Re: [abcusers] Complex Chords in ABC
And what exactly does it mean to you? (Faced with this, Muse would currently just interpret the chord up to the first thing outside its limited syntax, so E/A is played as E, D/A is played as D). Laurie - Original Message - From: Mike Whitaker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2002 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [abcusers] Complex Chords in ABC C/D is actually Dsus7(9) without 5th, but D/C is actually D7 with the 7th in the bass I don't think it would make any sense to try to get player programs to understand slash-chords, but I don't think they should be forbidden. Band In A Box only plays a single note in the bass and the simple chord in the right hand when stuff like this happens. That's probably the best way for player programs to treat this, anyways. And I quote: Membership in the chord cabal should be voluntary, but anyone who ever says Who needs it? should be summarily evicted. *grin* I need this. Exactly as notated. A chord sequence written A E/A D/A A means something very clear to me *exactly* as written. -- Mike Whitaker| Work: +44 1733 766619 | Work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] System Architect | Fax: +44 1733 348287 | Home: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CricInfo Ltd | GSM: +44 7971 977375 | Web: http://www.cricinfo.com/ To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Complex Chords in ABC
Did I miss it as it flew by or are you going to tell us what the proposed standard (or STANDARD) meaning for D/A etc. should be? My own guess is that D/A means any combination of the notes D F# and A in any octaves, so long as it contains at least one of each note and the lowest note of all of them is an A in some octave. For instance on a guitar in standard tuning I might play D/A as (fret numbers from bass to treble) X 0 0 2 3 2 giving notes something like A,, D, A, D ^F (yes, I know, the guitar is a transposing instrument and, shame!! ABC doesn't support transposing instruments. Argue amongst yourselves as to which octave the notes really are) but equally well I could play 5 5 7 7 7 X giving the same set of notes but a different sound or X 0 7 7 7 X giving A,, A, D ^F I suspect that an accordionist would simply press the button that gave a D major chord without too much regard to what notes it really generated and simultaneously press an single note bass A button. I suspect a melodionist would just do their best somehow. A more interesting guitar example is E7/E which could be any of (frets again) at least 0 2 0 1 0 0 (easy but boring) 0 2 2 1 3 0 (better) 0 7 6 7 0 0 (nice!) 0 7 6 7 0 7 (ah, yes!!) 0 7 9 7 9 7 (not really worth the effort) 0 7 9 9 9 10 0 7 0 9 0 0 x x 2 1 3 0 x 7 6 7 0 0 0 7 6 4 3 0 (let's see you play that in a hurry) 0 11 12 9 0 0 0 11 0 9 0 0 (and there are many more). Is this what is very clear to you - or is it something different? Laurie - Original Message - From: Mike Whitaker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 12:53 PM Subject: Re: [abcusers] Complex Chords in ABC On Monday 08 April 2002 11:13 am, you wrote: A chord sequence written A E/A D/A A means something very clear to me *exactly* as written. I'm *guessing* it means [Acea] [A,EGBe] [A,DFAd] [Acea] in a key signature of three sharps, but should I (or a piece of software generating such an expansion) have to guess? Which is WHY we propose a STANDARD. -- Mike Whitaker| Work: +44 1733 766619 | Work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] System Architect | Fax: +44 1733 348287 | Home: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CricInfo Ltd | GSM: +44 7971 977375 | Web: http://www.cricinfo.com/ To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] The virtues of handling music graphically
Nice advert. I guess I should remind people that Muse is a graphical music editor that imports and exports ABC and costs only £20 which is around $35 for those in the USA. I suppose while we're doing adverts I should add how it can also translate ABC into guitar tablature (or mandolin, balalaika bouzouki etc). Plays, prints, is very easy to use, has a comprehensive help file, can write scores with up to 8 parallel parts (V: etc in ABC) which you can arrange either one or two per staff. Supports the four clefs (good for violas, trombones etc) Transposes (good for saxophones, singers etc.), supports guitar chords played above a capo, can handle any tuning when generating guitar tablature (or generating 5-line notation from tablature), gives you 30 days free trial and some function (such as displaying ABC on the screen as a 5-line score) permanently free, is a small, quick download (written in C, shunning MFC etc to avoid bloat), fast screen drawing (written in C not Java), I could go on, but I guess I already have been. Apologies for boring those of you who knew all this already. Laurie - Original Message - From: Doug Rogers/Yowza Software [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 11:00 PM Subject: [abcusers] The virtues of handling music graphically ... I guess I'm writing this to remind those who don't that for a pretty small investment (less than $100 for MusEdit and several other notation packages) ... To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] The virtues of handling music graphically
No, sorry - no Linux version. (You mean Linux doesn't have a Windows emulation subsystem!!) L. - Original Message - From: Ulf Bro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [abcusers] The virtues of handling music graphically Am Samstag, 13. April 2002 01:05 schrieb Laurie (ukonline): Nice advert. :-) the USA. I suppose while we're doing adverts I should add how it can also translate ABC into guitar tablature (or mandolin, balalaika bouzouki etc). I have mentioned exactly this to the co-mando (mandoline players' email list). You haven't written a Linux version of Muse, have you? Ulf To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] The virtues of handling music graphically
FWIW Muse does not use any secret, or undocumented parts of the Windows interface. (During my time in the Windows Systems group in MS I never came across any interfaces that were intended to be secret. What I did find were places where an app had been developed to an early-version interface that we in Windows had thought better of and replaced in the released product by something that worked better. Meanwhile the guys in the apps group didn't feel much like rewriting *their* stuff just because we were too stupid to have all our second thoughts first. So the thing would be left in but undocumented). Of course, there may have been secrets that I wasn't told (almost by definition of secret). L. - Original Message - From: John Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 3:58 AM Subject: Re: [abcusers] The virtues of handling music graphically Rick writes: | Laurie (ukonline) wrote: | | No, sorry - no Linux version. | | (You mean Linux doesn't have a Windows emulation subsystem!!) | | Shudder!!! (To the backdrop of loud wailing and gnashing of teeth!!) ;-) Well, actually, it does have several. Wine and Lindows come to mind. They both do have limitations, though, related to the fact that Windows' inner workings are secret. There are Microsoft products that use undocumented parts of the OS, and it's real hard to do a proper emulation of things that you aren't permitted to know anything about. One of the linux news stories lately has been Microsoft's attempt to squash Lindows by burying them with legal costs. MS claims that Lindows is a trademark infringement. Supposedly it is similar enough to Windows to cause confusion on the part of their customers. This has, naturally, led to a lot of humor. Suggestions that it's true; MS's customers generally aren't smart enough to tell the difference. And Microsoft is also filing suit against several major real estate firms for selling houses that contain windows not licensed by Microsoft. That sort of thing. There's also a cute followup suit from the BE OS people, claiming that Windows ME infringes their name. After all, ME differs in only one letter from BE. They point to the Lindows suit as evidence that Microsoft itself agrees with the principle. There's some strange humor in these circles ... To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] The virtues of handling music graphically
Buddha Buck wrote off-list (the best place) to the effect that snip One thing I hear from your comment is that the MS Apps folks had access to pre-release API's to base their apps on. snip Which meant that the MS App folks got a head-start on development on the new versions snip and I replied (off-list) Correct! I believe that to be the valid complaint. It was 2-edged (the early, changing versions of OLE were a nightmare, they broke schedules, they broke marriages and they broke people) but still valid. I have been out since '96 so I don't know if it still goes on. I would add that I personally think that the conspiracy theories are tosh and that businesses are *supposed* to compete but people don't like it when they win. Most businesses play as close to the rules as they can and sometimes they step over the mark. In the case of the Netscape thing, MS was badly frightened and felt it was fighting for its life, it was so far behind. I don't think that big monopolies are a good thing, but the nature of the economics of scale in software tends to produce them and we need new law which we haven't got (neither in the US nor elsewhere). Enough. I'm concerned that this is a non-ABC thread so I'll stop here and only reply further off-line, but I thought I should reply to this lest I be seen as an MS PR bod (which I am not!). Laurie - Original Message - From: Buddha Buck [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip One thing I hear from your comment is that the MS Apps folks had access to pre-release API's to base their apps on. snip Which meant that the MS App folks got a head-start on development on the new versions snip - Original Message - From: Gary J Sibio [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 7:01 AM Subject: Re: [abcusers] The virtues of handling music graphically I'm responding tomore than just your post here so not everything here applies to what you wrote. At 11:49 PM 4/14/02 +0100, you wrote: You seemed to miss the point. I *was* in MS. Which part of MS were you in? 1) I did miss your point that you worked for MS. 2) You were speaking of interfaces; I was speaking of API calls. 3) Someone asked about evidence 3a) the Justice Department suit. They recommended splitting up Microsoft because they were able to use code in the operating system to their benefit which was not generally made available to other developers. 3b) Anybody who writes code for Windows knows that there are undocumented API calls because they have been uncovered by individuals who then spread the word about them via the Internet, books or journals. While Microsoft recommends against their use because they can be changed without notice. Of couse that does not apply to MS who knows exactly how and when these changes will take place. 4) Someone griped that this is an ABC group and not a MS-bashing group which, to a point, is a valid issue and this is the last I intend to post on this topic. However, it is also for people who write ABC software - if it wasn't for the software, ABC would be pretty useless, wouldn't it - and have to deal with the fact that MS does have its little tricks. The upshot is, if you like the way MS operates, that's your business but don't try to convince me they deal evenhandedly with third-party developers. I've been screwed over by them too often to buy it. Unfortunately, market realities demand that MS has to be dealt with. Gary J. Sibio To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Wanted: a good strathspey for fiddle in Bb
That's what I thought! - Original Message - From: Wil Macaulay [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 11:36 PM Subject: RE: [abcusers] Wanted: a good strathspey for fiddle in Bb Actually, there's a substantial community of Cape Breton fiddlers in Boston, so lots of strathspeys get played there. wil -Original Message- From: Laurie (ukonline) To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 4/16/2002 1:28 PM Subject: Re: [abcusers] Wanted: a good strathspey for fiddle in Bb Dishonest answer: Yes - but then you have to mess about with it until it plays well on the fiddle. And it seemed to me that some people might have already done that work! Honest answer: I don't have *any* strathspeys in my repertoire (I live in the South of England, that's a long way from Scotland. Musically, Boston, MA might be closer). L. - Original Message - From: Laura Conrad [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 5:53 PM Subject: Re: [abcusers] Wanted: a good strathspey for fiddle in Bb Laurie == laurie griffiths Laurie writes: Laurie I need a good strathspey to play on the fiddle in the key of B flat major. Laurie Any suggestions? Transpose whatever strathspey you like into the key of Bb? -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] jcabc2ps and mystery breton tune
