Re: [Talk-us] Tagging historic US routes

[Greg Morgan]

Only one person cared about US 80 in osm.  I have deleted portions of the
route because parts of it are artificial ways to make the route render.
These artificial ways interfered with other mapping.  You can do what you
want with the route including deleting.

On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 6:47 PM Tod Fitch  wrote:

> This weekend I drove part of AZ-79 and noticed that Arizona has now put up
> some “Historic US 80” signage. On the sections of highway I drove, every
> occurrence of a AZ-79 route marker now also has a historic US-80 route
> marker. (Back in the day that highway was dual signed as US-80 and US-89
> but I guess nobody cares about having historic US-89 markers at present.)
>
> I was in a rental car and eventually figured out how to get Apple CarPlay
> setup so I could use the OSM based Maps.me app to show the roads I was on.
> In doing so I saw that Maps.me was showing the road with dual highway
> shields: A AZ shield with 79 and a US shield with 80. Since US-80 was
> decommissioned a long time ago (at least in Arizona and California) this
> seems wrong so I thought I’d look at the tagging.
>
> The tagging is on a route relation [1], at least I don’t see tagging on
> the individual way segments that would render as “US 80”.
>
> How should this be tagged?
>
> Casting about for examples of what to do, it seems that the Lincoln
> Highway [2] relation is quite different. And US 66 in California has no
> historic route relation at all, just the current county road route [3].
>
> There is a German page on the wiki about “route=historic” [4]. My reading
> of a machine translation of it implies that instead of “route=road” the
> historic US 80 relation should have “route=historic” and “historic=road”.
>
> Suggestions?
>
>
> [1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/9230611
> [2] https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/3958115
> [3] https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/205719338
> [4] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:route%3Dhistoric
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] When is your doctor a clinic?

[Greg Morgan]

Brian,

That's my US American understanding of a clinic.  A clinic is not a
hospital and not a "doctors office".  But If I cannot get into my doctor or
if an individual does not need to go to the emergency room of a hospital,
then a clinic is a place to go.  For example, Honor Health is part of a
hospital system.  They are adding these "clinic" type places all over the
place as in here
https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=33.6404930901&lng=-112.0118460302&z=17&pKey=FJ_1oHqz8x2c1-PziWhxSQ&focus=photo&x=0.4913798647410984&y=0.548466145091522&zoom=0
In this case, they bought out another clinic and replaced it with their
Honor Health brand.

You will need to zoom in on this image
https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=33.67662935172414&lng=-111.97772731602434&z=17&pKey=sEr2RqD5xZYGSZGEej8oJw&focus=photo&x=0.8085766039159952&y=0.517578833862374&zoom=2.486737400530504
There
is also surgery center's.  Still not a hospital but invasive procedures are
performed at these locations.  A surgery center is cheaper than a hospital
per insurance dictates.  In this case you could go while with POIs.  Some
of these surgery centers are next to a string of retail POIs or may be in
the same wing of a building with retail space.

Don't know.  Some day I will sit down and map those.  I am just not
interested at the moment.

Regards,
Greg




On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 6:33 AM Brian Stromberg 
wrote:

> When I hear “clinic” in reference to a healthcare facility, I think of
> “urgent care” clinics, and I think there are about six urgent care clinics
> within a 20 minute drive of my local hospital. These are usually staffed
> with nurses and Physicians Assistants rather than MDs. It’s pretty common
> in the US for people to use these rather than the local emergency room, or
> even in lieu of a primary care doctor. Having them on OSM seems important
> if people need immediate care that doesn’t rise to the level of a hospital
> visit. For example, I took my mother to one near me when she had a fall (at
> her request, I might have preferred an actual hospital, but it wasn’t a
> great time to argue...). They often serve you faster and there is less
> administrative processing involved.
>
> Just wanted to share an American perspective.
>
> On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 7:56 AM Philip Barnes 
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 2020-01-24 at 00:51 +0100, Frederik Ramm wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > On 1/23/20 22:42, Paul Johnson wrote:
>> > > There may be a disconnect with what the US (or that spammer)
>> > > means.
>> > > Could I get a clarification on the difference between "doctors" and
>> > > "clinic" as you understand it?
>> >
>> > Personally (and in my country - Germany) there's precious little I
>> > would
>> > tag as a clinic; in everyday language we use the (german version of)
>> > the
>> > word clinic more or less synonymous with "hospital", with the
>> > possible
>> > exception that we'd also apply clinic to something that deals
>> > exclusively with non-illness-related things like e.g. a beauty clinic
>> > or
>> > a drug rehab clinic. In my language, a clinic would always be
>> > something
>> > where you can (and usually do) have a bed and stay for longer until
>> > the
>> > treatment is over. A building with a couple of different medical
>> > practitioners might be a "Gemeinschaftspraxis" ("shared practice") or
>> > perhaps an "Ärztehaus" (doctors' house) but not a "Klinik". Then
>> > again
>> > these would hardly ever be open 24/7...
>> >
>> > I'm not trying to apply my understanding of medical establishments to
>> > the US - just asking what the general understanding is on your side
>> > of
>> > the pond. Does Jmapb's distinction sound more or less ok for others
>> > too?
>> > He wrote:
>> >
>> Even in the UK, where OSM originated, clinics are quite rare.
>>
>> A clinic is where outpatients go, usually referred by their doctor to
>> see a specialist.
>>
>> The on the ground reality is that most clinics take place within
>> hospitals.
>>
>> Standalone clinics do exist, there is one in my town, but will tend not
>> to exist in larger towns or cities which have hospitals.
>>
>> HTH
>> Phil (trigpoint)
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-us mailing list
>> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>>
> --
> --
> Brian
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Alt_names on counties

[Greg Morgan]

Please don't remove the alt_name tags.  They are useful and not that much
of a distraction or an error  For example, a new freeway was just renamed
for a congress person that helped with many AZ transportation projects.  I
added the alt_name tag so that the South Mountain Freeway can still be
found in a search.  The new name is months old while the old alt_name has
been used for decade.  Not everyone calls Pima County by its full name.
That's why I think that the mapper added the alt_name so that
searches would be successful.

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/78850121

On Wed, Dec 25, 2019 at 6:26 PM Tod Fitch  wrote:

> I’ve noticed that a number of counties in California and Arizona have what
> seems to be unneeded alt_name tags in their boundary relations. For example
> Pima County, Arizona has name=“Pima County” and alt_name=“Pima”. Same for
> Pinal County in Arizona and Riverside, Orange, Kern and Ventura counties in
> California. But this does not seem universal as the few counties I looked
> at in Washington state have only a name=* tag (e.g. name=“Columbia County”).
>
> I don’t see a wiki page for the standard for this in the United States. Is
> there one I’ve missed?
>
> Assuming there is not standard for this, should there be? And what should
> it be? (My preference is to remove an alt_name that is simply the name
> without “County”.)
>
> For what it is worth, it looks like the alt_names for counties in Arizona
> and California were added in 2014 by the user “revent” who is still
> actively mapping borders around the world.
>
> Thanks!
> Tod
>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] TIGER-completeness visualizer?

[Greg Morgan]

On Sat, Dec 21, 2019 at 2:03 PM stevea  wrote:

> As the ITOworld TIGER-completeness visualizer at
>
>
> https://product.itoworld.com/map/162?lon=-121.88&lat=37.04&zoom=12&fullscreen=true&open_sidebar=map_key
>
> is no longer supported, does anybody know of a similar "product" that we
> can use to visualize how well we have reviewed TIGER roads (and rail?) in a
> given area?
>
> I REALLY miss that visualizer!  It showed whether highway=* ways were
> "touched in the last three years," whether the tiger:reviewed=no tag was
> removed and so on.  It was very well done and quite informative.
>
> I suppose a dedicated renderer could be built, that's pretty ambitious,
> though it is a worthy project, imo.
>

History:
* First there was Andy's green/red Tiger fixup map.  That was a great
simple map. The map would go from red to green when you killed the reviewed
tag.
* Mapquest picked up this map for a bit but it died when the group was
decommissioned.
* Itoworld was a nice version that added many more colors and the date last
touched.  The map was damaged when certain tags were no longer saved with
each edit.  These were removed in the background.  I started removing all
the Tiger tags because most of the map started turning black.  You could
tell what was edited or not.  The map almost reverted to Andy's map.
*There was a Battle Grid map. The original was lost but there is a
replacement that you have to run by yourself as far as I can tell.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TIGER_Battlegrid
https://github.com/iandees/tiger-battlegrid

My problem with Battle Grid map was that the the colors were too light when
you revised Tiger data.  I liked the idea because it reminded me of the Who
Did It Map. Something simple like a grid but use two colors like the
original fixup map but with no fading.  All each tile at zoom 16 needs to
do is change color and tell you how many more ways need to be touched.
Most of the tiles would be red until you touched all the roads.  Then the
tile would go green.  Again my approach is to removed all the Tiger tags
because the street names have been expanded.  I don't do this on major
connecting highways because I am not sure that all the routes have been
defined yet.  Tiger will have some of that route data in the list of tags.


> Bonus points for your best guess at when OSM will eventually complete a
> full TIGER data review.  I'll start:  at the rate we're going now, 2045?
>

April 2050  for nodes
June 2028 for ways
based on Ben Discoe's burn rate calculations.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/bdiscoe/diary/44192
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HiC1-ixx30tbwgI27RJt1SvvK80BBRkLOg98Qcb0SD0/edit#gid=1034182050


Ben's spreadsheet mentions all these mappers except for balrog-kun for the
western states name expansion bot.
woodpeck_fixbot
TIGERcnl
jumbanho
jremillard-massgis
bot-mode
DaveHansenTiger
balrog-kun

I often use this list of mappers as a way of checking Tiger progress.  Note
that woodpeck_fixbot removed Tiger tags on nodes.  Hence, you have an idea
if the street has been touched or not for most of the cases.

Finally, I am not sure that OSMOSE would be a way to track Tiger data.  I
like the positive idea for moving forward.  I suppose that a pin would
render on every Tiger way might work.  The cycle times on some areas a
really slow in OSMOSE.  You'd have to close all the pins after each edit to
see how you are doing.  That effort adds to the pain.  I think the
challenge for the U.S. project is that most of these maps have been
maintained outside the U.S.  If implemented, I am not sure how long OSMOSE
would provide the service.

Regards,
Greg
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] New United States Bicycle Routes!

[Greg Morgan]

I will be happy to review your implementation of the route. A second pass
is always good for these turn by turn routes. It will have to wait until
later in the day. I have an internet outage right now.

I found Kentucky surprising when I have gone to visit. I am used to the
open road of the western states. Barrow pits on either side of the road are
used to build the road bed. In Kentucky it is very common to have a
gigantic tree at the edge of the road...well the minor roads. As I recall
all the roads leading into Lexington form spokes to a hub. These roads were
the horse trails to the tobacco markets. The roads in Kentucky have a very
different feel.

I will check both routes to the latest version of tiger data. I am not sure
that will help. As far as I know, the city, county, and states feed their
data to the census. If the data isn't that good to begin with or there has
been rapid changes, then you are going to run into the issues that you
describe. I have had to search for key roads in a number of states to
complete various USBRs. Kentucky also feels different because the counties
are the driving governments as I recall. If counties do not have thousands
and thousands of dollars for ESRI software to maintain the data, then you
will have these issues.

I also found some areas of poverty remarkable. The anti-importers want to
write studies that the Tiger import killed the community when in fact the
real issue is that we do not have the same density of mappers as some
locations in Europe. In the case of Kentucky parts of it are so rural that
a person is lucky to have phone service. Adding information to OSM is a
leisure class activity of time and resources.  I remember fields and fields
of tabacco crops years ago. The same areas have no cash crops.

I am not alarmed at the condition of Tiger data in Kentucky especially when
you consider parts of the state.


On Fri, Oct 26, 2018, 3:31 PM OSM Volunteer stevea <
stevea...@softworkers.com> wrote:

> I have completed a first draft of USBR 21 in Kentucky.  This was actually
> quite difficult as the TIGER name tags frequently do not match what highway
> names on the application from Kentucky's DOT says.  I did not change these,
> I'll leave that for "locals," but there is a great deal of work to do to
> change highway names in OSM in Kentucky, as it appears that counties,
> cities and KDOT change names (and segment breaks that make them up) quite a
> lot in the last 11 years since TIGER data were entered.
>
> As our wiki says and as is good practice in OSM, Greg's 23 and my 21 data
> entry deserve a "double-check review" by another OSM volunteer, and while
> these are "green" in our wiki, they are a "light green" until this is
> completed.  Greg, if you email me off list and agree to double-check 21,
> I'll do the same to 23.  Others are welcome, of course; email one or both
> of us if you are interested in helping.
>
> SteveA
> California
>
> > On Oct 26, 2018, at 10:51 AM, OSM Volunteer stevea <
> stevea...@softworkers.com> wrote:
> >
> > Wow, Greg, you are quick.  Thank you!
> >
> > Additionally, (a major reason I'm including Kerry in this missive), I
> removed from OSM segments of Kentucky's USBR 23 which overlapped with ACA's
> Transamerica Trail (TA) "Mammoth Cave Loop."  (Now largely superseded by 76
> and 23).  These were between Highland Springs ("mid-state") and further
> north to Tanner, where 23 now connects to 76 at a T-intersection.  There
> are many reasons why OSM has been deprecating ACA routes in OSM:  these are
> proprietary and likely don't belong in OSM first place, and we document in
> our wiki that "over time, these tend to be replaced by USBRs" (among other
> reasons, like that they can get old and drift from updates that ACA can
> make or already has made).  Indeed, once again (as in the case of the
> northern segment of 76 in Kentucky replacing Mammoth Caves Loop earlier
> when 76 was approved in Kentucky), this segment of 23 100% overlaps with
> this ACA route, so yet another significant ACA route segment now deleted
> from OSM (as it is USBR now).
> >
> > Thanks again for your work to enter this, and keep up the great entry
> I'm guessing you are doing with USBR 21.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >> On Oct 26, 2018, at 6:18 AM, Greg Morgan 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Kentucky USBR 23  is done.
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/8843677#map=10/37.4960/-85.4712
> >
>
>
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] New United States Bicycle Routes!

[Greg Morgan]

Kentucky USBR 23  is done.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/8843677#map=10/37.4960/-85.4712

On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 12:30 PM OSM Volunteer stevea <
stevea...@softworkers.com> wrote:

> AASHTO has completed it's "Autumn 2018 round" of national route numbering
> approvals (almost) and there are new USBRs for OSM to map.
>
> One is already completed (thank you, user:micahcochran!):  USBR 15 was
> extended from Georgia into Florida to connect to Florida's existing USBR 90.
>
> In Kentucky, route data for USBR 21 (Georgia also has 21) and USBR 23
> (connecting to Tennessee's 23) are also available.  While our WikiProject
> (see https://wiki.osm.org/wiki/WikiProject_U.S._Bicycle_Route_System )
> has route data for both of these — PDF maps and turn-by-turn spreadsheets —
> the route is not quite yet approved.  I have been told by a knowledgable
> source that "the AASHTO bureaucrat in charge of preparing the vote didn't
> put the (Kentucky) applications in front of the committee.  As a result,
> the applications were sent to the committee for an email vote, which is not
> yet concluded."  That's OK.
>
> So, as is our usual (established for at least the last five years)
> process, we can take the sometimes substantial time and effort it takes to
> enter these while we wait for this "email vote approval" to complete, while
> the route is tagged state=proposed in the meantime.  Kentucky's 21 and 23
> are each "seeded" in one southern county, properly tagged, they simply need
> completion.  If AASHTO's email vote approves these, we remove the
> state=proposed tag, whether the route is fully entered into OSM or not.
> Let's enter it sooner rather than later!  Details on how to do so and links
> to route data in the cloud are found at the WikiProject link above.  Step
> right up, please!
>
> Thank you for making OSM (and its companion renderer OpenCycleMap, as well
> as other great bicycle routing tools) one of the most comprehensive bicycle
> routing platforms in the world.  Like "E pluribus, unum" in the USA, "Ex
> data, multum" in OSM:  "From data, much."  (Yes, I did just make that up!)
>
> SteveA
> California
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] [Imports-us] Importing Addresses in Orange County North Carolina

[Greg Morgan]

On Sat, Jun 23, 2018 at 2:57 PM, Tommy Bruce  wrote:

> I agree I don't see anything wrong with keeping the state and country tag.
>
> 2018-06-23 14:50 GMT-07:00 Greg Morgan :
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 2:34 PM Clifford Snow 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> A couple of things  First you have two tags that are not needed,
>>> addr:state and  addr:country.
>>>
>> I have a different opinion on this subject. I always add these two tags.
>> We are an international map. If he has the data already, I don't see why
>> they shouldn't be added. My view is shaped by living in a border state.
>>
>
I forgot to mention that these tags where handy when an influx of seo spam
hit my area.  There was no second thought about deleting the spam when
there were Washington, South Carolina, and what not in the seo spam
addresses.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] [Imports-us] Importing Addresses in Orange County North Carolina

[Greg Morgan]

On Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 2:34 PM Clifford Snow  wrote:

> A couple of things  First you have two tags that are not needed,
> addr:state and  addr:country.
>
I have a different opinion on this subject. I always add these two tags. We
are an international map. If he has the data already, I don't see why they
shouldn't be added. My view is shaped by living in a border state.

>
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Slack: Do we need an Alternative (was Planning an import in Price George...)

[Greg Morgan]

On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 9:42 AM, Martijn van Exel  wrote:

>
> I would argue that it is a good thing that people converge on one platform
> to talk about OSM. Whether Slack remains the right choice is something we
> can debate. It was really the only feasible choice that was available to us
> at the time we (OSM US) felt the need for a better platform for
> conversations. Slack has done its job as a for-profit non-open company well
> in the sense that we're somewhat locked in now. I dislike the fact that it
> is a walled garden, and becoming more so, as much as anyone who values free
> and open data and software. If there is a practical way to improve that
> situation, we should pursue it.
>
> Finally, please stop your unpleasant trolling, it has no place in OSM.
>
> Martijn


I am thinking of something that happened _even before Slack was around_.  I
found out late that, let's say it was, USSOTUM was already a go and that
planning in high gear.  Come to find out that I guess that I should be
reading the US Chapter's blog every day.  I don't recall seeing the
information in an email.  Well with the job that I have now, I have only so
much time to divide between mapping and other activities. Sometimes all I
have time for is a quick scan of email and adding a single node.  My older
phone was only 8G.  I had no room for anther app like slack.  What is nice
about email is that I can watch various OSM messages along with various
github notifications with just one app.  I just don't have time for all the
social media channels out there.

If part of the mission of the US chapter is to "spread the word", then the
chapter is not succeeding by selecting just one channel.  Not everyone has
a nice phone to load apps, or would care about slack, facebook, or
Twitter.  I think that the board needs to use all of the systems to get the
word out.

https://www.openstreetmap.us/
We support OpenStreetMap by holding annual conferences, providing community
resources, building partnerships, and by spreading the word.

Regards,
Greg
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Undiscussed mass-revert by user Nakaner-repair

[Greg Morgan]

On Sun, Apr 22, 2018 at 7:40 PM, Jack Armstrong dan...@sprynet.com <
jacknst...@sprynet.com> wrote:

> I fully support the efforts of Nakaner. There are 6-8 users creating a
> mess in the Denver, Colorado area.
>
> See here: https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?node=
> 5538075288#map=19/39.71967/-104.98736
>


I cannot tell.  What is it that these six to eight mappers are doing?  Are
these the same six to eight mappers that are receiving blocks?

Regards,
Greg
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Edit war after MapRoulette motorway downgrading task

[Greg Morgan]

On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 5:20 PM, Clay Smalley  wrote:

>
>
> I'm... shocked. This is a really confrontational way of addressing things,
> and it really doesn't make me feel good contributing here. I'm just gonna
> take a break from editing for a bit. I don't want to add fuel to the fire
> by reverting the edits.
>
> What's the best way to address this?
>
>
You asked for an opinion.  Node hoarders and node police mappers hurt the
project the most.  Regardless if you are right or wrong, you were changing
data right in UAN51's area of interest.  Try not to take the reversions
personally.  Develop a detached sense from your work and what other's do
with it.  The best way to handle it is just let it go.  It was just a few
tags.  The situation is escalating now that another mapper is jumping into
the question.  Moreover, the best thing that you can do right now is make
at least one small changeset a day in your normal area of interest.  That
will get you over the sting that you might feel right now. I am sure there
are plenty of items to add to the map in the metro Houston area.

I hope this helps,
Greg
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Amtrak network=Amtrak tagging

[Greg Morgan]

Thank you for the detailed response.

Greg

On Mar 25, 2018 11:57 PM, "OSM Volunteer stevea" 
wrote:

I should have included:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_United_States_railways

as that is a better starting place (for your flavor of question) than our
"at the top" Amtrak wiki.

There's a lot to grok to become a good OSM rail editor (and don't forget
updating wiki), yet, many of us are doing exactly that!

Steve
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Amtrak network=Amtrak tagging

[Greg Morgan]

I wonder what to do with some of the routes.  For example, additional
tracks were added in the Tucson area. If we add a route, say, us 60 then an
east and west relation is created along with a master route. Do we do the
same with rail routes or are all the rails thrown into the same relation?

Regards,
Greg

On Mar 25, 2018 7:30 PM, "OSM Volunteer stevea" 
wrote:

Gee, what a lot of good chatter here on this list!  However, neither this
list (nor this requestor) have heard a peep about changing a couple dozen
Amtrak route network=* tags so all have value Amtrak.  Too easy?  I might
simply ask forgiveness rather than permission or for feedback, though
consensus still doesn't feel it has fully emerged, so I'll hold off on this
minor change until at least somebody says something!

Rail USA does slowly and surely get better.  Nice to be here, everybody.

Remaining in listening mode,
SteveA


___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Help fight advertising

[Greg Morgan]

On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 3:44 PM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> * Contact the mapper responsible and politely ask them to fix it and/or
> stop adding advertising. In most cases, since these are throwaway
> accounts created by professional spammers, you won't receive a response
> but when in doubt, try it.
>


> * Use the business contact information provided to call/email them and
> ask which SEO firm they have paid to add data to OSM, and explain how
> this volunteer project is damaged by the actions of the SEO firm and
> that this also tarnishes the business reputation. Recommended if you
> like a little fight; some SEO operations have already been stopped from
> abusing OSM that way.
>
> * Should we have some MapRoulette task or OSMCha automatism or OSMI view
> to detect potential advertising?
>



> The data is in CSV format with the columns:
>
> date_last_edited,object,created_by,last_edited_by,name,description
>
>
> http://www.remote.org/frederik/tmp/us-seo.txt


 Frederik,

Thank you for the cleanup that you have done.  As of late my changesets
have focused on addressing and additional cleanup of Search Engine
Optimization, SEO, spam in Arizona.  In the case of SEO spam you might just
be wasting your time trying to contact them.*  Here are two examples of SEO
spam that I finally deleted.

https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4784217504/history
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Copper%20Canyon%20Law%
20LLC%C2%A0Tax%20Attorney

https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4792771037/history
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Simplified%20Celebration

The first set of links are actually in Arizona while the second set of
links are for a company in Washington State.  I tried contacting the owner
of the first set of links*.  I received no response.  I provide these ids
because it would be interesting if someone can look into the OSM database
and see if these SEO mappers used the same SEO spam email address company
i.e. seosp...@seospamcorp.com.  If so, then a black list filter at the OSM
signup level could be a great tool to fight the spam.  I also wonder if a
black list service such as https://www.spamhaus.org/organization/dnsblusage/
might help or if we can use the service.  I would think that OSM qualifies
at under 100,000 emails/accounts a day.  Anyhow, many months after my
email* and around 11 months in OSM, I finally deleted both of these spam
nodes.  It feels like my email went to the spammers and not the business
owner.  I also wonder about the user account.  Has the spammer still won if
the name is not change to user_x and the contact email removed?  I also
found it interesting that mapper Владимир%20К  thought it important to undo
some of Frederik's changes as can be seen in the history for these nodes.

