date:20160313

Legal, illegal, ain't nobody got time for that
On Mar 14, 2016 12:53 AM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:

> You are aware that Obama gutted that legislation illegally?
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 9:47 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Anti-immigration - Puck 1893
>
>
>
> You are aware there was a welfare reform act passed in 1996?
>
>
>
> *From:* Rory Conaway 
>
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 11:13 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Anti-immigration - Puck 1893
>
>
>
> I was specific Ken, “welfare”.  If I meant to say Social Security, I would
> have said that but I was in a hurry.  However, I would also add,
> unemployment as a huge, anyone that mysteriously became disabled when their
> unemployment ran out, and anyone getting any kind of public assistance. If
> you are working and can’t make ends meet, fine then that needs to be
> reviewed.  If you aren’t working but can and aren’t looking for a job, then
> you do public works, work on a farm, or you lose your benefits.  And
> mandatory drug testing for ANYONE getting a single penny of taxpayer
> dollars.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 8:56 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Anti-immigration - Puck 1893
>
>
>
> You need to not use the term “welfare check” and be specific what type of
> government assistance you are talking about.  Unemployment insurance?
> Social Security?  Medicare/Medicaid?  SNAP?  Housing assistance?  Earned
> income tax credit?  Lifeline?  The answer depends on what kind of
> assistance you are talking about.
>
>
>
> As an employer who pays into unemployment insurance, I don’t like the guys
> I see at home playing video games and collecting unemployment insurance who
> could be out working.
>
>
>
> And I heard a report once on something like 60 Minutes that disability
> fraud is rampant, with crooked lawyers specializing in submitting the
> fraudulent paperwork.
>
>
>
> But I believe most SNAP cards actually go to working parents with minimum
> wage jobs, sometimes more than one job.
>
>
>
> My sister with MS needs her Social Security Disability check, she wouldn’t
> be much use on a farm.
>
>
>
> So it all depends.
>
>
>
> It also depends on the type of farm work.  In the southwest, they need
> seasonal workers to pick crops.  By me there are the pig farms that hire a
> lot of Hispanic workers, it’s not a very attractive job, but it’s not
> seasonal.  At least some of the worst jobs are being automated.  I saw an
> article that they are developing robots to do slaughterhouse work, cutting
> up the carcasses.  I don’t wish that job even on illegal immigrants.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
>
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 9:35 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Anti-immigration - Puck 1893
>
>
>
> That's a tough one.
>
> On one hand, with the government already giving out welfare checks that
> could help with labor costs on small and medium farms - work the farm, get
> a check. So, what's to encourage a farmer to pay more than minimum wage
> (discouraging potential applicants internationally) if he can just tell the
> Fed "send me workers".
>
> I also personally know cases of very good high level workers in various
> industries who had problems for over a year finding a job - but once they
> finally did after hundreds of applications, they were back to making six
> figures or higher. It's hard to work somewhere for 20 years or more and
> retire there unless in government or state work.
>
> Decent idea, but it would need some controls in place so it doesn't cause
> inadvertent issues.
>
> +1
>
> On Mar 13, 2016 9:26 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:
>
> I got to thinking about the labor issue with the farms.  I’m having a hard
> time understanding how we can have tens of millions of people on government
> assistance and we can’t find farm workers.  I’d like to make working on
> farms or other businesses being a requirement for a welfare check.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Reynolds
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 7:09 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Anti-immigration - Puck 1893
>
>
>
> Some are here for jobs, some are here to escape massive corruption and
> drug cartels. These are jobs that most American's don't want to do - either
> the work is "too hard" or pay "too low" - which really the latter is true.
> I came from a farm community (Kentucky Tobacco) and have seen how hard they
> work. Many have two or three jobs, and they share a trailer and a truck.
> They take shifts sleeping on the available beds, and send most of their
> checks home to their families to take care of them. Some save to

Re: [AFMUG] OT Anti-immigration - Puck 1893

You are aware that Obama gutted that legislation illegally?

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 9:47 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Anti-immigration - Puck 1893

You are aware there was a welfare reform act passed in 1996?

From: Rory Conaway
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 11:13 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Anti-immigration - Puck 1893

I was specific Ken, “welfare”.  If I meant to say Social Security, I would have 
said that but I was in a hurry.  However, I would also add, unemployment as a 
huge, anyone that mysteriously became disabled when their unemployment ran out, 
and anyone getting any kind of public assistance. If you are working and can’t 
make ends meet, fine then that needs to be reviewed.  If you aren’t working but 
can and aren’t looking for a job, then you do public works, work on a farm, or 
you lose your benefits.  And mandatory drug testing for ANYONE getting a single 
penny of taxpayer dollars.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 8:56 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Anti-immigration - Puck 1893

You need to not use the term “welfare check” and be specific what type of 
government assistance you are talking about.  Unemployment insurance?  Social 
Security?  Medicare/Medicaid?  SNAP?  Housing assistance?  Earned income tax 
credit?  Lifeline?  The answer depends on what kind of assistance you are 
talking about.

As an employer who pays into unemployment insurance, I don’t like the guys I 
see at home playing video games and collecting unemployment insurance who could 
be out working.

And I heard a report once on something like 60 Minutes that disability fraud is 
rampant, with crooked lawyers specializing in submitting the fraudulent 
paperwork.

But I believe most SNAP cards actually go to working parents with minimum wage 
jobs, sometimes more than one job.

My sister with MS needs her Social Security Disability check, she wouldn’t be 
much use on a farm.

So it all depends.

It also depends on the type of farm work.  In the southwest, they need seasonal 
workers to pick crops.  By me there are the pig farms that hire a lot of 
Hispanic workers, it’s not a very attractive job, but it’s not seasonal.  At 
least some of the worst jobs are being automated.  I saw an article that they 
are developing robots to do slaughterhouse work, cutting up the carcasses.  I 
don’t wish that job even on illegal immigrants.

From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 9:35 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Anti-immigration - Puck 1893

That's a tough one.

On one hand, with the government already giving out welfare checks that could 
help with labor costs on small and medium farms - work the farm, get a check. 
So, what's to encourage a farmer to pay more than minimum wage (discouraging 
potential applicants internationally) if he can just tell the Fed "send me 
workers".

I also personally know cases of very good high level workers in various 
industries who had problems for over a year finding a job - but once they 
finally did after hundreds of applications, they were back to making six 
figures or higher. It's hard to work somewhere for 20 years or more and retire 
there unless in government or state work.

Decent idea, but it would need some controls in place so it doesn't cause 
inadvertent issues.

+1
On Mar 13, 2016 9:26 PM, "Rory Conaway" 
> wrote:
I got to thinking about the labor issue with the farms.  I’m having a hard time 
understanding how we can have tens of millions of people on government 
assistance and we can’t find farm workers.  I’d like to make working on farms 
or other businesses being a requirement for a welfare check.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Josh Reynolds
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 7:09 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Anti-immigration - Puck 1893

Some are here for jobs, some are here to escape massive corruption and drug 
cartels. These are jobs that most American's don't want to do - either the work 
is "too hard" or pay "too low" - which really the latter is true. I came from a 
farm community (Kentucky Tobacco) and have seen how hard they work. Many have 
two or three jobs, and they share a trailer and a truck. They take shifts 
sleeping on the available beds, and send most of their checks home to their 
families to take care of them. Some save to bring their families here. Very few 
of these workers were paid minimum wage, but they were often given a trailer to 
stay in (for the group). Rows and rows of trailers per farm.

You deport these guys, American agriculture will suffer. The farm subsidies get 
sucked up by

Re: [AFMUG] OT - Bloomington, IL rally peaceful

Yeah, it was. My brother in law went, had ticket but for there too late, so
he went and protested for something to do. There were only a few minor
verbal scuffles, tremendous police presence, the Donald didn't aggitate.
The only two bad things were litter everywhere and a cemetery got turned
into a parking lot, local fire department union mobilized and went and
reseated the headstones and repaired as best they could the landscaping.
The protestors had a decent turnout, but the locals outnumbered the
outsiders so none of the aggitators could get anything to set off.  I did
have one friend who is a very pro life guy who does the actual peaceful
protests at clinics go down there. The primarily Bernie supporters didn't
like that, they had some choice words for him and boxed him in with their
signs so no one could see his. He is a coolheaded cat though so he asked an
officer where he could legally be to move away from them, the officer
pointed out the locations. But everywhere he went the sandernistas blocked
him. He was frustrated because they were all on the same side, but that
crowd wants to silence anyone who has any differing view but he at least
tried.

I'm pretty sure it's good I had to take the kids out door to dooring church
fliers and then a bday party cause I would have ended up going down there
in my black lies matter shirt and hung out with the protestors. There was
some really humorous anti trump signs though.

But this does go to show us south of 80 hicks are capable of having
peaceful nonviolent confrontations between opposing parties. . . . Dammit
On Mar 14, 2016 12:11 AM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:

> That One Guy need not have worried about violent protests at the
> Bloomington rally, evidently everything was copacetic, as Jaime would say.
>
>
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/03/13/trump-pulls-man-out-crowd-tout-legal-immigration/81727540/
>

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

2016-03-13 Thread Cameron Crum

Chuck, you can get to the same conclusion with simple logic and objective
morality based on natural law. I'm happy to elaborate with sources for
anyone who cares to listen. To the peanut gallery, please don't start a
lecture on morality if you don't understand the word objective. Most of the
time when I enter into these discussions, "Your morality is not my morality
speech." That would be subjective morality, not objective.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 12:02 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> No offense meant, I just like kicking around the philosophy ball with
> folks that have opposing points of view.  Only way I learn things.
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:57 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>
>
> I'm pulling back from this discussion. It's a no-win, and there are other
> hills I'd rather die on.
>
> Picking my battles so to speak.
> On Mar 13, 2016 11:50 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
>> If I have a strong feeling that the guy in the sky that created all of us
>> hates the murder of babies, yes I will try to stop that via legislation.
>> How is that persecution?  Just trying to carry out the wishes of the boss.
>> He has promised me a pretty nice apartment if I give it a good try.
>>
>> Persecution?
>>
>> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:46 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>
>>
>> So you wish to force your religious beliefs on others via legislation, in
>> a country created to escape persecution from religion?
>> On Mar 13, 2016 11:38 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>
>>> Here is why a churches need to be involved with reproductive care,
>>> contraception, or abortion.
>>>
>>> If you believe there is a God, Creator, Savior etc.
>>> >Then if you believe that entity cares about these things (listed above).
>>> >>Then if you believe that the mind of that entity has communicated its
>>> wishes with man.
>>> >>>Then if you believe that those wishes are contained in doctrine of
>>> churches or bodies of scripture.
>>> Then the church and its doctrine trumps all laws of man.
>>> The church needs to be involved in all facets of life.  If you believe
>>> the above.
>>>
>>> You can claim to be agnostic or atheistic but a smart person should
>>> hedge their bets against actually not knowing that they are totally right
>>> about that.   Could be that every time you eat spaghetti you are committing
>>> a mortal sin.  Could be.
>>>
>>> For me and mine, I will take my particular flavor of Christianity and do
>>> my thing, while you do your thing.
>>> But if I have an opportunity to legislate away things I consider mortal
>>> sins, I will try.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:54 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>>
>>>
>>> Why does any church need to be involved with reproductive care,
>>> contraception, or abortion?
>>>
>>> Those are medical issues.
>>> On Mar 13, 2016 6:48 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
>>> wrote:
>>>

 Actually, my belief is here in the deep south we have a church on every
 corner.  Let the churches handle itthey are more than capable.

 My tax dollars aren't needed for this. (or many other things)


 - Original Message -
 *From:* Ken Hohhof 
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:18 PM
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

 What many people who lose sleep over Planned Parenthood are actually
 upset about is they offer birth control.  Some people obsess about poor
 people having sex without the punishment of getting pregnant.  See this if
 you forgot:


 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_Limbaugh%E2%80%93Sandra_Fluke_controversy

 I don’t understand how you can be extremely anti-abortion yet also
 extremely anti-contraception.  Less unwanted pregnancies = less abortions.
 Which is the lesser evil?

 I think it comes down to some people are obsessed with sex, especially
 “other” people having sex.  #nosyneighbors #getalife


 *From:* Josh Reynolds 
 *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:48 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan


 Did you research that video? You should. It's not what you think.
 On Mar 13, 2016 5:41 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
 wrote:

>
> Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here.
>
> I don't care about gay marriage.  I'm not gay, I know a handful of gay
> people.  Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right
> telling them what they can or can't do.
>
> Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt.   Now, I'm not
> so sure on that.  When I was growing up there were

[AFMUG] OT - Bloomington, IL rally peaceful

That One Guy need not have worried about violent protests at the Bloomington 
rally, evidently everything was copacetic, as Jaime would say.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/03/13/trump-pulls-man-out-crowd-tout-legal-immigration/81727540/

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Daylight savings

Isn't that a Cher song?
On Mar 13, 2016 6:13 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:

> The kid has been fretting about this for half an hour now.  He wants me to
> change the time back.  I would if I could, kiddo, but it's the law.  He
> says it's a bad law.  Yup, I agree, but I still can't change it.
>
> This is a damn tyranny we live under.  Storm the capitol! Take back bed
> time!
>
>
> On 3/13/2016 7:05 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>
> Ha.  Blame it on Ben.. Franklin
> On Mar 13, 2016 4:59 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:
>
>> I changed my 6 year old's watch to the new time a few minutes ago. He's
>> really upset that bedtime rolled up on him an hour sooner than he
>> expectedpoor bastard.
>>
>> This event reminded me that while I've read all the justifications for
>> changing the time twice a year, I find them all to be stupid.
>> There's no way it saves any significant amount of energy.
>> Farmers can't possibly care what the hour on the clock says: whether the
>> clock says 5 or 6 it's still "milk-the-cows-o'clock".
>> Even if it saved any coal consumption during WWII, that's irrelevant
>> today.
>> Some people might prefer to have an extra hour of light in the
>> evening.get up an hour earlier?
>>
>> Maybe I'll vote for Trump if he promises he can get rid of daylight
>> savings.
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump’s Language Is Similar to the 1920s Ku Klux Klan: Nationalism and Anti-immigration - The Atlantic

And Obama's is similar to Dave Ayers and Louis Farrakhan.
Shoes are similar to socks since they're both on feet, but that doesn't
make them the same thing, don't believe me? Wear just socks outside, or
shoes on the new carpet and tell your mother what you did.
On Mar 13, 2016 11:23 AM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:

>
> http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/donald-trump-kkk/473190/
>

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

No offense meant, I just like kicking around the philosophy ball with folks 
that have opposing points of view.  Only way I learn things.  

From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:57 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

I'm pulling back from this discussion. It's a no-win, and there are other hills 
I'd rather die on.

Picking my battles so to speak.

On Mar 13, 2016 11:50 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  If I have a strong feeling that the guy in the sky that created all of us 
hates the murder of babies, yes I will try to stop that via legislation.  How 
is that persecution?  Just trying to carry out the wishes of the boss.  He has 
promised me a pretty nice apartment if I give it a good try.  

  Persecution?

  From: Josh Reynolds 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:46 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

  So you wish to force your religious beliefs on others via legislation, in a 
country created to escape persecution from religion?

  On Mar 13, 2016 11:38 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

Here is why a churches need to be involved with reproductive care, 
contraception, or abortion.

If you believe there is a God, Creator, Savior etc.
>Then if you believe that entity cares about these things (listed above).
>>Then if you believe that the mind of that entity has communicated its 
wishes with man.
>>>Then if you believe that those wishes are contained in doctrine of 
churches or bodies of scripture.
Then the church and its doctrine trumps all laws of man.  
The church needs to be involved in all facets of life.  If you believe the 
above.

You can claim to be agnostic or atheistic but a smart person should hedge 
their bets against actually not knowing that they are totally right about that. 
  Could be that every time you eat spaghetti you are committing a mortal sin.  
Could be.  

For me and mine, I will take my particular flavor of Christianity and do my 
thing, while you do your thing.  
But if I have an opportunity to legislate away things I consider mortal 
sins, I will try.  

From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:54 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

Why does any church need to be involved with reproductive care, 
contraception, or abortion?

Those are medical issues.

On Mar 13, 2016 6:48 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  
wrote:

  Actually, my belief is here in the deep south we have a church on every 
corner.  Let the churches handle itthey are more than capable.

  My tax dollars aren't needed for this. (or many other things)

- Original Message - 
From: Ken Hohhof 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

What many people who lose sleep over Planned Parenthood are actually 
upset about is they offer birth control.  Some people obsess about poor people 
having sex without the punishment of getting pregnant.  See this if you forgot:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_Limbaugh%E2%80%93Sandra_Fluke_controversy

I don’t understand how you can be extremely anti-abortion yet also 
extremely anti-contraception.  Less unwanted pregnancies = less abortions.  
Which is the lesser evil?

I think it comes down to some people are obsessed with sex, especially 
“other” people having sex.  #nosyneighbors #getalife

From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:48 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

Did you research that video? You should. It's not what you think.

On Mar 13, 2016 5:41 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  
wrote:

  Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here.

  I don't care about gay marriage.  I'm not gay, I know a handful of 
gay people.  Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right 
telling them what they can or can't do.

  Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt.   Now, I'm not 
so sure on that.  When I was growing up there were few gay couples who had 
"come out" and we thought if the girl had a different last name than her mommy 
we thought that was odd.  Quite a bit different now but it could still screw 
with a kids head in terms of "traditional marriage".

  It would be hard to NOT state that traditional marriage has gone to 
hell in this country.  But then again, so many "traditional" things have gone 
to hell.  How many women stay at home and take care of the family while dad 
goes to work?

  I am in favor of defunding planned parenthood.  The videos pretty 
much got to me.  It's MY TAX DOLLARS.  Defund it.  There are plenty of other 
non-government-funded entities who can do that work.

  Any tax is bad :)

  I'm going to stop there, i will get in trouble... lol

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

Sometimes God is in a hurry and gets screwed by autocorrect...
I have to admit, I can’t always make out what he is saying...

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

Except when someone else is interpreting what the boss wants:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/13/world/middleeast/to-maintain-supply-of-sex-slaves-isis-pushes-birth-control.html

I hear they are also expecting nice apartments.

From: Chuck McCown 
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 11:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

If I have a strong feeling that the guy in the sky that created all of us hates 
the murder of babies, yes I will try to stop that via legislation.  How is that 
persecution?  Just trying to carry out the wishes of the boss.  He has promised 
me a pretty nice apartment if I give it a good try.  

Persecution?

From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

So you wish to force your religious beliefs on others via legislation, in a 
country created to escape persecution from religion?

On Mar 13, 2016 11:38 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  Here is why a churches need to be involved with reproductive care, 
contraception, or abortion.

  If you believe there is a God, Creator, Savior etc.
  >Then if you believe that entity cares about these things (listed above).
  >>Then if you believe that the mind of that entity has communicated its 
wishes with man.
  >>>Then if you believe that those wishes are contained in doctrine of 
churches or bodies of scripture.
  Then the church and its doctrine trumps all laws of man.  
  The church needs to be involved in all facets of life.  If you believe the 
above.

  You can claim to be agnostic or atheistic but a smart person should hedge 
their bets against actually not knowing that they are totally right about that. 
  Could be that every time you eat spaghetti you are committing a mortal sin.  
Could be.  

  For me and mine, I will take my particular flavor of Christianity and do my 
thing, while you do your thing.  
  But if I have an opportunity to legislate away things I consider mortal sins, 
I will try.  

  From: Josh Reynolds 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:54 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

  Why does any church need to be involved with reproductive care, 
contraception, or abortion?

  Those are medical issues.

  On Mar 13, 2016 6:48 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  wrote:

Actually, my belief is here in the deep south we have a church on every 
corner.  Let the churches handle itthey are more than capable.

My tax dollars aren't needed for this. (or many other things)

  - Original Message - 
  From: Ken Hohhof 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:18 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

  What many people who lose sleep over Planned Parenthood are actually 
upset about is they offer birth control.  Some people obsess about poor people 
having sex without the punishment of getting pregnant.  See this if you forgot:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_Limbaugh%E2%80%93Sandra_Fluke_controversy

  I don’t understand how you can be extremely anti-abortion yet also 
extremely anti-contraception.  Less unwanted pregnancies = less abortions.  
Which is the lesser evil?

  I think it comes down to some people are obsessed with sex, especially 
“other” people having sex.  #nosyneighbors #getalife

  From: Josh Reynolds 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:48 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

  Did you research that video? You should. It's not what you think.

  On Mar 13, 2016 5:41 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  
wrote:

Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here.

I don't care about gay marriage.  I'm not gay, I know a handful of gay 
people.  Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right telling 
them what they can or can't do.

Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt.   Now, I'm not so 
sure on that.  When I was growing up there were few gay couples who had "come 
out" and we thought if the girl had a different last name than her mommy we 
thought that was odd.  Quite a bit different now but it could still screw with 
a kids head in terms of "traditional marriage".

It would be hard to NOT state that traditional marriage has gone to 
hell in this country.  But then again, so many "traditional" things have gone 
to hell.  How many women stay at home and take care of the family while dad 
goes to work?

I am in favor of defunding planned parenthood.  The videos pretty much 
got to me.  It's MY TAX DOLLARS.  Defund it.  There are plenty of other 
non-government-funded entities who can do that work.

Any tax is bad :)

I'm going to stop there, i will get in trouble...

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

I'm pulling back from this discussion. It's a no-win, and there are other
hills I'd rather die on.

Picking my battles so to speak.
On Mar 13, 2016 11:50 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> If I have a strong feeling that the guy in the sky that created all of us
> hates the murder of babies, yes I will try to stop that via legislation.
> How is that persecution?  Just trying to carry out the wishes of the boss.
> He has promised me a pretty nice apartment if I give it a good try.
>
> Persecution?
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:46 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>
>
> So you wish to force your religious beliefs on others via legislation, in
> a country created to escape persecution from religion?
> On Mar 13, 2016 11:38 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
>> Here is why a churches need to be involved with reproductive care,
>> contraception, or abortion.
>>
>> If you believe there is a God, Creator, Savior etc.
>> >Then if you believe that entity cares about these things (listed above).
>> >>Then if you believe that the mind of that entity has communicated its
>> wishes with man.
>> >>>Then if you believe that those wishes are contained in doctrine of
>> churches or bodies of scripture.
>> Then the church and its doctrine trumps all laws of man.
>> The church needs to be involved in all facets of life.  If you believe
>> the above.
>>
>> You can claim to be agnostic or atheistic but a smart person should hedge
>> their bets against actually not knowing that they are totally right about
>> that.   Could be that every time you eat spaghetti you are committing a
>> mortal sin.  Could be.
>>
>> For me and mine, I will take my particular flavor of Christianity and do
>> my thing, while you do your thing.
>> But if I have an opportunity to legislate away things I consider mortal
>> sins, I will try.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:54 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>
>>
>> Why does any church need to be involved with reproductive care,
>> contraception, or abortion?
>>
>> Those are medical issues.
>> On Mar 13, 2016 6:48 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Actually, my belief is here in the deep south we have a church on every
>>> corner.  Let the churches handle itthey are more than capable.
>>>
>>> My tax dollars aren't needed for this. (or many other things)
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> *From:* Ken Hohhof 
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:18 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>>
>>> What many people who lose sleep over Planned Parenthood are actually
>>> upset about is they offer birth control.  Some people obsess about poor
>>> people having sex without the punishment of getting pregnant.  See this if
>>> you forgot:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_Limbaugh%E2%80%93Sandra_Fluke_controversy
>>>
>>> I don’t understand how you can be extremely anti-abortion yet also
>>> extremely anti-contraception.  Less unwanted pregnancies = less abortions.
>>> Which is the lesser evil?
>>>
>>> I think it comes down to some people are obsessed with sex, especially
>>> “other” people having sex.  #nosyneighbors #getalife
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:48 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>>
>>>
>>> Did you research that video? You should. It's not what you think.
>>> On Mar 13, 2016 5:41 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
>>> wrote:
>>>

 Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here.

 I don't care about gay marriage.  I'm not gay, I know a handful of gay
 people.  Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right
 telling them what they can or can't do.

 Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt.   Now, I'm not so
 sure on that.  When I was growing up there were few gay couples who had
 "come out" and we thought if the girl had a different last name than her
 mommy we thought that was odd.  Quite a bit different now but it could
 still screw with a kids head in terms of "traditional marriage".

 It would be hard to NOT state that traditional marriage has gone to
 hell in this country.  But then again, so many "traditional" things have
 gone to hell.  How many women stay at home and take care of the family
 while dad goes to work?

 I am in favor of defunding planned parenthood.  The videos pretty much
 got to me.  It's MY TAX DOLLARS.  Defund it.  There are plenty of other
 non-government-funded entities who can do that work.

 Any tax is bad :)

 I'm going to stop there, i will get in trouble... lol





 - Original Message -
 *From:* Josh Reynolds

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

Except when someone else is interpreting what the boss wants:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/13/world/middleeast/to-maintain-supply-of-sex-slaves-isis-pushes-birth-control.html

I hear they are also expecting nice apartments.

From: Chuck McCown 
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 11:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

If I have a strong feeling that the guy in the sky that created all of us hates 
the murder of babies, yes I will try to stop that via legislation.  How is that 
persecution?  Just trying to carry out the wishes of the boss.  He has promised 
me a pretty nice apartment if I give it a good try.  

Persecution?

From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

So you wish to force your religious beliefs on others via legislation, in a 
country created to escape persecution from religion?

On Mar 13, 2016 11:38 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  Here is why a churches need to be involved with reproductive care, 
contraception, or abortion.

  If you believe there is a God, Creator, Savior etc.
  >Then if you believe that entity cares about these things (listed above).
  >>Then if you believe that the mind of that entity has communicated its 
wishes with man.
  >>>Then if you believe that those wishes are contained in doctrine of 
churches or bodies of scripture.
  Then the church and its doctrine trumps all laws of man.  
  The church needs to be involved in all facets of life.  If you believe the 
above.

  You can claim to be agnostic or atheistic but a smart person should hedge 
their bets against actually not knowing that they are totally right about that. 
  Could be that every time you eat spaghetti you are committing a mortal sin.  
Could be.  

  For me and mine, I will take my particular flavor of Christianity and do my 
thing, while you do your thing.  
  But if I have an opportunity to legislate away things I consider mortal sins, 
I will try.  

  From: Josh Reynolds 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:54 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

  Why does any church need to be involved with reproductive care, 
contraception, or abortion?

  Those are medical issues.

  On Mar 13, 2016 6:48 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  wrote:

Actually, my belief is here in the deep south we have a church on every 
corner.  Let the churches handle itthey are more than capable.

My tax dollars aren't needed for this. (or many other things)

  - Original Message - 
  From: Ken Hohhof 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:18 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

  What many people who lose sleep over Planned Parenthood are actually 
upset about is they offer birth control.  Some people obsess about poor people 
having sex without the punishment of getting pregnant.  See this if you forgot:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_Limbaugh%E2%80%93Sandra_Fluke_controversy

  I don’t understand how you can be extremely anti-abortion yet also 
extremely anti-contraception.  Less unwanted pregnancies = less abortions.  
Which is the lesser evil?

  I think it comes down to some people are obsessed with sex, especially 
“other” people having sex.  #nosyneighbors #getalife

  From: Josh Reynolds 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:48 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

  Did you research that video? You should. It's not what you think.

  On Mar 13, 2016 5:41 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  
wrote:

Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here.

I don't care about gay marriage.  I'm not gay, I know a handful of gay 
people.  Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right telling 
them what they can or can't do.

Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt.   Now, I'm not so 
sure on that.  When I was growing up there were few gay couples who had "come 
out" and we thought if the girl had a different last name than her mommy we 
thought that was odd.  Quite a bit different now but it could still screw with 
a kids head in terms of "traditional marriage".

It would be hard to NOT state that traditional marriage has gone to 
hell in this country.  But then again, so many "traditional" things have gone 
to hell.  How many women stay at home and take care of the family while dad 
goes to work?

I am in favor of defunding planned parenthood.  The videos pretty much 
got to me.  It's MY TAX DOLLARS.  Defund it.  There are plenty of other 
non-government-funded entities who can do that work.

Any tax is bad :)

I'm going to stop there, i will get in trouble... lol

  - Original Message - 
  From: Josh Reynolds 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:02 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

  His stances:
  Gay

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

Only true if there is no higher law.  

From: Jason McKemie 
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

I firmly believe that people should have to right to practice their religion 
and live the way they like.  However, when those beliefs are forced down other 
people's throats I start to have a very real problem with it.  The separation 
of church and state in this country is essential, and all the things you have 
listed above are absolutely religious issues.

On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 11:38 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Here is why a churches need to be involved with reproductive care, 
contraception, or abortion.

  If you believe there is a God, Creator, Savior etc.
  >Then if you believe that entity cares about these things (listed above).
  >>Then if you believe that the mind of that entity has communicated its 
wishes with man.
  >>>Then if you believe that those wishes are contained in doctrine of 
churches or bodies of scripture.
  Then the church and its doctrine trumps all laws of man.  
  The church needs to be involved in all facets of life.  If you believe the 
above.

  You can claim to be agnostic or atheistic but a smart person should hedge 
their bets against actually not knowing that they are totally right about that. 
  Could be that every time you eat spaghetti you are committing a mortal sin.  
Could be.  

  For me and mine, I will take my particular flavor of Christianity and do my 
thing, while you do your thing.  
  But if I have an opportunity to legislate away things I consider mortal sins, 
I will try.  

  From: Josh Reynolds 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:54 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

  Why does any church need to be involved with reproductive care, 
contraception, or abortion?

  Those are medical issues.

  On Mar 13, 2016 6:48 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  wrote:

Actually, my belief is here in the deep south we have a church on every 
corner.  Let the churches handle itthey are more than capable.

My tax dollars aren't needed for this. (or many other things)

  - Original Message - 
  From: Ken Hohhof 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:18 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

  What many people who lose sleep over Planned Parenthood are actually 
upset about is they offer birth control.  Some people obsess about poor people 
having sex without the punishment of getting pregnant.  See this if you forgot:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_Limbaugh%E2%80%93Sandra_Fluke_controversy

  I don’t understand how you can be extremely anti-abortion yet also 
extremely anti-contraception.  Less unwanted pregnancies = less abortions.  
Which is the lesser evil?

  I think it comes down to some people are obsessed with sex, especially 
“other” people having sex.  #nosyneighbors #getalife

  From: Josh Reynolds 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:48 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

  Did you research that video? You should. It's not what you think.

  On Mar 13, 2016 5:41 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  
wrote:

Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here.

I don't care about gay marriage.  I'm not gay, I know a handful of gay 
people.  Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right telling 
them what they can or can't do.

Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt.   Now, I'm not so 
sure on that.  When I was growing up there were few gay couples who had "come 
out" and we thought if the girl had a different last name than her mommy we 
thought that was odd.  Quite a bit different now but it could still screw with 
a kids head in terms of "traditional marriage".

It would be hard to NOT state that traditional marriage has gone to 
hell in this country.  But then again, so many "traditional" things have gone 
to hell.  How many women stay at home and take care of the family while dad 
goes to work?

I am in favor of defunding planned parenthood.  The videos pretty much 
got to me.  It's MY TAX DOLLARS.  Defund it.  There are plenty of other 
non-government-funded entities who can do that work.

Any tax is bad :)

I'm going to stop there, i will get in trouble... lol

  - Original Message - 
  From: Josh Reynolds 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:02 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

  His stances:
  Gay marriage is wrong
  He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple
  Defund planned parenthood
  Raising corporate tax is bad
  Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles.
  Wants to drill in ANWR
  Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy.
  Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal

[AFMUG] Fw: Paul Ryan

Nevermind the persecution thing, I didn’t fully read your post properly.   

From: Chuck McCown 
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

If I have a strong feeling that the guy in the sky that created all of us hates 
the murder of babies, yes I will try to stop that via legislation.  How is that 
persecution?  Just trying to carry out the wishes of the boss.  He has promised 
me a pretty nice apartment if I give it a good try.  

Persecution?

From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

So you wish to force your religious beliefs on others via legislation, in a 
country created to escape persecution from religion?

On Mar 13, 2016 11:38 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  Here is why a churches need to be involved with reproductive care, 
contraception, or abortion.

  If you believe there is a God, Creator, Savior etc.
  >Then if you believe that entity cares about these things (listed above).
  >>Then if you believe that the mind of that entity has communicated its 
wishes with man.
  >>>Then if you believe that those wishes are contained in doctrine of 
churches or bodies of scripture.
  Then the church and its doctrine trumps all laws of man.  
  The church needs to be involved in all facets of life.  If you believe the 
above.

  You can claim to be agnostic or atheistic but a smart person should hedge 
their bets against actually not knowing that they are totally right about that. 
  Could be that every time you eat spaghetti you are committing a mortal sin.  
Could be.  

  For me and mine, I will take my particular flavor of Christianity and do my 
thing, while you do your thing.  
  But if I have an opportunity to legislate away things I consider mortal sins, 
I will try.  

  From: Josh Reynolds 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:54 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

  Why does any church need to be involved with reproductive care, 
contraception, or abortion?

  Those are medical issues.

  On Mar 13, 2016 6:48 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  wrote:

Actually, my belief is here in the deep south we have a church on every 
corner.  Let the churches handle itthey are more than capable.

My tax dollars aren't needed for this. (or many other things)

  - Original Message - 
  From: Ken Hohhof 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:18 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

  What many people who lose sleep over Planned Parenthood are actually 
upset about is they offer birth control.  Some people obsess about poor people 
having sex without the punishment of getting pregnant.  See this if you forgot:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_Limbaugh%E2%80%93Sandra_Fluke_controversy

  I don’t understand how you can be extremely anti-abortion yet also 
extremely anti-contraception.  Less unwanted pregnancies = less abortions.  
Which is the lesser evil?

  I think it comes down to some people are obsessed with sex, especially 
“other” people having sex.  #nosyneighbors #getalife

  From: Josh Reynolds 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:48 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

  Did you research that video? You should. It's not what you think.

  On Mar 13, 2016 5:41 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  
wrote:

Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here.

I don't care about gay marriage.  I'm not gay, I know a handful of gay 
people.  Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right telling 
them what they can or can't do.

Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt.   Now, I'm not so 
sure on that.  When I was growing up there were few gay couples who had "come 
out" and we thought if the girl had a different last name than her mommy we 
thought that was odd.  Quite a bit different now but it could still screw with 
a kids head in terms of "traditional marriage".

It would be hard to NOT state that traditional marriage has gone to 
hell in this country.  But then again, so many "traditional" things have gone 
to hell.  How many women stay at home and take care of the family while dad 
goes to work?

I am in favor of defunding planned parenthood.  The videos pretty much 
got to me.  It's MY TAX DOLLARS.  Defund it.  There are plenty of other 
non-government-funded entities who can do that work.

