Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
darrenyeats;317708 Wrote: Michael, You are absolutely right about SNR decreasing. The only thing I would add is that this factor is the only thing to worry about. Bits don't come into it. The reason is that by the time any bits are lost they are lost at the small end, and that is buried deep in the noise floor. There is no way to tell whether the bit was 1 or 0 just before it is lost, so you don't notice losing it. So lost bits are never the issue with an SB3 or TP. However, your point about SNR is the issue. A TP can play a decent range of volumes without the SNR dipping below 96db (the SNR of 16 bits). You don't need any more SNR than that to play red book in all its glory. IMO for red book on a TP a preamp will result in more distortion overall and at best divert funds from valuable areas to an unnecessary (in SQ terms) piece of equipment. So, you are completely right to wait on buying the pre until you have other sources that make it necessary...the only point I would make is that multiple sources is the _only_ reason you would invest in a pre playing red book on a TP. Darren Darren, Thanks for the info. It's good to know that my rationale on the issue has been solid. I will continue to await a turntable and Universal/SACD player before I spring for a Preamp. -Michae -- Grenamc Grenamc's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17965 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
Thanks a lot for the advice. This is one of my perplexed questions about high-end audio equipment: what exactly a pre-amp does other than source switching and volume control (assuming line level amplification is not needed in my system)? If I have a decent source equipment such as the Transporter or a good CD player with volume control, do I still need the pre-amp? -- vincentyan vincentyan's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17868 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
darrenyeats;317708 Wrote: A TP can play a decent range of volumes without the SNR dipping below 96db (the SNR of 16 bits). You don't need any more SNR than that to play red book in all its glory. IMO for red book on a TP a preamp will result in more distortion overall and at best divert funds from valuable areas to an unnecessary (in SQ terms) piece of equipment. So, you are completely right to wait on buying the pre until you have other sources that make it necessary...the only point I would make is that multiple sources is the _only_ reason you would invest in a pre playing red book on a TP. Darren Is there a volume level on the Transporter that corresponds to this 96db SNR? Not sure if my question is overly simplifying the issue. -- vantagesc vantagesc's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14464 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
The inhertent noise floor of any electronic component is around 120 db , ie round 21 bits so 24 bit SN ratios (144db) are rubbish. IE there is no hifi component that can give you a snr of 144db , 120db is prolly all thats achievable by even the best component. Ostensibly , if you really believe upsampling to 24 bits and attenuating the signal is not harmful to it , then the 96 db mark would be at 2/3rds full volume assuming the attenuation scaling is linear. (16/24) However do not believe that upsampling to 24 bits will allow you a 1/3rd attenuation with no harm to the signal. IE you are being told that -48db (6 db per bit) will be totally non destructive and only after that will you hear the effects of digital attenuation. If you beleive digital attn is totally non destructive , go run your Digital signal thru a 12/18 db Attenution and then run it back thru a 12/18db gain in the 24 bit processor and see if the signal you get is the same as the original.. The SB/TP is a sort of computer - these do have glitches and its pretty easy for it to send a 0dbfs signal to your amp - thats gonna do something to your speakers ! So either use a pre or inline attn. I dont really worry about it that much as my speakers are DSP actives and have protective circuitry for such an eventuality. -- Rodney_Gold Sb3/Z-sys RDP1/meridian DSP5500's TP/X-cans v3/Senns 650's TP/TACT 2.0/SCM 50a's TP/Meridian DSP5000's The nicest thing about smacking your head against the wall is...the feeling you get when you stop Rodney_Gold's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14618 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
Rodney_Gold wrote: The inhertent noise floor of any electronic component is around 120 db , ie round 21 bits so 24 bit SN ratios (144db) are rubbish. IE there is no hifi component that can give you a snr of 144db , 120db is prolly all thats achievable by even the best component. Perhaps with the best components with the best power on the best day. 100dB is a lot more realistic. The SB/TP is a sort of computer - these do have glitches and its pretty easy for it to send a 0dbfs signal to your amp I would not say pretty easy but the SB/TP are more than sort of a computer, they are computers. They are programmable devices. That is why there are occasional firmware upgrades. And as all computers, there is a chance that they will send WFO signal to downstream stuff. I've never had it happen in 5+ years and many different Slim devices, but the probability is not zero, so I agree that its not prudent to have a setup that will blow up amps, speakers, and the house when the occasional bug causes the 0dB signal (usually white noise) down the wires. -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
Frank, I came to this forum not long ago and enjoyed your writing very much. One question: have you tried to connect your modded TP to a power amplifier directly? Correct me if I am wrong: I don't have other source equipment, so I don't need a pre-amp with the TP, the TP's volume control is well built Vincent -- vincentyan vincentyan's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17868 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
tricka;285116 Wrote: H doesn't it matter more about synergy in components and personal listening tastes? I've found that you really can't say something is better or not, just that it suits your system as you like to hear it. I'm fascinated at the emotion this stirs up! Personally I thought the original post wasn't that ra ra - I read it and took it for what it is: a personal perspective. I have different amp's for different music - my favourite 6CLC Spud amp for colour eg female vocals, jazz - and a Bryston 100 SST for large scale orchestral. The Transporter (stock) sounds to my middle aged ears just fine with both - different but fine. Less is more eh?? I was the OP, so I appreciate that you took the post as it was intended. I think the Transporter is a great piece of gear, but I too was taken aback by the strength of the emotions this perspective generated. Pretty much cured me from posting on this forum. Anyway, thanks! -- HalleysComet HalleysComet's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14590 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
I have read that musicians use different acoustic guitars for different songs. Its still an acoustic guitar. I have read that some professional studio engineers use different speakers(monitors) for different songs. Its still speakers(monitors) -- eiret eiret's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11521 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
eiret;307320 Wrote: I have read that musicians use different acoustic guitars for different songs. Its still an acoustic guitar. I have read that some professional studio engineers use different speakers(monitors) for different songs. Its still speakers(monitors) Good point! I like different music played thru different systems myself. I designed and scratch-built a SE system for my bedroom, restored vintage 1950's tube stuff for my living room, and use modern solid state in my music room. Each gives a different presentation, none of which is invalid, I think. A lot of that is the different speakers (single driver vs. dynamic vs. planar) in the different systems. What is remarkable, I suppose, is that at least my feeble brain is convinced by the illusion of real music in each case. The Transporter certainly is an asset in any of these systems, but they seem to showcase different strengths in each context. And altho I've offended the gods by (horrors) modding it, and even worse throwing away perfectly good money fixin' something that don't need fixin' the result has been pleasing to my audiophile sensibilities. For me this is Fun! Back to truth vs. beauty. I don't know if modifying my Transporter has anything to do with objective truth if there is such a thing with recorded sound. I'm no believer that measurements can capture fidelity (even tho I make my living doing measurement). Music is such a complex time-domain phenomenon, that the vast majority of measurements used as standards of fidelity fall short of the mark. I don't know of anyone who has predictably reproduced real-life sonic holography. As for those who say that measurements prove a modded unit will be inferior to the original, I'm going to maintain that the measurements are flawed, even more than the (subjectively) experienced outcome. To quote Brian Beezely: A measurement can be a cardinal measurement that yields a value, such as total harmonic distortion. It may also be an ordinal measurement that yields an ordering (this amplifier sounds more distorted than that one). One is objective and the other subjective, but both are measurements. In principle, both can be made to any degree of repeatability by suitable experimental design. One value of a measurement, cardinal or ordinal, is that it defines what you're talking about. Once people agree on a measurement procedure, they can independently investigate something knowing they're all dealing with the same thing. In fact, for vague or ethereal phenomena, the measurement itself can serve as a definition. Without a good definition, communication about a phenomenon can be unreliable and difficult. Individuals may know exactly what they mean by an undefined term, but for others the meaning may be different. A clearly defined measurement procedure can prevent such misunderstanding. Definitions can change, and they can multiply. Measurement may reveal unexpected complexity. For example, IEEE 185-1975, the tuner testing standard, defines at least three measurements of sensitivity. The vague notion of signal pulling power turns out to be not so simple. I don't think we have the consistently agreed-upon measurements yet to adequately describe the magic part of music. Not that it isn't possible. But if they exist, they aren't commonly understood in a way that allows non-scientists to consistently communicate about them. Nor does the current state of audio measurement art allow different scientists to reliably achieve the same effect in reproducing musical events. Beauty, on the other hand is, and should be subjective. After modifying my Transporter, Beauty is certainly accomplished, at least for me. But then again, I suppose because beauty is such a subjective phenomenon, I shouldn't be surprised that other folks might object to such a subjective claim. After all, who am I to criticize someone else's concept of beauty? Unqualified, fer sure! Thanks -- HalleysComet HalleysComet's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14590 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
