Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (REAL LONG)
Roll, you're a lunatic. But I'll concede the real reason I've declined to set Uncle Tupelo on a pedestal and worship at their feet is the way they used to play rock songs. They'd get going, I'd get into the swing of things, and then they'd pull off one of those annoying stops, and then starts, and then stops, and then starts. Shit, I like my music to keep on rolling, and those guys were playing games with my ears. So there you have it. The rest of my over-intellectualizing pedantry -- advancing the stunning notion that UT fits into a continuum of music, and doesn't stand above folks like Lucinda, Dave Alvin, Neil Young, Doug Sahm, where alternative forms of country music are concerned -- is just pissiness brought on by having to stay home with the kids on -- yet another -- snow day. Now I've got to go out and intellectualize with a snow shovel. -- Terry Smith
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (REAL LONG)
Excerpts from internet.listserv.postcard2: 9-Mar-99 Re: Tweedy quote/alt.countr.. by "Terry A. Smith"@seorf.O But I'll concede the real reason I've declined to set Uncle Tupelo on a pedestal and worship at their feet is the way they used to play rock songs. They'd get going, I'd get into the swing of things, and then they'd pull off one of those annoying stops, and then starts, and then stops, and then starts. I dug that wish Farrar would do it more now. Carl Z. snowbound
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country
stuart wrote: I happened to catch Man in the Sand (the film about making Mermaid Avenue) on BBC, Whoa. Is this available anywhere here in the US? Off-list replies are fine if y'all discussed this to death while I was hiding. Dave, who is still laughing over having just heard new Cincinnati transplant Mojo Nixon on the radio, singing a song about Princess Di... *** Dave Purcell, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Northern Ky Roots Music: http://w3.one.net/~newport Twangfest: http://www.twangfest.com
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (REAL LONG)
Actually as absurd as this is gonna sound, you are not really the pedant/intellectualizing type Terry. I am sorry. You did manage to get a little condescension in there in my opinion, but ultimately your initial post had a bit too much passion. I am sorry. g -jim On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Terry A. Smith wrote: Roll, you're a lunatic. But I'll concede the real reason I've declined to set Uncle Tupelo on a pedestal and worship at their feet is the way they used to play rock songs. They'd get going, I'd get into the swing of things, and then they'd pull off one of those annoying stops, and then starts, and then stops, and then starts. Shit, I like my music to keep on rolling, and those guys were playing games with my ears. So there you have it. The rest of my over-intellectualizing pedantry -- advancing the stunning notion that UT fits into a continuum of music, and doesn't stand above folks like Lucinda, Dave Alvin, Neil Young, Doug Sahm, where alternative forms of country music are concerned -- is just pissiness brought on by having to stay home with the kids on -- yet another -- snow day. Now I've got to go out and intellectualize with a snow shovel. -- Terry Smith
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country
stuart wrote: I happened to catch Man in the Sand (the film about making Mermaid Avenue) on BBC, Whoa. Is this available anywhere here in the US? Off-list replies are fine if y'all discussed this to death while I was hiding. Dave Purcell I happened to be in England the same time as Stuart--and caught most of that same show late at night, wide awake post-jet lag...and yeah, it certainly showed pieces of antagonism (and apparent reconciliation) between the Bragg and Tweedy camps--and there seem to have been camps.. I know this has been shown nowhere in the US yet, Senor Purcell--but I got the impression from the credits (was it one of those Channel 4/AE coproductions?) that there were some Yanks involved in the thing, and that it would almost cerrainly show up here. I'd guess you can watch for it on big city PBS stations (and then others) during Rich Lefty Pledge Week; they've finally got something to show besides that Weavers film! Barry
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (REAL LONG)
Fair enough, Todd. The most interesting aspect of this thread for me was seeing the residual (but powerful) respect and support for UT et al that exists on this list. I'm surprised, I guess, because whenever there's a sort of reflexive dismissal of the alt.country field -- many of whose bands were inspired by UT et al -- we're likely to see not a peep of protest or argument. The suggestion that "skill" is something that's solidly on the country side of the tracks sometimes goes unchallenged, too. I'd just like to see more sturdy debate from the rock side of things, rather than allowing the "country side" have the field. Me, of course, I'm on the polka side of the tracks! -- Terry Smith nr(reading): Robert Harris' "Archangel" about the modern-day discovery of Stalin's secret heir, living like a hermit in the woods near the White Sea. Great novel. So, was J. Stalin worse than Hitler?
RE: Tweedy quote/alt.country (REAL LONG)
The suggestion that "skill" is something that's solidly on the country side of the tracks... Uh-oh, time for some clarification, or maybe backtracking g. I don't think I've argued that skill (why the quotes?) is something that's solidly on the country side of the tracks; I have argued, and I think there's plenty of evidence to support it, that craft is respected and valued in the country tradition in ways that it seems not to be, or at least not as much, elsewhere. One indicator, though not the only one, is the persistence of instrumental pieces in the country tradition, especially in bluegrass, cajun, old-time and other forms, though it can still be found in the mainstream, even today. Yes, they're often (though far from always) dance-related, but even so, recognition of and admiration for the musicians' abilities to just play well (as opposed to expressing particular emotions or thoughts) are important elements in the appreciation of these. I'd be hard-pressed to think of examples of instrumentals in the alt.country field that don't fall pretty clearly into the out-of-classic-country stream, rather than the, er, UT-and-before-and-after one. Jon Weisberger Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger/
instrumentally speaking (was Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (REAL LONG))
Excerpts from internet.listserv.postcard2: 9-Mar-99 RE: Tweedy quote/alt.countr.. by "Jon Weisberger"@fuse.ne I'd be hard-pressed to think of examples of instrumentals in the alt.country field that don't fall pretty clearly into the out-of-classic-country stream, rather than the, er, UT-and-before-and-after one. One problem I see with your logic, Jon, is that much of the rock side of alt.country's influences (especially the punk artists), for whatever reason, don't include many instrumentals. Bands influenced by the Clash, the Sex Pistols, and the Velvet Ungerground tend to sing (or shout), because vocals are essential to their music. Having said that, Victor Krummenacher's past two records each feature a nice instrumental -- the one on his last album owes a bit to Fleetwood Mac's "Albatross". The Sadies have a few on their album (I think the surf influence has a lot to do with it -- Alex, can you think of other surf-influenced alt.country types?), and Pinetop Seven's been known to do one or two. The Waco's did Geronimo on their first record. But these are atypical examples. Waiting to see mention of a Greg Ginn-influenced Western Swing instrumental band, Carl Z.