Oh, Lord! I never realised that Bretons had been treated like that! Laurie - Original Message - From: Quiniou Rene [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 9:11 AM Subject: Re: [abcusers] jcabc2ps and mystery breton tune Kerfank means camp of mud. The following web sites describe (in French) the historic episode the song of Tri Yann is about. http://www.bzh.com/keltia/galleg/histoire/bretagne/emsav-1/conlie.htm http://www.chez.com/buan1/avproposconlie.html René John Chambers wrote: | 2) mystery breton tune | the Breton band Tri Yann called it Kerfank 1870 Hmmm ... I wonder what that means? I don't know any Breton at all. Maybe I'll put that name in my file, though. To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Chords
Muse will play them. (Muse is not alone in this, in fact I think there are lots of programs that will). Laurie - Original Message - From: Karl Dallas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 10:46 AM Subject: RE: [abcusers] Chords Very interesting. Is there any way I can get my PC to play the chords (strange or otherwise) in an abc tune? Abc2win seems to ignore them. -- Karl Dallas, HoustonMedia Please note new email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel: +44(0)771 980 5907 Publishers of the jTechUpdate (Java), RUXPerienced (Windows XP), KD on jazz and KD on folk mailing lists. . To subscribe send email with 'subscribe' in the Subject field to . jTechUpdate: [EMAIL PROTECTED] . RUXPerienced: [EMAIL PROTECTED] . HardwareDaily: [EMAIL PROTECTED] . SoftwareDaily: [EMAIL PROTECTED] . KD on jazz: [EMAIL PROTECTED] . KD on folk: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of John Walsh Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 11:57 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [abcusers] Chords Henrik Norbeck writes: Yes, but even if you set strangeness in AbcMus to 100% at least one of the notes in the chord must also be in the beat or bar it is set to, so for instance (in key of G) |GABG| could only have the following chords (I think): G major, E minor, C major, B minor, D major, D minor, A major, A minor, F major, F# minor, C minor, Eb major, G minor, B major, E major, G# minor (the last ones are indeed pretty strange though) But it could not have an F minor chord set to it, since none of the notes in that chord (F Ab c) are in the music it should be set to. I play the pipes, so, apart from the elementary chords one can get from the regulators, harmony is Someone Else's Problem; and something that seems ordinary to someone else might seem strange to me. But it's more the overall sound than the individual chords. When you crank up the strangeness on a simple Irish polka and it comes out sounding like a fugitive from the Rites of Spring, what else can you call it? I'm still grinning. Obligatory abc content: The R: field is only supposed to go in the header, according to the 1.6 spec. Now that some playback programs use this field for their stress programs, I think it should be allowed in the tune. By coincidence, the tunes I checked before posting this were in a medley: slide/polka/slip jig/polka, a bit of a joke, the joke being that the rhythm changes a couple of bars before the tune changes, e.g. the last two bars of the slide are in 2/4, the last two bars of the polka are in 9/8, etc. I'd like to use the R: field there to get the rhythm change to sound right on playback. Cheers, John Walsh P.S. For those of you who don't have Abcmus and wonder what we're talking about, (hope you don't mind, Henrik) here's Tommy Reck's Polka, with chords set by Henrik's Cyberbacker, 2 chords/bar and strangeness = 100%. (100% is overkill---you can get a number of different effects at much smaller settings, which is practical, since it suggests alternate chords to use---but we're testing the limits here.) Listen three times before making up your mind. But beware: if you listen to it too much, the ordinary accompaniment may begin to sound vapid. X:4 T:Tommy Reck's R:polka Z:J Walsh S:T. Reck M:2/4 K:D A#A2d2 D#fgfe|D#md2F2 A#A3d|A#mc2E2 G#mG3B|A#A2D2 FF2A2|\ A#A2d2 D#fgfe|D#md2F2 A#A3d|Fc2A2 D#G2E2|A#F2D2 A#D4:| A#f2d2 A#d4|G#mc2B2 G#mB4|G#me2B2 G#mc2B2|FB2A2 FF2A2|\ A#f2d2 A#d4|G#mc2B2 G#mB4|G#mB2e2 A#mB2c2|Fd6 z2:| For comparison, here it is with strangeness = 0%, still 2 chords/bar. It's actually the same tune... X:4 T:Tommy Reck's R:polka S:T. Reck M:2/4 K:D DA2d2 Dfgfe|Dd2F2 DA3d|Ac2E2 GG3B|DA2D2 DF2A2|\ DA2d2 Dfgfe|Dd2F2 DA3d|F#mc2A2 EmG2E2|DF2D2 DD4:| Df2d2 Dd4|F#mc2B2 BmB4|Eme2B2 F#mc2B2|BmB2A2 DF2A2|\ Df2d2 Dd4|F#mc2B2 BmB4|EmB2e2 BmB2c2|Dd6 z2:| To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] äÌÑ ÄÉÒÅËÔÏÒÁ ... WQKOIKFYMT
The title appears to be nonsense, the rest is Russian with the odd English word. I only had a quick look, but I think it was advertising mass-mailing tools. The first thing after the heading said Buy our disk. You will get a truly something marketing mechanism. The something represents Moshnyeyshee, a word not in my dictionary. Whether it's derived from Moshyennik (a swindler) I know not. It went on 3300 English language addresses. blah I would like to add my voice to the subscribers only policy, if it isn't too hard to implement. If we were to vote - better make sure only subscribers can vote! Laurie. To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Percussion notation...
Hmmm ... Y'know; that might not be too difficult. For the x note heads, it would have been nice if 'x' hadn't been already taken up as an invisible rest; it would have made an intuitively-correct modifier for this purpose. Maybe we could use '*' for this purpose, so the *e would be an e with an 'x' for the note head. Either clef=drum or clef=perc might be good ways to show the clef. I wonder how long it would take to hack this into your typical abc2ps formatter? Well as Muse already has diamond, cross square (oh, and the usual ellipse) for note heads, the answer is about minus three years for the formatting, GUI editing, printing, etc. For the ABC, if people agree on the syntax it should be about an hour or two of work. For the playing - that might be a mess. Is there a *generally* *agreed* meaning for these things? or is each drummer going to want it to look and play *his* (or her) way? Laurie To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Percussion notation...
There isn't much use of 'x' as a non-printing rest (yet). There's enough that I implmented the damn thing and I don't want to start unimplementing it and making exceptions. Laurie To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Percussion notation...
I think I'd be in favour of something that went in K: to say what follows are to be interpreted as percussion symbols. It seems to me that what the key signature does is to define how the following notes are to be interpreted (this one is sharp, that one is not and so forth) and it's merely a generalisation of this to say this one is a floor-tom, that one is a cymbal. So my suggestion is K:Percussion or if you prefer K:clef=Perc or K:Clef=P and then everything is to be interpreted as percussion until further notice. Players should make banging noises, formatters should use x for noteheads, transposers should have a great time (*some* percussion is tuned!) and so on. Laurie To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Percussion notation...
On Fri, 24 May 2002, Laurie (ukonline) wrote: Well as Muse already has diamond, cross square (oh, and the usual ellipse) for note heads, the answer is about minus three years for the formatting, GUI editing, printing, etc. How does the abc look for this in muse? It doesn't! Muse has its own format which has supported these things for quite a while. There is no point in trying to import it from ABC because there is no ABC out there that has it - i.e. no official standard and no de facto standard either and nobody notices the lack in Muse because there is no body of files for people to try. There is no point in exporting it from ABC because there's no place to export it to. If you want to export it to anopther copy of Muse then you can do that much better in Muse format (which will remember a load of other stuff about fonts, layout, view, staffs, tablature too). If there is an official or a de facto standard, then so long as it's not too peculiar, an hour or two of work should see Muse able to import it or export it. For instance, putting * in front of the note would be easy. However that would give something that could *look* like some sort of percussion score. To make it play like one is another matter. Incidentally I see in Tom Gerou and Linda Lusk's Essential Dictionary of Music Notation that non-pitched notes are written as x for a basic duration of 1/4 note (crotchet) and shorter but diamond for 1/2 and longer. (By basic duration I mean before considering dots, triplets etc). Their work seems to be as definitive as any (meaning not definitive at all, but a good starting point). Laurie To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Percussion notation...
Atte Andre Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wroteI don't care how my abc playes, and looking back on the descussion about ^f-|f a couple of months ago obviously abc2midi is only to be considered a toy, so I guess the rest of the comunity feels the same as me... polite cough abc2midi is not the only application that makes sound from ABC files*!* My customers find that proof-listening is *much* more reliable than proof-reading and the ability of Muse to make some noises that represent what's on the screen aids enormously in eliminating errors. In our band we used to have hand-written music which was full of misprints that we only found out about when a stand-in musician played what was written on the page! When we put it all on the computer we eliminated almost all of them. It doesn't have to be a wonderfully impressive performance to achieve this, indeed I almost don't want Muse to make wonderful noises - I want it to help *people* to make wonderful noises. To make a visual analogy, the music is a picture and the computer gives a line drawing, but that is enough to show that Mary's left foot on the end of her right arm. It matters! Others do care. If you are playing with applications that don't play, may your eyes be sharp and your notes on pitch! Laurie To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] To tell the dancer from the dance
Frank Evil Grin Nordberg challenged Can anybody come up with a clear and consise definition (in twenty words or less) of the difference between musically relevant and purely notational features? A difference between two pieces of notation is musically relevant if and only if it means they should sound different. (20 words) Thus writing in a different key and inserting accidentals to correct is not musically relevant. Writing something in bass clef rather than treble clef with many legers is not musically relevant. Putting guitar chords above the staff rather than below is not musically relevant. An instruction to play a note on fret 9 of the G string instead of the open E string is musically relevant. Laurie To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] The F F (and F F2) problems
My vote is 1. Deprecated 2. Transfer fixed time to keep total constant (sorry Phil) I have no idea what Muse does - I kinds hope it screams murder!. L. - Original Message - From: Phil Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2002 2:13 PM Subject: [abcusers] The F F (and F F2) problems Laura wrote: abc2ly enables you to get both printed and played music from abc. I haven't fixed the ^F-|F problem yet, although it's on my list, but it certainly doesn't have the F F problem. What's the F F problem? Is that due to abc2midi misinterpreting R:Hornpipe to mean some other split of time between the two notes? Another problem I've come across with broken rhythms is that when you use it between notes of different lengths the result seems to be different in different programs. BarFly follows the standard by dotting one note and halving the other, but this gives a different total time duration from the original pair of notes: F F2 is interpreted as F3/ F which adds up to 2.5 rather than 3. It's clear that some other programs do it differently, transferring a fixed amount of time between the notes to keep the total constant so: F F2 is interpreted as F3/ F3/ or as F3 F adding up to 3. Which is correct? At the moment I advise users to avoid using broken rhythms between unequal notes on the grounds that the result is unpredictable - if in doubt write it out in full. Phil Taylor To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] The F F (and F F2) problems
Phil Wrote Laurie wrote My vote is 1. Deprecated... Er, what are you proposing to deprecate? Sorry - too hasty. Deprecate or between unequal length notes such as FF2 or F2F. As to how much time to transfer - well given that it's already deprecated this is getting picky - I'd just say some. Like I said, one band I play in transfers about half and another one about two thirds and then Claire sometimes like to play Gilderoy without any dottedness at all, so since it's all rather moot, I'd rather stay mute. :-) Laurie To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Fingering for instruments... (was : To tell the dancer from the dance)
