012 7:27:52 PM UTC-7, Mike wrote: On Thursday, July 5, 2012 12:40:50 PM UTC-7, Peter M wrote: While I dont agree with Grant on some stuff (see helmets) I admire his passion. Agreed. I loved Just Ride. And yeah, I didn't agree with all of it but there's an energy and enthusiasm to it that is infectious. I'm really grateful I fell under the Riv spell as it got me out of a rut with cycling. At the same time that I was discovering Riv I was also discovering randonneuring which also helped save cycling for me. I feel I've found a middle ground between wannabe racer and unracer. To be honest, there are plenty of days where I'm kitted up and hammering but there are also days when I'm on platform pedals and noodling around on mixed terrain. I don't have to choose one over the other, I can maneuver between the two. Cycling is huge and there are all kinds of people out there enjoying it on their own and basically living the Just Ride ethos who have probably never heard of Grant or Rivendell. There's others like myself who found stuff like that to be refreshing and revitalizing in spite of initial skepticism. When I was finishing the Cascade 1200k last week I was riding with guys on contemporary road bikes. Nice CF ones. Part of me started thinking, maybe I need to approach CF with a more open mind, maybe there's a place for one of those bikes in my stable since I'm riding strong and feeling enthusiastic about cycling. Today when I was finishing up a short fast(ish) ride I went by two bike shops and was looking at CF bikes--endurance and distance models with lower BB heights and longer stays. No way. Or at least not today. No way would I choose a bike that wouldn't fit at least a 28 and a fender and there's no way I'm riding wheels with less than 32 spokes. Maybe I'm missing out but it's just not for me. My CC with Jack Browns, a WTB saddle, bars a few CM below the saddle and indexed BE shifters are go fast enough for me. I may consider STI shifters later in the year but certainly not now. Tomorrow I'm looking forward to getting back on my Hilsen which is currently set up with platform pedals and racks and doing a mixed terrain ride through Forest Park. Maybe I'll bring along Just Ride and read it at a cafe mid-ride. --mike -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/o_3G7UcOLUkJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
I'm not sure if he said CF can't be repaired..but it is definitely easier to find someone to repair a steel frame in nearly every major city and probably many rural areas too. Brazing or silver soldering it a fairly common skill among many rural dwellers..I even learned it in shop class in high school. CF wasn't invented then and without specific knowledge and specialized materials you are kind of left with a broken bicycle until you can get your frame to a CF repair place. I think this might be Grants perspective more or less and that does make a case for steel over most other materials. On Tuesday, July 3, 2012 1:26:08 PM UTC-7, Brewster Fong wrote: On Tuesday, July 3, 2012 10:03:55 AM UTC-7, Peter M wrote: Also to Grant's point steel can be fixed if it fails while CF cannot. Why does Grant continue to propagate such falsehood. Of course CARBON FIBER FRAMES CAN BE REPAIRED. Grants continued insistance that it can't be fixed makes him look petty and shows that he has no other way of degrading the material to sell his supposedly *superior* steel frames. Note, it can actually be easier and cheaper to repair carbon! Btw, for those of you who don't believe it, CF can easily be repaired and there are several builders who do it. Here's one of the best: http://www.calfeedesign.com/repair/ For photos go here: http://www.calfeedesign.com/repair/repair-examples-photos/ Good Luck! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/ZyxzetLvCY8J. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
Repairability is usually irrelevant. Often when a steel frame breaks or gets crashed, the repair/repaint bill rivals the cost of a new frame. Most people don't go through with it, in my experience. In any case, the percentage of broken frames of any material that get repaired is tiny. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/a1TK1wqdR2wJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
I can't believe no one has mentioned this yet. Lugs. You can try to spec a CF frame to duplicate a Rivendell all you want, but you're still not gonna get pretty lugs and contrasting creme panels. No CF for me..I'd miss the lugs, and I don't trust that thin plastic. I watch a lot of Formula One auto racing, and I've seen a lot of CF cars wreck: that stuff snaps into lethal shards. Nuh uh. Joe Bernard Vallejo, CA. On Monday, July 2, 2012 9:07:45 PM UTC-7, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote: I agree with Steve, and share his wholehearted disinterest in CF. Riding a bike, for me, has nothing to do with eking out every milligram of performance. A customer lady asked me last week if I was a racer. My response was an entirely unplanned and unrehearsed: Nope, I ride my bike for transportation, recreation, and adventure. I think that about sums it up. Because these endeavors usually don't benefit much, if any, from a couple pounds either way, CF holds no appeal for me. If it happens someday that CF frames become as tough and versatile and inexpensive as a Surly Cross-Check, I might reconsider, but then again, why bother? On Monday, July 2, 2012 3:02:53 PM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote: On Mon, 2012-07-02 at 12:59 -0700, Garth wrote: I wonder if everyone had the choice of their favorite Riv frame with the exact same dimensions, in both steel and CF for about the same price which would you choose ? Steel, without question. I have no interest whatever in carbon fiber. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/tBeatSAafZYJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
If at first the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it. -- Albert Einsteinhttp://www.goodreads.com/author/show/9810.Albert_Einstein -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/DjUdSdyIQYoJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
I think CF bikes have their place in the world of cycling, and I certainly subscribe to live and let live as it applies to cycling. It should be ride and let ride. The point is ride what you have, and try to have a good time doing it.Who can deny that riding in a pace-line at 20+ mph isn't a hoot? Not me, that's for sure. A good lightweight CF bike makes this a lot easier, than say a 26 pound steel bike.No, what is upsetting is the near total dominance of CF bikes in the market today. If riders could own just one bike, most of us, would be better served on a steel bike. More versatile for sure. I'm in the middle of Just Ride and find it a very enjoyable and interesting read. I do think Grant's off-base somewhat on the durability of CF frames. Having owned several CF bikes over a 10 year span, I haven't had a lick of trouble with any of them. No exploding or cracked frames, I even crashed one of them. Look at the millions of CF forks out there. If there was an issue with these forks self-destructing, the liability issue would quickly drive manufacturers out-of-business. Face it, CF bikes are here to stay. A well designed CF frame will last a long time. Hell, at times, I even ride CF wheels. Oh, the horror of it all! Having said that, I love steel bikes too. The ride quality just can't be beat, except maybe for Ti bikes, but I've never ridden nor owned one so I can't comment. Richard On Monday, July 2, 2012 4:02:53 PM UTC-4, Steve Palincsar wrote: On Mon, 2012-07-02 at 12:59 -0700, Garth wrote: I wonder if everyone had the choice of their favorite Riv frame with the exact same dimensions, in both steel and CF for about the same price which would you choose ? Steel, without question. I have no interest whatever in carbon fiber. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/uTY3iqhZUHUJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
