[AFMUG] OT - bad dream
I had a bad dream where all my customers go to Walmart and buy Belkin routers. I tried to wake up but I wasn't dreaming. Aaaa!
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
I've honestly given up completely on all residential routers, they seem to be slowly converging on a common denominator which is that none of them work properly and only last a few months. I had to replace my router recently, and just got a Mikrotik instead. One of the guys I work with just replaced his old Linksys with a Mikrotik, and all of his minor problems went away. I used to think that it was a bad idea to provide managed routers to end users, but I'm slowly changing my mind after realizing how many issues are caused by them. There's also a lot you could do to provide better service to an end user, hypothetically.. let's say you put in a DD-WRT or Mikrotik router and setup some shaping on the client side with SFQ. They'd probably see a lot less issues with their Netflix buffering when their Xbox was downloading a game, or their VoIP cutting out when they're watching Daredevil in 4K. On 1/1/2016 10:05 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: I had a bad dream where all my customers go to Walmart and buy Belkin routers. I tried to wake up but I wasn't dreaming. Aaaa! -- Simon Westlake Skype: Simon_Sonar Email: simon@sonar.software Phone: (702) 447-1247 --- Sonar Software Inc The next generation of ISP billing and OSS https://sonar.software
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed Mikrotik from us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been very trouble free for us once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters. I think they look at the pile of discarded routers in their closet and decide to let someone else deal with it. Most still fall into either the "I can buy one at Walmart for $50" camp or the "I like going to Best Buy and letting the sales guy talk me into the $250 router because I like shopping for expensive toys" camp. And people still look at the humble little white Mikrotik in its plain brown box and think it can't possibly match their big black AC1900 router that looks like a weapon from Star Wars. The question I guess is whether to join the cable/telco crowd and supply the WiFi router and manage it for no additional revenue, and then what to do about the people who still want to put their own Star Wars router behind it. It is very disappointing that since Belkin bought Linksys they are now designing their own Linksys branded routers that are far worse than the Linksys designed E series which certainly had their own problems. I replaced a customer's Belksys AC1900 router with a Mikrotik this week and they went from having total dead spots in parts of their house on both 2.4 and 5 GHz to having full bars and great performance everywhere including the basement. Their minds were boggled at this little white box with no external antennas blowing away the big black monster. Of the household brands, Netgear doesn't seem all that bad, except their low end WNR2000 has a really high failure rate. I see people starting to trend toward less known brands like Asus and TP-Link. But too many of my customers think the electronics store is "Walmart" and they seem to come back with these Belkin pieces of crap, I particularly hate the model that only has 1 LED on the whole router and you have to interpret the color and number of flashes, it's like figuring out what R2D2 is saying. What's that R2? No link on port 3? -Original Message- From: Simon Westlake Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 11:04 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream I've honestly given up completely on all residential routers, they seem to be slowly converging on a common denominator which is that none of them work properly and only last a few months. I had to replace my router recently, and just got a Mikrotik instead. One of the guys I work with just replaced his old Linksys with a Mikrotik, and all of his minor problems went away. I used to think that it was a bad idea to provide managed routers to end users, but I'm slowly changing my mind after realizing how many issues are caused by them. There's also a lot you could do to provide better service to an end user, hypothetically.. let's say you put in a DD-WRT or Mikrotik router and setup some shaping on the client side with SFQ. They'd probably see a lot less issues with their Netflix buffering when their Xbox was downloading a game, or their VoIP cutting out when they're watching Daredevil in 4K. On 1/1/2016 10:05 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: I had a bad dream where all my customers go to Walmart and buy Belkin routers. I tried to wake up but I wasn't dreaming. Aaaa! -- Simon Westlake Skype: Simon_Sonar Email: simon@sonar.software Phone: (702) 447-1247 --- Sonar Software Inc The next generation of ISP billing and OSS https://sonar.software
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
I hear you. My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my customers. Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim. I would like to use MikroTik and manage the routing, but I'm finding that it's still best to get a really nice $100-$300+ single Wireless AC router and place it in the center of the house. What I would really like is a good split solution with routing in the head/basement, and wireless AC in bridge mode in one or two places in the house. But that doesn't seem to exist. -Original Message- From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 10:30 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed Mikrotik from us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been very trouble free for us once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters. I think they look at the pile of discarded routers in their closet and decide to let someone else deal with it. Most still fall into either the "I can buy one at Walmart for $50" camp or the "I like going to Best Buy and letting the sales guy talk me into the $250 router because I like shopping for expensive toys" camp. And people still look at the humble little white Mikrotik in its plain brown box and think it can't possibly match their big black AC1900 router that looks like a weapon from Star Wars. The question I guess is whether to join the cable/telco crowd and supply the WiFi router and manage it for no additional revenue, and then what to do about the people who still want to put their own Star Wars router behind it. It is very disappointing that since Belkin bought Linksys they are now designing their own Linksys branded routers that are far worse than the Linksys designed E series which certainly had their own problems. I replaced a customer's Belksys AC1900 router with a Mikrotik this week and they went from having total dead spots in parts of their house on both 2.4 and 5 GHz to having full bars and great performance everywhere including the basement. Their minds were boggled at this little white box with no external antennas blowing away the big black monster. Of the household brands, Netgear doesn't seem all that bad, except their low end WNR2000 has a really high failure rate. I see people starting to trend toward less known brands like Asus and TP-Link. But too many of my customers think the electronics store is "Walmart" and they seem to come back with these Belkin pieces of crap, I particularly hate the model that only has 1 LED on the whole router and you have to interpret the color and number of flashes, it's like figuring out what R2D2 is saying. What's that R2? No link on port 3? -Original Message- From: Simon Westlake Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 11:04 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream I've honestly given up completely on all residential routers, they seem to be slowly converging on a common denominator which is that none of them work properly and only last a few months. I had to replace my router recently, and just got a Mikrotik instead. One of the guys I work with just replaced his old Linksys with a Mikrotik, and all of his minor problems went away. I used to think that it was a bad idea to provide managed routers to end users, but I'm slowly changing my mind after realizing how many issues are caused by them. There's also a lot you could do to provide better service to an end user, hypothetically.. let's say you put in a DD-WRT or Mikrotik router and setup some shaping on the client side with SFQ. They'd probably see a lot less issues with their Netflix buffering when their Xbox was downloading a game, or their VoIP cutting out when they're watching Daredevil in 4K. On 1/1/2016 10:05 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > I had a bad dream where all my customers go to Walmart and buy Belkin > routers. I tried to wake up but I wasn't dreaming. Aaaa! > -- Simon Westlake Skype: Simon_Sonar Email: simon@sonar.software Phone: (702) 447-1247 --- Sonar Software Inc The next generation of ISP billing and OSS https://sonar.software
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
R201 for 802.11ac and then a wired only MT in the basement? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Jan 1, 2016 at 1:02 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote: > I hear you. > > My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my customers. > > Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim. > > I would like to use MikroTik and manage the routing, but I'm finding that > it's still best to get a really nice $100-$300+ single Wireless AC router > and place it in the center of the house. > > What I would really like is a good split solution with routing in the > head/basement, and wireless AC in bridge mode in one or two places in the > house. > > But that doesn't seem to exist. > > -Original Message- > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof > Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 10:30 AM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream > > I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed Mikrotik from > us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been very trouble free for > us once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters. I think they look at the pile > of discarded routers in their closet and decide to let someone else deal > with it. Most still fall into either the "I can buy one at Walmart for > $50" camp or the "I like going to Best Buy and letting the sales guy talk > me into the > $250 router because I like shopping for expensive toys" camp. And people > still look at the humble little white Mikrotik in its plain brown box and > think it can't possibly match their big black AC1900 router that looks like > a weapon from Star Wars. > > The question I guess is whether to join the cable/telco crowd and supply > the WiFi router and manage it for no additional revenue, and then what to > do about the people who still want to put their own Star Wars router behind > it. > > It is very disappointing that since Belkin bought Linksys they are now > designing their own Linksys branded routers that are far worse than the > Linksys designed E series which certainly had their own problems. I > replaced a customer's Belksys AC1900 router with a Mikrotik this week and > they went from having total dead spots in parts of their house on both 2.4 > and 5 GHz to having full bars and great performance everywhere including > the basement. Their minds were boggled at this little white box with no > external antennas blowing away the big black monster. > > Of the household brands, Netgear doesn't seem all that bad, except their > low end WNR2000 has a really high failure rate. I see people starting to > trend toward less known brands like Asus and TP-Link. But too many of my > customers think the electronics store is "Walmart" and they seem to come > back with these Belkin pieces of crap, I particularly hate the model that > only has 1 LED on the whole router and you have to interpret the color and > number of flashes, it's like figuring out what R2D2 is saying. What's that > R2? No link on port 3? > > > -Original Message- > From: Simon Westlake > Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 11:04 AM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream > > I've honestly given up completely on all residential routers, they seem to > be slowly converging on a common denominator which is that none of them > work properly and only last a few months. I had to replace my router > recently, and just got a Mikrotik instead. One of the guys I work with just > replaced his old Linksys with a Mikrotik, and all of his minor problems > went away. > > I used to think that it was a bad idea to provide managed routers to end > users, but I'm slowly changing my mind after realizing how many issues are > caused by them. There's also a lot you could do to provide better service > to an end user, hypothetically.. let's say you put in a DD-WRT or Mikrotik > router and setup some shaping on the client side with SFQ. > They'd probably see a lot less issues with their Netflix buffering when > their Xbox was downloading a game, or their VoIP cutting out when they're > watching Daredevil in 4K. > > On 1/1/2016 10:05 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > > I had a bad dream where all my customers go to Walmart and buy Belkin > > routers. I tried to wake up but I wasn't dreaming. > Aaaa! > > > > -- > Simon Westlake > Skype: Simon_Sonar > Email: simon@sonar.software > Phone: (702) 447-1247 > --- > Sonar Software Inc > The next generation of ISP billing and OSS https://sonar.software > > >
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Anecdotally, I've seen that for most people I know that have limited technical knowledge, if you give them a wireless router with a sticker on it that has the SSID and WPA key, they just use it. As long as it works, they don't see the value in a different one. I'm sure there are those out there that hem and haw about paying $5 a month because it's a choice. But when you just give it to them, and show them how to connect to it, they forget about it. So I guess the question becomes, can you generate more revenue from $5 a month vs the additional cost of providing tech support to tell people to buy a new Belkin router? I don't know the answer, and it's probably different per ISP, but I'd hazard a guess that just throwing in a cheap Mikrotik and making it a compulsory part of service would reduce support calls significantly. On 1/1/2016 11:30 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed Mikrotik from us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been very trouble free for us once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters. I think they look at the pile of discarded routers in their closet and decide to let someone else deal with it. Most still fall into either the "I can buy one at Walmart for $50" camp or the "I like going to Best Buy and letting the sales guy talk me into the $250 router because I like shopping for expensive toys" camp. And people still look at the humble little white Mikrotik in its plain brown box and think it can't possibly match their big black AC1900 router that looks like a weapon from Star Wars. The question I guess is whether to join the cable/telco crowd and supply the WiFi router and manage it for no additional revenue, and then what to do about the people who still want to put their own Star Wars router behind it. It is very disappointing that since Belkin bought Linksys they are now designing their own Linksys branded routers that are far worse than the Linksys designed E series which certainly had their own problems. I replaced a customer's Belksys AC1900 router with a Mikrotik this week and they went from having total dead spots in parts of their house on both 2.4 and 5 GHz to having full bars and great performance everywhere including the basement. Their minds were boggled at this little white box with no external antennas blowing away the big black monster. Of the household brands, Netgear doesn't seem all that bad, except their low end WNR2000 has a really high failure rate. I see people starting to trend toward less known brands like Asus and TP-Link. But too many of my customers think the electronics store is "Walmart" and they seem to come back with these Belkin pieces of crap, I particularly hate the model that only has 1 LED on the whole router and you have to interpret the color and number of flashes, it's like figuring out what R2D2 is saying. What's that R2? No link on port 3? -Original Message----- From: Simon Westlake Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 11:04 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream I've honestly given up completely on all residential routers, they seem to be slowly converging on a common denominator which is that none of them work properly and only last a few months. I had to replace my router recently, and just got a Mikrotik instead. One of the guys I work with just replaced his old Linksys with a Mikrotik, and all of his minor problems went away. I used to think that it was a bad idea to provide managed routers to end users, but I'm slowly changing my mind after realizing how many issues are caused by them. There's also a lot you could do to provide better service to an end user, hypothetically.. let's say you put in a DD-WRT or Mikrotik router and setup some shaping on the client side with SFQ. They'd probably see a lot less issues with their Netflix buffering when their Xbox was downloading a game, or their VoIP cutting out when they're watching Daredevil in 4K. On 1/1/2016 10:05 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: I had a bad dream where all my customers go to Walmart and buy Belkin routers. I tried to wake up but I wasn't dreaming. Aaaa! -- Simon Westlake Skype: Simon_Sonar Email: simon@sonar.software Phone: (702) 447-1247 --- Sonar Software Inc The next generation of ISP billing and OSS https://sonar.software
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Working on that with a vendor guys, stay tuned. (And no, its probably not who you think it is.) On Jan 1, 2016 12:02 PM, "Sterling Jacobson" wrote: > I hear you. > > My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my customers. > > Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim. > > I would like to use MikroTik and manage the routing, but I'm finding that > it's still best to get a really nice $100-$300+ single Wireless AC router > and place it in the center of the house. > > What I would really like is a good split solution with routing in the > head/basement, and wireless AC in bridge mode in one or two places in the > house. > > But that doesn't seem to exist. > > -Original Message- > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof > Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 10:30 AM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream > > I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed Mikrotik from > us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been very trouble free for > us once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters. I think they look at the pile > of discarded routers in their closet and decide to let someone else deal > with it. Most still fall into either the "I can buy one at Walmart for > $50" camp or the "I like going to Best Buy and letting the sales guy talk > me into the > $250 router because I like shopping for expensive toys" camp. And people > still look at the humble little white Mikrotik in its plain brown box and > think it can't possibly match their big black AC1900 router that looks like > a weapon from Star Wars. > > The question I guess is whether to join the cable/telco crowd and supply > the WiFi router and manage it for no additional revenue, and then what to > do about the people who still want to put their own Star Wars router behind > it. > > It is very disappointing that since Belkin bought Linksys they are now > designing their own Linksys branded routers that are far worse than the > Linksys designed E series which certainly had their own problems. I > replaced a customer's Belksys AC1900 router with a Mikrotik this week and > they went from having total dead spots in parts of their house on both 2.4 > and 5 GHz to having full bars and great performance everywhere including > the basement. Their minds were boggled at this little white box with no > external antennas blowing away the big black monster. > > Of the household brands, Netgear doesn't seem all that bad, except their > low end WNR2000 has a really high failure rate. I see people starting to > trend toward less known brands like Asus and TP-Link. But too many of my > customers think the electronics store is "Walmart" and they seem to come > back with these Belkin pieces of crap, I particularly hate the model that > only has 1 LED on the whole router and you have to interpret the color and > number of flashes, it's like figuring out what R2D2 is saying. What's that > R2? No link on port 3? > > > -Original Message- > From: Simon Westlake > Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 11:04 AM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream > > I've honestly given up completely on all residential routers, they seem to > be slowly converging on a common denominator which is that none of them > work properly and only last a few months. I had to replace my router > recently, and just got a Mikrotik instead. One of the guys I work with just > replaced his old Linksys with a Mikrotik, and all of his minor problems > went away. > > I used to think that it was a bad idea to provide managed routers to end > users, but I'm slowly changing my mind after realizing how many issues are > caused by them. There's also a lot you could do to provide better service > to an end user, hypothetically.. let's say you put in a DD-WRT or Mikrotik > router and setup some shaping on the client side with SFQ. > They'd probably see a lot less issues with their Netflix buffering when > their Xbox was downloading a game, or their VoIP cutting out when they're > watching Daredevil in 4K. > > On 1/1/2016 10:05 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > > I had a bad dream where all my customers go to Walmart and buy Belkin > > routers. I tried to wake up but I wasn't dreaming. > Aaaa! > > > > -- > Simon Westlake > Skype: Simon_Sonar > Email: simon@sonar.software > Phone: (702) 447-1247 > --- > Sonar Software Inc > The next generation of ISP billing and OSS https://sonar.software > > >
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Is it Calix???
On 1/1/2016 12:40 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
Working on that with a vendor guys, stay tuned. (And no, its probably
not who you think it is.)
On Jan 1, 2016 12:02 PM, "Sterling Jacobson" <mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:
I hear you.
My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my customers.
Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim.
I would like to use MikroTik and manage the routing, but I'm
finding that it's still best to get a really nice $100-$300+
single Wireless AC router and place it in the center of the house.
What I would really like is a good split solution with routing in
the head/basement, and wireless AC in bridge mode in one or two
places in the house.
But that doesn't seem to exist.
-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 10:30 AM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed
Mikrotik from us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been
very trouble free for us once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters.
I think they look at the pile of discarded routers in their closet
and decide to let someone else deal with it. Most still fall into
either the "I can buy one at Walmart for $50" camp or the "I like
going to Best Buy and letting the sales guy talk me into the
$250 router because I like shopping for expensive toys" camp. And
people still look at the humble little white Mikrotik in its plain
brown box and think it can't possibly match their big black AC1900
router that looks like a weapon from Star Wars.
The question I guess is whether to join the cable/telco crowd and
supply the WiFi router and manage it for no additional revenue,
and then what to do about the people who still want to put their
own Star Wars router behind it.
It is very disappointing that since Belkin bought Linksys they are
now designing their own Linksys branded routers that are far worse
than the Linksys designed E series which certainly had their own
problems. I replaced a customer's Belksys AC1900 router with a
Mikrotik this week and they went from having total dead spots in
parts of their house on both 2.4 and 5 GHz to having full bars and
great performance everywhere including the basement. Their minds
were boggled at this little white box with no external antennas
blowing away the big black monster.
Of the household brands, Netgear doesn't seem all that bad, except
their low end WNR2000 has a really high failure rate. I see people
starting to trend toward less known brands like Asus and TP-Link.
But too many of my customers think the electronics store is
"Walmart" and they seem to come back with these Belkin pieces of
crap, I particularly hate the model that only has 1 LED on the
whole router and you have to interpret the color and number of
flashes, it's like figuring out what R2D2 is saying. What's that
R2? No link on port 3?
-Original Message-
From: Simon Westlake
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 11:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
I've honestly given up completely on all residential routers, they
seem to be slowly converging on a common denominator which is that
none of them work properly and only last a few months. I had to
replace my router recently, and just got a Mikrotik instead. One
of the guys I work with just replaced his old Linksys with a
Mikrotik, and all of his minor problems went away.
I used to think that it was a bad idea to provide managed routers
to end users, but I'm slowly changing my mind after realizing how
many issues are caused by them. There's also a lot you could do to
provide better service to an end user, hypothetically.. let's say
you put in a DD-WRT or Mikrotik router and setup some shaping on
the client side with SFQ.
They'd probably see a lot less issues with their Netflix buffering
when their Xbox was downloading a game, or their VoIP cutting out
when they're watching Daredevil in 4K.
On 1/1/2016 10:05 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> I had a bad dream where all my customers go to Walmart and buy
Belkin
> routers. I tried to wake up but I wasn't dreaming.
Aaaa!
