Dear David,
You will find photographs of the Mashriqu'l-Adkhar in Turkistan here:
http://www.bahai-biblio.org/photo-temple.htm
Temple in Ichqabad (Turkistan)
First Baha'i temple in Turkistan which was confiscated by the communists and
later destroyed by an earthquake.
Lovingly, Sandra
GS: I think I'd heard there was a geometrically increasing
fine for
adultery but I don't think I'd heard of the public humiliation
of
adulterers.
SM: I'm not sure what Ron is referring to here either.
SC: Not *public* but, ...in the world to come...
God hath imposed a fine on every
Susan,
Thank you! Profound insight reflected in his
poetry.
Lovingly, Sandra
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the
Thank you, Susan and Congratulations! with heart-felt
admiration. Lucky little boy! Lucky family!
Actually I'm inquiring about matching Baha'is seeking to
adopt and available children within the Faith.
I myself was adopted at 3 months... Records sealed. Because
the Faith supports Open
Is anyone on the list aware of a Baha'i Children Adoption
Service/Organization - perhaps in the U.S.?
Sandra
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Dear Jim,
Being a bit confused about your own position with regard to
this statement:
What I am suggesting is that we each have a responsibility to
promote the best interests of the peoples and kindreds of the
earth, to the best of our knowledge, understanding, and
capacity, even if it means
The following is a quote taken from a news item... Musab
al-Zarqawi: Our Sunni faith stipulates that the sword and
bullets be the only dialogue between us and the worshippers of
the cross.
Could someone, perhaps Gilberto, tell me the particular
Quranic text being referenced in this statement
Dear Gilberto,
No assumption on my part... I assure you. My error is asuming
that because he said Our Sunni faith... etc. the belief
would have some basis in the Quran. And, if I remember
correctly you are Sunni ... obviously a reliable source of
information.
If there is no basis for this
Some of you may find this interesting, if you have not seen it
before.
The Power of the Mustard Seed
Why strict churches are strong.
http://slate.msn.com/id/2118313/?GT1=6443
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Gilberto, you wrote:
So for example, I realize and appreciate (really I do) that
from your perspective the issue of who is or isn't Bahai is
rather clear. But there are also other people claiming to be
Bahai who don't necessarily
meet your criteria. So implicitly or explicitly, you are
Dear Brent,
H, you mentioned looking at a particular section in
context. My current reference is the document on Ocean - I've
misplaced the book. Is there something I've missed that
delineates sections of the Surih of the Temple?
Fix your gaze upon Him Who is the *Temple of God* amongst
Gilberto: Just in general, it seems very hard to get around
the issue. Anytime you take a religious group and you want to
define it, by definition that means setting limits as to who
is in, and who is out. And unless you simply accept everyone
who self-identifies, it seems like you would
Brent: ...With these hands, moreover, We shall both
bestow and withhold, though none can understand this save
those who see with the eye of the spirit.' ...
snip
I am interested, not in how God withholds gifts, but in how
you friends see that the Hands
of the Cause have withheld.
Dear Brent,
Dear Gilberto,
You wrote: If the Nazis asked him where the German Bahais
were, he could have just said
no, I'll never turn them over. and that would have been
disobedience. But if he disbanded the Bahais that means he
could honestly say that the community didn't officially
exist.
The Nazis
Hi David from Down Under!
Here are a few quotes that may be relevant to your question on
personal viewing censorship:
Thine eye is My trust, suffer not the dust of vain desires to
becloud its luster. Thine ear is a sign of My bounty, let not
the tumult of unseemly motives turn it away from My
Dear Gilberto,
One of the difficulties encountered when Baha'is give answers
off the top of their head about the Baha'i Faith is that it is
generally an abbreviated explanation. The common denominator
here, is the Sacred texts of the Baha'i Faith and the source
for the most thorough
Ahang: Yes, but exact same thing is stated in regard to all
Spiritual Assemblies. That is, in consultation, they are all
recipient of Divine Guidance.
