Re: Bush's Economic Indicator: 2 New Jobs

[Kevin Tarr]

At 10:26 PM 3/5/2004, you wrote:

Just found the title amusing...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A31587-2004Mar4.html

or

http://tinyurl.com/ytu6x

"Prompted by the president, chassis-maker Les DenHerder said the tax cuts 
Bush backed might allow him to hire two or three more people.

"When he says he's going to hire two more, that's really good news," Bush 
said. "A lot of people are feeling confident and optimistic about our 
future so they can say, 'I'm going to hire two more.' They can sit here 
and tell the president in front of all the cameras, 'I'm going to hire two 
more people.' That's confidence!"

--
Doug
Sounds good to me; it's not like he was talking to Bill Ford . There are 
5.7 million small businesses. If half of them hire one person it'd reduce 
the unemployment rate to 2.8%. That's not going to happen of course.

Kevin T. - VRWC
Now I'm going to bed, without supper
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Re: States Bent on Collecting Internet Taxes

[Kevin Tarr]

At 06:01 PM 3/5/2004, you wrote:

What I didn't add: the main reason for moving the ST was to bring
property tax relief.


In other words, shift the tax burden from the well-off (property
owners) to the less-well-off (the poor, who spend a much higher
percentage of their income and thus are much more affected by increases
in sales tax).
 
--

Tom Beck
As a well off property owner in a state where the tax is uneven between 
neighboring houses, to say nothing of towns and counties, I think the 
property tax should be eliminated. Property tax means you are just renting 
the land from the government.

Now saying that, I think a modified property tax should be put into play. 
My top reform would be making government and other exempt groups pay it. I 
will agree it's stupid for a city to pay taxes to itself for the police 
building, something like that; yet if a piece of property is for sale and 
the city can bid higher because it doesn't have to include tax payments in 
the valuation, everyone loses. The tax payers lose money and a developer 
loses a change to make an investment, which could be taxed. But worse is an 
agency owning land in another tax area. Instead of losing money to 
themselves, they are taking it away from the other tax body.

Second is a simplified cheap one payer system based on square footage (of 
the land) and usage. Everyone pays, just to keep it honest. If you and 
neighbor have an acre lot but your house is 100k and his is 500k, so what? 
His does not use more services. He paid taxes on building or buying the 
house itself. If he uses more water or electric, he pays for it. A rental 
property should pay more, but not twice the rate; just enough to mark the 
difference for services.

My neighbor shouldn't be paying 1/4 what I pay, just because I just bought 
mine last year and he was here 30 years. (Not basing this on real world 
example,  except for a few people we are all new homeowners.) And I don't 
want them paying my high rate, I want everyone to pay a lower rate.

Kevin T. - VRWC
Enough for now, time for bed 
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Re: States Bent on Collecting Internet Taxes

[Kevin Tarr]

At 08:22 PM 3/5/2004, you wrote:

Or, of course, to shift the tax burden from investment
to consumption...


Except, the poor have no choice but to consume (we all have to consume
SOMETHING), and nothing to invest (because they've spent all their
little money).
If you have to increase the sales tax, at least exempt necessities such
as food and shelter. But the initial story posted here indicated they
were going to END such an exemption.
 
--

Tom Beck
So first your are for keeping property taxes, now you want to eliminate 
them? Sounds like a Kerry backer.  But maybe you mean rent should 
be deductible? Against state or federal income? Both? Sales tax on a house 
purchase can be claimed against federal income taxes.

Actually what I referred to was tax on clothing which could equal shelter, 
a basic need.

As far as food goes, cooked food is now taxed as well as some liquids. 
(Milk and water are not taxed here). The people who want to lower the tax 
have a study that says on average out of 21 meal times a week only 6 use 
home cooked food, i.e. was not taxed. So if the overall tax is reduced from 
6 to 4% and the store bought food is now taxed, the person saves 20%. (Not 
making any claims about that data, just passing it along. In fact if the 
number was 7 out of 21, there would be no gain, and a loss if they use more 
home food.)

The true measure would be overall household spending. The first site I 
found had NZ data from 1999 and another from Cincinnati. Clothing and food 
accounted for 20 to 28% of household spending. (Minus rent/mortgage; there 
are probably other services that aren't taxed.). The poorer did spend 
higher for them, but the highest was in the low middle range. However, a 
household would have to spend more than 33% on food and clothing for the 
sales tax change to be bad. I will agree right here that the poorest may be 
doing just that, but would also assume that they are getting other assistance.

Hmmm, now I'm confused. The people pushing this plan say there'd be enough 
savings to eliminate property taxes. How can this be if everyone is 
spending less? I don't know, but their other point's are: consumption tax 
catches (almost) everyone (vs income tax), easier enforcement, and easier 
to apply.

Kevin T. - VRWC
I need more data 
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Re: test the nation

[Kevin Tarr]

At 08:17 PM 3/5/2004, you wrote:

Kevin wrote:

should the east coasters provide answers for the rest of the country?
OSL
Sure, why not.

Which answers would those be, BTW? And what's OSL?

Kevin T. - VRWC
My cat's breath smells like cat food!
(or, this is my friday night? sob)
OK, everyone's an sob...

--
Doug
can't always be right 8^)
It means Obligatory Second Line.
OSL
Oh, some fox show, based on a british show. a national IQ test.

Kevin T. - VRWC
Don't feel so smart

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test the nation

[Kevin Tarr]

should the east coasters provide answers for the rest of the country?
OSL
Kevin T. - VRWC
My cat's breath smells like cat food!
(or, this is my friday night? sob)
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Re: States Bent on Collecting Internet Taxes

[Kevin Tarr]

At 10:45 PM 3/4/2004, you wrote:

Kevin Tarr wrote:

> The debate here is to lower the sales tax from 6 to 4%, but tax everything.
> Currently uncooked food and clothes are exempt. The hue and cry of course
> is that this will unfairly target the poor. But most studies show that
> overall the consumer will see lower taxes and with a single tax structure
> retailers could collect taxes easier.
What about dealing with people who are tax-exempt?  That was more of a
pain than dealing with non-taxable items when I was having to figure out
how much sales tax we owed each month when I did that for the company I
worked for.
Julia
What about them? If my register already has a button for non-taxable items, 
it should be able to handle a whole order that is non-taxed; basically a 
wholesale or B to B order.

How is a person non-exempt?

What I didn't add: the main reason for moving the ST was to bring property 
tax relief.

Kevin T. - VRWC
Too early, too tired 
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Re: States Bent on Collecting Internet Taxes

[Kevin Tarr]

At 08:48 PM 3/4/2004, you wrote:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=528&u=/ap/20040304/ap_on_hi_te/internet_sales_tax_7&printer=1


Forty-five states require buyers to pay sales taxes on Internet and
other out-of-state purchases, though a few, including California and
Minnesota, exempt the first few hundred dollars and focus on
high-ticket items.
Meanwhile, a number of major retailers including Wal-Mart, Toys "R" Us
and Target voluntarily collect state taxes. And some states are
working on a "streamlined sales tax project" that would tax online
purchases at the point of sale. Congress would have to enact a law,
however, to make such a system nationwide.
States with sales tax lines on their tax forms include Alabama,
California, Connecticut, Idaho, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine,
Massachusetts, Michigan, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, Ohio,
Rhode Island, South Carolina, Utah, Vermont, Virginia and Wisconsin,
according to the Federation of Tax Administrators.
Georgia, Hawaii and the District of Columbia have separate forms in
their income tax packages.
rob
Forty five states have sales tax, but they do not require sales tax 
collection on mail order or internet sales except where a store has a 
physical location. That's why target and walmart collect taxes on sales to 
most every state.

I'm going to get some information about this.

The debate here is to lower the sales tax from 6 to 4%, but tax everything. 
Currently uncooked food and clothes are exempt. The hue and cry of course 
is that this will unfairly target the poor. But most studies show that 
overall the consumer will see lower taxes and with a single tax structure 
retailers could collect taxes easier.

Kevin T. - VRWC
Insider trading 
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Re: Pledge of Allegiance

[Kevin Tarr]

At 06:46 PM 3/4/2004, you wrote:


- Original Message -
From: "Horn, John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 6:41 AM
Subject: RE: Pledge of Allegiance
> From: Dan Minette [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> In Texas, school children are required to either say the pledge of
> allegiance to Texas or to stand respectfully while others do.
There's a pledge of allegiance to Texas?  The state?  Weird.  Just
when you think you've heard everything.  How does it go?  "I pledge
allegiance to the Dallas Cowboys and the NFL for which they
stand..."
Not too weird really.
Texas was a Nation in the more or less modern sense for a few years.
(As opposed to a kingdom or such)
Its not surprising that Texas would have appendix like attributes as
part of its civic requirements.
But I disagree with forcing kids to pledge to Texas.
It's just unnecessary.
rob
's funny, when I was down there the natives were proud to be from texas, to 
have their own pledge, that texas history was a requirment in grades x- xx. 
The texas flag story is a myth however. (That it's state flag is the only 
one that can be as high as the US flag.) Wish I'd known that 13 years ago.

Kevin T. - VRWC
wasting time 
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RE: Race to the Bottom

[Kevin Tarr]

At 11:36 AM 3/2/2004, you wrote:

I have to side against the Fool in this case. His point was that his job was
threatened by the outsourcing scourge. I work in IT, and I do not see the
threat. But then I am an analyst and not principally a programmer. It is the
heads down programmers, web developers, and phone support that is being
threatened by outsourcing.
It is clear that programming is difficult, but its rather technical work
(like fabrication or assembly), meaning that large scale innovation is no
longer driven by the programmers. It is the architects and analysts that
provide the innovation.
What has to happen is these same programmers need to shift their careers to
analysis. No off-shore worker can provide business requirements or delve
deep into legacy systems to solve business problems. The focus of IT is
business. This fundamental belief is lost with those who are bothered by
outsourcing. The days are gone of the Mainframe programmer/analyst, who did
it all with respect to creating mainframe apps. No one person can write a
large program any more. The technology is too sophisticated, and the
business requirements are too massive for one person. The programming has
become the easy part of the technical solution. It's the analysis of
determining the business behind the bits that's important.
>From a personal level, Freightliner now out sources mainframe legacy
development. This is largely because there are so few mainframe programmers
left who will do legacy sustaining work. The Off-shore outsourcing is now
our only good source of talent who can dedicate careers to these legacy
systems. No American worker would "waste" career time learning COBOL, when
is considered such a career limiting effort.
The few mainframe programmers left, none of which are under the age of 50,
have converted their skills to analysis. They are providing their subject
matter expertise to provide guidance for development. They bring their
knowledge of the BUSINESS to the table. It is not for their COBOL skills.
Its for things like understanding when you copy a parts list from one
database to another, you are legally obliged to bring over the costing
information with that data. Failure to do so would break financial laws.
Nothing in COBOL demands this, which is why these Americans are needed for
the job. No Off-shore developer could provide this.
 I started learning COBOL two years ago. The company bemoans the fact 
that no college offers COBOL programming  Many outside contractors have 
come in an tried to prove that their software could do the job faster and 
all have failed. Maybe the difference is the database interface. Most of 
the work is just getting and storing a record. But the big programs work on 
all the records; sorting and changing and other things.

It's not going away, in fact I know a few places switching back because it 
works better. (Don't ask who, it's internal knowledge.) Our latest version 
is OO, but no one has worked with it yet. We have host interfaced programs 
and web applications all running from COBOL.

How are you defining a large mainframe program? The major project this year 
will be re-writing a system that handles billions of dollars now; designing 
it to handle trillions. There will be many small and large programs; a few 
very large ones; each written by one person.


 I am an analyst who programs, not a
programmer that does analysis. This is the difference. I only hope that the
development community sees this as well. I have made the shift, and any
programmer can use his oversized brain to cope, as well.
 Half of our development staff is Indian. I turn to them to tell me the
technology can do what I want it to do. They are the subject matter experts
to programming. The American developers are OK, but the Indians really get
it, and they really enjoy the work.  They are also the most friendly. The
American developers here are probably the most unsocial people in IT. They
have not make the transcendental shift to socially connect to the business
that supports their lifestyle. It is these people that complain that wages
are diminishing, that there is too much foreign competition, and how
everyone outside of their little world are idiots who don't get technology.
I have news for them. The Ivory Tower they live in is falling.
Nerd From Hell
I am missing something. What would a programmer who doesn't analyze do? I 
know a few programs that are same code/different system but most involve 
thinking.

Maybe that's my difference. I love my job. I'll do anything. I spent 11 
years fixing TVs, being an electrician, doing mechanical maintenance. I 
never want to turn a wrench again. I had a dream after I started, standing 
in a factory being welcomed to my new job. I felt like crying, I wanted to 
call my boss and find out what happened.

That doesn't mean I'm social. I treat this as a job. I don't need to know 
your kids names to work with you.

Kevin T. - VRWC
I had a point. Oh yeah: COBOL RuLZ! Java 

Re: L3 Bitter Mellons, Gin and Tonic, and a an Un- reasonable view.

