(OT) CF vs. Asp vs. etc.
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO THIS THREAD ON CF-TALK. I've been asked to update the HoF document on CF vs. Asp. I'm not really doing anything with .Net so it's going to be somewhat of a problem. A perfect solution is to ask the community for help. I'd like to ask anyone who wants to help define the categories of difference and the actual differences to come over to the CF-OT list so we can discuss this and build a good list. I'd rather not do it here as it'll be long, drawn out, and have very little to do with CF tech that will be useful to most. Basically, it's a thread perfectly designed for the CF-OT list. You can subscribe to the CF-OT list by going to the main list page (http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/), selecting that list and hitting the subscribe button. If your not already signed into HoF, you'll have to do that as well (http://www.houseoffusion.com/signin). There are a number of other new lists on the side as well for your discussion pleasure. :) p.s. Any debate about this topic being on or off topic for CF-Talk should also take place there. PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO THIS THREAD ON CF-TALK. Thank you. Michael Dinowitz Master of the House of Fusion http://www.houseoffusion.com ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
CF vs ASP
OK...I know I'm going to get beat-up over this question, but... Being new at this, I am trying to determine why I should learn CF over ASP (or vice versa). Any input would be appreciated. Thanks. Craig
RE: CF vs ASP
Being new at this, I am trying to determine why I should learn CF over ASP (or vice versa). http://www.macromedia.com/software/coldfusion/productinfo/competitive/ Tom Chiverton You don't have to be a mad scientist to believe in ColdFusion ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
RE: CF vs ASP
I think you would be better off learning JSP(java server pages) and some j2ee. Why? Because what CFMX does is translate CFML pages into some servlets (correct me if I am wrong) so why learning CF(providing you don't know it already) when you can learn Java(JSP and stuff). As I see it CF is far from beating Java(that's why they choose to use java in their very own CF) Well, I have quite some experience with CF(more than 3 years) and I didn't upgrade to CFMX and I will never do it. Why not ASP? Well because if you do that you are stuck with windows. If that is not a problem go for it :) Marius Burz ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
RE: CF vs ASP
I'm hard pressed not to move all of my future development to .Net. AS much as I love CF and how well I know it, Being a Windows application developer, I can't not switch to .NET it will allow me to have all of our programmers on 1 platforma dn deploy our applications in whatever enviroment that we see fit Hate to say it but my days on the list are numbered... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 9:03 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs ASP I think you would be better off learning JSP(java server pages) and some j2ee. Why? Because what CFMX does is translate CFML pages into some servlets (correct me if I am wrong) so why learning CF(providing you don't know it already) when you can learn Java(JSP and stuff). As I see it CF is far from beating Java(that's why they choose to use java in their very own CF) Well, I have quite some experience with CF(more than 3 years) and I didn't upgrade to CFMX and I will never do it. Why not ASP? Well because if you do that you are stuck with windows. If that is not a problem go for it :) Marius Burz ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: CF vs ASP
Well, Kim... Keep in mind that you can still be a .NET guru and live in harmony with CF!!! I, too, am a Windows App Developer, and have been using .NET for about 2 years now (only 5 months in a production environment). I use CFMX in conjunction with .NET with great success. I still use CF for internet/intranet development (because of it's ease of use and development), Asp.NET for heavy heavy intranet apps, and C# for custom ASP.NET controls and for regular application development. I also make use of .NET Remoting and some COM wrapping (with C#) as well, and am looking in Windows CE.NET development as well. With the 2 together (plus Flash for some PocketPC development), I couldn't be happier (or more productive) than I am right now :-) - Gary Sullivan -Original Message- From: Kris Pilles [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 9:07 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs ASP I'm hard pressed not to move all of my future development to .Net. AS much as I love CF and how well I know it, Being a Windows application developer, I can't not switch to .NET it will allow me to have all of our programmers on 1 platforma dn deploy our applications in whatever enviroment that we see fit Hate to say it but my days on the list are numbered... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 9:03 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs ASP I think you would be better off learning JSP(java server pages) and some j2ee. Why? Because what CFMX does is translate CFML pages into some servlets (correct me if I am wrong) so why learning CF(providing you don't know it already) when you can learn Java(JSP and stuff). As I see it CF is far from beating Java(that's why they choose to use java in their very own CF) Well, I have quite some experience with CF(more than 3 years) and I didn't upgrade to CFMX and I will never do it. Why not ASP? Well because if you do that you are stuck with windows. If that is not a problem go for it :) Marius Burz ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
RE: CF vs ASP
Good point. -Original Message- From: Gary W. Sullivan II [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 9:18 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs ASP Well, Kim... Keep in mind that you can still be a .NET guru and live in harmony with CF!!! I, too, am a Windows App Developer, and have been using .NET for about 2 years now (only 5 months in a production environment). I use CFMX in conjunction with .NET with great success. I still use CF for internet/intranet development (because of it's ease of use and development), Asp.NET for heavy heavy intranet apps, and C# for custom ASP.NET controls and for regular application development. I also make use of .NET Remoting and some COM wrapping (with C#) as well, and am looking in Windows CE.NET development as well. With the 2 together (plus Flash for some PocketPC development), I couldn't be happier (or more productive) than I am right now :-) - Gary Sullivan -Original Message- From: Kris Pilles [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 9:07 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs ASP I'm hard pressed not to move all of my future development to .Net. AS much as I love CF and how well I know it, Being a Windows application developer, I can't not switch to .NET it will allow me to have all of our programmers on 1 platforma dn deploy our applications in whatever enviroment that we see fit Hate to say it but my days on the list are numbered... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 9:03 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs ASP I think you would be better off learning JSP(java server pages) and some j2ee. Why? Because what CFMX does is translate CFML pages into some servlets (correct me if I am wrong) so why learning CF(providing you don't know it already) when you can learn Java(JSP and stuff). As I see it CF is far from beating Java(that's why they choose to use java in their very own CF) Well, I have quite some experience with CF(more than 3 years) and I didn't upgrade to CFMX and I will never do it. Why not ASP? Well because if you do that you are stuck with windows. If that is not a problem go for it :) Marius Burz ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: CF vs ASP
I definitely agree that it is important to know Java and J2EE nowadays. But, you can't compare learning java and CFML, they are two completely different things. Java and especially J2EE is incredibly complex and requires weeks/month of training to start getting to know parts of it. JSP (just a small part of J2EE) requires good knowledges of Java and is still at a prehistoric stage in terms of functionality and development compared to the richness of CFML and ASP.NET (event if it is getting better with JSTL and the future implementation of JSP). CFML is still unbeatable in terms of productivity and ease of use. It is pity to say I didn't upgrade to CFMX and I will never do it. How can you judge something if you haven't tried it? In fact, CFMX can be a very good choice for the presentation layer of a big J2EE app. Tried to build a small app with JSP and basic JavaBeans then do the same with CFML and CFCs... you'll we see the difference in terms of productivity... (and then add a rich client with Flash Remoting!) Benoit Hediard www.benorama.com -Message d'origine- De : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Envoyé : mercredi 9 octobre 2002 15:03 À : CF-Talk Objet : RE: CF vs ASP I think you would be better off learning JSP(java server pages) and some j2ee. Why? Because what CFMX does is translate CFML pages into some servlets (correct me if I am wrong) so why learning CF(providing you don't know it already) when you can learn Java(JSP and stuff). As I see it CF is far from beating Java(that's why they choose to use java in their very own CF) Well, I have quite some experience with CF(more than 3 years) and I didn't upgrade to CFMX and I will never do it. Why not ASP? Well because if you do that you are stuck with windows. If that is not a problem go for it :) Marius Burz ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: CF vs ASP
Oh my, the reasons are endless. Here is my $.0002 1. ASP has (last time I checked) awful access to database info. The steps to do a simple query were nuts. CF database access is much more intuitive. 2. A lot easier to learn, if you don't know VB or some other programming language - and even if you do :) 3. CF Runs on a lot of platforms, so you don't wind up looking for a job that has we are a microsoft shop in it. Your skills are a bit more portable. 4. MX - while it is pissing me off right now - has really nice XML integration. So I foresee people working with XML in CF **A LOT** easier then ASP. However, I am simply a lowly coder - So I encourage you to learn more about both languages. -Original Message- From: Howell Craig H Civ WRALC/LEEA [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 4:59 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: CF vs ASP OK...I know I'm going to get beat-up over this question, but... Being new at this, I am trying to determine why I should learn CF over ASP (or vice versa). Any input would be appreciated. Thanks. Craig ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: CF vs ASP
Ack! Contrary to that opinion I'd start in the CF realm first for the simple fact of a more forgiving learning curve. You can be productive in much less time. As for touting a pure JSP/Java approach...Just takes longer and has a lot more prerequisites. Although there's most definitely a time and place for it of course...really depends on what you're doing. CF is a layer of abstraction...less to worry about...sure there's an associated cost to that but for many projects that's irrelevant...plus there's nothing to stop you from dipping down into a lower level language to get the job done. Stace -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 9:03 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs ASP I think you would be better off learning JSP(java server pages) and some j2ee. Why? Because what CFMX does is translate CFML pages into some servlets (correct me if I am wrong) so why learning CF(providing you don't know it already) when you can learn Java(JSP and stuff). As I see it CF is far from beating Java(that's why they choose to use java in their very own CF) Well, I have quite some experience with CF(more than 3 years) and I didn't upgrade to CFMX and I will never do it. Why not ASP? Well because if you do that you are stuck with windows. If that is not a problem go for it :) Marius Burz ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
Re: CF vs. ASP
Rizal Firmansyah wrote: WOW! Jochem, this is weird. First i thought the first time cfmail being executed within .cfm script, it creates an email-msg file containing all data, including attachments if any. No, just a reference to the attachment. But apparently it doesn't :( Do you know if this particular behaviour occur in CF 5? or just CFMX? This is a change in the behaviour from CF 5 to CF MX. In CF 5 it stored everything in the spooled file, including headers and attachments. Not anymore. Jochem __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: CF vs. ASP
Matt Liotta wrote: The problem here is that cfmail doesn't block while the file is in the spool. You are either going to need to adapt your code to support some sort of asynchronous events or use a mail library you can serialize e.g. javax.mail. Hence my comment about first figuring out how CF worked and then deciding I needed something else and figuring out how that worked. Jochem __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
-Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Attempting to show that CF is a more rabid development platform than ASP... Petco* has low-cost clinics every two weeks. You seem to be frothing at the mouth. cf_tongueInCheek * Large pet supply chain in the U.S. __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
Ok, I think it's time for me to toss in my 2 cents (.75 cents Canadian). I am replying now, because most of this discussion took place after I went home yesterday. Truth is, I am an ASP developer. I have been for quite some time. I have been developing ASP since version 1.0 and have written some Big, Bad A** apps out there being used by some Fortune 500 firms (Not UPS mind you). I first learned CF in College (part of an internet development class covering CF, Java and other things). I thought it was a shame we didn't learn any ASP, so I approached my professor about it. I explained to him that I knew I was a proficient programmer (he knew as well from previous classes) and asked if I could do our database project in ASP instead of Cold Fusion. When each class got up to explain their code, it was pretty my the same, cfloop here, cfquery there... I got up and showed the ASP code off and the quicker response time (this was in the days of ASP 2.0 vs. CF 2.0, the book we used was BF's Web application Construction Kit 2nd Ed.) I was sold on ASP from that day forward and vowed never to use CF again. I started my own business and things went well for a while. Then I had a major collapse in the market I was trying to sell in and needed to find a steady job while still doing after hours work. UPS offered me a job as a Systems Management Engineer. When I started I wondered, Why did they hire me? I'm an MCSE, MCT and a lot of other TLA's and FLA's. But I had no experience in Tivoli and very little in Cold Fusion. Now, 7 months later, I consider myself very good in Cold Fusion and still learning Tivoli (my project is in web interfaces to Tivoli). In fact, I just finished a major component using CF. Having some perspective on the matter, I still think I like ASP a little better, but that's my opinion. I consider myself almost a VB expert (working on some articles for various M$ programming Mags.), so I like the granularity of ASP. If I had the tools of ASP and CF at my disposal (ASP is banned at UPS), I'd have to look at my situation. If I need something quick and easy and not a lot of fine control, I'd do it in CF easily. If I have more time and need finer control of details, I'd do it in ASP. I have found that most, if not everything that I can do in ASP, I can do in CF. In fact, I'm pushing my team to buy CF 5 or MX and get me out from the heel of CF 4.0. I think I misjudged CF some years ago, but that was when CF didn't look that good to me. (In fact, I'm working on some ideas of Fusebox for ASP.Net myself) One last thing to add to my rant. I think the code on sending e-mail was very skewed. To someone that doesn't know CF very well, it looks like it takes 25+ lines to do what CF does in 1. The code should have been more a comparison as follows: Set MyMail = CreateObject(CDONTS.NewMail) MyMail.From = [EMAIL PROTECTED] MyMail.To = [EMAIL PROTECTED] MyMail.Subject = Information Request MyMail.BodyFormat = 1 'plain text MyMail.MailFormat = 1 'plain text MyMail.Body = MsgText MyMail.Send Set MyMail = Nothing cfmail to= from= server= subject=some stuff here./cfmail That some stuff here encompasses a lot of code to make the body of the e-mail when comparing the two. (*Any opinions expressed are mine and mine alone, they do not reflect those of my employers) Rob Edwards Phone: (502) 359-1627 Systems Management Tools Pager: (502) 478-1116 United Parcel Service Fax:(502) 359-0094 EMail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (2B || !2B) == ? -Original Message- From: Dick Applebaum [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 11:28 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP Matt I think the problem is that the alternative being discussed is from MSoft and the natural reaction is to barf if something is being shoved down your throat -- common sense and merits adide! Dick On Monday, August 26, 2002, at 06:20 PM, Matt Liotta wrote: People on this list are amazing. I haven't pointed out anything that is wrong with CF in this thread. I have simply pointed out that sometimes other solutions are better, which is far from hating CF. __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
I know the whole CF and why people are using it issue has been hashed out quite a bit but I would like to add my two cents coming from a different background than most web developers. I started my programmer career with C. In C you have absolute control over everything going on in your program. You have a veritable dictatorship over what your program is doing. Yes the code takes longer to write and it is more prone to errors due to some of that very control you have. Most programmers have a hard time with some of the concepts in C (Pointers, Memory Allocation). Next I found C++ and ColdFusion practically at the same time. From day one I knew ColdFusion was a good tool. After working for about a year building web applications I knew ColdFusion was a *great* tool for building most web applications. This is in the 2.0 days, so keep that in mind. I already wanted to do things CF simply could not do, or did not do the way a project needed them to. When I had to I fell back on my C programming skills to create a CFX tag to give me the control I needed over my environment to accomplish my job. It is not CFs fault, it was just not equipped with the appropriate tools built-in, that is all. I did not curse CF. By then I understood very well what CF could and could not do. I did not expect it to do more than it should. For as long as I can remember there have been behaviors and functionalities in CF that did not do everything the way I needed for a particular task. Trying to *GET* CF to emulate the behavior or functionality would take more time and be less appropriate than just using the right language. (Usually C since there were not a ton of options in the 2.0 days). I have been doing CF since the 2.0 days and there are *STILL* things in CF that you simply need to have more control over. CF might do 99% of your job and it is the natural pick for a moderately complex web app or as a presentation layer for practically any web app. There might be this one piece of functionality that is not working right, and with the proper skill set and toolset you can make it work right in less time than you can use the wrong tool (CF) to finish up that one last bit of functionality. This is all Matt has been saying, there are times when you *NEED* the control. Saying that anything can be done given the time and money seems a little asinine to me. How much time? What about deadlines? Give me a unlimited resources and 2 or 3 years and I can assemble a team to build almost any web app too. The point is most of us don't have unlimited time, or money, so we all want to be as efficient is possible. The right tools in the right situation make that possible. When CF *IS* the only tool considered Jeremy __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: CF vs. ASP
- Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] People on this list are amazing. I haven't pointed out anything that is wrong with CF in this thread. I have simply pointed out that sometimes other solutions are better, which is far from hating CF. --- Not got through all this thread yet, but I just have to point out: People on this list? Excuse me! A little ironic that you're trying to respond to someone who's distorting your views with sweeping generalisations. It'd help the argument if you were a little less sweeping with the comeback! ;-) - Gyrus - [EMAIL PROTECTED] work: http://www.tengai.co.uk play: http://www.norlonto.net - PGP key available __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
Which also proves my point. Thank you. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ V: 415-577-8070 F: 415-341-8906 P: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 3:07 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP Matt Liotta wrote: The problem here is that cfmail doesn't block while the file is in the spool. You are either going to need to adapt your code to support some sort of asynchronous events or use a mail library you can serialize e.g. javax.mail. Hence my comment about first figuring out how CF worked and then deciding I needed something else and figuring out how that worked. Jochem __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
Sorry, I seem to generate a good deal of offlist email that I factor into my responses. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ V: 415-577-8070 F: 415-341-8906 P: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Gyrus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 6:54 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] People on this list are amazing. I haven't pointed out anything that is wrong with CF in this thread. I have simply pointed out that sometimes other solutions are better, which is far from hating CF. --- Not got through all this thread yet, but I just have to point out: People on this list? Excuse me! A little ironic that you're trying to respond to someone who's distorting your views with sweeping generalisations. It'd help the argument if you were a little less sweeping with the comeback! ;-) - Gyrus - [EMAIL PROTECTED] work: http://www.tengai.co.uk play: http://www.norlonto.net - PGP key available __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: CF vs. ASP
Knew this was going to be a big thread... __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: CF vs. ASP
- Original Message - From: Jacob [EMAIL PROTECTED] Knew this was going to be a big thread... --- How about CFvsASP-Talk !! ;-) - Gyrus - [EMAIL PROTECTED] work: http://www.tengai.co.uk play: http://www.norlonto.net - PGP key available __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: CF vs. ASP
Very well said... use appropriate tool for the situation... you can develop a web application in C++/Javathey are great tools but aimed to broad spectrum programming not RAD/Web... as in the case what the industry demands. CF was developed as web application tool and does a great job for most things that are related to web application development. ASP was just an extention of IIS to start with and has progressed to .NET/aspx.. good... but not strictly targetted to Web RAD and not portable. Joe - Original Message - From: Jeremy Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 9:31 AM Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP I know the whole CF and why people are using it issue has been hashed out quite a bit but I would like to add my two cents coming from a different background than most web developers. I started my programmer career with C. In C you have absolute control over everything going on in your program. You have a veritable dictatorship over what your program is doing. Yes the code takes longer to write and it is more prone to errors due to some of that very control you have. Most programmers have a hard time with some of the concepts in C (Pointers, Memory Allocation). Next I found C++ and ColdFusion practically at the same time. From day one I knew ColdFusion was a good tool. After working for about a year building web applications I knew ColdFusion was a *great* tool for building most web applications. This is in the 2.0 days, so keep that in mind. I already wanted to do things CF simply could not do, or did not do the way a project needed them to. When I had to I fell back on my C programming skills to create a CFX tag to give me the control I needed over my environment to accomplish my job. It is not CFs fault, it was just not equipped with the appropriate tools built-in, that is all. I did not curse CF. By then I understood very well what CF could and could not do. I did not expect it to do more than it should. For as long as I can remember there have been behaviors and functionalities in CF that did not do everything the way I needed for a particular task. Trying to *GET* CF to emulate the behavior or functionality would take more time and be less appropriate than just using the right language. (Usually C since there were not a ton of options in the 2.0 days). I have been doing CF since the 2.0 days and there are *STILL* things in CF that you simply need to have more control over. CF might do 99% of your job and it is the natural pick for a moderately complex web app or as a presentation layer for practically any web app. There might be this one piece of functionality that is not working right, and with the proper skill set and toolset you can make it work right in less time than you can use the wrong tool (CF) to finish up that one last bit of functionality. This is all Matt has been saying, there are times when you *NEED* the control. Saying that anything can be done given the time and money seems a little asinine to me. How much time? What about deadlines? Give me a unlimited resources and 2 or 3 years and I can assemble a team to build almost any web app too. The point is most of us don't have unlimited time, or money, so we all want to be as efficient is possible. The right tools in the right situation make that possible. When CF *IS* the only tool considered Jeremy __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: CF vs. ASP
Matt I think we all agree that we should use the best tool for the job. The point everyone is trying to convey to you is that CF is the best tool for the job more often than ASP (or PHP etc.). This is because it does dang near everything we want and when it doesn't more than likely someone has already written a custom tag or UDF to handle it. We're all rightlets go for a beer (Canadian beer that is) ;-) Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. t. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Macromedia Associate Partner www.macromedia.com - Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group Founder Director www.cfug-vancouverisland.com - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 6:22 PM Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP Sure... but the same could be said about ANY programming language. But this isn't ANY-Talk. This is CF-Talk and we are discussing CF vs. ASP, which makes it relevant. I certainly don't believe ColdFusion is the ultimate solution for EVERY job, just like I don't use a pipe wrench when I really need a hammer. UNLESS the pipe wrench will fix my problem faster than it would take me to get up, go to the garage, and get the hammer. :-) That is a great attitude! Now if only the rest of the list would feel the same way. -Matt __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
I'm not necessarily agreeing with everything that Matt Liotta says but, gosh, is wouldn't go so far as to say that CF is the best tool for the job more often than not. It's a good tool for small-medium sized websites, and it's nice and fast dev time, but there are many instances that CF is not necessarily the best tool for the job, although it can be used. Intranets are one thing I can think of. I have an intranet here that I wrote last year using CF - because I am most experienced at CF. However, I believe that had I written it in ASP, I would have not encountered the numerous problems and trials that using COM through CF gives us. I have actually written one page in CF that calls an ASP page because ASP does the job quicker and easier. I love CF, I used to work for Allaire, but let's not kid ourselves and think that CF is the hammer that can strike all the nails. Matthew Small IT Supervisor Showstopper National Dance Competitions 3660 Old Kings Hwy Murrells Inlet, SC 29576 843-357-1847 http://www.showstopperonline.com -Original Message- From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 11:49 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP Matt I think we all agree that we should use the best tool for the job. The point everyone is trying to convey to you is that CF is the best tool for the job more often than ASP (or PHP etc.). This is because it does dang near everything we want and when it doesn't more than likely someone has already written a custom tag or UDF to handle it. We're all rightlets go for a beer (Canadian beer that is) ;-) Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. t. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Macromedia Associate Partner www.macromedia.com - Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group Founder Director www.cfug-vancouverisland.com - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 6:22 PM Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP Sure... but the same could be said about ANY programming language. But this isn't ANY-Talk. This is CF-Talk and we are discussing CF vs. ASP, which makes it relevant. I certainly don't believe ColdFusion is the ultimate solution for EVERY job, just like I don't use a pipe wrench when I really need a hammer. UNLESS the pipe wrench will fix my problem faster than it would take me to get up, go to the garage, and get the hammer. :-) That is a great attitude! Now if only the rest of the list would feel the same way. -Matt __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
Thanks Bruce, this was very good advice. I never thought this would start such an animated discussion but I'm glad I asked, I'm definitely continuing with learning outside of CF (along side of CF, not instead - I still think CF is above the rest - it definitely has one of the better mailing lists for it!) Jimmy -Original Message- From: Bruce Sorge [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 6:28 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP I know that I am chiming in late here, but here goes. Learning another language can never hurt. Case in point. I put all of my eggs in one basket and stuck to just CF. Although I have a good job that pays very well, I am finding that I am starting to regret limiting myself to just CF. Currently our Intranet in 98% CF, and our Portal is 99% ASP (currently being converted to ASP.net). The problem that I see is that all of the upper management is totally sold on .net and we have to keep justifying why we need CF. What I see is that I may become somewhat of an anachronism if I do not do something about it, so I am learning .net and PHP to improve job security (PHP is really for my side work), and let us not forget the all important marketability aspect of being a programmer. -Original Message- From: Perez, Jimmy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 1:44 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: CF vs. ASP Hello all, I am a CF certified developer (missed advanced by three points) but am thinking of expanding my horizons/marketability. I have started getting up to speed in ASP/VBScript but the question keeps coming up: should I even spend any time doing this or should I just concentrate on CF? The more e-mails I read in this list, the more I realize how powerful CF is, but should I keep all my eggs in one basket so to speak? Any good advice? TIA Jimmy __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
Would that be with the CFSHUTTLE tag? Mr. Sulu, instantiate the fuel tank separation CFC! -Original Message- From: Tony Weeg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 7:39 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP sorry, i didnt mean to come across like that, if you read. as i quote myself. now, amazon, ill give that to ya, nice shopping cart system, but the truth is, i could have done those, given the time, the resources and the money, i could have easily programmed, everything in any of those... WITH THE TIME, THE RESOURCES, AND THE MONEY any of us here could ;) in fact, i bet, if a company who could hire the talent pool of this talk list, collectively, shoot, we could probably figure out a way to program the shuttles next trip to the moon using cf, of course ;) tony -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 8:28 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP but, to put it blatantly honest, its all about perspective... in my mind, if im not building the biggest baddest web apps in the world, then im building nothing...and who is the judge of that? me. and really, only me. thanks. So if I hire you to create hello world in CF, will it be the biggest baddest wed app in the world? There's perspective and then there's... Some web apps are big and bad and others... well... they're not! now, amazon, ill give that to ya, nice shopping cart system, but the truth is, i could have done those, given the time, the resources and the money, i could have easily programmed, everything in any of those, i just wasnt given the chance. so, to wit...im here chillin and grillin on delmarva, sittin on the chesapeake bay building my own BAD A** web apps, sitting back, laughing, making nice cake! with, can you guess ladies and gentsCF Have you seen the Amazon.com taxonomy and recommendation engine? Something like that is actually really hard to do and generally takes some really smart people working as a team to pull it off. I may have a bigger ego than most when it comes to programming, but I wouldn't call the Amazon.com web app easy. -Matt __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
But if you wanted a job with the Toyota dealer and his cars were electric and you were only exposed to diesel engines, you would have to cross that job off your list. But as was stated before you had at least dabbled a little here and there (even if it was with 101 science projects from Radio Shack) you might have your foot in the door with the I am flexible and constantly expand my horizons argument. -Original Message- From: Tony Weeg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 5:36 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP thank you bryan! let matt be matt, i kinda was waiting for his response, i knew it would be very matt ;-) anyhow, the truth of the matter is thisif i can develop rich cf applications for companies in half the time, that it might take an asp coder to do it, with half the code, i will, and until something better comes along, thats what im doing... of course there is other code to the cfmail tag, what idiot wouldnt know that? but the point was, from a developers prospective, why waste your time on asp or php or anything like that, when you can simply make the BIGGEST BADDEST web apps in the world, with an easy to use tag based markup language. i didnt ask the toyota dealer if he used craftsman tools to build my celica, i simply asked him if it worked, and when i turned the ignition on, it worked, i was pleased. tony -Original Message- From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 5:10 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP Matt I think Tony is bang on. Yes the additinal code may be hidden from us, but because of that fact we can develop faster and reduce development costs for clients. That said I still think it's good to know a few langauges and that's why I'm starting on ASP.NET, Java, and a smidge of PHP to round it outgeesh I sound like a geek don't I ;-) Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. t. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Macromedia Associate Partner www.macromedia.com - Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group Founder Director www.cfug-vancouverisland.com - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 1:47 PM Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP Oh please! You're comparing apples to oranges. Just because all of the cfmail code is hidden from you; it doesn't mean it isn't there. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ V: 415-577-8070 F: 415-341-8906 P: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Tony Weeg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 1:35 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP CASE IN POINT TOO MANY LINES/CHARACTERS OF BS VBSHIT CODE Dim MyMail Dim MsgText Set MsgText = Request.Form(FirstName) + + Request.Form(LastName) + has requested more information. Set MsgText = MsgText + Please contact them at + Request.Form(Phone) Set MsgText = MsgText + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(FirstName) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(LastName) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Addr1) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Addr2) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(City) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(State) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(ZIP) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Email) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Phone) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Comments) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(NoMkt) + VBCrLf Set MyMail = CreateObject(CDONTS.NewMail) MyMail.From = [EMAIL PROTECTED] MyMail.To = [EMAIL PROTECTED] MyMail.Subject = Information Request MyMail.BodyFormat = 1 'plain text MyMail.MailFormat = 1 'plain text MyMail.Body = MsgText MyMail.Send Set MyMail = Nothing !END CASE IN POINT! Compared to this.. cfmail to= from= server= subject=some stuff here./cfmail there is no comparison, the only thing we need to do with asp is Port it to CFML so that our clients get what they deserve! ..tony Tony Weeg Senior Web Developer Information System Design Navtrak, Inc. Fleet Management Solutions www.navtrak.net 410.548.2337 -Original Message- From: Perez, Jimmy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 4:11 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP As long as the price is right... :) Thanks -Original Message- From: Alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 2:56 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP Use the right tool for the job. And if you have
Re: CF vs. ASP
On Tuesday, August 27, 2002, at 09:11 , Matthew R. Small wrote: Intranets are one thing I can think of. I have an intranet here that I wrote last year using CF - because I am most experienced at CF. However, I believe that had I written it in ASP, I would have not encountered the numerous problems and trials that using COM through CF gives us. I have actually written one page in CF that calls an ASP page because ASP does the job quicker and easier. But COM has nothing to do with Intranet. CF is a great tool for writing Intranets (we're in the process of converting our legacy ASP-based Intranet to CF). I agree that if your web application is heavily dependent on COM then you need to think carefully about CF because of issues with COM (historically and currently). If your web application doesn't need COM - and a lot do not - then CF is a very good tool that doesn't need to be restricted to small-medium sized sites. After all, we're rewriting macromedia.com using CFMX and we get about 6m age views a day. Remember: using the best tool for the tool is not about picking just one technology and using it for the whole job, it's about picking the right tool for each part of the job and integrating the whole (with the caveat that the integration effort may be sufficiently high that the second best tool for one job might mean less integration - and therefore be a better choice). CFMX is very good at integration - lots of high-level tags to access other systems as well as Java integration - so the price of using using CF is low from an integration p.o.v. Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
