Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Hi, I'm running it on a pentium 166,and have run it on a pentium 100. Dan Mark Hillary wrote: Windows 98 doesn't run on 166Mhz, the install program doesn't allow the install. Mark Hillary - Original Message - From: "goldenpi" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 3:08 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux Look at this number sequence: 512k 1m 4m 8m 32m see how quickly it goes up? They are the memory requirements for windows. dos would word with 512k. windows 3.11 needed 4 meg. windows 95 needed 8 meg. Windows 98 needed 32Meg. Whistler will need so much people will have to buy more. And look at processers: dos : 8086 win3.11 : 80286 win95 : 80386 win98 : unknown win me : 166MHz thats enough that I managed to fty my laptop processor when I tried to overclock it and run windows me. It cost £25 for a new pentium 166. On Fri, 29 Dec 2000, you wrote: Romanator wrote: Revenant wrote: Clarification: Millenium is MS eking the last $$$ it can out of the dying Win9x OS. Whistler will be what Win2000 was supposed to be - the fusion of the NT line with the Win9x line. It is supposed to be a very different beast to the Win9x line, including ME... Have you noticed that the OS is getting bigger and bigger? They are pushing our resources to their limits. shrug Our resource limits are increasing. Most software aims to take maximum advantage of the hardware available. Now that the industry standard machine is a PIII, I'd be disappointed if the OS didn't have additional functionality. That said, Windows *does* seem to have more than its fair share of bloat... Society Design Mailing List http://www.egroups.com/group/Society_Design For any and all aspects of designing societies, from discussion of real- world utopian ideas to fantastic fictional or roleplaying worlds. ---Revenant [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] -- -- == Goldenpi - linux user, unreal editor, programer in 3 languages and all round geek.
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Well it errored when I tried to install it an just rebooted the machine. Mark Hillary - Original Message - From: "Eugene C. Zesch" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2000 8:21 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux Mark Hillary wrote: Windows 98 doesn't run on 166Mhz, the install program doesn't allow the install. Simply not true. It ran on mine till I erased it in favor of Mandrake 6.0. Gene
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Abiword or Kwork can open Ms Word files. Or you could just save them in RTF which can be opened by anything. I my self am at Sixform an my school have a windows NT network with word 2000 and there is not a drop of windows on my box anymore. Mark Hillary - Original Message - From: "Goldenpi" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2000 8:19 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux I installed 98 after melting my P200MMX in the laptop. I just wanted to get it up to 166. It should have worked but I didn't know the core voltage was too high. I thought it was just a cooling problem and tried to fix it by stuffing the heatsink with thermal paste. I ended up buying a p166 with my birthday money and that will do 166 easy. So now I have bindows 98 on it. I want to put on mandrake 7.1 but the hard drive is only 1 gig. I need 98 for school. They insist I use a popular word processor and that means word. Soon as I get enough for a bigger drive its getting linux. - Original Message - From: Mark Hillary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2000 5:11 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux Windows 98 doesn't run on 166Mhz, the install program doesn't allow the install. Mark Hillary - Original Message - From: "goldenpi" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 3:08 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux Look at this number sequence: 512k 1m 4m 8m 32m see how quickly it goes up? They are the memory requirements for windows. dos would word with 512k. windows 3.11 needed 4 meg. windows 95 needed 8 meg. Windows 98 needed 32Meg. Whistler will need so much people will have to buy more. And look at processers: dos : 8086 win3.11 : 80286 win95 : 80386 win98 : unknown win me : 166MHz thats enough that I managed to fty my laptop processor when I tried to overclock it and run windows me. It cost £25 for a new pentium 166. On Fri, 29 Dec 2000, you wrote: Romanator wrote: Revenant wrote: Clarification: Millenium is MS eking the last $$$ it can out of the dying Win9x OS. Whistler will be what Win2000 was supposed to be - the fusion of the NT line with the Win9x line. It is supposed to be a very different beast to the Win9x line, including ME... Have you noticed that the OS is getting bigger and bigger? They are pushing our resources to their limits. shrug Our resource limits are increasing. Most software aims to take maximum advantage of the hardware available. Now that the industry standard machine is a PIII, I'd be disappointed if the OS didn't have additional functionality. That said, Windows *does* seem to have more than its fair share of bloat... Society Design Mailing List http://www.egroups.com/group/Society_Design For any and all aspects of designing societies, from discussion of real- world utopian ideas to fantastic fictional or roleplaying worlds. ---Revenant [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] -- -- == Goldenpi - linux user, unreal editor, programer in 3 languages and all round geek.
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Why are you using windows 98 on a file server, come on this is a job for linux. Mark Hillary - Original Message - From: "James Mellema" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 1:26 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux Mark Hillary wrote: Windows 98 doesn't run on 166Mhz, the install program doesn't allow the install. Mark Hillary It runs just fine on the P 133 file server on my home network. Well, not fine its slow and if I run programs on it it crashes, but as a network backup/file server and storage facility it works just fine. The only program it runs routinely is SETI and it takes close to 400 hours to do a run. -- Jim -- James Mellema, CRNA -- Linux User # 71650
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
I heard rumers. Perhaps microsoft has realised people can use f8 to get to dos and want to remove that so they can chage $10,000 to send a repair man with a boot disk over when it goes wrong. On Thu, 28 Dec 2000, you wrote: There's an update to Millennium coming out later this year. I think it's name is Whistler. goldenpi wrote: Give it time. I have just seen windows millenium and I can assure you it will not last. It is awful. It is slow. It takes up half my hard drive and then its optional parts take the rest. And it doesn't work. Windows 2k however is here to stay. I haven't seen it running but I have heard of it. On Tue, 26 Dec 2000, you wrote: - Original Message - From: David Raleigh Arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 5:17 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux I am locked into bad mouse support by 2-button mouse users. Linux mouse support is hardly configurable at all. I have seen the sawfish mouse dialog. Ridiculous. Very true indeed. Kde should build a special mouse driver for mice that have a scrol wheel and side buttons. Mine has four buttons and a scroll wheel. And the people who make the mice should write software for linux also. After all there are a lot of people using linux today. I feel that if every one using linux sent email to the logitech company asking for drivers/software for there products then they might do something about it. i just bought a new printer, a lexmark Z32 because they have drivers for linux. And the Z52 has drivers for linux also. My mouse is a ms intelli mouse explorer and whith the software for windoze I can get the buttons to do what ever I want them to do, and I can change the icons as well. But I bought it because it does not have a ball in it and can use it as either ps2 or usb. I also feel that linux should have surport for IDE CD Burners, not just SCSI. Regards Anthony Daniell -- == Goldenpi - linux user, unreal editor, programer in 3 languages and all round geek. -- Roman Registered Linux User #179293 -- == Goldenpi - linux user, unreal editor, programer in 3 languages and all round geek.
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Winme is unfixable. If you accidently lose the drivers for the video card you cant fix it from dos. Dos does nothing. You cant reboot in dos, you cant even get to a dos prompt. I wonder how you pass command line stuff? On Thu, 28 Dec 2000, you wrote: On Thursday 28 December 2000 03:06, you wrote: There's an update to Millennium coming out later this year. I think it's name is Whistler. Yeah...that short for "Whistle friggin dixie while you wait for ever for your computer to stinkin work correctly cause this OS sucks!" I'm sorry. Win 95B is a good one and 98SE isn't too bad as long as you keep the registry squeeky clean; NT4.0 with "all" the service pack installed and kept clean will run well too, but WinME is a joke! What were they thinking? Sorry to the list cause this ain't a windows forum. Nowdie...thread DIE! :) -- Mark "If you don't share your concepts and ideals, they end up being worthless," "Sharing is what makes them powerful." Linus Torvalds -- == Goldenpi - linux user, unreal editor, programer in 3 languages and all round geek.
RE: [newbie] gates gets Linux
In other words, nothing will work. Anything that would not work under nt will nt work under whistler. Then m$ can start chargeing for all sorts of unneeded patches. On Thu, 28 Dec 2000, you wrote: Whistler is no an "update" to Windows ME. It is the complete replacement of all previous "consumer" Windows versions (Win95, Win98, WinME) with a Windows NT based code source. What this means for Microsoft is that all "markets" - consumer, workstation and server - will have the same code base. Some of the GUI shell stuff will be different between the consumer and workstation/server versions no doubt, but the core OS will be NT based. Cheers and Happy New Year to all, Rick -Original Message- From: Romanator Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 7:07 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux There's an update to Millennium coming out later this year. I think it's name is Whistler. goldenpi wrote: Give it time. I have just seen windows millenium and I can assure you it will . .. .. -- == Goldenpi - linux user, unreal editor, programer in 3 languages and all round geek.
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Look at this number sequence: 512k 1m 4m 8m 32m see how quickly it goes up? They are the memory requirements for windows. dos would word with 512k. windows 3.11 needed 4 meg. windows 95 needed 8 meg. Windows 98 needed 32Meg. Whistler will need so much people will have to buy more. And look at processers: dos : 8086 win3.11 : 80286 win95 : 80386 win98 : unknown win me : 166MHz thats enough that I managed to fty my laptop processor when I tried to overclock it and run windows me. It cost £25 for a new pentium 166. On Fri, 29 Dec 2000, you wrote: Romanator wrote: Revenant wrote: Clarification: Millenium is MS eking the last $$$ it can out of the dying Win9x OS. Whistler will be what Win2000 was supposed to be - the fusion of the NT line with the Win9x line. It is supposed to be a very different beast to the Win9x line, including ME... Have you noticed that the OS is getting bigger and bigger? They are pushing our resources to their limits. shrug Our resource limits are increasing. Most software aims to take maximum advantage of the hardware available. Now that the industry standard machine is a PIII, I'd be disappointed if the OS didn't have additional functionality. That said, Windows *does* seem to have more than its fair share of bloat... Society Design Mailing List http://www.egroups.com/group/Society_Design For any and all aspects of designing societies, from discussion of real- world utopian ideas to fantastic fictional or roleplaying worlds. ---Revenant [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] -- -- == Goldenpi - linux user, unreal editor, programer in 3 languages and all round geek.
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Ah - good one!! goldenpi wrote: I heard rumers. Perhaps microsoft has realised people can use f8 to get to dos and want to remove that so they can chage $10,000 to send a repair man with a boot disk over when it goes wrong. On Thu, 28 Dec 2000, you wrote: There's an update to Millennium coming out later this year. I think it's name is Whistler. goldenpi wrote: Give it time. I have just seen windows millenium and I can assure you it will not last. It is awful. It is slow. It takes up half my hard drive and then its optional parts take the rest. And it doesn't work. Windows 2k however is here to stay. I haven't seen it running but I have heard of it. On Tue, 26 Dec 2000, you wrote: - Original Message - From: David Raleigh Arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 5:17 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux I am locked into bad mouse support by 2-button mouse users. Linux mouse support is hardly configurable at all. I have seen the sawfish mouse dialog. Ridiculous. Very true indeed. Kde should build a special mouse driver for mice that have a scrol wheel and side buttons. Mine has four buttons and a scroll wheel. And the people who make the mice should write software for linux also. After all there are a lot of people using linux today. I feel that if every one using linux sent email to the logitech company asking for drivers/software for there products then they might do something about it. i just bought a new printer, a lexmark Z32 because they have drivers for linux. And the Z52 has drivers for linux also. My mouse is a ms intelli mouse explorer and whith the software for windoze I can get the buttons to do what ever I want them to do, and I can change the icons as well. But I bought it because it does not have a ball in it and can use it as either ps2 or usb. I also feel that linux should have surport for IDE CD Burners, not just SCSI. Regards Anthony Daniell -- == Goldenpi - linux user, unreal editor, programer in 3 languages and all round geek. -- Roman Registered Linux User #179293 -- == Goldenpi - linux user, unreal editor, programer in 3 languages and all round geek.
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Windows 98 doesn't run on 166Mhz, the install program doesn't allow the install. Mark Hillary - Original Message - From: "goldenpi" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 3:08 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux Look at this number sequence: 512k 1m 4m 8m 32m see how quickly it goes up? They are the memory requirements for windows. dos would word with 512k. windows 3.11 needed 4 meg. windows 95 needed 8 meg. Windows 98 needed 32Meg. Whistler will need so much people will have to buy more. And look at processers: dos : 8086 win3.11 : 80286 win95 : 80386 win98 : unknown win me : 166MHz thats enough that I managed to fty my laptop processor when I tried to overclock it and run windows me. It cost £25 for a new pentium 166. On Fri, 29 Dec 2000, you wrote: Romanator wrote: Revenant wrote: Clarification: Millenium is MS eking the last $$$ it can out of the dying Win9x OS. Whistler will be what Win2000 was supposed to be - the fusion of the NT line with the Win9x line. It is supposed to be a very different beast to the Win9x line, including ME... Have you noticed that the OS is getting bigger and bigger? They are pushing our resources to their limits. shrug Our resource limits are increasing. Most software aims to take maximum advantage of the hardware available. Now that the industry standard machine is a PIII, I'd be disappointed if the OS didn't have additional functionality. That said, Windows *does* seem to have more than its fair share of bloat... Society Design Mailing List http://www.egroups.com/group/Society_Design For any and all aspects of designing societies, from discussion of real- world utopian ideas to fantastic fictional or roleplaying worlds. ---Revenant [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] -- -- == Goldenpi - linux user, unreal editor, programer in 3 languages and all round geek.
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
I installed 98 after melting my P200MMX in the laptop. I just wanted to get it up to 166. It should have worked but I didn't know the core voltage was too high. I thought it was just a cooling problem and tried to fix it by stuffing the heatsink with thermal paste. I ended up buying a p166 with my birthday money and that will do 166 easy. So now I have bindows 98 on it. I want to put on mandrake 7.1 but the hard drive is only 1 gig. I need 98 for school. They insist I use a popular word processor and that means word. Soon as I get enough for a bigger drive its getting linux. - Original Message - From: Mark Hillary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2000 5:11 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux Windows 98 doesn't run on 166Mhz, the install program doesn't allow the install. Mark Hillary - Original Message - From: "goldenpi" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 3:08 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux Look at this number sequence: 512k 1m 4m 8m 32m see how quickly it goes up? They are the memory requirements for windows. dos would word with 512k. windows 3.11 needed 4 meg. windows 95 needed 8 meg. Windows 98 needed 32Meg. Whistler will need so much people will have to buy more. And look at processers: dos : 8086 win3.11 : 80286 win95 : 80386 win98 : unknown win me : 166MHz thats enough that I managed to fty my laptop processor when I tried to overclock it and run windows me. It cost £25 for a new pentium 166. On Fri, 29 Dec 2000, you wrote: Romanator wrote: Revenant wrote: Clarification: Millenium is MS eking the last $$$ it can out of the dying Win9x OS. Whistler will be what Win2000 was supposed to be - the fusion of the NT line with the Win9x line. It is supposed to be a very different beast to the Win9x line, including ME... Have you noticed that the OS is getting bigger and bigger? They are pushing our resources to their limits. shrug Our resource limits are increasing. Most software aims to take maximum advantage of the hardware available. Now that the industry standard machine is a PIII, I'd be disappointed if the OS didn't have additional functionality. That said, Windows *does* seem to have more than its fair share of bloat... Society Design Mailing List http://www.egroups.com/group/Society_Design For any and all aspects of designing societies, from discussion of real- world utopian ideas to fantastic fictional or roleplaying worlds. ---Revenant [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] -- -- == Goldenpi - linux user, unreal editor, programer in 3 languages and all round geek.
