Re: [OSM-ja] Romanisation: a solution

[Satoshi IIDA]

いいだです。

* Telegramでチャットした内容 (on Telegram chat)

1. JP has short discussion about name:rm tag in 2016.
2. Which is "more proper" description whether "ja-Latn" or "ja-latn"
(contain upper case?)
3. Plan or due date for mechanical edit?

 JP:
1. 日本メンバーでは、2016年にOSM wikiの記述を巡って議論があった。
2. "ja-Latn" or "ja-latn"のどちらが正しい？ > 回答：どちらでもよいと考えている。
3. 機械編集するにあたって、目標に定めている日時や計画はあるか？ > 回答：特に定めていない。まずは議論を行なうべきで、一週間くらいは意見を聞きたい



* Satoshi's personal concerns
1. +1 to Andrew. (means: +1 to change tag, but -1 to use Telegram)
2. About (2) above, I prefer "ja-Latn" style. Because BCP47 is written in
"-Latn" (hyphen & Upper case L).
Although OSM new tag [1] guide says "lowercase recommended", but most
of existing data is written in "name:**-Latn" style.[2]
3. Effects on existing apps or services (e.g. editors like JOSM template,
apps like Cycle layer on osm.oorg, OSMAnd or MAPS.ME)

 JP:
1. Andrewさんの意見に賛成。タグは変えてもよいと思っていて、議論にTelegramを使うのは反対。
2. 議論の(2)に関して。ja-Latn、のスタイルでよいのではないか。BCP47標準でも、-Latn、の書かれ方をしている。
OSMの新規タグ設定のガイドでは、小文字が推奨、とはなっているけれど、既存のデータのほとんども、-Latnの記述。
-latn, -Latn, _latn, _Latn、あたりが比較対象かなと思っている。（ハイフン or アンダースコア、大文字 or 小文字）
3. 既存のアプリやサービスへの影響を懸念している。


[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Any_tags_you_like
>Syntactic conventions for new tags: Ideally, a *key* is *one word*, in
lowercase.
[2] see taginfo query: e.g. https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=-Latn




2017-10-26 13:56 GMT+09:00 Satoshi IIDA :

>
> (omitted talk-ko ML for JP discussion)
> (Japanese message below)
>
> Hello Maarten,
>
> Thank you for your proposal.
> It is very nice time to standardize name:[ko/ja]_*** tag.
>
> I would like to follow-up your proposal in Japanese.
>
> 
> いいだです。
>
> 以前、nameタグのローマ字表記（name:ja_rmタグとname:ja-Latnタグ）について
> OSM wikiの記載が変更されていた件で少し議論がありましたが、
> Maartenさんからのメールは、日本と韓国を対象にして、タグの切り替えを機械的に行いたい、という提案です。
> 機械的な編集については、セルビアを対象にして行われた実績があります。
> https://github.com/osmfj/osm_japan_issues/issues/31
>
> name:ja-Latnタグの表記はBCP47標準をもとに提案されています。
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp47
>
> 韓国でも2015年に議論があったようですが、
> そのときにはname:rm_koを維持する積極的な理由はなかったとのこと。
> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gis.openstreetmap.region.ko/204
>
> 現在の議論は、OSM KoreaコミュニティのTelegramグループで行われているようです。
> https://telegram.me/osmKorea.
> （先程、僕も入って少しチャットしました。内容は別途メールします）
>
>
> Maartenさんのメールのなかでは韓国が主な念頭におかれていますが、
> 機械的な作業の内容としては日本も同様に作業ができる、とのことで、
> 日本の状況も聞きたいとのことです。
>
> Telegramでお話した内容、およびいいだ個人の意見を、別途メールします。
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2017-10-26 12:06 GMT+09:00 Maarten van den Hoven :
>
>> Dear OSM editors,
>>
>>
>> This email proposes a solution to the Korean and Japanese romanisation
>> tagging issue. Since this topic concerns both Korea and Japan it is sent to
>> their respective mailing lists.
>>
>> The tag for romanised korean is currently "name:ko_rm". However, this is
>> not the international standard. "ko_rm" was most likely chosen a long time
>> ago because people at the time were unformiliar with the global standard as
>> seen here (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Korea_Naming_Conve
>> ntion). The global standard as defined by the Internet Engineering Task
>> Force here (https://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp47) and backed by W3C,
>> Unicode, ECMA is "ko-Latn" instead of "ko_rm". Adopting a global standard
>> solves confusion over the use of the tag (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org
>> /wiki/Multilingual_names#Korea).
>>
>> This talk has been going on for the past years as seen by the above links
>> and this one -> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.
>> comp.gis.openstreetmap.region.ko/204
>> However, I was unable to find arguments in defense of the "ko_rm" tag.
>>
>> Therefore, I suggest an edit of the OSM database (following the official
>> procedure as defined here https://wiki.openstreetmap.org
>> /wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct) of changing all "name:ko_rm" tags
>> to "name:ko-Latn", like Serbia did in the past as well (
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names#Serbia).
>>
>> Before this change is pushed it is of course important to see if anyone
>> has objections or other reasons why the "ko_rm" tag was chosen over the
>> "ko-Latn" tag.
>>
>> We encourage editors in Korea to join the OSM Korea Telegram chat group
>> here https://telegram.me/osmKorea.
>>
>> Kind regards.
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-ja mailing list
>> Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Satoshi IIDA
> mail: nyamp...@gmail.com
> twitter: @nyampire
>



-- 
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mail: nyamp...@gmail.com
twitter: @nyampire
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Re: [OSM-ja] [Talk-ko] Romanisation: a solution

[Maarten van den Hoven]

Hello Andrew,

I agree with your view on the Telegram group. All important discussion
should be done here.

I would like to add to the romanisation proposal that the OSM guide
recommends the use of lower case tags. BCP47 states that the standard is
case insensitive. Therefore, I suggest the use of "ko-latn" instead of
"ko-Latn".

Kind regards.


On 26 Oct 2017 1:21 p.m., "Andrew Errington"  wrote:

Hello Maarten,

I agree with your reasoning that the tag was probably chosen because the
ko-Latn tag was either unknown at the time, or maybe didn't exist.  I searched
for the "correct" tag a few times myself in the past because I suspected
ko_rm was not a recognised language code, but I didn't find a definitive
answer.

I also agree that standards are good in general, so I support the
suggestion to change the ko_rm tag to ko-Latn.  However, I don't know how
many data consumers use the ko_rm tag who would be affected.  I suspect the
number is small because most people in Korea use online maps from Daum and
Naver (the two most popular online portals in Korea).

Regarding the osmKorea group on telegram.me I think it should not be
promoted for two reasons.  Firstly, it seems that the messages can only be
seen with the Telegram app.  They are not visible on a webpage therefore
no-one can read any discussion or contribute without the app.  Secondly,
the OSM community in Korea is small.  Not many people are subscribed to
this list (Talk-ko) and using Telegram will fragment discussions further.
I suppose there is a third reason, and that is the most popular chat
program in Korea is Kakao Talk.

In summary, I support changing ko_rm to ko-Latn, but I don't support using
Telegram for discussion.

Best wishes,

Andrew


On Oct 26, 2017 4:07 PM, "Maarten van den Hoven" 
wrote:

Dear OSM editors,


This email proposes a solution to the Korean and Japanese romanisation
tagging issue. Since this topic concerns both Korea and Japan it is sent to
their respective mailing lists.

The tag for romanised korean is currently "name:ko_rm". However, this is
not the international standard. "ko_rm" was most likely chosen a long time
ago because people at the time were unformiliar with the global standard as
seen here (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Korea_Naming_Convention).
The global standard as defined by the Internet Engineering Task Force here (
https://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp47) and backed by W3C, Unicode, ECMA is
"ko-Latn" instead of "ko_rm". Adopting a global standard solves confusion
over the use of the tag (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org
/wiki/Multilingual_names#Korea).

This talk has been going on for the past years as seen by the above links
and this one -> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gis.openstreetmap.region.
ko/204
However, I was unable to find arguments in defense of the "ko_rm" tag.

Therefore, I suggest an edit of the OSM database (following the official
procedure as defined here https://wiki.openstreetmap.org
/wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct) of changing all "name:ko_rm" tags to
"name:ko-Latn", like Serbia did in the past as well (
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names#Serbia).

Before this change is pushed it is of course important to see if anyone has
objections or other reasons why the "ko_rm" tag was chosen over the
"ko-Latn" tag.

We encourage editors in Korea to join the OSM Korea Telegram chat group
here https://telegram.me/osmKorea.

Kind regards.

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Re: [Talk-GB] overpass query involving pubs

[Andrew Black]

I am confused by this.
I understood ( x; y; ); to be the union of x and y.  Rather than x passing
its results onto y. What am i missing.


On 25 Oct 2017 11:58, "Roland Olbricht"  wrote:

While i'm here, can anyone tell me why http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/szG does
> not return nodes and ways-and-their-nodes? It is very similar to the example
>

Thank you for asking. As I will explain below, this is an opportunity to
improve the documentation.


area[name="Brighton and Hove"][admin_level=6];
> (
>node(area)[amenity=pub];
>way(area)[amenity=pub];
> );
> (._;>;);
> out body;
>

In line 3 we have only nodes as a result. In line 4, we ask for ways that
are inside the areas from the previous result (the one from line 3). Thus,
line 4 can never have a result.

Hence, please change it to

area[name="Brighton and Hove"][admin_level=6]->.a;
(
   node(area.a)[amenity=pub];
   way(area.a)[amenity=pub];

);
(._;>;);
out body;

This way, we store the result of line 1 in a set named "a". And in lines 3
and 4 we now ask for nodes resp. ways that are in areas from "a". "a" could
be an arbitrary name (composed of letters, digits, and underscores,
starting with a letter; names are case sesitive).

By the way, I suggest to replace lines 5 and 6:

area[name="Brighton and Hove"][admin_level=6]->.a;
(
   node(area.a)[amenity=pub];
   way(area.a)[amenity=pub];
);
out center;

This makes both nodes and ways into a point with a single location. For the
purpose of viewing the objects in Overpass Turbo, this means you need to
transfer and process fewer data.

I thought there were an explanation at
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Overpass_API/Overpass_API_by_Example
but it isn't. I will add the example and the explanation there.

For the question whether it was different before: No. I am a strong
proponent of backwards compatibility. It will rarely or never happen that I
change existing language semantics.

- Roland


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Re: [Talk-ko] Romanisation: a solution

[Maarten van den Hoven]

Hello Andrew,

I agree with your view on the Telegram group. All important discussion
should be done here.

I would like to add to the romanisation proposal that the OSM guide
recommends the use of lower case tags. BCP47 states that the standard is
case insensitive. Therefore, I suggest the use of "ko-latn" instead of
"ko-Latn".

Kind regards.


On 26 Oct 2017 1:21 p.m., "Andrew Errington"  wrote:

Hello Maarten,

I agree with your reasoning that the tag was probably chosen because the
ko-Latn tag was either unknown at the time, or maybe didn't exist.  I searched
for the "correct" tag a few times myself in the past because I suspected
ko_rm was not a recognised language code, but I didn't find a definitive
answer.

I also agree that standards are good in general, so I support the
suggestion to change the ko_rm tag to ko-Latn.  However, I don't know how
many data consumers use the ko_rm tag who would be affected.  I suspect the
number is small because most people in Korea use online maps from Daum and
Naver (the two most popular online portals in Korea).

Regarding the osmKorea group on telegram.me I think it should not be
promoted for two reasons.  Firstly, it seems that the messages can only be
seen with the Telegram app.  They are not visible on a webpage therefore
no-one can read any discussion or contribute without the app.  Secondly,
the OSM community in Korea is small.  Not many people are subscribed to
this list (Talk-ko) and using Telegram will fragment discussions further.
I suppose there is a third reason, and that is the most popular chat
program in Korea is Kakao Talk.

In summary, I support changing ko_rm to ko-Latn, but I don't support using
Telegram for discussion.

Best wishes,

Andrew


On Oct 26, 2017 4:07 PM, "Maarten van den Hoven" 
wrote:

Dear OSM editors,


This email proposes a solution to the Korean and Japanese romanisation
tagging issue. Since this topic concerns both Korea and Japan it is sent to
their respective mailing lists.

The tag for romanised korean is currently "name:ko_rm". However, this is
not the international standard. "ko_rm" was most likely chosen a long time
ago because people at the time were unformiliar with the global standard as
seen here (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Korea_Naming_Convention).
The global standard as defined by the Internet Engineering Task Force here (
https://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp47) and backed by W3C, Unicode, ECMA is
"ko-Latn" instead of "ko_rm". Adopting a global standard solves confusion
over the use of the tag (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org
/wiki/Multilingual_names#Korea).

This talk has been going on for the past years as seen by the above links
and this one -> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gis.openstreetmap.region.
ko/204
However, I was unable to find arguments in defense of the "ko_rm" tag.

Therefore, I suggest an edit of the OSM database (following the official
procedure as defined here https://wiki.openstreetmap.org
/wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct) of changing all "name:ko_rm" tags to
"name:ko-Latn", like Serbia did in the past as well (
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names#Serbia).

Before this change is pushed it is of course important to see if anyone has
objections or other reasons why the "ko_rm" tag was chosen over the
"ko-Latn" tag.

We encourage editors in Korea to join the OSM Korea Telegram chat group
here https://telegram.me/osmKorea.

Kind regards.

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Re: [OSM-ja] Romanisation: a solution

[Satoshi IIDA]

(omitted talk-ko ML for JP discussion)
(Japanese message below)

Hello Maarten,

Thank you for your proposal.
It is very nice time to standardize name:[ko/ja]_*** tag.

I would like to follow-up your proposal in Japanese.


いいだです。

以前、nameタグのローマ字表記（name:ja_rmタグとname:ja-Latnタグ）について
OSM wikiの記載が変更されていた件で少し議論がありましたが、
Maartenさんからのメールは、日本と韓国を対象にして、タグの切り替えを機械的に行いたい、という提案です。
機械的な編集については、セルビアを対象にして行われた実績があります。
https://github.com/osmfj/osm_japan_issues/issues/31

name:ja-Latnタグの表記はBCP47標準をもとに提案されています。
https://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp47

韓国でも2015年に議論があったようですが、
そのときにはname:rm_koを維持する積極的な理由はなかったとのこと。
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gis.openstreetmap.region.ko/204

現在の議論は、OSM KoreaコミュニティのTelegramグループで行われているようです。
https://telegram.me/osmKorea.
（先程、僕も入って少しチャットしました。内容は別途メールします）


Maartenさんのメールのなかでは韓国が主な念頭におかれていますが、
機械的な作業の内容としては日本も同様に作業ができる、とのことで、
日本の状況も聞きたいとのことです。

Telegramでお話した内容、およびいいだ個人の意見を、別途メールします。






2017-10-26 12:06 GMT+09:00 Maarten van den Hoven :

> Dear OSM editors,
>
>
> This email proposes a solution to the Korean and Japanese romanisation
> tagging issue. Since this topic concerns both Korea and Japan it is sent to
> their respective mailing lists.
>
> The tag for romanised korean is currently "name:ko_rm". However, this is
> not the international standard. "ko_rm" was most likely chosen a long time
> ago because people at the time were unformiliar with the global standard as
> seen here (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Korea_Naming_
> Convention). The global standard as defined by the Internet Engineering
> Task Force here (https://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp47) and backed by W3C,
> Unicode, ECMA is "ko-Latn" instead of "ko_rm". Adopting a global standard
> solves confusion over the use of the tag (http://wiki.openstreetmap.
> org/wiki/Multilingual_names#Korea).
>
> This talk has been going on for the past years as seen by the above links
> and this one -> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.
> comp.gis.openstreetmap.region.ko/204
> However, I was unable to find arguments in defense of the "ko_rm" tag.
>
> Therefore, I suggest an edit of the OSM database (following the official
> procedure as defined here https://wiki.openstreetmap.
> org/wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct) of changing all "name:ko_rm"
> tags to "name:ko-Latn", like Serbia did in the past as well (
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names#Serbia).
>
> Before this change is pushed it is of course important to see if anyone
> has objections or other reasons why the "ko_rm" tag was chosen over the
> "ko-Latn" tag.
>
> We encourage editors in Korea to join the OSM Korea Telegram chat group
> here https://telegram.me/osmKorea.
>
> Kind regards.
>
> ___
> Talk-ja mailing list
> Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja
>
>


-- 
Satoshi IIDA
mail: nyamp...@gmail.com
twitter: @nyampire
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[Talk-ca] Carleton University Mapathon

[Kent Jacobs]

Hello all!