[Kevin Tarr]

It is perhaps the greatest irony (among many) of the
Civil War that perhaps the single most important
reason for the South's defeat - the genius of Abraham
Lincoln - could _only_ be utilized in the meritocratic
North, where a dirt-poor farm boy had the chance to
rise to the Presidency, something that would have been
inconceivable in Southern society.
=
Gautam Mukunda


I don't want to bring back the discussions of the American generals; just a 
simple question. I'm assuming you are not saying Lincoln was a genius war 
president. I've only read Gods and Generals, otherwise I know little about 
the war. It seemed that the north (generals) made a lot of mistakes before 
finally winning, not pressing advantages or getting into traps. This is all 
hindsight and some of it is still disputed. OTOH It seemed Davis let his 
generals go; was smart enough to know that he didn't know enough. From the 
beginning the South was out manned and under equipped?

The question is, was the south's loss inevitable?

I can't imaging that the southern society was as rigidly stratified. There 
had to be poor Southers that rose in society. David Crockett didn't learn 
to read or write until he was 18. Daniel Boone moved to the south when he 
was 15 from PA and I doubt it was at the behest of a rich landowner. 
Lincoln himself was born in Kentucky, moving when they were eight.

Maybe it's the military that made these people great(er).

Kevin T. - VRWC 
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Re: another riddle?

[Kevin Tarr]

At 09:07 PM 2/27/2004, you wrote:


- Original Message -
From: "David Hobby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 7:47 PM
Subject: Re: another riddle?
> Kevin Tarr wrote:
> >
> > Q: You are sitting behind the wheel in a car keeping a constant speed,
on
> > your left side there is an abyss.  On your right side you have a fire
> > engine and it keeps the same speed as you.  In front of you runs a pig,
> > larger than your car.  A helicopter is following you, at ground level.
Both
> > the helicopter and the pig are keeping the same speed as you.  What
will
> > you need to do to be able to stop?
> >
> > Kevin T. - VRWC
>
> Too easy.
But at least its Freudian. :-)

Dan M.
No, if you are talking about last nights answer in Final Jeopardy.

Kevin T. - VRWC
but the answer will make your head spin 
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another riddle?

[Kevin Tarr]

Q: You are sitting behind the wheel in a car keeping a constant speed, on 
your left side there is an abyss.  On your right side you have a fire 
engine and it keeps the same speed as you.  In front of you runs a pig, 
larger than your car.  A helicopter is following you, at ground level. Both 
the helicopter and the pig are keeping the same speed as you.  What will 
you need to do to be able to stop?

Kevin T. - VRWC
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Re: Fascist Censorship spreading like Cancer thruout Gov't

[Kevin Tarr]

At 04:39 PM 2/27/2004, you wrote:

> Well then, would it be inapropriate for me to ask
> you to please
> provide the definition of "Free" and "Speech" which
> allows "freedom
> of speech" to align with your doctrin?
My definition is freedom from persecution from the
STATE for what one says. Specifically, I would define
it as the freedom to criticize without fear of
repercussions. I'm sure there are other ways you could
define it, but I think definining it as the right to
use obcenities without any regulation is just plain
silly.
> Also, why would a persons age, or rather why should
> a persons age
> have anthing to do with their possible exposure?
It doesn't really, but its normally assumed that
children should be protected from such things. As
adults, its assumed that we have the werewithal and
development that we can cope with such things
effectively. I was using it as an example, since I
think often the decency standards the FCC puts out is
justified with the idea of protecting children from
unacceptable material.
Damon.
I was siding with the other side just two weeks ago. I could see no reason 
why Howard Stern had to be careful what he said or the blowup over a teat 
on TV. But really, the public airwaves are not free. A station gets 
licensed to broadcast a certain frequency and power settings. In radio, if 
some wildcat started broadcasting at the same freq as a licensed station, 
that station would be all over the FCC to shut it down. But that licensed 
station wants to broadcast racy content and someone complains, that 
infringes on their freedom of speech! Nothing hypocritical there.

I can see Fool's point. You start tightening the noose with regulations and 
there may be something that is no big deal now, but prohibited in the 
future because it offends someone. (Frex illegal alien is now a derogatory 
term? Sounds like a valid description of a non-resident that broke a law.) 
But the other side has been just as bad. Penis is a valid word, but in 
certain context it isn't a medical description of the male anatomy. The 
industries have not been policing themselves.

Sure, we are adults. (Some of us). But a child above three can turn on a TV 
or radio. You can put channel blocks on cable signals, but not on a radio 
or over-the-air TV. The gov should not regulate the content of cable only 
broadcasts, other than general guidelines like ESPN shouldn't be showing 
T&A at 8pm, but HBO can since it's content is billed that way.

I hate thinking too much. If I bought a stack porno mags (not that I would 
know where to buy them) and set them outside an elementary school did I 
break any laws? The mags are legal. I'm not littering. I'm not handing them 
to kids directly. Could I be charged for the implied intent?

I though there was a case, a minivan had a DVD player and they were playing 
an adult video. A person in another car complained about it. If I'm playing 
a music CD, heck an Eddie Murphy comedy CD, at loud volume (or clear 
enough) for the people in the next car to hear the swearing, should I be 
charged?

Kevin T. - VRWC
Jerking back and forth (Devon) 
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Re: fun with math

[Kevin Tarr]

At 01:25 PM 2/27/2004, you wrote:

Kevin Tarr wrote:
>
> 1. Grab a calculator. (you won't be able to do this one in your head)
> 2. Key in the first three digits of your phone number (NOT the area code)
> 3. Multiply by 80
> 4. Add 1
> 5. Multiply by 250
> 6. Add the last 4 digits of your phone number
> 7. Add the last 4 digits of your phone number again.
> 8. Subtract 250
> 9. Divide number by 2
= ((80X + 1)(250) + Y + Y - 250)/2
= (2X + 250 + 2Y - 250)/2
= (2X + 2Y)/2
= 1X + Y
> Do you recognize the answer?

Yeah.

Julia


I was going to do that at work, but never got around to it. Remember a year 
ago where I'd go in and twiddle my thumbs for hours on end? Ha-ha, ha-ha 
those days are long gone. It's a good thing, I'm working on an out of bound 
problem right now with Access to track a resource.

I have another project for my group, when they get there priorities 
straight. And we have a massive project on the horizon.

Kevin T. - VRWC
And summer is coming 
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fun with math

[Kevin Tarr]

1. Grab a calculator. (you won't be able to do this one in your head)
2. Key in the first three digits of your phone number (NOT the area code)
3. Multiply by 80
4. Add 1
5. Multiply by 250
6. Add the last 4 digits of your phone number
7. Add the last 4 digits of your phone number again.
8. Subtract 250
9. Divide number by 2
Do you recognize the answer?

Kevin T. - VRWC
Slave to the grind
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She's not racist, she's a Democrat

[Kevin Tarr]

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/state/8040153.htm

MIAMI - U.S. Rep. Corrine Brown verbally attacked a top Bush administration 
official during a briefing on the Haiti crisis Wednesday, calling the 
President's policy on the beleaguered nation "racist" and his 
representatives "a bunch of white men."

Her outburst was directed at Assistant Secretary of State Roger Noriega 
during a closed-door meeting on Capitol Hill. Noriega, a Mexican-American, 
is the State Department's top official for Latin America.

"I think it was an emotional response of her frustration with the 
administration," said David Simon, a spokesman for the Jacksonville 
Democrat. He noted that Brown, who is black, is "very passionate about Haiti."

Brown sat directly across the table from Noriega and yelled into a 
microphone. Her comments sent a hush over the hourlong meeting, which was 
attended by about 30 people, including several members of Congress and Bush 
administration officials.

Noriega later told Brown: "As a Mexican-American, I deeply resent being 
called a racist and branded a white man," according to three participants.

Brown then told him "you all look alike to me," the participants said.

Kevin T. - VRWC
Where's the love? 
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Call for Access experience/help

[Kevin Tarr]

Any users? This program is outside my experience. I can work with Access, 
but it never does exactly what I want. I can't use any other programs, 
unless there is something simple I'm missing.

I'm going to call them objects, hope this will be easy to follow:

Object A has two properties: it's name (or ID) and description. There are 
about 250+.
Object B has ten properties: it's name (or ID) and description, four other 
important and four not important (but need tracked). There are 7100+.

Object C is a reference of one Object A and one Object B. It only has a 
name. There are 7700+. All Object A are used; more than half Object B are 
used. There are a few Cs that have the same A and B, but not many. In this 
table I need to list C, all the A info, and the important B info.

That's where I am now. I have a text document that lists C with its A and 
B. (I also have two documents that have all the A and all the B info.) I 
get Access to build the A table and the B table. When I build the C table, 
it recognizes that there are multiple A and B and tries to build lookup* 
tables for them. If I let that happen it looks nice, but it won't have all 
the A or B info, just the names that came in with C. If I try to do it 
manually (I say manually, but I want Access to do it for me) it won't 
properly link the info. Or I get errors.

*(The lookup tables that Access builds for itself, I can't type manually. 
It has expressions like xyz_ID_xyz, but no help as to what that means and 
no way to duplicate it.)

Do I need to look at relationships differently, or use Queries to track the 
C data I want?

If someone could help just on this, it'd buy you a liquid refreshment if 
you are ever within ten feet of me. It'd be nicer if I could e-mail you 
from work tomorrow.

It gets worse. The next step is object D. D lists the Cs that are being 
used. A D can have many Cs, but never a repeat inside a D. Ds are not 
equal. Some are production, some are test and some are unused but exist. 
(There is other D info, but not important.)

I want to backwards track what Cs, Bs and As are being used. If a C, B, or 
A has just one instance of being in production, I want it flagged that way. 
If not in production but in test, marked so; if not in production or test 
but still listed in a D; and the rest not used at all.

Lastly as a D is added, things are updated, if something unused becomes 
used for example.

Thank you in advance
Kevin T
Going for a bike ride, inside
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Re: Thoughts on gay marriage?

[Kevin Tarr]

At 05:12 PM 2/26/2004, you wrote:

From: "iaamoac" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on gay marriage?
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 13:55:17 -
A great quote from ABC's The Note blog on the Constitutional
Amendment:
"Whatever one thinks about the merits of such an amendment, we are
amazed (OK: not really) at the degree to which the [mainstream press]
casts the President's decision in purely political terms -- rather
than a response to the tens of millions of real Americans who are
fundamentally freaked out by what is going on in (Nancy Pelosi's) San
Francisco and (John Kerry's) Massachusetts."
I definitely could say the same thing about brin-l.
Are you _really_ taking the stance that amending the Constitution is no 
big deal?  Are you saying that having a sitting President endorse a 
constitutional amendment based on a moral, not politically-necessary 
judgement (equivalent to Prohibition, perhaps, as opposed to offering 
women and African-Americans the right to vote) is _nothing_ to be 
concerned with?

IIRC, _Carter_ was the last sitting President to endorse a constitutional 
amendment over two decades ago.  Clinton swore up and down he'd veto any 
amendments that came his way.  (I don't exactly recall if the Flag Burning 
amendment ever made it to his desk.)

The Constitution was not meant to be a static document, but a living, 
adapting one.  But the founders made it very difficult to change for a 
reason.  A President who endorses an amendment is most certainly not 
something to be taken lightly.  If the press wasn't covering it, and the 
controversy being generated by it, I'd be completely and utterly shocked.

Jon
Only offering this as a history lesson, because I wasn't sure.

http://www.usconstitution.net/constam.html

There are essentially two ways spelled out in the Constitution for how it 
can be amended. One has never been used.

The first method is for a bill to pass both halves of the legislature, by a 
two-thirds majority in each. Once the bill has passed both houses, it goes 
on to the states. This is the route taken by all current amendments. 
Because of some long outstanding amendments, such as the 27th, Congress 
will normally put a time limit (typically seven years) for the bill to be 
approved as an amendment (for example, see the 21st  and 22nd).

The second method prescribed is for a Constitutional Convention to be 
called by two-thirds of the legislatures of the States, and for that 
Convention to propose one or more amendments. These amendments are then 
sent to the states to be approved by three-fourths of the legislatures or 
conventions. This route has never been taken, and there is discussion in 
political science circles about just how such a convention would be 
convened, and what kind of changes it would bring about.

Regardless of which of the two proposal routes is taken, the amendment must 
be approved by three-fourths of states. The amendment as passed may specify 
whether the bill must be passed by the state legislatures or by a state 
convention. Amendments are sent to the legislatures of the states by 
default. Only one amendment, the 21st, specified a convention.

It is interesting to note that at no point does the President have a role 
in the formal amendment process (though he would be free to make his 
opinion known). He cannot veto an amendment proposal, nor a ratification.

Me again. Lots of thoughts, no time. Maybe later.

Kevin T. - VRWC 
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Hooray for Zoidberg!

[Kevin Tarr]

I'm not as happy as I was at noon, but feel like sharing. I finally got my 
raise to the next job classification, 18 months after I was recommended. 
The fact that I'm doing the same work as someone two levels above me, one 
now, has been rewarded.

I took a big pay cut for this job, I had to start a second job to make up 
the difference. I still won't be where I was but very close. It has many 
side benefits and I was not promised the bump, but the fact I was testing 
for the higher position augured that I would eventually get it. Still 18 
months is a long time of promises and disappointments.

The only bad part: they normally make it retroactive to the time the 
paperwork was submitted. I don't expect 18 months even though I was never 
formally told I was rejected the first time. But they are only making this 
retroactive for a month and the last round was started at least four months 
ago.

