Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
windywine wrote: > Using EDO with SPDIF coax to my Teac UD-H01 Dac, playing 192kHz material > does not work. After a few seconds of music the DAC fails to lock on to > the signal and starts clicking (the internal relais). Playing 176.4kHz > material works fine. > > Playing the same 192kHz files using toslink works fine as well, which I > find a bit strange: Over and over I read that coax is more stable than > toslink and that toslink is garantueed to work upto 96kHz only. > > I doubt whether this has to do with my coax digital interlink, (a cheap > one from the brand RU connected, costs around 15 Euro). I tried a Van > den Hul The Wave interlink (70 Euro per piece), which can be used as a > digital interlink (it's 75 Ohm) as well as an analogue interlink. This > gives me the same results. > > I am not able to tell whether this is a problem with the DAC or with the > Touch, but has anyone experienced something similar? Have you tried different length coax cables? If there are impedance mismatches, (which are extremely likely in most setups) reflections happen, if the cable lengths are "right" those reflections can mess up the reception of the data. The cable length to cause the problem will vary with sample rate. When trying different cable lengths don't use 2x or 1/2x, for example if your cable is 1m try a 1.5m not a 2m, or a 0.75m not a 0.5m. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
eduardoo wrote: > Just a little more update regarding My SBT EDO kernel #12 Esoteric K-03 > combo experiment. > > Also, is it normal for the sample rate (when I check the status of the > USB output) to show something like 959998 rather than 96 every now > and then? I didn't check for other sample rates but it was shown > momentarily now and then when I was playing some 96K material. > > Thanks. That means the async protocol is working. It checks the average rate of the data coming in and the rate at which it is being pulled out by the DAC and every so often tells the computer to slow down or speed up to keep the average data rates in sync. So those slight changes in sample rate are the system doing it's job correctly. If it never changes that means the async protocol is not working. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
Supertramp wrote: > I have been using my Touch + EDO together with a Classé CP-800 > preamp/processor with great satisfaction for more than a year. This > week, I had my CP-800 "upgraded" to the latest model which carries new > electronics and as a result provides a few more capabilities such as > playback of > 96 Khz music files. > > What I noticed is that after switching on the CP-800, I have to reboot > the Touch and (re-)select "USB-Audio - CP-800" as the audio output > option is no longer there if I don't reboot. > > The initial post in this thread says: > > > > Is this still true? Is there a way for me to avoid having to reboot the > Touch other than leaving the CP-800 on? > > Many thanks in advance. You should only have to do it once. Switch back to analog out, unplug the USB DAC, reboot. Turn off the SBT. Plug in the USB DAC, boot up, select the USB DAC, reboot, you should be good to go. EDO keeps track of the capabilities of the DAC, if you just change the DAC it gets confused. Going back to a non USB output, then going to the new DAC should guarantee that EDO has stored the properties of the new DAC. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Squeezebox Touch damaged ethernet socket
You CANNOT. repeat CANNOT just use a generic RJ45 jack with the touch. The Touch uses an Ethernet jack which includes the Ethernet transformers built in to the jack!!! You have to find one which includes the same transformer connections (there are several different possible ways the transformers get hooked up) AND has the same pinout. This is not something you are going to get at Radio Shack. IF you know the part number and can find a spec sheet for it you MIGHT be able to find something that is compatible. I just checked, the part is a Tech P65-P0Z-2AG9, I found one distributor that has them in stock, but they have a $250 minimum order. In a quick look I did not find a spec sheet, but you might want to try a more in depth search than I have time for. If you can find a spec sheet you can look at other jacks with built in magnetics and see if there are any compatible ones. Your best bet is to find somebody that has a dead Touch for some other reason that you can get cheap, and harvest the part off it. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100978 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] How well does the Squeezebox Touch work with Ubuntu?
JohnSwenson wrote: > LMS runs great on linux, all my SB servers I've ever had have been on > some form of linux. > > Are you looking to get a general purpose machine that runs linux to do > other standard tasks as well as running LMS or do you want a machine > that just runs LMS? > > John S. If you are doing a dedicated server you might want to consider VortexBox software. It is a complete package, linux OS, LMS, web based configuration (and some other NAS type stuff as well). It's very easy to install and setup, it works great for older equipment. If your laptop is still working fine but you want to get off of windows, just loading VB is by far the easiest way to go. The only reason you might NOT want to do this is if you actually use the laptop for controlling the music, VB runs as a headless server, assuming you will be controlling the music from either a Sb box itself or an app on a smartphone etc. If you do decide to install linux so you actually have a screen you can use, I would recommend something like lubuntu rather than a full ubuntu install. I did an lubuntu install the other day in less than 10 minutes and it was up and running right away. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100896 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] How well does the Squeezebox Touch work with Ubuntu?
LMS runs great on linux, all my SB servers I've ever had have been on some form of linux. Are you looking to get a general purpose machine that runs linux to do other standard tasks as well as running LMS or do you want a machine that just runs LMS? John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100896 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Power help please.
Yep, it is good and fried. It's not just one chip, a lot of things go "poof!" in that scenario. Don't ask how I know! John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100880 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch | 12v power supply - minimum required A?
A touch doing normal network playing operations takes about 1A. If you use high sample rate music it takes a little more (1.3A or so). If you use the internal TinyLMS it takes more, 1.8A or so. If you use a USB drive on top of that it's an additional .5A, so max use with TinyLMS, external USB powered drive you are in the 2.3A range or so. So a 2A supply should work fine for any use that does NOT run TinyLMS. A 1A supply may or may not work for Just network playing. It probably will work if you are not using Wifi, but will be on the edge if using Wifi. All in all I would say a 1A supply is not a good investment, it's right on the edge in some situations, I would think it's not worth it. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100881 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Annoying 'dropouts' using SBT with USB hard drive
Handling 24/96 files from the TinyLMS is right on the edge of what the Touch can do. If you are using FLAC the compression number is actually important here. If you are using a high number (say 8) you can push the Touch over the edge. Try using a low compression number (0 or 1), it might work better. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100748 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
dave4jazz wrote: > I am currently setting-up a SBT and have installed the EDO applet to use > the USB as an output to my Naim DAC-V1 USB. I have run the the > BitPerfect tests but only the 24 bit files pass. The 16 bit files all > report: > > "Audio is not BitPerfect" > "No test audio found" > > I can play 44.1/16 ALAC files OK although I have found quite a number of > files which played on my Duet no longer play on the Touch. > > Any ideas? All SB products output 24 bit, no matter what the input was. If you feed them a 16 bit file it adds zeros on to the end. So in a strict sense it is not bit perfect, but the audio data is exactly the same. (assuming the volume is all the way up and you don't have replay gain turned on). It's not just EDO, the S/PDIF outputs do the same thing, with or without EDO. As to files not playing, can you list some examples (file format, bit depth etc) the server version, the Touch firmware version and the file type settings in the server. At one point there was a problem with one of the apple file types in some form of compression that caused a problem. You could get around it by transcoding to a different type in the server (via the file type settings). I think it has been fixed in the latest firmware versions. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
sprint wrote: > Thanks for the reply. > > Good point about the sound card. I am also not sure how the audio output > via the Vortexbox USB port is being processed? > > Is there anybody here who can advise? > > In what way is the EDO enhancing the audio data over and above that > straight from the SBT without the EDO enabled? The Vortexbox software has a software player (VB player) that can output music to the computer's USB port or soundcard. If you are plugging a USB DAC into the VB the soundcard on the computer has nothing to do with what goes to the USB DAC. The VB player is a SOFTWARE player so it shares some common issues with other software players such as sync between multiple players may not work correctly, there may be issues with gap-less playback. VB player can be controlled just like any other SB player using the wide array of control options such as phones, tablets, other computers etc. It does NOT have an IR remote receiver so you cannot use a standard IR remote. IF your VB is near your USB DAC, then running off its USB port with VB player is a viable option as long as you can live with the limitations (no IR remote, no display, sync may not work well). This will free up the Touch to be used in another room. If the VB is not near the DAC then you want to use the Touch to drive the DAC, that's one of the primary advantages to the SB system, the server can be anywhere, it does not need to be near your playback system. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
obraendl wrote: > @ Triode > i have any questions, is there a different in Sound quality when i use > SPDIF Coax or USB on my SBT to connect to my Audiolab 8200CDQ/V12E with > 24/192 Files? > > Why i need a USB Hub with the SBT, when i direct connect a MacBook Pro > with USB3 or an iPad Air with a Camera USB Connector, this is not a > Problem when play 24/192 ALAC Files. > > Thanks > Regards, obraendl The data being sent out over the SBT coax and USB are the same. Which sounds best is determined by the DAC, some have better S/PDIF receivers and some have better USB receivers. So try both and see which you like best. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
Wayne c wrote: > I have a meridian explorer USB dac and note that this works with the EDO > software can I ask a couple of questions please ( if anyone is using the > explorer that would be great if you could advise?, > > 1. Is it perfectly safe to plug the explorer into the USB socket on the > rear of the Touch, I'm concerned that the USB power may be to much for > the explorer? It says on Meridians literature that it requires - USB, > nominal 5V at <500mA. Can anyone let me know how much power the touches > USB socket puts out please?. > > And > > 2. How do you power the dac down to remove it ?, is it safe to just take > it out the socket or is there a procedure. > > Thanks in advance for any advice. The SBT provides the standard 5V USB voltage so there is no problem here. I think you have a misunderstanding of current, the LOAD (your DAC in this case) determines the amount of current that flows over the connection. The source cannot "force" more current into it than it wants to take. The SBT will supply up to 500mA and your DAC takes less than 500mA so all is fine. If your DAC took more than 500mA THEN you would have a problem, but since the DAC takes less than 500 and the SBT can supply up to 500 all is good. EDO works best if the DAC is plugged in and powered up before the SBT is plugged in to a power source. There is no harm if it is not, it just might not connect properly to the SBT. There is no harm to anything by just unplugging the USB DAC anytime you want. If you want to switch to a different output of the SBT (say S/PDIF or analog) it is best to do so while the USB DAC is still connected. If you unplug the USB DAC THEN try and switch to a different output, the SBT is going to be complaining about not being connected to the USB DAC. It's best to switch first, that way you don't have to worry about the SBT trying to connect to a DAC that isn't there. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
