Re: What day is it?

On 15/10/2015 12:07 pm, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 1:17 AM, Bruce Kellett > wrote: On 14/10/2015 4:45 pm, Jason Resch wrote: Cochlear implants and artificial retinas give evidence toward multiple

Re: What day is it?

On 10/13/2015 7:22 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 9:04 PM, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 10/13/2015 6:36 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 6:16 PM, Brent Meeker

Re: What day is it?

On 10/13/2015 8:50 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 10:21 PM, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 10/13/2015 7:22 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 9:04 PM, Brent Meeker

Re: What day is it?

On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 10:21 PM, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 10/13/2015 7:22 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 9:04 PM, Brent Meeker > wrote: > >> >> >> On 10/13/2015 6:36 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tue, Oct 13, 2015

Re: What day is it?

On 10/13/2015 7:20 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 3:36 PM, John Clark > wrote: On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 7:14 PM, Jason Resch >wrote: ​ > ​ Well look

Re: What day is it?

On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 11:59 PM, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 10/13/2015 8:50 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 10:21 PM, Brent Meeker > wrote: > >> >> >> On 10/13/2015 7:22 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tue, Oct 13, 2015

Re: What day is it?

On 10/13/2015 6:26 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 11:34 AM, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 10/13/2015 2:40 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 13 Oct 2015, at 07:37, Bruce Kellett wrote: Has computationalism predicted

Re: What day is it?

On 10/13/2015 6:36 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 6:16 PM, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 10/13/2015 3:53 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 14 October 2015 at 09:46, Brent Meeker

Re: What day is it?

On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 3:36 PM, John Clark wrote: > On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 7:14 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > ​> ​ >> Well look into Bruno's theory if you want some possible answers. >> > > ​Answers are a dime a dozen, correct answers are not. And

Re: What day is it?

On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 9:04 PM, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 10/13/2015 6:36 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 6:16 PM, Brent Meeker > wrote: > >> >> >> On 10/13/2015 3:53 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >> >> >> >> On 14 October

Re: What day is it?

On 13 October 2015 at 11:48, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On 13/10/2015 9:46 am, Jason Resch wrote: > >> The double-slit experiment is evidence of platonic computation being >> responsible for our consciousness, along with many other properties seen in >> physics. >> > Come

Re: What day is it?

John, You are just doing propaganda for Aristotle theological primary matter assumption. There is no problem if this is your conviction. Nevertheless it is incoherent with the idea that the brain is Turing emulable. Bruno On 12 Oct 2015, at 20:37, John Clark wrote: On Sun, Oct 11,

Re: What day is it?

On 13/10/2015 7:57 pm, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 13 October 2015 at 11:48, Bruce Kellett > wrote: On 13/10/2015 9:46 am, Jason Resch wrote: The double-slit experiment is evidence of platonic computation being

Re: What day is it?

On 12 Oct 2015, at 16:45, John Clark wrote: On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 1:02 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: ​​>>​Store the entire contents of Wikipedia on the tape of your Turing machine and then retrieve that information or explain to me why you are unable to do so. ​ ​>

Re: What day is it?

2015-10-13 12:43 GMT+02:00 Bruce Kellett : > On 13/10/2015 7:57 pm, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > On 13 October 2015 at 11:48, Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On 13/10/2015 9:46 am, Jason Resch wrote: >> >>> The double-slit experiment is

Re: What day is it?

On 13/10/2015 8:40 pm, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 13 Oct 2015, at 07:37, Bruce Kellett wrote: Has computationalism predicted spin? Special relativity? Quantum field theory? General relativity? Computationalism is used implicitly in the theory of evolution, in biology, and in physics once we

Re: What day is it?

On 13 Oct 2015, at 07:37, Bruce Kellett wrote: Has computationalism predicted spin? Special relativity? Quantum field theory? General relativity? Computationalism is used implicitly in the theory of evolution, in biology, and in physics once we abandon the collapse of the wave.

Re: What day is it?

On 13/10/2015 9:54 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2015-10-13 12:43 GMT+02:00 Bruce Kellett >: On 13/10/2015 7:57 pm, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 13 October 2015 at 11:48, Bruce Kellett

Re: What day is it?

