[FairfieldLife] Re: Big Daddy In The Sky and his enlightened helpers
...you forgot to add that you don't read her posts, except in Message View. C'mon Turq, at least LIE consistently! :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: I think that the reason most people tune out what they call the Judy-Barry Wars is that they ARE boring. Look at the post that follows; it has one and only one intent, which is to 1) dump on Barry and call him wrong, and 2) attempt to get others to do the same thing. That's pretty much all she does. That's pretty much all she has done for over 16 years. As far as I can tell, that's all she *can* do, because she doesn't have the intellectual or spiritual chops to do anything else. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Joe geezerfreak@ wrote: Judy, the reason I don't comment on the Judy/Barry wars is that those are the very reason I bail for extended periods of time. Joe, this had to do with Barry getting the basic premise wildly wrong--the one you, wayback, blusc0ut, and I were discussing (and all agreeing about). You know as well as I do that his tirade completely missed the boat. In this case it isn't about the Judy/Barry wars, it's about how you can't bring yourself to criticize Barry in any way, even when you're well aware that he's fouled up. Steve pointed this out awhile back, and you had a fit. But Steve was right. Get it? *No matter who was involved*, Barry got it wrong, you know he got it wrong, and you didn't correct him, the only one of the four of us who didn't. snip I'm going to guess (though I don't know for sure) that one of the reasons Barry avoids direct communication with you about these things is that he finds it boring as well. He's guaranteed to assent to this, and since this is my last post for the week, his assent will be accompanied by another long tirade (or two, or three) attacking me for being boring no matter what I'm talking about. But just between you and me and the gatepost and anybody with any brains on FFL, that isn't why he avoids direct communication. That's his *excuse* for avoiding it. I think you know that, and I think you know why he really avoids it. Having said that, I agree that the rest of the conversation this week about gurus, gunas and right action has been fascinating and anything but boring. Its great discussions like these that keep me coming back! Yes, I thought it was pretty neat too. We covered a lot of ground and hopefully shed a bit of light, at least for some folks, on stuff that tends to be pretty murky and confusing. See youse all on Friday or Saturday.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Echo Chamber Effect
The thing is Turq, is that not only are you trying to enlighten people on FFL wrt assumptions they may be making, the only reason for someone thinking differently according to you is that they are wrong or stupid or brainwashed or attacking and dumping on you. You aren't trying to challenge people's assumptions, you are merely trying to deflect any criticism from yourself. If hearing that makes you uptight and makes you think that I am attacking you by saying it, you might want to look into that reaction, and try to figure out where it came from. :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: The thing I was trying to get at in my reply to wayback just now is that one of the things that most amazes me about Fairfield Life is that I don't think most of its participants understand how much stuff they just *assume* is true, for no other reason than because they've been immersed in an environment in which pretty much *everyone* assumed that these things were true, and for so long. For DECADES now many of the people here have lived in a kind of intellectual echo chamber, in which everyone was expected to assume that the Vedas (or what they were told about them by MMY) were Truth Incarnate, and describe the universe accurately, as it really is. Every day on this forum someone (or mulitple people) make that assumption as the basis for something else they post. They just assume that the three gunas are a real phenomenon, a correct description of the universe and how it works. They assume that enlightenment itself is a real thing, even though they have never seen objective evidence of its existence. I guess what I perceive as one of my functions here is to point out every so often that these things ARE assump- tions, and very possibly unwarranted assumptions. I think that they are the result of living for decades in an echo chamber -- an environment whose leaders never challenged the validity of the dogma they promoted, and who in fact tried their best to make sure that challenges to that dogma were suppressed whenever they arose. I guess what I'm trying to suggest is that many of the things you believe are true or truth might not be. There are other theories of the universe and how it works than the Vedas, and some of them make a great deal more sense and don't require you to believe in nonsense. If hearing that makes you uptight and makes you think that I am attacking you by saying it, you might want to look into that reaction, and try to figure out where it came from. It sounds a lot like religious fundamentalism to me.
[FairfieldLife] The TM Learning Process, or The Road To Fundamentalism
[ Caveat: What follows is my opinion, and in fact my considered opinion, arrived at after decades of being part of the TMO from the inside and observing it and its members from the outside. You are well within your rights to believe something else, because after all, it is nothing BUT opinion. But so is what you believe. ] I figured that, on the heels of my Echo Chamber Effect post, I should delineate some of the ways in which I think TMers have, in fact, been indoctrinated to believe certain things, disbelieve others, and adopt a funda- mentalist defensive stance towards the former and an offensive, attack mode stance towards the latter. This is how I view the TM Learning Process, after having participated in it and observed it for 44 years: 1. You are taught to meditate, having been pre-taught exactly what is going to happen when you meditate, and how you should interpret what happens. Periods of thought stopping are not just thought stopping; they are transcendence, merging with the Home Of All Know- ledge, entering into a higher state of consciousness. 2. Your innocent experience of TM (which is anything but) is then followed up by three nights of indoctrin- ation into *more* of what your experience 'really' means and how to interpret it. You are told that not only is each meditation an experience of some mystical universal field of consciousness, doing it regularly is your only real way to eventually experience an even higher state of consciousness, enlightenment. You are told what enlightenment means, and told that it is the highest goal anyone could ever aspire to. 3. In the three nights of checking, and every time you walk into a TM center after that, you are encouraged to learn more. That is, you are encouraged to attend hour after hour of lectures on -- essentially -- Hindu thought and theories, sanitized for your protection by describing them as Vedic thought. At no point are any of these concepts presented *as* theories; they are presented as Truth, the highest knowledge avail- able on the planet. 4. After a few of these advanced lectures, you are encouraged to attend residence courses, during which you round (meditate so often that you are considered so spaced out and such a potential danger to yourself and others that you are not allowed to leave the facility in which the residence course is being held). You are also forced to sit in front of TVs and watch hours and hours of additional indoctrination on Hindu thought and concepts, many of them delivered by genuflect Maharishi Himself. 5. By putting Maharishi Himself in scare quotes, I am hoping to capture the way that MMY is presented to new students. That is, as the ultimate authority, an enlightened being whose every word reflects the Truth about the world and how it works. Even if it's not expressed in words, the deference and sense of obeis- ance that the TM teachers feel towards him is conveyed subconsciously to the students, so much so that when they first have an opportunity to meet him, they cannot conceive of doing so except in the accepted manner -- standing in a line and deferentially offer- ing him a flower. By the time they actually do meet him, they can no longer even conceive of *challenging* any of the things he says; the lesson has been driven home to them by this time that such behavior is inappropriate and disrespectful. If Maharishi says it, it's not only true, but Truth. 6. Then (at least in the past), if you want to dive further into the TM knowledge, you have to take SCI. Which is basically the equivalent of being forced to sit in front of hours and hours and hours of the most boring and pretentious drivel you have ever seen on television, while pretending that it isn't boring. More indoctrination into Just STFU and let the waves of Ultimate Truth wash over you. 7. All along the way, TM is never once presented as just another spiritual path; it is always presented as The Best such path, the highest path. The TM teachers, in fact, respond to questions about other paths (including the path taught by the real Shank- aracharya tradition MMY comes from) by putting them down, as they were taught to do on their TTCs. 8. Other sources of information about meditation or the spiritual path are systematically put down and demonized, and accessing them actually punished. I have seen several people told that they were not allowed to attend long residence courses or go TTC because they had the wrong kinds of books on their bookshelves, or admitting to having read such Off The Program books. This is *still* being punished in Fairfield and in other official TM locations as those who dare to actually go see some other spiritual teacher are declared heretics, and excommunicated. The lesson being taught is simple and obvious -- Only *we* have the 'right' answers and interpret- ations about spiritual practice; listening to anyone else's answers or interpretations is dangerous for you and will not be