>
--
Simon Westlake
Skype: Simon_Sonar
Email: simon@sonar.software
Phone: (702) 447-1247
---
Sonar Software Inc
The next generation of ISP billing and OSS https://sonar.software
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Negative On Jan 1, 2016 12:47 PM, "Simon Westlake" wrote: > Is it Calix??? > > On 1/1/2016 12:40 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote: > > Working on that with a vendor guys, stay tuned. (And no, its probably not > who you think it is.) > On Jan 1, 2016 12:02 PM, "Sterling Jacobson" wrote: > >> I hear you. >> >> My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my customers. >> >> Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim. >> >> I would like to use MikroTik and manage the routing, but I'm finding that >> it's still best to get a really nice $100-$300+ single Wireless AC router >> and place it in the center of the house. >> >> What I would really like is a good split solution with routing in the >> head/basement, and wireless AC in bridge mode in one or two places in the >> house. >> >> But that doesn't seem to exist. >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof >> Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 10:30 AM >> To: af@afmug.com >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >> >> I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed Mikrotik >> from us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been very trouble free >> for us once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters. I think they look at the >> pile of discarded routers in their closet and decide to let someone else >> deal with it. Most still fall into either the "I can buy one at Walmart >> for $50" camp or the "I like going to Best Buy and letting the sales guy >> talk me into the >> $250 router because I like shopping for expensive toys" camp. And people >> still look at the humble little white Mikrotik in its plain brown box and >> think it can't possibly match their big black AC1900 router that looks like >> a weapon from Star Wars. >> >> The question I guess is whether to join the cable/telco crowd and supply >> the WiFi router and manage it for no additional revenue, and then what to >> do about the people who still want to put their own Star Wars router behind >> it. >> >> It is very disappointing that since Belkin bought Linksys they are now >> designing their own Linksys branded routers that are far worse than the >> Linksys designed E series which certainly had their own problems. I >> replaced a customer's Belksys AC1900 router with a Mikrotik this week and >> they went from having total dead spots in parts of their house on both 2.4 >> and 5 GHz to having full bars and great performance everywhere including >> the basement. Their minds were boggled at this little white box with no >> external antennas blowing away the big black monster. >> >> Of the household brands, Netgear doesn't seem all that bad, except their >> low end WNR2000 has a really high failure rate. I see people starting to >> trend toward less known brands like Asus and TP-Link. But too many of my >> customers think the electronics store is "Walmart" and they seem to come >> back with these Belkin pieces of crap, I particularly hate the model that >> only has 1 LED on the whole router and you have to interpret the color and >> number of flashes, it's like figuring out what R2D2 is saying. What's that >> R2? No link on port 3? >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Simon Westlake >> Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 11:04 AM >> To: af@afmug.com >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >> >> I've honestly given up completely on all residential routers, they seem >> to be slowly converging on a common denominator which is that none of them >> work properly and only last a few months. I had to replace my router >> recently, and just got a Mikrotik instead. One of the guys I work with just >> replaced his old Linksys with a Mikrotik, and all of his minor problems >> went away. >> >> I used to think that it was a bad idea to provide managed routers to end >> users, but I'm slowly changing my mind after realizing how many issues are >> caused by them. There's also a lot you could do to provide better service >> to an end user, hypothetically.. let's say you put in a DD-WRT or Mikrotik >> router and setup some shaping on the client side with SFQ. >> They'd probably see a lot less issues with their Netflix buffering when >> their Xbox was downloading a game, or their VoIP cutting out when they're >> watching Daredevil in 4K. >> >> On 1/1/2016 10:05 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: >> > I had a bad dream where all my customers go to Walmart and buy Belkin >> > routers. I tried to wake up but I wasn't dreaming. >> Aaaa! >> > >> >> -- >> Simon Westlake >> Skype: Simon_Sonar >> Email: simon@sonar.software >> Phone: (702) 447-1247 <%28702%29%20447-1247> >> --- >> Sonar Software Inc >> The next generation of ISP billing and OSS https://sonar.software >> >> >> > -- > Simon Westlake > Skype: Simon_Sonar > Email: simon@sonar.software > Phone: (702) 447-1247 > --- > Sonar Software Inc > The next generation of ISP billing and OSShttps://sonar.software > >
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Im looking for this too Josh, keep me posted. On Jan 1, 2016 1:40 PM, "Josh Reynolds" wrote: > Working on that with a vendor guys, stay tuned. (And no, its probably not > who you think it is.) > On Jan 1, 2016 12:02 PM, "Sterling Jacobson" wrote: > >> I hear you. >> >> My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my customers. >> >> Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim. >> >> I would like to use MikroTik and manage the routing, but I'm finding that >> it's still best to get a really nice $100-$300+ single Wireless AC router >> and place it in the center of the house. >> >> What I would really like is a good split solution with routing in the >> head/basement, and wireless AC in bridge mode in one or two places in the >> house. >> >> But that doesn't seem to exist. >> >> -Original Message----- >> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof >> Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 10:30 AM >> To: af@afmug.com >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >> >> I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed Mikrotik >> from us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been very trouble free >> for us once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters. I think they look at the >> pile of discarded routers in their closet and decide to let someone else >> deal with it. Most still fall into either the "I can buy one at Walmart >> for $50" camp or the "I like going to Best Buy and letting the sales guy >> talk me into the >> $250 router because I like shopping for expensive toys" camp. And people >> still look at the humble little white Mikrotik in its plain brown box and >> think it can't possibly match their big black AC1900 router that looks like >> a weapon from Star Wars. >> >> The question I guess is whether to join the cable/telco crowd and supply >> the WiFi router and manage it for no additional revenue, and then what to >> do about the people who still want to put their own Star Wars router behind >> it. >> >> It is very disappointing that since Belkin bought Linksys they are now >> designing their own Linksys branded routers that are far worse than the >> Linksys designed E series which certainly had their own problems. I >> replaced a customer's Belksys AC1900 router with a Mikrotik this week and >> they went from having total dead spots in parts of their house on both 2.4 >> and 5 GHz to having full bars and great performance everywhere including >> the basement. Their minds were boggled at this little white box with no >> external antennas blowing away the big black monster. >> >> Of the household brands, Netgear doesn't seem all that bad, except their >> low end WNR2000 has a really high failure rate. I see people starting to >> trend toward less known brands like Asus and TP-Link. But too many of my >> customers think the electronics store is "Walmart" and they seem to come >> back with these Belkin pieces of crap, I particularly hate the model that >> only has 1 LED on the whole router and you have to interpret the color and >> number of flashes, it's like figuring out what R2D2 is saying. What's that >> R2? No link on port 3? >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Simon Westlake >> Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 11:04 AM >> To: af@afmug.com >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >> >> I've honestly given up completely on all residential routers, they seem >> to be slowly converging on a common denominator which is that none of them >> work properly and only last a few months. I had to replace my router >> recently, and just got a Mikrotik instead. One of the guys I work with just >> replaced his old Linksys with a Mikrotik, and all of his minor problems >> went away. >> >> I used to think that it was a bad idea to provide managed routers to end >> users, but I'm slowly changing my mind after realizing how many issues are >> caused by them. There's also a lot you could do to provide better service >> to an end user, hypothetically.. let's say you put in a DD-WRT or Mikrotik >> router and setup some shaping on the client side with SFQ. >> They'd probably see a lot less issues with their Netflix buffering when >> their Xbox was downloading a game, or their VoIP cutting out when they're >> watching Daredevil in 4K. >> >> On 1/1/2016 10:05 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: >> > I had a bad dream where all my customers go to Walmart and buy Belkin >> > routers. I tried to wake up but I wasn't dreaming. >> Aaaa! >> > >> >> -- >> Simon Westlake >> Skype: Simon_Sonar >> Email: simon@sonar.software >> Phone: (702) 447-1247 >> --- >> Sonar Software Inc >> The next generation of ISP billing and OSS https://sonar.software >> >> >>
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Calix can do all that and a whole lot more sterling On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson wrote: > I hear you. > > My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my customers. > > Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim. > > I would like to use MikroTik and manage the routing, but I'm finding that > it's still best to get a really nice $100-$300+ single Wireless AC router > and place it in the center of the house. > > What I would really like is a good split solution with routing in the > head/basement, and wireless AC in bridge mode in one or two places in the > house. > > But that doesn't seem to exist. > > -Original Message- > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Ken > Hohhof > Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 10:30 AM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream > > I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed Mikrotik from > us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been very trouble free for > us once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters. I think they look at the pile > of discarded routers in their closet and decide to let someone else deal > with it. Most still fall into either the "I can buy one at Walmart for > $50" camp or the "I like going to Best Buy and letting the sales guy talk > me into the > $250 router because I like shopping for expensive toys" camp. And people > still look at the humble little white Mikrotik in its plain brown box and > think it can't possibly match their big black AC1900 router that looks like > a weapon from Star Wars. > > The question I guess is whether to join the cable/telco crowd and supply > the WiFi router and manage it for no additional revenue, and then what to > do about the people who still want to put their own Star Wars router behind > it. > > It is very disappointing that since Belkin bought Linksys they are now > designing their own Linksys branded routers that are far worse than the > Linksys designed E series which certainly had their own problems. I > replaced a customer's Belksys AC1900 router with a Mikrotik this week and > they went from having total dead spots in parts of their house on both 2.4 > and 5 GHz to having full bars and great performance everywhere including > the basement. Their minds were boggled at this little white box with no > external antennas blowing away the big black monster. > > Of the household brands, Netgear doesn't seem all that bad, except their > low end WNR2000 has a really high failure rate. I see people starting to > trend toward less known brands like Asus and TP-Link. But too many of my > customers think the electronics store is "Walmart" and they seem to come > back with these Belkin pieces of crap, I particularly hate the model that > only has 1 LED on the whole router and you have to interpret the color and > number of flashes, it's like figuring out what R2D2 is saying. What's that > R2? No link on port 3? > > > -Original Message- > From: Simon Westlake > Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 11:04 AM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream > > I've honestly given up completely on all residential routers, they seem to > be slowly converging on a common denominator which is that none of them > work properly and only last a few months. I had to replace my router > recently, and just got a Mikrotik instead. One of the guys I work with just > replaced his old Linksys with a Mikrotik, and all of his minor problems > went away. > > I used to think that it was a bad idea to provide managed routers to end > users, but I'm slowly changing my mind after realizing how many issues are > caused by them. There's also a lot you could do to provide better service > to an end user, hypothetically.. let's say you put in a DD-WRT or Mikrotik > router and setup some shaping on the client side with SFQ. > They'd probably see a lot less issues with their Netflix buffering when > their Xbox was downloading a game, or their VoIP cutting out when they're > watching Daredevil in 4K. > > On 1/1/2016 10:05 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > > I had a bad dream where all my customers go to Walmart and buy Belkin > > routers. I tried to wake up but I wasn't dreaming. > Aaaa! > > > > -- > Simon Westlake > Skype: Simon_Sonar > Email: simon@sonar.software > Phone: (702) 447-1247 > --- > Sonar Software Inc > The next generation of ISP billing and OSS https://sonar.software > > >
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Yep, I am building a POE adapter for the gigacenter too... Love their flow software. From: Sean Heskett Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 2:24 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream Calix can do all that and a whole lot more sterling On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson wrote: I hear you. My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my customers. Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim. I would like to use MikroTik and manage the routing, but I'm finding that it's still best to get a really nice $100-$300+ single Wireless AC router and place it in the center of the house. What I would really like is a good split solution with routing in the head/basement, and wireless AC in bridge mode in one or two places in the house. But that doesn't seem to exist. -Original Message- From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 10:30 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed Mikrotik from us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been very trouble free for us once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters. I think they look at the pile of discarded routers in their closet and decide to let someone else deal with it. Most still fall into either the "I can buy one at Walmart for $50" camp or the "I like going to Best Buy and letting the sales guy talk me into the $250 router because I like shopping for expensive toys" camp. And people still look at the humble little white Mikrotik in its plain brown box and think it can't possibly match their big black AC1900 router that looks like a weapon from Star Wars. The question I guess is whether to join the cable/telco crowd and supply the WiFi router and manage it for no additional revenue, and then what to do about the people who still want to put their own Star Wars router behind it. It is very disappointing that since Belkin bought Linksys they are now designing their own Linksys branded routers that are far worse than the Linksys designed E series which certainly had their own problems. I replaced a customer's Belksys AC1900 router with a Mikrotik this week and they went from having total dead spots in parts of their house on both 2.4 and 5 GHz to having full bars and great performance everywhere including the basement. Their minds were boggled at this little white box with no external antennas blowing away the big black monster. Of the household brands, Netgear doesn't seem all that bad, except their low end WNR2000 has a really high failure rate. I see people starting to trend toward less known brands like Asus and TP-Link. But too many of my customers think the electronics store is "Walmart" and they seem to come back with these Belkin pieces of crap, I particularly hate the model that only has 1 LED on the whole router and you have to interpret the color and number of flashes, it's like figuring out what R2D2 is saying. What's that R2? No link on port 3? -Original Message- From: Simon Westlake Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 11:04 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream I've honestly given up completely on all residential routers, they seem to be slowly converging on a common denominator which is that none of them work properly and only last a few months. I had to replace my router recently, and just got a Mikrotik instead. One of the guys I work with just replaced his old Linksys with a Mikrotik, and all of his minor problems went away. I used to think that it was a bad idea to provide managed routers to end users, but I'm slowly changing my mind after realizing how many issues are caused by them. There's also a lot you could do to provide better service to an end user, hypothetically.. let's say you put in a DD-WRT or Mikrotik router and setup some shaping on the client side with SFQ. They'd probably see a lot less issues with their Netflix buffering when their Xbox was downloading a game, or their VoIP cutting out when they're watching Daredevil in 4K. On 1/1/2016 10:05 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > I had a bad dream where all my customers go to Walmart and buy Belkin > routers. I tried to wake up but I wasn't dreaming. Aaaa! > -- Simon Westlake Skype: Simon_Sonar Email: simon@sonar.software Phone: (702) 447-1247 --- Sonar Software Inc The next generation of ISP billing and OSS https://sonar.software
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
I find it interesting that people practically demand as their right a minimum of gigabit Internet, but do they wire their new houses with fiber or Cat6 to every room so they can actually use that gigabit connection? Nope. Just like they throw a fit if their ISP has any kind of outage, but do they buy a UPS or generator for power outages? Nope. Drives me crazy when I log into towers running on batteries and see zero customers connected. It’s the end of the freaking world if their Internet goes down, but if their power is off, then it’s no big deal. Probably because they use their cellphones, or drive somewhere else because they don’t want to be at home with no lights or heat. But if there’s a raging storm outside, we’re supposed to climb the tower in the dark or set up a portable generator in the rain because they can’t live without Netflix. I suppose they also believe because their router says “AC3400” on the box that means they have 3.4 gig of bandwidth everywhere in their house. Apparently the government is not concerned about the outrageous claims for WiFi router speeds. But if someone speedtests their 1 gig Internet service at 900 meg, it’s time to lodge a complaint against their ISP, for not delivering advertised speeds, or throttling, or violating human rights. From: Sean Heskett Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 3:24 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream Calix can do all that and a whole lot more sterling On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson wrote: I hear you. My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my customers. Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim. I would like to use MikroTik and manage the routing, but I'm finding that it's still best to get a really nice $100-$300+ single Wireless AC router and place it in the center of the house. What I would really like is a good split solution with routing in the head/basement, and wireless AC in bridge mode in one or two places in the house. But that doesn't seem to exist. -Original Message- From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 10:30 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed Mikrotik from us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been very trouble free for us once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters. I think they look at the pile of discarded routers in their closet and decide to let someone else deal with it. Most still fall into either the "I can buy one at Walmart for $50" camp or the "I like going to Best Buy and letting the sales guy talk me into the $250 router because I like shopping for expensive toys" camp. And people still look at the humble little white Mikrotik in its plain brown box and think it can't possibly match their big black AC1900 router that looks like a weapon from Star Wars. The question I guess is whether to join the cable/telco crowd and supply the WiFi router and manage it for no additional revenue, and then what to do about the people who still want to put their own Star Wars router behind it. It is very disappointing that since Belkin bought Linksys they are now designing their own Linksys branded routers that are far worse than the Linksys designed E series which certainly had their own problems. I replaced a customer's Belksys AC1900 router with a Mikrotik this week and they went from having total dead spots in parts of their house on both 2.4 and 5 GHz to having full bars and great performance everywhere including the basement. Their minds were boggled at this little white box with no external antennas blowing away the big black monster. Of the household brands, Netgear doesn't seem all that bad, except their low end WNR2000 has a really high failure rate. I see people starting to trend toward less known brands like Asus and TP-Link. But too many of my customers think the electronics store is "Walmart" and they seem to come back with these Belkin pieces of crap, I particularly hate the model that only has 1 LED on the whole router and you have to interpret the color and number of flashes, it's like figuring out what R2D2 is saying. What's that R2? No link on port 3? -Original Message- From: Simon Westlake Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 11:04 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream I've honestly given up completely on all residential routers, they seem to be slowly converging on a common denominator which is that none of them work properly and only last a few months. I had to replace my router recently, and just got a Mikrotik instead. One of the guys I work with just replaced his old Linksys with a Mikrotik, and all of his minor problems went away. I used to think that it was a bad
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
For $200? From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sean Heskett Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 2:24 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream Calix can do all that and a whole lot more sterling On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote: I hear you. My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my customers. Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim. I would like to use MikroTik and manage the routing, but I'm finding that it's still best to get a really nice $100-$300+ single Wireless AC router and place it in the center of the house. What I would really like is a good split solution with routing in the head/basement, and wireless AC in bridge mode in one or two places in the house. But that doesn't seem to exist. -Original Message- From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 10:30 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed Mikrotik from us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been very trouble free for us once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters. I think they look at the pile of discarded routers in their closet and decide to let someone else deal with it. Most still fall into either the "I can buy one at Walmart for $50" camp or the "I like going to Best Buy and letting the sales guy talk me into the $250 router because I like shopping for expensive toys" camp. And people still look at the humble little white Mikrotik in its plain brown box and think it can't possibly match their big black AC1900 router that looks like a weapon from Star Wars. The question I guess is whether to join the cable/telco crowd and supply the WiFi router and manage it for no additional revenue, and then what to do about the people who still want to put their own Star Wars router behind it. It is very disappointing that since Belkin bought Linksys they are now designing their own Linksys branded routers that are far worse than the Linksys designed E series which certainly had their own problems. I replaced a customer's Belksys AC1900 router with a Mikrotik this week and they went from having total dead spots in parts of their house on both 2.4 and 5 GHz to having full bars and great performance everywhere including the basement. Their minds were boggled at this little white box with no external antennas blowing away the big black monster. Of the household brands, Netgear doesn't seem all that bad, except their low end WNR2000 has a really high failure rate. I see people starting to trend toward less known brands like Asus and TP-Link. But too many of my customers think the electronics store is "Walmart" and they seem to come back with these Belkin pieces of crap, I particularly hate the model that only has 1 LED on the whole router and you have to interpret the color and number of flashes, it's like figuring out what R2D2 is saying. What's that R2? No link on port 3? -Original Message- From: Simon Westlake Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 11:04 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream I've honestly given up completely on all residential routers, they seem to be slowly converging on a common denominator which is that none of them work properly and only last a few months. I had to replace my router recently, and just got a Mikrotik instead. One of the guys I work with just replaced his old Linksys with a Mikrotik, and all of his minor problems went away. I used to think that it was a bad idea to provide managed routers to end users, but I'm slowly changing my mind after realizing how many issues are caused by them. There's also a lot you could do to provide better service to an end user, hypothetically.. let's say you put in a DD-WRT or Mikrotik router and setup some shaping on the client side with SFQ. They'd probably see a lot less issues with their Netflix buffering when their Xbox was downloading a game, or their VoIP cutting out when they're watching Daredevil in 4K. On 1/1/2016 10:05 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > I had a bad dream where all my customers go to Walmart and buy Belkin > routers. I tried to wake up but I wasn't dreaming. Aaaa! > -- Simon Westlake Skype: Simon_Sonar Email: simon@sonar.software<mailto:simon@sonar.software> Phone: (702) 447-1247 --- Sonar Software Inc The next generation of ISP billing and OSS https://sonar.software
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
I will have to check. I was thinking we get them for $186 but not totally sure about that figure. From: Sterling Jacobson Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 3:06 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream For $200? From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sean Heskett Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 2:24 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream Calix can do all that and a whole lot more sterling On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson wrote: I hear you. My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my customers. Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim. I would like to use MikroTik and manage the routing, but I'm finding that it's still best to get a really nice $100-$300+ single Wireless AC router and place it in the center of the house. What I would really like is a good split solution with routing in the head/basement, and wireless AC in bridge mode in one or two places in the house. But that doesn't seem to exist. -Original Message- From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 10:30 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed Mikrotik from us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been very trouble free for us once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters. I think they look at the pile of discarded routers in their closet and decide to let someone else deal with it. Most still fall into either the "I can buy one at Walmart for $50" camp or the "I like going to Best Buy and letting the sales guy talk me into the $250 router because I like shopping for expensive toys" camp. And people still look at the humble little white Mikrotik in its plain brown box and think it can't possibly match their big black AC1900 router that looks like a weapon from Star Wars. The question I guess is whether to join the cable/telco crowd and supply the WiFi router and manage it for no additional revenue, and then what to do about the people who still want to put their own Star Wars router behind it. It is very disappointing that since Belkin bought Linksys they are now designing their own Linksys branded routers that are far worse than the Linksys designed E series which certainly had their own problems. I replaced a customer's Belksys AC1900 router with a Mikrotik this week and they went from having total dead spots in parts of their house on both 2.4 and 5 GHz to having full bars and great performance everywhere including the basement. Their minds were boggled at this little white box with no external antennas blowing away the big black monster. Of the household brands, Netgear doesn't seem all that bad, except their low end WNR2000 has a really high failure rate. I see people starting to trend toward less known brands like Asus and TP-Link. But too many of my customers think the electronics store is "Walmart" and they seem to come back with these Belkin pieces of crap, I particularly hate the model that only has 1 LED on the whole router and you have to interpret the color and number of flashes, it's like figuring out what R2D2 is saying. What's that R2? No link on port 3? -Original Message- From: Simon Westlake Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 11:04 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream I've honestly given up completely on all residential routers, they seem to be slowly converging on a common denominator which is that none of them work properly and only last a few months. I had to replace my router recently, and just got a Mikrotik instead. One of the guys I work with just replaced his old Linksys with a Mikrotik, and all of his minor problems went away. I used to think that it was a bad idea to provide managed routers to end users, but I'm slowly changing my mind after realizing how many issues are caused by them. There's also a lot you could do to provide better service to an end user, hypothetically.. let's say you put in a DD-WRT or Mikrotik router and setup some shaping on the client side with SFQ. They'd probably see a lot less issues with their Netflix buffering when their Xbox was downloading a game, or their VoIP cutting out when they're watching Daredevil in 4K. On 1/1/2016 10:05 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > I had a bad dream where all my customers go to Walmart and buy Belkin > routers. I tried to wake up but I wasn't dreaming. Aaaa! > -- Simon Westlake Skype: Simon_Sonar Email: simon@sonar.software Phone: (702) 447-1247 --- Sonar Software Inc The next generation of ISP billing and OSS https://sonar.software
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
$149 On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson wrote: > For $200? > > > > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com > ] *On Behalf Of *Sean > Heskett > *Sent:* Friday, January 1, 2016 2:24 PM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream > > > > Calix can do all that and a whole lot more sterling > > > > > > On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson > wrote: > > I hear you. > > My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my customers. > > Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim. > > I would like to use MikroTik and manage the routing, but I'm finding that > it's still best to get a really nice $100-$300+ single Wireless AC router > and place it in the center of the house. > > What I would really like is a good split solution with routing in the > head/basement, and wireless AC in bridge mode in one or two places in the > house. > > But that doesn't seem to exist. > > -Original Message- > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof > Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 10:30 AM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream > > I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed Mikrotik from > us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been very trouble free for > us once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters. I think they look at the pile > of discarded routers in their closet and decide to let someone else deal > with it. Most still fall into either the "I can buy one at Walmart for > $50" camp or the "I like going to Best Buy and letting the sales guy talk > me into the > $250 router because I like shopping for expensive toys" camp. And people > still look at the humble little white Mikrotik in its plain brown box and > think it can't possibly match their big black AC1900 router that looks like > a weapon from Star Wars. > > The question I guess is whether to join the cable/telco crowd and supply > the WiFi router and manage it for no additional revenue, and then what to > do about the people who still want to put their own Star Wars router behind > it. > > It is very disappointing that since Belkin bought Linksys they are now > designing their own Linksys branded routers that are far worse than the > Linksys designed E series which certainly had their own problems. I > replaced a customer's Belksys AC1900 router with a Mikrotik this week and > they went from having total dead spots in parts of their house on both 2.4 > and 5 GHz to having full bars and great performance everywhere including > the basement. Their minds were boggled at this little white box with no > external antennas blowing away the big black monster. > > Of the household brands, Netgear doesn't seem all that bad, except their > low end WNR2000 has a really high failure rate. I see people starting to > trend toward less known brands like Asus and TP-Link. But too many of my > customers think the electronics store is "Walmart" and they seem to come > back with these Belkin pieces of crap, I particularly hate the model that > only has 1 LED on the whole router and you have to interpret the color and > number of flashes, it's like figuring out what R2D2 is saying. What's that > R2? No link on port 3? > > > -Original Message- > From: Simon Westlake > Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 11:04 AM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream > > I've honestly given up completely on all residential routers, they seem to > be slowly converging on a common denominator which is that none of them > work properly and only last a few months. I had to replace my router > recently, and just got a Mikrotik instead. One of the guys I work with just > replaced his old Linksys with a Mikrotik, and all of his minor problems > went away. > > I used to think that it was a bad idea to provide managed routers to end > users, but I'm slowly changing my mind after realizing how many issues are > caused by them. There's also a lot you could do to provide better service > to an end user, hypothetically.. let's say you put in a DD-WRT or Mikrotik > router and setup some shaping on the client side with SFQ. > They'd probably see a lot less issues with their Netflix buffering when > their Xbox was downloading a game, or their VoIP cutting out when they're > watching Daredevil in 4K. > > On 1/1/2016 10:05 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > > I had a bad dream where all my customers go to Walmart and buy Belkin > > routers. I tried to wake up but I wasn't dreaming. > Aaaa! > > > > -- > Simon Westlake > Skype: Simon_Sonar > Email: simon@sonar.software > > Phone: (702) 447-1247 > --- > Sonar Software Inc > The next generation of ISP billing and OSS https://sonar.software > >
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Ok, do you have a link to information then? I’m not familiar with Calix for this particular solution, though I’ve heard of them. Also, I’m lazy ☺ From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sean Heskett Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 3:25 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream $149 On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote: For $200? From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sean Heskett Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 2:24 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream Calix can do all that and a whole lot more sterling On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson > wrote: I hear you. My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my customers. Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim. I would like to use MikroTik and manage the routing, but I'm finding that it's still best to get a really nice $100-$300+ single Wireless AC router and place it in the center of the house. What I would really like is a good split solution with routing in the head/basement, and wireless AC in bridge mode in one or two places in the house. But that doesn't seem to exist. -Original Message- From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 10:30 AM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed Mikrotik from us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been very trouble free for us once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters. I think they look at the pile of discarded routers in their closet and decide to let someone else deal with it. Most still fall into either the "I can buy one at Walmart for $50" camp or the "I like going to Best Buy and letting the sales guy talk me into the $250 router because I like shopping for expensive toys" camp. And people still look at the humble little white Mikrotik in its plain brown box and think it can't possibly match their big black AC1900 router that looks like a weapon from Star Wars. The question I guess is whether to join the cable/telco crowd and supply the WiFi router and manage it for no additional revenue, and then what to do about the people who still want to put their own Star Wars router behind it. It is very disappointing that since Belkin bought Linksys they are now designing their own Linksys branded routers that are far worse than the Linksys designed E series which certainly had their own problems. I replaced a customer's Belksys AC1900 router with a Mikrotik this week and they went from having total dead spots in parts of their house on both 2.4 and 5 GHz to having full bars and great performance everywhere including the basement. Their minds were boggled at this little white box with no external antennas blowing away the big black monster. Of the household brands, Netgear doesn't seem all that bad, except their low end WNR2000 has a really high failure rate. I see people starting to trend toward less known brands like Asus and TP-Link. But too many of my customers think the electronics store is "Walmart" and they seem to come back with these Belkin pieces of crap, I particularly hate the model that only has 1 LED on the whole router and you have to interpret the color and number of flashes, it's like figuring out what R2D2 is saying. What's that R2? No link on port 3? -Original Message- From: Simon Westlake Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 11:04 AM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream I've honestly given up completely on all residential routers, they seem to be slowly converging on a common denominator which is that none of them work properly and only last a few months. I had to replace my router recently, and just got a Mikrotik instead. One of the guys I work with just replaced his old Linksys with a Mikrotik, and all of his minor problems went away. I used to think that it was a bad idea to provide managed routers to end users, but I'm slowly changing my mind after realizing how many issues are caused by them. There's also a lot you could do to provide better service to an end user, hypothetically.. let's say you put in a DD-WRT or Mikrotik router and setup some shaping on the client side with SFQ. They'd probably see a lot less issues with their Netflix buffering when their Xbox was downloading a game, or their VoIP cutting out when they're watching Daredevil in 4K. On 1/1/2016 10:05 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > I had a bad dream where all my customers go to Walmart and buy Belkin > routers. I tried to wake up but I wasn't dreaming. Aaaa! > -- Simon Westlake Skype: Simon_Sonar Email: simon@sonar.software Phone: (702) 447-1247 --- Sonar Software Inc The next generation of ISP billing and OSS https://sonar.software
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
https://www.calix.com/systems/gigafamily-overview/GigaCenters.html
From: Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 3:36 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Ok, do you have a link to information then?