Stalin WAS: Tweedy quote/alt.country (REAL LONG)
Terry wonders: nr(reading): Robert Harris' "Archangel" about the modern-day discovery of Stalin's secret heir, living like a hermit in the woods near the White Sea. Great novel. So, was J. Stalin worse than Hitler? Stalin said something like, "One murder is a tragedy. One million murders is a statistic." By dint of numbers and time spent in complete control, I'd say Stalin was worse. But once dictators pass a certain threshold of being an abomination, is it possible to quantify these things? Kelly
Re: instrumentally speaking (was Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (REAL LONG))
Sez Carl: One problem I see with your logic, Jon, is that much of the rock side of alt.country's influences (especially the punk artists), for whatever reason, don't include many instrumentals. Bands influenced by the Clash, the Sex Pistols, and the Velvet Ungerground tend to sing (or shout), because vocals are essential to their music. Sez Jon: That's my point. Even hedged with all kinds of qualifications, I think it's fair to say that in general, where vocals are essential, there's an orientation toward communicating emotions, ideas, etc., and technique and, well, skill - at least instrumental - are more than occasionally seen as, at best, irrelevant to that. See, now, and I thought the whole *point* of punk was to *not* be able to play well. I am not being facetious here. I thought the general punk stance was "F**k this elitist, bourgeois, closed music system. We're gonna play even though we don't know how, and maybe that'll turn the world of music on its ear, and even if it doesn't we'll have a good time with our mates making a whole lot of noise. Being all tied up in technique and knowing how to play is for wankers. Tear up everything." Why have instrumentals if it's important not to be one of those wankers who know how to play? Kelly, ready to have her simplistic understanding of punk adjusted NPIMH "All I Am Is Loving You" by The Teardrop Explodes
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (REAL LONG)
Terry Smith: nr(reading). Great novel. So, was J. Stalin worse than Hitler? Well, Stalin liked sports; Hitler liked music. It bent these men a little, positively bent them. Barry (These are the wages of synthesis.)
RE: Stalin WAS: Tweedy quote/alt.country (REAL LONG)
-Original Message- From: William F. Silvers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Good question. And I'd agree with you that Stalin was indeed worse than Hitler, though certainly they're both waaay past that "threshold" you mention. Had this discussion off-list with another P2er awhile back. Hmm. g I'd assert that both were the most evil monsters in human history and leave ranking them out of it. One must not forget that adorable tyrant, Pol Pot. He belongs in the same league as the two mentioned above by Bill. rebecca
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (REAL LONG)
Barry Mazor wrote: Terry Smith: nr(reading). Great novel. So, was J. Stalin worse than Hitler? Well, Stalin liked sports; Hitler liked music. It bent these men a little, positively bent them. Barry (These are the wages of synthesis.) Yeah but was Stalin the Tweedy fan and Hitler the Farrar fan, or vice versa? Or did Hitler think that UT were the progenitors of alt-country, while Stalin asserted that it was a decades old form that was not being duly recognized as such by the UT fans, or vice versa? Or... totalitarianism, the original alt-country? g b.s.
Re: instrumentally speaking (was Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (REAL LONG))
Excerpts from internet.listserv.postcard2: 9-Mar-99 RE: instrumentally speaking.. by "Jon Weisberger"@fuse.ne The Sadies have a few on their album (I think the surf influence has a lot to do with it... Not to mention the bluegrass/country one g, which I'm reminded of because there was a fairly recent inquiry about the Good Brothers over on bgrass-l. True. I offer surf for a reason, as it is an instrumentally-based style of rock. Off the top of my head, I can't think of many twang bands who incorporate surf other than the Sadies (though I haven't heard Jimmy Wilsey's new band yet). Does anyone on this list play music in the style of Dick Dale? For that matter, can anyone think of a twangy band influenced by Camper Van Beethoven's trippy instrumentals? As for technical proficiency, I think David nailed that one on the head. Johnny Ramone's musical vocabulary, while small, is not limiting he does a lot with a few chords. Few Ramones songs could be called instrumentals, though they aren't exactly wordy. Carl Z. fave Ramones song: Warthog.
Re: instrumentally speaking (was Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (REAL LONG))
In a message dated 3/9/99 3:02:04 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: True. I offer surf for a reason, as it is an instrumentally-based style of rock. Off the top of my head, I can't think of many twang bands who incorporate surf other than the Sadies (though I haven't heard Jimmy Wilsey's new band yet). Does anyone on this list play music in the style of Dick Dale? I think only Dick Dale does Dick Dale, but Junior Brown did a pretty mean surf medley on Semi-Crazy. Joe X. Horn Pledge Drive Survivor
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (REAL LONG)
On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, James Gerard Roll wrote: But I suspect that (while no-one will admit it) there is a certain status that A FEW people desire when part of a small cultish phenomenon like P2 that involves members wanting to prove that they are not part of the TREND but rather have a deeper affiliation with (in this case) the music. Thus the UT/Tweedy backlash. I'd estimate way more than a few, Jim. That attitude permeates the alt-country community. I can't even begin to count how many times someone's assured me they've been into this alt-country (or just plain country) stuff long before it became a fad, or read press releases or interviews or record reviews with someone asserting the same. A big part of that's no doubt the usual hipster cooler-than-thou pose (which can be found in just about any musical subgenre you care to name), but I'd like to think that it's also an implicit recognition of the value of tradition in country music. OK, I'm foolin' myself -- so what?g--don
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (REAL LONG)
Yeah but was Stalin the Tweedy fan and Hitler the Farrar fan, or vice versa? Or did Hitler think that UT were the progenitors of alt-country, while Stalin asserted that it was a decades old form that was not being duly recognized as such by the UT fans, or vice versa? Or... Actually, Stalin reportedly enjoyed listening to orchestrated music with "dogs" doing the vocals. He'd force his generals and aides to dance until the early morning hours to this stuff. -- Terry Smith (who's sincerely sorry he threw this utterly non-musical issue out for comment -- is there a purge coming?)
