RE: Mashriqu'l-Adkhar in Marv
Dear David, You will find photographs of the Mashriqu'l-Adkhar in Turkistan here: http://www.bahai-biblio.org/photo-temple.htm Temple in Ichqabad (Turkistan) First Baha'i temple in Turkistan which was confiscated by the communists and later destroyed by an earthquake. Lovingly, Sandra The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
...a humiliating torment
GS: I think I'd heard there was a geometrically increasing fine for adultery but I don't think I'd heard of the public humiliation of adulterers. SM: I'm not sure what Ron is referring to here either. SC: Not *public* but, ...in the world to come... God hath imposed a fine on every adulterer and adulteress, to be paid to the House of Justice: nine mithqals of gold, to be doubled if they should repeat the offence. Such is the penalty which He Who is the Lord of Names hath assigned them in this world; *and in the world to come He hath ordained for them a humiliating torment.* Should anyone be afflicted by a sin, it behoveth him to repent thereof and return unto his Lord. He, verily, granteth forgiveness unto whomsoever He willeth, and none may question that which it pleaseth Him to ordain. He is, in truth, the Ever-Forgiving, the Almighty, the All-Praised. 38 (Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 37) The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: What is the bitter book?
Susan,
Thank you! Profound insight reflected in his
poetry.
Lovingly, Sandra
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RE: Adoption: Baha'i Children
Thank you, Susan and Congratulations! with heart-felt admiration. Lucky little boy! Lucky family! Actually I'm inquiring about matching Baha'is seeking to adopt and available children within the Faith. I myself was adopted at 3 months... Records sealed. Because the Faith supports Open adoption it would be an ideal service to have within the Faith. I belieive the Catholic Church does something similar. Lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Adoption: Baha'i Children
Is anyone on the list aware of a Baha'i Children Adoption Service/Organization - perhaps in the U.S.? Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
re: puzzled by Jim,
Dear Jim, Being a bit confused about your own position with regard to this statement: What I am suggesting is that we each have a responsibility to promote the best interests of the peoples and kindreds of the earth, to the best of our knowledge, understanding, and capacity, even if it means promoting ideas that seem to us to contradict what the Universal House of Justice has said. [While I appreciate the clarification offered in response to Khazeh. I'm still not certain if you are advocating the promotion of personal desires or admonishing those who do... in the best interests of the peoples and kindreds of the earth] ... and your following up question re: Seven Valleys and Four Valley with further quotes from the Hidden Words - suggest to me that perhaps you feel you have reached some degree of spiritual insight that perhaps others are unaware. Each of us have capacity for spiritual insight to lesser and greater degrees. To be truly informed of the innermost mysteries hidden in the Sacred Writings carries certain conditions and prerequisites as Baha'u'llah describes: Shouldst thou desire to apprehend these celestial allusions, to witness the mysteries of divine knowledge, and to become acquainted with His all-encompassing Word, then it behoveth thine eminence to inquire into these and other questions pertaining to thine origin and ultimate goal from those whom God hath made to be the Wellspring of His knowledge, the Heaven of His wisdom, and the Ark of His mysteries. For were it not for those effulgent Lights that shine above the horizon of His Essence, the people would know not their left hand from their right, how much less could they scale the heights of the inner realities or probe the depths of their subtleties! Whosoever entereth this city will comprehend every science before probing into its mysteries and will acquire from the leaves of its trees a knowledge and wisdom encompassing such mysteries of divine lordship as are enshrined within the treasuries of creation. (Baha'u'llah, Gems of Divine Mysteries, p. 14) Abdu'l-Baha further warns us: When man is not endowed with inner perception he is not informed of these important mysteries. *The retina of outer vision though sensitive and delicate may nevertheless be a hindrance to the inner eye which alone can perceive. The bestowals of God which are manifest in all phenomenal life are sometimes hidden by intervening veils of mental and mortal vision which render man spiritually blind and incapable* but when those scales are removed and the veils rent asunder, then the great signs of God will become visible and he will witness the eternal light filling the world. (Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section, p. 266) And to sum up my personal view... I think it IS possible to have TOO MUCH of a GOOD thing and offer this quote from Baha'u'llah: It is incumbent upon them who are in authority to exercise moderation in all things. Whatsoever passeth beyond the limits of moderation will cease to exert a beneficial influence. Consider for instance such things as liberty, civilization and the like. However much men of understanding may favourably regard them, they will, if carried to excess, exercise a pernicious influence upon men Please God, the peoples of the world may be led, as the result of the high endeavours exerted by their rulers and the wise and learned amongst men, to recognize their best interests. (Baha'u'llah, The Proclamation of Baha'u'llah, p. 112-114) Lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
...a quote taken from a news
The following is a quote taken from a news item... Musab al-Zarqawi: Our Sunni faith stipulates that the sword and bullets be the only dialogue between us and the worshippers of the cross. Could someone, perhaps Gilberto, tell me the particular Quranic text being referenced in this statement ? With appreciation... Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: ...a quote taken from a news,
Dear Gilberto, No assumption on my part... I assure you. My error is asuming that because he said Our Sunni faith... etc. the belief would have some basis in the Quran. And, if I remember correctly you are Sunni ... obviously a reliable source of information. If there is no basis for this stipulation in the Quran perhaps you could shed some light on how this belief could have become distorted - from what source?). I would also welcome comments from anyone-else. I didn't intentionally single you out Gilberto, I simply thought you were possibly the most knowledgible; having a Sunni perspective. Unfortunately, I'm probably in the (US) ignorant majority concerning the branches of Islam. Although I do think the citizen on the street is beginning to realize that not all Muslims follow the same teachings. lovingly, Sandra The following is a quote taken from a news item... Musab al-Zarqawi: Our Sunni faith stipulates that the sword and bullets be the only dialogue between us and the worshippers of the cross. Could someone, perhaps Gilberto, tell me the particular Quranic text being referenced in this statement ? Why would you assume that the Quran actually supports anything like that? Peace Gilberto pharaoh is just a leaf on a burning bush __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
The Power of the Mustard Seed
Some of you may find this interesting, if you have not seen it before. The Power of the Mustard Seed Why strict churches are strong. http://slate.msn.com/id/2118313/?GT1=6443 __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: ONE COMMON FAITH - Dominus Iesus, side-by-side common study (1)
Gilberto, you wrote: So for example, I realize and appreciate (really I do) that from your perspective the issue of who is or isn't Bahai is rather clear. But there are also other people claiming to be Bahai who don't necessarily meet your criteria. So implicitly or explicitly, you are choosing for them (over their objections) that they are not Bahai. Well, not exactly... Do not distress or deny anyone by saying 'He is not a Bahá'í!' He will be known by his deeds. There are no secrets among Bahá'ís; a Bahá'í does not hide anything. (Abdu'l-Baha, Abdu'l-Baha in London, p. 98) This is the botom line. lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: The Hands withholding
Dear Brent, H, you mentioned looking at a particular section in context. My current reference is the document on Ocean - I've misplaced the book. Is there something I've missed that delineates sections of the Surih of the Temple? Fix your gaze upon Him Who is the *Temple of God* amongst men. He, in truth, hath offered up His life as a ransom for the redemption of the world. He, verily, is the All-Bountiful, the Gracious, the Most High. If any differences arise amongst you, behold Me standing before your face, and overlook the faults of one another for My name's sake and as a token of your love for My manifest and resplendent Cause. (Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah pg. 315) Baha'u'llah is the Temple; The Living Temple, the Eyes, the Ears, the Tongue. I might well be mistaken in my understanding of this Tablet ... Having conceded that, to my mind, the entire Tablet seems to be the Summons of God addressing The Temple, Baha'u'llah and [then, through Him] those who will become His followers. It flows like dialogue between The Two through the intercession of the Maiden [Holy Spirit]. While I would agree that the term hands as defined in this Tablet, as well as other passages of the Sacred Writings, correllates with the duties of those honored men and women of the Institution, I would disagree that it was, in fact, a direct reference to the future Institution. I hear the Surih of the Temple as broader and more encompassing -an assurance of the charaterics and testament to the strengths of those who will respond to Baha'u'llah's Divine Message -an encouragement if you will. The day is approaching when God will have, by an act of His Will, raised up *a race of men* the nature of which is inscrutable to all save God, the All-Powerful, the Self-Subsisting. He shall purify them from the defilement of idle fancies and corrupt desires, shall lift them up to the heights of holiness, and shall cause them to manifest the signs of His sovereignty and might upon earth. Thus hath it been ordained by God, the All-Glorious, the All-Loving. (Summons to the Lord of Hosts pg.5) The Pen of the Most High hath decreed and imposed upon every one the obligation to teach this Cause God will, no doubt, inspire whosoever detacheth himself from all else but Him, and will cause the pure waters of wisdom and utterance to gush out and flow copiously from his heart. Verily, thy Lord, the All-Merciful, is powerful to do as He willeth, and ordaineth whatsoever He pleaseth. (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 3) Baha'u'llah, it seems, confirms the correlation by bestowing the distinction of Hand on worthy individuals -following this example, Abdu'l-Baha and the Guardian, did as well. With regard to the capitalization of Hand, in Shoghi Effendi's translation, I'm more inclined to think he chose to do so because the reference was to the hands of the Divine -figuratively speaking... Erelong shall God draw forth, out of the bosom of power, the hands of ascendancy and might, and shall raise up a people who will arise to win victory for this Youth and who will purge mankind from the defilement of the outcast and the ungodly. (Summons to the Lord of Hosts p.19) CXXXI. The Pen of the Ancient King hath never ceased to remember the loved ones of God. At one time, rivers of mercy have streamed from His Pen, at another, through its movement, God's perspicuous Book hath been revealed. He is the One to Whom none can compare, Whose utterance mortal man can never rival. *He it is Who from everlasting hath been established upon the seat of ascendancy and might*, He from Whose lips have gone out counsels that can satisfy the needs of the whole of mankind, and admonitions that can profit them. (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 286) No sooner had that eternal Beauty revealed Himself in Shiraz, in the year sixty, and rent asunder the veil of concealment, than *the signs of the ascendancy, the might*, the sovereignty, and power, emanating from that Essence of Essences and Sea of Seas, were manifest in every land. (Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 234) Send down upon them, therefore, O my Lord, that which will unmistakably reveal unto them the fury of Thy wrath and *the ascendancy of Thy power*, and will enable them to recognize *the weight of Thy might* and the greatness of Thy strength. (Baha'u'llah, Prayers and Meditations by Baha'u'llah, p. 141) Help them through Thy strengthening grace, I beseech Thee, O my God, to suffer patiently in their love for Thee, and unveil to their eyes what Thou hast decreed for them behind the Tabernacle of Thine unfailing protection, so that they may rush forward to meet what is preordained for them in Thy path, and may vie in hasting after tribulation in their love towards Thee. And if not, do Thou, then, *reveal the standards of Thine ascendancy*, and make them to be
Re: ONE COMMON FAITH - Dominus Iesus, side-by-side common study (1)
Gilberto: Just in general, it seems very hard to get around the issue. Anytime you take a religious group and you want to define it, by definition that means setting limits as to who is in, and who is out. And unless you simply accept everyone who self-identifies, it seems like you would invariably (even if only implicitly) set up some criteria and draw the line in a way which excludes at least somebody from the group. Dear Gilberto, I would agree with you, that there are limitations placed on membership - similar restrictions apply if you are buying a condo or joining a golf club. Membership implies a willingness to work within a prescribed framework. Agree also, that there are individuals who self-identify with a particular belief or group. I was a self-identified Baha'i for a period of several months before I was willing/confident enough to make a committment to the organizational framework. It's the choice of the individual to be included or not. lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: The Hands withholding
Brent: ...With these hands, moreover, We shall both bestow and withhold, though none can understand this save those who see with the eye of the spirit.' ... snip I am interested, not in how God withholds gifts, but in how you friends see that the Hands of the Cause have withheld. Dear Brent, Thank you for unintentionally calling me to the Suriy-i-Haykal this day. I've been pondering pages 3-54 most of the afternoon. I was a bit confused by your question - in particular the relationship of the Institution of the Hands of the Cause withholding anything ... to these particular passages. Can you clarify where you see the connection ? Erelong shall God draw forth, out of the bosom of power, the hands of ascendancy and might, and shall raise up a people who will arise to win victory for this Youth and who will purge mankind from the defilement of the outcast and the ungodly. (Summons to the Lord of Hosts p.19) Lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Just governments...
