Re: [talk-ph] Open Data Day 2013 on February 23
Open data day will be tomorrow. We have lunch and coffee. Bring your favorite chichiria for sharing. Start charging your machines and see you all in the morning! Maning Sambale (mobile) On Feb 18, 2013 8:45 PM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Everyone, Less than a week for our Open Data Day celebration. We have a few interesting ideas posted in the event page [0]. Please go over the what to hack/map section [1] so that you have an idea on what you want to participate with during the event. We have more than 30 participants who signified interest (I hope I can get enough chairs to squeeze in our conference room :-)) A GIS group in Leyte will also join us through G+ Hangout [2]. One reminder for those with cars, ADMU has implemented a oneway traffic scheme within the campus [3]. I have updated OSM to reflect this change but unfortunately, OSRM cannot give you any good routing suggestion because the service does not route on roads with access restrictions. But basically, every vehicle should enter the campus via Gate 3 [4]. See you all next Saturday! [0] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Philippines/Events/Open_Data_Day_2013 [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Philippines/Events/Open_Data_Day_2013#What_to_hack.2Fmap [2] https://plus.google.com/events/c3e56gdingmj4m7238n9c16oa9s?authkey=CLi-jIGOoMHdrwE [3] http://www.admu.edu.ph/news/vehicles-follow-ateneo-way-one-way-scheme-goes-effect [4] http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=14.640476mlon=121.074695zoom=18layers=M On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 9:33 AM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the FB event and for making wikipage look better. On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 12:40 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: I've created the Facebook event page that you can all use to promote this event: https://www.facebook.com/events/200206363454234/ If you have a Facebook account and are going to the event, why not add yourself to the event page so that your friends can get interested as well. :) On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 7:11 PM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: A couple of updates on the event, we have three interesting ideas to map and hack: - help improve the OSM coverage at ARMM and teach ARMM staff to edit in OSM - hack around the open data provided by DSWD - help ASOG Inclusive Mobility project with mapping Metro Manila public transport terminals and hub If you have other ideas, just edit the wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Philippines/Events/Open_Data_Day_2013 On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 7:19 PM, rem zamora pompy...@gmail.com wrote: anak ng tokwa february 23 pa pala akala ko january 23. buti na lang may assignment ako kanina hahaha. see you FEBRUARY 23! :) rem On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 9:21 AM, RK rk.ara...@gmail.com wrote: Sounds fun. Saving the date :) On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 8:25 AM, rem zamora pompy...@gmail.com wrote: sorry guys mukhang di ako makakapunta, may assignment ako sa cavite. enjoy the activity! :) On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Ed Garcia eppgar...@gmail.com wrote: Ay sama ako diyan! I am sure may mapupulutan ako from you guys hehehe Paano mag-signup? sorry ha... di ako marunong magdagdag ng name sa mga wiki na yan. :) On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 2:09 PM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: This will be a full day event but very informal. You can come and go anytime but please add your name for logistical planning purpose because we have limited space. I invited some people who have some interesting problem which I hope we can help. The wiki is till in planning stage please add your interest (anything about OSM and open data). http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Philippines/Events/Open_Data_Day_2013 On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 1:55 PM, rem zamora pompy...@gmail.com wrote: what time ba eto? try ko dumaan :) magdala ako drinks :) On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 1:39 PM, Rally de Leon rall...@gmail.com wrote: rem, pwedeng-pwede. dun lang tayo sa isang corner para sa pulutan session... ;-) On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 1:21 PM, rem zamora pompy...@gmail.com wrote: pwede ba sa pulutan session na lang pumunta? :) im not as techie as all of you. im better with mano-manong mapping :) rem On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 1:10 PM, Rally de Leon rall...@gmail.com wrote: I can bring fried-itik for pulutan :-) On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 12:42 PM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: Any idea where we can get some sponsorship for food? :) ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org
[OSM-talk-be] How to map a - nieuw menu
Als je nu kijkt op http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:NL:How_to_map_a:A zal je zien dat het veel makkelijker wordt om de vertaling te doen. Op elk blad is nu een menu waardoor je makkelijk kan overschakelen van het ene (duitse) blad naar het andere (nl) blad. 1) kies duits item en kopieer CTRL-C 2) druk nu op DEL 3) opslaan duits item (is nu verwijderd) 4) ga naar beginletter 5) doe een paste CTRL-V op de juiste plaats ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-talk-be] Openbaar vervoer/Transports publics
*Le français suit en bas.* Ik zal dit in 2 talen schrijven in plaats van in het Engels. Dat kost wat meer moeite, maar het lijkt me belangrijk dat iedereen mee kan volgen en reageren. Bij het mappen van de bushaltes, kom ik een aantal zaken tegen die we 's moeten bespreken: *Haltenaam:* Op de haltes zelf staat gewoonlijk de naam zonder de gemeente. Op de dienstregelingen staat gewoonlijk de deelgemeente gevolgd door de naam. In West-Vlaanderen (regio Brugge + ong 30 km) heeft Zors gewoonlijk de dienstregelingen gevolgd. (Ofwel staan er daar overal lange namen op de haltes). Ook aan de andere kant van het land, heeft Gilbert het zo gedaan. In de rest van Vlaanderen zie ik overwegend enkel de naam staan. Ik was begonnen met de (deel)gemeente in addr:city onder te brengen. Wie dat wenst, kan het dan zelf weer samenbrengen. Ik merk nu echter dat de naam in de dienstregelingen die voor de eigenlijke naam komt, soms ook de naam van het gehucht is. Zelf was ik begonnen om alleszins voor bushaltes die bij een station liggen of lagen er toch bij te vermelden over welk NMBS-station het gaat. In ieder geval ben ik gaandeweg die haltes aan het nakijken en soms laat ik die lange naam maar staan, maar volgens mij zou het beter zijn om het overal op dezelfde wijze te doen. *Meerdere operatoren:* Haltes die bediend worden door bussen van verschillende operatoren, hebben soms 2 knopen, gewoonlijk 1 knoop met daarop operator=De Lijn;TEC. Ik zou willen voorstellen om per operator een aparte knoop te gebruiken, bijvoorbeeld: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/2777350 De Lijn + TEC + MIVB http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/2777985 De Lijn + Airportbus De meeste haltes zijn uiteraard eenvoudiger. Ook in Brussel is het eerder uitzonderlijk dat haltes bediend worden door alle drie de Belgische operatoren. Waar ik niet helemaal zeker van ben, of het OK is, is dat ik voor de halte van De Lijn de naam enkel in het Nederlands heb gezet, voor die van TEC enkel in het Frans en voor die van MIVB/STIB en de public_transport=stop_area-relatie, waarin alles gegroepeerd zit, de naam tweetalig, plus name:nl en name:fr, zoals dat in Brussel gebruikelijk is. Reageer in de taal waarin je het vlotste schrijft, of in beide landstalen als je wilt. Engels kan natuurlijk ook, maar niet iedereen begrijpt dan wat je zegt. Jo J'écris en français et en néerlandais, car je veux que tout le monde soit inclus. Il s'agit surtout sur les arrêts de bus en Flandre, mais j'en toucherai aussi au delà de la frontière linguistique et surtout à Bruxelles. (La traduction n'est pas complètement symmétrique...) *Les nom des arrêts:* En Flandre comme en Wallonie, on trouve d'habitude les noms sans les communes. Dans les horaires ils sont préfixés de la commune. En Flandre occidentale, comme à l'autre coté du pays en Limbourg, il y a des contributeurs qui ont commencé de mettre le nom de la commune dans le nom de l'arrêt. Moi-même je l'avais ajouté dans le tag addr:city, sauf pour les gares, où j'avais ajouté de quelle gare SNCB il s'agit. Il serait mieux si on se met d'accord quelle stratégie que nous allons utiliser, façon de le faire partout de la même manière. *Plusiers opérateurs:* Nous avions commencé d'utiliser un noeud pour les arrêts désservis par plusieurs opérateurs: operator=De Lijn;TEC A partir de maintenant, j'aimerais proposer d'utiliser un noeud par opérateur: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/2777350 De Lijn + TEC + STIB http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/2777985 De Lijn + Airportbus La plupart des arrêts est plus simple que celui-là. Même à Bruxelles il est plutôt exceptionnel de trouver des arrêts désservis par les trois opérateurs belges. Ce dont je ne suis pas tout à fait certain, c'est que pour le noeud qui représente l'arrêt de De Lijn j'ai inclu que le nom en néerlandais, pour celui du TEC que en français en pour celui de STIB/MIVB et la relation public_transport=stop_area qui regroupe le tout, le nome en bilingue, plus name:fr er name:nl, comme c'est l'habitude à Bruxelles. Mettez vos réactions dans la langue qui vous convient le mieux, ou dans les 2 langues. Ou en anglais, bien sûr, mais pas tout le monde peut suivre ce que vous énoncez dans ce cas. Jo ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Openbaar vervoer/Transports publics
I don't have any experience with multiple operator stops, so I don't have an opinion about that. About the stop name, it's indeed poor that you can have a lot of stops with the name dorp or station on the same line. You don't know where the stop is. So village names in the stop name would be great. Until now, it was impossible to include village names in the stop name (unless you have close contacts with De Lijn), as you say, sometimes the hamlet names are used. So we had to check the database from De Lijn, which was forbidden. Since you now have access to the complete database, and are allowed to use it, I would vote to include the village name in the stop name, just as they display it on their site. Regards, Sander Op 22 februari 2013 21:53 schreef Jo winfi...@gmail.com het volgende: *Le français suit en bas.* Ik zal dit in 2 talen schrijven in plaats van in het Engels. Dat kost wat meer moeite, maar het lijkt me belangrijk dat iedereen mee kan volgen en reageren. Bij het mappen van de bushaltes, kom ik een aantal zaken tegen die we 's moeten bespreken: *Haltenaam:* Op de haltes zelf staat gewoonlijk de naam zonder de gemeente. Op de dienstregelingen staat gewoonlijk de deelgemeente gevolgd door de naam. In West-Vlaanderen (regio Brugge + ong 30 km) heeft Zors gewoonlijk de dienstregelingen gevolgd. (Ofwel staan er daar overal lange namen op de haltes). Ook aan de andere kant van het land, heeft Gilbert het zo gedaan. In de rest van Vlaanderen zie ik overwegend enkel de naam staan. Ik was begonnen met de (deel)gemeente in addr:city onder te brengen. Wie dat wenst, kan het dan zelf weer samenbrengen. Ik merk nu echter dat de naam in de dienstregelingen die voor de eigenlijke naam komt, soms ook de naam van het gehucht is. Zelf was ik begonnen om alleszins voor bushaltes die bij een station liggen of lagen er toch bij te vermelden over welk NMBS-station het gaat. In ieder geval ben ik gaandeweg die haltes aan het nakijken en soms laat ik die lange naam maar staan, maar volgens mij zou het beter zijn om het overal op dezelfde wijze te doen. *Meerdere operatoren:* Haltes die bediend worden door bussen van verschillende operatoren, hebben soms 2 knopen, gewoonlijk 1 knoop met daarop operator=De Lijn;TEC. Ik zou willen voorstellen om per operator een aparte knoop te gebruiken, bijvoorbeeld: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/2777350 De Lijn + TEC + MIVB http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/2777985 De Lijn + Airportbus De meeste haltes zijn uiteraard eenvoudiger. Ook in Brussel is het eerder uitzonderlijk dat haltes bediend worden door alle drie de Belgische operatoren. Waar ik niet helemaal zeker van ben, of het OK is, is dat ik voor de halte van De Lijn de naam enkel in het Nederlands heb gezet, voor die van TEC enkel in het Frans en voor die van MIVB/STIB en de public_transport=stop_area-relatie, waarin alles gegroepeerd zit, de naam tweetalig, plus name:nl en name:fr, zoals dat in Brussel gebruikelijk is. Reageer in de taal waarin je het vlotste schrijft, of in beide landstalen als je wilt. Engels kan natuurlijk ook, maar niet iedereen begrijpt dan wat je zegt. Jo J'écris en français et en néerlandais, car je veux que tout le monde soit inclus. Il s'agit surtout sur les arrêts de bus en Flandre, mais j'en toucherai aussi au delà de la frontière linguistique et surtout à Bruxelles. (La traduction n'est pas complètement symmétrique...) *Les nom des arrêts:* En Flandre comme en Wallonie, on trouve d'habitude les noms sans les communes. Dans les horaires ils sont préfixés de la commune. En Flandre occidentale, comme à l'autre coté du pays en Limbourg, il y a des contributeurs qui ont commencé de mettre le nom de la commune dans le nom de l'arrêt. Moi-même je l'avais ajouté dans le tag addr:city, sauf pour les gares, où j'avais ajouté de quelle gare SNCB il s'agit. Il serait mieux si on se met d'accord quelle stratégie que nous allons utiliser, façon de le faire partout de la même manière. *Plusiers opérateurs:* Nous avions commencé d'utiliser un noeud pour les arrêts désservis par plusieurs opérateurs: operator=De Lijn;TEC A partir de maintenant, j'aimerais proposer d'utiliser un noeud par opérateur: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/2777350 De Lijn + TEC + STIB http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/2777985 De Lijn + Airportbus La plupart des arrêts est plus simple que celui-là. Même à Bruxelles il est plutôt exceptionnel de trouver des arrêts désservis par les trois opérateurs belges. Ce dont je ne suis pas tout à fait certain, c'est que pour le noeud qui représente l'arrêt de De Lijn j'ai inclu que le nom en néerlandais, pour celui du TEC que en français en pour celui de STIB/MIVB et la relation public_transport=stop_area qui regroupe le tout, le nome en bilingue, plus name:fr er name:nl, comme c'est l'habitude à Bruxelles. Mettez vos réactions dans la langue qui vous
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Openbaar vervoer/Transports publics
Als het niet duidelijk is of de naam van de gemeente, deelgemeente of gehucht moet gebruikt worden, dan ben ik voorstander van enkel de naam op de bushalte te vermelden. Mappen wat er op de grond is. Ik begrijp wel dat een dienstregeling waar vier keer Kerk staat niet echt duidelijk is en dat er daarom de naam van de gemeente wordt bijgezet. Maar die informatie kan je afleiden uit de positie van de halte. Als je dat wil kan je extreem zelfs Kerk, Laarstraat, 2840 Reet, Rumst, Provincie Antwerpen, Vlaanderen, België als naam van de bushalte schrijven, maar is dat nodig ? :-) m. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Openbaar vervoer/Transports publics
Tja, als ze dan nog altijd de juiste gemeente naam voor hun haltes moesten hebben... De halte van de Nieuwstraat in Rumst is een paar honderd meter opgeschoven en ligt daarmee in Terhagen. Ga je telkens de naam van de halte aanpassen ? m. 2013/2/22 Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com Als het niet duidelijk is of de naam van de gemeente, deelgemeente of gehucht moet gebruikt worden, dan ben ik voorstander van enkel de naam op de bushalte te vermelden. Mappen wat er op de grond is. Ik begrijp wel dat een dienstregeling waar vier keer Kerk staat niet echt duidelijk is en dat er daarom de naam van de gemeente wordt bijgezet. Maar die informatie kan je afleiden uit de positie van de halte. Als je dat wil kan je extreem zelfs Kerk, Laarstraat, 2840 Reet, Rumst, Provincie Antwerpen, Vlaanderen, België als naam van de bushalte schrijven, maar is dat nodig ? :-) m. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Openbaar vervoer/Transports publics
Op 22 februari 2013 22:55 schreef Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com het volgende: Tja, als ze dan nog altijd de juiste gemeente naam voor hun haltes moesten hebben... De halte van de Nieuwstraat in Rumst is een paar honderd meter opgeschoven en ligt daarmee in Terhagen. Ga je telkens de naam van de halte aanpassen ? m. Well, that's just the problem. I like to refer to the name they use, but until now, this was impossible. They don't always use the name of the village, or use the name of the wrong village. That's why it should at least be in a separate tag (it can't be deduced from the position), or in the name. Regards, Sander ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Openbaar vervoer/Transports publics
Vermits Google ook de volledige naam gebruikt, zou ik dat ook doen. Ook in de mobiele toepassingen van De Lijn worden de volledige namen vermeld. @Marc : zijn dat de haltes 106760 en 106770 ? De namen zijn daar nl. Terhagen Nieuwstraat. mvg, Georges 2013/2/22 Sander Deryckere sander...@gmail.com Op 22 februari 2013 22:55 schreef Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com het volgende: Tja, als ze dan nog altijd de juiste gemeente naam voor hun haltes moesten hebben... De halte van de Nieuwstraat in Rumst is een paar honderd meter opgeschoven en ligt daarmee in Terhagen. Ga je telkens de naam van de halte aanpassen ? m. Well, that's just the problem. I like to refer to the name they use, but until now, this was impossible. They don't always use the name of the village, or use the name of the wrong village. That's why it should at least be in a separate tag (it can't be deduced from the position), or in the name. Regards, Sander ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Question about copyrighted hiking routes in France
On what basis do they claim ownership of the routes, exactly? As I understand it, many of these routes link up lots of little trails that had been around for decades. How did copyright get transferred from the people who created the trails to the FFRP? Or do they claim ownership only over new sections? Or only over a particular representation? They established a route that for instance allows to from city A to city B but not with the short way. Instead, it is going left and right to visit points of interest, alpine hutch and so on. They claim that such a work is an original work. For a comparison, I would say it is like a tourist car route. The castle route (or usually wine routes in France ;-) is using existing roads (national, local...) to visit a maximum castles. Along the route, you will find signpost marked castle route. Eric ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Question about copyrighted hiking routes in France
On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 4:11 AM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: Are they aware that all the data has been created independently, by surveying the trail - not by actually copying their data? I think you mix two things : the physical trails, paths which are not copyrighted and not discussed here. And the route, the itinerary which is all trails, paths, roads linked together and is the original work, the creation which is considered as copyrightable in France (as soon as it is considered as enough original). Pieren ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Question about copyrighted hiking routes in France
-Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: - To: Licensing and other legal discussions. legal-talk@openstreetmap.org From: Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com Date: 22/02/2013 03:12AM Subject: Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Question about copyrighted hiking routes in France On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 11:22 PM, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote: First issue : it is the hiking route names themselves. For all of them created by the FFRP, the names are registered trademarks and cannot be used without permission (see question below). Second issue : the routes themselves are copyrighted. Hi Pieren, I am also not a lawyer, but here's my two cents. First, it would be really said if we lost the GR routes. I recently hiked about half of the GR20, using the OSM route of course. So I don't think we should give up easily - they're so valuable. On the trademark front, it should be easy to establish if they have a genuine complaint. If they do, I think we can change the names without losing too much - even if had to call them French hiking route 20 or something. Second issue : it is maybe a more specific French issue here because the routes themselves can be copyrighted when they are considered as original work. A famous case confirmed this with the IGN (publishing the FFRP maps) sueing a guidebook editor [5] and confirmed by the highest court in France (1ere chambre de la cour de cassation de Paris, decision of 30 june 1998 [8]. I don't know if this is the same in other countries but a significant part of the OSM community in France would consider deleting the FFRP hiking routes completely (and not only the trademarks mentionned in Q1). On what basis do they claim ownership of the routes, exactly? As I understand it, many of these routes link up lots of little trails that had been around for decades. How did copyright get transferred from the people who created the trails to the FFRP? Or do they claim ownership only over new sections? Or only over a particular representation? Are they aware that all the data has been created independently, by surveying the trail - not by actually copying their data? I wonder where the exact line would be drawn - what if we didn't have routes, but just the trails marked. But then, how would you label such a trail - often they have no other name other than the GR number, plus the name of the next landmark. Presumably someone has sought French legal advice? What was it? Steve ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Question about copyrighted hiking routes in France
Second issue : it is maybe a more specific French issue here because the routes themselves can be copyrighted when they are considered as original work. A famous case confirmed this with the IGN (publishing the FFRP maps) sueing a guidebook editor [5] and confirmed by the highest court in France (1ere chambre de la cour de cassation de Paris, decision of 30 june 1998 [8]. I don't know if this is the same in other countries but a significant part of the OSM community in France would consider deleting the FFRP hiking routes completely (and not only the trademarks mentionned in Q1). On what basis do they claim ownership of the routes, exactly? As I understand it, many of these routes link up lots of little trails that had been around for decades. How did copyright get transferred from the people who created the trails to the FFRP? Or do they claim ownership only over new sections? Or only over a particular representation? Apologies - may have sent a blank response by accident. So does FFRP hiking routes include *any* waymarked/signposted trail in France? I hope not, as that would imply that OSM could not be used at all for planning/doing walks in France. I guess OSM would in that case need to come to some sort of agreement with FFRP/IGN. I'm not sure how French law on public access compares to the UK's, in my (limited) experience (Alpes-Maritimes/Mercantour area, north of Nice) certain trails are waymarked, others aren't but are subject to Defense d'entrer signs or similar... which is basically like the UK. More philosophically the idea of someone claiming copyright on walking routes seems completely at odds with the nature of countryside walking, which to my mind has similar free and open values to open source software and data (the landowners and their Keep out signs being similar to proprietary licencing) Nick ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] License question, user clicking on map
On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 12:16 AM, Olov McKie o...@mckie.se wrote: I work for a library where we are building a new version of an application to handle all sort of collections, for example books, letters, images, music sheets, etc. The application will store metadata and digitalized versions of the works. To know where an item was created, a letter sent from / to, etc we need to store places and information about them. The information we normally store about a place is name, alternative names, names translated to different languages, etc. A place might be a historic one that no longer exists. [..] We will not be able to share the complete db under the ODbL as the works have all kinds of licenses that are incompatible with the ODbL. Hej Olov, this is an interesting project. You are going to produce some pretty awesome data, spend countless hours of work, money and publish it for free, and then when the project is over it will bitrot because of license issues.. This is a perfect example of where a hardline stance on license will serve you. Sure there are projects in OSM that can benefit of those historical names, but I'm saying this for you, don't waste effort unless you know what will happen to the data. Go and talk with the nice folks at: http://www.creativecommons.se/ (in Gothenburg I think) http://se.wikimedia.org/ (offices in Stockholm so you can probably pop by) 1. If we present an OSM map to the user let them click on the map and OSM doesn't allow to inclusion of data from Google maps that was entered this way. But lots and lots of people do it e.g. Wikipedia, so it's up to you, but it's not unproblematic. 2. If we use the overpass API to find possible matches for a placename entered by a user, The question you have to ask is it ok under ToS of Google Maps address searching (geocoding). Well except that part where you are not allowed to use Google products behind a firewall. So I do not agree at all with Alex Barth on this, but I've been wrong before. Lycka till, och ge inte upp! Erik Johansson ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Question about copyrighted hiking routes in France
Eric Sibert wrote: They established a route that for instance allows to from city A to city B but not with the short way. Instead, it is going left and right to visit points of interest, alpine hutch and so on. They claim that such a work is an original work. Yes, I can see that. I've planned such routes (http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/65903, in particular); it's hard work and requires a lot of judgement. It would qualify for sweat-of-the-brow copyright protection in the UK were it not for the statutes expressly limiting this to original literary, dramatic, musical or artistic works; sound recordings, films or broadcasts; and the typographical arrangement of published editions. French law appears to have no such limitation. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/OSM-legal-talk-Question-about-copyrighted-hiking-routes-in-France-tp5750170p5750333.html Sent from the Legal Talk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Question about copyrighted hiking routes in France
On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 9:20 PM, Nick Whitelegg nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk wrote: More philosophically the idea of someone claiming copyright on walking routes seems completely at odds with the nature of countryside walking, which to my mind has similar free and open values to open source software and data (the landowners and their Keep out signs being similar to proprietary licencing) And pragmatically, there are real problems when an organisation that establishes a route also seeks to derive income from selling information about it. It seems logical, until your realise that the organisation's two goals (promoting a route by disseminating information about it; and gaining income to achieve the primary goal) are completely contrary to each other. The Tasmanian Trail is completely obscure because the only information about it is in a mail-order paperback. To walk/ride the Great Dividing Trail requires paying for four really crappy maps. (Hopefully in two weeks' time it will be 90% OSM'ed.) Rail Trails Australia was heading in a similar direction, but I helped convince them that sharing information about the trails *is* their mission. Maybe the FFRP could be persuaded eventually? Convince them to give up claims of copyright on the route geography, and focus on prose descriptions, subjective details etc? Steve ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] License question, user clicking on map
Hej Erik! Would you please consider reading my mail one more time, and clarify your answers, because I do not understand what you are trying to say. No where in my mail did I say anything about using Google maps or their API, yet for the two usecases you have answered about are you talking about using Google Maps. You are also writing about adding data to OSM, that is not the scenario I have described in our usecases. /Olov On Fri, Feb 22, 2013, Erik Johansson erjo...@gmail.com wrote: I work for a library where we are building a new version of an application to handle all sort of collections, for example books, letters, images, music sheets, etc. The application will store metadata and digitalized versions of the works. To know where an item was created, a letter sent from / to, etc we need to store places and information about them. The information we normally store about a place is name, alternative names, names translated to different languages, etc. A place might be a historic one that no longer exists. [..] We will not be able to share the complete db under the ODbL as the works have all kinds of licenses that are incompatible with the ODbL. Hej Olov, this is an interesting project. You are going to produce some pretty awesome data, spend countless hours of work, money and publish it for free, and then when the project is over it will bitrot because of license issues.. This is a perfect example of where a hardline stance on license will serve you. Sure there are projects in OSM that can benefit of those historical names, but I'm saying this for you, don't waste effort unless you know what will happen to the data. Go and talk with the nice folks at: http://www.creativecommons.se/ (in Gothenburg I think) http://se.wikimedia.org/ (offices in Stockholm so you can probably pop by) 1. If we present an OSM map to the user let them click on the map and OSM doesn't allow to inclusion of data from Google maps that was entered this way. But lots and lots of people do it e.g. Wikipedia, so it's up to you, but it's not unproblematic. 2. If we use the overpass API to find possible matches for a placename entered by a user, The question you have to ask is it ok under ToS of Google Maps address searching (geocoding). Well except that part where you are not allowed to use Google products behind a firewall. So I do not agree at all with Alex Barth on this, but I've been wrong before. Lycka till, och ge inte upp! Erik Johansson ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] License question, user clicking on map
Hi Alex, You might want to clarify because your email is a bit confusing. My understanding is you are saying I would like it to be this way, but at the moment it is not. Correct? Yes it is important to clarify the share alike clause, but I think also important not to confuse people asking how the licensing currently works. -Kate On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com wrote: I think all of these use cases should be ok and we should adjust the community guide lines to clarify that ODbL's share alike clause shouldn't kick in here. On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 6:16 PM, Olov McKie o...@mckie.se wrote: Hello all! I have a few usecases for OSM where I do not know if I can use it or not. I work for a library where we are building a new version of an application to handle all sort of collections, for example books, letters, images, music sheets, etc. The application will store metadata and digitalized versions of the works. To know where an item was created, a letter sent from / to, etc we need to store places and information about them. The information we normally store about a place is name, alternative names, names translated to different languages, etc. A place might be a historic one that no longer exists. In the current system, metadata about a place is constructed by giving it a name, known variations of the name, which country it is in (problematic as it might change over the time) and translation of the name. As an OSM user and contributor my first reaction was, we can make the places more precise and avoid the changing countries problem by using coordinates for places, and also present them in a better way. As the applications data should be readable for a long time (forever), will we be storing all metadata together with the digitalized objects. We will over the lifetime of the application construct several thousand places. We will not be able to share the complete db under the ODbL as the works have all kinds of licenses that are incompatible with the ODbL. The resulting system will be accessible for anyone from the Internet, subsections might have restricted access. 1. If we present an OSM map to the user let them click on the map and use the coordinates they clicked on as part of the metadata for a place in our application, will the resulting database be considered a derived database? To clarify, we would not extract any information from the map, beside the coordinates that the user clicked on, they would by themselves navigate the map to for example London and then click somewhere in London. 2. If we use the overpass API to find possible matches for a placename entered by a user, present the possible matches with markers on a map and let the user click on the map and use the coordinates the user clicks on, will the resulting database be considered a derived database? Again, we would not extract any information from the map, beside the coordinates that the user clicked on. Presenting the markers would of course help the user find a place, such as London. 3. If we use the overpass API to find possible matches for a placename entered by a user, present the possible matches with markers on a map and if we have more then one result ask the user to fill in more details about the place such as, country, region, close to major city, local name, etc until overpass only returns on result, would the user entered data be considered a derived database? To clarify, in this case would we not extract the coordinates or any other data from the map. 4. If we present several places (all data about the place including coordinates originates from other sources than OSM) on an OSM map to help find duplicates, and then lets the user click on two places marked on the map, to merge them into one, would the resulting database be considered a derived database? I would love for us to use OSM in our application, but I have been unable to find out if we can use it for the four usecases presented above. with hope of a speedy answer /Olov ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Revival: Multilingual Country-List
Am 21.02.2013 13:01, schrieb Hans Schmidt: Am 21.02.2013 12:36, schrieb Peter Wendorff: Well... if there's no localized name tag, then you may omit the name:xx tag for that language, as there's no alternative. On the other hand name:de might be useful even then, as it's possible to translate programmatically if the software knows about the language. The German suffixes -straße, -weg, -platz could be automatically transcoded to street, way and square, the afaik swedish -gatan is street again, väg is way and so on. But if you try to translate something to another language this way where you don't know the source language, it's much more difficult. Why would you want to translate the street names? Do you want to translate Paris' “Avenue des Champs-Élysées” to “Allee der Champs-Élysées”? Nobody would know what it is anymore. Also, nobody wants to translate a “Lindenallee” in some minor german town to “Linden avenue”. Also, automatic translation would be error prone. For complete names you may be right, but for Natural Language Generation used in tools based on osm data parts of names might be useful to translate. For the Lindenallee this might translate to Go down the alley... where alley might not be a given classification by tags, but due to the name only. So a recommendation might be to - always tag name - if you translate name into different languages, always add name:originalLanguageCode with the same content - if you want, add that even if you don't translate it to different languages. Yes, that's redundant - but it's easy to cut out for software (cut out every language attribute that equals the plain name), if wanted; and it's less error prone than a tag like language=de or like the lists of default language areas you propose above. Sure: These list are helpful for all cases where only name is given, and that's a necessity for great software dealing with that, but that's the way defaults in OSM work: there should be a few defaults for mappers, where they should decide to not add a tag, but more defaults for data consumers, who could/should be able to have a best guess where data is missing. You say that there should be few defaults for mappers. But what you propose is exactly the opposite: You'd have a default, meaning that you would need to create a name:originallanguage even if there is a name present. I would bet that nobody does this. And if you don’t do it like that, chaos will occur if you decide to display the name. Wait... I agree: even in the long term the majority of objects for sure will not have a name:originallanguage in addition to the only plain name tag. This is part of the incompleteness we have everywhere in osm. I disagree, that this would lead to chaos for itself. Imagine a text based application that could be read aloud by software. To do that properly names should be spoken with the pronunciation of the language they are from. Let's consider a screenreader for browsers and a browser based application as an example. The output of Dies ist der Times Square in New York (this is the Times Square in New York) is simple to do, but a screen reader based only on German as a language would speak it out roughly like (not sure if I get it comparable for English speakers here): Dees ist der Teames Square in Nu Johk, because nobody could know that Times Square and New York are names based on the English language. In a website, additional markup could ideally solve that (given that the screenreader supports english language as well in the users setup): p lang=deDies ist der span lang=enTimes Square/span in span lang=enNew York/span/p. But to generate markup like this the software has to know about the language. Sure: this may be done by approximation based on the area in the world, and yes, developers have to use something like that for the usual case where the languages is still unknown, but in the text-to-speech area this would produce many wrong results by accident. In contrast, if you do it based on region, it would simplify things much more: 1. You take the nodes/relation for Canada, add language=en. 2. You take the nodes/relation for Québec: language=fr Then everybody would just continue using name=British Columbia and name=Montréal, and no problem. The multilingual renderer would then show, in case the user wants to see French names, name=Montréal and name:fr=Colombie-Britannique. If the user is English, he would show name:en=Montreal and name:British Columbia. I completely agree, as long as it's only about displaying. I completely agree that this is a valid fallback, but as I showed above that is not able to solve all problems. Even for rendering I'm not sure if that's really an optimal solution for languages written right-to-left or downwards. Here you have to know at least this characteristics of the language to decide about label sizes and placements - not sure if that's really given in the unicode characters
