Re: Future of Naiad
Looks like Duncan's corner has made a come back! I love his work, he's got to be one of the most hands-on developer in the industry. On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Luc-Eric Rousseau luceri...@gmail.comwrote: ho right, thanks Outlook ; ) Le 2013-08-15 10:21, Rob Chapman tekano@gmail.com a écrit : here is the text link Luc Eric posted (which works without a login) http://area.autodesk.com/Anaheim2013 here is where it was actually linked to in html - and *does* require a login https://connect.autodesk.com/owa/redir.aspx?C=bK-GRTdfLUiXi2n0RgTMcYqHgi28bNAIpkHDsL63ZwuMDdYAFdDXoVTVWcZLNdA1fgkawqvC1gw.URL=http%3a%2f%2farea.autodesk.com%2fAnaheim2013 which looks like someones computer at autodesk... do you have the password for this Luc? ;) On 15 August 2013 15:44, Adam Seeley adam_see...@yahoo.com wrote: Try to Copy paste the link instead of clicking on it... A. - Yoyo Digital Ltd. 07956 976 245 http://www.linkedin.com/in/adamseeleyuk https://vimeo.com/adamseeley From: Luc-Eric Rousseau luceri...@gmail.com To: Morten Bartholdy x...@colorshopvfx.dk; softimage@listproc.autodesk.com softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Sent: Thursday, 15 August 2013, 14:38 Subject: Re: Future of Naiad i can watch those video even on my ipad without logging in? On Thursday, August 15, 2013, Morten Bartholdy wrote: Thanks for posting Luc! Is AD ever going to get rid of the mega annoying requirement for logging in to The Area..?? Morten Den 14. august 2013 kl. 21:33 skrev Luc-Eric Rousseau luceri...@gmail.com: The siggraph user group meeting videos were posted. The one with bifrost is called Behind the curtain of RD http://area.autodesk.com/Anaheim2013
Re: Future of Naiad
It's an strategic moment right now and I can only speculate but one thing is clear, the companies that own their own destiny and the product is their core business are safe bet. The rest... Lets see in 2 years. Jb I guess I am trying to get my own roadmap sorted for the future as many of us do from time to time, it seems it is an amazing time for a divergence and abundance of technology but also somewhat confusing as to where some older technology fits (or more precisely will fit) into the grander scheme. Sorry for the long winded post, very much thinking out loud at this point ; ) N From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] on behalf of Raffaele Fragapane [raffsxsil...@googlemail.com] Sent: 15 August 2013 10:40 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad It might be worth figuring out what you want out of your choices. If you want a mature solution with well integrated production tested solvers, a rendering engine with inifnite licenses that is very highly tailored to scale massively with those simulations, you won't beat Houdini, no matter what rendering engine you tack on in another package. Bifrost is an interesting departure from shoving things into the host and obscuring them for Autodesk, and it relies on relatively fresh or refreshed (but not untested or immature) libraries/frameworks, and it seems to be wanting to attempt a certain degree of generically approaching some problems, plus it's likely, when it will be out, to have some very good solvers. You are betting on months to a year or more away though (assuming it will even be available and viable in 2015 and patched in an eventual 2015.5). If you can wait for that long, wait, but if you want things sooner than that Houdini already has some great solvers, now has solid OpenVDB integration, and it's impossible to beat Mantra's scaling economically, and hard to beat it in other regards too. You only need one license of Houdini to begin with, and whether Naiad will blow it out of the water or not, it's unlikely to be a waste of money. On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 8:43 AM, Nick Angus n...@altvfx.com wrote: Interesting, thanks Luc-Eric, it certainly looks very tied in to Maya at this stage, although I am sure it is mostly a front end. Much in the way Pixomondo integrated Naiad into Max, although deeper by the looks of all the adaptive stuff. I imagine this level of integration would be a bit trickier in Soft due to the older school nature of the IO. I must admit at this point I am pretty tempted to start looking into Houdini, even just for fluids it could be good value, particularly with Arnold integration. I don’t want to bash on Maya any more than necessary, but if I am going to pick a partner for Soft to extend it into areas of simulation that it struggles in I don’t think I will we going down the Maya path… N From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Luc-Eric Rousseau Sent: Thursday, 15 August 2013 5:34 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad The siggraph user group meeting videos were posted. The one with bifrost is called Behind the curtain of RD http://area.autodesk.com/Anaheim2013 -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!
Re: Future of Naiad
Thanks for posting Luc! Is AD ever going to get rid of the mega annoying requirement for logging in to The Area..?? Morten Den 14. august 2013 kl. 21:33 skrev Luc-Eric Rousseau luceri...@gmail.com: The siggraph user group meeting videos were posted. The one with bifrost is called Behind the curtain of RD http://area.autodesk.com/Anaheim2013 https://connect.autodesk.com/owa/redir.aspx?C=bK-GRTdfLUiXi2n0RgTMcYqHgi28bNAIpkHDsL63ZwuMDdYAFdDXoVTVWcZLNdA1fgkawqvC1gw.URL=http%3a%2f%2farea.autodesk.com%2fAnaheim2013
Re: Future of Naiad
Is AD ever going to get rid of the mega annoying requirement for logging in to The Area..?? Haha, that is exactly what kept me away from watching the video. Too lazy to even try to remember my login, and I figured reading the comments in this thread would be enough :)
RE: Future of Naiad
You don’t have to login to watch these videos. Most (if not all) of the movies from events can be viewed without logging in. Getting to stuff, like tutorials and downloads, then logging in is required. G From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Volkmann Sent: 15 August 2013 08:43 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad Is AD ever going to get rid of the mega annoying requirement for logging in to The Area..?? Haha, that is exactly what kept me away from watching the video. Too lazy to even try to remember my login, and I figured reading the comments in this thread would be enough :) attachment: winmail.dat
RE: Future of Naiad
Oh, you are right. But the link that was provided required a login for whatever reason Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.com hat am 15. August 2013 um 11:01 geschrieben: You don’t have to login to watch these videos. Most (if not all) of the movies from events can be viewed without logging in. Getting to stuff, like tutorials and downloads, then logging in is required. G From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Volkmann Sent: 15 August 2013 08:43 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad Is AD ever going to get rid of the mega annoying requirement for logging in to The Area..?? Haha, that is exactly what kept me away from watching the video. Too lazy to even try to remember my login, and I figured reading the comments in this thread would be enough :) - Autodesk Limited Registered Office: One Discovery Place, Columbus Drive, Farnborough, Hampshire GU14 0NZ Registered in England and Wales, No. 1839239
Re: Future of Naiad
i can watch those video even on my ipad without logging in?
On Thursday, August 15, 2013, Morten Bartholdy wrote:
**
Thanks for posting Luc!
Is AD ever going to get rid of the mega annoying requirement for logging
in to The Area..??
Morten
Den 14. august 2013 kl. 21:33 skrev Luc-Eric Rousseau
luceri...@gmail.comjavascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'luceri...@gmail.com');:
The siggraph user group meeting videos were posted. The one with
bifrost is called Behind the curtain of RD
http://area.autodesk.com/Anaheim2013https://connect.autodesk.com/owa/redir.aspx?C=bK-GRTdfLUiXi2n0RgTMcYqHgi28bNAIpkHDsL63ZwuMDdYAFdDXoVTVWcZLNdA1fgkawqvC1gw.URL=http%3a%2f%2farea.autodesk.com%2fAnaheim2013
Re: Future of Naiad
here is the text link Luc Eric posted (which works without a login) http://area.autodesk.com/Anaheim2013 here is where it was actually linked to in html - and *does* require a login https://connect.autodesk.com/owa/redir.aspx?C=bK-GRTdfLUiXi2n0RgTMcYqHgi28bNAIpkHDsL63ZwuMDdYAFdDXoVTVWcZLNdA1fgkawqvC1gw.URL=http%3a%2f%2farea.autodesk.com%2fAnaheim2013 which looks like someones computer at autodesk... do you have the password for this Luc? ;) On 15 August 2013 15:44, Adam Seeley adam_see...@yahoo.com wrote: Try to Copy paste the link instead of clicking on it... A. - Yoyo Digital Ltd. 07956 976 245 http://www.linkedin.com/in/adamseeleyuk https://vimeo.com/adamseeley From: Luc-Eric Rousseau luceri...@gmail.com To: Morten Bartholdy x...@colorshopvfx.dk; softimage@listproc.autodesk.com softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Sent: Thursday, 15 August 2013, 14:38 Subject: Re: Future of Naiad i can watch those video even on my ipad without logging in? On Thursday, August 15, 2013, Morten Bartholdy wrote: Thanks for posting Luc! Is AD ever going to get rid of the mega annoying requirement for logging in to The Area..?? Morten Den 14. august 2013 kl. 21:33 skrev Luc-Eric Rousseau luceri...@gmail.com: The siggraph user group meeting videos were posted. The one with bifrost is called Behind the curtain of RD http://area.autodesk.com/Anaheim2013
Re: Future of Naiad
ho right, thanks Outlook ; ) Le 2013-08-15 10:21, Rob Chapman tekano@gmail.com a écrit : here is the text link Luc Eric posted (which works without a login) http://area.autodesk.com/Anaheim2013 here is where it was actually linked to in html - and *does* require a login https://connect.autodesk.com/owa/redir.aspx?C=bK-GRTdfLUiXi2n0RgTMcYqHgi28bNAIpkHDsL63ZwuMDdYAFdDXoVTVWcZLNdA1fgkawqvC1gw.URL=http%3a%2f%2farea.autodesk.com%2fAnaheim2013 which looks like someones computer at autodesk... do you have the password for this Luc? ;) On 15 August 2013 15:44, Adam Seeley adam_see...@yahoo.com wrote: Try to Copy paste the link instead of clicking on it... A. - Yoyo Digital Ltd. 07956 976 245 http://www.linkedin.com/in/adamseeleyuk https://vimeo.com/adamseeley From: Luc-Eric Rousseau luceri...@gmail.com To: Morten Bartholdy x...@colorshopvfx.dk; softimage@listproc.autodesk.com softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Sent: Thursday, 15 August 2013, 14:38 Subject: Re: Future of Naiad i can watch those video even on my ipad without logging in? On Thursday, August 15, 2013, Morten Bartholdy wrote: Thanks for posting Luc! Is AD ever going to get rid of the mega annoying requirement for logging in to The Area..?? Morten Den 14. august 2013 kl. 21:33 skrev Luc-Eric Rousseau luceri...@gmail.com: The siggraph user group meeting videos were posted. The one with bifrost is called Behind the curtain of RD http://area.autodesk.com/Anaheim2013
Re: Future of Naiad
The siggraph user group meeting videos were posted. The one with bifrost is called Behind the curtain of RD http://area.autodesk.com/Anaheim2013https://connect.autodesk.com/owa/redir.aspx?C=bK-GRTdfLUiXi2n0RgTMcYqHgi28bNAIpkHDsL63ZwuMDdYAFdDXoVTVWcZLNdA1fgkawqvC1gw.URL=http%3a%2f%2farea.autodesk.com%2fAnaheim2013
RE: Future of Naiad
Interesting, thanks Luc-Eric, it certainly looks very tied in to Maya at this stage, although I am sure it is mostly a front end. Much in the way Pixomondo integrated Naiad into Max, although deeper by the looks of all the adaptive stuff. I imagine this level of integration would be a bit trickier in Soft due to the older school nature of the IO. I must admit at this point I am pretty tempted to start looking into Houdini, even just for fluids it could be good value, particularly with Arnold integration. I don't want to bash on Maya any more than necessary, but if I am going to pick a partner for Soft to extend it into areas of simulation that it struggles in I don't think I will we going down the Maya path... N From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Luc-Eric Rousseau Sent: Thursday, 15 August 2013 5:34 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad The siggraph user group meeting videos were posted. The one with bifrost is called Behind the curtain of RD http://area.autodesk.com/Anaheim2013https://connect.autodesk.com/owa/redir.aspx?C=bK-GRTdfLUiXi2n0RgTMcYqHgi28bNAIpkHDsL63ZwuMDdYAFdDXoVTVWcZLNdA1fgkawqvC1gw.URL=http%3a%2f%2farea.autodesk.com%2fAnaheim2013
Re: Future of Naiad
It might be worth figuring out what you want out of your choices. If you want a mature solution with well integrated production tested solvers, a rendering engine with inifnite licenses that is very highly tailored to scale massively with those simulations, you won't beat Houdini, no matter what rendering engine you tack on in another package. Bifrost is an interesting departure from shoving things into the host and obscuring them for Autodesk, and it relies on relatively fresh or refreshed (but not untested or immature) libraries/frameworks, and it seems to be wanting to attempt a certain degree of generically approaching some problems, plus it's likely, when it will be out, to have some very good solvers. You are betting on months to a year or more away though (assuming it will even be available and viable in 2015 and patched in an eventual 2015.5). If you can wait for that long, wait, but if you want things sooner than that Houdini already has some great solvers, now has solid OpenVDB integration, and it's impossible to beat Mantra's scaling economically, and hard to beat it in other regards too. You only need one license of Houdini to begin with, and whether Naiad will blow it out of the water or not, it's unlikely to be a waste of money. On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 8:43 AM, Nick Angus n...@altvfx.com wrote: Interesting, thanks Luc-Eric, it certainly looks very tied in to Maya at this stage, although I am sure it is mostly a front end. Much in the way Pixomondo integrated Naiad into Max, although deeper by the looks of all the adaptive stuff. I imagine this level of integration would be a bit trickier in Soft due to the older school nature of the IO. ** ** I must admit at this point I am pretty tempted to start looking into Houdini, even just for fluids it could be good value, particularly with Arnold integration. I don’t want to bash on Maya any more than necessary, but if I am going to pick a partner for Soft to extend it into areas of simulation that it struggles in I don’t think I will we going down the Maya path… ** ** N ** ** *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Luc-Eric Rousseau *Sent:* Thursday, 15 August 2013 5:34 AM *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Re: Future of Naiad ** ** The siggraph user group meeting videos were posted. The one with bifrost is called Behind the curtain of RD http://area.autodesk.com/Anaheim2013https://connect.autodesk.com/owa/redir.aspx?C=bK-GRTdfLUiXi2n0RgTMcYqHgi28bNAIpkHDsL63ZwuMDdYAFdDXoVTVWcZLNdA1fgkawqvC1gw.URL=http%3a%2f%2farea.autodesk.com%2fAnaheim2013 -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!
RE: Future of Naiad
Very well put as always Raf! I just get the feeling for the simulation/assembly/final integration scenario I am sitting around waiting for things while many people have simply moved on... A good example is probably found in some of the top Naiad users, who simply walked away and within weeks were posting test videos of equal quality from Houdini. They are maybe not the best example of the broader population as they are already very technical minded individuals who are used to working in the 'undocumented zone'. I don't harbour any particular resentment to Autodesk over this matter, as Naiad was not a very well supported product and I think Marcus found himself swamped with admin and other tasks which probably kept him away from his core strengths. I guess I do fear somewhat for Softs future as more of this tech gets pushed toward Maya, and even with Fabric Engine making the whole thing portable to my mind starts to pull the rug from under Soft. Combine that with ageing IO and it really is not a pretty picture past the next year or so. The fact that Soft makes no appearance in any of the RD videos probably shouldn't be read into to much, but you would have to have your head buried pretty deeply to not let your mind wander onto the subject a little... I don't intend to push this thread into another Autodesk bashing exercise so please anyone refrain from going down that well trodden path. I guess I am trying to get my own roadmap sorted for the future as many of us do from time to time, it seems it is an amazing time for a divergence and abundance of technology but also somewhat confusing as to where some older technology fits (or more precisely will fit) into the grander scheme. Sorry for the long winded post, very much thinking out loud at this point ; ) N From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] on behalf of Raffaele Fragapane [raffsxsil...@googlemail.com] Sent: 15 August 2013 10:40 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad It might be worth figuring out what you want out of your choices. If you want a mature solution with well integrated production tested solvers, a rendering engine with inifnite licenses that is very highly tailored to scale massively with those simulations, you won't beat Houdini, no matter what rendering engine you tack on in another package. Bifrost is an interesting departure from shoving things into the host and obscuring them for Autodesk, and it relies on relatively fresh or refreshed (but not untested or immature) libraries/frameworks, and it seems to be wanting to attempt a certain degree of generically approaching some problems, plus it's likely, when it will be out, to have some very good solvers. You are betting on months to a year or more away though (assuming it will even be available and viable in 2015 and patched in an eventual 2015.5). If you can wait for that long, wait, but if you want things sooner than that Houdini already has some great solvers, now has solid OpenVDB integration, and it's impossible to beat Mantra's scaling economically, and hard to beat it in other regards too. You only need one license of Houdini to begin with, and whether Naiad will blow it out of the water or not, it's unlikely to be a waste of money. On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 8:43 AM, Nick Angus n...@altvfx.commailto:n...@altvfx.com wrote: Interesting, thanks Luc-Eric, it certainly looks very tied in to Maya at this stage, although I am sure it is mostly a front end. Much in the way Pixomondo integrated Naiad into Max, although deeper by the looks of all the adaptive stuff. I imagine this level of integration would be a bit trickier in Soft due to the older school nature of the IO. I must admit at this point I am pretty tempted to start looking into Houdini, even just for fluids it could be good value, particularly with Arnold integration. I don’t want to bash on Maya any more than necessary, but if I am going to pick a partner for Soft to extend it into areas of simulation that it struggles in I don’t think I will we going down the Maya path… N From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Luc-Eric Rousseau Sent: Thursday, 15 August 2013 5:34 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad The siggraph user group meeting videos were posted. The one with bifrost is called Behind the curtain of RD http://area.autodesk.com/Anaheim2013https://connect.autodesk.com/owa/redir.aspx?C=bK-GRTdfLUiXi2n0RgTMcYqHgi28bNAIpkHDsL63ZwuMDdYAFdDXoVTVWcZLNdA1fgkawqvC1gw.URL=http%3a%2f%2farea.autodesk.com%2fAnaheim2013 -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!