Dear Gilberto, You wrote: If the Nazis asked him where the German Bahais were, he could have just said no, I'll never turn them over. and that would have been disobedience. But if he disbanded the Bahais that means he could honestly say that the community didn't officially exist. The Nazis didn't ask the Guardian anything... The German Baha'is sought the Guardian's advice after they were approached by the Gestapo. He then advised the German Baha'is to disband. There was no direct communication between the Nazis and Shoghi Effendi regarding Jewish/Baha'is. Initial post from Rich here: http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m44764.html to refresh your memory. Rich just left out some of the detail when he referred to the incident a second time. You've asked before about self-defense. This would be an example of defending fellow believers by the act of sacrificing the administrative structure of the Baha'i community in Germany for the protection of particular members -in that historical context. lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: TV/movies
Hi David from Down Under! Here are a few quotes that may be relevant to your question on personal viewing censorship: Thine eye is My trust, suffer not the dust of vain desires to becloud its luster. Thine ear is a sign of My bounty, let not the tumult of unseemly motives turn it away from My Word that encompasseth all creation. Thine heart is My treasury, allow not the treacherous hand of self to rob thee of the pearls which I have treasured therein. Thine hand is a symbol of My loving-kindness, hinder it not from holding fast unto My guarded and hidden Tablets (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 322) The purpose of the one true God in manifesting Himself is to summon all mankind to truthfulness and sincerity, to piety and trustworthiness, to resignation and submissiveness to the Will of God, to forbearance and kindliness, to uprightness and wisdom. His object is to array every man with the mantle of a saintly character, and to adorn him with the ornament of holy and goodly deeds. Say: Have mercy on yourselves and on your fellowmen, and suffer not the Cause of God -- a Cause which is immeasurably exalted above the inmost essence of sanctity -- to be sullied with the stain of your idle fancies, your unseemly and corrupt imaginations. (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 299) The word of God which the Abha Pen hath revealed and inscribed on the first leaf of the Most Exalted Paradise is this: Verily I say: The fear of God hath ever been a sure defence and a safe stronghold for all the peoples of the world. It is the chief cause of the protection of mankind, and the supreme instrument for its preservation. Indeed, there existeth in man a faculty which deterreth him from, and guardeth him against, whatever is unworthy and unseemly, and which is known as his sense of shame. This, however, is confined to but a few; all have not possessed and do not possess it. (Baha'u'llah, Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 63) Convey the greetings of this Wronged One unto all the beloved friends in that region and call to their minds Our wondrous and exalted remembrances, that haply they may forsake the things current amongst them, may set their hearts on that which pertaineth unto God and remain purged from unseemly deeds and pursuits. (Baha'u'llah, Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 238) From time immemorial even unto this day, all the kindreds and peoples of the earth have clung to such fanciful and unseemly thoughts, and thus have deprived themselves of the clear waters streaming from the springs of purity and holiness. (Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 19) Regarding Jerry Springer... I think this one is appropriate: We exhort you, O peoples of the world, to observe that which will elevate your station. Hold fast to the fear of God and firmly adhere to what is right. Verily I say, the tongue is for mentioning what is good, defile it not with unseemly talk. God hath forgiven what is past. Henceforward everyone should utter that which is meet and seemly, and should refrain from slander, abuse and whatever causeth sadness in men. Lofty is the station of man! (Baha'u'llah, Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 219) Lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Just governments...
Dear Gilberto, One of the difficulties encountered when Baha'is give answers off the top of their head about the Baha'i Faith is that it is generally an abbreviated explanation. The common denominator here, is the Sacred texts of the Baha'i Faith and the source for the most thorough explanation. Which is why so many of us choose to refer you back to the Writings of the Central Figures. With regard to obedience/disobedience to governments... there is a qualifier that seems to be missing from the discussion. That word is just. Obedience to JUST governments. It is incumbent upon every man, in this Day, to hold fast unto whatsoever will promote the interests, and exalt the station, of all nations and just governments. (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 94) Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
re: Scope of the House of Justice
Ahang: Yes, but exact same thing is stated in regard to all Spiritual Assemblies. That is, in consultation, they are all recipient of Divine Guidance. Dear Ahang, Are there prerequisites outlined for the Universal House of Justice that enables them to be recipients of Divine Guidance as it is with Local Spiritual Assemblies? See the following: lovingly, Sandra The members thereof [1] must take counsel together in such wise that no occasion for ill-feeling or discord may arise. This can be attained when every member expresseth with absolute freedom his own opinion and setteth forth his argument. Should anyone oppose, he must on no account feel hurt for not until matters are fully discussed can the right way be revealed. The shining spark of truth cometh forth only after the clash of differing opinions. If after discussion, a decision be carried unanimously well and good; but if, the Lord forbid, differences of opinion should arise, a majority of voices must prevail. [1 Of a Spiritual Assembly] The first condition is absolute love and harmony amongst the members of the assembly. They must be wholly free from estrangement and must manifest in themselves the Unity of God, for they are the waves of one sea, the drops of one river, the stars of one heaven, the rays of one sun, the trees of one orchard, the flowers of one garden. Should harmony of thought and absolute unity be nonexistent, that gathering shall be dispersed and that assembly be brought to naught. The second condition is that the members of the assembly should unitedly elect a chairman and lay down guide-lines and by-laws for their meetings and discussions. The chairman should have charge of such rules and regulations and protect and enforce them; the other members should be submissive, and refrain from conversing on superfluous and extraneous matters. They must, when coming together, turn their faces to the Kingdom on high and ask aid from the Realm of Glory. They must then proceed with the utmost devotion, courtesy, dignity, care and moderation to express their views. They must in every matter search out the truth and not insist upon their own opinion, for stubbornness and persistence in one's views will lead ultimately to discord and wrangling and the truth will remain hidden. The honoured members must with all freedom express their own thoughts, and it is in no wise permissible for one to belittle the thought of another, nay, he must with moderation set forth the truth, and should differences of opinion arise a majority of voices must prevail, and all must obey and submit to the majority. It is again not permitted that any one of the honoured members object to or censure, whether in or out of the meeting, any decision arrived at previously, though that decision be not right, for such criticism would prevent any decision from being enforced. In short, whatsoever thing is arranged in harmony and with love and purity of motive, its result is light, and should the least trace of estrangement prevail the result shall be darkness upon darkness *If this be so regarded, that assembly shall be of God, but otherwise it shall lead to coolness and alienation that proceed from the Evil One Should they endeavour to fulfil these conditions the Grace of the Holy Spirit shall be vouchsafed unto them,* and that assembly shall become the centre of the Divine blessings, the hosts of Divine confirmation shall come to their aid, and they shall day by day receive a new effusion of Spirit. (Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 88) __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Scope of the House of Justice -VERY LONG
Susan: Is that what your argument is based on, capitalization? Because as far as I know there is not any convention whereby Baha'is are supposed to use upper case letters to refer to the Universal House of Justice and lower case when referring to other institutions. The only difference between those passages using caps or not using caps as far as I can tell is that the former are translated by the Guardian and the latter are later translations. Dear Susan, Considering that I wasn't stating my opinion and and defining my personal logic in an attempt to persuade, I would have to say No to your question. I don't view this as a great debate with a winner and loser. I view this as consultation with a view to gaining new insights; and no vested interest in anyone accepting or rejecting my opinion. Actually, whenever, I have a curiosity about a particular topic I research for constancy in the writings. Having done that - I'm personally convinced that my initial understanding still holds... (for me at least!) Would you agree that in the English language words which are are capitalized enable the reader to distinguish, in context, the significance of the capitalization. For instance: God or god. I trust the Guardian intended to convey the distinctive nature of the title when capitalizing *Trustees*. He knew the value of nuances contained in the English language and utilized the language as a tool - I suspect it was an exercise he relished. World Order was the first Baha'i book I read and I still find it totally amazing as an example of the vast range of the English language with regard to clarity. I do hope Ahang can find time to track the scope of the House of Justice through the text. I think it's an important topic to pursue and gain a better understanding of the progression of the vision from Baha'u'llah, to Abdu'l-Baha and then the Guardian. Lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Scope of the House of Justice -VERY LONG
Susan: Some of those passage you cite would refer only to the Universal House of Justice and some to Houses of Justice in general. I don't think that the term 'trustee' is any hint as to which He is referring to. All members of any elected institution are 'Trustees of the Merciful.' Dear Susan, Perhaps the quote below is one you are thinking of: 5. The Lord hath ordained that in every city a House of Justice be established wherein shall gather counsellors to the number of Baha, and should it exceed this number it does not matter... It behoveth them to be the trusted ones of the Merciful among men and to regard themselves as the guardians appointed of God for all that dwell on earth. It is incumbent upon them to take counsel together and to have regard for the interests of the servants of God, for His sake, even as they regard their own interests, and to choose that which is meet and seemly. Thus hath the Lord your God, the Gracious, the Pardoner, commanded you. Beware lest ye put away that which is clearly revealed in His Tablet. Fear God, O ye that perceive. (Baha'u'llah, Synopsis and Codification of the Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 13) and this one also: To repudiate the validity of the assemblies of the elected ministers of the Faith of Bahá'u'lláh would be to reject those countless Tablets of Bahá'u'lláh and 'Abdu'l-Bahá wherein They have extolled the station of the trustees of the Merciful, enumerated their privileges and duties, emphasized the glory of their mission, revealed the immensity of their task, and warned them of the attacks they must needs expect from the unwisdom of their friends as well as from the malice of their enemies. It is surely for those to whose hands so priceless a heritage has been committed to prayerfully watch lest the tool should supersede the Faith itself, lest undue concern for the minute details arising from the administration of the Cause obscure the vision of its promoters, lest partiality, ambition, and worldliness tend in the course of time to becloud the radiance, stain the purity, and impair the effectiveness of the Faith of Bahá'u'lláh. (Shoghi Effendi, The World Order of Baha'u'llah, p. 9) Now, if I were not aware of the Guardian's persnickety precision in his English translations, I might agree that all the previous post references referred to any Baha'i House of Justice. However, I have no doubt that the Guardian understood the capitalization of proper nouns. Having said that; I did notice that there were two quotes from the Guardian, which I included before, where the word *trustees* was not capitalized. I will also concede that there is a margin of error involved from written work to printed text... But, taking that into consideration does not outweigh my gut feeling. In closing, I took a swim OCEAN and found no other references besides the two quoted here that literally ties the phrase trustees of the Merciful to Local Houses of Justice. I view 'Trustees of the Merciful' [as written] to be a specific title or phrase that constitutes the distinctive designation of this particular legislative body. Lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Characteristics of a leader ...
