Re: [Talk-us] dubious church node

[John F. Eldredge]

On 9/29/2017 9:59 PM, John F. Eldredge wrote:

On 9/29/2017 8:31 PM, Max Erickson wrote:

Yeah, a Google search for "Mill Creek Church nashville" has

http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nashvillearchives/millcreek.html 



as an early result. It says the church building has been dismantled
but mentions a cemetery, which still exists nearby the mislocated osm
node:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/53498031#map=16/36.1182/-86.7267


Max

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That sounds like a reference to the original Mill Creek Baptist Church 
(there is a current-day church by that name, but it isn't descended 
from the earlier church). I am the person who mapped the Mill Creek 
Baptist Church Graveyard, and am a board member in a nonprofit 
organization, Friends of Mill Creek Baptist Church Graveyard, Inc., 
that maintains the graveyard. The Mill Creek Baptist Church was 
located within the graveyard property, a couple of miles away from 
where this node in question is located. It might possibly have been a 
different church of some other denomination.  Before removing it, I 
will post a question to a Facebook group that discusses local history, 
and see if anyone can tell me if there was ever a church there.



I have now learned more on a local-history Facebook group.  The location 
on Antioch Pike is the original location of the Mill Creek Baptist 
Church congregation that now meets on Wallace Road, about two miles 
away.  This congregation is not descended from the original Mill Creek 
Baptist Church, which was about two miles away in a different direction.


--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that.  Hate cannot drive out 
hate; only love can do that." -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.


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Re: [Talk-us] dubious church node

[Max Erickson]

There's a fair chance that a GNIS location is off by a couple miles. A
little bit more information from GNIS is available by putting the ID
into https://geonames.usgs.gov/pls/gnispublic/

It lists "Mill Creek Baptist Church" as a variant name.

From time to time I come across a GNIS entry that is off by dozens of
miles. I figure these must be typos during the location entry or
something like that, as many of them are located well. In this case I
would assume they only knew the church was in Nashville near Mill
Creek.


Max

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Re: [Talk-us] dubious church node

[Kevin Kenny]

On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 9:33 PM, Mark Bradley 
wrote:

>
> In the course of my mapping in the American Midwest, I have come across
> several small country churches of GNIS origin that no longer exist.  Often
> there will be a nearby cemetery, but the church facility is gone.  I simply
> delete the node.  In one case I know of, the church building was converted
> into a home, so I remapped it accordingly.
>

Of course, if the cemetery is there on the ground, then it should be
mapped. But deleting the node for a demolished church is entirely
appropriate. For a church converted to a private home, consider:

building=detached historic:amenity=place_of_worship historic:name=* etc.

if the building still resembles a church.
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Re: [Talk-us] dubious church node

[Kevin Kenny]

On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 8:18 PM, Ed Hillsman  wrote:

> In my mapping in Albuquerque, I have come across a number of GNIS nodes
> tagged as churches or schools, in built-up areas, that I am unable to find
> on the ground anywhere near the coordinates. I’ve researched a few of them
> and found that they did exist at one time or another but have been
> demolished or incorporated into newer facilities. So I’ve added a note to
> these that they are “historic” but that I can’t pin down their location.
> Otherwise, I’ve left them alone, figuring someone with more knowledge of
> local history can figure out where they were located.
>

No knowledge of local history needed. If something isn't there on the
ground any more, then it shouldn't be on the map.

I feel free to delete GNIS stuff for features that no longer exist. There
are cases where I've instead done things like

building=detatched historic:amenity=school

for an old schoolhouse converted to a private home.

Another point is that if you have the outline for something that GNIS shows
as a node, please conflate! I've done that with a lot of buildings and
parks locally - just copy-and-paste the GNIS tags from the node to the
polygon and then delete the node.
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Re: [Talk-us] dubious church node

[John F. Eldredge]

On 9/29/2017 8:31 PM, Max Erickson wrote:

Yeah, a Google search for "Mill Creek Church nashville" has

http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nashvillearchives/millcreek.html

as an early result. It says the church building has been dismantled
but mentions a cemetery, which still exists nearby the mislocated osm
node:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/53498031#map=16/36.1182/-86.7267


Max

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That sounds like a reference to the original Mill Creek Baptist Church 
(there is a current-day church by that name, but it isn't descended from 
the earlier church). I am the person who mapped the Mill Creek Baptist 
Church Graveyard, and am a board member in a nonprofit organization, 
Friends of Mill Creek Baptist Church Graveyard, Inc., that maintains the 
graveyard. The Mill Creek Baptist Church was located within the 
graveyard property, a couple of miles away from where this node in 
question is located. It might possibly have been a different church of 
some other denomination.  Before removing it, I will post a question to 
a Facebook group that discusses local history, and see if anyone can 
tell me if there was ever a church there.



--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that.  Hate cannot drive out 
hate; only love can do that." -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.


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[talk-ph] About user "MembersOnly"

[Jherome Miguel]

This new user has been making many edits on the past days, but I notice
something strange with this one. This user is adding false data to the map,
and this looks like it is connected to "bryanpiczon", because of the style
of comments. We should monitor that user's edits and revert additions of
fake data once sighted.

--TagaSanPedroAko
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Re: [Talk-us] dubious church node

[Mark Bradley]

> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 18:26:49 -0500
> From: "John F. Eldredge" 
> To: OpenStreetMap Talk-US Mailing List 
> Subject: [Talk-us] dubious church node
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> 
> OSM Item 356845407 is a node supposedly marking the location of a church named
> "Mill Creek Church", at coordinates 36.0972810, -86.7027754
> . The node 
> history
> shows two changesets making edits to the node, but no changeset for the 
> creation of
> the node. It has these tags:
> 
> amenity
>   place_of_worship
>  US>
> 
> ele 145
> gnis:county_id037
> gnis:created  05/19/1980
> gnis:feature_id
> 
>   1306749
> gnis:state_id 47
> name   Mill
> Creek Church
> religion 
>   christian
> 
> 
> I became curious about this, as aerial photos in Google Earth do not show a 
> church
> there. I drove to these coordinates, and determined that they are for a 
> loading dock
> on the back of an industrial warehouse.
> There are no signs indicating that any congregation meets there; the warehouse
> appears to be in active commercial use. Should I remove this node? -- John F. 
> Eldredge
> -- j...@jfeldredge.com "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do 
> that.
> Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Dr. Martin Luther 
> King, Jr.


In the course of my mapping in the American Midwest, I have come across several 
small country churches of GNIS origin that no longer exist.  Often there will 
be a nearby cemetery, but the church facility is gone.  I simply delete the 
node.  In one case I know of, the church building was converted into a home, so 
I remapped it accordingly.

Mark


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Re: [Talk-us] dubious church node

[Max Erickson]

Yeah, a Google search for "Mill Creek Church nashville" has

http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nashvillearchives/millcreek.html

as an early result. It says the church building has been dismantled
but mentions a cemetery, which still exists nearby the mislocated osm
node:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/53498031#map=16/36.1182/-86.7267


Max

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Re: [Talk-us] dubious church node

[Ed Hillsman]

In my mapping in Albuquerque, I have come across a number of GNIS nodes tagged 
as churches or schools, in built-up areas, that I am unable to find on the 
ground anywhere near the coordinates. I’ve researched a few of them and found 
that they did exist at one time or another but have been demolished or 
incorporated into newer facilities. So I’ve added a note to these that they are 
“historic” but that I can’t pin down their location. Otherwise, I’ve left them 
alone, figuring someone with more knowledge of local history can figure out 
where they were located.

Ed Hillsman


> On Sep 29, 2017, at 5:26 PM, John F. Eldredge  wrote:
> 
> OSM Item 356845407 is a node supposedly marking the location of a church 
> named "Mill Creek Church", at coordinates 36.0972810, -86.7027754 
> . The node 
> history shows two changesets making edits to the node, but no changeset for 
> the creation of the node. It has these tags:
> 
> amenity
>   place_of_worship 
> 
>  
> ele 145
> gnis:county_id037
> gnis:created  05/19/1980
> gnis:feature_id 
>   
> 1306749
> gnis:state_id 47
> name   Mill 
> Creek Church
> religion   
> christian 
> 
> 
> I became curious about this, as aerial photos in Google Earth do not show a 
> church there. I drove to these coordinates, and determined that they are for 
> a loading dock on the back of an industrial warehouse. There are no signs 
> indicating that any congregation meets there; the warehouse appears to be in 
> active commercial use. Should I remove this node? -- John F. Eldredge -- 
> j...@jfeldredge.com "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do 
> that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Dr. Martin 
> Luther King, Jr.
> 
> 
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 
> 
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Re: [Talk-us] dubious church node

[Dave Swarthout]

Glad you mentioned that GNIS import, Ian.

This isn't a pressing issue but I've been doing considerable mapping in
Alaska and encounter GNIS features constantly. Many of them are nodes and
refer to mines, usually abandoned mines, and contain tagging that JOSM
complains about, for example, using landuse=quarry on a node. Sometimes I
delete that tag and add man_made=mineshaft or similar tagging but it's
often not clear if the node is in the proper location. The newer,
high-resolution imagery will often suggest a more likely spot for the node,
and sometimes I'll move the node there, but usually it isn't obvious. There
are also duplicate nodes, that is, mines having the same name but in a
slightly different position and carrying a different GNIS reference number.

Can you provide some guidance about the accuracy of the positions, the
duplication, and perhaps weigh in on possible tagging scenarios?

Thanks,
Dave



On Sat, Sep 30, 2017 at 6:43 AM, Martijn van Exel  wrote:

> If you are interested in cleaning up some of the GNIS imported features in
> a more structured manner, we can create a MapRoulette challenge. In fact,
> there is one already that we can model more of them after. Give it a try:
> http://maproulette.org/map/2774
> Martijn
>
> On Sep 29, 2017, at 5:33 PM, Ian Dees  wrote:
>
> The history of the node shows that I created it 8 years ago:
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/356845407/history
>
> The gnis tags indicate that it probably came in from my (somewhat
> misguided) GNIS import back then. If there's no recent information to
> corroborate the node then feel free to delete it.
>
> On Sep 29, 2017 18:28, "John F. Eldredge"  wrote:
>
>> OSM Item 356845407 is a node supposedly marking the location of a church
>> named "Mill Creek Church", at coordinates 36.0972810, -86.7027754 <
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/36.0972810/-86.7027754>. The node
>> history shows two changesets making edits to the node, but no changeset for
>> the creation of the node. It has these tags:
>>
>> amenity
>> place_of_worship > /wiki/Tag:amenity=place%20of%20worship?uselang=en-US>
>> ele   145
>> gnis:county_id  037
>> gnis:created05/19/1980
>> gnis:feature_id > /wiki/Key:gnis:feature%20id?uselang=en-US>1306749
>> gnis:state_id   47
>> name 
>> Mill Creek Church
>> religion 
>>   christian > /wiki/Tag:religion=christian?uselang=en-US>
>>
>> I became curious about this, as aerial photos in Google Earth do not show
>> a church there. I drove to these coordinates, and determined that they are
>> for a loading dock on the back of an industrial warehouse. There are no
>> signs indicating that any congregation meets there; the warehouse appears
>> to be in active commercial use. Should I remove this node? -- John F.
>> Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com "Darkness cannot drive out darkness;
>> only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."
>> -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>>
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-- 
Dave Swarthout
Homer, Alaska
Chiang Mai, Thailand
Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
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Re: [Talk-us] dubious church node

[Martijn van Exel]

If you are interested in cleaning up some of the GNIS imported features in a 
more structured manner, we can create a MapRoulette challenge. In fact, there 
is one already that we can model more of them after. Give it a try: 
http://maproulette.org/map/2774 
Martijn

> On Sep 29, 2017, at 5:33 PM, Ian Dees  wrote:
> 
> The history of the node shows that I created it 8 years ago:
> 
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/356845407/history 
> 
> 
> The gnis tags indicate that it probably came in from my (somewhat misguided) 
> GNIS import back then. If there's no recent information to corroborate the 
> node then feel free to delete it. 
> 
> On Sep 29, 2017 18:28, "John F. Eldredge"  > wrote:
> OSM Item 356845407 is a node supposedly marking the location of a church 
> named "Mill Creek Church", at coordinates 36.0972810, -86.7027754 
>  >. The node 
> history shows two changesets making edits to the node, but no changeset for 
> the creation of the node. It has these tags:
> 
> amenity
> place_of_worship 
>   
> >
>  
> ele  >  145
> gnis:county_id  037
> gnis:created05/19/1980
> gnis:feature_id 
>  > 
>1306749
> gnis:state_id   47
> name  >Mill 
> Creek Church
> religion  >
> christian 
>  >
> 
> I became curious about this, as aerial photos in Google Earth do not show a 
> church there. I drove to these coordinates, and determined that they are for 
> a loading dock on the back of an industrial warehouse. There are no signs 
> indicating that any congregation meets there; the warehouse appears to be in 
> active commercial use. Should I remove this node? -- John F. Eldredge -- 
> j...@jfeldredge.com  "Darkness cannot drive out 
> darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can 
> do that." -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
> 
> 
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus 
> 
> 
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Re: [Talk-us] dubious church node

[Ian Dees]

The history of the node shows that I created it 8 years ago:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/356845407/history

The gnis tags indicate that it probably came in from my (somewhat
misguided) GNIS import back then. If there's no recent information to
corroborate the node then feel free to delete it.

On Sep 29, 2017 18:28, "John F. Eldredge"  wrote:

> OSM Item 356845407 is a node supposedly marking the location of a church
> named "Mill Creek Church", at coordinates 36.0972810, -86.7027754 <
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/36.0972810/-86.7027754>. The node
> history shows two changesets making edits to the node, but no changeset for
> the creation of the node. It has these tags:
>
> amenity
> place_of_worship  /wiki/Tag:amenity=place%20of%20worship?uselang=en-US>
> ele   145
> gnis:county_id  037
> gnis:created05/19/1980
> gnis:feature_id  uselang=en-US>1306749
> gnis:state_id   47
> name 
> Mill Creek Church
> religion 
>   christian  /wiki/Tag:religion=christian?uselang=en-US>
>
> I became curious about this, as aerial photos in Google Earth do not show
> a church there. I drove to these coordinates, and determined that they are
> for a loading dock on the back of an industrial warehouse. There are no
> signs indicating that any congregation meets there; the warehouse appears
> to be in active commercial use. Should I remove this node? -- John F.
> Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only
> light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." --
> Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
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[Talk-us] dubious church node

[John F. Eldredge]

OSM Item 356845407 is a node supposedly marking the location of a church 
named "Mill Creek Church", at coordinates 36.0972810, -86.7027754 
. The node 
history shows two changesets making edits to the node, but no changeset 
for the creation of the node. It has these tags:


amenity
	place_of_worship 
 


ele 145
gnis:county_id  037
gnis:created05/19/1980
gnis:feature_id 
 
	1306749

gnis:state_id   47
name  	Mill 
Creek Church
religion  
	christian 



I became curious about this, as aerial photos in Google Earth do not 
show a church there. I drove to these coordinates, and determined that 
they are for a loading dock on the back of an industrial warehouse. 
There are no signs indicating that any congregation meets there; the 
warehouse appears to be in active commercial use. Should I remove this 
node? -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com "Darkness cannot drive 
out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only 
love can do that." -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Do you Tag those as cycleway?

[André Pirard]

On 2017-09-29 22:46, eMerzh wrote:
> just another example a little more cycleway...
> https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=GnblTsSKolUsjQ6URC0zyg=photo=50.86767032=4.3280441=17=0.510308202857=0.4999=0
>
> but still for me the delimitations are not really clear ... and
> calling that a cycleway seems. unfair :p
>
> 2017-09-29 22:42 GMT+02:00 eMerzh  >:
>
> hi,
>
> i stumble upon some streets that have small cycles drawn on the
> street now and then, and often there are small dashed line at the
> start or the end of the street,
> but tagging those as cycleway seems a bit weird as there are no
> clear delimitations...
>
>
> How to you tag thoses?
>
>
> An example :
> 
> https://www.google.be/maps/@50.8674422,4.3297542,3a,60y,141.06h,86.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1srWr6HwmC8P9LgEfOSk2Xpg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
> 
> 
>
>
> Thanks
>
Why not ask the police?
Isn't it their job to inform about doubtful road signs?
For the fun, send them the URL of the wiki and say "please choose".
And post the answer back here !!!
And if they answer that those signs are lookalikes, answer that
lookalikes must be fined ;-)

Cheers

André.





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Re: [Talk-it] Import numeri civici Trento

[Maurizio Napolitano]

> Maurizio, mi spiace di essere stato brusco ma è dovuto a una mia mancanza di
> tempo. Tu dici che Daniele è fermo al punto 2 delle guidelines. Bene, ma
> dalla sua prima mail sembrava poco prima del punto 6.

Capisco il tuo punto di vista.
Più che altro quel "lunedi procedo" ha spaventato un po'

> La pagina wiki deve essere in inglese perché poi deve essere commentata
> nella ML di import e il parere della ML di import è vincolante.

Certo.
Per la discussione in italiano però è meglio l'italiano :)
In ogni caso il percorso è ancora lungo.

> Attendo il resto della documentazione prevista per potere capire meglio.
> Inoltre, chi parteciperà all'import? Quali sono i loro account di import?

L'idea è avere un account dal nome trento_import.
In effetti questo Daniele non lo ha scritto.

> Qual è la pianificazione?

appena arriva l'ok lancia lo script

> E' possibile vedere i dati che verranno importati
> (già trasformati)?

Lo script il cui codice è stato reso pubblico usa le API di OSM.
Se serve convertirlo in .osm allora si può fare

> Come verrà fatta la fase di QA?

è già stata fatta tutta una analisi - documentata su github (che poi
era il lavoro di stage di Daniele) - di confronto fra i dati erogati
dal comune di trento e quelli presenti in openstreetmap.
Fra le azioni sono state fatte anche le verifiche in merito ai nomi
delle vie visto che, il dataset del comune usa nomi "compressi" mentre
osm nomi "estesi".
Daniele, con la sua serie di script e di pulizie con openrefine ha individuato:
- i dati già presenti in osm e comparato con quelli del comune
- dove ha trovato corrispondenza di contenuto ed una distanza fra i
punti ragionevole (= larghezza di un edifico che contiene un civico)
ha marcato i dati del comune come già presenti in osm (ergo cancellati
dal potenziale dataset di importazione)
- dove ha trovato corrispondenza geografica (o comunque in un intorno)
è andato a verificare cosa mancava e, nei casi più complessi, è andato
sul posto
Dopo queste impostazioni ha isolato i dati.
Tutto il codice è la procedura è rilasciata su github con
documentazione in inglese -
https://github.com/danielezotta/osm_civici_trento .
Fra le verifiche ha controllato anche l'esistenza della strada oltre
che del civico (il risultato ha dato
completa copertura delle strade).
Probabilmente questi passaggi ti erano sfuggiti o, molto più
probabilmente, non sono coerenti con le linee guida.
In tal caso l'invito è a segnalare cosa non va.


Come scritto più volte Daniele ha affrontato questo all'interno di uno
stage scolastico dove, il primo
fine, era quello di insegnarli strumenti, avvicinarlo all'open data e
a openstreetmap.
Quello dell'import è un percorso che ha costruito e ragionato nel tempo.



