How about giving people a choice? Strip search or xray machine?
Which would people choose do you think?
Looking at the imagery, I just don't consider those medical styled
results to be 'nudity'. If they were in full color then maybe I would
have more of an issue with it.
Additionally no one se
>
>
> The x-ray issue was brought up by me. You have men look at men, and
> women look at women.
That makes sense to me but it does bring up a few questions.
1) Don't xrays increase your chances of cancer? So isn't there a case to be
made there about endangering peoples lives more by trying to
The x-ray issue was brought up by me. You have men look at men, and
women look at women. In Iraq we did this and it worked great, and no one
complained.
Your issues about the dogs are valid ones as well. Which again proves my
point that you will never come up with a system that will appease ev
The dogs are probably better, but I'm sure people would have a problem
with being sniffed as well.
Then you have some passengers, young children etc. that may be
mortally afraid of dogs...or allergic to dogs.
So there would be issues there as well.
I don't quite see a problem with the X-Ray style
And I am not sure where this guy was sitting, but if it was near the
wing where most of the fuel is stored, then I am sure it could have been
a very big explosion.
Larry C. Lyons wrote:
> I've never played with the stuff directly but its a military
> explosive, about as volatile and explosive a
I agree that dogs work well. In Germany back in the 80's the MP's used
beagles as well to detect drugs. Problem was they were too small to
smell anything say on the top of a wall locker.
The dog we had in Iraq, 15, was a damn good one and went on all of our
missions for our first part of th
Yes they did...they weren't white...
;-P
2009/12/31 Larry C. Lyons :
>
> Recently 5 kids (18-24) from northern Virginia were arrested in
> Pakistan trying to hook up with AQ. Aside from being of Pakistani
> descent, they did not fit your profile, all being university students
> or graduates. In
Recently 5 kids (18-24) from northern Virginia were arrested in
Pakistan trying to hook up with AQ. Aside from being of Pakistani
descent, they did not fit your profile, all being university students
or graduates. In the case of the Christmas bomber, he did not fit your
profile, the guy was an e
Agreed. Here I keep hearing talk of the technological fixes, when the
problem is a classic Demming type of systemic error. When a dog you
can retrieve from the pound and $20,000 worth of training outperforms
a $5,000,000 machine, which is better for the common good?
Also there are others who coul
I've never played with the stuff directly but its a military
explosive, about as volatile and explosive as nitroglycerin. From what
I remember reading, its a bit difficult to detonate however. This is
about the 5th attempt that AQ has used this type of suicide bomb, with
only one success. Should w
Iin grad school one of the Profs I worked with had a side line of
raising and training dogs for a couple of different government
agencies. The USDA dogs were pretty cool. Their job was to detect any
restricted vegetables or fruit that people may try to get through
customs. These beagles (yes beagl
yeah, I agree on the carry on. Though I once had to throw away a
nearly-empty tube of hand lotion because the label said i contained more
than five ounces. Doh.
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 1:17 PM, Bruce Sorge wrote:
>
> I am sure there is a way to do this. Problem is that no matter what we
> propo
I am sure there is a way to do this. Problem is that no matter what we
propose, there will always be naysayers. I seriously doubt there is
anything in the world that will appease everyone. Lets just do things to
make it harder for terrorists to practice their craft while at the same
time not o
I meant profiling on looks alone is not _enough_.
I thought your point was a middle-aged white guy who was in the Army couldnt
be a terrorist, and shouldnt be looked at while profiling. So I pointed out
that might not be 100% true. (like Timothy McVeigh)
The others were me expanding on that idea
Richard Reid in his younger years in England lived a life of crime,
spent time in jail where is converted to Islam, and had made several
trips to Pakistan prior to 9/11. Adam Gahdan moved to Pakistan in 1998.
John Walker Lindh moved to Afghanistan in March 2001, before the 9/11
attacks. So wha
Then we do one of two things. Leave things the way they are and see how
long it takes for more innocent people to die, or we overhaul what we
have and put in place a system or set of systems that work. Wait, here
is another crazy idea. Get the intelligence communities to play nice
with each ot
however there are a variety of plastics etc that are very difficult to
detect using x-rays. From what I understand (and I could be wrong) the
reliability (both false positives and false negatives) is not fairly
high. Much lower than a trained dog.
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 2:42 PM, Bruce Sorge wro
So, Timothy McVeigh?
Also, never forget Walker Lindh? Adam Gahdan? Even Richard Reid didn't fit
our "profile"?
