Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

I wrote: No one will tax you, or feel jealous of your sold-gold house. > I meant "solid-gold house." I doubt gold is strong enough for this purpose. I suppose it might be a steel structure with a thick layer of gold in the living spaces and outdoor walls. I doubt anyone would want to live in such

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

James Bowery wrote: > This would undo one, perhaps the, primary benefit of Unconditional BI: > > Disintermediation of the government's welfare state aparatus. > This plan will gradually make the welfare state go away, along with capitalism. > In order to more completely disintermediate the g

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

Yes, but it isn't just automation. It is efficiency of human labour. Of course currently we have another source of robots. People in 3rd world countries being treated and paid like $#!7. On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 8:24 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > > John Berry wrote: > > >> Why would it incenti

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 1:24 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > > John Berry wrote: > > >> Why would it incentivise crime?? It would incentivise work. >>> >> >> This is all predicated on there not being enough jobs. >> So some people are going to have to make do with just the insufficient >> universal inc

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

John Berry wrote: > Why would it incentivise crime?? It would incentivise work. >> > > This is all predicated on there not being enough jobs. > So some people are going to have to make do with just the insufficient > universal income. > I think your definition of a "job" is oversimplified. A jo

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

> > People aren't getting enough to really live on unless they live very hard, >> there are fewer jobs so crime is very tempting . . . >> > > Why would it incentivise crime?? It would incentivise work. > This is all predicated on there not being enough jobs. So some people are going to have to mak

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

I wrote: > You do not have to eliminate it. What you do is subtract Social Security > payments from the "free cash" universal payment. . . . > Social Security is not "means tested." You get it whether you are rich or poor. There will still be some means-tested benefits when the system begins, su

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

John Berry wrote: Jed, your system would seriously incentivise crime. > > People aren't getting enough to really live on unless they live very hard, > there are fewer jobs so crime is very tempting . . . > Why would it incentivise crime?? It would incentivise work. It would give poor people the

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

Eric Walker wrote: > That does not include Social Security, $0.7 T. The plans I have seen >> eliminate Social Security and also welfare. >> > > From a tactical perspective, any plan in the US that eliminates Social > Security will be doomed from the start. > You do not have to eliminate it. Wha

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 11:50 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: That does not include Social Security, $0.7 T. The plans I have seen > eliminate Social Security and also welfare. > >From a tactical perspective, any plan in the US that eliminates Social Security will be doomed from the start. There is a g

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

Jed, your system would seriously incentivise crime. People aren't getting enough to really live on unless they live very hard, there are fewer jobs so crime is very tempting, you get the extra money/stuff you need and if you get caught you get to save the money you couldn't live on anyway so that

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

David L. Babcock wrote: What average family? Our household (2 people) gets $3000/month and we are > on the edge of disaster! > The plans we are discussing are not intended to provide enough for a person to live on without any other source of income. Not in the initial phase in the present day.

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

What average family? Our household (2 people) gets $3000/month and we are on the edge of disaster! Ol" Bab On 12/15/2014 1:50 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: Ken Deboer mailto:barlaz...@gmail.com>> wrote: My calculations (as an amateur) are based on about $2000/month per household. Assuming

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

David Roberson wrote: The thought of giving money to prisoners brings up the discussion of crime > itself. Why would someone go to the trouble of stealing from others if > anything they need can be obtained for virtually nothing? I predict there will be no more crimes such as theft of material

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

market and other investments seeking decent returns. Something unexpected will surly crop up once the controls are lifted. Dave -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell To: vortex-l Sent: Mon, Dec 15, 2014 5:57 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash? John Berry

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

Pay money to ex-prisoners, yes, definitely a good idea. Pay money to people who have already got food, clothes, housing because they are currently in prison??? It only makes sense if they are charged for those things while away. While the cost of prison per inmate I am pretty sure runs higher tha

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

John Berry wrote: Give money to people in prison??? > > Why? They can't really spend it, unless they are then charged for their > accommodation. > They would be charged. They would have to pay taxes if their income is high enough. People in prison often have sources of income. I say, no means t

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

Give money to people in prison??? Why? They can't really spend it, unless they are then charged for their accommodation. Instead it would just build up. Heck, sounds like a saving scheme, just commit a crime to get into a white collar prison and when you get out you have a nice nest egg built up

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

Here is another article about this subject: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/16/upshot/as-robots-grow-smarter-american-workers-struggle-to-keep-up.html

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

David Roberson wrote: Of course as soon as money is freely handed out the games will begin. If > it is distributed per household then a lot of current households will break > up to increase the allotment. Good point. It should be per capita. > Is it fair to take away the social security p

