Viesturs,
regardless of possible tuning questions, if I recall right, you are
using a 24 volts supply for the stepper amplifiers. This seems a little
low to me as I was using 90 volts on my dual Parker Hannifing
amplifier/driver. I had stepper motors attached to the two slides of my
lathe and
Peter, just as the name of threads says, I am trying to tune servo
motors, not steppers :)
I just checked - the supply voltage is 27,9 VDC, because 7i39 drives
have 28 VDC limit.
Ohh, and there is update:
The motor that yesterday worked fine at 4000 mm/min, today is not
working fine at that speed
So, looking at one of the links for servo tuning is our
FF0 = Velocity Feed Forward Gain.
FF1 = Position Feed Forward Gain.
FF2 = Acceleration Feed Forward Gain or Friction Feed Forward Gain.
I would like to update the docs with some descriptive text in addition
to 0th order feed forward gain
On 29 January 2012 13:23, John Thornton bjt...@gmail.com wrote:
So, looking at one of the links for servo tuning is our
FF0 = Velocity Feed Forward Gain.
FF1 = Position Feed Forward Gain.
FF2 = Acceleration Feed Forward Gain or Friction Feed Forward Gain.
I would like to update the docs
On dom, 2012-01-29 at 14:04 +0200, Viesturs Lācis wrote:
Peter, just as the name of threads says, I am trying to tune servo
motors, not steppers :)
I just checked - the supply voltage is 27,9 VDC, because 7i39 drives
have 28 VDC limit.
Ohh, and there is update:
The motor that yesterday
2012/1/29 Spiderdab 77...@tiscali.it:
Hallo Viesturs, i don't remember who suggested, but i've read, with
those encoders, it's better to glue them to the rotating axle, because
they can slip at high speeds and during fast accelerations.
Thanks! I already did that this morning. Did not help...
On 29 January 2012 15:10, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote:
I am now reading a thread, started by Jon Elson in June 2011 on
developers' list about these encoders. It turns out that they have
acceleration lag, so overall conclusion - do not use them in CNC
machine!
I have yet to
Sorry, Viesturs, that was a language glitch of mine. Servo is used in
German as a general classification for anything moving with power
assistance, above all in the motor vehicle sector, e. g. Servolenkung
(power steering) or Servobremse (power brake) as well as in Ruderservo
(RC model
2012/1/29 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com:
On 29 January 2012 15:10, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote:
I am now reading a thread, started by Jon Elson in June 2011 on
developers' list about these encoders. It turns out that they have
acceleration lag, so overall conclusion - do not
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
Peter, just as the name of threads says, I am trying to tune servo
motors, not steppers :)
I just checked - the supply voltage is 27,9 VDC, because 7i39 drives
have 28 VDC limit.
Ohh, and there is update:
The motor that yesterday worked fine at 4000 mm
On 29 January 2012 15:47, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote:
I took one of them off, I see 4 DIP switches, but do not see a jumper.
Their manual also does not show, where on that pcb jumper would be located.
http://www.amtencoder.com/Resources/Frequently-Asked-Questions#3
--
atp
On Sunday, January 29, 2012 12:00:01 PM andy pugh did opine:
On 29 January 2012 13:23, John Thornton bjt...@gmail.com wrote:
So, looking at one of the links for servo tuning is our
FF0 = Velocity Feed Forward Gain.
FF1 = Position Feed Forward Gain.
FF2 = Acceleration Feed Forward Gain
On 1/29/2012 8:10 AM, andy pugh wrote:
On 29 January 2012 13:23, John Thorntonbjt...@gmail.com wrote:
So, looking at one of the links for servo tuning is our
FF0 = Velocity Feed Forward Gain.
FF1 = Position Feed Forward Gain.
FF2 = Acceleration Feed Forward Gain or Friction Feed Forward
On 29 January 2012 17:31, gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:
What if the spring is either too much or too little, this seems to invite
the need for a non-symmetrical FF0 function.
You could account for the constant offset with the PID bias term.
--
atp
The idea that there is no such thing
John Thornton wrote:
So, looking at one of the links for servo tuning is our
FF0 = Velocity Feed Forward Gain.
FF1 = Position Feed Forward Gain.
You have these reversed.
Jon
--
Try before you buy = See our
gene heskett wrote:
On Sunday, January 29, 2012 12:00:01 PM andy pugh did opine:
On 29 January 2012 13:23, John Thornton bjt...@gmail.com wrote:
So, looking at one of the links for servo tuning is our
FF0 = Velocity Feed Forward Gain.
