date:20160314

Deny deny deny
On Mar 14, 2016 6:37 PM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:

> Mea culpa
> On Mar 14, 2016 6:34 PM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:
>
>> I don't believe anything any of them say. The only time they tell the
>> truth is when it benefits them. Like when someone else does something bad,
>> even if they themselves have done it before.
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016, 10:52 AM Jaime Solorza 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> not so, I don't like his ties or his hair..
>>>
>>> Jaime Solorza
>>> Wireless Systems Architect
>>> 915-861-1390
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 9:44 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
>>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 i think jaime has a mancrush on the donald

 On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 10:42 AM, Jaime Solorza <
 losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:

> He should stick to TV ...he is good at it
>
> Jaime Solorza
> Wireless Systems Architect
> 915-861-1390
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 9:29 AM, Bill Prince 
> wrote:
>
>> You can't trust 95% of what comes out of Trump's mouth. As of March
>> 3, 2016, he had almost the lowest "truthiness" of any Republican 
>> candidate
>> (only Carson ranked lower).
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 3/13/2016 5:54 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>>
>> I agree with this statement 100%. I have said this about Trump for
>> almost six months now, and everyone laughed. I'm tired of the same ol' 
>> same
>> ol' lifetime politicians that take money from special interest groups
>> to keep everything running.
>>
>> It's time for a change. Say what you want about Trump, but even
>> Fortune magazine has him at a $5 Billion Net Worth. Even if he did start
>> with $1 million from his dad 40 years ago, turning that into $5,000 
>> million
>> is pretty damn impressive.
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>> On 3/13/2016 11:12 AM, Rory Conaway wrote:
>>
>> Seriously Jaime, craven lackeys?  I guess I’ve been called worse.
>> Are you even curious why both the Republican establishment and George 
>> Soros
>> are both out to get him?  And don’t you want to find out what would 
>> happen
>> if we put a real businessman in the White House instead of some stooge? 
>> As
>> businessmen yourselves, I thought you would respect that.  Instead, you 
>> are
>> more interested in your ideology than your economic welfare.
>>
>>
>>
>> There are those of us who simply want someone in power for once who
>> isn’t owned by the establishment.  If that’s Trump, so be it.  I’d take
>> Triumph, the Insult Comic dog over anything the Democrats have and 
>> clearly
>> over Cruz or Rubio who have both tried to sell us out.  We are $19T in 
>> debt
>> and it’s getting worse.  Other countries are bleeding us dry.   Hope and
>> Change was a disaster and the corruption and immigration is worse, not
>> better.  We are on the cusp of possibly electing the most evil liar ever,
>> Hillary Clinton, and you think Trump would be worse without having any 
>> idea
>> how he would govern.
>>
>>
>>
>> Wow.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
>> Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 9:36 AM
>> *To:* Animal Farm
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "Attack on trump" video
>>
>>
>>
>> If someone really wants to get him no secret service is going to
>> prevent it...and it doesn't have to a gun.   I don't want someone to kill
>> him.  Thats not what are about..  how ugly that someone in crowd yells 
>> kill
>> him about protester.Trumps followers are craven lackeys (old cold war
>> term- blind followers in simple language ).   Sounded like a gladiator
>> event.   Sad
>>
>> On Mar 13, 2016 10:13 AM, "Josh Reynolds" 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I had never watched this before, but I came across it today.
>>
>>
>> https://video.twimg.com//ext_tw_video//708728294708015104//pu//vid//640x360//yHRkyZIQTjmheSW4.mp4
>> 
>>
>> "Kill him!"
>>
>> "Kick his ass Donald!"... hah, I did laugh at the yelling
>>
>> The very first thing I noticed was the super weird reactions by the
>> Secret Service. Pay attention to how long it takes for somebody to
>> actually stand in *front* of him, and then *behind* him. I know a bit
>> about VIP protection. Not a lot mind you, but a bit. They don't seem
>> the least bit worried that this was a simple misdirection to pull the
>> Secret Service's attention away from the real plan. Then they open his
>>

Re: [AFMUG] "Attack on trump" video

According to Politico  Trump lies every five minutes in his speeches.
Funny but not Ha Ha
On Mar 14, 2016 6:37 PM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:

> Mea culpa
> On Mar 14, 2016 6:34 PM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:
>
>> I don't believe anything any of them say. The only time they tell the
>> truth is when it benefits them. Like when someone else does something bad,
>> even if they themselves have done it before.
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016, 10:52 AM Jaime Solorza 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> not so, I don't like his ties or his hair..
>>>
>>> Jaime Solorza
>>> Wireless Systems Architect
>>> 915-861-1390
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 9:44 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
>>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 i think jaime has a mancrush on the donald

 On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 10:42 AM, Jaime Solorza <
 losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:

> He should stick to TV ...he is good at it
>
> Jaime Solorza
> Wireless Systems Architect
> 915-861-1390
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 9:29 AM, Bill Prince 
> wrote:
>
>> You can't trust 95% of what comes out of Trump's mouth. As of March
>> 3, 2016, he had almost the lowest "truthiness" of any Republican 
>> candidate
>> (only Carson ranked lower).
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 3/13/2016 5:54 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>>
>> I agree with this statement 100%. I have said this about Trump for
>> almost six months now, and everyone laughed. I'm tired of the same ol' 
>> same
>> ol' lifetime politicians that take money from special interest groups
>> to keep everything running.
>>
>> It's time for a change. Say what you want about Trump, but even
>> Fortune magazine has him at a $5 Billion Net Worth. Even if he did start
>> with $1 million from his dad 40 years ago, turning that into $5,000 
>> million
>> is pretty damn impressive.
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>> On 3/13/2016 11:12 AM, Rory Conaway wrote:
>>
>> Seriously Jaime, craven lackeys?  I guess I’ve been called worse.
>> Are you even curious why both the Republican establishment and George 
>> Soros
>> are both out to get him?  And don’t you want to find out what would 
>> happen
>> if we put a real businessman in the White House instead of some stooge? 
>> As
>> businessmen yourselves, I thought you would respect that.  Instead, you 
>> are
>> more interested in your ideology than your economic welfare.
>>
>>
>>
>> There are those of us who simply want someone in power for once who
>> isn’t owned by the establishment.  If that’s Trump, so be it.  I’d take
>> Triumph, the Insult Comic dog over anything the Democrats have and 
>> clearly
>> over Cruz or Rubio who have both tried to sell us out.  We are $19T in 
>> debt
>> and it’s getting worse.  Other countries are bleeding us dry.   Hope and
>> Change was a disaster and the corruption and immigration is worse, not
>> better.  We are on the cusp of possibly electing the most evil liar ever,
>> Hillary Clinton, and you think Trump would be worse without having any 
>> idea
>> how he would govern.
>>
>>
>>
>> Wow.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
>> Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 9:36 AM
>> *To:* Animal Farm
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "Attack on trump" video
>>
>>
>>
>> If someone really wants to get him no secret service is going to
>> prevent it...and it doesn't have to a gun.   I don't want someone to kill
>> him.  Thats not what are about..  how ugly that someone in crowd yells 
>> kill
>> him about protester.Trumps followers are craven lackeys (old cold war
>> term- blind followers in simple language ).   Sounded like a gladiator
>> event.   Sad
>>
>> On Mar 13, 2016 10:13 AM, "Josh Reynolds" 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I had never watched this before, but I came across it today.
>>
>>
>> https://video.twimg.com//ext_tw_video//708728294708015104//pu//vid//640x360//yHRkyZIQTjmheSW4.mp4
>> 
>>
>> "Kill him!"
>>
>> "Kick his ass Donald!"... hah, I did laugh at the yelling
>>
>> The very first thing I noticed was the super weird reactions by the
>> Secret Service. Pay attention to how long it takes for somebody to
>> actually stand in *front* of him, and then *behind* him. I know a bit
>> about VIP protection. Not a lot mind you, but a bit. They don't seem
>> the least bit worried that this was a simple misdirection to pull the
>>

Re: [AFMUG] KP 3.65/5 Ghz Sectors

2016-03-14 Thread Brandon Yuchasz

 

That’s a good point. I am actually waiting for some feedback from Cambium on 
their 90 / 120 degree. I am assuming its 3 dBi rolloff at 90 and dBi at 120 and 
not anything mechanical or two different models. If it is infact 6 at 120 then 
I am planning to talk to KP. 

 

Best regards,

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

www.gogebicrange.net  

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ty Featherling
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 8:44 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] KP 3.65/5 Ghz Sectors

 

You can ask Shane - sh...@kpperformance.ca . He should be able to tell you 
which brackets are shipping on something. 

-Ty 

On Mar 14, 2016 7:59 PM, "Brandon Yuchasz"  wrote:

That’s what I have done as well in the past. I have been avoiding buying any 
more of them because they are such a pain to get into after they are mounted. 
The cambium one is actually quite nice an allen wrench and that’s all it takes 
to swap but they are not available in as many different coverages. 

 

Best regards,

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

www.gogebicrange.net  

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 6:26 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] KP 3.65/5 Ghz Sectors

 

Someone else will have to comment on that.  I found the best solution was to 
remove the two side bolts and leave the bracket mounted to the pole.  Then 
loosen the two on top and swivel the sector up to remove the cover.

 

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:57 PM, Brandon Yuchasz  wrote:

Without taking this one to far off track. Did they upgrade all the antennas 
brackets or if we buy one of the epmp5hz are we going to still not be able to 
open the cases when mounted on a tower?

 

Best regards,

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

www.gogebicrange.net  

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 5:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] KP 3.65/5 Ghz Sectors

 

Glad to hear they scrapped that.  I wanted some sort of a seal, but one that 
would slide in and out would be preferable.  Nobody wants to encounter a nest 
the size of one of those boxes at the top of a tower.

 

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 2:13 PM, Ty Featherling  wrote:

I complained about the addition of the cable glands because of the way it was 
implemented. The glands are part of the removable part of the box, not the 
stationary part. As a result to remove that cover on the box you had to loosen 
the cable glands, push enough slack through to allot you to swivel out the 
cover, and then let the cover hang with the cables going through it. Hated it. 
I talked to Shane about it and he said an engineer threw that feature in at the 
last minute and they have since removed them from the design. I said just 
redesign so that the cable glands are stationary at the bottom of the box and 
let the lid close around them. We'll see.

 

I am using the dual-5Ghzsectors and have had great results with them. I am 
swapping out 120 that are full with these dual 60s using the same mounts and 
getting more capacity.

 

-Ty




 

 

-Ty

 

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 2:14 PM, Jeremy  wrote:

If you have used KP antennas before they have made some marked improvements 
over their old hardware designs.  The bracket is stronger, but also sticks out 
much further, removing the need to disconnect the sector to get the rear cover 
off.  If you are not using UBNT or EPMP, then the cover never needs to come off 
(except to connect the Type-N jumpers initially), and the 450 sectors can be 
mounted to the cover.  Having not done that, I am guessing it will be a fairly 
tight fit.  The grooves are the correct size this time, and Rockets fit without 
modifications (after a slip up in manufacturing and testing that we received on 
our last order).  The EPMP adapter also appears to work, although I haven't 
tried it personally.

 

Also, the shielded boxes used to fill up with Wasps, but now they have cable 
glands leading into the AP case.  My only complaint with this new improvement 
was that the shielded connectors do not fit through the gland.  It's a lesson 
that I should have learned long ago, but I didn'tso I had to cut the ends 
off, push them through, and then re-terminate them. 

 

We are only using the 2.4GHz/5GHz combos, and have been happy with their 
performance.  They are a huge antenna, but not as big as two antennas.

 

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications Inc 
 wrote:

Good afternoon,

 

If you have deployed the KP Performance 3.65/5Ghz Dual Sectors, I am curious 
how they are working for you.

Also, if you are, did you have to modify any part of the equipment for proper 
mounting/installations?  

 

To save tower space, I am considering

Re: [AFMUG] KP 3.65/5 Ghz Sectors

2016-03-14 Thread Ty Featherling

You can ask Shane - sh...@kpperformance.ca . He should be able to tell you
which brackets are shipping on something.

-Ty
On Mar 14, 2016 7:59 PM, "Brandon Yuchasz"  wrote:

> That’s what I have done as well in the past. I have been avoiding buying
> any more of them because they are such a pain to get into after they are
> mounted. The cambium one is actually quite nice an allen wrench and that’s
> all it takes to swap but they are not available in as many different
> coverages.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Brandon Yuchasz
>
> GogebicRange.net
>
> www.gogebicrange.net
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jeremy
> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 6:26 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] KP 3.65/5 Ghz Sectors
>
>
>
> Someone else will have to comment on that.  I found the best solution was
> to remove the two side bolts and leave the bracket mounted to the pole.
> Then loosen the two on top and swivel the sector up to remove the cover.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:57 PM, Brandon Yuchasz 
> wrote:
>
> Without taking this one to far off track. Did they upgrade all the
> antennas brackets or if we buy one of the epmp5hz are we going to still not
> be able to open the cases when mounted on a tower?
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Brandon Yuchasz
>
> GogebicRange.net
>
> www.gogebicrange.net
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jeremy
> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 5:24 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] KP 3.65/5 Ghz Sectors
>
>
>
> Glad to hear they scrapped that.  I wanted some sort of a seal, but one
> that would slide in and out would be preferable.  Nobody wants to encounter
> a nest the size of one of those boxes at the top of a tower.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 2:13 PM, Ty Featherling 
> wrote:
>
> I complained about the addition of the cable glands because of the way it
> was implemented. The glands are part of the removable part of the box, not
> the stationary part. As a result to remove that cover on the box you had to
> loosen the cable glands, push enough slack through to allot you to swivel
> out the cover, and then let the cover hang with the cables going through
> it. Hated it. I talked to Shane about it and he said an engineer threw that
> feature in at the last minute and they have since removed them from the
> design. I said just redesign so that the cable glands are stationary at the
> bottom of the box and let the lid close around them. We'll see.
>
>
>
> I am using the dual-5Ghzsectors and have had great results with them. I am
> swapping out 120 that are full with these dual 60s using the same mounts
> and getting more capacity.
>
>
>
> -Ty
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Ty
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 2:14 PM, Jeremy  wrote:
>
> If you have used KP antennas before they have made some marked
> improvements over their old hardware designs.  The bracket is stronger, but
> also sticks out much further, removing the need to disconnect the sector to
> get the rear cover off.  If you are not using UBNT or EPMP, then the cover
> never needs to come off (except to connect the Type-N jumpers initially),
> and the 450 sectors can be mounted to the cover.  Having not done that, I
> am guessing it will be a fairly tight fit.  The grooves are the correct
> size this time, and Rockets fit without modifications (after a slip up in
> manufacturing and testing that we received on our last order).  The EPMP
> adapter also appears to work, although I haven't tried it personally.
>
>
>
> Also, the shielded boxes used to fill up with Wasps, but now they have
> cable glands leading into the AP case.  My only complaint with this new
> improvement was that the shielded connectors do not fit through the gland.
> It's a lesson that I should have learned long ago, but I didn'tso I had
> to cut the ends off, push them through, and then re-terminate them.
>
>
>
> We are only using the 2.4GHz/5GHz combos, and have been happy with their
> performance.  They are a huge antenna, but not as big as two antennas.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications
> Inc  wrote:
>
> Good afternoon,
>
>
>
> If you have deployed the KP Performance 3.65/5Ghz Dual Sectors, I am
> curious how they are working for you.
>
> Also, if you are, did you have to modify any part of the equipment for
> proper mounting/installations?
>
>
>
> To save tower space, I am considering deploying several but don’t won’t to
> have performance problems.
>
>
>
> *Tyson Burris, President*
> *Internet Communications Inc.*
> *739 Commerce Dr.*
> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>
> *317-738-0320 <317-738-0320> Daytime #*
> *317-412-1540 <317-412-1540> Cell/Direct #*
> *Online: **www.surfici.net* 
>
>
>
> [image: ICI]
>
> *What can ICI do for you?*
>
>
> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones -

Re: [AFMUG] KP 3.65/5 Ghz Sectors

2016-03-14 Thread Brandon Yuchasz

That’s what I have done as well in the past. I have been avoiding buying any 
more of them because they are such a pain to get into after they are mounted. 
The cambium one is actually quite nice an allen wrench and that’s all it takes 
to swap but they are not available in as many different coverages. 

 

Best regards,

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

www.gogebicrange.net  

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 6:26 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] KP 3.65/5 Ghz Sectors

 

Someone else will have to comment on that.  I found the best solution was to 
remove the two side bolts and leave the bracket mounted to the pole.  Then 
loosen the two on top and swivel the sector up to remove the cover.

 

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:57 PM, Brandon Yuchasz  wrote:

Without taking this one to far off track. Did they upgrade all the antennas 
brackets or if we buy one of the epmp5hz are we going to still not be able to 
open the cases when mounted on a tower?

 

Best regards,

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

www.gogebicrange.net  

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 5:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] KP 3.65/5 Ghz Sectors

 

Glad to hear they scrapped that.  I wanted some sort of a seal, but one that 
would slide in and out would be preferable.  Nobody wants to encounter a nest 
the size of one of those boxes at the top of a tower.

 

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 2:13 PM, Ty Featherling  wrote:

I complained about the addition of the cable glands because of the way it was 
implemented. The glands are part of the removable part of the box, not the 
stationary part. As a result to remove that cover on the box you had to loosen 
the cable glands, push enough slack through to allot you to swivel out the 
cover, and then let the cover hang with the cables going through it. Hated it. 
I talked to Shane about it and he said an engineer threw that feature in at the 
last minute and they have since removed them from the design. I said just 
redesign so that the cable glands are stationary at the bottom of the box and 
let the lid close around them. We'll see.

 

I am using the dual-5Ghzsectors and have had great results with them. I am 
swapping out 120 that are full with these dual 60s using the same mounts and 
getting more capacity.

 

-Ty




 

 

-Ty

 

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 2:14 PM, Jeremy  wrote:

If you have used KP antennas before they have made some marked improvements 
over their old hardware designs.  The bracket is stronger, but also sticks out 
much further, removing the need to disconnect the sector to get the rear cover 
off.  If you are not using UBNT or EPMP, then the cover never needs to come off 
(except to connect the Type-N jumpers initially), and the 450 sectors can be 
mounted to the cover.  Having not done that, I am guessing it will be a fairly 
tight fit.  The grooves are the correct size this time, and Rockets fit without 
modifications (after a slip up in manufacturing and testing that we received on 
our last order).  The EPMP adapter also appears to work, although I haven't 
tried it personally.

 

Also, the shielded boxes used to fill up with Wasps, but now they have cable 
glands leading into the AP case.  My only complaint with this new improvement 
was that the shielded connectors do not fit through the gland.  It's a lesson 
that I should have learned long ago, but I didn'tso I had to cut the ends 
off, push them through, and then re-terminate them. 

 

We are only using the 2.4GHz/5GHz combos, and have been happy with their 
performance.  They are a huge antenna, but not as big as two antennas.

 

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications Inc 
 wrote:

Good afternoon,

 

If you have deployed the KP Performance 3.65/5Ghz Dual Sectors, I am curious 
how they are working for you.

Also, if you are, did you have to modify any part of the equipment for proper 
mounting/installations?  

 

To save tower space, I am considering deploying several but don’t won’t to have 
performance problems.

 

Tyson Burris, President 
Internet Communications Inc. 
739 Commerce Dr. 
Franklin, IN 46131 
  
317-738-0320 Daytime # 
317-412-1540 Cell/Direct # 
Online:   www.surfici.net 

 

ICI

What can ICI do for you? 


Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure. 
  
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the 
addressee shown. It contains information that is 
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review, 
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by 
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly 
prohibited.

Re: [AFMUG] Telephone pole mount.. Dish / Sector..

FYI, UBNT dishes will not fit on a 3.5" pipe.  They will fit on a 3" pipe
(except the new 620 fine adjustment kit...it will fit by changing out the
carriage bolts).

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 6:49 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> I have not checked out the commscope unit.
>
> This has a large pipe 3.5” I think 24” long, will fit any pole over 10”
> dia.
> Very heavy duty.  We could do you a one off in about 30 days.  Not fully
> into production yet.
> MSRP is roughly $200 with you supplying the chain.
>
> *From:* Peter Kranz 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 6:47 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Telephone pole mount.. Dish / Sector..
>
>
> Hi Chuck, How long until this is in distribution? If it’s not available
> for 30 days, have you checked out that CommScope unit?
>
>
>
>
> *Peter Kranz*www.UnwiredLtd.com 
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 5:44 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Telephone pole mount.. Dish / Sector..
>
>
>
> Actually my new one is much better.
>
> Not on the web site yet or in the dealer price lists.
>
>
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
>
> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 5:27 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Telephone pole mount.. Dish / Sector..
>
>
>
> http://www.mccowntech.com/chain-mount/
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 6:26 PM, Peter Kranz 
> wrote:
>
> Need to mount a 24” dish and a sector antenna to a telephone pole.. Anyone
> used these things? The right way to go? It’s a heavy wind area.. Kinda
> looks like you just throw some lag bolts in and you are good to go.
>
>
>
> https://www.tessco.com/products/displayProductInfo.do?sku=367000
>
>
>
>
> *Peter Kranz*www.UnwiredLtd.com 
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Telephone pole mount.. Dish / Sector..

2016-03-14 Thread Chuck McCown

I have not checked out the commscope unit.

This has a large pipe 3.5” I think 24” long, will fit any pole over 10” dia.
Very heavy duty.  We could do you a one off in about 30 days.  Not fully into 
production yet.  
MSRP is roughly $200 with you supplying the chain.  

From: Peter Kranz 
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 6:47 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Telephone pole mount.. Dish / Sector..

Hi Chuck, How long until this is in distribution? If it’s not available for 30 
days, have you checked out that CommScope unit?

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 5:44 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Telephone pole mount.. Dish / Sector..

Actually my new one is much better.  

Not on the web site yet or in the dealer price lists.  

From: Josh Reynolds 

Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 5:27 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Telephone pole mount.. Dish / Sector..

http://www.mccowntech.com/chain-mount/

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 6:26 PM, Peter Kranz  wrote:

  Need to mount a 24” dish and a sector antenna to a telephone pole.. Anyone 
used these things? The right way to go? It’s a heavy wind area.. Kinda looks 
like you just throw some lag bolts in and you are good to go.

  https://www.tessco.com/products/displayProductInfo.do?sku=367000

  Peter Kranz
  www.UnwiredLtd.com
  Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
  Mobile: 510-207-
  pkr...@unwiredltd.com

Re: [AFMUG] Telephone pole mount.. Dish / Sector..

Hi Chuck, How long until this is in distribution? If it’s not available for 30 
days, have you checked out that CommScope unit?

 

Peter Kranz
  www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
  pkr...@unwiredltd.com

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 5:44 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Telephone pole mount.. Dish / Sector..

 

Actually my new one is much better.  

Not on the web site yet or in the dealer price lists.  

 

From: Josh Reynolds   

Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 5:27 PM

To: af@afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Telephone pole mount.. Dish / Sector..

 

http://www.mccowntech.com/chain-mount/

 

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 6:26 PM, Peter Kranz  > wrote:

Need to mount a 24” dish and a sector antenna to a telephone pole.. Anyone used 
these things? The right way to go? It’s a heavy wind area.. Kinda looks like 
you just throw some lag bolts in and you are good to go.