hcanning wrote: > Thanks, I tried it and it worked a treat :) However: > > > My system is as follows: > > Squeezebox Touch > Audiolab 8200DQ > Meridian 557 power amps (balanced) > > I also have an Onkyo AV amp hooked up to an analogue input on the > Audiolab. > > > With the USB cable attached between the Audiolab and the Touch, there's > a rather prominent high-pitched whine from the speakers when I switch to > the analogue input on the Audiolab. > > Disconnect the USB cable and it's gone. > > I'm back to optical for now! > > > Any ideas?! > > > Thanks :) I would do some tests to try and narrow things down. Does the the whine happen just when music is playing or all the time? Does it happen when the Touch's power is unplugged? Does unplugging the USB cable from the Touch make a difference? I'm thinking it might be a ground loop (I was involved in one recently that went through a USB cable, so it CAN happen). John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch analog vs. digital outputs
ruimoutinho wrote: > What is your suggestion? > > It's better RCA analog or Digital optical? And differences between > toshlink and optical? > I only want the SQ for stereo music. Not multichannel. > > Thank you The Touch has 5 ways to get output: headphone jack - analog RCA line out - analog S/PDIF coax, RCA jack - digital S/PDIF optical, TOSLINK jack - digital USB using EDO applet works with many USB DACs (but not all) - digital So TOSLINK and optical are the same thing, Optical is the type of transmission, TOSLINK is the name of the jack. Which is going to sound better? Who knows, different combinations have different "best" connections, the only way to tell for sure is try as many of them as you can and see which you like better. There are so many parameters and interactions that it is impossible to tell in advance which is going to sound the best. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77576 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Squeezebox Touch Enhanced Digital Out and Devialet 170
agentsmith wrote: > Does it mean that the Devialet should in theory work with the Touch > Enhanced Digital Output provided it is using the XMOS solution? > > If yes I will try to hack around with it. > > I haven't really bothered to experiment much since I thought it would be > a dead end. Yes, if it does use the XMOS USB audio implementation it should work with EDO. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100315 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Squeezebox Touch Enhanced Digital Out and Devialet 170
canyelles wrote: > Yes but I am not currently interested in 192 > > I want to uses the USB output because otherwise the USB input on the > Devialet will be unused and I have a number of digital sources. Do you know what the USB receiver chip is on the 170? Do you know what the maximum sample rate is for the USB input? Some USB receiver chips will not work with the Touch but many will. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100315 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch doesn't return to home screen after restore of power (after outage)
Marc_S wrote: > Hi Mikael, I agree with your answers and I have a local running LMS as > well. The hobby is to have full functionality as best as possible, save > as best as possible power as well at home (even if it's only 20 > Euro/year) and have the same successful recovery of the Touch after > network connection loss whether connected to a local LMS or mysb.com. > > I wonder how the Touch behaves during its Power Down - Power Up cycle if > it could not reconnect to the local LMS for a few hours. -If then the > LMS comes back on line after several hours, will the repowered Touch > then reconnect successfully the LMS?- When the player starts it sends out a broadcast message looking for servers. When the server starts up it broadcasts a message looking for players. So if the network is up when these events happen, the player and the server should find each other no matter which order they occur. If the network is down when one or the other of these events happens, they should eventually connect sometime after the network comes up. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100406 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
An SBT with EDO can handled DoP in FLAC files quite well over both S/PDIF coax and USB, AS LONG as your Dac supports DoP! Since the FLAC file is a carrier, make sure you don't do anything that will change the bits in any way. In particular set the volume to 100%, turn of replay gain and turn off fade in fade out. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch doesn't return to home screen after restore of power (after outage)
This behavior is not actually a bug, it is the due to the fact that the touch does not have a battery backed up clock. When it powers on it has NO IDEA what the date and time are. The way the clock gets it's time set is by connecting to an LMS (or mysqueezebox.com). It automatically tries to connect to a server when it boots but, but if the server is down it can't get the time. Since what it thinks of as the time is garbage (some random time) the software prevents the clock screensaver from getting displayed so as not to completely confuse people. When the server comes back up the Touch does not necessarily connect to it until you do some form of trying to play music, THEN it connects, gets the current time and now it can display the clock. If there is no server when it boots up, and you don't start playing any music, it will try and connect to the server every hour to try and get the current time. But exactly when that "every hour" IS will depend on what random time it has when it starts up. Thus if you boot the touch with the server off, then turn on the server, but don't try and play any music, you will get something from 1 second to 1 hour before the Touch tries again to connect to the server, at which point it gets the time, and now the clock will be displayed. I know it seems like it is some bizarre broken behavior, but it is all quite logical when you think about it from the perspective of acquiring a correct time. If it had a battery, none of this would happen. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100406 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
auster wrote: > This is related to posts #1562 - #1565 > > My second set is squeezebox touch connected to NuForce Dia amp. Since > DIA has DAC itself I installed EDO to SBT but it won't recongnize DIA. > When I go Setting > Audio Setting > Digital Output I only see two > options: > > Analog + Digital > Digital Only (current) > > Is DIA should listed here too? > > Ok, I thought that it isn't work and that's it. However when I play > 192Khz music when my both SBT are synced (see posts #1562-#1565) > DacMagic100 reports that sample rate really is 192Khz and it hasn't > dropped to 96Khz like earlier. So I am confused now: Does SBT/EDO/DIA > combination work after all with 192khz or not. I don't know how to > verify that. The DIA just accepts S/PDIF, coax or optical. so the Digital Only setting is the correct one. S/PDIF is unidirectional, from the SBT to the DAC, since it just goes one way there is no way for the DAC to tell the SBT what it is. The SBT is just shoving the data out, it has no way to know if there is anything receiving the data or not. USB on the other hand is bi-directional, the DAC can tell the SBT what its name is and what sample rates it can support, hence the SBT can list it by name, but with S/PDIF there is no way to do that. If the DIA does not have any way to tell what the sample rate is, then your method of syncing two SBTs, one connected to a DAC which tells you the sample rate, and one which does not, is an acceptable way to tell. If they are synced they will both be running the same sample rate, if one DAC says it is running at 192, the other one is as well. BTW a fair number of DAC will run at 192 over their coax inputs but only 96 via the optical inputs, so if you want to do 192, try the coax inputs first. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] USB vs SD - Which port/slot reads faster?
The USB protocol is definitely much more complicated than the SD protocol, so the processor will be doing more with USB. Given that running player and server on the Touch can come close to maxing out its resources I would think that using SD cards would be better in that you would be less likely to max out the processor or memory. SD cards vary radically in their write and read speed. I would try some different "grades", you might get significantly different scan performance with different SD cards. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100275 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Opticall output problem
zaras27 wrote: > Yes of course all the rest are working .The only output that is not > working id the optical The coax S/PDIF and optical S/PDIF come off the same wire on the board, so there is nothing you can do with software that will make one work and one not. Since the coax digital out is working that means the software is setup correctly, so it has to be a hardware issue. If the rest of the chain works correctly (different optical source but the same optical cable, same DAC, same analog cable, amp, speakers etc) then it must be a broken Touch. Before replacing the Touch make sure the above is true, the easiest way to do this is: 1) Coax digital out works. Use whatever DAC, AVR whatever input you have that can read coax S/PDIF 2) Optical digital out does not work. Use exactly the same Touch and LMS settings as #1. DAC, settings etc will be different because you are using optical input rather than coax input. 3) Rest of the chain starting from the optical cable forward works. Use a different optical source, it does not have to squeezebox related, it can be DVD player, game console, whatever. Just as long as you use the same optical cable, same DAC and settings, same amp etc. If both #1 and #2 and #3 are true its a Touch hardware issue. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=100195 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch USB Rescanning Every Power On
The TinyLMS on the Touch has two levels of scan, a check for new files, and a full scan. The check for new files runs every time it boots up. All it is doing is looking at the file name and date and comparing it to its internal database. This is a very fast operation. If it finds any music files that are not in the DB or which have a newer date, then it does a full scan on these files looking for tags and embedded artwork. This takes some time for each file it is "deep scanning". As long as the database is up to date (you don't have a lot of new files) the scan for new files should be pretty fast. For example 30,000 files takes about 1.5 minutes on my Touch. The check for new files can be very fast (a minute or so) if the number of files on the disk is not huge. It is the number of files period, not the number of music files that matters. For example if you have 5 million files on the disk and only 200 music files the scan for new music is going to take a very long time because it actually has to at least look at all of the files to see if they are music files. So one thing you can do is make sure you just have music files on the disk, this will speed up the scan for new files if you have a lot of non-music files on the disk. The other issue is that the scan for new files is only fast if the database exists already. If it does not it is going to do a full scan on all the music files which can take a long time. Some things can cause the full scan to fail which prevents the DB from being built, which means it is going to do a full scan on all your files every time it boots. You can check on this by carefully monitoring the scan process on the screen and see what it says. If the DB is intact you will get messages about scanning for new files, it will then tell you the number of new files found and start doing the deep scan. If the number of new files is zero, then the database is fully intact. If the number of new files is large, something has happened. So I would recommend watching the scan messages carefully during one of these 20 minute scans and report back what you see. That will give us some insight into what is happening. Also let us know how many files you have on the disk, how many are music files etc. That will help understand what might be normal or not for your setup. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=1 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
DavidNL wrote: > Hi, in the first post you state: > > "Support of 176 and 192k playback via the standard digital > output" > > I suppose this plugin/app is not supported on the Logitech Transporter > to provide 192K playback via the standard digital output? The TP does not have support for applets on the player so you cannot use EDO on it. The actual audio hardware on the TP can handle 192 (but NOT 176.4). There are three problems in the way: 1) LMS thinks the max rate is 96, this would have to be changed. It's just simply editing a number in a file. 2: the TP firmware may not support 192. There are a couple scenarios: it works for both analog and digital out, just analog, just digital or none of the above. 3) The processor in the TP is not super powerful, it may not have enough juice to handle 192. In order to give it a fighting chance turn off as much stuff as possible such as replay gain, fade ins, synching etc. It's also probably a good idea to turn off the meters, scrolling text etc. Give the audio processing as much CPU cycles as it can get. Use LMS 7.8 which supports 192 in both flac and PCM streaming. Try streaming as either flac or PCM (you are trading off between network processing and flac decoding) So no way it's going to happen out of the box, but it might just barely work if someone is willing to put effort into it. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