Gilberto: Sure. For many of those characteristics listed I've seen passages of Quran, or hadith, etc. which mention them as well. I don't think Bahais have monopolies on those characteristics. There are ways to cultivate and encourage and facilitate good leaders which don't involve converting to a different religion. Dear Gilberto, Who said otherwise? All the Manifestations of God have educated humanity in those characteristics which distinguish us from the animal. lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Arson
Scott: Trying to enforce the cutting off of a man's hand for theft becomes a problem when the rest of the world society perceives it to be brutal - for one instance. Gilberto: But on what grounds is it brutal? It's inhumane; lacking in compassion, sympathy, or consideration for a fellow human being. It's a life sentence without an appendage. It's an act of vengence, branding, and humiliation rather than one of punishment equal to the crime. And, before you ask... burning someone alive would also be inhumane; which is why we have an alternative solution. Anyway, who knows 500 years from now what will be the method of execution or for that matter if humans will even dwell on this planet ? lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Marriage simplicity
Gilberto: To get married you only need 2 witnesses and it literally could just take a couple seconds to have a legally valid marriage. For your general information this could well describe the requirements to sanction a Baha'i marriage. Before at least two witnesses the couple each recite this verse: We will all, verily, abide by the Will of God. (Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 105) Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Arson
Gilberto: My present-day conscience tells me that burning people alive is brutal. I also think in the West there are many present-day consciences who would have problems with the Bahai rules about women, homosexuality, pre-publication review, and the separation of church-and-state. So where does that leave us? In a state of moral decline. Bearing in mind that -from my Baha'i perspective- this Dispensation is less that 200 years old with approximately 800 years to go and reflecting on the Dispensations of the past the greater part of humanity is still asleep. The following is from Citadel of Faith, by Shoghi Effendi, who describes some projections for 'America as enunciated by Abdu'l-Baha: The American nation, of which the community of the Most Great Name forms as yet a negligible and infinitesimal part, stands, indeed, from whichever angle one observes its immediate fortunes, in grave peril. The woes and tribulations which threaten it are partly avoidable, but mostly inevitable and God-sent, for by reason of them a government and people clinging tenaciously to the obsolescent doctrine of absolute sovereignty and upholding a political system, manifestly at variance with the needs of a world already contracted into a neighborhood and crying out for unity, will find itself purged of its anachronistic conceptions, and prepared to play a preponderating role, as foretold by 'Abdu'l-Bahá, in the hoisting of the standard of the Lesser Peace, in the unification of mankind, and in the establishment of a world federal government on this planet. These same fiery tribulations will not only firmly weld the American nation to its sister nations in both hemispheres, but will through their cleansing effect, purge it thoroughly of the accumulated dross which ingrained racial prejudice, rampant materialism, widespread ungodliness and moral laxity have combined, in the course of successive generations, to produce, and which have prevented her thus far from assuming the role of world spiritual leadership forecast by 'Abdu'l-Bahá's unerring pen -- a role which she is bound to fulfill through travail and sorrow. (Shoghi Effendi, Citadel of Faith, p. 126) lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Righteous Warfare - `Abdu'l-Bahá - The Secret of Divine Civilization [1]
In response to Gilberto's question on Righteous Warfare... part 1 of 4 `Abdu'l-Bahá - The Secret of Divine Civilization pgs. 55-59 Today we have closed our eyes to every righteous act and have sacrificed the abiding happiness of society to our own transitory profit. We regard fanaticism and zealotry as redounding to our credit and honor, and not content with this, we denounce one another and plot each other's ruin, and whenever we wish to put on a show of wisdom and learning, of virtue and godliness, we set about mocking and reviling this one and that. The ideas of such a one, we say, are wide of the mark, and so-and-so's behavior leaves much to be desired. The religious observances of Zayd are few and far between, and Amr is not firm in his faith. So-and-so's opinions smack of Europe. Fundamentally, Blank thinks of nothing but his own name and fame. Last night when the congregation stood up to pray, the row was out of line, and it is not permissible to follow a different leader. No rich man has died this month, and nothing has been offered to charity in memory of the Prophet. The edifice of religion has crumbled, the foundations of faiths have been blown to the winds. The carpet of belief has been rolled up, the tokens of certitude blotted out; the whole world has fallen into error; when it comes to repelling tyranny all are soft and remiss. Days and months have passed away, and these villages and estates still belong to the same owners as they did last year. In this town there used to be seventy different governments functioning in good order, but the number has steadily decreased; there are only twenty-five left now, as a memento. It used to be that two hundred contradictory judgments were handed down by the same mufti in any one day, now we hardly get fifty. In those days there were crowds of people who were all brainsick with litigation, and now they rest in peace; today the plaintiff would be defeated and the defendant victorious, tomorrow the plaintiff won the case and the defendant lost it -- but now this excellent practice has been abandoned too. What is this heathenish religion, this idolatrous kind of error! Alas for the Law, alas for the Faith, alas for all these calamities! O Brothers in the Faith! This is surely the end of the world! The Judgment is coming! With words such as these they assault the minds of the helpless masses and disturb the hearts of the already bewildered poor, who know nothing of the true state of affairs and the real basis for all such talk, and remain completely unaware of the fact that a thousand selfish purposes are concealed behind the supposedly religious eloquence of certain individuals. They imagine that speakers of this type are motivated by virtuous zeal, when the truth is that such individuals keep up a great hue and cry because they see their own personal ruin in the welfare of the masses, and believe that if the people's eyes are opened, their own light will go out. Only the keenest insight will detect the fact that if the hearts of these individuals were really impelled by righteousness and the fear of God, the fragrance of it would, like musk, be spreading everywhere. Nothing in the world can ever be supported by words alone. But these ill-omened owls have done a wrong, And learned to sing as the white falcon sings. And what of Sheba's message that the lapwing brings If the bittern learn to sing the lapwing's song?[1] [1 Cf. Qur'án 27:20 ff.] The spiritually learned, those who have derived infinite significance and wisdom from the Book of Divine Revelation, and whose illumined hearts draw inspiration from the unseen world of God, certainly exert their efforts to bring about the supremacy of the true followers of God, in all respects and above all peoples, and they toil and struggle to make use of every agency that will conduce to progress. If any man neglects these high purposes he can never prove acceptable in the sight of God; he stands out with all his shortcomings and claims perfection, and destitute, pretends to wealth. One sluggish, blind and surly's a poor thing, A lump of flesh, without a foot or wing. How far is he who apes and makes a show From the illumined, who doth truly know. One but an echo, though it's clear and sharp, And one, the Psalmist David with his harp. Knowledge, purity, devotion, discipline, independence, have nothing to do with outer appearance and dress. Once in the course of My travels I heard an eminent personage make the following excellent remark, the wit and charm of which remain in memory: Not every cleric's turban is a proof of continence and knowledge; not every layman's hat a sign of ignorance and immorality. How many a hat has proudly raised the banner of knowledge, how many a turban pulled down the Law of God! The third element of the utterance under discussion is, opposes his passions. How wonderful are the implications of this deceptively easy, all-inclusive phrase. This is the very foundation of every laudable
Righteous Warfare - `Abdu'l-Bahá - The Secret of Divine Civilization [3]
Continuing part 3: `Abdu'l-Bahá - The Secret of Divine Civilization pgs. 64-68 True civilization will unfurl its banner in the midmost heart of the world whenever a certain number of its distinguished and high-minded sovereigns -- the shining exemplars of devotion and determination -- shall, for the good and happiness of all mankind, arise, with firm resolve and clear vision, to establish the Cause of Universal Peace. They must make the Cause of Peace the object of general consultation, and seek by every means in their power to establish a Union of the nations of the world. They must conclude a binding treaty and establish a covenant, the provisions of which shall be sound, inviolable and definite. They must proclaim it to all the world and obtain for it the sanction of all the human race. This supreme and noble undertaking -- the real source of the peace and well-being of all the world -- should be regarded as sacred by all that dwell on earth. All the forces of humanity must be mobilized to ensure the stability and permanence of this Most Great Covenant. In this all-embracing Pact the limits and frontiers of each and every nation should be clearly fixed, the principles underlying the relations of governments towards one another definitely laid down, and all international agreements and obligations ascertained. In like manner, the size of the armaments of every government should be strictly limited, for if the preparations for war and the military forces of any nation should be allowed to increase, they will arouse the suspicion of others. The fundamental principle underlying this solemn Pact should be so fixed that if any government later violate any one of its provisions, all the governments on earth should arise to reduce it to utter submission, nay the human race as a whole should resolve, with every power at its disposal, to destroy that government. Should this greatest of all remedies be applied to the sick body of the world, it will assuredly recover from its ills and will remain eternally safe and secure.[1] [1 The foregoing paragraph, together with the later paragraph beginning A few, unaware of the power latent in human endeavor, was translated by Shoghi Effendi, Guardian of the Bahá'í Faith. Cf. The World Order of Bahá'u'lláh, pp. 37-38.] Observe that if such a happy situation be forthcoming, no government would need continually to pile up the weapons of war, nor feel itself obliged to produce ever new military weapons with which to conquer the human race. A small force for the purposes of internal security, the correction of criminal and disorderly elements and the prevention of local disturbances, would be required -- no more. In this way the entire population would, first of all, be relieved of the crushing burden of expenditure currently imposed for military purposes, and secondly, great numbers of people would cease to devote their time to the continual devising of new weapons of destruction -- those testimonials of greed and bloodthirstiness, so inconsistent with the gift of life -- and would instead bend their efforts to the production of whatever will foster human existence and peace and well-being, and would become the cause of universal development and prosperity. Then every nation on earth will reign in honor, and every people will be cradled in tranquillity and content. A few, unaware of the power latent in human endeavor, consider this matter as highly impracticable, nay even beyond the scope of man's utmost efforts. Such is not the case, however. On the contrary, thanks to the unfailing grace of God, the loving-kindness of His favored ones, the unrivaled endeavors of wise and capable souls, and the thoughts and ideas of the peerless leaders of this age, nothing whatsoever can be regarded as unattainable. Endeavor, ceaseless endeavor, is required. Nothing short of an indomitable determination can possibly achieve it. Many a cause which past ages have regarded as purely visionary, yet in this day has become most easy and practicable. Why should this most great and lofty Cause -- the daystar of the firmament of true civilization and the cause of the glory, the advancement, the well-being and the success of all humanity -- be regarded as impossible of achievement? Surely the day will come when its beauteous light shall shed illumination upon the assemblage of man. The apparatus of conflict will, as preparations go on at their present rate, reach the point where war will become something intolerable to mankind. It is clear from what has already been said that man's glory and greatness do not consist in his being avid for blood and sharp of claw, in tearing down cities and spreading havoc, in butchering armed forces and civilians. What would mean a bright future for him would be his reputation for justice, his kindness to the entire population whether high or low, his building up countries and cities, villages and districts, his making life easy, peaceful and happy for his fellow
Righteous Warfare - `Abdu'l-Bahá - The Secret of Divine Civilization [2]
Continuing part 2: `Abdu'l-Bahá - The Secret of Divine Civilization pgs. 60-63 All the peoples of Europe, notwithstanding their vaunted civilization, sink and drown in this terrifying sea of passion and desire, and this is why all the phenomena of their culture come to nothing. Let no one wonder at this statement or deplore it. The primary purpose, the basic objective, in laying down powerful laws and setting up great principles and institutions dealing with every aspect of civilization, is human happiness; and human happiness consists only in drawing closer to the Threshold of Almighty God, and in securing the peace and well-being of every individual member, high and low alike, of the human race; and the supreme agencies for accomplishing these two objectives are the excellent qualities with which humanity has been endowed. A superficial culture, unsupported by a cultivated morality, is as a confused medley of dreams,[1] and external lustre without inner perfection is like a vapor in the desert which the thirsty dreameth to be water.[2] For results which would win the good pleasure of God and secure the peace and well-being of man, could never be fully achieved in a merely external civilization. [1 Qur'án 12:44; 21:5.] [2 Qur'án 24:39.] The peoples of Europe have not advanced to the higher planes of moral civilization, as their opinions and behavior clearly demonstrate. Notice, for example, how the supreme desire of European governments and peoples today is to conquer and crush one another, and how, while harboring the greatest secret repulsion, they spend their time exchanging expressions of neighborly affection, friendship and harmony. There is the well-known case of the ruler who is fostering peace and tranquillity and at the same time devoting more energy than the warmongers to the accumulation of weapons and the building up of a larger army, on the grounds that peace and harmony can only be brought about by force. Peace is the pretext, and night and day they are all straining every nerve to pile up more weapons of war, and to pay for this their wretched people must sacrifice most of whatever they are able to earn by their sweat and toil. How many thousands have given up their work in useful industries and are laboring day and night to produce new and deadlier weapons which would spill out the blood of the race more copiously than before. Each day they invent a new bomb or explosive and then the governments must abandon their obsolete arms and begin producing the new, since the old weapons cannot hold their own against the new. For example at this writing, in the year 1292 A.H. [1] they have invented a new rifle in Germany and a bronze cannon in Austria, which have greater firepower than the Martini-Henry rifle and the Krupp cannon, are more rapid in their effects and more efficient in annihilating humankind. The staggering cost of it all must be borne by the hapless masses. [1 1875 A.D.] Be just: can this nominal civilization, unsupported by a genuine civilization of character, bring about the peace and well-being of the people or win the good pleasure of God? Does it not, rather, connote the destruction of man's estate and pull down the pillars of happiness and peace? At the time of the Franco-Prussian War, in the year 1870 of the Christian era, it was reported that 600,000 men died, broken and beaten, on the field of battle. How many a home was torn out by the roots; how many a city, flourishing the night before, was toppled down by sunrise. How many a child was orphaned and abandoned, how many an old father and mother had to see their sons, the young fruit of their lives, twisting and dying in dust and blood. How many women were widowed, left without a helper or protector. And then there were the libraries and magnificent buildings of France that went up in flames, and the military hospital, packed with sick and wounded men, that was set on fire and burned to the ground. And there followed the terrible events of the Commune, the savage acts, the ruin and horror when opposing factions fought and killed one another in the streets of Paris. There were the hatreds and hostilities between Catholic religious leaders and the German government. There was the civil strife and uproar, the bloodshed and havoc brought on between the partisans of the Republic and the Carlists in Spain. Only too many such instances are available to demonstrate the fact that Europe is morally uncivilized. Since the writer has no wish to cast aspersions on anyone He has confined Himself to these few examples. It is clear that no perceptive and well-informed mind can countenance such events. Is it right and proper that peoples among whom, diametrically opposed to the most desirable human behavior, such horrors take place, should dare lay claim to a real and adequate civilization? Especially when out of all this no results can be hoped for except the winning of a transient victory; and since this outcome never endures, it is, to
Righteous Warfare - `Abdu'l-Bahá - The Secret of Divine Civilization [4]