Well, just to put your comments in perspective, let me ask a question: Did you research other technologies to see if there was one better suited to the need of your intranet? Matthew Small IT Supervisor Showstopper National Dance Competitions 3660 Old Kings Hwy Murrells Inlet, SC 29576 843-357-1847 http://www.showstopperonline.com -Original Message- From: Sean A Corfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 1:21 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP On Tuesday, August 27, 2002, at 09:11 , Matthew R. Small wrote: Intranets are one thing I can think of. I have an intranet here that I wrote last year using CF - because I am most experienced at CF. However, I believe that had I written it in ASP, I would have not encountered the numerous problems and trials that using COM through CF gives us. I have actually written one page in CF that calls an ASP page because ASP does the job quicker and easier. But COM has nothing to do with Intranet. CF is a great tool for writing Intranets (we're in the process of converting our legacy ASP-based Intranet to CF). I agree that if your web application is heavily dependent on COM then you need to think carefully about CF because of issues with COM (historically and currently). If your web application doesn't need COM - and a lot do not - then CF is a very good tool that doesn't need to be restricted to small-medium sized sites. After all, we're rewriting macromedia.com using CFMX and we get about 6m age views a day. Remember: using the best tool for the tool is not about picking just one technology and using it for the whole job, it's about picking the right tool for each part of the job and integrating the whole (with the caveat that the integration effort may be sufficiently high that the second best tool for one job might mean less integration - and therefore be a better choice). CFMX is very good at integration - lots of high-level tags to access other systems as well as Java integration - so the price of using using CF is low from an integration p.o.v. Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: CF vs. ASP
On Tuesday, August 27, 2002, at 11:25 , Matthew R. Small wrote: Well, just to put your comments in perspective, let me ask a question: Did you research other technologies to see if there was one better suited to the need of your intranet? Yes, we already use BroadVision, Perl CGI, ASP... we compared those to CF for our new intranet and chose CF. Admittedly, the fact that we *make* CF was also a factor... :) That said, CF - and the skills needed for it - is a much more cost-effective approach for us. Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
CF vs. ASP
Hello all, I am a CF certified developer (missed advanced by three points) but am thinking of expanding my horizons/marketability. I have started getting up to speed in ASP/VBScript but the question keeps coming up: should I even spend any time doing this or should I just concentrate on CF? The more e-mails I read in this list, the more I realize how powerful CF is, but should I keep all my eggs in one basket so to speak? Any good advice? TIA Jimmy __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: CF vs. ASP
Use the right tool for the job. And if you have to ask if you should keep all your eggs in one basket then I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, Perez, Jimmy wrote: Hello all, I am a CF certified developer (missed advanced by three points) but am thinking of expanding my horizons/marketability. I have started getting up to speed in ASP/VBScript but the question keeps coming up: should I even spend any time doing this or should I just concentrate on CF? The more e-mails I read in this list, the more I realize how powerful CF is, but should I keep all my eggs in one basket so to speak? Any good advice? TIA Jimmy __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
as much as we all love CF, it is NEVER a good idea to put all your eggs in one basket. let me repeat that for emphasis. IT IS NEVER A GOOD IDEA TO KEEP ALL YOUR EGGS IN ONE BASKET. in my own experience, companies are more likely to be in favor of someone with one or two specialties, but with a smattering of other things the candidat is good at, but not expert. as a former hirer myself, it says to me that the person is not a all problems are nails person, and is willing to look at the best way to get the job done, rather than the best way to use the one thing i know to do the job. there are light years of difference between the two. chris olive -Original Message- From: Perez, Jimmy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 3:44 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: CF vs. ASP Hello all, I am a CF certified developer (missed advanced by three points) but am thinking of expanding my horizons/marketability. I have started getting up to speed in ASP/VBScript but the question keeps coming up: should I even spend any time doing this or should I just concentrate on CF? The more e-mails I read in this list, the more I realize how powerful CF is, but should I keep all my eggs in one basket so to speak? Any good advice? TIA Jimmy __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
Sooner or later you, as a web developer, will run into a situation where CF is not an option (client choice, server restrictions, etc.). When this happens, if you haven't learned ASP/VBScript, or some other suitable technology, then you probably won't be able to work on the project. With ASP available on every IIS server for free (ignoring hosting costs for now), a lot of clients, especially small businesses, will resist CF or PHP even. In these cases, you have to know ASP. Btw, there's nothing saying you HAVE to do VBScript for ASP pages - you can use JScript as well, which is basically Javascript. My thoughts not yours Shawn Grover On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, Perez, Jimmy wrote: Hello all, I am a CF certified developer (missed advanced by three points) but am thinking of expanding my horizons/marketability. I have started getting up to speed in ASP/VBScript but the question keeps coming up: should I even spend any time doing this or should I just concentrate on CF? The more e-mails I read in this list, the more I realize how powerful CF is, but should I keep all my eggs in one basket so to speak? Any good advice? TIA Jimmy __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
My .02 is: If you 'put all your eggs in one basket' you lock yourself out of another potentially rewarding market: the website/application UPGRADE. People may have existing sites in .asp, .php, etc that are perfectly usable and functional... and they want to add functionality. If you only know CF, you may be limiting yourself quite a lot. -- Jillian On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, Perez, Jimmy wrote: Hello all, I am a CF certified developer (missed advanced by three points) but am thinking of expanding my horizons/marketability. I have started getting up to speed in ASP/VBScript but the question keeps coming up: should I even spend any time doing this or should I just concentrate on CF? The more e-mails I read in this list, the more I realize how powerful CF is, but should I keep all my eggs in one basket so to speak? Any good advice? TIA Jimmy __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
As long as the price is right... :) Thanks -Original Message- From: Alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 2:56 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP Use the right tool for the job. And if you have to ask if you should keep all your eggs in one basket then I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, Perez, Jimmy wrote: Hello all, I am a CF certified developer (missed advanced by three points) but am thinking of expanding my horizons/marketability. I have started getting up to speed in ASP/VBScript but the question keeps coming up: should I even spend any time doing this or should I just concentrate on CF? The more e-mails I read in this list, the more I realize how powerful CF is, but should I keep all my eggs in one basket so to speak? Any good advice? TIA Jimmy __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
Keeping in mind the movements toward J2EE in the recent CF release, I would recommend looking into the Java/JSP world. It will help you with your future CF work, but also open a world of possibilities outside CF as well. Also you can run Java/JSP for free. I recently did it on a huge production site (Red Hat, Resin, PostgreSQL) [yes I said production, as in live, on Resin. It worked very well]. My 2 cents. -Original Message- From: Perez, Jimmy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 12:44 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: CF vs. ASP Hello all, I am a CF certified developer (missed advanced by three points) but am thinking of expanding my horizons/marketability. I have started getting up to speed in ASP/VBScript but the question keeps coming up: should I even spend any time doing this or should I just concentrate on CF? The more e-mails I read in this list, the more I realize how powerful CF is, but should I keep all my eggs in one basket so to speak? Any good advice? TIA Jimmy __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
I have found myself doing projects in VB, VBScript, ASP, Cold Fusion, PHP, Perl etc... It doesn't hurt to know. It came in handy for me. Some I learned while using them :) Shawn Regan pacifictechnologysolutions 15530-B Rockfield Blvd. Suite 4 Irvine, CA 92618 949.830.1623 w w w . p t s 1 . c o m -Original Message- From: Perez, Jimmy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 12:44 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: CF vs. ASP Hello all, I am a CF certified developer (missed advanced by three points) but am thinking of expanding my horizons/marketability. I have started getting up to speed in ASP/VBScript but the question keeps coming up: should I even spend any time doing this or should I just concentrate on CF? The more e-mails I read in this list, the more I realize how powerful CF is, but should I keep all my eggs in one basket so to speak? Any good advice? TIA Jimmy __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: CF vs. ASP
Being that I'm finally going to learn some ASP and PHP, I have a quick question regarding ASP and ASP.NET. I have taken a quick look at ASP 2 or 3 (can't remember which) which was long enough to know that it was never going to be a favourite like CF. My question is what is the difference (language wise) between ASP 3 and ASP.NET? I know ASP 3 was all VB or JScript, but what's different in .NET (that may require abig response but I'm just looking for general stuff)? I guess in short...should I learn ASP 3 or ASP.NET or both? TIA Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. t. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Macromedia Associate Partner www.macromedia.com - Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group Founder Director www.cfug-vancouverisland.com.cfm?sidebar=lists __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
Just another tidbit as well. Don't go for ASP 3.0 look into the whole .NET architecture. Yes, I love my CF but variety is the spice of life. Not too mention that ASP support is going to dwindle with the whole .NET (ASP included) push. Big T -Original Message- From: Jillian Carroll [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 4:15 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP My .02 is: If you 'put all your eggs in one basket' you lock yourself out of another potentially rewarding market: the website/application UPGRADE. People may have existing sites in .asp, .php, etc that are perfectly usable and functional... and they want to add functionality. If you only know CF, you may be limiting yourself quite a lot. -- Jillian On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, Perez, Jimmy wrote: Hello all, I am a CF certified developer (missed advanced by three points) but am thinking of expanding my horizons/marketability. I have started getting up to speed in ASP/VBScript but the question keeps coming up: should I even spend any time doing this or should I just concentrate on CF? The more e-mails I read in this list, the more I realize how powerful CF is, but should I keep all my eggs in one basket so to speak? Any good advice? TIA Jimmy __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
CASE IN POINT TOO MANY LINES/CHARACTERS OF BS VBSHIT CODE Dim MyMail Dim MsgText Set MsgText = Request.Form(FirstName) + + Request.Form(LastName) + has requested more information. Set MsgText = MsgText + Please contact them at + Request.Form(Phone) Set MsgText = MsgText + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(FirstName) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(LastName) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Addr1) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Addr2) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(City) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(State) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(ZIP) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Email) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Phone) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Comments) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(NoMkt) + VBCrLf Set MyMail = CreateObject(CDONTS.NewMail) MyMail.From = [EMAIL PROTECTED] MyMail.To = [EMAIL PROTECTED] MyMail.Subject = Information Request MyMail.BodyFormat = 1 'plain text MyMail.MailFormat = 1 'plain text MyMail.Body = MsgText MyMail.Send Set MyMail = Nothing !END CASE IN POINT! Compared to this.. cfmail to= from= server= subject=some stuff here./cfmail there is no comparison, the only thing we need to do with asp is Port it to CFML so that our clients get what they deserve! ..tony Tony Weeg Senior Web Developer Information System Design Navtrak, Inc. Fleet Management Solutions www.navtrak.net 410.548.2337 -Original Message- From: Perez, Jimmy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 4:11 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP As long as the price is right... :) Thanks -Original Message- From: Alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 2:56 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP Use the right tool for the job. And if you have to ask if you should keep all your eggs in one basket then I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, Perez, Jimmy wrote: Hello all, I am a CF certified developer (missed advanced by three points) but am thinking of expanding my horizons/marketability. I have started getting up to speed in ASP/VBScript but the question keeps coming up: should I even spend any time doing this or should I just concentrate on CF? The more e-mails I read in this list, the more I realize how powerful CF is, but should I keep all my eggs in one basket so to speak? Any good advice? TIA Jimmy __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
Yeah but unless you're hosting it for them, they will have to pay an additional amount of money to buy CF Server to run that easier code. While certain things like that are much easier to code in CF, if you're trying to get a customer and it's a big site, $500 could be the difference between you getting a job or a competitor. Robert Everland III Web Developer Extraordinaire Dixon Ticonderoga Company http://www.dixonusa.com -Original Message- From: Tony Weeg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 4:35 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP CASE IN POINT TOO MANY LINES/CHARACTERS OF BS VBSHIT CODE Dim MyMail Dim MsgText Set MsgText = Request.Form(FirstName) + + Request.Form(LastName) + has requested more information. Set MsgText = MsgText + Please contact them at + Request.Form(Phone) Set MsgText = MsgText + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(FirstName) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(LastName) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Addr1) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Addr2) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(City) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(State) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(ZIP) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Email) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Phone) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Comments) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(NoMkt) + VBCrLf Set MyMail = CreateObject(CDONTS.NewMail) MyMail.From = [EMAIL PROTECTED] MyMail.To = [EMAIL PROTECTED] MyMail.Subject = Information Request MyMail.BodyFormat = 1 'plain text MyMail.MailFormat = 1 'plain text MyMail.Body = MsgText MyMail.Send Set MyMail = Nothing !END CASE IN POINT! Compared to this.. cfmail to= from= server= subject=some stuff here./cfmail there is no comparison, the only thing we need to do with asp is Port it to CFML so that our clients get what they deserve! .tony Tony Weeg Senior Web Developer Information System Design Navtrak, Inc. Fleet Management Solutions www.navtrak.net 410.548.2337 -Original Message- From: Perez, Jimmy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 4:11 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP As long as the price is right... :) Thanks -Original Message- From: Alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 2:56 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP Use the right tool for the job. And if you have to ask if you should keep all your eggs in one basket then I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, Perez, Jimmy wrote: Hello all, I am a CF certified developer (missed advanced by three points) but am thinking of expanding my horizons/marketability. I have started getting up to speed in ASP/VBScript but the question keeps coming up: should I even spend any time doing this or should I just concentrate on CF? The more e-mails I read in this list, the more I realize how powerful CF is, but should I keep all my eggs in one basket so to speak? Any good advice? TIA Jimmy __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: CF vs. ASP
Hello all, I am a CF certified developer (missed advanced by three points) but am thinking of expanding my horizons/marketability. I have started getting up to speed in ASP/VBScript but the question keeps coming up: should I even spend any time doing this or should I just concentrate on CF? The more e-mails I read in this list, the more I realize how powerful CF is, but should I keep all my eggs in one basket so to speak? Any good advice? Personally I would focus lesson ASP/VBScript than on PHP, XML, J2EE and possibly .NET which Microsoft obviously wants you to use with ASP but I hear can also be used with CF. I heard mentioned not too long ago that PHP recently superceded ASP as the most widely implemented scripting language on the web ( although I can't quote source or confirm the rumor )... And of course, there are similar rumors about the advancement and longevity of XML, J2EE and to some extent .NET (though I'm apt to think a lot of the hype for the last one is due in large part to the marketing power$ of Micro$oft -- not that I think most of the hype over PHP has much to do with anything other than it's being free, which was one of the big reasons ASP had such a foothold for such a long time, because it was preinstalled on an OS people were already buying). I haven't really heard anyone in a long while say Man, you've got to get into ASP, it's where the future is ... hth Isaac Dealey Certified Advanced ColdFusion 5 Developer www.turnkey.to 954-776-0046 __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