I am not sure that a MapRoulette task would be of helpful but that may be
worth a try.  Your OSM Inspector address overlay[1] has been a great tool
for hunting down the SEO spammers and advertisement.

https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4911881645/history

Where your address checker helped on this address was that the house number
was in the general range of address numbers but Camelback Road is way south
of this location.  That address came up as a nice red shinny dot in a
residential area.  Mapillary sequences on Camelback Road would make it
easier to add the address at the correct location verses moving the
address.  Resolution delete.  A MapRoulette challenge for a mapper outside
my local area may take a large effort to correct the address verses my
quick determination. As an example,  Владимир%20К, from Russia could not
determine that these were bad addresses and not worth saving.  In another
set of changes[2], a mapper from Germany could not determine that 1 was the
wrong address number for the area.  We need additional tools with address
number ranges and zipcode boundaries to detect these issues.  Moreover, the
US states need to be treated like individual countries in Europe.  Pascal's
OSM tool does not help me at a state level when the whole US is treated as
one blob.

Several years ago I had two mappers add a bunch of addr:* tags in my
mapping area then disappear.  All those red streets in OSMI made for an
ineffective tool.  The red from the streets reduced the effectiveness of
detecting bad addresses/spam.  I have cleaned up most of these streets
now.   Now I can use OSMI to also detect street names that have been
changed to business names by SEO or other kinds of map spammers.  Of course
that only works if I have address coverage to match.  In this cause, all of
the address nodes would turn red.

The last set of links that I provide you is also number two in Frederiks'
Arizona list. I will soon be deleting this spam. Now people _please don't
click_ on the URL in the node if you do not like birthday suits. I believe
this was really was a yoga place at one time but now is into some other new
age stuff.  Yet this kind of spam is just a redirect to a birthday suite
social media site.
https://

Re: [Talk-us] Comparing Tiger 2017 dataset with OSM in a automatedway.

[Greg Morgan]

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 11:00 AM, OSM Volunteer stevea <
stevea...@softworkers.com> wrote:

> Thank you, Tod.  Yes, I MIGHT find a VERY SELECT SUBSET of these data
> SOMEWHAT useful, as minor amounts of them seem to be accurate and
> more-up-to-date enough to introduce into OSM.  But certainly not using any
> sort of automated method.  Essentially, every single datum would need to be
> human-reviewed, possibly corrected, likely conflated, and for a great many
> of them, on-the-ground verified.  I'd say "garbage" seems too strong, but
> "very noisy with a highly limited potential to add some minor value to our
> map, coupled with great effort to vet, improve and enter the data" seems
> about right.
>
> SteveA
> California
>
>
Yep! While not good for an import the data is useful for comparison.  I see
where I could pick up some road names and new subdivisions from Badita's
data. A more useful comparison would be an update to Alex Barth's "Better
Than OSM" tiles.  Does anyone on the list know of a friend of a friend at
MapBox?  Would you please ask them to update Alex's work?
https://api.tiles.mapbox.com/v4/lxbarth.647bc246/page.html?access_token=pk.eyJ1IjoibHhiYXJ0aCIsImEiOiJFVXdYcUlvIn0.bbaHTEWlnAwGgyVwJngMdQ#12/33.7449/-112.1031

Regards,
Greg
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Comparing Tiger 2017 dataset with OSM in a automatedway.

[Greg Morgan]

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 2:40 AM, Badita Florin 
wrote:
...

> Did not had time to look at each individual state, but i will share the
> insight for Arizona :
> Feel free to look at the other states.
> And please, if you want me to run this on any public dataset, just tell
> me, I will help you create a translation file, and we can compare any SHP
> with OSM, and get the results.
>
>
Uploaded on the google drive folder Arizona, the result size is 267 MB XML
>
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B7aOUf0DFRnLU3hUWFNu
> S05JS2c?usp=sharing
>
> There seems to be some new neighborhoods that were constructed/ are being
> constructed added to this TIGER 2017 release.
>

Badita,

Bless your little heart!  Finally, there are some real analysis without
saying imports are bad and they kill the community.  The problem that you
have found is that metro Phoenix is building again--going gang
busters. Phoenix alone just surpassed Philadelphia as the 5th largest city
in the US. Some of the examples you provided look like the subdivisions
that went bankrupt during the subprime rate recession.  Developers are
working these subdivisions again.  You can see a glimpse of the roof tiles
on this subdivision that collapsed during the subprime rate debacle but is
actively being built right now.
https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/oEdJEx6gjEBgOjtRtkjkHQ

It is not just roads where the growth and change is happening.  Iconic
buildings--as far as Phoenix goes--are being plowed under for apartment
buildings.
July 2016
https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/WDRNcgF6KECHwfsj-qeNBA
October 2017
https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/zZXUcxZJAT2UxrlQCyIvsQ
http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2016/08/03/new-central-avenue-macayos-open-phoenix-early-2017/88008706/

I would only bore you to death with more examples of both.

Regards,
Greg
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Redacting 75, 000 street names contributed by user chdr

[Greg Morgan]

On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 12:52 PM, Tod Fitch  wrote:

Tod,

Thank you for your help in Arizona--mostly metro Phoenix.  I think that we
need to ask MapBox to revise the 2017 Tiger layer.  There were short ways
without names in Tiger 2017 that both the Tiger 2014  and Tiger 2015 layers
have/had.  It was a mistake for them to remove 2015.  That is why you could
not find some of the names with the 2017 layer.

He! He!  You left me some great challenges.  I think those are best consume
in small changes.  Thanks also for the overpass query.

I think I got them all. The ones that had a name on the Tiger 2017 overlay
> at least. The ones that did not have a Tiger name (looks to be mostly
> service roads) I changed to “fixme=chdr_USA_AZ_name_fixup_required”
>
>
> Here is a search for those:
>
> /*
> This query looks for nodes, ways and relations
> with the given key/value combination.
> Choose your region and hit the Run button above!
> */
> [out:xml]/*fixed by auto repair*/[timeout:25];
> // gather results
> (
>   // query part for: “name=chdr_USA_AZ_name_fixup_required”
>   node["fixme"="chdr_USA_AZ_name_fixup_required"](31.259769987394286,-116.
> 56494140625001,37.309014074275915,-108.0615234374);
>   way["fixme"="chdr_USA_AZ_name_fixup_required"](31.259769987394286,-116.
> 56494140625001,37.309014074275915,-108.0615234374);
>   relation["fixme"="chdr_USA_AZ_name_fixup_required"](31.
> 259769987394286,-116.56494140625001,37.309014074275915,-108.
> 0615234374);
> );
> // print results
> out meta;/*fixed by auto repair*/
> >;
> out meta qt;/*fixed by auto repair*/
>
>
>
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Redacting 75, 000 street names contributed by user chdr

[Greg Morgan]

On Oct 10, 2017 8:13 AM, "Tod Fitch"  wrote:

I have started trying to clean up some of the redactions in Arizona,
starting with the town of Maricopa. As Ian pointed out, these were
“pre-redacted” and rather than deleting the road name, the name was changed
to chdr_USA_AZ_name_fixup_required.


I did not see that the redaction was finished. I will work on any of the
remaining names. The chdr changes were focused on various new subdivisions
at time of the changes.


The problem is there are some roads that do not have names on the Tiger
2017 overlay. At this time I have left those untouched.

My worry is that there does not seem to be a lot of local mappers working
in the area so it may be a while before the remaining
name=chdr_USA_AZ_name_fixup_required roads get fixed. In the meantime data
consumers will be giving confusing information to end users. I can see (or
mentally hear) lots of routing guidance with “turn right at churdr usa az
name fixup required”.

I am inclined to simply delete the name if Tiger 2017 has no name. That
will do two things: 1. Make the map and routing less wrong. And 2. Allow
the normal QA tools we have indicate an issue (residential road with no
name).

Thoughts?

Tod

> On Oct 9, 2017, at 12:21 PM, Ian McEwen 
wrote:
>
> AZ has none because of https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/51502902
> rather than an actual absence of things to fix from this (that changeset
> essentially pre-redacted the names, so they no longor appear in
> Frederick's list of redactions). I've fixed those I could find in the
> Tucson & Pima County areas, but there's still lots to be gone over in
> AZ.
>
> Just mentioning this so if anyone's doing anything like tasking manager
> work, they'll know they need to special-case AZ.
>
> On Mon, Oct 09, 2017 at 09:21:59AM -0700, Tod Fitch wrote:
>> FYI,
>>
>> No redactions in Oregon, Arizona or Utah. I’ve added Tiger 2017 names to
the ways in the list located in California and Nevada. Later today I’ll do
New Mexico and Colorado.
>>
>> I’ve got to restrain myself from correcting geometry, adding surface,
lanes, turn lanes, etc. while I do this. :)
>>
>> Tod
>>
>>> On Oct 9, 2017, at 9:01 AM, Tod Fitch  wrote:
>>>
>>> Looks like there are about 6600 redactions in the US. Did a quick sort
of the list by country and state and it looks like Texas has the most (by
eyeing the list rather than counting). Most states have a very manageable
number. There were about 42 in California and I was able to apply Tiger
2017 names to 38 of those. Most states will be that easy.
>>>
>>> All I did was take the list, extract out the ones for California, do a
edit to add "https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/“ in front of the way ID and
then do a “Load Location” in JOSM for each. Looked at them with the Tiger
2017 overlay imagery to see if there was a name I could apply. Took maybe
1/2 hour to do all of California.
>>>
>>> Not sure this is a big enough job to bother putting up a OSM task for
it. Just grab the way IDs in your state, and maybe in your neighboring
state(s), and do it.
>>>
>>> Texas and maybe New York will require more work, so maybe those could
be broken into tasks. But for the rest I think it would pretty much be “one
state is one task”.
>>>
 On Oct 8, 2017, at 3:28 AM, Nick Hocking 
wrote:

 Can someone put up an OSM task so that we can replace these names ,
from Tiger 2017?
 ___
 Talk-us mailing list
 Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Talk-us mailing list
>>> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-us mailing list
>> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us


___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] guidelines regarding roads access

[Greg Morgan]

On Sep 24, 2017 8:33 AM, "Greg Troxel"  wrote:


Adam Franco  writes:

> One additional note is that at least in my area, the TIGER import
> incorrectly added access=private to many driveways and privately
maintained
> residential roads. Upon surveying these I've found that they are signed
> "Private" or "PVT" on the street-name sign to indicate
> private-maintenance/ownership (don't complain to the town about a lack of
> snow-plowing/grading), but do not in reality have an access restriction.


https://www.mapillary.com/app/?focus=photo&pKey=oyEdoFPUg3yayTv1deHZUQ&lat=33.567826&lng=-112.016051&z=17

I initially marked a street like this as access=private.  Then I found out
that this definition of private is more like Adam's experience. However, I
did not experience the issue with the TIGER import. I am not sure that an
HOA is a good thing.  I stay away from them for a number of reasons
including the leftovers of the subprime rate debacle.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-investigations/2017/09/14/phoenix-area-homeowners-associations-foreclosing-record-number-homeowners/595816001/


For a "private way" (legal term in my state for what I think you refer
to as "privately maintained residential road"), I agree that there
shouldn't be access=private.

For a driveway to someone's house, access=private seems right, in that
it's generally at least impolite to use that road other than as
visitor/delivery/etc.

...

But, that tends to lead to pink blobs in rendering, and I'm not sure
that's the right thing, as service roads having the status "you should
use these only when dealing with the adjacent entities" seems to be the
default/normal case.  We should adjust rendering, not access, to make
this pleasing.


The rendering has been changed to a gray dashed center line.

Regards,
Greg
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Requesting to remove stoplines in San Jose

[Greg Morgan]

On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 6:39 PM, Vivek Bansal <3viv...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey, I noticed pfliers has added lots of unconnected ways w/
> `highway=stopline` all over San Jose. It’s really been cluttering up our
> workflows in iD, and now it’s triggering JOSM’s validator as we’re adding
> sidewalks. Can we remove them in one big mechanical edit? Even if the
> concept is good, they’d have to be remapped in order to be useful anyways.
> Maybe they should be a node along the centerline.  Or instead they should
> be a road_marking.
>
> This also affects Phoenix, Arizona.
>
> Here is a link to pfliers history:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/pflier/history#map=6/38.882/-117.411
>
> Here is pfliers proposal:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/stop_line
>
> -3vivekb
>
> I noticed the new tagging in Phoenix.  I sent the Keep Right maintainer a
request that excludes highway=stopline from "intersections without
junctions" checking.  I do not believe the sky is falling.  I don't see how
these stoplines would have to be remapped.  When we look at the data, all
the Phoenix stoplines are mapped by traffic lights.  I am not sure how
stoplines would impact your workflow.  Ignore the Josm validation
recommendations for these stoplines.  I haven't put a request into Josm
maintainers but it is certainly something that you can do.

The proposal has something to do with autonomous cars. The stoplines may
just be perfect for the Phoenix area.
http://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/tech/2017/06/23/arizona-getting-ahead-autonomous-vehicle-industry-stepping-aside-waymo-uber-intel-chevy-bolt/405436001/

https://www.keepright.at/report_map.php?zoom=15&lat=33.51322&lon=-112.06043&layers=B0T&ch=0%2C130%2C191%2C192%2C193%2C194%2C195%2C196%2C197%2C198&show_ign=0&show_tmpign=0
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Edits in Phoenix, Arizona

[Greg Morgan]

On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 1:49 AM, Horea Meleg 
wrote:

> Hi Greg,
>
> We are editing in Maricopa and Pinal counties area, where we have tiger
> and approved local data. Thanks for all input and advice. We already talked
> with Hans about highway tags when we had some concerns. We talked with some
> mappers in Phoenix about signpost and the tag destination:street, which we
> used before in other areas but in Phoenix it’s not used. Could you give us
> some pointers: why do you not use it? Could we?
>

http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/60547575
http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/756209453

Look at the history on these to objects.  Was name, ref, exit_to, or
destination the tag to use or now is it destination:street?  Do you put the
tags on the node or the way? In my case, freeway exit numbers and mileposts
are important.  I put in many of the exit numbers.  I found something
better to do that keep up with all the "shall we do it this way
discussions".  Go right ahead and make the changes.  Your changes will be a
model for other future exits or exits left unchanged.

Thanks,
Greg
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] guidelines regarding roads access

[Greg Morgan]

On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 10:39 PM, Ionut Radu - (p) 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
>
>
> While editing road geometry in Phoenix we found some situations that are
> arguable, considering the private districts/neighborhoods/trailer parks
> and other strata-style developments, with/without street names and
> with/without gates at the entrance:
>
>
It is very simple.  In my case, I have enough time to tiger fixup a set of
streets and then I have to dash for work or other errands.  I wouldn't read
too much into this.


>
> - streets are mapped as residential roads with unlimited access. (ex:
> 33.5412459, -112.2150893)
>
 Hans added the gates.  So split the road at the gate and add the access
tags.  All you are doing is building on another mappers work.

- streets are mapped as residential roads with limited access after the
> gate (access=no, access=private, access=destination) (ex: 33.5315072,
> -112.0206161;
>
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/5664037/history
After 17 versions on this way, I finally put in the access tags.  I was
performing another pass of the Tiger fixup in this neglected area and found
the gates.  This also means I could correctly determine where the access
tags should be added.  It is not like I can go in the gated subdivision and
survey it.  Hence the access tags were added.

I would chalk this up to various skill levels at of mappers at various
times in their mapper lives or what the mapper is interested in.  Please
add the gates if you see them and access tags were needed.  Moreover if you
look at the dual carriage ways around this way
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/499095961 you will see that these were
added three months ago.  Mappers have to have the interest in performing
this kind of work.  That's all.

Also note that the metro Phoenix area is a very large area.  We also have a
transient population.  Right about now the snowbirds from the north and the
sunbirds that live here and own property during the winter--ha ha ha--but
vacation elsewhere during the summer are showing up.  They have little
interest in mapping.

Regards,
Greg
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Edits in Phoenix, Arizona

[Greg Morgan]

On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 4:31 AM, Horea Meleg 
wrote:

> Hi everyone!
>
> This is Horea and I am part of the mapping team at Telenav.
>
> To make OpenStreetMap more navigable and accurate in guidance, our mapping
> team is planning to start editing in Phoenix.
>

Do you mean the City of Phoenix or the metro Phoenix area?  There is plenty
of work to do in both.  However, I'd like your team to stay awhile and work
on the metro area.  ;-)

In the next weeks we will focus on road geometry, road name, oneways,
> signpost, speed limit, lanes and turn lanes.
>
> This is where you come in! Beside the general OSM mapping guidelines (
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Main_Page, ht
> tp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features), do you have any local
> mapping guidelines for us? Also, we appreciate any hints regarding
> available local or government data that we might be able to us.
>
> We'd love any input and advice!
>
>
>  On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 3:15 PM, Martijn van Exel  wrote:

> turn restrictions, missing roads (if any), one-way roads, traffic signals,
> some carto features such as parks.
>

Hans Dekryger is a mapping force.  I think he maps all those features
except turn restrictions. Hans has done a great job of adding dual carriage
ways to metro Phoenix.  Most of the turn restriction and traffic flow
entries are false positives.  I see many no left turns suggestions where a
dual carriage way comes together. Only a few drivers make the u-turn.  It
would be incorrect to add those restrictions.


> As always we will respect local mappers’ work above everything.
>
Thank you for your concern.


> Sources will be Bing / DG, OpenStreetCam, Mapillary,
>
 https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/109740061
Bing is your best bet.  Digital Globe is not even competitive.
If you look at the new ASU Law building, you can see that Bing has the
building under construction. DG premium show the area as a green parking
lot. DG standard shows the footing being dug.  DG is great for rural areas
but not here.  Bing is actual airplane flyovers around 2014 .  The new ESRI
imagery is newer but it does not let you overzoom.  Bing will still give
you tiles to zoom 20.  ESRI has newer data to zoom 17 and then shows the
same DG standard for 18. Overzooming only provides white tiles.

ImproveOSM (GPS based detections) augmented with government data where
> possible (which is where Horea’s question came from).
>
>


> Where possible we will publish MapRoulette / Tasking Manager jobs for
> anyone to participate.
>
The Phoenix area was hit hard by the chdr changes.  Fredrick lists affected
streets as Arizona but there are only three small outliers: Yuma, a few
along Mexico, and Tucson.  The rest were sub-prime rate subdivisions that
chdr either added the geometry and name or just the name.  The tiger2015
layer is more than adequate to cover these names.  I have set all  name
tags to chdr_USA_AZ_name_fixup_required because the rest of the metro
Phoenix are pockets.  You can use any number of tools to search and repair
the name.  Other than this issue I cannot think of any potential
MapRoulette challenges.



> If you have any (other) specific insights to share, like locally specific
> mapping practices, things on the ground that are different / specific to
> the area, data you’ve worked with, let us know. Thanks!
>
 Remove all the tiger tags when you are done with a street.  Add surface
tags and lanes if you can. I use surface tag of dirt verses tracks.  I
started using the dirt surface tag when the town of Tonopah disappeared on
http://tripmaker.randmcnally.com/ . Tripmaker will let you route over dirt
but tracks do not display.

You really cannot use blue tiles like you would else where.  Most all of
our flood plains are recreation areas such as golf courses, and area mini
parks.  Most of the small neighborhood green looking mini-park areas are
dual use.  They are a catch basin during heavy rains but function as a
park.  Here is an example https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/YychJAU-Vwq_
3LVkTCiVHg . Although it is hard to see all the water and park features
because of the basis feature.


> Another way you can help is drive around and capture OSC / Mapillary in
> the area (duplicate coverage welcome) even though OSC coverage is already
> pretty good (mostly thanks to Greg).
>
>
I have not been able to keep up the OSC submissions.  They are just a save
subset of my Mapillary runs.  You will want to use Mapillary.  WSP is an
engineering firm out of Chicago.  They have/had a contract to so some work
around here.  They used Mapillary to get street imagery. cookry and wsp-us
are the same person.   In the wsp-us runs Ryan used two cameras: front and
back.  You'll have more than 2.1 million photos to work from in the the
metro Phoenix area and surrounds.

Regards,
Greg
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Open survey on participation biases in OSM

[Greg Morgan]

On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 3:45 AM, Zoe Gardner  wrote:

> Dear OSM talk subscriber
>
>
>
> I am a Research Fellow in the Nottingham Geospatial Institute at the
> University of Nottingham in the UK, interested in participation biases in
> geospatial crowdsourced projects such as OSM and other Volunteered
> Geographical Information (VGI) projects. My current research project is
> concerned with the way in which participation biases in OSM may potentially
> affect the usability of the data that is collected and subsequently what is
> available to location based service providers which use OSM as their
> primary geospatial database.
>
>
>
> The project is motivated by recent research that has found a strong male
> bias in OSM participation. This has led to assertions that various
> geospatial knowledge could be under represented or poorly recorded on the
> map.
>

Zoe,

I believe that you need to go back to the drawing board.  OSM is not about
gender, race, religion, or sexual orientation. OSM is about people with
leisure time that are willing to spend to add nodes to a map.  If I like to
add buidlings to the map, there is nothing about those nodes and one way
that compose the building that would discriminate or leave out information
based on gender, race, religion, or sexual orientation.

This sounds like one of those surveys designed to damage OSM.
"data that is collected and subsequently what is available to location
based service providers"
That statement sound like you are performing research for a vendor that
cannot compete with OSM.

Regards,
Greg
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Phoneix, Arizona open data

[Greg Morgan]

On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 2:17 AM, Horea Meleg 
wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Me and my Telenav colleagues, are planning to start editing in Phoenix,
> Arizona. We are thinking of adding some map features like road geometry,
> name, one way or turn restrictions.  We’ve made a research for local data,
> and we’ve found this open source data: https://www.phoenix.gov/opendata#
> . The specific datasets are: Street
> center line for City of Phoenix
> , 
> Street
> Name Labels
> , 
> Traffic
> Restrictions along Streets
> 
> and Traffic Restrictions at Intersections
> 
> .
>
> We are wondering if these datasets have already been used/vetted in the
> past?
>
> If someone knows something about it, please inform us.
>

I don't think that this data will buy you much.  It is just a street center
line without dual carriage information. I think is works better for land
development zoning that OSM data.  I know that the MapBox data team has
already come through and added to lane counts and turn restrictions along
major roads.  I believe other mappers have worked hard on OSM turn
restrictions too Paul Johnson appears to be prolific with the work.  Please
contribute how you can.  Your edits are welcome.

The name labels will not be of much use.  The tiger data was correct in all
the places that I have mapped. Ohh! Ahh! Look at the beautiful Tiger fixup
map.
http://product.itoworld.com/map/162?lon=-112.04146&lat=33.56395&zoom=11 I
am going back through now removing all the tiger tags and rechecking
geometries created with Yahoo. I know Hans has done a great job in many
areas with the Tiger fixup.  Dave Hansen, balrog-kun, iandees  I love you
guys for work you did that I did not have to do.  Tiger was the best import
ever!  balrog-kun's name expansion saved me so many hours of time.
iandees import of geonames saved many many hours of research.  These
automated changes allowed me to work on other issues.  I am an osmer that
thinks that the Tiger import was a good thing!

Adding missing speed limits would be a better effort than attempting to
sorting out the opendata site.  I looked at the site along time ago when it
was launched  but found these two confusing links.  I cannot tell if they
have just relinked the phoenix.gov website terms into the opendata terms.
Is it opendata or closed data?  Perhaps you'd want to send a note to them
to clear up the questionable terms.  The site appears to be more of a sales
pitch than anything with a real substantial opendata contribution.
https://www.phoenix.gov/opendata/terms
https://www.phoenix.gov/opendata/policy

Regards,
Greg
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Redacting 75, 000 street names contributed by user chdr

[Greg Morgan]

On Sun, Aug 27, 2017 at 11:51 AM, Mikel Maron  wrote:

> > we can find a good workflow for that. I wasn't expecting the community
> to start working on this pre-redaction but if people prefer that to
> fixing issues later...
>
> Absolutely, let's do this!
>
>
On Sun, Aug 27, 2017 at 10:55 AM, Martijn van Exel  > wrote:
>
> Happy to help. All we'd need for MapRoulette is a list of locations and a
> proper description of the work we'd expect people to do. Anyone can create
> the challenge but I'd be happy to do it.
> Martijn
>
>
>
 Change set # 51502902

Here's what I did and the plan:

* I selected out Arizona USA.
* I used the magic of regular expressions to change the way id in the file
Frederik provided to a josm remote control command.
* The remote control command allowed me to load all the data into one
file.  I changed the name tag to chdr_USA_AZ_name_fixup_required.  The new
name creates a great search target.
* I made no other changes before uploading the changeset.
* I would expect that the DWG would redact the potential name issues from
all the prior versions.
* Next a MapRoulette challenge can be constructed with the
chdr_USA_AZ_name_fixup_required search target.  The challenge will be
localized to Arizona because of the name change.
* The Tiger 2015 layer will be a good source to use name correction in the
challenge.  Others without the Tiger name source will not be so lucky.