Any tax is bad :)

I'm going to stop there, i will get in trouble... lol

  - Original Message - 
  From: Josh Reynolds 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:02 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

  His stances:
  Gay marriage is wrong
  He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple
  Defund planned parenthood
  Raising corporate tax is bad

Re: [AFMUG] OT Anti-immigration - Puck 1893

That's really simple, Pedro works for 4 dollars an hour, John demands
minimum wage which sets off the tax chain. Farmers prices skyrocket. If the
illegal immigrant flow were to stop, the 4 dollar pool would be depleted.
Then you have a nice massive vaccuum in the ag industry. There is the
opportunity to put welfare to work. Us citizens on welfare now have jobs.
Farmers are already subsidized, move the direct to citizen welfare over to
the ag industry to subsidize payroll, the welfare recipients see a net
increase in tax free income. That's just the ag industry. The biggest issue
is not stopping illegal immigration. A wall would do wonders for that. The
biggest issue is streamlining legal immigration so those who need in, can
actually do so. I'm a proponent of walled border towns for housing,
vetting, and integrating. There's no reason people should be waiting 7
years to known if they're getting kicked to the curb. Slow the illegal
entry of criminals into the US it solidifies the US as an ally to Mexico to
provide material support in combatting directly the cartels. There is no
reason immigration reform has to end with the US and Mexico becoming
enemies.
We absolutely need to hold the ag industry to account as a primary player
in the illegal immigration problems that plague the US. But you can't just
pull the rug out from under a subsidized industry.
On Mar 13, 2016 9:26 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:

> I got to thinking about the labor issue with the farms.  I’m having a hard
> time understanding how we can have tens of millions of people on government
> assistance and we can’t find farm workers.  I’d like to make working on
> farms or other businesses being a requirement for a welfare check.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Reynolds
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 7:09 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Anti-immigration - Puck 1893
>
>
>
> Some are here for jobs, some are here to escape massive corruption and
> drug cartels. These are jobs that most American's don't want to do - either
> the work is "too hard" or pay "too low" - which really the latter is true.
> I came from a farm community (Kentucky Tobacco) and have seen how hard they
> work. Many have two or three jobs, and they share a trailer and a truck.
> They take shifts sleeping on the available beds, and send most of their
> checks home to their families to take care of them. Some save to bring
> their families here. Very few of these workers were paid minimum wage, but
> they were often given a trailer to stay in (for the group). Rows and rows
> of trailers per farm.
>
> You deport these guys, American agriculture will suffer. The farm
> subsidies get sucked up by the conglomerates, and the regular guys get very
> little.
>
> The drug demand has nothing to do with illegal or legal. Have you ever
> done any drugs? Ever? My guess is no, but I've been wrong before - ask my
> wife! Drugs are an escape, a booster, and the harder ones are ruthlessly
> addictive, both physically and psychologically. Just once or twice is
> enough to make it very difficult if not impossible to overcome by yourself,
> if ever. And they are SO CHEAP (meth, heroin).
>
> On Mar 13, 2016 8:49 PM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:
>
> Really, you think we would have massive illegal immigration if we had no
> jobs being offered then?
> You also believe that if nobody demanded drugs there would be people
> killing each other to get it here?
> We can disagree on if punishing a drug user is either right it would make
> any difference on then wanting the drug. But you surely cannot argue that
> it is demand that drives the supply, not the other way around.
> My point is just that the demand for cheap labor and the willingness to
> break the law to get it drives illegal immigration. I think you are letting
> your desire for penalty fee drug use get in the way of your judgement.
> OK, I made that last part up but you really don't understand the basics of
> supply and demand?
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 8:08 PM Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>
> agreed
>
> Legal or illegal, has nothing to do with drugs. If people want to do
> something they will.
>
> On Mar 13, 2016 7:28 PM, "Jerry Head"  wrote:
>
> " Kind of like the drug problem. As long as you don't penalize the user
> you get increasing demand."
>
> This has got to be one of the most ignorant comments I have ever seen on
> this list.
> Wow
>
> On 3/13/2016 6:35 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>
> I agree with that. Kind of like the drug problem. As long as you don't
> penalize the user you get increasing demand. If you don't punish the
> employer you get increasing demand.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 2:56 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
> Far less than many believe you need documentation which of course can
> be faked...but percentage wise more welfare in

[AFMUG] OT: The Expanse

On a lighter note, I'm liking this show so far:

http://www.syfy.com/theexpanse

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

If I have a strong feeling that the guy in the sky that created all of us hates 
the murder of babies, yes I will try to stop that via legislation.  How is that 
persecution?  Just trying to carry out the wishes of the boss.  He has promised 
me a pretty nice apartment if I give it a good try.  

Persecution?

From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

So you wish to force your religious beliefs on others via legislation, in a 
country created to escape persecution from religion?

On Mar 13, 2016 11:38 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  Here is why a churches need to be involved with reproductive care, 
contraception, or abortion.

  If you believe there is a God, Creator, Savior etc.
  >Then if you believe that entity cares about these things (listed above).
  >>Then if you believe that the mind of that entity has communicated its 
wishes with man.
  >>>Then if you believe that those wishes are contained in doctrine of 
churches or bodies of scripture.
  Then the church and its doctrine trumps all laws of man.  
  The church needs to be involved in all facets of life.  If you believe the 
above.

  You can claim to be agnostic or atheistic but a smart person should hedge 
their bets against actually not knowing that they are totally right about that. 
  Could be that every time you eat spaghetti you are committing a mortal sin.  
Could be.  

  For me and mine, I will take my particular flavor of Christianity and do my 
thing, while you do your thing.  
  But if I have an opportunity to legislate away things I consider mortal sins, 
I will try.  

  From: Josh Reynolds 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:54 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

  Why does any church need to be involved with reproductive care, 
contraception, or abortion?

  Those are medical issues.

  On Mar 13, 2016 6:48 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  wrote:

Actually, my belief is here in the deep south we have a church on every 
corner.  Let the churches handle itthey are more than capable.

My tax dollars aren't needed for this. (or many other things)

  - Original Message - 
  From: Ken Hohhof 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:18 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

  What many people who lose sleep over Planned Parenthood are actually 
upset about is they offer birth control.  Some people obsess about poor people 
having sex without the punishment of getting pregnant.  See this if you forgot:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_Limbaugh%E2%80%93Sandra_Fluke_controversy

  I don’t understand how you can be extremely anti-abortion yet also 
extremely anti-contraception.  Less unwanted pregnancies = less abortions.  
Which is the lesser evil?

  I think it comes down to some people are obsessed with sex, especially 
“other” people having sex.  #nosyneighbors #getalife

  From: Josh Reynolds 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:48 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

  Did you research that video? You should. It's not what you think.

  On Mar 13, 2016 5:41 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  
wrote:

Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here.

I don't care about gay marriage.  I'm not gay, I know a handful of gay 
people.  Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right telling 
them what they can or can't do.

Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt.   Now, I'm not so 
sure on that.  When I was growing up there were few gay couples who had "come 
out" and we thought if the girl had a different last name than her mommy we 
thought that was odd.  Quite a bit different now but it could still screw with 
a kids head in terms of "traditional marriage".

It would be hard to NOT state that traditional marriage has gone to 
hell in this country.  But then again, so many "traditional" things have gone 
to hell.  How many women stay at home and take care of the family while dad 
goes to work?

I am in favor of defunding planned parenthood.  The videos pretty much 
got to me.  It's MY TAX DOLLARS.  Defund it.  There are plenty of other 
non-government-funded entities who can do that work.

Any tax is bad :)

I'm going to stop there, i will get in trouble... lol

  - Original Message - 
  From: Josh Reynolds 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:02 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

  His stances:
  Gay marriage is wrong
  He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple
  Defund planned parenthood
  Raising corporate tax is bad
  Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles.
  Wants to drill in ANWR
  Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy.
  Voted no on 4

Re: [AFMUG] OT Anti-immigration - Puck 1893

You are aware there was a welfare reform act passed in 1996?

From: Rory Conaway 
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 11:13 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Anti-immigration - Puck 1893

I was specific Ken, “welfare”.  If I meant to say Social Security, I would have 
said that but I was in a hurry.  However, I would also add, unemployment as a 
huge, anyone that mysteriously became disabled when their unemployment ran out, 
and anyone getting any kind of public assistance. If you are working and can’t 
make ends meet, fine then that needs to be reviewed.  If you aren’t working but 
can and aren’t looking for a job, then you do public works, work on a farm, or 
you lose your benefits.  And mandatory drug testing for ANYONE getting a single 
penny of taxpayer dollars.

Rory 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 8:56 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Anti-immigration - Puck 1893

You need to not use the term “welfare check” and be specific what type of 
government assistance you are talking about.  Unemployment insurance?  Social 
Security?  Medicare/Medicaid?  SNAP?  Housing assistance?  Earned income tax 
credit?  Lifeline?  The answer depends on what kind of assistance you are 
talking about.

As an employer who pays into unemployment insurance, I don’t like the guys I 
see at home playing video games and collecting unemployment insurance who could 
be out working.

And I heard a report once on something like 60 Minutes that disability fraud is 
rampant, with crooked lawyers specializing in submitting the fraudulent 
paperwork.

But I believe most SNAP cards actually go to working parents with minimum wage 
jobs, sometimes more than one job.

My sister with MS needs her Social Security Disability check, she wouldn’t be 
much use on a farm.

So it all depends.

It also depends on the type of farm work.  In the southwest, they need seasonal 
workers to pick crops.  By me there are the pig farms that hire a lot of 
Hispanic workers, it’s not a very attractive job, but it’s not seasonal.  At 
least some of the worst jobs are being automated.  I saw an article that they 
are developing robots to do slaughterhouse work, cutting up the carcasses.  I 
don’t wish that job even on illegal immigrants.

From: Josh Reynolds 

Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 9:35 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Anti-immigration - Puck 1893

That's a tough one.

On one hand, with the government already giving out welfare checks that could 
help with labor costs on small and medium farms - work the farm, get a check. 
So, what's to encourage a farmer to pay more than minimum wage (discouraging 
potential applicants internationally) if he can just tell the Fed "send me 
workers".

I also personally know cases of very good high level workers in various 
industries who had problems for over a year finding a job - but once they 
finally did after hundreds of applications, they were back to making six 
figures or higher. It's hard to work somewhere for 20 years or more and retire 
there unless in government or state work.

Decent idea, but it would need some controls in place so it doesn't cause 
inadvertent issues.

+1

On Mar 13, 2016 9:26 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:

  I got to thinking about the labor issue with the farms.  I’m having a hard 
time understanding how we can have tens of millions of people on government 
assistance and we can’t find farm workers.  I’d like to make working on farms 
or other businesses being a requirement for a welfare check.

  Rory

  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 7:09 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Anti-immigration - Puck 1893

  Some are here for jobs, some are here to escape massive corruption and drug 
cartels. These are jobs that most American's don't want to do - either the work 
is "too hard" or pay "too low" - which really the latter is true. I came from a 
farm community (Kentucky Tobacco) and have seen how hard they work. Many have 
two or three jobs, and they share a trailer and a truck. They take shifts 
sleeping on the available beds, and send most of their checks home to their 
families to take care of them. Some save to bring their families here. Very few 
of these workers were paid minimum wage, but they were often given a trailer to 
stay in (for the group). Rows and rows of trailers per farm.

  You deport these guys, American agriculture will suffer. The farm subsidies 
get sucked up by the conglomerates, and the regular guys get very little.

  The drug demand has nothing to do with illegal or legal. Have you ever done 
any drugs? Ever? My guess is no, but I've been wrong before - ask my wife! 
Drugs are an escape, a booster, and the harder ones are ruthlessly addictive, 
both physically and psychologically. Just once or twice is enough to make it

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

So you wish to force your religious beliefs on others via legislation, in a
country created to escape persecution from religion?
On Mar 13, 2016 11:38 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> Here is why a churches need to be involved with reproductive care,
> contraception, or abortion.
>
> If you believe there is a God, Creator, Savior etc.
> >Then if you believe that entity cares about these things (listed above).
> >>Then if you believe that the mind of that entity has communicated its
> wishes with man.
> >>>Then if you believe that those wishes are contained in doctrine of
> churches or bodies of scripture.
> Then the church and its doctrine trumps all laws of man.
> The church needs to be involved in all facets of life.  If you believe the
> above.
>
> You can claim to be agnostic or atheistic but a smart person should hedge
> their bets against actually not knowing that they are totally right about
> that.   Could be that every time you eat spaghetti you are committing a
> mortal sin.  Could be.
>
> For me and mine, I will take my particular flavor of Christianity and do
> my thing, while you do your thing.
> But if I have an opportunity to legislate away things I consider mortal
> sins, I will try.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:54 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>
>
> Why does any church need to be involved with reproductive care,
> contraception, or abortion?
>
> Those are medical issues.
> On Mar 13, 2016 6:48 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Actually, my belief is here in the deep south we have a church on every
>> corner.  Let the churches handle itthey are more than capable.
>>
>> My tax dollars aren't needed for this. (or many other things)
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Ken Hohhof 
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:18 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>
>> What many people who lose sleep over Planned Parenthood are actually
>> upset about is they offer birth control.  Some people obsess about poor
>> people having sex without the punishment of getting pregnant.  See this if
>> you forgot:
>>
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_Limbaugh%E2%80%93Sandra_Fluke_controversy
>>
>> I don’t understand how you can be extremely anti-abortion yet also
>> extremely anti-contraception.  Less unwanted pregnancies = less abortions.
>> Which is the lesser evil?
>>
>> I think it comes down to some people are obsessed with sex, especially
>> “other” people having sex.  #nosyneighbors #getalife
>>
>>
>> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:48 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>
>>
>> Did you research that video? You should. It's not what you think.
>> On Mar 13, 2016 5:41 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here.
>>>
>>> I don't care about gay marriage.  I'm not gay, I know a handful of gay
>>> people.  Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right
>>> telling them what they can or can't do.
>>>
>>> Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt.   Now, I'm not so
>>> sure on that.  When I was growing up there were few gay couples who had
>>> "come out" and we thought if the girl had a different last name than her
>>> mommy we thought that was odd.  Quite a bit different now but it could
>>> still screw with a kids head in terms of "traditional marriage".
>>>
>>> It would be hard to NOT state that traditional marriage has gone to hell
>>> in this country.  But then again, so many "traditional" things have gone to
>>> hell.  How many women stay at home and take care of the family while dad
>>> goes to work?
>>>
>>> I am in favor of defunding planned parenthood.  The videos pretty much
>>> got to me.  It's MY TAX DOLLARS.  Defund it.  There are plenty of other
>>> non-government-funded entities who can do that work.
>>>
>>> Any tax is bad :)
>>>
>>> I'm going to stop there, i will get in trouble... lol
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:02 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>>
>>> His stances:
>>> Gay marriage is wrong
>>> He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple
>>> Defund planned parenthood
>>> Raising corporate tax is bad
>>> Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles.
>>> Wants to drill in ANWR
>>> Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy.
>>> Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees.
>>> Votes for PATRIOT act over and over
>>> Voted to allow warantless electronic surveillance against us citizens
>>> Denied additional funding that would provide expanded child healthcare
>>> "Let's build a fence!"
>>> Voted NO on reporting / deporting illegal immigrants who received
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

I firmly believe that people should have to right to practice their
religion and live the way they like.  However, when those beliefs are
forced down other people's throats I start to have a very real problem with
it.  The separation of church and state in this country is essential, and
all the things you have listed above are absolutely religious issues.

On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 11:38 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Here is why a churches need to be involved with reproductive care,
> contraception, or abortion.
>
> If you believe there is a God, Creator, Savior etc.
> >Then if you believe that entity cares about these things (listed above).
> >>Then if you believe that the mind of that entity has communicated its
> wishes with man.
> >>>Then if you believe that those wishes are contained in doctrine of
> churches or bodies of scripture.
> Then the church and its doctrine trumps all laws of man.
> The church needs to be involved in all facets of life.  If you believe the
> above.
>
> You can claim to be agnostic or atheistic but a smart person should hedge
> their bets against actually not knowing that they are totally right about
> that.   Could be that every time you eat spaghetti you are committing a
> mortal sin.  Could be.
>
> For me and mine, I will take my particular flavor of Christianity and do
> my thing, while you do your thing.
> But if I have an opportunity to legislate away things I consider mortal
> sins, I will try.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:54 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>
>
> Why does any church need to be involved with reproductive care,
> contraception, or abortion?
>
> Those are medical issues.
> On Mar 13, 2016 6:48 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Actually, my belief is here in the deep south we have a church on every
>> corner.  Let the churches handle itthey are more than capable.
>>
>> My tax dollars aren't needed for this. (or many other things)
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Ken Hohhof 
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:18 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>
>> What many people who lose sleep over Planned Parenthood are actually
>> upset about is they offer birth control.  Some people obsess about poor
>> people having sex without the punishment of getting pregnant.  See this if
>> you forgot:
>>
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_Limbaugh%E2%80%93Sandra_Fluke_controversy
>>
>> I don’t understand how you can be extremely anti-abortion yet also
>> extremely anti-contraception.  Less unwanted pregnancies = less abortions.
>> Which is the lesser evil?
>>
>> I think it comes down to some people are obsessed with sex, especially
>> “other” people having sex.  #nosyneighbors #getalife
>>
>>
>> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:48 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>
>>
>> Did you research that video? You should. It's not what you think.
>> On Mar 13, 2016 5:41 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here.
>>>
>>> I don't care about gay marriage.  I'm not gay, I know a handful of gay
>>> people.  Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right
>>> telling them what they can or can't do.
>>>
>>> Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt.   Now, I'm not so
>>> sure on that.  When I was growing up there were few gay couples who had
>>> "come out" and we thought if the girl had a different last name than her
>>> mommy we thought that was odd.  Quite a bit different now but it could
>>> still screw with a kids head in terms of "traditional marriage".
>>>
>>> It would be hard to NOT state that traditional marriage has gone to hell
>>> in this country.  But then again, so many "traditional" things have gone to
>>> hell.  How many women stay at home and take care of the family while dad
>>> goes to work?
>>>
>>> I am in favor of defunding planned parenthood.  The videos pretty much
>>> got to me.  It's MY TAX DOLLARS.  Defund it.  There are plenty of other
>>> non-government-funded entities who can do that work.
>>>
>>> Any tax is bad :)
>>>
>>> I'm going to stop there, i will get in trouble... lol
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:02 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>>
>>> His stances:
>>> Gay marriage is wrong
>>> He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple
>>> Defund planned parenthood
>>> Raising corporate tax is bad
>>> Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles.
>>> Wants to drill in ANWR
>>> Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy.
>>> Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees.
>>> Votes for PATRIOT act over and over
>>> Voted to allow

Re: [AFMUG] "Attack on trump" video

Watch out, you’re sounding like “certain people”.

(I think that means “losers”.)

From: Jason McKemie 
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 11:35 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "Attack on trump" video

Wow. You're really eating that stuff up huh? He seems like a pretty big scumbag 
to me. It's all fun and games when he's on reality shows, but people thinking 
he'd be a good fit for one of most important elected positions in the world is 
a bit disconcerting to me. It's like watching Idiocracy play out, only in a 
less humorous way than depicted in the movie.

On Sunday, March 13, 2016, Jon Langeler  wrote:

  +1 Trump isn't awesome but it means we're getting rid of all the stupid 
stuff. Yes he says some things that are then twisted, but it's because he's a 
winner and certain people don't like those kind of people.

  Jon Langeler
  Michwave Technologies, Inc.

  On Mar 13, 2016, at 2:36 PM, Rory Conaway 
 wrote:

And I appreciate the honesty except that I believe you are wrong by 
painting everyone with the same brush.  I’m not a Trump fanatic, I’m just an 
anti-everyone else who I already know person. 

1)  For every bad businessman who became a politician, I can show you a 
good one.  They are no better or worse than any of the lawyers we have had and 
I can argue the lawyers have been the worst and most corrupt.

2)  The mistake I think you are making is that a politician is a good 
thing.  At this point, running a country, state, or even a city is like running 
a company.  If you don’t understand the economics of the business, you are 
doomed, hence the stupid statements by a Nancy Pelosi who says “we don’t have 
spending problem, we have a deficit problem”.  Therefore you want a CEO 
experience set.

3)  It’s wrong to say a business person runs thing like a dictatorship. 
 The reality is that a CEO has to bring the people who work for him into the 
same vision.  If he doesn’t, the business fails.  That’s pure political 
experience right there.

4)  You and I simply aren’t going to agree on the Obama decision as I 
agree with Trump.  Everything he did, including all the decisions with the FCC 
and the influence of Google and the lobbyists that have hurt this industry, 
start with him, even if he was told what to do.  At the same time, the 
Republicans have been bought and sold by big companies also, I have no answer 
here.  So given no good answer, how about trying something new, it simply can’t 
get worse.

5)  The lusting comment was completely misunderstood.  It was his way 
of saying his daughter is beautiful.  Yea, it was inappropriate but I could say 
the sky is blue and my enemies would tell me that I hate the sky since I think 
it’s depressing.  Of course, they could also say I am racist which they have, 
regardless of how despicable and untrue it is.  Anyone who knows me, and you 
clearly don’t, know I abhor racism at all levels, regardless of who is 
promoting it on either side.  I hate race hustlers and excuses for failure, big 
difference.

Rory

From: Af [javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af-boun...@afmug.com');] On Behalf 
Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:41 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "Attack on trump" video

I stand by what I posted.   Business men have done poorly as politicians 
for the most part.   You need statesmanship and working knowledge of how system 
works.   Its not a CEO position or dictatorship. our government works 
because of separation of powersthe checks and balance is set up to prevent 
this.   Congress has the lowest rating ever even though Republicans run it.  
They are so bent on stopping anything Obama does that it is beyond stupid.  
Trump is a pervert who lusted for his daughter... that alone is bad...he lies 
about illegal workers under his watch, he lies about everything just about,  no 
one has had more fact checks disprove him.  I don't revise history...I don't 
skew the answers,  I don't cover for politiciansI don't swallow the bull 
shitI call it as I see it based on research from different sources not 
Facebook or Fox Tv. I watch Fox to compare to others I watchgreat thing I 
have Direct and TWC...I get to hear different perspectives from BBC, Deutsche 
Wells, Indian Times, Japanese and Mexican stations as well   Some in English 
and some not...thank you pops for encouraging us to learn several languages 
besides American!   If the shoe fits,  don't take it off...your state Rory like 
my adopted state of Texas are full of racists who like Trump is saying.  But 
thank God we are not all that dim witted to follow a fool.   Almost has a 
fanatical flavor just like idiots that take the Islamic beliefs and turn into a 
terror based murder system. Any fanaticism is wrong.Trump followers are 
like heroin addicts... they don't care about anything

Re: [AFMUG] "Attack on trump" video

My kids and grandkids pretend at least to love me.  To me that is being a 
winner.  I don’t really know of any other definition.  

From: Jason McKemie 
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:35 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "Attack on trump" video

Wow. You're really eating that stuff up huh? He seems like a pretty big scumbag 
to me. It's all fun and games when he's on reality shows, but people thinking 
he'd be a good fit for one of most important elected positions in the world is 
a bit disconcerting to me. It's like watching Idiocracy play out, only in a 
less humorous way than depicted in the movie.

On Sunday, March 13, 2016, Jon Langeler  wrote:

  +1 Trump isn't awesome but it means we're getting rid of all the stupid 
stuff. Yes he says some things that are then twisted, but it's because he's a 
winner and certain people don't like those kind of people.

  Jon Langeler
  Michwave Technologies, Inc.

  On Mar 13, 2016, at 2:36 PM, Rory Conaway 
 wrote:

And I appreciate the honesty except that I believe you are wrong by 
painting everyone with the same brush.  I’m not a Trump fanatic, I’m just an 
anti-everyone else who I already know person. 

1)  For every bad businessman who became a politician, I can show you a 
good one.  They are no better or worse than any of the lawyers we have had and 
I can argue the lawyers have been the worst and most corrupt.

2)  The mistake I think you are making is that a politician is a good 
thing.  At this point, running a country, state, or even a city is like running 
a company.  If you don’t understand the economics of the business, you are 
doomed, hence the stupid statements by a Nancy Pelosi who says “we don’t have 
spending problem, we have a deficit problem”.  Therefore you want a CEO 
experience set.

3)  It’s wrong to say a business person runs thing like a dictatorship. 
 The reality is that a CEO has to bring the people who work for him into the 
same vision.  If he doesn’t, the business fails.  That’s pure political 
experience right there.

4)  You and I simply aren’t going to agree on the Obama decision as I 
agree with Trump.  Everything he did, including all the decisions with the FCC 
and the influence of Google and the lobbyists that have hurt this industry, 
start with him, even if he was told what to do.  At the same time, the 
Republicans have been bought and sold by big companies also, I have no answer 
here.  So given no good answer, how about trying something new, it simply can’t 
get worse.

5)  The lusting comment was completely misunderstood.  It was his way 
of saying his daughter is beautiful.  Yea, it was inappropriate but I could say 
the sky is blue and my enemies would tell me that I hate the sky since I think 
it’s depressing.  Of course, they could also say I am racist which they have, 
regardless of how despicable and untrue it is.  Anyone who knows me, and you 
clearly don’t, know I abhor racism at all levels, regardless of who is 
promoting it on either side.  I hate race hustlers and excuses for failure, big 
difference.

Rory

From: Af [javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af-boun...@afmug.com');] On Behalf 
Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:41 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "Attack on trump" video

I stand by what I posted.   Business men have done poorly as politicians 
for the most part.   You need statesmanship and working knowledge of how system 
works.   Its not a CEO position or dictatorship. our government works 
because of separation of powersthe checks and balance is set up to prevent 
this.   Congress has the lowest rating ever even though Republicans run it.  
They are so bent on stopping anything Obama does that it is beyond stupid.  
Trump is a pervert who lusted for his daughter... that alone is bad...he lies 
about illegal workers under his watch, he lies about everything just about,  no 
one has had more fact checks disprove him.  I don't revise history...I don't 
skew the answers,  I don't cover for politiciansI don't swallow the bull 
shitI call it as I see it based on research from different sources not 
Facebook or Fox Tv. I watch Fox to compare to others I watchgreat thing I 
have Direct and TWC...I get to hear different perspectives from BBC, Deutsche 
Wells, Indian Times, Japanese and Mexican stations as well   Some in English 
and some not...thank you pops for encouraging us to learn several languages 
besides American!   If the shoe fits,  don't take it off...your state Rory like 
my adopted state of Texas are full of racists who like Trump is saying.  But 
thank God we are not all that dim witted to follow a fool.   Almost has a 
fanatical flavor just like idiots that take the Islamic beliefs and turn into a 
terror based murder system. Any fanaticism is wrong.Trump followers are 
like

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

Here is why a churches need to be involved with reproductive care, 
contraception, or abortion.

If you believe there is a God, Creator, Savior etc.
>Then if you believe that entity cares about these things (listed above).
>>Then if you believe that the mind of that entity has communicated its wishes 
>>with man.
>>>Then if you believe that those wishes are contained in doctrine of churches 
>>>or bodies of scripture.
Then the church and its doctrine trumps all laws of man.  
The church needs to be involved in all facets of life.  If you believe the 
above.

You can claim to be agnostic or atheistic but a smart person should hedge their 
bets against actually not knowing that they are totally right about that.   
Could be that every time you eat spaghetti you are committing a mortal sin.  
Could be.  

For me and mine, I will take my particular flavor of Christianity and do my 
thing, while you do your thing.  
But if I have an opportunity to legislate away things I consider mortal sins, I 
will try.  

From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:54 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

Why does any church need to be involved with reproductive care, contraception, 
or abortion?

Those are medical issues.

On Mar 13, 2016 6:48 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  wrote:

  Actually, my belief is here in the deep south we have a church on every 
corner.  Let the churches handle itthey are more than capable.

  My tax dollars aren't needed for this. (or many other things)

- Original Message - 
From: Ken Hohhof 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

What many people who lose sleep over Planned Parenthood are actually upset 
about is they offer birth control.  Some people obsess about poor people having 
sex without the punishment of getting pregnant.  See this if you forgot:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_Limbaugh%E2%80%93Sandra_Fluke_controversy

I don’t understand how you can be extremely anti-abortion yet also 
extremely anti-contraception.  Less unwanted pregnancies = less abortions.  
Which is the lesser evil?

I think it comes down to some people are obsessed with sex, especially 
“other” people having sex.  #nosyneighbors #getalife

From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:48 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

Did you research that video? You should. It's not what you think.

On Mar 13, 2016 5:41 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  
wrote:

  Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here.

  I don't care about gay marriage.  I'm not gay, I know a handful of gay 
people.  Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right telling 
them what they can or can't do.

  Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt.   Now, I'm not so 
sure on that.  When I was growing up there were few gay couples who had "come 
out" and we thought if the girl had a different last name than her mommy we 
thought that was odd.  Quite a bit different now but it could still screw with 
a kids head in terms of "traditional marriage".

  It would be hard to NOT state that traditional marriage has gone to hell 
in this country.  But then again, so many "traditional" things have gone to 
hell.  How many women stay at home and take care of the family while dad goes 
to work?

  I am in favor of defunding planned parenthood.  The videos pretty much 
got to me.  It's MY TAX DOLLARS.  Defund it.  There are plenty of other 
non-government-funded entities who can do that work.

  Any tax is bad :)

  I'm going to stop there, i will get in trouble... lol

- Original Message - 
From: Josh Reynolds 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

His stances:
Gay marriage is wrong
He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple
Defund planned parenthood
Raising corporate tax is bad
Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles.
Wants to drill in ANWR
Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy.
Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees.
Votes for PATRIOT act over and over
Voted to allow warantless electronic surveillance against us citizens
Denied additional funding that would provide expanded child healthcare
"Let's build a fence!"
Voted NO on reporting / deporting illegal immigrants who received 
hospital treatment

Etc. A few things I like him on, but mostly he's a "nope" for me.

On Mar 13, 2016 4:46 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:

  Hey, I said I liked him.  Just not full on man crush.

  I didn’t see how his math added up for the budgets he proposed.  
There were some missing pages where magic happened to balance the

Re: [AFMUG] "Attack on trump" video

Wow. You're really eating that stuff up huh? He seems like a pretty big
scumbag to me. It's all fun and games when he's on reality shows, but
people thinking he'd be a good fit for one of most important elected
positions in the world is a bit disconcerting to me. It's like watching
Idiocracy play out, only in a less humorous way than depicted in the movie.

On Sunday, March 13, 2016, Jon Langeler  wrote:

> +1 Trump isn't awesome but it means we're getting rid of all the stupid
> stuff. Yes he says some things that are then twisted, but it's because he's
> a winner and certain people don't like those kind of people.
>
> Jon Langeler
> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>
> On Mar 13, 2016, at 2:36 PM, Rory Conaway  > wrote:
>
> And I appreciate the honesty except that I believe you are wrong by
> painting everyone with the same brush.  I’m not a Trump fanatic, I’m just
> an anti-everyone else who I already know person.
>
>
>
> 1)  For every bad businessman who became a politician, I can show you
> a good one.  They are no better or worse than any of the lawyers we have
> had and I can argue the lawyers have been the worst and most corrupt.
>
> 2)  The mistake I think you are making is that a politician is a good
> thing.  At this point, running a country, state, or even a city is like
> running a company.  If you don’t understand the economics of the business,
> you are doomed, hence the stupid statements by a Nancy Pelosi who says “we
> don’t have spending problem, we have a deficit problem”.  Therefore you
> want a CEO experience set.
>
> 3)  It’s wrong to say a business person runs thing like a
> dictatorship.  The reality is that a CEO has to bring the people who work
> for him into the same vision.  If he doesn’t, the business fails.  That’s
> pure political experience right there.
>
> 4)  You and I simply aren’t going to agree on the Obama decision as I
> agree with Trump.  Everything he did, including all the decisions with the
> FCC and the influence of Google and the lobbyists that have hurt this
> industry, start with him, even if he was told what to do.  At the same
> time, the Republicans have been bought and sold by big companies also, I
> have no answer here.  So given no good answer, how about trying something
> new, it simply can’t get worse.
>
> 5)  The lusting comment was completely misunderstood.  It was his way
> of saying his daughter is beautiful.  Yea, it was inappropriate but I could
> say the sky is blue and my enemies would tell me that I hate the sky since
> I think it’s depressing.  Of course, they could also say I am racist which
> they have, regardless of how despicable and untrue it is.  Anyone who knows
> me, and you clearly don’t, know I abhor racism at all levels, regardless of
> who is promoting it on either side.  I hate race hustlers and excuses for
> failure, big difference.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *Jaime
> Solorza
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:41 AM
> *To:* Animal Farm
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "Attack on trump" video
>
>
>
> I stand by what I posted.   Business men have done poorly as politicians
> for the most part.   You need statesmanship and working knowledge of how
> system works.   Its not a CEO position or dictatorship. our government
> works because of separation of powersthe checks and balance is set up
> to prevent this.   Congress has the lowest rating ever even though
> Republicans run it.  They are so bent on stopping anything Obama does that
> it is beyond stupid.  Trump is a pervert who lusted for his daughter...
> that alone is bad...he lies about illegal workers under his watch, he lies
> about everything just about,  no one has had more fact checks disprove
> him.  I don't revise history...I don't skew the answers,  I don't cover for
> politiciansI don't swallow the bull shitI call it as I see it based
> on research from different sources not Facebook or Fox Tv. I watch Fox to
> compare to others I watchgreat thing I have Direct and TWC...I get to
> hear different perspectives from BBC, Deutsche Wells, Indian Times,
> Japanese and Mexican stations as well   Some in English and some
> not...thank you pops for encouraging us to learn several languages besides
> American!   If the shoe fits,  don't take it off...your state Rory like my
> adopted state of Texas are full of racists who like Trump is saying.  But
> thank God we are not all that dim witted to follow a fool.   Almost has a
> fanatical flavor just like idiots that take the Islamic beliefs and turn
> into a terror based murder system. Any fanaticism is wrong.Trump
> followers are like heroin addicts... they don't care about anything but
> their fix so craven lackey fits.
>
> On Mar 13, 2016 11:12 AM, "Rory Conaway"

Re: [AFMUG] OT Anti-immigration - Puck 1893

I was specific Ken, “welfare”.  If I meant to say Social Security, I would have 
said that but I was in a hurry.  However, I would also add, unemployment as a 
huge, anyone that mysteriously became disabled when their unemployment ran out, 
and anyone getting any kind of public assistance. If you are working and can’t 
make ends meet, fine then that needs to be reviewed.  If you aren’t working but 
can and aren’t looking for a job, then you do public works, work on a farm, or 
you lose your benefits.  And mandatory drug testing for ANYONE getting a single 
penny of taxpayer dollars.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 8:56 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Anti-immigration - Puck 1893

You need to not use the term “welfare check” and be specific what type of 
government assistance you are talking about.  Unemployment insurance?  Social 
Security?  Medicare/Medicaid?  SNAP?  Housing assistance?  Earned income tax 
credit?  Lifeline?  The answer depends on what kind of assistance you are 
talking about.

As an employer who pays into unemployment insurance, I don’t like the guys I 
see at home playing video games and collecting unemployment insurance who could 
be out working.

And I heard a report once on something like 60 Minutes that disability fraud is 
rampant, with crooked lawyers specializing in submitting the fraudulent 
paperwork.

But I believe most SNAP cards actually go to working parents with minimum wage 
jobs, sometimes more than one job.

My sister with MS needs her Social Security Disability check, she wouldn’t be 
much use on a farm.

So it all depends.

It also depends on the type of farm work.  In the southwest, they need seasonal 
workers to pick crops.  By me there are the pig farms that hire a lot of 
Hispanic workers, it’s not a very attractive job, but it’s not seasonal.  At 
least some of the worst jobs are being automated.  I saw an article that they 
are developing robots to do slaughterhouse work, cutting up the carcasses.  I 
don’t wish that job even on illegal immigrants.


From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 9:35 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Anti-immigration - Puck 1893


That's a tough one.