> Detto questo, non ho nulla a priori contro qualsiasi tipo di import, però le
> guidelines sono state scritte per evitare problemi.

Yep
Infatti il prox passaggio è quello di scrivere a imp...@openstreetmap.org

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Centre commercial déplacé

[Florian_G]

Le 29/09/2017 à 22:44, Lionel Allorge a écrit :
> 
> Oui c'est bien cela.
> 

Ok. Du coup, le plus simple est d'utiliser les imageries Cadastre pour
les bâtiments et BDOrtho IGN pour le reste visible du ciel.
C'est ce que je viens de faire (j'avais trop envie, c'est une vraie
drogue ce projet !). ;-)

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Do you Tag those as cycleway?

[Jo]

It's not only in Brussels that they had leftover paint. Maybe it would have
been better if they had drawn some flowers...

They are indeed meaningless as far as traffic rules go. I guess they only
mean something to the politicians who decided to draw them.

Polyglot

2017-09-29 22:56 GMT+02:00 Wouter Hamelinck :

> Ah, Brussels where they think that painting cycles randomly in streets and
> on sidewalks results in cycling infrastructure.
> It is very simply. The meaning of those painted cycles is the same as when
> they would have painted flowers or hearts or something; none whatsoever. It
> doesn't mean anything. Maybe that they had some remnants of paint that they
> wanted to get rid of.
> The practical answer is that you don't tag them.
>
> wouter
>
> On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 10:42 PM, eMerzh  wrote:
>
>> hi,
>>
>> i stumble upon some streets that have small cycles drawn on the street
>> now and then, and often there are small dashed line at the start or the end
>> of the street,
>> but tagging those as cycleway seems a bit weird as there are no clear
>> delimitations...
>>
>>
>> How to you tag thoses?
>>
>>
>> An example :
>> https://www.google.be/maps/@50.8674422,4.3297542,3a,60y,141.
>> 06h,86.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1srWr6HwmC8P9LgEfOSk2Xpg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> "Den som ikke tror på seg selv kommer ingen vei."
>- Thor Heyerdahl
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] GeoCodage et uMap

[Cédric Frayssinet]

Le 29/09/2017 à 23:24, Christian Quest a écrit :
> Si tu as juste le nom de l'établissement et la commune, c'est chaud...
> pas de code UAI d'établissement (il est dans l'adresse email générique
> des établissements) ?

Si, je peux l'avoir effectivement, j'ai vu qu'il était dans les tags des
établissements scolaires. Disons que là, çà me fait retravailler le fichier.

Avec le moteur http://photon.komoot.de/ çà semblait bien fonctionner
avec simplement le nom et la commune, c'est pourquoi j'étais parti sur
cette idée...

Et avec l'UAI, quelle serait la technique ?

Merci pour ton aide,

Cédric


>
>
>
> -- 
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>
>
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Re: [Talk-it-lazio] [Talk-it] nasoni / was Parlano di noi su Repubblica :-)

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 29. Sep 2017, at 23:00, Lorenzo Mastrogiacomi  wrote:
> 
> Il drinking_water:type= che hai proposto secondo me non è l'ideale perché 
> potrebbe anche indicare il tipo di acqua. Naturale o frizzante? :)


si, è vero, sarebbe un’altra interpretazione. Probabilmente dovremmo definire 
un tag e documentare il suo significato. Il drinking_water:type è nato da type 
che non si poteva (più) usare. Il fatto che esiste oramai anche una proprietà 
drinking_water=yes/no lo rende un po’ ambiguo.

Ci potrebbero essere altri tag per questi dettagli:
sparkling_water=yes/no/natural etc.
mineral_water=yes/no
sulfuric_water=yes/no (oppure direttamente l’indicazione della concentrazione 
di certi ioni).
temperatura ecc.

questi sono dei tag molto particolari e probabilmente sarebbero rari anche nel 
caso che fossero già mappati dovunque.

> 
> Chiaro, ma potrebbe essere disused se l'acqua fosse chiusa definitivamente a 
> monte del rubinetto.


si, appunto, ma non è il caso.


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Re: [Talk-it] [Talk-it-lazio] nasoni / was Parlano di noi su Repubblica :-)

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 29. Sep 2017, at 23:00, Lorenzo Mastrogiacomi  wrote:
> 
> Il drinking_water:type= che hai proposto secondo me non è l'ideale perché 
> potrebbe anche indicare il tipo di acqua. Naturale o frizzante? :)


si, è vero, sarebbe un’altra interpretazione. Probabilmente dovremmo definire 
un tag e documentare il suo significato. Il drinking_water:type è nato da type 
che non si poteva (più) usare. Il fatto che esiste oramai anche una proprietà 
drinking_water=yes/no lo rende un po’ ambiguo.

Ci potrebbero essere altri tag per questi dettagli:
sparkling_water=yes/no/natural etc.
mineral_water=yes/no
sulfuric_water=yes/no (oppure direttamente l’indicazione della concentrazione 
di certi ioni).
temperatura ecc.

questi sono dei tag molto particolari e probabilmente sarebbero rari anche nel 
caso che fossero già mappati dovunque.

> 
> Chiaro, ma potrebbe essere disused se l'acqua fosse chiusa definitivamente a 
> monte del rubinetto.


si, appunto, ma non è il caso.


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Re: [Talk-it] Import numeri civici Trento

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 29. Sep 2017, at 22:42, Daniele Zotta  wrote:
> 
> Scusate se rispondo solo ora, ma come da indicazione ecco la pagina in Inglese
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Trentino/Import_housenumbers_Trento


bene, potresti anche linkare i dati processati (in formato osm), quelli da 
importare. 

Ultima domanda: sai come fare un revert? Sennò, fatti aiutare da Napo ;-) Non 
dovrebbe essere necessario, ma casomai qualcosa va male dovresti farlo.

Per l’upload potrebbe avere senso spezzare i dati in pacchi/changeset più 
piccoli (es. 1000 nodi).

Poi, prima che scrivi alla lista import, prima potrai fare l’upload. ;-) Non 
credo che ci saranno grossi problemi (licenza è compatibile, area è ristretta e 
quantità di dati limitata, i civici sono generalmente più facili da importare 
che per esempio le strade. Se non ci sono voci contrastanti dalla comunità 
locale andrà probabilmente tutto liscio).

Non sarebbe male avere ancora qualche parere dei Trentini/della comunità 
locale, fatevi avanti (perché siete gli unici a poter giudicare la bontà dei 
dati).


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] GeoCodage et uMap

[Christian Quest]

Si tu as juste le nom de l'établissement et la commune, c'est chaud... pas
de code UAI d'établissement (il est dans l'adresse email générique des
établissements) ?



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Re: [Talk-ca] Mapping of bilingual destination signs

[Pierre Béland]

Les différentes provinces ou états ont souvent un organisme responsable de 
faire l'inventaire des noms officiels. Au Québec,  c'est la Commission de 
toponymie qui est responsable.http://www.toponymie.gouv.qc.ca/ct/accueil.aspx

Sur leur site, on retrouve des listes de noms et les règles qui s'appliquent 
pour les noms au Québec. 
Pour les règles, voir 
http://www.toponymie.gouv.qc.ca/ct/normes-procedures/regles-ecriture/

Les noms affichés sur Geobase.ca correspondent souvent à ces règles puisque les 
données de Ressources naturelles Canada sont fournies par les provinces. Par 
contre, il peut y avoir un certain retard lors de modifications de noms. Dans 
la section Fournisseurs d'image de JOSM, on retrouve un lien vers la couche RRN 
de Geobase. Les données sont aussi disponibles par province en 
shapefile.http://ouvert.canada.ca/data/fr/dataset/3d282116-e556-400c-9306-ca1a3cada77f

cordialement 
Pierre 


  De : john whelan 
 À : Martijn van Exel  
Cc : Talk-CA OpenStreetMap 
 Envoyé le : vendredi 29 Septembre 2017 16h52
 Objet : Re: [Talk-ca] Mapping of bilingual destination signs
   
Whilst I think about it Ottawa is an amalgam of smaller municipalities so is 
slowly changing street names to avoid duplicates.  I seem to recall an employee 
in the street naming bit is adjusting street names in OSM.  So please do not 
change a street name to match a photo that might have been taken some time ago.
In Quebec I understand province wide the standard for names on maps is "Rue 
xyz" in Ontario it is left to the municipality whether to capitalise the first 
letter or not so you need to know the rules for each municipality.
Have fun
Cheerio John
On 29 Sep 2017 4:20 pm, "john whelan"  wrote:

Ottawa is one of the few places that has bilingual street names.
On the same street I've seen just the name, name street and rue name street 
signs.
In Ottawa the majority are Slater street in name then rue Slater in 
name:french. 
Anything else means it is difficult to search for the name electronically.  
"rue Slater Street"  is not easy to enter.
Note for Ottawa it is rue Slater not Rue Slater.  Other places such as Quebec 
may have different rules.
Cheerio John    .
On 29 Sep 2017 4:10 pm, "Martijn van Exel"  wrote:

Hi all, 
How do you map bilingual signposts? Ones that say for example 'Rue Regent 
St'?My thought would be destination:street=[name in primary language for the 
province] and destination:street:en / destination:street:fr for the name in the 
other language. But I've also seen just 'destination:street:Rue Regent St'.
My team would like to help make this consistent if you're up for that, but what 
should be the convention? From a machine parsing perspective, separating out 
the languages in separate tags is preferable.
We have a ticket for this question as well, https://github.com/Telen 
avMapping/mapping-projects/ issues/27
Thanks / MerciMartijn
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[Talk-ca] Brève analyse, Statistiques des contributeurs OSM

[Pierre Béland]

Dans la chronique [Talk-ca] Building Canada 2020 initiative, John Whelan 
faisait mention ce matin de mon analyse twitter des contributeurs OSM. Tout 
cela en 140 caractères!
voir https://twitter.com/pascal_n/status/893573996364673024

Ce ne sont là que des données préliminaires. Je suis à compléter l'analyse et 
publierai ensuite sur OSM.
 Cette brève analyse était en réponse à un tweet de Pascal Neis sur le nombre 
de contributeurs depuis 2004 selon le nombre de changesets créés (sessions 
d'édition). On fait souvent référence à ces grands chiffres cumulant le nombre 
de contributeurs depuis 2004 avoisinant le million. On les retrouve aussi sur 
la page wiki des statistiques OSM. 

On mentionne aussi qu'il y a de grands flux d'entrée et de sortie et j'ai voulu 
montrer cette autre perspective, faire ressortir le grands flux d'entrée et de 
sortie des contributeurs OSM. 

Deux problèmes lorsque l'on veut examiner les contributions OSM avec ces 
données cumulatives. Si on compte le nombre de personnes qui ont eu un emploi 
au Canada depuis 2004, peux-t-on dire Il y xxx millions de travailleurs au 
Canada. Ensuite le profil des activités. On  compte ici des contributeurs à 
temps plein, à temps partiel et très pontuels (ie une heure, une journée maxi). 

D'un côté, il y a des contributeurs «plus permanents» qui traitent de grands 
volumes de données, d'autres qui contribuent régulièrement «à temps partiel» 
pour leur activité préférée tel vélo, randonnée, et d'autres qui ont une 
intervention ponctuelle et ajoutent leur restaurant préféré ou participent un 
seul soir à un mapathon et ne reviennent pas par la suite.
Si on  regarde les «gros chiffres» de contributeurs de plus près, on constate 
de très grands flux de nouveaux contributeurs, la très grande majorité de 
participant que quelques jours ou n'ajoutent que quelques données. 

De 2004 à août 2017,on compte 944,000 contributeurs qui ont édité au moins une 
node. Parmi eux, 895,000 ont créé moins de 100 changesets. Il y a des nouveaux 
qui sauvegardent après chaque immeuble ou POI créé. C'est donc très peu. Ils 
représentent 95% des contributeurs mais uniquement 6% des objets édités. En 
moyenne, ils ont chacun édités, durant tout leur séjour comme contributeur OSM, 
100 objets (ie. node, chemin ou relation).  Cela représente 500 POI ou encore 
100 maisons. En comparaison, les 41,500 contributeurs avcec 100 à  1,500 
changesets (Casual Mapper) ont édité en moyenne 140,000 objets.  

Puis ensuite les très gros contributeurs, les BOTS, les comptes d'importation 
avec eux de très gros chiffres. Un compte Import US pour les données Tiger a 
édité à lui seul en 2007 147,642,297 d'objets (ie. node, chemin ou relation) en 
159 jours. Un bot du DWG a ensuite enlevé une bonne partie de ces objets par la 
suite.  

Depuis 2004, seuls 50,000 contributeurs à travers la planète ont créé plus de 
100 changesets.  Le graphique des contributeurs par mois sur la page wiki 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Stats#Active_contributors_per_month nous 
indique que de 30,000 à 40,000 contributeurs sont actifs à chaque mois.  Encore 
ici, une analyse des flux montre qu'une grande majorité de ces contributions 
sont ponctuelles.. La forte hausse en 2016 était dû en bonne partie à des 
comptes Maps.Me où des usagers de l'application ajoutaient leur maison 
personnelle etc
Et tout comme Statistique Canada, il nous faudrait affiner nos statistiques 
mensuelles de participation et distinguer selon le niveau d'activité (ie temps 
plein, temps partiel,  contribution ponctuelle, etc). 
Pierre 
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Re: [Talk-ca] Mapping of bilingual destination signs

[john whelan]

OSMand will show street names in Ottawa in either English or French as will
Maperitive but I don't recall seeing destination:street=Rue Regent

Cheerio John

On 29 Sep 2017 4:23 pm, "James"  wrote:

Also do cosumers use destination:street:[lang code]? Is it a standard or
just invented?

That seems to be in the Montreal area(guessing) so i'd put
destination:street=Rue Regent
destination:street:en=Regent Street

just like street names.
Name=default language and then you can addon name:fr or name:en


On Sep 29, 2017 4:17 PM, "James"  wrote:

Rue Regent St is incorrect. Rue Regent is french and Regent Street would be
English. Just the fact that Street is shorten to St is wrong as osm fully
expands names

On Sep 29, 2017 4:10 PM, "Martijn van Exel"  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> How do you map bilingual signposts? Ones that say for example 'Rue Regent
> St'?
> My thought would be destination:street=[name in primary language for the
> province] and destination:street:en / destination:street:fr for the name in
> the other language. But I've also seen just 'destination:street:Rue Regent
> St'.
>
> My team would like to help make this consistent if you're up for that, but
> what should be the convention? From a machine parsing perspective,
> separating out the languages in separate tags is preferable.
>
> We have a ticket for this question as well, https://github.com/Telen
> avMapping/mapping-projects/issues/27
>
> Thanks / Merci
> Martijn
>
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>

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Re: [Talk-it] [Talk-it-lazio] nasoni / was Parlano di noi su Repubblica :-)

[Lorenzo Mastrogiacomi]

Il giorno ven, 29/09/2017 alle 21.45 +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer ha
scritto:
> 
> questo sarebbe un rubinetto, i nasoni per la stragrande maggioranza
> non hanno rubinetti

Mmm, che follia :)
Credo che se lo mapperei comunque come water_tap anche se il comando
non è accessibile.
Il drinking_water:type= che hai proposto secondo me non è l'ideale
perché potrebbe anche indicare il tipo di acqua. Naturale o frizzante?
:)

>  (visibili/accessibili). Poi un rubinetto chiuso non è in disuso, è
> semplicemente chiuso (è proprio l’uso del rubinetto di poter essere
> aperto e chiuso).
> 

Chiaro, ma potrebbe essere disused se l'acqua fosse chiusa
definitivamente a monte del rubinetto.


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Do you Tag those as cycleway?

[Wouter Hamelinck]

Ah, Brussels where they think that painting cycles randomly in streets and
on sidewalks results in cycling infrastructure.
It is very simply. The meaning of those painted cycles is the same as when
they would have painted flowers or hearts or something; none whatsoever. It
doesn't mean anything. Maybe that they had some remnants of paint that they
wanted to get rid of.
The practical answer is that you don't tag them.

wouter

On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 10:42 PM, eMerzh  wrote:

> hi,
>
> i stumble upon some streets that have small cycles drawn on the street now
> and then, and often there are small dashed line at the start or the end of
> the street,
> but tagging those as cycleway seems a bit weird as there are no clear
> delimitations...
>
>
> How to you tag thoses?
>
>
> An example :
> https://www.google.be/maps/@50.8674422,4.3297542,3a,60y,
> 141.06h,86.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1srWr6HwmC8P9LgEfOSk2Xpg!
> 2e0!7i13312!8i6656
>
>
> Thanks
>
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>


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Re: [Talk-ca] Mapping of bilingual destination signs

[john whelan]

Whilst I think about it Ottawa is an amalgam of smaller municipalities so
is slowly changing street names to avoid duplicates.  I seem to recall an
employee in the street naming bit is adjusting street names in OSM.  So
please do not change a street name to match a photo that might have been
taken some time ago.

In Quebec I understand province wide the standard for names on maps is "Rue
xyz" in Ontario it is left to the municipality whether to capitalise the
first letter or not so you need to know the rules for each municipality.

Have fun

Cheerio John

On 29 Sep 2017 4:20 pm, "john whelan"  wrote:

> Ottawa is one of the few places that has bilingual street names.
>
> On the same street I've seen just the name, name street and rue name
> street signs.
>
> In Ottawa the majority are Slater street in name then rue Slater in
> name:french.
>
> Anything else means it is difficult to search for the name electronically.
>  "rue Slater Street"  is not easy to enter.
>
> Note for Ottawa it is rue Slater not Rue Slater.  Other places such as
> Quebec may have different rules.
>
> Cheerio John
> .
>
> On 29 Sep 2017 4:10 pm, "Martijn van Exel"  wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> How do you map bilingual signposts? Ones that say for example 'Rue Regent
>> St'?
>> My thought would be destination:street=[name in primary language for the
>> province] and destination:street:en / destination:street:fr for the name in
>> the other language. But I've also seen just 'destination:street:Rue Regent
>> St'.
>>
>> My team would like to help make this consistent if you're up for that,
>> but what should be the convention? From a machine parsing perspective,
>> separating out the languages in separate tags is preferable.
>>
>> We have a ticket for this question as well, https://github.com/Telen
>> avMapping/mapping-projects/issues/27
>>
>> Thanks / Merci
>> Martijn
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Do you Tag those as cycleway?

[eMerzh]

just another example a little more cycleway...
https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=GnblTsSKolUsjQ6URC0zyg=photo=50.86767032=4.3280441=17=0.510308202857=0.4999=0

but still for me the delimitations are not really clear ... and calling
that a cycleway seems. unfair :p

2017-09-29 22:42 GMT+02:00 eMerzh :

> hi,
>
> i stumble upon some streets that have small cycles drawn on the street now
> and then, and often there are small dashed line at the start or the end of
> the street,
> but tagging those as cycleway seems a bit weird as there are no clear
> delimitations...
>
>
> How to you tag thoses?
>
>
> An example :
> https://www.google.be/maps/@50.8674422,4.3297542,3a,60y,
> 141.06h,86.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1srWr6HwmC8P9LgEfOSk2Xpg!
> 2e0!7i13312!8i6656
>
>
> Thanks
>
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[OSM-talk-be] Do you Tag those as cycleway?