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Dome Numbers
Take those dome numbers as goal, they are purposefully unifying: This is a critical time and a tremendous opportunity for all of us. We cannot afford to fall back from what we have accomplished so far. We need to sustain and build upon what we have created over these past four yearsand create true and lasting invincibility for our nation and peace for our world family. Raja John Hagelin The immediate urgent priority for national invincibility and world peace is to join the Invincible America Course at MUM. Only 2000 Flyers, rising to 2500, in Fairfield/Maharishi Vedic City will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world The question is: does this really help? Just look at it from the top and laugh? I think you really have to go in the shit (the relative world) and work there, and see what comes out. Well, shit yes if they have guts to act. Yep, a great example of this within this particular 'dome number' thread would be these damn TM-Rajas. Take those dome numbers as goal, they are purposefully unifying. Then a few things that should help the dome numbers here if these TM-Rajas had guts along with a spine to act. A few things would be: Git rid of that DADT policy the guidelines and all that about having seen saints and spiritual teachers. Ethics: work at being honest every way and being transparent about that. Work at gathering meditators back by becoming more spiritually ecumenical, less abrasive and less arrogant by reaching out to where all the meditators had went on to. Specifically deliver a vote of 'no-confidence' in that 'Prime Minister' who sits in the middle. Regime change. Retire the current MUM president. Send him packing around as 'emeritus' along with some of his people. Give them all 'Maharishi Awards' but give someone else the job, authority and power of being President of MUM now. Stop fealty testing. Just facilitate and plain welcome the meditators back. And of course drop entirely the robes, crowns and that invincibility sales pitch thing everywhere. Even to the January 12th birthday party in the dome. Or something like Guru Purnima. Jeesus. But no, instead they defeat the numbers at every turn in action. They and we are in deep shit with the dome numbers because they are such piss-poor doers in life. They are in charge of that. The buck stops there. It's life in the body and they are failing with the numbers. It's a damned shame. JGD, -Buck *all* experience is made up -- that is, self-generated, as a natural result of our (consciously or unconsciously chosen) finest feeling level, which in turn supports our (conscious or unconscious) mental stance, which in turn selects our supporting sensory-data from the vast paradoxical chaos of infinite possibility. When we are identified primarily with doing -- thinking we are primarily an I-unit or a particle enmeshed in spacetime -- we think that experience just happens to us, but we only think that because we have cut ourself off from our own source: our plain, simple, ordinary self, our own ever-present Presence, the one who constantly and continually programs all our sensory-devatas (again, unconsciously until we relax or back up into Us).
[FairfieldLife] Re: Big Daddy In The Sky and his enlightened helpers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: That's really my whole point in chiming in, wayback. So MANY people buy into the guna idea, which means in my opinion that they're buying into the idea of being Not Responsible (as the Firesign Theater guys used to say) for their own actions. I don't know what wayback has in mind, nor what Judy has, with whom you are talking here, even though indirectly. I can only talk to you about myself, and here it is. I am not out to defend TM, in fact I hardly connect the argument to TM itself or Maharishi or the TMO, I am just comparing notes. I am not trying to take sides here, pro or anti. This is not a semantic game for me. I am not trying to be rational, or give arguments. I am just honest about some beliefs, which work for me, and have a specific context for me, that is different from those of others here. It's not about the existence of God/gods or the gunas. For me, in my experience it is all about shakti. And it is not based on some kind of more or less abstract reflection/justification. I came up with this recognition more than 20 years ago. I realized there were oddities / discrepancies between what a certain saint/master said at that time, and the actual action of shakti which worked along with it, and which was unmistakeable for me. Through several such incidents, I came to the conclusion, that the shakti/energy would work on it's own. The shakti was contageous (still is). It actually brought about some of the biggest, most transformative experiences of my life. In fact I might have probably still be in TM, if it wasn't for that. I realized, that this energy was certainly always connected with this person /master, but it wasn't always clear if the master knew about it. At times certainly he knew, at other times he didn't seem to. There were sometimes seeming contradictions between the two. So I came to this conclusion: there is this power, which I percieve, which works for the good, and there were at the same time things this master said which I didn't like (and sometimes also didn't materialize). I also have to say, there was nothing grave in this discrepancies, much of it was depending on my own personality, no misuse or big things. I also have to say, that this person was well aware of having a normal human personality, and not being a model of perfection.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Big Daddy In The Sky and his enlightened helpers
On Feb 14, 2011, at 10:46 PM, Joe wrote: Judy, the reason I don't comment on the Judy/Barry wars is that those are the very reason I bail for extended periods of time. All of this angst over who said what, and how many times and the extensive cataloging for the record (what ever the hell that means) is mind numbingly boring to me. I would be willing to bet that it's similarly boring to many of the respondents here at FFL. I mean, read this: Barry even thought Joe was disagreeing with the premise, leaping to agree with Joe without realizing that Joe was agreeing with wayback, who was agreeing with me, and that I agreed with everything both of them said. (Interestingly, of the four of us who participated, Joe's the only one who has refrained from pointing out to Barry that--to put it mildly--he had missed the point.) It's truly mind-numbingly unbelievable that anybody could write the above and fail to see the obsessiveness therein...the above sentences would make no sense except to someone who just knew they were right, and couldn't rest until they were sure they had convinced everybody else of it as well. Not to mention, they are dripping with self-pity. Judy's very life seems to revolve around such insane trivia. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: Absolute Silence
This is all fine and can explain something of how natural law works in the body. Life in the body, of even the awakened. But what of the influence of growing up, culture? Learning manners? Skill-sets of social grace or not. Socialization. Some people obviously do groups better than others. But the range and distribution of getting along anyway is somewhere around the 'golden rule' as mean for most any culture that works, with some outliers either way. Like, I observe that this (a bad-behavior of poor manners) is a large aspect of why people who could meditate in the domes to help with the dome numbers do not in fact go to the domes. There is an evident TM ambiance of bad or rude behavior that has been allowed to rule particularly over places to sit and turf in the domes. A bad up-bringing that has gotten away with itself. Is that TM? Or just a poor moral reasoning that the movement has fostered? A few years ago Korean Airlines (KAL) flight safety was so bad they were being asked to not land at airports in places around the world. The essential problem was their culture. Poor collaboration inside the cockpit cabin by culture. It took a while to figure out what was going on as to why they were so dysfunctional as flight crews. However, it was an essential cultural dysfunction. To change the safety problem KAL in consulting had to bring veteran American pilots from Delta Airlines who literally had to break the Korean culture to get them to communicate effectively inside the cockpits to be able to effectively (safely) fly. It took some work to do but now KAL is flying fine and safe. The domes? The TM-Rajas could take a lesson from KAL in managing the domes. It might even take breaking a culture to get the dome numbers up and sustain them. The TM-Rajas certainly could help with the evident cultural problem of poor behavior that is there in the domes that keeps people away from the domes. JGD, -Buck I survey asking folks all the time if they have current dome badges and whether they go to meditate in the domes(?). An endemic TM problem of rudeness is by far the largest reason that people tend not to go to the domes. There are other practical reasons that people do not make the domes the place they meditate. But a manifest climate of airs and poor behavior by far is the largest reason that folks do not go to the domes with any regularity. TM? Improved moral reasoning? Evidently not. Room for improvement? Evidently so if they would like to get the numbers up. They should might have to break a culture to change things for the better. They've got a bad reputation. The TM-Rajas could change that to change things if they were not oblivious to their problem at hand. Life in the body. JGD, -Buck in FF