I'm going to throw horseshoes Saturday and Sunday and take Monday off* to 
celebrate. I'm sure something bad will happen to rebalance my life.

Kevin T. - VRWC
*I scheduled taking Monday off months ago
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RE: Call for Access experience/help

[Kevin Tarr]

At 07:57 PM 2/26/2004, you wrote:

> From: Kevin Tarr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Any users? This program is outside my experience. I can work
> with Access,
> but it never does exactly what I want. I can't use any other
> programs,
> unless there is something simple I'm missing.
>
> I'm going to call them objects, hope this will be easy to follow:
Have you looked at Tools, Relationships, click on the line and see,
Are thay one-to-one or one-to-many relationships.
I have had similar issues before and that was the problem
Not much help really... You probably know twice as much as me about it.

Andrew
Anything helps. I cannot make the same relationships that Access makes 
automatically. There are a few things I didn't try yet, but I get 
frustrated when the obvious path isn't working.

Kevin
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Re: Why are Democrats better in bed?

[Kevin Tarr]

At 10:19 PM 2/26/2004, you wrote:

At 08:58 PM 2/26/04, Robert Seeberger wrote:
Why are Democrats better in bed?

You've never heard of getting a good piece of elephant, have
you?


Whassamatter?  Can't imagine what they can do with that trunk?



-- Ronn!  :)
Just watch the cake and peanuts.

Kevin T. - VRWC
Exit only
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RE: ATM trouble

[Kevin Tarr]

At 03:09 PM 2/23/2004, you wrote:

From: Kevin Tarr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

I was getting some cash at a foreign ATM, different from the one I have 
my account with. The machine made noise like it should, but there was no 
POP of the cash door opening. No error messages either. I thought maybe, 
even though I know the account is flush with cash, that it is empty. So I 
switch from checking to savings and try again. Same result. Two paper 
slips pop out saying I have withdrawn the cash!!!

Just got home and called that bank, the one that owns the ATM. They don't 
care since it wasn't their account.

My bank has no after hours help.
A very similar thing happened to me a number of years back: using an ATM
from a different bank than my account, with the ATM debiting my account, but
not putting out the cash.
The ATM had a little service phone attached to it, so I used it to talk to 
some rep
who said they'd count out the ATM's cash to verify things, and I would be 
automatically
credited the money back to my account.

I called the ATM's bank a few days later and verified that they had 
checked the ATM and
I was to be credited.  I waited another week or two, but still no credit 
to my account.  So I
called my bank, and they had heard nothing of this problem or me getting a 
credit.  It took
several more phone calls and probably over a month's total wait time to 
get it all straightened
out - overall, a huge PIA.

Good luck with your case!  Hopefully it'll get resolved more easily than 
mine was!

-bryon
Luckily my bank (credit union) is different. They have already credited me 
the money and put's the onus on the ATM owner to say I did get the cash; 
that I'm lying. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some ratio that popped 
up while she was talking to me: He lost X dollars, his average account 
balance is Y, his deposits are regular; ZZ% confidence he's telling the truth.

One job I interviewed for out of college, the first time, was as a 
repairman for ATM machines. I'm sure one reason I didn't get it; I lived on 
the edge of the service area so half of my calls would have a higher 
response time. The interview was in a little office behind a freestanding 
ATM building, at night.

Kevin T. - VRWC
So it begins 
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Re: ISRAEL OWNS 82 NUKES

[Kevin Tarr]

"This is war." With those three words to President Bush moments after
the September 11 attack, Donald Rumsfeld recast decades of American
policy that had once defined terrorism as a criminal matter, not as a
global enemy to be identified and destroyed.
rob
He must have Banshee's mutant voice, since Bush was in a Florida classroom 
and Rummy was in the Pentagon at the time.

(When I first read this, I thought the text said "he whispered "This is 
War" to Bush".)

Kevin T. - VRWC
Just having fun, no real content 
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ATM trouble

[Kevin Tarr]

I was getting some cash at a foreign ATM, different from the one I have my 
account with. The machine made noise like it should, but there was no POP 
of the cash door opening. No error messages either. I thought maybe, even 
though I know the account is flush with cash, that it is empty. So I switch 
from checking to savings and try again. Same result. Two paper slips pop 
out saying I have withdrawn the cash!!!

Just got home and called that bank, the one that owns the ATM. They don't 
care since it wasn't their account.

My bank has no after hours help.

I'm going to have fun on Monday.

Kevin T. - VRWC
Fool me once
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Re: Federal Marriage Amendment

[Kevin Tarr]

At 12:37 PM 2/20/2004, you wrote:

On Fri, Feb 20, 2004 at 10:59:52AM -0600, Julia Thompson wrote:

> And you don't ovulate the day after you give birth -- it can be a few
> months.
Do you know if it can be speeded up by the drugs they use on some women
who were having troubling getting pregnant, who then seem prone to have
quintuplets? Then both women could have quintuplets every nine months!
Now THAT'S an efficient production line!
Erik Reuter   http://www.erikreuter.net/


If anyone sees Mystic River, there's a line in the movie that says the same 
thing, almost. Brother and I were laughing for minutes afterwards.

Kevin T. - VRWC
Best Movie of the year that has no little people. Other than Kevin Bacon. 
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Re: Attachments, was Re: Democrats secular?

[Kevin Tarr]

You are still sending it 8bit transfer-encoded and getting the list
attatchment.  Not a big deal though.  At least the mystery of the phantom
attatchments is solved.
Michael Harney
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


I did everything I could to turn that off. There is an encoding choice but 
it's for attachments. I knocked the text down to text. Last option that I 
know of short of switching clients, which I won't do.

Kevin
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love/hate

[Kevin Tarr]

Crom! I go looking for a song and wind up on this site:

http://www.lovehate.com/music.htm

(Third album, Spinning Wheel).

That's right. Every album, every song is right there, full length. I want 
to send them $100 for doing it right.

Also found some music from Down and Prong. I'll be deaf in a few years.

Kevin T. - VRWC
headbang aneurysm
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Re: Attachments, was Re: Democrats secular?

[Kevin Tarr]

At 05:58 PM 2/19/2004, you wrote:


From: "Kevin Tarr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> At 03:52 PM 2/19/2004, you wrote:
>
> >Why do some posts still have attachements? I thought the server that
> >relayes them strippes attachements. Kevin's post f.i. has two (see
below).
> >One saying that his outgoing mail is virus free the other was the added
> >iformercial from our friendly neighbourhood server (Which could be
> >scrapped if you ask me. We all know where we are. :o) ) Just out of
interest.
> >
> >Sonja
> >GCU: Topposting because this isn't a response but some of the original
> >mail is needed for reference.
> >
> >Kevin Tarr wrote:
> >
> >>At 04:27 PM 2/17/2004, you wrote:
> >>
>
>
> Is this better? I only noticed yesterday that outgoing e-mail is being
> scanned AND certified. But it's just part of the message, not an
> attachment. I receive some mail on the subservient list that has
> attachments for no other reason than the client they use. So maybe your
> e-mail client is doing it. Not saying it's wrong, just a function.
>
> Kevin T. - VRWC
> Get your dirty paws off me you damn stinking attachment!
The list is tacking on an attatchment that is coming through on your
e-mails.  The message at the bottom of all list posts that has the lists'
web address is 7bit encoded, whereas your email is 8bit encoded.  It's
solution is to change your message to a multipart-mime type.  If you want to
get rid of that, check your mail settings for sending mail, see if you can
switch it to 7bit, that should fix it.
Michael Harney
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Can you hear me now?

out the door
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Re: Attachments, was Re: Democrats secular?

[Kevin Tarr]

At 03:52 PM 2/19/2004, you wrote:

Why do some posts still have attachements? I thought the server that 
relayes them strippes attachements. Kevin's post f.i. has two (see below). 
One saying that his outgoing mail is virus free the other was the added 
iformercial from our friendly neighbourhood server (Which could be 
scrapped if you ask me. We all know where we are. :o) ) Just out of interest.

Sonja
GCU: Topposting because this isn't a response but some of the original 
mail is needed for reference.

Kevin Tarr wrote:

At 04:27 PM 2/17/2004, you wrote:



Is this better? I only noticed yesterday that outgoing e-mail is being 
scanned AND certified. But it's just part of the message, not an 
attachment. I receive some mail on the subservient list that has 
attachments for no other reason than the client they use. So maybe your 
e-mail client is doing it. Not saying it's wrong, just a function.

Kevin T. - VRWC
Get your dirty paws off me you damn stinking attachment!
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Book shopping Re: Darwin's Children

[Kevin Tarr]

At 10:08 PM 2/18/2004, you wrote:


Top posting cause the citing is getting plain ugly, I am an ignant
AOL poster, and it is considered good form at work, and it
really doesn't follow the material below but is a consequence
of it
OK you guys, you forced me to go to the bookstore hoping
Darwins Children is in paperback... but I have to wait til June :-(
Dee
Grammar Aint So Good Either Maru
(who prefers to pack paperbacks on plane trips)
Borders had a buy 3 get one free sale ending monday. Went there with 
another sci-fi fan. He had four books before I had one. Picked up a Ken 
MacLeod. They had first three books (of ?) from his first series, and the 
last book from his second series. Same with a few Babylon five series,  no 
starter books. I was going to also get Gibson's newest, but we couldn't 
find eight books to round out the order.

I finished an older book by the Da Vinci Code author. I wanted to claw my 
eyes out more than once, but it was short enough to get through in a day. I 
will not share the title, no one should read this book.

My official Lal pile is only three books, but I have many more I could add. 
The new Dune books frex. Summer's coming. I just need a book holder on my 
exercise bike.

Kevin T. - VRWC
Off to bed, a job promotion interview tomorrow.

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Re: BRin-L - are we average?

[Kevin Tarr]

At 11:46 AM 2/18/2004, you wrote:


From: Julia Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: BRin-L - are we average? (was RE: FederalMarraige[sic]Amendment)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:25:21 -0600
"Miller, Jeffrey" wrote:

> I really AM curious about people's arrangments.. I don't talk much
> about my life, but many people seem to be (happily) married with kids
> (but then, I tend to think the whole world is like that ^_^)
Monogamous, hetero, married, kids.

Insane.

(I'm told it gets easier once twins hit 12-18 months.)

Julia


Polygamous/Hetero/Single/No kids/Goes by the credo: "If a girl is stupid 
enough to want to go out with me, then she's too stupid for me anyway."

-Travis "that's probably why I'm single" Edmunds
I knew if I waited someone would make a post that I can just ditto. 
Although I'm not polyglamorous.

Otherwise ditto.

Kevin T. - VRWC
Remember son, they're all crazy

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CBS 60 minutes?

[Kevin Tarr]

I was going to ask for help from the left coasters, but may not need it. 
Some network station was touting a report about 401ks and the IRS, but I 
cannot remember who it was. Damn sweeps. I thought it was 60 minutes, but 
the story they had put CBS in my head was the evening news broadcast about 
deer in suburbia. I should have recorded it, but it doesn't break my heart 
to miss it.

So anyone know about the story I really wanted, retirement plans and 
something a woman had uncovered?

Kevin T.
TFTH

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Re: Democrats secular?

[Kevin Tarr]

Do you vote in primaries?

(I vote in Republican primaries because whatever district I'm in tends
to be a lock for the Republicans and I want to have some say in who
represents me.)
Julia
Eight of ten times I vote in the primary. I was going to switch parties, 
just to vote for Dennis K. or Dean or whomever may be less likely to win. 
Then a good primary challenger showed up against Senator Arlen Specter. I 
have to vote for the challenger.

Kevin T. - VRWC

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Re: Democrats secular?

[Kevin Tarr]

At 04:27 PM 2/17/2004, you wrote:

--- Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The only way for Democrats to win in the South is to
> win a good portion of
> these folks over.  This can be done by emphasizing
> the economic issues and
I basically agree with everything you wrote (I think -
I read it fairly quickly).  I think it's more than
just the South, though.  As a rule of thumb, outside
of party registration, the easiest way to find out how
a white person votes is to ask how often they go to
church.  More than once a month, and they
overwhelmingly vote Republican (African-Americans, of
course, are very devout and heavily Democratic).  Less
than once a month and they vote Democratic.  To first
order, that's the dominating factor -
Gautam Mukunda
I break all the rules. Higher than average intelligence; college graduate; 
non-religious, only go to church for weddings and funerals, at least five 
years since I've been in one. I only vote democratic if there is no 
republican on the ticket, or the candidate is very opposite of my views.

Kevin T. - VRWC
Breaking the law

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Re: Federal Marraige Amendment

[Kevin Tarr]

At 02:47 PM 2/16/2004, you wrote:


From: "John D. Giorgis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



> First, the question is: "Should marriage be redefined to include
homosexual
> unions as well as heterosexual unions?"   And indeed, given the current
> judicial environment, the question can be taken one step further "Does our
> civilization have a moral responsibility to so redefine marriages,
> *immediately?*"
>
> In my mind, however, the questions can be further redefined to be: "Should
> our civilization incentivse homosexual unions by redefining marriage to
> include such unions?"   And also, "Does our civilization have a moral
> obligation to immediately incentivise homosexual unions by so redefining
> marriages *immediately.*?"
>
> I come down very firmly against the latter questions, and also fairly
> firmly aginst the former question as well.
The problem is that your questions are wrong.  You ask about *moral*
obligations.  Moral obligations are subjective, and by virtue of that fact,
not the correct standard to apply as there is clearly massive disagreement
on that.  The real question is: Are we *legally* obligated to do those
things?  Under the standard of equal protection under the law, Yes, we are
obligated to do so.
Michael Harney
That's interesting. Why are we *legally* required to discriminate based on 
race or gender then?