abcm2ps allows !0!C!1!D !2!E!3!F !4!G!5!A !+!B c to display nice numbers above staff and the w: field to display them below... The above looks pretty hideous and if you put the fingerings in w:, where do you put the words? Laurie To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Re: The F F (and F F2) problems
Frank asked I really wonder what the results from other abc applications are. Well, (deep breath) Muse didn't like it a lot. It generates a bug report saying ABC ties don't match Muse ties. Please report this bug to me. That is one of quite a learge number of messages in Muse that are never supposed to appear (Assertions in the jargon), so in other words it broke Muse. Muse also produced many complaints (the listing below only works with a fixed space font) in which it in effect reported its own limitations without being broken. I think Evil Grin would be just fine as a title. T:none C:Frank Nordberg V:1 program 1 64 V:2 program 1 25 transpose -12 M:10/16 L:1/8 Q:5/16=100 K:Flyd _G ^ Unknown symbol in K: field V:1 zz2 zz2|:zz2 zz2|FF2 F2F|GFE/ F3/-F/B/-| V:2 .F,F/(C/B,/) F/F,/F/(C/B,/)|:.F,F/(C/B,/) F/F,/F/(C/B,/)|\ ^ Cannot tie across a Repeat control. (Muse restriction - tie deleted.) .F,F/(C/B,/) F/F,/F/(C/B,/)|.F,F/(C/B,/) F/F,/F/(C/B,/)| % V:1 BAG FE/F/|GG2 G2G|ABG/ FAD/|[1((3C/D/CB,- B,)z2:| V:2 .F,F/(C/B,/) F/F,/F/(C/B,/)|.F,F/(C/B,/) F/F,/F/(C/B,/)|\ .F,F/(C/B,/) F/F,/F/(C/B,/)|[1.F,F/(C/B,/) F/F,/F/(C/B,/):| % V:1 [2((3C/D/CB,- B,)(F/G//A//B//||c3/-c- c3/-c)|(cdcAB)|c3/-c- c3/-c| V:2 [2.F,F/(C/B,/) F/F,/F/(C/B,/)||.G,G/(C/B,/) G/G,/G/(C/B,/)|\ .G,G/(C/B,/) G/G,/G/(C/B,/)|.G,G/(C/B,/) G/G,/G/(C/B,/)| % V:1 (cdcAB)|d(c/(3d/c/B/ A-A2-|[M:5/16]A (3FD/C/|[M:10/16]B,DC/ ^ Ignoring unexpected ABC symbol :5/16]A (3FD/C/|[M:10/16]B,DC/ ^ Ignoring unexpected ABC symbol 5/16]A (3FD/C/|[M:10/16]B,DC/ ^ Cannot tie across a Repeat control. (Muse restriction - tie deleted.) ^ Ignoring unexpected ABC symbol 6]A (3FD/C/|[M:10/16]B,DC/ ^ Ignoring unexpected ABC symbol :10/16]B,DC/ ^ Ignoring unexpected ABC symbol 0/16]B,DC/ ^ Ignoring unexpected ABC symbol 6]B,DC/ B,3/-B,-|B,)z2 zz2|| V:2 .G,G/(C/B,/) G/G,/G/(C/B,/)|.G,G/(C/B,/) G/G,/G/(C/B,/)|\ [M:5/16].G,G/(C/B,/)|[M:10/16].F,F/(C/B,/) F/F,/F/(C/B,/)|\ ^ Ignoring unexpected ABC symbol :5/16].G,G/(C/B,/)|[M:10/16].F,F/(C/B,/) F/F,/F/(C/B,/)|\ ^ Ignoring unexpected ABC symbol 5/16].G,G/(C/B,/)|[M:10/16].F,F/(C/B,/) F/F,/F/(C/B,/)|\ ^ Ignoring unexpected ABC symbol 6].G,G/(C/B,/)|[M:10/16].F,F/(C/B,/) F/F,/F/(C/B,/)|\ ^ Ignoring unexpected ABC symbol :10/16].F,F/(C/B,/) F/F,/F/(C/B,/)|\ ^ Ignoring unexpected ABC symbol 0/16].F,F/(C/B,/) F/F,/F/(C/B,/)|\ ^ Ignoring unexpected ABC symbol 6].F,F/(C/B,/) F/F,/F/(C/B,/)|\ .F,F/(C/B,/) F/F,/F/(C/B,/)| To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] resons for using abc
Atte: speed? I think I'm faster in abc than I used to be in encore, but I'm not sure... Phil: When using a graphical music editor to type music in from a score, this is what you spend most time doing: *Look at the score, see that the next note is A and it's 1/8. etc OUCH! Get Muse! OK - I don't want to knock ABC, but I have to put the other side of the argument. The way that I enter stuff in Muse is typically to use up and down arrow keys to move the cursor up and down the staff and the number keys to control the note length - 4 is a 1/4 note, then 3 is a 1/2 note 2 is twice as long again, likewise 5 is 1/8 etc.) So if I use ^ to represent the cursor up-arrow and v to represent the cursor down arrow, to enter Twinkle Twinkle Little Star I'd type 4444^44v3v44v44v44v3p The p on the end says play it back to me. After entering each note the cursor moves on a little. To get a dotted note I type a . (American: period, English: full-stop) after the note. After finding the starting note, the above works in any key. For ABC to write it in A major, I'd have to change it to G G d d e e d2 c c B B A A G2 into (say) A A e e f f e2 d d c c B B A2 As each note is entered, the software plays the note to you, so you get immediate feedback that the pitch is correct BY LISTENING, you only need the final playback to check the timing. If you hit a wrong note then Ctrl+up or down arrow will drag the note to the next pitch above or below and again, plays the new note as it does so. If the timing is wrong then Ctrl+right or left arrow will stretch or shrink it. (e.g. Ctrl+right arrow does 1/8 - 3/16 - 1/4 - 3/8 - 1/2 etc). Enough said. Long live ABC! I have nothing against it but entering tadpoles by keyboard can be quick too! Laurie To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] resons for using abc
JC's tune finder is magic. For instance I was at the last M27 Megabop which Rufus Returns played at. They played one number I really liked but I was unable to learn it there and then (no Mozart, I). I went to Chipenham Folk Festival last weekend and someone played it in the English Session in the Rose and Crown barn. I asked what it was called (The Dark Girl Dressed in Blue) and I now have about 10 different versions of it. Magic. Laurie To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] resons for using abc
I have performed magic on stage in the past. There was of course always a mundane behind-the-scenes explanation of what appeared to happen, there was some effort needed to implement the tricks, some people to whom credit was due, etc. It's definitely magic. Laurie - Original Message - From: John Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] Laurie writes: | JC's tune finder is magic. | | ... one number I really liked but I was unable to learn it there ... | I asked what it was called ... and I now have | about 10 different versions of it. Magic. Hmmm I should object to this. It's not magic. There's a bunch of code behind it, snip To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Embro, Embro CD-ROM
Too true! I remember having a *lot* of fun with Muse over just such pixellation-on-screen and spacing problems in the early days. L. - Original Message - From: Phil Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... Acrobat Reader doesn't understand music, and (for example) doesn't know that staff lines MUST be equally spaced. If (as usually happens) the spacing of the staff lines doesn't fit the pixel spacing it tries to make up for this by antialiasing them, so they come out fuzzy and different thicknesses. All of which is irrelevant if you print on a high resolution printer, but it looks bad on screen. The pictures were made by BarFly, which does understand music, and makes lots of little compromises to make the music readable on screen. Phil Taylor To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Embro, Embro CD-ROM
I haven't messed with music in pdf enough to be sure if it can happen, but if a staff line is only a single row of pixels then simple-minded algorithms can sometimes drop the row altogether and that is a complete disaster. Incidentally, I make sure that I keep the master copies of the music for our band BOTH as hard copies and as electronic files (Muse rather than ABC, but the principle is the same). One favourite trick of ink-jet printers is to develop a blocked jet and this can do horrible things to horizontal lines of staffs. You tend to notice them at gigs when you suddenly realise the music is unreadable. Top or bottom lines are deadly, but the in-between ones are pretty bad too. I thought that photocopiers were immune to this, but I recently went to a workshop where the chap who ran it (Dave Brown) had printed one master copy of the music and photocopied it many times to hand out to the participants. He described it as a high quality photocopier. It must have been a really high-tech one that rasterised the image. It also must have had the page horizontally aligned to high precision because it managed to lose staff lines. On one page you could actually see the line fading out as it went across the page and on another (presumably later) copy of the same page there was no trace of it at all. A little mis-alignment would have worked wonders! I know this is pretty tangential to ABC, but I thought it might be of interest. Laurie - Original Message - From: John Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 6:07 PM Subject: Re: [abcusers] Embro, Embro CD-ROM Phil Taylor wrote: | Acrobat Reader doesn't understand music, and (for example) doesn't know | that staff lines MUST be equally spaced. If (as usually happens) the | spacing of the staff lines doesn't fit the pixel spacing it tries to | make up for this by antialiasing them, so they come out fuzzy and different | thicknesses. All of which is irrelevant if you print on a high resolution | printer, but it looks bad on screen. This is a problem with boh Acrobat (acroread) and Ghostview, and probably with any other PS or PDF viewer. It took me a while to discover why music looked so awful with ghostview. Finally I tried turning off the antialiasing (though I didn't really have much of an idea what that did), and then the music looked really nice. It does have a problem on a small screen or small window, with staff lines not quite evenly spaced. But this is better than what antialiasing does to the staffs. To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Re: Antialiasing
Yes - I am absolutely sure that it was not in the master copy because I made a complete fool of myself telling him that he should have printed one copy and photocpied it. He said that is what had been done. I said no way or words to that effect and he said that as he had done it himself, personally, ... So I learnt something about photocopiers! Laurie - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 12:49 PM Subject: [abcusers] Re: Antialiasing Laurie wrote: One favourite trick of ink-jet printers is to develop a blocked jet and this can do horrible things to horizontal lines of staffs. You tend to notice them at gigs when you suddenly realise the music is unreadable. Top or bottom lines are deadly, but the in-between ones are pretty bad too. I thought that photocopiers were immune to this, but I recently went to a workshop where the chap who ran it (Dave Brown) had printed one master copy of the music and photocopied it many times to hand out to the participants. He described it as a high quality photocopier. It must have been a really high-tech one that rasterised the image. It also must have had the page horizontally aligned to high precision because it managed to lose staff lines. On one page you could actually see the line fading out as it went across the page and on another (presumably later) copy of the same page there was no trace of it at all. A little mis-alignment would have worked wonders! To me it sounds much more likely that the flaw was in the master copy. Are you sure this wasn't the case? __ /\/\/\/\ __ | | | | | David Barnert __ | | | | | [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ | | | | | Albany, N.Y. __ \/\/\/\/ Ventilator Concertina Bellows Bellows (Vocation) (Avocation) To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Music Engraving Today
I tend to use Essential Dictionary of Music Notation by Tom Gerou and Linda Lusk. ISBN 0-88284-768-6 It's clear and it's short. - Original Message - From: Bob Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 12:12 AM Subject: [abcusers] Music Engraving Today I was just wondering if anyone has read this and could comment on it. It looks like it might be useful to anyone writing a notation program: http://www.npcimaging.com/books/Powell.htm Also, slightly off topic, those people running websites might like to check out the zits cartoons for the last few days. Start at: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/fun/zits.asp?date=20020617 and work forward. Bob -- -- Bob Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] iabc, and features expected in softwares in general