Oh please! You're comparing apples to oranges. Just because all of the cfmail code is hidden from you; it doesn't mean it isn't there. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ V: 415-577-8070 F: 415-341-8906 P: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Tony Weeg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 1:35 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP CASE IN POINT TOO MANY LINES/CHARACTERS OF BS VBSHIT CODE Dim MyMail Dim MsgText Set MsgText = Request.Form(FirstName) + + Request.Form(LastName) + has requested more information. Set MsgText = MsgText + Please contact them at + Request.Form(Phone) Set MsgText = MsgText + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(FirstName) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(LastName) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Addr1) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Addr2) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(City) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(State) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(ZIP) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Email) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Phone) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Comments) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(NoMkt) + VBCrLf Set MyMail = CreateObject(CDONTS.NewMail) MyMail.From = [EMAIL PROTECTED] MyMail.To = [EMAIL PROTECTED] MyMail.Subject = Information Request MyMail.BodyFormat = 1 'plain text MyMail.MailFormat = 1 'plain text MyMail.Body = MsgText MyMail.Send Set MyMail = Nothing !END CASE IN POINT! Compared to this.. cfmail to= from= server= subject=some stuff here./cfmail there is no comparison, the only thing we need to do with asp is Port it to CFML so that our clients get what they deserve! ..tony Tony Weeg Senior Web Developer Information System Design Navtrak, Inc. Fleet Management Solutions www.navtrak.net 410.548.2337 -Original Message- From: Perez, Jimmy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 4:11 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP As long as the price is right... :) Thanks -Original Message- From: Alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 2:56 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP Use the right tool for the job. And if you have to ask if you should keep all your eggs in one basket then I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, Perez, Jimmy wrote: Hello all, I am a CF certified developer (missed advanced by three points) but am thinking of expanding my horizons/marketability. I have started getting up to speed in ASP/VBScript but the question keeps coming up: should I even spend any time doing this or should I just concentrate on CF? The more e-mails I read in this list, the more I realize how powerful CF is, but should I keep all my eggs in one basket so to speak? Any good advice? TIA Jimmy __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: CF vs. ASP
Learn ASP as much as you can. This way, it is easier to re-write everything in CF. At 02:43 PM 8/26/2002 -0500, you wrote: Hello all, I am a CF certified developer (missed advanced by three points) but am thinking of expanding my horizons/marketability. I have started getting up to speed in ASP/VBScript but the question keeps coming up: should I even spend any time doing this or should I just concentrate on CF? The more e-mails I read in this list, the more I realize how powerful CF is, but should I keep all my eggs in one basket so to speak? Any good advice? TIA Jimmy __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
Yeah but unless you're hosting it for them, they will have to pay an additional amount of money to buy CF Server to run that easier code. While certain things like that are much easier to code in CF, if you're trying to get a customer and it's a big site, $500 could be the difference between you getting a job or a competitor. If your clients balk at paying $500 for a CF Pro license, they should be pleased when you tell them they'll save that much in ONE DAY of development vs ASP/Perl/etc. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: CF vs. ASP
Matt I think Tony is bang on. Yes the additinal code may be hidden from us, but because of that fact we can develop faster and reduce development costs for clients. That said I still think it's good to know a few langauges and that's why I'm starting on ASP.NET, Java, and a smidge of PHP to round it outgeesh I sound like a geek don't I ;-) Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. t. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Macromedia Associate Partner www.macromedia.com - Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group Founder Director www.cfug-vancouverisland.com - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 1:47 PM Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP Oh please! You're comparing apples to oranges. Just because all of the cfmail code is hidden from you; it doesn't mean it isn't there. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ V: 415-577-8070 F: 415-341-8906 P: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Tony Weeg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 1:35 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP CASE IN POINT TOO MANY LINES/CHARACTERS OF BS VBSHIT CODE Dim MyMail Dim MsgText Set MsgText = Request.Form(FirstName) + + Request.Form(LastName) + has requested more information. Set MsgText = MsgText + Please contact them at + Request.Form(Phone) Set MsgText = MsgText + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(FirstName) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(LastName) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Addr1) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Addr2) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(City) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(State) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(ZIP) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Email) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Phone) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Comments) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(NoMkt) + VBCrLf Set MyMail = CreateObject(CDONTS.NewMail) MyMail.From = [EMAIL PROTECTED] MyMail.To = [EMAIL PROTECTED] MyMail.Subject = Information Request MyMail.BodyFormat = 1 'plain text MyMail.MailFormat = 1 'plain text MyMail.Body = MsgText MyMail.Send Set MyMail = Nothing !END CASE IN POINT! Compared to this.. cfmail to= from= server= subject=some stuff here./cfmail there is no comparison, the only thing we need to do with asp is Port it to CFML so that our clients get what they deserve! ..tony Tony Weeg Senior Web Developer Information System Design Navtrak, Inc. Fleet Management Solutions www.navtrak.net 410.548.2337 -Original Message- From: Perez, Jimmy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 4:11 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP As long as the price is right... :) Thanks -Original Message- From: Alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 2:56 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP Use the right tool for the job. And if you have to ask if you should keep all your eggs in one basket then I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, Perez, Jimmy wrote: Hello all, I am a CF certified developer (missed advanced by three points) but am thinking of expanding my horizons/marketability. I have started getting up to speed in ASP/VBScript but the question keeps coming up: should I even spend any time doing this or should I just concentrate on CF? The more e-mails I read in this list, the more I realize how powerful CF is, but should I keep all my eggs in one basket so to speak? Any good advice? TIA Jimmy __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: CF vs. ASP
No reason to buy an older ASP book if that's what you mean. The languages are basically the same, except for VBScript finally being typed, and getting decent error handling. ASP has always been more about integrating COM objects than anything. A tag in cf = com object in asp... The CLR is conceptually just a giant bundle of COM objects with some management stuff tacked on. Just one aside, ASP and .Net are able to be programmed in more than VB or JS...I've heard some crazy numbers like 30+ languages. CF could be done on top of the CLR even. -- jon mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Monday, August 26, 2002, 4:27:06 PM, you wrote: BS Being that I'm finally going to learn some ASP and PHP, I have a quick BS question regarding ASP and ASP.NET. I have taken a quick look at ASP 2 or 3 BS (can't remember which) which was long enough to know that it was never going BS to be a favourite like CF. My question is what is the difference (language BS wise) between ASP 3 and ASP.NET? I know ASP 3 was all VB or JScript, but BS what's different in .NET (that may require abig response but I'm just BS looking for general stuff)? BS I guess in short...should I learn ASP 3 or ASP.NET or both? __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
And wait until you get a project that utilises a lot of COM objects... ASP and ASP.NET handles COM a lot easier that CF 5 and especially MX. You need to use the tool that fits the job. -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 21:47 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP Oh please! You're comparing apples to oranges. Just because all of the cfmail code is hidden from you; it doesn't mean it isn't there. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ V: 415-577-8070 F: 415-341-8906 P: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Tony Weeg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 1:35 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP CASE IN POINT TOO MANY LINES/CHARACTERS OF BS VBSHIT CODE Dim MyMail Dim MsgText Set MsgText = Request.Form(FirstName) + + Request.Form(LastName) + has requested more information. Set MsgText = MsgText + Please contact them at + Request.Form(Phone) Set MsgText = MsgText + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(FirstName) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(LastName) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Addr1) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Addr2) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(City) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(State) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(ZIP) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Email) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Phone) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Comments) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(NoMkt) + VBCrLf Set MyMail = CreateObject(CDONTS.NewMail) MyMail.From = [EMAIL PROTECTED] MyMail.To = [EMAIL PROTECTED] MyMail.Subject = Information Request MyMail.BodyFormat = 1 'plain text MyMail.MailFormat = 1 'plain text MyMail.Body = MsgText MyMail.Send Set MyMail = Nothing !END CASE IN POINT! Compared to this.. cfmail to= from= server= subject=some stuff here./cfmail there is no comparison, the only thing we need to do with asp is Port it to CFML so that our clients get what they deserve! ..tony Tony Weeg Senior Web Developer Information System Design Navtrak, Inc. Fleet Management Solutions www.navtrak.net 410.548.2337 -Original Message- From: Perez, Jimmy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 4:11 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP As long as the price is right... :) Thanks -Original Message- From: Alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 2:56 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP Use the right tool for the job. And if you have to ask if you should keep all your eggs in one basket then I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, Perez, Jimmy wrote: Hello all, I am a CF certified developer (missed advanced by three points) but am thinking of expanding my horizons/marketability. I have started getting up to speed in ASP/VBScript but the question keeps coming up: should I even spend any time doing this or should I just concentrate on CF? The more e-mails I read in this list, the more I realize how powerful CF is, but should I keep all my eggs in one basket so to speak? Any good advice? TIA Jimmy __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
And the first time they want to do full text searching, or basic graphing, or simple things like handling file uploads or using POP (or LDAP or server side HTTP) you'll need to be add-on modules and components that will cost you more than the $500 very very quickly. And that is just raw cost of goods, not to mention the time you'll save them too. --- Ben -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 5:15 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP Yeah but unless you're hosting it for them, they will have to pay an additional amount of money to buy CF Server to run that easier code. While certain things like that are much easier to code in CF, if you're trying to get a customer and it's a big site, $500 could be the difference between you getting a job or a competitor. If your clients balk at paying $500 for a CF Pro license, they should be pleased when you tell them they'll save that much in ONE DAY of development vs ASP/Perl/etc. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
Oh please! You're comparing apples to oranges. Just because all of the cfmail code is hidden from you; it doesn't mean it isn't there. While I don't buy Tony's comparison in full (there are certainly cleaner ways to write the ASP code), I think you're missing the point. Sure, all the same things are happening, but with CF, you don't have to look at them - the functionality is abstracted away from you within a very nice, clean presentation model. The tag-based presentation model can't be beat for generating output into larger strings being sent to the browser or an SMTP server or whatever. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
Actually, if you were interested in making a fair comparison, it would look more like this: cfmail to=[EMAIL PROTECTED] from=[EMAIL PROTECTED] subject= #Form.FirstName# #Form.LastName# has request more information. Please contact them at #Form.Phone#. #Form.FirstName# #Form.LastName# #Form.Addr1# #Form.Addr2# #Form.City# #Form.State# #Form.ZIP# #Form.Email# #Form.Phone# #Form.Comments# #Form.NoMkt# /cfmail It's still less lines and I like the way ColdFusion does it better, but that would be a more accurate comparison. Of course, the ASP method can be advantageous in a lot of situations. Benjamin S. Rogers http://www.c4.net/ v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: Tony Weeg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 4:35 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP CASE IN POINT TOO MANY LINES/CHARACTERS OF BS VBSHIT CODE Dim MyMail Dim MsgText Set MsgText = Request.Form(FirstName) + + Request.Form(LastName) + has requested more information. Set MsgText = MsgText + Please contact them at + Request.Form(Phone) Set MsgText = MsgText + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(FirstName) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(LastName) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Addr1) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Addr2) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(City) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(State) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(ZIP) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Email) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Phone) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Comments) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(NoMkt) + VBCrLf Set MyMail = CreateObject(CDONTS.NewMail) MyMail.From = [EMAIL PROTECTED] MyMail.To = [EMAIL PROTECTED] MyMail.Subject = Information Request MyMail.BodyFormat = 1 'plain text MyMail.MailFormat = 1 'plain text MyMail.Body = MsgText MyMail.Send Set MyMail = Nothing !END CASE IN POINT! Compared to this.. cfmail to= from= server= subject=some stuff here./cfmail there is no comparison, the only thing we need to do with asp is Port it to CFML so that our clients get what they deserve! .tony Tony Weeg Senior Web Developer Information System Design Navtrak, Inc. Fleet Management Solutions www.navtrak.net 410.548.2337 -Original Message- From: Perez, Jimmy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 4:11 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP As long as the price is right... :) Thanks -Original Message- From: Alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 2:56 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP Use the right tool for the job. And if you have to ask if you should keep all your eggs in one basket then I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, Perez, Jimmy wrote: Hello all, I am a CF certified developer (missed advanced by three points) but am thinking of expanding my horizons/marketability. I have started getting up to speed in ASP/VBScript but the question keeps coming up: should I even spend any time doing this or should I just concentrate on CF? The more e-mails I read in this list, the more I realize how powerful CF is, but should I keep all my eggs in one basket so to speak? Any good advice? TIA Jimmy __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: CF vs. ASP
Thanks Jon...that's what I needed ;-) Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. t. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Macromedia Associate Partner www.macromedia.com - Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group Founder Director www.cfug-vancouverisland.com - Original Message - From: Jon Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 2:22 PM Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP No reason to buy an older ASP book if that's what you mean. The languages are basically the same, except for VBScript finally being typed, and getting decent error handling. ASP has always been more about integrating COM objects than anything. A tag in cf = com object in asp... The CLR is conceptually just a giant bundle of COM objects with some management stuff tacked on. Just one aside, ASP and .Net are able to be programmed in more than VB or JS...I've heard some crazy numbers like 30+ languages. CF could be done on top of the CLR even. -- jon mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Monday, August 26, 2002, 4:27:06 PM, you wrote: BS Being that I'm finally going to learn some ASP and PHP, I have a quick BS question regarding ASP and ASP.NET. I have taken a quick look at ASP 2 or 3 BS (can't remember which) which was long enough to know that it was never going BS to be a favourite like CF. My question is what is the difference (language BS wise) between ASP 3 and ASP.NET? I know ASP 3 was all VB or JScript, but BS what's different in .NET (that may require abig response but I'm just BS looking for general stuff)? BS I guess in short...should I learn ASP 3 or ASP.NET or both? __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