 

https://www.tessco.com/products/displayProductInfo.do?sku=367000

 



Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com  
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100  
Mobile: 510-207-  
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

[AFMUG] ExoMars Phones Home En Route to Red Planet: 'We Have a Mission'

http://www.space.com/32268-exomars-2016-mission-headed-to-mars.html

Re: [AFMUG] "Attack on trump" video

Mea culpa
On Mar 14, 2016 6:34 PM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:

> I don't believe anything any of them say. The only time they tell the
> truth is when it benefits them. Like when someone else does something bad,
> even if they themselves have done it before.
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016, 10:52 AM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> not so, I don't like his ties or his hair..
>>
>> Jaime Solorza
>> Wireless Systems Architect
>> 915-861-1390
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 9:44 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> i think jaime has a mancrush on the donald
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 10:42 AM, Jaime Solorza <
>>> losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 He should stick to TV ...he is good at it

 Jaime Solorza
 Wireless Systems Architect
 915-861-1390

 On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 9:29 AM, Bill Prince 
 wrote:

> You can't trust 95% of what comes out of Trump's mouth. As of March 3,
> 2016, he had almost the lowest "truthiness" of any Republican candidate
> (only Carson ranked lower).
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 3/13/2016 5:54 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>
> I agree with this statement 100%. I have said this about Trump for
> almost six months now, and everyone laughed. I'm tired of the same ol' 
> same
> ol' lifetime politicians that take money from special interest groups
> to keep everything running.
>
> It's time for a change. Say what you want about Trump, but even
> Fortune magazine has him at a $5 Billion Net Worth. Even if he did start
> with $1 million from his dad 40 years ago, turning that into $5,000 
> million
> is pretty damn impressive.
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 3/13/2016 11:12 AM, Rory Conaway wrote:
>
> Seriously Jaime, craven lackeys?  I guess I’ve been called worse.  Are
> you even curious why both the Republican establishment and George Soros 
> are
> both out to get him?  And don’t you want to find out what would happen if
> we put a real businessman in the White House instead of some stooge? As
> businessmen yourselves, I thought you would respect that.  Instead, you 
> are
> more interested in your ideology than your economic welfare.
>
>
>
> There are those of us who simply want someone in power for once who
> isn’t owned by the establishment.  If that’s Trump, so be it.  I’d take
> Triumph, the Insult Comic dog over anything the Democrats have and clearly
> over Cruz or Rubio who have both tried to sell us out.  We are $19T in 
> debt
> and it’s getting worse.  Other countries are bleeding us dry.   Hope and
> Change was a disaster and the corruption and immigration is worse, not
> better.  We are on the cusp of possibly electing the most evil liar ever,
> Hillary Clinton, and you think Trump would be worse without having any 
> idea
> how he would govern.
>
>
>
> Wow.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 9:36 AM
> *To:* Animal Farm
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "Attack on trump" video
>
>
>
> If someone really wants to get him no secret service is going to
> prevent it...and it doesn't have to a gun.   I don't want someone to kill
> him.  Thats not what are about..  how ugly that someone in crowd yells 
> kill
> him about protester.Trumps followers are craven lackeys (old cold war
> term- blind followers in simple language ).   Sounded like a gladiator
> event.   Sad
>
> On Mar 13, 2016 10:13 AM, "Josh Reynolds" 
> wrote:
>
> I had never watched this before, but I came across it today.
>
>
> https://video.twimg.com//ext_tw_video//708728294708015104//pu//vid//640x360//yHRkyZIQTjmheSW4.mp4
> 
>
> "Kill him!"
>
> "Kick his ass Donald!"... hah, I did laugh at the yelling
>
> The very first thing I noticed was the super weird reactions by the
> Secret Service. Pay attention to how long it takes for somebody to
> actually stand in *front* of him, and then *behind* him. I know a bit
> about VIP protection. Not a lot mind you, but a bit. They don't seem
> the least bit worried that this was a simple misdirection to pull the
> Secret Service's attention away from the real plan. Then they open his
> circle of protection back up *very* quickly...
>
> Maybe I'm overanalyzing the video, and maybe I'm thinking too highly
> of the capabilities and training of the Secret Service... but this all
> just looks like amateur hour to me.
>

Re: [AFMUG] "Attack on trump" video

2016-03-14 Thread Lewis Bergman

I don't believe anything any of them say. The only time they tell the truth
is when it benefits them. Like when someone else does something bad, even
if they themselves have done it before.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016, 10:52 AM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> not so, I don't like his ties or his hair..
>
> Jaime Solorza
> Wireless Systems Architect
> 915-861-1390
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 9:44 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> i think jaime has a mancrush on the donald
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 10:42 AM, Jaime Solorza <
>> losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> He should stick to TV ...he is good at it
>>>
>>> Jaime Solorza
>>> Wireless Systems Architect
>>> 915-861-1390
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 9:29 AM, Bill Prince 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 You can't trust 95% of what comes out of Trump's mouth. As of March 3,
 2016, he had almost the lowest "truthiness" of any Republican candidate
 (only Carson ranked lower).

 bp

 On 3/13/2016 5:54 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:

 I agree with this statement 100%. I have said this about Trump for
 almost six months now, and everyone laughed. I'm tired of the same ol' same
 ol' lifetime politicians that take money from special interest groups
 to keep everything running.

 It's time for a change. Say what you want about Trump, but even Fortune
 magazine has him at a $5 Billion Net Worth. Even if he did start with $1
 million from his dad 40 years ago, turning that into $5,000 million is
 pretty damn impressive.

 Travis

 On 3/13/2016 11:12 AM, Rory Conaway wrote:

 Seriously Jaime, craven lackeys?  I guess I’ve been called worse.  Are
 you even curious why both the Republican establishment and George Soros are
 both out to get him?  And don’t you want to find out what would happen if
 we put a real businessman in the White House instead of some stooge? As
 businessmen yourselves, I thought you would respect that.  Instead, you are
 more interested in your ideology than your economic welfare.

 There are those of us who simply want someone in power for once who
 isn’t owned by the establishment.  If that’s Trump, so be it.  I’d take
 Triumph, the Insult Comic dog over anything the Democrats have and clearly
 over Cruz or Rubio who have both tried to sell us out.  We are $19T in debt
 and it’s getting worse.  Other countries are bleeding us dry.   Hope and
 Change was a disaster and the corruption and immigration is worse, not
 better.  We are on the cusp of possibly electing the most evil liar ever,
 Hillary Clinton, and you think Trump would be worse without having any idea
 how he would govern.

 Wow.

 Rory

 *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
 Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
 *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 9:36 AM
 *To:* Animal Farm
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "Attack on trump" video

 If someone really wants to get him no secret service is going to
 prevent it...and it doesn't have to a gun.   I don't want someone to kill
 him.  Thats not what are about..  how ugly that someone in crowd yells kill
 him about protester.Trumps followers are craven lackeys (old cold war
 term- blind followers in simple language ).   Sounded like a gladiator
 event.   Sad

 On Mar 13, 2016 10:13 AM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:

 I had never watched this before, but I came across it today.

 https://video.twimg.com//ext_tw_video//708728294708015104//pu//vid//640x360//yHRkyZIQTjmheSW4.mp4

 "Kill him!"

 "Kick his ass Donald!"... hah, I did laugh at the yelling

 The very first thing I noticed was the super weird reactions by the
 Secret Service. Pay attention to how long it takes for somebody to
 actually stand in *front* of him, and then *behind* him. I know a bit
 about VIP protection. Not a lot mind you, but a bit. They don't seem
 the least bit worried that this was a simple misdirection to pull the
 Secret Service's attention away from the real plan. Then they open his
 circle of protection back up *very* quickly...

 Maybe I'm overanalyzing the video, and maybe I'm thinking too highly
 of the capabilities and training of the Secret Service... but this all
 just looks like amateur hour to me.

>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Telephone pole mount.. Dish / Sector..

And it sounds like you need two of these, correct?

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 6:43 PM, Peter Kranz  wrote:

> Its $145 on Tessco, pipe is 1.9” OD by 25.0” in length.
>
>
>
>
> *Peter Kranz*www.UnwiredLtd.com 
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Reynolds
> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 4:42 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Telephone pole mount.. Dish / Sector..
>
>
>
> Maybe you should first state the price available to your of the item you
> are referencing, along with any additional requirements.
>
>
>
> All you showed was a picture of something GSA catalog related - which
> means it normally costs a bazillion dollars :)
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 6:37 PM, Peter Kranz 
> wrote:
>
> Less pipe, a lot more expensive if I need to buy 2 of them and 1 longer
> connecting pipe designed for it...
>
>
>
>
> *Peter Kranz*www.UnwiredLtd.com 
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Reynolds
> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 4:28 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Telephone pole mount.. Dish / Sector..
>
>
>
> http://www.mccowntech.com/chain-mount/
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 6:26 PM, Peter Kranz 
> wrote:
>
> Need to mount a 24” dish and a sector antenna to a telephone pole.. Anyone
> used these things? The right way to go? It’s a heavy wind area.. Kinda
> looks like you just throw some lag bolts in and you are good to go.
>
>
>
> https://www.tessco.com/products/displayProductInfo.do?sku=367000
>
>
>
>
> *Peter Kranz*www.UnwiredLtd.com 
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[AFMUG] EV SSL

2016-03-14 Thread Eric Kuhnke

Extended validation (green bar with company name) SSL certificates are now
$99/year.  That's a lot less than the $299-350/year they used to cost.

If you're accepting credit cards directly online, are you changing to an EV
SSL cert?  If not, why?

https://www.ssls.com/

Re: [AFMUG] Telephone pole mount.. Dish / Sector..

Its $145 on Tessco, pipe is 1.9” OD by 25.0” in length.

 

Peter Kranz
  www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
  pkr...@unwiredltd.com

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 4:42 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Telephone pole mount.. Dish / Sector..

 

Maybe you should first state the price available to your of the item you are 
referencing, along with any additional requirements.

 

All you showed was a picture of something GSA catalog related - which means it 
normally costs a bazillion dollars :)

 

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 6:37 PM, Peter Kranz  > wrote:

Less pipe, a lot more expensive if I need to buy 2 of them and 1 longer 
connecting pipe designed for it...

 

Peter Kranz
  www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100  
Mobile: 510-207-  
  pkr...@unwiredltd.com

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com  ] On Behalf 
Of Josh Reynolds
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 4:28 PM
To: af@afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Telephone pole mount.. Dish / Sector..

 

http://www.mccowntech.com/chain-mount/

 

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 6:26 PM, Peter Kranz  > wrote:

Need to mount a 24” dish and a sector antenna to a telephone pole.. Anyone used 
these things? The right way to go? It’s a heavy wind area.. Kinda looks like 
you just throw some lag bolts in and you are good to go.

 

https://www.tessco.com/products/displayProductInfo.do?sku=367000

 



Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com  
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100  
Mobile: 510-207-  
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

Re: [AFMUG] Telephone pole mount.. Dish / Sector..

Maybe you should first state the price available to your of the item you
are referencing, along with any additional requirements.

All you showed was a picture of something GSA catalog related - which means
it normally costs a bazillion dollars :)

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 6:37 PM, Peter Kranz  wrote:

> Less pipe, a lot more expensive if I need to buy 2 of them and 1 longer
> connecting pipe designed for it...
>
>
>
>
> *Peter Kranz*www.UnwiredLtd.com 
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Reynolds
> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 4:28 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Telephone pole mount.. Dish / Sector..
>
>
>
> http://www.mccowntech.com/chain-mount/
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 6:26 PM, Peter Kranz 
> wrote:
>
> Need to mount a 24” dish and a sector antenna to a telephone pole.. Anyone
> used these things? The right way to go? It’s a heavy wind area.. Kinda
> looks like you just throw some lag bolts in and you are good to go.
>
>
>
> https://www.tessco.com/products/displayProductInfo.do?sku=367000
>
>
>
>
> *Peter Kranz*www.UnwiredLtd.com 
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Telephone pole mount.. Dish / Sector..

I'd be leery of mounting a 2' dish on anything smaller than a 2" pipe.
That looks like a 1" pipe.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 5:37 PM, Peter Kranz  wrote:

> Less pipe, a lot more expensive if I need to buy 2 of them and 1 longer
> connecting pipe designed for it...
>
>
>
>
> *Peter Kranz*www.UnwiredLtd.com 
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Reynolds
> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 4:28 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Telephone pole mount.. Dish / Sector..
>
>
>
> http://www.mccowntech.com/chain-mount/
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 6:26 PM, Peter Kranz 
> wrote:
>
> Need to mount a 24” dish and a sector antenna to a telephone pole.. Anyone
> used these things? The right way to go? It’s a heavy wind area.. Kinda
> looks like you just throw some lag bolts in and you are good to go.
>
>
>
> https://www.tessco.com/products/displayProductInfo.do?sku=367000
>
>
>
>
> *Peter Kranz*www.UnwiredLtd.com 
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Telephone pole mount.. Dish / Sector..

Less pipe, a lot more expensive if I need to buy 2 of them and 1 longer 
connecting pipe designed for it...

 

Peter Kranz
  www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
  pkr...@unwiredltd.com

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 4:28 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Telephone pole mount.. Dish / Sector..

 

http://www.mccowntech.com/chain-mount/

 

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 6:26 PM, Peter Kranz  > wrote:

Need to mount a 24” dish and a sector antenna to a telephone pole.. Anyone used 
these things? The right way to go? It’s a heavy wind area.. Kinda looks like 
you just throw some lag bolts in and you are good to go.

 

https://www.tessco.com/products/displayProductInfo.do?sku=367000

 



Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com  
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100  
Mobile: 510-207-  
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

Re: [AFMUG] Telephone pole mount.. Dish / Sector..

http://www.mccowntech.com/chain-mount/

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 6:26 PM, Peter Kranz  wrote:

> Need to mount a 24” dish and a sector antenna to a telephone pole.. Anyone
> used these things? The right way to go? It’s a heavy wind area.. Kinda
> looks like you just throw some lag bolts in and you are good to go.
>
>
>
> https://www.tessco.com/products/displayProductInfo.do?sku=367000
>
>
>
>
> *Peter Kranz*www.UnwiredLtd.com 
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
>
>

[AFMUG] Telephone pole mount.. Dish / Sector..

Need to mount a 24" dish and a sector antenna to a telephone pole.. Anyone
used these things? The right way to go? It's a heavy wind area.. Kinda looks
like you just throw some lag bolts in and you are good to go.

 

https://www.tessco.com/products/displayProductInfo.do?sku=367000

 



Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com  
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

Re: [AFMUG] KP 3.65/5 Ghz Sectors

Someone else will have to comment on that.  I found the best solution was
to remove the two side bolts and leave the bracket mounted to the pole.
Then loosen the two on top and swivel the sector up to remove the cover.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:57 PM, Brandon Yuchasz 
wrote:

> Without taking this one to far off track. Did they upgrade all the
> antennas brackets or if we buy one of the epmp5hz are we going to still not
> be able to open the cases when mounted on a tower?
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Brandon Yuchasz
>
> GogebicRange.net
>
> www.gogebicrange.net
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jeremy
> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 5:24 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] KP 3.65/5 Ghz Sectors
>
>
>
> Glad to hear they scrapped that.  I wanted some sort of a seal, but one
> that would slide in and out would be preferable.  Nobody wants to encounter
> a nest the size of one of those boxes at the top of a tower.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 2:13 PM, Ty Featherling 
> wrote:
>
> I complained about the addition of the cable glands because of the way it
> was implemented. The glands are part of the removable part of the box, not
> the stationary part. As a result to remove that cover on the box you had to
> loosen the cable glands, push enough slack through to allot you to swivel
> out the cover, and then let the cover hang with the cables going through
> it. Hated it. I talked to Shane about it and he said an engineer threw that
> feature in at the last minute and they have since removed them from the
> design. I said just redesign so that the cable glands are stationary at the
> bottom of the box and let the lid close around them. We'll see.
>
>
>
> I am using the dual-5Ghzsectors and have had great results with them. I am
> swapping out 120 that are full with these dual 60s using the same mounts
> and getting more capacity.
>
>
>
> -Ty
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Ty
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 2:14 PM, Jeremy  wrote:
>
> If you have used KP antennas before they have made some marked
> improvements over their old hardware designs.  The bracket is stronger, but
> also sticks out much further, removing the need to disconnect the sector to
> get the rear cover off.  If you are not using UBNT or EPMP, then the cover
> never needs to come off (except to connect the Type-N jumpers initially),
> and the 450 sectors can be mounted to the cover.  Having not done that, I
> am guessing it will be a fairly tight fit.  The grooves are the correct
> size this time, and Rockets fit without modifications (after a slip up in
> manufacturing and testing that we received on our last order).  The EPMP
> adapter also appears to work, although I haven't tried it personally.
>
>
>
> Also, the shielded boxes used to fill up with Wasps, but now they have
> cable glands leading into the AP case.  My only complaint with this new
> improvement was that the shielded connectors do not fit through the gland.
> It's a lesson that I should have learned long ago, but I didn'tso I had
> to cut the ends off, push them through, and then re-terminate them.
>
>
>
> We are only using the 2.4GHz/5GHz combos, and have been happy with their
> performance.  They are a huge antenna, but not as big as two antennas.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications
> Inc  wrote:
>
> Good afternoon,
>
>
>
> If you have deployed the KP Performance 3.65/5Ghz Dual Sectors, I am
> curious how they are working for you.
>
> Also, if you are, did you have to modify any part of the equipment for
> proper mounting/installations?
>
>
>
> To save tower space, I am considering deploying several but don’t won’t to
> have performance problems.
>
>
>
> *Tyson Burris, President*
> *Internet Communications Inc.*
> *739 Commerce Dr.*
> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>
> *317-738-0320 <317-738-0320> Daytime #*
> *317-412-1540 <317-412-1540> Cell/Direct #*
> *Online: **www.surfici.net* 
>
>
>
> [image: ICI]
>
> *What can ICI do for you?*
>
>
> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP
> Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*
>
> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
> *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
> *dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
> *unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
> *prohibited.*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[AFMUG] WISPA Pub Crawl

2016-03-14 Thread Jeff Broadwick - Lists

Go to either Howl at the Moon or Birracibo.  The sports pub is crammed.

Jeff Broadwick
ConVergence Technologies, Inc.
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@converge-tech.com

Re: [AFMUG] KP 3.65/5 Ghz Sectors

2016-03-14 Thread Brandon Yuchasz

Without taking this one to far off track. Did they upgrade all the antennas 
brackets or if we buy one of the epmp5hz are we going to still not be able to 
open the cases when mounted on a tower?

 

Best regards,

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

www.gogebicrange.net  

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 5:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] KP 3.65/5 Ghz Sectors

 

Glad to hear they scrapped that.  I wanted some sort of a seal, but one that 
would slide in and out would be preferable.  Nobody wants to encounter a nest 
the size of one of those boxes at the top of a tower.

 

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 2:13 PM, Ty Featherling  wrote:

I complained about the addition of the cable glands because of the way it was 
implemented. The glands are part of the removable part of the box, not the 
stationary part. As a result to remove that cover on the box you had to loosen 
the cable glands, push enough slack through to allot you to swivel out the 
cover, and then let the cover hang with the cables going through it. Hated it. 
I talked to Shane about it and he said an engineer threw that feature in at the 
last minute and they have since removed them from the design. I said just 
redesign so that the cable glands are stationary at the bottom of the box and 
let the lid close around them. We'll see.

 

I am using the dual-5Ghzsectors and have had great results with them. I am 
swapping out 120 that are full with these dual 60s using the same mounts and 
getting more capacity.

 

-Ty




 

 

-Ty

 

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 2:14 PM, Jeremy  wrote:

If you have used KP antennas before they have made some marked improvements 
over their old hardware designs.  The bracket is stronger, but also sticks out 
much further, removing the need to disconnect the sector to get the rear cover 
off.  If you are not using UBNT or EPMP, then the cover never needs to come off 
(except to connect the Type-N jumpers initially), and the 450 sectors can be 
mounted to the cover.  Having not done that, I am guessing it will be a fairly 
tight fit.  The grooves are the correct size this time, and Rockets fit without 
modifications (after a slip up in manufacturing and testing that we received on 
our last order).  The EPMP adapter also appears to work, although I haven't 
tried it personally.

 

Also, the shielded boxes used to fill up with Wasps, but now they have cable 
glands leading into the AP case.  My only complaint with this new improvement 
was that the shielded connectors do not fit through the gland.  It's a lesson 
that I should have learned long ago, but I didn'tso I had to cut the ends 
off, push them through, and then re-terminate them. 

 

We are only using the 2.4GHz/5GHz combos, and have been happy with their 
performance.  They are a huge antenna, but not as big as two antennas.

 

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications Inc 
 wrote:

Good afternoon,

 

If you have deployed the KP Performance 3.65/5Ghz Dual Sectors, I am curious 
how they are working for you.

Also, if you are, did you have to modify any part of the equipment for proper 
mounting/installations?  

 

To save tower space, I am considering deploying several but don’t won’t to have 
performance problems.

 

Tyson Burris, President 
Internet Communications Inc. 
739 Commerce Dr. 
Franklin, IN 46131 
  
317-738-0320 Daytime # 
317-412-1540 Cell/Direct # 
Online:   www.surfici.net 

 

ICI

What can ICI do for you? 


Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure. 
  
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the 
addressee shown. It contains information that is 
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review, 
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by 
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly 
prohibited.

Re: [AFMUG] CTI

2016-03-14 Thread Eric Kuhnke

Man Pull, Washington:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pullman,_Washington

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 3:52 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> http://gothamgreens.com/our-farms/pullman
> http://farmedhere.com/
>
>
> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 5:38 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CTI
>
>
> When I was a teenager, I tried my hand at hydroponics. I'd be rich by now
> if my folks hadn't been all uppity about felony drug manufacturing.
> On Mar 14, 2016 5:28 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
> wrote:
>
>> Hydroponics was another of his ventures
>> On Mar 14, 2016 4:02 PM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:
>>
>>> The story I heard is Charles always portrayed himself as an/the owner
>>> but never was. That was from someone at CTI. He was a bright guy no matter
>>> what else was the deal.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:57 PM  wrote:
>>>
 Pretty sure he was originally.  But there have been plenty of changes
 since then.  I am sure someone will have an authoritative answer.

 *From:* Kurt Fankhauser 
 *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 3:55 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CTI
 I thought Charles Wu was the owner or main owner. Only met him once in
 Chicago at WISP-NOG back in the Pioneer days and WISPA was just starting 
 up.
 On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 5:07 PM, Jaime Solorza <
 losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thought he was the man
> On Mar 14, 2016 2:58 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Not directly if at all.
>>
>> *From:* Jaime Solorza 
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 2:51 PM
>> *To:* Animal Farm 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CTI
>>
>>
>> Is Charles Wu still involved?
>> On Mar 14, 2016 2:46 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>> Not approved by SAF seemed to sell more at one point in time.
>>> That was a funny fiasco.
>>>
>>> *From:* mailto:p...@believewireless.net 
>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 2:41 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CTI
>>>
>>> I thought you would hope he would end up owning SAF! Then everything
>>> you make could be SAF approved!
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:40 PM,  wrote:
>>>
 I hope ends up owning the joint.  Nothing against the current
 owners, but someday when they get tired

 *From:* mailto:p...@believewireless.net 
 *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 2:39 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CTI

 How many months do you think he'll stay there?

 On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:34 PM,  wrote:

> Daniel White is now is now Vice President of Sales at Convergence
> Technologies.
> Congrats Daniel!
>


>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] CTI

http://gothamgreens.com/our-farms/pullman
http://farmedhere.com/

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 5:38 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CTI

When I was a teenager, I tried my hand at hydroponics. I'd be rich by now if my 
folks hadn't been all uppity about felony drug manufacturing.

On Mar 14, 2016 5:28 PM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:

  Hydroponics was another of his ventures

  On Mar 14, 2016 4:02 PM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:

The story I heard is Charles always portrayed himself as an/the owner but 
never was. That was from someone at CTI. He was a bright guy no matter what 
else was the deal.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:57 PM  wrote:

  Pretty sure he was originally.  But there have been plenty of changes 
since then.  I am sure someone will have an authoritative answer.  

  From: Kurt Fankhauser 
  Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 3:55 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CTI
  I thought Charles Wu was the owner or main owner. Only met him once in 
Chicago at WISP-NOG back in the Pioneer days and WISPA was just starting up.
  On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 5:07 PM, Jaime Solorza 
 wrote:

Thought he was the man 

On Mar 14, 2016 2:58 PM,  wrote:

  Not directly if at all.  

  From: Jaime Solorza 
  Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 2:51 PM
  To: Animal Farm 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CTI

  Is Charles Wu still involved? 

  On Mar 14, 2016 2:46 PM,  wrote:

Not approved by SAF seemed to sell more at one point in time.
That was a funny fiasco.  

From: mailto:p...@believewireless.net 
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 2:41 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CTI

I thought you would hope he would end up owning SAF! Then 
everything you make could be SAF approved!

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:40 PM,  wrote:

  I hope ends up owning the joint.  Nothing against the current 
owners, but someday when they get tired

  From: mailto:p...@believewireless.net 
  Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 2:39 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CTI

  How many months do you think he'll stay there?

  On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:34 PM,  wrote:

Daniel White is now is now Vice President of Sales at 
Convergence Technologies.
Congrats Daniel!

Re: [AFMUG] CTI

2016-03-14 Thread That One Guy /sarcasm

When I was a teenager, I tried my hand at hydroponics. I'd be rich by now
if my folks hadn't been all uppity about felony drug manufacturing.
On Mar 14, 2016 5:28 PM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:

> Hydroponics was another of his ventures
> On Mar 14, 2016 4:02 PM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:
>
>> The story I heard is Charles always portrayed himself as an/the owner but
>> never was. That was from someone at CTI. He was a bright guy no matter what
>> else was the deal.
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:57 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> Pretty sure he was originally.  But there have been plenty of changes
>>> since then.  I am sure someone will have an authoritative answer.
>>>
>>> *From:* Kurt Fankhauser 
>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 3:55 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CTI
>>> I thought Charles Wu was the owner or main owner. Only met him once in
>>> Chicago at WISP-NOG back in the Pioneer days and WISPA was just starting up.
>>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 5:07 PM, Jaime Solorza <
>>> losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Thought he was the man
 On Mar 14, 2016 2:58 PM,  wrote:

> Not directly if at all.
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 2:51 PM
> *To:* Animal Farm 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CTI
>
>
> Is Charles Wu still involved?
> On Mar 14, 2016 2:46 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Not approved by SAF seemed to sell more at one point in time.
>> That was a funny fiasco.
>>
>> *From:* mailto:p...@believewireless.net 
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 2:41 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CTI
>>
>> I thought you would hope he would end up owning SAF! Then everything
>> you make could be SAF approved!
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:40 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>> I hope ends up owning the joint.  Nothing against the current
>>> owners, but someday when they get tired
>>>
>>> *From:* mailto:p...@believewireless.net 
>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 2:39 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CTI
>>>
>>> How many months do you think he'll stay there?
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:34 PM,  wrote:
>>>
 Daniel White is now is now Vice President of Sales at Convergence
 Technologies.
 Congrats Daniel!

>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] CTI

His mum has a PhD and worked at Bell Labs among other places.  So lots of 
brains in that family.

From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 5:26 PM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CTI

Yes agree on brains part... his mum was the $$ person in his family 
according to someone who knew him well.  

On Mar 14, 2016 4:02 PM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:

  The story I heard is Charles always portrayed himself as an/the owner but 
never was. That was from someone at CTI. He was a bright guy no matter what 
else was the deal.

