[TruthTalk] Love or Rebuke?
From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Judy wrote:**Jonathan Edwards sermon was said to be effective in that day but I don't know that presenting a God of terror is all that good; and this was not the way Jesus presented Him. Dean writes:Judy have you ever read the sermon"Sinner in the hands of an angry God" byJonathan Edwards? If not you can find it on the Internet-simply do a search.David writes:First of all, I was not talking about presenting a God of terror. Dean writes:2 Cor.5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the lord,we persuade men... **So do you believe that Paul also demeaned sinners and got in ppl's faces with billboards that depicted the terror of God Dean, or are you saying that this scripture justifies the way you do it? Persuading men takes some time and effort. Apparently at the beginning they stayed around to baptise and the ppl they persuaded were told about "what the prophets had warned of" which would have been the day of judgment which is also called "The Day of the Lord" because some of them mentioned it - the incident that comes to mind is when Philip and Peter were preaching Christ in Samaria and Peter rebuked Simon the magician who had just been baptised as a brand new believer because he wanted to purchase the power of God with money (Acts 8:20-23 so Simon's focus still had not changed). But note his response to Peter's rebuke: "Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me" (Acts 8:34). What do you think were the things they had spoken? Judy
[TruthTalk] Essay by Leroy Garrett (something to ponder)
THE UGLINESS OF CHRISTMAS IS ITS BEAUTY [Essay Number 13] "She brought forth her firstborn Son, and wrapped Him in swaddling cloths, and laid Him in a manger, for there was no room for them in the inn."---Lk. 2:7. The first Christmas was not exactly a greeting card setting with all its unreality---snow-covered cottages with bright lights within, Frosty the snowman, peaceful country scenes, mesmerized animals surrounding the Christ child in a sanitized atmosphere. A card that depicted the way it really was might be revolting---a bone-tired pregnant girl, a worried husband, streets crowded with people on an unpopular errand, an indifferent innkeeper, a dark, cold cave crowded with smelly animals, a feeding trough for a cradle. Joseph and Mary had probably walked the eighty miles from Nazareth to Bethlehem, being the poor family they were. If they had a donkey or mule to carry their supplies, there may have been room for Mary to ride part of the time. A pregnant girl on the way to the hospital on a mule! Not exactly like going in a BMW! They would hardly make fifteen miles a day. Other pilgrims, also on their way to Bethlehem to be registered but less burdened, would pass them by. For upwards of a week---night after night---Joseph had to find a place for his wife, heavy with child. He well knew that she might give birth anytime, day or night, along the way. He didn't know that it was in the script---foretold by the prophets---that the child would be born in Bethlehem. The God of heaven moved a pagan king to declare a tax registration in order to move a pregnant girl eighty miles so that she would be at the right place at the right time! But poor Joseph didn't know that. He was one worried husband. The Bethlehem streets were filled with a mix of cultures from far and near. The few who could afford the paltry sum had filled the only inn in town. Even the inn provided only the barest shelter. Guests brought their own bedding and food, and drew their own water. Many were sleeping in the alleys and the streets, huddled around improvised fires. But a woman whose time was near needed to be inside---anywhere. Justin Martyr, who lived within a century of the event, says it was a cave, next to the inn, where the expectant couple took refuge. It housed the animals of those who stayed at the inn. Hardly a place to serve as a delivery room! Like all such caves, particularly one that served as a stable, it was dark, drafty, dirty and dismal. Rats and bats dwell in caves, and pariah dogs scavenger there. Noise from the streets and the inn would be incessant. The animals, even if obnoxious, provided some heat against the cold night. Joseph found a place amidst the straw for Mary. Weary and fatigued, she could at last rest. Heaven had set the stage for the world's most celebrated event. It was December 25, 4 B.C. The eminent Jewish Christian scholar, Alfred Edersheim, says that date is probably correct. Sometime that evening the Christ was born. To a Jewish peasant girl, not a Roman princess. In a stable amidst snorting horses and bellowing oxen, not in a palace with royalty in attendance, including doctors and nurses. In an insignificant village---"the least of the clans of Judah"---not in sophisticated Athens or powerful Rome. He was lovingly and snugly wrapped in long, narrow bands of cloth by his own mother and laid it in a hay trough. He was not wrapped in a royal wool blanket and placed in a gold-studded bassinet stamped with the insignia of a prince. Not exactly the stuff of Christmas cards depicting old English villages, with ladies in sedan-chairs, or a coach bowling merrily along pulled by handsome stallions. Or a plastic tree sprayed with artificial snow and bedecked with flashing lights and all sorts of figurines. It was not the makings for a pretty-pretty little Christmas. It was ugly---the real world of ugly reality. There was bartering in the streets, endless chattering, and the boisterous noise of revelry all night long. The Christ was born into a world of sin, suffering, and sorrow. It began for him that night when but a babe. It persisted all the way to Calvary. There were no heralds in the streets proclaiming the birth of a prince. There was no news bulletin from the high priest's office in Jerusalem, six miles away, and no trumpets blaring from Herod's palace but a short distance from Bethlehem. It was the world's most momentous event, but the world had nothing to say. The press did not cover the story. There was no mention of it in the papers, not even on the back page. But heaven was very aware of what was going on, and God Almighty sent an angel to declare the good news---to lowly shepherds tending their flock a mile or so away! In our culture that would be like breaking "the greatest news story ever" to a gathering of garbage
RE: [TruthTalk] Izzy -You are right.
- Original Message - From: To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 12/20/2003 8:09:27 PM Subject: [TruthTalk] Izzy -You are right. Dean writes: Kevin Her shield is up against us-we are only beating our swords against her shield-But she will lower it to bring one of a different doctrine to her home for dinner on Christmas Day-contrary to the Bible. I think one can help her in time as I consider her to be worth the effort- if she will lower that shield-if not it seems to be a waste of time. But don't let me stop you from trying. Someone really did a number on her. Judy: Where does the Bible say I have to go out of the world and can not have a worldly person to my house? I know it says not to eat with a 'so called brother' who is actively sinning and unrepentant ie: Dean writes: 2 John 7-11 ** Dean 2 John 7-11 addresses travelling teachers who come with the wrong doctrine. These men would stay at ppl's houses and speak to the body in that town. Our Christmas guest is my daughter's friend and he is not coming here as a spiritual teacher. Dean writes:12/21 Judy first you say they don't qualify because they "believe false doctrine" and when I show you that they are also included you say to me now that someone else invited them-sounds like garbage to me.The fact that they are you daughters friends makes the danger greater to your daughter-How do you think my son got pulled away-his friend was corruptmy advice is for you to get her away from that Mormon friend. But I'm sure David will approve of this also for he believes them to be Christians. David if you are proven to allow these Christians to be harmed on purpose-you will most definitely have an enemy for life. --- "But now I have written unto you not to keep company if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such a one no not to eat. For what have I do to to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? Them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person" (1 Cor 5:11,12) The Mormons don't qualify because as you say Dean they believe false doctrine so they are not Christian brothers ... but wait a minute - what is a "railer?" (Strongs 3060) Mischief, abusive, railer, reviler, blackguard. Hmmm would street preachers qualify as 'railers and mischief makers?' I wonder what the Paul would say about climbing flag poles, waving Mormon underwear, and becoming a public curiosity? Grace and Peace, Judy Dean writes: I think Paul would approve 2 Cor.10:4-6 v4. ...,but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds.v5 Casting down imaginations,and every thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God,.. Judy: Dean only thing is that this is our personal responsibility. We are to do this daily for our own lives and this is how our mind is renewed (when we persist). It is impossible to do this for others or out on the street. I don't know how much the signs and truth horns affect ppl or how much of their attention you are able to get in the midst of all the distractions surrounding all of you. Dean writes 12/21 It goes much farther then just a battle in our minds-it involves preaching. I suggest you get a commentary. Concerning Banners Psalm 60:4 Thou hast given a banner to them that fear thee,that it may be displayed because of the truth. Learn to fear him and He may give you one also. -- Dean: Sooner or later meat must be taken-as one cannot survive on milk alone. Judy: I'm not sure where the above fits. Are you speaking of the milk/meat doctrines of Hebrews 6:1,2 like baptisms, laying on of hands, resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment? You think these street ppl are ready for all that Dean? Dean writes 12/21: I don't view it as are the street preachers ready to do that-I view it as is The Holy Ghost ready to do that-but yes as I have seen all of the above performed by the street preachers.
RE: [TruthTalk] Photo of ghost in Henry 8 castle
- Original Message - From: To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 12/20/2003 8:13:31 PM Subject: [TruthTalk] Photo of ghost in Henry 8 castle From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> BTW, what do you mean, exactly, by familiar spirits? Why would a demon from a dead person hang around imitating them for centuries? Certainly they could go inhabit someone else. No ones explanation really seems correct to me. It seems we are missing something in our understanding of them. Izzy Dean writes: I view a familiar spirit as a ghost of some one you know-such as you great uncle or such.The Bible seem to indicate a Fam.Spirit as a spirit that dwells in someone. 2 Chr.33:6 1 CHR.10:13 1 Samuel 28:8 Dean, I looked these up, but they only seem to show that we should not try to contact the dead or use mediums. They dont seem to explain what a familiar spirit is. Izzy **A familiar spirit is a family spirit. One that is generational and familiar with a certain family line. These are the spirits that give information at seances and tell things that only an intimate would know. Dean writes 12/21: I agree with Judy-makes sense-and agrees with the rest of the Bible-to my understanding.
RE: [TruthTalk] *****Ruben/Kevin
> [Original Message] > From: David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 12/20/2003 9:57:49 PM > Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] *Ruben/Kevin > > Dean wrote: > > Why not ask Ruben or Kevin how I treat > > people on the street? > > Hi Dean. Do you think that you treat people on the street with greater > respect than you do DaveH on this list? Just curious how you think > about it. Dean writes12/21: Yes I do to the best of my measure of faith -until they prove to be evil as DaveH has proven to be-then I switch modes and deal with them as workers of iniquity. > > Peace be with you. > David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. > > -- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Izzy -You are right.
- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 12/20/2003 10:35:07 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Izzy -You are right. Biblical separation is not just for in the Church. It is also not isolationism. What fellowship do you plan on having? If it is a way to mingle with the heathen LDS missionaries to witness. But it obviously should not break Gods commands as in 2Co 6:14. 2 Corinthians 6:14-18 plainly states that the believer must not be "unequally yoked together with unbelievers" "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people." James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. - Dean writes 12/21 Kevin do you also see a danger of getting to close to those that serve Satan?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dean writes: Kevin Her shield is up against us-we are only beating our swords against her shield-But she will lower it to bring one of a different doctrine to her home for dinner on Christmas Day-contrary to the Bible. I think one can help her in time as I consider her to be worth the effort- if she will lower that shield-if not it seems to be a waste of time. But don't let me stop you from trying. Someone really did a number on her. Judy: Where does the Bible say I have to go out of the world and can not have a worldly person to my house? I know it says not to eat with a 'so called brother' who is actively sinning and unrepentant ie: Dean writes: 2 John 7-11 ** Dean 2 John 7-11 addresses travelling teachers who come with the wrong doctrine. These men would stay at ppl's houses and speak to the body in that town. Our Christmas guest is my daughter's friend and he is not coming here as a spiritual teacher. "But now I have written unto you not to keep company if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such a one no not to eat. For what have I do to to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? Them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person" (1 Cor 5:11,12) The Mormons don't qualify because as you say Dean they believe false doctrine so they are not Christian brothers ... but wait a minute - what is a "railer?" (Strongs 3060) Mischief, abusive, railer, reviler, blackguard. Hmmm would street preachers qualify as 'railers and mischief makers?' I wonder what the Paul would say about climbing flag poles, waving Mormon underwear, and becoming a public curiosity? Grace and Peace, Judy Dean writes: I think Paul would approve 2 Cor.10:4-6 v4. ...,but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds.v5 Casting down imaginations,and every thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God,.. Judy: Dean only thing is that this is our personal responsibility. We are to do this daily for our own lives and this is how our mind is renewed (when we persist). It is impossible to do this for others or out on the street. I don't know how much the signs and truth horns affect ppl or how much of their attention you are able to get in the midst of all the distractions surrounding all of you. Dean: Sooner or later meat must be taken-as one cannot survive on milk alone. Judy: I'm not sure where the above fits. Are you speaking of the milk/meat doctrines of Hebrews 6:1,2 like baptisms, laying on of hands, resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment? You think these street ppl are ready for all that Dean? Do you Yahoo!?Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
Re: [TruthTalk] HAPPY YULE DAY!!
- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 12/20/2003 10:45:21 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] HAPPY YULE DAY!! Man this MORMON Doctrine is WHACKY! Dean writes 12/21: Don't wish them God speed or good luck or happy new yearetc. Wait a minute did I say that or did St. Paul; say that,or was it Paul only-or did the spirit of God say that?Arsene Lupin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Just zipping by to say happy Holidays and share a bit of my faith to you guys. I wish you the best in the new year that comes!!TPWYULE (O.N. Jól)The Reason for the Season!Yule begins on Mother Night, (about Dec. 20) the night before the shortest day and the longest night (winter solstices). We honor the beginning of the Sun's return and the breaking of Winter, (which is most noticeable in five days) and is celebrated over a twelve day period. We know there will be no Fimbulwinter which proceeds Ragnarok.It is a time of the year when our deceased Ancestors are closest to us; this is when the dead (draugar) are more active than any other time. Yule is when Jólnir another name for Odinn leads the procession of the Wild Hunt through the sky's with sprits of humans, horses and dogs. This procession occurs during all twelve days of Yule.It is a tim e for great feasting, honoring Thorr for driving back the frost jotuns, Frey to give us prosperity in the coming year, Odinn as leader of the Wild Hunt, and of course our Ancestors. Jólablót, have a Yule party with family and kindred. Decorate a tree with sunwheels and light a Yule Log.The Yule Tree is the symbol of our cosmology; its the Great tree Yggdrasil.>From the Voluspa;"Yggdrasil its name.With water white is the Great Tree wet;Thence come the dews that fall in the dales.Green by Urths well does it ever grow."And so the evergreen tree is the most appropriate, to remind us of the eternity of Yggdrasil, as it last through out winters Ever Green.The burning of a Yule Log is an ancient ritual; our ancestors kindled a huge oak log in honor of Thorr. Today we burn a smaller log during the Yule Season. When lighting the new Yule Log it should be with the charred remains of the previous year's log, which is, keep to guard the house against li ghtning and fire.Twelfth Night (about Jan. 1) culminates the traditional twelve days of Yule. Our Ancestors at this time consecrated a boar to Frey, led it out so everyone present could lay their hand on the boar and swear a solemn Oath. This was to honor Frey for prosperity. Oaths sworn on the Oath-Boar are very binding during this time, than any other time of the year. Make a New Year's resolution in the old way by swearing your oath on Frey's boar or on your hammer.The Yule is no exception when it comes to christian plagiarism of other cultures Holidays. There is no doubt that the Yule Tree, Yule Log, the Singing and exchanging of Gifts are from our Northern Culture._Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca--"Let your speech be a lways with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Do you Yahoo!?Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
[TruthTalk] The Basis of Christian Fellowship
From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> [Original Message] > I hope you make some time to answer some of my posts along these lines.> I think the sin lies with those who excommunicate believers for their> theology rather than with someone like Judy who has a Mormon over for> the holidays. Please stick around long enough to talk about it, rather> than just stating your position and running off. Dean writes:As In stated earlier-I will stay around awhile-when last I was here-Ianswered/discussed these topic for over a year (Maybe 2)-How long would youhave me discuss the same issue? When have I ever spoken and run? If youever want me to come back to your site you have my e-mail address? But I amlimited on how much time I can spend with those of false doctrine. Judy: Dean thinking you alone have ALL the "right" doctrine and that nothing YOU believe is false is a point of pride because none of us have the whole loaf (all of Jesus) we are all learners and we need each other. You bind ppl when you lock them into their present state with no hope that they can or will ever change. We changed and hopefully are still changing as we walk this highway of holiness, so why can't they, Lord willing? The Mormon who is coming to our house for Christmas dinner is from a poor family in the Solomon Islands, there are seven sons and the father is a farmer there. This boy was raised 7th Day Adventist because those were the first missionaries to come to his island and apparently the whole island pretty much converted to that sect (I consider 7th Day Adventism to be legalistic and cultish also) but God will use whatever is available. This boy rebelled for some years until the Mormons found him and gave him hope for a future in the secular world. He is studying at their University now. I am not sure that he is permanently locked in to their theology but he practices it for now, I see him as someone with potential for whom Christ died. If God could knock the pharisee Saul off his horse and save him, if He could follow me halfway around the world through years of vanity and pride not giving up on me, then why should I give up on other seemingly hopeless cases? How can I give up on people and cut them off, judging by outward appearance alone? Have you given a lot of prayer and thought to these issues Dean? The NT is not a rule book and His banner over us is love, it is impossible to love people and reject them at the same time. Grace and Peace, Judy
RE: [TruthTalk] *****Ruben/Kevin
If Dean treats them so badly, why do the hang around him? They can easily leave, he won't chase them. Why do they gather in a crowd around him. There was an LDS Missionary with his ID TAG on came repeatedly in spite of people even telling him they would turn him in to the Bishop for just Talking to me. He still came back! I am sure he did not even agree with me, but something (inside him?) drove him to come back time after time, over 2 days! His partner even tried to discourage him from continuing our conversations. Why would someone say they were going to "TURN HIM IN TO THE BISHOP"? Is Mormonism a cult?Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > [Original Message]> From: David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> Date: 12/20/2003 9:57:49 PM> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] *Ruben/Kevin>> Dean wrote:> > Why not ask Ruben or Kevin how I treat > > people on the street?>> Hi Dean. Do you think that you treat people on the street with greater> respect than you do DaveH on this list? Just curious how you think> about it.Dean writes12/21:Yes I do to the best of my measure of faith -until they prove to be evilas DaveH has proven to be-then I switch modes and deal with them as workersof iniquity.>> Peace be with you.> David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.>> --> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you mayknow how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)http://www.InnGlory.org>> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have afriend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] HAPPY YULE DAY!!
From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Man this MORMON Doctrine is WHACKY! Dean writes 12/21: Don't wish them God speed or good luck or happy new yearetc. Wait a minute did I say that or did St. Paul; say that,or was it Paul only-or did the spirit of God say that? Judy: Actually it was the apostle John (the beloved) who said it under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit - but in balance and in context, he was speaking of teachers who travelled within the known Church of that day and whose doctrine was a mess so they were false teachers. Since TPW (Arsene Lupin) is a self confessed pagan he does not qualify as a "false Christian teacher" - and the very same Spirit of God inspired the apostle Paul to write that we are only to judge ourselves and those within the body of Christ or Church - God judges those outside the Church. Worldly people, witches, & pagans. Grace and Peace, Judy Arsene Lupin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Just zipping by to say happy Holidays and share a bit of my faith to you guys. I wish you the best in the new year that comes!!TPWYULE (O.N. Jsl)The Reason for the Season!Yule begins on Mother Night, (about Dec. 20) the night before the shortest day and the longest night (winter solstices). We honor the beginning of the Sun's return and the breaking of Winter, (which is most noticeable in five days) and is celebrated over a twelve day period. We know there will be no Fimbulwinter which proceeds Ragnarok.It is a time of the year when our deceased Ancestors are closest to us; this is when the dead (draugar) are more active than any other time. Yule is when Jslnir another name for Odinn leads the procession of the Wild Hunt through the sky's with sprits of humans, horses and dogs. This procession occurs during all twelve days of Yule.It is a tim e for great feasting, honoring Thorr for driving back the frost jotuns, Frey to give us prosperity in the coming year, Odinn as leader of the Wild Hunt, and of course our Ancestors. Jslablst, have a Yule party with family and kindred. Decorate a tree with sunwheels and light a Yule Log.The Yule Tree is the symbol of our cosmology; its the Great tree Yggdrasil.>From the Voluspa;"Yggdrasil its name.With water white is the Great Tree wet;Thence come the dews that fall in the dales.Green by Urths well does it ever grow."And so the evergreen tree is the most appropriate, to remind us of the eternity of Yggdrasil, as it last through out winters Ever Green.The burning of a Yule Log is an ancient ritual; our ancestors kindled a huge oak log in honor of Thorr. Today we burn a smaller log during the Yule Season. When lighting the new Yule Log it should be with the charred remains of the previous year's log, which is, keep to guard the house against li ghtning and fire.Twelfth Night (about Jan. 1) culminates the traditional twelve days of Yule. Our Ancestors at this time consecrated a boar to Frey, led it out so everyone present could lay their hand on the boar and swear a solemn Oath. This was to honor Frey for prosperity. Oaths sworn on the Oath-Boar are very binding during this time, than any other time of the year. Make a New Year's resolution in the old way by swearing your oath on Frey's boar or on your hammer.The Yule is no exception when it comes to christian plagiarism of other cultures Holidays. There is no doubt that the Yule Tree, Yule Log, the Singing and exchanging of Gifts are from our Northern Culture._Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca--"Let your speech be a lways with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Do you Yahoo!?Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
RE: [TruthTalk] HAPPY YULE DAY!!
Kevin wrote to TPW (The Pagan Wolf): > Man this MORMON Doctrine is WHACKY! For the record, TPW is a pagan, not a Mormon. Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Izzy -You are right.
I can give you a list of Names of Evangelical Christians, who got sucked in (cause they did not know their Bible), who spent years in the LDS Church. LDS Pride themselves on getting baptists to join. The majority of new converts from other are Baptist. People do get sucked in who are saved. They waste years and finally realize they got duped. Then when they leave they have all kinds of connections - (family) some of whom they leave behind, HOW SAD! That is one reason why God warns.Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 12/20/2003 10:35:07 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Izzy -You are right. Biblical separation is not just for in the Church. It is also not isolationism. What fellowship do you plan on having? If it is a way to mingle with the heathen LDS missionaries to witness. But it obviously should not break Gods commands as in 2Co 6:14. 2 Corinthians 6:14-18 plainly states that the believer must not be "unequally yoked together with unbelievers" "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people." James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. - Dean writes 12/21 Kevin do you also see a danger of getting to close to those that serve Satan?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dean writes: Kevin Her shield is up against us-we are only beating our swords against her shield-But she will lower it to bring one of a different doctrine to her home for dinner on Christmas Day-contrary to the Bible. I think one can help her in time as I consider her to be worth the effort- if she will lower that shield-if not it seems to be a waste of time. But don't let me stop you from trying. Someone really did a number on her. Judy: Where does the Bible say I have to go out of the world and can not have a worldly person to my house? I know it says not to eat with a 'so called brother' who is actively sinning and unrepentant ie: Dean writes: 2 John 7-11 ** Dean 2 John 7-11 addresses travelling teachers who come with the wrong doctrine. These men would stay at ppl's houses and speak to the body in that town. Our Christmas guest is my daughter's friend and he is not coming here as a spiritual teacher. "But now I have written unto you not to keep company if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such a one no not to eat. For what have I do to to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? Them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person" (1 Cor 5:11,12) The Mormons don't qualify because as you say Dean they believe false doctrine so they are not Christian brothers ... but wait a minute - what is a "railer?" (Strongs 3060) Mischief, abusive, railer, reviler, blackguard. Hmmm would street preachers qualify as 'railers and mischief makers?' I wonder what the Paul would say about climbing flag poles, waving Mormon underwear, and becoming a public curiosity? Grace and Peace, Judy Dean writes: I think Paul would approve 2 Cor.10:4-6 v4. ...,but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds.v5 Casting down imaginations,and every thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God,.. Judy: Dean only thing is that this is our personal responsibility. We are to do this daily for our own lives and this is how our mind is renewed (when we persist). It is impossible to do this for others or out on the street. I don't know how much the signs and truth horns affect ppl or how much of their attention you are able to get in the midst of all the distractions surrounding all of you. Dean: Sooner or later meat must be taken-as one cannot survive on milk alone. Judy: I'm not sure where the above fits. Are you speaking of the milk/meat doctrines of Hebrews 6:1,2 like baptisms, laying on of hands, resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment? You think these street ppl are ready for all that Dean? Do you Yahoo!?Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
Re: Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] HAPPY YULE DAY!!