 

I am a Masters of Science student in the Geography department at Carleton 
University studying Quality Assessment of OSM data for my thesis. I am also 
currently employed at Employment and Social Development Canada as a Geomatics 
Technician where I have been promoting the use of OSM data within the 
department. 

 

I discussed the idea of a possible mapathon at Carleton University with 
Statistics Canada, the Carleton Geography department and Mapbox. I am reaching 
out (similar to Tim’s post above) to find additional OSM mappers to assist us 
with the mapathon. I am fairly experienced with OSM myself but I have never led 
a mapathon event. I am aware of COMS2200 issues with contributions and do not 
want a repeat of this.  I believe focusing on the OSM Canada Task Manager and 
rural/remote regions will help avoid poor contributions.

 

Any help is much appreciated!

 

Regards,

Kent

 

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Re: [OSM-ja] [Talk-ko] Romanisation: a solution

[Andrew Errington]

Hello Maarten,

I agree with your reasoning that the tag was probably chosen because the
ko-Latn tag was either unknown at the time, or maybe didn't exist.  I searched
for the "correct" tag a few times myself in the past because I suspected
ko_rm was not a recognised language code, but I didn't find a definitive
answer.

I also agree that standards are good in general, so I support the
suggestion to change the ko_rm tag to ko-Latn.  However, I don't know how
many data consumers use the ko_rm tag who would be affected.  I suspect the
number is small because most people in Korea use online maps from Daum and
Naver (the two most popular online portals in Korea).

Regarding the osmKorea group on telegram.me I think it should not be
promoted for two reasons.  Firstly, it seems that the messages can only be
seen with the Telegram app.  They are not visible on a webpage therefore
no-one can read any discussion or contribute without the app.  Secondly,
the OSM community in Korea is small.  Not many people are subscribed to
this list (Talk-ko) and using Telegram will fragment discussions further.
I suppose there is a third reason, and that is the most popular chat
program in Korea is Kakao Talk.

In summary, I support changing ko_rm to ko-Latn, but I don't support using
Telegram for discussion.

Best wishes,

Andrew


On Oct 26, 2017 4:07 PM, "Maarten van den Hoven" 
wrote:

Dear OSM editors,


This email proposes a solution to the Korean and Japanese romanisation
tagging issue. Since this topic concerns both Korea and Japan it is sent to
their respective mailing lists.

The tag for romanised korean is currently "name:ko_rm". However, this is
not the international standard. "ko_rm" was most likely chosen a long time
ago because people at the time were unformiliar with the global standard as
seen here (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Korea_Naming_Convention).
The global standard as defined by the Internet Engineering Task Force here (
https://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp47) and backed by W3C, Unicode, ECMA is
"ko-Latn" instead of "ko_rm". Adopting a global standard solves confusion
over the use of the tag (http://wiki.openstreetmap.
org/wiki/Multilingual_names#Korea).

This talk has been going on for the past years as seen by the above links
and this one -> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gis.openstreetmap.region.
ko/204
However, I was unable to find arguments in defense of the "ko_rm" tag.

Therefore, I suggest an edit of the OSM database (following the official
procedure as defined here https://wiki.openstreetmap.
org/wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct) of changing all "name:ko_rm" tags
to "name:ko-Latn", like Serbia did in the past as well (
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names#Serbia).

Before this change is pushed it is of course important to see if anyone has
objections or other reasons why the "ko_rm" tag was chosen over the
"ko-Latn" tag.

We encourage editors in Korea to join the OSM Korea Telegram chat group
here https://telegram.me/osmKorea.

Kind regards.

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[OSM-ja] Romanisation: a solution

[Maarten van den Hoven]

Dear OSM editors,


This email proposes a solution to the Korean and Japanese romanisation
tagging issue. Since this topic concerns both Korea and Japan it is sent to
their respective mailing lists.

The tag for romanised korean is currently "name:ko_rm". However, this is
not the international standard. "ko_rm" was most likely chosen a long time
ago because people at the time were unformiliar with the global standard as
seen here (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Korea_Naming_Convention).
The global standard as defined by the Internet Engineering Task Force here (
https://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp47) and backed by W3C, Unicode, ECMA is
"ko-Latn" instead of "ko_rm". Adopting a global standard solves confusion
over the use of the tag (
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names#Korea).

This talk has been going on for the past years as seen by the above links
and this one ->
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gis.openstreetmap.region.ko/204
However, I was unable to find arguments in defense of the "ko_rm" tag.

Therefore, I suggest an edit of the OSM database (following the official
procedure as defined here
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct) of
changing all "name:ko_rm" tags to "name:ko-Latn", like Serbia did in the
past as well (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names#Serbia).

Before this change is pushed it is of course important to see if anyone has
objections or other reasons why the "ko_rm" tag was chosen over the
"ko-Latn" tag.

We encourage editors in Korea to join the OSM Korea Telegram chat group
here https://telegram.me/osmKorea.

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Re: [Talk-ca] Severed Dick

[Gordon Dewis]

Maybe someone should put a comment on the features so that we avoid rehashing 
it in the future. :)

On Oct 25, 2017, 20:19 -0400, James , wrote:
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ca/2016-June/007017.html
>
> So we did.
>
> > On Oct 25, 2017 8:08 PM, "Corey Burger"  wrote:
> > > It was discussed in 2016: [Talk-ca] Bike trail name check - Vancouver 
> > > area Pretty much the same discussion. "Mountain bikers are a crude lot"
> > >
> > > Corey
> > >
> > > > On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 5:00 PM, James  wrote:
> > > > > so I'm not crazy, I remember it being discussed as well...just 
> > > > > couldnt find it in my emails or searching on google
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Oct 25, 2017 7:19 PM, "Bernie Connors" 
> > > > > >  wrote:
> > > > > > > I think if somebody did a search of the Talk-ca archives you will 
> > > > > > > find these trail names were previously discussed here. I have 
> > > > > > > never visited these trails but the names ring a bell in my memory 
> > > > > > > and the Talk-ca list is the only place I would have an 
> > > > > > > opportunity to hear about them.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bernie.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Bell network.
> > > > > > > From: Denis Carriere
> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 5:37 PM
> > > > > > > To: Frederik Ramm
> > > > > > > Cc: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Severed Dick
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Unfortunately does names seem legit for that type of mountain 
> > > > > > > bike trails, these are not the first mountain bike trails names 
> > > > > > > I've seen with those types of names.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Seems like source of these edits come from a reputable editor.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > User: BC Trail Guides
> > > > > > > http://osmlab.github.io/osm-deep-history/#/way/402020482
> > > > > > > http://osmlab.github.io/osm-deep-history/#/way/402020492
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This doesn't look like this is a form form of vandalism, that's 
> > > > > > > just BC Canada for you ;)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ~~
> > > > > > > @DenisCarriere
> > > > > > > GIS Software & Systems Specialist
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 11:03 AM, Frederik Ramm 
> > > > > > > >  wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >    noticed a few funny trail names in this region near 
> > > > > > > > > Vancouver:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/49.3365/-122.9791
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Quote possible they really *are* called "Severed Dick", 
> > > > > > > > > "Shorn Scrotum",
> > > > > > > > > and "Cunt Buster", in which case they're of course totally 
> > > > > > > > > legit to have
> > > > > > > > > on the map, however I've come across some made-up names like 
> > > > > > > > > that in the
> > > > > > > > > past too. Maybe someone can check.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Bye
> > > > > > > > > Frederik
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" 
> > > > > > > > > E008°23'33"
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ___
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> > > > > > > > > Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
> > > > > > > > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ___
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> > > > > > > Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
> > > > > > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ___
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> > > > > Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
> > > > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
> > > > >
> > >
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Re: [Talk-ca] Severed Dick

[James]

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ca/2016-June/007017.html

So we did.

On Oct 25, 2017 8:08 PM, "Corey Burger"  wrote:

> It was discussed in 2016: [Talk-ca] Bike trail name check - Vancouver area
> Pretty much the same discussion. "Mountain bikers are a crude lot"
>
> Corey
>
> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 5:00 PM, James  wrote:
>
>> so I'm not crazy, I remember it being discussed as well...just couldnt
>> find it in my emails or searching on google
>>
>> On Oct 25, 2017 7:19 PM, "Bernie Connors" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I think if somebody did a search of the Talk-ca archives you will find
>>> these trail names were previously discussed here. I have never visited
>>> these trails but the names ring a bell in my memory and the Talk-ca list is
>>> the only place I would have an opportunity to hear about them.
>>>
>>> Bernie.
>>>
>>> Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Bell network.
>>> *From: *Denis Carriere
>>> *Sent: *Wednesday, October 25, 2017 5:37 PM
>>> *To: *Frederik Ramm
>>> *Cc: *Talk-CA OpenStreetMap
>>> *Subject: *Re: [Talk-ca] Severed Dick
>>>
>>> Unfortunately does names seem legit for that type of mountain bike
>>> trails, these are not the first mountain bike trails names I've seen with
>>> those types of names.
>>>
>>> Seems like source of these edits come from a reputable editor.
>>>
>>> *User: *BC Trail Guides
>>> 
>>> http://osmlab.github.io/osm-deep-history/#/way/402020482
>>> http://osmlab.github.io/osm-deep-history/#/way/402020492
>>>
>>> This doesn't look like this is a form form of vandalism, that's just BC
>>> Canada for you ;)
>>>
>>> *~~*
>>> *@DenisCarriere*
>>> *GIS Software & Systems Specialist*
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 11:03 AM, Frederik Ramm 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hi,

noticed a few funny trail names in this region near Vancouver:

 https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/49.3365/-122.9791

 Quote possible they really *are* called "Severed Dick", "Shorn Scrotum",
 and "Cunt Buster", in which case they're of course totally legit to have
 on the map, however I've come across some made-up names like that in the
 past too. Maybe someone can check.

 Bye
 Frederik

 --
 Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09"
 E008°23'33"

 ___
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 Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
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>>>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Severed Dick

[Corey Burger]

It was discussed in 2016: [Talk-ca] Bike trail name check - Vancouver area
Pretty much the same discussion. "Mountain bikers are a crude lot"

Corey

On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 5:00 PM, James  wrote:

> so I'm not crazy, I remember it being discussed as well...just couldnt
> find it in my emails or searching on google
>
> On Oct 25, 2017 7:19 PM, "Bernie Connors" 
> wrote:
>
>> I think if somebody did a search of the Talk-ca archives you will find
>> these trail names were previously discussed here. I have never visited
>> these trails but the names ring a bell in my memory and the Talk-ca list is
>> the only place I would have an opportunity to hear about them.
>>
>> Bernie.
>>
>> Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Bell network.
>> *From: *Denis Carriere
>> *Sent: *Wednesday, October 25, 2017 5:37 PM
>> *To: *Frederik Ramm
>> *Cc: *Talk-CA OpenStreetMap
>> *Subject: *Re: [Talk-ca] Severed Dick
>>
>> Unfortunately does names seem legit for that type of mountain bike
>> trails, these are not the first mountain bike trails names I've seen with
>> those types of names.
>>
>> Seems like source of these edits come from a reputable editor.
>>
>> *User: *BC Trail Guides
>> 
>> http://osmlab.github.io/osm-deep-history/#/way/402020482
>> http://osmlab.github.io/osm-deep-history/#/way/402020492
>>
>> This doesn't look like this is a form form of vandalism, that's just BC
>> Canada for you ;)
>>
>> *~~*
>> *@DenisCarriere*
>> *GIS Software & Systems Specialist*
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 11:03 AM, Frederik Ramm 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>noticed a few funny trail names in this region near Vancouver:
>>>
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/49.3365/-122.9791
>>>
>>> Quote possible they really *are* called "Severed Dick", "Shorn Scrotum",
>>> and "Cunt Buster", in which case they're of course totally legit to have
>>> on the map, however I've come across some made-up names like that in the
>>> past too. Maybe someone can check.
>>>
>>> Bye
>>> Frederik
>>>
>>> --
>>> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Talk-ca mailing list
>>> Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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>>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Severed Dick

[James]

so I'm not crazy, I remember it being discussed as well...just couldnt find
it in my emails or searching on google

On Oct 25, 2017 7:19 PM, "Bernie Connors"  wrote:

> I think if somebody did a search of the Talk-ca archives you will find
> these trail names were previously discussed here. I have never visited
> these trails but the names ring a bell in my memory and the Talk-ca list is
> the only place I would have an opportunity to hear about them.
>
> Bernie.
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Bell network.
> *From: *Denis Carriere
> *Sent: *Wednesday, October 25, 2017 5:37 PM
> *To: *Frederik Ramm
> *Cc: *Talk-CA OpenStreetMap
> *Subject: *Re: [Talk-ca] Severed Dick
>
> Unfortunately does names seem legit for that type of mountain bike trails,
> these are not the first mountain bike trails names I've seen with those
> types of names.
>
> Seems like source of these edits come from a reputable editor.
>
> *User: *BC Trail Guides
> 
> http://osmlab.github.io/osm-deep-history/#/way/402020482
> http://osmlab.github.io/osm-deep-history/#/way/402020492
>
> This doesn't look like this is a form form of vandalism, that's just BC
> Canada for you ;)
>
> *~~*
> *@DenisCarriere*
> *GIS Software & Systems Specialist*
>
> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 11:03 AM, Frederik Ramm 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>>noticed a few funny trail names in this region near Vancouver:
>>
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/49.3365/-122.9791
>>
>> Quote possible they really *are* called "Severed Dick", "Shorn Scrotum",
>> and "Cunt Buster", in which case they're of course totally legit to have
>> on the map, however I've come across some made-up names like that in the
>> past too. Maybe someone can check.
>>
>> Bye
>> Frederik
>>
>> --
>> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>>
>> ___
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>> Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
>>
>
>
>
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>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Severed Dick

[Bernie Connors]

  I think if somebody did a search of the Talk-ca archives you will find these trail names were previously discussed here. I have never visited these trails but the names ring a bell in my memory and the Talk-ca list is the only place I would have an opportunity to hear about them. Bernie. Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Bell network.From: Denis CarriereSent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 5:37 PMTo: Frederik RammCc: Talk-CA OpenStreetMapSubject: Re: [Talk-ca] Severed DickUnfortunately does names seem legit for that type of mountain bike trails, these are not the first mountain bike trails names I've seen with those types of names.Seems like source of these edits come from a reputable editor.User: BC Trail Guideshttp://osmlab.github.io/osm-deep-history/#/way/402020482http://osmlab.github.io/osm-deep-history/#/way/402020492This doesn't look like this is a form form of vandalism, that's just BC Canada for you ;)~~@DenisCarriereGIS Software & Systems Specialist
On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 11:03 AM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:Hi,

   noticed a few funny trail names in this region near Vancouver:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/49.3365/-122.9791

Quote possible they really *are* called "Severed Dick", "Shorn Scrotum",
and "Cunt Buster", in which case they're of course totally legit to have
on the map, however I've come across some made-up names like that in the
past too. Maybe someone can check.

Bye
Frederik

--
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [Talk-de] Deutsche Namens-Tags in Polen

[Michael Kugelmann]

Am 25.10.2017 um 18:44 schrieb Markus:

Ausländer haben in fremden Ländern keine Namen zu mappen!
Bitte vor dem Schreiben das Gehirn einschalten: warum soll ich z.B. im 
Urlaub nicht mehr mappen dürfen?
OK, ich gebe zu dass ich den Satz etwas aus dem Zusammenhang reiße. 
Trotzdem...   :-(
Und wenn es irgendwo deutsche Namen gibt dann sind die halt so. Z.B. 
"Avenida de Jahn Reisen" um ein reales Beispiel zu nennen (Fuerteventura).



Ich fände es grauslig wenn OSM von Neonazis infiltriert wäre!

