Do you know any black people who listen to the Beasties? Do other rap
acts give them shout-outs on record? They are making white music for
white
people. Nothing wrong with that, but it ain't hip-hop.
As a matter of fact, in the latest edition of Rolling Stone, a rap
artist by the name of
to judgment in order to beat every
other magazine to the end of the year. Hey, if you were about to
release a brilliant disc in the later months of 1999, don't bother.
The section is launched by Greil Marcus's brief essay on the
magazine's Artist of the Decade, Kurt Cobain
Pushing aside the arbitrary (and silly) nature of this shellgame, tell me
why it shouldn't be:
Perry Farrell (who commercialized the most interesting aspects of Nirvana's
"revolution")
Dr. Dre (who made rap safe for white people; God bless Eminem)
U2 (who legitimized dance music for young
On Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:24:00 PDT Greg Harness
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I thought your candidate had already won and been declared AOTD months ago.
This new little thread is nothing more than a post-mortem on a de facto
decision, right? AOTD will retain his title.
Umm, I musta missed that
You thought Vince Gill, right?
And still do.
Jon Weisberger, Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger
Kurt Cobain by a country mile. There are very few things Rolling Stone gets
right but this is one of them.
--
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "passenger side" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Artist of the Decade?
Date: Wed, Apr 21, 1999, 6:48 PM
In a message dated 4/21/99 3:00:28
At 10:28 PM 4/21/99 -0700, Jerry wrote:
I found Nirvana to be way to raw and underproduced for my liking
Jerry, Jerry, Jerry. As someone who also appreciates big production, let
this fellow traveler just reassure you that Nevermind, despite the culty
punk expectations it carries, was...PRODUCED
On Thu, 22 Apr 1999, David Cantwell wrote:
Jerry, Jerry, Jerry. As someone who also appreciates big production, let
this fellow traveler just reassure you that Nevermind, despite the culty
punk expectations it carries, was...PRODUCED OUT THE ASS Anyone
David et al.
Thanks for the
Jerry Curry writes:
Remember Fire Town anyone?
Absolutely. Decent first album with a classic song in "Carry the Torch" and
a second album ("The Good Life") that's solid all the way through. Hey
maybe if the next Garbage album flops, we can look forward to a Fire Town
reunion!
--Slonedog
Jerry Curry wrote:
Always like Mr. Vig. Remember Fire Town anyone?
This should bring The Krueg out of hiding. Seems I remember
some stories about Tom snorting coke with Butch and Fire Town or
some such.
Dave
***
Dave Purcell, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Northern Ky Roots Music:
I think perhaps, Cobain's voice spoiled the overall
sound for me and that's why I gave the record such short shrift.
Wow, I tend Cobain's voice *makes* the record. Someone once called him the
"human Marshall stack." I couldn't have put it any better. One of the best
rock voices to ever
At 05:16 AM 4/22/99 -0500, JP dared us all to explain the artist of the
decade should NOT be one of the following:
Perry Farrell (who commercialized the most interesting aspects of Nirvana's
"revolution")
You mean, LEAST interesting, right?
Dr. Dre
Well, I nominated him myself,
Seriously -
It's Dr. Dre. With NWA he took rap music from party music to street poetry
with a documentarian stance. Unlike Public Enemy he got his message across
without being pedantic. This legitimized "gangsta" rap to the critical
establishment AND opened the door for hip-hop's dominance of
Unfortunately, I think we're gonna have to include Garth here. Hie's
touched alot of lives and his sales alone prove that. I think he's
sold more records/discs than The Beatles or some unfathomable figure.
As for most influential artist of all time you gotta include the
"gloved one"
In
considered artist of the decade for your marketing skill
alone.
As for most influential artist of all time you gotta include the
"gloved one"
I had a dream a few nights ago after seeing some footage of the Jackson 5.
In my dream Michael jackson grew up, maturing into a soulman a la M
On the rap tip, The Sugar Hill Gang pretty much invented it, so
Also, for the 90's The Beasties deserve a shout out...
-JF
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On the rap tip, The Sugar Hill Gang pretty much invented it, so
Also, for the 90's The Beasties deserve a shout out...