guidof wrote: > Hmmm. Following a failed attempt at using EDO+USB+Benchmark DAC2 D, I > switched to SPDIF (coax). Everything worked fine up to 24/96. But > playing a 24/192 track results in distorted sound and the LEDs on the > Benchmark show 24/44.1. (All this because I wanted to eventually test > the DSD over DoP capability of this DAC). > > Did a factory reset, re-installed EDO, played with buffer size choices. > Even tried a different SBT. Same unsatisfactory results. > > I'm really baffled by this. The database indicates full compatibility of > EDO and Benchmark DAC2, so I must conclude that I'm either doing > something asinine or this particular DAC is defective. I lean toward the > former ;-). > > I really like the sound quality of this DAC, so I'd like to be able to > make it work to its full (presumed) capability. > > Any ideas? > > Guido F. Unless you are using the very latest LMS you have to use flac streaming for greater than 96. The slimproto in all earlier versions doesn't have a way to say 176.4 or 192 so it maxes out to 96. When you stream flac it contains the sample rate in the flac header so it can tell its using one of the higher rates. The higher rates were added recently to slimproto, but they are only in the beta versions of the software. (I'll let Michael tell us if the higher sample rates are in the version he just released) John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] DSD downloads from Acoustic Sounds w/ Touch
Holzohr wrote: > Wow! Thanks John! That was really new to me. I was dreaming of the LUMIN > but with the SBT + EDO, a suitable DAC is all I need! I just ordered the > Matrix X-Sabre DAC. USB connection should work, thanks to the XMOS > chip. > After reading about this DoP, I remembered about the DTS and AC3 files > in FLAC container I still have from my former multichannel times. I > could stream them with my old SB Classic to the AV-Receiver. That is > really genial via DoP, also because of tagging. Can not wait to get the > DAC! I already converted a DSD album to DoP. I will see if it works :) > > Thanks again for sharing this! > > Mario Hi Mario, it looks like that DAC should work for you. I think it's very strange that the info on their web page doesn't mention DoP, it just says native DSD. This is very confusing since there are two formats for getting DSD data to a DAC, one is DoP, the other is a format supported by ASIO frequently called "Native DSD". Since their web page says native DSD and doesn't mention DoP I thought it might not work. But further investigation shows that they ARE using DoP and not the ASIO native DSD format. Rather confusing on their part. Yep this situation is exactly the same sort of thing as using DTS contained in FLAC, the same restrictions apply, you change 1 bit and it doesn't work. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=99571 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Toslink connection
kswanson wrote: > Nope, neither of those will fit in the support--diameter of the > connector is too large. I'll try to figure out how to post a pic. This > is really perplexing. The Touch has never had anything other than a standard TOSLINK jack. We really need to see a picture of what you have, nobody here has any clue what it is you have there. The only thing that makes sense is that it is some form of adapter. Did you get this Touch used from someone that might have modified it? The toslink hole in the case is a favorite spot for people that are modifying the Touch to add things like a BNC jack. This might be what you have. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=99635 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] DSD downloads from Acoustic Sounds w/ Touch
Actually you CAN play a DSD file through a Touch as long as you DoP encode it. There are a couple different ways out there to take a DSD file and DoP encode it which producesa 176.4 WAV or FLAC that you can include in your files that LMS manages just like any other file. This is NOT converting to PCM, it is using the WAV or FLAC as a "CONTAINER" to store the DSD data. As long as your DAC is DoP complient and can run at 176.4 (for sure over USB and maybe over coax S/PDIF) it should automatically sense the DoP encoding and start using it's DSD output capability with the DoP stream. Just make ABSOLUTELY SURE LMS and the Touch are not doing anything to the data, the volume must be at 100% and replay gain turned off, no crossfade etc. If anything happens to the bits the DAC won't sense it as a DoP stream so the PCM DAC will try and play it which will give massive amounts of noise coming out. Note that because of this volume restriction you cannot use the SB volume control, so you will need some other form of volume control, either inthe DAC or a preamp etc. If you accidently reach for the SB remote to turn down the volume you will get massive noise. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=99571 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Nasty noise from Touch
One thing that is very important for us to know is: are you listening from the analog outs or do you have a DAC connected to one of digital outs? John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=99312 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
PasTim wrote: > I have the enhanced kernel installed on my Touch. I'm running LMS 7.8 > on a Vortebox appliance, playing FLACs, with the File Type set to PCM > only. The connection to the Touch is wired. > > The Touch is outputting Digital (only) to a Musical Fidelity M1 Clic. > > Once in a while the system stutters about 10 seconds before the end of > some tracks. It's as if in preparation for the next track the FLAC > decoding process on the VB has stopped because it thinks its job is > done, and then the Touch asks for a retransmission, which requires the > process to restart (but that is wild guesswork). > > I haven't been able to pin down when this happens precisely, except it's > usually when I have settled down to some serious listening! When I try > to isolate the problem it usually fails to manifest itself, a bit like > taking your car to the garage with a fault that promptly disappears > until you get the car back. > > I have never had this stutter playing music in any other way, including > via a PC running squeezelite to an async USB DAC. > > Has anyone else had something similar? It's driving me mildly nuts. The server starts sending the next track about 10 seconds before the end of the current track so the player has data when the current track ends so there is no gap. It's also doing things like sending track data and cover art. It might have something to do cover art, or it could happen if you have your library on more than one disk and one of those disks has gone to sleep and has to wake up. You can look at the server log files and see if you see any errors in the output. One thing you can do is write down the specifics of the current track and next track when this happens and see if there is some correlation (like its always when going from the last track of an album to the first of another, or if it happens when changing sample rates, or when changing file types etc) Any such correlation will help pin things down. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] USB speakers connected directly to touch?
turbot fiend wrote: > Resurrecting this thread. Does anyone know if I can connect B&W MM1 > powered speakers (built in DAC) to an SB Classic? MM1s only have USB > connect for digital via PC/MAC, although one can use a spearate aux jack > in for analogue. I want to connect directly to streamer - this is for a > bedroom system. > > Any views on these options: > 1. SB RCA to minijack - I already use this with SBT and Audioengine A2s > in kitchen and to good effect > 2. SB spdif to USB using a third party converter cable. > > It seems the converters I have looked at are primarily aimed for those > who want to convert usb to spdif and not vice versa. > > Any help welcomed. > thanks Unfortunately there is no such thing as a S/PDIF to USB "adapter", it's called a computer! This is a complex task and nobody has yet got it down to the level of "adapter". To do this takes a computer with some specialized software. It is particularly interesting if the USB DAC runs in asynchronous mode, the source (S/PDIF) and the DAC will be running at slightly different rates which will take an ASRC in software. If your USB input is one that will run under linux you could get a wandboard and put CSOS on it, this is a very good SB emulator, you can plug your USB input intothe wandboard. Or just use the analog outs on the clasic. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=98223 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Clock is losing time on Touch running TinyLMS
P Nelson wrote: > Is any one else having the problem with the clock losing time on the > Touch when running TinyLMS? After about a week, the clock will be about > five minutes slow. I have to connect the mysqbox.com to reset the time > and then reconnect to TinyLMS to fix the time. > > It is like TinyLMS is not checking a world clock website. > > Anyone have a solution, besides running LMS on another computer? > > Thank you. > > Paul There are several threads about this subject here. The gist is that LMS is designed to keep time from the computer it is running on. With TinyLMS that is linux running on the touch. Linux keeps time using a software clock running on the processor, it is not very acccurate. This clock gets updated when the touch connects to another LMS server. It could be mysqueezebox.com or another LMS on your LAN. There is a "Real Time Clock" (RTC) in the touch hardware which is way more accurate, but by default the software clock ignores it. It's not too hard to add the linux commands that sync the software clock to the RTC every so often (say once an hour), but the Touch does not have any way to automatically do this, you have to login and setup some scripts. There is a caveat, the RTC is NOT battery backed up, so every time it boots it goes back to January 1 1970. Another option is to add an NTP client to the Touch which will go out over the internet every so often and grab the time. IF your touch is routinely connected to the internet this is probably the best solution. There is a thread here about how to do this. http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?87588-NTP-on-the-Touch Read the whole thread. The very last post mentons that there is already an NTP client in the latest Touch firmware, but it is not turned on by default. You will need to follow the instructions for editing the rcS file to automatically start the NTP client at boot time. One very important fact not mentioned in this thread, after editing the rcS file type: sync This flushes the memory buffer to the flash, if you don't do this the changes you made will be lost when you pull the plug on the Touch. Once you have NTP running you should not have any problems with losing time. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=98974 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
lordgibbness wrote: > Anyone else know why the version of Linux on the Touch has issues with > USB Audio Class 1 DACs at 96kHz but is fine with Class 2 at 192kHz? > > FYI, I don't currently own any audio files at this frequency (all of my > files or 16/44.1 FLAC and MP3), but in the future as 24/96 becomes more > popular (it surely will) I would like to see if the Touch could > potentially be patched to fix this issue? > > I know there is a workaround available to add a USB Hub in between the > DAC and the Touch, but I am trying to keep electrical noise to a minimum > so don't really want to go down this route. > > thanks. > Rob. This is my understanding of the situation: The Touch has a USB 2.0 port, the MDAC has a USB 1.0 port, some of the low level USB information is different in these two standards. From now on I will refer to this as 1.0 packet and 2.0 packet. The system deals with the difference between these with something called a Transaction Translator (TT). Most systems have the TT implemented in hardware as part of the USB port. The software driver running on the host computer talks to the hardware port with 2.0 packats, if the port knows it is connected to a 1.0 port, it's TT will do the translation, so 2.0 packets go to host driver and 1.0 packets go to the device on the other end of the cable. Everybody is happy and the system works smoothly. BUT for some reason (presumably cost) the makers of these highly integrated processors (which include the USB hardware in the processor chip) have left out the hardware TT, thus the driver has to take on the responsibility of the TT functionality. The default driver that comes with linux for these devices seems to be able to handle the TT functions well as long as packets are going unidirectionaly. But Async USB interleaves packets going back to the host in the middle of the rapid stream of packets going to the DAC, the software TT can't seem to handle this. Triode figured out how to hack the driver so it could at least handle this situation, but the processor is not fast enough to handle this interleaving at sample rates faster than 48KHz. The external hub includes a hardware TT which does the translation so the 1.0 port on the MDAC sees 1.0 packets and the 2.0 port on the Touch sees 2.0 packets so the software TT is not needed on the Touch. BTW this is only an issue for async 1.0 DACs, adaptive DACs don't send packets back in the middle of the stream from the host so they don't have a problem with the software TT and of course DACs with 2.0 ports (async or adaptive) are already talking 2.0 packets so the translation is not needed. So the USB hub is really your only choice if you want to go with sample rates faster than 48KHz. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] How to get Wi-fi access to the Touch?