Spirit of God inspired the apostle Paul to write that we are only to judge ourselves and those within the body of Christ or Church Only to judge ourselves & those inside the church Where did you get those limits on your judgement? My BIBLE says 1 Co 2:15 "But he that is spiritual judgeth ALL things" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Man this MORMON Doctrine is WHACKY! Dean writes 12/21: Don't wish them God speed or good luck or happy new yearetc. Wait a minute did I say that or did St. Paul; say that,or was it Paul only-or did the spirit of God say that? Judy: Actually it was the apostle John (the beloved) who said it under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit - but in balance and in context, he was speaking of teachers who travelled within the known Church of that day and whose doctrine was a mess so they were false teachers. Since TPW (Arsene Lupin) is a self confessed pagan he does not qualify as a "false Christian teacher" - and the very same Spirit of God inspired the apostle Paul to write that we are only to judge ourselves and those within the body of Christ or Church - God judges those outside the Church. Worldly people, witches, & pagans. Grace and Peace, Judy Arsene Lupin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Just zipping by to say happy Holidays and share a bit of my faith to you guys. I wish you the best in the new year that comes!!TPWYULE (O.N. Jsl)The Reason for the Season!Yule begins on Mother Night, (about Dec. 20) the night before the shortest day and the longest night (winter solstices). We honor the beginning of the Sun's return and the breaking of Winter, (which is most noticeable in five days) and is celebrated over a twelve day period. We know there will be no Fimbulwinter which proceeds Ragnarok.It is a time of the year when our deceased Ancestors are closest to us; this is when the dead (draugar) are more active than any other time. Yule is when Jslnir another name for Odinn leads the procession of the Wild Hunt through the sky's with sprits of humans, horses and dogs. This procession occurs during all twelve days of Yule.It is a tim e for great feasting, honoring Thorr for driving back the frost jotuns, Frey to give us prosperity in the coming year, Odinn as leader of the Wild Hunt, and of course our Ancestors. Jslablst, have a Yule party with family and kindred. Decorate a tree with sunwheels and light a Yule Log.The Yule Tree is the symbol of our cosmology; its the Great tree Yggdrasil.>From the Voluspa;"Yggdrasil its name.With water white is the Great Tree wet;Thence come the dews that fall in the dales.Green by Urths well does it ever grow."And so the evergreen tree is the most appropriate, to remind us of the eternity of Yggdrasil, as it last through out winters Ever Green.The burning of a Yule Log is an ancient ritual; our ancestors kindled a huge oak log in honor of Thorr. Today we burn a smaller log during the Yule Season. When lighting the new Yule Log it should be with the charred remains of the previous year's log, which is, keep to guard the house against li ghtning and fire.Twelfth Night (about Jan. 1) culminates the traditional twelve days of Yule. Our Ancestors at this time consecrated a boar to Frey, led it out so everyone present could lay their hand on the boar and swear a solemn Oath. This was to honor Frey for prosperity. Oaths sworn on the Oath-Boar are very binding during this time, than any other time of the year. Make a New Year's resolution in the old way by swearing your oath on Frey's boar or on your hammer.The Yule is no exception when it comes to christian plagiarism of other cultures Holidays. There is no doubt that the Yule Tree, Yule Log, the Singing and exchanging of Gifts are from our Northern Culture._Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca--"Let your speech be a lways with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Do you Yahoo!?Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
RE: [TruthTalk] Photo of ghost in Henry 8 castle
See red response below: Subject: [TruthTalk] Photo of ghost in Henry 8 castle From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> BTW, what do you mean, exactly, by “familiar spirits”? Why would a demon from a dead person hang around imitating them for centuries? Certainly they could go inhabit someone else. No one’s explanation really seems correct to me. It seems we are missing something in our understanding of them. Izzy Dean writes: I view a familiar spirit as a ghost of some one you know-such as you great uncle or such.The Bible seem to indicate a Fam.Spirit as a spirit that dwells in someone. 2 Chr.33:6 1 CHR.10:13 1 Samuel 28:8 Dean, I looked these up, but they only seem to show that we should not try to contact the dead or use mediums. They don’t seem to explain what a familiar spirit is. Izzy **A familiar spirit is a family spirit. One that is generational and familiar with a certain family line. These are the spirits that give information at seances and tell things that only an intimate would know. Dean writes 12/21: I agree with Judy-makes sense-and agrees with the rest of the Bible-to my understanding. Dean, That still doesn’t answer my question. Why would they want to go around haunting a specific location, mostly undetected, and imitate a dead person? Why wouldn’t they just go indwell another living body/soul? Obviously they prefer living in a body; even in an animal body. Is it possible that these really are the souls of the lost, stuck on this earth for some reason, perhaps awaiting Judgment Day? Or is it possible that we don’t understand Time correctly, as God can see everything at once? Our understanding is SO limited! (As you can see, I don’t always accept the common beliefs simply because everyone else does unless I can verify it in the Word—I like to explore other possibilities if it doesn’t seem absolutely sure. J ) Any enquiring scientific minds out there??? Izzy Matthew 8:31 The demons began to entreat Him, saying, "If You are going to cast us out, send us into the herd of swine."
RE: [TruthTalk] HAPPY YULE DAY!!
I was just trying to be facetious, apparently not very well. It did not take long reading the post to see it was Pagan. LDS do point to PAGANISM as a source of truth. I was round about pointing out they both are whacky doctrines. LDS are very PAGAN!David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Kevin wrote to TPW (The Pagan Wolf):> Man this MORMON Doctrine is WHACKY!For the record, TPW is a pagan, not a Mormon.Peace be with you.David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
RE: [TruthTalk] Izzy -You are right.
Watch out that those around you do not get decieved. I have seen christians talk to LDS decievers who full well knew what they were doing, in concealing the "meat" The christians could not find the differences, till someone who knew LDS doctrine drew them out. Here is part of an email I just recieved from a Frantic MOTHER Please send in the mail to me, Information about Mormon Teachings, Baptism for the Dead, Pray about the Book of Mormon , Mormon Priesthood, Eternal Marriage and etc!!! Thank-You!!! I have a Son who is a Baptized Mormon! Unfortunately it is a little late to learn LDS doctrine for her now. A friend out west was concerned for his cousin who was being visited by LDS missionaries. He sat in on one of their visits. LDS missionaries FLAT OUT DENIED LDS doctrine, when asked by him. He jumped on the computer printed out some quotes. When confronted by the quotes in front of his cousin, the LDS Missionary BLEW UP, and said "She is not ready for the meat yet"Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: - Original Message - From: To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 12/20/2003 8:09:27 PM Subject: [TruthTalk] Izzy -You are right. Dean writes: Kevin Her shield is up against us-we are only beating our swords against her shield-But she will lower it to bring one of a different doctrine to her home for dinner on Christmas Day-contrary to the Bible. I think one can help her in time as I consider her to be worth the effort- if she will lower that shield-if not it seems to be a waste of time. But don't let me stop you from trying. Someone really did a number on her. Judy: Where does the Bible say I have to go out of the world and can not have a worldly person to my house? I know it says not to eat with a 'so called brother' who is actively sinning and unrepentant ie: Dean writes: 2 John 7-11 ** Dean 2 John 7-11 addresses travelling teachers who come with the wrong doctrine. These men would stay at ppl's houses and speak to the body in that town. Our Christmas guest is my daughter's friend and he is not coming here as a spiritual teacher. Dean writes:12/21 Judy first you say they don't qualify because they "believe false doctrine" and when I show you that they are also included you say to me now that someone else invited them-sounds like garbage to me.The fact that they are you daughters friends makes the danger greater to your daughter-How do you think my son got pulled away-his friend was corruptmy advice is for you to get her away from that Mormon friend. But I'm sure David will approve of this also for he believes them to be Christians. David if you are proven to allow these Christians to be harmed on purpose-you will most definitely have an enemy for life. --- "But now I have written unto you not to keep company if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such a one no not to eat. For what have I do to to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? Them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person" (1 Cor 5:11,12) The Mormons don't qualify because as you say Dean they believe false doctrine so they are not Christian brothers ... but wait a minute - what is a "railer?" (Strongs 3060) Mischief, abusive, railer, reviler, blackguard. Hmmm would street preachers qualify as 'railers and mischief makers?' I wonder what the Paul would say about climbing flag poles, waving Mormon underwear, and becoming a public curiosity? Grace and Peace, Judy Dean writes: I think Paul would approve 2 Cor.10:4-6 v4. ...,but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds.v5 Casting down imaginations,and every thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God,.. Judy: Dean only thing is that this is our personal responsibility. We are to do this daily for our own lives and this is how our mind is renewed (when we persist). It is impossible to do this for others or out on the street. I don't know how much the signs and truth horns affect ppl or how much of their attention you are able to get in the midst of all the distractions surrounding all of you. Dean writes 12/21 It goes much farther then just a battle in our minds-it involves preaching. I suggest you get a commentary. Concerning Banners Psalm 60:4 Thou hast given a banner to them that fear thee,that it may be displayed because of the truth. Learn to fear him and He may give you one also. -- Dean: Sooner or later meat must be taken-as one cannot survive on milk alone. Judy: I'm not sure where the above fits. Are you speaking of the milk/meat doctrines of Hebrews 6:1,2 like baptisms, laying on of hands, resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment? You think these street ppl are re
RE: [TruthTalk] Izzy -You are right.
Kevin, That’s why LDS (and Scientologists) have “secret” ceremonies, etc. If the undoctrinated heard how RIDICULOUS their core beliefs are they would laugh themselves silly! So the uninitiated have to be treated like boiling a frog: just turn up the heat inch by inch so they won’t notice the gradual changes. “Meat” indeed—ROTTEN meat! Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 7:49 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Izzy -You are right. Watch out that those around you do not get decieved. I have seen christians talk to LDS decievers who full well knew what they were doing, in concealing the "meat" The christians could not find the differences, till someone who knew LDS doctrine drew them out. Here is part of an email I just recieved from a Frantic MOTHER Please send in the mail to me, Information about Mormon Teachings, Baptism for the Dead, Pray about the Book of Mormon , Mormon Priesthood, Eternal Marriage and etc!!! Thank-You!!! I have a Son who is a Baptized Mormon! Unfortunately it is a little late to learn LDS doctrine for her now. A friend out west was concerned for his cousin who was being visited by LDS missionaries. He sat in on one of their visits. LDS missionaries FLAT OUT DENIED LDS doctrine, when asked by him. He jumped on the computer printed out some quotes. When confronted by the quotes in front of his cousin, the LDS Missionary BLEW UP, and said "She is not ready for the meat yet" Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: - Original Message - From: To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 12/20/2003 8:09:27 PM Subject: [TruthTalk] Izzy -You are right. Dean writes: Kevin Her shield is up against us-we are only beating our swords against her shield-But she will lower it to bring one of a different doctrine to her home for dinner on Christmas Day-contrary to the Bible. I think one can help her in time as I consider her to be worth the effort- if she will lower that shield-if not it seems to be a waste of time. But don't let me stop you from trying. Someone really did a number on her. Judy: Where does the Bible say I have to go out of the world and can not have a worldly person to my house? I know it says not to eat with a 'so called brother' who is actively sinning and unrepentant ie: Dean writes: 2 John 7-11 ** Dean 2 John 7-11 addresses travelling teachers who come with the wrong doctrine. These men would stay at ppl's houses and speak to the body in that town. Our Christmas guest is my daughter's friend and he is not coming here as a spiritual teacher. Dean writes:12/21 Judy first you say they don't qualify because they "believe false doctrine" and when I show you that they are also included you say to me now that someone else invited them-sounds like garbage to me.The fact that they are you daughters friends makes the danger greater to your daughter-How do you think my son got pulled away-his friend was corruptmy advice is for you to get her away from that Mormon friend. But I'm sure David will approve of this also for he believes them to be Christians. David if you are proven to allow these Christians to be harmed on purpose-you will most definitely have an enemy for life. --- "But now I have written unto you not to keep company if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such a one no not to eat. For what have I do to to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? Them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person" (1 Cor 5:11,12) The Mormons don't qualify because as you say Dean they believe false doctrine so they are not Christian brothers ... but wait a minute - what is a "railer?" (Strongs 3060) Mischief, abusive, railer, reviler, blackguard. Hmmm would street preachers qualify as 'railers and mischief makers?' I wonder what the Paul would say about climbing flag poles, waving Mormon underwear, and becoming a public curiosity? Grace and Peace, Judy Dean writes: I think Paul would approve 2 Cor.10:4-6 v4. ...,but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds.v5 Casting down imaginations,and every thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God,.. Judy: Dean only thing is that this is our personal responsibility. We are to do this daily for our own lives and this is how our mind is renewed (when we persist). It is impossible to do this for others or out on the street. I don't know how much the signs and truth horns affect ppl or how much of their attention you are able to get in the midst of all the distractions surrounding all of you. Dean writes 12/21 It goes muc
Re: [TruthTalk] I found it Blaine...but you lost it
What exactly is so BAD about a PUBLIC display of Temple attire? Why also is the LDS HIGH PRIEST who asualted one of the "preachers", called a HERO by the LDS? I call that a THUG! My pastor would not asault someone for holding underwear? Is this how yor HIGH PRIESTS behave? Why the BIG Play on the emotions of others to try and pressure us to stop? When that failed why the pressure thru city hall to write City ordinances to silence our speech & put away our signs & consign us to a location up the street? We are getting through to LDS and the Church will do anything to silence us. This includes FALSE news stories in the Church owned papers & TV stations. Back room meetings with City government officials who are LDS. It also Includes, PHYSICAL ASUALT by LDS BOUNCERS (those security guards with cameras & the little ear pieces like secret service) intimidation, & death threats. What a wonderful community Salt Lake. I really like the FITHY language of the LDS priests at the priesthood meetings. I have to go to the drunk crowd at the Mardi Gras to get the same filthy language. Of all the other events even the UN Churched do not speak like that priesthood crowd. I even have tape of some Priest saying G D Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: David Miller wrote:> Generally speaking, however, I don't think street preachers go out of> their way to be disrespectful. There are always exceptions.DAVEH: Would you think the public display of the street preachers in SLC waving LDS underwear is one of those exceptions?>>> Peace be with you.> David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.>--~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain Five email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
[TruthTalk] Izzy -You are right.
From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Dean writes: Kevin Her shield is up against us-we are only beating our swords against her shield-But she will lower it to bring one of a different doctrine to her home for dinner on Christmas Day-contrary to the Bible. I think one can help her in time as I consider her to be worth the effort- if she will lower that shield-if not it seems to be a waste of time. But don't let me stop you from trying. Someone really did a number on her. Judy: Where does the Bible say I have to go out of the world and can not have a worldly person to my house? I know it says not to eat with a 'so called brother' who is actively sinning and unrepentant ie: Dean writes: 2 John 7-11 ** Dean 2 John 7-11 addresses travelling teachers who come with the wrong doctrine. These men would stay at ppl's houses and speak to the body in that town. Our Christmas guest is my daughter's friend and he is not coming here as a spiritual teacher. Dean writes:12/21 - Judy first you say they don't qualify because they "believe false doctrine" and when I show you that they are also included you say to me now that someone else invited them-sounds like garbage to me.The fact that they are you daughters friends makes the danger greater to your daughter-How do you think my son got pulled away-his friend was corrupt my advice is for you to get her away from that Mormon friend. But I'm sure David will approve of this also for he believes them to be Christians. David if you are proven to allow these Christians to be harmed on purpose-you will most definitely have an enemy for life. Judy - Dean this is one person and my daughter is an adult. Too late for me to choose her friends for her, she knows the truth and she will bear full responsibility for her choices in life. I am presently trusting the Lord to lead her. I think you are being too hard on DavidM. I have not read that he believes Mormons to be Christian, just that he finds dialogue with them interesting. I am aware of our differences but I find them intelligent and respectful also. We don't need to fear their influence when we are the ones who have the truth. Jesus chose to go through Samaria and speak to that woman at the well didn't He? at a time when the Jews had completely separated themselves and viewed the Samaritans as "UNCLEAN" Look how I've learned to change text colors from DaveH it's fun - so all has not been a total loss even if he never embraces my Lord and Savior which is my hope and prayer for him. I wrote: "But now I have written unto you not to keep company if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such a one no not to eat. For what have I do to to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? Them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person" (1 Cor 5:11,12) The Mormons don't qualify because as you say Dean they believe false doctrine so they are not Christian brothers ... but wait a minute - what is a "railer?" (Strongs 3060) Mischief, abusive, railer, reviler, blackguard. Hmmm would street preachers qualify as 'railers and mischief makers?' I wonder what the Paul would say about climbing flag poles, waving Mormon underwear, and becoming a public curiosity? Grace and Peace, Judy Dean writes: I think Paul would approve 2 Cor.10:4-6 v4. ...,but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds.v5 Casting down imaginations,and every thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God,.. Judy: Dean only thing is that this is our personal responsibility. We are to do this daily for our own lives and this is how our mind is renewed (when we persist). It is impossible to do this for others or out on the street. I don't know how much the signs and truth horns affect ppl or how much of their attention you are able to get in the midst of all the distractions surrounding all of you. Dean writes 12/21 It goes much farther then just a battle in our minds-it involves preaching. I suggest you get a commentary. Concerning Banners Psalm 60:4 - Thou hast given a banner to them that fear thee,that it may be displayed because of the truth. Learn to fear him and He may give you one also. Judy: I don't know what Commentary you are reading Dean but ensigns/standards are an OT thing, in Numbers they were told to put them where the tribes were to camp and they were used to lead armies into battle, this is what David refers to in
[TruthTalk] HAPPY YULE DAY!!