-JF
The Beasties have made a couple of great records. But they have more in
common with Pearl Jam than with any rap artist. You can make rap music and
still have no
At 03:08 PM 4/22/99 -0500, JP wrote in defense of Dre:
With NWA he took rap music from party music to street poetry
with a documentarian stance. Unlike Public Enemy he got his message across
without being pedantic. This legitimized "gangsta" rap to the critical
establishment AND opened the
JPRiedie writes: Don't be silly. Their most mature and compelling work is
Achtung Baby. 1991
If anything, I think U2 has gotten less "mature" during the 90s. Like REM,
they seem bent on making fun of themselves to less than hilarious effect.
In the 80s, sure they were pretentious, but at
In my dream Michael jackson grew up, maturing into a soulman a la Marvin
Gaye. No surgery, no wierdness.
Er, ah, "a la Marvin Gaye" and "no weirdness" don't belong in the same
paragraph.
Good point. but Marvin was more "troubled" than "weird". Still, I hope
you got my drift.
Unfortunately, I think we're gonna have to include Garth here.
I don't
think you get considered artist of the decade for your marketing skill
alone.
As much as I don't like him, from a marketing vantage you just don't
sell that much of *anything* unless you've struck a chord or gulp
The discussion here breaks down along the atomization of markets since
the mid80s, so it makes sense to say that Gill, Dre, Malkmus (Pavement
does make sense as the key 90s indie band, though only because they
democratized Sonic Youth's late-80s innovations) and the
In a message dated 4/22/99 3:54:58 PM EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Oh yeah, Ray Davies claimed to have invented heavy metal, so...
nope. link wray did.
At 03:46 PM 4/22/99 -0500, JP wrote:
Achtung Baby! is a deathly serious record. It's also their most literate
and musical.
You know, in some ways this is probably right. I'd nominate either Achtung
or Joshua Tree as their best over all albums. But, as far as artist of the
90s goes, Achtung is
At 05:00 PM 4/22/99 -0400, Carl wrote:
HOWEVER: Your question about whether
Aretha rather than Joni was the key gender-revolutionary in sixties
pop was already creeping into my head as I wrote that last post. I'd
certainly *prefer* to say it was Aretha - but I wonder if
As well, Nirvana combined quality and commercial success at an
incomparable level for the decade - if The Key had sold like a Garth
Brooks album, Jon W's assertion would hold up better, methinks.
If we're talking about the decade, I don't know that Nirvana's sold more
albums than Gill; the RIAA
Now that's an erudite summation. But I still can't get my head around
Cobain as artist of the decade. His creative achievement, though jarring
and influential, doesn't compare to that of the other serious contenders.
Besides, the eight year old who runs my house, his seventeen year old
The Beasties have made a couple of great records. But they have more in
common with Pearl Jam than with any rap artist. You can make rap music and
still have no idea what hip-hop is. The Tibetan concerts are alterna fests
because that's the Beasties audience. They have zero influence on
The Beasties have made a couple of great records. But they have more in
common with Pearl Jam than with any rap artist. You can make rap music and
still have no idea what hip-hop is. The Tibetan concerts are alterna fests
because that's the Beasties audience. They have zero influence on the
Do you know the difference between rap and hip-hop?
I don't. Enlighten me.
Do you know any black people who listen to the Beasties? Do other rap acts
give them shout-outs on record? They are making white music for white
people. Nothing wrong with that, but it ain't hip-hop.
JP
Says Leyla Turkkan, former publicist for the Beasties: All the really
hardcore hip-hop
I love "Paul's Boutique" - in fact I might call it one of the more important
albums of the last quarter century, but artist of the decade? No way! Since
Paul's Boutique, it's really only been select moments of brilliance in my
opinion. In fact, I couldn't find a damn thing to
Lance wrote:
I guess one of the inherent problems with discussing the Beasties as rap
artists is the amount of essentialism that must be chopped away before you
can discuss the music they create.
Indeed, which is why I wish they qualified as AOTDs to more than a
small
I wrote:
If we're talking about the decade, I don't know that Nirvana's sold more
albums than Gill; the RIAA database is down right now, but I'll
report back.