In addition to the username and password the workgroup name must be the same for the SBT and your windows computer. By default the SBT has WORKGROUP. Note this is NOT the same as a Win7 Homegroup. Win7 has a separate workgroup name. To see it in win7 goto control panel->system. This should show the workgroup name. If it is not WORKGROUP, you can change it by: goto control panel->system->Advanced System settings. This brings up the System Properties window, click on the Computer Name tab, then click on Change and you should get a box where you can change the workgroup name. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=98455 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
alcarp wrote: > Does anyone know what chipset is used in the SBT? X86 or ARM? It's ARM, Freescale iMX35 to be exact. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Trying to fix time drift with EDO firmware
cfuttrup wrote: > Hi Mnyb > > P.S. I re-entered the Touch device to update time with msntp - just to > get on-par quickly - but discovered that the crontab directory had been > deleted (maybe when the device was rebooted). Is this normal behavior - > that the Touch wipes such changes upon reboot? I might have wanted to > clean up my act anyway, but I was surprised to see the setup was gone. > > /Claus If you SSH into a Touch and make file changes, then reboot by pulling the plug or pushing the button on the back you will loose the last changes you made. File system changes go to a memory buffer and if you just power off they are lost. To get them into the FLASH memory you need to either type the command: sync Before pulling the plug, or reboot using the command: reboot The command reboot does a sync before shutting the device down. It can be rather frustrating if you don't know this! John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=98322 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Fried Touch
Cut-Throat wrote: > Yup, probably toast..I go on e-bay and find another one. Used or > Refurb. > > And then be careful..After all the SBT is now 'Vintage Gear' ... I > treat the SBTs just like my NOS 45 Globe TubesNo longer made, but > cherished. Aha, 45 globes. I recently got a pair off ebay for a song, they work great. It seems there was a guy up in Canada who owned a radio repair shop, he recently passed away and his family went through the back of his shop and put all the tubes up on ebay, not knowing what any of them were or what they were worth. In that collection was a pair of "in the original box" globe 45s with a sticker saying they had been received in october 1935. They had been sitting in the back of the shop for all those years. They sound wonderful. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=98369 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
avta wrote: > I tried this but ran into a problem. Each time I changed music files > there was a loud pop that was independant of the position of the volume > control on the SBT. I went back to using a passive pre. That seems to be a DAC specific issue, I'm using my DAC from SBT direct to an amp without a problem. As others have mentioned the trick is to set the gain of the system so that max from the DAC is a little bit louder than you will ever want to play, then you can run the Sb volume control in a range where it is going to work well. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
miab wrote: > Thank you John. You have always been a great help. > > I currently am using my Touch with tt3.0 but I would love to be able to > use/see the screen as now it is disabled. In particular have you or > anyone else noticed a difference with or without the screen on the usb > output? > > John, you mention using a dac with both spdif and usb inputs. In your > experience which were you able to get the ultimate performance on, usb > or spdif? I'm guessing that it might be particular to each dac used and > the quality of their different inputs but what were your particular > experiences? Ultimately I assume that usb might have the edge if both > were properly implemented. I plan on using a USB to SPDIF converter into > my favorite spdif only dac BTW and I think the spdif out of a converter > might be better than spdif out of Touch. I have not noticed any case with a USB DAC where the screen on or off made any difference. There certainly might be a DAC sensitive to this, but none of the ones I tested were. The things that I found that made the biggest difference were scheduling issues, thread priorities etc. These had the biggest difference in all the USB DACs. (different DACs were more or less sensitiveto this, but for any given DAC it was the most important). Buffer size was the next important, and everything else made little difference. Again the settings that were produced the best results with S/PDIF were NOT the best settings for USB. I did not try any USB to S/PDIF converters in these tests so I don't know how they performed. A USB to S/PDIF converter may or may not sound better than the S/PDIF out of the Touch. There are two categories of paramters that affect the results, one is ab solute and the other is relative. The absolute parameters are things like jitter and noise, the lower the better. But then there is impedance, the absolute value doesn't matter, what matters is the matching between the transmitter and the receiver. Unfortunately even though the spec says 75 ohms, the reality is that for both transmitters and receivers the impedance varies all over the place, from 15 ohms to over 120 ohms. If you run a transmitter with 15 ohms into a receiver with 120 ohms you are highly likely to get poor performance no matter how low the jitter on the transmitted signal is. So a given converter and DAC MAY sound better than the direct out, but not necessarily because it is "higher quality", but most likely because it just happens to be a better match to the input circuit on the particular DAC. BTW USB has a similar issue, but the range of mismatches is usually much less than for S/PDIF. (I'm not sure why, it's actually easier to get a good match with S/PDIF, but for some reason most designers of S/PDIF boards ignore the issue, but DO think about it for USB, probably because with S/PDIF if you get it wrong it still works, but if you get the impedance wrong with USB it doesn't work at all) As Guido said some DACs like the converter better and some don't. And most likely if you tried a different converter you would get even different results. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
miab wrote: > Sorry, I don't have time to read all 120 pages (my 3 small kids keep me > from sitting for more than 2 minutes) but what is the consensus on > running EDO with or without tt3.0? For sending audio over usb as opposed > to spdif does it make a difference? > > Thanks in advance. I did some testing on this a few months ago and found that with some DACs parts of TT3.0 made a significant improvement and other parts made no difference, and some parts made it not work at all, in particular some USB DACs don't work with the small buffer sizes TT3.0 uses by default. Other DACs didn't seem to be affected much at all by TT3.0. I tried a couple DACs that have both S/PDIF and USB input and found that different TT3.0 settings give the best results for different inputs. So as with just about everything else in digital audio, try it yourself and see what you like the best! John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Are there any cheap options for a Better Touch Power Supply?
Mnyb wrote: > Was not that the design rationale behind the power supply John Swenson > designed ? As such interaction can come from traditional power supplies > to . > > There is to much subjective bias anyway as no one reports worse > performance with any third party ps :) all linear power supplies are not > good and switch mode power supplies are not inheritly bad . > > So why search for a " cheap linear supply" if one wants a cheap supply > that is good ,switch mode is the obvius choice . There are two primary goals of my PS design, one is to radically reduce the noise injected back into the AC mains, and the other is that ripple presented to the regulator be a very clean almost pure sine wave. Even inexpensive regulators do very well with sine waves, and most regulators do poorly with the high frequency content provided by most supply designs. Most cheap linear supplies are frequently worse at these goals than good switchers, but some switchers are REALLY bad. Since there is so much variability between PS implementations it's hard to make generalizations. There is a group that has latched onto "lab supplies". There is no guarnatee that a lab supply will be any better either. I have measured some lab supplies that inject just as much noise back into the mains as other supplies. And some are very good. But just going to ebay and getting the cheapest "lab supply" you can find is not going to guarantee good results. The regulators in the Touch itself are particularly prone to input noise in the 10KHz to 200KHz or so range, unfortunately a lot of the inexpensive PS designs have a fair amount of noise in this region. This is where special regulator designs such as the Teddy Regs etc shine, they ARE good at suppressing noise in these ranges. With my PS I produce a raw signal with almost nothing in this range so such regs are not usually needed. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79977 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] SB Touch won't display correct time
daytripper wrote: > Hi there > > I'd like to revive this thread - my setup (Boom, Touch, Radio) doesn't > display the correct time - they are all 7 minutes slow. > > The FreeNAS box I'm using runs the correct time, the router is correct > and so is my computer (not that that should make a difference). So where > is my SB setup getting this wrong time from..? > > Any help appreciated - please save my sanity..! > > thanks > marc On what device is LMS running on? That is the computer that matters. LMS takes the BIOS time on that computer, assumes it is GMT and sends that to the SB devices, where the timezone is applied. So I would check the BIOS time of the computer running LMS and make sure it is GMT. Just checking the time on the computer is not sufficient, since that computer is also applying a timezone offset, you actually have to check the time in the BIOS. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94922 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] GMT Time displaying as GMT+8
When the Touch boots up it trys to connect to mysqueezebox.com, if it can connect it will get the time from there. This happens even if you are not playing anything from mysqueezebox.com. Then when you try and play something local it connects to your local LMS which will send the time on THAT computer. If I remember correctly the Touch will try and re-sync it's time every hour. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97656 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] GMT Time displaying as GMT+8
The Touch does not contain its own battery backed up RTC. It has the standard linux software clock, which runs off the processor interrupts. So when the Touch powers up it does not have any correct time. It will set it's software clock from the time it gets when it connects to an LMS (either your local or mysqueezebox.com). It is ASUMMING that the time it gets from the server is GMT and adds your local timezone. All the different mysqueezebox.com servers use GMT as the time so you should have correct time when connected to them. (assuming you have correct timezone set). Unfortunately many local PCs are set to local time, NOT GMT, so when the Touch connects to a server on that machine you get the timezone double counted. The solution is to make sure that the BIOS time on everything with LMS is set to GMT, then the timezone stting on the Touch will do it's job and the times will come out right. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97656 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
edmondwolfman wrote: > If I don't use the Enhanced digital plugin every sample rate plays. I > guess the touch downsamples 192k to 96 and 176 to 88 when running in > standard mode. The downsampling happens in the server not the Touch. All LMS installations come with the program SOX which LMS uses to downsample sample rates higher than the player can handle. In the case of EDO it gets interesting because the sample rate limits are determined by the external DAC. In the case of a USB DAC the DAC can tell EDO what it's capabilities are, EDO then tells LMS which will do downsampling where appropriate to match the DAC. In the case of a S/PDIF connection EDO doesn't know what you have connected to the Touch, so it assumes it can handle everything up through 192 and sends that to information to the server. I don't think there is a way right now to tell EDO that an external S/PDIF DAC cannot support 176 but can support the others. Off the top of my head I can't even think of a way to do that in a custom-convert.conf file. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
edmondwolfman wrote: > Ok, I just connected via coax and 192k plays just fine. Weird thing is > 176k won't play at all. Everything else works except the 176k via coax. The Touch and EDO can handle 176 quite nicely, so it is most likely your DAC. For some reason 176 seems to not be supported in many DACs. Recently I was testing out a very expensive DAC and everything worked great except 176, it was highly distorted and inconsistent. I've seen this sort of thing many times. The Touch was outputting the correct data with the correct timing, but the circuitry inside the DAC was outputting waveforms to the DAC chip that was right on the hairy edge of causing timing errors -- JUST for 176! I guess nobody bothers to test 176. I've seen several recently that specifically say that 176 does not work, period. I'm at a loss to understand why this is done. My guess is that they have a working 44.1 -> 96 system, then add a 192, and just make it able to do 192 and don't bother to add the extra 75 cents to make it handle 176. Anyway, that's the way it is in many cases today. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
edmondwolfman wrote: > I'm working today so I just did a simple install and quick listen using > toslink and a 192k file. I'll try other sample sizes and then the coax > also when I get time. Aha, 192 is at best problematic over TOSLINK. The current crop of TOSLINK receivers does not have enough bandwidth to reliably handle 192. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. If you want to do 192 over S/PDIF make sure you use coax. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
edmondwolfman wrote: > I installed the plugin and changed to digital only. I get music for a > few seconds and then obnoxious static and then back and forth. > > I have a Beresford Bushmaster DAC capable of input up to 192k. What input are you using? (Coax, TOSLINK) What sample rates have you tried? Does it have the problem with all sample rates. Does it work fine without EDO? John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch considered lower SQ than CD player on a high-end system?
On the digital filter issue here is what can happen: lets say you are feeding the ADC in the recording studio an analog waveform in which the peaks are exactly at the level to produce a Full Scale (FS) output. What happens when a sharp peak (say a piano key pressed hard) hits inbetween the sample points? The numbers that come out of the ADC are slightly less than FS, the sample time hits the "skirts" rather than the peak. When these samples are fed to a DAC the digital filter inside reconstructs the peak inbetween the original sample points at exactly FS, the DAC handles that correctly and everything is fine. But what frequently happens is the track gets processed and those samples which were slightly below FS now get boosted so they are at exactly FS. When THESE samples hit the digital filter in the DAC it now produces a peak which is greater than FS. There are a few different ways a DAC can deal with this. If it was not specifically designed to deal with this issue that peak above FS will most likely wrap around and become a FS peak of the opposite polarity, a short impulse as loud as the DAC can produce, a REALLY REALLY bad distortion! It can clip the value, this is not as bad since it is just chopping off the very peak of the waveform, OR it can decrease the volume of the whole waveform very slightly so it can properly reproduce these peaks above FS. The last option seems like a good way to deal with it, BUT the chip makers don't like doing this, it means everything is slightly lower in amplitude which decreases the overall SN ratio of the chip, and to a chip maker that is the single most important spec to get as good as possible. Doing this to one of their chips puts it at a disadvantage in the marketplace. If every chip on the planet did this and did it by the same amount, then it probably would not be an issue. But then you would have massive creative specmanship going on. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97483 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Audiophilleo 2 + Pure Power not working with Squeezebox Touch
Davey Wilo wrote: > G'day fellas > > I have just found these forums searching for an answer to a problem that > I'm hoping that you guys can help me fix, I've just taken delivery of an > Audiophilleo 2 with the Pure Power battery option, I treated myself to > it after borrowing a standard AP2 that I was extremely impressed with, I > thought I would go the extra mile and pay for the PP option to remove > the dirty USB feed but it looks like it may have bitten me in the ass > > Dave Does the standard AP2 work with the Touch? Is it something specific to just the battery option? I have heard that some other battery powered DACs have problems with the Touch. Whenever the DAC is plugged in the Touch tells it that it is "active" which means it is always running off the battery and never recharges. Do you have some other way to power it and see if it works that way? John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97559 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Problem playing Hires files
Sample rates greater than 96 have to be streamed as flac. Note this is the stream format NOT the file format. LMS can transcode the file into a flac stream no matter what the actual file format is on the disk. You can do this through the LMS web page (port 9000 of the server computer). Go to: settings->advanced->File Types (the last is a drop down list in the upper left of the page) Down the left side is a list of disk file types. Each of them has a choice of several stream formats, for the disk file types you have, set all the stream types EXCEPT FLAC to disabled. This forces LMS to transcode everything to FLAC. This should then work for your higher sample rate files. (assuming your DAC can handle it). John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97565 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] SB Touch "music folder" access very slow
The only thing I can think of right now is that your disk controller might be running in PIO mode rather than UDMA mode, this can dramatically slow down disk operations. In addition most motherboards require custom windows drivers in order for the disk controller to run at it's full speed. I would go into device manager and check your disk controller and make sure it has a custom driver installed and the 'mode' is not set to PIO. Exactly how you do this on WHS I'm not sure, I've never used it. On XP and W7 its control Panel->System->device manager. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96244 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch Web Server non accessible
mherger wrote:
> > Ok, I'm not totally new to this kind of solutions.
