Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
It all depends on your market and your expenses. Here, most customers will opt for a high speed at a high price but there are some that wont even consider getting the service at any higher price other than 29 bucks. I really hate leaving money on the table so I try to accommodate that. For me a fast dime beats a slow buck any day. If I'm sitting and not making money, I go crazy so if I have 3 people wanting 29 dollar service and one guy wanting 49 dollar service I'll take 'em all. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 10:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I was expecting you to chime in Tom :) Thats exactly what I'm talking about and agree 100%. I cant figure out how $24.95 or even $29.95 works. But then, what number does? I realize when talking dollars that everyone's answer will vary because of a number of factors. But on a percentage basis, does 5% of gross revenue for a bottom line net profit work? We know it cant be 0%. I've seen companys try 0% or even less net profit to grab market share but sooner or later they've go to pay the piper. Ignoring that scenario, isnt profitability what really dictates your price? Its a balancing act for sure. If your income(price) is too low and expense(costs) are too high then you cant acheive the 5%-10% and please your wallet. On the contrary, you cant take too much profit or you wont be able to put it back into the business (upgrades, etc) and please the customers. So, I go back to what Jayson said: Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: $24.95/mo gets you 12Mbps/6Mbps. $49.95/mo gets you 20Mbps/6Mbps. We guarantee minimums--not just an up to speed. I want to know how he is doing it and if it is sustainable. If so, then I want to do it too. -RickG On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 4:28 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: There is only one way to make money at $24.95, and that is to stop answering the phone. Setup a fancy website for self help everything. And customer is on their own. I'm all for Self-help as an OPTION, but not as a forced requirement. We all know what I'm talking about all the things consumers complain about that are a repurcussion of $24.95 service. Phones answered by reception level skill sets. Billing disputes that are solved by disconnecting service on teh 2nd of the month, if the consumer didn't pay online regardless of whether there was a valid dispute. The customer down for a week, and nobody at teh provider really knew, and if they did and were called on it, they point to the clause in the Terms and conditions that says 30days. The type of installs, where the Dish gets installed right over the front door, because the installer was to lazy to get his ladder of the truck, and the 1hr allowed for install didn;t allow a more resourceful method to obtain a cosmetic appealing way to get LOS. The self-install that generates 50% packet loss, and degrades the network performance for all, but so what, its a Best Effort, right? Personally, I'll never do business that way. The day I have to be a $24.95 provider, I'll do something else. Some people may think otherwise, and are better at that game than I. Please note... I'm referring to provisioned Fixed Service meant to compete against DSL/cable quality. I'm not talking about HotSpot type Wifi, that can be done profitably at $15/month, because there are different expectations. I just keep thinking of the recent Giant Foods experiment. One of our local stores became the test bed for self check out registers. Instead of having 10 lanes with a person and 2 self check lines, this store actually converted like 10 lanes to self-checkout and 2 with a person. Its a night mare. Soemtimes for fun, I just watch the people going through the self-check and how frustrated they get. Self bagging was OK, but struggling to find the label, and getting that darn beeper to recognize the bar codes, and trying to watch a 3 year old or three at the same time as jumping back and forth between the middle of the line where the scanner is and the back of the lane where the grocery cart unscanned groceries sit and the front of the line where the finished scanned groceries are put, What a night mare. All it did was create these huge lines at the two lanes that actually had a person there. 50% of the stores customers ether started shopping at a different Giant that still employed people, or started going to Safeway accross the street. Its the best example that I've ever seen that has proven people want ease, peice of mind, and service. Or... maybe even the friendly relationship to speak to a person, after being cooped up in the house all day. People dont want to troubleshoot their Internet service anymore than they want to go to the self-checkout lane with a full cart of groceries. And when they want some
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Everyone gets a piece to be sure, but if you want to watch ABC or NBC or CBS or FOX or HULU or any of the services out there, that 2 meg is the video stream + a small overhead. If your throughput falls just a little, then the video guys are buffering... and cranky. I could never watch any of them on DSL, because it buffered endlessly, the latency was too high and throughput just too low at 1.5 max. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 12:07 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Are those MT AP's? Does RouterOS keep the bandwidth usage fair (everyone gets a piece)? Greg On Mar 25, 2010, at 2:34 PM, MDK wrote: Well, define big plan. In a P2P situation, an 11a access point can move about 10 to 12mbit to the clients - assuming quite a few clients (at least 20) and not over 8 miles. My 2mbit customers... I can have 4-5 of them run pretty steady and things are ok - not great, but ok. Once we pass that 4 running full speed at 2m, everyone starts losing a little and if you've got 6 or more trying, everyone's latency starts upwards pretty good. If you see 10 clients out of 30 active, and if 4 are sustaining full 2m, then the AP is maxed, completely. There's just no more bit delivery available.New demands come at the cost of reductions to other delivery speeds. In a microcell, you could count on 3 6mbit customers getting good speeds, but after that, the shortages simply divide up equally. Have someone throw in full bore bittorent, and it drops even further, since it misuses the airtime quite badly, and runs a lot of upstream data. Also, each client added to the AP - whether its busy or not, adds overhead, and the throughput diminishes a little.My busiest is 37 clients, and we're working on transferring some off of it, as it's overloaded and some are having issues with watching video, etc. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 9:48 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I don't see hwy AirMax, N-Streme, or whatever Star's equivalent of those two couldn't maintain 30 customers with big plans (not all using it at once, however). - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 10:20 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I'm thinking Ubiquiti Airmax can but I could be wrong? On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 8:31 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: Yes, they can, but only a few clients per access point. You cannot do it with 30 clients on an 11A ap. You can if only 2-4 clients are ever busy at the same time. But I'm seeing sustained 2mbit transfers for HOURS to around 20% of my clients. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:39 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Mikrotik, StarOS, or UBNT could all deliver those speeds. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL If so, with what equipment? On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com wrote: Are you delivering that wireless? mc On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: That's what we did. $24.95/mo gets you 12Mbps/6Mbps. $49.95/mo gets you 20Mbps/6Mbps. We guarantee minimums--not just an up to speed. A lot of people really like that too. Our packages: www.peakinter.net On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:14 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: One of the things you have to keep in mind, is that you really do have to offer your customers a decent value for their dollars.35 Bux for a fraction of a meg is darn steep pricing these days. We offer a 300K for 25 and 2 meg for 38.50, which is reasonably competitive. You don't' need to be the cheapest to be competitive, but you can't be way outside of normal pricing
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Docsis 3.0 is available here and while the do have higher download speeds, the upload has not improved and stays at a little over 2 mb. That is where we compete with higher upload and more reliable service. Also if you have a problem we are on the way. Comcast may be tomorrow or the next day. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 24, 2010, at 11:41 PM, Glenn Kelley gl...@hostmedic.com wrote: Time Warner is a nightmare for a number of reasons... They are still running docsis 2 for goodness sake. While Docsis 2 was a great step forward over 1 - running @ 6.4MHz - allowing for some pretty interesting speeds... Docsis 3 is a huge step forward however - and would be a great deal for Time Warner to put into place... In short - Docsis 2 only allows support for 1 channel - thus a throughput of 30.72Mbit/s - where as Docsis 3 allows for multiple channels - and thus allows for each channel to push roughly 38mbps - so - # of channels x 30Mbit/s is absolutely awesome Not sure why they are not pushing this - ... In short - with 4 downstream and 4 upstream channels - Docsis 3 gives 122.88 Mbit/s with 8 channels down and 4 upstream - Docsis 3 gives 343Mbit/s down and 122.88 up Now if Comcast can do it - why cant Time Warner? On Mar 24, 2010, at 11:29 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Interesting that Time Warner bursts the residential accounts, their Turbo service started out pretty consistent about 6 months ago with always being 20+mbps. Now its flakey at best. One minute you run a speed test and its 22mbps, next test its 7mbps, all over the board now. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL They must. Not just wireless either. My Time Warner Tech says they burst all residential accounts. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:20 PM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I think most of the WISPS that offer 6+ mbps services are bursting for like the first 30 seconds, then they fall back to something like 1.5mbps. I asked myself the same question until I started to think about it, they are bursting, I'm sure of it... Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 8:31 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Yes, they can, but only a few clients per access point. You cannot do it with 30 clients on an 11A ap. You can if only 2-4 clients are ever busy at the same time. But I'm seeing sustained 2mbit transfers for HOURS to around 20% of my clients. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:39 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Mikrotik, StarOS, or UBNT could all deliver those speeds. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL If so, with what equipment? On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com wrote: Are you delivering that wireless? mc On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: That's what we did. $24.95/mo gets you 12Mbps/6Mbps. $49.95/ mo gets you 20Mbps/6Mbps. We guarantee minimums--not just an up to speed. A lot of people really like that too. Our packages: www.peakinter.net On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:14 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: One of the things you have to keep in mind, is that you really do have to offer your customers a decent value for their dollars.35 Bux for a fraction of a meg is darn steep pricing these days. We offer a 300K for 25 and 2 meg for 38.50, which is reasonably competitive. You don't' need to be the cheapest to be competitive, but you can't be way outside of normal pricing. I'm thinking of throwing up some MIMO gear and offering something like a 7 meg service.Was thinking of making it about 75 / mo. Not the cheapest. Not the most expensive, either. What would 7 meg be in your area? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Some of the modems can be flashed and work with 3.0. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 25, 2010, at 12:18 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: Does it have reverse compatibility with the old modems and cabling? If it's a software upgrade they'd be dumb not to. If it's a lot of hardware the cost may not justify the update. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 1:07 AM, Glenn Kelley gl...@hostmedic.com wrote: well - i think they dont for a few reasons... But the point is - they can. for most systems it is a pretty simple update... I am not saying simply sell it at the same price mind you... but ... if they can charge $200 vs $50 - thats a heck of a revenue increase... love the Churchill statement btw :-) On Mar 25, 2010, at 12:45 AM, Josh Luthman wrote: Why do it...? If TWC has customers why upgrade them and give them better speeds? I doubt a significant number of people are switching from TWC to another provider for higher speeds. Why aren't you replacing every one of your 5.7 APs with the pmp430? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 12:41 AM, Glenn Kelley gl...@hostmedic.com wrote: Time Warner is a nightmare for a number of reasons... They are still running docsis 2 for goodness sake. While Docsis 2 was a great step forward over 1 - running @ 6.4MHz - allowing for some pretty interesting speeds... Docsis 3 is a huge step forward however - and would be a great deal for Time Warner to put into place... In short - Docsis 2 only allows support for 1 channel - thus a throughput of 30.72Mbit/s - where as Docsis 3 allows for multiple channels - and thus allows for each channel to push roughly 38mbps - so - # of channels x 30Mbit/s is absolutely awesome Not sure why they are not pushing this - ... In short - with 4 downstream and 4 upstream channels - Docsis 3 gives 122.88 Mbit/s with 8 channels down and 4 upstream - Docsis 3 gives 343Mbit/s down and 122.88 up Now if Comcast can do it - why cant Time Warner? On Mar 24, 2010, at 11:29 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Interesting that Time Warner bursts the residential accounts, their Turbo service started out pretty consistent about 6 months ago with always being 20+mbps. Now its flakey at best. One minute you run a speed test and its 22mbps, next test its 7mbps, all over the board now. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL They must. Not just wireless either. My Time Warner Tech says they burst all residential accounts. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:20 PM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I think most of the WISPS that offer 6+ mbps services are bursting for like the first 30 seconds, then they fall back to something like 1.5mbps. I asked myself the same question until I started to think about it, they are bursting, I'm sure of it... Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 8:31 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Yes, they can, but only a few clients per access point. You cannot do it with 30 clients on an 11A ap. You can if only 2-4 clients are ever busy at the same time. But I'm seeing sustained 2mbit transfers for HOURS to around 20% of my clients. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:39 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Mikrotik, StarOS, or UBNT could all deliver those speeds. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL If so, with what equipment? On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com wrote: Are you delivering
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Like Road Runners Turbo Boost. They make it out to be a big deal. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:20 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I think most of the WISPS that offer 6+ mbps services are bursting for like the first 30 seconds, then they fall back to something like 1.5mbps. I asked myself the same question until I started to think about it, they are bursting, I'm sure of it... Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 8:31 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Yes, they can, but only a few clients per access point. You cannot do it with 30 clients on an 11A ap. You can if only 2-4 clients are ever busy at the same time. But I'm seeing sustained 2mbit transfers for HOURS to around 20% of my clients. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:39 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Mikrotik, StarOS, or UBNT could all deliver those speeds. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL If so, with what equipment? On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com wrote: Are you delivering that wireless? mc On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: That's what we did. $24.95/mo gets you 12Mbps/6Mbps. $49.95/mo gets you 20Mbps/6Mbps. We guarantee minimums--not just an up to speed. A lot of people really like that too. Our packages: www.peakinter.net On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:14 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: One of the things you have to keep in mind, is that you really do have to offer your customers a decent value for their dollars.35 Bux for a fraction of a meg is darn steep pricing these days. We offer a 300K for 25 and 2 meg for 38.50, which is reasonably competitive. You don't' need to be the cheapest to be competitive, but you can't be way outside of normal pricing. I'm thinking of throwing up some MIMO gear and offering something like a 7 meg service.Was thinking of making it about 75 / mo.Not the cheapest. Not the most expensive, either. What would 7 meg be in your area? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 8:05 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person said as long as you have it they will not raise the rate from $15. Think its for 768k service. Anyways we are getting about 1 person a day switching from our $35/month/768k wireless service to this DSL. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to retain these customers They are not even giving us a chance to offer them a lower price as they all already have the DSL turned on and been using it for a month before they cancel ours. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
I've noticed Time Warner having speed issues as well. It must be system wide. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:29 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Interesting that Time Warner bursts the residential accounts, their Turbo service started out pretty consistent about 6 months ago with always being 20+mbps. Now its flakey at best. One minute you run a speed test and its 22mbps, next test its 7mbps, all over the board now. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL They must. Not just wireless either. My Time Warner Tech says they burst all residential accounts. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:20 PM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I think most of the WISPS that offer 6+ mbps services are bursting for like the first 30 seconds, then they fall back to something like 1.5mbps. I asked myself the same question until I started to think about it, they are bursting, I'm sure of it... Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 8:31 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Yes, they can, but only a few clients per access point. You cannot do it with 30 clients on an 11A ap. You can if only 2-4 clients are ever busy at the same time. But I'm seeing sustained 2mbit transfers for HOURS to around 20% of my clients. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:39 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Mikrotik, StarOS, or UBNT could all deliver those speeds. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL If so, with what equipment? On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com wrote: Are you delivering that wireless? mc On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: That's what we did. $24.95/mo gets you 12Mbps/6Mbps. $49.95/mo gets you 20Mbps/6Mbps. We guarantee minimums--not just an up to speed. A lot of people really like that too. Our packages: www.peakinter.net On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:14 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: One of the things you have to keep in mind, is that you really do have to offer your customers a decent value for their dollars. 35 Bux for a fraction of a meg is darn steep pricing these days. We offer a 300K for 25 and 2 meg for 38.50, which is reasonably competitive. You don't' need to be the cheapest to be competitive, but you can't be way outside of normal pricing. I'm thinking of throwing up some MIMO gear and offering something like a 7 meg service. Was thinking of making it about 75 / mo. Not the cheapest. Not the most expensive, either. What would 7 meg be in your area? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 8:05 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person said as long as you have it they will not raise the rate from $15. Think its for 768k service. Anyways we are getting about 1 person a day switching from our $35/month/768k wireless service to this DSL. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to retain these customers They are not even giving us a chance to offer them a lower price as they all already have the DSL turned on and been using it for a month before they cancel ours. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
And, interestingly enough, the digital cable boxes that they have been deploying lately have an integrated Docsis 3 modem. Inactive of course. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Glenn Kelley Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 12:41 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Time Warner is a nightmare for a number of reasons... They are still running docsis 2 for goodness sake. While Docsis 2 was a great step forward over 1 - running @ 6.4MHz - allowing for some pretty interesting speeds... Docsis 3 is a huge step forward however - and would be a great deal for Time Warner to put into place... In short - Docsis 2 only allows support for 1 channel - thus a throughput of 30.72Mbit/s - where as Docsis 3 allows for multiple channels - and thus allows for each channel to push roughly 38mbps - so - # of channels x 30Mbit/s is absolutely awesome Not sure why they are not pushing this - ... In short - with 4 downstream and 4 upstream channels - Docsis 3 gives 122.88 Mbit/s with 8 channels down and 4 upstream - Docsis 3 gives 343Mbit/s down and 122.88 up Now if Comcast can do it - why cant Time Warner? On Mar 24, 2010, at 11:29 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Interesting that Time Warner bursts the residential accounts, their Turbo service started out pretty consistent about 6 months ago with always being 20+mbps. Now its flakey at best. One minute you run a speed test and its 22mbps, next test its 7mbps, all over the board now. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL They must. Not just wireless either. My Time Warner Tech says they burst all residential accounts. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:20 PM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I think most of the WISPS that offer 6+ mbps services are bursting for like the first 30 seconds, then they fall back to something like 1.5mbps. I asked myself the same question until I started to think about it, they are bursting, I'm sure of it... Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 8:31 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Yes, they can, but only a few clients per access point. You cannot do it with 30 clients on an 11A ap. You can if only 2-4 clients are ever busy at the same time. But I'm seeing sustained 2mbit transfers for HOURS to around 20% of my clients. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:39 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Mikrotik, StarOS, or UBNT could all deliver those speeds. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL If so, with what equipment? On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com wrote: Are you delivering that wireless? mc On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: That's what we did. $24.95/mo gets you 12Mbps/6Mbps. $49.95/ mo gets you 20Mbps/6Mbps. We guarantee minimums--not just an up to speed. A lot of people really like that too. Our packages: www.peakinter.net On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:14 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: One of the things you have to keep in mind, is that you really do have to offer your customers a decent value for their dollars.35 Bux for a fraction of a meg is darn steep pricing these days. We offer a 300K for 25 and 2 meg for 38.50, which is reasonably competitive. You don't' need to be the cheapest to be competitive, but you can't be way outside of normal pricing. I'm thinking of throwing up some MIMO gear and offering something like a 7 meg service.Was thinking of making it about 75 / mo. Not the cheapest. Not the most expensive, either. What would 7 meg be in your area? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Have you run through the numbers to see if the $15.00 is a sustainable model? It seems like that is below cost or their break-even is years out. If that is the case, they will run out of cash at some point or customers will get terrible service when problems come up because the DSL company can't afford to hire anyone. It will hurt you for now but if you look at the numbers and see it isn't sustainable, I wouldn't worry too much. Right now though, I would buckle down and run a campaign with all employees and any marketing mean you have to take care of customers! If you take care of your customers, it will be very tough for the competition to pick them up for a cheaper price. Or, it will at least delay the process long enough for the DSL provider to realize they can't sustain those prices... If you find out it is sustainable, then look at possibly upgrading your network or doing other revenue generating ideas that the DSL provider isn't. Upgrading the network is a long process and very costly though. I would make VERY sure that the DSL provider can keep that $15.00 forever before doing anything with infrastructure. -Jeff There is a difference -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 9:58 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL And, interestingly enough, the digital cable boxes that they have been deploying lately have an integrated Docsis 3 modem. Inactive of course. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Glenn Kelley Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 12:41 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Time Warner is a nightmare for a number of reasons... They are still running docsis 2 for goodness sake. While Docsis 2 was a great step forward over 1 - running @ 6.4MHz - allowing for some pretty interesting speeds... Docsis 3 is a huge step forward however - and would be a great deal for Time Warner to put into place... In short - Docsis 2 only allows support for 1 channel - thus a throughput of 30.72Mbit/s - where as Docsis 3 allows for multiple channels - and thus allows for each channel to push roughly 38mbps - so - # of channels x 30Mbit/s is absolutely awesome Not sure why they are not pushing this - ... In short - with 4 downstream and 4 upstream channels - Docsis 3 gives 122.88 Mbit/s with 8 channels down and 4 upstream - Docsis 3 gives 343Mbit/s down and 122.88 up Now if Comcast can do it - why cant Time Warner? On Mar 24, 2010, at 11:29 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Interesting that Time Warner bursts the residential accounts, their Turbo service started out pretty consistent about 6 months ago with always being 20+mbps. Now its flakey at best. One minute you run a speed test and its 22mbps, next test its 7mbps, all over the board now. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL They must. Not just wireless either. My Time Warner Tech says they burst all residential accounts. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:20 PM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I think most of the WISPS that offer 6+ mbps services are bursting for like the first 30 seconds, then they fall back to something like 1.5mbps. I asked myself the same question until I started to think about it, they are bursting, I'm sure of it... Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 8:31 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Yes, they can, but only a few clients per access point. You cannot do it with 30 clients on an 11A ap. You can if only 2-4 clients are ever busy at the same time. But I'm seeing sustained 2mbit transfers for HOURS to around 20% of my clients. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:39 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Mikrotik, StarOS, or UBNT could all deliver those speeds. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:19 PM To: WISPA General List
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Agreed, our monthly cost is about $16 per client. Including backhaul, staff, insurance, rent, etc. That does not even include tower upgrades and repairs. $29.99 is our cheapest service and I am moving anyone I can off of it due to the complaints that I get about speed. $39.99 is my basic service $39.99 1M/256k + $5 on-site maintenance (customer choice) and $2 for mail invoice (customer choice). Looking at VOIP as extra revenue source but have to get QOS implemented and figure out tax and filing rules. Steve Barnes RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Ehman Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 11:50 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Have you run through the numbers to see if the $15.00 is a sustainable model? It seems like that is below cost or their break-even is years out. If that is the case, they will run out of cash at some point or customers will get terrible service when problems come up because the DSL company can't afford to hire anyone. It will hurt you for now but if you look at the numbers and see it isn't sustainable, I wouldn't worry too much. Right now though, I would buckle down and run a campaign with all employees and any marketing mean you have to take care of customers! If you take care of your customers, it will be very tough for the competition to pick them up for a cheaper price. Or, it will at least delay the process long enough for the DSL provider to realize they can't sustain those prices... If you find out it is sustainable, then look at possibly upgrading your network or doing other revenue generating ideas that the DSL provider isn't. Upgrading the network is a long process and very costly though. I would make VERY sure that the DSL provider can keep that $15.00 forever before doing anything with infrastructure. -Jeff There is a difference -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 9:58 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL And, interestingly enough, the digital cable boxes that they have been deploying lately have an integrated Docsis 3 modem. Inactive of course. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Glenn Kelley Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 12:41 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Time Warner is a nightmare for a number of reasons... They are still running docsis 2 for goodness sake. While Docsis 2 was a great step forward over 1 - running @ 6.4MHz - allowing for some pretty interesting speeds... Docsis 3 is a huge step forward however - and would be a great deal for Time Warner to put into place... In short - Docsis 2 only allows support for 1 channel - thus a throughput of 30.72Mbit/s - where as Docsis 3 allows for multiple channels - and thus allows for each channel to push roughly 38mbps - so - # of channels x 30Mbit/s is absolutely awesome Not sure why they are not pushing this - ... In short - with 4 downstream and 4 upstream channels - Docsis 3 gives 122.88 Mbit/s with 8 channels down and 4 upstream - Docsis 3 gives 343Mbit/s down and 122.88 up Now if Comcast can do it - why cant Time Warner? On Mar 24, 2010, at 11:29 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Interesting that Time Warner bursts the residential accounts, their Turbo service started out pretty consistent about 6 months ago with always being 20+mbps. Now its flakey at best. One minute you run a speed test and its 22mbps, next test its 7mbps, all over the board now. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL They must. Not just wireless either. My Time Warner Tech says they burst all residential accounts. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:20 PM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I think most of the WISPS that offer 6+ mbps services are bursting for like the first 30 seconds, then they fall back to something like 1.5mbps. I asked myself the same question until I started to think about it, they are bursting, I'm sure of it... Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 8:31 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Yes, they can, but only a few clients per access point. You cannot do it with 30 clients on an 11A ap. You
