Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Josh Reynolds]

Add Asus to that list, who made the Nexus 7 tablet.

On Oct 7, 2016 2:48 AM, "Mike Hammett" <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

> An LG phone is an LG phone. A Samsung phone is a Samsung phone. An HTC
> phone is an HTC phone. Google Nexus devices have been made by them all
> (Lenovo, HTC, LG, Samsung, etc.)
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ------
> *From: *"Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, October 6, 2016 1:34:57 PM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG]  Google wants to be Apple
>
> Don't most tech companies just hand their hardware specs to some other
> company (usually Chinese / Taiwanese) to have them made? The only companies
> that actually make phones are Foxconn and the like.
>
> On Thursday, October 6, 2016, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>
>> But they don't actually make things. They hand some hardware specs
>> (though I don't know how thorough) to a vendor and they make it. Other than
>> when Google owned Motorola, they haven't actually made any phones.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com>
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Thursday, October 6, 2016 10:45:51 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple
>>
>> Yes, back to the original subject.
>>
>>
>>
>> FYI, I still get a print newspaper at home, and it had a whole separate
>> section like 10 or 12 pages paid for by Google with the theme “Made By
>> Google”.  That cost a bunch.  So they view this as a big marketing push,
>> they now want to be known as a hardware company that makes things.  (Or
>> perhaps Things, as in Internet of Things.)
>>
>>
>>
>> It is a bit reminiscent of 1984 though.  George Orwell was right, the
>> Proles will pay to have their own Telescreens.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric Muehleisen
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 6, 2016 10:03 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple
>>
>>
>>
>> Why all the anger? It's simply personal preference. Apple has a closed
>> ecosystem. The hardware is tailored to a specific OS and vice-versa. They
>> have full control. This is the reason Apple will always have speed and
>> efficiency advantages. It should go without saying.
>>
>>
>>
>> Android is an OS built to work for hundreds of different hardware
>> configurations. I find that to be very impressive that it works as well as
>> it does. I think everyone understands the distinction between the two
>> platforms and know what to expect. The argument and comparisons between the
>> two is getting old. Each is a great product in their own right.
>>
>>
>>
>> To get back to the original subject line. I do agree. Google understands
>> they can make a better product if they have more control over the hardware.
>> I don't think anyone can dispute Google intentions in this particular case.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 9:53 AM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote:

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Jason McKemie]

Which, in turn, are likely made by another company. Nexus is just another
level of branding.

On Friday, October 7, 2016, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

> An LG phone is an LG phone. A Samsung phone is a Samsung phone. An HTC
> phone is an HTC phone. Google Nexus devices have been made by them all
> (Lenovo, HTC, LG, Samsung, etc.)
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com');>>
> *To: *af@afmug.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');>
> *Sent: *Thursday, October 6, 2016 1:34:57 PM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG]  Google wants to be Apple
>
> Don't most tech companies just hand their hardware specs to some other
> company (usually Chinese / Taiwanese) to have them made? The only companies
> that actually make phones are Foxconn and the like.
>
> On Thursday, October 6, 2016, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>
>> But they don't actually make things. They hand some hardware specs
>> (though I don't know how thorough) to a vendor and they make it. Other than
>> when Google owned Motorola, they haven't actually made any phones.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com>
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Thursday, October 6, 2016 10:45:51 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple
>>
>> Yes, back to the original subject.
>>
>>
>>
>> FYI, I still get a print newspaper at home, and it had a whole separate
>> section like 10 or 12 pages paid for by Google with the theme “Made By
>> Google”.  That cost a bunch.  So they view this as a big marketing push,
>> they now want to be known as a hardware company that makes things.  (Or
>> perhaps Things, as in Internet of Things.)
>>
>>
>>
>> It is a bit reminiscent of 1984 though.  George Orwell was right, the
>> Proles will pay to have their own Telescreens.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric Muehleisen
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 6, 2016 10:03 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple
>>
>>
>>
>> Why all the anger? It's simply personal preference. Apple has a closed
>> ecosystem. The hardware is tailored to a specific OS and vice-versa. They
>> have full control. This is the reason Apple will always have speed and
>> efficiency advantages. It should go without saying.
>>
>>
>>
>> Android is an OS built to work for hundreds of different hardware
>> configurations. I find that to be very impressive that it works as well as
>> it does. I think everyone understands the distinction between the two
>> platforms and know what to expect. The argument and comparisons between the
>> two is getting old. Each is a great product in their own right.
>>
>>
>>
>> To get back to the original subject line. I do agree. Google understands
>> they can make a better product if they have more control over the hardware.
>> I don't think anyone ca

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Mike Hammett]

An LG phone is an LG phone. A Samsung phone is a Samsung phone. An HTC phone is 
an HTC phone. Google Nexus devices have been made by them all (Lenovo, HTC, LG, 
Samsung, etc.) 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2016 1:34:57 PM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple 

Don't most tech companies just hand their hardware specs to some other company 
(usually Chinese / Taiwanese) to have them made? The only companies that 
actually make phones are Foxconn and the like. 

On Thursday, October 6, 2016, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




But they don't actually make things. They hand some hardware specs (though I 
don't know how thorough) to a vendor and they make it. Other than when Google 
owned Motorola, they haven't actually made any phones. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Ken Hohhof" < af...@kwisp.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2016 10:45:51 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple 



Yes, back to the original subject. 

FYI, I still get a print newspaper at home, and it had a whole separate section 
like 10 or 12 pages paid for by Google with the theme “Made By Google”. That 
cost a bunch. So they view this as a big marketing push, they now want to be 
known as a hardware company that makes things. (Or perhaps Things, as in 
Internet of Things.) 

It is a bit reminiscent of 1984 though. George Orwell was right, the Proles 
will pay to have their own Telescreens. 


From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Eric Muehleisen 
Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2016 10:03 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple 


Why all the anger? It's simply personal preference. Apple has a closed 
ecosystem. The hardware is tailored to a specific OS and vice-versa. They have 
full control. This is the reason Apple will always have speed and efficiency 
advantages. It should go without saying. 



Android is an OS built to work for hundreds of different hardware 
configurations. I find that to be very impressive that it works as well as it 
does. I think everyone understands the distinction between the two platforms 
and know what to expect. The argument and comparisons between the two is 
getting old. Each is a great product in their own right. 



To get back to the original subject line. I do agree. Google understands they 
can make a better product if they have more control over the hardware. I don't 
think anyone can dispute Google intentions in this particular case. 



On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 9:53 AM, Travis Johnson < t...@ida.net > wrote: 



You obviously didn't read my message... my point was, in the US market, which 
is the "most educated, most advanced" country in the world, Apple has a 44% 
marketshare... almost double of the 2nd place phone. 

We can talk "Android" use vs IOS use, but anyone can build and GIVE AWAY an 
Operating System... just like starting a company that you don't have to make a 
profit... anyone can do that. :) 

Travis 

On 10/5/2016 7:55 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote: 


You have a strong opinion, but it is poorly formed. Apple has a decent take in 
the US market, but that's a small percentage of the overall pie. That's slated 
to slide more away from Apple given current trends. 
2nd quarter of this year Android was at 86.2% global smartphone share, and 
Apple is losing ground quarter after quarter. 
https://techcrunch.com/2016/08/18/gartner-androids-smartphone-marketshare-hit-86-2-in-q2/
 
87.6 once more results were in: 
http://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-os-market-share.jsp 
You're entitled to your opinion though, by all means. 



On Oct 5, 2016 8:24 PM, "Travis Johnson" < t...@ida.net > wrote: 


Actually, Apple is the top smartphone in the US... nobody cares about the rest 
of the world... they have 44% marketshare in the US. You know, the country 
where every real Internet and tech company is located... Apple, Intel, 
Facebook, Instagram, Amazon, Google, etc. 

Take your pick of Android phone... their screen responses all suck compared to 
an iPhone. :) 

Travis 


On 10/5/2016 6:02 PM, Bill Prince wrote: 


It was not me that said that. 

I don't buy Apple products. Period. I would not get an Apple product if it were 
free. 

And there is good reason that most of the people on the planet use a smartphone 
other than theirs. 

And a Samsung smartphone is not real Android, so that is a piss poor 
comparison. 


bp 
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> 

On 10/5/2016 3:30 PM, Travis Johnson wrote: 


Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some people drive a Chevy, 
some people drive a BMW. 

I think it was you that even sa

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Robert Andrews]

About that greatest thing...


'Merica

https://www.facebook.com/youtubitall/videos/975707045884161/

[AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Jason McKemie]

Don't most tech companies just hand their hardware specs to some other
company (usually Chinese / Taiwanese) to have them made? The only companies
that actually make phones are Foxconn and the like.

On Thursday, October 6, 2016, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af...@ics-il.net');>> wrote:

> But they don't actually make things. They hand some hardware specs (though
> I don't know how thorough) to a vendor and they make it. Other than when
> Google owned Motorola, they haven't actually made any phones.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ----------
> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com>
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, October 6, 2016 10:45:51 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple
>
> Yes, back to the original subject.
>
>
>
> FYI, I still get a print newspaper at home, and it had a whole separate
> section like 10 or 12 pages paid for by Google with the theme “Made By
> Google”.  That cost a bunch.  So they view this as a big marketing push,
> they now want to be known as a hardware company that makes things.  (Or
> perhaps Things, as in Internet of Things.)
>
>
>
> It is a bit reminiscent of 1984 though.  George Orwell was right, the
> Proles will pay to have their own Telescreens.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric Muehleisen
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 6, 2016 10:03 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple
>
>
>
> Why all the anger? It's simply personal preference. Apple has a closed
> ecosystem. The hardware is tailored to a specific OS and vice-versa. They
> have full control. This is the reason Apple will always have speed and
> efficiency advantages. It should go without saying.
>
>
>
> Android is an OS built to work for hundreds of different hardware
> configurations. I find that to be very impressive that it works as well as
> it does. I think everyone understands the distinction between the two
> platforms and know what to expect. The argument and comparisons between the
> two is getting old. Each is a great product in their own right.
>
>
>
> To get back to the original subject line. I do agree. Google understands
> they can make a better product if they have more control over the hardware.
> I don't think anyone can dispute Google intentions in this particular case.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 9:53 AM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote:
>
> You obviously didn't read my message... my point was, in the US market,
> which is the "most educated, most advanced" country in the world, Apple has
> a 44% marketshare... almost double of the 2nd place phone.
>
> We can talk "Android" use vs IOS use, but anyone can build and GIVE AWAY
> an Operating System... just like starting a company that you don't have to
> make a profit... anyone can do that.  :)
>
> Travis
>
> On 10/5/2016 7:55 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>
> You have a strong opinion, but it is poorly formed. Apple has a decent
> take in the US market, but that's a small percentage of the overall pie.
> That's slated to slide more away from Apple given current trends.
>
> 2nd quarter of this year Android was at 86.2% global smartphone share, and
> Apple is losing ground quarter after quarter.
>
> https://techcrunch.com/2016/08/18/gartner-androids-smartphon
> e-marketshare-hit-86-2-in-q2/
>
> 87.6 once more results were in:
> http://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-os-market-share.jsp
>
> You're entitled to your opinion though, by all means.
>
>
>
> On Oct 5, 2016 8:24 PM, "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net> wrote:
>
> Actually, Apple is the top smartphone in the US... nobody cares about the
> rest of the world... they have 44% marketshare in the US. You know, the
> country where every real Internet and tech company is located... Apple,
> Intel, Facebook, Instagram, Amazon, Google, etc.
>
> Take your pick of Android phone... their scre

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[chuck]

We are the most advanced country when it comes to getting Kim Kardasian more 
clicks per day than any other.


-Original Message- 
From: Robert

Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2016 9:50 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

Sorry, US being the most educated, most advanced country in the world is
so US centric and ignorant of the rest of the world isn't not even funny
anymore.We ARE the highest consumers of resources and wealthiest
country in the world.   And the return of that to the average citizen is
one of the lowest in the world...   I'll leave the relationship of that
to iphone consumption to your imagination...

On 10/6/16 7:53 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:

You obviously didn't read my message... my point was, in the US market,
which is the "most educated, most advanced" country in the world, Apple
has a 44% marketshare... almost double of the 2nd place phone.

We can talk "Android" use vs IOS use, but anyone can build and GIVE AWAY
an Operating System... just like starting a company that you don't have
to make a profit... anyone can do that.  :)

Travis

On 10/5/2016 7:55 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:


You have a strong opinion, but it is poorly formed. Apple has a decent
take in the US market, but that's a small percentage of the overall
pie. That's slated to slide more away from Apple given current trends.

2nd quarter of this year Android was at 86.2% global smartphone share,
and Apple is losing ground quarter after quarter.

https://techcrunch.com/2016/08/18/gartner-androids-smartphone-marketshare-hit-86-2-in-q2/

87.6 once more results were in:
http://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-os-market-share.jsp

You're entitled to your opinion though, by all means.


On Oct 5, 2016 8:24 PM, "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net
<mailto:t...@ida.net>> wrote:

Actually, Apple is the top smartphone in the US... nobody cares
about the rest of the world... they have 44% marketshare in the
US. You know, the country where every real Internet and tech
company is located... Apple, Intel, Facebook, Instagram, Amazon,
Google, etc.

Take your pick of Android phone... their screen responses all suck
compared to an iPhone. :)

Travis


On 10/5/2016 6:02 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

It was not me that said that.

I don't buy Apple products. Period. I would not get an Apple
product if it were free.

And there is good reason that most of the people on the planet
use a smartphone other than theirs.

And a Samsung smartphone is not real Android, so that is a
piss poor comparison.


bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/5/2016 3:30 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:

Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some
people drive a Chevy, some people drive a BMW.

I think it was you that even said "If the price was the
same, everyone would be using an iPhone"... which I
honestly believe. I have used a brand new Samsung phone
with Android, and the first thing I noticed is that the
screen response is not the same as an iPhone

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Adam Moffett]

so the "thought police" will be a corporation in this analogy.  Good 
thing they'll "do no evil".



-- Original Message --
From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 10/6/2016 12:32:30 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

Since I was looking up Telescreens on Wikipedia, I saw this description 
of the Proles which seems to describe our current highly educated US 
population:


Their functions are simple: work and breed. They care little about 
anything but home and family, neighbour quarrels, films, football, 
beer, lottery tickets, and other such bread and circuses. They are not 
required to express support for the Party beyond occasional patriotic 
fervour; the Party creates meaningless entertainment, songs, novels and 
even pornography for the proles — all written by machines.  …  Proles 
do not wear uniforms, may use cosmetics, have a relatively free 
internal market economy, and are even permitted religion. Proles also 
have liberal sex lives, uninterrupted by the Party, and divorce and 
prostitution are enjoyed by Proles. Despite these personal freedoms, 
the Thought Police plant agents among the proles to spread false 
rumours and eliminate any individuals deemed capable of causing 
trouble.



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Paul Stewart
Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2016 11:12 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

Actually Canada is the most educated country in the world …

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/09/27/and-the-worlds-most-educated-country-is/

I’m sure that’s debatable and depends on who did the research for the 
article too…


But the world doesn’t revolve around the US … sure, big player and lots 
of tech companies ….  and lots of companies that move to the US to get 
fast/large market share


But … that’s tech companies … if you look at the largest companies in 
the world for revenue, only 2 US companies make the list:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_companies_by_revenue

If you look at wealthiest companies (which personally would be my way 
to rank companies of significance):


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wealthiest_organizations


Just my two cents worth … from someone who has travelled a significant 
amount of the world


Paul


Sorry, US being the most educated, most advanced country in the world 
is so US centric and ignorant of the rest of the world isn't not even 
funny anymore.We ARE the highest consumers of resources and 
wealthiest country in the world.   And the return of that to the 
average citizen is one of the lowest in the world...   I'll leave the 
relationship of that to iphone consumption to your imagination...


On 10/6/16 7:53 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:

You obviously didn't read my message... my point was, in the US market,
which is the "most educated, most advanced" country in the world, Apple
has a 44% marketshare... almost double of the 2nd place phone.

We can talk "Android" use vs IOS use, but anyone can build and GIVE 
AWAY

an Operating System... just like starting a company that you don't have
to make a profit... anyone can do that.  :)

Travis

On 10/5/2016 7:55 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:


You have a strong opinion, but it is poorly formed. Apple has a decent
take in the US market, but that's a small percentage of the overall
pie. That's slated to slide more away from Apple given current trends.

2nd quarter of this year Android was at 86.2% global smartphone share,
and Apple is losing ground quarter after quarter.

https://techcrunch.com/2016/08/18/gartner-androids-smartphone-marketshare-hit-86-2-in-q2/

87.6 once more results were in:
http://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-os-market-share.jsp

You're entitled to your opinion though, by all means.


On Oct 5, 2016 8:24 PM, "Travis Johnson" <mailto:t...@ida.net
<mailto:t...@ida.net>> wrote:

   Actually, Apple is the top smartphone in the US... nobody cares
   about the rest of the world... they have 44% marketshare in the
   US. You know, the country where every real Internet and tech
   company is located... Apple, Intel, Facebook, Instagram, Amazon,
   Google, etc.

   Take your pick of Android phone... their screen responses all suck
   compared to an iPhone. :)

   Travis


   On 10/5/2016 6:02 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

   It was not me that said that.

   I don't buy Apple products. Period. I would not get an Apple
   product if it were free.

   And there is good reason that most of the people on the planet
   use a smartphone other than theirs.

   And a Samsung smartphone is not real Android, so that is a
   piss poor comparison.


   bp
   <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

   On 10/5/2016 3:30 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:

   Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some
   people drive a Chevy, some people drive a BMW.

   I t

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Ken Hohhof]

Since I was looking up Telescreens on Wikipedia, I saw this description of the 
Proles which seems to describe our current highly educated US population:

Their functions are simple: work and breed. They care little about anything but 
home and family, neighbour quarrels, films, football, beer, lottery tickets, 
and other such bread and circuses. They are not required to express support for 
the Party beyond occasional patriotic fervour; the Party creates meaningless 
entertainment, songs, novels and even pornography for the proles — all written 
by machines.  …  Proles do not wear uniforms, may use cosmetics, have a 
relatively free internal market economy, and are even permitted religion. 
Proles also have liberal sex lives, uninterrupted by the Party, and divorce and 
prostitution are enjoyed by Proles. Despite these personal freedoms, the 
Thought Police plant agents among the proles to spread false rumours and 
eliminate any individuals deemed capable of causing trouble.


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Paul Stewart
Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2016 11:12 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

Actually Canada is the most educated country in the world …

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/09/27/and-the-worlds-most-educated-country-is/

I’m sure that’s debatable and depends on who did the research for the article 
too…

But the world doesn’t revolve around the US … sure, big player and lots of tech 
companies ….  and lots of companies that move to the US to get fast/large 
market share

But … that’s tech companies … if you look at the largest companies in the world 
for revenue, only 2 US companies make the list:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_companies_by_revenue

If you look at wealthiest companies (which personally would be my way to rank 
companies of significance):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wealthiest_organizations


Just my two cents worth … from someone who has travelled a significant amount 
of the world 

Paul


Sorry, US being the most educated, most advanced country in the world is so US 
centric and ignorant of the rest of the world isn't not even funny anymore.
We ARE the highest consumers of resources and wealthiest country in the world.  
 And the return of that to the average citizen is one of the lowest in the 
world...   I'll leave the relationship of that to iphone consumption to your 
imagination...