FF1 = Position Feed Forward Gain.
FF2 =
On Sunday, January 29, 2012 06:37:43 PM andy pugh did opine:
On 29 January 2012 17:31, gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:
What if the spring is either too much or too little, this seems to
invite the need for a non-symmetrical FF0 function.
You could account for the constant offset
So you agree with Andys description? I have a hard time keeping them
straight...
John
On 1/29/2012 3:46 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
John Thornton wrote:
So, looking at one of the links for servo tuning is our
FF0 = Velocity Feed Forward Gain.
FF1 = Position Feed Forward Gain.
You have these
On Sun, 29 Jan 2012 19:08:23 -0600
John Thornton bjt...@gmail.com wrote:
So you agree with Andys description? I have a hard time keeping them
straight...
John
On 1/29/2012 3:46 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
John Thornton wrote:
So, looking at one of the links for servo tuning is our
FF0 =
On Sun, 29 Jan 2012 19:08:23 -0600
John Thornton bjt...@gmail.com wrote:
So you agree with Andys description? I have a hard time keeping them
straight...
John
On 1/29/2012 3:46 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
John Thornton wrote:
So, looking at one of the links for servo tuning is our
FF0 =
FF0 = Velocity Feed Forward Gain.
FF1 = Position Feed Forward Gain.
FF2 = Acceleration Feed Forward Gain or Friction Feed Forward Gain.
As Jon and others wrote, FF0,1,2 are related to consecutive time
derivatives of the controlled parameter: if the controlled parameter is the
position
Jon,
What is FF0 used for if it should be set to 0 for a motion axis?
Thanks
John
On 1/27/2012 8:16 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
Viesturs Lācis wrote:
In my previous attempts I had:
DEADBAND = 0.0005
P = 90
I = 40
D = 1,65
FF0 = 0
FF1 = 1,5
FF2 = 0
BIAS = 0,0005
FF0 should
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
Hello!
I have spent some time with the machine and have tried some of the
suggestions.
2012/1/27 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com:
At that speed with a 2-pole motor a 1ms servo period ought to be OK,
but you should try 500uS to see if that helps
)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
Hello!
I have spent some time with the machine and have tried some of the
suggestions.
2012/1/27 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com:
At that speed with a 2-pole motor a 1ms servo period ought to be OK,
but you should try 500uS to see if that helps
Kent A. Reed wrote:
I don't interpret this simple method to mean add I to increase
stability but perhaps that just shows I don't know PID theory and practice.
and I was wondering about this. I agree with you that it is D that
increases stability
(up to a point). If this is truly a
John Thornton wrote:
Jon,
What is FF0 used for if it should be set to 0 for a motion axis?
I used to think it was useless, but if you use the PID for a spindle
speed control,
for instance, then it is quite useful for a velocity servo. It serves
about the same
purpose as FF1 in a
2012/1/28 Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com:
I tried 3 times switching back and forth - with PID disconected and
BLDC value set to 0,95 motor does not move.
Thats very strange, the motor should run at full speed with a fixed bldc drive
value. Can you post your hal file somewhere (like
- Original Message -
From: noel noel.ro...@comcast.net
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Sat Jan 28 10:14:09 2012
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
All interested in Servo Tuning.
Have a look at:
http://support.motioneng.com/Downloads-Notes
2012. gada 28. janvāris 18:14 noel noel.ro...@comcast.net rakstīja:
All interested in Servo Tuning.
Have a look at:
http://support.motioneng.com/Downloads-Notes/Tuning/default.htm
In the link from Noel I find that all three (well, the last maybe not
that much) PID tuning methods:
Il giorno sab, 28/01/2012 alle 08.14 -0800, noel ha scritto:
All interested in Servo Tuning.
Have a look at:
http://support.motioneng.com/Downloads-Notes/Tuning/default.htm
Regards,
Noel.
Really much interesting!
Thanks!
Davide.
: Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
2012/1/28 Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com:
I tried 3 times switching back and forth - with PID disconected and
BLDC value set to 0,95 motor does not move.
Thats very strange, the motor should run at full speed with a fixed bldc drive
value. Can you post
2012/1/28 Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com:
Sounds like your commutation is wrong, no amount of tuning will help this
(wrong Hall order if you are using Halls wron paratmeyets if you are using q
mode etc etc)
Any tips on troubleshooting?
Viesturs
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
2012/1/28 Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com:
Sounds like your commutation is wrong, no amount of tuning will help this
(wrong Hall order if you are using Halls wron paratmeyets if you are using q
mode etc etc)
Any tips on troubleshooting?