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Thats right and my point. I dont see $15/month anywhere near sustainable for any company. My curiosity is, what number is? As I mentioned, for me $49.99/month is comfortable. Any lower and things get sacrificed. I run a tight ship and am frugal. On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 11:49 AM, Jeff Ehman jeh...@cticonnect.com wrote: Have you run through the numbers to see if the $15.00 is a sustainable model? It seems like that is below cost or their break-even is years out. If that is the case, they will run out of cash at some point or customers will get terrible service when problems come up because the DSL company can't afford to hire anyone. It will hurt you for now but if you look at the numbers and see it isn't sustainable, I wouldn't worry too much. Right now though, I would buckle down and run a campaign with all employees and any marketing mean you have to take care of customers! If you take care of your customers, it will be very tough for the competition to pick them up for a cheaper price. Or, it will at least delay the process long enough for the DSL provider to realize they can't sustain those prices... If you find out it is sustainable, then look at possibly upgrading your network or doing other revenue generating ideas that the DSL provider isn't. Upgrading the network is a long process and very costly though. I would make VERY sure that the DSL provider can keep that $15.00 forever before doing anything with infrastructure. -Jeff There is a difference -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 9:58 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL And, interestingly enough, the digital cable boxes that they have been deploying lately have an integrated Docsis 3 modem. Inactive of course. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Glenn Kelley Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 12:41 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Time Warner is a nightmare for a number of reasons... They are still running docsis 2 for goodness sake. While Docsis 2 was a great step forward over 1 - running @ 6.4MHz - allowing for some pretty interesting speeds... Docsis 3 is a huge step forward however - and would be a great deal for Time Warner to put into place... In short - Docsis 2 only allows support for 1 channel - thus a throughput of 30.72Mbit/s - where as Docsis 3 allows for multiple channels - and thus allows for each channel to push roughly 38mbps - so - # of channels x 30Mbit/s is absolutely awesome Not sure why they are not pushing this - ... In short - with 4 downstream and 4 upstream channels - Docsis 3 gives 122.88 Mbit/s with 8 channels down and 4 upstream - Docsis 3 gives 343Mbit/s down and 122.88 up Now if Comcast can do it - why cant Time Warner? On Mar 24, 2010, at 11:29 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Interesting that Time Warner bursts the residential accounts, their Turbo service started out pretty consistent about 6 months ago with always being 20+mbps. Now its flakey at best. One minute you run a speed test and its 22mbps, next test its 7mbps, all over the board now. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL They must. Not just wireless either. My Time Warner Tech says they burst all residential accounts. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:20 PM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I think most of the WISPS that offer 6+ mbps services are bursting for like the first 30 seconds, then they fall back to something like 1.5mbps. I asked myself the same question until I started to think about it, they are bursting, I'm sure of it... Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 8:31 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Yes, they can, but only a few clients per access point. You cannot do it with 30 clients on an 11A ap. You can if only 2-4 clients are ever busy at the same time. But I'm seeing sustained 2mbit transfers for HOURS to around 20% of my clients. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:39 AM To: WISPA
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
And keep in mind, if your business is smaller there is a lot less overhead so a larger one will need to raise that minimum comfortable level. The one thing you need to look at though, is if they received funding to build-out DSL somehow. There are a lot of government funded grants out there. -Jeff There is a difference -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 12:03 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Thats right and my point. I dont see $15/month anywhere near sustainable for any company. My curiosity is, what number is? As I mentioned, for me $49.99/month is comfortable. Any lower and things get sacrificed. I run a tight ship and am frugal. On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 11:49 AM, Jeff Ehman jeh...@cticonnect.com wrote: Have you run through the numbers to see if the $15.00 is a sustainable model? It seems like that is below cost or their break-even is years out. If that is the case, they will run out of cash at some point or customers will get terrible service when problems come up because the DSL company can't afford to hire anyone. It will hurt you for now but if you look at the numbers and see it isn't sustainable, I wouldn't worry too much. Right now though, I would buckle down and run a campaign with all employees and any marketing mean you have to take care of customers! If you take care of your customers, it will be very tough for the competition to pick them up for a cheaper price. Or, it will at least delay the process long enough for the DSL provider to realize they can't sustain those prices... If you find out it is sustainable, then look at possibly upgrading your network or doing other revenue generating ideas that the DSL provider isn't. Upgrading the network is a long process and very costly though. I would make VERY sure that the DSL provider can keep that $15.00 forever before doing anything with infrastructure. -Jeff There is a difference -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 9:58 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL And, interestingly enough, the digital cable boxes that they have been deploying lately have an integrated Docsis 3 modem. Inactive of course. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Glenn Kelley Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 12:41 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Time Warner is a nightmare for a number of reasons... They are still running docsis 2 for goodness sake. While Docsis 2 was a great step forward over 1 - running @ 6.4MHz - allowing for some pretty interesting speeds... Docsis 3 is a huge step forward however - and would be a great deal for Time Warner to put into place... In short - Docsis 2 only allows support for 1 channel - thus a throughput of 30.72Mbit/s - where as Docsis 3 allows for multiple channels - and thus allows for each channel to push roughly 38mbps - so - # of channels x 30Mbit/s is absolutely awesome Not sure why they are not pushing this - ... In short - with 4 downstream and 4 upstream channels - Docsis 3 gives 122.88 Mbit/s with 8 channels down and 4 upstream - Docsis 3 gives 343Mbit/s down and 122.88 up Now if Comcast can do it - why cant Time Warner? On Mar 24, 2010, at 11:29 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Interesting that Time Warner bursts the residential accounts, their Turbo service started out pretty consistent about 6 months ago with always being 20+mbps. Now its flakey at best. One minute you run a speed test and its 22mbps, next test its 7mbps, all over the board now. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL They must. Not just wireless either. My Time Warner Tech says they burst all residential accounts. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:20 PM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I think most of the WISPS that offer 6+ mbps services are bursting for like the first 30 seconds, then they fall back to something like 1.5mbps. I asked myself the same question until I started to think about it, they are bursting, I'm sure of it... Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 8:31 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Well, define big plan. In a P2P situation, an 11a access point can move about 10 to 12mbit to the clients - assuming quite a few clients (at least 20) and not over 8 miles. My 2mbit customers... I can have 4-5 of them run pretty steady and things are ok - not great, but ok. Once we pass that 4 running full speed at 2m, everyone starts losing a little and if you've got 6 or more trying, everyone's latency starts upwards pretty good. If you see 10 clients out of 30 active, and if 4 are sustaining full 2m, then the AP is maxed, completely. There's just no more bit delivery available.New demands come at the cost of reductions to other delivery speeds. In a microcell, you could count on 3 6mbit customers getting good speeds, but after that, the shortages simply divide up equally. Have someone throw in full bore bittorent, and it drops even further, since it misuses the airtime quite badly, and runs a lot of upstream data. Also, each client added to the AP - whether its busy or not, adds overhead, and the throughput diminishes a little.My busiest is 37 clients, and we're working on transferring some off of it, as it's overloaded and some are having issues with watching video, etc. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 9:48 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I don't see hwy AirMax, N-Streme, or whatever Star's equivalent of those two couldn't maintain 30 customers with big plans (not all using it at once, however). - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 10:20 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I'm thinking Ubiquiti Airmax can but I could be wrong? On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 8:31 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: Yes, they can, but only a few clients per access point. You cannot do it with 30 clients on an 11A ap. You can if only 2-4 clients are ever busy at the same time. But I'm seeing sustained 2mbit transfers for HOURS to around 20% of my clients. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:39 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Mikrotik, StarOS, or UBNT could all deliver those speeds. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL If so, with what equipment? On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com wrote: Are you delivering that wireless? mc On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: That's what we did. $24.95/mo gets you 12Mbps/6Mbps. $49.95/mo gets you 20Mbps/6Mbps. We guarantee minimums--not just an up to speed. A lot of people really like that too. Our packages: www.peakinter.net On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:14 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: One of the things you have to keep in mind, is that you really do have to offer your customers a decent value for their dollars.35 Bux for a fraction of a meg is darn steep pricing these days. We offer a 300K for 25 and 2 meg for 38.50, which is reasonably competitive. You don't' need to be the cheapest to be competitive, but you can't be way outside of normal pricing. I'm thinking of throwing up some MIMO gear and offering something like a 7 meg service.Was thinking of making it about 75 / mo.Not the cheapest. Not the most expensive, either. What would 7 meg be in your area? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 8:05 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person said as long as you have it they will not raise the rate from $15. Think its for 768k service. Anyways we are getting about 1 person a day
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Even if their model is not sustainable, and they're going to run out of cash... If you run out before they do, the results are just as deadly. I can't compete with $15 DSL. Nobody can.Not even them.As you say, it's not sustainable, so look at where they really intend to compete, and at what rates. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Jeff Ehman jeh...@cticonnect.com Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 8:49 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Have you run through the numbers to see if the $15.00 is a sustainable model? It seems like that is below cost or their break-even is years out. If that is the case, they will run out of cash at some point or customers will get terrible service when problems come up because the DSL company can't afford to hire anyone. It will hurt you for now but if you look at the numbers and see it isn't sustainable, I wouldn't worry too much. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Are those MT AP's? Does RouterOS keep the bandwidth usage fair (everyone gets a piece)? Greg On Mar 25, 2010, at 2:34 PM, MDK wrote: Well, define big plan. In a P2P situation, an 11a access point can move about 10 to 12mbit to the clients - assuming quite a few clients (at least 20) and not over 8 miles. My 2mbit customers... I can have 4-5 of them run pretty steady and things are ok - not great, but ok. Once we pass that 4 running full speed at 2m, everyone starts losing a little and if you've got 6 or more trying, everyone's latency starts upwards pretty good. If you see 10 clients out of 30 active, and if 4 are sustaining full 2m, then the AP is maxed, completely. There's just no more bit delivery available.New demands come at the cost of reductions to other delivery speeds. In a microcell, you could count on 3 6mbit customers getting good speeds, but after that, the shortages simply divide up equally. Have someone throw in full bore bittorent, and it drops even further, since it misuses the airtime quite badly, and runs a lot of upstream data. Also, each client added to the AP - whether its busy or not, adds overhead, and the throughput diminishes a little.My busiest is 37 clients, and we're working on transferring some off of it, as it's overloaded and some are having issues with watching video, etc. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 9:48 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I don't see hwy AirMax, N-Streme, or whatever Star's equivalent of those two couldn't maintain 30 customers with big plans (not all using it at once, however). - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 10:20 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I'm thinking Ubiquiti Airmax can but I could be wrong? On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 8:31 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: Yes, they can, but only a few clients per access point. You cannot do it with 30 clients on an 11A ap. You can if only 2-4 clients are ever busy at the same time. But I'm seeing sustained 2mbit transfers for HOURS to around 20% of my clients. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:39 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Mikrotik, StarOS, or UBNT could all deliver those speeds. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL If so, with what equipment? On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com wrote: Are you delivering that wireless? mc On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: That's what we did. $24.95/mo gets you 12Mbps/6Mbps. $49.95/mo gets you 20Mbps/6Mbps. We guarantee minimums--not just an up to speed. A lot of people really like that too. Our packages: www.peakinter.net On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:14 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: One of the things you have to keep in mind, is that you really do have to offer your customers a decent value for their dollars.35 Bux for a fraction of a meg is darn steep pricing these days. We offer a 300K for 25 and 2 meg for 38.50, which is reasonably competitive. You don't' need to be the cheapest to be competitive, but you can't be way outside of normal pricing. I'm thinking of throwing up some MIMO gear and offering something like a 7 meg service.Was thinking of making it about 75 / mo.Not the cheapest. Not the most expensive, either. What would 7 meg be in your area? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 8:05 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
MT allows you to create queues that will make sure everyone gets a piece. Greg Ihnen wrote: Are those MT AP's? Does RouterOS keep the bandwidth usage fair (everyone gets a piece)? Greg On Mar 25, 2010, at 2:34 PM, MDK wrote: Well, define big plan. In a P2P situation, an 11a access point can move about 10 to 12mbit to the clients - assuming quite a few clients (at least 20) and not over 8 miles. My 2mbit customers... I can have 4-5 of them run pretty steady and things are ok - not great, but ok. Once we pass that 4 running full speed at 2m, everyone starts losing a little and if you've got 6 or more trying, everyone's latency starts upwards pretty good. If you see 10 clients out of 30 active, and if 4 are sustaining full 2m, then the AP is maxed, completely. There's just no more bit delivery available.New demands come at the cost of reductions to other delivery speeds. In a microcell, you could count on 3 6mbit customers getting good speeds, but after that, the shortages simply divide up equally. Have someone throw in full bore bittorent, and it drops even further, since it misuses the airtime quite badly, and runs a lot of upstream data. Also, each client added to the AP - whether its busy or not, adds overhead, and the throughput diminishes a little.My busiest is 37 clients, and we're working on transferring some off of it, as it's overloaded and some are having issues with watching video, etc. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 9:48 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I don't see hwy AirMax, N-Streme, or whatever Star's equivalent of those two couldn't maintain 30 customers with big plans (not all using it at once, however). - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 10:20 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I'm thinking Ubiquiti Airmax can but I could be wrong? On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 8:31 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: Yes, they can, but only a few clients per access point. You cannot do it with 30 clients on an 11A ap. You can if only 2-4 clients are ever busy at the same time. But I'm seeing sustained 2mbit transfers for HOURS to around 20% of my clients. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:39 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Mikrotik, StarOS, or UBNT could all deliver those speeds. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL If so, with what equipment? On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com wrote: Are you delivering that wireless? mc On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: That's what we did. $24.95/mo gets you 12Mbps/6Mbps. $49.95/mo gets you 20Mbps/6Mbps. We guarantee minimums--not just an up to speed. A lot of people really like that too. Our packages: www.peakinter.net On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:14 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: One of the things you have to keep in mind, is that you really do have to offer your customers a decent value for their dollars.35 Bux for a fraction of a meg is darn steep pricing these days. We offer a 300K for 25 and 2 meg for 38.50, which is reasonably competitive. You don't' need to be the cheapest to be competitive, but you can't be way outside of normal pricing. I'm thinking of throwing up some MIMO gear and offering something like a 7 meg service.Was thinking of making it about 75 / mo.Not the cheapest. Not the most expensive, either. What would 7 meg be in your area? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 8:05 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
That's why I wonder if MDK is talking about MT AP's. Greg On Mar 25, 2010, at 2:53 PM, Scott Reed wrote: MT allows you to create queues that will make sure everyone gets a piece. Greg Ihnen wrote: Are those MT AP's? Does RouterOS keep the bandwidth usage fair (everyone gets a piece)? Greg On Mar 25, 2010, at 2:34 PM, MDK wrote: Well, define big plan. In a P2P situation, an 11a access point can move about 10 to 12mbit to the clients - assuming quite a few clients (at least 20) and not over 8 miles. My 2mbit customers... I can have 4-5 of them run pretty steady and things are ok - not great, but ok. Once we pass that 4 running full speed at 2m, everyone starts losing a little and if you've got 6 or more trying, everyone's latency starts upwards pretty good. If you see 10 clients out of 30 active, and if 4 are sustaining full 2m, then the AP is maxed, completely. There's just no more bit delivery available.New demands come at the cost of reductions to other delivery speeds. In a microcell, you could count on 3 6mbit customers getting good speeds, but after that, the shortages simply divide up equally. Have someone throw in full bore bittorent, and it drops even further, since it misuses the airtime quite badly, and runs a lot of upstream data. Also, each client added to the AP - whether its busy or not, adds overhead, and the throughput diminishes a little.My busiest is 37 clients, and we're working on transferring some off of it, as it's overloaded and some are having issues with watching video, etc. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 9:48 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I don't see hwy AirMax, N-Streme, or whatever Star's equivalent of those two couldn't maintain 30 customers with big plans (not all using it at once, however). - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 10:20 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I'm thinking Ubiquiti Airmax can but I could be wrong? On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 8:31 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: Yes, they can, but only a few clients per access point. You cannot do it with 30 clients on an 11A ap. You can if only 2-4 clients are ever busy at the same time. But I'm seeing sustained 2mbit transfers for HOURS to around 20% of my clients. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:39 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Mikrotik, StarOS, or UBNT could all deliver those speeds. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL If so, with what equipment? On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com wrote: Are you delivering that wireless? mc On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: That's what we did. $24.95/mo gets you 12Mbps/6Mbps. $49.95/mo gets you 20Mbps/6Mbps. We guarantee minimums--not just an up to speed. A lot of people really like that too. Our packages: www.peakinter.net On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:14 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: One of the things you have to keep in mind, is that you really do have to offer your customers a decent value for their dollars.35 Bux for a fraction of a meg is darn steep pricing these days. We offer a 300K for 25 and 2 meg for 38.50, which is reasonably competitive. You don't' need to be the cheapest to be competitive, but you can't be way outside of normal pricing. I'm thinking of throwing up some MIMO gear and offering something like a 7 meg service.Was thinking of making it about 75 / mo.Not the cheapest. Not the most expensive, either. What would 7 meg be in your area? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 8:05
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Why aren't you replacing every one of your 5.7 APs with the pmp430? I bet a lot of Canopy users will start to self answer that question when they compare the 5750's C/I of 3db to pmp430's C/I of probably 20db. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 12:45 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Why do it...? If TWC has customers why upgrade them and give them better speeds? I doubt a significant number of people are switching from TWC to another provider for higher speeds. Why aren't you replacing every one of your 5.7 APs with the pmp430? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 12:41 AM, Glenn Kelley gl...@hostmedic.com wrote: Time Warner is a nightmare for a number of reasons... They are still running docsis 2 for goodness sake. While Docsis 2 was a great step forward over 1 - running @ 6.4MHz - allowing for some pretty interesting speeds... Docsis 3 is a huge step forward however - and would be a great deal for Time Warner to put into place... In short - Docsis 2 only allows support for 1 channel - thus a throughput of 30.72Mbit/s - where as Docsis 3 allows for multiple channels - and thus allows for each channel to push roughly 38mbps - so - # of channels x 30Mbit/s is absolutely awesome Not sure why they are not pushing this - ... In short - with 4 downstream and 4 upstream channels - Docsis 3 gives 122.88 Mbit/s with 8 channels down and 4 upstream - Docsis 3 gives 343Mbit/s down and 122.88 up Now if Comcast can do it - why cant Time Warner? On Mar 24, 2010, at 11:29 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Interesting that Time Warner bursts the residential accounts, their Turbo service started out pretty consistent about 6 months ago with always being 20+mbps. Now its flakey at best. One minute you run a speed test and its 22mbps, next test its 7mbps, all over the board now. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL They must. Not just wireless either. My Time Warner Tech says they burst all residential accounts. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:20 PM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I think most of the WISPS that offer 6+ mbps services are bursting for like the first 30 seconds, then they fall back to something like 1.5mbps. I asked myself the same question until I started to think about it, they are bursting, I'm sure of it... Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 8:31 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Yes, they can, but only a few clients per access point. You cannot do it with 30 clients on an 11A ap. You can if only 2-4 clients are ever busy at the same time. But I'm seeing sustained 2mbit transfers for HOURS to around 20% of my clients. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:39 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Mikrotik, StarOS, or UBNT could all deliver those speeds. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL If so, with what equipment? On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com wrote: Are you delivering that wireless? mc On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: That's what we did. $24.95/mo gets you 12Mbps/6Mbps. $49.95/ mo gets you 20Mbps/6Mbps. We guarantee minimums--not just an up to speed. A lot of people really like that too. Our packages: www.peakinter.net On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:14 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: One of the things you have to keep in mind, is that you really do have to offer your customers a decent value for their dollars. 35 Bux for a fraction of a meg is darn steep
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Yes, it is a race but whoever has the customers first has the upper-hand by a long-shot. I was commenting on keeping existing business not grabbing new business. New business will be tough to get besides word-of-mouth advertising. -Jeff There is a difference -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 2:09 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Even if their model is not sustainable, and they're going to run out of cash... If you run out before they do, the results are just as deadly. I can't compete with $15 DSL. Nobody can.Not even them.As you say, it's not sustainable, so look at where they really intend to compete, and at what rates. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Jeff Ehman jeh...@cticonnect.com Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 8:49 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Have you run through the numbers to see if the $15.00 is a sustainable model? It seems like that is below cost or their break-even is years out. If that is the case, they will run out of cash at some point or customers will get terrible service when problems come up because the DSL company can't afford to hire anyone. It will hurt you for now but if you look at the numbers and see it isn't sustainable, I wouldn't worry too much. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
