Re: [AFMUG] SNMP

[Colin Stanners]

Chuck, the PacketFlux products are great for many use cases but I'm not
sure this is one of them as the non-GPS-sync built in functionality in PF
units is very basic.

Look at the ControlByWeb products, amusingly their location in Nibley UT is
not far from you. I think their X-408 is cost effective at $250 and with 8
digital inputs and e-mail notifications etc. probably would serve this case
well.

There is also the Ethertek RMS-100, RMS-200 OR RMS-300 or the Tycon
TPDIN-monitor-web3 series.


On Wed, May 8, 2024, 2:24 p.m. Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Maybe Forrest will jump on here for a sales pitch.  At a minimum I need
> contact closures.  But temp and DC voltage monitoring would be handy.  Not
> sure the differences in all his products.  Email notification would
> probably be the best for me.
>
> *From:* TJ Trout
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 8, 2024 1:15 PM
> *To:* Josh Luthman
> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SNMP
>
> I would prefer packet flux since it's made in the USA but I don't believe
> they have on board email, if you don't want to deploy an SNMP server this
> might be an option
>
> https://tyconsystems.com/homepage/shop/tpdin-monitor-web3/
>
> On Wed, May 8, 2024, 12:10 PM Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
>> What does the alarm contact offer?  Just SNMP?  If so, you need to figure
>> out if the alarm contact is going to be changing the OID or not.  Some
>> software works better in this situation.
>>
>> On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 3:09 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> We have nothing at the moment.  So before I purchased a netguardian I
>>> though I would ping the borg to see if there is a cheaper or simpler
>>> system.
>>>
>>> We recently discovered that we had a rectifier fault and an inverter
>>> fault so our system goes down during a power failure while waiting for the
>>> generator to start.  I decided that we should probably monitor alarms.
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* TJ Trout
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 8, 2024 12:47 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SNMP
>>>
>>> What's the use case? Do you have an existing snmp system? Sometimes a
>>> box with built in email client is less of a hassle, I'm sure there are
>>> cloud solutions as well.
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 8, 2024, 11:44 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 We are needing to add some monitoring of old fashioned alarm contacts
 in one of our sites.  In the past I used Netguardians.  Not sure what
 Forrest has.

 Is SNMP still the defacto NMS comm method or are there better more
 modern stuff out there we should be looking at?


 Best Regards,
 Chuck McCown

 McCown Technology Corporation
 8401 N Commerce Dr
 Lake Point, Utah 84074
 801-250-9503 Office
 435-830-4306 Cell
 www.mccowntech.com
 www.microtrench.pro
 www.terabitnetworks.com
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] PON question

[Colin Stanners]

The PON can be split anywhere along the line. The headend OLT can be close
but often is far, usually a cabinet feeding multiple blocks, sometimes a
pile of them in a shed that feeds a whole town or small city. At the OLT
location there will be UPS and usually feed redundancy.



On Fri, Mar 15, 2024, 6:58 p.m. Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Since there are FTTH people here and I’m mostly ignorant of such things,
> maybe someone can clear something up for me.
>
>
>
> I always assumed a PON based FTTH system had a topology kind of like HFC.
> I expected fiber down the street with splitters, but fed by some sort of
> neighborhood node in a cabinet with power and electronics, fed by active
> EPL style fiber.  Which could have redundant paths, rings, etc. so a fiber
> cut wouldn’t take down a whole town or multiple towns, the backbone traffic
> would reroute.
>
>
>
> I’ve been told this is not the case.  And that instead, each PON could go
> back over a strand to a headend several towns and many miles away, all
> passive.
>
>
>
> Sorry for the poor description of my question, hopefully you can figure
> out what I’m asking.
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Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels

[Colin Stanners]

I doubt that rx level is the problem here. Dispersion becomes a bigger
problem once you go past 10G speeds, on those long links.

On Wed, Jan 24, 2024, 12:27 p.m. Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Even if the RX level is good?
>
> > rx was within 0.3dBm on all 4 lanes on both sides
>
> On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 1:22 PM Daniel Pautz via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Yeah makes me think the two paths have different loss.   We have had that
>> on mirrored paths,  or even single paths with crappy splices on one of the
>> strands.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Chuck McCown via AF
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 24, 2024 11:12 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels
>>
>>
>>
>> Did anyone do dispersion testing on the fiber?
>>
>>
>>
>> Chuck McCown
>> McCown Technology Corporation
>> 8401 N Commerce Dr
>> Lake Point, Utah 84074
>> 801-250-9503
>> 435-830-4306 cell
>> www.mccowntech.com
>> www.microtrench-blades.com
>> www.terabitnetworks.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Zach Underwood
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 24, 2024 12:07 PM
>>
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels
>>
>>
>>
>> tired again this morning and still no link. rx was within 0.3dBm on all 4
>> lanes on both sides. We got 10gb 80km to link up. This will do for now. We
>> will be looking at getting 40gb 80km single lane optics or adding another
>> site to fiber loop to shorten the footage to under 40km.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 11:14 AM Colin Stanners 
>> wrote:
>>
>> So both of those SFPs are within the tx power range.
>>
>>
>>
>> 100G may not work on a link that long unless you have dispersion
>> compensation fiber on the path or in a huge loop in a box style at one end.
>>
>>
>>
>> You likely cannot change tx power levels on those SFPs, they will run at
>> the max they can do for that specific unit.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 24, 2024, 7:46 a.m. Zach Underwood 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> *TX Power*   2~6.5dBm
>>
>>
>>
>> I am struggling to get this 100gb link up. In the field this link is
>> quoted at 31 miles. The rx levels are -22 and -20 on both sides but I can't
>> get it to link. I take the same optics to the lab and add 20dbm of attenuator
>> to get almost the same rx levels as the field and it will link up.
>>
>> I have added error-correction encoding reed-solomon per the user guide
>> for links over 40km.
>>
>> So far I have not found a way to change the TX levels in arista, the
>> options are in the CLI but they dont seem to change the outcome. For me
>> this is the first time dealing with 80km optics or 100gb optics over 10km.
>>
>> switch is Arista DCS-7060SX2-48YC6-R
>>
>>
>>
>> https://resource.fs.com/mall/doc/20230531114903y4ljxw.pdf
>> https://www.fs.com/products/115818.html?attribute=29032=3462585
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 8:35 AM Colin Stanners 
>> wrote:
>>
>> There should be. What does their datasheey indicate for tx power range?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 24, 2024, 7:31 a.m. Zach Underwood 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Yep labels identical but there is a difference in default power levels.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 24, 2024, 8:13 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>
>> Oh, meaning the variance between the two, otherwise identical models?
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>>
>> *From: *"Zach Underwood" 
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Tuesday, Januar

Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels

[Colin Stanners]

So both of those SFPs are within the tx power range.

100G may not work on a link that long unless you have dispersion
compensation fiber on the path or in a huge loop in a box style at one end.

You likely cannot change tx power levels on those SFPs, they will run at
the max they can do for that specific unit.


On Wed, Jan 24, 2024, 7:46 a.m. Zach Underwood  wrote:

>
> TX Power   2~6.5dBm
>
> I am struggling to get this 100gb link up. In the field this link is
> quoted at 31 miles. The rx levels are -22 and -20 on both sides but I
> can't get it to link. I take the same optics to the lab and add 20dbm of 
> attenuator
> to get almost the same rx levels as the field and it will link up.
>
> I have added error-correction encoding reed-solomon per the user guide for
> links over 40km.
>
> So far I have not found a way to change the TX levels in arista, the
> options are in the CLI but they dont seem to change the outcome. For me
> this is the first time dealing with 80km optics or 100gb optics over 10km.
>
> switch is Arista DCS-7060SX2-48YC6-R
>
> https://resource.fs.com/mall/doc/20230531114903y4ljxw.pdf
> https://www.fs.com/products/115818.html?attribute=29032=3462585
>
> On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 8:35 AM Colin Stanners 
> wrote:
>
>> There should be. What does their datasheey indicate for tx power range?
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 24, 2024, 7:31 a.m. Zach Underwood 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yep labels identical but there is a difference in default power levels.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 24, 2024, 8:13 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Oh, meaning the variance between the two, otherwise identical models?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -
>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>>> --
>>>> *From: *"Zach Underwood" 
>>>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, January 23, 2024 12:51:39 PM
>>>> *Subject: *[AFMUG] optical TX power levels
>>>>
>>>> I got 2x 100gb 80km optics from FS that run difficult default TX power
>>>> levels one is 3.81dBm and the other 2.63dBm, the config on the arista
>>>> devices hosting the optics is the same.
>>>>
>>>> Has anyone seen much difference between optic like this? My sample size
>>>> is small due to the optices costing $4k each
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
>>>> My website <http://zachunderwood.me>
>>>> advance-networking.com
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> AF mailing list
>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>
>>>> --
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>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
> My website <http://zachunderwood.me>
> advance-networking.com
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels

[Colin Stanners]

There should be. What does their datasheey indicate for tx power range?

On Wed, Jan 24, 2024, 7:31 a.m. Zach Underwood  wrote:

> Yep labels identical but there is a difference in default power levels.
>
> On Wed, Jan 24, 2024, 8:13 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> Oh, meaning the variance between the two, otherwise identical models?
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Zach Underwood" 
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Tuesday, January 23, 2024 12:51:39 PM
>> *Subject: *[AFMUG] optical TX power levels
>>
>> I got 2x 100gb 80km optics from FS that run difficult default TX power
>> levels one is 3.81dBm and the other 2.63dBm, the config on the arista
>> devices hosting the optics is the same.
>>
>> Has anyone seen much difference between optic like this? My sample size
>> is small due to the optices costing $4k each
>>
>> --
>> Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
>> My website 
>> advance-networking.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels

[Colin Stanners]

Many SFPs say up to 5dB variance in their specs, but luckily I've only
experienced up to 2-3dB. 1.2dB variance is small.


On Wed, Jan 24, 2024, 7:13 a.m. Mike Hammett  wrote:

> Oh, meaning the variance between the two, otherwise identical models?
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Zach Underwood" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Tuesday, January 23, 2024 12:51:39 PM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] optical TX power levels
>
> I got 2x 100gb 80km optics from FS that run difficult default TX power
> levels one is 3.81dBm and the other 2.63dBm, the config on the arista
> devices hosting the optics is the same.
>
> Has anyone seen much difference between optic like this? My sample size is
> small due to the optices costing $4k each
>
> --
> Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
> My website 
> advance-networking.com
>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper

[Colin Stanners]

I had read (here?) that at one time any paying Juniper support account
holder had access to all product firmware files, so some companies would
buy the cheapest Juniper product - like a switch under $1000 - and its
cheap support contract, from a standard Juniper supplier, so they could get
firmware updates for all their eBay-sourced gear.


On Wed, Jan 10, 2024, 8:54 p.m. Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> Is this worth looking at or is it too problematic from a support / update
> perspective? New Juniper is not in my budget.
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Re: [AFMUG] PMP450i GPS/Sync issue

[Colin Stanners]

You can't command the UPSes to reboot the sites? Which UPS models are they?
Sorry to hear that.


On Mon, Jan 1, 2024, 12:07 a.m. Christopher Tyler 
wrote:

> Well that was fun. 8 hours of power cycling AP's. Just rebooting the AP's
> didn't fix it. Thankfully not every 450 radio seems to have freaked out.
> Weird that it really only affected some of our 900 Mhz 450i radios.
>
> But to top it all off we still have some sites that are on stand-alone
> syncpipes with no way to reboot them. So we'll have to roll tucks to about
> 20 sites overnight. Yay.
>
>
> 
> Christopher Tyler
> Senior Network Engineer
> Total Highspeed Internet Solutions
> +1 417-851-1107 ext 9002
> ch...@totalhighspeed.net
>
> 
>  Book
> time to meet with me
> 
>
> This institution is an equal opportunity provider and employer. Esta
> institución es un proveedor de servicios con igualdad de oportunidades.
> --
> *From:* AF  on behalf of Forrest Christian (List
> Account) 
> *Sent:* Sunday, December 31, 2023 6:14 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] PMP450i GPS/Sync issue
>
> Plus, if a rackinjector was previously upgraded to a reasonably-recent
> version (and the default settings weren't changed), it shouldn't have seen
> the issue at all, as the firmware in the rackinjector defaults to disabling
> GLONASS.
>
> (This is my plea for everyone to upgrade to the latest version as it isn't
> just this issue that version resolves).
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 31, 2023 at 4:54 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Rackinjectors there is a button in the GUI to disable GPS power then turn
> it back on. Very easy and can be done remotely.
>
>  Original Message 
> From: "Cassidy B. Larson"
> Sent: 12/31/2023 5:47:42 PM
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PMP450i GPS/Sync issue
>
> It’s the GPS you’re using. You’ll want to power cycle the radio, if it’s
> powering the GPS unit itself, or power cycle the CMM5/rackinjector if it’s
> providing GPS for your radios.
>
> https://www.cambiumnetworks.com/support/field-service-bulletins/fsb9079/
> 
>
> For us, we’re just visiting a few of the sites that have
> CMM5/rackinjectors impacted GPS units for now and unplugging/plugging the
> GPS to avoid rebooting.. and mopping up with reboots one by one for those
> that have their own GPS late tonight.
>
>
> On Dec 31, 2023, at 16:42, Christopher Tyler 
> wrote:
>
> A couple of hours ago all of our PMP450i radios started losing sync,
> reaquire, then lose again. Is anyone else seeing similar issues? All other
> 450 AP's seem to be working fine.
>
> 
> Christopher Tyler
> Senior Network Engineer
> Total Highspeed Internet Solutions
> +1 417-851-1107 ext 9002
> ch...@totalhighspeed.net
> 
> 
>  Book
> time to meet with me
> 
>
> This institution is an equal opportunity provider and employer. Esta
> institución es un proveedor de servicios con igualdad de oportunidades.
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
>
>
> --
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> 
>
>
>
> --
> - Forrest
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[AFMUG] Ubiquiti V+H feeds (dish rear ends) for slant deconversion

[Colin Stanners]

Hi all. Does someone have left-over V+H feeds (the rear end part) for the
Ubiquiti RD-5G30 or RD-5G34, possibly after having replaced those with
slant models from Ubiquiti's "slant conversion kit" feedhorns?

We have received some 3ft dishes that are slant-pol, which we need to
convert to V+H.
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Re: [AFMUG] Options for Selling Wireless Equipment

[Colin Stanners]

SurplusWirelessGear
Facebook "WISP pics" or similar groups
I can't think of any others offhand.


On Wed, Nov 29, 2023, 4:58 p.m. Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> Does anyone have any suggestions on where to sell new or used wireless
> equipment? eBay is so unfriendly to sellers anymore I hate to go that route.
>
> Jason
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Re: [AFMUG] wispa

[Colin Stanners]

It is likely unrelated in any way to WISPA, we get such emails for every
event that we could possibly be related to, every few months.

On Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 10:34 a.m. Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

> I wonder if wispa sanctions this spam?
>
> *From:* Alicia Paul
> *Sent:* Friday, July 14, 2023 8:59 AM
> *To:* sa...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* Go-Mtc
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> Just wanted to do a quick follow-up on my below email.
>
>
>
> Please review my below email and let me know your interest.
>
>
>
> May I send quote/pricing details for decision-making?
>
>
>
> Looking forward to hearing from you.
> Alicia
> --
>
> *From:* Alicia Paul
> *Sent: *Thursdy, July 13, 2023, 10:53 AM
> *To:* sa...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* Go-Mtc
>
>
> Hi,
>
> We are happy to let you know that the pre-registered attendance list for
> the “WISPAPALOOZA 2023” is now available to buy at the best possible price.
>
> Attendees: WISP Industry Professionals | Industry Experts |
> Decision-Makers in the ISP Industry | Service Providers | Leading Suppliers
> in the Fixed Wireless Internet Industry and many more…
>
> Please let me know your views, so that I can share the counts and pricing
> details.
>
> I look forward to your response.
>
> Regards,
> Alicia Paul | Event Database Coordinator.
>
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[AFMUG] Outdoor 24V PSU cabinet with batteries?

[Colin Stanners]

Hi all,

Looking at options for tiny WISP sites - ideal would be a small outdoor
cabinet with 120VAC input, 2x 12V 12AH / 18AH batteries, ~27V charger/PSU
around 5A and a temperature-controlled battery blanket. Is there anything
like that in the market so I don't have to organize design/build?
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Re: [AFMUG] -48 vDC to 120 vAC

[Colin Stanners]

Samlex inverters are very good quality from what I see. I asked and got:

Our PST series is fully isolated from input to output and can work with
-48vdc.

PST-600-48

PST-1500-48



On Sun., Nov. 20, 2022, 10:55 a.m. Mike Hammett,  wrote:

> Recommendations on producing 120vAC out of -48vDC?
>
> We are in a Frontier CO and having a hard time finding -48vDC powered
> devices, so looking to just produce 120 vAC so we can just use standard
> power supplies for them. Primarily, we need to power a VDSL modem (so like
> 5 - 10 watts), but having a bit more would be nice for convenience. House
> power isn't always convenient, so it would be a good place to plug in
> laptops when in there working.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] Old Canopy FW upgrade

[Colin Stanners]

*FSK SM into an FSK AP.

It wasn't hard to get, I wasn't a programmer and I had discovered it after
a few days of SM and AP memory dumping through scripts and telnet PEEKs,
looking at diffs and fiddling around with POKE commands. Then I mentioned
it to Mr. H from down under and he had a more reliable POKE address that
survived config changes better IIRC.