  On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:57 PM  wrote:

Pretty sure he was originally.  But there have been plenty of changes since 
then.  I am sure someone will have an authoritative answer.  

From: Kurt Fankhauser 
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 3:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CTI
I thought Charles Wu was the owner or main owner. Only met him once in 
Chicago at WISP-NOG back in the Pioneer days and WISPA was just starting up.
On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 5:07 PM, Jaime Solorza  
wrote:

  Thought he was the man 

  On Mar 14, 2016 2:58 PM,  wrote:

Not directly if at all.  

From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 2:51 PM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CTI

Is Charles Wu still involved? 

On Mar 14, 2016 2:46 PM,  wrote:

  Not approved by SAF seemed to sell more at one point in time.
  That was a funny fiasco.  

  From: mailto:p...@believewireless.net 
  Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 2:41 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CTI

  I thought you would hope he would end up owning SAF! Then everything 
you make could be SAF approved!

  On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:40 PM,  wrote:

I hope ends up owning the joint.  Nothing against the current 
owners, but someday when they get tired

From: mailto:p...@believewireless.net 
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 2:39 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CTI

How many months do you think he'll stay there?

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:34 PM,  wrote:

  Daniel White is now is now Vice President of Sales at Convergence 
Technologies.
  Congrats Daniel!

Re: [AFMUG] CTI

Hydroponics was another of his ventures
On Mar 14, 2016 4:02 PM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:

> The story I heard is Charles always portrayed himself as an/the owner but
> never was. That was from someone at CTI. He was a bright guy no matter what
> else was the deal.
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:57 PM  wrote:
>
>> Pretty sure he was originally.  But there have been plenty of changes
>> since then.  I am sure someone will have an authoritative answer.
>>
>> *From:* Kurt Fankhauser 
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 3:55 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CTI
>> I thought Charles Wu was the owner or main owner. Only met him once in
>> Chicago at WISP-NOG back in the Pioneer days and WISPA was just starting up.
>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 5:07 PM, Jaime Solorza > > wrote:
>>
>>> Thought he was the man
>>> On Mar 14, 2016 2:58 PM,  wrote:
>>>
 Not directly if at all.

 *From:* Jaime Solorza 
 *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 2:51 PM
 *To:* Animal Farm 
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CTI


 Is Charles Wu still involved?
 On Mar 14, 2016 2:46 PM,  wrote:

> Not approved by SAF seemed to sell more at one point in time.
> That was a funny fiasco.
>
> *From:* mailto:p...@believewireless.net 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 2:41 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CTI
>
> I thought you would hope he would end up owning SAF! Then everything
> you make could be SAF approved!
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:40 PM,  wrote:
>
>> I hope ends up owning the joint.  Nothing against the current owners,
>> but someday when they get tired
>>
>> *From:* mailto:p...@believewireless.net 
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 2:39 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CTI
>>
>> How many months do you think he'll stay there?
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:34 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>> Daniel White is now is now Vice President of Sales at Convergence
>>> Technologies.
>>> Congrats Daniel!
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] CTI

Yes agree on brains part... his mum was the $$ person in his family
according to someone who knew him well.
On Mar 14, 2016 4:02 PM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:

> The story I heard is Charles always portrayed himself as an/the owner but
> never was. That was from someone at CTI. He was a bright guy no matter what
> else was the deal.
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:57 PM  wrote:
>
>> Pretty sure he was originally.  But there have been plenty of changes
>> since then.  I am sure someone will have an authoritative answer.
>>
>> *From:* Kurt Fankhauser 
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 3:55 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CTI
>> I thought Charles Wu was the owner or main owner. Only met him once in
>> Chicago at WISP-NOG back in the Pioneer days and WISPA was just starting up.
>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 5:07 PM, Jaime Solorza > > wrote:
>>
>>> Thought he was the man
>>> On Mar 14, 2016 2:58 PM,  wrote:
>>>
 Not directly if at all.

 *From:* Jaime Solorza 
 *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 2:51 PM
 *To:* Animal Farm 
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CTI


 Is Charles Wu still involved?
 On Mar 14, 2016 2:46 PM,  wrote:

> Not approved by SAF seemed to sell more at one point in time.
> That was a funny fiasco.
>
> *From:* mailto:p...@believewireless.net 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 2:41 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CTI
>
> I thought you would hope he would end up owning SAF! Then everything
> you make could be SAF approved!
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:40 PM,  wrote:
>
>> I hope ends up owning the joint.  Nothing against the current owners,
>> but someday when they get tired
>>
>> *From:* mailto:p...@believewireless.net 
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 2:39 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CTI
>>
>> How many months do you think he'll stay there?
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:34 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>> Daniel White is now is now Vice President of Sales at Convergence
>>> Technologies.
>>> Congrats Daniel!
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the minute.....Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters, says he may pay legal fees - LA Times

Ah yes. The double bind. The classic one is "Have you stopped beating
your wife yet?".

http://www.kevinfitzmaurice.com/free-stuff/communication-skills/how-to-handle-double-bind-questions/

On 3/14/2016 1:37 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
I followed the link to that Youtube video of Cambium hitting a radio
with a baseball bat, and Youtube suggested this video to me. It is a
brilliant explanation of the techniques Trump uses to be a master
persuader. Worth watching no matter what you think of Trump as a
presidential candidate:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LR6EA91zLo
Makes me want to buy some Trump steaks and wash them down with Trump
water.

*From:* Lewis Bergman
*Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 3:16 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the
minute.Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by
supporters, says he may pay legal fees - LA Times
Yea. If he does somehow become president I wish as much success
playing Putin as he has had with the media.
On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 3:01 PM That One Guy /sarcasm
> wrote:

"officials"
On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 2:28 PM, Jaime Solorza
> wrote:

So Chicago officials are claiming law enforcement never
discussed decision to cancel event at college of Friday and
worse that Trumps campaign knew damn well that this part of
town is diverse, Democratic and has not voted Republican since
Teddy Roosevelt.
Damn nice stuntif true...he could have had much better
results in the Mexican capital..Los Angeles,
Californiasas!!! too easy

Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 12:48 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
>
wrote:

Obama did touch me.
On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 11:35 AM, D. Ryan Spott
> wrote:

Thanks Obama: for Rory.

ryan

On 3/14/16 9:29 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I think maybe Rory has been reading WND again, and is
talking about this guy who definitely appears not to
still be in jail. Well, he is in the 2013 WND article.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakoula_Basseley_Nakoula
Rory is a big Benghazi conspiracy theorist, judging
from past posts. Oh, and “Obama”.
*From:* Jaime Solorza
*Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 11:14 AM
*To:* Animal Farm
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier
by the minute.Trump takes a step toward
supporting violence by supporters, says he may pay
legal fees - LA Times
Interesting choice of words, "Obama and Hillary had a
guy who made a video arrested on a _trumped_ up
charge and he is still in jail."

What is this video or guy you are talking about?
Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390
On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 10:06 AM, Rory Conaway
> wrote:

This isn’t like he charged at some poor slob on
the street, Trump is a presidential candidate.
If this was Hillary, the FBI would be holding him

for several days and assigned 60 FBI agents to
tear his life apart. Obama and Hillary had a guy
who made a video arrested on a trumped up charge
and he is still in jail.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Ken
Hohhof
*Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 9:03 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets
funnier by the minute.Trump takes a step
toward supporting violence by supporters, says he
may pay legal fees - LA Times

He posted bond. He has a court date, I think
today or tomorrow, pending charges disorderly
conduct and inducing panic. That’s the system.
Geez, if you don’t know, you could Google it.

Re: [AFMUG] CTI

2016-03-14 Thread Lewis Bergman

The story I heard is Charles always portrayed himself as an/the owner but
never was. That was from someone at CTI. He was a bright guy no matter what
else was the deal.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:57 PM  wrote:

> Pretty sure he was originally.  But there have been plenty of changes
> since then.  I am sure someone will have an authoritative answer.
>
> *From:* Kurt Fankhauser 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 3:55 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CTI
> I thought Charles Wu was the owner or main owner. Only met him once in
> Chicago at WISP-NOG back in the Pioneer days and WISPA was just starting up.
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 5:07 PM, Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> Thought he was the man
>> On Mar 14, 2016 2:58 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>> Not directly if at all.
>>>
>>> *From:* Jaime Solorza 
>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 2:51 PM
>>> *To:* Animal Farm 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CTI
>>>
>>>
>>> Is Charles Wu still involved?
>>> On Mar 14, 2016 2:46 PM,  wrote:
>>>
 Not approved by SAF seemed to sell more at one point in time.
 That was a funny fiasco.

 *From:* mailto:p...@believewireless.net 
 *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 2:41 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CTI

 I thought you would hope he would end up owning SAF! Then everything
 you make could be SAF approved!

 On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:40 PM,  wrote:

> I hope ends up owning the joint.  Nothing against the current owners,
> but someday when they get tired
>
> *From:* mailto:p...@believewireless.net 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 2:39 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CTI
>
> How many months do you think he'll stay there?
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:34 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Daniel White is now is now Vice President of Sales at Convergence
>> Technologies.
>> Congrats Daniel!
>>
>
>


>>>

Re: [AFMUG] CTI

Pretty sure he was originally.  But there have been plenty of changes since 
then.  I am sure someone will have an authoritative answer.  

From: Kurt Fankhauser 
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 3:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CTI

I thought Charles Wu was the owner or main owner. Only met him once in Chicago 
at WISP-NOG back in the Pioneer days and WISPA was just starting up.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 5:07 PM, Jaime Solorza  
wrote:

  Thought he was the man 

  On Mar 14, 2016 2:58 PM,  wrote:

Not directly if at all.  

From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 2:51 PM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CTI

Is Charles Wu still involved? 

On Mar 14, 2016 2:46 PM,  wrote:

  Not approved by SAF seemed to sell more at one point in time.
  That was a funny fiasco.  

  From: mailto:p...@believewireless.net 
  Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 2:41 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CTI

  I thought you would hope he would end up owning SAF! Then everything you 
make could be SAF approved!

  On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:40 PM,  wrote:

I hope ends up owning the joint.  Nothing against the current owners, 
but someday when they get tired

From: mailto:p...@believewireless.net 
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 2:39 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CTI

How many months do you think he'll stay there?

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:34 PM,  wrote:

  Daniel White is now is now Vice President of Sales at Convergence 
Technologies.
  Congrats Daniel!

Re: [AFMUG] CTI

2016-03-14 Thread Kurt Fankhauser

I thought Charles Wu was the owner or main owner. Only met him once in
Chicago at WISP-NOG back in the Pioneer days and WISPA was just starting up.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 5:07 PM, Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Thought he was the man
> On Mar 14, 2016 2:58 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Not directly if at all.
>>
>> *From:* Jaime Solorza 
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 2:51 PM
>> *To:* Animal Farm 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CTI
>>
>>
>> Is Charles Wu still involved?
>> On Mar 14, 2016 2:46 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>> Not approved by SAF seemed to sell more at one point in time.
>>> That was a funny fiasco.
>>>
>>> *From:* mailto:p...@believewireless.net 
>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 2:41 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CTI
>>>
>>> I thought you would hope he would end up owning SAF! Then everything you
>>> make could be SAF approved!
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:40 PM,  wrote:
>>>
 I hope ends up owning the joint.  Nothing against the current owners,
 but someday when they get tired

 *From:* mailto:p...@believewireless.net 
 *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 2:39 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CTI

 How many months do you think he'll stay there?

 On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:34 PM,  wrote:

> Daniel White is now is now Vice President of Sales at Convergence
> Technologies.
> Congrats Daniel!
>


>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Baseball bat vs PTP 650

Ha.  Too be young.   I remember BreezeComs Bruce Sanguenetti throwing a
radio on the ground and kicking it a training course ...and it still
worked.  He used that ploy in sales calls as well.
On Mar 14, 2016 3:26 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:

> If I was single I would Ninja the Shit(tm) out of that.
>
> JAV girls though... muy caliente.
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:24 PM, Jaime Solorza
>  wrote:
> > Hey Josh  they are looking to hire 6 full time Ninjas for tourist shows
> in
> > Aichi Japan..  it's in Newsweek
>

Re: [AFMUG] Baseball bat vs PTP 650

2016-03-14 Thread Sriram Chaturvedi

We would have but it would’ve turned into a 5 day test (match). Who has time 
for that. :)

On Mar 14, 2016, at 4:29 PM, Eric Kuhnke 
> wrote:

Now do this with a Cricket bat for your overseas market in ZA, IN, PK, BD, NZ, 
AU, UK...  :-)

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 2:12 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:

Give me a couple 650 and a bat.  I'll show you.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mar 14, 2016 4:25 PM, "Alex Marcham" 
> 
wrote:
Hi All,

We just did some unorthodox reliability testing with the PTP 650:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZJcoNHmgE0

The radio works fine but my bat has seen better days. Anyone given a radio a 
worse beating?

Thanks,

Alex Marcham
Engineering
alex.marc...@cambiumnetworks.com

Re: [AFMUG] Baseball bat vs PTP 650

2016-03-14 Thread Eric Kuhnke

Now do this with a Cricket bat for your overseas market in ZA, IN, PK, BD,
NZ, AU, UK...  :-)



On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 2:12 PM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Give me a couple 650 and a bat.  I'll show you.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Mar 14, 2016 4:25 PM, "Alex Marcham" 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>>
>>
>> We just did some unorthodox reliability testing with the PTP 650:
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZJcoNHmgE0
>>
>>
>>
>> The radio works fine but my bat has seen better days. Anyone given a
>> radio a worse beating?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> *Alex Marcham*
>>
>> Engineering
>>
>> alex.marc...@cambiumnetworks.com
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Baseball bat vs PTP 650

If I was single I would Ninja the Shit(tm) out of that.

JAV girls though... muy caliente.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:24 PM, Jaime Solorza
 wrote:
> Hey Josh  they are looking to hire 6 full time Ninjas for tourist shows in
> Aichi Japan..  it's in Newsweek

Re: [AFMUG] Baseball bat vs PTP 650

Hey Josh  they are looking to hire 6 full time Ninjas for tourist shows in
Aichi Japan..  it's in Newsweek

Re: [AFMUG] Baseball bat vs PTP 650

Tough crowd Alex
On Mar 14, 2016 2:25 PM, "Alex Marcham" 
wrote:

> Hi All,
>
>
>
> We just did some unorthodox reliability testing with the PTP 650:
>
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZJcoNHmgE0
>
>
>
> The radio works fine but my bat has seen better days. Anyone given a radio
> a worse beating?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> *Alex Marcham*
>
> Engineering
>
> alex.marc...@cambiumnetworks.com
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Baseball bat vs PTP 650

2016-03-14 Thread That One Guy /sarcasm

Is cambium issuing a challenge here? it sure seems like a challenge

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:13 PM,  wrote:

> Let’s drop some from a tower.  Various heights.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 3:12 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Baseball bat vs PTP 650
>
>
> Give me a couple 650 and a bat.  I'll show you.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Mar 14, 2016 4:25 PM, "Alex Marcham" 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>>
>>
>> We just did some unorthodox reliability testing with the PTP 650:
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZJcoNHmgE0
>>
>>
>>
>> The radio works fine but my bat has seen better days. Anyone given a
>> radio a worse beating?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> *Alex Marcham*
>>
>> Engineering
>>
>> alex.marc...@cambiumnetworks.com
>>
>>
>>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Baseball bat vs PTP 650

Thermate! :)

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:13 PM,   wrote:
> Let’s drop some from a tower.  Various heights.
>
> From: Josh Luthman
> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 3:12 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baseball bat vs PTP 650
>
>
> Give me a couple 650 and a bat.  I'll show you.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Mar 14, 2016 4:25 PM, "Alex Marcham" 
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>>
>>
>> We just did some unorthodox reliability testing with the PTP 650:
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZJcoNHmgE0
>>
>>
>>
>> The radio works fine but my bat has seen better days. Anyone given a radio
>> a worse beating?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> Alex Marcham
>>
>> Engineering
>>
>> alex.marc...@cambiumnetworks.com
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Baseball bat vs PTP 650

Let’s drop some from a tower.  Various heights.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 3:12 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baseball bat vs PTP 650

Give me a couple 650 and a bat.  I'll show you.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mar 14, 2016 4:25 PM, "Alex Marcham"  
wrote:

  Hi All,



  We just did some unorthodox reliability testing with the PTP 650: 



  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZJcoNHmgE0



  The radio works fine but my bat has seen better days. Anyone given a radio a 
worse beating?



  Thanks,



  Alex Marcham

  Engineering

  alex.marc...@cambiumnetworks.com

Re: [AFMUG] Baseball bat vs PTP 650

2016-03-14 Thread Josh Luthman

Give me a couple 650 and a bat.  I'll show you.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Mar 14, 2016 4:25 PM, "Alex Marcham" 
wrote:

> Hi All,
>
>
>
> We just did some unorthodox reliability testing with the PTP 650:
>
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZJcoNHmgE0
>
>
>
> The radio works fine but my bat has seen better days. Anyone given a radio
> a worse beating?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> *Alex Marcham*
>
> Engineering
>
> alex.marc...@cambiumnetworks.com
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT - How a Horn antenna changed our view of the universe

ET phone home...cool
On Mar 14, 2016 2:51 PM, "Hardy, Tim"  wrote:

> Political overload today – thought you might enjoy this!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.slate.com/blogs/atlas_obscura/2013/09/16/how_the_holmdel_horn_antenna_in_new_jersey_changed_our_understanding_of.html
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] CTI

Thought he was the man
On Mar 14, 2016 2:58 PM,  wrote:

> Not directly if at all.
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 2:51 PM
> *To:* Animal Farm 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CTI
>
>
> Is Charles Wu still involved?
> On Mar 14, 2016 2:46 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Not approved by SAF seemed to sell more at one point in time.
>> That was a funny fiasco.
>>
>> *From:* mailto:p...@believewireless.net 
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 2:41 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CTI
>>
>> I thought you would hope he would end up owning SAF! Then everything you
>> make could be SAF approved!
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:40 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>> I hope ends up owning the joint.  Nothing against the current owners,
>>> but someday when they get tired
>>>
>>> *From:* mailto:p...@believewireless.net 
>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 2:39 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CTI
>>>
>>> How many months do you think he'll stay there?
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:34 PM,  wrote:
>>>
 Daniel White is now is now Vice President of Sales at Convergence
 Technologies.
 Congrats Daniel!

>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT heroin

Thanks for sharing.   That takes balls.  My sister now 47 looks 65 and she
started my daughter on it.. my sister says she is wants to kick but never
takes  steps to do it.  My daughter did and we are thankful... it drained
my savings accounts rehab is expensive I lost allot of equipment to
her addiction which she pawned or sold to get a fix.   Its all water under
the bridge she is alive and doing great.  You will be in my prayers Sam
I Am
On Mar 14, 2016 2:39 PM, "Sam Lambie"  wrote:

> Sixteen years ago I did my last hit of Meth. I was addicted for 3 years
> and saw and did some shit that could only be in the movies. I left
> California and came home to NM and cleaned up. Thankfully I have a family
> that was loving and caring to nurse me back to health. ( I weighed 135lbs,
> now I am 170lbs 5'10")
> Many of my past friends have been buried or sent to jail. Only a few have
> made it out to the normal side of life. And yes, I was the one that decided
> that enough was enough. Trying to get someone to get off of drugs is almost
> an impossible venture, they have to realize it themselves and ask for help.
> I have empathy for drug addicts, but not much sympathy or trust for them.
>
> On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 10:46 AM, Jaime Solorza  > wrote:
>
>> Remember I said this was personalmy ex wife's brother took her car
>> while she slept and ran into a motorcycle officer stopped behind a truck
>> two days ago. Officer in critical condition,  three others injured and her
>> car caught fire.   He was on heroinshe had already reported car stolen
>> and she was called in to offer statement.Many had tried to clean him up
>> and my son helped get him into school for HVAC.   This lasted a month and
>> he disappeared for a week.  Broke into garage and got keys from kitchen.
>> We as a family are praying for officer and family.   I pray for all
>> addicts
>> On Mar 12, 2016 10:29 AM, "Bill Prince"  wrote:
>>
>>> Bringing back an old(er) topic here. This is a story from Frontline
>>> regarding this very issue. Entitled *Chasing Heroin*. It's kind of long
>>> (almost 2 hours), and parts of it were difficult to watch, but it delves
>>> into how we got here, and how difficult it is for addicts to get out. It
>>> explores a few of the many ways that different communities have tried
>>> (emphasis on the word "tried") to get out of the apparent death spiral.
>>>
>>> It's clear that we have a long way to go.
>>>
>>> 
>>> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/chasing-heroin/
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/2/2016 10:08 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>>>
>>> So another fella I used to know ODd today. He is the youngest of three
>>> brothers, the oldest having croaked out from overdose a few years ago, the
>>> middle is on the run after cutting an ankle bracelet for heroin charges and
>>> now the mom whom I used to work with gets to put a second son in the dirt.
>>> Somewhere between 10 and 20 of the folks I used to run around with are
>>> feeding worms now, I quit taking actual count some time ago. I personally
>>> don't care about dead junkies, while they're smacked out, they aren't
>>> people, just shells of people, a danger to everyone around them I help the
>>> few who can be salvaged, I'm selfish in that I won't expose my family, but
>>> for example, last year I dropped off a backpack with food toiletries,
>>> cigarettes and and blanket to an old friend who was homeless and in some
>>> need, but that's as much as I can enable these guys. Is this new? Or am I
>>> just hitting an age where the sins of our past begin to catch up?
>>>
>>> As an industry, in our scope, is there any reaching out we can do? We
>>> are in people's homes regularly, is there a link to resources we can
>>> provide? Is there any way we can be a part of the solution or are we just
>>> to isolated of an industry to do anything?
>>>
>>> I know it's a pick your battles world, nobody can help everybody, but
>>> this is madness, the destruction of so many lives and the collateral damage
>>> from one drug is astounding.  Everybody, even homeless junkies are online.
>>> Granted our base tends not to be the smack addled youth, but would things
>>> like resource links on our websites, or outreach program info in our
>>> welcome packs be overstepping our bounds. I'm curious on a personal level
>>> because I have no other resource than my job.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
> --
> --
> *Sam Lambie*
> Taosnet Wireless Tech.
> 575-758-7598 Office
> www.Taosnet.com 
>

Re: [AFMUG] CTI

Not directly if at all.  

From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 2:51 PM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CTI

Is Charles Wu still involved? 

On Mar 14, 2016 2:46 PM,  wrote:

  Not approved by SAF seemed to sell more at one point in time.
  That was a funny fiasco.  

  From: mailto:p...@believewireless.net 
  Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 2:41 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CTI

  I thought you would hope he would end up owning SAF! Then everything you make 
could be SAF approved!

  On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:40 PM,  wrote:

I hope ends up owning the joint.  Nothing against the current owners, but 
someday when they get tired

From: mailto:p...@believewireless.net 
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 2:39 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CTI

How many months do you think he'll stay there?

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:34 PM,  wrote:

  Daniel White is now is now Vice President of Sales at Convergence 
Technologies.
  Congrats Daniel!

Re: [AFMUG] CTI

Is Charles Wu still involved?
On Mar 14, 2016 2:46 PM,  wrote:

> Not approved by SAF seemed to sell more at one point in time.
> That was a funny fiasco.
>
> *From:* mailto:p...@believewireless.net 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 2:41 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CTI
>
> I thought you would hope he would end up owning SAF! Then everything you
> make could be SAF approved!
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:40 PM,  wrote:
>
>> I hope ends up owning the joint.  Nothing against the current owners, but
>> someday when they get tired
>>
>> *From:* mailto:p...@believewireless.net 
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 2:39 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CTI
>>
>> How many months do you think he'll stay there?
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:34 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>> Daniel White is now is now Vice President of Sales at Convergence
>>> Technologies.
>>> Congrats Daniel!
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] CTI

Not approved by SAF seemed to sell more at one point in time.
That was a funny fiasco.  

From: mailto:p...@believewireless.net 
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 2:41 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CTI

I thought you would hope he would end up owning SAF! Then everything you make 
could be SAF approved!

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:40 PM,  wrote:

  I hope ends up owning the joint.  Nothing against the current owners, but 
someday when they get tired

  From: mailto:p...@believewireless.net 
  Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 2:39 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CTI

  How many months do you think he'll stay there?

  On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:34 PM,  wrote:

Daniel White is now is now Vice President of Sales at Convergence 
Technologies.
Congrats Daniel!

Re: [AFMUG] CTI

hah :)

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 3:40 PM,   wrote:
> I hope ends up owning the joint.  Nothing against the current owners, but
> someday when they get tired
>
> From: mailto:p...@believewireless.net
> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 2:39 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CTI
>
> How many months do you think he'll stay there?
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:34 PM,  wrote:
>>
>> Daniel White is now is now Vice President of Sales at Convergence
>> Technologies.
>> Congrats Daniel!
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] CTI

2016-03-14 Thread can...@believewireless.net

I thought you would hope he would end up owning SAF! Then everything you
make could be SAF approved!

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:40 PM,  wrote:

> I hope ends up owning the joint.  Nothing against the current owners, but
> someday when they get tired
>
> *From:* mailto:p...@believewireless.net 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 2:39 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CTI
>
> How many months do you think he'll stay there?
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:34 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Daniel White is now is now Vice President of Sales at Convergence
>> Technologies.
>> Congrats Daniel!
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] CTI

I hope ends up owning the joint.  Nothing against the current owners, but 
someday when they get tired

From: mailto:p...@believewireless.net 
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 2:39 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CTI

How many months do you think he'll stay there?