I'll sell you an object you can call from ASP in one line just like cfmail for $200. Attempting to show that CF is a more rabid development platform than ASP should be done using one on one examples, not packaging differences. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ V: 415-577-8070 F: 415-341-8906 P: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 2:10 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP Matt I think Tony is bang on. Yes the additinal code may be hidden from us, but because of that fact we can develop faster and reduce development costs for clients. That said I still think it's good to know a few langauges and that's why I'm starting on ASP.NET, Java, and a smidge of PHP to round it outgeesh I sound like a geek don't I ;-) Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. t. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Macromedia Associate Partner www.macromedia.com - Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group Founder Director www.cfug-vancouverisland.com - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 1:47 PM Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP Oh please! You're comparing apples to oranges. Just because all of the cfmail code is hidden from you; it doesn't mean it isn't there. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ V: 415-577-8070 F: 415-341-8906 P: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Tony Weeg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 1:35 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP CASE IN POINT TOO MANY LINES/CHARACTERS OF BS VBSHIT CODE Dim MyMail Dim MsgText Set MsgText = Request.Form(FirstName) + + Request.Form(LastName) + has requested more information. Set MsgText = MsgText + Please contact them at + Request.Form(Phone) Set MsgText = MsgText + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(FirstName) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(LastName) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Addr1) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Addr2) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(City) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(State) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(ZIP) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Email) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Phone) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Comments) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(NoMkt) + VBCrLf Set MyMail = CreateObject(CDONTS.NewMail) MyMail.From = [EMAIL PROTECTED] MyMail.To = [EMAIL PROTECTED] MyMail.Subject = Information Request MyMail.BodyFormat = 1 'plain text MyMail.MailFormat = 1 'plain text MyMail.Body = MsgText MyMail.Send Set MyMail = Nothing !END CASE IN POINT! Compared to this.. cfmail to= from= server= subject=some stuff here./cfmail there is no comparison, the only thing we need to do with asp is Port it to CFML so that our clients get what they deserve! ..tony Tony Weeg Senior Web Developer Information System Design Navtrak, Inc. Fleet Management Solutions www.navtrak.net 410.548.2337 -Original Message- From: Perez, Jimmy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 4:11 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP As long as the price is right... :) Thanks -Original Message- From: Alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 2:56 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP Use the right tool for the job. And if you have to ask if you should keep all your eggs in one basket then I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, Perez, Jimmy wrote: Hello all, I am a CF certified developer (missed advanced by three points) but am thinking of expanding my horizons/marketability. I have started getting up to speed in ASP/VBScript but the question keeps coming up: should I even spend any time doing this or should I just concentrate on CF? The more e-mails I read in this list, the more I realize how powerful CF is, but should I keep all my eggs in one basket so to speak? Any good advice? TIA Jimmy __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk
RE: CF vs. ASP
thank you bryan! let matt be matt, i kinda was waiting for his response, i knew it would be very matt ;-) anyhow, the truth of the matter is thisif i can develop rich cf applications for companies in half the time, that it might take an asp coder to do it, with half the code, i will, and until something better comes along, thats what im doing... of course there is other code to the cfmail tag, what idiot wouldnt know that? but the point was, from a developers prospective, why waste your time on asp or php or anything like that, when you can simply make the BIGGEST BADDEST web apps in the world, with an easy to use tag based markup language. i didnt ask the toyota dealer if he used craftsman tools to build my celica, i simply asked him if it worked, and when i turned the ignition on, it worked, i was pleased. tony -Original Message- From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 5:10 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP Matt I think Tony is bang on. Yes the additinal code may be hidden from us, but because of that fact we can develop faster and reduce development costs for clients. That said I still think it's good to know a few langauges and that's why I'm starting on ASP.NET, Java, and a smidge of PHP to round it outgeesh I sound like a geek don't I ;-) Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. t. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Macromedia Associate Partner www.macromedia.com - Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group Founder Director www.cfug-vancouverisland.com - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 1:47 PM Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP Oh please! You're comparing apples to oranges. Just because all of the cfmail code is hidden from you; it doesn't mean it isn't there. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ V: 415-577-8070 F: 415-341-8906 P: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Tony Weeg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 1:35 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP CASE IN POINT TOO MANY LINES/CHARACTERS OF BS VBSHIT CODE Dim MyMail Dim MsgText Set MsgText = Request.Form(FirstName) + + Request.Form(LastName) + has requested more information. Set MsgText = MsgText + Please contact them at + Request.Form(Phone) Set MsgText = MsgText + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(FirstName) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(LastName) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Addr1) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Addr2) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(City) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(State) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(ZIP) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Email) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Phone) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Comments) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(NoMkt) + VBCrLf Set MyMail = CreateObject(CDONTS.NewMail) MyMail.From = [EMAIL PROTECTED] MyMail.To = [EMAIL PROTECTED] MyMail.Subject = Information Request MyMail.BodyFormat = 1 'plain text MyMail.MailFormat = 1 'plain text MyMail.Body = MsgText MyMail.Send Set MyMail = Nothing !END CASE IN POINT! Compared to this.. cfmail to= from= server= subject=some stuff here./cfmail there is no comparison, the only thing we need to do with asp is Port it to CFML so that our clients get what they deserve! ..tony Tony Weeg Senior Web Developer Information System Design Navtrak, Inc. Fleet Management Solutions www.navtrak.net 410.548.2337 -Original Message- From: Perez, Jimmy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 4:11 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP As long as the price is right... :) Thanks -Original Message- From: Alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 2:56 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP Use the right tool for the job. And if you have to ask if you should keep all your eggs in one basket then I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, Perez, Jimmy wrote: Hello all, I am a CF certified developer (missed advanced by three points) but am thinking of expanding my horizons/marketability. I have started getting up to speed in ASP/VBScript but the question keeps coming up: should I even spend any time doing this or should I just concentrate on CF? The more e-mails I read in this list, the more I realize how powerful CF is, but should I
RE: CF vs. ASP
Yeah, but if you are using COM than you asking for trouble to begin with. Friends don't let friends use COM. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ V: 415-577-8070 F: 415-341-8906 P: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Mike Townend [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 2:30 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP And wait until you get a project that utilises a lot of COM objects... ASP and ASP.NET handles COM a lot easier that CF 5 and especially MX. You need to use the tool that fits the job. -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 21:47 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP Oh please! You're comparing apples to oranges. Just because all of the cfmail code is hidden from you; it doesn't mean it isn't there. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ V: 415-577-8070 F: 415-341-8906 P: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Tony Weeg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 1:35 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP CASE IN POINT TOO MANY LINES/CHARACTERS OF BS VBSHIT CODE Dim MyMail Dim MsgText Set MsgText = Request.Form(FirstName) + + Request.Form(LastName) + has requested more information. Set MsgText = MsgText + Please contact them at + Request.Form(Phone) Set MsgText = MsgText + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(FirstName) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(LastName) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Addr1) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Addr2) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(City) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(State) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(ZIP) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Email) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Phone) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Comments) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(NoMkt) + VBCrLf Set MyMail = CreateObject(CDONTS.NewMail) MyMail.From = [EMAIL PROTECTED] MyMail.To = [EMAIL PROTECTED] MyMail.Subject = Information Request MyMail.BodyFormat = 1 'plain text MyMail.MailFormat = 1 'plain text MyMail.Body = MsgText MyMail.Send Set MyMail = Nothing !END CASE IN POINT! Compared to this.. cfmail to= from= server= subject=some stuff here./cfmail there is no comparison, the only thing we need to do with asp is Port it to CFML so that our clients get what they deserve! ..tony Tony Weeg Senior Web Developer Information System Design Navtrak, Inc. Fleet Management Solutions www.navtrak.net 410.548.2337 -Original Message- From: Perez, Jimmy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 4:11 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP As long as the price is right... :) Thanks -Original Message- From: Alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 2:56 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP Use the right tool for the job. And if you have to ask if you should keep all your eggs in one basket then I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, Perez, Jimmy wrote: Hello all, I am a CF certified developer (missed advanced by three points) but am thinking of expanding my horizons/marketability. I have started getting up to speed in ASP/VBScript but the question keeps coming up: should I even spend any time doing this or should I just concentrate on CF? The more e-mails I read in this list, the more I realize how powerful CF is, but should I keep all my eggs in one basket so to speak? Any good advice? TIA Jimmy __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
What is up with these comparisons? There is nothing wrong with comparing CF with any other web application language head on. Why continue to try and pushing packaging as the advantage. Everything you mentioned in your email is available for free as open source packages. Sure it may take some effort to gather them up, but you only have to do that once. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ V: 415-577-8070 F: 415-341-8906 P: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Ben Forta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 2:40 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP And the first time they want to do full text searching, or basic graphing, or simple things like handling file uploads or using POP (or LDAP or server side HTTP) you'll need to be add-on modules and components that will cost you more than the $500 very very quickly. And that is just raw cost of goods, not to mention the time you'll save them too. --- Ben -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 5:15 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP Yeah but unless you're hosting it for them, they will have to pay an additional amount of money to buy CF Server to run that easier code. While certain things like that are much easier to code in CF, if you're trying to get a customer and it's a big site, $500 could be the difference between you getting a job or a competitor. If your clients balk at paying $500 for a CF Pro license, they should be pleased when you tell them they'll save that much in ONE DAY of development vs ASP/Perl/etc. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: CF vs. ASP
IMHO that is not a packaging difference it's an ease of use difference. BTW that was a one on one example. Oh ya...rabid development...LOL...bunch of developers frothing at the mouth?? ;-) Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. t. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Macromedia Associate Partner www.macromedia.com - Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group Founder Director www.cfug-vancouverisland.com - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 3:13 PM Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP I'll sell you an object you can call from ASP in one line just like cfmail for $200. Attempting to show that CF is a more rabid development platform than ASP should be done using one on one examples, not packaging differences. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ V: 415-577-8070 F: 415-341-8906 P: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 2:10 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP Matt I think Tony is bang on. Yes the additinal code may be hidden from us, but because of that fact we can develop faster and reduce development costs for clients. That said I still think it's good to know a few langauges and that's why I'm starting on ASP.NET, Java, and a smidge of PHP to round it outgeesh I sound like a geek don't I ;-) Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. t. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Macromedia Associate Partner www.macromedia.com - Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group Founder Director www.cfug-vancouverisland.com - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 1:47 PM Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP Oh please! You're comparing apples to oranges. Just because all of the cfmail code is hidden from you; it doesn't mean it isn't there. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ V: 415-577-8070 F: 415-341-8906 P: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Tony Weeg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 1:35 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP CASE IN POINT TOO MANY LINES/CHARACTERS OF BS VBSHIT CODE Dim MyMail Dim MsgText Set MsgText = Request.Form(FirstName) + + Request.Form(LastName) + has requested more information. Set MsgText = MsgText + Please contact them at + Request.Form(Phone) Set MsgText = MsgText + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(FirstName) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(LastName) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Addr1) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Addr2) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(City) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(State) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(ZIP) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Email) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Phone) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(Comments) + VBCrLf Set MsgText = MsgText + Request.Form(NoMkt) + VBCrLf Set MyMail = CreateObject(CDONTS.NewMail) MyMail.From = [EMAIL PROTECTED] MyMail.To = [EMAIL PROTECTED] MyMail.Subject = Information Request MyMail.BodyFormat = 1 'plain text MyMail.MailFormat = 1 'plain text MyMail.Body = MsgText MyMail.Send Set MyMail = Nothing !END CASE IN POINT! Compared to this.. cfmail to= from= server= subject=some stuff here./cfmail there is no comparison, the only thing we need to do with asp is Port it to CFML so that our clients get what they deserve! ..tony Tony Weeg Senior Web Developer Information System Design Navtrak, Inc. Fleet Management Solutions www.navtrak.net 410.548.2337 -Original Message- From: Perez, Jimmy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 4:11 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP As long as the price is right... :) Thanks -Original Message- From: Alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 2:56 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP Use the right tool for the job. And if you have to ask if you should keep
RE: CF vs. ASP
You don't necessarily have to look at them in other languages. It all depends on what packages of functionality you are starting with. Take for example consuming a Web service with CFMX. It takes a single line of CF code to consume an Axis compatible Web service. To do the same thing using a Java servlet takes a single line of code with Axis as well. Of course there is a fundamental difference; you have more control in the Java world even using the same library. Creating web applications doesn't take less time with CF because it has things like email or Web services abstracted to a single line of code. Creating web applications takes less time with CF because it is tag based and mixes well with HTML. You might be able to put other languages' syntax inside tags with other application servers, but your mind has to do a mental context switch every time you move from HTML to your language's respective syntax. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ V: 415-577-8070 F: 415-341-8906 P: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 2:51 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP Oh please! You're comparing apples to oranges. Just because all of the cfmail code is hidden from you; it doesn't mean it isn't there. While I don't buy Tony's comparison in full (there are certainly cleaner ways to write the ASP code), I think you're missing the point. Sure, all the same things are happening, but with CF, you don't have to look at them - the functionality is abstracted away from you within a very nice, clean presentation model. The tag-based presentation model can't be beat for generating output into larger strings being sent to the browser or an SMTP server or whatever. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
anyhow, the truth of the matter is thisif i can develop rich cf applications for companies in half the time, that it might take an asp coder to do it, with half the code, i will, and until something better comes along, thats what im doing... I am not disagreeing that CF is faster to develop in. I am simply pointing out that it is not because one particular feature takes less lines to code in CF than another language. I suspect that just as much time is spent in another language learning an email library's API as is wasted by CFers trying to figure why cfmail doesn't do what it is supposed to. of course there is other code to the cfmail tag, what idiot wouldnt know that? but the point was, from a developers prospective, why waste your time on asp or php or anything like that, when you can simply make the BIGGEST BADDEST web apps in the world, with an easy to use tag based markup language. Hrm, last time I check the biggest baddest web apps in the world weren't written in CF. i didnt ask the toyota dealer if he used craftsman tools to build my celica, i simply asked him if it worked, and when i turned the ignition on, it worked, i was pleased. I don't think that is really a valid analogy. -Matt __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
I know that I am chiming in late here, but here goes. Learning another language can never hurt. Case in point. I put all of my eggs in one basket and stuck to just CF. Although I have a good job that pays very well, I am finding that I am starting to regret limiting myself to just CF. Currently our Intranet in 98% CF, and our Portal is 99% ASP (currently being converted to ASP.net). The problem that I see is that all of the upper management is totally sold on .net and we have to keep justifying why we need CF. What I see is that I may become somewhat of an anachronism if I do not do something about it, so I am learning .net and PHP to improve job security (PHP is really for my side work), and let us not forget the all important marketability aspect of being a programmer. -Original Message- From: Perez, Jimmy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 1:44 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: CF vs. ASP Hello all, I am a CF certified developer (missed advanced by three points) but am thinking of expanding my horizons/marketability. I have started getting up to speed in ASP/VBScript but the question keeps coming up: should I even spend any time doing this or should I just concentrate on CF? The more e-mails I read in this list, the more I realize how powerful CF is, but should I keep all my eggs in one basket so to speak? Any good advice? TIA Jimmy __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