From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Spirit of God inspired the apostle Paul to write that we are only to judge ourselves and those within the body of Christ or Church Only to judge ourselves & those inside the church Where did you get those limits on your judgement? My BIBLE says 1 Co 2:15 "But he that is spiritual judgeth ALL things" Judy: As DavidM has been trying to communicate there is a difference between judging people and judging doctrine/ideas. Sure those who are spiritual are qualified to judge ALL things and you can know where a person is at. Discipline should be a priority in the Church but scripture does not give carte blanche permission to Christians to judge all people - those outside the Church are God's responsibility - We are to speak the Truth to them in love as God gives the opportunity and leave the results with Him, He deals with them. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Man this MORMON Doctrine is WHACKY! Dean writes 12/21: Don't wish them God speed or good luck or happy new yearetc. Wait a minute did I say that or did St. Paul; say that,or was it Paul only-or did the spirit of God say that? Judy: Actually it was the apostle John (the beloved) who said it under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit - but in balance and in context, he was speaking of teachers who travelled within the known Church of that day and whose doctrine was a mess so they were false teachers. Since TPW (Arsene Lupin) is a self confessed pagan he does not qualify as a "false Christian teacher" - and the very same Spirit of God inspired the apostle Paul to write that we are only to judge ourselves and those within the body of Christ or Church - God judges those outside the Church. Worldly people, witches, & pagans. Grace and Peace, Judy Arsene Lupin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Just zipping by to say happy Holidays and share a bit of my faith to you guys. I wish you the best in the new year that comes!!TPWYULE (O.N. Jsl)The Reason for the Season!Yule begins on Mother Night, (about Dec. 20) the night before the shortest day and the longest night (winter solstices). We honor the beginning of the Sun's return and the breaking of Winter, (which is most noticeable in five days) and is celebrated over a twelve day period. We know there will be no Fimbulwinter which proceeds Ragnarok.It is a time of the year when our deceased Ancestors are closest to us; this is when the dead (draugar) are more active than any other time. Yule is when Jslnir another name for Odinn leads the procession of the Wild Hunt through the sky's with sprits of humans, horses and dogs. This procession occurs during all twelve days of Yule.It is a tim e for great feasting, honoring Thorr for driving back the frost jotuns, Frey to give us prosperity in the coming year, Odinn as leader of the Wild Hunt, and of course our Ancestors. Jslablst, have a Yule party with family and kindred. Decorate a tree with sunwheels and light a Yule Log.The Yule Tree is the symbol of our cosmology; its the Great tree Yggdrasil.>From the Voluspa;"Yggdrasil its name.With water white is the Great Tree wet;Thence come the dews that fall in the dales.Green by Urths well does it ever grow."And so the evergreen tree is the most appropriate, to remind us of the eternity of Yggdrasil, as it last through out winters Ever Green.The burning of a Yule Log is an ancient ritual; our ancestors kindled a huge oak log in honor of Thorr. Today we burn a smaller log during the Yule Season. When lighting the new Yule Log it should be with the charred remains of the previous year's log, which is, keep to guard the house against li ghtning and fire.Twelfth Night (about Jan. 1) culminates the traditional twelve days of Yule. Our Ancestors at this time consecrated a boar to Frey, led it out so everyone present could lay their hand on the boar and swear a solemn Oath. This was to honor Frey for prosperity. Oaths sworn on the Oath-Boar are very binding during this time, than any other time of the year. Make a New Year's resolution in the old way by swearing your oath on Frey's boar or on your hammer.The Yule is no exception when it comes to christian plagiarism of other cultures Holidays. There is no doubt that the Yule Tree, Yule Log, the Singing and exchanging of Gifts are from our Northern Culture._Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-c
[TruthTalk] The Meat/Kevin
From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Watch out that those around you do not get decieved. I have seen christians talk to LDS decievers who full well knew what they were doing, in concealing the "meat" The christians could not find the differences, till someone who knew LDS doctrine drew them out. Here is part of an email I just recieved from a Frantic MOTHER - Judy: How sad but then God has warned that He will allow false prophets to test the hearts of His people. I remember being amused when I read about Martin Luther's response to the teachings of Aristotle (which BTW the RCC loves, Thomas Aquinas mixed Aristotle with scripture and this is part of their Holy tradition). Luther called Aristotle a pagan wretch and claimed that the church of his (Luther's) day was more interested in Aristotle's sayings than they were in the sayings of Christ himself, he believed that God had made Aristotle a plague to them on account of their sin. Look at what is happening in our day. I think it was you Kevin who noted that Baptists are the easiest denomination that Mormons find to convert - I am not surprised. To begin with Baptists are many times converted by a Calvinistic theology which assures them after they say their prayer that "once saved is always saved" so they happily go on their way making little or no effort to study and hide God's Word in their hearts. They are taught that salvation is a one time affair rather than a daily walk of grace and so they are ignorant of the warfare they have entered into and don't know how to stand in the day of trouble. The state of the Church today is our sin - Do you think God may have made the Mormons a plague on account of OUR sin? because as you point out, it is now a bit late for that mother to warn her son. Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dean writes: Kevin Her shield is up against us-we are only beating our swords against her shield-But she will lower it to bring one of a different doctrine to her home for dinner on Christmas Day-contrary to the Bible. I think one can help her in time as I consider her to be worth the effort- if she will lower that shield-if not it seems to be a waste of time. But don't let me stop you from trying. Someone really did a number on her. Judy: Where does the Bible say I have to go out of the world and can not have a worldly person to my house? I know it says not to eat with a 'so called brother' who is actively sinning and unrepentant ie: Dean writes: 2 John 7-11 ** Dean 2 John 7-11 addresses travelling teachers who come with the wrong doctrine. These men would stay at ppl's houses and speak to the body in that town. Our Christmas guest is my daughter's friend and he is not coming here as a spiritual teacher. Dean writes:12/21 Judy first you say they don't qualify because they "believe false doctrine" and when I show you that they are also included you say to me now that someone else invited them-sounds like garbage to me.The fact that they are you daughters friends makes the danger greater to your daughter-How do you think my son got pulled away-his friend was corruptmy advice is for you to get her away from that Mormon friend. But I'm sure David will approve of this also for he believes them to be Christians. David if you are proven to allow these Christians to be harmed on purpose-you will most definitely have an enemy for life. --- "But now I have written unto you not to keep company if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such a one no not to eat. For what have I do to to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? Them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person" (1 Cor 5:11,12) The Mormons don't qualify because as you say Dean they believe false doctrine so they are not Christian brothers ... but wait a minute - what is a "railer?" (Strongs 3060) Mischief, abusive, railer, reviler, blackguard. Hmmm would street preachers qualify as 'railers and mischief makers?' I wonder what the Paul would say about climbing flag poles, waving Mormon underwear, and becoming a public curiosity? Grace and Peace, Judy Dean writes: I think Paul would approve 2 Cor.10:4-6 v4. ...,but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds.v5 Casting down imaginations,and every thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God,.. Judy: Dean only thing is that thi
[TruthTalk] I didn't do that freaking email
The best argument I've heard yet for Believers to NOT have a Christmas tree. TPW, did you ever actually answer David Miller's question directly when he asked if you were the one who sent the lewd and threatening email regarding his daughter? Until you actually deny this I will not talk to you. You have only insinuated that you did not, to my observance. Izzy Izzy: I got waay too much class to be lewd!! AND NO I DIDN'T SEND THAT FREAKING E-MAIL!! On that note, Happy Holidays!! TPW _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/photos&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] I didn't do that freaking email
AP, TPW, why do you not reveal your real name as most of the TT'rs have. Is there something you're afraid of, or are you hiding from someone or something? >From: "Arsene Lupin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: [TruthTalk] I didn't do that freaking email >Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 14:42:30 + > > >>The best argument I've heard yet for Believers to NOT have a >>Christmas tree. >>TPW, did you ever actually answer David Miller's question directly >>when he >>asked if you were the one who sent the lewd and threatening email >>regarding >>his daughter? Until you actually deny this I will not talk to you. >>You have >>only insinuated that you did not, to my observance. Izzy > >Izzy: I got waay too much class to be lewd!! AND NO I DIDN'T SEND >THAT FREAKING E-MAIL!! > >On that note, Happy Holidays!! > >TPW > >_ >Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/photos&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca > >-- >"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you >may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) >http://www.InnGlory.org > >If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you >have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Working moms: Find helpful tips here on managing kids, home, work and yourself. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: **Possible_Spam** [TruthTalk] Essay by Leroy Garrett (something to ponder)
Thanks Judy. Iwill save this one and forward it to many others. Terry - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 5:33 AM Subject: **Possible_Spam** [TruthTalk] Essay by Leroy Garrett (something to ponder) THE UGLINESS OF CHRISTMAS IS ITS BEAUTY [Essay Number 13] "She brought forth her firstborn Son, and wrapped Him in swaddling cloths, and laid Him in a manger, for there was no room for them in the inn."---Lk. 2:7. The first Christmas was not exactly a greeting card setting with all its unreality---snow-covered cottages with bright lights within, Frosty the snowman, peaceful country scenes, mesmerized animals surrounding the Christ child in a sanitized atmosphere. A card that depicted the way it really was might be revolting---a bone-tired pregnant girl, a worried husband, streets crowded with people on an unpopular errand, an indifferent innkeeper, a dark, cold cave crowded with smelly animals, a feeding trough for a cradle. Joseph and Mary had probably walked the eighty miles from Nazareth to Bethlehem, being the poor family they were. If they had a donkey or mule to carry their supplies, there may have been room for Mary to ride part of the time. A pregnant girl on the way to the hospital on a mule! Not exactly like going in a BMW! They would hardly make fifteen miles a day. Other pilgrims, also on their way to Bethlehem to be registered but less burdened, would pass them by. For upwards of a week---night after night---Joseph had to find a place for his wife, heavy with child. He well knew that she might give birth anytime, day or night, along the way. He didn't know that it was in the script---foretold by the prophets---that the child would be born in Bethlehem. The God of heaven moved a pagan king to declare a tax registration in order to move a pregnant girl eighty miles so that she would be at the right place at the right time! But poor Joseph didn't know that. He was one worried husband. The Bethlehem streets were filled with a mix of cultures from far and near. The few who could afford the paltry sum had filled the only inn in town. Even the inn provided only the barest shelter. Guests brought their own bedding and food, and drew their own water. Many were sleeping in the alleys and the streets, huddled around improvised fires. But a woman whose time was near needed to be inside---anywhere. Justin Martyr, who lived within a century of the event, says it was a cave, next to the inn, where the expectant couple took refuge. It housed the animals of those who stayed at the inn. Hardly a place to serve as a delivery room! Like all such caves, particularly one that served as a stable, it was dark, drafty, dirty and dismal. Rats and bats dwell in caves, and pariah dogs scavenger there. Noise from the streets and the inn would be incessant. The animals, even if obnoxious, provided some heat against the cold night. Joseph found a place amidst the straw for Mary. Weary and fatigued, she could at last rest. Heaven had set the stage for the world's most celebrated event. It was December 25, 4 B.C. The eminent Jewish Christian scholar, Alfred Edersheim, says that date is probably correct. Sometime that evening the Christ was born. To a Jewish peasant girl, not a Roman princess. In a stable amidst snorting horses and bellowing oxen, not in a palace with royalty in attendance, including doctors and nurses. In an insignificant village---"the least of the clans of Judah"---not in sophisticated Athens or powerful Rome. He was lovingly and snugly wrapped in long, narrow bands of cloth by his own mother and laid it in a hay trough. He was not wrapped in a royal wool blanket and placed in a gold-studded bassinet stamped with the insignia of a prince. Not exactly the stuff of Christmas cards depicting old English villages, with ladies in sedan-chairs, or a coach bowling merrily along pulled by handsome stallions. Or a plastic tree sprayed with artificial snow and bedecked with flashing lights and all sorts of figurines. It was not the makings for a pretty-pretty little Christmas. It was ugly---the real world of ugly reality. There was bartering in the streets, endless chattering, and the boisterous noise of revelry all night long. The Christ was born into a world of sin, suffering, and sorrow. It began for him that night when but a babe. It persisted all the way to Calvary. There were no heralds in the streets proclaiming the birth of a prince. There was no news bulletin from the high priest's office in Jerusalem, six miles away, and no trumpets blaring from Herod's palace but a short distance
[TruthTalk] I found it Blaine...but you lost it
From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> What exactly is so BAD about a PUBLIC display of Temple attire? Judy: It is like getting in someone's face and telling them they are 'a dirty, rotten, sinner' kind of like Holy Hubert did. There is a difference between holding up Christ as an ensign - like the picture in the wilderness where the ppl who were snake bitten looked and were healed and waving Mormon underwear which would put their backs up and put them on the defensive immediately. I don't see that as being too smart. You can win small battles and lose the war. Why also is the LDS HIGH PRIEST who asualted one of the "preachers", called a HERO by the LDS? I call that a THUG! My pastor would not asault someone for holding underwear? Is this how yor HIGH PRIESTS behave? Judy: You fellows were tweaking him on purpose Kevin and his reaction was violent because to him those garments are sacred whether it makes any sense to you or not. Why the BIG Play on the emotions of others to try and pressure us to stop? When that failed why the pressure thru city hall to write City ordinances to silence our speech & put away our signs & consign us to a location up the street? Judy: How is it you can't understand this Kevin? Put yourself in their shoes ... This is the kind of thing that in the long run will bring the wrong kind of attention to all religions, the kind that the Christian Church does not want or need. Our National Constitution guarantees freedom of religion for everyone and that includes the Mormons. What we (the Christian Church) need to do is get our own act together as a body of believers. We are getting through to LDS and the Church will do anything to silence us. This includes FALSE news stories in the Church owned papers & TV stations. Back room meetings with City government officials who are LDS. It also Includes, PHYSICAL ASUALT by LDS BOUNCERS (those security guards with cameras & the little ear pieces like secret service) intimidation, & death threats. Judy: Sure - You are a threat to their peace and you are coming against what they hold to be sacred. Jesus didn't cast himself down from the pillar of the temple so why do it today and think there will be no consequences? What a wonderful community Salt Lake. I really like the FITHY language of the LDS priests at the priesthood meetings. I have to go to the drunk crowd at the Mardi Gras to get the same filthy language. Of all the other events even the UN Churched do not speak like that priesthood crowd. I even have tape of some Priest saying G D Judy: An unclean spirit acts unclean - Look at Strom Thurmond the honored Senator who was also a Freemason (same spirit). He secretly threw a few dollars at the girl born to him by his parents 16yr old black maid while publicly spouting hateful nonsense about segregation not long after she was born ie "There's not enough troops in the Army to force the Southern people to break down segregation and admit the Negro race into our theaters, into our swimming pools, into our homes and into our churches," (I guess that didn't include his own bed). Mormonism is the same they have a segregated priesthood which is every bit as hypocritical but then what do we expect like begets like? Grace and Peace, Judy Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: David Miller wrote:> Generally speaking, however, I don't think street preachers go out of> their way to be disrespectful. There are always exceptions.DAVEH: Would you think the public display of the street preachers in SLC waving LDS underwear is one of those exceptions?>>> Peace be with you.> David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.>--~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain Five email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Do you Yahoo!?Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
RE: [TruthTalk] Photo of ghost in Henry 8 castle
- Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 12/21/2003 9:38:15 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Photo of ghost in Henry 8 castle See red response below: Subject: [TruthTalk] Photo of ghost in Henry 8 castle From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> BTW, what do you mean, exactly, by familiar spirits? Why would a demon from a dead person hang around imitating them for centuries? Certainly they could go inhabit someone else. No ones explanation really seems correct to me. It seems we are missing something in our understanding of them. Izzy Dean writes: I view a familiar spirit as a ghost of some one you know-such as you great uncle or such.The Bible seem to indicate a Fam.Spirit as a spirit that dwells in someone. 2 Chr.33:6 1 CHR.10:13 1 Samuel 28:8 Dean, I looked these up, but they only seem to show that we should not try to contact the dead or use mediums. They dont seem to explain what a familiar spirit is. Izzy **A familiar spirit is a family spirit. One that is generational and familiar with a certain family line. These are the spirits that give information at seances and tell things that only an intimate would know. Dean writes 12/21: I agree with Judy-makes sense-and agrees with the rest of the Bible-to my understanding. Dean, That still doesnt answer my question. Why would they want to go around haunting a specific location, mostly undetected, and imitate a dead person? Why wouldnt they just go indwell another living body/soul? Obviously they prefer living in a body; even in an animal body. Is it possible that these really are the souls of the lost, stuck on this earth for some reason, perhaps awaiting Judgment Day? Or is it possible that we dont understand Time correctly, as God can see everything at once? Our understanding is SO limited! (As you can see, I dont always accept the common beliefs simply because everyone else does unless I can verify it in the WordI like to explore other possibilities if it doesnt seem absolutely sure. J )&nb sp; Any enquiring scientific minds out there??? Izzy - Matthew 8:31 The demons began to entreat Him, saying, "If You are going to cast us out, send us into the herd of swine." Dean writes: I am sure I can answer your question-other then saying that if these familiar were to leave where would they Go? They are not good or the Bible would not have warned us against them-so to me their only other option would seem to be hell itself. Matt.8:29 art thou come hither to torment us before the time? These have a time of suffering coming-and apparently Jesus does the tormenting when the appointed time comes-I would guess that they would want to stay away from the suffering as long as possible. Judy.Have you noticed how I started using lines under my passages to separate the replies-I learned this from Ruben-works well. I also have been using colors for some time now and I didn't learn this from DaveH. ---
Re: [TruthTalk] The Basis of Christian Fellowship
If the below be true, how can Jesus tell the vast majority of those He loved,"I never knew you. Depart from me". Terry , it is impossible to love people and reject them at the same time. Grace and Peace, Judy
[TruthTalk] Photo of ghost in Henry 8 castle
See red response below: From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> BTW, what do you mean, exactly, by familiar spirits? Why would a demon from a dead person hang around imitating them for centuries? Certainly they could go inhabit someone else. No ones explanation really seems correct to me. It seems we are missing something in our understanding of them. Izzy Dean writes: I view a familiar spirit as a ghost of some one you know-such as you great uncle or such.The Bible seem to indicate a Fam.Spirit as a spirit that dwells in someone. 2 Chr.33:6 1 CHR.10:13 1 Samuel 28:8 Dean, I looked these up, but they only seem to show that we should not try to contact the dead or use mediums. They dont seem to explain what a familiar spirit is. Izzy **A familiar spirit is a family spirit. One that is generational and familiar with a certain family line. These are the spirits that give information at seances and tell things that only an intimate would know. Dean writes 12/21: I agree with Judy-makes sense-and agrees with the rest of the Bible-to my understanding. Dean, That still doesnt answer my question. Why would they want to go around haunting a specific location, mostly undetected, and imitate a dead person? Why wouldnt they just go indwell another living body/soul? Obviously they prefer living in a body; even in an animal body. Is it possible that these really are the souls of the lost, stuck on this earth for some reason, perhaps awaiting Judgment Day? Or is it possible that we dont understand Time correctly, as God can see everything at once? Our understanding is SO limited! (As you can see, I dont always accept the common beliefs simply because everyone else does unless I can verify it in the WordI like to explore other possibilities if it doesnt seem absolutely sure. J )&nb sp; Any enquiring scientific minds out there??? Izzy - Matthew 8:31 The demons began to entreat Him, saying, "If You are going to cast us out, send us into the herd of swine." Dean writes: I am sure I can answer your question-other then saying that if these familiar were to leave where would they Go? They are not good or the Bible would not have warned us against them-so to me their only other option would seem to be hell itself. Matt.8:29 art thou come hither to torment us before the time? These have a time of suffering coming-and apparently Jesus does the tormenting when the appointed time comes-I would guess that they would want to stay away from the suffering as long as possible. Judy.Have you noticed how I started using lines under my passages to separate the replies-I learned this from Ruben-works well. I also have been using colors for some time now and I didn't learn this from DaveH. --- Judy: Looks like we agree on this subject Dean - I don't know everything about these spirits but I do believe that if the person they were inhabiting died leaving no offspring or they had no ground upon which to enter that they would wander around until a new home showed up. Also we have the example in Matt 12:44-46 of someone who was delivered (house swept and garnished) but who didn't fill it with the right thing and the spirit they had before came back with a lot more friends. I see this situation as something like Baptists who are seduced by the Mormon spirit. WDYT? Ruben's lines are a good idea - I hadn't noticed you using the colors before but that's fun also. Grace and Peace, Judy --- in
[TruthTalk] The Basis of Christian Fellowship
From: "Terry Clifton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> If the below be true, how can Jesus tell the vast majority of those He loved,"I never knew you. Depart from me". Terry I wrote: it is impossible to love people and reject them at the same time. Grace and Peace, Judy ** Jesus loved all of us enough to die for us which so far as I'm concerned is genuine love. He offers us eternal life on His terms not ours and His terms are that we fulfill the law of Christ or 'royal law' which is "LOVE" He says that if we love him we will do what He says (John 14:15,23) He promises the crown of life to them that love him (James 1:12) He promises the Kingdom to them that love Him (James 2:5) Mark 12:30,31 says there is no commandment greater than LOVE Luke 6:35,36 says that God is kind to the unthankful and to the evil. Romans 13:10 says that love works no ill to anyone and love is the fulfilling of God's Law 1 John 5:2,3 says - For this is the love of God that we keep His commandments. By the time Jesus tells these people who thought they were serving Him 'depart from me you who practice lawlessness' they will have had time to get it together. It is our responsibility to search the scriptures and learn what is expected of us. No man got us into the Kingdom and no man can kick us out. But I don't believe many of us understand this kind of love because it's spiritual and so we try to transpose what we have been used to which is really no love at all, it is performance oriented acceptance. Hope this makes what I'm trying to communicate a little clearer. Grace and Peace, Judy
RE: [TruthTalk] I found it Blaine...but you lost it
Why the BIG Play on the emotions of others to try and pressure us to stop? When that failed why the pressure thru city hall to write City ordinances to silence our speech & put away our signs & consign us to a location up the street? - Judy: How is it you can't understand this Kevin? Put yourself in their shoes ... This is the kind of thing that in the long run will bring the wrong kind of attention to all religions, the kind that the Christian Church does not want or need. Our National Constitution guarantees freedom of religion for everyone and that includes the Mormons. What we (the Christian Church) need to do is get our own act together as a body of believers. Dean writes 12/21: Brother Kevin, I just read a sermon by J.Wesley entitled "Sermon on the Mount 12" and in this sermon he dealt with the issue of false prophets.I found the area of identifying these false teachers to be very interesting as they not only point to DaveH but also others on this site. I will quote some of this sermon for you: These are false prophets of the highest sense of the word. These are traitors both of God and man. These are no more than the first born of Satan; the eldest sons of Apollyon,the Destroyer. These are far above the ranks of ordinary cut-throats;for they murder the souls of men But do they come now in their own shape? By no means. If it were so,they could not destory.You would take the alarm,and flee for your life. Therefore they put on a quite contrary appearance:... "They come to you in sheeps clothing,although inward they are ravening wolves." They come to you in sheeps clothen; that is with an appearance of harmlessness. They come in the most mild,inoffensive manner,without any any mark or token of enmity... They come secondly, with a appearance of usefulness. Indeed to this,to do good,they are particularity called. They are set apart for this very thing... It is their whole business,to "go about doing good, and heal those that are oppressed of the devil." And you have been always accustomed to look upon them in this light, as messages of God,sent to bring you a blessing. They come,Thirdly,with an appearance of religion. All they do is for conscience' sake! They assure you, it is out of mere zeal for God,that they make God a liar. It is out of pure concern for religion,that they would destroy it root and branch. All they speak is only from love of truth, and a fear lest it would suffer; and, it may be, from a regard for the church, and a desire to defend her from all her enemies. Above all, they come with an appearance of loveTherefore it is that they advise you to keep still, in the plain middle way; and to beware of "being righteous overmuch," Lest you should "destroy yourself." Our Blessed Lord saw how needful it was for all men to know false prophetsHe therefore gave us a short and plain rule...and easy to be applied upon all occasions: "Ye shall know then by their fruits."... Do you expect that these evil men should being good fruit...They who,in fact, being the proud, passionate, unmerciful, lovers of the world, to be lowly, gentle...they are true Prophets; they are sent from God. My dear brethren,harden not your hearts! You have too long shut you eyes against the light. Open them now before it is too late; before you are cast into outer darkness! Let not any temporal consideration weigh with you; for eternity is at stake. Ye have run before you were sent. O go no farther! Do not persist to damn yourselves and them that here you! You have no fruit for your labors. And why is this? Even because the Lord is not with you. But can you go this warfare at your own cost? It cannot be. Then humble yourself before him. Cry unto him out of the dust,that he may first quicken thy soul;... After so many years how many souls has Judy lead to God-did lead one person to God?By their fruits we will know them. Now read the blue (above) again.
Re: [TruthTalk] HAPPY YULE DAY!!
Izzy: "The best argument I've heard yet for Believers to NOT have a Christmas tree." Again, Gentiles who turned to God did not identify with their past heritage or ways. They repented: Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led. 1CO 12:2 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 2CO 6:16 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; 1TH 1:9 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen. 1JO 5:21 --Marlin -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] The Basis of Christian Fellowship
- Original Message - From: To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 12/21/2003 11:51:01 AM Subject: [TruthTalk] The Basis of Christian Fellowship From: "Terry Clifton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> If the below be true, how can Jesus tell the vast majority of those He loved,"I never knew you. Depart from me". Terry I wrote: it is impossible to love people and reject them at the same time. Grace and Peace, Judy ** Jesus loved all of us enough to die for us which so far as I'm concerned is genuine love. He offers us eternal life on His terms not ours and His terms are that we fulfill the law of Christ or 'royal law' which is "LOVE" He says that if we love him we will do what He says (John 14:15,23) He promises the crown of life to them that love him (James 1:12) He promises the Kingdom to them that love Him (James 2:5) Mark 12:30,31 says there is no commandment greater than LOVE Luke 6:35,36 says that God is kind to the unthankful and to the evil. Romans 13:10 says that love works no ill to anyone and love is the fulfilling of God's Law 1 John 5:2,3 says - For this is the love of God that we keep His commandments. By the time Jesus tells these people who thought they were serving Him 'depart from me you who practice lawlessness' they will have had time to get it together. - Dean writes: Where in hell? Look and see where they had to depart to? Matt:25:41...into everlasting fire,prepared for the devil and his angels: It is our responsibility to search the scriptures and learn what is expected of us. No man got us into the Kingdom and no man can kick us out. But I don't believe many of us understand this kind of love because it's spiritual and so we try to transpose what we have been used to which is really no love at all, it is performance oriented acceptance. Hope this makes what I'm trying to communicate a little clearer. Grace and Peace, Judy
[TruthTalk] Dean & Ruben
DAVEH: I am curious as to whether either of you two (Dean and/or Ruben) have walked through Temple Square as a normal visitor rather than a protester? Have either of you been inside and toured the visitors center or heard the Tabernacle Choir or walked the grounds? -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] I didn't do that freaking email
CPL: AP, TPW, why do you not reveal your real name as most of the TT'rs have. Is there something you're afraid of, or are you hiding from someone or something? TPW: Not fearful, I am in a line of work that requires me to. It's nothing personal and furthermore, what would my true identity bring you anyways? what possible use could you have for it? Besides PPL know me as THE PAGAN WOLF anyways. That user name has practically an Identity of it's own. TPW _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 --- Begin Message --- AP, TPW, why do you not reveal your real name as most of the TT'rs have. Is there something you're afraid of, or are you hiding from someone or something? >From: "Arsene Lupin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: [TruthTalk] I didn't do that freaking email >Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 14:42:30 + > > >>The best argument I've heard yet for Believers to NOT have a >>Christmas tree. >>TPW, did you ever actually answer David Miller's question directly >>when he >>asked if you were the one who sent the lewd and threatening email >>regarding >>his daughter? Until you actually deny this I will not talk to you. >>You have >>only insinuated that you did not, to my observance. Izzy > >Izzy: I got waay too much class to be lewd!! AND NO I DIDN'T SEND >THAT FREAKING E-MAIL!! > >On that note, Happy Holidays!! > >TPW > >_ >Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/photos&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca > >-- >"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you >may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) >http://www.InnGlory.org > >If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you >have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Working moms: Find helpful tips here on managing kids, home, work and yourself. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. --- End Message ---
RE: [TruthTalk] Dean & Ruben
> [Original Message] > From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: TruthTalk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 12/21/2003 12:38:43 PM > Subject: [TruthTalk] Dean & Ruben > > DAVEH: I am curious as to whether either of you two (Dean and/or Ruben) > have walked through Temple Square as a normal visitor rather than a > protester? Have either of you been inside and toured the visitors > center or heard the Tabernacle Choir or walked the grounds? Deam writes: Are kidding? Your brethern will not even let us close to those sites.It took hours for me to nagociate a two foot square in front of the north gate-and then they only gave that to me if I agreed not to walk back and forth thru the crowds as I preached about Christ dying for the sins of the world-and to keep God's commandments. I had no Mormon underclothing-no one was rebuked-only a bible and that message-and the Mormons hated that.Some time when we would get tired-after standing for hours we would sit on a short wall by the sidewalk and they would come and tell us to not even sit on their wall-our feet would still be on the public sidewalk. What if we are in agreement with God's word-what then? > > > -- > ~~~ > Dave Hansen > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.langlitz.com > ~~~ > If you wish to receive > things I find interesting, > I maintain Five email lists... > JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, > STUFF and MOTORCYCLE. > > > -- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
[TruthTalk] The Basis of Christian Fellowship
Response in red below - judy From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> From: "Terry Clifton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> If the below be true, how can Jesus tell the vast majority of those He loved,"I never knew you. Depart from me". Terry I wrote: it is impossible to love people and reject them at the same time. Grace and Peace, Judy ** Jesus loved all of us enough to die for us which so far as I'm concerned is genuine love. He offers us eternal life on His terms not ours and His terms are that we fulfill the law of Christ or 'royal law' which is "LOVE" He says that if we love him we will do what He says (John 14:15,23) He promises the crown of life to them that love him (James 1:12) He promises the Kingdom to them that love Him (James 2:5) Mark 12:30,31 says there is no commandment greater than LOVE Luke 6:35,36 says that God is kind to the unthankful and to the evil. Romans 13:10 says that love works no ill to anyone and love is the fulfilling of God's Law 1 John 5:2,3 says - For this is the love of God that we keep His commandments. By the time Jesus tells these people who thought they were serving Him 'depart from me you who practice lawlessness' they will have had time to get it together. - Dean writes: Where in hell? Look and see where they had to depart to? Matt:25:41...into everlasting fire,prepared for the devil and his angels: **Wrong tense Dean, sorry bout that ... I should have said 'would have' had enough time to get it together. You see this is what salvation is - a measure of time during which we are conformed to the 'image of Christ' which is what we have been predestined to since the foundation of the world. (Romans 8:29,30) ___ It is our responsibility to search the scriptures and learn what is expected of us. No man got us into the Kingdom and no man can kick us out. But I don't believe many of us understand this kind of love because it's spiritual and so we try to transpose what we have been used to which is really no love at all, it is performance oriented acceptance. Hope this makes what I'm trying to communicate a little clearer. Grace and Peace, Judy
RE: [TruthTalk] The Basis of Christian Fellowship
Dean writes: Where in hell? Look and see where they had to depart to? Matt:25:41...into everlasting fire,prepared for the devil and his angels: **Wrong tense Dean, sorry bout that ... I should have said 'would have' had enough time to get it together. You see this is what salvation is - a measure of time during which we are conformed to the 'image of Christ' which is what we have been predestined to since the foundation of the world. (Romans 8:29,30) Dean writes; And after we are saved what then?Do we walk around smiling -telling others that God loves them?