And though the database is still down (wake up over there!), on taking
another look at the best-sellers list, I see that Nirvana
JP wrote;
The lineups for those silly concerts are filled with white altern-acts
because those people are the Beasties social peers. If the band hung out
with The Roots or Mystikal, don't you think that's who'd be playing the
show?
Not to take issue with JP's main point about the
the choppiness of this diatribe as I am writing
it in unix mail and I didnt outline my thoughts well before I started
writing...If you all would like, I could do about 2 pages on each aspect
of Jeff's musical career as I have seen it and more reasons why he is the
artist of the decade, from UT through S
and just to really blow everyone's mind, please note that last month
Steve Earle earned his "GOLD" status for Guitar Town!! That came out in 1986
and has only sold 500,000 copies. What the heck is goin' on
Kate (happy to have contributed to the 500k)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I
In a message dated 4/22/99 7:19:35 PM EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I do think Neal has a pretty valid point about how powerful the
Beasties' influence has been in breaking various elements of hip-hop culture
into the white middle-class, their whole Grand Royal label-'zine-clothing
Excerpts from internet.listserv.postcard2: 22-Apr-99 Re: Artist of the
Decade/si.. by JP [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Before y'all kill me on anecdotal evidence charges, realize that I'm trying
to illustrate that the only people listening to Nirvana are critics and
white folks between 28 and 40.
Uh
The local hip-hop promoter is a buddy of mine. He has lectured me over
chronic many times about the difference between rap and hip-hop. As far as
I can remember hip-hop is a cultural movement (analogous to rock and roll
in the fifties) while rap is simply a form of music. The primary elements
Jerry said:
I think perhaps, Cobain's voice spoiled the overall
sound for me and that's why I gave the record such short shrift.
There's nothing wrong with not liking a recording because you don't like the
vocals...maybe that statement needs to be repeated g If the voice or the
vocal stylings
What does everybody think of Rolling Stone's typically head up their ass
selection of Kurt Cobain as Artist of the Decade? Try most pathetic loser
of the decade. The guy had nothing interesting to say musically or lyrically
and then he blew his brains out. Any alternative selections we P-2ers
On Wed, 21 Apr 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What does everybody think of Rolling Stone's typically head up their ass
selection of Kurt Cobain as Artist of the Decade?
Well, I'd take him over Alejandro Escovedo, that's for sure.g--don
Steve Malkmus.
I see a thread developing here.
Here, here, Don!
-Original Message-
From: Don Yates [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: passenger side [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 6:08 PM
Subject: Re: Artist of the Decade?
On Wed, 21 Apr 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What does everybody think of Rolling Stone's typically
Tarhut Jeff:
Steve Malkmus.
Ooh, good one. I'm torn between Malkmus or Jay Farrar.
Steve Kirsch
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
np: Damnations TX
___
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free
In a message dated 4/21/99 3:00:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
What does everybody think of Rolling Stone's typically head up their ass
selection of Kurt Cobain as Artist of the Decade? Try most pathetic loser
of the decade. The guy had nothing interesting to say
What does everybody think of Rolling Stone's typically head up their ass
selection of Kurt Cobain as Artist of the Decade? Try most pathetic loser
of the decade. The guy had nothing interesting to say musically or lyrically
and then he blew his brains out. Any alternative selections we P-2ers
Wow...I disliked Curt Cobain's music and I
disliked Nirvana as well. _In Utero_ particulary grated on me.
However, I think I would agree that he's the artist
of the 1990's. He was extremely influential and
basically defined alterna-rock and honed the
entire grunge sound. Hell, on the
Excerpts from internet.listserv.postcard2: 21-Apr-99 Re: Artist of the
Decade? by Jerry [EMAIL PROTECTED]
However, I think I would agree that he's the artist
of the 1990's. He was extremely influential and
basically defined alterna-rock and honed the
entire grunge sound. Hell
BTW, I also happen to think Cobain was a pretty fabulous craftsman.
Jerry, wasn't he poppy enough for you?
Carl Z.