speak for yourself matt, since you dont have confidence in your work being the biggest baddest web apps in the world, it doesnt surprise me that you dont find cf as the same. its a shame, a darn shame, you seem to be a pretty smart guy but are way, way too damn Opinionated and in to yourself, even for your own good. if you spent half as much time writing cf code as you do writing bitter emails to this list, you might be able to code some of the biggest baddest web apps in the world, like the rest of us do! tony -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 7:20 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP anyhow, the truth of the matter is thisif i can develop rich cf applications for companies in half the time, that it might take an asp coder to do it, with half the code, i will, and until something better comes along, thats what im doing... I am not disagreeing that CF is faster to develop in. I am simply pointing out that it is not because one particular feature takes less lines to code in CF than another language. I suspect that just as much time is spent in another language learning an email library's API as is wasted by CFers trying to figure why cfmail doesn't do what it is supposed to. of course there is other code to the cfmail tag, what idiot wouldnt know that? but the point was, from a developers prospective, why waste your time on asp or php or anything like that, when you can simply make the BIGGEST BADDEST web apps in the world, with an easy to use tag based markup language. Hrm, last time I check the biggest baddest web apps in the world weren't written in CF. i didnt ask the toyota dealer if he used craftsman tools to build my celica, i simply asked him if it worked, and when i turned the ignition on, it worked, i was pleased. I don't think that is really a valid analogy. -Matt __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
It is not a matter of confidence at all; it's reality. That doesn't reflect on CF as a language or CFers in general; it is just the way it is. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ V: 415-577-8070 F: 415-341-8906 P: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Tony Weeg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 4:47 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP speak for yourself matt, since you dont have confidence in your work being the biggest baddest web apps in the world, it doesnt surprise me that you dont find cf as the same. its a shame, a darn shame, you seem to be a pretty smart guy but are way, way too damn Opinionated and in to yourself, even for your own good. if you spent half as much time writing cf code as you do writing bitter emails to this list, you might be able to code some of the biggest baddest web apps in the world, like the rest of us do! tony -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 7:20 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP anyhow, the truth of the matter is thisif i can develop rich cf applications for companies in half the time, that it might take an asp coder to do it, with half the code, i will, and until something better comes along, thats what im doing... I am not disagreeing that CF is faster to develop in. I am simply pointing out that it is not because one particular feature takes less lines to code in CF than another language. I suspect that just as much time is spent in another language learning an email library's API as is wasted by CFers trying to figure why cfmail doesn't do what it is supposed to. of course there is other code to the cfmail tag, what idiot wouldnt know that? but the point was, from a developers prospective, why waste your time on asp or php or anything like that, when you can simply make the BIGGEST BADDEST web apps in the world, with an easy to use tag based markup language. Hrm, last time I check the biggest baddest web apps in the world weren't written in CF. i didnt ask the toyota dealer if he used craftsman tools to build my celica, i simply asked him if it worked, and when i turned the ignition on, it worked, i was pleased. I don't think that is really a valid analogy. -Matt __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
Tony, A little fired up? Biggest baddest apps in the world. Cnn.com, yahoo.com, amazon.com, msn.com - which of these are you working on? Listen to Matt, he's wiser than you. He just has a funny way of showing it. t ** Tyler M. Fitch Certified Advanced ColdFusion 5 Developer http://isitedesign.com ** -Original Message- From: Tony Weeg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 4:47 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP speak for yourself matt, since you dont have confidence in your work being the biggest baddest web apps in the world, it doesnt surprise me that you dont find cf as the same. its a shame, a darn shame, you seem to be a pretty smart guy but are way, way too damn Opinionated and in to yourself, even for your own good. if you spent half as much time writing cf code as you do writing bitter emails to this list, you might be able to code some of the biggest baddest web apps in the world, like the rest of us do! tony -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 7:20 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP anyhow, the truth of the matter is thisif i can develop rich cf applications for companies in half the time, that it might take an asp coder to do it, with half the code, i will, and until something better comes along, thats what im doing... I am not disagreeing that CF is faster to develop in. I am simply pointing out that it is not because one particular feature takes less lines to code in CF than another language. I suspect that just as much time is spent in another language learning an email library's API as is wasted by CFers trying to figure why cfmail doesn't do what it is supposed to. of course there is other code to the cfmail tag, what idiot wouldnt know that? but the point was, from a developers prospective, why waste your time on asp or php or anything like that, when you can simply make the BIGGEST BADDEST web apps in the world, with an easy to use tag based markup language. Hrm, last time I check the biggest baddest web apps in the world weren't written in CF. i didnt ask the toyota dealer if he used craftsman tools to build my celica, i simply asked him if it worked, and when i turned the ignition on, it worked, i was pleased. I don't think that is really a valid analogy. -Matt __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
not fired up, he is just my antithesis. i respect his development skills, i really do, its just that i cant stand sometimes the answers he just throws outit kills meand worse off i have to tell myself not to respond to most of them, cause i have better things to do ;) but, to put it blatantly honest, its all about perspective... in my mind, if im not building the biggest baddest web apps in the world, then im building nothing...and who is the judge of that? me. and really, only me. thanks. now, amazon, ill give that to ya, nice shopping cart system, but the truth is, i could have done those, given the time, the resources and the money, i could have easily programmed, everything in any of those, i just wasnt given the chance. so, to wit...im here chillin and grillin on delmarva, sittin on the chesapeake bay building my own BAD A** web apps, sitting back, laughing, making nice cake! with, can you guess ladies and gentsCF peace. tw -Original Message- From: Fitch, Tyler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 8:03 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP Tony, A little fired up? Biggest baddest apps in the world. Cnn.com, yahoo.com, amazon.com, msn.com - which of these are you working on? Listen to Matt, he's wiser than you. He just has a funny way of showing it. t ** Tyler M. Fitch Certified Advanced ColdFusion 5 Developer http://isitedesign.com ** -Original Message- From: Tony Weeg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 4:47 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP speak for yourself matt, since you dont have confidence in your work being the biggest baddest web apps in the world, it doesnt surprise me that you dont find cf as the same. its a shame, a darn shame, you seem to be a pretty smart guy but are way, way too damn Opinionated and in to yourself, even for your own good. if you spent half as much time writing cf code as you do writing bitter emails to this list, you might be able to code some of the biggest baddest web apps in the world, like the rest of us do! tony -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 7:20 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP anyhow, the truth of the matter is thisif i can develop rich cf applications for companies in half the time, that it might take an asp coder to do it, with half the code, i will, and until something better comes along, thats what im doing... I am not disagreeing that CF is faster to develop in. I am simply pointing out that it is not because one particular feature takes less lines to code in CF than another language. I suspect that just as much time is spent in another language learning an email library's API as is wasted by CFers trying to figure why cfmail doesn't do what it is supposed to. of course there is other code to the cfmail tag, what idiot wouldnt know that? but the point was, from a developers prospective, why waste your time on asp or php or anything like that, when you can simply make the BIGGEST BADDEST web apps in the world, with an easy to use tag based markup language. Hrm, last time I check the biggest baddest web apps in the world weren't written in CF. i didnt ask the toyota dealer if he used craftsman tools to build my celica, i simply asked him if it worked, and when i turned the ignition on, it worked, i was pleased. I don't think that is really a valid analogy. -Matt __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: CF vs. ASP
You know to this day it still amazes me things people say! Kinda like the old Mac is better than Microsoft, or even better Microsoft is better than Mac. C'mon we all know Linux is better ;) ColdFusion and ASP are tool that you use to get things done. Each has it's pros and it's cons. If you are working to meet a deadline, ColdFusion is your best solution, if you are looking to charge your customer with more hours of work from a project ASP is better. In truth ColdFusion is much more mature (Sincee it has actually been around longer in the market) than ASP and therefore it most ways behaves better. I wonder where ASP would be if Allaire would of been as big a Microsoft when it was released? I mean think about the comparison of companies! Yes, ColdFusion costs money, ASP can be plugged in. For ASP you need add-ons, and in some cases you also do with CF (CFX Tags, etc...). But in truth knowing both ASP and ColdFusion (actually started with ASP... [needless to say I cannot even remember those days anymore ;)] I've really seen ColdFusion do things in half the time that ASP do. I still to this day believe that the languages are tools we use to achieve the things we want or need, if you want to use ASP, that's your choice, just don't knock one or the other. I personally prefer Coldfusion simply because in my opinion it's much more powerful, scalable and faster. It takes a lot less time to build my applications and even better when I hire an entry level CF programmer, it's MUCH MUCH easier to get them going on the coding. Not to mention that ColdFusion has the greatest Community online. :) Well, that was just my two cents on the matter... Pablo Varando http://www.cfpablo.com http://www.easycfm.com - Original Message - From: Tony Weeg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 4:47 PM Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP speak for yourself matt, since you dont have confidence in your work being the biggest baddest web apps in the world, it doesnt surprise me that you dont find cf as the same. its a shame, a darn shame, you seem to be a pretty smart guy but are way, way too damn Opinionated and in to yourself, even for your own good. if you spent half as much time writing cf code as you do writing bitter emails to this list, you might be able to code some of the biggest baddest web apps in the world, like the rest of us do! tony -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 7:20 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP anyhow, the truth of the matter is thisif i can develop rich cf applications for companies in half the time, that it might take an asp coder to do it, with half the code, i will, and until something better comes along, thats what im doing... I am not disagreeing that CF is faster to develop in. I am simply pointing out that it is not because one particular feature takes less lines to code in CF than another language. I suspect that just as much time is spent in another language learning an email library's API as is wasted by CFers trying to figure why cfmail doesn't do what it is supposed to. of course there is other code to the cfmail tag, what idiot wouldnt know that? but the point was, from a developers prospective, why waste your time on asp or php or anything like that, when you can simply make the BIGGEST BADDEST web apps in the world, with an easy to use tag based markup language. Hrm, last time I check the biggest baddest web apps in the world weren't written in CF. i didnt ask the toyota dealer if he used craftsman tools to build my celica, i simply asked him if it worked, and when i turned the ignition on, it worked, i was pleased. I don't think that is really a valid analogy. -Matt __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: CF vs. ASP
Matt Liotta wrote: I am not disagreeing that CF is faster to develop in. I am simply pointing out that it is not because one particular feature takes less lines to code in CF than another language. I suspect that just as much time is spent in another language learning an email library's API as is wasted by CFers trying to figure why cfmail doesn't do what it is supposed to. Worse. First I waste much time figuring out what CF does, then I learn something else because CF doesn't do what I want it to do. Jochem __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: CF vs. ASP
What's more important here is where will you, the CF developer, be if macromedia goes out of business. I remember speaking to a business basic guru that took business basic to the limits; even writing bad ass web apps. __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
but, to put it blatantly honest, its all about perspective... in my mind, if im not building the biggest baddest web apps in the world, then im building nothing...and who is the judge of that? me. and really, only me. thanks. So if I hire you to create hello world in CF, will it be the biggest baddest wed app in the world? There's perspective and then there's... Some web apps are big and bad and others... well... they're not! now, amazon, ill give that to ya, nice shopping cart system, but the truth is, i could have done those, given the time, the resources and the money, i could have easily programmed, everything in any of those, i just wasnt given the chance. so, to wit...im here chillin and grillin on delmarva, sittin on the chesapeake bay building my own BAD A** web apps, sitting back, laughing, making nice cake! with, can you guess ladies and gentsCF Have you seen the Amazon.com taxonomy and recommendation engine? Something like that is actually really hard to do and generally takes some really smart people working as a team to pull it off. I may have a bigger ego than most when it comes to programming, but I wouldn't call the Amazon.com web app easy. -Matt __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
sorry, i didnt mean to come across like that, if you read. as i quote myself. now, amazon, ill give that to ya, nice shopping cart system, but the truth is, i could have done those, given the time, the resources and the money, i could have easily programmed, everything in any of those... WITH THE TIME, THE RESOURCES, AND THE MONEY any of us here could ;) in fact, i bet, if a company who could hire the talent pool of this talk list, collectively, shoot, we could probably figure out a way to program the shuttles next trip to the moon using cf, of course ;) tony -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 8:28 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP but, to put it blatantly honest, its all about perspective... in my mind, if im not building the biggest baddest web apps in the world, then im building nothing...and who is the judge of that? me. and really, only me. thanks. So if I hire you to create hello world in CF, will it be the biggest baddest wed app in the world? There's perspective and then there's... Some web apps are big and bad and others... well... they're not! now, amazon, ill give that to ya, nice shopping cart system, but the truth is, i could have done those, given the time, the resources and the money, i could have easily programmed, everything in any of those, i just wasnt given the chance. so, to wit...im here chillin and grillin on delmarva, sittin on the chesapeake bay building my own BAD A** web apps, sitting back, laughing, making nice cake! with, can you guess ladies and gentsCF Have you seen the Amazon.com taxonomy and recommendation engine? Something like that is actually really hard to do and generally takes some really smart people working as a team to pull it off. I may have a bigger ego than most when it comes to programming, but I wouldn't call the Amazon.com web app easy. -Matt __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: CF vs. ASP
Perhaps this is a really loaded question... but what is it that you want it to do? I have experienced issues with CF not doing things they way I'd like/expect it to... but rarely do I come across a problem that can't be solved in *some* way. -Novak - Original Message - From: Jochem van Dieten [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 5:18 PM Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP Matt Liotta wrote: I am not disagreeing that CF is faster to develop in. I am simply pointing out that it is not because one particular feature takes less lines to code in CF than another language. I suspect that just as much time is spent in another language learning an email library's API as is wasted by CFers trying to figure why cfmail doesn't do what it is supposed to. Worse. First I waste much time figuring out what CF does, then I learn something else because CF doesn't do what I want it to do. Jochem __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