Re: [OSM-talk] Revival: Multilingual Country-List
Am 21.02.2013 17:47, schrieb moltonel 3x Combo: [...] Besides, I actually think that adding the redundant name:XX tag is actually simpler than modifying the code of many renderers to take something completely new into account. On the other hand, it should be very easy to check that if a place has at least one name:xx tag, it should also have one that matches the name tag either inside the editor or via a bot. Not sure about that. Up to know (as far as I know) some areas of the world decided to use a combination of two languages or name transcriptions in the name tag, like Japan [1] or Brussels [2]. A bot would contradict a working local community decision here, why I would oppose to automatically enforce that by a bot or to show that as en error by default. This might change as soon as the most prominent/important osm maps like our mapnik rendering support setting the language like in Jochens Multilingual Map project, but up to then it's IMHO a bad idea to enforce tag wars in multilanguage areas due to bugs raised by some bot that tries to enforce a name:xx being equal to name. regards Peter [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=36.009lon=139.057zoom=10layers=M [2] http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.84654lon=4.351686zoom=18layers=M ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] additional layers on osm.org
Hi Tom! 2013/2/21 Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu Well öpnvkarte was considered along with the current transport layer and the decision was that having two transport layers would be silly and that we preferred the one that we are currently offering. OK, (what I remember reading on the list was that, primary, it was because the transport map was easier/quicker to implement and it was made by Andy Allan(but possibly this was for the same reason: quick implementation)) but when directly comparing the two, I find that öpnvkarte offers a lot more information, including train lines, tram lines, underground lines and directional information. Look at this map from Frankfurt (one of the few German cities with real underground lines): http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.10744lon=8.66401zoom=16layers=T and http://öpnvkarte.de/?zoom=16lat=50.10744lon=8.66401layers=TBTTThttp://xn--pnvkarte-m4a.de/?zoom=16lat=50.10744lon=8.66401layers=TBTTT It would be cool to have this stuff on the main page - I don't really care which map provides it, but the information is IMHO important. Nobody has ever asked OWG to consider hikebikemap. OK, what I personally ike about it is that it's a rather light style that works great with hill shading. -Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] additional layers on osm.org
On 22/02/13 10:10, Martin Simon wrote: OK, (what I remember reading on the list was that, primary, it was because the transport map was easier/quicker to implement and it was made by Andy Allan(but possibly this was for the same reason: quick implementation)) but when directly comparing the two, I find that öpnvkarte offers a lot more information, including train lines, tram lines, underground lines and directional information. I have no idea where you got that idea as I don't recall that being discussed at all in the meeting, and I don't see why either one would have been any quicker to implement than the other. The actual vote was done by a secret ballot, so we can't know for sure why people made the choice they did, but the discussion as I recall it largely centred on the cartography. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Android routing application - With some level of OFFLINE address search
I have taken a look at ZaNavi OSMAND etc., on android. Most of these in offline mode offer only POI search. If I want to search for an address(need not be house numbers) and enter a road name, it usually does not work. Anybody has any success for OFFLINE address search, where I can put in something like XYZ Road And then it gives me names of all XYZ roads in an order dependent on distance of object from my current location. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Android routing application - With some level of OFFLINE address search
If you want to help in developing the feature for easy street searching, you can donate to the cause here: http://www.bidforfix.com/p/osmand.net/ Under fulltext street/address search with suggesting. I guess this is what you are talking about? Janko 2013/2/22 Tanveer Singh tanveer1...@gmail.com I have taken a look at ZaNavi OSMAND etc., on android. Most of these in offline mode offer only POI search. If I want to search for an address(need not be house numbers) and enter a road name, it usually does not work. Anybody has any success for OFFLINE address search, where I can put in something like XYZ Road And then it gives me names of all XYZ roads in an order dependent on distance of object from my current location. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Revival: Multilingual Country-List
Am 21.02.2013 19:50, schrieb Miloš Komarčević: +1 This is why we (well, all credit goes to user mpele) started with our own transliteration plugin (Serbian Cyrillic - Serbian Latin) [1], based on the tag editor plugin: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM/Plugins/TagEditor It could be a nice idea to extend this to a more general purpose multilingual editor, with e.g. copy source lang to dest lang option, more transliteration filters, etc. M [1]http://svn.mpele.iz.rs/SerbianTransliterator/ This would be really great. Actually, if you are already doing something like this, your plugin would be the best starting point, I guess. I guess all languages with non-latin script would need a similar approach like Serbia (Actually, every language: A russian person would prefers to read American cities in Cyrillic): A fast method to translate a huge number of tags without wasting any time with selecting nodes, opening dialog windows, closing them etc. A tabular approach is really the only feasible method, in my opinion. I don’t know if the Serbian transliteration can be done automatically, but in other languages, a manual approach is often necessary. Still, the plugin could then be amended by some automatic plugins (Japanese-reading, Cyrillic-Latin etc). My imagination of this plugin is the following: 1. Well, as my screenshot described it 2. You can select certain groups, and then only they will be displayed: all cities, all towns, all streets etc. This is easier because it is likely that you don’t want to translate _everything_ at once, but rather in a systematic way. 3. You can select a node in the table if you don’t know what it is, and then return to the map where it is highlighted. And, as I said, easy integration of the Overpass API in JOSM, so that you can download a group of nodes for an entire country, without having to download the entire country. Well, this can be done in the web browser right now, but it would be more user friendly in JOSM. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Android routing application - With some level of OFFLINE address search
Am 22.02.2013 11:17, schrieb Tanveer Singh: I have taken a look at ZaNavi OSMAND etc., on android. Most of these in offline mode offer only POI search. If I want to search for an address(need not be house numbers) and enter a road name, it usually does not work. Anybody has any success for OFFLINE address search, where I can put in something like XYZ Road And then it gives me names of all XYZ roads in an order dependent on distance of object from my current location. Osmand offers address search which works reasonable well for me. What one could see as missing is that it does not apply address interpolations, so that for address interpolations in the map only the explicitly tagged nodes at both ends are found. On the other hand I personally like this decision at least as one option as it shows where additional mapping might be necessary, and looking at the map it's easy to interpolate by hand in these cases. If you didn't find the address search: go to the search activity where as a default the POI search is selected (icon is an italic i bubble) and select the address search (icon is the house) instead. regards Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Revival: Multilingual Country-List
Am 21.02.2013 11:43, schrieb moltonel 3x Combo: Consider this usecase : * I prefer to read French but can also read English, so I set may language priority to name:fr - name:en - name. * I now take a look at a country like Central African Republic whose local name is a French one. * If the name:fr tag is present I get to see the French name. * If the name:fr is removed, I get to see the English name, which is acceptable but suboptimal. So instead of saying that one may delete the name:xx tag if it is identical to the name tag (to reduce bloat, presumably), the multilingual-country-list should encourage to add the name:xx tag in all cases. Yes, I see that problem. I removed the offending paragraph and the orange coloring. Redundancy is not bad in this case. Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Revival: Multilingual Country-List
On 22 February 2013 09:42, Peter Wendorff wendo...@uni-paderborn.de wrote: So: - Yes: Software developers should support guessing the natural languages (where that's necessary) - No: Mappers should NOT delete localized name tags even if these are equal to the local one out of the assumption of redundancy. - No: Mappers should NOT be told to never add localized tags where only one single name tag exists. Amen to that. I'd even encourage mappers to add the identical name:XX if any name:YY is present, but I know it's a tougher sell. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Revival: Multilingual Country-List
On 22 February 2013 09:51, Peter Wendorff wendo...@uni-paderborn.de wrote: Am 21.02.2013 17:47, schrieb moltonel 3x Combo: [...] Besides, I actually think that adding the redundant name:XX tag is actually simpler than modifying the code of many renderers to take something completely new into account. On the other hand, it should be very easy to check that if a place has at least one name:xx tag, it should also have one that matches the name tag either inside the editor or via a bot. Not sure about that. Up to know (as far as I know) some areas of the world decided to use a combination of two languages or name transcriptions in the name tag, like Japan [1] or Brussels [2]. A bot would contradict a working local community decision here, why I would oppose to automatically enforce that by a bot or to show that as en error by default. You're right, that's a false-positive right there. It could be fixed by improving the heuristic, but I'm not sure it's worth the trouble. JOSM users are used to ignore some types of validator warnings, and I dare hope that any bot admin wouldn't let it run without carefull checking. This might change as soon as the most prominent/important osm maps like our mapnik rendering support setting the language like in Jochens Multilingual Map project, but up to then it's IMHO a bad idea to enforce tag wars in multilanguage areas due to bugs raised by some bot that tries to enforce a name:xx being equal to name. Looking forward to that, but it'll probably be a while before we have it ? But even if all renderers become multilingual, as long as there is a plain name tag, there'll be arguments about which language to put in it. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Interesting cases of vandalism?
(Apologies for cross-posting) Hi all, I am an academic researcher and I am studying the issue of vandalism in OpenStreetMap (see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Vandalism http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Vandalism for a general discussion). I am very interested in the motivations that lead users to vandalise OpenStreetMap. Can you point me to specific instances of vandalism that have an *identifiable reason*? Examples might include: - People changing borders of countries in conflict zones - People renaming famous places with their name/interests - Companies damaging data to prevent competition (such as the alleged vandalism by Google’s contractors) - People damaging symbolic places (e.g. deletion of the White House or the Eiffel Tower) - People damaging data to bully locals/other users - People creating imaginary places - People who are frustrated with the editing tools and start using them to damage data Thanks in advance for sharing your experiences! Mulone -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Interesting-cases-of-vandalism-tp5750346.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Revival: Multilingual Country-List
Am 22.02.2013 14:22, schrieb moltonel 3x Combo: On 22 February 2013 09:51, Peter Wendorff wendo...@uni-paderborn.de wrote: Am 21.02.2013 17:47, schrieb moltonel 3x Combo: [...] Besides, I actually think that adding the redundant name:XX tag is actually simpler than modifying the code of many renderers to take something completely new into account. On the other hand, it should be very easy to check that if a place has at least one name:xx tag, it should also have one that matches the name tag either inside the editor or via a bot. Not sure about that. Up to know (as far as I know) some areas of the world decided to use a combination of two languages or name transcriptions in the name tag, like Japan [1] or Brussels [2]. A bot would contradict a working local community decision here, why I would oppose to automatically enforce that by a bot or to show that as en error by default. You're right, that's a false-positive right there. It could be fixed by improving the heuristic, but I'm not sure it's worth the trouble. improving by enforcing these local agreements? well... that's an ugly solution, too IMHO. It would put logics about local community agreements into global code... JOSM users are used to ignore some types of validator warnings, and I dare hope that any bot admin wouldn't let it run without carefull checking. Right, but why changing automatically, if you could point the local mappers to these problems easy by hints. This might change as soon as the most prominent/important osm maps like our mapnik rendering support setting the language like in Jochens Multilingual Map project, but up to then it's IMHO a bad idea to enforce tag wars in multilanguage areas due to bugs raised by some bot that tries to enforce a name:xx being equal to name. Looking forward to that, but it'll probably be a while before we have it ? But even if all renderers become multilingual, as long as there is a plain name tag, there'll be arguments about which language to put in it. yes. That's why I guess there will be these combined-names in some areas for the next years if not forever, as long as the main renderers render name as the main fallback. If you enforce - by an editing bot or by raising error messages - at least one localized name to be equal to the name attribute, mappers will either be offended and leave the project or they will find a solution, imagine name:communityagreement=Bruxelles - Brussel - just to make sure the name the community want's to see in the name tag and rendered on the most prominent maps. We already have mappers like this, naming POIs by their category because then even that label would be rendered, if an icon is missing; tagging golf course bunker as beach because that's shown on mapnik, which surface=sand is not (or was not some time ago). regards Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Interesting cases of vandalism?
On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 7:28 AM, Mulone mul...@rome.com wrote: (Apologies for cross-posting) Hi all, I am an academic researcher and I am studying the issue of vandalism in OpenStreetMap (see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Vandalism http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Vandalism for a general discussion). I am very interested in the motivations that lead users to vandalise OpenStreetMap. Can you point me to specific instances of vandalism that have an *identifiable reason*? Examples might include: - People changing borders of countries in conflict zones - People renaming famous places with their name/interests - Companies damaging data to prevent competition (such as the alleged vandalism by Google’s contractors) - People damaging symbolic places (e.g. deletion of the White House or the Eiffel Tower) - People damaging data to bully locals/other users - People creating imaginary places - People who are frustrated with the editing tools and start using them to damage data Thanks in advance for sharing your experiences! Mulone Are you only looking at intentional vandalism? One common thing I've seen is new users not understanding that they are editing *THE* map. They just want to make some simplified map for an event they are doing or something. So they delete all the rivers and some minor roads. Toby ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Interesting cases of vandalism?
Hi Mulone, This UN Dispatch article(1) mentions some of the main streets in Jalalabad, Afghanistan having joke names. Note this has since been fixed by those same mappers. Hameed who is mentioned in the article also spoke at last years State of the Map Conference. -Kate (1) http://www.undispatch.com/how-afghan-mappers-punked-apple On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 8:28 PM, Mulone mul...@rome.com wrote: (Apologies for cross-posting) Hi all, I am an academic researcher and I am studying the issue of vandalism in OpenStreetMap (see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Vandalism http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Vandalism for a general discussion). I am very interested in the motivations that lead users to vandalise OpenStreetMap. Can you point me to specific instances of vandalism that have an *identifiable reason*? Examples might include: - People changing borders of countries in conflict zones - People renaming famous places with their name/interests - Companies damaging data to prevent competition (such as the alleged vandalism by Google’s contractors) - People damaging symbolic places (e.g. deletion of the White House or the Eiffel Tower) - People damaging data to bully locals/other users - People creating imaginary places - People who are frustrated with the editing tools and start using them to damage data Thanks in advance for sharing your experiences! Mulone -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Interesting-cases-of-vandalism-tp5750346.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Interesting cases of vandalism?