Kevin T. - VRWC
What's good for the goose is better than what the gander gets

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education bias

[Kevin Tarr]

I'm hearing a radio commercial; don't know if it's local or national. The 
woman says "I want a house with good schools. Schools that will make my 
sons smart. Like Socrates...but without the toga. Smart enough to get into 
the best schools on the east or west coasts." I can miss the gender bias, 
assuming the woman has no daughters. First questions: can a school make a 
kid smart? I think if she's a good enough parent the school shouldn't 
matter. I'm sure we could come up with a 3 x 3 truth table with 
good/medium/bad parents vs good/medium/bad schools and have percentages to 
see what matters more. Good parents and good schools won't also produce a 
smart kid but it will happen more often than bad parents and bad schools. 
It just sounded like she expected the school to do the work.

And are we missing the great colleges not on the coasts?

Kevin T. - VRWC
Slow news day

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RE: Star Trek Politics

[Kevin Tarr]

At 09:58 AM 2/16/2004, you wrote:


From: "Jim Sharkey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Star Trek Politics
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 09:22:10 -0500 (EST)
A forum I frequent has been having a discussion of how one would
describe the political system of the United Federation of Planets.
It seems to me to combine traits of two systems I generally don't
think of as compatible, that is almost a sort of democratic
communism.  I'd be interested in seeing what other people thought,
especially since I think most of the folks here are more politically
and SF-ally savvy than this other group.
Jim
You know it's funny. A friend of mine and I had a similar discussion not 
long ago. We as well, came to the exact same conclusion, worded exactly 
the same way. It's almost a sort of democratic communism. Democracy is 
implied, whereas communism appears to be frequently implemented. However 
one must look at the broad spectrum of things, so I think that it's more 
accurate to say that it's a marriage of two distinct political systems, as 
democracy really is more than implied.

-Travis
There's some quote I hear on TV cop shows, but can't remember exactly now. 
Something like "three coincidences make a conspiracy"? A forum I read had a 
thread about star trek and politics. It was close but the majority rejected 
the idea of a socialist democracy, what I would call it more than 
democratic communism. I've tried to jump start that discussion here a few 
times. I think star trek has altruism and transparency as two foundations. 
There may be whole groups that live at sustenance levels, just with 
food/clothing/shelter without supporting themselves, but as soon as they 
ask for more they are told to work for it.

Think about Tasha Yar's homeworld. If I recall correctly, an earth colony 
that fell into decades of chaos. The people stopped being altruistic. And 
if the government on Earth was truly communism I doubt the downfall would 
last as long as it did. It seems that the time between Kirk and Picard was 
a golden age. The Romulans went into hiding, the Klingons were uneasy 
allies. Was the Cardasian war really that big? So why did the federation 
turn a blind eye to her planet?

Kevin T. - VRWC
Glad to talk about something important

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Re: N-e-w v-i-r-u-s a-t-t-a-c-k?

[Kevin Tarr]

At 10:57 AM 2/16/2004, you wrote:

My firewall has noted a lot of requests by sites I don't recognize to 
connect during the past few minutes.  Is there something new out there, or 
is it possible someone just now got around to opening his 
M-y-D-o-o-m-infected mail and it is responsible.  Anyone else seeing 
anything like this on this happy Monday morning?



-- Ronn!  :)


Not me. I have not gotten a bad e-mail for 4-5 days now.

Kevin T. - VRWC
Couple days off

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Re: Political Baiting Re: Thoughts on gay marriage?

[Kevin Tarr]

At 05:59 PM 2/15/2004, you wrote:

> For whatever it is worth, it is a common meme among conservatives that
> liberals consider themselves to be smarter than conservatives.
>
>
I don't consider myself necessarily smarter than anyone else. What I would
say is that liberals are much nicer people in their politics than 
conservatives
(not necessarily nicer as people; I know some conservatives who are lovely
people even though their politics make me sick - when I'm not shrieking in 
rage).

Tom Beck
I hate allegories but can't resist using them. In my immediate family three 
are liberal, three are conservative and two I don't know about (damn kids, 
keeping their thoughts to themselves). The shrieking rage typifies the one 
lib to a T, all of the time. I have been fearful of physical violence 
against myself or others; or their heart attack when confronting this 
person about their views. Confronting is not the right word. You could 
mention the weather, a flat tire, a bad hair day and it's blamed on 
repubs/conservs. Anything good is only because of dems/libs fighting and 
overcoming the evils of the other side. Mention one word counter to that 
view and it quickly blows up.

That may read like an exaggeration but it isn't. It does color and distort 
my views. Do I think all libs are that way? Of course not, it'd be a 
stretch to say 1% are as bad.. And I know cons that are as bad but none 
that I meet everyday.

So you think libs are nicer people in their politics? I don't.

Kevin T. - VRWC
That reads bad at the end. I'm smiling through this whole e-mail; only 
saying you opinions are yours to make, mine are different.

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Maybe the truth will set him free

[Kevin Tarr]

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=domesticNews&storyID=4319003

U.S. Engineer Gets 7-Year Sentence in Taliban Case
Mon February 9, 2004 05:43 PM ET
By Teresa Carson

PORTLAND, Ore. (Reuters) - A former software engineer who stunned friends 
and co-workers by admitting he tried to fight U.S. troops in Afghanistan 
drew a seven-year jail sentence in federal court on Monday after 
apologizing for his role.

"I regret my actions," Maher "Mike" Hawash, a 39-year-old former Intel 
Corp. employee, told the courtroom. "I wish to ask forgiveness from my 
family for the pain I have caused them, and to my friends, my friends in 
the community and in the United States."

Kevin T. - VRWC
Will apologies from the list be forthcoming also?

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Bush cost me everything

[Kevin Tarr]

Bush cost me my job, my kids and my houses

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak my mind. I lost my job 
this past year. When Clinton was president I was secure and prosperous, but 
in the last year, we had to close our operations. We simply could not 
compete with foreign labor. This foreign labor worked for low pay under 
very bad conditions.

They worked very long shifts, and many even died on the job.

This competition could hardly be called "fair." I was forced out of the 
place where I had worked for 34 years.

Not a single government program was there to help me.

How can Bush call himself "compassionate?" Far worse, I lost two of my sons 
in Bush's evil war in Iraq. They gave their lives for their country, and 
for what? So that Bush's oil buddies can get rich. My pain of losing my 
sons is indescribable.

While it is trivial next to the loss of my sons, I regret to say that I 
also lost my home. I simply have nothing left. How can Bush call himself a 
Christian when he neglects people like me? I am a senior citizen with 
various medical problems. I'm not in a position where I can begin a new 
career. I was reduced to the point where I had to live in a hole in a 
ground, all because of President Bush.

And when the authorities found me there, did they have any compassion for 
my misfortune and ailments? No, I was arrested. Mr. Bush, I dare you to 
look me in the face and tell me you are a compassionate man! I dare you to 
look me in the face and tell me you are a Christian. If I had any money 
left, I would donate it to the Democrat Party.

If Al Gore had been elected in 2000 I would still have a job, a home, and 
most importantly, my dear sons!

Regards,
Saddam Hussein
PS: When will more uplift novels come out?

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Re: The Fool is nuttier than a fruitcake

[Kevin Tarr]

At 01:38 AM 2/9/2004, The Fool wrote:

 I think Not!


Finally an honest statement! We thought we'd have to have an intervention.

Kevin T. - VRWC
Arthur Murray 12 step

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butterfly effect

[Kevin Tarr]

Since no one else has mentioned it.

I saw it yesterday. Missed the first 5-8 minutes. Maybe I'm starved for 
entertainment but this was a very good movie. Not a teen movie at all. 
Somewhat on the far side of drama with the violence but if you can handle 
that you'll like it.

Kevin T. - VRWC
You gonna listen to me or Andy Rooney? 

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v*r*s question

[Kevin Tarr]

I started getting mail saying something from me was undeliverable. AVG said 
it had the myd**m v*r*s in it. AVG isn't finding the v*r*s anywhere else, 
just the mail coming in. Since them I'm getting messages coming in with the 
v*r*s. But I'm more confused by the returned mail. Is my computer sending 
out mail with me knowing it? Or is my mail being spoofed, it's being sent 
from somewhere else with my address? Or third option, is this a backwards 
way to get a person to open mail, it sends you a bogus e-mail claiming to 
be a delivery failure?

More than a few have come from ASU, I'm assuming Arizona State but I know 
no one there.

Thanks in Advance

Kevin T. - VRWC

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Re: TiVo & privacy

[Kevin Tarr]

At 02:19 AM 2/4/2004, you wrote:
So are there any digital video recorders that don't require being hooked 
up to the phone and a subscription?  Seems like someone would be making a 
killing on that kind of thing.

Oh, and if you've got satelite TV, you're hooked up to the phone too.

Doug
Except, if you have satelite (sic) TV you don't have to be hooked up to the 
phone too.

But I've only had it for four years so what do I know?

Kevin T. - VRWC
TRVTH
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bad day/customer service

[Kevin Tarr]

For reasons I've stated before I had to open a bank account with a bank 
that's not in my area. I was calling them today, not to complain, but to 
find their nearest ATM that accept's deposits because it took three days to 
get a cash deposit cleared two weeks ago. (Also the location for the 
closest withdraw only ATM is mapped in the middle of a highway 
interchange.) I get this wonderful news: The bank has dropped out of the 
ATM network for deposits. You can withdraw from any ATM anywhere in the 
world, but can only make deposits at their ATMs. Then I started 
complaining. The decision was just made last Wed. No letters have been sent 
stating this. No reasons, she knew nothing; just what was on her screen. 
The four nearest branches to me, 25+ miles, do not have ATMs. I just don't 
understand why a bank would take a step backwards like this.

Even better, the money program I use just stopped after I spent a few hours 
inputting info. I'm going to let it sit overnight, hopefully it will become 
unstuck. Or I hope it has automatic saves but not holding breath on that one.

Kevin T. - VRWC
Day off gone bad
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Re: SCOUTED: Houston

[Kevin Tarr]

> Robert Seeberger wrote:

Having seen the preparations being made here for The Super Bowl
(something like a 10 day event with parties and festivals and such),
and having seen the city prepare for other events of slightly lesser
import, it is my belief that the IOC was foolish and short sighted to
give the Summer Olympics to NYC.
Houston has the tallest building west of the Mississippi, and an
extensive underground tunnel system downtown (kind of like a mall that
goes on forever) connecting almost the entire business district.
Still...Houston is remarkably decentralized. There are several
clusters of buildings that visitors mistake for "The Downtown Area"
because the clusters are so large and the buildings so high.
rob
They don't pick the final city for the 2012 games until July 15, 2005. Do 
you mean Houston was one of the north American finalists to host the 2012 
games? Ah, it was one of the four finalists along with SF and Wash. Well, 
someone has to win. I'd go with some regional un-bias and say it should 
have been SF, since Atlanta is in the east, but in the south also. Wonder 
if I can rent my house? It's only 3 hours from NY. I should have it 
remodeled by then.

Havana is one of the world-wide finalists. That's interesting. Others are 
Istanbul (TUR), Leipzig (GER), London (GBR), Madrid (ESP), Moscow (RUS), 
Paris (FRA), and Rio de Janeiro (BRA).

I liked Houston. I sometimes wish I'd have stayed down there, but there was 
no future in the position I had at the time. It was a little too flat but 
I'd get used to that. I was disturbed by whole communities that were empty 
from the oil bust. This was near Hobby and going towards Galevston.

Kevin T. - VRWC
I like my snow and mountains now.
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Re: No teeth in this tiger

[Kevin Tarr]

At 05:49 PM 1/27/2004, you wrote:
Kevin Tarr wrote:

> *It's in a section's food cubicle. The books are all mysteries and
> thrillers. I asked why no sci-fi? The section leader nearly jumped down my
> throat. This Clancy book was the first I've ever borrowed, working there
> two years now. When I returned it I saw a Harry Turtledove which I grabbed
> and a Dilbert book, next.
>
> I could leave some sci-fi to see what happens, but I hate the thought of
> losing something.
Dan *bought* some SF to stick in the work library.

Even had me buy one book that I got *signed* -- to stick in the work
library.
Of course, they were paperbacks, and on some of them, we got used copies
to donate, so it didn't cost that much in total.
Any decent used bookstores in your area where you could buy something
for such an experiment?
Julia


Don't know where I lost this thread. Something weird with the mail, I was 
getting those repeated messages also.

The work library is small and full. Maybe somewhere else is sci-fi, but at 
the moment I don't want to add to it. Again, my first few weeks working 
there I saw it and said, where's the sci-fi and the lady in charge of the 
section (of cubicles) snarled. But she's otherwise nice to me, gets Chinese 
every Friday.