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Mark Hillary wrote: Windows 98 doesn't run on 166Mhz, the install program doesn't allow the install. Simply not true. It ran on mine till I erased it in favor of Mandrake 6.0. Gene
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux - DIE THREAD DIE!
DAMN! I even try filtering this stinking thread out and it just won't GO AWAY! Ok...I know this is going to come as a shock to some, but THIS is a LINUX forum and NOT a WINDOWS forum. Can we PLEASE discuss our windows elsewhere? Please?? On Saturday 30 December 2000 10:03, you wrote: HP are bad. I have a computer of theirs here. It wont format for windows. Ever. I have to use their utility to format it. Their sound card is a custom board which only works on their motherboard. They dont supply drivers. The drivers come preinstalled so when I wanted to upgrade to windows 98 I has to get a new card. Ditto for the video card It came with a cd rom. The cd-rom had been rewired so it could not be replaced except with a hp cdrom. I had to rewire half the motherboard to make mine work. Modem is a winmodem. There are bits missing from the motherboard. uarts, cooling fan is undersized, no reset button. Cheap. On Thu, 28 Dec 2000, you wrote: Does HP make their own printer drivers as well? If I had the e mail address I would e mail them and tell them they need to write linux drivers for their mice On Tue, 26 Dec 2000, Anthony Daniell wrote: - Original Message - From: David Raleigh Arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 5:17 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux I am locked into bad mouse support by 2-button mouse users. Linux mouse support is hardly configurable at all. I have seen the sawfish mouse dialog. Ridiculous. Very true indeed. Kde should build a special mouse driver for mice that have a scrol wheel and side buttons. Mine has four buttons and a scroll wheel. And the people who make the mice should write software for linux also. After all there are a lot of people using linux today. I feel that if every one using linux sent email to the logitech company asking for drivers/software for there products then they might do something about it. i just bought a new printer, a lexmark Z32 because they have drivers for linux. And the Z52 has drivers for linux also. My mouse is a ms intelli mouse explorer and whith the software for windoze I can get the buttons to do what ever I want them to do, and I can change the icons as well. But I bought it because it does not have a ball in it and can use it as either ps2 or usb. I also feel that linux should have surport for IDE CD Burners, not just SCSI. Regards Anthony Daniell -- Mark "If you don't share your concepts and ideals, they end up being worthless," "Sharing is what makes them powerful." Linus Torvalds
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Hi, Are you sure that they will accept only *word* as a acceptable word-processor? For Linux you can install Corel's WordPerfect8, it's also a popular wp for windows, hope this helps. Have a Happy New Year, Herman Goldenpi wrote: I installed 98 after melting my P200MMX in the laptop. I just wanted to get it up to 166. It should have worked but I didn't know the core voltage was too high. I thought it was just a cooling problem and tried to fix it by stuffing the heatsink with thermal paste. I ended up buying a p166 with my birthday money and that will do 166 easy. So now I have bindows 98 on it. I want to put on mandrake 7.1 but the hard drive is only 1 gig. I need 98 for school. They insist I use a popular word processor and that means word. Soon as I get enough for a bigger drive its getting linux. - Original Message - From: Mark Hillary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2000 5:11 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux Windows 98 doesn't run on 166Mhz, the install program doesn't allow the install. Mark Hillary - Original Message - From: "goldenpi" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 3:08 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux Look at this number sequence: 512k 1m 4m 8m 32m see how quickly it goes up? They are the memory requirements for windows. dos would word with 512k. windows 3.11 needed 4 meg. windows 95 needed 8 meg. Windows 98 needed 32Meg. Whistler will need so much people will have to buy more. And look at processers: dos : 8086 win3.11 : 80286 win95 : 80386 win98 : unknown win me : 166MHz thats enough that I managed to fty my laptop processor when I tried to overclock it and run windows me. It cost £25 for a new pentium 166. On Fri, 29 Dec 2000, you wrote: Romanator wrote: Revenant wrote: Clarification: Millenium is MS eking the last $$$ it can out of the dying Win9x OS. Whistler will be what Win2000 was supposed to be - the fusion of the NT line with the Win9x line. It is supposed to be a very different beast to the Win9x line, including ME... Have you noticed that the OS is getting bigger and bigger? They are pushing our resources to their limits. shrug Our resource limits are increasing. Most software aims to take maximum advantage of the hardware available. Now that the industry standard machine is a PIII, I'd be disappointed if the OS didn't have additional functionality. That said, Windows *does* seem to have more than its fair share of bloat... Society Design Mailing List http://www.egroups.com/group/Society_Design For any and all aspects of designing societies, from discussion of real- world utopian ideas to fantastic fictional or roleplaying worlds. ---Revenant [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] -- -- == Goldenpi - linux user, unreal editor, programer in 3 languages and all round geek.
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Mark Hillary wrote: Windows 98 doesn't run on 166Mhz, the install program doesn't allow the install. Mark Hillary It runs just fine on the P 133 file server on my home network. Well, not fine its slow and if I run programs on it it crashes, but as a network backup/file server and storage facility it works just fine. The only program it runs routinely is SETI and it takes close to 400 hours to do a run. -- Jim -- James Mellema, CRNA -- Linux User # 71650
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Hi Roman,
Have a happy new year. I'm going to. I am playing with kde now trying
trying to upgrade to 2.0.1 and having a ball.
Anthony Daniell (Tony)
Romanator wrote:
Hey Tony,
Have a Happy New Year.
Cheers!
--
Roman
Registered Linux User #179293
Anthony Daniell wrote:
Ok I think you can contact them at
[EMAIL PROTECTED] but I am still waiting for a reply to my email about there
cameras and that was three weeks ago.
Anthony Daniell.
- Original Message -
From: "Vic" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2000 2:19 AM
Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Does HP make their own printer drivers as well?
If I had the e mail address I would
e mail them and tell them they need
to write linux drivers for their mice
On Tue, 26 Dec 2000, Anthony Daniell wrote:
- Original Message -
From: David Raleigh Arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
I am locked into bad mouse support by 2-button mouse users. Linux mouse
support is hardly configurable at all. I have seen the sawfish mouse
dialog. Ridiculous.
Very true indeed. Kde should build a special mouse driver for mice that
have
a scrol wheel and side buttons. Mine has four buttons and a scroll
wheel.
And the people who make the mice should write software for linux also.
After
all there are a lot of people using linux today.
I feel that if every one using linux sent email to the logitech company
asking for drivers/software for there products then they might do
something
about it. i just bought a new printer, a lexmark Z32 because they have
drivers for linux. And the Z52 has drivers for linux also.
My mouse is a ms intelli mouse explorer and whith the software for
windoze I
can get the buttons to do what ever I want them to do, and I can change
the
icons as well. But I bought it because it does not have a ball in it and
can
use it as either ps2 or usb.
I also feel that linux should have surport for IDE CD Burners, not just
SCSI.
Regards Anthony Daniell
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Paul Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 11:47 PM On Fri, 29 Dec 2000, Revenant wrote: Have you noticed that the OS is getting bigger and bigger? They are pushing our resources to their limits. shrug Our resource limits are increasing. Most software aims to take maximum advantage of the hardware available. Now that the industry standard machine is a PIII, I'd be disappointed if the OS didn't have additional functionality. But not more speed. Lotus 1.2.3 version 1 that ran on the original 8086 is equally fast as excel2000 on the 800Mhz P-III. Paul Perhaps. But given that Excel2000 is running graphically at 1024x768x32 or higher under a multi-tasking operating system, while Lotus 1.2.3v1 is running under a single-tasking text-based OS, this is more impressive than it sounds. Society Design Mailing List http://www.egroups.com/group/Society_Design For any and all aspects of designing societies, from discussion of real- world utopian ideas to fantastic fictional or roleplaying worlds. ---Revenant [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] --
RE: [newbie] gates gets Linux
But Excel2000 has a LOT more functionality than Lotus 123 version 1 had! Plus Lotus 123 ver 1 cost (not counting inflation) MORE then than the professional version of Office 2000 (including Word, PowerPoint and Access) cost now!! PLUS the 8086 PC cost 3 times (not counting inflation) MORE than my p3-800 PC !!! IF you consider inflation where the dollar is now only hlaf as valuable, I think things have gotten MUCH better, and this is a bad comparison, don't you Paul? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Paul Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 11:47 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux On Fri, 29 Dec 2000, Revenant wrote: Have you noticed that the OS is getting bigger and bigger? They are pushing our resources to their limits. shrug Our resource limits are increasing. Most software aims to take maximum advantage of the hardware available. Now that the industry standard machine is a PIII, I'd be disappointed if the OS didn't have additional functionality. But not more speed. Lotus 1.2.3 version 1 that ran on the original 8086 is equally fast as excel2000 on the 800Mhz P-III. Paul -- Save our trees: Stop printing tax forms! http://nlpagan.net - ICQ 147208 - Registered Linux User 174403 Linux Mandrake 7.2 - Pine 4.31
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
On Thursday 28 December 2000 21:19, you wrote: ok, millennium edition is the last microsoft OS built on the win9x kernel (mixed 16 and 32bit kernel). Win NT, 2000 and whistler are all true 32bit OS and are based on a different kernel. Microsoft wants to get everyone using 32bit OS's and that is why millennium edition's gui looks almost exactly like win2k's. Whistler is the follow up to win2k. There will be a number of different versions of it, home, professional, server, data center. Basically it'll get microsoft into a point where they only have to support one OS with different flavors rather then the hell they have now. Also, winNT/win2k's memory management is a *little bit* better then win9x so they are a bit more stable or should I say that they are less crash prone? In theory anyway, why is it that no microsoft OS is stable for more then a month or two? My experience is that win2k is like a giant 1950's american car. Its a boat, slow to start, breaks often, and requires a ton of maintanence. Registy cleaning often helps keep it reliable. Civileme Abe Romanator wrote: There's an update to Millennium coming out later this year. I think it's name is Whistler. goldenpi wrote: Give it time. I have just seen windows millenium and I can assure you it will not last. It is awful. It is slow. It takes up half my hard drive and then its optional parts take the rest. And it doesn't work. Windows 2k however is here to stay. I haven't seen it running but I have heard of it. On Tue, 26 Dec 2000, you wrote: - Original Message - From: David Raleigh Arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 5:17 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux I am locked into bad mouse support by 2-button mouse users. Linux mouse support is hardly configurable at all. I have seen the sawfish mouse dialog. Ridiculous. Very true indeed. Kde should build a special mouse driver for mice that have a scrol wheel and side buttons. Mine has four buttons and a scroll wheel. And the people who make the mice should write software for linux also. After all there are a lot of people using linux today. I feel that if every one using linux sent email to the logitech company asking for drivers/software for there products then they might do something about it. i just bought a new printer, a lexmark Z32 because they have drivers for linux. And the Z52 has drivers for linux also. My mouse is a ms intelli mouse explorer and whith the software for windoze I can get the buttons to do what ever I want them to do, and I can change the icons as well. But I bought it because it does not have a ball in it and can use it as either ps2 or usb. I also feel that linux should have surport for IDE CD Burners, not just SCSI. Regards Anthony Daniell -- == Goldenpi - linux user, unreal editor, programer in 3 languages and all round geek. -- Roman Registered Linux User #179293
RE: [newbie] gates gets Linux
But Excel2000 has a LOT more functionality than Lotus 123 version 1 had! Plus Lotus 123 ver 1 cost (not counting inflation) MORE then than the professional version of Office 2000 (including Word, PowerPoint and Access) cost now!! PLUS the 8086 PC cost 3 times (not counting inflation) MORE than my p3-800 PC !!! IF you consider inflation where the dollar is now only hlaf as valuable, I think things have gotten MUCH better, and this is a bad comparison, don't you Paul? For me it is a valid comparison. If you need all the extra functionality, then please use it and I really hope you are happy with it. The jungle of menu options that are in the new version (I know someone that uses it), with options jumping from the used to unused sides of the menu, are boggling me. Please understand that all opinions that I vent are mine. (Of course, for a small contribution they can be yours too ;-) Use what you need. If that means keeping up with the latest standards that Microsoft imposes on its software, so mote it be. Paul
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
SNIPPED. Whistler is not an update to ME, but an upgraded version of Win2k.As far a stability goes,I have a NT server at work wich has been up for almost 6 months,and a Win2k that was up for 7 until I rebooted for the hell of it,not to shabby.This is the norm for these two servers by the way
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Hey Tony, Have a Happy New Year. Cheers! -- Roman Registered Linux User #179293 Anthony Daniell wrote: Ok I think you can contact them at [EMAIL PROTECTED] but I am still waiting for a reply to my email about there cameras and that was three weeks ago. Anthony Daniell. - Original Message - From: "Vic" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 29, 2000 2:19 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux Does HP make their own printer drivers as well? If I had the e mail address I would e mail them and tell them they need to write linux drivers for their mice On Tue, 26 Dec 2000, Anthony Daniell wrote: - Original Message - From: David Raleigh Arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 5:17 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux I am locked into bad mouse support by 2-button mouse users. Linux mouse support is hardly configurable at all. I have seen the sawfish mouse dialog. Ridiculous. Very true indeed. Kde should build a special mouse driver for mice that have a scrol wheel and side buttons. Mine has four buttons and a scroll wheel. And the people who make the mice should write software for linux also. After all there are a lot of people using linux today. I feel that if every one using linux sent email to the logitech company asking for drivers/software for there products then they might do something about it. i just bought a new printer, a lexmark Z32 because they have drivers for linux. And the Z52 has drivers for linux also. My mouse is a ms intelli mouse explorer and whith the software for windoze I can get the buttons to do what ever I want them to do, and I can change the icons as well. But I bought it because it does not have a ball in it and can use it as either ps2 or usb. I also feel that linux should have surport for IDE CD Burners, not just SCSI. Regards Anthony Daniell
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
I agree. -- Roman Registered Linux User #179293 Revenant wrote: Romanator wrote: Revenant wrote: Clarification: Millenium is MS eking the last $$$ it can out of the dying Win9x OS. Whistler will be what Win2000 was supposed to be - the fusion of the NT line with the Win9x line. It is supposed to be a very different beast to the Win9x line, including ME... Have you noticed that the OS is getting bigger and bigger? They are pushing our resources to their limits. shrug Our resource limits are increasing. Most software aims to take maximum advantage of the hardware available. Now that the industry standard machine is a PIII, I'd be disappointed if the OS didn't have additional functionality. That said, Windows *does* seem to have more than its fair share of bloat... Society Design Mailing List http://www.egroups.com/group/Society_Design For any and all aspects of designing societies, from discussion of real- world utopian ideas to fantastic fictional or roleplaying worlds. ---Revenant [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] --
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