[TruthTalk] I found it Blaine...but you lost it
From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Why the BIG Play on the emotions of others to try and pressure us to stop? When that failed why the pressure thru city hall to write City ordinances to silence our speech & put away our signs & consign us to a location up the street? - Judy: How is it you can't understand this Kevin? Put yourself in their shoes ... This is the kind of thing that in the long run will bring the wrong kind of attention to all religions, the kind that the Christian Church does not want or need. Our National Constitution guarantees freedom of religion for everyone and that includes the Mormons. What we (the Christian Church) need to do is get our own act together as a body of believers. Dean writes 12/21: Brother Kevin, I just read a sermon by J.Wesley entitled "Sermon on the Mount 12" and in this sermon he dealt with the issue of false prophets.I found the area of identifying these false teachers to be very interesting as they not only point to DaveH but also others on this site. I will quote some of this sermon for you: These are false prophets of the highest sense of the word. These are traitors both of God and man. These are no more than the first born of Satan; the eldest sons of Apollyon,the Destroyer. These are far above the ranks of ordinary cut-throats;for they murder the souls of men But do they come now in their own shape? By no means. If it were so,they could not destory.You would take the alarm,and flee for your life. Therefore they put on a quite contrary appearance:... "They come to you in sheeps clothing, although inward they are ravening wolves." jt: Dean are you writing this to show up the Mormons or is this for me since you believe I have wrong doctrine also? They come to you in sheeps clothen; that is with an appearance of harmlessness. They come in the most mild,inoffensive manner,without any any mark or token of enmity... They come secondly, with a appearance of usefulness. Indeed to this,to do good,they are particularity called. They are set apart for this very thing... It is their whole business,to "go about doing good, and heal those that are oppressed of the devil." And you have been always accustomed to look upon them in this light, as messages of God,sent to bring you a blessing. They come,Thirdly,with an appearance of religion. All they do is for conscience' sake! They assure you, it is out of mere zeal for God,that they make God a liar. It is out of pure concern for religion,that they would destroy it root and branch. All they speak is only from love of truth, and a fear lest it would suffer; and, it may be, from a regard for the church, and a desire to defend her from all her enemies. Above all, they come with an appearance of loveTherefore it is that they advise you to keep still, in the plain middle way; and to beware of "being righteous overmuch," Lest you should "destroy yourself." Our Blessed Lord saw how needful it was for all men to know false prophetsHe therefore gave us a short and plain rule...and easy to be applied upon all occasions: "Ye shall know then by their fruits."... Do you expect that these evil men should being good fruit...They who,in fact, being the proud, passionate, unmerciful, lovers of the world, to be lowly, gentle...they are true Prophets; they are sent from God. My dear brethren,harden not your hearts! You have too long shut you eyes against the light. Open them now before it is too late; before you are cast into outer darkness! Let not any temporal consideration weigh with you; for eternity is at stake. Ye have run before you were sent. O go no farther! Do not persist to damn yourselves and them that here you! You have no fruit for your labors. And why is this? Even because the Lord is not with you. But can you go this warfare at your own cost? It cannot be. Then humble yourself before him. Cry unto him out of the dust,that he may first quicken thy soul;... jt: So Dean are you saying that the words of John Wesley are more important than the words of Our Lord Jesus Christ? If you want to be a fruit inspector then you could probably throw out most of the Church but then ppl are still under construction and this is a dangerous place to put oneself. After so many years how many souls has Judy lead to God-did lead one person to God?By their fruits we will know them. Now read the blue (above) again. jt: Spiritual fruit Dean is described in Galatians 5:22-24 and if anyone does come to the Lord they will have been drawn to Him by the Father most likely in spite of all these performances out on the street rather than because of them. "He that abideth in me, and I in him the same bringeth forth m
[TruthTalk] The Basis of Christian Fellowship
From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Dean writes: Where in hell? Look and see where they had to depart to? Matt:25:41...into everlasting fire,prepared for the devil and his angels: **Wrong tense Dean, sorry bout that ... I should have said 'would have' had enough time to get it together. You see this is what salvation is - a measure of time during which we are conformed to the 'image of Christ' which is what we have been predestined to since the foundation of the world. (Romans 8:29,30) Dean writes; And after we are saved what then? Do we walk around smiling -telling others that God loves them? Judy: Salvation is present-progressive Dean, it's an ongoing work rather than an accomplished fact. After we've said our prayer we work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, witnessing to others as the Lord opens the door. The main thing is to learn obedience, just as Jesus learned by the things he suffered but suffering as an evildoer doesn't count.
RE: [TruthTalk] Reply to both David and Izzy
> [Original Message] > From: David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 12/20/2003 6:39:42 PM > Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Reply to both David and Izzy > > Dean writes: > > Each time I get the shot I get the flu-connection? > > Don't know but it is starting to seem odd. > > Yes, there is a connection. When you get the flu shot, you are > injecting your body with a small amount of the flu virus. Your body > then builds up anti-bodies to fight the flu. The idea is that if you do > this about two weeks before being exposed to the flu, then your body > will have already built up a resistance and you won't be knocked down by > it. > > I'm not a doctor, but common sense tells me that if you are experiencing > this, you have one of two choices. 1) Don't take the flu shot (not > everyone reacts to it the same way and you seem to be reacting badly to > it), or 2) you might try taking it a few weeks earlier than you normally > do. If you still get the flu from it, then don't take the shot. > > Remember that flu shots are BIG BUSINESS. It is being marketed to you. > Don't believe that it is going to help you just because of the ads. > Most of the testing of it is done with old people in convalescent homes, > and you don't fall into that category, so the praised results may not be > so applicable to you. > > Dean wrote: > > Here are some passages to support my belief of > > a time related separation and are "clear warnings": > > Just quoting verses does not prove a case. Some of these passages we > have brought up to you for why we should not separate. You seem to > ignore our points about that. Please considering addressing our points. > Maybe it would be easier to do one at a time, but I will just give a > rough outline of the objections below and if you think it profitable, > let's start with the first one and get into more detail. > > Matt:16:6 > Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the > Sadducee. (King Herod's leaven is included at a later time). > 3 points: > 1.Take heed (ie. pay attention-see that you listen) > 2. We are to beware (ie to be careful,to be on one's guard) > 3. These mentioned were false teachers-bringing another gospel. > > But Jesus never taught separation from Herod or the Pharisees or the > Sadducees. In fact, he and the twelve apostles practiced just the > opposite, and Jesus even taught his disciples to listen to them because > they sat in Moses's seat. > > In Acts we read that it was the custom of the apostles to go into the > synagogue every Sabbath day. That seems like pretty regular > interaction. > > 1 Cor 5:1-8 > v.6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven > leaveneth the whole lump. > Here the fornicator is removed as the sin will spread. "Your glorying" > is shown here as being a feeling of confidence. In short- don't be too > confident as some sin in the mist will spread to others-remove that one. > > This concerns actual sin, a crime, not a false teaching. Where in the > entire Bible is anyone ever put forth from fellowship for FALSE > TEACHING? > > Gal.5:7 > Ye did run; who did hinder you that ye not should not obey the truth. > Here the brethren fought well but someone hindered then that the not > obey the truth-How v.9 states a "little leaven; leaveneth the whole > lump"-sin is present-those that advocate another doctrine are sinners-in > this case "the law" v.4- was the other doctrine. > > Yes, there was some false teaching, but they did not split the church > over it. They did not say, "you Judaizers go build your church across > the street and leave us alone." They taught and disputed with one > another and continued to do so. Where in Galatians does Paul thrust the > Judaizers out of the congregation or command the Galatians to thrust > them out? Again, this passage seems to support my position and be > against your position. > > Matt.7:15 > Beware of false prophets,which come to you in sheep clothing,... > I summit to you that- false teachers-false doctrine-false prophets- are > all the same and many times were interchangeable in the bible. > We are to beware of them, > > Yes, beware of them, but do we cut them off for speaking in error? I > think our mandate is to correct them and bring them away from error by > speaking the truth to them. > > Eph 5:6-12 > > v6.Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things > cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. > v.7 Be not ye partakers with them. > In short have nothing to do with them-clear warnings. > v.11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful workers of darkness,but > rather reprove them. > Judy say we can't reprove them. > > We are to reprove SIN, and we are to correct errant teaching. This > passage deals with SIN in the church. Sin is not false teaching. Sin > is an action, not a philosophy or viewpoint. > > 2 Peter 2:1-22 > v.1 Shown as false teachers the same as o
RE: [TruthTalk] The Basis of Christian Fellowship
- Original Message - From: To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 12/21/2003 2:14:24 PM Subject: [TruthTalk] The Basis of Christian Fellowship From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Dean writes: Where in hell? Look and see where they had to depart to? Matt:25:41...into everlasting fire,prepared for the devil and his angels: **Wrong tense Dean, sorry bout that ... I should have said 'would have' had enough time to get it together. You see this is what salvation is - a measure of time during which we are conformed to the 'image of Christ' which is what we have been predestined to since the foundation of the world. (Romans 8:29,30) Dean writes; And after we are saved what then? Do we walk around smiling -telling others that God loves them? Judy: Salvation is present-progressive Dean, it's an ongoing work rather than an accomplished fact. After we've said our prayer we work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, witnessing to others as the Lord opens the door. The main thing is to learn obedience, just as Jesus learned by the things he suffered but suffering as an evildoer doesn't count. Dean writes: Then tell me what if one died in Christ right this minute? What if they haven't completed that ongoing work?He said to go into all the world and preach the gospel-Why do I have to wait for a door to open-the entire world is open and the harvest ripe-and Jesus point the direction and said go .Are you saying to sit still and wait? --
[TruthTalk] The Basis of Christian Fellowship
From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Dean writes: Where in hell? Look and see where they had to depart to? Matt:25:41...into everlasting fire,prepared for the devil and his angels: **Wrong tense Dean, sorry bout that ... I should have said 'would have' had enough time to get it together. You see this is what salvation is - a measure of time during which we are conformed to the 'image of Christ' which is what we have been predestined to since the foundation of the world. (Romans 8:29,30) Dean writes; And after we are saved what then? Do we walk around smiling -telling others that God loves them? Judy: Salvation is present-progressive Dean, it's an ongoing work rather than an accomplished fact. After we've said our prayer we work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, witnessing to others as the Lord opens the door. The main thing is to learn obedience, just as Jesus learned by the things he suffered but suffering as an evildoer doesn't count. Dean writes: Then tell me what if one died in Christ right this minute? What if they haven't completed that ongoing work? Judy: Actually it's God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure. He knows what we are about and He sees the heart while we observe the outward appearance - His judgment is perfect and LOVE is where it's at. Dean: He said to go into all the world and preach the gospel- Why do I have to wait for a door to open-the entire world is open and the harvest ripe-and Jesus point the direction and said go .Are you saying to sit still and wait? Judy: I'm not telling you to do anything other than obey the Lord. ATST are you telling me that 'everyone' is to go Dean? that women can't stay at home, keep house, and raise children in a stable environment because everyone is commanded to go out into the streets and preach? Do you think Mary & Martha of Bethany and Jesus' mother Mary went out into the streets to preach the gospel and get people saved? and what if the light within be darkness and we become a stumbling block to others as some of the Mormons have been stating. What if we run before we are sent? God prepared ppl for a long time before sending them on a mission for Him. --
RE: [TruthTalk] Izzy -You are right.
> Dean wrote: > > But David when we rebuked them you stepped in and spoke > > against us for rebuking them-Both Izzy and I experienced > > this-In a sense we were rebuked for rebuking the Mormons. > > A lot of people have experienced this. We have one rule on TruthTalk, > and that is that there should be no ad hominem arguments. You are not > allowed to insult people or disparage them. You are allowed to > passionately attack what they are saying. Attack the arguments. Do not > attack the person. > > I realize that both you and Izzy have a hard time understanding that, > but the purpose of it is to focus on the subject matter being discussed > rather than on the person. When you attack the person, all kinds of > emotions start coming into play and the discussion degrades into a > battle of the wits over ego rather than truth. > > Please keep in mind, that if it had been reversed and Dave had attacked > you, I would have come down on him just as hard. There is only one > person that I had to ban from the list and that is because when he was > rebuked by me, he did what he wanted anyway. Some people just like to > flame others and make them mad. We don't allow that here. Dean writes: Was that Jim Webber? Was he sent from this list?If not you might speak to him because he believes he was banned from this list. --- > Now in some sense, you are allowed to rebuke, but the rebuke must be > focused upon the error itself. Dean writes: Are you not in a sense-separating the sin from the sinner? David ask yourself this-What if the Spirit leads one of us to rebuke a person for sin and you weaken that rebuke? What happens to that person that the Lord sent the rebuke to create fear in?Do you not think that this could very easily cause you to struggle against God? You have rebuked me for allowing > non-Christians on the list. I have not censored you for that. I would > like to see continued discussion about it. However, if you start > railing at me and calling me an idiot and not really discussing the > differences, then we will have a problem. Dean writes: No David-I rebuked you nor allowing them to spend a long amount of time among the brethren-here on this list. I removed the rebuke after Ruben asked me to-I believe he did this to create unity between the brethern-I do not think he fully understood the reasons for the rebuke. I have felt that I did wrong by removing the rebuke-and this has been an ongoing deep problem for me to deal with-as it won't go away.When have I railed at you or called you an idiot? What do you seek to make me out to be?A loud mouth preacher that rails at people and calls them idiots? - > > I try to allow as much latitude as I can for people to correct > themselves, but if I don't step in from time to time, the discussion > seriously degrades into useless banter. Dean writes: A can of worms-that I suggest you reorganize.I will help all I can. > > Peace be with you. > David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. > > -- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] The Basis of Christian Fellowship
- Original Message - From: To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 12/21/2003 2:55:38 PM Subject: [TruthTalk] The Basis of Christian Fellowship From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Dean writes: Where in hell? Look and see where they had to depart to? Matt:25:41...into everlasting fire,prepared for the devil and his angels: **Wrong tense Dean, sorry bout that ... I should have said 'would have' had enough time to get it together. You see this is what salvation is - a measure of time during which we are conformed to the 'image of Christ' which is what we have been predestined to since the foundation of the world. (Romans 8:29,30) Dean writes; And after we are saved what then? Do we walk around smiling -telling others that God loves them? Judy: Salvation is present-progressive Dean, it's an ongoing work rather than an accomplished fact. After we've said our prayer we work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, witnessing to others as the Lord opens the door. The main thing is to learn obedience, just as Jesus learned by the things he suffered but suffering as an evildoer doesn't count. Dean writes: Then tell me what if one died in Christ right this minute? What if they haven't completed that ongoing work? Judy: Actually it's God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure. He knows what we are about and He sees the heart while we observe the outward appearance - His judgment is perfect and LOVE is where it's at. Dean: He said to go into all the world and preach the gospel- Why do I have to wait for a door to open-the entire world is open and the harvest ripe-and Jesus point the direction and said go .Are you saying to sit still and wait? Judy: I'm not telling you to do anything other than obey the Lord. ATST are you telling me that 'everyone' is to go Dean? that women can't stay at home, keep house, and raise children in a stable environment because everyone is commanded to go out into the streets and preach? Dean writes: No- not everybody can travel to Africa and preach-but they can invite their neighbor to come to the kingdom. They can do something-such as tell what God will exact for the penalty of sin-and the one doesn't have to go to that awful place-that is true love for your fellow man. - Do you think Mary & Martha of Bethany and Jesus' mother Mary went out into the streets to preach the gospel and get people saved? Dean wrote: I believe they told many about Jesus-whether loudly of quitely-they told. Who brought the first message that He is risen if not these Mary(s) after visiting the tomb-But I can tell you one thing they certainly didn't do-They never hindered or even tried to stop one person from preaching the gospel as you have been trying to do. - and what if the light within be darkness and we become a stumbling block to others as some of the Mormons have been stating. What if we run before we are sent? God prepared ppl for a long time before sending them on a mission for Him. Dean writes: I fail to see how preaching Christ and Him crucified could cause anyone a problem-except those that hate God. To preach this is to shine light into the world-not darkness that would make one to fall. 1 Peter 2:8 And a stone of stumbling,and a rock of offence,even to them which at the word,being disobedient,whereunto also they were appointed. Yes I would agree here as I believe you are not ready to go-maybe you are here now to get ready? --
[TruthTalk] The Basis of Christian Fellowship
From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Dean writes: Where in hell? Look and see where they had to depart to? Matt:25:41...into everlasting fire,prepared for the devil and his angels: **Wrong tense Dean, sorry bout that ... I should have said 'would have' had enough time to get it together. You see this is what salvation is - a measure of time during which we are conformed to the 'image of Christ' which is what we have been predestined to since the foundation of the world. (Romans 8:29,30) Dean writes; And after we are saved what then? Do we walk around smiling -telling others that God loves them? Judy: Salvation is present-progressive Dean, it's an ongoing work rather than an accomplished fact. After we've said our prayer we work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, witnessing to others as the Lord opens the door. The main thing is to learn obedience, just as Jesus learned by the things he suffered but suffering as an evildoer doesn't count. Dean writes: Then tell me what if one died in Christ right this minute? What if they haven't completed that ongoing work? Judy: Actually it's God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure. He knows what we are about and He sees the heart while we observe the outward appearance - His judgment is perfect and LOVE is where it's at. Dean: He said to go into all the world and preach the gospel- Why do I have to wait for a door to open-the entire world is open and the harvest ripe-and Jesus point the direction and said go .Are you saying to sit still and wait? Judy: I'm not telling you to do anything other than obey the Lord. ATST are you telling me that 'everyone' is to go Dean? that women can't stay at home, keep house, and raise children in a stable environment because everyone is commanded to go out into the streets and preach? Dean writes: No- not everybody can travel to Africa and preach-but they can invite their neighbor to come to the kingdom. They can do something -such as tell what God will exact for the penalty of sin-and the one doesn't have to go to that awful place-that is true love for your fellow man. Judy: What if the neighbors believe they are already part of the Kingdom Dean mine do and I am not ordained to inspect their lives and judge them. I go to a hairdresser who is homosexual, he was raised in a Pentecostal Church and he believes he is OK. He talks about praying all the time. Should I get in his face and tell him he is going to hell? God has not impressed me to do this. - Do you think Mary & Martha of Bethany and Jesus' mother Mary went out into the streets to preach the gospel and get people saved? Dean wrote: I believe they told many about Jesus-whether loudly of quitely-they told. Who brought the first message that He is risen if not these Mary(s) after visiting the tomb-But I can tell you one thing they certainly didn't do- They never hindered or even tried to stop one person from preaching the gospel as you have been trying to do. Judy: Oh! So now the accuser is stepping it up. First I have no fruit and now I am hindering or trying to stop someone preaching the gospel. Who Dean? and what if the light within be darkness and we become a stumbling block to others as some of the Mormons have been stating. What if we run before we are sent? God prepared ppl for a long time before sending them on a mission for Him.
Re: [TruthTalk] Izzy -You are right.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Look how I've learned to change text colors from DaveH it's fun - so all has not been a total loss even if he never embraces my Lord and Savior which is my hope and prayer for him. DAVEH: Thank you, Judy. Though I disagree with your conclusion, I appreciate your concern for my eternal security. BTW.Now that you know how to change the colors of your posts, try making the font one size (this time I increased it two sizes) larger to make it a little easier again. When you have the text highlighted to change the color, at the same time look at the box that indicates the font size. It will be a number like 10, 12, 14 or whatever.just increase it to the next size and see if that doesn't make reading subsequent posts a bit easier. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
[TruthTalk] Is writing letters to false teachers sin?