On 13/10/2015 10:14 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2015-10-13 13:08 GMT+02:00 Bruce Kellett >: On 13/10/2015 9:54 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2015-10-13 12:43 GMT+02:00 Bruce Kellett

Re: What day is it?

2015-10-13 14:26 GMT+02:00 Bruce Kellett : > On 13/10/2015 11:00 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > 2015-10-13 13:44 GMT+02:00 Bruce Kellett : > >> A computer made of silicon can emulate a Turing machine. A brain made of >> wetware can be emulated

Re: What day is it?

2015-10-13 13:08 GMT+02:00 Bruce Kellett : > On 13/10/2015 9:54 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > 2015-10-13 12:43 GMT+02:00 Bruce Kellett : > >> On 13/10/2015 7:57 pm, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >> >> On 13 October 2015 at 11:48, Bruce Kellett <

Re: What day is it?

2015-10-13 13:44 GMT+02:00 Bruce Kellett : > On 13/10/2015 10:14 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > 2015-10-13 13:08 GMT+02:00 Bruce Kellett : > >> On 13/10/2015 9:54 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >> 2015-10-13 12:43 GMT+02:00 Bruce Kellett <

Re: What day is it?

On 13/10/2015 11:00 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2015-10-13 13:44 GMT+02:00 Bruce Kellett >: A computer made of silicon can emulate a Turing machine. A brain made of wetware can be emulated by a silicon computer, or a Turing

Re: What day is it?

On 10/13/2015 3:54 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: Also I wonder how you could justify with such theory the equivalence between two computations... if not by using abstract computation theory to justify it... As you observed computation is not a material notion. If it is used to describe two

Re: What day is it?

On 13 Oct 2015, at 12:40, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 13/10/2015 8:40 pm, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 13 Oct 2015, at 07:37, Bruce Kellett wrote: Has computationalism predicted spin? Special relativity? Quantum field theory? General relativity? Computationalism is used implicitly in the theory of

Re: What day is it?

On 10/13/2015 1:57 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 13 October 2015 at 11:48, Bruce Kellett > wrote: On 13/10/2015 9:46 am, Jason Resch wrote: The double-slit experiment is evidence of platonic computation

Re: What day is it?

On 10/13/2015 2:40 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 13 Oct 2015, at 07:37, Bruce Kellett wrote: Has computationalism predicted spin? Special relativity? Quantum field theory? General relativity? Computationalism is used implicitly in the theory of evolution, in biology, and in physics once we

Re: What day is it?

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 7:14 PM, Jason Resch wrote: ​> ​ > Well look into Bruno's theory if you want some possible answers. > ​Answers are a dime a dozen, correct answers are not. And Bruno doesn't even know what questions to ask, like, "what does the pronoun "you" refer

Re: What day is it?

On 13/10/2015 11:43 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2015-10-13 14:26 GMT+02:00 Bruce Kellett >: On 13/10/2015 11:00 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2015-10-13 13:44 GMT+02:00 Bruce Kellett

Re: What day is it?

On 13 October 2015 at 21:43, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On 13/10/2015 7:57 pm, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > On 13 October 2015 at 11:48, Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On 13/10/2015 9:46 am, Jason Resch wrote: >> >>> The double-slit experiment is

Re: What day is it?

On 10/13/2015 3:04 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 13/10/2015 11:43 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2015-10-13 14:26 GMT+02:00 Bruce Kellett >: ... Who said matter was the end point? You... why do you insist on matter, if it is not

Re: What day is it?

On 10/13/2015 3:53 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 14 October 2015 at 09:46, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 10/13/2015 3:36 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: ... Standard computationalism does not say anything about whether

Re: What day is it?

On 14 October 2015 at 09:46, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 10/13/2015 3:36 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > > > On 13 October 2015 at 21:43, Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On 13/10/2015 7:57 pm, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >> >> On 13 October 2015

Re: What day is it?

On 14/10/2015 3:11 am, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 13 Oct 2015, at 12:40, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 13/10/2015 8:40 pm, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 13 Oct 2015, at 07:37, Bruce Kellett wrote: Has computationalism predicted spin? Special relativity? Quantum field theory? General relativity?

Re: What day is it?