There's an update to Millennium coming out later this year. I think it's name is Whistler. goldenpi wrote: Give it time. I have just seen windows millenium and I can assure you it will not last. It is awful. It is slow. It takes up half my hard drive and then its optional parts take the rest. And it doesn't work. Windows 2k however is here to stay. I haven't seen it running but I have heard of it. On Tue, 26 Dec 2000, you wrote: - Original Message - From: David Raleigh Arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 5:17 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux I am locked into bad mouse support by 2-button mouse users. Linux mouse support is hardly configurable at all. I have seen the sawfish mouse dialog. Ridiculous. Very true indeed. Kde should build a special mouse driver for mice that have a scrol wheel and side buttons. Mine has four buttons and a scroll wheel. And the people who make the mice should write software for linux also. After all there are a lot of people using linux today. I feel that if every one using linux sent email to the logitech company asking for drivers/software for there products then they might do something about it. i just bought a new printer, a lexmark Z32 because they have drivers for linux. And the Z52 has drivers for linux also. My mouse is a ms intelli mouse explorer and whith the software for windoze I can get the buttons to do what ever I want them to do, and I can change the icons as well. But I bought it because it does not have a ball in it and can use it as either ps2 or usb. I also feel that linux should have surport for IDE CD Burners, not just SCSI. Regards Anthony Daniell -- == Goldenpi - linux user, unreal editor, programer in 3 languages and all round geek. -- Roman Registered Linux User #179293
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
so you don't like it when some one says something you don't like to hear LOL hahahahahahahaha - Original Message - From: "Romanator" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 1:15 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux Could be. Could be... Mark Weaver wrote: Good ole tony sounds like a good candidate for the twit list, huh? Mark From: Romanator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 19:39:54 -0500 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux Careful, we use trained man-eating penguins. Argghh... Roman Mark Weaver wrote: On Tuesday 26 December 2000 22:53, you wrote: Says who don't you have a few installs to take care of or something? :\ -- Mark "If you don't share your concepts and ideals, they end up being worthless," "Sharing is what makes them powerful." Linus Torvalds
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
On Thursday 28 December 2000 03:06, you wrote: There's an update to Millennium coming out later this year. I think it's name is Whistler. Yeah...that short for "Whistle friggin dixie while you wait for ever for your computer to stinkin work correctly cause this OS sucks!" I'm sorry. Win 95B is a good one and 98SE isn't too bad as long as you keep the registry squeeky clean; NT4.0 with "all" the service pack installed and kept clean will run well too, but WinME is a joke! What were they thinking? Sorry to the list cause this ain't a windows forum. Nowdie...thread DIE! :) -- Mark "If you don't share your concepts and ideals, they end up being worthless," "Sharing is what makes them powerful." Linus Torvalds
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
nope lol - Original Message - From: "Mark Weaver" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 5:29 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux On Tuesday 26 December 2000 22:53, you wrote: Says who don't you have a few installs to take care of or something? :\ -- Mark "If you don't share your concepts and ideals, they end up being worthless," "Sharing is what makes them powerful." Linus Torvalds
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Romanator wrote: There's an update to Millennium coming out later this year. I think it's name is Whistler. SNIP Clarification: Millenium is MS eking the last $$$ it can out of the dying Win9x OS. Whistler will be what Win2000 was supposed to be - the fusion of the NT line with the Win9x line. It is supposed to be a very different beast to the Win9x line, including ME... Society Design Mailing List http://www.egroups.com/group/Society_Design For any and all aspects of designing societies, from discussion of real- world utopian ideas to fantastic fictional or roleplaying worlds. ---Revenant [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] --
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Nh...there's no problem there... On Thursday 28 December 2000 05:39, you wrote: so you don't like it when some one says something you don't like to hear LOL hahahahahahahaha - Original Message - From: "Romanator" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 1:15 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux Could be. Could be... Mark Weaver wrote: Good ole tony sounds like a good candidate for the twit list, huh? Mark From: Romanator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 19:39:54 -0500 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux Careful, we use trained man-eating penguins. Argghh... Roman Mark Weaver wrote: On Tuesday 26 December 2000 22:53, you wrote: Says who don't you have a few installs to take care of or something? :\ -- Mark "If you don't share your concepts and ideals, they end up being worthless," "Sharing is what makes them powerful." Linus Torvalds -- Mark "If you don't share your concepts and ideals, they end up being worthless," "Sharing is what makes them powerful." Linus Torvalds
Re: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Actually, 'Whistler' is based on Windows 2000 and (according to Microsoft) will contain no legacy 16-bit code. (I'll believe it when I see it.) On the plus side, it will probabally be the most stable desktop version of Windows ever. On the other hand a lot of older programs will break under Whistler. Given Microsoft's track record on OS releases, the 3Q 2001 release date will more likely be 2Q 2002 or later... On Thursday 28 December 2000 03:06, you wrote: There's an update to Millennium coming out later this year. I think it's name is Whistler. Yeah...that short for "Whistle friggin dixie while you wait for ever for your computer to stinkin work correctly cause this OS sucks!" I'm sorry. Win 95B is a good one and 98SE isn't too bad as long as you keep the registry squeeky clean; NT4.0 with "all" the service pack installed and kept clean will run well too, but WinME is a joke! What were they thinking? Sorry to the list cause this ain't a windows forum. Nowdie...thread DIE! :) -- Mark "If you don't share your concepts and ideals, they end up being worthless," "Sharing is what makes them powerful." Linus Torvalds
RE: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Whistler is no an "update" to Windows ME. It is the complete replacement of all previous "consumer" Windows versions (Win95, Win98, WinME) with a Windows NT based code source. What this means for Microsoft is that all "markets" - consumer, workstation and server - will have the same code base. Some of the GUI shell stuff will be different between the consumer and workstation/server versions no doubt, but the core OS will be NT based. Cheers and Happy New Year to all, Rick -Original Message- From: Romanator Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 7:07 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux There's an update to Millennium coming out later this year. I think it's name is Whistler. goldenpi wrote: Give it time. I have just seen windows millenium and I can assure you it will . . .
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Some of your favorite's from the past will not run correctly. It's best to create another partition and install an older OS. Or, move to Linux. Jim Dawson wrote: Actually, 'Whistler' is based on Windows 2000 and (according to Microsoft) will contain no legacy 16-bit code. (I'll believe it when I see it.) On the plus side, it will probabally be the most stable desktop version of Windows ever. On the other hand a lot of older programs will break under Whistler. Given Microsoft's track record on OS releases, the 3Q 2001 release date will more likely be 2Q 2002 or later... On Thursday 28 December 2000 03:06, you wrote: There's an update to Millennium coming out later this year. I think it's name is Whistler. Yeah...that short for "Whistle friggin dixie while you wait for ever for your computer to stinkin work correctly cause this OS sucks!" I'm sorry. Win 95B is a good one and 98SE isn't too bad as long as you keep the registry squeeky clean; NT4.0 with "all" the service pack installed and kept clean will run well too, but WinME is a joke! What were they thinking? Sorry to the list cause this ain't a windows forum. Nowdie...thread DIE! :) -- Mark "If you don't share your concepts and ideals, they end up being worthless," "Sharing is what makes them powerful." Linus Torvalds -- Roman Registered Linux User #179293
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Romanator wrote: Revenant wrote: Clarification: Millenium is MS eking the last $$$ it can out of the dying Win9x OS. Whistler will be what Win2000 was supposed to be - the fusion of the NT line with the Win9x line. It is supposed to be a very different beast to the Win9x line, including ME... Have you noticed that the OS is getting bigger and bigger? They are pushing our resources to their limits. shrug Our resource limits are increasing. Most software aims to take maximum advantage of the hardware available. Now that the industry standard machine is a PIII, I'd be disappointed if the OS didn't have additional functionality. That said, Windows *does* seem to have more than its fair share of bloat... Society Design Mailing List http://www.egroups.com/group/Society_Design For any and all aspects of designing societies, from discussion of real- world utopian ideas to fantastic fictional or roleplaying worlds. ---Revenant [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] --
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
On Thu, 28 Dec 2000, Revenant wrote: There's an update to Millennium coming out later this year. I think it's name is Whistler. SNIP Clarification: Millenium is MS eking the last $$$ it can out of the dying Win9x OS. Whistler will be what Win2000 was supposed to be - the fusion of the NT line with the Win9x line. It is supposed to be a very different beast to the Win9x line, including ME... Which is good. Win9x and Win ME are bad. They die when you run them. Paul (speaking from too much experience...) -- At a certain time there is a light at the end of the tunnel. And it isn't a train. http://nlpagan.net - ICQ 147208 - Registered Linux User 174403 Linux Mandrake 7.2 - Pine 4.31
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Ok I think you can contact them at [EMAIL PROTECTED] but I am still waiting for a reply to my email about there cameras and that was three weeks ago. Anthony Daniell. - Original Message - From: "Vic" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 29, 2000 2:19 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux Does HP make their own printer drivers as well? If I had the e mail address I would e mail them and tell them they need to write linux drivers for their mice On Tue, 26 Dec 2000, Anthony Daniell wrote: - Original Message - From: David Raleigh Arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 5:17 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux I am locked into bad mouse support by 2-button mouse users. Linux mouse support is hardly configurable at all. I have seen the sawfish mouse dialog. Ridiculous. Very true indeed. Kde should build a special mouse driver for mice that have a scrol wheel and side buttons. Mine has four buttons and a scroll wheel. And the people who make the mice should write software for linux also. After all there are a lot of people using linux today. I feel that if every one using linux sent email to the logitech company asking for drivers/software for there products then they might do something about it. i just bought a new printer, a lexmark Z32 because they have drivers for linux. And the Z52 has drivers for linux also. My mouse is a ms intelli mouse explorer and whith the software for windoze I can get the buttons to do what ever I want them to do, and I can change the icons as well. But I bought it because it does not have a ball in it and can use it as either ps2 or usb. I also feel that linux should have surport for IDE CD Burners, not just SCSI. Regards Anthony Daniell
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
ok, millennium edition is the last microsoft OS built on the win9x kernel (mixed 16 and 32bit kernel). Win NT, 2000 and whistler are all true 32bit OS and are based on a different kernel. Microsoft wants to get everyone using 32bit OS's and that is why millennium edition's gui looks almost exactly like win2k's. Whistler is the follow up to win2k. There will be a number of different versions of it, home, professional, server, data center. Basically it'll get microsoft into a point where they only have to support one OS with different flavors rather then the hell they have now. Also, winNT/win2k's memory management is a *little bit* better then win9x so they are a bit more stable or should I say that they are less crash prone? In theory anyway, why is it that no microsoft OS is stable for more then a month or two? My experience is that win2k is like a giant 1950's american car. Its a boat, slow to start, breaks often, and requires a ton of maintanence. Abe Romanator wrote: There's an update to Millennium coming out later this year. I think it's name is Whistler. goldenpi wrote: Give it time. I have just seen windows millenium and I can assure you it will not last. It is awful. It is slow. It takes up half my hard drive and then its optional parts take the rest. And it doesn't work. Windows 2k however is here to stay. I haven't seen it running but I have heard of it. On Tue, 26 Dec 2000, you wrote: - Original Message - From: David Raleigh Arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 5:17 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux I am locked into bad mouse support by 2-button mouse users. Linux mouse support is hardly configurable at all. I have seen the sawfish mouse dialog. Ridiculous. Very true indeed. Kde should build a special mouse driver for mice that have a scrol wheel and side buttons. Mine has four buttons and a scroll wheel. And the people who make the mice should write software for linux also. After all there are a lot of people using linux today. I feel that if every one using linux sent email to the logitech company asking for drivers/software for there products then they might do something about it. i just bought a new printer, a lexmark Z32 because they have drivers for linux. And the Z52 has drivers for linux also. My mouse is a ms intelli mouse explorer and whith the software for windoze I can get the buttons to do what ever I want them to do, and I can change the icons as well. But I bought it because it does not have a ball in it and can use it as either ps2 or usb. I also feel that linux should have surport for IDE CD Burners, not just SCSI. Regards Anthony Daniell -- == Goldenpi - linux user, unreal editor, programer in 3 languages and all round geek. -- Roman Registered Linux User #179293
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
BOOM it died. On Thu, 28 Dec 2000, Mark Weaver wrote: WinME is a joke! What were they thinking? Sorry to the list cause this ain't a windows forum. Nowdie...thread DIE! :) -- Mark "If you don't share your concepts and ideals, they end up being worthless," "Sharing is what makes them powerful." Linus Torvalds
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Have you noticed that the OS is getting bigger and bigger? They are pushing our resources to their limits. -- Roman Registered Linux User #179293 Yes the os is getting bigger. But not getting better, the subject of this should be changed. or killed off Anthony Daniell
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Anthony Daniell wrote: Have you noticed that the OS is getting bigger and bigger? They are pushing our resources to their limits. -- Roman Registered Linux User #179293 Yes the os is getting bigger. But not getting better, the subject of this should be changed. or killed off Anthony Daniell Bang. I killed it. Cheers! -- Roman Registered Linux User #179293
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
On Fri, 29 Dec 2000, Revenant wrote: Have you noticed that the OS is getting bigger and bigger? They are pushing our resources to their limits. shrug Our resource limits are increasing. Most software aims to take maximum advantage of the hardware available. Now that the industry standard machine is a PIII, I'd be disappointed if the OS didn't have additional functionality. But not more speed. Lotus 1.2.3 version 1 that ran on the original 8086 is equally fast as excel2000 on the 800Mhz P-III. Paul -- Save our trees: Stop printing tax forms! http://nlpagan.net - ICQ 147208 - Registered Linux User 174403 Linux Mandrake 7.2 - Pine 4.31
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Give it time. I have just seen windows millenium and I can assure you it will not last. It is awful. It is slow. It takes up half my hard drive and then its optional parts take the rest. And it doesn't work. Windows 2k however is here to stay. I haven't seen it running but I have heard of it. On Tue, 26 Dec 2000, you wrote: - Original Message - From: David Raleigh Arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 5:17 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux I am locked into bad mouse support by 2-button mouse users. Linux mouse support is hardly configurable at all. I have seen the sawfish mouse dialog. Ridiculous. Very true indeed. Kde should build a special mouse driver for mice that have a scrol wheel and side buttons. Mine has four buttons and a scroll wheel. And the people who make the mice should write software for linux also. After all there are a lot of people using linux today. I feel that if every one using linux sent email to the logitech company asking for drivers/software for there products then they might do something about it. i just bought a new printer, a lexmark Z32 because they have drivers for linux. And the Z52 has drivers for linux also. My mouse is a ms intelli mouse explorer and whith the software for windoze I can get the buttons to do what ever I want them to do, and I can change the icons as well. But I bought it because it does not have a ball in it and can use it as either ps2 or usb. I also feel that linux should have surport for IDE CD Burners, not just SCSI. Regards Anthony Daniell -- == Goldenpi - linux user, unreal editor, programer in 3 languages and all round geek.