There is only one way to make money at $24.95, and that is to stop answering the phone. Setup a fancy website for self help everything. And customer is on their own. I'm all for Self-help as an OPTION, but not as a forced requirement. We all know what I'm talking about all the things consumers complain about that are a repurcussion of $24.95 service. Phones answered by reception level skill sets. Billing disputes that are solved by disconnecting service on teh 2nd of the month, if the consumer didn't pay online regardless of whether there was a valid dispute. The customer down for a week, and nobody at teh provider really knew, and if they did and were called on it, they point to the clause in the Terms and conditions that says 30days. The type of installs, where the Dish gets installed right over the front door, because the installer was to lazy to get his ladder of the truck, and the 1hr allowed for install didn;t allow a more resourceful method to obtain a cosmetic appealing way to get LOS. The self-install that generates 50% packet loss, and degrades the network performance for all, but so what, its a Best Effort, right? Personally, I'll never do business that way. The day I have to be a $24.95 provider, I'll do something else. Some people may think otherwise, and are better at that game than I. Please note... I'm referring to provisioned Fixed Service meant to compete against DSL/cable quality. I'm not talking about HotSpot type Wifi, that can be done profitably at $15/month, because there are different expectations. I just keep thinking of the recent Giant Foods experiment. One of our local stores became the test bed for self check out registers. Instead of having 10 lanes with a person and 2 self check lines, this store actually converted like 10 lanes to self-checkout and 2 with a person. Its a night mare. Soemtimes for fun, I just watch the people going through the self-check and how frustrated they get. Self bagging was OK, but struggling to find the label, and getting that darn beeper to recognize the bar codes, and trying to watch a 3 year old or three at the same time as jumping back and forth between the middle of the line where the scanner is and the back of the lane where the grocery cart unscanned groceries sit and the front of the line where the finished scanned groceries are put, What a night mare. All it did was create these huge lines at the two lanes that actually had a person there. 50% of the stores customers ether started shopping at a different Giant that still employed people, or started going to Safeway accross the street. Its the best example that I've ever seen that has proven people want ease, peice of mind, and service. Or... maybe even the friendly relationship to speak to a person, after being cooped up in the house all day. People dont want to troubleshoot their Internet service anymore than they want to go to the self-checkout lane with a full cart of groceries. And when they want some help, they want one of those special help customer service desks like most Giant's have, they dont want to wait in line. Just my 2 cents. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Scott Reed scottr...@onlyinternet.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:38 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Your question has some of the answer in it. What do you want for ROI (return on investment) timing? The answer to that helps determine installation charge and how much you have to charge per month. RickG wrote: Sure but I'm more curious about the business model for making money at such low prices. UBNT is priced right and certainly helps but it would still be tough to make a profit at only $24.95/month. I havent seen one a financial discusion on the list in a very long time. I though market share models died a long time ago. Are people still out there losing money in the short term in order to make money on the long term? On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: Mikrotik, StarOS, or UBNT could all deliver those speeds. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL If so, with what equipment? On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com wrote: Are you delivering that wireless? mc On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: That's what we did. $24.95/mo gets you 12Mbps/6Mbps. $49.95/mo gets you 20Mbps/6Mbps. We guarantee minimums--not just an up to speed. A lot of people really like that too. Our packages: www.peakinter.net On Mon, Mar 15, 2010
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Recently this topic came up (maybe it was even this same thread near the start) that someone mentioned that the companies who are doing give-away priced internet were the companies which have are getting government subsides for the land lines and it's the subsidies which are their bread and butter. So for them it's not really $15.99 or $19.99 internet, that's just the customer's portion, their real number is higher. That market is poisoned by the subsidy. Someone with no subsidy can't make money there at the same price with the same service. Greg On Mar 25, 2010, at 3:58 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: There is only one way to make money at $24.95, and that is to stop answering the phone. Setup a fancy website for self help everything. And customer is on their own. I'm all for Self-help as an OPTION, but not as a forced requirement. We all know what I'm talking about all the things consumers complain about that are a repurcussion of $24.95 service. Phones answered by reception level skill sets. Billing disputes that are solved by disconnecting service on teh 2nd of the month, if the consumer didn't pay online regardless of whether there was a valid dispute. The customer down for a week, and nobody at teh provider really knew, and if they did and were called on it, they point to the clause in the Terms and conditions that says 30days. The type of installs, where the Dish gets installed right over the front door, because the installer was to lazy to get his ladder of the truck, and the 1hr allowed for install didn;t allow a more resourceful method to obtain a cosmetic appealing way to get LOS. The self-install that generates 50% packet loss, and degrades the network performance for all, but so what, its a Best Effort, right? Personally, I'll never do business that way. The day I have to be a $24.95 provider, I'll do something else. Some people may think otherwise, and are better at that game than I. Please note... I'm referring to provisioned Fixed Service meant to compete against DSL/cable quality. I'm not talking about HotSpot type Wifi, that can be done profitably at $15/month, because there are different expectations. I just keep thinking of the recent Giant Foods experiment. One of our local stores became the test bed for self check out registers. Instead of having 10 lanes with a person and 2 self check lines, this store actually converted like 10 lanes to self-checkout and 2 with a person. Its a night mare. Soemtimes for fun, I just watch the people going through the self-check and how frustrated they get. Self bagging was OK, but struggling to find the label, and getting that darn beeper to recognize the bar codes, and trying to watch a 3 year old or three at the same time as jumping back and forth between the middle of the line where the scanner is and the back of the lane where the grocery cart unscanned groceries sit and the front of the line where the finished scanned groceries are put, What a night mare. All it did was create these huge lines at the two lanes that actually had a person there. 50% of the stores customers ether started shopping at a different Giant that still employed people, or started going to Safeway accross the street. Its the best example that I've ever seen that has proven people want ease, peice of mind, and service. Or... maybe even the friendly relationship to speak to a person, after being cooped up in the house all day. People dont want to troubleshoot their Internet service anymore than they want to go to the self-checkout lane with a full cart of groceries. And when they want some help, they want one of those special help customer service desks like most Giant's have, they dont want to wait in line. Just my 2 cents. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Scott Reed scottr...@onlyinternet.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:38 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Your question has some of the answer in it. What do you want for ROI (return on investment) timing? The answer to that helps determine installation charge and how much you have to charge per month. RickG wrote: Sure but I'm more curious about the business model for making money at such low prices. UBNT is priced right and certainly helps but it would still be tough to make a profit at only $24.95/month. I havent seen one a financial discusion on the list in a very long time. I though market share models died a long time ago. Are people still out there losing money in the short term in order to make money on the long term? On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: Mikrotik, StarOS, or UBNT could all deliver those speeds. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
I was expecting you to chime in Tom :) Thats exactly what I'm talking about and agree 100%. I cant figure out how $24.95 or even $29.95 works. But then, what number does? I realize when talking dollars that everyone's answer will vary because of a number of factors. But on a percentage basis, does 5% of gross revenue for a bottom line net profit work? We know it cant be 0%. I've seen companys try 0% or even less net profit to grab market share but sooner or later they've go to pay the piper. Ignoring that scenario, isnt profitability what really dictates your price? Its a balancing act for sure. If your income(price) is too low and expense(costs) are too high then you cant acheive the 5%-10% and please your wallet. On the contrary, you cant take too much profit or you wont be able to put it back into the business (upgrades, etc) and please the customers. So, I go back to what Jayson said: Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: $24.95/mo gets you 12Mbps/6Mbps. $49.95/mo gets you 20Mbps/6Mbps. We guarantee minimums--not just an up to speed. I want to know how he is doing it and if it is sustainable. If so, then I want to do it too. -RickG On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 4:28 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: There is only one way to make money at $24.95, and that is to stop answering the phone. Setup a fancy website for self help everything. And customer is on their own. I'm all for Self-help as an OPTION, but not as a forced requirement. We all know what I'm talking about all the things consumers complain about that are a repurcussion of $24.95 service. Phones answered by reception level skill sets. Billing disputes that are solved by disconnecting service on teh 2nd of the month, if the consumer didn't pay online regardless of whether there was a valid dispute. The customer down for a week, and nobody at teh provider really knew, and if they did and were called on it, they point to the clause in the Terms and conditions that says 30days. The type of installs, where the Dish gets installed right over the front door, because the installer was to lazy to get his ladder of the truck, and the 1hr allowed for install didn;t allow a more resourceful method to obtain a cosmetic appealing way to get LOS. The self-install that generates 50% packet loss, and degrades the network performance for all, but so what, its a Best Effort, right? Personally, I'll never do business that way. The day I have to be a $24.95 provider, I'll do something else. Some people may think otherwise, and are better at that game than I. Please note... I'm referring to provisioned Fixed Service meant to compete against DSL/cable quality. I'm not talking about HotSpot type Wifi, that can be done profitably at $15/month, because there are different expectations. I just keep thinking of the recent Giant Foods experiment. One of our local stores became the test bed for self check out registers. Instead of having 10 lanes with a person and 2 self check lines, this store actually converted like 10 lanes to self-checkout and 2 with a person. Its a night mare. Soemtimes for fun, I just watch the people going through the self-check and how frustrated they get. Self bagging was OK, but struggling to find the label, and getting that darn beeper to recognize the bar codes, and trying to watch a 3 year old or three at the same time as jumping back and forth between the middle of the line where the scanner is and the back of the lane where the grocery cart unscanned groceries sit and the front of the line where the finished scanned groceries are put, What a night mare. All it did was create these huge lines at the two lanes that actually had a person there. 50% of the stores customers ether started shopping at a different Giant that still employed people, or started going to Safeway accross the street. Its the best example that I've ever seen that has proven people want ease, peice of mind, and service. Or... maybe even the friendly relationship to speak to a person, after being cooped up in the house all day. People dont want to troubleshoot their Internet service anymore than they want to go to the self-checkout lane with a full cart of groceries. And when they want some help, they want one of those special help customer service desks like most Giant's have, they dont want to wait in line. Just my 2 cents. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Scott Reed scottr...@onlyinternet.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:38 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Your question has some of the answer in it. What do you want for ROI (return on investment) timing? The answer to that helps determine installation charge and how much you have to charge per month. RickG wrote: Sure but I'm more curious about the business model for making money
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
I'm the opposite, I prefer to shop at stores with self checkout. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 3:28 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL There is only one way to make money at $24.95, and that is to stop answering the phone. Setup a fancy website for self help everything. And customer is on their own. I'm all for Self-help as an OPTION, but not as a forced requirement. We all know what I'm talking about all the things consumers complain about that are a repurcussion of $24.95 service. Phones answered by reception level skill sets. Billing disputes that are solved by disconnecting service on teh 2nd of the month, if the consumer didn't pay online regardless of whether there was a valid dispute. The customer down for a week, and nobody at teh provider really knew, and if they did and were called on it, they point to the clause in the Terms and conditions that says 30days. The type of installs, where the Dish gets installed right over the front door, because the installer was to lazy to get his ladder of the truck, and the 1hr allowed for install didn;t allow a more resourceful method to obtain a cosmetic appealing way to get LOS. The self-install that generates 50% packet loss, and degrades the network performance for all, but so what, its a Best Effort, right? Personally, I'll never do business that way. The day I have to be a $24.95 provider, I'll do something else. Some people may think otherwise, and are better at that game than I. Please note... I'm referring to provisioned Fixed Service meant to compete against DSL/cable quality. I'm not talking about HotSpot type Wifi, that can be done profitably at $15/month, because there are different expectations. I just keep thinking of the recent Giant Foods experiment. One of our local stores became the test bed for self check out registers. Instead of having 10 lanes with a person and 2 self check lines, this store actually converted like 10 lanes to self-checkout and 2 with a person. Its a night mare. Soemtimes for fun, I just watch the people going through the self-check and how frustrated they get. Self bagging was OK, but struggling to find the label, and getting that darn beeper to recognize the bar codes, and trying to watch a 3 year old or three at the same time as jumping back and forth between the middle of the line where the scanner is and the back of the lane where the grocery cart unscanned groceries sit and the front of the line where the finished scanned groceries are put, What a night mare. All it did was create these huge lines at the two lanes that actually had a person there. 50% of the stores customers ether started shopping at a different Giant that still employed people, or started going to Safeway accross the street. Its the best example that I've ever seen that has proven people want ease, peice of mind, and service. Or... maybe even the friendly relationship to speak to a person, after being cooped up in the house all day. People dont want to troubleshoot their Internet service anymore than they want to go to the self-checkout lane with a full cart of groceries. And when they want some help, they want one of those special help customer service desks like most Giant's have, they dont want to wait in line. Just my 2 cents. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Scott Reed scottr...@onlyinternet.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:38 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Your question has some of the answer in it. What do you want for ROI (return on investment) timing? The answer to that helps determine installation charge and how much you have to charge per month. RickG wrote: Sure but I'm more curious about the business model for making money at such low prices. UBNT is priced right and certainly helps but it would still be tough to make a profit at only $24.95/month. I havent seen one a financial discusion on the list in a very long time. I though market share models died a long time ago. Are people still out there losing money in the short term in order to make money on the long term? On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: Mikrotik, StarOS, or UBNT could all deliver those speeds. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL If so, with what equipment? On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 1:35
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Mikrotik, StarOS, or UBNT could all deliver those speeds. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL If so, with what equipment? On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com wrote: Are you delivering that wireless? mc On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: That's what we did. $24.95/mo gets you 12Mbps/6Mbps. $49.95/mo gets you 20Mbps/6Mbps. We guarantee minimums--not just an up to speed. A lot of people really like that too. Our packages: www.peakinter.net On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:14 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: One of the things you have to keep in mind, is that you really do have to offer your customers a decent value for their dollars.35 Bux for a fraction of a meg is darn steep pricing these days. We offer a 300K for 25 and 2 meg for 38.50, which is reasonably competitive. You don't' need to be the cheapest to be competitive, but you can't be way outside of normal pricing. I'm thinking of throwing up some MIMO gear and offering something like a 7 meg service.Was thinking of making it about 75 / mo.Not the cheapest. Not the most expensive, either. What would 7 meg be in your area? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 8:05 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person said as long as you have it they will not raise the rate from $15. Think its for 768k service. Anyways we are getting about 1 person a day switching from our $35/month/768k wireless service to this DSL. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to retain these customers They are not even giving us a chance to offer them a lower price as they all already have the DSL turned on and been using it for a month before they cancel ours. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Marco C. Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. POB 875 Greenville, TX 75403-0875 903-455-5036 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Sure but I'm more curious about the business model for making money at such low prices. UBNT is priced right and certainly helps but it would still be tough to make a profit at only $24.95/month. I havent seen one a financial discusion on the list in a very long time. I though market share models died a long time ago. Are people still out there losing money in the short term in order to make money on the long term? On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: Mikrotik, StarOS, or UBNT could all deliver those speeds. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL If so, with what equipment? On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com wrote: Are you delivering that wireless? mc On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: That's what we did. $24.95/mo gets you 12Mbps/6Mbps. $49.95/mo gets you 20Mbps/6Mbps. We guarantee minimums--not just an up to speed. A lot of people really like that too. Our packages: www.peakinter.net On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:14 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: One of the things you have to keep in mind, is that you really do have to offer your customers a decent value for their dollars. 35 Bux for a fraction of a meg is darn steep pricing these days. We offer a 300K for 25 and 2 meg for 38.50, which is reasonably competitive. You don't' need to be the cheapest to be competitive, but you can't be way outside of normal pricing. I'm thinking of throwing up some MIMO gear and offering something like a 7 meg service. Was thinking of making it about 75 / mo. Not the cheapest. Not the most expensive, either. What would 7 meg be in your area? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 8:05 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person said as long as you have it they will not raise the rate from $15. Think its for 768k service. Anyways we are getting about 1 person a day switching from our $35/month/768k wireless service to this DSL. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to retain these customers They are not even giving us a chance to offer them a lower price as they all already have the DSL turned on and been using it for a month before they cancel ours. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Marco C. Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. POB 875 Greenville, TX 75403-0875 903-455-5036 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Your question has some of the answer in it. What do you want for ROI (return on investment) timing? The answer to that helps determine installation charge and how much you have to charge per month. RickG wrote: Sure but I'm more curious about the business model for making money at such low prices. UBNT is priced right and certainly helps but it would still be tough to make a profit at only $24.95/month. I havent seen one a financial discusion on the list in a very long time. I though market share models died a long time ago. Are people still out there losing money in the short term in order to make money on the long term? On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: Mikrotik, StarOS, or UBNT could all deliver those speeds. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL If so, with what equipment? On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com wrote: Are you delivering that wireless? mc On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: That's what we did. $24.95/mo gets you 12Mbps/6Mbps. $49.95/mo gets you 20Mbps/6Mbps. We guarantee minimums--not just an up to speed. A lot of people really like that too. Our packages: www.peakinter.net On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:14 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: One of the things you have to keep in mind, is that you really do have to offer your customers a decent value for their dollars.35 Bux for a fraction of a meg is darn steep pricing these days. We offer a 300K for 25 and 2 meg for 38.50, which is reasonably competitive. You don't' need to be the cheapest to be competitive, but you can't be way outside of normal pricing. I'm thinking of throwing up some MIMO gear and offering something like a 7 meg service.Was thinking of making it about 75 / mo.Not the cheapest. Not the most expensive, either. What would 7 meg be in your area? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 8:05 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person said as long as you have it they will not raise the rate from $15. Think its for 768k service. Anyways we are getting about 1 person a day switching from our $35/month/768k wireless service to this DSL. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to retain these customers They are not even giving us a chance to offer them a lower price as they all already have the DSL turned on and been using it for a month before they cancel ours. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Marco C. Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. POB 875 Greenville, TX 75403-0875 903-455-5036 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Using UBNT, we have a zero day ROI. We pay the salesperson a commission and the installer is paid by the job. Thus, the install fee and first month service covers it all including the price of the radio/antenna. After that, the monthly charge comes with not much effort unless the customer turns out to be high maintenance and with that, we just start charging for service calls and computer repairs. Just because one charges a small monthly fee doesnt mean you cant have add on services, higher tiers or other profit areas. But even with that, we've had the cheap skate discussion before some people will go with the 15 buck slow service no matter what. Let em'. You deal with that type of offer with quality, service and educating your market. The worst thing you could do, in my opinion, is to try to join in their game. It only associates their low quality standards with you. Apple computers doesnt sell $298 laptops for a reason. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:29 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Sure but I'm more curious about the business model for making money at such low prices. UBNT is priced right and certainly helps but it would still be tough to make a profit at only $24.95/month. I havent seen one a financial discusion on the list in a very long time. I though market share models died a long time ago. Are people still out there losing money in the short term in order to make money on the long term? On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: Mikrotik, StarOS, or UBNT could all deliver those speeds. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL If so, with what equipment? On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com wrote: Are you delivering that wireless? mc On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: That's what we did. $24.95/mo gets you 12Mbps/6Mbps. $49.95/mo gets you 20Mbps/6Mbps. We guarantee minimums--not just an up to speed. A lot of people really like that too. Our packages: www.peakinter.net On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:14 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: One of the things you have to keep in mind, is that you really do have to offer your customers a decent value for their dollars. 35 Bux for a fraction of a meg is darn steep pricing these days. We offer a 300K for 25 and 2 meg for 38.50, which is reasonably competitive. You don't' need to be the cheapest to be competitive, but you can't be way outside of normal pricing. I'm thinking of throwing up some MIMO gear and offering something like a 7 meg service. Was thinking of making it about 75 / mo. Not the cheapest. Not the most expensive, either. What would 7 meg be in your area? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 8:05 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person said as long as you have it they will not raise the rate from $15. Think its for 768k service. Anyways we are getting about 1 person a day switching from our $35/month/768k wireless service to this DSL. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to retain these customers They are not even giving us a chance to offer them a lower price as they all already have the DSL turned on and been using it for a month before they cancel ours. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
As an afterthought, you might want to advertise a Special for customers who are switching away from that 15 buck service. Gives it the face that a lot of people have been switching, even if they havent, without actually slamming that 15 buck offer directly. If anyone asks how business is... Busy, we've been getting so many people switching from that 15 buck service, it's hard to keep up Quite a few years ago I was in the pizza business. The area had a reputation for slow service so I put up a sign advertising Now Hiring 30 Delivery Drivers!. Every day or so we would change the sign to a lower number. Nope, didnt hire 30 drivers, only 5 or 6 but the word got out that we had over 30 drivers and our sales went through the roof. Funny thing is we eventually DID end up with 30 drivers when it was all said and done. Image is everything, reality takes a back seat. That's marketing. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 6:35 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Using UBNT, we have a zero day ROI. We pay the salesperson a commission and the installer is paid by the job. Thus, the install fee and first month service covers it all including the price of the radio/antenna. After that, the monthly charge comes with not much effort unless the customer turns out to be high maintenance and with that, we just start charging for service calls and computer repairs. Just because one charges a small monthly fee doesnt mean you cant have add on services, higher tiers or other profit areas. But even with that, we've had the cheap skate discussion before some people will go with the 15 buck slow service no matter what. Let em'. You deal with that type of offer with quality, service and educating your market. The worst thing you could do, in my opinion, is to try to join in their game. It only associates their low quality standards with you. Apple computers doesnt sell $298 laptops for a reason. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:29 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Sure but I'm more curious about the business model for making money at such low prices. UBNT is priced right and certainly helps but it would still be tough to make a profit at only $24.95/month. I havent seen one a financial discusion on the list in a very long time. I though market share models died a long time ago. Are people still out there losing money in the short term in order to make money on the long term? On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: Mikrotik, StarOS, or UBNT could all deliver those speeds. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL If so, with what equipment? On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com wrote: Are you delivering that wireless? mc On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: That's what we did. $24.95/mo gets you 12Mbps/6Mbps. $49.95/mo gets you 20Mbps/6Mbps. We guarantee minimums--not just an up to speed. A lot of people really like that too. Our packages: www.peakinter.net On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:14 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: One of the things you have to keep in mind, is that you really do have to offer your customers a decent value for their dollars. 35 Bux for a fraction of a meg is darn steep pricing these days. We offer a 300K for 25 and 2 meg for 38.50, which is reasonably competitive. You don't' need to be the cheapest to be competitive, but you can't be way outside of normal pricing. I'm thinking of throwing up some MIMO gear and offering something like a 7 meg service. Was thinking of making it about 75 / mo. Not the cheapest. Not the most expensive, either. What would 7 meg be in your area? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 8:05 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person said as long as you have it they will not raise the rate from $15. Think its for 768k service. Anyways we are getting about 1
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Yes, they can, but only a few clients per access point. You cannot do it with 30 clients on an 11A ap. You can if only 2-4 clients are ever busy at the same time. But I'm seeing sustained 2mbit transfers for HOURS to around 20% of my clients. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:39 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Mikrotik, StarOS, or UBNT could all deliver those speeds. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL If so, with what equipment? On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com wrote: Are you delivering that wireless? mc On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: That's what we did. $24.95/mo gets you 12Mbps/6Mbps. $49.95/mo gets you 20Mbps/6Mbps. We guarantee minimums--not just an up to speed. A lot of people really like that too. Our packages: www.peakinter.net On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:14 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: One of the things you have to keep in mind, is that you really do have to offer your customers a decent value for their dollars.35 Bux for a fraction of a meg is darn steep pricing these days. We offer a 300K for 25 and 2 meg for 38.50, which is reasonably competitive. You don't' need to be the cheapest to be competitive, but you can't be way outside of normal pricing. I'm thinking of throwing up some MIMO gear and offering something like a 7 meg service.Was thinking of making it about 75 / mo.Not the cheapest. Not the most expensive, either. What would 7 meg be in your area? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 8:05 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person said as long as you have it they will not raise the rate from $15. Think its for 768k service. Anyways we are getting about 1 person a day switching from our $35/month/768k wireless service to this DSL. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to retain these customers They are not even giving us a chance to offer them a lower price as they all already have the DSL turned on and been using it for a month before they cancel ours. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Marco C. Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. POB 875 Greenville, TX 75403-0875 903-455-5036 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