The questions and observations:
* chdr is the last modifier of 2980 out of 5696 ways, 52%. These ways would
appear like the first and last introduction of the potential damage.
* The highest way version on one example way was 24.  Does this mean that
the redaction would have to be performed in all the 24 revisions?
* I came in at 1685 out of 5969 ways, 30%.  Even though I can rationalize
and observe that chdr's street name matches the Tiger 2015 layer, I cannot
prove or disprove this. I'd rather make a proactive resolution to the issue
than wait for additional edits on these ways.
* It took a long time for the name change to complete in JOSM once the last
remote control command was issued.

DWG you are up. Please redact the name issue in the prior versions of the
ways in Change set # 51502902.

Once the DWG is finished, it would be great if Martijn could assist me
develop a MapRoulette challenge.

Regards,
Greg
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Redacting 75, 000 street names contributed by user chdr

[Greg Morgan]

On Sun, Aug 27, 2017 at 12:01 PM, Nicolás Alvarez  wrote:

> I don't understand what people mean with 'verifying' objects. We're
> not trying to find factually-incorrect data. The data is legally
> tainted. It's questionable whether looking at the current names
> imported from GMaps, comparing to another source, seeing they match
> and marking them as "verified" will legally change anything.



> And it's
> impossible to know if people are really verifying anything or just
> blindly marking them as verified.
>
>
Nicolás is there any chance you can refrain from slimming the community
like that?



> I think the only clean way to solve this is to redact and then re-map
> from legal sources.
>

If you are in another country than the US and Canada, then you may not have
a second legal source and you would make this statement.  In my case, I
have had a series of tiger name layers work from over the years..  So what
Fredrick wants to do based on his list is to wipe out my work with his
purposed blind revert.  As an example, here is way
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/103141172 .  I cleaned up the geometry
two years ago.  I added access tags and what not.  I make it a habit of
removing all tiger tags when I am finished cleaning up and verifying names
with the tiger layer.  Way 103141172 is on Fredrick's list.  If he performs
is revert, then I am going to have to go back and add the name back that I
have already checked on.  Hence, I do not agree with either of your
statements.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Redacting 75, 000 street names contributed by user chdr

[Greg Morgan]

On Sun, Aug 27, 2017 at 10:55 AM, Martijn van Exel  wrote:

> Happy to help. All we'd need for MapRoulette is a list of locations and a
> proper description of the work we'd expect people to do. Anyone can create
> the challenge but I'd be happy to do it.
>
> Martijn
>

Martijn,

I'd would be great if you can break this down to an area.  For example, I
have a list of Arizona streets.  I'd prefer to work on this as an Arizona
challenge verses one big chdr challenge.

Please Advise,
Greg
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Contacting local mappers or posting a note to "mappers in area". How to. Etiquette. Horseshoe Bend, ID,

[Greg Morgan]

On Aug 25, 2017 10:39 PM, "Tod Fitch"  wrote:

Mozilla Location services and open cell ID share data. You can down load
the Mozilla database as a CSV file. That will have the lat/lon and
identification of every cell tower they know about.

You can also download it from open cell I'd but you need an api key for
them.


Todd that is real interesting. I also found this
https://www.mylnikov.org/archives/1059
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Contacting local mappers or posting a note to "mappers in area". How to. Etiquette. Horseshoe Bend, ID,

[Greg Morgan]

On Aug 25, 2017 5:36 PM, "Bryce Nesbitt"  wrote:

I know about map notes.

Are there other ways I could post a bulletin message mappers in a given
region might see and react to?

Here it is not directly an OSM mapping task, so a map note seems
inappropriate.
But it's a task a local mapper would be perfect for, and it's no big deal.
Is there such a mechanism?

   -Bryce


NB: In particular I'm hoping to find someone willing to verify if tower SID
4881 of a certain Verizon cellular tower is coming from *Packer Joe
Overlook* near *Horseshoe Bend, ID,* or if that tower ID is coming from
above *Sweet, ID*.


Keypad Mapper 3 collects cell tower information. It may be worth a look at
their database to see if someone drove by that area with app on.  ID has
some sparsely populated areas. Good luck on finding local mappers. It's
worth a try.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] TIGER fixup for Hurricane Harvey potential impact areas

[Greg Morgan]

On Aug 25, 2017 1:59 PM, "Brian May"  wrote:

Calling all TIGER fixup junkies. I've been poking around the coastal areas
of Texas where Hurricane Harvey is expected to make landfall and seeing a
lot of TIGER fixup needed. More and more websites depend on OSM so it would
be nice to provide more accurate and updated info than what is there now.
Maps and GIS are going to be heavily relied on especially after the storm.


I find it interesting that US is called on to save the world. Will there be
a HOT activating for Texas? Will we get any new imagery for the area? Are
local agencies so well prepared that there is no need to use OSM?
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] SEO Damage to OSM

[Greg Morgan]

On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 10:23 AM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 06/30/2017 06:21 PM, Clifford Snow wrote:
> > Edits, from what appears to be a search engine optimization company
> > (SEO), have damaged a number of ways in the US.
>
> Was it not possible to determine the user accounts responsible and then
> have DWG revert all their contributions? Or did these accounts also
> contribute good data?
>


Back in April I did send an email to DWG. I also included the response with
the DWG name redacted[1].  Here's part of the problem.  I have identified
an account that is a spam account.  There is a pattern to these spam
edits.  If I do tell you that only bad things come from a single account
and I am not engaging in an edit war and if I tell you the way that was
altered was malicious, then to leave these spam accounts around, let's them
still win.  They have their account with the same data as in the tags.

Am 01.07.2017 um 08:33 schrieb Simon Poole:

...given that we have a known US based SEO company that has created
(literally) 1000s of such accounts (but with slightly less spammy edits),
and "we" haven't taken any action, why should we in this case?

How do you know this is all coming from a US based Simon?  How does
targeting US locations make it an US based company?  If it the same
occurred in Europe, then I am sure you would have more care and concern
than you are showing here.  Dude I often cringe when I reas what you write
in email.

The ChanlerAir is the more pernicious version of the problem. This pattern
changes a real OSM feature such as a road. OSM Change Set Analyser may be
useful here because they changed the street name.

In the second version of the problem[2], the change is subtle but uses some
of the same principles. LOL, I included the email that I sent to the Tax
firm.  You can email the OSM account and any of the firms involved but you
will not get a response.

Bayesian spam filters have been used for years to work on spam issues.
These spam changes do not need that complexity to detect.
 1.) The OSM account name has something to do with the change: Copper
Canyon Law LLC Tax Attorney
 2.) I cannot confirm this but I am guessing that the account name is the
same or similar to the email address used to setup the OSM account.
 3.) There is only one edit.
 4.) There may be a gravitar on the OSM account.  Think about it.  How many
newbies have a gravitar and make one edit?
 5.) Most of the time, The OSM account profile page, the change set text
and description tag all have the same business oriented marketing text.
The changeset text and the description tag look the same in the cases that
I have observed.
 6.) If there is a name tag, then it may be the same as the OSM user
account.  This is where the pernicious version of these changes can be
detected because the street name is changed.
 7.) The addr:.* tags are abbreviated.
 8.) The addr:state may not be the in the same location as where the edit
was made i.e. the location is AZ but addr:state is MD, WA, CA.  The rub
here is that most of the change set tools treat all of the US as one area
verses the need for multiple areas.  If I see a newbie make a change via
Pascal's tool,  I cannot tell if a new change in MD is correct or not
because I live thousand of miles away.
 9.) The actual change will have a full email address.  I have not seen
many newbies master that many tags on their first change.
10.) There will be a phone number.
11.) As stated already, there will be a description tag.  In my case, I use
description tags on relations but not in all cases.  The description tag
may be one of the key markers for this kind-of spam edit.
12.) There will be an email address.
13.) There may be a fax number.
14.) There will be a website.
15.) In the pattern of nodes that I present, I show that open areas and
strange locations are involved.  LOL we do a lot with our washes in Arizona
because we can put a golf course where the water runs infrequently.  We
will not put an Asian eatery nor a tax law firm by a flood control feature.



> Was it not possible to determine the user accounts responsible and then
> have DWG revert all their contributions? Or did these accounts also
> contribute good data?
>

This is where I think that the DWG needs an oversight board. I've seen
where the DWG will rollback good edits like the recent wikidata rollback
without community input.  I've had to cleanup these crappy reversions. I've
seen the DWG go after real newbies because they are exited and want to make
a difference but make a few mistakes. However, when there is a clear
pattern, the attitude is that the DWG all will not lift a hand.  That's the
perception that I have of the DWG.

By the way, Fred, I am not asking you to delete these nodes.  I have been
saving the examples for other mappers and perhaps a tool like OSM CA can
make a go of detecting these malicious edits.

Regards,
Greg


http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4782271246#map=19/33.60365/-112.11840
ht

Re: [Talk-us] United States Bicycle Route 41 awaits OSM entry!

[Greg Morgan]

On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 3:20 PM, OSM Volunteer stevea <
stevea...@softworkers.com> wrote:

> A brief reminder to any Minnesota (or Upper Midwest) mappers who may be
> inspired to enter some rewarding OSM data:  United States Bicycle Route
> (USBR) 41 is a new national-level bicycle route from Minneapolis to Grand
> Portage and the Canadian border, largely along Lake Superior.  Your
> reward?  You'll get to see USBR 41 "blossom" on OpenCycleMap (Cycle Map
> layer) as a solid red line with "41" badges!
>
> The route is over 300 miles, a relation is now "seeded" at its north and
> south termini.  To enter this route, please see our wiki:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_U.S._Bicycle_Route_System
> and scroll down to USBR 41, clicking on a link to find official AASHTO
> route data, which OSM has explicit permission to enter.  Whether you enter
> a single mile or all 300+, this is the final USBR before the next round at
> AASHTO.  Thank you!
>

If you see future requests from Steve about the USBR routes, then you might
want to accept one of these as a challenge.  I took on USBR 41 since no one
volunteered. Unlike USBR 90 in Arizona, I cannot run out and check the
route.  I have listed several issues that remain and a discussion with
Steve. Some are new paths that opened in 2017. Since it is summer time I am
wondering if any one can head up to parts of the route in Minnesota were
the issues are located and run some sort of survey: GPS, Mapillary,
OpenStreetCam, or what not.  Feel free to work on the issues.

Regards,
Greg

This link is also in the route relation.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/idtfhretq0urelu/AADNm6RwNePgBHKkKZphkYMja?dl=0

 > Missing area.
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6708256#map=16/45.
1557/-92.9925&layers=C

Huh, I really don't know what to do here!  I've had it happen where the
state (like the Department of Natural Resources or State Parks) quickly put
in some paved cycleway "in the middle of nowhere" and stitched it in with
the DOT so it got into the route, but Bing is still a long way from
catching up.  Sometimes it can be "guessed" (I've only done that once,
where it was clearly going to be a straight line) but I usually leave in a
gap, as you did here.  We do our best with what we have, though sometimes
despite our honest efforts, it just doesn't add up to 100%.

> There is a new path that I cannot see.
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6708256#map=18/45.
51214/-92.97881&layers=C

Yup, sometimes a route's data is newer than existing OSM, Bing
aerial/satellite or other data.

> Gap
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6708256#map=14/46.
7875/-92.0941&layers=C

Ditto.

> The ASHTO turn by turn is different than the route board that you
provided in the relation.
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6708256#map=15/46.
7414/-92.1520&layers=C
> https://www.dot.state.mn.us/bike/usbr41/docs/route-board.pdf

Very odd:  I couldn't connect to that host!  It just hung like their 'net
is down.  I'll try this later.

> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6708256#map=12/47.
2008/-91.3462&layers=C

I don't think there is a better method to complete this as you did by
leaving the Gitchi-Gami State Trail in place.  I mean, there are two major
trail crossings (of highway MN 61) in Gooseberry Falls State Park where
Superior Hiking Trail crosses, (and another trail perhaps 50 m south):
which is a better place for USBR 41 to "cross and connect" to Gitchi-Gami?
I don't know.  Again, I think you've "done your best" and nobody can ask
for more than that!

> There is a path described in the turn by turn that I cannot see.
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6708256#map=15/47.
9562/-89.6905&layers=C

It may be that a new road/cycleway/path that is not now in OSM needs to be
added.  As neither of us knows that, we can't add it, so we're stuck with
"as best as you might do," once again.

Many and huge thanks for all of your clearly dedication and work on this!
How "done" might we call this?  99%  99.5%?  That seems about right without
the Gitchi Gami but if you exclude that maybe 97% or 98%.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Talk-us Digest, Vol 113, Issue 10

[Greg Morgan]

On Apr 6, 2017 12:25 PM, "Mark Bradley"  wrote:

> Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2017 15:56:02 -0700
> From: Charlotte Wolter 
> To: Bill Ricker ,Talk-US@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Response from TIGER about "driveways


Somewhat in a similar vein, as a native American English speaker, I have
wondered if it would be desirable for the editors to contain a feature that
would pop up a suggestion or warning, while tagging with an American
English word or phrase, which would specify the British English
equivalent.  Or maybe there's a wiki page that lists some common
equivalents?  Even more basic, is it stated anywhere in the wiki that
British English terms are to be used?  I know that's the policy, but I


All that I have seen are notes and warnings in various pages such as kerb.
I think JOSM covers this issue with preset warnings, "tag is not in
presets."

*Note:* As a policy OSM uses British English
 terms for most tags in
preference to North American English
. In this case kerb
rather than curb.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:kerb
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Osmar and Ways

[Greg Morgan]

On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 5:35 AM, Erik MARONEY, IEA 
wrote:

> To whom it may concern,
>
>
>
> My name is Erik Maroney and I work for the International Energy Agency
> (IEA).  We are interested in using Open Street Map (OSM) for our road
> infrastructure projections.  We have had a couple of issues so far that we
> are confused about.
>
>
>
> 1)   Using R, we set the source to API and downloaded osm.  It seems
> as if some of the roads mapped on the OSM website aren’t being caught by
> osmar (the R package), which interfaces with osmosis (the command line
> tool). Could this perhaps be an issue with the bounding box, or is there
> some other reason why not all the roads are being captured? Any assistance
> with this issue would be very helpful!
>
> 2)  Using the Geofabrik database, it seems all the highways are not
> fully captured, is this just due to missing data?  Because when we go to
> the OSM website, we see plenty of other roads.  This is also true when we
> use the bounding box API method.
>
>
>
> Ultimately, the mismatch between the roads (especially highways and
> non-urban roads) mapped directly on OSM versus those we are able to
> download with R is our point of concern. Specifically we would like to come
> up with an automated way to capture all roads that service motorized
> vehicles within certain countries.
>
>
>
>
> The QuadTiles[1] may provide a visual for your potential bounding box
issue.  The area to look at is the intersection of a line and a tile[2].
Depending on your bounding box, you could miss a road if the nodes are in
other areas but the road still runs through your bounding box.  You may
have to use a more detailed configuration for your work.[3]

[1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/QuadTiles
[2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/QuadTiles#Indexing_tile_intersections
[3] https://switch2osm.org/
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Sabotage or a really bad bot?

[Greg Morgan]

On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 3:56 PM, Charlotte Wolter 
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Looks like, given Paul's information, that I just have to go in and
> correct as many as I can.
> This is an occasional issue with TIGER data. Somehow, when an
> address is located at the end of a driveway, especially long driveways,
> the driveway is given the street name. It may be a thing with TIGER
> software. Having worked on the Census, I know they create streets by
> marking a GPS point for every address. So, somehow the processing of
> the information they get, driveways become streets.
> I'll keep working on it.
>

I think that you are doing the wrong thing here.  The data came from the
Virgina to Census as is.  It is not like the Census made a mistake here.
That's how the jurisdiction maps their area.  To remove the street names or
the driveways is wrong for the area.  I make my statements based on the
prior version.  Dave Hansen brought those driveways as the were.  The
bot-mode expanded a the names and removed moved a few Tiger tags.  You'll
have remove the names from a larger portion than just Rustburg. I don't
think that you are being respectful of the local customs by imposing your
jurisdictions customs on their area.

Regards,
Greg Morgan
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] An actual mini roundabout!

[Greg Morgan]

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 5:36 PM, Rihards  wrote:

> On 2016.12.09. 00:44, Elliott Plack wrote:
> > You mean these things aren't?pasted1
>
> no. here the road is physically making a circle, and you cannot cross
> the middle section - it should be mapped as a separate way, not a single
> node.
>

A long time ago with Potlatch 1, I would not have been able to make these
separate ways.  Thinking back to those days, I like it when knew mappers
use the mini_roundabout to mark the area shown by Elliot.  When I get a
chance, I expand these nodes to a separate way.  I make sure that I keep
the node as apart of the new separate way for history's sake.   I do the
same for mappers that mark a swimming pool with one node.  It gives me a
chance to build on other mapper's work in a positive way.

Regards,
Greg
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Tagging karaoke bars?

[Greg Morgan]

On Fri, Nov 25, 2016 at 12:00 PM, Andrew Wiseman  wrote:

> Anybody know the best practice to tag it? I was thinking just tagging as a
> bar (or restaurant, or whatever) then adding karaoke=yes , which seems to
> be somewhat common on Taginfo, 166 uses.
>
I'd favor your bar; karaoke=yes idea.  I would look for the bar by name
before the karaoke feature. You'd think that karaoke would have died by
now. But all you have to do is mix in being shnokered with any activity and
it would be the best night of your life.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Talk-us Digest, Vol 108, Issue 18

[Greg Morgan]

On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 10:12 AM, Valerie Anderson <
vale...@andersongeospatial.com> wrote:

> Hello talk-us!
>
>
> This is the area in question: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#
> map=13/28.2929/-81.2331
>
> I'm wondering why this building that I input into OSM:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/405322404 thinks that it's in New Eden (
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/
> node/154079502) and not Narcoossee (http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/
> 154104172). New Eden and Narcoossee are two nearby hamlets
> (unincorporated cities). The mailing address of the building is in Saint
> Cloud, the closest incorporated city to the building that's in the same
> county. I entered the tag addr:hamlet=Narcoossee yet when you search for
> the address in the search bar it says Building 2886, Absher Road, New Eden,
> Osceola County, Florida (http://www.openstreetmap.org/
> search?query=2886%20absher%20rd#map=20/28.33281/-81.19943&layers=H).
>
> Why?
>
> Valerie,

You did everything correctly as far as OSM data entry goes.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/405322404
You are seeing the "value added" features of the OpenStreetMap Nominatim
service.  The service uses additional GIS boundaries besides OSM data for
the search results.  Hence, "Building 2886, Absher Road, New Eden, Osceola
County, Florida, 34771-9208, United States of America".

Regards,
Greg
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] MassGIS Road Import - Lanes

[Greg Morgan]

On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 2:30 AM, Greg Morgan  wrote:

> I don't live there but Mapillary user marc has nice coverage for some of
> the roads in question[1].  I am _guessing_ that a formula was developed
> based on the width value that Massgis had in their data. Looking at
> Mapillary while in JOSM, it almost looks like there is a one off error or a
> condition in one area of Massachusetts did not apply to another area of
> Massachusetts.  Again these are just guesses!  If you look at Massachusetts
> Avenue via JOSM/Mapillary, the street looks like lanes = 2 except for a
> turning lane here and there.
>
>
Oh! Oh!  I forgot to add, thank you for the mappers that imported Massgis.
  I'd rather have a usable map with street names and actual streets than a
map of perfect emptiness.  We has a wonderful useful map verses areas full
of "here be dragons".[2]



> Massachusetts Avenue
> width = 18.9; lanes = 3
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/8615119
>
> Hancock Street
> width = 12.2; lanes = 2
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/8615674
>
> width = 7.6; lanes = 1
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/8614912
>
> [1] https://www.mapillary.com/app/user/marc?lat=42.
> 382047952522356&lng=-71.18021987120689&z=12.90517848549394&focus=map&pKey=
> L9nOys_VqYuhOjcZ0Z9I9A
>
> [2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Here_be_dragons




> On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 11:27 AM, Spencer Gardner <
> spencergard...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Is anyone on here familiar with the process that was used to upload
>> MassGIS road data for the state of Massachusetts? I'm noticing a lot of
>> incorrect lane information on one-way residential streets and wondering if
>> the bulk import process could be the cause. I'd love to hear if anyone else
>> has come across this.
>>
>> For reference, see http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/8615602
>>
>> I haven't scoured the rest of the state, but Cambridge is riddled with
>> one-way residential streets that all have lanes=2 when there's clearly only
>> a single travel lane.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-us mailing list
>> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>>
>>
>
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] MassGIS Road Import - Lanes

[Greg Morgan]

I don't live there but Mapillary user marc has nice coverage for some of
the roads in question[1].  I am _guessing_ that a formula was developed
based on the width value that Massgis had in their data. Looking at
Mapillary while in JOSM, it almost looks like there is a one off error or a
condition in one area of Massachusetts did not apply to another area of
Massachusetts.  Again these are just guesses!  If you look at Massachusetts
Avenue via JOSM/Mapillary, the street looks like lanes = 2 except for a
turning lane here and there.

Massachusetts Avenue
width = 18.9; lanes = 3
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/8615119

Hancock Street
width = 12.2; lanes = 2
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/8615674

width = 7.6; lanes = 1
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/8614912


[1]
https://www.mapillary.com/app/user/marc?lat=42.382047952522356&lng=-71.18021987120689&z=12.90517848549394&focus=map&pKey=L9nOys_VqYuhOjcZ0Z9I9A

On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 11:27 AM, Spencer Gardner 
wrote:

> Is anyone on here familiar with the process that was used to upload
> MassGIS road data for the state of Massachusetts? I'm noticing a lot of
> incorrect lane information on one-way residential streets and wondering if
> the bulk import process could be the cause. I'd love to hear if anyone else
> has come across this.
>
> For reference, see http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/8615602
>
> I haven't scoured the rest of the state, but Cambridge is riddled with
> one-way residential streets that all have lanes=2 when there's clearly only
> a single travel lane.
>
> Thanks
>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
>
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Mappers in Idaho!

[Greg Morgan]

On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 11:49 AM, OSM Volunteer stevea <
stevea...@softworkers.com> wrote:

> I wanted to chime in my great enthusiasm for Greg Morgan helping or
> leading a good, chunky data effort in OSM like this.  Greg took on the USBR
> 90 effort in Arizona, hundreds and hundreds of miles of bicycle route, now
> very well entered in OSM and AASHTO-approved.  It took him weeks, but it
> would take anybody weeks or months, and he did a fantastic job.
>
> Greg was like a co-pilot, taking his responsibilities very seriously,
> using Mapillary to super effect, asking excellent questions, taking the
> small amount of direction required very well and just being all-around a
> top-notch communicator and team member.  If you have any interest in this
> Idaho project, notice that below, Greg offers to lead the effort!  So,
> listen up and throw your shoulder in with him and watch wonderful things
> happen in OSM with Greg at the helm.  Collaborating with him is like an
> enjoyable adventure!
>
> Regards,
> SteveA
> California
>
>
Steve,

Thanks for the kind words.  August was consumed with other activities than
OSM. At Elliot Plack's prompting a github repo was established.[1]  There
are a number of data questions that have come up.  Just like the USBR 90
project in Arizona where I established a relationship with the state
bicycle coordinator, I am using a similar approach with this effort. Teton
Idaho has been thankful for a few questions that I have brought up.  I sent
off additional questions this morning.  In addition, the repo has
educational qualities to it.  I believe that will be far more important
than just shoving the data into OSM.