Interesting. The thing that has bothered me for a long time is whether being able to have files dropped on you is worth a megabyte of download time. When I built Muse I avoided MFC because the instant you touch it the file size goes up by a megabyte (it may be more). Now it may be possible to be a drop target the hard way and only use a few bytes, and the Internet is getting faster, but are we there yet. (In fact I compile Muse with MSDev 4 because that also gave a smaller executable). This is the reason why you can't drop files onto Muse. On the other hand, it gives huge amount of function, I am frequently told that it's very easy to use (contrast the endless notes on this forum about how do you tweak this or that abc app to overcome its limitations) and is just over 300K to download and that includes the online help which is about the same size as the executable. So, while I agree with all of the sentiments expressed - I also must add that a normal user can expect the Internet to download a 3MB file in 10 seconds. Of course he/she will be disappointed!! So (and obviously this is a matter of opinion) what are these functions worth in download space? And incidentally, was Muse one of the programs that you tried? I'm currently doing a massive re-write and being a drop target is actually not one of the things I was going to do. I thought that before doing that I would do: * Much better support for piano-like scores * Much better support for lyrics * Much better ease of entry (and it was already very good) (I'm keying in the choruses of The Messiah as a test case for that lot) * Much easier control of play (quite a few choral singers use it to help learn their parts). * Live MIDI input (which has always been just over the horizon because it sort of works, but gives more effort in post-editing than it saved in typing). * Easier/better guitar tablature generation An I may throw in a suggest a guitar chord function because it looks like fun. The lyrics stuff will probably include support for w: and W: in ABC. Opinions? Incidentally, I presume that Muse was not one of the ones you tried as it has not been recently announced on the list. If you give it a try, do let me know what you think. If you want to be a guinea pig for the rewrite, I have fairly robust running code, though obviously not all the above features are yet working and the on-line help is very much behind. Laurie - Original Message - From: Forgeot Eric [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 8:46 PM Subject: [abcusers] iabc, and features expected in softwares in general I've downloaded the recent softwares annonced on the list. For iabc, the display is really better than previous version (even if it's not at the level of postscript application) and it looks promising. But there is still some limitations. Here is what a normal user can expect from a software (especially music / abc related). It's only my preferences and several users would not understand my wishes but it may help nevertheless. It's not about display / hearing abc, but it's about program conveniences and file management. In my opinion this software should : - open files with drag and drop (for windows, but maybe for other O/S too) - when you open file from the dialog box (file...open... etc.), give the choice in the file type filter to choose other extensions (not only *.abc, but *.* ) otherwise (especially if there is no drag and drop support), there is no way to open a file which have a bad choosen extension (for example *.txt instead *.abc), unless to rename it. There is this limitation in iabc - allow to enter data directly into the application, without opening any file (from an other application with copy and paste, or from scratch) : skink does this very well with its conveniant field when we can enter notes. - not lock a file loaded especially if it doesn't write anything in it : in iabc it's not possible to make correction in an abc file (with an ascii editor for example) and then save it to review it later in iabc : the file is write protected by iabc. And if you load an other file in order to free the previous file, the previous is still locked : you just have to close iabc and then open the application again, find the right folder, reload the file etc. - save folder preferences (favorite folders ) and keep the last directory used in a configuration (log or .ini) file. - add keyboard shortcuts for every command (or for the most used at least) - follow the general convention for shortcuts (ctrl + c for copy, ctrl + a for select all etc.) - when several tunes are processed, not stop if it detects an error in a tune : just ignore the tune and follow on with the other tunes - eventually try to display the tune nevertheless if an error is detected (but gives warnings) : it's maybe a minor one (unsupported feature) and the tune may look quite the same - gives a lot of option (possibility to allow / disallow
Re: [abcusers] iabc, and features expected in softwares in general
| - add keyboard shortcuts for every command (or for the most used | at least) | | Yes, although with over 100 menu commands there aren't enough | keys to go round. I think I counted that Muse has about 70 shortcuts defined (so there's heavy use of Ctrl+this and Shift+that). It would be a very expert user that knew them all. I have recently been putting more and more function into right-click pop-up menus (for instance to change the length of a note, the clef, etc) and even more effort into in-place editing. As soon as you have a few bars entered, the music becomes a palette of things to do for the rest. So you can clone (almost) any symbol and enter it elsewhere. By definition, the more common symbols in your style of music are the ones that are right there on the screen ready to clone. Beyond that, many symbols can be edited in-place. The usual mechanism I use is to hold down Ctrl and use the cursor keys. Thus you can edit a tempo indication to change the value of the note or the number per minute, the length of a note, the pitch of a note (nudging it up may introduce a sharp, nudging it up again may kill the sharp and move it up on the staff). A chord symbol can be cycled through the possible chord roots and types (G7 =G#7 = A7 etc or G =G7 = Gm =Gdim etc). In fact most music symbols can be edited this way. This is much easier than trying to memorise all the shortcuts. [weasel words - some of the above function is not yet published, but if anyone with Windows wants to volunteer as a beta tester they can have a look]. Now I appreciate that this is not ABC and some people may se me as wearing horns - but I just see this, ABC, my fiddle and so on as complementary ways of making and communicating music. Laurie To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] iabc, and features expected in softwares in general
From: Jack Campin [EMAIL PROTECTED] !snip ! !Here are a few more application-level things that might make life !easier: !We need: ! * transposition (which understands the mode of what's being ! transposed) ! !snip Why does transposition need to understand the mode? Am I missing something? Laurie To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Re: transposition and modes
Laurie Why does transposition need to understand the mode? Laura Currently, the abc2midi transposer only understands the key signature. So if I have a piece in D dorian, and I transpose it up 3 half notes, the transposed output is in Ab. It should be in F dorian. Oh, is that all? I would hardly call the ability to copy the name of the mode from input to output understanding it. I thought it might have been something to do with whether a note should be called F# (or ^F) in D phrygian (2 flats) but Gb (or _G) in some other 2-flats mode (F mix??) and I was all ready to start busting my head to figure out a good algorithm! Actually I think there *is* something about deciding how a given note is to be represented (which, aside from tempering questions, is a reason for wanting double-sharp and double-flat symbols) but slavishly copy the input seems to work. (I plead guilty - Muse does not yet do double-accidentals). In other words if the effect of an accidental in the original was to modify the note by n (signed number) semitones then do the same to the output. Of course if a key signature had a note flatted and the music had it double-sharped then (1) a triple-sharp would be needed and (2) the input file is silly anyway so who cares? I await Frank's counter-example!! Laurie To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Re: transposition and modes
| Of course if a key signature had a note flatted and the music had it | double-sharped then (1) a triple-sharp would be needed and (2) the input | file is silly anyway so who cares? | | No (1) is wrong because accidentals are absolute, rather than relative. Beg to differ. If it was flatted in the key-sig and is double-sharped then it is to play 3 semitones higher than normal. If that was transposed into the open key then it would require a triple-sharp or else moving it onto a different staff position (breaking your staff placement rule which turns out to be the same as my slavishly copy rule). L. To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] iabc, and features expected in softwares in general
One reason for preferring sharps for guitar chords is that if they are actually to be played on a *guitar*, you can always move a shape up the neck by a fret, so that I can immediately think of several ways to play A#. Of course they need barlocks, but there's not always a way round that. On the other hand the chords of Ab, Db, Eb, Gb and for that matter Cb all require a mental shifting of gears to avoid having to use fret number minus one. I'm pleased to say that in Muse the option to force the guitar chords into sharps is indeed optional. Laurie - Original Message - From: Atte Andre Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 10:09 PM Subject: Re: [abcusers] iabc, and features expected in softwares in general On 22 Jun 2002, Laura Conrad wrote: laurie == laurie griffiths Laurie writes: laurie Why does transposition need to understand the mode? Currently, the abc2midi transposer only understands the key signature. So if I have a piece in D dorian, and I transpose it up 3 half notes, the transposed output is in Ab. It should be in F dorian. And even worse: most (all?) guitar-chords with a black-key root is translated into sharp rooted version: X:1 T:test M:4/4 L:1/4 C:Atte K:C CCDEF | Bb7GFED | Ab7C4 | G7z4 Becomes this after abc2abc org.abc -t 2 (the A#7 should have been Bb7): X: 1 T:test M:4/4 L:1/4 C:Atte K:D DDEFG | C7AGFE | A#7D4 | A7z4 although abc2abc org.abc -t 5 is ok: X: 1 T:test M:4/4 L:1/4 C:Atte K:F FFGAB | Eb7cBAG | Db7F4 | C7z4 Maybe it's because my harmonies are more chromatic than my melodies, but I fell the most transposition hickups by abc2abc is in the guitar-chords... -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Question about rhythm notation
The attitude that I take in Muse is that Muse does beaming automatically, so I disregard the beaming information in the ABC. I can argue both sides of this, but the argument for this action is that fundamentally ABC is about describing the music, not the printed page. What Muse does is to *translate* ABC into staff notation and in doing so makes a great many decisions (relative spacing of notes, margins, vertical alignment of the different voices, how far apart and how thick to draw the lines of the staff, how thick are leger lines, etc. etc. and finally, which notes to beam. In fact I've just been rewriting the beaming engine in Muse and it seems to me that trying to express beaming in ABC in all but the simplest cases is impossible. For instance consider even [GB]A and I want the G and A to be beamed but the B to be a separate flag. Or if you think you can solve that one ( perhaps [B G]A ) then how about [BG] [AF] and I want the B to be beamed with the A, tails up and the G with the F, tails down. It can get much, much worse than this. Get a Messiah choral score and look at the accompianist's(*) part for Surely He hath borne our griefs. A solution is probably to use V: and recognise that these are separate voices (and Frank, for one, can supply very complex examples). In general I think the attitude of programs should be that where the ABC cannot be directly expressed in the new notation it is to be *translated* into some equivalent. In just the same way, when translating English into American don't play the fool goes across directly but stop buggering about doesn't and let's table this proposal needs a complete rewrite. So, yes. A4- AA or perhaps A4-A A Laurie (*) It started as a misprint, but was too good to waste. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 4:43 AM Subject: [abcusers] Question about rhythm notation How should a program handle this: M:3/4 L:1/4 A5 A| ... I think what the author was intending was: A4- AA| but since there is no '1/2 dot' in music that I know of, there is really no note head that corresponds to A5. Since beaming in ABC is defined by the music and not the program, I had taken this to mean that a single note should correspond to a note with a single beam. In the A5 case it was pretty obvious what to do, but in the more general case, is there something that ABC defines, or people expect to happen, when the note duration explicitly specified doesn't correspond to a known note length? Thanks for the input, Aaron To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Question about rhythm notation
If you ever try importing a MIDI file you rapidly realise that this is a simple case. Any non-Balkan time signature has a standard division into beats and subdivisions (beyond some point it's just continual dividing by two). You pad up to the next whole beat in steadily increasing multiples. Use the Greedy algorithm, but put the bits in in reverse order e.g. c/-c-c///-c//-c/-c/-c2. Then you do beats up to the next bar, then whole bars, then beats to the end of the next whole beat, then Greedy in forwards order until you get within a quantum of home, and you're done. Balkan time signatures no doubt also have a proper division but it's less well known around here. The more entertaining part of MIDI import is tempo following to know where the beats currently fall in real time and then guessing how seriously to take the not end times (Yeah, so it was only 20mSec, but its an off-beat so it's still a quarter note, just a tad staccato, not worth notating really). Laurie - Original Message - From: John Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [abcusers] Question about rhythm notation | How should a program handle this: | M:3/4 | L:1/4 | A5 A| ... | | I think what the author was intending was: | A4- AA| One of the reasons I'd expect a lot of programmers to throw up their hands at this is illustrated by: M:6/8 L:1/8 A5 A| ... Most musicians would object to rewriting this as A4- AA, and would suggest that A3- A2A is the right way. A bit of thought about how one might attempt to implement the general case will rather quickly lead to the conclusion that a fatal error message is a much better solution. To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Otche Nash