2013/2/22 Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com: Are you only looking at intentional vandalism? One common thing I've seen is new users not understanding that they are editing *THE* map. They just want to make some simplified map for an event they are doing or something. So they delete all the rivers and some minor roads. I can confirm this, all replies I ever got from people which I asked about their deletions from the map were saying that they hadn't understood they were editing the main official database. Usually they wanted a clean printout and therefore deleted some POIs in the way, or others drew a motorway zigzag over the city center. Other kind of vandalism are mappers who want to correct perceived errors (they prefer different tags, or they have read in the wiki that a certain tag is deprecated and so they delete these tags or change them to other tags (that are maybe not in broader use)). This is partly also happening where it wouldn't be necessary from a technical point of view (different keys), but some mappers think that there should be _one_ main key describing an object so they remove deprecated tags as duplicates (an example would be highway=bus_stop vs. public_transport tags). Yet another kind of vandalism (or maybe better spam) is created intentionally by people in order to promote certain businesses, e.g. a dance club where tourism=attraction is added. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Comments On New Tile Layer Guideline Process
On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 11:27:13AM -0500, Jason Remillard wrote: This is the wiki document that contains the process for adding new tile layers to the main osm page. Here is the process. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Strategic_working_group/New_Tile_Layer_Guidelines - Global scope and coverage Why does this requirement exist? As an example, if we put a winter sports layer up, do we really need to render a map where it does not snow? Covering everything makes sense for many layers, but the process document has this as a requirements. You could also conceive of situations where showing a broken/poor map rendering could be used to rally people to action. For example, don't like the satellite images for you area, go bang on your local government and get the images released. I think this requirement is important. You don't want to offer users the choice of a map and when they switch to it they see an error message. Of course if there is nothing in that area the map can show blank spots. I interpret this role as show data everywhere in the world if there is some, not as has to have something on every tile in the world. - Unique, Interesting The strategic working group goes into a closed room and has a secrete ballet to vote and decides on these two items. For example, current transportation map and the http://xn--pnvkarte-m4a.de map are kind of close the decision was made to drop http://xn--pnvkarte-m4a.de. However, having reviewed http://xn--pnvkarte-m4a.de in my area, I am certain that http://xn--pnvkarte-m4a.de is far better than our transportation map for public transportation. For everybody that is mapping train stations and bus stops, they should be looking at http://xn--pnvkarte-m4a.de to figure out the best tagging, because our default transportation map is doing it wrong. It would not be a big deal if we had both layers available. By not using both, I am certain our mapping for public transit is worse off. We actually have another major software group in OSM that has a similar problem. JOSM! I know what you thinking. It is not fair to compare osm.org and JOSM. JOSM is written by a bunch of hippie Germans. They are well know for disliking process and truly enjoy anarchy. Keeping that in mind, If you want to add an image layer to JOSM, you go and edit a wiki page and add your url + boundary shape. No two page process document, no closed door meeting, no secrete ballets. You know what has happened? I have 6 unique and interesting layers available where I map. It just seemed to work out somehow. I am always confused by the many background image layers and styles etc. in JOSM and tend to stick to the defaults. It is good to have many options but it also makes sense not to show everything all the time, because it confuses users. Even a power user like me. How bad will this be for newbies? The list of default map layers is *content*. Just like the map, just like the wiki, just like the diary entries, etc. It is completely inappropriate for the computer system administrators of the osm web server to be sitting behind closed door and making these kinds of decisions for everybody. If same process was used to make changes to the actual map data, it would be seen as clearly out of bounds. osm.org is not medical or avionics software. If there is a broken map layer, it is really not that big of a deal, life will go on. The rest of the osm.org site will continue to function. This heavy process is simply not needed. This is what the process should be. - Make is so we can use smaller map layers. - do a license check on the tiles + data. Obviously, it needs to be an OSM based map. - make sure it is up to date and syncing with our diffs, - make sure it actually works - stick it in - if is breaks, take it out. - If nobody uses take it out. - If you get too many, figure out what to take out on this list. For the record, this would be a good problem to have. The strategic working group is out of bounds on this issue and needs to get out of way. I am certain this heavy process is hurting the project. I think we need both. We need one place where everybody can just stick there map in. One place where it is very easy to contribute, without any control or just minimal control. And we need one place where some editorial oversight is done. Thats the main OSM web site. If there is too much half-working cruft on the main page people inside the project have a hard time finding the things that work and that they want to use. Worse, people outside the project will see it and just assume that OSM is broken. That doesn't help anybody. I do agree that any process by which these decisions are made should be as open as possible. If we had a everything goes-map we could look at the logs to decide which maps get used often, maybe add an I like it button and this way it would be easier to decide which maps to promote to the main site. So... who
Re: [OSM-talk] additional layers on osm.org
So I don't know if that will be good enough for most people (outside the US). Fair enough. Truth be told, I had originally wondered if Jason's resources would be best used by acting as a cache on the existing GeoDNS network rather than hosting any new tiles. Cheers, Joseph On 21 February 2013 17:11, Robert Scott li...@humanleg.org.uk wrote: On Thursday 21 February 2013, Joseph Reeves wrote: MapBox? http://mapbox.com/blog/open-aerial/ If you look at the phases table at the bottom of http://mapbox.com/blog/mapbox-satellite/ From what I can tell, only Phase 1 is going to be open. So I don't know if that will be good enough for most people (outside the US). robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Comments On New Tile Layer Guideline Process
From: Jochen Topf [mailto:joc...@remote.org] Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Comments On New Tile Layer Guideline Process So... who would like to build such a everything goes map site? I think it is relatively easy. One Openlayers of Leaflet site. http://mapstyle.petschge.de/ is one implementation of this, with a decent UI. http://www.openwhatevermap.org/ is another, without a decent UI. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Comments On New Tile Layer Guideline Process
What about enhancing the layer list by a more... option. Showing the main map layers as usual by default, but adding a e.g. git or wiki based list of layers dynamically added if the user wants. this could be a drop down box (probably enhanced by some autocomplete functionality or sth. like that), where users can search for buzzwords, layer names or simply scroll down and try out. On the one hand this would show that there are much more osm maps than the hand ful shown now, and it would allow stats about how interesting a particular map might be. regards Peter Am 22.02.2013 18:14, schrieb Jochen Topf: On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 11:27:13AM -0500, Jason Remillard wrote: This is the wiki document that contains the process for adding new tile layers to the main osm page. Here is the process. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Strategic_working_group/New_Tile_Layer_Guidelines - Global scope and coverage Why does this requirement exist? As an example, if we put a winter sports layer up, do we really need to render a map where it does not snow? Covering everything makes sense for many layers, but the process document has this as a requirements. You could also conceive of situations where showing a broken/poor map rendering could be used to rally people to action. For example, don't like the satellite images for you area, go bang on your local government and get the images released. I think this requirement is important. You don't want to offer users the choice of a map and when they switch to it they see an error message. Of course if there is nothing in that area the map can show blank spots. I interpret this role as show data everywhere in the world if there is some, not as has to have something on every tile in the world. - Unique, Interesting The strategic working group goes into a closed room and has a secrete ballet to vote and decides on these two items. For example, current transportation map and the http://xn--pnvkarte-m4a.de map are kind of close the decision was made to drop http://xn--pnvkarte-m4a.de. However, having reviewed http://xn--pnvkarte-m4a.de in my area, I am certain that http://xn--pnvkarte-m4a.de is far better than our transportation map for public transportation. For everybody that is mapping train stations and bus stops, they should be looking at http://xn--pnvkarte-m4a.de to figure out the best tagging, because our default transportation map is doing it wrong. It would not be a big deal if we had both layers available. By not using both, I am certain our mapping for public transit is worse off. We actually have another major software group in OSM that has a similar problem. JOSM! I know what you thinking. It is not fair to compare osm.org and JOSM. JOSM is written by a bunch of hippie Germans. They are well know for disliking process and truly enjoy anarchy. Keeping that in mind, If you want to add an image layer to JOSM, you go and edit a wiki page and add your url + boundary shape. No two page process document, no closed door meeting, no secrete ballets. You know what has happened? I have 6 unique and interesting layers available where I map. It just seemed to work out somehow. I am always confused by the many background image layers and styles etc. in JOSM and tend to stick to the defaults. It is good to have many options but it also makes sense not to show everything all the time, because it confuses users. Even a power user like me. How bad will this be for newbies? The list of default map layers is *content*. Just like the map, just like the wiki, just like the diary entries, etc. It is completely inappropriate for the computer system administrators of the osm web server to be sitting behind closed door and making these kinds of decisions for everybody. If same process was used to make changes to the actual map data, it would be seen as clearly out of bounds. osm.org is not medical or avionics software. If there is a broken map layer, it is really not that big of a deal, life will go on. The rest of the osm.org site will continue to function. This heavy process is simply not needed. This is what the process should be. - Make is so we can use smaller map layers. - do a license check on the tiles + data. Obviously, it needs to be an OSM based map. - make sure it is up to date and syncing with our diffs, - make sure it actually works - stick it in - if is breaks, take it out. - If nobody uses take it out. - If you get too many, figure out what to take out on this list. For the record, this would be a good problem to have. The strategic working group is out of bounds on this issue and needs to get out of way. I am certain this heavy process is hurting the project. I think we need both. We need one place where everybody can just stick there map in. One place where it is very easy to contribute, without any control or just minimal control. And we need one place where some editorial oversight is done. Thats the main OSM web site. If there is too much
[OSM-talk] Branding?
Hi All, Do we have any guidelines for use of the OSM brand? I'm aware that the OSM-GB issue gets raised every now and then but hadn't realised until today how easy it is to get confused between OSM.org and OSM-GB - see for example the OSM-GB wiki: http://www.osmgb.org.uk/osm-gb-wiki/index.php/Main_Page I'm all for third partly initiatives, but would rather see a bit more separation from OSM's brand. This would reduce confusion to new users who may seem confused as to why OSM appears to have a second presence in Great Britain. Regards, Rob ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Comments On New Tile Layer Guideline Process
On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 1:15 PM, Peter Wendorff wendo...@uni-paderborn.de wrote: What about enhancing the layer list by a more... option. Showing the main map layers as usual by default, but adding a e.g. git or wiki based list of layers dynamically added if the user wants. this could be a drop down box (probably enhanced by some autocomplete functionality or sth. like that), where users can search for buzzwords, layer names or simply scroll down and try out. On the one hand this would show that there are much more osm maps than the hand ful shown now, and it would allow stats about how interesting a particular map might be. Something like this I could actually see happening. Maybe even just a simple link titled More OSM maps that links to a wiki page. Something like this but more focused on different slippy map styles: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/List_of_OSM_based_Services Seems like a page like this might already exist but I'm not finding it at the moment. Toby ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Branding?
A trademark and other IP use policy is one of the things the new OSMF board has on its agenda to come up with this year (there are a couple of pieces missing to make this work, but they are being worked on), it is likely to be a joint effort between the CWG, LWG and interested board members. The case in question (naturally just my personal opinion) is the kind of confusing usage that we would like to avoid. It would be probably ok for a local OSMF chapter, but not for a project that is simply consuming OSM data. We clearly don't want come down heavily activities in the general OSM eco-system, so I would strongly suggest that anybody looking for a name in OSMverse, turn on their brains before they do something stupid. Simon PS: I'm sure both the CWG and the LWG will gladly voice their opinions, if asked, on any proposed OSM related names etc. Am 22.02.2013 20:41, schrieb Rob Nickerson: Hi All, Do we have any guidelines for use of the OSM brand? I'm aware that the OSM-GB issue gets raised every now and then but hadn't realised until today how easy it is to get confused between OSM.org and OSM-GB - see for example the OSM-GB wiki: http://www.osmgb.org.uk/osm-gb-wiki/index.php/Main_Page I'm all for third partly initiatives, but would rather see a bit more separation from OSM's brand. This would reduce confusion to new users who may seem confused as to why OSM appears to have a second presence in Great Britain. Regards, Rob ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Display names of crossroads
Hello, I just wondered if there is something productive in the making concerning the crossroad names, or did it somehow end without anything? How can I participate? Thanks. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] License Review
Hello all, Just want an opinion from someone a bit more knowledgeable in the field of license compatibility. In Canada, New Brunswick, Service New Brunswick has a vast amount of geodetic data that could be very useful to OSM. Most notably a province wide address database. Just wondering if someone could read through this - http://geonb.snb.ca/downloads/documents/geonb_license_e.pdf and give me their opinion. Cheers, ingalls ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Interesting cases of vandalism?
I remember a case where a contributor was removing shop names (or even shop POI) because he did not want OSM to become too much shop oriented... but vandalism is quite unusual. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Interesting cases of vandalism?
Other kind of vandalism are mappers who want to correct perceived errors (they prefer different tags, or they have read in the wiki that a certain tag is deprecated and so they delete these tags or change them to other tags (that are maybe not in broader use)). This is partly also happening where it wouldn't be necessary from a technical point of view (different keys), but some mappers think that there should be _one_ main key describing an object so they remove deprecated tags as duplicates (an example would be highway=bus_stop vs. public_transport tags). Ouch, you hit a sore spot there. I'm in the process of adding 35000 stops for the northern part of Belgium. If I simply add the tags approved over a year ago, they won't be rendered. So I'll keep with the highway=bus_stop tag for the time being. Adding both ways of doing things seems like a waste of space and tagging for the renderer. Having to retag them in bulk sometime in the far away future, seems like pollution of the history, though. So the big question is: when will bus stops tagged with only the newly accepted system be rendered (preferably on all relevant renderings), so I can do this operation 'right' all in one go? I shudder at the tought that removing highway=bus_stop from them would be considered an act of vandalism. Maybe I should not care about rendering and simply not add that tag in the first place... Polyglot ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] License Review
** My Opinion ** It looks fine to me as it: 1. Allows the right to use, incorporate, sublicense (with further right of sublicensing), modify, improve, further develop, and distribute the Data; and to manufacture and / or distribute Derivative Products 2. Does not make a claim on any derivative work 3. And states that attribution is a choice. The only bit that worries me is sections 5 and 6 about Term and Termination. However it looks like the licence continues to roll on year-on-year unless you breach any of the conditions (which would be hard seeing as there aren't many conditions). I would say it's okay. Rob ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] License Review
nicholas ingalls wrote: Just want an opinion from someone a bit more knowledgeable in the field of license compatibility. In Canada *paging Richard Weait* cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/License-Review-tp5750426p5750441.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Interesting cases of vandalism?