Regards,
Greg


[1] https://github.com/osmlab/teton-idaho
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Deleting / Closing / Renaming all places in a chain

[Greg Morgan]

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 2:36 PM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 09/06/2016 11:01 PM, Elliott Plack wrote:
> > Should we launch an automated edit, or some kind of batch process on OSM
> > to clear the database `name=ITT Tech` (or similar) worldwide?
>

For one I had to go looking for the story.
http://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/us-world-news/202562451-story
The for-profit college chain ITT Technical Institute is shutting down all
130 of its U.S. campuses, saying Tuesday it can't survive recent sanctions
by the U.S. Department of Education...


>
> This is a discussion that has happened in the past when Domino's Pizza
> has rebranded, or when the "Schlecker" drug store chain closed in Germany.
>
> I think automated edits are not a good solution mainly for two reasons:
>
> 1. In many cases, the world doesn't change instantly at the behest of
> some guy in marketing or legal. Individual locations might retain their
> signage for various reasons and we map what's on the ground,
>

Not around here.  They pop out the plastic and replace it with the new
company's name.  If it takes awhile for a new company to replace the old
company, then they flip the plastic over to save costs.  This isn't like
the days when bespoke signs were created for every business.
http://mapillary.com/map/im/LCodN7YJMEPKKlRnf2eLxw


>
> 2. If a chain is renamed or closed country-wide, and this change is not
> reflected on OSM in one area, then this can be a valuable sign for lack
> of mapper attention. A sign that has the best user interface of all:
> Because for any map user, dealing with an outdated map is normal, and
> the way you identify just *how* outdated something is is exactly by
> looking at such things: "Ah, this map seems to be from a time then
> Domino's was still called Domino's Pizza!" - Leaving these valuable
> markers of outdated-ness in place tells the map user that this area
> hasn't been touched for a while and that the other POIs in the vicinity
> are likely also a bit aged. When a local mapper touches up the area they
> will likely also update other things than just the closed-down shop, and
> then the map will be current again. Automatically editing away something
> country-wide hides the fact that the map lacks attention in an area.


Frederik you are thinking about this from a dense mapper perspective.
Germany has 89 million people in the same are as Montana that only has one
million people.  You are talking about one way to map if you have that
kind-of population that you can create a large mapper population from.  I
already know much of my area needs updating.  The problem is that I cannot
get to it and the transient nature of the area doesn't mean that I can go
out and build an OSM community here.  Automated edits like this by another
mapper would be a great addition to the work I already do in an area.  As
another perspective, I typically don't put in POIs like this unless I visit
them.  My area was one of the ground zeros for the sub-prime rate debacle.
I'll put in an address on a building before I will put in a POI.  Business
just don't stay around like they used to. I laugh snort when I read that
wiki page about armchair mapping.  I am in the top 50 worldwide Mapillary
submissions.  You think I can go out there and survey every node before I
put it in OSM. That's jsut not going to happen. You think that I even know
about changes like the ITT story.
https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=33.263809986326706&lng=-111.81125590160123&z=8.272711628984965
 Woot! Woot!

Elliot, I'd say go for the change.  You are only going to __potentially__
remove 130 names from OSM objects.  Better yet, rename the name to a note
tag, with an explanation that the place was shutdown because of sanctions.

Regards,
Greg
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Freeway exit tagging

[Greg Morgan]

> mapping the road markings seems extremely strange - what if they are very
> faded, when do we map them ? is there a threshold of % of the paint left ?
> what is there are no road markings but there are signs ?

I encouraged MapBox to add some of their workflow information to the
wiki page.[1] The MapBox team will be the first to tell you that they
may not get things right.  However, I'd rather follow their lead right
now because they are making an effort to improve navigation.

I don't see how the questions help with the discussion.  I believe
that you are asking questions for something that does not exist.
1.The sun beats down on asphalt.  That's why I mark a road as
surface=asphalt and not surface=paved.  Asphalt handles so much
differently than concrete.  Up north water seeps into the cracks and
freezes.  This process generates frost heaves, where potholes form in
the road.  Down here in the land of the sun, the cracks are filled
with tar until the point of no return sets in just like frost
heaves.[2] The street feels like you are driving on cobble stones.
2.A pavement profiler comes in and removes the asphalt near the
sidewalk so there is less of a bump.  At this point, the picture shows
that the new asphalt was laid down.  Note the appropriate safety
signs.[3]
3.Days later there's a new glassy smooth road with new lane lines.[4]
I don't even bother adding construction tags when a road is being
resurfaced.  It is over and done too quickly to bother with.

> do we remove those tags during the winter in some regions ?
The tags stay the same in both good and bad conditions.  You have
drifted into hyperbole at this point. In the snow filled north and the
sunny south, these are still usable roads.  It would be useful to know
that there are three lanes on a snow packed street when only one is
drive-able.  The lane count and turn lanes are also useful knowledge
when the freeway is flooded and you are looking for an alternate
because the street ahead has only two lanes functional piled high with
freeway traffic.[5][6]

I would rather attempt to add the information for routing rather than
have no data.  NINO is far worse than the alleged GIGO.  The community
needs to let mappers attempt to understand the problem and improve
upon the knowledge or tagging.  My eyes glazed over when I looked at
the wiki page. I found sanity to the MapBox workflow.[1]

[1] 
https://github.com/mapbox/mapping/wiki/Mapping-guide-for-turn-lanes-from-imagery
[2] http://mapillary.com/map/im/AwRbJa0dDr_RSnnjteTTFA
[3] http://mapillary.com/map/im/i40PBdYRIMs7vHttf_SiZg
[4] http://mapillary.com/map/im/ZUvJ4et2qVGLC8JJDl43CQ
[5] http://mapillary.com/map/im/AbmqIXz9Wi0EQMoLLiSLyg
[6] http://mapillary.com/map/im/QHY4gXilNHH2yyp9PEInlA

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Mappers in Idaho!

[Greg Morgan]

On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 11:11 AM, Martijn van Exel
 wrote:
> To add to the confusion created by me: someone pointed out that there is in
> fact a Teton County in both Idaho and Wyoming. The person I have been in
> touch with is from the Teton Co. in Idaho. So no Jackson Hole or Grand Teton
> NP there, but the eclipse still passes and you have almost just as awesome a
> view of the Tetons from the west..At a fraction of the cost :)
>
> But...Anyone want to map? Look at all this stuff that's not in OSM yet :)

Ha! Ha!  I looked at the data last night because I drove through the
area on I-15 in early February...well it was near by Teton Idaho.
Then in May of this year I drove through Wyoming...well it was near by
Teton Wyoming.  I am familiar with both areas.  I left a Mapillary
trail in both cases. There are only 11K addresses in the dbf file.  I
don't know how many foot prints are in the data, yet.  What I thought
about is that the US community could use the data as an example of how
to process the data for an import.  There are a number of questions in
the data and a template can be developed with a project like this. Oh!
 I won't be standing in line.  I will would be happy to lead the
effort.  I wanted to make sure that no one else had called dibs yet.
I was thinking that GIS school projects or, say, maptime kind-of
groups might want to join in as part of a tasking effort. The tasks
can be made small enough that they won't overwhelm a new mapper or
won't require a large time expenditure for an experienced mapper.

Before anyone pipes up about damage to a local community because of an
import, there's none.  On said I-15 trip, I stopped in Beaver Utah for
the night.[1]  In one feel swoop of a change set several days later, I
got to stand on the shoulders of giants: I modified nodes touched by
Dave Hansen, Balrug-kun, and NE2.  The area had not been worked since
the early days of the US project.  The local Beaver paper said that
the community was more worried about Boy Scout badges, a fire that
ruined a home, and the like. The great open places[2] like Top Of The
World [3] are more important than a mapathon.

Regards,
Greg

[1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/38.25104/-112.64784
[2] 
https://www.mapillary.com/app/user/drkludge?lat=44.9747045&lng=-109.4556432&z=17&pKey=TkS55trFermdh6Dx2sf5Jg&focus=photo&menu=true
[3] 
https://www.mapillary.com/app/user/drkludge?lat=44.9427626001&lng=-109.5602966&z=17&pKey=cY_TJx1nQONQeF32AxXRYw&focus=photo&menu=true

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] Proposing import of sidewalk data Seattle, WA, USA

[Greg Morgan]

On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 5:04 AM, Marc Gemis  wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 12:40 AM, Greg Morgan  wrote:
>> look at the recent turn lane work that MapBox is performing. They
>> have done a wonderful job of finding issues and developing use cases
>> for the rest of the community.  Far worse than the alleged GIGO of
>> this import is the NINO.  Without out MapBox's activity we would not
>> have a well developed definition of turn lanes.  Without sideway data
>> mapped and worked on, we'll get no where with these kinds-of
>> discussions.  I look forward to see what the Washington community will
>> find.  I am still working out details of my sidewalk edits.  I'd like
>> to build on the Washington data that will be developed.
>> https://github.com/mapbox/mapping/wiki/Mapping-guide-for-turn-lanes-from-imagery
>> https://github.com/mapbox/mapping/wiki/QA-for-turn-lane-data
>
> Huh ? The German community had turn:lane mapping as a week project
> (don't take  that too literally) back in November 2014. Thousands of
> turn lanes have been added in the months after the idea was launched
> in "DACH" (Germany, Switserland & Austria). I had been mapping
> hundreds of them in Belgium since spring 2014, all based on the JOSM
> style developed by Martin Vonwald.
> Please do not make it sound like Mapbox pushed turn:lane mapping
> forward. Maybe this is true for the US, but not for Western Europe.
> OsmAnd has turn lane navigation since the summer of 2015.

In 2014 turn:lane mapping was not on my radar.  I have not used
OsmAnd. I had/have no clue of your activity until now.  In the last
six years I have often turned to Western Europe for examples but
turn:lane mapping has not been one of them. What MapBox has pushed
forward is excellent documentation and published it in such a way that
the documentation was clear and drew my interest.  Moreover, what
really caught my eye is how the Portland community responded to a
mistake during the mapping process.  The Portland community did not
call in the DWC to break both of the mapper's knee caps with a
baseball bat.  The issue was repaired and the community moved forward.

Regards,
Greg

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] Proposing import of sidewalk data Seattle, WA, USA

[Greg Morgan]

> Again this seems to be is the "I'm waiting for someone else to do something"
> line.  If you want a map rendering that shows stop signs, create one, like I

I am not standing in any line.  If I find an issue that I don't think
has been addressed or the original author did not understand is an
issue, then I file a bug report to the best my abilities.  That
doesn't mean I have to pick up the language and supply the patch.  The
way that open source works is that you don't always have to be the
coder.  Besides I would put up Butt ugly tiles that only a mother
would dare hang on her fridge and be proud of.  Then again, Tiles At
Home was Butt ugly and effective for mappers to see there changes.
https://github.com/openstreetview/josm-plugin/issues/2
https://github.com/openstreetview/uploader/issues/5

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] Proposing import of sidewalk data Seattle, WA, USA

[Greg Morgan]

On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 6:01 AM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:
> Meg,
>
>sidewalk tagging in OSM is a complex issue. The fact that sidewalks
> are not tagged as individual geometries is not purely a shortcoming,  it
> is a compromise that keeps OSM data editable. Having individual
> geometries for every single sidewalk on the planet will not only
> massively increase the data volume but also require new and better tools
> for editing, e.g. moving the geometry of a street without having to move
> three parallel lines manually and so on.
>
> There have been several local imports of sidewalk data that were removed
> again because lack of prior discussion and/or because they were
> single-purpose imports that did not care about integration with the rest

I don't see how that is relevant here since Meg is engaging in a conversation.

> of OSM (for example: what should rendering engines do with sidewalks;

Again relevance:  I am still waiting for a stop sign to be rendered a
year after it was requested. If we wait until a stop sign gets all
artsie and fartsie, then it will never be rendered and it will never
be mapped or shall I say mappers will become uninterested without a
reward for their efforts.  We deny one stop light towns the pleasure
of seeing something happen on the map.  We need this kind of data
before the renders can even have some use cases to work from.
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/1683


> how do they integrate with normal footways; how is a sidewalk linked to
> the road along which it runs so that routing engines can say "follow
> sidewalk along XY road" instead of "follow unnamed footway"; how can
> routing and rendering use individual sidewalks and still gracefully fall
> back to another method where these are not defined, and so on).
>
> People are experimenting with different ways of mapping sidewalks.
> Under no circumstances should you perform an import that creates facts
> before your proposal for separate mapping of sidewalks has been
> discussed more widely.

I look at the recent turn lane work that MapBox is performing. They
have done a wonderful job of finding issues and developing use cases
for the rest of the community.  Far worse than the alleged GIGO of
this import is the NINO.  Without out MapBox's activity we would not
have a well developed definition of turn lanes.  Without sideway data
mapped and worked on, we'll get no where with these kinds-of
discussions.  I look forward to see what the Washington community will
find.  I am still working out details of my sidewalk edits.  I'd like
to build on the Washington data that will be developed.
https://github.com/mapbox/mapping/wiki/Mapping-guide-for-turn-lanes-from-imagery
https://github.com/mapbox/mapping/wiki/QA-for-turn-lane-data

Thank you Meg.

Regards,
Greg

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Restoring bus routes in Portland

[Greg Morgan]

On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 9:24 AM, Peter Dobratz  wrote:
> Luckily, I saved a link to all of these bus routes on a wiki page as it's
> impossible to download a relation with zero members (unless you happen to
> know the ID):
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Portland,_Oregon/Transit_Route_Relations

Please let me know if you need additional help with the relationships.
It is unclear to me if this issue has been resolved or not.

You have done the hard work.  You have a handy list of relations.
I've been thinking of creating such lists for other highways and what
not.
If you don't want to hack and whack on an xml file, then you can also
do something like this.
1. ) Select the relation number that you are interested in and copy it
from your wiki page, control c.
 The only downside to your wiki page is that you used a name and
did not directly expose the relation number.
2..) In Josm menu bar>File>Down object...
3.) The dialog will show with the relation number already filled in.
4.) Pick any of the check box options in the dialog. You will have to
experiment depending on what you are mapping at the time.
 a.) Since you need to work with different layers pick
the"Separate layer" check box.
 b.) Uncheck the other two check boxes:  "Download referrers
(parent relations)" and "Download relation members".
5.) Next click the Download Object button.
6.) Another layer can be used to download the current state with the
steps above.
 Inside the relation editor is a "Download incomplete members"
button.  Use this to download all the ways or nodes in a relationship.
 Of course this is great for working on extending and existing
relationship.   I don't know if it will help you repair these
relationships.
I thought that I'd throw this out there for others.

These are the rules that I use when I am extending a relationship.
1.) You have to be careful because you cannot delete. The way or way
nodes may be connected to other parts of the map.
2.) In some node moves, you will have to download more data before
moving nodes.  That way you see other ways attached to the nodes.
3.) Deleting nodes also requires more data.  You have to see the whole
context with additional downloads of data.

Regards,
Greg

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Tagging National Forests

[Greg Morgan]

On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 10:28 AM, OSM Volunteer stevea <
stevea...@softworkers.com> wrote:

> Bradley White  writes:
>
> Just to add my two cents, I do not think that "landuse=forest" should be
> tagged with national forest boundaries.
>
>
> I would like to be clear, here:  I USED TO believe this, as it was the
> “best practice” at the time, and so I DID tag like this.  But this was back
> in 2010-12 or so.  Meanwhile, the boundary=protected_area tag developed and
> evolved, and now I tag US National Forests with this (when I do) along with
> protect_class=6 (or protect_class=1b on Wilderness areas).  This is widely
> accepted in OSM in the USA.
>


> Yes, natural=wood is an important tag, as it really is distinct from
> landuse=forest:  the latter will have (or does have) trees being felled,
> the former simply will not.  OK, OK, maybe a natural=wood had trees felled
> “a long time ago” and so is second-growth (or third-growth).  I think OSM
> can live with that.  As long as the intention is for these trees to remain
> (uncut), and the entirety of the area (closed polygon) is essentially
> “treed,” I believe natural=wood is the correct tag.  I don’t need to have a
> degree in forestry (nor should I) to determine whether to tag natural=wood
> or landuse=forest.  Start with the former, and if you or someone else
> learns of or knows it to be timberland, change it to the latter.  I think
> that can suffice in 98% of the cases, and the other 2% can “be handled” as
> needed.
>
>
Perhaps the problem here is the multiple roles that the the US Forest
Service plays.   Note that that name is from the olden days.  Now the
service is know as the National Park Service.  I looked at the history of
some of these areas.  It looks like most of the tags, nodes, and ways were
configured seven years ago. One of the problems is trying to make sense of
the wiki pages because you bounce around.[1][2].

What does it mean to harvest or fell trees?  It doesn't always mean fresh
cut trees.  I remember skidding trees via a mule in a burn area.  The
rancher that I worked for had a permit to do so from the NPS.  I believe
one of the essential jobs now of the NPS is to cut down trees that were
damaged by beetles so that other trees are not infected.  Sure these trees
are not used to build a building though the standing dead fall may be used
for this purpose in some cases, but the wood makes great fire wood.

I've only casually looked at the protected tag via this discussion.
Perhaps it still applies to the historic preservation[3][4] efforts that
the NPS provides.  I also note at least for Arizona, the Arizona State
Parks department is responsible for forwarding documents to the NPS for the
national register.[5]  In the case of some of these sites, they feel more
like regular parks to me.[6][7]  I like the way Ian brought these over as
leisure=park especially in the case of Pipe Spring National Monument.  Also
note, federal studies must be provided for many construction projects.  I
don't know the exact reasons that would trigger such a study.  The desire
is to prevent additional lost of historic places.  These studies may add
some sites to the registry.

There appear to be problems with the idea of a park.  A park can be larger
than just a small area in a city. In the case of several Maricopa County
regional parks, some have been tagged as boundary=protected_area,
landuse=conservation, and leisure=nature_reserve starting five years
ago[8][9][10].  However, these areas are recreation areas and not protected
areas or conserved land that has been set aside so that moderate human
contact with the area.  These large Maricopa County parks are no different
than New York's Central Park.  I believe that leisure=park is more fitting
for these areas.

Finally, I always wondered why I thought forests outside of Arizona looked
so much greener than what is located here.  Two things dawned on me.  One,
the type of tree is so much different in Arizona compared to, say, a tall
pine tree in Colorado.  Two, there is little to no grass between the
trees.  Hence, some of these boundary=protected_areas in Arizona are
forests but not like the expectation of natural=wood or landuse=forest in
other parts of the country.  ;-)

Regards,
Greg


[1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:protect%20class?uselang=en-US
[2]
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:boundary%3Dprotected_area#Classification

[3] http://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/programs/heritage/
[4] https://www.nps.gov/nr/
[5] http://azstateparks.com/SHPO/

[6] https://www.nps.gov/pisp/planyourvisit/maps.htm
[7]
http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/359249951/history#map=17/36.86230/-112.73726

[8] https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/100085359/#map=14/33.9250/-112.2644
[9] https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/94849767#map=14/33.8300/-111.9998
[10] http://www.maricopacountyparks.net/assets/1/6/lake-pleasant-8x112.pdf
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
htt

Re: [Talk-us] Improving coverage of exit numbers and destinations on motorways

[Greg Morgan]

On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 2:46 AM, Jinal Foflia  wrote:

> There has been a recent push to improve the coverage of exit numbers and
> destination signs on the motorways in the US by the data team at Mapbox.
> Some context here [1][2][3][4]. The primary sources of data were DoT
> documents and Mapillary images.
>
One of the first things that I mapped was exit numbers.  At least that
would provide some clue about the distance you have left or what not.  That
is a great first step but the focus is on urban mapping.  More important
for long distance driving or even navigation are mile markers.  The exit
numbers are tied to the mile markers.  The traffic engineer makes a
decision on an exit number based on the proximity of a mile marker. I have
added part of a press release[2] from Arizona DOT. Milepost/mile maker 346
is referenced.  Milepost/mile markers are far more valuable[1] but are not
rendered and thus have little value to an urban mapper or little reward for
the effort involved.  Also note that the exit numbers/mile makers for a
motorway will reset at state borders.  As I recall I-15 ends around 411 as
you enter Idaho.  Finally, expect gaps in the the exit numbers. Two or more
routes may share a section of the road for awhile until they diverge in
other directions.  Another case, is when the route is split by a city.  In
this case, a route might have run through a city at one time.

The work flow that you mention drive me batty.[0]  At one time there was a
discussion on the list about moving exit_to tags as destination tags on the
ramp.  I moved most of the exit_to tags that I mapped to the ramps.  Here
you are proposing something different by leaving some exit_to tags and
adding destination tags occasionally.  The batty part, is that the original
way I mapped these without exit_to was what I found in Europe. It looks
like Paul has a point because junction:ref is in the wiki page
that Duane cites. I don't know that you can use "does not look like
the x tagging
scheme is very common" or "we will continue to follow the conventional
tagging" when the wiki page has changes as recent as 9/2015.

I don't mind adding these features but there has to be something presented
on the main OSM maps other than another art project.  If you are looking
for mapper participation or encouraging passive users to become mappers,
then there has to be a reward on the main OSM site.  Otherwise, OSM has
developed the most boring video game that shows no lights nor rings any
bells.  It is the cartographers and not the importers that are killing off
mappers!

Regards,
Greg


[0] https://gist.github.com/poornibadrinath/f982a947c6a063ed1a9016a2d3246d4a
Look out for red outer circle for missing destination. Use open in JOSM
button to open the node in JOSM. Orange outer circle represents exit_to tag
and we don't need to add destination tags in the way. Green outer circle
represent that the concern way already has destination tag.

[1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3910143420

[2] Bridge work to close State Route 89 for four hours late Friday
Those traveling between Prescott and I-40 should consider alternate routes

PHOENIX ‒ State Route 89 will close for four hours approximately 13 miles
north of Chino Valley starting at 9 p.m. Friday, May 6, so crews can pour a
concrete bridge deck at Hell Canyon __(milepost 346).__ It’s one of the
final steps in readying a $14.4 million bridge scheduled to open to traffic
in mid-June.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Optimal / preferred checkin sizes

[Greg Morgan]

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Steve Friedl  wrote:

> Hi everybody,
>
>
>
> I spend way too much time in JOSM mapping my local area, but I’ve never
> really known how to best batch changes.
>
>
>
> Sometimes it’s obvious: if I work on a certain feature (say, adding
> details of fire stations), I add them and check them in one at a time, but
> sometimes I’m doing cleanup of a large area with no obvious breaking points.
>
>
>
> I don’t think that 3 square miles of road straightening ought to go in a
> single [enormous] batch, but I’m not sure that 100 entries of the form
> ‘Straightened Main Street in MyTown” / “Straightened Elm Street in MyTown”
> / “Straightened Euclid Steet in MyTown” is really adding any value.
>
>
>
> How does one decide how best to check stuff in?
>

The two words that say creativity is dead are "Best Practices".  In my
case, I don't care!  ;-)  Enjoy mapping.  If what you are mapping takes you
into a large area of work, then don't worry about it.  Part of my answer is
based on the density of mappers in my region and the US in general.  I've
been know to map for 12 hours in one change set.  I've had two conflicts in
six years.  Both of them were very odd and edge cases in my experience. I
have never thought about the size of the area that I map.  By all means
leave a change set comment.  You are communicating with other mappers. I
found that the change set comment is a frail thing.  It may not always
cover the mapping at hand regardless of the size of the area.  I will also
add note tags to features.  There are times where I cannot survey an area.
If there could be a question of why I made the change or why I split a way,
then the note tag becomes a mini comment about that decision.  It is also
another form of communication. I forgot who mentioned this on the list, but
if there is potential issue about a road that was removed because of
construction, then I will draw in a way and add a note tag explaining the
issue.  That way this whole pointless issue of arm chair mapping verses
survey mapping is removed from the joy of mapping!

Remember: have fun!  Mapping takes you into the spatial part of your
brain.  The logical side of your brain takes a rest.  That is the best part
of mapping.