Yeah I agree alot with Pablo. ASP has run time advantages up until recently with better speed throughput on pure pages served at once... but it misses caching database stuff as well as other things we take for granted... Code complexity due to syntax is severely out of whack on ASP like most other languages... CF does extremely well in this regard... Debugging ASP like other languages is a nightmare due to syntax - one of the leading cause of broken code... CF does a good job of throwing errors typically that make sense in English... very straightforward, less programming syntax approach.. The cost of CF app server is $500-5000 depending on your needs... Look at something like IBM's WebSphere and you will be sticker shocked... JRUN has always done well to combat the Java-oriented favoring crowed... CF's server license cost will be saved on one small project in human capital undoubtedly Things like session tracking, and load balancing are two things that drive everyone's apps into oblivion cost wise and are mainly handled out of box... I have sat and participated in large Java development efforts... I found myself saying things like well in CF I can do that natively... While these poor, very smart people scrambled to homebrew things... I mean they built everything... One of my favorite was a query cache piece... Ahh yeah CF has it built in.. How much did we pay for that? I would say a small development team with CF can produce a body of work typically far larger and with more relative complexity at a lower cost and in less time due to the logical simplification of syntax of CF... Sure, its the scripting vs. programming argument about to raise up.. But producing 40% more code to do the same basic things becomes a very bad idea always from my perspective... So things like PHP and ASP still have a ways to go to remove their C 'like' syntax as I think they try to badly emulate... Let's face it... Most web applications are simply about replicating basic tasks humans do... as that changes more interface will be made with XML... Things like EDI are faltering due to the power of the web and non proprietary rapid - do it now mentality... It will go across business to other things undoubtedly... CF apps will involve more business and less just fetch and display as most is now... There are still tons of things needing solved with Fetch and Display though... Free the information! To win you have to be responsive and reliable... CF meets these criteria... -paris Paris Lundis Founder Areaindex, L.L.C. http://www.areaindex.com http://www.pubcrawler.com (p) 1-212-655-4477 [finding the future in the past, passing the future in the present] [connecting people, places and things] -Original Message- From: Pablo Varando [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 8:14 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP You know to this day it still amazes me things people say! Kinda like the old Mac is better than Microsoft, or even better Microsoft is better than Mac. C'mon we all know Linux is better ;) ColdFusion and ASP are tool that you use to get things done. Each has it's pros and it's cons. If you are working to meet a deadline, ColdFusion is your best solution, if you are looking to charge your customer with more hours of work from a project ASP is better. In truth ColdFusion is much more mature (Sincee it has actually been around longer in the market) than ASP and therefore it most ways behaves better. I wonder where ASP would be if Allaire would of been as big a Microsoft when it was released? I mean think about the comparison of companies! Yes, ColdFusion costs money, ASP can be plugged in. For ASP you need add-ons, and in some cases you also do with CF (CFX Tags, etc...). But in truth knowing both ASP and ColdFusion (actually started with ASP... [needless to say I cannot even remember those days anymore ;)] I've really seen ColdFusion do things in half the time that ASP do. I still to this day believe that the languages are tools we use to achieve the things we want or need, if you want to use ASP, that's your choice, just don't knock one or the other. I personally prefer Coldfusion simply because in my opinion it's much more powerful, scalable and faster. It takes a lot less time to build my applications and even better when I hire an entry level CF programmer, it's MUCH MUCH easier to get them going on the coding. Not to mention that ColdFusion has the greatest Community online. :) Well, that was just my two cents on the matter... Pablo Varando http://www.cfpablo.com http://www.easycfm.com - Original Message - From: Tony Weeg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 4:47 PM Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP speak for yourself matt, since you dont have confidence in your work being the biggest baddest web apps in the world, it doesnt surprise me that you dont find cf as the same. its a shame, a darn shame, you seem to be a pretty
Re: CF vs. ASP
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Perhaps this is a really loaded question... but what is it that you want it to do? I want to spool email with attachments and be able to delete the attachments right away. Since the mail in the spoolfolder simply stores a reference to the file and only attaches the file when it is being sent, you have to wait with deleting the file until the email is sent. Jochem __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: CF vs. ASP
How often are you sending your mail? In most cases with email, you want to send it right away... in which case, the attachment would be deleted after the mail was sent. What type of setup/application are you building to require this different behavior? -Novak - Original Message - From: Jochem van Dieten [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 5:48 PM Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Perhaps this is a really loaded question... but what is it that you want it to do? I want to spool email with attachments and be able to delete the attachments right away. Since the mail in the spoolfolder simply stores a reference to the file and only attaches the file when it is being sent, you have to wait with deleting the file until the email is sent. Jochem __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
Well that is just what I was getting at. It is nice that CF has all this wrapped up functionality, but it comes at a price. That price is control. Sure there is usually a way to get it to do what you want, but that generally takes longer than it would have, had you just used a 3rd party library to begin with. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ V: 415-577-8070 F: 415-341-8906 P: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 5:41 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP Perhaps this is a really loaded question... but what is it that you want it to do? I have experienced issues with CF not doing things they way I'd like/expect it to... but rarely do I come across a problem that can't be solved in *some* way. -Novak - Original Message - From: Jochem van Dieten [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 5:18 PM Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP Matt Liotta wrote: I am not disagreeing that CF is faster to develop in. I am simply pointing out that it is not because one particular feature takes less lines to code in CF than another language. I suspect that just as much time is spent in another language learning an email library's API as is wasted by CFers trying to figure why cfmail doesn't do what it is supposed to. Worse. First I waste much time figuring out what CF does, then I learn something else because CF doesn't do what I want it to do. Jochem __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: CF vs. ASP
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How often are you sending your mail? In most cases with email, you want to send it right away... in which case, the attachment would be deleted after the mail was sent. Right, after it is sent. Not after it is spooled. What type of setup/application are you building to require this different behavior? There is nothing different about it. When you use cfmail, CF writes a file to the spoolfolder and picks it up some X seconds later in another thread and sends it. Unless you set the spoolenable attribute to FALSE, in which case you can wait for a while if you want to send a lot of email. Jochem __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: CF vs. ASP
Not necessarily. Truth is that by having it all built in on one place, you are simplying your life, not to mention that when you do run into trouble it's easier to get help and solutions. I'm sitting here asking myself, why you hate ColdFusion so much. It sounds to me like you are just being negative because you prefer using third party tools. Third party tools are cool, but at times they are tedious. Did I mention no support? Truth is that in this world, you get what you pay for: The cheap is expensive, and the expensive is cheap! By that I mean, if you try to cut corners, simply because it's $500.00. in the long run when the application crashes and the author of the module you used is no longer available, you'll be stuck with a non working application. The truth is that THAT is the beauty of Coldfusion, an all in one solution that is really affordable and easy to use. Think about that for a bit Pablo Varando http://www.cfpablo.com http://www.easycfm.com - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 5:56 PM Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP Well that is just what I was getting at. It is nice that CF has all this wrapped up functionality, but it comes at a price. That price is control. Sure there is usually a way to get it to do what you want, but that generally takes longer than it would have, had you just used a 3rd party library to begin with. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ V: 415-577-8070 F: 415-341-8906 P: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 5:41 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP Perhaps this is a really loaded question... but what is it that you want it to do? I have experienced issues with CF not doing things they way I'd like/expect it to... but rarely do I come across a problem that can't be solved in *some* way. -Novak - Original Message - From: Jochem van Dieten [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 5:18 PM Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP Matt Liotta wrote: I am not disagreeing that CF is faster to develop in. I am simply pointing out that it is not because one particular feature takes less lines to code in CF than another language. I suspect that just as much time is spent in another language learning an email library's API as is wasted by CFers trying to figure why cfmail doesn't do what it is supposed to. Worse. First I waste much time figuring out what CF does, then I learn something else because CF doesn't do what I want it to do. Jochem __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: CF vs. ASP
The emai spooling in most cases happens so fast, it's not really even understandable why you'd want to delete the attachemtn first anyways. In most cases you don't even realize the spooled email is there. How big are the files you are spooling? Maybe that is the problem? Pablo Varando http://www.cfpablo.com http://www.easycfm.com - Original Message - From: Jochem van Dieten [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 6:02 PM Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How often are you sending your mail? In most cases with email, you want to send it right away... in which case, the attachment would be deleted after the mail was sent. Right, after it is sent. Not after it is spooled. What type of setup/application are you building to require this different behavior? There is nothing different about it. When you use cfmail, CF writes a file to the spoolfolder and picks it up some X seconds later in another thread and sends it. Unless you set the spoolenable attribute to FALSE, in which case you can wait for a while if you want to send a lot of email. Jochem __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: CF vs. ASP
Sure... but the same could be said about ANY programming language. I certainly don't believe ColdFusion is the ultimate solution for EVERY job, just like I don't use a pipe wrench when I really need a hammer. UNLESS the pipe wrench will fix my problem faster than it would take me to get up, go to the garage, and get the hammer. :-) -Novak - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 5:56 PM Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP Well that is just what I was getting at. It is nice that CF has all this wrapped up functionality, but it comes at a price. That price is control. Sure there is usually a way to get it to do what you want, but that generally takes longer than it would have, had you just used a 3rd party library to begin with. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ V: 415-577-8070 F: 415-341-8906 P: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 5:41 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP Perhaps this is a really loaded question... but what is it that you want it to do? I have experienced issues with CF not doing things they way I'd like/expect it to... but rarely do I come across a problem that can't be solved in *some* way. -Novak - Original Message - From: Jochem van Dieten [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 5:18 PM Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP Matt Liotta wrote: I am not disagreeing that CF is faster to develop in. I am simply pointing out that it is not because one particular feature takes less lines to code in CF than another language. I suspect that just as much time is spent in another language learning an email library's API as is wasted by CFers trying to figure why cfmail doesn't do what it is supposed to. Worse. First I waste much time figuring out what CF does, then I learn something else because CF doesn't do what I want it to do. Jochem __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: CF vs. ASP
That was exactly what I was going to ask... are we talking large attachments or mass mailing which is chewing up disk space? What exactly is the nature of the problem? -Novak - Original Message - From: Pablo Varando [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 6:09 PM Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP The emai spooling in most cases happens so fast, it's not really even understandable why you'd want to delete the attachemtn first anyways. In most cases you don't even realize the spooled email is there. How big are the files you are spooling? Maybe that is the problem? Pablo Varando http://www.cfpablo.com http://www.easycfm.com - Original Message - From: Jochem van Dieten [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 6:02 PM Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How often are you sending your mail? In most cases with email, you want to send it right away... in which case, the attachment would be deleted after the mail was sent. Right, after it is sent. Not after it is spooled. What type of setup/application are you building to require this different behavior? There is nothing different about it. When you use cfmail, CF writes a file to the spoolfolder and picks it up some X seconds later in another thread and sends it. Unless you set the spoolenable attribute to FALSE, in which case you can wait for a while if you want to send a lot of email. Jochem __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
Not necessarily. Truth is that by having it all built in on one place, you are simplying your life, not to mention that when you do run into trouble it's easier to get help and solutions. Again, it is only easier when the built-in solution works. I am not sure why you are having such a hard time understanding the difference in time and effort of trying to make something built-in do something it was designed for vs. finding the right tool for the job. I'm sitting here asking myself, why you hate ColdFusion so much. It sounds to me like you are just being negative because you prefer using third party tools. Third party tools are cool, but at times they are tedious. Did I mention no support? People on this list are amazing. I haven't pointed out anything that is wrong with CF in this thread. I have simply pointed out that sometimes other solutions are better, which is far from hating CF. By that I mean, if you try to cut corners, simply because it's $500.00. in the long run when the application crashes and the author of the module you used is no longer available, you'll be stuck with a non working application. It is very rare that something as functional as some of the extensions mentioned in this thread would have only a single author. In fact, many times there are entire companies behind the open source effort. -Matt __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
Sure... but the same could be said about ANY programming language. But this isn't ANY-Talk. This is CF-Talk and we are discussing CF vs. ASP, which makes it relevant. I certainly don't believe ColdFusion is the ultimate solution for EVERY job, just like I don't use a pipe wrench when I really need a hammer. UNLESS the pipe wrench will fix my problem faster than it would take me to get up, go to the garage, and get the hammer. :-) That is a great attitude! Now if only the rest of the list would feel the same way. -Matt __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: CF vs. ASP
Pablo Varando wrote: The emai spooling in most cases happens so fast, it's not really even understandable why you'd want to delete the attachemtn first anyways. I don't. I've just been asked to build it. In most cases you don't even realize the spooled email is there. I see a problem in having to tell people in most cases you don't even realize if it worked or not. How big are the files you are spooling? Anywhere from 2 KB to 2 MB. Maybe that is the problem? No. Maybe the numbers are, but not the size. Jochem __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: CF vs. ASP
Well what code are you using to loop through and send the emails? Post an example, maybe that there's soething there that might be causing the problem. Pablo Varando http://www.cfpablo.com http://www.easycfm.com - Original Message - From: Jochem van Dieten [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 6:30 PM Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP Pablo Varando wrote: The emai spooling in most cases happens so fast, it's not really even understandable why you'd want to delete the attachemtn first anyways. I don't. I've just been asked to build it. In most cases you don't even realize the spooled email is there. I see a problem in having to tell people in most cases you don't even realize if it worked or not. How big are the files you are spooling? Anywhere from 2 KB to 2 MB. Maybe that is the problem? No. Maybe the numbers are, but not the size. Jochem __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: CF vs. ASP
I will agree that at times there are good tools you can implement to get the job done faster. A few come to mind like activeedit for textareas, etc... but I have yet to find a solution that I could not do myself in ColdFusion. sure it's easier (and sometimes) faster to integrate a third-party solution. But that is NOT always the best choice. The reason I said: I'm sitting here asking myself, why you hate ColdFusion so much is because every time some one replies to your answers/posts, you seem to find something wrong from that. All I'm saying is that Coldfusion in MY opinion is the best web development language. There are others that are good, but not good enough on my list. Truth is that if this was ASP-TALK then this converstaion would be exactly the opposite and since it's CF-TALK, of course we're going to defend the product we all believe (and know) is the best. Otherwise, we wouldn't be on this list Pablo Varando http://www.cfpablo.com http://www.easycfm.com - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 6:20 PM Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP Not necessarily. Truth is that by having it all built in on one place, you are simplying your life, not to mention that when you do run into trouble it's easier to get help and solutions. Again, it is only easier when the built-in solution works. I am not sure why you are having such a hard time understanding the difference in time and effort of trying to make something built-in do something it was designed for vs. finding the right tool for the job. I'm sitting here asking myself, why you hate ColdFusion so much. It sounds to me like you are just being negative because you prefer using third party tools. Third party tools are cool, but at times they are tedious. Did I mention no support? People on this list are amazing. I haven't pointed out anything that is wrong with CF in this thread. I have simply pointed out that sometimes other solutions are better, which is far from hating CF. By that I mean, if you try to cut corners, simply because it's $500.00. in the long run when the application crashes and the author of the module you used is no longer available, you'll be stuck with a non working application. It is very rare that something as functional as some of the extensions mentioned in this thread would have only a single author. In fact, many times there are entire companies behind the open source effort. -Matt __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