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:34 PM,  wrote:

  Daniel White is now is now Vice President of Sales at Convergence 
Technologies.
  Congrats Daniel!

Re: [AFMUG] OT heroin

2016-03-14 Thread Sam Lambie

Sixteen years ago I did my last hit of Meth. I was addicted for 3 years and
saw and did some shit that could only be in the movies. I left California
and came home to NM and cleaned up. Thankfully I have a family that was
loving and caring to nurse me back to health. ( I weighed 135lbs, now I am
170lbs 5'10")
Many of my past friends have been buried or sent to jail. Only a few have
made it out to the normal side of life. And yes, I was the one that decided
that enough was enough. Trying to get someone to get off of drugs is almost
an impossible venture, they have to realize it themselves and ask for help.
I have empathy for drug addicts, but not much sympathy or trust for them.

On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 10:46 AM, Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Remember I said this was personalmy ex wife's brother took her car
> while she slept and ran into a motorcycle officer stopped behind a truck
> two days ago. Officer in critical condition,  three others injured and her
> car caught fire.   He was on heroinshe had already reported car stolen
> and she was called in to offer statement.Many had tried to clean him up
> and my son helped get him into school for HVAC.   This lasted a month and
> he disappeared for a week.  Broke into garage and got keys from kitchen.
> We as a family are praying for officer and family.   I pray for all
> addicts
> On Mar 12, 2016 10:29 AM, "Bill Prince"  wrote:
>
>> Bringing back an old(er) topic here. This is a story from Frontline
>> regarding this very issue. Entitled *Chasing Heroin*. It's kind of long
>> (almost 2 hours), and parts of it were difficult to watch, but it delves
>> into how we got here, and how difficult it is for addicts to get out. It
>> explores a few of the many ways that different communities have tried
>> (emphasis on the word "tried") to get out of the apparent death spiral.
>>
>> It's clear that we have a long way to go.
>>
>> 
>> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/chasing-heroin/
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 3/2/2016 10:08 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>>
>> So another fella I used to know ODd today. He is the youngest of three
>> brothers, the oldest having croaked out from overdose a few years ago, the
>> middle is on the run after cutting an ankle bracelet for heroin charges and
>> now the mom whom I used to work with gets to put a second son in the dirt.
>> Somewhere between 10 and 20 of the folks I used to run around with are
>> feeding worms now, I quit taking actual count some time ago. I personally
>> don't care about dead junkies, while they're smacked out, they aren't
>> people, just shells of people, a danger to everyone around them I help the
>> few who can be salvaged, I'm selfish in that I won't expose my family, but
>> for example, last year I dropped off a backpack with food toiletries,
>> cigarettes and and blanket to an old friend who was homeless and in some
>> need, but that's as much as I can enable these guys. Is this new? Or am I
>> just hitting an age where the sins of our past begin to catch up?
>>
>> As an industry, in our scope, is there any reaching out we can do? We are
>> in people's homes regularly, is there a link to resources we can provide?
>> Is there any way we can be a part of the solution or are we just to
>> isolated of an industry to do anything?
>>
>> I know it's a pick your battles world, nobody can help everybody, but
>> this is madness, the destruction of so many lives and the collateral damage
>> from one drug is astounding.  Everybody, even homeless junkies are online.
>> Granted our base tends not to be the smack addled youth, but would things
>> like resource links on our websites, or outreach program info in our
>> welcome packs be overstepping our bounds. I'm curious on a personal level
>> because I have no other resource than my job.
>>
>>
>>
>>


-- 
-- 
*Sam Lambie*
Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598 Office
www.Taosnet.com

Re: [AFMUG] CTI

2016-03-14 Thread can...@believewireless.net

How many months do you think he'll stay there?

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:34 PM,  wrote:

> Daniel White is now is now Vice President of Sales at Convergence
> Technologies.
> Congrats Daniel!
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the minute.....Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters, says he may pay legal fees - LA Times

I followed the link to that Youtube video of Cambium hitting a radio with a 
baseball bat, and Youtube suggested this video to me.  It is a brilliant 
explanation of the techniques Trump uses to be a master persuader.  Worth 
watching no matter what you think of Trump as a presidential candidate:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LR6EA91zLo

Makes me want to buy some Trump steaks and wash them down with Trump water.


From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 3:16 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the minute.Trump takes 
a step toward supporting violence by supporters, says he may pay legal fees - 
LA Times

Yea. If he does somehow become president I wish as much success playing Putin 
as he has had with the media.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 3:01 PM That One Guy /sarcasm 
 wrote:

  "officials"

  On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 2:28 PM, Jaime Solorza  
wrote:

So Chicago officials are claiming law enforcement never discussed decision 
to cancel event at college of Friday and worse that Trumps campaign knew damn 
well that this part of town is diverse, Democratic and has not voted Republican 
since Teddy Roosevelt. 
Damn nice stuntif true...he could have had much better results in the 
Mexican capital..Los Angeles, Californiasas!!!   too easy


Jaime Solorza 
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390


On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 12:48 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
 wrote:

  Obama did touch me.

  On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 11:35 AM, D. Ryan Spott  wrote:

Thanks Obama: for Rory. 

?

:)

ryan


On 3/14/16 9:29 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

  I think maybe Rory has been reading WND again, and is talking about 
this guy who definitely appears not to still be in jail.  Well, he is in the 
2013 WND article.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakoula_Basseley_Nakoula
  Rory is a big Benghazi conspiracy theorist, judging from past posts.  
Oh, and “Obama”.
  From: Jaime Solorza 
  Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 11:14 AM
  To: Animal Farm 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the 
minute.Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters, says he 
may pay legal fees - LA Times

  Interesting choice of words, " Obama and Hillary had a guy who made a 
video arrested on a trumped up charge and he is still in jail." 


  What is this video or guy you are talking about?  

  Jaime Solorza 
  Wireless Systems Architect
  915-861-1390

  On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 10:06 AM, Rory Conaway 
 wrote:

This isn’t like he charged at some poor slob on the street, Trump 
is a presidential candidate.  If this was Hillary, the FBI would be holding him 
for several days and assigned 60 FBI agents to tear his life apart.  Obama and 
Hillary had a guy who made a video arrested on a trumped up charge and he is 
still in jail.



Rory



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 9:03 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the 
minute.Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters, says he 
may pay legal fees - LA Times



He posted bond.  He has a court date, I think today or tomorrow, 
pending charges disorderly conduct and inducing panic.  That’s the system.  
Geez, if you don’t know, you could Google it.



From: Rory Conaway 

Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 10:52 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the 
minute.Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters, says he 
may pay legal fees - LA Times



I’m still confused how thugs attack police in Chicago and St. Louis 
and try to attack Trump on stage and that’s Donald Trump’s fault.  One guy 
punches some protestor who shouldn’t have been there in the first place but 
that gets more press than hitting policemen and it’s Trump supporters who are 
blamed.  My question is why the guy charging Trump on the stage was let go 
after 1 day without a more thorough investigation?



Rory



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 8:47 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the 
minute.Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters, says he 
may pay legal fees - LA Times



He and his family have now been receiving death threats too.



On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 9:37 AM, Josh Reynolds 
 wrote:

Had not seen this... wtf

[AFMUG] CTI

Daniel White is now is now Vice President of Sales at Convergence 
Technologies.
Congrats Daniel!

Re: [AFMUG] this list


I knew that... ~blush~

On 03/14/2016 12:53 PM, Chris Wright wrote:


For the sake of argument, it’s “hear hear.”

:]

Chris Wright

Network Administrator

Velociter Wireless

209-838-1221 x115

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Bruce Robertson
*Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 12:48 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] this list

Here here!

On 03/14/2016 11:43 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com  wrote:

One thing I love about this list, is the diversity of opinion and
the ability to discuss religion and politics without any major
flame wars.

We can spar but when it gets too serous we back off for the most
part.  I think most of us respect the beliefs and opinions of
those that differ from us.

I love to argue.  I will even argue the opposite point of what I
believe just for the fun of argument.  And many times I argue
tongue in cheek statements.

Always meant to have fun, perhaps inform, never meant to browbeat
or proselytize or insult.  I hope y’all take it like that. 
Apologies to those that have make taken me too seriously.  I am

not ashamed of any of my beliefs, but I respect your right to have
yours too.  (even though they are wrong... Winking smile)

!DSPAM:2,56e716a6273094666317727!

Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the minute.....Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters, says he may pay legal fees - LA Times

Love to see a catch as can match...problem is Donald thinks WWE wrestling
is real and Putin is trained in several arts.  Still I would pay to watch...
On Mar 14, 2016 2:16 PM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:

> Yea. If he does somehow become president I wish as much success playing
> Putin as he has had with the media.
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 3:01 PM That One Guy /sarcasm <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "officials"
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 2:28 PM, Jaime Solorza > > wrote:
>>
>>> So Chicago officials are claiming law enforcement never discussed
>>> decision to cancel event at college of Friday and worse that Trumps
>>> campaign knew damn well that this part of town is diverse, Democratic and
>>> has not voted Republican since Teddy Roosevelt.
>>> Damn nice stuntif true...he could have had much better results in
>>> the Mexican capital..Los Angeles, Californiasas!!!   too easy
>>>
>>> Jaime Solorza
>>> Wireless Systems Architect
>>> 915-861-1390
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 12:48 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
>>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Obama did touch me.

 On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 11:35 AM, D. Ryan Spott 
 wrote:

> Thanks Obama: for Rory.
>
> ?
>
> :)
>
> ryan
>
> On 3/14/16 9:29 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> I think maybe Rory has been reading WND again, and is talking about
> this guy who definitely appears not to still be in jail.  Well, he is in
> the 2013 WND article.
>
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakoula_Basseley_Nakoula
>
> Rory is a big Benghazi conspiracy theorist, judging from past posts.
> Oh, and “Obama”.
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 11:14 AM
> *To:* Animal Farm 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the
> minute.Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters,
> says he may pay legal fees - LA Times
>
> Interesting choice of words, " Obama and Hillary had a guy who made a
> video arrested on a *trumped* up charge and he is still in jail."
>
> What is this video or guy you are talking about?
>
> Jaime Solorza
> Wireless Systems Architect
> 915-861-1390
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 10:06 AM, Rory Conaway <
> r...@triadwireless.net> wrote:
>
>> This isn’t like he charged at some poor slob on the street, Trump is
>> a presidential candidate.  If this was Hillary, the FBI would be holding
>> him for several days and assigned 60 FBI agents to tear his life apart.
>> Obama and Hillary had a guy who made a video arrested on a trumped up
>> charge and he is still in jail.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 9:03 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the
>> minute.Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters,
>> says he may pay legal fees - LA Times
>>
>>
>>
>> He posted bond.  He has a court date, I think today or tomorrow,
>> pending charges disorderly conduct and inducing panic.  That’s the 
>> system.
>> Geez, if you don’t know, you could Google it.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Rory Conaway 
>>
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 10:52 AM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the
>> minute.Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters,
>> says he may pay legal fees - LA Times
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m still confused how thugs attack police in Chicago and St. Louis
>> and try to attack Trump on stage and that’s Donald Trump’s fault.  One 
>> guy
>> punches some protestor who shouldn’t have been there in the first place 
>> but
>> that gets more press than hitting policemen and it’s Trump supporters who
>> are blamed.  My question is why the guy charging Trump on the stage was 
>> let
>> go after 1 day without a more thorough investigation?
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
>> ] *On Behalf Of *Jeremy
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 8:47 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the
>> minute.Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters,
>> says he may pay legal fees - LA Times
>>
>>
>>
>> He and his family have now been receiving death threats too.
>>
>>
>>
>> On

Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the minute.....Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters, says he may pay legal fees - LA Times

2016-03-14 Thread Carl Peterson


Kosovo 

> On Mar 13, 2016, at 5:57 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> 
> I don’t think the guy ever got the ring back.
>  
> One thing that really bugs me about Obama is that he had a really good chance 
> to support the Syrian rebels at the start of that mess (along with the whole 
> region Arab Spring movement) and he didn’t.  Will never understand that.  He 
> clearly isn’t against bombing.  Now Syria is in a similar mess as Iraq.  
>  
> After WWII it seems we intervene and it regularly goes to crap.  We don’t and 
> it goes to crap.  There must be a lesson in there somewhere. 
>  
> I guess Panama and Grenada are positive outcomes.  Where else? 
>  
> From: Lewis Bergman
> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 3:47 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the minute.Trump 
> takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters, says he may pay legal 
> fees - LA Times
>  
> Now that isn't funny at all. That really is crazy. I saw him on, I think, 
> face the nation this morning. He was non committal on condemning that old 
> white guy hitting that protestor who was being led out. Trump said he should 
> not have been flipping the bird, that is not justification. Yikes, he reminds 
> me of portion more than anyone.
> Remember when Putin stole that guys super bowl ring? Did he ever give that 
> back?
> 
> 
>> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 4:14 PM Jaime Solorza  
>> wrote:
>> http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-trump-campaign-protests-20160313-story.html

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

Ha.. gay ones...yep we had our share of problems with pedophile
prieststhey need to be punished and kicked out...
On Mar 14, 2016 2:20 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:

> It was also accepted (as it probably is in much of the world) that the
> church was involved in politics.  As was the military and the university.
> Just like families aspired to have one son (I assume the gay one) enter the
> priesthood, one the military, and one go to the university and become a
> doctor or lawyer.
>
> But the church, military, and universities each represented a certain
> constituency and were expected to be involved in politics.  As you might
> guess the military represented the right and the universities the left and
> the church represented, I don’t know, God?  Oh, and there were lots of
> strong men and demagogues populists.
>
> But the current Pope came from there and seems a nice fellow.
>
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 3:06 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan
>
>
> Hah
> On Mar 14, 2016 3:00 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
> wrote:
>
>> So I would call you Juan 2 3
>> Or Number Juan
>> On Mar 14, 2016 1:40 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:
>>
>>> But there should be a big gap between “what I believe” and “what the
>>> government should enforce on everyone else”.  There are many things other
>>> people do that I don’t like, but would not want the government to restrict.
>>>
>>> I remember how strange it seemed when as a kid my family moved to a
>>> Latin American (and officially Catholic) country that my middle name had to
>>> be changed to Juan because it was the law that all children had to have one
>>> name from the Bible.  Very minor example, but as an American, it seemed so
>>> strange that there was an official state religion enforced by law.  Thank
>>> goodness they didn’t believe in stoning heretics to death, or enslaving
>>> women for sex.
>>>
>>> I am also confused at how some people strongly hold beliefs that seem
>>> incompatible.  Like all life is sacred, but pro death penalty,  pro war.
>>> Or limited government, libertarian, keep the government out of my life, but
>>> the government should definitely crack down on my neighbor who is doing
>>> something I disapprove of but doesn’t really impinge on my rights.  How can
>>> black-or-white no-shades-of-grey people apparently pick and choose between
>>> black and white as it suits them, and not see any logical contradiction?
>>>
>>> This is how we get fiascos like the Terry Schiavo thing.  It is
>>> unfortunate that her parents, and her husband who was the legal guardian,
>>> could not agree.  But it became a very unseemly feeding frenzy for
>>> politicians.  Even if I had very strong personally held beliefs about the
>>> matter, I don’t see how my beliefs should have been imposed on them,
>>> especially by the government.  It’s bad enough when you have to make
>>> decisions like that for yourself or loved ones.  If we’re going to start
>>> making those decisions for others and using the government to enforce them,
>>> it had better be very, very clearcut that it’s something that we want the
>>> government involved in.  If it’s not so clear, then keep the government the
>>> hell out of our lives.  Even if our neighbors might be doing stuff that we
>>> disapprove of.
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Bruce Robertson 
>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 2:01 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan
>>>
>>> *I would give a woman a mulligan for the first few weeks. *
>>>
>>> To clarify my previous post, me too.   I am NOT in the camp that thinks
>>> abortion is okay at any time during the term of the pregnancy.
>>>
>>> On 03/14/2016 11:59 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>>
>>> I am not in that category.  I doubt most Catholics are either if you get
>>> them to level with  you.
>>> Contraception is 100% OK with me.
>>> I don't think a Catholic business should be forced to provide them to
>>> their employees.
>>>
>>> But again, when rules/dogma come from the wizened masters that claim to
>>> hear God, we forget that sometimes he mumbles and sometimes the wizened
>>> masters make up what they don't actually hear.  Centuries of the agendas
>>> and power plays of man have flavored religions.
>>>
>>> And if you truly want to get to minutia, I believe that life begins at
>>> the time of quickening.  When the spirit enters the body.  Sometime after
>>> conception.  Some time before birth.  I would give a woman a mulligan for
>>> the first few weeks.
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: Ken Hohhof
>>> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:52 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan
>>>
>>> I don't believe many people are actually pro-abortion.  And I don't
>>> think
>>> Josh characterized it is a "handy solution".
>>>
>>> What I fail to understand is people who don't want others to have access
>>> to
>>> birth

[AFMUG] Baseball bat vs PTP 650

2016-03-14 Thread Alex Marcham

Hi All,

We just did some unorthodox reliability testing with the PTP 650:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZJcoNHmgE0

The radio works fine but my bat has seen better days. Anyone given a radio a 
worse beating?

Thanks,

Alex Marcham
Engineering
alex.marc...@cambiumnetworks.com

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

It was also accepted (as it probably is in much of the world) that the church 
was involved in politics.  As was the military and the university.  Just like 
families aspired to have one son (I assume the gay one) enter the priesthood, 
one the military, and one go to the university and become a doctor or lawyer.

But the church, military, and universities each represented a certain 
constituency and were expected to be involved in politics.  As you might guess 
the military represented the right and the universities the left and the church 
represented, I don’t know, God?  Oh, and there were lots of strong men and 
demagogues populists.

But the current Pope came from there and seems a nice fellow.


From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 3:06 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

Hah

On Mar 14, 2016 3:00 PM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:

  So I would call you Juan 2 3
  Or Number Juan   

  On Mar 14, 2016 1:40 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:

But there should be a big gap between “what I believe” and “what the 
government should enforce on everyone else”.  There are many things other 
people do that I don’t like, but would not want the government to restrict.

I remember how strange it seemed when as a kid my family moved to a Latin 
American (and officially Catholic) country that my middle name had to be 
changed to Juan because it was the law that all children had to have one name 
from the Bible.  Very minor example, but as an American, it seemed so strange 
that there was an official state religion enforced by law.  Thank goodness they 
didn’t believe in stoning heretics to death, or enslaving women for sex.

I am also confused at how some people strongly hold beliefs that seem 
incompatible.  Like all life is sacred, but pro death penalty,  pro war.  Or 
limited government, libertarian, keep the government out of my life, but the 
government should definitely crack down on my neighbor who is doing something I 
disapprove of but doesn’t really impinge on my rights.  How can black-or-white 
no-shades-of-grey people apparently pick and choose between black and white as 
it suits them, and not see any logical contradiction?

This is how we get fiascos like the Terry Schiavo thing.  It is unfortunate 
that her parents, and her husband who was the legal guardian, could not agree.  
But it became a very unseemly feeding frenzy for politicians.  Even if I had 
very strong personally held beliefs about the matter, I don’t see how my 
beliefs should have been imposed on them, especially by the government.  It’s 
bad enough when you have to make decisions like that for yourself or loved 
ones.  If we’re going to start making those decisions for others and using the 
government to enforce them, it had better be very, very clearcut that it’s 
something that we want the government involved in.  If it’s not so clear, then 
keep the government the hell out of our lives.  Even if our neighbors might be 
doing stuff that we disapprove of.


From: Bruce Robertson 
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 2:01 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

I would give a woman a mulligan for the first few weeks. 

To clarify my previous post, me too.   I am NOT in the camp that thinks 
abortion is okay at any time during the term of the pregnancy.


On 03/14/2016 11:59 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  I am not in that category.  I doubt most Catholics are either if you get 
them to level with  you. 
  Contraception is 100% OK with me. 
  I don't think a Catholic business should be forced to provide them to 
their employees. 

  But again, when rules/dogma come from the wizened masters that claim to 
hear God, we forget that sometimes he mumbles and sometimes the wizened masters 
make up what they don't actually hear.  Centuries of the agendas and power 
plays of man have flavored religions. 

  And if you truly want to get to minutia, I believe that life begins at 
the time of quickening.  When the spirit enters the body.  Sometime after 
conception.  Some time before birth.  I would give a woman a mulligan for the 
first few weeks. 

  -Original Message- From: Ken Hohhof 
  Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:52 PM 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan 

  I don't believe many people are actually pro-abortion.  And I don't think 
  Josh characterized it is a "handy solution". 

  What I fail to understand is people who don't want others to have access 
to 
  birth control, like condoms or birth control pills or even "morning 
after" 
  pills.  You may believe life begins at conception and apply that in your 
own 
  life.  But if you don't want others to have abortions, the most effective 
  way to that goal is to accept that others might use contraception or 
family 
  planning methods that are not 100% per your religious

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan


Which Juan?

bp


On 3/14/2016 1:00 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:


So I would call you Juan 2 3
Or Number Juan

On Mar 14, 2016 1:40 PM, "Ken Hohhof" > wrote:


But there should be a big gap between “what I believe” and “what
the government should enforce on everyone else”.  There are many
things other people do that I don’t like, but would not want the
government to restrict.
I remember how strange it seemed when as a kid my family moved to
a Latin American (and officially Catholic) country that my middle
name had to be changed to Juan because it was the law that all
children had to have one name from the Bible.  Very minor example,
but as an American, it seemed so strange that there was an
official state religion enforced by law.  Thank goodness they
didn’t believe in stoning heretics to death, or enslaving women
for sex.
I am also confused at how some people strongly hold beliefs that
seem incompatible.  Like all life is sacred, but pro death
penalty,  pro war.  Or limited government, libertarian, keep the
government out of my life, but the government should definitely
crack down on my neighbor who is doing something I disapprove of
but doesn’t really impinge on my rights.  How can black-or-white
no-shades-of-grey people apparently pick and choose between black
and white as it suits them, and not see any logical contradiction?
This is how we get fiascos like the Terry Schiavo thing.  It is
unfortunate that her parents, and her husband who was the legal
guardian, could not agree. But it became a very unseemly feeding
frenzy for politicians.  Even if I had very strong personally held
beliefs about the matter, I don’t see how my beliefs should have
been imposed on them, especially by the government.  It’s bad
enough when you have to make decisions like that for yourself or
loved ones. If we’re going to start making those decisions for
others and using the government to enforce them, it had better be
very, very clearcut that it’s something that we want the
government involved in.  If it’s not so clear, then keep the
government the hell out of our lives.  Even if our neighbors might
be doing stuff that we disapprove of.
*From:* Bruce Robertson 
*Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 2:01 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan
/I would give a woman a mulligan for the first few weeks. /

To clarify my previous post, me too.   I am NOT in the camp that
thinks abortion is okay at any time during the term of the pregnancy.

On 03/14/2016 11:59 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com 
wrote:

I am not in that category.  I doubt most Catholics are either if
you get them to level with  you.
Contraception is 100% OK with me.
I don't think a Catholic business should be forced to provide
them to their employees.

But again, when rules/dogma come from the wizened masters that
claim to hear God, we forget that sometimes he mumbles and
sometimes the wizened masters make up what they don't actually
hear. Centuries of the agendas and power plays of man have
flavored religions.

And if you truly want to get to minutia, I believe that life
begins at the time of quickening.  When the spirit enters the
body.  Sometime after conception.  Some time before birth.  I
would give a woman a mulligan for the first few weeks.

-Original Message- From: Ken Hohhof
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:52 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

I don't believe many people are actually pro-abortion.  And I
don't think
Josh characterized it is a "handy solution".

What I fail to understand is people who don't want others to have
access to
birth control, like condoms or birth control pills or even
"morning after"
pills.  You may believe life begins at conception and apply that
in your own
life.  But if you don't want others to have abortions, the most
effective
way to that goal is to accept that others might use contraception
or family
planning methods that are not 100% per your religious beliefs.

I put the abstinence-only people in this same category.  That is
not a
realistic approach, if your goal is really to reduce the number of
abortions.  It sounds a lot more like if you're going to have
sex, you
deserve to get pregnant, you slut


-Original Message- From: ch...@wbmfg.com

Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 1:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

I used to believe like you.  During my teen years, having lots of
fun with
the opposite sex, I figured abortion

Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the minute.....Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters, says he may pay legal fees - LA Times

2016-03-14 Thread Lewis Bergman

Yea. If he does somehow become president I wish as much success playing
Putin as he has had with the media.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 3:01 PM That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> "officials"
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 2:28 PM, Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> So Chicago officials are claiming law enforcement never discussed
>> decision to cancel event at college of Friday and worse that Trumps
>> campaign knew damn well that this part of town is diverse, Democratic and
>> has not voted Republican since Teddy Roosevelt.
>> Damn nice stuntif true...he could have had much better results in the
>> Mexican capital..Los Angeles, Californiasas!!!   too easy
>>
>> Jaime Solorza
>> Wireless Systems Architect
>> 915-861-1390
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 12:48 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Obama did touch me.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 11:35 AM, D. Ryan Spott 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Thanks Obama: for Rory.

 ?

 :)

 ryan

 On 3/14/16 9:29 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

 I think maybe Rory has been reading WND again, and is talking about
 this guy who definitely appears not to still be in jail.  Well, he is in
 the 2013 WND article.