95bcwh;297763 Wrote: ShockinglyI'm not new to these forums, I just left for a while, but I'm shocked to come back and found that people here still wasting their time arguing with Tom. Guys..do you know that he has hearing deficiency? Have a nice day! Sorry , 95, I have my ears tested annually, they are fine, being a professional musician makes that important. Sorry to see that you, OTOH, are still as intellectually deficient as ever. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
H doesn't it matter more about synergy in components and personal listening tastes? I've found that you really can't say something is better or not, just that it suits your system. I'm fascinated at the emotion this stirs up! Persoanlly I thought the original post wasn't that ra ra - I read it and took it for what it is. Persoanlly I have different amp's for different music - my favourite 6CLC Spud amp for colour eg femal vocals, jazz - and a Bryston 100 SST for large scale orchestral. The Transpoter (stock) sounds to my middle aged ears just fine with both - different but fine. Less is more eh?? -- tricka Lynx 2 Custom Shiuy SEP 2.5 watt B200 OB/ Custom Sub (450 watt plate) MAC cables tricka's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11614 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
tricka;285116 Wrote: H doesn't it matter more about synergy in components and personal listening tastes? I've found that you really can't say something is better or not, just that it suits your system as you like to hear it. I'm fascinated at the emotion this stirs up! Personally I thought the original post wasn't that ra ra - I read it and took it for what it is: a personal perspective. I have different amp's for different music - my favourite 6CLC Spud amp for colour eg female vocals, jazz - and a Bryston 100 SST for large scale orchestral. The Transporter (stock) sounds to my middle aged ears just fine with both - different but fine. Less is more eh?? Hmmm.. I would be a bit worried if some equipment worked with some music and some equipment worked with other kinds of music. Guess I'm a bit in the same situation myself... I've got a pair of Duntech PCL-15's (made in Australia of course) that's about the best speakers I have heard at any price when it comes to presenting small scale music with female vocals... Listen to the closest thing to crazy with Katie Melua and you will possibly have tears in your eyes... Try heavy rock and everything falls apart I guess we should try to aim for rig's that work with all kinds of music with all our equipment. ...or should we? I wouldn't really mind switching speakers every now and then, perhaps if I used an active crossover with my Duntech's they would work heaps better because the issue with them is that they don't tolerate deep bass at high power levels... If we can dig into what's the issue with our equipment and find an affordable way to resolve... That's a significant step ahead b.t.w. I love your opera house :-D -- haraldo Suse Linux Enterprise Desktop / SC7 - SB3 - Benchmark DAC1 - Krell KAV400xi - Meadowlark Kestrel2 / Duntech PCL-15 Everything is difficult before it's easy haraldo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13472 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
haraldo;285123 Wrote: Hmmm.. I would be a bit worried if some equipment worked with some music and some equipment worked with other kinds of music. b.t.w. I love your opera house :-D Oh I don't know...I think that tube tonal colour doesn't suit all styles of music. I like my orchestral straight up, my female vocal coloured and my dance/trip hop straight up as well. I'm not sure that you can have it all without compromise somewhere. Most of my hi fi friends have a few different rigs and mix and match depending on what they are after. One has a 6CLC tube like mine (actually the same - he built mine!!), a cheaper CD player and a pair of Jamo's for casual listening and the full exepnsive CD player, ML Ribbons/ NAD S200 Pre/ dual mono's for serious listening to orchestra. I also have a set of Hornshoppe Horns that I love for what they do...and I adore a great set of monitors eg your Duntech's ...but forget about driving them with a flea watt tube - and it's associated tonal warmth. Thank you - we think it is lovely as well! Best Wishes Andrew -- tricka Transporter Bryston SST 100 / 6CLC Spud Hawthorne SSI Duet OB (Reckhorn for Auggies) MAC cables (power/IC's/ speaker) Furutech Power conditioner Headphone adapter for 6 CLC Sud and AKG 701's A Spoonful of Slow... tricka's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11614 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
haraldo;284638 Wrote: I normally use Sikaflex adhesive and a dirt cheap BlackDecker heating gun to fix the holes when we have snipers in our area I've heard the silkaflex has good room treatment acustics as well. Did you DBT before and after bullet hole fix? -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
tomjtx;284558 Wrote: BTW, does anyone know a good drywall/painter guy to fill the bullet holes in my walls? I normally use Sikaflex adhesive and a dirt cheap BlackDecker heating gun to fix the holes when we have snipers in our area -- haraldo Suse Linux Enterprise Desktop / SC7 - SB3 - Benchmark DAC1 - Krell KAV400xi - Meadowlark Kestrel2 / Duntech PCL-15 Everything is difficult before it's easy haraldo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13472 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
tomjtx;284644 Wrote: I've heard the silkaflex has good room treatment acustics as well. Did you DBT before and after bullet hole fix? Yas, I did DBT, and I compared Sikaflex and some brands of Acrylic glue, you seem to get slightly better midrange dynamics with Sikaflex, and a bit less treble glare which is why I prefer this as my main tweak now... -- haraldo Suse Linux Enterprise Desktop / SC7 - SB3 - Benchmark DAC1 - Krell KAV400xi - Meadowlark Kestrel2 / Duntech PCL-15 Everything is difficult before it's easy haraldo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13472 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
I've given up trying to change the minds of audiophiles. There's only one alternative left. Darren PS: Sorry about your wall. PPS: It would help if you sat still just for one darned minute! -- darrenyeats SB3 / Inguz - Krell KAV-300i (pre bypass) - PMC AB-1 Dell laptop - JVC UX-C30 mini system darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
I'm so confused.. I thought the ceiling texture worked best to diffuse bullet backwaves? Anyone here live in the SF Bay Area? I'd love to audition that wooly Modright TP and the tizzy stock TP side by side. I have a slightly modded SB3 with the Welbourne PS. I added a nice DIY VH Audio power cord last night to that linear P.S. only because it was a temporary spare and thinking it would probably make no difference to the sound of my SB3 but what the hell.. Now I have to go home and AB these power cords some more because we must have smoked something last night - and I don't mean electronics! We could not believe how much change occurred with that cable. I have to get home and reaudition this change - or find that roach. -- NoFlyZone NoFlyZone's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15336 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
darrenyeats;284774 Wrote: I've given up trying to change the minds of audiophiles. There's only one alternative left. Darren PS: Sorry about your wall. PPS: It would help if you sat still just for one darned minute! I can't sit still , a moving target is harder to hit. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
tomjtx;284897 Wrote: I can't sit still , a moving target is harder to hit. There's been an olympic event... Shooting on running targets In Norwegian we call this: Shooting on running boar Perhaps quite ok to describe audiophiles. -- haraldo Suse Linux Enterprise Desktop / SC7 - SB3 - Benchmark DAC1 - Krell KAV400xi - Meadowlark Kestrel2 / Duntech PCL-15 Everything is difficult before it's easy haraldo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13472 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
Thanks for the kudos. And yes, you guys are correct about the comparo. :) I did not have both products in my room at the same time. In fact they were at least a month apart, and my memory is what we're we talking about? Seriously, the stock sound was pretty evident, and not that difficult to remember. The detail and resolution was jaw-dropping, just that the sound was over the top in my room, and the persepctive was wayyy too forward and quite a bit tizzy on top. This is not blame on the TP. It was built for a price point. The Modwright mods are ridiculously comprehensive (take a look at earlier before and after pix) and put much better parts in the important areas of the signal path. No duh! If Logitech were to build a $4k TP they would have likely spent the money there too. Just as they did in the stock TP over the SB3 or Duet. No one is debating that the stock TP sounds different than the stock SB3. The sound differences weren't difficult to distinguish, even after 30+ days. I know my system. I like the Modwright TP sound; it is better for my system. As always, YMMV, mainly because your road may be way different than mine. -- ted_b ted_b's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3289 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
I would agree on the stock sound - very transparent and revealing but the highs aren't 'tizzy,' just accurate and I have a very resolving system. Tizzy sounds like the stock unit would have a problem or be inaccurate. Thanks for your post Ted. Good to hear your thoughts. Bill -- mr_bill mr_bill's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6737 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
mr_bill;284492 Wrote: I would agree on the stock sound - very transparent and revealing but the highs aren't 'tizzy,' just accurate and I have a very resolving system. Tizzy sounds like the stock unit would have a problem or be inaccurate. Thanks for your post Ted. Good to hear your thoughts. Bill My stock unit wasn't broken. The highs were too bright in my system. I'm glad they were fine in yours. -- ted_b ted_b's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3289 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
mr_bill;283857 Wrote: I posted on the Audiocircle forum on the Transporter thread asking the reviewers for the comparison to the stock Transporter, but that was blown off. In my mind - what's the point of just reviewing the modded Transporter without coomparing to the stock unit? Maybe the stock unit is better, the same or .worse! Now that is the comparison we need to read about. How were you blown off? this was Danny Kaey's response to you: howdy... I won't be reviewing the stock TP per-se; I'll spend most of the time in the Truth TP domain - I feel it eclipses the former by a considerable margin as to devote an entire review to it when the Truth TP is so much more... -- rydenfan rydenfan's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15335 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