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (REAL LONG)
On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Don Yates wrote: of that's no doubt the usual hipster cooler-than-thou pose (which can be found in just about any musical subgenre you care to name), but I'd like to think that it's also an implicit recognition of the value of tradition in country music. OK, I'm foolin' myself -- so what?g--don LOL That's the most hopeful and touching thing I have read in a long time Don!! GGG You ARE an old softy deep down. I'll actually buy that explanation . . . peoples' desire to harken back to the origin of THIS movement is kinda like an emotional cowboy hat!! and an old dusty one to boot . . . -jim
Re: instrumentally speaking (was Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (REAL LONG))
In a message dated 3/9/99 3:22:44 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I can't think of many twang bands who incorporate surf other than the Sadies Deke dickerson did a few surfy numbers at the Cheapo instore on saturday. Good stuff. Slim
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country
Hey there, Linda "it's not about the music it's about the internet" Ray That's pretty gosh darn funny. I'm a bit amused that there seems to be a strong alt.country (or at least Uncle Tupelo) backlash going on on this list. Later... CK who somehow manages to like almost everything g ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country
On Sun, 7 Mar 1999, Christopher M Knaus wrote: Later... CK who somehow manages to like almost everything g Welcome to the *dark* side, Chris. Eclectic club meets every 3rd Wednesday. Next meeting's focus: is Euro synth-pop dead? Jerry
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country
Chris wrote: I'm a bit amused that there seems to be a strong alt.country (or at least Uncle Tupelo) backlash going on on this list. C'mon, CK, why be amused? It's been clear to me for the past, oh, two years, that the name of this list is mainly incidental for many of us. It has about as much connection with the breadth of music discussed here, and the diversity of opinion about it, as the name "The Cowboys" has to do with that pack of gridiron miscreants who (occasionally) play football in Dallas. In one respect, I'd add, Postcard 2 works as a sort of backlash receptacle for many people who are shit-sick of hearing about UT, Wilco, etc. With me, I hopped on Postcard, briefly, at the recommendation of my youngest brother, a UT fan, and then hopped off as soon as I heard about P-2. I'm not saying I'm typical in that respect; but I'm sure as hell not unique. -- Terry Smith
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
Linda Ray wrote: Yah. Actually, all UT started was P2. Well, and Postcard, of course. Well okay and No Depression Magazine, but, hey. Uh, you can bet dollars to donuts that P2 would've happened on its own. The accidental spawning of P2 off of Postcard nicely coincided with the general net boom. Nothing against the original Postcard-to-P2 folks (I was one, been on since day one), but P2 didn't get really interesting until lots of non-Postcarders started coming along. I don't recall Weisberger being on Postcard g. Splitting hairs on a cold sleepy Monday, Dave *** Dave Purcell, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Northern Ky Roots Music: http://w3.one.net/~newport Twangfest: http://www.twangfest.com
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country
In one respect, I'd add, Postcard 2 works as a sort of backlash receptacle for many people who are shit-sick of hearing about UT, Wilco, etc. Frankly, I'm shit -sick of hearing that my appreciation for UT, Wilco, etc. is just some youthful infatuation that I'll get over when I grow up and realize that alt.country was around before 1990. I can call my parents when I need to be patronized. I'm shit-sick of the implication that rabid fans of UT, Wilco, etc. lack "perspective" on the history of country-rock and its periodic resurgences (as if that really is necessary), that their love of these bands is faulty if not broadened by an understanding of country-music history (and alternative-country history). I'm shit-sick of the way reaction against the media-hype surrounding these bands slides so effortlessly into nasty backlash against the bands themselves. While I'm at it, I'm also shit-sick of the suggestion that these bands' popularity was purely a media creation, and that they had no merit on their own beyond the myopic adulation of the music press. And I'm shit-sick of people blaming these bands for the lack of attention paid to earlier alt.country performers. Uncle Tupelo causing other acts to be "'disappeared' from rock/country history" (to use Cheryl's phrase)? Please. Todd (Joined Postcard in 1994 as an Uncle Tupelo fan. Knew pretty much nothing else about country music or alt.country music. Spent the last five years trying to learn. Spends all money buying CD's recommended by Don Y. and Jon W. Still thinks Uncle Tupelo is among the best two or three bands ever. Someday may grow up and know better.)
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country
AMEN! Well said, Todd. Way to go... (I'm quoting Todd's message after this because it deserves to be read...) Tom ...who's heard a lot of cool music thanks to various P2ers but still can't get into country all that much. *grin* On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Todd Larson wrote: In one respect, I'd add, Postcard 2 works as a sort of backlash receptacle for many people who are shit-sick of hearing about UT, Wilco, etc. Frankly, I'm shit -sick of hearing that my appreciation for UT, Wilco, etc. is just some youthful infatuation that I'll get over when I grow up and realize that alt.country was around before 1990. I can call my parents when I need to be patronized. I'm shit-sick of the implication that rabid fans of UT, Wilco, etc. lack "perspective" on the history of country-rock and its periodic resurgences (as if that really is necessary), that their love of these bands is faulty if not broadened by an understanding of country-music history (and alternative-country history). I'm shit-sick of the way reaction against the media-hype surrounding these bands slides so effortlessly into nasty backlash against the bands themselves. While I'm at it, I'm also shit-sick of the suggestion that these bands' popularity was purely a media creation, and that they had no merit on their own beyond the myopic adulation of the music press. And I'm shit-sick of people blaming these bands for the lack of attention paid to earlier alt.country performers. Uncle Tupelo causing other acts to be "'disappeared' from rock/country history" (to use Cheryl's phrase)? Please. Todd (Joined Postcard in 1994 as an Uncle Tupelo fan. Knew pretty much nothing else about country music or alt.country music. Spent the last five years trying to learn. Spends all money buying CD's recommended by Don Y. and Jon W. Still thinks Uncle Tupelo is among the best two or three bands ever. Someday may grow up and know better.)