That was like 10 years ago, afterwards I didn't really keep note of the
final commands / "cheat code" as you call it but it was an educational
challenge.


On Mon., Oct. 17, 2022, 4:02 p.m. Chuck McCown via AF, 
wrote:

> Sure be nice if some other Chuck gave you the cheat code to turn an SM
> into an AP...
>
> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller
> *Sent:* Monday, October 17, 2022 2:29 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Old Canopy FW upgrade
>
>
> I was ready to chime in.  Glad you got it.
>
> - Reply message -
> From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" 
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> Subject: [AFMUG] Old Canopy FW upgrade
> Date: Mon, Oct 17, 2022 2:27 PM
>
>
> Bill,
>
> Got it.  Gave up on trying to do an update directly on the unit.  Just set th 
> AP to auto-update and it took care of it for me.
>
> --
> Best regards,
>  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
> Myakka Communicationswww.Myakka.com
>
> --
>
> Monday, October 17, 2022, 2:14:50 PM, you wrote:
>
> BP> IIRC, CNUT not only uses the SNMP community string, but it also needs to 
> login to the SM. Make sure you have the username/password set for CLI access.
>
>
> BP> bp
> BP> 
>
> BP> On 10/17/2022 11:09 AM, Mark - Myakka Technologies wrote:
> >> I still have a couple of customers on Canopy FSK900.  Had to replace a 
> >> radio due to storm damage.  Radio is at FW 7.2.9.  I'm trying to upgrade 
> >> to 10.5.  Dusted off all my CNUT stuff.  Have everything loaded and 
> >> discovered, but keep getting "No SNMP response" from SM.  I can log into 
> >> SM and see the SNMP community and it matches the CNUT settings.  Tried v1 
> >> and v2c with no luck.  Any ideas?
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>   Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com
> >>
> >> Myakka Communications
> >> www.Myakka.com
> >>
> >>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Fishing over Drop Ceiling

[Colin Stanners]

https://www.stadiumallstar.com/product_p/dynamic-srot24.htm

Search & Rescue Golf Ball 24 ft Orange Trapper Retriever




Our Price: $56.78
* Sale Price: $46.97 *
* Save $9.81! Plus FREE SHIPPING *



Buy one of these or similar and it pays back fast.


On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 9:39 AM Nate Burke  wrote:

> I need to go about 30' across a drop ceiling.  I do not want to remove
> any tiles in the middle.  If I put a tennis ball on the end of my screw
> together fiberglass rods will that be enough to bounce over the ceiling
> supports as I push it?  Does it need to be bigger or smoother?
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: extra-small 10/100 ethernet switch/repeater

[Colin Stanners]

Lookup the MikroTik hAP mini, even without case, or the 2-port mAP. I don't
think that you can get smaller without extreme engineering.

On Tue, Aug 16, 2022, 8:35 PM Robert,  wrote:

> get a tempest
>
> On 8/16/22 12:36 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
> >
> > We have this Davis Vantage Pro 2 weather station. We've had it for at
> > least 12 or 14 years. For quite some time, we had it in our utility
> > room where it was out of the way. Because the utility room was kind of
> > central to the main part of the house, we also had our WiFi AP located
> > in that room, and they both ran off a small (Netgear) 5-port switch,
> > which relayed to our router at the far end of the house. Never had a
> > problem with it.
> >
> > We recently started refreshing the utility room. Nothing drastic, just
> > fresh floor, paint, and trim. In the process we moved the WAP to a
> > place we call "the alcove", which is still fairly centrally located,
> > but has better clearance to the outside/deck area. So we moved the
> > switch there and put our VoIP phones on the switch with the WAP.
> >
> > So the weather station is now on a dedicated ethernet connection back
> > to the router. Suddenly the weather station "stalls out" after a bunch
> > of "excessive collision/speed mismatch" errors. Sometimes it runs for
> > 4 or 5 hours, sometimes it runs a day or two, but always gets to the
> > stalling out phase after a bunch of ethernet errors.
> >
> > So I started looking into the ethernet interface on the weather
> > station. Turns out, it's an obsolete data logger contraption that
> > Davis no longer makes, and it runs 10Base-T half duplex. Erg. I got
> > into the router and set the port that it's on to 10/half dux, and it
> > actually seems to run longer this way, but still gets to the too many
> > errors condition after a while.
> >
> > I think I've come to the conclusion that the funky little data logger
> > goober on the weather station is just not very robust. I think if I
> > put another switch or ethernet repeater co-located with the weather
> > station, I can get it back to the state of mostly working (or at least
> > with a stall rate that is measured in months/years instead of
> > hours/days).
> >
> > So what I'm looking for is the smallest/tiniest ethernet switch (or
> > maybe just a repeater) that can be installed on the wall next to the
> > weather station console as possible. This may be difficult, as the
> > Netgear fast switch we had there is only 4x4 inches. Just wondering if
> > there was something even smaller?
> >
> > The other option is (maybe) a Raspberry Pi that has two ethernet ports
> > on it? We run the weather station with a Raspberry Pi 3 that is
> > located elsewhere on the LAN, but it only has 1 ethernet port. If
> > there was one with two, I could just plop the pi next to the weather
> > station.
> >
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Locating Cambium's Chinese plastics supplier (e501s bracket mass-purchase for quick-reinstall event Wi-Fi )

[Colin Stanners]

That's a lot of time and work for questionable reliability - meanwhile
there is a company in China that is currently manufacturing and selling the
known-good models to Cambium for likely 10$ each. I just need to find that
company and see if they will sell to me.

On Tue, Aug 9, 2022 at 10:49 AM can...@believewireless.net <
p...@believewireless.net> wrote:

> Have someone come up with a design, 3D print it locally and test it
> out. You can then ship it out
> to a professional 3D printing company where you have LOTS of options
> for materials. Some have
> carbon fiber, some have metal, some have resilient plastics, resins, etc.
>
> The design is key though. The designer will need to know how the
> weight will sit on it so they can
> allow the layers to shear off at a layer line.
>
> I have a resin printer and with the different material options, I
> would trust them holding expensive
> equipment after being cured. Parts are typically printed at off angles
> so you don't have the
> layer strength issues you would with FDM printing.
>
> On Tue, Aug 9, 2022 at 11:36 AM Colin Stanners 
> wrote:
> >
> > As these need to hold up $500 APs and survive year-round outdoors, I
> wouldn't trust 3d-printed plastics.
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 9, 2022 at 10:19 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> 3d printing?
> >>
> >> From: Colin Stanners
> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2022 9:12 AM
> >> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> >> Subject: [AFMUG] Locating Cambium's Chinese plastics supplier (e501s
> bracket mass-purchase for quick-reinstall event Wi-Fi )
> >>
> >> Hi AFMUG, a rare request here.
> >>
> >> I'm looking to purchase a large number of Cambium's e501s brackets,
> which they don't sell individually (reasonable enough due to low demand).
> >>
> >> A while ago on one of our packages from (passed through) Cambium, I
> noticed the name of a Chinese supplier that I didn't recognize. I visited
> their website and they seemed to be Cambium's plastics supplier. But I
> didn't consider that information worth saving. Has anyone noticed that name
> so that I can attempt to buy a number of brackets directly, if they are
> allowed to sell them?
> >>
> >> Reasoning: I'm trying to put together a "super-fast event Wi-Fi
> re-deployment" design. Basically, at the many locations where we offer
> Wi-Fi once or twice a year, we'd have existing e501S slide-on mounts, also
> terminated RJ45 ends with the cable glands in a tough plastic bag ziptied
> to the tower. All events would have the routers/PoE switches left onside
> with a standardized IP/VLAN/etc setup. The idea is that we can tell the
> techs "grab 15 event APs", which don't need to be programmed by the office
> as they have a standard config, and after climb the techs spend <1min per
> AP to slide on and plug in. So with these and other optimizations, an event
> of e.g. 5 sites x 3 APs per site can be fully re-deployed in 1-2hours,
> instead of the 1-2 days that we normally spend organizing, programming,
> attaching mounts, cabling, etc.
> >>
> >> 
> >> --
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> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >>
> >> --
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> >
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Re: [AFMUG] Locating Cambium's Chinese plastics supplier (e501s bracket mass-purchase for quick-reinstall event Wi-Fi )

[Colin Stanners]

As these need to hold up $500 APs and survive year-round outdoors, I
wouldn't trust 3d-printed plastics.

On Tue, Aug 9, 2022 at 10:19 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> 3d printing?
>
> *From:* Colin Stanners
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 9, 2022 9:12 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Locating Cambium's Chinese plastics supplier (e501s
> bracket mass-purchase for quick-reinstall event Wi-Fi )
>
> Hi AFMUG, a rare request here.
>
> I'm looking to purchase a large number of Cambium's e501s brackets, which
> they don't sell individually (reasonable enough due to low demand).
>
> A while ago on one of our packages from (passed through) Cambium, I
> noticed the name of a Chinese supplier that I didn't recognize. I visited
> their website and they seemed to be Cambium's plastics supplier. But I
> didn't consider that information worth saving. Has anyone noticed that name
> so that I can attempt to buy a number of brackets directly, if they are
> allowed to sell them?
>
> Reasoning: I'm trying to put together a "super-fast event Wi-Fi
> re-deployment" design. Basically, at the many locations where we offer
> Wi-Fi once or twice a year, we'd have existing e501S slide-on mounts, also
> terminated RJ45 ends with the cable glands in a tough plastic bag ziptied
> to the tower. All events would have the routers/PoE switches left onside
> with a standardized IP/VLAN/etc setup. The idea is that we can tell the
> techs "grab 15 event APs", which don't need to be programmed by the office
> as they have a standard config, and after climb the techs spend <1min per
> AP to slide on and plug in. So with these and other optimizations, an event
> of e.g. 5 sites x 3 APs per site can be fully re-deployed in 1-2hours,
> instead of the 1-2 days that we normally spend organizing, programming,
> attaching mounts, cabling, etc.
>
> --
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[AFMUG] Locating Cambium's Chinese plastics supplier (e501s bracket mass-purchase for quick-reinstall event Wi-Fi )

[Colin Stanners]

 Hi AFMUG, a rare request here.

I'm looking to purchase a large number of Cambium's e501s brackets, which
they don't sell individually (reasonable enough due to low demand).

A while ago on one of our packages from (passed through) Cambium, I noticed
the name of a Chinese supplier that I didn't recognize. I visited their
website and they seemed to be Cambium's plastics supplier. But I didn't
consider that information worth saving. Has anyone noticed that name so
that I can attempt to buy a number of brackets directly, if they are
allowed to sell them?

Reasoning: I'm trying to put together a "super-fast event Wi-Fi
re-deployment" design. Basically, at the many locations where we offer
Wi-Fi once or twice a year, we'd have existing e501S slide-on mounts, also
terminated RJ45 ends with the cable glands in a tough plastic bag ziptied
to the tower. All events would have the routers/PoE switches left onside
with a standardized IP/VLAN/etc setup. The idea is that we can tell the
techs "grab 15 event APs", which don't need to be programmed by the office
as they have a standard config, and after climb the techs spend <1min per
AP to slide on and plug in. So with these and other optimizations, an event
of e.g. 5 sites x 3 APs per site can be fully re-deployed in 1-2hours,
instead of the 1-2 days that we normally spend organizing, programming,
attaching mounts, cabling, etc.
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Re: [AFMUG] OT wechat

[Colin Stanners]

I installed WeChat to communicate with Chinese suppliers. I went to a
nearby Chinese restaurant where I knew the staff and they scanned my QR as
a "friend" or similar so that I could be authorized. Ridiculous method of
signup and questionable privacy implications but it is a way to prevent
false registrations. If you send me a screenshot of your code I can try to
scan it.



On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 10:58 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

>
> Trying to get a tech support call going with a Chinese company.  They use
> wechat.  I tried to install it and it requires another wechat user to scan
> a QR code on my phone.  That ain’t gonna happen.  I guess there is a manual
> way for another wechat user to let me into the club.
>
> Like to have a live translator on the call too.  Anyone have any
> recommendations?
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Re: [AFMUG] IP Geolocation update

[Colin Stanners]

At least it's the closest thing to easy travel that you'll see these days.

On Mon, Jul 18, 2022 at 9:11 AM  wrote:

> Is there any fast/easy way to update all the geolocation services?
>
>
>
> I just got a new IP block and I’m getting conflicting results.  The same
> IP is said to be in Manhattan, Cleveland, Dallas, DC, and Salt Lake
> depending which geolocation service you check.  It’s bizarre.
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Re: [AFMUG] What is the supply chain situation from a WISP perspective?

[Colin Stanners]

I feel like RouterOS V7 is the crux of the "ship first test later" attitude
that MikroTik sometimes shows.

The RB4011 semi-freezes were a rare problem (bad for people who riskily
used them at tower sites, hopefully no one did that...). Forum posts
suggest that those issues were fixed through software updates.
The CCR2004 random reboots were a bigger issue due to their more core place
in infrastructure. Forum posts suggest that those problems have been
reduced through software updates but still exist. Given that CCR2116 and
CCR2216 share similar Annapurna Labs CPUs, their stability is in question.

But those cases pale in comparison to the many V7 issues "OSPF is just
decoration"  "BGP? Who needs that working?"  etc. These would be somewhat
acceptable on non-shipping software, but V7 is required on most of the
newer routers.

On Wed, Jun 22, 2022 at 10:58 AM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Once v7 gets to a point where it's not so problematic that 2116 will be
> great.  I'd rather stick with older stuff/v6 than have customers
> complaining about mid day reboots.
>
> On Wed, Jun 22, 2022 at 9:14 AM Steven Kenney via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks.  I didn't even know that model existed!  Pretty cool.  We just
>> need a small form factor for some of our towers. Pretty sure my guy checked
>> a few models that were all not in stock.  I'll keep that model in mind
>> though!
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2022 at 7:46 AM Dennis Burgess 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Depends on what you need, you may need to modify what you need to what
>>> you can get   Just a FYI.  We have quite a few people who used to buy
>>> 4011s now buying 2116s etc, just cause we have stock.  Keep in mind that
>>> larger is ok, just smaller is not.  
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *[image: LTI-Full_175px]*
>>>
>>>
>>> *Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE,
>>> MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP Certified *
>>>
>>> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>>>
>>> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>>>
>>> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>>>
>>> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Steven Kenney via
>>> AF
>>> *Sent:* Monday, June 20, 2022 7:40 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> *Cc:* Steven Kenney 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] What is the supply chain situation from a WISP
>>> perspective?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We called - you couldn't get anything until Sept that we needed.  But
>>> thanks for checking in Dennis!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 7:13 AM Dennis Burgess 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> We have CRS 48Ps, a number of 2216s, and a number of products… Here is
>>> stuff in stock.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.linktechs.net/productcart/pc/showsearchresults.asp?idcategory=0=0==-1==1==0=0=0=0=125=2=
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *[image: LTI-Full_175px]*
>>>
>>> *Dennis Burgess*
>>>
>>>
>>> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>>>
>>> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>>>
>>> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>>>
>>> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>>>
>>> Need MikroTik Cloud Management: https://cloud.linktechs.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steven Kenney via AF
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 16, 2022 4:21 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> *Cc:* Steven Kenney 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] What is the supply chain situation from a WISP
>>> perspective?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No mikrotiks to be found..
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2022 at 3:36 PM Jeff Broadwick - Lists 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Kinda depends on what you are looking for and you timeline.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There’s quite a bit of Cambium in stock in the channel.  Lots of some
>>> UBNT stock and none of a lot of SKUs.  Tik is mostly backordered on the
>>> most popular switches and routers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Some manufacturers like Adtran and Tarana work allocation to try and
>>> keep people moving.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you plan ahead, it’s not that bad mostly.
>>>
>>> Jeff Broadwick
>>>
>>> CTIconnect
>>>
>>> 312-205-2519 Office
>>>
>>> 574-220-7826 Cell
>>>
>>> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 16, 2022, at 2:22 PM, Josh Luthman 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> Everything is a dumpster fire.  Everything.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2022 at 2:11 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
>>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> So the sales at packetflux have been very much more volatile this year.
>>>   Like we'll go fairly long stretches with few sales, then a blast of
>>> orders will come through.   On average we're doing pretty much as expected
>>> but on the short term it swings from "how are we ever going to make all of
>>> this stuff" to "I hope the orders pick back up since we don't have any more
>>> room to store stock".   Like I said, we're doing fine on average, it's just
>>> that I'm curious what is driving this odd 

Re: [AFMUG] Favorite Small Server Rack UPS

[Colin Stanners]

The smart-UPS 3000 have 4x 12V 18-22AH batteries IIRC. I believe the only
way to get as much or more battery/runtime in the same space is to get a
tower 750XL/1000XL/1500XL, which have 2x of those same batteries, and the
tower expansion unit which has another 4x. So 6x batteries in all should
get you about 160% of the runtime of the non-battery SU3000 due to slower
discharge, but it's not rackmount so need a shelf.


On Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 8:04 AM Josh Luthman, 
wrote:

> For the current recommendation we need to know your current load.
>
> load * batteries = 45 minutes
>
> On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 12:23 AM can...@believewireless.net <
> p...@believewireless.net> wrote:
>
>> Haven't really paid much attention to the small server room UPS space in
>> a long time. Normally I'd use a few 3000W APCs with external batteries.
>> This location has a backup generator but would prefer 45+ minutes of uptime
>> on the servers on batteries alone.
>>
>> What is the current recommendation?
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Re: [AFMUG] 10Gig BiDi with SC connectors

[Colin Stanners]

If like us, because 1) LC is a bit too small for individual manipulation by
our grubby hands in denser panels  and 2) We could build an entire network
out of nothing but singlemode SC/UPC connections in gigabit times (just
putting small SC/UPC adapters to APC on the GPON CPEs), without needing a
wide variety of adapters etc for the different use cases. Unfortunately in
10Gbit+ with the lack of SC on SFPs, the latter advantage is disappearing.