> > Please, could you give some hints, some starting point?
>
> In Settings/Advanced you can enable SSH ("Remote access"). Then you'll
>
> find the configuration file in /etc/squeezecenter. I'd suggest you play
>
> with the prefs on a desktop installation before you start tinkering on
> the
> device. And always keep a copy of the working file..
>
> --
>
> Michael
Unfortunately it's not quite this simple, a number of the important
files get regenrated at boot time (I don't remember exactly which
ones) so just changing the file doesn't work. I experimented with this
a while back and wound up having to write some "patches" and apply them
from linix at the correct place in the boot process, after the files get
rewritten but before the server gets started. Unfortunately it's been
awhile and the machine I did all this on is no longer with us so I
don't have the details.
Another option is to find where in the boot code the files are being
re-written and stop it, but it turned out to be multiple places, it was
easier to just aply a patch after the re-writes.
So the simple answer is "it CAN be done, but it aint easy!"
John S.
JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974
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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] RCA Output while in standby
giantpopples wrote: > Hello ! > I have recently bought a Emotiva A-100 amp which has a very nice > function : it detects when a signal comes from the stereo RCA input to > automatically power. > Problem is, I have hooked up my squeezebox touch and it seems that there > is always current on the RCA output (like the digital one), even when > the SBT is in standby, therefore the amp is always on :-( (the fault is > on the SBT, if I remove the RCA from the SBT after a few seconds the amp > goes off) > Is that normal behavior, and is there any options/plugins/lua file I > could use to have this behavior disabled ? > > The amp also have a trigger input, but the SBT does not support this > whith the 3.5" audio out.. > > Thank you very much ! Are you talking about the single RCA digital out, or the two analog RCA outs? The noise level on the analog outs is VERY low when not playing anything, if that is triggering the amp then either its sensitivity is set wrong or you have a ground loop. If you are talking about the DIGITAL out from the Touch, then this is a known issue, the digital out is always sending out a signal, even if it is "silent". John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97477 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch considered lower SQ than CD player on a high-end system?
This is one of those very difficult to answer in the general sense. I have a $1200 CD player that does not sound as good as the Touch, but a $4000 one which is a lot better. Non of my less than $1000 players are better than the Touch, but that does not mean it is universally true. I certainly have not compared it to every player out there. Then there is what you are looking for. I have been in a listening session with several people where different people ranked equipment differently and we were all in the same room listening to the exact same setup. So YOU may like the Touch better and someone else may like the CD player better etc. The same thing goes for external DACs, there are a LOT of inexpensive DACs out there right now, some people think some of them sound better than the Touch analog outs and others think the Touch sounds better. I have a system in my listening room (It's all DIY, so don't ask what equipment it is) that is very resolving. I also have built many DACs, some of which are about as good as it gets today. These DACs DO sound significantly better than the Touch, but the Touch on it's own still sounds quite good in this system. Last night I was doing a little comparison with the Touch, a $300 DAC and a $1200 DAC. The Touch easily beat the $300 DAC and was neck and neck with the $1200 DAC. Of course someone else might have heard it differently. But then there is a $150 DAC (HRT music streamerII) which when used with EDO and parts of TT3.0 is better than that $1200 DAC! (again that is for ME, someone else may think differently) John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97483 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] SB Touch "music folder" access very slow
Mnyb wrote: > I would tryu by disabling upnp/dlna and all video and photo scanning > ,untick video and photo for your music folder +1 on this. The only time I have ever had a long (several hour) search for new files was when my wife had been playing some games and wound up with 40 million little GIF files on the disk. It took forever going through all these. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96244 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] SqueezePlay for the ChromeBook?
There is a new linux player called SqueezeLite, go check out the linux / Unix forum. It is just a black box player, no Gui. To control the system you need a controller of some sort, If you want to do the control on the same ChromeBook, you can either use the Web gui of the server or you can use squeezeplay as a controller (it works well for that, the problems has been the actual audio out part, SqueezeLite has that working now) You can also use any of the other controller apps for iThings or the several android controlers etc. There are probably other controller programs for linux, I just haven't used them recently so I'm sure what is out there now. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92768 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] "Video out" on the Touch is now out of the question, so where do I go now?
JJZolx wrote: > USB displays exist. Could software run on the Touch send video out of > the USB port? I looked into this a while back, they work by having a driver which hooks into the graphics system that is writing to the frame buffer, compresses the data and sends it out over the USB port in a specific protocol. Unfortunately the standard drivers of this only exist for Windows and Mac. The Touch is running Linux. There has been some attempts at doing this for X-Windows which is how most desktop linux systems do their displays, BUT the Touch doesn't use X-Windows, there is a different graphical layer that writes to the frame buffer. Theoretically its possible to add these calls to that system, but it would be a lot of work. It might be possible for a process to read the frame buffer itself and send that out the USB port, that would actually be simpler to program, that would take a lot of CPU resources in order to handle things that change rapidly. Not something we want happening on our resource starved little machine! So while an interesting thought, a USB display is not going to be something that is easy to implement for the Touch. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97254 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Screensaver no longer working?
It may be that the Touch is not getting it's time set. It does not have an internal battery backed up clock, it keeps time via software running on the processor, but the date and time has to get set somewhow. This is normally done by connecting to an external server over the net. If the Touch can't get it's software clock set it will not display the clock because it knows for sure that the time will be incorrect. Are you by any chance running stand alone (internal server)? If so you have a couple choices: 1) connect to an external LMS server 2) connect to mysqueezebox.com 3) SSH into the Touch and use linux commands to set the clock 4) install NTP client to get the time from an internet time server If you are connected to an external LMS then the Touch should be getting set from that server. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97060 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] "Video out" on the Touch is now out of the question, so where do I go now?
Are you looking for a "now playing" display or do you also want the menus etc on the external display? If you just want the now playing Erland has a nice Android app (Squeeze Display) designed for Android tablets. Some tablets even have HDMI out which could go to a LARGE display. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97254 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Playing Music from Android Device (e.g. Samsung Galaxy SIII, Note II)
Cavcalade wrote: > Hello, > > I'd like to know if there is a way to play music stored on an Android > device that is connected to the same wifi network as the Squeezebox > Touch. > > I'm happy with any solution. > > Thanks! There are three possibilities that I can see: 1) LMS on the android device. I don't think this exists, but it's not technically impossible. 2) upnp server on the android device, local LMS server with upnp client. This probably exists and could be made to work after a fashion. 3) samba server on android and local LMS which is pointed to the samba share. I think #3 is probably your best bet. I have seen a samba server app for android (make SURE you get the samba SERVER app, not the samba CLIENT app). You will need LMS running on another computer (you cannot easily do this with the TinyLMS built into the Touch). Just set the LMS to look at the samba share from the android device as it's source of music files. You will need to set the workgroup name on both the android samba server and the computer LMS is running on to the same name. Then LMS will scan the files and you can use any of the squeezebox system control mechanisms for playing the music. Note: I have NOT done this so I can't give tips on specific pitfalls, but it should work. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96947 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
toby10 wrote: > Toslink as a spec is more than capable of 24/192. But a lot of toslink > hardware imposes limits to 96. There are several speed grades of TOSLINK, the lowest speed grades just barely work with 96, 192 is beyond them. The higher speed grades can handle 192 quite well, but if you mix speed grades 192 is problematical. So I think a lot of DAC makers don't want to be in the situation of using a high speed receiver but having the user plug in a slow speed transmitter and get marginal performance so they just don't allow 192 over TOSLINK period. And because a lot of DACs don't support 192 on TOSLINK, some sources don't bother with the high speed transmitter. (which bothers me a bit since the difference in price is small, $5 for the high speed and $3.50 for the slow speed) Even with a slow speed transmitter it is possible to do 192 with a little extra electronics to "clean up" the signal coming from the high speed receiver, but that costs more money and development time etc, and some companies just don't want to deal with that. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Constantly losing TOUCH
Waldo Pepper wrote: > I have never got DHCP to work with my Logitech devices so have been on > fixed IP since day one. I assume the router will not DHCP out IP's > assigned that are fixed. Does this have to be set up manually as I have > never bothered and does it assign from the lowest address upwards? My > laptop/netbook and tablet all work fine with DHCP. > The DHCP server doesn't know about the fixed addresses, you have to explicitely assign IP addresses that are not in the "pool" the DHCP server uses. The only way tofind out what addresses the DHCP servere uses is to log in to the router and go to the DHCP configuration page. For example my router uses 100-200 as the DHCP pool, so stuff below 100 and above 200 are fair game for static addresses. But some routers will use 2-200 as the pool, others use 100-254 as the pool, so there is no way to choose something that is guaranteed to work, you have to find out what your router is doing. On most routers you can change it to whatever you want, so even if your SB stuff is in the pool you can change the pool. There is another issue, if the computer running LMS is running DHCP, some routers will change the IP address every time it renews the DHCP lease. In some environments this changing IP address of the server can cause the players to not find the server. To get around this problem I set my server to a fixed address and let DHCP set the address of the players, for me this seems to work much better than the server address changing and the players being fixed. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96736 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Constantly losing TOUCH
First I'd like to make it clear in my own mind what your setup looks like, it sounds like you have a Touch, running TinyLMS with a USB stick containing the music library. The Radios connect to the TinyLMS on the Touch via Wifi. Is the Touch the only LMS? It sounds like the problem is the Radios not being able to connect to the TinyLMS on the Touch, correct? When this happens, can the Touch still play music? If the Touch can still play music then Tiny LMS is still running, and the problem is most likely a network issue. I can think of two probable causes, one is just wifi connectivity issues, but that would tend to not be exactly the same for the two Radios (unless they are right next to each other). The other is DHCP issues. I've seen this before, the devices all get leases from the DHCP server when they boot and everything is fine, but then some hours later the leases expire and they don't get renewed, thus the router won't talk to them. Two common reasons for this are a router that has been on for a long time (for some reason some DHCP servers seem to get slower and slower the longer the router is on) and interference on the wifi link can cause the DHCP server to time out. The first thing to try is to reboot the network: modem, router, switches, WAPs etc. This frequently will fix the problem. If it doesn't, try temporarily connecting a Radio to the network with a wire and see if the problem persists. If neither of those helps then it's going to take some more serious debugging. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96736 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
Johnnyg34 wrote: > I started to follow the instructions above and got stopped at number 2. > I got the message on my SB to set up a web browser in logitech media > manager. Does anyone know how to do this. I searched through the media > mgr but could not figure it out.. > > Thanks > > Confused> Could you give a detailed description of exactly what you did (what screen you were at and what button you pushed) and exactly what happened, did a separate window pop up with the message, did it show up at the top or bottom (or whatever), and what exactly the message was. Thanks, John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
furfurrain wrote: > Is it possible work if usb output to my usbdac (keces da-151) ? Yes it should work. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch bought from US Aamazon.com not new!