Guido said :...Sorry for not providing the original Russian lyrics,..., I'll be glad to accept them. I'm trying to get a Russian friend of mine to supply them and if she comes up with the goods I'll type them in. L. To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Otche Nash
The penny has just dropped. (It's hard reading these transliterations). It's the Lord's Prayer! Otche is approximately atyets (stress the yets) = father. Nash = our. I bet you can now manage to translate all the other words and if you count the lines carefully you might even know whether to stop at evil or go on about power and glory. Laurie To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] modes (again)
LaurieSure, but I've seen quite a few tunes with K:D and then every single C in the piece naturalised. In those cases invariably the description is half right - the tonic D is right, but the mode is wrong. Eric so does it means the right notation was to write K:Dm ? Probably K:Ddor Dm tends to acquire ^C as a leading note. Laurie To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Muse
Thanks. Muse2 (hopefully out in another month or so) has prettier notes. The restriction on different notes starting at the same time has gone away. that probably blows away some of your tab problems too. The options for setting up tab generation are probably going to be fixed in the release after. In the ABC area it will have w: and W: support. I'll probably rework the V: stuff a little - it already supports multi voice, just a question of trying to keep the syntax as generous as possible. For instance at the moment V:3 Ace is OK but [V:3]Dead is not. So trivial changes like that will probably get done while I'm at it. Laurie - Original Message - From: Forgeot Eric [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 11:01 PM Subject: [abcusers] Muse And incidentally, was Muse one of the programs that you tried? Yes, the first programs I tried when I first heard of abc (when I discovered internet as well) were Muse and Abc2win. To be honest, I was first reluctant to Muse because of the drawing of the notes. But I tried it anyway and find there was several useful options / editing facilities. It can many features, including transposing (good idea the transpose, play different look the same and conversely) and several more I didn't catch yet. And it's really efficient to enter notes with it. But I made a separation between pure abc applications and programs such as Muse, MusEdit, TablEdit, MusicEase, Stringwalker etc. which can a bit abc but are not dedicated to it (the fact that none of the above can edit the abc source code denote that, and they even not have multivoice support, and advanced abc features). Muse seems to be tablature-oriented and it seems to do that well. Someone asked one day for a guitar tablature application and I recommended to try TablEdit and Muse. Generally speaking, I think the main drawback of Muse is the display, can't you use true type fonts, like Abc2Win ? There is certainly domain public musical fonts you could use. It's true the apparence is not primordial for working on music, but it could be an advantage to look nicer. The way of changing options, only in the menu bar, is a bit frustrating because if you want to configure the guitar tab for example, you have to go to options muse settings tablature generation settings [option to change] several times : if there was a pop up window with all the tablature generation settings, you could change this quicker. To be able to select with the mouse would be better than to select with and (or to have the choise of the two) About tablatures, I'm using to generate ascii tab a freeware called PowerTab. It has an efficient feature called Shifter tool and can shift string-wise or fret-wise, so it's quite quick and easy to configure several notes as wanted. Muse goes a bit further in configuration, but it's longer to configure. There is also something strange. I've guitar partitions (no tab, only partitions) in abc and I use two voices (or more) because it's not possible to write chords with different note lengths in abc (like [E2A2c2e/] and unfortunately nobody seems to complain about this limitation), so it doesn't work well in Muse if I import the abc, but it's not the problem if I use a converted midi file. The problem is the tab should look like this : Gavotte 1 (R. de Visée) 2/2 ||--0---0-|-0-|--5---3-|-1-3-0---0---0-|-0-|| ||o-1-|-1--0-3-10-|-1--|-0-|-0o|| ||--2-|-2--2--1---|-2--2-0-|-2-0-1-|-1-|| ||--2-|---|-2--3---2---|-2---3---2-|-2-|| ||o---|---||---|--o|| |||---||---|---|| and it can display well in Muse, but after exportation to .tab ascii file, the chords are now arppegio : E---0-|---=---0-|-0-=---| B-1---|-=---=---|---1-0---3---1---=---0-| G---2-|---=---=-|-2-=---2---1---=---| D-2---|-=---=---|---| A-|-|---| E-|-|---| 5---=---3-|---1---3---0---=---0---0-| --1---|-0---| 2---2-0---|-2---0-1-| --2-3-=---2---=---|-2---=---3---2---| --|-| --|-| Maybe I missed an option ? The = for tied notes are not really relevant in an ascii tab. To have only the bare tab could be better (or to have the choice to get rid of the =). In fact it's still possible to replace with a text editor the = by - o so it's not a real problem. PowerTab is
Re: [abcusers] Anarchy
Yawn. Sigh. Look. If you think you are the only fellow allowed an opinion then you are crazy, so I'll presume that you don't think that and you agree that others can have theirs. That includes me. You are for ever (and it has got boring) quoting people out of context and misquoting people. Who ever wrote I want it my way and no other.. Nobody, right? You just made it up, right? I am right? You did just make that up?? Because at the moment I think *you* are the only person on the list who thinks that way. I hope to discover that I'm wrong and you don't. Now if I remember correctly (feel free to dig it up in the archives) my original quote was (from memory) close to we like it that way and reading this thread will reveal who 'we' are. You always leave that last part off. What I was saying (yawn) a long time ago was that this business of modes can be argued both ways, there are two sides to it and ultimately it comes down to a matter of opinion. I had (and still have) a particular opinion, and reading through the thread it was clear that several others had the same opinion. Some may like it this way, some may like it that way. Me, I like it *this* way. OK? It's an opinion? Am I entitled to it? YES I AM. Part of my musical upbringing was flamenco guitar where there are essentially three modes and about 4 keys. The keys are E, A, D and C and the modes are major, minor and Phrygian (OK tarantas is played in F# phrygian and, with a capo on fret 2 that's G#Phr - that's why I said about). To describe a phrygian piece as either minor or major is a travesty. It's not just wrong, it's ludicrous. You hear classical composers who write Spanish pieces that go Am G7 F E and should stop there (EPhry) but the poor fellow is clearly in a panic and desperately rushes back to the thing he knows, and glues a minor ending on. E7 Am (phew that was a close one!) The result is like a Vaughan Williams folk song. Song yes, folk, no. So I grew up thinking modes are important. Then I came across Irish music in Dorian and it's obviously a sort of minor but it obviously has its own character. Then there are those pieces in G with all the Fs naturals. And I could go on. So MY OPINION which is derived from my growing up is that modes matter and I don't want to see them go away. I'd rather see things notated as tonic+mode or even tonic and a bunch of accidentals than as a collection of sharps and flats. It's just my opinion. But I'm entitled to it. That is the way I like it. That is my opinion. It is in fact just that, a matter of opinion. I've read John Chambers arguments, but I'm still not convinced. (By the way I am convinced about multiple endings - those will happen in Muse when I get around to it. The abc support will probably come in even later, but I'm not arguing about what's wanted). The history of Muse was that I got fed up with trying to use some other packages and decided to write my own. The urgent need was the music (mainly English) that we played in the Spike Island Band. A lot of things were more important than modes so they weren't the first thing I did, but when they did get on to the wish-list they quickly made it to the top. I appreciate that you don't like it that way. You've said so often. That's your opinion. I suspect that your opinion was influenced by writing a converter to Noteworthy where you didn't have any obvious place to put the mode. (Did you stick it in as an annotation [I hope] or did you throw it away). No matter. I recall suggesting you got on to the Noteworthy guys and ask them to put them in. Maybe they are not that flexible. Well if so that's their problem or your problem, but not mine. But no matter whatever the reason for your opinion you are entitled to it. But understand that I, too am entitled to mine. I am actually allowed to like things a particular way, even if you don't. And I for one have never written I want it my way and no other. Laurie - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 6:58 PM Subject: [abcusers] Anarchy John Chambers wrote - Well, actually, last evening at this time I was playing music at a contra dance with some nice people. I'm delighted to hear it. Do all these nice people share the same self-centred I want it my way and no other. that you seem to think is completely standard human behavior? How do you ever agree on what tune to play? I think it was variants of the principle expressed recently here, that key+mode is more useful information than just the signature. It's only useful if it's right. A quick look at a few minor or modal tunes on your Tune Finder will show how often it's wrong. I've asked this question before and it was ignored - Why is it better to have Eminor tunes notated as K:G than as K:^F? Some musicians don't understand keys and modes, and just want to be told what notes to play. And other musicians play
Re: [abcusers] Muse
Actually I have to say that my original intention when producing Muse was to be able to produce music so that I could read it (I am not the best of sight-readers so it has to be fairly clear) and someone standing behind me reading over my shoulder could read it - because that happens in gigs sometimes). So when I had achieved that I lost interest in how pretty it looked. I have been greatly surprised by the number of people who really need it to look pretty. (Hey, guys! Isn't it the *sound* that matters?) Well fair enough, Muse2 looks prettier! I hope it will prove pretty enough. L. To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Intergalactic naming conventions.
... And the English think that English is the language that the English speak!! Laurie To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] iabc, and features expected in softwares in general
Ages ago Eric said programs should ... - follow the general convention for shortcuts (ctrl + c for copy, ctrl + a for select all etc.) I'm just looking at this in Muse. The problems is that a clip has a musical context described in Muse by Clef, Key signature, transpose, capo and accidentals (and ABC has most of these too and you can argue as to whether time-signature, tempo etc should be included). So if you want to cut and paste from the flute part to the clarinet part, you have to say whether you want to copy the musical intent or the text. Furthermore a snippet that is copying may alter the context for following notes (for instance it may include a K:) so that makes about 8 variants according to whether you want to * Copy the TEXT (ignoring the original context) or the MUSIC (in effect transposing the clip temporarily into the key of C with no inherited capo, transpose or accidentals) * Paste the TEXT or the MUSIC (in effect transposing the clip by the inverse of the new context and inserting naturals to undo anything done by the key signature or accidentals in the new context) * Ignore the consequences or PRESERVE the context - for instance pasting a ^C into a bar in K:G where there is another C later in the bar - should that new C now become =C? Unfortunately most of these options make sense some of the time. To copy the soprano part into the tenor part, I might copy and paste the text and the text inherits the new context (transposing down by one octave). To copy that into the clarinet part I want to paste the *music* and not the text. Likewise to copy out of the clarinet part into somewhere else. Should the default perhaps be to copy the music, paste the music and preserve the context? Laurie To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Intergalactic naming conventions.