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country
...I placed all my blame on writers who can't seem to do anything but regurgitate press releases, and I thought Terry, etc., were also blaming the hype machine, and no one else. Well I'd like to think that I championed UT and much of it's related offshoots (SV's a bore at this point) in the press without the blind devotion to press releases. Besides, I don't know what press releases or hype machine were ever really behind UT to begin with, at least not until they were signed to Warner (which was only one album) and on the Wilco/SV projects since. I think they cultivated their small-but-mighty 60,000 sales fan base by making great records and playing their hearts out in piece-of-shit clubs every night in every town. Blame me then, because I'd say UT *did* start the 90s version of the roots rock/alt.country/whatever scene, or at least played a huge part in its vitality. Not consciously of course, it's not like they sat down and planned this (duh), but because they have made what I consider some of the most effecting, passionate and original twang rock of the decade, thus inspiring several others (often former punk rockers and/or college boys) to *try* to do the same. When I look back on the 90s and the *rock*-country associated with it, no doubt UT will be one of the main touchstones, if not *the* touchstone. Jeff's cuter than Jay, Neal Weiss
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country
Great passionate post from Todd "Touch me, I'm shit-sick" Larson, although I don't remember anyone blaming UT *or* their fans for anything. FWIW, I placed all my blame on writers who can't seem to do anything but regurgitate press releases, and I thought Terry, etc., were also blaming the hype machine, and no one else.= In terms of blaming UT, I was reacting primarily to Cheryl Cline's assertion: "No Depression-UT focused attention on the music, true; but it focuses attention *away* from a large chunk of alternative country music as well. It's being "disappeared" from country/rock history even as we speak." I read this, perhaps incorrectly, as not only an indictment of the hype, but also of the band. It's tough not to read in the sentence the accusation that UT was somehow complicit, if only by their presence, in the disappearance of other/previous alt. country music. You know, like they did something *wrong.* (I'm also not sure that "attention" is a zero-sum game -- that other alt.country would have received it if UT did not. Any actual evidence of who is being "disappeared"?) On a broader level, I was struck by the smugness of some of the posts which reduce UT and the current alt.country phase to just another "ripple" in the alt.country pond which we UT fans could see if we' d get our head out of our asses and look at the big picture. Even if intended to introduce perspective, the effect of these posts is to dismiss the genuine affection people feel for these bands as immature, short-sighted and misguided. At least as I read it. I admit I may be a bit oversensitive or defensive to this because I happen to have entered the (alt) country fold via UT, but it does seem to me that backlash against the No Depression hype too often results in a dismissal of the hyped bands themselves, as if they were *only* a media creation and had nothing of real value to offer. (This obviously goes way beyond this genre.) If people think UT has no value, that's fine w/ me, but it's a shame if that distaste stems not from the music but from reguritated press releases or frat-boys screaming for "Drown" at the concert . Todd Hoping his Twangpin team shirt isn't embroidered with "shit-sick"
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country
Jeff's cuter than Jay, Neal Weiss possibly. But Jay writes better songs. I am frankly baffled by the Summerteeth hype. My copy will be filed alongside Lucinda Williams' Car Wheels: played it once, tried to play it again, got bored rigid. Stevie
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country
Todd Larson said: Frankly, I'm shit -sick of hearing that my appreciation for UT, Wilco, etc. is just some youthful infatuation that I'll get over when I grow up and realize that alt.country was around before 1990. ...and a lot of other very perceptive stuff. Y'know, I'm a little tired of having to apologize for being a UT fan, too. They're just a band, for chrissakes, and I happen to think they were a damn good one. What's to backlash against? Bravo, Todd. --Jamie S. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.wavetech.net/~swedberg http://www.usinternet.com/users/ndteegarden/bheaters
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country
In a message dated 3/9/99 1:57:25 AM !!!First Boot!!!, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Frankly, I'm shit -sick of hearing that my appreciation for UT, Wilco, etc. is just some youthful infatuation that I'll get over when I grow up and realize that alt.country was around before 1990. ...and a lot of other very perceptive stuff. Y'know, I'm a little tired of having to apologize for being a UT fan, too. They're just a band, for chrissakes, and I happen to think they were a damn good one. What's to backlash against? Yeah, I feel the same way of how I always have to defend my love for the Deliberate Strangers. Damn it, they're a great band, but there are just too many metalheads here in Dee-Troyt. Mitch Matthews Gravel Train/Sunken Road np: Dream Syndicate "3 1/2"
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country
Reading the day's P-2 stuff late, and amazed how a few folks' simple challenge of UT's status as godheads of alternative country is being seen as heresy. A bloody explosion of defensiveness. I didn't really even see anybody criticize the music; it was mainly just a few expressions of annoyance at the notion that UT started alt.country, when, as Todd correctly (if ironically) described it, they represent a ripple -- OK, a small mountain-range -- in the continuum of country-rock and alternative-to-commercial country music. That annoyance doesn't arise from any dislike of UT, Wilco or SV -- at least not from me. As I said, I've got great fondness for UT's non-hard rock stuff, as well as SV and to a lesser extent Wilco. The irritation for me stems from the implied trivialization of all the great alt.country acts that came before UT -- or which were playing their asses off at the same time. God, nobody's even mentioned Neil Young in all this. (This debate arises from differences in defining alt.country, rather than differences in appreciation of UT, I'd guess. If we stipulated those definitions, we'd probably all have a group hug.) As for over-intellectualizing the music, um, if we stop talking about music on this list -- and WHY we like it or don't like it -- then I guess it's back to comparing notes on peanutbutter, mayonaisse and banana sandwiches or somesuch nonsense. Even tossing out a term like "over-intellectualize" is a Stalinist-type conversation-stopper. Send those damn professors out to the fields. Now. From all the huzza-huzzas that erupted after Todd's post, however, it's evident that there's a lot of seething resentment among list members who feel that UT et al are unfairly slapped around on this list. Well, folks, jump in anytime. Not you, Neal, you jump in plenty already (g). -- Terry Smith np Paul Kelly's "Words and Music." Criminy, the tune "Gutless Wonder" has a sort of Richard Thompson-esque nasty freaking attitude about it, doesn't it?