Regards,
Greg
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] OSM attribution on website store locator pages

[Greg Morgan]

On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 9:39 AM, Matt Simpson  wrote:

> All - seaming to understand the intent of this thread and hoping to shed
> some light for you.
>
> Our team (MAGNETIC) was hired to design/develop the pieology website.
> Pieology also hired a company to build their store locator, which was
> outside our scope of work. The company they hired for store location
> services is Momentfeed (https://momentfeed.com/), seemingly a branch or
> distributor of Mobify, who looks to be using your service at the core of
> the location tool they provide.
>
> I would suggest contacting Momentfeed and/or Mobify to discuss
> attribution. As someone mentioned earlier, Pieology will have very little
> input on the matter.
>
> Hope this helps -
>
>
Matt,

Thank you for the response.  www.OpenStreetMap.org is a crowd sourced map
of the world. I love it that the Pieology site is using OSM.  There are a
number of other notable sites that are using OSM such as Craig's list
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/search/fua .  We are just trying to get to
the bottom of which firm should put the correct attribution on the Pieology
site.  I provided the CL map because it has the proper attribution.

Again thank you for the response.

Regards,
Greg




> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 6:40 AM, Greg Morgan 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 10:24 AM, Martijn van Exel  wrote:
>>
>>> Interesting, a bit troubling, to see an increasing number of layers —
>>> abstraction — between the end user and the OSM data. Now it’s three — the
>>> web site itself, Mobify (never heard of them), Mapbox —  between the end
>>> user and OSM. Makes it easier for all the intermediaries to point to the
>>> others for attribution requirements. And harder for the OSM community to
>>> enforce this simple but important requirement. OSM can only benefit from
>>> having many eyes on the map if we can continue to close this feedback loop.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> There is one more layer of abstraction: the design firm
>> http://www.magneticcreative.com/.  It seems that Magnetic Creative would
>> understand this issue.  They have their name in fine print at the bottom of
>> each page on the site.  Just as they want their name published for
>> potential clients, OpenStreetMap would like attribution for potential
>> future mappers.  I added their email to the list.  They would have to join
>> the list to respond, etc.  However, they should be able to pick up the
>> drift from this email chain.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Greg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> To my mind it’s on Mapbox to enforce attribution, I assume having this
>>> present on the map is in the terms they present to their customers?
>>>
>>> Martijn
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 13, 2016, at 7:31 AM, Fred Hillhouse 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Their tiles are coming from Mapbox. Who gets the attribution?
>>>
>>>
>>> http://b.tiles.mapbox.com/v4/dondeinc.i1021nhc/17/37433/50038.jpg70?access_token=pk.eyJ1IjoiZG9uZGVpbmMiLCJhIjoiZ200QzN4dyJ9.KIhMqSmPUSn9Kru51GZT4g
>>>
>>> Fred
>>>
>>> --
>>> *From:* Harald Kliems [mailto:kli...@gmail.com ]
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 13, 2016 8:08 AM
>>> *To:* Hans De Kryger; Peter Dobratz
>>> *Cc:* talk-us@openstreetmap.org
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-us] OSM attribution on website store locator pages
>>>
>>> Might make more sense to directly contact Mobify as the map provider. I
>>> have suspicion Pieology will have no clue what you're talking about and
>>> wouldn't be able to fix it themselves anyway. Contact for mobify:
>>> http://www.mobify.com/contact/
>>>
>>>  Harald.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 1:10 AM Hans De Kryger <
>>> hans.dekryge...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I see nothing on the entire site linking/mentioning osm. their emails
>>> i...@pieology.com if you want to contact them.
>>>
>>> *Regards,*
>>> *Hans*
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 9:08 PM, Peter Dobratz  wrote:
>>> I'm seeing OSM data used more and more for generating the basemap onto
>>> which things like store location data is displayed on store websites.
>>> However, it's not always easy to find links to OSM attribution on such maps.
>>>
>>> Has anyone seen this?
>>>
>>> http://locations.pieology.com/
>>>
>>> There's a link to http://www.mobify.

Re: [Talk-us] OSM attribution on website store locator pages

[Greg Morgan]

On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 10:24 AM, Martijn van Exel  wrote:

> Interesting, a bit troubling, to see an increasing number of layers —
> abstraction — between the end user and the OSM data. Now it’s three — the
> web site itself, Mobify (never heard of them), Mapbox —  between the end
> user and OSM. Makes it easier for all the intermediaries to point to the
> others for attribution requirements. And harder for the OSM community to
> enforce this simple but important requirement. OSM can only benefit from
> having many eyes on the map if we can continue to close this feedback loop.
>
>


There is one more layer of abstraction: the design firm
http://www.magneticcreative.com/.  It seems that Magnetic Creative would
understand this issue.  They have their name in fine print at the bottom of
each page on the site.  Just as they want their name published for
potential clients, OpenStreetMap would like attribution for potential
future mappers.  I added their email to the list.  They would have to join
the list to respond, etc.  However, they should be able to pick up the
drift from this email chain.

Regards,
Greg







> To my mind it’s on Mapbox to enforce attribution, I assume having this
> present on the map is in the terms they present to their customers?
>
> Martijn
>
>
> On Apr 13, 2016, at 7:31 AM, Fred Hillhouse 
> wrote:
>
>
> Their tiles are coming from Mapbox. Who gets the attribution?
>
>
> http://b.tiles.mapbox.com/v4/dondeinc.i1021nhc/17/37433/50038.jpg70?access_token=pk.eyJ1IjoiZG9uZGVpbmMiLCJhIjoiZ200QzN4dyJ9.KIhMqSmPUSn9Kru51GZT4g
>
> Fred
>
> --
> *From:* Harald Kliems [mailto:kli...@gmail.com ]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 13, 2016 8:08 AM
> *To:* Hans De Kryger; Peter Dobratz
> *Cc:* talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-us] OSM attribution on website store locator pages
>
> Might make more sense to directly contact Mobify as the map provider. I
> have suspicion Pieology will have no clue what you're talking about and
> wouldn't be able to fix it themselves anyway. Contact for mobify:
> http://www.mobify.com/contact/
>
>  Harald.
>
> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 1:10 AM Hans De Kryger 
> wrote:
>
> I see nothing on the entire site linking/mentioning osm. their emails
> i...@pieology.com if you want to contact them.
>
> *Regards,*
> *Hans*
>
> On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 9:08 PM, Peter Dobratz  wrote:
> I'm seeing OSM data used more and more for generating the basemap onto
> which things like store location data is displayed on store websites.
> However, it's not always easy to find links to OSM attribution on such maps.
>
> Has anyone seen this?
>
> http://locations.pieology.com/
>
> There's a link to http://www.mobify.com/ in the lower-left corner, but I
> can't seem to find any links to http://www.openstreetmap.org/ anywhere on
> the page.
>
> Peter
>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
>
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Talk-us Digest, Vol 101, Issue 10

[Greg Morgan]

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 5:01 PM, Mueller, Thomas  wrote:

> I am very sorry for my lack of communication.  Yes I am Tom Mueller.  I
> have a class called Introduction to Geography.  It is a class of 100
> students.  I offered my students an opportunity of extra credit if they
> completed 3 new buildings in their hometown (about 45 students took me up
> on this option.)  I had the students watch the MapGive video and they are
> submitting the screen shots to me.  I am asking students to make changes if
> there are problems.  I attempted this type of project about a year ago and
> did not have any problems.  I am sorry I was unaware that I needed to
> contact anyone.
>
I believe that black and white ink make this a challenge.  I think part of
the questions raised are how does the US OSM community assist a teacher
make a subject come alive like you are doing?  When I go out to map, I do
not have ask anyone before I start mapping.  Neither should you.  What you
are doing is no different than some of the Mapathon's that the US OSM
conduct.  You are attempting to guide these students just like what happens
at a Mapathon.  Moreover, you are mirroring what most of the data tell the
community, "A new mapper tends to create their first edit in their home
town."  You mentioned MapGive.  I have provided links to several
resources.  The first two are teaching resources.  The second two links are
safety nets.  Mapping is a human endeavor.  It is full of mistakes. These
last two resources show how US OSM as a community can come alongside your
efforts and repair any alleged damage. I would rather have these two tools
lit up with problems than a perfect map where new mappers are afraid to
touch the data.  The most important that you are showing is that you can
teach Geo/GIS concepts without standing up $100K of ESRI products to do
so.  The money can stay in the class room!

http://teachosm.org/en/
http://maptime.io/
http://keepright.ipax.at/report_map.php?zoom=12&lat=39.95356&lon=-75.12364
http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/

>
> If this is a problem, I will ask my students to stop.  I apologize.  I was
> using this extra credit as a test case for a bigger project in the fall
> semester .  However if this is causing a problem I will also not proceed.
>
>
> I tell you what, depending on what you need, there are plenty of projects
that I can provide you in Arizona. You are welcome to come to my hood as an
area for your larger project.  I would be happy to help out with your fall
semester in any way that I can. An example project might be one of the many
historic districts that are still not complete.  These are not full of old
1600 to 1800 buildings.  It is believed that the number of cheap building
material resources[1] along the Salt River and the post WWII boom made
these areas a special significance worthy of the US Parks preservation
efforts.

I can show you how I built on top of all the importers that have
contributed to the US OSM efforts.  Take a well forested area, then burn
off all the trees.  That is what I a desert is.  I have pieced together all
the dams and other support features in the Metro Phoenix area that are used
to control an area without a watershed.  There are still named
rivers/washes that can be added via tracing techniques.  Related to the
washes is the WWWII escape in Papago Park.  I am still trying to hunt down
where this memorial is
http://www.laurielundquist.com/_img/Swimming%20D/CC_6md.jpg.
http://www.laurielundquist.com/public_art_CC.html.

Please proceed.  There are many mappers cheering on your efforts.

Regards,
Greg Morgan


Brentwood Historic District
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/124871379#map=17/33.46098/-112.04512
[1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/33.41555/-112.04048
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] RfD notification: Purge tag "priority" from tracks

[Greg Morgan]

On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 7:14 AM, Roland Olbricht  wrote:

> Dear fellow mappers,
>
> we, the company Mentz, would like to fulfill a wish of the German
> community and change our former tagging of railway tracks.
>
> This constitutes a mechanical edit. Therefore, I would like to notify you
> that I have put a request for discussion on talk-transit@ .
> If you would like to discuss, please do so there.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Dr. Roland Olbricht


Dr. Olbricht,

Thank you for publishing your intent.  I am coping the US Talk list because
a number of us rail fans in the US are looking at European tag models for
the vast railway network that we are piecing together.
http://www.openrailwaymap.org/ looks like the only way to show cases all
the features of rail changes. Will there be an impact to the railway map
too?

Regards,
Greg
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Dakota County Mn Bulk Building and Address Import

[Greg Morgan]

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 10:17 AM, Joe Sapletal 
wrote:

>
>
> I’m looking for some assistance and support for doing a Bulk Import of
> buildings with address information.  I’ve already assembled the data from
> the source, but I need help converting it and uploading it and to build
> community support.  I started a wiki page here -
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Minnesota/DakotaCounty/Buildings_Import
> it links to a couple of samples areas of the data.  One I’ve already
> uploaded as a test at this location -
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/44.74096/-93.10751
>
>
>
> Any assistance would be great.
>
>
>
>
>
Joe,

That is some beautiful work.  I like how you are limiting your work to a
small area.  How are you going to grow otherwise?  I like how you are just
working on an area that you have edited.  That respects other mapper's
work.  One change that you should consider is how to merge these foot
prints with other mapper's work.  For example, I looked at one building.[1]
This is your own work.  However, I'd find a way to preserve the existing
way and nodes so that you change the features in place.  It builds on other
mapper's work.  I also included a link to whodidit for your area.[2]  I
have whodidit zoomed in but the map may take a bit to load.  What you are
looking for are mappers in your area that may want to take part in the
effort.  Whodidit is just one example and one way to find this information.
  You may find that there are no mappers in your area that have an interest
in this effort. If that is the case, then there are other mappers in the US
that would like to see you succeed in a positive way.  They may be willing
to pitch in as part of a community effort as long as you have diced up the
data for multiple mappers to participate.  I think you should start with
the US mailing list for guidance.. I believe mappers on this list would be
more helpful than on other lists. As you refine your process and get good
feedback, then you can move to other lists for the final import plans.

I hope this helps get you started,
Greg Morgan

[1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/396603853/history
http://zverik.osm.rambler.ru/whodidit/?zoom=16&lat=44.74246&lon=-93.10183&layers=BTT&age=1000
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Communications manager

[Greg Morgan]

On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 12:01 PM, Luis Villa  wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 11:55 AM Steve Coast  wrote:
>
>>
>> > On Apr 1, 2016, at 12:42 AM, Paul Norman  wrote:
>> >
>> > On 4/1/2016 12:22 AM, Greg Morgan wrote:
>> >> I would think that the US Board should add another board member to be
>> a communications manager.  I now understand why corporations have paid
>> staff that do nothing but manage all these communication options.
>> >
>> > Why would this need to be a board member as opposed to another
>> volunteer managing communications without being a board member?
>>
>> Because volunteers tend to be terrible at doing work that isn’t fun.
>>
>
> Good thing board members are paid, then! Oh, wait ;)
>
> Seriously, I'm with Paul- a designated group of volunteers who actually
> enjoys and wants to do this would create a lot of value. (Casually engaged
> people like me would get a lot out of it.)
>
> But making the board *more* of a working board is not a healthy trend.
> Except in a few very, very key areas (finance, mostly) the board should be
> about identifying issues and encouraging people to work on them, not doing
> things themselves.
>

Luis, I am one hundred percent behind you.  Just like with Martijn, I
helped out with a starting wiki page. A blank page is no fun.  Here you
go.[1]  Go man Go!  If you have the secret sauce to grease the wheels, then
document away.  You would answer the problem for US OSM and many other
volunteer organizations. Please remember, the US Board is still the owner
and would require approval when you have an implementation plan with your
"casually engaged people."  I've been around enough people from Missouri to
say, "Show Me!"  Well then there is Linus Torvalds: “Talk is cheap. Show me
the code.”  I also found two links that provide you with another
perspective on Steve's statement, "Because volunteers tend to be terrible
at doing work that isn’t fun." [2], [3]

As always we'll be watching and supporting you.  I've have a watch marked
on the wiki page so that I can cheer for you.

I hope this helps,
Greg


[1]
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/Local_Chapters/United_States/Communications
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herding_cats
[3] http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=herding+cats
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Communications manager

[Greg Morgan]

On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 12:42 AM, Paul Norman  wrote:

> On 4/1/2016 12:22 AM, Greg Morgan wrote:
>
>> I would think that the US Board should add another board member to be a
>> communications manager.  I now understand why corporations have paid staff
>> that do nothing but manage all these communication options.
>>
>
> Why would this need to be a board member as opposed to another volunteer
> managing communications without being a board member?
>

Umm...because I am thinking like the US mission statement.  (Note that I
added under bars for emphasis.) Because I have little time nor interest to
join all the social media groups.  Because I would think the board has
access to information that I do not.  Because I would think that this would
be all about transparency of the board.

I enjoy listening to our conference videos. They are thought provoking. I
try to attend the state of the map every year but some other concern
prevents my attendance. It is not like I am saying, "not my job".  I asked
permission from the US board via the board's email address.  I did not want
to step on someones toes if a person on the 2016 organizing committee
already called dibs for the job.  I'd be happy to take on the job of
organizing the You Tube and Vimeo video channels.  I love this media.  I am
perfect for the job.  You create 'em.  I'll arrange 'em.  However, that
would require security access and trust that may not be appropriate under
this circumstances.

I am just discussing one part of fostering awarenes.  Hence my thoughts
about one position on the board to help manage the load of all
communications.

Regards,
Greg

Mission statement

We strive to support the OpenStreetMap project in the United States through
___fostering awareness___, ensuring broad availability of data, continuous
quality improvement, and an active community.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/Local_Chapters/United_States#Mission_statement
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Slack

[Greg Morgan]

On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 12:52 PM, Martijn van Exel  wrote:

> I find this a really worthwhile conversation to have. IRC is still great
> for some but it’s hardly inclusive. I like Slack and started using it early
> on. We set up an OSM US Slack, initially just for the board to coordinate,
> but we extended it to be open for all soon. They even give us free stuff
> because we’re a not-for-profit organization. I am a lurker on the Maptime
> slack and member of ~10 Slack organizations total. I introduced Slack at my
> workplace and it has gained great popularity there since. I like how Slack
> could help support a more inclusive OSM community.
>
>
I would think that the US Board should add another board member to be a
communications manager.  I now understand why corporations have paid staff
that do nothing but manage all these communication options.  For example,
 I was surprised to find that the call for US SOTM 2016 was open.  I missed
it because I don't always catch the board blog.  Had there been a board
position to send an email here, then another part of the community would
have received the message.  In a recent email chain about the US relation
tool, Martijn mentioned that he was wrapped around the axle going ca-thump,
ca-thump. I asked for permission to fix the 2015 SOTMUS page and create the
2016 SOTMUS page. The backing email is attached.  Martijn sends out a
tweet.  I see that I missed posting about it here. Oh and I have to sign up
for talk-ca to complete that important announcement too.  However, I don't
want to step on the organizing committee's toes and role in process.
That's where if feels like another board position is required to make sure
all these communication channels are filled. (I need to push the 2015 video
page edits to the weekend. Plans fizzle but I will get it done.)

Frederik mentioned Git.  I remember watching Git unfold.  Linus was taking
heat for using the proprietary Bit Keeper software to manage the Linux
Kernel development.  I think there was a Bit Keeper license violation.  As
I recall proprietary a company/person taunted Linux developers that crowd
sourced software couldn't match a system like Bit Keeper. Roughly 18 months
later, Git was complete/stable.  The software was functional and useful
much earlier than 18 months.  It seems like all creatures great and small
use the github.com site without thinking about it.  Github is a well
crafted wrapper around Git.

On the one hand, I understand all the paywalls out there that provide
different communication features.  I am concerned about the future openness
of the web when it appears that all the foundational RFCs are taken behind
these paywalls.  It almost feels like Facebook is recreating the web as a
private web. New hotness X is all the some people use.  It is hard to reach
out to these people if you do not use new hotness X to do so.  On the other
hand, there may be missed potential systems like Git if we don't stick to
our "Open Source/Open Data" guns so to speak.

I have two more thoughts.  The first is related to SOTMUS. At one time last
year there was a hope of having regional conferences.  Then the SOTMUS 2016
call for locations went out.  I am curios.  Was there an interesting
discussion on, say, Slack? Did the board forget to explain why the regional
conferences were dropped? Did the board flat out forget to think about it?

My second thought is about the legal thing.  Let's say the board had an
interesting discussion regarding the pros and cons about bringing in the
Harvard people using slack. Let's say that the board thought other people
were watching on slack or whatever you do. tick tock tick tock.  Now that
time passed and the Harvard people are discovered, the board lost the
message because the postmortem conversation looked like the board was way
too private and secretive.

By all means, I am not out running the lynch mob after the board.  I am
using these examples to show how hard communication can be. In our current
age, I think that an already difficult communication process grows as each
of these slack like tools is adopted.

Just like Betty White, I am on the Twitter.  I just don't have enough
cycles to use it.  More importantly, I need to have time to contribute at
least one change set a day big or small.  That's that way I can set out to
rule the world each day just like Pinky and the Brain.  ;-)

Regards,
Greg




Greg -- this is great. Thank you so much for getting this organized. Let me
tweet out a link to the wiki so folks are aware of it. Feel free to post to
talk-us / talk-ca too of course.

On Sat, Mar 26, 2016 at 12:13 AM Greg Morgan wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 8:33 AM, Martijn van Exel wrote:
>
>> Thanks Greg! I took the liberty to remove the call for bids from the 2016
>> page as this part of the process is behind us. Please feel free to organize
>> the page based on

Re: [Talk-us] Legal Research

[Greg Morgan]

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 5:12 AM, Paul Johnson  wrote:

>
> On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 4:58 PM, alyssa wright 
> wrote:
>
>> We're also accepting nominations for next year's OSM US pet mascot.
>
>
> I nominate me !
>

Paul, I can see that.  However, you'd need to replace the logo with some
sort of mappy thing and then run the image through an emoji process.  You
get plus point because the base image is not a cat or dog!
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Smartphone App that searches OSM addresses?

[Greg Morgan]

I am using the Android version of Maps.ME and there is a IOS version.  I
just tried an address in Maps.ME.  If found an address that I knew was
there.  You have choices to load state by state files.  High zoom tiles
come by default with the application so that you have reference roads.  You
will be asked to load the state file as you zoom in to find detail.  The
search/routing requires that you select the larger of two available files
for the state. I have not tried to create my own tiles.  They do provide a
quarterly update to the files along with the application if required.  I
suggested the IOS version to my sister who may travel to Europe.  She
seemed pleased.   I wanted to use a Garmin like app for Android for the
files that Dave Hansen produces of the US.  I tried Maps.ME before I
searched for other options. The Maps.ME application fixes the roaming data
problem that I have with cell coverage in Arizona.   I found an old working
Samsung 2 without a sim card.  I turned on Airplane mode and reenabled WiFi
access--saving battery.  I have all the states west of the Mississippi
loaded on that phone without addition microSD card use.  That allows me to
take pictures with Mapillary on my primary phone yet still have map
coverage with the second phone.

Regards,
Greg


On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 8:49 PM, Mike N  wrote:

> In the case where a county completely revamps its road network and
> addressing scheme for E911 purposes, then authorizes its road and address
> data to OSM, and it's properly imported, are there any Smartphone apps for
> both Android and IOS that would search those addresses?   And have turn by
> turn routing.
>
>   My cursory review:
>
>   OffMaps2 - Yes on address search, no on routing
>GPS Nav - uses commercial address reference over OSM address
>Scout - "  "
> OSMAnd - theoretically Yes on Android (I haven't tried it), I can't
> get any OSM address search to work on iPhone
>
>  Any suggestions?
>
>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] SunCertPathBuilderException

[Greg Morgan]

Checking the certificate[1] via a web browser says that the certificate for
https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/StartupPage is valid from ‎Friday,
‎December ‎09, ‎2016 1:37:29 PM until 12/9/2016.  If you haven't used this
computer for awhile you might check your JOSM version.  I had no problems
last night nor since the cert was issued on 12/9 with the latest version of
JOSM. I don't know if the SHA-1 issue[2] is related.

If the issue is a proxy problem as Mike pointed out, then I recall that you
have to add -Dhttp.proxyHost=yourProxyURL to your JOSM arguments before you
can change the proxy settings in your preferences.

[1]
https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/95617?p=ui_security_indicator&rd=1
[2] http://blog.chromium.org/2014/09/gradually-sunsetting-sha-1.html

On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 1:49 PM, Alan Bragg  wrote:

>
>
> At 3pm EST JOSM is refusing to start. I getting this message.
> ​If I ignore the message I can continue to use JOSM as usual.
>
> -
>
> JOSM tried to access the following resources:
>
>- https://josm.openstreetmap.de/maps
>- https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/StartupPage
>
> but *failed* to do so, because of the following network errors:
>
>- sun.security.provider.certpath.SunCertPathBuilderException: unable
>to find valid certification path to requested target
>
> It may be due to a missing proxy configuration.
> Would you like to change your proxy settings now?
>
> --
>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
>
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Gosh ... something about mapping ...

[Greg Morgan]

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 8:45 AM, Harald Kliems  wrote:

> Very useful, Simon. Thanks!
>
> Slightly OT: Can anybody explain what R5-5, "No vehicles with lugs" means?
> I'm assuming it doesn't refer to vehicles like this
> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_MyBrrEGexIg/TEIogw5nrdI/AFk/Jl7SF5tfQV0/s1600/L9990154.JPG
>
>
>
>>
You made me look...

In the early years of the 20th century, hard-surface roads often had signs
that read: “Tractors with Lugs Prohibited.”

Those early tractors were built with steel wheels covered with piercing
lugs that gouged every surface. I remember the signs on U.S. 63 south of
Stewartville to Racine and then on Minnesota Highway 16 going west to Grand
Meadow.

By the late 1930s, tractors finally were being built with rubber tires that
still gave field traction and speed, sometimes up to 20 mph on the road.