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 2:42 PM, Bruce Sorge wrote:
>
> Really? So in what way do I fit the profile of a terrorist? I am in the
> US Army, white, middle aged, slightly overweight, la
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 2:13 PM, Dana wrote:
>
> yeah, sure, I know that. I was considering buying one yesterday. Maybe not
> as the SOLE criterion. But I have no problem with it setting a red flag,
> and
> with the triggering number of red flags for increased scrutiny depending on
> context ie
yeah, sure, I know that. I was considering buying one yesterday. Maybe not
as the SOLE criterion. But I have no problem with it setting a red flag, and
with the triggering number of red flags for increased scrutiny depending on
context ie where is the flight coming/going to and whether there are k
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 1:55 PM, Bruce Sorge wrote:
>
> Not sure what news you watch, but Fox, MSNBC, CNN and the BBC all
> reported that the guy did not employ the device properly, which then
> allowed fast acting people to detain him. The attack was never thwarted
> by anyone. He was merely de
On 12/31/2009 11:55 AM, Bruce Sorge wrote:
> Not sure what news you watch, but Fox, MSNBC, CNN and the BBC all
> reported that the guy did not employ the device properly, which then
> allowed fast acting people to detain him. The attack was never thwarted
> by anyone. He was merely detained becaus
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 2:51 PM, G Money wrote:
>
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 1:50 PM, G Money wrote:
>
> >
> > Not when that something else sucks donkey balls :)
> >
> > I say get the intelligence working, or deal with what we got. No
> underwear
> > checks, no full body exams.
> >
> > I would a
On 12/31/2009 11:50 AM, G Money wrote:
> Every attempt that was not caught prior to boarding, was thwarted by bad ass
> American citizens.
>
> When all else fails, citizens not afraid to fight back are still our last
> and best defense.
>
I have been saying this since 9/12/2001. One of the
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 2:38 PM, Larry C. Lyons wrote:
>
> PETN and other explosives are very difficult to pickup using a wand. I
> suspect that they'd be quite difficult to detect with x-rays as well.
> The only reliable detector I know of is a trained explosives sniffing
> dog.
>
>
Like the one
Because there are many valid reasons to have a one way ticket, such as
was the case with me last year. The military often is moved from one
place to another. When someone is moved or gets out and they choose to
fly, they are issued one way tickets. This is one very good reason to
have a one wa
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 9:52 AM, G Money wrote:
>
> I actually disagree. I don't think we'd be seeing a lot of posts blaming
> Bush or flippin' out. People try to blow up airplanes. We try to stop them.
> Sometimesthey get through. We need to keep our calm.
>
>
Well Played Sir!
Of course
Not sure what news you watch, but Fox, MSNBC, CNN and the BBC all
reported that the guy did not employ the device properly, which then
allowed fast acting people to detain him. The attack was never thwarted
by anyone. He was merely detained because he did not succeed in his
mission due to to i
I believe this one was thwarted by a badass Dutch citizen. But I agree with
your larger point. People are no longer passive, and that is good.
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 11:50 AM, G Money wrote:
>
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Bruce Sorge wrote:
>
> >
> > What good is intelligence when it is
so are a lot of people who go postal. I also have no problem with producing
custody paper for the kids every time I go to Canada. It helps prevent a
problem with minor inconveniece to me. If you are ok with triggering
security because you have traces of gunpowder, why are you not ok with
one-way
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 1:50 PM, G Money wrote:
>
> Not when that something else sucks donkey balls :)
>
> I say get the intelligence working, or deal with what we got. No underwear
> checks, no full body exams.
>
> I would also add that this latest attempt also highlights another oddly
> positi
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Bruce Sorge wrote:
>
> What good is intelligence when it is NOT being used or shared properly?
> This is the point. Since the intelligence communities have no interest
> in playing nice with each other, we need to do something else instead.
>
Not when that somet
What good is intelligence when it is NOT being used or shared properly?
This is the point. Since the intelligence communities have no interest
in playing nice with each other, we need to do something else instead.
G Money wrote:
>
> Once again, I don't care about detecting the guy's explosives.
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 1:38 PM, Larry C. Lyons wrote:
>
> PETN and other explosives are very difficult to pickup using a wand. I
> suspect that they'd be quite difficult to detect with x-rays as well.
> The only reliable detector I know of is a trained explosives sniffing
> dog.
>
Once again, I
Really? So in what way do I fit the profile of a terrorist? I am in the
US Army, white, middle aged, slightly overweight, law abiding, so on and
so on.
Dana wrote:
> well, I am ok with screening for one-way tickets. I understand that
> rationale. The nuns on the no-fly list... less so.