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Here a Ham, there a Ham, everywhere a Ham Ham : ) KC4KSC On Tue, 26 Dec 2000, Vic wrote: Hey are you a ham? I am N0VED 73 On Sun, 24 Dec 2000, Rick Commo wrote: Mark, Very good comment! With 100+ messages a day from [newbie] and [expert] I was tempted to do just that but figured at some point I could be an Elmer. As used here, "Elmer" is a term used in Ham Radio for a person who helps a beginner get up and running. Happy Holidays and Season's Best to all Rick -Original Message- From: Mark Hillary Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 10:51 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux I wasn't making a comment about the thread. I just don't like it when people join, get the help that they are looking for the leave not helping anyone else. Mark Hillary. Ps Anyway I like getting lots of email. Makes every say "Wow why do you get so much email". Then I can laugh.
Call Signs (Was: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux)
KA7ZNZ Michael Here a Ham, there a Ham, everywhere a Ham Ham : ) KC4KSC On Tue, 26 Dec 2000, Vic wrote: Hey are you a ham? I am N0VED 73 On Sun, 24 Dec 2000, Rick Commo wrote: Mark, Very good comment! With 100+ messages a day from [newbie] and [expert] I was tempted to do just that but figured at some point I could be an Elmer. As used here, "Elmer" is a term used in Ham Radio for a person who helps a beginner get up and running. Happy Holidays and Season's Best to all Rick -Original Message- From: Mark Hillary Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 10:51 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux I wasn't making a comment about the thread. I just don't like it when people join, get the help that they are looking for the leave not helping anyone else. Mark Hillary. Ps Anyway I like getting lots of email. Makes every say "Wow why do you get so much email". Then I can laugh.
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Says who - Original Message - From: Mark Hillary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 25, 2000 4:36 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux But its such a good list. :-) Mark Hillary - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 5:44 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux how do I get off this mailing list
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
I read as much as I can to learn about Linux, I answer questions if I can. I am now trying to install windoze 98 and suse 7 pro on the same machine so this week I will be off line for a day or two doing this. So if anyone wants to let me know an easy way of doing this please do. I do have three ver of mandrake and I like ver 7.1 best. Thanks Anthony Daniell - Original Message - From: Mark Hillary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 25, 2000 4:51 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux I wasn't making a comment about the thread. I just don't like it when people join, get the help that they are looking for the leave not helping anyone else. Mark Hillary. Ps Anyway I like getting lots of email. Makes every say "Wow why do you get so much email". Then I can laugh. - Original Message - From: "Romanator" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 6:48 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux Mark Hillary wrote: But its such a good list. :-) Mark Hillary - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 5:44 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux how do I get off this mailing list Hey Mark, I started this as a one of comentary on Bill Gates gets Linux. I didn't think it would get this big. -- Roman Registered Linux User #179293 High Energy Penguin Powered Email
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
On Tuesday 26 December 2000 22:53, you wrote: Says who don't you have a few installs to take care of or something? :\ -- Mark "If you don't share your concepts and ideals, they end up being worthless," "Sharing is what makes them powerful." Linus Torvalds
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Arghh... Anthony Daniell wrote: Says who - Original Message - From: Mark Hillary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 25, 2000 4:36 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux But its such a good list. :-) Mark Hillary - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 5:44 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux how do I get off this mailing list
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Careful, we use trained man-eating penguins. Argghh... Roman Mark Weaver wrote: On Tuesday 26 December 2000 22:53, you wrote: Says who don't you have a few installs to take care of or something? :\ -- Mark "If you don't share your concepts and ideals, they end up being worthless," "Sharing is what makes them powerful." Linus Torvalds
Re: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
How about this guy Roman? Shall we all bow now and pay homage or wait a little and see if he can walk on the water? Mark From: Romanator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 19:29:38 -0500 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux Arghh... Anthony Daniell wrote: Says who - Original Message - From: Mark Hillary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 25, 2000 4:36 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux But its such a good list. :-) Mark Hillary - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 5:44 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux how do I get off this mailing list
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
my ide burner works just fine in linux. Better then it does in windows infact. I have one of those mice too. Works great in linux or 'doze. The only change I want to make in its functioning is in windows. I want my middle mouse button to open link in new window like in netscape in linux. No go. So much for "anything I want it too" ;-) Abe Anthony Daniell wrote: - Original Message - From: David Raleigh Arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 5:17 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux I am locked into bad mouse support by 2-button mouse users. Linux mouse support is hardly configurable at all. I have seen the sawfish mouse dialog. Ridiculous. Very true indeed. Kde should build a special mouse driver for mice that have a scrol wheel and side buttons. Mine has four buttons and a scroll wheel. And the people who make the mice should write software for linux also. After all there are a lot of people using linux today. I feel that if every one using linux sent email to the logitech company asking for drivers/software for there products then they might do something about it. i just bought a new printer, a lexmark Z32 because they have drivers for linux. And the Z52 has drivers for linux also. My mouse is a ms intelli mouse explorer and whith the software for windoze I can get the buttons to do what ever I want them to do, and I can change the icons as well. But I bought it because it does not have a ball in it and can use it as either ps2 or usb. I also feel that linux should have surport for IDE CD Burners, not just SCSI. Regards Anthony Daniell
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Hi, can you please tell me how you got your ide burner to work under linux??? Thanks Anthony Daniell - Original Message - From: "abe" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 2:53 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux my ide burner works just fine in linux. Better then it does in windows infact. I have one of those mice too. Works great in linux or 'doze. The only change I want to make in its functioning is in windows. I want my middle mouse button to open link in new window like in netscape in linux. No go. So much for "anything I want it too" ;-) Abe Anthony Daniell wrote: - Original Message - From: David Raleigh Arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 5:17 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux I am locked into bad mouse support by 2-button mouse users. Linux mouse support is hardly configurable at all. I have seen the sawfish mouse dialog. Ridiculous. Very true indeed. Kde should build a special mouse driver for mice that have a scrol wheel and side buttons. Mine has four buttons and a scroll wheel. And the people who make the mice should write software for linux also. After all there are a lot of people using linux today. I feel that if every one using linux sent email to the logitech company asking for drivers/software for there products then they might do something about it. i just bought a new printer, a lexmark Z32 because they have drivers for linux. And the Z52 has drivers for linux also. My mouse is a ms intelli mouse explorer and whith the software for windoze I can get the buttons to do what ever I want them to do, and I can change the icons as well. But I bought it because it does not have a ball in it and can use it as either ps2 or usb. I also feel that linux should have surport for IDE CD Burners, not just SCSI. Regards Anthony Daniell
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
On Wed, 27 Dec 2000, Anthony Daniell wrote: Hi, can you please tell me how you got your ide burner to work under linux??? Thanks Anthony Daniell Mine did it after I checked out the info at http://mandrakeuser.org Paul -- Satellite Safety Tip #14: If you see a bright streak in the sky coming at you, duck. http://nlpagan.net - ICQ 147208 - Registered Linux User 174403 Linux Mandrake 7.2 - Pine 4.31
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Hi thanks for that, am checking it out now. Regards Anthony Daniell - Original Message - From: "Paul" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 3:50 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux On Wed, 27 Dec 2000, Anthony Daniell wrote: Hi, can you please tell me how you got your ide burner to work under linux??? Thanks Anthony Daniell Mine did it after I checked out the info at http://mandrakeuser.org Paul -- Satellite Safety Tip #14: If you see a bright streak in the sky coming at you, duck. http://nlpagan.net - ICQ 147208 - Registered Linux User 174403 Linux Mandrake 7.2 - Pine 4.31
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
http://mandrakeuser.org/hardware/hremov3.html it's about 2/3 of the way down the page. Be root when you do it! Abe Anthony Daniell wrote: Hi, can you please tell me how you got your ide burner to work under linux??? Thanks Anthony Daniell - Original Message - From: "abe" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 2:53 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux my ide burner works just fine in linux. Better then it does in windows infact. I have one of those mice too. Works great in linux or 'doze. The only change I want to make in its functioning is in windows. I want my middle mouse button to open link in new window like in netscape in linux. No go. So much for "anything I want it too" ;-) Abe Anthony Daniell wrote: - Original Message - From: David Raleigh Arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 5:17 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux I am locked into bad mouse support by 2-button mouse users. Linux mouse support is hardly configurable at all. I have seen the sawfish mouse dialog. Ridiculous. Very true indeed. Kde should build a special mouse driver for mice that have a scrol wheel and side buttons. Mine has four buttons and a scroll wheel. And the people who make the mice should write software for linux also. After all there are a lot of people using linux today. I feel that if every one using linux sent email to the logitech company asking for drivers/software for there products then they might do something about it. i just bought a new printer, a lexmark Z32 because they have drivers for linux. And the Z52 has drivers for linux also. My mouse is a ms intelli mouse explorer and whith the software for windoze I can get the buttons to do what ever I want them to do, and I can change the icons as well. But I bought it because it does not have a ball in it and can use it as either ps2 or usb. I also feel that linux should have surport for IDE CD Burners, not just SCSI. Regards Anthony Daniell
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Hi thanks for that, am checking it out now.
Regards Anthony Daniell
- Original Message -
From: "abe" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
http://mandrakeuser.org/hardware/hremov3.html
it's about 2/3 of the way down the page. Be root when you do it!
Abe
Anthony Daniell wrote:
Hi, can you please tell me how you got your ide burner to
work under linux???
Thanks Anthony Daniell
- Original Message -
From: "abe" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
my ide burner works just fine in linux. Better then it does in
windows
infact.
I have one of those mice too. Works great in linux or 'doze. The
only
change I want to make in its functioning is in windows. I want my
middle mouse button to open link in new window like in netscape in
linux. No go. So much for "anything I want it too" ;-)
Abe
Anthony Daniell wrote:
- Original Message -
From: David Raleigh Arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
I am locked into bad mouse support by 2-button mouse users. Linux
mouse
support is hardly configurable at all. I have seen the sawfish
mouse
dialog. Ridiculous.
Very true indeed. Kde should build a special mouse driver for mice
that
have
a scrol wheel and side buttons. Mine has four buttons and a scroll
wheel.
And the people who make the mice should write software for linux
also.
After
all there are a lot of people using linux today.
I feel that if every one using linux sent email to the logitech
company
asking for drivers/software for there products then they might do
something
about it. i just bought a new printer, a lexmark Z32 because they
have
drivers for linux. And the Z52 has drivers for linux also.
My mouse is a ms intelli mouse explorer and whith the software for
windoze I
can get the buttons to do what ever I want them to do, and I can
change
the
icons as well. But I bought it because it does not have a ball in it
and
can
use it as either ps2 or usb.
I also feel that linux should have surport for IDE CD Burners, not
just
SCSI.
Regards Anthony Daniell
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Mark Hillary wrote: I wasn't making a comment about the thread. I just don't like it when people join, get the help that they are looking for the leave not helping anyone else. SNIP Yes, I agree. The Debian mailing list made the interesting choice of having just one list rather than dividing by expert/newbie. This meant a lot more of the traffic was useless to any given individual, but it also meant that there was always someone available to answer most any question. 'Newbie' lists do tend to disinterest more expert users after a while - then who's going to help the newbies? Society Design Mailing List http://www.egroups.com/group/Society_Design For any and all aspects of designing societies, from discussion of real- world utopian ideas to fantastic fictional or roleplaying worlds. ---Revenant [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] --
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
While you have made some good points, I guess I'm a little more optimistic about what the future holds for Linux GUIs than you are, David. Things will get better as Windos declines and becomes less of a threat (and we won't have to try as hard to win over computer-illiterate Windoze users). We *are* being held back by Windos, but this will change. With the mouse button support problem, this is mostly a problem with X (correct me if I'm wrong, is it possible to configure more than, say, 3 buttons for a mouse?). WMs like Sawfish are already able to support as many buttons as you wish, but only as long as X can first. Other WMs can't, though. On Sat, 23 Dec 2000 18:17, David Raleigh Arnold wrote: =Sridhar: I never said that Windos users didn't have bad habits. The issue here is that my idea of "bad habits" differs slightly from yours. In my opinion, a "bad habit" is something that locks you into something, whether you like it or not. -yhs I am locked into bad mouse support by 2-button mouse users. Linux mouse support is hardly configurable at all. I have seen the sawfish mouse dialog. Ridiculous. == I like the configurabliity of Linux, and it is getting better all the time. We need to have a starting point, yhs A starting point is to configure 7 logical mouse buttons. Developers should be able to assume that the user has access to at least 7 buttons. === and for simplicity this should be similar to that of other popular OSs, in order to win support. With time, however, we will break free ---yhs Never happen. = of these so-called "bad habits" and have a fully configurable OS. WMs like Enlightenment and Sawfish are doing this already. It will take a while yhs forever === for this to happen to KDE, however, since it is made to be easy for people migrating from M$-land. ---yhs The greater problem is that the qt library was intended to build windows programs as well as kde. That means that kde will *never* develop decent mouse support. Not as long as some form of W$ exists. As I said before, the gnome developers do not have that excuse. They are afraid to be different from kde. X has always used the middle mouse button, but there has been no progress, and kde even caused a step or two backward. You will notice that the middle mouse button is *finally* useful on a scroll bar *again* in netscape the way it used to be on the first x scrollbars, but the 3 button does nothing when it used to scroll backward in x. Also the 1 % 2 buttons do the same thing on the little triangles at the ends of the sb's, and the 3 button does nothing. This is progress? == OS/2 failed for a number of reasons. -yhs The most important was not ibm's mistakes, which were many, but M$ thuggish and illegal marketing, which was nothing short of extortion. They have been tried and found guilty by judge Jackson. BG is a criminal, and M$ is a criminal enterprise. BG will stay out of prison but he belongs in one. (My government is so corrupt that it will commit even acts of war and mass murder to help tyrants *if* they are rich. It is not about to drag Gates into a criminal court.) Besides diehard OS/2 fans, --yhs Not me, but right button drag is better, because you can both open progs with one click and select multiple icons in a rectangle for dragging. While some os2 progs required the middle mouse button, they also allowed 1-2 as an alternative, thus crippling good mouse support. The linux developers have learned nothing from this, and since millions of suckers have bought ms mice shouldn't the little wheels be good for something besides *scrolling ms word documents*??? If anyonne still has a 2-button mouse, for God's sake *throw it out* with your DD 5.25" diskettes! Let Santa bring you a *real* mouse. (The wheel counts if you can click it.) I use the big logitech 4 button ball, because I use two keyboards at once (one midi) and therefore I like a mouse that stays put. I tape it down, so it won't drop on the floor (anymore). It's a great thing, though it costs the earth. How many logical buttons is that? 15. I wouldn't mind a touchpad too. ;-) .daveA -- Sridhar Dhanapalan. Your mouse has moved. Windows must be rebooted to acknowledge this change.