On Fri, Apr 22, 2022 at 11:19 AM Nate Burke  wrote:

> Why do you prefer SC over LC?
>
> On 4/22/2022 10:39 AM, Carl Peterson wrote:
>
> Thanks.  Found a bunch in spam.  Funny that a search doesn't search the
> spam folder.
>
> SC 1 gig BiDi optics are pretty common.  Not even a special order.  Works
> so much better with Siklu gear.  I'll twist arms at FS and see if they can
> do them in 10 Gig.
>
> On Fri, Apr 22, 2022 at 10:33 AM Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
>> A)  Make sure you're subscribed
>> B)  Look for messages in spam - pretty much every single message AFMUG
>> sends me is marked as spam so I have a filter to force it to my inbox
>>
>> The optics are LC - bidi or not - so we're stuck with LC.  LC jumpers are
>> easy to find.  Using SC seems like trading one hassle for another, but I'm
>> sure climbers appreciate the extra office effort!
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 22, 2022 at 11:29 AM Carl Peterson <
>> cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Josh.
>>>
>>> What a PITA.   Any work around?  I miss my AFMUG fix.
>>>
>>>  We've been using SC BiDi SFPS for years to run fiber to radios.  With
>>> 4.8MM rugged fiber cables it makes it really simple.I've honestly
>>> wondered why anyone using BiDi would want to use LC for BiDi.  Doesn't make
>>> a lot of sense to me.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 22, 2022 at 9:18 AM Josh Luthman <
>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>>
 Gmail made some changes at the end of March and AFMUG and Gmail are in
 a fight.

 I'm surprised they make SFP with SC anywhere honestly so I can't help
 on the SFP+.

 On Fri, Apr 22, 2022 at 9:58 AM Carl Peterson <
 cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote:

>
>
> Moving to some of the newer Siklu gear with SFP+ ports and was
> surprised to find 10Gig BiDi SFPs with SC connectors aren't available from
> FS.  Anyone know of a source or someone who can make them?
>
> P.S.  I haven't seen any traffic on this list for awhile.   Did we
> have another unsubscribe event?
>
>
> --
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>

>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Carl Peterson
>>>
>>> *PORT NETWORKS*
>>>
>>> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
>>>
>>> Baltimore, MD 21202
>>>
>>> (410) 637-3707
>>>
>>
>
> --
>
> Carl Peterson
>
> *PORT NETWORKS*
>
> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
>
> Baltimore, MD 21202
>
> (410) 637-3707
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] 3 Sectors posing as Omni

[Colin Stanners]

Alpha Wireless makes some tri-sector antennas but that company is more
oriented towards cellular carriers
https://alphawireless.com/macro-concealed-tri-sector-solutions/

On Wed, Mar 16, 2022 at 10:22 AM David Sovereen via AF 
wrote:

> I could have sworn that a few years ago, I saw a rather fat Omni that was
> really 3 120-degree sectors in an omni form-factor.
>
> I would like to put one up to save on some tower rent cost, but am not
> finding any.
>
> Does anyone else know where to find such a thing?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave
>
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>
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[AFMUG] Obscure product search: flippable, locking mount for omni on side of vehicle

[Colin Stanners]

Hi all, I'm looking at an option for better/more reliable data access on
stationary business vehicles. If there was a position-locking flippable
mount installed on the side of the vehicle, a 2-3ft thin omni could be
installed that would flip down for transport and be manually flipped up for
use. Of course that has a risk of damage if forgotten but there are other
solutions for that. I was wondering if anyone had seen a commercial product
that would work for this.  Thank you.
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Re: [AFMUG] The weirdest coincidence

[Colin Stanners]

That brings up big questions of why the noob thought they'd have permission
to do that, and why someone gave them a password with AP control access.

On Tue, Feb 22, 2022 at 12:23 PM  wrote:

> Nevermind.  Some noob was shutting off Aps trying to disable users.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 22, 2022 1:07 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* The weirdest coincidence
>
>
>
> I just had five different PMP450 AP’s go down at the same time at five
> different towers.  In all cases the switch reports link, but I get zero Rx
> traffic.  Power cycle doesn’t bring any of them back up.
>
>
>
> WTF just happened?  Some kind of bug?
>
>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] DHCP

[Colin Stanners]

What type of router are you using? If this is for customers, do you wish to
have restrictions like "max 2 IPs allocated to any devices connected per
individual CPE"?

On Fri, Feb 4, 2022, 6:02 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> I need to spin up DHCP.  Another company I am affiliated with uses
> DHCPatriot.  No idea why it is better than free DHCP.  Any recommendations?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
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Re: [AFMUG] cnWave v3000 in snowy environments

[Colin Stanners]

Also a flop in the wind!

Huh huh huh

On Thu, Jan 6, 2022, 2:06 PM Chuck McCown via AF,  wrote:

> I did.  It was a flop in the market.
>
> *From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 6, 2022 12:46 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] cnWave v3000 in snowy environments
>
>
> I’m pretty sure someone really did make a dish ice cover that was a
> drawstring sack.  Pull string, tie knot, done.  Same idea as trash bag, but
> it was sized for the dish and looked a little nicer.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *TJ Trout
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 06, 2022 2:16 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] cnWave v3000 in snowy environments
>
>
>
> coming soon, McCown technology UV stabilized trash bags!
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 10:56 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
> Trash bags are proven, effective and cheap.  You just have to replace them
> when they get shredded.
>
>
>
> *From:* Sean Heskett
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 6, 2022 11:38 AM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] cnWave v3000 in snowy environments
>
>
>
> Until cambium or another vendor provides a better professional solution
> then we gotta do what we gotta do lol.
>
>
>
> Sean
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 11:34 AM Colin Stanners 
> wrote:
>
> Wrapping antennas in cellophane is like going back to early 2000s "indoor
> Linksys routers in tupperware" hackery.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 6, 2022, 12:08 PM Sean Heskett,  wrote:
>
> We are going to try some different sprays as well as wrapping the antenna
> in cellophane (like what boat owners use to winterize their boats) to
> create a makeshift radome
>
>
>
> Sean
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 7:26 AM Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> Travis's suggestion of a hefty garbage bag comes to mind.  That was the
> best they found.  But since it's high frequency it's probably not hiding
> from plain sight on a tower.
>
>
>
> Have you tried an annual spray of NeverWet?  Works great on my shoes.
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373?entry=gmail=g>
> Suite 1337
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373?entry=gmail=g>
> Troy, OH 45373
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373?entry=gmail=g>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 6:02 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
>
>
> Are there any other WISPs who have installed cambium cnWave v3000s in a
> snowy environment? We are having trouble with snow building up on the
> dishes.
>
>
>
> It would be nice if Cambium allowed you to install it upside down but then
> the cable glands are facing up.
>
>
>
> It would also be nice if there was some sort of radome.
>
>
>
> Or if there was a heating pad you could power with the AUX port power.
>
>
>
> thoughts??  ideas??
>
>
>
> Does anyone have a good solution they are using?
>
>
>
> *Sean Heskett*
>
>
>
> *ZIRKEL *
>
> *Internet • WiFi • Phone • TV*
>
> 970-871-8500 x100 - Office
>
> Website <http://www.zirkel.us/> | Facebook
> <https://www.facebook.com/ZIRKEL/>
>
> --
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>
> --
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
>
> Sean Heskett
>
> ZIRKEL
> Internet • WiFi • Phone • TV
> 970-871-8500 x100 - Office
>
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
>
> Sean Heskett
>
> ZIRKEL
> Internet • WiFi • Phone • TV
> 970-871-8500 x100 - Office
> --
>
> --
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>
> --
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>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] cnWave v3000 in snowy environments

[Colin Stanners]

Wrapping antennas in cellophane is like going back to early 2000s "indoor
Linksys routers in tupperware" hackery.

On Thu, Jan 6, 2022, 12:08 PM Sean Heskett,  wrote:

> We are going to try some different sprays as well as wrapping the antenna
> in cellophane (like what boat owners use to winterize their boats) to
> create a makeshift radome
>
> Sean
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 7:26 AM Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
>> Travis's suggestion of a hefty garbage bag comes to mind.  That was the
>> best they found.  But since it's high frequency it's probably not hiding
>> from plain sight on a tower.
>>
>> Have you tried an annual spray of NeverWet?  Works great on my shoes.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> 
>> Suite 1337
>> 
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> 
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 6:02 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> Are there any other WISPs who have installed cambium cnWave v3000s in a
>>> snowy environment? We are having trouble with snow building up on the
>>> dishes.
>>>
>>> It would be nice if Cambium allowed you to install it upside down but
>>> then the cable glands are facing up.
>>>
>>> It would also be nice if there was some sort of radome.
>>>
>>> Or if there was a heating pad you could power with the AUX port power.
>>>
>>> thoughts??  ideas??
>>>
>>> Does anyone have a good solution they are using?
>>>
>>> *Sean Heskett*
>>>
>>> *ZIRKEL *
>>> *Internet • WiFi • Phone • TV*
>>> 970-871-8500 x100 - Office
>>> Website  | Facebook
>>> 
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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>
> ZIRKEL
> Internet • WiFi • Phone • TV
> 970-871-8500 x100 - Office
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Re: [AFMUG] Fusing batteries

[Colin Stanners]

Sorry, 50A being the circuit breaker.

On Wed, Jan 5, 2022, 5:51 PM Colin Stanners  wrote:

> 750 /24 = 31 amps. Sounds like it may be better to standardize on 48V. If
> staying at 24V I'd recommend a 80-100A fuse in each series of batteries and
> maybe a 50A or in some cases lower fuse for the site.
>
> On Wed, Jan 5, 2022, 5:40 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> So we have some 12v 190 ah batteries and are going to be running them in
>> series for 24 v and pairs in parralell if we need more capacity.
>>
>> Where all is fusing recomended and of what type and size?
>> These will be attached to 750w 1000w or 1500w ups depending on the site.
>> Most sites pull between 450 and 750 watts right now off the current
>> batteries
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>>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Fusing batteries

[Colin Stanners]

750 /24 = 31 amps. Sounds like it may be better to standardize on 48V. If
staying at 24V I'd recommend a 80-100A fuse in each series of batteries and
maybe a 50A or in some cases lower fuse for the site.

On Wed, Jan 5, 2022, 5:40 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

> So we have some 12v 190 ah batteries and are going to be running them in
> series for 24 v and pairs in parralell if we need more capacity.
>
> Where all is fusing recomended and of what type and size?
> These will be attached to 750w 1000w or 1500w ups depending on the site.
> Most sites pull between 450 and 750 watts right now off the current
> batteries
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Re: [AFMUG] 48v Inverter Recommendations

[Colin Stanners]

Look into Samlex or Cotek.

On Thu, Dec 30, 2021 at 3:18 PM Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> Any recommended brands / models?
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Re: [AFMUG] AWS issues?

[Colin Stanners]

"What happens to the Cloud when it rains?"

On Wed, Dec 15, 2021 at 9:43 AM Cameron Crum  wrote:

> Anyone else seeing real slowness from AWS DBs this morning? I couldn't
> even load the dashboard a while ago, but now it comes up. Their status says
> everything is fine but even simple queries from multiple sources are taking
> minutes to execute.
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Re: [AFMUG] IPv6 in home routers

[Colin Stanners]

Because they / their IT person are smart at avoiding problems.

Most ISP-provided routers aren't setup (or the customer is not
knowledgeable enough) by someone to be following the same wireless settings
(or, for more advanced cases, port forwarding rules) as the previous
router, so customers find random printers / doorbells / lightbults /
devices not working after an ISP-arranged router upgrade or their changing
of ISPs. Customer owning the router fixes those issues.

On Mon, Dec 13, 2021 at 3:58 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> People still buy their own routers?
>
> Why?
>
> Just do it for the customer.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *dmmoff...@gmail.com
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Monday, December 13, 2021 3:51:07 PM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] IPv6 in home routers
>
>
>
> I was doing some testing on our dual stack FTTX network.
>
>
>
> I grabbed a CnPilot R201P off the shelf.  IPv6 was disabled by default.
> You had to enable it in 3 different places and even after following the
> guides on Cambium’s site the prefix delegation seems to not really work.
>
> I grabbed an AirCube…..no IPv6 support at all.  It’s supported in the
> underlying OS, but not in the GUI.  Ubiquiti support says it’s coming, but
> they’ve been saying that for 2 years +.
>
> I grabbed a Mikrotik…..works perfectly fine, but setup is beyond what any
> consumer is going to do.  If I’m quibbling, it doesn’t support stateful
> dhcp assignments from a delegated prefix.  That’s not too big of a deal.
>
>
>
> Out of 3 routers I have close at hand, 1 is a faulty implementation, 1 is
> not implemented at all, and one is too hard for normal people.
>
>
>
> So when people run out to the store and get a Netgear, Asus, or whatever
> router off the shelf is it hit-or-miss with those too?  I guess I naively
> assumed that 25 years after IPv6 was created that we’d have working
> implementations by now.
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] radio mobile help

[Colin Stanners]

I used "SRTM - best data - site 2". Does that work?

On Sat, Dec 4, 2021, 9:46 AM CBB - Jay Fuller 
wrote:

> been dabbling a bit in radio mobile, working outside of our normal
> coverage area, and am missing HGT files for the area i'm working with for
> SRTM elevation data. Several of the drop downs in radio mobile for which
> site to download data from seem to be old (or maybe i'm not sure what i'm
> doing).  Anyone care to share their current data source?
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Looking for

[Colin Stanners]

Are you trting to reach the moon Chuck? What linearity / modulation needed?

https://www.w6pql.com/300w_33cm_amplifier.htm is a start.

https://www.arworld.us/html/18200.asp?id=1459   but it looks like deep
pockets are needed


On Thu, Nov 25, 2021, 5:00 PM Chuck McCown via AF,  wrote:

> About 2kW at around 900 MHz.  Anyone know of a defunct UHF TV station?
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Re: [AFMUG] Fax Machines

[Colin Stanners]

Yes, but for that you need to physically go outside their building.

For badly-secured devices on the internet, they can be hacked from next
door as easily as Eastern Europe. And there are many wily people in the
latter.


On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 1:01 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> *nods* Not as secure. Ya know, I can TLS end to end, but I can also stick
> a 30 year old tape recorder on the phone line NID at the business and
> record your fax.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Chuck McCown via AF" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Cc: *"Chuck McCown" 
> *Sent: *Friday, November 19, 2021 12:57:04 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Fax Machines
>
> I just ran into this yesterday.
> I wonder if it is a HIPPA thing or DEA thing where you can control the end
> point of the conveyance of the information?
>
> IP is not as secure, perhaps, in someone’s mind.
>
> Them doctors loves their faxes.
>
> First FTTH customer I ever did was to a larger office full of doctors.  I
> talked them into swinging everything to me.
> I payed to have the incumbent hook them back up to POTS after a few days
> of trying.
> The main doctor in this new office building was a friend of mine.
>
> I will never touch a doctor or pharmacy again.
>
> Fax and IP/SIP just do not play nice.
>
> *From:* Brian Webster
> *Sent:* Friday, November 19, 2021 11:02 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fax Machines
>
>
> I think there is something about the law and a document being a legal
> signature being an original or a fax. Laws haven’t caught up to digital
> signatures or pictures of an original document.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Brian Webster
>
> www.wirelessmapping.com
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Nate Burke
> *Sent:* Friday, November 19, 2021 12:38 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fax Machines
>
>
>
> One of my Physical therapy customers, all their patient documentation is
> via fax.  The therapist hand writes out the report for the patient, then
> it's faxed to corporate where it's automagically sucked into the customers
> digital file.  So they send 100 faxes/day.  You would think that it should
> all be just entered right into the customers digital file.
>
> On 11/19/2021 11:33 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>
> For some, it's because they're old.
>
> For others, it's because their industry is a dumpster fire (insurance,
> medical, etc.).
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Jay Weekley" mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, November 19, 2021 11:24:48 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Fax Machines
>
> Why do people fax anything in 2021?
>
> Mike Hammett wrote:
> > I'm having fax problems as well. We're going to get reseller
> > relationships with the incumbents so we can get a POTS line installed
> > and just not freaking deal with it anymore.
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> >  
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> > Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> >  
> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Fax Machines

[Colin Stanners]

Kijiji

On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 10:50 AM Nate Burke  wrote:

> I'm having trouble with one of my customers who insists on having a real
> fax machine.  I'm not convinced that it's not the Fax machine talking to
> the ATA, so I was going to take another fax machine to their location to
> test.  From the Packet captures, it looks like the Fax machine does not
> successfully negotiate the baud rate.  I have several customers doing
> faxing with ATA's and fax machines, the only difference with this
> customer is that their ATA is off my network behind a Comcast connection.
>
> My desktop laser multifunction is a fax machine, but it also weighs
> about 80lb so I don't really want to lug it over.  I figured I could
> pickup a cheap inkjet printer for <$50 and it would fax, but it looks
> like fax capability is now relegated to the $200+ machines. Which I
> guess makes sense since nobody 'should' be faxing anymore.
>
> Are there still cheap fax machines out there that I'm missing.
>
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Re: [AFMUG] EPMP Beam Forming antenna

[Colin Stanners]

Have you done tests with the beamforming antenna usage off and on? A few
review that I saw suggested that those antennas didn't help much on the
3000 series.