rydenfan;283865 Wrote: How were you blown off? this was Danny Kaey's response to you: howdy... I won't be reviewing the stock TP per-se; I'll spend most of the time in the Truth TP domain - I feel it eclipses the former by a considerable margin as to devote an entire review to it when the Truth TP is so much more... I was referring to my post to Srajaen earlier - not Danny. If I would have known that you are analyzing my posts, I would have clarified that. -- mr_bill mr_bill's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6737 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
tomjtx;283628 Wrote: Now now ,Adam, of course there was a point. I don't respect loony tune reviewers like srajean, Kaey and others of their ilk. I do respect your taste in music a great deal , however. So I'm not all bad :-) I do have to go away soon tonight. A swedish classical guitarist is in town and we are performing informally at my favorite cafe tonight. I need to go practice so we can have truth in music modwright style. Hey, if I hang some tubes on my classical guitar will it sound better? I need to ask Srajean. Disclaimer: I have a tube headphone amp and a classic Macitosh amp and I love them both. Sand amps have their colorations too! Every amp that I've owned had it's own flavor. Actually, you can just change a cap or two in most good amps and there will probably be a slightly different sound quality. If sand amps don't color the sound they should all sound the same, eh? -Roy BTW how can you judge the Modwright TP if you've never auditioned one and performed a supervised blind A/B? -- rajacat rajacat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4156 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
Back in the old days we would flavor our recordings with tone controls. Nowadays we do it with amps, cables and modifications. What I and others have said about the Modwright Transporter should not be taken as the stock one sucks but instead the Transporter is such a great device and proves that Slim Devices/Logitech is wa ahead of the competition. I'd never attempt to throw sand, glass and money at a Sonos or Klimax system in an effort to create a different sounding giant-killer. The Modwright Transporter, in my well-treated room, with my fairly high resolution system, to my ears, is significantly more musical, revealing and enjoyable than the stock Transporter I owned for some time. My comments can be seen in the 6Moons review, but simply enough: it's clearly a synergy thing. If you believe your stock Transporter's unique sound combines well with the rest of your system, then so be it. Don't make a change. Just go buy more cd's and rip them. In my system, the Modwright version was much more organic sounding, yet even more dynamic (huge power supply probably helps here a LOT) had a much larger truer soundstage, and the air around each instrument was noticeably better and clearer. I won't attribute all of this to Dan's Transporter mods. Some of it is magic...the magic of those tumblers falling into place...not too sweet, not too sour. My Tesla cables, my Soundstring cables, my Modwright preamp, the tubes I've chosen, the McCormack DNA-500 amp, the room treatments (large use of Realtrap bass traps, first reflection RFZ's and diffusors) all enter into this recipe. But the stock Transporter, in my system, was too analytical and cold for my tastes, and would not have allowed me to make the flavor changes required...IMHO. -- ted_b ted_b's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3289 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
rajacat;284015 Wrote: Sand amps have their colorations too! Every amp that I've owned had it's own flavor. Actually, you can just change a cap or two in most good amps and there will probably be a slightly different sound quality. If sand amps don't color the sound they should all sound the same, eh? -Roy BTW how can you judge the Modwright TP if you've never auditioned one and performed a supervised blind A/B? Hi Raj, long time no see :-) Exactly. I don't have an opinion on the MW TP as to whether or not it sounds as good as the TP. Modwright put out good product so I suspect it is possible they didn't make it worse spec wise. I suspect, since it has tubes, it sounds different. For me to establish a preference I would have to ab them sighted and blind . Most the MW TP owners have not made a direct comparo and I do take issue with their claims of sonic superiority. Preference is another matter and is subjective. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
Phil Leigh;284056 Wrote: You clearly can't distinguish improved from different... What is the problem here? Sticking some valves across the o/p is going to make it sound different for sure...and some people will prefer that sound which is fine. But it is not better in any absolute sense - just different. It's hard to speak in absolutes since we all react differently to sound by virtue of our unique hearing tools i.e shape of ear canals etc., etc. So really there is nothing to argue about! ha, ha Maybe you could argue if change can be affected through the addition of tubes, different caps or whatever... -- rajacat rajacat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4156 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
xand1x;284050 Wrote: x2. Srajan's review would have been more credible if he compared it to a stock transporter in all fairness. I highly doubt financial constraint was a limiting factor either =\ I agree. Srajan should have had a stock TP on hand as a reference. -Roy -- rajacat rajacat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4156 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
tomjtx;284122 Wrote: ... comparo between the two. ...do a realtime comparo... ...ted did a direct comparo... comparo. Jeez, I just cannot...hmm http://www.comparo.co.uk/ _? . -- haunyack Transporter | BK 200.2 | Vandersteen 3A Signature C.G. Conn New York Wonder haunyack's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9721 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
haunyack;284129 Wrote: Ah yes ;-) Thought you may have coined a new buzz word. When I hear the term comparo again, I will attribute it to tomjtx. . Alas, I cannot take credit, that is a word oft used on head-fi. Do not go gentle into the night rage against the dying of the light do a comparo blind without sight -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
tomjtx;284132 Wrote: Alas, I cannot take credit, that is a word oft used on head-fi. Do not go gentle into the night rage against the dying of the light do a comparo blind without sight Sorry 'bout the hijack y'all. head-fi, this newbie will check that out. Phones? I'm yet to explore that world of internal soundstage. Still, in my mind comparo := tomjtx Happy doodles! Anyone know who coined THAT term? snarlydwarf might. . -- haunyack Transporter | BK 200.2 | Vandersteen 3A Signature C.G. Conn New York Wonder haunyack's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9721 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
For anyone that is interested 6moons just reviewed the Modwright transporter and favorably compared it to a $30,000 Esoteric player. Needless to say it was awarded a 6moons award. Here is the review: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/modwright3/transporter.html -- rydenfan rydenfan's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15335 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
rydenfan;283380 Wrote: For anyone that is interested 6moons just reviewed the Modwright transporter and favorably compared it to a $30,000 Esoteric player. Needless to say it was awarded a 6moons award. Here is the review: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/modwright3/transporter.html Who cares? That mag also saw no point in comparing or even listening to a stock TP. The reviewer couldn't be bothered to listen to a stock component. Why give credence to such a biased reviewer? They represent everything that is wrong about hi end audio. His knowledge of streaming audio is laughable. He was also pushing the rip off 1,000.00 Music Vault. Until he admitted he couldn't get it to work. That mag is for the unthinking insecure audiophile that needs a reviewer's praise to feel validated about wasting money. Well. sorry to hold back, when I have more time, I'll tell you how I really feel :-) -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
rydenfan;283380 Wrote: For anyone that is interested 6moons just reviewed the Modwright transporter and favorably compared it to a $30,000 Esoteric player. Needless to say it was awarded a 6moons award. Cheers, interesting to see. I have almost written off the Linn stuff completely because of the quality of SqueezeCenter; this is probably the only digital upgrade I could make. Tom, there was no point to your post. Go away. :) -- adamslim Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others SB+, EAR V20, Living Voice OBX-R2s plus some other stuff SB3, Charlize, Harbeth HL-P3ES adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
Actually I agree with Tom (some). It would have been more interesting to compare a stock TP vs modded vs whatever... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
tomjtx;283423 Wrote: Who cares? That reviewer also saw no point in comparing or even listening to a stock TP. The reviewer couldn't be bothered to listen to a stock component. Why give credence to such a biased reviewer? If Srajean did a DBT comparo of the Mod TP , the Esoteric and a stock TP I would bet a lot of money he couldn't tell the difference. Of course he is likely too afraid to do that since it would destroy the (undeserved) credibility he thinks he has as a reviewer. 6Moons represents everything that is wrong about hi end audio. His knowledge of streaming audio is laughable. He was also pushing the rip off 1,000.00 Music Vault. Until he admitted he couldn't get it to work. That mag is for the unthinking insecure audiophile that needs a reviewer's praise to feel validated about wasting money. Well. sorry to hold back, when I have more time, I'll tell you how I really feel :-) I think everybody should be allowed to post their opinions, we don't always have to agree :-) I think the negative remarks on the Music Vault was weird, to say the least, in such a review. -- haraldo Suse Linux Enterprise Desktop / SC7 - SB3 - Benchmark DAC1 - Krell KAV400xi - Meadowlark Kestrel2 / Duntech PCL-15 Everything is difficult before it's easy haraldo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13472 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
Tom you truly never cease to amaze me. You get upset if somebody posts about the Modwright in any thread. So the only place I have discussed it is here, and yet you still bash. What is your problem? Here is something just for you! This is a quote from Danny Kaey who is the US editor for The Inner Ear and the Senior Assistant Editor for Positive Feedback Online. the quote is in reference to if his review of the Modwright Transporter will also include the stock Transporter (which he has had before) howdy... I won't be reviewing the stock TP per-se; I'll spend most of the time in the Truth TP domain - I feel it eclipses the former by a considerable margin as to devote an entire review to it when the Truth TP is so much more... -- rydenfan rydenfan's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15335 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
Disappointing review, I agree. As I have said before, I have heard both the stock and the Mod and while both are great, prefer the Modwright. Definitely worth a listen for anyone who has interest.I think the 6Moons review is not very valuable without a comparision to the stock model. As with all magazine rviews, it must be taken with a grain of salt. -- Shredder Shredder's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11380 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