The problem is that people think that a vote on the wiki pages means that the far more common tag is wrong. I tag my bus stops with highway=bus_stop (as well as operator, ref and shelter/bench information) From: Jo [mailto:winfi...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 2:35 PM To: Martin Koppenhoefer Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Interesting cases of vandalism? Ouch, you hit a sore spot there. I'm in the process of adding 35000 stops for the northern part of Belgium. If I simply add the tags approved over a year ago, they won't be rendered. So I'll keep with the highway=bus_stop tag for the time being. Adding both ways of doing things seems like a waste of space and tagging for the renderer. Having to retag them in bulk sometime in the far away future, seems like pollution of the history, though. So the big question is: when will bus stops tagged with only the newly accepted system be rendered (preferably on all relevant renderings), so I can do this operation 'right' all in one go? I shudder at the tought that removing highway=bus_stop from them would be considered an act of vandalism. Maybe I should not care about rendering and simply not add that tag in the first place... Polyglot ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Revival: Multilingual Country-List
In fact, here in Ottawa, Canada, we do name= for the English and then name:fr= for the French version, for all streets. Across the river in Gatineau, Quebec, the practice is to do name=a name in French and not bother with the English. I have no idea if software trying to process our region is aware of the difference. On 21/02/2013 7:01 AM, Hans Schmidt wrote: Am 21.02.2013 12:36, schrieb Peter Wendorff: Well... if there's no localized name tag, then you may omit the name:xx tag for that language, as there's no alternative. On the other hand name:de might be useful even then, as it's possible to translate programmatically if the software knows about the language. The German suffixes -straße, -weg, -platz could be automatically transcoded to street, way and square, the afaik swedish -gatan is street again, väg is way and so on. But if you try to translate something to another language this way where you don't know the source language, it's much more difficult. Why would you want to translate the street names? Do you want to translate Paris' “Avenue des Champs-Élysées” to “Allee der Champs-Élysées”? Nobody would know what it is anymore. Also, nobody wants to translate a “Lindenallee” in some minor german town to “Linden avenue”. Also, automatic translation would be error prone. So a recommendation might be to - always tag name - if you translate name into different languages, always add name:originalLanguageCode with the same content - if you want, add that even if you don't translate it to different languages. Yes, that's redundant - but it's easy to cut out for software (cut out every language attribute that equals the plain name), if wanted; and it's less error prone than a tag like language=de or like the lists of default language areas you propose above. Sure: These list are helpful for all cases where only name is given, and that's a necessity for great software dealing with that, but that's the way defaults in OSM work: there should be a few defaults for mappers, where they should decide to not add a tag, but more defaults for data consumers, who could/should be able to have a best guess where data is missing. You say that there should be few defaults for mappers. But what you propose is exactly the opposite: You'd have a default, meaning that you would need to create a name:originallanguage even if there is a name present. I would bet that nobody does this. And if you don’t do it like that, chaos will occur if you decide to display the name. In contrast, if you do it based on region, it would simplify things much more: 1. You take the nodes/relation for Canada, add language=en. 2. You take the nodes/relation for Québec: language=fr Then everybody would just continue using name=British Columbia and name=Montréal, and no problem. The multilingual renderer would then show, in case the user wants to see French names, name=Montréal and name:fr=Colombie-Britannique. If the user is English, he would show name:en=Montreal and name:British Columbia. Tell me where this is not easier than adding a redundant name:en or name:fr for every town, bus stop and street in Canada. You would only have to change the multilangual renderer so that it would display it like that. This is no problem because I guess it is still in development – It could be done relatively easy (from a non-developer standpoint speaking). Plus, most of todays nodes only have a name=... tag, not a name:xyz=... one. You would not need to change anything. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Comments On New Tile Layer Guideline Process
Hi The strategic working group goes into a closed room and has a secrete ballet to vote and decides on these two items. Actually, it's the OWG that makes these decisions. The SWG devised the process. Vast majority of what the OSMF does in not confidential, but certainly could be communicated better. Though on this point, this page does a pretty good job of summarizing the discussions. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Featured_tiles The strategic working group is out of bounds on this issue and needs to get out of way. I am certain this heavy process is hurting the project. This is really a design issue. I think the process is ok, if you consider the current site design of tile options. If the site design adapts, the process can adapt to it. What could improve is the design, setting up better expectations of reliability/coverage of different options there ... ie group tile sets into visual categories based on expected preformance. There was another suggestion on this thread to add configurable tile options, not a bad idea. Would also want to make it easy for users who don't understand tiles to see more breadth than is there currently. One other improvement might be to add zoom restrictions to certain tile sets. Everyone would like to see watercolor tiles on osm.org. Restricting/warning to some reasonable zoom level that Stamen can support (12?) would at least give the option. So what do we need? Some design work and little bit of front end and rails coding. Pull requests are the reality of improvements to osm.org. -Mikel * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron From: Jason Remillard remillard.ja...@gmail.com To: talk@openstreetmap.org Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 11:27 AM Subject: [OSM-talk] Comments On New Tile Layer Guideline Process Hi, This is the wiki document that contains the process for adding new tile layers to the main osm page. Here is the process. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Strategic_working_group/New_Tile_Layer_Guidelines - Global scope and coverage Why does this requirement exist? As an example, if we put a winter sports layer up, do we really need to render a map where it does not snow? Covering everything makes sense for many layers, but the process document has this as a requirements. You could also conceive of situations where showing a broken/poor map rendering could be used to rally people to action. For example, don't like the satellite images for you area, go bang on your local government and get the images released. - Unique, Interesting The strategic working group goes into a closed room and has a secrete ballet to vote and decides on these two items. For example, current transportation map and the http://xn--pnvkarte-m4a.de map are kind of close the decision was made to drop http://xn--pnvkarte-m4a.de. However, having reviewed http://xn--pnvkarte-m4a.de in my area, I am certain that http://xn--pnvkarte-m4a.de is far better than our transportation map for public transportation. For everybody that is mapping train stations and bus stops, they should be looking at http://xn--pnvkarte-m4a.de to figure out the best tagging, because our default transportation map is doing it wrong. It would not be a big deal if we had both layers available. By not using both, I am certain our mapping for public transit is worse off. We actually have another major software group in OSM that has a similar problem. JOSM! I know what you thinking. It is not fair to compare osm.org and JOSM. JOSM is written by a bunch of hippie Germans. They are well know for disliking process and truly enjoy anarchy. Keeping that in mind, If you want to add an image layer to JOSM, you go and edit a wiki page and add your url + boundary shape. No two page process document, no closed door meeting, no secrete ballets. You know what has happened? I have 6 unique and interesting layers available where I map. It just seemed to work out somehow. The list of default map layers is *content*. Just like the map, just like the wiki, just like the diary entries, etc. It is completely inappropriate for the computer system administrators of the osm web server to be sitting behind closed door and making these kinds of decisions for everybody. If same process was used to make changes to the actual map data, it would be seen as clearly out of bounds. osm.org is not medical or avionics software. If there is a broken map layer, it is really not that big of a deal, life will go on. The rest of the osm.org site will continue to function. This heavy process is simply not needed. This is what the process should be. - Make is so we can use smaller map layers. - do a license check on the tiles + data. Obviously, it needs to be an OSM based map. - make sure it is up to date and syncing with our diffs, - make sure it actually works - stick it in - if is breaks, take it out. - If nobody uses take it out. - If you get too many, figure out what to
[OSM-talk] Trace upload via API 0.6
Hi, I have a question regarding to programmatic trace file upload to OSM via the API. I hope I'm at the right place to ask here. According to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/API_v0.6#Uploading_traces, the fields are file, description, tags, public, and visibility. However on OSM website upload page (http://www.openstreetmap.org/trace/create), it says trace_gpx_file, trace_gpx_description, trace_tagstring, trace_visibility. Does that mean the API documentation is out of date or am I missing something? And is http://api.openstreetmap.org synonymous with http://www.openstreetmap.org? It seems sometimes I get redirected to the www site when I type in the api site. Also, when doing manual trace file upload via the browser with the developmental site: http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/, uploaindg just doesn't work for me. Timothy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Branding?
On 2013-02-23 09:05, Simon Poole wrote: A trademark and other IP use policy is one of the things the new OSMF How do we reconcile relatively permissive use of the OSM database, with relatively restrictive use of the Open Street Map name? For the moment, I put to one side Stallman's argument that there is no such thing as intellectual property [1]. It is contradictory to say one part of Open Street Map's intellectual property (the database) can be freely used, inspected, redistributed and modified, while another part (the name) cannot. Why is one shared, given away, while the other is guarded, coveted, owned, protected, monopolised? Of the four strands of intellectual property, three are willingly shared by and amongst digital commons projects: copyrightable material, databases and patents. The latter is an odd case in that publishing it means it can't be monopolised, but the end result is the same: neither of these three is owned and locked away from the rest of the world. The other strand, trademarks, is locked away by the various relevant projects. Any suggestions why? Or why we should continue to do this? [1] http://www.gnu.org/doc/fsfs-ii-2.pdf -- robin http://universitywithoutconditions.ac.nz - Auckland's Free University ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Display names of crossroads
On Sat, 23 Feb 2013 05:54:16 Hans Schmidt wrote: Hello, I just wondered if there is something productive in the making concerning the crossroad names, or did it somehow end without anything? How can I participate? Thanks. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk If you want OSM Mapnik to render something differently you need to submit a trac ticket. The instructions are here (3rd paragraph): http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mapnik I agree that there is a need for this, and I am happy with the simplicity of using junction=yes and name=*. If you don't submit a trac request, I will, but the link to trac is not working for me: trac.openstreetmap.org/query?component=mapnikorder=iddesc=1 Best wishes, Andrew ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[talk-au] Export a route?
Is there a way I can export a route as osm or gpx or kml from Openstreetmap. ie Mawson trail: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?relation=153983 I just want the lines that are part of this relation and nothing else. Thanks, David ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Export a route?
On 22/02/13 18:53, David Clark wrote: Is there a way I can export a route as osm or gpx or kml from Openstreetmap. ie Mawson trail: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?relation=153983 I just want the lines that are part of this relation and nothing else. You can do this in josm very easily 1 Starting with no data you go to Download from OSM 2 Select an area that only contains a part of the trail and nothing else, Click Download 3 Now select the section that has downloaded and the right side of the screen under properties will show Member Of and the relation name 4 Click on the relation name and then the edit button that appears underneath it 5 Down the bottom left of the windows that pops up is a button (second one from the bottom to be precise) that when you mouse-over it it will say Download all incomplete members click it and wait for the download to complete 6 You now have the trail and nothing else in your dataset and can export it in any format that josm supports ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Fwd: Re: Export a route?
http://cycling.waymarkedtrails.org/de/?zoom=8lat=-32.29866lon=138.82018hill=2 Click on the route button in the lower left corner, click on the route in question, theres aGPX button at the top of the popup. Simon Am 22.02.2013 09:53, schrieb David Clark: Is there a way I can export a route as osm or gpx or kml from Openstreetmap. ie Mawson trail: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?relation=153983 I just want the lines that are part of this relation and nothing else. Thanks, David ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [Talk-de] Foto-/Bilder-Server?
Hallo, Läßt sich das mit Google Summer Of Code 2013 (GSOC2013) machen? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2013/Project_Ideas Am 15.02.2013 01:17, schrieb Stefan Keller: Hallo Andreas, liebe Mapper Das mittlerweile bald in 19(!) Sprachen übersetzte Kort-Spiel (www.kort.ch ) soll in einer studentischen Arbeit weiterentwickelt werden, u.a. um die Möglichkeit Fotos an einem Ort zu hinterlegen. Dazu brauche ich einen Webservice, der Fotos verwaltet und zwar in einer zu OSM passenden Lizenz (nehme an CC BY-SA). Wenn nötig müssen wir einen solchen selber entwickeln. Angesichts des Hypes um Instagram, Flickr, TwitPic, Panoramio etc. würde mich das zwar verwundern. Mal sehen: ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Foto-/Bilder-Server?
Am 22. Februar 2013 17:43 schrieb Andreas Stenglein a.stengl...@gmx.net: Läßt sich das mit Google Summer Of Code 2013 (GSOC2013) machen? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2013/Project_Ideas Ja, das glaube ich schon, gegeben der Student kann Ruby. Habe mich kurz mit dem Autor von OpenStreetView, John McKerrell, ausgetauscht. Er ist offen für Verbesserungen. LG, S. Keller Am 22. Februar 2013 17:43 schrieb Andreas Stenglein a.stengl...@gmx.net: Hallo, Läßt sich das mit Google Summer Of Code 2013 (GSOC2013) machen? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2013/Project_Ideas Am 15.02.2013 01:17, schrieb Stefan Keller: Hallo Andreas, liebe Mapper Das mittlerweile bald in 19(!) Sprachen übersetzte Kort-Spiel (www.kort.ch ) soll in einer studentischen Arbeit weiterentwickelt werden, u.a. um die Möglichkeit Fotos an einem Ort zu hinterlegen. Dazu brauche ich einen Webservice, der Fotos verwaltet und zwar in einer zu OSM passenden Lizenz (nehme an CC BY-SA). Wenn nötig müssen wir einen solchen selber entwickeln. Angesichts des Hypes um Instagram, Flickr, TwitPic, Panoramio etc. würde mich das zwar verwundern. Mal sehen: ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-it] cartografia Comune di Venezia
:D +10 Il giorno 22 febbraio 2013 16:54, Luca Corsato luc...@gmail.com ha scritto: Signor* vi comunico che da oggi pomeriggio l'intera cartografia del Comune di Venezia è online scaricabile e rilasciata in IODL 2.0 questo è il *link http://dati.venezia.it/?q=content/cartografia-di-base* ciao a tutt* e sotto con il caricamento! luca ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it -- Andrea Zedda skype: andria.tzedda twitter: @Andria_Tzedda --- Kode srl via Gioacchino Volpe, 74 56121 Ospedaletto (Pisa) http://kode-solutions.net --- Sardinia Open Data http://sardiniaopendata.org/ --- ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] cartografia Comune di Venezia
Grande! Complimenti. luca Il 22 febbraio 2013 16:54, Luca Corsato luc...@gmail.com ha scritto: Signor* vi comunico che da oggi pomeriggio l'intera cartografia del Comune di Venezia è online scaricabile e rilasciata in IODL 2.0 questo è il link http://dati.venezia.it/?q=content/cartografia-di-base ciao a tutt* e sotto con il caricamento! luca ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it -- Passa al software libero! ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] cartografia Comune di Venezia
E la cosa che apprezzo ancora di piu' di questo rilascio e' che sara' anche usato per creare da subito un dialogo con la comunita' di openstreetmap GRANDIOSO! 2013/2/22 luca menini menini.l...@gmail.com: Grande! Complimenti. luca Il 22 febbraio 2013 16:54, Luca Corsato luc...@gmail.com ha scritto: Signor* vi comunico che da oggi pomeriggio l'intera cartografia del Comune di Venezia è online scaricabile e rilasciata in IODL 2.0 questo è il link http://dati.venezia.it/?q=content/cartografia-di-base ciao a tutt* e sotto con il caricamento! luca ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it -- Passa al software libero! ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it -- Maurizio Napo Napolitano http://de.straba.us ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] cartografia Comune di Venezia
È un lavoro di squadra e questa è la vera conquista! Sono distrutto anche perché ho chiuso oggi la strategia di sviluppo per generare web service ma è una stanchezza euforica! Il bello è che domani c'è metà ufficio sit per imparare a caricare su OSM e ricambiare :-D Che storia fioi! luca corsato fb luca.corsato tw lucacorsato www.lucacorsato.it Il giorno 22/feb/2013, alle ore 17:13, Maurizio Napolitano napoo...@gmail.com ha scritto: E la cosa che apprezzo ancora di piu' di questo rilascio e' che sara' anche usato per creare da subito un dialogo con la comunita' di openstreetmap GRANDIOSO! 2013/2/22 luca menini menini.l...@gmail.com: Grande! Complimenti. luca Il 22 febbraio 2013 16:54, Luca Corsato luc...@gmail.com ha scritto: Signor* vi comunico che da oggi pomeriggio l'intera cartografia del Comune di Venezia è online scaricabile e rilasciata in IODL 2.0 questo è il link http://dati.venezia.it/?q=content/cartografia-di-base ciao a tutt* e sotto con il caricamento! luca ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it -- Passa al software libero! ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it -- Maurizio Napo Napolitano http://de.straba.us ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] cartografia Comune di Venezia