 
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakoula_Basseley_Nakoula

 Rory is a big Benghazi conspiracy theorist, judging from past posts.
 Oh, and “Obama”.

 *From:* Jaime Solorza 
 *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 11:14 AM
 *To:* Animal Farm 
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the
 minute.Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters,
 says he may pay legal fees - LA Times

 Interesting choice of words, " Obama and Hillary had a guy who made a
 video arrested on a *trumped* up charge and he is still in jail."

 What is this video or guy you are talking about?

 Jaime Solorza
 Wireless Systems Architect
 915-861-1390

 On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 10:06 AM, Rory Conaway <
 r...@triadwireless.net> wrote:

> This isn’t like he charged at some poor slob on the street, Trump is a
> presidential candidate.  If this was Hillary, the FBI would be holding him
> for several days and assigned 60 FBI agents to tear his life apart.  Obama
> and Hillary had a guy who made a video arrested on a trumped up charge and
> he is still in jail.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 9:03 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the
> minute.Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters,
> says he may pay legal fees - LA Times
>
>
>
> He posted bond.  He has a court date, I think today or tomorrow,
> pending charges disorderly conduct and inducing panic.  That’s the system.
> Geez, if you don’t know, you could Google it.
>
>
>
> *From:* Rory Conaway 
>
> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 10:52 AM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the
> minute.Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters,
> says he may pay legal fees - LA Times
>
>
>
> I’m still confused how thugs attack police in Chicago and St. Louis
> and try to attack Trump on stage and that’s Donald Trump’s fault.  One guy
> punches some protestor who shouldn’t have been there in the first place 
> but
> that gets more press than hitting policemen and it’s Trump supporters who
> are blamed.  My question is why the guy charging Trump on the stage was 
> let
> go after 1 day without a more thorough investigation?
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *Jeremy
> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 8:47 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the
> minute.Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters,
> says he may pay legal fees - LA Times
>
>
>
> He and his family have now been receiving death threats too.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 9:37 AM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
> Had not seen this... wtf
>
>
> http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/mar/13/donald-trump/donald-trump-wrongly-links-campaign-event-proteste/
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 10:30 AM, Jaime Solorza
>  wrote:
> > Yes

Re: [AFMUG] KP 3.65/5 Ghz Sectors

2016-03-14 Thread Ty Featherling

I complained about the addition of the cable glands because of the way it
was implemented. The glands are part of the removable part of the box, not
the stationary part. As a result to remove that cover on the box you had to
loosen the cable glands, push enough slack through to allot you to swivel
out the cover, and then let the cover hang with the cables going through
it. Hated it. I talked to Shane about it and he said an engineer threw that
feature in at the last minute and they have since removed them from the
design. I said just redesign so that the cable glands are stationary at the
bottom of the box and let the lid close around them. We'll see.

I am using the dual-5Ghzsectors and have had great results with them. I am
swapping out 120 that are full with these dual 60s using the same mounts
and getting more capacity.

-Ty



-Ty

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 2:14 PM, Jeremy  wrote:

> If you have used KP antennas before they have made some marked
> improvements over their old hardware designs.  The bracket is stronger, but
> also sticks out much further, removing the need to disconnect the sector to
> get the rear cover off.  If you are not using UBNT or EPMP, then the cover
> never needs to come off (except to connect the Type-N jumpers initially),
> and the 450 sectors can be mounted to the cover.  Having not done that, I
> am guessing it will be a fairly tight fit.  The grooves are the correct
> size this time, and Rockets fit without modifications (after a slip up in
> manufacturing and testing that we received on our last order).  The EPMP
> adapter also appears to work, although I haven't tried it personally.
>
> Also, the shielded boxes used to fill up with Wasps, but now they have
> cable glands leading into the AP case.  My only complaint with this new
> improvement was that the shielded connectors do not fit through the gland.
> It's a lesson that I should have learned long ago, but I didn'tso I had
> to cut the ends off, push them through, and then re-terminate them.
>
> We are only using the 2.4GHz/5GHz combos, and have been happy with their
> performance.  They are a huge antenna, but not as big as two antennas.
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications
> Inc  wrote:
>
>> Good afternoon,
>>
>>
>>
>> If you have deployed the KP Performance 3.65/5Ghz Dual Sectors, I am
>> curious how they are working for you.
>>
>> Also, if you are, did you have to modify any part of the equipment for
>> proper mounting/installations?
>>
>>
>>
>> To save tower space, I am considering deploying several but don’t won’t
>> to have performance problems.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Tyson Burris, President*
>> *Internet Communications Inc.*
>> *739 Commerce Dr.*
>> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>>
>> *317-738-0320 <317-738-0320> Daytime #*
>> *317-412-1540 <317-412-1540> Cell/Direct #*
>> *Online: **www.surfici.net* 
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: ICI]
>>
>> *What can ICI do for you?*
>>
>>
>> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones -
>> IP Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*
>>
>> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
>> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
>> *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
>> *dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
>> *unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
>> *prohibited.*
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

Hah
On Mar 14, 2016 3:00 PM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:

> So I would call you Juan 2 3
> Or Number Juan
> On Mar 14, 2016 1:40 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:
>
>> But there should be a big gap between “what I believe” and “what the
>> government should enforce on everyone else”.  There are many things other
>> people do that I don’t like, but would not want the government to restrict.
>>
>> I remember how strange it seemed when as a kid my family moved to a Latin
>> American (and officially Catholic) country that my middle name had to be
>> changed to Juan because it was the law that all children had to have one
>> name from the Bible.  Very minor example, but as an American, it seemed so
>> strange that there was an official state religion enforced by law.  Thank
>> goodness they didn’t believe in stoning heretics to death, or enslaving
>> women for sex.
>>
>> I am also confused at how some people strongly hold beliefs that seem
>> incompatible.  Like all life is sacred, but pro death penalty,  pro war.
>> Or limited government, libertarian, keep the government out of my life, but
>> the government should definitely crack down on my neighbor who is doing
>> something I disapprove of but doesn’t really impinge on my rights.  How can
>> black-or-white no-shades-of-grey people apparently pick and choose between
>> black and white as it suits them, and not see any logical contradiction?
>>
>> This is how we get fiascos like the Terry Schiavo thing.  It is
>> unfortunate that her parents, and her husband who was the legal guardian,
>> could not agree.  But it became a very unseemly feeding frenzy for
>> politicians.  Even if I had very strong personally held beliefs about the
>> matter, I don’t see how my beliefs should have been imposed on them,
>> especially by the government.  It’s bad enough when you have to make
>> decisions like that for yourself or loved ones.  If we’re going to start
>> making those decisions for others and using the government to enforce them,
>> it had better be very, very clearcut that it’s something that we want the
>> government involved in.  If it’s not so clear, then keep the government the
>> hell out of our lives.  Even if our neighbors might be doing stuff that we
>> disapprove of.
>>
>>
>> *From:* Bruce Robertson 
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 2:01 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan
>>
>> *I would give a woman a mulligan for the first few weeks. *
>>
>> To clarify my previous post, me too.   I am NOT in the camp that thinks
>> abortion is okay at any time during the term of the pregnancy.
>>
>> On 03/14/2016 11:59 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>
>> I am not in that category.  I doubt most Catholics are either if you get
>> them to level with  you.
>> Contraception is 100% OK with me.
>> I don't think a Catholic business should be forced to provide them to
>> their employees.
>>
>> But again, when rules/dogma come from the wizened masters that claim to
>> hear God, we forget that sometimes he mumbles and sometimes the wizened
>> masters make up what they don't actually hear.  Centuries of the agendas
>> and power plays of man have flavored religions.
>>
>> And if you truly want to get to minutia, I believe that life begins at
>> the time of quickening.  When the spirit enters the body.  Sometime after
>> conception.  Some time before birth.  I would give a woman a mulligan for
>> the first few weeks.
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Ken Hohhof
>> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:52 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan
>>
>> I don't believe many people are actually pro-abortion.  And I don't think
>> Josh characterized it is a "handy solution".
>>
>> What I fail to understand is people who don't want others to have access
>> to
>> birth control, like condoms or birth control pills or even "morning
>> after"
>> pills.  You may believe life begins at conception and apply that in your
>> own
>> life.  But if you don't want others to have abortions, the most effective
>> way to that goal is to accept that others might use contraception or
>> family
>> planning methods that are not 100% per your religious beliefs.
>>
>> I put the abstinence-only people in this same category.  That is not a
>> realistic approach, if your goal is really to reduce the number of
>> abortions.  It sounds a lot more like if you're going to have sex, you
>> deserve to get pregnant, you slut
>>
>>
>> -Original Message- From: ch...@wbmfg.com
>> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 1:34 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan
>>
>> I used to believe like you.  During my teen years, having lots of fun
>> with
>> the opposite sex, I figured abortion was a handy solution to a problem if
>> it
>> cropped up.
>>
>> Then I got married.  My wife got pregnant.  We went to the first
>> ultrasound.
>> I saw my daughter as the miniature human she was.  Stretching her arms
>> and
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

So I would call you Juan 2 3
Or Number Juan
On Mar 14, 2016 1:40 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:

> But there should be a big gap between “what I believe” and “what the
> government should enforce on everyone else”.  There are many things other
> people do that I don’t like, but would not want the government to restrict.
>
> I remember how strange it seemed when as a kid my family moved to a Latin
> American (and officially Catholic) country that my middle name had to be
> changed to Juan because it was the law that all children had to have one
> name from the Bible.  Very minor example, but as an American, it seemed so
> strange that there was an official state religion enforced by law.  Thank
> goodness they didn’t believe in stoning heretics to death, or enslaving
> women for sex.
>
> I am also confused at how some people strongly hold beliefs that seem
> incompatible.  Like all life is sacred, but pro death penalty,  pro war.
> Or limited government, libertarian, keep the government out of my life, but
> the government should definitely crack down on my neighbor who is doing
> something I disapprove of but doesn’t really impinge on my rights.  How can
> black-or-white no-shades-of-grey people apparently pick and choose between
> black and white as it suits them, and not see any logical contradiction?
>
> This is how we get fiascos like the Terry Schiavo thing.  It is
> unfortunate that her parents, and her husband who was the legal guardian,
> could not agree.  But it became a very unseemly feeding frenzy for
> politicians.  Even if I had very strong personally held beliefs about the
> matter, I don’t see how my beliefs should have been imposed on them,
> especially by the government.  It’s bad enough when you have to make
> decisions like that for yourself or loved ones.  If we’re going to start
> making those decisions for others and using the government to enforce them,
> it had better be very, very clearcut that it’s something that we want the
> government involved in.  If it’s not so clear, then keep the government the
> hell out of our lives.  Even if our neighbors might be doing stuff that we
> disapprove of.
>
>
> *From:* Bruce Robertson 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 2:01 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan
>
> *I would give a woman a mulligan for the first few weeks. *
>
> To clarify my previous post, me too.   I am NOT in the camp that thinks
> abortion is okay at any time during the term of the pregnancy.
>
> On 03/14/2016 11:59 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> I am not in that category.  I doubt most Catholics are either if you get
> them to level with  you.
> Contraception is 100% OK with me.
> I don't think a Catholic business should be forced to provide them to
> their employees.
>
> But again, when rules/dogma come from the wizened masters that claim to
> hear God, we forget that sometimes he mumbles and sometimes the wizened
> masters make up what they don't actually hear.  Centuries of the agendas
> and power plays of man have flavored religions.
>
> And if you truly want to get to minutia, I believe that life begins at the
> time of quickening.  When the spirit enters the body.  Sometime after
> conception.  Some time before birth.  I would give a woman a mulligan for
> the first few weeks.
>
> -Original Message- From: Ken Hohhof
> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:52 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan
>
> I don't believe many people are actually pro-abortion.  And I don't think
> Josh characterized it is a "handy solution".
>
> What I fail to understand is people who don't want others to have access
> to
> birth control, like condoms or birth control pills or even "morning after"
> pills.  You may believe life begins at conception and apply that in your
> own
> life.  But if you don't want others to have abortions, the most effective
> way to that goal is to accept that others might use contraception or
> family
> planning methods that are not 100% per your religious beliefs.
>
> I put the abstinence-only people in this same category.  That is not a
> realistic approach, if your goal is really to reduce the number of
> abortions.  It sounds a lot more like if you're going to have sex, you
> deserve to get pregnant, you slut
>
>
> -Original Message- From: ch...@wbmfg.com
> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 1:34 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan
>
> I used to believe like you.  During my teen years, having lots of fun with
> the opposite sex, I figured abortion was a handy solution to a problem if
> it
> cropped up.
>
> Then I got married.  My wife got pregnant.  We went to the first
> ultrasound.
> I saw my daughter as the miniature human she was.  Stretching her arms and
> sucking her tumb.  All as 16 week.
>
> Then I saw the light...
>
> -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:24 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw:

Re: [AFMUG] this list

Ha. Good one
On Mar 14, 2016 1:57 PM, "Paul McCall"  wrote:

> Oh, now you’re an audiologist ?
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chris Wright
> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 3:53 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] this list
>
>
>
> For the sake of argument, it’s “hear hear.”
>
>
>
> :]
>
>
>
> Chris Wright
>
> Network Administrator
>
> Velociter Wireless
>
> 209-838-1221 x115
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Bruce Robertson
> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 12:48 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] this list
>
>
>
> Here here!
>
> On 03/14/2016 11:43 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> One thing I love about this list, is the diversity of opinion and the
> ability to discuss religion and politics without any major flame wars.
>
>
>
> We can spar but when it gets too serous we back off for the most part.  I
> think most of us respect the beliefs and opinions of those that differ from
> us.
>
>
>
> I love to argue.  I will even argue the opposite point of what I believe
> just for the fun of argument.  And many times I argue tongue in cheek
> statements.
>
>
>
> Always meant to have fun, perhaps inform, never meant to browbeat or
> proselytize or insult.  I hope y’all take it like that.  Apologies to those
> that have make taken me too seriously.  I am not ashamed of any of my
> beliefs, but I respect your right to have yours too.  (even though they are
> wrong... [image: Winking smile])
>
> !DSPAM:2,56e7066b250792086514691!
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] this list

2016-03-14 Thread Paul McCall

Oh, now you’re an audiologist ?

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chris Wright
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 3:53 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] this list

For the sake of argument, it’s “hear hear.”

:]

Chris Wright
Network Administrator
Velociter Wireless
209-838-1221 x115

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Robertson
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:48 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] this list

Here here!
On 03/14/2016 11:43 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
One thing I love about this list, is the diversity of opinion and the ability 
to discuss religion and politics without any major flame wars.

We can spar but when it gets too serous we back off for the most part.  I think 
most of us respect the beliefs and opinions of those that differ from us.

I love to argue.  I will even argue the opposite point of what I believe just 
for the fun of argument.  And many times I argue tongue in cheek statements.

Always meant to have fun, perhaps inform, never meant to browbeat or 
proselytize or insult.  I hope y’all take it like that.  Apologies to those 
that have make taken me too seriously.  I am not ashamed of any of my beliefs, 
but I respect your right to have yours too.  (even though they are wrong... 
[Winking smile] )
!DSPAM:2,56e7066b250792086514691!

Re: [AFMUG] this list

2016-03-14 Thread Chris Wright

For the sake of argument, it’s “hear hear.”

:]

Chris Wright
Network Administrator
Velociter Wireless
209-838-1221 x115

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Robertson
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:48 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] this list

Here here!
On 03/14/2016 11:43 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
One thing I love about this list, is the diversity of opinion and the ability 
to discuss religion and politics without any major flame wars.

We can spar but when it gets too serous we back off for the most part.  I think 
most of us respect the beliefs and opinions of those that differ from us.

I love to argue.  I will even argue the opposite point of what I believe just 
for the fun of argument.  And many times I argue tongue in cheek statements.

Always meant to have fun, perhaps inform, never meant to browbeat or 
proselytize or insult.  I hope y’all take it like that.  Apologies to those 
that have make taken me too seriously.  I am not ashamed of any of my beliefs, 
but I respect your right to have yours too.  (even though they are wrong... 
[Winking smile] )
!DSPAM:2,56e7066b250792086514691!

Re: [AFMUG] this list


Here here!

On 03/14/2016 11:43 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
One thing I love about this list, is the diversity of opinion and the 
ability to discuss religion and politics without any major flame wars.
We can spar but when it gets too serous we back off for the most 
part.  I think most of us respect the beliefs and opinions of those 
that differ from us.
I love to argue.  I will even argue the opposite point of what I 
believe just for the fun of argument.  And many times I argue tongue 
in cheek statements.
Always meant to have fun, perhaps inform, never meant to browbeat or 
proselytize or insult.  I hope y’all take it like that.  Apologies to 
those that have make taken me too seriously.  I am not ashamed of any 
of my beliefs, but I respect your right to have yours too.  (even 
though they are wrong... Winking smile )
!DSPAM:2,56e7066b250792086514691!

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

*clap* *clap* *clap*

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 2:40 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> But there should be a big gap between “what I believe” and “what the
> government should enforce on everyone else”.  There are many things other
> people do that I don’t like, but would not want the government to restrict.
>
> I remember how strange it seemed when as a kid my family moved to a Latin
> American (and officially Catholic) country that my middle name had to be
> changed to Juan because it was the law that all children had to have one
> name from the Bible.  Very minor example, but as an American, it seemed so
> strange that there was an official state religion enforced by law.  Thank
> goodness they didn’t believe in stoning heretics to death, or enslaving
> women for sex.
>
> I am also confused at how some people strongly hold beliefs that seem
> incompatible.  Like all life is sacred, but pro death penalty,  pro war.  Or
> limited government, libertarian, keep the government out of my life, but the
> government should definitely crack down on my neighbor who is doing
> something I disapprove of but doesn’t really impinge on my rights.  How can
> black-or-white no-shades-of-grey people apparently pick and choose between
> black and white as it suits them, and not see any logical contradiction?
>
> This is how we get fiascos like the Terry Schiavo thing.  It is unfortunate
> that her parents, and her husband who was the legal guardian, could not
> agree.  But it became a very unseemly feeding frenzy for politicians.  Even
> if I had very strong personally held beliefs about the matter, I don’t see
> how my beliefs should have been imposed on them, especially by the
> government.  It’s bad enough when you have to make decisions like that for
> yourself or loved ones.  If we’re going to start making those decisions for
> others and using the government to enforce them, it had better be very, very
> clearcut that it’s something that we want the government involved in.  If
> it’s not so clear, then keep the government the hell out of our lives.  Even
> if our neighbors might be doing stuff that we disapprove of.
>
>
> From: Bruce Robertson
> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 2:01 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan
>
> I would give a woman a mulligan for the first few weeks.
>
> To clarify my previous post, me too.   I am NOT in the camp that thinks
> abortion is okay at any time during the term of the pregnancy.
>
> On 03/14/2016 11:59 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> I am not in that category.  I doubt most Catholics are either if you get
> them to level with  you.
> Contraception is 100% OK with me.
> I don't think a Catholic business should be forced to provide them to their
> employees.
>
> But again, when rules/dogma come from the wizened masters that claim to hear
> God, we forget that sometimes he mumbles and sometimes the wizened masters
> make up what they don't actually hear.  Centuries of the agendas and power
> plays of man have flavored religions.
>
> And if you truly want to get to minutia, I believe that life begins at the
> time of quickening.  When the spirit enters the body.  Sometime after
> conception.  Some time before birth.  I would give a woman a mulligan for
> the first few weeks.
>
> -Original Message- From: Ken Hohhof
> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:52 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan
>
> I don't believe many people are actually pro-abortion.  And I don't think
> Josh characterized it is a "handy solution".
>
> What I fail to understand is people who don't want others to have access to
> birth control, like condoms or birth control pills or even "morning after"
> pills.  You may believe life begins at conception and apply that in your own
> life.  But if you don't want others to have abortions, the most effective
> way to that goal is to accept that others might use contraception or family
> planning methods that are not 100% per your religious beliefs.
>
> I put the abstinence-only people in this same category.  That is not a
> realistic approach, if your goal is really to reduce the number of
> abortions.  It sounds a lot more like if you're going to have sex, you
> deserve to get pregnant, you slut
>
>
> -Original Message- From: ch...@wbmfg.com
> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 1:34 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan
>
> I used to believe like you.  During my teen years, having lots of fun with
> the opposite sex, I figured abortion was a handy solution to a problem if it
> cropped up.
>
> Then I got married.  My wife got pregnant.  We went to the first ultrasound.
> I saw my daughter as the miniature human she was.  Stretching her arms and
> sucking her tumb.  All as 16 week.
>
> Then I saw the light...
>
> -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:24 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan
>
> Sorry CORRECTION, **birth** not conception.

Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the minute.....Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters, says he may pay legal fees - LA Times

So Chicago officials are claiming law enforcement never discussed decision
to cancel event at college of Friday and worse that Trumps campaign knew
damn well that this part of town is diverse, Democratic and has not voted
Republican since Teddy Roosevelt.
Damn nice stuntif true...he could have had much better results in the
Mexican capital..Los Angeles, Californiasas!!!   too easy

Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 12:48 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Obama did touch me.
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 11:35 AM, D. Ryan Spott  wrote:
>
>> Thanks Obama: for Rory.
>>
>> ?
>>
>> :)
>>
>> ryan
>>
>> On 3/14/16 9:29 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>> I think maybe Rory has been reading WND again, and is talking about this
>> guy who definitely appears not to still be in jail.  Well, he is in the
>> 2013 WND article.
>>
>> 
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakoula_Basseley_Nakoula
>>
>> Rory is a big Benghazi conspiracy theorist, judging from past posts.  Oh,
>> and “Obama”.
>>
>> *From:* Jaime Solorza 
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 11:14 AM
>> *To:* Animal Farm 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the
>> minute.Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters,
>> says he may pay legal fees - LA Times
>>
>> Interesting choice of words, " Obama and Hillary had a guy who made a
>> video arrested on a *trumped* up charge and he is still in jail."
>>
>> What is this video or guy you are talking about?
>>
>> Jaime Solorza
>> Wireless Systems Architect
>> 915-861-1390
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 10:06 AM, Rory Conaway < 
>> r...@triadwireless.net> wrote:
>>
>>> This isn’t like he charged at some poor slob on the street, Trump is a
>>> presidential candidate.  If this was Hillary, the FBI would be holding him
>>> for several days and assigned 60 FBI agents to tear his life apart.  Obama
>>> and Hillary had a guy who made a video arrested on a trumped up charge and
>>> he is still in jail.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Rory
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 9:03 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the
>>> minute.Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters,
>>> says he may pay legal fees - LA Times
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> He posted bond.  He has a court date, I think today or tomorrow, pending
>>> charges disorderly conduct and inducing panic.  That’s the system.  Geez,
>>> if you don’t know, you could Google it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Rory Conaway 
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 10:52 AM
>>>
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the
>>> minute.Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters,
>>> says he may pay legal fees - LA Times
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I’m still confused how thugs attack police in Chicago and St. Louis and
>>> try to attack Trump on stage and that’s Donald Trump’s fault.  One guy
>>> punches some protestor who shouldn’t have been there in the first place but
>>> that gets more press than hitting policemen and it’s Trump supporters who
>>> are blamed.  My question is why the guy charging Trump on the stage was let
>>> go after 1 day without a more thorough investigation?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Rory
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
>>> ] *On Behalf Of *Jeremy
>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 8:47 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the
>>> minute.Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters,
>>> says he may pay legal fees - LA Times
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> He and his family have now been receiving death threats too.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 9:37 AM, Josh Reynolds 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Had not seen this... wtf
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/mar/13/donald-trump/donald-trump-wrongly-links-campaign-event-proteste/
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 10:30 AM, Jaime Solorza
>>>  wrote:
>>> > Yes   I had students at UTEP from Iran...most wanted the Shah out but
>>> didn't
>>> > want Khomeni or religious fanatics to get power... careful what you ask
>>> > for...you might get it...
>>> > I read a really good book by writer from Afghanistan about the Russian
>>> > occupation and the different Mujahadin that drove them out.  Lots of
>>> what is
>>> > covered about history of this  area with American and British presence
>>> > really opened my eyes to mistakes made long ago which affect us today
>>> We
>>> > meddled and disabled the status quo.   Don't get me  wrong crazy is
>>> crazy
>>> >

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

Belief sounds like a religiony thing... ;-)

-Original Message- 
From: Josh Reynolds

Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 1:31 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

The ones that do not believe immunizations are good for their children
are making decisions based on belief and not recurring evidence. They
have every right to make that decision. They are also not MADE to be
immunized in most situations, although many schools and school
districts will require it. It does not prevent one from sending kids
to private schools, or home schooling. Discussions with the school
board can often override this policy.

*Not* being immunized however can have a direct, measurable, negative
impact on population health, although it is worth noting that there
needs to be more studies done on immunizations and the human genome.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 2:22 PM,   wrote:

Look at those that believe immunizations are bad/good for their kids.
The arguments on both sides mirrors our religion vs science based fervor.

Take religion out of it.  People have strong opinions about many things.

And you will always be pissed off when the others win and they force their
beliefs on you.
If you do not set your clock ahead, you are going to hell.

-Original Message- From: ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 1:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

Law is based on religion.  The decalogue.
Legislation is based on law.
You will never be able to get free from religion.

-Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 1:15 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

Religious based legislation is any legislation based on religious
texts that impacts large bodies of people who are not given a choice.