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

: Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash? Ken Deboer wrote: My calculations (as an amateur) are based on about $2000/month per household. Assuming 90 percent of 115 million US households would need it, that would amount to roughly $2.5 trillion needed annually. At present, direct

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

Ken Deboer wrote: > My calculations (as an amateur) are based on about $2000/month per > household. Assuming 90 percent of 115 million US households would need it, > that would amount to roughly $2.5 trillion needed annually. At present, > direct Government outlay for basic 'welfare' programs is

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

Dave, This is an important thread and one I touch on in a book I am finishing up, called "Mind from Matter". I think a basic income is inevitable and could be relatively painless, as I think you have overestimated the outlay required and underestimated the return. My calculations (as an amateur)

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

I did not mean to play the scare card. In fact anybody, no matter their age or health, could wake one morning and find themselves in need of long term care. Everyone deserves to live, grow old, and die in dignity. Since careworkers play a huge role in making that possible it is important that their

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

On Sat, Dec 13, 2014 at 6:28 PM, Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson < orionwo...@charter.net> wrote: > > Harry, > > > > The more I think about it, I don't think you were trying to play a scare > card. This is just an issue that concerns me deeply. As I get older I > suspect it will concern me eve

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

Dave, Newsweek, a mainstream magazine, just published an article about basic income. It provides some other numbers to mull over. http://www.newsweek.com/how-fix-poverty-write-every-family-basic-income-check-291583 Harry On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 11:09 PM, David Roberson wrote: > > Did you stop

RE: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

Harry, The more I think about it, I don't think you were trying to play a scare card. This is just an issue that concerns me deeply. As I get older I suspect it will concern me even more. Hopefully I will be in a position do to something about it on my own terms. Depending on my circumst

RE: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

>From Harry, > ​I am glad you enjoyed it and that you are looking forward to your > retirement. Yes, I am. It's likely that I'll be busier than when I was working. > On a more somber note this issue could impact you personally should you > become disabled as you age. Given current in

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 10:16 PM, Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson < orionwo...@charter.net> wrote: > > https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-vnB16E36EQ > > > > Thanks Harry. This was fascinating to watch and very informative too. They > probably are on to something. A paradigm shift, I'd say. I hope t

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

​I wrote: > > Most people know how to drink water without choking so there is no need to > be alert and careful in that case. But in other cases where someone has a > swallowing disorder you need to be alert and careful. > > Harry > Technically I should have said "without aspirating" instead of

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 3:23 PM, John Berry wrote: > > Bob, unlike Jed I do think your protectionist laws are plausible. > > And while at first blush I considered them very promising, I then saw a > bunch of problems, and the largest problem as I see it is in a loss of > productivity. > > Ultimate

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 2:17 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > > H Veeder wrote: > > >> Nothing is inherently safe. >> Everything is potentially dangerous. >> Drinking water is toxic when too much is consumed. There is no such thing >> as "safe sex". >> Explosives are safe when used correctly and appropr

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

John Berry wrote: What he [Clarke] did not envision is that electronic books are music are > often freely available either by or inspite of the publishers wishes. > He did, actually. Maybe not in "Profiles" but he saw that coming long before most people did. As an author himself, he was not hap

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

What he did not envision is that electronic books are music are often freely available either by or inspite of the publishers wishes. This is not a bad thing though, music created by those who want to create great music has always sounded better than commercially focused efforts. And the same goe

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

Jed says: *Probably that kind of conspicuous consumption will lose its charm. When anyone can do such things, most people will not bother. I do not see anything inherently pleasurable about living in a house with dozens of empty rooms.* I quite agree. I think currently it is the meaning those thin

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

John Berry wrote: I just had another idea. > > Self sufficiency. > > The idea is that with sufficient advances in 3D printers and robots. > And growing your own food in a personal multi level garden... > Let me again point out that Arthur Clarke described this and all of the other ideas in this

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

> lose their jobs. >> >> I think it is clear from our previous discussion that you and I envision >> the future differently, and this does not surprise me, since predicting the >> future is not mundane. I would guess we might agree on this point. >> >> Bob >

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

John Berry wrote: > 3: Free stuff, have the staples of life given freely, though not > unlimitedly. > It is easier and more efficient to hand out money. People who run soup kitchens and disaster relief say so. Given a choice between donations of canned goods from families and donations of cash

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

guess we might agree on this point. > > Bob > > - Original Message - > *From:* Jed Rothwell > *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com > *Sent:* Friday, December 12, 2014 11:17 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash? > > H Veeder wrote: > > > >&