I’m not familiar with Calix for this particular solution, though I’ve heard of
them.
Also, I’m lazy J
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sean Heskett
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 3:25 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
$149
On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson wrote:
For $200?
From: Af [mailto:javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af-boun...@afmug.com');] On
Behalf Of Sean Heskett
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 2:24 PM
To: javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Calix can do all that and a whole lot more sterling
On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson
wrote:
I hear you.
My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my customers.
Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim.
I would like to use MikroTik and manage the routing, but I'm finding that
it's still best to get a really nice $100-$300+ single Wireless AC router and
place it in the center of the house.
What I would really like is a good split solution with routing in the
head/basement, and wireless AC in bridge mode in one or two places in the house.
But that doesn't seem to exist.
-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 10:30 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed Mikrotik from
us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been very trouble free for us
once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters. I think they look at the pile of
discarded routers in their closet and decide to let someone else deal with it.
Most still fall into either the "I can buy one at Walmart for $50" camp or the
"I like going to Best Buy and letting the sales guy talk me into the
$250 router because I like shopping for expensive toys" camp. And people
still look at the humble little white Mikrotik in its plain brown box and think
it can't possibly match their big black AC1900 router that looks like a weapon
from Star Wars.
The question I guess is whether to join the cable/telco crowd and supply
the WiFi router and manage it for no additional revenue, and then what to do
about the people who still want to put their own Star Wars router behind it.
It is very disappointing that since Belkin bought Linksys they are now
designing their own Linksys branded routers that are far worse than the Linksys
designed E series which certainly had their own problems. I replaced a
customer's Belksys AC1900 router with a Mikrotik this week and they went from
having total dead spots in parts of their house on both 2.4 and 5 GHz to having
full bars and great performance everywhere including the basement. Their minds
were boggled at this little white box with no external antennas blowing away
the big black monster.
Of the household brands, Netgear doesn't seem all that bad, except their
low end WNR2000 has a really high failure rate. I see people starting to trend
toward less known brands like Asus and TP-Link. But too many of my customers
think the electronics store is "Walmart" and they seem to come back with these
Belkin pieces of crap, I particularly hate the model that only has 1 LED on the
whole router and you have to interpret the color and number of flashes, it's
like figuring out what R2D2 is saying. What's that R2? No link on port 3?
-Original Message-----
From: Simon Westlake
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 11:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
I've honestly given up completely on all residential routers, they seem to
be slowly converging on a common denominator which is that none of them work
properly and only last a few months. I had to replace my router recently, and
just got a Mikrotik instead. One of the guys I work with just replaced his old
Linksys with a Mikrotik, and all of his minor problems went away.
I used to think that it was a bad idea to provide managed routers to end
users, but I'm slowly changing my mind after realizing how many issues are
caused by them. There's also a lot you could do to provide better service to an
end user, hypothetically.. let's say you put in a DD-WRT or Mikrotik router and
setup some shaping on the client side with SFQ.
They'd probably see a lot less issues with their Netflix buffering when
their Xbox was downloading a game, or their VoIP cutting out when they're
watching Dared
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Interesting they refer to 2.4 GHz as for “legacy devices”. I suspect that 5
GHz in the large homes of the likely target market will need more than 1 access
point to cover the entire house, despite the best MIMO and beamforming
technology. Especially the way some customers resist locating the router at
the center of the house because “I don’t want to look at wires”.
Really, new houses should be designed and wired with probably 10 gigabit
Internet in mind, assuming you won’t want to rip the walls open in 10 or 20
years to rewire. If rooms are designed with places for “network boxes” and
fiber or Cat6/7 cable back to a hub point, the electronics can be upgraded as
technology evolves.
From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 4:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
https://www.calix.com/systems/gigafamily-overview/GigaCenters.html
From: Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 3:36 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Ok, do you have a link to information then?
I’m not familiar with Calix for this particular solution, though I’ve heard of
them.
Also, I’m lazy J
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sean Heskett
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 3:25 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
$149
On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson wrote:
For $200?
From: Af [mailto:javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af-boun...@afmug.com');] On
Behalf Of Sean Heskett
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 2:24 PM
To: javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Calix can do all that and a whole lot more sterling
On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson
wrote:
I hear you.
My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my customers.
Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim.
I would like to use MikroTik and manage the routing, but I'm finding that
it's still best to get a really nice $100-$300+ single Wireless AC router and
place it in the center of the house.
What I would really like is a good split solution with routing in the
head/basement, and wireless AC in bridge mode in one or two places in the house.
But that doesn't seem to exist.
-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 10:30 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed Mikrotik from
us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been very trouble free for us
once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters. I think they look at the pile of
discarded routers in their closet and decide to let someone else deal with it.
Most still fall into either the "I can buy one at Walmart for $50" camp or the
"I like going to Best Buy and letting the sales guy talk me into the
$250 router because I like shopping for expensive toys" camp. And people
still look at the humble little white Mikrotik in its plain brown box and think
it can't possibly match their big black AC1900 router that looks like a weapon
from Star Wars.
The question I guess is whether to join the cable/telco crowd and supply
the WiFi router and manage it for no additional revenue, and then what to do
about the people who still want to put their own Star Wars router behind it.
It is very disappointing that since Belkin bought Linksys they are now
designing their own Linksys branded routers that are far worse than the Linksys
designed E series which certainly had their own problems. I replaced a
customer's Belksys AC1900 router with a Mikrotik this week and they went from
having total dead spots in parts of their house on both 2.4 and 5 GHz to having
full bars and great performance everywhere including the basement. Their minds
were boggled at this little white box with no external antennas blowing away
the big black monster.
Of the household brands, Netgear doesn't seem all that bad, except their
low end WNR2000 has a really high failure rate. I see people starting to trend
toward less known brands like Asus and TP-Link. But too many of my customers
think the electronics store is "Walmart" and they seem to come back with these
Belkin pieces of crap, I particularly hate the model that only has 1 LED on the
whole router and you have to interpret the color and number of flashes, it's
like figuring out what R2D2 is saying. What's that R2? No link on port 3?
-Original Message-----
From: Simon Westlake
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 11:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
I've honestly given up completely on all residential routers, they seem to
be slowly converging on a common denominat
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Not for an 844.. No way On Jan 1, 2016 4:24 PM, "Sean Heskett" wrote: > $149 > > On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson > wrote: > >> For $200? >> >> >> >> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett >> *Sent:* Friday, January 1, 2016 2:24 PM >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >> >> >> >> Calix can do all that and a whole lot more sterling >> >> >> >> >> >> On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson >> wrote: >> >> I hear you. >> >> My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my customers. >> >> Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim. >> >> I would like to use MikroTik and manage the routing, but I'm finding that >> it's still best to get a really nice $100-$300+ single Wireless AC router >> and place it in the center of the house. >> >> What I would really like is a good split solution with routing in the >> head/basement, and wireless AC in bridge mode in one or two places in the >> house. >> >> But that doesn't seem to exist. >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof >> Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 10:30 AM >> To: af@afmug.com >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >> >> I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed Mikrotik >> from us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been very trouble free >> for us once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters. I think they look at the >> pile of discarded routers in their closet and decide to let someone else >> deal with it. Most still fall into either the "I can buy one at Walmart >> for $50" camp or the "I like going to Best Buy and letting the sales guy >> talk me into the >> $250 router because I like shopping for expensive toys" camp. And people >> still look at the humble little white Mikrotik in its plain brown box and >> think it can't possibly match their big black AC1900 router that looks like >> a weapon from Star Wars. >> >> The question I guess is whether to join the cable/telco crowd and supply >> the WiFi router and manage it for no additional revenue, and then what to >> do about the people who still want to put their own Star Wars router behind >> it. >> >> It is very disappointing that since Belkin bought Linksys they are now >> designing their own Linksys branded routers that are far worse than the >> Linksys designed E series which certainly had their own problems. I >> replaced a customer's Belksys AC1900 router with a Mikrotik this week and >> they went from having total dead spots in parts of their house on both 2.4 >> and 5 GHz to having full bars and great performance everywhere including >> the basement. Their minds were boggled at this little white box with no >> external antennas blowing away the big black monster. >> >> Of the household brands, Netgear doesn't seem all that bad, except their >> low end WNR2000 has a really high failure rate. I see people starting to >> trend toward less known brands like Asus and TP-Link. But too many of my >> customers think the electronics store is "Walmart" and they seem to come >> back with these Belkin pieces of crap, I particularly hate the model that >> only has 1 LED on the whole router and you have to interpret the color and >> number of flashes, it's like figuring out what R2D2 is saying. What's that >> R2? No link on port 3? >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Simon Westlake >> Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 11:04 AM >> To: af@afmug.com >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >> >> I've honestly given up completely on all residential routers, they seem >> to be slowly converging on a common denominator which is that none of them >> work properly and only last a few months. I had to replace my router >> recently, and just got a Mikrotik instead. One of the guys I work with just >> replaced his old Linksys with a Mikrotik, and all of his minor problems >> went away. >> >> I used to think that it was a bad idea to provide managed routers to end >> users, but I'm slowly changing my mind after realizing how many issues are >> caused by them. There's also a lot you could do to provide better service >> to an end user, hypothetically.. let's say you put in a DD-WRT or Mikrotik >> router and setup some shaping on the client side with SFQ. >> They'd probably see a lot less issues with their Netflix buffering when >> their Xbox was downloading a game, or their VoIP cutting out when they're >> watching Daredevil in 4K. >> >> On 1/1/2016 10:05 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: >> > I had a bad dream where all my customers go to Walmart and buy Belkin >> > routers. I tried to wake up but I wasn't dreaming. >> Aaaa! >> > >> >> -- >> Simon Westlake >> Skype: Simon_Sonar >> Email: simon@sonar.software >> Phone: (702) 447-1247 >> --- >> Sonar Software Inc >> The next generation of ISP billing and OSS https://sonar.software >> >>
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
I have a very modest home if you don't count the barn and unfinished basement. Around 1860sqrft. 5GHz barely works through one plaster or sheetrock wall in my home. I'm "desiring" a solution where we can have the customer name and account number in the admin panel, then drill down and manage their gpon router, and the multiple wireless APs on their account. Flow export is okay, but procera does a far better job than calix in that regard (data monitoring for customer troubleshooting). Hopefully this comes to fruition without costing us $7+ /sub/month like calix does. On Jan 1, 2016 5:42 PM, "Ken Hohhof" wrote: > Interesting they refer to 2.4 GHz as for “legacy devices”. I suspect that > 5 GHz in the large homes of the likely target market will need more than 1 > access point to cover the entire house, despite the best MIMO and > beamforming technology. Especially the way some customers resist locating > the router at the center of the house because “I don’t want to look at > wires”. > > Really, new houses should be designed and wired with probably 10 gigabit > Internet in mind, assuming you won’t want to rip the walls open in 10 or 20 > years to rewire. If rooms are designed with places for “network boxes” and > fiber or Cat6/7 cable back to a hub point, the electronics can be upgraded > as technology evolves. > > > *From:* Chuck McCown > *Sent:* Friday, January 01, 2016 4:50 PM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream > > https://www.calix.com/systems/gigafamily-overview/GigaCenters.html > > *From:* Sterling Jacobson > *Sent:* Friday, January 01, 2016 3:36 PM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream > > > Ok, do you have a link to information then? > > > > I’m not familiar with Calix for this particular solution, though I’ve > heard of them. > > > > Also, I’m lazy J > > > > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett > *Sent:* Friday, January 1, 2016 3:25 PM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream > > > > $149 > > On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson > wrote: > > For $200? > > > > *From:* Af [mailto:javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af-boun...@afmug.com');] *On > Behalf Of *Sean Heskett > *Sent:* Friday, January 1, 2016 2:24 PM > *To:* javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com'); > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream > > > > Calix can do all that and a whole lot more sterling > > > > > > On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson < > javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sterl...@avative.net');> wrote: > > I hear you. > > My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my customers. > > Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim. > > I would like to use MikroTik and manage the routing, but I'm finding that > it's still best to get a really nice $100-$300+ single Wireless AC router > and place it in the center of the house. > > What I would really like is a good split solution with routing in the > head/basement, and wireless AC in bridge mode in one or two places in the > house. > > But that doesn't seem to exist. > > -Original Message- > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf > Of Ken Hohhof > Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 10:30 AM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream > > I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed Mikrotik from > us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been very trouble free for > us once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters. I think they look at the pile > of discarded routers in their closet and decide to let someone else deal > with it. Most still fall into either the "I can buy one at Walmart for > $50" camp or the "I like going to Best Buy and letting the sales guy talk > me into the > $250 router because I like shopping for expensive toys" camp. And people > still look at the humble little white Mikrotik in its plain brown box and > think it can't possibly match their big black AC1900 router that looks like > a weapon from Star Wars. > > The question I guess is whether to join the cable/telco crowd and supply > the WiFi router and manage it for no additional revenue, and then what to > do about the people who still want to put their own Star Wars router behind > it. > > It is very disappointing that since Belkin bought Linksys they are now > designing their own Linksys branded routers that are far worse than the > Linksys designed E series which certainly had their own problems. I > replaced a customer's Belks
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
I don't know where you are getting your pricing for calix Josh but we are paying nowhere near what you are stating here. We buy the gigacenters for $149 and the cloud platform is $150/mo for 500 users. We charge $99 "setup fee" to our clients and $12/mo. for our "managed wifi" service. ROI is ~4months/client. So the first 13 clients pay for the cloud platform for the other 487. Sean On Friday, January 1, 2016, Josh Reynolds wrote: > I have a very modest home if you don't count the barn and unfinished > basement. Around 1860sqrft. 5GHz barely works through one plaster or > sheetrock wall in my home. > > I'm "desiring" a solution where we can have the customer name and account > number in the admin panel, then drill down and manage their gpon router, > and the multiple wireless APs on their account. Flow export is okay, but > procera does a far better job than calix in that regard (data monitoring > for customer troubleshooting). > > Hopefully this comes to fruition without costing us $7+ /sub/month like > calix does. > On Jan 1, 2016 5:42 PM, "Ken Hohhof" > wrote: > >> Interesting they refer to 2.4 GHz as for “legacy devices”. I suspect >> that 5 GHz in the large homes of the likely target market will need more >> than 1 access point to cover the entire house, despite the best MIMO and >> beamforming technology. Especially the way some customers resist locating >> the router at the center of the house because “I don’t want to look at >> wires”. >> >> Really, new houses should be designed and wired with probably 10 gigabit >> Internet in mind, assuming you won’t want to rip the walls open in 10 or 20 >> years to rewire. If rooms are designed with places for “network boxes” and >> fiber or Cat6/7 cable back to a hub point, the electronics can be upgraded >> as technology evolves. >> >> >> *From:* Chuck McCown >> *Sent:* Friday, January 01, 2016 4:50 PM >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >> >> https://www.calix.com/systems/gigafamily-overview/GigaCenters.html >> >> *From:* Sterling Jacobson >> >> *Sent:* Friday, January 01, 2016 3:36 PM >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >> >> >> Ok, do you have a link to information then? >> >> >> >> I’m not familiar with Calix for this particular solution, though I’ve >> heard of them. >> >> >> >> Also, I’m lazy J >> >> >> >> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com >> ] *On Behalf Of *Sean >> Heskett >> *Sent:* Friday, January 1, 2016 3:25 PM >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >> >> >> >> $149 >> >> On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson > > wrote: >> >> For $200? >> >> >> >> *From:* Af [mailto:javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af-boun...@afmug.com');] *On >> Behalf Of *Sean Heskett >> *Sent:* Friday, January 1, 2016 2:24 PM >> *To:* javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com'); >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >> >> >> >> Calix can do all that and a whole lot more sterling >> >> >> >> >> >> On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson < >> javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sterl...@avative.net');> wrote: >> >> I hear you. >> >> My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my customers. >> >> Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim. >> >> I would like to use MikroTik and manage the routing, but I'm finding that >> it's still best to get a really nice $100-$300+ single Wireless AC router >> and place it in the center of the house. >> >> What I would really like is a good split solution with routing in the >> head/basement, and wireless AC in bridge mode in one or two places in the >> house. >> >> But that doesn't seem to exist. >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com >> ] On Behalf Of Ken >> Hohhof >> Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 10:30 AM >> To: af@afmug.com >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >> >> I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed Mikrotik >> from us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been very trouble free >> for us once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters. I think they look at the >> pile of discarded routers in their closet and decide to let someone else >>
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
We would be getting those numbers from our regional director... On Jan 1, 2016 9:31 PM, "Sean Heskett" wrote: > I don't know where you are getting your pricing for calix Josh but we are > paying nowhere near what you are stating here. > > We buy the gigacenters for $149 and the cloud platform is $150/mo for 500 > users. > > We charge $99 "setup fee" to our clients and $12/mo. for our "managed > wifi" service. ROI is ~4months/client. > > So the first 13 clients pay for the cloud platform for the other 487. > > Sean > > > On Friday, January 1, 2016, Josh Reynolds wrote: > >> I have a very modest home if you don't count the barn and unfinished >> basement. Around 1860sqrft. 5GHz barely works through one plaster or >> sheetrock wall in my home. >> >> I'm "desiring" a solution where we can have the customer name and account >> number in the admin panel, then drill down and manage their gpon router, >> and the multiple wireless APs on their account. Flow export is okay, but >> procera does a far better job than calix in that regard (data monitoring >> for customer troubleshooting). >> >> Hopefully this comes to fruition without costing us $7+ /sub/month like >> calix does. >> On Jan 1, 2016 5:42 PM, "Ken Hohhof" wrote: >> >>> Interesting they refer to 2.4 GHz as for “legacy devices”. I suspect >>> that 5 GHz in the large homes of the likely target market will need more >>> than 1 access point to cover the entire house, despite the best MIMO and >>> beamforming technology. Especially the way some customers resist locating >>> the router at the center of the house because “I don’t want to look at >>> wires”. >>> >>> Really, new houses should be designed and wired with probably 10 gigabit >>> Internet in mind, assuming you won’t want to rip the walls open in 10 or 20 >>> years to rewire. If rooms are designed with places for “network boxes” and >>> fiber or Cat6/7 cable back to a hub point, the electronics can be upgraded >>> as technology evolves. >>> >>> >>> *From:* Chuck McCown >>> *Sent:* Friday, January 01, 2016 4:50 PM >>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >>> >>> https://www.calix.com/systems/gigafamily-overview/GigaCenters.html >>> >>> *From:* Sterling Jacobson >>> *Sent:* Friday, January 01, 2016 3:36 PM >>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >>> >>> >>> Ok, do you have a link to information then? >>> >>> >>> >>> I’m not familiar with Calix for this particular solution, though I’ve >>> heard of them. >>> >>> >>> >>> Also, I’m lazy J >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett >>> *Sent:* Friday, January 1, 2016 3:25 PM >>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >>> >>> >>> >>> $149 >>> >>> On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson >>> wrote: >>> >>> For $200? >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Af [mailto:javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af-boun...@afmug.com');] >>> *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett >>> *Sent:* Friday, January 1, 2016 2:24 PM >>> *To:* javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com'); >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >>> >>> >>> >>> Calix can do all that and a whole lot more sterling >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson < >>> javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sterl...@avative.net');> wrote: >>> >>> I hear you. >>> >>> My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my customers. >>> >>> Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim. >>> >>> I would like to use MikroTik and manage the routing, but I'm finding >>> that it's still best to get a really nice $100-$300+ single Wireless AC >>> router and place it in the center of the house. >>> >>> What I would really like is a good split solution with routing in the >>> head/basement, and wireless AC in bridge mode in one or two places in the >>> house. >>> >>> But that doesn't seem to exist. >>> >>> -Original M
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Wait, are these the gpon gigacenters, 802.11AC, beamforming? On Jan 1, 2016 9:31 PM, "Sean Heskett" wrote: > I don't know where you are getting your pricing for calix Josh but we are > paying nowhere near what you are stating here. > > We buy the gigacenters for $149 and the cloud platform is $150/mo for 500 > users. > > We charge $99 "setup fee" to our clients and $12/mo. for our "managed > wifi" service. ROI is ~4months/client. > > So the first 13 clients pay for the cloud platform for the other 487. > > Sean > > > On Friday, January 1, 2016, Josh Reynolds wrote: > >> I have a very modest home if you don't count the barn and unfinished >> basement. Around 1860sqrft. 5GHz barely works through one plaster or >> sheetrock wall in my home. >> >> I'm "desiring" a solution where we can have the customer name and account >> number in the admin panel, then drill down and manage their gpon router, >> and the multiple wireless APs on their account. Flow export is okay, but >> procera does a far better job than calix in that regard (data monitoring >> for customer troubleshooting). >> >> Hopefully this comes to fruition without costing us $7+ /sub/month like >> calix does. >> On Jan 1, 2016 5:42 PM, "Ken Hohhof" wrote: >> >>> Interesting they refer to 2.4 GHz as for “legacy devices”. I suspect >>> that 5 GHz in the large homes of the likely target market will need more >>> than 1 access point to cover the entire house, despite the best MIMO and >>> beamforming technology. Especially the way some customers resist locating >>> the router at the center of the house because “I don’t want to look at >>> wires”. >>> >>> Really, new houses should be designed and wired with probably 10 gigabit >>> Internet in mind, assuming you won’t want to rip the walls open in 10 or 20 >>> years to rewire. If rooms are designed with places for “network boxes” and >>> fiber or Cat6/7 cable back to a hub point, the electronics can be upgraded >>> as technology evolves. >>> >>> >>> *From:* Chuck McCown >>> *Sent:* Friday, January 01, 2016 4:50 PM >>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >>> >>> https://www.calix.com/systems/gigafamily-overview/GigaCenters.html >>> >>> *From:* Sterling Jacobson >>> *Sent:* Friday, January 01, 2016 3:36 PM >>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >>> >>> >>> Ok, do you have a link to information then? >>> >>> >>> >>> I’m not familiar with Calix for this particular solution, though I’ve >>> heard of them. >>> >>> >>> >>> Also, I’m lazy J >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett >>> *Sent:* Friday, January 1, 2016 3:25 PM >>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >>> >>> >>> >>> $149 >>> >>> On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson >>> wrote: >>> >>> For $200? >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Af [mailto:javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af-boun...@afmug.com');] >>> *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett >>> *Sent:* Friday, January 1, 2016 2:24 PM >>> *To:* javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com'); >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >>> >>> >>> >>> Calix can do all that and a whole lot more sterling >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson < >>> javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sterl...@avative.net');> wrote: >>> >>> I hear you. >>> >>> My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my customers. >>> >>> Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim. >>> >>> I would like to use MikroTik and manage the routing, but I'm finding >>> that it's still best to get a really nice $100-$300+ single Wireless AC >>> router and place it in the center of the house. >>> >>> What I would really like is a good split solution with routing in the >>> head/basement, and wireless AC in bridge mode in one or two places in the >>> house. >>> >>> But that doesn't seem to exist. >>> >>> -Original M