sono veramente impressionato... addirittura il SIT carica su OSM. non ho parole è un capolavoro! Il giorno 22 febbraio 2013 17:37, Luca Corsato luc...@gmail.com ha scritto: È un lavoro di squadra e questa è la vera conquista! Sono distrutto anche perché ho chiuso oggi la strategia di sviluppo per generare web service ma è una stanchezza euforica! Il bello è che domani c'è metà ufficio sit per imparare a caricare su OSM e ricambiare :-D Che storia fioi! luca corsato fb luca.corsato tw lucacorsato www.lucacorsato.it Il giorno 22/feb/2013, alle ore 17:13, Maurizio Napolitano napoo...@gmail.com ha scritto: E la cosa che apprezzo ancora di piu' di questo rilascio e' che sara' anche usato per creare da subito un dialogo con la comunita' di openstreetmap GRANDIOSO! 2013/2/22 luca menini menini.l...@gmail.com: Grande! Complimenti. luca Il 22 febbraio 2013 16:54, Luca Corsato luc...@gmail.com ha scritto: Signor* vi comunico che da oggi pomeriggio l'intera cartografia del Comune di Venezia è online scaricabile e rilasciata in IODL 2.0 questo è il link http://dati.venezia.it/?q=content/cartografia-di-base ciao a tutt* e sotto con il caricamento! luca ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it -- Passa al software libero! ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it -- Maurizio Napo Napolitano http://de.straba.us ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it -- Andrea Zedda skype: andria.tzedda twitter: @Andria_Tzedda --- Kode srl via Gioacchino Volpe, 74 56121 Ospedaletto (Pisa) http://kode-solutions.net --- Sardinia Open Data http://sardiniaopendata.org/ --- ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] cartografia Comune di Venezia
Il 22/02/2013 17:37, Luca Corsato ha scritto: È un lavoro di squadra e questa è la vera conquista! Sono distrutto anche perché ho chiuso oggi la strategia di sviluppo per generare web service ma è una stanchezza euforica! Il bello è che domani c'è metà ufficio sit per imparare a caricare su OSM e ricambiare :-D Un ufficio da invidiare e da seguire:-) Ciao, Mario. Che storia fioi! luca corsato fb luca.corsato tw lucacorsato www.lucacorsato.it ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] cartografia Comune di Venezia
Complimenti! A domani allora! Amefad Il giorno venerdì 22 febbraio 2013, Mario Pichetti ha scritto: Il 22/02/2013 17:37, Luca Corsato ha scritto: È un lavoro di squadra e questa è la vera conquista! Sono distrutto anche perché ho chiuso oggi la strategia di sviluppo per generare web service ma è una stanchezza euforica!Il bello è che domani c'è metà ufficio sit per imparare a caricare su OSM e ricambiare :-D Un ufficio da invidiare e da seguire :-) Ciao, Mario. Che storia fioi! luca corsato fb luca.corsato tw lucacorsatowww.lucacorsato.it ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
[Talk-es] Estado de la importación de datos del Catastro
Hola a todos, Como voy a tener unos días un poco libres, me he puesto a retomar el tema del mapeo con los datos del catastro y la fantástica herramienta cat2osm2. He revisado la lista de correo y he estado mirando en la de imports a ver si había alguna novedad, pero no he visto nada concluyente, así que os pregunto directamente ¿Hay 'luz verde' para poder empezar a subir los datos? :-D De momento lo que he hecho es ejecutar cat2osm2 (versión del 1 de febrero de 2013) con los archivos del catastro de Talavera y de Cazalegas. Para facilitar la revisión, he ejecutado de momento sólo con los datos urbanos y en el caso de estos dos municipios, sería cuestión de utilizar las masas y los elementos puntuales, las vías están mejor en OSM. Mi intención es empezar con Cazalegas, que es más pequeño, además ya he juntado todos los ficheros de masas y luego lo he dividido en tres áreas (el pueblo en sí, una zona de polígono industrial y otra zona de urbanizaciones) y los estoy revisando ya. Mi primera duda es relativo a estas 'divisiones', de cara al servidor ¿es mejor muchos envíos pequeños o uno con todos los cambios? Otra duda, entiendo que hay que subir los datos con el usuario definido del catastro, pero he visto que hay ciertos errores en los datos del catastro. En principio mi idea es subirlo tal cual y corregir luego para mantener la coherencia, es decir, no atribuir al catastro cosas que no están en sus datos (o están diferentes). En la wiki he visto las páginas de las provincias y demás y me apuntaré como 'responsable' de Toledo (si no hay nadie que quiera el cargo ;-)), ¿Quién tiene los datos de la cuenta de OSM del usuario catastro_toledo? También he visto que se indica un correo 'import_provincia', ¿es una lista o algo? Un saludo, -- Antonio Navarro mailto:anto...@hunos.net mailto:antonio.navarro...@gmail.com mailto:antonio.nava...@hispalinux.es ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-es] Estado de la importación de datos del Catastro
Buenas, no soy el más experto en el cómo se va a hacer para subir las cosas pero mas o menos te respondo. El 22 de febrero de 2013 21:13, Antonio Navarro anto...@hunos.netescribió: Hola a todos, Como voy a tener unos días un poco libres, me he puesto a retomar el tema del mapeo con los datos del catastro y la fantástica herramienta cat2osm2. He revisado la lista de correo y he estado mirando en la de imports a ver si había alguna novedad, pero no he visto nada concluyente, así que os pregunto directamente ¿Hay 'luz verde' para poder empezar a subir los datos? :-D Eso nos gustaría saber a nosotros también jejeje Yo creo (*subrayo CREO*), que después de las simplificaciones hechas y que en la lista de imports no han puesto ninguna complicación salvo en alguna traducción de tags, en pueblos en los que no hay nada *la parte de edificios urbanos* (es decir, *las masas con código de masa de 5 caracteres*), no debería haber ningún problema. Otra cosa son ya las zonas rústicas, donde puede ser que no quieran tanto nivel de detalle de cultivos. Pero en cuanto a los edificios urbanos, no hay mucha más simplificación posible, es o eso o no ponerlos. De momento lo que he hecho es ejecutar cat2osm2 (versión del 1 de febrero de 2013) con los archivos del catastro de Talavera y de Cazalegas. Para facilitar la revisión, he ejecutado de momento sólo con los datos urbanos y en el caso de estos dos municipios, sería cuestión de utilizar las masas y los elementos puntuales, las vías están mejor en OSM. Si, tal y como se comentó, las vías (a parte de que en Catastro vienen bastante mal nombradas y sin conectar) principalmente deberían usarse como guía en algunas zonas rústicas donde no haya nada de nada en OSM. Por lo demás es mejor no usarlas. Mi intención es empezar con Cazalegas, que es más pequeño, además ya he juntado todos los ficheros de masas y luego lo he dividido en tres áreas (el pueblo en sí, una zona de polígono industrial y otra zona de urbanizaciones) y los estoy revisando ya. Mi primera duda es relativo a estas 'divisiones', de cara al servidor ¿es mejor muchos envíos pequeños o uno con todos los cambios? No se si Cazalegas es un pueblo que conoces muy bien, pero ten en cuenta que a la hora de juntar los datos de Cat2Osm2 junto con los existentes, allí donde haya conflictos* vas a necesitar conocer la zona*. Mientras no haya conflictos, nos fiamos de Catastro ya que no hay mas remedio pero cuando los haya (o por ejemplo para edificios con un uso concreto), seguramente los que hayan metido esa información en OSM lo hayan hecho mejor que la que tenga Catastro, o puede que estén mejor los tags pero no la geometría, etc y ahí vas a necesitar conocer la zona. Creo que lo mejor es subir los datos en porciones pequeñas (yo lo haría *por masa*), ya que así es más fácil de manejar los problemas (y seguramente si subes un cambio muy brusco y haya algo mal te lo tiren entero atrás o simplemente por ser muy grande te lo tiren atrás). Otra duda, entiendo que hay que subir los datos con el usuario definido del catastro, pero he visto que hay ciertos errores en los datos del catastro. En principio mi idea es subirlo tal cual y corregir luego para mantener la coherencia, es decir, no atribuir al catastro cosas que no están en sus datos (o están diferentes). Como he dicho, yo iría *a tamaño de masa*. Abriría una masa generada de Cat2Osm2 (principalmente las de 5 dígitos que son las urbanas. Las rurales no se si pondrán pegas), descargaría en otra capa lo existente en OSM y empezaría a comprobar de una capa a otra qué geometrías se pegan (aquí hace falta conocer la zona) y a borrar de una o otra lo necesario. Una vez hecho esto haces el merge de las dos capas en una sola y la validas con el validador de JOSM. Si todo está correcto yo lo subiría *con el nick de Catastro* (a ver si alguien que sepa mejor esto nos puede decir cómo está el tema) que se haya creado para ello. La atribución de Catastro yo la dejaría tal cual sin tocar nada ya que no estás diciendo que en Catastro esos datos estén tal cual, sino que te has inspirado en Catastro. Es como si usas PNOA como capa de fondo, no dices que esté en PNOA tal cual pero si que te has basado en la información que has visto en PNOA. Si habiendo conflicto dejas una geometría que ya estaba arriba, pues perfecto esa geometría no tiene nada que ver con Catastro. Pero si por el contrario creas una especie de híbrido pongamos con la geometría de catastro y los datos de la que existía en OSM, pues si que tiene que ver con Catastro. Eso si, no se si he entendido bien pero parece que comentas subir todo y luego hacer los cambios una vez subido. Eso no se puede hacer. Lo suyo es ir con JOSM en tu ordenador trozo a trozo arreglándolo todo (porque además JOSM te va a validar si hay alguna cosa incorrecta) y *solo subir lo que estés seguro de que está bien*. Si no, seguro que te van a tumbar cualquier subida que hagas, por mucho que luego vayas a
Re: [Talk-es] Estado de la importación de datos del Catastro
Eso si, no se si he entendido bien pero parece que comentas subir todo y luego hacer los cambios una vez subido. No, yo creo que lo he entendido, y es algo que alguna vez me planteé: ¿No debería atribuirme yo las mejoras que he hecho sobre el catastro? Además, así ¿tal vez se podría conservar una versión estable. Mi idea, tal y como comenta Ander es un rotundo no. La primera porque, si contribuyes en OSM sólo por el reconocimiento (que implica una licencia más restrictiva), podremos tener los mismos problemas que OSM tuvo con el cambio de licencia. Luego cualquiera que importe a partir de datos de catastro, incluido los arreglos básicos posteriores, tiene que aceptar contribuir con la mismas restricciones que el catastro: renuncia de todos los derechos para la Fundación OSM, excepto la atribución al catastro. Otra cosa son detalles que mejoren lo existente y que no sean obra derivada directa- sino que añadan cosas-, eso no sólo podemos, sino que debería editarse con la cuenta habitual. Predigo confusiones por esto (gente olvidándose de salir de las cuentas particulares creadas). Por otro lado, si empezamos a importar mal, tal y como comenta Ander, será muy fácil que la echen para atrás. Así que el workfow tiene que ser: Conversión - arreglo de una manzana - subida de una manzana - arreglo de una manzana - Subida de una manzana (no tiene que ser una a una, pero ya entendéis, de a pocos). Los datos de las cuentas están en el servidor de osm .es (@Perroverd?). @Ander, este fin de semana podríamos dar la lata un poco en imports? Aunque sea anunciar una importación piloto a la base de datos real. El día 22 de febrero de 2013 21:13, Antonio Navarro anto...@hunos.net escribió: Hola a todos, Como voy a tener unos días un poco libres, me he puesto a retomar el tema del mapeo con los datos del catastro y la fantástica herramienta cat2osm2. He revisado la lista de correo y he estado mirando en la de imports a ver si había alguna novedad, pero no he visto nada concluyente, así que os pregunto directamente ¿Hay 'luz verde' para poder empezar a subir los datos? :-D De momento lo que he hecho es ejecutar cat2osm2 (versión del 1 de febrero de 2013) con los archivos del catastro de Talavera y de Cazalegas. Para facilitar la revisión, he ejecutado de momento sólo con los datos urbanos y en el caso de estos dos municipios, sería cuestión de utilizar las masas y los elementos puntuales, las vías están mejor en OSM. Mi intención es empezar con Cazalegas, que es más pequeño, además ya he juntado todos los ficheros de masas y luego lo he dividido en tres áreas (el pueblo en sí, una zona de polígono industrial y otra zona de urbanizaciones) y los estoy revisando ya. Mi primera duda es relativo a estas 'divisiones', de cara al servidor ¿es mejor muchos envíos pequeños o uno con todos los cambios? Otra duda, entiendo que hay que subir los datos con el usuario definido del catastro, pero he visto que hay ciertos errores en los datos del catastro. En principio mi idea es subirlo tal cual y corregir luego para mantener la coherencia, es decir, no atribuir al catastro cosas que no están en sus datos (o están diferentes). En la wiki he visto las páginas de las provincias y demás y me apuntaré como 'responsable' de Toledo (si no hay nadie que quiera el cargo ;-)), ¿Quién tiene los datos de la cuenta de OSM del usuario catastro_toledo? También he visto que se indica un correo 'import_provincia', ¿es una lista o algo? Un saludo, -- Antonio Navarro mailto:anto...@hunos.net mailto:antonio.navarro...@gmail.com mailto:antonio.nava...@hispalinux.es ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es -- Jaime Crespo ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-es] Estado de la importación de datos del Catastro
Hola, A ver, intento explicarme mejor. No estoy planteando subir datos 'mal' o que rompan cosas que ya estén en OSM, para eso se revisa con JOSM y se 'mezcla' bien. Mi duda era, por ejemplo, una parcela que con los datos del catastro aparece como 'landuse=greenfield' (es decir, parcela sin construir) y que no está en OSM y yo sé que ya está construida y tiene una casa, incluso sale en las fotos aéreas del PNOA. Lo que planteaba era subir con el usuario del catastro esa información tal como ellos la tienen y después, corregirla o más bien 'mejorarla'. La cosa no era por el tema de la atribución, no pretendo hacerme famoso por andar mapeando ;-). Era más bien por respetar los datos del catastro y no atribuirles a ellos cosas que no estaban en sus ficheros originales, más que nada para tener claro de dónde sale la información. Un saludo, -- Antonio Navarro mailto:anto...@hunos.net mailto:antonio.navarro...@gmail.com mailto:antonio.nava...@hispalinux.es El 22 de febrero de 2013 22:23, Jaime Crespo jy...@jynus.com escribió: Eso si, no se si he entendido bien pero parece que comentas subir todo y luego hacer los cambios una vez subido. No, yo creo que lo he entendido, y es algo que alguna vez me planteé: ¿No debería atribuirme yo las mejoras que he hecho sobre el catastro? Además, así ¿tal vez se podría conservar una versión estable. Mi idea, tal y como comenta Ander es un rotundo no. La primera porque, si contribuyes en OSM sólo por el reconocimiento (que implica una licencia más restrictiva), podremos tener los mismos problemas que OSM tuvo con el cambio de licencia. Luego cualquiera que importe a partir de datos de catastro, incluido los arreglos básicos posteriores, tiene que aceptar contribuir con la mismas restricciones que el catastro: renuncia de todos los derechos para la Fundación OSM, excepto la atribución al catastro. Otra cosa son detalles que mejoren lo existente y que no sean obra derivada directa- sino que añadan cosas-, eso no sólo podemos, sino que debería editarse con la cuenta habitual. Predigo confusiones por esto (gente olvidándose de salir de las cuentas particulares creadas). Por otro lado, si empezamos a importar mal, tal y como comenta Ander, será muy fácil que la echen para atrás. Así que el workfow tiene que ser: Conversión - arreglo de una manzana - subida de una manzana - arreglo de una manzana - Subida de una manzana (no tiene que ser una a una, pero ya entendéis, de a pocos). Los datos de las cuentas están en el servidor de osm .es (@Perroverd?). @Ander, este fin de semana podríamos dar la lata un poco en imports? Aunque sea anunciar una importación piloto a la base de datos real. El día 22 de febrero de 2013 21:13, Antonio Navarro anto...@hunos.net escribió: Hola a todos, Como voy a tener unos días un poco libres, me he puesto a retomar el tema del mapeo con los datos del catastro y la fantástica herramienta cat2osm2. He revisado la lista de correo y he estado mirando en la de imports a ver si había alguna novedad, pero no he visto nada concluyente, así que os pregunto directamente ¿Hay 'luz verde' para poder empezar a subir los datos? :-D De momento lo que he hecho es ejecutar cat2osm2 (versión del 1 de febrero de 2013) con los archivos del catastro de Talavera y de Cazalegas. Para facilitar la revisión, he ejecutado de momento sólo con los datos urbanos y en el caso de estos dos municipios, sería cuestión de utilizar las masas y los elementos puntuales, las vías están mejor en OSM. Mi intención es empezar con Cazalegas, que es más pequeño, además ya he juntado todos los ficheros de masas y luego lo he dividido en tres áreas (el pueblo en sí, una zona de polígono industrial y otra zona de urbanizaciones) y los estoy revisando ya. Mi primera duda es relativo a estas 'divisiones', de cara al servidor ¿es mejor muchos envíos pequeños o uno con todos los cambios? Otra duda, entiendo que hay que subir los datos con el usuario definido del catastro, pero he visto que hay ciertos errores en los datos del catastro. En principio mi idea es subirlo tal cual y corregir luego para mantener la coherencia, es decir, no atribuir al catastro cosas que no están en sus datos (o están diferentes). En la wiki he visto las páginas de las provincias y demás y me apuntaré como 'responsable' de Toledo (si no hay nadie que quiera el cargo ;-)), ¿Quién tiene los datos de la cuenta de OSM del usuario catastro_toledo? También he visto que se indica un correo 'import_provincia', ¿es una lista o algo? Un saludo, -- Antonio Navarro mailto:anto...@hunos.net mailto:antonio.navarro...@gmail.com mailto:antonio.nava...@hispalinux.es ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org
Re: [Talk-ar] Límites
Acabo de ver que existe el key Disputed y por lo que se ve está usado en áreas de conflicto http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/disputed#map Tal vez este sea más apropiado para los límites marítimos en disputa con el Reino Unido. ___ Talk-ar mailing list Talk-ar@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ar
Re: [Talk-ar] Límites
Gonza, Parace los mas apropiado, te apoyo. Saludos. De: Gonzalo Gabriel Pérez zalit...@gmail.com Para: talk-ar@openstreetmap.org Enviado: Viernes, 22 de febrero, 2013 10:20 A.M. Asunto: Re: [Talk-ar] Límites Acabo de ver que existe el key Disputed y por lo que se ve está usado en áreas de conflicto http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/disputed#map Tal vez este sea más apropiado para los límites marítimos en disputa con el Reino Unido. ___ Talk-ar mailing list Talk-ar@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ar___ Talk-ar mailing list Talk-ar@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ar
Re: [Talk-ar] Límites
Concido! On 22/02/13 11:35, Sefer wrote: Gonza, Parace los mas apropiado, te apoyo. Saludos. *De:* Gonzalo Gabriel Pérez zalit...@gmail.com *Para:* talk-ar@openstreetmap.org *Enviado:* Viernes, 22 de febrero, 2013 10:20 A.M. *Asunto:* Re: [Talk-ar] Límites Acabo de ver que existe el key Disputed y por lo que se ve está usado en áreas de conflicto http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/disputed#map Tal vez este sea más apropiado para los límites marítimos en disputa con el Reino Unido. ___ Talk-ar mailing list Talk-ar@openstreetmap.org mailto:Talk-ar@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ar ___ Talk-ar mailing list Talk-ar@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ar ___ Talk-ar mailing list Talk-ar@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ar
[Talk-ar] Query Overpass para buscar una relación específica
Buenas gente!