>
>
>
No no no, not to detect the presence of explosive by odor, chemical
composition and so on. With an x-ray they would have seen the stuff
strapped to his leg or inside his underwear or wherever it was. That is
what I am talking about. And the x-ray machine can have a chemical
detector in it as w
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Bruce Sorge wrote:
> Other than that it would not have worked
> with the terrorist who potentially could have blown up a plan on
> Christmas day.
>
Yes, I know, I have no interest in trying to retrofit a procedure that would
have found the explosives in this ass
PETN and other explosives are very difficult to pickup using a wand. I
suspect that they'd be quite difficult to detect with x-rays as well.
The only reliable detector I know of is a trained explosives sniffing
dog.
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 2:17 PM, G Money wrote:
>
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 1:10
well, I am ok with screening for one-way tickets. I understand that
rationale. The nuns on the no-fly list... less so.
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 11:34 AM, Bruce Sorge wrote:
>
> G Money wrote:
> > They can pass a wand over me...that's about it.
> >
> >
> A wand does nothing really other than say.
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Dana wrote:
>
> ok, too big too fail was adopted by the Obama administration, half a point
> for that
>
Yeah, that's a good one.Miss Cali had a good one about "same sex
marriage or opposite marriage". Opposite marriage...that cracks me up.
--
We're ba
G Money wrote:
> They can pass a wand over me...that's about it.
>
>
A wand does nothing really other than say... if you are someone like my
mom who now is the proud owner of a titanium hip, they have to wand you
and reconcile where the wand goes off with the little card with the
x-ray pictu
still looking for non-Bush moronic quotes. I'll agree that Napolitano's is a
contender (even if I kinda like her) but I think she's outclassed. I can't
think of any non-Bush examples of monumental stupidity right now
ok, too big too fail was adopted by the Obama administration, half a point
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 1:10 PM, Bruce Sorge wrote:
>
> Define non-invasive?
They can pass a wand over me...that's about it.
> I am all for full body X-rays. They work.
We used
> them in Iraq on several bases and I can tell you from personal
> experience that they work.
I'm sure they do w
Define non-invasive? I am all for full body X-rays. They work. We used
them in Iraq on several bases and I can tell you from personal
experience that they work. Some may consider this invasive though as it
pretty much shows everything. As long as it is not abused (separate
lines for men and wo
G Money wrote:
> Hmmm.great idea for a new thread, since I don't feel like working..I
> think your quote has some serious competition:
>
> - "You go to war with the army you've got"
>
This would have worked if they decided to go with a bigger force instead
of a leaner meaner force. The
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Jacob wrote:
>
> I think the moronic quote of the decade should be Janet Napolitano's
> remark,
> "The system worked like is should."
>
>
Hmmm.great idea for a new thread, since I don't feel like working..I
think your quote has some serious competition:
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 11:29 AM, Jacob wrote:
>
> Also, there is technology out there that would have helped catch this guy
> at
> the airport. Now, they are installing it at Amsterdam airport.
>
If this technology is completely non invasive, cheap, and reliable...then
i'm fine with it.
Other
o: cf-community
Subject: Re: Who gets the blame for the attempted bombing on Christmas?
The buck stops with Obama. In this case, I'm not sure yet what all was
missed. He could have been stopped by better screening equipment in
airports. That equipment has been proposed previously and been held up
have helped catch this guy at
the airport. Now, they are installing it at Amsterdam airport.
-Original Message-
From: Scott Stroz [mailto:boyz...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 6:20 AM
To: cf-community
Subject: Who gets the blame for the attempted bombing on Christmas
I think all additional security focus should be on identifying potentially
dangerous people and maintaining an active and up to date no fly list. This
should be done INSTEAD of reacting to specific instances with additional
security screenings.
I think it's stupid that we have to take our shoes o
The buck stops with Obama. In this case, I'm not sure yet what all was
missed. He could have been stopped by better screening equipment in
airports. That equipment has been proposed previously and been held up
in Congress. Nothing the executive branch can really do about that but
hopefully this mo
st if that was ever offered
> >> up as an 'excuse' for Bush.
> >>
> >> You guys have proven once again that, in your eyes, what is good for
> >> the goose, is not good for the gander.
> >>
> >> On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 8:55 AM, Jim Da
sounds pretty good.
Though I did not not realize that that Dutchman was a student. The interview
I saw described him as a video producer. Though of course, what that is in
an age of Youtube...
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 8:30 AM, Jerry Johnson wrote:
>
> Here is what I would love to see as a respo
; vitriol that would have spewed from this list if that was ever offered
>> up as an 'excuse' for Bush.