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
It's the 844E copper Ethernet version. On Friday, January 1, 2016, Josh Reynolds wrote: > Wait, are these the gpon gigacenters, 802.11AC, beamforming? > On Jan 1, 2016 9:31 PM, "Sean Heskett" > wrote: > >> I don't know where you are getting your pricing for calix Josh but we are >> paying nowhere near what you are stating here. >> >> We buy the gigacenters for $149 and the cloud platform is $150/mo for 500 >> users. >> >> We charge $99 "setup fee" to our clients and $12/mo. for our "managed >> wifi" service. ROI is ~4months/client. >> >> So the first 13 clients pay for the cloud platform for the other 487. >> >> Sean >> >> >> On Friday, January 1, 2016, Josh Reynolds > > wrote: >> >>> I have a very modest home if you don't count the barn and unfinished >>> basement. Around 1860sqrft. 5GHz barely works through one plaster or >>> sheetrock wall in my home. >>> >>> I'm "desiring" a solution where we can have the customer name and >>> account number in the admin panel, then drill down and manage their gpon >>> router, and the multiple wireless APs on their account. Flow export is >>> okay, but procera does a far better job than calix in that regard (data >>> monitoring for customer troubleshooting). >>> >>> Hopefully this comes to fruition without costing us $7+ /sub/month like >>> calix does. >>> On Jan 1, 2016 5:42 PM, "Ken Hohhof" wrote: >>> >>>> Interesting they refer to 2.4 GHz as for “legacy devices”. I suspect >>>> that 5 GHz in the large homes of the likely target market will need more >>>> than 1 access point to cover the entire house, despite the best MIMO and >>>> beamforming technology. Especially the way some customers resist locating >>>> the router at the center of the house because “I don’t want to look at >>>> wires”. >>>> >>>> Really, new houses should be designed and wired with probably 10 >>>> gigabit Internet in mind, assuming you won’t want to rip the walls open in >>>> 10 or 20 years to rewire. If rooms are designed with places for “network >>>> boxes” and fiber or Cat6/7 cable back to a hub point, the electronics can >>>> be upgraded as technology evolves. >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* Chuck McCown >>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 01, 2016 4:50 PM >>>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >>>> >>>> https://www.calix.com/systems/gigafamily-overview/GigaCenters.html >>>> >>>> *From:* Sterling Jacobson >>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 01, 2016 3:36 PM >>>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >>>> >>>> >>>> Ok, do you have a link to information then? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I’m not familiar with Calix for this particular solution, though I’ve >>>> heard of them. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Also, I’m lazy J >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett >>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 1, 2016 3:25 PM >>>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> $149 >>>> >>>> On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> For $200? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* Af [mailto:javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af-boun...@afmug.com');] >>>> *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett >>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 1, 2016 2:24 PM >>>> *To:* javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com'); >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Calix can do all that and a whole lot more sterling >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson < >>>> javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sterl...@avative.net');> wrote: >>>> >>>> I hear you. >>>> >>>> My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my customers. >>>> >>>> Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim. >
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Interesting. I'm curious why our price on the gpon version is $244/ea then. On Jan 1, 2016 10:41 PM, "Sean Heskett" wrote: > It's the 844E copper Ethernet version. > > > On Friday, January 1, 2016, Josh Reynolds wrote: > >> Wait, are these the gpon gigacenters, 802.11AC, beamforming? >> On Jan 1, 2016 9:31 PM, "Sean Heskett" wrote: >> >>> I don't know where you are getting your pricing for calix Josh but we >>> are paying nowhere near what you are stating here. >>> >>> We buy the gigacenters for $149 and the cloud platform is $150/mo for >>> 500 users. >>> >>> We charge $99 "setup fee" to our clients and $12/mo. for our "managed >>> wifi" service. ROI is ~4months/client. >>> >>> So the first 13 clients pay for the cloud platform for the other 487. >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> >>> On Friday, January 1, 2016, Josh Reynolds wrote: >>> >>>> I have a very modest home if you don't count the barn and unfinished >>>> basement. Around 1860sqrft. 5GHz barely works through one plaster or >>>> sheetrock wall in my home. >>>> >>>> I'm "desiring" a solution where we can have the customer name and >>>> account number in the admin panel, then drill down and manage their gpon >>>> router, and the multiple wireless APs on their account. Flow export is >>>> okay, but procera does a far better job than calix in that regard (data >>>> monitoring for customer troubleshooting). >>>> >>>> Hopefully this comes to fruition without costing us $7+ /sub/month like >>>> calix does. >>>> On Jan 1, 2016 5:42 PM, "Ken Hohhof" wrote: >>>> >>>>> Interesting they refer to 2.4 GHz as for “legacy devices”. I suspect >>>>> that 5 GHz in the large homes of the likely target market will need more >>>>> than 1 access point to cover the entire house, despite the best MIMO and >>>>> beamforming technology. Especially the way some customers resist locating >>>>> the router at the center of the house because “I don’t want to look at >>>>> wires”. >>>>> >>>>> Really, new houses should be designed and wired with probably 10 >>>>> gigabit Internet in mind, assuming you won’t want to rip the walls open in >>>>> 10 or 20 years to rewire. If rooms are designed with places for “network >>>>> boxes” and fiber or Cat6/7 cable back to a hub point, the electronics can >>>>> be upgraded as technology evolves. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From:* Chuck McCown >>>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 01, 2016 4:50 PM >>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >>>>> >>>>> https://www.calix.com/systems/gigafamily-overview/GigaCenters.html >>>>> >>>>> *From:* Sterling Jacobson >>>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 01, 2016 3:36 PM >>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Ok, do you have a link to information then? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I’m not familiar with Calix for this particular solution, though I’ve >>>>> heard of them. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Also, I’m lazy J >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett >>>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 1, 2016 3:25 PM >>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> $149 >>>>> >>>>> On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> For $200? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From:* Af [mailto: >>>>> javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af-boun...@afmug.com');] *On Behalf Of *Sean >>>>> Heskett >>>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 1, 2016 2:24 PM >>>>> *To:* javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com'); >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
SFP circuitry etc
From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 11:03 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Interesting. I'm curious why our price on the gpon version is $244/ea then.
On Jan 1, 2016 10:41 PM, "Sean Heskett" wrote:
It's the 844E copper Ethernet version.
On Friday, January 1, 2016, Josh Reynolds wrote:
Wait, are these the gpon gigacenters, 802.11AC, beamforming?
On Jan 1, 2016 9:31 PM, "Sean Heskett" wrote:
I don't know where you are getting your pricing for calix Josh but we are
paying nowhere near what you are stating here.
We buy the gigacenters for $149 and the cloud platform is $150/mo for 500
users.
We charge $99 "setup fee" to our clients and $12/mo. for our "managed
wifi" service. ROI is ~4months/client.
So the first 13 clients pay for the cloud platform for the other 487.
Sean
On Friday, January 1, 2016, Josh Reynolds wrote:
I have a very modest home if you don't count the barn and unfinished
basement. Around 1860sqrft. 5GHz barely works through one plaster or sheetrock
wall in my home.
I'm "desiring" a solution where we can have the customer name and
account number in the admin panel, then drill down and manage their gpon
router, and the multiple wireless APs on their account. Flow export is okay,
but procera does a far better job than calix in that regard (data monitoring
for customer troubleshooting).
Hopefully this comes to fruition without costing us $7+ /sub/month like
calix does.
On Jan 1, 2016 5:42 PM, "Ken Hohhof" wrote:
Interesting they refer to 2.4 GHz as for “legacy devices”. I suspect
that 5 GHz in the large homes of the likely target market will need more than 1
access point to cover the entire house, despite the best MIMO and beamforming
technology. Especially the way some customers resist locating the router at
the center of the house because “I don’t want to look at wires”.
Really, new houses should be designed and wired with probably 10
gigabit Internet in mind, assuming you won’t want to rip the walls open in 10
or 20 years to rewire. If rooms are designed with places for “network boxes”
and fiber or Cat6/7 cable back to a hub point, the electronics can be upgraded
as technology evolves.
From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 4:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
https://www.calix.com/systems/gigafamily-overview/GigaCenters.html
From: Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 3:36 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Ok, do you have a link to information then?
I’m not familiar with Calix for this particular solution, though I’ve
heard of them.
Also, I’m lazy J
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sean Heskett
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 3:25 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
$149
On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson
wrote:
For $200?
From: Af
[mailto:javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af-boun...@afmug.com');] On Behalf Of Sean
Heskett
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 2:24 PM
To: javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Calix can do all that and a whole lot more sterling
On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson
wrote:
I hear you.
My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my customers.
Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim.
I would like to use MikroTik and manage the routing, but I'm
finding that it's still best to get a really nice $100-$300+ single Wireless AC
router and place it in the center of the house.
What I would really like is a good split solution with routing in
the head/basement, and wireless AC in bridge mode in one or two places in the
house.
But that doesn't seem to exist.
-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 10:30 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed
Mikrotik from us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been very trouble
free for us once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters. I think they look at the
pile of discarded routers in their closet and decide to let someone else deal
with it. Most still fall into eit
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
SFP circuitry is cheaper than going native copper. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Chuck McCown" To: af@afmug.com Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2016 11:46:25 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream SFP circuitry etc From: Josh Reynolds Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 11:03 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream Interesting. I'm curious why our price on the gpon version is $244/ea then. On Jan 1, 2016 10:41 PM, "Sean Heskett" < af...@zirkel.us > wrote: It's the 844E copper Ethernet version. On Friday, January 1, 2016, Josh Reynolds < j...@kyneticwifi.com > wrote: Wait, are these the gpon gigacenters, 802.11AC, beamforming? On Jan 1, 2016 9:31 PM, "Sean Heskett" < af...@zirkel.us > wrote: I don't know where you are getting your pricing for calix Josh but we are paying nowhere near what you are stating here. We buy the gigacenters for $149 and the cloud platform is $150/mo for 500 users. We charge $99 "setup fee" to our clients and $12/mo. for our "managed wifi" service. ROI is ~4months/client. So the first 13 clients pay for the cloud platform for the other 487. Sean On Friday, January 1, 2016, Josh Reynolds < j...@kyneticwifi.com > wrote: I have a very modest home if you don't count the barn and unfinished basement. Around 1860sqrft. 5GHz barely works through one plaster or sheetrock wall in my home. I'm "desiring" a solution where we can have the customer name and account number in the admin panel, then drill down and manage their gpon router, and the multiple wireless APs on their account. Flow export is okay, but procera does a far better job than calix in that regard (data monitoring for customer troubleshooting). Hopefully this comes to fruition without costing us $7+ /sub/month like calix does. On Jan 1, 2016 5:42 PM, "Ken Hohhof" < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: Interesting they refer to 2.4 GHz as for “legacy devices”. I suspect that 5 GHz in the large homes of the likely target market will need more than 1 access point to cover the entire house, despite the best MIMO and beamforming technology. Especially the way some customers resist locating the router at the center of the house because “I don’t want to look at wires”. Really, new houses should be designed and wired with probably 10 gigabit Internet in mind, assuming you won’t want to rip the walls open in 10 or 20 years to rewire. If rooms are designed with places for “network boxes” and fiber or Cat6/7 cable back to a hub point, the electronics can be upgraded as technology evolves. From: Chuck McCown Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 4:50 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream https://www.calix.com/systems/gigafamily-overview/GigaCenters.html From: Sterling Jacobson Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 3:36 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream Ok, do you have a link to information then? I’m not familiar with Calix for this particular solution, though I’ve heard of them. Also, I’m lazy J From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Sean Heskett Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 3:25 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream $149 On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson < sterl...@avative.net > wrote: For $200? From: Af [mailto: javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af-boun...@afmug.com'); ] On Behalf Of Sean Heskett Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 2:24 PM To: javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com'); Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream Calix can do all that and a whole lot more sterling On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson < javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sterl...@avative.net'); > wrote: I hear you. My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my customers. Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim. I would like to use MikroTik and manage the routing, but I'm finding that it's still best to get a really nice $100-$300+ single Wireless AC router and place it in the center of the house. What I would really like is a good split solution with routing in the head/basement, and wireless AC in bridge mode in one or two places in the house. But that doesn't seem to exist. -Original Message- From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 10:30 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed Mikrotik from us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been very trouble free for us once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters. I
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
You know... I put a wired MT in the back room where our hub is, and a unifi WAP in the center of the house, and we never seem to have problems here. I've got a buddy that lives in town, and he has gone through a half dozen or so different Linksees, dleenks, and so on, and this morning he is asking me for a "recommended router". I'm inclined to set up what we have, so I can stop listening to his whining. (He's not on our service, he's on the evil empire's network). bp On 1/1/2016 9:30 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed Mikrotik from us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been very trouble free for us once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters. I think they look at the pile of discarded routers in their closet and decide to let someone else deal with it. Most still fall into either the "I can buy one at Walmart for $50" camp or the "I like going to Best Buy and letting the sales guy talk me into the $250 router because I like shopping for expensive toys" camp. And people still look at the humble little white Mikrotik in its plain brown box and think it can't possibly match their big black AC1900 router that looks like a weapon from Star Wars. The question I guess is whether to join the cable/telco crowd and supply the WiFi router and manage it for no additional revenue, and then what to do about the people who still want to put their own Star Wars router behind it. It is very disappointing that since Belkin bought Linksys they are now designing their own Linksys branded routers that are far worse than the Linksys designed E series which certainly had their own problems. I replaced a customer's Belksys AC1900 router with a Mikrotik this week and they went from having total dead spots in parts of their house on both 2.4 and 5 GHz to having full bars and great performance everywhere including the basement. Their minds were boggled at this little white box with no external antennas blowing away the big black monster. Of the household brands, Netgear doesn't seem all that bad, except their low end WNR2000 has a really high failure rate. I see people starting to trend toward less known brands like Asus and TP-Link. But too many of my customers think the electronics store is "Walmart" and they seem to come back with these Belkin pieces of crap, I particularly hate the model that only has 1 LED on the whole router and you have to interpret the color and number of flashes, it's like figuring out what R2D2 is saying. What's that R2? No link on port 3? -Original Message----- From: Simon Westlake Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 11:04 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream I've honestly given up completely on all residential routers, they seem to be slowly converging on a common denominator which is that none of them work properly and only last a few months. I had to replace my router recently, and just got a Mikrotik instead. One of the guys I work with just replaced his old Linksys with a Mikrotik, and all of his minor problems went away. I used to think that it was a bad idea to provide managed routers to end users, but I'm slowly changing my mind after realizing how many issues are caused by them. There's also a lot you could do to provide better service to an end user, hypothetically.. let's say you put in a DD-WRT or Mikrotik router and setup some shaping on the client side with SFQ. They'd probably see a lot less issues with their Netflix buffering when their Xbox was downloading a game, or their VoIP cutting out when they're watching Daredevil in 4K. On 1/1/2016 10:05 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: I had a bad dream where all my customers go to Walmart and buy Belkin routers. I tried to wake up but I wasn't dreaming. Aaaa!
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
I've got an AC-Pro/edu and an LR in the house. The 2.4 coverage is great except outside. Inside, I get about a room and a half of 5ghz coverage. Also tried a calix gigacenter and a few other test routers... No difference. Not suitable for our scenario, where we will have up to 6 concurrent IPTV streams. Need to wire each set top, or have the AP in the same room. On Jan 2, 2016 11:51 AM, "Bill Prince" wrote: > You know... I put a wired MT in the back room where our hub is, and a > unifi WAP in the center of the house, and we never seem to have problems > here. > > I've got a buddy that lives in town, and he has gone through a half dozen > or so different Linksees, dleenks, and so on, and this morning he is asking > me for a "recommended router". I'm inclined to set up what we have, so I > can stop listening to his whining. (He's not on our service, he's on the > evil empire's network). > > > bp > > > On 1/1/2016 9:30 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > >> I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed Mikrotik >> from us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been very trouble free >> for us once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters. I think they look at the >> pile of discarded routers in their closet and decide to let someone else >> deal with it. Most still fall into either the "I can buy one at Walmart >> for $50" camp or the "I like going to Best Buy and letting the sales guy >> talk me into the $250 router because I like shopping for expensive toys" >> camp. And people still look at the humble little white Mikrotik in its >> plain brown box and think it can't possibly match their big black AC1900 >> router that looks like a weapon from Star Wars. >> >> The question I guess is whether to join the cable/telco crowd and supply >> the WiFi router and manage it for no additional revenue, and then what to >> do about the people who still want to put their own Star Wars router behind >> it. >> >> It is very disappointing that since Belkin bought Linksys they are now >> designing their own Linksys branded routers that are far worse than the >> Linksys designed E series which certainly had their own problems. I >> replaced a customer's Belksys AC1900 router with a Mikrotik this week and >> they went from having total dead spots in parts of their house on both 2.4 >> and 5 GHz to having full bars and great performance everywhere including >> the basement. Their minds were boggled at this little white box with no >> external antennas blowing away the big black monster. >> >> Of the household brands, Netgear doesn't seem all that bad, except their >> low end WNR2000 has a really high failure rate. I see people starting to >> trend toward less known brands like Asus and TP-Link. But too many of my >> customers think the electronics store is "Walmart" and they seem to come >> back with these Belkin pieces of crap, I particularly hate the model that >> only has 1 LED on the whole router and you have to interpret the color and >> number of flashes, it's like figuring out what R2D2 is saying. What's that >> R2? No link on port 3? >> >> >> -Original Message- From: Simon Westlake >> Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 11:04 AM >> To: af@afmug.com >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >> >> I've honestly given up completely on all residential routers, they seem >> to be slowly converging on a common denominator which is that none of >> them work properly and only last a few months. I had to replace my >> router recently, and just got a Mikrotik instead. One of the guys I work >> with just replaced his old Linksys with a Mikrotik, and all of his minor >> problems went away. >> >> I used to think that it was a bad idea to provide managed routers to end >> users, but I'm slowly changing my mind after realizing how many issues >> are caused by them. There's also a lot you could do to provide better >> service to an end user, hypothetically.. let's say you put in a DD-WRT >> or Mikrotik router and setup some shaping on the client side with SFQ. >> They'd probably see a lot less issues with their Netflix buffering when >> their Xbox was downloading a game, or their VoIP cutting out when >> they're watching Daredevil in 4K. >> >> On 1/1/2016 10:05 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: >> >>> I had a bad dream where all my customers go to Walmart and buy Belkin >>> routers. I tried to wake up but I wasn't dreaming. Aaaa! >>> >>> >> >
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
That's what I had for a while, a Mikrotik 2011 series and a UBNT AC AP commercial grade connected to their top of the line UBNT 48 port PoE switch. In theory it worked well, in practice the AP failed at least once a month and the coverage was sucky. I replaced it with a Nighthawk X6 and coverage improved dramatically and so did throughput. Unfortunately, the Nighthawk dropped to about 1/3 capacity when any feature was turned on that did packet inspection. And their filtering software sucked and their interface was from the 90's. So I just barely purchased myself the top end ASUS mothership. So far the throughput is good, though it does drop from 950Mbps download to about 905Mbps download. BUT packet inspection features don't seem to decrease the speed much, maybe down to high 800's. So far, this is the best all in one solution I have found. Apple might be better, but I'm saving that as my last ditch effort. I like Apple products, but I know I will get sucked in to their whole eco-sphere and probably start purchasing Macbooks and spending 1000's of dollars just for the hell of it at that point, lol! -Original Message- From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2016 10:52 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream You know... I put a wired MT in the back room where our hub is, and a unifi WAP in the center of the house, and we never seem to have problems here. I've got a buddy that lives in town, and he has gone through a half dozen or so different Linksees, dleenks, and so on, and this morning he is asking me for a "recommended router". I'm inclined to set up what we have, so I can stop listening to his whining. (He's not on our service, he's on the evil empire's network). bp On 1/1/2016 9:30 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed Mikrotik > from us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been very trouble > free for us once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters. I think they look > at the pile of discarded routers in their closet and decide to let > someone else deal with it. Most still fall into either the "I can buy > one at Walmart for $50" camp or the "I like going to Best Buy and > letting the sales guy talk me into the $250 router because I like > shopping for expensive toys" camp. And people still look at the > humble little white Mikrotik in its plain brown box and think it can't > possibly match their big black AC1900 router that looks like a weapon > from Star Wars. > > The question I guess is whether to join the cable/telco crowd and > supply the WiFi router and manage it for no additional revenue, and > then what to do about the people who still want to put their own Star > Wars router behind it. > > It is very disappointing that since Belkin bought Linksys they are now > designing their own Linksys branded routers that are far worse than > the Linksys designed E series which certainly had their own problems. > I replaced a customer's Belksys AC1900 router with a Mikrotik this > week and they went from having total dead spots in parts of their > house on both 2.4 and 5 GHz to having full bars and great performance > everywhere including the basement. Their minds were boggled at this > little white box with no external antennas blowing away the big black > monster. > > Of the household brands, Netgear doesn't seem all that bad, except > their low end WNR2000 has a really high failure rate. I see people > starting to trend toward less known brands like Asus and TP-Link. But > too many of my customers think the electronics store is "Walmart" and > they seem to come back with these Belkin pieces of crap, I > particularly hate the model that only has 1 LED on the whole router > and you have to interpret the color and number of flashes, it's like > figuring out what R2D2 is saying. What's that R2? No link on port 3? > > > -Original Message- From: Simon Westlake > Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 11:04 AM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream > > I've honestly given up completely on all residential routers, they > seem to be slowly converging on a common denominator which is that > none of them work properly and only last a few months. I had to > replace my router recently, and just got a Mikrotik instead. One of > the guys I work with just replaced his old Linksys with a Mikrotik, > and all of his minor problems went away. > > I used to think that it was a bad idea to provide managed routers to > end users, but I'm slowly changing my mind after realizing how many > issues are caused by them. There's
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
I don't have a high opinion of Apple routers. Their other stuff is OK as long as you don't mind operating on their version of the straight and narrow. bp On 1/2/2016 11:18 AM, Sterling Jacobson wrote: Apple might be better, but I'm saving that as my last ditch effort. I like Apple products, but I know I will get sucked in to their whole eco-sphere and probably start purchasing Macbooks and spending 1000's of dollars just for the hell of it at that point, lol!