Science based decision makings are those where theories have been
brought together, tested, tested again, hopefully tested again, and
then a reasonable expectation of correctness proven. Otherwise it's
just a guess and not science.

That said, this is not about climate change (which I have never stated
a position on one way or the other, so "my worship of climate change"
likely doesn't apply).

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 2:09 PM,   wrote:

Then I move... if you will allow me to.
Otherwise I am in a minor holocaust.

How do you identify religious based legislation?  If I think your worship
of
climate change (which I actually believe in) is a religion of secular
humanism, then to me that is religious based legislation.

In other words, if you get the wiff that my support may be based on
ancient
writings, or the vision I had between 2&4 in the morning, it must be
religion?

But if my support is based on a brain tumor that is inducing the visions
between 2&4 in the morning, it is based on science even thought I might
think it is God.  Which is it?

-Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 1:03 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

Hypothetical: I'm going to pose Shari Law on you, and you can't avoid it.

Now tell me why it's okay to support religious based legislation with
a straight face.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:27 PM,   wrote:

Take belief and religion out.

By YOU supporting legislation that affects the population as a whole you
are
also imposing beliefs.

Climate change, ANWR, too many large sodas in NYC.  Legislation imposes
the
beliefs of the many on the few.  Irrespective of the reason.  Religion,
insanity, tree hugging, hatred, all can be cited.

Why is it wrong to support religion based legislation but those cite the
religion of social or hard science gets to skate free?  If you worship
science as the standard of all truth, that is no different than me
listening
the the big boss whisper in my ear.

Personally I believe science is the lens through which we look for God.

From: Bruce Robertson
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:13 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

No, I want to go back to persecution.  It is persecution because you
would
be trying to carry out the wishes of the boss as you understand them. 
Not

necessarily as I see those wishes.  Therefore by supporting legislation
that
affects the population as a whole, you are imposing your beliefs upon 
me,

against my will.  I may have the equally valid belief that the boss
upstairs
wants us all to accept guidance, but ultimately make decisions for
ourselves
(and of course take responsibility for those decisions).  Someone with
such
beliefs would only support legislation that would make decisions such as
birth control, abortion, etc. completely up to each individual, her
conscience, and her relationship with the boss.

~sigh~ I swore I would never get involved in a political or religious
discussion.  My apologies.

On 03/13/2016 09:53 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Nevermind the persecution thing, I didn’t fully read your post properly.

From: Chuck McCown
Sent:

Re: [AFMUG] this list

2016-03-14 Thread Paul McCall

I have to say, I haven’t hit the DELETE key this much and this fast in months ☺

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 2:44 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] this list

One thing I love about this list, is the diversity of opinion and the ability 
to discuss religion and politics without any major flame wars.

We can spar but when it gets too serous we back off for the most part.  I think 
most of us respect the beliefs and opinions of those that differ from us.

I love to argue.  I will even argue the opposite point of what I believe just 
for the fun of argument.  And many times I argue tongue in cheek statements.

Always meant to have fun, perhaps inform, never meant to browbeat or 
proselytize or insult.  I hope y’all take it like that.  Apologies to those 
that have make taken me too seriously.  I am not ashamed of any of my beliefs, 
but I respect your right to have yours too.  (even though they are wrong... 
[Winking smile] )

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

The ones that do not believe immunizations are good for their children
are making decisions based on belief and not recurring evidence. They
have every right to make that decision. They are also not MADE to be
immunized in most situations, although many schools and school
districts will require it. It does not prevent one from sending kids
to private schools, or home schooling. Discussions with the school
board can often override this policy.

*Not* being immunized however can have a direct, measurable, negative
impact on population health, although it is worth noting that there
needs to be more studies done on immunizations and the human genome.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 2:22 PM,   wrote:
> Look at those that believe immunizations are bad/good for their kids.
> The arguments on both sides mirrors our religion vs science based fervor.
>
> Take religion out of it.  People have strong opinions about many things.
>
> And you will always be pissed off when the others win and they force their
> beliefs on you.
> If you do not set your clock ahead, you are going to hell.
>
> -Original Message- From: ch...@wbmfg.com
> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 1:19 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan
>
> Law is based on religion.  The decalogue.
> Legislation is based on law.
> You will never be able to get free from religion.
>
> -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 1:15 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan
>
> Religious based legislation is any legislation based on religious
> texts that impacts large bodies of people who are not given a choice.
>
> Science based decision makings are those where theories have been
> brought together, tested, tested again, hopefully tested again, and
> then a reasonable expectation of correctness proven. Otherwise it's
> just a guess and not science.
>
> That said, this is not about climate change (which I have never stated
> a position on one way or the other, so "my worship of climate change"
> likely doesn't apply).
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 2:09 PM,   wrote:
>>
>> Then I move... if you will allow me to.
>> Otherwise I am in a minor holocaust.
>>
>> How do you identify religious based legislation?  If I think your worship
>> of
>> climate change (which I actually believe in) is a religion of secular
>> humanism, then to me that is religious based legislation.
>>
>> In other words, if you get the wiff that my support may be based on
>> ancient
>> writings, or the vision I had between 2&4 in the morning, it must be
>> religion?
>>
>> But if my support is based on a brain tumor that is inducing the visions
>> between 2&4 in the morning, it is based on science even thought I might
>> think it is God.  Which is it?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
>> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 1:03 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan
>>
>> Hypothetical: I'm going to pose Shari Law on you, and you can't avoid it.
>>
>> Now tell me why it's okay to support religious based legislation with
>> a straight face.
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:27 PM,   wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Take belief and religion out.
>>>
>>> By YOU supporting legislation that affects the population as a whole you
>>> are
>>> also imposing beliefs.
>>>
>>> Climate change, ANWR, too many large sodas in NYC.  Legislation imposes
>>> the
>>> beliefs of the many on the few.  Irrespective of the reason.  Religion,
>>> insanity, tree hugging, hatred, all can be cited.
>>>
>>> Why is it wrong to support religion based legislation but those cite the
>>> religion of social or hard science gets to skate free?  If you worship
>>> science as the standard of all truth, that is no different than me
>>> listening
>>> the the big boss whisper in my ear.
>>>
>>> Personally I believe science is the lens through which we look for God.
>>>
>>> From: Bruce Robertson
>>> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:13 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan
>>>
>>> No, I want to go back to persecution.  It is persecution because you
>>> would
>>> be trying to carry out the wishes of the boss as you understand them. Not
>>> necessarily as I see those wishes.  Therefore by supporting legislation
>>> that
>>> affects the population as a whole, you are imposing your beliefs upon me,
>>> against my will.  I may have the equally valid belief that the boss
>>> upstairs
>>> wants us all to accept guidance, but ultimately make decisions for
>>> ourselves
>>> (and of course take responsibility for those decisions).  Someone with
>>> such
>>> beliefs would only support legislation that would make decisions such as
>>> birth control, abortion, etc. completely up to each individual, her
>>> conscience, and her relationship with the boss.
>>>
>>> ~sigh~ I swore I would never get involved in a political or religious
>>> discussion.  My apologies.
>>>
>>> On 03/13/2016 09:53 PM,

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

Forgot one important one:
http://www.alternet.org/story/156007/do_people_get_less_religious_when_societies_grow_more_egalitarian?page=entire

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 2:19 PM,   wrote:
> Law is based on religion.  The decalogue.
> Legislation is based on law.
> You will never be able to get free from religion.
>
> -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 1:15 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan
>
> Religious based legislation is any legislation based on religious
> texts that impacts large bodies of people who are not given a choice.
>
> Science based decision makings are those where theories have been
> brought together, tested, tested again, hopefully tested again, and
> then a reasonable expectation of correctness proven. Otherwise it's
> just a guess and not science.
>
> That said, this is not about climate change (which I have never stated
> a position on one way or the other, so "my worship of climate change"
> likely doesn't apply).
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 2:09 PM,   wrote:
>>
>> Then I move... if you will allow me to.
>> Otherwise I am in a minor holocaust.
>>
>> How do you identify religious based legislation?  If I think your worship
>> of
>> climate change (which I actually believe in) is a religion of secular
>> humanism, then to me that is religious based legislation.
>>
>> In other words, if you get the wiff that my support may be based on
>> ancient
>> writings, or the vision I had between 2&4 in the morning, it must be
>> religion?
>>
>> But if my support is based on a brain tumor that is inducing the visions
>> between 2&4 in the morning, it is based on science even thought I might
>> think it is God.  Which is it?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
>> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 1:03 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan
>>
>> Hypothetical: I'm going to pose Shari Law on you, and you can't avoid it.
>>
>> Now tell me why it's okay to support religious based legislation with
>> a straight face.
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:27 PM,   wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Take belief and religion out.
>>>
>>> By YOU supporting legislation that affects the population as a whole you
>>> are
>>> also imposing beliefs.
>>>
>>> Climate change, ANWR, too many large sodas in NYC.  Legislation imposes
>>> the
>>> beliefs of the many on the few.  Irrespective of the reason.  Religion,
>>> insanity, tree hugging, hatred, all can be cited.
>>>
>>> Why is it wrong to support religion based legislation but those cite the
>>> religion of social or hard science gets to skate free?  If you worship
>>> science as the standard of all truth, that is no different than me
>>> listening
>>> the the big boss whisper in my ear.
>>>
>>> Personally I believe science is the lens through which we look for God.
>>>
>>> From: Bruce Robertson
>>> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:13 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan
>>>
>>> No, I want to go back to persecution.  It is persecution because you
>>> would
>>> be trying to carry out the wishes of the boss as you understand them. Not
>>> necessarily as I see those wishes.  Therefore by supporting legislation
>>> that
>>> affects the population as a whole, you are imposing your beliefs upon me,
>>> against my will.  I may have the equally valid belief that the boss
>>> upstairs
>>> wants us all to accept guidance, but ultimately make decisions for
>>> ourselves
>>> (and of course take responsibility for those decisions).  Someone with
>>> such
>>> beliefs would only support legislation that would make decisions such as
>>> birth control, abortion, etc. completely up to each individual, her
>>> conscience, and her relationship with the boss.
>>>
>>> ~sigh~ I swore I would never get involved in a political or religious
>>> discussion.  My apologies.
>>>
>>> On 03/13/2016 09:53 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>>
>>> Nevermind the persecution thing, I didn’t fully read your post properly.
>>>
>>> From: Chuck McCown
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:50 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>>
>>> If I have a strong feeling that the guy in the sky that created all of us
>>> hates the murder of babies, yes I will try to stop that via legislation.
>>> How is that persecution?  Just trying to carry out the wishes of the
>>> boss.
>>> He has promised me a pretty nice apartment if I give it a good try.
>>>
>>> Persecution?
>>>
>>> From: Josh Reynolds
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:46 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>>
>>>
>>> So you wish to force your religious beliefs on others via legislation, in
>>> a
>>> country created to escape persecution from religion?
>>>
>>> On Mar 13, 2016 11:38 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:



 Here is why a churches need to be involved with reproductive care,
 contraception, or abortion.

 If you

Re: [AFMUG] OT Vivint Solar

2016-03-14 Thread Sterling Jacobson

Vivint or the Solar division of Vivint?

I don't think either needs this deal to survive.

I think there was debt involved in the purchase agreement from what I read.

But nothing Blackstone can't handle, I'm sure.

Vivint non-solar could probably care less.

They seem very distinctly to be structured as two separate entities, but I 
could be wrong.

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:48 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Vivint Solar

Was Vivint needing this deal to survive?

-Original Message-
From: Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:37 PM
To: 'af@afmug.com'
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Vivint Solar

Oops!

http://www.forbes.com/sites/antoinegara/2016/03/11/sunedisons-cfo-departs-amid-accounting-review-and-broken-deal-to-focus-on-yieldcos/#2a390b404d22


Looks like shady accounting and lost deals took out SunEdison and scuttled the 
Vivint deal.

Sucks for my friends at Vivint Solar, but in the end probably much better off 
not having gone through with it.

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

Funny thing is, if you compare most of the world's religions, they agree 
on maybe 80% or more of everything. The problem is, we get hung up on 
that pesky 20% (or whatever it is).

bp

On 3/14/2016 12:03 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Not all religions ... but some do.  Slowly.
*From:* Bill Prince 
*Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 1:01 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan
That's the beauty of science. It's willing to change its mind when 
presented new data. Religion can't do that.

bp

On 3/14/2016 11:54 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Funny, my religion only believes in one single thing:
“The Truth”
Science is constantly changing.  Now you are supposed to feed your 
little babies peanuts, eggs, cows milk etc.
Now we discover we were actually harming our kids by doing so.  
Science.  True until it isn’t.
But I do believe science and religion are just opposing sides of the 
same elephant.

Some claim better eyesight.
*From:* Jeremy 
*Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 12:49 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan
Science is true whether or not you believe in it.
On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 12:34 PM, > wrote:

I used to believe like you.  During my teen years, having lots of
fun with the opposite sex, I figured abortion was a handy
solution to a problem if it cropped up.

Then I got married.  My wife got pregnant.  We went to the first
ultrasound.
I saw my daughter as the miniature human she was.  Stretching her
arms and sucking her tumb.  All as 16 week.

Then I saw the light...

-Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

Sorry CORRECTION, **birth** not conception.

I'm feeling groggy from the time shift, and have not had enough
coffee.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:22 PM, Josh Reynolds
> wrote:

Upon natural or medically induced conception. Until then it is an
organism that receives sustenance from the mother's body,
thus is part
of the mother - and her decision. You don't have to agree
with me, and
that's fine, but you shouldn't force legislation preventing
people
from making decisions about their bodies and their children.
That's
for them to decide, and they have to live with the choices
they make.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Cameron Crum
> wrote:

So at what age should state sanctioned murder be stopped,
or is all just up
to the individual and their "belief"?

On Mar 14, 2016 1:13 PM, "Bruce Robertson"
> wrote:

No, I want to go back to persecution.  It is
persecution because you would
be trying to carry out the wishes of the boss as you
understand them. Not
necessarily as I see those wishes. Therefore by
supporting legislation that
affects the population as a whole, you are imposing
your beliefs upon me,
against my will.  I may have the equally valid belief
that the boss upstairs
wants us all to accept guidance, but ultimately make
decisions for ourselves
(and of course take responsibility for those
decisions).  Someone with such
beliefs would only support legislation that would
make decisions such as
birth control, abortion, etc. completely up to each
individual, her
conscience, and her relationship with the boss.

~sigh~ I swore I would never get involved in a
political or religious
discussion.  My apologies.

On 03/13/2016 09:53 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Nevermind the persecution thing, I didn’t fully read
your post properly.

From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

If I have a strong feeling that the guy in the sky
that created all of us
hates the murder of babies, yes I will try to stop
that via legislation.
How is that persecution?  Just trying to carry out
the wishes of the boss.
He has promised me a pretty nice apartment if I give

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

Law is based on religion.  The decalogue.
Legislation is based on law.
You will never be able to get free from religion.

-Original Message- 
From: Josh Reynolds

Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 1:15 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

Religious based legislation is any legislation based on religious
texts that impacts large bodies of people who are not given a choice.

Science based decision makings are those where theories have been
brought together, tested, tested again, hopefully tested again, and
then a reasonable expectation of correctness proven. Otherwise it's
just a guess and not science.

That said, this is not about climate change (which I have never stated
a position on one way or the other, so "my worship of climate change"
likely doesn't apply).

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 2:09 PM,   wrote:

Then I move... if you will allow me to.
Otherwise I am in a minor holocaust.

How do you identify religious based legislation?  If I think your worship 
of

climate change (which I actually believe in) is a religion of secular
humanism, then to me that is religious based legislation.

In other words, if you get the wiff that my support may be based on 
ancient

writings, or the vision I had between 2&4 in the morning, it must be
religion?

But if my support is based on a brain tumor that is inducing the visions
between 2&4 in the morning, it is based on science even thought I might
think it is God.  Which is it?

-Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 1:03 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

Hypothetical: I'm going to pose Shari Law on you, and you can't avoid it.

Now tell me why it's okay to support religious based legislation with
a straight face.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:27 PM,   wrote:

Take belief and religion out.

By YOU supporting legislation that affects the population as a whole you
are
also imposing beliefs.

Climate change, ANWR, too many large sodas in NYC.  Legislation imposes
the
beliefs of the many on the few.  Irrespective of the reason.  Religion,
insanity, tree hugging, hatred, all can be cited.

Why is it wrong to support religion based legislation but those cite the
religion of social or hard science gets to skate free?  If you worship
science as the standard of all truth, that is no different than me
listening
the the big boss whisper in my ear.

Personally I believe science is the lens through which we look for God.

From: Bruce Robertson
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:13 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

No, I want to go back to persecution.  It is persecution because you 
would

be trying to carry out the wishes of the boss as you understand them. Not
necessarily as I see those wishes.  Therefore by supporting legislation
that
affects the population as a whole, you are imposing your beliefs upon me,
against my will.  I may have the equally valid belief that the boss
upstairs
wants us all to accept guidance, but ultimately make decisions for
ourselves
(and of course take responsibility for those decisions).  Someone with
such
beliefs would only support legislation that would make decisions such as
birth control, abortion, etc. completely up to each individual, her
conscience, and her relationship with the boss.

~sigh~ I swore I would never get involved in a political or religious
discussion.  My apologies.

On 03/13/2016 09:53 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Nevermind the persecution thing, I didn’t fully read your post properly.

From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

If I have a strong feeling that the guy in the sky that created all of us
hates the murder of babies, yes I will try to stop that via legislation.
How is that persecution?  Just trying to carry out the wishes of the 
boss.

He has promised me a pretty nice apartment if I give it a good try.

Persecution?

From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

So you wish to force your religious beliefs on others via legislation, in
a
country created to escape persecution from religion?

On Mar 13, 2016 11:38 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

Here is why a churches need to be involved with reproductive care,
contraception, or abortion.

If you believe there is a God, Creator, Savior etc.
>Then if you believe that entity cares about these things (listed 
>above).

>>Then if you believe that the mind of that entity has communicated its
>> wishes with man.
>>>Then if you believe that those wishes are contained in doctrine of
>>> churches or bodies of scripture.
Then the church and its doctrine trumps all laws of man.
The church needs to be involved in all facets of life.  If you believe
the
above.

You can claim to be agnostic or atheistic but a smart person should 
hedge
their bets against actually not knowing that they are totally right 
about

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

I used condoms in my glory days and my second girlfriend was on the
pillI don't believe in the abstinence because people are ruled by
passion of moment and not reason...and the monthly cycle method is hit and
miss.   I might fall into what many call cafeteria Catholicism...Yes
according to our rules I sinned back then but I am glad with have a
repentance mechanism in placeunlike Jewish folks who repent once a
year, we do it several times a year...so they pay wholesale, we pay
retail!!  Sas.

Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 12:59 PM,  wrote:

> I am not in that category.  I doubt most Catholics are either if you get
> them to level with  you.
> Contraception is 100% OK with me.
> I don't think a Catholic business should be forced to provide them to
> their employees.
>
> But again, when rules/dogma come from the wizened masters that claim to
> hear God, we forget that sometimes he mumbles and sometimes the wizened
> masters make up what they don't actually hear.  Centuries of the agendas
> and power plays of man have flavored religions.
>
> And if you truly want to get to minutia, I believe that life begins at the
> time of quickening.  When the spirit enters the body.  Sometime after
> conception.  Some time before birth.  I would give a woman a mulligan for
> the first few weeks.
>
> -Original Message- From: Ken Hohhof
> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:52 PM
>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan
>
> I don't believe many people are actually pro-abortion.  And I don't think
> Josh characterized it is a "handy solution".
>
> What I fail to understand is people who don't want others to have access to
> birth control, like condoms or birth control pills or even "morning after"
> pills.  You may believe life begins at conception and apply that in your
> own
> life.  But if you don't want others to have abortions, the most effective
> way to that goal is to accept that others might use contraception or family
> planning methods that are not 100% per your religious beliefs.
>
> I put the abstinence-only people in this same category.  That is not a
> realistic approach, if your goal is really to reduce the number of
> abortions.  It sounds a lot more like if you're going to have sex, you
> deserve to get pregnant, you slut
>
>
> -Original Message- From: ch...@wbmfg.com
> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 1:34 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan
>
> I used to believe like you.  During my teen years, having lots of fun with
> the opposite sex, I figured abortion was a handy solution to a problem if
> it
> cropped up.
>
> Then I got married.  My wife got pregnant.  We went to the first
> ultrasound.
> I saw my daughter as the miniature human she was.  Stretching her arms and
> sucking her tumb.  All as 16 week.
>
> Then I saw the light...
>
> -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:24 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan
>
> Sorry CORRECTION, **birth** not conception.
>
> I'm feeling groggy from the time shift, and have not had enough coffee.
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:22 PM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
>> Upon natural or medically induced conception. Until then it is an
>> organism that receives sustenance from the mother's body, thus is part
>> of the mother - and her decision. You don't have to agree with me, and
>> that's fine, but you shouldn't force legislation preventing people
>> from making decisions about their bodies and their children. That's
>> for them to decide, and they have to live with the choices they make.
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Cameron Crum  wrote:
>>
>>> So at what age should state sanctioned murder be stopped, or is all just
>>> up
>>> to the individual and their "belief"?
>>>
>>> On Mar 14, 2016 1:13 PM, "Bruce Robertson"  wrote:
>>>

 No, I want to go back to persecution.  It is persecution because you
 would
 be trying to carry out the wishes of the boss as you understand them.
 Not
 necessarily as I see those wishes.  Therefore by supporting legislation
 that
 affects the population as a whole, you are imposing your beliefs upon
 me,
 against my will.  I may have the equally valid belief that the boss
 upstairs
 wants us all to accept guidance, but ultimately make decisions for
 ourselves
 (and of course take responsibility for those decisions).  Someone with
 such
 beliefs would only support legislation that would make decisions such as
 birth control, abortion, etc. completely up to each individual, her
 conscience, and her relationship with the boss.

 ~sigh~ I swore I would never get involved in a political or religious
 discussion.  My apologies.

 On 03/13/2016 09:53 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

 Nevermind the persecution thing, I

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

Religious based legislation is any legislation based on religious
texts that impacts large bodies of people who are not given a choice.

Science based decision makings are those where theories have been
brought together, tested, tested again, hopefully tested again, and
then a reasonable expectation of correctness proven. Otherwise it's
just a guess and not science.

That said, this is not about climate change (which I have never stated
a position on one way or the other, so "my worship of climate change"
likely doesn't apply).

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 2:09 PM,   wrote:
> Then I move... if you will allow me to.
> Otherwise I am in a minor holocaust.
>
> How do you identify religious based legislation?  If I think your worship of
> climate change (which I actually believe in) is a religion of secular
> humanism, then to me that is religious based legislation.
>
> In other words, if you get the wiff that my support may be based on ancient
> writings, or the vision I had between 2&4 in the morning, it must be
> religion?
>
> But if my support is based on a brain tumor that is inducing the visions
> between 2&4 in the morning, it is based on science even thought I might
> think it is God.  Which is it?
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 1:03 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan
>
> Hypothetical: I'm going to pose Shari Law on you, and you can't avoid it.
>
> Now tell me why it's okay to support religious based legislation with
> a straight face.
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:27 PM,   wrote:
>>
>> Take belief and religion out.
>>
>> By YOU supporting legislation that affects the population as a whole you
>> are
>> also imposing beliefs.
>>
>> Climate change, ANWR, too many large sodas in NYC.  Legislation imposes
>> the
>> beliefs of the many on the few.  Irrespective of the reason.  Religion,
>> insanity, tree hugging, hatred, all can be cited.
>>
>> Why is it wrong to support religion based legislation but those cite the
>> religion of social or hard science gets to skate free?  If you worship
>> science as the standard of all truth, that is no different than me
>> listening
>> the the big boss whisper in my ear.
>>
>> Personally I believe science is the lens through which we look for God.
>>
>> From: Bruce Robertson
>> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:13 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan
>>
>> No, I want to go back to persecution.  It is persecution because you would
>> be trying to carry out the wishes of the boss as you understand them. Not
>> necessarily as I see those wishes.  Therefore by supporting legislation
>> that
>> affects the population as a whole, you are imposing your beliefs upon me,
>> against my will.  I may have the equally valid belief that the boss
>> upstairs
>> wants us all to accept guidance, but ultimately make decisions for
>> ourselves
>> (and of course take responsibility for those decisions).  Someone with
>> such
>> beliefs would only support legislation that would make decisions such as
>> birth control, abortion, etc. completely up to each individual, her
>> conscience, and her relationship with the boss.
>>
>> ~sigh~ I swore I would never get involved in a political or religious
>> discussion.  My apologies.
>>
>> On 03/13/2016 09:53 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>> Nevermind the persecution thing, I didn’t fully read your post properly.
>>
>> From: Chuck McCown
>> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:50 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>
>> If I have a strong feeling that the guy in the sky that created all of us
>> hates the murder of babies, yes I will try to stop that via legislation.
>> How is that persecution?  Just trying to carry out the wishes of the boss.
>> He has promised me a pretty nice apartment if I give it a good try.
>>
>> Persecution?
>>
>> From: Josh Reynolds
>> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:46 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>
>>
>> So you wish to force your religious beliefs on others via legislation, in
>> a
>> country created to escape persecution from religion?
>>
>> On Mar 13, 2016 11:38 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Here is why a churches need to be involved with reproductive care,
>>> contraception, or abortion.
>>>
>>> If you believe there is a God, Creator, Savior etc.
>>> >Then if you believe that entity cares about these things (listed above).
>>> >>Then if you believe that the mind of that entity has communicated its
>>> >> wishes with man.
>>> >>>Then if you believe that those wishes are contained in doctrine of
>>> >>> churches or bodies of scripture.
>>> Then the church and its doctrine trumps all laws of man.
>>> The church needs to be involved in all facets of life.  If you believe
>>> the
>>> above.
>>>
>>> You can claim to be agnostic or atheistic but a smart person should hedge
>>> their bets against actually not knowing that

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

Yes, the quote is from Neil DeGrasse Tyson.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 12:53 PM, Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> he didn't  Neil Tyson DeGrasse say that on comedy central or somewhere?
>
> Jaime Solorza
> Wireless Systems Architect
> 915-861-1390
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 12:49 PM, Jeremy  wrote:
>
>> Science is true whether or not you believe in it.
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 12:34 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>> I used to believe like you.  During my teen years, having lots of fun
>>> with the opposite sex, I figured abortion was a handy solution to a problem
>>> if it cropped up.
>>>
>>> Then I got married.  My wife got pregnant.  We went to the first
>>> ultrasound.
>>> I saw my daughter as the miniature human she was.  Stretching her arms
>>> and sucking her tumb.  All as 16 week.
>>>
>>> Then I saw the light...
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
>>> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:24 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan
>>>
>>> Sorry CORRECTION, **birth** not conception.
>>>
>>> I'm feeling groggy from the time shift, and have not had enough coffee.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:22 PM, Josh Reynolds 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Upon natural or medically induced conception. Until then it is an
 organism that receives sustenance from the mother's body, thus is part
 of the mother - and her decision. You don't have to agree with me, and
 that's fine, but you shouldn't force legislation preventing people
 from making decisions about their bodies and their children. That's
 for them to decide, and they have to live with the choices they make.