[FairfieldLife] Re: Big Daddy In The Sky and his enlightened helpers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, blusc0ut no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: That's really my whole point in chiming in, wayback. So MANY people buy into the guna idea, which means in my opinion that they're buying into the idea of being Not Responsible (as the Firesign Theater guys used to say) for their own actions. I don't know what wayback has in mind, nor what Judy has, with whom you are talking here, even though indirectly. I can only talk to you about myself, and here it is. Cool. I am not out to defend TM, in fact I hardly connect the argument to TM itself or Maharishi or the TMO, I am just comparing notes. I don't think I've ever made any suggestions to the contrary, but thank you for clarifying. :-) I am not trying to take sides here, pro or anti. This is not a semantic game for me. That makes you a rarity. :-) I am not trying to be rational, or give arguments. I am just honest about some beliefs, which work for me, and have a specific context for me, that is different from those of others here. Me, too. It's not about the existence of God/gods or the gunas. My butting in to the previous discussion was based on the fact that its entire premise was *predicated upon* the existence of the three gunas as described by MMY. The whole argument would have fallen apart if that had *not* been assumed. I consider it a fallacious assumption, so I spoke up. For me, in my experience it is all about shakti. And it is not based on some kind of more or less abstract reflection/justification. I came up with this recognition more than 20 years ago. I realized there were oddities / discrepancies between what a certain saint/master said at that time, and the actual action of shakti which worked along with it, and which was unmistakeable for me. I have no problem with this, as long as you recognize that unmistakable to me doth not equate to fact, but is the expression of a purely subjective experience. Through several such incidents, I came to the conclusion, that the shakti/energy would work on it's own. The shakti was contageous (still is). It actually brought about some of the biggest, most transformative experiences of my life. In fact I might have probably still be in TM, if it wasn't for that. I realized, that this energy was certainly always connected with this person /master, but it wasn't always clear if the master knew about it. At times certainly he knew, at other times he didn't seem to. There were sometimes seeming contradictions between the two. So I came to this conclusion: there is this power, which I percieve, which works for the good, and there were at the same time things this master said which I didn't like (and sometimes also didn't materialize). I also have to say, there was nothing grave in this discrepancies, much of it was depending on my own personality, no misuse or big things. I also have to say, that this person was well aware of having a normal human personality, and not being a model of perfection. Cool, I guess. It's as good an explanation as any, based on your subjective experience and interpretation of it. I appreciate that you aren't presenting it as Truth or the *only* way to explain things. So many do.
[FairfieldLife] Plan, er, B, from Outer Space??
So cute, those young maito-parta (milk-beard) idealists: http://nokiaplanb.com/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Big Daddy In The Sky and his enlightened helpers
On Feb 15, 2011, at 5:34 AM, blusc0ut wrote: For me, in my experience it is all about shakti. And it is not based on some kind of more or less abstract reflection/ justification. I came up with this recognition more than 20 years ago. I realized there were oddities / discrepancies between what a certain saint/master said at that time, and the actual action of shakti which worked along with it, and which was unmistakeable for me. Through several such incidents, I came to the conclusion, that the shakti/energy would work on it's own. The shakti was contageous (still is). It actually brought about some of the biggest, most transformative experiences of my life. In fact I might have probably still be in TM, if it wasn't for that. Bingo. My meditation practice, it's efficacy, it' playing out are all 'me and my shakti' -- and if I'm lucky no me, no her: mahashakti, a joined pair. Shakti really unfolded much deeper with shaktipat for me, and at that point it no longer seemed like the TM path was the path forward and it just fell away.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Big Daddy In The Sky and his enlightened helpers
OTOH, I see Judy's writing as very precise, which is appropriate for this forum. Sometimes I agree with her and sometimes I don't. Nonetheless she applies clear and correct logic every time. The deal with Barry is he regularly twists what others have said in order for his arguments to make sense. He also contradicts himself on a regular basis, calling out others, but loudly proclaiming himself immune from any such judgment or comparison. It is immature at best. On a forum like this, presenting clear ideas, and being fair about it, is about all the integrity anyone here has. As a result, he has almost none. I think most here on FFL are aware of that crucial difference between the two of them at this point. During the time I have participated here, I have seen a noticeable shift away from Barry, in favor of Judy. :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@... wrote: On Feb 14, 2011, at 10:46 PM, Joe wrote: Judy, the reason I don't comment on the Judy/Barry wars is that those are the very reason I bail for extended periods of time. All of this angst over who said what, and how many times and the extensive cataloging for the record (what ever the hell that means) is mind numbingly boring to me. I would be willing to bet that it's similarly boring to many of the respondents here at FFL. I mean, read this: Barry even thought Joe was disagreeing with the premise, leaping to agree with Joe without realizing that Joe was agreeing with wayback, who was agreeing with me, and that I agreed with everything both of them said. (Interestingly, of the four of us who participated, Joe's the only one who has refrained from pointing out to Barry that--to put it mildly--he had missed the point.) It's truly mind-numbingly unbelievable that anybody could write the above and fail to see the obsessiveness therein...the above sentences would make no sense except to someone who just knew they were right, and couldn't rest until they were sure they had convinced everybody else of it as well. Not to mention, they are dripping with self-pity. Judy's very life seems to revolve around such insane trivia. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: Absolute Silence
Same reason I had less and less to do with the TMO over the years - I saw established arrogance and corruption. The last TM course I went on was that big Washington DC one about 20 years ago. I was quite excited when it was announced and immediately reserved and paid for a single room for myself. Many weeks later when the course began, I was asked to show up at a large hotel for a room assignment. I got there on time, around 4PM. Finally, after being there six and a half hours, watching rooms being held for Governors who hadn't showed up and other odd things, I was given a shared room in a dormitory on a campus far away, with no apologies. I was completely bummed - not what I wanted or expected, or had paid for. There was no explanation of what happened to my reservation or why, though even at the remote facility, single rooms were still being held for absent Governors. I stayed one night and left the course the next afternoon. Sayonara, and all that. :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: This is all fine and can explain something of how natural law works in the body. Life in the body, of even the awakened. But what of the influence of growing up, culture? Learning manners? Skill-sets of social grace or not. Socialization. Some people obviously do groups better than others. But the range and distribution of getting along anyway is somewhere around the 'golden rule' as mean for most any culture that works, with some outliers either way. Like, I observe that this (a bad-behavior of poor manners) is a large aspect of why people who could meditate in the domes to help with the dome numbers do not in fact go to the domes. There is an evident TM ambiance of bad or rude behavior that has been allowed to rule particularly over places to sit and turf in the domes. A bad up-bringing that has gotten away with itself. Is that TM? Or just a poor moral reasoning that the movement has fostered? A few years ago Korean Airlines (KAL) flight safety was so bad they were being asked to not land at airports in places around the world. The essential problem was their culture. Poor collaboration inside the cockpit cabin by culture. It took a while to figure out what was going on as to why they were so dysfunctional as flight crews. However, it was an essential cultural dysfunction. To change the safety problem KAL in consulting had to bring veteran American pilots from Delta Airlines who literally had to break the Korean culture to get them to communicate effectively inside the cockpits to be able to effectively (safely) fly. It took some work to do but now KAL is flying fine and safe. The domes? The TM-Rajas could take a lesson from KAL in managing the domes. It might even take breaking a culture to get the dome numbers up and sustain them. The TM-Rajas certainly could help with the evident cultural problem of poor behavior that is there in the domes that keeps people away from the domes. JGD, -Buck I survey asking folks all the time if they have current dome badges and whether they go to meditate in the domes(?). An endemic TM problem of rudeness is by far the largest reason that people tend not to go to the domes. There are other practical reasons that people do not make the domes the place they meditate. But a manifest climate of airs and poor behavior by far is the largest reason that folks do not go to the domes with any regularity. TM? Improved moral reasoning? Evidently not. Room for improvement? Evidently so if they would like to get the numbers up. They should might have to break a culture to change things for the better. They've got a bad reputation. The TM-Rajas could change that to change things if they were not oblivious to their problem at hand. Life in the body. JGD, -Buck in FF