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Yeah, the old AC APs were 802.11ac 1st wave, and may actually have been the first 802.11ac to market. Those sucked. New ones are better, but the throughput isn't as high. The tradeoff is good multi device performance, and higher ability to deploy more per location without too much self interference. Oh and nicer mounting locations :P On Jan 2, 2016 1:18 PM, "Sterling Jacobson" wrote: > That's what I had for a while, a Mikrotik 2011 series and a UBNT AC AP > commercial grade connected to their top of the line UBNT 48 port PoE switch. > > In theory it worked well, in practice the AP failed at least once a month > and the coverage was sucky. > > I replaced it with a Nighthawk X6 and coverage improved dramatically and > so did throughput. > > Unfortunately, the Nighthawk dropped to about 1/3 capacity when any > feature was turned on that did packet inspection. > And their filtering software sucked and their interface was from the 90's. > > So I just barely purchased myself the top end ASUS mothership. > > So far the throughput is good, though it does drop from 950Mbps download > to about 905Mbps download. > > BUT packet inspection features don't seem to decrease the speed much, > maybe down to high 800's. > > So far, this is the best all in one solution I have found. > > Apple might be better, but I'm saving that as my last ditch effort. > I like Apple products, but I know I will get sucked in to their whole > eco-sphere and probably start purchasing Macbooks and spending 1000's of > dollars just for the hell of it at that point, lol! > > -Original Message- > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince > Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2016 10:52 AM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream > > You know... I put a wired MT in the back room where our hub is, and a > unifi WAP in the center of the house, and we never seem to have problems > here. > > I've got a buddy that lives in town, and he has gone through a half dozen > or so different Linksees, dleenks, and so on, and this morning he is asking > me for a "recommended router". I'm inclined to set up what we have, so I > can stop listening to his whining. (He's not on our service, he's on the > evil empire's network). > > > bp > > > On 1/1/2016 9:30 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > > I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed Mikrotik > > from us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been very trouble > > free for us once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters. I think they look > > at the pile of discarded routers in their closet and decide to let > > someone else deal with it. Most still fall into either the "I can buy > > one at Walmart for $50" camp or the "I like going to Best Buy and > > letting the sales guy talk me into the $250 router because I like > > shopping for expensive toys" camp. And people still look at the > > humble little white Mikrotik in its plain brown box and think it can't > > possibly match their big black AC1900 router that looks like a weapon > > from Star Wars. > > > > The question I guess is whether to join the cable/telco crowd and > > supply the WiFi router and manage it for no additional revenue, and > > then what to do about the people who still want to put their own Star > > Wars router behind it. > > > > It is very disappointing that since Belkin bought Linksys they are now > > designing their own Linksys branded routers that are far worse than > > the Linksys designed E series which certainly had their own problems. > > I replaced a customer's Belksys AC1900 router with a Mikrotik this > > week and they went from having total dead spots in parts of their > > house on both 2.4 and 5 GHz to having full bars and great performance > > everywhere including the basement. Their minds were boggled at this > > little white box with no external antennas blowing away the big black > > monster. > > > > Of the household brands, Netgear doesn't seem all that bad, except > > their low end WNR2000 has a really high failure rate. I see people > > starting to trend toward less known brands like Asus and TP-Link. But > > too many of my customers think the electronics store is "Walmart" and > > they seem to come back with these Belkin pieces of crap, I > > particularly hate the model that only has 1 LED on the whole router > > and you have to interpret the color and number of flashes, it's like > > figuring out what R2D2 is saying. What's that R2? No link on port 3? > > > > >
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
I replaced my apple AirPort Extreme AC router with the calix and saw a 50-75% improvement in speed and coverage. My friend who live in San Francisco was having severe wifi issues, couldn't even stream music across his living room. Spectrum was clobbered to say the least. Sent him a calix and he's seeing the same speeds over wifi as he his hard wired now. For what it's worth, I don't have any "skin in the game" for calix (I don't own stock or get a kick back etc), I've just been extremely impressed over and over with the amazing results. I've never found a router I've liked as much and felt confident enough to sell to my clients. And it's not any more expensive than anything you can buy for the major vendors. Just here to share my experience etc. 2 cents On Saturday, January 2, 2016, Sterling Jacobson wrote: > That's what I had for a while, a Mikrotik 2011 series and a UBNT AC AP > commercial grade connected to their top of the line UBNT 48 port PoE switch. > > In theory it worked well, in practice the AP failed at least once a month > and the coverage was sucky. > > I replaced it with a Nighthawk X6 and coverage improved dramatically and > so did throughput. > > Unfortunately, the Nighthawk dropped to about 1/3 capacity when any > feature was turned on that did packet inspection. > And their filtering software sucked and their interface was from the 90's. > > So I just barely purchased myself the top end ASUS mothership. > > So far the throughput is good, though it does drop from 950Mbps download > to about 905Mbps download. > > BUT packet inspection features don't seem to decrease the speed much, > maybe down to high 800's. > > So far, this is the best all in one solution I have found. > > Apple might be better, but I'm saving that as my last ditch effort. > I like Apple products, but I know I will get sucked in to their whole > eco-sphere and probably start purchasing Macbooks and spending 1000's of > dollars just for the hell of it at that point, lol! > > -----Original Message----- > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Bill > Prince > Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2016 10:52 AM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream > > You know... I put a wired MT in the back room where our hub is, and a > unifi WAP in the center of the house, and we never seem to have problems > here. > > I've got a buddy that lives in town, and he has gone through a half dozen > or so different Linksees, dleenks, and so on, and this morning he is asking > me for a "recommended router". I'm inclined to set up what we have, so I > can stop listening to his whining. (He's not on our service, he's on the > evil empire's network). > > > bp > > > On 1/1/2016 9:30 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > > I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed Mikrotik > > from us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been very trouble > > free for us once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters. I think they look > > at the pile of discarded routers in their closet and decide to let > > someone else deal with it. Most still fall into either the "I can buy > > one at Walmart for $50" camp or the "I like going to Best Buy and > > letting the sales guy talk me into the $250 router because I like > > shopping for expensive toys" camp. And people still look at the > > humble little white Mikrotik in its plain brown box and think it can't > > possibly match their big black AC1900 router that looks like a weapon > > from Star Wars. > > > > The question I guess is whether to join the cable/telco crowd and > > supply the WiFi router and manage it for no additional revenue, and > > then what to do about the people who still want to put their own Star > > Wars router behind it. > > > > It is very disappointing that since Belkin bought Linksys they are now > > designing their own Linksys branded routers that are far worse than > > the Linksys designed E series which certainly had their own problems. > > I replaced a customer's Belksys AC1900 router with a Mikrotik this > > week and they went from having total dead spots in parts of their > > house on both 2.4 and 5 GHz to having full bars and great performance > > everywhere including the basement. Their minds were boggled at this > > little white box with no external antennas blowing away the big black > > monster. > > > > Of the household brands, Netgear doesn't seem all that bad, except > > their low end WNR2000 has a really high failure rate. I see people > > starting to tr
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Love the real world result reports. Thank you! Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Jan 2, 2016 6:30 PM, "Sean Heskett" wrote: > I replaced my apple AirPort Extreme AC router with the calix and saw a > 50-75% improvement in speed and coverage. > > My friend who live in San Francisco was having severe wifi issues, > couldn't even stream music across his living room. Spectrum was clobbered > to say the least. Sent him a calix and he's seeing the same speeds over > wifi as he his hard wired now. > > For what it's worth, I don't have any "skin in the game" for calix (I > don't own stock or get a kick back etc), I've just been extremely impressed > over and over with the amazing results. I've never found a router I've > liked as much and felt confident enough to sell to my clients. And it's > not any more expensive than anything you can buy for the major vendors. > > Just here to share my experience etc. > > 2 cents > > On Saturday, January 2, 2016, Sterling Jacobson > wrote: > >> That's what I had for a while, a Mikrotik 2011 series and a UBNT AC AP >> commercial grade connected to their top of the line UBNT 48 port PoE switch. >> >> In theory it worked well, in practice the AP failed at least once a month >> and the coverage was sucky. >> >> I replaced it with a Nighthawk X6 and coverage improved dramatically and >> so did throughput. >> >> Unfortunately, the Nighthawk dropped to about 1/3 capacity when any >> feature was turned on that did packet inspection. >> And their filtering software sucked and their interface was from the 90's. >> >> So I just barely purchased myself the top end ASUS mothership. >> >> So far the throughput is good, though it does drop from 950Mbps download >> to about 905Mbps download. >> >> BUT packet inspection features don't seem to decrease the speed much, >> maybe down to high 800's. >> >> So far, this is the best all in one solution I have found. >> >> Apple might be better, but I'm saving that as my last ditch effort. >> I like Apple products, but I know I will get sucked in to their whole >> eco-sphere and probably start purchasing Macbooks and spending 1000's of >> dollars just for the hell of it at that point, lol! >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince >> Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2016 10:52 AM >> To: af@afmug.com >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >> >> You know... I put a wired MT in the back room where our hub is, and a >> unifi WAP in the center of the house, and we never seem to have problems >> here. >> >> I've got a buddy that lives in town, and he has gone through a half dozen >> or so different Linksees, dleenks, and so on, and this morning he is asking >> me for a "recommended router". I'm inclined to set up what we have, so I >> can stop listening to his whining. (He's not on our service, he's on the >> evil empire's network). >> >> >> bp >> >> >> On 1/1/2016 9:30 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: >> > I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed Mikrotik >> > from us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been very trouble >> > free for us once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters. I think they look >> > at the pile of discarded routers in their closet and decide to let >> > someone else deal with it. Most still fall into either the "I can buy >> > one at Walmart for $50" camp or the "I like going to Best Buy and >> > letting the sales guy talk me into the $250 router because I like >> > shopping for expensive toys" camp. And people still look at the >> > humble little white Mikrotik in its plain brown box and think it can't >> > possibly match their big black AC1900 router that looks like a weapon >> > from Star Wars. >> > >> > The question I guess is whether to join the cable/telco crowd and >> > supply the WiFi router and manage it for no additional revenue, and >> > then what to do about the people who still want to put their own Star >> > Wars router behind it. >> > >> > It is very disappointing that since Belkin bought Linksys they are now >> > designing their own Linksys branded routers that are far worse than >> > the Linksys designed E series which certainly had their own problems. >> > I replaced a customer'
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
At the Calix “do” in Las Vegas they presented a case where every single dorm room had one of these. Something like 400 rooms and they all played nicely with each other. From: Sean Heskett Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2016 4:30 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream I replaced my apple AirPort Extreme AC router with the calix and saw a 50-75% improvement in speed and coverage. My friend who live in San Francisco was having severe wifi issues, couldn't even stream music across his living room. Spectrum was clobbered to say the least. Sent him a calix and he's seeing the same speeds over wifi as he his hard wired now. For what it's worth, I don't have any "skin in the game" for calix (I don't own stock or get a kick back etc), I've just been extremely impressed over and over with the amazing results. I've never found a router I've liked as much and felt confident enough to sell to my clients. And it's not any more expensive than anything you can buy for the major vendors. Just here to share my experience etc. 2 cents On Saturday, January 2, 2016, Sterling Jacobson wrote: That's what I had for a while, a Mikrotik 2011 series and a UBNT AC AP commercial grade connected to their top of the line UBNT 48 port PoE switch. In theory it worked well, in practice the AP failed at least once a month and the coverage was sucky. I replaced it with a Nighthawk X6 and coverage improved dramatically and so did throughput. Unfortunately, the Nighthawk dropped to about 1/3 capacity when any feature was turned on that did packet inspection. And their filtering software sucked and their interface was from the 90's. So I just barely purchased myself the top end ASUS mothership. So far the throughput is good, though it does drop from 950Mbps download to about 905Mbps download. BUT packet inspection features don't seem to decrease the speed much, maybe down to high 800's. So far, this is the best all in one solution I have found. Apple might be better, but I'm saving that as my last ditch effort. I like Apple products, but I know I will get sucked in to their whole eco-sphere and probably start purchasing Macbooks and spending 1000's of dollars just for the hell of it at that point, lol! -Original Message- From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2016 10:52 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream You know... I put a wired MT in the back room where our hub is, and a unifi WAP in the center of the house, and we never seem to have problems here. I've got a buddy that lives in town, and he has gone through a half dozen or so different Linksees, dleenks, and so on, and this morning he is asking me for a "recommended router". I'm inclined to set up what we have, so I can stop listening to his whining. (He's not on our service, he's on the evil empire's network). bp On 1/1/2016 9:30 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed Mikrotik > from us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been very trouble > free for us once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters. I think they look > at the pile of discarded routers in their closet and decide to let > someone else deal with it. Most still fall into either the "I can buy > one at Walmart for $50" camp or the "I like going to Best Buy and > letting the sales guy talk me into the $250 router because I like > shopping for expensive toys" camp. And people still look at the > humble little white Mikrotik in its plain brown box and think it can't > possibly match their big black AC1900 router that looks like a weapon > from Star Wars. > > The question I guess is whether to join the cable/telco crowd and > supply the WiFi router and manage it for no additional revenue, and > then what to do about the people who still want to put their own Star > Wars router behind it. > > It is very disappointing that since Belkin bought Linksys they are now > designing their own Linksys branded routers that are far worse than > the Linksys designed E series which certainly had their own problems. > I replaced a customer's Belksys AC1900 router with a Mikrotik this > week and they went from having total dead spots in parts of their > house on both 2.4 and 5 GHz to having full bars and great performance > everywhere including the basement. Their minds were boggled at this > little white box with no external antennas blowing away the big black > monster. > > Of the household brands, Netgear doesn't seem all that bad, except > their low end WNR2000 has a really high failure rate. I see peo
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
TARGET ACQUIRED!
PLUS A GOOGLEPLEX :)
On 1/1/2016 12:07 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
R201 for 802.11ac and then a wired only MT in the basement?
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Fri, Jan 1, 2016 at 1:02 PM, Sterling Jacobson
mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:
I hear you.
My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my customers.
Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim.
I would like to use MikroTik and manage the routing, but I'm
finding that it's still best to get a really nice $100-$300+
single Wireless AC router and place it in the center of the house.
What I would really like is a good split solution with routing in
the head/basement, and wireless AC in bridge mode in one or two
places in the house.
But that doesn't seem to exist.
-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 10:30 AM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed
Mikrotik from us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been
very trouble free for us once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters.
I think they look at the pile of discarded routers in their closet
and decide to let someone else deal with it. Most still fall into
either the "I can buy one at Walmart for $50" camp or the "I like
going to Best Buy and letting the sales guy talk me into the
$250 router because I like shopping for expensive toys" camp. And
people still look at the humble little white Mikrotik in its plain
brown box and think it can't possibly match their big black AC1900
router that looks like a weapon from Star Wars.
The question I guess is whether to join the cable/telco crowd and
supply the WiFi router and manage it for no additional revenue,
and then what to do about the people who still want to put their
own Star Wars router behind it.
It is very disappointing that since Belkin bought Linksys they are
now designing their own Linksys branded routers that are far worse
than the Linksys designed E series which certainly had their own
problems. I replaced a customer's Belksys AC1900 router with a
Mikrotik this week and they went from having total dead spots in
parts of their house on both 2.4 and 5 GHz to having full bars and
great performance everywhere including the basement. Their minds
were boggled at this little white box with no external antennas
blowing away the big black monster.
Of the household brands, Netgear doesn't seem all that bad, except
their low end WNR2000 has a really high failure rate. I see
people starting to trend toward less known brands like Asus and
TP-Link. But too many of my customers think the electronics store
is "Walmart" and they seem to come back with these Belkin pieces
of crap, I particularly hate the model that only has 1 LED on the
whole router and you have to interpret the color and number of
flashes, it's like figuring out what R2D2 is saying. What's that
R2? No link on port 3?
-Original Message-
From: Simon Westlake
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 11:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
I've honestly given up completely on all residential routers, they
seem to be slowly converging on a common denominator which is that
none of them work properly and only last a few months. I had to
replace my router recently, and just got a Mikrotik instead. One
of the guys I work with just replaced his old Linksys with a
Mikrotik, and all of his minor problems went away.
I used to think that it was a bad idea to provide managed routers
to end users, but I'm slowly changing my mind after realizing how
many issues are caused by them. There's also a lot you could do to
provide better service to an end user, hypothetically.. let's say
you put in a DD-WRT or Mikrotik router and setup some shaping on
the client side with SFQ.
They'd probably see a lot less issues with their Netflix buffering
when their Xbox was downloading a game, or their VoIP cutting out
when they're watching Daredevil in 4K.
On 1/1/2016 10:05 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> I had a bad dream where all my customers go to Walmart and buy
Belkin
> routers. I tried to wake up but I wasn't dreaming.
Aaaa!