Hi Dean. As I understand it, your position is that continued letter writing to false teachers and sinners is sinful. From my perspective, it is not much different than preaching daily at the street corner. If this is not the point of difference between us, please outline exactly what you think it is that is sinful in what I do by providing a place for Christians and non-Christians to write letters to each other. Dean wrote: > You asked for one-Here are three from the same passages > -in the above-take your pick. Ugh. I wanted you to take your best shot. I don't have time to thoroughly deal with a whole bunch of passages and make you stick with them. I already answered you before, but you just ignore what I say. I asked for one passage, but you don't want to hear me. You give me three. I will assume that your first passage is your best and deal with that one. If you want to bring up others later, that is fine. But for now, I want to focus on ONE passage, YOUR BEST PASSAGE, that would reprove me for setting up TruthTalk in a way that would allow non-Christians here. Dean wrote: > Eph.6:7,11 > v7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them. > v.11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful > works of darkness,but rather reprove them. I think you mean Ephesians 5 instead of 6. Following is the passage: Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them. Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) Eph 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. Eph 5:12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. Eph 5:13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. Following is what I wrote to you before about this passage: > We are to reprove SIN, and we are to correct errant teaching. This > passage deals with SIN in the church. Sin is not false teaching. Sin > is an action, not a philosophy or viewpoint. Let me go into more detail, but first, let me plainly tell you how this passage speaks to me. This passage tells me not to go into bars and drink with the sinners and have a good time with them, all in the name of missionary fellowship. It warns us to keep separate from them in terms of fellowship, not in terms of writing letters to each other. For example, when I have preached at Mardi Gras, I am separate from them. I don't go into the strip club and sit down with a guy and talk about how beautiful the naked women are, drinking with him, and then saying, "oh, by the way, did you know that we can have eternal life just by believing on Jesus Christ?" I have heard some Christians try exactly this kind of approach, but Ephesians 5 clearly warns us NOT to do that. No, what I do is carry my banner that says, "GOD HATES SIN" and I stand out in front of the strip club and warn those entering that they are walking down the sidewalk to hell. I tell them that God commands them to repent NOW! When the guys on the street are bartering with beads for the girl to pull off her top and expose her nakedness, I'm right there yelling, "no, girl, don't do it! God is watching you right now and he commands you to repent. These boys here are lusty whoremongers. They are serving the DEVIL! Don't listen to them. Walk in holiness and modesty. Save yourself." This is what Ephesians means when it says to have no fellowship with them, but rather rebuke them. Please notice the specific sins listed in this passage of Ephesians. Not even one mentions or hints at false teachers. I will list them now for you: 1. fornication 2. uncleanness 3. covetousness 4. filthiness 5. foolish talking 6. jesting In other words, if you know those who are fornicating, unclean, covetous, filthy, or who engage in foolish talk and jesting, do not partake with them, but rather reprove them. You can be sure that if somebody writes a letter to this list boasting in these things, they will be reproved. I will not write them and say, "hey buddy, we
RE: [TruthTalk] The Basis of Christian Fellowship
- Original Message - From: To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 12/21/2003 4:12:41 PM Subject: [TruthTalk] The Basis of Christian Fellowship From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Dean writes: Where in hell? Look and see where they had to depart to? Matt:25:41...into everlasting fire,prepared for the devil and his angels: **Wrong tense Dean, sorry bout that ... I should have said 'would have' had enough time to get it together. You see this is what salvation is - a measure of time during which we are conformed to the 'image of Christ' which is what we have been predestined to since the foundation of the world. (Romans 8:29,30) Dean writes; And after we are saved what then? Do we walk around smiling -telling others that God loves them? Judy: Salvation is present-progressive Dean, it's an ongoing work rather than an accomplished fact. After we've said our prayer we work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, witnessing to others as the Lord opens the door. The main thing is to learn obedience, just as Jesus learned by the things he suffered but suffering as an evildoer doesn't count. Dean writes: Then tell me what if one died in Christ right this minute? What if they haven't completed that ongoing work? Judy: Actually it's God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure. He knows what we are about and He sees the heart while we observe the outward appearance - His judgment is perfect and LOVE is where it's at. Dean: He said to go into all the world and preach the gospel- Why do I have to wait for a door to open-the entire world is open and the harvest ripe-and Jesus point the direction and said go .Are you saying to sit still and wait? Judy: I'm not telling you to do anything other than obey the Lord. ATST are you telling me that 'everyone' is to go Dean? that women can't stay at home, keep house, and raise children in a stable environment because everyone is commanded to go out into the streets and preach? Dean writes: No- not everybody can travel to Africa and preach-but they can invite their neighbor to come to the kingdom. They can do something -such as tell what God will exact for the penalty of sin-and the one doesn't have to go to that awful place-that is true love for your fellow man. Judy: What if the neighbors believe they are already part of the Kingdom Dean mine do and I am not ordained to inspect their lives and judge them. I go to a hairdresser who is homosexual, he was raised in a Pentecostal Church and he believes he is OK. He talks about praying all the time. Should I get in his face and tell him he is going to hell? God has not impressed me to do this. - Do you think Mary & Martha of Bethany and Jesus' mother Mary went out into the streets to preach the gospel and get people saved? Dean wrote: I believe they told many about Jesus-whether loudly of quitely-they told. Who brought the first message that He is risen if not these Mary(s) after visiting the tomb-But I can tell you one thing they certainly didn't do- They never hindered or even tried to stop one person from preaching the gospel as you have been trying to do. Judy: Oh! So now the accuser is stepping it up. First I have no fruit and now I am hindering or trying to stop someone preaching the gospel. Who Dean? and what if the light within be darkness and we become a stumbling block to others as some of the Mormons have been stating. What if we run before we are sent? God prepared ppl for a long time before sending them on a mission for Him. Dean writes: I fail to see how preaching Christ and Him crucified could cause anyone a problem-except those that hate God. To preach this is to shine light into the world-not darkness that would make one to fall. 1 Peter 2:8 Judy: Sometimes Dean the way we do things causes the problem. Not everyone is impressed by the same things. Paul said he became all things to all people so that he might win some. And a stone of stumbling,and a rock of offence,even to them which at the word,being disobedient,whereunto also they were appointed. Yes I would agree here as I believe you are not ready to go-maybe you are here now to get ready? Judy: To go where Dean? Don't you think if God wanted me to go somewhere that he is capable of getting my attention? Dean writes: Into all the world... --
Re: [TruthTalk] I found it Blaine...but you lost it
Kevin Deegan wrote: What exactly is so BAD about a PUBLIC display of Temple attire? DAVEH: I think Judy has given you some good reasons, so I don't feel a need to repeat them. However Kevin, what I will repeat is something I've mentioned to Ruben and Dean previously. Have any of the protesters or other Christians who condone such behavior given any thought to the image such displays of unChristian behavior projects to the outside world? Do the protesters want non Christians to think this is normal behavior in the Christian community? Why also is the LDS HIGH PRIEST who asualted one of the "preachers", called a HEROby the LDS?I call that a THUG!My pastor would not asault someone for holding underwear?Is this how yor HIGH PRIESTS behave? Why the BIG Play on the emotions of others to try and pressure us to stop?When that failed why the pressure thru city hall to write City ordinances to silence our speech & put away our signs & consign us to a location up the street? We are getting through to LDS and the Church will do anything to silence us.This includes FALSE news stories in the Church owned papers & TV stations.Back room meetings with City government officials who are LDS.It also Includes, PHYSICAL ASUALT by LDS BOUNCERS (those security guards with cameras & the little ear pieces like secret service) intimidation, & death threats. What a wonderful community Salt Lake.I really like the FITHY language of the LDS priests at the priesthood meetings. I have to go to the drunk crowd at the Mardi Gras to get the same filthy language.Of all the other events even the UN Churched do not speak like that priesthood crowd.I even have tape of some Priest saying G D Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: David Miller wrote: > Generally speaking, however, I don't think street preachers go out of > their way to be disrespectful. There are always exceptions. DAVEH: Would you think the public display of the street preachers in SLC waving LDS underwear is one of those exceptions? > > > Peace be with you. > David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
Re: [TruthTalk] The Basis of Christian Fellowship
Judy: What if the neighbors believe they are already part of the Kingdom Dean mine do and I am not ordained to inspect their lives and judge them. I go to a hairdresser who is homosexual, he was raised in a Pentecostal Church and he believes he is OK. He talks about praying all the time. Should I get in his face and tell him he is going to hell? God has not impressed me to do this. Then as he is cast into Hell he will probably look you in the eye and say something like: Christian, All the times you talked to me, you never told me the truth? Christian, You let me be cast into Hell by your SILENCE. You never TOLD me, CHRISTIAN. You may even get his blood, required at your hands EZ 3:18. Since you did nothing for him in this life. it is only fitting that God would require your ACTIVE PARTICIPATION in his destruction! So what has, God impressed you to do for him? Are you sure it is God that has not impressed you, or do you resist?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Dean writes: Where in hell? Look and see where they had to depart to? Matt:25:41...into everlasting fire,prepared for the devil and his angels: **Wrong tense Dean, sorry bout that ... I should have said 'would have' had enough time to get it together. You see this is what salvation is - a measure of time during which we are conformed to the 'image of Christ' which is what we have been predestined to since the foundation of the world. (Romans 8:29,30) Dean writes; And after we are saved what then? Do we walk around smiling -telling others that God loves them? Judy: Salvation is present-progressive Dean, it's an ongoing work rather than an accomplished fact. After we've said our prayer we work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, witnessing to others as the Lord opens the door. The main thing is to learn obedience, just as Jesus learned by the things he suffered but suffering as an evildoer doesn't count. Dean writes: Then tell me what if one died in Christ right this minute? What if they haven't completed that ongoing work? Judy: Actually it's God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure. He knows what we are about and He sees the heart while we observe the outward appearance - His judgment is perfect and LOVE is where it's at. Dean: He said to go into all the world and preach the gospel- Why do I have to wait for a door to open-the entire world is open and the harvest ripe-and Jesus point the direction and said go .Are you saying to sit still and wait? Judy: I'm not telling you to do anything other than obey the Lord. ATST are you telling me that 'everyone' is to go Dean? that women can't stay at home, keep house, and raise children in a stable environment because everyone is commanded to go out into the streets and preach? Dean writes: No- not everybody can travel to Africa and preach-but they can invite their neighbor to come to the kingdom. They can do something -such as tell what God will exact for the penalty of sin-and the one doesn't have to go to that awful place-that is true love for your fellow man. Judy: What if the neighbors believe they are already part of the Kingdom Dean mine do and I am not ordained to inspect their lives and judge them. I go to a hairdresser who is homosexual, he was raised in a Pentecostal Church and he believes he is OK. He talks about praying all the time. Should I get in his face and tell him he is going to hell? God has not impressed me to do this. - Do you think Mary & Martha of Bethany and Jesus' mother Mary went out into the streets to preach the gospel and get people saved? Dean wrote: I believe they told many about Jesus-whether loudly of quitely-they told. Who brought the first message that He is risen if not these Mary(s) after visiting the tomb-But I can tell you one thing they certainly didn't do- They never hindered or even tried to stop one person from preaching the gospel as you have been trying to do. Judy: Oh! So now the accuser is stepping it up. First I have no fruit and now I am hindering or trying to stop someone preaching the gospel. Who Dean? and what if the light within be darkness and we become a stumbling block to others as some of the Mormons have been stating. What if we run before we are sent? God prepared ppl for a long time before sending them on a mission for Him. Dean writes: I fail to see how preaching Christ and Him crucified could cause anyone a problem-except those that hate God. To preach this is to shine light into the world-not darkness that would make one to fall. 1 Peter 2:8 Judy: Sometimes Dean the way we do things causes the problem. Not everyone is impressed by the same things. Paul said he became all things to all people so t
RE: [TruthTalk] I didn't do that freaking email
TPW, Thank you for your direct (if not kind) response. Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Arsene Lupin Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 8:42 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [TruthTalk] I didn't do that freaking email >The best argument I've heard yet for Believers to NOT have a Christmas >tree. >TPW, did you ever actually answer David Miller's question directly when he >asked if you were the one who sent the lewd and threatening email regarding >his daughter? Until you actually deny this I will not talk to you. You have >only insinuated that you did not, to my observance. Izzy Izzy: I got waay too much class to be lewd!! AND NO I DIDN'T SEND THAT FREAKING E-MAIL!! On that note, Happy Holidays!! TPW _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/photos&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoi n.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] HAPPY YULE DAY!!
Hi Marlin! I hope you will give us an update on Jessica's family when there is something to report. And on your own family! Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlin Halverson Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 11:09 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] HAPPY YULE DAY!! Izzy: "The best argument I've heard yet for Believers to NOT have a Christmas tree." Again, Gentiles who turned to God did not identify with their past heritage or ways. They repented: Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led. 1CO 12:2 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 2CO 6:16 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; 1TH 1:9 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen. 1JO 5:21 --Marlin -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
[TruthTalk] flu shots
BTW, flu shots are not really "big business" for the drug companies. The (ever-so-helpful-finger-in-everything-way-too-huge) gov't has made it so unprofitable that there is a major shortage of flu shots this year--which is why we have all the media coverage about flu shots this year. Izzy -Original Message- David Miller wrote:> > Remember that flu shots are BIG BUSINESS. It is being marketed to you. > Don't believe that it is going to help you just because of the ads. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
[TruthTalk] The Basis of Christian Fellowship
From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Judy: What if the neighbors believe they are already part of the Kingdom Dean mine do and I am not ordained to inspect their lives and judge them. I go to a hairdresser who is homosexual, he was raised in a Pentecostal Church and he believes he is OK. He talks about praying all the time. Should I get in his face and tell him he is going to hell? God has not impressed me to do this. Kevin: Then as he is cast into Hell he will probably look you in the eye and say something like: Christian, All the times you talked to me, you never told me the truth? Christian, You let me be cast into Hell by your SILENCE. You never TOLD me, CHRISTIAN. You may even get his blood, required at your hands EZ 3:18. Since you did nothing for him in this life. it is only fitting that God would require your ACTIVE PARTICIPATION in his destruction! Judy: Have you been reading too many Chick Tracts Kevin? How can you be so sure he will be cast into hell since he is not dead yet and why are you trying to make me personally responsible for his eternal destiny? His mother is an active churchgoer and she is a Christian. Kevin: So what has, God impressed you to do for him? Judy: I pray for him - God has impressed me to do this and he apologizes to me when the talk gets a bit risque (ppl in the world seem to get a kick out of teasing him) because he knows I am a believer and I believe that God makes me a constant reminder. Kevin: Are you sure it is God that has not impressed you, or do you resist? Judy: Why would I resist when my sole purpose on this earth is to obey Him and to do His will. Getting in ppls faces is not necessarily always God's will Kevin. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Dean writes: Where in hell? Look and see where they had to depart to? Matt:25:41...into everlasting fire,prepared for the devil and his angels: **Wrong tense Dean, sorry bout that ... I should have said 'would have' had enough time to get it together. You see this is what salvation is - a measure of time during which we are conformed to the 'image of Christ' which is what we have been predestined to since the foundation of the world. (Romans 8:29,30) Dean writes; And after we are saved what then? Do we walk around smiling -telling others that God loves them? Judy: Salvation is present-progressive Dean, it's an ongoing work rather than an accomplished fact. After we've said our prayer we work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, witnessing to others as the Lord opens the door. The main thing is to learn obedience, just as Jesus learned by the things he suffered but suffering as an evildoer doesn't count. Dean writes: Then tell me what if one died in Christ right this minute? What if they haven't completed that ongoing work? Judy: Actually it's God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure. He knows what we are about and He sees the heart while we observe the outward appearance - His judgment is perfect and LOVE is where it's at. Dean: He said to go into all the world and preach the gospel- Why do I have to wait for a door to open-the entire world is open and the harvest ripe-and Jesus point the direction and said go .Are you saying to sit still and wait? Judy: I'm not telling you to do anything other than obey the Lord. ATST are you telling me that 'everyone' is to go Dean? that women can't stay at home, keep house, and raise children in a stable environment because everyone is commanded to go out into the streets and preach? Dean writes: No- not everybody can travel to Africa and preach-but they can invite their neighbor to come to the kingdom. They can do something -such as tell what God will exact for the penalty of
[TruthTalk] Faux-Christians
Non-Christians have no right to tell Christians how to behave as Christians. (How would a faux-Christian know???) Izzy -Original Message- DAVEH: I think Judy has given you some good reasons, so I don't feel a need to repeat them. However Kevin, what I will repeat is something I've mentioned to Ruben and Dean previously. Have any of the protesters or other Christians who condone such behavior given any thought to the image such displays of unChristian behavior projects to the outside world? Do the protesters want non Christians to think this is normal behavior in the Christian community?
[TruthTalk] Faux-Christians
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Non-Christians have no right to tell Christians how to behave as Christians. (How would a faux- Christian know???) Izzy **I understand that I am on your "ignore" list Izzy but do you have any idea how obnoxious the above sounds? You talk as though a non-believer has no sense at all. They may not know what you know but they have their own spiritual antenna up and this kind of thing is what drives them as far away from the Christian church and professing Christians as they can get ... -Original Message- DAVEH: I think Judy has given you some good reasons, so I don't feel a need to repeat them. However Kevin, what I will repeat is something I've mentioned to Ruben and Dean previously. Have any of the protesters or other Christians who condone such behavior given any thought to the image such displays of unChristian behavior projects to the outside world? Do the protesters want non Christians to think this is normal behavior in the Christian community?
RE: [TruthTalk] The Basis of Christian Fellowship
and what if the light within be darkness and we become a stumbling block to others as some of the Mormons have been stating. What if we run before we are sent? God prepared ppl for a long time before sending them on a mission for Him. I think the question is not what if we run before we are sent. it is what if we sit after we are sent? There is much more of that in the church today & in the Bible. Nu 32:6-7 And Moses said unto the children of Gad and to the children of Reuben, Shall your brethren go to war, and shall ye sit here? And wherefore discourage ye the heart of the children of Israel from going over into the land which the LORD hath given them? Many people in the Church today think the Amour of the Lord is a SEAT CUSHION! You have enjoyed yourself in Messiahianity long enough. You have had pleasant feelings, pleasant songs, pleasant meetings, pleasant prospects . There has been much of human happiness, much clapping of hands, and much shouting of praises very much of heaven on earth. Now then, Go to God and tell Him you are prepared as much as necessary to turn your back upon it all, and that you are willing to spend the rest of your days struggling in the midst of perishing multitudes, whatever it may cost you Gen. William Booth The mormons are only protesting cause they can not STAND to hear the Word of God proclaimed, it strikes them in the heart. it condemns them, & their hellish profane religion. God wants His work; done His way. One thing you always leave out in your discussions is the work of the Word & the Holy Spirit. Word Jesus gave the word to His own Jn 17:8 John 17:14 "I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them" Jn 17:17 "sanctify them through thy truth, thy word is truth" 1 Pt 1:23 "born again ... by the word of God" Seeing as God thought it right to give out the word, should we not do the same? Holy Spirit: Witnesses to the truth Jn 16:13 REPROVES the WORLD of sin Jn 16:8 (this is why they revolt and hate their sin is exposed) Holy Spirit will speak Jn 16:13 (this witness occurs in the heart where you or I may not enter. The Holy Spirit speaks in mens hearts.) LDS can not stand the Word proclaimed: Hebrews 12:19-21 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more: (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart: And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:) Unless we deliver that message how can they hear? Romans 10 Sitting and doing nothing is the real stumbling block. please show me a scripture where someone was discouraged from recieving the lord because of such a stumbling block. (I am not advocating every man doing what is right in his own eyes) This is the same old excuse that has been going on for years. Even David the shepard BOY had to show up to do the Armies job, as Goliath blaspheemed the Lord. Don't get too ZEALOUS there David! Where was God's army? Sitting on the side lines, nothing to say, just like today. What did God's Army do? (with all of their fine regalia on here comes the shepard BOY) Now they have something to say! Goliath blaspheems God every day; NOT A WORD. The BOY shows up & the words come forth, they call him names & tried to DISCOURAGE him. Nothing new there. Did God SEND David? Did David just DO what was right? Did God prepare David for a long time? God does prepare, but ONLY those that are WILLING to GO! IS 6:8 "Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me." "Horatius Bonar said The soul and eternity of one man depends upon the voice of another" Jer 1;7 But the LORD said unto me, Say not, I am a child: for thou shalt go to all that I shall send thee, and whatsoever I command thee thou shalt speak. NO excuses, SPEAK! Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: - Original Message - From: To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 12/21/2003 4:12:41 PM Subject: [TruthTalk] The Basis of Christian Fellowship From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Dean writes: Where in hell? Look and see where they had to depart to? Matt:25:41...into everlasting fire,prepared for the devil and his angels: **Wrong tense Dean, sorry bout that ... I should have said 'would have' had enough time to get it together. You see this is what salvation is - a measure of time during which we are conformed to the 'image of Christ' which is what we have been predestined to since the foundation of the world. (Romans 8:29,30) Dean writes; And after we are saved what then? Do we walk around smiling -telling others that God loves them? Judy: Salvation is present-progressive Dea
RE: [TruthTalk] I found it Blaine...but you lost it
DaveH wrote: > What do you think of some of the obnoxious > displays of the street preachers in SLC? I support it. You might find me out there next year if I feel that I can spare the time and expense to go. DaveH wrote: > Not with respect to the effect on the LDS folks, > but do you think such behavior projects a negative > image of/on Christianity as a whole when viewed by > the outside world? If the outside world is not thinking negatively about Christians, then the Christians are doing something wrong. They rejected Jesus, hanging him on a cross. If they don't have the same response to his followers, then it seems to me that maybe his followers are not really his followers. Also, I don't think God needs me trying to defend his reputation. My job is to do God's will. God is more than able to take care of his own reputation. I think when we take the approach of trying to make God look good or make God look attractive to the world, then we are doing God a disservice. God expects the world to conform to him, but some people try to make the image of God conform to the world. I think you have done this with your viewpoint that there is no hell fire to which God will cast most people. Only a minority will be saved. Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Faux-Christians
I would rather loose a few fish, while fishing, than to never cast a line! I love those that don't fish exponding on what lures to use! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Non-Christians have no right to tell Christians how to behave as Christians. (How would a faux- Christian know???) Izzy **I understand that I am on your "ignore" list Izzy but do you have any idea how obnoxious the above sounds? You talk as though a non-believer has no sense at all. They may not know what you know but they have their own spiritual antenna up and this kind of thing is what drives them as far away from the Christian church and professing Christians as they can get ... -Original Message- DAVEH: I think Judy has given you some good reasons, so I don't feel a need to repeat them. However Kevin, what I will repeat is something I've mentioned to Ruben and Dean previously. Have any of the protesters or other Christians who condone such behavior given any thought to the image such displays of unChristian behavior projects to the outside world? Do the protesters want non Christians to think this is normal behavior in the Christian community? Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
RE: [TruthTalk] I found it Blaine...but you lost it
DAVEH wrote: > Would you think the public display of the street > preachers in SLC waving LDS underwear is one of > those exceptions? No, I don't see that as a problem at all. I wondered about it from the reports coming out, but Ruben, who was doing it, answered it well, in my opinion. I see nothing wrong with waving Mormon underwear and raising questions about it in order to get some attention from Mormons and thereby starting dialogue. Hey, you can wave my sacred Bible around if you want and raise questions about my interpretation of it. I won't be offended. :-) Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] The Basis of Christian Fellowship
I did not say to get in his face. have you talked to him? I do not make you responsible. That is between god & You. If you do not WARN him, God says EZ 3:13 & Ez 33 He will require his blood at your hand! How do you interpret that? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Judy: What if the neighbors believe they are already part of the Kingdom Dean mine do and I am not ordained to inspect their lives and judge them. I go to a hairdresser who is homosexual, he was raised in a Pentecostal Church and he believes he is OK. He talks about praying all the time. Should I get in his face and tell him he is going to hell? God has not impressed me to do this. Kevin: Then as he is cast into Hell he will probably look you in the eye and say something like: Christian, All the times you talked to me, you never told me the truth? Christian, You let me be cast into Hell by your SILENCE. You never TOLD me, CHRISTIAN. You may even get his blood, required at your hands EZ 3:18. Since you did nothing for him in this life. it is only fitting that God would require your ACTIVE PARTICIPATION in his destruction! Judy: Have you been reading too many Chick Tracts Kevin? How can you be so sure he will be cast into hell since he is not dead yet and why are you trying to make me personally responsible for his eternal destiny? His mother is an active churchgoer and she is a Christian. Kevin: So what has, God impressed you to do for him? Judy: I pray for him - God has impressed me to do this and he apologizes to me when the talk gets a bit risque (ppl in the world seem to get a kick out of teasing him) because he knows I am a believer and I believe that God makes me a constant reminder. Kevin: Are you sure it is God that has not impressed you, or do you resist? Judy: Why would I resist when my sole purpose on this earth is to obey Him and to do His will. Getting in ppls faces is not necessarily always God's will Kevin. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Dean writes: Where in hell? Look and see where they had to depart to? Matt:25:41...into everlasting fire,prepared for the devil and his angels: **Wrong tense Dean, sorry bout that ... I should have said 'would have' had enough time to get it together. You see this is what salvation is - a measure of time during which we are conformed to the 'image of Christ' which is what we have been predestined to since the foundation of the world. (Romans 8:29,30) Dean writes; And after we are saved what then? Do we walk around smiling -telling others that God loves them? Judy: Salvation is present-progressive Dean, it's an ongoing work rather than an accomplished fact. After we've said our prayer we work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, witnessing to others as the Lord opens the door. The main thing is to learn obedience, just as Jesus learned by the things he suffered but suffering as an evildoer doesn't count. Dean writes: Then tell me what if one died in Christ right this minute? What if they haven't completed that ongoing work? Judy: Actually it's God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure. He knows what we are about and He sees the heart while we observe the outward appearance - His judgment is perfect and LOVE is where it's at. Dean: He said to go into all the world and preach the gospel- Why do I have to wait for a door to open-the entire world is open and the harvest ripe-and Jesus point the direction and said go .Are you saying to sit still and wait? Judy: I'm not telling you to do anything other than obey the Lord. ATST are you telling me that 'everyone' is to go Dean? that women can't stay at home, keep house, and raise children in a stable environment because everyone is commanded to go out into the streets and preach? Dean writes: No- not everybody can travel to Africa and preach-but they can invite their neighbor to come to the kingdom. They can do something -such as tell what God will exact for the penalty of sin-and the one doesn't have to go to that awful place-that is true love for your fellow man. Judy: What if the neighbors believe they are already part of the Kingdom Dean mine do and I am not ordained to inspect their lives and judge them. I go to a hairdresser who is homosexual, he was raised in a Pentecostal Church and he believes he is OK. He talks about praying all the time. Should I get in his face and tell him he is going to hell? God has not impressed me to do this. - Do you think Mary & Martha of Bethany and Jesus' mother Mary went out into the streets to preach the gospel and get people saved? Dean wrote: I believe they told many about Jesus-whether loudly of quitely-they told. Who brought
Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] Faux-Christians
From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I would rather loose a few fish, while fishing, than to never cast a line! I love those that don't fish exponding on what lures to use! **Kevin you are speaking in ignorance. You don't know what I do, or have done so why are you allowing yourself to be used as a voice for the accuser? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Non-Christians have no right to tell Christians how to behave as Christians. (How would a faux- Christian know???) Izzy **I understand that I am on your "ignore" list Izzy but do you have any idea how obnoxious the above sounds? You talk as though a non-believer has no sense at all. They may not know what you know but they have their own spiritual antenna up and this kind of thing is what drives them as far away from the Christian church and professing Christians as they can get ... -Original Message- DAVEH: I think Judy has given you some good reasons, so I don't feel a need to repeat them. However Kevin, what I will repeat is something I've mentioned to Ruben and Dean previously. Have any of the protesters or other Christians who condone such behavior given any thought to the image such displays of unChristian behavior projects to the outside world? Do the protesters want non Christians to think this is normal behavior in the Christian community? Do you Yahoo!?Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
RE: [TruthTalk] I found it Blaine...but you lost it
Exactly! The real problem is that there are LDS members in Good standing been in the church for a year. They have NO IDEA what this garment is all about. They go to the Bishop, he gets Denies & gets short with them. It causes all kinds of problems. The name of the game is DENY & Conquer. They must HIDE so much meat, cause EVERYONE chokes on it. Just imagine, the county FAIR. The LDS booth full of good looking young missionaries saying "Please stop by we would LOVE to tell you about SATAN's Brother" That would get a crowd right? I have even heard of New Memmbers AFRAID to go in for their Sealing. They do not want some stranger putting their hands under a sheet & touching their otherwise naked body to "ANNOINT" their Breast, vitals, & vacinity of reproductive organs. For this reason NON LDS are NOT ALLOWED to post on the LDS portion of most sites I have seen. They don't want anyone to UPSET the "SHEEPLE" David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: DAVEH wrote:> Would you think the public display of the street > preachers in SLC waving LDS underwear is one of > those exceptions?No, I don't see that as a problem at all. I wondered about it from thereports coming out, but Ruben, who was doing it, answered it well, in myopinion. I see nothing wrong with waving Mormon underwear and raisingquestions about it in order to get some attention from Mormons andthereby starting dialogue.Hey, you can wave my sacred Bible around if you want and raise questionsabout my interpretation of it. I won't be offended. :-)Peace be with you.David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
RE: [TruthTalk] I found it Blaine...but you lost it
Kevin wrote: >> Why also is the LDS HIGH PRIEST who asualted >> one of the "preachers", called a HERO by the >> LDS? I call that a THUG! My pastor would not >> asault someone for holding underwear? Is this >> how yor HIGH PRIESTS behave? Judy: > You fellows were tweaking him on purpose Kevin > and his reaction was violent because to him > those garments are sacred whether it makes any > sense to you or not. Judy, would you assault someone waving your sacred Scriptures around in the air? I don't understand why you would defend violence against peaceful protesters. Kevin wrote: >> Why the BIG Play on the emotions of others to try >> and pressure us to stop? When that failed why the >> pressure thru city hall to write City ordinances >> to silence our speech & put away our signs & consign >> us to a location up the street? Judy: > Our National Constitution guarantees freedom of > religion for everyone and that includes the Mormons. It also guarantees our right to protest false religion on public property. Why do you support the taking away of this right? You are on the wrong side on this one Judy. They want to use money to take away freedom. They want the right to buy public property so that free speech cannot take place near their Temple. That tells me that their Temple is evil. Judy wrote: > What we (the Christian Church) need to do is get > our own act together as a body of believers. Amen! All the churches should be down there reproving Mormonism for misrepresenting Christianity. Judy: > You are a threat to their peace and you are coming > against what they hold to be sacred. They are not a threat to their peace. That is one of the enemy's lies. Their only hope for peace is in the message being brought to them. Judy wrote: > Jesus didn't cast himself down from the pillar > of the temple so why do it today and think there > will be no consequences? No, Jesus went INTO THE TEMPLE and cast out the defilers. Some have done that too, but the Mormons have them thrown in jail. I guess they would throw Jesus in jail too if he anonymously did to their Temple what Jesus did to the Jewish Temple. Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] Izzy -You are right.