I have read the book too and dont take it as describing that CF fails more often, its just that when it does it is catastrophic and sometimes deadly. Steel, Aluminum and Titanium all fail too but its just that when they do it is somewhat predicatable and less sudden, giving the rider time to compensate or dismount the bike before something dangerous happens. Also to Grant's point steel can be fixed if it fails while CF cannot. As i mentioned earlier I rode a vintage LOOK KG96 for a long time and had no issues but if there was an issue I would not have seen it until the bike collapsed under me, different from my old Peugot which developed a small then increasingly larger crack around the BB to let me know it was time to hang it up. On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 4:47 AM, blueride2 rlh3...@gmail.com wrote: I think CF bikes have their place in the world of cycling, and I certainly subscribe to live and let live as it applies to cycling. It should be ride and let ride. The point is ride what you have, and try to have a good time doing it.Who can deny that riding in a pace-line at 20+ mph isn't a hoot? Not me, that's for sure. A good lightweight CF bike makes this a lot easier, than say a 26 pound steel bike.No, what is upsetting is the near total dominance of CF bikes in the market today. If riders could own just one bike, most of us, would be better served on a steel bike. More versatile for sure. I'm in the middle of Just Ride and find it a very enjoyable and interesting read. I do think Grant's off-base somewhat on the durability of CF frames. Having owned several CF bikes over a 10 year span, I haven't had a lick of trouble with any of them. No exploding or cracked frames, I even crashed one of them. Look at the millions of CF forks out there. If there was an issue with these forks self-destructing, the liability issue would quickly drive manufacturers out-of-business. Face it, CF bikes are here to stay. A well designed CF frame will last a long time. Hell, at times, I even ride CF wheels. Oh, the horror of it all! Having said that, I love steel bikes too. The ride quality just can't be beat, except maybe for Ti bikes, but I've never ridden nor owned one so I can't comment. Richard On Monday, July 2, 2012 4:02:53 PM UTC-4, Steve Palincsar wrote: On Mon, 2012-07-02 at 12:59 -0700, Garth wrote: I wonder if everyone had the choice of their favorite Riv frame with the exact same dimensions, in both steel and CF for about the same price which would you choose ? Steel, without question. I have no interest whatever in carbon fiber. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/uTY3iqhZUHUJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
On Jul 2, 2012, at 2:23 PM, Garth wrote: Steve, My hypothesis is for each of us, if we wish, to look at our own prejudices towards a material we may actually know nothing about ! Just becasue so and so says it was this or that . It may be true for them... but is it true for me ? And if your favourite frame could be 5 pounds lighter for the same price would you still choose your heavier one ? .. after all ... weight doesn't matter... right ? lol :) There are a couple of things to consider. First, if you make the frame and fork out of CF, I think you would be hard pressed to remove 5 pounds vs a modern steel frame. There just isn't that much difference. To remove 5 or 10 pounds from a bicycle setup means you have to pursue minimizing weight in componentry as well. Second, from working in the bicycle industry and the fishing/outdoor industry for a while, I've seen many, many, many Carbon Fiber failures - a number of which I've experienced firsthand. The issue is - and always will be - the nature of the way CF fails. In my direct experience, it fails catastrophically and with no warning. It folds. It splits. It severs. It cracks.(And Aluminum tends to fail in a similar fashion, though in my experience it at least gives more warning if you actively look for surface cracks.) Once it takes a direct impact, you no longer trust it. Way back in pre-history. A Person Who Knows told me that the best bike is the one that gets you home. (It wasn't GP, by the way). I've kept that nugget in the back of my brain since then. Even when I was getting transfixed by lighter and lighter bits, that kept getting more and more fiddly and idiosyncratic. When I realized I was spending more time coaxing my bikes to work than riding them, I started to reassess the idea of weight meaning everything. My bikes (well, all but my old soft-nose mtb which I don't really ride that much) are steel because it is the best material for me, the way I ride and my piece of mind when I'm rolling down the mountain at speed.Yeah, there are places you can focus on to sensibly remove excess weight, but the times that really matters (as has been pretty well documented) are pretty much when the road points upward. - Jim / Cyclofiend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
Video of Ur-Rivendell (look at the saddle and post!) beating CF. No-retention pedals 'n' all! Whoo hoo! http://xo.typepad.com/blog/2009/10/video-100yearold-bike-vs-tour-de-france-bike.html The hefty blondes must be the control group. Dunno about the loudmouth in the suit. They are speaking Welsh. -- Push back against the age as hard as it pushes against you. Flannery O'Connor - Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW http://resumespecialties.com/index.html - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
On Tuesday, July 3, 2012 10:03:55 AM UTC-7, Peter M wrote: Also to Grant's point steel can be fixed if it fails while CF cannot. Why does Grant continue to propagate such falsehood. Of course CARBON FIBER FRAMES CAN BE REPAIRED. Grants continued insistance that it can't be fixed makes him look petty and shows that he has no other way of degrading the material to sell his supposedly *superior* steel frames. Note, it can actually be easier and cheaper to repair carbon! Btw, for those of you who don't believe it, CF can easily be repaired and there are several builders who do it. Here's one of the best: http://www.calfeedesign.com/repair/ For photos go here: http://www.calfeedesign.com/repair/repair-examples-photos/ Good Luck! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/cmZ-oaFdKZAJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
I have seen calfees work and it is top notch but I would never ride a repaired cf frame. On Jul 3, 2012 4:26 PM, Brewster Fong bfd...@gmail.com wrote: On Tuesday, July 3, 2012 10:03:55 AM UTC-7, Peter M wrote: Also to Grant's point steel can be fixed if it fails while CF cannot. Why does Grant continue to propagate such falsehood. Of course CARBON FIBER FRAMES CAN BE REPAIRED. Grants continued insistance that it can't be fixed makes him look petty and shows that he has no other way of degrading the material to sell his supposedly *superior* steel frames. Note, it can actually be easier and cheaper to repair carbon! Btw, for those of you who don't believe it, CF can easily be repaired and there are several builders who do it. Here's one of the best: http://www.calfeedesign.com/repair/ For photos go here: http://www.calfeedesign.com/repair/repair-examples-photos/ Good Luck! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/cmZ-oaFdKZAJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