Let's see; Scotland does have its own parliament now, but it doesn't have its own army or navy, so it must be a dialect (and an inferior one at that ;-). I'd better wait and see what Jack and Phil say - but there seem to me to be many Scotsmen that consider their variant of English a separate language (some of Burns poetry can be pretty impenetrable to us English). [How to tell if someone is Scottish - ask them are you Scotch? If you survive the encounter, they are not!] To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Question about rhythm notation
According to Gerou and Lusk in their Essential Dictionary of Music Notation, Because of the ease in reading of beams, the use of flags in vocal music - in relation to the lyric - has become obsolete. So I guess it's at least contentious. (Out of 161 pages they devote 12 whole pages to beams). I suppose I should add that I can merge two voices into a staff in Muse too, but I don't think it's normally a clever thing to do. You finish up with invisible rests and all sorts. Laurie - Original Message - From: Jack Campin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 3:42 PM Subject: Re: [abcusers] Question about rhythm notation The attitude that I take in Muse is that Muse does beaming automatically, so I disregard the beaming information in the ABC. I can argue both sides of this, but the argument for this action is that fundamentally ABC is about describing the music, not the printed page. Beaming is in the standard, though, and for vocal scores it does convey musical information; you beam notes that go on the same syllable, not otherwise. it seems to me that trying to express beaming in ABC in all but the simplest cases is impossible. For instance consider even [GB]A and I want the G and A to be beamed but the B to be a separate flag. Or if you think you can solve that one (perhaps [B G]A) then how about [BG] [AF] and I want the B to be beamed with the A, tails up and the G with the F, tails down. You can do those in BarFly by putting the notes with different stem directions into different voices and telling the program to merge them. Usually it works, but you can end up with some rather odd voices that way. And since there's no way to change the number in mid-tune, if you need five voices at any point of the tune they have to be there from beginning to end; this looks weird with some early music where chords are used only sporadically in a basically monophonic texture. I think you could represent any piano score in BarFly using 176 voices; two voices for each key, one for each stem direction. Like an ASCII player piano roll. You'd need an Apple Cinema Display to edit it. To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] The (illegal) sounds of silence
My recollection was that someone else started it but gave a transcription which did have silence, but did not have exactly the right length of silence. Whether it is 4'11 or 4'13 is clearly incredibly (sic) important and I do hope I didn't get the wrong one. Laurie - Original Message - From: Frank Nordberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 4:04 PM Subject: Re: [abcusers] The (illegal) sounds of silence Thomas Bending wrote: The Musica Viva version is presumably just a quote from the complete work... Don't blame me, I'm just the archivist. It was Laurie who posted the tune at abcusers - and Phil who did the proofreading. Here's the tune in question, btw: X:814 T:4'11 C:John Cage O:USA %http://www.musicaviva.com/abc/tunes/cage-john/4-11.abc %Posted Aug 9th 1999 at abcusers by Laurie Griffiths in an attempt to %introduce some serious music to the list. Proofread by Phil Taylor M:none Q:1/8=60 K:Abm z251|] Cheers Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] The (illegal) sounds of silence
I'm incredibly mortified. I apologise for my ignorance. Are all three movements the same length? Do they add up to 4'33 or is that the length of each? This is a real challenge for a player program. I presume that an authentic computer performance must come up with some sort of opening noise and make various beeps and burps as it opens various windows before each movement and then more animated noises as it closes things down at the end. Laurie - Original Message - From: Jack Campin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 05, 2002 2:01 PM Subject: Re: [abcusers] The (illegal) sounds of silence X:814 T:4'11 C:John Cage O:USA %http://www.musicaviva.com/abc/tunes/cage-john/4-11.abc %Posted Aug 9th 1999 at abcusers by Laurie Griffiths in an attempt to %introduce some serious music to the list. Proofread by Phil Taylor M:none Q:1/8=60 K:Abm z251|] Wrong, all wrong. Not only is it 4' 33, but a practical performance would be a bit longer; there are three movements, with the usual inter-movement things (tuning up, etc) between them. You have to use the P: construct or present it as three separate tunes. I've only seen it performed once, by the Whistlebinkies during Cage's visit to Glasgow in 1991. They did all the usual hoisting fiddle onto shoulders, tucking bagpipes in position and getting set with the bodhran stuff. If I remember right, they used a different placement of the players round the hall for each movement. It's about the right length to enter in a fiddle competition as a march, strathspey and reel set. === http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/ === To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] a request to talented programmers
Do you explicitly require that it plays music that is in NWC format? Laurie - Original Message - From: Guido Gonzato [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ABC users ML [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 10:22 AM Subject: [abcusers] a request to talented programmers hello, Windows users have this little gem called NoteWorthy Player (http://www.noteworthysoftware.com/player/), a brilliant MIDI player that also shows the music notation. AFAIK, such a tool is not available to Linux users, and an equivalent Windows program which is open source doesn't exist either. Isn't there a talented programmer who would like to write a program like this? Needless to say, it should also be able to save the music in ABC format. Ciao, Guido =8-) -- Guido Gonzato, Ph.D. guido . gonzato at univr . it - Linux System Manager Universita' di Verona (Italy), Facolta' di Scienze MM. FF. NN. Ca' Vignal II, Strada Le Grazie 15, 37134 Verona (Italy) Tel. +39 045 8027990; Fax +39 045 8027928 --- Timeas hominem unius libri To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Re: keys modes (was: tune finder)
I have to agree with Henrik. My experience is that many musicians (including some quite good ones who really ought to know better) do one of two things. They either say an Edor tune is in D (which is silly as it spends it's time flirting briefly with D and then homing back to E just as a piece in D will flirt with the notes in G and A7 chords and then home back to D), or else they say it's in E minor which is perhaps closer to the truth, but a piece in Em will typically find its way home via the note ^D and the chord B7, wheras a dorian tune will use D and arrive home with the non-classical chord pattern D Em. Laurie - Original Message - From: Henrik Norbeck [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... This is a confusion of key and mode. If, as in the original example, we have K:D %Edorian we don't have the right key! The right key is *not* D, it is two sharps or f# c# to be more precise. D means that the final (or tonal centre or whatever you want to call it) of the tune is the note D and the mode is ionian or major (which is the most common mode in western European music and therefore the default mode). They actually teach you wrong at school... To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Modes without the maths
Tonic is important because it says where the tune is going. Mode is important because it says how the tune is going to get there. If a tune is in an open key (no white notes on the harpsichord) then in the major (or Ionian) mode the obvious harmony is the three chord trick C, G7 and F. The final sequence will be G7 = C If it's in D dorian then you will hear Dm, C and very occasionally either G or Bm. the final sequence will be C = Dm If it's in E phrygian and is a flamenco piece (perhaps phrygian major) you'll hear a characteristic ending sequence of Am = G7 = Fmaj7 = E If it's in the minor phrygian then I haven't a clue and the same applies to F lydian. If it's in Gmix then you'll hear mainly G and F (Old Joe Clark) and the odd C, finishing with F = G. In A aeolian you'll hear Am, C, and maybe a G or F, probably ends G=Am but I'm not so sure about this one. If it's in A minor then you'll hear Am, E or E7, and the odd G, C or F, finishing E7=Am For B locrian I have no idea. As Robert Bley-Vroman wrote, it tells you what to shout to the guitarist. e.g. It's one of them Em-D tunes.. Contrast this with my Concise dictionary of music which says By the end of 17th cent. exclusive use of 2 modern modes, major and minor was established. (Clearly Old Joe Clark and Drowsy Maggie are simply wrong and need to be re-written properly). To summarise it so you can see it at a glance, here it is as a table. The final sequence is the first two chords in reverse order e.g. G7=C. K:Cmaj CG7 F K:Ddor Dm E (G, Bm) K:Ephr EFmaj7 G7 Am K:Gmix GF (C) K:Aaeo Am C (F G) K:Am Am E7(G C F) and in case you think that they look different just because they all have different tonics, here it is transposed to the same tonic: K:Cmaj CG7 F K:Cdor Cm Bb (F, Am) K:Cphr CDbmaj7 Eb7 Fm K:Cmix CBb (F) K:Caeo Cm Eb (Ab Bb) K:Cm Cm G7 (Bb Eb Ab) So, to repeat, the tonic tells you where the tune is going and the mode tells you how it's going to get there - the notes that are likely to turn up in the melody, the likely harmony and the likely harmony sequence. And you don't need any maths, you just need an ear for the music. It's pretty clear that some classically trained musicians have had that trained out of them. (Is it like Japanese not hearing the difference between an English L and an R?). John Chambers is of course correct, there are a lot more modes than this and some of them (Lydian, Phrygian minor and Locrian) are so rare that they might just as well have been treated as odd-balls and written out with accidentals. But to refer to a D-dor tune as D minor tells the guitarist to listen for C#-natural leading notes and the chance to play A7 chords. Bryan Creer had written: ...the ignorant peasants were perfectly capable of singing their songs without knowing anything about modes... That of course is stretching the phrase knowing anything about to breaking point. They knew the scales and they knew how to harmonise them. They just didn't know the Greek names. Shakespeare's Theorem applies: A mode by any other name will sound as sweet. Laurie To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Phrygian major
Well there are a few odd pieces that one or two list members have unearthed that seem to be really the Greek phrygian mode in that they resolve on to a chord which is a triad starting from the tonic. e.g. in EPhr that's E G B or an E minor chord. They know more than I do. I don't understand that stuff, but it seems different from what I know. Many flamenco pieces (e.g. soleares, tarantas, some bulerias and others too) are played in a phrygian mode in that the notes of the tune are almost exclusively in that scale, but they NEVER resolve onto E minor, but always onto E major. So the melody uses a G natural (OK, so the odd G sharp creeps in, but mainly they don't) but the harmony always sharpens it whenever the tonic chord comes in, and especially the final chord. So the final cadence is typically Am, G7, F maj7, E. Interestingly, classical composers who have been to spain and written a Spanish piece almost never do this. They get that far and then they feel it's unfinished and too uncomfortable and so they bolt for the minor by adding B A G# A or something on to the end of the melody to finish up in A minor. I suppose that to illustrate what I mean I need to supply a sample. The numbers after the semicolons are string numbers and you only have to look at the first bar with all those fs on the B string to see that they really do matter. Things that otherwise look like trills are actually arpeggios played as a sort of two-string tremolo - and it wanders up the neck a little later on. Don't try to play it on a melodion! You'll need to stitch the lines back together. X:0 T:To Anne Elizabeth C:Laurie Griffiths L:1/8 M:None K:EPhrj [K: transpose=-12]^D/;4^d/;2e/;1^d/;2 E/;4e/;2e/;1e/;2 F/;4f/;2e/;1f/;2 E,/;6e/;2e/;1e/;2 E/;4e/;2e/;1e/;2 E/;4e/;2e/;1e/;2 :|\ F/;4f/;2e/;1f/;2 G/;4f/;2e/;1f/;2 G/;4f/;2e/;1f/;2 F/;4f/;2e/;1f/;2 G/;4f/;2e/;1f/;2 G/;4f/;2e/;1f/;2 |\ F/;4f/;2e/;1f/;2 G/;4f/;2e/;1f/;2 F/;4f/;2e/;1f/;2 E,/;6e/;2e/;1e/;2 E/;4e/;2e/;1e/;2 E/;4e/;2e/;1e/;2 |\ F/;4f/;2a/;1f/;2 G/;4f/;2a/;1f/;2 B/;3f/;2a/;1f/;2 F/;4f/;2a/;1f/;2 G/;4f/;2a/;1f/;2 B/;3f/;2a/;1f/;2 |\ F/;4f/;2e/;1f/;2 G/;4f/;2e/;1f/;2 F/;4f/;2e/;1f/;2 E,/;6e/;2e/;1e/;2 E/;4e/;2e/;1e/;2 E/;4e/;2e/;1e/;2 |\ D/;4e/;2e/;1e/;2 E/;4e/;2e/;1e/;2 F/;4E/;4D/;4C/;5 B,/;5e/;2e/;1e/;2 C/;5e/;2e/;1e/;2 D/;5C/;5B,/;5A,/;5 |\ ^G,/;6e/;2e/;1e/;2 A,/;5e/;2e/;1e/;2 B,/;5A,/;5=G,/;6F,/;6 E,;6e;1 E;4e;1 E/;4e/;2e/;1e/;2 ||\ F/;4f/;2a/;1f/;2 G/;4f/;2a/;1f/;2 =G,3/2;6[f/;2 a/;1] ^F;4G;4 [f;2a;1]G;4 =G,3/2;6[f/;2 a/;1] |\ ^F;4G;4 [f;2a;1]G;4 [f;2a;1]=F;4 E,;6 (3^G/;3 B/;2 e/;1 E;4B;2 e2;1 ||\ A,/;5e/;1c/;2A/;3 E/;4A/;3c/;2e/;1 f/;1e/;1d/;2c/;2 G,/;6B/;2G/;3F/;4 B,/;5F/;4G/;3B/;2 c/;2B/;2A/;3G/;3 |\ F,/;6B/;2A/;3F/;4 C/;5F/;4A/;3B/;2 c/;2^c/;2d/;2^d/;2 E,;6e;1 E;4^G;3 B;2e;1 |\ A,/;6a/;1e/;2c/;3 A/;4c/;3e/;2a/;1 b/;1a/;1e/;2c/;3 G,/;6g/;1d/;2B/;3 G/;4B/;3d/;2g/;1 a/;1g/;1d/;2B/;3 |\ F,/;6f/;1c/;2A/;3 F/;4A/;3c/;2f/;1 g/;1f/;1c/;2A/;3 E,/;6e/;1B/;2^G/;3 E/;4^G/;3B/;2e/;1 f/;1^f/;1g/;1^g/;1 |\ (3[A,;6a;1]e;2c;3 (3A;4c;3e;2 (3c';1b;1a;1 (3[G,;6g;1]d;2B;3 (3G;4B;3d;2 (3b;1a;1g;2 |\ (3f;2c;3A;4 (3F;5A;4c;3 (3e;1f;2e;1 E,;6e;1 E;4^G;3 B;2e;1 |\ (3A,;5E;4A;3 (3c;2B;2A;3 (3c;2B;2A;3 (3G,;6B,;5F;4 (3B;2A;3G;3 (3B;2A;3G;3 |\ (3F,;6A,;5F;4 (3B;2A;3G;3 B/;2A/;3G/;3F/;4 E,;6e;1 E;4^G;3 B;2e;1 || Oh, all right - here you are without the strings numbers! X:0 T:To Anne Elizabeth C:Laurie Griffiths L:1/8 M:None K:EPhrj [K: transpose=-12]^D/^d/e/^d/ E/e/e/e/ F/f/e/f/ E,/e/e/e/ E/e/e/e/ E/e/e/e/ :|\ F/f/e/f/ G/f/e/f/ G/f/e/f/ F/f/e/f/ G/f/e/f/ G/f/e/f/ |\ F/f/e/f/ G/f/e/f/ F/f/e/f/ E,/e/e/e/ E/e/e/e/ E/e/e/e/ |\ F/f/a/f/ G/f/a/f/ B/f/a/f/ F/f/a/f/ G/f/a/f/ B/f/a/f/ |\ F/f/e/f/ G/f/e/f/ F/f/e/f/ E,/e/e/e/ E/e/e/e/ E/e/e/e/ |\ D/e/e/e/ E/e/e/e/ F/E/D/C/ B,/e/e/e/ C/e/e/e/ D/C/B,/A,/ |\ ^G,/e/e/e/ A,/e/e/e/ B,/A,/=G,/F,/ E,e Ee E/e/e/e/ ||\ F/f/a/f/ G/f/a/f/ =G,3/2[f/ a/] ^FG [fa]G =G,3/2[f/ a/] |\ ^FG [fa]G [fa]=F E, (3^G/B/e/ EB e2 ||\ A,/e/c/A/ E/A/c/e/ f/e/d/c/ G,/B/G/F/ B,/F/G/B/ c/B/A/G/ |\ F,/B/A/F/ C/F/A/B/ c/^c/d/^d/ E,e E^G Be |\ A,/a/e/c/ A/c/e/a/ b/a/e/c/ G,/g/d/B/ G/B/d/g/ a/g/d/B/ |\ F,/f/c/A/ F/A/c/f/ g/f/c/A/ E,/e/B/^G/ E/^G/B/e/ f/^f/g/^g/ |\ (3[A,a]ec (3Ace (3c'ba (3[G,g]dB (3GBd (3bag |\ (3fcA (3FAc (3efe E,e E^G Be |\ (3A,EA (3cBA (3cBA (3G,B,F (3BAG (3BAG |\ (3F,A,F (3BAG B/A/G/F/ E,e E^G Be || You must play it in such a way that the notes ring on long after their strict note value says they should have ended (because that's what guitars do and it's lunacy to try to notate it other than saying guitar). For anyone who wants to try to play it on a guitar, it's tuned in standard EADGBE and has enough stretches and awkwardnesses that it's not for beginners. Incidentally I hope nobody pours this into Muse and back out again as it has unearthed some bugs in Muse ABC output (one of which is quite embarrassing). I've written is as essentially 6/8 but it really should be thought of as 12/8 with a stress pattern that goes | - - * - - * - * - * - - | (so that's