On Thu, Nov 11, 2021, 9:09 AM Nate Burke  wrote:

> I heard a rumor that the EPMP beam forming antenna was being
> discontinued.  Is something else taking it's place that was announced in
> Vegas?  They have worked really well for us on our EPMP3000 deployments
> in high noise environments.
>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] Tarana G1

[Colin Stanners]

The webinar had some strongly encouraging statements from Wisper, a
respected WISP. Tarana really isn't forthcoming on pricing so I suspect
that we won't like the price tag. I am speaking with another WISP who is
looking to bring equipment in for a test.

On Fri, Oct 29, 2021 at 8:42 AM  wrote:

> More snake oil or anything of substance?
>
> The usual claims of gigabit, fiber replacement and non-line of sight in 3
> or 5 GHz.
>
> https://www.taranawireless.com/
>
>
> - Jared
>
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Re: [AFMUG] POE cams, local software suggestions?

[Colin Stanners]

Look at Blue Iris software. Free trial. Supports almost any IP camera, good
plugin-free web interface for desktop and mobile.

On Tue, Oct 19, 2021, 9:11 PM Josh Luthman, 
wrote:

> I'm looking for something like Ubnt in terms of form factor but I need the
> software to work right.  Pretty much just record and IP access is all I'm
> after.  Motion would be a nice plus.
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] Aviat WTM4200 Latency

[Colin Stanners]

Have you tried Flow Control off/on, on both devices, at one end's Ethernet
link? What model of MT router?

On Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 1:20 PM Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> I'm having an issue where about 3-8% of packets going through a WTM4200
> link are seeing a 1-10ms spike in latency.  Aviat support is not being
> particularly helpful, they just say they're seeing CRC errors at one end
> and to replace the SFPs and cabling to see if that helps.  These have a
> fiber connection and are powered through the DC port.  The radios / SFPs /
> fiber at both ends are new.  I've already replaced the SFPs on the attached
> Mikrotik routers with Aviat SFPs with no change in the issue.
> Incidentally, I'm seeing the issue when I ping from the Mikrotik routers to
> their respectively attached WTM - so the issue is both ends and not a
> single one.  Has anyone seen anything like this?
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Re: [AFMUG] Replacing Tough switches

[Colin Stanners]

In any location that's "professional" or important enough to use that much
DIN rail, I wouldn't use or expect to see any Ubnt products (other than
Airfiber... even then it depends on link importance)

On Tue, Aug 3, 2021 at 4:55 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> We are replacing all the tough switches installed at wells and lift
> stations with Phoenix Contact switches and 24 VDC fed POE's.
> The TS-5s don't hold up well in our heat especially at lift station sites
> where enclosures are free standing and not inside buildings.
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Force 300 Ethernet question

[Colin Stanners]

Which model do you gentlemen use, the 800-GIGE-SS-HV ?


On Fri, Jul 16, 2021 at 3:30 PM Darren Shea  wrote:

> I know there’s supposedly no such thing as a stupid question, so please be
> kind if this actually is one, but…
>
>
>
> Might there be a way to increase the distance between the cable jack and
> the bottom of the box? I don’t really have an issue when I’m cutting and
> crimping a new fitting on a cable, but if I want to use a premade cable
> with strain-relief, that’s when my mumbled curses start flying. Even a
> half-centimeter more of a gap might help…
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> via AF
> *Sent:* Friday, July 16, 2021 2:24 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Force 300 Ethernet question
>
>
>
> There is not enough room to make a hole large enough for a grommet that
> will allow a cat5 plug to pass.  We have about .735” to work with.  You
> need a minimum of .750 hole and the grommet itself is 1” dia.
>
>
>
> I could do a split grommet that would just fit the CAT5 but then you will
> have to install the  grommet with cable filling it and that will be a big
> pain forcing it in.  The other seal that is already there slides out so you
> are not having to force a round grommet into the hole.
>
>
>
> It is easy if the grommet doesn’t have anything going through the center
> when you install it.
>
>
>
> I doubt no one wants to feed the wire through then install the plug.
>
>
>
> *From:* Jason McKemie
>
> *Sent:* Friday, July 16, 2021 11:56 AM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Force 300 Ethernet question
>
>
>
> I've drilled holes in the bottom of the DC SS enclosures, directly below
> the connectors.  Works well enough for those, it would be a bit more of a
> pain with the RJ45 connector though since you'd have to install the end
> afterwards.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 16, 2021 at 11:51 AM Carl Peterson 
> wrote:
>
> We have recently seen similar issues when using Chuck's surge
> suppressors.  Not sure what changed, the RJ 45s, The jack Chuck uses, or my
> techs but we figured out that it was caused by the cable getting pulled
> sideways in the surge enclosure and the tolerance stack on the RJ/RJ jack
> just not working in our favor.  Now we add a zip tie in the little
> enclosure to force a bend/cross in the in/out cable.
>
>
>
> P.S. If you are reading this Chuck we would really really like an
> enclosure with a separate in/out feed similar to the 600SS or something
> like that so the cable can go straight up into the jack and not get pulled
> sideways.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 15, 2021 at 10:44 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
>
> I've put up alot of the F300, haven't seen any problems.  Bad cable or
> Radio?  Did you try a different POE?  9/10 times Ethernet seems to be a
> problem with the termination and/or cable.  I've done 1000's of ends, but
> just the other day I did one with one blue and green wire switched, I think
> that caused weird Ethernet problems.  Of course it was the end at the radio
> and not the easy-to-get-to inside connection.
>
> On 7/15/2021 9:32 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>
> Installed a PTP  link with great signal but Ethernet port will not lock at
> 1000FDX...only 100FDx...if i force it it loses connection or 10mbps hex...
>
> Latest firmware...
>
> Any ideas?
>
> I even put a Trendnet Ethernet switch between Poe and Edgeswitch...
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Carl Peterson
>
> *PORT NETWORKS*
>
> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
>
> Baltimore, MD 21202
>
> (410) 637-3707
>
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Re: [AFMUG] An old timer is back

[Colin Stanners]

I thought that Travis was around middle USA, not in Canada?


On Fri, Jul 2, 2021, 10:43 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> Must be bored in the great white north?
>
> --
> bp
> part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 7:59 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> He just signed back on.  I normally don’t out folks when they sign up.
>> But, hey, it’s Travis.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jul 2, 2021, at 8:43 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Travis still on this thing?
>>
>> --
>> bp
>> part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 6:38 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Travis, what have you been up to?
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>>
>> --
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>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] WISPAMERICA COVID

[Colin Stanners]

I heard that vaccinated people get an average 5dB more signal on every
install.

On Wed, May 5, 2021, 6:58 PM Matt Hoppes 
wrote:

> Right - and I know of at least one who was fully vaccinated that got COVID.
>
> Vaccination does not make you immune.
>
> On 5/5/21 4:20 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
> > The vast majority of those that I spoke with at the show were either
> partially or fully vaccinated.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >> On May 5, 2021, at 4:10 PM, Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> I'm just curious more than anything... did any of you that went to
> WISPAMERICA catch COVID?
> >>
> >> --
> >> AF mailing list
> >> AF@af.afmug.com
> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> >
>
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Re: [AFMUG] (no subject)

[Colin Stanners]

Not anymore, because of Starlink.

On Thu, Mar 18, 2021, 5:10 PM Derek Pribnow  wrote:

> Doesn't x xxx
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Re: [AFMUG] utility outage notifications

[Colin Stanners]

For quick and easy monitoring of lower-priority sites (e.g. relatives'
homes) I recommend putting a static IP on their CPE and allowing pings, and
making a free account on a site such as https://uptimerobot.com/pricing/ .
If either the internet or power goes out, you get an email within 5
minutes. You can also setup additional monitoring to differentiate those
causes by putting the CPE on a UPS and putting a simple NATed web server
behind it (not on UPS).

On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 7:42 PM Andrew Haninger  wrote:

> My electric company installed a smart meter on my house a few years ago. I
> get an email when the power is out and another when it comes back on. Not
> terribly useful when I'm home all the time, but I've been wishing I could
> get the same email when my parents' power goes out, too. We live in the
> same city, but different areas.
>
> Maybe a battery-powered Pi that you can also plug in to mains and it will
> send the email when it switches to battery. Probably also want an LTE modem
> in case the internet goes out at the same time.
>
> Andy
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 13:48 Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
>> If you have your own meter you might get a notification.  Not sure I'd
>> depend on it.
>>
>> We have meters with both providers that have our area in multiple
>> locations.  Sometimes we get a heads up, most of the time we don't
>> (referring to planned events, outages I get a call many hours after it gets
>> fixed).
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 12:23 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> We dont run our own meters, power is built in to leases so we dont have
>>> account numbers with the power utilities. Is there a place we can register
>>> for alerts on regional outages?
>>> an example is right now one of our sites that has a bad UPS thats
>>> replacement is on order. It went down a bit ago and looking on the
>>> providers outage map, its a planned outage for tree trimming. We could have
>>> planned around that.
>>>
>>> I have notifications for my home account with ComEd and its nice, I know
>>> when my power goes out and get the ETA notices as they update them
>>> --
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>>>
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Re: [AFMUG] PowerBeam upgrade?

[Colin Stanners]

You didn't note what model wasn't easily found on Google. If it was
written, we could help.

The previous email had so many "creative" parts that I needed to parse it
better:

>I don't understand why manufacturers don't compress the signal more to get
higher bandwidth.

What are your sources for that assumption? Some do data compression (e.g.
Dragonwave), but since much of the content on the internet is already
compressed, savings are minor, maybe 10-20% on average traffic, so many do
not.

>Using tighter filters they should be able to get a 100x more data
throughput than they do.

Definitely not, radio filter quality varies but the difference in speed /
modulation between average and great filters is more in the range 10-30%,
not 1%. The latter would be an insane amount, out of this world.

>1 Mhz appears to be worth 1 bit.  Why aren't they using 100hz for 1bit?

Did you mean 1hz worth 1bit? Such as FSK modulation - that was around the
year 2000. Since then, radios have become much more efficient, some can do
10-15bits/hz which is up to dual-stream 1024-4096QAM. Such requires strong
signal, 40dB+ over noise, which is not often seen, and getting near the
maximum efficiency possible in modern channels / spectrum / distances.
100hz for 1bit would be extremely inefficient; if you meant 100bits/hz,
that would require technology so advanced and signal so incredibly strong
that the devices would be insanely expensive and almost touching distance,
not miles away.

>Tighter filter, vast increase in throughput, no more competition from
cable/fibe

Tighter filters will give some percentage speed increase as noted above,
but the second and third part of this sentence are very incorrect.

>just saying, the manufacturers designers should pull their heads out of
their bosses butts and improve the designs they have instead of reaching
for higher bands which only function under rare conditions!

Those designers know a massive amount about RF, and most designs today are
quite good (depending on price range). Good ideas are nice but above you
have made some very incorrect statements, and no new or notable ideas.



On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 9:50 AM Jan Van Kort  wrote:

> So that would be a yes it does experience rain fade?  It rains here and
> heavy misting at least 6 months out of the year.
>
> I'm not finding that model on google, Mouser elect. seems to be an Aviat
> dealer, not finding this model there, so I wouldn't know what freq this
> model supports.  Is it even produced anymore?
>
> I don't understand why manufacturers don't compress the signal more to get
> higher bandwidth.  Using tighter filters they should be able to get a 100x
> more data throughput than they do.  1 Mhz appears to be worth 1 bit.  Why
> aren't they using 100hz for 1bit?  Tighter filter, vast increase in
> throughput, no more competition from cable/fiber.
>
> just saying, the manufacturers designers should pull their heads out of
> their bosses butts and improve the designs they have instead of reaching
> for higher bands which only function under rare conditions!
> On 3/10/21 7:28 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>
> Everything above 7ghz experiences rain fade.  No vendor can fix that.
> On 3/10/2021 10:25 AM, Jan Van Kort wrote:
>
> Does this unit experience rain fade/fog issues?
> On 3/10/21 7:15 AM, Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] wrote:
>
> AF5X-HD or AF11X if you want to stay in the UBNT ecosystem.
>
> Personally, I’d do 11X because the channel widths needed for backhaul are
> better used in PTMP 5ghz.  11X will get you 500-600mbps at that distance.
>
> If you need more speed, I’d look at Aviat 11Ghz.
>
>
>
> Jim Bouse
> Owner - Brazos WiFi
> 979-999-7000
> http://www.brazoswifi.com
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Jan Van Kort
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 10, 2021 9:04 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] PowerBeam upgrade?
>
>
>
> We're using PowerBeam 5AC ISO for our links between towers.  Is there a
> higher capacity choice available yet?  Our longest links are about 6-7
> miles.
>
> GAMs
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] tower take down

[Colin Stanners]

I think that if you're talking about the power allocated through stickers,
the battle is already lost.

Who owned the tower? Was it clear in the contract? As in that case they
should have no permission to make any changes to it. Was it fenced in or
otherwise had real access control?



On Tue, Mar 9, 2021, 3:51 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

> Hey, we had a tower agreement that included a 60 day notice.  We found
> the tower offline on our monitor system and went to investigate.
> Someone had taken the guts out of the controller and threw them into the
> weeds in the rain and had started removing the tower.  It was a 3 legged
> ham-radio tower 34ft model.  The property owner had sent a weirdly
> worded email just hours before about having her crew rehabilitate our
> tower.  How successful are the warning stickers about tampering with
> telecommunications being a felony?  Has anyone ever enforced that?
>
> GAMS
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Star link travelling and results

[Colin Stanners]

Was Netflix the end of DVDs?

It will be a challenge for sure, but in cases where WISPs can offer
100mbit+ speeds to customers (usually due to few/no trees), they should be
able to compete fine.

Or cases where customers are surrounded by trees and Starlink won't work -
but in those cases they need to be ready to spend up to a few
thousand dollars for a tower for WISP CPE.



On Sun, Mar 7, 2021, 10:42 AM  wrote:

> So this is the END of WISP?
>
> On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 12:00 PM Robert  wrote:
>
>> 20 mile radius from registered address...
>>
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDEtuKgUw_g_channel=NowYouKnow
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Starlink speeds dip already

[Colin Stanners]

Starlink *BETA* . Maybe they're simulating load of a few hundred, or a
thousand, customers on each bird to prepare for when it's actually busy.
(based on the "20Gbps" capacity per sat)

Considering the amount of effort and design that goes into such a massive
and complex system, people should be thankful that it's working with a
good-enough uptime right now.

On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 10:47 AM Dev  wrote:

> Already hearing from folks who have the service that they’re seeing dips
> below 15Mbps, and this at light loads with few customers, we’ll see how
> this scales. Or doesn’t. Are others in different geographies seeing similar?
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Re: [AFMUG] icmp network strangeness

[Colin Stanners]

That sounds like a fun problem, where fun involves undesired removal of
your own hair.

Can you specify where the switches are related to each other, what brand
switches, what monitoring platform, what monitoring interval, any logs or
screenshots?

On Mon, Mar 1, 2021 at 7:26 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

> Sorry not down, they will report exactly 36% packet loss over any duration
> of measurement. They are constantly up/down .
>
> On Mon, Mar 1, 2021 at 5:24 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>
>> I have an issue on a segment of my network where two switches will
>> intermittently start showing as down by icmp/snmp but the problem is only
>> related to the reachability of the device itself and all traffic through
>> the switches is fine, other devices and switches on the segment are fine.
>>
>> Has anyone seen something like this before?
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT I am invincible

[Colin Stanners]

In Canada we have our branches of the crazy anti-mask / anti-vaxxers /
wannabe-Qanon as well, luckily they seem to be much smaller than your
problems, and not as embedded in our politics.

Chuck, now that you have the vaccine, are you feeling any new urges?
https://www.advocate.com/health/2021/2/10/qanons-latest-loony-conspiracy-covid-19-vaccines-turn-people-gay


On Sat, Feb 27, 2021 at 1:20 PM Robert  wrote:

> Yeah, that is the only way it works with the anti-science bend currently
> raging as bad as the pandemic throughout the US these days.  Makes me want
> to move to Canada...
>
> On 2/27/21 10:01 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
> I think the whole mask thing is to prevent the weirdness that would happen
> when a non-masked vaccer encounters a masked non-vaccer. Until we reach a
> point where we think we are knocking it out, it's best for everyone to wear
> a mask to avoid the confusion. That is what I've heard from Tony.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 2/27/2021 9:11 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> Except ol Fauci keeps saying you're not safe, you still need to wear your
> two masks, you're still at risk of catching it, you're still at risk of
> spreading it.
> Pretty excited about J, looks like their single shot will be approved
> forthwith. We have a syringe shortage now so that will help. Europe is
> starting to say astra zenica isnt protecting people over 65, odd that it
> knows ages.
> My dads going ice fishing in wisconsin with his buddy in a couple weeks,
> his buddy got some strings pulled to get his 2 shots out of l eftovers. He
> was super concerned cause everybody packs the restaraunts in the mornings
> and the evenings so hes more comfortable. He runs an hvac company though so
> I dont know how he hasnt caught it, I think hvac guys must be exposed to
> everything in its decayed state that they get dead virus immunizations on
> everything anyway. He cut me a break on a replacement furnace motor monday,
> my squirrel cage was covered in decades of grime and disease from the
> house. Guaranteed there was some dead covid proteins in there from when we
> all had it.
>
> I should have kept the motor and charged people 10 bucks a pop to lick it
> for immunity.
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 27, 2021, 10:42 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Nice to think that of all the things the will ultimately do us in, Covid
>> probably is not going to be it now.
>>
>> *From:* Bill Prince
>> *Sent:* Saturday, February 27, 2021 9:25 AM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT I am invincible
>>
>>
>> Congratulations! We are going in for #2 on Wednesday. After we got #1, we
>> both felt massive relief. When we passed the 2 week mark (when immunity is
>> supposed to start kicking in, we felt another little morale boost. I
>> suspect we will be feeling a bit like you after Wednesday.
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 2/27/2021 8:05 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>
>> Got my second shot yesterday.  Woo Hoo!  Feeling less stress going to
>> Home Depot every time now.
>>
>> --
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>>
>
>
>
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[AFMUG] ePMP 3000L AP - your eviews?

