Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-08-05 Thread Roland Mainz
Dennis Clarke wrote: From: Dennis Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC Date: Wed, July 26, 2006 14:01 To: opensolaris-discuss@OpenSolaris.org --

Frustration... / was: Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal :Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-08-05 Thread Roland Mainz
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] Yeah. But I am NOT alone with the feeling that something is going wrong. Why does this project need more than half a year to get some sources moved into the Solaris tree? This is a task which should be finished within weeks and NOT years. It's much more

Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-08-05 Thread Cyril Plisko
On 8/6/06, Roland Mainz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dennis Clarke wrote: From: Dennis Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC Date: Wed, July 26, 2006 14:01 To: opensolaris-discuss@OpenSolaris.org

Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-08-02 Thread Joerg Schilling
Josh Hurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My answer is: It depends on the requirements on the user side. Both sides of the spectrum have valid arguments. However the backwards compatibility of ksh93 is very good as outlined by Roland Mainz. I think we should switch NOW or allow the users to switch

Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-31 Thread Joerg Schilling
Martin Schaffstall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC +1 I suggest to make /bin/ksh ksh93 from the beginning that you don't have to deal with any backwards compatibility fuzz later Do you like to make Solaris PPC incompatible to Solaris

Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-31 Thread Josh Hurst
On 7/31/06, Joerg Schilling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Martin Schaffstall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC +1 I suggest to make /bin/ksh ksh93 from the beginning that you don't have to deal with any backwards compatibility fuzz later Do

Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-31 Thread Josh Hurst
On 7/31/06, Joerg Schilling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Martin Schaffstall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC +1 I suggest to make /bin/ksh ksh93 from the beginning that you don't have to deal with any backwards compatibility fuzz later Do

Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-28 Thread Casper . Dik
But why is SUNW so uninterested??? Where is your vision of ^^We strongly believe in One Solaris^^ now? There is a lot of history there and it is hard to change. I'm sure they don't want to ship on Xorg on SPARC which only supports older framebuffers poorly so a lot more work is involved. Are

Re: Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-28 Thread Martin Bochnig
Original-Message Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:45:31 +0200 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Martin Bochnig [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC But why is SUNW so uninterested??? Where is your

Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-28 Thread Casper . Dik
(ks93 discuss removed) But why is SUNW so uninterested??? Where is your vision of ^^We strongly believe in One Solaris^^ now? There is a lot of history there and it is hard to change. Migrating from Xsun to Xorg did work on x86. What lot of history do you mean exactly? (okay, /dev/fb is

Re: Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-28 Thread James Carlson
Martin Bochnig writes: Are you afraid of publically being expected to opensource all your (mostly eol'ed) gfx drivers? If by afraid you mean know that we'll be doing something illegal, then perhaps that's a partly reasonable interpretation. I think you're at least underestimating the amount

Re: Re: Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-28 Thread Martin Bochnig
It's not just blind fear, though, nor is it malice. Looking at the staggering amount of code we've been able to release so far, I'm a bit baffled how anyone could even begin to think that we're holding back out of spite. -- James Carlson, KISS Network[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Re: Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-28 Thread James Carlson
Martin Bochnig writes: I would just love being explicitly allowed to integrate and redistribute a few closed things Since you have a fairly specific hit-list of items you need, how about filing bugs against each requesting an open version? That might be a more productive approach than

Re: Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-28 Thread Martin Bochnig
Original-Message Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 16:54:17 -0700 From: Jan Setje-Eilers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Martin Bochnig [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC p.s.: Is SUNW interested in GRUB2

Re: Re: Re: Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-28 Thread Martin Bochnig
Since you have a fairly specific hit-list of items you need, how about filing bugs against each requesting an open version? That might be a more productive approach than complaining here. -- James Carlson Strange, but okay. Be sure that I will do that asap (not now). -- Martin

Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-28 Thread Casper . Dik
Except NICs you mean? Including NICs. Doesn't Grub (at least Grub1) use the etherboot/rom-o-matic NIC drivers? Not for Solaris as Sun ships it. The grub that comes with Solaris is loaded in memory using PXE (over the wire) and then the Grub PXE driver continues to use PXE to bootstrap the

Grub on sparc _/_ Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-28 Thread Martin Bochnig
Ah, that is what I asked you a few lines above. Yeah. Or loaded via Grub1 floppy, where no PXE is present. And then interfacing with the NIC directly. Damn, I had been hoping from outside (never worked through the grub sources) this would be handled similarily with a certain set of USB

Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-28 Thread Stephen Lau
Martin Bochnig wrote: Having a redistributable DLJ-distros-jdk available, which necessarily depends on (apparently) non-redistributable SUNWspro-shared C++ libs, is another such problem. It's really annoying that I have to force LiveDVD-users to download them on the fly first

Re: Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-28 Thread Rich Teer
On Fri, 28 Jul 2006, Martin Bochnig wrote: Is it also a matter of resources that you don't allow (even non-commercial) distributors to redistribute a closed binary for /dev/fb for the older framebuffers developed by SUNW themselves (probably no 3rd party NDA's affected)? And what is with the

Re: Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-28 Thread Martin Bochnig
Martin Bochnig wrote: Having a redistributable DLJ-distros-jdk available, which necessarily depends on (apparently) non-redistributable SUNWspro-shared C++ libs, is another such problem. It's really annoying that I have to force LiveDVD-users to download them on the fly first

Re: Re: Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-28 Thread Martin Bochnig
Dunno about the frame buffers, but perhaps libC contains 3rd party IP, and Sun's license to use it prohibits redistribution by other parties? I believe that's one of the reasons why you and I are not allowed to redistribute the Solaris ISOs we can download for free from Sun's web site: Sun

Re: Re: Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-28 Thread Rich Teer
On Fri, 28 Jul 2006, Martin Bochnig wrote: okay. If (and only if) 3rd parties are involved into the libC* thing, I _would_ understand it. Would a statement by a Sun employee (provided, of course, thet such a license doesn't prohibit Sun from doing so) clarifying the situation help? What I

Re: Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-28 Thread David Korn
cc: opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org Subject: Re: Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC I don't want to get involved in political arguments so I will state my view one once. It looks as if Casper Dik and Martin Schaffstall

Re: Re: Re: Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-28 Thread Martin Bochnig
Would a statement by a Sun employee (provided, of course, thet such a license doesn't prohibit Sun from doing so) clarifying the situation help? Yes. What I still would not understand - however - is, why the Distros-JDK (on which SUNW has made so much noise about, back in May'06) has

Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-28 Thread Casper . Dik
okay. If (and only if) 3rd parties are involved into the libC* thing, I _would_ understand it. What I still would not understand - however - is, why the Distros-JDK (on which SUNW has made so m uch noise about, back in May'06) has not been built with the open gcc. A gcc-built JDK would not

Really ksh88 vs. ksh93 _/_ Re: Re: Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-28 Thread Martin Bochnig
@opensolaris.org Subject: Re: Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC cc: opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org Subject: Re: Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC I

Re[2]: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-28 Thread Robert Milkowski
Hello Stefan, Thursday, July 27, 2006, 9:42:45 PM, you wrote: ST [ offlist ] ST On 7/27/06, Rich Teer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mmmm. Perhaps I was overly assertive, although I stick to the principle. 'Course, the ensuing discussion about ksh88 not being able to be open sourced doesn't help

Re[2]: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-28 Thread Rich Teer
On Sat, 29 Jul 2006, Robert Milkowski wrote: In that area Solaris saves a lot of time comparing to Linux. And therefore, presumably, saves money too. -- Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA, OpenSolaris CAB member President, Rite Online Inc. Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638 URL: http://www.rite-group.com/rich

Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Martin Schaffstall
On 7/26/06, Dennis Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Dennis Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC Date: Wed, July 26, 2006 14:01 To: opensolaris-discuss@OpenSolaris.org

Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Casper . Dik
I suggest to make /bin/ksh ksh93 from the beginning that you don't have to deal with any backwards compatibility fuzz later If you want PowerPC Solaris and SPARC/x86 Solaris be that different, then yes; if you want scripts to be compatible I suggest not. (+1 for PowerPC) Casper

Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Dennis Clarke
On 7/26/06, Dennis Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Dennis Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC Date: Wed, July 26, 2006 14:01 To: opensolaris-discuss@OpenSolaris.org

Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Dennis Clarke
I suggest to make /bin/ksh ksh93 from the beginning that you don't have to deal with any backwards compatibility fuzz later If you want PowerPC Solaris and SPARC/x86 Solaris be that different, then yes; if you want scripts to be compatible I suggest not. I think there is a PowerPC discuss

Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Martin Schaffstall
On 7/27/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I suggest to make /bin/ksh ksh93 from the beginning that you don't have to deal with any backwards compatibility fuzz later If you want PowerPC Solaris and SPARC/x86 Solaris be that different, then yes; if you want scripts to be compatible

Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Dennis Clarke
On 7/27/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I suggest to make /bin/ksh ksh93 from the beginning that you don't have to deal with any backwards compatibility fuzz later If you want PowerPC Solaris and SPARC/x86 Solaris be that different, then yes; if you want scripts to be

Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Casper . Dik
On 7/27/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I suggest to make /bin/ksh ksh93 from the beginning that you don't have to deal with any backwards compatibility fuzz later If you want PowerPC Solaris and SPARC/x86 Solaris be that different, then yes; if you want scripts to be

Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Raquel Velasco and Bill Buck
great! On Jul 27, 2006, at 7:16 AM, Dennis Clarke wrote: [1] Well, considering that /bin/ksh is for some reason not part of the Unix license we once bought and therefor in usr/closed, the PowerPC team may not have a choice but to install ksh93 as /bin/ksh bingo [1] -- Dennis Clarke

Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Martin Schaffstall
On 7/27/06, Dennis Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/27/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I suggest to make /bin/ksh ksh93 from the beginning that you don't have to deal with any backwards compatibility fuzz later If you want PowerPC Solaris and SPARC/x86 Solaris be that

Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Casper . Dik
The issue of backwards compatibility is already addressed very well in ksh93 itself. Most of the opensolaris distributions - excluding Solaris itself - are shipping ksh93 as /bin/ksh or are going to ship it. The ksh integration tree contains a master built switch specifically for that purpose:

Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Martin Schaffstall
On 7/27/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [1] Well, considering that /bin/ksh is for some reason not part of the Unix license we once bought and therefor in usr/closed You're not going to file a bug to get the old /bin/ksh open sourced, do you? -- // Martin Schaffstall //

Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Martin Schaffstall
On 7/27/06, Raquel Velasco and Bill Buck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: great! Lets hope we won't see an open sourced version of the old /bin/ksh -- // Martin Schaffstall //EMail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] \\ // \X/ ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing

Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Martin Schaffstall
On 7/27/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: PS: Somehow I have the feeling that Sun doesn't want to see the project succeed in replacing ksh88 with ksh93, a feeling which is based on the open hostilities from Sun personnel and the permanent delays :( No, that's not true at all. I

Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Casper . Dik
On 7/27/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: PS: Somehow I have the feeling that Sun doesn't want to see the project succeed in replacing ksh88 with ksh93, a feeling which is based on the open hostilities from Sun personnel and the permanent delays :( No, that's not true at all.

Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread James Carlson
Martin Schaffstall writes: On 7/27/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: PS: Somehow I have the feeling that Sun doesn't want to see the project succeed in replacing ksh88 with ksh93, a feeling which is based on the open hostilities from Sun personnel and the permanent delays :(

Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Martin Schaffstall
On 7/27/06, James Carlson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Martin Schaffstall writes: On 7/27/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: PS: Somehow I have the feeling that Sun doesn't want to see the project succeed in replacing ksh88 with ksh93, a feeling which is based on the open

Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Bonnie Corwin
Martin Schaffstall wrote On 07/27/06 06:48,: On 7/27/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [1] Well, considering that /bin/ksh is for some reason not part of the Unix license we once bought and therefor in usr/closed You're not going to file a bug to get the old /bin/ksh open

Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Stephen Lau
Martin Schaffstall wrote: On 7/27/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [1] Well, considering that /bin/ksh is for some reason not part of the Unix license we once bought and therefor in usr/closed You're not going to file a bug to get the old /bin/ksh open sourced, do you? It's

Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Alan Coopersmith
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I suggest to make /bin/ksh ksh93 from the beginning that you don't have to deal with any backwards compatibility fuzz later If you want PowerPC Solaris and SPARC/x86 Solaris be that different, then yes; if you want scripts to be compatible I suggest not. What other

Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Stephen Lau
Alan Coopersmith wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I suggest to make /bin/ksh ksh93 from the beginning that you don't have to deal with any backwards compatibility fuzz later If you want PowerPC Solaris and SPARC/x86 Solaris be that different, then yes; if you want scripts to be compatible I

Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Calum Benson
On Thu, 2006-07-27 at 15:55 +0200, Martin Schaffstall wrote: On 7/27/06, James Carlson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Martin Schaffstall writes: On 7/27/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: PS: Somehow I have the feeling that Sun doesn't want to see the project succeed in

Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Calum Benson
(Apologies, please ignore disregard the blank email I just sent Evolution threw a bit of a wobbler!) -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Java Desktop System Group http://ie.sun.com +353 1 819 9771 Any

Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Rich Teer
On Thu, 27 Jul 2006, Martin Schaffstall wrote: I suggest to make /bin/ksh ksh93 from the beginning that you don't have to deal with any backwards compatibility fuzz later I advocate against that; individual distros are free to do what want, of course, but making gratuitous incompatible changes

Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Rich Teer
On Thu, 27 Jul 2006, Dennis Clarke wrote: I am certain that the ksh93 implementation is being addressed in a manner consistent with solid engineering principles. The issue of backwards compatibility is critical to the success of Solaris and, in my less than humble opinion, critical to the

Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Rich Teer
On Thu, 27 Jul 2006, Dennis Clarke wrote: [1] I'm working on my verbosity. How am I doing? :-) Great--until you blew it with an overly verbose footnote! :-) -- Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA, OpenSolaris CAB member President, Rite Online Inc. Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638 URL:

Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Stefan Teleman
On 7/27/06, Rich Teer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 27 Jul 2006, Martin Schaffstall wrote: I suggest to make /bin/ksh ksh93 from the beginning that you don't have to deal with any backwards compatibility fuzz later I advocate against that; individual distros are free to do what want, of

Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Dennis Clarke
On Thu, 27 Jul 2006, Dennis Clarke wrote: [1] I'm working on my verbosity. How am I doing? :-) Great--until you blew it with an overly verbose footnote! :-) :-P ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list

Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Rich Teer
On Thu, 27 Jul 2006, Stefan Teleman wrote: How is gratuitous incompatibility defined in this particular case ? The possibility that someone who will try the PowerPC Solaris port in the future might be unhappy because this future port will default to ksh93 instead of /bin/ksh, creating the

Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Casper . Dik
Solaris 10 SPARC is currently incompatible with Solaris x86/x64: Xsun on SPARC vs. Xorg on x86/x64. I haven't heard of too many complaints because of this compatibility breakage (source code written, compiled and linked on Solaris 10 Xorg x86/x64 will not compile and link on Solaris 10 Xsun SPARC

Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Stefan Teleman
On 7/27/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not sure what you mean with source code written, compiled and linked ... Xorg). The X client runtime is exactly the same on both; the server is different but by and large implements the same feature set (with the exception of DPS on

Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread James Carlson
Stefan Teleman writes: i am specifically referring to: Xrender XVideo XvMC XRandR Xcomposite none of these extensions are available on Xsun SPARC. source code which makes use of any of these extensions, which compiles, links and runs on Xorg x86/x64 does not compile or link (never

Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread ken mays
On Thu, 27 Jul 2006, Martin Schaffstall wrote: I suggest to make /bin/ksh ksh93 from the beginning that you don't have to deal with any backwards compatibility fuzz later I advocate against that; individual distros are free to do what want, of course, but making gratuitous incompatible changes

Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Alan Coopersmith
Stefan Teleman wrote: i am specifically referring to: Xrender XVideo XvMC XRandR Xcomposite none of these extensions are available on Xsun SPARC. source code which makes use of any of these extensions, which compiles, links and runs on Xorg x86/x64 does not compile or link (never mind run) on

Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Casper . Dik
i am specifically referring to: Xrender XVideo XvMC XRandR Xcomposite Certainly the compilation environment should support all; Xrandr seems to be present on SPARC (certainly the library and client are). All of them should compile and run (against Xorg servers) on SPARC. none of these

Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Stefan Teleman
On 7/27/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All of them should compile and run (against Xorg servers) on SPARC. There is nothing i would love more than to be able to run Xorg with all these extensions working on SPARC and my XVR-1000 card, so i can watch DVD's at more than

Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Stefan Teleman
[ offlist ] On 7/27/06, Rich Teer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mmmm. Perhaps I was overly assertive, although I stick to the principle. 'Course, the ensuing discussion about ksh88 not being able to be open sourced doesn't help the debate. you weren't being overly assertive. this backwards

Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Casper . Dik
this backwards compatibility for backwards compatibility's sake is no longer a selling point. Linux has proven that backwards compatibility for its own sake is largely irrelevant (my personal unhappiness about this incompatibility, grounded in purely philosophical rather than practical

Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread James Carlson
Stefan Teleman writes: this backwards compatibility for backwards compatibility's sake is no longer a selling point. Linux has proven that backwards compatibility for its own sake is largely irrelevant (my personal unhappiness about this incompatibility, grounded in purely philosophical rather

Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Stefan Teleman
On 7/27/06, James Carlson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The good news, I think, is that Linux is still readily available for those who aren't so interested in compatibility. Nobody else really needs to ape that model. and Linux is also being readily deployed. 12,000+ workstations at ODF

Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Stephen Hahn
* Dennis Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006-07-26 21:16]: * Dennis Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006-07-26 11:19]: The community has accepted the name Polaris as the distro name. Cool. But I need to ask a question: is someone likely to need or want to trademark this use of Polaris?

Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread John Plocher
+-- Stefan Teleman wrote: this backwards compatibility for backwards compatibility's sake is no longer a selling point. Agreed, but I don't think that this case is really that simplistic. One currently expects that the scripts one writes today will run unchanged between OpenSolaris/SPARC and

Re: Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Martin Bochnig
Original-Message Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 14:13:15 +0200 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Korn Shell 93 integration/migration project discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC On 7/27

Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Alan Coopersmith
Martin Bochnig wrote: Are you afraid of publically being expected to opensource all your (mostly eol'ed) gfx drivers? Or is it that you yourself don't believe in sparc anymore. Sun believes in SPARC servers such as the Sun Fire T1000/T2000, but there isn't as much work going on in SPARC

Re: Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Martin Bochnig
Martin Bochnig wrote: Are you afraid of publically being expected to opensource all your (mostly eol'ed) gfx drivers? Or is it that you yourself don't believe in sparc anymore. Sun believes in SPARC servers such as the Sun Fire T1000/T2000, but there isn't as much work going on in SPARC

Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Alan Coopersmith
Martin Bochnig wrote: It would be really nice if I could redistribute the closed /dev/fb driver for those older chipsets. Even just in binary form would absolutely be enough. I asked the SPARC team to allow binary redistribution of their drivers a year ago, and last I heard they still hadn't

Re: Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Martin Bochnig
Martin Bochnig wrote: It would be really nice if I could redistribute the closed /dev/fb driver for those older chipsets. Even just in binary form would absolutely be enough. I asked the SPARC team to allow binary redistribution of their drivers a year ago, and last I heard they still

Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Jan Setje-Eilers
p.s.: Is SUNW interested in GRUB2 on sparc? We finally could boot from USB mass storage then. The idea that GRUB or GRUB2 has anything to do with what devices a system can or can not boot from is mostly a miss-conception. A number of amd64/legacy-x86 systems have BIOSs that can talk to and

Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread Martin Bochnig
Jan, thanks for your detailed answer! I should have (finally) read all the ieee1275 datasheets before starting to publically talk about that, and unintentionally spreading untruths. Thanks for the correction, overview and outlook. I should have known it better a bit: I once experimented with

Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-27 Thread John Weekley
On Thu, 2006-07-27 at 22:11 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: this backwards compatibility for backwards compatibility's sake is no longer a selling point. Linux has proven that backwards compatibility for its own sake is largely irrelevant (my personal unhappiness about this incompatibility,

[osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-26 Thread Dennis Clarke
From: Dennis Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC Date: Wed, July 26, 2006 14:01 To: opensolaris-discuss@OpenSolaris.org -- Formal Proposal : Port

Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-26 Thread Rich Teer
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006, Dennis Clarke wrote: I propose that a project be formed to port OpenSolaris to the PowerPC and POWER Architecture. The initial port should be tightly constrained to a specific hardware reference platform and based on a 32-bit single CPU implementation. Members

Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-26 Thread Cyril Plisko
On 7/26/06, Dennis Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Dennis Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC Date: Wed, July 26, 2006 14:01 To: opensolaris-discuss@OpenSolaris.org

Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-26 Thread Noah yan
+1 On 7/26/06, Dennis Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Dennis Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC Date: Wed, July 26, 2006 14:01 To: opensolaris-discuss@OpenSolaris.org

Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-26 Thread Martin Bochnig
+1.0 Original-Message Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 14:19:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Dennis Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: opensolaris-discuss@OpenSolaris.org Subject: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC From: Dennis Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Formal

Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-26 Thread Karyn Ritter
So, I assume that the code and discussions would be moved to opensolaris.org once the project is approved and open on the site? Thanks, Karyn Dennis Clarke wrote: From: Dennis Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC Date: Wed, July 26, 2006 14:01

Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-26 Thread Dennis Clarke
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006, Dennis Clarke wrote: I propose that a project be formed to port OpenSolaris to the PowerPC and POWER Architecture. The initial port should be tightly constrained to a specific hardware reference platform and based on a 32-bit single CPU implementation.

Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-26 Thread Dennis Clarke
So, I assume that the code and discussions would be moved to opensolaris.org once the project is approved and open on the site? The discussion list already exists at the opensolaris.org site. It was moved from the blastwave list server quite some time ago. I can't recall why. The subversion

Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-26 Thread Dennis Clarke
So, I assume that the code and discussions would be moved to opensolaris.org once the project is approved and open on the site? Here is the task map : http://polaris.blastwave.org/wiki/PolarisTaskMap Dennis ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list

Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-26 Thread Al Hopper
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006, Dennis Clarke wrote: From: Dennis Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC Date: Wed, July 26, 2006 14:01 To: opensolaris-discuss@OpenSolaris.org

Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-26 Thread Karyn Ritter
So development would continue to happen on Blastwave? If so, what (if anything) will be in the project on opensolaris.org? Thanks, Karyn Dennis Clarke wrote: So, I assume that the code and discussions would be moved to opensolaris.org once the project is approved and open on the site?

Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-26 Thread Al Hopper
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006, Karyn Ritter wrote: So development would continue to happen on Blastwave? Sure. Why not? If so, what (if anything) will be in the project on opensolaris.org? Primarily a pointer to where the work is being done. And a single focal point for anyone to go to who is

Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-26 Thread Dennis Clarke
So development would continue to happen on Blastwave? Yes. There is a project well in place and already happening. Also, Genesi has stepped up to the plate and provided _everything_ that the community would ever need to ensure that we have good success. In that regard it makes total

Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-26 Thread Stephen Hahn
* Dennis Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006-07-26 11:19]: The community has accepted the name Polaris as the distro name. Cool. But I need to ask a question: is someone likely to need or want to trademark this use of Polaris? (If so, it's not useful as a project name for

Re: [osol-discuss] Formal Proposal : Port OpenSolaris to PowerPC

2006-07-26 Thread Dennis Clarke
* Dennis Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006-07-26 11:19]: The community has accepted the name Polaris as the distro name. Cool. But I need to ask a question: is someone likely to need or want to trademark this use of Polaris? (If so, it's not useful as a project name for