haraldo;283601 Wrote: I think everybody should be allowed to post their opinions, we don't always have to agree :-) I think the negative remarks on the Music Vault was weird, to say the least, in such a review. I think everyone should be allowed to post their opinion as well. That is what I was doing. I don't pay much attention to reviewers anymore. For me , they are a waste of time. Srajean's refusal to compare a stock TP and his implied dismissal of the stock as not worth his time is the sort of audiophile snobbery that has no place in a serious reviewer. Unfortunately most reviewers are like that. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
tomjtx;283622 Wrote: Srajean's refusal to compare a stock TP and his implied dismissal of the stock as not worth his time is the sort of audiophile snobbery that has no place in a serious reviewer. Unfortunately most reviewers are like that. Which is why I almost don't read Stereophile anymore, even If I still have a subscription Looking at Michael Fremer's review list is a shocker, when did he ever review a turntable that costs less than $25.000 -- haraldo Suse Linux Enterprise Desktop / SC7 - SB3 - Benchmark DAC1 - Krell KAV400xi - Meadowlark Kestrel2 / Duntech PCL-15 Everything is difficult before it's easy haraldo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13472 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
rydenfan;283612 Wrote: Tom you truly never cease to amaze me. You get upset if somebody posts about the Modwright in any thread. So the only place I have discussed it is here, and yet you still bash. What is your problem? Here is something just for you! This is a quote from Danny Kaey who is the US editor for The Inner Ear and the Senior Assistant Editor for Positive Feedback Online. the quote is in reference to if his review of the Modwright Transporter will also include the stock Transporter (which he has had before) howdy... I won't be reviewing the stock TP per-se; I'll spend most of the time in the Truth TP domain - I feel it eclipses the former by a considerable margin as to devote an entire review to it when the Truth TP is so much more... rydenfan, I'm not the least bit upset. I also don't care about Kaey's opinion either. He is just another self appointed audio expert . I trust my ears a lot more than any audio reviewer. And I am not afraid to compare things blind. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
adamslim;283564 Wrote: Cheers, interesting to see. I have almost written off the Linn stuff completely because of the quality of SqueezeCenter; this is probably the only digital upgrade I could make. Tom, there was no point to your post. Go away. :) Now now ,Adam, of course there was a point. I don't respect loony tune reviewers like srajean, Kaey and others of their ilk. I do respect your taste in music a great deal , however. So I'm not all bad :-) I do have to go away soon tonight. A swedish classical guitarist is in town and we are performing informally at my favorite cafe tonight. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
Shredder;283613 Wrote: Disappointing review, I agree. As I have said before, I have heard both the stock and the Mod and while both are great, prefer the Modwright. Definitely worth a listen for anyone who has interest.I think the 6Moons review is not very valuable without a comparision to the stock model. As with all magazine rviews, it must be taken with a grain of salt. How about a mountain of salt? :-) -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
Lefatshe;278634 Wrote: the audiophile goal: faking-out your brain so you believe you're at the live concert. I really enjoy that description :-)) -- haraldo Suse Linux Enterprise Desktop / SC7 - SB3 - Benchmark DAC1 - Krell KAV400xi - Meadowlark Kestrel2 / Duntech PCL-15 Everything is difficult before it's easy haraldo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13472 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
Thanks Frank for describing your equipment with the ModWright Transporter. In my short experience with audiophile equipment the associated equipment, the room and the wires all matter. I'm glad your ears love it. The audiophile who sold me my Transporter (thanks Karl) highly recommended Dan's work, especially if it becomes the center of my system. HalleysComet;267932 Wrote: My music room has electrostats (some early Roger Sanders Eros), with his Innersound amplifiers. Probably not too different than your ML's, I would guess. I use a passive transformer-based preamp there. This system is brutally revealing, but whole-cloth honest. Mostly I listen to vinyl in this system. I have a nice Teres-based record deck, which is my primary source, via a KK phono preamp. In my living room I have Magneplanar 1.6qr speakers which are actively bi-amped via a pair of heavily modified Harmon Kardon Citation amplifiers, basically 130 watts per channel (one amp channel per speaker driver). The Maggies are inherently sweeter sounding than the Eros, but lower resolution than the electrostats, although MUCH more capable of detail retreival than they were stock. This is the system for which I purchased the Transporter, but I like it so well, I think it will end up living in my music room, where I do my serious listening. For the living room, it's shared space. I'll probably spring for a Duet, and run it through my (ModWright-modified!) DAC. I've done a lot of A/B listening through the un-modded Transporter. I've tried feeding the DAC with a Rotel and a Pioneer Elite CD player. Switched the interconnects and powercords to the Transporter, and from it. (Yes, DarrenYeats, this thread could be all be about wires!) And I've compared the Transporter's DAC to the DAC's in each CDP mentioned above and a Polyfusion Audio DAC. I've even fed the Transporter into a Mapleshade Magic amp (hybrid tubes/ss stages) and noted the introduction of the tubes into the signal path! All great. It depends on what your ears like. Frank, your writing describes beautifully the audiophile goal: faking-out your brain so you believe you're at the live concert. Thanks. -- Lefatshe SqueezeCenter Version: 7.0 - 17793 - Debian - EN - iso-8859-1 Perl Version: 5.8.8 i486-linux-gnu-thread-multi MySQL Version: 5.0.45-Debian_1ubuntu3.1 Fanless Zalman TNN 300 PC-Transporter-Kimber silver-Rotel Rx-1052-Mapleshade wires-Gallo Reference 2 Lefatshe's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13577 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
Phil Leigh;270306 Wrote: The mosquito works at 17.4khz...if you can hear that and are over 25, you have bat ears. There are CD's with stuff on up there - but you aren't going to miss it too much IMHO. I'm 39 and have no problem hearing the mosquito or other tones in the 17-18k range. Guess I'm fortunate, but this high end stuff would be less expensive for me if my ears rolled off at 15k. :-) -- twylie Thecus N5200 - transporter - Krell KRC2 - nuforce 8b - Sonus Faber Concertos / Audio Physic Sparks twylie's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=956 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
twylie;270617 Wrote: I'm 39 and have no problem hearing the mosquito or other tones in the 17-18k range. Guess I'm fortunate, but this high end stuff would be less expensive for me if my ears rolled off at 15k. :-) Then you are certainly incredibly lucky...and have almost certainly never seen Deep Purple in concert in the 70's! :o) Mostly what's up there is harmonics from cymbals and other percussion instruments. Most people seem to prefer to have a slight roll-off in their room above 15k anyway. Given that frequencies that high need quite a bit of energy to travel very far from your speaker that's not a bad thing. Try sticking your head near a tweeter and then move it away slowy - amazing how quickly it gets a lot quieter... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
ted_b;270145 Wrote: The vile and unsupported criticism (i.e without ever hearing it) on this thread is embarrassing. Well to be fair, you kind of set yourself up for it be saying how much better your TP is than those of other posters on this forum. However true that is, it's bound to annoy. I'm definitely in the skeptical camp, most of the claims made by modders are pseudo-science and easily disproved, but what the heck, it's your money. For me, it's similar to whether something is a more accurate recording as opposed to being a more emotional experience. I love my old punk records, but are they well recorded? Nope. Put a big smile on my face? Yep. I'm sure it's the same for modded gear. It's almost definitely a step back in accuracy, but it feels more like music, or perhaps it's just apart of this hobby and doesn't need justification. One reminder for me of keeping it real was the recent outcry about mosquito sound machines in the UK, designed to keep teenagers from forming gangs around shopping centres. Apparently only the under-25 hear a painful noise, the rest of us can't hear a thing. So much for my ability to judge the tonal accuracy of a system when I'm only hearing a fraction of what's on the CD. -- CardinalFang CardinalFang's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=962 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
CardinalFang;270295 Wrote: when I'm only hearing a fraction of what's on the CD. I'd rather hear a fraction, than a fraction of a fraction. -- Patrick Dixon www.at-tunes.co.uk Patrick Dixon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=90 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
The mosquito works at 17.4khz...if you can hear that and are over 25, you have bat ears. There are CD's with stuff on up there - but you aren't going to miss it too much IMHO. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
Phil Leigh;270306 Wrote: There are CD's with stuff on up there - but you aren't going to miss it too much IMHO. I guess my point was that we ought to recognise that our ears are significantly degraded by age, loud concerts, iPods etc., so we shouldn't get too wound up about accuracy when in all likelihood we need boosted frequencies to actually hear everything in the first place. Meh. Just trying to present an alternate point of view, I suppose the sides are drawn up already. -- CardinalFang CardinalFang's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=962 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
It's a good point. I guess it indicates that 48KHz, 96KHz and up audio is more about how good or bad the pre-ADC filters in the recording process are, rather than anything in the replay chain. After all, if we can't even hear 17KHz, there's not much point in worrying about reproducing 24KHz - we just need to stop it from aliasing with the 'audible' range lower down. -- Patrick Dixon www.at-tunes.co.uk Patrick Dixon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=90 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
Even though it's claimed that what happens above 20KHz is of no interest, we still can hear the effects of what happens above 20KHz, this may be as phase shifts, for instance... A brick wall analog filter at 22KHz is definitely audible. Why is it so that adding a murata supertweeter that goes to 100KHz may have a significant effect on the treble I certainly don't know I just know that there's much we don't know -- haraldo Suse Linux / SC7 - SB3 - Benchmark DAC1 - Krell KAV400xi - Meadowlark Kestrel2 Everything is difficult before it's easy haraldo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13472 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