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country
Hey there, Later... CK who somehow manages to like almost everything g Welcome to the *dark* side, Chris. Eclectic club meets every 3rd Wednesday. Next meeting's focus: is Euro synth-pop dead? Jerry Let me ammend my original statement. Later... CK who somehow manages to like almost everything except for alot of the crap that Jerry listens to. g ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
In Defense of Deliberate Strangers (was: Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country)
Hey Tom, Knowing you and your music, you would probably get more into UT's "March 16-20" album. All acoustic-based pretty much and album of "Acuff-Rose" type songs. Damn! Just shot another Del-Stranger hater out my window with my musket. Hope I didn't hurt him too bad. I'll be sure to rid the Motor City of these vermin before this year's big Deliberate Strangers Hogwild World Tour (supposedly, UT is considering reuniting to open for DS on their Midwest leg of the tour). Mitch Matthews Gravel Train/Sunken Road
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country
purcell wrote: Nothing against the original Postcard-to-P2 folks (I was one, been on since day one), but P2 didn't get really interesting until lots of non-Postcarders started coming along. Thank you Dave. I will take that as a complement. Todd Larson in his pledge for President of P2 wrote: (Joined Postcard in 1994 as an Uncle Tupelo fan. Knew pretty much nothing else about country music or alt.country music. Spent the last five years trying to learn. Spends all money buying CD's recommended by Don Y. and Jon W. Still thinks Uncle Tupelo is among the best two or three bands ever. Someday may grow up and know better.) See Todd, the first thing you have to realize is NOT to buy anything recommended by Yates or Weisberger. Paul np: Potatomen - On the Avenue
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
At 5:34 PM -0500 on 3/5/99, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Guess they didn't know about Joe Ely's tour with the Clash. UT was a decade too late. Yeah but, can't a decade too late also mean brand new to a new generation? Well, sure, if they've got no perspective. Asleep at the Wheel invented western swing, too. Bob
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country
Your first sentence sparked a few thoughts - alt.country seems to be music for we aging baby boomers as opposed to alt.rock or new country which seems to target the teen to twenties crowd. In a sense, alt.country is our nostalgia as much as a repackaging of "70's Metal Greats" or any of those compilations you can see advertised on TV. New ground isn't really broken inasmuch as being a crow pie sampling of styles which in some cases would etc. etc. -- from Tera This stuff confuses me, as does the idea that a "movement" evolved around Uncle Tupelo and Tweedy/Farrar. A lot of folks, including a lot of "elderly" people on this list, have been listening to what's currently encapsuled in the alt.country category, for up to 30 years, and even longer. Nothing started with Uncle Tupelo, except for a stampede of non-Austin rock-n-rollers deciding to twang it up for awhile, and, thereby, making it a lot more difficult for people like me to pick the wheat from the chaff in the catalogs and record stores. So while there may be a lot of 40-year-olds gravitating toward the alt.country category, there's a lot of us who were hanging around listening to this stuff before Jeff Tweedy was out of short pants. -- Terry Smith ps enjoyed reading the transcripts of the A-list Nashville session musicians, from the 50s to early 70s, in the Journal of Country Music. I was wondering how much of those guys' nostalgicizing about the way things used to be, and about how the session business has changed, is understandable romanticizing, and how much is on point. One point they made was that these days session guitar and keyboard players don't have recognizable styles, while in the "old days" players had a signature sound, and if they didn't, they were in big trouble. (Thanks, Jon, for the issue.)
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
OH boy. Man Terry, you really have my blood boiling up here in Ann Arbor, and I am sure this debate has happened here before. But I am gonna bite anyways. On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Terry A. Smith wrote: This stuff confuses me, as does the idea that a "movement" evolved around Uncle Tupelo and Tweedy/Farrar. I think you've got your head in the sand if you think that Uncle Tupelo was not at the helm of the current No Depression/Alt. Country ship. This does not mean that they are a great band or that there wasn't non-commercial country prior to UT, (much as one would have to admit there was brit-pop and skiffle prior to the Beatles -- or -- sexy Honky Tonk/RB prior to Elvis Presley). But whether or not you like them we wouldn't have the term Alt.Country or No Depression used as it is without a few select bands UT, Jayhawks to name a couple. A lot of folks, including a lot of "elderly" people on this list, have been listening to what's currently encapsuled in the alt.country category, for up to 30 years, and even longer. This reminds me of a teenager trying to take owenership of his favorite punk band or grunge band. 'I heard it first!! I heard it first". This really isn't relevant to the UT/Tweedy posts. I am 33 years old and have been listening to Hank WIlliams/Bill Monroe/Carters/Balfa Brothers/The Outlaws/Marshal Tucker/The Long Riders/Green on Red/Steve Earle/Dwight Yoakam et. al. for most of my life. Big Deal. I think the point here is not whether the knowledgeable listener appreciates the music, but rather simply from a marketing point of vew the demographic is worth a commercial major label working it. I think Tera's point was well made. The stuff that sells is adolescent/sexy hormonal . . . and Alt. Country, whether the 40 somethings own it or not, is not gong to sell on that level. It's not meant to insult the "elderly" g. Nothing started with Uncle Tupelo, except for a stampede of non-Austin rock-n-rollers deciding to twang it up for awhile, and, thereby, making it a lot more difficult for people like me to pick the wheat from the chaff in the catalogs and record stores. Well, I would somewhat agree with you here. But unfortunately there has always been wheat and chaff and posers and artists. It sounds like you resent UT in some way. Well you have that right. But you are making a senseless generalization here in my opinion. Whether you like UT or not they have had an influence and it is in many ways posistive. They are clearly not a traditional band . . . but they did turn a lot of people on to traditional music who may not have heard it. THey combined punk roots with a love for traditional music and caught people's attention. There are so many loaded words in the sentence above that I don't even want to touch it. Just remember that musicians have every right to be influenced by other music and to play what they want. And that in many cases there are people