As I said, I'm not a work person. I love my job, but don't like workplace 
interactions. One boss, the one who criticizes everything I do, was visibly 
upset that I didn't know who another person was, their name. I've talked to 
him three times, if that. He doesn't wear a name tag saying "I'm Al!". In 
fact, a person I speak with said knowing names is given too much weight in 
society. A chair or flower should be known for a group of objects, but no 
one gets upset if you don't know what a ladderback or iris is. But interact 
with a hundred or more people, you have to know every name?

Kevin T. - VRWC
Suppose I would have learned that skill in a frat ;-)
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Re: Frat boys? (was Re: Br!n: LotR and Conservatives)

[Kevin Tarr]

At 01:01 PM 1/31/2004, you wrote:

> At least I'm not alone!  Where'd you go to school,
> Damon?
Penn State

Damon


Cool! Is it possible we are the first two list people to have attended the 
same college? (But I went to PS Harrisburg). Maybe not, I think the people 
who started the list were from Cornell, but as students or employees?

Ever go to Snow Shoe, Lock Haven, or Renovo? If yes, I apologize.

I was living in Bellefonte for two semesters working while two friends were 
going to school. I don't know how they graduated; way too many nights of 25 
cent pitchers. At least I could go to work the next day and sit in the dark 
with sunglasses on. One of those friends were in a frat, and I dated a girl 
in a SO. Seemed pointless to me.

Kevin T. - VRWC
I don't belong to any groups that want me as a member
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Re: SCOUTED: Houston

[Kevin Tarr]

At 09:19 PM 1/31/2004, you wrote:
<>


Can we start calling you The Ronn! like the other list member who posits 
links with no info about why we might want to read them?
Course, I don't read The Idiot's posts anyway

Kevin T.- VRWC
Wondering if it's about p*rn st*r
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No teeth in this tiger

[Kevin Tarr]

Picked up Tom Clancy's TotT last week from the workplace library*. Started 
okay, but mostly it sucked. The ending was very bad. It needed another five 
chapters to really finish the story but I'm sure the next book will cover that.

If I had friends who repeated the same things that much during 
conversations (Git-R-Done) I'd punch them.

I saw one blatant error, where a city name one one page was different on 
another. Five word usage errors, they passed the spellcheck but used the 
wrong word. Ex: list instead of lust. (Now that I think about it, it may 
have been intentional but there were others that were wrong.) And a few 
diversions that just could not be true. Not plot points, but chapter filler 
situations that the author obviously knew nothing about.

--

Near the end of Chasm City there were two word errors that stood out. I 
know I questioned one in Kiln People and the list thought the words were 
okay. Just wondering how many errors get into finished books.

Kevin T. - VRWC
Time for bed, more snow tomorrow and 4x4 isn't working
*It's in a section's food cubicle. The books are all mysteries and 
thrillers. I asked why no sci-fi? The section leader nearly jumped down my 
throat. This Clancy book was the first I've ever borrowed, working there 
two years now. When I returned it I saw a Harry Turtledove which I grabbed 
and a Dilbert book, next.

I could leave some sci-fi to see what happens, but I hate the thought of 
losing something.

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Toastmasters?

[Kevin Tarr]

I want to expand on my work email question. This is a poor forum for asking 
for advice, but asking for experience(s).

I don't think I'm shy, I don't think I ever was. Even the terms I use will 
show a bias. I'm not a chatterbox and those that are upset me. I think they 
are idiots, filling the silence with meaningless words instead of engaging 
in real conversation. Other problems hamper me but they happen more in 
social situations. I'm not one to say hi in a hallway or other random 
encounters.

I'm awkward around women, more so if they are attractive. Around 
undesirable women I can get disdainful if I consider the bad quality to be 
a personal flaw, like being overweight* or even a bad hair style. *(pot 
meet kettle). I improve as I get used to the woman.

I think my face is a wide billboard broadcasting every thought. What's 
funny is the times I've been called on it, someone reacting to my facial 
expression, they've usually been wrong. But there are the millions of other 
times that the person doesn't say something yet may be thinking it, 
reacting to me.

These are workplace problems. I can almost blame this on my work history 
including seven years in factories that were earplug mandatory. How can you 
chit-chat when you have to yell? And being in maintenance with all male crews.

But I also like the way I think. I hate people who stand around for an hour 
talking about anything but work. Even guys talking about sports. Outside of 
work, I'll be glad to talk about anything, but I come to work to work. I 
don't think I'm a better worker, I do waste time in my own way, but a group 
talk can affect people around the group. At least with my new location that 
doesn't happen as much.

There are two places I do not worry about. In general meetings I have no 
trouble interacting. I do hang back and let others talk, but if I think a 
point is being missed or if the meeting leader is letting the topic drift 
I'll speak up. (Still, I hate going to a meeting and get a person who wants 
to talk about their drive into work or some other distraction and the 
leader just lets them run, where I know I can't say anything.) The other, I 
can talk to a group with no problem. If I didn't practice the speech I can 
get rushed but otherwise I have no problems.

Since my job isn't in a factory anymore, I need to relearn (or learn) how 
to be a people person. Not rise to the level of a glad-handler, just give a 
better first impression and with normal interactions. I was hoping after 
two years I'd get better, but today was no picnic. I don't want to damage 
my opportunities of advancement.

Anyone have similar problems/doubts/feelings? Any ideas on fixes? Intense 
psychotherapy? Join a cult?

Kevin T. - VRWC
Other than the one I already belong to
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The Captain has passed

[Kevin Tarr]

 Montpelier, Vt. -- Long Island native Bob Keeshan, who gently entertained 
and educated generations of children as television's walrus-mustachioed 
Captain Kangaroo, died Friday at 76.

http://www.nynewsday.com/ny-kangaroo0123,0,1776938.story?coll=nyc-topheadlines-left

Kevin T.
drop ping-pong balls at the funeral
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Re: did I break it? [snarky response]

[Kevin Tarr]

At 02:52 PM 1/23/2004, you wrote:
No, you didn't break it, but we're blaming the problem with the Spirit
rover on you.  :P
Julia

couldn't resist, and needing to let off some steam due to some
frustration with a certain website that will remain nameless until such
time as I determine I'm screwed on something
(Very bad thought at the bottom, but couldn't resist either)*

What happened was: I sent the one e-mail, then the second. The second 
didn't show up, didn't show up...you get the idea. But nothing was showing 
up, this list and the other one have been very quiet. I do not know how I 
sent one e-mail but the other got the wrong destination.

As for the e-mail at work, the user is an internal user. You could almost 
call them a customer, we make the interface that they use for the system. A 
person had left and I'm in charge of their interface. (So now instead of 
doing level 2 work while being paid at level 1, I'm doing level 3 work 
while being paid at level 1. But I love my job, and I have a window seat 
now.) The boss I'm talking about is my boss's boss, but the way the 
internal structure works it's not that big a deal. This boss is just 
helping with my transition from straight programmer to manager, but there 
has yet to be a situation that we agree on. He/she is a great person, but I 
hate asking work questions; the answer is never straight forward. They 
wanted CC on all communication; the first e-mail I send I get pinged.

Kevin T. - VRWC
*On second thought, I'll not say it. Not bad, if I had said it face to face 
I would have gotten either a slap or a laugh; but not something I'd say at work.

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did I break it?

[Kevin Tarr]

I sent this e-mail last night, with the subject work e-mail

Not about list e-mail, but general work e-mail. I got chastised by a boss 
because I was contacting a user using e-mail instead of calling directly. 
The text of the e-mail was about, drumroll, setting up a face to face 
meeting. I really felt like telling the boss to take a hike. His way 
mattered 20 years ago when you had to use a phone, but 70% of the time 
e-mail is appropriate.

How do others feel? I know not all situations warrant it but if you have 
established that the receiver regularly checks e-mail and will respond, 
isn't e-mail okay?

Kevin T. - VRWC
Time for an indoor bike ride
Ah, I sent it to the b-owner? Sorry about that.

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Re: Bigger than Watergate - Republicans are Proven Thieves and Liars

[Kevin Tarr]

At 10:28 AM 1/22/2004, you wrote:
<>
Infiltration of files seen as extensive Senate panel's GOP staff pried on
Democrats
By Charlie Savage, Globe Staff, 1/22/2004
WASHINGTON -- Republican staff members of the US Senate Judiciary
Commitee infiltrated opposition computer files for a year, monitoring
secret strategy memos and periodically passing on copies to the media,
Senate officials told The Globe.
>From the spring of 2002 until at least April 2003, members of the GOP
committee staff exploited a computer glitch that allowed them to access
restricted Democratic communications without a password. Trolling through
hundreds of memos, they were able to read talking points and accounts of
private meetings discussing which judicial nominees Democrats would fight
-- and with what tactics.
Let's hope this investigation doesn't take as long as finding the Clinton's 
FBI or Hillary's Rose law firm files!

Obligatory second line.

Kevin T. - VRWC
TRVTH
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Re: 2004 Elections (and Kerry)

[Kevin Tarr]

At 11:17 PM 1/20/2004, you wrote:
At 09:00 PM 1/20/2004 -0600 Julia Thompson wrote:
>  It's not that
>far-fetched to have run into someone in eastern Massachusetts who'd have
>run into some particular Congressman elected from that area sometime in
>the past 20 years.  Especially if you were seeking out people who had
>been active in political campaigns.
I read Gautam's statement as implying that it was not extraordinary for
ordinary Massachusettans to have run into one of their Senators.
JDG - Who has never so much as met his Congressional Representatie.
Have to agree with Julia here. I've met at least ten without even trying. 
Four of them I'm on a first name basis with. (Two I ride bikes with, 
another who married my cousin's widow, and the fourth is in my 
social/service club.) Two houses ago my rep's office was in the same plaza 
as my comic dealer. I walk past Santorum's office every day now but have 
not seen him yet.

Comes from living in a non-stress city:

http://www.post-gazette.com/localnews/20040113stress0113p1.asp

Kevin T. - VRWC
Back to work after four days off
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Re: Trent Lott on recess appointments

[Kevin Tarr]

At 09:55 PM 1/20/2004, you wrote:
<
>
Trent Lott on recess appointments:

THEN

"Any appointment of a federal judge during a recess should be opposed."

- Sen. Trent Lott (R-MS) opposing the appointment of an African American
judge, December 2000
NOW

"Judge Pickering's record deems this recess appointment fully
appropriate."
- Sen. Trent Lott (R-MS), 1/17/04
So Clinton did a recess appointment one month before the new congress was 
sworn in, after the elections, a month before he leaves office. And that's 
a good thing?

Oh, I see the source now. Nevermind.

Kevin T. - VRWC

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Re: SotU 2004 drinking game

[Kevin Tarr]

At 09:13 PM 1/19/2004, you wrote:
Kevin Tarr wrote:
>
> At 08:37 PM 1/19/2004, you wrote:
> >Kevin Tarr wrote:
> > >
> > > http://www.drinkinggame.us/
> > >
> >
> >Their countdown thingie is an hour off, BTW.
> >
> > Julia
>
> Not where the SotU is coming from. But I'm sure you knew that.
Yeah.  I e-mailed one of the guys responsible, and it just checks your
computer's time and assumes you're in the Eastern time zone.  :P
Julia


Right. I'm standing in the kitchen and suddenly I think, "I'm an idiot." I 
made the mistake thinking the website was correct. Not that you were wrong, 
but something else was.

Kevin T.
I'm sorry (Motorhead's version)
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Re: SotU 2004 drinking game

[Kevin Tarr]

At 08:37 PM 1/19/2004, you wrote:
Kevin Tarr wrote:
>
> http://www.drinkinggame.us/
>
Their countdown thingie is an hour off, BTW.

Julia


Not where the SotU is coming from. But I'm sure you knew that.

Kevin T. - VRWC
When does cycling season start?
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SotU 2004 drinking game

[Kevin Tarr]

http://www.drinkinggame.us/

I think they left one off. I'm not saying this to partisan but what about a 
drink where they show a democrat not clapping; two if you can name them.

Kevin T. - VRWC
I'll start tonight
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Re: Newest spam tactics

[Kevin Tarr]

At 11:45 AM 1/17/2004, you wrote:

The spammers are getting more and more devious. In the past week a
handful of messages have made it through my filters and Mailwasher. The
first tactic was to put some text at the beginning of an HTML message
indicating that it was a message concerning an eBay auction. Of course,
once opened, the message was an HTML porn message. The plain text is the
only thing that showed up in Mailwasher.
The second tactic was return email addresses and subject lines that
indicated that it was a piece of returned email that was undeliverable.
They totally got me on this one. All 10 messages made it through.
Gary

Frustrated in Delaware
Did you send this at 11:45 or later? I just got it in my inbox a few 
minutes ago. It sorted it time/date wise but I know I just got it.

My h mail e-mail has been going up again. The newest ones have said "click 
here to remove yourself" and similar.

Kevin T. - VRWC
Not as frustrated in PA
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RE: Announcing brin-l-books

[Kevin Tarr]

At 12:36 PM 1/17/2004, you wrote:
Kevin Tarr wrote:

> But there are times when the list is tossing off lists like
> water off a wet dog. Hard to keep track and most of them are not in
> the CDR.
I kept track of a few of the more obscure ones, and then I went out and
hunted them down via Bookfinder.com.
eg: the Master Li and Number 10 Ox books by Barry Hughart, and the
Continuing Time books by Daniel Keys Moran.
Perhaps I should go through and find the ones that the List recommended
and add them to the CDR, though reading them first might help.
> I'm just finishing Chasm City. I don't like it much.