Alter Spruch im Netz: the thread went Nazi and died...


Wehret den Anfängen!
Genau. Und das sollte auch für Vorschriften gelten wer wo nicht zu 
mappen hat.



Just my 2 cents,
Michael (im Moment im "nichtdeutschen Ausland" und dort auch am mappen 
wie schon viele Jahre).



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[Talk-us] We'd like to invite the OpenStreetMap Community this Saturday (10/28) to a Rebuilding Alliance Map-a-thon in Palo Alto, California!

[Ryan Gee]

Hello talk-us osmhot Mappers!

I am writing to invite all in the Palo Alto area and rest of the Bay Area
to join us for Rebuilding Alliance's 'Mapping Palestine' mapathon this
Saturday, October 28th. OSM experts and volunteers made our 'Mapping
Palestine Mapathon' at RightsCon in Belgium a remarkable success earlier in
2017 - we're hoping experienced OSM mappers and mentors nearby will join us
for this one.

Our "Mapping Palestine Mapathon" will be held:
 Saturday, Oct. 28th from 5:00pm to 8:00pm


*Mitchell Park Community Center (Adobe Room) *3700 Middlefield Road.

 Palo Alto, CA 94303


A lovely Mediterranean meal will be provided. This is the start of what we
hope will be dozens of future OpenStreetMap mapathons throughout the SF Bay
Area and also throughout the US, in parallel with an OSM mapping effort
that is moving forward in Palestine.



If you can join us, RSVP so we can plan accordingly.  Hope to see you there!

Sincerely,

Ryan Gee

Mapping Design Engineer, Rebuilding Alliance



-- 
*Ryan Gee*

*Executive Assistant*

*Mapping Program Coordinator*
U.S. Office: +1 (650) 651-7165 <%28650%29%20651-7165>
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Re: [Talk-es] Reunión virtual sobre accesibilidad

[Miguel Sevilla-Callejo]

Enlaces recuperados desde la app de Riot del móvil:

Sala general:
https://matrix.to/#/#openstreetmap-es:matrix.org

Sala de etiquetado:
https://matrix.to/#/#osm-es-etiquetado:matrix.org

Sala de reuniones (está de solo lectura a no ser que haya reunión y yo
estoy entre los administradores):
https://matrix.to/#/#osm-es-reuniones:matrix.org

En esta última podemos hacer la reunión si os parece.

Riot es una magnífica herramienta a ver si volvemos a darle uso.

Un saludo

--
 Miguel Sevilla-Callejo
from my mobile 

El 25/10/2017 22:49, "Miguel Sevilla-Callejo" 
escribió:

> Tenemos tres salas de riot, la general qué solía estar conectada con
> Telegram (algún día lo solucionaremos) que creo que sigue conectada a IRC
> (Si María), una de etiquetado que a penas se ha usado y otra de reuniones
> organizadas (llevamos una temporada sin usar).
>
> Disculpad que no pase los enlaces, pues estoy en el móvil, pero están por
> ahí.
>
> Yo propongo hacerla en la sala de reuniones.
>
> Un saludo
>
> --
>  Miguel Sevilla-Callejo
> from my mobile 
>
> El 25/10/2017 22:35, "María Arias de Reyna"  escribió:
>
>>
>>
>> 2017-10-25 22:21 GMT+02:00 Carlos Cámara :
>>
>>> Buenas a todos. Disculpad la demora en responder, pero esta semana se ha
>>> vuelto una locura contra todo pronóstico.
>>>
>>> Gracias a los que habéis votado. Tras ver todos los votos, no hay
>>> ninguna opción que venga bien a los 7 participantes, y el único día con 6/7
>>> votos es el 1 de noviembre de 21:30 a 22:30, con lo cual tenemos fecha y
>>> hora (Hora española peninsular). Entiendo que el lugar de reunión será la
>>> sala de Riot, pero no tengo experiencia en eso, así que decidme si voy
>>> errado o añadid la información necesaria.
>>>
>>
>> Hago una aparición estelar para decir "¿La sala de Riot no era un puente
>> a irc?" y desaparezco otra vez detrás de una cortina de humo.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Gracias Miguel por la propuesta de hacer entrada en la wiki. Tienes
>>> razón en que es lo más razonable y podemos usarla también para resumir lo
>>> tratado.
>>>
>>> Saludos,
>>>
>>> Carlos Cámara
>>> http://carloscamara.es
>>>
>>> 2017-10-25 20:37 GMT+02:00 Johnattan Rupire :
>>>
 Muy interesante la iniciativa, yo también me sumaría a la reunión, le
 voy a avisando a otros interesados en Perú.

 Saludos!


 ___
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 Talk-es@openstreetmap.org
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>>>
>>>
>>> ___
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>>>
>>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Severed Dick

[Denis Carriere]

Unfortunately does names seem legit for that type of mountain bike trails,
these are not the first mountain bike trails names I've seen with those
types of names.

Seems like source of these edits come from a reputable editor.

*User: *BC Trail Guides

http://osmlab.github.io/osm-deep-history/#/way/402020482
http://osmlab.github.io/osm-deep-history/#/way/402020492

This doesn't look like this is a form form of vandalism, that's just BC
Canada for you ;)

*~~*
*@DenisCarriere*
*GIS Software & Systems Specialist*

On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 11:03 AM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Hi,
>
>noticed a few funny trail names in this region near Vancouver:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/49.3365/-122.9791
>
> Quote possible they really *are* called "Severed Dick", "Shorn Scrotum",
> and "Cunt Buster", in which case they're of course totally legit to have
> on the map, however I've come across some made-up names like that in the
> past too. Maybe someone can check.
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
> ___
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Re: [Talk-es] Reunión virtual sobre accesibilidad

[María Arias de Reyna]

2017-10-25 22:21 GMT+02:00 Carlos Cámara :

> Buenas a todos. Disculpad la demora en responder, pero esta semana se ha
> vuelto una locura contra todo pronóstico.
>
> Gracias a los que habéis votado. Tras ver todos los votos, no hay ninguna
> opción que venga bien a los 7 participantes, y el único día con 6/7 votos
> es el 1 de noviembre de 21:30 a 22:30, con lo cual tenemos fecha y hora
> (Hora española peninsular). Entiendo que el lugar de reunión será la sala
> de Riot, pero no tengo experiencia en eso, así que decidme si voy errado o
> añadid la información necesaria.
>

Hago una aparición estelar para decir "¿La sala de Riot no era un puente a
irc?" y desaparezco otra vez detrás de una cortina de humo.


>
> Gracias Miguel por la propuesta de hacer entrada en la wiki. Tienes razón
> en que es lo más razonable y podemos usarla también para resumir lo tratado.
>
> Saludos,
>
> Carlos Cámara
> http://carloscamara.es
>
> 2017-10-25 20:37 GMT+02:00 Johnattan Rupire :
>
>> Muy interesante la iniciativa, yo también me sumaría a la reunión, le voy
>> a avisando a otros interesados en Perú.
>>
>> Saludos!
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es
>>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-es] Reunión virtual sobre accesibilidad

[Carlos Cámara]

Buenas a todos. Disculpad la demora en responder, pero esta semana se ha
vuelto una locura contra todo pronóstico.

Gracias a los que habéis votado. Tras ver todos los votos, no hay ninguna
opción que venga bien a los 7 participantes, y el único día con 6/7 votos
es el 1 de noviembre de 21:30 a 22:30, con lo cual tenemos fecha y hora
(Hora española peninsular). Entiendo que el lugar de reunión será la sala
de Riot, pero no tengo experiencia en eso, así que decidme si voy errado o
añadid la información necesaria.

Gracias Miguel por la propuesta de hacer entrada en la wiki. Tienes razón
en que es lo más razonable y podemos usarla también para resumir lo tratado.

Saludos,

Carlos Cámara
http://carloscamara.es

2017-10-25 20:37 GMT+02:00 Johnattan Rupire :

> Muy interesante la iniciativa, yo también me sumaría a la reunión, le voy
> a avisando a otros interesados en Perú.
>
> Saludos!
>
>
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Re: [Talk-ee] Haldusreform

[Tormi Tabor]

Suhtlesin Maa-ametiga. Vana asukoht ja struktuur säilib ;)

Taust: https://github.com/buildig/EHAK/issues/51#issuecomment-339177579

Tervitades,
Tormi Tabor
5451 3000

9. oktoober 2017 17:02 kirjutas Tormi Tabor :

> Aitäh uue failide asukoha URLi eest! Ehk annab mappida. Tegin issue, et
> meelest ei läheks: https://github.com/buildig/EHAK/issues/51
>
> Geogig-i ei ole proovinud.
>
> Tormi
>
>
> 9. oktoober 2017 16:34 kirjutas Jaak Laineste :
>
>>
>> Äge!
>>
>> Mõistagi on maaamet pannud uued piirid teisele lehele ja pisut teise
>> andmete struktuuriga, et omapoolne diffi kavalus keeruliseks kui mitte
>> võimatuks muuta (nt aname -> a_name atribuudi nimes jms)
>> http://geoportaal.maaamet.ee/est/Andmed-ja-kaardid/
>> Haldus-ja-asustusjaotus/Haldusreformijargsed-haldus-ja-
>> asustusjaotuse-piirid-p577.html
>>
>> p.s. http://geogig.org/ oled katsetanud?
>>
>> Jaak
>>
>> On 9 Oct 2017, at 13:50, Tormi Tabor  wrote:
>>
>> Tere.
>> '
>> Lihtsalt infoks, et ma login aadressil https://github.com/buildig/EHAK/
>> juba mõnda aega igakuiselt Maa-ameti shapefaile. Konverdin need enne csv-ks
>> ja json-iks, et info muutuks versioneeritavaks. Viimase muudatuse (sept >
>> okt) logi: https://github.com/buildig/EHAK/pull/50/commits/58a103
>> 6f92f416d82c2feedfa7f1e4c64e9bdaab
>>
>> Tervitades,
>> Tormi Tabor
>> 5451 3000
>>
>> 9. oktoober 2017 11:04 kirjutas Jaak Laineste :
>>
>>> Hoi,
>>>
>>> Käes on 2017 ja haldusreform, ning ette tuleks võtta “väike” OSM
>>> parandus:
>>>
>>> a) Halduspiirid.
>>>  - Uued maakonnad, vallad ja külad on Shapefailidena saadaval maaameti
>>> kodulehel. Seda saab taustainfona kasutada, parandused tuleks minumeelest
>>> käsitsi teha.
>>>  - Külade tasemel on vist muutunud eelkõige nimed.
>>>  - Uusi valdu on õnneks vähem kui vanu - vanad tuleks vist kõik
>>> kustutada ja uued tekitada uutest küladest ükshaaval
>>>  - Uued maakonnad teha uutest valdadadest/omavalistustest
>>>  - võib teha mingi jagatud wikilehe (google docs?) kus on kirjas mis
>>> külad/vallad on üle vaadatud ja parandatud?
>>>
>>> b) aadressid.
>>>  - peaks tekkima aadressregistris (ADS) tabel, kus on vana ja uus
>>> aadress. hetkel veel vist pole. On online web-teenus küll juba.
>>>  - Üldiselt ADS mõistes lühiaadressid, mida me punktidena kaardistame
>>> (tänava nimi ja majanumber), ei tohiks isegi muutuda, muutub
>>> küla/omavalitsus mis läheb automaatselt korda kui on halduspiirid
>>> korrigeeritud.
>>>  - Maaamet on lubanud ka sihtnumbreid/postiindekseid ADS-i juurde,
>>> kuidas neid kaardistada ma hästi ei teagi. Variandid oleks tekitada
>>> piirkonnad (aga Eesti postiindeks pole sisuliselt geograafiline), või siis
>>> igale aadresspunktile indeks juurde tag-ina; või siis suisa relatsioonidena
>>> lahendada teha (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org
>>> /wiki/Tag:boundary%3Dpostal_code
>>> ).
>>>
>>>
>>> Mõlema kohta ettepanekud teretulnud.
>>>
>>> Jaak
>>>
>>>
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Re: [Talk-es] Reunión virtual sobre accesibilidad

[Johnattan Rupire]

Muy interesante la iniciativa, yo también me sumaría a la reunión, le 
voy a avisando a otros interesados en Perú.


Saludos!

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Re: [Talk-de] Deutsche Namens-Tags in Polen

[Michael Reichert]

Hallo Stefan,

Am 25.10.2017 um 13:53 schrieb SteMo:
> Wie steht Ihr dazu?

Das Thema ist schon oft genug durchgekaut worden. Ich kann mich an
zahlreiche Diskussionen im Forum erinnern, hier eine Auswahl:

https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=25131
https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=25719
https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=56459
https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=32361

Weitere Diskussionen findest du mit einschlägigen Suchbegriffen über die
Suchmaschine deiner Wahl – vermutlich auch auf dieser Mailingliste.

Viele Grüße

Michael

-- 
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Re: [Talk-de] Deutsche Namens-Tags in Polen

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 25. Oct 2017, at 18:44, Markus  wrote:
> 
> Ich fände es grauslig wenn OSM von Neonazis infiltriert wäre!
> Wehret den Anfängen!


wobei nur weil jemand einen Namen aus der Nazizeit einträgt er dadurch nicht 
automatisch Neonazi sein muss.

Gruß,
Martin 
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Re: [Talk-de] Deutsche Namens-Tags in Polen

[Tom Pfeifer]

On 25.10.2017 16:58, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:

Ist old_name eine Liste?


Eine Semikolon-Liste? Eher nicht, aber grade bei old_name bietet sich an, die 
Jahreszahlen anzugeben:

old_name:[]-= bzw. old_name:de:[]-=
bzw. auch mit genauem Tag.

Dann sortiert sich die Umbenennungspraxis schön in den historischen Kontext.

Hm, ich dachte das wäre besser dokumentiert :-( Die Wiki-seite ist nur ein 
Redirect auf name.

Beim blick auf
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/old_name#similar
sind bei genauem Datum Varianten mit einem oder zwei Bindestrichen gebräuchlich:

old_name:1969-10-18-1970-01-01
old_name:1962-03-21--1965-02-11

On 25.10.2017 18:44, Markus wrote:
> Vielleicht kann ja die DWG prüfen, wer diese Einträge macht, und ggf. entsprechende Massnahmen 
ergreifen.


Das hat sie in offenkundigen Fällen ja auch bereits gemacht.

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Rapprochement Bano

[Christian Quest]

Le 25/10/2017 à 19:02, pepilepi...@ovh.fr a écrit :

Le 25/10/2017 à 15:55, Christian Quest a écrit :

Ce fameux "rouge" on le voit par exemple ici:
http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/~cquest/leaflet/bano.html#7/47.000/2.000

Ce sont les adresses connues de BANO mais avec un nom de voie que l'on
n'a pas retrouvé dans OSM et que l'on peut donc ajouter pour qu'OSM
soit plus complet sur les noms de rues. Il en reste donc environ 160
000 à ajouter.

Exemple (plus proche):
http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/~cquest/leaflet/bano.html#18/48.86048/3.15177

Bonsoir,

Mais comment interpréter ça ? Sur cet exemple l'espèce de grand cigare
marqué "rue de Saint Germain" est il un nuage de probabilité dans lequel
BANO cherche une rue de Saint Germain, qui serait alors la D37A ?

Et que faire des numéros (quand il n'y en a aucun dans OSM) ? Peut-on
importer brutalement la couche BANO pour ensuite peaufiner en déplaçant
chaque numéro à sa place (avec JOSM) ?

Merci,

Jean-Pierre



Les explications sur le rendu BANO sont ici: 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:WikiProject_France/WikiProject_Base_Adresses_Nationale_Ouverte_(BANO)#Rendu_BANO


Les adresses de la rue St Germain sont entourées, on peut ainsi 
facilement identifier les limites de cette rue qui va de la limite de la 
commune à l'intersection avec la D37.