Continuing part 4: `Abdu'l-Bahá - The Secret of Divine Civilization pgs. 69-71 Contrast with this the praiseworthy qualities and the greatness and nobility of Anushirvan the Generous and the Just. [1] That fair-minded monarch came to power at a time when the once solidly established throne of Persia was about to crumble away. With his Divine gift of intellect, he laid the foundations of justice, uprooting oppression and tyranny and gathering the scattered peoples of Persia under the wings of his dominion. Thanks to the restoring influence of his continual care, Persia that had lain withered and desolate was quickened into life and rapidly changed into the fairest of all flourishing nations. He rebuilt and reinforced the disorganized powers of the state, and the renown of his righteousness and justice echoed across the seven climes, [2] until the peoples rose up out of their degradation and misery to the heights of felicity and honor. Although he was a Magian, Muhammad, that Center of creation and Sun of prophethood, said of him: I was born in the time of a just king, and rejoiced at having come into the world during his reign. Did this illustrious personage achieve his exalted station by virtue of his admirable qualities or rather by reaching out to conquer the earth and spill the blood of its peoples? Observe that he attained to such a distinguished rank in the heart of the world that his greatness still rings out through all the impermanence of time, and he won eternal life. Should We comment on the continuing life of the great, this brief essay would be unduly prolonged, and since it is by no means certain that public opinion in Persia will be materially affected by its perusal, We shall abridge the work, and go on to other matters which come within the purview of the public mind. If, however, it develops that this abridgement produces favorable results, We shall, God willing, write a number of books dealing at length and usefully with fundamental principles of the Divine wisdom in its relation to the phenomenal world. [1 Sasaniyan king who reigned 531-578 A.D.] [2 i.e., the whole world.] No power on earth can prevail against the armies of justice, and every citadel must fall before them; for men willingly go down under the triumphant strokes of this decisive blade, and desolate places bloom and flourish under the tramplings of this host. There are two mighty banners which, when they cast their shadow across the crown of any king, will cause the influence of his government quickly and easily to penetrate the whole earth, even as if it were the light of the sun: the first of these two banners is wisdom; the second is justice. Against these two most potent forces, the iron hills cannot prevail, and Alexander's wall will break before them. It is clear that life in this fast-fading world is as fleeting and inconstant as the morning wind, and this being so, how fortunate are the great who leave a good name behind them, and the memory of a lifetime spent in the pathway of the good pleasure of God. It is all one, if it be a throne Or the bare ground under the open sky, Where the pure soul lays him Down to die.[1 [1 Sa'di, The Gulistan, On the Conduct of Kings.] A conquest can be a praiseworthy thing, and there are times when war becomes the powerful basis of peace, and ruin the very means of reconstruction. If, for example, a high-minded sovereign marshals his troops to block the onset of the insurgent and the aggressor, or again, if he takes the field and distinguishes himself in a struggle to unify a divided state and people, if, in brief, he is waging war for a righteous purpose, then this seeming wrath is mercy itself, and this apparent tyranny the very substance of justice and this warfare the cornerstone of peace. Today, the task befitting great rulers is to establish universal peace, for in this lies the freedom of all peoples. [The last paragraph is quoted in Bahá'u'lláh and The New Era pg. 172] __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Ruhi - a data point from Houston
I completely agree about Ruhi and youth. Here is my post from 2001: http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m29288.html Unfortunately from then to now there hasn't been a Book 2 offering in our community as many others became enthusiastic and there have been several more Book 1 study circles. It has also been stated here in Alaska that Jr.Youth should not take the Ruhi course but, instead take the course (patterned after Ruhi) especially for Youth. I'm not sure what that is called. I'm curious if it is the same elsewhere. Regardless, it is only offered to Youth groups 15 and above and he is now 14. When will we ever focus on Jr. Youth as the House of Justice directed 3years ago ?!? lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Arson
Speaking of arson... I sent this several days ago... but haven't seen it on the list. - Original Message - From: Sandra Chamberlain To: BAHA'I STUDIES Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 2:58 PM Subject: Arson Gilberto, you stated: Also, since being burned alive is the punishment for arson in the Bahai faith, I'm not sure on what grounds you are objecting to the above. Would you please provide your source for this statement - Book and page from Baha'i Sacred Scripture ? Thank you! Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Arson
Gilberto: That's really bizzare. I saw this a long time ago. And Mark already gave a more complete answer to the question than I would have given a long time ago. Well, sometimes, posts are missing from the Archives, which is where I looked. Nothing from me on the 14th and nothing from Mark in a search of the word *arson*. However, I did find the quote from Baha'u'llah that you apparently refered to. There were other posts on this subject in 2003 and 2004. Perhaps you or Mark could direct me to the *subject* heading so I can look for his response ? Often when there are so many posts as there are now, it's a bit difficult to find a particular topic with out a word search. Subject heading remain the same while the *topic* changes. lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Statements on abortion - LOG
B. Abortion 1154. Abortion Merely to Prevent the Birth of an Unwanted Child is Strictly Forbidden in the Cause Abortion merely to prevent the birth of an unwanted child is strictly forbidden in the Cause. There may, however, be instances in which an abortion would be justified by medical reasons, and legislation on this matter has been left to the Universal House of Justice. At the present time, however, the House of Justice does not intend to legislate on this very delicate issue, and therefore it is left to the consciences of those concerned who must carefully weigh the medical advice in the light of the general guidance given in the teachings. (From a letter written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice to the National Spiritual Assembly of Ireland, March 16, 1983) 1155. Surgical Operation and Abortion -- The soul Appears at Conception Abortion and surgical operations for the purpose of preventing the birth of unwanted children are forbidden in the Cause unless there are circumstances which justify such actions on medical grounds, in which case the decision, at present, is left to the consciences of those concerned who must carefully weigh the medical advice in the light of the general guidance given in the Teachings. Beyond this nothing has been found in the Writings concerning specific methods or procedures to be used in family planning. It should be pointed out, however, that the Teachings state that the soul appears at conception, and that therefore it would be improper to use such a method, the effect of which would be to produce an abortion after conception has taken place. (From letter written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice to an individual believer, May 23, 1975) (Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 343) 1163. Husband and Wife to Decide How Many Children to Have There is nothing in the Sacred Writings specifically on the subjects of birth control, abortion or sterilization, but Bahá'u'lláh did state the primary purpose of marriage was the procreation of children, and it is to this primary purpose that the beloved Guardian alludes in many of the letters which are quoted in the compilation. This does not imply that a couple are obliged to have as many children as they can; the Guardian's secretary clearly stated on his behalf, in answer to an enquiry, that it was for the husband and wife to decide how many children they would have. A decision to have no children at all would vitiate the primary purpose of marriage unless, of course, there were some medical reason why such a decision would be required. You and your husband, therefore, should have no feeling that you are obliged to add to your already large family. This is a matter entirely for you to decide, and there are many methods of preventing conception, including self-discipline and restraint, to which you can have recourse. Sterilization, however, would be a more far-reaching action that any of these, with implications and results beyond those necessary for the immediate purpose of limiting the size of your family, and is not permissible in Bahá'í law except in rare instances where it is necessary for a medical reason. (From letter written in behalf of the Universal House of Justice to an individual believer, January 28, 1977) (Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 346) It is clear that to have surgical operation merely to avoid unwanted children is not acceptable. However, as in the case of abortion, circumstances might exist in which such an operation would be justified. Individual believers called upon to make such a decision must be guided by the Bahá'í principles involved, the best professional advice available to them and their own consciences. In arriving at a decision the parties must also take into consideration the availability, reliability, and reversibility of all contraceptive methods. (From a letter written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice to an individual believer.) (Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 347) __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
wrong made right
Susan: If I recall correctly the passage you are alluding to, I think it is one which has been misused a lot. Wasn't Abdu'l-Baha talking more about Assembly members all getting behind a decision that the majority agreed upon rather than so much the community at large? In other words we are talking about a situation where each Assembly member got their say before the decision in question was made. I think the frustration a lot of us feel is over the fact that we were never part of the consultative process which decided on Ruhi material to begin with. In fact, even our NSA seems to have largely been shut out of the process. It mostly came down from the ITC, which as you know, is not an elected institution. Dear Susan, While I see your point and recognize also, the connection to an institution decision making process, nonetheless to my mind the overriding principle is one of Consultation in general between individuals (say husband wife or family) as well as Administrative bodies. I offer the following: It is my hope that the friends and the maid-servants of America become united on all subjects and not disagree at all. If they agree upon a subject, even though it be wrong, it is better than to disagree and be in the right, for this difference will produce the demolition of the divine foundation. Though one of the parties may be in the right and they disagree that will be the cause of a thousand wrongs, but if they agree and both parties are in the wrong, as it is in unity the truth will be revealed and the wrong made right. (Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section, p. 411) CONSULTATION-In Bahá'í usage, a technical term referring to the process of collective decision-making. The aim of Bahá'í consultation is to arrive at the best solution or to uncover the truth of a matter. Among the requisites for consultation that are set out in the Bahá'í Writings are love, harmony, purity of motive, humility, lowliness, patience, and long-suffering. Individuals not only have the right to express their views, but they are expected to express them fully and with the utmost devotion, courtesy, dignity, care, and moderation. If unanimity is not achieved, decisions are arrived at by majority vote. Once a decision is reached, all parties, having had the opportunity to express their views fully, are to work together wholeheartedly to implement it. If the decision is wrong, 'Abdu'l-Bahá says, through unity the truth will become evident and the wrong made right. (The Universal House of Justice, Messages 1963 to 1986, p. 736) Lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Arson
Gilberto, you stated: Also, since being burned alive is the punishment for arson in the Bahai faith, I'm not sure on what grounds you are objecting to the above. Would you please provide your source for this statement - Book and page from Baha'i Sacred Scripture ? Thank you! Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Regarding membership on the Universal House of Justice
Dear Gilberto and Scott, In an attempt to add some balance to the endless discussion about who determined that women should not serve on the Universal House of Justice; I offer the following from the Kitab-i-Aqdas, after your comments. Gilberto: The UHJ which interprets the laws excludes women, while there are no theological barriers to having women be ulema (scholars) muftis (those who issue fatwas or legal rulings) or judges. SC: To my knowledge there are no theological barriers to Baha'i women being scholars or participating in decisions of a judicial nature within the prerogatives of a Local Spiritual Assembly [future *Local* House of Justice] Scott: Actually it was a Universal House of Justice decision that ruled that women could not be on the UHJ. SC: There was no arbitrary decision on the part of the Universal House of Justice to exclude women. That directive is from Baha'ullah, Himself... THE TABLET OF ISHRAQAT THE EIGHTH ISHRAQ This passage, now written by the Pen of Glory, is accounted as part of the Most Holy Book: The *men* of God's House of Justice have been charged with the affairs of the people. They, in truth, are the Trustees of God among His servants and the daysprings of authority in His countries. O people of God! That which traineth the world is Justice, for it is upheld by two pillars, reward and punishment. These two pillars are the sources of life to the world. Inasmuch as for each day there is a new problem and for every problem an expedient solution, such affairs should be referred to the House of Justice that the members thereof may act according to the needs and requirements of the time. They that, for the sake of God, arise to serve His Cause, are the recipients of divine inspiration from the unseen Kingdom. It is incumbent upon all to be obedient unto them. All matters of State should be referred to the House of Justice, but acts of worship must be observed according to that which God hath revealed in His Book. (Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 91) * my asterisks Lovingly, Sandra Lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Women in West/Islam
Gilberto: The rights of Muslim women to property and inheritance, to some protection if divorced, and to the conducting of business, were rights prescribed by the Quran twelve hundred years ago, even if they were not everywhere translated into practice. Dear Gilberto, And, interestingly, this is just one of many possible examples why it is necessary for God in His Omnipotence to send progressive revelations through His Manifestations. ...rights prescribed by the Quran twelve hundred years ago, even if they were not everywhere translated into practice. We KNOW the PRESCRIPTION of the Divine Physician we don't always take the medicine!! We meaning humanity... You undoubtedly are also aware that Baha'u'llah's revealed prescriptions for this Day were not some dark and hidden secret - certainly not in the Muslim countries during His lifetime. With respect and appreciation of your scholarly endeavours! Lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
If the Bahai faith truly represents radical progress and maturity ...
If the Bahai faith truly represents radical progress and maturity then it should provide something which is missing from the other religions. If there is nothing missing from previous religions then they are perfectly sufficient for today. The Baha'i Faith ie the Revelation of Baha'u'llah, proclaims this to be the Day of God and His Justice. XII. Bestir yourselves, O people, in anticipation of the days of Divine justice, for the promised hour is now come. Beware lest ye fail to apprehend its import and be accounted among the erring. (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 16) XIII. Consider the past. How many, both high and low, have, at all times, yearningly awaited the advent of the Manifestations of God in the sanctified persons of His chosen Ones. How often have they expected His coming, how frequently have they prayed that the breeze of Divine mercy might blow, and the promised Beauty step forth from behind the veil of concealment, and be made manifest to all the world. And whensoever the portals of grace did open, and the clouds of divine bounty did rain upon mankind, and the light of the Unseen did shine above the horizon of celestial might, they all denied Him, and turned away from His face -- the face of God Himself (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 17) It is evident that the changes brought about in every Dispensation constitute the dark clouds that intervene between the eye of man's understanding and the Divine Luminary which shineth forth from the day spring of the Divine Essence. Consider how men for generations have been blindly imitating their fathers, and have been trained according to such ways and manners as have been laid down by the dictates of their Faith. Were these men, therefore, to discover suddenly that a Man, Who hath been living in their midst, Who, with respect to every human limitation hath been their equal, had risen to abolish every established principle imposed by their Faith -- principles by which for centuries they have been disciplined, and every opposer and denier of which they have come to regard as infidel, profligate and wicked, -- they would of a certainty be veiled and hindered from acknowledging His truth. Such things are as clouds that veil the eyes of those whose inner being hath not tasted the Salsabil of detachment, nor drunk from the Kawthar of the knowledge of God. Such men, when acquainted with those circumstances, become so veiled that, without the least question, they pronounce the Manifestation of God as infidel, and sentence Him to death. You must have heard of such things taking place all down the ages, and are now observing them in these days. (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 26) XVI. Say: O men! This is a matchless Day. Matchless must, likewise, be the tongue that celebrateth the praise of the Desire of all nations, and matchless the deed that aspireth to be acceptable in His sight. The whole human race hath longed for this Day, that perchance it may fulfil that which well beseemeth its station, and is worthy of its destiny. Blessed is the man whom the affairs of the world have failed to deter from recognizing Him Who is the Lord of all things. So blind hath become the human heart that neither the disruption of the city, nor the reduction of the mountain in dust, nor even the cleaving of the earth, can shake off its torpor. The allusions made in the Scriptures have been unfolded, and the signs recorded therein have been revealed, and the prophetic cry is continually being raised. And yet all, except such as God was pleased to guide, are bewildered in the drunkenness of their heedlessness! Witness how the world is being afflicted with a fresh calamity every day. Its tribulation is continually deepening. From the moment the Suriy-i-Ra'is (Tablet to Ra'is) was revealed until the present day, neither hath the world been tranquillized, nor have the hearts of its peoples been at rest. At one time it hath been agitated by contentions and disputes, at another it hath been convulsed by wars, and fallen a victim to inveterate diseases. Its sickness is approaching the stage of utter hopelessness, inasmuch as the true Physician is debarred from administering the remedy, whilst unskilled practitioners are regarded with favor, and are accorded full freedom to act. ...The dust of sedition hath clouded the hearts of men, and blinded their eyes. Erelong, they will perceive the consequences of what their hands have wrought in the Day of God. Thus warneth you He Who is the All-Informed, as bidden by One Who is the Most Powerful, the Almighty. (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 39) LXX. The world's equilibrium hath been upset through the vibrating influence of this most great, this new World Order. Mankind's ordered life hath been revolutionized through the agency of this unique, this wondrous System -- the like of which mortal eyes have never witnessed.