[eMerzh]

hi,

i stumble upon some streets that have small cycles drawn on the street now
and then, and often there are small dashed line at the start or the end of
the street,
but tagging those as cycleway seems a bit weird as there are no clear
delimitations...


How to you tag thoses?


An example :
https://www.google.be/maps/@50.8674422,4.3297542,3a,60y,141.06h,86.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1srWr6HwmC8P9LgEfOSk2Xpg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


Thanks
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Re: [Talk-it] Import numeri civici Trento

[Daniele Zotta]

Scusate se rispondo solo ora, ma come da indicazione ecco la pagina in
Inglese
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Trentino/Import_housenumbers_Trento


Il giorno 29 settembre 2017 17:23, Andrea Musuruane  ha
scritto:

> 2017-09-29 17:08 GMT+02:00 Maurizio Napolitano :
>
>>
>> Lunedì???
>>
>>
>>
>> Ciao
>> ho già commentato la questione
>> Dal mio punto di vista non c'è problema ad attendere
>>
>> Mi sembra manchino diversi passaggi descritti qui:
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines
>>
>>
>> A me invece sembra che stia seguendo i passaggi, tant'è che è fermo al
>> punto due.
>> Qui ha aperto la discussione con la comunità.
>> Fino a che non la passa è ovvio che non prosegue.
>> Ammetto che ha proposto una data per l'import ma è anche vero che è stato
>> già stoppato dalla comunità
>> Forse interpreto male?
>>
>>
>> Ad iniziaare dal fatto che la pagina di import deve essere scritta in
>> inglese.
>>
>>
>> Deve oppure è preferibile che sia scritta in inglese?
>> Chiedo solo per il fatto che sul wiki abbiamo molte pagine dove si
>> documentano import e sono scritte in Italiano.
>> Al di là di questo è chiaro che, appena questa discussione approverà
>> l'import poi Daniele dovrà comunicarlo al data working group e, dovrà farlo
>> in inglese (come ha poi fatto nella descrizione dei suoi script pubblicati
>> su GitHub)
>>
>
> Maurizio, mi spiace di essere stato brusco ma è dovuto a una mia mancanza
> di tempo. Tu dici che Daniele è fermo al punto 2 delle guidelines. Bene, ma
> dalla sua prima mail sembrava poco prima del punto 6.
>
> La pagina wiki deve essere in inglese perché poi deve essere commentata
> nella ML di import e il parere della ML di import è vincolante.
>
> Attendo il resto della documentazione prevista per potere capire meglio.
> Inoltre, chi parteciperà all'import? Quali sono i loro account di import?
> Qual è la pianificazione? E' possibile vedere i dati che verranno importati
> (già trasformati)? Come verrà fatta la fase di QA?
>
> Detto questo, non ho nulla a priori contro qualsiasi tipo di import, però
> le guidelines sono state scritte per evitare problemi.
>
> Ciao,
>
> Andrea
>
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Mapping of bilingual destination signs

[James]

Also do cosumers use destination:street:[lang code]? Is it a standard or
just invented?

That seems to be in the Montreal area(guessing) so i'd put
destination:street=Rue Regent
destination:street:en=Regent Street

just like street names.
Name=default language and then you can addon name:fr or name:en


On Sep 29, 2017 4:17 PM, "James"  wrote:

Rue Regent St is incorrect. Rue Regent is french and Regent Street would be
English. Just the fact that Street is shorten to St is wrong as osm fully
expands names

On Sep 29, 2017 4:10 PM, "Martijn van Exel"  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> How do you map bilingual signposts? Ones that say for example 'Rue Regent
> St'?
> My thought would be destination:street=[name in primary language for the
> province] and destination:street:en / destination:street:fr for the name in
> the other language. But I've also seen just 'destination:street:Rue Regent
> St'.
>
> My team would like to help make this consistent if you're up for that, but
> what should be the convention? From a machine parsing perspective,
> separating out the languages in separate tags is preferable.
>
> We have a ticket for this question as well, https://github.com/Telen
> avMapping/mapping-projects/issues/27
>
> Thanks / Merci
> Martijn
>
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>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Mapping of bilingual destination signs

[john whelan]

Ottawa is one of the few places that has bilingual street names.

On the same street I've seen just the name, name street and rue name street
signs.

In Ottawa the majority are Slater street in name then rue Slater in
name:french.

Anything else means it is difficult to search for the name electronically.
 "rue Slater Street"  is not easy to enter.

Note for Ottawa it is rue Slater not Rue Slater.  Other places such as
Quebec may have different rules.

Cheerio John
.

On 29 Sep 2017 4:10 pm, "Martijn van Exel"  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> How do you map bilingual signposts? Ones that say for example 'Rue Regent
> St'?
> My thought would be destination:street=[name in primary language for the
> province] and destination:street:en / destination:street:fr for the name in
> the other language. But I've also seen just 'destination:street:Rue Regent
> St'.
>
> My team would like to help make this consistent if you're up for that, but
> what should be the convention? From a machine parsing perspective,
> separating out the languages in separate tags is preferable.
>
> We have a ticket for this question as well, https://github.com/
> TelenavMapping/mapping-projects/issues/27
>
> Thanks / Merci
> Martijn
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Centre commercial déplacé

[Florian_G]

Hello,

Le 29/09/2017 à 09:35, Lionel Allorge a écrit :
> Bonjour,
>
> J'ai constaté qu'un centre commercial à Rambouillet avait été changé de
> place, le nouveau bâtiment du Leclerc étant reconstruit à côté de
> l'ancien et les parkings modifiés; mais OSM n'est pas à jour comme on
> peut le voir en regardant la photo satellite :
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/export#map=18/48.64674/1.85821
>
> Y a-t-il un moyen pour mettre à jour cet endroit, à partir du cadastre
> peut-être, sans avoir à tout refaire à la main ?
>

Le cadastre et la BDOrtho IGN (et Bing, le tout dans JOSM) montrent la
même chose : un gros bâtiment à droite (est), au sud de l'allée des
Narcisses, et les parkings à gauche (ouest).
Dans OSM, le Leclerc est à gauche (ouest) avec le parkings dessous
(sud), dates de dernières modifications en 2013/2014.

Qu'est-ce qui est bon ? Le tout gros bâtiment pas « carré » je suppose ?

++

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Re: [Talk-ca] Mapping of bilingual destination signs

[James]

Rue Regent St is incorrect. Rue Regent is french and Regent Street would be
English. Just the fact that Street is shorten to St is wrong as osm fully
expands names

On Sep 29, 2017 4:10 PM, "Martijn van Exel"  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> How do you map bilingual signposts? Ones that say for example 'Rue Regent
> St'?
> My thought would be destination:street=[name in primary language for the
> province] and destination:street:en / destination:street:fr for the name in
> the other language. But I've also seen just 'destination:street:Rue Regent
> St'.
>
> My team would like to help make this consistent if you're up for that, but
> what should be the convention? From a machine parsing perspective,
> separating out the languages in separate tags is preferable.
>
> We have a ticket for this question as well, https://github.com/
> TelenavMapping/mapping-projects/issues/27
>
> Thanks / Merci
> Martijn
>
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[Talk-ca] Mapping of bilingual destination signs

[Martijn van Exel]

Hi all,

How do you map bilingual signposts? Ones that say for example 'Rue Regent
St'?
My thought would be destination:street=[name in primary language for the
province] and destination:street:en / destination:street:fr for the name in
the other language. But I've also seen just 'destination:street:Rue Regent
St'.

My team would like to help make this consistent if you're up for that, but
what should be the convention? From a machine parsing perspective,
separating out the languages in separate tags is preferable.

We have a ticket for this question as well,
https://github.com/TelenavMapping/mapping-projects/issues/27

Thanks / Merci
Martijn
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] GeoCodage et uMap

[Cédric Frayssinet]

Le 29/09/2017 à 21:32, Christian Quest a écrit :
> Le 29 septembre 2017 à 18:19, Cédric Frayssinet  > a écrit :
>
> Merci de ta réponse Nicolas. Quelques réponses ci-dessous
>
> Le 29/09/2017 à 17:45, Nicolas Dumoulin a écrit :
>>
>> Le géocodeur national permettra de gécoder selon les communes :
>>
>
> Euh... pas que "selon les communes"
>
> C'est quoi le fichier d'origine ? Tu peux le partager ?

Le voici en PJ, simplifié et anonymé.

>
>
>> https://adresse.data.gouv.fr/csv 
>>
>
> L'interface est très réussie et fonctionnelle, mais visiblement,
> il n'aime pas trop les lycées et les collèges, j'ai des adresses
> un peu farfelues. Je pense qu'il lui faut des infos supplémentaires.
>
>
>
> Lycées et collèges ?
>
> Ces données sont déjà géoréférencées par le Ministère de l'Education
> Nationale et en opendata...
>
> http://www.data.gouv.fr/fr/datasets/l-hebergement-des-eleves-dans-les-etablissements-du-second-degre/


Tiens, çà ressemble bien au Ministère de l’Éducation Nationale de
partager au format XLS.

Disons que j'arriverai à trouver les adresses des établissements mais
là, j'ai un listing qu'avec une partie des établissements, non liés aux
adresses postales comme on peut le voir dans le CSV joint.
>
>
>
>
>> Si tu veux utiliser le nom de l'établissement, tente dans cette
>> liste :
>>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Search_engines
>> 
>>
>
> Super cette page ! J'ai trouvé http://photon.komoot.de/ qui est
> vraiment bien fait et qui dispose d'une API.
>
>
> L'API ne fait pas tout... quelles adresses sont derrière ? Seulement
> celle d'OSM à ce qu'il me semble, donc environ 15% des adresses
> françaises :(

Je fais la requête uniquement sur le nom de l'établissement et la
commune, pour les quelques tests réalisés, il semble trouver les
coordonnées GPS, ce qui m'intéresse. Et s'il en manque, ce sera une
bonne occasion de regarder pourquoi c'est incomplet...

Merci, Cédric


>
>
> Sauf que je ne suis pas développeur, mais çà semble assez simple :
>
> Exemple d'une requête http :
>
> 
> http://photon.komoot.de/api/?q=lyc%C3%A9e%20juliette%20r%C3%A9camier%20lyon%202=fr
> 
> 
>
> Et le résultat en JSON :
>
> 
> {"features":[{"geometry":{"coordinates":[4.830498683911657,45.7495013],"type":"Point"},"type":"Feature","properties":{"osm_id":258128918,"osm_type":"W","extent":[4.8298975,45.7499687,4.8311069,45.7491155],"country":"France","osm_key":"amenity","city":"Lyon","street":"Cours
> Verdun
> Recamier","osm_value":"school","postcode":"69002","name":"Lycée
> Juliette
> Récamier","state":"Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes"}}],"type":"FeatureCollection"}
>
>
> Est-ce que quelqu'un disposerait d'un script Python ou a
> connaissance d'une interface pouvant faire ce travail de
> récupération des coordonnées et l'ajouter à mon .csv ? Sinon, je
> ferai travailler mes élèves en spécialité ISN :)
>
>
>> Une fois le fichier géocodé, le plus dur est fait, il ne reste
>> qu'à l'importer dans ta carte umap.
>>
>
> Je te confirme :)
>
>
> Merci, tu m'as bien fait avancer,
>
> Cédric
>
>
> -- 
> Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France
>
>
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-- 
En cure de désintoxication  de
Google ! Client d'Enercoop
, l'énergie militante

Également sur Mastodon : @bristow...@framapiaf.org


Promouvoir et soutenir le logiciel libre 

Etablissement,Commune,Nom,Prénom,Adresse électronique
Collège du Bois de la rive,Unieux,Un,Toto,prenom.n...@ac-lyon.fr
Collège Claude Bernard,Villefranche-sur-Saône,Deux,Toto,prenom.n...@ac-lyon.fr
Collège de la Côte Roannaise,Renaison,Trois,Toto,prenom.n...@ac-lyon.fr
Collège Aimé Césaire,Vaulx-en-Velin,Quatre,Toto,prenom.n...@ac-lyon.fr
LP du Haut Forez,Verrière-en-Forez,Cinq,Toto,prenom.n...@ac-lyon.fr
Collège J.P. Rameau ,Champagne au Mont d'Or,Six,Toto,prenom.n...@ac-lyon.fr
Lycée Aragon,Givors,Sept,Toto,prenom.n...@ac-lyon.fr
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Re: [Talk-it] [Talk-it-lazio] nasoni / was Parlano di noi su Repubblica :-)

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 29. Sep 2017, at 19:58, Lorenzo Mastrogiacomi  wrote:
> 
> Non sarebbe meglio usare man_made=water_tap oppure disused:man_made=water_tap 
> ?


questo sarebbe un rubinetto, i nasoni per la stragrande maggioranza non hanno 
rubinetti (visibili/accessibili). Poi un rubinetto chiuso non è in disuso, è 
semplicemente chiuso (è proprio l’uso del rubinetto di poter essere aperto e 
chiuso).

Ciao,
Martin 



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Re: [Talk-it-lazio] [Talk-it] nasoni / was Parlano di noi su Repubblica :-)

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 29. Sep 2017, at 19:58, Lorenzo Mastrogiacomi  wrote:
> 
> Non sarebbe meglio usare man_made=water_tap oppure disused:man_made=water_tap 
> ?


questo sarebbe un rubinetto, i nasoni per la stragrande maggioranza non hanno 
rubinetti (visibili/accessibili). Poi un rubinetto chiuso non è in disuso, è 
semplicemente chiuso (è proprio l’uso del rubinetto di poter essere aperto e 
chiuso).

Ciao,
Martin 



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Re: [Talk-it] Task incompleto, da me bloccato.

[Alessandro Palmas]

  
  
Il 29/09/2017 19:35, liste DOT girarsi
  AT posteo DOT eu ha scritto:


  Oltre a dare un input alla questione mia, riporto che il server è in
"502 Bad Gateway", penso sia caduto il server (caduto in senso di
spento, non voglio pensar male..) ?


 Casomai date una dritta, grazie.




Il tsk è stato terminato.

Sbiribizio ha dato una mano al server a tirarsi su.
  


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] GeoCodage et uMap

[Christian Quest]

Le 29 septembre 2017 à 18:19, Cédric Frayssinet  a
écrit :

> Merci de ta réponse Nicolas. Quelques réponses ci-dessous
>
> Le 29/09/2017 à 17:45, Nicolas Dumoulin a écrit :
>
> Le géocodeur national permettra de gécoder selon les communes :
>
>
Euh... pas que "selon les communes"

C'est quoi le fichier d'origine ? Tu peux le partager ?


https://adresse.data.gouv.fr/csv
>
>
> L'interface est très réussie et fonctionnelle, mais visiblement, il n'aime
> pas trop les lycées et les collèges, j'ai des adresses un peu farfelues. Je
> pense qu'il lui faut des infos supplémentaires.
>
>
>
Lycées et collèges ?

Ces données sont déjà géoréférencées par le Ministère de l'Education
Nationale et en opendata...

http://www.data.gouv.fr/fr/datasets/l-hebergement-des-eleves-dans-les-etablissements-du-second-degre/




> Si tu veux utiliser le nom de l'établissement, tente dans cette liste :
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Search_engines
>
>
> Super cette page ! J'ai trouvé http://photon.komoot.de/ qui est vraiment
> bien fait et qui dispose d'une API.
>
>
L'API ne fait pas tout... quelles adresses sont derrière ? Seulement celle
d'OSM à ce qu'il me semble, donc environ 15% des adresses françaises :(


Sauf que je ne suis pas développeur, mais çà semble assez simple :
>
> Exemple d'une requête http :
>
> http://photon.komoot.de/api/?q=lyc%C3%A9e%20juliette%20r%
> C3%A9camier%20lyon%202=fr
>
> Et le résultat en JSON :
>
> {"features":[{"geometry":{"coordinates":[4.830498683911657,45.7495013],"
> type":"Point"},"type":"Feature","properties":{"osm_
> id":258128918,"osm_type":"W","extent":[4.8298975,45.7499687,
> 4.8311069,45.7491155],"country":"France","osm_key":"
> amenity","city":"Lyon","street":"Cours Verdun
> Recamier","osm_value":"school","postcode":"69002","name":"Lycée Juliette
> Récamier","state":"Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes"}}],"type":"FeatureCollection"}
>
>
> Est-ce que quelqu'un disposerait d'un script Python ou a connaissance
> d'une interface pouvant faire ce travail de récupération des coordonnées et
> l'ajouter à mon .csv ? Sinon, je ferai travailler mes élèves en spécialité
> ISN :)
>
>
> Une fois le fichier géocodé, le plus dur est fait, il ne reste qu'à
> l'importer dans ta carte umap.
>
>
> Je te confirme :)
>
>
> Merci, tu m'as bien fait avancer,
>
> Cédric
>
>
-- 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Portraying and labelling Countryside Access Map alignments and paths actually walked

[Bob Hawkins]

I apologise to everyone for making a mess of this thread’s title and replying 
twice with the same content.  I shall give myself one hundred lines (for those 
who remember the punishment)!

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Re: [Talk-GB] Portraying and labelling Countryside Access Map

[Bob Hawkins]

It is fortunate for me that Oxfordshire County Council makes its Public Rights 
of Way shown in its Countryside Access Map downloadable.  I have been able to 
load data in .kml format by civil parish to my ‘phone as an overlay to OSM and 
follow the paths, track recording as I walk.  This allows both official and 
unofficial ways to be shown in appropriate circumstances (I appreciate not all 
will be appropriate).
Bob

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Re: [Talk-GB] Access and other tags for a particular Restricted Byway

[Andy Townsend]

On 29/09/2017 19:40, Philip Barnes wrote:



Each needs a case by case survey, any can be motor_vehicle=private or 
destination.


I don't think that's what 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Rjw62/PRoW_Table is trying to 
say - it's saying "there are no motor vehicle rights granted by the 
existence of a restricted byway sign" whereas "there are non-motorised 
vehicle rights".  I probably wouldn't use "=designated" where it says 
(though I know many people do), but other than that I'd agree with what 
it says.  The access column is labelled "Minimum Access Tags", so it is 
just a minimum.


Re "vehicle", strictly speaking you can legally drive a coach and four 
down a restricted byway.  Most of the time you won't physically be able 
to, of course, but that's the difference between what's legal and what's 
practical.


Best Regards,

Andy


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Re: [Talk-ca] Building Canada 2020 initiative

[Pierre Béland]

J'étais au SOTM France en juin. On voit là une organisation forte, très 
développée avec des membres très engagés dans les différentes régions de 
France. Ils ont développé des collaborations avec les autorités locales, ils 
ont des serveurs, offrent différents services tels Osmose, tuiles pour le style 
Humanitaire OSM, serveur Overpass, etc. Dans un tel cas, cela a du sens d'avoir 
une organisation plus structurée. Et des membres capables de s'impliquer et 
être représentatifs des différentes régions.
Mais au Canada, quelle est la situation exactement? Si on se fie aux 
discussions sur talk-ca, on constate peu d'activités. Au Québec entre autres, 
les collaborateurs de Montréal et Québec préfèrent discuter sur leur propre 
groupe de discussion local.
Il me semble prématuré d'incorporer une ONG qui se prétendra pan-canadienne. 
Sinon quelle sera la représentativité de cette ONG, qui la contrôlera ? 