out there who think that it is a positive thing. Also, I would bet that many people take great solace in the fact that they can sort through the wheat and chaff. Some may even find it fun. What the 'non-austin' part has to do with anything I cannot even guess. IS Austin the only place where people can play Alt. Country?? So many rules to learn!! So while there may be a lot of 40-year-olds gravitating toward the alt.country category, there's a lot of us who were hanging around listening to this stuff before Jeff Tweedy was out of short pants. Uh. Well no doubt. So what?? Doesn't mean that Tweedy shouldn't play his music does it?? Does it mean that sub 40 people should ask permission to listen to him and/or the real alt. country?? I think you missed the point entirely, which is simply that the demographic is not 'Hit Record' material. Alt. Country people aren't old or over the hill -- but rather they very simply aren't teeny-bopper hit making parents'-dollar-spending major label marketing material. That's it. Whether or not you like UT (I am not even a huge fan) without them I say you don't have Alt. Country/No Depression and you may not even have the amout of re-releases that we see today. I also challenge the idea that Alt. Country suddenly includes Bluegrass, Countrypolitan, Old Time, Folk, Punk-a-billy, Cowpunk, etc. Those things existed as genres before Alt. Country and No Depression ever surfaced. I think ultimately the reason that all of those got thrown into the mix was to attempt (and one I would make too) to legitimize Alt. Country as a valid programming format for radio. And we are still losing this struggle . . . which leads back to Tera's point . . . -jim
RE: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
Jim says: I also challenge the idea that Alt. Country suddenly includes Bluegrass, Countrypolitan, Old Time, Folk, Punk-a-billy, Cowpunk, etc. Those things existed as genres before Alt. Country and No Depression ever surfaced. So did country-rock. I think ultimately the reason that all of those got thrown into the mix was to attempt (and one I would make too) to legitimize Alt. Country as a valid programming format for radio. I don't. I think that including those under the alt.country umbrella follows in large part from the counterposition of alt.country to mainstream country, which has been a big part (maybe too big g) of alt.country's definition. One point worth recalling - and I wish I could lay my hands on the interview - is that at least once one of the UT guys has said that part of their interest in doing country-influenced music was for the outrageousness factor, i.e., what could be more convention-defying to punk-oriented peers than getting twangy? Jon Weisberger Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger/
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
James Gerard Roll wrote: > I think you've got your head in the sand if you think that Uncle Tupelo > was not at the helm of the current No Depression/Alt. Country ship. This > does not mean that they are a great band or that there wasn't > non-commercial country prior to UT, (much as one would have to admit there > was brit-pop and skiffle prior to the Beatles -- or -- sexy Honky Tonk/RB > prior to Elvis Presley). But whether or not you like them we wouldn't > have the term Alt.Country or No Depression used as it is without a few > select bands UT, Jayhawks to name a couple. In my best Beavis voice, I'd respond, "Uh...so what?" Uncle Tupelo wasn't at the helm of *anything*. The media made them, in retrospect, the leader of this so-called movement. Terry's point is well stated: country rock/roots rock has been around for a long damn time (as you well know) and it doesn't mean a hill of beans that a bunch of journalists who wouldn't know Commander Cody or the Scorchers from their own arses have declared UT as grand champeen of this last round of country rockers. I like UT a lot, but they weren't originators, they were simply a band the media folk latched onto. People can say it all they want, but it doesn't make it so. > This reminds me of a teenager trying to take owenership of his favorite > punk band or grunge band. 'I heard it first!! I heard it first". This > really isn't relevant to the UT/Tweedy posts. I am 33 years old and have > been listening to Hank WIlliams/Bill Monroe/Carters/Balfa Brothers/The > Outlaws/Marshal Tucker/The Long Riders/Green on Red/Steve Earle/Dwight > Yoakam et. al. for most of my life. Big Deal. Big deal, indeed. I agree completely with Terry, though -- it does get awfully fucking tiresome to read the tripe about UT starting some big movement, especially when one reads the oft-repeated claims that they somehow awakened a type of music that had been dormant since Gram Parsons died. Terry isn't trying to sound like the coolest guy on the block because he's been there, done that, he's just pointing out that it's a lot of bollocks. I'm sure I'll be just as annoyed when roots rock (god, I hate the fucking alt.country tag) makes it's next mid-decade resurgence in 2005 and some annoying kid is talking about being inspired by the ghost of Whiskeytown. On an unrelated note, it's ironic that Jim brings up Kerouac in reference to Tweedy because I'll gladly nominate Jack as the most overrated of the Beats. No one would've heard jack about Jack if Ginsberg hadn't tirelessly shopped and promoted his work. "On The Road" will always be a jackoff work compared to Ginsberg's best stuff. But that's matter for another list, I suspect g>. Not attacking you, Jim, you just happened to hit on a couple of my pet peeves. A lot hungover and a little cranky, Dave P.S. If this newest round of roots rock is so damned great, why are 95% of its leading lights from the previous go-round (Alejandro, Earle, Alvin, etc.)? *** Dave Purcell, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Northern Ky Roots Music: http://w3.one.net/~newport Twangfest: http://www.twangfest.com
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Dave Purcell wrote: reference to Tweedy because I'll gladly nominate Jack as the most overrated of the Beats. No one would've heard jack about Jack if Ginsberg hadn't tirelessly shopped and promoted his work. "On The Road" will always be a jackoff work compared to Ginsberg's best stuff. Wow, we must be of very differnt taste, Dave, because I don't think that Ginsberg (or many other people, much less Beats) have ever touched 'On the Road' (or for that matter even the last paragraph of 'On the Road'), Subterraneans, or Dharma Bums. At least we are consistantly opposed!! g -jim ps -- for me the term 'alt. country' indicates the combination of (post Nirvana) ALT-rock and traditional COUNTRY. UT/Jayhawks exemplefy this movement. I mean how can people deny UT's influence when the Alt. Country Bible (No Depression) is named after one of their albums?? Somebody help me here?? (by the way I am aware that the term 'No Depression' has its roots at the very least in The Carter Family -- but I would bet a quick survey of Peter Blackstock and Grant Alden would reveal that they used the term with UT somewhat in mind).