On 10/13/2015 3:36 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 13 October 2015 at 21:43, Bruce Kellett > wrote: On 13/10/2015 7:57 pm, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 13 October 2015 at 11:48, Bruce Kellett

Re: What day is it?

On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 11:34 AM, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 10/13/2015 2:40 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 13 Oct 2015, at 07:37, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > Has computationalism predicted spin? Special relativity? Quantum field > theory? General relativity? > > >

Re: What day is it?

On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 6:16 PM, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 10/13/2015 3:53 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > > > On 14 October 2015 at 09:46, Brent Meeker wrote: > >> >> >> On 10/13/2015 3:36 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >> >> >> ... >> Standard

Re: What day is it?

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 9:45 AM, John Clark wrote: > On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 1:02 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > ​> ​ >> You just use a no standard not well defined notion of physical >> computation. When you define it, you use the mathematical notion,

Re: What day is it?

On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 1:02 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: ​ >> ​>>​ >> Store the entire contents of Wikipedia on the tape of your Turing machine >> and then retrieve that information or explain to me why you are unable to >> do so. ​ > > > ​> ​ > It is a trivial theorem of

Re: What day is it?

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 11:03 PM, Jason Resch wrote: ​> ​ > Do you have any idea why matter "obeys laws"? > ​No I do not, I have no idea. But I do know that a chain of "why" questions​ ​either comes to an end with a brute fact or it does not come to an end; and I also

Re: What day is it?

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 12:21 PM, Jason Resch wrote: ​ >> ​>> ​ >> That is because ​ >> physical computation >> ​ is the ONLY type of computation that anyone has ever observed in the >> entire history of the world. The evidence for ​Bigfoot or flying saucers or >> the Loch

Re: What day is it?

On 13/10/2015 9:46 am, Jason Resch wrote: The double-slit experiment is evidence of platonic computation being responsible for our consciousness, along with many other properties seen in physics. Come again? How on earth do you make that out? The double slit experiment is evidence for quantum

Re: What day is it?

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 1:37 PM, John Clark wrote: > On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 11:03 PM, Jason Resch > wrote: > > ​> ​ >> Do you have any idea why matter "obeys laws"? >> > > ​No I do not, I have no idea. But I do know that a chain of "why" > questions​

Re: What day is it?

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 1:44 PM, John Clark wrote: > > > On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 12:21 PM, Jason Resch > wrote: > > > ​ >>> ​>> ​ >>> That is because ​ >>> physical computation >>> ​ is the ONLY type of computation that anyone has ever observed in the

Re: What day is it?

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 7:48 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On 13/10/2015 9:46 am, Jason Resch wrote: > >> The double-slit experiment is evidence of platonic computation being >> responsible for our consciousness, along with many other properties seen in >> physics. >> >

Re: What day is it?

On 13/10/2015 2:18 pm, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 7:48 PM, Bruce Kellett > wrote: On 13/10/2015 9:46 am, Jason Resch wrote: The double-slit experiment is evidence of platonic computation being

Re: What day is it?

On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 Jason Resch wrote: ​> ​ > If you believe Pi contains wikipedia, > I have a hunch that Pi contains Wikipedia, but I know that ​ ​ Champernowne's number does, but it also has the Incorrect Wikipedia that is just as large as the regular Wikipedia but

Re: What day is it?

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 12:44 PM, John Clark wrote: > On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 Jason Resch wrote: > > ​> ​ >> If you believe Pi contains wikipedia, >> > > I have a hunch that Pi contains Wikipedia, > It almost surely

Re: What day is it?

On 09 Oct 2015, at 22:22, John Clark wrote: On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 7:12 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: ​> ​In Turing minds, the potentially infinite tape is just modeling ​Exactly, A Turing machine is just a model, a model of something real, it's a toy, a analogy, ​a

Re: What day is it?

On 09 Oct 2015, at 19:46, John Clark wrote: On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 6:58 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: ​​>> ​You pulled that microsecond figure straight out of the air. Nobody knows exactly how long it would take for quantum indeterminacy to make 2 brains diverge

Re: What day is it?