Je penses qu'il faut d'abord développer des organisations locales. Celles-ci 
pourraient ensuite voir l'opportunité de se fédérer au niveau canadien.
Quelques individus ne peuvent pas s'incorporer en utilisant le signe OSM et 
prétendre représentation la communauté OSM du Canada, récolter des fonds au nom 
de la communauté.
Statistique Canada fait un bel énoncé de principe, très évocateur, «Tracer tous 
les immeubles d'ici 2020». Par contre, StatCan n'est pas prêt à s'engager 
malgré ses moyens financiers et expertise. 

Je suis d'accord avec John que c'est un projet irréaliste, que l'on ne pourra 
pas rapidement négocier avec les municipalités pour les licences de données 
ouvertes. Et en avons-nous les moyens?
Et il faudrait plus que cela pour justifier de créer une ONG pan-canadienne.  

 Pierre 


  De : Matthew Darwin 
 À : talk-ca@openstreetmap.org 
 Envoyé le : vendredi 29 Septembre 2017 10h06
 Objet : Re: [Talk-ca] Building Canada 2020 initiative
   
 Another good reason to create an organization that holds the keys to key OSM 
resources... then it can out-survive all of us. :-) 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Access and other tags for a particular Restricted Byway

[Philip Barnes]

On Fri, 2017-09-29 at 18:59 +0100, Bob Hawkins wrote:
> 
> Jerry
> I thank you for your helpful reply.
> One of my difficulties with Restricted Byways is the use of 
> motor_vehicle=no as shown in Robert Whittaker’s table, http://wiki.op
> enstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Rjw62/PRoW_Table.  
> I use vehicle=yes in almost all cases, but there are properties on
> Restricted 
> Byways, as in this case, where I judge that tag to be inappropriate,
> to say the 
> least.

Hi Bob
I had never seen page, it does seem very misleading. Vehicle is an odd
tag, as a vehicle normally includes a bike. Those restrictions kind of
apply to public access by motor_vehicles.

There are two sorts of access when applied to rights of way, those
defined by the designation and what we have a right to do. But then
there are private rights too. You cannot put a blanket motor_vehicle=no
on a right of way, other than a byway it should not have yes but rights
of way (footpaths/bridleways/restricted byways) will often form access
to properties or fields. 

Each needs a case by case survey, any can be motor_vehicle=private or
destination.

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Re: [Talk-GB] Portraying and labelling Countryside Access Map

[Bob Hawkins]

It is fortunate for me that Oxfordshire County Council makes its Public Rights 
of Way shown in its Countryside Access Map downloadable.  I have been able to 
load data in .kml format by civil parish to my ‘phone as an overlay to OSM and 
follow the paths, track recording as I walk.  This allows both official and 
unofficial ways to be shown in appropriate circumstances (I appreciate not all 
will be appropriate).
Bob

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Re: [Talk-GB] Access and other tags for a particular Restricted Byway

[Bob Hawkins]

Jerry
I thank you for your helpful reply.
One of my difficulties with Restricted Byways is the use of motor_vehicle=no as 
shown in Robert Whittaker’s table, 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Rjw62/PRoW_Table.  I use vehicle=yes in 
almost all cases, but there are properties on Restricted Byways, as in this 
case, where I judge that tag to be inappropriate, to say the least.
Bob

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Re: [Talk-it] [Talk-it-lazio] nasoni / was Parlano di noi su Repubblica :-)

[Lorenzo Mastrogiacomi]

drinking_water=yes/no è più una proprietà per indicare se c'è acqua
potabile o meno. Non mi sembra tanto adatto per applicargli un :type.

Non sarebbe meglio usare man_made=water_tap oppure
disused:man_made=water_tap ?
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dwater_tap


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Re: [Talk-it] Task incompleto, da me bloccato.

[liste DOT girarsi AT posteo DOT eu]

Il 29/09/2017 19:32, liste DOT girarsi AT posteo DOT net ha scritto:
> Il 27/09/2017 22:37, liste DOT girarsi AT posteo DOT eu ha scritto:
> Si tratta del tasking al seguente indirizzo:
>
> http://osmit-tm.wmflabs.org/project/26
>
> Siccome ho dovuto lasciare il lavoro incompleto per allontanarmi dal pc,
> scrivo qui per chi se ne vuole occupare, visto per sbaglio ho cliccato
> sul pulsante sbagliato, cioè ho messo come completato, di fatto
> autobloccando il task in oggetto a me... :)
>
> Quindi chiedo a chi vuole andare a finirlo, manca ancora qualche building.
>
> Questo il link diretto al task:
>
> http://osmit-tm.wmflabs.org/project/26#task/148
>
>
>
> grazie e scusate.
>
>


Oltre a dare un input alla questione mia, riporto che il server è in
"502 Bad Gateway", penso sia caduto il server (caduto in senso di
spento, non voglio pensar male..) ?


 Casomai date una dritta, grazie.






-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] GeoCodage et uMap

[Cédric Frayssinet]

Merci de ta réponse Nicolas. Quelques réponses ci-dessous

Le 29/09/2017 à 17:45, Nicolas Dumoulin a écrit :
>
> Le géocodeur national permettra de gécoder selon les communes :
>
> https://adresse.data.gouv.fr/csv
>

L'interface est très réussie et fonctionnelle, mais visiblement, il
n'aime pas trop les lycées et les collèges, j'ai des adresses un peu
farfelues. Je pense qu'il lui faut des infos supplémentaires.



> Si tu veux utiliser le nom de l'établissement, tente dans cette liste :
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Search_engines
>

Super cette page ! J'ai trouvé http://photon.komoot.de/ qui est vraiment
bien fait et qui dispose d'une API.

Sauf que je ne suis pas développeur, mais çà semble assez simple :

Exemple d'une requête http :

http://photon.komoot.de/api/?q=lyc%C3%A9e%20juliette%20r%C3%A9camier%20lyon%202=fr

Et le résultat en JSON :

{"features":[{"geometry":{"coordinates":[4.830498683911657,45.7495013],"type":"Point"},"type":"Feature","properties":{"osm_id":258128918,"osm_type":"W","extent":[4.8298975,45.7499687,4.8311069,45.7491155],"country":"France","osm_key":"amenity","city":"Lyon","street":"Cours
Verdun Recamier","osm_value":"school","postcode":"69002","name":"Lycée
Juliette
Récamier","state":"Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes"}}],"type":"FeatureCollection"}


Est-ce que quelqu'un disposerait d'un script Python ou a connaissance
d'une interface pouvant faire ce travail de récupération des coordonnées
et l'ajouter à mon .csv ? Sinon, je ferai travailler mes élèves en
spécialité ISN :)


> Une fois le fichier géocodé, le plus dur est fait, il ne reste qu'à
> l'importer dans ta carte umap.
>

Je te confirme :)


Merci, tu m'as bien fait avancer,

Cédric

@Nicolas : je t'ai répondu via la liste en espérant que c'était une
erreur :)

>
> Le 26/09/2017 à 18:33, Cédric Frayssinet a écrit :
>>
>> Voici ma première question...
>>
>> Nous avons besoin de créer une map personnalisée et nous avons
>> naturellement pensé à uMap. Notre fichier csv comprends ces colonnes :
>>
>> /Nom Etablissement, Commune, Nom, Prénom, Courriel/
>>
>> Je ne vous cache pas que des collègues ont réussi à faire une carte
>> Google en 2 clics avec ce fichier. Existe-t-il une solution
>> relativement simple pour faire une uMap avec ce type de données ?
>>
>> J'ai trouvé cet excellent site https://dogeo.fr/_apps/DoGeocodeur/
>> qui permet de faire du geocodage, mais c'est à partir d'une adresse
>> précise : n°, rue, CP, commune.
>>
>> Une idée ?
>>
>> Merci d'avance, Cédric
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> En cure de désintoxication  de
>> Google ! Client d'Enercoop
>> , l'énergie militante
>>
>> Également sur Mastodon : @bristow...@framapiaf.org
>> 
>>
>> Promouvoir et soutenir le logiciel libre 
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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>
> -- 
> Nicolas Dumoulin


-- 
En cure de désintoxication  de
Google ! Client d'Enercoop
, l'énergie militante

Également sur Mastodon : @bristow...@framapiaf.org


Promouvoir et soutenir le logiciel libre 

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Re: [Talk-ca] Stats Canada building project

[Matthew Darwin]

Is there anyone on point to drive this activity?


On 2017-09-28 06:58 AM, john whelan wrote:

Looks like we need to talk nicely to Open-Ouvert.

Thanks John

On 27 September 2017 at 21:54, Stewart C. Russell > wrote:


On 2017-09-27 07:00 PM, john whelan wrote:
> No we need to persuade the municipalities to move to the new
standard
> license in the TB kit

Is this initiative published anywhere, John? I virtually
attended the
conference it was supposed to be announced at, and all there is is
Jean-Noé's announcement:
http://open.canada.ca/en/blog/coming-soon-do-it-yourself-open-data-toolkit


I also don't remember any consultation on what it was going to
look like.

 Stewart

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Re: [Talk-GB] Access and other tags for a particular Restricted Byway

[SK53]

One simple rule of thumb: if the postman & delivery drivers go that way
it's =destination not =private.

"Private" roads, better called unadopted roads often get mapped with
access=private in the first instance. This is better reserved for places
where access is clearly limited by a gate or other barrier, as usually the
class of users regarded as entitled to use the road is broader than the
owners. See discussion of "The Park Estate" a few months back.

Jerry

On 29 September 2017 at 16:27, Bob Hawkins  wrote:

> David
> I should have made it clearer: the two signs of which I wrote are one
> above the other at the start of the one Restricted Byway – that, perhaps,
> is the complication.
> Bob
>
>
> 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Portraying and labelling Countryside Access Map alignments and paths actually walked

[SK53]

What I have done in such situations is:


   - Remove designation tags from the actually used paths. Access with
   foot=yes is
   - Add the formal line of the path with the designation tag and access
   tags, but without highway tags.

Specific examples I've mapped in the past couple of years:

   - Laxton Bridleway 2 . This
   is clearly signed from the road, but the line across crops/ploughed field
   is never used, probably because there is a ditch or drain at the road end.
   Andy (SomeoneElse) has also surveyed this path from the current path in use
   which skirts the edge of the wood.
   - Scalford Footpath E27 .
   There is a set-aside strip around the field and this is used in lieu of the
   official line.
   - Scalford Footpath  F22 .
   The official line of this path is built over. There are no traces of the
   path at it's northern end, but it obviously should start from a stile which
   is overgrown by a couple of feet of hawthorn. When I enquired about this
   path, the council wrote back "Unfortunately the farm buildings obstructing
   the Footpath have been there for many years.  This is obviously not
   something the County Council condones but fortunately Footpaths F24 and F22
   do provide alternative access and therefore the problems with F23 take a
   low priority."
   - Stanley Footpath 13 & Dale Abbey Footpaths 26 & 28
    . Two
   fields with a couple of examples of official lines crossing the field
   diagonally and being replaced on the ground by paths closer to the edges of
   the field (and probably reflecting better the actual desire lines of
   regular walkers).

In most cases the tagging is fairly ad hoc to meet the situation that I
encounter. As I am seeing more examples I am adding more information in the
form of additional tags, and in the process being more consistent. In
general I only add the official lines when there is adequate information on
the ground to identify them. For instance there are no traces of Trowell FP
16 on the ground, so I have not added anything to OSM
.

There is a thread from earlier this year discussing a similar issue.

Regards,

Jerry

PS. Apologies for accidentally sending a near-blank message

On 29 September 2017 at 14:35, Bob Hawkins  wrote:

> I should be interested to learn the general consensus regarding definitive
> alignments of Public Rights of Way and paths actually walked, and whether
> contributors have similar predicaments to mine.  I have two cases in
> Shiplake, Oxfordshire:
> 1. Shiplake FP 37  Footpath #528052488
>  Changeset #52405541
> 
> I had labelled the straight line path to the kissing gate before the
> railway as Shiplake FP 37, originally.  Since devoting my time to adding
> PRoW information in the Oxfordshire Chilterns and using Oxfordshire County
> Council’s Countryside Access Map, I have become aware of official path
> alignments.  I pondered long and hard over this issue.  I decided, finally,
> that it would be incorrect to label the straight line to the kissing gate
> before the railway as footpath 37, although this is the path used for a
> long time, and it makes no sense to walk the official alignment in an open,
> grassed field.  There has been nothing official to change its alignment, as
> far as I am aware, however.  I felt the best solution was to map footpath
> 37 as the Countryside Access Map shows, label it as such, and re-label the
> straight line as foot=yes, highway=footway alone.  Should anything arise to
> prevent that, it can be removed instantly without affecting anything else.
> 2. Shiplake FP 10  Footpath #23639524
>  Changeset #52419186
> 
> The opposite applies to footpath 10: walkers in this case take the
> right-angled fence line from the stile (at the junction with Shiplake FP
> 11) towards Plough Lane while the Countryside Access Map shows footpath 10
> crossing the field diagonally from a point before the stile.  This has the
> effect of labelling the short section immediately before the stile wrongly
> as footpath 10 when it should be footpath 11.  I plan to visit the site and
> alter OSM with the same attitude as for footpath 37.
> With regards
> Bob Hawkins
>
>
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] les dates de terrain, de test fonctionnel, d'import, de source

[marc marc]

Bonjour,

Vu que l'inventaire semble complet,je propose de fusionner :
source_date et date:source en faveur du tag majoritaire source:date
date:survey en faveur du tag majoritaire survey:date

ok ? objection ?

Cordialement,
Marc

Le 12. 09. 17 à 14:01, Marc M. a écrit :
> @tous : il ne manque aucun besoin avec ces 3 type survey <> fonctionnel 
> <> source externe ?
> 
> @Christian l'outil est prometteur.
> C'est un bon exemple d'interface simple même si quelques détails 
> serraient utile (valider une porte d'entrée, pas sur de l'utilité).
> Je vais e tester un peu plus pour proposer des améliorations.
> 
> @Violaine
> que veux-tu dire par mixer ? ce serrait au contraire plus clair si on 
> fait 3 catégories bien distincte comparé par exemple au tag check_date 
> où il est impossible de savoir qu'est-ce qui a été précisément vérifié 
> (la position, l’existence, le fonctionnel)
> Exemple fictif : les bornes incendies d'une commune
> Lors de l'import on précise sur le changeset source=lacommune 
> source:date=2015/01/01
> Si quelqu'un voit la borne sur le terrain et veux préciser la date,
> il peux rajouter survey:date=2017/09/12 (sinon on suppose que c'est
> une date proche de la modif, pas besoin de raffiner cela à l’extrême)
> Si un technicien teste la borne comme fonctionnelle, on peux encoder 
> cette information avec operational_status=operating 
> operational_status:date=2017/09/12
> 
> Pour l'étendue de la vérification, c'est justement le reproche que je 
> fais à check_date. on ne sait pas si cela signifie que l'objet a été
> vu sur le terrain, ou si l'objet a été comparé avec une liste opendata
> ou s'il s'agit d'un test fonctionnel.
> Je pense aussi que cela n'a de sens que sur des objets assez précis
> que pour déduire que la vérification est complète.
> On peux dire qu'on a vu un arrêt de bus ou testé une borne.
> Prétendre la même chose sur un hôpital me semble délicat.
> Etait-ce son existence ? son nom ? tout ces tags ?
> Rien n’empêche de préciser capacity:bed:date par exemple
> Peut-être faudrait-il préciser qu'un survey:date par exemple concerne 
> tous les tags d'un objet. mais quid des infos provenant d'un import mais 
> qui sont invérifiable sur le terrain (par exemple le diamètre du tuyau 
> d'alimentation d'une borne lorsque l'info n'est pas sur la plaque) ?
> Je n'ai pas de solution pour améliorer le sens.
> Dupliquer tout les tags avec une date me semble impossible en pratique
> vu la difficulté qu'il y a avec des schémas beaucoup plus simple.
> 
> Le 11. 09. 17 à 21:21, Christian Quest a écrit :
>> La webapp geocropping rend ce process de mise à jour d'une date de 
>> contrôle sur terrain très simple et pas technique du tout.
>>
>> A voir ici: https://geocropping.xsalto.com/
>>
>> Le 11 septembre 2017 à 18:33, Violaine Doutreleau a écrit :
>>
>> Bonjour Marc,
>>
>> Pour moi la difficulté c'est qu'il ne faudrait pas mixer la source
>> d'une information (je suis ok pour  ajouter une info de date en
>> fonction de la source de données), par le check_date ou
>> operational_status:date, qui relève plutôt de la validation de
>> données. J'entends : la donnée est déjà créée, je repasse x jours
>> après sa création pour dire qu'elle est toujours valide. Healthsites
>> prévoit de faire ça sur la thématique santé... Par contre j'aime
>> beaucoup l'idée car on pourrait imaginer de la demande de validation
>> de données si le check_date est trop éloigné de la date du jour aux
>> utilisateurs de gps... Et ça pourrait donner un sacré coup de 
>> pouce ...
>>
>> Par contre j'ai le sentiment que ce n'est pas vraiment la place de
>> la validation, mais d'une base extérieure? Dailleurs ça risque
>> d'être trop tech pour des utilisateurs lambdas d'OSM, et pourtant
>> des informations faciles à donner par n'importe qui.
>>
>> Sinon, une autre difficulté que je trouve c'est qu'il faudrait quasi
>> autant de check_date, que de tags, ou alors définir les éléments que
>> l'on souhaite vérifier. Non? Par exemple pour les centre de santés,
>> c'est pas évident de tout contrôler d'un coup si on est un
>> utilisateur lambda  (pas aussi simple de donner le nombre de staffs
>> par exemple)
>>
>> Juste mes réflexions...
>>
>> A bientôt,
>>
>> V
>>
>>
>> Le 06/09/2017 à 00:16, marc marc a écrit :
>>> Suite à une discussion à propos des dates, j'ai été faire un tour
>>> sur le wiki et taginfo. La problème était simple mais comme souvent
>>> il y a une grande diversité de mise en place.
>>>
>>> Il y a, si j'ai oublié personne, 3 grand besoins :
>>>
>>> - la date où un objet a été vu la dernière fois sur le terrain
>>> survey:date avec toutes les variantes d'ordre et de caractère
>>> de séparation
>>> Ce serrait selon moi le tag à utiliser pour des projets comme 
>>> jungle bus
>>> où certains veulent pouvoir éventuellement vérifier l’existence
>>> d'un objet qui n'a plus été 

Re: [Talk-GB] Access and other tags for a particular Restricted Byway

[Bob Hawkins]

David
I should have made it clearer: the two signs of which I wrote are one above the 
other at the start of the one Restricted Byway – that, perhaps, is the 
complication.
Bob

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Re: [OSM-talk] Osmose-QA - Mapillary traffic signs matching

[Frédéric Rodrigo]

Hello,

You can upload what you see in Mapillary photos. The tools use traffic 
signs extracted by Mapillary and only point out where it seams there is 
something missing.


Yes, we may plan to suggest adding traffic signs as well in addition of 
traffic signs effects.