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
==Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote: While you have made some good points, I guess I'm a little more optimistic -yhs The problem is that crippling linux with bad mouse support is seen as a strategy to win over windows users. I think that strategy sucks. :-) = With the mouse button support problem, this is mostly a problem with X (correct me if I'm wrong, is it possible to configure more than, say, 3 --- But X only supports 2, because they still support the 2 button mouse which gives only 3 logical buttons: 1, 2, 1-2. This is not configuring a 3 button mouse at all. It has 7 logical buttons. Unfortunately, this has caused enlightenment, for example, to use alt-button combinations, which is the worst ergonomics possible. In the suse manual there is an excellent article on ergonomics, but I have never seen any of these experts take note of the tremendous toll that right-left coordination takes. This makes their expertise entirely questionable. If X would go to 7 logical and use the alt or ctl-buttons as a makeshift, we could have it all, but they just haven't done it because. On Sat, 23 Dec 2000 18:17, David Raleigh Arnold wrote: =Sridhar: I never said that Windos users didn't have bad habits. The issue here is that my idea of "bad habits" differs slightly from yours. In my opinion, a "bad habit" is something that locks you into something, whether you like it or not. -yhs I am locked into bad mouse support by 2-button mouse users. Linux mouse support is hardly configurable at all. I have seen the sawfish mouse dialog. Ridiculous. == I like the configurabliity of Linux, and it is getting better all the time. We need to have a starting point, yhs A starting point is to configure 7 logical mouse buttons. Developers should be able to assume that the user has access to at least 7 buttons. === and for simplicity this should be similar to that of other popular OSs, in order to win support. With time, however, we will break free ---yhs Never happen. = of these so-called "bad habits" and have a fully configurable OS. WMs like Enlightenment and Sawfish are doing this already. It will take a while yhs forever === for this to happen to KDE, however, since it is made to be easy for people migrating from M$-land. ---yhs The greater problem is that the qt library was intended to build windows programs as well as kde. That means that kde will *never* develop decent mouse support. Not as long as some form of W$ exists. As I said before, the gnome developers do not have that excuse. They are afraid to be different from kde. X has always used the middle mouse button, but there has been no progress, and kde even caused a step or two backward. You will notice that the middle mouse button is *finally* useful on a scroll bar *again* in netscape the way it used to be on the first x scrollbars, but the 3 button does nothing when it used to scroll backward in x. Also the 1 % 2 buttons do the same thing on the little triangles at the ends of the sb's, and the 3 button does nothing. This is progress? == OS/2 failed for a number of reasons. -yhs The most important was not ibm's mistakes, which were many, but M$ thuggish and illegal marketing, which was nothing short of extortion. They have been tried and found guilty by judge Jackson. BG is a criminal, and M$ is a criminal enterprise. BG will stay out of prison but he belongs in one. (My government is so corrupt that it will commit even acts of war and mass murder to help tyrants *if* they are rich. It is not about to drag Gates into a criminal court.) Besides diehard OS/2 fans, --yhs Not me, but right button drag is better, because you can both open progs with one click and select multiple icons in a rectangle for dragging. While some os2 progs required the middle mouse button, they also allowed 1-2 as an alternative, thus crippling good mouse support. The linux developers have learned nothing from this, and since millions of suckers have bought ms mice shouldn't the little wheels be good for something besides *scrolling ms word documents*??? If anyonne still has a 2-button mouse, for God's sake *throw it out* with your DD 5.25" diskettes! Let Santa bring you a *real* mouse. (The wheel counts if you can click it.) I use the big logitech 4 button ball, because I use two keyboards at once (one midi) and therefore I like a mouse that stays put. I tape it down, so it won't drop on the floor (anymore). It's a great thing, though it costs the earth. How many logical buttons is that? 15. I wouldn't mind a touchpad too. ;-) .daveA -- Sridhar Dhanapalan. Your mouse has moved. Windows must be rebooted to acknowledge this
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Mark Hillary wrote: I wasn't making a comment about the thread. I just don't like it when people join, get the help that they are looking for the leave not helping anyone else. Mark Hillary. Ps Anyway I like getting lots of email. Makes every say "Wow why do you get so much email". Then I can laugh. You got it. Maybe, we should rename the thread? -- Roman Registered Linux User #179293 High Energy Penguin Powered Email
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
=Sridhar: I never said that Windos users didn't have bad habits. The issue here is that my idea of "bad habits" differs slightly from yours. In my opinion, a "bad habit" is something that locks you into something, whether you like it or not. -yhs I am locked into bad mouse support by 2-button mouse users. Linux mouse support is hardly configurable at all. I have seen the sawfish mouse dialog. Ridiculous. == I like the configurabliity of Linux, and it is getting better all the time. We need to have a starting point, yhs A starting point is to configure 7 logical mouse buttons. Developers should be able to assume that the user has access to at least 7 buttons. === and for simplicity this should be similar to that of other popular OSs, in order to win support. With time, however, we will break free ---yhs Never happen. = of these so-called "bad habits" and have a fully configurable OS. WMs like Enlightenment and Sawfish are doing this already. It will take a while yhs forever === for this to happen to KDE, however, since it is made to be easy for people migrating from M$-land. ---yhs The greater problem is that the qt library was intended to build windows programs as well as kde. That means that kde will *never* develop decent mouse support. Not as long as some form of W$ exists. As I said before, the gnome developers do not have that excuse. They are afraid to be different from kde. X has always used the middle mouse button, but there has been no progress, and kde even caused a step or two backward. You will notice that the middle mouse button is *finally* useful on a scroll bar *again* in netscape the way it used to be on the first x scrollbars, but the 3 button does nothing when it used to scroll backward in x. Also the 1 % 2 buttons do the same thing on the little triangles at the ends of the sb's, and the 3 button does nothing. This is progress? == OS/2 failed for a number of reasons. -yhs The most important was not ibm's mistakes, which were many, but M$ thuggish and illegal marketing, which was nothing short of extortion. They have been tried and found guilty by judge Jackson. BG is a criminal, and M$ is a criminal enterprise. BG will stay out of prison but he belongs in one. (My government is so corrupt that it will commit even acts of war and mass murder to help tyrants *if* they are rich. It is not about to drag Gates into a criminal court.) Besides diehard OS/2 fans, --yhs Not me, but right button drag is better, because you can both open progs with one click and select multiple icons in a rectangle for dragging. While some os2 progs required the middle mouse button, they also allowed 1-2 as an alternative, thus crippling good mouse support. The linux developers have learned nothing from this, and since millions of suckers have bought ms mice shouldn't the little wheels be good for something besides *scrolling ms word documents*??? If anyonne still has a 2-button mouse, for God's sake *throw it out* with your DD 5.25" diskettes! Let Santa bring you a *real* mouse. (The wheel counts if you can click it.) I use the big logitech 4 button ball, because I use two keyboards at once (one midi) and therefore I like a mouse that stays put. I tape it down, so it won't drop on the floor (anymore). It's a great thing, though it costs the earth. How many logical buttons is that? 15. I wouldn't mind a touchpad too. ;-) .daveA
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
I would like to say that Mandrake properly configured my Microsoft InteiMouse, All 5 buttons and the wheel from install, not to mention the fact that it is also USB. Mark Hillary - Original Message - From: "David Raleigh Arnold" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 7:17 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux =Sridhar: I never said that Windos users didn't have bad habits. The issue here is that my idea of "bad habits" differs slightly from yours. In my opinion, a "bad habit" is something that locks you into something, whether you like it or not. -yhs I am locked into bad mouse support by 2-button mouse users. Linux mouse support is hardly configurable at all. I have seen the sawfish mouse dialog. Ridiculous. == I like the configurabliity of Linux, and it is getting better all the time. We need to have a starting point, yhs A starting point is to configure 7 logical mouse buttons. Developers should be able to assume that the user has access to at least 7 buttons. === and for simplicity this should be similar to that of other popular OSs, in order to win support. With time, however, we will break free ---yhs Never happen. = of these so-called "bad habits" and have a fully configurable OS. WMs like Enlightenment and Sawfish are doing this already. It will take a while yhs forever === for this to happen to KDE, however, since it is made to be easy for people migrating from M$-land. ---yhs The greater problem is that the qt library was intended to build windows programs as well as kde. That means that kde will *never* develop decent mouse support. Not as long as some form of W$ exists. As I said before, the gnome developers do not have that excuse. They are afraid to be different from kde. X has always used the middle mouse button, but there has been no progress, and kde even caused a step or two backward. You will notice that the middle mouse button is *finally* useful on a scroll bar *again* in netscape the way it used to be on the first x scrollbars, but the 3 button does nothing when it used to scroll backward in x. Also the 1 % 2 buttons do the same thing on the little triangles at the ends of the sb's, and the 3 button does nothing. This is progress? == OS/2 failed for a number of reasons. -yhs The most important was not ibm's mistakes, which were many, but M$ thuggish and illegal marketing, which was nothing short of extortion. They have been tried and found guilty by judge Jackson. BG is a criminal, and M$ is a criminal enterprise. BG will stay out of prison but he belongs in one. (My government is so corrupt that it will commit even acts of war and mass murder to help tyrants *if* they are rich. It is not about to drag Gates into a criminal court.) Besides diehard OS/2 fans, --yhs Not me, but right button drag is better, because you can both open progs with one click and select multiple icons in a rectangle for dragging. While some os2 progs required the middle mouse button, they also allowed 1-2 as an alternative, thus crippling good mouse support. The linux developers have learned nothing from this, and since millions of suckers have bought ms mice shouldn't the little wheels be good for something besides *scrolling ms word documents*??? If anyonne still has a 2-button mouse, for God's sake *throw it out* with your DD 5.25" diskettes! Let Santa bring you a *real* mouse. (The wheel counts if you can click it.) I use the big logitech 4 button ball, because I use two keyboards at once (one midi) and therefore I like a mouse that stays put. I tape it down, so it won't drop on the floor (anymore). It's a great thing, though it costs the earth. How many logical buttons is that? 15. I wouldn't mind a touchpad too. ;-) .daveA
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
how do I get off this mailing list
RE: [newbie] gates gets Linux
The same way you joined it only backwards! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 9:45 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux how do I get off this mailing list
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
But its such a good list. :-) Mark Hillary - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 5:44 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux how do I get off this mailing list
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Mark Hillary wrote: But its such a good list. :-) Mark Hillary - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 5:44 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux how do I get off this mailing list Hey Mark, I started this as a one of comentary on Bill Gates gets Linux. I didn't think it would get this big. -- Roman Registered Linux User #179293 High Energy Penguin Powered Email
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
I wasn't making a comment about the thread. I just don't like it when people join, get the help that they are looking for the leave not helping anyone else. Mark Hillary. Ps Anyway I like getting lots of email. Makes every say "Wow why do you get so much email". Then I can laugh. - Original Message - From: "Romanator" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 6:48 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux Mark Hillary wrote: But its such a good list. :-) Mark Hillary - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 5:44 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux how do I get off this mailing list Hey Mark, I started this as a one of comentary on Bill Gates gets Linux. I didn't think it would get this big. -- Roman Registered Linux User #179293 High Energy Penguin Powered Email
RE: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Mark, Very good comment! With 100+ messages a day from [newbie] and [expert] I was tempted to do just that but figured at some point I could be an Elmer. As used here, "Elmer" is a term used in Ham Radio for a person who helps a beginner get up and running. Happy Holidays and Season's Best to all Rick -Original Message- From: Mark Hillary Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 10:51 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux I wasn't making a comment about the thread. I just don't like it when people join, get the help that they are looking for the leave not helping anyone else. Mark Hillary. Ps Anyway I like getting lots of email. Makes every say "Wow why do you get so much email". Then I can laugh.
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Mark Weaver wrote: Hey Mark, I started this as a one of comentary on Bill Gates gets Linux. I didn't think it would get this big. Don't take it so hard Roman. It's one of those issues in life that is very explosive and prone to a lot of hot debate and commentary. The best thing to do is keep perspective and when all else fails good mail filters are a God-send. -- Mark "If you don't share your concepts and ideals, they end up being worthless," "Sharing is what makes them powerful." Linus Torvalds Sounds good to me. I think changing the subject and topic should also fix it. -- Roman Registered Linux User #179293
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote: Not a bad idea, but most mice out there still have only one or two buttons. That was the doing of Bill Gates. While three-button mice are cheap nowadays, many people will not switch to Linux if they have to buy a new piece of hardware, no matter how cheap it is. If the folks at IBM hadn't been too stupid to throw a 3 button mouse in the box, os2 might still be a player. I have seen them sell at retail for $2.00. Besides, they can use alt keys instead, which is *very* bad ergonomics, as enlightenment offers instead of 7 buttons. The thing has hurt linux already, and continues to do so. (it's psychological). Also, new users of Linux can become easily confused by too many buttons. Aha! Now you admit that windows users have bad habits! And that they are so easily confused that they need wheels instead of buttons? Xwindows Mouse Installation Wiz Button 1[add] list of functions Button 2[remove]list of functions Button 3 or 1+2 list of functions Button 4 1+2 or a-1 list of functions Button 5 1+3 or a-2 list of functions Button 6 2+3 or a-1+2 list of functions Button 7 1+2+3 or doubleclick 1 list of functions list of functions list of functions etc etc etc.. He should be able to get to this by entering "xmouse" at a command prompt. This is mouse0. Mouse1 should be also configurable, bearing in mind that you can't have two *separate* ps2 mice, tho I understand that you can hook up 2 and use them. The buttons would share. They're just switches, after all. (So is a computer :-)) Some of the functions need dialogs for pressure, axis, etc. We don't have this because W$ users have bad habits, and they continue to have a bad influence.