On one hand, with the government already giving out welfare checks that could 
help with labor costs on small and medium farms - work the farm, get a check. 
So, what's to encourage a farmer to pay more than minimum wage (discouraging 
potential applicants internationally) if he can just tell the Fed "send me 
workers".

I also personally know cases of very good high level workers in various 
industries who had problems for over a year finding a job - but once they 
finally did after hundreds of applications, they were back to making six 
figures or higher. It's hard to work somewhere for 20 years or more and retire 
there unless in government or state work.

Decent idea, but it would need some controls in place so it doesn't cause 
inadvertent issues.

+1
On Mar 13, 2016 9:26 PM, "Rory Conaway" 
> wrote:
I got to thinking about the labor issue with the farms.  I’m having a hard time 
understanding how we can have tens of millions of people on government 
assistance and we can’t find farm workers.  I’d like to make working on farms 
or other businesses being a requirement for a welfare check.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Josh Reynolds
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 7:09 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Anti-immigration - Puck 1893


Some are here for jobs, some are here to escape massive corruption and drug 
cartels. These are jobs that most American's don't want to do - either the work 
is "too hard" or pay "too low" - which really the latter is true. I came from a 
farm community (Kentucky Tobacco) and have seen how hard they work. Many have 
two or three jobs, and they share a trailer and a truck. They take shifts 
sleeping on the available beds, and send most of their checks home to their 
families to take care of them. Some save to bring their families here. Very few 
of these workers were paid minimum wage, but they were often given a trailer to 
stay in (for the group). Rows and rows of trailers per farm.

You deport these guys, American agriculture will suffer. The farm subsidies get 
sucked up by the conglomerates, and the regular guys get very little.

The drug demand has nothing to do with illegal or legal. Have you ever done any 
drugs? Ever? My guess is no, but I've been wrong before - ask my wife! Drugs 
are an escape, a booster, and the harder ones are ruthlessly addictive, both 
physically and psychologically. Just once or twice is enough to make it very 
difficult if not impossible to overcome by yourself, if ever. And they are SO 
CHEAP (meth, heroin).
On Mar 13, 2016 8:49 PM,

Re: [AFMUG] "Attack on trump" video

2016-03-13 Thread Jon Langeler

+1 Trump isn't awesome but it means we're getting rid of all the stupid stuff. 
Yes he says some things that are then twisted, but it's because he's a winner 
and certain people don't like those kind of people.

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.

> On Mar 13, 2016, at 2:36 PM, Rory Conaway  wrote:
> 
> And I appreciate the honesty except that I believe you are wrong by painting 
> everyone with the same brush.  I’m not a Trump fanatic, I’m just an 
> anti-everyone else who I already know person.
>  
> 1)  For every bad businessman who became a politician, I can show you a 
> good one.  They are no better or worse than any of the lawyers we have had 
> and  I can argue the lawyers have been the worst and most corrupt.
> 2)  The mistake I think you are making is that a politician is a good 
> thing.  At this point, running a country, state, or even a city is like 
> running a company.  If you don’t understand the economics of the business, 
> you are doomed, hence the stupid statements by a Nancy Pelosi who says “we 
> don’t have spending problem, we have a deficit problem”.  Therefore you want 
> a CEO experience set.
> 3)  It’s wrong to say a business person runs thing like a dictatorship.  
> The reality is that a CEO has to bring the people who work for him into the 
> same vision.  If he doesn’t, the business fails.  That’s pure political 
> experience right there.
> 4)  You and I simply aren’t going to agree on the Obama decision as I 
> agree with Trump.  Everything he did, including all the decisions with the 
> FCC and the influence of Google and the lobbyists that have hurt this 
> industry, start with him, even if he was told what to do.  At the same time, 
> the Republicans have been bought and sold by big companies also, I have no 
> answer here.  So given no good answer, how about trying something new, it 
> simply can’t get worse.
> 5)  The lusting comment was completely misunderstood.  It was his way of 
> saying his daughter is beautiful.  Yea, it was inappropriate but I could say 
> the sky is blue and my enemies would tell me that I hate the sky since I 
> think it’s depressing.  Of course, they could also say I am racist which they 
> have, regardless of how despicable and untrue it is.  Anyone who knows me, 
> and you clearly don’t, know I abhor racism at all levels, regardless of who 
> is promoting it on either side.  I hate race hustlers and excuses for 
> failure, big difference.
>  
> Rory
>  
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 10:41 AM
> To: Animal Farm
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "Attack on trump" video
>  
> I stand by what I posted.   Business men have done poorly as politicians for 
> the most part.   You need statesmanship and working knowledge of how system 
> works.   Its not a CEO position or dictatorship. our government works 
> because of separation of powersthe checks and balance is set up to 
> prevent this.   Congress has the lowest rating ever even though Republicans 
> run it.  They are so bent on stopping anything Obama does that it is beyond 
> stupid.  Trump is a pervert who lusted for his daughter... that alone is 
> bad...he lies about illegal workers under his watch, he lies about everything 
> just about,  no one has had more fact checks disprove him.  I don't revise 
> history...I don't skew the answers,  I don't cover for politiciansI don't 
> swallow the bull shitI call it as I see it based on research from 
> different sources not Facebook or Fox Tv. I watch Fox to compare to others I 
> watchgreat thing I have Direct and TWC...I get to hear different 
> perspectives from BBC, Deutsche Wells, Indian Times, Japanese and Mexican 
> stations as well   Some in English and some not...thank you pops for 
> encouraging us to learn several languages besides American!   If the shoe 
> fits,  don't take it off...your state Rory like my adopted state of Texas are 
> full of racists who like Trump is saying.  But thank God we are not all that 
> dim witted to follow a fool.   Almost has a fanatical flavor just like idiots 
> that take the Islamic beliefs and turn into a terror based murder system. 
> Any fanaticism is wrong.Trump followers are like heroin addicts... they 
> don't care about anything but their fix so craven lackey fits.  
> 
> On Mar 13, 2016 11:12 AM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:
> Seriously Jaime, craven lackeys?  I guess I’ve been called worse.  Are you 
> even curious why both the Republican establishment and George Soros are both 
> out to get him?  And don’t you want to find out what would happen if we put a 
> real businessman in the White House instead of some stooge? As businessmen 
> yourselves, I thought you would respect that.  Instead, you are more 
> interested in your ideology than your economic welfare.
>  
> There are those of us who simply want someone in power for once who

Re: [AFMUG] OT Anti-immigration - Puck 1893

You need to not use the term “welfare check” and be specific what type of 
government assistance you are talking about.  Unemployment insurance?  Social 
Security?  Medicare/Medicaid?  SNAP?  Housing assistance?  Earned income tax 
credit?  Lifeline?  The answer depends on what kind of assistance you are 
talking about.

As an employer who pays into unemployment insurance, I don’t like the guys I 
see at home playing video games and collecting unemployment insurance who could 
be out working.

And I heard a report once on something like 60 Minutes that disability fraud is 
rampant, with crooked lawyers specializing in submitting the fraudulent 
paperwork.

But I believe most SNAP cards actually go to working parents with minimum wage 
jobs, sometimes more than one job.

My sister with MS needs her Social Security Disability check, she wouldn’t be 
much use on a farm.

So it all depends.

It also depends on the type of farm work.  In the southwest, they need seasonal 
workers to pick crops.  By me there are the pig farms that hire a lot of 
Hispanic workers, it’s not a very attractive job, but it’s not seasonal.  At 
least some of the worst jobs are being automated.  I saw an article that they 
are developing robots to do slaughterhouse work, cutting up the carcasses.  I 
don’t wish that job even on illegal immigrants.


From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 9:35 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Anti-immigration - Puck 1893

That's a tough one.

On one hand, with the government already giving out welfare checks that could 
help with labor costs on small and medium farms - work the farm, get a check. 
So, what's to encourage a farmer to pay more than minimum wage (discouraging 
potential applicants internationally) if he can just tell the Fed "send me 
workers".

I also personally know cases of very good high level workers in various 
industries who had problems for over a year finding a job - but once they 
finally did after hundreds of applications, they were back to making six 
figures or higher. It's hard to work somewhere for 20 years or more and retire 
there unless in government or state work.

Decent idea, but it would need some controls in place so it doesn't cause 
inadvertent issues.

+1

On Mar 13, 2016 9:26 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:

  I got to thinking about the labor issue with the farms.  I’m having a hard 
time understanding how we can have tens of millions of people on government 
assistance and we can’t find farm workers.  I’d like to make working on farms 
or other businesses being a requirement for a welfare check.



  Rory



  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 7:09 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Anti-immigration - Puck 1893



  Some are here for jobs, some are here to escape massive corruption and drug 
cartels. These are jobs that most American's don't want to do - either the work 
is "too hard" or pay "too low" - which really the latter is true. I came from a 
farm community (Kentucky Tobacco) and have seen how hard they work. Many have 
two or three jobs, and they share a trailer and a truck. They take shifts 
sleeping on the available beds, and send most of their checks home to their 
families to take care of them. Some save to bring their families here. Very few 
of these workers were paid minimum wage, but they were often given a trailer to 
stay in (for the group). Rows and rows of trailers per farm.

  You deport these guys, American agriculture will suffer. The farm subsidies 
get sucked up by the conglomerates, and the regular guys get very little.

  The drug demand has nothing to do with illegal or legal. Have you ever done 
any drugs? Ever? My guess is no, but I've been wrong before - ask my wife! 
Drugs are an escape, a booster, and the harder ones are ruthlessly addictive, 
both physically and psychologically. Just once or twice is enough to make it 
very difficult if not impossible to overcome by yourself, if ever. And they are 
SO CHEAP (meth, heroin).

  On Mar 13, 2016 8:49 PM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:

Really, you think we would have massive illegal immigration if we had no 
jobs being offered then?
You also believe that if nobody demanded drugs there would be people 
killing each other to get it here?
We can disagree on if punishing a drug user is either right it would make 
any difference on then wanting the drug. But you surely cannot argue that it is 
demand that drives the supply, not the other way around. 
My point is just that the demand for cheap labor and the willingness to 
break the law to get it drives illegal immigration. I think you are letting 
your desire for penalty fee drug use get in the way of your judgement.
OK, I made that last part up but you really don't understand the basics of 
supply and demand?



On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 8:08 PM Josh Reynolds

Re: [AFMUG] This is all your fault Jaime S

2016-03-13 Thread Jay Weekley


No pictures?

Josh Reynolds wrote:


So I paid attention to Jaime's Mexican steak recipe a few weeks ago.

I made tacos and fajitas tonight, green peppers, onion, fresh garlic, 
salt, pepper, homemade taco seasoning, hand made flour tortillas, 
cayenne pepper and lime on everything, lettuce, 4 cheese blend, 
refried beans, Mexican rice, sour cream...


My problem though is my wife made 2 dozen homemade chocolate chip 
cookies yesterday, and over 120 butter cookies.


I'm too fat to eat more, and they all look too good to not eat!

Thanks Jaime! :)

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan


Ok, i've given this a little more thought while running around in town running 
errandsand i can see it from both sides.
we're in a town of like 16,000.  We don't have a planned parenthood.  In fact, 
they're pretty much in urban areas - - so it is a moot point here anyway.  
Small townsat least in my opinionits the churches and families who 
handle thes things.


  - Original Message - 
  From: Josh Reynolds 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 8:27 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan


  Catholic? Muslim? Buddhist? Baptist? Jewish? Etc.

  Which?

  Wait... Church for education?!?!

  On Mar 13, 2016 8:21 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  wrote:


In my opinion they (the church) aren't far from families in need, need 
food, need education, need emotional support.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Josh Reynolds 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 7:54 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan


  Why does any church need to be involved with reproductive care, 
contraception, or abortion?

  Those are medical issues.

  On Mar 13, 2016 6:48 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  
wrote:


Actually, my belief is here in the deep south we have a church on every 
corner.  Let the churches handle itthey are more than capable.

My tax dollars aren't needed for this. (or many other things)

  - Original Message - 
  From: Ken Hohhof 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:18 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan


  What many people who lose sleep over Planned Parenthood are actually 
upset about is they offer birth control.  Some people obsess about poor people 
having sex without the punishment of getting pregnant.  See this if you forgot:

  
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_Limbaugh%E2%80%93Sandra_Fluke_controversy

  I don’t understand how you can be extremely anti-abortion yet also 
extremely anti-contraception.  Less unwanted pregnancies = less abortions.  
Which is the lesser evil?

  I think it comes down to some people are obsessed with sex, 
especially “other” people having sex.  #nosyneighbors #getalife


  From: Josh Reynolds 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:48 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

  Did you research that video? You should. It's not what you think.

  On Mar 13, 2016 5:41 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
 wrote:


Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here.

I don't care about gay marriage.  I'm not gay, I know a handful of 
gay people.  Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right 
telling them what they can or can't do.

Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt.   Now, I'm 
not so sure on that.  When I was growing up there were few gay couples who had 
"come out" and we thought if the girl had a different last name than her mommy 
we thought that was odd.  Quite a bit different now but it could still screw 
with a kids head in terms of "traditional marriage".

It would be hard to NOT state that traditional marriage has gone to 
hell in this country.  But then again, so many "traditional" things have gone 
to hell.  How many women stay at home and take care of the family while dad 
goes to work?

I am in favor of defunding planned parenthood.  The videos pretty 
much got to me.  It's MY TAX DOLLARS.  Defund it.  There are plenty of other 
non-government-funded entities who can do that work.

Any tax is bad :)

I'm going to stop there, i will get in trouble... lol




  - Original Message - 
  From: Josh Reynolds 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:02 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan


  His stances:
  Gay marriage is wrong
  He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple
  Defund planned parenthood
  Raising corporate tax is bad
  Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles.
  Wants to drill in ANWR
  Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy.
  Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees.
  Votes for PATRIOT act over and over
  Voted to allow warantless electronic surveillance against us 
citizens
  Denied additional funding that would provide expanded child 
healthcare
  "Let's build a fence!"
  Voted NO on reporting / deporting illegal immigrants who received 
hospital treatment

  Etc. A few things I like him on, but mostly he's a "nope" for me.

  On Mar 13, 2016 4:46 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:

Hey, I said I liked him.

Re: [AFMUG] "Attack on trump" video

This.  I don't subscribe to the thinking that says a business person is
automatically a good choice to run the country.  It takes MUCH more than
that.  In fact, I'm more inclined to believe the opposite in a lot of cases
(this being one of them).

On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 7:58 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> How is his "small $1mil loan" from his father that he used to build his
> empire (bankrupt several times), make him a viable candidate for the
> highest office in the land?
> On Mar 13, 2016 7:54 PM, "Travis Johnson"  wrote:
>
>> I agree with this statement 100%. I have said this about Trump for almost
>> six months now, and everyone laughed. I'm tired of the same ol' same
>> ol' lifetime politicians that take money from special interest groups
>> to keep everything running.
>>
>> It's time for a change. Say what you want about Trump, but even Fortune
>> magazine has him at a $5 Billion Net Worth. Even if he did start with $1
>> million from his dad 40 years ago, turning that into $5,000 million is
>> pretty damn impressive.
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>> On 3/13/2016 11:12 AM, Rory Conaway wrote:
>>
>> Seriously Jaime, craven lackeys?  I guess I’ve been called worse.  Are
>> you even curious why both the Republican establishment and George Soros are
>> both out to get him?  And don’t you want to find out what would happen if
>> we put a real businessman in the White House instead of some stooge? As
>> businessmen yourselves, I thought you would respect that.  Instead, you are
>> more interested in your ideology than your economic welfare.
>>
>>
>>
>> There are those of us who simply want someone in power for once who isn’t
>> owned by the establishment.  If that’s Trump, so be it.  I’d take Triumph,
>> the Insult Comic dog over anything the Democrats have and clearly over Cruz
>> or Rubio who have both tried to sell us out.  We are $19T in debt and it’s
>> getting worse.  Other countries are bleeding us dry.   Hope and Change was
>> a disaster and the corruption and immigration is worse, not better.  We are
>> on the cusp of possibly electing the most evil liar ever, Hillary Clinton,
>> and you think Trump would be worse without having any idea how he would
>> govern.
>>
>>
>>
>> Wow.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
>> Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 9:36 AM
>> *To:* Animal Farm
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "Attack on trump" video
>>
>>
>>
>> If someone really wants to get him no secret service is going to prevent
>> it...and it doesn't have to a gun.   I don't want someone to kill him.
>> Thats not what are about..  how ugly that someone in crowd yells kill him
>> about protester.Trumps followers are craven lackeys (old cold war term-
>> blind followers in simple language ).   Sounded like a gladiator event.
>> Sad
>>
>> On Mar 13, 2016 10:13 AM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:
>>
>> I had never watched this before, but I came across it today.
>>
>>
>> https://video.twimg.com//ext_tw_video//708728294708015104//pu//vid//640x360//yHRkyZIQTjmheSW4.mp4
>> 
>>
>> "Kill him!"
>>
>> "Kick his ass Donald!"... hah, I did laugh at the yelling
>>
>> The very first thing I noticed was the super weird reactions by the
>> Secret Service. Pay attention to how long it takes for somebody to
>> actually stand in *front* of him, and then *behind* him. I know a bit
>> about VIP protection. Not a lot mind you, but a bit. They don't seem
>> the least bit worried that this was a simple misdirection to pull the
>> Secret Service's attention away from the real plan. Then they open his
>> circle of protection back up *very* quickly...
>>
>> Maybe I'm overanalyzing the video, and maybe I'm thinking too highly
>> of the capabilities and training of the Secret Service... but this all
>> just looks like amateur hour to me.
>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Anti-immigration - Puck 1893

That's a tough one.

On one hand, with the government already giving out welfare checks that
could help with labor costs on small and medium farms - work the farm, get
a check. So, what's to encourage a farmer to pay more than minimum wage
(discouraging potential applicants internationally) if he can just tell the
Fed "send me workers".

I also personally know cases of very good high level workers in various
industries who had problems for over a year finding a job - but once they
finally did after hundreds of applications, they were back to making six
figures or higher. It's hard to work somewhere for 20 years or more and
retire there unless in government or state work.

Decent idea, but it would need some controls in place so it doesn't cause
inadvertent issues.

+1
On Mar 13, 2016 9:26 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:

> I got to thinking about the labor issue with the farms.  I’m having a hard
> time understanding how we can have tens of millions of people on government
> assistance and we can’t find farm workers.  I’d like to make working on
> farms or other businesses being a requirement for a welfare check.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Reynolds
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 7:09 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Anti-immigration - Puck 1893
>
>
>
> Some are here for jobs, some are here to escape massive corruption and
> drug cartels. These are jobs that most American's don't want to do - either
> the work is "too hard" or pay "too low" - which really the latter is true.
> I came from a farm community (Kentucky Tobacco) and have seen how hard they
> work. Many have two or three jobs, and they share a trailer and a truck.
> They take shifts sleeping on the available beds, and send most of their
> checks home to their families to take care of them. Some save to bring
> their families here. Very few of these workers were paid minimum wage, but
> they were often given a trailer to stay in (for the group). Rows and rows
> of trailers per farm.
>
> You deport these guys, American agriculture will suffer. The farm
> subsidies get sucked up by the conglomerates, and the regular guys get very
> little.
>
> The drug demand has nothing to do with illegal or legal. Have you ever
> done any drugs? Ever? My guess is no, but I've been wrong before - ask my
> wife! Drugs are an escape, a booster, and the harder ones are ruthlessly
> addictive, both physically and psychologically. Just once or twice is
> enough to make it very difficult if not impossible to overcome by yourself,
> if ever. And they are SO CHEAP (meth, heroin).
>
> On Mar 13, 2016 8:49 PM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:
>
> Really, you think we would have massive illegal immigration if we had no
> jobs being offered then?
> You also believe that if nobody demanded drugs there would be people
> killing each other to get it here?
> We can disagree on if punishing a drug user is either right it would make
> any difference on then wanting the drug. But you surely cannot argue that
> it is demand that drives the supply, not the other way around.
> My point is just that the demand for cheap labor and the willingness to
> break the law to get it drives illegal immigration. I think you are letting
> your desire for penalty fee drug use get in the way of your judgement.
> OK, I made that last part up but you really don't understand the basics of
> supply and demand?
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 8:08 PM Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>
> agreed
>
> Legal or illegal, has nothing to do with drugs. If people want to do
> something they will.
>
> On Mar 13, 2016 7:28 PM, "Jerry Head"  wrote:
>
> " Kind of like the drug problem. As long as you don't penalize the user
> you get increasing demand."
>
> This has got to be one of the most ignorant comments I have ever seen on
> this list.
> Wow
>
> On 3/13/2016 6:35 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>
> I agree with that. Kind of like the drug problem. As long as you don't
> penalize the user you get increasing demand. If you don't punish the
> employer you get increasing demand.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 2:56 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
> Far less than many believe you need documentation which of course can
> be faked...but percentage wise more welfare in southern states.  Most
> undocumented workers fend for themselves holding two or three shit jobs no
> one wants.   See who is working on highways late at night or in hot sun in
> Texas...a white foreman and ton of Hispanics I have travelled just
> about every rode in Texas go to Chile harvests in Hatch,NM.  Like I
> said..no demand,  no supply simple Adam Smith theory in action.
>
> On Mar 13, 2016 1:06 PM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:
>
> Immigration should have been unfettered in 1893 because there was no
> welfare state in existence then. The combination

Re: [AFMUG] "Attack on trump" video

2016-03-13 Thread Forrest Christian (List Account)

Remember the old adage about no one ever going broke any underestimating
the stupidity of the American public?

I'm starting to wonder if we're going to have to apply this to getting
elected.
On Mar 13, 2016 7:29 PM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:

> The guy who tried to jump stage is getting death threats and parents a
> s well...wow.  and Trump tweeted he is Isis terrorist... really how
> fucking stupid can Trump be and those who believe him are more soCalgon
> take me away
> On Mar 13, 2016 6:58 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:
>
>> How is his "small $1mil loan" from his father that he used to build his
>> empire (bankrupt several times), make him a viable candidate for the
>> highest office in the land?
>> On Mar 13, 2016 7:54 PM, "Travis Johnson"  wrote:
>>
>>> I agree with this statement 100%. I have said this about Trump for
>>> almost six months now, and everyone laughed. I'm tired of the same ol' same
>>> ol' lifetime politicians that take money from special interest groups
>>> to keep everything running.
>>>
>>> It's time for a change. Say what you want about Trump, but even Fortune
>>> magazine has him at a $5 Billion Net Worth. Even if he did start with $1
>>> million from his dad 40 years ago, turning that into $5,000 million is
>>> pretty damn impressive.
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/13/2016 11:12 AM, Rory Conaway wrote:
>>>
>>> Seriously Jaime, craven lackeys?  I guess I’ve been called worse.  Are
>>> you even curious why both the Republican establishment and George Soros are
>>> both out to get him?  And don’t you want to find out what would happen if
>>> we put a real businessman in the White House instead of some stooge? As
>>> businessmen yourselves, I thought you would respect that.  Instead, you are
>>> more interested in your ideology than your economic welfare.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There are those of us who simply want someone in power for once who
>>> isn’t owned by the establishment.  If that’s Trump, so be it.  I’d take
>>> Triumph, the Insult Comic dog over anything the Democrats have and clearly
>>> over Cruz or Rubio who have both tried to sell us out.  We are $19T in debt
>>> and it’s getting worse.  Other countries are bleeding us dry.   Hope and
>>> Change was a disaster and the corruption and immigration is worse, not
>>> better.  We are on the cusp of possibly electing the most evil liar ever,
>>> Hillary Clinton, and you think Trump would be worse without having any idea
>>> how he would govern.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Wow.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Rory
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
>>> Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 9:36 AM
>>> *To:* Animal Farm
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "Attack on trump" video
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If someone really wants to get him no secret service is going to prevent
>>> it...and it doesn't have to a gun.   I don't want someone to kill him.
>>> Thats not what are about..  how ugly that someone in crowd yells kill him
>>> about protester.Trumps followers are craven lackeys (old cold war term-
>>> blind followers in simple language ).   Sounded like a gladiator event.
>>> Sad
>>>
>>> On Mar 13, 2016 10:13 AM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:
>>>
>>> I had never watched this before, but I came across it today.
>>>
>>>
>>> https://video.twimg.com//ext_tw_video//708728294708015104//pu//vid//640x360//yHRkyZIQTjmheSW4.mp4
>>> 
>>>
>>> "Kill him!"
>>>
>>> "Kick his ass Donald!"... hah, I did laugh at the yelling
>>>
>>> The very first thing I noticed was the super weird reactions by the
>>> Secret Service. Pay attention to how long it takes for somebody to
>>> actually stand in *front* of him, and then *behind* him. I know a bit
>>> about VIP protection. Not a lot mind you, but a bit. They don't seem
>>> the least bit worried that this was a simple misdirection to pull the
>>> Secret Service's attention away from the real plan. Then they open his
>>> circle of protection back up *very* quickly...
>>>
>>> Maybe I'm overanalyzing the video, and maybe I'm thinking too highly
>>> of the capabilities and training of the Secret Service... but this all
>>> just looks like amateur hour to me.
>>>
>>>
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] "Attack on trump" video

The guy who tried to jump stage is getting death threats and parents a
s well...wow.  and Trump tweeted he is Isis terrorist... really how
fucking stupid can Trump be and those who believe him are more soCalgon
take me away
On Mar 13, 2016 6:58 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:

> How is his "small $1mil loan" from his father that he used to build his
> empire (bankrupt several times), make him a viable candidate for the
> highest office in the land?
> On Mar 13, 2016 7:54 PM, "Travis Johnson"  wrote:
>
>> I agree with this statement 100%. I have said this about Trump for almost
>> six months now, and everyone laughed. I'm tired of the same ol' same
>> ol' lifetime politicians that take money from special interest groups
>> to keep everything running.
>>
>> It's time for a change. Say what you want about Trump, but even Fortune
>> magazine has him at a $5 Billion Net Worth. Even if he did start with $1
>> million from his dad 40 years ago, turning that into $5,000 million is
>> pretty damn impressive.
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>> On 3/13/2016 11:12 AM, Rory Conaway wrote:
>>
>> Seriously Jaime, craven lackeys?  I guess I’ve been called worse.  Are
>> you even curious why both the Republican establishment and George Soros are
>> both out to get him?  And don’t you want to find out what would happen if
>> we put a real businessman in the White House instead of some stooge? As
>> businessmen yourselves, I thought you would respect that.  Instead, you are
>> more interested in your ideology than your economic welfare.
>>
>>
>>
>> There are those of us who simply want someone in power for once who isn’t
>> owned by the establishment.  If that’s Trump, so be it.  I’d take Triumph,
>> the Insult Comic dog over anything the Democrats have and clearly over Cruz
>> or Rubio who have both tried to sell us out.  We are $19T in debt and it’s
>> getting worse.  Other countries are bleeding us dry.   Hope and Change was
>> a disaster and the corruption and immigration is worse, not better.  We are
>> on the cusp of possibly electing the most evil liar ever, Hillary Clinton,
>> and you think Trump would be worse without having any idea how he would
>> govern.
>>
>>
>>
>> Wow.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
>> Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 9:36 AM
>> *To:* Animal Farm
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "Attack on trump" video
>>
>>
>>
>> If someone really wants to get him no secret service is going to prevent
>> it...and it doesn't have to a gun.   I don't want someone to kill him.
>> Thats not what are about..  how ugly that someone in crowd yells kill him
>> about protester.Trumps followers are craven lackeys (old cold war term-
>> blind followers in simple language ).   Sounded like a gladiator event.
>> Sad
>>
>> On Mar 13, 2016 10:13 AM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:
>>
>> I had never watched this before, but I came across it today.
>>
>>
>> https://video.twimg.com//ext_tw_video//708728294708015104//pu//vid//640x360//yHRkyZIQTjmheSW4.mp4
>> 
>>
>> "Kill him!"
>>
>> "Kick his ass Donald!"... hah, I did laugh at the yelling
>>
>> The very first thing I noticed was the super weird reactions by the
>> Secret Service. Pay attention to how long it takes for somebody to
>> actually stand in *front* of him, and then *behind* him. I know a bit
>> about VIP protection. Not a lot mind you, but a bit. They don't seem
>> the least bit worried that this was a simple misdirection to pull the
>> Secret Service's attention away from the real plan. Then they open his
>> circle of protection back up *very* quickly...
>>
>> Maybe I'm overanalyzing the video, and maybe I'm thinking too highly
>> of the capabilities and training of the Secret Service... but this all
>> just looks like amateur hour to me.
>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Anti-immigration - Puck 1893

I got to thinking about the labor issue with the farms.  I’m having a hard time 
understanding how we can have tens of millions of people on government 
assistance and we can’t find farm workers.  I’d like to make working on farms 
or other businesses being a requirement for a welfare check.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 7:09 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Anti-immigration - Puck 1893

Some are here for jobs, some are here to escape massive corruption and drug 
cartels. These are jobs that most American's don't want to do - either the work 
is "too hard" or pay "too low" - which really the latter is true. I came from a 
farm community (Kentucky Tobacco) and have seen how hard they work. Many have 
two or three jobs, and they share a trailer and a truck. They take shifts 
sleeping on the available beds, and send most of their checks home to their 
families to take care of them. Some save to bring their families here. Very few 
of these workers were paid minimum wage, but they were often given a trailer to 
stay in (for the group). Rows and rows of trailers per farm.

You deport these guys, American agriculture will suffer. The farm subsidies get 
sucked up by the conglomerates, and the regular guys get very little.

The drug demand has nothing to do with illegal or legal. Have you ever done any 
drugs? Ever? My guess is no, but I've been wrong before - ask my wife! Drugs 
are an escape, a booster, and the harder ones are ruthlessly addictive, both 
physically and psychologically. Just once or twice is enough to make it very 
difficult if not impossible to overcome by yourself, if ever. And they are SO 
CHEAP (meth, heroin).
On Mar 13, 2016 8:49 PM, "Lewis Bergman" 
> wrote:

Really, you think we would have massive illegal immigration if we had no jobs 
being offered then?
You also believe that if nobody demanded drugs there would be people killing 
each other to get it here?
We can disagree on if punishing a drug user is either right it would make any 
difference on then wanting the drug. But you surely cannot argue that it is 
demand that drives the supply, not the other way around.
My point is just that the demand for cheap labor and the willingness to break 
the law to get it drives illegal immigration. I think you are letting your 
desire for penalty fee drug use get in the way of your judgement.
OK, I made that last part up but you really don't understand the basics of 
supply and demand?

On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 8:08 PM Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:

agreed

Legal or illegal, has nothing to do with drugs. If people want to do something 
they will.
On Mar 13, 2016 7:28 PM, "Jerry Head" 
> wrote:
" Kind of like the drug problem. As long as you don't penalize the user you get 
increasing demand."

This has got to be one of the most ignorant comments I have ever seen on this 
list.
Wow

On 3/13/2016 6:35 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:

I agree with that. Kind of like the drug problem. As long as you don't penalize 
the user you get increasing demand. If you don't punish the employer you get 
increasing demand.

On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 2:56 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:

Far less than many believe you need documentation which of course can be 
faked...but percentage wise more welfare in southern states.  Most undocumented 
workers fend for themselves holding two or three shit jobs no one wants.   See 
who is working on highways late at night or in hot sun in Texas...a white 
foreman and ton of Hispanics I have travelled just about every rode in 
Texas go to Chile harvests in Hatch,NM.  Like I said..no demand,  no 
supply simple Adam Smith theory in action.
On Mar 13, 2016 1:06 PM, "Lewis Bergman" 
> wrote:

Immigration should have been unfettered in 1893 because there was no welfare 
state in existence then. The combination of unrestricted immigration and a 
comprehensive welfare system has the potential to bankrupt the U.S. I have no 
idea if immigrants make up a larger part of the welfare system than any other, 
just that the potential is there.

On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 11:35 AM Chuck McCown 
> wrote:
[http://thedabbler.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Looking-Backward.jpeg]

Re: [AFMUG] This is all your fault Jaime S

Hawatch the that figure
On Mar 13, 2016 7:06 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:

> So I paid attention to Jaime's Mexican steak recipe a few weeks ago.
>
> I made tacos and fajitas tonight, green peppers, onion, fresh garlic,
> salt, pepper, homemade taco seasoning, hand made flour tortillas, cayenne
> pepper and lime on everything, lettuce, 4 cheese blend, refried beans,
> Mexican rice, sour cream...
>
> My problem though is my wife made 2 dozen homemade chocolate chip cookies
> yesterday, and over 120 butter cookies.
>
> I'm too fat to eat more, and they all look too good to not eat!
>
> Thanks Jaime! :)
>

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

Wait you forgot prosperity gospel and Scientology.sorry.  in a weird
mood
On Mar 13, 2016 7:27 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:

> Catholic? Muslim? Buddhist? Baptist? Jewish? Etc.
>
> Which?
>
> Wait... Church for education?!?!
> On Mar 13, 2016 8:21 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> In my opinion they (the church) aren't far from families in need, need
>> food, need education, need emotional support.
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 7:54 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>
>> Why does any church need to be involved with reproductive care,
>> contraception, or abortion?
>>
>> Those are medical issues.
>> On Mar 13, 2016 6:48 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Actually, my belief is here in the deep south we have a church on every
>>> corner.  Let the churches handle itthey are more than capable.
>>>
>>> My tax dollars aren't needed for this. (or many other things)
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> *From:* Ken Hohhof 
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:18 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>>
>>> What many people who lose sleep over Planned Parenthood are actually
>>> upset about is they offer birth control.  Some people obsess about poor
>>> people having sex without the punishment of getting pregnant.  See this if
>>> you forgot:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_Limbaugh%E2%80%93Sandra_Fluke_controversy
>>>
>>> I don’t understand how you can be extremely anti-abortion yet also
>>> extremely anti-contraception.  Less unwanted pregnancies = less abortions.
>>> Which is the lesser evil?
>>>
>>> I think it comes down to some people are obsessed with sex, especially
>>> “other” people having sex.  #nosyneighbors #getalife
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:48 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>>
>>>
>>> Did you research that video? You should. It's not what you think.
>>> On Mar 13, 2016 5:41 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
>>> wrote:
>>>

 Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here.

 I don't care about gay marriage.  I'm not gay, I know a handful of gay
 people.  Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right
 telling them what they can or can't do.

 Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt.   Now, I'm not so
 sure on that.  When I was growing up there were few gay couples who had
 "come out" and we thought if the girl had a different last name than her
 mommy we thought that was odd.  Quite a bit different now but it could
 still screw with a kids head in terms of "traditional marriage".

 It would be hard to NOT state that traditional marriage has gone to
 hell in this country.  But then again, so many "traditional" things have
 gone to hell.  How many women stay at home and take care of the family
 while dad goes to work?

 I am in favor of defunding planned parenthood.  The videos pretty much
 got to me.  It's MY TAX DOLLARS.  Defund it.  There are plenty of other
 non-government-funded entities who can do that work.