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
At 10:14 AM -0500 05/3/99, Dave Purcell wrote: In my best Beavis voice, I'd respond, "Uh...so what?" Uncle Tupelo wasn't at the helm of *anything*. The media made them, in retrospect, the leader of this so-called movement. Terry's point is well stated: country rock/roots rock has been around for a long damn time (as you well know) and it doesn't mean a hill of beans that a bunch of journalists who wouldn't know Commander Cody or the Scorchers from their own arses have declared UT as grand champeen of this last round of country rockers. I like UT a lot, but they weren't originators, they were simply a band the media folk latched onto. People can say it all they want, but it doesn't make it so. Well the genesis of this thread had to do with the way Tweedy is being perceived as distancing himself from the alt-country tag at seemingly every opportunity in interviews. The tag itself orginally gained wide currency to describe UT and similar bands, didn't it? Earlier bands in similar styles had other tags applied to them, such as roots rock, country rock, etc. Personally, I don't argue that these tags couldn't also be applied to UT, but Tweedy isn't bringing up these tags in his interviews. As I remember the articles, Tweedy specically addresses whether he would define his band as being part of the "alt-country" or "No Depression" movements. I don't think the point (originally) was whether UT originated or pioneered this style of music, but simply that they found themselves described with a label that didn't exist until after they had already started playing in that style. If Tweedy didn't set out to define himself with this tag -- as perfomers in well-established, long-defined genres such as blues or country do --, but rather found others defining his music for him, perhaps it's not surprising that he doesn't feel much loyalty or committment to keep using that tag. Ross Whitwam[EMAIL PROTECTED] Molecular Pharmacology Therapeutics Program Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, NYC
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
James Gerard Roll [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I mean how can people deny UT's influence when the Alt. Country Bible (No Depression) is named after one of their albums?? Somebody help me here?? ND is *some* people's bible. Honestly I have never even seen a single issue of it. Last night I read a couple of the interviews in the ND book and I was not blown away by the writing. And I have never listened to a single Uncle Tupelo album. I saw Son Volt on Austin City Limits and they bored me. People's experiences are different, even within a "community" like alt.country/P2. Bill Gribble
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
Jim's ps -- for me the term 'alt. country' indicates the combination of (post Nirvana) ALT-rock and traditional COUNTRY. UT/Jayhawks exemplefy this movement. I mean how can people deny UT's influence when the Alt. Country Bible (No Depression) is named after one of their albums?? Somebody help me here?? (by the way I am aware that the term 'No Depression' has its roots at the very least in The Carter Family -- but I would bet a quick survey of Peter Blackstock and Grant Alden would reveal that they used the term with UT somewhat in mind). As usual with this stuff, it all depends on how you look at it, and from what distance. When Uncle Tupelo came along, I listened to 'em and liked 'em quite a bit. Some of their records, both pre- and post-breakup, are among my favorites. But to this listener, at least, they didn't stand out stylistically from stuff I'd been listening to before. The Scorchers, Escovedo, Alvin, etc. They just sort of went into my record collection among all the other roots-oriented stuff I'd been throwing money at for years and years. It was only later that I started reading about their influence, etc. I'm not denying that influence, but just noting that, as Dave said, it probably has as much or more to do with circumstance and context as it does with the actual music. This applies to any music at any time, I guess, though with some music -- Elvis, the Beatles, Charlie Parker, Elmore James, Mozart, etc. -- the substance transcends or reinforces circumstance. All the yammering about Uncle Tupelo and alt.country by young squirts who wouldn't know Lefty Frizzell from Whitey Ford did get a little annoying, I'll confess. This debate, finally, really hinges on how narrowly you want to define alt.country. If you define it as punk-oriented guys playing guitar-driven rock with country undertones and heartland attitudes, who showed up in the mid- to late-80s, then I'll agree, you're probably correct about Tupelo and their influence on the genre. Draw the category a bit wider,though, and you're gonna have to contend with everybody from the Amazing Rhythm Aces to Mason Profit, from Rank and File to the Rolling Stones' Let It Bleed, from Ricky Nelson to Doug Sahm, from Carlene Carter to New Grass Revival, and on and on. And how does "No Depression" as a name for a magazine prove anything about Uncle Tupe's music itself? They're the media, right? If they see Uncle Tupelo as big influential innovator, that's fine. But it doesn't necessarily prove anything. -- Terry Smith ps I think Jim might have taken my post a little bit wrong, because, I'll admit, it didn't have a great deal to do with Tera's post that was copied in that message. Her post just indirectly sparked those thoughts; I wasn't necessarily challenging her argument.
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
Who's are the Scorchers? NW Some overrated roots band from the 80s. The future of nothing, as far as I can tell. marie
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
Reply to: Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED) Who's are the Scorchers? NW Some overrated roots band from the 80s. The future of nothing, as far as I can tell. marie As far as I can tell, Jason and the Scorchers was an important cowpunk band. And a hell of a live band. Hans P.
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
On 5 Mar 1999, Bill Gribble wrote: ND is *some* people's bible. Honestly I have never even seen a single issue of it. Last night I read a couple of the interviews in the ND book and I was not blown away by the writing. And I have never listened to a single Uncle Tupelo album. I saw Son Volt on Austin City Limits and they bored me. Geez, this medium sucks. I am merely stating that one of the main journals reviewing Americana music (does anyone dispute this?? I am sure there will be) is named after a UT album. If you don't accept this, than I suggest you look up the Origin of the terms Postcard and Postcard2 . . . to which you surely must agree you participate. -jim
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Terry A. Smith wrote: ps I think Jim might have taken my post a little bit wrong, because, I'll admit, it didn't have a great deal to do with Tera's post that was copied in that message. Her post just indirectly sparked those thoughts; I wasn't necessarily challenging her argument. Perhaps. I just find it frustrating that there is a debate as to whether on a concrete level, UT/Son Volt/Wilco can be associated with the origin of the Americana/No Depression/Alternative Country movement. To me it is a no brainer. And it seems highly relevant that both the No Depression Magazine and the Listserves 'Postcard' and the offspring 'Postcard2' are all directly related to UT songs and albums. I AM NOT CONDONING OR JUDGING THE QUALITY OR INTEGRITY OF THESE BANDS, MAGAZINES, OR ASSOCIATIONS, OR ADOPTING THEM FOR MYSELF. JUST ACKNOWLEDGING THAT THEY EXIST FOR MANY (NOT ALL) PEOPLE. I am defintely done with this topic. -Jim