On 10/6/16 7:53 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:

You obviously didn't read my message... my point was, in the US market,
which is the "most educated, most advanced" country in the world, Apple
has a 44% marketshare... almost double of the 2nd place phone.

We can talk "Android" use vs IOS use, but anyone can build and GIVE AWAY
an Operating System... just like starting a company that you don't have
to make a profit... anyone can do that.  :)

Travis

On 10/5/2016 7:55 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:


You have a strong opinion, but it is poorly formed. Apple has a decent
take in the US market, but that's a small percentage of the overall
pie. That's slated to slide more away from Apple given current trends.

2nd quarter of this year Android was at 86.2% global smartphone share,
and Apple is losing ground quarter after quarter.

https://techcrunch.com/2016/08/18/gartner-androids-smartphone-marketshare-hit-86-2-in-q2/

87.6 once more results were in:
http://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-os-market-share.jsp

You're entitled to your opinion though, by all means.


On Oct 5, 2016 8:24 PM, "Travis Johnson" <mailto:t...@ida.net
<mailto:t...@ida.net>> wrote:

   Actually, Apple is the top smartphone in the US... nobody cares
   about the rest of the world... they have 44% marketshare in the
   US. You know, the country where every real Internet and tech
   company is located... Apple, Intel, Facebook, Instagram, Amazon,
   Google, etc.

   Take your pick of Android phone... their screen responses all suck
   compared to an iPhone. :)

   Travis


   On 10/5/2016 6:02 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

   It was not me that said that.

   I don't buy Apple products. Period. I would not get an Apple
   product if it were free.

   And there is good reason that most of the people on the planet
   use a smartphone other than theirs.

   And a Samsung smartphone is not real Android, so that is a
   piss poor comparison.


   bp
   <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

   On 10/5/2016 3:30 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:

   Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some
   people drive a Chevy, some people drive a BMW.

   I think it was you that even said "If the price was the
   same, everyone would be using an iPhone"... which I
   honestly believe. I have used a brand new Samsung phone
   with Android, and the first thing I noticed is that the
   screen response is not the same as an iPhone

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Ken Hohhof]

By that definition, Apple doesn’t make things either.

 

Being a “maker” isn’t what it used to be.  I am old enough to remember when I 
was an engineer and I could walk 100 feet to the other side of the wall to the 
factory.  Then things changed to where we would build prototypes and first 
production locally and later transition to building offshore.  Probably today 
even the actual engineers are offshore, and marketing just sends them some 
sketches of what they want.  Apple probably does maintain more control over 
design and production than most.  A lot of the branded products we buy are just 
generic Chinese designs with a custom logo and paintjob.  Even cars.  I was 
speculating with my wife which of the cheaper Chevy models are just rebadged 
Korean or Japanese cars, I know their small van is Nissan, and I suspect the 
Sonic and Spark are not GM designs, I know the Aveo was Daewoo.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2016 11:09 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

 

But they don't actually make things. They hand some hardware specs (though I 
don't know how thorough) to a vendor and they make it. Other than when Google 
owned Motorola, they haven't actually made any phones.



-
Mike Hammett
 <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>  
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 
 <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>  
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> 
 <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP
 <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>  
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> 




  _  

From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com <mailto:af...@kwisp.com> >
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 
Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2016 10:45:51 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

Yes, back to the original subject.

 

FYI, I still get a print newspaper at home, and it had a whole separate section 
like 10 or 12 pages paid for by Google with the theme “Made By Google”.  That 
cost a bunch.  So they view this as a big marketing push, they now want to be 
known as a hardware company that makes things.  (Or perhaps Things, as in 
Internet of Things.)

 

It is a bit reminiscent of 1984 though.  George Orwell was right, the Proles 
will pay to have their own Telescreens.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Eric Muehleisen
Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2016 10:03 AM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

 

Why all the anger? It's simply personal preference. Apple has a closed 
ecosystem. The hardware is tailored to a specific OS and vice-versa. They have 
full control. This is the reason Apple will always have speed and efficiency 
advantages. It should go without saying.

 

Android is an OS built to work for hundreds of different hardware 
configurations. I find that to be very impressive that it works as well as it 
does. I think everyone understands the distinction between the two platforms 
and know what to expect. The argument and comparisons between the two is 
getting old. Each is a great product in their own right.

 

To get back to the original subject line. I do agree. Google understands they 
can make a better product if they have more control over the hardware. I don't 
think anyone can dispute Google intentions in this particular case.

 

On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 9:53 AM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net 
<mailto:t...@ida.net> > wrote:

You obviously didn't read my message... my point was, in the US market, which 
is the "most educated, most advanced" country in the world, Apple has a 44% 
marketshare... almost double of the 2nd place phone.

We can talk "Android" use vs IOS use, but anyone can build and GIVE AWAY an 
Operating System... just like starting a company that you don't have to make a 
profit... anyone can do that.  :)

Travis

On 10/5/2016 7:55 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

You have a strong opinion, but it is poorly formed. Apple has a decent take in 
the US market, but that's a small percentage of the overall pie. That's slated 
to slide more away from Apple given current trends.

2nd quarter of this year Android was at 86.2% global smartphone share, and 
Apple is losing ground quarter after quarter.

https://techcrunch.com/2016/08/18/gartner-androids-smartphone-marketshare-hit-86-2-in-q2/

87.6 once more results were in:
http://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-os-market-share.jsp

You're entitled to your opinion though, by all means.

 

On Oct 5, 2016 8:24 PM, &quo

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Paul Stewart]

Actually Canada is the most educated country in the world …

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/09/27/and-the-worlds-most-educated-country-is/

I’m sure that’s debatable and depends on who did the research for the article 
too…

But the world doesn’t revolve around the US … sure, big player and lots of tech 
companies ….  and lots of companies that move to the US to get fast/large 
market share

But … that’s tech companies … if you look at the largest companies in the world 
for revenue, only 2 US companies make the list:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_companies_by_revenue 


If you look at wealthiest companies (which personally would be my way to rank 
companies of significance):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wealthiest_organizations 



Just my two cents worth … from someone who has travelled a significant amount 
of the world 

Paul


> Sorry, US being the most educated, most advanced country in the world is so 
> US centric and ignorant of the rest of the world isn't not even funny 
> anymore.We ARE the highest consumers of resources and wealthiest country 
> in the world.   And the return of that to the average citizen is one of the 
> lowest in the world...   I'll leave the relationship of that to iphone 
> consumption to your imagination...
> 
> On 10/6/16 7:53 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>> You obviously didn't read my message... my point was, in the US market,
>> which is the "most educated, most advanced" country in the world, Apple
>> has a 44% marketshare... almost double of the 2nd place phone.
>> 
>> We can talk "Android" use vs IOS use, but anyone can build and GIVE AWAY
>> an Operating System... just like starting a company that you don't have
>> to make a profit... anyone can do that.  :)
>> 
>> Travis
>> 
>> On 10/5/2016 7:55 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>> 
>>> You have a strong opinion, but it is poorly formed. Apple has a decent
>>> take in the US market, but that's a small percentage of the overall
>>> pie. That's slated to slide more away from Apple given current trends.
>>> 
>>> 2nd quarter of this year Android was at 86.2% global smartphone share,
>>> and Apple is losing ground quarter after quarter.
>>> 
>>> https://techcrunch.com/2016/08/18/gartner-androids-smartphone-marketshare-hit-86-2-in-q2/
>>> 
>>> 87.6 once more results were in:
>>> http://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-os-market-share.jsp
>>> 
>>> You're entitled to your opinion though, by all means.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Oct 5, 2016 8:24 PM, "Travis Johnson" >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>>Actually, Apple is the top smartphone in the US... nobody cares
>>>about the rest of the world... they have 44% marketshare in the
>>>US. You know, the country where every real Internet and tech
>>>company is located... Apple, Intel, Facebook, Instagram, Amazon,
>>>Google, etc.
>>> 
>>>Take your pick of Android phone... their screen responses all suck
>>>compared to an iPhone. :)
>>> 
>>>Travis
>>> 
>>> 
>>>On 10/5/2016 6:02 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>> 
>>>It was not me that said that.
>>> 
>>>I don't buy Apple products. Period. I would not get an Apple
>>>product if it were free.
>>> 
>>>And there is good reason that most of the people on the planet
>>>use a smartphone other than theirs.
>>> 
>>>And a Samsung smartphone is not real Android, so that is a
>>>piss poor comparison.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>bp
>>>
>>> 
>>>On 10/5/2016 3:30 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>>> 
>>>Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some
>>>people drive a Chevy, some people drive a BMW.
>>> 
>>>I think it was you that even said "If the price was the
>>>same, everyone would be using an iPhone"... which I
>>>honestly believe. I have used a brand new Samsung phone
>>>with Android, and the first thing I noticed is that the
>>>screen response is not the same as an iPhone
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Mike Hammett]

But they don't actually make things. They hand some hardware specs (though I 
don't know how thorough) to a vendor and they make it. Other than when Google 
owned Motorola, they haven't actually made any phones. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2016 10:45:51 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple 



Yes, back to the original subject. 

FYI, I still get a print newspaper at home, and it had a whole separate section 
like 10 or 12 pages paid for by Google with the theme “Made By Google”. That 
cost a bunch. So they view this as a big marketing push, they now want to be 
known as a hardware company that makes things. (Or perhaps Things, as in 
Internet of Things.) 

It is a bit reminiscent of 1984 though. George Orwell was right, the Proles 
will pay to have their own Telescreens. 


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Eric Muehleisen 
Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2016 10:03 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple 


Why all the anger? It's simply personal preference. Apple has a closed 
ecosystem. The hardware is tailored to a specific OS and vice-versa. They have 
full control. This is the reason Apple will always have speed and efficiency 
advantages. It should go without saying. 



Android is an OS built to work for hundreds of different hardware 
configurations. I find that to be very impressive that it works as well as it 
does. I think everyone understands the distinction between the two platforms 
and know what to expect. The argument and comparisons between the two is 
getting old. Each is a great product in their own right. 



To get back to the original subject line. I do agree. Google understands they 
can make a better product if they have more control over the hardware. I don't 
think anyone can dispute Google intentions in this particular case. 



On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 9:53 AM, Travis Johnson < t...@ida.net > wrote: 



You obviously didn't read my message... my point was, in the US market, which 
is the "most educated, most advanced" country in the world, Apple has a 44% 
marketshare... almost double of the 2nd place phone. 

We can talk "Android" use vs IOS use, but anyone can build and GIVE AWAY an 
Operating System... just like starting a company that you don't have to make a 
profit... anyone can do that. :) 

Travis 

On 10/5/2016 7:55 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote: 


You have a strong opinion, but it is poorly formed. Apple has a decent take in 
the US market, but that's a small percentage of the overall pie. That's slated 
to slide more away from Apple given current trends. 
2nd quarter of this year Android was at 86.2% global smartphone share, and 
Apple is losing ground quarter after quarter. 
https://techcrunch.com/2016/08/18/gartner-androids-smartphone-marketshare-hit-86-2-in-q2/
 
87.6 once more results were in: 
http://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-os-market-share.jsp 
You're entitled to your opinion though, by all means. 



On Oct 5, 2016 8:24 PM, "Travis Johnson" < t...@ida.net > wrote: 


Actually, Apple is the top smartphone in the US... nobody cares about the rest 
of the world... they have 44% marketshare in the US. You know, the country 
where every real Internet and tech company is located... Apple, Intel, 
Facebook, Instagram, Amazon, Google, etc. 

Take your pick of Android phone... their screen responses all suck compared to 
an iPhone. :) 

Travis 


On 10/5/2016 6:02 PM, Bill Prince wrote: 


It was not me that said that. 

I don't buy Apple products. Period. I would not get an Apple product if it were 
free. 

And there is good reason that most of the people on the planet use a smartphone 
other than theirs. 

And a Samsung smartphone is not real Android, so that is a piss poor 
comparison. 


bp 
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> 

On 10/5/2016 3:30 PM, Travis Johnson wrote: 


Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some people drive a Chevy, 
some people drive a BMW. 

I think it was you that even said "If the price was the same, everyone would be 
using an iPhone"... which I honestly believe. I have used a brand new Samsung 
phone with Android, and the first thing I noticed is that the screen response 
is not the same as an iPhone 

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Robert]

Sorry, US being the most educated, most advanced country in the world is 
so US centric and ignorant of the rest of the world isn't not even funny 
anymore.We ARE the highest consumers of resources and wealthiest 
country in the world.   And the return of that to the average citizen is 
one of the lowest in the world...   I'll leave the relationship of that 
to iphone consumption to your imagination...


On 10/6/16 7:53 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:

You obviously didn't read my message... my point was, in the US market,
which is the "most educated, most advanced" country in the world, Apple
has a 44% marketshare... almost double of the 2nd place phone.

We can talk "Android" use vs IOS use, but anyone can build and GIVE AWAY
an Operating System... just like starting a company that you don't have
to make a profit... anyone can do that.  :)

Travis

On 10/5/2016 7:55 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:


You have a strong opinion, but it is poorly formed. Apple has a decent
take in the US market, but that's a small percentage of the overall
pie. That's slated to slide more away from Apple given current trends.

2nd quarter of this year Android was at 86.2% global smartphone share,
and Apple is losing ground quarter after quarter.

https://techcrunch.com/2016/08/18/gartner-androids-smartphone-marketshare-hit-86-2-in-q2/

87.6 once more results were in:
http://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-os-market-share.jsp

You're entitled to your opinion though, by all means.


On Oct 5, 2016 8:24 PM, "Travis Johnson" > wrote:

Actually, Apple is the top smartphone in the US... nobody cares
about the rest of the world... they have 44% marketshare in the
US. You know, the country where every real Internet and tech
company is located... Apple, Intel, Facebook, Instagram, Amazon,
Google, etc.

Take your pick of Android phone... their screen responses all suck
compared to an iPhone. :)

Travis


On 10/5/2016 6:02 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

It was not me that said that.

I don't buy Apple products. Period. I would not get an Apple
product if it were free.

And there is good reason that most of the people on the planet
use a smartphone other than theirs.

And a Samsung smartphone is not real Android, so that is a
piss poor comparison.


bp


On 10/5/2016 3:30 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:

Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some
people drive a Chevy, some people drive a BMW.

I think it was you that even said "If the price was the
same, everyone would be using an iPhone"... which I
honestly believe. I have used a brand new Samsung phone
with Android, and the first thing I noticed is that the
screen response is not the same as an iPhone

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Ken Hohhof]

Yes, back to the original subject.

 

FYI, I still get a print newspaper at home, and it had a whole separate section 
like 10 or 12 pages paid for by Google with the theme “Made By Google”.  That 
cost a bunch.  So they view this as a big marketing push, they now want to be 
known as a hardware company that makes things.  (Or perhaps Things, as in 
Internet of Things.)

 

It is a bit reminiscent of 1984 though.  George Orwell was right, the Proles 
will pay to have their own Telescreens.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Eric Muehleisen
Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2016 10:03 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

 

Why all the anger? It's simply personal preference. Apple has a closed 
ecosystem. The hardware is tailored to a specific OS and vice-versa. They have 
full control. This is the reason Apple will always have speed and efficiency 
advantages. It should go without saying.

 

Android is an OS built to work for hundreds of different hardware 
configurations. I find that to be very impressive that it works as well as it 
does. I think everyone understands the distinction between the two platforms 
and know what to expect. The argument and comparisons between the two is 
getting old. Each is a great product in their own right.

 

To get back to the original subject line. I do agree. Google understands they 
can make a better product if they have more control over the hardware. I don't 
think anyone can dispute Google intentions in this particular case.

 

On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 9:53 AM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net 
<mailto:t...@ida.net> > wrote:

You obviously didn't read my message... my point was, in the US market, which 
is the "most educated, most advanced" country in the world, Apple has a 44% 
marketshare... almost double of the 2nd place phone.

We can talk "Android" use vs IOS use, but anyone can build and GIVE AWAY an 
Operating System... just like starting a company that you don't have to make a 
profit... anyone can do that.  :)

Travis

On 10/5/2016 7:55 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

You have a strong opinion, but it is poorly formed. Apple has a decent take in 
the US market, but that's a small percentage of the overall pie. That's slated 
to slide more away from Apple given current trends.

2nd quarter of this year Android was at 86.2% global smartphone share, and 
Apple is losing ground quarter after quarter.

https://techcrunch.com/2016/08/18/gartner-androids-smartphone-marketshare-hit-86-2-in-q2/

87.6 once more results were in:
http://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-os-market-share.jsp

You're entitled to your opinion though, by all means.

 

On Oct 5, 2016 8:24 PM, "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net <mailto:t...@ida.net> > 
wrote:

Actually, Apple is the top smartphone in the US... nobody cares about the rest 
of the world... they have 44% marketshare in the US. You know, the country 
where every real Internet and tech company is located... Apple, Intel, 
Facebook, Instagram, Amazon, Google, etc.

Take your pick of Android phone... their screen responses all suck compared to 
an iPhone. :)

Travis


On 10/5/2016 6:02 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

It was not me that said that.

I don't buy Apple products. Period. I would not get an Apple product if it were 
free.

And there is good reason that most of the people on the planet use a smartphone 
other than theirs.

And a Samsung smartphone is not real Android, so that is a piss poor comparison.


bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/5/2016 3:30 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:

Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some people drive a Chevy, 
some people drive a BMW.

I think it was you that even said "If the price was the same, everyone would be 
using an iPhone"... which I honestly believe. I have used a brand new Samsung 
phone with Android, and the first thing I noticed is that the screen response 
is not the same as an iPhone

 

 

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Cassidy B. Larson]

I usually don’t get involved in the holy war, but figured I’d comment on my 
experience on this one.

I myself am a bit technically inclined and do everything Josh mentioned in his 
email from my iPhone.
I’m able to focus less on "rooting my phone" and more time fixing problems, 
making money and enjoying life.
I’ve jailbroken an old iPhone 4 back when I wanted to play around with it, but 
I’ve grown out of that mentality and just want something that works.
Maybe I’m getting old? Hah.
 
I’ve also converted my immediate family away from Windows to Macs years ago and 
time with my family 
has become much less stressful as a result…but that’s another whole set of holy 
wars to discuss.

Again, not the same situation applies to everybody, but you CAN do technically 
inclined things with an iPhone, and I do. 

For me, I’m not trying to convert or shame.  Use whatever works best for you. 
For me and mine, an iPhone does the job. 