Dear Ahang,
Are there prerequisites outlined for the Universal House of
Justice that enables them to be recipients of Divine Guidance
as it is
Susan: Is that what your argument is based on,
capitalization? Because as far as I know there is not any
convention whereby Baha'is are supposed to use upper case
letters to refer to the Universal House of Justice and lower
case when referring to other institutions. The only difference
Susan: Some of those passage you cite would refer only to
the Universal House of Justice and some to Houses of Justice
in general. I don't think that the term 'trustee' is any hint
as to which He is referring to. All members of any elected
institution are 'Trustees of the Merciful.'
Dear
Gilberto:
Sure. For many of those characteristics listed I've seen
passages of Quran, or hadith, etc. which mention them as well.
I don't
think Bahais have monopolies on those characteristics. There
are
ways to cultivate and encourage and facilitate good leaders
which
don't involve converting to a
Scott:
Trying to enforce the cutting off of a man's hand for theft
becomes a
problem when the rest of the world society perceives it to
be brutal - for
one instance.
Gilberto:
But on what grounds is it brutal?
It's inhumane; lacking in compassion, sympathy, or
consideration for a fellow human
Gilberto: To get married you only need 2 witnesses and it
literally could just take a couple
seconds to have a legally valid marriage.
For your general information this could well describe the
requirements to sanction a Baha'i marriage.
Before at least two witnesses the couple each recite this
Gilberto: My present-day conscience tells me that burning
people alive is brutal. I also think in the West there are
many present-day consciences who would have problems with the
Bahai rules about women, homosexuality, pre-publication
review, and the separation of church-and-state.
So where does
In response to Gilberto's question on Righteous Warfare...
part 1 of 4
`Abdu'l-Bahá - The Secret of Divine Civilization pgs. 55-59
Today we have closed our eyes to every righteous act and have
sacrificed the abiding happiness of society to our own
transitory profit. We regard fanaticism and
Continuing part 3:
`Abdu'l-Bahá - The Secret of Divine Civilization pgs. 64-68
True civilization will unfurl its banner in the midmost heart
of the world whenever a certain number of its distinguished
and high-minded sovereigns -- the shining exemplars of
devotion and determination -- shall, for
Continuing part 2:
`Abdu'l-Bahá - The Secret of Divine Civilization pgs. 60-63
All the peoples of Europe, notwithstanding their vaunted
civilization, sink and drown in this terrifying sea of passion
and desire, and this is why all the phenomena of their culture
come to nothing. Let no one wonder
Continuing part 4:
`Abdu'l-Bahá - The Secret of Divine Civilization pgs. 69-71
Contrast with this the praiseworthy qualities and the
greatness and nobility of Anushirvan the Generous and the
Just. [1] That fair-minded monarch came to power at a time
when the once solidly established throne of
I completely agree about Ruhi and youth.
Here is my post from 2001:
http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m29288.html
Unfortunately from then to now there hasn't been a Book 2
offering in our community as many others became enthusiastic
and there have been several more Book 1 study circles.
Speaking of arson... I sent this several days ago... but
haven't seen it on the list.
- Original Message -
From: Sandra Chamberlain
To: BAHA'I STUDIES
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 2:58 PM
Subject: Arson
Gilberto, you stated: Also, since being burned alive is
the punishment for arson
Gilberto: That's really bizzare. I saw this a long time
ago. And Mark already gave a more complete answer to the
question than I would have given a long time ago.
Well, sometimes, posts are missing from the Archives, which is
where I looked. Nothing from me on the 14th and nothing from
Mark
B. Abortion
1154. Abortion Merely to Prevent the Birth of an Unwanted
Child is Strictly Forbidden in the Cause
Abortion merely to prevent the birth of an unwanted child is
strictly forbidden in the Cause. There may, however, be
instances in which an abortion would be justified by medical
Susan: If I recall correctly the passage you are alluding
to, I think it is one which has been misused a lot. Wasn't
Abdu'l-Baha talking more about Assembly members all getting
behind a decision that the majority agreed upon rather than so
much the community at large? In other words we are
Gilberto, you stated: Also, since being burned alive is
the punishment for arson in the
Bahai faith, I'm not sure on what grounds you are objecting to
the above.