Buscando relaciones rotas armé esta consulta, nada del otro mundo pero tal
vez le pueda servir a alguno de ustedes. La pegan en
http://overpass-turbo.eu/ y ejecutan (tarda dependiendo del tamaño de la
relación).
{{key=name}}
{{value= COMPLETAR CON NOMBRE }}
{{type=relation}}
osm-script output=json
query type={{type}}
has-kv k={{key}} v={{value}}/
bbox-query {{bbox}}/
/query
print mode=body/
recurse type=down/
print mode=skeleton/
/osm-script
Ejemplo (Pcia Chubut): http://goo.gl/X6TUc
Saludos!
___
Talk-ar mailing list
Talk-ar@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ar
Re: [Talk-ar] Límites
Debe ser una mala traducción. En todo caso sería claimed el tag. Pero el disputed lo veo más apropiado. Entre varias provincias también hay conflictos limítrofes Enviado desde Personal LG E612 Gonzalo Gabriel Pérez zalit...@gmail.com escrito: Acabo de ver que existe el key Disputed y por lo que se ve está usado en áreas de conflicto http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/disputed#map Tal vez este sea más apropiado para los límites marítimos en disputa con el Reino Unido. ___ Talk-ar mailing list Talk-ar@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ar ___ Talk-ar mailing list Talk-ar@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ar
Re: [Talk-lv] kreisais no laachpleesha uz natana barkana ielu
Nav atļauts kreisais. Tur dubult'līnija pa vidu. 2013/2/22 Rich ric...@nakts.net http://osrm.at/2rV man ir lielas aizdomas, ka taa nedriikstees gan... varbuut kaads tuvumaa esoshs var paarbaudiit ? -- Rich __**_ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-lvhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv -- Jānis ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv
Re: [Talk-lv] kreisais no laachpleesha uz natana barkana ielu
On 2013-02-22 21:00, Jānis Ročāns wrote: Nav atļauts kreisais. Tur dubult'līnija pa vidu. ziimes arii ir ? jo zinkaa... ziemaa... :D 2013/2/22 Rich ric...@nakts.net mailto:ric...@nakts.net http://osrm.at/2rV man ir lielas aizdomas, ka taa nedriikstees gan... varbuut kaads tuvumaa esoshs var paarbaudiit ? -- Rich -- Jānis -- Rich ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv
Re: [Talk-lv] kreisais no laachpleesha uz natana barkana ielu
Uzzīmēju.. Ja katrā virzienā ir vairāk par vienu joslu, tad pēc noklusējuma ir dubultā līnija, pat, ja apsnidzis. Savukārt, ja redzi, ka tur ir pārtraukta, kā Valdemāra ielā, kur katrā virzienā pa divām joslām (jo tur var salīst 2 blakus katrā virzienā) tur šo līniju drīks šķērsot, tomēr tur visā garumā aiz katra krustojuma ir zīme, kas aizliedz griezties pagalmos. On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 9:15 PM, Rich ric...@nakts.net wrote: On 2013-02-22 21:00, Jānis Ročāns wrote: Nav atļauts kreisais. Tur dubult'līnija pa vidu. ziimes arii ir ? jo zinkaa... ziemaa... :D 2013/2/22 Rich ric...@nakts.net mailto:ric...@nakts.net http://osrm.at/2rV man ir lielas aizdomas, ka taa nedriikstees gan... varbuut kaads tuvumaa esoshs var paarbaudiit ? -- Rich -- Jānis -- Rich -- Jānis ___ Talk-lv mailing list Talk-lv@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lv
Re: [Talk-cz] Trasy KČTpomocí JOSM
Dne 22.2.2013 12:32, Michal Tauchman napsal(a): Skvělý dokument, velice pomohl. Chtěl bych se zeptat, existuje i jiný způsob (zdroj) pro získání rozpisu turistických tras, než je ruční zjišťování? Zkoušel třeba někdo KČT, jestli by neposkytlo rozpis tras? Tusim ze na ne pred par lety sel nejaky dotaz a odpoved byla zaporna - s tim, ze prodejem tech map se zivej. Mozna nekdo upresni. Takze opravdu jediny zpusob jak to prenest do WMS je projit se ;D. Mozna od ty doby zmenili nazor, ale nesazel bych na to. ___ Talk-cz mailing list Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz ___ Talk-cz mailing list Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
Re: [Talk-cz] Trasy KČTpomocí JOSM
Dne 22.2.2013 12:51, jzvc napsal(a): Dne 22.2.2013 12:32, Michal Tauchman napsal(a): Skvělý dokument, velice pomohl. Chtěl bych se zeptat, existuje i jiný způsob (zdroj) pro získání rozpisu turistických tras, než je ruční zjišťování? Zkoušel třeba někdo KČT, jestli by neposkytlo rozpis tras? Tusim ze na ne pred par lety sel nejaky dotaz a odpoved byla zaporna - s tim, ze prodejem tech map se zivej. Mozna nekdo upresni. Takze opravdu jediny zpusob jak to prenest do WMS je projit se ;D. Mozna od ty doby zmenili nazor, ale nesazel bych na to. Koukam samej preklep, od OSM samo ... ___ Talk-cz mailing list Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz ___ Talk-cz mailing list Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz ___ Talk-cz mailing list Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
[Talk-cz] Dotaz na alej stromu
Ahoj, muzete mi prosim poradit, jak se ma spravne delat alej stromu? Prosel jsem a zakresil Alfredovskou alej http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=49.68752 http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=49.68752lon=13.02831zoom=17 lon=13.02831zoom=17 Je to polni cesta a okolo dve rady stromu, jak uz to byva. Tak jsem ji udelal jako highway=track a taky natural=tree_row Jenze JOSM se to nelibi a tahle kombinace mu prijde podezrela. Mam to ignorovat, nebo je zvykem kreslit aleje jinak? Treba delat dve cesty stromu okolo skutecne cesty? Diky za radu, Dalibor ___ Talk-cz mailing list Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
Re: [Talk-cz] Dotaz na alej stromu
Dne 22.2.2013 14:07, Dalibor Jelínek napsal(a): Ahoj, muzete mi prosim poradit, jak se ma spravne delat alej stromu? Prosel jsem a zakresil Alfredovskou alej http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=49.68752lon=13.02831zoom=17 Je to polni cesta a okolo dve rady stromu, jak uz to byva. Tak jsem ji udelal jako highway=track a taky natural=tree_row Jenze JOSM se to nelibi a tahle kombinace mu prijde podezrela. Mam to ignorovat, nebo je zvykem kreslit aleje jinak? Treba delat dve cesty stromu okolo skutecne cesty? Nemuzes mit tag pro cestu a tag pro alej, nejsou prece v jedny ose. Musis to udelat zvlast (navic je to nesmysl i z toho duvodu, ze bys zas musel resit, jak otagovat jednostranou alej ... vs zmena smeru cesty ...). Otazka je, zda to v tyhle podobe bude nekde vyrenderovany, vetsinou sem to videl v provedeni jednotlivych stromu. Pokud mrknes na taginfo, tak jestli nekeca, jedinej tag ktere s tim kdo kombinuje je source. Diky za radu, Dalibor ___ Talk-cz mailing list Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz ___ Talk-cz mailing list Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
Re: [Talk-cz] Dotaz na alej stromu
zdravím, muzete mi prosim poradit, jak se ma spravne delat alej stromu? tento problém jsem řešil tady: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=49.159029lon=15.800408zoom=18layers=M# (hm, jak se dělá odkaz na mapu se zapnutou datovou vrstvou?) a dospěl jsem vpodstatě k témuž, co říká Petr, neboli: Treba delat dve cesty stromu okolo skutecne cesty? ... ale bohužel by default se to nerenderuje Tak jsem ji udelal jako highway=track a taky natural=tree_row Jenze JOSM se to nelibi a tahle kombinace mu prijde podezrela. to se mu nelíbí zcela po právu - podíváme-li se na diskusi k návrhu: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tree_rows tak tam se přímo řeší, že kombinovat to přímo s cestou není šťastný nápad jinak odpovědi na otázky tohoto typu lze často najít zde: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Czech_Republic/OTM_značkový_klíč - díky všem, co (nejen tuto) stránku průběžně doplňují! K. ___ Talk-cz mailing list Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
Re: [Talk-cz] Dotaz na alej stromu
Ahoj, díky za odpovědi. Předělám to tedy na tři cesty. A jestli jsem to tedy správně pochopil,tak protože tady http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features není v políčku rendering u tree_row nic zobrazeno, tak to mapnik nebude vůbec vykreslovat? Takže, pokud bych to na tý mapě chtěl vidět, tak bych měl ještě na tu cestu nasázet jedntolivý nody a označit je jako natural=tree, aby je to tam nakresilo? A má smysl to dělat, když nevím přesně místa, kde ty stromy jsou? Podobnej problém řeším se zakreslením řopíků. Udělal jsem jich pár a označil je military=bunker a bunker_type=pillbox a mapnik je ignoruje. Zkusil jsem ještě přidat building=yes, jestli tam udělá alespoň tečku. Jaké je správné označení, aby se ten řopík na mapě objevil? Nebo musím někde zažádat, aby takovou věc začali vykreslovat? Díky, Dalibor Ahoj, podle wiki bych řekl, že tree_row je zamýšleno trochu obecněji... prostě řada stromů. Takže klasická alej by asi měla být značena třemi cestami: natural=tree_row highway=track natural=tree_row Zdraví, Petr Morávek aka Xificurk ___ Talk-cz mailing list Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Suppression GR dans OSM (encore) (était [forum-osm-fr] Réalisation de cartes Garmin...)
Le 22 février 2013 07:20, Marc Sibert m...@sibert.fr a écrit : Un moment faut oser poser la question qui fâche, ce sera salvateur. Faut que ça avance, b... La question a été transmise au président de la commission sentier de la fédération mais peut-être faudra-t-il en passer par un courrier officiel... Romain ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Suppression GR dans OSM (encore) (était [forum-osm-fr] Réalisation de cartes Garmin...)
2013/2/22 Hélène PETIT h...@free.fr: imposent que l'éditeur de l'infraction au droit d'auteur retire de son site l'oeuvre à la première sollicitation de l'ayant droit. Oui mais OSM a cette particularité de mettre à disposition des images (dump) dans la base de données (planet) et de conserver un historique des éditions, historiques complets qui sont aussi publiés à intervalles réguliers (2, 3 à 4 fois par an). Il est donc impératif que les infractions soient les moins nombreuses possibles et durent le moins longtemps possible. Sinon, l'alternative est que les administrateurs effectuent un travail de redaction en supprimant les dites infractions complètement, y compris dans l'historique et les rendre invisibles via l'API. Pieren ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Suppression GR dans OSM (encore) (était [forum-osm-fr] Réalisation de cartes Garmin...)
2013/2/22 Vincent Pottier vpott...@gmail.com: Et page 3 : Fédération délégataire... Je crois que la question est réglée. Je doute que la FFRP puisse s'opposer au fait que des citoyens s'associent spontanément et bénévolement à une mission ministérielle. Ca ne change rien. L'IGN a aussi une mission de service public. Ils ont même la responsabilité du Référentiel à Grande Echelle (RGE). Ca n'empêche pas que leurs données ne sont pas libres... Pieren ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Suppression GR dans OSM, oui, mais il faut autre chose
C'est intéressant comme point de vue et ça mérite une petite réflexion pour que cela soit applicable à l'international. J'ai quelques avis sur la question mais je ne fait pas de rando de façon convaincante et je serait hors sujet. Par contre si cette création de Tag est envisageable il ne faudrait pas que ce ne soit pas un moyen détourné pour tracer les circuits GR mais que cela vienne d'un réel besoin sur le terrain pas sous de faux prétexte. Un petit cahier des charges recensant les besoins, les restrictions et les limitations fonctionnelle serait intéressant. Ce mettre de le rôle du contre permet également de vérifier si l'idée est viable. Je vais suivre cette idée d'un œil curieux et attentif. Le 21 février 2013 20:21, Balaitous balait...@mailoo.org a écrit : Bonjour, La suppression de la mention GR semble inéluctable, alors je prend la question sous un autre angle. Quel est l’intérêt de la mention GR ? Pour moi, leur principal intérêt est de hiérarchiser les différents chemins en indiquant : celui-ci est le chemin le plus utilisé pour ce rendre du point A au point B, il est balisé, entretenu et ne débouche pas dans un cul de sac. Quand je planifie une rando avec une carte IGN, c'est de cette manière que je voie les GR, je me fixe d'abord un objectif, et je n'utilise jamais un GR au simple motif que c'est un GR. Pour les highway en général, on dispose d'une hiérarchisation (primary, secondary, ...) Pour les highway=track, on dispose également d'une hiérarchisation (tracktype=grade1-5). Par contre pour les highway=path, il n'y a rien de tout cela, et c'est le bazar pour choisir un itinéraire en se basant sur OSM. Dans le wiki, il y a: access=* surface=* : peu utilisé, et ne préjuge pas de l'état sac_scale=* : bien, mais peu utilisé, et trop orienté alpinisne pour traiter les cas généraux trail_visibility=* : se rapproche de la notion de balisage incline=* width=* On peut utiliser plusieurs tags tels que balisé=oui/non entretenu=oui/non fréquentation=faible/moyenne/forte Mais ce qui est complexe risque de ne pas être utilisé, alors le plus simple serait un tag pathtype=grade1-5 du genre grade1 : pour les 20% de chemins localement les plus utilisés et les mieux entretenus grade2 : ... Voir un tag hikingtype=grade1-5 applicable à tout élément highway=* De cette manière plus besoin de relation GR, et je ne doute pas qu'un rendu des chemins utilisant ces tags permettrait de mettre en évidence les GR (tout en restant dans la légalité), mais aussi de nouveau itinéraires potentiellement plus intéressant. A creuser, mais si la FFRP veut garder ses GR, c'est à nous d'inventer autre chose, et mieux. Cordialement Balaitous ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Suppression GR dans OSM (encore) (était [forum-osm-fr] Réalisation de cartes Garmin...)
Le 22/02/2013 09:51, Pieren a écrit : Ca ne change rien. L'IGN a aussi une mission de service public. Ils ont même la responsabilité du Référentiel à Grande Echelle (RGE). Ca n'empêche pas que leurs données ne sont pas libres... Rectification : libres, lire gratuites Ça n’empêche pas que les données soient payantes lorsque c'est l'IGN qui les fournit. Mais l'IGN ne peut s'opposer à ce que nous établissions notre propre carte. Mais il nous est permis de cartographier. Et ça n'est pas du plagia. Nulle part on pille la base de donnée de la FFRP. Nulle part on scanne les cartes de la FFRP (j'espère !). On collecte sur le terrain de l'information d'aménagement du territoire. Qui peut s'y opposer ? Nulle part, on contrefait un GR en établissant un chemin de randonnée et en lui donnant ce nom de GR. -- FrViPofm ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Suppression GR dans OSM (encore) (était [forum-osm-fr] Réalisation de cartes Garmin...)