CardinalFang;270295 Wrote: Well to be fair, you kind of set yourself up for it be saying how much better your TP is than those of other posters on this forum. However true that is, it's bound to annoy. ??? I never said such a thing. I entered this thread very late, and I said I personally like my Modwright TP sound, in my room, with my system, better than the stock TP sound in same environ. I said YMMV (your mileage may vary). I never would imply that my toys are better than yours. -- ted_b ted_b's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3289 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
Patrick Dixon;270438 Wrote: It's a good point. I guess it indicates that 48KHz, 96KHz and up audio is more about how good or bad the pre-ADC filters in the recording process are, rather than anything in the replay chain. After all, if we can't even hear 17KHz, there's not much point in worrying about reproducing 24KHz - we just need to stop it from aliasing with the 'audible' range lower down. IMHO, this is mostly true, which is why 192 KHz is at the bottom of my wish list. Without going into specifics, let me say that there seem to be obvious, though often not really annoying, flaws in many of my 96 KHz and 192 KHz files, such as noise and peak overs. Seems to me that at 24-bit resolution, there is absolutely no reason either of these problems ever need to occur, and if they're going to the trouble to release a recording in 96 KHz or 192 KHz format, it seems to me they'd also go to the trouble to ensure the noise floor of their transfer equipment is below the analog tape noise of the master and there are no clipped peaks... -- Timothy Stockman Timothy Stockman's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8867 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
I am Dan's first Modwright TP customer and have had it for months now. It is the best digital front-end I've ever heard, and I've heard many. I like it, in my system, in my well-treated room, quite a bit more than the stock TP, a wonderful invention if I say so. I've posted pics and comments on another thread quite awhile ago. The vile and unsupported criticism (i.e without ever hearing it) on this thread is embarrassing. Thanks to Sean and Slim Devices/Logitech for inventing this wonderful product, along with the software to complement it. The support Sean and team have shown me is first rate. Thanks to Dan Wright for changing the sound to work better and synergize in my room, with my equipment. The power supply, sophisticated tube rectifier and analog stage, and subsequent 24/96 tube dac capabilities are music to my ears. YMMV. -- ted_b ted_b's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3289 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
ted_b;270145 Wrote: I am Dan's first Modwright TP customer and have had it for months now. It is the best digital front-end I've ever heard, and I've heard many. I like it, in my system, in my well-treated room, quite a bit more than the stock TP, a wonderful invention if I say so. I've posted pics and comments on another thread quite awhile ago. The vile and unsupported criticism (i.e without ever hearing it) on this thread is embarrassing. Thanks to Sean and Slim Devices/Logitech for inventing this wonderful product, along with the software to complement it. The support Sean and team have shown me is first rate. Thanks to Dan Wright for changing the sound to work better and synergize in my room, with my equipment. The power supply, sophisticated tube rectifier and analog stage, and subsequent 24/96 tube dac capabilities are music to my ears. YMMV. Hey Ted, I appreciate your sharing your experience. In fact, your posts were a big part of my initial interest in doing the upgrade with Dan. I certainly consider it money well spent! I just wanted to say a personal thank you! since you helped me discover the best digital sound I've yet heard in my home. I'm just now listening to my ModWright Logitech Transporter... I heard Lyle Lovett in concert Thursday night, and listening to his latest CD and comparing to the (admittedly flawed) auditory memory of that night is revelatory. I'm reliving it, and lovin' it! Thanks! Frank -- HalleysComet HalleysComet's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14590 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
ted_b;270145 Wrote: I am Dan's first Modwright TP customer and have had it for months now. It is the best digital front-end I've ever heard, and I've heard many. I like it, in my system, in my well-treated room, quite a bit more than the stock TP, a wonderful invention if I say so. I've posted pics and comments on another thread quite awhile ago. The vile and unsupported criticism (i.e without ever hearing it) on this thread is embarrassing. Thanks to Sean and Slim Devices/Logitech for inventing this wonderful product, along with the software to complement it. The support Sean and team have shown me is first rate. Thanks to Dan Wright for changing the sound to work better and synergize in my room, with my equipment. The power supply, sophisticated tube rectifier and analog stage, and subsequent 24/96 tube dac capabilities are music to my ears. YMMV. Vile criticism ? Isn't that being a bit -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
ted_b;270145 Wrote: I am Dan's first Modwright TP customer and have had it for months now. It is the best digital front-end I've ever heard, and I've heard many. I like it, in my system, in my well-treated room, quite a bit more than the stock TP, a wonderful invention if I say so. I've posted pics and comments on another thread quite awhile ago. The vile and unsupported criticism (i.e without ever hearing it) on this thread is embarrassing. Thanks to Sean and Slim Devices/Logitech for inventing this wonderful product, along with the software to complement it. The support Sean and team have shown me is first rate. Thanks to Dan Wright for changing the sound to work better and synergize in my room, with my equipment. The power supply, sophisticated tube rectifier and analog stage, and subsequent 24/96 tube dac capabilities are music to my ears. YMMV. Vile criticism ? Isn't that being a bit extreme ? After all I think the MW TP would make an excellent hand warmer with all those tubes next to me on the couch while I listen to a REAL TP through my speakers. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
ted_b;270145 Wrote: The vile and unsupported criticism (i.e without ever hearing it) on this thread is embarrassing. Don't be embarassed. It's par for the course around here. In the future I'd recommend just not posting in this forum and let them start ragging on each other when they find themselves with nothing else to do. -- JJZolx Jim JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
I placed my order with Dan yesterday. I will post my impressions once it arrives. -- rydenfan rydenfan's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15335 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
opaqueice;268032 Wrote: What evidence do you have for that? That's not how he describes them on his website. Of course, what he says doesn't make any sense at all, so that's not saying much. HalleysComet, opaqueice is a physicist so he speaks with some authority when he says the bybee claims are nonsensical :-) There are threads debunking bybees science and his bio on several forums. Search here, AA and AC and you should find a good deal of info. Bybee is one of the worst of the snake oil purveyors IMO. . -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
It would be interesting to see some MEASURED performance of various Transporter modifications. Before I get the usual chorus of measurements don't count, sound does, let me point out that measurements DO clearly count, because the ear and brain are apparently registering a difference. It seems to me that the problem becomes finding the correct measurement which shows what the difference is. Does MW make any attempt to quamtify the improvement they make? In the end, the Transporter, whether it is stock, MW or something else puts out a waveform. Seems to me that, since the input is digital, one can know exactly what the output should look like. The difficulty is finding measuring devices with sufficient precision; I would think even a stock Transporter would push many measuring devices to the limit. But, hearing has limits also and many measurements (not all) are far more precise than humam hearing Anyway, what does MW specify is the improvement? -- Timothy Stockman Timothy Stockman's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8867 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
Pat Farrell;267868 Wrote: Shredder wrote:[color=blue] Glad you like it. As far as I'm concerned, anyone can listen to, and like anything, and its fine by me. Its your ears and your money. All the arguing about circuits and parts is hot air. IMHO. Ah, a breath of fresh air! As usual (perusing your past posts) you bring a terrific common-sense perspective to the discussion. I admired the Transporter in its original form, but not enough for it to be worth $2,000 to me. But in it's revised form it's worth $3,600 to me (what I paid). I like it so well, I think it's worthwhile for others to audition it. Hopefully some folks will find this useful, or at least provocative wink Frank -- HalleysComet HalleysComet's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14590 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
Timothy Stockman;268234 Wrote: Does MW make any attempt to quamtify the improvement they make? . . . Anyway, what does MW specify is the improvement? Actually, they do not claim anything. But you can find what the other people say. This thread is a good start. Also, you can have a look at Dan's forum: http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?board=14.0 -- alekz alekz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13574 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
HalleysComet;267932 Wrote: Hope this helps! Thanks Frank. I still have some concerns (apart from how it would sound in my system ;-): o- if there's space for both Maui and ModWright mods o- if ModWright mods are reversible o- vibration damping (mostly tubes) o- the length of the wires going to the XLR and RCA connectors (something like 25cm, 1/4 of the TS - preamp interconnect) I wish a TS had a more serviceable and less ringy case ... -- alekz alekz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13574 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
About the measurements: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38815page=19 -- alekz alekz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13574 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