David Miller wrote: >> There is only one person that I had to ban from >> the list and that is because when he was rebuked >> by me, he did what he wanted anyway. Some people >> just like to flame others and make them mad. >> We don't allow that here. Dean wrote: > Was that Jim Webber? Was he sent from this list? > If not you might speak to him because he believes > he was banned from this list. No, it was not Jim Webber. Jim Webber has never been removed from this list, nor has he been asked to leave. He is always welcome here just like everybody else who keeps the no ad hominem argument rule. Dean writes: > Are you not in a sense-separating the sin from the sinner? > David ask yourself this-What if the Spirit leads one of us > to rebuke a person for sin and you weaken that rebuke? What > happens to that person that the Lord sent the rebuke to create > fear in? Do you not think that this could very easily > cause you to struggle against God? Rebukes such as these should be done off the forum. It is much more effective that way anyway. No need to grandstand before everyone else when you issue your rebuke. Just write to them privately. Ask them for their phone number and call them on the phone to communicate your rebuke. That would be even better. Or, ask them if you can come visit them. In person would be the best way to communicate your rebuke. Ask the Holy Spirit, Dean. He will tell you that what I am saying is true. David Miller wrote: >> You have rebuked me for allowing non-Christians on the list. >> I have not censored you for that. I would like to see >> continued discussion about it. However, if you start railing >> at me and calling me an idiot and not really discussing the >> differences, then we will have a problem. Dean wrote: > No David-I rebuked you nor allowing them to spend a long > amount of time among the brethren-here on this list. Dean, that is the same thing as not allowing Christians here. What do I say to someone like Dave? "Sorry, Dave, you have been real nice and all, but we only allow Christians on the list and in my judgment you are not one, so you have been banned from the list." By the way, in your opinion, how long do we allow non-Christian visitors before giving them the boot? Dean wrote: > I removed the rebuke after Ruben asked me to-I believe he did > this to create unity between the brethern-I do not think he > fully understood the reasons for the rebuke. I have felt that > I did wrong by removing the rebuke-and this has been an ongoing > deep problem for me to deal with-as it won't go away. I believe that it won't go away because the Lord is dealing with you to learn something here and you can't learn it if you don't press the issue. By confronting this thing and dealing with it, some bit of knowledge is going to find a place in your mind and suddenly you will have understanding. You should not remove a rebuke (if that is even possible) just because someone asks you too, but rather you should repent of a rebuke falsely given with an understanding of why you were wrong to give it. Dean wrote: > When have I railed at you or called you an idiot? > What do you seek to make me out to be? A loud mouth > preacher that rails at people and calls them idiots? LOL. No, Dean, please read my statement again. I was trying to say that if you did these things, then we would have a problem. We don't have a problem because you have not done these things. You are indeed discussing the issues and not resorting to ad hominem arguments. Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] flu shots
Izzy wrote: > BTW, flu shots are not really "big business" for the > drug companies. The (ever-so-helpful-finger-in-everything- > way-too-huge) gov't has made it so unprofitable that > there is a major shortage of flu shots this year--which > is why we have all the media coverage about flu shots > this year. Oh, no, I can't believe you fell for that one. LOL. Just follow the money Izzy, and follow it after this news blitz about the scarcity of flu shots and "not enough profit" propaganda finishes its work. People always want what they can't have, and seeing long lines waiting for shots is going to boost sales in ways that no marketing campaign ever could. I have been immunized against immunizations because I don't believe in them. Exodus 15:26 says, "I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians." If God gives me such a promise, it would be nothing but doubt and unbelief for me to inject myself or my family with these same diseases with the idea that I am going to protect myself from them. I realize that this is a faith walk and a conscience thing that everyone must work out for themselves. I'm not trying to push something on you, just share with you this so that you can understand that I have been immunized against immunizations. Therefore, my eyes are opened to things about this that others cannot see, because I have absolutely no desire to get a flu shot. Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] Faux-Christians
I am not accusing, do you FEEL accused? I am simply stating I love getting told how to witness to the Lost by those that NEVER witness to the LOST. It is the wierdest thing! same crowd that says Street preaching does not work. It does not work for them for the same reason hunting never bags me a deer. I don't hunt. It does not work. "God save us from living in comfort while sinners are sinking into hell!" Spurgeon Another words what do you know about street preaching? What do you know about witnessing to the down & out in the gutter at a rock concert. Have you ever seen a crowd of Marilyn Manson fans, a group of teens curse God's name. Another teen preaches God's word to this crowd that hates God. He finishes his sermon, with a call for anyone that hears God calling them. A Boy walks out of that crowd as they jeer. The 2 teens kneel and pray, in front of all the mockers. That Boy is now a missionary. Have you ever seen a 70 year old lady get saved? When asked why she waited so long, she said she had never heard the gospel before. Can you believe that in america? That was in New York state. Have you ever seen a preachers boy, at the beer blast in the street, get on his knees in that street, & get right with God? A friend of mine was preaching at Beale Street, to a drunk rowdy crowd. They were blaspheming God's name. I will not repeat the mixture of His name with the acts that they applied to it. My friend said God told him to preach "What does it take to get God in a KILLING Mood?" Could God have really given this sermon to him? He preached that sermon. Rolled his Banner up and walked away. As we got to the corner, seconds later. A car came rushing down the intersecting street. It honked, people looked the wrong way down the one way. Two stepped into the street. Have you ever heard a body slam onto a car? Have you ever seen a body fly about 10 yards & then slam onto the pavement? The crowd screemed, there was a lot of crying. There was no more Blasphemy. I was there. The BIG RUFF NASTY Street preachers. Cried their eyes out & prayed. Have you ever fellowshipped with and worked with?; Acts 15:26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. I have it just might change your life. "Love will find a way. Indifference will find an excuse." [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I would rather loose a few fish, while fishing, than to never cast a line! I love those that don't fish exponding on what lures to use! **Kevin you are speaking in ignorance. You don't know what I do, or have done so why are you allowing yourself to be used as a voice for the accuser? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Non-Christians have no right to tell Christians how to behave as Christians. (How would a faux- Christian know???) Izzy **I understand that I am on your "ignore" list Izzy but do you have any idea how obnoxious the above sounds? You talk as though a non-believer has no sense at all. They may not know what you know but they have their own spiritual antenna up and this kind of thing is what drives them as far away from the Christian church and professing Christians as they can get ... -Original Message- DAVEH: I think Judy has given you some good reasons, so I don't feel a need to repeat them. However Kevin, what I will repeat is something I've mentioned to Ruben and Dean previously. Have any of the protesters or other Christians who condone such behavior given any thought to the image such displays of unChristian behavior projects to the outside world? Do the protesters want non Christians to think this is normal behavior in the Christian community? Do you Yahoo!?Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
[TruthTalk] I found it Blaine...but you lost it
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Kevin wrote:>> Why also is the LDS HIGH PRIEST who asualted >> one of the "preachers", called a HERO by the >> LDS? I call that a THUG! My pastor would not >> asault someone for holding underwear? Is this >> how yor HIGH PRIESTS behave?Judy:> You fellows were tweaking him on purpose Kevin > and his reaction was violent because to him > those garments are sacred whether it makes any > sense to you or not. Judy, would you assault someone waving your sacred Scriptures around inthe air? I don't understand why you would defend violence againstpeaceful protesters. ***No because I've heard some professing believers do worse than wave them around in the air. I'm not defending violence, but after raising four kids I've learned that you don't tweak someone with impugnity and I believe the Street Preachers knew they would get a reaction and this is why they were waving the underwear about in front of the Temple during one of the busiest times. Kevin wrote:>> Why the BIG Play on the emotions of others to try >> and pressure us to stop? When that failed why the >> pressure thru city hall to write City ordinances >> to silence our speech & put away our signs & consign >> us to a location up the street?Judy:> Our National Constitution guarantees freedom of > religion for everyone and that includes the Mormons. It also guarantees our right to protest false religion on publicproperty. Why do you support the taking away of this right? You are onthe wrong side on this one Judy. They want to use money to take awayfreedom. They want the right to buy public property so that free speechcannot take place near their Temple. That tells me that their Temple isevil. ***I don't support taking away any rights but isn't there a Public Park in Salt Lake City where the Street Preachers can go and it would be less contentious and more conducive to persuading and communicating with people without a scene? Judy wrote:> What we (the Christian Church) need to do is get > our own act together as a body of believers. Amen! All the churches should be down there reproving Mormonism formisrepresenting Christianity. ***Anyone who is born again and filled with the Holy Spirit knows that Mormonism is a different gospel with another spirit. So what is the problem? Judy:> You are a threat to their peace and you are coming > against what they hold to be sacred. They are not a threat to their peace. That is one of the enemy's lies.Their only hope for peace is in the message being brought to them. ***Not if they can't receive the blessing because of the obnoxious way it is being presented. Judy wrote:> Jesus didn't cast himself down from the pillar > of the temple so why do it today and think there> will be no consequences? No, Jesus went INTO THE TEMPLE and cast out the defilers. Some havedone that too, but the Mormons have them thrown in jail. I guess theywould throw Jesus in jail too if he anonymously did to their Temple whatJesus did to the Jewish Temple. ***Why go into a pagan temple and try to cleanse that? Jesus went into the temple in Jerusalem which was supposed to be His Father's house and the ppl he rebuked were supposed to be genuine. But he didn't make a public spectacle of himself by casting himself down from the roof of the temple like the devil was wanting him to Grace and Peace, Judy
RE: [TruthTalk] HAPPY YULE DAY!!
Izzy wrote: > The best argument I've heard yet for Believers > to NOT have a Christmas tree. Why? So if pagan's eat with a fork, then we had better use a spoon instead? If pagan's celebrate birthdays, then we better not? If pagan's name the months or days of the week after their false gods, then we better not own a calendar? Where does all this end? Who made the tree? GOD DID! Odin did not make the tree. These false gods are nothing. But the creator of all things made the tree, so if it creates a festive atmosphere reminding us of the giver of life who will warm us again and take care of us as winter comes upon us, what is wrong with that? Why should we let the pagans take away what God has given to us? You know, the Satanists read the Lord's prayer in their meetings. Is that a good argument for why we should not read the Lord's prayer? (why is it called the Lord's prayer anyway, isn't it the disciple's prayer?) Maybe we should not read the Bible at all since so many false religions use the Bible. Sorry, but this kind of logic simply escapes me. Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] I found it Blaine...but you lost it
LDS have been asaulting us with impunity for years. The police have actually aided the thugs to escape. This was before we used garments. the Secret Service Bouncers at the temple gates have even asaulted a group of tracters. Not preachers! They have also asualted the pastor from Jude 3 missions Kurt Van Gorden. These people are VIOLENT decievers! I can send the news articles on the above. The LDS publicly denied all of the above until someone got a video of the asaults on TV news. Then they said it was just a problem of education! Until you catch them with their hand in the cookie jar, they play the fine upstanding citizen routine. It is just a THIN Vineer. Do you support a LDS HIGH PRIEST, asaulting a young man of about 130 lbs The LDS was over 200 He attacked him from behind put him in a choke hold, dragged himm down the sidewalk. then knocked him to the ground. he said in the paper he was a martial artist & could have broken his arm if he wanted to. I was an eyewitness to this. In fact I was praying in a circle with about 7 Christians when this man came up to the circle and started screaming so loud I could not hear the prayers. I looked up after a while, he then walked down the sidewalk about 10 fet and attacked the young man. Do you support the death threats? Were we asking for them? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Kevin wrote:>> Why also is the LDS HIGH PRIEST who asualted >> one of the "preachers", called a HERO by the >> LDS? I call that a THUG! My pastor would not >> asault someone for holding underwear? Is this >> how yor HIGH PRIESTS behave?Judy:> You fellows were tweaking him on purpose Kevin > and his reaction was violent because to him > those garments are sacred whether it makes any > sense to you or not. Judy, would you assault someone waving your sacred Scriptures around inthe air? I don't understand why you would defend violence againstpeaceful protesters. ***No because I've heard some professing believers do worse than wave them around in the air. I'm not defending violence, but after raising four kids I've learned that you don't tweak someone with impugnity and I believe the Street Preachers knew they would get a reaction and this is why they were waving the underwear about in front of the Temple during one of the busiest times. Kevin wrote:>> Why the BIG Play on the emotions of others to try >> and pressure us to stop? When that failed why the >> pressure thru city hall to write City ordinances >> to silence our speech & put away our signs & consign >> us to a location up the street?Judy:> Our National Constitution guarantees freedom of > religion for everyone and that includes the Mormons. It also guarantees our right to protest false religion on publicproperty. Why do you support the taking away of this right? You are onthe wrong side on this one Judy. They want to use money to take awayfreedom. They want the right to buy public property so that free speechcannot take place near their Temple. That tells me that their Temple isevil. ***I don't support taking away any rights but isn't there a Public Park in Salt Lake City where the Street Preachers can go and it would be less contentious and more conducive to persuading and communicating with people without a scene? Judy wrote:> What we (the Christian Church) need to do is get > our own act together as a body of believers. Amen! All the churches should be down there reproving Mormonism formisrepresenting Christianity. ***Anyone who is born again and filled with the Holy Spirit knows that Mormonism is a different gospel with another spirit. So what is the problem? Judy:> You are a threat to their peace and you are coming > against what they hold to be sacred. They are not a threat to their peace. That is one of the enemy's lies.Their only hope for peace is in the message being brought to them. ***Not if they can't receive the blessing because of the obnoxious way it is being presented. Judy wrote:> Jesus didn't cast himself down from the pillar > of the temple so why do it today and think there> will be no consequences? No, Jesus went INTO THE TEMPLE and cast out the defilers. Some havedone that too, but the Mormons have them thrown in jail. I guess theywould throw Jesus in jail too if he anonymously did to their Temple whatJesus did to the Jewish Temple. ***Why go into a pagan temple and try to cleanse that? Jesus went into the temple in Jerusalem which was supposed to be His Father's house and the ppl he rebuked were supposed to be genuine. But he didn't make a public spectacle of himself by casting himself down from the roof of the temple like the devil was wanting him to Grace and Peace, Judy Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
RE: [TruthTalk] I found it Blaine...but you lost it
David Miller wrote: >> I guess they would throw Jesus in jail too if he >> anonymously did to their Temple what Jesus did >> to the Jewish Temple. Judy wrote: > ***Why go into a pagan temple and try to cleanse > that? Jesus went into the temple in Jerusalem which > was supposed to be His Father's house and the ppl > he rebuked were supposed to be genuine. But he didn't > make a public spectacle of himself by casting himself > down from the roof of the temple like the devil was > wanting him to Not a lot of time, but let me quickly respond to this... The Mormons represent that this Temple is the Father's house. Is that right Dave? Correct me if I am wrong. Therefore, I think the analogy is right. This is not a "pagan temple." (Have I got this right Dave? Your temple is not pagan, right?). Remember that Jesus said that the father of the Pharisees was the devil. I think the situation here is very similar to the Mormon one. The Temple is to Father God, but the leadership follow the devil. The Bible does not tell us, but maybe Jesus even got jailed for doing this kind of thing. It would make the crucifixion seem more plausible in that the justice system doesn't usually kill someone who doesn't have some kind of jail record already. Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] I found it Blaine...but you lost it
How about your comments on the UN Chriastian behavior of the LDS HIGH PRIEST? How about comments on why LDS Security Attacks individuals handing out only printed, literature on a PUBLIC sidewalk? Why is your church one of the only churches with bouncers? What is so UN Christian about standing on a PUBLIC sidewalk and Holding a pair of Magic Undies in the air? Why does your church owned TV station set up a fix to paint the street preachers as "breaking up wedding parties" "calling brides whores"? 1) Take a picture of preachers on sidewalk 2) take a picture of bride & groom inside compound behind fence, protected by bouncers 3) send out 1 lady holding a PROP (veil - no bride No Bridegroom No wedding party take pictures) Hocus Pocus we have a STORY! What MAN would allow us to call his brand new wife a whore? These stories & others go around the world. I have had my image on KSL more than any other man except for Mayor Rocky in SLC! Sorry but the fact is, LDS are Liars, Decievers, Seducers! Please no blubering about taunting and all that hot air. Just answers. Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Kevin Deegan wrote: What exactly is so BAD about a PUBLIC display of Temple attire? DAVEH: I think Judy has given you some good reasons, so I don't feel a need to repeat them. However Kevin, what I will repeat is something I've mentioned to Ruben and Dean previously. Have any of the protesters or other Christians who condone such behavior given any thought to the image such displays of unChristian behavior projects to the outside world? Do the protesters want non Christians to think this is normal behavior in the Christian community? Why also is the LDS HIGH PRIEST who asualted one of the "preachers", called a HEROby the LDS?I call that a THUG!My pastor would not asault someone for holding underwear?Is this how yor HIGH PRIESTS behave? Why the BIG Play on the emotions of others to try and pressure us to stop?When that failed why the pressure thru city hall to write City ordinances to silence our speech & put away our signs & consign us to a location up the street? We are getting through to LDS and the Church will do anything to silence us.This includes FALSE news stories in the Church owned papers & TV stations.Back room meetings with City government officials who are LDS.It also Includes, PHYSICAL ASUALT by LDS BOUNCERS (those security guards with cameras & the little ear pieces like secret service) intimidation, & death threats. What a wonderful community Salt Lake.I really like the FITHY language of the LDS priests at the priesthood meetings. I have to go to the drunk crowd at the Mardi Gras to get the same filthy language.Of all the other events even the UN Churched do not speak like that priesthood crowd.I even have tape of some Priest saying G D Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: David Miller wrote: > Generally speaking, however, I don't think street preachers go out of > their way to be disrespectful. There are always exceptions. DAVEH: Would you think the public display of the street preachers in SLC waving LDS underwear is one of those exceptions? > > > Peace be with you. > David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE. Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
RE: [TruthTalk] Dean & Ruben
I have but lately they have decided to asault & arrest any ANTIs I have taken the Misiionary lessons (I have a copy) I have read the books I have studied the books & doctrine I have talked to thousands of LDS what is your point? We can not get a FAIR representation from ANTI materials? ps. You can call me ANTI if I can call you ANTI-Baptist Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > [Original Message]> From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To: TruthTalk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> Date: 12/21/2003 12:38:43 PM> Subject: [TruthTalk] Dean & Ruben>> DAVEH: I am curious as to whether either of you two (Dean and/or Ruben)> have walked through Temple Square as a normal visitor rather than a> protester? Have either of you been inside and toured the visitors> center or heard the Tabernacle Choir or walked the grounds?Deam writes:Are kidding? Your brethern will not even let us close to those sites.Ittook hours for me to nagociate a two foot square in front of the northgate-and then they only gave that to me if I agreed not to walk back andforth thru the crowds as I preached about Christ dying for the sins of theworld-and to keep God's commandments. I had no Mormon underclothing-no onewas rebuked-only a bible and that message-and the Mormons hated that.Sometime when we would get tired-after standing for hours we would sit on ashort wall by the sidewalk and they would come and tell us to not even siton their wall-our feet would still be on the public sidewalk. What if weare in agreement with God's word-what then?>>> --> ~~~> Dave Hansen> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.langlitz.com> ~~~> If you wish to receive> things I find interesting,> I maintain Five email lists...> JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,> STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.>>> --> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you mayknow how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)http://www.InnGlory.org>> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have afriend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
Re: [TruthTalk] The Basis of Christian Fellowship
How is God expressing that LOVE to those that are presently in HELL? I once saw a tract that had a picture of Noah's Ark on the cover. There were people scattered in and treading water, all around the ark. On the side of the Ark, in BIG letters was written, SMILE, God Loves you! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: "Terry Clifton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> If the below be true, how can Jesus tell the vast majority of those He loved,"I never knew you. Depart from me". Terry I wrote: it is impossible to love people and reject them at the same time. Grace and Peace, Judy ** Jesus loved all of us enough to die for us which so far as I'm concerned is genuine love. He offers us eternal life on His terms not ours and His terms are that we fulfill the law of Christ or 'royal law' which is "LOVE" He says that if we love him we will do what He says (John 14:15,23) He promises the crown of life to them that love him (James 1:12) He promises the Kingdom to them that love Him (James 2:5) Mark 12:30,31 says there is no commandment greater than LOVE Luke 6:35,36 says that God is kind to the unthankful and to the evil. Romans 13:10 says that love works no ill to anyone and love is the fulfilling of God's Law 1 John 5:2,3 says - For this is the love of God that we keep His commandments. By the time Jesus tells these people who thought they were serving Him 'depart from me you who practice lawlessness' they will have had time to get it together. It is our responsibility to search the scriptures and learn what is expected of us. No man got us into the Kingdom and no man can kick us out. But I don't believe many of us understand this kind of love because it's spiritual and so we try to transpose what we have been used to which is really no love at all, it is performance oriented acceptance. Hope this makes what I'm trying to communicate a little clearer. Grace and Peace, Judy Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
[TruthTalk] I found it Blaine...but you lost it
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>David Miller wrote:>> I guess they would throw Jesus in jail too if he >> anonymously did to their Temple what Jesus did >> to the Jewish Temple.Judy wrote:> ***Why go into a pagan temple and try to cleanse > that? Jesus went into the temple in Jerusalem which > was supposed to be His Father's house and the ppl > he rebuked were supposed to be genuine. But he didn't> make a public spectacle of himself by casting himself > down from the roof of the temple like the devil was > wanting him to Not a lot of time, but let me quickly respond to this... **I don't have a lot of time either, expecting company but don't think I can agree with you on this one. The Mormons represent that this Temple is the Father's house. Is thatright Dave? Correct me if I am wrong. Therefore, I think the analogyis right. This is not a "pagan temple." (Have I got this right Dave?Your temple is not pagan, right?). **But those walking in the light know that it is not the Father's House First because God no longer put's his name on buildings, His house is the body of Christ, living stones, a human temple. Remember that Jesus said that the father of the Pharisees was the devil.I think the situation here is very similar to the Mormon one. TheTemple is to Father God, but the leadership follow the devil. **He said that only because of their behavior and their spiritual blindness. He also told the people to listen to what they said because they sat in Moses seat - but not to follow their example as to deeds so I don't see a similarity here. The Bible does not tell us, but maybe Jesus even got jailed for doingthis kind of thing. It would make the crucifixion seem more plausiblein that the justice system doesn't usually kill someone who doesn't havesome kind of jail record already. **I doubt it - the reason the thief was saved on the cross was because he knew Jesus was innocent and had done nothing wrong. If he had been in prison ppl would have known it. Our justice system may not be perfect but it is for everyone's benefit and is God ordained. Grace and Peace, Judy
Re: [TruthTalk] The Basis of Christian Fellowship
God's word is THE RULE BOOK! 1 Co 14: If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. So if I understand what you are saying it is that you place yourself ABOVE God's word here. You Judge God's word. You are the rule book. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> [Original Message] > I hope you make some time to answer some of my posts along these lines.> I think the sin lies with those who excommunicate believers for their> theology rather than with someone like Judy who has a Mormon over for> the holidays. Please stick around long enough to talk about it, rather> than just stating your position and running off. Dean writes:As In stated earlier-I will stay around awhile-when last I was here-Ianswered/discussed these topic for over a year (Maybe 2)-How long would youhave me discuss the same issue? When have I ever spoken and run? If youever want me to come back to your site you have my e-mail address? But I amlimited on how much time I can spend with those of false doctrine. Judy: Dean thinking you alone have ALL the "right" doctrine and that nothing YOU believe is false is a point of pride because none of us have the whole loaf (all of Jesus) we are all learners and we need each other. You bind ppl when you lock them into their present state with no hope that they can or will ever change. We changed and hopefully are still changing as we walk this highway of holiness, so why can't they, Lord willing? The Mormon who is coming to our house for Christmas dinner is from a poor family in the Solomon Islands, there are seven sons and the father is a farmer there. This boy was raised 7th Day Adventist because those were the first missionaries to come to his island and apparently the whole island pretty much converted to that sect (I consider 7th Day Adventism to be legalistic and cultish also) but God will use whatever is available. This boy rebelled for some years until the Mormons found him and gave him hope for a future in the secular world. He is studying at their University now. I am not sure that he is permanently locked in to their theology but he practices it for now, I see him as someone with potential for whom Christ died. If God could knock the pharisee Saul off his horse and save him, if He could follow me halfway around the world through years of vanity and pride not giving up on me, then why should I give up on other seemingly hopeless cases? How can I give up on people and cut them off, judging by outward appearance alone? Have you given a lot of prayer and thought to these issues Dean? The NT is not a rule book and His banner over us is love, it is impossible to love people and reject them at the same time. Grace and Peace, Judy Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
Re: [TruthTalk] Just the BIBLE Dave