Re: Future of Naiad
Or Clarisse?They currently have a special summer sale atm ($1500.- instead of $7400.- for 1 license and 5 render nodes, incl. support).Likewise, anybody used Katana?On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 11:52 PM, Sebastian Kowalski l...@sekow.com wrote: do I hear fabric engine? Am 31.07.2013 um 00:36 schrieb Matt Lind ml...@carbinestudios.com: I would question whether a one-size fits all application is relevant anymore. The current 3 applications were designed and developed in the 1990s, but the industry has evolved quite a bit since then. Even Softimage’s ‘Sumatra’ propaganda advertised it as a product for ‘the next ten years’. We’re well beyond that now. Mobile, 3d printing, interactive spaces, etc.. have all emerged and need 3d content. While Autodesk’s big 3 can be used, they aren’t necessarily tailored for those markets. The big 3 are strongly rooted in film/video and some games. What’s needed to today is a collective rethink. I think what’s needed today is a host application to act as a point of assembly and layout. It performs the basic tasks of scene construction and metadata packaging, but from that point on acts as a hub for other applications whether they be commercial or privately developed. While smaller studios and one-man efforts would probably prefer an integrated solution like they are available today, as data scales up it will be difficult to continue that paradigm and still be competitive over the long term. Is Autodesk up to the task? It’ll probably be years before we know the answer. Matt From:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com]On Behalf OfAndy Moorer Sent:Tuesday, July 30, 2013 2:42 PMTo:softimage@listproc.autodesk.comSubject:Re: Future of Naiad I would be totally open to a new application from AD if it takes some of the best ideas of the 3 apps. Heck call it Maya thats fine. My problem is however that AD does not seem to have a pattern of making choices based on ensuring the best results for their customers. If their next-gen app suits their needs and tosses what makes a tool like softimage brilliant they're wasting their time developing. Does AD actually have the culture and good sense to allow their no doubt good and highly skilled devs to really conceptualize and create a "best of all three" next generation DCC? Without a bunch of suits getting involved and trying to shape it towards their idea of what will make the most money? I suspect AD is suffering from terminal "droids in suits" syndrome. On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 12:45 PM, Kris Rivel krisri...@gmail.com wrote: This is a depressing thread! After going through Graham's email...hoping to see one mention of Soft...and finding nothing...I'm left feeling pretty bummed out. This idea that Autodesk can market one app to one type of industry vs. the other is ridiculous. Studios and artists pick what they know, or have available, not what some corporation "says" fits the bill. All three products have proven themselves just fine doing games, movies and commercials. Its funny though. The past few weeks I've spoken to so many "converted" or multi-app artists that use maya, max, c4d or some combo because they can't get enough Soft work. BUT...the funny thing is that each and everyone complains how frustrating it is when they know they could do it in Soft so much easier. Its hystericaland sad at the same time. Its the little engine that could and "did" but ultimately was pushed aside because of bad marketing, buy-outs and corporate BS. Expecting them to keep all three alive, well and generally the same though is probably not reality and if they are planning on that...well...they're going to lose the entire ME industry because others are creeping up with some very cool stuff. I personally am leaning towards Houdini and other niche apps. The only thing keeping everyone paying that damn maintenance fee to get upgraded is because its still the industry default and like photoshop...unavoidable...but only for now. If I was Autodesk, I would focus on something truly next gen. Something cloud and subscription based that combines the best of all 3 in a whole new way..."one application to rule them all". Kris On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 9:32 AM, Scott Lange sc...@turbulenceffects.com wrote: LOL-Original Message-From:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Eric LampiSent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 10:56 PM To:softimage@listproc.autodesk.comSubject: Re: Future of Naiad "No PR department has, in history, ever been able to prevent a cluster oftwats from speculating wildly and working themselves into nerd-rage. If one was ever invented it would have to be either an armed force with right toextreme prejudice in applying force, or an act of God, or possibly both."This belongs on a plaque somewhere.EricFreelance 3D and VFX animator
Re: Future of Naiad
This is a depressing thread! After going through Graham's email...hoping to see one mention of Soft...and finding nothing...I'm left feeling pretty bummed out. This idea that Autodesk can market one app to one type of industry vs. the other is ridiculous. Studios and artists pick what they know, or have available, not what some corporation says fits the bill. All three products have proven themselves just fine doing games, movies and commercials. Its funny though. The past few weeks I've spoken to so many converted or multi-app artists that use maya, max, c4d or some combo because they can't get enough Soft work. BUT...the funny thing is that each and everyone complains how frustrating it is when they know they could do it in Soft so much easier. Its hystericaland sad at the same time. Its the little engine that could and did but ultimately was pushed aside because of bad marketing, buy-outs and corporate BS. Expecting them to keep all three alive, well and generally the same though is probably not reality and if they are planning on that...well...they're going to lose the entire ME industry because others are creeping up with some very cool stuff. I personally am leaning towards Houdini and other niche apps. The only thing keeping everyone paying that damn maintenance fee to get upgraded is because its still the industry default and like photoshop...unavoidable...but only for now. If I was Autodesk, I would focus on something truly next gen. Something cloud and subscription based that combines the best of all 3 in a whole new way...one application to rule them all. Kris On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 9:32 AM, Scott Lange sc...@turbulenceffects.comwrote: LOL -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Eric Lampi Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 10:56 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad No PR department has, in history, ever been able to prevent a cluster of twats from speculating wildly and working themselves into nerd-rage. If one was ever invented it would have to be either an armed force with right to extreme prejudice in applying force, or an act of God, or possibly both. This belongs on a plaque somewhere. Eric Freelance 3D and VFX animator http://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 8:40 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: No PR department has, in history, ever been able to prevent a cluster of twats from speculating wildly and working themselves into nerd-rage. If one was ever invented it would have to be either an armed force with right to extreme prejudice in applying force, or an act of God, or possibly both. Mind, AD is often cryptic and confused in comm beyond what the usual within the quarter corporate rule would excuse, that we can all agree on, but no matter the amount of information that gets rolled out, people will always speculate and work things into re-inforcing whatever scenario they want to believe. On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 10:19 AM, Steven Caron car...@gmail.com wrote: they, you, need a better PR department. it is simple, don't give us reason to speculate so wildly. *written with my thumbs On Jul 24, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.com wrote: I'm saying nothing more, though if anyone wants to pvt me, then feel free. -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!
Re: Future of Naiad
I would be totally open to a new application from AD if it takes some of the best ideas of the 3 apps. Heck call it Maya thats fine. My problem is however that AD does not seem to have a pattern of making choices based on ensuring the best results for their customers. If their next-gen app suits their needs and tosses what makes a tool like softimage brilliant they're wasting their time developing. Does AD actually have the culture and good sense to allow their no doubt good and highly skilled devs to really conceptualize and create a best of all three next generation DCC? Without a bunch of suits getting involved and trying to shape it towards their idea of what will make the most money? I suspect AD is suffering from terminal droids in suits syndrome. On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 12:45 PM, Kris Rivel krisri...@gmail.com wrote: This is a depressing thread! After going through Graham's email...hoping to see one mention of Soft...and finding nothing...I'm left feeling pretty bummed out. This idea that Autodesk can market one app to one type of industry vs. the other is ridiculous. Studios and artists pick what they know, or have available, not what some corporation says fits the bill. All three products have proven themselves just fine doing games, movies and commercials. Its funny though. The past few weeks I've spoken to so many converted or multi-app artists that use maya, max, c4d or some combo because they can't get enough Soft work. BUT...the funny thing is that each and everyone complains how frustrating it is when they know they could do it in Soft so much easier. Its hystericaland sad at the same time. Its the little engine that could and did but ultimately was pushed aside because of bad marketing, buy-outs and corporate BS. Expecting them to keep all three alive, well and generally the same though is probably not reality and if they are planning on that...well...they're going to lose the entire ME industry because others are creeping up with some very cool stuff. I personally am leaning towards Houdini and other niche apps. The only thing keeping everyone paying that damn maintenance fee to get upgraded is because its still the industry default and like photoshop...unavoidable...but only for now. If I was Autodesk, I would focus on something truly next gen. Something cloud and subscription based that combines the best of all 3 in a whole new way...one application to rule them all. Kris On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 9:32 AM, Scott Lange sc...@turbulenceffects.comwrote: LOL -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Eric Lampi Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 10:56 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad No PR department has, in history, ever been able to prevent a cluster of twats from speculating wildly and working themselves into nerd-rage. If one was ever invented it would have to be either an armed force with right to extreme prejudice in applying force, or an act of God, or possibly both. This belongs on a plaque somewhere. Eric Freelance 3D and VFX animator http://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 8:40 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: No PR department has, in history, ever been able to prevent a cluster of twats from speculating wildly and working themselves into nerd-rage. If one was ever invented it would have to be either an armed force with right to extreme prejudice in applying force, or an act of God, or possibly both. Mind, AD is often cryptic and confused in comm beyond what the usual within the quarter corporate rule would excuse, that we can all agree on, but no matter the amount of information that gets rolled out, people will always speculate and work things into re-inforcing whatever scenario they want to believe. On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 10:19 AM, Steven Caron car...@gmail.com wrote: they, you, need a better PR department. it is simple, don't give us reason to speculate so wildly. *written with my thumbs On Jul 24, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.com wrote: I'm saying nothing more, though if anyone wants to pvt me, then feel free. -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!
RE: Future of Naiad
The interesting part was the small annoying things comment made by the 3DSMax product manager. Isn't that what we heard out of the Softimage camp about this time last year? Basically the decisions were made long ago, we're just now seeing it front and center instead of having to use the crystal ball. The choice to go with Maya over Softimage is probably related to the use of COM/OLE, ImageWare, and Mainsoftand perhaps a few other things which aren't as well known. It's not always about feature 'x' or plugin 'y' as you cite with user comments, but rather about which platform has the more solid foundation despite any number of holes in the walls or ceiling. Softimage is very functional out of the box for end users, but there are some isolated choke points for developers to do serious work with it. Some of which are related to the aforementioned. As for what lies ahead, I think former Softimage|3D users have an idea what to expect. Matt From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Kris Rivel Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 12:45 PM To: Softimage List Subject: Re: Future of Naiad This is a depressing thread! After going through Graham's email...hoping to see one mention of Soft...and finding nothing...I'm left feeling pretty bummed out. This idea that Autodesk can market one app to one type of industry vs. the other is ridiculous. Studios and artists pick what they know, or have available, not what some corporation says fits the bill. All three products have proven themselves just fine doing games, movies and commercials. Its funny though. The past few weeks I've spoken to so many converted or multi-app artists that use maya, max, c4d or some combo because they can't get enough Soft work. BUT...the funny thing is that each and everyone complains how frustrating it is when they know they could do it in Soft so much easier. Its hystericaland sad at the same time. Its the little engine that could and did but ultimately was pushed aside because of bad marketing, buy-outs and corporate BS. Expecting them to keep all three alive, well and generally the same though is probably not reality and if they are planning on that...well...they're going to lose the entire ME industry because others are creeping up with some very cool stuff. I personally am leaning towards Houdini and other niche apps. The only thing keeping everyone paying that damn maintenance fee to get upgraded is because its still the industry default and like photoshop...unavoidable...but only for now. If I was Autodesk, I would focus on something truly next gen. Something cloud and subscription based that combines the best of all 3 in a whole new way...one application to rule them all. Kris On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 9:32 AM, Scott Lange sc...@turbulenceffects.commailto:sc...@turbulenceffects.com wrote: LOL -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Eric Lampi Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 10:56 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad No PR department has, in history, ever been able to prevent a cluster of twats from speculating wildly and working themselves into nerd-rage. If one was ever invented it would have to be either an armed force with right to extreme prejudice in applying force, or an act of God, or possibly both. This belongs on a plaque somewhere. Eric Freelance 3D and VFX animator http://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 8:40 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.commailto:raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: No PR department has, in history, ever been able to prevent a cluster of twats from speculating wildly and working themselves into nerd-rage. If one was ever invented it would have to be either an armed force with right to extreme prejudice in applying force, or an act of God, or possibly both. Mind, AD is often cryptic and confused in comm beyond what the usual within the quarter corporate rule would excuse, that we can all agree on, but no matter the amount of information that gets rolled out, people will always speculate and work things into re-inforcing whatever scenario they want to believe. On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 10:19 AM, Steven Caron car...@gmail.commailto:car...@gmail.com wrote: they, you, need a better PR department. it is simple, don't give us reason to speculate so wildly. *written with my thumbs On Jul 24, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.commailto:graham.b...@autodesk.com wrote: I'm saying nothing more, though if anyone wants to pvt me, then feel free. -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!
RE: Future of Naiad
I would question whether a one-size fits all application is relevant anymore. The current 3 applications were designed and developed in the 1990s, but the industry has evolved quite a bit since then. Even Softimage's 'Sumatra' propaganda advertised it as a product for 'the next ten years'. We're well beyond that now. Mobile, 3d printing, interactive spaces, etc.. have all emerged and need 3d content. While Autodesk's big 3 can be used, they aren't necessarily tailored for those markets. The big 3 are strongly rooted in film/video and some games. What's needed to today is a collective rethink. I think what's needed today is a host application to act as a point of assembly and layout. It performs the basic tasks of scene construction and metadata packaging, but from that point on acts as a hub for other applications whether they be commercial or privately developed. While smaller studios and one-man efforts would probably prefer an integrated solution like they are available today, as data scales up it will be difficult to continue that paradigm and still be competitive over the long term. Is Autodesk up to the task? It'll probably be years before we know the answer. Matt From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Moorer Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 2:42 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad I would be totally open to a new application from AD if it takes some of the best ideas of the 3 apps. Heck call it Maya thats fine. My problem is however that AD does not seem to have a pattern of making choices based on ensuring the best results for their customers. If their next-gen app suits their needs and tosses what makes a tool like softimage brilliant they're wasting their time developing. Does AD actually have the culture and good sense to allow their no doubt good and highly skilled devs to really conceptualize and create a best of all three next generation DCC? Without a bunch of suits getting involved and trying to shape it towards their idea of what will make the most money? I suspect AD is suffering from terminal droids in suits syndrome. On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 12:45 PM, Kris Rivel krisri...@gmail.commailto:krisri...@gmail.com wrote: This is a depressing thread! After going through Graham's email...hoping to see one mention of Soft...and finding nothing...I'm left feeling pretty bummed out. This idea that Autodesk can market one app to one type of industry vs. the other is ridiculous. Studios and artists pick what they know, or have available, not what some corporation says fits the bill. All three products have proven themselves just fine doing games, movies and commercials. Its funny though. The past few weeks I've spoken to so many converted or multi-app artists that use maya, max, c4d or some combo because they can't get enough Soft work. BUT...the funny thing is that each and everyone complains how frustrating it is when they know they could do it in Soft so much easier. Its hystericaland sad at the same time. Its the little engine that could and did but ultimately was pushed aside because of bad marketing, buy-outs and corporate BS. Expecting them to keep all three alive, well and generally the same though is probably not reality and if they are planning on that...well...they're going to lose the entire ME industry because others are creeping up with some very cool stuff. I personally am leaning towards Houdini and other niche apps. The only thing keeping everyone paying that damn maintenance fee to get upgraded is because its still the industry default and like photoshop...unavoidable...but only for now. If I was Autodesk, I would focus on something truly next gen. Something cloud and subscription based that combines the best of all 3 in a whole new way...one application to rule them all. Kris On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 9:32 AM, Scott Lange sc...@turbulenceffects.commailto:sc...@turbulenceffects.com wrote: LOL -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Eric Lampi Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 10:56 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad No PR department has, in history, ever been able to prevent a cluster of twats from speculating wildly and working themselves into nerd-rage. If one was ever invented it would have to be either an armed force with right to extreme prejudice in applying force, or an act of God, or possibly both. This belongs on a plaque somewhere. Eric Freelance 3D and VFX animator http://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 8:40 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.commailto:raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: No PR
Re: Future of Naiad
Likewise, anybody used Katana? On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 11:52 PM, Sebastian Kowalski l...@sekow.com wrote: do I hear fabric engine? Am 31.07.2013 um 00:36 schrieb Matt Lind ml...@carbinestudios.com: I would question whether a one-size fits all application is relevant anymore. The current 3 applications were designed and developed in the 1990s, but the industry has evolved quite a bit since then. Even Softimage’s ‘Sumatra’ propaganda advertised it as a product for ‘the next ten years’. We’re well beyond that now. Mobile, 3d printing, interactive spaces, etc.. have all emerged and need 3d content. While Autodesk’s big 3 can be used, they aren’t necessarily tailored for those markets. The big 3 are strongly rooted in film/video and some games. What’s needed to today is a collective rethink. I think what’s needed today is a host application to act as a point of assembly and layout. It performs the basic tasks of scene construction and metadata packaging, but from that point on acts as a hub for other applications whether they be commercial or privately developed. While smaller studios and one-man efforts would probably prefer an integrated solution like they are available today, as data scales up it will be difficult to continue that paradigm and still be competitive over the long term. Is Autodesk up to the task? It’ll probably be years before we know the answer. Matt *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage- boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Andy Moorer *Sent:* Tuesday, July 30, 2013 2:42 PM *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Re: Future of Naiad ** ** I would be totally open to a new application from AD if it takes some of the best ideas of the 3 apps. Heck call it Maya thats fine. My problem is however that AD does not seem to have a pattern of making choices based on ensuring the best results for their customers. If their next-gen app suits their needs and tosses what makes a tool like softimage brilliant they're wasting their time developing. ** ** Does AD actually have the culture and good sense to allow their no doubt good and highly skilled devs to really conceptualize and create a best of all three next generation DCC? Without a bunch of suits getting involved and trying to shape it towards their idea of what will make the most money? ** ** I suspect AD is suffering from terminal droids in suits syndrome. ** ** ** ** On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 12:45 PM, Kris Rivel krisri...@gmail.com wrote:* *** This is a depressing thread! After going through Graham's email...hoping to see one mention of Soft...and finding nothing...I'm left feeling pretty bummed out. This idea that Autodesk can market one app to one type of industry vs. the other is ridiculous. Studios and artists pick what they know, or have available, not what some corporation says fits the bill. All three products have proven themselves just fine doing games, movies and commercials. Its funny though. The past few weeks I've spoken to so many converted or multi-app artists that use maya, max, c4d or some combo because they can't get enough Soft work. BUT...the funny thing is that each and everyone complains how frustrating it is when they know they could do it in Soft so much easier. Its hystericaland sad at the same time. Its the little engine that could and did but ultimately was pushed aside because of bad marketing, buy-outs and corporate BS. ** ** Expecting them to keep all three alive, well and generally the same though is probably not reality and if they are planning on that...well...they're going to lose the entire ME industry because others are creeping up with some very cool stuff. I personally am leaning towards Houdini and other niche apps. The only thing keeping everyone paying that damn maintenance fee to get upgraded is because its still the industry default and like photoshop...unavoidable...but only for now. ** ** If I was Autodesk, I would focus on something truly next gen. Something cloud and subscription based that combines the best of all 3 in a whole new way...one application to rule them all. Kris ** ** On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 9:32 AM, Scott Lange sc...@turbulenceffects.com wrote: LOL -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Eric Lampi Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 10:56 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad No PR department has, in history, ever been able to prevent a cluster of twats from speculating wildly and working themselves into nerd-rage. If one was ever invented it would have to be either an armed force with right to extreme prejudice in applying force, or an act of God, or possibly both. This belongs on a plaque somewhere. Eric Freelance