Would you please provide your source for this statement - Book
and page from Baha'i Sacred Scripture ?
Thank you!
Sandra
Dear Gilberto and Scott,
In an attempt to add some balance to the endless discussion
about who determined that women should not serve on the
Universal House of Justice; I offer the following from the
Kitab-i-Aqdas, after your comments.
Gilberto: The UHJ which interprets the laws excludes
Gilberto: The rights of Muslim women to property and
inheritance, to some protection if
divorced, and to the conducting of business, were rights
prescribed by the Quran twelve hundred years ago, even if they
were not everywhere translated into practice.
Dear Gilberto,
And, interestingly,
If the Bahai faith truly represents radical progress and
maturity then it should provide something which is missing
from the other religions. If there is nothing missing from
previous religions then they are perfectly sufficient for
today.
The Baha'i Faith ie the Revelation of Baha'u'llah,
Hi Mark!
You wrote: However, Shoghi Effendi appears to have believed
in degrees of authenticity. The Qur'an is more authentic (from
a Baha'i, not necessarily an academic, viewpoint) than the
Bible, just as the actual writings of Shoghi Effendi are more
authentic than letters written on his
Gilberto: Maybe it's just me, but from my perspective,
humanity's biggest problem isn't ignorance as much as
forgetfulness. As human beings, to a large degree I think we
know what we ought to be doing. We know we shouldn't steal and
murder. We know we shouldn't exploit and take advantage of
Dear Gilberto,
You wrote: But at the same time, among the many different
religious discussions one can have, some smell different.
Below is a excerpt from a brief compilation I did in 2003
which I think of as Baha'u'llah's smell test... References
below.
Lovingly, Sandra
Glorified art
Susan: Dear Ron and Sandra, I think Abdu'l-Baha's
knowledge of English may well have been adequate to understand
people without an interpreter much of the time, at least by
the time He left America. I suspect speaking English back to
them may have been more of a problem. But when a
SC: To my way of thinking to deny the Power of God to
express His Will through a human Mouthpiece, as were all His
Manifestations, is to deny all Creation.
RS: How so?
Inspite of all our [human] observations and subsequent
replications of principles in Creation it only serves to
remind us of
Dear Brent,
On this point I would disagree with you...; if you are saying
Baha'u'llah did not see a Maiden and I believe that is what
you are saying.
Shoghi Effendi does not say the images were symbols conjured
up by the Manifestations to relate Their experience. He says
the images were
So from the Bahai perspective, not only was Muhammad not
the last prophet, but he wasn't even the last manifestation in
the Prophetic Cycle?
Dear Gilberto,
In response to the above comment I would like to offer a
personal observation:
In relating the internment of the Báb's remains on
Gilberto: I think that if God is really speaking and a
religion is worth its salt, it doesn't need to be replaced by
another in order to progress. If the revelation is really
inspired, then morally sensitive people from the particular
religious tradiition can still go back to the revelation
Dear Ron, you wrote: Since every Manifestation acted
consistently with natural law, and acted as if They were not
omniscient and omnipotent, to believe that they were
Omniscient and Omnipotent means believing that They lived
their lives acting in a false way, in some cruel and sordid
Joke
Dear Gliberto, I wrote: I would agree that the spiritual
attributes of which humans are capable are eternally
appropriate. However, the material (scientific)
capabilities of humanity have advanced to such a degree (and,
continue to do so) that it has become necessary to find
solutions that
I wrote: So, essentially, the position of Baha'u'llah's
followers is the same as Abel's: If thou dost stretch thy
hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my
hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear Allah, the
cherisher of the worlds. We practice non-resistance in the
Here is a link to a thought provoking article in light of
recent discussions on the list. I would be interested in any
comments, particularly with regard to prevalence of arranged
marriages in current Muslim society.