Liars Decievers Seducers That is part of the SEDUCER Always give the appearance of piousness All Phony men of God put on the Dog & Pony show for the Sheeples. Ever watch the Pope? Why does he always walk around with his hands clasped as in prayer? Why all the dresses that they wear? The smoke & incense? The LARGE cathedrals? The candles & beautiful artwork, windows? A good example is the announcer at the Hill Cumorah pag. He has this sicky pleasing voice. I wish I had audio, I can mimic it to a tee to give you an idea. He can conjure up FEELINGS thru his voice. eg. Ever hear someone refer to a "WARM" voice? Attendees are later told if they had a feeling that was the Spirit. They should go to the kiosk. As in SEDUCING SPIRITS! TALK is CHEAP! There are lots of people put on a good TALK but few that have a good WALK. God is interested in your Heart service NOT your lip service!The bible says to love not just in Word but in deed![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Dean, Hey is this really what you mean? Not to be antagonistic, butthis sounds like YOU have a devil in YOU. Dave is always so calm, andcollected, and REASOBABLE, above all!! I get the feeling you are frustrated because . . . ? BlainerBOn Wed, 17 Dec 2003 07:45:14 -0500 "Dean Moore"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>writes:> > > DAVEH: OK, Dean..if not my remarks, what does make you so angry > (sounding)? > > Dean writes 12/17> In all honesty DaveH-When I see the brethren interacting with you as > one of their own-without any caution for the spirit that drives > you-this angers me. The Bible is clear 1 John 3:8> He that commith sin is of the Devil... To promote JS and his > teachings is sin -for those teaching are against the clear words of > Christ-Hence you are of the Devil. If you are honestly searching as > you claim then you would have listened to our teaching to some > extent -that are proven by the Bible-but you have not-and still > promote JS after about appx. 5 yrs of being here. To me this proves > you are completely controlled by an "unsavory spirit" and are among > our younger brethren. How would you feel if I were allowed to spend > time among the young Mormons-teaching as I do -saying what I say? > And then when you come in to instruct what you perceive as truth-The > young Mormons declare:" No we love Dean let him stay for we are > learning much from him" which prove the teaching are taking effect. > Assume you can prove beyond any doubt that you have the truth and my > teaching would lead the young Mormons to suffer greatly in hell-for > all eternity. Yet the principle of the school fails to listen > (because he believes he has it all under control-and > enjoys the attention my teaching create) and so do the children-who > are unable to see the danger. Would you be concerned for the > children-would you be angry with me?Would you fight hard for those > children-Would you attempt to expose that Principle to the Mormon > elders-for the sake of the Children? Remember Judy stated to me that > the Mormons way was better then the Preacher's way of promoting the > Gospel ( Mormons promote the Gospel of the Christ of the Bible?-not > so). DavidM remarked earlier that Judy listened to the Mormons more > than to him. Yet you are allowed to continue on-even smiling at me > asking "Are you getting angry Dean :-) And Judy said that I should > love you also. But DaveH I am really not angry at you for you will > do as you devil directs-similar to a puppet-I am angry at the spirit > that pulls you strings-and will fight harder at SLC this year-and I > am fustrated at the older brethren whom should know better-which > puts me in a difficult position for I am commanded to love them > also-so yes- I should pray-as I know that I a> m correct in this-and will seek to prove that-Lord willing .> Gal 5:9 A little laven leaveneth the whole lump.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
RE: [TruthTalk] Dean & Ruben
David, I have done all that you mentioned, including visiting the ancestral library. I was attending a trade show and conference at the Salt Palace and invited my LDS mother-in-law to share the room with me. While I "conferenced", she "genealogied". In fact, I thought it was quite unholy, an evangelical Chrstian, while walking towards Tempe Square, was approached by two Jahovah's Witnesses. Is nothing sacred? (VBG) We also had dinner on the top floor of the building next to the temple and overlooking it, as was my mother-in-law's desire. I also took time off one of the days to ride the bus out to the Utah Lighthouse Mission. It is a Christian mission to Mormons run by two former LDS members, Gerald and Sandra Tanner. Mrs. Tanner claims to be an 8th great-grandchild of Brigham Young, and I thought to myself, why is that so special? Half of the women in the state can make that claim! The more I have studied Mormonism, the more deeply I have become convinced of it's heretical nature, and the deceptions of JS, the heriatage of the "Temple" ceremonies, Masonry.( BTW, I come from a family steeped in Masonic tradition...my father, both grandfathers, and two uncles were, and are, Masons. My mother was in the Eastern Star at one time many years ago, and my grandmother, after my grandfather's passing, lived in the Masonic Orphans and Widows home for while. Despite the heavy tradition, I have never been tempted to become a Mason, or have anything to do with it.) Perry >From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: TruthTalk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: [TruthTalk] Dean & Ruben >Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 09:27:29 -0800 > >DAVEH: I am curious as to whether either of you two (Dean and/or Ruben) >have walked through Temple Square as a normal visitor rather than a >protester? Have either of you been inside and toured the visitors >center or heard the Tabernacle Choir or walked the grounds? > > >-- > ~~~ > Dave Hansen > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.langlitz.com > ~~~ > If you wish to receive > things I find interesting, > I maintain Five email lists... > JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, > STUFF and MOTORCYCLE. > > >-- >"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org > >If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Its our best dial-up Internet access offer: 6 months @$9.95/month. Get it now! -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] I didn't do that freaking email
>From: "Arsene Lupin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >CPL: AP, TPW, why do you not reveal your real name as most of the >TT'rs have. Is there something you're afraid of, or are you hiding >from someone or something? >TPW: Not fearful, I am in a line of work that requires me to. It's >nothing personal and furthermore, what would my true identity bring >you anyways? what possible use could you have for it? So, you fear that someone in your line of work might find out that you are a pagan, so you are hiding it from them. I suspected you had something to hide. What line of work are you in that requires such secrecy? Or are you just embarassed to admit openly that you are a pagan? >Besides PPL know me as THE PAGAN WOLF anyways. That user name has >practically an Identity of it's own. I get it. Sort of like "Mickey Mouse". Working moms: Find helpful tips here on managing kids, home, work and yourself. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] flu shots
David: Exodus 15:26 says, "I will put none of these diseases upon thee, > which I have brought upon the Egyptians." If God gives me such a > promise, it would be nothing but doubt and unbelief for me to inject > myself or my family with these same diseases with the idea that I am > going to protect myself from them. Marlin: We agree on this! -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] flu shots
> [Original Message] > From: Marlin Halverson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 12/21/2003 7:50:49 PM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] flu shots > > David: Exodus 15:26 says, "I will put none of these diseases upon thee, > > which I have brought upon the Egyptians." If God gives me such a > > promise, it would be nothing but doubt and unbelief for me to inject > > myself or my family with these same diseases with the idea that I am > > going to protect myself from them. > > Marlin: We agree on this! Dean writes: Hey guys-I thought I had to get this shot to travel to Europe-but once I got there I discovered that non of the brethren had to get one-they probably never caught the flu virus either-I wonder what will happen next from the tetanus shot I also got-come to think of it my jaw does feel strange:-) > -- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Will we be gods?
BlaineRB: I THINK we agree here, but MAYBE NOT No authoritative Mormon ever taught THAT we intend to be equal with God, or the trinity, or whatever you choose to call it. We believe we will be Gods in the sense that we will have access to all power that is God's, to continue in eternity--as the parable of the prodigal son suggests, the faithful son was given access to all that his father possessed. You make a fine distinction here, hedging your bets? If you progress forever you will reach and pass the pointy that the LDS heavenly father is at right now. "As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become." Lorenzo Snow, Millennial Star, Vol 54, pg 404 But he will progress further, so you will never catch him. Besides he will have his planet & you will have yours. he will have his eternal seed & you yours. Question, I have always wondered about this. it is real puzzling. If you worship this father are you sealed to him as his seed? Then how can you break his family circle to start your own planet? In fact how can all the males joined to you for all eternity leave and do their own planet? God's offspring, we have His attributes in us. We are gods in embryo, and thus have an unlimited potential for progress and attainment. Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p21 "Here then is eternal life - to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priest to God, the same as all gods have done before you --- and to sit in glory, as do those who sit in everlasting power --- What is it? To inherit the same power, the same glory and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a God, and ascend the throne of eternal power" Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg 346-347 "There never was a time when there were not spirits; for they are co-equal [co-eternal] with our Father in heaven." Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p 353 "As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become." Lorenzo Snow, Millennial Star, Vol 54, pg 404 "To know God we must know ourselves. All the personal attributes which are ascribed to God by men, we find in ourselves. ... Mormonism does not tend to debase God to the level of man, but to exalt man to the perfection of God." Charles W. Penrose (First Counselor to Heber J. Grant), Millenial Star,Vol 23, pg 181 Gospel through the Ages Milton R Hunter p 107 "God and man are of the same race, differing only in their degrees of advancement." Dr John A Widtsoe Rational theology p 61Gospel through the Ages Milton R Hunter p 107 DC 132:19 Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; . . . and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths . . . they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things" Dictionary \Ex`al*ta"tion\, n. [L. exaltatio: cf. F. exaltation.]1. The act of exalting or raising high; also, the state of being exalted; elevation. 2. (Alchemy-wizardry) The refinement or subtilization of a body, or the increasing of its virtue or principal property. 3. (Astrology) That place of a planet in the zodiac in which it was supposed to exert its strongest influence. \Ex`al*ta"tion\, n. (Medical)An abnormal sense of personal well-being, power, orimportance, -- a symptom observed in various forms of insanity. JOE says: to sit in glory, as do those who sit in everlasting power To inherit the same power, the same glory and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a God, and ascend the throne of eternal power" SATAN says: Is 14;13-14 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. So what is the difference between Joe & Satan? Is there SOME truth in Both of them? God says: Is 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. God sys no throne for you just a pit! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]BlaineRB: I THINK we agree here, but MAYBE NOT No authoritative Mormon ever taught THAT we intend to be equal with God, or the trinity, or whatever you choose to call it. We believe we will be Gods in the sense that we will have access to all power that is God's, to continue in eternity--as the parable of the prodigal son suggests, the faithful son was given access to all that his father possessed. Judy: Blaine your system is an "adept/occult" one just like the tower of Babel where everyone ascends to heaven step by step. The following are the words of your founder Joseph Smith and are taken from a sermon given at the funeral of Elder Follett just two months before his (Smith's) assassination in Carthage, Illinois. Joseph Smith says (as recorded in Times & Seasons August 1, 1844): "I am
RE: [TruthTalk] Mormon view of the godhead
Here is Joe's sad understanding of the trinity: Many men say there is one God; the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are only one God. I say that is a strange God [anyhow]--three in one and one in three. . .It is curious organization All are crammed into one God according to sectarianism. It would make the biggest God in all the world. He would be a wonderfully big God--he would be a giant or a monster. Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet J S , p 372 Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] The Basis of Christian Fellowship
From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> How is God expressing that LOVE to those that are presently in HELL? **Cute. Those presently in Hell had plenty of time to get their house in order. Are you saying that God is unjust and/or a respecter of persons? Kevin: I once saw a tract that had a picture of Noah's Ark on the cover. There were people scattered in and treading water, all around the ark. On the side of the Ark, in BIG letters was written, SMILE, God Loves you! **And what was that all about? you seem to be full of cliches and what is going on in the religious world Kevin.. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: "Terry Clifton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> If the below be true, how can Jesus tell the vast majority of those He loved,"I never knew you. Depart from me". Terry I wrote: it is impossible to love people and reject them at the same time. Grace and Peace, Judy ** Jesus loved all of us enough to die for us which so far as I'm concerned is genuine love. He offers us eternal life on His terms not ours and His terms are that we fulfill the law of Christ or 'royal law' which is "LOVE" He says that if we love him we will do what He says (John 14:15,23) He promises the crown of life to them that love him (James 1:12) He promises the Kingdom to them that love Him (James 2:5) Mark 12:30,31 says there is no commandment greater than LOVE Luke 6:35,36 says that God is kind to the unthankful and to the evil. Romans 13:10 says that love works no ill to anyone and love is the fulfilling of God's Law 1 John 5:2,3 says - For this is the love of God that we keep His commandments. By the time Jesus tells these people who thought they were serving Him 'depart from me you who practice lawlessness' they will have had time to get it together. It is our responsibility to search the scriptures and learn what is expected of us. No man got us into the Kingdom and no man can kick us out. But I don't believe many of us understand this kind of love because it's spiritual and so we try to transpose what we have been used to which is really no love at all, it is performance oriented acceptance. Hope this makes what I'm trying to communicate a little clearer. Grace and Peace, Judy Do you Yahoo!?Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
[TruthTalk] The Basis of Christian Fellowship
From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> God's word is THE RULE BOOK! 1 Co 14: If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. **The Commandment of the Lord is to love God, and others; what part of this don't you understand? Love fulfills the law and the prophets. So if I understand what you are saying it is that you place yourself ABOVE God's word here. You Judge God's word. You are the rule book. **You are not understanding what I am saying Kevin. I am not judging God's Word. I am working on doing God's Word. You deny accusing but here is another accusation coming from you - that I am judging God's Word. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> [Original Message] > I hope you make some time to answer some of my posts along these lines.> I think the sin lies with those who excommunicate believers for their> theology rather than with someone like Judy who has a Mormon over for> the holidays. Please stick around long enough to talk about it, rather> than just stating your position and running off. Dean writes:As In stated earlier-I will stay around awhile-when last I was here-Ianswered/discussed these topic for over a year (Maybe 2)-How long would youhave me discuss the same issue? When have I ever spoken and run? If youever want me to come back to your site you have my e-mail address? But I amlimited on how much time I can spend with those of false doctrine. Judy: Dean thinking you alone have ALL the "right" doctrine and that nothing YOU believe is false is a point of pride because none of us have the whole loaf (all of Jesus) we are all learners and we need each other. You bind ppl when you lock them into their present state with no hope that they can or will ever change. We changed and hopefully are still changing as we walk this highway of holiness, so why can't they, Lord willing? The Mormon who is coming to our house for Christmas dinner is from a poor family in the Solomon Islands, there are seven sons and the father is a farmer there. This boy was raised 7th Day Adventist because those were the first missionaries to come to his island and apparently the whole island pretty much converted to that sect (I consider 7th Day Adventism to be legalistic and cultish also) but God will use whatever is available. This boy rebelled for some years until the Mormons found him and gave him hope for a future in the secular world. He is studying at their University now. I am not sure that he is permanently locked in to their theology but he practices it for now, I see him as someone with potential for whom Christ died. If God could knock the pharisee Saul off his horse and save him, if He could follow me halfway around the world through years of vanity and pride not giving up on me, then why should I give up on other seemingly hopeless cases? How can I give up on people and cut them off, judging by outward appearance alone? Have you given a lot of prayer and thought to these issues Dean? The NT is not a rule book and His banner over us is love, it is impossible to love people and reject them at the same time. Grace and Peace, Judy Do you Yahoo!?Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
RE: [TruthTalk] I found it Blaine...but you lost it
Dean wrote: > Here is a picture of Ruben and I in front of the > Church of Jesus Christ sign in front of the Temple > on the north Gate of Temple Square. Hi Dean. I like the picture, but you have to learn some things about sending pictures on e-mail. That picture was 1 MB in size, which doesn't mean much to guys with DSL or CABLE connections, but our dial-up users have to wait a long time for it to download. They can see pretty much the same thing if you do the following: 1. Save the pic in JPG (JPEG) format instead of BMP (bump). 2. Set your resolution between 72 and 96 dpi for screen viewing. 3. Reduce the size to about anywhere from 250 to 600 pixels along one side. Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] The Basis of Christian Fellowship
I am absolutely NOT saying God is unjust. he will Judge people in righteousness. he cast people into hell. i am just saying he shows NO LOVE to those that are in Hell. I am just saying he is a God of love AND a God of Righteous Judgement. One of those judgements is casting people in hell. SMILE God loves you on the Ark makes NO sense. God was not displaying his love on those that he drowned. Men Women and CHILDREN. God's judgement is Fearful & terrible! Cliches? Like what? Example?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> How is God expressing that LOVE to those that are presently in HELL? **Cute. Those presently in Hell had plenty of time to get their house in order. Are you saying that God is unjust and/or a respecter of persons? Kevin: I once saw a tract that had a picture of Noah's Ark on the cover. There were people scattered in and treading water, all around the ark. On the side of the Ark, in BIG letters was written, SMILE, God Loves you! **And what was that all about? you seem to be full of cliches and what is going on in the religious world Kevin.. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: "Terry Clifton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> If the below be true, how can Jesus tell the vast majority of those He loved,"I never knew you. Depart from me". Terry I wrote: it is impossible to love people and reject them at the same time. Grace and Peace, Judy ** Jesus loved all of us enough to die for us which so far as I'm concerned is genuine love. He offers us eternal life on His terms not ours and His terms are that we fulfill the law of Christ or 'royal law' which is "LOVE" He says that if we love him we will do what He says (John 14:15,23) He promises the crown of life to them that love him (James 1:12) He promises the Kingdom to them that love Him (James 2:5) Mark 12:30,31 says there is no commandment greater than LOVE Luke 6:35,36 says that God is kind to the unthankful and to the evil. Romans 13:10 says that love works no ill to anyone and love is the fulfilling of God's Law 1 John 5:2,3 says - For this is the love of God that we keep His commandments. By the time Jesus tells these people who thought they were serving Him 'depart from me you who practice lawlessness' they will have had time to get it together. It is our responsibility to search the scriptures and learn what is expected of us. No man got us into the Kingdom and no man can kick us out. But I don't believe many of us understand this kind of love because it's spiritual and so we try to transpose what we have been used to which is really no love at all, it is performance oriented acceptance. Hope this makes what I'm trying to communicate a little clearer. Grace and Peace, Judy Do you Yahoo!?Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
RE: [TruthTalk] I found it Blaine...but you lost it
Judy wrote: > **But those walking in the light know that it is > not the Father's House First because God no longer > put's his name on buildings, His house is the body > of Christ, living stones, a human temple. That's what Stephen preached and was stoned for. Don't you see a similar attitude of the Mormons toward the street preachers as we see in the Jews toward Stephen in Acts 6? Then there arose certain of the synagogue, which is called the synagogue of the Libertines, and Cyrenians, and Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and of Asia, disputing with Stephen. And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake. Then they suborned men, which said, We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses, and against God. And they stirred up the people, and the elders, and the scribes, and came upon him, and caught him, and brought him to the council, And set up false witnesses, which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law: For we have heard him say, that this Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and shall change the customs which Moses delivered us. (Acts 6:9-14 KJV) But Solomon built him an house. Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? Hath not my hand made all these things? Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it. When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth. (Acts 7:47-54 KJV) These passages convey to me a very severe opposition between the people of the Temple and Stephen. Do you see it differently? Judy wrote: > He also told the people to listen to what they said > because they sat in Moses seat - but not to follow > their example as to deeds so I don't see a similarity > here. Well, that is a good point. The Mormons certainly do not sit in Moses's seat. Perhaps a better comparison of the Mormon relationship to Christianity would be to consider the Samaritan relationship to Judaism. Most Jews did not consider Samaritans in the covenant, primarily because they did not recognize Jerusalem as the place where Yahweh put his name. Most Samaritans, on the other hand, considered themselves part of the Mosaic covenant. Do you think the Samaritans and Jews might be a better analogy? David Miller wrote: >> The Bible does not tell us, but maybe Jesus even got >> jailed for doing this kind of thing. It would make >> the crucifixion seem more plausible in that the justice >> system doesn't usually kill someone who doesn't have >> some kind of jail record already. Judy wrote: > **I doubt it - the reason the thief was saved on the > cross was because he knew Jesus was innocent and had > done nothing wrong. If he had been in prison ppl would > have known it. Our justice system may not be perfect > but it is for everyone's benefit and is God ordained. Of course people would have known that Jesus had been in prison, but that does not mean that God would have necessarily seen fit to preserve that information in the Bible. We know that the apostles spent time in jail right away. If they put the apostles in jail, why would we think that Jesus was never put in jail. I mean, what would you do with someone who goes into the Temple with a whip and turns over tables and uses the whip to run people out. Those people legally had a right to be there. Why would you think that they would not put him in jail for doing that? Don't you think that they would have fined him and made him pay for damages? Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
[TruthTalk] Love or Rebuke?/Judy
Jt writes: Thank you for your intent but what would make you think I have a chip on my shoulder Reuben? Just because I'm talking about LOVE? Ruben: Well I read that you have a hard time with men who preach the truth like Dean or Kevin. It appears to me that you seem to think that "love" was the message preached with John the Baptist, Jesus, Apostles and should be declare today. In reality the main theme from Old to New and should be today is and should be repentance. Other than that we must examine ourselves, if we just want to tickle ears and be everyone friend. I've studied for years and have been seriously looking tonight and I can't find what I am reading on TT; yes the prophets rebuked when Israel went off into apostasy but I don't see this pattern in the NT Ruben: I will give you a few examples and I would like you to match the amount of (love message) or examples I am giving you. If you cannot match my examples given then maybe you could at least learn something here. And please do not give me Epistles to read, remember context is important. The Epistles were written to "saints" or "Churches" and not whosoever in that city. If you wish to read what Paul preached on the street in Rome, go to Acts not Romans and if you wish to find out what he preached on the street while in Corinth, go to Acts, 1&2 Corinthians were written to believers. How I speak to Christians that are saved is much different when speaking to unsaved people. John the Baptist (Mt.3:1-12): I think it would be safe to say John was not a suite and tie type of guy? His basic message that he preached to the general people was "Repent ye.." But to those Pharisees and Sadducees that came to him he said "O generation of VIPERS, who hath warned you of the WRATH to come? (note: now this is not the way to win people over John, why did he not give them the four spiritually laws?). He now demands evidence of repentance and not some quick your sealed and saved now deal. John even answered their question before they asked, of being the seed of Abraham (note: now that is a cheap shot, saying that they were no better than stones and if you really want to rebuke "in love"..whatever that means...at least dress up when you represent the Lord, John?). Then he says because they have no fruit the tree is to be chopped down and used for FIRE, in fact the axe has already made contact with the roots and not in the swing mode. Lastly in verse 12 he must bring up this "unquenchable fire".why he called them names, he belittled who they were, he demands fruit or get burned and now this "unquenchable fire?" Why Judy, I think he just turn people off..where is his love.and why must he be disrespectful to other religions..does he start the New Testament with this "ministry of rebuke??" Well, that's not all.eventually John gets jailed..FOR CALLING THE KING AN ADULTERER.has he no shame? Maybe he deserved to go to jail.maybe jail was God judging him for being so offensive..maybe his ministry would have lasted longer if he only preached "God loves you and so do I"??? Or maybe God is being consistent with His messengers? Our Lord Jesus, his first word of his first message was "Repent" (Mt.4:17). Mt. 5:22,29; 7:19; 8:12; 9:13; 10:28; 11:23; 13:30, 40, 42, 50; 17:15; 18:8-9; 22:13, chapter 23; 24:51, 25:30 25:41, 46; Mk.6:12; Lk.13:2-5; 16:23, 24:47; Jn.15:6, These are just a few verses that Jesus preaches on repentance/hell/punishment/fire/torment unlike the famous "John 3:16" verse that I pointed out was never quoted to another person nor mentioned in another Gospel, these verses on hell/punishment/fire/torment can be recited in all three Gospels. If you could match the amount of verses where Jesus preached "God loves you," then I will move on to the Book of Acts to scrutinize, if they preached Repentance or God loves you (note: I don't know about every one else but I'm starting to see a pattern here). = So Jesus words were exclusively for Nicodemus when he said "For God sent not his son into the world to condemn the world but that the world through him might be saved? He that believeth on him is not condemned but he that believeth not is condemned already because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten son of God. And this is the condemnation that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil?" (Jn 3:17-19) Ruben: Well my point was that this very famous verse "John 3:16" was not a common message that was always given, but to one man at night and never repeated in any other Gospel, or another person nor was it rehearsed in the Book of Acts. Whereas the word "Repent" is quoted continuously, so why would people shudder at this word? = Only a half truth Ruben. Shame on you. Jesus first message gave the reason to repent, it was "Repent for the Kingdom of heaven is at hand"
RE: [TruthTalk] I found it Blaine...but you lost it
Judy wrote: > I believe the Street Preachers knew they would get > a reaction and this is why they were waving the > underwear about in front of the Temple during one > of the busiest times. Wait a minute. Are you saying that you think the Street Preachers knew they would get a VIOLENT reaction? Clearly they were trying to get their attention, but that doesn't mean they were seeking a violent reaction. Judy wrote: > ***I don't support taking away any rights but > isn't there a Public Park in Salt Lake City > where the Street Preachers can go and it would be > less contentious and more conducive to persuading > and communicating with people without a scene? >From what I understand, the preachers ARE in a public area that is very conducive for initiating dialogue. The Mormons want to spend millions to convert the public property into private property, just so the public cannot engage in this kind of activity next to their Temple. In other words, they want their privacy. You really do not seem to understand what free speech is all about. If you move the public areas far away on purpose, you are squelching free speech. How can people raise objections to what the Temple if doing to the ones who need to hear it most if you close off the public forums near the Temple? They certainly have a right to their privacy in their buildings, but to go out of their way and spend millions to prohibit criticism only communicates that they have a lot to hide. One thing we can say about the Jewish Temple, they never did that. They recognized areas near the Temple for everyone, including Gentiles, and they separated areas within the Temple where women were not allowed and where only priests could go. Judy wrote: > ***Anyone who is born again and filled with the > Holy Spirit knows that Mormonism is a different > gospel with another spirit. So what is the problem? I disagree. Judy wrote: > ***Not if they can't receive the blessing because > of the obnoxious way it is being presented. Before you lay down a foundation for a house, what do you have to do? You have to clear the lot, remove the old structures, then lay down the foundation and then build the house. Don't try building until you have first cleared the land, and you call that being obnoxious? Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] HAPPY YULE DAY!!