NPIMH: "More Than a Feeling"...no wait, that's "Smells Like Teen Spirit"
Dittos to all the Cobain support. But, though I'd need to think much harder
about it, my gut reaction tells me the artist of the decade might just have
to be...Dr. Dre. --david cantwell
At 09:33 PM 4/21/99 -0400, you wrote:
BTW, I also happen to think Cobain was a pretty fabulous craftsman.
Jerry, wasn't he poppy enough for you?
Kurt never worked with Jeff Lynne and Jerry's bitter.
Jeff
Miles of Music mail order
http://www.milesofmusic.com
FREE printed Catalog: (818)
Where's Weisberger to ask about criteria? g
If we don't care how long in the 90s an artist was actively recording in a
national arena (ie Cobain was active from 1990-1993), then I'd suggest
Gillian Welch for AOTD. If we are looking at ten years of performance, I
give you one name - Emmylou.
Where's Weisberger to ask about criteria? g
Hey, I made my nomination during the Escovedo go-round, and I haven't seen
any reason to rethink it - in fact, I've seen lots of reasons to confirm it.
Jon Weisberger, Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger
Hey there,
Slonedog...
What does everybody think of Rolling Stone's typically head up
their ass selection of Kurt Cobain as Artist of the Decade? Try most
pathetic
loser of the decade. The guy had nothing interesting to say musically or
lyrically and then he blew his brains out. Any
Jon Weisberger wrote:
Hey, I made my nomination during the Escovedo go-round, and I haven't
seen
any reason to rethink it - in fact, I've seen lots of reasons to confirm
it.
I thought your candidate had already won and been declared AOTD months ago.
This new little thread is nothing more than
I thought your candidate had already won and been declared AOTD
months ago.
I hope so, but I figure it's not official until it's on the cover of No
Depression.
Jon Weisberger, Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger
The artist of the decade is, of course, The Beastie Boys.
Later...
CK
I agree, and not just because I'm finishing up a paper on the Boys at this
very moment g. As far as I'm concerned, the decade of the 1990's really
began with the release of Paul's Boutique, and nothing released since then
has
At 12:10 AM 4/22/99 -0400, you wrote:
Where's Weisberger to ask about criteria? g
Hey, I made my nomination during the Escovedo go-round, and I haven't seen
any reason to rethink it - in fact, I've seen lots of reasons to confirm it.
Jon Weisberger, Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Wed, 21 Apr 1999, Carl Abraham Zimring wrote:
BTW, I also happen to think Cobain was a pretty fabulous craftsman.
Jerry, wasn't he poppy enough for you?
Naw Carl,
You'll have to visit with my evil pop counterpart, Bill silvers. He likes
his pop crunchy, I like it lush and overdubbed all
On Wed, 21 Apr 1999, Jeff Weiss wrote:
At 09:33 PM 4/21/99 -0400, you wrote:
BTW, I also happen to think Cobain was a pretty fabulous craftsman.
Jerry, wasn't he poppy enough for you?
Kurt never worked with Jeff Lynne and Jerry's bitter.
Holy Moley, I'm picturing the possibilities in my
In a message dated 3/14/99 4:05:10 AM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Oh..memories of Al Green...
Alright! A kindred soul in the cult of Reverend Al.
When I was home at Xmas my family was watching the "100 greatest artists.." on
VH1. My grumpy Dad was complaining about
Btw, Jon, I must confess I'm hearing more and more
mainstream Nashville cuts that strike me as good, respectable stuff
these days. Maybe there *is* a trend Yesterday , for
ex., I heard that Trisha song, "Powerful Thing" (or whatever the
title is) and thought it was an entirely enjoyable
Nashville cuts that strike me as good, respectable stuff
these days. Maybe there *is* a trend Yesterday , for
ex., I heard that Trisha song, "Powerful Thing" (or whatever the
title is) and thought it was an entirely enjoyable sort of pop-twang
number, nice fiddle line, etc
.
Which leads me to the (rhetorical?) question: Can anyone top Steve Earle
for artist of the decade??