Sandra
-When Islam Breaks Down- By: Theodore Dalrymple - City
Journal
Dear Susan,
You wrote: It is just that the term itself is derived from
Christianity.
Well, I'm not convinced it didn't originate with
Baha'u'llah... OK, call me a die-hard! ; )
The Guardian translated Gleanings, published in 1952. So,
conceding that the actual phrase originated with him
Dear Gilberto,
If I may, I would like to interject that progressive
Revelation is not some catch-phrase that Baha'is have adopted
to validate a belief. The term was first used by Baha'u'llah
in the following quote and expanded in the second quote from
Kitab-i-Aqdas footnotes:
XXXI.
Dear Susan,
Could you be a bit more explicit about this theory, as I'm not
familiar with any possible source in Christian theology.
...he in turn, seems to have gotten it from Christian
theology
While I'm open to a broader understanding of the term, I
feel that because the passage from
But hear, O My brother, My plaint against them that claim to
be associated with God and with the Manifestations of His
knowledge, and yet follow their corrupt inclinations, consume
the substance of their neighbour, are given to wine, commit
murder, defraud and slander each other, hurl
Though the purpose of Him Who is the Eternal Truth hath been
to confer everlasting life upon all men, and ensure their
security and peace, yet witness how they have arisen to shed
the blood of His loved ones, and have pronounced on Him the
sentence of death. (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the
Dear Fariborz,
However, taken as a general mandate, one can interpret
whosoever ariseth for the triumph
of My cause can be interpreted as fellow believers as well.
I would agree with this. Again, with the qualification of
encouragement and support rather than serve. To be more
explicit: we
Dear Fariborz,
Knowing how frustrating it can be to retrieve a special quote,
I'm happy this is what you were looking for.
However, if I may, I'd like to point out - in consideration of
language barriers - And, without doubt you are much further
advanced than I in mastering languages...
To:
Richard, you wrote: What human structurization could be
named or labeled 'emanation'?
to which Mark responded: IMO, emanation is a divine
structurization for the particulars, the created beings, which
God emanates.
I agree with Mark's comment (fortunately, so does
Abdu'l-Baha... see SAQ
Dear Fariborz,
Personally, I cannot recall a phrase which implies ...after
the Recognition one should serve those that believe... The
closest would be directives to the Institutions to serve the
servants. Otherwise, those references to serve that I've
located seem to address the willingness
Mark:
As I am using these terms, naming particulars by attribution
would be identical to universals
or structurization. For instance, gender is a result of
attributing characteristics to people
defined (rightly or wrongly) as being one sex or the other. (I
say rightly or wrongly since
there is
Hi Mark,
To Richard you wrote: Reality is constructed through the
dynamic process of naming.
By Reality do you iintend percieved reality ? And, if so,
can it be assumed that the process of naming is based on
recognizable attributes of a particular or universal ?
(and because Reality as
Yes, any system is, in my view, constructed through naming.
In this case, naming refers to
the *attribution* of characteristics.
Hi Mark,
Could you give an example of naming by attribution in each -
Particulars; Universals; and Structurizations...
And, include: who/what is
Hi Mark
You wrote: What I am trying to
do is to distinguish between particulars, universals (or categories), and
structurizations:
This came across clearly in the modified abstract. First
time around I was completely lost...
The 1st paragraph of the modified was for me a conglomeration
of
Hi (again) Mark,
You wrote to Richard: IMO, the different evolutions are
dynamic structurizations.
I agree with this also. My personal feeling is that
Creation in all it's forms was structuralized (your
terminology) ...normally, I would say: set in motion... by
the One Creator we know as
Anyone out there who could give me the meaning of this word
which I believe is Arabic... ??