I think most of the WISPS that offer 6+ mbps services are bursting for like the first 30 seconds, then they fall back to something like 1.5mbps. I asked myself the same question until I started to think about it, they are bursting, I'm sure of it... Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 8:31 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Yes, they can, but only a few clients per access point. You cannot do it with 30 clients on an 11A ap. You can if only 2-4 clients are ever busy at the same time. But I'm seeing sustained 2mbit transfers for HOURS to around 20% of my clients. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:39 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Mikrotik, StarOS, or UBNT could all deliver those speeds. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL If so, with what equipment? On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com wrote: Are you delivering that wireless? mc On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: That's what we did. $24.95/mo gets you 12Mbps/6Mbps. $49.95/mo gets you 20Mbps/6Mbps. We guarantee minimums--not just an up to speed. A lot of people really like that too. Our packages: www.peakinter.net On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:14 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: One of the things you have to keep in mind, is that you really do have to offer your customers a decent value for their dollars.35 Bux for a fraction of a meg is darn steep pricing these days. We offer a 300K for 25 and 2 meg for 38.50, which is reasonably competitive. You don't' need to be the cheapest to be competitive, but you can't be way outside of normal pricing. I'm thinking of throwing up some MIMO gear and offering something like a 7 meg service.Was thinking of making it about 75 / mo.Not the cheapest. Not the most expensive, either. What would 7 meg be in your area? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 8:05 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person said as long as you have it they will not raise the rate from $15. Think its for 768k service. Anyways we are getting about 1 person a day switching from our $35/month/768k wireless service to this DSL. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to retain these customers They are not even giving us a chance to offer them a lower price as they all already have the DSL turned on and been using it for a month before they cancel ours. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
I'm thinking Ubiquiti Airmax can but I could be wrong? On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 8:31 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: Yes, they can, but only a few clients per access point. You cannot do it with 30 clients on an 11A ap. You can if only 2-4 clients are ever busy at the same time. But I'm seeing sustained 2mbit transfers for HOURS to around 20% of my clients. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:39 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Mikrotik, StarOS, or UBNT could all deliver those speeds. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL If so, with what equipment? On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com wrote: Are you delivering that wireless? mc On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: That's what we did. $24.95/mo gets you 12Mbps/6Mbps. $49.95/mo gets you 20Mbps/6Mbps. We guarantee minimums--not just an up to speed. A lot of people really like that too. Our packages: www.peakinter.net On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:14 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: One of the things you have to keep in mind, is that you really do have to offer your customers a decent value for their dollars. 35 Bux for a fraction of a meg is darn steep pricing these days. We offer a 300K for 25 and 2 meg for 38.50, which is reasonably competitive. You don't' need to be the cheapest to be competitive, but you can't be way outside of normal pricing. I'm thinking of throwing up some MIMO gear and offering something like a 7 meg service. Was thinking of making it about 75 / mo. Not the cheapest. Not the most expensive, either. What would 7 meg be in your area? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 8:05 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person said as long as you have it they will not raise the rate from $15. Think its for 768k service. Anyways we are getting about 1 person a day switching from our $35/month/768k wireless service to this DSL. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to retain these customers They are not even giving us a chance to offer them a lower price as they all already have the DSL turned on and been using it for a month before they cancel ours. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Marco C. Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. POB 875 Greenville, TX 75403-0875 903-455-5036 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
They must. Not just wireless either. My Time Warner Tech says they burst all residential accounts. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:20 PM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I think most of the WISPS that offer 6+ mbps services are bursting for like the first 30 seconds, then they fall back to something like 1.5mbps. I asked myself the same question until I started to think about it, they are bursting, I'm sure of it... Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 8:31 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Yes, they can, but only a few clients per access point. You cannot do it with 30 clients on an 11A ap. You can if only 2-4 clients are ever busy at the same time. But I'm seeing sustained 2mbit transfers for HOURS to around 20% of my clients. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:39 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Mikrotik, StarOS, or UBNT could all deliver those speeds. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL If so, with what equipment? On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com wrote: Are you delivering that wireless? mc On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: That's what we did. $24.95/mo gets you 12Mbps/6Mbps. $49.95/mo gets you 20Mbps/6Mbps. We guarantee minimums--not just an up to speed. A lot of people really like that too. Our packages: www.peakinter.net On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:14 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: One of the things you have to keep in mind, is that you really do have to offer your customers a decent value for their dollars. 35 Bux for a fraction of a meg is darn steep pricing these days. We offer a 300K for 25 and 2 meg for 38.50, which is reasonably competitive. You don't' need to be the cheapest to be competitive, but you can't be way outside of normal pricing. I'm thinking of throwing up some MIMO gear and offering something like a 7 meg service. Was thinking of making it about 75 / mo. Not the cheapest. Not the most expensive, either. What would 7 meg be in your area? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 8:05 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person said as long as you have it they will not raise the rate from $15. Think its for 768k service. Anyways we are getting about 1 person a day switching from our $35/month/768k wireless service to this DSL. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to retain these customers They are not even giving us a chance to offer them a lower price as they all already have the DSL turned on and been using it for a month before they cancel ours. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Interesting that Time Warner bursts the residential accounts, their Turbo service started out pretty consistent about 6 months ago with always being 20+mbps. Now its flakey at best. One minute you run a speed test and its 22mbps, next test its 7mbps, all over the board now. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL They must. Not just wireless either. My Time Warner Tech says they burst all residential accounts. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:20 PM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I think most of the WISPS that offer 6+ mbps services are bursting for like the first 30 seconds, then they fall back to something like 1.5mbps. I asked myself the same question until I started to think about it, they are bursting, I'm sure of it... Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 8:31 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Yes, they can, but only a few clients per access point. You cannot do it with 30 clients on an 11A ap. You can if only 2-4 clients are ever busy at the same time. But I'm seeing sustained 2mbit transfers for HOURS to around 20% of my clients. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:39 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Mikrotik, StarOS, or UBNT could all deliver those speeds. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL If so, with what equipment? On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com wrote: Are you delivering that wireless? mc On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: That's what we did. $24.95/mo gets you 12Mbps/6Mbps. $49.95/mo gets you 20Mbps/6Mbps. We guarantee minimums--not just an up to speed. A lot of people really like that too. Our packages: www.peakinter.net On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:14 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: One of the things you have to keep in mind, is that you really do have to offer your customers a decent value for their dollars. 35 Bux for a fraction of a meg is darn steep pricing these days. We offer a 300K for 25 and 2 meg for 38.50, which is reasonably competitive. You don't' need to be the cheapest to be competitive, but you can't be way outside of normal pricing. I'm thinking of throwing up some MIMO gear and offering something like a 7 meg service. Was thinking of making it about 75 / mo. Not the cheapest. Not the most expensive, either. What would 7 meg be in your area? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 8:05 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person said as long as you have it they will not raise the rate from $15. Think its for 768k service. Anyways we are getting about 1 person a day switching from our $35/month/768k wireless service to this DSL. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to retain these customers They are not even giving us a chance to offer them a lower price as they all already have the DSL turned on and been using it for a month before they cancel ours. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Time Warner is a nightmare for a number of reasons... They are still running docsis 2 for goodness sake. While Docsis 2 was a great step forward over 1 - running @ 6.4MHz - allowing for some pretty interesting speeds... Docsis 3 is a huge step forward however - and would be a great deal for Time Warner to put into place... In short - Docsis 2 only allows support for 1 channel - thus a throughput of 30.72Mbit/s - where as Docsis 3 allows for multiple channels - and thus allows for each channel to push roughly 38mbps - so - # of channels x 30Mbit/s is absolutely awesome Not sure why they are not pushing this - ... In short - with 4 downstream and 4 upstream channels - Docsis 3 gives 122.88 Mbit/s with 8 channels down and 4 upstream - Docsis 3 gives 343Mbit/s down and 122.88 up Now if Comcast can do it - why cant Time Warner? On Mar 24, 2010, at 11:29 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Interesting that Time Warner bursts the residential accounts, their Turbo service started out pretty consistent about 6 months ago with always being 20+mbps. Now its flakey at best. One minute you run a speed test and its 22mbps, next test its 7mbps, all over the board now. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL They must. Not just wireless either. My Time Warner Tech says they burst all residential accounts. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:20 PM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I think most of the WISPS that offer 6+ mbps services are bursting for like the first 30 seconds, then they fall back to something like 1.5mbps. I asked myself the same question until I started to think about it, they are bursting, I'm sure of it... Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 8:31 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Yes, they can, but only a few clients per access point. You cannot do it with 30 clients on an 11A ap. You can if only 2-4 clients are ever busy at the same time. But I'm seeing sustained 2mbit transfers for HOURS to around 20% of my clients. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:39 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Mikrotik, StarOS, or UBNT could all deliver those speeds. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL If so, with what equipment? On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com wrote: Are you delivering that wireless? mc On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: That's what we did. $24.95/mo gets you 12Mbps/6Mbps. $49.95/ mo gets you 20Mbps/6Mbps. We guarantee minimums--not just an up to speed. A lot of people really like that too. Our packages: www.peakinter.net On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:14 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: One of the things you have to keep in mind, is that you really do have to offer your customers a decent value for their dollars.35 Bux for a fraction of a meg is darn steep pricing these days. We offer a 300K for 25 and 2 meg for 38.50, which is reasonably competitive. You don't' need to be the cheapest to be competitive, but you can't be way outside of normal pricing. I'm thinking of throwing up some MIMO gear and offering something like a 7 meg service.Was thinking of making it about 75 / mo. Not the cheapest. Not the most expensive, either. What would 7 meg be in your area? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 8:05 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Why do it...? If TWC has customers why upgrade them and give them better speeds? I doubt a significant number of people are switching from TWC to another provider for higher speeds. Why aren't you replacing every one of your 5.7 APs with the pmp430? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 12:41 AM, Glenn Kelley gl...@hostmedic.com wrote: Time Warner is a nightmare for a number of reasons... They are still running docsis 2 for goodness sake. While Docsis 2 was a great step forward over 1 - running @ 6.4MHz - allowing for some pretty interesting speeds... Docsis 3 is a huge step forward however - and would be a great deal for Time Warner to put into place... In short - Docsis 2 only allows support for 1 channel - thus a throughput of 30.72Mbit/s - where as Docsis 3 allows for multiple channels - and thus allows for each channel to push roughly 38mbps - so - # of channels x 30Mbit/s is absolutely awesome Not sure why they are not pushing this - ... In short - with 4 downstream and 4 upstream channels - Docsis 3 gives 122.88 Mbit/s with 8 channels down and 4 upstream - Docsis 3 gives 343Mbit/s down and 122.88 up Now if Comcast can do it - why cant Time Warner? On Mar 24, 2010, at 11:29 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Interesting that Time Warner bursts the residential accounts, their Turbo service started out pretty consistent about 6 months ago with always being 20+mbps. Now its flakey at best. One minute you run a speed test and its 22mbps, next test its 7mbps, all over the board now. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL They must. Not just wireless either. My Time Warner Tech says they burst all residential accounts. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:20 PM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I think most of the WISPS that offer 6+ mbps services are bursting for like the first 30 seconds, then they fall back to something like 1.5mbps. I asked myself the same question until I started to think about it, they are bursting, I'm sure of it... Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 8:31 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Yes, they can, but only a few clients per access point. You cannot do it with 30 clients on an 11A ap. You can if only 2-4 clients are ever busy at the same time. But I'm seeing sustained 2mbit transfers for HOURS to around 20% of my clients. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:39 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Mikrotik, StarOS, or UBNT could all deliver those speeds. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL If so, with what equipment? On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com wrote: Are you delivering that wireless? mc On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: That's what we did. $24.95/mo gets you 12Mbps/6Mbps. $49.95/ mo gets you 20Mbps/6Mbps. We guarantee minimums--not just an up to speed. A lot of people really like that too. Our packages: www.peakinter.net On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:14 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: One of the things you have to keep in mind, is that you really do have to offer your customers a decent value for their dollars. 35 Bux for a fraction of a meg is darn steep pricing these days. We offer a 300K for 25 and 2 meg for 38.50, which is reasonably competitive. You don't' need to be the cheapest to be competitive, but you can't be way outside of normal pricing. I'm thinking of throwing up some MIMO gear and offering something like a 7 meg service. Was thinking of making it about 75 / mo. Not the cheapest. Not the most expensive, either. What would 7 meg be in your area
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
I don't see hwy AirMax, N-Streme, or whatever Star's equivalent of those two couldn't maintain 30 customers with big plans (not all using it at once, however). - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 10:20 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I'm thinking Ubiquiti Airmax can but I could be wrong? On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 8:31 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: Yes, they can, but only a few clients per access point. You cannot do it with 30 clients on an 11A ap. You can if only 2-4 clients are ever busy at the same time. But I'm seeing sustained 2mbit transfers for HOURS to around 20% of my clients. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:39 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Mikrotik, StarOS, or UBNT could all deliver those speeds. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL If so, with what equipment? On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com wrote: Are you delivering that wireless? mc On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: That's what we did. $24.95/mo gets you 12Mbps/6Mbps. $49.95/mo gets you 20Mbps/6Mbps. We guarantee minimums--not just an up to speed. A lot of people really like that too. Our packages: www.peakinter.net On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:14 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: One of the things you have to keep in mind, is that you really do have to offer your customers a decent value for their dollars.35 Bux for a fraction of a meg is darn steep pricing these days. We offer a 300K for 25 and 2 meg for 38.50, which is reasonably competitive. You don't' need to be the cheapest to be competitive, but you can't be way outside of normal pricing. I'm thinking of throwing up some MIMO gear and offering something like a 7 meg service.Was thinking of making it about 75 / mo.Not the cheapest. Not the most expensive, either. What would 7 meg be in your area? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 8:05 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person said as long as you have it they will not raise the rate from $15. Think its for 768k service. Anyways we are getting about 1 person a day switching from our $35/month/768k wireless service to this DSL. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to retain these customers They are not even giving us a chance to offer them a lower price as they all already have the DSL turned on and been using it for a month before they cancel ours. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
well - i think they dont for a few reasons... But the point is - they can. for most systems it is a pretty simple update... I am not saying simply sell it at the same price mind you... but ... if they can charge $200 vs $50 - thats a heck of a revenue increase... love the Churchill statement btw :-) On Mar 25, 2010, at 12:45 AM, Josh Luthman wrote: Why do it...? If TWC has customers why upgrade them and give them better speeds? I doubt a significant number of people are switching from TWC to another provider for higher speeds. Why aren't you replacing every one of your 5.7 APs with the pmp430? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 12:41 AM, Glenn Kelley gl...@hostmedic.com wrote: Time Warner is a nightmare for a number of reasons... They are still running docsis 2 for goodness sake. While Docsis 2 was a great step forward over 1 - running @ 6.4MHz - allowing for some pretty interesting speeds... Docsis 3 is a huge step forward however - and would be a great deal for Time Warner to put into place... In short - Docsis 2 only allows support for 1 channel - thus a throughput of 30.72Mbit/s - where as Docsis 3 allows for multiple channels - and thus allows for each channel to push roughly 38mbps - so - # of channels x 30Mbit/s is absolutely awesome Not sure why they are not pushing this - ... In short - with 4 downstream and 4 upstream channels - Docsis 3 gives 122.88 Mbit/s with 8 channels down and 4 upstream - Docsis 3 gives 343Mbit/s down and 122.88 up Now if Comcast can do it - why cant Time Warner? On Mar 24, 2010, at 11:29 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Interesting that Time Warner bursts the residential accounts, their Turbo service started out pretty consistent about 6 months ago with always being 20+mbps. Now its flakey at best. One minute you run a speed test and its 22mbps, next test its 7mbps, all over the board now. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL They must. Not just wireless either. My Time Warner Tech says they burst all residential accounts. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:20 PM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I think most of the WISPS that offer 6+ mbps services are bursting for like the first 30 seconds, then they fall back to something like 1.5mbps. I asked myself the same question until I started to think about it, they are bursting, I'm sure of it... Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 8:31 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Yes, they can, but only a few clients per access point. You cannot do it with 30 clients on an 11A ap. You can if only 2-4 clients are ever busy at the same time. But I'm seeing sustained 2mbit transfers for HOURS to around 20% of my clients. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:39 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Mikrotik, StarOS, or UBNT could all deliver those speeds. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL If so, with what equipment? On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com wrote: Are you delivering that wireless? mc On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: That's what we did. $24.95/mo gets you 12Mbps/6Mbps. $49.95/ mo gets you 20Mbps/6Mbps. We guarantee minimums--not just an up to speed. A lot of people really like that too. Our packages: www.peakinter.net On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:14 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: One of the things you have to keep in mind, is that you really do have to offer your customers a decent value for their dollars.35 Bux for a fraction of a meg is darn steep pricing these days. We offer a 300K for 25 and 2 meg for 38.50, which is reasonably competitive
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Does it have reverse compatibility with the old modems and cabling? If it's a software upgrade they'd be dumb not to. If it's a lot of hardware the cost may not justify the update. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 1:07 AM, Glenn Kelley gl...@hostmedic.com wrote: well - i think they dont for a few reasons... But the point is - they can. for most systems it is a pretty simple update... I am not saying simply sell it at the same price mind you... but ... if they can charge $200 vs $50 - thats a heck of a revenue increase... love the Churchill statement btw :-) On Mar 25, 2010, at 12:45 AM, Josh Luthman wrote: Why do it...? If TWC has customers why upgrade them and give them better speeds? I doubt a significant number of people are switching from TWC to another provider for higher speeds. Why aren't you replacing every one of your 5.7 APs with the pmp430? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 12:41 AM, Glenn Kelley gl...@hostmedic.com wrote: Time Warner is a nightmare for a number of reasons... They are still running docsis 2 for goodness sake. While Docsis 2 was a great step forward over 1 - running @ 6.4MHz - allowing for some pretty interesting speeds... Docsis 3 is a huge step forward however - and would be a great deal for Time Warner to put into place... In short - Docsis 2 only allows support for 1 channel - thus a throughput of 30.72Mbit/s - where as Docsis 3 allows for multiple channels - and thus allows for each channel to push roughly 38mbps - so - # of channels x 30Mbit/s is absolutely awesome Not sure why they are not pushing this - ... In short - with 4 downstream and 4 upstream channels - Docsis 3 gives 122.88 Mbit/s with 8 channels down and 4 upstream - Docsis 3 gives 343Mbit/s down and 122.88 up Now if Comcast can do it - why cant Time Warner? On Mar 24, 2010, at 11:29 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Interesting that Time Warner bursts the residential accounts, their Turbo service started out pretty consistent about 6 months ago with always being 20+mbps. Now its flakey at best. One minute you run a speed test and its 22mbps, next test its 7mbps, all over the board now. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL They must. Not just wireless either. My Time Warner Tech says they burst all residential accounts. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:20 PM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I think most of the WISPS that offer 6+ mbps services are bursting for like the first 30 seconds, then they fall back to something like 1.5mbps. I asked myself the same question until I started to think about it, they are bursting, I'm sure of it... Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 8:31 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Yes, they can, but only a few clients per access point. You cannot do it with 30 clients on an 11A ap. You can if only 2-4 clients are ever busy at the same time. But I'm seeing sustained 2mbit transfers for HOURS to around 20% of my clients. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:39 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Mikrotik, StarOS, or UBNT could all deliver those speeds. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL If so, with what equipment? On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com wrote: Are you delivering that wireless? mc On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: That's what we did. $24.95/mo gets you 12Mbps/6Mbps. $49.95/ mo gets you 20Mbps/6Mbps. We guarantee minimums
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