HalleysComet;267843 Wrote: Jack Bybee was able to develop a successful solution to allow sonar listeners to more reliably detect enemy submarines, using technology he developed that was kept classified by the US Navy for a number of years. What evidence do you have for that? Well, the so-called Bybee Purifiers may or may not do anything for your system. Where they seem to matter is where you have very high bandwidth amplification, where high-frequency harmonics have the potential to impact the sonic spectrum. Digital circuitry in particular provides a certain level of nastiness that good design can mitigate, but the Bybee parts in the right application can provide a perceptible improvement. That's not how he describes them on his website. Of course, what he says doesn't make any sense at all, so that's not saying much. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
tomjtx;267543 Wrote: I auditioned a full blown bolder SB and a modded TP in my home for several weeks each doing careful, level matched comparisons. So at least some making comments have heard the other gear :-) I stayed with the stock TP. The other gear was not an improvement to my ears. I haven't heard the Modwright . Dan has a great rep and I suspect it sounds quite good. Whether or not one prefers it to the stock would likely boil down to personal preference. and the willingness to consume 4000 in credit or cash. -- GuyDebord Reference3A RoyalMaster monitors biwired with van den Hul Inspiration, REL Strata5. AMPS: Pathos Classic One MKIII's in mono config. ANALOGUE: Clearaudio Ambient CMB, Satisfy Carbon Lyra Helikon SL, ASR MiniBasis SQ preamp, link: WireWorld SilverEclipse 5.2. DIGITAL: SlimDevices Transporter, link: AcousticZen Silver Reference2 XLRs. POWER: Isotek MiniSub GII, Isotek Elite cables (MiniSub, Rel), Siltech SPX30 MKII (Transporter), van den Hul Mainstream (Pathos) van den Hul Mainserver (ASR). GuyDebord's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14587 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
[cold-induced rant] I think part of the problem here is some slightly unfortunate choices of language. For example, the OP used the word limitations implying that the MW is absolutely better that the inherently flawed original TP output stage. It isn't - it's just different. Valves aren't better than transistors - they are just different. That's fine. Nothing wrong with that. But can we please have a moratorium on the unqualified use of the word better? No-one can define better in this context. Preferable to me is OK!...as is different. You can say what you like, but you cannot say it's better/more accurate/more realistic than what I like. It's all an illusion - you use yours and I'll use mine. Later we get the use of the word fake...this is simply wrong. All analogue audio stages impart their own character on a signal - be it in terms of noise, freq response, dynamic response etc. IF you like or dislike what they do then fine. However, you can't say one is fake as if to imply that another may be natural or realistic. None of them are. Can't we discuss this stuff without confusing opinion with fact? [/cold-induced rant] -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
Phil Leigh;267621 Wrote: Valves aren't better than transistors - they are just different. That's fine. Nothing wrong with that. But can we please have a moratorium on the unqualified use of the word better? No-one can define better in this context. Valves may not be intrinsically better than transistors, maybe, but I'm pretty sure transistors -sound- worse than valves ;) -- adamslim Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others SB+, EAR V20, Living Voice OBX-R2s plus some other stuff SB3, Charlize, Harbeth HL-P3ES adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
Please notice that nobody mentioned measurements in this thread ;-) (see here: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38815page=19) Probably (since people will mod their TP/SB's anyway) it would be useful to create threads dedicated to all available mods. Or at least to compare them. Stock Transporter: http://photos.lam.ws/gallery/1930618/2/98101199/Large [EMAIL PROTECTED]: o- digital part is not touched at all o- no line filters or PS mods o- completely redone analogue domain o- dedicated PS with a tube/choke rectifier o- transformer coupled balanced outputs o- no coupling capacitors o- no opamps So, if you use an external DAC, Dan's mods will absolutely useless for you. [EMAIL PROTECTED]/Aberdeen http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii158/alekz-net/audio/transporter/img__02843.jpg http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii158/alekz-net/audio/transporter/img__02841.jpg o- added Schaffner line filter o- added ferrite rings on the ground wires and digital power supplies o- added vibration damping o- replaced most (at least half) capacitors with Sanyo ones o- the coupling capacitors are replaced with Black Gates o- replaced receptacles o- replaced opamps (very fast OPA637 are considered the best (sorry, the best again ;-) sounding opamps available) in analogue stage The schematics/topology is not changed (except the line filter). [EMAIL PROTECTED] (No picture) o- replaced clocks o- replaced DAC o- modded PS o- only unbalanced version is available (Alex does not disclose the reasons) Basically, he recreated the Transporter, only the computer part is left untouched. Reference AudioMods: http://www.referenceaudiomods.com/images/slim.jpg o- modded PS (diodes and caps) o- replaced SuperRegs with Audiocom regs o- replaced receptacles o- replaced the analogue stage with just two silver wired transformers (? the picture is not big enough to determine how the transformers are actually connected.) -- alekz alekz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13574 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
adamslim;267631 Wrote: Valves may not be intrinsically better than transistors, maybe, but I'm pretty sure transistors -sound- worse than valves ;) NO THEY DON'T! It's all about the circuit, not the devices. You can make anything sound like anything if you want to. I use both. To my ears, modern transistor circuits are typically neutral and lacking in overt character (except for Class A designs, eg Sugden). whereas valve designs vary from neutral to fruity. If anyone thinks you can't make transistor circuits sound like valves ones, they are fooling themselves. This is certainly possible with line level stages. The characteristic even-order harmonic distortion is quite easy to replicate with a FET design. Power amps are more problematic, because it depends exactly what aspect you are trying to emulate. Rectifier sag anyone? Transformer saturation? These are harder to do (but not impossible - The classic soft clipping circuits are not a million miles away in some ways. Microphonic effects are probably the hardest to get close to. The point is...this is all about choice, not right or wrong. Actually that reminds me...you could use an Inguz style modelling DSP plugin to add valve warmth. This sort of thing is used in the studios all the time. Wow - that's a great idea. Maybe I should patent it. Convolving filters to model your fave amp...Quad, Leak, Radford, Krell, Marantz etc. (oh rats its already been done - but not for hi-fi) I'd pay money (say £200-300) for that feature. (God, this cold is getting worse) -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
tomjtx;267439 Wrote: You could have gotten the same result feeding transporter through a tube preamp or buffer. Not quite. The difference will be: o- coupling capacitors o- balanced stage (1x5534 per shoulder, 4 in total) o- unbalanced stage (1x5534 per channel, 2 in total) o- attenuator o- XLR or RCA connector o- cable o- XLR or RCA connector o- current consumed by the analogue stage o- digital noise injected into the analogue stage So, ModWright mod has a big advantage over a separate tube buffer stage. -- alekz alekz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13574 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
adamslim;267631 Wrote: Valves may not be intrinsically better than transistors, maybe, but I'm pretty sure transistors -sound- worse than valves ;) Phil Leigh Wrote: Rant opaqueice Wrote: Rant Crikey calm down calm down, there's me thinking smileys are there for a purpose, to show - in this case - the gentle wink that goes with such a statement. Clearly despite such assistance I need to flag up my poor attempt at humour even more clearly :D -- adamslim Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others SB+, EAR V20, Living Voice OBX-R2s plus some other stuff SB3, Charlize, Harbeth HL-P3ES adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
GuyDebord;267603 Wrote: and the willingness to consume 4000 in credit or cash. the transporter has years of research and development on it, electrical engineers, designers, software engineers, etc. The technology, features and sound is truly worth 2000 euros, the tp reflects innovation and leadership by all standards, and i happily support a product like this. Now, modwright only parasites on all of this and still charges exactly what the tp is worth to modify it with an extremely standard tube stage, in my book, the value of something like that is ZERO and enters the unethical realm/// Im sorry. but auditioning something like this is against my time, logic and principles. Common sense and not audiofool sense tells me its another of many frauds in the industry/// While I respect your point of view, I disagree with one of your key premises. Dissatisfaction with the state-of-the-art, and the willingness to explore alternatives is central to progress in sound reproduction technology. Most of the leading lights in this industry started their careers with soldering irons in their hands and a spark of an idea in their heads. For instance, firms such as Conrad Johnson and Acoustic Research have their roots firmly in the foundation of modding other designer's work. Dan Wright of ModWright Instruments may have roots in modding, but I submit that he is an innovator who is driving the state of the art in the industry. He currently manufactures one of the finest preamplifiers extant, designed and built from scratch, and produced in his own factory. Dan was one of the first to accept and utilize the work of Jack Bybee, to deal with the effects of HF interference in high bandwidth audio circuits. He stands on the shoulders of designers like Alan Kimmel, famed developer of the constant current circuits with whom he partnered in developing Dan's award-winning stand-alone phono stage. The analog stage in his Transporter modification is hardly extremely standard nor is the sound of the resulting product. Willam Zane Johnson of AR is another fine example of a modder who evolved into a manufacturer of renowned high-end audio equipment. I still have one of his modded Dynaco amps of the 60's, where he first achieved a measure of commercial success. Innovations which include deep understanding of materials science, and the sound of individual components/brands/types is central to the toolbox of successful modders. It also represents one of the strongest reasons why modern electronics generally outperform classic designs of earlier decades. Of course, any hacker can start subbing parts and call themselves a modder, so I take your point about parasites. But at the same time, I think this process is central to the evolution of improved sound reproduction equipment, and successful modders are a boon, not a bane to our industry. I think you're sadly mistaken if you believe that modding is antithetical to excellence. Anyway, this is not the discussion I expected, when I originally posted my positive experience with the product! But interesting, and thanks for adding your point of view! Frank -- HalleysComet HalleysComet's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14590 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