The future and the generalisation of this project will depend on the 
interest of contributors and the the availability or not of a detected 
traffic signs dump provided by Mapillary.


Regards.


Le 28/09/2017 à 14:20, Martin Koppenhoefer a écrit :

do you intend to upload these to OSM, and if yes, are you going to create 
traffic sign objects or will you add traffic sign information to nearby osm 
objects like roads?


Cheers,
Martin




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Re: [Talk-it] Import numeri civici Trento

[Andrea Musuruane]

2017-09-29 17:08 GMT+02:00 Maurizio Napolitano :

>
> Lunedì???
>
>
>
> Ciao
> ho già commentato la questione
> Dal mio punto di vista non c'è problema ad attendere
>
> Mi sembra manchino diversi passaggi descritti qui:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines
>
>
> A me invece sembra che stia seguendo i passaggi, tant'è che è fermo al
> punto due.
> Qui ha aperto la discussione con la comunità.
> Fino a che non la passa è ovvio che non prosegue.
> Ammetto che ha proposto una data per l'import ma è anche vero che è stato
> già stoppato dalla comunità
> Forse interpreto male?
>
>
> Ad iniziaare dal fatto che la pagina di import deve essere scritta in
> inglese.
>
>
> Deve oppure è preferibile che sia scritta in inglese?
> Chiedo solo per il fatto che sul wiki abbiamo molte pagine dove si
> documentano import e sono scritte in Italiano.
> Al di là di questo è chiaro che, appena questa discussione approverà
> l'import poi Daniele dovrà comunicarlo al data working group e, dovrà farlo
> in inglese (come ha poi fatto nella descrizione dei suoi script pubblicati
> su GitHub)
>

Maurizio, mi spiace di essere stato brusco ma è dovuto a una mia mancanza
di tempo. Tu dici che Daniele è fermo al punto 2 delle guidelines. Bene, ma
dalla sua prima mail sembrava poco prima del punto 6.

La pagina wiki deve essere in inglese perché poi deve essere commentata
nella ML di import e il parere della ML di import è vincolante.

Attendo il resto della documentazione prevista per potere capire meglio.
Inoltre, chi parteciperà all'import? Quali sono i loro account di import?
Qual è la pianificazione? E' possibile vedere i dati che verranno importati
(già trasformati)? Come verrà fatta la fase di QA?

Detto questo, non ho nulla a priori contro qualsiasi tipo di import, però
le guidelines sono state scritte per evitare problemi.

Ciao,

Andrea
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Re: [Talk-it] Import numeri civici Trento

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 29. Sep 2017, at 16:13, Daniele Zotta  wrote:
> 
> Nei casi complicati sono andato sul posto (= ho fatto rilievi)


ottimo, la verifica in loco è uno dei principi più importanti in OSM.

Ciao, Martin 
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Re: [Talk-it] Import numeri civici Trento

[Maurizio Napolitano]

certamente, chiedo scusa se non ho trovato i toni giusti, e spero che non
abbia influito sul suo entusiasmo. Sono contentissimo se il numero di
civici presente in OSM aumenta, ma volevo togliermi dei dubbi su alcune
domande (purtroppo abbiamo già visto troppi import andati male, anche se
giustamente quelli andati male di solito non si fanno vedere qui in lista).
;-)



Fai benissimo
Le tue osservazioni sono molto utili e poi, per fare un import, prima si
deve discutere ;)
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Re: [Talk-it] Import numeri civici Trento

[Maurizio Napolitano]

Lunedì???



Ciao
ho già commentato la questione
Dal mio punto di vista non c'è problema ad attendere

Mi sembra manchino diversi passaggi descritti qui:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines


A me invece sembra che stia seguendo i passaggi, tant'è che è fermo al
punto due.
Qui ha aperto la discussione con la comunità.
Fino a che non la passa è ovvio che non prosegue.
Ammetto che ha proposto una data per l'import ma è anche vero che è stato
già stoppato dalla comunità
Forse interpreto male?


Ad iniziaare dal fatto che la pagina di import deve essere scritta in
inglese.


Deve oppure è preferibile che sia scritta in inglese?
Chiedo solo per il fatto che sul wiki abbiamo molte pagine dove si
documentano import e sono scritte in Italiano.
Al di là di questo è chiaro che, appena questa discussione approverà
l'import poi Daniele dovrà comunicarlo al data working group e, dovrà farlo
in inglese (come ha poi fatto nella descrizione dei suoi script pubblicati
su GitHub)

Al di là dellle polemiche mi sembra che il percorso stia prendendo forma.

La "fretta" di lunedì è solo per il discorso fine stage e per quello di
stimolare la discussione.

Interessanti le osservazioni di Martin sul tema ISTAT e Comune di Trento e
la questione dello stesso civico messo su più posizioni.

@daniele
secondo me potresti pubblicare il dataset con I civici che si potrebbe
importare
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Re: [Talk-it] Import numeri civici Trento

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 29. Sep 2017, at 16:45, Maurizio Napolitano  wrote:
> 
> Ci tengo però a sottolineare che il ragazzo è appena arrivato nel nostro 
> mondo ed ha cominciato a tuffarsi con entusiasmo.


certamente, chiedo scusa se non ho trovato i toni giusti, e spero che non abbia 
influito sul suo entusiasmo. Sono contentissimo se il numero di civici presente 
in OSM aumenta, ma volevo togliermi dei dubbi su alcune domande (purtroppo 
abbiamo già visto troppi import andati male, anche se giustamente quelli andati 
male di solito non si fanno vedere qui in lista). ;-)

Ciao, Martin 



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Re: [Talk-GB] Portraying and labelling Countryside Access Map alignments and paths actually walked

[SK53]

W

On 29 September 2017 at 14:35, Bob Hawkins  wrote:

> I should be interested to learn the general consensus regarding definitive
> alignments of Public Rights of Way and paths actually walked, and whether
> contributors have similar predicaments to mine.  I have two cases in
> Shiplake, Oxfordshire:
> 1. Shiplake FP 37  Footpath #528052488
>  Changeset #52405541
> 
> I had labelled the straight line path to the kissing gate before the
> railway as Shiplake FP 37, originally.  Since devoting my time to adding
> PRoW information in the Oxfordshire Chilterns and using Oxfordshire County
> Council’s Countryside Access Map, I have become aware of official path
> alignments.  I pondered long and hard over this issue.  I decided, finally,
> that it would be incorrect to label the straight line to the kissing gate
> before the railway as footpath 37, although this is the path used for a
> long time, and it makes no sense to walk the official alignment in an open,
> grassed field.  There has been nothing official to change its alignment, as
> far as I am aware, however.  I felt the best solution was to map footpath
> 37 as the Countryside Access Map shows, label it as such, and re-label the
> straight line as foot=yes, highway=footway alone.  Should anything arise to
> prevent that, it can be removed instantly without affecting anything else.
> 2. Shiplake FP 10  Footpath #23639524
>  Changeset #52419186
> 
> The opposite applies to footpath 10: walkers in this case take the
> right-angled fence line from the stile (at the junction with Shiplake FP
> 11) towards Plough Lane while the Countryside Access Map shows footpath 10
> crossing the field diagonally from a point before the stile.  This has the
> effect of labelling the short section immediately before the stile wrongly
> as footpath 10 when it should be footpath 11.  I plan to visit the site and
> alter OSM with the same attitude as for footpath 37.
> With regards
> Bob Hawkins
>
>
> 
>  Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
> 
> <#m_3726063421128278465_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
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Re: [Talk-it] Import numeri civici Trento

[Maurizio Napolitano]

Capito. Non avrebbero dovuto adeguare la numerazione alle regole ISTAT?
Sono dati pre-regolamento ISTAT?


Il Comune di Trento gestisce i civici in maniera quotidiana dal oltre 10
anni.
È il metodo che è pre-ISTAT e non il dataset
Immagino che presto si adegueranno


O non dovevano farlo per motivi dello statuto speciale della regione?



A parte che questa è una competenza della Provincia Autonoma e non della
Regione a statuto speciale (la Regione TAA ha meno competenze che le due
Province) la direttiva sul come raccogliere i dati è arrivata anche qui

http://www.territorio.provincia.tn.it/portal/server.pt/community/gestione_stradario_civici/1060/gestione_stradario_civici/258177

In Alto Adige i civici sono gestiti dalla Provincia e sono stati anche
importati in OSM a suo tempo assieme alle strade.
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Re: [Talk-it] Import numeri civici Trento

[Maurizio Napolitano]

Ciao a tutt*
Chiedo scusa se rispondo solo ora ma ero in trasferta
Daniele ha iniziato il suo stage da me con il discorso dell'alternanza
scuola lavoro prevista dal MIUR
Gli ho fatto varie proposte e quella che lo ha affascinato è stata quella
del confronto fra i dati del Comune di Trento e quelli di Openstreemap
Da qui poi si è appassionato sui numeri civici e sulla possibilità di
importazione.
Nei suoi 20 giorni lavorativi di esperienza ha imparato parecchie cosucce:
qgis, spatialite, proiezioni, spatial sql, licenze open data ecc...
Di sicuro abbiamo acquistato un nuovo valido mapper.

Vengo ora ad alcune domande


> hm, ci spiegheresti meglio cosa centra con "ordine" e "doppioni"? Non
sarebbe meglio avere tutti i civici, invece di solo quelli principali?
Oppure è una questione di quantità e tempo a disposizione?


Come Daniele ha già spiegato il Comune di Trento georefernzia ogni
etichetta che  rappresenta un numero civico.
Questo fa sì che una abitazione si trova ad avere da uno ad un massimo di 4
punti che riportano la stessa informazione ma su coordinate diverse.
Esempio:
- ingresso del cancello
- ingresso della porta dell'abitazione
- ingresso secondario
- ingresso dal garage
Ciascuno riporta lo stesso numero civico e via anche nel caso in cui il
cartellino è appeso su un lato della casa che si affaccia su un altra strada


>- i numeri civici con differenze nei dati sono stati corretti in
>OpenStreetMap con i dati del comune e rimossi dal dataset comunale per
>evitare doppioni
>
>
non capisco, non avevi rimosso quelli presenti in OSM dal dataset del
comune come da voce precedente? Quali sono i dati differenti (posizioni,
numeri e nome strade, ecc.)? Le correzioni in OSM a base di dati dal comune
sono comunque già un import.


Quando vedi che una strada ha il nome sbagliato o qualcuno ha messo il
valore nel tag sbagliato ... correggi

Poi, sul piano del database right, ho qualche dubbio su quello che dici in
termini di contributo significativo


Se siete d'accordo lunedí pensavo di fare l'import su OpenStreetMap.
>



penso sia un po' presto, è vero che ti ho risposto entro un quarto d'ora ma
dobbiamo lasciare anche tempo per gli altri da rispondere. Al solito si
lasciano al meno 2 settimane per commentare ed analizzare.


Concordo su quello che dici.
La "fretta" di Daniele è solo legata al fatto che lunedì termina il suo
stage ma, di per sè, non c'è fretta.
Nelle ultime due settimane purtroppo ci siamo visti poco causa miei impegni
lavorativi.
Ci tengo però a sottolineare che il ragazzo è appena arrivato nel nostro
mondo ed ha cominciato a tuffarsi con entusiasmo.

My2cents
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Re: [Talk-it] Domanda da nuovo arrivato!

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 29. Sep 2017, at 16:34, Andrea Albani  wrote:
> 
> Devi quindi assumere che, in assenza del valore dell'ultimo campo, il nodo è 
> riferito ad una fermata bus.


forse si deve guardare anche il tag public_transport e relativi sottotag?


Ciao, Martin 
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Re: [Talk-it] Import numeri civici Trento

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 29. Sep 2017, at 14:59, Daniele Zotta  wrote:
> 
>  Nel dataset del comune sono mappati anche gli ingressi secondari ad un 
> edificio, ma presentano sempre lo stesso civico dell'ingresso principale. 
> Quindi inserendo anche gli ingressi secondari ci si troverebbe con magari un 
> edificio che presenta 3 indirizzi identici in punti diversi.


Capito. Non avrebbero dovuto adeguare la numerazione alle regole ISTAT? Sono 
dati pre-regolamento ISTAT? O non dovevano farlo per motivi dello statuto 
speciale della regione?

Intanto la tua risposta al problema mi sembra giusto. :-)

Ciao, Martin 
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Re: [Talk-it] Domanda da nuovo arrivato!

[Andrea Albani]

>
> e cioe’ nell’output csv vorrei avere
>
> 23445667, il nome del nodo, 44.233455,11.2345667, bus_stop
> 23445667, il nome del nodo, 44.233455,11.2345667, halt
> 23445667, il nome del nodo, 44.233455,11.2345667, station
>
>
Mi sono scervellato un po' con le query overpass fra variabili, cicli for
etc, ma senza arrivare ad un dunque su quanto richiedi.

Per quanto di mia conoscenza potresti usare una soluzione di compromesso:
se nell'elenco dei campi aggiungi anche "railway" ti riporterà, per i soli
nodi riferiti ad una stazione ferroviaria, la tipologia che cerchi. Per i
nodi relativi alle fermate dei bus, avendo come tag highway, non apparirà
nulla. La query potrebbe essere la seguente:

[out:csv(::id,"name",::lat,::lon,"railway";true;",")][timeout:250];
{{geocodeArea:Italia}}->.searchArea;
(
  node["railway"="station"](area.searchArea);
  node["railway"="halt"](area.searchArea);
  node["highway"="bus_stop"](area.searchArea);
);
out;

Non so se così può essere sufficiente... dipende poi cosa ci devi fare.
Devi quindi assumere che, in assenza del valore dell'ultimo campo, il nodo
è riferito ad una fermata bus.

Ciao
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[Talk-ht] Fwd: J-7

[Fred Moine]

Bonjour,

Pour information un Mooc qui pourrait avoir des éléments intéressants...

En 2015, on avait essayé de proposer des analyses rapides sur les bassins
versants en Haïti pour pauser un diagnostique participatif...

Mais on n'a pas pu aller au bout de la démarche, faute de moyen... Cela
arrive on garde cela sous le coude comme on dit.

Bonne continuation a+ FredM
-- Message transféré --
De : 
Date : 26 septembre 2017 à 08:37
Objet : J-7
À : frmo...@gmail.com


Des rivières et des hommes : hydrologie, hydraulique et géomorphologie
[image: alt text]  Se former en liberté sur la
plateforme FUN
Des rivières et des hommes : hydrologie, hydraulique et géomorphologie

Bonjour à tous,

nous voici à une semaine de la 4ème édition du MOOC "des rivières et des
hommes".
Vous êtes maintenant 2400 inscrits, des quatre coins de la planète, tous
motivés pour mieux comprendre comment gérer durablement nos rivières.
De part vos réseaux de connaissances professionnelles ou universitaires,
vous êtes sans conteste les meilleurs ambassadeurs de ce MOOC. Aussi,
n’hésitez pas à le faire connaitre à votre entourage! Ceci pour élargir à
la fois le cercle de participants et, pourquoi pas, faire naître une
communauté locale d'apprenants.

Nous avons mis en place des réseaux sociaux dans le cadre de ce MOOC :
Vous pouvez suivre notre page Facebook https://www.facebook.com/mooc.RdH,
ou encore suivre le compte Twitter @MOOC_RdH (https://twitter.com/MOOC_RdH).

Nous sommes vraiment ravis de vous retrouver très prochainement,

Au nom de toute l'équipe du MOOC "Des rivières et des hommes", je vous
souhaite une très bonne journée,
Nicolas Gratiot
  *Voir le cours*


Vous recevez ce message car vous êtes inscrit au MOOC Des rivières et des
hommes : hydrologie, hydraulique et géomorphologie

sur la plateforme FUN .
Si vous ne souhaitez plus recevoir de messages concernant ce cours, merci
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Re: [Talk-it] Import numeri civici Trento

[Daniele Zotta]

>
>
>-
>- i numeri civici complicati da interpretare sono stati gestiti e
>modificati manualmente e fisicamente
>
>

anche questo non capisco. Hai fatto rilievi?  Cosa hai fatto nel
particolare?


- manualmente
sono andato a verificare cosa scritto nei dati OpenStreeMap ed ho trovato
casi come nomi di via sbagliati o valori assegnati al tag sbagliato (es. Il
numero del civico su addr:name)
- fisicamente
Nei casi complicati sono andato sul posto (= ho fatto rilievi)


Il giorno 29 settembre 2017 12:35, Martin Koppenhoefer <
dieterdre...@gmail.com> ha scritto:

> 2017-09-29 12:15 GMT+02:00 Daniele Zotta :
>
>> il dataset del comune di Trento é distribuito con licenza CC0
>>
>
>
> ottimo
>
>
>
>>
>>- per una questione di ordine e doppioni si é scelto di inserire solo
>>i numeri civici corrispondenti agli ingressi principali, poiché nel 
>> dataset
>>del comune per uno stesso edificio possono essere registrati altri civici
>>corrispondenti agli ingressi secondari
>>
>>
>
> hm, ci spiegheresti meglio cosa centra con "ordine" e "doppioni"? Non
> sarebbe meglio avere tutti i civici, invece di solo quelli principali?
> Oppure è una questione di quantità e tempo a disposizione?
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>- i numeri civici uguali giá presenti in OpenStreetMap sono stati
>>rimossi dal dataset del comune al fine di avere quelli mancanti in
>>OpenStreetMap
>>
>>
> bene
>
>
>
>>
>>-
>>- i numeri civici con differenze nei dati sono stati corretti in
>>OpenStreetMap con i dati del comune e rimossi dal dataset comunale per
>>evitare doppioni
>>
>>
> non capisco, non avevi rimosso quelli presenti in OSM dal dataset del
> comune come da voce precedente? Quali sono i dati differenti (posizioni,
> numeri e nome strade, ecc.)? Le correzioni in OSM a base di dati dal comune
> sono comunque già un import.
>
>
>
>>
>>-
>>- i numeri civici complicati da interpretare sono stati gestiti e
>>modificati manualmente e fisicamente
>>
>>
>
> anche questo non capisco. Hai fatto rilievi?  Cosa hai fatto nel
> particolare?
>
>
>
>> I numeri civici pronti all'import sono 19987,  i numeri civici presenti
>> in OpenStreetMap al momento sono 6005 nel comune di Trento.
>>
>> Se siete d'accordo lunedí pensavo di fare l'import su OpenStreetMap.
>>
>
>
>
> penso sia un po' presto, è vero che ti ho risposto entro un quarto d'ora
> ma dobbiamo lasciare anche tempo per gli altri da rispondere. Al solito si
> lasciano al meno 2 settimane per commentare ed analizzare.
>
> Ciao,
> Martin
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Building Canada 2020 initiative

[Matthew Darwin]

Another good reason to create an organization that holds the keys to 
key OSM resources... then it can out-survive all of us. :-)



On 2017-09-29 09:41 AM, James wrote:
I and others can give access to people to create projects on the 
tasking manager. I understand that one person might disapear, i'll 
try not to die in the next 2 years ;)


On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 9:37 AM, john whelan > wrote:


But that is only a single person for a project of this size you
need some sort of team approach.  Although buses are fairly safe
the odd one gets hit by a train and if you happen to be sitting
in the front seat you may not be available to sort things out.