>
--
Simon Westlake
Skype: Simon_Sonar
Email: simon@sonar.software
Phone: (702) 447-1247
---
Sonar Software Inc
The next generation of ISP billing and OSS https://sonar.software
--
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
I feel yo Pain Maine..! On 1/1/2016 3:34 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: I find it interesting that people practically demand as their right a minimum of gigabit Internet, but do they wire their new houses with fiber or Cat6 to every room so they can actually use that gigabit connection? Nope. Just like they throw a fit if their ISP has any kind of outage, but do they buy a UPS or generator for power outages? Nope. Drives me crazy when I log into towers running on batteries and see zero customers connected. It’s the end of the freaking world if their Internet goes down, but if their power is off, then it’s no big deal. Probably because they use their cellphones, or drive somewhere else because they don’t want to be at home with no lights or heat. But if there’s a raging storm outside, we’re supposed to climb the tower in the dark or set up a portable generator in the rain because they can’t live without Netflix. I suppose they also believe because their router says “AC3400” on the box that means they have 3.4 gig of bandwidth everywhere in their house. Apparently the government is not concerned about the outrageous claims for WiFi router speeds. But if someone speedtests their 1 gig Internet service at 900 meg, it’s time to lodge a complaint against their ISP, for not delivering advertised speeds, or throttling, or violating human rights. *From:* Sean Heskett <mailto:af...@zirkel.us> *Sent:* Friday, January 01, 2016 3:24 PM *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream Calix can do all that and a whole lot more sterling On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson <mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote: I hear you. My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my customers. Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim. I would like to use MikroTik and manage the routing, but I'm finding that it's still best to get a really nice $100-$300+ single Wireless AC router and place it in the center of the house. What I would really like is a good split solution with routing in the head/basement, and wireless AC in bridge mode in one or two places in the house. But that doesn't seem to exist. -Original Message- From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 10:30 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed Mikrotik from us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been very trouble free for us once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters. I think they look at the pile of discarded routers in their closet and decide to let someone else deal with it. Most still fall into either the "I can buy one at Walmart for $50" camp or the "I like going to Best Buy and letting the sales guy talk me into the $250 router because I like shopping for expensive toys" camp. And people still look at the humble little white Mikrotik in its plain brown box and think it can't possibly match their big black AC1900 router that looks like a weapon from Star Wars. The question I guess is whether to join the cable/telco crowd and supply the WiFi router and manage it for no additional revenue, and then what to do about the people who still want to put their own Star Wars router behind it. It is very disappointing that since Belkin bought Linksys they are now designing their own Linksys branded routers that are far worse than the Linksys designed E series which certainly had their own problems. I replaced a customer's Belksys AC1900 router with a Mikrotik this week and they went from having total dead spots in parts of their house on both 2.4 and 5 GHz to having full bars and great performance everywhere including the basement. Their minds were boggled at this little white box with no external antennas blowing away the big black monster. Of the household brands, Netgear doesn't seem all that bad, except their low end WNR2000 has a really high failure rate. I see people starting to trend toward less known brands like Asus and TP-Link. But too many of my customers think the electronics store is "Walmart" and they seem to come back with these Belkin pieces of crap, I particularly hate the model that only has 1 LED on the whole router and you have to interpret the color and number of flashes, it's like figuring out what R2D2 is saying. What's that R2? No link on port 3? -Original Message- From: Simon Westlake Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 11:04 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream I've honestly given up completely on all residential routers, they seem to be slowly converging
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Cool, who is a good person/vendor or direct sales website link to buy and test some? I’ve got a large apartment complex/multiplex coming up and was seriously wondering how that was going to work. From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sean Heskett Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2016 4:31 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream I replaced my apple AirPort Extreme AC router with the calix and saw a 50-75% improvement in speed and coverage. My friend who live in San Francisco was having severe wifi issues, couldn't even stream music across his living room. Spectrum was clobbered to say the least. Sent him a calix and he's seeing the same speeds over wifi as he his hard wired now. For what it's worth, I don't have any "skin in the game" for calix (I don't own stock or get a kick back etc), I've just been extremely impressed over and over with the amazing results. I've never found a router I've liked as much and felt confident enough to sell to my clients. And it's not any more expensive than anything you can buy for the major vendors. Just here to share my experience etc. 2 cents On Saturday, January 2, 2016, Sterling Jacobson mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote: That's what I had for a while, a Mikrotik 2011 series and a UBNT AC AP commercial grade connected to their top of the line UBNT 48 port PoE switch. In theory it worked well, in practice the AP failed at least once a month and the coverage was sucky. I replaced it with a Nighthawk X6 and coverage improved dramatically and so did throughput. Unfortunately, the Nighthawk dropped to about 1/3 capacity when any feature was turned on that did packet inspection. And their filtering software sucked and their interface was from the 90's. So I just barely purchased myself the top end ASUS mothership. So far the throughput is good, though it does drop from 950Mbps download to about 905Mbps download. BUT packet inspection features don't seem to decrease the speed much, maybe down to high 800's. So far, this is the best all in one solution I have found. Apple might be better, but I'm saving that as my last ditch effort. I like Apple products, but I know I will get sucked in to their whole eco-sphere and probably start purchasing Macbooks and spending 1000's of dollars just for the hell of it at that point, lol! -Original Message- From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2016 10:52 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream You know... I put a wired MT in the back room where our hub is, and a unifi WAP in the center of the house, and we never seem to have problems here. I've got a buddy that lives in town, and he has gone through a half dozen or so different Linksees, dleenks, and so on, and this morning he is asking me for a "recommended router". I'm inclined to set up what we have, so I can stop listening to his whining. (He's not on our service, he's on the evil empire's network). bp On 1/1/2016 9:30 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed Mikrotik > from us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been very trouble > free for us once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters. I think they look > at the pile of discarded routers in their closet and decide to let > someone else deal with it. Most still fall into either the "I can buy > one at Walmart for $50" camp or the "I like going to Best Buy and > letting the sales guy talk me into the $250 router because I like > shopping for expensive toys" camp. And people still look at the > humble little white Mikrotik in its plain brown box and think it can't > possibly match their big black AC1900 router that looks like a weapon > from Star Wars. > > The question I guess is whether to join the cable/telco crowd and > supply the WiFi router and manage it for no additional revenue, and > then what to do about the people who still want to put their own Star > Wars router behind it. > > It is very disappointing that since Belkin bought Linksys they are now > designing their own Linksys branded routers that are far worse than > the Linksys designed E series which certainly had their own problems. > I replaced a customer's Belksys AC1900 router with a Mikrotik this > week and they went from having total dead spots in parts of their > house on both 2.4 and 5 GHz to having full bars and great performance > everywhere including the basement. Their minds were boggled at this > little white box with no external antennas blowing away the big black > monster. > > Of the household brands, Netgear doesn't seem all that bad, except > their low end WNR2000 has a really high failure rate. I see
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Does the gpon version have integrated optics? That could account for the price difference... On Saturday, January 2, 2016, Josh Reynolds wrote: > Interesting. I'm curious why our price on the gpon version is $244/ea then. > On Jan 1, 2016 10:41 PM, "Sean Heskett" > wrote: > >> It's the 844E copper Ethernet version. >> >> >> On Friday, January 1, 2016, Josh Reynolds > > wrote: >> >>> Wait, are these the gpon gigacenters, 802.11AC, beamforming? >>> On Jan 1, 2016 9:31 PM, "Sean Heskett" wrote: >>> >>>> I don't know where you are getting your pricing for calix Josh but we >>>> are paying nowhere near what you are stating here. >>>> >>>> We buy the gigacenters for $149 and the cloud platform is $150/mo for >>>> 500 users. >>>> >>>> We charge $99 "setup fee" to our clients and $12/mo. for our "managed >>>> wifi" service. ROI is ~4months/client. >>>> >>>> So the first 13 clients pay for the cloud platform for the other 487. >>>> >>>> Sean >>>> >>>> >>>> On Friday, January 1, 2016, Josh Reynolds wrote: >>>> >>>>> I have a very modest home if you don't count the barn and unfinished >>>>> basement. Around 1860sqrft. 5GHz barely works through one plaster or >>>>> sheetrock wall in my home. >>>>> >>>>> I'm "desiring" a solution where we can have the customer name and >>>>> account number in the admin panel, then drill down and manage their gpon >>>>> router, and the multiple wireless APs on their account. Flow export is >>>>> okay, but procera does a far better job than calix in that regard (data >>>>> monitoring for customer troubleshooting). >>>>> >>>>> Hopefully this comes to fruition without costing us $7+ /sub/month >>>>> like calix does. >>>>> On Jan 1, 2016 5:42 PM, "Ken Hohhof" wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Interesting they refer to 2.4 GHz as for “legacy devices”. I suspect >>>>>> that 5 GHz in the large homes of the likely target market will need more >>>>>> than 1 access point to cover the entire house, despite the best MIMO and >>>>>> beamforming technology. Especially the way some customers resist >>>>>> locating >>>>>> the router at the center of the house because “I don’t want to look at >>>>>> wires”. >>>>>> >>>>>> Really, new houses should be designed and wired with probably 10 >>>>>> gigabit Internet in mind, assuming you won’t want to rip the walls open >>>>>> in >>>>>> 10 or 20 years to rewire. If rooms are designed with places for “network >>>>>> boxes” and fiber or Cat6/7 cable back to a hub point, the electronics can >>>>>> be upgraded as technology evolves. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:* Chuck McCown >>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 01, 2016 4:50 PM >>>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.calix.com/systems/gigafamily-overview/GigaCenters.html >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:* Sterling Jacobson >>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 01, 2016 3:36 PM >>>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Ok, do you have a link to information then? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I’m not familiar with Calix for this particular solution, though I’ve >>>>>> heard of them. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, I’m lazy J >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett >>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 1, 2016 3:25 PM >>>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> $149 >>>>>> >>>>>> On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson >>>>>> wrote: >>
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
I will hook you up. From: Sterling Jacobson Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2016 6:07 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream Cool, who is a good person/vendor or direct sales website link to buy and test some? I’ve got a large apartment complex/multiplex coming up and was seriously wondering how that was going to work. From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sean Heskett Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2016 4:31 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream I replaced my apple AirPort Extreme AC router with the calix and saw a 50-75% improvement in speed and coverage. My friend who live in San Francisco was having severe wifi issues, couldn't even stream music across his living room. Spectrum was clobbered to say the least. Sent him a calix and he's seeing the same speeds over wifi as he his hard wired now. For what it's worth, I don't have any "skin in the game" for calix (I don't own stock or get a kick back etc), I've just been extremely impressed over and over with the amazing results. I've never found a router I've liked as much and felt confident enough to sell to my clients. And it's not any more expensive than anything you can buy for the major vendors. Just here to share my experience etc. 2 cents On Saturday, January 2, 2016, Sterling Jacobson wrote: That's what I had for a while, a Mikrotik 2011 series and a UBNT AC AP commercial grade connected to their top of the line UBNT 48 port PoE switch. In theory it worked well, in practice the AP failed at least once a month and the coverage was sucky. I replaced it with a Nighthawk X6 and coverage improved dramatically and so did throughput. Unfortunately, the Nighthawk dropped to about 1/3 capacity when any feature was turned on that did packet inspection. And their filtering software sucked and their interface was from the 90's. So I just barely purchased myself the top end ASUS mothership. So far the throughput is good, though it does drop from 950Mbps download to about 905Mbps download. BUT packet inspection features don't seem to decrease the speed much, maybe down to high 800's. So far, this is the best all in one solution I have found. Apple might be better, but I'm saving that as my last ditch effort. I like Apple products, but I know I will get sucked in to their whole eco-sphere and probably start purchasing Macbooks and spending 1000's of dollars just for the hell of it at that point, lol! -Original Message- From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2016 10:52 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream You know... I put a wired MT in the back room where our hub is, and a unifi WAP in the center of the house, and we never seem to have problems here. I've got a buddy that lives in town, and he has gone through a half dozen or so different Linksees, dleenks, and so on, and this morning he is asking me for a "recommended router". I'm inclined to set up what we have, so I can stop listening to his whining. (He's not on our service, he's on the evil empire's network). bp On 1/1/2016 9:30 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed Mikrotik > from us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been very trouble > free for us once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters. I think they look > at the pile of discarded routers in their closet and decide to let > someone else deal with it. Most still fall into either the "I can buy > one at Walmart for $50" camp or the "I like going to Best Buy and > letting the sales guy talk me into the $250 router because I like > shopping for expensive toys" camp. And people still look at the > humble little white Mikrotik in its plain brown box and think it can't > possibly match their big black AC1900 router that looks like a weapon > from Star Wars. > > The question I guess is whether to join the cable/telco crowd and > supply the WiFi router and manage it for no additional revenue, and > then what to do about the people who still want to put their own Star > Wars router behind it. > > It is very disappointing that since Belkin bought Linksys they are now > designing their own Linksys branded routers that are far worse than > the Linksys designed E series which certainly had their own problems. > I replaced a customer's Belksys AC1900 router with a Mikrotik this > week and they went from having total dead spots in parts of their > house on both 2.4 and 5 GHz to having full bars and great performance > everywhere including the basement. Their minds were boggled at this > little white
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Can you share more ingo on this chuck? The poe adapter. On Jan 1, 2016 4:26 PM, "Chuck McCown" wrote: > Yep, I am building a POE adapter for the gigacenter too... > Love their flow software. > > *From:* Sean Heskett > *Sent:* Friday, January 01, 2016 2:24 PM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream > > Calix can do all that and a whole lot more sterling > > > > On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson > wrote: > >> I hear you. >> >> My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my customers. >> >> Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim. >> >> I would like to use MikroTik and manage the routing, but I'm finding that >> it's still best to get a really nice $100-$300+ single Wireless AC router >> and place it in the center of the house. >> >> What I would really like is a good split solution with routing in the >> head/basement, and wireless AC in bridge mode in one or two places in the >> house. >> >> But that doesn't seem to exist. >> >> -----Original Message- >> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof >> Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 10:30 AM >> To: af@afmug.com >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >> >> I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed Mikrotik >> from us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been very trouble free >> for us once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters. I think they look at the >> pile of discarded routers in their closet and decide to let someone else >> deal with it. Most still fall into either the "I can buy one at Walmart >> for $50" camp or the "I like going to Best Buy and letting the sales guy >> talk me into the >> $250 router because I like shopping for expensive toys" camp. And people >> still look at the humble little white Mikrotik in its plain brown box and >> think it can't possibly match their big black AC1900 router that looks like >> a weapon from Star Wars. >> >> The question I guess is whether to join the cable/telco crowd and supply >> the WiFi router and manage it for no additional revenue, and then what to >> do about the people who still want to put their own Star Wars router behind >> it. >> >> It is very disappointing that since Belkin bought Linksys they are now >> designing their own Linksys branded routers that are far worse than the >> Linksys designed E series which certainly had their own problems. I >> replaced a customer's Belksys AC1900 router with a Mikrotik this week and >> they went from having total dead spots in parts of their house on both 2.4 >> and 5 GHz to having full bars and great performance everywhere including >> the basement. Their minds were boggled at this little white box with no >> external antennas blowing away the big black monster. >> >> Of the household brands, Netgear doesn't seem all that bad, except their >> low end WNR2000 has a really high failure rate. I see people starting to >> trend toward less known brands like Asus and TP-Link. But too many of my >> customers think the electronics store is "Walmart" and they seem to come >> back with these Belkin pieces of crap, I particularly hate the model that >> only has 1 LED on the whole router and you have to interpret the color and >> number of flashes, it's like figuring out what R2D2 is saying. What's that >> R2? No link on port 3? >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Simon Westlake >> Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 11:04 AM >> To: af@afmug.com >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >> >> I've honestly given up completely on all residential routers, they seem >> to be slowly converging on a common denominator which is that none of them >> work properly and only last a few months. I had to replace my router >> recently, and just got a Mikrotik instead. One of the guys I work with just >> replaced his old Linksys with a Mikrotik, and all of his minor problems >> went away. >> >> I used to think that it was a bad idea to provide managed routers to end >> users, but I'm slowly changing my mind after realizing how many issues are >> caused by them. There's also a lot you could do to provide better service >> to an end user, hypothetically.. let's say you put in a DD-WRT or Mikrotik >> router and setup some shaping on the client side with SFQ. >> They'd probably see a lot less issues with their Netflix buffering when >> their Xbox was downloading a game, or their VoIP cutting out when they're >> watching Daredevil in 4K. >> >> On 1/1/2016 10:05 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: >> > I had a bad dream where all my customers go to Walmart and buy Belkin >> > routers. I tried to wake up but I wasn't dreaming. >> Aaaa! >> > >> >> -- >> Simon Westlake >> Skype: Simon_Sonar >> Email: simon@sonar.software >> Phone: (702) 447-1247 >> --- >> Sonar Software Inc >> The next generation of ISP billing and OSS https://sonar.software >> >> >>
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Here's the Colorado sales rep who can get you in touch with the Utah sales rep sterling. lonny.ma...@calix.com On Saturday, January 2, 2016, Sterling Jacobson wrote: > Cool, who is a good person/vendor or direct sales website link to buy and > test some? > > > > I’ve got a large apartment complex/multiplex coming up and was seriously > wondering how that was going to work. > > > > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com > ] *On Behalf Of *Sean > Heskett > *Sent:* Saturday, January 2, 2016 4:31 PM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream > > > > I replaced my apple AirPort Extreme AC router with the calix and saw a > 50-75% improvement in speed and coverage. > > > > My friend who live in San Francisco was having severe wifi issues, > couldn't even stream music across his living room. Spectrum was clobbered > to say the least. Sent him a calix and he's seeing the same speeds over > wifi as he his hard wired now. > > > > For what it's worth, I don't have any "skin in the game" for calix (I > don't own stock or get a kick back etc), I've just been extremely impressed > over and over with the amazing results. I've never found a router I've > liked as much and felt confident enough to sell to my clients. And it's > not any more expensive than anything you can buy for the major vendors. > > > > Just here to share my experience etc. > > > > 2 cents > > On Saturday, January 2, 2016, Sterling Jacobson > wrote: > > That's what I had for a while, a Mikrotik 2011 series and a UBNT AC AP > commercial grade connected to their top of the line UBNT 48 port PoE switch. > > In theory it worked well, in practice the AP failed at least once a month > and the coverage was sucky. > > I replaced it with a Nighthawk X6 and coverage improved dramatically and > so did throughput. > > Unfortunately, the Nighthawk dropped to about 1/3 capacity when any > feature was turned on that did packet inspection. > And their filtering software sucked and their interface was from the 90's. > > So I just barely purchased myself the top end ASUS mothership. > > So far the throughput is good, though it does drop from 950Mbps download > to about 905Mbps download. > > BUT packet inspection features don't seem to decrease the speed much, > maybe down to high 800's. > > So far, this is the best all in one solution I have found. > > Apple might be better, but I'm saving that as my last ditch effort. > I like Apple products, but I know I will get sucked in to their whole > eco-sphere and probably start purchasing Macbooks and spending 1000's of > dollars just for the hell of it at that point, lol! > > -Original Message- > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince > Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2016 10:52 AM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream > > You know... I put a wired MT in the back room where our hub is, and a > unifi WAP in the center of the house, and we never seem to have problems > here. > > I've got a buddy that lives in town, and he has gone through a half dozen > or so different Linksees, dleenks, and so on, and this morning he is asking > me for a "recommended router". I'm inclined to set up what we have, so I > can stop listening to his whining. (He's not on our service, he's on the > evil empire's network). > > > bp > > > On 1/1/2016 9:30 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > > I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed Mikrotik > > from us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been very trouble > > free for us once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters. I think they look > > at the pile of discarded routers in their closet and decide to let > > someone else deal with it. Most still fall into either the "I can buy > > one at Walmart for $50" camp or the "I like going to Best Buy and > > letting the sales guy talk me into the $250 router because I like > > shopping for expensive toys" camp. And people still look at the > > humble little white Mikrotik in its plain brown box and think it can't > > possibly match their big black AC1900 router that looks like a weapon > > from Star Wars. > > > > The question I guess is whether to join the cable/telco crowd and > > supply the WiFi router and manage it for no additional revenue, and > > then what to do about the people who still want to put their own Star > > Wars router behind it. > > > > It is very disappointing that since Belkin bought Linksys they are no
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
It is my APC-POE surge suppressor combined with a 48 to 12 VDC buck converter.
Right now it is a kludge. If it powers up the 844E OK under max load while
being powered from a netonix switch I will combine the two circuits onto a
board and look for an appropriate case for it.
From: Chris Fabien
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2016 7:30 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Can you share more ingo on this chuck? The poe adapter.
On Jan 1, 2016 4:26 PM, "Chuck McCown" wrote:
Yep, I am building a POE adapter for the gigacenter too...
Love their flow software.
From: Sean Heskett
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 2:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Calix can do all that and a whole lot more sterling
On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson wrote:
I hear you.
My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my customers.
Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim.
I would like to use MikroTik and manage the routing, but I'm finding that
it's still best to get a really nice $100-$300+ single Wireless AC router and
place it in the center of the house.
What I would really like is a good split solution with routing in the
head/basement, and wireless AC in bridge mode in one or two places in the house.
But that doesn't seem to exist.
-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 10:30 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed Mikrotik from
us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been very trouble free for us
once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters. I think they look at the pile of
discarded routers in their closet and decide to let someone else deal with it.
Most still fall into either the "I can buy one at Walmart for $50" camp or the
"I like going to Best Buy and letting the sales guy talk me into the
$250 router because I like shopping for expensive toys" camp. And people
still look at the humble little white Mikrotik in its plain brown box and think
it can't possibly match their big black AC1900 router that looks like a weapon
from Star Wars.
The question I guess is whether to join the cable/telco crowd and supply
the WiFi router and manage it for no additional revenue, and then what to do
about the people who still want to put their own Star Wars router behind it.
It is very disappointing that since Belkin bought Linksys they are now
designing their own Linksys branded routers that are far worse than the Linksys
designed E series which certainly had their own problems. I replaced a
customer's Belksys AC1900 router with a Mikrotik this week and they went from
having total dead spots in parts of their house on both 2.4 and 5 GHz to having
full bars and great performance everywhere including the basement. Their minds
were boggled at this little white box with no external antennas blowing away
the big black monster.
Of the household brands, Netgear doesn't seem all that bad, except their
low end WNR2000 has a really high failure rate. I see people starting to trend
toward less known brands like Asus and TP-Link. But too many of my customers
think the electronics store is "Walmart" and they seem to come back with these
Belkin pieces of crap, I particularly hate the model that only has 1 LED on the
whole router and you have to interpret the color and number of flashes, it's
like figuring out what R2D2 is saying. What's that R2? No link on port 3?
-Original Message-
From: Simon Westlake
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 11:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
I've honestly given up completely on all residential routers, they seem to
be slowly converging on a common denominator which is that none of them work
properly and only last a few months. I had to replace my router recently, and
just got a Mikrotik instead. One of the guys I work with just replaced his old
Linksys with a Mikrotik, and all of his minor problems went away.
I used to think that it was a bad idea to provide managed routers to end
users, but I'm slowly changing my mind after realizing how many issues are
caused by them. There's also a lot you could do to provide better service to an
end user, hypothetically.. let's say you put in a DD-WRT or Mikrotik router and
setup some shaping on the client side with SFQ.
They'd probably see a lot less issues with their Netflix buffering when
their Xbox was downloading a game, or their VoIP cutting out when they're
watching Daredevil in 4K.
On 1/1/2016 10:05 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> I had a bad dream where all my customers go to Walmart and buy Belkin
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Is that the media converter thing you were talking about?
Can you make something like that in reverse? Say I have a hybrid
power+fiber cable up the tower and I want to power up a 20-56VDC radio.
The most common thing I'm thinking of here is an AF24, because UBNT
decided not to put an SFP and a DC input block on the damn things. For
one or two radios, at different heights I might add, throwing something
like a Netonix switch up there doesn't make sense. Plus they're PTPs
that I want to go straight into physical router interfaces. The media
converter should also pass through the link status in both directions. I
have some cheap-o Startech media converters that don't do that, even
though there's a dip switch for it, but it doesn't work, and it pisses
me off.
On 1/2/2016 9:45 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
It is my APC-POE surge suppressor combined with a 48 to 12 VDC buck
converter. Right now it is a kludge. If it powers up the 844E OK
under max load while being powered from a netonix switch I will
combine the two circuits onto a board and look for an appropriate case
for it.
*From:* Chris Fabien <mailto:ch...@lakenetmi.com>
*Sent:* Saturday, January 02, 2016 7:30 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Can you share more ingo on this chuck? The poe adapter.
On Jan 1, 2016 4:26 PM, "Chuck McCown" <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
Yep, I am building a POE adapter for the gigacenter too...
Love their flow software.
*From:* Sean Heskett <mailto:af...@zirkel.us>
*Sent:* Friday, January 01, 2016 2:24 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Calix can do all that and a whole lot more sterling
On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson
mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:
I hear you.
My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my customers.
Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim.
I would like to use MikroTik and manage the routing, but I'm
finding that it's still best to get a really nice $100-$300+
single Wireless AC router and place it in the center of the house.
What I would really like is a good split solution with routing
in the head/basement, and wireless AC in bridge mode in one or
two places in the house.
But that doesn't seem to exist.
-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 10:30 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed
Mikrotik from us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has
been very trouble free for us once we tweak a couple WiFi
parameters. I think they look at the pile of discarded
routers in their closet and decide to let someone else deal
with it. Most still fall into either the "I can buy one at
Walmart for $50" camp or the "I like going to Best Buy and
letting the sales guy talk me into the
$250 router because I like shopping for expensive toys" camp.
And people still look at the humble little white Mikrotik in
its plain brown box and think it can't possibly match their
big black AC1900 router that looks like a weapon from Star Wars.
The question I guess is whether to join the cable/telco crowd
and supply the WiFi router and manage it for no additional
revenue, and then what to do about the people who still want
to put their own Star Wars router behind it.
It is very disappointing that since Belkin bought Linksys they
are now designing their own Linksys branded routers that are
far worse than the Linksys designed E series which certainly
had their own problems. I replaced a customer's Belksys
AC1900 router with a Mikrotik this week and they went from
having total dead spots in parts of their house on both 2.4
and 5 GHz to having full bars and great performance everywhere
including the basement. Their minds were boggled at this
little white box with no external antennas blowing away the
big black monster.