> On Oct 6, 2016, at 9:33 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
> 
> I never pretended to be typical or normal. I did reference "simple shit" 
> users in my last message.
> 
> As a tool, the iPhone is much more limited than Android platforms. As a 
> fashion accessory, it's excellent. I'm not even sure how a technically 
> inclined person can use an iPhone.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>  <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> 
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> 
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> 
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>  <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> 
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> 
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>  <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
> 
> 
>  <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>>
> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
> Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2016 10:29:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple
> 
> You people who brag about first thing you  do is jailbreaking and rooting, 
> that’s great for you, but that’s hardly the typical cellphone customer.
>  
> That’s the problem with discussing a mass market device on a list like this.  
> I remember from the Marketing 101 course I had to take in business school, 
> the professor said remember, your target market is not people like you.  This 
> goes double for techies.  Think of the boys on Big Bang Theory designing 
> their killer app to recognize equations,  certainly that’s something 
> everyone needs .
>  
> Even on this list, can I be the only person who views my phone as just a tool 
> like a drill or wrench?  I don’t want to modify it, I just want it to make 
> calls and run apps.  My phone is not a hobby.  Is it too much to ask that a 
> phone be useful with the factory software?
>  
>   <>
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On 
> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2016 9:52 AM
> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple
>  
> Text messaging hardly counts as heavy usage. It's a single, low impact app.
> 
> If you upgrade once a year, you never have had the device long enough to need 
> to reset it to factory. If they're so great, why are you replacing them so 
> often?
> 
> Of course if you think texting is heavy usage, you've never found a need to 
> do more with your phone (like jailbreaking or rooting). I root immediately 
> for better control over and information from the radios, for one. That's not 
> even possible on Apple.
> 
> For a "simple shit" user, there is no major difference between an iPhone and 
> a mainstream Galaxy S or an iPad and a Galaxy Tab. All four do Chrome, 
> Facebook and Instagram.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>  <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> 
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> 
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> 
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>  <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> 
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> 
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>  <https://www.facebook.com

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Travis Johnson]

Well, we can surely debate this topic if you want, because I disagree. 
Much of the statistics and studies you read are full of US based "fear" 
tactics and try to scare people and keep the country "motivated". My 
wife has a friend that was born and raised in Norway. She came to the US 
at 18, learned English on her own, and graduated with a Master's degree. 
She talks about how many of the news stories in the US are just plain BS.


Things like the US is ranked number whatever in terms of education or 
work ethic or whatever... she says once you get outside of the US, it's 
a totally different picture, and that the US really is leading the way 
in many, many things. All the European countries look up the US and want 
to be like the US, according to her.


Why are all the greatest technology companies located in the US if we 
aren't even in the top 10 of this "list"?? Start naming all the tech 
companies and see how many are located in the US:  Apple, Google, 
Facebook, Instagram, Snap, Twitter, Motorola, Intel, AMD, HP, Dell, 
Amazon, Tesla, Uber, IBM, Microsoft, Cisco, Oracle, Xerox, eBay, Paypal, 
and the list goes on and on.


Travis

On 10/6/2016 9:09 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:


Side note, the US is not even close to being the most educated country 
in the world - we don't even make the top 10.



On Oct 6, 2016 10:07 AM, "Josh Reynolds" > wrote:


You've formed this narrative in your head and on this list that
overvalues the importance of the US market, is ignorant of the
popularity of android ROMs, ignores years of market data, and
doesn't seem to have a firm grasp on how the internet and
companies in the modern age work. These SuperOrganisms are very,
very global.

I don't disagree that apple is focused around providing an
immersive, easy to use, visually pleasing experience for their end
users - they are excellent at that. In the process, there are
tradeoffs.

My phone for me is a tool. I need to be able to check on servers,
modify applications, control upgrades, monitor routers and
switches, call people over LTE and SIP, and use apps that encrypt
my phone and communications to meet the requirements of my
clients. I can do all of that with my android phones easily,
without fumbling around. It is a tool. Its a quadcore
microcomputer with multiple types of network connectivity
(including several radios), GPU, storage options, etc. If I can't
do what I need to or want to on it, then it's not valuable to me.
To me, apple products are useless - they don't meet my needs.

Apple products do meet the needs of many, though.


On Oct 6, 2016 9:53 AM, "Travis Johnson" > wrote:

You obviously didn't read my message... my point was, in the
US market, which is the "most educated, most advanced" country
in the world, Apple has a 44% marketshare... almost double of
the 2nd place phone.

We can talk "Android" use vs IOS use, but anyone can build and
GIVE AWAY an Operating System... just like starting a company
that you don't have to make a profit... anyone can do that.  :)

Travis

On 10/5/2016 7:55 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:


You have a strong opinion, but it is poorly formed. Apple has
a decent take in the US market, but that's a small percentage
of the overall pie. That's slated to slide more away from
Apple given current trends.

2nd quarter of this year Android was at 86.2% global
smartphone share, and Apple is losing ground quarter after
quarter.


https://techcrunch.com/2016/08/18/gartner-androids-smartphone-marketshare-hit-86-2-in-q2/



87.6 once more results were in:
http://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-os-market-share.jsp


You're entitled to your opinion though, by all means.


On Oct 5, 2016 8:24 PM, "Travis Johnson" > wrote:

Actually, Apple is the top smartphone in the US... nobody
cares about the rest of the world... they have 44%
marketshare in the US. You know, the country where every
real Internet and tech company is located... Apple,
Intel, Facebook, Instagram, Amazon, Google, etc.

Take your pick of Android phone... their screen responses
all suck compared to an iPhone. :)

Travis


On 10/5/2016 6:02 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

It was not me that said that.

I don't buy Apple products. Period. I would not get
an Apple product if it were free.

And there is good reason that most of 

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Mike Hammett]

I never pretended to be typical or normal. I did reference "simple shit" users 
in my last message. 

As a tool, the iPhone is much more limited than Android platforms. As a fashion 
accessory, it's excellent. I'm not even sure how a technically inclined person 
can use an iPhone. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2016 10:29:44 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple 



You people who brag about first thing you do is jailbreaking and rooting, 
that’s great for you, but that’s hardly the typical cellphone customer. 

That’s the problem with discussing a mass market device on a list like this. I 
remember from the Marketing 101 course I had to take in business school, the 
professor said remember, your target market is not people like you. This goes 
double for techies. Think of the boys on Big Bang Theory designing their killer 
app to recognize equations,  certainly that’s something everyone needs 
. 

Even on this list, can I be the only person who views my phone as just a tool 
like a drill or wrench? I don’t want to modify it, I just want it to make calls 
and run apps. My phone is not a hobby. Is it too much to ask that a phone be 
useful with the factory software? 




From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2016 9:52 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple 


Text messaging hardly counts as heavy usage. It's a single, low impact app. 

If you upgrade once a year, you never have had the device long enough to need 
to reset it to factory. If they're so great, why are you replacing them so 
often? 

Of course if you think texting is heavy usage, you've never found a need to do 
more with your phone (like jailbreaking or rooting). I root immediately for 
better control over and information from the radios, for one. That's not even 
possible on Apple. 

For a "simple shit" user, there is no major difference between an iPhone and a 
mainstream Galaxy S or an iPad and a Galaxy Tab. All four do Chrome, Facebook 
and Instagram. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -


From: "Travis Johnson" < t...@ida.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2016 9:45:10 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple 

I agree that your phone probably works "very, very well"... but you said 
yourself you have never used an Apple product... so what are you 
comparing to? I've had an iPhone since the very first model. I'm not a 
"wait in line for days" to buy the latest and greatest model, but I do 
upgrade about once a year. During the last 8-9 years, I've never had a 
single issue with the phones... never had to "restore" or "reset to 
factory" or do any of those other things. I've never had to hack or 
jailbreak or do any other things to my phones. During my biggest month 
of usage, I sent and received over 15,000 text messages, so the phone 
gets used. 

I have used an Android phone... and it was clunky and just not as "user 
friendly" in general. I also have several Android tablets, and they are 
the same way... especially compared to my wife's new iPad Pro, which is 
an amazing piece of equipment. :) 

Travis 


On 10/5/2016 8:04 PM, Bill Prince wrote: 
> You realize that the US represents about 5% of the world population. 
> Maybe you don't care about the other 95%, but you would be a small 
> minority. 
> 
> And I don't agree about screen response. My Android phone works very, 
> very well. 
> 
> 
> bp 
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> 
> 
> On 10/5/2016 6:24 PM, Travis Johnson wrote: 
>> Actually, Apple is the top smartphone in the US... nobody cares about 
>> the rest of the world... they have 44% marketshare in the US. You 
>> know, the country where every real Internet and tech company is 
>> located... Apple, Intel, Facebook, Instagram, Amazon, Google, etc. 
>> 
>> Take your pick of Android phone... their screen responses all suck 
>> compared to an iPhone. :) 
>> 
>> Travis 
>> 
>> 
>> On 10/5/2016 6:02 PM, Bill Prince wrote: 
>>> It was not me that said that. 
>>> 
>>> I don't buy Apple products. Period. I would not get an Apple product 
>>> if it were free. 
>>> 
>>> And there is good reason that most of the people on the planet use a 
>>> smartphone other than theirs. 
>>> 
>>> And a Samsung smartphone is not real Android, so that is a piss poor 
>>> comparison. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> bp 
>>> <

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Ken Hohhof]

You people who brag about first thing you  do is jailbreaking and rooting, 
that’s great for you, but that’s hardly the typical cellphone customer.

 

That’s the problem with discussing a mass market device on a list like this.  I 
remember from the Marketing 101 course I had to take in business school, the 
professor said remember, your target market is not people like you.  This goes 
double for techies.  Think of the boys on Big Bang Theory designing their 
killer app to recognize equations,  certainly that’s something 
everyone needs .

 

Even on this list, can I be the only person who views my phone as just a tool 
like a drill or wrench?  I don’t want to modify it, I just want it to make 
calls and run apps.  My phone is not a hobby.  Is it too much to ask that a 
phone be useful with the factory software?

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2016 9:52 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

 

Text messaging hardly counts as heavy usage. It's a single, low impact app.

If you upgrade once a year, you never have had the device long enough to need 
to reset it to factory. If they're so great, why are you replacing them so 
often?

Of course if you think texting is heavy usage, you've never found a need to do 
more with your phone (like jailbreaking or rooting). I root immediately for 
better control over and information from the radios, for one. That's not even 
possible on Apple.

For a "simple shit" user, there is no major difference between an iPhone and a 
mainstream Galaxy S or an iPad and a Galaxy Tab. All four do Chrome, Facebook 
and Instagram.



-
Mike Hammett
 <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>  
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 
 <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>  
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> 
 <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP
 <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>  
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> 




  _  

From: "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net <mailto:t...@ida.net> >
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 
Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2016 9:45:10 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

I agree that your phone probably works "very, very well"... but you said 
yourself you have never used an Apple product... so what are you 
comparing to? I've had an iPhone since the very first model. I'm not a 
"wait in line for days" to buy the latest and greatest model, but I do 
upgrade about once a year. During the last 8-9 years, I've never had a 
single issue with the phones... never had to "restore" or "reset to 
factory" or do any of those other things. I've never had to hack or 
jailbreak or do any other things to my phones. During my biggest month 
of usage, I sent and received over 15,000 text messages, so the phone 
gets used.

I have used an Android phone... and it was clunky and just not as "user 
friendly" in general. I also have several Android tablets, and they are 
the same way... especially compared to my wife's new iPad Pro, which is 
an amazing piece of equipment. :)

Travis


On 10/5/2016 8:04 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
> You realize that the US represents about 5% of the world population. 
> Maybe you don't care about the other 95%, but you would be a small 
> minority.
>
> And I don't agree about screen response. My Android phone works very, 
> very well.
>
>
> bp
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>
> On 10/5/2016 6:24 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>> Actually, Apple is the top smartphone in the US... nobody cares about 
>> the rest of the world... they have 44% marketshare in the US. You 
>> know, the country where every real Internet and tech company is 
>> located... Apple, Intel, Facebook, Instagram, Amazon, Google, etc.
>>
>> Take your pick of Android phone... their screen responses all suck 
>> compared to an iPhone. :)
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>> On 10/5/2016 6:02 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>> It was not me that said that.
>>>
>>> I don't buy Apple products. Period. I would not get an Apple product 
>>> if it were free.
>>>
>>> And there is good reason that most of the people on the planet use a 
>>> smartphone other than theirs.
>>>
>>> And a Samsung smartphone is not real Android, so that is a piss poor 
>>> comparison.
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Josh Reynolds]

Side note, the US is not even close to being the most educated country in
the world - we don't even make the top 10.

On Oct 6, 2016 10:07 AM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:

> You've formed this narrative in your head and on this list that overvalues
> the importance of the US market, is ignorant of the popularity of android
> ROMs, ignores years of market data, and doesn't seem to have a firm grasp
> on how the internet and companies in the modern age work. These
> SuperOrganisms are very, very global.
>
> I don't disagree that apple is focused around providing an immersive, easy
> to use, visually pleasing experience for their end users - they are
> excellent at that. In the process, there are tradeoffs.
>
> My phone for me is a tool. I need to be able to check on servers, modify
> applications, control upgrades, monitor routers and switches, call people
> over LTE and SIP, and use apps that encrypt my phone and communications to
> meet the requirements of my clients. I can do all of that with my android
> phones easily, without fumbling around. It is a tool. Its a quadcore
> microcomputer with multiple types of network connectivity (including
> several radios), GPU, storage options, etc. If I can't do what I need to or
> want to on it, then it's not valuable to me. To me, apple products are
> useless - they don't meet my needs.
>
> Apple products do meet the needs of many, though.
>
> On Oct 6, 2016 9:53 AM, "Travis Johnson"  wrote:
>
>> You obviously didn't read my message... my point was, in the US market,
>> which is the "most educated, most advanced" country in the world, Apple has
>> a 44% marketshare... almost double of the 2nd place phone.
>>
>> We can talk "Android" use vs IOS use, but anyone can build and GIVE AWAY
>> an Operating System... just like starting a company that you don't have to
>> make a profit... anyone can do that.  :)
>>
>> Travis
>>
>> On 10/5/2016 7:55 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>
>> You have a strong opinion, but it is poorly formed. Apple has a decent
>> take in the US market, but that's a small percentage of the overall pie.
>> That's slated to slide more away from Apple given current trends.
>>
>> 2nd quarter of this year Android was at 86.2% global smartphone share,
>> and Apple is losing ground quarter after quarter.
>>
>> https://techcrunch.com/2016/08/18/gartner-androids-smartphon
>> e-marketshare-hit-86-2-in-q2/
>>
>> 87.6 once more results were in:
>> http://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-os-market-share.jsp
>>
>> You're entitled to your opinion though, by all means.
>>
>> On Oct 5, 2016 8:24 PM, "Travis Johnson"  wrote:
>>
>>> Actually, Apple is the top smartphone in the US... nobody cares about
>>> the rest of the world... they have 44% marketshare in the US. You know, the
>>> country where every real Internet and tech company is located... Apple,
>>> Intel, Facebook, Instagram, Amazon, Google, etc.
>>>
>>> Take your pick of Android phone... their screen responses all suck
>>> compared to an iPhone. :)
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/5/2016 6:02 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>>
 It was not me that said that.

 I don't buy Apple products. Period. I would not get an Apple product if
 it were free.

 And there is good reason that most of the people on the planet use a
 smartphone other than theirs.

 And a Samsung smartphone is not real Android, so that is a piss poor
 comparison.


 bp
 

 On 10/5/2016 3:30 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:

> Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some people drive
> a Chevy, some people drive a BMW.
>
> I think it was you that even said "If the price was the same, everyone
> would be using an iPhone"... which I honestly believe. I have used a brand
> new Samsung phone with Android, and the first thing I noticed is that the
> screen response is not the same as an iPhone
>



>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Josh Reynolds]

You've formed this narrative in your head and on this list that overvalues
the importance of the US market, is ignorant of the popularity of android
ROMs, ignores years of market data, and doesn't seem to have a firm grasp
on how the internet and companies in the modern age work. These
SuperOrganisms are very, very global.

I don't disagree that apple is focused around providing an immersive, easy
to use, visually pleasing experience for their end users - they are
excellent at that. In the process, there are tradeoffs.

My phone for me is a tool. I need to be able to check on servers, modify
applications, control upgrades, monitor routers and switches, call people
over LTE and SIP, and use apps that encrypt my phone and communications to
meet the requirements of my clients. I can do all of that with my android
phones easily, without fumbling around. It is a tool. Its a quadcore
microcomputer with multiple types of network connectivity (including
several radios), GPU, storage options, etc. If I can't do what I need to or
want to on it, then it's not valuable to me. To me, apple products are
useless - they don't meet my needs.

Apple products do meet the needs of many, though.

On Oct 6, 2016 9:53 AM, "Travis Johnson"  wrote:

> You obviously didn't read my message... my point was, in the US market,
> which is the "most educated, most advanced" country in the world, Apple has
> a 44% marketshare... almost double of the 2nd place phone.
>
> We can talk "Android" use vs IOS use, but anyone can build and GIVE AWAY
> an Operating System... just like starting a company that you don't have to
> make a profit... anyone can do that.  :)
>
> Travis
>
> On 10/5/2016 7:55 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>
> You have a strong opinion, but it is poorly formed. Apple has a decent
> take in the US market, but that's a small percentage of the overall pie.
> That's slated to slide more away from Apple given current trends.
>
> 2nd quarter of this year Android was at 86.2% global smartphone share, and
> Apple is losing ground quarter after quarter.
>
> https://techcrunch.com/2016/08/18/gartner-androids-
> smartphone-marketshare-hit-86-2-in-q2/
>
> 87.6 once more results were in:
> http://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-os-market-share.jsp
>
> You're entitled to your opinion though, by all means.
>
> On Oct 5, 2016 8:24 PM, "Travis Johnson"  wrote:
>
>> Actually, Apple is the top smartphone in the US... nobody cares about the
>> rest of the world... they have 44% marketshare in the US. You know, the
>> country where every real Internet and tech company is located... Apple,
>> Intel, Facebook, Instagram, Amazon, Google, etc.
>>
>> Take your pick of Android phone... their screen responses all suck
>> compared to an iPhone. :)
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>> On 10/5/2016 6:02 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>
>>> It was not me that said that.
>>>
>>> I don't buy Apple products. Period. I would not get an Apple product if
>>> it were free.
>>>
>>> And there is good reason that most of the people on the planet use a
>>> smartphone other than theirs.
>>>
>>> And a Samsung smartphone is not real Android, so that is a piss poor
>>> comparison.
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>> On 10/5/2016 3:30 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>>>
 Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some people drive
 a Chevy, some people drive a BMW.

 I think it was you that even said "If the price was the same, everyone
 would be using an iPhone"... which I honestly believe. I have used a brand
 new Samsung phone with Android, and the first thing I noticed is that the
 screen response is not the same as an iPhone

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Stefan Englhardt]

The experience heavily depends on what you are used to. I had Apple products 
and use Android now. A Android user fetching an iPhone/iPad is missing a back 
button immediately and feels uncomfortable. Same with notifications. Apple 
copied a lot of this stuff as it was missing a long time.

The apple products I used (iPad1,2,Air) are very well built and long lasting.

With the different Flavors of android there are differences between devices. 
Samsung now starts the camera on double tapping the home button while with 
older samsungs this started s-voice. Some have seperate Camera Buttons ... 
Apple is more consistent but you cant select ...

My main reason not to buy apple ist the pricing. A smartphone is a tool that 
may be dropped and killed. So it makes a difference if I drop $1000 or $400. 
And I like the amoled screens from samsung very much. Now I have a S6 edge 
which even the apple fans I know praise for the design. You ever used QI? Great 
feature. I just drop my phone and it gets powered. The phone rings while 
powered. I just take it.


> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag von Travis Johnson
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 6. Oktober 2016 16:45
> An: af@afmug.com
> Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple
>
> I agree that your phone probably works "very, very well"... but you said 
> yourself
> you have never used an Apple product... so what are you comparing to? I've
> had an iPhone since the very first model. I'm not a "wait in line for days" 
> to buy
> the latest and greatest model, but I do upgrade about once a year. During the
> last 8-9 years, I've never had a single issue with the phones... never had to
> "restore" or "reset to factory" or do any of those other things. I've never 
> had to
> hack or jailbreak or do any other things to my phones. During my biggest
> month of usage, I sent and received over 15,000 text messages, so the phone
> gets used.
>
> I have used an Android phone... and it was clunky and just not as "user 
> friendly"
> in general. I also have several Android tablets, and they are the same way...
> especially compared to my wife's new iPad Pro, which is an amazing piece of
> equipment. :)
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 10/5/2016 8:04 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
> > You realize that the US represents about 5% of the world population.
> > Maybe you don't care about the other 95%, but you would be a small
> > minority.
> >
> > And I don't agree about screen response. My Android phone works very,
> > very well.
> >
> >
> > bp
> > <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
> >
> > On 10/5/2016 6:24 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
> >> Actually, Apple is the top smartphone in the US... nobody cares about
> >> the rest of the world... they have 44% marketshare in the US. You
> >> know, the country where every real Internet and tech company is
> >> located... Apple, Intel, Facebook, Instagram, Amazon, Google, etc.
> >>
> >> Take your pick of Android phone... their screen responses all suck
> >> compared to an iPhone. :)
> >>
> >> Travis
> >>
> >>
> >> On 10/5/2016 6:02 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
> >>> It was not me that said that.
> >>>
> >>> I don't buy Apple products. Period. I would not get an Apple product
> >>> if it were free.
> >>>
> >>> And there is good reason that most of the people on the planet use a
> >>> smartphone other than theirs.
> >>>
> >>> And a Samsung smartphone is not real Android, so that is a piss poor
> >>> comparison.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> bp
> >>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
> >>>
> >>> On 10/5/2016 3:30 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
> >>>> Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some people
> >>>> drive a Chevy, some people drive a BMW.
> >>>>
> >>>> I think it was you that even said "If the price was the same,
> >>>> everyone would be using an iPhone"... which I honestly believe. I
> >>>> have used a brand new Samsung phone with Android, and the first
> >>>> thing I noticed is that the screen response is not the same as an
> >>>> iPhone
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Eric Muehleisen]

Why all the anger? It's simply personal preference. Apple has a closed
ecosystem. The hardware is tailored to a specific OS and vice-versa. They
have full control. This is the reason Apple will always have speed and
efficiency advantages. It should go without saying.

Android is an OS built to work for hundreds of different hardware
configurations. I find that to be very impressive that it works as well as
it does. I think everyone understands the distinction between the two
platforms and know what to expect. The argument and comparisons between the
two is getting old. Each is a great product in their own right.

To get back to the original subject line. I do agree. Google understands
they can make a better product if they have more control over the hardware.
I don't think anyone can dispute Google intentions in this particular case.

On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 9:53 AM, Travis Johnson  wrote:

> You obviously didn't read my message... my point was, in the US market,
> which is the "most educated, most advanced" country in the world, Apple has
> a 44% marketshare... almost double of the 2nd place phone.
>
> We can talk "Android" use vs IOS use, but anyone can build and GIVE AWAY
> an Operating System... just like starting a company that you don't have to
> make a profit... anyone can do that.  :)
>
> Travis
>
> On 10/5/2016 7:55 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>
> You have a strong opinion, but it is poorly formed. Apple has a decent
> take in the US market, but that's a small percentage of the overall pie.
> That's slated to slide more away from Apple given current trends.
>
> 2nd quarter of this year Android was at 86.2% global smartphone share, and
> Apple is losing ground quarter after quarter.
>
> https://techcrunch.com/2016/08/18/gartner-androids-
> smartphone-marketshare-hit-86-2-in-q2/
>
> 87.6 once more results were in:
> http://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-os-market-share.jsp
>
> You're entitled to your opinion though, by all means.
>
> On Oct 5, 2016 8:24 PM, "Travis Johnson"  wrote:
>
>> Actually, Apple is the top smartphone in the US... nobody cares about the
>> rest of the world... they have 44% marketshare in the US. You know, the
>> country where every real Internet and tech company is located... Apple,
>> Intel, Facebook, Instagram, Amazon, Google, etc.
>>
>> Take your pick of Android phone... their screen responses all suck
>> compared to an iPhone. :)
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>> On 10/5/2016 6:02 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>
>>> It was not me that said that.
>>>
>>> I don't buy Apple products. Period. I would not get an Apple product if
>>> it were free.
>>>
>>> And there is good reason that most of the people on the planet use a
>>> smartphone other than theirs.
>>>
>>> And a Samsung smartphone is not real Android, so that is a piss poor
>>> comparison.
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>> On 10/5/2016 3:30 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>>>
 Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some people drive
 a Chevy, some people drive a BMW.

 I think it was you that even said "If the price was the same, everyone
 would be using an iPhone"... which I honestly believe. I have used a brand
 new Samsung phone with Android, and the first thing I noticed is that the
 screen response is not the same as an iPhone

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Travis Johnson]

You obviously didn't read my message... my point was, in the US market, 
which is the "most educated, most advanced" country in the world, Apple 
has a 44% marketshare... almost double of the 2nd place phone.


We can talk "Android" use vs IOS use, but anyone can build and GIVE AWAY 
an Operating System... just like starting a company that you don't have 
to make a profit... anyone can do that.  :)


Travis

On 10/5/2016 7:55 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:


You have a strong opinion, but it is poorly formed. Apple has a decent 
take in the US market, but that's a small percentage of the overall 
pie. That's slated to slide more away from Apple given current trends.


2nd quarter of this year Android was at 86.2% global smartphone share, 
and Apple is losing ground quarter after quarter.


https://techcrunch.com/2016/08/18/gartner-androids-smartphone-marketshare-hit-86-2-in-q2/

87.6 once more results were in:
http://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-os-market-share.jsp

You're entitled to your opinion though, by all means.


On Oct 5, 2016 8:24 PM, "Travis Johnson" > wrote:


Actually, Apple is the top smartphone in the US... nobody cares
about the rest of the world... they have 44% marketshare in the
US. You know, the country where every real Internet and tech
company is located... Apple, Intel, Facebook, Instagram, Amazon,
Google, etc.

Take your pick of Android phone... their screen responses all suck
compared to an iPhone. :)

Travis


On 10/5/2016 6:02 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

It was not me that said that.

I don't buy Apple products. Period. I would not get an Apple
product if it were free.

And there is good reason that most of the people on the planet
use a smartphone other than theirs.

And a Samsung smartphone is not real Android, so that is a
piss poor comparison.


bp


On 10/5/2016 3:30 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:

Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some
people drive a Chevy, some people drive a BMW.

I think it was you that even said "If the price was the
same, everyone would be using an iPhone"... which I
honestly believe. I have used a brand new Samsung phone
with Android, and the first thing I noticed is that the
screen response is not the same as an iPhone

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Mike Hammett]

Can JitterBugs text? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Luthman" <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2016 9:48:52 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple 


Why not just use a Tracfone if all you need to do is 15k text messages? 






Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 

On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 10:45 AM, Travis Johnson < t...@ida.net > wrote: 


I agree that your phone probably works "very, very well"... but you said 
yourself you have never used an Apple product... so what are you comparing to? 
I've had an iPhone since the very first model. I'm not a "wait in line for 
days" to buy the latest and greatest model, but I do upgrade about once a year. 
During the last 8-9 years, I've never had a single issue with the phones... 
never had to "restore" or "reset to factory" or do any of those other things. 
I've never had to hack or jailbreak or do any other things to my phones. During 
my biggest month of usage, I sent and received over 15,000 text messages, so 
the phone gets used. 

I have used an Android phone... and it was clunky and just not as "user 
friendly" in general. I also have several Android tablets, and they are the 
same way... especially compared to my wife's new iPad Pro, which is an amazing 
piece of equipment. :) 

Travis 


On 10/5/2016 8:04 PM, Bill Prince wrote: 


You realize that the US represents about 5% of the world population. Maybe you 
don't care about the other 95%, but you would be a small minority. 

And I don't agree about screen response. My Android phone works very, very 
well. 


bp 
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> 

On 10/5/2016 6:24 PM, Travis Johnson wrote: 


Actually, Apple is the top smartphone in the US... nobody cares about the rest 
of the world... they have 44% marketshare in the US. You know, the country 
where every real Internet and tech company is located... Apple, Intel, 
Facebook, Instagram, Amazon, Google, etc. 

Take your pick of Android phone... their screen responses all suck compared to 
an iPhone. :) 

Travis 


On 10/5/2016 6:02 PM, Bill Prince wrote: 


It was not me that said that. 

I don't buy Apple products. Period. I would not get an Apple product if it were 
free. 

And there is good reason that most of the people on the planet use a smartphone 
other than theirs. 

And a Samsung smartphone is not real Android, so that is a piss poor 
comparison. 


bp 
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> 

On 10/5/2016 3:30 PM, Travis Johnson wrote: 


Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some people drive a Chevy, 
some people drive a BMW. 

I think it was you that even said "If the price was the same, everyone would be 
using an iPhone"... which I honestly believe. I have used a brand new Samsung 
phone with Android, and the first thing I noticed is that the screen response 
is not the same as an iPhone 

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Mike Hammett]

Text messaging hardly counts as heavy usage. It's a single, low impact app. 

If you upgrade once a year, you never have had the device long enough to need 
to reset it to factory. If they're so great, why are you replacing them so 
often? 

Of course if you think texting is heavy usage, you've never found a need to do 
more with your phone (like jailbreaking or rooting). I root immediately for 
better control over and information from the radios, for one. That's not even 
possible on Apple. 

For a "simple shit" user, there is no major difference between an iPhone and a 
mainstream Galaxy S or an iPad and a Galaxy Tab. All four do Chrome, Facebook 
and Instagram. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2016 9:45:10 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple 

I agree that your phone probably works "very, very well"... but you said 
yourself you have never used an Apple product... so what are you 
comparing to? I've had an iPhone since the very first model. I'm not a 
"wait in line for days" to buy the latest and greatest model, but I do 
upgrade about once a year. During the last 8-9 years, I've never had a 
single issue with the phones... never had to "restore" or "reset to 
factory" or do any of those other things. I've never had to hack or 
jailbreak or do any other things to my phones. During my biggest month 
of usage, I sent and received over 15,000 text messages, so the phone 
gets used. 

I have used an Android phone... and it was clunky and just not as "user 
friendly" in general. I also have several Android tablets, and they are 
the same way... especially compared to my wife's new iPad Pro, which is 
an amazing piece of equipment. :) 

Travis 


On 10/5/2016 8:04 PM, Bill Prince wrote: 
> You realize that the US represents about 5% of the world population. 
> Maybe you don't care about the other 95%, but you would be a small 
> minority. 
> 
> And I don't agree about screen response. My Android phone works very, 
> very well. 
> 
> 
> bp 
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> 
> 
> On 10/5/2016 6:24 PM, Travis Johnson wrote: 
>> Actually, Apple is the top smartphone in the US... nobody cares about 
>> the rest of the world... they have 44% marketshare in the US. You 
>> know, the country where every real Internet and tech company is 
>> located... Apple, Intel, Facebook, Instagram, Amazon, Google, etc. 
>> 
>> Take your pick of Android phone... their screen responses all suck 
>> compared to an iPhone. :) 
>> 
>> Travis 
>> 
>> 
>> On 10/5/2016 6:02 PM, Bill Prince wrote: 
>>> It was not me that said that. 
>>> 
>>> I don't buy Apple products. Period. I would not get an Apple product 
>>> if it were free. 
>>> 
>>> And there is good reason that most of the people on the planet use a 
>>> smartphone other than theirs. 
>>> 
>>> And a Samsung smartphone is not real Android, so that is a piss poor 
>>> comparison. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> bp 
>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> 
>>> 
>>> On 10/5/2016 3:30 PM, Travis Johnson wrote: 
>>>> Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some people 
>>>> drive a Chevy, some people drive a BMW. 
>>>> 
>>>> I think it was you that even said "If the price was the same, 
>>>> everyone would be using an iPhone"... which I honestly believe. I 
>>>> have used a brand new Samsung phone with Android, and the first 
>>>> thing I noticed is that the screen response is not the same as an 
>>>> iPhone 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Josh Luthman]

Why not just use a Tracfone if all you need to do is 15k text messages?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 10:45 AM, Travis Johnson  wrote:

> I agree that your phone probably works "very, very well"... but you said
> yourself you have never used an Apple product... so what are you comparing
> to? I've had an iPhone since the very first model. I'm not a "wait in line
> for days" to buy the latest and greatest model, but I do upgrade about once
> a year. During the last 8-9 years, I've never had a single issue with the
> phones... never had to "restore" or "reset to factory" or do any of those
> other things. I've never had to hack or jailbreak or do any other things to
> my phones. During my biggest month of usage, I sent and received over
> 15,000 text messages, so the phone gets used.
>
> I have used an Android phone... and it was clunky and just not as "user
> friendly" in general. I also have several Android tablets, and they are the
> same way... especially compared to my wife's new iPad Pro, which is an
> amazing piece of equipment. :)
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 10/5/2016 8:04 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
>> You realize that the US represents about 5% of the world population.
>> Maybe you don't care about the other 95%, but you would be a small minority.
>>
>> And I don't agree about screen response. My Android phone works very,
>> very well.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 10/5/2016 6:24 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>>
>>> Actually, Apple is the top smartphone in the US... nobody cares about
>>> the rest of the world... they have 44% marketshare in the US. You know, the
>>> country where every real Internet and tech company is located... Apple,
>>> Intel, Facebook, Instagram, Amazon, Google, etc.
>>>
>>> Take your pick of Android phone... their screen responses all suck
>>> compared to an iPhone. :)
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/5/2016 6:02 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>>
 It was not me that said that.

 I don't buy Apple products. Period. I would not get an Apple product if
 it were free.

 And there is good reason that most of the people on the planet use a
 smartphone other than theirs.

 And a Samsung smartphone is not real Android, so that is a piss poor
 comparison.


 bp
 

 On 10/5/2016 3:30 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:

> Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some people drive
> a Chevy, some people drive a BMW.
>
> I think it was you that even said "If the price was the same, everyone
> would be using an iPhone"... which I honestly believe. I have used a brand
> new Samsung phone with Android, and the first thing I noticed is that the
> screen response is not the same as an iPhone
>



>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Travis Johnson]

I agree that your phone probably works "very, very well"... but you said 
yourself you have never used an Apple product... so what are you 
comparing to? I've had an iPhone since the very first model. I'm not a 
"wait in line for days" to buy the latest and greatest model, but I do 
upgrade about once a year. During the last 8-9 years, I've never had a 
single issue with the phones... never had to "restore" or "reset to 
factory" or do any of those other things. I've never had to hack or 
jailbreak or do any other things to my phones. During my biggest month 
of usage, I sent and received over 15,000 text messages, so the phone 
gets used.


I have used an Android phone... and it was clunky and just not as "user 
friendly" in general. I also have several Android tablets, and they are 
the same way... especially compared to my wife's new iPad Pro, which is 
an amazing piece of equipment. :)


Travis


On 10/5/2016 8:04 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
You realize that the US represents about 5% of the world population. 
Maybe you don't care about the other 95%, but you would be a small 
minority.


And I don't agree about screen response. My Android phone works very, 
very well.



bp


On 10/5/2016 6:24 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
Actually, Apple is the top smartphone in the US... nobody cares about 
the rest of the world... they have 44% marketshare in the US. You 
know, the country where every real Internet and tech company is 
located... Apple, Intel, Facebook, Instagram, Amazon, Google, etc.


Take your pick of Android phone... their screen responses all suck 
compared to an iPhone. :)


Travis


On 10/5/2016 6:02 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

It was not me that said that.

I don't buy Apple products. Period. I would not get an Apple product 
if it were free.


And there is good reason that most of the people on the planet use a 
smartphone other than theirs.


And a Samsung smartphone is not real Android, so that is a piss poor 
comparison.



bp


On 10/5/2016 3:30 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some people 
drive a Chevy, some people drive a BMW.


I think it was you that even said "If the price was the same, 
everyone would be using an iPhone"... which I honestly believe. I 
have used a brand new Samsung phone with Android, and the first 
thing I noticed is that the screen response is not the same as an 
iPhone

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Ken Hohhof]

Is it pink rose gold?

 

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 8:28 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

 

I use an iPhone (4) only  because it was given to me and I have never tried 
another smartphone.

It still  hurts my testosterone every time I use it.  Just because I like girls 
does not make me want to be one...

 

-Original Message-

From: Travis Johnson

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 7:24 PM

To:  <mailto:af@afmug.com> af@afmug.com

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

 

Actually, Apple is the top smartphone in the US... nobody cares about the rest 
of the world... they have 44% marketshare in the US. You know, the country 
where every real Internet and tech company is located...

Apple, Intel, Facebook, Instagram, Amazon, Google, etc.

 

Take your pick of Android phone... their screen responses all suck compared to 
an iPhone. :)

 

Travis

 

 

On 10/5/2016 6:02 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

> It was not me that said that.

> 

> I don't buy Apple products. Period. I would not get an Apple product 

> if it were free.

> 

> And there is good reason that most of the people on the planet use a 

> smartphone other than theirs.

> 

> And a Samsung smartphone is not real Android, so that is a piss poor 

> comparison.

> 

> 

> bp

> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

> 

> On 10/5/2016 3:30 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:

>> Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some people 

>> drive a Chevy, some people drive a BMW.

>> 

>> I think it was you that even said "If the price was the same, 

>> everyone would be using an iPhone"... which I honestly believe. I 

>> have used a brand new Samsung phone with Android, and the first thing 

>> I noticed is that the screen response is not the same as an iPhone

> 

> 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Robert]

"Has taken steps"  Like locking up the file system in the name of 
security...   Yep  Kinda like the Patriot Act...   Easier to lock stuff 
up for safety.  And then not making it easy for the owner to unlock it.. 
 Because...   ( Typed from my locked up Mac )...  But safer...


On 10/5/16 3:57 PM, Nathan Anderson wrote:

People also want their computers to work, period.  I'm not sure I see
the difference.  This device of mine that you call a "phone" is not
actually a phone.  That's a misnomer.  It is a pocket computer that
happens to have a phone app on it.



There are a lot of circumstances today where I used to carry a laptop,
but I now carry a phone SO THAT I don't have to carry a laptop with me.



The same kind of security model has been applied to so-called tablets,
which are basically touch-screen laptops without a keyboard on them, but
many of them can have a keyboard added if desired.  This is not a phone
vs. computer debate.  The form factor has little to do with the issue at
hand.  Apple has even made steps that hint at them trying to do similar
things to the Mac.  It may only be a matter of time until you can't even
use a laptop "to do whatever you want".



-- Nathan



*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Travis Johnson
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 05, 2016 3:51 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple



This literally made me laugh out loud... you realize this is less than
1% of 1% of the population? Why not just carry a laptop with you to do
whatever you want?

People just want their phones to work, period. They want to text,
Facebook, Snap, Instagram, and take pics. There are probably 1,000
people total that need to do what you are talking about with their
phones... that's a VERY small percentage. :)

Travis

On 10/5/2016 4:47 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:

Just the fact that Apple now hides the file system from the user and
makes it impossible to directly manipulate things is a deal breaker
for me. I can understand why they did it, to stop people from
shooting themselves in the foot.

But there a myriad of things I can do on a OnePlus One running
CyanogenMod that are impossible/restricted/locked down on an iPhone.
With the right GUI tools and Termux a cyanogenmod phone is very
close to a basic Linux shell system:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.termux=en



On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 3:42 PM, Nathan Anderson <nath...@fsr.com
<mailto:nath...@fsr.com>> wrote:

To some people, such as myself, openness matters as much as or more
than certain design aspects.  I used iPhones from 2008-2012 and did
enjoy them, but that was back when jailbreaking was more or less
mainstream.  The fact that I even had to jailbreak in the first
place, though, to use *my* phone the way that *I* wanted to bothered
me, and I switched to Android when Apple's code-signing BS got to be
too much and actually ended up screwing me over at one point.