In a message dated 12/21/2003 5:12:22 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Izzy wrote:> The best argument I've heard yet for Believers > to NOT have a Christmas tree.Why? So if pagan's eat with a fork, then we had better use a spooninstead? If pagan's celebrate birthdays, then we better not? Ifpagan's name the months or days of the week after their false gods, thenwe better not own a calendar? Where does all this end?Who made the tree? GOD DID! Odin did not make the tree. These falsegods are nothing. But the creator of all things made the tree, so if itcreates a festive atmosphere reminding us of the giver of life who willwarm us again and take care of us as winter comes upon us, what is wrongwith that? Why should we let the pagans take away what God has given tous?You know, the Satanists read the Lord's prayer in their meetings. Isthat a good argument for why we should not read the Lord's prayer? (whyis it called the Lord's prayer anyway, isn't it the disciple's prayer?)Maybe we should not read the Bible at all since so many false religionsuse the Bible. Sorry, but this kind of logic simply escapes me.Peace be with you.David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. I suspect we can take just about anything and find a pagan use for it. I was thinking today of how the occult uses candles and yet I and just about everyone I know burn candles often. And candles are used in churches. That is just an example. Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Izzy -You are right.
David Miller wrote: > > this forum is setup for discussion, not converting people. > > Everybody here hopefully is interested in talking about what they > believe and answering questions. I can't tell you how much I value > being able to talk with someone like DaveH and Blaine and learn first > hand what Mormons believe and why. There is a level of communication > here that is much better than reading a book. DAVEH: I feel exactly the same way, DavidM. What I don't quite understand is why some TTers (notably, Dean) don't find such a forum to be interesting, informative and useful. In their compelling need to convert others to their way of thinking, it almost seems as though they become irrational in their thinking and actions. To me, this feeling of frustration (at failing to easily accomplish their goals) seems to translate into their actions when protesting in SLC. If I weren't so wrapped up in other time consuming activities, I'd be tempted to set up some kind of round table forum dedicated to just an exchange of ideas without allowing hostile exchanges. I've got a feeling that may not be as easy to control as it seems though. It kinda saddens me to think that even though my primary purpose to be on TT is to find out about the beliefs of Protestants, many TTers now do not want to discuss such with me, and those who do merely want to bury me with anti-Mormon arguments. I do appreciate you (DavidM, Judy and other willing TTers) taking the time to answer my questions though. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Try this one, Blaine.
That works!! BlaineRB On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 22:26:11 -0800 "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Blaine wrote: Perry, your messages go to an attachment whenever I try to reply tothem. Yours are the only ones that do that. Any idea why? Blaine, I have not had anyone else report this particular problem, and I have no idea why they are doing that. Rather than hit "reply" on your last post I greated this as a a new email message. See it it behaves the same. Perry Grab our best dial-up Internet access offer: 6 months @$9.95/month. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] just the BIBLE Dave/Blaine
Hi again Judy,
I think we are closer in beliefs than you think. I don't even
disagree with most of what you have said. However, one of our articles of
faith states,
"We believe men (and women) will be punished for their own
sins, and not for Adam's transgression." We do not believe in
infant baptism, as we believe children are born innocent. Because we did
inherit Adam's fallen nature, however, we believe eventually we will sin--but
not until we understand right from wrong, which starts to happen with most
people at about age eight yrs., an age revealed to JS, by the way. We do
not baptize until that age or older. People who never achieve the mental
age of 8 yrs, are considered to be innocent before God, and will go to heaven
automatically. Children who die before the age of 8 yrs are in the same
category.
Also, we do emulate Jesus Christ, and through his atonement hope to become
like him--but we do this due to his mercy, not as a result of our own
righteousness--we are ALL sinners, right? Basically, our doctrine is
that we will be saved by grace, but only after all we can do for
ourselves. We do not believe we will get a free ride into heaven on
Jesus' coattails. We have to show our faith by being willing to keep
his commandments. If we slip up, then we have to repent and try
again. This can be a long process. But as he has commanded us, "Be ye
therefore perfect, even as my Father in Heaven is
perfect." (The Book of Mormon, by the way, says it
slightly differently--it goes, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as I
and your father in heaven are perfect.)
Peace, BlaineRB
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 02:45:14 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:>
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> >
*** Actually Judy, from my point of view, it seems you are doing
> > > the> > same think (I misspelled "thing"
but decided the new word fit> > better)--reading your own
interpretation into it. Did you get > your> >
interpretation from your minister, or is this your very own >
original> > interp? (">) > > > > Judy:
> > Neither Blaine - this is what the scriptures teach - the
mystery > of> > godliness which is "Christ in you the hope of
glory"> > It's either Christ in you or the antichrist in you with no
hope of > > > glory,> > take your pick.>
> BLAINERB: Again you seem to be setting us up as unreal straw men, so
> you> can then adroitly knock us over. We choose to
have Jesus Christ as > our> ideal model, and seek in every way to
emulate him, and to live as > he> would live. Is this what
you mean by suggesting we have the > antiChrist> within? >
> Judy:> I'm not setting anything up Blaine; I am speaking of
spiritual > realities> and> you are talking about the
temporal. When Adam chose the fallen > wisdom > offered to
him in the garden he became one with it and separated > from>
God.> This is the inheritance we are all born with - every last one of us
> and> the> scripture teaches that the ONLY way back to God
is by receiving > Christ as> Lord and Savior being born again by
the Spirit of God wherein one > becomes> > part of a new
creation (2 Cor 5:17) and growing in grace until we > are>
once> more one with God's nature and character by being conformed to the
> image> of Christ. As I know you are aware the professing
Church has a way > to> go.> > As for emulating
Jesus, this is impossible because God will not > bless>
what> has already been cursed and our old Adamic nature is under a
> sentence of> death; this is why we must become part of the 2nd
Adam. Both are> described in the book of Romans.> >
udy> > > > > On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 05:53:44 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:>
> > > > > > > > From: Blaine R Borrowman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > >
> > > > > > Ruben wrote: Then we arrive at Salt
Lake city in the same > > fashion,> > > where we exhort
those that have perverted God, teaching that he > > > was
> > > once> > > like us.or we will be gods..HOW
PERVERTED. > > > > > > Blaine: I think this is
purely a judgement call on Ruben's > part. > > >
> > There are many good scriptures showing God allows us--wants
> us--> > > to be like him. Here is one of them--I will try
to find more > > > tomorrow if> > > needed:>
> > 1 John 3:2 "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth
> > > not yet appear what we shall be: But we know that, when
he > shall > > > appear,> > > > >
> we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is."> > >
> > > Judy: Hi Blaine,> > > Being LIKE HIM, and
actually being God are two different things. > > > He >
> > wants> > > us to be conformed to the 'image of Christ'
that is, his nature > > > and> > >
character,> > > but this does not make us God. There is a
difference - you are > > > > reading> > >
something into the text that shouldn't be there.> >
--> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt,
that you > may> know how you ought to answer every man."
(Colossians 4:6)> http://www.Inn
Re: [TruthTalk] I found it Blaine...but you lost it
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 02:23:44 -0500 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:> Blaine wrote:> > The Mormon missionaries are far from being like > > you street preachers. They wear suits, > > Some street preachers do that, just not Ruben. He is always in > shorts. **BlainerB And a T shirt with a big slogan on it. (:>) > Sometimes I wear a suit and tie, but not always. > > Blaine wrote:> > look clean and neat, > > Yeah, some street preachers do that too... *BlaineRB: Dignity should be a part of anyone who thinks to represent the Lord--I think he was a man of great dignity and presence. > > Blaine wrote:> > travel in pairs (the testimony of two witnesses > > is biblical), > > Well, Ruben usually has an entourage of about 24 men with him these> days, but when he splits them up for the work, he makes sure they > are at> least in pairs. :-)> > Blaine wrote:> > are called by those in authority, > > Yup... this would be true of virtually all street preachers. Bl;BlaineRB: Having discussed this before, I know what you are thinking (:>) But LDS concept of authority is different. For instance, I can trace my own line of authority as a holder of the Melchizedek Priesthood back to the Saviour himself--through Joseph Smith, who received it of Peter, James and John, who received it from the Saviour. All Mormon missionaries can do the same. Can any street preachers do that? > > Blaine wrote:> > only teach those whose permission they have obtained, > > Ooops... no, street preachers sometime obey God rather than man. **BlaineRB: In the teaching profession, they have a concept known as "Imposition." It is not just a concept but is considered a legitimate technique for getting information, concepts or whatever the goals of the teacher may be, across to students. It assumes that since the law says the students must be in school, it is OK to impose upon them in teaching them --it also assumes that the goals of the teacher are of higher priority than any goals the students might have. This is a basic concept in all schools that I know of, and in my opinion, is also the basis for spawning a lot of rebellious attitudes in students. I am to this day a little undecided if it is really a moral thing to do--I have used it a great deal in teaching, so if it is immoral, I am guilty. I suppose the law of the land, which requires students to be in school, and therefore also subjects them to being unwilling (or willing) recipients of the lessons being imposed upon them, is the final justification for using this technique. Students become essentially a "captured audience" as a result, however. Except under conditions as described above, I feel imposition has no place in teaching/preaching the gospel. If people attend church of their own free will and choice, whatever they get is what they get, and they should have no complaints. But when they go walking down the street, and have bullhorns blaring, whistles, or whatever, it seems this is crossing the line into imposition. They do not usually go out walking expecting or wanting to encounter this. This has been especially a problem with regards to the street preachers who descend on the Plaza in SLCity. Many people, Mormons and non-Mormons, complain, but so far the street preachers have vowed to continue. This seems to be imposition of the worst kind, to me, what do you think? BYTHEWAY, Mormon missionaries are REQUIRED to get permission/cooperation with any person they teach. If some do not, they are doing so as a result of their own zealousness. I know of no instances of them not doing so, however. Some may be a little too pushy in trying to get permission or cooperation, but that is a different question, I think. The key difference, however, is if you say "NO" loud and clear, they will back off. Street preachers do not back off. They just get more stubborn and insistent. Even a used car salesman has nothing on them. > > Blaine wrote:> > do not yell, scream > > Got us there. Street preachers sometimes yell, scream, blow > whistles,> use truth horns, etc. **BlaineRB: (:>) True.> > Blaine wrote:> > or otherwise show disrespect for others or > > their religions--> > Right again. Street preachers generally speaking will respect > others,> but they rarely ever respect the religion of others. **BlaineRB: I can't help but think this would alienate more than it will attract. Maybe they need to reevaluate their tactics? Maybe SHOWING respect might get them more open doors. I think you have hit on an interesting idea here--actually, I do sometimes wonder if I truly respect the religions of others--I think I do to the extent that they teach many truthful concepts. Its just that I feel they too often mix errors with the truth, and I see this as one of Satan's best techniques. Just one thing--you can command attention and respect, but you can't demand it--and I fe
Re: [TruthTalk] Will we be gods?
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 02:30:36 -0500 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Blaine wrote: > > I THINK we agree here, but MAYBE NOT No authoritative Mormon > > ever taught THAT we intend to be equal with God, or the > > trinity, or whatever you choose to call it. We believe that > > Jesus Christ as the SON is subordinate to the FATHER, and > > that we are and always will be subordinate to Both. Things > > earthly are like things heavenly--sons are subordinate to > > their fathers on earth, and we are the sons of God, so to > > speak, as we look to Him and his perfect model Son as our > > ideal models. We believe we will be Gods in the sense that > > we will have access to all power that is God's, to continue > > in eternity--as the parable of the prodigal son suggests, > > the faithful son was given access to all that his father > > possessed. ACCESS is the key word, here--no LDS authority > > ever taught that we would USURP God, as Satan wanted to do. > > Again, you are setting up little straw men to knock over. > > This is the lie MANY antiMormons perpetrate. Talk about > > lies!! > > Blaine, this is very interesting what you write here. I would be > interested to see what quotes Kevin comes up with. I think some of > the > Mormon writings, especially around Brigham Young's era, might not > express it quite like you do, but maybe I'm wrong. > > What you have shared here is pretty much what I believe too. This > reminds me of how Jeff (another Mormon related to DaveH) was against > the > Trinity because he thought it meant one person in the Godhead. When > I > explained to him what the Trinity doctrine really was, with three > persons and not one, he said that this was what he believed. > > It seems to me that Mormonism has moved closer and closer to > traditional > orthodox views. **BlaineRB: The concept of three persons as one God (head) in Mormonism came from Joseph Smith's first vision, wherein he reported seeing two persons, separate but identical in appearance. One spoke, introducing the second as his Beloved Son. In one account the one introduced as The Son appeared a few seconds after the appearance of the first one, then both stood together, and it was the Son who did the extensive speaking to Joseph Smith. Meanwhile, JS said he was surrounded by a brilliancy of light, which made him think that when it contacted the leaves of the surrounding trees, they might immediately take fire--he was apparently surprised when they did not burn. He said the effect of the light was to produce a feeling of profound peacefulness and joy withing him--this might be compared to the effect the Holy Ghost has upon us. What you have expressed above seems very > compatible > with the doctrine of the Trinity. What part of the doctrine of the > Trinity do you think you would have to disagree with? Technically, > you > seem to disagree with the Trinity, but above you don't say anything > that > would really contradict the Trinity. So exactly what is the beef > FROM > YOUR VIEWPOINT. I know how many on TruthTalk would answer this, but > how > would YOU answer this? **BlaineRB: I am never sure what people mean when they talk about the Trinity. I suppose as Jeff might have indicated, I always thought it meant three expressions of the same person, and that it was a doctrine peculiar to Protestant religions, based upon some council held during the reformation. (:>)I think that is what I have understood, at least. But if it means three separate persons, I would agree with that. > Peace be with you. > David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. > > -- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you > may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) > http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you > have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. > > -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Dean & Ruben
DAVEH: Thank you for the background, Perry. At first I thought you were responding to something DavidM said. So..if I am reading you right, you have not toured the Temple grounds or visitor center Did your mother-in-law do so? And if she did, did she offer any specific comments? Charles Perry Locke wrote: David, I have done all that you mentioned, including visiting the ancestral library. I was attending a trade show and conference at the Salt Palace and invited my LDS mother-in-law to share the room with me. While I "conferenced", she "genealogied". In fact, I thought it was quite unholy, an evangelical Chrstian, while walking towards Tempe Square, was approached by two Jahovah's Witnesses. Is nothing sacred? (VBG) We also had dinner on the top floor of the building next to the temple and overlooking it, as was my mother-in-law's desire. I also took time off one of the days to ride the bus out to the Utah Lighthouse Mission. It is a Christian mission to Mormons run by two former LDS members, Gerald and Sandra Tanner. Mrs. Tanner claims to be an 8th great-grandchild of Brigham Young, and I thought to myself, why is that so special? Half of the women in the state can make that claim! The more I have studied Mormonism, the more deeply I have become convinced of it's heretical nature, and the deceptions of JS, the heriatage of the "Temple" ceremonies, Masonry.( BTW, I come from a family steeped in Masonic tradition...my father, both grandfathers, and two uncles were, and are, Masons. My mother was in the Eastern Star at one time many years ago, and my grandmother, after my grandfather's passing, lived in the Masonic Orphans and Widows home for while. Despite the heavy tradition, I have never been tempted to become a Mason, or have anything to do with it.) Perry >From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: TruthTalk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: [TruthTalk] Dean & Ruben >Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 09:27:29 -0800 > >DAVEH: I am curious as to whether either of you two (Dean and/or Ruben) >have walked through Temple Square as a normal visitor rather than a >protester? Have either of you been inside and toured the visitors >center or heard the Tabernacle Choir or walked the grounds? -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
Re: [TruthTalk] Just the BIBLE Dave
DAVEH: HmmmBlaine, it seems you may have hit a raw nerve here! Kevin Deegan wrote: Liars Decievers SeducersThat is part of the SEDUCERAlways give the appearance of piousnessAll Phony men of God put on the Dog & Pony show for the Sheeples.Ever watch the Pope? Why does he always walk around with his hands clasped as in prayer? Why all the dresses that they wear? The smoke & incense? The LARGE cathedrals? The candles & beautiful artwork, windows?A good example is the announcer at the Hill Cumorah pag. He has this sicky pleasing voice. I wish I had audio, I can mimic it to a tee to give you an idea. He can conjure up FEELINGS thru his voice. eg. Ever hear someone refer to a "WARM" voice?Attendees are later told if they had a feeling that was the Spirit. They should go to the kiosk. As in SEDUCING SPIRITS! TALK is CHEAP!There are lots of people put on a good TALK but few that have a good WALK.God is interested in your Heart service NOT your lip service! The bible says to love not just in Word but in deed! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Dean, Hey is this really what you mean? Not to be antagonistic, but this sounds like YOU have a devil in YOU. Dave is always so calm, and collected, and REASOBABLE, above all!! I get the feeling you are frustrated because . . . ? BlainerB On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 07:45:14 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>writes: > > > DAVEH: OK, Dean..if not my remarks, what does make you so angry > (sounding)? > > Dean writes 12/17 > In all honesty DaveH-When I see the brethren interacting with you as > one of their own-without any caution for the spirit that drives > you-this angers me. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
Re: [TruthTalk] I found it Blaine...but you lost it
DAVEH: My latest comments are in RED. Kevin Deegan wrote: How about your comments on the UN Chriastian behavior of the LDS HIGH PRIEST? How about comments on why LDS Security Attacks individuals handing out only printed, literature on a PUBLIC sidewalk? Why is your church one of the only churches with bouncers? What is so UN Christian about standing on a PUBLIC sidewalk and Holding a pair of Magic Undies in the air? Why does your church owned TV station set up a fix to paint the street preachers as "breaking up wedding parties" "calling brides whores"?1) Take a picture of preachers on sidewalk2) take a picture of bride & groom inside compound behind fence, protected by bouncers3) send out 1 lady holding a PROP (veil - no bride No Bridegroom No wedding party take pictures)Hocus Pocus we have a STORY!What MAN would allow us to call his brand new wife a whore?These stories & others go around the world.I have had my image on KSL more than any other man except for Mayor Rocky in SLC!Sorry but the fact is, LDS are Liars, Decievers, Seducers! Please no blubering about taunting and all that hot air. Just answers. DAVEH: I don't feel compelled to answer your ranting, Kevin. I suspect those reading them can judge for themselves as to whether your conduct and/or thinking is either Christian or unChristian. I do wonder though if they appreciate you (or the SLC protesters) representing them as Christians. Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Kevin Deegan wrote: What exactly is so BAD about a PUBLIC display of Temple attire? DAVEH: I think Judy has given you some good reasons, so I don't feel a need to repeat them. However Kevin, what I will repeat is something I've mentioned to Ruben and Dean previously. Have any of the protesters or other Christians who condone such behavior given any thought to the image such displays of unChristian behavior projects to the outside world? Do the protesters want non Christians to think this is normal behavior in the Christian community? Why also is the LDS HIGH PRIEST who asualted one of the "preachers", called a HEROby the LDS?I call that a THUG!My pastor would not asault someone for holding underwear?Is this how yor HIGH PRIESTS behave? Why the BIG Play on the emotions of others to try and pressure us to stop?When that failed why the pressure thru city hall to write City ordinances to silence our speech & put away our signs & consign us to a location up the street? We are getting through to LDS and the Church will do anything to silence us.This includes FALSE news stories in the Church owned papers & TV stations.Back room meetings with City government officials who are LDS.It also Includes, PHYSICAL ASUALT by LDS BOUNCERS (those security guards with cameras & the little ear pieces like secret service) intimidation, & death threats. What a wonderful community Salt Lake.I really like the FITHY language of the LDS priests at the priesthood meetings. I have to go to the drunk crowd at the Mardi Gras to get the same filthy language.Of all the other events even the UN Churched do not speak like that priesthood crowd.I even have tape of some Priest saying G D Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: David Miller wrote: > Generally speaking, however, I don't think street preachers go out of > their way to be disrespectful. There are always exceptions. DAVEH: Would you think the public display of the street preachers in SLC waving LDS underwear is one of those exceptions? -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