depending on the cmts in place - yes or no for most - yes the fiber is fiber is fiber... to the greatest part docsis 3 allows them to share the channel Now imagine getting a cable modem say with 200MBPS down - 100 up and installing out on a pole somewhere - then bouncing from there to your tower ... voila - WISP made easier ... of course - there are ip considerations - but you get the picture Bob here in Ohio does that w/ the lower level stuff already ;-) I remember working for a large MSO and having a 3COM CMTS (cable modem termination system) that kept crapping out - threw different IOS from a well known provider and competitor - and with a little tweaking - it worked solid for a long long time. While it may be hard in all areas for them to roll it out - for the basic ones - like Columbus, Cincy, Dayton - etc... its a no brainer imho On Mar 25, 2010, at 1:18 AM, Josh Luthman wrote: Does it have reverse compatibility with the old modems and cabling? If it's a software upgrade they'd be dumb not to. If it's a lot of hardware the cost may not justify the update. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 1:07 AM, Glenn Kelley gl...@hostmedic.com wrote: well - i think they dont for a few reasons... But the point is - they can. for most systems it is a pretty simple update... I am not saying simply sell it at the same price mind you... but ... if they can charge $200 vs $50 - thats a heck of a revenue increase... love the Churchill statement btw :-) On Mar 25, 2010, at 12:45 AM, Josh Luthman wrote: Why do it...? If TWC has customers why upgrade them and give them better speeds? I doubt a significant number of people are switching from TWC to another provider for higher speeds. Why aren't you replacing every one of your 5.7 APs with the pmp430? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 12:41 AM, Glenn Kelley gl...@hostmedic.com wrote: Time Warner is a nightmare for a number of reasons... They are still running docsis 2 for goodness sake. While Docsis 2 was a great step forward over 1 - running @ 6.4MHz - allowing for some pretty interesting speeds... Docsis 3 is a huge step forward however - and would be a great deal for Time Warner to put into place... In short - Docsis 2 only allows support for 1 channel - thus a throughput of 30.72Mbit/s - where as Docsis 3 allows for multiple channels - and thus allows for each channel to push roughly 38mbps - so - # of channels x 30Mbit/s is absolutely awesome Not sure why they are not pushing this - ... In short - with 4 downstream and 4 upstream channels - Docsis 3 gives 122.88 Mbit/s with 8 channels down and 4 upstream - Docsis 3 gives 343Mbit/s down and 122.88 up Now if Comcast can do it - why cant Time Warner? On Mar 24, 2010, at 11:29 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Interesting that Time Warner bursts the residential accounts, their Turbo service started out pretty consistent about 6 months ago with always being 20+mbps. Now its flakey at best. One minute you run a speed test and its 22mbps, next test its 7mbps, all over the board now. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org ] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL They must. Not just wireless either. My Time Warner Tech says they burst all residential accounts. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:20 PM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I think most of the WISPS that offer 6+ mbps services are bursting for like the first 30 seconds, then they fall back to something like 1.5mbps. I asked myself the same question until I started to think about it, they are bursting, I'm sure of it... Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 8:31 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Yes, they can, but only a few clients per access point. You cannot do it with 30 clients on an 11A ap. You can if only 2-4 clients are ever busy at the same time. But I'm seeing sustained 2mbit transfers for HOURS to around 20% of my clients. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Comcast once the roll out is complete will be moving 100% to IPV6 - another nice addition of docsis 3 Wish most of the hardware in the WISP environment supported it On Mar 25, 2010, at 1:38 AM, Glenn Kelley wrote: depending on the cmts in place - yes or no for most - yes the fiber is fiber is fiber... to the greatest part docsis 3 allows them to share the channel Now imagine getting a cable modem say with 200MBPS down - 100 up and installing out on a pole somewhere - then bouncing from there to your tower ... voila - WISP made easier ... of course - there are ip considerations - but you get the picture Bob here in Ohio does that w/ the lower level stuff already ;-) I remember working for a large MSO and having a 3COM CMTS (cable modem termination system) that kept crapping out - threw different IOS from a well known provider and competitor - and with a little tweaking - it worked solid for a long long time. While it may be hard in all areas for them to roll it out - for the basic ones - like Columbus, Cincy, Dayton - etc... its a no brainer imho On Mar 25, 2010, at 1:18 AM, Josh Luthman wrote: Does it have reverse compatibility with the old modems and cabling? If it's a software upgrade they'd be dumb not to. If it's a lot of hardware the cost may not justify the update. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 1:07 AM, Glenn Kelley gl...@hostmedic.com wrote: well - i think they dont for a few reasons... But the point is - they can. for most systems it is a pretty simple update... I am not saying simply sell it at the same price mind you... but ... if they can charge $200 vs $50 - thats a heck of a revenue increase... love the Churchill statement btw :-) On Mar 25, 2010, at 12:45 AM, Josh Luthman wrote: Why do it...? If TWC has customers why upgrade them and give them better speeds? I doubt a significant number of people are switching from TWC to another provider for higher speeds. Why aren't you replacing every one of your 5.7 APs with the pmp430? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 12:41 AM, Glenn Kelley gl...@hostmedic.com wrote: Time Warner is a nightmare for a number of reasons... They are still running docsis 2 for goodness sake. While Docsis 2 was a great step forward over 1 - running @ 6.4MHz - allowing for some pretty interesting speeds... Docsis 3 is a huge step forward however - and would be a great deal for Time Warner to put into place... In short - Docsis 2 only allows support for 1 channel - thus a throughput of 30.72Mbit/s - where as Docsis 3 allows for multiple channels - and thus allows for each channel to push roughly 38mbps - so - # of channels x 30Mbit/s is absolutely awesome Not sure why they are not pushing this - ... In short - with 4 downstream and 4 upstream channels - Docsis 3 gives 122.88 Mbit/s with 8 channels down and 4 upstream - Docsis 3 gives 343Mbit/s down and 122.88 up Now if Comcast can do it - why cant Time Warner? On Mar 24, 2010, at 11:29 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Interesting that Time Warner bursts the residential accounts, their Turbo service started out pretty consistent about 6 months ago with always being 20+mbps. Now its flakey at best. One minute you run a speed test and its 22mbps, next test its 7mbps, all over the board now. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org ] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL They must. Not just wireless either. My Time Warner Tech says they burst all residential accounts. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:20 PM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I think most of the WISPS that offer 6+ mbps services are bursting for like the first 30 seconds, then they fall back to something like 1.5mbps. I asked myself the same question until I started to think about it, they are bursting, I'm sure of it... Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 8:31 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Yes, they can, but only a few clients per access point. You cannot do it with 30 clients on an 11A ap. You can if only
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Are you delivering that wireless? mc On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: That's what we did. $24.95/mo gets you 12Mbps/6Mbps. $49.95/mo gets you 20Mbps/6Mbps. We guarantee minimums--not just an up to speed. A lot of people really like that too. Our packages: www.peakinter.net On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:14 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: One of the things you have to keep in mind, is that you really do have to offer your customers a decent value for their dollars. 35 Bux for a fraction of a meg is darn steep pricing these days. We offer a 300K for 25 and 2 meg for 38.50, which is reasonably competitive. You don't' need to be the cheapest to be competitive, but you can't be way outside of normal pricing. I'm thinking of throwing up some MIMO gear and offering something like a 7 meg service. Was thinking of making it about 75 / mo. Not the cheapest. Not the most expensive, either. What would 7 meg be in your area? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 8:05 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person said as long as you have it they will not raise the rate from $15. Think its for 768k service. Anyways we are getting about 1 person a day switching from our $35/month/768k wireless service to this DSL. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to retain these customers They are not even giving us a chance to offer them a lower price as they all already have the DSL turned on and been using it for a month before they cancel ours. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Marco C. Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. POB 875 Greenville, TX 75403-0875 903-455-5036 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Peak Internet - Wireless Internet Service Provider; WiMAX Internet Services For Your Home Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com wrote: Are you delivering that wireless? mc On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: That's what we did. $24.95/mo gets you 12Mbps/6Mbps. $49.95/mo gets you 20Mbps/6Mbps. We guarantee minimums--not just an up to speed. A lot of people really like that too. Our packages: www.peakinter.net On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:14 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: One of the things you have to keep in mind, is that you really do have to offer your customers a decent value for their dollars. 35 Bux for a fraction of a meg is darn steep pricing these days. We offer a 300K for 25 and 2 meg for 38.50, which is reasonably competitive. You don't' need to be the cheapest to be competitive, but you can't be way outside of normal pricing. I'm thinking of throwing up some MIMO gear and offering something like a 7 meg service. Was thinking of making it about 75 / mo. Not the cheapest. Not the most expensive, either. What would 7 meg be in your area? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 8:05 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person said as long as you have it they will not raise the rate from $15. Think its for 768k service. Anyways we are getting about 1 person a day switching from our $35/month/768k wireless service to this DSL. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to retain these customers They are not even giving us a chance to offer them a lower price as they all already have the DSL turned on and been using it for a month before they cancel ours. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Marco C. Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. POB 875 Greenville, TX 75403-0875 903-455-5036 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
If so, with what equipment? On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com wrote: Are you delivering that wireless? mc On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: That's what we did. $24.95/mo gets you 12Mbps/6Mbps. $49.95/mo gets you 20Mbps/6Mbps. We guarantee minimums--not just an up to speed. A lot of people really like that too. Our packages: www.peakinter.net On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:14 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: One of the things you have to keep in mind, is that you really do have to offer your customers a decent value for their dollars. 35 Bux for a fraction of a meg is darn steep pricing these days. We offer a 300K for 25 and 2 meg for 38.50, which is reasonably competitive. You don't' need to be the cheapest to be competitive, but you can't be way outside of normal pricing. I'm thinking of throwing up some MIMO gear and offering something like a 7 meg service. Was thinking of making it about 75 / mo. Not the cheapest. Not the most expensive, either. What would 7 meg be in your area? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 8:05 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person said as long as you have it they will not raise the rate from $15. Think its for 768k service. Anyways we are getting about 1 person a day switching from our $35/month/768k wireless service to this DSL. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to retain these customers They are not even giving us a chance to offer them a lower price as they all already have the DSL turned on and been using it for a month before they cancel ours. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Marco C. Coelho Argon Technologies Inc. POB 875 Greenville, TX 75403-0875 903-455-5036 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
That is the purpose of a middle mile BTOP grant... to take you from Ithaca, Syracuse, Binghamton, or Rochester to 60 Hudson St. or 111 8th Ave., New York. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 10:31 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL But He.net isn't in Syracuse so that doesn't do me a whole lot of good. They aren't in Binghamton either. Nor are they in Rochester (which is really too far but is the next closest meet point). Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 11:21 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: He.net will do $1 per Meg with 1 gig minimum commit. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 22:49:09 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I can't use a gig right now. However, to *get* that gig would cost us $7000/month for a wavelength on one provider's new network. Suddenly the gig that I can't really use isn't cheap at all. The costs for what I *do* use would more than double. Even in the carrier hotels in the bigger cities, bandwidth is not available at $1/Mbps. Most quotes, aside from Cogent's end-of-the-year special, are for about $8/Mbps (though that'd be for 100 Mbps scale purchases, not gig purchases). Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: So having a gig transport to $1/megabit transit doesn't deploy access to needed areas? The middle mile could be built wherever. The best middle mile project we could see is a hybrid of fiber and wireless. Mostly fiber with fiber or microwave down to clients. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:04 PM To: char...@knownelement.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL In my experience, (1) the problem for rolling out to a new area IS NOT cost of backhaul, it's the cost of the equipment. Sure we all like cheaper backhaul, but it doesn't prevent a roll out to an unserved area. I'm sure there are exceptions to that-but they are going to be very very rare. (2) the prices I'm seeing for the new backhauls from buildouts funded by NTIA are not cheaper than what already exists in an area. Again, I'm sure there are exceptions, but I'm willing to bet they are also rare. As I'm sure you can figure out, I'm not free to disclose which applications I'm familiar with. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 4:17 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: Citations needed? I have seen many many many posts on this list discussing/complaining about middle mile/back haul issues including access and expense. If the vast majority of wisps have access to sufficient back haul at competive prices then I stand corrected. Do the wisps on this list feel that your back haul needs are being adequately met with existing infestructure? Maybe someone should setup a poll on a website and let wisps vote? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:00:04 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From my direct experience and observation, a lot of the middle mile projects NTIA is funding is really for redundant fiber. Where it isn't redundant it isn't really providing functionality that would help last mile access in the projects I've looked at. Worse, the middle mile projects are NOT being designed intimately with last mile providers. They are going to key community institutions which (1) mostly already have fiber connections and (2) really have no impact on where service is needed for last mile access. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Sometimes being away from the city means you're closer to the place it's produced, ergo, not more expensive. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: Bret Clark Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 11:07 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Sometimes, but with chain stores the saving of groceries in cities helps subsidize the higher shipping cost of groceries in rural areas. Josh Luthman wrote: Just a thought...but does the price of groceries increase when you're farther from an urban area? Obviously the costs are higher (more trucker miles, less productivity) but I wonder if milk isn't another $1 or something. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble char...@knownelement.com wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the subscriber speeds. Just my thoughts. Justin WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
If I'm being charged $7000/month just to get to Syracuse by this new build out, I can't imagine what they'd charge to go to NYC. Chuck On Mar 17, 2010, at 9:02 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: That is the purpose of a middle mile BTOP grant... to take you from Ithaca, Syracuse, Binghamton, or Rochester to 60 Hudson St. or 111 8th Ave., New York. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 10:31 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL But He.net isn't in Syracuse so that doesn't do me a whole lot of good. They aren't in Binghamton either. Nor are they in Rochester (which is really too far but is the next closest meet point). Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 11:21 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: He.net will do $1 per Meg with 1 gig minimum commit. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 22:49:09 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I can't use a gig right now. However, to *get* that gig would cost us $7000/month for a wavelength on one provider's new network. Suddenly the gig that I can't really use isn't cheap at all. The costs for what I *do* use would more than double. Even in the carrier hotels in the bigger cities, bandwidth is not available at $1/Mbps. Most quotes, aside from Cogent's end-of-the-year special, are for about $8/Mbps (though that'd be for 100 Mbps scale purchases, not gig purchases). Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: So having a gig transport to $1/megabit transit doesn't deploy access to needed areas? The middle mile could be built wherever. The best middle mile project we could see is a hybrid of fiber and wireless. Mostly fiber with fiber or microwave down to clients. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:04 PM To: char...@knownelement.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL In my experience, (1) the problem for rolling out to a new area IS NOT cost of backhaul, it's the cost of the equipment. Sure we all like cheaper backhaul, but it doesn't prevent a roll out to an unserved area. I'm sure there are exceptions to that-but they are going to be very very rare. (2) the prices I'm seeing for the new backhauls from buildouts funded by NTIA are not cheaper than what already exists in an area. Again, I'm sure there are exceptions, but I'm willing to bet they are also rare. As I'm sure you can figure out, I'm not free to disclose which applications I'm familiar with. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 4:17 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: Citations needed? I have seen many many many posts on this list discussing/complaining about middle mile/back haul issues including access and expense. If the vast majority of wisps have access to sufficient back haul at competive prices then I stand corrected. Do the wisps on this list feel that your back haul needs are being adequately met with existing infestructure? Maybe someone should setup a poll on a website and let wisps vote? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:00:04 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From my direct experience and observation, a lot of the middle mile projects NTIA is funding is really for redundant fiber. Where it isn't redundant it isn't really providing functionality that would help last mile access in the projects I've looked at. Worse, the middle mile projects are NOT being designed intimately with last mile providers. They are going to key community institutions which (1) mostly already have fiber connections and (2) really have no impact on where service is needed for last mile access. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Apparently your area's applicant is a jerk. :-p - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 10:42 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL If I'm being charged $7000/month just to get to Syracuse by this new build out, I can't imagine what they'd charge to go to NYC. Chuck On Mar 17, 2010, at 9:02 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: That is the purpose of a middle mile BTOP grant... to take you from Ithaca, Syracuse, Binghamton, or Rochester to 60 Hudson St. or 111 8th Ave., New York. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 10:31 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL But He.net isn't in Syracuse so that doesn't do me a whole lot of good. They aren't in Binghamton either. Nor are they in Rochester (which is really too far but is the next closest meet point). Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 11:21 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: He.net will do $1 per Meg with 1 gig minimum commit. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 22:49:09 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I can't use a gig right now. However, to *get* that gig would cost us $7000/month for a wavelength on one provider's new network. Suddenly the gig that I can't really use isn't cheap at all. The costs for what I *do* use would more than double. Even in the carrier hotels in the bigger cities, bandwidth is not available at $1/Mbps. Most quotes, aside from Cogent's end-of-the-year special, are for about $8/Mbps (though that'd be for 100 Mbps scale purchases, not gig purchases). Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: So having a gig transport to $1/megabit transit doesn't deploy access to needed areas? The middle mile could be built wherever. The best middle mile project we could see is a hybrid of fiber and wireless. Mostly fiber with fiber or microwave down to clients. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:04 PM To: char...@knownelement.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL In my experience, (1) the problem for rolling out to a new area IS NOT cost of backhaul, it's the cost of the equipment. Sure we all like cheaper backhaul, but it doesn't prevent a roll out to an unserved area. I'm sure there are exceptions to that-but they are going to be very very rare. (2) the prices I'm seeing for the new backhauls from buildouts funded by NTIA are not cheaper than what already exists in an area. Again, I'm sure there are exceptions, but I'm willing to bet they are also rare. As I'm sure you can figure out, I'm not free to disclose which applications I'm familiar with. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 4:17 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: Citations needed? I have seen many many many posts on this list discussing/complaining about middle mile/back haul issues including access and expense. If the vast majority of wisps have access to sufficient back haul at competive prices then I stand corrected. Do the wisps on this list feel that your back haul needs are being adequately met with existing infestructure? Maybe someone should setup a poll on a website and let wisps vote? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:00:04 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From my direct experience and observation, a lot of the middle mile projects NTIA is funding is really for redundant fiber. Where it isn't redundant it isn't really providing functionality that would help last mile access in the projects I've looked at. Worse, the middle mile projects are NOT being designed intimately with last mile providers. They are going to key community institutions which (1) mostly already have fiber connections and (2) really have no impact on where service is needed for last mile access. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
My bandwidth provider is an example of someone who decided to become that provider neutral middle mile. Not the only game in town, but he's definitely made a huge difference in the ability of a lot of smaller ISP's to become competitive, and he's making decent money, to boot. In my area, it's the cost of transport that's the real cost of bandwidth. I get calls from various providers looking to sell me anywhere from 10 to 30 bucks/meg, but there's no way to cost effectively transport it, due to the long distances. Basically, my provider charges about the same for transport as he does for bandwidth, and his connectivity is pretty good. I've gotten prices from pretty much every b/w provider around over the years, including those that own their own fiber, and he beats them all - not so much due to the cost/meg, but they have enormous colo fees, or insist I buy a local loop to get it to me. There will always be pitfalls to trying to force someone to sell you a service at less than they want to... Best option is for someone to become a regional middle mile like my provider is. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Charles N Wyble char...@www.knownelement.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 4:04 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Bret Clark wrote: Bingo...we have a winner! Middle mile means sqaut when there is a single provider who know they've got you by the you-know-what in terms of pricing. Thank you Bret and Mike for making my point. :) Yes there is fiber just about everywhere, but it comes down to accessibility. Then there is the finger pointing you have to deal with when there is a problem...funny...for some reason's it's never their problem initially until you prove within a shadow of a doubt it is! Hah! Yep. We build our own wireless middle mile and that actually helps us with cost control because we are responsible for the links, also we find that customers like the fact that we have zero reliance on any ILEC. Interesting. Is the purpose of the wireless middle mile to reach a carrier neutral facility? Very intriguing. I've considered doing that here in Los Angeles. Back haul to One Wilshire or something. I have friends with gear on the mountains. Hmmm Bret Mike Hammett wrote: Well yes, ATT, Sprint, Qwest, and Verizon have fiber almost everywhere. That doesn't mean they'll sell you a service that you can cost effectively use. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
EXACTLY! Why would new NTIA backhaul be cheaper? People always charge what the market will bare, build cost has nothing to do with it, when there is no competitions to force better pricing. Its a shame NTIA programs were designed to fund monopoly bandwidth build-out into new communities. The only thing that changes is who gets to be the monopoly entity. And even if it was free interconnection, who pays to get transport to one of the interconnection points? I would argue that transport cost would be just as high as buying transit. I personally think the NTIA projects will only accomplish a few goals in the short term1) it sent a warning to scare the Large Incumbants that they'd be wise to try a bit harder. 2) Get Government venues free broadband from reoccuring perspective, if you ignore the Tax dollar investment. 3) Get bandwdith to an area that really didn't have it before, which is a benefit, even if not at a low price. Even the non-profits, I just dont see any motive for them to lower price to anyone. If a player wasn't involved in the Non-profit at grant writing time for the proposal, without investment contributed, I just dont see how they will be given a free ride to get benefit. This is considering that the Non-profits are made up of board that are ISP competitors. Sure there will be some competitive pressure, now having two carriers in town instead of one, but that on its own probably wont be enough for short term benefit, in my opinion. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com To: char...@knownelement.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 10:04 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL In my experience, (1) the problem for rolling out to a new area IS NOT cost of backhaul, it's the cost of the equipment. Sure we all like cheaper backhaul, but it doesn't prevent a roll out to an unserved area. I'm sure there are exceptions to that-but they are going to be very very rare. (2) the prices I'm seeing for the new backhauls from buildouts funded by NTIA are not cheaper than what already exists in an area. Again, I'm sure there are exceptions, but I'm willing to bet they are also rare. As I'm sure you can figure out, I'm not free to disclose which applications I'm familiar with. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 4:17 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: Citations needed? I have seen many many many posts on this list discussing/complaining about middle mile/back haul issues including access and expense. If the vast majority of wisps have access to sufficient back haul at competive prices then I stand corrected. Do the wisps on this list feel that your back haul needs are being adequately met with existing infestructure? Maybe someone should setup a poll on a website and let wisps vote? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:00:04 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From my direct experience and observation, a lot of the middle mile projects NTIA is funding is really for redundant fiber. Where it isn't redundant it isn't really providing functionality that would help last mile access in the projects I've looked at. Worse, the middle mile projects are NOT being designed intimately with last mile providers. They are going to key community institutions which (1) mostly already have fiber connections and (2) really have no impact on where service is needed for last mile access. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the subscriber speeds. Just my thoughts. Justin