Can we drop the carbon vs. steel discussion? Unless discuss carbon vs steel helmets... :-D There doesn't seem to be much enlightment in this topic... On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 1:44 PM, Peter Morgano uscpeter11...@gmail.comwrote: I have seen calfees work and it is top notch but I would never ride a repaired cf frame. On Jul 3, 2012 4:26 PM, Brewster Fong bfd...@gmail.com wrote: On Tuesday, July 3, 2012 10:03:55 AM UTC-7, Peter M wrote: Also to Grant's point steel can be fixed if it fails while CF cannot. Why does Grant continue to propagate such falsehood. Of course CARBON FIBER FRAMES CAN BE REPAIRED. Grants continued insistance that it can't be fixed makes him look petty and shows that he has no other way of degrading the material to sell his supposedly *superior* steel frames. Note, it can actually be easier and cheaper to repair carbon! Btw, for those of you who don't believe it, CF can easily be repaired and there are several builders who do it. Here's one of the best: http://www.calfeedesign.com/repair/ For photos go here: http://www.calfeedesign.com/repair/repair-examples-photos/ Good Luck! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/cmZ-oaFdKZAJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
On Mon, 2012-07-02 at 12:59 -0700, Garth wrote: I wonder if everyone had the choice of their favorite Riv frame with the exact same dimensions, in both steel and CF for about the same price which would you choose ? Steel, without question. I have no interest whatever in carbon fiber. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
Having owned both I would never go back to CF, sold my look KG96 a while ago to someone who really really wanted it and was glad to see it go. On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 4:02 PM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On Mon, 2012-07-02 at 12:59 -0700, Garth wrote: I wonder if everyone had the choice of their favorite Riv frame with the exact same dimensions, in both steel and CF for about the same price which would you choose ? Steel, without question. I have no interest whatever in carbon fiber. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
Garth: So, you are in the relatively small camp who are willing to consider that five or six lbs removed might make a bike more pleasant. Me, too, but I think I'd opt (given money, time, etc etc) for titanium rather than CF simply because ti's durability is a given while at least many question the durability of CF. If I knew for certain that CF could last a lifetime of normal wear and tear, I'd certainly be open to it. I know nothing about it except that some claim it can be very strong, others that if feels rather dead. But it would be interesting to see monocoque CF used for integrating what are usually bolt on pieces -- fenders, storage, lighting, wiring, racks. (The good news is that y'all's Bombas or Hunqas are probably lighter than my Fargo. Now a Ti Fargo would be nice -- I know, they have one, but I can't afford it and it would be foolish for me, even if I could, to drop the $ just to save what, a couple of lbs?) Steve: why do you have no interest at all in CF? On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 1:59 PM, Garth garth...@gmail.com wrote: I wonder if everyone had the choice of their favorite Riv frame with the exact same dimensions, in both steel and CF for about the same price which would you choose ? For myself, I simply do not have the option of riding a CF frame as the size and dimensions I prefer do not exist in CF . BUT if I had a choice of the same frame in either or I might have a hard time deciding ... lol . Imagine a 3 or 4 lb. frame/fork vs. a 8-10 that a Bombadil or Hunq. weigh .. it would certainly make me think about it . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/2OZTwgCt9kMJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- Push back against the age as hard as it pushes against you. Flannery O'Connor - Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW http://resumespecialties.com/index.html - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
Hey now, if they had a exact geometry and clearance Titanium AHH it would be a tempting proposition, not sure it would ever make cost sense though. On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 4:09 PM, PATRICK MOORE bertin...@gmail.com wrote: Garth: So, you are in the relatively small camp who are willing to consider that five or six lbs removed might make a bike more pleasant. Me, too, but I think I'd opt (given money, time, etc etc) for titanium rather than CF simply because ti's durability is a given while at least many question the durability of CF. If I knew for certain that CF could last a lifetime of normal wear and tear, I'd certainly be open to it. I know nothing about it except that some claim it can be very strong, others that if feels rather dead. But it would be interesting to see monocoque CF used for integrating what are usually bolt on pieces -- fenders, storage, lighting, wiring, racks. (The good news is that y'all's Bombas or Hunqas are probably lighter than my Fargo. Now a Ti Fargo would be nice -- I know, they have one, but I can't afford it and it would be foolish for me, even if I could, to drop the $ just to save what, a couple of lbs?) Steve: why do you have no interest at all in CF? On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 1:59 PM, Garth garth...@gmail.com wrote: I wonder if everyone had the choice of their favorite Riv frame with the exact same dimensions, in both steel and CF for about the same price which would you choose ? For myself, I simply do not have the option of riding a CF frame as the size and dimensions I prefer do not exist in CF . BUT if I had a choice of the same frame in either or I might have a hard time deciding ... lol . Imagine a 3 or 4 lb. frame/fork vs. a 8-10 that a Bombadil or Hunq. weigh .. it would certainly make me think about it . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/2OZTwgCt9kMJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- Push back against the age as hard as it pushes against you. Flannery O'Connor - Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW http://resumespecialties.com/index.html - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