I'm not saying that code-signing is bad...it is great from a
security standpoint for the average user.  But if somebody desires
to turn it off, there should be a way for the owner of the phone to
do so.  By all means, make it a difficult process so that the bar to
entry is high enough to dissuade the average user from doing so, but
make it *possible*.  Apple doesn't just use code-signing for
security, they also use it as a bludgeon with which to bully their
users.

So if there is one aspect where I hope Google did *not* copy Apple
in this endeavor, it is this.  The bootloader on the new phones
better darn well be unlockable by the user without the user having
to exploit a security vulnerability to do so.

-- Nathan


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>]
On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 3:31 PM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some people drive a
Chevy, some people drive a BMW.

I think it was you that even said "If the price was the same, everyone
would be using an iPhone"... which I honestly believe. I have used a
brand new Samsung phone with Android, and the first thing I noticed is
that the screen response is not the same as an iPhone... it's not as
smooth, or as refined. Yes, it works... it scrolls and it zooms and
resizes, just like a Chevy gets you from Point A to Point B... but if a
BMW was the same price as a Chevy, 99% of the population would be
driving BMW.

Just my thoughts. :)

Travis


On 10/5/2016 3:15 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
> I will point out (again) that 8 to 9 of 10 smartphones on the planet
> are Android. So while making it "eleg

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Bill Prince]

You realize that the US represents about 5% of the world population. 
Maybe you don't care about the other 95%, but you would be a small minority.


And I don't agree about screen response. My Android phone works very, 
very well.



bp


On 10/5/2016 6:24 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
Actually, Apple is the top smartphone in the US... nobody cares about 
the rest of the world... they have 44% marketshare in the US. You 
know, the country where every real Internet and tech company is 
located... Apple, Intel, Facebook, Instagram, Amazon, Google, etc.


Take your pick of Android phone... their screen responses all suck 
compared to an iPhone. :)


Travis


On 10/5/2016 6:02 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

It was not me that said that.

I don't buy Apple products. Period. I would not get an Apple product 
if it were free.


And there is good reason that most of the people on the planet use a 
smartphone other than theirs.


And a Samsung smartphone is not real Android, so that is a piss poor 
comparison.



bp


On 10/5/2016 3:30 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some people 
drive a Chevy, some people drive a BMW.


I think it was you that even said "If the price was the same, 
everyone would be using an iPhone"... which I honestly believe. I 
have used a brand new Samsung phone with Android, and the first 
thing I noticed is that the screen response is not the same as an 
iPhone

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Eric Kuhnke]

The most amazing part about Android phones are the "mostly good enough"
models that sell for $50 to $60 a piece in developing nations. If you're a
person in Pakistan who makes a monthly salary in rupees equivalent to about
$250 or $300, you might buy a phone that costs $60.

These days it's a fairly decent thing with a MediaTek chipset that runs
Android 5.1 and has the full Play Store on it and can run 95% of the apps
that you and I run on our $350-650 phones.

This is how Android has >85% of worldwide market share. Apple does not care
about sub $100 or even sub $50 phones.



On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 6:55 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> You have a strong opinion, but it is poorly formed. Apple has a decent
> take in the US market, but that's a small percentage of the overall pie.
> That's slated to slide more away from Apple given current trends.
>
> 2nd quarter of this year Android was at 86.2% global smartphone share, and
> Apple is losing ground quarter after quarter.
>
> https://techcrunch.com/2016/08/18/gartner-androids-
> smartphone-marketshare-hit-86-2-in-q2/
>
> 87.6 once more results were in:
> http://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-os-market-share.jsp
>
> You're entitled to your opinion though, by all means.
>
> On Oct 5, 2016 8:24 PM, "Travis Johnson"  wrote:
>
>> Actually, Apple is the top smartphone in the US... nobody cares about the
>> rest of the world... they have 44% marketshare in the US. You know, the
>> country where every real Internet and tech company is located... Apple,
>> Intel, Facebook, Instagram, Amazon, Google, etc.
>>
>> Take your pick of Android phone... their screen responses all suck
>> compared to an iPhone. :)
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>> On 10/5/2016 6:02 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>
>>> It was not me that said that.
>>>
>>> I don't buy Apple products. Period. I would not get an Apple product if
>>> it were free.
>>>
>>> And there is good reason that most of the people on the planet use a
>>> smartphone other than theirs.
>>>
>>> And a Samsung smartphone is not real Android, so that is a piss poor
>>> comparison.
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>> On 10/5/2016 3:30 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>>>
 Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some people drive
 a Chevy, some people drive a BMW.

 I think it was you that even said "If the price was the same, everyone
 would be using an iPhone"... which I honestly believe. I have used a brand
 new Samsung phone with Android, and the first thing I noticed is that the
 screen response is not the same as an iPhone

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Nathan Anderson]

...see what I mean?  That's another great example: Google for "iPad 2" "iOS" 
and the top articles are things like "will iOS 9 make my iPad 2 usable again?"  
Haha.

It might not be *as* crappy if you were given the *option* and the *freedom* to 
downgrade to an older release that the hardware is more capable of running 
without falling on its face.  But it's Apple's way or the highway.

-- Nathan

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 6:51 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

My iPad 2 is nearly a useless piece of crap, even after restoring to factory.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com<mailto:af...@kwisp.com>>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 6:38:52 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple
I have only had Android phones myself, and my only experience with iOS is 
setting up Internet or email on the occasional iPad for customers.

I do feel the Android user interface is very primitive and should have evolved 
to be more user friendly by now.  It seems like all they care about is how many 
apps there are, the UI can suck.  Not having owned an iPhone, I don’t know if 
Apple does any better.  I know that OS X does not seem as easy and intuitive as 
everyone says it is.

The other thing I’ve found, since I’m using a 2+ year old Android phone, is 
they develop bugs, glitches and crashes over time.  It seems like once the 
hardware is 2 years old, it doesn’t matter if you get an Android update, it’s 
not going to work like when it was new, and they are going to push you to buy 
new hardware.  Whereas it seems Apple is more dedicated to the idea of no phone 
left behind.  They want you to upgrade, but they won’t turn your iPhone 5 into 
a useless piece of crap to force you to upgrade.

Microsoft has occasionally had religion about UI design, but then they go 
totally off the tracks.  Right click context sensitive menus were the greatest 
thing since sliced bread.  Windows 8 was the devil’s work.  Microsoft Office 
looks like it came from a totally different company.  But I got a major 
endorphin rush the first time I accidentally right-clicked on the Start button 
in Window 10.  I was like the Nazis opening the Ark … “it’s so beautiful!”


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 5:53 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

Apple has been copying Android interface design for several iPhone os versions 
now.

On Wednesday, October 5, 2016, Travis Johnson 
<t...@ida.net<mailto:t...@ida.net>> wrote:
https://techcrunch.com/2016/10/05/not-ok-google/

It's taken a while, many years, but Google has finally admitted that Apple had 
it right all along... you have to control the hardware AND software to have an 
awesome product. This was Steve Job's goal from the very beginning with the 
Macintosh... and now everyone else is finally understanding.

So now Google is copying everything Apple does... even down to the marketing 
materials.  Every commercial they run (along with Samsung and everyone else) is 
always "this is why our product is better than Apple". If a company really 
believes that, you don't have to make the direct comparison. LOL

"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" ~Charles Caleb Colton

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Josh Reynolds]

You have a strong opinion, but it is poorly formed. Apple has a decent take
in the US market, but that's a small percentage of the overall pie. That's
slated to slide more away from Apple given current trends.

2nd quarter of this year Android was at 86.2% global smartphone share, and
Apple is losing ground quarter after quarter.

https://techcrunch.com/2016/08/18/gartner-androids-smartphone-marketshare-hit-86-2-in-q2/

87.6 once more results were in:
http://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-os-market-share.jsp

You're entitled to your opinion though, by all means.

On Oct 5, 2016 8:24 PM, "Travis Johnson"  wrote:

> Actually, Apple is the top smartphone in the US... nobody cares about the
> rest of the world... they have 44% marketshare in the US. You know, the
> country where every real Internet and tech company is located... Apple,
> Intel, Facebook, Instagram, Amazon, Google, etc.
>
> Take your pick of Android phone... their screen responses all suck
> compared to an iPhone. :)
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 10/5/2016 6:02 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
>> It was not me that said that.
>>
>> I don't buy Apple products. Period. I would not get an Apple product if
>> it were free.
>>
>> And there is good reason that most of the people on the planet use a
>> smartphone other than theirs.
>>
>> And a Samsung smartphone is not real Android, so that is a piss poor
>> comparison.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 10/5/2016 3:30 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>>
>>> Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some people drive a
>>> Chevy, some people drive a BMW.
>>>
>>> I think it was you that even said "If the price was the same, everyone
>>> would be using an iPhone"... which I honestly believe. I have used a brand
>>> new Samsung phone with Android, and the first thing I noticed is that the
>>> screen response is not the same as an iPhone
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Mike Hammett]

My iPad 2 is nearly a useless piece of crap, even after restoring to factory. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 6:38:52 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple 



I have only had Android phones myself, and my only experience with iOS is 
setting up Internet or email on the occasional iPad for customers. 

I do feel the Android user interface is very primitive and should have evolved 
to be more user friendly by now. It seems like all they care about is how many 
apps there are, the UI can suck. Not having owned an iPhone, I don’t know if 
Apple does any better. I know that OS X does not seem as easy and intuitive as 
everyone says it is. 

The other thing I’ve found, since I’m using a 2+ year old Android phone, is 
they develop bugs, glitches and crashes over time. It seems like once the 
hardware is 2 years old, it doesn’t matter if you get an Android update, it’s 
not going to work like when it was new, and they are going to push you to buy 
new hardware. Whereas it seems Apple is more dedicated to the idea of no phone 
left behind. They want you to upgrade, but they won’t turn your iPhone 5 into a 
useless piece of crap to force you to upgrade. 

Microsoft has occasionally had religion about UI design, but then they go 
totally off the tracks. Right click context sensitive menus were the greatest 
thing since sliced bread. Windows 8 was the devil’s work. Microsoft Office 
looks like it came from a totally different company. But I got a major 
endorphin rush the first time I accidentally right-clicked on the Start button 
in Window 10. I was like the Nazis opening the Ark … “it’s so beautiful!” 


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jason McKemie 
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 5:53 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple 

Apple has been copying Android interface design for several iPhone os versions 
now. 

On Wednesday, October 5, 2016, Travis Johnson < t...@ida.net > wrote: 


https://techcrunch.com/2016/10/05/not-ok-google/ 

It's taken a while, many years, but Google has finally admitted that Apple had 
it right all along... you have to control the hardware AND software to have an 
awesome product. This was Steve Job's goal from the very beginning with the 
Macintosh... and now everyone else is finally understanding. 

So now Google is copying everything Apple does... even down to the marketing 
materials. Every commercial they run (along with Samsung and everyone else) is 
always "this is why our product is better than Apple". If a company really 
believes that, you don't have to make the direct comparison. LOL 

"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" ~Charles Caleb Colton 

Travis 

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Josh Reynolds]

HTC, Lenovo, and the OnePlus lineup are also very good. I hear BLU is as
well, but haven't tried one.

On Oct 5, 2016 6:52 PM, "Stefan Englhardt" <s...@genias.net> wrote:

> You have to buy the S line of Samsung to compare with Apple. These are
> very smooth despite they have to move more pixels due to better screens.
>
>  Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
> Von: Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net>
> Datum: 06.10.2016 00:30 (GMT+01:00)
> An: af@afmug.com
> Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Nathan Anderson]

On Wednesday, October 5, 2016, Ken Hohhof wrote:

> The other thing I’ve found, since I’m using a 2+ year old Android phone,
> is they develop bugs, glitches and crashes over time.  It seems like once
> the hardware is 2 years old, it doesn’t matter if you get an Android update,
> it’s not going to work like when it was new, and they are going to push you
> to buy new hardware.  Whereas it seems Apple is more dedicated to the idea
> of no phone left behind.  They want you to upgrade, but they won’t turn your
> iPhone 5 into a useless piece of crap to force you to upgrade.

Not so, my friend, not so.  People in the Apple camp make the same complaints.  
The "grass is greener" proverb was never more true...just Google "iPhone 4" + 
"iOS 7" to see for yourself...

In fact, the opposite complaint -- that a particular Android phone vendor 
decided to prematurely stop doing software updates for a particular model -- is 
more likely to come from within the Android camp.  There has certainly been 
plenty of ink spilled about that problem.

The key difference in my mind between the two platforms is that at least when 
an Android OS update craps up your phone, *you have the option to downgrade*.  
So you can go back to the way things were before, when things were at least 
working.  At that point, you can decide if you want to buy a new phone so that 
you can use the new software, or wait to see if another to-be-released update 
performs better once it is released.  But in the meantime, while you mull over 
the decision in front of you, you aren't left with a phone that barely works.  
Apple *actively prevents iOS downgrades* using their code-signing mechanism in 
the bootloader.  So assuming they even fix your problem -- performance or 
otherwise -- in a later version, while you are waiting for them to release that 
version, you are stuck using the buggy one.

And if your phone's manufacturer does decide to stop supporting your model (at 
which point the hardware is probably out of warranty anyway), and you want to 
load new software on it, then you're likely not out of options: grab one of the 
AOSP-based releases for your model and flash that instead.  It's likely to work 
better than the vendor's stock firmware anyway.

-- Nathan

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Josh Reynolds]

You'd be surprised at the number of cyanogenmod downloads alone.

As of March 2015, it was on over 50 million unique device IDs.

That's one ROM. There's thousands.

On Oct 5, 2016 5:50 PM, "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net> wrote:

> This literally made me laugh out loud... you realize this is less than 1%
> of 1% of the population? Why not just carry a laptop with you to do
> whatever you want?
>
> People just want their phones to work, period. They want to text,
> Facebook, Snap, Instagram, and take pics. There are probably 1,000 people
> total that need to do what you are talking about with their phones...
> that's a VERY small percentage. :)
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 10/5/2016 4:47 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
>
> Just the fact that Apple now hides the file system from the user and makes
> it impossible to directly manipulate things is a deal breaker for me. I can
> understand why they did it, to stop people from shooting themselves in the
> foot.
>
> But there a myriad of things I can do on a OnePlus One running CyanogenMod
> that are impossible/restricted/locked down on an iPhone. With the right GUI
> tools and Termux a cyanogenmod phone is very close to a basic Linux shell
> system:
>
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.termux=en
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 3:42 PM, Nathan Anderson <nath...@fsr.com> wrote:
>
>> To some people, such as myself, openness matters as much as or more than
>> certain design aspects.  I used iPhones from 2008-2012 and did enjoy them,
>> but that was back when jailbreaking was more or less mainstream.  The fact
>> that I even had to jailbreak in the first place, though, to use *my* phone
>> the way that *I* wanted to bothered me, and I switched to Android when
>> Apple's code-signing BS got to be too much and actually ended up screwing
>> me over at one point.
>>
>> I'm not saying that code-signing is bad...it is great from a security
>> standpoint for the average user.  But if somebody desires to turn it off,
>> there should be a way for the owner of the phone to do so.  By all means,
>> make it a difficult process so that the bar to entry is high enough to
>> dissuade the average user from doing so, but make it *possible*.  Apple
>> doesn't just use code-signing for security, they also use it as a bludgeon
>> with which to bully their users.
>>
>> So if there is one aspect where I hope Google did *not* copy Apple in
>> this endeavor, it is this.  The bootloader on the new phones better darn
>> well be unlockable by the user without the user having to exploit a
>> security vulnerability to do so.
>>
>> -- Nathan
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 3:31 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple
>>
>> Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some people drive a
>> Chevy, some people drive a BMW.
>>
>> I think it was you that even said "If the price was the same, everyone
>> would be using an iPhone"... which I honestly believe. I have used a
>> brand new Samsung phone with Android, and the first thing I noticed is
>> that the screen response is not the same as an iPhone... it's not as
>> smooth, or as refined. Yes, it works... it scrolls and it zooms and
>> resizes, just like a Chevy gets you from Point A to Point B... but if a
>> BMW was the same price as a Chevy, 99% of the population would be
>> driving BMW.
>>
>> Just my thoughts. :)
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>> On 10/5/2016 3:15 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>> > I will point out (again) that 8 to 9 of 10 smartphones on the planet
>> > are Android. So while making it "elegant" is important, it's probably
>> > more important to make it affordable.
>> >
>> > My Nexus phone is a damn fine phone, and I don't feel like I've been
>> > left out of anything at all.
>> >
>> >
>> > bp
>> > <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>> >
>> > On 10/5/2016 1:57 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>> >> https://techcrunch.com/2016/10/05/not-ok-google/
>> >>
>> >> It's taken a while, many years, but Google has finally admitted that
>> >> Apple had it right all along... you have to control the hardware AND
>> >> software to have an awesome product. This was Steve Job's goal from
>> >> the very beginning with the Macintosh... and now everyone else is
>> >> finally understanding.
>> >>
>> >> So now Google is copying everything Apple does... even down to the
>> >> marketing materials.  Every commercial they run (along with Samsung
>> >> and everyone else) is always "this is why our product is better than
>> >> Apple". If a company really believes that, you don't have to make the
>> >> direct comparison. LOL
>> >>
>> >> "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" ~Charles Caleb Colton
>> >>
>> >> Travis
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Josh Reynolds]

I use JuiceSSH. Give it a shot :)

On Oct 5, 2016 5:47 PM, "Eric Kuhnke" <eric.kuh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Just the fact that Apple now hides the file system from the user and makes
> it impossible to directly manipulate things is a deal breaker for me. I can
> understand why they did it, to stop people from shooting themselves in the
> foot.
>
> But there a myriad of things I can do on a OnePlus One running CyanogenMod
> that are impossible/restricted/locked down on an iPhone. With the right GUI
> tools and Termux a cyanogenmod phone is very close to a basic Linux shell
> system:
>
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.termux=en
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 3:42 PM, Nathan Anderson <nath...@fsr.com> wrote:
>
>> To some people, such as myself, openness matters as much as or more than
>> certain design aspects.  I used iPhones from 2008-2012 and did enjoy them,
>> but that was back when jailbreaking was more or less mainstream.  The fact
>> that I even had to jailbreak in the first place, though, to use *my* phone
>> the way that *I* wanted to bothered me, and I switched to Android when
>> Apple's code-signing BS got to be too much and actually ended up screwing
>> me over at one point.
>>
>> I'm not saying that code-signing is bad...it is great from a security
>> standpoint for the average user.  But if somebody desires to turn it off,
>> there should be a way for the owner of the phone to do so.  By all means,
>> make it a difficult process so that the bar to entry is high enough to
>> dissuade the average user from doing so, but make it *possible*.  Apple
>> doesn't just use code-signing for security, they also use it as a bludgeon
>> with which to bully their users.
>>
>> So if there is one aspect where I hope Google did *not* copy Apple in
>> this endeavor, it is this.  The bootloader on the new phones better darn
>> well be unlockable by the user without the user having to exploit a
>> security vulnerability to do so.
>>
>> -- Nathan
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 3:31 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple
>>
>> Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some people drive a
>> Chevy, some people drive a BMW.
>>
>> I think it was you that even said "If the price was the same, everyone
>> would be using an iPhone"... which I honestly believe. I have used a
>> brand new Samsung phone with Android, and the first thing I noticed is
>> that the screen response is not the same as an iPhone... it's not as
>> smooth, or as refined. Yes, it works... it scrolls and it zooms and
>> resizes, just like a Chevy gets you from Point A to Point B... but if a
>> BMW was the same price as a Chevy, 99% of the population would be
>> driving BMW.
>>
>> Just my thoughts. :)
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>> On 10/5/2016 3:15 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>> > I will point out (again) that 8 to 9 of 10 smartphones on the planet
>> > are Android. So while making it "elegant" is important, it's probably
>> > more important to make it affordable.
>> >
>> > My Nexus phone is a damn fine phone, and I don't feel like I've been
>> > left out of anything at all.
>> >
>> >
>> > bp
>> > <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>> >
>> > On 10/5/2016 1:57 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>> >> https://techcrunch.com/2016/10/05/not-ok-google/
>> >>
>> >> It's taken a while, many years, but Google has finally admitted that
>> >> Apple had it right all along... you have to control the hardware AND
>> >> software to have an awesome product. This was Steve Job's goal from
>> >> the very beginning with the Macintosh... and now everyone else is
>> >> finally understanding.
>> >>
>> >> So now Google is copying everything Apple does... even down to the
>> >> marketing materials.  Every commercial they run (along with Samsung
>> >> and everyone else) is always "this is why our product is better than
>> >> Apple". If a company really believes that, you don't have to make the
>> >> direct comparison. LOL
>> >>
>> >> "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" ~Charles Caleb Colton
>> >>
>> >> Travis
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Josh Reynolds]

Apple IOS cuts into a lot of the linuxy freedom I enjoy with my higher end
android phones. I always put a ROM on them anyway though, just for the sake
of being able to tweak/root the phone exactly as I want to.