Of the household brands, Netgear doesn't seem all that bad,
except their low end WNR2000 has a really high failure rate.
I see people starting to trend toward less known brands like
Asus and TP-Link. But too many of my customers think the
electronics store is "Walmart" and they seem to come back with
these Belkin pieces of crap, I particularly hate the model
that only has 1 LED on the whole router and you have to
inter
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
No, that is a different project.
So you want to inject POE into an ethernet circuit? Both of my POE surge
suppressors will do that.
From: George Skorup
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2016 9:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Is that the media converter thing you were talking about?
Can you make something like that in reverse? Say I have a hybrid power+fiber
cable up the tower and I want to power up a 20-56VDC radio. The most common
thing I'm thinking of here is an AF24, because UBNT decided not to put an SFP
and a DC input block on the damn things. For one or two radios, at different
heights I might add, throwing something like a Netonix switch up there doesn't
make sense. Plus they're PTPs that I want to go straight into physical router
interfaces. The media converter should also pass through the link status in
both directions. I have some cheap-o Startech media converters that don't do
that, even though there's a dip switch for it, but it doesn't work, and it
pisses me off.
On 1/2/2016 9:45 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
It is my APC-POE surge suppressor combined with a 48 to 12 VDC buck
converter. Right now it is a kludge. If it powers up the 844E OK under max
load while being powered from a netonix switch I will combine the two circuits
onto a board and look for an appropriate case for it.
From: Chris Fabien
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2016 7:30 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Can you share more ingo on this chuck? The poe adapter.
On Jan 1, 2016 4:26 PM, "Chuck McCown" wrote:
Yep, I am building a POE adapter for the gigacenter too...
Love their flow software.
From: Sean Heskett
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 2:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Calix can do all that and a whole lot more sterling
On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson wrote:
I hear you.
My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my customers.
Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim.
I would like to use MikroTik and manage the routing, but I'm finding that
it's still best to get a really nice $100-$300+ single Wireless AC router and
place it in the center of the house.
What I would really like is a good split solution with routing in the
head/basement, and wireless AC in bridge mode in one or two places in the house.
But that doesn't seem to exist.
-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 10:30 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed Mikrotik
from us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been very trouble free for
us once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters. I think they look at the pile of
discarded routers in their closet and decide to let someone else deal with it.
Most still fall into either the "I can buy one at Walmart for $50" camp or the
"I like going to Best Buy and letting the sales guy talk me into the
$250 router because I like shopping for expensive toys" camp. And people
still look at the humble little white Mikrotik in its plain brown box and think
it can't possibly match their big black AC1900 router that looks like a weapon
from Star Wars.
The question I guess is whether to join the cable/telco crowd and supply
the WiFi router and manage it for no additional revenue, and then what to do
about the people who still want to put their own Star Wars router behind it.
It is very disappointing that since Belkin bought Linksys they are now
designing their own Linksys branded routers that are far worse than the Linksys
designed E series which certainly had their own problems. I replaced a
customer's Belksys AC1900 router with a Mikrotik this week and they went from
having total dead spots in parts of their house on both 2.4 and 5 GHz to having
full bars and great performance everywhere including the basement. Their minds
were boggled at this little white box with no external antennas blowing away
the big black monster.
Of the household brands, Netgear doesn't seem all that bad, except their
low end WNR2000 has a really high failure rate. I see people starting to trend
toward less known brands like Asus and TP-Link. But too many of my customers
think the electronics store is "Walmart" and they seem to come back with these
Belkin pieces of crap, I particularly hate the model that only has 1 LED on the
whole router and you have to interpret the color and number of flashes, it's
like figuring out what R2D2 is saying. What's that R2? No link on port 3?
-Original Message-----
From: Simon Westlake
Sent:
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
No, I mean a single-port media converter and a PoE injector in a box
that goes on the tower next to the radio. A 2-3 foot cat5 out to the
radio's POE+data port.
Fiber + power coming from the shelter. A DC input block. An SFP or even
a fixed optical interface would be fine. 24-48VDC powers this box and
also sends POE out of the RJ45 port w/ jumpers to select pair polarity
like a GIGE-APC-POE. Kinda parasitic power like Forrest's SyncPipe
Parasitic's.
I'm thinking it would also be pretty cool not only for stuff like the
AF24, but think about 450 or 450i APs too. If it could also pass
sync-over-power, you'd have a very usable product. I know at one point
Forrest was talking about doing a SyncInjector module that only put out
power+sync, no ethernet. The idea was to feed it into your GIGE-APC-POE
cards.
Most of the -48 licensed stuff already has DC + fiber input, so this
wouldn't be for that. I guess it would work for radios like the Exalt
ExtendAir G2 which is copper PoE only, and either secondary copper GigE
or special order T1/E1, but the main port is 802.3at POE.
On 1/2/2016 10:11 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
No, that is a different project.
So you want to inject POE into an ethernet circuit? Both of my POE
surge suppressors will do that.
*From:* George Skorup <mailto:geo...@cbcast.com>
*Sent:* Saturday, January 02, 2016 9:07 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Is that the media converter thing you were talking about?
Can you make something like that in reverse? Say I have a hybrid
power+fiber cable up the tower and I want to power up a 20-56VDC
radio. The most common thing I'm thinking of here is an AF24, because
UBNT decided not to put an SFP and a DC input block on the damn
things. For one or two radios, at different heights I might add,
throwing something like a Netonix switch up there doesn't make sense.
Plus they're PTPs that I want to go straight into physical router
interfaces. The media converter should also pass through the link
status in both directions. I have some cheap-o Startech media
converters that don't do that, even though there's a dip switch for
it, but it doesn't work, and it pisses me off.
On 1/2/2016 9:45 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
It is my APC-POE surge suppressor combined with a 48 to 12 VDC buck
converter. Right now it is a kludge. If it powers up the 844E OK
under max load while being powered from a netonix switch I will
combine the two circuits onto a board and look for an appropriate
case for it.
*From:* Chris Fabien <mailto:ch...@lakenetmi.com>
*Sent:* Saturday, January 02, 2016 7:30 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Can you share more ingo on this chuck? The poe adapter.
On Jan 1, 2016 4:26 PM, "Chuck McCown" <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
Yep, I am building a POE adapter for the gigacenter too...
Love their flow software.
*From:* Sean Heskett <mailto:af...@zirkel.us>
*Sent:* Friday, January 01, 2016 2:24 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Calix can do all that and a whole lot more sterling
On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson
mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:
I hear you.
My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my customers.
Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim.
I would like to use MikroTik and manage the routing, but I'm
finding that it's still best to get a really nice $100-$300+
single Wireless AC router and place it in the center of the
house.
What I would really like is a good split solution with
routing in the head/basement, and wireless AC in bridge mode
in one or two places in the house.
But that doesn't seem to exist.
-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 10:30 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed
Mikrotik from us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has
been very trouble free for us once we tweak a couple WiFi
parameters. I think they look at the pile of discarded
routers in their closet and decide to let someone else deal
with it. Most still fall into either the "I can buy one at
Walmart for $50" camp or the "I like going to Best Buy and
letting the sales guy talk me into the
$250 router because I like shopping for expensive toys"
camp. And people still look at the humble little white
Mikrotik in its plain brown box and think it can't p
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
OK, yeah, I was considering this configuration. Still a work in progress.
From: George Skorup
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2016 9:33 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
No, I mean a single-port media converter and a PoE injector in a box that goes
on the tower next to the radio. A 2-3 foot cat5 out to the radio's POE+data
port.
Fiber + power coming from the shelter. A DC input block. An SFP or even a fixed
optical interface would be fine. 24-48VDC powers this box and also sends POE
out of the RJ45 port w/ jumpers to select pair polarity like a GIGE-APC-POE.
Kinda parasitic power like Forrest's SyncPipe Parasitic's.
I'm thinking it would also be pretty cool not only for stuff like the AF24, but
think about 450 or 450i APs too. If it could also pass sync-over-power, you'd
have a very usable product. I know at one point Forrest was talking about doing
a SyncInjector module that only put out power+sync, no ethernet. The idea was
to feed it into your GIGE-APC-POE cards.
Most of the -48 licensed stuff already has DC + fiber input, so this wouldn't
be for that. I guess it would work for radios like the Exalt ExtendAir G2 which
is copper PoE only, and either secondary copper GigE or special order T1/E1,
but the main port is 802.3at POE.
On 1/2/2016 10:11 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
No, that is a different project.
So you want to inject POE into an ethernet circuit? Both of my POE surge
suppressors will do that.
From: George Skorup
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2016 9:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Is that the media converter thing you were talking about?
Can you make something like that in reverse? Say I have a hybrid power+fiber
cable up the tower and I want to power up a 20-56VDC radio. The most common
thing I'm thinking of here is an AF24, because UBNT decided not to put an SFP
and a DC input block on the damn things. For one or two radios, at different
heights I might add, throwing something like a Netonix switch up there doesn't
make sense. Plus they're PTPs that I want to go straight into physical router
interfaces. The media converter should also pass through the link status in
both directions. I have some cheap-o Startech media converters that don't do
that, even though there's a dip switch for it, but it doesn't work, and it
pisses me off.
On 1/2/2016 9:45 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
It is my APC-POE surge suppressor combined with a 48 to 12 VDC buck
converter. Right now it is a kludge. If it powers up the 844E OK under max
load while being powered from a netonix switch I will combine the two circuits
onto a board and look for an appropriate case for it.
From: Chris Fabien
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2016 7:30 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Can you share more ingo on this chuck? The poe adapter.
On Jan 1, 2016 4:26 PM, "Chuck McCown" wrote:
Yep, I am building a POE adapter for the gigacenter too...
Love their flow software.
From: Sean Heskett
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 2:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Calix can do all that and a whole lot more sterling
On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson
wrote:
I hear you.
My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my customers.
Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim.
I would like to use MikroTik and manage the routing, but I'm finding
that it's still best to get a really nice $100-$300+ single Wireless AC router
and place it in the center of the house.
What I would really like is a good split solution with routing in the
head/basement, and wireless AC in bridge mode in one or two places in the house.
But that doesn't seem to exist.
-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 10:30 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed Mikrotik
from us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been very trouble free for
us once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters. I think they look at the pile of
discarded routers in their closet and decide to let someone else deal with it.
Most still fall into either the "I can buy one at Walmart for $50" camp or the
"I like going to Best Buy and letting the sales guy talk me into the
$250 router because I like shopping for expensive toys" camp. And
people still look at the humble little white Mikrotik in its plain brown box
and think it can't possibly match their big black AC1900 router that looks like
a weapon from Star Wars.
The question I guess is
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
At a recent show I spent some time asking people about doing this very product... That is, a DC powered fiber to poe injector. Small box at the top, run power and fiber to it, and a short jumper to the radio. I had gotten as far as finding the appropriate silicon to do this. I also asked on this list. The response I got was underwhelming. Either they had no interest in this at all or they didn't see any reason why they wouldn't just put a small netonix in a box at the top and then only run a single fiber. After asking a lot of potential costumers and I don't think getting a single positive feedback I abandoned the idea, although I still think it's an excellent idea. On Jan 2, 2016 9:33 PM, "George Skorup" wrote: > > No, I mean a single-port media converter and a PoE injector in a box that goes on the tower next to the radio. A 2-3 foot cat5 out to the radio's POE+data port. > > Fiber + power coming from the shelter. A DC input block. An SFP or even a fixed optical interface would be fine. 24-48VDC powers this box and also sends POE out of the RJ45 port w/ jumpers to select pair polarity like a GIGE-APC-POE. Kinda parasitic power like Forrest's SyncPipe Parasitic's. > > I'm thinking it would also be pretty cool not only for stuff like the AF24, but think about 450 or 450i APs too. If it could also pass sync-over-power, you'd have a very usable product. I know at one point Forrest was talking about doing a SyncInjector module that only put out power+sync, no ethernet. The idea was to feed it into your GIGE-APC-POE cards. > > Most of the -48 licensed stuff already has DC + fiber input, so this wouldn't be for that. I guess it would work for radios like the Exalt ExtendAir G2 which is copper PoE only, and either secondary copper GigE or special order T1/E1, but the main port is 802.3at POE. > > > On 1/2/2016 10:11 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: >> >> No, that is a different project. >> >> So you want to inject POE into an ethernet circuit? Both of my POE surge suppressors will do that. >> >> From: George Skorup >> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2016 9:07 PM >> To: af@afmug.com >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >> >> Is that the media converter thing you were talking about? >> >> Can you make something like that in reverse? Say I have a hybrid power+fiber cable up the tower and I want to power up a 20-56VDC radio. The most common thing I'm thinking of here is an AF24, because UBNT decided not to put an SFP and a DC input block on the damn things. For one or two radios, at different heights I might add, throwing something like a Netonix switch up there doesn't make sense. Plus they're PTPs that I want to go straight into physical router interfaces. The media converter should also pass through the link status in both directions. I have some cheap-o Startech media converters that don't do that, even though there's a dip switch for it, but it doesn't work, and it pisses me off. >> >> On 1/2/2016 9:45 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: >>> >>> It is my APC-POE surge suppressor combined with a 48 to 12 VDC buck converter. Right now it is a kludge. If it powers up the 844E OK under max load while being powered from a netonix switch I will combine the two circuits onto a board and look for an appropriate case for it. >>> >>> From: Chris Fabien >>> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2016 7:30 PM >>> To: af@afmug.com >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >>> >>> >>> Can you share more ingo on this chuck? The poe adapter. >>> >>> On Jan 1, 2016 4:26 PM, "Chuck McCown" wrote: >>>> >>>> Yep, I am building a POE adapter for the gigacenter too... >>>> Love their flow software. >>>> >>>> From: Sean Heskett >>>> Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 2:24 PM >>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >>>> >>>> Calix can do all that and a whole lot more sterling >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I hear you. >>>>> >>>>> My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my customers. >>>>> >>>>> Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim. >>>>> >>>>> I would like to use MikroTik and manage the routing, but I'm finding that it's still best to get a really nice $100-$300+ single Wireless AC router and place it in the center of the house. >>>>> >>>>> What I would really like is a good split solution wi
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
You're basically taking about one of the new Ubiquiti EdgePoint variants. DC and fiber in to router/switch, multiple POE ports out. On Jan 2, 2016 10:33 PM, "George Skorup" wrote: > No, I mean a single-port media converter and a PoE injector in a box that > goes on the tower next to the radio. A 2-3 foot cat5 out to the radio's > POE+data port. > > Fiber + power coming from the shelter. A DC input block. An SFP or even a > fixed optical interface would be fine. 24-48VDC powers this box and also > sends POE out of the RJ45 port w/ jumpers to select pair polarity like a > GIGE-APC-POE. Kinda parasitic power like Forrest's SyncPipe Parasitic's. > > I'm thinking it would also be pretty cool not only for stuff like the > AF24, but think about 450 or 450i APs too. If it could also pass > sync-over-power, you'd have a very usable product. I know at one point > Forrest was talking about doing a SyncInjector module that only put out > power+sync, no ethernet. The idea was to feed it into your GIGE-APC-POE > cards. > > Most of the -48 licensed stuff already has DC + fiber input, so this > wouldn't be for that. I guess it would work for radios like the Exalt > ExtendAir G2 which is copper PoE only, and either secondary copper GigE or > special order T1/E1, but the main port is 802.3at POE. > > On 1/2/2016 10:11 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: > > No, that is a different project. > > So you want to inject POE into an ethernet circuit? Both of my POE surge > suppressors will do that. > > *From:* George Skorup > *Sent:* Saturday, January 02, 2016 9:07 PM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream > > Is that the media converter thing you were talking about? > > Can you make something like that in reverse? Say I have a hybrid > power+fiber cable up the tower and I want to power up a 20-56VDC radio. The > most common thing I'm thinking of here is an AF24, because UBNT decided not > to put an SFP and a DC input block on the damn things. For one or two > radios, at different heights I might add, throwing something like a Netonix > switch up there doesn't make sense. Plus they're PTPs that I want to go > straight into physical router interfaces. The media converter should also > pass through the link status in both directions. I have some cheap-o > Startech media converters that don't do that, even though there's a dip > switch for it, but it doesn't work, and it pisses me off. > > On 1/2/2016 9:45 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: > > It is my APC-POE surge suppressor combined with a 48 to 12 VDC buck > converter. Right now it is a kludge. If it powers up the 844E OK under > max load while being powered from a netonix switch I will combine the two > circuits onto a board and look for an appropriate case for it. > > *From:* Chris Fabien > *Sent:* Saturday, January 02, 2016 7:30 PM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream > > > Can you share more ingo on this chuck? The poe adapter. > On Jan 1, 2016 4:26 PM, "Chuck McCown" wrote: > >> Yep, I am building a POE adapter for the gigacenter too... >> Love their flow software. >> >> *From:* Sean Heskett >> *Sent:* Friday, January 01, 2016 2:24 PM >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >> >> Calix can do all that and a whole lot more sterling >> >> >> >> On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson >> wrote: >> >>> I hear you. >>> >>> My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my customers. >>> >>> Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim. >>> >>> I would like to use MikroTik and manage the routing, but I'm finding >>> that it's still best to get a really nice $100-$300+ single Wireless AC >>> router and place it in the center of the house. >>> >>> What I would really like is a good split solution with routing in the >>> head/basement, and wireless AC in bridge mode in one or two places in the >>> house. >>> >>> But that doesn't seem to exist. >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof >>> Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 10:30 AM >>> To: af@afmug.com >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >>> >>> I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed Mikrotik >>> from us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been very trouble free >>> for us once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters. I think they look at the >>> pile of dis
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
This is more along the lines of noisy FM sites or extended cable length. Plus a 300+ foot cat5e/6, even shielded, is a surge magnet. I do not like the idea of a multi-port device, especially on the tower. If it fails, then multiple radios go down. What I would do is order predetermined lengths of hybrid power+fiber cables for each radio. It's not about saving money on the cable runs. I want the power and ethernet loop for every radio to terminate in the shelter. On 1/3/2016 12:35 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: At a recent show I spent some time asking people about doing this very product... That is, a DC powered fiber to poe injector. Small box at the top, run power and fiber to it, and a short jumper to the radio. I had gotten as far as finding the appropriate silicon to do this. I also asked on this list. The response I got was underwhelming. Either they had no interest in this at all or they didn't see any reason why they wouldn't just put a small netonix in a box at the top and then only run a single fiber. After asking a lot of potential costumers and I don't think getting a single positive feedback I abandoned the idea, although I still think it's an excellent idea. On Jan 2, 2016 9:33 PM, "George Skorup" <mailto:geo...@cbcast.com>> wrote: > > No, I mean a single-port media converter and a PoE injector in a box that goes on the tower next to the radio. A 2-3 foot cat5 out to the radio's POE+data port. > > Fiber + power coming from the shelter. A DC input block. An SFP or even a fixed optical interface would be fine. 24-48VDC powers this box and also sends POE out of the RJ45 port w/ jumpers to select pair polarity like a GIGE-APC-POE. Kinda parasitic power like Forrest's SyncPipe Parasitic's. > > I'm thinking it would also be pretty cool not only for stuff like the AF24, but think about 450 or 450i APs too. If it could also pass sync-over-power, you'd have a very usable product. I know at one point Forrest was talking about doing a SyncInjector module that only put out power+sync, no ethernet. The idea was to feed it into your GIGE-APC-POE cards. > > Most of the -48 licensed stuff already has DC + fiber input, so this wouldn't be for that. I guess it would work for radios like the Exalt ExtendAir G2 which is copper PoE only, and either secondary copper GigE or special order T1/E1, but the main port is 802.3at POE. > > > On 1/2/2016 10:11 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: >> >> No, that is a different project. >> >> So you want to inject POE into an ethernet circuit? Both of my POE surge suppressors will do that. >> >> From: George Skorup >> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2016 9:07 PM >> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >> >> Is that the media converter thing you were talking about? >> >> Can you make something like that in reverse? Say I have a hybrid power+fiber cable up the tower and I want to power up a 20-56VDC radio. The most common thing I'm thinking of here is an AF24, because UBNT decided not to put an SFP and a DC input block on the damn things. For one or two radios, at different heights I might add, throwing something like a Netonix switch up there doesn't make sense. Plus they're PTPs that I want to go straight into physical router interfaces. The media converter should also pass through the link status in both directions. I have some cheap-o Startech media converters that don't do that, even though there's a dip switch for it, but it doesn't work, and it pisses me off. >> >> On 1/2/2016 9:45 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: >>> >>> It is my APC-POE surge suppressor combined with a 48 to 12 VDC buck converter. Right now it is a kludge. If it powers up the 844E OK under max load while being powered from a netonix switch I will combine the two circuits onto a board and look for an appropriate case for it. >>> >>> From: Chris Fabien >>> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2016 7:30 PM >>> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >>> >>> >>> Can you share more ingo on this chuck? The poe adapter. >>> >>> On Jan 1, 2016 4:26 PM, "Chuck McCown" <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Yep, I am building a POE adapter for the gigacenter too... >>>> Love their flow software. >>>> >>>> From: Sean Heskett >>>> Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 2:24 PM >>>> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> >>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >>>> >>>> Calix can do all that and a who
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
No, that doesn't work for me. Nor does a Netonix switch on the tower.
On 1/3/2016 12:39 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
You're basically taking about one of the new Ubiquiti EdgePoint
variants. DC and fiber in to router/switch, multiple POE ports out.
On Jan 2, 2016 10:33 PM, "George Skorup" <mailto:geo...@cbcast.com>> wrote:
No, I mean a single-port media converter and a PoE injector in a
box that goes on the tower next to the radio. A 2-3 foot cat5 out
to the radio's POE+data port.
Fiber + power coming from the shelter. A DC input block. An SFP or
even a fixed optical interface would be fine. 24-48VDC powers this
box and also sends POE out of the RJ45 port w/ jumpers to select
pair polarity like a GIGE-APC-POE. Kinda parasitic power like
Forrest's SyncPipe Parasitic's.
I'm thinking it would also be pretty cool not only for stuff like
the AF24, but think about 450 or 450i APs too. If it could also
pass sync-over-power, you'd have a very usable product. I know at
one point Forrest was talking about doing a SyncInjector module
that only put out power+sync, no ethernet. The idea was to feed it
into your GIGE-APC-POE cards.
Most of the -48 licensed stuff already has DC + fiber input, so
this wouldn't be for that. I guess it would work for radios like
the Exalt ExtendAir G2 which is copper PoE only, and either
secondary copper GigE or special order T1/E1, but the main port is
802.3at POE.
On 1/2/2016 10:11 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
No, that is a different project.
So you want to inject POE into an ethernet circuit? Both of my
POE surge suppressors will do that.