 On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Cameron Crum 
 wrote:

> So at what age should state sanctioned murder be stopped, or is all
> just up
> to the individual and their "belief"?
>
> On Mar 14, 2016 1:13 PM, "Bruce Robertson"  wrote:
>
>>
>> No, I want to go back to persecution.  It is persecution because you
>> would
>> be trying to carry out the wishes of the boss as you understand them.
>> Not
>> necessarily as I see those wishes.  Therefore by supporting
>> legislation that
>> affects the population as a whole, you are imposing your beliefs upon
>> me,
>> against my will.  I may have the equally valid belief that the boss
>> upstairs
>> wants us all to accept guidance, but ultimately make decisions for
>> ourselves
>> (and of course take responsibility for those decisions).  Someone
>> with such
>> beliefs would only support legislation that would make decisions such
>> as
>> birth control, abortion, etc. completely up to each individual, her
>> conscience, and her relationship with the boss.
>>
>> ~sigh~ I swore I would never get involved in a political or religious
>> discussion.  My apologies.
>>
>> On 03/13/2016 09:53 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>> Nevermind the persecution thing, I didn’t fully read your post
>> properly.
>>
>> From: Chuck McCown
>> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:50 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>
>> If I have a strong feeling that the guy in the sky that created all
>> of us
>> hates the murder of babies, yes I will try to stop that via
>> legislation.
>> How is that persecution?  Just trying to carry out the wishes of the
>> boss.
>> He has promised me a pretty nice apartment if I give it a good try.
>>
>> Persecution?
>>
>> From: Josh Reynolds
>> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:46 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>
>>
>> So you wish to force your religious beliefs on others via
>> legislation, in
>> a country created to escape persecution from religion?
>>
>> On Mar 13, 2016 11:38 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Here is why a churches need to be involved with reproductive care,
>>> contraception, or abortion.
>>>
>>> If you believe there is a God, Creator, Savior etc.
>>> >Then if you believe that entity cares about these things (listed
>>> >above).
>>> >>Then if you believe that the mind of that entity has communicated
>>> its
>>> >> wishes with man.
>>> >>>Then if you believe that those wishes are contained in doctrine of
>>> >>> churches or bodies of scripture.
>>> Then the church and its doctrine trumps all laws of man.
>>> The church needs to be involved in all facets of life.  If you
>>> believe
>>> the above.
>>>
>>> You can claim to be agnostic or atheistic but a smart person should
>>> hedge
>>> their bets against actually not knowing that they are totally right
>>> about
>>> that.   Could be that every time you eat spaghetti you are
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT - Pi Day

Same thing here... and not impressive at all.  :-)  OTOH it turns out my 
wife can recite more digits than I can.  Of course, she's a math 
professor...


On 03/14/2016 10:34 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
When I was a kid, my dad taught me PI was 22/7 as a fact.  I later 
discovered not exactly... then I memorized a bunch of digits of it to 
“impress” girls.  Not sure how impressive it ever was...

*From:* Jaime Solorza 
*Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 11:17 AM
*To:* Animal Farm 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - Pi Day

Yep pizza places are running specials.  So is it still the Egyptians 
who discovered Pi or Ananuki or Indian mathematicians?


On Mar 14, 2016 11:09 AM, "Ken Hohhof" > wrote:


I didn't realize today was Pi Day 3/14/16 until I read this article:

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/western-digital-offers-growing-raspberry-pi-community-new-314gb-drive-300235202.html

!DSPAM:2,56e6f62d228711738644359!

Re: [AFMUG] KP 3.65/5 Ghz Sectors

If you have used KP antennas before they have made some marked improvements
over their old hardware designs.  The bracket is stronger, but also sticks
out much further, removing the need to disconnect the sector to get the
rear cover off.  If you are not using UBNT or EPMP, then the cover never
needs to come off (except to connect the Type-N jumpers initially), and the
450 sectors can be mounted to the cover.  Having not done that, I am
guessing it will be a fairly tight fit.  The grooves are the correct size
this time, and Rockets fit without modifications (after a slip up in
manufacturing and testing that we received on our last order).  The EPMP
adapter also appears to work, although I haven't tried it personally.

Also, the shielded boxes used to fill up with Wasps, but now they have
cable glands leading into the AP case.  My only complaint with this new
improvement was that the shielded connectors do not fit through the gland.
It's a lesson that I should have learned long ago, but I didn'tso I had
to cut the ends off, push them through, and then re-terminate them.

We are only using the 2.4GHz/5GHz combos, and have been happy with their
performance.  They are a huge antenna, but not as big as two antennas.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications
Inc  wrote:

> Good afternoon,
>
>
>
> If you have deployed the KP Performance 3.65/5Ghz Dual Sectors, I am
> curious how they are working for you.
>
> Also, if you are, did you have to modify any part of the equipment for
> proper mounting/installations?
>
>
>
> To save tower space, I am considering deploying several but don’t won’t to
> have performance problems.
>
>
>
> *Tyson Burris, President*
> *Internet Communications Inc.*
> *739 Commerce Dr.*
> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>
> *317-738-0320 <317-738-0320> Daytime #*
> *317-412-1540 <317-412-1540> Cell/Direct #*
> *Online: **www.surfici.net* 
>
>
>
> [image: ICI]
>
> *What can ICI do for you?*
>
>
> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP
> Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*
>
> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
> *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
> *dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
> *unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
> *prohibited.*
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

If I had to make the rules, I would probably say 6 weeks after conception for 
compassion even though I would not be comfortable with a wife or daughter 
electing that, at all but if she felt the need hopefully before the 3-4 week 
mark.  

Based on absolutely nothing other than my observations of ultrasounds at around 
the 14-16 week mark. 

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 1:03 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

I really hope youre talking about a few weeks after conception and not birth. 
But then again, some babies are ugly. My daughter was like a huge mouth with 
ears when she came out. I was kind of scared, and the though "kill it with 
fire" popped into my head. Im glad we didnt have a mulligan, because after a 
couple minutes she turned into the most beautiful thing I have ever seen, and 
she evovles into something more beautiful every day.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:59 PM,  wrote:

  I am not in that category.  I doubt most Catholics are either if you get them 
to level with  you.
  Contraception is 100% OK with me.
  I don't think a Catholic business should be forced to provide them to their 
employees.

  But again, when rules/dogma come from the wizened masters that claim to hear 
God, we forget that sometimes he mumbles and sometimes the wizened masters make 
up what they don't actually hear.  Centuries of the agendas and power plays of 
man have flavored religions.

  And if you truly want to get to minutia, I believe that life begins at the 
time of quickening.  When the spirit enters the body.  Sometime after 
conception.  Some time before birth.  I would give a woman a mulligan for the 
first few weeks.

  -Original Message- From: Ken Hohhof
  Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:52 PM 

  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

  I don't believe many people are actually pro-abortion.  And I don't think
  Josh characterized it is a "handy solution".

  What I fail to understand is people who don't want others to have access to
  birth control, like condoms or birth control pills or even "morning after"
  pills.  You may believe life begins at conception and apply that in your own
  life.  But if you don't want others to have abortions, the most effective
  way to that goal is to accept that others might use contraception or family
  planning methods that are not 100% per your religious beliefs.

  I put the abstinence-only people in this same category.  That is not a
  realistic approach, if your goal is really to reduce the number of
  abortions.  It sounds a lot more like if you're going to have sex, you
  deserve to get pregnant, you slut


  -Original Message- From: ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 1:34 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

  I used to believe like you.  During my teen years, having lots of fun with
  the opposite sex, I figured abortion was a handy solution to a problem if it
  cropped up.

  Then I got married.  My wife got pregnant.  We went to the first ultrasound.
  I saw my daughter as the miniature human she was.  Stretching her arms and
  sucking her tumb.  All as 16 week.

  Then I saw the light...

  -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
  Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:24 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

  Sorry CORRECTION, **birth** not conception.

  I'm feeling groggy from the time shift, and have not had enough coffee.

  On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:22 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

Upon natural or medically induced conception. Until then it is an
organism that receives sustenance from the mother's body, thus is part
of the mother - and her decision. You don't have to agree with me, and
that's fine, but you shouldn't force legislation preventing people
from making decisions about their bodies and their children. That's
for them to decide, and they have to live with the choices they make.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Cameron Crum  wrote:

  So at what age should state sanctioned murder be stopped, or is all just 
up
  to the individual and their "belief"?

  On Mar 14, 2016 1:13 PM, "Bruce Robertson"  wrote:


No, I want to go back to persecution.  It is persecution because you 
would
be trying to carry out the wishes of the boss as you understand them. 
Not
necessarily as I see those wishes.  Therefore by supporting legislation 
that
affects the population as a whole, you are imposing your beliefs upon 
me,
against my will.  I may have the equally valid belief that the boss 
upstairs
wants us all to accept guidance, but ultimately make decisions for 
ourselves
(and of course take responsibility for those decisions).  Someone with 
such
beliefs would only support legislation that would make decisions such as
birth control,

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

yes...we have an observatory checking out the skies and a Vatican article
came out recently which says if Aliens exist they should be treated as
brothers as creations of God.
Now that is a big step considering we condemned many for their discoveries
which went against the then churches teachings...Galileo for example...and
many others...
Heck some religions have almost UFO visitations stories
documentedEzekiel, Daniel, Enoch, the Hindu Vedas,etc,



Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:03 PM,  wrote:

> Not all religions ... but some do.  Slowly.
>
> *From:* Bill Prince 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 1:01 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan
>
> That's the beauty of science. It's willing to change its mind when
> presented new data. Religion can't do that.
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 3/14/2016 11:54 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> Funny, my religion only believes in one single thing:
> “The Truth”
>
> Science is constantly changing.  Now you are supposed to feed your little
> babies peanuts, eggs, cows milk etc.
> Now we discover we were actually harming our kids by doing so.  Science.
> True until it isn’t.
>
> But I do believe science and religion are just opposing sides of the same
> elephant.
> Some claim better eyesight.
>
> *From:* Jeremy 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 12:49 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan
>
> Science is true whether or not you believe in it.
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 12:34 PM,  wrote:
>
>> I used to believe like you.  During my teen years, having lots of fun
>> with the opposite sex, I figured abortion was a handy solution to a problem
>> if it cropped up.
>>
>> Then I got married.  My wife got pregnant.  We went to the first
>> ultrasound.
>> I saw my daughter as the miniature human she was.  Stretching her arms
>> and sucking her tumb.  All as 16 week.
>>
>> Then I saw the light...
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
>> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:24 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan
>>
>> Sorry CORRECTION, **birth** not conception.
>>
>> I'm feeling groggy from the time shift, and have not had enough coffee.
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:22 PM, Josh Reynolds 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Upon natural or medically induced conception. Until then it is an
>>> organism that receives sustenance from the mother's body, thus is part
>>> of the mother - and her decision. You don't have to agree with me, and
>>> that's fine, but you shouldn't force legislation preventing people
>>> from making decisions about their bodies and their children. That's
>>> for them to decide, and they have to live with the choices they make.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Cameron Crum  wrote:
>>>
 So at what age should state sanctioned murder be stopped, or is all
 just up
 to the individual and their "belief"?

 On Mar 14, 2016 1:13 PM, "Bruce Robertson"  wrote:

>
> No, I want to go back to persecution.  It is persecution because you
> would
> be trying to carry out the wishes of the boss as you understand them.
> Not
> necessarily as I see those wishes.  Therefore by supporting
> legislation that
> affects the population as a whole, you are imposing your beliefs upon
> me,
> against my will.  I may have the equally valid belief that the boss
> upstairs
> wants us all to accept guidance, but ultimately make decisions for
> ourselves
> (and of course take responsibility for those decisions).  Someone with
> such
> beliefs would only support legislation that would make decisions such
> as
> birth control, abortion, etc. completely up to each individual, her
> conscience, and her relationship with the boss.
>
> ~sigh~ I swore I would never get involved in a political or religious
> discussion.  My apologies.
>
> On 03/13/2016 09:53 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> Nevermind the persecution thing, I didn’t fully read your post
> properly.
>
> From: Chuck McCown
> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:50 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>
> If I have a strong feeling that the guy in the sky that created all of
> us
> hates the murder of babies, yes I will try to stop that via
> legislation.
> How is that persecution?  Just trying to carry out the wishes of the
> boss.
> He has promised me a pretty nice apartment if I give it a good try.
>
> Persecution?
>
> From: Josh Reynolds
> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:46 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>
>
> So you wish to force your religious beliefs on others via legislation,
> in
> a country

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

Then I move... if you will allow me to.
Otherwise I am in a minor holocaust.

How do you identify religious based legislation?  If I think your worship of 
climate change (which I actually believe in) is a religion of secular 
humanism, then to me that is religious based legislation.

In other words, if you get the wiff that my support may be based on ancient 
writings, or the vision I had between 2&4 in the morning, it must be 
religion?

But if my support is based on a brain tumor that is inducing the visions 
between 2&4 in the morning, it is based on science even thought I might 
think it is God.  Which is it?

-Original Message- 
From: Josh Reynolds

Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 1:03 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

Hypothetical: I'm going to pose Shari Law on you, and you can't avoid it.

Now tell me why it's okay to support religious based legislation with
a straight face.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:27 PM,   wrote:

Take belief and religion out.

By YOU supporting legislation that affects the population as a whole you 
are

also imposing beliefs.

Climate change, ANWR, too many large sodas in NYC.  Legislation imposes 
the

beliefs of the many on the few.  Irrespective of the reason.  Religion,
insanity, tree hugging, hatred, all can be cited.

Why is it wrong to support religion based legislation but those cite the
religion of social or hard science gets to skate free?  If you worship
science as the standard of all truth, that is no different than me 
listening

the the big boss whisper in my ear.

Personally I believe science is the lens through which we look for God.

From: Bruce Robertson
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:13 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

No, I want to go back to persecution.  It is persecution because you would
be trying to carry out the wishes of the boss as you understand them. 
Not
necessarily as I see those wishes.  Therefore by supporting legislation 
that

affects the population as a whole, you are imposing your beliefs upon me,
against my will.  I may have the equally valid belief that the boss 
upstairs
wants us all to accept guidance, but ultimately make decisions for 
ourselves
(and of course take responsibility for those decisions).  Someone with 
such

beliefs would only support legislation that would make decisions such as
birth control, abortion, etc. completely up to each individual, her
conscience, and her relationship with the boss.

~sigh~ I swore I would never get involved in a political or religious
discussion.  My apologies.

On 03/13/2016 09:53 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Nevermind the persecution thing, I didn’t fully read your post properly.

From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

If I have a strong feeling that the guy in the sky that created all of us
hates the murder of babies, yes I will try to stop that via legislation.
How is that persecution?  Just trying to carry out the wishes of the boss.
He has promised me a pretty nice apartment if I give it a good try.

Persecution?

From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

So you wish to force your religious beliefs on others via legislation, in 
a

country created to escape persecution from religion?

On Mar 13, 2016 11:38 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

Here is why a churches need to be involved with reproductive care,
contraception, or abortion.

If you believe there is a God, Creator, Savior etc.
>Then if you believe that entity cares about these things (listed above).
>>Then if you believe that the mind of that entity has communicated its
>> wishes with man.
>>>Then if you believe that those wishes are contained in doctrine of
>>> churches or bodies of scripture.
Then the church and its doctrine trumps all laws of man.
The church needs to be involved in all facets of life.  If you believe 
the

above.

You can claim to be agnostic or atheistic but a smart person should hedge
their bets against actually not knowing that they are totally right about
that.   Could be that every time you eat spaghetti you are committing a
mortal sin.  Could be.

For me and mine, I will take my particular flavor of Christianity and do
my thing, while you do your thing.
But if I have an opportunity to legislate away things I consider mortal
sins, I will try.

From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:54 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

Why does any church need to be involved with reproductive care,
contraception, or abortion?

Those are medical issues.

On Mar 13, 2016 6:48 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
wrote:

Actually, my belief is here in the deep south we have a church on every
corner.  Let the churches handle itthey are more than capable.

My tax dollars aren't needed for this. (or many other things)

- Original Message -
From:

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

I have 3 kids. 2 are my own, another is my step son.

My mother wanted to abort me when I was born but my father took off on
icy roads in a car with no insurance and prevented it.

My wife had an abortion, and that caused her to miscarry another later
down the road. She is a very strong woman, and still believes it's a
mother's or couple's choice. She still thinks about both often, but
knows that she made the right choice at the time. One of her brothers
ended up in "the system" for awhile, where he was never treated well
by any home he went to, and was even molested on two different
occasions at two different family homes.

In the end, her choice, not some fucking governments to tell her what
she can and can not do with her body or with her children. Is this
fucking China or America?

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:34 PM,   wrote:
> I used to believe like you.  During my teen years, having lots of fun with
> the opposite sex, I figured abortion was a handy solution to a problem if it
> cropped up.
>
> Then I got married.  My wife got pregnant.  We went to the first ultrasound.
> I saw my daughter as the miniature human she was.  Stretching her arms and
> sucking her tumb.  All as 16 week.
>
> Then I saw the light...
>
> -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:24 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan
>
> Sorry CORRECTION, **birth** not conception.
>
> I'm feeling groggy from the time shift, and have not had enough coffee.
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:22 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>>
>> Upon natural or medically induced conception. Until then it is an
>> organism that receives sustenance from the mother's body, thus is part
>> of the mother - and her decision. You don't have to agree with me, and
>> that's fine, but you shouldn't force legislation preventing people
>> from making decisions about their bodies and their children. That's
>> for them to decide, and they have to live with the choices they make.
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Cameron Crum  wrote:
>>>
>>> So at what age should state sanctioned murder be stopped, or is all just
>>> up
>>> to the individual and their "belief"?
>>>
>>> On Mar 14, 2016 1:13 PM, "Bruce Robertson"  wrote:

 No, I want to go back to persecution.  It is persecution because you
 would
 be trying to carry out the wishes of the boss as you understand them.
 Not
 necessarily as I see those wishes.  Therefore by supporting legislation
 that
 affects the population as a whole, you are imposing your beliefs upon
 me,
 against my will.  I may have the equally valid belief that the boss
 upstairs
 wants us all to accept guidance, but ultimately make decisions for
 ourselves
 (and of course take responsibility for those decisions).  Someone with
 such
 beliefs would only support legislation that would make decisions such as
 birth control, abortion, etc. completely up to each individual, her
 conscience, and her relationship with the boss.

 ~sigh~ I swore I would never get involved in a political or religious
 discussion.  My apologies.

 On 03/13/2016 09:53 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

 Nevermind the persecution thing, I didn’t fully read your post properly.

 From: Chuck McCown
 Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:50 PM
 To: af@afmug.com
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

 If I have a strong feeling that the guy in the sky that created all of
 us
 hates the murder of babies, yes I will try to stop that via legislation.
 How is that persecution?  Just trying to carry out the wishes of the
 boss.
 He has promised me a pretty nice apartment if I give it a good try.

 Persecution?

 From: Josh Reynolds
 Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:46 PM
 To: af@afmug.com
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

 So you wish to force your religious beliefs on others via legislation,
 in
 a country created to escape persecution from religion?

 On Mar 13, 2016 11:38 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
>
> Here is why a churches need to be involved with reproductive care,
> contraception, or abortion.
>
> If you believe there is a God, Creator, Savior etc.
> >Then if you believe that entity cares about these things (listed
> > >above).
> >>Then if you believe that the mind of that entity has communicated its
> >> wishes with man.
> >>>Then if you believe that those wishes are contained in doctrine of
> >>> churches or bodies of scripture.
> Then the church and its doctrine trumps all laws of man.
> The church needs to be involved in all facets of life.  If you believe
> the above.
>
> You can claim to be agnostic or atheistic but a smart person should
> hedge
> their bets against

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

Hypothetical: I'm going to pose Shari Law on you, and you can't avoid it.

Now tell me why it's okay to support religious based legislation with
a straight face.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:27 PM,   wrote:
> Take belief and religion out.
>
> By YOU supporting legislation that affects the population as a whole you are
> also imposing beliefs.
>
> Climate change, ANWR, too many large sodas in NYC.  Legislation imposes the
> beliefs of the many on the few.  Irrespective of the reason.  Religion,
> insanity, tree hugging, hatred, all can be cited.
>
> Why is it wrong to support religion based legislation but those cite the
> religion of social or hard science gets to skate free?  If you worship
> science as the standard of all truth, that is no different than me listening
> the the big boss whisper in my ear.
>
> Personally I believe science is the lens through which we look for God.
>
> From: Bruce Robertson
> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:13 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan
>
> No, I want to go back to persecution.  It is persecution because you would
> be trying to carry out the wishes of the boss as you understand them.   Not
> necessarily as I see those wishes.  Therefore by supporting legislation that
> affects the population as a whole, you are imposing your beliefs upon me,
> against my will.  I may have the equally valid belief that the boss upstairs
> wants us all to accept guidance, but ultimately make decisions for ourselves
> (and of course take responsibility for those decisions).  Someone with such
> beliefs would only support legislation that would make decisions such as
> birth control, abortion, etc. completely up to each individual, her
> conscience, and her relationship with the boss.
>
> ~sigh~ I swore I would never get involved in a political or religious
> discussion.  My apologies.
>
> On 03/13/2016 09:53 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> Nevermind the persecution thing, I didn’t fully read your post properly.
>
> From: Chuck McCown
> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:50 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>
> If I have a strong feeling that the guy in the sky that created all of us
> hates the murder of babies, yes I will try to stop that via legislation.
> How is that persecution?  Just trying to carry out the wishes of the boss.
> He has promised me a pretty nice apartment if I give it a good try.
>
> Persecution?
>
> From: Josh Reynolds
> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:46 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>
>
> So you wish to force your religious beliefs on others via legislation, in a
> country created to escape persecution from religion?
>
> On Mar 13, 2016 11:38 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>
>> Here is why a churches need to be involved with reproductive care,
>> contraception, or abortion.
>>
>> If you believe there is a God, Creator, Savior etc.
>> >Then if you believe that entity cares about these things (listed above).
>> >>Then if you believe that the mind of that entity has communicated its
>> >> wishes with man.
>> >>>Then if you believe that those wishes are contained in doctrine of
>> >>> churches or bodies of scripture.
>> Then the church and its doctrine trumps all laws of man.
>> The church needs to be involved in all facets of life.  If you believe the
>> above.
>>
>> You can claim to be agnostic or atheistic but a smart person should hedge
>> their bets against actually not knowing that they are totally right about
>> that.   Could be that every time you eat spaghetti you are committing a
>> mortal sin.  Could be.
>>
>> For me and mine, I will take my particular flavor of Christianity and do
>> my thing, while you do your thing.
>> But if I have an opportunity to legislate away things I consider mortal
>> sins, I will try.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Josh Reynolds
>> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:54 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>
>>
>> Why does any church need to be involved with reproductive care,
>> contraception, or abortion?
>>
>> Those are medical issues.
>>
>> On Mar 13, 2016 6:48 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Actually, my belief is here in the deep south we have a church on every
>>> corner.  Let the churches handle itthey are more than capable.
>>>
>>> My tax dollars aren't needed for this. (or many other things)
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: Ken Hohhof
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:18 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>>
>>> What many people who lose sleep over Planned Parenthood are actually
>>> upset about is they offer birth control.  Some people obsess about poor
>>> people having sex without the punishment of getting pregnant.  See this if
>>> you forgot:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_Limbaugh%E2%80%93Sandra_Fluke_controversy
>>>
>>> I don’t understand how you can be extremely anti-abortion yet also
>>> extremely

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

Not all religions ... but some do.  Slowly.  