>>
>> You guys have proven once again that, in your eyes, what is good for
>> the goose, is not good for the gander.
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 8:55
Here is what I would love to see as a response:
Ignore the jerk that did this - never publicly mention him again. Let him
LEARN what "lonely" really means.
Publicly reward the student that jumped him. Permanent travel visa to the
USA.
Privately penalize the air carrier.
Privately rip ALL of the s
e-
> >> From: Scott Stroz [mailto:boyz...@gmail.com]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 9:20 AM
> >> To: cf-community
> >> Subject: Who gets the blame for the attempted bombing on Christmas?
> >>
> >>
> >> Based on Gruss' posi
I was barely into IT at that point. 9/10/2001 was my first day in my
new career as a 'Web Developer/Assistant Network Administrator'.
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 10:24 AM, Zaphod Beeblebrox
wrote:
>
> you must have been a lot more productive back then :) I know I was
> before I found this list
>
>
>
you must have been a lot more productive back then :) I know I was
before I found this list
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 9:18 AM, Scott Stroz wrote:
>
> Not sure. I did not even know this list existed then. :D
>
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Zaphod Beeblebrox
> wrote:
>>
>> I don't remember a
Not sure. I did not even know this list existed then. :D
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Zaphod Beeblebrox
wrote:
>
> I don't remember a lot of vitriol towards bush when the shoe bomber
> was stopped. Wouldn't that be more analogous to the current
> situation?
>
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 8:52
I don't remember a lot of vitriol towards bush when the shoe bomber
was stopped. Wouldn't that be more analogous to the current
situation?
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 8:52 AM, G Money wrote:
>
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 8:43 AM, Scott Stroz wrote:
>
>>
>> The lack of outrage.
>>
>> As I said, if th
> -Original Message-
> From: Scott Stroz [mailto:boyz...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 9:05 AM
> To: cf-community
> Subject: Re: Who gets the blame for the attempted bombing on Christmas?
>
>
> Funny, not once does the word 'wrong'
Yea, gotta admit, I liked that as well. I would not want to be one of
the people that comment was directed at.
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 10:03 AM, Ian Skinner wrote:
>
> On 12/31/2009 6:43 AM, Scott Stroz wrote:
>> But, now that we know it still exists...fix the fucking thing.
>>
>
>
> Which is wh
On 12/31/2009 6:43 AM, Scott Stroz wrote:
> But, now that we know it still exists...fix the fucking thing.
>
Which is why I like the current administration's response to these
agencies. I paraphrase: "Explain this, by the end of the week".
~~~
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 8:43 AM, Scott Stroz wrote:
>
> The lack of outrage.
>
> As I said, if this happened last year, there would be quite a few
> posts blaming/slamming Bush. Instead we get, 'yea, well it technically
> is his fault, but you know, he has been kind of busy'
>
I actually disagr
The lack of outrage.
As I said, if this happened last year, there would be quite a few
posts blaming/slamming Bush. Instead we get, 'yea, well it technically
is his fault, but you know, he has been kind of busy'
Its the typical my side is right, your side is wrong bullshit we see
here (and in po
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 8:04 AM, Scott Stroz wrote:
>
> You guys have proven once again that, in your eyes, what is good for
> the goose, is not good for the gander.
>
How so?
I'm pretty sure they all agree with you that the buck stops at Obama.
--
We're baptized in these waters
And in each
It being on Christmas and all, we all know who's to blame...those
Radical Christians that everyone is saying are as bad as Al Queda.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxsCxtzJEdM
~|
Want to reach the ColdFusion community with somet
; -Original Message-
>> From: Scott Stroz [mailto:boyz...@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 9:20 AM
>> To: cf-community
>> Subject: Who gets the blame for the attempted bombing on Christmas?
>>
>>
>> Based on Gruss' position
> -Original Message-
> From: Scott Stroz [mailto:boyz...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 9:20 AM
> To: cf-community
> Subject: Who gets the blame for the attempted bombing on Christmas?
>
>
> Based on Gruss' position about 9/11, it has to b
the guy's been kinda busy. But sure. If you feel the need to blame someone,
that is where the buck stops. You haev to give him credit though , for not
telling Janet Napolitano "helluva job."
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 6:19 AM, Scott Stroz wrote:
>
> Based on Gruss' position about 9/11, it has to b
Based on Gruss' position about 9/11, it has to be Obama. Why?
For starters, there was intelligence for more than one agency that was
not shared. If ti was shared, maybe this guy never gets on a plane.
Hell, the guy's father called a US embassy to tell them he thought his
son was up to no good, wh
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