Cheerio John

On 29 September 2017 at 09:33, James > wrote:

To answer you question about who would organise the tasking
manager, I'm willing to do so.

On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 9:24 AM, john whelan
> wrote:

A couple of comments:

1. Pierre Beland**
 has identified
95% of contributors only map 6% of the assets.
https://mobile.twitter.com/pierzen/status/910551645498552321

We would need to use those 5% of mappers who do the most
mapping and they have their own agendas and reasons for
mapping. They are more likely to throw their weight
behind something that looks achievable and I'm not sure
this is.

2. I've put up a sample of buildings being mapped from a
mapathon. https://www.jatws.org/johnw/building3.jpg
 as you can
see in my opinion the quality is not suitable for Stats
Canada's use.  Some buildings are grouped together with
others as a single building, others are mapped the wrong
shape or size.  Quite often buildings are omitted. 
There are better examples and there are worse examples

but it is not untypical and it was this experience that
made me suggest the Open Data import route in the first
place.

So Open Data import is better for quality.  Adding tags
to building foot prints is less error prone.

3. There are more than 5,000 municipal governments in
Canada source Stats Can.  It took five years to get the
City of Ottawa to update their Open Data license. 
Treasury Board still hasn't released their Open Data

tool kit for the municipalities.  With good will I
estimate it will take two years to get the Open Data
licenses amended.  Kingston might be a good target. 
With any questions and there will be a number, this

figure can be expected to drift out to three to four
years.  Who is responsible to answer questions, in both
official languages?  Who will make the requests to
municipal governments to adopt a usable Open Data license?

In Ottawa we had the right mix of resources.  We had
enough local mappers to discuss things through which is
part of the import process. We had good will from the
City of Ottawa and they were happy to release building
foot print data which had not been part of their Open
Data so far.  The import process is not simple these
days, it would need  the steps to follow to be
documented and then you get the technical side of the
import.  I'm a fairly experienced mapper and to be
honest I wouldn't attempt the sort of complex import
that was done in Ottawa.  I'm not sure the Ottawa
experience is repeatable more than five thousand times.

We can approach the OSM LWG for an opinion on existing
licenses but they are volunteers and for five thousand
opinions that would take a considerable amount of time
and if the license weren't the TB toolkit ones I
wouldn't even bother.

The community is supposed to be doing this.  Fine but a
project manager and a project plan might make it run
more smoothly.  Data quality will be important so how
will it be verified?  Who will be responsible for
organising task manager tiles for the whole country? Who
will identify the group of mappers who are "local" to a
small municipality?  Remember these have a critical
decision making role to play in the import process.

Have fun.

Cheerio John


On 28 

Re: [Talk-ca] Building Canada 2020 initiative

[James]

I and others can give access to people to create projects on the tasking
manager. I understand that one person might disapear, i'll try not to die
in the next 2 years ;)

On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 9:37 AM, john whelan  wrote:

> But that is only a single person for a project of this size you need some
> sort of team approach.  Although buses are fairly safe the odd one gets hit
> by a train and if you happen to be sitting in the front seat you may not be
> available to sort things out.
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On 29 September 2017 at 09:33, James  wrote:
>
>> To answer you question about who would organise the tasking manager, I'm
>> willing to do so.
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 9:24 AM, john whelan 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> A couple of comments:
>>>
>>> 1. Pierre Beland  has
>>> identified 95% of contributors only map 6% of the assets.
>>> https://mobile.twitter.com/pierzen/status/910551645498552321  We would
>>> need to use those 5% of mappers who do the most mapping and they have their
>>> own agendas and reasons for mapping. They are more likely to throw their
>>> weight behind something that looks achievable and I'm not sure this is.
>>>
>>> 2. I've put up a sample of buildings being mapped from a mapathon.
>>> https://www.jatws.org/johnw/building3.jpg as you can see in my opinion
>>> the quality is not suitable for Stats Canada's use.  Some buildings are
>>> grouped together with others as a single building, others are mapped the
>>> wrong shape or size.  Quite often buildings are omitted.  There are better
>>> examples and there are worse examples but it is not untypical and it was
>>> this experience that made me suggest the Open Data import route in the
>>> first place.
>>>
>>> So Open Data import is better for quality.  Adding tags to building foot
>>> prints is less error prone.
>>>
>>> 3. There are more than 5,000 municipal governments in Canada source
>>> Stats Can.  It took five years to get the City of Ottawa to update their
>>> Open Data license.  Treasury Board still hasn't released their Open Data
>>> tool kit for the municipalities.  With good will I estimate it will take
>>> two years to get the Open Data licenses amended.  Kingston might be a good
>>> target.  With any questions and there will be a number, this figure can be
>>> expected to drift out to three to four years.  Who is responsible to answer
>>> questions, in both official languages?  Who will make the requests to
>>> municipal governments to adopt a usable Open Data license?
>>>
>>> In Ottawa we had the right mix of resources.  We had enough local
>>> mappers to discuss things through which is part of the import process. We
>>> had good will from the City of Ottawa and they were happy to release
>>> building foot print data which had not been part of their Open Data so
>>> far.  The import process is not simple these days, it would need  the steps
>>> to follow to be documented and then you get the technical side of the
>>> import.  I'm a fairly experienced mapper and to be honest I wouldn't
>>> attempt the sort of complex import that was done in Ottawa.  I'm not sure
>>> the Ottawa experience is repeatable more than five thousand times.
>>>
>>> We can approach the OSM LWG for an opinion on existing licenses but they
>>> are volunteers and for five thousand opinions that would take a
>>> considerable amount of time and if the license weren't the TB toolkit ones
>>> I wouldn't even bother.
>>>
>>> The community is supposed to be doing this.  Fine but a project manager
>>> and a project plan might make it run more smoothly.  Data quality will be
>>> important so how will it be verified?  Who will be responsible for
>>> organising task manager tiles for the whole country? Who will identify the
>>> group of mappers who are "local" to a small municipality?  Remember these
>>> have a critical decision making role to play in the import process.
>>>
>>> Have fun.
>>>
>>> Cheerio John
>>>
>>>
>>> On 28 September 2017 at 16:48, Alasia, Alessandro (STATCAN) <
>>> alessandro.ala...@canada.ca> wrote:
>>>
 Hello all!

 Statistics Canada was a partner of the 2017 HOT Summit held in Ottawa,
 Sept 14-15. In parallel to the summit, Statistics Canada hosted a workshop
 to discuss the possibility of launching a community-led initiative titled
 “Building Canada 2020”.

 The goal and vision of this initiative is simple: *map all buildings
 in Canada on OSM by the year 2020*. The workshop was well attended.
 There were about 50 people from various sectors (federal, academic, civic
 group, and private). This was a preliminary discussion amongst a small
 group of people, but now that broad interest has been confirmed more
 stakeholders need to be involved!

 A short summary of the workshop along with a first draft *Roadmap to
 implementation* has been posted on the OSM Wiki at:
 

Re: [Talk-ca] Building Canada 2020 initiative

[john whelan]

But that is only a single person for a project of this size you need some
sort of team approach.  Although buses are fairly safe the odd one gets hit
by a train and if you happen to be sitting in the front seat you may not be
available to sort things out.

Cheerio John

On 29 September 2017 at 09:33, James  wrote:

> To answer you question about who would organise the tasking manager, I'm
> willing to do so.
>
> On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 9:24 AM, john whelan 
> wrote:
>
>> A couple of comments:
>>
>> 1. Pierre Beland  has identified
>> 95% of contributors only map 6% of the assets.
>> https://mobile.twitter.com/pierzen/status/910551645498552321  We would
>> need to use those 5% of mappers who do the most mapping and they have their
>> own agendas and reasons for mapping. They are more likely to throw their
>> weight behind something that looks achievable and I'm not sure this is.
>>
>> 2. I've put up a sample of buildings being mapped from a mapathon.
>> https://www.jatws.org/johnw/building3.jpg as you can see in my opinion
>> the quality is not suitable for Stats Canada's use.  Some buildings are
>> grouped together with others as a single building, others are mapped the
>> wrong shape or size.  Quite often buildings are omitted.  There are better
>> examples and there are worse examples but it is not untypical and it was
>> this experience that made me suggest the Open Data import route in the
>> first place.
>>
>> So Open Data import is better for quality.  Adding tags to building foot
>> prints is less error prone.
>>
>> 3. There are more than 5,000 municipal governments in Canada source Stats
>> Can.  It took five years to get the City of Ottawa to update their Open
>> Data license.  Treasury Board still hasn't released their Open Data tool
>> kit for the municipalities.  With good will I estimate it will take two
>> years to get the Open Data licenses amended.  Kingston might be a good
>> target.  With any questions and there will be a number, this figure can be
>> expected to drift out to three to four years.  Who is responsible to answer
>> questions, in both official languages?  Who will make the requests to
>> municipal governments to adopt a usable Open Data license?
>>
>> In Ottawa we had the right mix of resources.  We had enough local mappers
>> to discuss things through which is part of the import process. We had good
>> will from the City of Ottawa and they were happy to release building foot
>> print data which had not been part of their Open Data so far.  The import
>> process is not simple these days, it would need  the steps to follow to be
>> documented and then you get the technical side of the import.  I'm a fairly
>> experienced mapper and to be honest I wouldn't attempt the sort of complex
>> import that was done in Ottawa.  I'm not sure the Ottawa experience is
>> repeatable more than five thousand times.
>>
>> We can approach the OSM LWG for an opinion on existing licenses but they
>> are volunteers and for five thousand opinions that would take a
>> considerable amount of time and if the license weren't the TB toolkit ones
>> I wouldn't even bother.
>>
>> The community is supposed to be doing this.  Fine but a project manager
>> and a project plan might make it run more smoothly.  Data quality will be
>> important so how will it be verified?  Who will be responsible for
>> organising task manager tiles for the whole country? Who will identify the
>> group of mappers who are "local" to a small municipality?  Remember these
>> have a critical decision making role to play in the import process.
>>
>> Have fun.
>>
>> Cheerio John
>>
>>
>> On 28 September 2017 at 16:48, Alasia, Alessandro (STATCAN) <
>> alessandro.ala...@canada.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello all!
>>>
>>> Statistics Canada was a partner of the 2017 HOT Summit held in Ottawa,
>>> Sept 14-15. In parallel to the summit, Statistics Canada hosted a workshop
>>> to discuss the possibility of launching a community-led initiative titled
>>> “Building Canada 2020”.
>>>
>>> The goal and vision of this initiative is simple: *map all buildings in
>>> Canada on OSM by the year 2020*. The workshop was well attended. There
>>> were about 50 people from various sectors (federal, academic, civic group,
>>> and private). This was a preliminary discussion amongst a small group of
>>> people, but now that broad interest has been confirmed more stakeholders
>>> need to be involved!
>>>
>>> A short summary of the workshop along with a first draft *Roadmap to
>>> implementation* has been posted on the OSM Wiki at:
>>> *https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Canada/Building_Canada_2020*
>>> 
>>>
>>> Everyone that shares the vision of “mapping all buildings in Canada on
>>> OSM by the year 2020” is invited to contribute to the discussion and
>>> the roadmap to implementation. In 

[Talk-GB] Portraying and labelling Countryside Access Map alignments and paths actually walked

[Bob Hawkins]

I should be interested to learn the general consensus regarding definitive 
alignments of Public Rights of Way and paths actually walked, and whether 
contributors have similar predicaments to mine.  I have two cases in Shiplake, 
Oxfordshire:
1. Shiplake FP 37  Footpath #528052488 Changeset #52405541
I had labelled the straight line path to the kissing gate before the railway as 
Shiplake FP 37, originally.  Since devoting my time to adding PRoW information 
in the Oxfordshire Chilterns and using Oxfordshire County Council’s Countryside 
Access Map, I have become aware of official path alignments.  I pondered long 
and hard over this issue.  I decided, finally, that it would be incorrect to 
label the straight line to the kissing gate before the railway as footpath 37, 
although this is the path used for a long time, and it makes no sense to walk 
the official alignment in an open, grassed field.  There has been nothing 
official to change its alignment, as far as I am aware, however.  I felt the 
best solution was to map footpath 37 as the Countryside Access Map shows, label 
it as such, and re-label the straight line as foot=yes, highway=footway alone.  
Should anything arise to prevent that, it can be removed instantly without 
affecting anything else.
2. Shiplake FP 10  Footpath #23639524 Changeset #52419186
The opposite applies to footpath 10: walkers in this case take the right-angled 
fence line from the stile (at the junction with Shiplake FP 11) towards Plough 
Lane while the Countryside Access Map shows footpath 10 crossing the field 
diagonally from a point before the stile.  This has the effect of labelling the 
short section immediately before the stile wrongly as footpath 10 when it 
should be footpath 11.  I plan to visit the site and alter OSM with the same 
attitude as for footpath 37.
With regards
Bob Hawkins

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Re: [Talk-ca] Building Canada 2020 initiative

[James]

To answer you question about who would organise the tasking manager, I'm
willing to do so.

On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 9:24 AM, john whelan  wrote:

> A couple of comments:
>
> 1. Pierre Beland  has identified
> 95% of contributors only map 6% of the assets.
> https://mobile.twitter.com/pierzen/status/910551645498552321  We would
> need to use those 5% of mappers who do the most mapping and they have their
> own agendas and reasons for mapping. They are more likely to throw their
> weight behind something that looks achievable and I'm not sure this is.
>
> 2. I've put up a sample of buildings being mapped from a mapathon.
> https://www.jatws.org/johnw/building3.jpg as you can see in my opinion
> the quality is not suitable for Stats Canada's use.  Some buildings are
> grouped together with others as a single building, others are mapped the
> wrong shape or size.  Quite often buildings are omitted.  There are better
> examples and there are worse examples but it is not untypical and it was
> this experience that made me suggest the Open Data import route in the
> first place.
>
> So Open Data import is better for quality.  Adding tags to building foot
> prints is less error prone.
>
> 3. There are more than 5,000 municipal governments in Canada source Stats
> Can.  It took five years to get the City of Ottawa to update their Open
> Data license.  Treasury Board still hasn't released their Open Data tool
> kit for the municipalities.  With good will I estimate it will take two
> years to get the Open Data licenses amended.  Kingston might be a good
> target.  With any questions and there will be a number, this figure can be
> expected to drift out to three to four years.  Who is responsible to answer
> questions, in both official languages?  Who will make the requests to
> municipal governments to adopt a usable Open Data license?
>
> In Ottawa we had the right mix of resources.  We had enough local mappers
> to discuss things through which is part of the import process. We had good
> will from the City of Ottawa and they were happy to release building foot
> print data which had not been part of their Open Data so far.  The import
> process is not simple these days, it would need  the steps to follow to be
> documented and then you get the technical side of the import.  I'm a fairly
> experienced mapper and to be honest I wouldn't attempt the sort of complex
> import that was done in Ottawa.  I'm not sure the Ottawa experience is
> repeatable more than five thousand times.
>
> We can approach the OSM LWG for an opinion on existing licenses but they
> are volunteers and for five thousand opinions that would take a
> considerable amount of time and if the license weren't the TB toolkit ones
> I wouldn't even bother.
>
> The community is supposed to be doing this.  Fine but a project manager
> and a project plan might make it run more smoothly.  Data quality will be
> important so how will it be verified?  Who will be responsible for
> organising task manager tiles for the whole country? Who will identify the
> group of mappers who are "local" to a small municipality?  Remember these
> have a critical decision making role to play in the import process.
>
> Have fun.
>
> Cheerio John
>
>
> On 28 September 2017 at 16:48, Alasia, Alessandro (STATCAN) <
> alessandro.ala...@canada.ca> wrote:
>
>> Hello all!
>>
>> Statistics Canada was a partner of the 2017 HOT Summit held in Ottawa,
>> Sept 14-15. In parallel to the summit, Statistics Canada hosted a workshop
>> to discuss the possibility of launching a community-led initiative titled
>> “Building Canada 2020”.
>>
>> The goal and vision of this initiative is simple: *map all buildings in
>> Canada on OSM by the year 2020*. The workshop was well attended. There
>> were about 50 people from various sectors (federal, academic, civic group,
>> and private). This was a preliminary discussion amongst a small group of
>> people, but now that broad interest has been confirmed more stakeholders
>> need to be involved!
>>
>> A short summary of the workshop along with a first draft *Roadmap to
>> implementation* has been posted on the OSM Wiki at:
>> *https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Canada/Building_Canada_2020*
>> 
>>
>> Everyone that shares the vision of “mapping all buildings in Canada on
>> OSM by the year 2020” is invited to contribute to the discussion and the
>> roadmap to implementation. In addition, there is still need to discuss how
>> coordination, communication and governance of this initiative can be set in
>> place.
>>
>> One important aspect that needs to be emphasized is that “Building Canada
>> 2020” is not a Statistics Canada project. In fact, it is not properly a
>> project of any sort. It is a vision and an aspirational goal. The hope is
>> that many organizations and contributors working with an open data 

Re: [Talk-it-lazio] Fwd: [Talk-it] Parlano di noi su Repubblica :-)

[Luca Moiana]

Ciao,

volentieri!
In che data?

L

From: FelynX 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:51 PM
To: talk-it-lazio@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-it-lazio] Fwd: [Talk-it] Parlano di noi su Repubblica :-)

Ciao, bentrovati.

Mi ero iscritto penso a luglio ed ero rimasto in stand by, infatti stavo
pensando proprio in questi giorni di scrivere per capire se ci fosse
qualche attività.

Se c'è qualche incontro, salvo altri impegni, cercherò di esserci.

A presto


Il 2017-09-28 17:30 Marcello Pelato ha scritto:
> Bello ritrovarvi :D
> Sempre disponibile. La sera soprattutto Lu-Do
>
> Il 28 set 2017 3:31 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer 
> ha scritto:
>
>> 2017-09-28 15:21 GMT+02:00 jprimav :
>>
>>> Ciao Martin, Flaminia
>>>
>>> sarebbe bello continuare col progetto, dopo una lunghissima pausa
>>> estiva :)
>>
>> Infatti. Quando potete? Ubaldo, Pelatom, Luca, ci state?
>>
>> Ciao,
>> Martin
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--
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Re: [Talk-ca] Building Canada 2020 initiative

[john whelan]

A couple of comments:

1. Pierre Beland  has identified
95% of contributors only map 6% of the assets.
https://mobile.twitter.com/pierzen/status/910551645498552321  We would need
to use those 5% of mappers who do the most mapping and they have their own
agendas and reasons for mapping. They are more likely to throw their weight
behind something that looks achievable and I'm not sure this is.

2. I've put up a sample of buildings being mapped from a mapathon.
https://www.jatws.org/johnw/building3.jpg as you can see in my opinion the
quality is not suitable for Stats Canada's use.  Some buildings are grouped
together with others as a single building, others are mapped the wrong
shape or size.  Quite often buildings are omitted.  There are better
examples and there are worse examples but it is not untypical and it was
this experience that made me suggest the Open Data import route in the
first place.

So Open Data import is better for quality.  Adding tags to building foot
prints is less error prone.