...

http://www.postbulletin.com/news/local/tractors-with-lugs-were-dangerous/article_580aa04a-5d73-5de1-8139-7b402a63ba90.html
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] GeoBadges 1.0 for OpenStreetMap

[Greg Morgan]

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 6:45 PM, Steven Johnson 
wrote:

> Hello list,
>
> Just in time for #OSMGeoweek, TeachOSM with support from Mapstory.org and
> American Geographical Society, has released the first OpenStreetMap
> Surveyor I badge.[1]
>
> The badge is aimed at the newest open mappers of any age and is awarded
> for successful acquisition of basic editing skills on OpenStreetMap. We
> envision this badge to be the first in a constellation of more specialized
> badges based on skill sets, domains, area knowledge, and so forth. For more
> info on the mechanics of GeoBadges, see the AGS blog post[2].
>
> We have a special deal during OSMGeoweek: Anyone who maps in any of the
> #100Mapathons, #MissingMaps, #PeaceCorps, or #HOT events during OSMGeoweek
> will be eligible to claim the badge. Just make sure to comment your
> changeset with one of the 2015 OSMGeoweek hashtags so we can find it.
>
> Happy Mapping, everyone...
>
> [1] http://bit.ly/1NAhybF
> [2] http://bit.ly/1Pwsi0G 
> -- SEJ
> -- twitter: @geomantic
> -- skype: sejohnson8
>
>
Steven Johnson,

Like dude!  My hat is off to you!!!  You dared to violate the mainstream
[1] way of doing OSM business.  I don't know if we should call you Newton
[2], Galileo [3], Ignaz [4], Lincoln [6], or suffrage [7].  All I know is
that it takes a long [4][8] to make changes around here. I don't get why
OpenStreetMap has such a problem with some of the key tenants of Open
Source:
* Show me the code to make it better if the current code is wrong.
* Release early and release often.
* Use the force read the source.
I just saw these videos today. I get what you are trying to do!!!
1.) You are trying to help new mappers choose a lovable project to focus
on. [9][10].
2.) You are helping new mappers by picking one topic at a time to focus
energy on. [9][10]
3.) You are doing new mappers a favor by helping them define a performance
level. [9][10]
4.) and how to deconstructing the skill into subskills for them with badge
levels.
5) What's totally awesome about your plan is that you are providing time
frames for each subskill in say 20 hours. [9][10]
Oh my goodness! Steven your are a rocket scientist when it comes to those
little badges.  I get that you are starting at "Surveyor I" with just
setting up an account.  You have a plan to build on badge I with editing,
advanced editing, reading aerials, using KeepRight, and finally ending up
at say,Surveyor 25 after learning all the survey techniques.

I hope that you keep at your idea as you have dared to "Release early" in
hopes of developing a community around the system.  I hope that you can
ignore all the negative feedback [11] and return here for further refine
your badge ideas,"release often".  Hey I know that there are some pervs on
the network.  Even though the pervs exist, there are all these kids out
there that lie behind their parents backs and have a facebook page at 12.
Yes and they also lie about their age too to get that FB account.  If your
program fails approval based on age issues, I think you are on track to
develop the idea for "adults". The rewards idea are awesome. The current
plan of making new mappers think that have to have $20,000 of GPS
equipment[12] before adding a single node isn't working.

Keep up the good work Steve!

Regards,
Greg


mainstream
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__dDAD0Y_WU&t=309
Newton
[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__dDAD0Y_WU&t=470
Galileo
[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__dDAD0Y_WU&t=617
Ignaz Semmelweis
[4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__dDAD0Y_WU&t=716
It takes a long time.
[5] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__dDAD0Y_WU&t=836
Lincoln
[6] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__dDAD0Y_WU&t=866
Suffrage
[7] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__dDAD0Y_WU&t=912
It takes a long time like gravity
[8] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__dDAD0Y_WU&t=946
Visual summary "The First 20 Hours"
[9]
http://sachachua.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/20130705-Visual-Book-Review-The-First-20-Hours-How-to-Learn-Anything...-Fast-Josh-Kaufman.png
You tube "The First 20 Hours" interview.
[10] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lB6K60mkmho
feedback
[11] https://youtu.be/Bxtb-PpZih8?t=653
$20,000 to mark plant locations for a database.
[12] http://www.meetup.com/PHXGeo/photos/21943882/364216142/#364216142
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] OpenStreetMap US elections: October 12 townhall with candidates

[Greg Morgan]

On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 7:44 AM, Michael Reichert  wrote:

> Dear US electorate,
>
> Am Thu, 08 Oct 2015 20:16:50 -0700 schrieb Alex Barth:
> > And - it's not to late to run for elections! Get your name up on the
> > list by October 10th.
> >
> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/Local_Chapters/
> United_States/Elections/2015#Candidates
>
> And this is my censorious analysis reviewing all candidates:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Nakaner/diary/36098
>
> *Summary* I think that some candidates are suitable and some are not
> suitable. It looks as the number of edits and the time since the first
> map edit is proportional to the suitability of each candidate (with some
> exceptions).
>

Thank you for the analysis.  It is the same message that I heard last
year.  I applaud the courage of these inexperienced mappers or whatever the
criteria is to run for the board. New blood and old blood would make things
better regardless how many nodes or their consistency level of adding map
features.  It feels like the experienced people want more mapping parties
like England and Germany for example.  That practice does not scale outside
of densely packed US urban areas. A new/old mapper might come up with a new
way of doing business in the US.  Experienced people like DBAs have told me
that I should not store images in a database.  Then MapBox comes along with
MBTiles and has a great solution to managing tiles. Inexperience people can
find new ways of looking at the same people that's results in game changing
techniques. The diversity of experience and opinions make this a strong
slate of candidates.  What would the US board do if the main problem is at
the OSF level as far as new ideas or unrecognized problems?

Regards,
Greg
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Find missing roads

[Greg Morgan]

On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 5:42 PM, Martijn van Exel  wrote:

> I'll look into it.
>


I don't know if this is the same issue.  I noticed that there was a
disconnect between the web map,
http://www.improve-osm.org/missingRoads/#7/34.611/-109.797 , and Josm.  The
website showed just a few heatmap giblets. Yet there area all sorts of red
does in Josm.  Then I realized that the defaults of the website might be
different than Josm.  Either that or I changed the two so that they did not
match.



>
> On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 6:18 PM Russ Nelson  wrote:
>
>> Eric Ladner writes:
>>  > I see some just north of Utica.   dozens of dots over all of New York
>> if I
>>  > zoom out.
>>
>> Weird. I fixed some north of Utica. Are your dots possibly cached? Is
>> my lack of dots cached? Martijn?
>>
>> Paul Johnson  writes:
>>  > Try other states?  ;o)
>>
>> I don't know if you've noticed, but I stick to NY. It's big enough to
>> be a challenge, but small enough to say "I finished this." where
>> "this" is lakes, ponds, rivers, streams, boat ramps, interstates, and
>> railroads. My own county is a big enough challenge to get all its
>> county roads into relations. I need to start that project up again
>>
>
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

[Talk-us] Android Phone App that Uses Garmin Format -- Was Whole-US Garmin Map update - 2015-09-30

[Greg Morgan]

On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Dave Hansen  wrote:
> These are based off of Lambertus's work here:
>
> http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl
>
> If you have questions or comments about these maps, please feel
> free to ask.  However, please do not send me private mail.  The
> odds are, someone else will have the same questions, and by
> asking on the talk-us@ list, others can benefit.
>
> Downloads:
>
> http://daveh.dev.openstreetmap.org/garmin/Lambertus/2015-09-30
>
> Map to visualize what each file contains:
>
> 
> http://daveh.dev.openstreetmap.org/garmin/Lambertus/2015-09-30/kml/kml.html


I think my Garmin GPS finally died.  Has anyone had experience with or
can recommend an Android app that uses the Garmin file format?  I seem
to be in areas where the data roaming does not shine.  It would be
nice to toss one of these US Garmin files on the SD card and still be
able to navigate.  The primary concern is navigation so the other
editing features and such are not as great of a concern.

Thanks,
Greg

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Should driveways be on OSM?

[Greg Morgan]

On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 7:23 AM, Tom Bloom  wrote:
> Summary, sort of. Thanks for all comments!
>
> There is no consensus, but what I've gleaned is that:

I believe you are reading into what was said to prove your point.
>
> -If the driveway is long and wrong, or short and inside an urban area,
> delete it.

Long story short: you are going to delete this guys hard work because
you do not like how it is rendered.

Longer story long:  One of the best things about OSM is the level of
detail that can be achieve.  One of the best example areas in the US
on the top 100K meta tiles
http://fred.dev.openstreetmap.org/density/
 is in east coast.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?box=yes&bbox=-78.662109375,35.7821707032661,-78.6181640625,35.8178131586966#map=19/35.84268/-78.65369
Look at that beautiful detail!.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1938107848
There's even detail that's not rendered.

What's even more impressive about this area is that much of the map
detail was entered in after TIGER.  Yes someone entered it by hand.
So are you going to delete this area too just because you don't like
how it is renedered?  If other maps do not include features are you
going to delete that too?
I do not understand why you'd want to take the map density backwards
just because you do not like how it is rendered.


>
> Paul and Kevin say I should fix them. Easily said, but there are are too
> many and there are whole towns needing alignment, and endless roads
> connecting them that don't remotely resemble reality. No data is better than
> wrong data.
>
> -Change to hwy=service, and service=driveway. I agree.
>
> -Regarding access=private. If there is a gate, it's private. If it is a lane
> to a farmhouse, it may or may not be. There are any number of reasons. The
> electric meter reader. FedEx. Someone who is lost. The vet. I think the
> private tag should be removed, unless the lane is posted private. I've never
> seen one in decades of biking country roads. Farmers love company. If there
> is an address issue, it is normally the mail box at the main road, not at
> the house.
>
> -Shared lane. If there is more than one house, the lane should be fixed.
>
> -Living Streets. This is a distinct entity and not something decided by OSM.
> They are decided by local administration, and OSM should tag them only after
> that. Paul suggests that there could be townhouses at the end of rural lanes
> in rural Oregon. They are farmhouses and the tag is wrong. Tho I do prefer
> the wrong green tag to the wrong red tag :-).
>
> -Don't map for the renderer. Agreed, but it seems reasonable to try to make
> the map look good. Mapnik is the face of OSM for most people. Paul again
> suggests that I should make my own render. Why? I've spent countless hours
> aligning rivers, roads, and rails with Mapnik as the guide. This makes the
> map look better and may appeal more to prospective users.

So if we follow your logic these features are next on your list:
Google doesn't map bridges that means delete
Google doesn't map leisure=pitch or sports fields that means delete.
Google doesn't map leisure=playground that means delete.
Google doesn't map highway=crossing that means delete.
On and on it goes...
Hence your idea of what should be displayed on osm has major roads and
rivers that you have mapped.

Like dude!  You are part of a community.  There are other opinions of
what should be in the map database.  That's why we don't map for the
rendering.  Other people take that data and create their versions of
the map .  They will not be able to do that if you remove all the data
based on a formula where you do not see the another map that presents
the data or how a certain map looks.

Your view may explain what Pascal noted in his research: "Also, the
previously discussed pattern which depicts a contributor loss of
almost 70% over the years is again visible."
http://neis-one.org/2014/08/osm-activity-2014/

Why would any mapper want to contribute hours and hours of time to OSM
just to have someone with a wild hair delete all their work because
they don't like how it renders?  Put the beer down and sober up before
you wreck someone else's work!

Regards,
Greg

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Should driveways be on OSM?

[Greg Morgan]

On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 8:48 AM, Toby Murray  wrote:
> I run into this as well. If I don't see anything close to the way on
> imagery I definitely have very little problem deleting them.
>
> I also question the access=private tagging although not because of the
> rendering. I mean technically it is correct I suppose but if you are
> trying to route to an address at the end of a long driveway, the
> router should tell you to go down the driveway. Tagging it as


If this really is true, then perhaps you should file a bug report.  If
I accurately map a residential gated community with access=private,
show the gates, then wouldn't that be more valuable to set what
expectations are required to get into the area.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/16842943#map=18/33.78757/-111.98892

> access=private would probably prevent that from happening in most
> routers. I would say access=destination might be more accurate however
> really I think data consumers should know what highway=service and

Who are these data consumers that you speak of?  If they are
freeloaders, I could careless about them.  One of shifts that I have
noticed over the years is that we appear to no longer care about what
mappers do or how we improve the ecosystem for mappers but I hear all
about data consumers.  The data consumers need to adapt to OSM and not
the other way around.

> service=driveway together mean and appropriately handle it without an
> explicit access tag.

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

[Talk-us] GPS Tracking and the Most Novel Use of OSM data that I have seen.

[Greg Morgan]

I had autoplay enabled on YouTube.  Somehow, I ended up listening to
this legal discussion on GPS Tracking.  It was one of the most
engaging discussions that I have heard on the surrounding issues.

Some of you may have used d3js.org for data presentation.  The iD
editor uses d3js to present OSM data for mapping.  In this case, data
was presented with the Unity game engine using OSM as a backdrop.  The
last two links have the point in time right before OSM is mentioned or
used.

Regards,
Greg

Note that there may be swearwords in the presentations.  Please don't
click on the links if that will offend you.

GPS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84Y8ZWHy1dY

Creepy Doll.
https://youtu.be/ubjuWqUE9wQ?t=1838

CouchDB, GeoCouch, OpenStreetMap
https://youtu.be/ubjuWqUE9wQ?t=2185

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] New JOSM RasterFiltersPlugin

[Greg Morgan]

On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 8:15 AM, Alan Bragg  wrote:

> Thanks Blake, When I went to the page
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM/Plugins
>
> RasterFilters was not listed. Even after refreshing the page.
>
> I'm glad you sent the link
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM/Plugins/RasterFilters
>
> Alan
>
> On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 10:14 AM, Blake Girardot 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Directions:
>>
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM/Plugins/RasterFilters
>>
>> Note it has a two step process, install the plugin, restart, go to
>> preferences and download the filters in the "Map project tab" (3rd from top
>> in mine, has a grid pattern). Clicking the "download" button there doesn't
>> have a visible effect, but you probably have to do it.
>>
>> After that it works as advertised now.
>>
>

Beyond what Blake said, here are two key phrases from the wiki page.

"Also after adding at least one layer you can find button *Choose Filter* in
the JOSM main window (Figure 2).
...
*"Note: if you added not raster but OSM layer the Choose Filters button
will be disabled.*

In practice that means clicking on, say, the MapBox layer, and making sure
that the little green check mark is on the same layer. Only then will the
Choose Filter icon be enabled so that you can add the filters to the
desired layer.

Regards,
Greg
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] TIGER tracing layer updated to 2015 release

[Greg Morgan]

On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 7:55 PM, Eric Fischer  wrote:

> Last week the US Census Bureau released the 2015 version of TIGER. This
> afternoon I updated the data in the set of tracing tiles that Mapbox hosts.
>
> As before, at zoom level 16 and up, it shows the complete TIGER streets,
> and at zoom levels 12 through 15, it shows TIGER minus dynamically
> subtracted OSM so you can more easily find TIGER streets that are missing
> in OSM.
>
> The tile URL has not changed, so if you are using iD or another editor
> that pulls from editor-imagery-index, you already have the new data. If
> not, you can manually enter the tile URL:
>
>
> https://a.tiles.mapbox.com/v4/enf.e0b8291e/{z}/{x}/{y}.png?access_token=pk.eyJ1IjoiZW5mIiwiYSI6IkNJek92bnMifQ.xn2_Uj9RkYTGRuCGg4DXZQ
>
>

I clicked on the link you provided and received:

{"message":"Not Found"}

Regards,
Greg
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Railway crossing challenge for MapRoulette

[Greg Morgan]

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 8:02 PM, Charlotte Wolter 
wrote:

>  Matijn,
>
> By the way, what is the difference between "crossing" and
> "level_crossing"?
>
>

I treat highway=crossing the same as railway=crossing.  That would be a
place where a horse, bike, skateboard, foot path, etc. would cross the
railway.  I also apply all the related highway=crossing tags to the
railway=crossing nodes.  I've used this mostly around light rail crossings.

There are also additional tags that could be added to a "level
crossing": "A level
crossing (where a road crosses a railway, usually with a gate and big
flashing traffic light)".
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:railway%3Dlevel_crossing
That would require additional tasks to survey the crossings.  Adding the
crossings would be a good first step for a survey phase.  Armchair mapping
any survey mapping can coexist!


>
>
> At 03:30 PM 7/7/2015, you wrote:
>
> Hey Mike —
>
> Crossings already present in OSM will not be excluded, but can be easily
> skipped over. In most cases you can see them on the rendered map tiles so
> no need for a round trip to the editor.
>
> Martijn van Exel
>
>

I see the why Martijn would be hard pressed to exclude crossings that are
already in the OSM.  He's using the Federal Railway Administration, FRA,
data as a punch list in this challenge.  Perhaps you can add additional
features to a crossing in this challenge, if you know that bells and
whistles exist at a crossing.


Greg
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Importing Tesla Superchargers

[Greg Morgan]

On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 4:11 PM, Charles Samuels 
wrote:

> On Monday, April 13, 2015 03:35:20 PM Bryce Nesbitt wrote:
> > Having done a few "up to dating" scripts:
> >
> > I recommend looking for nearby amenity=charging_station, not name=
> > Supercharger.
> > In fact you may want to make this even more "fuzzy", checking for either
> > tag.  And
> That might conflict with a nearby non-Tesla charger.
>
> > use name:Supercharger not name=Supercharger.
> What's the difference? I already use a case-insensitive substring search
> for
> supercharger.
>
> >
> > OSM mappers will often change things like a name tag.  While it is
> possibly
> > nobody will ever mess
> > with the data you left in OSM, but chances are periodically someone will
> > hand edit the nodes
> > you left.
>
>
Here's a supercharger with all the bells and whistles mapped out[1].
* The charging problem is all about current. The big old transformer that
supports a Tesla DC station was added to the north of the screen wall.
* The original node form Tesla was in the walled area.
* I use a single node for all the chargers that I have mapped including
Tesla. If a charging site has limited amps going to the vehicle, then the J
connector style can require a long time for a partial charge.  Hence, this
is not like a gas station where a single node is good enough.  For example,
an EV charger may be tied up for four hours in low amp settings.  Tesla is
changing the game with a 10 minute charge time.
* The real address on the site is 444 South Watson Road[2].  The addressing
authority did not send the address to the USPS so you will not find 444 as
a valid USPS address via address correcting software.  444 is a valid
Buckeye AZ address for emergency calls or for the utility company.  If the
address was submitted to USPS, then you'd receive a code saying that 444
was a valid address along with additional information saying that the USPS
will not deliver mail to that site.  444 is on the south side of the walled
area.
* The 416 address is for the Carl's Jr.  I have not added that photo to the
OSM wiki yet.  I am not sure if it would help.  Perhaps Carl's Jr. is the
operator/sponsor of the charger?  If so, then that would be a savvy
business move.  Sponsoring the Tesla charger may help Carl's Jr. compete
with the truck stops to the west of the location.  USPS would deliver mail
to the 416 address.
* I put the Buckeye Supercharger name on the industrial landuse that I
added to cover the switching cabinets.  All the addresses and names would
help someone find the location.  Nominatim has already picked up the
information.
* I used Key Pad Mapper 2 to record all the reference numbers on each
terminal.  It looks like there is significance to the As and Bs in use[3].
* I used an idea that I picked up from Bryce on his Duro repair stations.
I changed the original source tag to website. I added source as survey.
Let's say that you program sets the source tag to auto or the program's
name.  If a mapper takes the time add the detail, then your program could
use the survey tag as an indicator to discontinue the updates to the tags.
* Feel free to hack and whack on the nodes that I created.  It won't hurt
my feelers and I won't stop mapping if you do. The wiki page is a mess
right now[4].  I have found that it is a confusing topic to get straight as
I am not an EV vehicle driver.  I think there needs to be a US or North
America section of the page that has a focus on what is used here.  You all
can hack and whack on the wiki page too.
* One of the problems is that in a pinch, a regular RV socket can be used
to charge the vehicles.  That may mean that RV and EV tags could merge some
day.
* I'd encourage you to continue your efforts.  Once you have the Tesla
stations done, then you can try your hand at all the other chargers.  I
added a great deal of detail for a couple of SemaConnect Network chargers.
I personally wouldn't do that in the future.  Having an assisted editing
system like what your are trying to develop would be a great help to
enhance limited data that a mapper might include.  All the other chargers
require some sort of membership to a network unless the government is
pushing a free one[5].  Such a deal!  Spend $30K + on an EV and get free
parking at a basketball or baseball game.  ;-)

HTH,
Greg

[1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/30205831
[2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Cs_us_tesla_buckeye_charger.png
[3]
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/42481-How-does-a-Supercharger-work
[4] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dcharging_station
[5] http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3184125857
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] Importing Tesla Superchargers

[Greg Morgan]

Oh my goodness.  Once again we have the alleged notion that imports will
drive off mappers without examining any real data. If we look at the
Buckeye Charger we see that fredo_p, a A Hit-and-Run Mapper, added the
original node.  He's still a mapper. Theodin a German mapper added
something. AndiG88 another German mapper added something.  Finally njaard
touched the same node.  The German mappers did nothing different that what
njaard did.  They looked up that there were 8 charging ports on the Tesla
site.  I surveyed the site and see no problem with what has gone on with
this node.  The question I have is should there be eight nodes for each
station since one is required for each parking spot along with a
wall/building for the transformer where the address is located?  The name
issue may not be a factor since you can Google on either the address or
name.  Note that all the mappers involved including me the surveyor are
still mapping.  I am surprised that we did not loose fredo_p--last modifier
of 95 nodes, 16 ways and 0 relationships--with the mapper's first
experience of a node that does not render. I hope that we don't loose
njaard--last modifier of 2,900 nodes, 663 ways, and 30 relationships--over
a node still does not render with a cute little icon.  In may case, I lost
interest in mapping all EV chargers because there's no reward for mapping
them.  There was the reward of finding three of the four types of chargers
used in the US. There was the reward of understanding the problems with
making EV work. Sure the nodes are in the database but I do not experience
the reward of seeing the node on the map like a regular gas station node.
In my view it is not the importers that are killing mappers it is the
cartographers that only show a portion of what can be mapped.
https://www.google.com/search?q=mapbox+sudio+data+project&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=buckeye+arizona+tesla+charger
http://www.teslamotors.com/findus/location?place=buckeyesupercharger
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Cs_us_tesla_buckeye_charger.png
http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2776570644/history#map=19/33.44263/-112.55724
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/fredo_p
http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?fredo_p
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Theodin
http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?Theodin
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88
http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?AndiG88
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/njaard
http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?njaard

I am guessing that this will bounce because I am not on the import list.