Pour les numéros, si on a envie de les intégrer on peut le faire, mais 
ça prend beaucoup de temps et il semble bien plus utile dans un premier 
temps d'avoir déjà toutes les rues nommées. Pour ceux qui de toute façon 
ont besoin d'utiliser une base d'adresses, les données de BANO sont là ;)


--
Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Rapprochement Bano

[pepilepi...@ovh.fr]

Le 25/10/2017 à 15:55, Christian Quest a écrit :
> Ce fameux "rouge" on le voit par exemple ici:
> http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/~cquest/leaflet/bano.html#7/47.000/2.000
>
> Ce sont les adresses connues de BANO mais avec un nom de voie que l'on
> n'a pas retrouvé dans OSM et que l'on peut donc ajouter pour qu'OSM
> soit plus complet sur les noms de rues. Il en reste donc environ 160
> 000 à ajouter.
>
> Exemple (plus proche):
> http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/~cquest/leaflet/bano.html#18/48.86048/3.15177

Bonsoir,

Mais comment interpréter ça ? Sur cet exemple l'espèce de grand cigare
marqué "rue de Saint Germain" est il un nuage de probabilité dans lequel
BANO cherche une rue de Saint Germain, qui serait alors la D37A ?

Et que faire des numéros (quand il n'y en a aucun dans OSM) ? Peut-on
importer brutalement la couche BANO pour ensuite peaufiner en déplaçant
chaque numéro à sa place (avec JOSM) ?

Merci,

Jean-Pierre

>
>
> Pour les points en violet, ce sont des adresses issues des fichiers du
> cadastre désormais en opendata. C'est un peu expérimental, mais ça
> peut être utile.
>
>
>
> Le 25/10/2017 à 15:14, Cédric Frayssinet a écrit :
>> Bonjour,
>>
>> N'étant pas expert et ayant rejoint la communauté qu'il y a quelques
>> semaines, pouvez-vous préciser le travail accompli et le travail
>> restant à faire ? Quel est l'outil utilisé ?
>>
>> Merci, Cédric
>


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Re: [Talk-de] Deutsche Namens-Tags in Polen

[Markus]

Hallo Stefan,

> mal eine Frage zu den Deutschen Namen/Bezeichnungen in Polen:
> Das finde ich aus zumindest zwei Gründen komplett unangebracht:
> 1. Wir Deutsche sollten uns in keiner Weise anmaßen 
> 2. In Polen _keine_ Verwendung dieser Bezeichnungen 
> 
> Mir als deutschen ist es regelrecht peinlich

Mir als in DE lebender OSMer ebenfalls.
Ausländer haben in fremden Ländern keine Namen zu mappen!

Vielleicht kann ja die DWG prüfen, wer diese Einträge macht,
und ggf. entsprechende Massnahmen ergreifen.

Ich fände es grauslig wenn OSM von Neonazis infiltriert wäre!
Wehret den Anfängen!

Mit herzlichem Gruss,
Markus

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Re: [OSM-talk] Topology rules

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 25. Oct 2017, at 17:36, Gaurav Thapa  wrote:
> 
> In Nepal we have been trying to make sure that each constructed building has 
> its own footprint and is not connected to a neighbouring structure via a 
> shared wall. We do this as in reality this is the case as each building 
> structure though built next to each other has its own footprint (independent 
> foundation).


yes, you can find both situations: a single dividing wall used by both 
neighboring buildings (in Europe this occurs mostly with medieval buildings), 
or each building has its own walls (and foundations), but without a significant 
space between them (e.g. 2 cm of insulating material). 

I would treat both situations the same and use shared nodes, but maybe wouldn’t 
object if someone purposefully mapped the latter as 2 almost-touching 
buildings, although the osm building ways usually describe the footprint of the 
completed building (i.e. with facades, cladding etc.) and not the raw load 
bearing structure.

cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [Talk-de] Deutsche Namens-Tags in Polen

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 25. Oct 2017, at 16:36, Christoph Hormann  wrote:
> 
> Wie sieht es aus mit http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/3374767? 
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1882099475?


was ist hiermit?
http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1777331
dass der Ort (place) einen deutschen Namen hat, finde ich nachvollziehbar, aber 
vererbt sich das auch auf administrative Entitäten? Haben die polnischen 
Verwaltungseinheiten alle bzw. großteils auch deutsche Namen, oder ist da 
jemand zu weit gegangen?


Bei Städten (place) ist das evtl. weniger wichtig, aber z.B. bei Straßen muss 
man ein bisschen aufpassen, ob der old_name wirklich für diesen 
Straßenabschnitt an dieser Stelle war (insb. wenn man keine abstrakte Straße 
wie z.B. eine relation verwendet, sondern ein konkretes Stück highway), oder ob 
es vielleicht eine Straße ungefähr dort mal gab bzw. die diese Funktion hatte 
(z.B. Hauptstraßen werden im Detail manchmal verlegt zwecks Umgehung von 
bewohnten Zentren bzw. wegen Fußgängerzonen, etc., oder sie werden vergrößert. 
Stellt Euch vor, aus einer Straße werden 2 Fahrbahnen wg. Verbreiterung, sollen 
dann beide Fahrbahnen den old_name tag bekommen, obwohl es eine davon (oder gar 
beide) zu Zeiten dieses Namens noch gar nicht gab?


Z.B. hier: http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/78298215#map=16/52.5159/13.3733

https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/de:Straße%20des%2017.%20Juni?uselang=en-GB

wikipedia sagt, die Straße sei 1697 angelegt worden, aber das ist nur eine 
nackte Zahl, tatsächlich ist die Straße mehrfach verbreitert und umgebaut 
worden, zuletzt signifikant durch Albert Speer. Was muss gewährleistet sein, 
damit wir sagen: das ist ein neuer Name für dasselbe, und nicht einfach was 
neues mit anderem Namen, aber an ungefähr derselben Stelle?

Gruß,
Martin 
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Re: [Talk-cz] OpenAlt 2017 a SOTM CZ 2017

[Ladislav Nesnera]

ještě týden a je to tady. Za SOTM vše připraveno a "Tmáři" závity nahžaveny?

Každopádně poprosím o mohutné sdílení a šíření i mimo maperské kruhy,
neboť tématických okruhů je mnoho a obsah rozhodně není přízemní. Jen na
oběžnou dráhu se podíváme hned 2x - CapSat a CubeSat.

(to mi připomíná, že se vypuštění "brněnského" satelitu chystá a je jen
na důvtipu zapojených , zda to
bude přitroublý pípák, nebo něco opravdu užitečného)

# tiskovka - https://www.openalt.org/OpenAlt2017
# FB - https://www.facebook.com/events/1530951016963186/
# Twitter - https://twitter.com/OpenAlt
# témata - https://openalt.cz/2017/program.php

Díky a první listopadový víkend v Brně!

;?

On 16.10.2017 20:58, Marián Kyral wrote:
> Ahoj,
> pro ty kdo nezaregistrovali, konference SOTM CZ 2017 se bude konat v
> rámci akce OpenAlt 2017, ve dnech 4. a 5. listopadu v Brně. Kromě SOTM
> tam bude i hromada dalších přednášek, tak neváhejte, registrujte se
> (zdarma) a doražte v co nejhojnějším počtu (ať tam netrapasím před
> prázdným sálem :-D)
>
> Program SOTM CZ: https://openalt.cz/2017/program_detail.php#track4
> Kompletní program: https://openalt.cz/2017/program.php
> Web: https://openalt.cz/2017/
>
> Marián
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Topology rules

[Dave F]

Could you link to an example?

DaveF

On 25/10/2017 16:36, Gaurav Thapa wrote:

"2. Buildings.
If 2 buildings share a wall or are constructed one aside the other 
(double wall), you should have them connected in OSM as well."


In Nepal we have been trying to make sure that each constructed 
building has its own footprint and is not connected to a neighbouring 
structure via a shared wall. We do this as in reality this is the case 
as each building structure though built next to each other has its own 
footprint (independent foundation). We have changed many buildings 
that have been drawn as suggested by you Martin (previously traced by 
remote mappers especially in highway towns of Nepal).


So, there if there is a set of rules it would help us as well.

Regards

On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 4:48 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer 
> wrote:


2017-10-25 11:50 GMT+02:00 Tomas Straupis >:

Hello

  For a long time I wanted to hear opinion on the topic of
topology rules.

  By "topology rules" here I mean just simple rules such as:
  * polygon X should not overlap polygon Y
  * polygon X should always be above polygon Y
  * point X should be not further from line Y than D
  etc.




most important is IMHO: when do you share nodes, and when not.


1. E.g. political boundaries usually should reuse the same border
ways (=no gap between entities).

Other examples:

2. Buildings.
If 2 buildings share a wall or are constructed one aside the other
(double wall), you should have them connected in OSM as well.

If a square is delimited by buildings, the place=square object
should share ways with the buildings.
etc.

Some mappers tend to map these things very close but distinct,
which IMHO is a topology error.
The rule I want to see: map in a way that it represents reality
nicely.

3. Roads and areas:
Some mappers connect "incompatible" object types (centre lines of
roads and areas). The areas should end at their border and not be
extended.

Cheers,
Martin

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Kathmandu Living Labs


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Re: [Talk-de] Deutsche Namens-Tags in Polen

[Heinz-Jürgen Oertel]

Am Mittwoch, 25. Oktober 2017, 16:31:40 CEST schrieb Stefan Kopetzky:
> Das Problem hat OSMand nicht nur in Polen, sondern etwa auch in anderen
> Teilen Osteuropas (Ukraine, Ungarn, Rumänien), wo einige großflächig die
> deutschsprachingen Bezeichnungen aus der Österr.-Ung.-Monarchie
> eingepflegt haben und die dort in der Praxis wenig bis gar keine
> Anwendung finden.

Das trifft in Teilen Rumänines (Siebenbürgen, Banat, Dobrudscha) auch Ungarns 
und Ukraine nicht zu, hat auch wenig mit K.u.K. zu tun.  Die, zugegeben stark 
zurückgegangene, deutschsprachige Bevölkerung nutzt diese Namen noch immer. 

Grüße
 Heinz


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Re: [Talk-de] Deutsche Namens-Tags in Polen

[SteMo]

rainerU schrieb am 25.10.17 um 17:15:
> Am 25.10.2017 um 16:31 schrieb Stefan Kopetzky:
>> Zudem, gerade bei OSMand, wird in der deutschen Sprachversion immer
>> name:de verwendet, verwirrt, das den jeweiligen User nicht nur in Polen.
> Man kann Osmand auch so konfigurieren, dass die lokalen Namen angezeigt 
> werden,
> also der Wert von name=*. Allerdings wirkt das nicht bei der Übersichtskarte,
> also in den niedrigen Zoomstufen.

Naja, nicht ausschließlich. Beim hereinzoomen erscheinen tatsächlich ab
einer speziellen Zoomstufe die lokalen Namen, aber herausgezoomt die
Systemsprache von Android. Deswegen schieb ich ja, daß es ein Bug in
OsmAnd ist.

Viele Grüße
Stefan

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Re: [OSM-talk] Topology rules

[Gaurav Thapa]

"2. Buildings.
If 2 buildings share a wall or are constructed one aside the other (double
wall), you should have them connected in OSM as well."

In Nepal we have been trying to make sure that each constructed building
has its own footprint and is not connected to a neighbouring structure via
a shared wall. We do this as in reality this is the case as each building
structure though built next to each other has its own footprint
(independent foundation). We have changed many buildings that have been
drawn as suggested by you Martin (previously traced by remote mappers
especially in highway towns of Nepal).

So, there if there is a set of rules it would help us as well.

Regards

On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 4:48 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote:

> 2017-10-25 11:50 GMT+02:00 Tomas Straupis :
>
>> Hello
>>
>>   For a long time I wanted to hear opinion on the topic of topology rules.
>>
>>   By "topology rules" here I mean just simple rules such as:
>>   * polygon X should not overlap polygon Y
>>   * polygon X should always be above polygon Y
>>   * point X should be not further from line Y than D
>>   etc.
>>
>
>
>
> most important is IMHO: when do you share nodes, and when not.
>
>
> 1. E.g. political boundaries usually should reuse the same border ways
> (=no gap between entities).
>
> Other examples:
>
> 2. Buildings.
> If 2 buildings share a wall or are constructed one aside the other (double
> wall), you should have them connected in OSM as well.
>
> If a square is delimited by buildings, the place=square object should
> share ways with the buildings.
> etc.
>
> Some mappers tend to map these things very close but distinct, which IMHO
> is a topology error.
> The rule I want to see: map in a way that it represents reality nicely.
>
> 3. Roads and areas:
> Some mappers connect "incompatible" object types (centre lines of roads
> and areas). The areas should end at their border and not be extended.
>
> Cheers,
> Martin
>
> ___
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>
>


-- 
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Re: [Talk-ca] Severed Dick

[Charles Basenga Kiyanda]

As others have said, mountain bike trails can have surprising names for
those not in their community. (I'm not a mountain biker, but the same is
true for rock climbing routes.)

This community website has the c-buster trail at about the same
location. There is a note that this trail is unsanctioned. It doesn't
mean that it doesn't exist, but probably that the park where it's
located doesn't recognize it as an official trail.

https://www.trailforks.com/trails/c-buster/


Severed D also exists on the same website:

https://www.trailforks.com/trails/severed-d/


My guess is that the names are real. To be absolutely sure, one would
have to contact a couple mountain bike shops in the area.

Charles



On 2017-10-25 11:15 AM, James wrote:
> I highly doubt those are real names, but then again we have towns like
> this one: http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1452579483
>
> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 11:03 AM, Frederik Ramm  > wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>    noticed a few funny trail names in this region near Vancouver:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/49.3365/-122.9791
> 
>
> Quote possible they really *are* called "Severed Dick", "Shorn
> Scrotum",
> and "Cunt Buster", in which case they're of course totally legit
> to have
> on the map, however I've come across some made-up names like that
> in the
> past too. Maybe someone can check.
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org
>   ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
> ___
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> 
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> 外に遊びに行こう！
>
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Severed Dick

[James]

Atleast they censor it a bit:
https://www.trailforks.com/trails/lower-cbuster/
https://www.trailforks.com/trails/c-buster/
https://www.trailforks.com/trails/severed-d/

On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 11:20 AM, James  wrote:

> Well aparently they are the proper names...http://nsmba.ca/trail-maps/
>
> *sigh*
>
> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 11:15 AM, James  wrote:
>
>> I highly doubt those are real names, but then again we have towns like
>> this one: http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1452579483
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 11:03 AM, Frederik Ramm 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>noticed a few funny trail names in this region near Vancouver:
>>>
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/49.3365/-122.9791
>>>
>>> Quote possible they really *are* called "Severed Dick", "Shorn Scrotum",
>>> and "Cunt Buster", in which case they're of course totally legit to have
>>> on the map, however I've come across some made-up names like that in the
>>> past too. Maybe someone can check.
>>>
>>> Bye
>>> Frederik
>>>
>>> --
>>> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>>>
>>> ___
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>>> Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> 外に遊びに行こう！
>>
>
>
>
> --
> 外に遊びに行こう！
>



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Re: [Talk-ca] Severed Dick

[James]

Well aparently they are the proper names...http://nsmba.ca/trail-maps/

*sigh*

On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 11:15 AM, James  wrote:

> I highly doubt those are real names, but then again we have towns like
> this one: http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1452579483
>
> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 11:03 AM, Frederik Ramm 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>>noticed a few funny trail names in this region near Vancouver:
>>
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/49.3365/-122.9791
>>
>> Quote possible they really *are* called "Severed Dick", "Shorn Scrotum",
>> and "Cunt Buster", in which case they're of course totally legit to have
>> on the map, however I've come across some made-up names like that in the
>> past too. Maybe someone can check.
>>
>> Bye
>> Frederik
>>
>> --
>> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>>
>> ___
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>> Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
>>
>
>
>
> --
> 外に遊びに行こう！
>



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Re: [Talk-de] Deutsche Namens-Tags in Polen

[rainerU]

Am 25.10.2017 um 16:31 schrieb Stefan Kopetzky:
> Zudem, gerade bei OSMand, wird in der deutschen Sprachversion immer
> name:de verwendet, verwirrt, das den jeweiligen User nicht nur in Polen.
Man kann Osmand auch so konfigurieren, dass die lokalen Namen angezeigt werden,
also der Wert von name=*. Allerdings wirkt das nicht bei der Übersichtskarte,
also in den niedrigen Zoomstufen.