Re: [FairfieldLife] The Echo Chamber Effect
On Feb 15, 2011, at 2:22 AM, turquoiseb wrote: If hearing that makes you uptight and makes you think that I am attacking you by saying it, you might want to look into that reaction, and try to figure out where it came from. It sounds a lot like religious fundamentalism to me. While in the west Maharishi's Neovedism may seem left-leaning by our standards, in India Maharishi's programmes were/are associated with their religious right - the immoral majority of caste-based slavery.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Big Daddy In The Sky and his enlightened helpers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: As I see it, what happens in the universe is the sum total of all of the individual actions made by all of the individual sentient beings in it -- no guidance behind it, no Plan behind it, just karma plus free will. I *get off* on the idea of karma plus free will being the Operating System of the universe. So Turq-How did you get introduced to the idea of 'Karma', was it MMY? If so, don't you have something to be grateful for from Maharishi? That knowledge alone may save you from much suffering in life PS. BTW, isn't freewill and Karma a Plan?, and don't the administration of the laws of Karma require 'guidance'?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Big Daddy In The Sky and his enlightened helpers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wgm4u wgm4u@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: As I see it, what happens in the universe is the sum total of all of the individual actions made by all of the individual sentient beings in it -- no guidance behind it, no Plan behind it, just karma plus free will. I *get off* on the idea of karma plus free will being the Operating System of the universe. So Turq-How did you get introduced to the idea of 'Karma', was it MMY? Nope. I'd been reading about karma for years before I ever met -- or heard of -- Maharishi. If so, don't you have something to be grateful for from Maharishi? That knowledge alone may save you from much suffering in life I have a few things I'm grateful to him for, and have said them on this forum numerous times. None of them were ever valuable enough to save me from much suffering in this life. :-) PS. BTW, isn't freewill and Karma a Plan? Absolutely not. It is the complete opposite of a Plan. ...and don't the administration of the laws of Karma require 'guidance'? Not at all. In my view karma is pure physics -- every action has an equal and opposite reaction -- admin- istered on a purely physical level automatically as a kind of Operating System for a universe that was never created, and in fact is and always will be eternal. Many people haven't really thought through karma. Free will *has* to coexist with karma, or there would be no possibility of ever changing. You do something in the past, and the reverberations of that action affect you in the present. But they don't *control* your present; they are merely an influence on it. You could allow the samskaras from the past to influence you, and just do the same old same old again, but you don't have to. At any moment you could Just say no and do something else. It's the something else that allows for spiritual growth and evolution and spiritual progress.
[FairfieldLife] Checking and Auditing merged (was: Re: Absolute Silence)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: To change the safety problem KAL in consulting had to bring veteran American pilots from Delta Airlines who literally had to break the Korean culture to get them to communicate effectively inside the cockpits to be able to effectively (safely) fly. It took some work to do but now KAL is flying fine and safe. The domes? The TM-Rajas could take a lesson from KAL in managing the domes. It might even take breaking a culture to get the dome numbers up and sustain them. The TM-Rajas certainly could help with the evident cultural problem of poor behavior that is there in the domes that keeps people away from the domes. JGD, -Buck Taking the recent collaboration between Nokia and M$ as an example, Co$ and the TMO recently merged. Hereby the cultural problem, Buck mentioned just above could be solved. Ethics officers of the Co$ are now handling the dome applications to raise the numbers for the IA course. Innovative procedures are introduced. Here is a dialog between a Co$ ethics officer and an outspoken resistent applicant, an actual 1.1 Hello, Mr Smith, we are here to reconsider your Dome application, I am your ethics officer, of the C o S. C o S? What does the Church of scientology have to do with the transcendental meditation? Well, Mr. smith, we recently merged. In this way we could reduce the organizational overload. But, excuse me, Transcendental meditation and scientology are not really the same. How could these organizations merge? Well, it's globalization. We all have to adapt to the new times, and adjust our lives accordingly. We view scientology and transcendental meditation as independent branches of our business operations, each having a different customer base, and slightly different goals. Yet there is also much in common. Besides that, we think that certain procedures of each path can be really complementary to each other. This leads us to new synergistic solutions. In this regard, we are now also able to reconsider your application for attendance of the flying sessions in the domes. Well, that is nice indeed. But before we can reconsider your application, we have to apply some auditing run-downs, to allow us to root out the problems, that have led to your rejection. What you are seeing in front of you are two metal bars of an e-meter. Looks like a lie detector to me. I am not going to touch these bars! Well, even if you don't touch these bars, modern technology is advanced enough, that they will still transmit data, due to its strong electro-magnetic field. We start the auditing now. Just feel your body and be relaxed. Do not try to control your thoughts. Do you feel any uncomfortable thoughts coming up? Yes, I feel that the whole situation here is uncomfortable indeed. Let's go back in time. What was the reason you think you were rejected, last time you were here? Well, I was told I was rejected because of visiting saints. I notice the e-meter reacts strongly to this word saints. I do feel there is a major blockage there. Just repeat the word saint, like a mantra. Like this: saint, saint, saint. Saint, saint, saint, saint. Stop. The e-meter still reacts strong. It looks like you are trying to hide something here. Saint seems to be like a cover up. Any names? What is the name of the saint you saw last? Swami X Ananda. When did you see him last? Summer last year when he was on his world tour. Now recall this situation, repeating Swami X, Swami X, Swami X. Swami X, Swami X, Swami X, Swami X, Swami X, Swami X. The e-meter still reacts. Please go further back in time to recall a similar situation. Any names? Yes, Mata Y, very impressive darshan, blazing lights and all. When did you see her? In spring last year. Just repeat Mata Y, Swami X, Mata Y, Swami x, innocent, like a mantra. Mata Y, Swami X, Mata Y, Swami x,Mata Y, Swami X, Mata Y, Swami X, Mata Y, Swami X, Mata Y, Swami X, How long do I have to do this? It is a strong blockage you are having here, so you have to continue. Mata Y, Swami X, Mata Y, Swami X, Mata Y, Swami X, Mata Y, Don't stop, just continue. Mata Y, Swami X, Mata Y, Swami X, no I don't like it any more. The e-meter reacts strong here. Just repeat: Swami X, Mata Y, I don't like it. Swami X, Mata Y, I don't like it. Swami X, Mata Y, I don't like it Swami X, Mata Y, Swami X, Mata Y, I don't like it. Say: I don't like it. No, no, no. Say Swami X, Mata Y, Swami X, Mata Y, no no no. Swami X, Mata Y, Swami X, Mata Y, No, no, I don't do that! Good, you are making progress. But instead of: I don't do it, say: I don't like them. No, no, no way. They where very helpfull. I like them both. I like Swami X, and mata Y. Ouch. Here is the resistance we have to overcome. You have fallen back again: Just say No, No No. For what? To overcome your mental restistance. Now sit straight, and just feel the body! Close
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Big Daddy In The Sky and his enlightened helpers
On Feb 15, 2011, at 10:00 AM, wgm4u wrote: So Turq-How did you get introduced to the idea of 'Karma', was it MMY? If so, don't you have something to be grateful for from Maharishi? That knowledge alone may save you from much suffering in life PS. BTW, isn't freewill and Karma a Plan?, and don't the administration of the laws of Karma require 'guidance'? Actually I don't recall MMY giving a good explanation of the different types of karma anywhere. Can you cite source?