RE: authenticity vs authoritative
Hi Mark! You wrote: However, Shoghi Effendi appears to have believed in degrees of authenticity. The Qur'an is more authentic (from a Baha'i, not necessarily an academic, viewpoint) than the Bible, just as the actual writings of Shoghi Effendi are more authentic than letters written on his behalf. authentic 1 obsolete : AUTHORITATIVE 2 a : worthy of acceptance or belief as conforming to or based on fact paints an authentic picture of our society b : conforming to an original so as to reproduce essential features an authentic reproduction of a colonial farmhouse c : made or done the same way as an original authentic Mexican fare 3 : not false or imitation : REAL, ACTUAL based on authentic documents an authentic cockney accent Lest there be any misunderstanding concerning the authority as opposed to authenticity of letters written on behalf of the Guardian I'm providing this link from a post to this list in April 2000 which includes this closing comment from the Research Department to the Universal House of Justice: From the above extracts it seems fairly clear that letters written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi related strictly to the Cause and interpretation of the teachings constitute authoritative Baha'i text, while any personal advice which they may contain is not binding. The Guardian's statement that he reviewed every letter written on his behalf without exception makes it clear that the authority of the letters was independent of whatever personal sufferings might have been caused by certain secretaries, and that there was no delegation whatsoever of his interpretative authority, but merely a use of secretarial assistance for his huge burden of correspondence. http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m16252.html Lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: ignorance or forgetfulness
Gilberto: Maybe it's just me, but from my perspective, humanity's biggest problem isn't ignorance as much as forgetfulness. As human beings, to a large degree I think we know what we ought to be doing. We know we shouldn't steal and murder. We know we shouldn't exploit and take advantage of other people. We know we should try to get along better with our fellow man. We know we should be more generous and fight less. We know we shouldn't lie. What we need is to figure out how to do the things we already know we are supposed to be doing. And I'm not persuaded that we need a new revelation in order to accomplish that. The contingent world is the source of imperfections: God is the origin of perfections. The imperfections of the contingent world are in themselves a proof of the perfections of God. For example, when you look at man, you see that he is weak. This very weakness of the creature is a proof of the power of the Eternal Almighty One, because, if there were no power, weakness could not be imagined. Then the weakness of the creature is a proof of the power of God; for if there were no power, there could be no weakness; so from this weakness it becomes evident that there is power in the world. Again, in the contingent world there is poverty; then necessarily wealth exists, since poverty is apparent in the world. In the contingent world there is ignorance; necessarily knowledge exists, because ignorance is found; for if there were no knowledge, neither would there be ignorance. Ignorance is the nonexistence of knowledge, and if there were no existence, nonexistence could not be realized. (Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 5) Dear Gilberto, One cannot forget what they never knew. ; ) Literacy is an essential prerequisite in this Day. O SON OF SPIRIT! The best beloved of all things in My sight is Justice; turn not away therefrom if thou desirest Me, and neglect it not that I may confide in thee. By its aid thou shalt see with thine own eyes and not through the eyes of others, and shalt know of thine own knowledge and not through the knowledge of thy neighbor. Ponder this in thy heart; how it behooveth thee to be. Verily justice is My gift to thee and the sign of My loving-kindness. Set it then before thine eyes. (Baha'u'llah, The Arabic Hidden Words) Lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
The smell test...
Dear Gilberto, You wrote: But at the same time, among the many different religious discussions one can have, some smell different. Below is a excerpt from a brief compilation I did in 2003 which I think of as Baha'u'llah's smell test... References below. Lovingly, Sandra Glorified art Thou, O Lord my God! Rain down, I beseech Thee, from the clouds of Thine overflowing grace, that which shall cleanse the hearts of Thy servants from whatever may prevent their beholding Thy face, or may prevent them from turning unto Thee, that they may all recognize Him Who is their Fashioner and Creator. Help them, then, O God, to reach forth, through the power of Thy sovereign might, towards such a station that they can readily distinguish every foul smell from the fragrance of the raiment of Him Who is the Bearer of Thy most lofty and exalted name, that they may turn with all their affections toward Thee, and may enjoy such intimate communion with Thee that if all that is in heaven and on earth were given them they would regard it as unworthy of their notice, and would refuse to cease from remembering Thee and from extolling Thy virtues. (Baha'u'llah, Prayers and Meditations by Baha'u'llah, p. 159) We verily behold your actions. If We perceive from them the sweet smelling savor of purity and holiness, We will most certainly bless you. (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 307) We intend only to impart unto you the truth, that ye might be informed thereof and be of them that lead a godly life. Beware lest ye give ear to the words of those from whom the foul smell of malice and envy can be discerned; pay no heed to them, and stand ye for righteousness. (Baha'u'llah, The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p. 200) How vast the number of the loved and chosen ones of God who have lamented and moaned by day and by night that haply a sweet and fragrant breeze might blow from the court of His good-pleasure and dispel altogether the loathsome and foul-smelling odours from the world. However, this ultimate goal could not be attained, and men were deprived thereof by virtue of their evil deeds, which brought upon them the retribution of God, in accordance with the basic principles of His divine rule. Ours is the duty to remain patient in these circumstances until relief be forthcoming from God, the Forgiving, the Bountiful. (Baha'u'llah, Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 177) If Thou smellest from any one the smell of the love of Thy Lord, offer up Thyself for him, for We have created Thee to this end, and have covenanted with Thee, from time immemorial, and in the presence of the congregation of Our well-favored ones, for this very purpose. (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 283) Say: From My laws the sweet smelling savor of My garment can be smelled, and by their aid the standards of victory will be planted upon the highest peaks. The Tongue of My power hath, from the heaven of My omnipotent glory, addressed to My creation these words: Observe My commandments, for the love of My beauty. Happy is the lover that hath inhaled the divine fragrance of his Best-Beloved from these words, laden with the perfume of a grace which no tongue can describe. (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 332) __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Abdu'l-Baha's knowledge of English
Susan: Dear Ron and Sandra, I think Abdu'l-Baha's knowledge of English may well have been adequate to understand people without an interpreter much of the time, at least by the time He left America. I suspect speaking English back to them may have been more of a problem. But when a translator got it wrong, He was often able to correct them. I agree, and should have been clearer in my reply. I feel it wasn't so much a lack of understanding as fluency. I've been in two environments when I understood Spanish and later Inupiaq (in the last century) ...enough so that words were chosen carefully around me ; ) Still was not able to converse in those languages. Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Questions about Omniscience and related matters
SC: To my way of thinking to deny the Power of God to express His Will through a human Mouthpiece, as were all His Manifestations, is to deny all Creation. RS: How so? Inspite of all our [human] observations and subsequent replications of principles in Creation it only serves to remind us of our own limitations and the realization of a Power greater than any human endowment. Once this realization is attained it then becomes simply apparent that this Power is capable of anything within human imagination. RS: And it still violates Occam's Razor. That should concern me? There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. RS: Wouldn't it be a lot simpler to assume that Abdul Baha used an interpreter becuase he could't understand English well without one? Why else would Abdu'l-Baha use an interpreter ? Lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
re: Questions about Omniscience and related matters
Dear Brent, On this point I would disagree with you...; if you are saying Baha'u'llah did not see a Maiden and I believe that is what you are saying. Shoghi Effendi does not say the images were symbols conjured up by the Manifestations to relate Their experience. He says the images were symbols of the Most Great Spirit. I feel the Guardian is saying that although the images appeared in different forms they all were symbolically the ONE Most Great Spirit. My understanding is that the various images describe the form or appearance of the Most Great Spirit as visualized/imagined by each of the Manifestations. Lovingly, Sandra You wrote: It is my understanding that there was no Maiden. Shoghi Effendi writes of Baha'u'llah's vision of the Maiden in the Siyah-Chal that the Maiden, and all the other images used for the earlier Manifestations of God, were symbols: ...at so critical an hour and under such appalling circumstances the Most Great Spirit, as designated by Himself, and symbolized in the Zoroastrian, the Mosaic, the Christian, and Muhammadan Dispensations by the Sacred Fire, the Burning Bush, the Dove and the Angel Gabriel respectively, descended upon, and revealed itself, personated by a Maiden, to the agonized soul of Bahá'u'llá (Shoghi Effendi, God Passes By, p. 100) __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Perennial Bab?
So from the Bahai perspective, not only was Muhammad not the last prophet, but he wasn't even the last manifestation in the Prophetic Cycle? Dear Gilberto, In response to the above comment I would like to offer a personal observation: In relating the internment of the Báb's remains on Mt. Carmel, the Guardian referred to the Báb's life as standing at the confluence of TWO UNIVERSAL PROPHETIC CYCLES: Thus ended a life which posterity will recognize as standing at the confluence of two universal prophetic cycles, the Adamic Cycle stretching back as far as the first dawnings of the world's recorded religious history and the Bahá'í Cycle destined to propel itself across the unborn reaches of time for a period of no less than five thousand centuries. (Shoghi Effendi, God Passes By, p. 54) In several instances, Shoghi Effendi has referred to `Abdu'l-Bahá as the Pivot of Bahá'u'lláh's Covenant. He was the self acknowledged Servant of Baha - during the lifetime of Bahá'u'lláh and after His ascension. I think of the Báb as the pivot or as He is known, the Primal Point, (the Gate) between Cycles. This in no way diminishes His Revelation which was essential in this transition from one cycle to the next. lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Perennial Bab?