> Das Problem hat OSMand nicht nur in Polen, sondern etwa auch in anderen
> Teilen Osteuropas (Ukraine, Ungarn, Rumänien), wo einige großflächig die
> deutschsprachingen Bezeichnungen aus der Österr.-Ung.-Monarchie
> eingepflegt haben und die dort in der Praxis wenig bis gar keine
> Anwendung finden.
Auch in Frankreich hat mal ein Mapper heute völlig unübliche deutschsprachige
Bezeichnungen eingepflegt, z.B. Bisanz (Besançon) und Tolosen (Toulouse). Ich
habe diese Bezeichnungen in old_name:de verschoben.



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Re: [Talk-ca] Severed Dick

[James]

I highly doubt those are real names, but then again we have towns like this
one: http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1452579483

On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 11:03 AM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Hi,
>
>noticed a few funny trail names in this region near Vancouver:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/49.3365/-122.9791
>
> Quote possible they really *are* called "Severed Dick", "Shorn Scrotum",
> and "Cunt Buster", in which case they're of course totally legit to have
> on the map, however I've come across some made-up names like that in the
> past too. Maybe someone can check.
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
> ___
> Talk-ca mailing list
> Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
>



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Re: [Talk-ca] Severed Dick

[Corey Burger]

These are almost certainly moutain bike trail names, which run from the
merely childish to the fully disgusting.

Corey

On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 8:03 AM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Hi,
>
>noticed a few funny trail names in this region near Vancouver:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/49.3365/-122.9791
>
> Quote possible they really *are* called "Severed Dick", "Shorn Scrotum",
> and "Cunt Buster", in which case they're of course totally legit to have
> on the map, however I've come across some made-up names like that in the
> past too. Maybe someone can check.
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Severed Dick

[Begin Daniel]

Terrible names indeed! 
Google provides pictures of those terrible bike trails but as I am not a BC 
resident, I can't be sure they are actually named that way :-)
Daniel

-Original Message-
From: Frederik Ramm [mailto:frede...@remote.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, 25 October, 2017 11:04
To: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap
Subject: [Talk-ca] Severed Dick

Hi,

   noticed a few funny trail names in this region near Vancouver:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/49.3365/-122.9791

Quote possible they really *are* called "Severed Dick", "Shorn Scrotum", and 
"Cunt Buster", in which case they're of course totally legit to have on the 
map, however I've come across some made-up names like that in the past too. 
Maybe someone can check.

Bye
Frederik

--
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [Talk-de] Deutsche Namens-Tags in Polen

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 25. Oct 2017, at 16:36, Christoph Hormann  wrote:
> 
> Nimm zum Beispiel http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/20830918 - kaum 
> jemand dürfte hier die Überprüfbarkeit von old_name in Zweifel ziehen. 
> Ist das jetzt OK, weil der Allgemeingebrauch weniger lange zurück liegt 


ja


> oder weil einem Karl Marx weniger peinlich ist als Hitler und Göring?  m


vielleicht eher, weil der Name länger und intensiver in Benutzung war als z.B. 
eine Adolf-Hitler-Straße im Protektorat Böhmen und Mähren, die es maximal 6 
Jahre gegeben hat, und die in einer anderen als der Mehrheitssprache war - 
vielleicht sollte das dann auch in old_name und nicht in old_name:de, weil das 
der Default war damals?
 
Ist old_name eine Liste?

> Wie sieht es aus mit http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/3374767? 


ja eben, müsste da nicht auch Zarizyn in den old_name tag zusätzlich?


> http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1882099475?


ja eben, dazu kommt, dass es ab einer gewissen Zeit zurück auch in derselben 
Sprache nicht nur einheitliche Schreibweisen gibt, so dass sich theoretisch 
eine ganze weitere Menge Varianten hinzufügen ließen 

Gruß,
Martin 

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Re: [Talk-ca] Planning mapathon @ McGill in OSM Geo Week

[Harald Kliems]

There is a Montreal-specific listserv: 
Harald (who no longer lives in Montreal)

On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 4:38 AM James  wrote:

> I think Pierre is a good contact for the local Montreal group.
>
> On Oct 24, 2017 11:02 PM, "Tim Elrick, Dr."  wrote:
>
>> Hello OSMappers,
>>
>>
>>
>> I am Tim Elrick, heading the Geographic Information Centre at McGill. I
>> am involved with organizing a mapathon at McGill in Montreal in OSM Geo
>> Week in November. I am reaching out to you to find local experienced
>> mappers to support us in the mapathon (I followed the discussion on talk-ca
>> in the last couple of weeks).
>>
>>
>>
>> It would be great if someone could get me in touch with local OSMappers?
>> (My idea was to go to the next OSM event in Montreal; however,
>> unfortunately, it seems too close to OSM Geo Week, to start the contacts
>> only then.)
>>
>>
>>
>> Beside the mapathon, McGill students who worked as volunteers at the last
>> HOT summit are currently setting up a mapping group (OMG McGill, Open
>> Mapping Group McGill). They slowly want to build up OSMapping expertise to
>> work on HOT tasks, Building Canada 2020 tasks as well as adding to OSM in
>> Montreal. The group would appreciate to have a contact to established
>> OSMappers here as well.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks a lot!
>>
>>
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Tim
>>
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Re: [Talk-de] Deutsche Namens-Tags in Polen

[Christoph Hormann]

On Wednesday 25 October 2017, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> > "Hitlerplatz", "Göringallee" und so was dürften im Allgemeinen wohl
> > in die zweite Kategorie fallen.
>
> d.h. Du würdest das so eintragen? Auch als old_name hierzulande?

Ich würde so was nicht eintragen, schlicht und einfach weil ich solche 
Namen nicht kenne.

Ich würde mir aber nicht herausnehmen, einem älteren Mapper, der sich an 
entsprechende Namen erinnert, zu untersagen, so was einzutragen.  Am 
Ende ist das eine Frage der Überprüfbarkeit.  Ich denke, dass die 
Überprüfbarkeit aber oft deutlich länger erhalten bleibt - durch 
Präsenz in der Erinnerung älterer Zeitgenossen wie auch in der 
Überlieferung und Literatur (ja, damit meine ich auch 'Opas Geschichten 
aus dem Krieg' und so) als der Allgemein-Gebrauch und damit die Eignung 
für name/name:de.

Nimm zum Beispiel http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/20830918 - kaum 
jemand dürfte hier die Überprüfbarkeit von old_name in Zweifel ziehen. 
Ist das jetzt OK, weil der Allgemeingebrauch weniger lange zurück liegt 
oder weil einem Karl Marx weniger peinlich ist als Hitler und Göring?  
Wie sieht es aus mit http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/3374767? 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1882099475?

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [Talk-de] Deutsche Namens-Tags in Polen

[Stefan Kopetzky]

On 2017-10-25 15:19, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:

>> On 25. Oct 2017, at 13:53, SteMo  wrote:
>> 2. In Polen findet man, mit wenigen Ausnahmen auf historischen
>> Baudenkmälern oder in Geschichtsbüchern _keine_ Verwendung dieser
>> Bezeichnungen aus dem Dritten Reich.
> 
> 
> Namen, die nur im Dritten Reich verwendet wurden, sollte man natürlich nicht 
> in name:de eintragen, aber es gibt auch weit über diesen Zeitrahmen hinaus 
> viele deutsche Namen, die unter, zumindest nach heutigem Maßstab, 
> fragwürdigen bzw. “unmoralischen” Umständen in die Welt kamen, s.z.B. 
> https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanisierung in Mittelalter und Neuzeit 
> (vor 3.Reich). Englische, französische und spanische Namen sind z.B. im 
> Kontext der Kolonialisierung auch betroffen (das relativiert nicht den 
> Nationalsozialismus, sondern den deutschen Imperialismus des 19. Jh). Ob die 
> Polen vor Ort deutsche Namen verwenden oder nicht sollte uns nicht daran 
> hindern sie in name:de zu tun (wie gesagt, sofern es keine Namen aus der 
> Kriegszeit sind), evtl. auch old_name:de. 

Zudem, gerade bei OSMand, wird in der deutschen Sprachversion immer
name:de verwendet, verwirrt, das den jeweiligen User nicht nur in Polen.
Im Grunde geht es ja darum sich im Raum zurechtzufinden und da ist es mE
kontraproduktiv deutsche Namen aus der Vorkriegszeit oder noch früher zu
verwenden, die vor Ort nirgends aufscheinen, nur um da vermeintliches
Kulturgut zu bewahren.

Das Problem hat OSMand nicht nur in Polen, sondern etwa auch in anderen
Teilen Osteuropas (Ukraine, Ungarn, Rumänien), wo einige großflächig die
deutschsprachingen Bezeichnungen aus der Österr.-Ung.-Monarchie
eingepflegt haben und die dort in der Praxis wenig bis gar keine
Anwendung finden.

LG,
Stefan

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Rapprochement Bano

[Philippe Verdy]

La légende complète est sur https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:
WikiProject_France/WikiProject_Base_Adresses_Nationale_Ouverte_(BANO)

Le 25 octobre 2017 à 16:29, Philippe Verdy  a écrit :

>
>
> Le 25 octobre 2017 à 15:17, Donat ROBAUX  a écrit :
>
>> D'ailleurs c'est quoi les numéros d'adresse en violet? Tu m'avais dit que
>> c'était nouveau.
>>
>> ● nº ou lieu-dit mauve : adresse présente dans OSM mais sans
> rapprochement avec FANTOIR (différence de nom, ou adresse inexistante
> actuellement dans FANTOIR pour les toutes nouvelles rues)
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Rapprochement Bano

[Philippe Verdy]

Le 25 octobre 2017 à 15:17, Donat ROBAUX  a écrit :

> D'ailleurs c'est quoi les numéros d'adresse en violet? Tu m'avais dit que
> c'était nouveau.
>
> ● nº ou lieu-dit mauve : adresse présente dans OSM mais sans
rapprochement avec FANTOIR (différence de nom, ou adresse inexistante
actuellement dans FANTOIR pour les toutes nouvelles rues)
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Rapprochement Bano

[Vincent de Château-Thierry]

Bonjour,

> De: "Christian Quest" 
> 
> Le 25/10/2017 à 15:14, Cédric Frayssinet a écrit :
> > Bonjour,
> >
> > N'étant pas expert et ayant rejoint la communauté qu'il y a
> > quelques
> > semaines, pouvez-vous préciser le travail accompli et le travail
> > restant à faire ? Quel est l'outil utilisé ?

Cédric, pour compléter, tu as un peu de contexte ici :
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:WikiProject_France/WikiProject_Base_Adresses_Nationale_Ouverte_(BANO)

vincent

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Rapprochement Bano

[Christian Quest]

Ce fameux "rouge" on le voit par exemple ici: 
http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/~cquest/leaflet/bano.html#7/47.000/2.000


Ce sont les adresses connues de BANO mais avec un nom de voie que l'on 
n'a pas retrouvé dans OSM et que l'on peut donc ajouter pour qu'OSM soit 
plus complet sur les noms de rues. Il en reste donc environ 160 000 à 
ajouter.


Exemple (plus proche): 
http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/~cquest/leaflet/bano.html#18/48.86048/3.15177



Pour les points en violet, ce sont des adresses issues des fichiers du 
cadastre désormais en opendata. C'est un peu expérimental, mais ça peut 
être utile.




Le 25/10/2017 à 15:14, Cédric Frayssinet a écrit :

Bonjour,

N'étant pas expert et ayant rejoint la communauté qu'il y a quelques 
semaines, pouvez-vous préciser le travail accompli et le travail 
restant à faire ? Quel est l'outil utilisé ?


Merci, Cédric


--
Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France


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Re: [OSM-talk] Topology rules

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 25. Oct 2017, at 15:40, Stefan Keller  wrote:
> 
> want to point to network topology
> which is important for navigation.


+1, also: which objects should be connected to highways or not (e.g. platforms, 
piers, parkings, runways, ...)


cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Topology rules

[Stefan Keller]

Hi Tomas

Two comments on this:

1. My ceterum-censeo is, that we really need a polygon type in OSM.
This would make mapping, and many written and unwritten(!) rules much
easier (not to forget software).

2. I'd like to support Martin and want to point to network topology
which is important for navigation. I currently have a use case where
we want to enhance pedestrian routing and did not find (yet) any rules
how to connect a footway e.g. to a street (what I'm sure is that
currently the 'big' route planners only consider footways as part of
the routable network if ways share same node).

:Stefan



2017-10-25 14:19 GMT+02:00 Tomas Straupis :
> 2017-10-25 14:03 GMT+03:00 Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
>>>   For a long time I wanted to hear opinion on the topic of topology rules.
>> most important is IMHO: when do you share nodes, and when not.
>> <...>
>
>   Thank you for notes about the rules, I will think about it at least
> for local rules.
>
>   For the time being I'm more interested in general opinion on:
> „do/don't, why, how, when“ stuff.
>
>   It could really be too early for such stuff and I could probably
> continue it locally for some more time.
>
> --
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Re: [Talk-de] Deutsche Namens-Tags in Polen

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 25. Oct 2017, at 14:26, Christoph Hormann  wrote:
> 
> "Hitlerplatz", "Göringallee" und so was dürften im Allgemeinen wohl in 
> die zweite Kategorie fallen.


d.h. Du würdest das so eintragen? Auch als old_name hierzulande? Wehret den 
Anfängen. Alte Namen gibt es tendenziell viele, aus allen möglichen Epochen. 
Z.T. hat sich auch nur die Schreibweise geändert.
Sicherlich ist das auch interessant, aber in OSM passt es nicht so super, und 
die Gefahr, dass man vor lauter Bäumen den Wald nicht mehr sieht, schwingt bei 
Namen jetzt schon mit.

Von rein bürokratischen Erwägungen abgesehen finde ich, dass man als Mapper 
speziell bei den überfallenen Ländern wie Polen aus eigener Zurückhaltung für 
die Namen des Naziführungspersonals aus der Zeit der Besetzung während des 
Krieges eine Ausnahme machen kann, und diese freiwillig nicht einträgt obwohl 
man vielleicht ein “Recht” darauf hätte (weil es sind ja alte Namen, in 
gewisser Weise).

Gruß,
Martin 
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Re: [Talk-it] Pagina www.openstreetmap.org/copyright

[Volker Schmidt]

Domanda in questo contesto: nella pagina http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/
wiki/Contributors mancano fonti, come er esempio qeulli dei import veneti,
se non sbaglio.

2017-10-25 14:36 GMT+02:00 Alessandro Palmas :

> Ciao lista,
> la pagina https://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright mostra il testo nella
> lingua del browser, quindi solitamente in Italia se ne legge la versione
> italiana.
>
> Alla sezione "Nostri collaboratori" vediamo una prima lista (quella con i
> principali contributori, istituzionali direi, si trova ad un click di
> distanza su http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors) di
> contributori dei seguenti paesi: Austria, Canada, Finlandia, Francia,
> Olanda, Nuova Zelanda, Slovenia, Sud Africa, Regno Unito.
>
> Nessuna menzione ai contributori italiani, mentre in questa pagina mi
> aspetterei di vedere la lista di quelli italiani e su
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors la lista più completa dei
> vari paesi come già avviene.
>
> Capisco che la pagina probabilmente è stata tradotta diverso tempo fa ma
> mi parrebbe doveroso, se è possibile, modificarla. Che ne pensate?
>
> Alessandro Ale_Zena_IT
>
>
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Re: [Talk-de] Deutsche Namens-Tags in Polen

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 25. Oct 2017, at 13:53, SteMo  wrote:
> 
> 2. In Polen findet man, mit wenigen Ausnahmen auf historischen
> Baudenkmälern oder in Geschichtsbüchern _keine_ Verwendung dieser
> Bezeichnungen aus dem Dritten Reich.