Viesturs
2012/1/28 Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com:
If it feels coggy or snaps to other null (no force) positions, commutation is
not working (in h mode this likely means the Halls are not
connected/notconnected right or the hall mode is wrong
Is bldc.n.pattern meant with hall mode?
Viesturs
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
2012/1/28 Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com:
If it feels coggy or snaps to other null (no force) positions, commutation is
not working (in h mode this likely means the Halls are not
connected/notconnected right or the hall mode is wrong
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
2012/1/28 Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com:
If it feels coggy or snaps to other null (no force) positions, commutation is
not working (in h mode this likely means the Halls are not
connected/notconnected right or the hall mode is wrong
2012/1/28 Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com:
You could also verify that the Hall signals connected to
the BLDC component are identical for the working and non working
axis (with HALMeter) as you slowly rotate the motor shaft (with 0 P)
I will just switch off motor power, Hall and encoder
2012/1/28 Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com:
2012/1/28 Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com:
You could also verify that the Hall signals connected to
the BLDC component are identical for the working and non working
axis (with HALMeter) as you slowly rotate the motor shaft (with 0 P)
I
: Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
2012/1/28 Viesturs L??cis viesturs.la...@gmail.com:
2012/1/28 Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com:
You could also verify that the Hall signals connected to
the BLDC component are identical for the working and non working
axis (with HALMeter) as you slowly rotate
2012/1/28 Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com:
Can you verify that in addition your raw encoder count the same way?
How do You mean - count the same way?
If I understand correctly, then I tested this:
If both motors turned clockwise
Then rawcounts increase in positive direction for _both_
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
2012/1/28 Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com:
Can you verify that in addition your raw encoder count the same way?
How do You mean - count the same way?
If I understand correctly, then I tested this:
If both motors turned clockwise
Then rawcounts
2012/1/28 Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com:
OK so commutation is ok, but somthing is funny here. You said it oscillated
even with a P of 1 and all else 0. Did it not oscillate with a P of 3?
what is the difference between the setup now and when it oscillates?
I will try to explain:
I am
Viesturs Lācis wrote:
2012. gada 28. janvāris 18:14 noel noel.ro...@comcast.net rakstīja:
All interested in Servo Tuning.
Have a look at:
http://support.motioneng.com/Downloads-Notes/Tuning/default.htm
In the link from Noel I find that all three (well, the last maybe not
that
2012/1/28 Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com:
Can anyone with experience in servo tuning comment on this?
I don't actually have much experience with servos, but in my day-job
very simple controllers only have P, then we add precontrol, then I,
then transient precontrol. D is the very last
On 1/28/2012 5:05 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
Viesturs Lācis wrote:
2012. gada 28. janvāris 18:14 noelnoel.ro...@comcast.net rakstīja:
All interested in Servo Tuning.
Have a look at:
http://support.motioneng.com/Downloads-Notes/Tuning/default.htm
In the link from Noel I find that all three
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
2012/1/28 Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com:
OK so commutation is ok, but somthing is funny here. You said it oscillated
even with a P of 1 and all else 0. Did it not oscillate with a P of 3?
what is the difference between the setup now and when
Hello, folks!
I would appreciate some advice on servo tuning.
I have Keling Nema23 BLDC servo motors attached to Mesa 7i39.
And also zero experience with this :)
The way I am doing the tuning is:
1) start Emc, hit F1 and F2;
2) open Machine - Calibration;
3) change P value, for example, from 1
Subject: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
Hello, folks!
I would appreciate some advice on servo tuning.
I have Keling Nema23 BLDC servo motors attached to Mesa 7i39.
And also zero experience with this :)
The way I am doing the tuning is:
1) start Emc, hit F1 and F2;
2) open Machine - Calibration
(EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
Hello, folks!
I would appreciate some advice on servo tuning.
I have Keling Nema23 BLDC servo motors attached to Mesa 7i39.
And also zero experience with this :)
The way I am doing the tuning is:
1) start Emc
2012/1/27 Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com:
I have been playing only with P parameter so far, following this guideline:
1) increase P up to the moment, when motor becomes unstable;
2) add I to make it stable;
3) add D to make the loop stiffer;
This is wrong, you add D to make it more
Hello again!
I tried searching my mailbox with more than 2 years of this mailing
list in it for some servo tuning for noobs (actual keywords used
were servo tuning), but found only 1 viable thread, which contained
this link;
http://www.newport.com/servicesupport/Tutorials/default.aspx?id=152
My
(EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
Hello again!