On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 3:22 PM, John Clark wrote: > On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 7:12 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > >> ​> ​ >> In Turing minds, the potentially infinite tape is just modeling >> > > ​Exactly, A Turing machine is just a model, a model of

Re: What day is it?

On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 7:12 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > ​> ​ > In Turing minds, the potentially infinite tape is just modeling > ​Exactly, A Turing machine is just a model, a model of something real, it's a toy, a analogy, ​a ​ parable ​, a tool to aid in understanding, but

Re: What day is it?

On 08 Oct 2015, at 18:31, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 2:14 PM, Brent Meeker wrote: ​> ​QM says that the brains will very quickly (microseconds) diverge. ​You pulled that microsecond figure straight out of the air. Nobody knows exactly how long it

Re: What day is it?

On 08 Oct 2015, at 19:37, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 Jason Resch wrote: ​> ​Our computers are only emulating (mimicking) mathematical objects which perform these computations. ​You've got it exactly precisely backwards. ​ ​Our ​ mathematical objects​

Re: What day is it?

On 09 Oct 2015, at 05:18, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 6:49 PM, Jason Resch wrote: ​​>> ​You've got it exactly precisely backwards. ​ ​Our ​ mathematical objects​ ​are only emulating (mimicking)​ computers which perform these computations.​ If you

Re: What day is it?

On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 6:58 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: ​ >> ​>> ​ >> You pulled that microsecond figure straight out of the air. Nobody knows >> exactly how long it would take for quantum indeterminacy to make 2 brains >> diverge significantly more than, for example, taking a

Re: What day is it?

On 8 October 2015 at 08:44, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 10/7/2015 2:30 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > > > On 8 Oct 2015, at 4:36 AM, Brent Meeker < > meeke...@verizon.net> wrote: > > > > On 10/7/2015 2:14 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > If the

Re: What day is it?

On 07 Oct 2015, at 23:44, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/7/2015 2:30 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 8 Oct 2015, at 4:36 AM, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/7/2015 2:14 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 7 October 2015 at 17:09, Brent Meeker

Re: What day is it?

On 08 Oct 2015, at 00:22, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/7/2015 3:15 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 07 Oct 2015, at 23:08, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/7/2015 11:55 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2015-10-07 20:46 GMT+02:00 Brent Meeker : On 10/7/2015 4:12 AM, Bruno Marchal

Re: What day is it?

On 08 Oct 2015, at 02:25, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/7/2015 5:14 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 4:08 PM, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/7/2015 11:55 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2015-10-07 20:46 GMT+02:00 Brent Meeker : On

Re: What day is it?

On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 Bruce Kellett wrote: ​> ​ > two brains can, by chance, > ​ ​ > be in the same physical state at one instant, ​It doesn't matter if it's because of chance or not, if the two brains are identical at that instant then they have identical memories

Re: What day is it?

On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 2:14 PM, Brent Meeker wrote: > ​> ​ > QM says that the brains will very quickly (microseconds) diverge. ​You pulled that microsecond figure straight out of the air. Nobody knows exactly how long it would take for quantum indeterminacy to make 2

Re: What day is it?

On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 Brent Meeker wrote: > ​>> ​ > Brains are not like ideal von Neumann computers or Turing machines that > have "brain states" corresponding to "mental states". If you simulated a > brain using a computer you would find that an enormous number of "brain

Re: What day is it?

On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 Jason Resch wrote: > ​> ​ > Our computers are only emulating (mimicking) mathematical objects which > perform these computations. ​You've got it exactly precisely backwards. ​ ​Our ​ mathematical objects ​ ​ are only emulating (mimicking) ​

Re: What day is it?

On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 12:37 PM, John Clark wrote: > On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 Jason Resch wrote: > > >> ​> ​ >> Our computers are only emulating (mimicking) mathematical objects which >> perform these computations. > > > ​You've got it exactly precisely

Re: What day is it?

On 9/10/2015 4:04 am, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 Bruce Kellett >wrote: ​ > ​ The consequence is that there is one person per brain -- the same person can't be spread over several brains. ​ The same person

Re: What day is it?

On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 Brent Meeker wrote: ​> ​ > Of course no one *knows* but it's not just pulled out of the air. I read > a paper several years ago that showed that what we generally regard as > "classical" randomness, e.g. coin flips, dice rolls, ... are really >

Re: What day is it?