I am sure I will be flamed for my beliefs, but I have to say I do find it very interesting that everybody who KNOWS that either the Modwright Transporter is a waste of money or that the same thing could be achieved in another way has never heard one. Yet everybody who has indeed listened seems to have universal praise for the piece. In the end should not some emphasis be placed on how this piece sounds? -- rydenfan rydenfan's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15335 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
rydenfan;267776 Wrote: I am sure I will be flamed for my beliefs, but I have to say I do find it very interesting that everybody who KNOWS that either the Modwright Transporter is a waste of money or that the same thing could be achieved in another way has never heard one. Yet everybody who has indeed listened seems to have universal praise for the piece. In the end should not some emphasis be placed on how this piece sounds? Those of us who have purchased it and are enjoying it are deluded fools who are too easily parted with our money. Wiser heads need to cool down our ardor and point out that we're only listening to our delusions, fueled by self-fulfilling perceptions of improvement. Besides, who do these modders think they are anyway defiling what it took years of the finest engineers talent to develop? grin I'm lovin' it! Frank -- HalleysComet HalleysComet's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14590 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
Timothy Stockman;267790 Wrote: OK, what is non-standard about his analog stage? Does he use a non-standard circuit topology? What is unique in his circuit? I don't have access to a circuit diagram, but from what I can see, and have read, the stage is optimized for class A operation of the 6N1P triodes he uses, and transformer coupled without caps in the direct signal path. The tube rectifier is a 5U4 type that apparently uses some clever (? unspecified?) rectification twists, including bespoke capacitors (teflon/foil in oil capacitors that Dan has made for him) which are said to account for some of the sound quality. At some point I'll dig into it and see if I can figure out the circuit, but right now I'm having too much fun listening! Frank -- HalleysComet HalleysComet's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14590 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
HalleysComet;267786 Wrote: The analog stage in his Transporter modification is hardly extremely standard OK, what is non-standard about his analog stage? Does he use a non-standard circuit topology? What is unique in his circuit? -- Timothy Stockman Timothy Stockman's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8867 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
HalleysComet;267786 Wrote: Dan was one of the first to accept and utilize the work of Jack Bybee, to deal with the effects of HF interference in high bandwidth audio circuits. Really? So much for ModWright, then. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
opaqueice;267827 Wrote: Really? So much for ModWright, then. X2, I didn't realize modwright was into that bybee nonsense. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
opaqueice;267827 Wrote: Really? So much for ModWright, then. Yeah, I know. But really... Jack Bybee was able to develop a successful solution to allow sonar listeners to more reliably detect enemy submarines, using technology he developed that was kept classified by the US Navy for a number of years. So what do you do to monetize this technology when you go to the private sector? Well, the so-called Bybee Purifiers may or may not do anything for your system. Where they seem to matter is where you have very high bandwidth amplification, where high-frequency harmonics have the potential to impact the sonic spectrum. Digital circuitry in particular provides a certain level of nastiness that good design can mitigate, but the Bybee parts in the right application can provide a perceptible improvement. My electrostatic speakers turn out to be good high-frequency receivers. They in turn feed back some of this into my power amps -- or they used to. I perceived this as a certain slight veiled muddiness in the sound. I tried various approaches, such as ferrite clamps (deadened the sound) or sobel filters, but the Bybees seem to do the best job. On the other hand, they don't make a hill of difference in my living room system where I have vintage tube amplification dynamic speaker drivers. YMMV Frank -- HalleysComet HalleysComet's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14590 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
Shredder wrote: I chose the MW TP direct into my amps over the other options, ie nice Dac into nice pre, TP into nice pre, great Dac w/no pre. Give it a listen. I suspect most will like it. If not, you will be able to make an educated judgment. Glad you like it. As far as I'm concerned, anyone can listen to, and like anything, and its fine by me. Its your ears and your money. All the arguing about circuits and parts is hot air. IMHO. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
Frank (aka HalleysComet), I see no reason why you have to defend your choice. If it sounds better (for you), than it's the way to go (for you). Period. I second rydenfan here. That reminds me a couple of real interviews I heard:I have't read the book, but it's bad, I will not read it and I recommend you not to read it too. Don't make yourself look ridiculous (at least). Let's get back to the subject. I have a couple of questions to those who have heard both the stock and modded Transporter. o- Frank, you mentioned that the stock TS sounds(-ed) more detailed. Could you please elaborate? Do you hear less details now? Are they masked by the noise floor? o- Any differences in the sound stage? E.g. sources placement, the air between them, depth/width, etc. o- Did the stock TS sound brighter than the modded one? Did you notice any sibilance? o- Can you compare the dynamics? o- Frank, what does the rest of your system look like? o- Can anybody with a digital camera make some photos of the internals of their modded by Dan TS? I have an Anthony's modded Transporter. This is what I noticed: o- Extremely detailed, revealing, cold and analytical. Probably too revealing and analytical (like the rest of my system). Too often it shows how bad the recordings are. Not how good the music is. o- A bit on the bright side. Hot records will sound stingingly HOT. Sibilants are a bit exaggerated. o- Good dynamics and very low noise floor. You can clearly hear the sound decays. o- Pinpoint sound staging. o- It never sounds messy even during complex passages. o- The images are thin with not enough meat and body. (ML Ascent feature?) So, I'm wondering if I can get the best out of two worlds and let my Anthony modded TS be modified by Dan. Also, it's recommended to pair Logans with tubes. Alex Peychev's mods (though it sounds very interesting) are a no-go for me since his design is non-balanced and I have a fully balanced system. -- alekz alekz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13574 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
HalleysComet;267786 Wrote: While I respect your point of view, I disagree with one of your key premises. Dissatisfaction with the state-of-the-art, and the willingness to explore alternatives is central to progress in sound reproduction technology. Most of the leading lights in this industry started their careers with soldering irons in their hands and a spark of an idea in their heads. For instance, firms such as Conrad Johnson and Acoustic Research have their roots firmly in the foundation of modding other designer's work. Frank thanks for your response. however, i think we have to different ideas of what innovations is. The TP's innovation is not so much on its analogue stage than in its digital circuitry, interface and software working in unison with the whole device. Now, i dont understand how can you call innovation a simple change in the output circuitry. To me this is parasitizing, not innovation. -- GuyDebord Reference3A RoyalMaster monitors biwired with van den Hul Inspiration, REL Strata5. AMPS: Pathos Classic One MKIII's in mono config. ANALOGUE: Clearaudio Ambient CMB, Satisfy Carbon Lyra Helikon SL, ASR MiniBasis SQ preamp, link: WireWorld SilverEclipse 5.2. DIGITAL: SlimDevices Transporter, link: AcousticZen Silver Reference2 XLRs. POWER: Isotek MiniSub GII, Isotek Elite cables (MiniSub, Rel), Siltech SPX30 MKII (Transporter), van den Hul Mainstream (Pathos) van den Hul Mainserver (ASR). GuyDebord's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14587 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
alekz wrote: Too often it shows how bad the recordings are. Not how good the music is. Isn't this a curse of any accurate audiophile system? Whatever you do, don't play CSNY's Four Way Street CD. It is terrible. Out of tune, loudness wars, clipping, etc. I had such grand memories of that as a good album, the CD is unlistenable. I don't blame my transporter for it. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
Pat Farrell;267872 Wrote: alekz wrote: Too often it shows how bad the recordings are. Not how good the music is. Isn't this a curse of any accurate audiophile system? Unfortunately, I have to agree with you. Accurate (but unlistenable) vs distorted (but rather enjoyable) dilemma. The better the system the worse some records sound. But would you prefer to part with some good but almost demolished by sound engineers music? I wish I could switch between the mods and choose whatever sounds subjectively better or according to my current mood. I have only one solution for that - my car audio ;-) Pat Farrell;267872 Wrote: alekz wrote:[color=blue] Out of tune, loudness wars, clipping, etc. I had such grand memories of that as a good album, the CD is unlistenable. And that brings us to this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43045 -- alekz alekz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13574 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
tomjtx;267888 Wrote: I auditioned the maiu mod and ab'd it directly with my stock transporter. What was the rest of the system? Was it the 1st Anthony's iteration with the analogue stage not touched? tomjtx;267888 Wrote: The best thing I could say is he didn't make the modded TP sound worse. Good ;-) And that proves that Sean not quite correct saying that any modification will make TP sound worse. tomjtx;267888 Wrote: What a total waste of money, IMO. I still think it's a very system dependent. -- alekz alekz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13574 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
I auditioned the maiu mod and ab'd it directly with my stock transporter. There was no differance that could be identified by me or 2 other experienced listeners, a recording engineer and a high end dealer. The best thing I could say is he didn't make the modded TP sound worse. What a total waste of money, IMO. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