[Colin Stanners]

Hello distinguished AFMUG fellows,

I'm looking at the ePMP 3000L AP to upgrade a few small towers where an
ePMP 3000 AP + MUMIMO omni may be overdoing it. ePMP 3000 has worked nicely
for us, some unexpected AP reboots that Cambium is still troubleshooting
but generally they have been fast and solid.

People that have tried the 3000L - were you able to tell if the "dynamic
filtering" that it lacks vs the full ePMP3000 AP was a big factor? Any
other complaints?

Thanks to all.
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Expensive Cambium parts

[Colin Stanners]

I've been using cheap Monoprice $20 crimpers for many years without issues.
Problems are often the user, not the tool.

On Mon, Feb 1, 2021 at 3:39 PM Carl Peterson 
wrote:

> What crimpers are connectors are en vogue these days.  As tech-proof as
> possible.  We seem to go through phases where we end up with a lot of
> ethernet cable related performance issues / service calls.
>
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2021 at 3:35 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> I would want more than that for that kind of price.
>>
>> I would want to be able to leave the connectors and cable in the room;
>> walk out, and walk back in a few minutes later with the ends all crimped
>> with heat shrink, and Velcro ties holding the new cables in a nice, neat
>> loop.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 2/1/2021 11:45 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
>>
>> Just came across these.  For that price I better be able to just shove a
>> bare Cat5 in one side, and have a heat shrinked end come out the other.  Or
>> is there something else super special about these crimpers.
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
>
> Carl Peterson
>
> *PORT NETWORKS*
>
> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
>
> Baltimore, MD 21202
>
> (410) 637-3707
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Re: [AFMUG] Simple/Cheap ethernet/SNMP 24V battery monitor

[Colin Stanners]

Here's a list of inexpensive network-controlled relays. Some of these
support input voltage monitoring, if you wish to check their specs to see
which do.

DTWonder   $20 CDN   https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001232791244.html



Tinycontrol LAN Controller V2.0   $25 CDN
https://www.i4wifi.eu/en/234467-tinycontrol-lan-ovladac-v2-0



Tinycontrol LAN Controller V3.7  $80 CDN
https://www.i4wifi.eu/en/211103-tinycontrol-lan-ovladac-v3-7



BrickElectric  BEM104 server remote reboot swtich and auto ping monitor $40
CDN
https://www.brickelectric.com/io-system-c-2/bem104-server-remote-reboot-swtich-and-auto-ping-monitor-p-42.html?zenid=031cd6ef9d10c9887bca2917f7217414#.XyCmyKZ7nmE



LAN Ethernet 2 Way Relay Board $20 CDN
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32875281443.html



HHT-NET2D   $30 CDN  https://www.aliexpress.com/i/32878564233.html
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/252637541844



Industrial POE power supply 1 network relay Module $30
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000340390279.html

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 6:36 PM Peter Kranz via AF  wrote:

> I was user SuperRMS boards for monitoring 24V DC battery banks at remote
> sites, but I barely use any of the features those boards provide. I really
> just need a SNMP capable voltage monitor that runs off the 24Vdc of the
> battery it is monitoring. Anyone got a favorite choice?
>
>
>
>
> *Peter Kranz*www.UnwiredLtd.com 
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] geolocation

[Colin Stanners]

There's a few companies and organizations with their own GeoIP databases,
Maxmind is the biggest, and there is a funny (and frightening) story about
the risk in those assumptions:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/08/10/lawsuit-how-a-quiet-kansas-home-wound-up-with-600-million-ip-addresses-and-a-world-of-trouble/

Most companies try to do the work themselves to reduce the risk of networks
faking their location. Maxmind allows users to request updates at
https://support.maxmind.com/geoip-data-correction-request/ .


On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 12:38 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Is there just one geo location database?
> Is there a cost to get your IPs put in the database(s)?
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: FB

[Colin Stanners]

One good thing is that AFMUG's main purpose/topic is understood by
everyone. I don't filter out all OT posts as some
relatively-WISP/FISP-unrelated technical topics are useful.

But most political threads, as others have said, don't result in much
useful change or new information in the end. Everyone's opinions are
already pretty solidified. Instead of creating many new mailing list
filters or categories, I think it'd be better avoided altogether once
conversations start or become too political.


On Fri, Jan 8, 2021, 9:30 AM Bill Prince  wrote:

> Many times I want to post about something that is peripherally related to
> the industry. However, it may not be direct; Starlink news might be one of
> those. That is safely OT, and if someone thinks it isn't, then fine. No
> harm, no foul.
>
> However, I also know personally many of the people on this list, and it is
> helpful to me to hear what they have to say. Sometimes that dips into
> politics. I don't want to lose those friends.
>
> Putting in filters for off topic items should be a no brainer for each and
> every individual on this list. Perhaps a different tag for such topics?
> Maybe WOT (Way Off Topic), or NSFW, or POL as a prefix? Is that like having
> your cake and eating it too?
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 1/8/2021 7:22 AM, D. Bernardi wrote:
>
>
>
> My .02, as mostly a lurker...
>
> A agree 100% with this statement. Some political views seem to be OK.
>
> For an RF rookie, this list has some invaluable technical content for me
> even though after a few responses threads can go on a tangent.  Signal to
> noise can be rather low at times but I still find it valuable overall.
>
> Tagging the subject with OT should be a managable way to deal with
> non-technical content.
>
>
>
> At 02:14 PM 1/7/2021, you wrote:
>
> Chuck,
>
> I know it is your list and your rules, but you can't say crap like "The DC
> crap today does not hold a candle in magnitude to the Portland and Seattle
> crap largely done by the other side.  Give and take."  and not expect it
> to start a political argument.  I think you are abundantly and dangerously
> wrong about that but I'm (mostly) holding my tongue.  We can't have a list
> where one sided inflammatory BS like that is allowed but countering it is
> not.   We either allow political discussions, which I'm fine with, or we
> make a no politics rule.  The latter seems to be the best option as there
> are too many brilliant minds who we will lose if we keep it up. Â
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:37 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
> Sorry.  I don’t want to go back to the days of lent, but we have to
> remain civil to do so.Â
> Â
> The DC crap today does not hold a candle in magnitude to the Portland and
> Seattle crap largely done by the other side.  Give and take.
> Â
> Folks wanna blow off steam.  It will be history tomorrow.Â
> Â
> No need to pollute our list here with that energy, from either side.Â
> Â
> From: Steve Jones 
> Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 3:32 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: FB
> Â
> youre no fun dad
> Â
> Lent?
> Â
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:31 PM Chuck McCown via AF  > wrote:
> Kill thread.  We had been well behaved but nobody wants to see a bunch of
> F words in a subject line.  There have been complaints.Â
> Â
> From: Mathew Howard 
> Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 3:23 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit
> Â
> That's the real problem. I've come to the conclusion that almost no
> so-called news having anything to do with politics is honest or reliable,
> no matter which side it comes from. Almost all of it is slanted (if not
> outright dishonest) to either fit their own view or manipulate their
> consumers into supporting a particular agenda. Unfortunately, there seems
> to be very little that can be done to fix it.
> Â
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:17 PM Craig House  > wrote:
> " a nugget of truth with a layer of bullshit on top"Â  Is exactly how I
> take every bit of news from every outlet on every station.   It is even
> more the case when the source is a politician or anyone with a political
> agenda.  This includes most of the people on this list.   Very few on
> either side can really provide an objective argument on politics today.Â
> I'd include myself in that group therefore I tend to just delete or not
> reply to these group messages because it only furthers the divide.   I
> honestly dont see any long term solution to the divide we have today. Â
> Mainstream media isn't going to help.  Congress isn't going to help and
> Trump isn't going to help.  Neither is anyone's opinion on this list
> Â
> Â
> --
> From: "Adam Moffett" >
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" >
> Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 4:09:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit
> Â
>
> Look at the evidence closely and in each case you'll find a nugget of
> truth with a layer of 

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Unsubscribe

[Colin Stanners]

Respected and knowledgeable people too, which is even more worrying.

I know a bartender who ended up saying "no politics or religion in my bar,
you can discuss those anywhere else, but find another topic here - I've got
enough of the stupid fights". May be time for that, or at least a time-out
for the biggest mouths.

On Thu, Jan 7, 2021 at 11:35 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Not joking.  People are leaving...  Thanks guys...
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 7, 2021 10:28 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Unsubscribe
>
> Unsubscribe
>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Need a 200-400 watt load

[Colin Stanners]

Options I've used are
1) 3-4x "round ceiling" type lighbulb holders wirth 100W bulbs mounted on a
piece of wood, using PC power cords with the ends cut off to make them
plug-in. Inexpensive and load is customizable by choosing how many to plug
in. Just need to be careful of storage as the bulbs are delicate.
2) heater with a low-heat mode that takes about 300-400W.


On Thu, Jan 7, 2021 at 8:58 AM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> My UPS needs to be at 30% load to get a runtime load test.  I'm at 11% (of
> 750va) with the BH and AP up there.
>
> If memory serves, back in 2015 I used a couple CRT monitors.  Those are
> long gone.  The only idea I have is a space heater, but that's 850-900
> watts and will probably be too much.
>
> Short of carrying up 20 Ubiquiti AP/POE and some surge strips, anyone have
> any clever ideas?  I have to carry this up 5 flights of stairs so please be
> gentle :)
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: FB

[Colin Stanners]

I can see why... There's infinite forums on the internet that are full of,
and perfect hosts for, endless acrimonious political debate and immature
speech. Those are well outside of the AFMUG WISP/FISP topics, I would argue
even outside of the "nearly-WISP-related" OT threads.


On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 5:02 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Sadly, it appears Ken has unsubscribed...
>
>
>
> *From:* Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 6, 2021 3:59 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: FB
>
> I remember back in the 90s when the reds had both houses of congress and
> the presidency.
>
> Funny, they did not seem to enjoy a railroad track for anything they could
> think of.  Bills still had to battle through.  It took both sides.  It will
> not be any different for the blues this this time.
>
> There really are good folks on both sides and the system really does work
> for the most part.
>
> Sadly, today is not unusual...
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unrest_in_the_United_States
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Washington,_D.C.,_riots
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 6, 2021 3:52 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: FB
>
> [image: 20202021.jpg]
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:38 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Sorry.  I don’t want to go back to the days of lent, but we have to
>> remain civil to do so.
>>
>> The DC crap today does not hold a candle in magnitude to the Portland and
>> Seattle crap largely done by the other side.  Give and take.
>>
>> Folks wanna blow off steam.  It will be history tomorrow.
>>
>> No need to pollute our list here with that energy, from either side.
>>
>> *From:* Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 6, 2021 3:32 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: FB
>>
>> youre no fun dad
>>
>> Lent?
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:31 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Kill thread.  We had been well behaved but nobody wants to see a bunch
>>> of F words in a subject line.  There have been complaints.
>>>
>>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 6, 2021 3:23 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit
>>>
>>> That's the real problem. I've come to the conclusion that almost no
>>> so-called news having anything to do with politics is honest or reliable,
>>> no matter which side it comes from. Almost all of it is slanted (if not
>>> outright dishonest) to either fit their own view or manipulate their
>>> consumers into supporting a particular agenda. Unfortunately, there seems
>>> to be very little that can be done to fix it.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:17 PM Craig House 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 " a nugget of truth with a layer of bullshit on top"  Is exactly how I
 take every bit of news from every outlet on every station.   It is even
 more the case when the source is a politician or anyone with a political
 agenda.  This includes most of the people on this list.   Very few on
 either side can really provide an objective argument on politics today.
 I'd include myself in that group therefore I tend to just delete or not
 reply to these group messages because it only furthers the divide.   I
 honestly dont see any long term solution to the divide we have today.
 Mainstream media isn't going to help.  Congress isn't going to help and
 Trump isn't going to help.  Neither is anyone's opinion on this list


 --
 *From: *"Adam Moffett" 
 *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
 *Sent: *Wednesday, January 6, 2021 4:09:22 PM
 *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit


 Look at the evidence closely and in each case you'll find a nugget of
 truth with a layer of bullshit on top.  That so many people are so
 thoroughly fooled by it is the most distressing part.  Look closer.  Stop
 being a fool.

 The "coup" is when the loser thinks he can win by pretending hard
 enough.


 On 1/6/2021 5:05 PM, justsumname wrote:

 an election that is not conducted according to law is not an
 election.   it's a coup.
 Worse... if the 'election' is not transparent, verifiable, and treats
 every voter the same, it's not an "election".
 Worse ... if poll watchers are bullied and physically threatened...
 that is intolerable.

 hereistheevidence.com   --- in case you dare open your mind to truth

 Patton was correct, and so was that McCarthy guy, who was probably a
 commie plant because he did a great job discrediting 'his' message.

 All that is left is communism or war.   That was the plan all along and
 only 'crazy' people  -- and people who escaped communist societies to come
 warn us -- saw it or believed in it.

 I'll sign off with this, 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: F***ing Bullshit

[Colin Stanners]

Welcome to 2021 Everyone!


On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 2:50 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> WTF...third world country tactics...
> Insurrection...
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Re: [AFMUG] Anterix announces first major 900 MHz lease agreement | FierceWireless

[Colin Stanners]

896-901Mhz and 935-940Mhz - 5Mhz each direction - portions of that cut into
up to 100 channels. These folks are slicing the pie realy thin.

On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 8:00 AM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> "Anterix announces first major 900 MHz lease agreement | FierceWireless"
> https://www.fiercewireless.com/private-wireless/anterix-announces-first-major-900-mhz-lease-agreement
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik 1072 Frustrations

[Colin Stanners]

This last year, I've seen a MikroTik CCR1072 switch from long being
rock-solid to now having occasional random reboots (from watchdog) or 100%
CPU usage, which strangles the BGP process. In the latter case,
tools->profile would show the firewall taking 100% of CPU, even after
temporarily disabling all firewall filter and NAT rules and connection
tracking. Not fun.

MT tech support did not seem super helpful or interested, mostly
recommending to disable watchdog (unacceptable on a production router) or
to upgrade firmware (without specifying the suspected cause of the problem
or nature of the fix).

Tried 1 update, that didn't seem to help, have now tried another...


On Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 11:38 PM Steven Kenney  wrote:

> MIkrotik has been rock solid for me for years.  Until this year and the
> 1072's.  Random reboots set off by watchdog timer on all of my 1072's.
> Some more than others.  Threads in the forum all discuss the same problem
> exactly.  Its a connection tracking issue.. however I need connection
> tracking on one particular router.  I've adjusted everything I could.
> Firmware and board firmware all up to date etc.  Happens randomly with low
> levels of traffic,  high levels of traffic,  sometimes a couple times a
> day,  sometimes weeks.  No DDOS evidence at all from upstream routers.
> Configs checked and rechecked by third party experts.  I graph everything
> about the Mikrotik and there are no clues or anything abnormal happening
> before the crash.  Plenty of memory, disk space,  CPU etc.Replaces all
> the trannies, power cables and such.  Not running BGP only OSPF on the one
> that is giving me the most trouble.
>
> Even have a serial console cable plugged into them to my opengear and set
> it to log pretty much everything to console including the kernel and
> nothing.  A hard freeze.
>
> Then there is Mikrotik support...  I've never needed their support before
> until now.  So I put a ticket in and the shitty attitude I'm getting from
> them seems like they KNOW there is something wrong with the hardware and
> they are intentionally not being helpful.  It is pretty clear to see with
> all the people reporting this issue that there IS an issue.
>
> If this is any indication of how things are going to go with Mikrotik on
> the newer hardware going forware I think its time to jump to an enterprise
> level system.  Juniper most likely.  Shame because they are just about
> keeping up with the demands with their hardware.  Getting closer to 100Gbps
> etc and ROS7 ... but at their current pace I think we've outgrew them.
>
> All the threads discussing this issue has been absolutely quiet when it
> comes to Mikrotik jumping in to mention or try to help troubleshoot.  I
> think they know they had bad hardware out there and do not want to honor
> warranties.  I've heard rumors of bad batches of 1072's.
>
> Anyone else encounter this?
>
>
>
> [image: logo] 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * STEVEN KENNEY *
> DIRECTOR OF GLOBAL CONNECTIVITY & CONTINUITY A: 158 Erie St. N |
> Leamington ON
> E: st...@wavedirect.org | P: 519-737-9283
> W: www.wavedirect.net
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[AFMUG] Fwd: FCC ID Z8H89FT0062 Application Processed : Cambium Networks Inc. for New Equipment

[Colin Stanners]

Coming out... by why does a radio need 512MB RAM (if my reading of the RAM
chips is correct)?