On 9/10/2015 1:33 pm, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 Bruce Kellett >wrote: ​ ​ >> ​ The same person can have several neurons, he can have 100 billion in fact, so why can't he have more than one

Re: What day is it?

On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 Brent Meeker wrote: > Of course no one *knows* but it's not just pulled out of the air. I read > a paper several years ago > that showed that what we generally regard as "classical" randomness, e.g. > coin flips, dice rolls, ... > are really strongly

Re: What day is it?

On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 10:55 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: ​>> ​ >> If two brains ​ >> are identical they don't need to communicate directly or indirectly, ​ >> >> ​ they will keep on having the same thought regardless. If 2 phonographs >> are synchronized and playing the

Re: What day is it?

On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 Bruce Kellett wrote: ​ >> ​>> ​ >> The same person can have several neurons, he can have 100 billion in >> fact, so why can't he have more than one other biological part, why can't >> he have more than one brain? ​ >> > > ​> ​ > Neurons within the

Re: What day is it?

On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 6:49 PM, Jason Resch wrote: ​ >> ​>> ​ >> You've got it exactly precisely backwards. ​ >> >> ​Our ​ >> mathematical objects >> ​ ​ >> are only emulating (mimicking) >> ​ computers >> which perform these computations. >> ​ If you doubt this ask

Re: What day is it?

Of course no one *knows* but it's not just pulled out of the air. I read a paper several years ago that showed that what we generally regard as "classical" randomness, e.g. coin flips, dice rolls, ... are really strongly influenced by quantum randomness via the timing of nerve impluses. I

Re: What day is it?

On 10/8/2015 10:14 AM, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 Brent Meeker >wrote: ​ >> ​ Brains are not like ideal von Neumann computers or Turing machines that have "brain states" corresponding to "mental states". If you

Re: What day is it?

On 10/7/2015 9:53 AM, smitra wrote: On 07-10-2015 07:20, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/6/2015 8:11 PM, smitra wrote: On 07-10-2015 02:04, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/6/2015 4:35 PM, smitra wrote: On 07-10-2015 00:06, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 7/10/2015 7:51 am, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/6/2015

Re: What day is it?

> On 8 Oct 2015, at 4:36 AM, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > >> On 10/7/2015 2:14 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >> >> >>> On 7 October 2015 at 17:09, Brent Meeker wrote: >>> >>> On 10/6/2015 10:39 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:

Re: What day is it?

On 10/7/2015 11:55 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2015-10-07 20:46 GMT+02:00 Brent Meeker >: On 10/7/2015 4:12 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: But here Clark contradicts all the textbook on the subject. In fact all what John

Re: What day is it?

On 10/7/2015 2:30 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 8 Oct 2015, at 4:36 AM, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 10/7/2015 2:14 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 7 October 2015 at 17:09, Brent Meeker

Re: What day is it?

On 07 Oct 2015, at 18:58, smitra wrote: On 07-10-2015 12:52, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 07 Oct 2015, at 05:11, smitra wrote: On 07-10-2015 02:04, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/6/2015 4:35 PM, smitra wrote: On 07-10-2015 00:06, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 7/10/2015 7:51 am, Brent Meeker wrote: On

Re: What day is it?

On 07 Oct 2015, at 20:43, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/7/2015 3:47 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: But I think that's wrong. Brains are not like ideal von Neumann computers or Turing machines that have "brain states" corresponding to "mental states". If you simulated a brain using a computer

Re: What day is it?

On 10/7/2015 3:15 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 07 Oct 2015, at 23:08, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/7/2015 11:55 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2015-10-07 20:46 GMT+02:00 Brent Meeker >: On 10/7/2015 4:12 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

Re: What day is it?

On 07 Oct 2015, at 23:08, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/7/2015 11:55 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2015-10-07 20:46 GMT+02:00 Brent Meeker : On 10/7/2015 4:12 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: But here Clark contradicts all the textbook on the subject. In fact all what John

Re: What day is it?

2015-10-07 7:49 GMT+02:00 Bruce Kellett : > On 7/10/2015 3:58 pm, Jason Resch wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 10:37 PM, Bruce Kellett > wrote: > > They do affect you, because identical conscious states are, (by >> definition),

Re: What day is it?

On 7/10/2015 6:26 pm, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 7 October 2015 at 16:59, Bruce Kellett > wrote: On 7/10/2015 3:58 pm, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 10:37 PM, Bruce Kellett

Re: What day is it?

On 10/6/2015 10:39 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 7 October 2015 at 07:51, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 10/6/2015 1:18 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 6 Oct 2015, at 2:45 PM, Brent Meeker

Re: What day is it?

On 7 October 2015 at 19:50, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On 7/10/2015 6:26 pm, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > On 7 October 2015 at 16:59, Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On 7/10/2015 3:58 pm, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 10:37 PM,

Re: What day is it?

On 7 October 2015 at 16:59, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On 7/10/2015 3:58 pm, Jason Resch wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 10:37 PM, Bruce Kellett > wrote: > > Is a particular mind a natural type? Or is it only the generic 'mind' that > is a

Re: What day is it?

On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 4:08 PM, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 10/7/2015 11:55 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > 2015-10-07 20:46 GMT+02:00 Brent Meeker : > >> >> >> On 10/7/2015 4:12 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> But here Clark contradicts all the

Re: What day is it?

On 10/7/2015 5:14 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 4:08 PM, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 10/7/2015 11:55 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2015-10-07 20:46 GMT+02:00 Brent Meeker

Re: What day is it?

On 7 October 2015 at 20:22, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On 7/10/2015 8:01 pm, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > On 7 October 2015 at 19:50, Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On 7/10/2015 6:26 pm, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >> >> On 7 October 2015 at

Re: What day is it?

On 06 Oct 2015, at 22:51, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/6/2015 1:18 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 6 Oct 2015, at 2:45 PM, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/5/2015 6:24 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 6 Oct 2015, at 11:29 AM, Brent Meeker

Re: What day is it?

On 7 October 2015 at 17:09, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 10/6/2015 10:39 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > > > On 7 October 2015 at 07:51, Brent Meeker wrote: > >> >> >> On 10/6/2015 1:18 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >> >>> On 6 Oct 2015, at 2:45

Re: What day is it?

On 06 Oct 2015, at 20:14, Brent Meeker wrote: On 10/6/2015 10:18 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: It's not clear to me who is arguing for what. Stathis may think that consciousness is independent of it's physical substrate, but I don't see that he's arguing that here. He's arguing that there

Re: What day is it?

On 7/10/2015 8:01 pm, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 7 October 2015 at 19:50, Bruce Kellett > wrote: On 7/10/2015 6:26 pm, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 7 October 2015 at 16:59, Bruce Kellett

Re: What day is it?

On 07 Oct 2015, at 05:37, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 7/10/2015 12:38 pm, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 6:49 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 6/10/2015 9:54 am, Brent Meeker wrote: It's not clear to me who is arguing for what. Stathis may think that

Re: What day is it?

2015-10-07 11:11 GMT+02:00 Bruce Kellett : > On 7/10/2015 6:06 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > 2015-10-07 7:49 GMT+02:00 Bruce Kellett : > >> On 7/10/2015 3:58 pm, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 10:37 PM, Bruce Kellett < >>

Re: What day is it?

On 7/10/2015 6:06 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2015-10-07 7:49 GMT+02:00 Bruce Kellett >: On 7/10/2015 3:58 pm, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 10:37 PM, Bruce Kellett

Re: What day is it?

On 07 Oct 2015, at 11:11, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 7/10/2015 6:06 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2015-10-07 7:49 GMT+02:00 Bruce Kellett : On 7/10/2015 3:58 pm, Jason Resch wrote: snipe As a philosopher friend was prone to say, epistemology precedes ontology. From

Re: What day is it?

On 10/7/2015 2:14 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 7 October 2015 at 17:09, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 10/6/2015 10:39 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On 7 October 2015 at 07:51, Brent Meeker

Re: What day is it?

On 10/7/2015 4:12 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: But here Clark contradicts all the textbook on the subject. In fact all what John Clarks says here is that you cannot get a physical object from an arithmetical computations, which is trivial, but does not prove the existence of the physical object,

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