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 1:01 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

That's the beauty of science. It's willing to change its mind when presented 
new data. Religion can't do that.

bp

On 3/14/2016 11:54 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  Funny, my religion only believes in one single thing:
  “The Truth”

  Science is constantly changing.  Now you are supposed to feed your little 
babies peanuts, eggs, cows milk etc.
  Now we discover we were actually harming our kids by doing so.  Science.  
True until it isn’t.  

  But I do believe science and religion are just opposing sides of the same 
elephant.  
  Some claim better eyesight.  

  From: Jeremy 
  Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:49 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

  Science is true whether or not you believe in it.

  On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 12:34 PM,  wrote:

I used to believe like you.  During my teen years, having lots of fun with 
the opposite sex, I figured abortion was a handy solution to a problem if it 
cropped up.

Then I got married.  My wife got pregnant.  We went to the first ultrasound.
I saw my daughter as the miniature human she was.  Stretching her arms and 
sucking her tumb.  All as 16 week.

Then I saw the light...

-Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

Sorry CORRECTION, **birth** not conception.

I'm feeling groggy from the time shift, and have not had enough coffee.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:22 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

  Upon natural or medically induced conception. Until then it is an
  organism that receives sustenance from the mother's body, thus is part
  of the mother - and her decision. You don't have to agree with me, and
  that's fine, but you shouldn't force legislation preventing people
  from making decisions about their bodies and their children. That's
  for them to decide, and they have to live with the choices they make.

  On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Cameron Crum  wrote:

So at what age should state sanctioned murder be stopped, or is all 
just up
to the individual and their "belief"?

On Mar 14, 2016 1:13 PM, "Bruce Robertson"  wrote:

  No, I want to go back to persecution.  It is persecution because you 
would
  be trying to carry out the wishes of the boss as you understand them. 
Not
  necessarily as I see those wishes.  Therefore by supporting 
legislation that
  affects the population as a whole, you are imposing your beliefs upon 
me,
  against my will.  I may have the equally valid belief that the boss 
upstairs
  wants us all to accept guidance, but ultimately make decisions for 
ourselves
  (and of course take responsibility for those decisions).  Someone 
with such
  beliefs would only support legislation that would make decisions such 
as
  birth control, abortion, etc. completely up to each individual, her
  conscience, and her relationship with the boss.

  ~sigh~ I swore I would never get involved in a political or religious
  discussion.  My apologies.

  On 03/13/2016 09:53 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  Nevermind the persecution thing, I didn’t fully read your post 
properly.

  From: Chuck McCown
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:50 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

  If I have a strong feeling that the guy in the sky that created all 
of us
  hates the murder of babies, yes I will try to stop that via 
legislation.
  How is that persecution?  Just trying to carry out the wishes of the 
boss.
  He has promised me a pretty nice apartment if I give it a good try.

  Persecution?

  From: Josh Reynolds
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:46 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

  So you wish to force your religious beliefs on others via 
legislation, in
  a country created to escape persecution from religion?

  On Mar 13, 2016 11:38 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

Here is why a churches need to be involved with reproductive care,
contraception, or abortion.

If you believe there is a God, Creator, Savior etc.
>Then if you believe that entity cares about these things (listed 
>above).
>>Then if you believe that the mind of that entity has communicated 
its
>> wishes with man.
>>>Then if you believe that those wishes are contained in doctrine 
of
>>> churches or bodies of scripture.
Then

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

+1.

On 03/14/2016 12:01 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
That's the beauty of science. It's willing to change its mind when 
presented new data. Religion can't do that.

bp

On 3/14/2016 11:54 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Funny, my religion only believes in one single thing:
“The Truth”
Science is constantly changing.  Now you are supposed to feed your 
little babies peanuts, eggs, cows milk etc.
Now we discover we were actually harming our kids by doing so.  
Science.  True until it isn’t.
But I do believe science and religion are just opposing sides of the 
same elephant.

Some claim better eyesight.
*From:* Jeremy 
*Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 12:49 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan
Science is true whether or not you believe in it.
On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 12:34 PM, > wrote:

I used to believe like you.  During my teen years, having lots of
fun with the opposite sex, I figured abortion was a handy
solution to a problem if it cropped up.

Then I got married.  My wife got pregnant.  We went to the first
ultrasound.
I saw my daughter as the miniature human she was. Stretching her
arms and sucking her tumb.  All as 16 week.

Then I saw the light...

-Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

Sorry CORRECTION, **birth** not conception.

I'm feeling groggy from the time shift, and have not had enough
coffee.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:22 PM, Josh Reynolds
> wrote:

Upon natural or medically induced conception. Until then it is an
organism that receives sustenance from the mother's body,
thus is part
of the mother - and her decision. You don't have to agree
with me, and
that's fine, but you shouldn't force legislation preventing
people
from making decisions about their bodies and their children.
That's
for them to decide, and they have to live with the choices
they make.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Cameron Crum
> wrote:

So at what age should state sanctioned murder be stopped,
or is all just up
to the individual and their "belief"?

On Mar 14, 2016 1:13 PM, "Bruce Robertson"
> wrote:

No, I want to go back to persecution.  It is
persecution because you would
be trying to carry out the wishes of the boss as you
understand them. Not
necessarily as I see those wishes. Therefore by
supporting legislation that
affects the population as a whole, you are imposing
your beliefs upon me,
against my will.  I may have the equally valid belief
that the boss upstairs
wants us all to accept guidance, but ultimately make
decisions for ourselves
(and of course take responsibility for those
decisions).  Someone with such
beliefs would only support legislation that would
make decisions such as
birth control, abortion, etc. completely up to each
individual, her
conscience, and her relationship with the boss.

~sigh~ I swore I would never get involved in a
political or religious
discussion.  My apologies.

On 03/13/2016 09:53 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Nevermind the persecution thing, I didn’t fully read
your post properly.

From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

If I have a strong feeling that the guy in the sky
that created all of us
hates the murder of babies, yes I will try to stop
that via legislation.
How is that persecution?  Just trying to carry out
the wishes of the boss.
He has promised me a pretty nice apartment if I give
it a good try.

Persecution?

From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

So you wish to force your religious beliefs on others
via legislation, in
a country created to escape persecution from

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan


/I would give a woman a mulligan for the first few weeks. /

To clarify my previous post, me too.   I am NOT in the camp that thinks 
abortion is okay at any time during the term of the pregnancy.


On 03/14/2016 11:59 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
I am not in that category.  I doubt most Catholics are either if you 
get them to level with  you.

Contraception is 100% OK with me.
I don't think a Catholic business should be forced to provide them to 
their employees.


But again, when rules/dogma come from the wizened masters that claim 
to hear God, we forget that sometimes he mumbles and sometimes the 
wizened masters make up what they don't actually hear.  Centuries of 
the agendas and power plays of man have flavored religions.


And if you truly want to get to minutia, I believe that life begins at 
the time of quickening.  When the spirit enters the body.  Sometime 
after conception.  Some time before birth.  I would give a woman a 
mulligan for the first few weeks.


-Original Message- From: Ken Hohhof
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:52 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

I don't believe many people are actually pro-abortion.  And I don't think
Josh characterized it is a "handy solution".

What I fail to understand is people who don't want others to have 
access to
birth control, like condoms or birth control pills or even "morning 
after"
pills.  You may believe life begins at conception and apply that in 
your own

life.  But if you don't want others to have abortions, the most effective
way to that goal is to accept that others might use contraception or 
family

planning methods that are not 100% per your religious beliefs.

I put the abstinence-only people in this same category.  That is not a
realistic approach, if your goal is really to reduce the number of
abortions.  It sounds a lot more like if you're going to have sex, you
deserve to get pregnant, you slut


-Original Message- From: ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 1:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

I used to believe like you.  During my teen years, having lots of fun 
with
the opposite sex, I figured abortion was a handy solution to a problem 
if it

cropped up.

Then I got married.  My wife got pregnant.  We went to the first 
ultrasound.
I saw my daughter as the miniature human she was.  Stretching her arms 
and

sucking her tumb.  All as 16 week.

Then I saw the light...

-Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

Sorry CORRECTION, **birth** not conception.

I'm feeling groggy from the time shift, and have not had enough coffee.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:22 PM, Josh Reynolds  
wrote:

Upon natural or medically induced conception. Until then it is an
organism that receives sustenance from the mother's body, thus is part
of the mother - and her decision. You don't have to agree with me, and
that's fine, but you shouldn't force legislation preventing people
from making decisions about their bodies and their children. That's
for them to decide, and they have to live with the choices they make.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Cameron Crum  wrote:
So at what age should state sanctioned murder be stopped, or is all 
just up

to the individual and their "belief"?

On Mar 14, 2016 1:13 PM, "Bruce Robertson"  wrote:


No, I want to go back to persecution.  It is persecution because 
you would
be trying to carry out the wishes of the boss as you understand 
them. Not
necessarily as I see those wishes.  Therefore by supporting 
legislation that
affects the population as a whole, you are imposing your beliefs 
upon me,
against my will.  I may have the equally valid belief that the boss 
upstairs
wants us all to accept guidance, but ultimately make decisions for 
ourselves
(and of course take responsibility for those decisions). Someone 
with such
beliefs would only support legislation that would make decisions 
such as

birth control, abortion, etc. completely up to each individual, her
conscience, and her relationship with the boss.

~sigh~ I swore I would never get involved in a political or religious
discussion.  My apologies.

On 03/13/2016 09:53 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Nevermind the persecution thing, I didn’t fully read your post 
properly.


From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

If I have a strong feeling that the guy in the sky that created all 
of us
hates the murder of babies, yes I will try to stop that via 
legislation.
How is that persecution?  Just trying to carry out the wishes of 
the boss.

He has promised me a pretty nice apartment if I give it a good try.

Persecution?

From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan


So you wish to force your religious beliefs on others via

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

That's the beauty of science. It's willing to change its mind when 
presented new data. Religion can't do that.

bp

On 3/14/2016 11:54 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Funny, my religion only believes in one single thing:
“The Truth”
Science is constantly changing.  Now you are supposed to feed your 
little babies peanuts, eggs, cows milk etc.
Now we discover we were actually harming our kids by doing so.  
Science.  True until it isn’t.
But I do believe science and religion are just opposing sides of the 
same elephant.

Some claim better eyesight.
*From:* Jeremy 
*Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 12:49 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan
Science is true whether or not you believe in it.
On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 12:34 PM, > wrote:

I used to believe like you.  During my teen years, having lots of
fun with the opposite sex, I figured abortion was a handy solution
to a problem if it cropped up.

Then I got married.  My wife got pregnant.  We went to the first
ultrasound.
I saw my daughter as the miniature human she was. Stretching her
arms and sucking her tumb.  All as 16 week.

Then I saw the light...

-Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

Sorry CORRECTION, **birth** not conception.

I'm feeling groggy from the time shift, and have not had enough
coffee.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:22 PM, Josh Reynolds
> wrote:

Upon natural or medically induced conception. Until then it is an
organism that receives sustenance from the mother's body, thus
is part
of the mother - and her decision. You don't have to agree with
me, and
that's fine, but you shouldn't force legislation preventing people
from making decisions about their bodies and their children.
That's
for them to decide, and they have to live with the choices
they make.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Cameron Crum
> wrote:

So at what age should state sanctioned murder be stopped,
or is all just up
to the individual and their "belief"?

On Mar 14, 2016 1:13 PM, "Bruce Robertson" > wrote:

No, I want to go back to persecution.  It is
persecution because you would
be trying to carry out the wishes of the boss as you
understand them. Not
necessarily as I see those wishes. Therefore by
supporting legislation that
affects the population as a whole, you are imposing
your beliefs upon me,
against my will.  I may have the equally valid belief
that the boss upstairs
wants us all to accept guidance, but ultimately make
decisions for ourselves
(and of course take responsibility for those
decisions).  Someone with such
beliefs would only support legislation that would make
decisions such as
birth control, abortion, etc. completely up to each
individual, her
conscience, and her relationship with the boss.

~sigh~ I swore I would never get involved in a
political or religious
discussion.  My apologies.

On 03/13/2016 09:53 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Nevermind the persecution thing, I didn’t fully read
your post properly.

From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

If I have a strong feeling that the guy in the sky
that created all of us
hates the murder of babies, yes I will try to stop
that via legislation.
How is that persecution?  Just trying to carry out the
wishes of the boss.
He has promised me a pretty nice apartment if I give
it a good try.

Persecution?

From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

So you wish to force your religious beliefs on others
via legislation, in
a country created to escape persecution from religion?

On Mar 13, 2016 11:38 PM, "Chuck

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

Yep. In fact there is a T-shirt to that effect. He may have been quoting 
someone else though.

   https://funnytimes.com/gift-items/tshirts/good-thing-t-shirt/

bp

On 3/14/2016 11:53 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:

he didn't  Neil Tyson DeGrasse say that on comedy central or somewhere?

Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 12:49 PM, Jeremy > wrote:

Science is true whether or not you believe in it.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 12:34 PM, > wrote:

I used to believe like you.  During my teen years, having lots
of fun with the opposite sex, I figured abortion was a handy
solution to a problem if it cropped up.

Then I got married.  My wife got pregnant.  We went to the
first ultrasound.
I saw my daughter as the miniature human she was. Stretching
her arms and sucking her tumb.  All as 16 week.

Then I saw the light...

-Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

Sorry CORRECTION, **birth** not conception.

I'm feeling groggy from the time shift, and have not had
enough coffee.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:22 PM, Josh Reynolds
> wrote:

Upon natural or medically induced conception. Until then
it is an
organism that receives sustenance from the mother's body,
thus is part
of the mother - and her decision. You don't have to agree
with me, and
that's fine, but you shouldn't force legislation
preventing people
from making decisions about their bodies and their
children. That's
for them to decide, and they have to live with the choices
they make.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Cameron Crum
> wrote:

So at what age should state sanctioned murder be
stopped, or is all just up
to the individual and their "belief"?

On Mar 14, 2016 1:13 PM, "Bruce Robertson"
> wrote:

No, I want to go back to persecution. It is
persecution because you would
be trying to carry out the wishes of the boss as
you understand them. Not
necessarily as I see those wishes. Therefore by
supporting legislation that
affects the population as a whole, you are
imposing your beliefs upon me,
against my will.  I may have the equally valid
belief that the boss upstairs
wants us all to accept guidance, but ultimately
make decisions for ourselves
(and of course take responsibility for those
decisions).  Someone with such
beliefs would only support legislation that would
make decisions such as
birth control, abortion, etc. completely up to
each individual, her
conscience, and her relationship with the boss.

~sigh~ I swore I would never get involved in a
political or religious
discussion.  My apologies.

On 03/13/2016 09:53 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Nevermind the persecution thing, I didn’t fully
read your post properly.

From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

If I have a strong feeling that the guy in the sky
that created all of us
hates the murder of babies, yes I will try to stop
that via legislation.
How is that persecution?  Just trying to carry out
the wishes of the boss.
He has promised me a pretty nice apartment if I
give it a good try.

Persecution?

From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

So you wish to force your religious beliefs on
others via legislation, in
a country created to escape

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

I am not in that category.  I doubt most Catholics are either if you get 
them to level with  you.

Contraception is 100% OK with me.
I don't think a Catholic business should be forced to provide them to their 
employees.


But again, when rules/dogma come from the wizened masters that claim to hear 
God, we forget that sometimes he mumbles and sometimes the wizened masters 
make up what they don't actually hear.  Centuries of the agendas and power 
plays of man have flavored religions.


And if you truly want to get to minutia, I believe that life begins at the 
time of quickening.  When the spirit enters the body.  Sometime after 
conception.  Some time before birth.  I would give a woman a mulligan for 
the first few weeks.


-Original Message- 
From: Ken Hohhof

Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:52 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

I don't believe many people are actually pro-abortion.  And I don't think
Josh characterized it is a "handy solution".

What I fail to understand is people who don't want others to have access to
birth control, like condoms or birth control pills or even "morning after"
pills.  You may believe life begins at conception and apply that in your own
life.  But if you don't want others to have abortions, the most effective
way to that goal is to accept that others might use contraception or family
planning methods that are not 100% per your religious beliefs.

I put the abstinence-only people in this same category.  That is not a
realistic approach, if your goal is really to reduce the number of
abortions.  It sounds a lot more like if you're going to have sex, you
deserve to get pregnant, you slut


-Original Message- 
From: ch...@wbmfg.com

Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 1:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

I used to believe like you.  During my teen years, having lots of fun with
the opposite sex, I figured abortion was a handy solution to a problem if it
cropped up.

Then I got married.  My wife got pregnant.  We went to the first ultrasound.
I saw my daughter as the miniature human she was.  Stretching her arms and
sucking her tumb.  All as 16 week.

Then I saw the light...

-Original Message- 
From: Josh Reynolds

Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

Sorry CORRECTION, **birth** not conception.

I'm feeling groggy from the time shift, and have not had enough coffee.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:22 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

Upon natural or medically induced conception. Until then it is an
organism that receives sustenance from the mother's body, thus is part
of the mother - and her decision. You don't have to agree with me, and
that's fine, but you shouldn't force legislation preventing people
from making decisions about their bodies and their children. That's
for them to decide, and they have to live with the choices they make.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Cameron Crum  wrote:
So at what age should state sanctioned murder be stopped, or is all just 
up

to the individual and their "belief"?

On Mar 14, 2016 1:13 PM, "Bruce Robertson"  wrote:


No, I want to go back to persecution.  It is persecution because you 
would
be trying to carry out the wishes of the boss as you understand them. 
Not
necessarily as I see those wishes.  Therefore by supporting legislation 
that
affects the population as a whole, you are imposing your beliefs upon 
me,
against my will.  I may have the equally valid belief that the boss 
upstairs
wants us all to accept guidance, but ultimately make decisions for 
ourselves
(and of course take responsibility for those decisions).  Someone with 
such

beliefs would only support legislation that would make decisions such as
birth control, abortion, etc. completely up to each individual, her
conscience, and her relationship with the boss.

~sigh~ I swore I would never get involved in a political or religious
discussion.  My apologies.

On 03/13/2016 09:53 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Nevermind the persecution thing, I didn’t fully read your post properly.

From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

If I have a strong feeling that the guy in the sky that created all of 
us

hates the murder of babies, yes I will try to stop that via legislation.
How is that persecution?  Just trying to carry out the wishes of the 
boss.

He has promised me a pretty nice apartment if I give it a good try.

Persecution?

From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan


So you wish to force your religious beliefs on others via legislation, 
in

a country created to escape persecution from religion?

On Mar 13, 2016 11:38 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:


Here is why a churches need to be involved with reproductive care,
contraception, or abortion.

If you believe there is

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

Exactly.  I have no problem with outlawing abortion, /as long as/ 
inexpensive and effective birth control and education is widely 
available, and preferably we have some sort of morning after pill 
(because no form of birth control is 100% effective), and with the usual 
proposed exceptions for rape, etc.

On 03/14/2016 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
I don't believe many people are actually pro-abortion.  And I don't 
think Josh characterized it is a "handy solution".

What I fail to understand is people who don't want others to have 
access to birth control, like condoms or birth control pills or even 
"morning after" pills.  You may believe life begins at conception and 
apply that in your own life.  But if you don't want others to have 
abortions, the most effective way to that goal is to accept that 
others might use contraception or family planning methods that are not 
100% per your religious beliefs.

I put the abstinence-only people in this same category.  That is not a 
realistic approach, if your goal is really to reduce the number of 
abortions.  It sounds a lot more like if you're going to have sex, you 
deserve to get pregnant, you slut

-Original Message- From: ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 1:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

I used to believe like you.  During my teen years, having lots of fun 
with
the opposite sex, I figured abortion was a handy solution to a problem 
if it

cropped up.

Then I got married.  My wife got pregnant.  We went to the first 
ultrasound.
I saw my daughter as the miniature human she was.  Stretching her arms 
and

sucking her tumb.  All as 16 week.

Then I saw the light...

-Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

Sorry CORRECTION, **birth** not conception.

I'm feeling groggy from the time shift, and have not had enough coffee.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:22 PM, Josh Reynolds  
wrote:

Upon natural or medically induced conception. Until then it is an
organism that receives sustenance from the mother's body, thus is part
of the mother - and her decision. You don't have to agree with me, and
that's fine, but you shouldn't force legislation preventing people
from making decisions about their bodies and their children. That's
for them to decide, and they have to live with the choices they make.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Cameron Crum  wrote:
So at what age should state sanctioned murder be stopped, or is all 
just up

to the individual and their "belief"?

On Mar 14, 2016 1:13 PM, "Bruce Robertson"  wrote:

No, I want to go back to persecution.  It is persecution because 
you would
be trying to carry out the wishes of the boss as you understand 
them. Not
necessarily as I see those wishes.  Therefore by supporting 
legislation that
affects the population as a whole, you are imposing your beliefs 
upon me,
against my will.  I may have the equally valid belief that the boss 
upstairs
wants us all to accept guidance, but ultimately make decisions for 
ourselves
(and of course take responsibility for those decisions). Someone 
with such
beliefs would only support legislation that would make decisions 
such as

birth control, abortion, etc. completely up to each individual, her
conscience, and her relationship with the boss.

~sigh~ I swore I would never get involved in a political or religious
discussion.  My apologies.

On 03/13/2016 09:53 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Nevermind the persecution thing, I didn’t fully read your post 
properly.

From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

If I have a strong feeling that the guy in the sky that created all 
of us
hates the murder of babies, yes I will try to stop that via 
legislation.
How is that persecution?  Just trying to carry out the wishes of 
the boss.

He has promised me a pretty nice apartment if I give it a good try.

Persecution?

From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

So you wish to force your religious beliefs on others via 
legislation, in

a country created to escape persecution from religion?

On Mar 13, 2016 11:38 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

Here is why a churches need to be involved with reproductive care,
contraception, or abortion.

If you believe there is a God, Creator, Savior etc.
>Then if you believe that entity cares about these things (listed 
>above).
>>Then if you believe that the mind of that entity has 
communicated its

>> wishes with man.
>>>Then if you believe that those wishes are contained in doctrine of
>>> churches or bodies of scripture.
Then the church and its doctrine trumps all laws of man.
The church needs to be involved in all facets of life.  If you 
believe

the above.

You can claim to be agnostic or atheistic but a smart

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

Funny, my religion only believes in one single thing:
“The Truth”

Science is constantly changing.  Now you are supposed to feed your little 
babies peanuts, eggs, cows milk etc.
Now we discover we were actually harming our kids by doing so.  Science.  True 
until it isn’t.  

But I do believe science and religion are just opposing sides of the same 
elephant.  
Some claim better eyesight.  

From: Jeremy 
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:49 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

Science is true whether or not you believe in it.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 12:34 PM,  wrote:

  I used to believe like you.  During my teen years, having lots of fun with 
the opposite sex, I figured abortion was a handy solution to a problem if it 
cropped up.

  Then I got married.  My wife got pregnant.  We went to the first ultrasound.
  I saw my daughter as the miniature human she was.  Stretching her arms and 
sucking her tumb.  All as 16 week.

  Then I saw the light...

  -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
  Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:24 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

  Sorry CORRECTION, **birth** not conception.

  I'm feeling groggy from the time shift, and have not had enough coffee.

  On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:22 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

Upon natural or medically induced conception. Until then it is an
organism that receives sustenance from the mother's body, thus is part
of the mother - and her decision. You don't have to agree with me, and
that's fine, but you shouldn't force legislation preventing people
from making decisions about their bodies and their children. That's
for them to decide, and they have to live with the choices they make.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Cameron Crum  wrote:

  So at what age should state sanctioned murder be stopped, or is all just 
up
  to the individual and their "belief"?

  On Mar 14, 2016 1:13 PM, "Bruce Robertson"  wrote:

No, I want to go back to persecution.  It is persecution because you 
would
be trying to carry out the wishes of the boss as you understand them. 
Not
necessarily as I see those wishes.  Therefore by supporting legislation 
that
affects the population as a whole, you are imposing your beliefs upon 
me,
against my will.  I may have the equally valid belief that the boss 
upstairs
wants us all to accept guidance, but ultimately make decisions for 
ourselves
(and of course take responsibility for those decisions).  Someone with 
such
beliefs would only support legislation that would make decisions such as
birth control, abortion, etc. completely up to each individual, her
conscience, and her relationship with the boss.

~sigh~ I swore I would never get involved in a political or religious
discussion.  My apologies.

On 03/13/2016 09:53 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Nevermind the persecution thing, I didn’t fully read your post properly.

From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

If I have a strong feeling that the guy in the sky that created all of 
us
hates the murder of babies, yes I will try to stop that via legislation.
How is that persecution?  Just trying to carry out the wishes of the 
boss.
He has promised me a pretty nice apartment if I give it a good try.

Persecution?

From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

So you wish to force your religious beliefs on others via legislation, 
in
a country created to escape persecution from religion?

On Mar 13, 2016 11:38 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  Here is why a churches need to be involved with reproductive care,
  contraception, or abortion.

  If you believe there is a God, Creator, Savior etc.
  >Then if you believe that entity cares about these things (listed 
>above).
  >>Then if you believe that the mind of that entity has communicated 
its
  >> wishes with man.
  >>>Then if you believe that those wishes are contained in doctrine of
  >>> churches or bodies of scripture.
  Then the church and its doctrine trumps all laws of man.
  The church needs to be involved in all facets of life.  If you believe
  the above.

  You can claim to be agnostic or atheistic but a smart person should 
hedge
  their bets against actually not knowing that they are totally right 
about
  that.   Could be that every time you eat spaghetti you are committing 
a
  mortal sin.  Could be.

  For me and mine, I will take my particular flavor

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan