th [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 1999 5:31 PM
To: passenger side
Subject: Re: Updates
Richard Haslop wrote:
The World
Is A Wonderful Place (is that what the English Richard Thompson
tribute
was called?
I haven't heard of this. Who's on it?
Tom Smith
-Original Message-
From: Jamie Swedberg [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Damn, you find the Blacks more painful than a faux-gospel group? Those
must
not be the Blacks I saw twice at SxSW. The ones I saw totally
fascinated
me--they really knew how to work a crowd, and made quite
Anyways, I'm off to see the local excuse for a Western Swing band, and
actually they don't suck too bad at all.
See you all later.
Tom Ekeberg
Oslo, Norway
I have to inform you that the "excuse" Tom is talking about is named 5:56
and just recently recorded an album of (non alternative)
Todd Larson wrote:
I'll keep that in mind, Bill, and stick with pizza. Have a great weekend
everybody...and Jon, make sure to crack the whip tonight on that slacker
Purcell. If you don't keep an eye on him he'll be pulling a Warner Hodges
and playing the guitar behind his back or with his
Dave Purcell wrote:
Mark Rubin spit:
These "alt-country" showcases were packed with scenesters dressed
up like they were going to a Hee-Haw theme party. Women in
pig-tails and guys in spray painted straw hats that would surely
get their asses kicked in an actual honky-tonk.
In a message dated 99-04-23 17:38:03 EDT, bob writes:
Ummm, who are these bands that are getting on the radio and
turning newbies off of "altcountry"?
I could name some pretty rotten Southern Ohio bluegrass bands
That doesn't answer the question, which was about alt country... g
Which pretty much echoes something that Bill Emerson, banjoist
extraordinaire, told Bluegrass Unlimited a few years ago (I'm hunting for
that Crowe rant):
"The problem with bluegrass is that there's too much unprofessional
bluegrass. It's a type of music that anybody can play anywhere. You
Yeah, damn shame how advances in recording technology have made
it possible
for people to make records without the financing -- or blessing -- of some
media conglomerate more concerned with cash than quality or a group of
gatekeepers who get to decide what's "professional" or not. This
"The problem with bluegrass is that there's too much unprofessional
bluegrass.
No, no. That would be old-time music.
snort
Erin
Richard Haslop wrote:
The World
Is A Wonderful Place (is that what the English Richard Thompson tribute
was called?
I haven't heard of this. Who's on it?
Tom Smith
At 11:19 AM -0400 on 4/24/99, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Actually, I consider bluegrass alt-country.
This isn't my objection to calling bluegrass alt-country, but I dunno
how a staid, conservative genre like bluegrass becomes an alternative
to a staid, conservative genre like country. It's just
At 6:33 PM +0200 on 4/23/99, Marie wrote:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the world does not need
anymore
tribute albums. g It's one of those ideas that are better in theory.
The only really good one
is *Tulare Dust*, imo. And the Tom T. Hall tribute is pretty good.
The Jo
l Message-
From: Don Yates [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 8:14 PM
To: passenger side
Subject: Re: Updates
I think we know who gets this year's Fowler Award at Twangfest for
Most
Embarrassing Private Post Sent To The List this year. Good one,
Junior!g--don
On Thu, 22 Apr 1999 20:00:01 -0500 Christopher M Knaus
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What's on the list of "Cities with good
alt.country music scene's that get a large amount of press." Um, Austin,
erm, Chicago, maybe Nashville, maybe St. Louis - that's about it isnt it?
Chapel Hill usedta be
MATT!:Well, I'll stand in front of Rob Miller's fantastic jukebox
there in his living room, in my best pair of overalls, with a haybale,
and a featherboa drinking RC Cola, munching on a moon pie, and
tell him Jr's right,
Matt wins Friday's The Dave Purcell Rant of the Day Award.
and
-Original Message-
From: Marie Arsenault [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, April 23, 1999 9:42 AM
To: passenger side
Subject: RE: Updates
Matt wins Friday's "The Dave Purcell Rant of the Day" Award.
[Matt Benz] Well, it's early, I'm tir
In a message dated 99-04-22 17:35:44 EDT, you write:
Yates opines:
Anyway, it's too bad the person who wrote
that essay spent so much time with the cartoon crowd down there -- he/she
must've missed James Hand, Justin Trevino, Don Walser, Paul Burch, Dale
Watson and all the other hardcore
In a message dated 99-04-22 17:47:51 EDT, Jon writes:
Well, it was part of the premise - that lousy performances/performers are
especially destructive to the "roots music movement."
Lousy music is a drag, but since when has sucky music stopped talented
musicians from making great music?
well, what the hell is alt country then? The most reasonable
definition I've
been able to come up with is anything with country roots that Hot
New Country
stations won't get near, touch, play, mention, support, blah, blah, blah,
which would include Walsner, Paul Burch, Dale Wartson, etc.
M Rubin wrote:
Yates opines:
Anyway, it's too bad the person who wrote
that essay spent so much time with the cartoon crowd down there -- he/she
must've missed James Hand, Justin Trevino, Don Walser, Paul Burch, Dale
Watson and all the other hardcore traditionalists types that played this
Elena (?) wrote:
Lousy music is a drag, but since when has sucky music stopped talented
musicians from making great music?
And Jon W replied:
It hasn't, but it can make it harder for them to get heard, both because
of
the turn-off factor already mentioned - "Yeesh, those guys couldn't
CK sez:
Dave, who hates all things Chicago...
Not true. Just very glad to be back home, that's all.
And as far as your specific examples go, you eliminated one from
the genre - even tho they are the 'corner stone band' on an
insurgent country label, and you dismiss another band (who loads
Lousy music is a drag, but since when has sucky music stopped talented
musicians from making great music?
It hasn't, but it can make it harder for them to get heard, both because of
the turn-off factor already mentioned - "Yeesh, those guys couldn't carry a
tune in a paper bag. If that's
#1 Allen Iverson fan Todd Larson wrote:
You know, this sort of musical Gresham's Law -- that bad music
represents a threat to the good -- has been discussed here
before...snipThis kind of thinking smacks of an elitism that
I can't tolerate -- as if the "sucky" bands are doing something
Greg says:
Elena (?) wrote:
Lousy music is a drag, but since when has sucky music stopped talented
musicians from making great music?
And Jon W replied:
It hasn't, but it can make it harder for them to get heard, both because
of
the turn-off factor already mentioned - "Yeesh, those
on is moot.
--
From: "Dave Purcell" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "passenger side" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Updates
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999, 1:14 PM
But given most people's busy schedules and abundant entertainment
choices, there's a good chance a lousy band (and it's not solel
You know, this sort of musical Gresham's Law -- that bad music represents a
threat to the good -- has been discussed here before (we talked about it in
relationship to Split Lip Rayfield, if I recall), and I still just don't
buy it. "Boy if weren't for those damn Moonshine Cousinfuckers
Wildcat apologist Dave wrote:
But
given most people's busy schedules and abundant entertainment
choices, there's a good chance a lousy band (and it's not solely a
matter of chops or a lack thereof) *would* turn them off to roots
music for good. How many of us have gone back to a restaurant we
Geez, why is this so difficult to get across?
As Dave wrote:
But given most people's busy schedules and abundant entertainment
choices, there's a good chance a lousy band (and it's not solely a
matter of chops or a lack thereof) *would* turn them off to roots
music for good. How many
In a message dated 99-04-23 14:16:15 EDT, you write:
The thread started out from Mr. Anonymous's point that sucky music is
hurting "the roots music movement," which would probably g include some of
the stuff Greg's listed. Think for a minute about how different kinds of
music get exposure.
The thread started out from Mr. Anonymous's point that sucky music is
hurting "the roots music movement," which would probably g include some of
the stuff Greg's listed. Think for a minute about how different kinds of
music get exposure. Rock, pop, country - these are mass genres, and anyone
Todd says:
But
given most people's busy schedules and abundant entertainment
choices, there's a good chance a lousy band (and it's not solely a
matter of chops or a lack thereof) *would* turn them off to roots
music for good. How many of us have gone back to a restaurant we
hated the
Of course not. Nobody's saying a lousy band will make people abandon
*music*. But if someone goes to, say, their first Malaysian restaurant
(to choose something fringey), and the food is overcooked and greasy
and makes them practically retch, the next time someone suggests a
Jenni wrote:
Um...no it wouldn't. It would turn them off to that band, and
possibly hanging out with you. Its a matter of "My Mix
Tape/Top-Ten-List/Music Recomendations Define Me". They're your
friends, and chances are you're not gonna drag them out to see
Moonshine Willy so the question
Todd says:
I guess what it comes down to is the degree to which a given band is known
and marketed as representative of a certain genre, and the degree to which
people associate their particular experience of the band with the entire
genre.
Well, I'd say that a show billed as an alt.country
Todd Larson wrote:
But the larger point for me, to say it one more time, is the notion
of blame. The conversations here (and Mr. Anonymous' assertion that sucky
bands are a threat to the roots music movement) is like a bunch of
restaurant critics suggesting that the sucky Malaysian
But the larger point for me, to say it one more time, is the notion
of blame. The conversations here (and Mr. Anonymous' assertion that sucky
bands are a threat to the roots music movement) is like a bunch of
restaurant critics suggesting that the sucky Malaysian restaurant should
shut down
Ummm, who are these bands that are getting on the radio and
turning newbies off of "altcountry"?
I could name some pretty rotten Southern Ohio bluegrass bands who get
airplay on Southern Ohio bluegrass radio and get festival bookings, but I
doubt the names would mean much to anyone not from
Well, I have to come out of the woodwork to side firmly with Todd on this
one. While I don't want to beat this food analogy to death, I think it's a
good 'un, I just disagree with most of the predictions. I really think
that most people are smart enough to recognize poor quality without
Jon Weisberger wrote:
Well, I'd say that a show billed as an alt.country showcase is one that's
at
least to some degree marketing the acts who appear on it as
representative
of the genre, and I'd say it's reasonable for people, especially those
unfamiliar to the genre, to think that a show
On Fri, 23 Apr 1999, William F. Silvers wrote:
Todd Larson wrote:
TW -- have any of you popsters out there seen Jason Faulkner? Thinking
about checking it out tonight, and hoping it won't turn me off from pop
altogether
Well, I've read very good things about his new record, but I
Erin Snyder wrote:
I really think that most people are smart enough to recognize poor
quality without assuming it's a characteristic of the genre (punk
notwithstanding -heh).
Well, I hope you're right. With true music fans, maybe, but I don't
think the general populace is so forgiving (or
And while I'm at it, I hate that hippie psuedo-bluegrass pap that Jerry
Garcia inadvertently spawned. However, when my staight-up bluegrass band
opened for the god-awful Gordon Stone ("banjo" player famed for
collaborating with Ph*sh), I felt no moral qualms whatsoever about taking
hundreds of
Another angle on this deal -- and I'll be short because all this talk
about Malaysian food is making me hungry -- is the boy who cried wolf
phenomenon. With a lot of these crappy alt.country bands -- fill in the blanks
-- there's an inverse proportion between all the self-generated hype and
the
Hopefully my last post on this one
This is where you lose me, Todd, because I haven't suggested, nor do I think
Mr. Anonymous suggested, that some external authority ought to shut anyone
down.
Yes, perhaps "shut down" is too strongly worded, and I certainly don't
think anyone is suggesting
On Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:18:52 PDT Greg Harness said:
Jon Weisberger wrote:
Well, I'd say that a show billed as an alt.country showcase is one that's
at
least to some degree marketing the acts who appear on it as
representative
of the genre, and I'd say it's reasonable for people, especially
so my advice to you is to
avoid eating Malaysian food at that terrible place I've heard about, though I
wouldn't counsel you to avoid that kind of food altogether. g
I'll keep that in mind, Bill, and stick with pizza. Have a great weekend
everybody...and Jon, make sure to crack the whip tonight
Greg, a/k/a "Mr. Onus," says:
Jon, would you say then that if a 'bad' bluegrass band gets booked at a
festival, the potential bad impression that could be loosed upon an
unexpecting audience is the fault of the promoter? Or does the onus fall
upon the band itself?
Mostly the promoter, no
At 4:11 PM -0400 on 4/23/99, Jon Weisberger wrote:
Ummm, who are these bands that are getting on the radio and
turning newbies off of "altcountry"?
I could name some pretty rotten Southern Ohio bluegrass bands
That doesn't answer the question, which was about alt country... g
Bob
well, what the hell is alt country then?
I'd say it depends on where you are coming from personally. I get many
albums I feel are pure AAA but are promoted as Americana/alt.country.
When I point out the lack of any resemblance to country music as I know it I
get various responses. After
Boy. Ya go away for a week to the rural pleasures of Las Vegas, Nevada and
you come back and there's this long give and take Update thread about
what's alt.country or not and what lousy bands do if they come from Chicago
and some long-absent voices reappear and it looks like things in this
Matt B writes:
The only more painful show I've sat thru in recent memory was the
Blacks, who couldn't mumble their way out of the cloud of inarticulate
hipsterism (and no, I don't know what that means, but it sounds good!).
What people see or hear in this act, I don't get. Oh, wait, they have
contain the odd
where-the-hell-did-THAT-come-from cover version which almost justifies
their existence.
Richard
-Original Message-
From: Marie Arsenault [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, April 23, 1999 3:42 PM
To: passenger side
Subject: RE: Updates
I'm going to go out on a limb
...do the Ralph Stanley things count as tributes?
I'd say not, but there are two excellent tributes to the Stanley
Brothers/Ralph Stanley: The Stanley Tradition and Songs About Our Savior
(a/k/a The Stanley Gospel Tradition), both on the Doobie Shea label.
Actually, there are a number of
here's the piece Don's talking about:
Ruminations on SXSW '99 and the "Alt.Country" phenomenon from an insiders
perspective (and no, it's not me) :
Well another SXSW has come and gone. And sure I saw a few good bands and
hung out with old friends, but overall I am left with a really bad taste
If you were to ask any hard working country musician the difference they
would tell you its all about the sincerity of the performer. Any 99%
percent of these bands got no heart.
And this is the only part of the anonymous diatribe that I might disagree
with, or at least amend. It's not
Mark Rubin spit:
These "alt-country" showcases were packed with scenesters dressed
up like they were going to a Hee-Haw theme party. Women in
pig-tails and guys in spray painted straw hats that would surely
get their asses kicked in an actual honky-tonk.
Funny...I was at a real country
On Thu, 22 Apr 1999, Dave Purcell wrote:
Nice rant, Mark.
Just to clarify, it wasn't written by Mr. Rubin (or so he sez, and I don't
see any reason to doubt him). He attributed it to an anonymous
"insider."--don
Yeah, Don I can agree with most of this critique in general terms,
until we get to the sincerity bit. As I've said so many times, the
"sincerity" argument never gets it for me. But I'm certainly all for
more musicianship and less scenester 'tude
--junior
Don Yates wrote:
On Thu, 22 Apr 1999, M Rubin wrote:
Just added an essay on the "Alt.Country" showings at the recent SXSW
conference on my homepages, in case anyone was interested.
http://markrubin.com
Y'all might do well to check out that provocative li'l essay. It brings
up the
Bill Silvers says:
Like I said about pop music last week, there's always a lot more
mediocre or worse bands than good or great ones. Do those bands,
in whatever genre, drag that style of music down for the other
people playing it? What makes "the roots music movement" different?
Anonymous
On Thu, 22 Apr 1999, Jon Weisberger wrote:
As for why the "roots music movement" is different in this regard, the short
answer, IMO, is unfamiliarity. People's exposure to bluegrass, or
alt.country, for instance, is a lot smaller and a lot chancier, hence the
greater likelihood that
Yates opines:
Anyway, it's too bad the person who wrote
that essay spent so much time with the cartoon crowd down there -- he/she
must've missed James Hand, Justin Trevino, Don Walser, Paul Burch, Dale
Watson and all the other hardcore traditionalists types that played this
year.--don
Ah, but
As for why the "roots music movement" is different in this
regard, the short
answer, IMO, is unfamiliarity. People's exposure to bluegrass, or
alt.country, for instance, is a lot smaller and a lot chancier,
hence the
greater likelihood that hearing someone who, pardon my French,
sucks
On Thu, 22 Apr 1999, M Rubin wrote:
Ah, but that's the point.
Those artists aren't "alt." anything.
They are country and western artists, period.
Let's get that established once and for all.
Oh, I'm well aware of that -- I was just pointing out that it seemed silly
for our anonymous
Heh, apologies for the messge meant for Mark Rubin g.
I think we know who gets this year's Fowler Award at Twangfest for Most
Embarrassing Private Post Sent To The List this year. Good one,
Junior!g--don
Always ready to please, Don g. Laura will get to laugh at me, this
time...
--jr.
Yeah, I'm laughing alright! I'm also wondering which bands you're talking
about. HOpefully, not my boyfriend's band, buster! Ha! LF
At 07:21 PM 4/22/99 -0500, you wrote:
Always ready to please, Don g. Laura will get to laugh at me, this
time...
--jr.
Hey there,
Dave, who hates all things Chicago...
Yep, I've said that out here, oh, 30 or 40 times g. When I was
there, if you take away Robbie Fulks, you're not left with much (the
Wacos are fun, but face it, they're a rock band). Since then, the
fabulous Kellys -- Kessler and Hogan -- have
Excerpts from internet.listserv.postcard2: 22-Apr-99 Updates and SXSW
Stuff by Christopher M Knaus@juno
What's on the list of "Cities with good
alt.country music scene's that get a large amount of press." Um, Austin,
erm, Chicago, maybe Nashville, maybe St. Louis - that's abo
Just added an essay on the "Alt.Country" showings at the recent SXSW
conference on my homepages, in case anyone was interested.
___
Mark Rubin
POB 49227, Austin TX 78765
http://markrubin.com
I know he's on tour right now, is he still doing the solo-acoustic
thing? (hope so, personally g). How are the shows? Please let me know if
possible...
thx,
dan
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
BIG thanks to all who have been providing SXSW reports "from the field." Have
been enjoying all of them. Keep 'em comin!!
Any word on Cisco yet?? He had to have been great!
Kate
In a message dated 3/20/99 8:09:44 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Any word on Cisco yet?? He had to have been great!
cisco is playing this afternoon at the No Depression/Miles of Music party
cohosted our own Weiss brothers. Hayseed is also on the bill. Before that
Hi folks!
Being a P2 newcomer, I don't know what the protocol is for requesting updates,
so here goes:
Anyone in attendance at this year's SXSW finding him/herself in a particularly
compassionate mood to share the vibe on-line...please, pass along highlights
of the morning, noon or evening
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