Re: [abcusers] Modes without the maths
John Chambers wrote ...That phrygian major sounds a lot like what the people to the south and east of Spain call hejaz and klezmer musicians call freygish. Phrygian with a raised 3rd ... Yes. In Ephr, the ^G from the E major in the harmony creeps into the tune now and again. But for most flamenco pieces there are many more =Gs than ^Gs. In particular the final Soleares sequence is inevitably something like a2 g2 fff2 f2 E2 with no ^gs in the melody. Laurie To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC software in reference libraries
Actually Muse isn;t locked up quite that badly - it will turn ABC into tadpoles on the screen. What it won't do is play or print. Maybe I should make Muse2 so that it will *play* ABC for free. (It's a one-line change so I may be able to find the time). L. - Original Message - From: Jack Campin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 11:01 PM Subject: [abcusers] ABC software in reference libraries I gave a copy of my CD-ROM to the National Library of Scotland. They said, great, can we have six of them please? This because they're part of the legal-deposit system in the UK, including others like the Mitchell, the Bodleian and the British Library. They also gave me the darnedest form, intended to deal with deposits of non-print media, which covered a whole lot of questions I hadn't thought about at all. Electronic media are not formally covered by legal deposit, it's all voluntary contributions; since the whole thing would have been impossible without the NLS's help, I certainly owe them this. One question they asked was what sort of access I'd prefer. There are three grades of access: single-user at a workstation, single-user over their internal network, and open access (any number of users, maybe offsite). They suggested the middle one: it means the CD stays in the stacks rather than in the none-too-gentle hands of J. Random User - probably means disks are loaded manually by librarians for the most part, though perhaps they have a carousel or permanent mounting for popular items. The harder one was hardware/software requirements. How long is a piece of string? You can read the text of the CD with Lynx. You can do that and also look at the scores with the HTML Viewer application on the Mac, which runs in 1 Mb of memory on System 7.1 (might even work on a Mac Plus, I'll check that). Probably on something similarly spartan for DOS or Unix. Listening to the MIDI or QuickTime files takes a good bit more computing power, but it's standard stuff; install IE 5 on any machine that will let you and you've got something that will basically work. Which leaves the ABC files. You don't *need* to look at those to make sense of the CD, but it helps, particularly as most of the bibliographic data and documentation of my editorial interventions is in them. So it would be nice to have ABC applications on the CD that could be run over the network. BarFly can almost do that (needs to sidestep that loopy pre-X MacOS practice of storing individuals' config data in the System Folder, which should be write-protected in any sensible public-space installation), but isn't ideal since there are few Macs in the NLS and none in easily accessible places. I don't know what machines the other legal-deposit libraries offer to the public, but Windows would seem to be a good bet. But note, I *can't* expect librarians to install and configure specialized software. I'm thinking of making a special reference library edition of the thing, with software included to do something meaningful with the ABC. The retail version won't do; it only has a locked-until-you-pay-up version of Muse on it which gives you no idea of ABC's potential. Would software implementors out there be prepared to let me have fully working versions of their programs to include on these six CDs, set up so they can run over a network off a CD and assuming no write permissions at all on client machines? The libraries guarantee that nobody gets to download anything, and printing can be limited to whatever I specify, so nobody's going to get pirated from this. For Unix, we have a can of worms because of the range of platforms out there - I don't think you can even expect Intel Linux binaries to work across two different releases because of hard-coded paths, and trying to make something multi-platform for all of Linux on Intel and PPC, FreeBSD on Alphas, Solaris on Sparcs, Darwin etc would be a nightmare. Perhaps only Java-based solutions like Skink make sense for that. No need for any PostScript generators, since nobody's going to be printing anything, and some other kinds of ABC application are equally irrelevant to this situation. I don't recall any precedent for people putting software in libraries under legal deposit. This is a kinda sneaky way of doing exactly that. Gotta be a first time. === http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/ === To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Re : suggestions for [A4A2] notation
I've been transcribing choruses of The Messiah. The voices are of course monophonic, but piano accompaniments have all sorts of nasties. I have found that shortest note determines when next note starts works well. You can always add a rest or two if that's not what you wanted. Laurie - Original Message - From: Phil Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 3:50 PM Subject: Re: [abcusers] Re : suggestions for [A4A2] notation Bryan Creer wrote: Henrik Norbeck wrote - The alternatives highest note and first-listed note will cause problems, because they make it impossible to have chords with different note lengths, which breaks a lot of fiddle music, see example below. Obviously highest note wouldn't work for your example (Abacus makes a mess of it) but I don't see why first-listed note couldn't work. Two of your mixed length chords are already arranged that way and [d8D7] could be rewritten [D7d8]. Using first-listed note seems to be the only method that makes no assumptions about the music. None of the assumptions that the shortest, longest or highest note is the melody note is necessarily true. I'm inclined to agree with Bryan here. I haven't paid much attention to this previously (it's not common in abc tunes, and I've never wanted to do it in any of my own transcriptions). Using the first-listed note is certainly the most flexible rule, and leaves the decision up to the transcriber. Now that I've come to look at what BarFly actually does with unequal chords I find that I've been quite inconsistent. While the player does what I said previously (takes the longest note as the length of the chord), if you have an unequal chord in one voice of a multi-voice abc, the notes get aligned using the length of the first-listed note. Maybe I'll change the player to match that. Henrik wrote: X:1 T:Målargubbens brudpolska That's one hell of an abc tune! I think I'll add that to my file of test tunes for torturing programs with. BarFly doesn't like the tie between non-contiguous notes (or rather, it doesn't recognise the notes as being contiguous), but if that is removed it displays OK. What it plays is not correct. Does abcMus play it correctly? Phil Taylor To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Re : suggestions for [A4A2] notation
Laurie: I've been transcribing choruses of The Messiah. Phil: If you're doing something that complicated you have to be using multiple voices anyway...to represent the two hands unambiguously. Well Muse has a serious problem in using multiple voices for a piano part. (I would guess Bryan's Noteworthy to ABC converter would have the same problem). The problem is how do you decide what counts as a voice? This is from near the end of His Yoke is easy and his Burthen is light. I've simplified it a tiny bit - it's really in 4/4 and the [c4 e4] tie over into the next bar. X:0 T:Example L:1/8 M:None K:Bflat%(no mode given)% % shortest note in chord dictates start of next [F2 B2 d/]e/f [_A2 B2 f4] [G3 B2] [c4 e4] FE There is no way that Muse could reasonably figure out what is a voice. There is actually a bit of the soprano line, slightly distorted, the contralto line running down through it a few odd notes from the orchestra and a couple of notes an octave above the tenors, but who cares? The line is intended to give enough of a sketch of what's going on for a chorus to practice against before they start shelling out their hard-earned on an expensive orchestra. Also, by the way, I have little interest in the fact that the average pianist has just under two hands or which notes are to be played with which, though others might. Laurie To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Re : suggestions for [A4A2] notation
Is it legal abc to have a rest in a chord? For instance: X:0 T:Example L:1/8 M:4/2 K:G [zG8 B8 d8]gfe dcBA G8 Failing that we really do need the number on the end like X:1 T:Example L:1/8 M:4/2 K:G [G8 B8 d8]1gfe dcBA G8 Note that one might need single note chords with a length. This leads to interesting things (Bach's prelude no.1 comes to mind) like X:2 T:Example L:1/8 M:4/2 K:G [C,8]1[C7]1[E6]1[G5]1 [c4]1[e3]1[g2]1c Can someone explain why first note determines length is better than shortest determines length. A counter example that doesn;t work the other way would be nice, especially if it were not contrived. Laurie To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Re : suggestions for [A4A2] notation
Muse as released does *not* use the shortest note wins rule. In fact it's pretty restrictive which can make it a pain for keyboard users. At the moment I'm doing a major rewrite (called Muse2) which is aimed at 1. Choral singers (better control over playback - done) 2. Keyboard players (live Midi in and all this polyphony stuff) 3. Singer songwriters (better lyrics stuff) plus a host of smaller things. In fixing the restrictions on within-staff, within-voice polyphony - and in particular in trying to type in various keyboard parts (The Messiah being the biggest) I found that the rule that seemed to work was shortest note wins. So that is the rule used within the body of Muse2. I chose it because it seemed to work. The worst that can happen is that you have to pad out one of the unnamed voices with a rest. i.e. [D4G]zFE D4. I can tolerate a different rule for ABC input and output from that within the body of Muse2. Output is easy I could just sort the chords to be shortest-first. Input is a little trickier, I'd have to invent that z. But I'm not particularly convinced that it's a good idea. I do have some sympathy with the first note is the melody idea - and we can't have both. I had a few complaints (actually very few) about the severe restriction in Muse (Muse-1 that is). It insisted that all notes within a chord be the same length and required that you either essentially ignored when the notes ended (as apparently Bach did because his prelude No.1 is written out as all quavers but he used to hold all the notes down when he played it) or else write it all out with ties (which can look pretty bad on the page). Laurie To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Re : suggestions for [A4A2] notation