Namen, die nur im Dritten Reich verwendet wurden, sollte man natürlich nicht in 
name:de eintragen, aber es gibt auch weit über diesen Zeitrahmen hinaus viele 
deutsche Namen, die unter, zumindest nach heutigem Maßstab, fragwürdigen bzw. 
“unmoralischen” Umständen in die Welt kamen, s.z.B. 
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanisierung in Mittelalter und Neuzeit (vor 
3.Reich). Englische, französische und spanische Namen sind z.B. im Kontext der 
Kolonialisierung auch betroffen (das relativiert nicht den Nationalsozialismus, 
sondern den deutschen Imperialismus des 19. Jh). Ob die Polen vor Ort deutsche 
Namen verwenden oder nicht sollte uns nicht daran hindern sie in name:de zu tun 
(wie gesagt, sofern es keine Namen aus der Kriegszeit sind), evtl. auch 
old_name:de. 

Gruß,
Martin 
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Rapprochement Bano

[Donat ROBAUX]

Cela dit, on peut voir sur le fond Bano de Tile OSM-FR quelques communes de
taille respectables qui ont pas mal de rouge, donc y a encore de quoi
d'amuser. D'autant plus que pas mal de communes n'ont pas de cadastre
vectorisé, c'est assez flagrant en Champagne-Ardennes et "centre-sud" de la
France, sans parler de la Corse et DOM-COM
D'ailleurs c'est quoi les numéros d'adresse en violet? Tu m'avais dit que
c'était nouveau.

Donat


> -- Message transféré --
> From: Christian Quest 
> To: talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 14:34:07 +0200
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Rapprochement Bano
>
> Les dégommeurs de rouge vont avoir de plus en plus de mal à trouver de
> quoi dégommer ;)
>
> Le 25/10/2017 à 14:28, Donat ROBAUX a écrit :
>
> Bonjour,
>
> Je viens de voir que le nombre de voies rapprochées dans le cadre de Bano
> est de 1 million et celles des voies non-rapprochées est à 160 000 et ce
> depuis le 01 octobre.
>
> Champagne!
>
> Donat
>
> PS: le million, le million, le m...
>
> --
> Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Rapprochement Bano

[Cédric Frayssinet]

Bonjour,

N'étant pas expert et ayant rejoint la communauté qu'il y a quelques
semaines, pouvez-vous préciser le travail accompli et le travail restant
à faire ? Quel est l'outil utilisé ?

Merci, Cédric


Le 25/10/2017 à 15:10, Philippe Verdy a écrit :
> Il y a encore pas mal de boulot à faire dans le Cotentin, le sud de
> l'Aquitaine autour de l'Adour ou les Charentes. On est encore loin
> d'avoir du vert (ou même du bleu) partout. Le vert est très avancé
> autour des grosses métropoles disposant de données open data les mieux
> fournies (mais bien moins avancé pour la métropole de Nice où l'orange
> prédomine encore sur le vert: données open data encore à
> importer/fusionner).
>
> Le 25 octobre 2017 à 14:34, Christian Quest  > a écrit :
>
> Les dégommeurs de rouge vont avoir de plus en plus de mal à
> trouver de quoi dégommer ;)
>
>
> Le 25/10/2017 à 14:28, Donat ROBAUX a écrit :
>> Bonjour,
>>
>> Je viens de voir que le nombre de voies rapprochées dans le cadre
>> de Bano est de 1 million et celles des voies non-rapprochées est
>> à 160 000 et ce depuis le 01 octobre.
>>
>> Champagne!
>>
>> Donat
>>
>> PS: le million, le million, le m...
>>
>
> -- 
> Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France
>
>
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>
>
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Google ! Client d'Enercoop
, l'énergie militante

Également sur Mastodon : @bristow...@framapiaf.org


Promouvoir et soutenir le logiciel libre 

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Re: [Talk-ca] Planning mapathon @ McGill in OSM Geo Week

[Pierre Béland]

Voir le site de OSM Montréal http://www.openstreetmap-montreal.org/et leur 
liste de discussion http://listes.osmqc.ca/listinfo/montreal
Leur prochaine réunion mercredi le 1er novembre.
 
Pierre 
 

Le mercredi 25 octobre 2017 05:36:03 HAE, James  a 
écrit :  
 
 I think Pierre is a good contact for the local Montreal group.
On Oct 24, 2017 11:02 PM, "Tim Elrick, Dr."  wrote:


Hello OSMappers,

 

I am Tim Elrick, heading the Geographic Information Centre at McGill. I am 
involved with organizing a mapathon at McGill in Montreal in OSM Geo Week in 
November. I am reaching out to you to find local experienced mappers to support 
us in the mapathon (I followed the discussion on talk-ca in the last couple of 
weeks).

 

It would be great if someone could get me in touch with local OSMappers? (My 
idea was to go to the next OSM event in Montreal; however, unfortunately, it 
seems too close to OSM Geo Week, to start the contacts only then.)

 

Beside the mapathon, McGill students who worked as volunteers at the last HOT 
summit are currently setting up a mapping group (OMG McGill, Open Mapping Group 
McGill). They slowly want to build up OSMapping expertise to work on HOT tasks, 
Building Canada 2020 tasks as well as adding to OSM in Montreal. The group 
would appreciate to have a contact to established OSMappers here as well.

 

Thanks a lot!

 

Best wishes,

Tim

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Rapprochement Bano

[Philippe Verdy]

Il y a encore pas mal de boulot à faire dans le Cotentin, le sud de
l'Aquitaine autour de l'Adour ou les Charentes. On est encore loin d'avoir
du vert (ou même du bleu) partout. Le vert est très avancé autour des
grosses métropoles disposant de données open data les mieux fournies (mais
bien moins avancé pour la métropole de Nice où l'orange prédomine encore
sur le vert: données open data encore à importer/fusionner).

Le 25 octobre 2017 à 14:34, Christian Quest  a
écrit :

> Les dégommeurs de rouge vont avoir de plus en plus de mal à trouver de
> quoi dégommer ;)
>
> Le 25/10/2017 à 14:28, Donat ROBAUX a écrit :
>
> Bonjour,
>
> Je viens de voir que le nombre de voies rapprochées dans le cadre de Bano
> est de 1 million et celles des voies non-rapprochées est à 160 000 et ce
> depuis le 01 octobre.
>
> Champagne!
>
> Donat
>
> PS: le million, le million, le m...
>
>
> --
> Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France
>
>
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[Talk-lt] Kartografija

[Tomas Straupis]

Sveiki

  Aptikau interneto platybėse neblogą medžiagą apie kartografiją:
  https://www.e-education.psu.edu/geog486/

  Nemažai naudingos informacijos, nors pratimai ir paremti senovinėmis
technologijomis/principais: Arc* + fiksuoto mastelio žemėlapiai (sooo
old school;-)

  Ta proga gal kas žinote kokių kitų gerų resursų apie kartografiją (ne GIS)?

  Yra mintis padaryti vektorinį Lietuvos dviračių žemėlapį (dviračių
maršrutai, takai, parduotuvės, remonto, padangų pūtimo taškai,
parkingai ir pan.). Gal kas norite įnikti į kartografiją ir
pasipraktikuoti kuriant dviračių žemėlapį (duomenis paruoštume)? Arba
gal yra koks kartografas, kuris norėtų padėti sukurti tokį dviračių
žemėlapį?

P.S. Apie GIS'ą yra gera medžiaga geoportal.lt

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Illustrer le wiki avec la BDOrtho

[Philippe Verdy]

J'ai dit qu'il fallait **demander** (aux sources appropriées). Donc pas
besoin de revendiquer un droit de citation, l'accord obtenu avec le
titulaire des droits vaut licence et droit d'usage en bonne et due forme si
les licences actuelles ne sont pas assez claires ou limitent un usage
particulier (exemple: clause non commerciale, ou utilisation limitée à
l'usage dans un éditeur utilisant un service TMS/WMS en sous-couche depuis
le serveur original non reproductible)

Le 25 octobre 2017 à 14:32, Christian Quest  a
écrit :

> Ceci n'est pas une clarification, et je ne sais pas si on est dans le
> droit de citation (qui existe) ou pas.
>
> Montrer pour une illustration un micro-pouillème de la BD Ortho ça me
> semble rester dans la simple citation.
>
> D'autres avis ?
>
> Le 25/10/2017 à 13:42, François Lacombe a écrit :
>
> Bonjour à tous,
>
> Une question qui se pose pour illustrer le wiki OSM (pas sur commons,
> uniquement l'import de fichier spécifique au Wiki OSM): Peut-on le faire
> avec les images de la BD Ortho (pourvue de la bonne mention pour identifier
> la source) ?
> Des détails peuvent être dessiné en surcouche d'une telle photo aérienne.
>
> Il y a bien se partenariat pour améliorer la carto, mais finalement ce
> n'est pas évident qu'on puisse utiliser les images pour illustrer le wiki.
>
> Je n'ai pas trouvé la réponse dans le texte de la convention, ni dans de
> précédents posts.
> Preneur d'une petite clarification si quelqu'un a les infos
>
>
> Merci par avance
>
> François
>
>
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>
>
> --
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>
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Re: [Talk-GB] pub defined as a relation

[Philip Barnes]

Certainly possible as we move to putting the tags on the outline instead of the 
building. It is not unusual to have the car park or garden area separated by a 
road.

Phil (trigpoint) 

On 24 October 2017 17:35:01 BST, Jez Nicholson  wrote:
>Just preparing an Overpass query for the OSM workshop I am running in
>Brighton. Naturally I queried pubsthen wondered whether I need
>bother
>with relationsand found
>http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/3216899
>
>Seems a bit of a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
>
>While i'm here, can anyone tell me why http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/szG
>does
>not return nodes and ways-and-their-nodes? It is very similar to the
>example
>
>area[name="Brighton and Hove"][admin_level=6];
>(
>  node(area)[amenity=pub];
>  way(area)[amenity=pub];
>);
>(._;>;);
>out body;
>
>- Jez

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Re: [Talk-it] Alberi Monumentali Provincia di Pistoia

[Alessandro Palmas]

Il 25/10/2017 14:38, Cascafico Giovanni ha scritto:

Ho aggiunto sulla umap [1] il layer "Alberi monumentali - corretto"
applicando un offset di x=-20 y=+73. A campione una dozzina di punti
sembrano corretti. Sono un centinaio di punti: devo fare tutto
l'ambaradan per l'import?

[1] http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/it/map/open-data-pistoia_174967


Meno di 100 oggetti è considerata parte non sostanziale del DB, forse si 
potrebbe evitare.


Alessandro

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Re: [Talk-it] Alberi Monumentali Provincia di Pistoia

[Cascafico Giovanni]

Ho aggiunto sulla umap [1] il layer "Alberi monumentali - corretto"
applicando un offset di x=-20 y=+73. A campione una dozzina di punti
sembrano corretti. Sono un centinaio di punti: devo fare tutto
l'ambaradan per l'import?

[1] http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/it/map/open-data-pistoia_174967

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[Talk-it] Pagina www.openstreetmap.org/copyright

[Alessandro Palmas]

Ciao lista,
la pagina https://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright mostra il testo nella 
lingua del browser, quindi solitamente in Italia se ne legge la versione 
italiana.


Alla sezione "Nostri collaboratori" vediamo una prima lista (quella con 
i principali contributori, istituzionali direi, si trova ad un click di 
distanza su http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors) di 
contributori dei seguenti paesi: Austria, Canada, Finlandia, Francia, 
Olanda, Nuova Zelanda, Slovenia, Sud Africa, Regno Unito.


Nessuna menzione ai contributori italiani, mentre in questa pagina mi 
aspetterei di vedere la lista di quelli italiani e su 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors la lista più completa 
dei vari paesi come già avviene.


Capisco che la pagina probabilmente è stata tradotta diverso tempo fa ma 
mi parrebbe doveroso, se è possibile, modificarla. Che ne pensate?


Alessandro Ale_Zena_IT


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Rapprochement Bano

[Christian Quest]

Les dégommeurs de rouge vont avoir de plus en plus de mal à trouver de 
quoi dégommer ;)



Le 25/10/2017 à 14:28, Donat ROBAUX a écrit :

Bonjour,

Je viens de voir que le nombre de voies rapprochées dans le cadre de 
Bano est de 1 million et celles des voies non-rapprochées est à 160 
000 et ce depuis le 01 octobre.


Champagne!

Donat

PS: le million, le million, le m...



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Illustrer le wiki avec la BDOrtho

[Philippe Verdy]

Si tu as un doute, tu peux toujours faire une capture limitée avec la
surcouche, et demander l'autorisation de publier cette seule image sur le
wiki ou sur Commons avec une licence appropriée à ces wikis, et la bonne
mention. Pour une image unique (ou quelques images de démonstration
destinée à la documentation de cas précis) tu devrais avoir l'agrément
facilement d'autant plus qu'il y aura la surcouche par dessus qui rend
l'image inutilisable pour autre chose que cette documentation. Ce n'est pas
comme si tu reproduisais les images originales sur de larges zones. Au pire
demande-le sur une image BDOrtho ancienne (qui n'a plus grande valeur
d'actualité) mais suffisante pour documenter le processus.

Le 25 octobre 2017 à 13:42, François Lacombe  a
écrit :

> Bonjour à tous,
>
> Une question qui se pose pour illustrer le wiki OSM (pas sur commons,
> uniquement l'import de fichier spécifique au Wiki OSM): Peut-on le faire
> avec les images de la BD Ortho (pourvue de la bonne mention pour identifier
> la source) ?
> Des détails peuvent être dessiné en surcouche d'une telle photo aérienne.
>
> Il y a bien se partenariat pour améliorer la carto, mais finalement ce
> n'est pas évident qu'on puisse utiliser les images pour illustrer le wiki.
>
> Je n'ai pas trouvé la réponse dans le texte de la convention, ni dans de
> précédents posts.
> Preneur d'une petite clarification si quelqu'un a les infos
>
>
> Merci par avance
>
> François
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Illustrer le wiki avec la BDOrtho

[Christian Quest]

Ceci n'est pas une clarification, et je ne sais pas si on est dans le 
droit de citation (qui existe) ou pas.


Montrer pour une illustration un micro-pouillème de la BD Ortho ça me 
semble rester dans la simple citation.


D'autres avis ?


Le 25/10/2017 à 13:42, François Lacombe a écrit :

Bonjour à tous,

Une question qui se pose pour illustrer le wiki OSM (pas sur commons, 
uniquement l'import de fichier spécifique au Wiki OSM): Peut-on le 
faire avec les images de la BD Ortho (pourvue de la bonne mention pour 
identifier la source) ?

Des détails peuvent être dessiné en surcouche d'une telle photo aérienne.

Il y a bien se partenariat pour améliorer la carto, mais finalement ce 
n'est pas évident qu'on puisse utiliser les images pour illustrer le wiki.


Je n'ai pas trouvé la réponse dans le texte de la convention, ni dans 
de précédents posts.

Preneur d'une petite clarification si quelqu'un a les infos


Merci par avance

François


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[OSM-talk-fr] Rapprochement Bano

[Donat ROBAUX]

Bonjour,

Je viens de voir que le nombre de voies rapprochées dans le cadre de Bano
est de 1 million et celles des voies non-rapprochées est à 160 000 et ce
depuis le 01 octobre.

Champagne!

Donat

PS: le million, le million, le m...
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Re: [Talk-de] Deutsche Namens-Tags in Polen

[Christoph Hormann]

On Wednesday 25 October 2017, SteMo wrote:
>
> Ich bin häufiger in Polen unterwegs und nutze sehr gerne OsmAnd.
> Allerdings hat OsmAnd einen Anzeige-Bug über die Zoomstufen. Dieser
> Bug läßt mich aber immer wieder über eine sehr unschöne Sache
> stolpern, die mir z.T. ganz übel aufstößt. Zur Vorgeschichte: Ich
> habe vor einigen Jahren in der Stadt Piła einige
> Nationalsozialistische
> Namensbezeichnungen (a la "Hitlerplatz", "Göringallee", etc.)
> angemahnt bzw. kritisiert. Nun stelle ich wieder immer stärker die
> belegung von polnischen Ortschaften im Deutschen durch Namen aus der
> Zeit des dritten Reiches. [...]

Zur Klarstellung: erhebliche Teile Polens haben eine sehr lange 
deutschsprachige Geschichte und nur ein sehr kleiner Teil der 
deutschsprachigen Namen in diesen Gebieten ist in der 
nationalsozialistischen Zeit entstanden.