[FairfieldLife] Talk about karma... (Re: Big Daddy In The Sky and his enlightened helpers)
PALM COAST, Fla. The Dalai Lama's nephew was killed along a Florida coastal highway during one of his long treks to bring awareness to the Tibetan struggle for independence from China, officials said. Jigme K. Norbu was hit after dark Monday on the side of the unlit highway by an SUV. A Highway Patrol accident report said Norbu, 45, was walking on the white line in the same direction as traffic, on the southbound side of a state highway that runs the length of the state's Atlantic coast. The driver, 31-year-old Keith R. O'Dell of Palm Coast, was not charged. He and a passenger, his 5-year-old son, were not injured. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Feb 15, 2011, at 10:00 AM, wgm4u wrote: So Turq-How did you get introduced to the idea of 'Karma', was it MMY? If so, don't you have something to be grateful for from Maharishi? That knowledge alone may save you from much suffering in life PS. BTW, isn't freewill and Karma a Plan?, and don't the administration of the laws of Karma require 'guidance'? Actually I don't recall MMY giving a good explanation of the different types of karma anywhere. Can you cite source?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Big Daddy In The Sky and his enlightened helpers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: ...and don't the administration of the laws of Karma require 'guidance'? Not at all. In my view karma is pure physics -- every action has an equal and opposite reaction -- admin- istered on a purely physical level automatically as a kind of Operating System for a universe that was never created, and in fact is and always will be eternal. Well, you espouse Eastern Philosophy very well, as they say, we are punished BY our sins, not FOR our sins. And, like you say, every action has an equal an opposite reaction (I wonder who devised that ingenious idea)? Many people haven't really thought through karma. Free will *has* to coexist with karma, or there would be no possibility of ever changing. You do something in the past, and the reverberations of that action affect you in the present. But they don't *control* your present; they are merely an influence on it. You could allow the samskaras from the past to influence you, and just do the same old same old again, but you don't have to. At any moment you could Just say no and do something else. It's the something else that allows for spiritual growth and evolution and spiritual progress. Agreed
[FairfieldLife] Re: Big Daddy In The Sky and his enlightened helpers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: Actually I don't recall MMY giving a good explanation of the different types of karma anywhere. Can you cite source? You're right, I don't think he ever broke it down into the classical system of Kriyaman, Sanchit and Prarabda, but I was only commenting on the general principle of Karma, not the specifics, FWIW. Karma is primarily of four kinds : (Web Search) 1. Sanchita Karma (Sum Total Karma or Accumulated actions or the Arrows in the Quiver) 2. Praarabdha Karma (Fructifying Karma or Actions began; set in motion or Arrows in Flight) 3. Kriyamana Karma (Instant, Current Karma or Being made or Arrows in Hand) 4. Aagami Karma (Future Karma)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Big Daddy In The Sky and his enlightened helpers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Feb 15, 2011, at 5:34 AM, blusc0ut wrote: For me, in my experience it is all about shakti. And it is not based on some kind of more or less abstract reflection/ justification. I came up with this recognition more than 20 years ago. I realized there were oddities / discrepancies between what a certain saint/master said at that time, and the actual action of shakti which worked along with it, and which was unmistakeable for me. Through several such incidents, I came to the conclusion, that the shakti/energy would work on it's own. The shakti was contageous (still is). It actually brought about some of the biggest, most transformative experiences of my life. In fact I might have probably still be in TM, if it wasn't for that. Bingo. My meditation practice, it's efficacy, it' playing out are all 'me and my shakti' -- and if I'm lucky no me, no her: mahashakti, a joined pair. Exactly! Shakti really unfolded much deeper with shaktipat for me, and at that point it no longer seemed like the TM path was the path forward and it just fell away. Right. I still kept it going for a while, nominally you could say, because of the movement environment I was in. I would still think the mantra and sutra's, but my meditations were never the same any more. It is actually not possible for me to meditate in the same way as I used to before. Anyway, it didn't make any diference, what I did. I am also reminded of somebody from batgap here, Saronjini or something, who said, that she already thought she might have brain cancer, because of the strong currents in the top brain centre. Well, I can relate to that, I thought the same.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Big Daddy In The Sky and his enlightened helpers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: For me, in my experience it is all about shakti. And it is not based on some kind of more or less abstract reflection/justification. I came up with this recognition more than 20 years ago. I realized there were oddities / discrepancies between what a certain saint/master said at that time, and the actual action of shakti which worked along with it, and which was unmistakeable for me. I have no problem with this, as long as you recognize that unmistakable to me doth not equate to fact, but is the expression of a purely subjective experience. It's a model that heed me to make sense of this particular situation. It worked for me, that is all. And it allowed me to live with this situation without having to be a fundamentalist, or a TB of any sort. For others it may be totally irrelevant. Through several such incidents, I came to the conclusion, that the shakti/energy would work on it's own. The shakti was contageous (still is). It actually brought about some of the biggest, most transformative experiences of my life. In fact I might have probably still be in TM, if it wasn't for that. I realized, that this energy was certainly always connected with this person /master, but it wasn't always clear if the master knew about it. At times certainly he knew, at other times he didn't seem to. There were sometimes seeming contradictions between the two. So I came to this conclusion: there is this power, which I percieve, which works for the good, and there were at the same time things this master said which I didn't like (and sometimes also didn't materialize). I also have to say, there was nothing grave in this discrepancies, much of it was depending on my own personality, no misuse or big things. I also have to say, that this person was well aware of having a normal human personality, and not being a model of perfection. Cool, I guess. It's as good an explanation as any, based on your subjective experience and interpretation of it. I appreciate that you aren't presenting it as Truth or the *only* way to explain things. So many do.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Absolute Silence
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, blusc0ut no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, blusc0ut no_reply@ wrote: snip It's debatable though, if this is *always* the case, just think of the Judith book, how would you interpret it in the same light? You could argue that it drives home the very point we're agreeing about, liberating us from the notion that enlightenment means perfect behavior by human standards. That gives us permission, as wayback suggested, to strongly disapprove of his behavior without assuming it means he wasn't enlightened. Well, it's a good way to look at it at least. And a good conclusion to make. One of many possible scenarios. You pays your money and you takes your choice. You'll never know if you made the right pick, or even if any of the choices you can imagine were right. It's all inscrutable, or unfathomable (including to the enlightened). It's all an aspect of what I was talking about earlier, that when you take any authentic teaching about Unity as far as it will go, it just sort of dissolves in paradox and infinite regress, and there you are walking the tightrope without a net, just as you were before you ever heard about enlightenment. Riiight. And it needs courage to face it, from either side I mean. It's easy to point your finger and say, this is a justification of everything, a mere sophistry, as Turq says, as it is just as easy to dismiss it as Nabby does and say, well he knew it all along, he intentionally did it that way, or simply deny such acts, like the Judith book. Personally I don't like if people cannot change viewpoints. The mind has to be fluid IMO. IOW, you can't be a True Believer, because you know that it all, ALL can be wrong, and I agree, that you have to make your own judgements, go by your own sense of what is right and wrong, IN ANY GIVEN SITUATION, because your life situation may vary, and your relationship to a guru may vary. In most cases, this argument, is a retrospect argument, a retrospect view on things, as I see it. The bottom-line is, go by what you think is right, do what corresponds to your ethical standard, but keep your mind fluid at the same time. Exactly. All this agreement is a little scary. ;-) And exiting