Mnyb wrote: > Yes the metal stand is not blue :) ;) I always leave the blue on, I like it! John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96431 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Setting up a Touch without connecting to mysb.com
Supertramp wrote: > Can Triode's EDO and Display Off components also be installed without > mysqueezebox.com. I have been looking under the plug-ins section in the > LMS web client, however I cannot find them. Just like to make sure I can > (re-)setup my SB Touch as a USB streaming client post the msb.com era. > By the way, I already downloaded the components from triodeapplets. > > Thank you in advance!! EDO is an applet (plugins run on the server and are written in perl, applets run on the player and are written in lua). It is loaded by the Applet Installer which is part of the firmware, so it's always there. The Applet Installer keeps a list of "repositories" (URLs) where it looks for applets. By default it has the standard Logitech repository, but you can add as many repositories as you want to the list. So as long as the internet is working you can get at a repository that any developer "hosts". There IS a way to manually install an applet from a USB stick, but it's not all all that easy, not recommended unless the internet itself goes away! I can just see it: in a post apocolyptic world a bunch of squeezebox fanatics exchange a few old USB sticks containing firmware and applets and some precious tracks of music, still usable after all those years. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96209 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Setting up a Touch without connecting to mysb.com
garym wrote: > My understanding is that the TOUCH and RADIO do *not* get their firmware > from the local LMS (unlike the older players). Of course with the TOUCH > there is a method for updating the firmware on a USB drive or SD Card. > I also have two new radios and I was going to do the same thing (but > they do not have the usb or SD card option of the TOUCH). In normal operation they DO get the firmware from a local LMS, BUT that LMS does not come with the firmware, it has to go online to get the firmware. So as long as the update.slimdevices.com stays around the local LMS can get the firmware. The USB stick approach is only for when: You don't have a local LMS You have a local LMS, but it's not connected to the internet You have a local LMS, it IS connected to the internet, but update.slimdevices.com has gone bye-bye. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96209 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Setting up a Touch without connecting to mysb.com
pallfreeman wrote: > Is "Factory Reset" really what it says? I get the impression it isn't, > but maybe there's some way to make it so? The Touch uses a union file system. It has the filesystem in the firmware image (the fab4.bin) and a "changed" filesystem. Any changes to any files in the firmware and any new files go in the changed filesystem. At runtime you see the union of these two filesystems. The "factory reset" clears the changed filesystem. The firmware stays exactly the same. It just gets rid of any configuration changes you have made. It puts the firmware back to a "factory fresh" state, it does NOT load the same firmware that was in the Touch when it came out of the box. Different people seem to interpret the term "factory reset" differently. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96209 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Setting up a Touch without connecting to mysb.com
gharris999 wrote: > John: I don't think you've answered my question...which is: how does one > set up a -BRAND NEW- SBTouch that's never been powered on before without > having to connect to mysb.com? > > The procedure you describe above seems to be for a SBTouch that's > already been configured for the network and, as far as I can tell, must > have connected to mysb.com at least once. > > What are the steps? I.e., from power-on and the "pick language" prompt, > what should one do next? > > Thanks.. My latest post (the one quoted) WAS for a brand new Touch straight out of the box. The procedure got it up and running off TinyLMS without ever having plugged in an ethernet cable or connected to wifi. At that point you can manually select ethernet or wifi and connect to your local LMS if you wish. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96209 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Setting up a Touch without connecting to mysb.com
gharris999 wrote: > Wha?? Sorry, I fell asleep holding the left corner. > > Seriously, left remote button press didn't work; swiping didn't work; > pressing and holding the upper left corner didn't work. I'd like to > hear confirmation from JohnSwenson that pressing and holding the upper > left corner did work for him with a new, just out of the box SBTouch > (i.e. original firmware) with no internet connection. Yes I did, here is the procedure: Put a modern firmware (say 7.7.2) fab4.bin in the root dir of a clean USB stick. (it doesn't have to be completely empty, but it definitely should NOT contain a music library or any other media files) Disconnect everything from the Touch, NO ethernet cable. Plugin the USB stick. Plugin the power cord. You will get the spinney thingy trying to connect to mysqueezebox.com. Let it do that, after a couple minutes it will give up and you will get a screen saying you have no network connection. NOW press and hold upper left arrow. This will get you to a home menu (this one has no icons, it looks very different but it works). Select Setup->Advanced->Software Update. You will see a screen that says install from media, under that is one menu item that says Begin Update, select that. This loads the firmware and reboots. You will get the normal home menu with icons etc. Select USB Device->Eject. Take out the USB stick. What you do next depends on how you want to use the touch. If you want to use TinyLMS plugin the USB drive (or stick) with the music library and continue as normal. Let it scan the library. Then go to My Music and select the server on the Touch if it doesn't automatically connect to it. If you want to connect to LMS on another computer select Setting->Advanced->Networking->Choose Network, select either wifi or ethernet. Let it make the connection, then go to My music and select your LMS. (or mysqueezebox.com, but the whole purpose of this was to NOT connect to mysqueezebox.com) At this point you should be fully up and running. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96209 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Setting up a Touch without connecting to mysb.com
JJZolx wrote: > Thanks, John. Did you say that the initial from-the-factory setup > differs from an after-factory-reset setup? (Maybe it was someone else.) The out of the box initial setup and the "factory reset" setup may be the same, but I'm not sure, remember that the factory reset does not change the firmware, so if you have upgraded to say 7.7.2 you get THAT initial setup code rather than the 6.4 initial setup code in the out of the box Touch. They seem to behave and look exactly the same, but I'm not sure if there have been any changes in the code. I guess a SVN diff on the sources would be the way to check for sure. They both call the SetupWelcome applet. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96209 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Setting up a Touch without connecting to mysb.com
JJZolx wrote: > I'm pretty certain that a left-right swipe accomplishes the same thing, > unless it's been removed from recent firmware. Both actions take you > Home from anywhere in the navigational structure. The swipe is specifically turned off in the initial setup section. There is code in there that turns off all the "normal" over-ride methods and specifically turns on the "press and hold in the left corner". Everywhere else the swipe works, but not in the initial setup. I tried it with my brand new out of the box Touch and the swipe does not work in the initial setup, but the left corner hold does. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96209 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Setting up a Touch without connecting to mysb.com
pallfreeman wrote: > No offense intended, but: LOL. I started to type in my "configuration" > then realised I'd be here all night. :) > > Let's just say it's a large and complicated configuration, and what I > want to do is to be able to set up a Touch without it connecting to the > outside world, without disconnecting anything else, and with a minimum > of fuss. So far we have two options: try to configure the Touch whilst > disconnected (which reportedly doesn't work) then plug it in the usual > network to download the firmware, or plug it into a non-routed network > with just it and the LMS connected to perform both config and d/l. > > I'll find out what works when (if... no, don't think that, it's *when*) > Amazon send my "reserve" touch for use when Logitech completely shitcan > the Squeezeboxes. OK so lets say you want to setup a static IP on the Touch and connect it to a network that already has LMS running on a computer on the network. Lets assume for the moment that they will be on the same subnet. First off you have to connect an ethernet cable to the Touch and the other end to something else active that is NOT on your network. For me the easiest way is to directly plug it into a laptop (not the network switch). It can be any other computer, a switch that is not connected to anything else, really it just needs to be anything that has a powered up ethernet jack that is NOT connected to the network. Boot the Touch. If this is a Touch that had been used before you will need to make sure you are pointing at the wired ethernet jack, not wifi. You can do this by selecting settings->advanced->networking->choose network->ethernet At this point it should try and connect to a DHCP server and fail, it will then bring up the screen that lets you enter a fixed IP address, mask, gatway etc. You now have a static IP on the Touch. You can then connect to the network and boot up. If the Touch is brand new out of the box it will try and connect to mysqueezebox.com. If it has a connection to the internet this might succeed. When it asks if you want to register you can press and hold the upper left arrow to get out of that. If there is no connection to the internet it will be stuck trying to connect. Again press and hold the upper left to get out. If the Touch has already been setup before it will not go through the "have to connect to mysqueezebox,com" part. If the server is on the same subnet it should find it. If the LMS computer is on a different subnet you will have to manually enter it's IP address (in this case it's important to have a fixed address or at least a reserved one for the server). For the next part I don't remember the exact sequence, I don't have the Touch in front of me now. You go to MyMusic and scroll down to the bottom, we want to get to remote library, it's either at the bottom of the list or you have to select something like choose server first. Anyway the remode library screen lets you enter the IP address of the LMS computer. Once the Touch is connected to LMS it will check the firmware revision. If it doesn't match the LMS version several things can happen. If the server already has the correct firmware in it's cache it will install it on the Touch. If the server doesn't have it, it will attempt to get it off the internet. If it can't get to the repository on the internet it will let you know the firmware is out of date. If that happens you will have to install the firmware using the USB stick. This should get you up and running. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96209 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
lake_eleven wrote: > I connected HRT MS II+ DAC directly to the touch without the hub. The > sound was much refined with low noise floor. it was a really big > difference. > Will there be a fix from Logitech or other 3rd party to deal with this > issue of needing to use hub to connect an async dac. I have a HRT MSII and have done extensive tests between hub and no hub and don't hear any difference sound quality wise. Of course without the Hub I get clicks and pops. (other things make significant changes in the sound of the MSII so I'm pretty confident it's not an issue of the system not being good enough to hear the difference) So if the hub is making it sound worse it is probably something about thatparticular hub. Is it bus powered or external powered? My hub has the option of going either way, if yours does you might want to try it the other way around. BTW I'm using a cheap little $5 mobile hub from my local computer store. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Setting up a Touch without connecting to mysb.com
pallfreeman wrote: > I'm pretty sure I suggested that in another thread and somebody told me > it wouldn't work. > > Oh well. I'll just have to try it for meself. I'm confused now about what your configuration is and what exactly you want to do. Please reitterate here and we can probably come up with a solution. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96209 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Setting up a Touch without connecting to mysb.com
OK, I found out how to do the setup out of box or after a factory reset without mysqueezebox.com. The basic thing to know is that when you are in a screen that is not going anywhere or trying to connect to mysqueezebox.com or some other screen which wants you to do something you don't want to do, you can press and HOLD the arrow key in the upper left corner, this gets you out of the process. Even if the arrow doesn't show up on the screen it still works, just press the upper left corner and let it sit there for a few seconds. So details of a few scenarios: brand new Touch, local LMS, connected to ethernet, mysqueezebox.com still up and running but you don't want to register. Get the fab4.bin for the server you are running from http://update.slimdevices.com. Put this in the root directory of a USB stick, it's best if there is nothing else on it. Do NOT plug in the USB stick yet. Plug in the power, let it go through the setup process, it will connect to mysqueezebox.com and ask you to register, at this point press and hold the upper left corner, this will get you out and bring you to the home menu. Press my music and try and connect to your LMS. This may or may not load the correct firmware. If it does not, pull the power, plug in the USB stick and plug the power back in, after boot you should get a message asking if you want to install the firmware, agree, the firmware should load and reboot, you should be up and running. If you don't get a message asking to install the firmware go to settings->advanced->update firmware->install from media. The same but either mysqueezebox.com doesn't exist or you don't have an internet connection, but you DO have a local network. Do the same as above but when you get to the screen trying to connect to mysqueezebox.com, press and hold the upper left corner, this will get you out. Connect to the server or load the firmware from USB. If your are doing a factory reset the above still applies but you don't need to load the firmware since it is already on your Touch. You don't have a network connection at all (completely self contained). Do NOT plug in your music drive yet, somehow get the firmware and put it on a USB stick. Plug the stick into the Touch. Plug the power in. Follow the prompts. When you get to the screen saying you don't have a network connection, press and hold the upper left arrow, this gets you to a main menu. Select settings->advanced->update firmware->install from media. This will load the firmware from the stick and reboot. Unplug the Touch and plug in the music drive, plug in the Touch, you should now be running standalone. If you have a network connection but no DHCP server (router) it will ask you to enter a static IP, choose what you want for this and continue. I have tried these scenarios and they do work. If you need to (re)setup without mysqueezebox.com give it a try. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96209 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Setting up a Touch without connecting to mysb.com