Abgesehen davon dachte ich eigentlich, dass das Thema mittlerweile 
weitgehend unideologisch gelöst ist in der Form:

* Deutsche Namen, die noch heute im praktischen gegenwartsbezogenen 
Gebrauch sind, gehen in name:de.
* Deutsche Namen, die historisch praktische Verwendung fanden, heute, 
jedoch meist nicht mehr außerhalb historischer Betrachtungen verwendet 
werden, gehen in old_name:de.

"Hitlerplatz", "Göringallee" und so was dürften im Allgemeinen wohl in 
die zweite Kategorie fallen.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [OSM-talk] Topology rules

[Tomas Straupis]

2017-10-25 14:03 GMT+03:00 Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
>>   For a long time I wanted to hear opinion on the topic of topology rules.
> most important is IMHO: when do you share nodes, and when not.
> <...>

  Thank you for notes about the rules, I will think about it at least
for local rules.

  For the time being I'm more interested in general opinion on:
„do/don't, why, how, when“ stuff.

  It could really be too early for such stuff and I could probably
continue it locally for some more time.

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Lester Caine]

On 25/10/17 12:42, Andy Mabbett wrote:
 wikidata objects often don't say what they are about
 (besides the name), they are just a bunch of links to wikipedia articles
 in different languages
>>> Once again, please stop making things up.
>> I was replying to "A Wikidata tag is just as verifiable as Wikipedia tag"
> Whatever you were replying to, the claim you made was - not for the
> first time - false, as others have demonstrated.

I'm with Martin on this one!
As others have demonstrated, there are a number of holes in the way
wikidata works which may be fixed over time, but 'just' using a wikidata
reference is not 100% reliable.

What *IS* nice is the fact that having looked up a wikidata reference,
there may be further links to a number of data sources from which the
data was downloaded but that may NOT currently include wikipedia pages
that are useful to provide background information on object in question.

It would be nice to follow a similar pattern when using any third party
ID. One currently being worked on in the UK is the 'fhrs' database, and
these references are being added to the identified establishments. BUT
it would be nice is these were tagged ref:fhrs in the same way as
ref:edubase was populated previously, and a link to the reinvent data
can be created automatically. ref:wikidata should follow the same
pattern where an object is a one to one match for the referenced page,
but wikipedia tag should be allowed where the referenced page contains
general information about the object ... as in the case of a link to an
artist where the object is a sculpture. Until the wikidata id actually
identifies the sculpture there should not be a wikidata entry.

What is currently missing is a clean set of guidelines for using any
third party reference?

-- 
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk

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[Talk-de] Deutsche Namens-Tags in Polen

[SteMo]

Hi,

mal eine Frage zu den Deutschen Namen/Bezeichnungen in Polen:

Ich bin häufiger in Polen unterwegs und nutze sehr gerne OsmAnd.
Allerdings hat OsmAnd einen Anzeige-Bug über die Zoomstufen. Dieser Bug
läßt mich aber immer wieder über eine sehr unschöne Sache stolpern, die
mir z.T. ganz übel aufstößt. Zur Vorgeschichte: Ich habe vor einigen
Jahren in der Stadt Piła einige Nationalsozialistische
Namensbezeichnungen (a la "Hitlerplatz", "Göringallee", etc.) angemahnt
bzw. kritisiert. Nun stelle ich wieder immer stärker die belegung von
polnischen Ortschaften im Deutschen durch Namen aus der Zeit des dritten
Reiches. Das finde ich aus zumindest zwei Gründen komplett unangebracht:

1. Wir Deutsche sollten uns in keiner Weise anmaßen Bezeichnungen
verwenden zu wollen/müssen, die historisch zweifelhaft sind und auch
nicht einmal mehr in unserem allg. Sprachgebrauch Verwendung finden.

2. In Polen findet man, mit wenigen Ausnahmen auf historischen
Baudenkmälern oder in Geschichtsbüchern _keine_ Verwendung dieser
Bezeichnungen aus dem Dritten Reich.

Mal ganz abgesehen, daß sich kein Mensch mit diesen Bezeichnung in Polen
zurechtfinden wird, da sie keinerlei Verwendung, weder auf Schildern,
noch Ortskarten finden.
Es gibt einen History-Tag. In diesem kann das doch gerne verwendet
werden, aber doch bitte nicht in z.B. "name_de".

Mir als deutschen ist es regelrecht peinlich, wenn mir mal ein Polen
über die Schultern schaut und mich mit einem sehr unverständlich bösen
Blick fragt, woher diese Namen kommen... :/


Wie steht Ihr dazu?


Viele Grüße
Stefan


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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Andy Mabbett]

On 25 October 2017 at 11:33, Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote:

> 2017-10-25 11:49 GMT+02:00 Andy Mabbett :
>>
>> On 25 October 2017 at 10:06, Martin Koppenhoefer 
>> wrote:

>> > wikidata objects often don't say what they are about
>> > (besides the name), they are just a bunch of links to wikipedia articles
>> > in different languages
>>
>> Once again, please stop making things up.

> I was replying to "A Wikidata tag is just as verifiable as Wikipedia tag"

Whatever you were replying to, the claim you made was - not for the
first time - false, as others have demonstrated.

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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[OSM-talk-fr] Illustrer le wiki avec la BDOrtho

[François Lacombe]

Bonjour à tous,

Une question qui se pose pour illustrer le wiki OSM (pas sur commons,
uniquement l'import de fichier spécifique au Wiki OSM): Peut-on le faire
avec les images de la BD Ortho (pourvue de la bonne mention pour identifier
la source) ?
Des détails peuvent être dessiné en surcouche d'une telle photo aérienne.

Il y a bien se partenariat pour améliorer la carto, mais finalement ce
n'est pas évident qu'on puisse utiliser les images pour illustrer le wiki.

Je n'ai pas trouvé la réponse dans le texte de la convention, ni dans de
précédents posts.
Preneur d'une petite clarification si quelqu'un a les infos


Merci par avance

François
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Re: [Talk-it] rendering highway=via_ferrata.

[matteocalosi]

Openandromaps fa lo stesso render per highway=via_ferrata e highway=path +
via_ferrata=yes, non so se altri render facciano vedere highway=via_ferrata
ma personalmente è quello che uso.


liste DOT girarsi AT posteo DOT eu wrote
> Mi è stato fatto notare oggi da un utente, cosa a cui non ho mai fatto 
> caso, ho sempre messo questo tag nelle poche way incontrate, e mappate, 
> però su Josm ho sempre visto una way grigia, non renderizzata o con 
> simbologie sue, ma non mi sono mai posto il problema, anche se non lo è.
> 
> Per cui chiedo, anche se questo tag è molto usato, nonostante, se non 
> sbaglio, sia ancora in proposed, si sà qualcosa se verrà renderizzato o 
> meno sulla mappa?
> 
> Altrimenti sembra di vedere way troncate.
> 
> 
> -- 
> _|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_
> |_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
> Simone Girardelli
> 
> 
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--
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Re: [Talk-it] Attività con più tipologie

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2017-10-25 13:07 GMT+02:00 Andreas Lattmann :

> Grazie Martin!
> Sei riuscito a risolvere i mille dubbi che mi erano venuti.



be, ho elencato soltanto le alternative, ma non vuol dire che vanno sempre
tutti bene ;-)

Per posti dove si mangia io al solito aggiungo (anche) un tag
restaurant:type:it= e metto come valori una lista dei servizi in italiano,
per esempio gelateria;tavola_calda;pasticceria;ristorante;bar 

Ciao,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-it] Attività con più tipologie

[Andreas Lattmann]

Grazie Martin!
Sei riuscito a risolvere i mille dubbi che mi erano venuti.
Grazie ancora.

Andreas Lattmann
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Re: [OSM-talk] Topology rules

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2017-10-25 11:50 GMT+02:00 Tomas Straupis :

> Hello
>
>   For a long time I wanted to hear opinion on the topic of topology rules.
>
>   By "topology rules" here I mean just simple rules such as:
>   * polygon X should not overlap polygon Y
>   * polygon X should always be above polygon Y
>   * point X should be not further from line Y than D
>   etc.
>



most important is IMHO: when do you share nodes, and when not.


1. E.g. political boundaries usually should reuse the same border ways (=no
gap between entities).

Other examples:

2. Buildings.
If 2 buildings share a wall or are constructed one aside the other (double
wall), you should have them connected in OSM as well.

If a square is delimited by buildings, the place=square object should share
ways with the buildings.
etc.

Some mappers tend to map these things very close but distinct, which IMHO
is a topology error.
The rule I want to see: map in a way that it represents reality nicely.

3. Roads and areas:
Some mappers connect "incompatible" object types (centre lines of roads and
areas). The areas should end at their border and not be extended.

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-GB] pub defined as a relation

[Roland Olbricht]

While i'm here, can anyone tell me why 
http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/szG does not return nodes and 
ways-and-their-nodes? It is very similar to the example


Thank you for asking. As I will explain below, this is an opportunity to 
improve the documentation.



area[name="Brighton and Hove"][admin_level=6];
(
   node(area)[amenity=pub];
   way(area)[amenity=pub];
);
(._;>;);
out body;


In line 3 we have only nodes as a result. In line 4, we ask for ways 
that are inside the areas from the previous result (the one from line 
3). Thus, line 4 can never have a result.


Hence, please change it to

area[name="Brighton and Hove"][admin_level=6]->.a;
(
   node(area.a)[amenity=pub];
   way(area.a)[amenity=pub];
);
(._;>;);
out body;

This way, we store the result of line 1 in a set named "a". And in lines 
3 and 4 we now ask for nodes resp. ways that are in areas from "a". "a" 
could be an arbitrary name (composed of letters, digits, and 
underscores, starting with a letter; names are case sesitive).


By the way, I suggest to replace lines 5 and 6:

area[name="Brighton and Hove"][admin_level=6]->.a;
(
   node(area.a)[amenity=pub];
   way(area.a)[amenity=pub];
);
out center;

This makes both nodes and ways into a point with a single location. For 
the purpose of viewing the objects in Overpass Turbo, this means you 
need to transfer and process fewer data.


I thought there were an explanation at
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Overpass_API/Overpass_API_by_Example
but it isn't. I will add the example and the explanation there.

For the question whether it was different before: No. I am a strong 
proponent of backwards compatibility. It will rarely or never happen 
that I change existing language semantics.


- Roland

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Re: [Talk-it] Attività con più tipologie

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2017-10-25 12:48 GMT+02:00 Andreas Lattmann :

> Scusate, di sicuro è già stato chiesto: come mappate un attività che
> svolge più tipologie di lavoro? Su nodi diversi (se non si conosce l'area)?
> Perché mi sono capitati bar/pasticceria/edicola nello stesso locale con
> stesso operator (ti servono caffè, giornale e pasticcino ).



gli approcci sono diversi:

* combinare più "main" tag su un'oggetto (farei soltanto quando si può fare
senza multivalori -> chiavi diversi)

* mettere un "main tag" e creare delle proprietà (per esempio:
sells_tobacco)

* mettere più oggetti "vicini" o sovraposti (o multipoligoni)

* creare un nuovo main tag per l'oggetto combinato

cosa scegliere dipende dal caso, dalla preferenza personale, ecc

Ciao,
Martin
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[Talk-it] Manutentori attrezzature antincendio

[Andreas Lattmann]

Buongiorno, che tag si usano per mappare i manutentori di attrezzature 
antincendio?
Di solito vendono le attrezzature antincendio (estintori, manichette, porte REI 
ec. ) e ne fanno manutenzione, i dispositivi di protezione (e ne fanno 
manutenzione) e la segnaletica di sicurezza.
Non ho trovato dei tag adeguati, o meglio, non li ho trovati.
Grazie.

Andreas Lattmann
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Re: [Talk-de] Entwicklungsumgebung für Kartenstil

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

Das OSM Carto repository hat auch eine Anleitung dazu:
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/master/README.md
Und auch im Wiki und hier:
https://switch2osm.org/

Gruß,
Martin
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[Talk-it] Attività con più tipologie

[Andreas Lattmann]

Scusate, di sicuro è già stato chiesto: come mappate un attività che svolge più 
tipologie di lavoro? Su nodi diversi (se non si conosce l'area)? Perché mi sono 
capitati bar/pasticceria/edicola nello stesso locale con stesso operator (ti 
servono caffè, giornale e pasticcino ). 
Grazie. 
Andreas Lattmann
-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2017-10-25 11:49 GMT+02:00 Andy Mabbett :

> On 25 October 2017 at 10:06, Martin Koppenhoefer 
> wrote:
> > 2017-10-25 9:27 GMT+02:00 Safwat Halaby :
>
> > wikidata objects often don't say what they are about
> > (besides the name), they are just a bunch of links to wikipedia articles
> in
> > different languages
>
> Once again, please stop making things up.
>
>
>

I was replying to "A Wikidata tag is just as verifiable as Wikipedia tag",
and that's not true, there are significant differences which don't make the
two interchangeable.

Here's an example for major confusion:
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1368377
(e.g. English and Italian version describe different "things", wikidata
describes a "mixture").
there are also
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q3734793
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q3734597

and maybe more...

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-de] Entwicklungsumgebung für Kartenstil

[Robert k]

Hallo,

Herzlich Willkommen,

Als erste Maßnahme muss du dir im klaren sein, auf welcher
Entwicklungsumgebung wie Ubuntu, Mac oder Windows entwickeln willst.

Editoren gibt es noch mapbox-classic (weiterentwicklung von TillMill),
tTllmill, kosmtik und magnacarto.


Zu Ubuntu findest du viele Skripte bzw. Hilfestellung. Ab Ubuntu 16.04
wird TillMill nicht mehr official unterstützt und müsstest dir hier ein
TillMill selbst compilieren.

Eine aktuelle Anleitung kannst du hier finden:

https://ircama.github.io/osm-carto-tutorials/

oder

https://ircama.github.io/osm-carto-tutorials/tilemill-ubuntu/


natürlich gibt es auch andere Anleitungen und Seiten.


Ich benutze aktuell ein Ubuntu 16.04 LTS, wo ich die OSM-Daten nach dem
OSM-Lyrk-MapStyle, die Abhängigkeiten mit dem OSM-Bright-CartoCss
besitzt, mit dem OSM-Importer Imposm3 importiere. Den Lyrk-Style passe
ich mit Tilemill an und exportiere mir das Mapnik XML mit magnacarto.
Das XML wird dann vom renderer gelesen und liefert die PNG aus.

https://github.com/omniscale/magnacarto

https://github.com/lyrk/lyrk-mapstyle

Viele Grüße
Robert

Am 25.10.2017 um 11:34 schrieb dktue:
> Hallo,
>
> ich möchte gerne einen eigenen Karten-Stil mit Carto entwickeln.
>
> Hat jemand einen Tipp, wie man eine gute Entwicklungsumgebung schafft,
> sodass man möglichst schnell iterieren und ausprobieren kann, während
> man entwickelt? Früher gab es ja Tile-Mill, aber wie entwickelt man
> heute?
>
> Gruß
> dktue
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Marc Gemis]

Please tell me where the wikipedia link is in e.g.
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q37344570  :-)
Wikidata does not have to be a bunch of links to wikipedia articles.
It has references to 2 external DBs (ODIS & Onroerend erfgoed), so it
should be considered notable.

I have no  idea how many bad items there are in Wikidata, just as I
don't know how many bad nodes there are in OSM (e.g. just a name tag).
Do we have to throw OSM through the window just because I can find
some nodes with just a name tag ?
So why do we do this with another project ?


m.



On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 11:06 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer
 wrote:
> 2017-10-25 9:27 GMT+02:00 Safwat Halaby :
>>
>>
>> A Wikidata tag is just as verifiable as Wikipedia tag: Both require
>> visiting an external site. Y
>
>
>
> no, because wikipedia articles describe what they are about (or get deleted
> for lack of substance), wikidata objects often don't say what they are about
> (besides the name), they are just a bunch of links to wikipedia articles in
> different languages and not too rarely with different content (you have to
> decide which linked wikipedia article in which language defines the object).
>
> Cheers,
> Martin
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 25. Oct 2017, at 08:43, Frederik Ramm  wrote:
> 
> Well, certainly Wikipedia links should only be added by people who know
> something about the feature in question, and not by a machine that
> compares name tags to Wikipedia entries and takes a wild guess.