*From:* George Skorup <mailto:geo...@cbcast.com>
*Sent:* Saturday, January 02, 2016 9:07 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Is that the media converter thing you were talking about?
Can you make something like that in reverse? Say I have a hybrid
power+fiber cable up the tower and I want to power up a 20-56VDC
radio. The most common thing I'm thinking of here is an AF24,
because UBNT decided not to put an SFP and a DC input block on
the damn things. For one or two radios, at different heights I
might add, throwing something like a Netonix switch up there
doesn't make sense. Plus they're PTPs that I want to go straight
into physical router interfaces. The media converter should also
pass through the link status in both directions. I have some
cheap-o Startech media converters that don't do that, even though
there's a dip switch for it, but it doesn't work, and it pisses
me off.
On 1/2/2016 9:45 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
It is my APC-POE surge suppressor combined with a 48 to 12 VDC
buck converter. Right now it is a kludge. If it powers up the
844E OK under max load while being powered from a netonix switch
I will combine the two circuits onto a board and look for an
appropriate case for it.
*From:* Chris Fabien <mailto:ch...@lakenetmi.com>
*Sent:* Saturday, January 02, 2016 7:30 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Can you share more ingo on this chuck? The poe adapter.
On Jan 1, 2016 4:26 PM, "Chuck McCown" mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
Yep, I am building a POE adapter for the gigacenter too...
Love their flow software.
*From:* Sean Heskett <mailto:af...@zirkel.us>
*Sent:* Friday, January 01, 2016 2:24 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Calix can do all that and a whole lot more sterling
On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson
mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:
I hear you.
My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my
customers.
Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim.
I would like to use MikroTik and manage the routing, but
I'm finding that it's still best to get a really nice
$100-$300+ single Wireless AC router and place it in the
center of the house.
What I would really like is a good split solution with
routing in the head/basement, and wireless AC in bridge
mode in one or two places in the house.
But that doesn't seem to exist.
-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 10:30 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
I'm seeing a gradual increase in custo
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
*nods* Multiport devices don't do me any good as I drop every radio down to a router port. Ubiquiti's new box is like wanting to get laid, so you go to a strip club. It doesn't really make the situation any better and I'm not sure it was worth the effort either. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com - Original Message - From: "George Skorup" To: af@afmug.com Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 3:03:24 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream This is more along the lines of noisy FM sites or extended cable length. Plus a 300+ foot cat5e/6, even shielded, is a surge magnet. I do not like the idea of a multi-port device, especially on the tower. If it fails, then multiple radios go down. What I would do is order predetermined lengths of hybrid power+fiber cables for each radio. It's not about saving money on the cable runs. I want the power and ethernet loop for every radio to terminate in the shelter. On 1/3/2016 12:35 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: At a recent show I spent some time asking people about doing this very product... That is, a DC powered fiber to poe injector. Small box at the top, run power and fiber to it, and a short jumper to the radio. I had gotten as far as finding the appropriate silicon to do this. I also asked on this list. The response I got was underwhelming. Either they had no interest in this at all or they didn't see any reason why they wouldn't just put a small netonix in a box at the top and then only run a single fiber. After asking a lot of potential costumers and I don't think getting a single positive feedback I abandoned the idea, although I still think it's an excellent idea. On Jan 2, 2016 9:33 PM, "George Skorup" < geo...@cbcast.com > wrote: > > No, I mean a single-port media converter and a PoE injector in a box that > goes on the tower next to the radio. A 2-3 foot cat5 out to the radio's > POE+data port. > > Fiber + power coming from the shelter. A DC input block. An SFP or even a > fixed optical interface would be fine. 24-48VDC powers this box and also > sends POE out of the RJ45 port w/ jumpers to select pair polarity like a > GIGE-APC-POE. Kinda parasitic power like Forrest's SyncPipe Parasitic's. > > I'm thinking it would also be pretty cool not only for stuff like the AF24, > but think about 450 or 450i APs too. If it could also pass sync-over-power, > you'd have a very usable product. I know at one point Forrest was talking > about doing a SyncInjector module that only put out power+sync, no ethernet. > The idea was to feed it into your GIGE-APC-POE cards. > > Most of the -48 licensed stuff already has DC + fiber input, so this wouldn't > be for that. I guess it would work for radios like the Exalt ExtendAir G2 > which is copper PoE only, and either secondary copper GigE or special order > T1/E1, but the main port is 802.3at POE. > > > On 1/2/2016 10:11 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: >> >> No, that is a different project. >> >> So you want to inject POE into an ethernet circuit? Both of my POE surge >> suppressors will do that. >> >> From: George Skorup >> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2016 9:07 PM >> To: af@afmug.com >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >> >> Is that the media converter thing you were talking about? >> >> Can you make something like that in reverse? Say I have a hybrid power+fiber >> cable up the tower and I want to power up a 20-56VDC radio. The most common >> thing I'm thinking of here is an AF24, because UBNT decided not to put an >> SFP and a DC input block on the damn things. For one or two radios, at >> different heights I might add, throwing something like a Netonix switch up >> there doesn't make sense. Plus they're PTPs that I want to go straight into >> physical router interfaces. The media converter should also pass through the >> link status in both directions. I have some cheap-o Startech media >> converters that don't do that, even though there's a dip switch for it, but >> it doesn't work, and it pisses me off. >> >> On 1/2/2016 9:45 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: >>> >>> It is my APC-POE surge suppressor combined with a 48 to 12 VDC buck >>> converter. Right now it is a kludge. If it powers up the 844E OK under max >>> load while being powered from a netonix switch I will combine the two >>> circuits onto a board and look for an appropriate case for it. >>> >>> From: Chris Fabien >>> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 20
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Unless you have a larger site like me that has to deal with 2 systems
that are overlaid on the tower and need to have a switch that allows for
changes to broadcast control.
Most of our sites we do exactly what you are doing by going straight
to a routed port but sometimes cant have cake and eat it too :)
On 1/4/2016 7:09 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
*nods* Multiport devices don't do me any good as I drop every radio
down to a router port. Ubiquiti's new box is like wanting to get laid,
so you go to a strip club. It doesn't really make the situation any
better and I'm not sure it was worth the effort either.
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange
http://www.midwest-ix.com
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
*From: *"George Skorup"
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Monday, January 4, 2016 3:03:24 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
This is more along the lines of noisy FM sites or extended cable
length. Plus a 300+ foot cat5e/6, even shielded, is a surge magnet.
I do not like the idea of a multi-port device, especially on the
tower. If it fails, then multiple radios go down.
What I would do is order predetermined lengths of hybrid power+fiber
cables for each radio. It's not about saving money on the cable runs.
I want the power and ethernet loop for every radio to terminate in the
shelter.
On 1/3/2016 12:35 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
At a recent show I spent some time asking people about doing this
very product...
That is, a DC powered fiber to poe injector. Small box at the
top, run power and fiber to it, and a short jumper to the radio.
I had gotten as far as finding the appropriate silicon to do this.
I also asked on this list.
The response I got was underwhelming. Either they had no interest
in this at all or they didn't see any reason why they wouldn't
just put a small netonix in a box at the top and then only run a
single fiber. After asking a lot of potential costumers and I
don't think getting a single positive feedback I abandoned the
idea, although I still think it's an excellent idea.
On Jan 2, 2016 9:33 PM, "George Skorup" wrote:
>
> No, I mean a single-port media converter and a PoE injector in a
box that goes on the tower next to the radio. A 2-3 foot cat5 out
to the radio's POE+data port.
>
> Fiber + power coming from the shelter. A DC input block. An SFP
or even a fixed optical interface would be fine. 24-48VDC powers
this box and also sends POE out of the RJ45 port w/ jumpers to
select pair polarity like a GIGE-APC-POE. Kinda parasitic power
like Forrest's SyncPipe Parasitic's.
>
> I'm thinking it would also be pretty cool not only for stuff
like the AF24, but think about 450 or 450i APs too. If it could
also pass sync-over-power, you'd have a very usable product. I
know at one point Forrest was talking about doing a SyncInjector
module that only put out power+sync, no ethernet. The idea was to
feed it into your GIGE-APC-POE cards.
>
> Most of the -48 licensed stuff already has DC + fiber input, so
this wouldn't be for that. I guess it would work for radios like
the Exalt ExtendAir G2 which is copper PoE only, and either
secondary copper GigE or special order T1/E1, but the main port is
802.3at POE.
>
>
> On 1/2/2016 10:11 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>> No, that is a different project.
>>
>> So you want to inject POE into an ethernet circuit? Both of my
POE surge suppressors will do that.
>>
>> From: George Skorup
>> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2016 9:07 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
>>
>> Is that the media converter thing you were talking about?
>>
>> Can you make something like that in reverse? Say I have a
hybrid power+fiber cable up the tower and I want to power up a
20-56VDC radio. The most common thing I'm thinking of here is an
AF24, because UBNT decided not to put an SFP and a DC input block
on the damn things. For one or two radios, at different heights I
might add, throwing something like a Netonix switch up there
doesn't make sense. Plus they're PTPs that I want to go stra
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Just hit up your sales manager. We buy them with 5 year warranties at $179. So far best $150 home routers we have used. Craig schmaderer Skywave Wireless, Inc. On Fri, Jan 1, 2016 at 10:03 PM -0800, "Josh Reynolds" mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> wrote: Interesting. I'm curious why our price on the gpon version is $244/ea then. On Jan 1, 2016 10:41 PM, "Sean Heskett" mailto:af...@zirkel.us>> wrote: It's the 844E copper Ethernet version. On Friday, January 1, 2016, Josh Reynolds mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> wrote: Wait, are these the gpon gigacenters, 802.11AC, beamforming? On Jan 1, 2016 9:31 PM, "Sean Heskett" wrote: I don't know where you are getting your pricing for calix Josh but we are paying nowhere near what you are stating here. We buy the gigacenters for $149 and the cloud platform is $150/mo for 500 users. We charge $99 "setup fee" to our clients and $12/mo. for our "managed wifi" service. ROI is ~4months/client. So the first 13 clients pay for the cloud platform for the other 487. Sean On Friday, January 1, 2016, Josh Reynolds wrote: I have a very modest home if you don't count the barn and unfinished basement. Around 1860sqrft. 5GHz barely works through one plaster or sheetrock wall in my home. I'm "desiring" a solution where we can have the customer name and account number in the admin panel, then drill down and manage their gpon router, and the multiple wireless APs on their account. Flow export is okay, but procera does a far better job than calix in that regard (data monitoring for customer troubleshooting). Hopefully this comes to fruition without costing us $7+ /sub/month like calix does. On Jan 1, 2016 5:42 PM, "Ken Hohhof" wrote: Interesting they refer to 2.4 GHz as for “legacy devices”. I suspect that 5 GHz in the large homes of the likely target market will need more than 1 access point to cover the entire house, despite the best MIMO and beamforming technology. Especially the way some customers resist locating the router at the center of the house because “I don’t want to look at wires”. Really, new houses should be designed and wired with probably 10 gigabit Internet in mind, assuming you won’t want to rip the walls open in 10 or 20 years to rewire. If rooms are designed with places for “network boxes” and fiber or Cat6/7 cable back to a hub point, the electronics can be upgraded as technology evolves. From: Chuck McCown Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 4:50 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream https://www.calix.com/systems/gigafamily-overview/GigaCenters.html From: Sterling Jacobson Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 3:36 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream Ok, do you have a link to information then? I’m not familiar with Calix for this particular solution, though I’ve heard of them. Also, I’m lazy :) From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sean Heskett Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 3:25 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream $149 On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson wrote: For $200? From: Af [mailto:javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af-boun...@afmug.com');] On Behalf Of Sean Heskett Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 2:24 PM To: javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com'); Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream Calix can do all that and a whole lot more sterling On Friday, January 1, 2016, Sterling Jacobson wrote: I hear you. My new year's goal is to find a better solution for my customers. Unfortunately, at 100-1000Mbps, the pickings are still slim. I would like to use MikroTik and manage the routing, but I'm finding that it's still best to get a really nice $100-$300+ single Wireless AC router and place it in the center of the house. What I would really like is a good split solution with routing in the head/basement, and wireless AC in bridge mode in one or two places in the house. But that doesn't seem to exist. -----Original Message- From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof Sent: Friday, January 1, 2016 10:30 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream I'm seeing a gradual increase in customers leasing a managed Mikrotik from us, we charge $5/mo for a RB951G-2HnD which has been very trouble free for us once we tweak a couple WiFi parameters. I think they look at the pile of discarded routers in their closet and decide to let someone else deal with it. Most still fall into either the "I can buy one at Walmart for $50" camp or the "I like going to Best Buy and letting the sales guy talk me into the $250 router because I like shopping for expensive toys" camp. And people still look at the humble little white Mikrotik in its plain brown box and think it can't possibly match their big black AC19
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Just for confirmation, this is on the gpon version? Now I'm wondering what other prices you are getting... Can you hit me up off list? On Jan 4, 2016 7:47 AM, "Craig Schmaderer" wrote: > Just hit up your sales manager. We buy them with 5 year warranties at > $179. So far best $150 home routers we have used. > > Craig schmaderer > Skywave Wireless, Inc. > > > > > On Fri, Jan 1, 2016 at 10:03 PM -0800, "Josh Reynolds" < > j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote: > > Interesting. I'm curious why our price on the gpon version is $244/ea then. > On Jan 1, 2016 10:41 PM, "Sean Heskett" wrote: > >> It's the 844E copper Ethernet version. >> >> >> On Friday, January 1, 2016, Josh Reynolds wrote: >> >>> Wait, are these the gpon gigacenters, 802.11AC, beamforming? >>> On Jan 1, 2016 9:31 PM, "Sean Heskett" wrote: >>> >>>> I don't know where you are getting your pricing for calix Josh but we >>>> are paying nowhere near what you are stating here. >>>> >>>> We buy the gigacenters for $149 and the cloud platform is $150/mo for >>>> 500 users. >>>> >>>> We charge $99 "setup fee" to our clients and $12/mo. for our "managed >>>> wifi" service. ROI is ~4months/client. >>>> >>>> So the first 13 clients pay for the cloud platform for the other 487. >>>> >>>> Sean >>>> >>>> >>>> On Friday, January 1, 2016, Josh Reynolds wrote: >>>> >>>>> I have a very modest home if you don't count the barn and unfinished >>>>> basement. Around 1860sqrft. 5GHz barely works through one plaster or >>>>> sheetrock wall in my home. >>>>> >>>>> I'm "desiring" a solution where we can have the customer name and >>>>> account number in the admin panel, then drill down and manage their gpon >>>>> router, and the multiple wireless APs on their account. Flow export is >>>>> okay, but procera does a far better job than calix in that regard (data >>>>> monitoring for customer troubleshooting). >>>>> >>>>> Hopefully this comes to fruition without costing us $7+ /sub/month >>>>> like calix does. >>>>> On Jan 1, 2016 5:42 PM, "Ken Hohhof" wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Interesting they refer to 2.4 GHz as for “legacy devices”. I suspect >>>>>> that 5 GHz in the large homes of the likely target market will need more >>>>>> than 1 access point to cover the entire house, despite the best MIMO and >>>>>> beamforming technology. Especially the way some customers resist >>>>>> locating >>>>>> the router at the center of the house because “I don’t want to look at >>>>>> wires”. >>>>>> >>>>>> Really, new houses should be designed and wired with probably 10 >>>>>> gigabit Internet in mind, assuming you won’t want to rip the walls open >>>>>> in >>>>>> 10 or 20 years to rewire. If rooms are designed with places for “network >>>>>> boxes” and fiber or Cat6/7 cable back to a hub point, the electronics can >>>>>> be upgraded as technology evolves. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:* Chuck McCown >>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 01, 2016 4:50 PM >>>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.calix.com/systems/gigafamily-overview/GigaCenters.html >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:* Sterling Jacobson >>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 01, 2016 3:36 PM >>>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Ok, do you have a link to information then? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I’m not familiar with Calix for this particular solution, though I’ve >>>>>> heard of them. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, I’m lazy J >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett >>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, Janua
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
No, he said it wasn't. 844E copper Ethernet version. Regards, Chuck On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 10:55 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote: > Just for confirmation, this is on the gpon version? Now I'm wondering what > other prices you are getting... > > Can you hit me up off list? > On Jan 4, 2016 7:47 AM, "Craig Schmaderer" > wrote: > >> Just hit up your sales manager. We buy them with 5 year warranties at >> $179. So far best $150 home routers we have used. >> >> Craig schmaderer >> Skywave Wireless, Inc. >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 1, 2016 at 10:03 PM -0800, "Josh Reynolds" < >> j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote: >> >> Interesting. I'm curious why our price on the gpon version is $244/ea >> then. >> On Jan 1, 2016 10:41 PM, "Sean Heskett" wrote: >> >>> It's the 844E copper Ethernet version. >>> >>> >>> On Friday, January 1, 2016, Josh Reynolds wrote: >>> >>>> Wait, are these the gpon gigacenters, 802.11AC, beamforming? >>>> On Jan 1, 2016 9:31 PM, "Sean Heskett" wrote: >>>> >>>>> I don't know where you are getting your pricing for calix Josh but we >>>>> are paying nowhere near what you are stating here. >>>>> >>>>> We buy the gigacenters for $149 and the cloud platform is $150/mo for >>>>> 500 users. >>>>> >>>>> We charge $99 "setup fee" to our clients and $12/mo. for our "managed >>>>> wifi" service. ROI is ~4months/client. >>>>> >>>>> So the first 13 clients pay for the cloud platform for the other 487. >>>>> >>>>> Sean >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Friday, January 1, 2016, Josh Reynolds >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I have a very modest home if you don't count the barn and unfinished >>>>>> basement. Around 1860sqrft. 5GHz barely works through one plaster or >>>>>> sheetrock wall in my home. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm "desiring" a solution where we can have the customer name and >>>>>> account number in the admin panel, then drill down and manage their gpon >>>>>> router, and the multiple wireless APs on their account. Flow export is >>>>>> okay, but procera does a far better job than calix in that regard (data >>>>>> monitoring for customer troubleshooting). >>>>>> >>>>>> Hopefully this comes to fruition without costing us $7+ /sub/month >>>>>> like calix does. >>>>>> On Jan 1, 2016 5:42 PM, "Ken Hohhof" wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Interesting they refer to 2.4 GHz as for “legacy devices”. I >>>>>>> suspect that 5 GHz in the large homes of the likely target market will >>>>>>> need >>>>>>> more than 1 access point to cover the entire house, despite the best >>>>>>> MIMO >>>>>>> and beamforming technology. Especially the way some customers resist >>>>>>> locating the router at the center of the house because “I don’t want to >>>>>>> look at wires”. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Really, new houses should be designed and wired with probably 10 >>>>>>> gigabit Internet in mind, assuming you won’t want to rip the walls open >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> 10 or 20 years to rewire. If rooms are designed with places for >>>>>>> “network >>>>>>> boxes” and fiber or Cat6/7 cable back to a hub point, the electronics >>>>>>> can >>>>>>> be upgraded as technology evolves. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *From:* Chuck McCown >>>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 01, 2016 4:50 PM >>>>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://www.calix.com/systems/gigafamily-overview/GigaCenters.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *From:* Sterling Jacobson >>>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 01, 2016 3:36 PM >>>>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream >>>>>>> >>>>>>
Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream
Whatever it is, it needs to be managed. That is one thing that killed Mikrotik's outdoor "ONT" device for me - it is just passive, no way to do any actual diagnostics. On Sunday, January 3, 2016, Forrest Christian (List Account) < li...@packetflux.com> wrote: > At a recent show I spent some time asking people about doing this very > product... > > That is, a DC powered fiber to poe injector. Small box at the top, run > power and fiber to it, and a short jumper to the radio. I had gotten as > far as finding the appropriate silicon to do this. > > I also asked on this list. > > The response I got was underwhelming. Either they had no interest in this > at all or they didn't see any reason why they wouldn't just put a small > netonix in a box at the top and then only run a single fiber. After asking > a lot of potential costumers and I don't think getting a single positive > feedback I abandoned the idea, although I still think it's an excellent > idea. > > On Jan 2, 2016 9:33 PM, "George Skorup" > wrote: > > > > No, I mean a single-port media converter and a PoE injector in a box > that goes on the tower next to the radio. A 2-3 foot cat5 out to the > radio's POE+data port. > > > > Fiber + power coming from the shelter. A DC input block. An SFP or even > a fixed optical interface would be fine. 24-48VDC powers this box and also > sends POE out of the RJ45 port w/ jumpers to select pair polarity like a > GIGE-APC-POE. Kinda parasitic power like Forrest's SyncPipe Parasitic's. > > > > I'm thinking it would also be pretty cool not only for stuff like the > AF24, but think about 450 or 450i APs too. If it could also pass > sync-over-power, you'd have a very usable product. I know at one point > Forrest was talking about doing a SyncInjector module that only put out > power+sync, no ethernet. The idea was to feed it into your GIGE-APC-POE > cards. > > > > Most of the -48 licensed stuff already has DC + fiber input, so this > wouldn't be for that. I guess it would work for radios like the Exalt > ExtendAir G2 which is copper PoE only, and either secondary copper GigE or > special order T1/E1, but the main port is 802.3at POE. > > > > > > On 1/2/2016 10:11 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: > >> > >> No, that is a different project. > >> > >> So you want to inject POE into an ethernet circuit? Both of my POE > surge suppressors will do that. > >> > >> From: George Skorup > >> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2016 9:07 PM > >> To: af@afmug.com > >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream > >> > >> Is that the media converter thing you were talking about? > >> > >> Can you make something like that in reverse? Say I have a hybrid > power+fiber cable up the tower and I want to power up a 20-56VDC radio. The > most common thing I'm thinking of here is an AF24, because UBNT decided not > to put an SFP and a DC input block on the damn things. For one or two > radios, at different heights I might add, throwing something like a Netonix > switch up there doesn't make sense. Plus they're PTPs that I want to go > straight into physical router interfaces. The media converter should also > pass through the link status in both directions. I have some cheap-o > Startech media converters that don't do that, even though there's a dip > switch for it, but it doesn't work, and it pisses me off. > >> > >> On 1/2/2016 9:45 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: > >>> > >>> It is my APC-POE surge suppressor combined with a 48 to 12 VDC buck > converter. Right now it is a kludge. If it powers up the 844E OK under > max load while being powered from a netonix switch I will combine the two > circuits onto a board and look for an appropriate case for it. > >>> > >>> From: Chris Fabien > >>> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2016 7:30 PM > >>> To: af@afmug.com > >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream > >>> > >>> > >>> Can you share more ingo on this chuck? The poe adapter. > >>> > >>> On Jan 1, 2016 4:26 PM, "Chuck McCown" > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Yep, I am building a POE adapter for the gigacenter too... > >>>> Love their flow software. > >>>> > >>>> From: Sean Heskett > >>>> Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 2:24 PM > >>>> To: af@afmug.com > >>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - bad dream > >>>> > >>>> Calix can do all that and a w