HTH,
Greg


On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 5:33 PM, Greg Troxel  wrote:

>
> Charles Samuels  writes:
>
> > On Sunday, April 12, 2015 01:12:12 AM Andy Allan wrote:
> >> > Right now, if a tag doesn't match with supercharge.info, I overwrite
> >> > OSM's.
> >>
> >> Could you explain this a bit further? For example, if supercharge.info
> >> has capacity 6, and I correct this to capacity 8, does your script
> >> then overwrite my tag and change it back to the incorrect value?
> >
> > Correct. My intent is that I expect OSM to be no better than
> supercharge.info,
> > so for now it's easiest to just overwrite. Then on following runs of it,
> I
> > manually investigate the changes made in OSM and reconcile the
> differences.
>
> You may actually be right about the likelihood of correctness, and this
> may lead to an expected value of < 0.1 errors per year.  However,
> imports changing data entered by hand is something that crosses a
> cultural bright line, and I find it concerning that you're heading down
> that path.  I say that as someone who is usually much more on the
> pro-import side.
>
> To stay within OSM norms, the thing to do is leave the existing data
> alone, and publish a list someplace of mismatches.  It's fine to write
> to the person who added it and explain that there's a mismatch and ask
> if they are sure.
>
> The other notion in imports is to test  out the process before you do
> it.  Have you run the conflation code against the osm database, and how
> many cases are there where osm already has a charger station but the
> tags dont' match?
>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
>
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Am I doing this right? Houses w/ addresses

[Greg Morgan]

On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 6:35 PM, Harald Kliems  wrote:

> In areas with detached houses, the Android app Keypadmapper has worked
> pretty well for me. Once house numbers get too dense (worst case: Montreal,
> where each apartment in a duplex or triplex will have it's own house
> number) it starts getting tricky assigning the number to the correct
> building. And yeah, Mapillary imagery can definitely be useful for address
> data.
>

Keypad mapper is wonderful because you are not as conspicuous when using
pen and paper.  I've tried using ranges were I drop the leading two digits
while entering five digit numbers.  There's a bunch of post processing when
you actually enter the data.  With any technique that I use, I always feel
like Billy in the family circus.  It is amazing where people put
addresses.  Commercial buildings can be the worst case to try and find the
number.

http://familycircus.com/comics/april-5-2015/
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

[Talk-us] Better Than OSM was Your opinion about SOTM US

[Greg Morgan]

Alex,

I really like this "Better Than OSM" map.  The very accidental name has
that Missouri state "Show me" impact.  Show me where the newer TIGER is
better than OSM and I'll show you where OSM is still better than TIGER.
The accidental genus of the map comes in the last example.  With these
ideas in mind:

I found this area from area from the magenta/blue TIGER map that MapBox
produced several years ago.  Back then the magenta/blue line stood out.
Here I said let's see if TIGER caught up to me.  In this case, TIGER has
improved but there is a yellow line replacing the magenta/blue line.  The
interesting building and parking lot pattern really shows up nicely in this
map.  Both the discovery and mapping of geometric patterns in OSM has that
Bob Ross "happy little animals" affect on me.  ;-)  I spent additional time
improving the area based on the perceived challenge laid down by the map.
https://api.tiles.mapbox.com/v4/lxbarth.647bc246/page.html?access_token=pk.eyJ1IjoibHhiYXJ0aCIsImEiOiJFVXdYcUlvIn0.bbaHTEWlnAwGgyVwJngMdQ#18/33.28937/-111.94653

Here are two missing apartment/condo like areas that show up with the map.
The blank and gray blob on the OSM main map provide no real indication that
there's something to improve upon.  TIGER is better in this case because
OSM doesn't have the additional detail that TIGER shows.
https://api.tiles.mapbox.com/v4/lxbarth.647bc246/page.html?access_token=pk.eyJ1IjoibHhiYXJ0aCIsImEiOiJFVXdYcUlvIn0.bbaHTEWlnAwGgyVwJngMdQ#19/33.28999/-111.88173
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/33.28999/-111.88173
https://api.tiles.mapbox.com/v4/lxbarth.647bc246/page.html?access_token=pk.eyJ1IjoibHhiYXJ0aCIsImEiOiJFVXdYcUlvIn0.bbaHTEWlnAwGgyVwJngMdQ#19/33.29724/-111.94407
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/33.29724/-111.94407

The "Better Than OSM" map flags this next area yet we can see that OSM is
better than TIGER in this case.  Here is an example of the challenge that
you face.  How would you turn off these yellow lines that fall between the
"real" roads in this sardine subdivision?  This area feels like one of the
scale problems that TIGER has.  It could also be that TIGER staff have not
had a chance to clean up these kinds-of lines.
https://api.tiles.mapbox.com/v4/lxbarth.647bc246/page.html?access_token=pk.eyJ1IjoibHhiYXJ0aCIsImEiOiJFVXdYcUlvIn0.bbaHTEWlnAwGgyVwJngMdQ#21/33.29915/-111.92984

Here's another TIGER cleanup issue for TIGER staff.  However, the "Better
Than OSM" chanllege pointed me to a way that needed to be turned into a
dual carriage way.
https://api.tiles.mapbox.com/v4/lxbarth.647bc246/page.html?access_token=pk.eyJ1IjoibHhiYXJ0aCIsImEiOiJFVXdYcUlvIn0.bbaHTEWlnAwGgyVwJngMdQ#20/33.24150/-111.84551

This next area is what I call a sub-prime rate subdivision.  The area may
have stalled right before or during the sub-prime mortgage rate debacle.  I
cannot always tell if TIGER staff received the plat information right after
bankruptcy. I wished MapBox had a version of satellite that would stop at
zoom 17 and let me over zoom the imagery to 18 and below.  Does anyone know
of a way to make over zooming of MapBox Satellite work in JOSM with the
current MapBox configuration?
https://api.tiles.mapbox.com/v4/lxbarth.647bc246/page.html?access_token=pk.eyJ1IjoibHhiYXJ0aCIsImEiOiJFVXdYcUlvIn0.bbaHTEWlnAwGgyVwJngMdQ#19/33.24192/-111.83822

Whereas an earlier example had TIGER yellow "pointers" to an area concealed
by OSM one color blobs, the "Better Than OSM" also points to areas that are
a tie: both maps are equally bad because there is missing data.  These
large cavernous areas really attract my eye while panning and zooming the
map.  One feature that would be helpful is a wispy thin building outline.
I don't know what the exact ratio would be but If you are using 9 for a
road width, then 2 may be that wispy thin building outline value. Adding
too many additional features would diminish the impact of the map.  As a
volunteer, I might have time to get lost in a detailed building.  At other
times, I might try to knock out a few nodes while waiting for the
carpooler.  The building outline might be a helpful gauge for the type of
project that I can fit into the time constraints of the moment.  I have
been using this map as my primary launching point since you introduced it.
https://api.tiles.mapbox.com/v4/lxbarth.647bc246/page.html?access_token=pk.eyJ1IjoibHhiYXJ0aCIsImEiOiJFVXdYcUlvIn0.bbaHTEWlnAwGgyVwJngMdQ#18/33.24546/-111.84102
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/33.24546/-111.84102
https://api.tiles.mapbox.com/v4/lxbarth.647bc246/page.html?access_token=pk.eyJ1IjoibHhiYXJ0aCIsImEiOiJFVXdYcUlvIn0.bbaHTEWlnAwGgyVwJngMdQ#18/33.28802/-111.88678
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/33.28829/-111.88644

Thanks,
Greg


On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 12:37 AM, Greg Morgan 
wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 9:11 PM, Alex Barth  wrote:
>
>>
>> O

Re: [Talk-us] Facts about the world

[Greg Morgan]

On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 10:04 AM, Minh Nguyen 
wrote:

> On 2015-04-03 22:25, Russ Nelson wrote:
>
>> Greg Morgan writes:
>>   > * In my case, TIGER isn't all the that bad.
>>
>> In some NY counties, TIGER is very good. In other places it is like
>> Stevie Wonder was in charge of quality control. What I've heard is
>> that the maps they were digitizing off were of MUCH lower resolution
>> than we have available now.
>>
>
> I wonder if it was even about the resolution in some counties. It's as if
> the data was traced off a cartogram, or maybe reconstructed from a table of
> intersections.


I think TIGER is genius.  I think of TIGER like the walking papers
project.  You print out a piece of paper and mark a few Xs and Os on it.
You go back and record the real data.  TIGER serves its primary purpose:
collecting census data by getting boots on the ground in the right area.  I
base my thoughts/opinion on some of the trailer courts, retirement
communities, and travel trailer parks around AZ.  They were so out of
scale.  It felt like that is what could fit on an 8 by 11.5 sized paper
that could be carried by a census worker.

The intersection table ideal feels right.  There have been a number places
where I cut a street at an intersection.  Where that intersection was good
enough for a census worker, it may drive a person crazy that is trying to
use the same data for a visual representation of an area in a car.

Resolution is another good idea. From my experience with Yahoo imagery, I
like to over zoom when I map.  My node placement is vastly different as
zoom 17 verses 1.25m in JOSM.  With MapBox Satellite, I click on the slider
in JOSM.  I can use the arrow keys to over zoom layer 17 down to 50.1m
before I get to the same Bing looking layer.  Woot! Woot!  I just ran
across this video last week. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05_eABTrXq8
 It is a very interesting process that MapBox uses to solve many problems
with imagery.

Regards,
Greg
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Facts about the world

[Greg Morgan]

On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 11:19 AM, Martijn van Exel 
wrote:

> It would be nice if we could have SotM US this June be a venue to dispel
> some of the assumptions that seem to exist abroad about the U.S
> OpenStreetMap community. Reducing the U.S. community to a bunch of couch
> potatoes who are more concerned with mapping remote places and importing
> data is not only inaccurate but also disrespectful to all of us who
> tirelessly work to improve our neighborhoods and towns based on good ol'
> ground surveying and local knowledge.
>
> Perhaps we, as the U.S. chapter, play a role in creating or sustaining
> these false assumptions? Do we need to do a better job highlighting really
> good local mapping efforts? I would welcome opinions and ideas.
>
>>
>>
As I recall Martijn, there were a number of videos from SOTM US 2013ish
that laid out the issue. It is the size of the US project that complicates
the issue.  By the time your talk came around, you stated the same thing
once again.  By the way, I am so thankful that the US Conference records
these sessions.  I have not been able to attend but I try and view the
videos every once in awhile.

I'd have you focus on something else than trying to dispel the assumptions
about the US.  I have the sense; it is what I have observed; no mater what
is done in the US, we did not do it like the Europeans so it cannot be
good.  That's my perception of their view.

One of the most interesting things I saw from 2013 was the progress report
and the meta tile report that some of the report was based on.  I had to go
look at what some of the mappers had accomplished in these regions.  It was
so cool to see all those buildings that were imported in Chicago.  That was
a major accomplishment.  Arizona has this problematic issue about trying to
make money off their GIS data.  Sadly, there's no cost recovery even if
they think that there is.  Moreover, there is no building data set that I
know of in AZ that could match what Chicago cataloged.  The Chicago area
inspired me to trace as many buildings as I can.  One of the cool areas
that I worked on was the Scottsdale Air Park
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/33.62087/-111.91182 .  Thanks for the
inspiration Ian!  I got bored.  I moved on to other areas.  However, I
always look for those nice challenging buildings to map.

One of the Carolina meta tiles also inspired me
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/254964599#map=19/35.84273/-78.66457 .
Wow.  Look at that!  The mapper added driveways too.  I saw a number of tag
combinations that I never thought of because of these meta tiles. I
actually setup a daily import to generate my own meta tile report.  I was
shooting for x number of nodes in each tile of the meta tile.  I found out
that Arizona has a number of zero meta tiles.  I also saw that $user in the
East Valley had a number of very dense tiles but no 100K meta tile yet.  As
for me, I got past 50,000 nodes in one meta tile but no 100K meta tiles
yet.  There's so many interesting things to see and map that when I achieve
boredom with an area, I find another interesting area to map.

I always try to think of the glass of orange juice as half full or half
empty.  Either way their's room for Vodka!  So Fredrick builds a tool to
solve a rendering problem.[1]  It is not just the US where a "certain image
is painted".  The resulting discussion sounds like a Ford verses Chevy
debate __to_me__.  The debate goes like this, if your Chevy has more nodes
than my Ford, I have to find some vault with the Chevy.  The opportunity to
see a Craig's List or Rand McNally use OSM without all the great or small
contributions would not have been possible with the efforts of OSM
mappers.  The sea of change that OSM has brought is just amazing to me.

Regards,
Greg


[1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2013-May/067194.html
http://fred.dev.openstreetmap.org/density/
http://fred.dev.openstreetmap.org/density/2012.html

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2013-May/067136.html

Because it means that this is probably dead data without a community behind
it to fix problems and to do updates.

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2013-May/067138.html

Endless story. That's the "anti-imports" theory : a map looking
"complete" does not call for new contributions. Which means that we
should gum out the map from time to time just to build a new community
of contributors when the previous one consider the job done or is
exhausted ;-)

Pieren

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2013-May/067142.html
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Facts about the world

[Greg Morgan]

On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 2:32 PM, Eleanor Tutt  wrote:

> Side note relevant to this conversation: I would love to hear from mappers
> in the US who are collecting data "on the ground" - either by themselves or
> by organizing mapathons and building community.  I can think of quite a few
> examples, but I'm interested in hearing more about how and why people
> contribute to the map.  I am awful at documenting and sharing my own work
> (I'm trying to get better), and I imagine there are others like me who are
> mapping US towns & not talking about it yet.
>
> You can write me at elea...@openstreetmap.us.  :)
>
> Eleanor,

This is a great question.
* I use a combination of approaches.   In my case, TIGER isn't all the that
bad.  Yes, I have done my share of TIGER fix-up.  I enjoy that the names
are already on the way.  I just needed to straighten the roads.
* I have used techniques like paper/pin and walking papers.  The thing that
I did not like about the paper method was how conspicuous the paper made me.
* Pictures have been a great tool also.  The pictures provide a great
perspective during a mapping session.  However, the picture taking can make
you conspicuous.
* My favorite application is keypad mapper2 and not version 3.  The tool
provides a GPS trace and .osm file.  Sure I pick up a few addresses but I
use the letters to mean something else.  "h" might be hydrant during one
walk.  "e" might be one of those blue emergency lights.  Search and replace
in JOSM lets me turn those addr:housenumber=* tags into other features.  In
some cases, I don't even get the data into OSM.  It is more important for
me to get out and walk.  What's great about keypad mapper2 is that I can
walk the same area over and over again and see something new--it reduces
the boredom. Keypad mapper2 is not over engineered.  I can keep the walking
pace up with this app verses waiting for several screens to load before I
have the right tag as I have experienced with other phone based apps.
Social engineering keeps a low profile.  I can walk by a house and say,
"Isn't the weather great."  The person may be left with the idea, "Oh yet
another one of those that can't walk and text at the same time."  ;-)
* I tossed the pawn shop Garmin GPS.  The Garmin was great for a bunch of
important roads in OSM.  What I found is that GPS has accuracy issues.  I
expected both the cell phone and the GPS to be close when used together.
But they were not.
* I am so thankful for all the imports.  I find things that I did not know
about the world.  The import data makes me want to go out and explore the
world.  I found an excuse to explore one of these nodes two months ago. I
picked up one of those Duro bike stations.  However, I was really
interested in a GNIS point that was imported [1][2].  I did not know the
significance of all of the dams in the metro Phoenix before I started
mapping in OSM.  Most of the dam POIs are easy to understand.  This node
was a real puzzler.  They actually had to build AZ LOOP 202 over the dam.
The contrast between living in a forest watershed and desert watershed has
been outstanding.  All the dams and storm improvements manage a watershed
that has nothing to hold back the moisture. [3]

I am so thankful for all choices that we have after 10 years of OSM.

[1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/359276489/history
[2] http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/328678925
[3]
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=894&dat=19950209&id=gScOIBAJ&sjid=un0DIBAJ&pg=1793,1166620&hl=en
It looks like the flood control district site is down right now.  There was
some more interesting information there.
There is an interesting story behind the dam.  The name does not mean what
a modern interpretation brings.

Regards,
Greg
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] perceptions of OHM and other similar projects

[Greg Morgan]

On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 6:17 AM, Richard Welty 
wrote:

> so one of the things from recent discussion that concerns me are
> perceptions out there about projects parallel to OSM that are designed
> to complement it, specifically OHM. here is an outline of the view from
> OHM, and i'm interesting in understanding why some treat the whole
> project so dismissively (note that i'm a little bit of a late comer to OHM,
> i've been following it with interest since it started but only just
> recently
> started contributing directly.)
>
> OHM was created because of the perceived desire to start handling
> historic spatial data and characterize temporal aspects of it. the whole
> idea is that we accept that OSM is not a good place for this data, so
> why not create such a place?
>
>

>
> i think the long term future of OSM will probably involve more
> OHM like projects to supplement OSM. my question is how will
> the core OSM community treat them? right now it seems very
> mixed.
>
>
If you are asking for an opinion, then this is the kind-of thing that is a
detriment to OSM.  Whereas I try to use OpenSeaMap tags where I can for the
limited features that sea map applies, I won't go out of my way to add data
to OSH.  My main concern is that OSH defuses mapping resources that are
already sparse in the US.  That we couldn't find a set of tags to keep the
data in the main OSM database is part of the problems of OSM as a project.
There's still plenty to do but OSM the project is moribund.

Regards,
Greg
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Moving historic railroad ways from OSM to OpenHistoricalMap

[Greg Morgan]

On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 2:07 AM, Minh Nguyen 
wrote:

> On 2015-03-31 00:36, Frederik Ramm wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On 03/31/2015 08:04 AM, Natfoot wrote:
>>
>>> There is so many situations where to his naked eye on the ground he may
>>> not be able to see it.  To a person like myself I can still find the
>>> signs on the earth of where the railroad once was.
>>>
>>
>> Then map the signs that *are*, but not the railroad which - as you
>> correctly say - once *was*.
>>
>
> For many rights of way, the main remaining feature is a greenway cutting
> across farmland -- something you can easily armchair map, even. Personally,
> I'd rather map that ROW as a railway=abandoned way than as a natural=wood
> area, just as I avoid mapping roads as areas. On the ground, meanwhile,
> you'd tend to find no trespassing signs on railbanked ROWs, no?



https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/330316713

Yep!  Mapped that back in March 2015.  These are significant navigation
features, if it rendered.  The desert will preserve these features for
years.  It is also a feature that should not be moved into OSH.  Perhaps
copied but not moved.

Regards,
Greg
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Tesla Supercharger import

[Greg Morgan]

On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 11:40 PM, Charles Samuels 
wrote:

>
> I now have the software and the data to do a complete import of every
> global
> Tesla Supercharger station.
>  lon='-121.565350'>
>  v='http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger/Gilroy' />
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

I surveyed this node.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2776570644

I see nothing wrong with what you have done.  You've built upon what
another mapper had already added.  I was so disappointed that another
mapper beat me to the punch. ;-)  Being the slacker that I am, I have
pictures of the Buckeye AZ site to update the wili page
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dcharging_station.
However, I have not added the pictures yet.  The debate I've had with
myself on mapping these nodes is one or many?  Each Tesla charger takes up
one parking space.  Each charger has an individual reference node.  Blink
and SemaCharge also have a unique reference id per charger.  In the case of
Telsa, the address is actually on the actual 4x8 ish foot electrical walled
off box.  The node was already on the map and that you updated is near
where the box is.  In some respects all this does not matter, because a
person driving a Tesla could find the location...well if it rendered.
Perhaps the next step is to put in a bug report for the main OSM map.  The
challenge is to make a cute icon that would also take into other kinds of
chargers in the rest of the world.

I took notice of what Telsa is trying to accomplish.  The electronic car is
just a toy of the urban environment and is not practical as a regular
vehicle until Tesla came along.  Part of the charging station map almost
looks like the history US route 66.  It looks like you can almost make it
across America now.
http://www.teslamotors.com/findus#/bounds/35.5722872795,-107.2834384999,31.259882347870708,-117.8303134999?search=supercharger&name=us&place=buckeyesupercharger

You still may want to bring along a Swiss Army knife set of adapters just
to make sure that you don't get stranded.
http://shop.teslamotors.com/collections/model-s-charging-adapters


Regards,
Greg
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] user damages administrative boundaries around Rapid City

[Greg Morgan]

On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 3:13 PM, arch_a...@t-online.de <
arch_a...@t-online.de> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I've detected a user who damages administrative boundaries around Rapid
> City. I've tried to contact the user but I got no reaction. I've told the
> mapper that iD editor is inappropriate, as it has no built in validator but
> he didn't stop the edits.
>
> I want to ask someone from the US to take care of the case and to involve
> the Data Working Group if necessary.




> There may be also other damaged objects.
>

http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?gm360st

Pascal says: 302 project days; 117 mapping days; ... the last modifier of
28k nodes using Potlach and iD using 3,936 change sets.  In my book,
gm360st is a valuable young mapping resource more so than a couple of
broken polygons.  The last thing that I would want to do is involve the
Data Working Group.  The bar has been purposely lowered to include and
attract new mappers via the iD editor.  iD is gm360st's editor of choice.
There are a number of tools to correct these issues.  At this point in time
I wouldn't even follow the mapper and correct the problems.

The real question is how do you gently grow a young mapper like this
without alienating the valuable resource?

Regards,
Greg
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Your opinion about SOTM US

[Greg Morgan]

On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 9:11 PM, Alex Barth  wrote:

>
> On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 3:40 AM, Greg Morgan 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for another TIGER tool.  I used it to look at some areas and made
>> changes.  The map reminds me of another map that MapBox produced several
>> years ago using a slider tool.
>> Useful features:
>> * Timely updates.  The old slider map was never updated and lost value
>> after a couple of edits.  Oh! I see that my edits showed up.  The problem
>> is how do you remove the yellow TIGER data?
>>
>
> Yea. this is on my far-out backlog. A live (or daily) updated TIGER
> diff map, ideally at first showing only major roads.
>
>
>> * iD, Potlach, JOSM, remote control features.
>>
>
> What do you mean by that?
>


Often I will go to the OSM site to look around.  If I see something
interesting, then I will use the edit menu option to started editing the
area in JOSM..   I am not sure what your plans are with the tool. If the
tool only has a web browser interface like the current version, then having
an "edit in" drop down feature would be really useful. Since there are few
major visual clues in this great low contrast map, I find it hard locate
the same area in JOSM when I switch from web browser to JOSM.

Perhaps I am experiencing beta blues?  I found the secret hand shake to use
the map in JOSM as a tracing layer:  tms[21]:https://{switch:a,b,c}.
tiles.mapbox.com/v4/lxbarth.647bc246/{zoom}/{x}/{y}.png?access_token=pk.eyJ1IjoibHhiYXJ0aCIsImEiOiJFVXdYcUlvIn0.bbaHTEWlnAwGgyVwJngMdQ
<http://tiles.mapbox.com/v4/lxbarth.647bc246/%7Bzoom%7D/%7Bx%7D/%7By%7D.png?access_token=pk.eyJ1IjoibHhiYXJ0aCIsImEiOiJFVXdYcUlvIn0.bbaHTEWlnAwGgyVwJngMdQ>
If this is your ultimate design, then I am sure my "edit in" drop down
feature request would be puzzling.


Yup. We're cautious and trust the TIGER data only where it coincides w/
> imagery and there we trace off the imagery and don't just take the TIGER
> data. Sometimes you run into situations where you just don't know whether
> TIGER's right or the imagery (a lot of imagery is pretty old on Bing) - in
> these cases we just don't touch the data, maybe drop a note.
>
> There are also many places where TIGER is just flat out behind - an
> opportunity for community and government to work more closely together.
>


I spent some quality time editing with the map on Friday and Saturday.
There were some great improvements that I made in OSM while using your
Better than OSM map.  In practice, I had Bing, MapBox Satellite, Tiger
2012, Tiger 2014, and your Better than OSM as background imagery. Between
ITOWorld Tiger Fixup [1], Better than OSM, and Battle Grid,  Better than
OSM comes in second place to the ITOWorld map.  Both ITOWorld and your map
provide me more precision than Battle Grid.  That's just my way of working
and preferences.

1. Better than OSM made me reexamine areas that I thought were mostly
complete. One of the issues I have with ITOWorld and Battle Grid is that
the colors can obscure single roads that have not been reviewed.   I found
that Better than OSM threw all those issues in my face in the area that I
was editing. The same yellow at all zoom levels is also a plus.  Not sizing
the line width between the highway=* tags is also a plus.  The simple
styling made me see all issues clearly.

2. I needed the other two TIGER maps to add missing names for some roads.
The yellow contrast is great and keeps the map simple but is missing the
names.

3. I concur about TIGER being behind.  Some of the yellow lines where
"stray" roads that had not been cleaned up in the TIGER data.  The "stray"
lines really did not point to where TIGER was better than OSM.

4. Since some of these "stray" roads do not touch other OSM roads, I don't
know how you would "turn off" the yellow TIGER line once OSM had been fixed
or that TIGER data had been determined to be a false positive.  If feels
like you would have to have a tiger:reviewed="yes" interface or something
like what Keepright uses to turn off the "stray" roads in Better than OSM
map.  Perhaps some sort of attribute can be kept in the "flagging" data.
You could then pass the information on to the government as you note in the
community and government working closer with each other comment.

5. I found that painting OSM highways white without bridges or tunnels an
issue.  I went to these areas thinking that the there was a problem because
there were yellow lines in the area too.  I found the bridge and moved on.
There may be some other data to add to the white OSM layer but I am not
sure what that would be right now.