On Oct 5, 2016 5:30 PM, "Travis Johnson"  wrote:

> Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some people drive a
> Chevy, some people drive a BMW.
>
> I think it was you that even said "If the price was the same, everyone
> would be using an iPhone"... which I honestly believe. I have used a brand
> new Samsung phone with Android, and the first thing I noticed is that the
> screen response is not the same as an iPhone... it's not as smooth, or as
> refined. Yes, it works... it scrolls and it zooms and resizes, just like a
> Chevy gets you from Point A to Point B... but if a BMW was the same price
> as a Chevy, 99% of the population would be driving BMW.
>
> Just my thoughts. :)
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 10/5/2016 3:15 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
>> I will point out (again) that 8 to 9 of 10 smartphones on the planet are
>> Android. So while making it "elegant" is important, it's probably more
>> important to make it affordable.
>>
>> My Nexus phone is a damn fine phone, and I don't feel like I've been left
>> out of anything at all.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 10/5/2016 1:57 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>>
>>> https://techcrunch.com/2016/10/05/not-ok-google/
>>>
>>> It's taken a while, many years, but Google has finally admitted that
>>> Apple had it right all along... you have to control the hardware AND
>>> software to have an awesome product. This was Steve Job's goal from the
>>> very beginning with the Macintosh... and now everyone else is finally
>>> understanding.
>>>
>>> So now Google is copying everything Apple does... even down to the
>>> marketing materials.  Every commercial they run (along with Samsung and
>>> everyone else) is always "this is why our product is better than Apple". If
>>> a company really believes that, you don't have to make the direct
>>> comparison. LOL
>>>
>>> "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" ~Charles Caleb Colton
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Adam Moffett]

ROFL!!

-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 10/5/2016 9:27:32 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

I use an iPhone (4) only  because it was given to me and I have never 
tried another smartphone.
It still  hurts my testosterone every time I use it.  Just because I 
like girls does not make me want to be one...


-Original Message- From: Travis Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 7:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

Actually, Apple is the top smartphone in the US... nobody cares about
the rest of the world... they have 44% marketshare in the US. You know,
the country where every real Internet and tech company is located...
Apple, Intel, Facebook, Instagram, Amazon, Google, etc.

Take your pick of Android phone... their screen responses all suck
compared to an iPhone. :)

Travis


On 10/5/2016 6:02 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

It was not me that said that.

I don't buy Apple products. Period. I would not get an Apple product 
if it were free.


And there is good reason that most of the people on the planet use a 
smartphone other than theirs.


And a Samsung smartphone is not real Android, so that is a piss poor 
comparison.



bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/5/2016 3:30 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some people 
drive a Chevy, some people drive a BMW.


I think it was you that even said "If the price was the same, 
everyone would be using an iPhone"... which I honestly believe. I 
have used a brand new Samsung phone with Android, and the first thing 
I noticed is that the screen response is not the same as an iPhone

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Chuck McCown]

I use an iPhone (4) only  because it was given to me and I have never tried 
another smartphone.
It still  hurts my testosterone every time I use it.  Just because I like 
girls does not make me want to be one...


-Original Message- 
From: Travis Johnson

Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 7:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

Actually, Apple is the top smartphone in the US... nobody cares about
the rest of the world... they have 44% marketshare in the US. You know,
the country where every real Internet and tech company is located...
Apple, Intel, Facebook, Instagram, Amazon, Google, etc.

Take your pick of Android phone... their screen responses all suck
compared to an iPhone. :)

Travis


On 10/5/2016 6:02 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

It was not me that said that.

I don't buy Apple products. Period. I would not get an Apple product if it 
were free.


And there is good reason that most of the people on the planet use a 
smartphone other than theirs.


And a Samsung smartphone is not real Android, so that is a piss poor 
comparison.



bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/5/2016 3:30 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some people drive a 
Chevy, some people drive a BMW.


I think it was you that even said "If the price was the same, everyone 
would be using an iPhone"... which I honestly believe. I have used a 
brand new Samsung phone with Android, and the first thing I noticed is 
that the screen response is not the same as an iPhone

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Adam Moffett]

 I wonder i the US is also the only country where Apple fanboys like to 
flaunt their superiority or if that's an international phenomenon.



-- Original Message --
From: "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 10/5/2016 9:24:12 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

Actually, Apple is the top smartphone in the US... nobody cares about 
the rest of the world... they have 44% marketshare in the US. You know, 
the country where every real Internet and tech company is located... 
Apple, Intel, Facebook, Instagram, Amazon, Google, etc.


Take your pick of Android phone... their screen responses all suck 
compared to an iPhone. :)


Travis


On 10/5/2016 6:02 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

It was not me that said that.

I don't buy Apple products. Period. I would not get an Apple product 
if it were free.


And there is good reason that most of the people on the planet use a 
smartphone other than theirs.


And a Samsung smartphone is not real Android, so that is a piss poor 
comparison.



bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/5/2016 3:30 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some people 
drive a Chevy, some people drive a BMW.


I think it was you that even said "If the price was the same, 
everyone would be using an iPhone"... which I honestly believe. I 
have used a brand new Samsung phone with Android, and the first thing 
I noticed is that the screen response is not the same as an iPhone

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Travis Johnson]

Actually, Apple is the top smartphone in the US... nobody cares about 
the rest of the world... they have 44% marketshare in the US. You know, 
the country where every real Internet and tech company is located... 
Apple, Intel, Facebook, Instagram, Amazon, Google, etc.


Take your pick of Android phone... their screen responses all suck 
compared to an iPhone. :)


Travis


On 10/5/2016 6:02 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

It was not me that said that.

I don't buy Apple products. Period. I would not get an Apple product 
if it were free.


And there is good reason that most of the people on the planet use a 
smartphone other than theirs.


And a Samsung smartphone is not real Android, so that is a piss poor 
comparison.



bp


On 10/5/2016 3:30 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some people 
drive a Chevy, some people drive a BMW.


I think it was you that even said "If the price was the same, 
everyone would be using an iPhone"... which I honestly believe. I 
have used a brand new Samsung phone with Android, and the first thing 
I noticed is that the screen response is not the same as an iPhone

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Bill Prince]

It was not me that said that.

I don't buy Apple products. Period. I would not get an Apple product if 
it were free.


And there is good reason that most of the people on the planet use a 
smartphone other than theirs.


And a Samsung smartphone is not real Android, so that is a piss poor 
comparison.



bp


On 10/5/2016 3:30 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some people drive 
a Chevy, some people drive a BMW.


I think it was you that even said "If the price was the same, everyone 
would be using an iPhone"... which I honestly believe. I have used a 
brand new Samsung phone with Android, and the first thing I noticed is 
that the screen response is not the same as an iPhone

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Paul Stewart]

Good questions…

For us, if you have a dynamic IP either business or residential you get 
filtered on on some ports … not many but a few … such as SMTP that must be sent 
via our mail servers and cannot be sent direct (spamming prevention), customers 
can’t run a public facing DNS server (they can of course do DNS lookups 
wherever they wish although we prefer they use ours) etc….  we’ve had a small 
number of customers ask for special rules on this and declined them - too much 
administrative headaches involved

If you’re on a static IP address (small monthly charge depending on the 
connection) then no filtering applied - typically a three strikes rule re abuse 
complaints and/or DDOS activity…. and we get a fair amount of abuse “traffic” 
that we deal with (or try to at least keep up)

Paul




> On Oct 5, 2016, at 7:11 PM, Nathan Anderson <nath...@fsr.com> wrote:
> 
> *raises hand*.  We filter next to zilch.
>  
> But here is a better example: how many people on this list that do proactive 
> filtering would *refuse* to disable it *if a customer explicitly asked them 
> to*?  How about for an important corporate customer that expects that when 
> they buy an internet connection from you, they are actually getting a 
> *connection to the internet*, and not an entrance pass to a walled garden?
>  
> I'm not convinced this is a good analogy anyway, because the internet isn't a 
> product, it is an ongoing service.  Hate to break it to you, but as an 
> internet provider, you are a utility company.  But you may be on to 
> something, since I think Apple and Google have both been progressing towards 
> a view of product-as-service mentality, which is another thing that I have a 
> problem with...
>  
> -- Nathan
>  
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On 
> Behalf Of Travis Johnson
> Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 4:06 PM
> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple
>  
> To use another example... how many people on this list are providing totally 
> open, unrestricted, unfiltered Internet service to customers? You aren't 
> filtering SMB or NetBIOS or DHCP or any other protocols that have no use on 
> the network? You are doing ZERO protection for your customers? I doubt it. 
> You are doing that because you are trying to avoid the customer support 
> calls, truck rolls, etc... because people don't understand what they are 
> doing with technology.
> 
> Apple does the same thing. Lock down the devices so people can't cause damage 
> to themselves, that Apple then has to fix. :)
> 
> Travis
> 
> 
> On 10/5/2016 4:57 PM, Nathan Anderson wrote:
> People also want their computers to work, period.  I'm not sure I see the 
> difference.  This device of mine that you call a "phone" is not actually a 
> phone.  That's a misnomer.  It is a pocket computer that happens to have a 
> phone app on it.
>  
> There are a lot of circumstances today where I used to carry a laptop, but I 
> now carry a phone SO THAT I don't have to carry a laptop with me.
>  
> The same kind of security model has been applied to so-called tablets, which 
> are basically touch-screen laptops without a keyboard on them, but many of 
> them can have a keyboard added if desired.  This is not a phone vs. computer 
> debate.  The form factor has little to do with the issue at hand.  Apple has 
> even made steps that hint at them trying to do similar things to the Mac.  It 
> may only be a matter of time until you can't even use a laptop "to do 
> whatever you want".
>  
> -- Nathan
>  
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On 
> Behalf Of Travis Johnson
> Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 3:51 PM
> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple
>  
> This literally made me laugh out loud... you realize this is less than 1% of 
> 1% of the population? Why not just carry a laptop with you to do whatever you 
> want?
> 
> People just want their phones to work, period. They want to text, Facebook, 
> Snap, Instagram, and take pics. There are probably 1,000 people total that 
> need to do what you are talking about with their phones... that's a VERY 
> small percentage. :)
> 
> Travis
> 
> 
> 
> On 10/5/2016 4:47 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
> Just the fact that Apple now hides the file system from the user and makes it 
> impossible to directly manipulate things is a deal breaker for me. I can 
> understand why they did it, to stop people from shooting themselves in the 
> foot. 
> 
> But there a myriad of things I can do on a OnePlus One running CyanogenMod 
> that are impossible/restricted/locked d

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Stefan Englhardt]

You have to buy the S line of Samsung to compare with Apple. These are very 
smooth despite they have to move more pixels due to better screens.

 Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
Von: Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> 
Datum: 06.10.2016  00:30  (GMT+01:00) 
An: af@afmug.com 
Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple 

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Jason McKemie]

They seem like they're converging to some degree.  In a few years there
probably won't be much difference after a few more iterations of copying
each other.

On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 6:38 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

> I have only had Android phones myself, and my only experience with iOS is
> setting up Internet or email on the occasional iPad for customers.
>
>
>
> I do feel the Android user interface is very primitive and should have
> evolved to be more user friendly by now.  It seems like all they care about
> is how many apps there are, the UI can suck.  Not having owned an iPhone, I
> don’t know if Apple does any better.  I know that OS X does not seem as
> easy and intuitive as everyone says it is.
>
>
>
> The other thing I’ve found, since I’m using a 2+ year old Android phone,
> is they develop bugs, glitches and crashes over time.  It seems like once
> the hardware is 2 years old, it doesn’t matter if you get an Android
> update, it’s not going to work like when it was new, and they are going to
> push you to buy new hardware.  Whereas it seems Apple is more dedicated to
> the idea of no phone left behind.  They want you to upgrade, but they won’t
> turn your iPhone 5 into a useless piece of crap to force you to upgrade.
>
>
>
> Microsoft has occasionally had religion about UI design, but then they go
> totally off the tracks.  Right click context sensitive menus were the
> greatest thing since sliced bread.  Windows 8 was the devil’s work.
> Microsoft Office looks like it came from a totally different company.  But
> I got a major endorphin rush the first time I accidentally right-clicked on
> the Start button in Window 10.  I was like the Nazis opening the Ark …
> “it’s so beautiful!”
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jason McKemie
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 5, 2016 5:53 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple
>
>
>
> Apple has been copying Android interface design for several iPhone os
> versions now.
>
> On Wednesday, October 5, 2016, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote:
>
> https://techcrunch.com/2016/10/05/not-ok-google/
>
> It's taken a while, many years, but Google has finally admitted that Apple
> had it right all along... you have to control the hardware AND software to
> have an awesome product. This was Steve Job's goal from the very beginning
> with the Macintosh... and now everyone else is finally understanding.
>
> So now Google is copying everything Apple does... even down to the
> marketing materials.  Every commercial they run (along with Samsung and
> everyone else) is always "this is why our product is better than Apple". If
> a company really believes that, you don't have to make the direct
> comparison. LOL
>
> "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" ~Charles Caleb Colton
>
> Travis
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Mike Hammett]

and useful? I'd be stranded with an iPhone. Lack of functionality! 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Bill Prince" <part15...@gmail.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 4:15:11 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple 

I will point out (again) that 8 to 9 of 10 smartphones on the planet are 
Android. So while making it "elegant" is important, it's probably more 
important to make it affordable. 

My Nexus phone is a damn fine phone, and I don't feel like I've been 
left out of anything at all. 


bp 
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> 

On 10/5/2016 1:57 PM, Travis Johnson wrote: 
> https://techcrunch.com/2016/10/05/not-ok-google/ 
> 
> It's taken a while, many years, but Google has finally admitted that 
> Apple had it right all along... you have to control the hardware AND 
> software to have an awesome product. This was Steve Job's goal from 
> the very beginning with the Macintosh... and now everyone else is 
> finally understanding. 
> 
> So now Google is copying everything Apple does... even down to the 
> marketing materials. Every commercial they run (along with Samsung 
> and everyone else) is always "this is why our product is better than 
> Apple". If a company really believes that, you don't have to make the 
> direct comparison. LOL 
> 
> "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" ~Charles Caleb Colton 
> 
> Travis 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Ken Hohhof]

I have only had Android phones myself, and my only experience with iOS is 
setting up Internet or email on the occasional iPad for customers.

 

I do feel the Android user interface is very primitive and should have evolved 
to be more user friendly by now.  It seems like all they care about is how many 
apps there are, the UI can suck.  Not having owned an iPhone, I don’t know if 
Apple does any better.  I know that OS X does not seem as easy and intuitive as 
everyone says it is.

 

The other thing I’ve found, since I’m using a 2+ year old Android phone, is 
they develop bugs, glitches and crashes over time.  It seems like once the 
hardware is 2 years old, it doesn’t matter if you get an Android update, it’s 
not going to work like when it was new, and they are going to push you to buy 
new hardware.  Whereas it seems Apple is more dedicated to the idea of no phone 
left behind.  They want you to upgrade, but they won’t turn your iPhone 5 into 
a useless piece of crap to force you to upgrade.

 

Microsoft has occasionally had religion about UI design, but then they go 
totally off the tracks.  Right click context sensitive menus were the greatest 
thing since sliced bread.  Windows 8 was the devil’s work.  Microsoft Office 
looks like it came from a totally different company.  But I got a major 
endorphin rush the first time I accidentally right-clicked on the Start button 
in Window 10.  I was like the Nazis opening the Ark … “it’s so beautiful!”

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 5:53 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

 

Apple has been copying Android interface design for several iPhone os versions 
now.

On Wednesday, October 5, 2016, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net 
<mailto:t...@ida.net> > wrote:

https://techcrunch.com/2016/10/05/not-ok-google/

It's taken a while, many years, but Google has finally admitted that Apple had 
it right all along... you have to control the hardware AND software to have an 
awesome product. This was Steve Job's goal from the very beginning with the 
Macintosh... and now everyone else is finally understanding.

So now Google is copying everything Apple does... even down to the marketing 
materials.  Every commercial they run (along with Samsung and everyone else) is 
always "this is why our product is better than Apple". If a company really 
believes that, you don't have to make the direct comparison. LOL

"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" ~Charles Caleb Colton

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Nathan Anderson]

*raises hand*.  We filter next to zilch.

But here is a better example: how many people on this list that do proactive 
filtering would *refuse* to disable it *if a customer explicitly asked them 
to*?  How about for an important corporate customer that expects that when they 
buy an internet connection from you, they are actually getting a *connection to 
the internet*, and not an entrance pass to a walled garden?

I'm not convinced this is a good analogy anyway, because the internet isn't a 
product, it is an ongoing service.  Hate to break it to you, but as an internet 
provider, you are a utility company.  But you may be on to something, since I 
think Apple and Google have both been progressing towards a view of 
product-as-service mentality, which is another thing that I have a problem 
with...

-- Nathan

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 4:06 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

To use another example... how many people on this list are providing totally 
open, unrestricted, unfiltered Internet service to customers? You aren't 
filtering SMB or NetBIOS or DHCP or any other protocols that have no use on the 
network? You are doing ZERO protection for your customers? I doubt it. You are 
doing that because you are trying to avoid the customer support calls, truck 
rolls, etc... because people don't understand what they are doing with 
technology.

Apple does the same thing. Lock down the devices so people can't cause damage 
to themselves, that Apple then has to fix. :)

Travis

On 10/5/2016 4:57 PM, Nathan Anderson wrote:
People also want their computers to work, period.  I'm not sure I see the 
difference.  This device of mine that you call a "phone" is not actually a 
phone.  That's a misnomer.  It is a pocket computer that happens to have a 
phone app on it.