Re: Future of Naiad
Plenty people couldn't live without it these days, and it's just about to see an even bigger shift. What Matt outlines is foresightful enough, and already happening in some tiers. It sure is going that way in the high end of film VFX and feature animation. You might be surpised by how much like this a pipe looks, or is about to: ZBrush - Topogun/3DC - Mari/Mudbox - Maya/Soft (for rigs/anim) - point caches - entirely custom built or 3rd party provided surfacing (Maya barely plays as a node editor and OGL viewer) - Houdini - Katana - Nuke Layout/camera work, because of their scene centric nature, and rigging/animation, for too many reasons to list, are the hardest to take out of Maya/Soft, but instead of a long, undisturbed streak of operations like they used to be, they are more and more frequently peppered by custom bits that do more and more stretches of work every production, and Fabric and some other options look to erode more of it that in the high end is often done by propietary equivalents or near equivalents. Some of that, what is easily understandable, somewhat standardized, and easily applicable has already trickled down to those with less staff, time and money. More will. On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 8:54 AM, Ciaran Moloney moloney.cia...@gmail.comwrote: Likewise, anybody used Katana? On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 11:52 PM, Sebastian Kowalski l...@sekow.comwrote: do I hear fabric engine? Am 31.07.2013 um 00:36 schrieb Matt Lind ml...@carbinestudios.com: I would question whether a one-size fits all application is relevant anymore. The current 3 applications were designed and developed in the 1990s, but the industry has evolved quite a bit since then. Even Softimage’s ‘Sumatra’ propaganda advertised it as a product for ‘the next ten years’. We’re well beyond that now. Mobile, 3d printing, interactive spaces, etc.. have all emerged and need 3d content. While Autodesk’s big 3 can be used, they aren’t necessarily tailored for those markets. The big 3 are strongly rooted in film/video and some games. What’s needed to today is a collective rethink. I think what’s needed today is a host application to act as a point of assembly and layout. It performs the basic tasks of scene construction and metadata packaging, but from that point on acts as a hub for other applications whether they be commercial or privately developed. While smaller studios and one-man efforts would probably prefer an integrated solution like they are available today, as data scales up it will be difficult to continue that paradigm and still be competitive over the long term. Is Autodesk up to the task? It’ll probably be years before we know the answer. Matt *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage- boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Andy Moorer *Sent:* Tuesday, July 30, 2013 2:42 PM *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Re: Future of Naiad ** ** I would be totally open to a new application from AD if it takes some of the best ideas of the 3 apps. Heck call it Maya thats fine. My problem is however that AD does not seem to have a pattern of making choices based on ensuring the best results for their customers. If their next-gen app suits their needs and tosses what makes a tool like softimage brilliant they're wasting their time developing. ** ** Does AD actually have the culture and good sense to allow their no doubt good and highly skilled devs to really conceptualize and create a best of all three next generation DCC? Without a bunch of suits getting involved and trying to shape it towards their idea of what will make the most money? ** ** I suspect AD is suffering from terminal droids in suits syndrome. ** ** ** ** On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 12:45 PM, Kris Rivel krisri...@gmail.com wrote: This is a depressing thread! After going through Graham's email...hoping to see one mention of Soft...and finding nothing...I'm left feeling pretty bummed out. This idea that Autodesk can market one app to one type of industry vs. the other is ridiculous. Studios and artists pick what they know, or have available, not what some corporation says fits the bill. All three products have proven themselves just fine doing games, movies and commercials. Its funny though. The past few weeks I've spoken to so many converted or multi-app artists that use maya, max, c4d or some combo because they can't get enough Soft work. BUT...the funny thing is that each and everyone complains how frustrating it is when they know they could do it in Soft so much easier. Its hystericaland sad at the same time. Its the little engine that could and did but ultimately was pushed aside because of bad marketing, buy-outs and corporate BS. ** ** Expecting them to keep all three alive, well and generally the same though is probably not reality and if they are planning on that...well
RE: Future of Naiad
LOL -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Eric Lampi Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 10:56 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad No PR department has, in history, ever been able to prevent a cluster of twats from speculating wildly and working themselves into nerd-rage. If one was ever invented it would have to be either an armed force with right to extreme prejudice in applying force, or an act of God, or possibly both. This belongs on a plaque somewhere. Eric Freelance 3D and VFX animator http://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 8:40 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: No PR department has, in history, ever been able to prevent a cluster of twats from speculating wildly and working themselves into nerd-rage. If one was ever invented it would have to be either an armed force with right to extreme prejudice in applying force, or an act of God, or possibly both. Mind, AD is often cryptic and confused in comm beyond what the usual within the quarter corporate rule would excuse, that we can all agree on, but no matter the amount of information that gets rolled out, people will always speculate and work things into re-inforcing whatever scenario they want to believe. On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 10:19 AM, Steven Caron car...@gmail.com wrote: they, you, need a better PR department. it is simple, don't give us reason to speculate so wildly. *written with my thumbs On Jul 24, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.com wrote: I'm saying nothing more, though if anyone wants to pvt me, then feel free. -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!
Re: Future of Naiad
Bitfrost kinda sounds like a torrent client :P On 26 July 2013 04:56, Eric Lampi ericla...@gmail.com wrote: No PR department has, in history, ever been able to prevent a cluster of twats from speculating wildly and working themselves into nerd-rage. If one was ever invented it would have to be either an armed force with right to extreme prejudice in applying force, or an act of God, or possibly both. This belongs on a plaque somewhere. Eric Freelance 3D and VFX animator http://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 8:40 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: No PR department has, in history, ever been able to prevent a cluster of twats from speculating wildly and working themselves into nerd-rage. If one was ever invented it would have to be either an armed force with right to extreme prejudice in applying force, or an act of God, or possibly both. Mind, AD is often cryptic and confused in comm beyond what the usual within the quarter corporate rule would excuse, that we can all agree on, but no matter the amount of information that gets rolled out, people will always speculate and work things into re-inforcing whatever scenario they want to believe. On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 10:19 AM, Steven Caron car...@gmail.com wrote: they, you, need a better PR department. it is simple, don't give us reason to speculate so wildly. *written with my thumbs On Jul 24, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.com wrote: I'm saying nothing more, though if anyone wants to pvt me, then feel free. -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!
Re: Future of Naiad
Watch it, the Swedes are reading, and playing games with their rainbows sends them into a berserk viking rage. On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com wrote: Bitfrost kinda sounds like a torrent client :P On 26 July 2013 04:56, Eric Lampi ericla...@gmail.com wrote: No PR department has, in history, ever been able to prevent a cluster of twats from speculating wildly and working themselves into nerd-rage. If one was ever invented it would have to be either an armed force with right to extreme prejudice in applying force, or an act of God, or possibly both. This belongs on a plaque somewhere. Eric Freelance 3D and VFX animator http://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 8:40 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: No PR department has, in history, ever been able to prevent a cluster of twats from speculating wildly and working themselves into nerd-rage. If one was ever invented it would have to be either an armed force with right to extreme prejudice in applying force, or an act of God, or possibly both. Mind, AD is often cryptic and confused in comm beyond what the usual within the quarter corporate rule would excuse, that we can all agree on, but no matter the amount of information that gets rolled out, people will always speculate and work things into re-inforcing whatever scenario they want to believe. On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 10:19 AM, Steven Caron car...@gmail.com wrote: they, you, need a better PR department. it is simple, don't give us reason to speculate so wildly. *written with my thumbs On Jul 24, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.com wrote: I'm saying nothing more, though if anyone wants to pvt me, then feel free. -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are! -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!
Re: Future of Naiad
Sitting in the middle of Sweden, I can confirm that... Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com hat am 26. Juli 2013 um 09:13 geschrieben: Watch it, the Swedes are reading, and playing games with their rainbows sends them into a berserk viking rage. On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com mailto:sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com wrote: Bitfrost kinda sounds like a torrent client :P On 26 July 2013 04:56, Eric Lampi ericla...@gmail.com mailto:ericla...@gmail.com wrote: No PR department has, in history, ever been able to prevent a cluster of twats from speculating wildly and working themselves into nerd-rage. If one was ever invented it would have to be either an armed force with right to extreme prejudice in applying force, or an act of God, or possibly both. This belongs on a plaque somewhere. Eric Freelance 3D and VFX animator http://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 8:40 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com mailto:raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: No PR department has, in history, ever been able to prevent a cluster of twats from speculating wildly and working themselves into nerd-rage. If one was ever invented it would have to be either an armed force with right to extreme prejudice in applying force, or an act of God, or possibly both. Mind, AD is often cryptic and confused in comm beyond what the usual within the quarter corporate rule would excuse, that we can all agree on, but no matter the amount of information that gets rolled out, people will always speculate and work things into re-inforcing whatever scenario they want to believe. On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 10:19 AM, Steven Caron car...@gmail.com mailto:car...@gmail.com wrote: they, you, need a better PR department. it is simple, don't give us reason to speculate so wildly. *written with my thumbs On Jul 24, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.com mailto:graham.b...@autodesk.com wrote: I'm saying nothing more, though if anyone wants to pvt me, then feel free. -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are! -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!
Re: Future of Naiad
Bring on them Vikings, beat them in the past* – will beat them again. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Leuven_(891) – This battle pretty much ended Viking invasions in the low lands – Leuven is my hometown – the town flag still refers to this battle, when the borders of the river were painted red with the blood of slain Vikings – which brings us vaguely back to the topic – fluid sims... ) Also – the Vikings as we know them were from Norway and Denmark – the Swedish went East to Russia and were more of the trading type. * disclaimer: I wasn’t born at the time. From: Thomas Volkmann Sent: Friday, July 26, 2013 9:19 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad Sitting in the middle of Sweden, I can confirm that... Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com hat am 26. Juli 2013 um 09:13 geschrieben: Watch it, the Swedes are reading, and playing games with their rainbows sends them into a berserk viking rage. On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com wrote: Bitfrost kinda sounds like a torrent client :P On 26 July 2013 04:56, Eric Lampi ericla...@gmail.com wrote: No PR department has, in history, ever been able to prevent a cluster of twats from speculating wildly and working themselves into nerd-rage. If one was ever invented it would have to be either an armed force with right to extreme prejudice in applying force, or an act of God, or possibly both. This belongs on a plaque somewhere. Eric Freelance 3D and VFX animator http://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 8:40 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: No PR department has, in history, ever been able to prevent a cluster of twats from speculating wildly and working themselves into nerd-rage. If one was ever invented it would have to be either an armed force with right to extreme prejudice in applying force, or an act of God, or possibly both. Mind, AD is often cryptic and confused in comm beyond what the usual within the quarter corporate rule would excuse, that we can all agree on, but no matter the amount of information that gets rolled out, people will always speculate and work things into re-inforcing whatever scenario they want to believe. On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 10:19 AM, Steven Caron car...@gmail.com wrote: they, you, need a better PR department. it is simple, don't give us reason to speculate so wildly. *written with my thumbs On Jul 24, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.com wrote: I'm saying nothing more, though if anyone wants to pvt me, then feel free. -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are! -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!
Re: Future of Naiad
Hah, if you can call it a presence at all... On Jul 24, 2013 9:20 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: I'm not quite sure I can fault them for not having their own floor space. They were present at some partners', but Siggraph having shifted crowd and attitude a fair bit I'm not sure they would have got a ton of mileage out of their own, not to mention their big news came out months ago with the 2014 releases, and if they have nothing for this quarter they can't basically show anything else. I can see why a big user event and floor presence scattered at other stands would have been a better use of money for them. On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 2:09 PM, Eric Thivierge ethivie...@gmail.comwrote: Speculating from Siggraph not having attended the Autodesk user event knowing they would have nothing of interest to show me, it's apparent they will be discontinuing all DCCs and focusing their efforts selling their new product Autodesk Blender. Frankly i find the absence of Autodesk at the Siggraph floor either arrogant or just plain stupid. Very apparent from all the talks this year that no one is really taking Maya seriously for effects work aside from some bits of naiad. SideFx is taking charge in a big way and have some big stuff coming not including Houdini Engine. Sincerely, Your embedded Siggraph journalist On Jul 24, 2013 8:03 PM, Greg Punchatz g...@janimation.com wrote: Ha! Good point on the flame .. I still maintain the emperor has no clothes;) I am a complete believer in atomic software. I think it would allow for greater innovation in each key area. Zbrush proved that to me. I am looking for someone to step up to the plate In the areas of rigging and animation. I'm hoping the guys over at fabric engine might do something for us in that regard. I know much higher frame rates are possible at this point if all a program had to do was to spend it cycles on those two areas, it is absolutely ridiculous that people have to play blast there animations to view to see it at full frame rate IMO. There is no app that focuses squarely on that subject right now. There are countless modeling, painting programs. For myself and and Janimation I want us to move away from the single beast program mentality. I plan to keep soft the glue that keeps it all together for now and the foreseeable near future.. Right now I'm really enjoying learning Mari, I bought that for home because I really don't see any other competition in that area. Because it squarely focused on 3-D paint, it got so many things right. Granted it took till 2.0 before I thought it was good enough to jump on board. Now that I'm there I could not be happier. Clairese looks very interesting to me, it almost seems too good to be true. Arnold keeps me happy when I can use it, as we have a limited license pool for the time being. I love Nuke as well, but I don't know it well enough for my taste yet. Modo has me interested as well, curious how the foundry leverages its render engine. I tried it once and found clunky, but did not give it enough of a chance. I also want us to move to an Alembic pipeline ASAP ... That's the next big thing that I need to get pushed thru at the office. I'm just a bit grumpy on where we sit, I just wish things would've turned out differently. C'est la vie. Sent from someone using his thumbs , Siri, and a healthy dose of dyslexia ... On Jul 24, 2013, at 8:50 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: So they have a scarcely maintained aging PoS they are still managing to sell for gazillions as a high prestige product, and have insofar managed to distract the audience from the fact the emperor is freeballing it, and you'd go to the board asking for the management who's pulling that hat trick off to be replaced? :) They do feel increasingly dysfunctional in their communication and user base management, but so does nearly any large enough media oriented large house these days. Only the Foundry seems to be closer in touch with the top tiers of the VFX industry. It's very possible AD is simply more Adobe than Alias/Soft, and we just can't (nor should we be supposed to) be served by a company with that kind of mentality. All that said, Foundry is doing better than ok and they seem to care a lot for the VFX business at many levels, unlike AD as a larger entity (which you have to remember is NOT Soft or Alias), and pipelines are going atomic with OSS glue, so the days of Maya/Soft/MAX not being required across the whole pipe are upon us already. When you think about it already entire chunks of the pipe in the top end reflect that, and a lot of that is trickling down to the middle, and will soon enough trickle further down again. With Katana + PRMan + Alembic Surfacing and lighting is likely the next bit breaking off the AD continent, much like modelling did already with ZB + Topogun. If Fabric manages to
Re: Future of Naiad
Given we are in an Autodesk forum and given the basic etiquette I will only say we are in a major tectonic shift and imho Autodesk need to show some goods yesterday. Jordi Bares jordiba...@gmail.com On 25 Jul 2013, at 08:48, Eric Thivierge ethivie...@gmail.com wrote: Hah, if you can call it a presence at all... On Jul 24, 2013 9:20 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: I'm not quite sure I can fault them for not having their own floor space. They were present at some partners', but Siggraph having shifted crowd and attitude a fair bit I'm not sure they would have got a ton of mileage out of their own, not to mention their big news came out months ago with the 2014 releases, and if they have nothing for this quarter they can't basically show anything else. I can see why a big user event and floor presence scattered at other stands would have been a better use of money for them. On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 2:09 PM, Eric Thivierge ethivie...@gmail.com wrote: Speculating from Siggraph not having attended the Autodesk user event knowing they would have nothing of interest to show me, it's apparent they will be discontinuing all DCCs and focusing their efforts selling their new product Autodesk Blender. Frankly i find the absence of Autodesk at the Siggraph floor either arrogant or just plain stupid. Very apparent from all the talks this year that no one is really taking Maya seriously for effects work aside from some bits of naiad. SideFx is taking charge in a big way and have some big stuff coming not including Houdini Engine. Sincerely, Your embedded Siggraph journalist On Jul 24, 2013 8:03 PM, Greg Punchatz g...@janimation.com wrote: Ha! Good point on the flame .. I still maintain the emperor has no clothes;) I am a complete believer in atomic software. I think it would allow for greater innovation in each key area. Zbrush proved that to me. I am looking for someone to step up to the plate In the areas of rigging and animation. I'm hoping the guys over at fabric engine might do something for us in that regard. I know much higher frame rates are possible at this point if all a program had to do was to spend it cycles on those two areas, it is absolutely ridiculous that people have to play blast there animations to view to see it at full frame rate IMO. There is no app that focuses squarely on that subject right now. There are countless modeling, painting programs. For myself and and Janimation I want us to move away from the single beast program mentality. I plan to keep soft the glue that keeps it all together for now and the foreseeable near future.. Right now I'm really enjoying learning Mari, I bought that for home because I really don't see any other competition in that area. Because it squarely focused on 3-D paint, it got so many things right. Granted it took till 2.0 before I thought it was good enough to jump on board. Now that I'm there I could not be happier. Clairese looks very interesting to me, it almost seems too good to be true. Arnold keeps me happy when I can use it, as we have a limited license pool for the time being. I love Nuke as well, but I don't know it well enough for my taste yet. Modo has me interested as well, curious how the foundry leverages its render engine. I tried it once and found clunky, but did not give it enough of a chance. I also want us to move to an Alembic pipeline ASAP ... That's the next big thing that I need to get pushed thru at the office. I'm just a bit grumpy on where we sit, I just wish things would've turned out differently. C'est la vie. Sent from someone using his thumbs , Siri, and a healthy dose of dyslexia ... On Jul 24, 2013, at 8:50 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: So they have a scarcely maintained aging PoS they are still managing to sell for gazillions as a high prestige product, and have insofar managed to distract the audience from the fact the emperor is freeballing it, and you'd go to the board asking for the management who's pulling that hat trick off to be replaced? :) They do feel increasingly dysfunctional in their communication and user base management, but so does nearly any large enough media oriented large house these days. Only the Foundry seems to be closer in touch with the top tiers of the VFX industry. It's very possible AD is simply more Adobe than Alias/Soft, and we just can't (nor should we be supposed to) be served by a company with that kind of mentality. All that said, Foundry is doing better than ok and they seem to care a lot for the VFX business at many levels, unlike AD as a larger entity (which you have to remember is NOT Soft or Alias), and pipelines are going atomic with OSS glue, so the days of Maya/Soft/MAX not being required across the whole pipe are upon us already. When you think about it already