-- Forwarded message -
From: FCC ID Alert 
Date: Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 3:57 PM
Subject: FCC ID Z8H89FT0062 Application Processed : Cambium Networks Inc.
for New Equipment
To: 


FCC ID Application Processed For Cambium Networks Inc. for New Equipment.
FCC ID Z8H89FT0062

Equipment: ePMP 5 GHz Force 425 SM / ePMP 5 GHz Force 400C
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Re: [AFMUG] AF Digest, Vol 31, Issue 401

[Colin Stanners]

If you can see the below, you have not actually unsubscribed to the
"digests" version.  I used the weblink below to have it request an
unsubscribe that you can confirm via email. Then if you wish you can
subscribe to this list again, turning digests off.

On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 9:17 AM jerry bickle 
wrote:

> I’m new to this forum.  I unsubscribed to “digests”.  But it seems like
> every comment someone makes is a digest?  A new volume 31, issue xxx?
>
>
>
> Jerry Bickle
>
> President
>
> RF Design Services, LLC
>
> Cell: 405.650.3366
>
> Fax: 405.330.1310
>
> Email: je...@rfdesignservices.com
>
> WEB: www.rfdesignservices.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *AF  on behalf of "af-requ...@af.afmug.com"
> 
> *Reply-To: *"af@af.afmug.com" 
> *Date: *Monday, December 14, 2020 at 3:40 PM
> *To: *"af@af.afmug.com" 
> *Subject: *AF Digest, Vol 31, Issue 401
>
>
>
> Send AF mailing list submissions to
>
> af@af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__af.afmug.com_mailman_listinfo_af-5Faf.afmug.com=DwICAg=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM=oZldojrM2-7OE-SOcQyzFlyOFVuvqI9-MKCJpgPtw5o=8-srCncMFDRmhkNIxrtV79sOYukiYBCdllb7TsGKZtQ=TYZpzbsAdOKLWnJu0Pw7yXPA4SLTJN5HB1P_NObFU0Y=
>
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>
> af-requ...@af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>
> af-ow...@af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>
> than "Re: Contents of AF digest..."
>
>
>
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>
>
>1. Re: OT: Not all Texans are idiots (Chuck McCown)
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> Message: 1
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2020 14:39:27 -0700
>
> From: "Chuck McCown" 
>
> To: "'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'" 
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Not all Texans are idiots
>
> Message-ID: <69788C3818704EA2AD385441D295280D@MCCOWNTECH.local>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
>
> I remember all the grups being upset about Kennedy, but I didn?t
> understand the issue.
>
>
>
> From: James Howard
>
> Sent: Monday, December 14, 2020 2:35 PM
>
> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Not all Texans are idiots
>
>
>
> Well?? that is a lifelong issue for some people.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
>
> Sent: Monday, December 14, 2020 3:15 PM
>
> To: af@af.afmug.com
>
> Cc: Chuck McCown 
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Not all Texans are idiots
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I was still probably crapping in my pants back then.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Bill Prince
>
>
>
> Sent: Monday, December 14, 2020 1:05 PM
>
>
>
> To: af@af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Not all Texans are idiots
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I'm close to the same age as Ken, and I saw him on the garssy knoll.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> bpOn 12/14/2020 12:01 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>
>
>
>   One case is actually still in court.
>
>
>
>   In one case in Pennsylvania they were granted a court order saying they
> had to allow observers closer than 6 feet, but they lost that that one on
> appeal.
>
>
>
>   Roughly 50 other cases were dismissed.  Some were due to lack of
> standing, some because the court felt it couldn't provide the relief being
> asked for, some for being moot, some because the evidence was insufficient.
>
>
>
>   In the famous "Release the Kraken" case, the judge responded that you
> have affidavits from people swearing that they believe something could have
> happened, not saying they actually saw something.  Belief that something
> could have happened is not evidence that it did.  Like I believe Ken Hohhof
> is old enough to be the second gunman on the grassy knoll.  I could swear
> to that in an affidavit, but that's not evidence that he shot JFK.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   On 12/14/2020 2:52 PM, Chuck Macenski wrote:
>
>
>
> Didn't they go to court in the states and lose?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 12:45 PM Steve Jones <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>   " I think the argument your making (and correct me if I'm wrong) is
> that they won't feel like they really lost unless they get to make their
> arguments in a courtroom and THEN lose.  I'm saying they'll feel like they
> didn't really lose no matter what,"
>
>
>
>   Yes. but its separating the Tim McVeighs from the Housewife Bettys.
>
>
>
>   So you have something like 80 percent of the trump voters thinking
> he was robbed (oddly enough a CNN poll showed 10 percent of democrat voters
> agreeing). Of that 80 percent, there probably 25 percent youre not going to
> get to ever listen to anything, theyre the ones who know alex jones is
> garbage but still listen to him, they also believe theres a pizza joint
> selling child sex slaves to rich people, theyre as bad as the cult of left
> 25 percent that still believe the russian collusion 

Re: [AFMUG] Google News - Cambium Networks settles a lawsuit with Ubiquiti Inc for selling hacking firmware

[Colin Stanners]

IIRC, when a user buys a Ubnt radio and first logs in to it, they must
click a checkmark that they agree to an EULA. I assume that it's referring
to that, that Cambium is "making" users violate it.

On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 11:58 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

> Why would Cambium have an EUA agreement with UBNT?  It is their radio.  If
> they allow users to flash it, they are not doing anything wrong.
>
> *From:* Matt Hoppes
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 12, 2020 10:44 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google News - Cambium Networks settles a lawsuit
> with Ubiquiti Inc for selling hacking firmware
>
> Violated the EUA which said you can’t load other software in the radio.
>
> On Dec 12, 2020, at 12:43 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>
> 
>
> Not sure on the details, but the allegation was that they "reverse
> engineered" Ubiquiti's off-the-shelf hardware.
>
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 12/12/2020 9:32 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> I never understood the argument.  What exactly did Cambium do wrong?
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 12, 2020 10:09 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google News - Cambium Networks settles a lawsuit
> with Ubiquiti Inc for selling hacking firmware
>
> I hope cambium does it again with something else ubnt now just to spite
> them. Whatever they paid has to be nothing compared to the volume of
> customers they rolled over
>
> On Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 7:47 AM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEFvp2xGH5DLp_0VFw74VGwYqGAgEKg8IACoHCAowjo_YBzCo6Ugwi9XQBg?hl=en-US=US=US%3Aen
>>
>> --
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX gets $886 million from FCC to subsidize Starlink in 35 states

[Colin Stanners]

Is JAB/Digis/RIse still the biggest name down there in WISPs?

Sounds like Canada's Xplornet in size and constant acquisitions; don't know
where they are in comparison for quality of service and support.

On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 2:10 PM Eric Muehleisen  wrote:

> I think they are similar to AMG/Nextlink. Gobble up CAF, RDOF, CARES,
> whatever they can. Then come in and trash the noise floor for the
> incumbents.
>
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 1:54 PM Colin Stanners  wrote:
>
>> I'm more interested in who is "LTD Broadband" which was awarded a bigger
>> $1.32 billion to serve 528,088 locations in 15 states;
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 1:46 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> Well, f**k me.
>>>
>>>
>>> https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/12/spacex-gets-886-million-from-fcc-to-subsidize-starlink-in-35-states/
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX gets $886 million from FCC to subsidize Starlink in 35 states

[Colin Stanners]

Did many WISPs compete for it? I would've thought it'd be fiber providers
but I guess that their pricing for the heavily-rural areas was too high.


On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 1:57 PM Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> Is there a map that shows who won what area?  I see the release showing
> who won how much.
>
> > On Dec 7, 2020, at 2:52 PM, Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
> >
> > 
> >
> >> On Dec 7, 2020, at 2:50 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
> >>
> >> No thanks.
> >>
> >>
> >> bp
> >> 
> >>
>  On 12/7/2020 11:45 AM, fiber...@mail.com wrote:
> >>> Well, f**k me.
> >>>
> >>>
> https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/12/spacex-gets-886-million-from-fcc-to-subsidize-starlink-in-35-states/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> AF mailing list
> >> AF@af.afmug.com
> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] SpaceX gets $886 million from FCC to subsidize Starlink in 35 states

[Colin Stanners]

I'm more interested in who is "LTD Broadband" which was awarded a bigger
$1.32 billion to serve 528,088 locations in 15 states;

On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 1:46 PM  wrote:

> Well, f**k me.
>
>
> https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/12/spacex-gets-886-million-from-fcc-to-subsidize-starlink-in-35-states/
>
>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Di-Electric Grease on Cat5/6 connections... Yes/no?

[Colin Stanners]

Bill, without DC4, how long does it take before you see effects on devices
in the worst areas? How much difference if the devices are IP6x rated (e.g.
PTP6x0) or not (e.g. Canopy SMs)?

Being in those salt-infused zones sounds annoying... but then in Manitoba
it'll be down to -40 at points this winter, and this year due to COVID I
can't leave the house to go to other indoor locations for fun, so the sun
belt recently sounds reay nice. sigh.

On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 10:18 AM Bill Prince  wrote:

> Being in a coastal zone, we often get salt-infused rain/air during storms.
> Anything metal will be affected. DC4 is a good choice, and is practically
> mandatory on any of our installations that are within 2 or 3 miles from the
> shore. There other choices that are a little bit more viscous.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 12/7/2020 8:00 AM, Colin Stanners wrote:
>
> Never, haven't seen a reason to do so - but areas of high salt / humidity
> may be different, is Florida one of those?
>
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 8:47 AM Paul McCall  wrote:
>
>> Haven’t had this subject come up lately, but I think at one point we used
>> dielectric grease (spray I think) on outdoor ethernet connections.
>>
>>
>>
>> Seems like we stopped a looong time ago I found out in our tech meeting
>> this AM LOL
>>
>>
>>
>> Do you guys use dielectric on outdoor ethernet… *Occasionally, Always,
>> Never* ?
>>
>>
>>
>> If so, what brand do you use?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
>> *Paul McCall, President *
>>
>> *Florida Broadband / PDMNet*
>>
>> *658 Old Dixie Highway*
>>
>> *Vero Beach, FL 32962*
>>
>> *772-564-6800*
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Di-Electric Grease on Cat5/6 connections... Yes/no?

[Colin Stanners]

The grease isn't there to conduct - it's pushed out of the way from the
contacts - it's there to block the port from other materials getting in.

On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 11:17 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> I have never understood how you can grease an electrical connection and
> have it conduct.  But it does.  I guess contact pressure at the microscopic
> level extrudes the grease.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Monday, December 7, 2020 9:18 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Di-Electric Grease on Cat5/6 connections... Yes/no?
>
>
>
> Being in a coastal zone, we often get salt-infused rain/air during storms.
> Anything metal will be affected. DC4 is a good choice, and is practically
> mandatory on any of our installations that are within 2 or 3 miles from the
> shore. There other choices that are a little bit more viscous.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
> On 12/7/2020 8:00 AM, Colin Stanners wrote:
>
> Never, haven't seen a reason to do so - but areas of high salt / humidity
> may be different, is Florida one of those?
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 8:47 AM Paul McCall  wrote:
>
> Haven’t had this subject come up lately, but I think at one point we used
> dielectric grease (spray I think) on outdoor ethernet connections.
>
>
>
> Seems like we stopped a looong time ago I found out in our tech meeting
> this AM LOL
>
>
>
> Do you guys use dielectric on outdoor ethernet… *Occasionally, Always,
> Never* ?
>
>
>
> If so, what brand do you use?
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> *Paul McCall, President *
>
> *Florida Broadband / PDMNet*
>
> *658 Old Dixie Highway*
>
> *Vero Beach, FL 32962*
>
> *772-564-6800*
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Di-Electric Grease on Cat5/6 connections... Yes/no?

[Colin Stanners]

Never, haven't seen a reason to do so - but areas of high salt / humidity
may be different, is Florida one of those?

On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 8:47 AM Paul McCall  wrote:

> Haven’t had this subject come up lately, but I think at one point we used
> dielectric grease (spray I think) on outdoor ethernet connections.
>
>
>
> Seems like we stopped a looong time ago I found out in our tech meeting
> this AM LOL
>
>
>
> Do you guys use dielectric on outdoor ethernet… *Occasionally, Always,
> Never* ?
>
>
>
> If so, what brand do you use?
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> *Paul McCall, President *
>
> *Florida Broadband / PDMNet*
>
> *658 Old Dixie Highway*
>
> *Vero Beach, FL 32962*
>
> *772-564-6800*
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] I QUIT! jk

[Colin Stanners]

https://web.archive.org/web/20060701061713/http://www.wispcon.info/

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 2:15 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Remember WISPCON?  I think I attended WISPCON II in something like 2002.
> There was some startup called Motorola with a product called Canopy.  Also
> a competitor called Trango.  I probably still have a binder from the show
> in a bookcase somewhere.  Not sure if Wireless Beehive existed yet.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Friday, December 4, 2020 1:38 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] I QUIT! jk
>
>
>
> That's how I came to create my email address (part15 Skyline Broadband
> Service). In my mind this place is still part 15, even though we manage to
> cover quite a range of topics.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
> On 12/4/2020 11:31 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> One day, mid day Michael was upset because someone cross posted or wrongly
> posted something about Motorola in a Trango list or some such thing.  He
> was pretty much a list nazi about that because you had to subscribe to each
> list and he didn’t want Motorola folks from answering Trango questions if
> they were not a subscriber to both lists or something like that.
>
>
>
> In any event he was grouchy and trying to police this kind of stuff.  And
> then he sent an email with I QUIT as the subject line.
>
> Then, like immediately, the list serve went down and stayed down.  I was
> getting emails all afternoon about it and so I had my guys start up a list
> serv, put all the Motorola people on it and away we go.
>
>
>
> In a day or two, Michael became aware his site was down and fixed it but
> by then ... the barn door had been left open.
>
>
>
> I am sure he never forgave me.  But we did it out of a want to keep in
> contact rather than malice.  We had no idea the meaning of I QUIT.  As it
> turns out he was just frustrated and the outage was just coincidental.
>
>
>
> Pretty sure part 15 went out of business because of this.
>
>
>
> *From:* Adam Moffett
>
> *Sent:* Friday, December 4, 2020 6:57 AM
>
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] I QUIT! jk
>
>
>
> What was the deal with Bullit anyway?  Some sort of control issues?
>
> On 12/2/2020 4:59 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Paul McCall
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 2, 2020 2:52 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Favorite AP for tower locating for techs
>
>
>
> Its all good Ken 
>
> Didn’t mean to sound defensive LOL.
>
> But if I get any more crap, I QUIT  hahahah
>
> (only us “long-times” will get that reference)
>
> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com  *On
> Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 2, 2020 4:29 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com
> 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Favorite AP for tower locating for techs
>
> I didn’t mean that to be an insult, more like kudos, you honey badger you.
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Paul McCall
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 2, 2020 3:16 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Favorite AP for tower locating for techs
>
> Not in total agreement with that assessment Ken.
>
> 20 years of having a fixed wireless division without really working
> aggressively for customer acquisition, over 1000 customers, while doing a
> bunch of other things.  Network running like a well-oiled machine, less
> than 10 tech phone calls per 24 hours, sometimes just 2 or 3.  We are well
> aware of future proofing and are doing that wherever possible.  I think we
> have a few years at least even at 2.4, running 45 degree sectors, and
> smaller fill towers.  We overlay what we can in 5 Ghz to give peak speeds.
> Licensed BH links wherever possible.   If I had a local company that could
> provide 50Mbit plans for less than Mr. musk, I would take it all day long.
> Not everyone would of course.  ATT has had fixed wireless in 80% of our
> coverage area, and we have lost 4 customers in 2 years to it.
>
> But, I have other businesses, and a recording musician if that industry
> ever comes back.
>
> They key is to be a honey badger at whatever you are doing!
>
> I’m good 
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 2, 2020 4:07 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Favorite AP for tower locating for techs
>
> You are a brave man trying to make a business out of NLOS fixed wireless.
> On the one hand, it’s magic not science.  On the other hand, Elon Musk and
> T-Mobile are wanting to eat your lunch, not to mention government funded
> fiber.
>
> I think it’s like getting people to pay to see you juggle running
> chainsaws, while they could instead watch Netflix or play Call Of Duty.
> Very difficult, yet customers would rather be doing something else.
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 2, 2020 2:49 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] OT vac ex in freezing temps

[Colin Stanners]

Some excavator manufacturers have "arctic" upgrade packages. My
understanding is that as long as the vacuum truck is stored inside a warm
shop when not in use, the clean water tank will have enough thermal mass to
not freeze during most workdays. The vac design may be passing the engine
exhaust underneath the tank to warm it too. A heater on the outgoing water
helps protect the rest of the circulation system. Employees being careful
of freezing risk is important too, not letting things "sit".