3. There are more than 5,000 municipal governments in Canada source Stats
Can.  It took five years to get the City of Ottawa to update their Open
Data license.  Treasury Board still hasn't released their Open Data tool
kit for the municipalities.  With good will I estimate it will take two
years to get the Open Data licenses amended.  Kingston might be a good
target.  With any questions and there will be a number, this figure can be
expected to drift out to three to four years.  Who is responsible to answer
questions, in both official languages?  Who will make the requests to
municipal governments to adopt a usable Open Data license?

In Ottawa we had the right mix of resources.  We had enough local mappers
to discuss things through which is part of the import process. We had good
will from the City of Ottawa and they were happy to release building foot
print data which had not been part of their Open Data so far.  The import
process is not simple these days, it would need  the steps to follow to be
documented and then you get the technical side of the import.  I'm a fairly
experienced mapper and to be honest I wouldn't attempt the sort of complex
import that was done in Ottawa.  I'm not sure the Ottawa experience is
repeatable more than five thousand times.

We can approach the OSM LWG for an opinion on existing licenses but they
are volunteers and for five thousand opinions that would take a
considerable amount of time and if the license weren't the TB toolkit ones
I wouldn't even bother.

The community is supposed to be doing this.  Fine but a project manager and
a project plan might make it run more smoothly.  Data quality will be
important so how will it be verified?  Who will be responsible for
organising task manager tiles for the whole country? Who will identify the
group of mappers who are "local" to a small municipality?  Remember these
have a critical decision making role to play in the import process.

Have fun.

Cheerio John


On 28 September 2017 at 16:48, Alasia, Alessandro (STATCAN) <
alessandro.ala...@canada.ca> wrote:

> Hello all!
>
> Statistics Canada was a partner of the 2017 HOT Summit held in Ottawa,
> Sept 14-15. In parallel to the summit, Statistics Canada hosted a workshop
> to discuss the possibility of launching a community-led initiative titled
> “Building Canada 2020”.
>
> The goal and vision of this initiative is simple: *map all buildings in
> Canada on OSM by the year 2020*. The workshop was well attended. There
> were about 50 people from various sectors (federal, academic, civic group,
> and private). This was a preliminary discussion amongst a small group of
> people, but now that broad interest has been confirmed more stakeholders
> need to be involved!
>
> A short summary of the workshop along with a first draft *Roadmap to
> implementation* has been posted on the OSM Wiki at:
> *https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Canada/Building_Canada_2020*
> 
>
> Everyone that shares the vision of “mapping all buildings in Canada on OSM
> by the year 2020” is invited to contribute to the discussion and the
> roadmap to implementation. In addition, there is still need to discuss how
> coordination, communication and governance of this initiative can be set in
> place.
>
> One important aspect that needs to be emphasized is that “Building Canada
> 2020” is not a Statistics Canada project. In fact, it is not properly a
> project of any sort. It is a vision and an aspirational goal. The hope is
> that many organizations and contributors working with an open data resource
> (OSM) can coordinate their efforts through a multitude of projects,
> initiatives, and activities towards a common goal that would benefit
> society at large.
>
> My team at Statistics Canada (DEIL) has been working on a pilot project
> with OSM (which was presented at the HOT Summit). We are 

Re: [Talk-GB] Access and other tags for a particular Restricted Byway

[Philip Withnall]

On Fri, 2017-09-29 at 14:06 +0100, David Woolley wrote:
> On 29/09/17 13:56, Bob Hawkins wrote:
> 
> > In the absence of the image, the two signs read as follows: 1. In
> > white 
> > on blue: Oxfordshire County Council/No vehicles beyond this point
> > except 
> > for access. 
> 
> motor_vehicle=destination
> 
> >  2. In white on green: RESTRICTED BYWAY/PRIVATE
> > ROAD/NO 
> > vehicle access except for residents.  I should appreciate views on
> > the 
> 
> motor_vehicle=private
> 
> My reasoning, the first one allows all comers, as long as they are 
> visiting.  The second one requires explicit permission, either from
> the 
> land covenants or from a resident.

It would be good if this were added as an example on the wiki, if one
doesn’t exist already.

Philip

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Re: [Talk-GB] Access and other tags for a particular Restricted Byway

[Andy Townsend]

On 29/09/2017 14:06, David Woolley wrote:


 2. In white on green: RESTRICTED BYWAY/PRIVATE ROAD/NO 
vehicle access except for residents.  I should appreciate views on the 


motor_vehicle=private 


Does the sign really mean "no vehicle access" or "no motor vehicle access"?

As I understand it a restricted byway is normally "vehicle=yes; 
motor_vehicle=no" and I'd normally tag them like that.  Of course there 
may be other restrictions (e.g. traffic regulation orders) in effect at 
a particular time.


Best Regards,

Andy

PS: for images I'd normally add them to an image hosting site like 
imgur.com and link to the result from the email.


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Re: [Talk-GB] Access and other tags for a particular Restricted Byway

[David Woolley]

On 29/09/17 13:56, Bob Hawkins wrote:

In the absence of the image, the two signs read as follows: 1. In white 
on blue: Oxfordshire County Council/No vehicles beyond this point except 
for access. 


motor_vehicle=destination

 2. In white on green: RESTRICTED BYWAY/PRIVATE ROAD/NO 
vehicle access except for residents.  I should appreciate views on the 


motor_vehicle=private

My reasoning, the first one allows all comers, as long as they are 
visiting.  The second one requires explicit permission, either from the 
land covenants or from a resident.


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Re: [Talk-it] Parlano di noi su Repubblica :-)

[Fabrizio Tambussa]

Perché non discutere di design del sito nella sede appropriata, anziché qui
in lista?
La ricerca della mailing list  appropriata è lasciata al lettore come
esercizio.

Saluti

Il 29/Set/2017 14:54, "Alessandro Palmas" 
ha scritto:

> Il 29/09/2017 12:29, Marco Ciampa ha scritto:
>
> On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 11:16:09AM +0200, Lorenzo "Beba" Beltrami wrote:
>
> ...
>
> Domande aperte:
> Come si fa a rendere accattivante un database rispettando la sua identità?
> C'è qualcuno che si occupa di promozione o di marketing che ha affrontato
> casi simili?
>
>
> Ho provato a cercare "openstreetmap press kit" ed ho trovato
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/IT:Press_Kit (non ricordo di esserci
> mai stato), dalla cronologia vedo che è praticamente fermo dal 2013.
>
>
>
>
>
> Secondo la mia immodestissima opinione il sito openstreetmap è
> completamente forviante per i principianti.
>
>
> Quando prima c'erano molte meno funzioni disponibili era aperto il
> dibattito sull'aggiungerne di nuove altrimenti chi arrivava pensava fosse
> una mappa 'normale'.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
> Il primo impatto non dovrebbe far vedere tutti questi pulsanti... dopo
> registrati semmai!
>
>
> Non sono d'accordo: non saranno chiarissimi ma se ci clicchi sopra non ti
> si formatta il computer ;-)
>
>
> .
>
> mahhh
>
>
>
> Quelle non sono parti immediatamente modificabili come le sezioni della
> wiki ma se c'è qualcuno che ha idee chiare e voglia di contribuire è sempre
> il benvenuto.
>
> Negli ultimi 4 mesi un pugno di persone ha tradotto la GUI della nuova
> versione del Tasking Manager che uscirà a breve; tradotto migliaia di frasi
> delle guide LearnOSM passando dal 31% al 74%, aggiornato il libretto
> 'Introduzione a OpenStreetMap' che era fermo al 2012 e di cui distribuiremo
> una prima versione dopodomani al mapping party di Viverone. E probabilmente
> mi sono perso qualcosa.
> C'è posto per tutti ... fatevi avanti
>
> Alessandro Ale_Zena_IT
>
>
>
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[Talk-GB] Access and other tags for a particular Restricted Byway

[Bob Hawkins]

I wished to attach an image of road signs in Shiplake, Oxfordshire, but was 
informed the file was too large.
In the absence of the image, the two signs read as follows: 1. In white on 
blue: Oxfordshire County Council/No vehicles beyond this point except for 
access.  2. In white on green: RESTRICTED BYWAY/PRIVATE ROAD/NO vehicle access 
except for residents.  I should appreciate views on the correct and complete 
treatment for access, motor_vehicle and vehicle keys, or anything else in this 
case, bearing in mind routing.  I find it difficult to know how to tag 
Restricted Byways correctly, often.  The Way is 25506222.
With regards
Bob Hawkins

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Re: [Talk-it] Parlano di noi su Repubblica :-)

[Alessandro Palmas]

  
  
Il 29/09/2017 12:29, Marco Ciampa ha
  scritto:


  On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 11:16:09AM +0200, Lorenzo "Beba" Beltrami wrote:

  ...
Domande aperte:
Come si fa a rendere accattivante un database rispettando la sua identità?
C'è qualcuno che si occupa di promozione o di marketing che ha affrontato
casi simili?

  


Ho provato a cercare "openstreetmap press kit" ed ho trovato
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/IT:Press_Kit (non ricordo di
esserci mai stato), dalla cronologia vedo che è praticamente fermo
dal 2013.





  
Secondo la mia immodestissima opinione il sito openstreetmap è
completamente forviante per i principianti.


Quando prima c'erano molte meno funzioni disponibili era aperto il
dibattito sull'aggiungerne di nuove altrimenti chi arrivava pensava
fosse una mappa 'normale'.





  



Il primo impatto non dovrebbe far vedere tutti questi pulsanti... dopo
registrati semmai!


Non sono d'accordo: non saranno chiarissimi ma se ci clicchi sopra
non ti si formatta il computer ;-)



  .

mahhh




Quelle non sono parti immediatamente modificabili come le sezioni
della wiki ma se c'è qualcuno che ha idee chiare e voglia di
contribuire è sempre il benvenuto.

Negli ultimi 4 mesi un pugno di persone ha tradotto la GUI della
nuova versione del Tasking Manager che uscirà a breve; tradotto
migliaia di frasi delle guide LearnOSM passando dal 31% al 74%,
aggiornato il libretto 'Introduzione a OpenStreetMap' che era fermo
al 2012 e di cui distribuiremo una prima versione dopodomani al
mapping party di Viverone. E probabilmente mi sono perso qualcosa.
C'è posto per tutti ... fatevi avanti

Alessandro Ale_Zena_IT


  


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Re: [Talk-it] Mappare le Zone a Traffico Limitato ZTL

[Federico Cortese]

2017-09-29 14:39 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer :
>
> questo è un'elaborazione, bisognerebbe capire come hanno fatta la delibera,
> ma dalla pagina linkata non vedo problemi nel individuare un'area per la
> ZTL.
>

Non ci sono problemi ad individuare l'area che racchiude tutto il
centro storico.
Quello che cerco di spiegare è che alcune strade hanno delle
limitazioni diverse da altre all'interno della stessa area.
Per questo motivo un'area non è soddisfacente, invece è necessario
aggiungere i tag a tutte le singole strade.

Ciao,
Federico

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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Andy Townsend]

On 28/09/2017 07:15, Stefano wrote:



We used this library to process the dump and then we add the results 
in pgsql


https://www.entropywins.wtf/blog/2015/11/08/wikidata-wikibase-json-dump-reader/

https://github.com/osmItalia/wikidata-geo-match

What would the requirement of a wikidata2pgsql be?


Thanks for that.

To answer the question, It'd create a database in a format that's 
designed to be queried that contains "just enough" information to 
support whatever job it's needed for (and it'd be great if it also 
supported dynamic column creation using a mechanism similar to 
osm2pgsql's ".style" file).


Of the other "missing bits", I used "osmosis" as an example of "cutting 
a database extract down to size" (other options are available).  In the 
OSM world that initial slice is often geographical, but osmosis can also 
deal with data without explicit co-ordinates (ways and relations) based 
on the geographical location of constituent nodes.  The same would be 
true (for me) of wikidata - I'd be only interested in actual physical 
locations and the things that they link to (which may not have physical 
locations and may just be concepts).


Finally "switch2osm" is a regularly-updated set of instructions that you 
can follow from start to finish without needed external knowledge about 
how to solve a problem.  For example, 
https://switch2osm.org/manually-building-a-tile-server-16-04-2-lts/ has 
undergone numerous updates in the last year to deal with stylesheet 
changes, which depend on a bleeding edge version of carto, which depends 
on  node.js.  At each stage in the process the idea was that 
you'd always be able to get a working result, even if at one point that 
meant the instructions explained how get a version of the stylesheet 
from a few months ago because a newer version wouldn't work in 
combination with everything else there.


"wikidata-wikibase-json-dump-reader" looks interesting - it looks (to 
continue the analogy) to be somewhat equivalent to the Crosby PBF library.


"wikidata-geo-match" also looks interesting because 
https://github.com/osmItalia/wikidata-geo-match/blob/master/scripts/2_process.sh 
and the readme explain how to do the initial geographical selection.  
It's not quite all there though 
(https://github.com/osmItalia/wikidata-geo-match/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93=0_create_wikidata_table.sql= 
suggests either the README is out of date or some bits are missing).  
It'd certainly be a useful start for someone who cared about wikidata to 
develop something mirroring the equivalent tools that OSM already has, 
and I'm sure it does exactly what you need it to do, but it's not a 
generic "let's create a database and allow you to do something with it".


Best Regards,

Andy


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Re: [Talk-it] Mappare le Zone a Traffico Limitato ZTL

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2017-09-29 13:36 GMT+02:00 Federico Cortese :

> 2017-09-29 13:18 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer :
> >
> > hai un link alla delibera?
>
> Non ce l'ho, ma sul portale opendata le ZTL del centro storico sono
> ben visibili:
> http://dati.comune.lecce.it/dataset/ztl-apu-centro-storico-lecce/resource/
> d5fe4782-adb8-4e15-be39-29717088e678
>


questo è un'elaborazione, bisognerebbe capire come hanno fatta la delibera,
ma dalla pagina linkata non vedo problemi nel individuare un'area per la
ZTL.

Ciao,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-it] Mappare le Zone a Traffico Limitato ZTL

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2017-09-29 13:46 GMT+02:00 Federico Cortese :

> 2017-09-29 13:18 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer :
> >
> > Nel tuo esempio potrei andare in Via Idomeneo anche di notte in
> macchina, ma
> > non posso uscire?
>
> No, di notte non puoi entrare nel centro storico. Puoi entrare solo in
> alcune strade di giorno (orario 6-21).



ho sbagliato io, perché dalla query overpass sembrava che si poteva entrare
(non era evidenziata)
[image: Inline-Bild 1]
mentre adesso ho visto su OSM che quella strada in generale ha un
motor_vehicle=private, senza eccezioni in alcune ore.


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Re: [Talk-it] Parlano di noi su Repubblica :-)

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 29. Sep 2017, at 13:48, Marco Ciampa  wrote:
> 
> È una funzione di ricerca? UNA LENTE!!! (era difficile vero? :-)


la lente già c’è, è per la ricerca testuale, mentre il punto interrogativo è 
per interrogare la mappa. Anche alcuni programmi lo usano così: clicchi su 
delle cose e ti dice cos’è 


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Re: [Talk-it] Parlano di noi su Repubblica :-)

[Marco Ciampa]

On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 01:12:47PM +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> 2017-09-29 12:29 GMT+02:00 Marco Ciampa :
> 
> > Secondo la mia immodestissima opinione il sito openstreetmap è
> > completamente forviante per i principianti.
> >
> 
> 
> si, è vero che si rivolge sempre a delle persone abbastanza affine con la
> tecnologia, nonostante dicono di no ;-)
> 

Prima di tutto ho prima postato le critiche per evitare di dimenticarmi
la prima impressione (che è sempre quella più spontanea)

> >
> > 1) troppe voci di menu che significano cose per gli esperti
> >
> 
> +1.
> "gps traces", "user diaries" non sono cose da mettere allo stesso livello
> di "copyright", "help" e "about", tantomeno da mettere prima.

Esatto. E magari _dopo_ che ti sei loggato...

> 
> > 2) le uniche tre voci che dovrebbero aiutare ad orientarsi per i primi
> > venuti (dovrebbe idealmente essercene solo una...) e cioè
> >
> >  2a) Aiuto
> >  2b) Informazioni
> >  2c) ?
> >
> 
> 
> hm, cos'è il punto interrogativo, intendi quello sulla destra in basso? Per
> me questo va bene, fa parte del menu della mappa e non si confonde (penso)
> che le altre voci.

Si ma il discorso è che un punto interrogativo è un simbolo che
universalmente si preme quando si ha bisogno di aiuto. Non a caso è
l'icona dell'aiuto del sistema che uso ora (Ubuntu) e di molti programmi
(es. Firefox).

> 
> Invece la parte di menu in alto a sinistra (edit / history / export) va
> bene per la parte "edit" e "export", in quanto indicano che offriamo i
> dati, e che tutti possono partecipare (in particolare "export" ha una
> sbarra carina con informazioni integrativi, che si apre dopo che clicchi).
> "history" invece è inutile, lo toglierei proprio, sono 10 anni che si dice
> che non funziona (perché fa vedere sopratutto edits globali, piuttosto che
> quelli sulla porzione di mappa che si guarda).
> 
> 
> 
> Partendo da 2c): cambiare l'icona!!!
> >  ... perché il punto interrogativo si usa in genere per chiedere aiuto!!!
> >
> 
> cosa proponi in cambio?

È una funzione di ricerca? UNA LENTE!!! (era difficile vero? :-)

> >
> > 2a) Il sottomenu contiene:
> > ...
> > Tutto Ok ma manca qualcosa in cima, lo vedete? No?
> >
> >
> 
> no, cosa intendi?
> 

Spiego sotto...

> 
> > Andiamo avanti
> >
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/about
> >
> > Ohhh già meglio... fuochino... non si capisce il perché di due voci
> > separate (Aiuto e Informazioni dovrebbero partire da un unico tasto), ma
> > anche questo manca il bersaglio...
> >
> 
> 
> per me va bene (nella versione originale), forse "informazioni" non è una
> scelta felice per tradurre "about"?

Infatti io metterei, "A proposito di OSM" o "Su OSM" o qualche altra
proposta che ora non mi viene in mente altrimenti non si capisce,
informazioni significa troppe cose...

> 
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > PRIMA DI TUTTO IN CIMA A TUTTO DOVREBBE ESSERE SCRITTO, GRANDE COME UNA
> > CASA:
> >
> >
> >COS'È OPEN STREET MAP
> >
> 
> 
> questo è "About": "
> OpenStreetMap powers map data on thousands of web sites, mobile apps, and
> hardware devices
> 
> 
> e
> *OpenStreetMap is built by a community of mappers that contribute and
> maintain data about roads, trails, cafés, railway stations, and much more,
> all over the world. *
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> >
> > Invece trovo:
> >
> > OpenStreetMap fornisce dati geografici su migliaia di siti web,
> > applicazioni mobili e dispositivi hardware
> >
> > SI MA CHE DIAVOLO È
> >
> 
> 
> un fornitore di dati? Si, potrebbe essere ancora più diretto (tipo: un
> database centrale di geodati, dove tutti possono scrivere).

Esatto, dici cosa è, poi dici a cosa serve e chi contribuisce ecc.