Re: Future of Naiad
this is a forum with Autodesk etiquette..? very broadly speaking.. :) you and me as well as countless others were on here long before it was AD who owned the server where this mailing list lived, and hopefully many will still be on here when it changes hands yet again. its been utter lackluster so far from its current owners including the potential Naiad / bifrost debacle therefore fingers crossed from me this earthquake happens sooner rather than later! On 25 July 2013 10:35, Jordi Bares jordiba...@gmail.com wrote: Given we are in an Autodesk forum and given the basic etiquette I will only say we are in a major tectonic shift and imho Autodesk need to show some goods yesterday. Jordi Bares jordiba...@gmail.com On 25 Jul 2013, at 08:48, Eric Thivierge ethivie...@gmail.com wrote: Hah, if you can call it a presence at all... On Jul 24, 2013 9:20 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: I'm not quite sure I can fault them for not having their own floor space. They were present at some partners', but Siggraph having shifted crowd and attitude a fair bit I'm not sure they would have got a ton of mileage out of their own, not to mention their big news came out months ago with the 2014 releases, and if they have nothing for this quarter they can't basically show anything else. I can see why a big user event and floor presence scattered at other stands would have been a better use of money for them. On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 2:09 PM, Eric Thivierge ethivie...@gmail.comwrote: Speculating from Siggraph not having attended the Autodesk user event knowing they would have nothing of interest to show me, it's apparent they will be discontinuing all DCCs and focusing their efforts selling their new product Autodesk Blender. Frankly i find the absence of Autodesk at the Siggraph floor either arrogant or just plain stupid. Very apparent from all the talks this year that no one is really taking Maya seriously for effects work aside from some bits of naiad. SideFx is taking charge in a big way and have some big stuff coming not including Houdini Engine. Sincerely, Your embedded Siggraph journalist On Jul 24, 2013 8:03 PM, Greg Punchatz g...@janimation.com wrote: Ha! Good point on the flame .. I still maintain the emperor has no clothes;) I am a complete believer in atomic software. I think it would allow for greater innovation in each key area. Zbrush proved that to me. I am looking for someone to step up to the plate In the areas of rigging and animation. I'm hoping the guys over at fabric engine might do something for us in that regard. I know much higher frame rates are possible at this point if all a program had to do was to spend it cycles on those two areas, it is absolutely ridiculous that people have to play blast there animations to view to see it at full frame rate IMO. There is no app that focuses squarely on that subject right now. There are countless modeling, painting programs. For myself and and Janimation I want us to move away from the single beast program mentality. I plan to keep soft the glue that keeps it all together for now and the foreseeable near future.. Right now I'm really enjoying learning Mari, I bought that for home because I really don't see any other competition in that area. Because it squarely focused on 3-D paint, it got so many things right. Granted it took till 2.0 before I thought it was good enough to jump on board. Now that I'm there I could not be happier. Clairese looks very interesting to me, it almost seems too good to be true. Arnold keeps me happy when I can use it, as we have a limited license pool for the time being. I love Nuke as well, but I don't know it well enough for my taste yet. Modo has me interested as well, curious how the foundry leverages its render engine. I tried it once and found clunky, but did not give it enough of a chance. I also want us to move to an Alembic pipeline ASAP ... That's the next big thing that I need to get pushed thru at the office. I'm just a bit grumpy on where we sit, I just wish things would've turned out differently. C'est la vie. Sent from someone using his thumbs , Siri, and a healthy dose of dyslexia ... On Jul 24, 2013, at 8:50 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: So they have a scarcely maintained aging PoS they are still managing to sell for gazillions as a high prestige product, and have insofar managed to distract the audience from the fact the emperor is freeballing it, and you'd go to the board asking for the management who's pulling that hat trick off to be replaced? :) They do feel increasingly dysfunctional in their communication and user base management, but so does nearly any large enough media oriented large house these days. Only the Foundry seems to be closer in touch with the top tiers of the VFX industry. It's very possible AD is simply more Adobe than Alias/Soft, and we
RE: Future of Naiad
Overnight, Frank Delise (used to head up Max, but now heads our Games Solutions group, fyi, Marc Stevens heads up Film/TV), posted this to the Max underground site Hi all, I wanted to add some color to some of the concerns here. Yes, it was unfortunate that some of our max customer demos got canceled last minute. Siggraph was a bit different for us this year vs previous years. As a corp company, unfortunately we can’t disclose the roadmap of our products anytime we want like the good old days. Not by choice, but by revenue accounting laws. Since our product ship dates are not aligned with Siggraph, this causes us to have limited news to share about our products. This is why we have our own event, the Unfold event. This allows us to share the roadmap that is aligned with ship dates. Then why did Maya show up with some cool stuff this year at Siggraph user event and not max? It just so happens that the technology preview for Maya was ready for Siggraph, whereas the 3ds max work that we are doing is gearing up for a update soon and we will be discussing the details of that in the near future.The timing wasn’t right for Siggraph. Again not always in our control on what trade show they line up to. On the general direction of Maya vs Max, nothing has changed. Maya was designed for entertainment customers whom need a platform to extend. Max was designed for the democratization of content creation for all markets. So Maya may be better for deep pipeline integration, Where Max is good for out of the box artist toolset for a broader markets. It also means that the Maya team focuses all its energy on entertainment features and the Max team divides its energy on a variation of markets, from design viz, VFX, Games, etc.. So naturally, if you are a VFX artist only, you may see more progress on the Maya front than you do on Max depending on the releases. When I took over the product for the 2014 release, I made some significant changes. I refocused a lot the energy on stability and performance. I also put a significant focus on “small annoying things”. This resulted in some significant performance and stability improvements and cleaned up some workflows. Did you get fluids :), No, not yet.. But it was the right thing to do for Max’s continued growth. Meanwhile, we still managed to get in some impressive features. As a Maya user, you would have noticed the same thing for the past couple of years where Maya was pretty dry in the new feature department but had significant scalability and API enhancements. Sometime it takes entire teams to make big shifts like that. So let the Maya team enjoy some new fun features :). As for Max, we are hard at work on features that have been raised up from our customers. Some will be for entertainment, games and some will be for design viz. For the Niad\Bifrost concern, Bifrost is being developed as an engine with Maya as the first customer. We aren’t disclosing many details at the moment, but it’s being designed to be agnostic to any one specific tool. I hope that clarifies a few things for everyone. Frank DeLise - From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Rob Chapman Sent: 25 July 2013 10:01 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad this is a forum with Autodesk etiquette..? very broadly speaking.. :) you and me as well as countless others were on here long before it was AD who owned the server where this mailing list lived, and hopefully many will still be on here when it changes hands yet again. its been utter lackluster so far from its current owners including the potential Naiad / bifrost debacle therefore fingers crossed from me this earthquake happens sooner rather than later! On 25 July 2013 10:35, Jordi Bares jordiba...@gmail.commailto:jordiba...@gmail.com wrote: Given we are in an Autodesk forum and given the basic etiquette I will only say we are in a major tectonic shift and imho Autodesk need to show some goods yesterday. Jordi Bares jordiba...@gmail.commailto:jordiba...@gmail.com On 25 Jul 2013, at 08:48, Eric Thivierge ethivie...@gmail.commailto:ethivie...@gmail.com wrote: Hah, if you can call it a presence at all... On Jul 24, 2013 9:20 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.commailto:raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: I'm not quite sure I can fault them for not having their own floor space. They were present at some partners', but Siggraph having shifted crowd and attitude a fair bit I'm not sure they would have got a ton of mileage out of their own, not to mention their big news came out months ago with the 2014 releases, and if they have nothing for this quarter they can't basically show anything else. I can see why a big user event and floor presence scattered at other stands would have been a better use of money for them. On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 2:09 PM, Eric Thivierge ethivie
Re: Future of Naiad
Ok, so why no one speaks about Softimage? Maya, Max, Maya Max, Maya, Max, Maya Max. Just tell us the product will end the development cycle and enter a bugfix phase untill it dies so we know already. This is pathetic. -Messaggio originale- From: Graham Bell Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 11:29 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: RE: Future of Naiad Overnight, Frank Delise (used to head up Max, but now heads our Games Solutions group, fyi, Marc Stevens heads up Film/TV), posted this to the Max underground site Hi all, I wanted to add some color to some of the concerns here. Yes, it was unfortunate that some of our max customer demos got canceled last minute. Siggraph was a bit different for us this year vs previous years. As a corp company, unfortunately we can’t disclose the roadmap of our products anytime we want like the good old days. Not by choice, but by revenue accounting laws. Since our product ship dates are not aligned with Siggraph, this causes us to have limited news to share about our products. This is why we have our own event, the Unfold event. This allows us to share the roadmap that is aligned with ship dates. Then why did Maya show up with some cool stuff this year at Siggraph user event and not max? It just so happens that the technology preview for Maya was ready for Siggraph, whereas the 3ds max work that we are doing is gearing up for a update soon and we will be discussing the details of that in the near future.The timing wasn’t right for Siggraph. Again not always in our control on what trade show they line up to. On the general direction of Maya vs Max, nothing has changed. Maya was designed for entertainment customers whom need a platform to extend. Max was designed for the democratization of content creation for all markets. So Maya may be better for deep pipeline integration, Where Max is good for out of the box artist toolset for a broader markets. It also means that the Maya team focuses all its energy on entertainment features and the Max team divides its energy on a variation of markets, from design viz, VFX, Games, etc.. So naturally, if you are a VFX artist only, you may see more progress on the Maya front than you do on Max depending on the releases. When I took over the product for the 2014 release, I made some significant changes. I refocused a lot the energy on stability and performance. I also put a significant focus on “small annoying things”. This resulted in some significant performance and stability improvements and cleaned up some workflows. Did you get fluids :), No, not yet.. But it was the right thing to do for Max’s continued growth. Meanwhile, we still managed to get in some impressive features. As a Maya user, you would have noticed the same thing for the past couple of years where Maya was pretty dry in the new feature department but had significant scalability and API enhancements. Sometime it takes entire teams to make big shifts like that. So let the Maya team enjoy some new fun features :). As for Max, we are hard at work on features that have been raised up from our customers. Some will be for entertainment, games and some will be for design viz. For the Niad\Bifrost concern, Bifrost is being developed as an engine with Maya as the first customer. We aren’t disclosing many details at the moment, but it’s being designed to be agnostic to any one specific tool. I hope that clarifies a few things for everyone. Frank DeLise - From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Rob Chapman Sent: 25 July 2013 10:01 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad this is a forum with Autodesk etiquette..? very broadly speaking.. :) you and me as well as countless others were on here long before it was AD who owned the server where this mailing list lived, and hopefully many will still be on here when it changes hands yet again. its been utter lackluster so far from its current owners including the potential Naiad / bifrost debacle therefore fingers crossed from me this earthquake happens sooner rather than later! On 25 July 2013 10:35, Jordi Bares jordiba...@gmail.commailto:jordiba...@gmail.com wrote: Given we are in an Autodesk forum and given the basic etiquette I will only say we are in a major tectonic shift and imho Autodesk need to show some goods yesterday. Jordi Bares jordiba...@gmail.commailto:jordiba...@gmail.com On 25 Jul 2013, at 08:48, Eric Thivierge ethivie...@gmail.commailto:ethivie...@gmail.com wrote: Hah, if you can call it a presence at all... On Jul 24, 2013 9:20 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.commailto:raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: I'm not quite sure I can fault them for not having their own floor space. They were present at some partners', but Siggraph having shifted crowd and attitude a fair bit I'm not sure they would have got
RE: Future of Naiad
Yes I know, but the original context was around Max, and a post made on a Max site. I posted this just to add some additional info. -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Massimo Galluzzo Sent: 25 July 2013 10:56 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad Ok, so why no one speaks about Softimage? Maya, Max, Maya Max, Maya, Max, Maya Max. Just tell us the product will end the development cycle and enter a bugfix phase untill it dies so we know already. This is pathetic. -Messaggio originale- From: Graham Bell Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 11:29 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: RE: Future of Naiad Overnight, Frank Delise (used to head up Max, but now heads our Games Solutions group, fyi, Marc Stevens heads up Film/TV), posted this to the Max underground site Hi all, I wanted to add some color to some of the concerns here. Yes, it was unfortunate that some of our max customer demos got canceled last minute. Siggraph was a bit different for us this year vs previous years. As a corp company, unfortunately we can’t disclose the roadmap of our products anytime we want like the good old days. Not by choice, but by revenue accounting laws. Since our product ship dates are not aligned with Siggraph, this causes us to have limited news to share about our products. This is why we have our own event, the Unfold event. This allows us to share the roadmap that is aligned with ship dates. Then why did Maya show up with some cool stuff this year at Siggraph user event and not max? It just so happens that the technology preview for Maya was ready for Siggraph, whereas the 3ds max work that we are doing is gearing up for a update soon and we will be discussing the details of that in the near future.The timing wasn’t right for Siggraph. Again not always in our control on what trade show they line up to. On the general direction of Maya vs Max, nothing has changed. Maya was designed for entertainment customers whom need a platform to extend. Max was designed for the democratization of content creation for all markets. So Maya may be better for deep pipeline integration, Where Max is good for out of the box artist toolset for a broader markets. It also means that the Maya team focuses all its energy on entertainment features and the Max team divides its energy on a variation of markets, from design viz, VFX, Games, etc.. So naturally, if you are a VFX artist only, you may see more progress on the Maya front than you do on Max depending on the releases. When I took over the product for the 2014 release, I made some significant changes. I refocused a lot the energy on stability and performance. I also put a significant focus on “small annoying things”. This resulted in some significant performance and stability improvements and cleaned up some workflows. Did you get fluids :), No, not yet.. But it was the right thing to do for Max’s continued growth. Meanwhile, we still managed to get in some impressive features. As a Maya user, you would have noticed the same thing for the past couple of years where Maya was pretty dry in the new feature department but had significant scalability and API enhancements. Sometime it takes entire teams to make big shifts like that. So let the Maya team enjoy some new fun features :). As for Max, we are hard at work on features that have been raised up from our customers. Some will be for entertainment, games and some will be for design viz. For the Niad\Bifrost concern, Bifrost is being developed as an engine with Maya as the first customer. We aren’t disclosing many details at the moment, but it’s being designed to be agnostic to any one specific tool. I hope that clarifies a few things for everyone. Frank DeLise - From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Rob Chapman Sent: 25 July 2013 10:01 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad this is a forum with Autodesk etiquette..? very broadly speaking.. :) you and me as well as countless others were on here long before it was AD who owned the server where this mailing list lived, and hopefully many will still be on here when it changes hands yet again. its been utter lackluster so far from its current owners including the potential Naiad / bifrost debacle therefore fingers crossed from me this earthquake happens sooner rather than later! On 25 July 2013 10:35, Jordi Bares jordiba...@gmail.commailto:jordiba...@gmail.com wrote: Given we are in an Autodesk forum and given the basic etiquette I will only say we are in a major tectonic shift and imho Autodesk need to show some goods yesterday. Jordi Bares jordiba...@gmail.commailto:jordiba...@gmail.com On 25 Jul 2013, at 08:48, Eric Thivierge ethivie...@gmail.commailto:ethivie...@gmail.com wrote
RE: Future of Naiad
and you'd go to the board asking for the management who's pulling that hat trick off to be replaced? :) Haha! Brilliant :) Reading Marc Stevens' response, I think there's an issue that Autodesk are sticking their heads in the sand about. Software like Softimage, Maya, and Max, can't be casually assigned to cater to specific industries. It's like putting a square peg in a round hole. The software was never designed like that. Artists use tools based on personal preference and what they need at the time. It's got nothing to do with what industry AD marketing decide to assign it to. IMHO that's why there's such a huge amount of confusion in the user base as to what's going on. That's why when Maya gets an awesome new tool for VFX work, all the Max and Soft users get pissed off. The reasons a company or individual uses a particular piece of software are endlessly complex but Autodesk are trying to force it. Instead of dealing with the complex reality, it would seem they think they can just use a reductionist approach. I can think of lots of reasons why they're doing this, but it doesn't make it the right thing to do. For them or us. On 25 July 2013 at 10:29 Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.com wrote: Overnight, Frank Delise (used to head up Max, but now heads our Games Solutions group, fyi, Marc Stevens heads up Film/TV), posted this to the Max underground site Hi all, I wanted to add some color to some of the concerns here. Yes, it was unfortunate that some of our max customer demos got canceled last minute. Siggraph was a bit different for us this year vs previous years. As a corp company, unfortunately we can’t disclose the roadmap of our products anytime we want like the good old days. Not by choice, but by revenue accounting laws. Since our product ship dates are not aligned with Siggraph, this causes us to have limited news to share about our products. This is why we have our own event, the Unfold event. This allows us to share the roadmap that is aligned with ship dates. Then why did Maya show up with some cool stuff this year at Siggraph user event and not max? It just so happens that the technology preview for Maya was ready for Siggraph, whereas the 3ds max work that we are doing is gearing up for a update soon and we will be discussing the details of that in the near future.The timing wasn’t right for Siggraph. Again not always in our control on what trade show they line up to. On the general direction of Maya vs Max, nothing has changed. Maya was designed for entertainment customers whom need a platform to extend. Max was designed for the democratization of content creation for all markets. So Maya may be better for deep pipeline integration, Where Max is good for out of the box artist toolset for a broader markets. It also means that the Maya team focuses all its energy on entertainment features and the Max team divides its energy on a variation of markets, from design viz, VFX, Games, etc.. So naturally, if you are a VFX artist only, you may see more progress on the Maya front than you do on Max depending on the releases. When I took over the product for the 2014 release, I made some significant changes. I refocused a lot the energy on stability and performance. I also put a significant focus on “small annoying things”. This resulted in some significant performance and stability improvements and cleaned up some workflows. Did you get fluids :), No, not yet.. But it was the right thing to do for Max’s continued growth. Meanwhile, we still managed to get in some impressive features. As a Maya user, you would have noticed the same thing for the past couple of years where Maya was pretty dry in the new feature department but had significant scalability and API enhancements. Sometime it takes entire teams to make big shifts like that. So let the Maya team enjoy some new fun features :). As for Max, we are hard at work on features that have been raised up from our customers. Some will be for entertainment, games and some will be for design viz. For the Niad\Bifrost concern, Bifrost is being developed as an engine with Maya as the first customer. We aren’t disclosing many details at the moment, but it’s being designed to be agnostic to any one specific tool. I hope that clarifies a few things for everyone. Frank DeLise - From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Rob Chapman Sent: 25 July 2013 10:01 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad this is a forum with Autodesk etiquette..? very broadly speaking.. :) you and me as well as countless others were on here long before it was AD who owned the server where this mailing list lived, and hopefully many will still be on here when it changes hands yet again. its been utter lackluster so far from its current owners including the potential Naiad / bifrost debacle