I tried searching my mailbox with more than 2 years of this mailing
list in it for some servo tuning for noobs (actual keywords used
were servo tuning), but found only 1 viable thread, which
: Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
2012/1/27 Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com:
On Fri, 27 Jan 2012, Viesturs L?cis wrote:
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 21:49:18 +0200
From: [UTF-8] Viesturs L?cis viesturs.la...@gmail.com
Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
On 27 January 2012 19:54, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote:
What BLDC mode are you using?
...
If not you may somehow have lost encoder counts, this should be checked
Try mode h and comment-out the rawcounts lines, that ought to make
it stick in Hal-sensor mode, and then it can't lose
(EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
2012/1/27 Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com:
On Fri, 27 Jan 2012, Viesturs L?cis wrote:
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 21:49:18 +0200
From: [UTF-8] Viesturs L?cis viesturs.la...@gmail.com
Reply-To: Enhanced Machine
2012/1/27 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com:
On 27 January 2012 19:54, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote:
What BLDC mode are you using?
...
If not you may somehow have lost encoder counts, this should be checked
Try mode h and comment-out the rawcounts lines, that ought to make
it stick
On 27 January 2012 20:18, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, I hit F2 to stop it (sometimes it stops for itself within a
second or two) after I release jogging button and then after enabling
motion with F2 motor stands still and I can jog again
That's a good sign then.
At
On 27 January 2012 20:22, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote:
Hmm, I used h mode, when I tried to set up bldc component to move
motors properly. How is that going to help me?
Don't worry about it. If you can still jog when it settles down then
it's not losing synch.
Is FF0 set to
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
2012/1/27 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com:
On 27 January 2012 19:54, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote:
What BLDC mode are you using?
...
If not you may somehow have lost encoder counts, this should be checked
Try mode h and comment-out
2012/1/27 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com:
On 27 January 2012 20:18, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, I hit F2 to stop it (sometimes it stops for itself within a
second or two) after I release jogging button and then after enabling
motion with F2 motor stands still and I can
On 27 January 2012 20:37, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote:
What's the PID output maxing out at?
OUTPUT_SCALE = 166.667
OUTPUT_OFFSET = 0.0
MAX_OUTPUT = 166.667
I don't know what these numbers mean. But if the PWM is hitting 95%
and the motor isn't
2012/1/27 Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com:
This is not likely a tuning problem...
Sounds encouraging :)
More likely that you have either run out of headroom (what is the motor
voltage vs supply voltage?) or you have a commutation problem. Commutation
problems will happen if you have
2012/1/27 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com:
On 27 January 2012 20:37, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote:
What's the PID output maxing out at?
OUTPUT_SCALE = 166.667
OUTPUT_OFFSET = 0.0
MAX_OUTPUT = 166.667
I don't know what these numbers mean. But if
On 27 January 2012 20:45, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote:
Ok, is there a place I can read more about the max_output? I do not
fully understand, what should I do with output_ scale and max_output
parameters in INI file.
What happens if you disconnect the PID (and the motors from
2012/1/27 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com:
On 27 January 2012 20:45, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote:
Ok, is there a place I can read more about the max_output? I do not
fully understand, what should I do with output_ scale and max_output
parameters in INI file.
What happens if
: Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
2012/1/27 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com:
On 27 January 2012 20:37, Viesturs L??cis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote:
What's the PID output maxing out at?
OUTPUT_SCALE = 166.667
OUTPUT_OFFSET = 0.0
MAX_OUTPUT =166.667
So if you set
(EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
2012/1/27 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com:
On 27 January 2012 20:37, Viesturs Lяяcis viesturs.la...@gmail.com
wrote:
What's the PID output maxing out at?
OUTPUT_SCALE = 166.667
OUTPUT_OFFSET
Viesturs Lācis wrote:
In my previous attempts I had:
DEADBAND = 0.0005
P = 90
I = 40
D = 1,65
FF0 = 0
FF1 = 1,5
FF2 = 0
BIAS = 0,0005
FF0 should always be zero on a motion axis. It creates an offset that
varies with position.
FF1 should always be much less than P. FF2
Peter C. Wallace wrote:
This is wrong, you add D to make it more stable not I
This thing about add I to increase stability is in several places in the
docs and Wiki,
and I was wondering about this. I agree with you that it is D that
increases stability
(up to a point). If this is truly
On 1/27/2012 9:18 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
Peter C. Wallace wrote:
This is wrong, you add D to make it more stable not I
This thing about add I to increase stability is in several places in the
docs and Wiki,
Jon:
I don't remember reading this when I was reviewing the V2.5 docs.
As a
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