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Mike, Last month, you mentioned that a ARRA project was approved in your neighborhood, and that you will benefit from it. That was great news to hear. I would be interested in hearing exactly how you will benefit. What pricing they'll be offering, etc. If the project will be a success to help WISPs, we should point it out as a case study on how a project can benefit public, if done correctly. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Apparently your area's applicant is a jerk. :-p - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 10:42 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL If I'm being charged $7000/month just to get to Syracuse by this new build out, I can't imagine what they'd charge to go to NYC. Chuck On Mar 17, 2010, at 9:02 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: That is the purpose of a middle mile BTOP grant... to take you from Ithaca, Syracuse, Binghamton, or Rochester to 60 Hudson St. or 111 8th Ave., New York. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 10:31 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL But He.net isn't in Syracuse so that doesn't do me a whole lot of good. They aren't in Binghamton either. Nor are they in Rochester (which is really too far but is the next closest meet point). Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 11:21 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: He.net will do $1 per Meg with 1 gig minimum commit. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 22:49:09 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I can't use a gig right now. However, to *get* that gig would cost us $7000/month for a wavelength on one provider's new network. Suddenly the gig that I can't really use isn't cheap at all. The costs for what I *do* use would more than double. Even in the carrier hotels in the bigger cities, bandwidth is not available at $1/Mbps. Most quotes, aside from Cogent's end-of-the-year special, are for about $8/Mbps (though that'd be for 100 Mbps scale purchases, not gig purchases). Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: So having a gig transport to $1/megabit transit doesn't deploy access to needed areas? The middle mile could be built wherever. The best middle mile project we could see is a hybrid of fiber and wireless. Mostly fiber with fiber or microwave down to clients. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:04 PM To: char...@knownelement.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL In my experience, (1) the problem for rolling out to a new area IS NOT cost of backhaul, it's the cost of the equipment. Sure we all like cheaper backhaul, but it doesn't prevent a roll out to an unserved area. I'm sure there are exceptions to that-but they are going to be very very rare. (2) the prices I'm seeing for the new backhauls from buildouts funded by NTIA are not cheaper than what already exists in an area. Again, I'm sure there are exceptions, but I'm willing to bet they are also rare. As I'm sure you can figure out, I'm not free to disclose which applications I'm familiar with. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 4:17 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: Citations needed? I have seen many many many posts on this list discussing/complaining about middle mile/back haul issues including access and expense. If the vast majority of wisps have access to sufficient back haul at competive prices then I stand corrected. Do the wisps on this list feel that your back haul needs are being adequately met with existing infestructure? Maybe someone should setup a poll on a website and let wisps vote? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:00:04 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Hopefully I don't step on anyone's toes posting this on a public list. I'm assuming that since it was filed with the feds, it'd be public through FoIA or some other request. Any lateral construction done at cost. $300/month for an enterprise grade 100 meg PtP, $600/month for GigE PtP, pricing not yet released for residential circuits. Transit available for $20 - $30/meg. This project puts 130 miles throughout my county. I'm looking to try to pick up some enterprise clients, but this will also enable me to have some redundancy without chewing up spectrum. I'll also use this once I establish a customer base at a new tower. I'm working with another entity for a bigger, state-wide project that would take me into Equinix (and all over the state) for $56/month for 10 meg $118/month for 100 meg, variable GigE PtP pricing, but for my 60 mile drive, it's $871/month to Equinix. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 12:47 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Mike, Last month, you mentioned that a ARRA project was approved in your neighborhood, and that you will benefit from it. That was great news to hear. I would be interested in hearing exactly how you will benefit. What pricing they'll be offering, etc. If the project will be a success to help WISPs, we should point it out as a case study on how a project can benefit public, if done correctly. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Apparently your area's applicant is a jerk. :-p - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 10:42 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL If I'm being charged $7000/month just to get to Syracuse by this new build out, I can't imagine what they'd charge to go to NYC. Chuck On Mar 17, 2010, at 9:02 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: That is the purpose of a middle mile BTOP grant... to take you from Ithaca, Syracuse, Binghamton, or Rochester to 60 Hudson St. or 111 8th Ave., New York. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 10:31 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL But He.net isn't in Syracuse so that doesn't do me a whole lot of good. They aren't in Binghamton either. Nor are they in Rochester (which is really too far but is the next closest meet point). Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 11:21 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: He.net will do $1 per Meg with 1 gig minimum commit. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 22:49:09 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I can't use a gig right now. However, to *get* that gig would cost us $7000/month for a wavelength on one provider's new network. Suddenly the gig that I can't really use isn't cheap at all. The costs for what I *do* use would more than double. Even in the carrier hotels in the bigger cities, bandwidth is not available at $1/Mbps. Most quotes, aside from Cogent's end-of-the-year special, are for about $8/Mbps (though that'd be for 100 Mbps scale purchases, not gig purchases). Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: So having a gig transport to $1/megabit transit doesn't deploy access to needed areas? The middle mile could be built wherever. The best middle mile project we could see is a hybrid of fiber and wireless. Mostly fiber with fiber or microwave down to clients. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:04 PM To: char...@knownelement.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL In my experience, (1) the problem for rolling out to a new area IS NOT cost of backhaul, it's the cost of the equipment. Sure we all like cheaper backhaul, but it doesn't prevent a roll out to an unserved area. I'm sure there are exceptions to that-but they are going to be very very rare. (2) the prices I'm seeing
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
6 Meg DSL here is around $50/month Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 1:15 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL One of the things you have to keep in mind, is that you really do have to offer your customers a decent value for their dollars.35 Bux for a fraction of a meg is darn steep pricing these days. We offer a 300K for 25 and 2 meg for 38.50, which is reasonably competitive. You don't' need to be the cheapest to be competitive, but you can't be way outside of normal pricing. I'm thinking of throwing up some MIMO gear and offering something like a 7 meg service.Was thinking of making it about 75 / mo.Not the cheapest. Not the most expensive, either. What would 7 meg be in your area? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 8:05 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person said as long as you have it they will not raise the rate from $15. Think its for 768k service. Anyways we are getting about 1 person a day switching from our $35/month/768k wireless service to this DSL. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to retain these customers They are not even giving us a chance to offer them a lower price as they all already have the DSL turned on and been using it for a month before they cancel ours. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 07:41, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: 6 Meg DSL here is around $50/month At home, I have 6Mbps DSL for $35/month. (Yes, I work for a WISP, but still have DSL, because my last three apartments were out of my employer's coverage area due to terrain and trees.) WISPs rarely can compete purely on price, and those who try may be dooming themselves to an early demise. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
For the WISP that is still charging $30+ for 384k service, what are you doing to bring those customers more bang for their buck? Are you trying to increase speeds or bring pricing down? Richey -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 10:28 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 07:41, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: 6 Meg DSL here is around $50/month At home, I have 6Mbps DSL for $35/month. (Yes, I work for a WISP, but still have DSL, because my last three apartments were out of my employer's coverage area due to terrain and trees.) WISPs rarely can compete purely on price, and those who try may be dooming themselves to an early demise. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
If they want local DSL service, then they can pay for that. We focus on outside areas, however, there is also areas around here that the DSL service goes up and down more than a porn star. Hence, we end up being more reliable. We have customers also that just hate ATT, hence, they would rather pay us then ATT. We also have Local support, and that is a big plus, especially for businesses anyways. --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, Mikrotik Certified Trainer, MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCUME Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training - Author of Learn RouterOS -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Richey Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 10:53 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL For the WISP that is still charging $30+ for 384k service, what are you doing to bring those customers more bang for their buck? Are you trying to increase speeds or bring pricing down? Richey -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 10:28 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 07:41, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: 6 Meg DSL here is around $50/month At home, I have 6Mbps DSL for $35/month. (Yes, I work for a WISP, but still have DSL, because my last three apartments were out of my employer's coverage area due to terrain and trees.) WISPs rarely can compete purely on price, and those who try may be dooming themselves to an early demise. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
BTW, I did not mean to offend anyone with my colorful analogy. Just realized what I typed after hitting send! If it don't offend you, enjoy a bit of humor. --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, Mikrotik Certified Trainer, MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCUME Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training - Author of Learn RouterOS -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Richey Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 10:53 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL For the WISP that is still charging $30+ for 384k service, what are you doing to bring those customers more bang for their buck? Are you trying to increase speeds or bring pricing down? Richey -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 10:28 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 07:41, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: 6 Meg DSL here is around $50/month At home, I have 6Mbps DSL for $35/month. (Yes, I work for a WISP, but still have DSL, because my last three apartments were out of my employer's coverage area due to terrain and trees.) WISPs rarely can compete purely on price, and those who try may be dooming themselves to an early demise. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the subscriber speeds. Just my thoughts. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://j2sw.mtin.net/blog From: Richey myli...@battleop.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 11:52:59 -0400 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL For the WISP that is still charging $30+ for 384k service, what are you doing to bring those customers more bang for their buck? Are you trying to increase speeds or bring pricing down? Richey -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 10:28 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 07:41, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: 6 Meg DSL here is around $50/month At home, I have 6Mbps DSL for $35/month. (Yes, I work for a WISP, but still have DSL, because my last three apartments were out of my employer's coverage area due to terrain and trees.) WISPs rarely can compete purely on price, and those who try may be dooming themselves to an early demise. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the subscriber speeds. Just my thoughts. Justin WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Exactly. That is what NewWays did. Our old plans on T1 or other smaller pipe were: 384K $33.00 512K $45.00 Now that we have a 50M fiber to a tower our plans are: 1M $35.00 2M $48.00 Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the subscriber speeds. Just my thoughts. Justin -- Scott Reed Owner NewWays Networking, LLC Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration Mikrotik Advanced Certified www.nwwnet.net (765) 855-1060 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Just a thought...but does the price of groceries increase when you're farther from an urban area? Obviously the costs are higher (more trucker miles, less productivity) but I wonder if milk isn't another $1 or something. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble char...@knownelement.com wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the subscriber speeds. Just my thoughts. Justin WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Sometimes, but with chain stores the saving of groceries in cities helps subsidize the higher shipping cost of groceries in rural areas. Josh Luthman wrote: Just a thought...but does the price of groceries increase when you're farther from an urban area? Obviously the costs are higher (more trucker miles, less productivity) but I wonder if milk isn't another $1 or something. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble char...@knownelement.com wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the subscriber speeds. Just my thoughts. Justin WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From my direct experience and observation, a lot of the middle mile projects NTIA is funding is really for redundant fiber. Where it isn't redundant it isn't really providing functionality that would help last mile access in the projects I've looked at. Worse, the middle mile projects are NOT being designed intimately with last mile providers. They are going to key community institutions which (1) mostly already have fiber connections and (2) really have no impact on where service is needed for last mile access. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the subscriber speeds. Just my thoughts. Justin WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Citations needed? I have seen many many many posts on this list discussing/complaining about middle mile/back haul issues including access and expense. If the vast majority of wisps have access to sufficient back haul at competive prices then I stand corrected. Do the wisps on this list feel that your back haul needs are being adequately met with existing infestructure? Maybe someone should setup a poll on a website and let wisps vote? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:00:04 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From my direct experience and observation, a lot of the middle mile projects NTIA is funding is really for redundant fiber. Where it isn't redundant it isn't really providing functionality that would help last mile access in the projects I've looked at. Worse, the middle mile projects are NOT being designed intimately with last mile providers. They are going to key community institutions which (1) mostly already have fiber connections and (2) really have no impact on where service is needed for last mile access. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the subscriber speeds. Just my thoughts. Justin WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
In my area the middle mile being built is exactly for institutions with a minor mention that they would sell bandwidth to providers. But the main push is for the institutions. Middle mile for whom? Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of char...@knownelement.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 4:17 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Citations needed? I have seen many many many posts on this list discussing/complaining about middle mile/back haul issues including access and expense. If the vast majority of wisps have access to sufficient back haul at competive prices then I stand corrected. Do the wisps on this list feel that your back haul needs are being adequately met with existing infestructure? Maybe someone should setup a poll on a website and let wisps vote? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:00:04 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From my direct experience and observation, a lot of the middle mile projects NTIA is funding is really for redundant fiber. Where it isn't redundant it isn't really providing functionality that would help last mile access in the projects I've looked at. Worse, the middle mile projects are NOT being designed intimately with last mile providers. They are going to key community institutions which (1) mostly already have fiber connections and (2) really have no impact on where service is needed for last mile access. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the subscriber speeds. Just my thoughts. Justin WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
The grant that I'm benefiting from is primarily for the anchor institutions, but they worked with multiple ISPs right off the bat. I have fiber coming into my network from this. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 3:47 PM To: char...@knownelement.com; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL In my area the middle mile being built is exactly for institutions with a minor mention that they would sell bandwidth to providers. But the main push is for the institutions. Middle mile for whom? Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of char...@knownelement.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 4:17 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Citations needed? I have seen many many many posts on this list discussing/complaining about middle mile/back haul issues including access and expense. If the vast majority of wisps have access to sufficient back haul at competive prices then I stand corrected. Do the wisps on this list feel that your back haul needs are being adequately met with existing infestructure? Maybe someone should setup a poll on a website and let wisps vote? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:00:04 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From my direct experience and observation, a lot of the middle mile projects NTIA is funding is really for redundant fiber. Where it isn't redundant it isn't really providing functionality that would help last mile access in the projects I've looked at. Worse, the middle mile projects are NOT being designed intimately with last mile providers. They are going to key community institutions which (1) mostly already have fiber connections and (2) really have no impact on where service is needed for last mile access. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the subscriber speeds. Just my thoughts. Justin WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Well yes, ATT, Sprint, Qwest, and Verizon have fiber almost everywhere. That doesn't mean they'll sell you a service that you can cost effectively use. It's too bad the feds didn't require cooperation with all area ISPs in each application done by a public entity. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 3:00 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From my direct experience and observation, a lot of the middle mile projects NTIA is funding is really for redundant fiber. Where it isn't redundant it isn't really providing functionality that would help last mile access in the projects I've looked at. Worse, the middle mile projects are NOT being designed intimately with last mile providers. They are going to key community institutions which (1) mostly already have fiber connections and (2) really have no impact on where service is needed for last mile access. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the subscriber speeds. Just my thoughts. Justin WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Bingo...we have a winner! Middle mile means sqaut when there is a single provider who know they've got you by the you-know-what in terms of pricing. Then there is the finger pointing you have to deal with when there is a problem...funny...for some reason's it's never their problem initially until you prove within a shadow of a doubt it is! We build our own wireless middle mile and that actually helps us with cost control because we are responsible for the links, also we find that customers like the fact that we have zero reliance on any ILEC. Bret Mike Hammett wrote: Well yes, ATT, Sprint, Qwest, and Verizon have fiber almost everywhere. That doesn't mean they'll sell you a service that you can cost effectively use. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Bret Clark wrote: Bingo...we have a winner! Middle mile means sqaut when there is a single provider who know they've got you by the you-know-what in terms of pricing. Thank you Bret and Mike for making my point. :) Yes there is fiber just about everywhere, but it comes down to accessibility. Then there is the finger pointing you have to deal with when there is a problem...funny...for some reason's it's never their problem initially until you prove within a shadow of a doubt it is! Hah! Yep. We build our own wireless middle mile and that actually helps us with cost control because we are responsible for the links, also we find that customers like the fact that we have zero reliance on any ILEC. Interesting. Is the purpose of the wireless middle mile to reach a carrier neutral facility? Very intriguing. I've considered doing that here in Los Angeles. Back haul to One Wilshire or something. I have friends with gear on the mountains. Hmmm Bret Mike Hammett wrote: Well yes, ATT, Sprint, Qwest, and Verizon have fiber almost everywhere. That doesn't mean they'll sell you a service that you can cost effectively use. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Charles N Wyble wrote: Interesting. Is the purpose of the wireless middle mile to reach a carrier neutral facility? Very intriguing. I've considered doing that here in Los Angeles. Back haul to One Wilshire or something. I have friends with gear on the mountains. Hmmm Yup...we're running several wireless links (for redundancy) to a peering point (CLEC Hotel) then interconnect at that location to the Internet through various BGP interconnections with peer 1 and local CLEC's for short dollars. We found no issues with building management letting us put up our antenna's on the roofs. Bret WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Yup...we're running several wireless links (for redundancy) to a peering point (CLEC Hotel) then interconnect at that location to the Internet through various BGP interconnections with peer 1 and local CLEC's for short dollars. We found no issues with building management letting us put up our antenna's on the roofs. How long are your wireless links to the CLEC hotel? Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Fortunately we are close to the CLEC hotel...about 2 mile links using Ceregon's and DragonWave for the connections and fail-over redundancy. At the CLEC hotel we collocate some edge BGP routers and use OSPF in the backbone for fail-over. Bret Tim Sylvester wrote: Yup...we're running several wireless links (for redundancy) to a peering point (CLEC Hotel) then interconnect at that location to the Internet through various BGP interconnections with peer 1 and local CLEC's for short dollars. We found no issues with building management letting us put up our antenna's on the roofs. How long are your wireless links to the CLEC hotel? Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
In my experience, (1) the problem for rolling out to a new area IS NOT cost of backhaul, it's the cost of the equipment. Sure we all like cheaper backhaul, but it doesn't prevent a roll out to an unserved area. I'm sure there are exceptions to that-but they are going to be very very rare. (2) the prices I'm seeing for the new backhauls from buildouts funded by NTIA are not cheaper than what already exists in an area. Again, I'm sure there are exceptions, but I'm willing to bet they are also rare. As I'm sure you can figure out, I'm not free to disclose which applications I'm familiar with. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 4:17 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: Citations needed? I have seen many many many posts on this list discussing/complaining about middle mile/back haul issues including access and expense. If the vast majority of wisps have access to sufficient back haul at competive prices then I stand corrected. Do the wisps on this list feel that your back haul needs are being adequately met with existing infestructure? Maybe someone should setup a poll on a website and let wisps vote? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:00:04 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From my direct experience and observation, a lot of the middle mile projects NTIA is funding is really for redundant fiber. Where it isn't redundant it isn't really providing functionality that would help last mile access in the projects I've looked at. Worse, the middle mile projects are NOT being designed intimately with last mile providers. They are going to key community institutions which (1) mostly already have fiber connections and (2) really have no impact on where service is needed for last mile access. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the subscriber speeds. Just my thoughts. Justin WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
That's what we did. $24.95/mo gets you 12Mbps/6Mbps. $49.95/mo gets you 20Mbps/6Mbps. We guarantee minimums--not just an up to speed. A lot of people really like that too. Our packages: www.peakinter.net On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:14 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: One of the things you have to keep in mind, is that you really do have to offer your customers a decent value for their dollars.35 Bux for a fraction of a meg is darn steep pricing these days. We offer a 300K for 25 and 2 meg for 38.50, which is reasonably competitive. You don't' need to be the cheapest to be competitive, but you can't be way outside of normal pricing. I'm thinking of throwing up some MIMO gear and offering something like a 7 meg service.Was thinking of making it about 75 / mo.Not the cheapest. Not the most expensive, either. What would 7 meg be in your area? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 8:05 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person said as long as you have it they will not raise the rate from $15. Think its for 768k service. Anyways we are getting about 1 person a day switching from our $35/month/768k wireless service to this DSL. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to retain these customers They are not even giving us a chance to offer them a lower price as they all already have the DSL turned on and been using it for a month before they cancel ours. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Chuck Bartosch wrote: In my experience, (1) the problem for rolling out to a new area IS NOT cost of backhaul, it's the cost of the equipment. Sure we all like cheaper backhaul, but it doesn't prevent a roll out to an unserved area. I'm sure there are exceptions to that-but they are going to be very very rare. Yeah good gear is a tad on the expensive side. Especially with people wanting free installs. What break down do you see of free gear with minimum contact, or buy gear up front and get refund do you see with the WISPs you work with. Or are other business models in play? If so what are they? I know there have been many threads on the list about leasing/financing. So getting good gear with excellent terms seems to come down to personal choice, more then cost. (2) the prices I'm seeing for the new backhauls from buildouts funded by NTIA are not cheaper than what already exists in an area. Again, I'm sure there are exceptions, but I'm willing to bet they are also rare. Well that's no surprise. :) Perhaps some of the money could have been spent on funding lobbying for changes to access rules? If there is readily accessible fiber everywhere, (key words being readily accessible) then why does it seem to be such a problem for folks to access? As I'm sure you can figure out, I'm not free to disclose which applications I'm familiar with. Ah... so if we had access to all the information/facts you did we would see things the same way. Hmmm sorry not buying it. There have been a substantial amount of threads on this list about middle mile issues being a huge problem. Cost/access/tower colo etc. Chuck WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
So having a gig transport to $1/megabit transit doesn't deploy access to needed areas? The middle mile could be built wherever. The best middle mile project we could see is a hybrid of fiber and wireless. Mostly fiber with fiber or microwave down to clients. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:04 PM To: char...@knownelement.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL In my experience, (1) the problem for rolling out to a new area IS NOT cost of backhaul, it's the cost of the equipment. Sure we all like cheaper backhaul, but it doesn't prevent a roll out to an unserved area. I'm sure there are exceptions to that-but they are going to be very very rare. (2) the prices I'm seeing for the new backhauls from buildouts funded by NTIA are not cheaper than what already exists in an area. Again, I'm sure there are exceptions, but I'm willing to bet they are also rare. As I'm sure you can figure out, I'm not free to disclose which applications I'm familiar with. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 4:17 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: Citations needed? I have seen many many many posts on this list discussing/complaining about middle mile/back haul issues including access and expense. If the vast majority of wisps have access to sufficient back haul at competive prices then I stand corrected. Do the wisps on this list feel that your back haul needs are being adequately met with existing infestructure? Maybe someone should setup a poll on a website and let wisps vote? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:00:04 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From my direct experience and observation, a lot of the middle mile projects NTIA is funding is really for redundant fiber. Where it isn't redundant it isn't really providing functionality that would help last mile access in the projects I've looked at. Worse, the middle mile projects are NOT being designed intimately with last mile providers. They are going to key community institutions which (1) mostly already have fiber connections and (2) really have no impact on where service is needed for last mile access. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the subscriber speeds. Just my thoughts. Justin WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
I can't use a gig right now. However, to *get* that gig would cost us $7000/month for a wavelength on one provider's new network. Suddenly the gig that I can't really use isn't cheap at all. The costs for what I *do* use would more than double. Even in the carrier hotels in the bigger cities, bandwidth is not available at $1/Mbps. Most quotes, aside from Cogent's end-of-the-year special, are for about $8/Mbps (though that'd be for 100 Mbps scale purchases, not gig purchases). Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: So having a gig transport to $1/megabit transit doesn't deploy access to needed areas? The middle mile could be built wherever. The best middle mile project we could see is a hybrid of fiber and wireless. Mostly fiber with fiber or microwave down to clients. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:04 PM To: char...@knownelement.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL In my experience, (1) the problem for rolling out to a new area IS NOT cost of backhaul, it's the cost of the equipment. Sure we all like cheaper backhaul, but it doesn't prevent a roll out to an unserved area. I'm sure there are exceptions to that-but they are going to be very very rare. (2) the prices I'm seeing for the new backhauls from buildouts funded by NTIA are not cheaper than what already exists in an area. Again, I'm sure there are exceptions, but I'm willing to bet they are also rare. As I'm sure you can figure out, I'm not free to disclose which applications I'm familiar with. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 4:17 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: Citations needed? I have seen many many many posts on this list discussing/complaining about middle mile/back haul issues including access and expense. If the vast majority of wisps have access to sufficient back haul at competive prices then I stand corrected. Do the wisps on this list feel that your back haul needs are being adequately met with existing infestructure? Maybe someone should setup a poll on a website and let wisps vote? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:00:04 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From my direct experience and observation, a lot of the middle mile projects NTIA is funding is really for redundant fiber. Where it isn't redundant it isn't really providing functionality that would help last mile access in the projects I've looked at. Worse, the middle mile projects are NOT being designed intimately with last mile providers. They are going to key community institutions which (1) mostly already have fiber connections and (2) really have no impact on where service is needed for last mile access. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the subscriber speeds. Just my thoughts. Justin WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