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Not a bad idea, but most mice out there still have only one or two buttons. While three-button mice are cheap nowadays, many people will not switch to Linux if they have to buy a new piece of hardware, no matter how cheap it is (it's psychological). Also, new users of Linux can become easily confused by too many buttons. I know it sounds rediculous, but it's true. A recent example is MacOS X's support of 2-button mice, a first for the Mac (at the OS level). Apple had avoided multi-button mice for years since they believed that it would confuse people. Upon hearing of MacOS X's support of multiple buttons, many users complained, and many developers wern't too happy with the concept either. I know this all sounds stupid, but we need to ease people into Linux gradually, without hindering more advanced users. Providing maximum configurability is the key, and once people are used to the OS and GUI, they should want to switch to more complex things in order to get their work done better. As for joysticks, Linux was in its very early days seven years ago, and joystick support was not a priority back then. Unix had no joystick support at all (not even joystick ports), and it didn't need it since it had no real games (the main reason for using a joystick). Even Microsoft's joystick support was non-existant; it was up to games manufacturers to provide their own support. Many things *could* have been done seven years ago, but there was simply no need, and there were more pressing issues to concentrate on. On Thu, 21 Dec 2000 02:29, David Raleigh Arnold wrote: Not hardcode seven? Seven is obviously a *minimum* standard of support for a 3 button mouse. Look at how long it has taken x to provide three, and the support is minimal. They could have done joysticks 7 years ago. Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote: Perhaps X should not hard code seven buttons, but rather have a section in the config file specifying the number of buttons that you have (i.e. you can change it to what you like). In a following section, the functions of the buttons may be specified, or the user may choose to leave that to the window manager. That way you could do something like plug in a USB joystick (one of those complex ones with millions of buttons) and use that as a pointing device. It could be useful for disabled people who find it easier to point a joystick than a mouse. On Wed, 20 Dec 2000 14:15, David Raleigh Arnold wrote: Just as xwindows sets up, or fails to set up, a ps/2 or 2 button mouse, it instead should set up seven buttons -- period. Then the wm assigns and/or reassigns functions. The other way is going nowhere, because windows users have bad habits. Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote: I like your idea, but this appears to be more of a job for the window manager than for X itself, since different window managers have different feature sets and different ways of doing things. As I mentioned before, I quite like the Sawfish configuration options. These allow a multitude of combinations involving the mouse, the keyboard, or even both together. While it may not have everything you may want, remember that Sawfish is a relatively young window manager (compared to, say, Enlightenment and WindowMaker) and its feature set is improving over time. On Mon, 18 Dec 2000 23:45, David Raleigh Arnold wrote: I think a new user should be faced with something like this: Xwindows Mouse Installation Wiz Button 1[add] list of functions Button 2[remove]list of functions Button 3 or 1+2 list of functions Button 4 1+2 or a-1 list of functions Button 5 1+3 or a-2 list of functions Button 6 2+3 or a-1+2 list of functions Button 7 1+2+3 or doubleclick 1 list of functions list of functions list of functions etc etc etc.. He should be able to get to this by entering "xmouse" at a command prompt. This is mouse0. Mouse1 should be also configurable, bearing in mind that you can't have two *separate* ps2 mice, tho I understand that you can hook up 2 and use them. The buttons would share. They're just switches, after all. (So is a computer :-)) Some of the functions need dialogs for pressure, axis, etc. We don't have this because W$ users have bad habits, and they continue to have a bad influence. Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote: I agree with you - at least in part. I believe that Linux should have legacy hardware support, but only if those like us are not disadvantaged. As I've said before, Linux is all about choice. If someone wants to plug in a --
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
I never said that Windos users didn't have bad habits. The issue here is that my idea of "bad habits" differs slightly from yours. In my opinion, a "bad habit" is something that locks you into something, whether you like it or not. I like the configurabliity of Linux, and it is getting better all the time. We need to have a starting point, and for simplicity this should be similar to that of other popular OSs, in order to win support. With time, however, we will break free of these so-called "bad habits" and have a fully configurable OS. WMs like Enlightenment and Sawfish are doing this already. It will take a while for this to happen to KDE, however, since it is made to be easy for people migrating from M$-land. OS/2 failed for a number of reasons. The first two versions were actually made by M$, so this gave M$ valuable experience when it came to writing Windoze. It also put IBM at a disadvantage, since they had to get people who hadn't worked on it before to develop it, once it's partnership with M$ was over. OS/2 was written mostly in Assembler, making it difficult to modify and maintain. OS/2 advertised itself as "A better Windows than Windows", since it could run win16 and win32 apps. This needed a copy of Windows installed, however, so people just used Windows. Developers didn't develop for OS/2 since Windows software worked in both Windows and OS/2. The final blow was the lack of interest in the upper echelons of IBM. If they had decided to market it harder and better, and put more money into its development, OS/2 could have easily beaten Windos. OS/2 Warp 3 was pushed reasonably hard, but this was less than a year before the release of Windows 95, so by then it was too late. Besides diehard OS/2 fans, who really wanted to see OS/2 succeed anyway? In the short term it may seem good, but if the dominant OS was actually competant then no one would want to switch to something even better like Linux. OS/2 may be fully 32-bit (Windos still has lots of 16-bit code, over ten years since Intel released the fully 32-bit 386 CPU), but it is still a single-user OS, not built for networks from the ground-up like Linux, BSD and Unix are. On Thu, 21 Dec 2000 23:29, David Raleigh Arnold wrote: Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote: Not a bad idea, but most mice out there still have only one or two buttons. That was the doing of Bill Gates. While three-button mice are cheap nowadays, many people will not switch to Linux if they have to buy a new piece of hardware, no matter how cheap it is. If the folks at IBM hadn't been too stupid to throw a 3 button mouse in the box, os2 might still be a player. I have seen them sell at retail for $2.00. Besides, they can use alt keys instead, which is *very* bad ergonomics, as enlightenment offers instead of 7 buttons. The thing has hurt linux already, and continues to do so. (it's psychological). Also, new users of Linux can become easily confused by too many buttons. Aha! Now you admit that windows users have bad habits! And that they are so easily confused that they need wheels instead of buttons? Xwindows Mouse Installation Wiz Button 1[add] list of functions Button 2[remove]list of functions Button 3 or 1+2 list of functions Button 4 1+2 or a-1 list of functions Button 5 1+3 or a-2 list of functions Button 6 2+3 or a-1+2 list of functions Button 7 1+2+3 or doubleclick 1 list of functions list of functions list of functions etc etc etc.. He should be able to get to this by entering "xmouse" at a command prompt. This is mouse0. Mouse1 should be also configurable, bearing in mind that you can't have two *separate* ps2 mice, tho I understand that you can hook up 2 and use them. The buttons would share. They're just switches, after all. (So is a computer :-)) Some of the functions need dialogs for pressure, axis, etc. We don't have this because W$ users have bad habits, and they continue to have a bad influence. -- Sridhar Dhanapalan. Your mouse has moved. Windows must be rebooted to acknowledge this change.
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Perhaps X should not hard code seven buttons, but rather have a section in the config file specifying the number of buttons that you have (i.e. you can change it to what you like). In a following section, the functions of the buttons may be specified, or the user may choose to leave that to the window manager. That way you could do something like plug in a USB joystick (one of those complex ones with millions of buttons) and use that as a pointing device. It could be useful for disabled people who find it easier to point a joystick than a mouse. On Wed, 20 Dec 2000 14:15, David Raleigh Arnold wrote: Just as xwindows sets up, or fails to set up, a ps/2 or 2 button mouse, it instead should set up seven buttons -- period. Then the wm assigns and/or reassigns functions. The other way is going nowhere, because windows users have bad habits. Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote: I like your idea, but this appears to be more of a job for the window manager than for X itself, since different window managers have different feature sets and different ways of doing things. As I mentioned before, I quite like the Sawfish configuration options. These allow a multitude of combinations involving the mouse, the keyboard, or even both together. While it may not have everything you may want, remember that Sawfish is a relatively young window manager (compared to, say, Enlightenment and WindowMaker) and its feature set is improving over time. On Mon, 18 Dec 2000 23:45, David Raleigh Arnold wrote: I think a new user should be faced with something like this: Xwindows Mouse Installation Wiz Button 1[add] list of functions Button 2[remove]list of functions Button 3 or 1+2 list of functions Button 4 1+2 or a-1 list of functions Button 5 1+3 or a-2 list of functions Button 6 2+3 or a-1+2 list of functions Button 7 1+2+3 or doubleclick 1 list of functions list of functions list of functions etc etc etc.. He should be able to get to this by entering "xmouse" at a command prompt. This is mouse0. Mouse1 should be also configurable, bearing in mind that you can't have two *separate* ps2 mice, tho I understand that you can hook up 2 and use them. The buttons would share. They're just switches, after all. (So is a computer :-)) Some of the functions need dialogs for pressure, axis, etc. We don't have this because W$ users have bad habits, and they continue to have a bad influence. Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote: I agree with you - at least in part. I believe that Linux should have legacy hardware support, but only if those like us are not disadvantaged. As I've said before, Linux is all about choice. If someone wants to plug in a -- Sridhar Dhanapalan. Your mouse has moved. Windows must be rebooted to acknowledge this change. -- Sridhar Dhanapalan. Your mouse has moved. Windows must be rebooted to acknowledge this change.
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
I think a new user should be faced with something like this: Xwindows Mouse Installation Wiz Button 1[add] list of functions Button 2[remove]list of functions Button 3 or 1+2 list of functions Button 4 1+2 or a-1 list of functions Button 5 1+3 or a-2 list of functions Button 6 2+3 or a-1+2 list of functions Button 7 1+2+3 or doubleclick 1 list of functions list of functions list of functions etc etc etc.. He should be able to get to this by entering "xmouse" at a command prompt. This is mouse0. Mouse1 should be also configurable, bearing in mind that you can't have two *separate* ps2 mice, tho I understand that you can hook up 2 and use them. The buttons would share. They're just switches, after all. (So is a computer :-)) Some of the functions need dialogs for pressure, axis, etc. We don't have this because W$ users have bad habits, and they continue to have a bad influence. Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote: I agree with you - at least in part. I believe that Linux should have legacy hardware support, but only if those like us are not disadvantaged. As I've said before, Linux is all about choice. If someone wants to plug in a
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
I like your idea, but this appears to be more of a job for the window manager than for X itself, since different window managers have different feature sets and different ways of doing things. As I mentioned before, I quite like the Sawfish configuration options. These allow a multitude of combinations involving the mouse, the keyboard, or even both together. While it may not have everything you may want, remember that Sawfish is a relatively young window manager (compared to, say, Enlightenment and WindowMaker) and its feature set is improving over time. On Mon, 18 Dec 2000 23:45, David Raleigh Arnold wrote: I think a new user should be faced with something like this: Xwindows Mouse Installation Wiz Button 1[add] list of functions Button 2[remove]list of functions Button 3 or 1+2 list of functions Button 4 1+2 or a-1 list of functions Button 5 1+3 or a-2 list of functions Button 6 2+3 or a-1+2 list of functions Button 7 1+2+3 or doubleclick 1 list of functions list of functions list of functions etc etc etc.. He should be able to get to this by entering "xmouse" at a command prompt. This is mouse0. Mouse1 should be also configurable, bearing in mind that you can't have two *separate* ps2 mice, tho I understand that you can hook up 2 and use them. The buttons would share. They're just switches, after all. (So is a computer :-)) Some of the functions need dialogs for pressure, axis, etc. We don't have this because W$ users have bad habits, and they continue to have a bad influence. Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote: I agree with you - at least in part. I believe that Linux should have legacy hardware support, but only if those like us are not disadvantaged. As I've said before, Linux is all about choice. If someone wants to plug in a -- Sridhar Dhanapalan. Your mouse has moved. Windows must be rebooted to acknowledge this change.
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Bad habits because of how destructive they are. I think I explained why the mouse support is horrible in linux. The reason it is horrible in windows was that BG wanted to keep the 3-button mouse off the market so he could be the one to profit from an additional feature rather than Logitech, etc.. He sold millions of suckers the "Microsoft Mouse", which had no improved functionality whatever except to tell the os "I am a MS Mouse." Catering to victimized people with a 2 button mouse has retarded functionality. A mouse costs $3. Throw away all 2-button mice. It's history. That's what happened. Not my fault. You are a great guy, and you have been very helpful to a lot of people on this list. If I could only get off of it :-) Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote: In the open source world (less so in the commercial world), features are implemented in the way that developers like, or in the way that users pressure developers to do. As I said earlier, a GUI can be a very personal thing. Your idea of a "bad habit" probably isn't bad to the rest (or the majority) of us. If you feel so strongly about it, then why don't you let the developers know, or even get into developing these features yourself? You seem to prefer a world where everyone agrees with you, and so they implement everything just as you want without your interaction. This simply is not possible. On Sat, 16 Dec 2000 13:20, David Raleigh Arnold wrote: Doing half of these things is not good enough. I'm talking stuff that could and should have been done five years ago. To do half of those things, a 2 button mouse would do. That is the point. There are hardly any relevant settings except switch right and left. No settings for combinations of mb's except to help use a goddam 2 button mouse. Windows users have bad habits, and that has resulted in serious harm to linux software. I am not insulted, merely frustrated by your very negative attitude. :-) Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote: Have you even *looked* at alternatives that *can* do these things? Before you start bitching, I can say that I'm sure that Sawfish can do at least half of these things, and its configurability is getting better all the time. Try looking at the settings instead of just complaining when all of what you want isn't there by default and served to you on a silver platter. My apologies if I sound rude, but there are many other window managers out there apart from Enlightenment. Sawfish, in fact, is the GNOME default, and can do (IMHO) everything that Enlightenment can do and more. On Fri, 15 Dec 2000 22:23, David Raleigh Arnold wrote: One more time: I want to be able to select a rectangle full of files and drag the lot to another directory using only the mouse. I want to be able to copy with the right mb, place with the left mb, and paste with the middle. I want to be able to call up a menu for gnome and Enlightenment complete by clicking buttons 12. I want to be able to start a program with a single click, and drag with the right mouse button instead of the left, which was a better way, because it made group select work. I want to call up the running items in a desktop by clicking 23. I want to delete by clicking 13. I want to be able to scroll faster or slower by using combinations of mb's. I want 123 to do something. KDE won't do it because W$ won't do it, and they intend to be able to port stuff to W$. Gnome won't do it because they listen mainly to W$ users, and W$ users *have* *bad* *habits*. I don't want to restrict anything. You do. Dennis Myers wrote: On Thursday 14 December 2000 05:09 pm, you wrote: I guess everybody's entitled to their opinion, but to put down the hard work of the KDE developers (never used Gnome but I bet they've put lots of blood, sweat and tears into it as well) is something that I for one bristle at. The configurability of the KDE interface is clearly deeper than you have cared to go; I am certain that one of the developers could enlighten you as to how to adjust your interface to your preference(way better than me) _if_they_weren't_so_busy_working_on_making_all_our_lives_better. David Raleigh Arnold wrote: I guess I failed to make my point. There should be no double clicking at all. There should be group select and drag. There should be no nono nonono alt or ctl + mousebutton clicks ever. Only one mouse button, never two, should bring up a menu. We don't have this because the people at kde and gnome keep trying to be like windows instead of better. -michael- wrote: I have a Logitec laser mouse with 2 buttons and a scroller. I am thrilled with mandrake's support of it in the kde environ. windows requires other drivers and so it's just another proof of linux'
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
I agree with you - at least in part. I believe that Linux should have legacy hardware support, but only if those like us are not disadvantaged. As I've said before, Linux is all about choice. If someone wants to plug in a one-button i-mac USB mouse and use that, then they should be able to, no matter how stupid we think they are (and they would have to be). If, on the other hand, I wish to connect a ten-button beast that has buttons to make a cup of earl grey and to wash the dishes I should be able to as well. If in the future I wish to change the function of one of these buttons to paint the house, I should be able to. These are just examples. For Linux to be popular and beat M$, it should be inclusive, the OS for everyone. But only as long as it doesn't stop more advanced users such as ourselves from doing what we want. If we start dictating what is good and what is bad, we risk becoming another M$. On Mon, 18 Dec 2000 20:14, David Raleigh Arnold wrote: Bad habits because of how destructive they are. I think I explained why the mouse support is horrible in linux. The reason it is horrible in windows was that BG wanted to keep the 3-button mouse off the market so he could be the one to profit from an additional feature rather than Logitech, etc.. He sold millions of suckers the "Microsoft Mouse", which had no improved functionality whatever except to tell the os "I am a MS Mouse." Catering to victimized people with a 2 button mouse has retarded functionality. A mouse costs $3. Throw away all 2-button mice. It's history. That's what happened. Not my fault. You are a great guy, and you have been very helpful to a lot of people on this list. If I could only get off of it :-) Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote: In the open source world (less so in the commercial world), features are implemented in the way that developers like, or in the way that users pressure developers to do. As I said earlier, a GUI can be a very personal thing. Your idea of a "bad habit" probably isn't bad to the rest (or the majority) of us. If you feel so strongly about it, then why don't you let the developers know, or even get into developing these features yourself? You seem to prefer a world where everyone agrees with you, and so they implement everything just as you want without your interaction. This simply is not possible. On Sat, 16 Dec 2000 13:20, David Raleigh Arnold wrote: Doing half of these things is not good enough. I'm talking stuff that could and should have been done five years ago. To do half of those things, a 2 button mouse would do. That is the point. There are hardly any relevant settings except switch right and left. No settings for combinations of mb's except to help use a goddam 2 button mouse. Windows users have bad habits, and that has resulted in serious harm to linux software. I am not insulted, merely frustrated by your very negative attitude. :-) Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote: Have you even *looked* at alternatives that *can* do these things? Before you start bitching, I can say that I'm sure that Sawfish can do at least half of these things, and its configurability is getting better all the time. Try looking at the settings instead of just complaining when all of what you want isn't there by default and served to you on a silver platter. My apologies if I sound rude, but there are many other window managers out there apart from Enlightenment. Sawfish, in fact, is the GNOME default, and can do (IMHO) everything that Enlightenment can do and more. On Fri, 15 Dec 2000 22:23, David Raleigh Arnold wrote: One more time: I want to be able to select a rectangle full of files and drag the lot to another directory using only the mouse. I want to be able to copy with the right mb, place with the left mb, and paste with the middle. I want to be able to call up a menu for gnome and Enlightenment complete by clicking buttons 12. I want to be able to start a program with a single click, and drag with the right mouse button instead of the left, which was a better way, because it made group select work. I want to call up the running items in a desktop by clicking 23. I want to delete by clicking 13. I want to be able to scroll faster or slower by using combinations of mb's. I want 123 to do something. KDE won't do it because W$ won't do it, and they intend to be able to port stuff to W$. Gnome won't do it because they listen mainly to W$ users, and W$ users *have* *bad* *habits*. I don't want to restrict anything. You do. Dennis Myers wrote: On Thursday 14 December 2000 05:09 pm, you wrote: I guess everybody's entitled to their opinion, but to put down the hard work of the KDE developers (never used Gnome but I bet they've put lots of blood, sweat and tears into it as well) is
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Abe Lincoln said that I will let you be in my dreams if I can be in yours,,, and Bob Dylan said that... - Original Message - From: "paddock" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 11:02 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux "You can please some of the people some of the time, and you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time." Somebody famous said that, I forget who. Will Rogers, perhaps? -- I hope you and yours are prospering! --Paddock --- Registered Linux user 190974 ( 2000-Oct-05 ).