RE: Future of Naiad
you'll take my Softimage from me when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers! lets face it, if the AD higher ups can't see that houdini is trousering them in the vfx dept, and that their best hope for a procedural approach to vfx, is to hit the ground running with ICE, then they deserve to be buried by the competition bring it on! a -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Nicholas Sent: 25 July 2013 11:24 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: RE: Future of Naiad and you'd go to the board asking for the management who's pulling that hat trick off to be replaced? :) Haha! Brilliant :) Reading Marc Stevens' response, I think there's an issue that Autodesk are sticking their heads in the sand about. Software like Softimage, Maya, and Max, can't be casually assigned to cater to specific industries. It's like putting a square peg in a round hole. The software was never designed like that. Artists use tools based on personal preference and what they need at the time. It's got nothing to do with what industry AD marketing decide to assign it to. IMHO that's why there's such a huge amount of confusion in the user base as to what's going on. That's why when Maya gets an awesome new tool for VFX work, all the Max and Soft users get pissed off. The reasons a company or individual uses a particular piece of software are endlessly complex but Autodesk are trying to force it. Instead of dealing with the complex reality, it would seem they think they can just use a reductionist approach. I can think of lots of reasons why they're doing this, but it doesn't make it the right thing to do. For them or us. On 25 July 2013 at 10:29 Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.com wrote: Overnight, Frank Delise (used to head up Max, but now heads our Games Solutions group, fyi, Marc Stevens heads up Film/TV), posted this to the Max underground site Hi all, I wanted to add some color to some of the concerns here. Yes, it was unfortunate that some of our max customer demos got canceled last minute. Siggraph was a bit different for us this year vs previous years. As a corp company, unfortunately we can't disclose the roadmap of our products anytime we want like the good old days. Not by choice, but by revenue accounting laws. Since our product ship dates are not aligned with Siggraph, this causes us to have limited news to share about our products. This is why we have our own event, the Unfold event. This allows us to share the roadmap that is aligned with ship dates. Then why did Maya show up with some cool stuff this year at Siggraph user event and not max? It just so happens that the technology preview for Maya was ready for Siggraph, whereas the 3ds max work that we are doing is gearing up for a update soon and we will be discussing the details of that in the near future.The timing wasn't right for Siggraph. Again not always in our control on what trade show they line up to. On the general direction of Maya vs Max, nothing has changed. Maya was designed for entertainment customers whom need a platform to extend. Max was designed for the democratization of content creation for all markets. So Maya may be better for deep pipeline integration, Where Max is good for out of the box artist toolset for a broader markets. It also means that the Maya team focuses all its energy on entertainment features and the Max team divides its energy on a variation of markets, from design viz, VFX, Games, etc.. So naturally, if you are a VFX artist only, you may see more progress on the Maya front than you do on Max depending on the releases. When I took over the product for the 2014 release, I made some significant changes. I refocused a lot the energy on stability and performance. I also put a significant focus on small annoying things. This resulted in some significant performance and stability improvements and cleaned up some workflows. Did you get fluids :), No, not yet.. But it was the right thing to do for Max's continued growth. Meanwhile, we still managed to get in some impressive features. As a Maya user, you would have noticed the same thing for the past couple of years where Maya was pretty dry in the new feature department but had significant scalability and API enhancements. Sometime it takes entire teams to make big shifts like that. So let the Maya team enjoy some new fun features :). As for Max, we are hard at work on features that have been raised up from our customers. Some will be for entertainment, games and some will be for design viz. For the Niad\Bifrost concern, Bifrost is being developed as an engine with Maya as the first customer. We aren't disclosing many details at the moment, but it's being designed to be agnostic to any one specific tool. I hope that clarifies a few things for everyone. Frank DeLise - From: softimage-boun
Re: Future of Naiad
Sad, but exactly my view of things too. you'll take my Softimage from me when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers! lets face it, if the AD higher ups can't see that houdini is trousering them in the vfx dept, and that their best hope for a procedural approach to vfx, is to hit the ground running with ICE, then they deserve to be buried by the competition bring it on! a -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Nicholas Sent: 25 July 2013 11:24 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: RE: Future of Naiad and you'd go to the board asking for the management who's pulling that hat trick off to be replaced? :) Haha! Brilliant :) Reading Marc Stevens' response, I think there's an issue that Autodesk are sticking their heads in the sand about. Software like Softimage, Maya, and Max, can't be casually assigned to cater to specific industries. It's like putting a square peg in a round hole. The software was never designed like that. Artists use tools based on personal preference and what they need at the time. It's got nothing to do with what industry AD marketing decide to assign it to. IMHO that's why there's such a huge amount of confusion in the user base as to what's going on. That's why when Maya gets an awesome new tool for VFX work, all the Max and Soft users get pissed off. The reasons a company or individual uses a particular piece of software are endlessly complex but Autodesk are trying to force it. Instead of dealing with the complex reality, it would seem they think they can just use a reductionist approach. I can think of lots of reasons why they're doing this, but it doesn't make it the right thing to do. For them or us. On 25 July 2013 at 10:29 Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.com wrote: Overnight, Frank Delise (used to head up Max, but now heads our Games Solutions group, fyi, Marc Stevens heads up Film/TV), posted this to the Max underground site Hi all, I wanted to add some color to some of the concerns here. Yes, it was unfortunate that some of our max customer demos got canceled last minute. Siggraph was a bit different for us this year vs previous years. As a corp company, unfortunately we can't disclose the roadmap of our products anytime we want like the good old days. Not by choice, but by revenue accounting laws. Since our product ship dates are not aligned with Siggraph, this causes us to have limited news to share about our products. This is why we have our own event, the Unfold event. This allows us to share the roadmap that is aligned with ship dates. Then why did Maya show up with some cool stuff this year at Siggraph user event and not max? It just so happens that the technology preview for Maya was ready for Siggraph, whereas the 3ds max work that we are doing is gearing up for a update soon and we will be discussing the details of that in the near future.The timing wasn't right for Siggraph. Again not always in our control on what trade show they line up to. On the general direction of Maya vs Max, nothing has changed. Maya was designed for entertainment customers whom need a platform to extend. Max was designed for the democratization of content creation for all markets. So Maya may be better for deep pipeline integration, Where Max is good for out of the box artist toolset for a broader markets. It also means that the Maya team focuses all its energy on entertainment features and the Max team divides its energy on a variation of markets, from design viz, VFX, Games, etc.. So naturally, if you are a VFX artist only, you may see more progress on the Maya front than you do on Max depending on the releases. When I took over the product for the 2014 release, I made some significant changes. I refocused a lot the energy on stability and performance. I also put a significant focus on small annoying things. This resulted in some significant performance and stability improvements and cleaned up some workflows. Did you get fluids :), No, not yet.. But it was the right thing to do for Max's continued growth. Meanwhile, we still managed to get in some impressive features. As a Maya user, you would have noticed the same thing for the past couple of years where Maya was pretty dry in the new feature department but had significant scalability and API enhancements. Sometime it takes entire teams to make big shifts like that. So let the Maya team enjoy some new fun features :). As for Max, we are hard at work on features that have been raised up from our customers. Some will be for entertainment, games and some will be for design viz. For the Niad\Bifrost concern, Bifrost is being developed as an engine with Maya as the first customer. We aren't disclosing many details at the moment, but it's being designed to be agnostic to any one specific tool. I hope that clarifies a few things for everyone. Frank
Re: Future of Naiad
:( bad choice ... Graham how was that supposed to make any of us feel better.? It almost felt like salt in a wound... I really appreciate that you try to keep us informed, but if you really don't have anything concrete or encouraging to say it might be better to let it rest at this point.. I know you're only the messenger, but there are certain people with a higher pay grade that should be giving us the bad news... Marc Stevens got his job because of us and softimage. Now he is the man behind killing soft and he has left us for dead... From an outsider's position that's exactly what seems to be happening. Who is Marc and the Max guy's boss? I think I might have a few things to say to him. I gave Autodesk more than a fair shake after the purchase. But all of my fears have come true.. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 25, 2013, at 5:17 AM, Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.com wrote: Yes I know, but the original context was around Max, and a post made on a Max site. I posted this just to add some additional info. -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Massimo Galluzzo Sent: 25 July 2013 10:56 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad Ok, so why no one speaks about Softimage? Maya, Max, Maya Max, Maya, Max, Maya Max. Just tell us the product will end the development cycle and enter a bugfix phase untill it dies so we know already. This is pathetic. -Messaggio originale- From: Graham Bell Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 11:29 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: RE: Future of Naiad Overnight, Frank Delise (used to head up Max, but now heads our Games Solutions group, fyi, Marc Stevens heads up Film/TV), posted this to the Max underground site Hi all, I wanted to add some color to some of the concerns here. Yes, it was unfortunate that some of our max customer demos got canceled last minute. Siggraph was a bit different for us this year vs previous years. As a corp company, unfortunately we can’t disclose the roadmap of our products anytime we want like the good old days. Not by choice, but by revenue accounting laws. Since our product ship dates are not aligned with Siggraph, this causes us to have limited news to share about our products. This is why we have our own event, the Unfold event. This allows us to share the roadmap that is aligned with ship dates. Then why did Maya show up with some cool stuff this year at Siggraph user event and not max? It just so happens that the technology preview for Maya was ready for Siggraph, whereas the 3ds max work that we are doing is gearing up for a update soon and we will be discussing the details of that in the near future.The timing wasn’t right for Siggraph. Again not always in our control on what trade show they line up to. On the general direction of Maya vs Max, nothing has changed. Maya was designed for entertainment customers whom need a platform to extend. Max was designed for the democratization of content creation for all markets. So Maya may be better for deep pipeline integration, Where Max is good for out of the box artist toolset for a broader markets. It also means that the Maya team focuses all its energy on entertainment features and the Max team divides its energy on a variation of markets, from design viz, VFX, Games, etc.. So naturally, if you are a VFX artist only, you may see more progress on the Maya front than you do on Max depending on the releases. When I took over the product for the 2014 release, I made some significant changes. I refocused a lot the energy on stability and performance. I also put a significant focus on “small annoying things”. This resulted in some significant performance and stability improvements and cleaned up some workflows. Did you get fluids :), No, not yet.. But it was the right thing to do for Max’s continued growth. Meanwhile, we still managed to get in some impressive features. As a Maya user, you would have noticed the same thing for the past couple of years where Maya was pretty dry in the new feature department but had significant scalability and API enhancements. Sometime it takes entire teams to make big shifts like that. So let the Maya team enjoy some new fun features :). As for Max, we are hard at work on features that have been raised up from our customers. Some will be for entertainment, games and some will be for design viz. For the Niad\Bifrost concern, Bifrost is being developed as an engine with Maya as the first customer. We aren’t disclosing many details at the moment, but it’s being designed to be agnostic to any one specific tool. I hope that clarifies a few things for everyone. Frank DeLise - From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
RE: Future of Naiad
Fair dues Greg... Fyi, the 'boss' is Chris Bradshaw. He took over from Marc Petit and Marc and Frank report into him. -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Greg Punchatz Sent: 25 July 2013 14:07 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad :( bad choice ... Graham how was that supposed to make any of us feel better.? It almost felt like salt in a wound... I really appreciate that you try to keep us informed, but if you really don't have anything concrete or encouraging to say it might be better to let it rest at this point.. I know you're only the messenger, but there are certain people with a higher pay grade that should be giving us the bad news... Marc Stevens got his job because of us and softimage. Now he is the man behind killing soft and he has left us for dead... From an outsider's position that's exactly what seems to be happening. Who is Marc and the Max guy's boss? I think I might have a few things to say to him. I gave Autodesk more than a fair shake after the purchase. But all of my fears have come true.. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 25, 2013, at 5:17 AM, Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.com wrote: Yes I know, but the original context was around Max, and a post made on a Max site. I posted this just to add some additional info. -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Massimo Galluzzo Sent: 25 July 2013 10:56 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad Ok, so why no one speaks about Softimage? Maya, Max, Maya Max, Maya, Max, Maya Max. Just tell us the product will end the development cycle and enter a bugfix phase untill it dies so we know already. This is pathetic. -Messaggio originale- From: Graham Bell Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 11:29 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: RE: Future of Naiad Overnight, Frank Delise (used to head up Max, but now heads our Games Solutions group, fyi, Marc Stevens heads up Film/TV), posted this to the Max underground site Hi all, I wanted to add some color to some of the concerns here. Yes, it was unfortunate that some of our max customer demos got canceled last minute. Siggraph was a bit different for us this year vs previous years. As a corp company, unfortunately we can’t disclose the roadmap of our products anytime we want like the good old days. Not by choice, but by revenue accounting laws. Since our product ship dates are not aligned with Siggraph, this causes us to have limited news to share about our products. This is why we have our own event, the Unfold event. This allows us to share the roadmap that is aligned with ship dates. Then why did Maya show up with some cool stuff this year at Siggraph user event and not max? It just so happens that the technology preview for Maya was ready for Siggraph, whereas the 3ds max work that we are doing is gearing up for a update soon and we will be discussing the details of that in the near future.The timing wasn’t right for Siggraph. Again not always in our control on what trade show they line up to. On the general direction of Maya vs Max, nothing has changed. Maya was designed for entertainment customers whom need a platform to extend. Max was designed for the democratization of content creation for all markets. So Maya may be better for deep pipeline integration, Where Max is good for out of the box artist toolset for a broader markets. It also means that the Maya team focuses all its energy on entertainment features and the Max team divides its energy on a variation of markets, from design viz, VFX, Games, etc.. So naturally, if you are a VFX artist only, you may see more progress on the Maya front than you do on Max depending on the releases. When I took over the product for the 2014 release, I made some significant changes. I refocused a lot the energy on stability and performance. I also put a significant focus on “small annoying things”. This resulted in some significant performance and stability improvements and cleaned up some workflows. Did you get fluids :), No, not yet.. But it was the right thing to do for Max’s continued growth. Meanwhile, we still managed to get in some impressive features. As a Maya user, you would have noticed the same thing for the past couple of years where Maya was pretty dry in the new feature department but had significant scalability and API enhancements. Sometime it takes entire teams to make big shifts like that. So let the Maya team enjoy some new fun features :). As for Max, we are hard at work on features that have been raised up from our customers. Some will be for entertainment, games and some will be for design viz. For the Niad\Bifrost
Re: Future of Naiad
Am I the only one who thinks of the prevent defense when you look at what Autodesk is doing with the entire Media Entertainment line? For you non-Americans / non-American football fans. The prevent defense is what some coaches use when they are in the lead and the game is near the end. The idea is, maintain the lead and don't make any mistakes. It's an extremely conservative, boring way to try to win a game. A lot of people would say the prevent defense prevents you from winning because you don't try to do anything on offense except not screw up - you don't try to score any more points, you just hold on to the ball and then punt it back to the opposing team - and on defense you allow the opposition to gain ground, hoping that if you give ground, they won't score more points. Meanwhile the other team still wants to win, so they pull out all the stops and try every innovative thing they can think of to score as many points as possible as quickly as possible. I've seen a lot of games that ended badly for the team using the prevent defense. Autodesk has the lead in the market they just want to play prevent defense. Meanwhile Fabric/Creation, Houdini, The Foundry, NewTek, etc., etc., realize the game isn't over. -Paul On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 9:10 AM, Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.comwrote: Fair dues Greg... Fyi, the 'boss' is Chris Bradshaw. He took over from Marc Petit and Marc and Frank report into him. -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Greg Punchatz Sent: 25 July 2013 14:07 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad :( bad choice ... Graham how was that supposed to make any of us feel better.? It almost felt like salt in a wound... I really appreciate that you try to keep us informed, but if you really don't have anything concrete or encouraging to say it might be better to let it rest at this point.. I know you're only the messenger, but there are certain people with a higher pay grade that should be giving us the bad news... Marc Stevens got his job because of us and softimage. Now he is the man behind killing soft and he has left us for dead... From an outsider's position that's exactly what seems to be happening. Who is Marc and the Max guy's boss? I think I might have a few things to say to him. I gave Autodesk more than a fair shake after the purchase. But all of my fears have come true.. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 25, 2013, at 5:17 AM, Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.com wrote: Yes I know, but the original context was around Max, and a post made on a Max site. I posted this just to add some additional info. -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Massimo Galluzzo Sent: 25 July 2013 10:56 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad Ok, so why no one speaks about Softimage? Maya, Max, Maya Max, Maya, Max, Maya Max. Just tell us the product will end the development cycle and enter a bugfix phase untill it dies so we know already. This is pathetic. -Messaggio originale- From: Graham Bell Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 11:29 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: RE: Future of Naiad Overnight, Frank Delise (used to head up Max, but now heads our Games Solutions group, fyi, Marc Stevens heads up Film/TV), posted this to the Max underground site Hi all, I wanted to add some color to some of the concerns here. Yes, it was unfortunate that some of our max customer demos got canceled last minute. Siggraph was a bit different for us this year vs previous years. As a corp company, unfortunately we can’t disclose the roadmap of our products anytime we want like the good old days. Not by choice, but by revenue accounting laws. Since our product ship dates are not aligned with Siggraph, this causes us to have limited news to share about our products. This is why we have our own event, the Unfold event. This allows us to share the roadmap that is aligned with ship dates. Then why did Maya show up with some cool stuff this year at Siggraph user event and not max? It just so happens that the technology preview for Maya was ready for Siggraph, whereas the 3ds max work that we are doing is gearing up for a update soon and we will be discussing the details of that in the near future.The timing wasn’t right for Siggraph. Again not always in our control on what trade show they line up to. On the general direction of Maya vs Max, nothing has changed. Maya was designed for entertainment customers whom need a platform to extend. Max was designed for the democratization of content creation for all markets. So Maya may be better for deep pipeline integration, Where Max is good for out