'aamiyyah or as a name Amiyah
My daughter gave (premature) birth to a 3 lb. baby girl the
22nd. and has named her Amiyah she said she met someone
years ago with that name and always anticipated giving
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we must accept that they are realities that cannot be
defined in a rigourous manner, as one would attempt to define
the terms of mathematics or even of philosophy. This is a
realm of knowledge in which poetry, analogy, hyperbole and
paradox are to be expected; a realm in which the
Manifestations
Dear Mark,
Well Merriam-Webster (you know her, I'm sure... one of my
dearest friends!) says:
hyperbole: extravagant exaggeration (as mile-high ice-cream
cones)
So my conclusion is that the hyperbole would be in the WHAT
[cannibalism] not the WHO [Africans].
In the quotes from SAQ,
Sacred cows make the best hamburger
Hasan wrote: This could be a hyperbole for people who eat
meat.
You wrote: Even more so for vegetarians. ;-)
Hi Mark,
Wouldn't that be satire -coming from a vegetarian?
Merriam says:
satire:
1 : a literary work holding up human vices and follies to
Dear Mark,
Some more hyperbole for you...
Pygmies being eaten by rebels in Congo's ongoing war, UN
reveals
The Scotsman - January 9, 2003
http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=25452003
still... Lovingly, Sandra
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Dear Hasan,
Somehow, I missed some of Susan M. comments. No doubt she has
insights into the historical aspects that are beyond my
expertise, ... what an understatement !
As we study the Writings all of us are striving to glean
whatever spiritual implications we might apply to our own
spiritual
Hi Susan,
Thanks so much for posting Counsellor Birkland's talk!
We love him here in Alaska. Whenever he visits it's like having a member
of the family return home... Such a loving and genuine person to
know.
I was prompted to check out the "menu" for this year's
Conference and was
Patti Goebel wrote: Speaking of Babylon, the symbolic city
of corrupted religion, John writes: . . . thy merchants
were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all
nations deceived. And in her was found the blood of prophets,
and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the
Dear Ahang,
You commented:
Again, this was in fulfilment of Qur'anic prophecy about the
two liars (the Bab and Quddus) and the
third one (Baha'u'llah).
Could you please provide chapter and verse in the Quran ?
Gratefully,
Sandra
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Dear Richard,Today reading your post I
concluded that I have a very simplemind, indeed! What you were
suggesting from the followingverse has never occurred to me in over 30
years..."Say O people, if ye deny these verses, by what proof have
yebelieved in God? Produce it, O Assemblage of
Hi Dean,
Well, here I go again... maybe this time I got it right!
88 GUARDIAN (Infallibility of the)
The infallibility of the Guardian is confined to matters
which are related strictly to the Cause and interpretation of
the teachings; he is not an infallible authority on other
subjects, such as
David wrote: It's a pity the Bab didn't address them by
name!
However, David, in -God Passes By-, Shoghi Effendi indicates
that the Bab DID address each of them *by name - the names
bestowed on them by Baha'u'llah in Badasht. This is not to
say all 18 were present; as the Guardian doesn't
Dear Ahang (and David)...
Thank you for the clarification Ahang! Particularly, because
in God Passes By - not a translation... ;- ) - the Guardian
mentions several individuals who, in context, could to be
understood as among the Letters of the Living - on pages
10-24.
I can't help wondering;
A literal reading of _Some Answered Questions_ has led many
Baha'is to assume that `Abdu'l-Baha was promoting what some
have called parallel evolution, which is nearly identical to
Christian old-earth creationism.
Hi Mark,
So... in contrast what do you assume / conclude about
evolution as
Hi Mark,
Very interesting post on literalism... Being something of a
literalist myself, could you give some concrete examples of
term vs. concept from the Baha'i Writings ?
This is NOT meant as a challenge, but rather because an
example would better enable me to see what you are
suggesting.
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