Any particular reason why? Have you read (and liked) any of Alastair
Reynolds other books?
Lal
GSV The Fifth Ship
Slight spoilers



.



.



.



I don't like the hero much. He seems too super human. Reads like a Bond 
movie. The ideas are interesting but nothing is grabbing me.

I bought R Space at the same time and gave to B-in-law for Christmas 2002, 
expecting him to read it and I could read it before CC but he has not 
started it. I got him an omelet pan this year.

As you said, it would not be nice to list the books if you have not read 
them. I've saved many e-mails with the books mentioned but it's quite a list.

Kevin T. - VRWC
time for work.
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RE: Announcing brin-l-books

[Kevin Tarr]

At 11:42 AM 1/17/2004, you wrote:
Kevin Tarr wrote:

> That doesn't seems to be the right person. But I've been begging for
> something like this on our subservient list, they throw
> around titles and likes and dislikes so fast it's hard to keep up.
If you're referring to the Culture List, did you ever look at the CDR?
There were a large number of recommended books on there, with a brief
synopsis/review on about half.
Lal, who shouldn't really buy any new books for about four years or so
Yes I know about it. I got some books from those recommendations last year. 
But there are times when the list is tossing off lists like water off a wet 
dog. Hard to keep track and most of them are not in the CDR.

I'm just finishing Chasm City. I don't like it much.

Kevin T. - VRWC

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streaming

[Kevin Tarr]

Let's see if this e-mail makes it through the censors.

I have DSL service. I have a two port router but only one computer hooked 
up. I don't know the upload/download speeds, and don't care just yet. I'm 
just wondering about streaming music out from this computer. It would only 
be for personal use, just me connecting to this computer from somewhere else.

I did a few net searches but most of them were about blocking streaming, 
not providing it. Also most of the info was about Linux machines.

So any info about streaming, anyplace I can look? Would I need a Linux box 
instead/also?

Kevin T. - VRWC

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Re: Tg Territories

[Kevin Tarr]

Ok, the _technical_ names of the stars that make up the Alpha Centauri
system are Alpha Centauri A [the Sun-like star], Alpha Centauri B
[almost Sun-like, but smaller; it's still in the spectral class that usually
is considered fit to have Earth-like planets] and Alpha Centauri C aka
Proxima Centauri [a red dwarf, so far away from A and B that we don't
know if it's gravitationally bound to them or not. I would guess that it's
_not_ bound to them]
The A+B pair is sufficiently far away not to influence the climate, but
bright enough to lighten the night sky in such a way that the observation
of stars would be difficult [imagine something brighter than the Moon
but pointwise like Venus]
Alberto Monteiro the creativity challenged
How far apart are A and B? Distance of Pluto, more, less?

Kevin T. - VRWC
Planning a trip
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Renting was Re: Martian Emotion

[Kevin Tarr]

And I think that, given the government's record on social issues (the 
"housing projects" of the Sixties, frex, or the education issues I 
mentioned), putting the government in charge of more of them would be 
really bad public policy.  Most people feel better and do better when they 
are in control of their destiny, and most people are poor stewards of 
someone else's money, be they politicians spending tax money to get 
re-elected or people living in government-provided housing.  Heck, people 
who rent (from private property owners) rather than own their homes are 
not exactly noted for keeping the property up.  The attitude of far too 
many people seems to be "the heck with it:  it's someone else's problem" 
rather than "it's someone else's property:  I'm just renting it 
temporarily, so I should take care of it, as I would like someone who 
borrowed something of mine to take care of it."

-- Ronn!  :)
My second job the owner has not replaced his hot water heater because he 
rents the building and feels the property owner should do it. We don't 
handle foodstuffs, but if you were in a place and you knew the employees 
bathroom had no hot water? I agree with my bosses point, but if the 
contract does not say one way or another I'd either replace the heater and 
subtract it from my rent, or just swallow the cost, it's not like it's 
thousands of dollars. In fact, no other equipment is paid for by the 
building owner, maybe he shouldn't pay for this either.

I've rented and had people rent from me. I swear to Crom that I will never 
do either, unless I'm owning a beach house or mountain chalet.

Kevin T. - VRWC
Cold, so very cold
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Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry

[Kevin Tarr]

At 09:19 PM 1/14/2004, you wrote:

- Original Message -
From: "John D. Giorgis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 7:24 PM
Subject: Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
> At 03:31 PM 1/14/2004 -0600 Dan Minette wrote:
> >> Its certainly not as simple as saying that the South is racist and the
> >> North is not.  There is a lot of racism in the North.  But, the
Southern
> >> strategy of the Republican party does include ensuring that the racist
> >> Southern vote in the South is squarely in their camp.
> >
> >The redundancy here was not intended.  Also, I think that there is an
> >attempt to get the racist Northern vote with the "Southern strategy."
>
> Please tell me that you meant the past tense in this.   "Was" not "is."
There are still clear signs that the Republican party knows that keeping
the racist vote is critical.  Thus, you get senators adressing racist
groups and visiting racist institutions full of praise.  If you want to
argue that the Democrats are not harsh enough on irresponsible black
leaders, I won't argue.  But, I'm not giving the Republicans a free pass on
courting racists.
I'm not saying that Bush is a racist.  He probably isn't.  I'd put money on
a straight up bet against him being an old fashioned Texas racist.  But,
Trent saying that things would have been better if Strom had won instead of
Harry wasn't an accident.  The only problem is that he got caught with the
wrong people hearing it.
Dan M.
He probably isn't racist. How nice of you to say that.

And the next time you are at a function honoring someone 40 years older 
than you, make sure his past is clean so your general remark can't be 
turned into a proof that you are a racist or bigot or homophobe.

Kevin T. - VRWC
Time for bed, snow day tomorrow?
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Re: Announcing brin-l-books

[Kevin Tarr]

At 05:40 PM 1/14/2004, you wrote:
Following several months of development by me and lots of testing by the 
members of the Wednesday chat brin-l-books is probably ready for you all 
to try :)

http://books.scattersoft.com

An interactive web site where you can view and vote on books. The initial 
lists are compiled from lists of award winning books, books mentioned on 
list, and recommendations from the testers on the Wednesday chat.

The site allows searching by author and category, and has a 'new books' 
feature for returning visitors that shows titles added since their last visit.

To initially register on the site you need to provide a working email 
address which is used to email you a URL for activation. To use the site 
you need to have cookies enabled on your browser (but you can clear them 
when you leave).

You can vote, or rate, the books from Useless to Essential and change (or 
remove entirely) your votes as often as you like. The number of voters and 
the average rating is given for each book so you can see which books are 
most popular among brin-l-ers.

Each book also has a purchase link that takes you directly to the 
Amazon.com page for that book. This is an affiliate link which means that 
I get a small commission if anyone buys through that link.

--
William T Goodall
Didn't someone send out a list of 4000 books a few years ago? John Horn? 
That doesn't seems to be the right person. But I've ben begging for 
something like this on our subservient list, they throw around titles and 
likes and dislikes so fast it's hard to keep up. So thank you William, I'll 
buy you a pint if I'm ever allowed back in England.

Kevin T. - VRWC
Made a bobby cry 
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Re: how CAPPS II works

[Kevin Tarr]

At 04:19 PM 1/14/2004, you wrote:
This is the scariest thing ever.

Get ready to be extorted!

You want to fly, you have to pay $250 for your Cendant security
records so that you can find out why your rating comes up yellow or
red. Then once you find out you will have to pay thousands and
thousands of dollars to clear the false record. Then once you have
the yearly cross check from another data provider will plop that
false record right back in your file. -> even though the false record
was oringinaly introduced by the company you cleared it from <-
You think not? Have you ever had erronious data on your credit report?
Yes I did. It took one phone call to clear it. I still have nightmares over 
that burden.

Kevin T. - VRWC
Through being cool 

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Re: EPA Works Out Secret Deal with Factory Farms

[Kevin Tarr]

At 10:00 PM 1/13/2004, you wrote:

> kneem posted
> EPA Works Out Secret Deal with Factory Farms
>
> Perhaps taking its cue from the Cheney Energy Task Force, the EPA has
> been holding secret meetings with the agribusiness industry this year,
> putting together a "sweetheart deal" with lobbyists to exempt factory
> farms from Clean Air Act and Superfund regulations
I don't know much about secret meetings, etc, but there has been a
moratorium on hog farming in NC for several years due to some
of this type of stuff.  (Lots of hogs 'round here)  There has been
concerns about hog lagoons, etc.  I know that NC State has been
doing joint research with the hog farms to try and clean things up.
There has been a 4-5 year goal on the project.
  I am not sure if it is related, but I heard there
has been some promising research that Ash (IIRC) trees are a
natural filter (for lack of a better word) when planted in proximity to
lagoons, processing the nitrates in groves of trees.  With all the
different things they were trying I think there could be lots of
options outside of just plain old "deal making".
Dee
Wasn't the problem in NC highlighted when there were floods down there a 
few years ago? Lots of the lagoons were overflowed, some washed away 
completely, spreading waste down stream. I know a few cases locally where 
the feds gave plans, money and contracted the jobs to build holding pools 
and they failed within years from poor design and construction.

Kevin T. - VRWC
Everyone wants their babe and eat him too
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Re: Danger of US military overextension

[Kevin Tarr]

At 06:30 AM 1/13/2004, you wrote:
Not sure who or where this guy is, but the "Army" War College is NOT as
Maxwell Air Force Base, Alabama.  The "Air" War College is.
George A
I was going to point that out myself, but was distracted by something else. 
Someone was cutting down the air force saying it should be re absorbed back 
into the army and navy.

I'm about 30 miles from the AWC, a few of our bike rides go around it.

Kevin T. - VRWC
So many movies to choose from tonight
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Health was Re: Extraordinary Rendition

[Kevin Tarr]

At 06:34 PM 1/11/2004, you wrote:
Kevin wrote:

Responding to another list member's ghost post with "hateful, hate filled 
clones": too upset to come up with more adjectives? I'd say you and your 
lot are the ones filled with hate and madness. I'm happy even with pipes 
in my kitchen frozen, the cable being out, my cat being sick and numerous 
(very minor) health problems of my own.
Would you be happy to be deported, confined in a tiny cell and tortured 
for what amounts to a hint of a rumor?

Dwell in your hatred, just don't let it consume you.
He wasn't dwelling in his hatred, he was referring to the hatred expressed 
by the Bush administration by taking these extreme, fascist, racist 
measures.  He's asking if we all think it's OK to combat people like bin 
Laden and Hussain by becoming more like them.  What do you think?  Do we 
just avert our eyes?

--
Doug
Who hopes both you and your cat are better soon, the pipes aren't broken 
and you've got a good movie or two you can watch while the cable's out. 8^)
For myself I'll only get better when I die. (Not saying I believe in life 
after death, just the release from ills and pain part; and I don't expect 
that to happen for another 60 years. I have no major problems, just the 
little ones that can't get better.) The cat, I don't know. He's 14 at least 
(shelter rescue). I started giving him Iam's diet food. He has lost a lot 
of weight but now seems to be having hair-ball problems. I'm used to cats 
throwing up, but this one never had before this. I don't want to give 
details, just not fun.

My pipes unfroze about an hour ago. They freeze every year and have not 
burst. It's just poor house design. The kitchen is on the back porch. Only 
the attic has insulation; the pipes run right to an outside wall then up, 
right above the outside basement door so lots of cold areas. Last summer I 
rewrapped the heat tape but still doesn't help on 5 F nights. Friday night 
they were free, but I should have run the hot water until hot water came 
out. I won't let it drip overnight, it does not help.

And the cable got fixed today. I knew what the problem was and it took the 
guy five minutes. Where the cable comes down, outside between my house and 
the next, the cable end was bad and every time the neighbors took their 
garbage out or the kids running there, it got knocked loose. On Thursday, 
while I was home, it went out and I heard the neighbors. I came out to ask 
them to please watch the cable, but they were already in their car and 
gone. I went to put it back in but the internal cable had broken. Now, I 
know how to fix it, I was a TV repairman for three years. But for the 
amount of money Comcast charges, that I had called them twice already about 
it, and other BS I decided to call them again. Plus I have satellite and 
was working during Saturday's football games so no biggy.

Now: I'm watching my attempt of making Cordon Blue go horribly wrong. And a 
woman I've been talking with for two months just stopped communicating, no 
reason just a "I do not wish to pursue this anymore" message; I got it 20 
minutes ago.

Kevin T.
Suddenly tired
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Re: Extraordinary Rendition

[Kevin Tarr]

At 03:41 PM 1/11/2004, you wrote:
> It is time someone asked. What our government did to Maher Arar is worse
> than anything the British did to our Colonial forefathers. It was worse
> than anything J. Edgar Hoover did to alleged Communists, civil rights
> workers and anti-war activists during his long program of dirty tricks.
>
Wasting your time. There is not a single right-wing fanatic on this list (or
in dittoland) who will give a damn about what we did to this poor bastard.
It's far too easy to scream "war against terror" to justify anything they 
want to
do or cover up. The fact that Bush and Ashcroft between them are in the
process of jettisoning much of what makes America WORTH defending in the 
first
place is completely lost on Rush and his hateful, hate-filled clones. This 
is why
Dubya is the worst president we've ever had, and John Ashcroft is by far the
worst Attorney-General (by such a far margin that he makes Edwin Meese and 
John
Mitchell look almost acceptable by comparison).