On Mon, 2012-07-02 at 14:09 -0600, PATRICK MOORE wrote: Garth: So, you are in the relatively small camp who are willing to consider that five or six lbs removed might make a bike more pleasant. Me, too, but I think I'd opt (given money, time, etc etc) for titanium rather than CF simply because ti's durability is a given while at least many question the durability of CF. If I knew for certain that CF could last a lifetime of normal wear and tear, I'd certainly be open to it. I know nothing about it except that some claim it can be very strong, others that if feels rather dead. But it would be interesting to see monocoque CF used for integrating what are usually bolt on pieces -- fenders, storage, lighting, wiring, racks. (The good news is that y'all's Bombas or Hunqas are probably lighter than my Fargo. Now a Ti Fargo would be nice -- I know, they have one, but I can't afford it and it would be foolish for me, even if I could, to drop the $ just to save what, a couple of lbs?) Steve: why do you have no interest at all in CF? I have always liked the way Ti looks, from the first moment I saw the prototype Merlin MTB tandem they were testing while I was at Amherst at the Eastern Tandem Rally back in the late 80s. I went up to it and said You are beautiful, what are you! I bought a Spectrum custom Ti in 1991, which I still ride. It still looks good. I also have a Ti Santana tandem, this one polished rather than clear-coated satin finish. They look beautiful, they feel great, and as evidenced by 21 years of regular use, they stand up to it. I rode a carbon Trek once. I went to a bike rally in 2000 or 2001 and Trek was out in force, twisting people's arms to get them to take test rides. I rode about 1/4 mi on a Postal Service OCLV and thought it felt like I was riding a plywood bike, totally dead-feeling, not at all metallic. I know two people who have had to have CF frames replaced because they propped their bikes up against trees w/2 full water bottles, and when the bikes fell over the frames split where the water bottle cage joins the frame. How many times I've had a steel or Ti bike fall over! Worst that ever happened was once I had to replace the handle bar. And then, there's the small matter of what bikes look like. Today's CF road bikes look to me like children of the Bowen Spacelander. None of them look like what I think a bike should look like. Some are downright disgustingly ugly, some just laughable (like that Pinarello that obviously was left in somebody's car trunk on a 104 degree day). None are appealing to me. (Yeah, but you're a cranky old man, set in your ways! OK, so?) Ah, but what of the CF virtues? Look at that low weight, and that aero slickness! Yeah, but when you weigh 0.1 tons and everybody loves to draft off of you because of what a huge wind shadow you make, a few pounds off the frame and a few less grams of frame wind resistance don't mean diddly. And besides, the whole question is moot. You simply can't get a CF equivalent of the sort of bikes I've bought lately. Sure, if you want a 700x23 road racer, take your pick, the marketplace is chock full of them. But I don't want one. I already own the Spectrum, although I use 25mm tires with it, and with a rack on the back and bar end shifters and a 20/32/44 MTB crank it's pretty far from the road racers people are making today; and if for some reason that bike went away I would not replace it. My two most recent bikes are both randonneurs, one 700x32, one 650Bx42. Both are low trail, both use a large size Berthoud handlebar bag. Both have fittings for 3 water bottle cages, both have fenders. Not Rivs, perhaps, but anyone here looking at them would undoubtedly say they are both all Rivved out. You aren't going to find anything like that in carbon. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
On Mon, 2012-07-02 at 16:28 -0400, Peter Morgano wrote: Hey now, if they had a exact geometry and clearance Titanium AHH it would be a tempting proposition, not sure it would ever make cost sense though. And there aren't any suitable carbon forks for a bike like that, are there? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
Not with the clearance for 42s, that is a pipe dream for sure On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 4:35 PM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On Mon, 2012-07-02 at 16:28 -0400, Peter Morgano wrote: Hey now, if they had a exact geometry and clearance Titanium AHH it would be a tempting proposition, not sure it would ever make cost sense though. And there aren't any suitable carbon forks for a bike like that, are there? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
On Monday, July 2, 2012 4:35:10 PM UTC-4, Steve Palincsar wrote: And there aren't any suitable carbon forks for a bike like that, are there? My proposition was a hypothetical Steve . the dimensions of the bikes could be identical ... no matter if it's a Bomba, Atlantis, AHH or whatever . Every dimension could be duplicated... meaning the choice would not come down to geometry, or tire size etc purely on material. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/mfHBYm-xt_8J. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
Yeah Patrick , I've never ridden or owned a CF frame so any information is second hand ... lol. The feel of a CF may have a lot to do with the geometry used also and you don't really know where a person is coming from in saying it feels dead. You really can't compare steel and CF directly spec for spec because the simply are made differently today . Maybe if they still made lugged CF like when they originated in the 80's you could compare them ... and I bet they rode quite similar . I guess my main concern though, like yours would be longevity and durability in the long run. And yes ... Titanium would be an interesting option too ! I'm not weight weenie either but yeah if the exact same frame would weigh 5 lbs. less ? Heck yes I'd consider it ! I ride hills every day too. While yes ... it is all about the experience and less weight may not matter in some ways ... it does matter in others. It depends on how you want your experience to be . . . and we each inherently get to choose that experience . What anyone else thinks *So What* ! Who ya' riding for ? lol :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/ikRA5S_IU04J. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
On Mon, 2012-07-02 at 13:47 -0700, Garth wrote: On Monday, July 2, 2012 4:35:10 PM UTC-4, Steve Palincsar wrote: And there aren't any suitable carbon forks for a bike like that, are there? My proposition was a hypothetical Steve . the dimensions of the bikes could be identical ... no matter if it's a Bomba, Atlantis, AHH or whatever . Every dimension could be duplicated... meaning the choice would not come down to geometry, or tire size etc purely on material. Too hypothetical and theoretical for me, I'm afraid. Modern CF -- molded CF, not tube-and-lug construction -- is a mass production medium. The mold costs the earth, the first one off costs a million bucks, and every one after costs two bucks to make. In order to pay off the cost of the mold, you need a big production run. Contrast that with steel or Ti, where you literally can make any dimension you want, subject to the availability of the tubing (my Ti Spectrum has constant diameter chain stays, for example, because back in 1991 there was no titanium bike tubing, my bike's made of tubing meant to be used in a nuclear reactor or an airplane) as a one-off and it won't cost any more than any other bike, one-off or stock. And the mass market for a bike that would interest me simply does not exist... even though in my opinion, they make a lot more sense for most people who are riding CF road racers than those CF road racers. Ever see a six foot six guy weighing 230 lb riding a CF road racer with 23mm tires because he can't even fit 25mm tires due to narrow frame clearances? (Actually, that friend of mine has hung his Cervelo up on a hook, and is now riding a custom Ti Seven, and thinks it's a hundred times nicer bike than the CF Cervelo.) As long as what sells is faux-Tour-de-France let's all make believe we are PRO road racers, and everyone riding one wants to be into the shaved-leg-roadie culture, the market for anything /we/ would be interested in is going to be pretty small. And those small production runs make sense for certain materials... and not for others. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