There are a lot of circumstances today where I used to carry a laptop, but I 
now carry a phone SO THAT I don't have to carry a laptop with me.

The same kind of security model has been applied to so-called tablets, which 
are basically touch-screen laptops without a keyboard on them, but many of them 
can have a keyboard added if desired.  This is not a phone vs. computer debate. 
 The form factor has little to do with the issue at hand.  Apple has even made 
steps that hint at them trying to do similar things to the Mac.  It may only be 
a matter of time until you can't even use a laptop "to do whatever you want".

-- Nathan

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 3:51 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

This literally made me laugh out loud... you realize this is less than 1% of 1% 
of the population? Why not just carry a laptop with you to do whatever you want?

People just want their phones to work, period. They want to text, Facebook, 
Snap, Instagram, and take pics. There are probably 1,000 people total that need 
to do what you are talking about with their phones... that's a VERY small 
percentage. :)

Travis


On 10/5/2016 4:47 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
Just the fact that Apple now hides the file system from the user and makes it 
impossible to directly manipulate things is a deal breaker for me. I can 
understand why they did it, to stop people from shooting themselves in the foot.

But there a myriad of things I can do on a OnePlus One running CyanogenMod that 
are impossible/restricted/locked down on an iPhone. With the right GUI tools 
and Termux a cyanogenmod phone is very close to a basic Linux shell system:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.termux=en



On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 3:42 PM, Nathan Anderson 
<nath...@fsr.com<mailto:nath...@fsr.com>> wrote:
To some people, such as myself, openness matters as much as or more than 
certain design aspects.  I used iPhones from 2008-2012 and did enjoy them, but 
that was back when jailbreaking was more or less mainstream.  The fact that I 
even had to jailbreak in the first place, though, to use *my* phone the way 
that *I* wanted to bothered me, and I switched to Android when Apple's 
code-signing BS got to be too much and actually ended up screwing me over at 
one point.

I'm not saying that code-signing is bad...it is great from a security 
standpoint for the average user.  But if somebody desires to turn it off, there 
should be a way for the owner of the phone to do so.  By all means, make it a 
difficult process so that the bar to entry is high enough to dissuade the 
average user from doing so, but make it *possible*.  Apple doesn't just use 
code-signing for security, they also use it as a bludgeon with which to bully 
their users.

So if there is one aspect where I hope Google did *not* copy Apple in this 
endeavor, it is this.  The bootloader on the new phones better darn well be 
unlockable by the user without

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Travis Johnson]

To use another example... how many people on this list are providing 
totally open, unrestricted, unfiltered Internet service to customers? 
You aren't filtering SMB or NetBIOS or DHCP or any other protocols that 
have no use on the network? You are doing ZERO protection for your 
customers? I doubt it. You are doing that because you are trying to 
avoid the customer support calls, truck rolls, etc... because people 
don't understand what they are doing with technology.


Apple does the same thing. Lock down the devices so people can't cause 
damage to themselves, that Apple then has to fix. :)


Travis


On 10/5/2016 4:57 PM, Nathan Anderson wrote:


People also want their computers to work, period.  I'm not sure I see 
the difference.  This device of mine that you call a "phone" is not 
actually a phone.  That's a misnomer.  It is a pocket computer that 
happens to have a phone app on it.


There are a lot of circumstances today where I used to carry a laptop, 
but I now carry a phone SO THAT I don't have to carry a laptop with me.


The same kind of security model has been applied to so-called tablets, 
which are basically touch-screen laptops without a keyboard on them, 
but many of them can have a keyboard added if desired.  This is not a 
phone vs. computer debate.  The form factor has little to do with the 
issue at hand.  Apple has even made steps that hint at them trying to 
do similar things to the Mac.  It may only be a matter of time until 
you can't even use a laptop "to do whatever you want".


-- Nathan

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Travis Johnson
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 05, 2016 3:51 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

This literally made me laugh out loud... you realize this is less than 
1% of 1% of the population? Why not just carry a laptop with you to do 
whatever you want?


People just want their phones to work, period. They want to text, 
Facebook, Snap, Instagram, and take pics. There are probably 1,000 
people total that need to do what you are talking about with their 
phones... that's a VERY small percentage. :)


Travis

On 10/5/2016 4:47 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:

Just the fact that Apple now hides the file system from the user
and makes it impossible to directly manipulate things is a deal
breaker for me. I can understand why they did it, to stop people
from shooting themselves in the foot.

But there a myriad of things I can do on a OnePlus One running
CyanogenMod that are impossible/restricted/locked down on an
iPhone. With the right GUI tools and Termux a cyanogenmod phone is
very close to a basic Linux shell system:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.termux=en

On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 3:42 PM, Nathan Anderson <nath...@fsr.com
<mailto:nath...@fsr.com>> wrote:

To some people, such as myself, openness matters as much as or
more than certain design aspects.  I used iPhones from 2008-2012
and did enjoy them, but that was back when jailbreaking was more
or less mainstream.  The fact that I even had to jailbreak in the
first place, though, to use *my* phone the way that *I* wanted to
bothered me, and I switched to Android when Apple's code-signing
BS got to be too much and actually ended up screwing me over at
one point.

I'm not saying that code-signing is bad...it is great from a
security standpoint for the average user.  But if somebody desires
to turn it off, there should be a way for the owner of the phone
to do so.  By all means, make it a difficult process so that the
bar to entry is high enough to dissuade the average user from
doing so, but make it *possible*.  Apple doesn't just use
code-signing for security, they also use it as a bludgeon with
which to bully their users.

So if there is one aspect where I hope Google did *not* copy Apple
in this endeavor, it is this.  The bootloader on the new phones
better darn well be unlockable by the user without the user having
to exploit a security vulnerability to do so.

-- Nathan


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 3:31 PM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some people
drive a
Chevy, some people drive a BMW.

I think it was you that even said "If the price was the same, everyone
would be using an iPhone"... which I honestly believe. I have used a
brand new Samsung phone with Android, and the first thing I noticed is
that the screen response is not the same as an iPhone... it's not as
smooth, or as refined. Yes, it works... it scrolls and it zooms and
resizes, just like a Chevy ge

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Nathan Anderson]

Don't forget to toggle off the new SIP/rootless mode on macOS now, too.

Again, at least it is possible to toggle these things off...for now.  If they 
just had a similar thing on iOS, I'd be ecstatic.  If there was an official 
way, via DFU mode or something, to toggle off bootloader signing and enable 
sideloading of apps, it would address all of my complaints.  Such a mechanism 
would *require physical access to a particular device*, which addresses 99% of 
the security objections.

-- Nathan

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Eric Kuhnke
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 4:02 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

The day that Apple stops OSX from being functional as a proper *BSD-ish 
workstation is the day I switch off OSX...

As it is right now it is fairly easy to take a fresh OSX install, toggle the 
security option allowing you to install unsigned apps, oinstall XCode and 
MacPorts and have a full set of command line tools available with "sudo port -v 
install name-of-thing".

https://www.macports.org/

On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 3:57 PM, Nathan Anderson 
<nath...@fsr.com<mailto:nath...@fsr.com>> wrote:
People also want their computers to work, period.  I'm not sure I see the 
difference.  This device of mine that you call a "phone" is not actually a 
phone.  That's a misnomer.  It is a pocket computer that happens to have a 
phone app on it.

There are a lot of circumstances today where I used to carry a laptop, but I 
now carry a phone SO THAT I don't have to carry a laptop with me.

The same kind of security model has been applied to so-called tablets, which 
are basically touch-screen laptops without a keyboard on them, but many of them 
can have a keyboard added if desired.  This is not a phone vs. computer debate. 
 The form factor has little to do with the issue at hand.  Apple has even made 
steps that hint at them trying to do similar things to the Mac.  It may only be 
a matter of time until you can't even use a laptop "to do whatever you want".

-- Nathan

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 3:51 PM

To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

This literally made me laugh out loud... you realize this is less than 1% of 1% 
of the population? Why not just carry a laptop with you to do whatever you want?

People just want their phones to work, period. They want to text, Facebook, 
Snap, Instagram, and take pics. There are probably 1,000 people total that need 
to do what you are talking about with their phones... that's a VERY small 
percentage. :)

Travis
On 10/5/2016 4:47 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
Just the fact that Apple now hides the file system from the user and makes it 
impossible to directly manipulate things is a deal breaker for me. I can 
understand why they did it, to stop people from shooting themselves in the foot.

But there a myriad of things I can do on a OnePlus One running CyanogenMod that 
are impossible/restricted/locked down on an iPhone. With the right GUI tools 
and Termux a cyanogenmod phone is very close to a basic Linux shell system:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.termux=en

On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 3:42 PM, Nathan Anderson 
<nath...@fsr.com<mailto:nath...@fsr.com>> wrote:
To some people, such as myself, openness matters as much as or more than 
certain design aspects.  I used iPhones from 2008-2012 and did enjoy them, but 
that was back when jailbreaking was more or less mainstream.  The fact that I 
even had to jailbreak in the first place, though, to use *my* phone the way 
that *I* wanted to bothered me, and I switched to Android when Apple's 
code-signing BS got to be too much and actually ended up screwing me over at 
one point.

I'm not saying that code-signing is bad...it is great from a security 
standpoint for the average user.  But if somebody desires to turn it off, there 
should be a way for the owner of the phone to do so.  By all means, make it a 
difficult process so that the bar to entry is high enough to dissuade the 
average user from doing so, but make it *possible*.  Apple doesn't just use 
code-signing for security, they also use it as a bludgeon with which to bully 
their users.

So if there is one aspect where I hope Google did *not* copy Apple in this 
endeavor, it is this.  The bootloader on the new phones better darn well be 
unlockable by the user without the user having to exploit a security 
vulnerability to do so.

-- Nathan

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 3:31 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some people drive a
Chevy, some peo

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Eric Kuhnke]

The day that Apple stops OSX from being functional as a proper *BSD-ish
workstation is the day I switch off OSX...

As it is right now it is fairly easy to take a fresh OSX install, toggle
the security option allowing you to install unsigned apps, oinstall XCode
and MacPorts and have a full set of command line tools available with "sudo
port -v install name-of-thing".

https://www.macports.org/


On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 3:57 PM, Nathan Anderson <nath...@fsr.com> wrote:

> People also want their computers to work, period.  I'm not sure I see the
> difference.  This device of mine that you call a "phone" is not actually a
> phone.  That's a misnomer.  It is a pocket computer that happens to have a
> phone app on it.
>
>
>
> There are a lot of circumstances today where I used to carry a laptop, but
> I now carry a phone SO THAT I don't have to carry a laptop with me.
>
>
>
> The same kind of security model has been applied to so-called tablets,
> which are basically touch-screen laptops without a keyboard on them, but
> many of them can have a keyboard added if desired.  This is not a phone vs.
> computer debate.  The form factor has little to do with the issue at hand.
> Apple has even made steps that hint at them trying to do similar things to
> the Mac.  It may only be a matter of time until you can't even use a laptop
> "to do whatever you want".
>
>
>
> -- Nathan
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Travis Johnson
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 05, 2016 3:51 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple
>
>
>
> This literally made me laugh out loud... you realize this is less than 1%
> of 1% of the population? Why not just carry a laptop with you to do
> whatever you want?
>
> People just want their phones to work, period. They want to text,
> Facebook, Snap, Instagram, and take pics. There are probably 1,000 people
> total that need to do what you are talking about with their phones...
> that's a VERY small percentage. :)
>
> Travis
>
> On 10/5/2016 4:47 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
>
> Just the fact that Apple now hides the file system from the user and makes
> it impossible to directly manipulate things is a deal breaker for me. I can
> understand why they did it, to stop people from shooting themselves in the
> foot.
>
> But there a myriad of things I can do on a OnePlus One running CyanogenMod
> that are impossible/restricted/locked down on an iPhone. With the right GUI
> tools and Termux a cyanogenmod phone is very close to a basic Linux shell
> system:
>
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.termux=en
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 3:42 PM, Nathan Anderson <nath...@fsr.com> wrote:
>
> To some people, such as myself, openness matters as much as or more than
> certain design aspects.  I used iPhones from 2008-2012 and did enjoy them,
> but that was back when jailbreaking was more or less mainstream.  The fact
> that I even had to jailbreak in the first place, though, to use *my* phone
> the way that *I* wanted to bothered me, and I switched to Android when
> Apple's code-signing BS got to be too much and actually ended up screwing
> me over at one point.
>
> I'm not saying that code-signing is bad...it is great from a security
> standpoint for the average user.  But if somebody desires to turn it off,
> there should be a way for the owner of the phone to do so.  By all means,
> make it a difficult process so that the bar to entry is high enough to
> dissuade the average user from doing so, but make it *possible*.  Apple
> doesn't just use code-signing for security, they also use it as a bludgeon
> with which to bully their users.
>
> So if there is one aspect where I hope Google did *not* copy Apple in this
> endeavor, it is this.  The bootloader on the new phones better darn well be
> unlockable by the user without the user having to exploit a security
> vulnerability to do so.
>
> -- Nathan
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
> Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 3:31 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple
>
> Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some people drive a
> Chevy, some people drive a BMW.
>
> I think it was you that even said "If the price was the same, everyone
> would be using an iPhone"... which I honestly believe. I have used a
> brand new Samsung phone with Android, and the first thing I noticed is
> that the screen response is not the same as an iPhone... it's not as
> smooth, or as refined. Yes, it works... it scrolls and it zooms and
> resizes, just lik

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Jason McKemie]

Apple has been copying Android interface design for several iPhone os
versions now.

On Wednesday, October 5, 2016, Travis Johnson  wrote:

> https://techcrunch.com/2016/10/05/not-ok-google/
>
> It's taken a while, many years, but Google has finally admitted that Apple
> had it right all along... you have to control the hardware AND software to
> have an awesome product. This was Steve Job's goal from the very beginning
> with the Macintosh... and now everyone else is finally understanding.
>
> So now Google is copying everything Apple does... even down to the
> marketing materials.  Every commercial they run (along with Samsung and
> everyone else) is always "this is why our product is better than Apple". If
> a company really believes that, you don't have to make the direct
> comparison. LOL
>
> "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" ~Charles Caleb Colton
>
> Travis
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Eric Kuhnke]

Yes, I absolutely agree and strongly encourage the 99.99% of the population
with ordinary use cases to buy iPhones and Android phones with
fully-packaged semi locked down operating system images (Samsung, LG or
HTC, no unlocked bootloader, no extra system option tweaks like
cyanogenmod). It will reduce technical support nightmares for everyone.

There is a great deal to be said for Apple's monolithic integration of
hardware + iOS for a hassle free Facebook experience.

But I really like the fact that if you truly want to, you can make an
Android phone with the right hardware (OnePlus One or Oneplus 3 are great
examples) into a powerful mobile tool. There are way more than 1000 people
on the planet who are not scared of being root on linux systems in
absolutely-cannot-fail public internet production roles, and there' a venn
diagram overlap with the same people who do like the idea of a pocket sized
Linux workstation. It does, after all, run on a variant of the Linux kernel.

On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 3:50 PM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote:

> This literally made me laugh out loud... you realize this is less than 1%
> of 1% of the population? Why not just carry a laptop with you to do
> whatever you want?
>
> People just want their phones to work, period. They want to text,
> Facebook, Snap, Instagram, and take pics. There are probably 1,000 people
> total that need to do what you are talking about with their phones...
> that's a VERY small percentage. :)
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 10/5/2016 4:47 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
>
> Just the fact that Apple now hides the file system from the user and makes
> it impossible to directly manipulate things is a deal breaker for me. I can
> understand why they did it, to stop people from shooting themselves in the
> foot.
>
> But there a myriad of things I can do on a OnePlus One running CyanogenMod
> that are impossible/restricted/locked down on an iPhone. With the right GUI
> tools and Termux a cyanogenmod phone is very close to a basic Linux shell
> system:
>
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.termux=en
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 3:42 PM, Nathan Anderson <nath...@fsr.com> wrote:
>
>> To some people, such as myself, openness matters as much as or more than
>> certain design aspects.  I used iPhones from 2008-2012 and did enjoy them,
>> but that was back when jailbreaking was more or less mainstream.  The fact
>> that I even had to jailbreak in the first place, though, to use *my* phone
>> the way that *I* wanted to bothered me, and I switched to Android when
>> Apple's code-signing BS got to be too much and actually ended up screwing
>> me over at one point.
>>
>> I'm not saying that code-signing is bad...it is great from a security
>> standpoint for the average user.  But if somebody desires to turn it off,
>> there should be a way for the owner of the phone to do so.  By all means,
>> make it a difficult process so that the bar to entry is high enough to
>> dissuade the average user from doing so, but make it *possible*.  Apple
>> doesn't just use code-signing for security, they also use it as a bludgeon
>> with which to bully their users.
>>
>> So if there is one aspect where I hope Google did *not* copy Apple in
>> this endeavor, it is this.  The bootloader on the new phones better darn
>> well be unlockable by the user without the user having to exploit a
>> security vulnerability to do so.
>>
>> -- Nathan
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 3:31 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple
>>
>> Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some people drive a
>> Chevy, some people drive a BMW.
>>
>> I think it was you that even said "If the price was the same, everyone
>> would be using an iPhone"... which I honestly believe. I have used a
>> brand new Samsung phone with Android, and the first thing I noticed is
>> that the screen response is not the same as an iPhone... it's not as
>> smooth, or as refined. Yes, it works... it scrolls and it zooms and
>> resizes, just like a Chevy gets you from Point A to Point B... but if a
>> BMW was the same price as a Chevy, 99% of the population would be
>> driving BMW.
>>
>> Just my thoughts. :)
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>> On 10/5/2016 3:15 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>> > I will point out (again) that 8 to 9 of 10 smartphones on the planet
>> > are Android. So while making it "elegant" is important, it's probably
>> > more important to make it afford

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Nathan Anderson]

People also want their computers to work, period.  I'm not sure I see the 
difference.  This device of mine that you call a "phone" is not actually a 
phone.  That's a misnomer.  It is a pocket computer that happens to have a 
phone app on it.

There are a lot of circumstances today where I used to carry a laptop, but I 
now carry a phone SO THAT I don't have to carry a laptop with me.

The same kind of security model has been applied to so-called tablets, which 
are basically touch-screen laptops without a keyboard on them, but many of them 
can have a keyboard added if desired.  This is not a phone vs. computer debate. 
 The form factor has little to do with the issue at hand.  Apple has even made 
steps that hint at them trying to do similar things to the Mac.  It may only be 
a matter of time until you can't even use a laptop "to do whatever you want".

-- Nathan

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 3:51 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

This literally made me laugh out loud... you realize this is less than 1% of 1% 
of the population? Why not just carry a laptop with you to do whatever you want?

People just want their phones to work, period. They want to text, Facebook, 
Snap, Instagram, and take pics. There are probably 1,000 people total that need 
to do what you are talking about with their phones... that's a VERY small 
percentage. :)

Travis

On 10/5/2016 4:47 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
Just the fact that Apple now hides the file system from the user and makes it 
impossible to directly manipulate things is a deal breaker for me. I can 
understand why they did it, to stop people from shooting themselves in the foot.