Re: Future of Naiad
Doesn't prevent defense only make sense in games that have a defined end? Am I the only one who thinks of the prevent defense when you look at what Autodesk is doing with the entire Media Entertainment line? For you non-Americans / non-American football fans. The prevent defense is what some coaches use when they are in the lead and the game is near the end. The idea is, maintain the lead and don't make any mistakes. It's an extremely conservative, boring way to try to win a game. A lot of people would say the prevent defense prevents you from winning because you don't try to do anything on offense except not screw up - you don't try to score any more points, you just hold on to the ball and then punt it back to the opposing team - and on defense you allow the opposition to gain ground, hoping that if you give ground, they won't score more points. Meanwhile the other team still wants to win, so they pull out all the stops and try every innovative thing they can think of to score as many points as possible as quickly as possible. I've seen a lot of games that ended badly for the team using the prevent defense. Autodesk has the lead in the market they just want to play prevent defense. Meanwhile Fabric/Creation, Houdini, The Foundry, NewTek, etc., etc., realize the game isn't over. -Paul On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 9:10 AM, Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.comwrote: Fair dues Greg... Fyi, the 'boss' is Chris Bradshaw. He took over from Marc Petit and Marc and Frank report into him. -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Greg Punchatz Sent: 25 July 2013 14:07 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad :( bad choice ... Graham how was that supposed to make any of us feel better.? It almost felt like salt in a wound... I really appreciate that you try to keep us informed, but if you really don't have anything concrete or encouraging to say it might be better to let it rest at this point.. I know you're only the messenger, but there are certain people with a higher pay grade that should be giving us the bad news... Marc Stevens got his job because of us and softimage. Now he is the man behind killing soft and he has left us for dead... From an outsider's position that's exactly what seems to be happening. Who is Marc and the Max guy's boss? I think I might have a few things to say to him. I gave Autodesk more than a fair shake after the purchase. But all of my fears have come true.. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 25, 2013, at 5:17 AM, Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.com wrote: Yes I know, but the original context was around Max, and a post made on a Max site. I posted this just to add some additional info. -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Massimo Galluzzo Sent: 25 July 2013 10:56 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad Ok, so why no one speaks about Softimage? Maya, Max, Maya Max, Maya, Max, Maya Max. Just tell us the product will end the development cycle and enter a bugfix phase untill it dies so we know already. This is pathetic. -Messaggio originale- From: Graham Bell Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 11:29 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: RE: Future of Naiad Overnight, Frank Delise (used to head up Max, but now heads our Games Solutions group, fyi, Marc Stevens heads up Film/TV), posted this to the Max underground site Hi all, I wanted to add some color to some of the concerns here. Yes, it was unfortunate that some of our max customer demos got canceled last minute. Siggraph was a bit different for us this year vs previous years. As a corp company, unfortunately we can’t disclose the roadmap of our products anytime we want like the good old days. Not by choice, but by revenue accounting laws. Since our product ship dates are not aligned with Siggraph, this causes us to have limited news to share about our products. This is why we have our own event, the Unfold event. This allows us to share the roadmap that is aligned with ship dates. Then why did Maya show up with some cool stuff this year at Siggraph user event and not max? It just so happens that the technology preview for Maya was ready for Siggraph, whereas the 3ds max work that we are doing is gearing up for a update soon and we will be discussing the details of that in the near future.The timing wasn’t right for Siggraph. Again not always in our control on what trade show they line up to. On the general direction of Maya vs Max, nothing has changed. Maya was designed for entertainment customers whom need a platform to extend. Max was designed for the democratization of content creation for all markets. So Maya may be better for deep pipeline integration, Where Max is good for out of the box
Re: Future of Naiad
Since when did corporate thinking ever make sense? Most are just looking at quarters annual reports to the shareholders. Next year is a new game. -Paul On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Stefan Kubicek s...@tidbit-images.comwrote: Doesn't prevent defense only make sense in games that have a defined end? Am I the only one who thinks of the prevent defense when you look at what Autodesk is doing with the entire Media Entertainment line? For you non-Americans / non-American football fans. The prevent defense is what some coaches use when they are in the lead and the game is near the end. The idea is, maintain the lead and don't make any mistakes. It's an extremely conservative, boring way to try to win a game. A lot of people would say the prevent defense prevents you from winning because you don't try to do anything on offense except not screw up - you don't try to score any more points, you just hold on to the ball and then punt it back to the opposing team - and on defense you allow the opposition to gain ground, hoping that if you give ground, they won't score more points. Meanwhile the other team still wants to win, so they pull out all the stops and try every innovative thing they can think of to score as many points as possible as quickly as possible. I've seen a lot of games that ended badly for the team using the prevent defense. Autodesk has the lead in the market they just want to play prevent defense. Meanwhile Fabric/Creation, Houdini, The Foundry, NewTek, etc., etc., realize the game isn't over. -Paul On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 9:10 AM, Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.com** wrote: Fair dues Greg... Fyi, the 'boss' is Chris Bradshaw. He took over from Marc Petit and Marc and Frank report into him. -Original Message- From: softimage-bounces@listproc.**autodesk.comsoftimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com[mailto: softimage-bounces@listproc.**autodesk.comsoftimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Greg Punchatz Sent: 25 July 2013 14:07 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.**com softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad :( bad choice ... Graham how was that supposed to make any of us feel better.? It almost felt like salt in a wound... I really appreciate that you try to keep us informed, but if you really don't have anything concrete or encouraging to say it might be better to let it rest at this point.. I know you're only the messenger, but there are certain people with a higher pay grade that should be giving us the bad news... Marc Stevens got his job because of us and softimage. Now he is the man behind killing soft and he has left us for dead... From an outsider's position that's exactly what seems to be happening. Who is Marc and the Max guy's boss? I think I might have a few things to say to him. I gave Autodesk more than a fair shake after the purchase. But all of my fears have come true.. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 25, 2013, at 5:17 AM, Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.com wrote: Yes I know, but the original context was around Max, and a post made on a Max site. I posted this just to add some additional info. -Original Message- From: softimage-bounces@listproc.**autodesk.comsoftimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-bounces@**listproc.autodesk.comsoftimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Massimo Galluzzo Sent: 25 July 2013 10:56 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.**comsoftimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad Ok, so why no one speaks about Softimage? Maya, Max, Maya Max, Maya, Max, Maya Max. Just tell us the product will end the development cycle and enter a bugfix phase untill it dies so we know already. This is pathetic. -Messaggio originale- From: Graham Bell Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 11:29 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.**comsoftimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: RE: Future of Naiad Overnight, Frank Delise (used to head up Max, but now heads our Games Solutions group, fyi, Marc Stevens heads up Film/TV), posted this to the Max underground site Hi all, I wanted to add some color to some of the concerns here. Yes, it was unfortunate that some of our max customer demos got canceled last minute. Siggraph was a bit different for us this year vs previous years. As a corp company, unfortunately we can’t disclose the roadmap of our products anytime we want like the good old days. Not by choice, but by revenue accounting laws. Since our product ship dates are not aligned with Siggraph, this causes us to have limited news to share about our products. This is why we have our own event, the Unfold event. This allows us to share the roadmap that is aligned with ship dates. Then why did Maya show up with some cool stuff this year at Siggraph user event and not max? It just so happens
Re: Future of Naiad
I'm pretty sure they know they can't sit out something that never ends. Since when did corporate thinking ever make sense? Most are just looking at quarters annual reports to the shareholders. Next year is a new game. -Paul On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Stefan Kubicek s...@tidbit-images.comwrote: Doesn't prevent defense only make sense in games that have a defined end? Am I the only one who thinks of the prevent defense when you look at what Autodesk is doing with the entire Media Entertainment line? For you non-Americans / non-American football fans. The prevent defense is what some coaches use when they are in the lead and the game is near the end. The idea is, maintain the lead and don't make any mistakes. It's an extremely conservative, boring way to try to win a game. A lot of people would say the prevent defense prevents you from winning because you don't try to do anything on offense except not screw up - you don't try to score any more points, you just hold on to the ball and then punt it back to the opposing team - and on defense you allow the opposition to gain ground, hoping that if you give ground, they won't score more points. Meanwhile the other team still wants to win, so they pull out all the stops and try every innovative thing they can think of to score as many points as possible as quickly as possible. I've seen a lot of games that ended badly for the team using the prevent defense. Autodesk has the lead in the market they just want to play prevent defense. Meanwhile Fabric/Creation, Houdini, The Foundry, NewTek, etc., etc., realize the game isn't over. -Paul On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 9:10 AM, Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.com** wrote: Fair dues Greg... Fyi, the 'boss' is Chris Bradshaw. He took over from Marc Petit and Marc and Frank report into him. -Original Message- From: softimage-bounces@listproc.**autodesk.comsoftimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com[mailto: softimage-bounces@listproc.**autodesk.comsoftimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Greg Punchatz Sent: 25 July 2013 14:07 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.**com softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad :( bad choice ... Graham how was that supposed to make any of us feel better.? It almost felt like salt in a wound... I really appreciate that you try to keep us informed, but if you really don't have anything concrete or encouraging to say it might be better to let it rest at this point.. I know you're only the messenger, but there are certain people with a higher pay grade that should be giving us the bad news... Marc Stevens got his job because of us and softimage. Now he is the man behind killing soft and he has left us for dead... From an outsider's position that's exactly what seems to be happening. Who is Marc and the Max guy's boss? I think I might have a few things to say to him. I gave Autodesk more than a fair shake after the purchase. But all of my fears have come true.. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 25, 2013, at 5:17 AM, Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.com wrote: Yes I know, but the original context was around Max, and a post made on a Max site. I posted this just to add some additional info. -Original Message- From: softimage-bounces@listproc.**autodesk.comsoftimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-bounces@**listproc.autodesk.comsoftimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Massimo Galluzzo Sent: 25 July 2013 10:56 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.**comsoftimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad Ok, so why no one speaks about Softimage? Maya, Max, Maya Max, Maya, Max, Maya Max. Just tell us the product will end the development cycle and enter a bugfix phase untill it dies so we know already. This is pathetic. -Messaggio originale- From: Graham Bell Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 11:29 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.**comsoftimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: RE: Future of Naiad Overnight, Frank Delise (used to head up Max, but now heads our Games Solutions group, fyi, Marc Stevens heads up Film/TV), posted this to the Max underground site Hi all, I wanted to add some color to some of the concerns here. Yes, it was unfortunate that some of our max customer demos got canceled last minute. Siggraph was a bit different for us this year vs previous years. As a corp company, unfortunately we can’t disclose the roadmap of our products anytime we want like the good old days. Not by choice, but by revenue accounting laws. Since our product ship dates are not aligned with Siggraph, this causes us to have limited news to share about our products. This is why we have our own event, the Unfold event. This allows us to share the roadmap that is aligned with ship dates. Then why did Maya show up with some cool stuff this year at Siggraph user event and not max? It just so happens that the technology preview for Maya
Re: Future of Naiad
..a bit like trying to get out of life...alive. Since when did corporate thinking ever make sense? Most are just looking at quarters annual reports to the shareholders. Next year is a new game. -Paul On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Stefan Kubicek s...@tidbit-images.comwrote: Doesn't prevent defense only make sense in games that have a defined end? Am I the only one who thinks of the prevent defense when you look at what Autodesk is doing with the entire Media Entertainment line? For you non-Americans / non-American football fans. The prevent defense is what some coaches use when they are in the lead and the game is near the end. The idea is, maintain the lead and don't make any mistakes. It's an extremely conservative, boring way to try to win a game. A lot of people would say the prevent defense prevents you from winning because you don't try to do anything on offense except not screw up - you don't try to score any more points, you just hold on to the ball and then punt it back to the opposing team - and on defense you allow the opposition to gain ground, hoping that if you give ground, they won't score more points. Meanwhile the other team still wants to win, so they pull out all the stops and try every innovative thing they can think of to score as many points as possible as quickly as possible. I've seen a lot of games that ended badly for the team using the prevent defense. Autodesk has the lead in the market they just want to play prevent defense. Meanwhile Fabric/Creation, Houdini, The Foundry, NewTek, etc., etc., realize the game isn't over. -Paul On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 9:10 AM, Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.com** wrote: Fair dues Greg... Fyi, the 'boss' is Chris Bradshaw. He took over from Marc Petit and Marc and Frank report into him. -Original Message- From: softimage-bounces@listproc.**autodesk.comsoftimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com[mailto: softimage-bounces@listproc.**autodesk.comsoftimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Greg Punchatz Sent: 25 July 2013 14:07 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.**com softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad :( bad choice ... Graham how was that supposed to make any of us feel better.? It almost felt like salt in a wound... I really appreciate that you try to keep us informed, but if you really don't have anything concrete or encouraging to say it might be better to let it rest at this point.. I know you're only the messenger, but there are certain people with a higher pay grade that should be giving us the bad news... Marc Stevens got his job because of us and softimage. Now he is the man behind killing soft and he has left us for dead... From an outsider's position that's exactly what seems to be happening. Who is Marc and the Max guy's boss? I think I might have a few things to say to him. I gave Autodesk more than a fair shake after the purchase. But all of my fears have come true.. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 25, 2013, at 5:17 AM, Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.com wrote: Yes I know, but the original context was around Max, and a post made on a Max site. I posted this just to add some additional info. -Original Message- From: softimage-bounces@listproc.**autodesk.comsoftimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-bounces@**listproc.autodesk.comsoftimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Massimo Galluzzo Sent: 25 July 2013 10:56 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.**comsoftimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad Ok, so why no one speaks about Softimage? Maya, Max, Maya Max, Maya, Max, Maya Max. Just tell us the product will end the development cycle and enter a bugfix phase untill it dies so we know already. This is pathetic. -Messaggio originale- From: Graham Bell Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 11:29 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.**comsoftimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: RE: Future of Naiad Overnight, Frank Delise (used to head up Max, but now heads our Games Solutions group, fyi, Marc Stevens heads up Film/TV), posted this to the Max underground site Hi all, I wanted to add some color to some of the concerns here. Yes, it was unfortunate that some of our max customer demos got canceled last minute. Siggraph was a bit different for us this year vs previous years. As a corp company, unfortunately we can’t disclose the roadmap of our products anytime we want like the good old days. Not by choice, but by revenue accounting laws. Since our product ship dates are not aligned with Siggraph, this causes us to have limited news to share about our products. This is why we have our own event, the Unfold event. This allows us to share the roadmap that is aligned with ship dates. Then why did Maya show up with some cool stuff this year at Siggraph user event and not max? It just so happens that the technology preview for Maya was ready for Siggraph, whereas
Re: Future of Naiad
Amen Sent from my iPhone On Jul 25, 2013, at 8:43 AM, Paul Griswold pgrisw...@fusiondigitalproductions.com wrote: Am I the only one who thinks of the prevent defense when you look at what Autodesk is doing with the entire Media Entertainment line? For you non-Americans / non-American football fans. The prevent defense is what some coaches use when they are in the lead and the game is near the end. The idea is, maintain the lead and don't make any mistakes. It's an extremely conservative, boring way to try to win a game. A lot of people would say the prevent defense prevents you from winning because you don't try to do anything on offense except not screw up - you don't try to score any more points, you just hold on to the ball and then punt it back to the opposing team - and on defense you allow the opposition to gain ground, hoping that if you give ground, they won't score more points. Meanwhile the other team still wants to win, so they pull out all the stops and try every innovative thing they can think of to score as many points as possible as quickly as possible. I've seen a lot of games that ended badly for the team using the prevent defense. Autodesk has the lead in the market they just want to play prevent defense. Meanwhile Fabric/Creation, Houdini, The Foundry, NewTek, etc., etc., realize the game isn't over. -Paul On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 9:10 AM, Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.com wrote: Fair dues Greg... Fyi, the 'boss' is Chris Bradshaw. He took over from Marc Petit and Marc and Frank report into him. -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Greg Punchatz Sent: 25 July 2013 14:07 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad :( bad choice ... Graham how was that supposed to make any of us feel better.? It almost felt like salt in a wound... I really appreciate that you try to keep us informed, but if you really don't have anything concrete or encouraging to say it might be better to let it rest at this point.. I know you're only the messenger, but there are certain people with a higher pay grade that should be giving us the bad news... Marc Stevens got his job because of us and softimage. Now he is the man behind killing soft and he has left us for dead... From an outsider's position that's exactly what seems to be happening. Who is Marc and the Max guy's boss? I think I might have a few things to say to him. I gave Autodesk more than a fair shake after the purchase. But all of my fears have come true.. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 25, 2013, at 5:17 AM, Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.com wrote: Yes I know, but the original context was around Max, and a post made on a Max site. I posted this just to add some additional info. -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Massimo Galluzzo Sent: 25 July 2013 10:56 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad Ok, so why no one speaks about Softimage? Maya, Max, Maya Max, Maya, Max, Maya Max. Just tell us the product will end the development cycle and enter a bugfix phase untill it dies so we know already. This is pathetic. -Messaggio originale- From: Graham Bell Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 11:29 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: RE: Future of Naiad Overnight, Frank Delise (used to head up Max, but now heads our Games Solutions group, fyi, Marc Stevens heads up Film/TV), posted this to the Max underground site Hi all, I wanted to add some color to some of the concerns here. Yes, it was unfortunate that some of our max customer demos got canceled last minute. Siggraph was a bit different for us this year vs previous years. As a corp company, unfortunately we can’t disclose the roadmap of our products anytime we want like the good old days. Not by choice, but by revenue accounting laws. Since our product ship dates are not aligned with Siggraph, this causes us to have limited news to share about our products. This is why we have our own event, the Unfold event. This allows us to share the roadmap that is aligned with ship dates. Then why did Maya show up with some cool stuff this year at Siggraph user event and not max? It just so happens that the technology preview for Maya was ready for Siggraph, whereas the 3ds max work that we are doing is gearing up for a update soon and we will be discussing the details of that in the near future.The timing wasn’t right for Siggraph. Again not always in our control on what trade show they line up to. On the general direction of Maya vs Max, nothing has changed. Maya was designed for entertainment customers
Re: Future of Naiad