I know this sounds inflammatory and I don't care. I don't see how anyone can
defend men who can perpetrate such an outrageous injustice. There is nothing
that justifies this, nothing at all. If we can't defeat our enemies by any
other means than by becoming them, then we don't deserve to win. This guy did
nothing and they treated him like he personally guided the planes into the 
Twin
Towers by wire. George Bush and John Ashcroft are the worst kind of scum - 
men
who hide despicable actions behind airy, lofty motives. They don't even have
the guts to admit their villainy.



Tom Beck
Responding to another list member's ghost post with "hateful, hate filled 
clones": too upset to come up with more adjectives? I'd say you and your 
lot are the ones filled with hate and madness. I'm happy even with pipes in 
my kitchen frozen, the cable being out, my cat being sick and numerous 
(very minor) health problems of my own.

Dwell in your hatred, just don't let it consume you.

Kevin T. - VRWC
I prefer ditto (as in D. Brin's novel)
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Re: Ha Ha! At Last!

[Kevin Tarr]

At 11:35 PM 1/10/2004, you wrote:
Gautam Mukunda wrote:

> --- Travis Edmunds <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > You see, I'm at somewhat of a disadvantage due to my
> > age. I'm only 21, and
> > I'm only now beginning to immerse myself into the
> > things I really enjoy.
> >
> > -Travis
>
> That mean's I'm no longer the youngest Brin-Ler.  It's
> about time! :-)
--
So who's oldest?

George A

P.S.  I'm 53 and would just as soon NOT win the prize.
Maybe the website could put up an anonymous poll? It could list the 
youngest/oldest ages and the average.

And I'm wondering, isn't Andrew C younger than Gautam? If he's still posting.

Kevin T. - VRWC
Sneaking up on 37
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Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry

[Kevin Tarr]

>

As promised, my ex-wife replies:

The Texas Miracle  or The National Nightmare.?


rob
I don't know how much was hers, if it all was. I'm not arguing against 
anything written. I just want to point out that this has been going on for 
years under all leadership, as the point seemed to be. I consider the 
problem to come from 1960s (earlier?) when the DoE was created. The Federal 
gov should not receive or pay out one penny, it should all be handled on 
the state level. If the DoE remains, it can monitor individual states, and 
offer suggestions but not mandates.

The problem is money, not too little but too much. Too much for 
administrators to sit around doing nothing else but trying to figure how to 
get more. Too much for teachers and their unions to drool over. Too much to 
build gilded palaces and sports emporiums.

As the writer said, the tax payers are the ones feeling the brunt. I'm not 
saying I think I should pay nothing, but there aren't too many areas with 
so little oversight. Unpaid, nonprofessional busybodies controlling tens of 
millions of dollars. (And before anyone says I should do something, because 
of my job I cannot hold an elected position.)

Kevin T. - VRWC
Enough for now
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Re: Shrub's Conspiracy to Invade Iraq Revealed by Ex-Admin Official

[Kevin Tarr]

At 03:16 PM 1/10/2004, you wrote:
<>
"From the very beginning, there was a conviction that Saddam Hussein was
a bad person and that he needed to go," he tells Stahl. "For me, the
notion of pre-emption, that the U.S. has the unilateral right to do
whatever we decide to do is a really huge leap," says O'Neill.
O'Neill, fired by the White House for his disagreement on tax cuts, is
the main source for an upcoming book, "The Price of Loyalty," authored by
Ron Suskind. Suskind says O'Neill and other White House insiders he
interviewed gave him documents that show that in the first three months
of 2001, the administration was looking at military options for removing
Saddam Hussein from power and planning for the aftermath of Saddam's
downfall, including post-war contingencies like peacekeeping troops, war
crimes tribunals and the future of Iraq's oil. "There are memos," Suskind
tells Stahl, "One of them marked 'secret' says 'Plan for Post-Saddam
Iraq.'" A Pentagon document, says Suskind, titled "Foreign Suitors For
Iraqi Oilfield Contracts," outlines areas of oil exploration. "It talks
about contractors around the world from...30, 40 countries and which ones
have what intentions on oil in Iraq," Suskind says.
And there are plans for invading N Korea, Cuba, Russia, China, Japan, 
Columbia, New Zealand, Spain, Canada..any country you want. It's what 
the military does.

There already were Foreign Suitors for Iraqi Oil, like France.

Kevin T. - VRWC
Don't let the facts hit your ass on the way out
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Re: Physics Quiz

[Kevin Tarr]

At 01:21 PM 1/10/2004, you wrote:

http://intuitor.com/physics_test/PhysicsSavvy.html





77.5 %
Embarrassing
xponent
But At Least I Passed Without Study  Maru
rob


80%. Two of the questions I missed because I did understood the answer 
differently, but I dispute some of the others. Not that the answers were 
wrong, but the way the question read.

At least I got the electricity ones right.

Kevin T. - VRWC
My brother will get 100%, I hope
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Re: Return of the King Review Re: my mini review

[Kevin Tarr]

At 01:13 PM 1/10/2004, you wrote:
Vilyehm Teighlore wrote:
> > Or in Scotland you wake up with a blue ribbon tied
Debbi replied:
> I Dunno Wher Ya Bin, Milad, But I See Ya Won Firs'
> Prize! Maru;}
Funny this song should come up now...

There are a lot of different versions of that last line.  "I don't know
where ya bin my boy," "my friend," even changing the word order to "Lad (or
boy or friend) I don't know where ya bin"
And oddly enough, the song was not written by a Scot, but by an American
folk singer named Mike Cross, born in Tennessee and raised in the
Appalachian mountains who took up guitar playing after giving up a college
golf scholarship to follow his girlfriend to the college of *her* choice.
He picks up the story there:
 We broke up when I was a freshman. I'd given up my golf
 scholarship and even sold my clubs, so I had to find something
 to replace them. I think that's why I took up the guitar. I needed
 a new passion in life.
http://www.mikecross.com/

By strange coincidence (yet another example of list synchronicity), I just
recently purchased a used copy of "Dr. Demento 20th Anniversary Collection:
The Greatest Novelty Records Of All Time."  The Bryan Bowers recording of
"The Scotsman" is the second song on the first CD of the two-CD set.
Reggie Bautista
The version I have has "Lad I donna know where ya bin"

From that story I wonder if any his songs are about the power of P.

Kevin T. - VRWC
Insert joke about child of a goddess here
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Re: Flight Sim and Witch Hunts

[Kevin Tarr]

> At one time it was rare to find US citizens, in the safest and most
> prosperous country in the world, jumping at their own shadows. Now
we
> only note how high.
I work with some ..middle age, Russians, and they are starting to
discuss a feeling of Deja-vu they are experiencing. These discussions
usualy end with the concept that we should really start worrying when
we ~no longer~ hear about such things in the media.


My college advisor (who should rot in hell for deciding that my two already 
completed physics courses weren't good enough with only one semester to go) 
was investigated by the FBI twice because of the number of radio antennas 
at his house. The first time was 1978, the second 1983. The 1983 people 
refused to acknowledge that they were there in 1978, even though he kept 
copies of forms he had to sign. His family had been in America for at least 
four generations.

So this is not a new thing. I want follow up investigations on suspicious 
purchases. How many people were saying the FBI didn't connect the dots on 
Oklahoma City or 9/11? But one person gets a visit by the cops and suddenly 
it's 1953 USSR? (Year chosen at random.)

The fools story was so not newsworthy that a British paper has to publish 
it. The Boston Globe must be shatting themselves over being scooped.

Kevin T. - VRWC
Hand me my torch, I have to make an enquiry into this dark hole.
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Re: SCOUTED: Poincare Conjecture (Really) Solved?

[Kevin Tarr]

At 09:14 PM 1/8/2004, you wrote:
At 06:14 PM 1/8/04, Kevin Tarr wrote:
At 06:51 PM 1/8/2004, you wrote:
(For those who have forgotten their topology, the Poincare Conjecture 
states that every simply connected closed three-manifold is homeomorphic 
to the three-sphere.)

<<http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/West/01/07/math.mystery.ap/index.html>>

<<http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040107.wmath17/BNStory/International/>>

<<http://www.boston.com/news/globe/health_science/articles/2003/12/30/century_old_math_problem_may_have_been_solved/>>

<<http://www.sltrib.com/2004/Jan/01082004/nation_w/127178.asp>>


Hey! Watch it with the dirty talk.


It says "homeomorphic", not "homomorphic."  Don't you know the difference?



I Left Out "Meromorphic" Because I Didn't Want The Question To Be Too 
Complex Maru



-- Ronn!  :)


I'm too sophomoric to bother to read.

Seriously, I didn't make this mistake on the e-mail, but lately a lot of 
things I read, it's like words are dropping out of sentences. Not fun.

Kevin T. - VRWC
I predict!
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Re: SCOUTED: Poincare Conjecture (Really) Solved?

[Kevin Tarr]

At 06:51 PM 1/8/2004, you wrote:
(For those who have forgotten their topology, the Poincare Conjecture 
states that every simply connected closed three-manifold is homeomorphic 
to the three-sphere.)

<>

<>

<>

<>


Hey! Watch it with the dirty talk.

Kevin T. - VRWC
Closed mind
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Re: Rugby: was Shouldn't this have read N->F<-L

[Kevin Tarr]

At 10:55 PM 1/5/2004, you wrote:
Jan Coffey wrote:

> The Sugarboal. (Why do they call it a boal?) OU looked like they
> didn't care, but then the LSU defence was rolling over them.
In answer to the question, I think because various stadiums were called
"bowls" or something.  If anyone has a better answer, I'd be interested
in it.
Yes, that's mostly right. The football game played after the Rose 
festival/parade was first. There was a game in 1902, then the next one in 
1916. When a new stadium was built in the 20s for the football game someone 
suggested it be called the rose bowl. The Orange and Sugar followed in the 
30s, with Cotton coming later. But Sugar bowl was called that more because 
of the trophy, (I can't find) there was never any sugar bowl stadium. And 
the orange and cotton bowls were built after the first games.

I can understand the arguments against football, but to me it seems like 
nothing is happening in rugby or soccer most of the time. I would never say 
I'm an expert, but I've watched enough to form my opinion.

Kevin T. - VRWC
Flame on
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Re: Minimal Profits for Halliburton

[Kevin Tarr]

At 07:46 PM 1/3/2004, you wrote:

- Original Message -
From: "John D. Giorgis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2004 5:31 PM
Subject: Minimal Profits for Halliburton
> Here is the NY Times Article that found that so far there have been,
quote
> "minimal profits" for Haliburton.
>
> JDG
Any corporation worth its salt can have small or zero profits from certain
international operations.  Its been SOP in the oil patch for at least the
last 20 yearsI know because that's how long I've been in there.
If you want, I can tell you some of the techniques, but it should be self
evident.
I know a lot of the good 'ol boys at Halliburton.  I'd be shocked beyond
belief if they didn't take every dime they could out of the situation.
Dan M.
I read a non-fiction serialization in Playboy about the oil business while 
I worked for Halliburton. I hate to call them abuses, but that's what the 
writer did. The main line was "We don't pump oil out of the ground, it's 
money." !00% agreement with you Dan. They reimbursed me for anything I 
could claim as job related. I'd get plane tickets that had me going from 
State College to Philly to Chicago to Hobby in Houston. I'd get it changed 
to Pittsburgh straight to Houston IA and save them a couple of hundred. Of 
course, they'd quibble on the $40 taxi ride from IA to Hobby, but they 
would still pay it.

Remember when LA had it's earthquake, 3-5 years after the SF earthquake? A 
year later the major contractor for the highway construction got a million 
dollar bonus for finishing his job in time, while they were still 
negotiating in SF. After the 1991 war how long were the oil fires supposed 
to last? Years? Carl Segan predicted a nuclear winter. And how long did it 
take until the last one was put out? Two months? In fact Halliburton lost a 
lot of money after the first war, they hired thousands of people and really 
fired up their machine shops expecting a lot of work for years in the gulf. 
A year later the job was done.

You don't call ELF to fix the oil fields, you call KBR. You don't get some 
small company to build big things, you get Bechtel.

Kevin T. - VRWC
Go Tennessee
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RE: indoor fun

[Kevin Tarr]

At 05:12 PM 1/3/2004, you wrote:
> From: Kevin Tarr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> So I get my indoor trainer out of the basement. This is the
> first time I've ridden this winter.
>
> Is this a sign?
Yes!  It's a sign that you have a strange idea of indoor fun!

  - jmh
Doing this might afford me the chance to do more fun activities, but I'm 
not holing my breath.

Kevin T. - VRWC
At least, not anymore
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indoor fun

[Kevin Tarr]

So I get my indoor trainer out of the basement. This is the first time I've 
ridden this winter. I usually use it with my mountain bike, but put my 
second road bike on it this year. I like my mountain bike, but can't get a 
good leg extension with it. So after two minutes something feels funny. I 
look down and it looks as if my rear wheel is disintegrating! I stop and 
climb off. The problem: the rubber wheel on the magnetic flywheel 
completely melted. There's rubber on the floor, the bike, the radiator, my 
shoes, my shorts.

Is this a sign?