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Terry A. Smith wrote: And how does "No Depression" as a name for a magazine prove anything about Uncle Tupe's music itself? They're the media, right? If they see Uncle Tupelo as big influential innovator, that's fine. But it doesn't necessarily prove anything. -- Terry Smith except that MY ONLY POINT was that the media has dubbed them as the originators of this movement and that THAT is what Tweedy is distancing himself from. --JR
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
Exactly, man. The facts is the facts. Hell, I went right out and I bought a pistol right after I heard "Gun" because I worship Uncle Tupelo. And that's not all - when Anodyne came out I rented a car and drove to the New Madrid fault and slept there for a few days in my flannel t-shirt and blue jeans. I then went out a bought a house with a screen door so, I, too, could have my friends over to sing. We would all have our whiskey bottles with us and bitch about the boss and how we just couldn't rip ourselves from our hometown. Those guys SPOKE to me man. They were real. They knew the struggle of farming, just like I did. -Original Message- From: James Gerard Roll [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: passenger side [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Friday, March 05, 1999 1:24 PM Subject: Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED) On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Terry A. Smith wrote: ps I think Jim might have taken my post a little bit wrong, because, I'll admit, it didn't have a great deal to do with Tera's post that was copied in that message. Her post just indirectly sparked those thoughts; I wasn't necessarily challenging her argument. Perhaps. I just find it frustrating that there is a debate as to whether on a concrete level, UT/Son Volt/Wilco can be associated with the origin of the Americana/No Depression/Alternative Country movement. To me it is a no brainer. And it seems highly relevant that both the No Depression Magazine and the Listserves 'Postcard' and the offspring 'Postcard2' are all directly related to UT songs and albums. I AM NOT CONDONING OR JUDGING THE QUALITY OR INTEGRITY OF THESE BANDS, MAGAZINES, OR ASSOCIATIONS, OR ADOPTING THEM FOR MYSELF. JUST ACKNOWLEDGING THAT THEY EXIST FOR MANY (NOT ALL) PEOPLE. I am defintely done with this topic. -Jim
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
Exactly, man. The facts is the facts. Hell, I went right out and I bought a pistol right after I heard "Gun" because I worship Uncle Tupelo. And that's not all - when Anodyne came out I rented a car and drove to the New Madrid fault and slept there for a few days in my flannel t-shirt and blue jeans. I then went out a bought a house with a screen door so, I, too, could have my friends over to sing. We would all have our whiskey bottles with us and bitch about the boss and how we just couldn't rip ourselves from our hometown. Those guys SPOKE to me man. They were real. They knew the struggle of farming, just like I did. Tee-hee, this are funny. You know, there's something about comedy that just makes me laugh. Lance . . .
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country
On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Dave Purcell wrote: As far as I can tell, Jason and the Scorchers was an important cowpunk band. And a hell of a live band. Hans P speaketh the truth, except that you can replace "was" with "is." Yeah, and Jason R.'s solo Cd a few years back was (is) the future of country music. Can you say, "It hit the charts with a resounding thud"? I thought you could. Overrated, overamped, overhyped, overplayed, overexposed, overdone, and over-the-top. Just digging Dave here..I loved them during their heyday, can't go down that road any longer. However "Absolutely Sweet Marie" off of the EP hit me like a shot between the eyes. What a perfect way to extend my appraciation for punk which was running on empty at that time. That is, I was tiring of indy punk material but still craved the energy. Bring on some meldoy and here came along cowpunk. I thought I was saved. Jerry NP: Lucy Kaplansky - Flesh Bone
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
Jeff Copetas dreamt this up: Exactly, man. The facts is the facts. Hell, I went right out and I bought a pistol right after I heard "Gun" because I worship Uncle Tupelo. And that's not all - when Anodyne came out I rented a car and drove to the New Madrid fault and slept there for a few days in my flannel t-shirt and blue jeans. I then went out a bought a house with a screen door so, I, too, could have my friends over to sing. We would all have our whiskey bottles with us and bitch about the boss and how we just couldn't rip ourselves from our hometown. Those guys SPOKE to me man. They were real. They knew the struggle of farming, just like I did. then lance davis wrote: Tee-hee, this are funny. You know, there's something about comedy that just makes me laugh. to which I add: yeah. huhuh! Especially when it sets a complete moron like me on the high road to knowing more about things. thanks Jeff, I see now. forget all that stupid stuff I said about Tweedy/UT peoples. k? I was dum . . . -jim
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Terry A. Smith wrote: And how does "No Depression" as a name for a magazine prove anything about Uncle Tupe's music itself? They're the media, right? If they see Uncle Tupelo as big influential innovator, that's fine. But it doesn't necessarily prove anything. -- Terry Smith except that MY ONLY POINT was that the media has dubbed them as the originators of this movement and that THAT is what Tweedy is distancing himself from. --JR Actually, you made a few more points than that. My point, whether it dovetails apositively with your point or not, is that whatever media proclaimed Uncle Tupelo the originator of alt.country MUSIC suffer from a musical blind spot that's several decades huge. No argument, however, with the reality -- which is that somebody's wrongheaded assessment of Uncle Tupelo as a Brand New Musical Thang did, in fact, inspire a revitalization of the country-rock genre -- young rock bands playing country-type material. So we're both right -- they started something, but that something was started under false pretenses, whether UT intended it or not. I'm sure they didn't. Hey, there's no harm in arguing this stuff, is there? My wife thinks I'm dense, too. -- Terry Smith
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
Guess they didn't know about Joe Ely's tour with the Clash. UT was a decade too late. Yeah but, can't a decade too late also mean brand new to a new generation? NW
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
In a message dated 3/5/99 12:14:35 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I am merely stating that one of the main journals reviewing Americana music (does anyone dispute this?? I am sure there will be) is named after a UT album. I thought that was a Carter Family song. I have decided that I hate alt. country, and love country and western music. Slim
RE: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
Guess they didn't know about Joe Ely's tour with the Clash. UT was a decade too late. and the unfortunate part of this is joe ely has yet to really find his decadeone of those artists who has been mining this "genre" (whatever the hell you folks want to call this genre) for yrs and yrs yet has never really broken thruyes, he has a nice base of people who like and respect him but he has never made that big jump and that is shame
Re: Tweedy quote/alt.country (LONG and IRRITATED)
In a message dated 3/5/99 9:14:18 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: /colorBig deal, indeed. I agree completely with Terry, though -- it does get awfully fucking tiresome to read the tripe about UT starting some big movement, especially when one reads the oft-repeated claims that they somehow awakened a type of music that had been dormant since Gram Parsons died. Yah. Actually, all UT started was P2. Well, and Postcard, of course. Well okay and No Depression Magazine, but, hey. Linda "it's not about the music it's about the internet" Ray