Gilberto: I think that if God is really speaking and a religion is worth its salt, it doesn't need to be replaced by another in order to progress. If the revelation is really inspired, then morally sensitive people from the particular religious tradiition can still go back to the revelation and apply the truth in ways which are appropriate for our times. from`Abdu'l-Bahá: . the Law of God is divided into two parts. One is the fundamental basis which comprises all spiritual things -- that is to say, it refers to the spiritual virtues and divine qualities; this does not change nor alter: it is the Holy of Holies, which is the essence of the Law of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Christ, Muhammad, the Báb, and Bahá'u'lláh, and WHICH LASTS and is established in ALL THE PROPHETIC CYCLES. It will NEVER BE ABROGATED, for it is spiritual and not material truth; it is faith, knowledge, certitude, justice, piety, righteousness, trustworthiness, love of God, benevolence, purity, detachment, humility, meekness, patience and constancy. It shows mercy to the poor, defends the oppressed, gives to the wretched and uplifts the fallen. These divine qualities, these eternal commandments, WILL NEVER BE ABOLISHED; nay, they will last and remain established for ever and ever. These virtues of humanity WILL BE RENEWED in each of the different cycles; for at the end of every cycle the spiritual Law of God -- that is to say, the human virtues -- disappears, and only the form subsists. . .These foundations of the Religion of God, which are spiritual and which are the virtues of humanity, cannot be abrogated; they are irremovable and eternal, and are renewed in the cycle of every Prophet. The second part of the Religion of God, which refers to the material world, and which comprises fasting, prayer, forms of worship, marriage and divorce, the abolition of slavery, legal processes, transactions, indemnities for murder, violence, theft and injuries -- this part of the Law of God, which refers to material things, is MODIFIED AND ALTERED IN EACH PROPHETIC CYCLE in accordance with the NECESSITIES of the times. (Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 46) (my caps) I would agree that the spiritual attributes of which humans are capable are eternally appropriate. However, the material (scientific) capabilities of humanity have advanced to such a degree (and, continue to do so) that it has become necessary to find solutions that will insure the continued survival of humanity, as inhabitants of one planet. lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Questions about Omniscience and related matters
Dear Ron, you wrote: Since every Manifestation acted consistently with natural law, and acted as if They were not omniscient and omnipotent, to believe that they were Omniscient and Omnipotent means believing that They lived their lives acting in a false way, in some cruel and sordid Joke pretending to be human in the real world when in reality They were Magicians above it all. To my way of thinking to deny the Power of God to express His Will through a human Mouthpiece, as were all His Manifestations, is to deny all Creation. Quaff ye in My name, despite them that have disbelieved in *God, the Lord of Revelation*... ... How great is their blessedness that they have attained unto *what their Lord, the Omniscient, the All-Wise, hath willed*. (Shoghi Effendi, [quoting Baha'u'llah] The Advent of Divine Justice, p. 76) Humility and human weakness in the Manifestations are further evidences of the compelling power of the Lord, God's Omnipotence. I am he, O my Lord, that hath confessed to Thee the multitude of his evil doings, that hath acknowledged what no man hath acknowledged. I have made haste to attain unto the ocean of Thy forgiveness, and have sought shelter beneath the shadow of Thy most gracious favor. Grant, I beseech Thee, O Thou Who art the Everlasting King and the Sovereign Protector of all men, that I may be enabled to manifest that which shall cause the hearts and souls of men to soar in the limitless immensity of Thy love, and to commune with Thy Spirit. Strengthen me through the power of Thy sovereignty, that I may turn all created things towards the Day Spring of Thy Manifestation and the Source of Thy Revelation. Aid me, O my Lord, to surrender myself wholly to Thy Will, and to arise and serve Thee, for I cherish this earthly life for no other purpose than to compass the Tabernacle of Thy Revelation and the Seat of Thy Glory. Thou seest me, O my God, detached from all else but Thee, and humble and subservient to Thy Will. Deal with me as it beseemeth Thee, and as it befitteth Thy highness and great glory. (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 311) Omniscient at will.. Whose will? Baha'u'llah prayed: Aid me, O my Lord, to surrender myself wholly to Thy Will. The Person of the Manifestation hath ever been the representative and mouthpiece of God. He, in truth, is the Day Spring of God's most excellent Titles, and the Dawning-Place of His exalted Attributes. If any be set up by His side as peers, if they be regarded as identical with His Person, how can it, then, be maintained that the Divine Being is One and Incomparable, that His Essence is indivisible and peerless? Meditate on that which We have, through the power of truth, revealed unto thee, and be thou of them that comprehend its meaning. (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 69) Consider, therefore, how the generality of mankind, whatever their beliefs or theories, have recognized the excellence, and admitted the superiority, of these Prophets of God. These Gems of Detachment are acclaimed by some as the embodiments of wisdom, while others believe them to be the *mouthpiece of God Himself*. How could such Souls have consented to surrender themselves unto their enemies if they believed all the worlds of God to have been reduced to this earthly life? Would they have willingly suffered such afflictions and torments as no man hath ever experienced or witnessed? (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 158) LXXIV. Every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God is endowed with such potency as can instill new life into every human frame, if ye be of them that comprehend this truth. All the wondrous works ye behold in this world have been manifested through the operation of His supreme and most exalted Will, His wondrous and inflexible Purpose. Through the mere revelation of the word Fashioner, issuing forth from His lips and proclaiming His attribute to mankind, such power is released as can generate, through successive ages, all the manifold arts which the hands of man can produce. This, verily, is a certain truth. No sooner is this resplendent word uttered, than its animating energies, stirring within all created things, give birth to the means and instruments whereby such arts can be produced and perfected. All the wondrous achievements ye now witness are the direct consequences of the Revelation of this Name. In the days to come, ye will, verily, behold things of which ye have never heard before. Thus hath it been decreed in the Tablets of God, and none can comprehend it except them whose sight is sharp. In like manner, the moment the word expressing My attribute The Omniscient issueth forth from My mouth, every created thing will, according to its capacity and limitations, be invested with the power to unfold the knowledge of the most marvelous sciences, and will be empowered to
Re: Perennial Bab?
Dear Gliberto, I wrote: I would agree that the spiritual attributes of which humans are capable are eternally appropriate. However, the material (scientific) capabilities of humanity have advanced to such a degree (and, continue to do so) that it has become necessary to find solutions that will insure the continued survival of humanity, as inhabitants of one planet. You responded: I would just think that the material aspect of the Law can be dealt with without converting to a different religoin. At least in terms of islamic law, you have living scholars who can arrive at rulings by understanding the principles of the Quran and sunnah and understanding the realities of contemporary life. I'm not sure if you have any particular changes in technology or social organization in mind which you think Islam would have trouble keeping up with. Forgive me for responding with questions, however, I'm not familiar enough with the judicial structure of Islam, or it's authority, to make a comparison. Does the Quranic scripture grant such prerogatives to scholars? By what method are the qualified separated from those less qualified? Is there a Quranic mandate for acceptance of their rulings? Lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Clarification and Progressive Revelation and Peace
I wrote: So, essentially, the position of Baha'u'llah's followers is the same as Abel's: If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear Allah, the cherisher of the worlds. We practice non-resistance in the face of religious persecution because we fear Allah... And, Dear Gilberto, you responded: The point I was making with the Cain and Abel story is that Muslims didn'thave to wait for the Bahahi faith to come allow non-resistance. This message is already contained within the Quran from a certain point of view. I'm sorry if it seemed I missed your point... I completely understood that Muhammed reinterated that story of Cain and Abel to emphasize the value in non-resistance as exemplified by Abel. And, yes, it has been there for all to see and follow. And, before Him, Christ: Matthew 5:17-22 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. We have this from - God Passes By - written by the Guardian, Shoghi Effendi: The ascendancy achieved by Bahá'u'lláh was nowhere better demonstrated than in His ability to broaden the outlook and transform the character of the community to which He belonged. Though Himself nominally a Bábí, though the provisions of the Bayan were still regarded as binding and inviolable, He was able to inculcate a standard which, while not incompatible with its tenets, was ethically superior to the loftiest principles which the Bábí Dispensation had established. The salutary and fundamental truths advocated by the Báb, that had either been obscured, neglected or misrepresented, were moreover elucidated by Bahá'u'lláh, reaffirmed and instilled afresh into the corporate life of the community, and into the souls of the individuals who comprised it. The dissociation of the Bábí Faith from every form of political activity and from all secret associations and factions; the emphasis placed on the principle of non-violence; the necessity of strict obedience to established authority; the ban imposed on all forms of sedition, on back-biting, retaliation, and dispute; the stress laid on godliness, kindliness, humility and piety, on honesty and truthfulness, chastity and fidelity, on justice, toleration, sociability, amity and concord, on the acquisition of arts and sciences, on self-sacrifice and detachment, on patience, steadfastness and resignation to the will of God -- all these constitute the salient features of a code of ethical conduct to which the books, treatises and epistles, revealed during those years, by the indefatigable pen of Bahá'u'lláh, unmistakably bear witness. (Shoghi Effendi, God Passes By, p. 132-33) My point was that the story also clearly demonstrates the Baha'i position on non-resistance in the presence of religious persecution. That would be retaliation and would serve no purpose.Through non-resistance we become an instrument of God's Justice - even if it means sacrificing our life, as Abel did. And, also this, from Baha'u'llah. O friends! Help ye the one true God, exalted be His glory, by your goodly deeds, by such conduct and character as shall be acceptable in His sight. He that seeketh to be a helper of God in this Day, let him close his eyes to whatever he may possess, and open them to the things of God. Let him cease to occupy himself with that which profiteth him, and concern himself with that which shall exalt the all-compelling name of the Almighty. He should cleanse his heart from all evil passions and corrupt desires, for THE FEAR OF GOD IS THE WEAPON THAT CAN RENDER HIM VICTORIOUS, the primary instrument whereby he can achieve his purpose. The FEAR OF GOD IS THE SHIELD THAT DEFENDETH HIS CAUSE, the buckler that enableth His people to attain to victory. It is a standard that no man can abase, a force that no power can rival. By its aid, and by the leave of Him Who is the Lord of Hosts, they that have drawn
Article: -When Islam Breaks Down-
Here is a link to a thought provoking article in light of recent discussions on the list. I would be interested in any comments, particularly with regard to prevalence of arranged marriages in current Muslim society. Sandra -When Islam Breaks Down- By: Theodore Dalrymple - City Journal Spring 2004 http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_2_when_islam.html __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Progressive Revelation
Dear Susan, You wrote: It is just that the term itself is derived from Christianity. Well, I'm not convinced it didn't originate with Baha'u'llah... OK, call me a die-hard! ; ) The Guardian translated Gleanings, published in 1952. So, conceding that the actual phrase originated with him ... I'd now be interested in knowing when and why (to whom) the original passage was written. I don't find it in any other books. With regard to the Christian connection, both The Approaching End of The Age, by H. Grattan Guinness in 1879 AD (referenced by Khazeh) and The Bible: A Progressive Revelation by S.L. Morgan, Sr. in the 1950's (referenced by Mark) were both written after the Declaration of Baha'u'llah. Whoso reciteth, in the privacy of his chamber, the verses revealed by God, the scattering angels of the Almighty shall scatter abroad the fragrance of the words uttered by his mouth, and shall cause the heart of every righteous man to throb. Though he may, at first, remain unaware of its effect, yet the virtue of the grace vouchsafed unto him must needs sooner or later exercise its influence upon his soul. (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 294) There is also the world order phrase bantered about in recent years and will no doubt also be attributed to originating in the 20th Century; however, we also have this from Baha'u'llah and translated by the Guardian: LXX. The world's equilibrium hath been upset through the vibrating influence of this most great, this new World Order. Mankind's ordered life hath been revolutionized through the agency of this unique, this wondrous System -- the like of which mortal eyes have never witnessed. (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 136) lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Progressive Revelation
Dear Gilberto, If I may, I would like to interject that progressive Revelation is not some catch-phrase that Baha'is have adopted to validate a belief. The term was first used by Baha'u'llah in the following quote and expanded in the second quote from Kitab-i-Aqdas footnotes: XXXI. Contemplate with thine inward eye the chain of successive Revelations that hath linked the Manifestation of Adam with that of the Báb. I testify before God that each one of these Manifestations hath been sent down through the operation of the Divine Will and Purpose, that each hath been the bearer of a specific Message, that each hath been entrusted with a divinely-revealed Book and been commissioned to unravel the mysteries of a mighty Tablet. The measure of the Revelation with which every one of them hath been identified had been definitely fore-ordained. This, verily, is a token of Our favor unto them, if ye be of those that comprehend this truth And when this process of progressive Revelation culminated in the stage at which His peerless, His most sacred, and exalted Countenance was to be unveiled to men's eyes, He chose to hide His own Self behind a thousand veils, lest profane and mortal eyes discover His glory. This He did at a time when the signs and tokens of a divinely-appointed Revelation were being showered upon Him -- signs and tokens which none can reckon except the Lord, your God, the Lord of all worlds. (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 74) 126. Various petitions have come before Our throne from the believers, concerning laws from God... We have, in consequence, revealed this Holy Tablet and arrayed it with the mantle of His Law that haply the people may keep the commandments of their Lord. # 98 For a number of years, Bahá'u'lláh states in one of His Tablets, petitions reached the Most Holy Presence from various lands begging for the laws of God, but We held back the Pen ere the appointed time had come. Not until twenty years from the birth of His Prophetic Mission in the Siyah-Chal of Tihran had elapsed did Bahá'u'lláh reveal the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, the Repository of the laws of His Dispensation. Even after its revelation the Aqdas was withheld by Him for some time before it was sent to the friends in Persia. This divinely purposed delay in the revelation of the basic laws of God for this age, and the subsequent gradual implementation of their provisions, illustrate the principle of progressive revelation which applies even within the ministry of each Prophet. (Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 219 [NOTES]) lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: Progressive Revelation
Dear Susan, Could you be a bit more explicit about this theory, as I'm not familiar with any possible source in Christian theology. ...he in turn, seems to have gotten it from Christian theology While I'm open to a broader understanding of the term, I feel that because the passage from Baha'u'llah opens with : Contemplate with thine inward eye the chain of successive Revelations that hath linked the Manifestation of Adam with that of the Báb.; He is indeed referring to the progressive (sequential advancing) revelations of the Manifestations of God. Granted, the Guardian elaborates on the progressive aspects of the Revelation as received by Baha'u'llah. Thanks much! lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Eternal Truth -1-