To illustrate this: we just had a case on the Italian mailing list where an 
armchair mapper has changed the wikidata link on a highway to a person after 
which the street is named from wikidata to wikidata:etymology . But he missed 
the fact that the street was named after a partisan fighter, not an actress 
with the same name (for whom was the wikidata object). 

cheers,
Martin 
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[OSM-talk] Topology rules

[Tomas Straupis]

Hello

  For a long time I wanted to hear opinion on the topic of topology rules.

  By "topology rules" here I mean just simple rules such as:
  * polygon X should not overlap polygon Y
  * polygon X should always be above polygon Y
  * point X should be not further from line Y than D
  etc.

  There are no such rules in OSM (or I have not found them). I do not
see them being mandatory in the nearest future for various reasons.
But having them described somewhere would add some benefits (or so I
think). For example:

  * it would introduce general agreement which in theory should make
it easier for people to understand how polygons should be mapped. Do
we use type X or type Y - depending on what is or isn't below/above.

  * some errors could be found (say addr:street should be not further
than 5km from a way with the name tag having exactly the same name).

  * it would be easier for cartographers or the like. They would not
have to guess which polygons should be above which ones in drawing
order, for example when creating garmin maps it is not always possible
to control the order of layers, so we have a question which goes
first: forest or water? People often report problems that water or
island is not visible and the problem is usually because of incorrect
objects in OSM: multipolygon not created so the same area is actually
covered by both water and landuse polygons. (Garmin maps is not the
only area with such a problem, this is just an example)

  * general resulting/exported "GIS" datasets (shapes, geodatabases
etc.) would be more "correct" in GIS sense.

  * different "area calculations" would be more correct. Say we want
to calculate area in a region covered by land, water, farmland etc. As
it stands now we could get a total area larger than area of a region
in question.

  This has been tested in Lithuania for years now and looks fine. We
do not introduce questionable rules, just obvious ones: no overlap
between forest, water, wetland, meadow, residential, industrial,
commercial etc. wood only above residential/commercial/industrial. The
last one gives advantage that for large scales we can ignore wood
objects as they represent detail as compared to forests which
represent large scale stuff. Note this is just an example, I'm not
saying this must be the global standard.

  The process could be:
  1. We introduce VERY simple rules which are mostly a de facto
standard anyway: no overlap between forest and water, addr:street is
"near" the street, building must not overlap other building.
  2. Check, fix, look for objections/problems.
  3. Fix/adjust existing rules.
  4. Go to step 1.

  What do you think in general?

P.S. Some of these rules are already implemented as QA rules in say
osmose, just not described as "topology rules".

-- 
Tomas

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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Andy Mabbett]

On 25 October 2017 at 10:06, Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote:
> 2017-10-25 9:27 GMT+02:00 Safwat Halaby :

> wikidata objects often don't say what they are about
> (besides the name), they are just a bunch of links to wikipedia articles in
> different languages

Once again, please stop making things up.

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
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[Talk-GB] fixme:addr* tags from FHRS comparison tool

[Gregrs]

Dear all,

The FHRS comparison tool (http://gregrs.dev.openstreetmap.org/fhrs/) 
adds fixme:addr1, fixme:addr2, etc. tags when a user clicks 'Add tags in 
JOSM' because it can't (yet?) figure out which parts of the address 
should go into which addr: tag. The idea is that mappers should make 
this decision and copy the relevant part of each address into 
addr:housenumber, addr:street, addr:city, etc. However, it's easy to 
forget to do this occasionally.


If you think you might have forgotten to change some fixme:addr tags or 
if you are adding addresses for the Quarterly Project, I would encourage 
you to look out for these tags and fix them where possible. It's easy to 
find them using the new Overpass Turbo download function in JOSM; simply 
enter the following into the Query Wizard:


"fixme:addr1"=* or "fixme:addr2"=* or "fixme:addr3"=* or "fixme:addr4"=*

You can then use a filter to remove any nodes/ways that you have already 
fixed using the following pattern:


"fixme:addr2" OR "fixme:addr1" OR "fixme:addr3" OR "fixme:addr4"

Thanks,
Greg

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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Stefano]

2017-10-25 11:06 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer :

> 2017-10-25 9:27 GMT+02:00 Safwat Halaby :
>
>>
>> A Wikidata tag is just as verifiable as Wikipedia tag: Both require
>> visiting an external site. Y
>
>
>
> no, because wikipedia articles describe what they are about (or get
> deleted for lack of substance), wikidata objects often don't say what they
> are about (besides the name), they are just a bunch of links to wikipedia
> articles in different languages and not too rarely with different content
> (you have to decide which linked wikipedia article in which language
> defines the object).
>
> Nice argument!
https://xkcd.com/285/

Example
https://tools.wmflabs.org/reasonator/?=60


> Cheers,
> Martin
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Planning mapathon @ McGill in OSM Geo Week

[James]

I think Pierre is a good contact for the local Montreal group.

On Oct 24, 2017 11:02 PM, "Tim Elrick, Dr."  wrote:

> Hello OSMappers,
>
>
>
> I am Tim Elrick, heading the Geographic Information Centre at McGill. I am
> involved with organizing a mapathon at McGill in Montreal in OSM Geo Week
> in November. I am reaching out to you to find local experienced mappers to
> support us in the mapathon (I followed the discussion on talk-ca in the
> last couple of weeks).
>
>
>
> It would be great if someone could get me in touch with local OSMappers?
> (My idea was to go to the next OSM event in Montreal; however,
> unfortunately, it seems too close to OSM Geo Week, to start the contacts
> only then.)
>
>
>
> Beside the mapathon, McGill students who worked as volunteers at the last
> HOT summit are currently setting up a mapping group (OMG McGill, Open
> Mapping Group McGill). They slowly want to build up OSMapping expertise to
> work on HOT tasks, Building Canada 2020 tasks as well as adding to OSM in
> Montreal. The group would appreciate to have a contact to established
> OSMappers here as well.
>
>
>
> Thanks a lot!
>
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Tim
>
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[Talk-de] Entwicklungsumgebung für Kartenstil

[dktue]

Hallo,

ich möchte gerne einen eigenen Karten-Stil mit Carto entwickeln.

Hat jemand einen Tipp, wie man eine gute Entwicklungsumgebung schafft, 
sodass man möglichst schnell iterieren und ausprobieren kann, während 
man entwickelt? Früher gab es ja Tile-Mill, aber wie entwickelt man heute?


Gruß
dktue

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Re: [OSM-talk] Misrepresentation of OSM by HOT?

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2017-10-24 14:47 GMT+02:00 Christoph Hormann :

>  The likeliness of a Communist and an Ultra-conservative having
> a friendly and open chat about something like philosophy, science or
> art is much higher if they are Europeans.



that's likely because there are more ultra conservative communists in
Europe ;-)

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] Welcome_to_OpenStreetMap_users ?

[Daniel Koć]

W dniu 25.10.2017 o 07:42, Maarten Deen pisze:

On 2017-10-25 07:31, Daniel Koć wrote:

W dniu 25.10.2017 o 07:08, Roland Olbricht pisze:
See 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Welcome_to_Wikipedia_users#Original_research_always_wins


Why is this page named "Welcome_to_Wikipedia_users"? Can we just move
it to "Welcome_to_OpenStreetMap_users" or there are some not obvious
problems with that?


You have to read it as "a welcome to wikipedia users", a greeting that 
is extended from the OSM community.


This makes sense, thanks!

--
"My method is uncertain/ It's a mess but it's working" [F. Apple]


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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2017-10-25 9:27 GMT+02:00 Safwat Halaby :

>
> A Wikidata tag is just as verifiable as Wikipedia tag: Both require
> visiting an external site. Y



no, because wikipedia articles describe what they are about (or get deleted
for lack of substance), wikidata objects often don't say what they are
about (besides the name), they are just a bunch of links to wikipedia
articles in different languages and not too rarely with different content
(you have to decide which linked wikipedia article in which language
defines the object).

Cheers,
Martin
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[OSM-ja] osm.orgの地図表示不具合について

[Satoshi IIDA]

いいだです。

10月25日17:30現在、osm.orgのキャッシュサーバにて不具合がある可能性があり、
現在調査と対応が行われています。

ついては、しばらくの間、osm.orgの地図表示ができなかったり、
不安定になったりします。
ご不便をおかけして申し訳ありませんが、対応までしばらくお待ちください。

よろしくお願いします。


-- 
Satoshi IIDA
mail: nyamp...@gmail.com
twitter: @nyampire
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Re: [OSM-talk] Could we just pause any wikidata edits for a month or two?

[Златовратский Павел]

25.10.2017 9:43, Frederik Ramm пишет:
"Half a good edit" is not good enough though. 
When we talking about single edit "half-good" is not good. But process 
of semi-automated and automated wikitags fix could be easily separated 
in many independent edits even within single changeset(change of 
wikitags for one object does not depend of changing wikitags for other). 
And even when some of these edits is bad while most of edits is good 
whole concept seems good too.


I don't research situation about (semi)automated wikidata fix deeply. I 
just find out that number of arguments against it are same that used 
against whole amateur cartography concept.

Well, certainly Wikipedia links should only be added by people who know
something about the feature in question, and not by a machine that
compares name tags to Wikipedia entries and takes a wild guess.
No-no... I'm not talking about generating wikitags by matching. Just 
oppose: I mean we should use separate wikitags, but managing these tags 
require more understanding of Wikipedia than just local knowledge.  And 
_*if *_we focus on local knowledge as major and only source for any tags 
_*then*_ we should forbid wikitags as they could not be supported with 
just local knowledge.


And I really doubt that intentionally link to redirection page instead 
of true page as Tomas Strapius do here: 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1717783246/history is good idea in 
Wikipedia-way.


--
С уважением, Златовратский Павел.

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Re: [Talk-it] Fwd: State of the Map US conference short recap

[Alessandro]

Il 24/10/2017 20:02, Federico Leva (Nemo) ha scritto:

Notevole. :)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/openstreetmapus/37129919014
https://www.flickr.com/photos/openstreetmapus/24053685378

Federico



In Italia potrebbe essere più o meno così (con ma salumi e formaggi 
certamente più buoni :-) ).


Iscrivetevi numerosi a FOSS4G-it2018.
Per la giornata OSM anzichè dedicarla solamente al mapping party stiamo 
pensando a qualche cosa prettamente OSM, potrebbe essere qualche 
discussione su wiki, tag e razionalizzazione dei vari strumenti che 
abbiamo sparsi.


Alessandro Ale_Zena_IT


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Re: [Talk-es] Áreas de protección de monumentos

[Javier Sánchez Portero]

Te puede interesar además

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ES:Bienes_de_Inter%C3%A9s_Cultural_en_Canarias
http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/sAn

El 24 de octubre de 2017, 20:10, Iván Hernández Cazorla <
ivanher...@gmail.com> escribió:

> Gracias por ambos ejemplos Javier, bastante útiles para tener claro lo que
> comentas ―y ambos de Canarias, por lo que me manejo mejor al conocerlos―.
> Entiendo que la idea, tal y como leí en una página de la wiki, es no
> complicar las relaciones más de lo que ya son. Ni tampoco añadirles
> elementos que no tienen la necesidad de estar dentro de esta.
>
> Me apunto las etiquetas protection_title y protection_title:category a mi
> lista de necesarias. La de ref:bic ya la tenía en cuenta.
>
> Una vez más, Javier, gracias por tu explicación. La tendré en cuenta y, en
> cuanto tenga un hueco, realizaré un esquema con todo ello para que no se me
> olvide nada.
>
> Saludos, Iván
>
> On 24/10/17 08:53, Javier Sánchez Portero wrote:
>
> Sería de esa forma pero no es imprescindible que lo hagas con una
> relación. Si es un área relativamente pequeña puedes hacerlo simplemente
> con una vía cerrada. Si es un área más compleja y/o quieres aprovechar vías
> ya existentes, puedes hacerlo con una relación. En ese caso no te olvides
> de la etiqueta type=boundary y no es necesario que pongas la etiqueta
> area=yes. Aquí tienes un ejemplo usando una vía y una relación:
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/249934990
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2621556
>
> Los miembros de la relación deben ser las líneas que conforman el límite
> del área de protección con el papel outer. Los elementos protegidos en si
> mismos (edificios, los pozos de nieve del caso anterior) no es necesario
> que formen parte de la relación. Tanto la frontera del área de protección
> como los elementos protegidos deben llevar las etiquetas
>
> ref:bic=*
> protection_title=Bien de Interés Cultural
> protection_title:category=*
>
> El 21 de octubre de 2017, 15:39, Iván Hernández Cazorla <
> ivanher...@gmail.com> escribió:
>
>> ¡Vaya! Que extraño... Reviso el correo electrónico todos los días y
>> juraría que no recibí esos correos. Algo tuvo que ocurrir, quizás se fueron
>> a la carpeta de spam. Aunque no suele pasarme con los correos de las
>> listas, ni me ha pasado con Talk-es, a excepción de este mismo caso.
>>
>> Gracias a ambos Jesús por contestar a mi duda tan rápido, a pesar de que
>> no haya visto las respuestas hasta ahora. Y a ti Jesús López por
>> notificarme que me ya me habían respondido y por pasarme las respuestas de
>> nuevo. La próxima vez que pase tanto tiempo «sin respuesta» a un mensaje de
>> la lista me paso por el archivo y así me ahorro mensajes como el anterior.
>> Entiendo entonces que lo correcto sería etiquetar el área de protección
>> con este conjunto:
>>
>> boundary=protected_area
>> protect_class=22
>> area=yes
>>
>> Utilizando «22» en protect_class, dado que esta hace referencia a
>> «protection of sites with special architecture or historic interest,
>> designed and created intentionally by people».
>>
>> Aún no he manipulado mucho las relaciones, así que ahí va otra
>> pregunta.Entiendo que esas etiquetas deberían ir en una relación que
>> constituiría el área de protección del monumento y dentro de esta, se
>> mapearían los elementos de dentro y fuera del BIC con puntos y vías. ¿Sería
>> correcto mapearlo así?
>>
>> Relación - Área de protección (AP)
>> >> Puntos y vías dentro del AP, pero fuera del BIC en sí mismo.
>> >> Área del BIC.
>> >> >> Mapeado de todo lo correspondiente dentro de ese área.
>>
>> Una vez más, muchas gracias a ambos.
>>
>> Saludos, Iván
>>
>>
>> On 21/10/17 15:18, Jesús Lopez wrote:
>>
>> Buenas de nuevo Iván. Debes tener algún problema con el correo de la
>> lista. Ese mismo día te contesté:
>>
>> Hola Iván.
>>
>> Sí, es posible. Yo para esos casos suelo usar estas dos etiquetas:
>>
>> • boundary=protected_area
>> • area=yes
>>
>> En esta página del wiki [1] lo tienes mejor explicado todo lo relacionado
>> con los monumentos.
>>
>> Un saludo.
>> Jesús
>>
>> [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ES:Key:ref:bic
>>
>>
>>
>> Y también lo hizo Jesús Gómez Fernández:
>>
>> Iván echa un vistazo a la clave heritage[1] y si puedes utiliza también
>> la combinación de etiquetas
>>
>> boundary=protected_area
>> protect_class=xx
>>
>> Como comenté por la lista hace unos meses, el esquema protect_class es
>> bastante más preciso para definir áreas de protección de cualquier tipo y
>> está adaptado a las particularidades de cada país. [2]
>>
>> Un saludo.
>> Jesús Gómez
>>
>>
>> [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:heritage
>> [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:boundary%3Dprotec
>> ted_area#Classification
>>
>>
>>
>> Esperemos que hoy si recibas las respuestas :)
>>
>> Un saludo.
>> Jesús López
>>
>> El 21 oct 2017, a las 16:00, Iván Hernández Cazorla 
>> escribió:
>>
>> Buenas,
>>
>> Envié este correo