> La mia piccola critica (da quando ci sta questo nuovo design): quella
> immagine su "about" non mostro quasi alcun dato OSM, invece fa vedere dei
> dati raster, un rendering stamen, dei dati natural earth, un estratto da
> una mappa mapquest, delle isoipse (o simile) da mapbox. Vabe, l'importante
> che trasmette un'idea ;-)

ehhh infatti vedi i giornalisti come sono rimasti "illuminati"? ;-)

> Se vuoi portare avanti la tua critica e trasformarla in qualcosa che magari
> riscontra un'echo, crea un ticket qui:
> https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website

Ottimo certo ma prima uno scambio di idee ci sta bene poi le si raccoglie...


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Re: [Talk-it] Mappare le Zone a Traffico Limitato ZTL

[Federico Cortese]

2017-09-29 13:18 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer :
>
> Nel tuo esempio potrei andare in Via Idomeneo anche di notte in macchina, ma
> non posso uscire?

No, di notte non puoi entrare nel centro storico. Puoi entrare solo in
alcune strade di giorno (orario 6-21).

Ciao,
Federico

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Re: [Talk-it] Mappare le Zone a Traffico Limitato ZTL

[Federico Cortese]

2017-09-29 13:18 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer :
>
> hai un link alla delibera?

Non ce l'ho, ma sul portale opendata le ZTL del centro storico sono
ben visibili:
http://dati.comune.lecce.it/dataset/ztl-apu-centro-storico-lecce/resource/d5fe4782-adb8-4e15-be39-29717088e678

> Nel tuo esempio potrei andare in Via Idomeneo anche di notte in macchina, ma
> non posso uscire? Cosa faccio se parto da lì con la macchina e poi mi
> accorgo alla fine della strada che non posso andare avanti, e non c'è più
> posto da parcheggiare, visto che si tratta di una strada a senso unico,
> dovrei lasciare la macchina lì in mezzo alla carreggiata? Ti posso chiedere
> di chiedere questo al comune? ;-)
>

Scusami ma non ho afferrato, perchè mi pare che se mi trovo in via
Idomeneo basta seguire i sensi unici: prendo via D'Amelio, poi via
Prato, poi via Palmieri, poi Piazza dell'Arco di Trionfo ed esco di
fianco a Porta Napoli.
Per chiedere al comune devo prima capire io ;)

Ciao,
Federico

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Re: [Talk-it] Mappare le Zone a Traffico Limitato ZTL

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2017-09-29 12:24 GMT+02:00 Federico Cortese :

>
> Può darsi che per Roma vada bene, ma nell'esempio che facevo prima non
> so come si potrebbe usare un'area, perchè ci sono singole strade che
> hanno limitazioni diverse.
> Queste strade: http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/s3U
> sono limitate dalle 21 alle 6, mentre tutte le altre strade del centro
> storico sono limitate H24.
>
> Credo che questa situazione si possa esprimere solo con singoli tag o
> con relazione.



hai un link alla delibera?
Può darsi che abbiamo 2 tipologie di ZTL diverse, quelle ad area, e quelle
ad elenco di singole strade?
Nel tuo esempio potrei andare in Via Idomeneo anche di notte in macchina,
ma non posso uscire? Cosa faccio se parto da lì con la macchina e poi mi
accorgo alla fine della strada che non posso andare avanti, e non c'è più
posto da parcheggiare, visto che si tratta di una strada a senso unico,
dovrei lasciare la macchina lì in mezzo alla carreggiata? Ti posso chiedere
di chiedere questo al comune? ;-)


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Martin
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Re: [Talk-it] Parlano di noi su Repubblica :-)

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2017-09-29 12:29 GMT+02:00 Marco Ciampa :

> Secondo la mia immodestissima opinione il sito openstreetmap è
> completamente forviante per i principianti.
>


si, è vero che si rivolge sempre a delle persone abbastanza affine con la
tecnologia, nonostante dicono di no ;-)




>
> 1) troppe voci di menu che significano cose per gli esperti
>


+1.
"gps traces", "user diaries" non sono cose da mettere allo stesso livello
di "copyright", "help" e "about", tantomeno da mettere prima.



> 2) le uniche tre voci che dovrebbero aiutare ad orientarsi per i primi
> venuti (dovrebbe idealmente essercene solo una...) e cioè
>
>  2a) Aiuto
>  2b) Informazioni
>  2c) ?
>


hm, cos'è il punto interrogativo, intendi quello sulla destra in basso? Per
me questo va bene, fa parte del menu della mappa e non si confonde (penso)
che le altre voci.

Invece la parte di menu in alto a sinistra (edit / history / export) va
bene per la parte "edit" e "export", in quanto indicano che offriamo i
dati, e che tutti possono partecipare (in particolare "export" ha una
sbarra carina con informazioni integrativi, che si apre dopo che clicchi).
"history" invece è inutile, lo toglierei proprio, sono 10 anni che si dice
che non funziona (perché fa vedere sopratutto edits globali, piuttosto che
quelli sulla porzione di mappa che si guarda).



Partendo da 2c): cambiare l'icona!!!
>  ... perché il punto interrogativo si usa in genere per chiedere aiuto!!!
>



cosa proponi in cambio?




>
> 2a) Il sottomenu contiene:
> ...
> Tutto Ok ma manca qualcosa in cima, lo vedete? No?
>
>

no, cosa intendi?




> Andiamo avanti
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/about
>
> Ohhh già meglio... fuochino... non si capisce il perché di due voci
> separate (Aiuto e Informazioni dovrebbero partire da un unico tasto), ma
> anche questo manca il bersaglio...
>


per me va bene (nella versione originale), forse "informazioni" non è una
scelta felice per tradurre "about"?




>
> PRIMA DI TUTTO IN CIMA A TUTTO DOVREBBE ESSERE SCRITTO, GRANDE COME UNA
> CASA:
>
>
>COS'È OPEN STREET MAP
>


questo è "About": "
OpenStreetMap powers map data on thousands of web sites, mobile apps, and
hardware devices


e
*OpenStreetMap is built by a community of mappers that contribute and
maintain data about roads, trails, cafés, railway stations, and much more,
all over the world. *


...

>
> Invece trovo:
>
> OpenStreetMap fornisce dati geografici su migliaia di siti web,
> applicazioni mobili e dispositivi hardware
>
> SI MA CHE DIAVOLO È
>


un fornitore di dati? Si, potrebbe essere ancora più diretto (tipo: un
database centrale di geodati, dove tutti possono scrivere).

La mia piccola critica (da quando ci sta questo nuovo design): quella
immagine su "about" non mostro quasi alcun dato OSM, invece fa vedere dei
dati raster, un rendering stamen, dei dati natural earth, un estratto da
una mappa mapquest, delle isoipse (o simile) da mapbox. Vabe, l'importante
che trasmette un'idea ;-)

Se vuoi portare avanti la tua critica e trasformarla in qualcosa che magari
riscontra un'echo, crea un ticket qui:
https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website

Ciao,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-it] Import numeri civici Trento

[Andrea Musuruane]

2017-09-29 12:15 GMT+02:00 Daniele Zotta :

> Buongiorno,
> mi chiamo Daniele, sono al 5° anno all'Istituto Tecnico Tecnologico -
> Informatica a Pergine Valsugana (TN). In questo periodo sto effettuando uno
> stage in Fondazione Bruno Kessler e il mio tutor Maurizio 'napo' Napolitano
> mi ha fatto comparare i numeri civici del comune Trento e quelli presenti
> in OpenStreetMap.
>

[..]



> I dettagli sono visibili qui su :
> wiki.openstreetmap -> https://wiki.openstreetmap.
> org/wiki/Editing_IT:_Trento_house_numbers_import
> GitHub -> https://github.com/danielezotta/osm_civici_trento
>
> Se siete d'accordo lunedí pensavo di fare l'import su OpenStreetMap.
>

Lunedì??? Mi sembra manchino diversi passaggi descritti qui:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines

Ad iniziare dal fatto che la pagina di import deve essere scritta in
inglese.

Ciao,

Andrea
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Re: [Talk-it] Import numeri civici Trento

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2017-09-29 12:15 GMT+02:00 Daniele Zotta :

> il dataset del comune di Trento é distribuito con licenza CC0
>


ottimo



>
>- per una questione di ordine e doppioni si é scelto di inserire solo
>i numeri civici corrispondenti agli ingressi principali, poiché nel dataset
>del comune per uno stesso edificio possono essere registrati altri civici
>corrispondenti agli ingressi secondari
>
>

hm, ci spiegheresti meglio cosa centra con "ordine" e "doppioni"? Non
sarebbe meglio avere tutti i civici, invece di solo quelli principali?
Oppure è una questione di quantità e tempo a disposizione?



>
>
>- i numeri civici uguali giá presenti in OpenStreetMap sono stati
>rimossi dal dataset del comune al fine di avere quelli mancanti in
>OpenStreetMap
>
>
bene



>
>-
>- i numeri civici con differenze nei dati sono stati corretti in
>OpenStreetMap con i dati del comune e rimossi dal dataset comunale per
>evitare doppioni
>
>
non capisco, non avevi rimosso quelli presenti in OSM dal dataset del
comune come da voce precedente? Quali sono i dati differenti (posizioni,
numeri e nome strade, ecc.)? Le correzioni in OSM a base di dati dal comune
sono comunque già un import.



>
>-
>- i numeri civici complicati da interpretare sono stati gestiti e
>modificati manualmente e fisicamente
>
>

anche questo non capisco. Hai fatto rilievi?  Cosa hai fatto nel
particolare?



> I numeri civici pronti all'import sono 19987,  i numeri civici presenti in
> OpenStreetMap al momento sono 6005 nel comune di Trento.
>
> Se siete d'accordo lunedí pensavo di fare l'import su OpenStreetMap.
>



penso sia un po' presto, è vero che ti ho risposto entro un quarto d'ora ma
dobbiamo lasciare anche tempo per gli altri da rispondere. Al solito si
lasciano al meno 2 settimane per commentare ed analizzare.

Ciao,
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Centre commercial déplacé

[Philippe Verdy]

Pas a jour sur l'imagerie Bing, mais ok sur Digital Globe Premium qui
montre aussi la zone démolie

Le 29 septembre 2017 à 09:35, Lionel Allorge 
a écrit :

> Bonjour,
>
> J'ai constaté qu'un centre commercial à Rambouillet avait été changé de
> place, le nouveau bâtiment du Leclerc étant reconstruit à côté de
> l'ancien et les parkings modifiés; mais OSM n'est pas à jour comme on
> peut le voir en regardant la photo satellite :
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/export#map=18/48.64674/1.85821
>
> Y a-t-il un moyen pour mettre à jour cet endroit, à partir du cadastre
> peut-être, sans avoir à tout refaire à la main ?
>
> Merci d'avance pour votre aide.
>
> Librement.
>
> --
> Lionel Allorge
> April : http://www.april.org
> Lune Rouge : http://www.lunerouge.org
> Wikimedia France : http://wikimedia.fr
> OpenStreetMap France : http://www.openstreetmap.fr/
> 
> « La paresse a un avantage :
> ça demande peu d'efforts. »
> Garfield lave plus blanc (1986), Jim Davis
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [Talk-it] Mappare le Zone a Traffico Limitato ZTL

[Federico Cortese]

2017-09-29 11:13 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer :
>
> Per me la cosa più facile da controllare e aggiornare sarebbe creare un area
> (per il nome della ZTL, per il rendering), e mettere tutti i varchi (dove le
> strade si interseccano con l'area) con appositi tag access. Ai fini di
> routing non dovrebbe essere necessario taggare tutte le strade all'interno
> (finché arrivano le macchine volanti).
>

Può darsi che per Roma vada bene, ma nell'esempio che facevo prima non
so come si potrebbe usare un'area, perchè ci sono singole strade che
hanno limitazioni diverse.
Queste strade: http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/s3U
sono limitate dalle 21 alle 6, mentre tutte le altre strade del centro
storico sono limitate H24.

Credo che questa situazione si possa esprimere solo con singoli tag o
con relazione.

Ciao,
Federico

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Re: [Talk-it] Parlano di noi su Repubblica :-)

[Marco Ciampa]

On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 11:16:09AM +0200, Lorenzo "Beba" Beltrami wrote:
> Il giorno 29 settembre 2017 09:10, Cascafico Giovanni 
> ha scritto:
> 
> > OSM mi pare sia nomionato, una volta, in fondo all'articolo, nemmeno
> > linkato; ovviamente la sua apparizione non è proporzionale
> > all'importanza che riveste per questi "crowd mapping" e credo la
> > giornalista non lo abbia capito.
> >
> 
> Sono d'accordo su questo punto: IMHO il problema di quell'articolo è dato
> dal fatto che la giornalista non ha capito qual è la relazione tra OSM e
> tutti gli altri progetti.
> Quello che sfugge ai più (e quindi anche ai giornalisti) è che OSM
> (astratto database) è la base sopra cui vengono costruiti altri progetti
> ("click e vedi" e in "ambienti grafici accattivanti").
> 
> E rendere OSM più accattivante o "click e vedi" non solo è difficile, ma
> può essere fuorviante: tantissime persone a cui cerco di spiegare cos'è OSM
> al primo impatto capiscono che OSM è una mappa colorata in toni pastello
> consultabile all'indirizzo osm.org.
> 
> Domande aperte:
> Come si fa a rendere accattivante un database rispettando la sua identità?
> C'è qualcuno che si occupa di promozione o di marketing che ha affrontato
> casi simili?
> 
> Questo problema di comunicazione mi ricorda la fatica che fanno quelli di
> Wikimedia Italia a far capire quale sia la relazione (e quindi la
> differenza) tra Wikimedia Italia e Wikipedia in lingua italiana.
> E mi sembra di vedere che ci sono addirittura dei soci che a volte non ce
> l'hanno chiaro...

Secondo la mia immodestissima opinione il sito openstreetmap è
completamente forviante per i principianti.

Mi spiego meglio. Sul sito osm.org appaiono nell'ordine:

Modifica Cronologia Esporta Tracciati GPS Diari degli utenti 
Copyright Aiuto Informazioni

poi delle icone sulla destra con il punto interrogativo in fondo che
significa (se ci metti il mouse sopra) -> Ricerca elementi

Mi metto nei panni dell'utente che cerca di capire che cos'è OSM
(partiamo già da una condizione ideale ma poi spiego come si dovrebbe
agire veramente...)

1) troppe voci di menu che significano cose per gli esperti

Il primo impatto non dovrebbe far vedere tutti questi pulsanti... dopo
registrati semmai!

2) le uniche tre voci che dovrebbero aiutare ad orientarsi per i primi
venuti (dovrebbe idealmente essercene solo una...) e cioè

 2a) Aiuto
 2b) Informazioni
 2c) ?


Partendo da 2c): cambiare l'icona!!!
 ... perché il punto interrogativo si usa in genere per chiedere aiuto!!!

2a) Il sottomenu contiene:

--

Come ottenere aiuto

OpenStreetMap ha diverse risorse per imparare a conoscere il progetto,
chiedendo e rispondendo alle domande, discutendo collaborativamente e
documentando gli argomenti di mappatura.

Guida per Principianti: Guida per i principianti gestita dalla community.

help.openstreetmap.org: Fai una domanda o cerca risposte sul sito di domande e 
risposte di OSM.

Mailing List: Poni la tua domanda o discuti questioni di interesse su una vasta 
gamma
di mailing list tematiche o regionali.

Forum: Domande e discussioni per coloro che preferiscono un'interfaccia in stile
bacheca (BBS).

IRC: Chat interattiva in molte lingue diverse e su molti argomenti.

switch2osm: Aiuto per imprese e organizzazioni che intendono migrare a mappe e 
altri
servizi basati su OpenStreetMap.

wiki.openstreetmap.org: Sfoglia il wiki per la documentazione approfondita di 
OSM.



Tutto Ok ma manca qualcosa in cima, lo vedete? No?

Andiamo avanti

https://www.openstreetmap.org/about

Ohhh già meglio... fuochino... non si capisce il perché di due voci
separate (Aiuto e Informazioni dovrebbero partire da un unico tasto), ma
anche questo manca il bersaglio...

PRIMA DI TUTTO IN CIMA A TUTTO DOVREBBE ESSERE SCRITTO, GRANDE COME UNA CASA:


   COS'È OPEN STREET MAP

E una spiegazione di poche righe... 3 / 5 massimo 

poi più sotto, staccato,

una spiegazione più precisa e più dettagliata per chi va oltre le poche
righe e poi i rimandi di tutto il resto dei menu about e aiuto

Invece trovo:

OpenStreetMap fornisce dati geografici su migliaia di siti web,
applicazioni mobili e dispositivi hardware

SI MA CHE DIAVOLO È 

È hardware, è software, è servizio, è un sito, se magna?

Scritta così OpenStreetMap potrebbe essere un uomo che, come babbo
natale, passa e distribuisce dai tetti i dati geografici a tutti i bravi
geometri...

mahhh


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[Talk-it] Import numeri civici Trento

[Daniele Zotta]

Buongiorno,
mi chiamo Daniele, sono al 5° anno all'Istituto Tecnico Tecnologico -
Informatica a Pergine Valsugana (TN). In questo periodo sto effettuando uno
stage in Fondazione Bruno Kessler e il mio tutor Maurizio 'napo' Napolitano
mi ha fatto comparare i numeri civici del comune Trento e quelli presenti
in OpenStreetMap.

Faccio presente inoltre che:

   - il dataset del comune di Trento é distribuito con licenza CC0
   - per una questione di ordine e doppioni si é scelto di inserire solo i
   numeri civici corrispondenti agli ingressi principali, poiché nel dataset
   del comune per uno stesso edificio possono essere registrati altri civici
   corrispondenti agli ingressi secondari
   - i numeri civici uguali giá presenti in OpenStreetMap sono stati
   rimossi dal dataset del comune al fine di avere quelli mancanti in
   OpenStreetMap
   - i numeri civici con differenze nei dati sono stati corretti in
   OpenStreetMap con i dati del comune e rimossi dal dataset comunale per
   evitare doppioni
   - i numeri civici complicati da interpretare sono stati gestiti e
   modificati manualmente e fisicamente


I numeri civici pronti all'import sono 19987,  i numeri civici presenti in
OpenStreetMap al momento sono 6005 nel comune di Trento.

I dettagli sono visibili qui su :
wiki.openstreetmap ->
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Editing_IT:_Trento_house_numbers_import
GitHub -> https://github.com/danielezotta/osm_civici_trento

Se siete d'accordo lunedí pensavo di fare l'import su OpenStreetMap.
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Re: [Talk-it] [Talk-it-lazio] nasoni / was Parlano di noi su Repubblica :-)

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2017-09-29 11:40 GMT+02:00 FelynX :

>
> Lascio a chi è più esperto la questione type/style, per quanto riguarda
> invece "it", imho, trattandosi di un nome tipico non specificherei la lingua



per me, "style" sarebbe qualcosa come "moderno", "barocco", ecc., mentre
"type" qualcosa tipo "fontana", "nasone", "nasone a due erogatori", "tubo
dal muro", ecc.
"nasone" è un nome tipico qui, ma non lo conosce nessuno nel mondo (fuori
dall'Italia). Considera che quando lo useremo tante volte, sarà anche
automaticamente proposto come valore a chiunque inerisca una fonte d'acqua
da qualche parte nel mondo.

Ciao,
Martin
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