Le 22/02/2013 07:20, Marc Sibert a écrit : Tout ça ne change rien au fait que si la Fédé est l'auteur des parcours (même si cette activité créatrice est réalisée dans le cadre de cette mission)... Les lignes de bus sont souvent proposées / imposées par l'administration et le transporteur (qui n'est pas créateur d'une œuvre de l'esprit) exploite. Il y a eu création d'une ligne de bus récemment dans mon coin. J'ai suivi un peu l'affaire. C'est la mairie qui commande l'étude. C'est la compagnie de transport qui la réalise, qui détermine par quelle rue passer, où poser les arrêts, avec quel type de véhicule. C'est la commune qui valide l'itinéraire, les arrêts, les horaires... C'est le maire qui pose les arrêtés afférents. C'est la compagnie qui exploite, qui tire les plans, les plannings de passage... La propriété intellectuelle s'applique-t-elle pour empêcher d'établir les plans de ces lignes ? Il y a eu création d'une voie rapide dans mon coin. Ce sont les collectivités locales qui commandent l'étude. C'est je ne sais quel cabinet qui la réalise. Ce sont les collectivités locales qui valident le tracé. Ce sont les présidents de conseils qui posent les arrêtés afférents. C'est je ne sais quelle entreprise qui réalise. À qui est la propriété intellectuelle ? A-t-on le droit de cartographier cette voie rapide ? Ce sont les collectivités territoriales qui établissent le PDIPR. Ce sont les comités de la FFRP qui proposent des itinéraires (existant ou non) Ce sont les collectivités qui valident. Ce sont les comités de la FFRP qui tracent le chemin, le balisent... Ce sont les collectivités qui entreprennent les démarchent auprès des mairies, des propriétaires de terrains privés. À qui est la propriété intellectuelle ? Concernant le nom : Ginko, le nom du réseau de transport urbain, est déposé par l'agglo de Besançon. A-t-on le droit de l'utiliser ? Autoroute du Soleil est un nom certainement déposé, probablement par la société APRR. A-t-on le droit de l'utiliser pour désigner l'A6 ou l'A7 ? GR est un nom déposé de la FFRP, mais qui entre dans une politique d'aménagement du territoire. A-t-on le droit de l'utiliser pour désigner un GR ? Si la FFRP reçoit délégation, si la fédération agit dans le cadre de l'aménagement du territoire, je doute fort que le droit puisse s’appliquer de la même façon que hors délégation, là où elle agit motu proprio. Et c'est la FFRP qui se réclame de cette délégation ! Et bien jouons son jeu ! Appuyons cette politique d'aménagement du territoire ! Cartographions les GR ! Ce n'est pas seulement auprès de la FFRP qu'il faut agir, il me semble, mais aussi auprès du ministère de tutelle en lui demandant des textes, des décrets, des décisions concernant cette politique d'aménagement du territoire... et des droits de les exploiter. -- FrViPofm ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Suppression GR dans OSM (encore) (était [forum-osm-fr] Réalisation de cartes Garmin...)
Le 21/02/2013 22:59, ades_...@orange.fr a écrit : La discussion à /SOTM-fr /devrait porter sur le fait de savoir s'il faut faire appel à un (ou des ) juriste(s), et pas forcement à des avocats (surtout pas à mon avis ;-) ). C'est quoi la différence entre un juriste et un avocat ? ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Suppression GR dans OSM (encore) (était [forum-osm-fr] Réalisation de cartes Garmin...)
On 22/02/2013 10:31, Hélène PETIT wrote: Le 21/02/2013 22:59, ades_...@orange.fr a écrit : La discussion à /SOTM-fr /devrait porter sur le fait de savoir s'il faut faire appel à un (ou des ) juriste(s), et pas forcement à des avocats (surtout pas à mon avis ;-) ). C'est quoi la différence entre un juriste et un avocat ? Le métier d'avocat est réglementé (barreau, Conseil de l'Ordre, condition d'accès à la profession etc.) - http://www.vie-publique.fr/decouverte-institutions/justice/personnel-judiciaire/auxiliaires/quel-est-statut-avocats.html La qualité de juriste s'acquière par la détention d'une licence en droit - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juriste ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Suppression GR dans OSM (encore) (était [forum-osm-fr] Réalisation de cartes Garmin...)
Le vendredi 22 février 2013 10:30:33 Vincent Pottier a écrit : […] Ce n'est pas seulement auprès de la FFRP qu'il faut agir, il me semble, mais aussi auprès du ministère de tutelle en lui demandant des textes, des décrets, des décisions concernant cette politique d'aménagement du territoire... et des droits de les exploiter. Merci Vincent pour cette contribution intéressante. Contacter le ministère peut sembler intéressant. Mais est-ce que le ministère des sports sera sensible aux enjeux d'aménagement du territoire … Ça vaut le coup de tenter. À rediscuter demain pour préparer un courrier ? -- Nicolas Dumoulin http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:NicolasDumoulin ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Suppression GR dans OSM (encore) (était [forum-osm-fr] Réalisation de cartes Garmin...)
vp == Vincent Pottier vpott...@gmail.com writes: vp Nulle part, on contrefait un GR en établissant un chemin de vp randonnée et en lui donnant ce nom de GR. Voila un point qui me semble très important et qui distingue cette application du droit d'auteur : - si je copie des données de l'IGN en décalquant depuis leur interface web, c'est de la contrefaçon (je reproduis une œuvre de même nature que celle de l'auteur original) - si je fabrique un univers parallèle reprenant la topographie de la France, et qui j'y installe des sentiers de randonnée aux mêmes endroits que dans notre univers, c'est de la contrefaçon (et si je les marque en rouge blanc avec GR, c'est de la contrefaçon de marque) - si je cartographie dans OSM des sentiers GR, je ne fais que noter des éléments factuels que j'ai observés sur le terrain, et ce n'est pas de la contrefaçon La jurisprudence FFRP concerne le premier type d'application, la création de documents de même type que les topoguides. -- Eric Marsden ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] SOTMFR / AG
Le ven. 22 f�vr. 2013 à 07:37 +0100, Christian Quest a ecrit : On pourra se répartir le dimanche entre l'amphi et les salles, donc il y aura de la place pour plusieurs contenus en // Donc en // de l'amphi on pour se faire nos brainstormings, tu peux rajouter ces sujets à discuter sur le wiki. Ils sont déjà sur le wiki, http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:SotmFR#Les_chantiers mais comme c'est la 2e fois que tu me fais la remarque, est-ce que tu les attends à un autre endroit ? -- ° /\Guillaume AllègreOpenStreetMap France /~~\/\ allegre.guilla...@free.fr Cartographie libre et collaborative / /~~\tél. 04.76.63.26.99 http://www.openstreetmap.fr ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Suppression GR dans OSM (encore) (était [forum-osm-fr] Réalisation de cartes Garmin...)
Le 22 février 2013 08:41, Hélène PETIT h...@free.fr a écrit : 1) D'après mon juriste, consulté hier soir, la : LOI n° 2004-575 du 21 juin 2004 pour la confiance dans l'économie numérique et sa jurisprudence en cours de consolidation, imposent que l'éditeur de l'infraction au droit d'auteur retire de son site l'oeuvre à la première sollicitation de l'ayant droit. Et ont-ils seulement fait cette sollicitation de retrait ? Pourquoi ce serait à nous de prendre l'initiative alors qu'il n'y a *strictement* aucun risque pour nous, car la loi prévoit que l'ayant-droit fasse *d'abord* sa demande avant même de pouvoir porter son litige en justice ? On a pourtant *déjà* les moyens de répondre à une telle demande. Pourquoi donc se montrer plus prudent que nécessaire,d'autant qu'on a les moyens de se défendre en montrant alors que le contenu de notre base n'est PAS une copie intégrale contenu toute la base des GRn ni permettant de les isoler spécifiquement ? (surtout si on n'a pas mentionné un tag spécifique pour les sentiers GR par rapport aux autres dont la FRPP n'est même pas la créatrice ni même la délégataire, étant donné que nos contributeurs viennent du monde entier et peuvent aveoir utilisé aussi d'autres critères pour l'insertion, par exemple le classement par une autre association européenne, ou même un programme spécial de protection ou sauvegarde de l'Union européenne, de l'Unesco, ou d'une fédération sportive internationale, ou d'une asso environnementale) Je ne vois pas à quel titre la FFRP doit automatiquement devenir propriétaire de tous les chemins de randonnée possibles, *même* si elle a reçu une délégation ministérielle concernant les chemins protégés par l'Etat français (cette délégation ne concerne pas la propriété des chemins créés par la FRPP, mais bien les chemins historiques concernant leur entretien et balisage, et pour agir comme intermédiaire avec les autres assos concernées par ces chemins, la FRPP devenant rapporteur de ces efforts auprès de l'Etat dans le cadre de cette mission, sans pour autant se prévaloir d'en être propriétaire). Il me semble même que cette délégation publique lui impose de ne PAS contrecarrer les efforts citoyens de publicité de ces chemins mais qu'au contraire elle devrait soutenir ces efforts externes. Ce qu'on fait dans OSM est pour tout le monde (oui même pour les utilisations commerciales mais pas seulement, car on le fait aussi pour les citoyens : ce n'était pas le cas de l'éditeur de guides condamné qui justement imposait des limites de reproduction par son copyright et par son prix de vente ; OSM n'a rien de comparable avec cet éditeur de guides, et ce qu'il fait est également à la disposition de la FRPP qui peut utiliser OSM lui aussi ; on est dans le cadre d'une licence ouverte, non exclusive, ce qui n'était pas le cas de l'éditeur de guides qui a été condamné). Bref je pense sincèrement que tout ce débat ne sert à rien : on peut agir avec un excès de prudence là où même la loi nous protège bien contre une condamnation puisque les ayant-droits sont obligés de faire une demande de justification de leur droit et auront alors la charge d'apporter la preuve d'un abus éventuel (qui pour l'instant n'est pas prouvé du tout puisque l'existence de ces droits n'est même pas prouvée). Continuez sur ce terrain, et en fin de compte plus personne ne pourra plus RIEN mettre du tout dans OSM (que ce soit des chemins de randonnée ou pas) car on trouvera toujours sans peine un domaine où la question de ce qui est une propriété ou pas n'est même pas établie, étant donné que dans la plupart des cas personne ne s'est prévalu de ces droits (à charge pour lui d'aller défendre ce droit en justice pour faire valoir qu'il existe, ou de faire enregistrer *officiellement* son droit dans un organisme officiel reconnu (brevets, marques, registres du commerce, etc...). La bonne attitude à avoir ici c'est plutôt de s'inspirer par exemple de l'UDRP (Universal Dispute Resoution Policy) en vigueur sur Internet pour les noms de domaines : une procédure de réglement amiable est disponible, chacun peut alors faire valoir ses arguments mais cela ne va pas automatiquement en justice (et la justice quand elle est saisie, c'est uniquement quand le litige est devenu inconciliable et uniquement après avoir fait la preuve d'avoir utilisé cette procédure de réglement amiable : avant d'aller en justice, il appartient donc à l'ayant-droit de se faire connaitre et avancer *formellement* ses revendications. Mais tant la la FFRP préfère garder le silence, qui ne dit mot consent (et ensuite elle perdra le droit de le faire au bout de quelques années, de la même façon qu'un propriétaire de terrain perd son droit exclusif s'il a laissé un occupant utiliser son terrain sans rien faire, ou qu'un héritier perd ses droits s'il n'a pas fait les démarches pour revendiquer sa part avant quelques années, ou qu'un occupant du domaine public obtient la pleine propriété si l'Etat n'a pas agit à temps pour
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Suppression GR dans OSM (encore) (était [forum-osm-fr] Réalisation de cartes Garmin...)
terme générique et terme spécifique + le prix. Un prof de fac doit coutera sans doute moins cher qu'un avocat . Le 22 févr. 2013 à 10:31, Hélène PETIT a écrit : Le 21/02/2013 22:59, ades_...@orange.fr a écrit : La discussion à /SOTM-fr /devrait porter sur le fait de savoir s'il faut faire appel à un (ou des ) juriste(s), et pas forcement à des avocats (surtout pas à mon avis ;-) ). C'est quoi la différence entre un juriste et un avocat ? ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Suppression GR dans OSM (encore) (était [forum-osm-fr] Réalisation de cartes Garmin...)
Le 22/02/2013 11:04, Nicolas Dumoulin a écrit : Le vendredi 22 février 2013 10:30:33 Vincent Pottier a écrit : […] Ce n'est pas seulement auprès de la FFRP qu'il faut agir, il me semble, mais aussi auprès du ministère de tutelle en lui demandant des textes, des décrets, des décisions concernant cette politique d'aménagement du territoire... et des droits de les exploiter. Merci Vincent pour cette contribution intéressante. Contacter le ministère peut sembler intéressant. Mais est-ce que le ministère des sports sera sensible aux enjeux d'aménagement du territoire … Ça vaut le coup de tenter. À rediscuter demain pour préparer un courrier ? Jeunesse et sport, ils sont sensibles au discours citoyen dans les projets. Je voyais ça quand j'étais directeur de CLSH. Or c'est bien en citoyens qu'on veut agir pour, à travers la cartographie des GR, promouvoir le développement et la pratique de la randonnée, ne serait-ce que pour notre propre usage. -- FrViPofm ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Suppression GR dans OSM (encore) (était [forum-osm-fr] Réalisation de cartes Garmin...)
Par exemple la visibilité depuis l'étranger : OSM a vraiment une valeur ajoutée, par rapport à tout ce que produit la FFRP qui est très orienté franco-français Pourtant ce ne sont pas les randonneurs étrangers qui manquent. OSM peut être là pour leur faire découvrir les possibilités de parcours (en ligne par ex.), sans pour autant nuire aux ventes de topo guides FFRP par la suite, bien au contraire Le 22 février 2013 11:48, Vincent Pottier vpott...@gmail.com a écrit : Le 22/02/2013 11:04, Nicolas Dumoulin a écrit : Le vendredi 22 février 2013 10:30:33 Vincent Pottier a écrit : […] Ce n'est pas seulement auprès de la FFRP qu'il faut agir, il me semble, mais aussi auprès du ministère de tutelle en lui demandant des textes, des décrets, des décisions concernant cette politique d'aménagement du territoire... et des droits de les exploiter. Merci Vincent pour cette contribution intéressante. Contacter le ministère peut sembler intéressant. Mais est-ce que le ministère des sports sera sensible aux enjeux d'aménagement du territoire … Ça vaut le coup de tenter. À rediscuter demain pour préparer un courrier ? Jeunesse et sport, ils sont sensibles au discours citoyen dans les projets. Je voyais ça quand j'étais directeur de CLSH. Or c'est bien en citoyens qu'on veut agir pour, à travers la cartographie des GR, promouvoir le développement et la pratique de la randonnée, ne serait-ce que pour notre propre usage. -- FrViPofm __**_ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-frhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr -- ab_fab http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Ab_fab Il n'y a pas de pas perdus, Nadja ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Suppression GR dans OSM (encore) (était [forum-osm-fr] Réalisation de cartes Garmin...)
Le 22/02/2013 11:35, ades_...@orange.fr a écrit : terme générique et terme spécifique + le prix. Un prof de fac doit coutera sans doute moins cher qu'un avocat . Nan. J'ai fais rédiger à 5 reprises des clauses de contrat par des avocats d'affaire. Il engage son nom sur la légalité des clauses, et dans les affaires qui ont concerné des assos, pour moins de 100€ (un peu plus pour les affaires privées). De toutes façons, il faut demander un devis *avant*, n'est-ce pas ? ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
[OSM-talk-fr] Étiqueter un « cityparc »
Bonjour, Comment étiqueter un « cityparc », un terrain multisport avec des barrières et un revêtement souple. Ça ressemble à ça : http://www.mairie-villetaneuse.fr/1-28378-Actualite.php?id_actualite=1560 Je n'ai rien trouvé. Et puis, cette appellation « cityparc » ne me paraît pas très répandu … Sinon, je mets leisure=pitch + sport=soccer;basketball + surface=tartan ? Merci -- Nicolas Dumoulin http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:NicolasDumoulin ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Étiqueter un « cityparc »
Le 22 février 2013 12:19, Nicolas Dumoulin nicolas_openstreetmap@dumoulin63.net a écrit : Bonjour, Comment étiqueter un « cityparc », un terrain multisport avec des barrières et un revêtement souple. Ça ressemble à ça : http://www.mairie-villetaneuse.fr/1-28378-Actualite.php?id_actualite=1560 Je n'ai rien trouvé. Et puis, cette appellation « cityparc » ne me paraît pas très répandu … Sinon, je mets leisure=pitch + sport=soccer;basketball + surface=tartan ? Chez moi c'est un city stade: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=48.672231221717mlon=5.8859254250707zoom=18 et j'ai mis sport=multi Romain ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