Bryan wrote I know you've been away Laurie but this has been discussed at some length for over a week now. A variety of people have given their reasons and examples. Perhaps if you would care to read the whole thread you could come up with specific reasons why you disagree and why you think shortest determines length is better. I did read the whole thread. I saw suggestions for 1. highest note prevails - but this is broken and was abandoned. 2. first note prevails with Jack Campin immediately saying but the semantics I'd need in every instance where I've wanted it would be that the *shortest* note counts. 3. shortest prevails The Rapunsel example from Eric Forgeot seemed to require this 4. None of these (Phil: Using unequal notes in chords just leads to too many ambiguities). A reply from Bryan saying Noteworthy Composer does it... but not saying what rule Noteworthy uses. Care to tell us? What rule does Noteworthy Composer use to determine when the next note starts after a mixed chord? John Chambers voted for first-note prevails Henrik voted for shortest prevails and gave an example of a fiddle tune (Målargubbens brudpolska) which requires shortest prevails. Toni Schilling suggested a length on the end [c4e]2 which seems to have caused confusion as some people thought that ought to mean c8e2. Bryan said 'the default behaviour without a following number would need to be the first-listed note but did not explain his reasoning - seems to me that shortest prevails works best. AbcMus implements shortest prevails Jack Campin floated absorptive ties. Bryan said I think it needs to be recognised that the [...] construct isn't going to cover all possibilities. Anything more complex will need separate voices, possibly combined on one staff. but did not produce any counter example to demonstrate the point. John Chambers said There is a lot of abc that would give strange results from the shortest-note rule.. and at that point I got back from Sidmouth and joined in. There have been two examples given (Rapunsel and Målargubbens brudpolska) both of which were shortest prevails. The most powerful argument for first prevails is John's there's a lot of ABC that needs it. Some idea of just how much would help. It seems to me that 99% or ABC falls into the two categories of no written-out chords at all or all notes in a chord are the same length. The printed piano music that I have seen seems to reply on shortest prevails (it often also uses beams and other layout clues to connect up notes into voices but when these fail it falls back on shortest wins). To do something different in ABC is liable to cause confusion. Although it is true that ABC is a language in its own right, it's liable to cause confusion when it is needlessly different from staff notation. I'm still in favour of shortest. Laurie To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Re : suggestions for [A4A2] notation
[shrug] Well he asked for examples... - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I can't be bothered to argue the minutiae... To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Re : suggestions for [A4A2] notation
How is that supposed to look and sound? Muse makes it look and sound funny. There is a slur mark on every note, caused by those () did you mean []? And they are funny slurs because they just perch on one note rather than combining several (because the other thing in the slur is invisible). It plays sounding (roughly) like A2 B2 z c2 d2 z which would mean that I had x and y back to front (neither are visible but I'm treating y as a real rest and x just for spacing). Should I be fixing this?? Laurie - Original Message - From: Jack Campin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 10:35 AM Subject: Re: [abcusers] Re : suggestions for [A4A2] notation something else that's common in piano and guitar music: a hanging tie to the right of a note that means Let this note sound for an unspecified time. There's no way that I know to say this in abc at present. It's yet another way that keyboard and guitar music is the worst case for music notation. Using BarFly's invisible rests you can do this: X:1 T:test M:none K:C (A2x) (B2y) (c2x) (d2y)|| x is played as a rest but not printed, y is purely there to occupy some horizontal space in the staff notation (i.e. it's really a hack to get round problems occasionally created by BarFly's note spacing algorithms, but probably all staff-notation generators will need such a hack at times, albeit no two in the same places). Which you'd want depends on the context. - Jack Campin * 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland tel 0131 660 4760 * fax 0870 055 4975 * http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/ food intolerance data recipes, freeware Mac logic fonts, and Scottish music To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] mail-archive.com, the spammer's friend
I apparently am now on my way to earning a PhD in 8 months. Cool! :-) 8 months is far too long for a PhD! I've had many offers of instant ones. I'm hanging out for a D Phil. Meanwhile I shall making a fortune stuffing envelopes and taking part in 100% legal pyramid selling schemes, cancelling all my debts on-line while I watch, and receiving (USA!) government grants that I never need to repay. I was going to spend some of it on Over 250 MILLION Email Addresses for Sale from US$2 up or perhaps 14.5 MILLION OPT-IN EMAIL ADDRESSES, but they all turned out to be aliases for John Chambers. Laurie To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Over the rainbow
Curious. Did these work in the abc software you put them together in? (How's that for a split infinitive?) Actually that is not a split infinitive. You don't need to really bother about them though. Some authorities on English (e.g. Fowler) say that people make fools of themselves trying to not split them and allowing them to just be split is fine. Laurie To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Four-stringed banjos (was: Music Notation)
Frank wrote ... I bought ... a ... banjo tears ago... Wonderful!! I know that t and y are keyboard neighbours but I like to imagine it was a Freudian slip. Laurie To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] The symbol and abc2midi
Muse has the concept of a performance MIDI file or an exchange MIDI file. The implementation is nothing too special, but I think this concept is the right way to go. For instance, in an exchange MIDI file all the notes will be exactly the lengths that you'd expect from looking at the dots (e.g. if a hornpipe is notated even and played dotted then the notes in the exchange file are even). Laurie - Original Message - From: Frank Nordberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 5:56 AM Subject: Re: [abcusers] The symbol and abc2midi Phil Taylor wrote: You've got BarFly, which can create MIDI itself, so why do you need to bother with abc2midi? BarFly creates midi by first making a QT movie, then using Quicktime to convert that to midi. Since Quicktime has no notion of key, time signature or even what length of notated note corresponds to a given duration, the resulting midi causes untold pain to music notation programs, although it plays beautifully. That's right. BarFly makes some of the best automatically created midi files there are for playback, but they're completely useless for conversion purposes. Something else I'm going to fix soon... Great, as long as you remember not to throw the baby out with the bathwater! Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers]Any french from Quebec
Si vous vous interessez en l'Zchange des tounes en ABC, soit QuZbZcois ou non, faites le ici! Vous connaissez le tune finder do John Chambers? http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/music/abc/FindTune.html Ca peut vous etre utile. [If you are interested in swapping tunes in ABC, whether quebecois or not, do it here! You know JC's tune finder? url that might be useful for you.] Laurie (qui est Anglais). - Original Message - From: Sauve Phil [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 9:43 PM Subject: Re: [abcusers]Any french from Quebec Is there any french from Quebec on the list ? Y a t-il des QuZbZcois sur la liste Si oui, manifestez-vous afin de constituer un groupe d'Zchange de nos tounes Phil SauvZ _ MSN Search, le moteur de recherche qui pense comme vous ! http://search.msn.fr/worldwide.asp To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abc drum notation and abc2ps
If it didn't have to be ABC you could use Muse http://www.musements.co.uk/muse which has X, diamond, square or ellipse. However if you then save as ABC that information would not be included in the file. Laurie. - Original Message - From: Guido Gonzato [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: abcusers [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [abcusers] abc drum notation and abc2ps On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, Christopher Myers wrote: 1) Can I use an X for a note head? no, unless you redefine the PostScript code that draws noteheads. If you can't do it yourself, I may consider experimenting - but don't hold your breath. 2) Can I put multiple slashes across the stem of a note? (I think that's no, unless you write an ad-hoc PostScript routine. As above... 3) Can I render a grace note without the tie? (That's a 'flam'). yes, using the %%graceslurs 0 command in the ABC source, or the -G 0 switch in the abcm2ps command line. I'm sure there are other things too, but those are the biggies the Drum Sergeant came up with last night. Thanks in advance! that's all right. Ciao, Guido =8-) -- Guido Gonzato, Ph.D. guido . gonzato at univr . it - Linux System Manager Universita' di Verona (Italy), Facolta' di Scienze MM. FF. NN. Ca' Vignal II, Strada Le Grazie 15, 37134 Verona (Italy) Tel. +39 045 8027990; Fax +39 045 8027928 --- Timeas hominem unius libri To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Muse2 - pre-announcement, call for ideas
Muse2 is now in the final stages, (about three months late). I hope to get it finished this week. Still to go are some fixes for bugs that I found as I was writing the on-line Help and the Registration mechanism. So I am deciding what should be free and what should need paying for. The following are in the plan: Reading ABC and Printing it are free. 30 days free trial with all functions enabled Saving files, playing files - you pay for. Given that most of Muse is concerned with a GUI that makes it very easy to create music, that is serious crippling. If you apply any tweaks to make ABC print nicely (fix the spacing, the marings etc.) there will be no way to save those either (and any line beginning %%abc2ps will obviously be ignored). The price will be £25 (that's about $40 US), but £10 for those who bought Muse. I am open to suggestions. (However suggestions that imply that there is no need for me to get paid will not be treated seriously unless they include practical means of getting the electricity and other bills paid and obtaining food and clothing without the need for money). Laurie To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Multiple Cords for 1 note
If you really want it spelled out for a player program then you write it with ties: G7cBAB |1 Cc2-Fc2-Cc4 :|2 Cc2-Fc2-Cc4 |] You have to decide whether you are writing for a machine or writing for a human. (The former is a bit of a mugs game - done far too much of it and they never say thank you). Laurie - Original Message - From: Frank Nordberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 2:34 AM Subject: Re: [abcusers] Multiple Cords for 1 note Jeremy Cowgar wrote: I am curious how to enter multiple chords for one note in ABC format. Here is a very small sample of my ABC file: R:4/4 L:1/8 G7cBAB |1 Cc8 :|2 Cc8 |] Now, what I want is: G7cBAB |1 CFCc8 :|2 CFCc8 |] The c8 is a whole note obviously, but I want to break the whole note accompanyment into three chords. Can that be done? Well, yes - in a way, What you do is that you include all the chord symbols for a single note within one pair of 's like this: G7cBAB |1 C F Cc8 :|2 C F Cc8 |] Then you can use multiple spaces between the chord symbols to get the alignement you want. Crude, but it works. Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Muse2 for Linux? (was: pre-announcement)
Alas, no still Win32 only - (and that has taken me till 1am most nights, maybe this is what these new drug developments like provigil are for...?) Laurie - Original Message - From: Rick Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 11:52 AM Subject: [abcusers] Muse2 for Linux? (was: pre-announcement) Will Muse2 be runnable under Linux? With sound? I'm one of those rare folk who like to run Linux but who is also willing to *pay* for good software. Paying my own bills that way probably counts as a bias. ;-) So I'm wondering whether I'll be able to get Muse2 for Linux, and whether paying *once* will be enough. Or maybe it'll run under the Windows emulator (wine)? -Rick To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Goodbye
...So please respect my right to be grumpy, anti-social, selfish and bitter. Yep. All the best anyway. Once at a crisis point in my life I got an email from an Indian friend who said always remember that some of Gods greatest gifts come in the form of unanswered prayers. Laurie To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Muse2 - pre-announcement, call for ideas
Thanks for your thoughts. My current thinking is to just disable save, which would indeed give you what you want. It looks like I will be implementing this Saturday so I just have some time for some last minute thoughts and changes of mind [looks at clock - oh, it *is* Saturday - well, after I've had some sleep is what I meant]. Thanks for your thoughts. Jeesh, they could even use the Muse2 invent some chords to go along with this melody to harmonise Edinburgh (sorry, Embro) street cries! Laurie - Original Message - From: Jack Campin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 6:25 PM Subject: Re: [abcusers] Muse2 - pre-announcement, call for ideas Muse2 is now in the final stages [...] So I am deciding what should be free and what should need paying for. The following are in the plan: Reading ABC and Printing it are free. 30 days free trial with all functions enabled Saving files, playing files - you pay for. From the viewpoint of what I want to include bundled with my CD-ROM: the idea would be to provide the user with (1) something useful they can't do without the ABC source and (2) some idea of what they might be able to do if they paid. Given my GIFs and sound files, they can already print and play music without going near ABC, let alone Muse's native features, so whether you include printing doesn't matter. What I *would* like is the ability to display on-screen and play back tunes after being manipulated by Muse, in particular after transposing them (for singers whose voices don't fit the keys I've provided). If people want to save the transpositions, they can pay. === http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/ === To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