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TM Learning Process, or The Road To Fundamentalism
Interesting to read through this list in light of all the comments about Scientology recentlyin fact you could sub out Scientology terms and LRH for MMY in much of this without breaking a sweat, especially the newer, better, we-really-mean-it-this-time-this-is-THE-one-you-need next course bit. As for looking into other teachers or reading other books, one of my earliest memories of seeing MMY is hearing his man who digs many holes never finds water story. Sure enough, when I became a TM teacher, I trotted this story out whenever I was asked about other paths. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: [ Caveat: What follows is my opinion, and in fact my considered opinion, arrived at after decades of being part of the TMO from the inside and observing it and its members from the outside. You are well within your rights to believe something else, because after all, it is nothing BUT opinion. But so is what you believe. ] I figured that, on the heels of my Echo Chamber Effect post, I should delineate some of the ways in which I think TMers have, in fact, been indoctrinated to believe certain things, disbelieve others, and adopt a funda- mentalist defensive stance towards the former and an offensive, attack mode stance towards the latter. This is how I view the TM Learning Process, after having participated in it and observed it for 44 years: 1. You are taught to meditate, having been pre-taught exactly what is going to happen when you meditate, and how you should interpret what happens. Periods of thought stopping are not just thought stopping; they are transcendence, merging with the Home Of All Know- ledge, entering into a higher state of consciousness. 2. Your innocent experience of TM (which is anything but) is then followed up by three nights of indoctrin- ation into *more* of what your experience 'really' means and how to interpret it. You are told that not only is each meditation an experience of some mystical universal field of consciousness, doing it regularly is your only real way to eventually experience an even higher state of consciousness, enlightenment. You are told what enlightenment means, and told that it is the highest goal anyone could ever aspire to. 3. In the three nights of checking, and every time you walk into a TM center after that, you are encouraged to learn more. That is, you are encouraged to attend hour after hour of lectures on -- essentially -- Hindu thought and theories, sanitized for your protection by describing them as Vedic thought. At no point are any of these concepts presented *as* theories; they are presented as Truth, the highest knowledge avail- able on the planet. 4. After a few of these advanced lectures, you are encouraged to attend residence courses, during which you round (meditate so often that you are considered so spaced out and such a potential danger to yourself and others that you are not allowed to leave the facility in which the residence course is being held). You are also forced to sit in front of TVs and watch hours and hours of additional indoctrination on Hindu thought and concepts, many of them delivered by genuflect Maharishi Himself. 5. By putting Maharishi Himself in scare quotes, I am hoping to capture the way that MMY is presented to new students. That is, as the ultimate authority, an enlightened being whose every word reflects the Truth about the world and how it works. Even if it's not expressed in words, the deference and sense of obeis- ance that the TM teachers feel towards him is conveyed subconsciously to the students, so much so that when they first have an opportunity to meet him, they cannot conceive of doing so except in the accepted manner -- standing in a line and deferentially offer- ing him a flower. By the time they actually do meet him, they can no longer even conceive of *challenging* any of the things he says; the lesson has been driven home to them by this time that such behavior is inappropriate and disrespectful. If Maharishi says it, it's not only true, but Truth. 6. Then (at least in the past), if you want to dive further into the TM knowledge, you have to take SCI. Which is basically the equivalent of being forced to sit in front of hours and hours and hours of the most boring and pretentious drivel you have ever seen on television, while pretending that it isn't boring. More indoctrination into Just STFU and let the waves of Ultimate Truth wash over you. 7. All along the way, TM is never once presented as just another spiritual path; it is always presented as The Best such path, the highest path. The TM teachers, in fact, respond to questions about other paths (including the path taught by the real Shank- aracharya tradition MMY comes from) by putting them down, as they were taught to do on their TTCs. 8. Other sources of information about meditation or the
[FairfieldLife] Re: Absolute Silence
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: IOW, you can't be a True Believer, because you know that it all, ALL can be wrong, and I agree, that you have to make your own judgements, go by your own sense of what is right and wrong, IN ANY GIVEN SITUATION, because your life situation may vary, and your relationship to a guru may vary. The thing is, the dogma of many spiritual organizations says that this is heresy. Exactly. On this very forum we have had people claim that what the guru does is always perfect, and what he tells you to do or not do is always perfect, and to do anything other than what he tells you to (let alone doubt or criticize him) is a grievous sin that'll land your ass in Hell. Well, not my belief. I guess you can idealize a person who is far away, the further away in time and space, the more you can idealize a person. But as you say, a guy is just a guy, and a gal is just a gal. Also enlightened people have human personalities, incuding weaknesses and mistakes. Even Avatars have (if you believe they exist). But, as I mentioned in previous post, to me, it is the shakti that is important. The shakti has its own way, that is my opinion. One word of Maharishi, the absolute on the move, that's Mahashakti. snip rest I agree with
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Big Daddy In The Sky and his enlightened helpers
On Feb 15, 2011, at 10:53 AM, blusc0ut wrote: I am also reminded of somebody from batgap here, Saronjini or something, who said, that she already thought she might have brain cancer, because of the strong currents in the top brain centre. Well, I can relate to that, I thought the same. I used to have such loud buzzing sounds where the shakti entered the skull, I'd actually stop meditating, go outside and look around to see if I'd disturbed any of my neighbors! Of course no one else was hearing it, but it sounded like it was permeating the entire neighborhood.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Big Daddy In The Sky and his enlightened helpers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, blusc0ut no_reply@... wrote: It's a model that heed* me to make sense of this particular situation. It worked for me, that is all. And it allowed me to live with this situation without having to be a fundamentalist, or a TB of any sort. For others it may be totally irrelevant. *helped
[FairfieldLife] Re: Absolute Silence
And did you demand your money back? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@... wrote: Same reason I had less and less to do with the TMO over the years - I saw established arrogance and corruption. The last TM course I went on was that big Washington DC one about 20 years ago. I was quite excited when it was announced and immediately reserved and paid for a single room for myself. Many weeks later when the course began, I was asked to show up at a large hotel for a room assignment. I got there on time, around 4PM. Finally, after being there six and a half hours, watching rooms being held for Governors who hadn't showed up and other odd things, I was given a shared room in a dormitory on a campus far away, with no apologies. I was completely bummed - not what I wanted or expected, or had paid for. There was no explanation of what happened to my reservation or why, though even at the remote facility, single rooms were still being held for absent Governors. I stayed one night and left the course the next afternoon. Sayonara, and all that. :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: This is all fine and can explain something of how natural law works in the body. Life in the body, of even the awakened. But what of the influence of growing up, culture? Learning manners? Skill-sets of social grace or not. Socialization. Some people obviously do groups better than others. But the range and distribution of getting along anyway is somewhere around the 'golden rule' as mean for most any culture that works, with some outliers either way. Like, I observe that this (a bad-behavior of poor manners) is a large aspect of why people who could meditate in the domes to help with the dome numbers do not in fact go to the domes. There is an evident TM ambiance of bad or rude