 Any tax is bad :)

 I'm going to stop there, i will get in trouble... lol

 - Original Message -
 *From:* Josh Reynolds 
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:02 PM
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

 His stances:
 Gay marriage is wrong
 He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple
 Defund planned parenthood
 Raising corporate tax is bad
 Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles.
 Wants to drill in ANWR
 Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy.
 Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees.
 Votes for PATRIOT act over and over
 Voted to allow warantless electronic surveillance against us citizens
 Denied additional funding that would provide expanded child healthcare
 "Let's build a fence!"
 Voted NO on reporting / deporting illegal immigrants who received
 hospital treatment

 Etc. A few things I like him on, but mostly he's a "nope" for me.
 On Mar 13, 2016 4:46 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:

> Hey, I said I liked him.  Just not full on man crush.
>
> I didn’t see how his math added up for the budgets he proposed.  There
> were some missing pages where magic happened to balance the budget.  
> Seemed
> like the same old voodoo economics.
>
> So “man crush”, is that like Trump and Putin?  At least Putin is
> supposedly an 8th degree black belt.  He would probably take care of the
> protester himself.  If Trump thinks he can bully

Re: [AFMUG] OT Anti-immigration - Puck 1893

Some are here for jobs, some are here to escape massive corruption and drug
cartels. These are jobs that most American's don't want to do - either the
work is "too hard" or pay "too low" - which really the latter is true. I
came from a farm community (Kentucky Tobacco) and have seen how hard they
work. Many have two or three jobs, and they share a trailer and a truck.
They take shifts sleeping on the available beds, and send most of their
checks home to their families to take care of them. Some save to bring
their families here. Very few of these workers were paid minimum wage, but
they were often given a trailer to stay in (for the group). Rows and rows
of trailers per farm.

You deport these guys, American agriculture will suffer. The farm subsidies
get sucked up by the conglomerates, and the regular guys get very little.

The drug demand has nothing to do with illegal or legal. Have you ever done
any drugs? Ever? My guess is no, but I've been wrong before - ask my wife!
Drugs are an escape, a booster, and the harder ones are ruthlessly
addictive, both physically and psychologically. Just once or twice is
enough to make it very difficult if not impossible to overcome by yourself,
if ever. And they are SO CHEAP (meth, heroin).
On Mar 13, 2016 8:49 PM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:

> Really, you think we would have massive illegal immigration if we had no
> jobs being offered then?
> You also believe that if nobody demanded drugs there would be people
> killing each other to get it here?
> We can disagree on if punishing a drug user is either right it would make
> any difference on then wanting the drug. But you surely cannot argue that
> it is demand that drives the supply, not the other way around.
> My point is just that the demand for cheap labor and the willingness to
> break the law to get it drives illegal immigration. I think you are letting
> your desire for penalty fee drug use get in the way of your judgement.
> OK, I made that last part up but you really don't understand the basics of
> supply and demand?
>
> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 8:08 PM Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>
>> agreed
>>
>> Legal or illegal, has nothing to do with drugs. If people want to do
>> something they will.
>> On Mar 13, 2016 7:28 PM, "Jerry Head"  wrote:
>>
>>> " Kind of like the drug problem. As long as you don't penalize the user
>>> you get increasing demand."
>>>
>>> This has got to be one of the most ignorant comments I have ever seen on
>>> this list.
>>> Wow
>>>
>>> On 3/13/2016 6:35 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>>>
>> I agree with that. Kind of like the drug problem. As long as you don't
>>> penalize the user you get increasing demand. If you don't punish the
>>> employer you get increasing demand.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 2:56 PM Jaime Solorza 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Far less than many believe you need documentation which of course
 can be faked...but percentage wise more welfare in southern states.  Most
 undocumented workers fend for themselves holding two or three shit jobs no
 one wants.   See who is working on highways late at night or in hot sun in
 Texas...a white foreman and ton of Hispanics I have travelled just
 about every rode in Texas go to Chile harvests in Hatch,NM.  Like I
 said..no demand,  no supply simple Adam Smith theory in action.
 On Mar 13, 2016 1:06 PM, "Lewis Bergman" 
 wrote:

> Immigration should have been unfettered in 1893 because there was no
> welfare state in existence then. The combination of unrestricted
> immigration and a comprehensive welfare system has the potential to
> bankrupt the U.S. I have no idea if immigrants make up a larger part of 
> the
> welfare system than any other, just that the potential is there.
>
> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 11:35 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Anti-immigration - Puck 1893

Really, you think we would have massive illegal immigration if we had no
jobs being offered then?
You also believe that if nobody demanded drugs there would be people
killing each other to get it here?
We can disagree on if punishing a drug user is either right it would make
any difference on then wanting the drug. But you surely cannot argue that
it is demand that drives the supply, not the other way around.
My point is just that the demand for cheap labor and the willingness to
break the law to get it drives illegal immigration. I think you are letting
your desire for penalty fee drug use get in the way of your judgement.
OK, I made that last part up but you really don't understand the basics of
supply and demand?

On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 8:08 PM Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> agreed
>
> Legal or illegal, has nothing to do with drugs. If people want to do
> something they will.
> On Mar 13, 2016 7:28 PM, "Jerry Head"  wrote:
>
>> " Kind of like the drug problem. As long as you don't penalize the user
>> you get increasing demand."
>>
>> This has got to be one of the most ignorant comments I have ever seen on
>> this list.
>> Wow
>>
>> On 3/13/2016 6:35 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>>
> I agree with that. Kind of like the drug problem. As long as you don't
>> penalize the user you get increasing demand. If you don't punish the
>> employer you get increasing demand.
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 2:56 PM Jaime Solorza 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Far less than many believe you need documentation which of course can
>>> be faked...but percentage wise more welfare in southern states.  Most
>>> undocumented workers fend for themselves holding two or three shit jobs no
>>> one wants.   See who is working on highways late at night or in hot sun in
>>> Texas...a white foreman and ton of Hispanics I have travelled just
>>> about every rode in Texas go to Chile harvests in Hatch,NM.  Like I
>>> said..no demand,  no supply simple Adam Smith theory in action.
>>> On Mar 13, 2016 1:06 PM, "Lewis Bergman" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Immigration should have been unfettered in 1893 because there was no
 welfare state in existence then. The combination of unrestricted
 immigration and a comprehensive welfare system has the potential to
 bankrupt the U.S. I have no idea if immigrants make up a larger part of the
 welfare system than any other, just that the potential is there.

 On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 11:35 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

2016-03-13 Thread Jon Langeler

You can tap my phone...except you can't tax me to cover the cost. 

Also rule #1 is we have to have a competitive tax code compared to rest of 
world. All other decisions fall under that.

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.

> On Mar 13, 2016, at 6:19 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> 
> These are bad things???
>  
> I don’t care about Gays one way or the other.  Sick of the subject.  Live and 
> let live.  
> I don’t support abortion.  I believe it is murdering a baby.  I understand 
> others think it is cluster of non sentient cells...
> I don’t want corporate taxes just get passed along to customers.  I don’t see 
> this as a solution.
> I don’t support more sentencing and prosecution of anyone.  That does not 
> seem to help.
> I would drill the bejesus out of ANWR.
> I love my tax credits on my renewable energy.
> 4 weeks of leave ... meh... I guess if you are a guvmnt worker OK, just don’t 
> force me to grant the same thing.
> Patriot act does not bug me. (pun intended)
> I don’t care if you tap my phones, I don’t say anything worth listening. 
> Child healthcare and healthcare in general should be single payer socialism 
> in my opinion. 
> No fence, more worker visa initiatives. 
> I wouldn’t report or deport illegals either.
>  
> So, what does that make me?
>  
> (What is his stance on gun control?)
>  
> From: Josh Reynolds
> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:02 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>  
> His stances:
> Gay marriage is wrong
> He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple
> Defund planned parenthood
> Raising corporate tax is bad
> Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles.
> Wants to drill in ANWR
> Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy.
> Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees.
> Votes for PATRIOT act over and over
> Voted to allow warantless electronic surveillance against us citizens
> Denied additional funding that would provide expanded child healthcare
> "Let's build a fence!"
> Voted NO on reporting / deporting illegal immigrants who received hospital 
> treatment
> 
> Etc. A few things I like him on, but mostly he's a "nope" for me.
> 
>> On Mar 13, 2016 4:46 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:
>> Hey, I said I liked him.  Just not full on man crush.
>>  
>> I didn’t see how his math added up for the budgets he proposed.  There were 
>> some missing pages where magic happened to balance the budget.  Seemed like 
>> the same old voodoo economics.
>>  
>> So “man crush”, is that like Trump and Putin?  At least Putin is supposedly 
>> an 8th degree black belt.  He would probably take care of the protester 
>> himself.  If Trump thinks he can bully the Putins of the world, I’m not so 
>> sure.  I think McCain could take him in a fair fight.  Hell, Bernie could 
>> probably take him.  I was never fond of Nixon, but the photo of the “kitchen 
>> debate” with Khrushchev is a treasure.
>> http://spectator.org/articles/41740/how-handle-bully-nixon-vs-khrushchev
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> From: CBB - Jay Fuller
>> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:19 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>  
>>  
>> I have actually followed Paul Ryan since the first time he appeared on the 
>> national stage.  Very impressed with him.  Could almost call him my "man 
>> crush".   I'd be interested in hearing what you do not like about him Ken.
>>  
>> - Original Message -
>> From: Ken Hohhof
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 2:04 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump's Supporters Love Him Even More 
>> AfterChicago Violence
>>  
>> I think the "establishment" is missing why people are fed up with them, I'm 
>> not convinced it's about left or right.  If I had to single out one person 
>> as the poster boy for why the establishment has failed us, it would be Mitch 
>> McConnell.  All 4 leaders in Congress have only been worried about their own 
>> power and re-election, but McConnell is the worst of a bad bunch.
>> 
>> I don't agree with Paul Ryan's economics or some of his politics, but I like 
>> what he has said since being elected Speaker.  I would like to see if they 
>> are just words, or if he would translate them into actions.  I don't think 
>> we will get to find out, election politics seem to have rendered him 
>> irrelevant.  And Mitch the Turtle would have to be replaced with someone 
>> actually interested in governing.  I wonder what conservative goals could 
>> have been accomplished in the 7 years Mitch has spent trying to make Obama 
>> fail no matter how much damage it causes.  Tort reform?  Modifications to 
>> Obamacare?  Fix sequestration?  Tax reform?  Immigration reform?  Mitch 
>> doesn't care.  Mitch cares about Mitch.  That's the problem with the 
>> establishment, they spend all their effort on getting elected and staying in 
>> power, they don't even pretend to do their job.  And let me be clear, I'm 
>> not saying Pelosi, Reid and Boehner were much

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

Catholic? Muslim? Buddhist? Baptist? Jewish? Etc.

Which?

Wait... Church for education?!?!
On Mar 13, 2016 8:21 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
wrote:

>
> In my opinion they (the church) aren't far from families in need, need
> food, need education, need emotional support.
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 7:54 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>
> Why does any church need to be involved with reproductive care,
> contraception, or abortion?
>
> Those are medical issues.
> On Mar 13, 2016 6:48 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Actually, my belief is here in the deep south we have a church on every
>> corner.  Let the churches handle itthey are more than capable.
>>
>> My tax dollars aren't needed for this. (or many other things)
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Ken Hohhof 
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:18 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>
>> What many people who lose sleep over Planned Parenthood are actually
>> upset about is they offer birth control.  Some people obsess about poor
>> people having sex without the punishment of getting pregnant.  See this if
>> you forgot:
>>
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_Limbaugh%E2%80%93Sandra_Fluke_controversy
>>
>> I don’t understand how you can be extremely anti-abortion yet also
>> extremely anti-contraception.  Less unwanted pregnancies = less abortions.
>> Which is the lesser evil?
>>
>> I think it comes down to some people are obsessed with sex, especially
>> “other” people having sex.  #nosyneighbors #getalife
>>
>>
>> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:48 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>
>>
>> Did you research that video? You should. It's not what you think.
>> On Mar 13, 2016 5:41 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here.
>>>
>>> I don't care about gay marriage.  I'm not gay, I know a handful of gay
>>> people.  Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right
>>> telling them what they can or can't do.
>>>
>>> Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt.   Now, I'm not so
>>> sure on that.  When I was growing up there were few gay couples who had
>>> "come out" and we thought if the girl had a different last name than her
>>> mommy we thought that was odd.  Quite a bit different now but it could
>>> still screw with a kids head in terms of "traditional marriage".
>>>
>>> It would be hard to NOT state that traditional marriage has gone to hell
>>> in this country.  But then again, so many "traditional" things have gone to
>>> hell.  How many women stay at home and take care of the family while dad
>>> goes to work?
>>>
>>> I am in favor of defunding planned parenthood.  The videos pretty much
>>> got to me.  It's MY TAX DOLLARS.  Defund it.  There are plenty of other
>>> non-government-funded entities who can do that work.
>>>
>>> Any tax is bad :)
>>>
>>> I'm going to stop there, i will get in trouble... lol
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:02 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>>
>>> His stances:
>>> Gay marriage is wrong
>>> He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple
>>> Defund planned parenthood
>>> Raising corporate tax is bad
>>> Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles.
>>> Wants to drill in ANWR
>>> Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy.
>>> Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees.
>>> Votes for PATRIOT act over and over
>>> Voted to allow warantless electronic surveillance against us citizens
>>> Denied additional funding that would provide expanded child healthcare
>>> "Let's build a fence!"
>>> Voted NO on reporting / deporting illegal immigrants who received
>>> hospital treatment
>>>
>>> Etc. A few things I like him on, but mostly he's a "nope" for me.
>>> On Mar 13, 2016 4:46 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:
>>>
 Hey, I said I liked him.  Just not full on man crush.

 I didn’t see how his math added up for the budgets he proposed.  There
 were some missing pages where magic happened to balance the budget.  Seemed
 like the same old voodoo economics.

 So “man crush”, is that like Trump and Putin?  At least Putin is
 supposedly an 8th degree black belt.  He would probably take care of the
 protester himself.  If Trump thinks he can bully the Putins of the world,
 I’m not so sure.  I think McCain could take him in a fair fight.  Hell,
 Bernie could probably take him.  I was never fond of Nixon, but the photo
 of the “kitchen debate” with Khrushchev is a treasure.

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

In my opinion they (the church) aren't far from families in need, need food, 
need education, need emotional support.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Josh Reynolds 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 7:54 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

  Why does any church need to be involved with reproductive care, 
contraception, or abortion?

  Those are medical issues.

  On Mar 13, 2016 6:48 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  wrote:

Actually, my belief is here in the deep south we have a church on every 
corner.  Let the churches handle itthey are more than capable.

My tax dollars aren't needed for this. (or many other things)

  - Original Message - 
  From: Ken Hohhof 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:18 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

  What many people who lose sleep over Planned Parenthood are actually 
upset about is they offer birth control.  Some people obsess about poor people 
having sex without the punishment of getting pregnant.  See this if you forgot:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_Limbaugh%E2%80%93Sandra_Fluke_controversy

  I don’t understand how you can be extremely anti-abortion yet also 
extremely anti-contraception.  Less unwanted pregnancies = less abortions.  
Which is the lesser evil?

  I think it comes down to some people are obsessed with sex, especially 
“other” people having sex.  #nosyneighbors #getalife

  From: Josh Reynolds 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:48 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

  Did you research that video? You should. It's not what you think.

  On Mar 13, 2016 5:41 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  
wrote:

Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here.

I don't care about gay marriage.  I'm not gay, I know a handful of gay 
people.  Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right telling 
them what they can or can't do.

Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt.   Now, I'm not so 
sure on that.  When I was growing up there were few gay couples who had "come 
out" and we thought if the girl had a different last name than her mommy we 
thought that was odd.  Quite a bit different now but it could still screw with 
a kids head in terms of "traditional marriage".

It would be hard to NOT state that traditional marriage has gone to 
hell in this country.  But then again, so many "traditional" things have gone 
to hell.  How many women stay at home and take care of the family while dad 
goes to work?

I am in favor of defunding planned parenthood.  The videos pretty much 
got to me.  It's MY TAX DOLLARS.  Defund it.  There are plenty of other 
non-government-funded entities who can do that work.

Any tax is bad :)

I'm going to stop there, i will get in trouble... lol

  - Original Message - 
  From: Josh Reynolds 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:02 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

  His stances:
  Gay marriage is wrong
  He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple
  Defund planned parenthood
  Raising corporate tax is bad
  Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles.
  Wants to drill in ANWR
  Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy.
  Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees.
  Votes for PATRIOT act over and over
  Voted to allow warantless electronic surveillance against us citizens
  Denied additional funding that would provide expanded child healthcare
  "Let's build a fence!"
  Voted NO on reporting / deporting illegal immigrants who received 
hospital treatment

  Etc. A few things I like him on, but mostly he's a "nope" for me.

  On Mar 13, 2016 4:46 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:

Hey, I said I liked him.  Just not full on man crush.

I didn’t see how his math added up for the budgets he proposed.  
There were some missing pages where magic happened to balance the budget.  
Seemed like the same old voodoo economics.

So “man crush”, is that like Trump and Putin?  At least Putin is 
supposedly an 8th degree black belt.  He would probably take care of the 
protester himself.  If Trump thinks he can bully the Putins of the world, I’m 
not so sure.  I think McCain could take him in a fair fight.  Hell, Bernie 
could probably take him.  I was never fond of Nixon, but the photo of the 
“kitchen debate” with Khrushchev is a treasure.

http://spectator.org/articles/41740/how-handle-bully-nixon-vs-khrushchev

From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

I have actually

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan


Couldn't agree moreBS meter going off the scale.  I tend to try to follow a 
variety of sources and my gf, who is 10x more sensitive to this stuff than i 
am, still calls me an idiotif I'm "to the right", she is way over there off 
the shoulder

and i'm actually more in the turn lane... lol

  - Original Message - 
  From: Josh Reynolds 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 7:59 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan


  Every poll has him losing the Presidential election. There's plenty of time 
for things to change, Clinton still has time for court, and Trump still has 
time to release his tax records.

  On Mar 13, 2016 7:56 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:

I don’t know Rick Perry very well, seems more like doofus to me, not a 
leader.  And I listen to everybody, but the constant B.S. just puts me off.  
Now that I’ve seen how the sausage is made, my B.S. detector is on overly 
sensitive.  Still, everything comes back to the what’s good for the country and 
what makes me worry more than anything is that I don’t see either party putting 
country first.  I think that is now going to be left in the hands of the 
citizens and right now, I think Donald Trump.  If I’m wrong, I’ll come out and 
apologize next year.  But if I’m right, we all win.



Rory



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:47 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan



Rick is a prick...my ex wife is a Perry and she told me that 20 years 
ago...funny no one caught my calling Rubio and Cruz coconuts.in 70s you 
would not missed that...
Like i recommended ..stop watching Fox and listening to Rush 
Limbosas..too easy

On Mar 13, 2016 6:20 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:

The guy who did the video is only charged with a felon on the act of 
recording, not what he recorded which was still true.  They were selling body 
parts.  They aren’t getting him on doctoring a video, they are getting him 
because it’s illegal for one person to record a conversation.  It’s kind of 
like when they audited Ben Carson or when the indicted D’Souza, total political 
bullshit.  Then when they don’t indict Hillary for far worse on many fronts, 
Sharpton, Black Panthers, the IRS, etc…, you can see the corruption in the 
Justice Department so don’t go buy the fact someone is being indicted.   Heck, 
Rick Perry was under an illegal indictment by the Democrats that finally got 
thrown out of court. 



Rory 



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 3:57 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan



The videos were edited...guys who did it facing charges in Houston. That 
said I am anti abortion.  As a Catholic but more as a caring human being.

Many gay couples are good parents...and some stay together longer than 
traditional couples we need better parenting.its hard for parents to 
compete with all the electronics that our children can see and hear.  I get 
upset that one of grandsons is allowed to watch Walking Dead crap.  He is 
4when they are here I make sure they don't watch crap like that...even Nick 
has stupid cartoons.   I digress too many people having kids that have no 
idea of what it takes 

Why dont  you GOPers get Ryan to run?  Oh wait... he said no!Too 
easysorry.. OK how about Mitt?  Oops my bad..

On Mar 13, 2016 4:41 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  
wrote:



Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here.



I don't care about gay marriage.  I'm not gay, I know a handful of gay 
people.  Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right telling 
them what they can or can't do.



Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt.   Now, I'm not so 
sure on that.  When I was growing up there were few gay couples who had "come 
out" and we thought if the girl had a different last name than her mommy we 
thought that was odd.  Quite a bit different now but it could still screw with 
a kids head in terms of "traditional marriage".



It would be hard to NOT state that traditional marriage has gone to hell in 
this country.  But then again, so many "traditional" things have gone to hell.  
How many women stay at home and take care of the family while dad goes to work?



I am in favor of defunding planned parenthood.  The videos pretty much got 
to me.  It's MY TAX DOLLARS.  Defund it.  There are plenty of other 
non-government-funded entities who can do that work.



Any tax is bad :)



I'm going to stop there, i will get in trouble... lol









  - Original Message - 

  From: Josh Reynolds 

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:02 PM

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan



  His stances:
  Gay marriage is wrong
  He doesn't support

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

**sigh**

On Sunday, March 13, 2016, CBB - Jay Fuller 
wrote:

>
> it's not.
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Jason McKemie
> 
> *To:* af@afmug.com 
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:56 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>
> I hope that's a bad joke.
>
> On Sunday, March 13, 2016, CBB - Jay Fuller  > wrote:
>
>>
>> Actually, my belief is here in the deep south we have a church on every
>> corner.  Let the churches handle itthey are more than capable.
>>
>> My tax dollars aren't needed for this. (or many other things)
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Ken Hohhof
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:18 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>
>> What many people who lose sleep over Planned Parenthood are actually
>> upset about is they offer birth control.  Some people obsess about poor
>> people having sex without the punishment of getting pregnant.  See this if
>> you forgot:
>>
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_Limbaugh%E2%80%93Sandra_Fluke_controversy
>>
>> I don’t understand how you can be extremely anti-abortion yet also
>> extremely anti-contraception.  Less unwanted pregnancies = less abortions.
>> Which is the lesser evil?
>>
>> I think it comes down to some people are obsessed with sex, especially
>> “other” people having sex.  #nosyneighbors #getalife
>>
>>
>> *From:* Josh Reynolds
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:48 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>
>>
>> Did you research that video? You should. It's not what you think.
>> On Mar 13, 2016 5:41 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here.
>>>
>>> I don't care about gay marriage.  I'm not gay, I know a handful of gay
>>> people.  Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right
>>> telling them what they can or can't do.
>>>
>>> Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt.   Now, I'm not so
>>> sure on that.  When I was growing up there were few gay couples who had
>>> "come out" and we thought if the girl had a different last name than her
>>> mommy we thought that was odd.  Quite a bit different now but it could
>>> still screw with a kids head in terms of "traditional marriage".
>>>
>>> It would be hard to NOT state that traditional marriage has gone to hell
>>> in this country.  But then again, so many "traditional" things have gone to
>>> hell.  How many women stay at home and take care of the family while dad
>>> goes to work?
>>>
>>> I am in favor of defunding planned parenthood.  The videos pretty much
>>> got to me.  It's MY TAX DOLLARS.  Defund it.  There are plenty of other
>>> non-government-funded entities who can do that work.
>>>
>>> Any tax is bad :)
>>>
>>> I'm going to stop there, i will get in trouble... lol
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> *From:* Josh Reynolds
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:02 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>>
>>> His stances:
>>> Gay marriage is wrong
>>> He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple
>>> Defund planned parenthood
>>> Raising corporate tax is bad
>>> Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles.
>>> Wants to drill in ANWR
>>> Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy.
>>> Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees.
>>> Votes for PATRIOT act over and over
>>> Voted to allow warantless electronic surveillance against us citizens
>>> Denied additional funding that would provide expanded child healthcare
>>> "Let's build a fence!"
>>> Voted NO on reporting / deporting illegal immigrants who received
>>> hospital treatment
>>>
>>> Etc. A few things I like him on, but mostly he's a "nope" for me.
>>> On Mar 13, 2016 4:46 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:
>>>
 Hey, I said I liked him.  Just not full on man crush.

 I didn’t see how his math added up for the budgets he proposed.  There
 were some missing pages where magic happened to balance the budget.  Seemed
 like the same old voodoo economics.

 So “man crush”, is that like Trump and Putin?  At least Putin is
 supposedly an 8th degree black belt.  He would probably take care of the
 protester himself.  If Trump thinks he can bully the Putins of the world,
 I’m not so sure.  I think McCain could take him in a fair fight.  Hell,
 Bernie could probably take him.  I was never fond of Nixon, but the photo
 of the “kitchen debate” with Khrushchev is a treasure.
 http://spectator.org/articles/41740/how-handle-bully-nixon-vs-khrushchev



 *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller
 *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:19 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* [AFMUG] Paul Ryan


 I have

Re: [AFMUG] OT Anti-immigration - Puck 1893

agreed

Legal or illegal, has nothing to do with drugs. If people want to do
something they will.
On Mar 13, 2016 7:28 PM, "Jerry Head"  wrote:

> " Kind of like the drug problem. As long as you don't penalize the user
> you get increasing demand."
>
> This has got to be one of the most ignorant comments I have ever seen on
> this list.
> Wow
>
> On 3/13/2016 6:35 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>
> I agree with that. Kind of like the drug problem. As long as you don't
> penalize the user you get increasing demand. If you don't punish the
> employer you get increasing demand.
>
> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 2:56 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> Far less than many believe you need documentation which of course can
>> be faked...but percentage wise more welfare in southern states.  Most
>> undocumented workers fend for themselves holding two or three shit jobs no
>> one wants.   See who is working on highways late at night or in hot sun in
>> Texas...a white foreman and ton of Hispanics I have travelled just
>> about every rode in Texas go to Chile harvests in Hatch,NM.  Like I
>> said..no demand,  no supply simple Adam Smith theory in action.
>> On Mar 13, 2016 1:06 PM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:
>>
>>> Immigration should have been unfettered in 1893 because there was no
>>> welfare state in existence then. The combination of unrestricted
>>> immigration and a comprehensive welfare system has the potential to
>>> bankrupt the U.S. I have no idea if immigrants make up a larger part of the
>>> welfare system than any other, just that the potential is there.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 11:35 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>


>>>
>

[AFMUG] This is all your fault Jaime S

So I paid attention to Jaime's Mexican steak recipe a few weeks ago.

I made tacos and fajitas tonight, green peppers, onion, fresh garlic, salt,
pepper, homemade taco seasoning, hand made flour tortillas, cayenne pepper
and lime on everything, lettuce, 4 cheese blend, refried beans, Mexican
rice, sour cream...

My problem though is my wife made 2 dozen homemade chocolate chip cookies
yesterday, and over 120 butter cookies.

I'm too fat to eat more, and they all look too good to not eat!

Thanks Jaime! :)

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

Every poll has him losing the Presidential election. There's plenty of time
for things to change, Clinton still has time for court, and Trump still has
time to release his tax records.
On Mar 13, 2016 7:56 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:

> I don’t know Rick Perry very well, seems more like doofus to me, not a
> leader.  And I listen to everybody, but the constant B.S. just puts me
> off.  Now that I’ve seen how the sausage is made, my B.S. detector is on
> overly sensitive.  Still, everything comes back to the what’s good for the
> country and what makes me worry more than anything is that I don’t see
> either party putting country first.  I think that is now going to be left
> in the hands of the citizens and right now, I think Donald Trump.  If I’m
> wrong, I’ll come out and apologize next year.  But if I’m right, we all win.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:47 PM
> *To:* Animal Farm
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>
>
>
> Rick is a prick...my ex wife is a Perry and she told me that 20 years
> ago...funny no one caught my calling Rubio and Cruz coconuts.in 70s you
> would not missed that...
> Like i recommended ..stop watching Fox and listening to Rush
> Limbosas..too easy
>
> On Mar 13, 2016 6:20 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:
>
> The guy who did the video is only charged with a felon on the act of
> recording, not what he recorded which was still true.  They were selling
> body parts.  They aren’t getting him on doctoring a video, they are getting
> him because it’s illegal for one person to record a conversation.  It’s
> kind of like when they audited Ben Carson or when the indicted D’Souza,
> total political bullshit.  Then when they don’t indict Hillary for far
> worse on many fronts, Sharpton, Black Panthers, the IRS, etc…, you can see
> the corruption in the Justice Department so don’t go buy the fact someone
> is being indicted.   Heck, Rick Perry was under an illegal indictment by
> the Democrats that finally got thrown out of court.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 3:57 PM
> *To:* Animal Farm
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>
>
>
> The videos were edited...guys who did it facing charges in Houston. That
> said I am anti abortion.  As a Catholic but more as a caring human being.
>
> Many gay couples are good parents...and some stay together longer than
> traditional couples we need better parenting.its hard for parents
> to compete with all the electronics that our children can see and hear.  I
> get upset that one of grandsons is allowed to watch Walking Dead crap.  He
> is 4when they are here I make sure they don't watch crap like
> that...even Nick has stupid cartoons.   I digress too many people
> having kids that have no idea of what it takes
>
> Why dont  you GOPers get Ryan to run?  Oh wait... he said no!Too
> easysorry.. OK how about Mitt?  Oops my bad..
>
> On Mar 13, 2016 4:41 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here.
>
>
>
> I don't care about gay marriage.  I'm not gay, I know a handful of gay
> people.  Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right
> telling them what they can or can't do.
>
>
>
> Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt.   Now, I'm not so
> sure on that.  When I was growing up there were few gay couples who had
> "come out" and we thought if the girl had a different last name than her
> mommy we thought that was odd.  Quite a bit different now but it could
> still screw with a kids head in terms of "traditional marriage".
>
>
>
> It would be hard to NOT state that traditional marriage has gone to hell
> in this country.  But then again, so many "traditional" things have gone to
> hell.  How many women stay at home and take care of the family while dad
> goes to work?
>
>
>
> I am in favor of defunding planned parenthood.  The videos pretty much got
> to me.  It's MY TAX DOLLARS.  Defund it.  There are plenty of other
> non-government-funded entities who can do that work.
>
>
>
> Any tax is bad :)
>
>
>
> I'm going to stop there, i will get in trouble... lol
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:02 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>
>
>
> His stances:
> Gay marriage is wrong
> He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple
> Defund planned parenthood
> Raising corporate tax is bad
> Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles.
> Wants to drill in ANWR
> Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy.
> Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees.
> Votes for PATRIOT act over and over
> Voted to allow warantless electronic surveillance against us citizens
> Denied

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

I will check this out and personally I think there is great medical value to 
proper and ethical stem cell research.  However, what those people said is 
undeniable and the indictment doesn’t change that.  I still haven’t heard a 
defense why the same people indicting them can’t indict Democratic crooks.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

Yeah, that's not true. Do the research.
On Mar 13, 2016 7:20 PM, "Rory Conaway" 
> wrote:
The guy who did the video is only charged with a felon on the act of recording, 
not what he recorded which was still true.  They were selling body parts.  They 
aren’t getting him on doctoring a video, they are getting him because it’s 
illegal for one person to record a conversation.  It’s kind of like when they 
audited Ben Carson or when the indicted D’Souza, total political bullshit.  
Then when they don’t indict Hillary for far worse on many fronts, Sharpton, 
Black Panthers, the IRS, etc…, you can see the corruption in the Justice 
Department so don’t go buy the fact someone is being indicted.   Heck, Rick 
Perry was under an illegal indictment by the Democrats that finally got thrown 
out of court.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 3:57 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

The videos were edited...guys who did it facing charges in Houston. That said I 
am anti abortion.  As a Catholic but more as a caring human being.

Many gay couples are good parents...and some stay together longer than 
traditional couples we need better parenting.its hard for parents to 
compete with all the electronics that our children can see and hear.  I get 
upset that one of grandsons is allowed to watch Walking Dead crap.  He is 
4when they are here I make sure they don't watch crap like that...even Nick 
has stupid cartoons.   I digress too many people having kids that have no 
idea of what it takes

Why dont  you GOPers get Ryan to run?  Oh wait... he said no!Too 
easysorry.. OK how about Mitt?  Oops my bad..
On Mar 13, 2016 4:41 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
> wrote:

Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here.

I don't care about gay marriage.  I'm not gay, I know a handful of gay people.  
Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right telling them what 
they can or can't do.

Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt.   Now, I'm not so sure on 
that.  When I was growing up there were few gay couples who had "come out" and 
we thought if the girl had a different last name than her mommy we thought that 
was odd.  Quite a bit different now but it could still screw with a kids head 
in terms of "traditional marriage".

It would be hard to NOT state that traditional marriage has gone to hell in 
this country.  But then again, so many "traditional" things have gone to hell.  
How many women stay at home and take care of the family while dad goes to work?

I am in favor of defunding planned parenthood.  The videos pretty much got to 
me.  It's MY TAX DOLLARS.  Defund it.  There are plenty of other 
non-government-funded entities who can do that work.

Any tax is bad :)

I'm going to stop there, i will get in trouble... lol

- Original Message -
From: Josh Reynolds
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

His stances:
Gay marriage is wrong
He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple
Defund planned parenthood
Raising corporate tax is bad
Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles.
Wants to drill in ANWR
Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy.
Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees.
Votes for PATRIOT act over and over
Voted to allow warantless electronic surveillance against us citizens
Denied additional funding that would provide expanded child healthcare
"Let's build a fence!"
Voted NO on reporting / deporting illegal immigrants who received hospital 
treatment

Etc. A few things I like him on, but mostly he's a "nope" for me.
On Mar 13, 2016 4:46 PM, "Ken Hohhof" > 
wrote:
Hey, I said I liked him.  Just not full on man crush.

I didn’t see how his math added up for the budgets he proposed.  There were 
some missing pages where magic happened to balance the budget.  Seemed like the 
same old voodoo economics.