But hear, O My brother, My plaint against them that claim to be associated with God and with the Manifestations of His knowledge, and yet follow their corrupt inclinations, consume the substance of their neighbour, are given to wine, commit murder, defraud and slander each other, hurl calumnies against God, and are wont to speak falsely. The people attribute all these deeds unto Us, whilst their perpetrators remain shameless before God. They cast aside that which He hath enjoined upon them and commit that which He hath forbidden. Yet it behoveth the people of truth that the signs of humility should shine upon their faces, that the light of sanctity should radiate from their countenances, that they should walk upon the earth as though they were in the presence of God and distinguish themselves in their deeds from all the dwellers of the earth. Such must be their state that their eyes should behold the evidences of His might, their tongues and hearts make mention of His name, their feet be set towards the lands of His nearness, and their hands take fast hold upon His precepts. And were they to pass through a valley of pure gold and mines of precious silver, they should regard them as wholly unworthy of their attention. These people, however, have turned aside from all this and placed instead their affections upon that which accordeth with their own corrupt inclinations. Thus do they roam in the wilderness of arrogance and pride. I bear witness at this moment that God is wholly quit of them, and likewise are We. We beseech God to suffer Us not to associate with them either in this life or in the life to come. He, verily, is the Eternal Truth. No God is there but Him, and His might is equal to all things. (Baha'u'llah, Gems of Divine Mysteries, p. 60) Every eye, in this Day, should seek what will best promote the Cause of God. He, Who is the Eternal Truth, beareth Me witness! Nothing whatsoever can, in this Day, inflict a greater harm upon this Cause than dissension and strife, contention, estrangement and apathy, among the loved ones of God. Flee them, through the power of God and His sovereign aid, and strive ye to knit together the hearts of men, in His Name, the Unifier, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. Beseech ye the one true God to grant that ye may taste the savor of such deeds as are performed in His path, and partake of the sweetness of such humility and submissiveness as are shown for His sake. Forget your own selves, and turn your eyes towards your neighbor. Bend your energies to whatever may foster the education of men. Nothing is, or can ever be, hidden from God. If ye follow in His way, His incalculable and imperishable blessings will be showered upon you. This is the luminous Tablet, whose verses have streamed from the moving Pen of Him Who is the Lord of all worlds. Ponder it in your hearts, and be ye of them that observe its precepts. (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 9) Ponder a while. What is it that prompted, in every Dispensation, the peoples of the earth to shun the Manifestation of the All-Merciful? What could have impelled them to turn away from Him and to challenge His authority? Were men to meditate on these words which have flowed from the Pen of the Divine Ordainer, they would, one and all, hasten to embrace the truth of this God-given, and ever-enduring Revelation, and would testify to that which He Himself hath solemnly affirmed. It is the veil of idle imaginations which, in the days of the Manifestations of the Unity of God and the Day Springs of His everlasting glory, hath intervened, and will continue to intervene, between them and the rest of mankind. For in those days, He Who is the Eternal Truth manifesteth Himself in conformity with that which He Himself hath purposed, and not according to the desires and expectations of men. Even as He hath revealed: So oft, then, as an Apostle cometh to you with that which your souls desire not, do ye swell with pride, and treat some as impostors, and slay others. There can be no doubt whatever that had these Apostles appeared, in bygone ages and cycles, in accordance with the vain imaginations which the hearts of men had devised, no one would have repudiated the truth of these sanctified Beings. Though such men have been, night and day, remembering the one true God, and have been devoutly engaged in the exercise of their devotions, yet they failed in the end to recognize, and partake of the grace of, the Day Springs of the signs of God and the Manifestations of His irrefutable evidences. To this the Scriptures bear witness. Thou hast, no doubt, heard about it. (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 82) __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use
Eternal Truth -2-
Though the purpose of Him Who is the Eternal Truth hath been to confer everlasting life upon all men, and ensure their security and peace, yet witness how they have arisen to shed the blood of His loved ones, and have pronounced on Him the sentence of death. (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 115) Whoso hath, in this Day, refused to allow the doubts and fancies of men to turn him away from Him Who is the Eternal Truth, and hath not suffered the tumult provoked by the ecclesiastical and secular authorities to deter him from recognizing His Message, such a man will be regarded by God, the Lord of all men, as one of His mighty signs, and will be numbered among them whose names have been inscribed by the Pen of the Most High in His Book. Blessed is he that hath recognized the true stature of such a soul, that hath acknowledged its station, and discovered its virtues. Much hath been written in the books of old concerning the various stages in the development of the soul, such as concupiscence, irascibility, inspiration, benevolence, contentment, Divine good-pleasure, and the like; the Pen of the Most High, however, is disinclined to dwell upon them. Every soul that walketh humbly with its God, in this Day, and cleaveth unto Him, shall find itself invested with the honor and glory of all goodly names and stations. (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 159) He Who is the Eternal Truth is the one Power Who exerciseth undisputed sovereignty over the world of being, Whose image is reflected in the mirror of the entire creation. All existence is dependent upon Him, and from Him is derived the source of the sustenance of all things. This is what is meant by Divine unity; this is its fundamental principle. Some, deluded by their idle fancies, have conceived all created things as associates and partners of God, and imagined themselves to be the exponents of His unity. By Him Who is the one true God! Such men have been, and will continue to remain, the victims of blind imitation, and are to be numbered with them that have restricted and limited the conception of God. (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 166) Say: Observe equity in your judgment, ye men of understanding heart! He that is unjust in his judgment is destitute of the characteristics that distinguish man's station. He Who is the Eternal Truth knoweth well what the breasts of men conceal. His long forbearance hath emboldened His creatures, for not until the appointed time is come will He rend any veil asunder. His surpassing mercy hath restrained the fury of His wrath, and caused most people to imagine that the one true God is unaware of the things they have privily committed. By Him Who is the All-Knowing, the All-Informed! The mirror of His knowledge reflecteth, with complete distinctness, precision and fidelity, the doings of all men. Say: Praise be to Thee, O Concealer of the sins of the weak and helpless! Magnified be Thy name, O Thou that forgivest the heedless ones that trespass against Thee! (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 204) Grieve thou not over those that have busied themselves with the things of this world, and have forgotten the remembrance of God, the Most Great. By Him Who is the Eternal Truth! The day is approaching when the wrathful anger of the Almighty will have taken hold of them. He, verily, is the Omnipotent, the All-Subduing, the Most Powerful. He shall cleanse the earth from the defilement of their corruption, and shall give it for an heritage unto such of His servants as are nigh unto Him. (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 208) All men have been created to carry forward an ever-advancing civilization. The Almighty beareth Me witness: To act like the beasts of the field is unworthy of man. Those virtues that befit his dignity are forbearance, mercy, compassion and loving-kindness towards all the peoples and kindreds of the earth. Say: O friends! Drink your fill from this crystal stream that floweth through the heavenly grace of Him Who is the Lord of Names. Let others partake of its waters in My name, that the leaders of men in every land may fully recognize the purpose for which the Eternal Truth hath been revealed, and the reason for which they themselves have been created. (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 215) __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old
Re: posting question about Recognition Manifestation
Dear Fariborz, However, taken as a general mandate, one can interpret whosoever ariseth for the triumph of My cause can be interpreted as fellow believers as well. I would agree with this. Again, with the qualification of encouragement and support rather than serve. To be more explicit: we can serve the Cause by encouraging and supporting (through combined effort; financially, etc.) other believers who arise... i.e.: pioneers, travel teachers, institutions, etc. I am not sure I would interpret the statement to mean a king that may embrace the principles but not recognize manifestation? Can you expound please? Hu, firstly, Baha'u'llah did not -place upon- the king the condition of recognition or acceptance of the Manifestation or Revelation. Secondly, the prerequisite Baha'u'llah does establish is that such a king ...will, for the sake of God, arise for the triumph of this wronged, this oppressed people. (of the Earth) Third, it's as though, Baha'u'llah then assures the king/s that His followers (Baha'is) will promote (assist, encourage, support, etc.) that effort. The last two sentences of this passage, I feel, IS addressed to the Baha'is: Happy is the man that hearkeneth and observeth My counsel. Woe unto him that faileth to fulfil My wish. It is as though He is saying I'm making this commitment on your behalf... do not disappoint Me! On a much smaller scale... for several years the Baha'is of a large Alaskan community annually recognized an individual in the community-at-large who, through selfless devotion, rendered a service to the community. They were honored with a banquet and received a plaque. These were well publicized events and appreciated by the recipients as well as their family, friends, and colleagues; and the general public. To my knowledge, only one of these recipients, later embraced the Faith. lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: posting question about Recognition Manifestation
Dear Fariborz, Knowing how frustrating it can be to retrieve a special quote, I'm happy this is what you were looking for. However, if I may, I'd like to point out - in consideration of language barriers - And, without doubt you are much further advanced than I in mastering languages... To: ...promote the welfare... of Such a king (or leader} -who may embrace the Principles of the Faith and yet, not recognize the manifestation IS NOT the same as your reference To: ...one should serve those that believe... Without doubt we should encourage, support and honor such efforts -those that uplift the oppressed of humanity. Remembering that this particular passage is addressed to the Kings of the Earth. lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: structurizationism
Richard, you wrote: What human structurization could be named or labeled 'emanation'? to which Mark responded: IMO, emanation is a divine structurization for the particulars, the created beings, which God emanates. I agree with Mark's comment (fortunately, so does Abdu'l-Baha... see SAQ pgs: 202-208. Nonetheless, in consideration of a human structurization that could/might be labeled I would say that would be UNITY. Lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: posting question about Recognition Manifestation
Dear Fariborz, Personally, I cannot recall a phrase which implies ...after the Recognition one should serve those that believe... The closest would be directives to the Institutions to serve the servants. Otherwise, those references to serve that I've located seem to address the willingness to serve humanity (if you will) and exemplify the Teachings by our deeds. Service in isolation would not achieve the aim of sharing the Revelation of Baha'u'llah by word or deed, as appealing as that might be! lovingly, Sandra A few more quotes: A DESCRIPTION OF THE KITAB-I-AQDAS BY SHOGHI EFFENDI TAKEN FROM GOD PASSES BY, HIS HISTORY OF THE FIRST BAHÁ'Í CENTURY (Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 11) . Bahá'u'lláh exhorts His followers to consort, with amity and concord and without discrimination, with the adherents of all religions; warns them to guard against fanaticism, sedition, pride, dispute and contention; inculcates upon them immaculate cleanliness, strict truthfulness, spotless chastity, trustworthiness, hospitality, fidelity, courtesy, forbearance, justice and fairness; counsels them to be even as the fingers of one hand and the limbs of one body; calls upon them to arise and serve His Cause; and assures them of His undoubted aid. (Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 14) We cherish the hope that one of the kings of the earth will, for the sake of God, arise for the triumph of this wronged, this oppressed people. Such a king will be eternally extolled and glorified. God hath prescribed unto this people the duty of aiding whosoever will aid them, of serving his best interests, and of demonstrating to him their abiding loyalty. They who follow Me must strive, under all circumstances, to promote the welfare of whosoever will arise for the triumph of My Cause, and must at all times prove their devotion and fidelity unto him. Happy is the man that hearkeneth and observeth My counsel. Woe unto him that faileth to fulfil My wish. (Baha'u'llah, The Proclamation of Baha'u'llah, p. 13-15) The fourth Glad-Tidings Should any of the kings -- may God aid them -- arise to protect and help this oppressed people, all must vie with one another in loving and in serving him. This matter is incumbent upon everyone. Well is it with them that act accordingly. (Baha'u'llah, Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 22) O peoples of the world! Forsake all evil, hold fast that which is good. Strive to be shining examples unto all mankind, and true reminders of the virtues of God amidst men. He that riseth to serve My Cause should manifest My wisdom, and bend every effort to banish ignorance from the earth. Be united in counsel, be one in thought. Let each morn be better than its eve and each morrow richer than its yesterday. Man's merit lieth in service and virtue and not in the pageantry of wealth and riches. Take heed that your words be purged from idle fancies and worldly desires and your deeds be cleansed from craftiness and suspicion. Dissipate not the wealth of your precious lives in the pursuit of evil and corrupt affection, nor let your endeavours be spent in promoting your personal interest. Be generous in your days of plenty, and be patient in the hour of loss. Adversity is followed by success and rejoicings follow woe. Guard against idleness and sloth, and cling unto that which profiteth mankind, whether young or old, whether high or low. Beware lest ye sow tares of dissension among men or plant thorns of doubt in pure and radiant hearts. (Baha'u'llah, Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 138) Arise thou to serve the Cause of thy Lord; then give the people the joyful tidings concerning this resplendent Light whose revelation hath been announced by God through His Prophets and Messengers. Admonish everyone moreover to observe prudence as ordained by Him, and in the Name of God advise them, saying: It behoveth every one in this Day of God to dedicate himself to the teaching of the Cause with utmost prudence and steadfastness. Should he discover a pure soil, let him sow the seed of the Word of God, otherwise it would be preferable to observe silence. (Baha'u'llah, Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 242) __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Modified Abstract
Mark: As I am using these terms, naming particulars by attribution would be identical to universals or structurization. For instance, gender is a result of attributing characteristics to people defined (rightly or wrongly) as being one sex or the other. (I say rightly or wrongly since there is no general agreement among sexologists as to the number of sexes. Some say one. Others, two. Still others, five.) This process of attribution, naming, or structurization, in connection with other acts of structurization, socially constructs our lifeworlds. Okay! It is fair to say that the process isn't without error... (haven't read Hacking...obviously) So, how do we reconcile that with Divine Will - which is infallible? (In terms of Naming...) lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Modified Abstract
Hi Mark, To Richard you wrote: Reality is constructed through the dynamic process of naming. By Reality do you iintend percieved reality ? And, if so, can it be assumed that the process of naming is based on recognizable attributes of a particular or universal ? (and because Reality as percieved by most humans is relative ... Well, you know...) Your modified abstract states: The problems of realism, nominalism, particularism, and conceptualism are transcended by defining universals as **names** for structurizations, and structurizations within structurizations, considered as belonging to the same category (such as society). Particulars, not structurizations or universals, are realities. lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Modified Abstract
Yes, any system is, in my view, constructed through naming. In this case, naming refers to the *attribution* of characteristics. Hi Mark, Could you give an example of naming by attribution in each - Particulars; Universals; and Structurizations... And, include: who/what is measuring/evaluating the characteristics of each to warrant the attribution? You no doubt recognize I don't have the ability to challenge you on this... but, I fear if I were in your position I'd be painting myself into the proverbial corner. Therefore, I'm intrigued and curious to see where your theory leads... Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Modified Abstract
Hi Mark You wrote: What I am trying to do is to distinguish between particulars, universals (or categories), and structurizations: This came across clearly in the modified abstract. First time around I was completely lost... The 1st paragraph of the modified was for me a conglomeration of words outside my normal vocabulary - but I was confident that your target audience would know what you were talking about... Then, to my surprise, I completely understood the remaining 4 paragraphs... especially from a Baha'i perspective... In thelast paragraph you mention individualized spirits in the vegetable kingdom. I'm particularly curious how youmight makea connectionbetween the cohesion in the mineral kingdom (and particulars in vegetable kingdom) both of which are ordained through Divine will and NOT particular/individualwill; and, that of the human species -who has yet to arrive at cohesion through "freewill" alone... lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Modified Abstract
Hi (again) Mark, You wrote to Richard: IMO, the different evolutions are dynamic structurizations. I agree with this also. My personal feeling is that Creation in all it's forms was structuralized (your terminology) ...normally, I would say: set in motion... by the One Creator we know as God. While all known existence has a motivating spirit only the human species was endowed with cognition through a rational mind and soul in additin to spirit. Having that capacity, humans are able to exercise free will. In doing so, they/we can change the dynamics of structuralization in all earthly kingdoms. The mineral, vegetable, and animal kingdoms excercise (if you will) Radiant Acquiesence without cognition! Only humans, having the blessing and burden of knowledge, must distinguish between following Divine Will or assuming partnership. The choices we make whether as individuals, particulars or as a structured society are a reflection of the ability (singularly or collectively) to recongnize Divine Will. And, that can only be achieved in limited degrees through the Revelations of the Manifestations of God. lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Meaning of Arabic word...