behavior that has been allowed to rule particularly over places to sit and turf in the domes. A bad up-bringing that has gotten away with itself. Is that TM? Or just a poor moral reasoning that the movement has fostered? A few years ago Korean Airlines (KAL) flight safety was so bad they were being asked to not land at airports in places around the world. The essential problem was their culture. Poor collaboration inside the cockpit cabin by culture. It took a while to figure out what was going on as to why they were so dysfunctional as flight crews. However, it was an essential cultural dysfunction. To change the safety problem KAL in consulting had to bring veteran American pilots from Delta Airlines who literally had to break the Korean culture to get them to communicate effectively inside the cockpits to be able to effectively (safely) fly. It took some work to do but now KAL is flying fine and safe. The domes? The TM-Rajas could take a lesson from KAL in managing the domes. It might even take breaking a culture to get the dome numbers up and sustain them. The TM-Rajas certainly could help with the evident cultural problem of poor behavior that is there in the domes that keeps people away from the domes. JGD, -Buck I survey asking folks all the time if they have current dome badges and whether they go to meditate in the domes(?). An endemic TM problem of rudeness is by far the largest reason that people tend not to go to the domes. There are other practical reasons that people do not make the domes the place they meditate. But a manifest climate of airs and poor behavior by far is the largest reason that folks do not go to the domes with any regularity. TM? Improved moral reasoning? Evidently not. Room for improvement? Evidently so if they would like to get the numbers up. They should might have to break a culture to change things for the better. They've got a bad reputation. The TM-Rajas could change that to change things if they were not oblivious to their problem at hand. Life in the body. JGD, -Buck in FF
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TM Learning Process, or The Road To Fundamentalism
What would you actually recommend to a person wanting to learn meditation? Do you recommend a book? Anything of Rama? I think you said that you wouldn't need to require personal instruction or an elaborated course. I sometimes meet people, and I cannot follow them up, they ask me for advise how to meditate. (I had this Russian lady driving to the airport yesterday). I may even initiate somebody TM style again, after so many years, some friend asked me for it, so I guess I will probably do it, without money, org, and leaving all dogma aside. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: [ Caveat: What follows is my opinion, and in fact my considered opinion, arrived at after decades of being part of the TMO from the inside and observing it and its members from the outside. You are well within your rights to believe something else, because after all, it is nothing BUT opinion. But so is what you believe. ] I figured that, on the heels of my Echo Chamber Effect post, I should delineate some of the ways in which I think TMers have, in fact, been indoctrinated to believe certain things, disbelieve others, and adopt a funda- mentalist defensive stance towards the former and an offensive, attack mode stance towards the latter. This is how I view the TM Learning Process, after having participated in it and observed it for 44 years: 1. You are taught to meditate, having been pre-taught exactly what is going to happen when you meditate, and how you should interpret what happens. Periods of thought stopping are not just thought stopping; they are transcendence, merging with the Home Of All Know- ledge, entering into a higher state of consciousness. 2. Your innocent experience of TM (which is anything but) is then followed up by three nights of indoctrin- ation into *more* of what your experience 'really' means and how to interpret it. You are told that not only is each meditation an experience of some mystical universal field of consciousness, doing it regularly is your only real way to eventually experience an even higher state of consciousness, enlightenment. You are told what enlightenment means, and told that it is the highest goal anyone could ever aspire to. 3. In the three nights of checking, and every time you walk into a TM center after that, you are encouraged to learn more. That is, you are encouraged to attend hour after hour of lectures on -- essentially -- Hindu thought and theories, sanitized for your protection by describing them as Vedic thought. At no point are any of these concepts presented *as* theories; they are presented as Truth, the highest knowledge avail- able on the planet. 4. After a few of these advanced lectures, you are encouraged to attend residence courses, during which you round (meditate so often that you are considered so spaced out and such a potential danger to yourself and others that you are not allowed to leave the facility in which the residence course is being held). You are also forced to sit in front of TVs and watch hours and hours of additional indoctrination on Hindu thought and concepts, many of them delivered by genuflect Maharishi Himself. 5. By putting Maharishi Himself in scare quotes, I am hoping to capture the way that MMY is presented to new students. That is, as the ultimate authority, an enlightened being whose every word reflects the Truth about the world and how it works. Even if it's not expressed in words, the deference and sense of obeis- ance that the TM teachers feel towards him is conveyed subconsciously to the students, so much so that when they first have an opportunity to meet him, they cannot conceive of doing so except in the accepted manner -- standing in a line and deferentially offer- ing him a flower. By the time they actually do meet him, they can no longer even conceive of *challenging* any of the things he says; the lesson has been driven home to them by this time that such behavior is inappropriate and disrespectful. If Maharishi says it, it's not only true, but Truth. 6. Then (at least in the past), if you want to dive further into the TM knowledge, you have to take SCI. Which is basically the equivalent of being forced to sit in front of hours and hours and hours of the most boring and pretentious drivel you have ever seen on television, while pretending that it isn't boring. More indoctrination into Just STFU and let the waves of Ultimate Truth wash over you. 7. All along the way, TM is never once presented as just another spiritual path; it is always presented as The Best such path, the highest path. The TM teachers, in fact, respond to questions about other paths (including the path taught by the real Shank- aracharya tradition MMY comes from) by putting them down, as they were taught to do on their TTCs. 8. Other sources of information about meditation or the spiritual path are
[FairfieldLife] The three gunas idea, expressed in pseudocode
Just as a followup, and hopefully the last word on the subject from my side, I want to try to clarify why I got involved in the recent discussion here. It was to point out that the whole thing was based on some- thing assumed to be true, and that this assumption is not to be assumed. Here's how I would present Judy's position, expressed in computer language-like pseudocode: IF A (the three gunas control all actions, and no one, including Maharishi is the doer of any of these actions, merely puppets carrying them out.) THEN B (Maharishi might have been consciously aware that each of his actions was the doing of the three gunas, and thus a willing participant in those actions.) OR C (Maharishi might have been completely unaware of the true, inner, three gunas-directed nature of his own actions, but did what he was supposed to do anyway, because he was so enlightened and all.) THEREFORE Z (No harm, no foul either way. Maharishi always did the right thing because he had no choice; the three gunas really did everything. He's off the hook for anything we perceive as incorrect behavior because that's merely our limited per- ception of his actions, which weren't really his at all but the actions of the three gunas.) BZT. DOES NOT COMPILE, BECAUSE A IS NOT A VALID VARIABLE. IT HAS NOT BEEN DECLARED AS ABSOLUTE. What Judy's argument boils down to is an appeal to those who believe that A is not only true, but Truth. It is neither. It is a theory, thought up in the Dark Ages of Vedic thought to explain How The Universe Works. Judy clearly believes that A is true. Thus it never occurred to her that the rest of her argument falls apart if it *isn't* true. If it *isn't* true, and Maharishi had free will, then both B and C become irrelevancies, and Z as well. Her argument was pitched at people she expected to never question whether A was true. It was an attempt to play off of the shared assumption that A is true, and force a conclu- sion that whatever Maharishi's actions -- or our perceptions of them -- they were not his responsibility because neither he nor we have any responsibility for *any* of our actions. They are not our actions at all; they're the actions of the three gunas. Bzzzt. Not everyone believes this. I, for one, do not. I think that the three gunas do it all theory is full of crap, and that each of us very much do