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
DUDE!!! I did not think anyone else would remember that song - Original Message - From: "-michael-" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 9:19 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux On Friday 15 December 2000 15:51, regarding Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux, you said: Uhh, some dude/dudette said it. (Sorry just messin!) :) I think I am way off, I was going to say W.C. Fields but that is not right, he is the one who said 'Anyone who hates kids and dogs can't be all bad.' On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Dennis Myers wrote: "You can please some of the people some of the time, and you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time." Somebody famous said that, I forget who. -- Dennis Myers registered Linux User #180842 It was Bob Dylan in a song called Talkin World War 3 Blues ..."I'll let you be in my dream if I can be in yours- I said that"... the next line in the song... -- ~enjoy!~ -michael-
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
I thought Thomas Jefferson said that. tdh -- T. Holmes Unixtechs.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.unixtechs.org/ "Real Men use Vi." * Ed Tharp [EMAIL PROTECTED] [001217 08:19]: Abe Lincoln said that I will let you be in my dreams if I can be in yours,,, and Bob Dylan said that... - Original Message - From: "paddock" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 11:02 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux "You can please some of the people some of the time, and you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time." Somebody famous said that, I forget who. Will Rogers, perhaps? -- I hope you and yours are prospering! --Paddock --- Registered Linux user 190974 ( 2000-Oct-05 ).
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
True. Many Windows consumers wouldn't give a flying flip as long as it works. And, I can see reason. Now that PC sales are down, what's next? Service? Hardware? Browser? In home digital PC didn't blast off as big as people thought. From the marketing end, companies are already running focus groups. Does the public want a finished, polished product, or buy the source and make it yourself? People that have more time will buy the source and work on their own version or flavor -- customize. Others, that aren't into programming will buy the finished product. Ultimately, the ball is in the customer's court. Mark Johnson wrote: -Original Message- From: Benjamin Sher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 6:01 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux Bottom line: Until Linux, which is rich in thousands of applications, has an equally vast and varied collection of CONSUMER applications of every sort, it won't quite be ready for prime time. And this won't happen till Linux is much more popular. The old chicken and egg problem: no consumer applications until there is a consumer market for Linux big enough to justify it, and no consumer market until there are applications. And this won't happen until it's easy enough for my mom, wife, and brother to use and until the elite hacker attitude subsides. Linux is still a paradise for coders not users... However, most linux users don't care about running Quicken and such, for linux to win they must pull users off of Windows and onto linux (these are the only converts, you won't get a lot of MAC users to give up their OS). The intrinsic road block of linux is the "cult" personality, like MAC and BSD, us folks are generally emotionally tied to the OS. Most windows users couldn't give a flying flip that they are using Windows they just want integrated office products and the facility offered by those products (and to be able to run their games). They don't want to be system administrators, just like I don't want to be a car mechanic. I want my car to work when I drive it off the lot. I will never upgrade the stereo or engine or interior, i'm just not interested in doing that. But this isn't a morally depraved behavior, it's just the way it is. Meanwhile, Linux as an OS, with its great and beautiful and configurable new graphical KDE and Gnome desktops The thing is most ordinary users don't care what the OS is they care about the interface and how easy it is to get their job done and how easy it is to integrate their favorite apps. I don't think most folks even mess with their Windows settings. (Just showing my wife the "Send To" mechanism in Explorer is like pulling teeth!) Having said that, may the gods be praised for the efforts of the KDE and Gnome folks but there is still much road to build. The thing that should strike fear into the marrow of our bones is that if MS decided to build a flavor of Linux I think it would be a reasonable assumption that people like my mom and brother would ditch the Windows environment and adopt the linux platform because they don't care out the OS, they care about the usabilty of the products and the availablity of the products. We laugh about the MS Linux website parody, but really, if MS ever decided to distribute a flavor of linux I believe they would give Mandrake, SuSE, RedHat, and etc. a very hard run for their money. People would actually be willing to give their hard earned money for this new very stable linux distrbution version of "Windows", very few of us have probably given a dime to Mandrake for all their hard work. If MFC, VB, and COM was made available for linux you can be sure that applications would start to appear like crazy. MS has enough resources and money to pull this off - it might not ever happen - but if it did it would be a very bad thing. All sorts of bastardizations of perl, python, syslog, cron, you name it MS will tweak it to lock my family into their version of linux. I would guess that the most important of all browsers is Mozilla because, when it is completed this spring, it will spawn dozens of branded versions, which, while building on Mozilla, will add special features of their own. In other words, Internet Explorer will find itself faced not with one derivated, namely, Netscape 6 but with dozens of equally powerful (and superior) browsers all built on the open-source Mozilla. This will be good for the consumers acorss all platforms and a last laugh at Microsoft with a vengeance. There is already one major spinoff of Mozilla called Beonex. It's still not quite ready, either. But by the end of the coming year, IE will find itself outgunned on every front by the Mozilla browsers (under a variety of brands) which they themselves caused by forcing Netscape to go open-source. It will be sweet revenge on Microsoft. I hope so, but m
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
What have I started? This is one of the longest threads. Let's kill this and send it to /dev/null/ Roman Mark Weaver wrote: Man! hasn't this thread died yet? Geez! I miss my Pine! Mark Roger Sherman wrote: Especially for us blackbox users... peace, Rog http://www.slammingrooves.com Registered Linux user #190719 On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Mark Johnson wrote: well, in this case this has nothing to do with Windows, but rather gaming... But honestly, I don't understand why a multi-button mouse is a bad thing? It seems like an ergonomic issue. I guess this is the first time I've ever heard that having more than one button on a mouse is a bad thing... -Original Message- From: David Raleigh Arnold [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 5:08 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux Mark Johnson wrote: FYI, I asked for 6 button mouse for Christmas! yhs: 1 2 3 1+2 1+3 2+3 1+2+3 count 'em. Windows users have bad habits. Pandering to them has seriously harmed linux software, and continues to do so.
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
I wouldn't worry about it. Most of prefer to be in control of our os. Roman Vic wrote: I hope that he does not think its "the os for everyone" some will like it, some will hate it, and if he does maek it, I hope hje will consider making hsi version of the os still configurable and do what *the user/operator* tells it to do instead of doing what *it* wants to do. I choose to use Linux because it obeys me, runs clean, and gets the job done for me. On Fri, 15 Dec 2000, Mark Johnson wrote: Doesn't this just make you sick! What is the world coming to, sheesh! Keeping Up Appearances http://newsletter.webtechniques.com/cgi-bin4/flo?y=eBgu0BTFgu0Ph0CCaZ Eazel's Andy Hertzfeld is on a quest to make Linux the most user-friendly operating system available. By Yvonne L. Lee.
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
This is one of the reasons for open source? Romanator wrote: I wouldn't worry about it. Most of us prefer to be in control of our os. Roman Vic wrote: I hope that he does not think its "the os for everyone" some will like it, some will hate it, and if he does maek it, I hope hje will consider making hsi version of the os still configurable and do what *the user/operator* tells it to do instead of doing what *it* wants to do. I choose to use Linux because it obeys me, runs clean, and gets the job done for me. On Fri, 15 Dec 2000, Mark Johnson wrote: Doesn't this just make you sick! What is the world coming to, sheesh! Keeping Up Appearances http://newsletter.webtechniques.com/cgi-bin4/flo?y=eBgu0BTFgu0Ph0CCaZ Eazel's Andy Hertzfeld is on a quest to make Linux the most user-friendly operating system available. By Yvonne L. Lee.
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
BANG! it died. On Fri, 15 Dec 2000, Romanator wrote: What have I started? This is one of the longest threads. Let's kill this and send it to /dev/null/
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Great! Now let's move on to another one... Roman Vic wrote: BANG! it died. On Fri, 15 Dec 2000, Romanator wrote: What have I started? This is one of the longest threads. Let's kill this and send it to /dev/null/
RE: [newbie] gates gets Linux
whatever. this is a dumb conversation. try playing quake3 or UT with only a single mouse button. Mice have more then one button because people use them for more then navigating their desktop GUI. Oh yes, in windows everything on my machine is set to single click but in windowmaker I like double click. Abe Original Message --- From: Mark Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 18:19:07 -0600 well, in this case this has nothing to do with Windows, but rather gaming... But honestly, I don't understand why a multi-button mouse is a bad thing? It seems like an ergonomic issue. I guess this is the first time I've ever heard that having more than one button on a mouse is a bad thing... -Original Message- From: David Raleigh Arnold [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 5:08 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux Mark Johnson wrote: FYI, I asked for 6 button mouse for Christmas! yhs: 1 2 3 1+2 1+3 2+3 1+2+3 count 'em. Windows users have bad habits. Pandering to them has seriously harmed linux software, and continues to do so. Jesus saves, Allah forgives, Chuthulu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich.
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
I agree. If you start forcing methods of doing things onto users, then it is just M$ all over again. The key to Linux is choice. I don't want a Stalin/Hitler/Ze Dong/Gates telling me what to do! I personally hate single clicks. I find that I can configure my window manager (Sawfish) to do funky things with double-clicks, thus giving me much more functionality. If someone else wants single-clicking, they can have it, but not at the expense of others like myself. Come to think of it, you *can* make Sawfish (and hence most of GNOME) to accept single clicks. If David Raleigh Arnold had even bothered to look at the Sawfish control centre, he would have noticed that this is very possible. On Fri, 15 Dec 2000 05:42, Mark Johnson wrote: huh? why would less options ever be favorable for a linux environment. It's all about user preference and flexible configurations. I don't think it's about shoulds and shouldn'ts, I can't imagine any moral reason why a user should be disallowed from activating double clicking, or for that matter why a user should be disallowed from activating single clicking. FYI, I asked for 6 button mouse for Christmas! (ps: is unix/linux the home of the three button mouse?) -Original Message- From: David Raleigh Arnold [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 3:06 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux I guess I failed to make my point. There should be no double clicking at all. There should be group select and drag. There should be no nono nonono alt or ctl + mousebutton clicks ever. Only one mouse button, never two, should bring up a menu. We don't have this because the people at kde and gnome keep trying to be like windows instead of better. -- Sridhar Dhanapalan. Your mouse has moved. Windows must be rebooted to acknowledge this change.