On Mon, 2012-07-02 at 14:04 -0700, RJM wrote: I have ridden enough CF bikes to know that I prefer steel bikes. With the size bike I need, I can get a steel bike to under 20 lbs pretty easily and that isn't even going completely weight weenie. Getting a bike down to 15 lbs won't make me like biking anymore than I already do, it won't make the ride any more enjoyable, and it won't suddenly make me want to be lance armstrong and use every ride as a race. That kind of weight difference just doesn't matter to me at all. What does matter is that the bike looks nice, will last for years, and I don't have to worry about dropping it. Is anybody making a carbon fiber touring bike yet? No, and not likely anyone ever will. Not only is touring a very tiny niche and so not economical for the molded CF method of production, there's also the matter of rack attachment that Calfee or Crumpton (I can never keep them straight) mentioned in a sidebar to the BQ review. He prefers P clamps because then if you drop the bike with a loaded rack, the rack will slip rather than put a sideways stress on the stays which would split the stay and would be entirely unrepairable in the field (me paraphrasing the builder). I believe it; as I said, I know two people who had to replace CF frames because the weight of a water bottle split the downtube when the bike fell over. Imagine how much more stress a rack w/two loaded panniers would create compared to the tiny weight of a water bottle! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
Steve, My hypothesis is for each of us, if we wish, to look at our own prejudices towards a material we may actually know nothing about ! Just becasue so and so says it was this or that . It may be true for them... but is it true for me ? And if your favourite frame *could be* 5 pounds lighter for the same price would you still choose your heavier one ? .. after all ... weight doesn't matter... right ? lol :) For myself ... it doesn't matter up to point ! I don't want another 10 lbs. added to my Bombadil for sure ! Nor do I want to ride 1000 gram rims. There IS a difference in feel and we need not put up with more weight of the bike than we choose to . It's all about our individual choice. That's why we even exist ... to *choose *:) Would I like a F150 that weighed 3000-3500 lbs and had 500 HP and got 50 MPG ? Ummm if I could I just might want it ! We're all kinda snobbish in our own ways and it's okay to admit it ... or not .. lol :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/8W6HGjmaVhAJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
Garth- I think the point to be gleaned from the responses to your hypothetical is that many people feel that duplicating the geometry of a given bike in a different material does *not* make it the same bike, only lighter. A bike is more than the sum of the geometry angles plus weight. For many people specific kinds of strength, durability, ineffable ride qualities, looks, and appreciation for a particular craft of construction ALL contribute to making it your favorite bike. You can't conclude that people irrationally hate carbon just because you've asked them a question where you think the only variable is carbon or steel. I'm all for well-constructed mental exercises, and I appreciate your question if for no other reason than it lit up the forum during a boring afternoon at work! Pete in CT On Monday, July 2, 2012 5:23:01 PM UTC-4, Garth wrote: Steve, My hypothesis is for each of us, if we wish, to look at our own prejudices towards a material we may actually know nothing about ! Just becasue so and so says it was this or that . It may be true for them... but is it true for me ? And if your favourite frame *could be* 5 pounds lighter for the same price would you still choose your heavier one ? .. after all ... weight doesn't matter... right ? lol :) For myself ... it doesn't matter up to point ! I don't want another 10 lbs. added to my Bombadil for sure ! Nor do I want to ride 1000 gram rims. There IS a difference in feel and we need not put up with more weight of the bike than we choose to . It's all about our individual choice. That's why we even exist ... to *choose *:) Would I like a F150 that weighed 3000-3500 lbs and had 500 HP and got 50 MPG ? Ummm if I could I just might want it ! We're all kinda snobbish in our own ways and it's okay to admit it ... or not .. lol :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/ZmDs7dp3QYIJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
On Mon, 2012-07-02 at 14:23 -0700, Garth wrote: Steve, My hypothesis is for each of us, if we wish, to look at our own prejudices towards a material we may actually know nothing about ! Just becasue so and so says it was this or that . It may be true for them... but is it true for me ? And if your favourite frame could be 5 pounds lighter for the same price would you still choose your heavier one ? .. after all ... weight doesn't matter... right ? lol :) And I think I explained why that can never be. Wishing never makes a bike, production processes do. And some materials are more amenable to a custom, one-off, limited production for a niche market than others. If I want to lose 5 lb, it makes more sense to lose it off me than off the frame. And if I pursued losing those 5 pounds maybe six times, then by gar, I could lose a few spokes off my wheels, too. For myself ... it doesn't matter up to point ! I don't want another 10 lbs. added to my Bombadil for sure ! Nor do I want to ride 1000 gram rims. There IS a difference in feel and we need not put up with more weight of the bike than we choose to . It's all about our individual choice. That's why we even exist ... to choose :) Yes, Step away from that ice cream bar! Would I like a F150 that weighed 3000-3500 lbs and had 500 HP and got 50 MPG ? Ummm if I could I just might want it ! We're all kinda snobbish in our own ways and it's okay to admit it ... or not .. lol :) No, that's just plain silly, not snobbish. 500 hp, 50 mpg, pick one. It's like the holy trinity, Good, fast, cheap: pick any 2. Some things you simply cannot have, and wishing for them is futile. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