Isn't it obvious Autodesk is spending their resources working on a next generation product, post Maya/Softimage/Max? Didn't the Softimage people get shifted onto some faux project within Autodesk? Of course they can't announce anything about that because it would be strategically stupid, and would undercut sales of existing products. (Also agree with Adrian that you'll have to pry Softimage from my cold, dead fingers.) Dave G On 7/25/2013 9:50 AM, Stefan Kubicek wrote: Doesn't prevent defense only make sense in games that have a defined end? Am I the only one who thinks of the prevent defense when you look at what Autodesk is doing with the entire Media Entertainment line? For you non-Americans / non-American football fans. The prevent defense is what some coaches use when they are in the lead and the game is near the end. The idea is, maintain the lead and don't make any mistakes. It's an extremely conservative, boring way to try to win a game. A lot of people would say the prevent defense prevents you from winning because you don't try to do anything on offense except not screw up - you don't try to score any more points, you just hold on to the ball and then punt it back to the opposing team - and on defense you allow the opposition to gain ground, hoping that if you give ground, they won't score more points. Meanwhile the other team still wants to win, so they pull out all the stops and try every innovative thing they can think of to score as many points as possible as quickly as possible. I've seen a lot of games that ended badly for the team using the prevent defense. Autodesk has the lead in the market they just want to play prevent defense. Meanwhile Fabric/Creation, Houdini, The Foundry, NewTek, etc., etc., realize the game isn't over. -Paul On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 9:10 AM, Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.comwrote: Fair dues Greg... Fyi, the 'boss' is Chris Bradshaw. He took over from Marc Petit and Marc and Frank report into him. -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Greg Punchatz Sent: 25 July 2013 14:07 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad :( bad choice ... Graham how was that supposed to make any of us feel better.? It almost felt like salt in a wound... I really appreciate that you try to keep us informed, but if you really don't have anything concrete or encouraging to say it might be better to let it rest at this point.. I know you're only the messenger, but there are certain people with a higher pay grade that should be giving us the bad news... Marc Stevens got his job because of us and softimage. Now he is the man behind killing soft and he has left us for dead... From an outsider's position that's exactly what seems to be happening. Who is Marc and the Max guy's boss? I think I might have a few things to say to him. I gave Autodesk more than a fair shake after the purchase. But all of my fears have come true.. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 25, 2013, at 5:17 AM, Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.com wrote: Yes I know, but the original context was around Max, and a post made on a Max site. I posted this just to add some additional info. -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Massimo Galluzzo Sent: 25 July 2013 10:56 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad Ok, so why no one speaks about Softimage? Maya, Max, Maya Max, Maya, Max, Maya Max. Just tell us the product will end the development cycle and enter a bugfix phase untill it dies so we know already. This is pathetic. -Messaggio originale- From: Graham Bell Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 11:29 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: RE: Future of Naiad Overnight, Frank Delise (used to head up Max, but now heads our Games Solutions group, fyi, Marc Stevens heads up Film/TV), posted this to the Max underground site Hi all, I wanted to add some color to some of the concerns here. Yes, it was unfortunate that some of our max customer demos got canceled last minute. Siggraph was a bit different for us this year vs previous years. As a corp company, unfortunately we can’t disclose the roadmap of our products anytime we want like the good old days. Not by choice, but by revenue accounting laws. Since our product ship dates are not aligned with Siggraph, this causes us to have limited news to share about our products. This is why we have our own event, the Unfold event. This allows us to share the roadmap that is aligned with ship dates. Then why did Maya show up with some cool stuff this year at Siggraph user event and not max? It just so happens that the technology preview for Maya was ready for Siggraph, whereas the 3ds max work that we are doing
RE: Future of Naiad
+1 ... http://www.hackneyeffects.com/https://vimeo.com/user4174293http://www.linkedin.com/pub/andi-farhall/b/496/b21 http://www.flickr.com/photos/lord_hackney/ http://spylon.tumblr.com/ This email and any attachments to it may be confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Hackney Effects Ltd.If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you must neither take any action based upon its contents, nor copy or show it to anyone.Please contact the sender if you believe you have received this email in error. Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 10:23:32 -0400 From: davegsoftimagel...@gmail.com To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad Isn't it obvious Autodesk is spending their resources working on a next generation product, post Maya/Softimage/Max? Didn't the Softimage people get shifted onto some faux project within Autodesk? Of course they can't announce anything about that because it would be strategically stupid, and would undercut sales of existing products. (Also agree with Adrian that you'll have to pry Softimage from my cold, dead fingers.) Dave G On 7/25/2013 9:50 AM, Stefan Kubicek wrote: Doesn't prevent defense only make sense in games that have a defined end? Am I the only one who thinks of the prevent defense when you look at what Autodesk is doing with the entire Media Entertainment line? For you non-Americans / non-American football fans. The prevent defense is what some coaches use when they are in the lead and the game is near the end. The idea is, maintain the lead and don't make any mistakes. It's an extremely conservative, boring way to try to win a game. A lot of people would say the prevent defense prevents you from winning because you don't try to do anything on offense except not screw up - you don't try to score any more points, you just hold on to the ball and then punt it back to the opposing team - and on defense you allow the opposition to gain ground, hoping that if you give ground, they won't score more points. Meanwhile the other team still wants to win, so they pull out all the stops and try every innovative thing they can think of to score as many points as possible as quickly as possible. I've seen a lot of games that ended badly for the team using the prevent defense. Autodesk has the lead in the market they just want to play prevent defense. Meanwhile Fabric/Creation, Houdini, The Foundry, NewTek, etc., etc., realize the game isn't over. -Paul On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 9:10 AM, Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.comwrote: Fair dues Greg... Fyi, the 'boss' is Chris Bradshaw. He took over from Marc Petit and Marc and Frank report into him. -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Greg Punchatz Sent: 25 July 2013 14:07 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad :( bad choice ... Graham how was that supposed to make any of us feel better.? It almost felt like salt in a wound... I really appreciate that you try to keep us informed, but if you really don't have anything concrete or encouraging to say it might be better to let it rest at this point.. I know you're only the messenger, but there are certain people with a higher pay grade that should be giving us the bad news... Marc Stevens got his job because of us and softimage. Now he is the man behind killing soft and he has left us for dead... From an outsider's position that's exactly what seems to be happening. Who is Marc and the Max guy's boss? I think I might have a few things to say to him. I gave Autodesk more than a fair shake after the purchase. But all of my fears have come true.. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 25, 2013, at 5:17 AM, Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.com wrote: Yes I know, but the original context was around Max, and a post made on a Max site. I posted this just to add some additional info. -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Massimo Galluzzo Sent: 25 July 2013 10:56 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad Ok, so why no one speaks about Softimage? Maya, Max, Maya Max, Maya, Max, Maya Max. Just tell us the product will end the development cycle and enter a bugfix phase untill it dies so we know already. This is pathetic. -Messaggio originale
Re: Future of Naiad
I am not sure how many softies are still there...other than Luc Eric Sent from my iPhone On Jul 25, 2013, at 9:23 AM, David Gallagher davegsoftimagel...@gmail.com wrote: Isn't it obvious Autodesk is spending their resources working on a next generation product, post Maya/Softimage/Max? Didn't the Softimage people get shifted onto some faux project within Autodesk? Of course they can't announce anything about that because it would be strategically stupid, and would undercut sales of existing products. (Also agree with Adrian that you'll have to pry Softimage from my cold, dead fingers.) Dave G On 7/25/2013 9:50 AM, Stefan Kubicek wrote: Doesn't prevent defense only make sense in games that have a defined end? Am I the only one who thinks of the prevent defense when you look at what Autodesk is doing with the entire Media Entertainment line? For you non-Americans / non-American football fans. The prevent defense is what some coaches use when they are in the lead and the game is near the end. The idea is, maintain the lead and don't make any mistakes. It's an extremely conservative, boring way to try to win a game. A lot of people would say the prevent defense prevents you from winning because you don't try to do anything on offense except not screw up - you don't try to score any more points, you just hold on to the ball and then punt it back to the opposing team - and on defense you allow the opposition to gain ground, hoping that if you give ground, they won't score more points. Meanwhile the other team still wants to win, so they pull out all the stops and try every innovative thing they can think of to score as many points as possible as quickly as possible. I've seen a lot of games that ended badly for the team using the prevent defense. Autodesk has the lead in the market they just want to play prevent defense. Meanwhile Fabric/Creation, Houdini, The Foundry, NewTek, etc., etc., realize the game isn't over. -Paul On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 9:10 AM, Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.comwrote: Fair dues Greg... Fyi, the 'boss' is Chris Bradshaw. He took over from Marc Petit and Marc and Frank report into him. -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Greg Punchatz Sent: 25 July 2013 14:07 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad :( bad choice ... Graham how was that supposed to make any of us feel better.? It almost felt like salt in a wound... I really appreciate that you try to keep us informed, but if you really don't have anything concrete or encouraging to say it might be better to let it rest at this point.. I know you're only the messenger, but there are certain people with a higher pay grade that should be giving us the bad news... Marc Stevens got his job because of us and softimage. Now he is the man behind killing soft and he has left us for dead... From an outsider's position that's exactly what seems to be happening. Who is Marc and the Max guy's boss? I think I might have a few things to say to him. I gave Autodesk more than a fair shake after the purchase. But all of my fears have come true.. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 25, 2013, at 5:17 AM, Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.com wrote: Yes I know, but the original context was around Max, and a post made on a Max site. I posted this just to add some additional info. -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Massimo Galluzzo Sent: 25 July 2013 10:56 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad Ok, so why no one speaks about Softimage? Maya, Max, Maya Max, Maya, Max, Maya Max. Just tell us the product will end the development cycle and enter a bugfix phase untill it dies so we know already. This is pathetic. -Messaggio originale- From: Graham Bell Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 11:29 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: RE: Future of Naiad Overnight, Frank Delise (used to head up Max, but now heads our Games Solutions group, fyi, Marc Stevens heads up Film/TV), posted this to the Max underground site Hi all, I wanted to add some color to some of the concerns here. Yes, it was unfortunate that some of our max customer demos got canceled last minute. Siggraph was a bit different for us this year vs previous years. As a corp company, unfortunately we can’t disclose the roadmap of our products anytime we want like the good old days. Not by choice, but by revenue accounting laws. Since our product ship dates are not aligned with Siggraph, this causes us to have limited news to share about our products. This is why we have our own event, the Unfold event. This allows us
Re: Future of Naiad
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 6:33 AM, adrian wyer adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com wrote: lets face it, if the AD higher ups can't see that houdini is trousering them in the vfx dept, and that their best hope for a procedural approach to vfx, is to hit the ground running with ICE, then they deserve to be buried by the competition Autodesk is doing the right thing in that context. What they have done with Naiad is add expertise about scalable, distributed, out-of-core simulation that's also platform agnostic, which ICE is not. ICE is a module built deep into XSI that does threaded operations on block of data that reside in XSI's RAM and that's it. At the user group, they did a tech preview of something called Bifrost with its GUI running in Maya, which is the standard linux studio platform, and that's a totally a reasonable thing to do given also its extensive SDK. Things might make more sense if you understand that Naiad was not just a fluid solver, it was meant to be a complete simulation framework, like Houdini. It's not something you plug into ICE, it's an alternative to it.
Re: Future of Naiad
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 10:50 AM, Greg Punchatz g...@janimation.com wrote: I am not sure how many softies are still there...other than Luc Eric there are dozens of Autodesk employees who used to be Softimage employees. You can't swing a dead cat here without hitting one. Not that we swing cats in this manner frequently.
Re: Future of Naiad
Ice is more than a simulation environment ... It's deep ties to the program make it useful for so many more things... Biofrost sounds like its a stand alone app for simulation vs something that could be used for character animation or anything else you can imagine. Can biofrost work in a character set up? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 25, 2013, at 9:45 AM, Luc-Eric Rousseau luceri...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 6:33 AM, adrian wyer adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com wrote: lets face it, if the AD higher ups can't see that houdini is trousering them in the vfx dept, and that their best hope for a procedural approach to vfx, is to hit the ground running with ICE, then they deserve to be buried by the competition Autodesk is doing the right thing in that context. What they have done with Naiad is add expertise about scalable, distributed, out-of-core simulation that's also platform agnostic, which ICE is not. ICE is a module built deep into XSI that does threaded operations on block of data that reside in XSI's RAM and that's it. At the user group, they did a tech preview of something called Bifrost with its GUI running in Maya, which is the standard linux studio platform, and that's a totally a reasonable thing to do given also its extensive SDK. Things might make more sense if you understand that Naiad was not just a fluid solver, it was meant to be a complete simulation framework, like Houdini. It's not something you plug into ICE, it's an alternative to it.
Re: Future of Naiad
Just to add.. ICE is pretty amazing with non simulated trees too ;) On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 11:04 AM, Greg Punchatz g...@janimation.com wrote: Ice is more than a simulation environment ... It's deep ties to the program make it useful for so many more things... Biofrost sounds like its a stand alone app for simulation vs something that could be used for character animation or anything else you can imagine. Can biofrost work in a character set up? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 25, 2013, at 9:45 AM, Luc-Eric Rousseau luceri...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 6:33 AM, adrian wyer adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com wrote: lets face it, if the AD higher ups can't see that houdini is trousering them in the vfx dept, and that their best hope for a procedural approach to vfx, is to hit the ground running with ICE, then they deserve to be buried by the competition Autodesk is doing the right thing in that context. What they have done with Naiad is add expertise about scalable, distributed, out-of-core simulation that's also platform agnostic, which ICE is not. ICE is a module built deep into XSI that does threaded operations on block of data that reside in XSI's RAM and that's it. At the user group, they did a tech preview of something called Bifrost with its GUI running in Maya, which is the standard linux studio platform, and that's a totally a reasonable thing to do given also its extensive SDK. Things might make more sense if you understand that Naiad was not just a fluid solver, it was meant to be a complete simulation framework, like Houdini. It's not something you plug into ICE, it's an alternative to it.
RE: Future of Naiad
Thought Monday might have come around again, but I am going to have to agree with Luceric even if its from a slightly different angle. a) Autodesk is in a position where it is being out maneuvered on pretty much every front. Thats pretty much obvious to everyone. b) They cant release any long term plans because they will Osborne effect themselves out of the industry. So what can they do ? they can start releasing functionality that is to quote from below, scalable, distributed, out-of-core simulation that's also platform agnostic Ie Code that they can do two things with. 1) Keep the legacy apps limping along while occasionally showing cool stuff to keep people excited. Lets be honest of all 3 of their apps Maya does make the most sense to be the first in line. Both Max and Soft image are far too specific in the way they are put together to make changes like this easy to bolt on. Maya is pretty much platform agnostic as it stands. 2) And this is what they need to be doing. They need to be redoing either all 3 apps from the ground up to enable plug and play equally into all. Or they will be combining all 3 into one app which as much as I love Softimage makes better business and technical sense. This having to spread your resources over 3 apps that overlap to large extents is just not sustainable long term. particularly when products like blender are catching them up very quickly. Its only going to take a few people to realize that for a fraction of their ADSK license cost they can pay (donation) the blender devs to implement the exact functionality that they need. So yes they are playing defense to try and hit the end whistle. They have just defined the end whistle as when they are ready to announce they next gen. To me thats the only thing that makes sense with the current actions of their upper management. Admittedly that is working on the basis that they are not being deliberately Stupid. which wouldn't be the first time for Corporate USA ;) Kind regards Angus From: Luc-Eric Rousseau [luceri...@gmail.com] Sent: 25 July 2013 04:45 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 6:33 AM, adrian wyer adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com wrote: lets face it, if the AD higher ups can't see that houdini is trousering them in the vfx dept, and that their best hope for a procedural approach to vfx, is to hit the ground running with ICE, then they deserve to be buried by the competition Autodesk is doing the right thing in that context. What they have done with Naiad is add expertise about scalable, distributed, out-of-core simulation that's also platform agnostic, which ICE is not. ICE is a module built deep into XSI that does threaded operations on block of data that reside in XSI's RAM and that's it. At the user group, they did a tech preview of something called Bifrost with its GUI running in Maya, which is the standard linux studio platform, and that's a totally a reasonable thing to do given also its extensive SDK. Things might make more sense if you understand that Naiad was not just a fluid solver, it was meant to be a complete simulation framework, like Houdini. It's not something you plug into ICE, it's an alternative to it. = table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 style=width:100%; tr td align=left style=text-align:justify;font face=arial,sans-serif size=1 color=#99span style=font-size:11px;This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is confidential. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and destroy the original message. You may not copy or disseminate this communication without the permission of the University. Only authorised signatories are competent to enter into agreements on behalf of the University and recipients are thus advised that the content of this message may not be legally binding on the University and may contain the personal views and opinions of the author, which are not necessarily the views and opinions of The University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All agreements between the University and outsiders are subject to South African Law unless the University agrees in writing to the contrary. /span/font/td /tr /table
RE: Future of Naiad
How does any plugin, module, etc, plugged into a host app, do what ICE can do, and not be platform agnostic? Seems everyone is wanting to create the next ICE, but they are only getting halfway there, because they are trying to be platform agnostic. In the past several weeks I've been using ICE a lot! And very little of it is in the simulated tree. When you realize its power, in its simple ability to do away with a lot of mundane keyframing for overly repetitive tasks or event based conditions, ICE is so much bigger than just a particle simulator. In the past two weeks I find myself frequently hitting limits with what ICE can do, but only because I'm wanting more and more of the SI core and/or other real time parameters and channels exposed, which sadly currently aren't. Can that that level of exposure realistically be done, in any software, while still being platform agnostic? -- Joey Ponthieux LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES) Mymic Technical Services NASA Langley Research Center __ Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not represent the opinions of NASA or any other party. -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Luc-Eric Rousseau Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 10:45 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 6:33 AM, adrian wyer adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com wrote: lets face it, if the AD higher ups can't see that houdini is trousering them in the vfx dept, and that their best hope for a procedural approach to vfx, is to hit the ground running with ICE, then they deserve to be buried by the competition Autodesk is doing the right thing in that context. What they have done with Naiad is add expertise about scalable, distributed, out-of-core simulation that's also platform agnostic, which ICE is not. ICE is a module built deep into XSI that does threaded operations on block of data that reside in XSI's RAM and that's it. At the user group, they did a tech preview of something called Bifrost with its GUI running in Maya, which is the standard linux studio platform, and that's a totally a reasonable thing to do given also its extensive SDK. Things might make more sense if you understand that Naiad was not just a fluid solver, it was meant to be a complete simulation framework, like Houdini. It's not something you plug into ICE, it's an alternative to it.