Yesterday I got a new Touch in and tried a number of things to try and get it setup without connecting to mysb.com. No luck. The intial screen that tries to connect to mysb.com cannot be over-ridden with the "swipe". I tried putting the firmware on a USB stick, that made no difference. I tried connecting to a DHCP server but no internet connection, no difference. I'm leaving this one in a pristine state for now so I can use it to test options. >From looking at the boot code on my other Touch there is a variable that gets set once the initial setup is complete, which bypasses that code from therafter. So it looks like all we have to do is write a script (with the correct name) that sets this variable, put it and the new firmware on the USB stick and boot from that. The boot code that reads the script looks like it happens significantly earlier than the variable test so theoretically it should work. I'll have to spend some more time looking into this and work out the details of the script. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96209 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Setting up a Touch without connecting to mysb.com
cliveb wrote: > John - thanks for the detailed info. Your reply arrived while I was in > the middle of composing my previous follow-up. > > One final question: if I were to load the correct firmware from a USB > stick, does that mean it need not connect to mysb.com at all? Is there > some step in the initial setup that gives you the option to skip > connecting to mysb.com and go straight to a local LMS? > I've never actually tried it, but I think there are some people that have. I don't remember the results. And if it really becomes an issue the code that does the connect to mysb.com is just lua code that CAN be modified one way or another. At boot time the Touch looks for a specific file on a USB stick or SD card, that file could contain a patch script that modifies the lua code that tries to connect to mysb.com. I don't know if anybody has actually done it, but it certainly can be done. So even if mysb.com goes down, the comminity will figure out some way to boot a Touch from scratch. (at least as long as USB sticks or SD cards exist!) (anybody rememebr 5 1/4 floppies? 8 inch floppies?) John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96209 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Setting up a Touch without connecting to mysb.com
Benefactor wrote: > Pardon my very dumb question, but do you mean just browse to your local > music library? > > I just picked up a 2 Touch units as "spares", and want to make sure they > are set up correctly before I put them away for safekeeping. That is correct, just go to the music on your local server and it will ask to install the firmware that matches the version of the server you have. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96209 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Setting up a Touch without connecting to mysb.com
cliveb wrote: > I am a long time SB user (since 2005) but have never owned a Touch. Nor > have I ever used mysb.com. I use a local library and occasionally listen > to some internet radio via the local LMS (version 7.6.1). Given the > recent news from Logitech, I'm contemplating buying some backup players > for the time when my existing players (Transporter, SB2, Duet) might > die. And of course my only option appears to the Touch. > > Reading around, it seems that the simplest way to set up a Touch is to > connect it to mysb.com. > > So, some questions: > > 1. On initial setup, can a Touch be connected to a local LMS rather than > mysb.com? If so, how? > > 2. If a Touch is connected to a local LMS, does that local LMS provide > the necessary Touch firmware, in the same way it does for the older > players? > > 3. If the answer to Q2 is no, my understanding is that the firmware can > be downloaded onto a USB stick and loaded from there. In whcih case: > a). What version of the Touch firmware would be appropriate for LMS > 7.6.1? (I don't see any reason to change the version of LMS I run). > b). Where can I find instructions on loading the firmware onto the > Touch? > > 4. Are there any other reasons why a Touch needs to be connected to > mysb.com that I have missed? The easiest way to bring up a Touch is to connect it to the internet so it starts up going to mysb.com, this will load the latest firmware (7.7.2 these days). Go ahead let it do that. Then connect to your local 7.6.1 SBS, this will change the firmware to the right version for your local server. If you buy some backup Touches, do that with all of them while mysb.com is still up and running, from then on you can run without having anything to do with mysb.com. the indications are that mysb.com is going to be around for quite sometime, but may not last as long as the hardware does. You CAN load firmware from a USB stick or SD card ( old firmware versions are at http://update.slimdevices.com it might not be a bad idea to go grab the firmware for all your existing devices as well as the Touch just in case these web sites don't stick around). The Touch uses fab4.bin the radio is babyxx.bin the controller part of the duet is jive.bin. I think the firmware for the SB2/3 and player in the duet is squeezebox2xxx.bin. To install a firmware from USB stick, copy the fab4xxx.bin file to the root directory of the stick as fab4.bin. Unplug the Touch. Plug the stick into the Touch, reboot the Touch, durring the reboot process you should be given the option to load the firmware on the stick. But as long as the local server has the firmware it can always update the Touch without having to do that. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96209 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
Do you know what the USB chip actually is? The literature is very vague about what USB chip is used. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Digital burps
Do the files by any chance have embedded cover art? That can add a significant amount of overhead to TinyLMS. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96022 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
jean2 wrote: > I'm sorry, but this does not make sense on multiple levels. The > processor has most likely a serial and JTAG insterface, however the > hardware guys did not put a RS232 console or JTAG connector on the back. > With the cost and leadtime of industrial design, the decision to add a > hole in the plastic for the USB connector and a USB connector on the > motherboard was not a trivial one, definitely not an afterthought. > What also does not make sense is that after deciding to put the USB on > the back, there was still plenty of time to upgrade the memory chip for > larger one, it's not like the software had no experience about the > server requirements. So, there may be some truth that the HW and SW team > were quite uncoordinated on that feature. > > Regards, > > Jean I know from talking to some of the people involved that the Touch hardware was not designed to run a server, I think the original thinking was that since the USB and SD card interface were available in the processor they would put the connectors on the box, with the idea that they would be used to store images for use with a "photo frame" screensaver. The whole idea of putting a server on it came after the initial hardware was up and running and they found that about half the cpu cycles and half the memory was not being used. It was a "lets see if we can figure out what to do with those resources thing". Sort of like the people that try and run PacMan on a camera LCD screen. Then marketing heard it was running, and low and behold it was now a "feature" that had to work! As to why the hardware was not modified to run the server better once it became a feature, that I don't know. Probably along the lines of, "the design is done, no way are we sinking any more money into this thing". I don't think having a USB port was part of the original concept of the device, I think it came about when the designers were looking at the processor and saying "there is a USB port on this , would it be useful to have a jack for it on the box? Then the management bought in to having it there for photo frame use. I think it was an afterthought in the sense that it was not part of the original concept for the design, but got added later on in the design process. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
The reason you need the server is because thats the way the entire squeezebox system was designed. It was designed from the ground up as a SYSTEM of server and players, the players get their audio data from the server over a network. All the squeezebox "players" have used this system. The Touch is the first hardware in the squeezebox line that had any capability of having media attached to it (which as far as I can tell was an after thought, the processor had a USB port on it so the hardware guys put the plug on the back). The result is that all the software on the Touch is written for the squeezebox system, audio data comes to the player over a network from a server. After they got the hardware working some of the programmers started thinking "hey I wonder if we could get a server to run on the Touch", well it didn't. They had to start turning off all kinds of functionality but they finally got it to run on the Touch hardware. This is the "tiny" server. The reason you can't just "play a file" is that it was never designed to do so. It would take throwing away the existing software and rewriting it as a dumb player. Actually it would probably be easier to write a "dumb server" that used the existing protocol to talk to the exisiting player software. But nobody has written that yet. The problem with such a server is that invariably "feature creep" will set in. Somebody will want just one extra piece of info on the screen. Just one more way to find music in a big library. Just a slightly more sophisticated way to build a playlist etc. Pretty soon the sleek, simple fast server is now a big bloated thing all over again. So unless you or someone else wants to write the "just play the file" server or player, you are kind of stuck with using the existing TinyLMS. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Performance expectations with a USB Stick and FLAC
You have to remember that there are two types of scans, the initial full scan and then the "quick scan" which is invoked every boot after that. The first time you plug in a drive with a bunch of music it will not have a database on the stick, so it will do a full scan of all the files, it reads all the music files looking for tags and processes all the cover art. This can take a long time, anywhere from 1/2 hour to several hours. >From there on when the Touch boots it does a quick scan of the files, at this point it's just looking up the file name in the database and seeing if the date matches. This can take 30 seconds to a couple minutes at most. IF it finds files that are either not in the database or which have a newer date than what is in the database, then it will do a full scan on these files only. If you leave the Touch on all the time and leave the USB stick permanently connected then it will never have to do the quick scan and you can instantly get to any of your music. That initial full scan can be a problem for some people. For some reason some people's files seem to cause problems with the scanner (frequently related to cover art) which causes the scanner to crash so it never finishes the initial scan, which means it's always taking a long time to start up after a boot because it's always running the initial scan. Interestingly the same files scan just file when the server is on a real computer. Some people will try and play music while the initial scan is in progress, this is a recipe for disaster, this radically increases the probability that the initial scan will crash. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96141 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Automatic brightness control
toby10 wrote: > You can turn off the auto brightness, set to manual, then adjust > brightness to desired level. Now it should always stay the same > brightness. Not completely true, there is a slight dimming of the display which always happens a few seconds after you stop touching the screen, this will always happen, no matter what else is going on. My understanding was that this was added to increase the life of the screen. There is no way way to change this behavior from the menus. You CAN SSH into the Touch and change the code, but supposedly that could lead to decreased life of the screen. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93829 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Seeking SBT Hard- & Software "Architecture" Description
Too many questions here to reply to each separately. When using one of the software players on a computer on your network (hardwired or wifi) it connects to the server just like any other SB player. IF you are using the tinyLMS on the Touch it can actually serve music to a software player on a laptop, but just beware of the limitations. LMS on a real computer can handle many players at once. In my house we actually use all three of the software players mentioned. My wife has an older SB3 in her sewing room so she likes to use SoftSqueeze on here laptop since the interface is the same as the SB3. I use the Touch in a couple lacations in the House so I use SqueezePlay on my laptop which gives the same display as the Touch. The computer is the office has both SoftSqueeze and SqueezePlay, my wife uses SoftSqueeze when she is in there and I use SqueezePlay whenI am in there. I also have SqueezeSlave running on al old fanless EPIA board running linux connected to a USB DAC in one of the rooms. (I generally use an Android app to control this system) Aaack! my computer just went crazy, I need to send this before I shut it down, I'll respond more later. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96003 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Seeking SBT Hard- & Software "Architecture" Description