Interesting discussion -- the RBWlist equivalent of discussing angels dancing on the points of pins, but interesting. (Actually, the possibly legendary discussion of angels on pins is interesting to in that it really bears on the different meanings -- and modes -- of presence: presence of location, presence of causality, etc which, if y'all were 13th century scholastics-in-training, would be quotidian --yes!! -- distinctions.) Interesting nonetheless to hear more people say that CF feels dead. My brother has a couple of 20 year old Merlins and he likes the ride, but his few and brief experiences with CF also indicated dead. FWIW, my heavy-framed-'n'-forked '03 Curt weighed 7 lb for frame, fork and headset, yet I built it up as a 1X10 to come in at just under 19 lb with the only silly light articles being a ti stem binder bolt; unless you consider a Phil ti 113 silly light: Phil said that trackies use them, so I'm not worried. I myself believe that there is a point at which weight does matter, but that, also, this point can shift considerably depending on (1) the subjective propensities of the rider and (2) other qualities of the bike in question. My erstwhile, fully loaded Herse randonneur was a true tank: memory has it feeling in heft like the Fargo with the lighter wheelset; yet it had me pushing a higher gear quite happily. Magic pixie dust? Hallowed name resonance? Who knows, but it was a fast feeling bike. (I sold it because it did not carry heavy loads as well as I like and because I have other fast feeling bikes, to wit my Rivs. On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 4:22 PM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On Mon, 2012-07-02 at 14:23 -0700, Garth wrote: Steve, My hypothesis is for each of us, if we wish, to look at our own prejudices towards a material we may actually know nothing about ! Just becasue so and so says it was this or that . It may be true for them... but is it true for me ? And if your favourite frame could be 5 pounds lighter for the same price would you still choose your heavier one ? .. after all ... weight doesn't matter... right ? lol :) And I think I explained why that can never be. Wishing never makes a bike, production processes do. And some materials are more amenable to a custom, one-off, limited production for a niche market than others. If I want to lose 5 lb, it makes more sense to lose it off me than off the frame. And if I pursued losing those 5 pounds maybe six times, then by gar, I could lose a few spokes off my wheels, too. For myself ... it doesn't matter up to point ! I don't want another 10 lbs. added to my Bombadil for sure ! Nor do I want to ride 1000 gram rims. There IS a difference in feel and we need not put up with more weight of the bike than we choose to . It's all about our individual choice. That's why we even exist ... to choose :) Yes, Step away from that ice cream bar! Would I like a F150 that weighed 3000-3500 lbs and had 500 HP and got 50 MPG ? Ummm if I could I just might want it ! We're all kinda snobbish in our own ways and it's okay to admit it ... or not .. lol :) No, that's just plain silly, not snobbish. 500 hp, 50 mpg, pick one. It's like the holy trinity, Good, fast, cheap: pick any 2. Some things you simply cannot have, and wishing for them is futile. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- Push back against the age as hard as it pushes against you. Flannery O'Connor - Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW http://resumespecialties.com/index.html - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
Steve If everyone on earth stopped using their imagination there would be no more life. Life IS imagination . Where does anything come from ? Bicycles? Cars ? Buildings? etc. etc. Someone had to imagine them into being . They were not dropped off to us by a band of cycling aliens , were they ? ; Our Imagination creates our creations do not imagine themselves into being. As I said ... it's all our choice of beliefs ... everything. The only thing that stops us from creating a 50 mpg 50 hp truck, a 3lb. Bomabadil frame, or *whatever we imagine* Is not allowing our imagination to imagine the possibility. Ask any inventor of anything everything starts of imagination. Look at electricity it couldn't be done because all there was was lamps. Impossible most said here's your choice of lamps ... live with them lol. Well, someone imagined someone played and worked with that imagination ... and the impossible became reality . Rivendell Bicycles did not come to be because someone told Grant it could not be done because it did not exist ! It existed in his imagination first ... and here it is. And that's the beauty of life you make your choices ... I make mine ... everyone makes their own. Life rocks !!! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/rqlRdac3DbAJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
On Mon, 2012-07-02 at 15:59 -0700, Garth wrote: As I said ... it's all our choice of beliefs ... everything. The only thing that stops us from creating a 50 mpg 50 hp truck, a 3lb. Bomabadil frame, or whatever we imagine Is not allowing our imagination to imagine the possibility. Sorry, but I think the laws of physics have something to do with it as well. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
FWIW, I still remember how in my pre-Rivendell life I had a steel Gunnar cyclocross bike that naturally came with a steel fork. Since at the time I believed carbon was better (but somehow loved how the Gunnar rode more than my high-end Specialized Roubaix), I ordered a carbon fork right away (and removed one pound off the weight of the bike) which I proceeded to use on the bike with 23mm tires. Then one day, the top cap of the fork separated (it was glued to prevent the tip of the carbon steerer from being crushed by the stem) and I took it back to my LBS to have it reglued. For reasons I cannot recall now, I had to leave the fork at the LBS for about a week or so, which left me no option but to re-install the original steel fork. I did that, and on my next morning commute to work, when I reached a stretch of road that had several large ruts in the pavement that always made me nervous because I felt they wanted to catch my tire and throw me off the bike, I braced myself as usual to ride over them. To my greatest amazement, I rode over them and didn't feel a thing. I mean, all of a sudden it was as if I had suspension on my bike. No sense that the ruts were trying to throw me off the bike, no jarring as I rode over them. I couldn't believe it. Needless to say, I left the steel fork on the bike and rode it like that until I sold it when I bought my first Rivendell bike. The fit and position of the Gunnar were just wrong for me, but I loved how it rode with its steel fork better than my way more expensive Specialized Roubaix. That one I sold after I fully understood that there was no way I was going to ever be able to ride it with any semblance of comfort after I had switched to the Rivendell fit. So, if I was able to get an identical carbon frame to any of my Rivendells, I'd still prefer the steel ride. If I was going to go custom, however, I'd consider a Ti frame. I don't know if there are Ti forks or how they ride, but most likely I'd put a steel fork. On the other hand, between a custom lugged steel frame and a regular welded Ti frame, I'd think I'd end up going for the steel lugged frame. That is, assuming I found a custom builder that gave me the option... :-) The same experience happened to me years ago when living in Venezuela. I had an aluminum Titus dual suspension frame that rode wonderfully, but fear of riding it on the street made me get a cheaper hard tail. Unknowingly to me at the time, I found a great deal on a Jamis Dragon hardtail steel frame and proceeded to build it. In case you haven't guessed it, the bike I ended loving more for its ride was the steel hardtail (with tubeless tires) instead of the fancier dual suspension bike (also with tubeless tires). So I learned my lesson twice: steel bikes ride like no other bikes for me. René -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