That middle mile would bring that $1 megabit to you more affordably. If a middle mile project that I'm working with goes through, I'll have $871/month transport for 1 gigabit 60 driving miles into 350 Cermak, one of the top 4 or 5 connected buildings in the country. Yes, I have personally received multiple $1 and below quotes and I haven't been as proactive as others on this list have been. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:49 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I can't use a gig right now. However, to *get* that gig would cost us $7000/month for a wavelength on one provider's new network. Suddenly the gig that I can't really use isn't cheap at all. The costs for what I *do* use would more than double. Even in the carrier hotels in the bigger cities, bandwidth is not available at $1/Mbps. Most quotes, aside from Cogent's end-of-the-year special, are for about $8/Mbps (though that'd be for 100 Mbps scale purchases, not gig purchases). Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: So having a gig transport to $1/megabit transit doesn't deploy access to needed areas? The middle mile could be built wherever. The best middle mile project we could see is a hybrid of fiber and wireless. Mostly fiber with fiber or microwave down to clients. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:04 PM To: char...@knownelement.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL In my experience, (1) the problem for rolling out to a new area IS NOT cost of backhaul, it's the cost of the equipment. Sure we all like cheaper backhaul, but it doesn't prevent a roll out to an unserved area. I'm sure there are exceptions to that-but they are going to be very very rare. (2) the prices I'm seeing for the new backhauls from buildouts funded by NTIA are not cheaper than what already exists in an area. Again, I'm sure there are exceptions, but I'm willing to bet they are also rare. As I'm sure you can figure out, I'm not free to disclose which applications I'm familiar with. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 4:17 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: Citations needed? I have seen many many many posts on this list discussing/complaining about middle mile/back haul issues including access and expense. If the vast majority of wisps have access to sufficient back haul at competive prices then I stand corrected. Do the wisps on this list feel that your back haul needs are being adequately met with existing infestructure? Maybe someone should setup a poll on a website and let wisps vote? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:00:04 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From my direct experience and observation, a lot of the middle mile projects NTIA is funding is really for redundant fiber. Where it isn't redundant it isn't really providing functionality that would help last mile access in the projects I've looked at. Worse, the middle mile projects are NOT being designed intimately with last mile providers. They are going to key community institutions which (1) mostly already have fiber connections and (2) really have no impact on where service is needed for last mile access. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
On Mar 16, 2010, at 10:49 PM, Chuck Bartosch wrote: I can't use a gig right now. However, to *get* that gig would cost us $7000/month for a wavelength on one provider's new network. Suddenly the gig that I can't really use isn't cheap at all. The costs for what I *do* use would more than double. Even in the carrier hotels in the bigger cities, bandwidth is not available at $1/Mbps. I meant in our area by the way (I'm sure that was obvious, but just in case). Chuck Most quotes, aside from Cogent's end-of-the-year special, are for about $8/Mbps (though that'd be for 100 Mbps scale purchases, not gig purchases). Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: So having a gig transport to $1/megabit transit doesn't deploy access to needed areas? The middle mile could be built wherever. The best middle mile project we could see is a hybrid of fiber and wireless. Mostly fiber with fiber or microwave down to clients. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:04 PM To: char...@knownelement.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL In my experience, (1) the problem for rolling out to a new area IS NOT cost of backhaul, it's the cost of the equipment. Sure we all like cheaper backhaul, but it doesn't prevent a roll out to an unserved area. I'm sure there are exceptions to that-but they are going to be very very rare. (2) the prices I'm seeing for the new backhauls from buildouts funded by NTIA are not cheaper than what already exists in an area. Again, I'm sure there are exceptions, but I'm willing to bet they are also rare. As I'm sure you can figure out, I'm not free to disclose which applications I'm familiar with. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 4:17 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: Citations needed? I have seen many many many posts on this list discussing/complaining about middle mile/back haul issues including access and expense. If the vast majority of wisps have access to sufficient back haul at competive prices then I stand corrected. Do the wisps on this list feel that your back haul needs are being adequately met with existing infestructure? Maybe someone should setup a poll on a website and let wisps vote? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:00:04 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From my direct experience and observation, a lot of the middle mile projects NTIA is funding is really for redundant fiber. Where it isn't redundant it isn't really providing functionality that would help last mile access in the projects I've looked at. Worse, the middle mile projects are NOT being designed intimately with last mile providers. They are going to key community institutions which (1) mostly already have fiber connections and (2) really have no impact on where service is needed for last mile access. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the subscriber speeds. Just my thoughts. Justin WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Right, I've been as proactive as anyone. However, in our regional rate centers those prices simply are not available. And the transport you're being quoted is 1/10th the rate we're seeing-for a similar distance I might add. And that's from one of the Round 1 winners. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 10:56 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: That middle mile would bring that $1 megabit to you more affordably. If a middle mile project that I'm working with goes through, I'll have $871/month transport for 1 gigabit 60 driving miles into 350 Cermak, one of the top 4 or 5 connected buildings in the country. Yes, I have personally received multiple $1 and below quotes and I haven't been as proactive as others on this list have been. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:49 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I can't use a gig right now. However, to *get* that gig would cost us $7000/month for a wavelength on one provider's new network. Suddenly the gig that I can't really use isn't cheap at all. The costs for what I *do* use would more than double. Even in the carrier hotels in the bigger cities, bandwidth is not available at $1/Mbps. Most quotes, aside from Cogent's end-of-the-year special, are for about $8/Mbps (though that'd be for 100 Mbps scale purchases, not gig purchases). Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: So having a gig transport to $1/megabit transit doesn't deploy access to needed areas? The middle mile could be built wherever. The best middle mile project we could see is a hybrid of fiber and wireless. Mostly fiber with fiber or microwave down to clients. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:04 PM To: char...@knownelement.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL In my experience, (1) the problem for rolling out to a new area IS NOT cost of backhaul, it's the cost of the equipment. Sure we all like cheaper backhaul, but it doesn't prevent a roll out to an unserved area. I'm sure there are exceptions to that-but they are going to be very very rare. (2) the prices I'm seeing for the new backhauls from buildouts funded by NTIA are not cheaper than what already exists in an area. Again, I'm sure there are exceptions, but I'm willing to bet they are also rare. As I'm sure you can figure out, I'm not free to disclose which applications I'm familiar with. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 4:17 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: Citations needed? I have seen many many many posts on this list discussing/complaining about middle mile/back haul issues including access and expense. If the vast majority of wisps have access to sufficient back haul at competive prices then I stand corrected. Do the wisps on this list feel that your back haul needs are being adequately met with existing infestructure? Maybe someone should setup a poll on a website and let wisps vote? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:00:04 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From my direct experience and observation, a lot of the middle mile projects NTIA is funding is really for redundant fiber. Where it isn't redundant it isn't really providing functionality that would help last mile access in the projects I've looked at. Worse, the middle mile projects are NOT being designed intimately with last mile providers. They are going to key community institutions which (1) mostly already have fiber connections and (2) really have no impact on where service is needed for last mile access. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
He.net will do $1 per Meg with 1 gig minimum commit. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 22:49:09 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I can't use a gig right now. However, to *get* that gig would cost us $7000/month for a wavelength on one provider's new network. Suddenly the gig that I can't really use isn't cheap at all. The costs for what I *do* use would more than double. Even in the carrier hotels in the bigger cities, bandwidth is not available at $1/Mbps. Most quotes, aside from Cogent's end-of-the-year special, are for about $8/Mbps (though that'd be for 100 Mbps scale purchases, not gig purchases). Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: So having a gig transport to $1/megabit transit doesn't deploy access to needed areas? The middle mile could be built wherever. The best middle mile project we could see is a hybrid of fiber and wireless. Mostly fiber with fiber or microwave down to clients. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:04 PM To: char...@knownelement.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL In my experience, (1) the problem for rolling out to a new area IS NOT cost of backhaul, it's the cost of the equipment. Sure we all like cheaper backhaul, but it doesn't prevent a roll out to an unserved area. I'm sure there are exceptions to that-but they are going to be very very rare. (2) the prices I'm seeing for the new backhauls from buildouts funded by NTIA are not cheaper than what already exists in an area. Again, I'm sure there are exceptions, but I'm willing to bet they are also rare. As I'm sure you can figure out, I'm not free to disclose which applications I'm familiar with. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 4:17 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: Citations needed? I have seen many many many posts on this list discussing/complaining about middle mile/back haul issues including access and expense. If the vast majority of wisps have access to sufficient back haul at competive prices then I stand corrected. Do the wisps on this list feel that your back haul needs are being adequately met with existing infestructure? Maybe someone should setup a poll on a website and let wisps vote? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:00:04 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From my direct experience and observation, a lot of the middle mile projects NTIA is funding is really for redundant fiber. Where it isn't redundant it isn't really providing functionality that would help last mile access in the projects I've looked at. Worse, the middle mile projects are NOT being designed intimately with last mile providers. They are going to key community institutions which (1) mostly already have fiber connections and (2) really have no impact on where service is needed for last mile access. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the subscriber speeds. Just my thoughts. Justin WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
But He.net isn't in Syracuse so that doesn't do me a whole lot of good. They aren't in Binghamton either. Nor are they in Rochester (which is really too far but is the next closest meet point). Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 11:21 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: He.net will do $1 per Meg with 1 gig minimum commit. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 22:49:09 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I can't use a gig right now. However, to *get* that gig would cost us $7000/month for a wavelength on one provider's new network. Suddenly the gig that I can't really use isn't cheap at all. The costs for what I *do* use would more than double. Even in the carrier hotels in the bigger cities, bandwidth is not available at $1/Mbps. Most quotes, aside from Cogent's end-of-the-year special, are for about $8/Mbps (though that'd be for 100 Mbps scale purchases, not gig purchases). Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: So having a gig transport to $1/megabit transit doesn't deploy access to needed areas? The middle mile could be built wherever. The best middle mile project we could see is a hybrid of fiber and wireless. Mostly fiber with fiber or microwave down to clients. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:04 PM To: char...@knownelement.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL In my experience, (1) the problem for rolling out to a new area IS NOT cost of backhaul, it's the cost of the equipment. Sure we all like cheaper backhaul, but it doesn't prevent a roll out to an unserved area. I'm sure there are exceptions to that-but they are going to be very very rare. (2) the prices I'm seeing for the new backhauls from buildouts funded by NTIA are not cheaper than what already exists in an area. Again, I'm sure there are exceptions, but I'm willing to bet they are also rare. As I'm sure you can figure out, I'm not free to disclose which applications I'm familiar with. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 4:17 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: Citations needed? I have seen many many many posts on this list discussing/complaining about middle mile/back haul issues including access and expense. If the vast majority of wisps have access to sufficient back haul at competive prices then I stand corrected. Do the wisps on this list feel that your back haul needs are being adequately met with existing infestructure? Maybe someone should setup a poll on a website and let wisps vote? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:00:04 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From my direct experience and observation, a lot of the middle mile projects NTIA is funding is really for redundant fiber. Where it isn't redundant it isn't really providing functionality that would help last mile access in the projects I've looked at. Worse, the middle mile projects are NOT being designed intimately with last mile providers. They are going to key community institutions which (1) mostly already have fiber connections and (2) really have no impact on where service is needed for last mile access. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my area a T1 is still around $450 a month. Get 4 bonded t1s and you are looking at $300 a meg. If you had access to fiber and your transport + bandwidth cost you say $75 a meg you could afford to up the subscriber speeds. Just my thoughts. Justin
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Just saying there are $1.00 mbps providers available. 4.00 is pretty common as well. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 23:31:14 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL But He.net isn't in Syracuse so that doesn't do me a whole lot of good. They aren't in Binghamton either. Nor are they in Rochester (which is really too far but is the next closest meet point). Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 11:21 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: He.net will do $1 per Meg with 1 gig minimum commit. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 22:49:09 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I can't use a gig right now. However, to *get* that gig would cost us $7000/month for a wavelength on one provider's new network. Suddenly the gig that I can't really use isn't cheap at all. The costs for what I *do* use would more than double. Even in the carrier hotels in the bigger cities, bandwidth is not available at $1/Mbps. Most quotes, aside from Cogent's end-of-the-year special, are for about $8/Mbps (though that'd be for 100 Mbps scale purchases, not gig purchases). Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: So having a gig transport to $1/megabit transit doesn't deploy access to needed areas? The middle mile could be built wherever. The best middle mile project we could see is a hybrid of fiber and wireless. Mostly fiber with fiber or microwave down to clients. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:04 PM To: char...@knownelement.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL In my experience, (1) the problem for rolling out to a new area IS NOT cost of backhaul, it's the cost of the equipment. Sure we all like cheaper backhaul, but it doesn't prevent a roll out to an unserved area. I'm sure there are exceptions to that-but they are going to be very very rare. (2) the prices I'm seeing for the new backhauls from buildouts funded by NTIA are not cheaper than what already exists in an area. Again, I'm sure there are exceptions, but I'm willing to bet they are also rare. As I'm sure you can figure out, I'm not free to disclose which applications I'm familiar with. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 4:17 PM, char...@knownelement.com wrote: Citations needed? I have seen many many many posts on this list discussing/complaining about middle mile/back haul issues including access and expense. If the vast majority of wisps have access to sufficient back haul at competive prices then I stand corrected. Do the wisps on this list feel that your back haul needs are being adequately met with existing infestructure? Maybe someone should setup a poll on a website and let wisps vote? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:00:04 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL I think largely the middle mile funds are wasted. Most areas already have at least *some* fiber. The cost, and the problem, is in getting last mile done, not middle mile done. From my direct experience and observation, a lot of the middle mile projects NTIA is funding is really for redundant fiber. Where it isn't redundant it isn't really providing functionality that would help last mile access in the projects I've looked at. Worse, the middle mile projects are NOT being designed intimately with last mile providers. They are going to key community institutions which (1) mostly already have fiber connections and (2) really have no impact on where service is needed for last mile access. Chuck On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Charles N Wyble wrote: This is why I have said that the stimulus dollars need to go to middle milte build outs. Wireless as a last mile medium is very well understood and gives best bang for the buck in a lot of scenarios. Justin Wilson wrote: I think part of the issue is economies of scale. Many rural ISPs have T1s and T3s at best. The cost of transport and bandwidth doesn¹t allow them to scale as well as they could if they had fiber or some other high capacity transport. With providers such as Cogent well under $10 a meg in bulk you can afford to up the speed (providing your network can support it) if you have access to such things. I have seen several providers start offering better speeds once they had access to a bigger pipe. I know in my
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
If you are competing on price alone you will always be chasing the customer. The telco has deep pockets. Providing DSL to the customer is secondary to them. They are more interested in the subsidy they get from that line, and adding a number for the next lobby opportunity. There are several things that can help retain and attract new customers. 1.Customer Service. Do a better job than the competition. 2.Keep the customer a part of the ³family². This means newsletters and other ways of personalizing your business. Customers are more likely to switch away if you become just another company to them. Personalizing your company, your staff, and what you do connects with the customer. Take time to update the company blog, send out press releases, or whatever.Keep your company in front of the customer. 3.Make your product something unique and something they feel they can¹t get anywhere else. Things like a member¹s only section of the web-site, maybe a slick looking webmail interface, or tutorials on how to use their mobile phone to get their e-mail with you. 4. Be as professional as you can. Folks notice things like how the installer is dressed, if they have the right tools, and generally know what they are doing. Things like company shirts and booties when you walk into a customer¹s house after being in their crawl space make an impression. 5.Give them relevant service. If you have several levels of service have one for the average Joe. Not everyone needs 5 meg down. Many people want to go to a few web-sites, download some pictures, and piddle around a little. These customers aren¹t chasing the latest greatest. They are looking for something that is reliable and comfortable for them. If you do 1-4 above they will be happy. You will always have the people who chase the best deal. These are normally the people who are slow payers, cost you the most in support, and are generally a PITA. These are the same people who will say ³I feel bad for switching, but insert lame excuse here². As a business owner customers should want and need your service over the DSL competitor. Unfortunately that sometimes means sending a tech out on a Sunday night to fix a radio. Contracts are a good idea in another subtle way. It gives you a chance to call that customer before the contract expires and see how the service is and get feedback. Also gives you a chance to either retain them if they are thinking of switching, or upselling them on another product. When I was at a dial-up ISP years ago we started the policy of calling every new customer back after a week. Just seeing how they liked the service, and any issues. It was an amazing success. Took some time, but we worked it in on slow days. If the week was not slow we pulled a tech off for a few hours to get caught up on the callbacks. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net CCNA CCNT Mikrotik Advanced http://j2sw.mtin.net/blog From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 11:05:28 -0400 To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person said as long as you have it they will not raise the rate from $15. Think its for 768k service. Anyways we are getting about 1 person a day switching from our $35/month/768k wireless service to this DSL. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to retain these customers They are not even giving us a chance to offer them a lower price as they all already have the DSL turned on and been using it for a month before they cancel ours. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Travis Johnson wrote: True... but we are also heavily discounting the installation (down to free)... it's hard to make money if you do a free install, and then a month later they get a DSL promo in the mail and switch. You have lost about $200 on that one customer. And _every_ cell phone company in the nation does contracts. People are used to them, and it also offers peace of mind knowing their pricing won't go up. Okay, everyone says this, so I just gotta ask, has ANYONE raised their rates for bandwidth since they started offering service? Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Travis Microserv Jayson Baker wrote: But if they just truly just don't like you and don't want your service, they are penalized to get out of a contract. We switch a LOT of people over from the local telco, who has been contracting people as much as they can. People HATE that company for that. And bad mouth them all over town for it. On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 10:34 AM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: I disagree with no contracts. Many times people get upset for reasons outside of our control (viruses, antenna damage, water in broken cable). If we didn't have a contract in place, they would just cancel. Otherwise, we at least have a chance to talk to them and see if we can fix it _before_ they switch. Travis Microserv Jayson Baker wrote: Oh yeah--that helps too. We flat-rate everything. $24.95/mo for your Internet includes your taxes, your fees, your equipment rental. $19.95/mo for your Phone includes taxes, fees, equipment rental, E911, and everything else. And we don't have contracts. We tell everyone, if you like us you'll stay, if you don't we're not going to penalize you Talking straight-up to the customer when they call and flat out saying things like that makes most people go, damn... you guys are pretty cool! :-) On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 9:56 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I was wrong I guess the $15 is only for 12 months. Also looks like their $29.95 after the 12 months and there is probably taxes on that. We have been thinking of lowering our price to the $29 range though. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jayson Baker Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 11:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL We offer something the telco never will... A local business with local, friendly support staff. All calls are answered and handled locally. We promote this heavily--and a lot of people are willing to pay more for it. On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 9:24 AM, Steven G McGehee stev...@qx.net wrote: Hi Kurt, What we decided to do a few years ago was let the residential users go, basically. We knew we couldn't compete with the telcos/cable co. increasingly lower prices so our sales guys (I'm a tech) changed tactics and just focused on businesses -- offering them multi-megabit upstream speeds, carrier grade uptime with SLAs whereby they get a credit for every hour they're down (which is quite rare, but customers like the sound of it). We often also throw offer a second backup wireless link (usually connecting on to a different PoP on a different frequency) and setup EIGRP for them. Hosting/email services/24-7 monitoring/colocation/voip are on the menu too so those get put into negotiations with the potential clients. Residential users don't have a need for a lot of that though, so we too were wondering how to compete. While we still do dialup/DSL for them, our strategy was to go for the businesses...a few years behind us, we're happy with that decision. Good luck! -Steven Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person said as long as you have it they will not raise the rate from $15. Think its for 768k service. Anyways we are getting about 1 person a day switching from our $35/month/768k wireless service to this DSL. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to retain these customers They are not even giving us a chance to offer them a lower price as they all already have the DSL turned on and been using it for a month before they cancel ours. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
True... but we are also heavily discounting the installation (down to free)... it's hard to make money if you do a free install, and then a month later they get a DSL promo in the mail and switch. You have lost about $200 on that one customer. And _every_ cell phone company in the nation does contracts. People are used to them, and it also offers peace of mind knowing their pricing won't go up. Okay, everyone says this, so I just gotta ask, has ANYONE raised their rates for bandwidth since they started offering service? rant Yeah that erks me. Every friggin year my Dish bill gets higher. My Electric, Water, Gas, Trash, etc. bills all get higher every year yet we are expected to provide more for less every year. And I am stuck paying ~5K$ per month per DS3. /rant I guess back in 2000 we paid $1600 monthly for a single T1 circuit. Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
The way to compete with $15 DSL is NOT TO. The day we have to, we might as well pack it up, and hope that we reserved a little bit of time over the previous few years to plan for our second career, after wireless. I'm a firm believer that we are better off trying to increase capacity, than lower price. I am also a firm believer that used equipment has jsut as high a value as new equipment if you own it, and its paid for, and it still works. If equipment can only yield a $15 monthly revenue price, de-isntall it and move it to an area that will yeild a higher monthly price. Although admittedly, with Ubiquiti type/class CPE pricing, its hard to justify de-installing anything, when a new CPE is less expensive than the labor to move old stuff. But if using Non-penetrating mounts, Steel is still expensive, more so than labor. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 11:05 AM Subject: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person said as long as you have it they will not raise the rate from $15. Think its for 768k service. Anyways we are getting about 1 person a day switching from our $35/month/768k wireless service to this DSL. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to retain these customers They are not even giving us a chance to offer them a lower price as they all already have the DSL turned on and been using it for a month before they cancel ours. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
One of the things you have to keep in mind, is that you really do have to offer your customers a decent value for their dollars.35 Bux for a fraction of a meg is darn steep pricing these days. We offer a 300K for 25 and 2 meg for 38.50, which is reasonably competitive. You don't' need to be the cheapest to be competitive, but you can't be way outside of normal pricing. I'm thinking of throwing up some MIMO gear and offering something like a 7 meg service.Was thinking of making it about 75 / mo.Not the cheapest. Not the most expensive, either. What would 7 meg be in your area? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 8:05 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person said as long as you have it they will not raise the rate from $15. Think its for 768k service. Anyways we are getting about 1 person a day switching from our $35/month/768k wireless service to this DSL. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to retain these customers They are not even giving us a chance to offer them a lower price as they all already have the DSL turned on and been using it for a month before they cancel ours. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