Kevin T. - VRWC
But I feel good.
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wireless internet

[Kevin Tarr]

Asking now so I can have a plan in March.

Me and friends are going to be in a location (bar) and need access to a 
couple of websites while we are there. I do not think my area supports any 
wireless internet services yet. Even if a phone company had some services, 
I only need it for a few days; I don't want some long term deal.

We do know the bar owner, but doubt the cable company would provide cable 
modem service for just a few days. There is a bar that provides internet 
service, but we like where we go now.

So any links to another way to do this, to get interent service in a 
location for just a few days?

Kevin T.
Madness?
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RE: Mexican Diplomat Charged With Helping Smuggle Arabs Into U.S.

[Kevin Tarr]

At 02:07 PM 1/3/2004, you wrote:

> >Actually, Ridge is right.If the US were to somehow
> manage to enforce
> >its immigration laws and remove 8 to 12 million workers from our
> >economy - the effects on the US would be catastrophic.
> >
> >JDG
> Prove it.
> Kevin T.
That depends if the US unemployed workers would be willing to jump in
and take those jobs. This may be a stereotypical comment, but I suspect
that many illegal immigrant workers are doing jobs that many US workers
would refuse to do - even if they are unemployed. It would be an
interesting experiment to model.
Gary
Let's look at the numbers: The US population is ~280 million. The total 
employment is 138.6 million. The original article said 8 to 12 million 
illegals not 8 to 12 million illegal workers. 140/280 is 50 percent so 8 to 
12 million illegals is 4 to 6 million illegal workers. At the high end 
that's 5% of the work force. Since the unemployment rate is 5.9%, that 
would go down to 0.9%. There, solved unemployment with a few keystrokes. 
(Of course that wouldn't happen, but just showing it.)

I do think it's stereotypical to assume that all illegals are fruit pickers 
and janitorial workers or that they are getting paid below minimum wage, 
that prices for good and services would go up noticeably if the illegals 
were removed. I'd love to trot out my own stereotype, that there would be a 
savings by removing the drain on society that non taxpaying illegals bring 
but I won't ;-)

This problem has been going on for years. If the country wants to be 
serious about it's border security then it has to have short term pain for 
long term benefits.

Kevin T. - VRWC
3:30, time to get dressed
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Re: Mexican Diplomat Charged With Helping Smuggle Arabs Into U.S.

[Kevin Tarr]

At 12:47 PM 1/3/2004, you wrote:
At 05:21 PM 12/31/2003 -0600 Robert Seeberger wrote:
>Almost a month after Ortiz was arrested, Homeland Security Secretary
>Tom Ridge said: "The bottom line is, as a country we have to come to
>grips with the presence of 8 to 12 million illegals, afford them some
>kind of legal status some way, but also as a country decide what our
>immigration policy is and then enforce it."
>
>No, Mr. Secretary. We already have immigration laws. It's your duty to
>enforce them. If the arrest of a Mexican diplomat for helping to
>smuggle Arabs into the U.S. can't convince you of the need for that,
>what will?
Actually, Ridge is right.If the US were to somehow manage to enforce
its immigration laws and remove 8 to 12 million workers from our economy -
the effects on the US would be catastrophic.
JDG


Prove it.

Kevin T.

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RE: Davidbrin.com blocked by WebSense

[Kevin Tarr]

> place. Notice any
> reduction in the amount of junk in your inbox? Neither have
> I."  In fact,
> if my inbox is typical, if anything, recently it's been
> getting worse . . .
I agree completely, I have started to receive almost twice the amount of
mail in the last few weeks, especially mail about an heiress (who shall
remain unnamed due to filtering) and her video escapades. :-)
Gary
I think the amount of spam I get has gone down a lot since Nov. But I never 
got the large amounts that I hear other complain about. I only get one 
Nigerian scam e-mail on this account per week. I have a hotmail account 
which gets a lot more, but I'm very active in using their filtering.

I didn't know about the law however. I read an article yesterday about 
either this law or the campaign finance reform law. Incumbents can send 
letters, free of charge (franking privileges*), right up until election day 
while challengers (maybe) and support groups must stop 90 days before. And 
of course politicians are not hamstrung by the do not call list or law. 
Nothing makes me madder than having six phone messages a day during an 
election cycle, half of them are hang ups or I get only part of the message.

*http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/minute/Senate_Ends_Franked_Mail_Priviledge.htm

or

http://tinyurl.com/2edor

Kevin T. - VRWC
11:30, time for breakfast
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Re: Overpriced Shirts and Irregulars Question

[Kevin Tarr]

At 10:53 PM 1/2/2004, you wrote:
I'm pretty sure I set the price of the shirt at my online
store too high, so as an apology, I've decreased it from
$19.99 to $16.99. Do y'all consider $3 of profit per
shirt fair?
http://www.cafeshops.com/Sloan3D

As for the Irregulars question, Dr. Brin suggested that I
donate part of each sale I make at my store to an appropriate
charity, as a way to promote my store and do good at the
same time. Which groups do good work preserving wildlife in
general? Which ones are good at protecting the individual
species that are so important to the Uplift stories, the
dolphins, whales, chimps, and gorillas?
And one other thing: Please don't hesitate to gripe at me
if you think I'm spamming the list. :-)
I'm only asking this from a business POV. There are many things I do not 
know and would like some details. Let me back up a step. I get t-shirts 
made for two groups I'm involved in. I'm assuming you are not the one 
making those shirts, that physically you never touch them. My point is: if 
you are only making $3, then the company charges $14. Subtracting the cost 
of shipping, they are making up to if not over 200% profit. Some of that 
may be taken by their location (California), and definitely by website 
costs but that is a nice margin for not doing any extra work.

On your side is the infamous Laffer curve. You aren't collecting taxes, but 
there is a relationship between what you charge and what you'll get back. 
Do you expect a hundred people to buy the shirt? Would 150 buy it if the 
price dropped another dollar? (I'm assuming no on both questions.)

What does the image feel like? Is it inkjetted on or like an iron-on?

Charities, what about the WWF? Their expenditures are high, but I don't 
give them money so no harm no foul.

Kevin T.
No real help
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Re: Science Fiction In Music

[Kevin Tarr]

At 01:55 PM 1/2/2004, you wrote:

- Original Message -
From: "Travis Edmunds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: Science Fiction In Music
>
> Has anyone mentioned Rush?
>
Yea, there was a thread on his hypocrisy last month.

Dan M.
Oh, haha*, I thought he meant this

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/NAJL10201.htm

Alex Lifeson was arrested on six charges including aggravated battery on a 
law enforcement officer, resisting arrest and disorderly intoxication.

Kevin T. - VRWC
Living on a lighted stage
*I kept reading it, not knowing what Dan meant. I didn't see the word "his".
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Re: Efficient bus

[Kevin Tarr]

Hmmm they might be running low voltage/high amperage AC.  With
contemporary frequency controls, AC might be the way to control speed
and power.  Does anyone know whether DC still provides the most
starting/low speed torque?  Or have the variable frequency AC
controllers improved AC motors enough?
By the way, what is the maximum wattage for a typical car motor?  What
is average cruise wattage?
Robert J. Chassell


If you would have asked these questions three years ago when I was an 
engineer I'd have a ready answer. Now the knowledge has floated away, along 
with the access to sources. I cannot for the life of me remember the 
application or what the machine did but we were all impressed that it had a 
AC motor instead of DC. I know the one older tech was dismissive, while the 
oldest said it was about time. We did have a reflective sand dispenser that 
was controlled by AC. It was used in Europe, but we couldn't get it to 
function. It was clogging up too often, there'd be too much current draw 
and it would shut down.

One friend, that I only see three times a year, is an elevator 
installer/repairman. We had a talk last month (he knew all about the 
accident in Rob's hospital) and he said they are using AC motors now. Quick 
google:

http://www.pdlelectronics.com/articles/AB0899.htm

(ha ha, Schindler Lifts)

So if elevators use them...

Kevin T. - VRWC
Time for bed
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Re: RIDDLES: Yet another thread for fun.

[Kevin Tarr]

At 08:52 PM 12/29/2003, you wrote:

Kevin--
If you think that you have it cold, why don't you tell us?
---David

Infinite games Maru


I didn't know if anybody else wanted to try. I'll post the answer in 8 hours.

Kevin T. - VRWC


The answer is splinter.
Shiver and burst from the clue sentence I gave. A stretch, I know.
This should be easy:

I am the ruler of shovels
I have a double
I am as thin as a knife
I have a wife
What am I?
Kevin T. - VRWC
Off to work
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Re: RIDDLES: Yet another thread for fun.

[Kevin Tarr]

Kevin--
If you think that you have it cold, why don't you tell us?
---David

Infinite games Maru


I didn't know if anybody else wanted to try. I'll post the answer in 8 hours.

Kevin T. - VRWC

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Re: RIDDLES: Yet another thread for fun.

[Kevin Tarr]

At 01:26 PM 12/18/2003, you wrote:
Lets play a little game. I'll start things off by throwing a riddle on the 
table. The first person to correctly answer the riddle has the privilege 
of posting a riddle of their own.

This guy went into the forest one day. Once there he got it, but he 
couldn't get it. So he left it there and brought it back home. What did he get?


Ahh, I know the real answer now. I got a chill when it dawned on me. (and 
there are two hints in that sentence).

Kevin T. - VRWC
Another wasted hour
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Re: RIDDLES: Yet another thread for fun.

[Kevin Tarr]

You know, I would probably do the same thing you're doing right about now. 
However this is a classic case of over-analysis. The answer (or perhaps 
more accurately "my" answer) isn't a sense of anything, nor is it an 
intangible, abstract concept of any type. Rather it is something quite 
concrete.

-Travis
Is it concrete?

Kevin T. - VRWC
I liked catwoman better.
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Re: Star Trek The Next Generation question

[Kevin Tarr]

At 02:44 PM 12/29/2003, you wrote:
"Miller, Jeffrey" wrote:
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Julia Thompson
> > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 08:33 AM
> > To: Killer Bs Discussion
> > Subject: Star Trek The Next Generation question
> >
> >
> > The episode that ends with Worf in the mud bath (can't
> > remember the name, but if you know the answer to the
> > question, I'm sure you'll remember exactly which episode that is):
> >
> > At some point, Alexander is walking around saying "The
> > er, the _er."  Or something like that.
> >
> > We can't remember what's in the blanks.  If anyone remembers
> > and cares to share, we're interested.  :)
>
> Worf in a mud bath?  Alexander must've been saying "the horror.. the 
horror.."

1)  What Alexander was saying happened earlier in the episode than the
mud bath.
2)  The one most horrified by Worf being in the mud bath was Worf
himself.  Alexander enjoyed it.  Lwaxana enjoyed it, as well.  I think
maybe Deanna was in there, too.
But what's really memorable is Worf in the mud bath at the end.  That
and Lwaxana showing up naked for her wedding.
Julia
I said this a year or four ago. Alexander said "The higher the fewer". I 
found this:

http://tiger.towson.edu/discussion/cosc/cosc/0012.htm

but thought I saw a different explanation from England, something about 
foreign troops asking questions and getting false answers, making the 
questioner think you were crazy.

Kevin T. - VRWC
I take Deanna in a mudbath for 600 Alex
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Re: Filtering

[Kevin Tarr]

At 10:16 AM 12/28/2003, you wrote:
At 02:16 PM 12/21/03, Travis Edmunds wrote:



From: Ronn!Blankenship <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Filtering
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 12:34:57 -0600
What does the rest of the list think?  Should we avoid environmental 
topics entirely from now on, or what?  I sure don't to offend anyone or 
cause anyone to leave the list.



-- Ronn!  :)
Assuming it's a sincere question, as I'm not certain whether or not you 
jest, let me just say that no topic should be avoided, omitted, 
ostracized, black-listed etc...


I am sincere about not wanting to offend anybody to the extent that they 
leave the list.

However, I also agree with everyone who has said that it is ultimately up 
to each member of the list to decide how to handle threads which upset 
them.  On occasion someone has said something which upset me, but I'm 
still here . . .

(I suppose someone will see that as a challenge . . . )



-- Ronn!  :)
Ummm, go Auburn?

Mississippi's Gulf coast is bigger!

Kevin T. - VRWC
Astronomers do it in the dark
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Re: Science Fiction In General

[Kevin Tarr]

At 01:47 PM 12/27/2003, you wrote:

Doug Pensinger wrote:
>I'm just finishing Snow Crash (Neal Stephenson)
What did you think?

>I was shopping for my brother in law who also reads a lot of SF and
>ended up getting him a copy of Iain M. Banks' Inversions without
>thinking too much about it.  I need to get a copy of Consider
>Phlebas or Player of Games (or both) for him to read first
Player of Games is the only one I've read so far, and I liked it a 
lot.  It seems like a good intro to the Culture.  What should I read next 
from him, you think?

Jim
And to add to Doug's answer, I think it depends on what level of sci-fi you 
want. I think Player of Games is a weak book, compared with the rest. 
Excession is very high tech and is my favorite, but it was also my first. 
CP is interesting as is Look to Windward. Both have technology but are also 
character driven like PoG. Inversions is best after those three, because 
you will then know what is going on. Then again, I read it and still don't 
know what happened. (You'll see). Use of Weapons is the best book, but save 
it for last if you can.

Kevin T. - VRWC

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