I agree with Steve, and share his wholehearted disinterest in CF. Riding a bike, for me, has nothing to do with eking out every milligram of performance. A customer lady asked me last week if I was a racer. My response was an entirely unplanned and unrehearsed: Nope, I ride my bike for transportation, recreation, and adventure. I think that about sums it up. Because these endeavors usually don't benefit much, if any, from a couple pounds either way, CF holds no appeal for me. If it happens someday that CF frames become as tough and versatile and inexpensive as a Surly Cross-Check, I might reconsider, but then again, why bother? On Monday, July 2, 2012 3:02:53 PM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote: On Mon, 2012-07-02 at 12:59 -0700, Garth wrote: I wonder if everyone had the choice of their favorite Riv frame with the exact same dimensions, in both steel and CF for about the same price which would you choose ? Steel, without question. I have no interest whatever in carbon fiber. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/V1NKX4RMFVkJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
I hear ya Patrick and don't disagree to a point although the reality is that on a steep hill an old, discouraged rider is going to shift down a cog or two on his 23-28 pound Rando style bike because he has a triple up front and sensibly light wheels and tires for his weight and smoothly pedal right up. Gearing trumps weight any dayIMHO. I'm talking about a much narrower range and comparing low 20's to low 30 pound bicycles which is where most comparisons are common. I'm also assuming the same position on the bike and I think a newer lightweight carbon or aluminum race bike is about 21+ pounds loaded up with water etc. and a similar Rivendell might weigh around 26+ pounds. I just don't think six pounds is a make it or break it deal on a casual club ride. For actual racing where milliseconds count you could certainly argue the weight issue. As for hanging onto a fast group that won't wait for meI'd rather ride alone or with folks who will slow the pace than change my ride to one that is less durable or comfortable.or maybe just get an electric motor and smoke them all but then I guess that's using high tech in the other direction to gain an advantage. ; ) On Saturday, June 30, 2012 3:06:05 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote: Believe me, an old, tired, discouraged rider climbing a steepish, longish hill on an 18 lb bike with light wheels is going to feel that things are very different compared to when said old, tired, discouraged rider grinds up the same hill (in the heat, against the wind) on a 37 lb bike with wheels made from 800 gram rims and 800 gram tires! Hell, even Jan Heine looks for ways to save weight. Patrick it's not (all) about the rider Moore who would love a 16 lb fixie gofast. (Only 2 lb away !!) On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 1:48 PM, charlie wrote: I still don't get the point of a 16 pound bicycle and why many think them to be significantly 'faster'.. without a rider pedaling them they just sit there leaning against a wall going nowhere fast. -- Push back against the age as hard as it pushes against you. Flannery O'Connor - Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW http://resumespecialties.com/index.html - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/FcQJJ1rveiwJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
Right. This illustrates my point. The reviewer of the article seems to visualize cycling as this great multi-faceted thing, but the subset of it called road-riding is not allowed to have a 31-pound bike. That's where I disagree. Doug's fully satisfying ride (described below) should be called a road ride. The reviewer doesn't say, for me, road-riding performance means lighter weight... He says, the notion of a 31-pound 'performance' road bike is ridiculous. Given his position as reviewer, that assertion is presumptuous, trying to tell me, the reader, what road bike performance really means. He even says that it is worthy of ridicule to attempt to define road-riding differently with an over-30-pound bike. I'm guessing that this presumption and the commonality of it is at least part of what lead to Just Ride. -Jim W. -Original Message- From: dougP dougpn...@cox.net Sent: Jun 28, 2012 9:04 AM To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Subject: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride. Performance is in the mind of rider. For me, my way-over-30 lb Atlantis (I'd weigh it but I'm too lazy to drag the scale downstairs) performs just fine for what I'm doing. Funny story: did a tour recently (totally cush affair: lodging, luggage transported, etc) where riders on typical MCRBs complained about poor road surfaces, steep hills, sore hands, stiff necks, etc. Most of the group was of a certain age (or older) with the disposable income to buy whatever bike they desire. My trusty Atlantis with 40 mm tires dealt nicely with the conditions, and I even bagged a few bonus hills that stumped the compact double crew. They teased me about my rack but were looking at my reflector disappear up the hill. Never forget: The older you get, the faster you were... dougP On Jun 28, 8:18 am, RJM crccpadu...@gmail.com wrote: Ah, performance, such a weird thing to call a bicycle, especially when any performance is directly attributed to the person and not the equipment. I know when I ride my bike I have a fun time and come away without needing to take the next couple of days off due to back, neck, wrist ache, that is about all the performance I can handle. On Thursday, June 28, 2012 10:07:23 AM UTC-5, James Warren wrote: Grant writes a book to promote something to counteract a prevailing mentality. The reviewer's review itself has one sentence that shows how pervasive that mentality is. The reviewer generally responds positively to Grant's book and offers the following as constructive criticism: mentioning a couple of Grant's points with which he disagrees, the reviewer writes, I also think the notion of a 31-pound “performance” road bike (that’s how much his personal bike weighs) is ridiculous. This tells me that the reviewer has not really gotten the point. I know the word performance is in quotes, so I'm not sure how he is defining performance. But the phrase road bike is not in quotes. The reviewer adheres to the idea that one's road ride can be only be high-performance when lightness and acceleration are the highest goals. Elsewhere in the article, the reviewer says that cycling should be much more. But he himself can't allow the thing called road riding to incorporate cycling's other joys. That's a bummer. -Jim W. -Original Message- From: Steven Frederick Sent: Jun 28, 2012 4:38 AM To: rbw-owners-bun. Subject: [RBW] Review of Just Ride. From none other than BIKE magazine, one of the best mtb mags. out there... http://www.bikemag.com/news/reviewed-just-ride/ Steve -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
I agree with you and it is an attitude that becomes very apparent when you show up to a group road ride on a steel framed/racked and bagged/fat tired bike. You think you are riding with us on that?? On Thursday, June 28, 2012 11:33:26 AM UTC-5, James Warren wrote: Right. This illustrates my point. The reviewer of the article seems to visualize cycling as this great multi-faceted thing, but the subset of it called road-riding is not allowed to have a 31-pound bike. That's where I disagree. Doug's fully satisfying ride (described below) should be called a road ride. The reviewer doesn't say, for me, road-riding performance means lighter weight... He says, the notion of a 31-pound 'performance' road bike is ridiculous. Given his position as reviewer, that assertion is presumptuous, trying to tell me, the reader, what road bike performance really means. He even says that it is worthy of ridicule to attempt to define road-riding differently with an over-30-pound bike. I'm guessing that this presumption and the commonality of it is at least part of what lead to Just Ride. -Jim W. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/bV0gMI1jNcIJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