What if this whole conversation was about some speaker wire? Poster 1 Wow, company X's modification of Logitech's speaker wire has totally transformed the sound! Everything's become so real!!! Poster 2 If a mod on a speaker wire makes that much difference, and the original speaker wire pretty much doesn't add any distortion, that means the modded speaker wire is distorted. Poster 1 Whatever. You haven't heard the mod so what are you talking about. I know it sounds better. I believe that the end result of every system is not perfect. In the majority of cases even the most basic aspect of frequency response is not very neutral. Personally I correct for this with room treatments and DSP. Even so, there are clearly many other aspects to sound such dynamic range, noise, harmonic distortion and no doubt others known and others yet to be discovered, and every set up lacks in some aspects in terms of the end result the listener hears. This means that adding a component which distorts the signal always has a possibility of making the end result better. Some distortions cancel each other out - e.g. DSP is really in fact a distortion...one intended to counteract bad distortions in the end sound. The point is this - I don't think a digital source is an appropriate place to design distortions even if the result happens to be good for some set ups. I like my sources, volume controls, cables etc to be as neutral and transparent as possible. I think speakers and rooms are where you can really mix to taste, because this is where so many compromises have to made anyway due to the physics of it. However, components where only an electric signal exists should just sound as if they are not there. Playing your system at 100% volume should sound the same as playing your system without the preamp, for example. If your system sounds magically better WITH the preamp, it could be it is correcting some bad distortion in the setup but it doesn't mean it is a better preamp in some absolute sense. Darren -- darrenyeats SB3 / Inguz - Krell KAV-300i (pre bypass) - PMC AB-1 Dell laptop - JVC UX-C30 mini system darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
tomjtx;267841 Wrote: X2, I didn't realize modwright was into that bybee nonsense. Yeah, what a disappointment!! -- crooner Customized dual chassis Super Squeezebox EAD DSP-7000 Series III DAC with HDCD and mods. VPI Scout with Benz Micro Glider M2 Marantz 10B tube FM tuner Audio Research PH3, SP16L and VS110 Vandersteen 2Ce signatures, 2W subwoofer. crooner's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3379 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
alekz;267853 Wrote: Let's get back to the subject. I have a couple of questions to those who have heard both the stock and modded Transporter. o- Frank, you mentioned that the stock TS sounds(-ed) more detailed. Could you please elaborate? Do you hear less details now? Are they masked by the noise floor? o- Any differences in the sound stage? E.g. sources placement, the air between them, depth/width, etc. o- Did the stock TS sound brighter than the modded one? Did you notice any sibilance? o- Can you compare the dynamics? o- Frank, what does the rest of your system look like? o- Can anybody with a digital camera make some photos of the internals of their modded by Dan TS? I have an Anthony's modded Transporter. This is what I noticed: o- Extremely detailed, revealing, cold and analytical. Probably too revealing and analytical (like the rest of my system). Too often it shows how bad the recordings are. Not how good the music is. o- A bit on the bright side. Hot records will sound stingingly HOT. Sibilants are a bit exaggerated. o- Good dynamics and very low noise floor. You can clearly hear the sound decays. o- Pinpoint sound staging. o- It never sounds messy even during complex passages. o- The images are thin with not enough meat and body. (ML Ascent feature?) So, I'm wondering if I can get the best out of two worlds and let my Anthony modded TS be modified by Dan. Also, it's recommended to pair Logans with tubes. Alex Peychev's mods (though it sounds very interesting) are a no-go for me since his design is non-balanced and I have a fully balanced system. Great to hear from another Transporter owner who's trying to make it even better ;-) Unfortunately, as Dylan Thomas remarked, We share the barrier of a common language. I think I would have used the same descriptions you used for your modded player to describe the original. So I'm not sure I can answer your questions. I think the main change for me compared to my three weeks with the original Transporter is that the new one is more holographic or solidly real sounding. So before I would notice the detail and say Holy Cow! I've never heard that before, cool! Now I'm listening to Yo-yo Ma playing Dvorak's Cello Concerto, and I'm just swept away. I swear I can recognize Jacqueline du Pre's Strad in Yo-yo's hands. So I would say the detail is definitely there, but that's not what I find myself listening to. My sister is a flute player. Before she moved to Paris, she used to play for the New Jersey Symphony Orchestra and was a sub for the NY Metropolitan Opera. I sat in on a concert she played of the 4th Brandenberg. Today I was listening to the Marlboro Festival Orchestra playing the Brandenberg via the Transporter, and again, I had the feeling that I was right there, hearing the right tone of the silver flute, the wood of the violin bodies, and the occasional scrape of bows. It's the there-ness that I treasure, and that I felt was missing in my original experience with the Transporter. I'm not sure I can break it down into your language, but I'll try. * There's no noise. I can crank it up full, don't hear any tube rush or other noise. * Brightness? H'mmm. The stock unit maybe was a little brighter? It was certainly -- I don't know -- edgier? sounding, perhaps, but that sounds too negative. It wasn't in any way BAD sounding. Maybe a little more in your face like you were seated too close to the musicians? I kept hoping it would break in and settle down, so there was a certain edge about it that I didn't enjoy. A caveat about brightness: an my hearing isn't so fantastic anymore on high frequencies. So I tend to prefer equipment that's brighter than others like, probably because bright doesn't bother me. So it wasn't brightness, that's wrong word. Sorry, I'm struggling to find words for it. * Dynamics I can't talk to. I listened to some large scale orchestral stuff on the original Transporter and it was breathtaking. I haven't really compared the ModWright yet on that source material. I wouldn't expect it to be different, and I wouldn't trust my ability to tell the difference anyway. I'm not sure how relevant my system info will be. Everyone's is so idiosyncratic, it's hard to make generalizations. And I've actually got 4 systems in the house, so it's not even that simple. I've listened to the MW Transporter in two of my systems, so far. My impressions are a composite of those two systems. My music room has electrostats (some early Roger Sanders Eros), with his Innersound amplifiers. Probably not too different than your ML's, I would guess. I use a passive transformer-based preamp there. This system is brutally revealing, but whole-cloth honest. Mostly I listen to vinyl in this system. I have a nice Teres-based record deck, which is my primary source, via a KK phono preamp. In my living room I have Magneplanar 1.6qr speakers which are actively bi-amped via a pair
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
adamslim;267438 Wrote: Thanks for sharing (does that sound like an AA comment? ;) ). Out of interest, why did you go for the Modwright over other modders? I've previously purchased Dan Wright's modified Perpetual Technologies P3A DAC and was very pleased with the result (no tubes!). Frankly, I WAS concerned that this was a waste of money but being an audiophile, I've spent money foolishly in the past ;-) so I know what that feels like! Turns out, Dan's approach made a piece of gear that I didn't want to spend my time listening to into a piece of gear that I spend all my time listening to. That's worth it to me. I have four different audio systems in my home, including a system in the bedroom, living room, home theatre, and my music room. The last is where I do my serious listening, and the MW Transporter has taken up home there. And for another poster, no, you can't get the same result running thru a tube buffer. BTDT. But spending money and results are two different things (unfortunately). In this instance, I got results that were worth it to me, so I consider it a good investment in my musical pleasure. I probably spend $6-7,000 per year on this hobby --mostly for music and concert tickets/travel -- so it wasn't THAT big a deal for me money-wise. But it certainly hits my hot buttons. I've never been thrilled with digital music, partly because I'm an old fart with nearly 2,000 LP's, so that's the bulk of my listening. But I'm impressed that the Transporter does so well, and I do think the Modwright approach, which modifies none of the front end but only addresses limitations in the analogue stage, is a net improvement. Use your own ears, then let me know what you think? Frank -- HalleysComet HalleysComet's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14590 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
Thanks for sharing (does that sound like an AA comment? ;) ). Out of interest, why did you go for the Modwright over other modders? -- adamslim Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others SB+, EAR V20, Living Voice OBX-R2s plus some other stuff SB3, Charlize, Harbeth HL-P3ES adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
You could have gotten the same result feeding transporter through a tube preamp or buffer. I love tubes also but it is a shame you wasted that money when you could have gotten the same results for a fraction of the price. It is getting a bit tiresome listening to talk about the illusory improvements modded TP's make posted ,IMO, rudely. on the slim forums. Modwright has it's own forum for that. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
tomjtx;267439 Wrote: You could have gotten the same result feeding transporter through a tube preamp or buffer. I love tubes also but it is a shame you wasted that money when you could have gotten the same results for a fraction of the price. It is getting a bit tiresome listening to talk about the illusory improvements modded TP's make posted ,IMO, rudely. on the slim forums. Modwright has it's own forum for that. You could have gotten a better result by not posting. -- adamslim Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others SB+, EAR V20, Living Voice OBX-R2s plus some other stuff SB3, Charlize, Harbeth HL-P3ES adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?
adamslim;267440 Wrote: You could have gotten a better result by not posting. Now now, Adam, I should be allowed a few cranky posts per month :-) Seriously though, I would never post on the Modwright forum about what a waste it is to mod the TP. I would consider that rude and unnecessary behavior. It seems we disagree on that point and that's OK by me. To the OP, you can get the sonic signature of tubes with a buffer or preamp. And, IMO , the results will be nearly identical. However, we can just agree to disagree. I had the chance to be the first to get the modwright mod at half price as the experimental unit. I decided not to because the TP sounds so good it didn't seem worth the money even at 1/2 price. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43269 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