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

Ok, let's explore options... 1: Hand out free money, the devil is in the details it seems, but done right this is promising. 2: Get paid for work a robot does, in the end this is similar as getting money for free, except it requires too much initiative, outlay and luck. You need your robot to be

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

Subject: Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash? H Veeder wrote: Nothing is inherently safe. Everything is potentially dangerous. Drinking water is toxic when too much is consumed. There is no such thing as "safe sex". Explosives are safe when used cor

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

I wrote: > That would be a fascist solution to a problem that easily be solved by > capitalistic methods. > Okay not exactly capitalistic by present-day standards. I mean handing out money to everyone. Capitalism and socialism are both economic systems predicated on the exchange of human labor f

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

H Veeder wrote: > Nothing is inherently safe. > Everything is potentially dangerous. > Drinking water is toxic when too much is consumed. There is no such thing > as "safe sex". > Explosives are safe when used correctly and appropriately. > But some things are a lot safer than others. Water is

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

Bob Cook wrote: > Your argument about the washing machines probably allowed people to go to > work, not lose their jobs. > Many housemaids made a living doing laundry and other housework in the 19th century. There were so many that magazines at the time announced a manpower (womanpower) crisis,

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

Nothing is inherently safe. Everything is potentially dangerous. Drinking water is toxic when too much is consumed. There is no such thing as "safe sex". Explosives are safe when used correctly and appropriately. One way to minimize the dangers is to enact laws that can be used to regulate behaviou

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

e - From: Jed Rothwell To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, December 12, 2014 6:54 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash? Bob Cook wrote: Your last comment: "I do not think so. I do not know of any inherently safe products that regulated solel

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

Bob Cook wrote: > Your last comment: "I do not think so. I do not know of any > inherently safe products that regulated solely for the good of society. " > > > Making beer and wine is limited and distilling ethanol is prohibited > without a license. (Ethanol, however, is conside

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

14 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash? Bob Cook wrote: I would note that those kind of people have not gotten around the Atomic Energy Act in this country very well. That is because radioactive material is difficult and expensive to produce and easy to detect,

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

majority. >> This is democracy. Individuals have only certain personal rights as >> provided in constitutions. Corporations and non-natural entities are >> chartered with certain purposes established by governments. These can be >> changed or taken back by the governm

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

ment (the people) to do so. > > Bob > > - Original Message ----- > *From:* Jed Rothwell > *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com > *Sent:* Thursday, December 11, 2014 2:58 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash? > > Bob Cook wrote: > > A simple law wi

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

are >> chartered with certain purposes established by governments. These can be >> changed or taken back by the government that approved the various purposes, >> if it is in the interest of the government (the people) to do so. >> >> Bob >> >> - Original Mes

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

- Original Message ----- > *From:* Jed Rothwell > *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com > *Sent:* Thursday, December 11, 2014 2:58 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash? > > Bob Cook wrote: > > A simple law will fix the problem of robots replacing people. Th

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

Bob Cook wrote: > I would note that those kind of people have not gotten around the Atomic > Energy Act in this country very well. > That is because radioactive material is difficult and expensive to produce and easy to detect, and it is produced in only a few facilities. Robots and computers

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

is in the interest of the government (the people) to do so. Bob - Original Message - From: Jed Rothwell To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 2:58 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash? Bob Cook wrote: A simple law will fix t

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

Bob Cook wrote: A simple law will fix the problem of robots replacing people. The main > features of such a law follow: > > Only real persons shall be allowed to own a robot free of tax. > Additional robots can be owned by any given biological person, but at an > increasing tax as deemed

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

a.ashfield wrote: > ref > http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/12/10/mfmps-project-dog-bone-thread-update-1-first-test-on-dummy-core/ > You mean: http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/12/11/when-robots-replace-human-workers-harvard-business-review/ Regarding the "dog bone test," note that it is incandes

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

d on the > market in this country. (This could act to improve government income.) > > Only the government will be able to export robots. > > Bob > > - Original Message ----- > *From:* a.ashfield > *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com > *Sent:* Thursday, December

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

, December 11, 2014 12:04 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash? When Robots Replace Human Workers (Harvard Business Review) Progress in information storage and processing have made possible the creation intelligent machines at amazing speed that will soon dominate the

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

When Robots Replace Human Workers (Harvard Business Review) Progress in information storage and processing have made possible the creation intelligent machines at amazing speed that will soon dominate the world economy and devalue human labor:"This is why we will soon be looking at hordes

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

Wikipedia has some references and data. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income Well known people who support basic income. http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/swiss-consider-welfare-overhaul-guaranteed-minimum-income/ Fairly recent article makes no mention of the date for the Swiss vote and I ca