So “man crush”, is that like Trump and Putin?  At least Putin is supposedly an 
8th degree black belt.  He would probably take care of the protester himself.  
If Trump thinks he can bully the Putins of the world, I’m not so sure.  I think 
McCain could take him in a fair fight.  Hell, Bernie could probably take him.  
I

Re: [AFMUG] "Attack on trump" video

How is his "small $1mil loan" from his father that he used to build his
empire (bankrupt several times), make him a viable candidate for the
highest office in the land?
On Mar 13, 2016 7:54 PM, "Travis Johnson"  wrote:

> I agree with this statement 100%. I have said this about Trump for almost
> six months now, and everyone laughed. I'm tired of the same ol' same
> ol' lifetime politicians that take money from special interest groups
> to keep everything running.
>
> It's time for a change. Say what you want about Trump, but even Fortune
> magazine has him at a $5 Billion Net Worth. Even if he did start with $1
> million from his dad 40 years ago, turning that into $5,000 million is
> pretty damn impressive.
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 3/13/2016 11:12 AM, Rory Conaway wrote:
>
> Seriously Jaime, craven lackeys?  I guess I’ve been called worse.  Are you
> even curious why both the Republican establishment and George Soros are
> both out to get him?  And don’t you want to find out what would happen if
> we put a real businessman in the White House instead of some stooge? As
> businessmen yourselves, I thought you would respect that.  Instead, you are
> more interested in your ideology than your economic welfare.
>
>
>
> There are those of us who simply want someone in power for once who isn’t
> owned by the establishment.  If that’s Trump, so be it.  I’d take Triumph,
> the Insult Comic dog over anything the Democrats have and clearly over Cruz
> or Rubio who have both tried to sell us out.  We are $19T in debt and it’s
> getting worse.  Other countries are bleeding us dry.   Hope and Change was
> a disaster and the corruption and immigration is worse, not better.  We are
> on the cusp of possibly electing the most evil liar ever, Hillary Clinton,
> and you think Trump would be worse without having any idea how he would
> govern.
>
>
>
> Wow.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 9:36 AM
> *To:* Animal Farm
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "Attack on trump" video
>
>
>
> If someone really wants to get him no secret service is going to prevent
> it...and it doesn't have to a gun.   I don't want someone to kill him.
> Thats not what are about..  how ugly that someone in crowd yells kill him
> about protester.Trumps followers are craven lackeys (old cold war term-
> blind followers in simple language ).   Sounded like a gladiator event.
> Sad
>
> On Mar 13, 2016 10:13 AM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:
>
> I had never watched this before, but I came across it today.
>
>
> https://video.twimg.com//ext_tw_video//708728294708015104//pu//vid//640x360//yHRkyZIQTjmheSW4.mp4
> 
>
> "Kill him!"
>
> "Kick his ass Donald!"... hah, I did laugh at the yelling
>
> The very first thing I noticed was the super weird reactions by the
> Secret Service. Pay attention to how long it takes for somebody to
> actually stand in *front* of him, and then *behind* him. I know a bit
> about VIP protection. Not a lot mind you, but a bit. They don't seem
> the least bit worried that this was a simple misdirection to pull the
> Secret Service's attention away from the real plan. Then they open his
> circle of protection back up *very* quickly...
>
> Maybe I'm overanalyzing the video, and maybe I'm thinking too highly
> of the capabilities and training of the Secret Service... but this all
> just looks like amateur hour to me.
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

I don’t know Rick Perry very well, seems more like doofus to me, not a leader.  
And I listen to everybody, but the constant B.S. just puts me off.  Now that 
I’ve seen how the sausage is made, my B.S. detector is on overly sensitive.  
Still, everything comes back to the what’s good for the country and what makes 
me worry more than anything is that I don’t see either party putting country 
first.  I think that is now going to be left in the hands of the citizens and 
right now, I think Donald Trump.  If I’m wrong, I’ll come out and apologize 
next year.  But if I’m right, we all win.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:47 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

Rick is a prick...my ex wife is a Perry and she told me that 20 years 
ago...funny no one caught my calling Rubio and Cruz coconuts.in 70s you 
would not missed that...
Like i recommended ..stop watching Fox and listening to Rush Limbosas..too 
easy
On Mar 13, 2016 6:20 PM, "Rory Conaway" 
> wrote:
The guy who did the video is only charged with a felon on the act of recording, 
not what he recorded which was still true.  They were selling body parts.  They 
aren’t getting him on doctoring a video, they are getting him because it’s 
illegal for one person to record a conversation.  It’s kind of like when they 
audited Ben Carson or when the indicted D’Souza, total political bullshit.  
Then when they don’t indict Hillary for far worse on many fronts, Sharpton, 
Black Panthers, the IRS, etc…, you can see the corruption in the Justice 
Department so don’t go buy the fact someone is being indicted.   Heck, Rick 
Perry was under an illegal indictment by the Democrats that finally got thrown 
out of court.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 3:57 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

The videos were edited...guys who did it facing charges in Houston. That said I 
am anti abortion.  As a Catholic but more as a caring human being.

Many gay couples are good parents...and some stay together longer than 
traditional couples we need better parenting.its hard for parents to 
compete with all the electronics that our children can see and hear.  I get 
upset that one of grandsons is allowed to watch Walking Dead crap.  He is 
4when they are here I make sure they don't watch crap like that...even Nick 
has stupid cartoons.   I digress too many people having kids that have no 
idea of what it takes

Why dont  you GOPers get Ryan to run?  Oh wait... he said no!Too 
easysorry.. OK how about Mitt?  Oops my bad..
On Mar 13, 2016 4:41 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
> wrote:

Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here.

I don't care about gay marriage.  I'm not gay, I know a handful of gay people.  
Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right telling them what 
they can or can't do.

Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt.   Now, I'm not so sure on 
that.  When I was growing up there were few gay couples who had "come out" and 
we thought if the girl had a different last name than her mommy we thought that 
was odd.  Quite a bit different now but it could still screw with a kids head 
in terms of "traditional marriage".

It would be hard to NOT state that traditional marriage has gone to hell in 
this country.  But then again, so many "traditional" things have gone to hell.  
How many women stay at home and take care of the family while dad goes to work?

I am in favor of defunding planned parenthood.  The videos pretty much got to 
me.  It's MY TAX DOLLARS.  Defund it.  There are plenty of other 
non-government-funded entities who can do that work.

Any tax is bad :)

I'm going to stop there, i will get in trouble... lol

- Original Message -
From: Josh Reynolds
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

His stances:
Gay marriage is wrong
He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple
Defund planned parenthood
Raising corporate tax is bad
Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles.
Wants to drill in ANWR
Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy.
Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees.
Votes for PATRIOT act over and over
Voted to allow warantless electronic surveillance against us citizens
Denied additional funding that would provide expanded child healthcare
"Let's build a fence!"
Voted NO on reporting / deporting illegal immigrants who received hospital 
treatment

Etc. A few things I like him on, but mostly he's a "nope" for me.
On Mar 13, 2016 4:46 PM, "Ken Hohhof" > 
wrote:
Hey, I said I liked him.  Just not full on man crush.

I

Re: [AFMUG] "Attack on trump" video

2016-03-13 Thread Travis Johnson

I agree with this statement 100%. I have said this about Trump for
almost six months now, and everyone laughed. I'm tired of the same ol'
same ol' lifetime politicians that take money from special interest
groups to keep everything running.

It's time for a change. Say what you want about Trump, but even Fortune
magazine has him at a $5 Billion Net Worth. Even if he did start with $1
million from his dad 40 years ago, turning that into $5,000 million is
pretty damn impressive.

Travis

On 3/13/2016 11:12 AM, Rory Conaway wrote:

Seriously Jaime, craven lackeys? I guess I’ve been called worse. Are
you even curious why both the Republican establishment and George
Soros are both out to get him? And don’t you want to find out what
would happen if we put a real businessman in the White House instead
of some stooge? As businessmen yourselves, I thought you would respect
that. Instead, you are more interested in your ideology than your
economic welfare.

There are those of us who simply want someone in power for once who
isn’t owned by the establishment. If that’s Trump, so be it. I’d
take Triumph, the Insult Comic dog over anything the Democrats have
and clearly over Cruz or Rubio who have both tried to sell us out. We
are $19T in debt and it’s getting worse. Other countries are bleeding
us dry. Hope and Change was a disaster and the corruption and
immigration is worse, not better. We are on the cusp of possibly
electing the most evil liar ever, Hillary Clinton, and you think Trump
would be worse without having any idea how he would govern.

Wow.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
*Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 9:36 AM
*To:* Animal Farm
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "Attack on trump" video

If someone really wants to get him no secret service is going to
prevent it...and it doesn't have to a gun. I don't want someone to
kill him. Thats not what are about.. how ugly that someone in crowd
yells kill him about protester. Trumps followers are craven lackeys
(old cold war term- blind followers in simple language ). Sounded
like a gladiator event. Sad

On Mar 13, 2016 10:13 AM, "Josh Reynolds" > wrote:

I had never watched this before, but I came across it today.

https://video.twimg.com//ext_tw_video//708728294708015104//pu//vid//640x360//yHRkyZIQTjmheSW4.mp4

"Kill him!"

"Kick his ass Donald!"... hah, I did laugh at the yelling

The very first thing I noticed was the super weird reactions by the
Secret Service. Pay attention to how long it takes for somebody to
actually stand in *front* of him, and then *behind* him. I know a bit
about VIP protection. Not a lot mind you, but a bit. They don't seem
the least bit worried that this was a simple misdirection to pull the
Secret Service's attention away from the real plan. Then they open his
circle of protection back up *very* quickly...

Maybe I'm overanalyzing the video, and maybe I'm thinking too highly
of the capabilities and training of the Secret Service... but this all
just looks like amateur hour to me.

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

Yeah, that's not true. Do the research.
On Mar 13, 2016 7:20 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:

> The guy who did the video is only charged with a felon on the act of
> recording, not what he recorded which was still true.  They were selling
> body parts.  They aren’t getting him on doctoring a video, they are getting
> him because it’s illegal for one person to record a conversation.  It’s
> kind of like when they audited Ben Carson or when the indicted D’Souza,
> total political bullshit.  Then when they don’t indict Hillary for far
> worse on many fronts, Sharpton, Black Panthers, the IRS, etc…, you can see
> the corruption in the Justice Department so don’t go buy the fact someone
> is being indicted.   Heck, Rick Perry was under an illegal indictment by
> the Democrats that finally got thrown out of court.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 3:57 PM
> *To:* Animal Farm
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>
>
>
> The videos were edited...guys who did it facing charges in Houston. That
> said I am anti abortion.  As a Catholic but more as a caring human being.
>
> Many gay couples are good parents...and some stay together longer than
> traditional couples we need better parenting.its hard for parents
> to compete with all the electronics that our children can see and hear.  I
> get upset that one of grandsons is allowed to watch Walking Dead crap.  He
> is 4when they are here I make sure they don't watch crap like
> that...even Nick has stupid cartoons.   I digress too many people
> having kids that have no idea of what it takes
>
> Why dont  you GOPers get Ryan to run?  Oh wait... he said no!Too
> easysorry.. OK how about Mitt?  Oops my bad..
>
> On Mar 13, 2016 4:41 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here.
>
>
>
> I don't care about gay marriage.  I'm not gay, I know a handful of gay
> people.  Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right
> telling them what they can or can't do.
>
>
>
> Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt.   Now, I'm not so
> sure on that.  When I was growing up there were few gay couples who had
> "come out" and we thought if the girl had a different last name than her
> mommy we thought that was odd.  Quite a bit different now but it could
> still screw with a kids head in terms of "traditional marriage".
>
>
>
> It would be hard to NOT state that traditional marriage has gone to hell
> in this country.  But then again, so many "traditional" things have gone to
> hell.  How many women stay at home and take care of the family while dad
> goes to work?
>
>
>
> I am in favor of defunding planned parenthood.  The videos pretty much got
> to me.  It's MY TAX DOLLARS.  Defund it.  There are plenty of other
> non-government-funded entities who can do that work.
>
>
>
> Any tax is bad :)
>
>
>
> I'm going to stop there, i will get in trouble... lol
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:02 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>
>
>
> His stances:
> Gay marriage is wrong
> He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple
> Defund planned parenthood
> Raising corporate tax is bad
> Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles.
> Wants to drill in ANWR
> Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy.
> Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees.
> Votes for PATRIOT act over and over
> Voted to allow warantless electronic surveillance against us citizens
> Denied additional funding that would provide expanded child healthcare
> "Let's build a fence!"
> Voted NO on reporting / deporting illegal immigrants who received hospital
> treatment
>
> Etc. A few things I like him on, but mostly he's a "nope" for me.
>
> On Mar 13, 2016 4:46 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:
>
> Hey, I said I liked him.  Just not full on man crush.
>
>
>
> I didn’t see how his math added up for the budgets he proposed.  There
> were some missing pages where magic happened to balance the budget.  Seemed
> like the same old voodoo economics.
>
>
>
> So “man crush”, is that like Trump and Putin?  At least Putin is
> supposedly an 8th degree black belt.  He would probably take care of the
> protester himself.  If Trump thinks he can bully the Putins of the world,
> I’m not so sure.  I think McCain could take him in a fair fight.  Hell,
> Bernie could probably take him.  I was never fond of Nixon, but the photo
> of the “kitchen debate” with Khrushchev is a treasure.
>
> http://spectator.org/articles/41740/how-handle-bully-nixon-vs-khrushchev
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller 
>
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:19 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>
>
>
>
>
> I have actually followed Paul

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

Why does any church need to be involved with reproductive care,
contraception, or abortion?

Those are medical issues.
On Mar 13, 2016 6:48 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
wrote:

>
> Actually, my belief is here in the deep south we have a church on every
> corner.  Let the churches handle itthey are more than capable.
>
> My tax dollars aren't needed for this. (or many other things)
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Ken Hohhof 
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:18 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>
> What many people who lose sleep over Planned Parenthood are actually upset
> about is they offer birth control.  Some people obsess about poor people
> having sex without the punishment of getting pregnant.  See this if you
> forgot:
>
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_Limbaugh%E2%80%93Sandra_Fluke_controversy
>
> I don’t understand how you can be extremely anti-abortion yet also
> extremely anti-contraception.  Less unwanted pregnancies = less abortions.
> Which is the lesser evil?
>
> I think it comes down to some people are obsessed with sex, especially
> “other” people having sex.  #nosyneighbors #getalife
>
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:48 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>
>
> Did you research that video? You should. It's not what you think.
> On Mar 13, 2016 5:41 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here.
>>
>> I don't care about gay marriage.  I'm not gay, I know a handful of gay
>> people.  Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right
>> telling them what they can or can't do.
>>
>> Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt.   Now, I'm not so
>> sure on that.  When I was growing up there were few gay couples who had
>> "come out" and we thought if the girl had a different last name than her
>> mommy we thought that was odd.  Quite a bit different now but it could
>> still screw with a kids head in terms of "traditional marriage".
>>
>> It would be hard to NOT state that traditional marriage has gone to hell
>> in this country.  But then again, so many "traditional" things have gone to
>> hell.  How many women stay at home and take care of the family while dad
>> goes to work?
>>
>> I am in favor of defunding planned parenthood.  The videos pretty much
>> got to me.  It's MY TAX DOLLARS.  Defund it.  There are plenty of other
>> non-government-funded entities who can do that work.
>>
>> Any tax is bad :)
>>
>> I'm going to stop there, i will get in trouble... lol
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:02 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>
>> His stances:
>> Gay marriage is wrong
>> He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple
>> Defund planned parenthood
>> Raising corporate tax is bad
>> Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles.
>> Wants to drill in ANWR
>> Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy.
>> Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees.
>> Votes for PATRIOT act over and over
>> Voted to allow warantless electronic surveillance against us citizens
>> Denied additional funding that would provide expanded child healthcare
>> "Let's build a fence!"
>> Voted NO on reporting / deporting illegal immigrants who received
>> hospital treatment
>>
>> Etc. A few things I like him on, but mostly he's a "nope" for me.
>> On Mar 13, 2016 4:46 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:
>>
>>> Hey, I said I liked him.  Just not full on man crush.
>>>
>>> I didn’t see how his math added up for the budgets he proposed.  There
>>> were some missing pages where magic happened to balance the budget.  Seemed
>>> like the same old voodoo economics.
>>>
>>> So “man crush”, is that like Trump and Putin?  At least Putin is
>>> supposedly an 8th degree black belt.  He would probably take care of the
>>> protester himself.  If Trump thinks he can bully the Putins of the world,
>>> I’m not so sure.  I think McCain could take him in a fair fight.  Hell,
>>> Bernie could probably take him.  I was never fond of Nixon, but the photo
>>> of the “kitchen debate” with Khrushchev is a treasure.
>>> http://spectator.org/articles/41740/how-handle-bully-nixon-vs-khrushchev
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller 
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:19 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>>
>>>
>>> I have actually followed Paul Ryan since the first time he appeared on
>>> the national stage.  Very impressed with him.  Could almost call him my
>>> "man crush".   I'd be interested in hearing what you do not like about him
>>> Ken.
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> *From:* Ken Hohhof 
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 2:04 PM
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

Rick is a prick...my ex wife is a Perry and she told me that 20 years
ago...funny no one caught my calling Rubio and Cruz coconuts.in 70s you
would not missed that...
Like i recommended ..stop watching Fox and listening to Rush
Limbosas..too easy
On Mar 13, 2016 6:20 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:

> The guy who did the video is only charged with a felon on the act of
> recording, not what he recorded which was still true.  They were selling
> body parts.  They aren’t getting him on doctoring a video, they are getting
> him because it’s illegal for one person to record a conversation.  It’s
> kind of like when they audited Ben Carson or when the indicted D’Souza,
> total political bullshit.  Then when they don’t indict Hillary for far
> worse on many fronts, Sharpton, Black Panthers, the IRS, etc…, you can see
> the corruption in the Justice Department so don’t go buy the fact someone
> is being indicted.   Heck, Rick Perry was under an illegal indictment by
> the Democrats that finally got thrown out of court.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 3:57 PM
> *To:* Animal Farm
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>
>
>
> The videos were edited...guys who did it facing charges in Houston. That
> said I am anti abortion.  As a Catholic but more as a caring human being.
>
> Many gay couples are good parents...and some stay together longer than
> traditional couples we need better parenting.its hard for parents
> to compete with all the electronics that our children can see and hear.  I
> get upset that one of grandsons is allowed to watch Walking Dead crap.  He
> is 4when they are here I make sure they don't watch crap like
> that...even Nick has stupid cartoons.   I digress too many people
> having kids that have no idea of what it takes
>
> Why dont  you GOPers get Ryan to run?  Oh wait... he said no!Too
> easysorry.. OK how about Mitt?  Oops my bad..
>
> On Mar 13, 2016 4:41 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here.
>
>
>
> I don't care about gay marriage.  I'm not gay, I know a handful of gay
> people.  Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right
> telling them what they can or can't do.
>
>
>
> Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt.   Now, I'm not so
> sure on that.  When I was growing up there were few gay couples who had
> "come out" and we thought if the girl had a different last name than her
> mommy we thought that was odd.  Quite a bit different now but it could
> still screw with a kids head in terms of "traditional marriage".
>
>
>
> It would be hard to NOT state that traditional marriage has gone to hell
> in this country.  But then again, so many "traditional" things have gone to
> hell.  How many women stay at home and take care of the family while dad
> goes to work?
>
>
>
> I am in favor of defunding planned parenthood.  The videos pretty much got
> to me.  It's MY TAX DOLLARS.  Defund it.  There are plenty of other
> non-government-funded entities who can do that work.
>
>
>
> Any tax is bad :)
>
>
>
> I'm going to stop there, i will get in trouble... lol
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:02 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>
>
>
> His stances:
> Gay marriage is wrong
> He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple
> Defund planned parenthood
> Raising corporate tax is bad
> Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles.
> Wants to drill in ANWR
> Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy.
> Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees.
> Votes for PATRIOT act over and over
> Voted to allow warantless electronic surveillance against us citizens
> Denied additional funding that would provide expanded child healthcare
> "Let's build a fence!"
> Voted NO on reporting / deporting illegal immigrants who received hospital
> treatment
>
> Etc. A few things I like him on, but mostly he's a "nope" for me.
>
> On Mar 13, 2016 4:46 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:
>
> Hey, I said I liked him.  Just not full on man crush.
>
>
>
> I didn’t see how his math added up for the budgets he proposed.  There
> were some missing pages where magic happened to balance the budget.  Seemed
> like the same old voodoo economics.
>
>
>
> So “man crush”, is that like Trump and Putin?  At least Putin is
> supposedly an 8th degree black belt.  He would probably take care of the
> protester himself.  If Trump thinks he can bully the Putins of the world,
> I’m not so sure.  I think McCain could take him in a fair fight.  Hell,
> Bernie could probably take him.  I was never fond of Nixon, but the photo
> of the “kitchen debate” with Khrushchev is a treasure.
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

I understand that many of you may be anti-abortion, but are you also
anti-science?  When people donate the fetal tissue for research purposes
where do you think that it goes?  There is cost involved in the storage and
transport of that tissue.  The medical breakthroughs that have come from
stem cells and fetal tissue research have been incredible.

"Historically, the use of fetal tissue has produced some groundbreaking
scientific discoveries.According to the American Society for Cell Biology
, a nonprofit representing a
large and varied group of scientists, “Fetal cells hold unique promise for
biomedical research due to their ability to rapidly divide, grow, and adapt
to new environments. This makes fetal tissue research relevant to a wide
variety of diseases and medical conditions.”

According to the Guttmacher Institute, a nonprofit focused on sexual and
reproductive health, tissue from fetuses has been used since the 1930s
 for a variety of
purposes. Perhaps most famously, the 1954 Nobel Prize in medicine
 was
awarded to researchers who managed to grow polio vaccine in fetal kidney
cell cultures.

In another example, Leonard Hayflick created a cell line from an aborted
fetus in the early 1960s that has been used to create vaccines against
measles, rubella, shingles and other diseases. Paul Offit
, director of the
Vaccine Education Center at the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, told
the journal *Nature*

in
2013 that “[t]hese cells from one fetus have no doubt saved the lives of
millions of people.”

On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 6:23 PM, Jeremy  wrote:

>
> https://www.plannedparenthood.org/about-us/newsroom/press-releases/daleiden-admits-to-deceptively-editing-videos
>
> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 6:20 PM, Rory Conaway 
> wrote:
>
>> The guy who did the video is only charged with a felon on the act of
>> recording, not what he recorded which was still true.  They were selling
>> body parts.  They aren’t getting him on doctoring a video, they are getting
>> him because it’s illegal for one person to record a conversation.  It’s
>> kind of like when they audited Ben Carson or when the indicted D’Souza,
>> total political bullshit.  Then when they don’t indict Hillary for far
>> worse on many fronts, Sharpton, Black Panthers, the IRS, etc…, you can see
>> the corruption in the Justice Department so don’t go buy the fact someone
>> is being indicted.   Heck, Rick Perry was under an illegal indictment by
>> the Democrats that finally got thrown out of court.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 3:57 PM
>> *To:* Animal Farm
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>
>>
>>
>> The videos were edited...guys who did it facing charges in Houston. That
>> said I am anti abortion.  As a Catholic but more as a caring human being.
>>
>> Many gay couples are good parents...and some stay together longer than
>> traditional couples we need better parenting.its hard for parents
>> to compete with all the electronics that our children can see and hear.  I
>> get upset that one of grandsons is allowed to watch Walking Dead crap.  He
>> is 4when they are here I make sure they don't watch crap like
>> that...even Nick has stupid cartoons.   I digress too many people
>> having kids that have no idea of what it takes
>>
>> Why dont  you GOPers get Ryan to run?  Oh wait... he said no!Too
>> easysorry.. OK how about Mitt?  Oops my bad..
>>
>> On Mar 13, 2016 4:41 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here.
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't care about gay marriage.  I'm not gay, I know a handful of gay
>> people.  Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right
>> telling them what they can or can't do.
>>
>>
>>
>> Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt.   Now, I'm not so
>> sure on that.  When I was growing up there were few gay couples who had
>> "come out" and we thought if the girl had a different last name than her
>> mommy we thought that was odd.  Quite a bit different now but it could
>> still screw with a kids head in terms of "traditional marriage".
>>
>>
>>
>> It would be hard to NOT state that traditional marriage has gone to hell
>> in this country.  But then again, so many "traditional" things have gone to
>> hell.  How many women stay at home and take care of the family while dad
>> goes to work?
>>
>>
>>
>> I am in favor of defunding planned parenthood.  The videos pretty much
>> got to me.  It's MY TAX DOLLARS.  Defund it.  There are plenty of other
>> non-government-funded

Re: [AFMUG] OT Anti-immigration - Puck 1893

2016-03-13 Thread Jerry Head

" Kind of like the drug problem. As long as you don't penalize the user 
you get increasing demand."


This has got to be one of the most ignorant comments I have ever seen on 
this list.

Wow

On 3/13/2016 6:35 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:


I agree with that. Kind of like the drug problem. As long as you don't 
penalize the user you get increasing demand. If you don't punish the 
employer you get increasing demand.



On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 2:56 PM Jaime Solorza > wrote:


Far less than many believe you need documentation which of
course can be faked...but percentage wise more welfare in southern
states.  Most undocumented workers fend for themselves holding two
or three shit jobs no one wants.   See who is working on highways
late at night or in hot sun in Texas...a white foreman and ton of
Hispanics I have travelled just about every rode in Texas
go to Chile harvests in Hatch,NM.  Like I said..no demand,  no
supply simple Adam Smith theory in action.

On Mar 13, 2016 1:06 PM, "Lewis Bergman" > wrote:

Immigration should have been unfettered in 1893 because there
was no welfare state in existence then. The combination of
unrestricted immigration and a comprehensive welfare system
has the potential to bankrupt the U.S. I have no idea if
immigrants make up a larger part of the welfare system than
any other, just that the potential is there.


On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 11:35 AM Chuck McCown > wrote:

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/about-us/newsroom/press-releases/daleiden-admits-to-deceptively-editing-videos

On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 6:20 PM, Rory Conaway 
wrote:

> The guy who did the video is only charged with a felon on the act of
> recording, not what he recorded which was still true.  They were selling
> body parts.  They aren’t getting him on doctoring a video, they are getting
> him because it’s illegal for one person to record a conversation.  It’s
> kind of like when they audited Ben Carson or when the indicted D’Souza,
> total political bullshit.  Then when they don’t indict Hillary for far
> worse on many fronts, Sharpton, Black Panthers, the IRS, etc…, you can see
> the corruption in the Justice Department so don’t go buy the fact someone
> is being indicted.   Heck, Rick Perry was under an illegal indictment by
> the Democrats that finally got thrown out of court.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 3:57 PM
> *To:* Animal Farm
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>
>
>
> The videos were edited...guys who did it facing charges in Houston. That
> said I am anti abortion.  As a Catholic but more as a caring human being.
>
> Many gay couples are good parents...and some stay together longer than
> traditional couples we need better parenting.its hard for parents
> to compete with all the electronics that our children can see and hear.  I
> get upset that one of grandsons is allowed to watch Walking Dead crap.  He
> is 4when they are here I make sure they don't watch crap like
> that...even Nick has stupid cartoons.   I digress too many people
> having kids that have no idea of what it takes
>
> Why dont  you GOPers get Ryan to run?  Oh wait... he said no!Too
> easysorry.. OK how about Mitt?  Oops my bad..
>
> On Mar 13, 2016 4:41 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here.
>
>
>
> I don't care about gay marriage.  I'm not gay, I know a handful of gay
> people.  Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right
> telling them what they can or can't do.
>
>
>
> Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt.   Now, I'm not so
> sure on that.  When I was growing up there were few gay couples who had
> "come out" and we thought if the girl had a different last name than her
> mommy we thought that was odd.  Quite a bit different now but it could
> still screw with a kids head in terms of "traditional marriage".
>
>
>
> It would be hard to NOT state that traditional marriage has gone to hell
> in this country.  But then again, so many "traditional" things have gone to
> hell.  How many women stay at home and take care of the family while dad
> goes to work?
>
>
>
> I am in favor of defunding planned parenthood.  The videos pretty much got
> to me.  It's MY TAX DOLLARS.  Defund it.  There are plenty of other
> non-government-funded entities who can do that work.
>
>
>
> Any tax is bad :)
>
>
>
> I'm going to stop there, i will get in trouble... lol
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:02 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>
>
>
> His stances:
> Gay marriage is wrong
> He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple
> Defund planned parenthood
> Raising corporate tax is bad
> Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles.
> Wants to drill in ANWR
> Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy.
> Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees.
> Votes for PATRIOT act over and over
> Voted to allow warantless electronic surveillance against us citizens
> Denied additional funding that would provide expanded child healthcare
> "Let's build a fence!"
> Voted NO on reporting / deporting illegal immigrants who received hospital
> treatment
>
> Etc. A few things I like him on, but mostly he's a "nope" for me.
>
> On Mar 13, 2016 4:46 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:
>
> Hey, I said I liked him.  Just not full on man crush.
>
>
>
> I didn’t see how his math added up for the budgets he proposed.  There
> were some missing pages where magic happened to balance the budget.  Seemed
> like the same old voodoo economics.
>
>
>
> So “man crush”, is that like Trump and Putin?  At least Putin is
> supposedly an 8th degree black belt.  He would probably take care of the
> protester himself.  If Trump thinks he can bully the Putins of the world,
> I’m not so sure.  I think McCain could take him in a fair fight.  Hell,
> Bernie could probably take him.  I was never fond of Nixon, but the photo
> of the “kitchen debate” with Khrushchev is a treasure.
>
> http://spectator.org/articles/41740/how-handle-bully-nixon-vs-khrushchev
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller 
>
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:19 PM
>
> *To:*

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

The guy who did the video is only charged with a felon on the act of recording, 
not what he recorded which was still true.  They were selling body parts.  They 
aren’t getting him on doctoring a video, they are getting him because it’s 
illegal for one person to record a conversation.  It’s kind of like when they 
audited Ben Carson or when the indicted D’Souza, total political bullshit.  
Then when they don’t indict Hillary for far worse on many fronts, Sharpton, 
Black Panthers, the IRS, etc…, you can see the corruption in the Justice 
Department so don’t go buy the fact someone is being indicted.   Heck, Rick 
Perry was under an illegal indictment by the Democrats that finally got thrown 
out of court.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 3:57 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan


The videos were edited...guys who did it facing charges in Houston. That said I 
am anti abortion.  As a Catholic but more as a caring human being.

Many gay couples are good parents...and some stay together longer than 
traditional couples we need better parenting.its hard for parents to 
compete with all the electronics that our children can see and hear.  I get 
upset that one of grandsons is allowed to watch Walking Dead crap.  He is 
4when they are here I make sure they don't watch crap like that...even Nick 
has stupid cartoons.   I digress too many people having kids that have no 
idea of what it takes

Why dont  you GOPers get Ryan to run?  Oh wait... he said no!Too 
easysorry.. OK how about Mitt?  Oops my bad..
On Mar 13, 2016 4:41 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
> wrote:

Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here.

I don't care about gay marriage.  I'm not gay, I know a handful of gay people.  
Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right telling them what 
they can or can't do.

Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt.   Now, I'm not so sure on 
that.  When I was growing up there were few gay couples who had "come out" and 
we thought if the girl had a different last name than her mommy we thought that 
was odd.  Quite a bit different now but it could still screw with a kids head 
in terms of "traditional marriage".

It would be hard to NOT state that traditional marriage has gone to hell in 
this country.  But then again, so many "traditional" things have gone to hell.  
How many women stay at home and take care of the family while dad goes to work?

I am in favor of defunding planned parenthood.  The videos pretty much got to 
me.  It's MY TAX DOLLARS.  Defund it.  There are plenty of other 
non-government-funded entities who can do that work.

Any tax is bad :)

I'm going to stop there, i will get in trouble... lol




- Original Message -
From: Josh Reynolds
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan


His stances:
Gay marriage is wrong
He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple
Defund planned parenthood
Raising corporate tax is bad
Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles.
Wants to drill in ANWR
Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy.
Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees.
Votes for PATRIOT act over and over
Voted to allow warantless electronic surveillance against us citizens
Denied additional funding that would provide expanded child healthcare
"Let's build a fence!"
Voted NO on reporting / deporting illegal immigrants who received hospital 
treatment

Etc. A few things I like him on, but mostly he's a "nope" for me.
On Mar 13, 2016 4:46 PM, "Ken Hohhof" > 
wrote:
Hey, I said I liked him.  Just not full on man crush.

I didn’t see how his math added up for the budgets he proposed.  There were 
some missing pages where magic happened to balance the budget.  Seemed like the 
same old voodoo economics.

So “man crush”, is that like Trump and Putin?  At least Putin is supposedly an 
8th degree black belt.  He would probably take care of the protester himself.  
If Trump thinks he can bully the Putins of the world, I’m not so sure.  I think 
McCain could take him in a fair fight.  Hell, Bernie could probably take him.  
I was never fond of Nixon, but the photo of the “kitchen debate” with 
Khrushchev is a treasure.
http://spectator.org/articles/41740/how-handle-bully-nixon-vs-khrushchev



From: CBB - Jay Fuller
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan


I have actually followed Paul Ryan since the first time he appeared on the 
national stage.  Very impressed with him.  Could almost call him my "man 
crush".   I'd be interested in hearing what you do not like about him Ken.

- Original Message -
From: Ken Hohhof
To:

Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the minute.....Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters, says he may pay legal fees - LA Times

2016-03-13 Thread Cameron Crum

I haven't seen Japan or Germany try to start any wars since then. While
some Japanese don't like us very much, they aren't out to cut our heads
off. I think the Germans for the most part know their leaders were wrong
and are content to live in their semi-socialist environment until the money
runs out. Although that might  be changing with all the refugees pouring in
there. With the rise of crime that will come with that, and the strain on
their social system, I'd bet you'll see some extremism rise again.

On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 6:58 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Well, when war wasn't on TV it was easier for the populace to ignore how
> horrific it is.  Now we try to pretend that we can fight a war without
> having the horrible parts.  Really, the horrible stuff still happens, but
> our people do it when they can get away with it, and the other guys don't
> care.
>
> Rather, I think everyone (both decision makers and the general public)
> should learn to accept that when you go to war you are inflicting death and
> horror on people from both sides.  You'll have dead and injured people,
> you'll have dead, injured, starving, and homeless civilians.  You'll have
> people go crazy.  You'll lose good will.  You'll have destruction.  You'll
> have your blood and wealth tied up in it until it's over.  It won't be over
> until it's over.  When it's over, we might have stirred up some new
> conflict inadvertently.  If we aren't willing to live with those
> consequences then we shouldn't do it.  If we ARE willing to do it, then
> don't fool around; go destroy the enemy as thoroughly as possible.
>
> Remember when we used to declare wars?  I don't. I think that went out of
> style before most of us were born.  It's hard to get congress to get behind
> a war, so we call it an operation or intervention or engagement.  Just a
> little operation overseas, we'll have our people back in 18 months no
> problem guys I swear.
>
>
>
> On 3/13/2016 7:27 PM, Cameron Crum wrote:
>
> In WWII and prior we weren't so concerned about "image" and collateral
> damage and what the politicians thought. We wiped out the will to fight by
> shear destruction. If you aren't willing to break your enemy, don't go
> fight. There is no making friends with those who would rather see your head
> and body detached.
>
> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 6:13 PM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> No kidding. You would have thought after Vietnam we would have picked up
>> a book on Afghanistan.
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 6:03 PM Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Only you and few others on list are old enough to remember that stuff in
>>> Iraq with the Shah.  You are correct we should have left the Brits all that
>>> mess especially Afghanistan they don't teach this in high schools...
>>> maybe at good colleges...
>>> On Mar 13, 2016 4:48 PM, "Lewis Bergman" < <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
>>> lewis.berg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Actually, I think we screwed up the middle East when we drew those
>>>> lines after WWI. Obama isn't the first to miss an opportunity. I was always
>>>> against going into Iraq when we did. We should have gone in when he was
>>>> gassing his own people, if ever.
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 4:57 PM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I don’t think the guy ever got the ring back.
>>>>>
>>>>> One thing that really bugs me about Obama is that he had a really good
>>>>> chance to support the Syrian rebels at the start of that mess (along with
>>>>> the whole region Arab Spring movement) and he didn’t.  Will never
>>>>> understand that.  He clearly isn’t against bombing.  Now Syria is in a
>>>>> similar mess as Iraq.
>>>>>
>>>>> After WWII it seems we intervene and it regularly goes to crap.  We
>>>>> don’t and it goes to crap.  There must be a lesson in there somewhere.
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess Panama and Grenada are positive outcomes.  Where else?
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 3:47 PM
>>>>> *To:* <af@afmug.com>af@afmug.com
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the
>>>>> minute.Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters,
>>>>> says he may pay legal fees - LA Times
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>&

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

it's not.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Jason McKemie 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:56 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

  I hope that's a bad joke.

  On Sunday, March 13, 2016, CBB - Jay Fuller  wrote:

Actually, my belief is here in the deep south we have a church on every 
corner.  Let the churches handle itthey are more than capable.