I pay 70.00 a month for multiple static, 6mbps down/768 up. Att dsl. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 22:14:55 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL One of the things you have to keep in mind, is that you really do have to offer your customers a decent value for their dollars.35 Bux for a fraction of a meg is darn steep pricing these days. We offer a 300K for 25 and 2 meg for 38.50, which is reasonably competitive. You don't' need to be the cheapest to be competitive, but you can't be way outside of normal pricing. I'm thinking of throwing up some MIMO gear and offering something like a 7 meg service.Was thinking of making it about 75 / mo.Not the cheapest. Not the most expensive, either. What would 7 meg be in your area? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 8:05 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person said as long as you have it they will not raise the rate from $15. Think its for 768k service. Anyways we are getting about 1 person a day switching from our $35/month/768k wireless service to this DSL. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to retain these customers They are not even giving us a chance to offer them a lower price as they all already have the DSL turned on and been using it for a month before they cancel ours. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Hi Kurt, What we decided to do a few years ago was let the residential users go, basically. We knew we couldn't compete with the telcos/cable co. increasingly lower prices so our sales guys (I'm a tech) changed tactics and just focused on businesses -- offering them multi-megabit upstream speeds, carrier grade uptime with SLAs whereby they get a credit for every hour they're down (which is quite rare, but customers like the sound of it). We often also throw offer a second backup wireless link (usually connecting on to a different PoP on a different frequency) and setup EIGRP for them. Hosting/email services/24-7 monitoring/colocation/voip are on the menu too so those get put into negotiations with the potential clients. Residential users don't have a need for a lot of that though, so we too were wondering how to compete. While we still do dialup/DSL for them, our strategy was to go for the businesses...a few years behind us, we're happy with that decision. Good luck! -Steven Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person said as long as you have it they will not raise the rate from $15. Think its for 768k service. Anyways we are getting about 1 person a day switching from our $35/month/768k wireless service to this DSL. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to retain these customers They are not even giving us a chance to offer them a lower price as they all already have the DSL turned on and been using it for a month before they cancel ours. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
We offer something the telco never will... A local business with local, friendly support staff. All calls are answered and handled locally. We promote this heavily--and a lot of people are willing to pay more for it. On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 9:24 AM, Steven G McGehee stev...@qx.net wrote: Hi Kurt, What we decided to do a few years ago was let the residential users go, basically. We knew we couldn't compete with the telcos/cable co. increasingly lower prices so our sales guys (I'm a tech) changed tactics and just focused on businesses -- offering them multi-megabit upstream speeds, carrier grade uptime with SLAs whereby they get a credit for every hour they're down (which is quite rare, but customers like the sound of it). We often also throw offer a second backup wireless link (usually connecting on to a different PoP on a different frequency) and setup EIGRP for them. Hosting/email services/24-7 monitoring/colocation/voip are on the menu too so those get put into negotiations with the potential clients. Residential users don't have a need for a lot of that though, so we too were wondering how to compete. While we still do dialup/DSL for them, our strategy was to go for the businesses...a few years behind us, we're happy with that decision. Good luck! -Steven Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person said as long as you have it they will not raise the rate from $15. Think its for 768k service. Anyways we are getting about 1 person a day switching from our $35/month/768k wireless service to this DSL. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to retain these customers They are not even giving us a chance to offer them a lower price as they all already have the DSL turned on and been using it for a month before they cancel ours. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
That's a great point and we've noticed that too -- in fact, some of our phone techs will inform us that customers stuck with us or even switched back to us after dealing with poor (phone) support from the bigger companies. It's a good feeling, and it does still mean a lot to many people out there. Jayson Baker wrote: We offer something the telco never will... A local business with local, friendly support staff. All calls are answered and handled locally. We promote this heavily--and a lot of people are willing to pay more for it. On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 9:24 AM, Steven G McGehee stev...@qx.net wrote: Hi Kurt, What we decided to do a few years ago was let the residential users go, basically. We knew we couldn't compete with the telcos/cable co. increasingly lower prices so our sales guys (I'm a tech) changed tactics and just focused on businesses -- offering them multi-megabit upstream speeds, carrier grade uptime with SLAs whereby they get a credit for every hour they're down (which is quite rare, but customers like the sound of it). We often also throw offer a second backup wireless link (usually connecting on to a different PoP on a different frequency) and setup EIGRP for them. Hosting/email services/24-7 monitoring/colocation/voip are on the menu too so those get put into negotiations with the potential clients. Residential users don't have a need for a lot of that though, so we too were wondering how to compete. While we still do dialup/DSL for them, our strategy was to go for the businesses...a few years behind us, we're happy with that decision. Good luck! -Steven Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person said as long as you have it they will not raise the rate from $15. Think its for 768k service. Anyways we are getting about 1 person a day switching from our $35/month/768k wireless service to this DSL. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to retain these customers They are not even giving us a chance to offer them a lower price as they all already have the DSL turned on and been using it for a month before they cancel ours. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Oh yeah--that helps too. We flat-rate everything. $24.95/mo for your Internet includes your taxes, your fees, your equipment rental. $19.95/mo for your Phone includes taxes, fees, equipment rental, E911, and everything else. And we don't have contracts. We tell everyone, if you like us you'll stay, if you don't we're not going to penalize you Talking straight-up to the customer when they call and flat out saying things like that makes most people go, damn... you guys are pretty cool! :-) On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 9:56 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I was wrong I guess the $15 is only for 12 months. Also looks like their $29.95 after the 12 months and there is probably taxes on that. We have been thinking of lowering our price to the $29 range though. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jayson Baker Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 11:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL We offer something the telco never will... A local business with local, friendly support staff. All calls are answered and handled locally. We promote this heavily--and a lot of people are willing to pay more for it. On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 9:24 AM, Steven G McGehee stev...@qx.net wrote: Hi Kurt, What we decided to do a few years ago was let the residential users go, basically. We knew we couldn't compete with the telcos/cable co. increasingly lower prices so our sales guys (I'm a tech) changed tactics and just focused on businesses -- offering them multi-megabit upstream speeds, carrier grade uptime with SLAs whereby they get a credit for every hour they're down (which is quite rare, but customers like the sound of it). We often also throw offer a second backup wireless link (usually connecting on to a different PoP on a different frequency) and setup EIGRP for them. Hosting/email services/24-7 monitoring/colocation/voip are on the menu too so those get put into negotiations with the potential clients. Residential users don't have a need for a lot of that though, so we too were wondering how to compete. While we still do dialup/DSL for them, our strategy was to go for the businesses...a few years behind us, we're happy with that decision. Good luck! -Steven Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person said as long as you have it they will not raise the rate from $15. Think its for 768k service. Anyways we are getting about 1 person a day switching from our $35/month/768k wireless service to this DSL. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to retain these customers They are not even giving us a chance to offer them a lower price as they all already have the DSL turned on and been using it for a month before they cancel ours. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Gotta offer higher speeds. Better service (customer service especially). Get a REAL bill from one of your customers. It won't be for $15. They'll have taxes, usage fees, modem rental etc. tacked on there. I've asked people that have switched from us to give us a copy of the bill so we can see just how much they are really saving. No one has ever brought in a bill. I don't think they save one red cent. BTW, you can thank USF for this. The telco will give away internet to keep the subsidies on the land line rolling in. Out here Century Tel/link gets between $60 and $100 per month per line in USF funds (depends on who you ask). One of my congressional staff folks told me that Century Tel gets 2/3rds of it's income from subsidies of one kind or another. Heck, that makes them a government agency, not a private phone company :-). deep sigh marlon - Original Message - From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 8:05 AM Subject: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person said as long as you have it they will not raise the rate from $15. Think its for 768k service. Anyways we are getting about 1 person a day switching from our $35/month/768k wireless service to this DSL. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to retain these customers They are not even giving us a chance to offer them a lower price as they all already have the DSL turned on and been using it for a month before they cancel ours. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Bassturds! On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 10:00 AM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Gotta offer higher speeds. Better service (customer service especially). Get a REAL bill from one of your customers. It won't be for $15. They'll have taxes, usage fees, modem rental etc. tacked on there. I've asked people that have switched from us to give us a copy of the bill so we can see just how much they are really saving. No one has ever brought in a bill. I don't think they save one red cent. BTW, you can thank USF for this. The telco will give away internet to keep the subsidies on the land line rolling in. Out here Century Tel/link gets between $60 and $100 per month per line in USF funds (depends on who you ask). One of my congressional staff folks told me that Century Tel gets 2/3rds of it's income from subsidies of one kind or another. Heck, that makes them a government agency, not a private phone company :-). deep sigh marlon - Original Message - From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 8:05 AM Subject: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person said as long as you have it they will not raise the rate from $15. Think its for 768k service. Anyways we are getting about 1 person a day switching from our $35/month/768k wireless service to this DSL. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to retain these customers They are not even giving us a chance to offer them a lower price as they all already have the DSL turned on and been using it for a month before they cancel ours. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
What would you do if another upstream provider came to you and offered you a connection for more than half of the price? You have to lead, follow, or get out of the way. If you sit on you $35/mo for 768k and do not offer a faster tier or lower your prices you will lose subs.As much as customers will tell you they love you for your local service or personal touch they will eventually fall for the Wal-Mart mentality and switch. Richey -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Steven G McGehee Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 11:24 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL Hi Kurt, What we decided to do a few years ago was let the residential users go, basically. We knew we couldn't compete with the telcos/cable co. increasingly lower prices so our sales guys (I'm a tech) changed tactics and just focused on businesses -- offering them multi-megabit upstream speeds, carrier grade uptime with SLAs whereby they get a credit for every hour they're down (which is quite rare, but customers like the sound of it). We often also throw offer a second backup wireless link (usually connecting on to a different PoP on a different frequency) and setup EIGRP for them. Hosting/email services/24-7 monitoring/colocation/voip are on the menu too so those get put into negotiations with the potential clients. Residential users don't have a need for a lot of that though, so we too were wondering how to compete. While we still do dialup/DSL for them, our strategy was to go for the businesses...a few years behind us, we're happy with that decision. Good luck! -Steven Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person said as long as you have it they will not raise the rate from $15. Think its for 768k service. Anyways we are getting about 1 person a day switching from our $35/month/768k wireless service to this DSL. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to retain these customers They are not even giving us a chance to offer them a lower price as they all already have the DSL turned on and been using it for a month before they cancel ours. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
$15 DSL is typically, only half the story, the telco's make about $50-$70 in phone line billing They are not selling $15 Naked DSL... I believe the best counter to this is for the WISP, to strength's their network and offer voice services Nothing is a perfect solution, but also remember, DSL is not a perfect product either... Another key issue to keep in mind is that the bar for high bandwidth delivery is being raised for everyone, telco's, cable co's and WISP's included. Folks in metro areas are the first to feel the effect of this, the folks in rural areas are going to see the effect a bit later I would suggest for all the WISP's to start looking at the 'n' gear available today in the market place, and also keep tabs on all the usual/favorite mfg of wireless equipment soon coming out with their 'n' gear. You' don't have to like a particular mfg. however regardless of mfg. if you get your hands on radios running 'n', it is really exhilarating, to see bandwidth thruput go up by a factor of 5x or 10x over the standard a/b/g gear. Personalized customer service is a big plus for the local WISP, but for a moment think about a scenario where, instead of the WISP playing catchup with the Telco's, the Telco's playing catchup with the WISP's If you put your personal preferences aside for a moment, and just look at the technology... you will see that in the in the next 12 month, there is a new wave of equipment coming out that could (I empasisze 'could' ) give the WISP's a significant advantage.. That will leave us only with the business decision of how to and what to do... Faisal SnappyDSL.net On 3/14/2010 11:28 AM, Steven G McGehee wrote: That's a great point and we've noticed that too -- in fact, some of our phone techs will inform us that customers stuck with us or even switched back to us after dealing with poor (phone) support from the bigger companies. It's a good feeling, and it does still mean a lot to many people out there. Jayson Baker wrote: We offer something the telco never will... A local business with local, friendly support staff. All calls are answered and handled locally. We promote this heavily--and a lot of people are willing to pay more for it. On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 9:24 AM, Steven G McGeheestev...@qx.net wrote: Hi Kurt, What we decided to do a few years ago was let the residential users go, basically. We knew we couldn't compete with the telcos/cable co. increasingly lower prices so our sales guys (I'm a tech) changed tactics and just focused on businesses -- offering them multi-megabit upstream speeds, carrier grade uptime with SLAs whereby they get a credit for every hour they're down (which is quite rare, but customers like the sound of it). We often also throw offer a second backup wireless link (usually connecting on to a different PoP on a different frequency) and setup EIGRP for them. Hosting/email services/24-7 monitoring/colocation/voip are on the menu too so those get put into negotiations with the potential clients. Residential users don't have a need for a lot of that though, so we too were wondering how to compete. While we still do dialup/DSL for them, our strategy was to go for the businesses...a few years behind us, we're happy with that decision. Good luck! -Steven Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person said as long as you have it they will not raise the rate from $15. Think its for 768k service. Anyways we are getting about 1 person a day switching from our $35/month/768k wireless service to this DSL. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to retain these customers They are not even giving us a chance to offer them a lower price as they all already have the DSL turned on and been using it for a month before they cancel ours. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Do what we did with VoIP. Get a copy of a competitors bill so you have exact numbers, and then create a page on your homepage that shows those exact numbers. Qwest DSL in our area adds about 20% for taxes, surcharges, etc. but a lot of people don't know that. Travis Kurt Fankhauser wrote: I was wrong I guess the $15 is only for 12 months. Also looks like their $29.95 after the 12 months and there is probably taxes on that. We have been thinking of lowering our price to the $29 range though. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jayson Baker Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 11:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL We offer something the telco never will... A local business with local, friendly support staff. All calls are answered and handled locally. We promote this heavily--and a lot of people are willing to pay more for it. On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 9:24 AM, Steven G McGehee stev...@qx.net wrote: Hi Kurt, What we decided to do a few years ago was let the residential users go, basically. We knew we couldn't compete with the telcos/cable co. increasingly lower prices so our sales guys (I'm a tech) changed tactics and just focused on businesses -- offering them multi-megabit upstream speeds, carrier grade uptime with SLAs whereby they get a credit for every hour they're down (which is quite rare, but customers like the sound of it). We often also throw offer a second backup wireless link (usually connecting on to a different PoP on a different frequency) and setup EIGRP for them. Hosting/email services/24-7 monitoring/colocation/voip are on the menu too so those get put into negotiations with the potential clients. Residential users don't have a need for a lot of that though, so we too were wondering how to compete. While we still do dialup/DSL for them, our strategy was to go for the businesses...a few years behind us, we're happy with that decision. Good luck! -Steven Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person said as long as you have it they will not raise the rate from $15. Think its for 768k service. Anyways we are getting about 1 person a day switching from our $35/month/768k wireless service to this DSL. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to retain these customers They are not even giving us a chance to offer them a lower price as they all already have the DSL turned on and been using it for a month before they cancel ours. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
I disagree with no contracts. Many times people get upset for reasons outside of our control (viruses, antenna damage, water in broken cable). If we didn't have a contract in place, they would just cancel. Otherwise, we at least have a chance to talk to them and see if we can fix it _before_ they switch. Travis Microserv Jayson Baker wrote: Oh yeah--that helps too. We flat-rate everything. $24.95/mo for your Internet includes your taxes, your fees, your equipment rental. $19.95/mo for your Phone includes taxes, fees, equipment rental, E911, and everything else. And we don't have contracts. We tell everyone, if you like us you'll stay, if you don't we're not going to penalize you Talking straight-up to the customer when they call and flat out saying things like that makes most people go, damn... you guys are pretty cool! :-) On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 9:56 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I was wrong I guess the $15 is only for 12 months. Also looks like their $29.95 after the 12 months and there is probably taxes on that. We have been thinking of lowering our price to the $29 range though. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jayson Baker Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 11:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL We offer something the telco never will... A local business with local, friendly support staff. All calls are answered and handled locally. We promote this heavily--and a lot of people are willing to pay more for it. On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 9:24 AM, Steven G McGehee stev...@qx.net wrote: Hi Kurt, What we decided to do a few years ago was let the residential users go, basically. We knew we couldn't compete with the telcos/cable co. increasingly lower prices so our sales guys (I'm a tech) changed tactics and just focused on businesses -- offering them multi-megabit upstream speeds, carrier grade uptime with SLAs whereby they get a credit for every hour they're down (which is quite rare, but customers like the sound of it). We often also throw offer a second backup wireless link (usually connecting on to a different PoP on a different frequency) and setup EIGRP for them. Hosting/email services/24-7 monitoring/colocation/voip are on the menu too so those get put into negotiations with the potential clients. Residential users don't have a need for a lot of that though, so we too were wondering how to compete. While we still do dialup/DSL for them, our strategy was to go for the businesses...a few years behind us, we're happy with that decision. Good luck! -Steven Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person said as long as you have it they will not raise the rate from $15. Think its for 768k service. Anyways we are getting about 1 person a day switching from our $35/month/768k wireless service to this DSL. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to retain these customers They are not even giving us a chance to offer them a lower price as they all already have the DSL turned on and been using it for a month before they cancel ours. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
But if they just truly just don't like you and don't want your service, they are penalized to get out of a contract. We switch a LOT of people over from the local telco, who has been contracting people as much as they can. People HATE that company for that. And bad mouth them all over town for it. On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 10:34 AM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: I disagree with no contracts. Many times people get upset for reasons outside of our control (viruses, antenna damage, water in broken cable). If we didn't have a contract in place, they would just cancel. Otherwise, we at least have a chance to talk to them and see if we can fix it _before_ they switch. Travis Microserv Jayson Baker wrote: Oh yeah--that helps too. We flat-rate everything. $24.95/mo for your Internet includes your taxes, your fees, your equipment rental. $19.95/mo for your Phone includes taxes, fees, equipment rental, E911, and everything else. And we don't have contracts. We tell everyone, if you like us you'll stay, if you don't we're not going to penalize you Talking straight-up to the customer when they call and flat out saying things like that makes most people go, damn... you guys are pretty cool! :-) On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 9:56 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I was wrong I guess the $15 is only for 12 months. Also looks like their $29.95 after the 12 months and there is probably taxes on that. We have been thinking of lowering our price to the $29 range though. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jayson Baker Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 11:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL We offer something the telco never will... A local business with local, friendly support staff. All calls are answered and handled locally. We promote this heavily--and a lot of people are willing to pay more for it. On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 9:24 AM, Steven G McGehee stev...@qx.net wrote: Hi Kurt, What we decided to do a few years ago was let the residential users go, basically. We knew we couldn't compete with the telcos/cable co. increasingly lower prices so our sales guys (I'm a tech) changed tactics and just focused on businesses -- offering them multi-megabit upstream speeds, carrier grade uptime with SLAs whereby they get a credit for every hour they're down (which is quite rare, but customers like the sound of it). We often also throw offer a second backup wireless link (usually connecting on to a different PoP on a different frequency) and setup EIGRP for them. Hosting/email services/24-7 monitoring/colocation/voip are on the menu too so those get put into negotiations with the potential clients. Residential users don't have a need for a lot of that though, so we too were wondering how to compete. While we still do dialup/DSL for them, our strategy was to go for the businesses...a few years behind us, we're happy with that decision. Good luck! -Steven Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person said as long as you have it they will not raise the rate from $15. Think its for 768k service. Anyways we are getting about 1 person a day switching from our $35/month/768k wireless service to this DSL. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to retain these customers They are not even giving us a chance to offer them a lower price as they all already have the DSL turned on and been using it for a month before they cancel ours. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
On 03/14/2010 11:05 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person said as long as you have it they will not raise the rate from $15. Think its for 768k service. Anyways we are getting about 1 person a day switching from our $35/month/768k wireless service to this DSL. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to retain these customers They are not even giving us a chance to offer them a lower price as they all already have the DSL turned on and been using it for a month before they cancel ours. Hi Kurtthere has to be a hidden agenda (i.e. fine print). I'd look carefully at this promo and/or have someone call up for service and grill them on it and get a name. Leon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL
Ditto on that! On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: I disagree with no contracts. Many times people get upset for reasons outside of our control (viruses, antenna damage, water in broken cable). If we didn't have a contract in place, they would just cancel. Otherwise, we at least have a chance to talk to them and see if we can fix it _before_ they switch. Travis Microserv Jayson Baker wrote: Oh yeah--that helps too. We flat-rate everything. $24.95/mo for your Internet includes your taxes, your fees, your equipment rental. $19.95/mo for your Phone includes taxes, fees, equipment rental, E911, and everything else. And we don't have contracts. We tell everyone, if you like us you'll stay, if you don't we're not going to penalize you Talking straight-up to the customer when they call and flat out saying things like that makes most people go, damn... you guys are pretty cool! :-) On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 9:56 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I was wrong I guess the $15 is only for 12 months. Also looks like their $29.95 after the 12 months and there is probably taxes on that. We have been thinking of lowering our price to the $29 range though. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jayson Baker Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 11:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to compete with $15 DSL We offer something the telco never will... A local business with local, friendly support staff. All calls are answered and handled locally. We promote this heavily--and a lot of people are willing to pay more for it. On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 9:24 AM, Steven G McGehee stev...@qx.net wrote: Hi Kurt, What we decided to do a few years ago was let the residential users go, basically. We knew we couldn't compete with the telcos/cable co. increasingly lower prices so our sales guys (I'm a tech) changed tactics and just focused on businesses -- offering them multi-megabit upstream speeds, carrier grade uptime with SLAs whereby they get a credit for every hour they're down (which is quite rare, but customers like the sound of it). We often also throw offer a second backup wireless link (usually connecting on to a different PoP on a different frequency) and setup EIGRP for them. Hosting/email services/24-7 monitoring/colocation/voip are on the menu too so those get put into negotiations with the potential clients. Residential users don't have a need for a lot of that though, so we too were wondering how to compete. While we still do dialup/DSL for them, our strategy was to go for the businesses...a few years behind us, we're happy with that decision. Good luck! -Steven Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Local phone company here just expanded their DSL coverage area and mailed out fliers to everyone for $15 DSL. I see no mention of it being a promotional price. One person said as long as you have it they will not raise the rate from $15. Think its for 768k service. Anyways we are getting about 1 person a day switching from our $35/month/768k wireless service to this DSL. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to retain these customers They are not even giving us a chance to offer them a lower price as they all already have the DSL turned on and been using it for a month before they cancel ours. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