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

James Bowery wrote: The proposal > > from the conservative thinktank American Enterprise Institute's scholar > Charles Murray is worded as follows: > > Henceforth, federal, state, and local governments shall make no la

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

Sometimes you guys are discussing the details instead of the concept. Believe me although I never been advising the government. Yes, I did talk to a prominent world politician and found him just a a bunch of well formulted sentences. I agree with David. The problem is that we allow the private and

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

Adrian, I am using gmail which threads emails and has the newest at the bottom which is not yours. You need to either look into how Thunderbird arranges things, or switch to something else. Personally I would never go back to thunderbird after getting used to gmail. What you see is not what othe

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 9:08 AM, David Roberson wrote: I do not see the need for panic during this period. It will not likely > require rapid change to our current system to prevent major disruptions to > our way of life. This is the face of technological change: http://www.nytimes.com/intera

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

benefits, and all others? How would they handle medical expenses? Dave -Original Message- From: James Bowery To: vortex-l Sent: Wed, Dec 10, 2014 11:25 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash? The proposal from the conservative thinktank American Enterprise

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

son > To: vortex-l > Sent: Wed, Dec 10, 2014 10:07 pm > Subject: RE: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash? > > Jed, > > You suggested our country should pay our citizens somewhere in the > neighborhood $10,000. The idea would be that the amount, being modest would >

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

- Steven Vincent Johnson To: vortex-l Sent: Wed, Dec 10, 2014 10:07 pm Subject: RE: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash? Jed, Yousuggested our country should pay our citizens somewhere in the neighborhood$10,000. The idea would be that the amount, being modest would only be enoughto pay

RE: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

Jed, You suggested our country should pay our citizens somewhere in the neighborhood $10,000. The idea would be that the amount, being modest would only be enough to pay for the bare necessities - but not enough to actually live on unless groups got together and "roomed" together in a dwelli

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

John Berry, As you can see, my comment has again migrated to the bottom of the list of comments. I'm using Thunderbird. Nothing special. I copy and paste the subject from the comment to which I'm replying. Adrian Ashfield

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

Adrian, the bottom of what? This will depend on your email client surely, and you have not mentioned what client you are using. On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 12:48 PM, a.ashfield wrote: > Jed, > I couldn't agree with you more. > LENR will provide the means for universal wealth if we are not too > po

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

Jed, I couldn't agree with you more. LENR will provide the means for universal wealth if we are not too politically stupid to blow it. The economic/political change will prove harder than full automation I suspect. Too many greedy cooks. Any idea why my posts won't stay properly in line but m

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

John Berry wrote: The reason I suggested crypto, likely much as the guy in the video did is > because of the ability to do this without the government being onboard. > I do not think this could be done without the government and industry being on board. Also both political parties. That is anoth

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

John Berry wrote: There are huge advantages of giving people enough to live on, and enough to > better themselves. > > I don't know what can be done about the unpleasant jobs not enough will > want to do, maybe a small increase in pay could be enough. > A small increase would not work if everyon

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

The reason I suggested crypto, likely much as the guy in the video did is because of the ability to do this without the government being onboard. Of course I suppose it would still be possible to do this with a cash currency, but that would be ignoring the obvious advantages that exist with modern

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

There are huge advantages of giving people enough to live on, and enough to better themselves. I don't know what can be done about the unpleasant jobs not enough will want to do, maybe a small increase in pay could be enough. Anyway Burger joints and cleaning can increasingly be automated today, y

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

John Berry wrote: There is enough for everyone, but there is not YET enough for everyone to > do nothing and have plenty. > Yes, but there will be soon. In a few generations there will be. We are in a transition. We need to gradually reinvent society and economics to accommodate unlimited wealth

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson wrote: > If I had a guaranteed income I would have no interest spending all my > "free" time day sitting on my fat ass doing nothing more than watching > football or porn on my monitor. Nor would I be interested in consuming > booze or sampling prostitutes. I w

RE: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 3:31 PM To: vortex-l Subject: Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash? Actually, I know that you were no where to be found when I was testifying before Congress on the Launch Services Purchase Act of 1990 that was the seminal move toward launch

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

imited growth. Everyone thinks that >>> will create inflation since more money chasing a fixed number of goods just >>> causes the price to go up. That is old thinking and completely wrong in >>> the world without limits. Today more money just causes the pie to expand. >>>

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Lennart Thornros wrote: > James, the solar system has to be recognized for many reasons and I have > heard nobody trying to exclude that. > You misunderstand what I mean by "prerequisite". When there is a frontier to be settled, the political economics of immigr

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

James Bowery wrote: Physical reality provides, to first order, a 2 dimensional biosphere of > limited surface area. The 3 dimensional solar system provides a first > order unlimited "pie" but to second order, even it is limited. > > Given the actual behavior of governments and corporations withi

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

use to allocate the > money to people when fewer and fewer contribute anything to the pie’s > growth? > > > > It is antiquated thinking and fear which is responsible for a lack of > progress today. > > > > Ransom > > > > *From:* Lennart Thornros [mailto:lenn..