Anyone out there who could give me the meaning of this word which I believe is Arabic... ?? 'aamiyyah or as a name Amiyah My daughter gave (premature) birth to a 3 lb. baby girl the 22nd. and has named her Amiyah she said she met someone years ago with that name and always anticipated giving the name to a daughter. She didn't know the origin. I've done some research and found both spellings on the internet all indicating an Arabic connection. Baby and mother doing well... no serious complications, thankfully. lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe digest
__ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Reflections re:hyperbole
we must accept that they are realities that cannot be defined in a rigourous manner, as one would attempt to define the terms of mathematics or even of philosophy. This is a realm of knowledge in which poetry, analogy, hyperbole and paradox are to be expected; a realm in which the Manifestations themselves speak with many voices (From a letter on behalf of the Universal House of Justice, dated 15 October 1992). Dear Susan, Thank you for providing this. I would completely agree that there ...are realities that cannot be defined... and which the Manifestations of God have found indescribeable. The following quote provides such an example, from Baha'u'llah: We will now mention unto thee Trustworthiness and the station thereof in the estimation of God, thy Lord, the Lord of the Mighty Throne. One day of days We repaired unto Our Green Island. Upon Our arrival, We beheld its streams flowing, and its trees luxuriant, and the sunlight playing in their midst. Turning Our face to the right, We beheld what the pen is powerless to describe; nor can it set forth that which the eye of the Lord of Mankind witnessed in that most sanctified, that most sublime, that blest, and most exalted Spot. Turning, then, to the left We gazed on one of the Beauties of the Most Sublime Paradise, standing on a pillar of light, and calling aloud saying: 'O inmates of earth and heaven! Behold ye My beauty, and My radiance, and My revelation, and My effulgence. By God, the True One! I am Trustworthiness and the revelation thereof, and the beauty thereof. (Baha'u'llah, Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, p. 136) Lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: hyperbole,
Dear Mark, Well Merriam-Webster (you know her, I'm sure... one of my dearest friends!) says: hyperbole: extravagant exaggeration (as mile-high ice-cream cones) So my conclusion is that the hyperbole would be in the WHAT [cannibalism] not the WHO [Africans]. In the quotes from SAQ, Abdu'l-Baha qualifies the WHO as those who become(s) bestial; under the rule of nature; then, but men, in the Sudan - WHO -some men, WHERE? Sudan. He is not saying everyone in that particular place does this... By naming the WHERE, He grants the hearer with enough information to verify His statement. A man who has not had a spiritual education is a brute. Now, this MAY be a slight generalization... I've known a few men who were exposed to a spiritual education and were still brutes. The remainder of that quote could be a reference back to the earlier more specific statement. The SDC quote might be a little problematic, when one thinks of our own efforts to uplift the social and economic needs in 3rd world countries. It's back to purity of motive ... I think. Lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: hyperbole
Sacred cows make the best hamburger Hasan wrote: This could be a hyperbole for people who eat meat. You wrote: Even more so for vegetarians. ;-) Hi Mark, Wouldn't that be satire -coming from a vegetarian? Merriam says: satire: 1 : a literary work holding up human vices and follies to ridicule or scorn 2 : trenchant wit, irony, or sarcasm used to expose and discredit vice or folly Lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: hyperbole
Dear Mark, Some more hyperbole for you... Pygmies being eaten by rebels in Congo's ongoing war, UN reveals The Scotsman - January 9, 2003 http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=25452003 still... Lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Reflection
Dear Hasan, Somehow, I missed some of Susan M. comments. No doubt she has insights into the historical aspects that are beyond my expertise, ... what an understatement ! As we study the Writings all of us are striving to glean whatever spiritual implications we might apply to our own spiritual growth. The beauty of sharing opinions (acquired knowledge) and insights (intuitive understanding) is that our perspective is expanded and we see the many facets of truth. Lovingly, Sandra PS: Thanks to both you and Brent for all the references you sent on re: under/upper world. Busy time. May comment further after I read everything... __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Counsellor Birkland's talk -ABS Conference
Hi Susan, Thanks so much for posting Counsellor Birkland's talk! We love him here in Alaska. Whenever he visits it's like having a member of the family return home... Such a loving and genuine person to know. I was prompted to check out the "menu" for this year's Conference and was delighted that there will be so many I've met or would enjoy meeting - yourself included. It may mean postponing some work on the house - but, I'm eager to attend, so I'm working on a plan... Lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Merchants of Babylon
Patti Goebel wrote: Speaking of Babylon, the symbolic city of corrupted religion, John writes: . . . thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth. 18:23-24 Dear Patti, I'm inclined to agree with you that there is more to this verse than is evident at first glance. Their occupation was not so important as the status awarded them. Consequently these merchants were viewed as great men. No doubt admired and envied, perhaps, because they would be perceived as knowledgable; well traveled and well informed. I suspect they would have been sought out and patronized as much for their news as their merchandise. They would be positioned to have tremendous influence. Pretty heady stuff! .and we know where that can lead. Thanks for sharing your thoughts! Lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Rev. 11:3
Dear Ahang, You commented: Again, this was in fulfilment of Qur'anic prophecy about the two liars (the Bab and Quddus) and the third one (Baha'u'llah). Could you please provide chapter and verse in the Quran ? Gratefully, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fw: Null hypothesis
Dear Richard,Today reading your post I concluded that I have a very simplemind, indeed! What you were suggesting from the followingverse has never occurred to me in over 30 years..."Say O people, if ye deny these verses, by what proof have yebelieved in God? Produce it, O Assemblage of false ones"I've always read this verse as a challenge to the deniers tolook within themselves and pose the question "Why do I believein God?"In the early 70's I attended a 9 day Institute where weimmersed ourselves in The Seven Valleys and The Four Valleys.From that time, I've sensed a parallel between the above versefrom the Tablet of Ahmad; and this one, quoting Rumi,in TheSeven Valleys p.20:"Yea, to the beetle a sweet fragrance seemeth foul,and to the man sick of a rheum a pleasant perfume is asnaught.Wherefore, it hath been said for the guidance of the ignorant:Cleanse thou the rheum from out thine headAnd breathe the breath of God instead."The *proof* Bahá'u'lláh is asking for, I think, in my limitedcapacity and humble opinion, is the question: "Do you imagineyourself a true believer?... and if so, prove it!" The"burden of proof" lies within the individual to accept orreject the *truth* of the Revelation...Lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Infallibility of the Guardian Divine Guidance
Hi Dean, Well, here I go again... maybe this time I got it right! 88 GUARDIAN (Infallibility of the) The infallibility of the Guardian is confined to matters which are related strictly to the Cause and interpretation of the teachings; he is not an infallible authority on other subjects, such as economics, science, etc. When he feels that a certain thing is essential for the protection of the Cause, even if it is something that affects a person personally, he must be obeyed, but when he gives advice, such as that he gave you in a previous letter about your future, it is not binding; you are free to follow it or not as you please. (Shoghi Effendi, Directives from the Guardian, p. 33-34) 89 GUIDANCE, DIVINE (Of Guardian) He feels that if ... ponders more deeply about the fundamentals of Divine Revelation, she will also come to understand the Guardianship. Once the mind and heart have grasped the fact that God guides men through a Mouthpiece, a human being, a Prophet, infallible and unerring, it is only a logical projection of this acceptance to also accept the station of 'Abdu'l-Bahá and the Guardians. The Guardians are the evidence of the maturity of mankind in the sense that at long last men have progressed to the point of having one world, and of needing one world management for human affairs. In the spiritual realm they have also reached the point where God could leave, in human hands (i.e. the Guardians) guided directly by the Báb and Bahá'u'lláh, as the Master states in His Will, the affairs of His Faith for this Dispensation. This is what is meant by 'this is the day which will not be followed by night.' In this Dispensation, divine guidance flows on to us in this world after the Prophet's ascension, through first the Master, and then the Guardians. If a person can accept Bahá'u'lláh's function, it should not present any difficulty to them to also accept what He has ordained in a Divinely guided individual in matters pertaining to the Faith. (Shoghi Effendi, Directives from the Guardian, p. 34) Lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Letters of the Living
David wrote: It's a pity the Bab didn't address them by name! However, David, in -God Passes By-, Shoghi Effendi indicates that the Bab DID address each of them *by name - the names bestowed on them by Baha'u'llah in Badasht. This is not to say all 18 were present; as the Guardian doesn't state that specifically.'' ... By these names they were all subsequently addressed by the Báb in the Tablets He revealed for each one of them. (Shoghi Effendi, God Passes By, p. 32) Lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Letters of the Living
Dear Ahang (and David)...
Thank you for the clarification Ahang! Particularly, because
in God Passes By - not a translation... ;- ) - the Guardian
mentions several individuals who, in context, could to be
understood as among the Letters of the Living - on pages
10-24.
I can't help wondering; being generally confused by
Persian/Arabic names and titles, if some of these individuals
are in fact one person with different names.
On each of the twenty-two days of His sojourn in that hamlet
He revealed a Tablet, which was chanted in the presence of the
assembled believers. On every believer He conferred a new
name, without, however, disclosing the identity of the one who
had bestowed it. He Himself was henceforth designated by the
name Baha. Upon the Last Letter of the Living was conferred
the appellation of Quddus, while Qurratu'l-'Ayn was given the
title of Tahirih. By these names they were all subsequently
addressed by the Báb in the Tablets He revealed for each one
of them. (Shoghi Effendi, God Passes By, p. 32)
Ahang, can you offer an opinion on how identification of the
Eighteen might be resolved eventually? {...thinking of the
Twenty-four Elders)
Lovingly, Sandra
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Re: Terms vs. Concepts
A literal reading of _Some Answered Questions_ has led many Baha'is to assume that `Abdu'l-Baha was promoting what some have called parallel evolution, which is nearly identical to Christian old-earth creationism. Hi Mark, So... in contrast what do you assume / conclude about evolution as described by Abdu'l-Baha using alternative hermeneutic strategies? Certainly, my own views have been strongly influenced through participation on this list over the years; because I felt compelled to reassess my understanding using those issues of literary, historical, social, and cultural context you mentioned, and so graciously shared by more knowledgeable members who routinely engage in research based on methodological principles. The result has been a sense of expanded awareness, but not necessarily a reversal of my initial interpretation or again understanding of a particular concept. As Richard mentioned: [ I ] ...do not think in terms of strategies.. while at the same time conceding that I do, indeed, employ personal strategies to analyze the rationale/motivation of certain Sacred Scriptures. My feeling is that most people do. Their approach may not be recognizable as scientific methodology and, they would most likely reject any suggestion that it IS. I think of it as using our inherent rational faculty so that we can articulate and describe an otherwise elusive spiritually based conviction. Lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
RE: Terms vs. Concepts
Hi Mark, Very interesting post on literalism... Being something of a literalist myself, could you give some concrete examples of term vs. concept from the Baha'i Writings ? This is NOT meant as a challenge, but rather because an example would better enable me to see what you are suggesting. Thanks! Lovingly, Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