jeromeharris wrote: > Has anyone posted a function-oriented description of the various > hardware and software elements of the SBT--sort of a "system > architecture" portrait? You asked for it! I'll describe the architecture for the newer devices such as the SBT, it's slightly different for the older devices. The squeeze box system architecture consists of three logical parts: servers, players and controllers connected by a network. These do NOT have to be separate boxes. The server is the brains of the operation. Servers send audio data to players, the players can only play what they get sent by a server. There are two basic categories of server: local server (currently called LMS) and the server in the cloud: MySqueezeBox.com. LMS manages a collection of music files, it keeps a database of information about each of these files, name, artist, album, year etc. In most cases this information is stored in tags embedded in the files. (It can come from other sources, but thats another discussion). The server allows the user to search through this information in various ways to choose what music to listen to. After the user chooses a selection of files to listen to it reads the files and streams the audio data to one or more players over the network. There are several different stream formats supported, the user can choose which to use. LMS can also connect to music streams over the internet (internet radio) and stream this to the players. MySqueezeBox.com is implemented by big server computers located in various locations around the world implementing MANY MANY instances of s special server. This server serves two primary purposes, it allows players to receive music when you don't have a local LMS server (or it's turned off) and it is the gateway to internet based "music services" (Pandora, Rhapsody etc) The logical player is a black box, audio data comes in over the network and audio of some form comes out. Note there is NO user interface on this logical construct. The user interface exists in the controller entity. The controller is the user interface for the system. It talks to a SERVER, NOT a player. It tells the server to start sending audio to a specific player. It sends queries to the server (to find music by different criteria), displays the results and send the user's slection back to the server. Most of the servers actually contain a controller in the form of a web page as well These different logical parts of the system can come in different combinations in actual hardware. For example the Touch has all three. The Duet comes with a separte black box player and separate hand held controller. There are several software players, so you can listen to the music on your laptop etc. Some have controlers, some do not. There are controller programs that run on all kinds of computers, and controller apps for iPhones, iPads and android devices. You can also get player apps for these as well so you can plug a headphone into the phone and listen to the music as well as using it to control the hardware devices. The parts in the hardware devices are not dedicated to each other, although they usually work that way. For example you can use the controller in the Touch to control the player in another SB and use your phone to control the player in the Touch. You can have the Player in the Touch connected to MySqueezeBox.com while the server in the Touch is sending music to a software player on a laptop. It's an incredibly flexible system. The server in the Touch is "special", it's called TinyLMS, it's the same server but it has a lot of stuff turned off so it will fit in the small amount of memory in the Touch hardware. It's not exactly what you would call "rock solid, plug and play", it's trying to do a lot on very limited resources and if you are not careful it can become a very frustrating experience. It sounds like from your post you are NOT a person who would relish the task of getting TinyLMS to do what you want. This is not to say it's useless, some people manage to use it just fine, but others are constantly fighting it. My impression here is that you would probably be better off with a server on a separate computer. This does NOT have to be a full blown expensive computer, it can be a something like a SheevaPlug (which looks like a wall wart power supply, but is actually a computer) which costs $100. You plug your USB drive into it and plug the ethernet into the network or directly into the Touch. There are MANY choices for a server and how you can hookup a system. You can use an already existing computer, but when that computer is turned off, you can't get any music out of it. If a computer has WOL (Wake On Lan) the server can be sleeping when not playing music and the Touch can tell it to wake up when you want to listen to music. Many of us hard core SqueezBox users have dedicated music servers, because the music goes over the network you can st
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
Turnandcough wrote: > Thank you for the straightforward answer. A flac stream carries sample rate information which knows about 192. The method of streaming PCM didn't know about 176 and 192, this was added to 7.8. Note that you have to have both the 7.8 server and the 7.8 firmware in the Touch (both sides have to know about 192). Some people have upgraded to the 7.8 server and the Touch firmware did not automatically update, this is going to give you really weird results! If your are either streaming flac, or are streaming PCM and have 7.8 both for the server AND firmware in the Touch and you still have this issue of only playing the firsttrack, then there is something strange going on. 192 PCM is sending a LOT of bits down the network, if you are running Wifi or have some issues in your network that could cause a problem. Alternatively if the server is running on a slow computer you could also have a problem with this. Near the end of a song the server starts sending the next song while the player is still playing the last few seconds of the first song. It's also sending stuff like the cover artand song info. With a system that is just barely keeping up with sending 192 the extra stuff sent at the end of the first song could cause a problem. Let's not forget the obvious, do you have random play turned off? This has tripped up many a person (including me!) John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
soundcheck wrote: > Hi folks. > > Havn't been around for a while. Just got back to the Touch (after > running my iPad as player for a while) > > Got a question. Not sure if it's a known or my problem. I didn't scan > the last 60 pages of this thread. > > I have LMS 7.7.2 under Linux running and latest EDO installed. Somehow > not any native PCM streaming (flac gets decoded on the server) is > working. Local flac decoding on the Touch works. > > What am I doing wrong here? > > Thx folks. > > Ahh one more question: Is the screenoff plugin supposed to turn the > screen completely off as I'm doing it with the Toolbox? 192 (and 176.4) will not work with PCM streaming. With PCM streaming the sample rate is sent via a separate command, but that command doesn't have anyway tospecify 176 or 192. With FLAC streaming the sample rate is included in the FLAC header, which DOES know how to specify 176 and 192. The latest and greatest beta 7.8 LMS has been upgraded so the sample rate command knows about the higher sample rates so PCM streaming will work. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] 7 inch tablet to replace Touch ?
Whether a 7" tablet is going to be big enough from across the room is going to depend very much on you and your eye sight. Subjectively they are quite a bit bigger than the screen on the Touch. But of course a 10" is quite a bit bigger. Erland has a really nice "now playing" android app called "Squeeze Display" that is designed specifically for the case where you want to use an android tablet to show what is currently playing, it's NOT a controller, it just shows the current song. If all you want is something to be able to see the current song from across the room it works great. The one caveat is that it has to be at least android 2.1. I did quick check and there are quite a few inexpensive 7" tablets that run 4.0 which should work great with this app. But there are also a fair number of cheap 7" tablets that run 1.8 or 2.0, so make sure the one you have runs at least 2.1. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95752 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
lake_eleven wrote: > The gain is set to MAX. I am thinking if this hub is an issue. > http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1306462&CatId=4753 I'm not talking about the volume, I'm talking about "replay gain" which is a tag that some files carry which causes the volume to be changed at playback time. This is primarily used so that different songs can have the same "volume" when you put them together in a playlist. For example a very loud song would have a replay gain tag that would say play this song softer than normal, a very soft song might have a tag that says play louder than normal. If your file happens to have a replay gain tag that says to play the song very softly, it doesn't matter that the main volume is set to max, it will play softly. This replay gain function can be turned on or off in the setup menus of the Touch. The easy way to test this is to make sure that replay gain is turned off on the Touch and see if that makes any difference to the volume. You do this by going to the: Settings->Audio Settings->Volume Adjustment and select "No Volume Adjustment". If they still play soft I would bring the file up in a waveform editor and see if they really are soft. It might very well be soft to begin with. If the original master tape was recorded with a low level of compression then overall average level can be quite low in order to have room to properly preserve transients. If the people that did the hi res master didn't add extra compression, the average level in the file could very well be soft. One way to test this is to take a file you already have which plays at a correct level and resample it in software up to 24/96 and try playing that, if THAT plays softly and replay gain is turned off then there is an unusual issue somewhere along the line. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Changes to Touch Screen functions (or am I going mad?)
joe90 wrote: > Thanks All - So it looks like a TT3 bug, shame because it did subtly > change the sound to my liking but I guess that's another story... Can > any of the TT3 aficionados out there confirm whether they have > experienced this also as I would like to have it all!! i.e TT3 (minus IR > & Screen disable) with interchangeable Screen and Remote functions?? As has been mentioned earlier there is a way to set the font so it stays with the small font and buttons even when using the IR remote, as long as you are willing to live with that when using the remote it should be good for you. I don't remember the exact page it's on and I don't have the Touch in front of me, others can tell you where it is. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95725 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] How to backup "everything" on SBT?
diego wrote: > In my experience, and I have used it many times, when you hold the > buttom 10 seconds, it starts factory reset. Does nothing else, even if > you press it longer. But I might be wrong... > > > > I can reinstall my old windows 3.1 to my old notebook with the backup > image I have for this purpose any time in case something would mess > up... the SBT is a computer, so it would be nice to have the same > functionality. However, you are right, if a DVD player gets an error in > its firmware, you probably won't get it to work anymore at home either. As has been mentioned you can always load a firmware version from a USB stick or SD card even if the flash is trashed, as long as the equivalent of the BIOS (the boot loader) is intact. If you are woried about logitech not supporting things in the future, grab a version of the firmware you like and put it on a USB stick and keep that in your fireproof safe. (you probably want a CD or stick of the matching server as well) That should keep you going for a LONG time no matter what else happens. If the bootloader gets trashed recovering is a little more difficult. You need to open the Touch up and attach a special cable which attaches to a serial port on your computer running special software that will program a new bootloader into the Touch, not something most users are going to do. Fortunately the probability of the bootloader going bad is VERY low. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95594 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
lake_eleven wrote: > The vol is set to max. The issue is only with 24/96 flacs. 24/96 flacs play back fine on my HRT StremerII (using a hub). The only thing I can think of is that you might have replay gain turned on and the 24/96 files have a low volume replay gain tag. You can turn off replay gain and see if that makes any difference. I think it's called volume adjustments in the audio settings area. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Announce: Enhanced Digital Output app - USB Dac and 192k Digital Ouput
bheffernan wrote: > I am thinking of purchasing an HRT Music Streamer II to use with the > Enhanced Digital Output app. > One question I had was does will the USB port continue to provide > power as the HRT does not have a power supply. > Hopefully I posted this question correctly this is the first time in > this blog. > Thanks in advance For the HRT StreamerII line to work properly you need a USB2 hub. The hub can either be bus powered or externally powered, either way works fine. The Touch supplies plenty of power for the HRT devices, the reason you need a hub is that there is a bug in the Touch hardware which prevents it from running async with a full speed DAC (such as the HRTs), the USB2 hub talks high speed to the Touch and full speed to the DAC and thus circumvents the bug. You CAN use an externally powered hub if you like, but it's not required. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94512 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Oldtimer looking to upgrade to Touch withoutdowngrading to mysb.com
Just to reiterate what others have said, mysqueezebox.com is NOT repeat NOT used in anyway when you connect the Touch to your local server and play files located on that server. It will be used for certain online services as Erland mentioned. Going directly to internet radio stations will also not use mysqueezebox.com. The reason you are asked to login when inittially starting the Touch is to get the latest firmware, what is in it out of the box is almost useless. IF you are willing to load the firmware from an SD card or USB stick you never have to have the Touch connect to the internet, period. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95617 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