When you put:
Train a'comin'
Feel Alright
El Corazon
the Mountain
back to back to back to back, and then consider his far reaching influence
as producer/label head/guest musician . . . I would
In a message dated 3/12/99 5:25:51 AM !!!First Boot!!!, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Which leads me to the (rhetorical?) question: Can anyone top Steve Earle
for artist of the decade??
Dave Alvin (can I get an "Amen" from Miss Marie, there?)
Mitch Matthews
Gravel Train/Sunken Road
Jim writes:
Which leads me to the (rhetorical?) question: Can anyone top Steve Earle
for artist of the decade??
When you put:
Train a'comin'
Feel Alright
El Corazon
the Mountain
back to back, etc.
I'd agree with that, if we're talking about alternative country, big tent
or small
I haven't seen much to make me change my mind as far as AOTD honors go, and
a fair amount, starting with The Key, to make me stick to my choice; if the
Scruggs-Gill-Skaggs-Stuart-Krauss-? album actually gets out this year, that
ought to just about nail it down, at least for me.
...can any single
On Fri, 12 Mar 1999, Terry A. Smith wrote:
guess I'd make Thompson's decade end in the mid-90s). The point is that
for me these two artists are very similar -- masterful songwriters and
arrangers, killer vocals and guitar, and every song makes a point. Even
though critics and fans have
At 07:52 AM 3/12/99 -0500, you wrote:
if the
Scruggs-Gill-Skaggs-Stuart-Krauss-? album actually gets out this year, that
ought to just about nail it down, at least for me.
When the Scruggs-Gill-Skaggs-Stuart-Krauss album comes out, it will be a
sad, sad, day for music. How can you ever top a
Jeff:
Because after this disc, what can God do to top himself?
Well, if it's the righteous arm of Old-Testament-destruction Yahweh,
he might start off by ridding the world of Diamond Rio and
Blackhawk. The rest can be saved on the Ark of Twang g.
--junior
Well, if it's the righteous arm of Old-Testament-destruction Yahweh,
he might start off by ridding the world of Diamond Rio and
Blackhawk.
Blackhawk is utterly unmeritorious, but by God, if you want to get to
Diamond Rio, you're going to have to get past me and Louise Kyme - and
buddy,
Jeff:
Because after this disc, what can God do to top himself?
Well, if it's the righteous arm of Old-Testament-destruction Yahweh,
he might start off by ridding the world of Diamond Rio and
Blackhawk. The rest can be saved on the Ark of Twang g.
--junior
Oo, oo, oo, let him get
Jon:
Blackhawk is utterly unmeritorious, but by God, if you want to get to
Diamond Rio, you're going to have to get past me and Louise Kyme - and
buddy, let me tell you, she is tough.
Hoowee, "utterly unmeritorious" is the nicest thing one can say g.
Guess I'll just leave the Rio boys to
On Fri, 12 Mar 1999, Ph. Barnard wrote:
Btw, Jon, I must confess I'm hearing more and more
mainstream Nashville cuts that strike me as good, respectable stuff
these days.
This must be make-nice week or something. First, we're kissing and
making up with all of the Tupelo fans, and now
Jeff Wall writes:
They put on a good live show. Yes they are popish, but I love Henry's
voice. I think they have suffered a lot from production. I would like
to see them do a straight Bluegrass album. I think you might be
suprised.
I'm with Jeff here. Normally I find them insufferable,
On Fri, 12 Mar 1999, Ph. Barnard wrote:
So Will, are you gonna be in Austin for the kissy-face convention??
Nah, I dont do that summer of love kinda stuff. I'm staying home for the
kickboxing tournament.
Will Miner
Denver, CO
Excerpts from internet.listserv.postcard2: 12-Mar-99 RE: dreaded artist
of the d.. by "Ph. Barnard"@eagle.cc.u
Actually, I've just been wondering to myself lately what's happening
when I prefer new Trisha Yearwood cuts, for ex., to new Waco
cuts, for ex. I don't think it's me that's
I'm not going to be at SXSW - I reckon I'll make it one of these years, if
only as the guy who holds Mark Wyatt's capes - so no kissy-face, I'm afraid.
Interesting comments on Blackhawk, etc. Seems like a lot of people have
their own exceptions to the general distaste for mainstream country
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