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
One more time: I want to be able to select a rectangle full of files and drag the lot to another directory using only the mouse. I want to be able to copy with the right mb, place with the left mb, and paste with the middle. I want to be able to call up a menu for gnome and Enlightenment complete by clicking buttons 12. I want to be able to start a program with a single click, and drag with the right mouse button instead of the left, which was a better way, because it made group select work. I want to call up the running items in a desktop by clicking 23. I want to delete by clicking 13. I want to be able to scroll faster or slower by using combinations of mb's. I want 123 to do something. KDE won't do it because W$ won't do it, and they intend to be able to port stuff to W$. Gnome won't do it because they listen mainly to W$ users, and W$ users *have* *bad* *habits*. I don't want to restrict anything. You do. Dennis Myers wrote: On Thursday 14 December 2000 05:09 pm, you wrote: I guess everybody's entitled to their opinion, but to put down the hard work of the KDE developers (never used Gnome but I bet they've put lots of blood, sweat and tears into it as well) is something that I for one bristle at. The configurability of the KDE interface is clearly deeper than you have cared to go; I am certain that one of the developers could enlighten you as to how to adjust your interface to your preference(way better than me) _if_they_weren't_so_busy_working_on_making_all_our_lives_better. David Raleigh Arnold wrote: I guess I failed to make my point. There should be no double clicking at all. There should be group select and drag. There should be no nono nonono alt or ctl + mousebutton clicks ever. Only one mouse button, never two, should bring up a menu. We don't have this because the people at kde and gnome keep trying to be like windows instead of better. -michael- wrote: I have a Logitec laser mouse with 2 buttons and a scroller. I am thrilled with mandrake's support of it in the kde environ. windows requires other drivers and so it's just another proof of linux' superiority imho. David Raleigh Arnold wrote: Ian Land wrote: Well, that's only true if you use a window manager like KDE. Others, like Gnome, use double-clicks. So, a single-click is not "the Linux way". The Windows gui can be configured to act like Internet Explorer, which also means single-clicks. This isn't an OS question, it's a gui question. One of the "bad habits" is having to double-click when a single click will do. For those of us who use both OS's it's quite distracting, and I think the Linux way makes more sense. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] "They said I was mad; and I said they were mad; damn them, they outvoted me" - Nathaniel Lee Windows mouse support stinks, and it is terminally stupid to continue to support the two button mouse. Both KDE and Gnome are guilty of this, but KDE is worse because of a desire to use the qt library for both windows and linux. For the Gnome developers there is no excuse for their failure to use all seven mouse buttons. Double clicks should be long gone by now. :-) "You can please some of the people some of the time, and you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time." Somebody famous said that, I forget who. -- Dennis Myers registered Linux User #180842
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Uhh, some dude/dudette said it. (Sorry just messin!) :) I think I am way off, I was going to say W.C. Fields but that is not right, he is the one who said 'Anyone who hates kids and dogs can't be all bad.' On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Dennis Myers wrote: "You can please some of the people some of the time, and you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time." Somebody famous said that, I forget who. -- Dennis Myers registered Linux User #180842
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Even MacOS X (yes, the Mac!) is going to have options for multi-button mice. Even then, people still have the choce to keep their 1-button mouse if they want. People have the final say in what they want, not some monolithic corporation that doesn't really care about you, only about their wallets. If only MacOS X was like that in other departments also. For example, presently the GUI look is not easily configurable. Also (more as a side note), Apple recently asked VA Linux to remove Mac-lookalike themes (Aqua, AquaX, eMac and eMac-GTK) from their themes.org website. On Fri, 15 Dec 2000 11:19, Mark Johnson wrote: well, in this case this has nothing to do with Windows, but rather gaming... But honestly, I don't understand why a multi-button mouse is a bad thing? It seems like an ergonomic issue. I guess this is the first time I've ever heard that having more than one button on a mouse is a bad thing... -Original Message- From: David Raleigh Arnold [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 5:08 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux Mark Johnson wrote: FYI, I asked for 6 button mouse for Christmas! yhs: 1 2 3 1+2 1+3 2+3 1+2+3 count 'em. Windows users have bad habits. Pandering to them has seriously harmed linux software, and continues to do so. -- Sridhar Dhanapalan. Your mouse has moved. Windows must be rebooted to acknowledge this change.
RE: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Doesn't this just make you sick! What is the world coming to, sheesh! Keeping Up Appearances http://newsletter.webtechniques.com/cgi-bin4/flo?y=eBgu0BTFgu0Ph0CCaZ Eazel's Andy Hertzfeld is on a quest to make Linux the most user-friendly operating system available. By Yvonne L. Lee. -Original Message- From: Mark Johnson Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 6:48 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: [newbie] gates gets Linux This is really nutty. I don't get it that a system must have some sort of arbitrary difficulty to be considered legitament. What's up with that? I took a human factors course in CS in college (VAX VMS/Apollo Suns (no windows around)). We studied lawsuit cases where system failures caused injury and death, the cause of these failures were do to this "arbitrary" complexity of the system, and the resolutions for those failures were typcially was to understand that the human being was the weakest part of the system; consquently, it was up to the system to reasonably guard against human failure. hmm... -Original Message- From: Anthony Daniell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 6:23 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux Thats true, I believe that linux should not become like windoze windoze sucks and makes people lazy. Been their done that and now am learning linux. I installed suse linux 7 pro and with 3417 apps it took about 6.5 gb of my hard disk. There is so much in linux. I looked through the minues in kde and was surprised at how many apps I have installed now. I am having a ball learning linux. When I learn't windoze it was easy it does every thing for you. Linux lets you make mistakes and teaches you how to fix these mistakes, Linux is the real os My 2cents worth Regards Anthony Daniell David Raleigh Arnold wrote: Mark Johnson wrote: FYI, I asked for 6 button mouse for Christmas! yhs: 1 2 3 1+2 1+3 2+3 1+2+3 count 'em. Windows users have bad habits. Pandering to them has seriously harmed linux software, and continues to do so.
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
On Friday 15 December 2000 15:51, regarding Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux, you said: Uhh, some dude/dudette said it. (Sorry just messin!) :) I think I am way off, I was going to say W.C. Fields but that is not right, he is the one who said 'Anyone who hates kids and dogs can't be all bad.' On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Dennis Myers wrote: "You can please some of the people some of the time, and you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time." Somebody famous said that, I forget who. -- Dennis Myers registered Linux User #180842 It was Bob Dylan in a song called Talkin World War 3 Blues ..."I'll let you be in my dream if I can be in yours- I said that"... the next line in the song... -- ~enjoy!~ -michael-
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Man! hasn't this thread died yet? Geez! I miss my Pine! Mark Roger Sherman wrote: Especially for us blackbox users... peace, Rog http://www.slammingrooves.com Registered Linux user #190719 On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Mark Johnson wrote: well, in this case this has nothing to do with Windows, but rather gaming... But honestly, I don't understand why a multi-button mouse is a bad thing? It seems like an ergonomic issue. I guess this is the first time I've ever heard that having more than one button on a mouse is a bad thing... -Original Message- From: David Raleigh Arnold [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 5:08 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux Mark Johnson wrote: FYI, I asked for 6 button mouse for Christmas! yhs: 1 2 3 1+2 1+3 2+3 1+2+3 count 'em. Windows users have bad habits. Pandering to them has seriously harmed linux software, and continues to do so.
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Have you even *looked* at alternatives that *can* do these things? Before you start bitching, I can say that I'm sure that Sawfish can do at least half of these things, and its configurability is getting better all the time. Try looking at the settings instead of just complaining when all of what you want isn't there by default and served to you on a silver platter. My apologies if I sound rude, but there are many other window managers out there apart from Enlightenment. Sawfish, in fact, is the GNOME default, and can do (IMHO) everything that Enlightenment can do and more. On Fri, 15 Dec 2000 22:23, David Raleigh Arnold wrote: One more time: I want to be able to select a rectangle full of files and drag the lot to another directory using only the mouse. I want to be able to copy with the right mb, place with the left mb, and paste with the middle. I want to be able to call up a menu for gnome and Enlightenment complete by clicking buttons 12. I want to be able to start a program with a single click, and drag with the right mouse button instead of the left, which was a better way, because it made group select work. I want to call up the running items in a desktop by clicking 23. I want to delete by clicking 13. I want to be able to scroll faster or slower by using combinations of mb's. I want 123 to do something. KDE won't do it because W$ won't do it, and they intend to be able to port stuff to W$. Gnome won't do it because they listen mainly to W$ users, and W$ users *have* *bad* *habits*. I don't want to restrict anything. You do. Dennis Myers wrote: On Thursday 14 December 2000 05:09 pm, you wrote: I guess everybody's entitled to their opinion, but to put down the hard work of the KDE developers (never used Gnome but I bet they've put lots of blood, sweat and tears into it as well) is something that I for one bristle at. The configurability of the KDE interface is clearly deeper than you have cared to go; I am certain that one of the developers could enlighten you as to how to adjust your interface to your preference(way better than me) _if_they_weren't_so_busy_working_on_making_all_our_lives_better. David Raleigh Arnold wrote: I guess I failed to make my point. There should be no double clicking at all. There should be group select and drag. There should be no nono nonono alt or ctl + mousebutton clicks ever. Only one mouse button, never two, should bring up a menu. We don't have this because the people at kde and gnome keep trying to be like windows instead of better. -michael- wrote: I have a Logitec laser mouse with 2 buttons and a scroller. I am thrilled with mandrake's support of it in the kde environ. windows requires other drivers and so it's just another proof of linux' superiority imho. David Raleigh Arnold wrote: Ian Land wrote: Well, that's only true if you use a window manager like KDE. Others, like Gnome, use double-clicks. So, a single-click is not "the Linux way". The Windows gui can be configured to act like Internet Explorer, which also means single-clicks. This isn't an OS question, it's a gui question. One of the "bad habits" is having to double-click when a single click will do. For those of us who use both OS's it's quite distracting, and I think the Linux way makes more sense. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] "They said I was mad; and I said they were mad; damn them, they outvoted me" - Nathaniel Lee Windows mouse support stinks, and it is terminally stupid to continue to support the two button mouse. Both KDE and Gnome are guilty of this, but KDE is worse because of a desire to use the qt library for both windows and linux. For the Gnome developers there is no excuse for their failure to use all seven mouse buttons. Double clicks should be long gone by now. :-) "You can please some of the people some of the time, and you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time." Somebody famous said that, I forget who. -- Dennis Myers registered Linux User #180842 -- Sridhar Dhanapalan. Your mouse has moved. Windows must be rebooted to acknowledge this change.
RE: [newbie] gates gets Linux
I hope that he does not think its "the os for everyone" some will like it, some will hate it, and if he does maek it, I hope hje will consider making hsi version of the os still configurable and do what *the user/operator* tells it to do instead of doing what *it* wants to do. I choose to use Linux because it obeys me, runs clean, and gets the job done for me. On Fri, 15 Dec 2000, Mark Johnson wrote: Doesn't this just make you sick! What is the world coming to, sheesh! Keeping Up Appearances http://newsletter.webtechniques.com/cgi-bin4/flo?y=eBgu0BTFgu0Ph0CCaZ Eazel's Andy Hertzfeld is on a quest to make Linux the most user-friendly operating system available. By Yvonne L. Lee.
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
I guess I failed to make my point. There should be no double clicking at all. There should be group select and drag. There should be no nono nonono alt or ctl + mousebutton clicks ever. Only one mouse button, never two, should bring up a menu. We don't have this because the people at kde and gnome keep trying to be like windows instead of better. -michael- wrote: I have a Logitec laser mouse with 2 buttons and a scroller. I am thrilled with mandrake's support of it in the kde environ. windows requires other drivers and so it's just another proof of linux' superiority imho. David Raleigh Arnold wrote: Ian Land wrote: Well, that's only true if you use a window manager like KDE. Others, like Gnome, use double-clicks. So, a single-click is not "the Linux way". The Windows gui can be configured to act like Internet Explorer, which also means single-clicks. This isn't an OS question, it's a gui question. One of the "bad habits" is having to double-click when a single click will do. For those of us who use both OS's it's quite distracting, and I think the Linux way makes more sense. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] "They said I was mad; and I said they were mad; damn them, they outvoted me" - Nathaniel Lee Windows mouse support stinks, and it is terminally stupid to continue to support the two button mouse. Both KDE and Gnome are guilty of this, but KDE is worse because of a desire to use the qt library for both windows and linux. For the Gnome developers there is no excuse for their failure to use all seven mouse buttons. Double clicks should be long gone by now. :-)
RE: [newbie] gates gets Linux
huh? why would less options ever be favorable for a linux environment. It's all about user preference and flexible configurations. I don't think it's about shoulds and shouldn'ts, I can't imagine any moral reason why a user should be disallowed from activating double clicking, or for that matter why a user should be disallowed from activating single clicking. FYI, I asked for 6 button mouse for Christmas! (ps: is unix/linux the home of the three button mouse?) -Original Message- From: David Raleigh Arnold [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 3:06 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux I guess I failed to make my point. There should be no double clicking at all. There should be group select and drag. There should be no nono nonono alt or ctl + mousebutton clicks ever. Only one mouse button, never two, should bring up a menu. We don't have this because the people at kde and gnome keep trying to be like windows instead of better.
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
I guess everybody's entitled to their opinion, but to put down the hard work of the KDE developers (never used Gnome but I bet they've put lots of blood, sweat and tears into it as well) is something that I for one bristle at. The configurability of the KDE interface is clearly deeper than you have cared to go; I am certain that one of the developers could enlighten you as to how to adjust your interface to your preference(way better than me) _if_they_weren't_so_busy_working_on_making_all_our_lives_better. David Raleigh Arnold wrote: I guess I failed to make my point. There should be no double clicking at all. There should be group select and drag. There should be no nono nonono alt or ctl + mousebutton clicks ever. Only one mouse button, never two, should bring up a menu. We don't have this because the people at kde and gnome keep trying to be like windows instead of better. -michael- wrote: I have a Logitec laser mouse with 2 buttons and a scroller. I am thrilled with mandrake's support of it in the kde environ. windows requires other drivers and so it's just another proof of linux' superiority imho. David Raleigh Arnold wrote: Ian Land wrote: Well, that's only true if you use a window manager like KDE. Others, like Gnome, use double-clicks. So, a single-click is not "the Linux way". The Windows gui can be configured to act like Internet Explorer, which also means single-clicks. This isn't an OS question, it's a gui question. One of the "bad habits" is having to double-click when a single click will do. For those of us who use both OS's it's quite distracting, and I think the Linux way makes more sense. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] "They said I was mad; and I said they were mad; damn them, they outvoted me" - Nathaniel Lee Windows mouse support stinks, and it is terminally stupid to continue to support the two button mouse. Both KDE and Gnome are guilty of this, but KDE is worse because of a desire to use the qt library for both windows and linux. For the Gnome developers there is no excuse for their failure to use all seven mouse buttons. Double clicks should be long gone by now. :-)
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Mark Johnson wrote: FYI, I asked for 6 button mouse for Christmas! yhs: 1 2 3 1+2 1+3 2+3 1+2+3 count 'em. Windows users have bad habits. Pandering to them has seriously harmed linux software, and continues to do so.
Re: [newbie] gates gets Linux
Hi, you could always get the code for kde and rewrite it yourself to do what you want, as for myself I don't know jack about programing and am new to linux. Even with the double clicking it blows windoze out of the water. You could also make sugestions to the kde and gnome teams about this. My 2cents worth. Regards Anthony Daniell. David Raleigh Arnold wrote: I guess I failed to make my point. There should be no double clicking at all. There should be group select and drag. There should be no nono nonono alt or ctl + mousebutton clicks ever. Only one mouse button, never two, should bring up a menu. We don't have this because the people at kde and gnome keep trying to be like windows instead of better. -michael- wrote: I have a Logitec laser mouse with 2 buttons and a scroller. I am thrilled with mandrake's support of it in the kde environ. windows requires other drivers and so it's just another proof of linux' superiority imho. David Raleigh Arnold wrote: Ian Land wrote: Well, that's only true if you use a window manager like KDE. Others, like Gnome, use double-clicks. So, a single-click is not "the Linux way". The Windows gui can be configured to act like Internet Explorer, which also means single-clicks. This isn't an OS question, it's a gui question. One of the "bad habits" is having to double-click when a single click will do. For those of us who use both OS's it's quite distracting, and I think the Linux way makes more sense. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] "They said I was mad; and I said they were mad; damn them, they outvoted me" - Nathaniel Lee Windows mouse support stinks, and it is terminally stupid to continue to support the two button mouse. Both KDE and Gnome are guilty of this, but KDE is worse because of a desire to use the qt library for both windows and linux. For the Gnome developers there is no excuse for their failure to use all seven mouse buttons. Double clicks should be long gone by now. :-)