gratzie pablo, eloquently stated !!! tw -Original Message- From: Pablo Varando [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 9:43 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP I will agree that at times there are good tools you can implement to get the job done faster. A few come to mind like activeedit for textareas, etc... but I have yet to find a solution that I could not do myself in ColdFusion. sure it's easier (and sometimes) faster to integrate a third-party solution. But that is NOT always the best choice. The reason I said: I'm sitting here asking myself, why you hate ColdFusion so much is because every time some one replies to your answers/posts, you seem to find something wrong from that. All I'm saying is that Coldfusion in MY opinion is the best web development language. There are others that are good, but not good enough on my list. Truth is that if this was ASP-TALK then this converstaion would be exactly the opposite and since it's CF-TALK, of course we're going to defend the product we all believe (and know) is the best. Otherwise, we wouldn't be on this list Pablo Varando http://www.cfpablo.com http://www.easycfm.com - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 6:20 PM Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP Not necessarily. Truth is that by having it all built in on one place, you are simplying your life, not to mention that when you do run into trouble it's easier to get help and solutions. Again, it is only easier when the built-in solution works. I am not sure why you are having such a hard time understanding the difference in time and effort of trying to make something built-in do something it was designed for vs. finding the right tool for the job. I'm sitting here asking myself, why you hate ColdFusion so much. It sounds to me like you are just being negative because you prefer using third party tools. Third party tools are cool, but at times they are tedious. Did I mention no support? People on this list are amazing. I haven't pointed out anything that is wrong with CF in this thread. I have simply pointed out that sometimes other solutions are better, which is far from hating CF. By that I mean, if you try to cut corners, simply because it's $500.00. in the long run when the application crashes and the author of the module you used is no longer available, you'll be stuck with a non working application. It is very rare that something as functional as some of the extensions mentioned in this thread would have only a single author. In fact, many times there are entire companies behind the open source effort. -Matt __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: CF vs. ASP
:] Pablo Varando http://www.cfpablo.com http://www.easycfm.com - Original Message - From: Tony Weeg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 6:52 PM Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP gratzie pablo, eloquently stated !!! tw -Original Message- From: Pablo Varando [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 9:43 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP I will agree that at times there are good tools you can implement to get the job done faster. A few come to mind like activeedit for textareas, etc... but I have yet to find a solution that I could not do myself in ColdFusion. sure it's easier (and sometimes) faster to integrate a third-party solution. But that is NOT always the best choice. The reason I said: I'm sitting here asking myself, why you hate ColdFusion so much is because every time some one replies to your answers/posts, you seem to find something wrong from that. All I'm saying is that Coldfusion in MY opinion is the best web development language. There are others that are good, but not good enough on my list. Truth is that if this was ASP-TALK then this converstaion would be exactly the opposite and since it's CF-TALK, of course we're going to defend the product we all believe (and know) is the best. Otherwise, we wouldn't be on this list Pablo Varando http://www.cfpablo.com http://www.easycfm.com - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 6:20 PM Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP Not necessarily. Truth is that by having it all built in on one place, you are simplying your life, not to mention that when you do run into trouble it's easier to get help and solutions. Again, it is only easier when the built-in solution works. I am not sure why you are having such a hard time understanding the difference in time and effort of trying to make something built-in do something it was designed for vs. finding the right tool for the job. I'm sitting here asking myself, why you hate ColdFusion so much. It sounds to me like you are just being negative because you prefer using third party tools. Third party tools are cool, but at times they are tedious. Did I mention no support? People on this list are amazing. I haven't pointed out anything that is wrong with CF in this thread. I have simply pointed out that sometimes other solutions are better, which is far from hating CF. By that I mean, if you try to cut corners, simply because it's $500.00. in the long run when the application crashes and the author of the module you used is no longer available, you'll be stuck with a non working application. It is very rare that something as functional as some of the extensions mentioned in this thread would have only a single author. In fact, many times there are entire companies behind the open source effort. -Matt __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
The reason I said: I'm sitting here asking myself, why you hate ColdFusion so much is because every time some one replies to your answers/posts, you seem to find something wrong from that. I am just having a technical debate. My personal feelings don't enter into it. If I let my personal feelings get involved then I wouldn't even be part of the thread since I think ASP sucks. -Matt __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: CF vs. ASP
Thank you! First thing we agree on all day! :] I know that personal feelings don't necessarily enter, but maybe they do just a little! :/ Pablo Varando http://www.cfpablo.com http://www.easycfm.com - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 6:56 PM Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP The reason I said: I'm sitting here asking myself, why you hate ColdFusion so much is because every time some one replies to your answers/posts, you seem to find something wrong from that. I am just having a technical debate. My personal feelings don't enter into it. If I let my personal feelings get involved then I wouldn't even be part of the thread since I think ASP sucks. -Matt __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
Control is something that you need on when and if... That's the problem... Go off and be a C programmer or write Java... Until you collect your own tried and tested library of working things to do things we take for granted, you will be billing a ton of cash to achieve what we can natively... Control is a conditional thing only when you can't do with what is within the parameters... It reminds me of the Linux flames against windows... Let's face it, writing code for most people is a paycheck, not an intellectual purity pursuit... On the flip side, hiring a code writer is about efficiency, reliability and subtle perception issues... Client's tend not care about the intellectual purity pursuit... Business in the US is mostly an efficiency model.. cost less, work sooner... Anyone can level and uneven but opened minded client very easily to one side or the other... Just like spoken languages, there are many ways to communicate the point, all of which are fine and well suited for each individual group. -paris Paris Lundis Founder Areaindex, L.L.C. http://www.areaindex.com http://www.pubcrawler.com (p) 1-212-655-4477 [finding the future in the past, passing the future in the present] [connecting people, places and things] -Original Message- From: Pablo Varando [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 9:08 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP Not necessarily. Truth is that by having it all built in on one place, you are simplying your life, not to mention that when you do run into trouble it's easier to get help and solutions. I'm sitting here asking myself, why you hate ColdFusion so much. It sounds to me like you are just being negative because you prefer using third party tools. Third party tools are cool, but at times they are tedious. Did I mention no support? Truth is that in this world, you get what you pay for: The cheap is expensive, and the expensive is cheap! By that I mean, if you try to cut corners, simply because it's $500.00. in the long run when the application crashes and the author of the module you used is no longer available, you'll be stuck with a non working application. The truth is that THAT is the beauty of Coldfusion, an all in one solution that is really affordable and easy to use. Think about that for a bit Pablo Varando http://www.cfpablo.com http://www.easycfm.com - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 5:56 PM Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP Well that is just what I was getting at. It is nice that CF has all this wrapped up functionality, but it comes at a price. That price is control. Sure there is usually a way to get it to do what you want, but that generally takes longer than it would have, had you just used a 3rd party library to begin with. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ V: 415-577-8070 F: 415-341-8906 P: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 5:41 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP Perhaps this is a really loaded question... but what is it that you want it to do? I have experienced issues with CF not doing things they way I'd like/expect it to... but rarely do I come across a problem that can't be solved in *some* way. -Novak - Original Message - From: Jochem van Dieten [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 5:18 PM Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP Matt Liotta wrote: I am not disagreeing that CF is faster to develop in. I am simply pointing out that it is not because one particular feature takes less lines to code in CF than another language. I suspect that just as much time is spent in another language learning an email library's API as is wasted by CFers trying to figure why cfmail doesn't do what it is supposed to. Worse. First I waste much time figuring out what CF does, then I learn something else because CF doesn't do what I want it to do. Jochem __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: CF vs. ASP
Pablo Varando wrote: Well what code are you using to loop through and send the emails? cfset thefile = d:\cdr\p.jpg cfmail from=#email# to=#email# subject=test cfmailparam file=#thefile# test /cfmail cffile action=delete file=#thefile# Error in the mail.log: Error,scheduler-4,08/27/02,04:03:47,,Sending failed; nested exception is: javax.mail.MessagingException: IOException while sending message; nested exception is: java.io.FileNotFoundException: c:\cfusionmx\wwwroot\www\p.jpg (The system cannot find the file specified) Mail spool interval: 1 second. Post an example, maybe that there's soething there that might be causing the problem. Please take a good look at the mail spool format and see for yourself what is happening. Just read a spooled email with an attachment and it is quite obvious. Jochem __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
When I was learning CF I found the built-in functionality (e.g. cfform, cfmail) very useful. As my skills have developed, I have abandoned these for more powerful custom code. So while now I use more custom code, it was a rather gentle learning curve. I think this is a significant plus for CF over ASP. -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, 27 August 2002 1:57 p.m. To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs. ASP The reason I said: I'm sitting here asking myself, why you hate ColdFusion so much is because every time some one replies to your answers/posts, you seem to find something wrong from that. I am just having a technical debate. My personal feelings don't enter into it. If I let my personal feelings get involved then I wouldn't even be part of the thread since I think ASP sucks. __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
i guess the cfx_sleep tag to pause that for a second or two wouldnt suffice here? tw -Original Message- From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 10:15 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP Pablo Varando wrote: Well what code are you using to loop through and send the emails? cfset thefile = d:\cdr\p.jpg cfmail from=#email# to=#email# subject=test cfmailparam file=#thefile# test /cfmail cffile action=delete file=#thefile# Error in the mail.log: Error,scheduler-4,08/27/02,04:03:47,,Sending failed; nested exception is: javax.mail.MessagingException: IOException while sending message; nested exception is: java.io.FileNotFoundException: c:\cfusionmx\wwwroot\www\p.jpg (The system cannot find the file specified) Mail spool interval: 1 second. Post an example, maybe that there's soething there that might be causing the problem. Please take a good look at the mail spool format and see for yourself what is happening. Just read a spooled email with an attachment and it is quite obvious. Jochem __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: CF vs. ASP
Ok, and how are you calling this page? From a URL or via Customtag(Include)? Pablo Varando http://www.cfpablo.com http://www.easycfm.com - Original Message - From: Jochem van Dieten [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 7:14 PM Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP Pablo Varando wrote: Well what code are you using to loop through and send the emails? cfset thefile = d:\cdr\p.jpg cfmail from=#email# to=#email# subject=test cfmailparam file=#thefile# test /cfmail cffile action=delete file=#thefile# Error in the mail.log: Error,scheduler-4,08/27/02,04:03:47,,Sending failed; nested exception is: javax.mail.MessagingException: IOException while sending message; nested exception is: java.io.FileNotFoundException: c:\cfusionmx\wwwroot\www\p.jpg (The system cannot find the file specified) Mail spool interval: 1 second. Post an example, maybe that there's soething there that might be causing the problem. Please take a good look at the mail spool format and see for yourself what is happening. Just read a spooled email with an attachment and it is quite obvious. Jochem __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF vs. ASP
The problem here is that cfmail doesn't block while the file is in the spool. You are either going to need to adapt your code to support some sort of asynchronous events or use a mail library you can serialize e.g. javax.mail. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ V: 415-577-8070 F: 415-341-8906 P: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 7:15 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF vs. ASP Pablo Varando wrote: Well what code are you using to loop through and send the emails? cfset thefile = d:\cdr\p.jpg cfmail from=#email# to=#email# subject=test cfmailparam file=#thefile# test /cfmail cffile action=delete file=#thefile# Error in the mail.log: Error,scheduler-4,08/27/02,04:03:47,,Sending failed; nested exception is: javax.mail.MessagingException: IOException while sending message; nested exception is: java.io.FileNotFoundException: c:\cfusionmx\wwwroot\www\p.jpg (The system cannot find the file specified) Mail spool interval: 1 second. Post an example, maybe that there's soething there that might be causing the problem. Please take a good look at the mail spool format and see for yourself what is happening. Just read a spooled email with an attachment and it is quite obvious. Jochem __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: CF vs. ASP
Interesting question... I was just making the same argument (on another list) for CF vs WiTango (replacement for Pervasive's Tango). Tango was/is (approximately) DWMX, CFMX/JRun and a pretty good RDBMS all rolled into one --- with the ability to develop web and desktop applications on/for win, Linux, Mac. Perspective is a funny thing! Dick On Monday, August 26, 2002, at 05:24 PM, Alex wrote: What's more important here is where will you, the CF developer, be if macromedia goes out of business. __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: CF vs. ASP
On Monday, August 26, 2002, at 05:56 PM, Matt Liotta wrote:
Well that is just what I was getting at. It is nice that CF has all
this
wrapped up functionality, but it comes at a price. That price is
control. Sure there is usually a way to get it to do what you want, but
that generally takes longer than it would have, had you just used a 3rd
party library to begin with.
I don't know... I do most of an app in CF ('cause it's fast and easy).
Every now and again I will use cfobject (pre CFMX) to do things that CF
can't do -- like return a columnlist from a query in the same order in
which the columns were defined in the db (I know, I know -- it's an
interactive query utility).
Point is :
CF = high productivity 80-90% of the time
ASP-Like cfobject = more granular control 10-20% 0f the time
Seems to be a pretty good mix.
FOR CFMX, SSpose I need to learn Java well enough to replace the
cfobject capability!
Yeah, I can do ASP Perl, but I am not productive enough to make a
profit doing it!
DICK
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Re: CF vs. ASP
Claro! On Monday, August 26, 2002, at 06:07 PM, Pablo Varando wrote: The truth is that THAT is the beauty of Coldfusion, an all in one solution that is really affordable and easy to use. __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: CF vs. ASP
Matt I think the problem is that the alternative being discussed is from MSoft and the natural reaction is to barf if something is being shoved down your throat -- common sense and merits adide! Dick On Monday, August 26, 2002, at 06:20 PM, Matt Liotta wrote: People on this list are amazing. I haven't pointed out anything that is wrong with CF in this thread. I have simply pointed out that sometimes other solutions are better, which is far from hating CF. __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: CF vs. ASP
At 09:14 AM 8/27/2002, you wrote: cfset thefile = d:\cdr\p.jpg cfmail from=#email# to=#email# subject=test cfmailparam file=#thefile# test /cfmail cffile action=delete file=#thefile# Error in the mail.log: Error,scheduler-4,08/27/02,04:03:47,,Sending failed; nested exception is: javax.mail.MessagingException: IOException while sending message; nested exception is:java.io.FileNotFoundException: c:\cfusionmx\wwwroot\www\p.jpg (The system cannot find the file specified) WOW! Jochem, this is weird. First i thought the first time cfmail being executed within .cfm script, it creates an email-msg file containing all data, including attachments if any. But apparently it doesn't :( Do you know if this particular behaviour occur in CF 5? or just CFMX? Rizal __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: CF VS ASP - let the trolling being
I have to agree that CF is easier and faster to use than ASP. However, ASP does have the advantage of PWS. Does CF have an equivalent? I started out with ASP, then used CF for two years, and now I'm using ASP again. I'm not ecstatic about it, but I have found a couple of advantages: 1. Thanks to PWS, if I want to work from home, I can just copy the ASP site to my home computer. With CF I had to work across a cable connection which slowed things down a bit. Of course, I have to access the database over the network either way, but the web files can be retrieved and saved faster with PWS. 2. One of our web sites is not only used by people on-line, but also by field personnel who use laptops, and have to upload and download data. Thanks to PWS and MSDE, they will be able to use the same ASP pages as the on-line users, while using DTS to transfer data back and fourth. In a similar situation with CF, we had to develop a separate Access application for the field team members. Some other more obvious advantages is that ASP is free and can be developed in a simple word processor, if need be. Microsoft is also a huge name, whether you like them or not, and it doesn't hurt to know how to user their technology. Marianne Daye Programmer/Analyst -Original Message- From: Thane Sherrington [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 3:09 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF VS ASP - let the trolling being At 12:06 PM 4/3/02 -0800, David Schmidt wrote: If he's willing to fork the bucks for the training. Grab hold, hang on, and take what you can learn. A cold hearted approach (but I think wise) would be to get the training paid for, and then move to a company that is more reasonable. T __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