My tax dollars aren't needed for this. (or many other things)

  - Original Message - 
  From: Ken Hohhof 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:18 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

  What many people who lose sleep over Planned Parenthood are actually 
upset about is they offer birth control.  Some people obsess about poor people 
having sex without the punishment of getting pregnant.  See this if you forgot:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_Limbaugh%E2%80%93Sandra_Fluke_controversy

  I don’t understand how you can be extremely anti-abortion yet also 
extremely anti-contraception.  Less unwanted pregnancies = less abortions.  
Which is the lesser evil?

  I think it comes down to some people are obsessed with sex, especially 
“other” people having sex.  #nosyneighbors #getalife

  From: Josh Reynolds 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:48 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

  Did you research that video? You should. It's not what you think.

  On Mar 13, 2016 5:41 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  
wrote:

Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here.

I don't care about gay marriage.  I'm not gay, I know a handful of gay 
people.  Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right telling 
them what they can or can't do.

Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt.   Now, I'm not so 
sure on that.  When I was growing up there were few gay couples who had "come 
out" and we thought if the girl had a different last name than her mommy we 
thought that was odd.  Quite a bit different now but it could still screw with 
a kids head in terms of "traditional marriage".

It would be hard to NOT state that traditional marriage has gone to 
hell in this country.  But then again, so many "traditional" things have gone 
to hell.  How many women stay at home and take care of the family while dad 
goes to work?

I am in favor of defunding planned parenthood.  The videos pretty much 
got to me.  It's MY TAX DOLLARS.  Defund it.  There are plenty of other 
non-government-funded entities who can do that work.

Any tax is bad :)

I'm going to stop there, i will get in trouble... lol

  - Original Message - 
  From: Josh Reynolds 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:02 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

  His stances:
  Gay marriage is wrong
  He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple
  Defund planned parenthood
  Raising corporate tax is bad
  Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles.
  Wants to drill in ANWR
  Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy.
  Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees.
  Votes for PATRIOT act over and over
  Voted to allow warantless electronic surveillance against us citizens
  Denied additional funding that would provide expanded child healthcare
  "Let's build a fence!"
  Voted NO on reporting / deporting illegal immigrants who received 
hospital treatment

  Etc. A few things I like him on, but mostly he's a "nope" for me.

  On Mar 13, 2016 4:46 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:

Hey, I said I liked him.  Just not full on man crush.

I didn’t see how his math added up for the budgets he proposed.  
There were some missing pages where magic happened to balance the budget.  
Seemed like the same old voodoo economics.

So “man crush”, is that like Trump and Putin?  At least Putin is 
supposedly an 8th degree black belt.  He would probably take care of the 
protester himself.  If Trump thinks he can bully the Putins of the world, I’m 
not so sure.  I think McCain could take him in a fair fight.  Hell, Bernie 
could probably take him.  I was never fond of Nixon, but the photo of the 
“kitchen debate” with Khrushchev is a treasure.

http://spectator.org/articles/41740/how-handle-bully-nixon-vs-khrushchev

From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

I have actually followed Paul Ryan since the first time he appeared 
on the national stage.  Very impressed with him.  Could almost call him my "man 
crush".   I'd be interested in hearing what you do not like about him Ken.

Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the minute.....Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters, says he may pay legal fees - LA Times

2016-03-13 Thread Adam Moffett

Well, when war wasn't on TV it was easier for the populace to ignore how 
horrific it is.  Now we try to pretend that we can fight a war without 
having the horrible parts.  Really, the horrible stuff still happens, 
but our people do it when they can get away with it, and the other guys 
don't care.


Rather, I think everyone (both decision makers and the general public) 
should learn to accept that when you go to war you are inflicting death 
and horror on people from both sides.  You'll have dead and injured 
people, you'll have dead, injured, starving, and homeless civilians.  
You'll have people go crazy.  You'll lose good will.  You'll have 
destruction.  You'll have your blood and wealth tied up in it until it's 
over.  It won't be over until it's over. When it's over, we might have 
stirred up some new conflict inadvertently.  If we aren't willing to 
live with those consequences then we shouldn't do it.  If we ARE willing 
to do it, then don't fool around; go destroy the enemy as thoroughly as 
possible.


Remember when we used to declare wars?  I don't. I think that went out 
of style before most of us were born.  It's hard to get congress to get 
behind a war, so we call it an operation or intervention or engagement.  
Just a little operation overseas, we'll have our people back in 18 
months no problem guys I swear.




On 3/13/2016 7:27 PM, Cameron Crum wrote:
In WWII and prior we weren't so concerned about "image" and collateral 
damage and what the politicians thought. We wiped out the will to 
fight by shear destruction. If you aren't willing to break your enemy, 
don't go fight. There is no making friends with those who would rather 
see your head and body detached.


On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 6:13 PM, Lewis Bergman 
<lewis.berg...@gmail.com <mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote:


No kidding. You would have thought after Vietnam we would have
picked up a book on Afghanistan.


On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 6:03 PM Jaime Solorza
<losguyswirel...@gmail.com <mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Only you and few others on list are old enough to remember
that stuff in Iraq with the Shah.  You are correct we should
have left the Brits all that mess especially Afghanistan
they don't teach this in high schools... maybe at good colleges...

On Mar 13, 2016 4:48 PM, "Lewis Bergman"
<lewis.berg...@gmail.com <mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Actually, I think we screwed up the middle East when we
drew those lines after WWI. Obama isn't the first to miss
an opportunity. I was always against going into Iraq when
we did. We should have gone in when he was gassing his own
people, if ever.

On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 4:57 PM Chuck McCown
<ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

I don’t think the guy ever got the ring back.
One thing that really bugs me about Obama is that he
had a really good chance to support the Syrian rebels
at the start of that mess (along with the whole region
Arab Spring movement) and he didn’t.  Will never
understand that.  He clearly isn’t against bombing. 
Now Syria is in a similar mess as Iraq.

After WWII it seems we intervene and it regularly goes
to crap.  We don’t and it goes to crap.  There must be
a lesson in there somewhere.
I guess Panama and Grenada are positive outcomes. 
Where else?

*From:* Lewis Bergman <mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 3:47 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by
the minute.Trump takes a step toward supporting
violence by supporters, says he may pay legal fees -
LA Times

Now that isn't funny at all. That really is crazy. I
saw him on, I think, face the nation this morning. He
was non committal on condemning that old white guy
hitting that protestor who was being led out. Trump
said he should not have been flipping the bird, that
is not justification. Yikes, he reminds me of portion
more than anyone.


Remember when Putin stole that guys super bowl ring?
Did he ever give that back?

On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 4:14 PM Jaime Solorza
<losguyswirel...@gmail.com
<mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:


http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-trump-campaign-protests-20160313-story.html

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

I hope that's a bad joke.

On Sunday, March 13, 2016, CBB - Jay Fuller 
wrote:

>
> Actually, my belief is here in the deep south we have a church on every
> corner.  Let the churches handle itthey are more than capable.
>
> My tax dollars aren't needed for this. (or many other things)
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Ken Hohhof 
> *To:* af@afmug.com 
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:18 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>
> What many people who lose sleep over Planned Parenthood are actually upset
> about is they offer birth control.  Some people obsess about poor people
> having sex without the punishment of getting pregnant.  See this if you
> forgot:
>
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_Limbaugh%E2%80%93Sandra_Fluke_controversy
>
> I don’t understand how you can be extremely anti-abortion yet also
> extremely anti-contraception.  Less unwanted pregnancies = less abortions.
> Which is the lesser evil?
>
> I think it comes down to some people are obsessed with sex, especially
> “other” people having sex.  #nosyneighbors #getalife
>
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds
> 
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:48 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>
>
> Did you research that video? You should. It's not what you think.
> On Mar 13, 2016 5:41 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  > wrote:
>
>>
>> Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here.
>>
>> I don't care about gay marriage.  I'm not gay, I know a handful of gay
>> people.  Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right
>> telling them what they can or can't do.
>>
>> Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt.   Now, I'm not so
>> sure on that.  When I was growing up there were few gay couples who had
>> "come out" and we thought if the girl had a different last name than her
>> mommy we thought that was odd.  Quite a bit different now but it could
>> still screw with a kids head in terms of "traditional marriage".
>>
>> It would be hard to NOT state that traditional marriage has gone to hell
>> in this country.  But then again, so many "traditional" things have gone to
>> hell.  How many women stay at home and take care of the family while dad
>> goes to work?
>>
>> I am in favor of defunding planned parenthood.  The videos pretty much
>> got to me.  It's MY TAX DOLLARS.  Defund it.  There are plenty of other
>> non-government-funded entities who can do that work.
>>
>> Any tax is bad :)
>>
>> I'm going to stop there, i will get in trouble... lol
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Josh Reynolds
>> 
>> *To:* af@afmug.com 
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:02 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>
>> His stances:
>> Gay marriage is wrong
>> He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple
>> Defund planned parenthood
>> Raising corporate tax is bad
>> Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles.
>> Wants to drill in ANWR
>> Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy.
>> Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees.
>> Votes for PATRIOT act over and over
>> Voted to allow warantless electronic surveillance against us citizens
>> Denied additional funding that would provide expanded child healthcare
>> "Let's build a fence!"
>> Voted NO on reporting / deporting illegal immigrants who received
>> hospital treatment
>>
>> Etc. A few things I like him on, but mostly he's a "nope" for me.
>> On Mar 13, 2016 4:46 PM, "Ken Hohhof" > > wrote:
>>
>>> Hey, I said I liked him.  Just not full on man crush.
>>>
>>> I didn’t see how his math added up for the budgets he proposed.  There
>>> were some missing pages where magic happened to balance the budget.  Seemed
>>> like the same old voodoo economics.
>>>
>>> So “man crush”, is that like Trump and Putin?  At least Putin is
>>> supposedly an 8th degree black belt.  He would probably take care of the
>>> protester himself.  If Trump thinks he can bully the Putins of the world,
>>> I’m not so sure.  I think McCain could take him in a fair fight.  Hell,
>>> Bernie could probably take him.  I was never fond of Nixon, but the photo
>>> of the “kitchen debate” with Khrushchev is a treasure.
>>> http://spectator.org/articles/41740/how-handle-bully-nixon-vs-khrushchev
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller
>>> 
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:19 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com 
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>>
>>>
>>> I have actually followed Paul Ryan since

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

Actually, my belief is here in the deep south we have a church on every corner. 
 Let the churches handle itthey are more than capable.

My tax dollars aren't needed for this. (or many other things)

  - Original Message - 
  From: Ken Hohhof 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:18 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

  What many people who lose sleep over Planned Parenthood are actually upset 
about is they offer birth control.  Some people obsess about poor people having 
sex without the punishment of getting pregnant.  See this if you forgot:

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_Limbaugh%E2%80%93Sandra_Fluke_controversy

  I don’t understand how you can be extremely anti-abortion yet also extremely 
anti-contraception.  Less unwanted pregnancies = less abortions.  Which is the 
lesser evil?

  I think it comes down to some people are obsessed with sex, especially 
“other” people having sex.  #nosyneighbors #getalife

  From: Josh Reynolds 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:48 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

  Did you research that video? You should. It's not what you think.

  On Mar 13, 2016 5:41 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  wrote:

Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here.

I don't care about gay marriage.  I'm not gay, I know a handful of gay 
people.  Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right telling 
them what they can or can't do.

Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt.   Now, I'm not so 
sure on that.  When I was growing up there were few gay couples who had "come 
out" and we thought if the girl had a different last name than her mommy we 
thought that was odd.  Quite a bit different now but it could still screw with 
a kids head in terms of "traditional marriage".

It would be hard to NOT state that traditional marriage has gone to hell in 
this country.  But then again, so many "traditional" things have gone to hell.  
How many women stay at home and take care of the family while dad goes to work?

I am in favor of defunding planned parenthood.  The videos pretty much got 
to me.  It's MY TAX DOLLARS.  Defund it.  There are plenty of other 
non-government-funded entities who can do that work.

Any tax is bad :)

I'm going to stop there, i will get in trouble... lol

  - Original Message - 
  From: Josh Reynolds 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:02 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

  His stances:
  Gay marriage is wrong
  He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple
  Defund planned parenthood
  Raising corporate tax is bad
  Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles.
  Wants to drill in ANWR
  Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy.
  Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees.
  Votes for PATRIOT act over and over
  Voted to allow warantless electronic surveillance against us citizens
  Denied additional funding that would provide expanded child healthcare
  "Let's build a fence!"
  Voted NO on reporting / deporting illegal immigrants who received 
hospital treatment

  Etc. A few things I like him on, but mostly he's a "nope" for me.

  On Mar 13, 2016 4:46 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:

Hey, I said I liked him.  Just not full on man crush.

I didn’t see how his math added up for the budgets he proposed.  There 
were some missing pages where magic happened to balance the budget.  Seemed 
like the same old voodoo economics.

So “man crush”, is that like Trump and Putin?  At least Putin is 
supposedly an 8th degree black belt.  He would probably take care of the 
protester himself.  If Trump thinks he can bully the Putins of the world, I’m 
not so sure.  I think McCain could take him in a fair fight.  Hell, Bernie 
could probably take him.  I was never fond of Nixon, but the photo of the 
“kitchen debate” with Khrushchev is a treasure.
http://spectator.org/articles/41740/how-handle-bully-nixon-vs-khrushchev

From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

I have actually followed Paul Ryan since the first time he appeared on 
the national stage.  Very impressed with him.  Could almost call him my "man 
crush".   I'd be interested in hearing what you do not like about him Ken.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Ken Hohhof 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 2:04 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump's Supporters Love Him Even More 
AfterChicago Violence

  I think the "establishment" is missing why people are fed up with 
them, I'm 
  not convinced it's about left or right.  If I had to single out one 
person 
  as the poster boy for why the establishment has failed us, it

Re: [AFMUG] "Attack on trump" video

I will :)

  - Original Message - 
  From: Lewis Bergman 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:16 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "Attack on trump" video

  Keeping taking the red pill Jay.

  On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 4:11 PM CBB - Jay Fuller  
wrote:

Lets not forget that aside from driving on public roads and paying a little 
sales tax here and there, the government has next to no direct control over my 
lifeever.  April is a little different, but I try to look past that...

That may be what keeps me sane.  I control my life.  Not the gov'mt.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Josh Reynolds 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 12:42 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "Attack on trump" video

  There's a lot of things more important in life than economic prosperity. 
That said, those concepts and beliefs do not necessarily exclude economic 
prosperity either.

  After reviewing his ideas and going through a dozen or so of those 
political quizes, he ends up at the bottom for me most of the time. The only 
person who was lower in some of mine was iCarly (months back).

  On Mar 13, 2016 12:12 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:

Seriously Jaime, craven lackeys?  I guess I’ve been called worse.  Are 
you even curious why both the Republican establishment and George Soros are 
both out to get him?  And don’t you want to find out what would happen if we 
put a real businessman in the White House instead of some stooge? As 
businessmen yourselves, I thought you would respect that.  Instead, you are 
more interested in your ideology than your economic welfare.

There are those of us who simply want someone in power for once who 
isn’t owned by the establishment.  If that’s Trump, so be it.  I’d take 
Triumph, the Insult Comic dog over anything the Democrats have and clearly over 
Cruz or Rubio who have both tried to sell us out.  We are $19T in debt and it’s 
getting worse.  Other countries are bleeding us dry.   Hope and Change was a 
disaster and the corruption and immigration is worse, not better.  We are on 
the cusp of possibly electing the most evil liar ever, Hillary Clinton, and you 
think Trump would be worse without having any idea how he would govern.  

Wow.

Rory 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 9:36 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "Attack on trump" video

If someone really wants to get him no secret service is going to 
prevent it...and it doesn't have to a gun.   I don't want someone to kill him.  
Thats not what are about..  how ugly that someone in crowd yells kill him about 
protester.Trumps followers are craven lackeys (old cold war term- blind 
followers in simple language ).   Sounded like a gladiator event.   Sad  

On Mar 13, 2016 10:13 AM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:

I had never watched this before, but I came across it today.

https://video.twimg.com//ext_tw_video//708728294708015104//pu//vid//640x360//yHRkyZIQTjmheSW4.mp4

"Kill him!"

"Kick his ass Donald!"... hah, I did laugh at the yelling

The very first thing I noticed was the super weird reactions by the
Secret Service. Pay attention to how long it takes for somebody to
actually stand in *front* of him, and then *behind* him. I know a bit
about VIP protection. Not a lot mind you, but a bit. They don't seem
the least bit worried that this was a simple misdirection to pull the
Secret Service's attention away from the real plan. Then they open his
circle of protection back up *very* quickly...

Maybe I'm overanalyzing the video, and maybe I'm thinking too highly
of the capabilities and training of the Secret Service... but this all
just looks like amateur hour to me.

Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the minute.....Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters, says he may pay legal fees - LA Times

Well we did drop the bomb twicevery different times...
On Mar 13, 2016 5:27 PM, "Cameron Crum" <cc...@wispmon.com> wrote:

> In WWII and prior we weren't so concerned about "image" and collateral
> damage and what the politicians thought. We wiped out the will to fight by
> shear destruction. If you aren't willing to break your enemy, don't go
> fight. There is no making friends with those who would rather see your head
> and body detached.
>
> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 6:13 PM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> No kidding. You would have thought after Vietnam we would have picked up
>> a book on Afghanistan.
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 6:03 PM Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Only you and few others on list are old enough to remember that stuff in
>>> Iraq with the Shah.  You are correct we should have left the Brits all that
>>> mess especially Afghanistan they don't teach this in high schools...
>>> maybe at good colleges...
>>> On Mar 13, 2016 4:48 PM, "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Actually, I think we screwed up the middle East when we drew those
>>>> lines after WWI. Obama isn't the first to miss an opportunity. I was always
>>>> against going into Iraq when we did. We should have gone in when he was
>>>> gassing his own people, if ever.
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 4:57 PM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I don’t think the guy ever got the ring back.
>>>>>
>>>>> One thing that really bugs me about Obama is that he had a really good
>>>>> chance to support the Syrian rebels at the start of that mess (along with
>>>>> the whole region Arab Spring movement) and he didn’t.  Will never
>>>>> understand that.  He clearly isn’t against bombing.  Now Syria is in a
>>>>> similar mess as Iraq.
>>>>>
>>>>> After WWII it seems we intervene and it regularly goes to crap.  We
>>>>> don’t and it goes to crap.  There must be a lesson in there somewhere.
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess Panama and Grenada are positive outcomes.  Where else?
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 3:47 PM
>>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the
>>>>> minute.Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters,
>>>>> says he may pay legal fees - LA Times
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Now that isn't funny at all. That really is crazy. I saw him on, I
>>>>> think, face the nation this morning. He was non committal on condemning
>>>>> that old white guy hitting that protestor who was being led out. Trump 
>>>>> said
>>>>> he should not have been flipping the bird, that is not justification.
>>>>> Yikes, he reminds me of portion more than anyone.
>>>>>
>>>>> Remember when Putin stole that guys super bowl ring? Did he ever give
>>>>> that back?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 4:14 PM Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-trump-campaign-protests-20160313-story.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

Ilk take your facts as accurate and withdraw Ali of my opposition leads 3%.

On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 6:31 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> > I would agree since most of their budget goes to abortion. Abortion is
> the law of the land period, that doesn't mean I want to pay for it.
>
> This is not really a hot button of mine, but I don’t think the facts
> support that statement.
>
> Looking it up, 3% of Planned Parenthood services are abortion.  That is 3%
> of services, not 3% of budget, but it’s pretty clear the statement “most of
> their budget goes to abortion” is not even close to correct.
>
> Hyde Amendment prohibits federal funding of abortion, so supposedly you
> are not paying for it.
>
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman 
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:07 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 5:02 PM Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>
>> His stances:
>> Gay marriage is wrong
>>
> I agree, but I think it should be allowed since it is a function of
> government and I don't want government making choices concerning religion.
>
>> He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple
>>
> Neither do I. Another religious based issue. But I have no issue with it
> if done by government since I don't want them making decisions based on
> religious reasons.
>
>> Defund planned parenthood
>>
> I would agree since most of their budget goes to abortion. Abortion is the
> law of the land period, that doesn't mean I want to pay for it.
>
>> Raising corporate tax is bad
>>
> The US has one of the highest corporate tax rates. Besides, don't you know
> that corporations really don't pay taxes. It may make you feel better to
> tax them, but alon costs are passed on to consumers.
>
>> Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles.
>>
> And your solution to the the issue of juvenile crime is what? I don't have
> an answer but this is a pretty common one.
>
>> Wants to drill in ANWR
>>
> Yea
>
>> Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy.
>>
> Wind farms are a scam. Nuclear is a much more efficient solution.
>
>> Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees.
>>
> Finally, someone says no to the codeled federal employees who already get
> to much for to little work.
>
>> Votes for PATRIOT act over and over
>>
> No arguement with your issue there.
>
>> Voted to allow warantless electronic surveillance against us citizens
>>
> If we are talking about meets data in phone calls I agree with it. Very
> helpful after an event to find out to whom one has been talking.
>
>> Denied additional funding that would provide expanded child healthcare
>>
> With what else attached?
>
>> "Let's build a fence!"
>>
> Let's build something
>
>> Voted NO on reporting / deporting illegal immigrants who received
>> hospital treatment
>>
> Huh... Interesting
>
>> Etc. A few things I like him on, but mostly he's a "nope" for me.
>>
>
> Much of what you have an issues with are religious issues. Or at least
> they are for me. We can disagree, but like most, I am unlikely to change my
> deeply held religious beliefs.
>
>> On Mar 13, 2016 4:46 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:
>>
>
>> Hey, I said I liked him.  Just not full on man crush.
>>>
>>> I didn’t see how his math added up for the budgets he proposed.  There
>>> were some missing pages where magic happened to balance the budget.  Seemed
>>> like the same old voodoo economics.
>>>
>>> So “man crush”, is that like Trump and Putin?  At least Putin is
>>> supposedly an 8th degree black belt.  He would probably take care of the
>>> protester himself.  If Trump thinks he can bully the Putins of the world,
>>> I’m not so sure.  I think McCain could take him in a fair fight.  Hell,
>>> Bernie could probably take him.  I was never fond of Nixon, but the photo
>>> of the “kitchen debate” with Khrushchev is a treasure.
>>> http://spectator.org/articles/41740/how-handle-bully-nixon-vs-khrushchev
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller 
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:19 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>>
>>>
>>> I have actually followed Paul Ryan since the first time he appeared on
>>> the national stage.  Very impressed with him.  Could almost call him my
>>> "man crush".   I'd be interested in hearing what you do not like about him
>>> Ken.
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> *From:* Ken Hohhof 
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 2:04 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump's Supporters Love Him Even More
>>> AfterChicago Violence
>>>
>>> I think the "establishment" is missing why people are fed up with them,
>>> I'm
>>> not convinced it's about left or right.  If I had to single out one
>>> person
>>> as the poster boy for why the establishment has failed us, it would be
>>> Mitch
>>> McConnell.  All 4 leaders in Congress have only been worried about their
>>> own

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Daylight savings

2016-03-13 Thread Mathew Howard

Daylight saving time is an abomination and it needs to stop. I'm convinced
it's only purpose is to torture people.

On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 6:26 PM, Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> I couldn't agree more.
>
> On Sunday, March 13, 2016, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> I just wish they'd set it on daylight savings time and be done with it.
>> On Mar 13, 2016 3:59 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:
>>
>>> I changed my 6 year old's watch to the new time a few minutes ago. He's
>>> really upset that bedtime rolled up on him an hour sooner than he
>>> expectedpoor bastard.
>>>
>>> This event reminded me that while I've read all the justifications for
>>> changing the time twice a year, I find them all to be stupid.
>>> There's no way it saves any significant amount of energy.
>>> Farmers can't possibly care what the hour on the clock says: whether the
>>> clock says 5 or 6 it's still "milk-the-cows-o'clock".
>>> Even if it saved any coal consumption during WWII, that's irrelevant
>>> today.
>>> Some people might prefer to have an extra hour of light in the
>>> evening.get up an hour earlier?
>>>
>>> Maybe I'll vote for Trump if he promises he can get rid of daylight
>>> savings.
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Anti-immigration - Puck 1893

I agree with that. Kind of like the drug problem. As long as you don't
penalize the user you get increasing demand. If you don't punish the
employer you get increasing demand.

On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 2:56 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Far less than many believe you need documentation which of course can
> be faked...but percentage wise more welfare in southern states.  Most
> undocumented workers fend for themselves holding two or three shit jobs no
> one wants.   See who is working on highways late at night or in hot sun in
> Texas...a white foreman and ton of Hispanics I have travelled just
> about every rode in Texas go to Chile harvests in Hatch,NM.  Like I
> said..no demand,  no supply simple Adam Smith theory in action.
> On Mar 13, 2016 1:06 PM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:
>
>> Immigration should have been unfettered in 1893 because there was no
>> welfare state in existence then. The combination of unrestricted
>> immigration and a comprehensive welfare system has the potential to
>> bankrupt the U.S. I have no idea if immigrants make up a larger part of the
>> welfare system than any other, just that the potential is there.
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 11:35 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

> I would agree since most of their budget goes to abortion. Abortion is the 
> law of the land period, that doesn't mean I want to pay for it.

This is not really a hot button of mine, but I don’t think the facts support 
that statement.

Looking it up, 3% of Planned Parenthood services are abortion.  That is 3% of 
services, not 3% of budget, but it’s pretty clear the statement “most of their 
budget goes to abortion” is not even close to correct.

Hyde Amendment prohibits federal funding of abortion, so supposedly you are not 
paying for it.

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 5:02 PM Josh Reynolds  wrote:

  His stances:
  Gay marriage is wrong

I agree, but I think it should be allowed since it is a function of government 
and I don't want government making choices concerning religion.
  He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple

Neither do I. Another religious based issue. But I have no issue with it if 
done by government since I don't want them making decisions based on religious 
reasons.
  Defund planned parenthood

I would agree since most of their budget goes to abortion. Abortion is the law 
of the land period, that doesn't mean I want to pay for it.
  Raising corporate tax is bad

The US has one of the highest corporate tax rates. Besides, don't you know that 
corporations really don't pay taxes. It may make you feel better to tax them, 
but alon costs are passed on to consumers.
  Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles.

And your solution to the the issue of juvenile crime is what? I don't have an 
answer but this is a pretty common one.
  Wants to drill in ANWR

Yea
  Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy.

Wind farms are a scam. Nuclear is a much more efficient solution.
  Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees.

Finally, someone says no to the codeled federal employees who already get to 
much for to little work.
  Votes for PATRIOT act over and over

No arguement with your issue there.
  Voted to allow warantless electronic surveillance against us citizens

If we are talking about meets data in phone calls I agree with it. Very helpful 
after an event to find out to whom one has been talking.
  Denied additional funding that would provide expanded child healthcare

With what else attached?
  "Let's build a fence!"

Let's build something
  Voted NO on reporting / deporting illegal immigrants who received hospital 
treatment

Huh... Interesting
  Etc. A few things I like him on, but mostly he's a "nope" for me.

Much of what you have an issues with are religious issues. Or at least they are 
for me. We can disagree, but like most, I am unlikely to change my deeply held 
religious beliefs.
  On Mar 13, 2016 4:46 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:

Hey, I said I liked him.  Just not full on man crush.

I didn’t see how his math added up for the budgets he proposed.  There were 
some missing pages where magic happened to balance the budget.  Seemed like the 
same old voodoo economics.

So “man crush”, is that like Trump and Putin?  At least Putin is supposedly 
an 8th degree black belt.  He would probably take care of the protester 
himself.  If Trump thinks he can bully the Putins of the world, I’m not so 
sure.  I think McCain could take him in a fair fight.  Hell, Bernie could 
probably take him.  I was never fond of Nixon, but the photo of the “kitchen 
debate” with Khrushchev is a treasure.
http://spectator.org/articles/41740/how-handle-bully-nixon-vs-khrushchev

From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

I have actually followed Paul Ryan since the first time he appeared on the 
national stage.  Very impressed with him.  Could almost call him my "man 
crush".   I'd be interested in hearing what you do not like about him Ken.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Ken Hohhof 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 2:04 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump's Supporters Love Him Even More 
AfterChicago Violence

  I think the "establishment" is missing why people are fed up with them, 
I'm 
  not convinced it's about left or right.  If I had to single out one 
person 
  as the poster boy for why the establishment has failed us, it would be 
Mitch 
  McConnell.  All 4 leaders in Congress have only been worried about their 
own 
  power and re-election, but McConnell is the worst of a bad bunch.

  I don't agree with Paul Ryan's economics or some of his politics, but I 
like 
  what he has said since being elected Speaker.  I would like to see if 
they 
  are just words, or if he would translate them into actions.  I don't 
think 
  we will get to find out, election politics seem to have rendered him 
  irrelevant.  And

Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the minute.....Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters, says he may pay legal fees - LA Times

2016-03-13 Thread Cameron Crum

In WWII and prior we weren't so concerned about "image" and collateral
damage and what the politicians thought. We wiped out the will to fight by
shear destruction. If you aren't willing to break your enemy, don't go
fight. There is no making friends with those who would rather see your head
and body detached.

On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 6:13 PM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> No kidding. You would have thought after Vietnam we would have picked up a
> book on Afghanistan.
>
> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 6:03 PM Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Only you and few others on list are old enough to remember that stuff in
>> Iraq with the Shah.  You are correct we should have left the Brits all that
>> mess especially Afghanistan they don't teach this in high schools...
>> maybe at good colleges...
>> On Mar 13, 2016 4:48 PM, "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Actually, I think we screwed up the middle East when we drew those lines
>>> after WWI. Obama isn't the first to miss an opportunity. I was always
>>> against going into Iraq when we did. We should have gone in when he was
>>> gassing his own people, if ever.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 4:57 PM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I don’t think the guy ever got the ring back.
>>>>
>>>> One thing that really bugs me about Obama is that he had a really good
>>>> chance to support the Syrian rebels at the start of that mess (along with
>>>> the whole region Arab Spring movement) and he didn’t.  Will never
>>>> understand that.  He clearly isn’t against bombing.  Now Syria is in a
>>>> similar mess as Iraq.
>>>>
>>>> After WWII it seems we intervene and it regularly goes to crap.  We
>>>> don’t and it goes to crap.  There must be a lesson in there somewhere.
>>>>
>>>> I guess Panama and Grenada are positive outcomes.  Where else?
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 3:47 PM
>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the
>>>> minute.Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters,
>>>> says he may pay legal fees - LA Times
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Now that isn't funny at all. That really is crazy. I saw him on, I
>>>> think, face the nation this morning. He was non committal on condemning
>>>> that old white guy hitting that protestor who was being led out. Trump said
>>>> he should not have been flipping the bird, that is not justification.
>>>> Yikes, he reminds me of portion more than anyone.
>>>>
>>>> Remember when Putin stole that guys super bowl ring? Did he ever give
>>>> that back?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 4:14 PM Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-trump-campaign-protests-20160313-story.html
>>>>>
>>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

Actually only 3% of their budget goes to abortion.

On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 5:07 PM, Lewis Bergman 
wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 5:02 PM Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>
>> His stances:
>> Gay marriage is wrong
>>
> I agree, but I think it should be allowed since it is a function of
> government and I don't want government making choices concerning religion.
>
>> He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple
>>
> Neither do I. Another religious based issue. But I have no issue with it
> if done by government since I don't want them making decisions based on
> religious reasons.
>
>> Defund planned parenthood
>>
> I would agree since most of their budget goes to abortion. Abortion is the
> law of the land period, that doesn't mean I want to pay for it.
>
>> Raising corporate tax is bad
>>
> The US has one of the highest corporate tax rates. Besides, don't you know
> that corporations really don't pay taxes. It may make you feel better to
> tax them, but alon costs are passed on to consumers.
>
>> Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles.
>>
> And your solution to the the issue of juvenile crime is what? I don't have
> an answer but this is a pretty common one.
>
>> Wants to drill in ANWR
>>
> Yea
>
>> Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy.
>>
> Wind farms are a scam. Nuclear is a much more efficient solution.
>
>> Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees.
>>
> Finally, someone says no to the codeled federal employees who already get
> to much for to little work.
>
>> Votes for PATRIOT act over and over
>>
> No arguement with your issue there.
>
>> Voted to allow warantless electronic surveillance against us citizens
>>
> If we are talking about meets data in phone calls I agree with it. Very
> helpful after an event to find out to whom one has been talking.
>
>> Denied additional funding that would provide expanded child healthcare
>>
> With what else attached?
>
>> "Let's build a fence!"
>>
> Let's build something
>
>> Voted NO on reporting / deporting illegal immigrants who received
>> hospital treatment
>>
> Huh... Interesting
>
>> Etc. A few things I like him on, but mostly he's a "nope" for me.
>>
>
> Much of what you have an issues with are religious issues. Or at least
> they are for me. We can disagree, but like most, I am unlikely to change my
> deeply held religious beliefs.
>
>> On Mar 13, 2016 4:46 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:
>>
>>> Hey, I said I liked him.  Just not full on man crush.
>>>
>>> I didn’t see how his math added up for the budgets he proposed.  There
>>> were some missing pages where magic happened to balance the budget.  Seemed
>>> like the same old voodoo economics.
>>>
>>> So “man crush”, is that like Trump and Putin?  At least Putin is
>>> supposedly an 8th degree black belt.  He would probably take care of the
>>> protester himself.  If Trump thinks he can bully the Putins of the world,
>>> I’m not so sure.  I think McCain could take him in a fair fight.  Hell,
>>> Bernie could probably take him.  I was never fond of Nixon, but the photo
>>> of the “kitchen debate” with Khrushchev is a treasure.
>>> http://spectator.org/articles/41740/how-handle-bully-nixon-vs-khrushchev
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller 
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:19 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>>
>>>
>>> I have actually followed Paul Ryan since the first time he appeared on
>>> the national stage.  Very impressed with him.  Could almost call him my
>>> "man crush".   I'd be interested in hearing what you do not like about him
>>> Ken.
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> *From:* Ken Hohhof 
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 2:04 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump's Supporters Love Him Even More
>>> AfterChicago Violence
>>>
>>> I think the "establishment" is missing why people are fed up with them,
>>> I'm
>>> not convinced it's about left or right.  If I had to single out one
>>> person
>>> as the poster boy for why the establishment has failed us, it would be
>>> Mitch
>>> McConnell.  All 4 leaders in Congress have only been worried about their
>>> own
>>> power and re-election, but McConnell is the worst of a bad bunch.
>>>
>>> I don't agree with Paul Ryan's economics or some of his politics, but I
>>> like
>>> what he has said since being elected Speaker.  I would like to see if
>>> they
>>> are just words, or if he would translate them into actions.  I don't
>>> think
>>> we will get to find out, election politics seem to have rendered him
>>> irrelevant.  And Mitch the Turtle would have to be replaced with someone
>>> actually interested in governing.  I wonder what conservative goals
>>> could
>>> have been accomplished in the 7 years Mitch has spent trying to make
>>> Obama
>>> fail no matter how much damage it causes.  Tort reform?  Modifications
>>> to
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Daylight savings

I couldn't agree more.