But there a myriad of things I can do on a OnePlus One running CyanogenMod that 
are impossible/restricted/locked down on an iPhone. With the right GUI tools 
and Termux a cyanogenmod phone is very close to a basic Linux shell system:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.termux=en


On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 3:42 PM, Nathan Anderson 
<nath...@fsr.com<mailto:nath...@fsr.com>> wrote:
To some people, such as myself, openness matters as much as or more than 
certain design aspects.  I used iPhones from 2008-2012 and did enjoy them, but 
that was back when jailbreaking was more or less mainstream.  The fact that I 
even had to jailbreak in the first place, though, to use *my* phone the way 
that *I* wanted to bothered me, and I switched to Android when Apple's 
code-signing BS got to be too much and actually ended up screwing me over at 
one point.

I'm not saying that code-signing is bad...it is great from a security 
standpoint for the average user.  But if somebody desires to turn it off, there 
should be a way for the owner of the phone to do so.  By all means, make it a 
difficult process so that the bar to entry is high enough to dissuade the 
average user from doing so, but make it *possible*.  Apple doesn't just use 
code-signing for security, they also use it as a bludgeon with which to bully 
their users.

So if there is one aspect where I hope Google did *not* copy Apple in this 
endeavor, it is this.  The bootloader on the new phones better darn well be 
unlockable by the user without the user having to exploit a security 
vulnerability to do so.

-- Nathan

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 3:31 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some people drive a
Chevy, some people drive a BMW.

I think it was you that even said "If the price was the same, everyone
would be using an iPhone"... which I honestly believe. I have used a
brand new Samsung phone with Android, and the first thing I noticed is
that the screen response is not the same as an iPhone... it's not as
smooth, or as refined. Yes, it works... it scrolls and it zooms and
resizes, just like a Chevy gets you from Point A to Point B... but if a
BMW was the same price as a Chevy, 99% of the population would be
driving BMW.

Just my thoughts. :)

Travis


On 10/5/2016 3:15 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
> I will point out (again) that 8 to 9 of 10 smartphones on the planet
> are Android. So while making it "elegant" is important, it's probably
> more important to make it affordable.
>
> My Nexus phone is a damn fine phone, and I don't feel like I've been
> left out of anything at all.
>
>
> bp
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>
> On 10/5/2016 1:57 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>> https://techcrunch.com/2016/10/05/not-ok-google/
>>
>> It's taken a while, many years, but Google has finally admitted that
>> Apple had it right all along... you have to control the hardware AND
>&g

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Travis Johnson]

Apple has already figured out that you can't just turn people loose, 
being able to hack or jailbreak or make changes to the OS, and then also 
provide free support. Google will see the same thing and begin to lock 
their phones down too... it's just a matter of time.


Travis


On 10/5/2016 4:42 PM, Nathan Anderson wrote:

To some people, such as myself, openness matters as much as or more than 
certain design aspects.  I used iPhones from 2008-2012 and did enjoy them, but 
that was back when jailbreaking was more or less mainstream.  The fact that I 
even had to jailbreak in the first place, though, to use *my* phone the way 
that *I* wanted to bothered me, and I switched to Android when Apple's 
code-signing BS got to be too much and actually ended up screwing me over at 
one point.

I'm not saying that code-signing is bad...it is great from a security 
standpoint for the average user.  But if somebody desires to turn it off, there 
should be a way for the owner of the phone to do so.  By all means, make it a 
difficult process so that the bar to entry is high enough to dissuade the 
average user from doing so, but make it *possible*.  Apple doesn't just use 
code-signing for security, they also use it as a bludgeon with which to bully 
their users.

So if there is one aspect where I hope Google did *not* copy Apple in this 
endeavor, it is this.  The bootloader on the new phones better darn well be 
unlockable by the user without the user having to exploit a security 
vulnerability to do so.

-- Nathan

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 3:31 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some people drive a
Chevy, some people drive a BMW.

I think it was you that even said "If the price was the same, everyone
would be using an iPhone"... which I honestly believe. I have used a
brand new Samsung phone with Android, and the first thing I noticed is
that the screen response is not the same as an iPhone... it's not as
smooth, or as refined. Yes, it works... it scrolls and it zooms and
resizes, just like a Chevy gets you from Point A to Point B... but if a
BMW was the same price as a Chevy, 99% of the population would be
driving BMW.

Just my thoughts. :)

Travis


On 10/5/2016 3:15 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

I will point out (again) that 8 to 9 of 10 smartphones on the planet
are Android. So while making it "elegant" is important, it's probably
more important to make it affordable.

My Nexus phone is a damn fine phone, and I don't feel like I've been
left out of anything at all.


bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/5/2016 1:57 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:

https://techcrunch.com/2016/10/05/not-ok-google/

It's taken a while, many years, but Google has finally admitted that
Apple had it right all along... you have to control the hardware AND
software to have an awesome product. This was Steve Job's goal from
the very beginning with the Macintosh... and now everyone else is
finally understanding.

So now Google is copying everything Apple does... even down to the
marketing materials.  Every commercial they run (along with Samsung
and everyone else) is always "this is why our product is better than
Apple". If a company really believes that, you don't have to make the
direct comparison. LOL

"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" ~Charles Caleb Colton

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Travis Johnson]

This literally made me laugh out loud... you realize this is less than 
1% of 1% of the population? Why not just carry a laptop with you to do 
whatever you want?


People just want their phones to work, period. They want to text, 
Facebook, Snap, Instagram, and take pics. There are probably 1,000 
people total that need to do what you are talking about with their 
phones... that's a VERY small percentage. :)


Travis


On 10/5/2016 4:47 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
Just the fact that Apple now hides the file system from the user and 
makes it impossible to directly manipulate things is a deal breaker 
for me. I can understand why they did it, to stop people from shooting 
themselves in the foot.


But there a myriad of things I can do on a OnePlus One running 
CyanogenMod that are impossible/restricted/locked down on an iPhone. 
With the right GUI tools and Termux a cyanogenmod phone is very close 
to a basic Linux shell system:


https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.termux=en



On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 3:42 PM, Nathan Anderson <nath...@fsr.com 
<mailto:nath...@fsr.com>> wrote:


To some people, such as myself, openness matters as much as or
more than certain design aspects.  I used iPhones from 2008-2012
and did enjoy them, but that was back when jailbreaking was more
or less mainstream.  The fact that I even had to jailbreak in the
first place, though, to use *my* phone the way that *I* wanted to
bothered me, and I switched to Android when Apple's code-signing
BS got to be too much and actually ended up screwing me over at
one point.

I'm not saying that code-signing is bad...it is great from a
security standpoint for the average user.  But if somebody desires
to turn it off, there should be a way for the owner of the phone
to do so.  By all means, make it a difficult process so that the
bar to entry is high enough to dissuade the average user from
doing so, but make it *possible*. Apple doesn't just use
code-signing for security, they also use it as a bludgeon with
which to bully their users.

So if there is one aspect where I hope Google did *not* copy Apple
in this endeavor, it is this.  The bootloader on the new phones
better darn well be unlockable by the user without the user having
to exploit a security vulnerability to do so.

-- Nathan

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 3:31 PM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some people
drive a
Chevy, some people drive a BMW.

I think it was you that even said "If the price was the same, everyone
would be using an iPhone"... which I honestly believe. I have used a
brand new Samsung phone with Android, and the first thing I noticed is
that the screen response is not the same as an iPhone... it's not as
smooth, or as refined. Yes, it works... it scrolls and it zooms and
resizes, just like a Chevy gets you from Point A to Point B... but
if a
BMW was the same price as a Chevy, 99% of the population would be
driving BMW.

Just my thoughts. :)

Travis


On 10/5/2016 3:15 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
> I will point out (again) that 8 to 9 of 10 smartphones on the planet
> are Android. So while making it "elegant" is important, it's
probably
> more important to make it affordable.
>
> My Nexus phone is a damn fine phone, and I don't feel like I've been
> left out of anything at all.
>
>
> bp
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>
> On 10/5/2016 1:57 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>> https://techcrunch.com/2016/10/05/not-ok-google/
<https://techcrunch.com/2016/10/05/not-ok-google/>
>>
>> It's taken a while, many years, but Google has finally admitted
that
>> Apple had it right all along... you have to control the
hardware AND
>> software to have an awesome product. This was Steve Job's goal from
>> the very beginning with the Macintosh... and now everyone else is
>> finally understanding.
>>
>> So now Google is copying everything Apple does... even down to the
>> marketing materials.  Every commercial they run (along with Samsung
>> and everyone else) is always "this is why our product is better
than
>> Apple". If a company really believes that, you don't have to
make the
>> direct comparison. LOL
>>
>> "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" ~Charles Caleb Colton
>>
>> Travis
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Eric Kuhnke]

Just the fact that Apple now hides the file system from the user and makes
it impossible to directly manipulate things is a deal breaker for me. I can
understand why they did it, to stop people from shooting themselves in the
foot.

But there a myriad of things I can do on a OnePlus One running CyanogenMod
that are impossible/restricted/locked down on an iPhone. With the right GUI
tools and Termux a cyanogenmod phone is very close to a basic Linux shell
system:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.termux=en



On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 3:42 PM, Nathan Anderson <nath...@fsr.com> wrote:

> To some people, such as myself, openness matters as much as or more than
> certain design aspects.  I used iPhones from 2008-2012 and did enjoy them,
> but that was back when jailbreaking was more or less mainstream.  The fact
> that I even had to jailbreak in the first place, though, to use *my* phone
> the way that *I* wanted to bothered me, and I switched to Android when
> Apple's code-signing BS got to be too much and actually ended up screwing
> me over at one point.
>
> I'm not saying that code-signing is bad...it is great from a security
> standpoint for the average user.  But if somebody desires to turn it off,
> there should be a way for the owner of the phone to do so.  By all means,
> make it a difficult process so that the bar to entry is high enough to
> dissuade the average user from doing so, but make it *possible*.  Apple
> doesn't just use code-signing for security, they also use it as a bludgeon
> with which to bully their users.
>
> So if there is one aspect where I hope Google did *not* copy Apple in this
> endeavor, it is this.  The bootloader on the new phones better darn well be
> unlockable by the user without the user having to exploit a security
> vulnerability to do so.
>
> -- Nathan
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
> Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 3:31 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple
>
> Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some people drive a
> Chevy, some people drive a BMW.
>
> I think it was you that even said "If the price was the same, everyone
> would be using an iPhone"... which I honestly believe. I have used a
> brand new Samsung phone with Android, and the first thing I noticed is
> that the screen response is not the same as an iPhone... it's not as
> smooth, or as refined. Yes, it works... it scrolls and it zooms and
> resizes, just like a Chevy gets you from Point A to Point B... but if a
> BMW was the same price as a Chevy, 99% of the population would be
> driving BMW.
>
> Just my thoughts. :)
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 10/5/2016 3:15 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
> > I will point out (again) that 8 to 9 of 10 smartphones on the planet
> > are Android. So while making it "elegant" is important, it's probably
> > more important to make it affordable.
> >
> > My Nexus phone is a damn fine phone, and I don't feel like I've been
> > left out of anything at all.
> >
> >
> > bp
> > <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
> >
> > On 10/5/2016 1:57 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
> >> https://techcrunch.com/2016/10/05/not-ok-google/
> >>
> >> It's taken a while, many years, but Google has finally admitted that
> >> Apple had it right all along... you have to control the hardware AND
> >> software to have an awesome product. This was Steve Job's goal from
> >> the very beginning with the Macintosh... and now everyone else is
> >> finally understanding.
> >>
> >> So now Google is copying everything Apple does... even down to the
> >> marketing materials.  Every commercial they run (along with Samsung
> >> and everyone else) is always "this is why our product is better than
> >> Apple". If a company really believes that, you don't have to make the
> >> direct comparison. LOL
> >>
> >> "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" ~Charles Caleb Colton
> >>
> >> Travis
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Nathan Anderson]

To some people, such as myself, openness matters as much as or more than 
certain design aspects.  I used iPhones from 2008-2012 and did enjoy them, but 
that was back when jailbreaking was more or less mainstream.  The fact that I 
even had to jailbreak in the first place, though, to use *my* phone the way 
that *I* wanted to bothered me, and I switched to Android when Apple's 
code-signing BS got to be too much and actually ended up screwing me over at 
one point.

I'm not saying that code-signing is bad...it is great from a security 
standpoint for the average user.  But if somebody desires to turn it off, there 
should be a way for the owner of the phone to do so.  By all means, make it a 
difficult process so that the bar to entry is high enough to dissuade the 
average user from doing so, but make it *possible*.  Apple doesn't just use 
code-signing for security, they also use it as a bludgeon with which to bully 
their users.

So if there is one aspect where I hope Google did *not* copy Apple in this 
endeavor, it is this.  The bootloader on the new phones better darn well be 
unlockable by the user without the user having to exploit a security 
vulnerability to do so.

-- Nathan

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 3:31 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some people drive a 
Chevy, some people drive a BMW.

I think it was you that even said "If the price was the same, everyone 
would be using an iPhone"... which I honestly believe. I have used a 
brand new Samsung phone with Android, and the first thing I noticed is 
that the screen response is not the same as an iPhone... it's not as 
smooth, or as refined. Yes, it works... it scrolls and it zooms and 
resizes, just like a Chevy gets you from Point A to Point B... but if a 
BMW was the same price as a Chevy, 99% of the population would be 
driving BMW.

Just my thoughts. :)

Travis


On 10/5/2016 3:15 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
> I will point out (again) that 8 to 9 of 10 smartphones on the planet 
> are Android. So while making it "elegant" is important, it's probably 
> more important to make it affordable.
>
> My Nexus phone is a damn fine phone, and I don't feel like I've been 
> left out of anything at all.
>
>
> bp
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>
> On 10/5/2016 1:57 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>> https://techcrunch.com/2016/10/05/not-ok-google/
>>
>> It's taken a while, many years, but Google has finally admitted that 
>> Apple had it right all along... you have to control the hardware AND 
>> software to have an awesome product. This was Steve Job's goal from 
>> the very beginning with the Macintosh... and now everyone else is 
>> finally understanding.
>>
>> So now Google is copying everything Apple does... even down to the 
>> marketing materials.  Every commercial they run (along with Samsung 
>> and everyone else) is always "this is why our product is better than 
>> Apple". If a company really believes that, you don't have to make the 
>> direct comparison. LOL
>>
>> "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" ~Charles Caleb Colton
>>
>> Travis
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Paul Stewart]

As of May this year, Apple phones were 23% of the market according to what I’ve 
read .. it dropped slightly.

Almost 70% were Android powered phones ….

I’ve had both phones in the past couple of years … Samsung S6, S6 Edge, S7 and 
Apple 6, and 6 Plus.  The only phones I haven’t had any weird issues with were 
Apple …. I’m not a fan of Android personally.

As Travis mentioned, everyone has a preference and choose different devices - 
I’ll also take a Mac any day over a PC and I own several of both …   I also 
*really* like the Apple ecosystem where my iPads, iPhones, Mac’s all interfact 
with one another (and including my Apple TV units) - I have the same photos, 
files, passwords, usernames, etc on all devices securely synchronized.

Paul

> On Oct 5, 2016, at 6:30 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
> 
> Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some people drive a 
> Chevy, some people drive a BMW.
> 
> I think it was you that even said "If the price was the same, everyone would 
> be using an iPhone"... which I honestly believe. I have used a brand new 
> Samsung phone with Android, and the first thing I noticed is that the screen 
> response is not the same as an iPhone... it's not as smooth, or as refined. 
> Yes, it works... it scrolls and it zooms and resizes, just like a Chevy gets 
> you from Point A to Point B... but if a BMW was the same price as a Chevy, 
> 99% of the population would be driving BMW.
> 
> Just my thoughts. :)
> 
> Travis
> 
> 
> On 10/5/2016 3:15 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>> I will point out (again) that 8 to 9 of 10 smartphones on the planet are 
>> Android. So while making it "elegant" is important, it's probably more 
>> important to make it affordable.
>> 
>> My Nexus phone is a damn fine phone, and I don't feel like I've been left 
>> out of anything at all.
>> 
>> 
>> bp
>> 
>> 
>> On 10/5/2016 1:57 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>>> https://techcrunch.com/2016/10/05/not-ok-google/
>>> 
>>> It's taken a while, many years, but Google has finally admitted that Apple 
>>> had it right all along... you have to control the hardware AND software to 
>>> have an awesome product. This was Steve Job's goal from the very beginning 
>>> with the Macintosh... and now everyone else is finally understanding.
>>> 
>>> So now Google is copying everything Apple does... even down to the 
>>> marketing materials.  Every commercial they run (along with Samsung and 
>>> everyone else) is always "this is why our product is better than Apple". If 
>>> a company really believes that, you don't have to make the direct 
>>> comparison. LOL
>>> 
>>> "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" ~Charles Caleb Colton
>>> 
>>> Travis
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Travis Johnson]

Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some people drive a 
Chevy, some people drive a BMW.


I think it was you that even said "If the price was the same, everyone 
would be using an iPhone"... which I honestly believe. I have used a 
brand new Samsung phone with Android, and the first thing I noticed is 
that the screen response is not the same as an iPhone... it's not as 
smooth, or as refined. Yes, it works... it scrolls and it zooms and 
resizes, just like a Chevy gets you from Point A to Point B... but if a 
BMW was the same price as a Chevy, 99% of the population would be 
driving BMW.


Just my thoughts. :)

Travis


On 10/5/2016 3:15 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
I will point out (again) that 8 to 9 of 10 smartphones on the planet 
are Android. So while making it "elegant" is important, it's probably 
more important to make it affordable.


My Nexus phone is a damn fine phone, and I don't feel like I've been 
left out of anything at all.



bp


On 10/5/2016 1:57 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:

https://techcrunch.com/2016/10/05/not-ok-google/

It's taken a while, many years, but Google has finally admitted that 
Apple had it right all along... you have to control the hardware AND 
software to have an awesome product. This was Steve Job's goal from 
the very beginning with the Macintosh... and now everyone else is 
finally understanding.


So now Google is copying everything Apple does... even down to the 
marketing materials.  Every commercial they run (along with Samsung 
and everyone else) is always "this is why our product is better than 
Apple". If a company really believes that, you don't have to make the 
direct comparison. LOL


"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" ~Charles Caleb Colton

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Bill Prince]

I will point out (again) that 8 to 9 of 10 smartphones on the planet are 
Android. So while making it "elegant" is important, it's probably more 
important to make it affordable.


My Nexus phone is a damn fine phone, and I don't feel like I've been 
left out of anything at all.



bp


On 10/5/2016 1:57 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:

https://techcrunch.com/2016/10/05/not-ok-google/

It's taken a while, many years, but Google has finally admitted that 
Apple had it right all along... you have to control the hardware AND 
software to have an awesome product. This was Steve Job's goal from 
the very beginning with the Macintosh... and now everyone else is 
finally understanding.


So now Google is copying everything Apple does... even down to the 
marketing materials.  Every commercial they run (along with Samsung 
and everyone else) is always "this is why our product is better than 
Apple". If a company really believes that, you don't have to make the 
direct comparison. LOL


"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" ~Charles Caleb Colton

Travis

[AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Travis Johnson]

https://techcrunch.com/2016/10/05/not-ok-google/

It's taken a while, many years, but Google has finally admitted that 
Apple had it right all along... you have to control the hardware AND 
software to have an awesome product. This was Steve Job's goal from the 
very beginning with the Macintosh... and now everyone else is finally 
understanding.


So now Google is copying everything Apple does... even down to the 
marketing materials.  Every commercial they run (along with Samsung and 
everyone else) is always "this is why our product is better than Apple". 
If a company really believes that, you don't have to make the direct 
comparison. LOL


"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" ~Charles Caleb Colton

Travis