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 1:19 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Trying to figure out how to keep my vacuum excavators working in low
> temps.  Thinking of perhaps a heat exchanger dumping engine heat via the
> water jacket or exhaust into the water tank.  Thinking of an air purge that
> would blow out the hose every time they are done using it.  Perhaps some
> kind of propane heater to warm up the water tank.
>
> Looked at heated hoses but most of those are for the spray foam industry.
> Might work.
>
> Any other ideas?  How do they do it in your part of the world Colin?
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
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>
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[AFMUG] OT? climbing on meth

[Colin Stanners]

 https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/woman-who-climbed-crane
-in-winnipeg-likely-using-methamphetamine-police-1.5214303


We have had new wireless installers that don't like climbing over 40ft. I
jokingly chatted our HR... "if she gets off the drugs, do you want to hire
her?"
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Re: [AFMUG] Repairs

[Colin Stanners]

Assuming that you mean "who does it other than Cambium", Paul McCall's
PDMNet used to do it - not sure if they still do - WirelessUnits in
Pennsylvania too.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 8:58 AM Matt  wrote:

> Who all does cambium 450 repairs etc?
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Arecibo Collapse Video

[Colin Stanners]

Today I'm annoyed, and a bit worried, because one of our further towers
needs UPS batteries replaced... this puts things in perspective.

On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 11:42 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> WOW
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Gino A. Villarini" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Thursday, December 3, 2020 11:31:43 AM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Arecibo Collapse Video
>
> https://www.nsf.gov/news/special_reports/arecibo/
>
>
>
>
>
> *Gino*
> *Villarini *Founder/President
> @gvillarini
> t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
> [image: aeronet-logo]  [image: inc500]
>  [image: fb-logo]
>   [image: insta-logo]
>   [image: in-logo]
>   [image:
> tw-logo]
> 
>   [image: yt-logo]
> 
> www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
>
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Can anybody make these ?

[Colin Stanners]

APC is better for return loss, but from what I see no commonly used fiber
systems care that much about return loss (only old analog-over-fiber
systems?)

I had standardized our company on SC/UPC since the connector worked
everywhere - patch panels (not too tight like the tiny LC), SFPs (we use
BiDi so only need one connector, can fit an SC), NIDs.

Unfortunately, many 10Gbit BiDi SFPs are only available easily in LC/UPC.
And some GPON ONU CPEs are SC/APC. We have adapters for those cases but
it's annoying to move away from the standard.

On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 10:01 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> The FS blog post seems to say PC was first and UPC was an improved
> version.  Sounds like PC-UPC-APC is good-better-best, at least for return
> loss.
>
>
>
> Are you saying to use APC instead of UPC?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 3, 2020 9:53 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Can anybody make these ?
>
>
>
> Don't know what PC is.  LC is the teeny thing that goes in an SFP.
>
>
>
> UPC is uniform blue
>
>
>
> APC is angled green
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 10:41 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Not being a fiber guy, I didn’t know the difference between PC, UPC and
> APC, so I had to look it up:
>
>
> https://community.fs.com/blog/pc-vs-upc-vs-apc-connector-selecting-the-right-fiber-connector-type.html
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 3, 2020 9:25 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Can anybody make these ?
>
>
>
> They screwed us on our optitap premade as well.  See if you can find a DLX
> field install kit for ~$10.  We got field install optitap for $10 and will
> splice SC/APC on the other end (in which case you'd splice LC-UPC).
>
> For the record drop cables with LC is pretty weird and UPC is really
> really weird.
>
>
>
> Don't expect Commscope to get any better on lead times or accurate ship
> dates.
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 4:21 PM Paul McCall  wrote:
>
> Order placed months ago with Commscope (through a distributor) and
> Commscope has pushed back expected delivery until February
>
>
>
> FXDXK1A0010F Cable, Drop, Flat, Dielectric
>
> DLX, 10 ft. - MINI DLX CABLE to connect
>
> Mini-MST DLX to LC-UPC
>
>
>
> Need 25 to 50 of these  (they are custom as normally they don’t make them
> with an LC-UPC end)
>
>
>
> *Paul McCall, President *
>
> *Florida Broadband / PDMNet*
>
> *658 Old Dixie Highway*
>
> *Vero Beach, FL 32962*
>
> *772-564-6800*
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Can anybody make these ?

[Colin Stanners]

Ken, with many WISPs getting into fiber, are you looking to do that in your
area, or does that not match the area / your corporate goals?

On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 9:41 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Not being a fiber guy, I didn’t know the difference between PC, UPC and
> APC, so I had to look it up:
>
>
> https://community.fs.com/blog/pc-vs-upc-vs-apc-connector-selecting-the-right-fiber-connector-type.html
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 3, 2020 9:25 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Can anybody make these ?
>
>
>
> They screwed us on our optitap premade as well.  See if you can find a DLX
> field install kit for ~$10.  We got field install optitap for $10 and will
> splice SC/APC on the other end (in which case you'd splice LC-UPC).
>
> For the record drop cables with LC is pretty weird and UPC is really
> really weird.
>
>
>
> Don't expect Commscope to get any better on lead times or accurate ship
> dates.
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 4:21 PM Paul McCall  wrote:
>
> Order placed months ago with Commscope (through a distributor) and
> Commscope has pushed back expected delivery until February
>
>
>
> FXDXK1A0010F Cable, Drop, Flat, Dielectric
>
> DLX, 10 ft. - MINI DLX CABLE to connect
>
> Mini-MST DLX to LC-UPC
>
>
>
> Need 25 to 50 of these  (they are custom as normally they don’t make them
> with an LC-UPC end)
>
>
>
> *Paul McCall, President *
>
> *Florida Broadband / PDMNet*
>
> *658 Old Dixie Highway*
>
> *Vero Beach, FL 32962*
>
> *772-564-6800*
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Can anybody make these ?

[Colin Stanners]

Why would you say that UPC is really really weird? We use it quite
exclusively as a fiber standard, except some GPON units are APC so we use
adapters there.

On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 9:25 AM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> They screwed us on our optitap premade as well.  See if you can find a DLX
> field install kit for ~$10.  We got field install optitap for $10 and will
> splice SC/APC on the other end (in which case you'd splice LC-UPC).
>
> For the record drop cables with LC is pretty weird and UPC is really
> really weird.
>
> Don't expect Commscope to get any better on lead times or accurate ship
> dates.
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 4:21 PM Paul McCall  wrote:
>
>> Order placed months ago with Commscope (through a distributor) and
>> Commscope has pushed back expected delivery until February
>>
>>
>>
>> FXDXK1A0010F Cable, Drop, Flat, Dielectric
>>
>> DLX, 10 ft. - MINI DLX CABLE to connect
>>
>> Mini-MST DLX to LC-UPC
>>
>>
>>
>> Need 25 to 50 of these  (they are custom as normally they don’t make them
>> with an LC-UPC end)
>>
>>
>>
>> *Paul McCall, President *
>>
>> *Florida Broadband / PDMNet*
>>
>> *658 Old Dixie Highway*
>>
>> *Vero Beach, FL 32962*
>>
>> *772-564-6800*
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Water heaters

[Colin Stanners]

The latter brand is likely Rinnai or Rheem. I'm surprised that you saw
issues with Takagi, I thought that they were a higher quality brand.


On Sun, Nov 29, 2020, 11:58 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> I am generally the first one up.  I turn on the shower then the hot water
> tap to brush my teeth.  By the time my teeth are done the water temp has
> stabilized.  I have a 200Kbtu heater (actually 2 of them for two parts of
> the house).  I never seem to notice much of a temp difference when you are
> in the shower and someone starts something else.  You can hear the heater
> instantly rev up when more flow is detected.  Takagi were crap.  Rhinni
> have lasted much longer.  Not sure I spelled those correctly.
>
> *From:* Nate Burke
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 29, 2020 10:43 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Water heaters
>
> I have a tankless for 10 years now and love it.  I would replace a tank
> heater with a tankless any time.  We have semi-hard water.  City water,
> combination of river/well.  Wife would like a watersoftener, I think it's
> fine.
>
> For our 2 person household, it's been perfect.  Once you are in the
> shower, you never have to adjust the temperature no matter how long you
> stay in.  When my sister came to visit, she commented 'How do you know when
> to get out?  The water never gets cold"
>
> However, Caveats they don't tell you about when using a tankless (At least
> my 10 year old model).
>
> It won't get as hot as a tank heater.  On ours, you set the output
> temperature, recommended is 120 degrees, it will adjust the flow to get you
> to that temp.  It can fill a tub, or the washing machine without a
> problem.  but you notice a flow decrease when you try to do both at once.
> If you want to sanitize with only water temperature, tankless is not the
> way to go.
>
> It really does not like On/Off operation.  If you are the kind of person
> who rinses their dishes with 1 or 2 second bursts from the faucet, it will
> never get hot.  Our dishwasher fills like that, so it always send the
> waterheater into a burner ignition failure (that it recovers from as soon
> as sustained water is drawn)  The dishwasher has it's own internal heater
> that raises the water temp, so that's not a problem.
>
> If your spouse turns off the shower, and you jump right in, You will have
> about 5 seconds of ice cold water at some point during your shower.  The
> water that didn't get heated yet as it went through the heater as it was
> firing up the burner.
>
> Someone running cold water in the house has no affect on temperature,
> someone running hotwater will dramatically change your temp, as suddenly
> the hot flow is decreased until the heater burner ramps up to increase the
> output again.  Same when the other hot flow is turned off, you will get
> really hot.
>
> I de-scale my heater every 6 months. They didn't tell me to do it when I
> got it, and it stopped working after a year.  I use 5 gallons of vinegar
> and a 1/6hp pump in a 5 gallon bucket.  The heater has built in bypass
> valves that make it super simple to hook up.  Just let the pump run the
> vinegar through for an hour (there are manufactures directions on how to do
> it)
>
>
>
> On 11/29/2020 10:47 AM, Colin Stanners wrote:
>
> FYI, quick pricing example for the above
> 2x Eccotemp 45HI-NG ( I can't find the -NG on Amazon easily but just for
> reference here's the very similar but not compatible -LP version
> https://www.amazon.com/Eccotemp-45HI-LP-Indoor-Propane-Tankless/dp/B00K2XLJIW/
> ) $530 USD each
> 2x Descaling/service valve kits (not the Eccotemp model but these seem to
> be compatible)
> https://www.amazon.com/Hydro-Master-Isolator-Tankless-Pressure/dp/B07KVCFT2K/
> $60 USD each
> 2x 4inch class III stainless steel vertical vent kits, with additional
> piping as needed - depends greatly on your house but I'm assuming $1000
> total
> 1x device interconnect cable - I thought that these models were able to be
> ganged, can't find the serial cable to do so but I assume it'd be <$50.
> 1x descaling kit
> https://www.amazon.com/Eccotemp-EZ-Flush-System-Descaler-Cleaning/dp/B01MY7AJ9D
> $150
>
> By far the biggest cost would be the labour to replace the old chimney /
> galvanized B vent with the new class III stainless steel piping x2.
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 29, 2020 at 10:10 AM Colin Stanners 
> wrote:
>
>> Steve, no feces involvement here but I've been looking into water heaters
>> quite a bit for a project.
>>
>> For the hard water, instead or in addition to the water softener you may
>> want to look into putting one of these into your hot water path.
>> https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B000NKETXQ/  I w

Re: [AFMUG] Water heaters

[Colin Stanners]

FYI, quick pricing example for the above
2x Eccotemp 45HI-NG ( I can't find the -NG on Amazon easily but just for
reference here's the very similar but not compatible -LP version
https://www.amazon.com/Eccotemp-45HI-LP-Indoor-Propane-Tankless/dp/B00K2XLJIW/
) $530 USD each
2x Descaling/service valve kits (not the Eccotemp model but these seem to
be compatible)
https://www.amazon.com/Hydro-Master-Isolator-Tankless-Pressure/dp/B07KVCFT2K/
$60 USD each
2x 4inch class III stainless steel vertical vent kits, with additional
piping as needed - depends greatly on your house but I'm assuming $1000
total
1x device interconnect cable - I thought that these models were able to be
ganged, can't find the serial cable to do so but I assume it'd be <$50.
1x descaling kit
https://www.amazon.com/Eccotemp-EZ-Flush-System-Descaler-Cleaning/dp/B01MY7AJ9D
$150

By far the biggest cost would be the labour to replace the old chimney /
galvanized B vent with the new class III stainless steel piping x2.


On Sun, Nov 29, 2020 at 10:10 AM Colin Stanners  wrote:

> Steve, no feces involvement here but I've been looking into water heaters
> quite a bit for a project.
>
> For the hard water, instead or in addition to the water softener you may
> want to look into putting one of these into your hot water path.
> https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B000NKETXQ/  I wouldn't put it in the general
> cold water path - while polyphosphates are safe for consumption from what I
> can see, and I'd trust 3M to vet them well, I try to not add much to
> drinking water, and cold water is usually mostly what is used for drinking.
> Maybe check your plumbing if it's possible to add that device to the cold
> water path for everywhere except the kitchen sink, where drinking water is
> usually taken. The $80 USD price is almost "too good to be true" compared
> to a water softener but the reviews suggest that it works well without
> downsides. The cartridges are $50 each and supposedly last 6 months.
>
> If the chimney leaks it could be a simple fix to the rain cap or flashing,
> did you inspect it? WISP experience is at least useful for judging if it's
> sealed well to the roof or if the structure of the rain cap is good in
> strong wind.
>
> I would recommend doing lots of math before assuming a solar system can
> run an electric water heater for a busy family - it takes a ton of
> electricity to create heat, which is why tank electric heaters take 2x-3x
> as much time to recover from a cold tank as gas heaters. I don't think
> you'd want family members to wait 1-2 hours for a hot shower after someone
> else used all the water. As a reference, the bigger tankless heaters use a
> reasonable amount of gas (~150-200K BTU) but they take an inordinate,
> almost frightening, amount of electricity, ~36kW.
>
> Tankless math starts with available GPM (from temperature rise chart).
> IIRC you're in Illinois, where groundwater temp averages 47 deg F (8 deg C
> in the developed countries). Assuming that you want 120 deg water output
> from the tankless heater, that's 73 deg F temp rise. That's on the higher
> end for a tankless heater. If we look at the Eccotemp 45HI-NG natural gas
> tankless water heater, their biggest model at ~140K BTU, the chart says
> that at that temp rise it can do 2GPM, so one low-flow shower. If you want
> to run a high-flow shower and a sink, or 2 showers at the same time, you'd
> need to buy 2 units and the serial cable between them that allows them to
> run intelligently in parallel (reducing the "not activating at low water
> flow" problem by having just one of them, not both, operate in low flow
> conditions).
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 29, 2020 at 12:35 AM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> You guys all do different weird shit. Went to drain my gas heater tonite
>> (may have put that maintenance off longer than intended)
>> We are quarry country so we have super hard water. Needless to say tanks
>> full of baked in sediment and when I cleared the valve I may have cracked
>> the liner, about every ten seconds I'm getting a drip on the burner, and my
>> pop off is dripping, probably some sediment.
>>
>> The water heater is the only thing I have that vents hot anymore and my
>> chimney leaks in driving rain. Is rather just bash it in and put a
>> dumbwaiter in the chase. I have the two fresh kids that I bet would have a
>> blast riding that.
>>
>> Power vent gas looks to almost double the cost.
>>
>> Tankless is looking almost comparable in price for gas, so I'm curious if
>> any of you guys run them without major water softener and filters.
>>
>> I'm planning on solar in the next 5 or 6 years when I redo my roof so
>> electric would be the thing I go with on the water heater a

Re: [AFMUG] Water heaters

[Colin Stanners]

Steve, no feces involvement here but I've been looking into water heaters
quite a bit for a project.

For the hard water, instead or in addition to the water softener you may
want to look into putting one of these into your hot water path.
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B000NKETXQ/  I wouldn't put it in the general cold
water path - while polyphosphates are safe for consumption from what I can
see, and I'd trust 3M to vet them well, I try to not add much to drinking
water, and cold water is usually mostly what is used for drinking. Maybe
check your plumbing if it's possible to add that device to the cold water
path for everywhere except the kitchen sink, where drinking water is
usually taken. The $80 USD price is almost "too good to be true" compared
to a water softener but the reviews suggest that it works well without
downsides. The cartridges are $50 each and supposedly last 6 months.

If the chimney leaks it could be a simple fix to the rain cap or flashing,
did you inspect it? WISP experience is at least useful for judging if it's
sealed well to the roof or if the structure of the rain cap is good in
strong wind.

I would recommend doing lots of math before assuming a solar system can run
an electric water heater for a busy family - it takes a ton of electricity
to create heat, which is why tank electric heaters take 2x-3x as much time
to recover from a cold tank as gas heaters. I don't think you'd want family
members to wait 1-2 hours for a hot shower after someone else used all the
water. As a reference, the bigger tankless heaters use a reasonable amount
of gas (~150-200K BTU) but they take an inordinate, almost frightening,
amount of electricity, ~36kW.

Tankless math starts with available GPM (from temperature rise chart). IIRC
you're in Illinois, where groundwater temp averages 47 deg F (8 deg C in
the developed countries). Assuming that you want 120 deg water output from
the tankless heater, that's 73 deg F temp rise. That's on the higher end
for a tankless heater. If we look at the Eccotemp 45HI-NG natural gas
tankless water heater, their biggest model at ~140K BTU, the chart says
that at that temp rise it can do 2GPM, so one low-flow shower. If you want
to run a high-flow shower and a sink, or 2 showers at the same time, you'd
need to buy 2 units and the serial cable between them that allows them to
run intelligently in parallel (reducing the "not activating at low water
flow" problem by having just one of them, not both, operate in low flow
conditions).