On Sunday, March 13, 2016, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> I just wish they'd set it on daylight savings time and be done with it.
> On Mar 13, 2016 3:59 PM, "Adam Moffett"  > wrote:
>
>> I changed my 6 year old's watch to the new time a few minutes ago. He's
>> really upset that bedtime rolled up on him an hour sooner than he
>> expectedpoor bastard.
>>
>> This event reminded me that while I've read all the justifications for
>> changing the time twice a year, I find them all to be stupid.
>> There's no way it saves any significant amount of energy.
>> Farmers can't possibly care what the hour on the clock says: whether the
>> clock says 5 or 6 it's still "milk-the-cows-o'clock".
>> Even if it saved any coal consumption during WWII, that's irrelevant
>> today.
>> Some people might prefer to have an extra hour of light in the
>> evening.get up an hour earlier?
>>
>> Maybe I'll vote for Trump if he promises he can get rid of daylight
>> savings.
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Daylight savings

http://andywoodruff.com/blog/where-to-hate-daylight-saving-time-and-where-to-love-it/

From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 6:05 PM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Daylight savings

Ha.  Blame it on Ben.. Franklin

On Mar 13, 2016 4:59 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:

  I changed my 6 year old's watch to the new time a few minutes ago. He's 
really upset that bedtime rolled up on him an hour sooner than he 
expectedpoor bastard.

  This event reminded me that while I've read all the justifications for 
changing the time twice a year, I find them all to be stupid.
  There's no way it saves any significant amount of energy.
  Farmers can't possibly care what the hour on the clock says: whether the 
clock says 5 or 6 it's still "milk-the-cows-o'clock".
  Even if it saved any coal consumption during WWII, that's irrelevant today.
  Some people might prefer to have an extra hour of light in the 
evening.get up an hour earlier?

  Maybe I'll vote for Trump if he promises he can get rid of daylight savings.

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

What many people who lose sleep over Planned Parenthood are actually upset 
about is they offer birth control.  Some people obsess about poor people having 
sex without the punishment of getting pregnant.  See this if you forgot:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_Limbaugh%E2%80%93Sandra_Fluke_controversy

I don’t understand how you can be extremely anti-abortion yet also extremely 
anti-contraception.  Less unwanted pregnancies = less abortions.  Which is the 
lesser evil?

I think it comes down to some people are obsessed with sex, especially “other” 
people having sex.  #nosyneighbors #getalife


From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:48 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

Did you research that video? You should. It's not what you think.

On Mar 13, 2016 5:41 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  wrote:


  Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here.

  I don't care about gay marriage.  I'm not gay, I know a handful of gay 
people.  Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right telling 
them what they can or can't do.

  Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt.   Now, I'm not so sure 
on that.  When I was growing up there were few gay couples who had "come out" 
and we thought if the girl had a different last name than her mommy we thought 
that was odd.  Quite a bit different now but it could still screw with a kids 
head in terms of "traditional marriage".

  It would be hard to NOT state that traditional marriage has gone to hell in 
this country.  But then again, so many "traditional" things have gone to hell.  
How many women stay at home and take care of the family while dad goes to work?

  I am in favor of defunding planned parenthood.  The videos pretty much got to 
me.  It's MY TAX DOLLARS.  Defund it.  There are plenty of other 
non-government-funded entities who can do that work.

  Any tax is bad :)

  I'm going to stop there, i will get in trouble... lol




- Original Message - 
From: Josh Reynolds 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan


His stances:
Gay marriage is wrong
He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple
Defund planned parenthood
Raising corporate tax is bad
Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles.
Wants to drill in ANWR
Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy.
Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees.
Votes for PATRIOT act over and over
Voted to allow warantless electronic surveillance against us citizens
Denied additional funding that would provide expanded child healthcare
"Let's build a fence!"
Voted NO on reporting / deporting illegal immigrants who received hospital 
treatment

Etc. A few things I like him on, but mostly he's a "nope" for me.

On Mar 13, 2016 4:46 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:

  Hey, I said I liked him.  Just not full on man crush.

  I didn’t see how his math added up for the budgets he proposed.  There 
were some missing pages where magic happened to balance the budget.  Seemed 
like the same old voodoo economics.

  So “man crush”, is that like Trump and Putin?  At least Putin is 
supposedly an 8th degree black belt.  He would probably take care of the 
protester himself.  If Trump thinks he can bully the Putins of the world, I’m 
not so sure.  I think McCain could take him in a fair fight.  Hell, Bernie 
could probably take him.  I was never fond of Nixon, but the photo of the 
“kitchen debate” with Khrushchev is a treasure.
  http://spectator.org/articles/41740/how-handle-bully-nixon-vs-khrushchev



  From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:19 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan


  I have actually followed Paul Ryan since the first time he appeared on 
the national stage.  Very impressed with him.  Could almost call him my "man 
crush".   I'd be interested in hearing what you do not like about him Ken.

- Original Message - 
From: Ken Hohhof 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump's Supporters Love Him Even More 
AfterChicago Violence

I think the "establishment" is missing why people are fed up with them, 
I'm 
not convinced it's about left or right.  If I had to single out one 
person 
as the poster boy for why the establishment has failed us, it would be 
Mitch 
McConnell.  All 4 leaders in Congress have only been worried about 
their own 
power and re-election, but McConnell is the worst of a bad bunch.

I don't agree with Paul Ryan's economics or some of his politics, but I 
like 
what he has said since being elected Speaker.  I would like to see if 
they 
are just words, or if he would translate them into actions.  I don't 
think 
we will get to

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Daylight savings

2016-03-13 Thread Forrest Christian (List Account)

I just wish they'd set it on daylight savings time and be done with it.
On Mar 13, 2016 3:59 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:

> I changed my 6 year old's watch to the new time a few minutes ago. He's
> really upset that bedtime rolled up on him an hour sooner than he
> expectedpoor bastard.
>
> This event reminded me that while I've read all the justifications for
> changing the time twice a year, I find them all to be stupid.
> There's no way it saves any significant amount of energy.
> Farmers can't possibly care what the hour on the clock says: whether the
> clock says 5 or 6 it's still "milk-the-cows-o'clock".
> Even if it saved any coal consumption during WWII, that's irrelevant today.
> Some people might prefer to have an extra hour of light in the
> evening.get up an hour earlier?
>
> Maybe I'll vote for Trump if he promises he can get rid of daylight
> savings.
>

Re: [AFMUG] "Attack on trump" video

Keeping taking the red pill Jay.

On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 4:11 PM CBB - Jay Fuller 
wrote:

>
> Lets not forget that aside from driving on public roads and paying a
> little sales tax here and there, the government has next to no direct
> control over my lifeever.  April is a little different, but I try to
> look past that...
>
> That may be what keeps me sane.  I control my life.  Not the gov'mt.
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 12:42 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "Attack on trump" video
>
> There's a lot of things more important in life than economic prosperity.
> That said, those concepts and beliefs do not necessarily exclude economic
> prosperity either.
>
> After reviewing his ideas and going through a dozen or so of those
> political quizes, he ends up at the bottom for me most of the time. The
> only person who was lower in some of mine was iCarly (months back).
>
> On Mar 13, 2016 12:12 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:
>
> Seriously Jaime, craven lackeys?  I guess I’ve been called worse.  Are you
>> even curious why both the Republican establishment and George Soros are
>> both out to get him?  And don’t you want to find out what would happen if
>> we put a real businessman in the White House instead of some stooge? As
>> businessmen yourselves, I thought you would respect that.  Instead, you are
>> more interested in your ideology than your economic welfare.
>>
>>
>>
>> There are those of us who simply want someone in power for once who isn’t
>> owned by the establishment.  If that’s Trump, so be it.  I’d take Triumph,
>> the Insult Comic dog over anything the Democrats have and clearly over Cruz
>> or Rubio who have both tried to sell us out.  We are $19T in debt and it’s
>> getting worse.  Other countries are bleeding us dry.   Hope and Change was
>> a disaster and the corruption and immigration is worse, not better.  We are
>> on the cusp of possibly electing the most evil liar ever, Hillary Clinton,
>> and you think Trump would be worse without having any idea how he would
>> govern.
>>
>>
>>
>> Wow.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 9:36 AM
>> *To:* Animal Farm
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "Attack on trump" video
>>
>>
>>
>> If someone really wants to get him no secret service is going to prevent
>> it...and it doesn't have to a gun.   I don't want someone to kill him.
>> Thats not what are about..  how ugly that someone in crowd yells kill him
>> about protester.Trumps followers are craven lackeys (old cold war term-
>> blind followers in simple language ).   Sounded like a gladiator event.
>> Sad
>>
> On Mar 13, 2016 10:13 AM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:
>>
> I had never watched this before, but I came across it today.
>>
>>
>> https://video.twimg.com//ext_tw_video//708728294708015104//pu//vid//640x360//yHRkyZIQTjmheSW4.mp4
>> 
>>
>> "Kill him!"
>>
>> "Kick his ass Donald!"... hah, I did laugh at the yelling
>>
>> The very first thing I noticed was the super weird reactions by the
>> Secret Service. Pay attention to how long it takes for somebody to
>> actually stand in *front* of him, and then *behind* him. I know a bit
>> about VIP protection. Not a lot mind you, but a bit. They don't seem
>> the least bit worried that this was a simple misdirection to pull the
>> Secret Service's attention away from the real plan. Then they open his
>> circle of protection back up *very* quickly...
>>
>> Maybe I'm overanalyzing the video, and maybe I'm thinking too highly
>> of the capabilities and training of the Secret Service... but this all
>> just looks like amateur hour to me.
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the minute.....Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters, says he may pay legal fees - LA Times

No kidding. You would have thought after Vietnam we would have picked up a
book on Afghanistan.

On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 6:03 PM Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Only you and few others on list are old enough to remember that stuff in
> Iraq with the Shah.  You are correct we should have left the Brits all that
> mess especially Afghanistan they don't teach this in high schools...
> maybe at good colleges...
> On Mar 13, 2016 4:48 PM, "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Actually, I think we screwed up the middle East when we drew those lines
>> after WWI. Obama isn't the first to miss an opportunity. I was always
>> against going into Iraq when we did. We should have gone in when he was
>> gassing his own people, if ever.
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 4:57 PM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I don’t think the guy ever got the ring back.
>>>
>>> One thing that really bugs me about Obama is that he had a really good
>>> chance to support the Syrian rebels at the start of that mess (along with
>>> the whole region Arab Spring movement) and he didn’t.  Will never
>>> understand that.  He clearly isn’t against bombing.  Now Syria is in a
>>> similar mess as Iraq.
>>>
>>> After WWII it seems we intervene and it regularly goes to crap.  We
>>> don’t and it goes to crap.  There must be a lesson in there somewhere.
>>>
>>> I guess Panama and Grenada are positive outcomes.  Where else?
>>>
>>> *From:* Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 3:47 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the
>>> minute.Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters,
>>> says he may pay legal fees - LA Times
>>>
>>>
>>> Now that isn't funny at all. That really is crazy. I saw him on, I
>>> think, face the nation this morning. He was non committal on condemning
>>> that old white guy hitting that protestor who was being led out. Trump said
>>> he should not have been flipping the bird, that is not justification.
>>> Yikes, he reminds me of portion more than anyone.
>>> Remember when Putin stole that guys super bowl ring? Did he ever give
>>> that back?
>>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 4:14 PM Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-trump-campaign-protests-20160313-story.html
>>>>
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Daylight savings

2016-03-13 Thread Adam Moffett

The kid has been fretting about this for half an hour now.  He wants me 
to change the time back.  I would if I could, kiddo, but it's the law.  
He says it's a bad law.  Yup, I agree, but I still can't change it.


This is a damn tyranny we live under.  Storm the capitol! Take back bed 
time!



On 3/13/2016 7:05 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:


Ha.  Blame it on Ben.. Franklin

On Mar 13, 2016 4:59 PM, "Adam Moffett" > wrote:


I changed my 6 year old's watch to the new time a few minutes ago.
He's really upset that bedtime rolled up on him an hour sooner
than he expectedpoor bastard.

This event reminded me that while I've read all the justifications
for changing the time twice a year, I find them all to be stupid.
There's no way it saves any significant amount of energy.
Farmers can't possibly care what the hour on the clock says:
whether the clock says 5 or 6 it's still "milk-the-cows-o'clock".
Even if it saved any coal consumption during WWII, that's
irrelevant today.
Some people might prefer to have an extra hour of light in the
evening.get up an hour earlier?

Maybe I'll vote for Trump if he promises he can get rid of
daylight savings.

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan



funny man.  funny funny man.   I'm OK with Paul where he is. :)
Maybe Frank Underwoodoh wait, he's a Dem... lol

I've pretty much put off my House of Cards until April 15.  I don't see
me having much time until then...

  - Original Message - 
  From: Jaime Solorza 
  To: Animal Farm 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:57 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan


  The videos were edited...guys who did it facing charges in Houston. That said 
I am anti abortion.  As a Catholic but more as a caring human being.

  Many gay couples are good parents...and some stay together longer than 
traditional couples we need better parenting.its hard for parents to 
compete with all the electronics that our children can see and hear.  I get 
upset that one of grandsons is allowed to watch Walking Dead crap.  He is 
4when they are here I make sure they don't watch crap like that...even Nick 
has stupid cartoons.   I digress too many people having kids that have no 
idea of what it takes 

  Why dont  you GOPers get Ryan to run?  Oh wait... he said no!Too 
easysorry.. OK how about Mitt?  Oops my bad..

  On Mar 13, 2016 4:41 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  wrote:


Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here.

I don't care about gay marriage.  I'm not gay, I know a handful of gay 
people.  Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right telling 
them what they can or can't do.

Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt.   Now, I'm not so 
sure on that.  When I was growing up there were few gay couples who had "come 
out" and we thought if the girl had a different last name than her mommy we 
thought that was odd.  Quite a bit different now but it could still screw with 
a kids head in terms of "traditional marriage".

It would be hard to NOT state that traditional marriage has gone to hell in 
this country.  But then again, so many "traditional" things have gone to hell.  
How many women stay at home and take care of the family while dad goes to work?

I am in favor of defunding planned parenthood.  The videos pretty much got 
to me.  It's MY TAX DOLLARS.  Defund it.  There are plenty of other 
non-government-funded entities who can do that work.

Any tax is bad :)

I'm going to stop there, i will get in trouble... lol




  - Original Message - 
  From: Josh Reynolds 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:02 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan


  His stances:
  Gay marriage is wrong
  He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple
  Defund planned parenthood
  Raising corporate tax is bad
  Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles.
  Wants to drill in ANWR
  Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy.
  Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees.
  Votes for PATRIOT act over and over
  Voted to allow warantless electronic surveillance against us citizens
  Denied additional funding that would provide expanded child healthcare
  "Let's build a fence!"
  Voted NO on reporting / deporting illegal immigrants who received 
hospital treatment

  Etc. A few things I like him on, but mostly he's a "nope" for me.

  On Mar 13, 2016 4:46 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:

Hey, I said I liked him.  Just not full on man crush.

I didn’t see how his math added up for the budgets he proposed.  There 
were some missing pages where magic happened to balance the budget.  Seemed 
like the same old voodoo economics.

So “man crush”, is that like Trump and Putin?  At least Putin is 
supposedly an 8th degree black belt.  He would probably take care of the 
protester himself.  If Trump thinks he can bully the Putins of the world, I’m 
not so sure.  I think McCain could take him in a fair fight.  Hell, Bernie 
could probably take him.  I was never fond of Nixon, but the photo of the 
“kitchen debate” with Khrushchev is a treasure.
http://spectator.org/articles/41740/how-handle-bully-nixon-vs-khrushchev



From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan


I have actually followed Paul Ryan since the first time he appeared on 
the national stage.  Very impressed with him.  Could almost call him my "man 
crush".   I'd be interested in hearing what you do not like about him Ken.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Ken Hohhof 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 2:04 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump's Supporters Love Him Even More 
AfterChicago Violence

  I think the "establishment" is missing why people are fed up with 
them, I'm 
  not convinced it's about left or right.  If I had to single out one 
person 
  as the poster boy for why the establishment has failed us, it would 
be

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 5:02 PM Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> His stances:
> Gay marriage is wrong
>
I agree, but I think it should be allowed since it is a function of
government and I don't want government making choices concerning religion.

> He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple
>
Neither do I. Another religious based issue. But I have no issue with it if
done by government since I don't want them making decisions based on
religious reasons.

> Defund planned parenthood
>
I would agree since most of their budget goes to abortion. Abortion is the
law of the land period, that doesn't mean I want to pay for it.

> Raising corporate tax is bad
>
The US has one of the highest corporate tax rates. Besides, don't you know
that corporations really don't pay taxes. It may make you feel better to
tax them, but alon costs are passed on to consumers.

> Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles.
>
And your solution to the the issue of juvenile crime is what? I don't have
an answer but this is a pretty common one.

> Wants to drill in ANWR
>
Yea

> Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy.
>
Wind farms are a scam. Nuclear is a much more efficient solution.

> Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees.
>
Finally, someone says no to the codeled federal employees who already get
to much for to little work.

> Votes for PATRIOT act over and over
>
No arguement with your issue there.

> Voted to allow warantless electronic surveillance against us citizens
>
If we are talking about meets data in phone calls I agree with it. Very
helpful after an event to find out to whom one has been talking.

> Denied additional funding that would provide expanded child healthcare
>
With what else attached?

> "Let's build a fence!"
>
Let's build something

> Voted NO on reporting / deporting illegal immigrants who received hospital
> treatment
>
Huh... Interesting

> Etc. A few things I like him on, but mostly he's a "nope" for me.
>

Much of what you have an issues with are religious issues. Or at least they
are for me. We can disagree, but like most, I am unlikely to change my
deeply held religious beliefs.

> On Mar 13, 2016 4:46 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:
>
>> Hey, I said I liked him.  Just not full on man crush.
>>
>> I didn’t see how his math added up for the budgets he proposed.  There
>> were some missing pages where magic happened to balance the budget.  Seemed
>> like the same old voodoo economics.
>>
>> So “man crush”, is that like Trump and Putin?  At least Putin is
>> supposedly an 8th degree black belt.  He would probably take care of the
>> protester himself.  If Trump thinks he can bully the Putins of the world,
>> I’m not so sure.  I think McCain could take him in a fair fight.  Hell,
>> Bernie could probably take him.  I was never fond of Nixon, but the photo
>> of the “kitchen debate” with Khrushchev is a treasure.
>> http://spectator.org/articles/41740/how-handle-bully-nixon-vs-khrushchev
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller 
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:19 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>
>>
>> I have actually followed Paul Ryan since the first time he appeared on
>> the national stage.  Very impressed with him.  Could almost call him my
>> "man crush".   I'd be interested in hearing what you do not like about him
>> Ken.
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Ken Hohhof 
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 2:04 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump's Supporters Love Him Even More
>> AfterChicago Violence
>>
>> I think the "establishment" is missing why people are fed up with them,
>> I'm
>> not convinced it's about left or right.  If I had to single out one
>> person
>> as the poster boy for why the establishment has failed us, it would be
>> Mitch
>> McConnell.  All 4 leaders in Congress have only been worried about their
>> own
>> power and re-election, but McConnell is the worst of a bad bunch.
>>
>> I don't agree with Paul Ryan's economics or some of his politics, but I
>> like
>> what he has said since being elected Speaker.  I would like to see if
>> they
>> are just words, or if he would translate them into actions.  I don't
>> think
>> we will get to find out, election politics seem to have rendered him
>> irrelevant.  And Mitch the Turtle would have to be replaced with someone
>> actually interested in governing.  I wonder what conservative goals could
>> have been accomplished in the 7 years Mitch has spent trying to make
>> Obama
>> fail no matter how much damage it causes.  Tort reform?  Modifications to
>> Obamacare?  Fix sequestration?  Tax reform?  Immigration reform?  Mitch
>> doesn't care.  Mitch cares about Mitch.  That's the problem with the
>> establishment, they spend all their effort on getting elected and staying
>> in
>> power, they don't even pretend to do their job.  And let me be clear, I'm
>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Daylight savings

I texted my ex wife to get grandkids she cares for to put them in bed early
it's going to dark when they get up
On Mar 13, 2016 4:59 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:

> I changed my 6 year old's watch to the new time a few minutes ago. He's
> really upset that bedtime rolled up on him an hour sooner than he
> expectedpoor bastard.
>
> This event reminded me that while I've read all the justifications for
> changing the time twice a year, I find them all to be stupid.
> There's no way it saves any significant amount of energy.
> Farmers can't possibly care what the hour on the clock says: whether the
> clock says 5 or 6 it's still "milk-the-cows-o'clock".
> Even if it saved any coal consumption during WWII, that's irrelevant today.
> Some people might prefer to have an extra hour of light in the
> evening.get up an hour earlier?
>
> Maybe I'll vote for Trump if he promises he can get rid of daylight
> savings.
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Daylight savings

Ha.  Blame it on Ben.. Franklin
On Mar 13, 2016 4:59 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:

> I changed my 6 year old's watch to the new time a few minutes ago. He's
> really upset that bedtime rolled up on him an hour sooner than he
> expectedpoor bastard.
>
> This event reminded me that while I've read all the justifications for
> changing the time twice a year, I find them all to be stupid.
> There's no way it saves any significant amount of energy.
> Farmers can't possibly care what the hour on the clock says: whether the
> clock says 5 or 6 it's still "milk-the-cows-o'clock".
> Even if it saved any coal consumption during WWII, that's irrelevant today.
> Some people might prefer to have an extra hour of light in the
> evening.get up an hour earlier?
>
> Maybe I'll vote for Trump if he promises he can get rid of daylight
> savings.
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the minute.....Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters, says he may pay legal fees - LA Times

Only you and few others on list are old enough to remember that stuff in
Iraq with the Shah.  You are correct we should have left the Brits all that
mess especially Afghanistan they don't teach this in high schools...
maybe at good colleges...
On Mar 13, 2016 4:48 PM, "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Actually, I think we screwed up the middle East when we drew those lines
> after WWI. Obama isn't the first to miss an opportunity. I was always
> against going into Iraq when we did. We should have gone in when he was
> gassing his own people, if ever.
>
> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 4:57 PM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
>> I don’t think the guy ever got the ring back.
>>
>> One thing that really bugs me about Obama is that he had a really good
>> chance to support the Syrian rebels at the start of that mess (along with
>> the whole region Arab Spring movement) and he didn’t.  Will never
>> understand that.  He clearly isn’t against bombing.  Now Syria is in a
>> similar mess as Iraq.
>>
>> After WWII it seems we intervene and it regularly goes to crap.  We don’t
>> and it goes to crap.  There must be a lesson in there somewhere.
>>
>> I guess Panama and Grenada are positive outcomes.  Where else?
>>
>> *From:* Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 3:47 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the
>> minute.Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters,
>> says he may pay legal fees - LA Times
>>
>>
>> Now that isn't funny at all. That really is crazy. I saw him on, I think,
>> face the nation this morning. He was non committal on condemning that old
>> white guy hitting that protestor who was being led out. Trump said he
>> should not have been flipping the bird, that is not justification. Yikes,
>> he reminds me of portion more than anyone.
>> Remember when Putin stole that guys super bowl ring? Did he ever give
>> that back?
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 4:14 PM Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-trump-campaign-protests-20160313-story.html
>>>
>>

[AFMUG] OT: Daylight savings

2016-03-13 Thread Adam Moffett

I changed my 6 year old's watch to the new time a few minutes ago. He's 
really upset that bedtime rolled up on him an hour sooner than he 
expectedpoor bastard.


This event reminded me that while I've read all the justifications for 
changing the time twice a year, I find them all to be stupid.

There's no way it saves any significant amount of energy.
Farmers can't possibly care what the hour on the clock says: whether the 
clock says 5 or 6 it's still "milk-the-cows-o'clock".

Even if it saved any coal consumption during WWII, that's irrelevant today.
Some people might prefer to have an extra hour of light in the 
evening.get up an hour earlier?


Maybe I'll vote for Trump if he promises he can get rid of daylight savings.

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

The videos were edited...guys who did it facing charges in Houston. That
said I am anti abortion.  As a Catholic but more as a caring human being.

Many gay couples are good parents...and some stay together longer than
traditional couples we need better parenting.its hard for parents
to compete with all the electronics that our children can see and hear.  I
get upset that one of grandsons is allowed to watch Walking Dead crap.  He
is 4when they are here I make sure they don't watch crap like
that...even Nick has stupid cartoons.   I digress too many people
having kids that have no idea of what it takes

Why dont  you GOPers get Ryan to run?  Oh wait... he said no!Too
easysorry.. OK how about Mitt?  Oops my bad..
On Mar 13, 2016 4:41 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
wrote:

>
> Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here.
>
> I don't care about gay marriage.  I'm not gay, I know a handful of gay
> people.  Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right
> telling them what they can or can't do.
>
> Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt.   Now, I'm not so
> sure on that.  When I was growing up there were few gay couples who had
> "come out" and we thought if the girl had a different last name than her
> mommy we thought that was odd.  Quite a bit different now but it could
> still screw with a kids head in terms of "traditional marriage".
>
> It would be hard to NOT state that traditional marriage has gone to hell
> in this country.  But then again, so many "traditional" things have gone to
> hell.  How many women stay at home and take care of the family while dad
> goes to work?
>
> I am in favor of defunding planned parenthood.  The videos pretty much got
> to me.  It's MY TAX DOLLARS.  Defund it.  There are plenty of other
> non-government-funded entities who can do that work.
>
> Any tax is bad :)
>
> I'm going to stop there, i will get in trouble... lol
>
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:02 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>
> His stances:
> Gay marriage is wrong
> He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple
> Defund planned parenthood
> Raising corporate tax is bad
> Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles.
> Wants to drill in ANWR
> Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy.
> Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees.
> Votes for PATRIOT act over and over
> Voted to allow warantless electronic surveillance against us citizens
> Denied additional funding that would provide expanded child healthcare
> "Let's build a fence!"
> Voted NO on reporting / deporting illegal immigrants who received hospital
> treatment
>
> Etc. A few things I like him on, but mostly he's a "nope" for me.
> On Mar 13, 2016 4:46 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:
>
>> Hey, I said I liked him.  Just not full on man crush.
>>
>> I didn’t see how his math added up for the budgets he proposed.  There
>> were some missing pages where magic happened to balance the budget.  Seemed
>> like the same old voodoo economics.
>>
>> So “man crush”, is that like Trump and Putin?  At least Putin is
>> supposedly an 8th degree black belt.  He would probably take care of the
>> protester himself.  If Trump thinks he can bully the Putins of the world,
>> I’m not so sure.  I think McCain could take him in a fair fight.  Hell,
>> Bernie could probably take him.  I was never fond of Nixon, but the photo
>> of the “kitchen debate” with Khrushchev is a treasure.
>> http://spectator.org/articles/41740/how-handle-bully-nixon-vs-khrushchev
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller 
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:19 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>
>>
>> I have actually followed Paul Ryan since the first time he appeared on
>> the national stage.  Very impressed with him.  Could almost call him my
>> "man crush".   I'd be interested in hearing what you do not like about him
>> Ken.
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Ken Hohhof 
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 2:04 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump's Supporters Love Him Even More
>> AfterChicago Violence
>>
>> I think the "establishment" is missing why people are fed up with them,
>> I'm
>> not convinced it's about left or right.  If I had to single out one
>> person
>> as the poster boy for why the establishment has failed us, it would be
>> Mitch
>> McConnell.  All 4 leaders in Congress have only been worried about their
>> own
>> power and re-election, but McConnell is the worst of a bad bunch.
>>
>> I don't agree with Paul Ryan's economics or some of his politics, but I
>> like
>> what he has said since being elected Speaker.  I would like to see if
>> they
>> are just words, or if he would translate them into actions.  I don't
>> think
>> we will get to find

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

Exactly.  The people who fabricated the videos have been charged with a
felony.

On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 4:48 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> Did you research that video? You should. It's not what you think.
> On Mar 13, 2016 5:41 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here.
>>
>> I don't care about gay marriage.  I'm not gay, I know a handful of gay
>> people.  Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right
>> telling them what they can or can't do.
>>
>> Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt.   Now, I'm not so
>> sure on that.  When I was growing up there were few gay couples who had
>> "come out" and we thought if the girl had a different last name than her
>> mommy we thought that was odd.  Quite a bit different now but it could
>> still screw with a kids head in terms of "traditional marriage".
>>
>> It would be hard to NOT state that traditional marriage has gone to hell
>> in this country.  But then again, so many "traditional" things have gone to
>> hell.  How many women stay at home and take care of the family while dad
>> goes to work?
>>
>> I am in favor of defunding planned parenthood.  The videos pretty much
>> got to me.  It's MY TAX DOLLARS.  Defund it.  There are plenty of other
>> non-government-funded entities who can do that work.
>>
>> Any tax is bad :)
>>
>> I'm going to stop there, i will get in trouble... lol
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:02 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>
>> His stances:
>> Gay marriage is wrong
>> He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple
>> Defund planned parenthood
>> Raising corporate tax is bad
>> Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles.
>> Wants to drill in ANWR
>> Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy.
>> Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees.
>> Votes for PATRIOT act over and over
>> Voted to allow warantless electronic surveillance against us citizens
>> Denied additional funding that would provide expanded child healthcare
>> "Let's build a fence!"
>> Voted NO on reporting / deporting illegal immigrants who received
>> hospital treatment
>>
>> Etc. A few things I like him on, but mostly he's a "nope" for me.
>> On Mar 13, 2016 4:46 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:
>>
>>> Hey, I said I liked him.  Just not full on man crush.
>>>
>>> I didn’t see how his math added up for the budgets he proposed.  There
>>> were some missing pages where magic happened to balance the budget.  Seemed
>>> like the same old voodoo economics.
>>>
>>> So “man crush”, is that like Trump and Putin?  At least Putin is
>>> supposedly an 8th degree black belt.  He would probably take care of the
>>> protester himself.  If Trump thinks he can bully the Putins of the world,
>>> I’m not so sure.  I think McCain could take him in a fair fight.  Hell,
>>> Bernie could probably take him.  I was never fond of Nixon, but the photo
>>> of the “kitchen debate” with Khrushchev is a treasure.
>>> http://spectator.org/articles/41740/how-handle-bully-nixon-vs-khrushchev
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller 
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:19 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>>
>>>
>>> I have actually followed Paul Ryan since the first time he appeared on
>>> the national stage.  Very impressed with him.  Could almost call him my
>>> "man crush".   I'd be interested in hearing what you do not like about him
>>> Ken.
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> *From:* Ken Hohhof 
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 2:04 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump's Supporters Love Him Even More
>>> AfterChicago Violence
>>>
>>> I think the "establishment" is missing why people are fed up with them,
>>> I'm
>>> not convinced it's about left or right.  If I had to single out one
>>> person
>>> as the poster boy for why the establishment has failed us, it would be
>>> Mitch
>>> McConnell.  All 4 leaders in Congress have only been worried about their
>>> own
>>> power and re-election, but McConnell is the worst of a bad bunch.
>>>
>>> I don't agree with Paul Ryan's economics or some of his politics, but I
>>> like
>>> what he has said since being elected Speaker.  I would like to see if
>>> they
>>> are just words, or if he would translate them into actions.  I don't
>>> think
>>> we will get to find out, election politics seem to have rendered him
>>> irrelevant.  And Mitch the Turtle would have to be replaced with someone
>>> actually interested in governing.  I wonder what conservative goals
>>> could
>>> have been accomplished in the 7 years Mitch has spent trying to make
>>> Obama
>>> fail no matter how much damage it causes.  Tort reform?  Modifications
>>> to
>>> Obamacare?  Fix sequestration?  Tax

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

Did you research that video? You should. It's not what you think.
On Mar 13, 2016 5:41 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
wrote:

>
> Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here.
>
> I don't care about gay marriage.  I'm not gay, I know a handful of gay
> people.  Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right
> telling them what they can or can't do.
>
> Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt.   Now, I'm not so
> sure on that.  When I was growing up there were few gay couples who had
> "come out" and we thought if the girl had a different last name than her
> mommy we thought that was odd.  Quite a bit different now but it could
> still screw with a kids head in terms of "traditional marriage".
>
> It would be hard to NOT state that traditional marriage has gone to hell
> in this country.  But then again, so many "traditional" things have gone to
> hell.  How many women stay at home and take care of the family while dad
> goes to work?
>
> I am in favor of defunding planned parenthood.  The videos pretty much got
> to me.  It's MY TAX DOLLARS.  Defund it.  There are plenty of other
> non-government-funded entities who can do that work.
>
> Any tax is bad :)
>
> I'm going to stop there, i will get in trouble... lol
>
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:02 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>
> His stances:
> Gay marriage is wrong
> He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple
> Defund planned parenthood
> Raising corporate tax is bad
> Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles.
> Wants to drill in ANWR
> Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy.
> Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees.
> Votes for PATRIOT act over and over
> Voted to allow warantless electronic surveillance against us citizens
> Denied additional funding that would provide expanded child healthcare
> "Let's build a fence!"
> Voted NO on reporting / deporting illegal immigrants who received hospital
> treatment
>
> Etc. A few things I like him on, but mostly he's a "nope" for me.
> On Mar 13, 2016 4:46 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:
>
>> Hey, I said I liked him.  Just not full on man crush.
>>
>> I didn’t see how his math added up for the budgets he proposed.  There
>> were some missing pages where magic happened to balance the budget.  Seemed
>> like the same old voodoo economics.
>>
>> So “man crush”, is that like Trump and Putin?  At least Putin is
>> supposedly an 8th degree black belt.  He would probably take care of the
>> protester himself.  If Trump thinks he can bully the Putins of the world,
>> I’m not so sure.  I think McCain could take him in a fair fight.  Hell,
>> Bernie could probably take him.  I was never fond of Nixon, but the photo
>> of the “kitchen debate” with Khrushchev is a treasure.
>> http://spectator.org/articles/41740/how-handle-bully-nixon-vs-khrushchev
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller 
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:19 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>
>>
>> I have actually followed Paul Ryan since the first time he appeared on
>> the national stage.  Very impressed with him.  Could almost call him my
>> "man crush".   I'd be interested in hearing what you do not like about him
>> Ken.
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Ken Hohhof 
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 2:04 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump's Supporters Love Him Even More
>> AfterChicago Violence
>>
>> I think the "establishment" is missing why people are fed up with them,
>> I'm
>> not convinced it's about left or right.  If I had to single out one
>> person
>> as the poster boy for why the establishment has failed us, it would be
>> Mitch
>> McConnell.  All 4 leaders in Congress have only been worried about their
>> own
>> power and re-election, but McConnell is the worst of a bad bunch.
>>
>> I don't agree with Paul Ryan's economics or some of his politics, but I
>> like
>> what he has said since being elected Speaker.  I would like to see if
>> they
>> are just words, or if he would translate them into actions.  I don't
>> think
>> we will get to find out, election politics seem to have rendered him
>> irrelevant.  And Mitch the Turtle would have to be replaced with someone
>> actually interested in governing.  I wonder what conservative goals could
>> have been accomplished in the 7 years Mitch has spent trying to make
>> Obama
>> fail no matter how much damage it causes.  Tort reform?  Modifications to
>> Obamacare?  Fix sequestration?  Tax reform?  Immigration reform?  Mitch
>> doesn't care.  Mitch cares about Mitch.  That's the problem with the
>> establishment, they spend all their effort on getting elected and staying
>> in
>> power, they don't even pretend to do their job.  And let me be clear, I'm
>> not saying

Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the minute.....Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters, says he may pay legal fees - LA Times

Actually, I think we screwed up the middle East when we drew those lines
after WWI. Obama isn't the first to miss an opportunity. I was always
against going into Iraq when we did. We should have gone in when he was
gassing his own people, if ever.