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

fewer and fewer contribute anything to the pie’s >> growth? >> >> >> >> It is antiquated thinking and fear which is responsible for a lack of >> progress today. >> >> >> >> Ransom >> >> >> >> *From:* Lennart Thor

RE: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

, 2014 1:31 PM To: vortex-l Subject: Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash? Physical reality provides, to first order, a 2 dimensional biosphere of limited surface area. The 3 dimensional solar system provides a first order unlimited "pie" but to second order, even it is limited.

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

ress today. > > > > Ransom > > > > *From:* Lennart Thornros [mailto:lenn...@thornros.com] > *Sent:* Wednesday, December 10, 2014 11:45 AM > > *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com > *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash? > > > > Yes, James the

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

e’s > growth? > > > > It is antiquated thinking and fear which is responsible for a lack of > progress today. > > > > Ransom > > > > *From:* Lennart Thornros [mailto:lenn...@thornros.com] > *Sent:* Wednesday, December 10, 2014 11:45 AM > > *To:* vortex-

RE: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash? Yes, James there are problems ahead. However I think we can handle artificial intelligence as well. Not without sacrifice and a time of accommodation paired with fear. You know how automobiles in England a little over 100 years ago had to have a person

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

gt; > > -----Original Message- > From: Chris Zell > To: vortex-l > Sent: Wed, Dec 10, 2014 11:01 am > Subject: RE: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash? > > In 2012, 30% of the US lived from paycheck to paycheck. Today, it is 40%. > The > percentage of people on fo

RE: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

chrisz...@wetmtv.com>> To: vortex-l mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>> Sent: Wed, Dec 10, 2014 11:01 am Subject: RE: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash? In 2012, 30% of the US lived from paycheck to paycheck. Today, it is 40%. The percentage of people on food stamps has never been

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

, Dec 10, 2014 11:01 am Subject: RE: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash? In 2012, 30% of the US lived from paycheck to paycheck. Today, it is 40%. The percentage of people on food stamps has never been higher. Participation in labor markets is at a 36 year low. Job retaining usually

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

The "AI Menace", which is an increasingly popular topic (see Elon Musk and Stephen Hawking

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

"I don't like redistribution of income but there won't be any alternative once jobs disappear." You don't know that. People may find unique ways to solve their problems. "Pretending that things will just muddle along somehow could be dangerous as the US has drifted towards becoming a police st

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

I have a strange idea from current ambiance and connection with indonesia... Basic income could be connected to agrarian reform. Usually agrarian refor don't give subsidies, but simply redistribute assets to small actors, the farmers, who can exploit them. if robots take all our manual jobs, exce

RE: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

rs and economic upheaval that is unprepared for might make things worse. -Original Message- From: Craig Haynie [mailto:cchayniepub...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 12:34 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash? You have a prediction tha

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

Craig, You maybe right but I doubt it. I conclude that AI, even before it is truly AI, is a game changer and will lead to the end of our existing economic world. I don't know how long it will take. Probably other solutions like a shorter work week will be tried first and we don't even know a

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

Yes, Craig I agree with that the unemployment scare has been their through every step of the way. However, it has been right from the point of view that the old job disappeared and new more interesting jobs was created. I do not agree with that you compare this to any unrealized science problem. N

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

Craig I actually agree that their won't be a permanent high rate of unemployment. However, the number of full time jobs with benefits has been declining and continues to decline. Young adults entering the job market today do not have the same opportunities for full time employment as their parents

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

We have free "cash" in the US already, it's called foodstamps + Obamacare We are incrementally getting there. It'll likely be some time before everyone just gets a blank check. Connecting Automation and entitlements is a very good idea, however. On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 10:09 AM, H Veeder wrote:

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

You have a prediction that there will be a high rate of unemployment, but these sorts of predictions started in the late 1800s with the expansion of industry. Now you're proposing a solution for this prediction, and believe that any opposition to this solution "does not make sense." But you wou

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

Actually the Swiss have not voted on it yet. A minimum of hundred thousand signatures were needed to get it as a question on a future referendum. That was achieved earlier this year. The referendum is suppose to be in 2016 so the campaign is just beginning, but a panel associated with referendum q

  1   2   >