Re: Future of Naiad
men ! Le 25/07/2013 17:35, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] a écrit : How does any plugin, module, etc, plugged into a host app, do what ICE can do, and not be platform agnostic? Seems everyone is wanting to create the next ICE, but they are only getting halfway there, because they are trying to be platform agnostic. In the past several weeks I've been using ICE a lot! And very little of it is in the simulated tree. When you realize its power, in its simple ability to do away with a lot of mundane keyframing for overly repetitive tasks or event based conditions, ICE is so much bigger than just a particle simulator. In the past two weeks I find myself frequently hitting limits with what ICE can do, but only because I'm wanting more and more of the SI core and/or other real time parameters and channels exposed, which sadly currently aren't. Can that that level of exposure realistically be done, in any software, while still being platform agnostic? -- Joey Ponthieux LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES) Mymic Technical Services NASA Langley Research Center __ Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not represent the opinions of NASA or any other party. -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Luc-Eric Rousseau Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 10:45 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: Future of Naiad On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 6:33 AM, adrian wyer adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com wrote: lets face it, if the AD higher ups can't see that houdini is trousering them in the vfx dept, and that their best hope for a procedural approach to vfx, is to hit the ground running with ICE, then they deserve to be buried by the competition Autodesk is doing the right thing in that context. What they have done with Naiad is add expertise about scalable, distributed, out-of-core simulation that's also platform agnostic, which ICE is not. ICE is a module built deep into XSI that does threaded operations on block of data that reside in XSI's RAM and that's it. At the user group, they did a tech preview of something called Bifrost with its GUI running in Maya, which is the standard linux studio platform, and that's a totally a reasonable thing to do given also its extensive SDK. Things might make more sense if you understand that Naiad was not just a fluid solver, it was meant to be a complete simulation framework, like Houdini. It's not something you plug into ICE, it's an alternative to it.
Re: Future of Naiad
would it be reasonable to say bifrost is the maya fx initiative that we've heard about - aka ICE-like environment inside maya? On 26 July 2013 00:45, Luc-Eric Rousseau luceri...@gmail.com wrote: Things might make more sense if you understand that Naiad was not just a fluid solver, it was meant to be a complete simulation framework, like Houdini. It's not something you plug into ICE, it's an alternative to it.
Re: Future of Naiad
Or maybe they bought it for integration after the Maya FX faillure? --- Ahmidou Lyazidi Director | TD | CG artist http://vimeo.com/ahmidou/videos http://www.cappuccino-films.com 2013/7/26 Chris Gardner chrisg.dot@gmail.com would it be reasonable to say bifrost is the maya fx initiative that we've heard about - aka ICE-like environment inside maya? On 26 July 2013 00:45, Luc-Eric Rousseau luceri...@gmail.com wrote: Things might make more sense if you understand that Naiad was not just a fluid solver, it was meant to be a complete simulation framework, like Houdini. It's not something you plug into ICE, it's an alternative to it.
Re: Future of Naiad
This thread is going places...
Re: Future of Naiad
Well bifrost is a burning rainbow bridge used to open a passage between the world and the realm of the gods. I'm betting that Autodesk is trying to end the world and let the gods roam free smiting all those who dare question Maya. Though this will also reduce their potential user base. On Jul 25, 2013 4:51 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: This thread is going places...
Re: Future of Naiad
Dark places On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Eric Thivierge ethivie...@gmail.comwrote: Well bifrost is a burning rainbow bridge used to open a passage between the world and the realm of the gods. I'm betting that Autodesk is trying to end the world and let the gods roam free smiting all those who dare question Maya. Though this will also reduce their potential user base. On Jul 25, 2013 4:51 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: This thread is going places... -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!
Re: Future of Naiad
No PR department has, in history, ever been able to prevent a cluster of twats from speculating wildly and working themselves into nerd-rage. If one was ever invented it would have to be either an armed force with right to extreme prejudice in applying force, or an act of God, or possibly both. This belongs on a plaque somewhere. Eric Freelance 3D and VFX animator http://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 8:40 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: No PR department has, in history, ever been able to prevent a cluster of twats from speculating wildly and working themselves into nerd-rage. If one was ever invented it would have to be either an armed force with right to extreme prejudice in applying force, or an act of God, or possibly both. Mind, AD is often cryptic and confused in comm beyond what the usual within the quarter corporate rule would excuse, that we can all agree on, but no matter the amount of information that gets rolled out, people will always speculate and work things into re-inforcing whatever scenario they want to believe. On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 10:19 AM, Steven Caron car...@gmail.com wrote: they, you, need a better PR department. it is simple, don't give us reason to speculate so wildly. *written with my thumbs On Jul 24, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.com wrote: I'm saying nothing more, though if anyone wants to pvt me, then feel free. -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!
Re: Future of Naiad
they, you, need a better PR department. it is simple, don't give us reason to speculate so wildly. *written with my thumbs On Jul 24, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.com wrote: I'm saying nothing more, though if anyone wants to pvt me, then feel free.
Re: Future of Naiad
No PR department has, in history, ever been able to prevent a cluster of twats from speculating wildly and working themselves into nerd-rage. If one was ever invented it would have to be either an armed force with right to extreme prejudice in applying force, or an act of God, or possibly both. Mind, AD is often cryptic and confused in comm beyond what the usual within the quarter corporate rule would excuse, that we can all agree on, but no matter the amount of information that gets rolled out, people will always speculate and work things into re-inforcing whatever scenario they want to believe. On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 10:19 AM, Steven Caron car...@gmail.com wrote: they, you, need a better PR department. it is simple, don't give us reason to speculate so wildly. *written with my thumbs On Jul 24, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.com wrote: I'm saying nothing more, though if anyone wants to pvt me, then feel free. -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!
Re: Future of Naiad
agreed, the masses speculate. but what i was trying to say was stop with the 'cryptic and confused' communication... don't show up at an 'autodesk' usergroup meeting and only show one of your five softwares. if you are going to kill the others and put all the money into maya, just effing say so... that's right, corporate rules don't allow, rather you love our money and would hate to see us stop paying you subscription. s On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 5:40 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: Mind, AD is often cryptic and confused in comm beyond what the usual within the quarter corporate rule would excuse, that we can all agree on, but no matter the amount of information that gets rolled out, people will always speculate and work things into re-inforcing whatever scenario they want to believe.
Re: Future of Naiad
Frankly ME AD needs new TOP down leadership It's so beyond broken that no matter how hard the people below them try to show them the light they refuse to look. They still think Flame is still a valid product.. Single threaded piece of poo IMO. I am so surprised they can still sell the product at all, especially for the outrageous prices. There are just a lot of people who have not realized yet that the emperor has no clothes. And Maya is the future of 3d ... A code base nearing or past its 15 year mark... Really? Sorry but I am just not a happy AD customer. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 24, 2013, at 7:19 PM, Steven Caron car...@gmail.com wrote: they, you, need a better PR department. it is simple, don't give us reason to speculate so wildly. *written with my thumbs On Jul 24, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.com wrote: I'm saying nothing more, though if anyone wants to pvt me, then feel free.
Re: Future of Naiad
So they have a scarcely maintained aging PoS they are still managing to sell for gazillions as a high prestige product, and have insofar managed to distract the audience from the fact the emperor is freeballing it, and you'd go to the board asking for the management who's pulling that hat trick off to be replaced? :) They do feel increasingly dysfunctional in their communication and user base management, but so does nearly any large enough media oriented large house these days. Only the Foundry seems to be closer in touch with the top tiers of the VFX industry. It's very possible AD is simply more Adobe than Alias/Soft, and we just can't (nor should we be supposed to) be served by a company with that kind of mentality. All that said, Foundry is doing better than ok and they seem to care a lot for the VFX business at many levels, unlike AD as a larger entity (which you have to remember is NOT Soft or Alias), and pipelines are going atomic with OSS glue, so the days of Maya/Soft/MAX not being required across the whole pipe are upon us already. When you think about it already entire chunks of the pipe in the top end reflect that, and a lot of that is trickling down to the middle, and will soon enough trickle further down again. With Katana + PRMan + Alembic Surfacing and lighting is likely the next bit breaking off the AD continent, much like modelling did already with ZB + Topogun. If Fabric manages to wedge in with splice and slowly abstract things away from Maya and convert it from host to client of platform, that's another big chunk going. There is less every day in an A to B scenario I open Soft or Maya for really. Whether that'll be viable for the small user, given the small user needs the whole stretch of software for himself and doesn't get to divide the expense across departments only needing parts of it like the bigger pipes do, well, that remains to be seen. The monopoly feels less and less like it's going to stay every day though. If you're a small unit or work in a small shop, maybe it's time to stop thinking like they want you to, that you NEED the all in one, and start figuring out how you can re-engineer a staged process into your needs and workflow. I'm succeeding pretty well at home these days, better than I ever expected to. Even as an individual I'm finding the big-arse DCC apps are more and more expensive OGL and graph eval hosts than anything else. This was simply impossible five years ago, We could barely do it at the 300+ staff project scale, now... not so much. On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 11:17 AM, Greg Punchatz g...@janimation.com wrote: Frankly ME AD needs new TOP down leadership It's so beyond broken that no matter how hard the people below them try to show them the light they refuse to look. They still think Flame is still a valid product.. Single threaded piece of poo IMO. I am so surprised they can still sell the product at all, especially for the outrageous prices. There are just a lot of people who have not realized yet that the emperor has no clothes. And Maya is the future of 3d ... A code base nearing or past its 15 year mark... Really? Sorry but I am just not a happy AD customer. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 24, 2013, at 7:19 PM, Steven Caron car...@gmail.com wrote: they, you, need a better PR department. it is simple, don't give us reason to speculate so wildly. *written with my thumbs On Jul 24, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.com wrote: I'm saying nothing more, though if anyone wants to pvt me, then feel free. -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!
Re: Future of Naiad
Ha! Good point on the flame .. I still maintain the emperor has no clothes;) I am a complete believer in atomic software. I think it would allow for greater innovation in each key area. Zbrush proved that to me. I am looking for someone to step up to the plate In the areas of rigging and animation. I'm hoping the guys over at fabric engine might do something for us in that regard. I know much higher frame rates are possible at this point if all a program had to do was to spend it cycles on those two areas, it is absolutely ridiculous that people have to play blast there animations to view to see it at full frame rate IMO. There is no app that focuses squarely on that subject right now. There are countless modeling, painting programs. For myself and and Janimation I want us to move away from the single beast program mentality. I plan to keep soft the glue that keeps it all together for now and the foreseeable near future.. Right now I'm really enjoying learning Mari, I bought that for home because I really don't see any other competition in that area. Because it squarely focused on 3-D paint, it got so many things right. Granted it took till 2.0 before I thought it was good enough to jump on board. Now that I'm there I could not be happier. Clairese looks very interesting to me, it almost seems too good to be true. Arnold keeps me happy when I can use it, as we have a limited license pool for the time being. I love Nuke as well, but I don't know it well enough for my taste yet. Modo has me interested as well, curious how the foundry leverages its render engine. I tried it once and found clunky, but did not give it enough of a chance. I also want us to move to an Alembic pipeline ASAP ... That's the next big thing that I need to get pushed thru at the office. I'm just a bit grumpy on where we sit, I just wish things would've turned out differently. C'est la vie. Sent from someone using his thumbs , Siri, and a healthy dose of dyslexia ... On Jul 24, 2013, at 8:50 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: So they have a scarcely maintained aging PoS they are still managing to sell for gazillions as a high prestige product, and have insofar managed to distract the audience from the fact the emperor is freeballing it, and you'd go to the board asking for the management who's pulling that hat trick off to be replaced? :) They do feel increasingly dysfunctional in their communication and user base management, but so does nearly any large enough media oriented large house these days. Only the Foundry seems to be closer in touch with the top tiers of the VFX industry. It's very possible AD is simply more Adobe than Alias/Soft, and we just can't (nor should we be supposed to) be served by a company with that kind of mentality. All that said, Foundry is doing better than ok and they seem to care a lot for the VFX business at many levels, unlike AD as a larger entity (which you have to remember is NOT Soft or Alias), and pipelines are going atomic with OSS glue, so the days of Maya/Soft/MAX not being required across the whole pipe are upon us already. When you think about it already entire chunks of the pipe in the top end reflect that, and a lot of that is trickling down to the middle, and will soon enough trickle further down again. With Katana + PRMan + Alembic Surfacing and lighting is likely the next bit breaking off the AD continent, much like modelling did already with ZB + Topogun. If Fabric manages to wedge in with splice and slowly abstract things away from Maya and convert it from host to client of platform, that's another big chunk going. There is less every day in an A to B scenario I open Soft or Maya for really. Whether that'll be viable for the small user, given the small user needs the whole stretch of software for himself and doesn't get to divide the expense across departments only needing parts of it like the bigger pipes do, well, that remains to be seen. The monopoly feels less and less like it's going to stay every day though. If you're a small unit or work in a small shop, maybe it's time to stop thinking like they want you to, that you NEED the all in one, and start figuring out how you can re-engineer a staged process into your needs and workflow. I'm succeeding pretty well at home these days, better than I ever expected to. Even as an individual I'm finding the big-arse DCC apps are more and more expensive OGL and graph eval hosts than anything else. This was simply impossible five years ago, We could barely do it at the 300+ staff project scale, now... not so much. On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 11:17 AM, Greg Punchatz g...@janimation.com wrote: Frankly ME AD needs new TOP down leadership It's so beyond broken that no matter how hard the people below them try to show them the light they refuse to look. They still think Flame is still a valid
Re: Future of Naiad
I'm not quite sure I can fault them for not having their own floor space. They were present at some partners', but Siggraph having shifted crowd and attitude a fair bit I'm not sure they would have got a ton of mileage out of their own, not to mention their big news came out months ago with the 2014 releases, and if they have nothing for this quarter they can't basically show anything else. I can see why a big user event and floor presence scattered at other stands would have been a better use of money for them. On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 2:09 PM, Eric Thivierge ethivie...@gmail.comwrote: Speculating from Siggraph not having attended the Autodesk user event knowing they would have nothing of interest to show me, it's apparent they will be discontinuing all DCCs and focusing their efforts selling their new product Autodesk Blender. Frankly i find the absence of Autodesk at the Siggraph floor either arrogant or just plain stupid. Very apparent from all the talks this year that no one is really taking Maya seriously for effects work aside from some bits of naiad. SideFx is taking charge in a big way and have some big stuff coming not including Houdini Engine. Sincerely, Your embedded Siggraph journalist On Jul 24, 2013 8:03 PM, Greg Punchatz g...@janimation.com wrote: Ha! Good point on the flame .. I still maintain the emperor has no clothes;) I am a complete believer in atomic software. I think it would allow for greater innovation in each key area. Zbrush proved that to me. I am looking for someone to step up to the plate In the areas of rigging and animation. I'm hoping the guys over at fabric engine might do something for us in that regard. I know much higher frame rates are possible at this point if all a program had to do was to spend it cycles on those two areas, it is absolutely ridiculous that people have to play blast there animations to view to see it at full frame rate IMO. There is no app that focuses squarely on that subject right now. There are countless modeling, painting programs. For myself and and Janimation I want us to move away from the single beast program mentality. I plan to keep soft the glue that keeps it all together for now and the foreseeable near future.. Right now I'm really enjoying learning Mari, I bought that for home because I really don't see any other competition in that area. Because it squarely focused on 3-D paint, it got so many things right. Granted it took till 2.0 before I thought it was good enough to jump on board. Now that I'm there I could not be happier. Clairese looks very interesting to me, it almost seems too good to be true. Arnold keeps me happy when I can use it, as we have a limited license pool for the time being. I love Nuke as well, but I don't know it well enough for my taste yet. Modo has me interested as well, curious how the foundry leverages its render engine. I tried it once and found clunky, but did not give it enough of a chance. I also want us to move to an Alembic pipeline ASAP ... That's the next big thing that I need to get pushed thru at the office. I'm just a bit grumpy on where we sit, I just wish things would've turned out differently. C'est la vie. Sent from someone using his thumbs , Siri, and a healthy dose of dyslexia ... On Jul 24, 2013, at 8:50 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: So they have a scarcely maintained aging PoS they are still managing to sell for gazillions as a high prestige product, and have insofar managed to distract the audience from the fact the emperor is freeballing it, and you'd go to the board asking for the management who's pulling that hat trick off to be replaced? :) They do feel increasingly dysfunctional in their communication and user base management, but so does nearly any large enough media oriented large house these days. Only the Foundry seems to be closer in touch with the top tiers of the VFX industry. It's very possible AD is simply more Adobe than Alias/Soft, and we just can't (nor should we be supposed to) be served by a company with that kind of mentality. All that said, Foundry is doing better than ok and they seem to care a lot for the VFX business at many levels, unlike AD as a larger entity (which you have to remember is NOT Soft or Alias), and pipelines are going atomic with OSS glue, so the days of Maya/Soft/MAX not being required across the whole pipe are upon us already. When you think about it already entire chunks of the pipe in the top end reflect that, and a lot of that is trickling down to the middle, and will soon enough trickle further down again. With Katana + PRMan + Alembic Surfacing and lighting is likely the next bit breaking off the AD continent, much like modelling did already with ZB + Topogun. If Fabric manages to wedge in with splice and slowly abstract things away from Maya and convert it from host to client of platform, that's another big chunk