On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 4:57 PM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> I don’t think the guy ever got the ring back.
>
> One thing that really bugs me about Obama is that he had a really good
> chance to support the Syrian rebels at the start of that mess (along with
> the whole region Arab Spring movement) and he didn’t.  Will never
> understand that.  He clearly isn’t against bombing.  Now Syria is in a
> similar mess as Iraq.
>
> After WWII it seems we intervene and it regularly goes to crap.  We don’t
> and it goes to crap.  There must be a lesson in there somewhere.
>
> I guess Panama and Grenada are positive outcomes.  Where else?
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 3:47 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the
> minute.Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters,
> says he may pay legal fees - LA Times
>
>
> Now that isn't funny at all. That really is crazy. I saw him on, I think,
> face the nation this morning. He was non committal on condemning that old
> white guy hitting that protestor who was being led out. Trump said he
> should not have been flipping the bird, that is not justification. Yikes,
> he reminds me of portion more than anyone.
> Remember when Putin stole that guys super bowl ring? Did he ever give that
> back?
>
> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 4:14 PM Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-trump-campaign-protests-20160313-story.html
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan


Yah, i'm kind of like Chuck here.

I don't care about gay marriage.  I'm not gay, I know a handful of gay people.  
Not my cup of tea but the government doesn't have any right telling them what 
they can or can't do.

Same with adoption for a gay couple - shut up gov'mt.   Now, I'm not so sure on 
that.  When I was growing up there were few gay couples who had "come out" and 
we thought if the girl had a different last name than her mommy we thought that 
was odd.  Quite a bit different now but it could still screw with a kids head 
in terms of "traditional marriage".

It would be hard to NOT state that traditional marriage has gone to hell in 
this country.  But then again, so many "traditional" things have gone to hell.  
How many women stay at home and take care of the family while dad goes to work?

I am in favor of defunding planned parenthood.  The videos pretty much got to 
me.  It's MY TAX DOLLARS.  Defund it.  There are plenty of other 
non-government-funded entities who can do that work.

Any tax is bad :)

I'm going to stop there, i will get in trouble... lol




  - Original Message - 
  From: Josh Reynolds 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 5:02 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan


  His stances:
  Gay marriage is wrong
  He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple
  Defund planned parenthood
  Raising corporate tax is bad
  Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles.
  Wants to drill in ANWR
  Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy.
  Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees.
  Votes for PATRIOT act over and over
  Voted to allow warantless electronic surveillance against us citizens
  Denied additional funding that would provide expanded child healthcare
  "Let's build a fence!"
  Voted NO on reporting / deporting illegal immigrants who received hospital 
treatment

  Etc. A few things I like him on, but mostly he's a "nope" for me.

  On Mar 13, 2016 4:46 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:

Hey, I said I liked him.  Just not full on man crush.

I didn’t see how his math added up for the budgets he proposed.  There were 
some missing pages where magic happened to balance the budget.  Seemed like the 
same old voodoo economics.

So “man crush”, is that like Trump and Putin?  At least Putin is supposedly 
an 8th degree black belt.  He would probably take care of the protester 
himself.  If Trump thinks he can bully the Putins of the world, I’m not so 
sure.  I think McCain could take him in a fair fight.  Hell, Bernie could 
probably take him.  I was never fond of Nixon, but the photo of the “kitchen 
debate” with Khrushchev is a treasure.
http://spectator.org/articles/41740/how-handle-bully-nixon-vs-khrushchev



From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan


I have actually followed Paul Ryan since the first time he appeared on the 
national stage.  Very impressed with him.  Could almost call him my "man 
crush".   I'd be interested in hearing what you do not like about him Ken.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Ken Hohhof 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 2:04 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump's Supporters Love Him Even More 
AfterChicago Violence

  I think the "establishment" is missing why people are fed up with them, 
I'm 
  not convinced it's about left or right.  If I had to single out one 
person 
  as the poster boy for why the establishment has failed us, it would be 
Mitch 
  McConnell.  All 4 leaders in Congress have only been worried about their 
own 
  power and re-election, but McConnell is the worst of a bad bunch.

  I don't agree with Paul Ryan's economics or some of his politics, but I 
like 
  what he has said since being elected Speaker.  I would like to see if 
they 
  are just words, or if he would translate them into actions.  I don't 
think 
  we will get to find out, election politics seem to have rendered him 
  irrelevant.  And Mitch the Turtle would have to be replaced with someone 
  actually interested in governing.  I wonder what conservative goals could 
  have been accomplished in the 7 years Mitch has spent trying to make 
Obama 
  fail no matter how much damage it causes.  Tort reform?  Modifications to 
  Obamacare?  Fix sequestration?  Tax reform?  Immigration reform?  Mitch 
  doesn't care.  Mitch cares about Mitch.  That's the problem with the 
  establishment, they spend all their effort on getting elected and staying 
in 
  power, they don't even pretend to do their job.  And let me be clear, I'm 
  not saying Pelosi, Reid and Boehner were much better, it's just McConnell 
is 
  the most blatant hack of the bunch, every time I see him on TV I feel he 
is 
  giving me the finger.

  I am probably fooling myself that Paul Ryan would be

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

It makes you honest Chuck.  Hard quality to find today.  I think Faisal set
it best...we are patriots and want best for our country
On Mar 13, 2016 4:19 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> These are bad things???
>
> I don’t care about Gays one way or the other.  Sick of the subject.  Live
> and let live.
> I don’t support abortion.  I believe it is murdering a baby.  I understand
> others think it is cluster of non sentient cells...
> I don’t want corporate taxes just get passed along to customers.  I don’t
> see this as a solution.
> I don’t support more sentencing and prosecution of anyone.  That does not
> seem to help.
> I would drill the bejesus out of ANWR.
> I love my tax credits on my renewable energy.
> 4 weeks of leave ... meh... I guess if you are a guvmnt worker OK, just
> don’t force me to grant the same thing.
> Patriot act does not bug me. (pun intended)
> I don’t care if you tap my phones, I don’t say anything worth listening.
> Child healthcare and healthcare in general should be single payer
> socialism in my opinion.
> No fence, more worker visa initiatives.
> I wouldn’t report or deport illegals either.
>
> So, what does that make me?
>
> (What is his stance on gun control?)
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:02 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>
>
> His stances:
> Gay marriage is wrong
> He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple
> Defund planned parenthood
> Raising corporate tax is bad
> Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles.
> Wants to drill in ANWR
> Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy.
> Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees.
> Votes for PATRIOT act over and over
> Voted to allow warantless electronic surveillance against us citizens
> Denied additional funding that would provide expanded child healthcare
> "Let's build a fence!"
> Voted NO on reporting / deporting illegal immigrants who received hospital
> treatment
>
> Etc. A few things I like him on, but mostly he's a "nope" for me.
> On Mar 13, 2016 4:46 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:
>
>> Hey, I said I liked him.  Just not full on man crush.
>>
>> I didn’t see how his math added up for the budgets he proposed.  There
>> were some missing pages where magic happened to balance the budget.  Seemed
>> like the same old voodoo economics.
>>
>> So “man crush”, is that like Trump and Putin?  At least Putin is
>> supposedly an 8th degree black belt.  He would probably take care of the
>> protester himself.  If Trump thinks he can bully the Putins of the world,
>> I’m not so sure.  I think McCain could take him in a fair fight.  Hell,
>> Bernie could probably take him.  I was never fond of Nixon, but the photo
>> of the “kitchen debate” with Khrushchev is a treasure.
>> http://spectator.org/articles/41740/how-handle-bully-nixon-vs-khrushchev
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller 
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:19 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>
>>
>> I have actually followed Paul Ryan since the first time he appeared on
>> the national stage.  Very impressed with him.  Could almost call him my
>> "man crush".   I'd be interested in hearing what you do not like about him
>> Ken.
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Ken Hohhof 
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 2:04 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump's Supporters Love Him Even More
>> AfterChicago Violence
>>
>> I think the "establishment" is missing why people are fed up with them,
>> I'm
>> not convinced it's about left or right.  If I had to single out one
>> person
>> as the poster boy for why the establishment has failed us, it would be
>> Mitch
>> McConnell.  All 4 leaders in Congress have only been worried about their
>> own
>> power and re-election, but McConnell is the worst of a bad bunch.
>>
>> I don't agree with Paul Ryan's economics or some of his politics, but I
>> like
>> what he has said since being elected Speaker.  I would like to see if
>> they
>> are just words, or if he would translate them into actions.  I don't
>> think
>> we will get to find out, election politics seem to have rendered him
>> irrelevant.  And Mitch the Turtle would have to be replaced with someone
>> actually interested in governing.  I wonder what conservative goals could
>> have been accomplished in the 7 years Mitch has spent trying to make
>> Obama
>> fail no matter how much damage it causes.  Tort reform?  Modifications to
>> Obamacare?  Fix sequestration?  Tax reform?  Immigration reform?  Mitch
>> doesn't care.  Mitch cares about Mitch.  That's the problem with the
>> establishment, they spend all their effort on getting elected and staying
>> in
>> power, they don't even pretend to do their job.  And let me be clear, I'm
>> not saying Pelosi, Reid and Boehner were much better, it's just McConnell
>> is
>> the most

Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the minute.....Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters, says he may pay legal fees - LA Times

As a father and brother of Iraq veterans it is a tough one for me.   I see
the damage they have to live with everyday and I feel anger.  I am proud
they served and did it well.  If we are to put boots on the ground it has
to be completely overwhelming like the Zulus would fight but with other
nations on ground side by side.  Encircle and trap before they can escape
and move in.   Just the thought of our kids getting killed bothers me.
Maybe we should let the Israelis take them out and convert that area into a
parking lot.   These tribes have been fighting each other for
centuries...maybe the Watchers will return and do them in
On Mar 13, 2016 3:57 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> I don’t think the guy ever got the ring back.
>
> One thing that really bugs me about Obama is that he had a really good
> chance to support the Syrian rebels at the start of that mess (along with
> the whole region Arab Spring movement) and he didn’t.  Will never
> understand that.  He clearly isn’t against bombing.  Now Syria is in a
> similar mess as Iraq.
>
> After WWII it seems we intervene and it regularly goes to crap.  We don’t
> and it goes to crap.  There must be a lesson in there somewhere.
>
> I guess Panama and Grenada are positive outcomes.  Where else?
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 3:47 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the
> minute.Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters,
> says he may pay legal fees - LA Times
>
>
> Now that isn't funny at all. That really is crazy. I saw him on, I think,
> face the nation this morning. He was non committal on condemning that old
> white guy hitting that protestor who was being led out. Trump said he
> should not have been flipping the bird, that is not justification. Yikes,
> he reminds me of portion more than anyone.
> Remember when Putin stole that guys super bowl ring? Did he ever give that
> back?
>
> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 4:14 PM Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-trump-campaign-protests-20160313-story.html
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

He bowhunts and cleans his game. Likes guns, generally.
On Mar 13, 2016 5:19 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> These are bad things???
>
> I don’t care about Gays one way or the other.  Sick of the subject.  Live
> and let live.
> I don’t support abortion.  I believe it is murdering a baby.  I understand
> others think it is cluster of non sentient cells...
> I don’t want corporate taxes just get passed along to customers.  I don’t
> see this as a solution.
> I don’t support more sentencing and prosecution of anyone.  That does not
> seem to help.
> I would drill the bejesus out of ANWR.
> I love my tax credits on my renewable energy.
> 4 weeks of leave ... meh... I guess if you are a guvmnt worker OK, just
> don’t force me to grant the same thing.
> Patriot act does not bug me. (pun intended)
> I don’t care if you tap my phones, I don’t say anything worth listening.
> Child healthcare and healthcare in general should be single payer
> socialism in my opinion.
> No fence, more worker visa initiatives.
> I wouldn’t report or deport illegals either.
>
> So, what does that make me?
>
> (What is his stance on gun control?)
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:02 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>
>
> His stances:
> Gay marriage is wrong
> He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple
> Defund planned parenthood
> Raising corporate tax is bad
> Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles.
> Wants to drill in ANWR
> Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy.
> Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees.
> Votes for PATRIOT act over and over
> Voted to allow warantless electronic surveillance against us citizens
> Denied additional funding that would provide expanded child healthcare
> "Let's build a fence!"
> Voted NO on reporting / deporting illegal immigrants who received hospital
> treatment
>
> Etc. A few things I like him on, but mostly he's a "nope" for me.
> On Mar 13, 2016 4:46 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:
>
>> Hey, I said I liked him.  Just not full on man crush.
>>
>> I didn’t see how his math added up for the budgets he proposed.  There
>> were some missing pages where magic happened to balance the budget.  Seemed
>> like the same old voodoo economics.
>>
>> So “man crush”, is that like Trump and Putin?  At least Putin is
>> supposedly an 8th degree black belt.  He would probably take care of the
>> protester himself.  If Trump thinks he can bully the Putins of the world,
>> I’m not so sure.  I think McCain could take him in a fair fight.  Hell,
>> Bernie could probably take him.  I was never fond of Nixon, but the photo
>> of the “kitchen debate” with Khrushchev is a treasure.
>> http://spectator.org/articles/41740/how-handle-bully-nixon-vs-khrushchev
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller 
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:19 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>>
>>
>> I have actually followed Paul Ryan since the first time he appeared on
>> the national stage.  Very impressed with him.  Could almost call him my
>> "man crush".   I'd be interested in hearing what you do not like about him
>> Ken.
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Ken Hohhof 
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 2:04 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump's Supporters Love Him Even More
>> AfterChicago Violence
>>
>> I think the "establishment" is missing why people are fed up with them,
>> I'm
>> not convinced it's about left or right.  If I had to single out one
>> person
>> as the poster boy for why the establishment has failed us, it would be
>> Mitch
>> McConnell.  All 4 leaders in Congress have only been worried about their
>> own
>> power and re-election, but McConnell is the worst of a bad bunch.
>>
>> I don't agree with Paul Ryan's economics or some of his politics, but I
>> like
>> what he has said since being elected Speaker.  I would like to see if
>> they
>> are just words, or if he would translate them into actions.  I don't
>> think
>> we will get to find out, election politics seem to have rendered him
>> irrelevant.  And Mitch the Turtle would have to be replaced with someone
>> actually interested in governing.  I wonder what conservative goals could
>> have been accomplished in the 7 years Mitch has spent trying to make
>> Obama
>> fail no matter how much damage it causes.  Tort reform?  Modifications to
>> Obamacare?  Fix sequestration?  Tax reform?  Immigration reform?  Mitch
>> doesn't care.  Mitch cares about Mitch.  That's the problem with the
>> establishment, they spend all their effort on getting elected and staying
>> in
>> power, they don't even pretend to do their job.  And let me be clear, I'm
>> not saying Pelosi, Reid and Boehner were much better, it's just McConnell
>> is
>> the most blatant hack of the bunch, every time I see him on TV I feel he
>> is
>> giving

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

These are bad things???

I don’t care about Gays one way or the other.  Sick of the subject.  Live and 
let live.  
I don’t support abortion.  I believe it is murdering a baby.  I understand 
others think it is cluster of non sentient cells...
I don’t want corporate taxes just get passed along to customers.  I don’t see 
this as a solution.
I don’t support more sentencing and prosecution of anyone.  That does not seem 
to help.
I would drill the bejesus out of ANWR.
I love my tax credits on my renewable energy.
4 weeks of leave ... meh... I guess if you are a guvmnt worker OK, just don’t 
force me to grant the same thing.
Patriot act does not bug me. (pun intended)
I don’t care if you tap my phones, I don’t say anything worth listening.  
Child healthcare and healthcare in general should be single payer socialism in 
my opinion.  
No fence, more worker visa initiatives.  
I wouldn’t report or deport illegals either.

So, what does that make me?

(What is his stance on gun control?)

From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:02 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

His stances:
Gay marriage is wrong
He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple
Defund planned parenthood
Raising corporate tax is bad
Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles.
Wants to drill in ANWR
Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy.
Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees.
Votes for PATRIOT act over and over
Voted to allow warantless electronic surveillance against us citizens
Denied additional funding that would provide expanded child healthcare
"Let's build a fence!"
Voted NO on reporting / deporting illegal immigrants who received hospital 
treatment

Etc. A few things I like him on, but mostly he's a "nope" for me.

On Mar 13, 2016 4:46 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:

  Hey, I said I liked him.  Just not full on man crush.

  I didn’t see how his math added up for the budgets he proposed.  There were 
some missing pages where magic happened to balance the budget.  Seemed like the 
same old voodoo economics.

  So “man crush”, is that like Trump and Putin?  At least Putin is supposedly 
an 8th degree black belt.  He would probably take care of the protester 
himself.  If Trump thinks he can bully the Putins of the world, I’m not so 
sure.  I think McCain could take him in a fair fight.  Hell, Bernie could 
probably take him.  I was never fond of Nixon, but the photo of the “kitchen 
debate” with Khrushchev is a treasure.
  http://spectator.org/articles/41740/how-handle-bully-nixon-vs-khrushchev



  From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:19 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan


  I have actually followed Paul Ryan since the first time he appeared on the 
national stage.  Very impressed with him.  Could almost call him my "man 
crush".   I'd be interested in hearing what you do not like about him Ken.

- Original Message - 
From: Ken Hohhof 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump's Supporters Love Him Even More 
AfterChicago Violence

I think the "establishment" is missing why people are fed up with them, I'm 
not convinced it's about left or right.  If I had to single out one person 
as the poster boy for why the establishment has failed us, it would be 
Mitch 
McConnell.  All 4 leaders in Congress have only been worried about their 
own 
power and re-election, but McConnell is the worst of a bad bunch.

I don't agree with Paul Ryan's economics or some of his politics, but I 
like 
what he has said since being elected Speaker.  I would like to see if they 
are just words, or if he would translate them into actions.  I don't think 
we will get to find out, election politics seem to have rendered him 
irrelevant.  And Mitch the Turtle would have to be replaced with someone 
actually interested in governing.  I wonder what conservative goals could 
have been accomplished in the 7 years Mitch has spent trying to make Obama 
fail no matter how much damage it causes.  Tort reform?  Modifications to 
Obamacare?  Fix sequestration?  Tax reform?  Immigration reform?  Mitch 
doesn't care.  Mitch cares about Mitch.  That's the problem with the 
establishment, they spend all their effort on getting elected and staying 
in 
power, they don't even pretend to do their job.  And let me be clear, I'm 
not saying Pelosi, Reid and Boehner were much better, it's just McConnell 
is 
the most blatant hack of the bunch, every time I see him on TV I feel he is 
giving me the finger.

I am probably fooling myself that Paul Ryan would be different, but I don't 
think we'll find out.


-Original Message- 
From: Bill Prince
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 1:40 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump's Supporters Love Him Even More After

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

His stances:
Gay marriage is wrong
He doesn't support adoption for a gay couple
Defund planned parenthood
Raising corporate tax is bad
Voted yes for more sentencing and prosecution for juveniles.
Wants to drill in ANWR
Voted no on tax credits for renewable energy.
Voted no on 4 weeks paid parental leave for federal employees.
Votes for PATRIOT act over and over
Voted to allow warantless electronic surveillance against us citizens
Denied additional funding that would provide expanded child healthcare
"Let's build a fence!"
Voted NO on reporting / deporting illegal immigrants who received hospital
treatment

Etc. A few things I like him on, but mostly he's a "nope" for me.
On Mar 13, 2016 4:46 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:

> Hey, I said I liked him.  Just not full on man crush.
>
> I didn’t see how his math added up for the budgets he proposed.  There
> were some missing pages where magic happened to balance the budget.  Seemed
> like the same old voodoo economics.
>
> So “man crush”, is that like Trump and Putin?  At least Putin is
> supposedly an 8th degree black belt.  He would probably take care of the
> protester himself.  If Trump thinks he can bully the Putins of the world,
> I’m not so sure.  I think McCain could take him in a fair fight.  Hell,
> Bernie could probably take him.  I was never fond of Nixon, but the photo
> of the “kitchen debate” with Khrushchev is a treasure.
> http://spectator.org/articles/41740/how-handle-bully-nixon-vs-khrushchev
>
>
>
> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller 
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:19 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Paul Ryan
>
>
> I have actually followed Paul Ryan since the first time he appeared on the
> national stage.  Very impressed with him.  Could almost call him my "man
> crush".   I'd be interested in hearing what you do not like about him Ken.
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Ken Hohhof 
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 2:04 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump's Supporters Love Him Even More
> AfterChicago Violence
>
> I think the "establishment" is missing why people are fed up with them,
> I'm
> not convinced it's about left or right.  If I had to single out one person
> as the poster boy for why the establishment has failed us, it would be
> Mitch
> McConnell.  All 4 leaders in Congress have only been worried about their
> own
> power and re-election, but McConnell is the worst of a bad bunch.
>
> I don't agree with Paul Ryan's economics or some of his politics, but I
> like
> what he has said since being elected Speaker.  I would like to see if they
> are just words, or if he would translate them into actions.  I don't think
> we will get to find out, election politics seem to have rendered him
> irrelevant.  And Mitch the Turtle would have to be replaced with someone
> actually interested in governing.  I wonder what conservative goals could
> have been accomplished in the 7 years Mitch has spent trying to make Obama
> fail no matter how much damage it causes.  Tort reform?  Modifications to
> Obamacare?  Fix sequestration?  Tax reform?  Immigration reform?  Mitch
> doesn't care.  Mitch cares about Mitch.  That's the problem with the
> establishment, they spend all their effort on getting elected and staying
> in
> power, they don't even pretend to do their job.  And let me be clear, I'm
> not saying Pelosi, Reid and Boehner were much better, it's just McConnell
> is
> the most blatant hack of the bunch, every time I see him on TV I feel he
> is
> giving me the finger.
>
> I am probably fooling myself that Paul Ryan would be different, but I
> don't
> think we'll find out.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Bill Prince
> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 1:40 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump's Supporters Love Him Even More After
> Chicago Violence
>
> IMO, Obama moved right, and the Republicans moved further to the right.
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 3/13/2016 6:01 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
> > Obama moved right as much as the Republicans moved left. Everybody's
> idea
> > of compromise these days is you come to where I am and I'll make a deal.
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

I should clarify, I meant McCain could take Trump in a fight, not Putin.  Trump 
seems like a pretty boy with a big mouth and others to do his fighting.  Of 
course, if he’s President, he will have those others to do his fighting.  Now 
whether that’s a good thing or a bad thing ...

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

Hey, I said I liked him.  Just not full on man crush.

I didn’t see how his math added up for the budgets he proposed.  There were 
some missing pages where magic happened to balance the budget.  Seemed like the 
same old voodoo economics.

So “man crush”, is that like Trump and Putin?  At least Putin is supposedly an 
8th degree black belt.  He would probably take care of the protester himself.  
If Trump thinks he can bully the Putins of the world, I’m not so sure.  I think 
McCain could take him in a fair fight.  Hell, Bernie could probably take him.  
I was never fond of Nixon, but the photo of the “kitchen debate” with 
Khrushchev is a treasure.
http://spectator.org/articles/41740/how-handle-bully-nixon-vs-khrushchev

From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

I have actually followed Paul Ryan since the first time he appeared on the 
national stage.  Very impressed with him.  Could almost call him my "man 
crush".   I'd be interested in hearing what you do not like about him Ken.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Ken Hohhof 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 2:04 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump's Supporters Love Him Even More 
AfterChicago Violence

  I think the "establishment" is missing why people are fed up with them, I'm 
  not convinced it's about left or right.  If I had to single out one person 
  as the poster boy for why the establishment has failed us, it would be Mitch 
  McConnell.  All 4 leaders in Congress have only been worried about their own 
  power and re-election, but McConnell is the worst of a bad bunch.

  I don't agree with Paul Ryan's economics or some of his politics, but I like 
  what he has said since being elected Speaker.  I would like to see if they 
  are just words, or if he would translate them into actions.  I don't think 
  we will get to find out, election politics seem to have rendered him 
  irrelevant.  And Mitch the Turtle would have to be replaced with someone 
  actually interested in governing.  I wonder what conservative goals could 
  have been accomplished in the 7 years Mitch has spent trying to make Obama 
  fail no matter how much damage it causes.  Tort reform?  Modifications to 
  Obamacare?  Fix sequestration?  Tax reform?  Immigration reform?  Mitch 
  doesn't care.  Mitch cares about Mitch.  That's the problem with the 
  establishment, they spend all their effort on getting elected and staying in 
  power, they don't even pretend to do their job.  And let me be clear, I'm 
  not saying Pelosi, Reid and Boehner were much better, it's just McConnell is 
  the most blatant hack of the bunch, every time I see him on TV I feel he is 
  giving me the finger.

  I am probably fooling myself that Paul Ryan would be different, but I don't 
  think we'll find out.

  -Original Message- 
  From: Bill Prince
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 1:40 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump's Supporters Love Him Even More After 
  Chicago Violence

  IMO, Obama moved right, and the Republicans moved further to the right.

  bp

  On 3/13/2016 6:01 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
  > Obama moved right as much as the Republicans moved left. Everybody's idea 
  > of compromise these days is you come to where I am and I'll make a deal.

Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the minute.....Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters, says he may pay legal fees - LA Times

I don’t think the guy ever got the ring back.

One thing that really bugs me about Obama is that he had a really good chance 
to support the Syrian rebels at the start of that mess (along with the whole 
region Arab Spring movement) and he didn’t.  Will never understand that.  He 
clearly isn’t against bombing.  Now Syria is in a similar mess as Iraq.  

After WWII it seems we intervene and it regularly goes to crap.  We don’t and 
it goes to crap.  There must be a lesson in there somewhere.  

I guess Panama and Grenada are positive outcomes.  Where else?  

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 3:47 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the minute.Trump takes 
a step toward supporting violence by supporters, says he may pay legal fees - 
LA Times

Now that isn't funny at all. That really is crazy. I saw him on, I think, face 
the nation this morning. He was non committal on condemning that old white guy 
hitting that protestor who was being led out. Trump said he should not have 
been flipping the bird, that is not justification. Yikes, he reminds me of 
portion more than anyone.
Remember when Putin stole that guys super bowl ring? Did he ever give that back?



On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 4:14 PM Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:

  
http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-trump-campaign-protests-20160313-story.html

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

oh no, i certainly have no "man" vibes for him.  i'm a wooman man 
all the way. lol

  - Original Message - 
  From: Jaime Solorza 
  To: Animal Farm 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:47 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

  I was referring to his man crush comment...Ryan seems more level headed for 
sure but I am not getting in shower with him...no self respecting vato loco 
would that...orale little cholo speak to spice the list Holmes 

  On Mar 13, 2016 3:42 PM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:

Really... Most everyone has been complaining about alon the actors not 
being adults. I haven't seen anyone act more maturely than Ryan, regardless of 
his politics.

On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 4:28 PM Jaime Solorza  
wrote:

  Yikes where is my Tecate to wipe those brain cells that read that
  ..dude..you are unique...

  On Mar 13, 2016 3:19 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  
wrote:

I have actually followed Paul Ryan since the first time he appeared on 
the national stage.  Very impressed with him.  Could almost call him my "man 
crush".   I'd be interested in hearing what you do not like about him Ken.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Ken Hohhof 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 2:04 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump's Supporters Love Him Even More 
AfterChicago Violence

  I think the "establishment" is missing why people are fed up with 
them, I'm 
  not convinced it's about left or right.  If I had to single out one 
person 
  as the poster boy for why the establishment has failed us, it would 
be Mitch 
  McConnell.  All 4 leaders in Congress have only been worried about 
their own 
  power and re-election, but McConnell is the worst of a bad bunch.

  I don't agree with Paul Ryan's economics or some of his politics, but 
I like 
  what he has said since being elected Speaker.  I would like to see if 
they 
  are just words, or if he would translate them into actions.  I don't 
think 
  we will get to find out, election politics seem to have rendered him 
  irrelevant.  And Mitch the Turtle would have to be replaced with 
someone 
  actually interested in governing.  I wonder what conservative goals 
could 
  have been accomplished in the 7 years Mitch has spent trying to make 
Obama 
  fail no matter how much damage it causes.  Tort reform?  
Modifications to 
  Obamacare?  Fix sequestration?  Tax reform?  Immigration reform?  
Mitch 
  doesn't care.  Mitch cares about Mitch.  That's the problem with the 
  establishment, they spend all their effort on getting elected and 
staying in 
  power, they don't even pretend to do their job.  And let me be clear, 
I'm 
  not saying Pelosi, Reid and Boehner were much better, it's just 
McConnell is 
  the most blatant hack of the bunch, every time I see him on TV I feel 
he is 
  giving me the finger.

  I am probably fooling myself that Paul Ryan would be different, but I 
don't 
  think we'll find out.

  -Original Message- 
  From: Bill Prince
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 1:40 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump's Supporters Love Him Even More 
After 
  Chicago Violence

  IMO, Obama moved right, and the Republicans moved further to the 
right.

  bp

  On 3/13/2016 6:01 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
  > Obama moved right as much as the Republicans moved left. 
Everybody's idea 
  > of compromise these days is you come to where I am and I'll make a 
deal.

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

well, the man gives a damn about the national debt and, as far as i can recall, 
hasn't said a single thing i don't agree with.
i sure can't say that about anyone else up there...

  - Original Message - 
  From: Jaime Solorza 
  To: Animal Farm 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:28 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

  Yikes where is my Tecate to wipe those brain cells that read that
  ..dude..you are unique...

  On Mar 13, 2016 3:19 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  wrote:

I have actually followed Paul Ryan since the first time he appeared on the 
national stage.  Very impressed with him.  Could almost call him my "man 
crush".   I'd be interested in hearing what you do not like about him Ken.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Ken Hohhof 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 2:04 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump's Supporters Love Him Even More 
AfterChicago Violence

  I think the "establishment" is missing why people are fed up with them, 
I'm 
  not convinced it's about left or right.  If I had to single out one 
person 
  as the poster boy for why the establishment has failed us, it would be 
Mitch 
  McConnell.  All 4 leaders in Congress have only been worried about their 
own 
  power and re-election, but McConnell is the worst of a bad bunch.

  I don't agree with Paul Ryan's economics or some of his politics, but I 
like 
  what he has said since being elected Speaker.  I would like to see if 
they 
  are just words, or if he would translate them into actions.  I don't 
think 
  we will get to find out, election politics seem to have rendered him 
  irrelevant.  And Mitch the Turtle would have to be replaced with someone 
  actually interested in governing.  I wonder what conservative goals could 
  have been accomplished in the 7 years Mitch has spent trying to make 
Obama 
  fail no matter how much damage it causes.  Tort reform?  Modifications to 
  Obamacare?  Fix sequestration?  Tax reform?  Immigration reform?  Mitch 
  doesn't care.  Mitch cares about Mitch.  That's the problem with the 
  establishment, they spend all their effort on getting elected and staying 
in 
  power, they don't even pretend to do their job.  And let me be clear, I'm 
  not saying Pelosi, Reid and Boehner were much better, it's just McConnell 
is 
  the most blatant hack of the bunch, every time I see him on TV I feel he 
is 
  giving me the finger.

  I am probably fooling myself that Paul Ryan would be different, but I 
don't 
  think we'll find out.

  -Original Message- 
  From: Bill Prince
  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 1:40 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump's Supporters Love Him Even More 
After 
  Chicago Violence

  IMO, Obama moved right, and the Republicans moved further to the right.

  bp

  On 3/13/2016 6:01 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
  > Obama moved right as much as the Republicans moved left. Everybody's 
idea 
  > of compromise these days is you come to where I am and I'll make a deal.

Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the minute.....Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters, says he may pay legal fees - LA Times

Not funny ha ha
On Mar 13, 2016 3:47 PM, "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Now that isn't funny at all. That really is crazy. I saw him on, I think,
> face the nation this morning. He was non committal on condemning that old
> white guy hitting that protestor who was being led out. Trump said he
> should not have been flipping the bird, that is not justification. Yikes,
> he reminds me of portion more than anyone.
> Remember when Putin stole that guys super bowl ring? Did he ever give that
> back?
>
> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 4:14 PM Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-trump-campaign-protests-20160313-story.html
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan

I was referring to his man crush comment...Ryan seems more level headed for
sure but I am not getting in shower with him...no self respecting vato
loco would that...orale little cholo speak to spice the list Holmes
On Mar 13, 2016 3:42 PM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:

> Really... Most everyone has been complaining about alon the actors not
> being adults. I haven't seen anyone act more maturely than Ryan, regardless
> of his politics.
>
> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 4:28 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> Yikes where is my Tecate to wipe those brain cells that read that
>> ..dude..you are unique...
>> On Mar 13, 2016 3:19 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I have actually followed Paul Ryan since the first time he appeared on
>>> the national stage.  Very impressed with him.  Could almost call him my
>>> "man crush".   I'd be interested in hearing what you do not like about him
>>> Ken.
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> *From:* Ken Hohhof 
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 2:04 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump's Supporters Love Him Even More
>>> AfterChicago Violence
>>>
>>> I think the "establishment" is missing why people are fed up with them,
>>> I'm
>>> not convinced it's about left or right.  If I had to single out one
>>> person
>>> as the poster boy for why the establishment has failed us, it would be
>>> Mitch
>>> McConnell.  All 4 leaders in Congress have only been worried about their
>>> own
>>> power and re-election, but McConnell is the worst of a bad bunch.
>>>
>>> I don't agree with Paul Ryan's economics or some of his politics, but I
>>> like
>>> what he has said since being elected Speaker.  I would like to see if
>>> they
>>> are just words, or if he would translate them into actions.  I don't
>>> think
>>> we will get to find out, election politics seem to have rendered him
>>> irrelevant.  And Mitch the Turtle would have to be replaced with someone
>>> actually interested in governing.  I wonder what conservative goals
>>> could
>>> have been accomplished in the 7 years Mitch has spent trying to make
>>> Obama
>>> fail no matter how much damage it causes.  Tort reform?  Modifications
>>> to
>>> Obamacare?  Fix sequestration?  Tax reform?  Immigration reform?  Mitch
>>> doesn't care.  Mitch cares about Mitch.  That's the problem with the
>>> establishment, they spend all their effort on getting elected and
>>> staying in
>>> power, they don't even pretend to do their job.  And let me be clear,
>>> I'm
>>> not saying Pelosi, Reid and Boehner were much better, it's just
>>> McConnell is
>>> the most blatant hack of the bunch, every time I see him on TV I feel he
>>> is
>>> giving me the finger.
>>>
>>> I am probably fooling myself that Paul Ryan would be different, but I
>>> don't
>>> think we'll find out.
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Bill Prince
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 1:40 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Donald Trump's Supporters Love Him Even More
>>> After
>>> Chicago Violence
>>>
>>> IMO, Obama moved right, and the Republicans moved further to the right.
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>> On 3/13/2016 6:01 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>>> > Obama moved right as much as the Republicans moved left. Everybody's
>>> idea
>>> > of compromise these days is you come to where I am and I'll make a
>>> deal.
>>>
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: And it just gets funnier by the minute.....Trump takes a step toward supporting violence by supporters, says he may pay legal fees - LA Times

Now that isn't funny at all. That really is crazy. I saw him on, I think,
face the nation this morning. He was non committal on condemning that old
white guy hitting that protestor who was being led out. Trump said he
should not have been flipping the bird, that is not justification. Yikes,
he reminds me of portion more than anyone.
Remember when Putin stole that guys super bowl ring? Did he ever give that
back?

On Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 4:14 PM Jaime Solorza <losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
> http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-trump-campaign-protests-20160313-story.html
>

Re: [AFMUG] Paul Ryan