Never forget: The older you get, the faster you were.. AND..You're older now than you've ever been. . On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 12:04 PM, dougP dougpn...@cox.net wrote: Performance is in the mind of rider. For me, my way-over-30 lb Atlantis (I'd weigh it but I'm too lazy to drag the scale downstairs) performs just fine for what I'm doing. Funny story: did a tour recently (totally cush affair: lodging, luggage transported, etc) where riders on typical MCRBs complained about poor road surfaces, steep hills, sore hands, stiff necks, etc. Most of the group was of a certain age (or older) with the disposable income to buy whatever bike they desire. My trusty Atlantis with 40 mm tires dealt nicely with the conditions, and I even bagged a few bonus hills that stumped the compact double crew. They teased me about my rack but were looking at my reflector disappear up the hill. Never forget: The older you get, the faster you were... dougP On Jun 28, 8:18 am, RJM crccpadu...@gmail.com wrote: Ah, performance, such a weird thing to call a bicycle, especially when any performance is directly attributed to the person and not the equipment. I know when I ride my bike I have a fun time and come away without needing to take the next couple of days off due to back, neck, wrist ache, that is about all the performance I can handle. On Thursday, June 28, 2012 10:07:23 AM UTC-5, James Warren wrote: Grant writes a book to promote something to counteract a prevailing mentality. The reviewer's review itself has one sentence that shows how pervasive that mentality is. The reviewer generally responds positively to Grant's book and offers the following as constructive criticism: mentioning a couple of Grant's points with which he disagrees, the reviewer writes, I also think the notion of a 31-pound “performance” road bike (that’s how much his personal bike weighs) is ridiculous. This tells me that the reviewer has not really gotten the point. I know the word performance is in quotes, so I'm not sure how he is defining performance. But the phrase road bike is not in quotes. The reviewer adheres to the idea that one's road ride can be only be high-performance when lightness and acceleration are the highest goals. Elsewhere in the article, the reviewer says that cycling should be much more. But he himself can't allow the thing called road riding to incorporate cycling's other joys. That's a bummer. -Jim W. -Original Message- From: Steven Frederick Sent: Jun 28, 2012 4:38 AM To: rbw-owners-bun. Subject: [RBW] Review of Just Ride. From none other than BIKE magazine, one of the best mtb mags. out there... http://www.bikemag.com/news/reviewed-just-ride/ Steve -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com . To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
I don't think I've ever had that response, but last weekend supplied a pair of interesting comments on the Mariposa. I did a century out of Newburg, WI and on the first leg a much stronger rider on a rather pretty piece of plastic commented on how nice my bike looked as he went by me. I caught up with him at a rest stop and got a chance to look at his bike a bit more - the N logo was very discrete and I'm still trying to remember what brand he said it was (I don't think it was spelled out anywhere on the bike.) At a later stop an older guy who had been chasing me for a while commented that I was getting along pretty good on that old bike. He was riding what looked to be an early 90's Trek - probably close to ten years older than my bike :) Fun ride and I never noticed the weight of my bike (unlike the weight of my person.) Mostly the stronger riders on organized rides seem to like the look of my bike even if they think of it as a bit of an anachronism. -Ken On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 11:43 AM, RJM crccpadu...@gmail.com wrote: I agree with you and it is an attitude that becomes very apparent when you show up to a group road ride on a steel framed/racked and bagged/fat tired bike. You think you are riding with us on that?? On Thursday, June 28, 2012 11:33:26 AM UTC-5, James Warren wrote: Right. This illustrates my point. The reviewer of the article seems to visualize cycling as this great multi-faceted thing, but the subset of it called road-riding is not allowed to have a 31-pound bike. That's where I disagree. Doug's fully satisfying ride (described below) should be called a road ride. The reviewer doesn't say, for me, road-riding performance means lighter weight... He says, the notion of a 31-pound 'performance' road bike is ridiculous. Given his position as reviewer, that assertion is presumptuous, trying to tell me, the reader, what road bike performance really means. He even says that it is worthy of ridicule to attempt to define road-riding differently with an over-30-pound bike. I'm guessing that this presumption and the commonality of it is at least part of what lead to Just Ride. -Jim W. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/bV0gMI1jNcIJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
IMO, one of the hardest things to do is acknowledge that you've fallen prey to the marketing claims floating around so pervasively and realize you've been spending your money on the wrong items. Or just that your frame of reference has been built on invalid premises. Especially when you are confronted head-on by someone saying so... You somehow need to get to ride one of these alternative machines to discover wordlessly how wrong you've been... In this case, riding is believing... :-) Then again, as we use to say in Venezuela, (loosely translated from Spanish) Likes and colors know no authors. René -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Review of Just Ride.
Funny, just had a discussion with a roadie friend here at work who insisted he could not get a Rodeo over a CAAD 10 because he would feel the extra 2-3lbs going up a hill. I have argued with him for years about this stuff but he has drank the kool aid on the need for lightweight, CF components to improve his performance. He does do some amatuer races so I tried to convince him to get a SH then to be comfortable the rest of the time but my words are lost, unfortunately. On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 1:33 PM, René Sterental orthie...@gmail.com wrote: IMO, one of the hardest things to do is acknowledge that you've fallen prey to the marketing claims floating around so pervasively and realize you've been spending your money on the wrong items. Or just that your frame of reference has been built on invalid premises. Especially when you are confronted head-on by someone saying so... You somehow need to get to ride one of these alternative machines to discover wordlessly how wrong you've been... In this case, riding is believing... :-) Then again, as we use to say in Venezuela, (loosely translated from Spanish) Likes and colors know no authors. René -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