On Sun, Nov 29, 2020 at 12:35 AM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> You guys all do different weird shit. Went to drain my gas heater tonite
> (may have put that maintenance off longer than intended)
> We are quarry country so we have super hard water. Needless to say tanks
> full of baked in sediment and when I cleared the valve I may have cracked
> the liner, about every ten seconds I'm getting a drip on the burner, and my
> pop off is dripping, probably some sediment.
>
> The water heater is the only thing I have that vents hot anymore and my
> chimney leaks in driving rain. Is rather just bash it in and put a
> dumbwaiter in the chase. I have the two fresh kids that I bet would have a
> blast riding that.
>
> Power vent gas looks to almost double the cost.
>
> Tankless is looking almost comparable in price for gas, so I'm curious if
> any of you guys run them without major water softener and filters.
>
> I'm planning on solar in the next 5 or 6 years when I redo my roof so
> electric would be the thing I go with on the water heater after the one I'm
> gonna have to put in now.
>
> I like gas water heaters because I know how to fix them, parts are cheap,
> same with my clothes dryers. But theyve priced themselves into me looking
> at my options.
>
> Tankless I dont know how to calculate gpm needs. But what led to this was
> taking the flow reducer out of my low flow shower head and running out of
> hot water in 20 minutes. I start my day by scalding myself for about a half
> hour cause I'm a filthy bastard and need to be cleansed of my sins.
> We have 2 bathrooms and a girl hitting her teens, so I assume we may be
> getting into a shower and bath coming on at the same time and the wife
> knowing what's good for her and washing dishes.
> She wont let me put a wood stove and still in the bathroom, so wood fired
> shower options are out.
> Are residential boilers a thing? All my walls had pocket doors so I have
> plenty of room for radiant walls, I dont know if boiler heat it even
> efficient though.
>
>
>
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] HFT

[Colin Stanners]

I'm assuming that the Chicago Stock Exchange is quite fixed and immovable,
no?

On Sat, Nov 28, 2020 at 12:21 AM Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> I was talking with someone last week about all the High Frequency Trader
> microwave links going up in our area.
>
> Never thought twice about it until then.
>
> Why are they building these microwave and fiber networks to the NYSE
> rather than just moving their operations center closer to NY?
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Google News - El Paso lawyered up to try and collect $570, 000 owed to the city by the Trump campaign from a rally 2 years ago

[Colin Stanners]

Trump's been ripping large numbers of people off for 30+ years?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/09/donald-trump-unpaid-bills-republican-president-laswuits/85297274/

On Thu, Nov 26, 2020 at 3:32 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> I doubt we will get paid...
>
>
> https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEP0yvdIMyIW2laWYMAmmCdUqLQgEKiUIACIbd3d3LmJ1c2luZXNzaW5zaWRlci5jb20vc2FpKgQICjAMMJD-CQ?hl=en-US=US=US%3Aen
>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT windows update issues

[Colin Stanners]

I've worked in places that are dozens or hundreds of miles from the nearest
cell tower, and not worth installing sat internet for a few days. Without
internet, having access to all email for lookup on a PC is very useful.
Starlink may change that limitation.

If a Gmail account gets cracked, it's very possible for all mail to get
intentionally deleted or for the account to be locked. Since Gmail is a
free service, there is no guarantee of recovery from that, either of
messages or access - you may simply lose everything. I use Thunderbird to
do a full download of my gmail account every few months to reduce that risk.


On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 12:29 PM Darin Steffl 
wrote:

> Can I ask why anyone likes using desktop email programs? Ever since I was
> a kid, I've dreaded helping people with outlook, live mail, or thunderbird
> because of issues like you're describing.
>
> Also people who didn't set up IMAP so their emails disappeared off their
> email server and only existed on their computer. Then they didn't back
> things up so when their computer crashed, bye bye to all their emails. Or
> if they bought a new computer and need to migrate, it takes an hour or two
> to backup and move the outlook file.
>
> Holy crap I shiver when I think about desktop email.
>
> Gmail.com and then move on with life. Forget about database issues, new
> computers, spam filtering, multiple devices per account, backups, etc.
>
> You couldn't convince me to ever use desktop email. That's so 2001 haha
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2020, 12:05 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> EM Client can read the Outlook calendar invites.  It's free for 1
>> account.  Paid version if you need to check multiple accounts. Mainly it's
>> fast, even with a large Inbox.  Highly recommend.
>>
>> It also syncs with my GMail Calendar.
>>
>> Thunderbird performance seems inversely proportional to how much mail I
>> have.  Haven't used Outlook since the 2003 version.
>>
>>
>> On 11/17/2020 12:45 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>
>> So, today it appears that my Windows Live Mail database is corrupt.  Can
>> only see headers.  So switching to outlook but that is painful.
>>
>> I rolled back the windows update that happened last night but still dead
>> WLM… sob…
>>
>>
>>
>> Have resisted outlook for years.  Few times it would be nice.  When
>> someone sends a meeting or contact at least I can read it without having to
>> use a text editor and parsing through the complex crap…
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT windows update issues

[Colin Stanners]

Is there a reason that you don't wish to use Thunderbird with the Lightning
calendar add-on?

WLM had some limitations - IIRC it would just crash when exposed to a huge
number of messages.

On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 11:46 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

> So, today it appears that my Windows Live Mail database is corrupt.  Can
> only see headers.  So switching to outlook but that is painful.
>
> I rolled back the windows update that happened last night but still dead
> WLM… sob…
>
>
>
> Have resisted outlook for years.  Few times it would be nice.  When
> someone sends a meeting or contact at least I can read it without having to
> use a text editor and parsing through the complex crap…
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Moving heat without power.

[Colin Stanners]

If you're willing to do wiring, a solar panel, charge controller and
battery kit will give you reliable power (as long as specced out for the
load) and a 12/24V thermostat and fan will get that air moving.

On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 11:54 AM Robert Andrews 
wrote:

> Hi folks,
> I have a solarium attached to an unheated house and there is a
> bathroom
> window about 3x3' between them open.   Does anyone have any magic tricks
> up their sleeves to move the warm solarium heat into the house without
> using power?   The temp difference the other day was 106 in the solarium
> and 55 in the house.
>
> Best,
> Robert
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] "Long-haul" Fiber DWDM equipment needs

[Colin Stanners]

If this is a crucial path, or if you're new to such systems and will likely
need support, doing it "on a budget" is risky.

On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 7:10 PM Paul McCall  wrote:

> Yikes,  the extra 0 is not in the budget LOL
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Colin Stanners
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 25, 2020 8:01 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "Long-haul" Fiber DWDM equipment needs
>
>
>
> Hi Paul, I think that Ciena is one of the bigger and most respected names
> out there, but you may need to add another zero at the end of the price tag
> compared to the FS solution.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 25, 2020, 6:56 PM Paul McCall  wrote:
>
> Hey guys,
>
>
>
> We are lighting up right away with a DWDM solution, hopping 3 times about
> 130 miiles total (2 regen points in the middle)
>
>
>
> Have quotes from FS.COM with their equipment. I know they are general
> through of as “cost-effective”, but wondering if they are the “best” choice
>
>
>
> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> *Paul McCall, President *
>
> *Florida Broadband / PDMNet*
>
> *658 Old Dixie Highway*
>
> *Vero Beach, FL 32962*
>
> *772-564-6800*
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] "Long-haul" Fiber DWDM equipment needs

[Colin Stanners]

Hi Paul, I think that Ciena is one of the bigger and most respected names
out there, but you may need to add another zero at the end of the price tag
compared to the FS solution.


On Sun, Oct 25, 2020, 6:56 PM Paul McCall  wrote:

> Hey guys,
>
>
>
> We are lighting up right away with a DWDM solution, hopping 3 times about
> 130 miiles total (2 regen points in the middle)
>
>
>
> Have quotes from FS.COM with their equipment. I know they are general
> through of as “cost-effective”, but wondering if they are the “best” choice
>
>
>
> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> *Paul McCall, President *
>
> *Florida Broadband / PDMNet*
>
> *658 Old Dixie Highway*
>
> *Vero Beach, FL 32962*
>
> *772-564-6800*
>
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Cold-weather Ethernet isolation (electrical / ground)

[Colin Stanners]

And an official Cisco SFP-10G-LR  10Gbit SFP+ 1310nm 10km  is $3000 while
the FS equivalent is $30 CDN. Fun market.


On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 2:13 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Interesting.  The JDSU industrial temp SFP's are like $200+
>
> Makes me wonder if one of them is robbing me or is the other one
> bullshitting me.
>
>
> On 10/15/2020 3:07 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> FS sells a bazillion different SFPs.  What is the spec temp range on the
> ones you got?
>
>
>
> Someone else pointed me to these:
>
> https://www.fs.com/products/12622.html
>
>
>
> -30 is pretty cold, not sure if that’s F or C.  Of course at -40 they’re
> the same.  You’d expect if you have them plugged into a switch there would
> be some heating and the SFP wouldn’t be as cold as the outdoor temp.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 15, 2020 12:49 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cold-weather Ethernet isolation (electrical /
> ground)
>
>
>
> When I was designing for Carlson, we discovered cold is always the enemy,
> not heat.
>
>
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 15, 2020 11:45 AM
>
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cold-weather Ethernet isolation (electrical /
> ground)
>
>
>
> Run fiber. Goes farther, does not conduct.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
> On 10/15/2020 10:12 AM, Colin Stanners wrote:
>
> We have a rural tower site where the owner has a few houses on the
> property, they ran conduit and cat5e between the houses and the tower so
> the houses could get Internet access.
>
>
>
> But with the size of the property and the tower being a big metal
> structure, that caused some voltage / ground imbalances that fried gear at
> the houses after storms, I believe even through surge supressors (hich are
> made to protect against single high-voltage direct strikes).
>
>
>
> We put in some electrical isolation using copper-fiber-copper converters /
> switches at the tower, those worked until the winter: when it got to -30
> outside the FiberStore SFPs were unhappy.
>
>
>
> Does anyone have good cold-weather solutions? Or were we just unlucky with
> those SFPs and should try something else in the cold?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Cold-weather Ethernet isolation (electrical / ground)

[Colin Stanners]

I believe that those SFPs were specced to -40 (C) , but didn't directly
confirm as IIRC that detail is not indicated on/by the unit's model number.
These were small switches/converters of only a few watts, wouldn't heat
much.

On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 2:08 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> FS sells a bazillion different SFPs.  What is the spec temp range on the
> ones you got?
>
>
>
> Someone else pointed me to these:
>
> https://www.fs.com/products/12622.html
>
>
>
> -30 is pretty cold, not sure if that’s F or C.  Of course at -40 they’re
> the same.  You’d expect if you have them plugged into a switch there would
> be some heating and the SFP wouldn’t be as cold as the outdoor temp.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 15, 2020 12:49 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cold-weather Ethernet isolation (electrical /
> ground)
>
>
>
> When I was designing for Carlson, we discovered cold is always the enemy,
> not heat.
>
>
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 15, 2020 11:45 AM
>
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cold-weather Ethernet isolation (electrical /
> ground)
>
>
>
> Run fiber. Goes farther, does not conduct.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
> On 10/15/2020 10:12 AM, Colin Stanners wrote:
>
> We have a rural tower site where the owner has a few houses on the
> property, they ran conduit and cat5e between the houses and the tower so
> the houses could get Internet access.
>
>
>
> But with the size of the property and the tower being a big metal
> structure, that caused some voltage / ground imbalances that fried gear at
> the houses after storms, I believe even through surge supressors (hich are
> made to protect against single high-voltage direct strikes).
>
>
>
> We put in some electrical isolation using copper-fiber-copper converters /
> switches at the tower, those worked until the winter: when it got to -30
> outside the FiberStore SFPs were unhappy.
>
>
>
> Does anyone have good cold-weather solutions? Or were we just unlucky with
> those SFPs and should try something else in the cold?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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[AFMUG] Cold-weather Ethernet isolation (electrical / ground)

[Colin Stanners]

We have a rural tower site where the owner has a few houses on the
property, they ran conduit and cat5e between the houses and the tower so
the houses could get Internet access.

But with the size of the property and the tower being a big metal
structure, that caused some voltage / ground imbalances that fried gear at
the houses after storms, I believe even through surge supressors (hich are
made to protect against single high-voltage direct strikes).

We put in some electrical isolation using copper-fiber-copper converters /
switches at the tower, those worked until the winter: when it got to -30
outside the FiberStore SFPs were unhappy.

Does anyone have good cold-weather solutions? Or were we just unlucky with
those SFPs and should try something else in the cold?
-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT hiring

[Colin Stanners]

For us in Canada, people could easily sit on their couches at home
collecting CERB, making over minimum wage. As such our hiring for junior
fiber crew - paying quite a bit more than minimum wage, but involving
digging holes etc - was not going well over the last few months.

On Fri, Oct 9, 2020, 3:01 PM  wrote:

> Hiring sucks these days.  Was OK a few months ago.  Now we are back to
> no-shows for interviews.  No show to the first day of work for new hires.
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Mounting to Cement Stave Silos

[Colin Stanners]

Oh, here there are some. Banding and tension tool:
https://www.sitepro1.com/store/cart.php?m=product_list=29

Clamps that work with the banding, although these are a smaller model that
may be more for cable than pipes:
https://www.sitepro1.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail=75

On Tue, Oct 6, 2020, 10:05 PM Colin Stanners  wrote:

> What is the diameter? If not too big, you may find some of the chimney
> mounts here useful:
> https://www.sitepro1.com/store/cart.php?m=product_list=776
>
> It may be easier to put your own metal band setup, there must be some
> specific blocks that you can use to both tension them and create a solid
> mounting point.
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 6, 2020, 9:59 PM David Coudron 
> wrote:
>
>> We have a new project in which we will be using cement stave solid for a
>> couple of tower locations.They aren’t ideal for our application, but
>> they are the only tall structures in the area we need two towers and the
>> project has to be complete by the end of the year, so we are not going to
>> have time to build any kind of alternate structure.   The silos have a
>> round metal band that runs horizontally around each level of the cement
>> staves.   We plan to attached a pole vertically to several of those bands
>> so that we can mount our equipment on.   Each pole will be attached to 3-4
>> of the bands.  We are wondering if anyone has done that in the past and
>> what they have used.   Our go to bracket for towers is the M-TOW-A from
>> Chuck, but they aren’t the right application for this.   Chuck, I don’t
>> know if you have something else that would work better, or has anyone seem
>> a bracket/clamp that works well for this application?   We are thinking a
>> clam type clamp that clamps to the horizontal metal band (it is tough to
>> get a bracket between the metal band and the cement stave) and will clamp
>> to a vertical pole would be a winner, but haven’t seen anything like
>> this.   Anyone done this in the past?
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> David Coudron
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Mounting to Cement Stave Silos

[Colin Stanners]

What is the diameter? If not too big, you may find some of the chimney
mounts here useful:
https://www.sitepro1.com/store/cart.php?m=product_list=776

It may be easier to put your own metal band setup, there must be some
specific blocks that you can use to both tension them and create a solid
mounting point.


On Tue, Oct 6, 2020, 9:59 PM David Coudron 
wrote:

> We have a new project in which we will be using cement stave solid for a
> couple of tower locations.They aren’t ideal for our application, but
> they are the only tall structures in the area we need two towers and the
> project has to be complete by the end of the year, so we are not going to
> have time to build any kind of alternate structure.   The silos have a
> round metal band that runs horizontally around each level of the cement
> staves.   We plan to attached a pole vertically to several of those bands
> so that we can mount our equipment on.   Each pole will be attached to 3-4
> of the bands.  We are wondering if anyone has done that in the past and
> what they have used.   Our go to bracket for towers is the M-TOW-A from
> Chuck, but they aren’t the right application for this.   Chuck, I don’t
> know if you have something else that would work better, or has anyone seem
> a bracket/clamp that works well for this application?   We are thinking a
> clam type clamp that clamps to the horizontal metal band (it is tough to
> get a bracket between the metal band and the cement stave) and will clamp
> to a vertical pole would be a winner, but haven’t seen anything like
> this.   Anyone done this in the past?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT video editing

[Colin Stanners]

I think that Ken meant "like Audacity, except for video instead of audio".

You can try OpenShot video editor, but if you want to release this to the
public and influence opinion, it may be easier to pay a local media student
some cash to do a snazzy job instead of spending your efforts to do a very
basic video that may obscure the message.


On Sat, Sep 26, 2020, 10:37 AM  wrote:

> It is a local incorporation effort.  I want to try to block it.  Nothing
> says country living like being forced to be in an HOA from hell, aka small
> town “City”.
>
> I did not know Audacity did video.
>
> Sadly, I have too much testosterone to use a Mac.
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Saturday, September 26, 2020 9:29 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT video editing
>
>
> You’re sure you want to do that?  I mean the political youtube video, not
> the video editing software.  Unless you’re running for road commissioner or
> town council or something, then go for it.
>
>
>
> Regarding software, I tried Cyberlink PowerDirector to edit my dad’s 16mm
> home movies that I had transferred to digital.  Kind of like Audacity for
> video.  I didn’t find it very intuitive and I kind of stumbled around, but
> of course I didn’t read the manual or watch any tutorials.  I also have no
> experience with video editing.  So you might fare better.
>
>
>
> Looks like I paid $80 for the Ultra version lifetime license, they also
> have subscriptions.  Also the website says something about a 25% promo
> discount on the latest version 19 ending tomorrow.
>
>
>
> I know there’s a whole religious argument out there about how dare you do
> video editing on any platform other than a Mac.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Saturday, September 26, 2020 10:11 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT video editing
>
>
>
> I need to make a short political youtube video.  I really like windows
> movie maker but it is increasingly hard to find and load on a new machine.
> Any other free or low cost platforms out there that are easy to use etc
> etc.
>
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>
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> AF mailing list
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