Thanks for the tool.  I am not sure how long it will be available but I did
find it useful for a number editing tasks.

Regards,
Greg

[1] http://www.itoworld.com/map/162?lon=-112.09148&lat=33.53444&zoom=11
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Boundaries and verifiability (was Re: Retagging hamlets in the US)

[Greg Morgan]

On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 2:04 PM, Minh Nguyen 
wrote:

> tl;dr: I'm against a blanket rule when it comes to administrative
> boundaries. They're really nuanced, and so should we.
>
> On 2015-03-22 04:32, Serge Wroclawski wrote:
>
>> Imagine if Bob and Alice conflict on where a neighborhood boundary is
>> inside OSM. The issue escalates to an edit war and the DWG is called
>> in to resolve the conflict. Let's say that Frank is our DWG member.
>> How is Frank supposed to resolve the conflict between Alice and Bob?
>> Often neighborhoods don't have administrative recognition, or
>> administrative recognition is not in alignment with the people. I
>> imagine this would be especially an issue with neighborhoods where
>> lots of the under-represented populations live.
>>
>
> This is an important consideration. As I mentioned in a footnote earlier,
> even a city with strong neighborhood organization can have boundary
> disputes. However, the problem exists for administrative boundaries in
> general, all the way up to admin_level=2 boundaries that cut right across
> ethnic fault lines.
>
> My point was that we should map neighborhood boundaries in cities where
> doing so requires little editorial judgment, thanks to signage, distinctive
> lamp posts, etc. And we are quite clear (via the tag value
> "administrative") that this isn't the only way by which a community can be
> delimited. As numerous threads have pointed out, the USPS has very
> different ideas of location (ZIP codes), but that's OK.
>
> When it comes to all our discussions around *administrative* boundaries, I
> like this two-point test as a rule of thumb:
>
> 1. Are people or property governed differently on one side versus the
> other?
>
> 2. Is this distinction observable on the ground?
>
> Municipalities generally pass both points. Congressional districts pass #1
> but not #2. CDPs generally fail both. School districts can be observed, but
> not with the granularity required for mapping a boundary. City
> neighborhoods may pass one, both, or neither. Maybe all the locals you
> interview can agree on the name of a neighborhood but not its shape -- in
> which case it should be nothing more than a POI.
>
> Which brings me to Serge's other point:
>
>  First, there are a growing number of people who believe that
>> administrative data is very useful, but breaks OSM's "ground
>> observable" rule. That is, someone who is present on the ground should
>> be able to observe the data in OSM. It's usually not possible to do
>> that with administrative boundaries.
>>
>
> SteveA has responded more forcefully on this point, and so have I in the
> past. [1] Fortunately, Alice and Bob's disagreement sounds pretty
> clear-cut. If the city didn't go through the trouble of demarcating any
> part of the boundary in some way, perhaps the general public shouldn't
> expect OSM to reproduce their two neighborhoods' boundaries at all. But I
> see no reason why such a decision would impact boundaries with very
> different characteristics.
>
>
>
tl;dr: I'm against blanket rules especially when they don't reflect the
realities of the world or how far we have come in ten years.  These rules
prevent progress and new ways of thinking about solutions.  Imagine the
changes OSM, OpenLayers, Leafet, MapBox have made.  The ESRI rule said that
we shouldn't do it that way.  You should spend large amounts of money to do
GIS things. Based on my ESRI analogy, the "ground observable rule" feels
like using ArcGIS Desktop to do mapping.  Is that a reality anymore?  In
actuality, the OSM and ESRI way complement each other and can be used
together.

1. Every time this boundary debate or accuracy debate comes up, I image
that I am supposed to have $20,000 of GPS equipment[1]; post process the
data so that it is accurate; before I dare put the data in OSM.

2. To quote Richard Fairhurst, "Seriously, OSM in the [England] s still way
beyond broken.  You can open it at any random location and the map is just
__fictional__. Here are two random examples "bing;OS StreetView"  [2] "shape
is approximate. Needs proper survey as mostly built after current BING
imagery date" [3]  I thought Bing was so bad that it is broken.  What is
happening with this "growing number of people" is they say or imply that
England, the birth place of OSM, is the bee's knees for accuracy because it
was surveyed the old fashioned way.  I find no difference in these two
examples in England than adding an approximate area in the US based on a
subdivision or some other locally named area.

3. It is my belief and experience that the "ground observable rule" is
something that only applies to Europe or older metropolitan areas.
There's a number of times that I have read on the US list that either the
signs are missing, stolen, or never posted.  One of the reasons I map what
I do is because the signs are missing.  I am curios what river or wash I
just drove over.  It is not posted.  I had to go to the US government sites
to find the 

Re: [Talk-us] Retagging hamlets in the US

[Greg Morgan]

On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 7:45 AM, Bryan Housel  wrote:

> I wouldn’t.  The USPS doesn’t recognize it, so mail can not be delivered
> there.  There are no signs either.
>

The USPS is not an always a good choice.


> I did some googling to see if it is a historical name, but all the results
> are spam (“Best plumber in Benders Corner, NJ!”)
> Nobody around here knows what it is.
>
> I’m just going to remove it and close out the note.
>

Yet another reason I cannot eat my own dog food.  Here's the case where
finding the right polygon for a POI would be a useful or just leave it
alone.  I have to ask how hard did you really search for Bender's Corner?
OSM is not a respresentation of a legal subdivisions, acessor parcel
numbers and the like.  However, having a way for a person to search for
Bender's Corner; use OSM to find it on the map; and perhaps route to the
area would be a useful feature!   Now OSM is the only map where you cannot
locate Bender's Corner.  It looks like it might be a nice area.

http://berkeley-heights-real-estate.com/home-sales-berkeley-heights-nj-new-jersey/
"110 Diamond Hill Rd Benders Corner $299,000 $295,000 63 01/02/2013"

http://www.tripmondo.com/united-states/new-jersey/benders-corner/attractions-in-benders-corner/
http://www.city-data.com/nbmaps/neigh-Berkeley-Heights-New-Jersey.html
http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/benders-corner-nj/07974/weather-forecast/2174854


http://www.weichert.com/search/realestate/SearchResults.aspx?hood=16925&view=map
Copyright © 2015 Garden State Multiple Lis ting Service, L.L.C. All rights
reserved.


>
>
>
>
> > On Mar 18, 2015, at 3:15 PM, Bryce Nesbitt  wrote:
> >
> > Would you put "bender's corner" on a map today?
>


Yes!  Bender's Corner is worth a name search to someone.



>
> > If the barrier to cleaning is too great, not enough cleaning will happen.
> >
> > ___
> > Talk-us mailing list
> > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Your opinion about SOTM US

[Greg Morgan]

On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 6:56 PM, Alex Barth  wrote:

>
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 8:00 PM, Mike Thompson 
> wrote:
>
>>  The editor visits a site which accesses the JOSM remote
>>> control protocol. They fix up the TIGER date and indicate "Yes, I'm
>>> done" or "Needs more work", and after a couple of Yes votes, it gets
>>> taken out of rotation.
>>>
>> Sounds similar to the HOT OSM Tasking Manager?
>>
>
> Yeah, that's just setting up a HOT tasking manager right? Except the HOT
> tasking manager will probably choke on one half hour tasks for all of US :)
>
> Here's a map showing where TIGER is better than OSM:
>
> https://api.tiles.mapbox.com/v4/lxbarth.647bc246/page.html?access_token=pk.eyJ1IjoibHhiYXJ0aCIsImEiOiJFVXdYcUlvIn0.bbaHTEWlnAwGgyVwJngMdQ#5/39.724/-99.360
>
>
> Alex,

Thanks for another TIGER tool.  I used it to look at some areas and made
changes.  The map reminds me of another map that MapBox produced several
years ago using a slider tool.
Useful features:
* Timely updates.  The old slider map was never updated and lost value
after a couple of edits.  Oh! I see that my edits showed up.  The problem
is how do you remove the yellow TIGER data?
* iD, Potlach, JOSM, remote control features.

Interesting problems:
* The Census staff got the news of "sub-prime rate" subdivisions.  These
were plated but are still farmland.  It is too early to try and map the
subdivision.
* I added a "sub-prime rate" subdivision that had the grading in place with
construction tags.  The existing Tiger layers provided the names.
* I found some areas that had explosive growth.  I recall adding the areas
because of interesting buildings, etc.  The TIGER data still shows roads
that have been removed via new development.  For example a new commercial
area has yellow TIGER roads going through a building.
*  The false positives that I saw were related to "new construction"--well
it is several years old now.  An area was developed.  All the existing
roads were removed and folded into the new development. The yellow lines
remaining were, say, between the secondary road and the first road of the
subdivision.  The yellow road may have been the original alignment of the
secondary or possibly a farm road.

HTH,
Greg
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Retagging hamlets in the US

[Greg Morgan]

On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 2:58 PM, Richard Weait  wrote:

> My initial reaction to any automated edit is to break out in a rash.
>

I don't have the same reaction.  A long time ago I added building=entrance
to buildings.  That tag was deprecated in favor of entrance=* at some
point.  A mapper comes along and changes building=entrance to entrance=main
with a script.  I was about to send the mapper a thank you because he saved
me a bunch of time, when his work was backed out.  So there I am left
making the same changes manually that the script had already made.  My
manual edits added no additional value to what the script had already
accomplished other than wasting my time.  I could have worked on other more
important issues.


>
> 3) New mapper fixes the BadHamlet and starts mapping their favourite
> restaurants, bowling alleys and coffee shops.
>

This is a great idea but I believe that you have the experience backwards.
I can only speak for myself but as a new mapper but I had no interesting in
fixing things.  I mapped features of interest or where I found the most
rewards.  I didn't start "fixing" issues until I had a great deal of
experience.  In addition, I think some of these hamlets might require more
research than a new mapper would be willing to stomach.  I believe that you
might just run the new mapper off.

Regards,
Greg
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Weigh stations on Interstates

[Greg Morgan]

On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 11:10 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer <
dieterdre...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> 2015-03-16 17:33 GMT+01:00 Harald Kliems :
>
>> In continuing mapping destination tag on highways based on Mapillary
>> imagery, I've come across the problem of how to tag weigh stations on
>> Interstate highways (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weigh_station). I
>> haven't found anything in the wiki, and I don't know enough how they work
>> to come up with reasonable tagging.
>>
>
> For those weighing stations I'd see them as a bigger object with the scale
> just being a part of it (if I understand that correctly), could be
> something like amenity or highway=weighing_station
>
>
I've used the amenity=weighbridge for weigh stations and "truck scales" at
farms and, say, quarries.   weighbridge was odd for may American thinking.
That may be the reason that it is hard to find in the OSM wiki.  The tag
page has a list of variations.  The page also wonders if the feature was
ever voted on.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dweighbridge
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_Features/Truck_scale
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_Features/Truck_scale

HTH,
Greg
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] For comment: import of amenity=bicycle_repair_stations

[Greg Morgan]

Bryce,

One of six of the ASU Dero stations have been adjusted. I went to the end
of the east valley for other survey activity.  I adjusted the Dero station
at the ASU Polytech campus.  This station was in ASU gold.  I might be able
to adjust the others during the week.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3345300838 .  The total trip took 9:15
hours and 168 miles!  Man has the east valley grown.

Regards,
Greg



On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 1:01 AM, Bryce Nesbitt  wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 3:36 PM, Greg Morgan 
> wrote:
> > On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 2:23 PM, Bryce Nesbitt 
> wrote:
> > > On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 5:04 PM, Greg Morgan 
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for sharing your mapping project.
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Greg
> > >
> > > Greg;
> > > There are five locations shown on the Arizona State University Tempe
> campus.
> > > Could you ground truth those?
> >
> > I'll find an excuse to get out that way over the weekend.   One is way
> out there at the Polytechnic campus.
>
> I uploaded the Arizona State University points to get you hunting :-).
>
> Note that at the Tempe campus, my data shows four stations, the map shows
> three:
> http://www.asu.edu/parking/pdf/bike-map.pdf
> I added a matching map note at:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/315164
>
> The odd thing about mapping bike repair stations is that a huge
> fraction of them are findable via google in the form of press
> releases(!).  Often there's no map, just a list of places in the text
> of the press release, and perhaps the name of the Boy Scout who
> organized the project ;-).
>
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] For comment: import of amenity=bicycle_repair_stations

[Greg Morgan]

On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 2:23 PM, Bryce Nesbitt  wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 5:04 PM, Greg Morgan 
wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for sharing your mapping project.
>> Regards,
>> Greg
>
>
> Greg;
> There are five locations shown on the Arizona State University Tempe
campus.
> Could you ground truth those?

I'll find an excuse to get out that way over the weekend. [?]  One is way
out there at the Polytechnic campus.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] For comment: import of amenity=bicycle_repair_stations

[Greg Morgan]

On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 8:50 PM, Greg Morgan  wrote:

>> How accurate was the pin?  Good enough to find the station? Are there more
>> nearby?
>
> The photos are up
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Dero_Bike_Repair.

Bryce here is a better shot of all the tools
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Dero_tool_view.png. The
import page updated automatically.

Thanks for sharing your mapping project.

Regards,
Greg

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] For comment: import of amenity=bicycle_repair_stations

[Greg Morgan]

On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 6:00 AM, Bryce Nesbitt  wrote:
> Dero does not happen to have a ref or primary key for their data.  Some
> other vendor or site may have an actual value here Much as emergency
> phones or some institutional assets.

I finally get what you are doing with the ref.  I believe you are
adding the ref from your data based on the dropbox file that you
provided.

>
> How accurate was the pin?  Good enough to find the station? Are there more
> nearby?

The photos are up
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Dero_Bike_Repair. The
accuracy is good enough to find the station. I did not try to GPS the
station because of the building reflections.  I did not look at the
picture before adding the node. Perhaps the node could move to the
west.  ASU installed the station by a walkway into the parking garage.
The station is near bike racks.  The irony is that there are two gas
station grade air hoses on the other side of the wall.  ;-)

>
> The charging tag needs work: what style of charger? Is the charging free? I
> left that in from others work but feel it should be a separate node.

As far as all the tagging questions, I added the tags based on reading
the wiki and my initial confusion over the import process.  It is all
open source. Do what you will with the node and wiki page.
Classically: "If broken, then you get to keep both pieces."

Regards,
Greg

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Tagging addresses on area's

[Greg Morgan]

On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 1:02 PM, Peter Dobratz  wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 7:58 PM, Greg Morgan  wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 4:23 AM, Mike N  wrote:
>
> ...
>>
>> > The addr:housenumber doesn't render anyway if the
>> > building has also been tagged as another POI that renders.
>>
>>
>> I've solved this problem by putting the address on the building.  If
>> the building also has a POI tag such as amenity=fuel, I move this tag
>> to a new POI node.  I place the POI node so that both the
>> addr:housenumber render along with the POI information.  Addresses and
>> buildings don't change as much as how  busiensses can come and go.
>
>
> This seems to be "tagging for the renderer" which is not a good idea.  If
> the only thing occupying the building is a single POI, then put the POI tags
> on the closed Way for the building outline.  By adding a new object (Node)
> for the POI, you are also going against the "One feature, one OSM element"
> idea.
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tagging_for_the_renderer
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/One_feature,_one_OSM_element
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice

Tagging for rendering would be adding tags to make it render.  In my
book, all I am doing in this case is unstacking duplicate nodes as if
the Keepright map pointed these out.  Perhaps I'll read the last two
wiki pages.  What you quote is new to me.  The wiki pages also say
that I should fill in our dry river beds with some sort of water tag
so we paint pretty blue tiles like Google and other maps do.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/33.4185/-112.0503   The problem
with that idea is that the blue tiles would obscure the recreational
opportunities that the canals and river beds afford my area. Had my
local knowledge been available during World War II, then the German
UBoat prisoners might have had a different plan than floating down the
Salt River to the Pacific Ocean. http://brazilbrazil.com/powcamp.html
;-)

> There are renderers in existence that will display both the house number and 
> the name of a restaurant with food icon.

This is the only render system that I know
http://www.openstreetmap.org/. It does not do what you say.

Regards,
Greg

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] For comment: import of amenity=bicycle_repair_stations

[Greg Morgan]

Oh!  How soon I forget:
  change to
 and that parses OK.

Regards,
Greg


On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 8:58 PM, Greg Morgan  wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 12:40 AM, Bryce Nesbitt  wrote:
>> To summarize: a proposed import of of bicycle repair stations. The  database
>> is maintained by a vendor of bicycle repair stations, the data quality is
>> spot on in many cases, and "geocoding level" in other cases with the pins
>> generally in the right area.   The stations are too small to find on an air
>> photo, but frequently do appear in press releases than be found with a
>> search engine.
>>
>> The vendor uses OSM as a base map:
>> http://www.dero.com/fixitmap/fixitmap.html
>> The discussion is on the imports list.
>> The data is at:
>> http://www.dero.com/fixitmap/fixitmap.html
>> Discussion centers on how best to improve the inexact pin locations.
>
> I've been meaning to go see one of these since you introduced the
> topic back in January.  Curiosity fosters most of my mapping. I was in
> the area and surveyed the actual location.  In my case the bicycle
> repair station was on the south side of the Cronkite building but on
> the north side of the parking garage.  That makes sense because it was
> by the bike lockers.  I have a bunch of pictures that I can include on
> your import page or add some US flair to the bicycle_repair_station
> tag page for the main article if you would like.  Please let me know.
>
> Here's some questions and notes:
>
> I don't see the need to limit the tool list to the one listed in the
> bicycle_repair_station wiki page. I added service:bicycle:screwdriver
> to the POI that I added.  That would be handy to know for other people
> than just bicycle people.  I did not look at all the other available
> tools on the stand.
>
> In a note tag I added a reference to your import page.  That would be
> useful for other mappers to know why and how.
>
> I added service:bicycle:charging=no based on the main page.  There's a
> few electric bicycle shops around downtown.
>
> I added a website tag and pointed to the Dero fix it map.
>
> I added source_alt = survey.  I am guessing that source=osmsync:dero
> is part of you conflation process.  If so, then you might want to make
> that clear on you import page
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Dero_Bike_Repair
>
> I dutifully added ref= but did not understand the point.  Will
> this be part of the conflation magic?  If so, then you might want to
> make that clear on you import page.
>
> There is a problem with ref= if you are going to create a one
> touch preset.  Please see the preset below.  I had to change the
> preset to .  The "" generates
> this error during Josm startup, " Error parsing ...az_preset.xml: The
> value of attribute "value" associated with an element type "null" must
> not contain the "character.  That was way off in left field if you ask
> me. <> must generate an xml error.
>
>  icon="images/../styles/standard/vehicle/rental/bicycle.png"
> type="node" preset_name_label="true">
>   
>   
>   
>   
>value="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Dero_Bike_Repair"; />
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   http://www.dero.com/fixitmap/fixitmap.html"; />
> 
>
> Here's my change information.
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/28718833
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3339010296
>
> I don't know if this will render but I think it would be useful to on
> the bicycle map.
>
> Regards,
> Greg

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] For comment: import of amenity=bicycle_repair_stations

[Greg Morgan]

On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 12:40 AM, Bryce Nesbitt  wrote:
> To summarize: a proposed import of of bicycle repair stations. The  database
> is maintained by a vendor of bicycle repair stations, the data quality is
> spot on in many cases, and "geocoding level" in other cases with the pins
> generally in the right area.   The stations are too small to find on an air
> photo, but frequently do appear in press releases than be found with a
> search engine.
>
> The vendor uses OSM as a base map:
> http://www.dero.com/fixitmap/fixitmap.html
> The discussion is on the imports list.
> The data is at:
> http://www.dero.com/fixitmap/fixitmap.html
> Discussion centers on how best to improve the inexact pin locations.

I've been meaning to go see one of these since you introduced the
topic back in January.  Curiosity fosters most of my mapping. I was in
the area and surveyed the actual location.  In my case the bicycle
repair station was on the south side of the Cronkite building but on
the north side of the parking garage.  That makes sense because it was
by the bike lockers.  I have a bunch of pictures that I can include on
your import page or add some US flair to the bicycle_repair_station
tag page for the main article if you would like.  Please let me know.

Here's some questions and notes:

I don't see the need to limit the tool list to the one listed in the
bicycle_repair_station wiki page. I added service:bicycle:screwdriver
to the POI that I added.  That would be handy to know for other people
than just bicycle people.  I did not look at all the other available
tools on the stand.

In a note tag I added a reference to your import page.  That would be
useful for other mappers to know why and how.

I added service:bicycle:charging=no based on the main page.  There's a
few electric bicycle shops around downtown.

I added a website tag and pointed to the Dero fix it map.

I added source_alt = survey.  I am guessing that source=osmsync:dero
is part of you conflation process.  If so, then you might want to make
that clear on you import page
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Dero_Bike_Repair

I dutifully added ref= but did not understand the point.  Will
this be part of the conflation magic?  If so, then you might want to
make that clear on you import page.

There is a problem with ref= if you are going to create a one
touch preset.  Please see the preset below.  I had to change the
preset to .  The "" generates
this error during Josm startup, " Error parsing ...az_preset.xml: The
value of attribute "value" associated with an element type "null" must
not contain the "character.  That was way off in left field if you ask
me. <> must generate an xml error.


  
  
  
  
  https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Dero_Bike_Repair"; />
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  http://www.dero.com/fixitmap/fixitmap.html"; />


Here's my change information.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/28718833
http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3339010296

I don't know if this will render but I think it would be useful to on
the bicycle map.

Regards,
Greg

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Tagging addresses on area's

[Greg Morgan]

On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 4:23 AM, Mike N  wrote:
> On 2/4/2015 11:25 PM, Greg Morgan wrote:
>>
>>   addr:housenumber contains both the number
>> and the building letter in the same field.  The map is useful because
>> you can find the building. How have other people tried to handle these
>> situations?
>
>
> I haven't tried in any meaningful way.  It's too early to guess how an
> address matching utility might work.   Until now I have used both
>
>  addr:housenumber=724D
>
> and
>  addr:housenumber=724 + addr:unit=D
>
>  depending on whether the address specified by the owner's web site included
> the letter.   More recently, I've gravitated towards separating the
> addr:unit even if the owner specified it as one word, but I'm not sure it's
> the most useful.   The addr:housenumber doesn't render anyway if the
> building has also been tagged as another POI that renders.


I've solved this problem by putting the address on the building.  If
the building also has a POI tag such as amenity=fuel, I move this tag
to a new POI node.  I place the POI node so that both the
addr:housenumber render along with the POI information.  Addresses and
buildings don't change as much as how  busiensses can come and go.

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Tagging addresses on area's

[Greg Morgan]

On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 1:33 PM, Darrell Fuhriman  wrote:
> It seems to be addr:unit, though it’s not widely used. It’s what I’ve been
> using, though.
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:addr:unit
>
> d.
> On Feb 3, 2015, at 12:28, Paul Johnson  wrote:
>
> What's the correct tag for unit number, anyway?  This is driving me insane
> since it's making it impossible to complete mapping the caravan site I live

I punted.  When Josm added a preset that included addr:flats, then I
started using that tag.  Right or wrong I figured most of the other
tags are Euro-English coloured, so to speak, that it did not mater if
I used addr:flats verses addr:unit. The problem is that only
addr:house number renders.  I am not sure how we can render an address
so that it is useful other than only displaying the number.  Then
there is a debate over what tags to add for completeness of an
imported address such as addr:state being redundant.  Moreover, there
is the debate of including/excluding zipcode areas in the OSM data so
that it could be used to improve address data.  On top of suites what
do we do with building numbers.  I have no joy with a complex like
this http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/33.59390/-111.98171.  How do
you add the suite ranges with any meaning along with a building letter
that is useful on the map?  I though x001-x012 for the suite because
there is more than one suite for the building.  The floor is the
distinguishing number for all the suites in that building.   Then
there was this experiment
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/33.58335/-111.90703.  I left
crappy but useful map data.  addr:housenumber contains both the number
and the building letter in the same field.  The map is useful because
you can find the building. How have other people tried to handle these
situations?

Regards,
Greg

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us