the things that we do. And we have full respons- iblity for them, and for their outcomes. I completely *understand* why some would prefer to believe in the three gunas do it all theory. It involves a complete abdication of responsibility for one's actions. No matter what we do, we get off scot-free because we don't really do them at all -- the three gunas do everything, with us as mere puppets. Anyone who has watched the dance Judy does to avoid admit- ting that she made a mistake about anything knows why she wants to believe this. :-) Others here probably believe it for other reasons, including the reason they believe so many other things: Maharishi said it, therefore it is true. Or I was told that it's in the Vedas, so it's not only true, it's Truth. I cry bullshit. A is *not* Truth. It's a THEORY about How The Universe Works, and no better or higher or more true than any other theory. In fact, to believe that A *is* true, you have to completely ignore your own daily perceptions of your own actions, and the perception that you do indeed have free will, and a say in what you do, and how you do it. Talk about cognitive dissonance -- perceiving one thing, but believing another. I even understand why many might believe that A is true, based on their own subjective experiences, fleeting or long-term. There is a brain switch that, when flipped (by drugs, by being probed by an electrode, as a result of years of meditation, what- ever) puts the brain into a mode in which one *perceives* that one is not the doer. Actions seem to be happening all on their own, with any sense of oneself limited to being a witness to them happening. I do not deny that this brain switch can be flipped and that people can experience this subjectively; been there, done that. But the fact that we experienced this way of perceiving our own actions subjectively DOES NOT MAKE IT SO. It's Just Another Subjective Experience. Many in the TMO believe that when this brain switch flips on, they have achieved a higher state of consciousness, a higher level of functioning and perception. Many believe that this is the ultimate level of functioning and perception, and that we should all aspire to it. Bzzzt. Again, I don't believe this. I think it is Just Another Subjective Experience, no higher or better or
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TM Learning Process, or The Road To Fundamentalism
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, blusc0ut no_reply@... wrote: What would you actually recommend to a person wanting to learn meditation? Do you recommend a book? Anything of Rama? Nothing from Rama, nothing from Maharishi. If I say anything at all, it's to refer them to a couple of groups I've run across that charge very little or nothing and do absolutely nothing to rope the people they teach into their organizations. I think you said that you wouldn't need to require personal instruction or an elaborated course. I think the most I've said on that subject may be that I've learned valuable meditation techniques sitting in a large room with a lot of people. They worked fine. No discernible difference between them and personal instruction. I sometimes meet people, and I cannot follow them up, they ask me for advise how to meditate. (I had this Russian lady driving to the airport yesterday). I tend to give them advice merely on what to look for in the groups they investigate on their own, and what to be wary of, and then tell them to make their own decisions. I may even initiate somebody TM style again, after so many years, some friend asked me for it, so I guess I will probably do it, without money, org, and leaving all dogma aside. I would never do this, for many reasons. But you are certainly welcome to, if you feel comfortable doing so. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: [ Caveat: What follows is my opinion, and in fact my considered opinion, arrived at after decades of being part of the TMO from the inside and observing it and its members from the outside. You are well within your rights to believe something else, because after all, it is nothing BUT opinion. But so is what you believe. ] I figured that, on the heels of my Echo Chamber Effect post, I should delineate some of the ways in which I think TMers have, in fact, been indoctrinated to believe certain things, disbelieve others, and adopt a funda- mentalist defensive stance towards the former and an offensive, attack mode stance towards the latter. This is how I view the TM Learning Process, after having participated in it and observed it for 44 years: 1. You are taught to meditate, having been pre-taught exactly what is going to happen when you meditate, and how you should interpret what happens. Periods of thought stopping are not just thought stopping; they are transcendence, merging with the Home Of All Know- ledge, entering into a higher state of consciousness. 2. Your innocent experience of TM (which is anything but) is then followed up by three nights of indoctrin- ation into *more* of what your experience 'really' means and how to interpret it. You are told that not only is each meditation an experience of some mystical universal field of consciousness, doing it regularly is your only real way to eventually experience an even higher state of consciousness, enlightenment. You are told what enlightenment means, and told that it is the highest goal anyone could ever aspire to. 3. In the three nights of checking, and every time you walk into a TM center after that, you are encouraged to learn more. That is, you are encouraged to attend hour after hour of lectures on -- essentially -- Hindu thought and theories, sanitized for your protection by describing them as Vedic thought. At no point are any of these concepts presented *as* theories; they are presented as Truth, the highest knowledge avail- able on the planet. 4. After a few of these advanced lectures, you are encouraged to attend residence courses, during which you round (meditate so often that you are considered so spaced out and such a potential danger to yourself and others that you are not allowed to leave the facility in which the residence course is being held). You are also forced to sit in front of TVs and watch hours and hours of additional indoctrination on Hindu thought and concepts, many of them delivered by genuflect Maharishi Himself. 5. By putting Maharishi Himself in scare quotes, I am hoping to capture the way that MMY is presented to new students. That is, as the ultimate authority, an enlightened being whose every word reflects the Truth about the world and how it works. Even if it's not expressed in words, the deference and sense of obeis- ance that the TM teachers feel towards him is conveyed subconsciously to the students, so much so that when they first have an opportunity to meet him, they cannot conceive of doing so except in the accepted manner -- standing in a line and deferentially offer- ing him a flower. By the time they actually do meet him, they can no longer even conceive of *challenging* any of the things he says; the lesson has been driven home to them by this time that such behavior is inappropriate and disrespectful. If
Re: [FairfieldLife] Checking and Auditing merged (was: Re: Absolute Silence) [1 Attachment]
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 9:11 AM, blusc0ut no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:
[FairfieldLife] Re: Big Daddy In The Sky and his enlightened helpers
turquoiseb: At any moment you could and do something else... How are you going to just say Just say no to the force of gravity? Karma means action and reaction - are you thinking that there is a mental component to karma? Free will *has* to coexist with karma, or there would be no possibility of ever changing. How could someone have free will yet be bound by karma? Either you are free or you are bound. If free then you have no need for a spiritual technique; if bound you need to have a yoga that can help you free yourself You cannot have free will, and be at the same time, bound. Nobody can avoid the effects of gravity so they can levitate. What are you going to do: Yell out while standing at the top of a cliff, I will fly! and then jump off? Maybe Turq should think about what it means when he uses a Sanskrit term like 'karma' and 'free will'. Go figure. As I see it, what happens in the universe is the sum total of all of the individual actions made by all of the individual sentient beings in it -- no guidance behind it, no Plan behind it, just karma plus free will. I *get off* on the idea of karma plus free will being the Operating System of the universe. So Turq-How did you get introduced to the idea of 'Karma', was it MMY? Nope. I'd been reading about karma for years before I ever met -- or heard of -- Maharishi. If so, don't you have something to be grateful for from Maharishi? That knowledge alone may save you from much suffering in life I have a few things I'm grateful to him for, and have said them on this forum numerous times. None of them were ever valuable enough to save me from much suffering in this life. :-) PS. BTW, isn't freewill and Karma a Plan? Absolutely not. It is the complete opposite of a Plan. ...and don't the administration of the laws of Karma require 'guidance'? Not at all. In my view karma is pure physics -- every action has an equal and opposite reaction -- admin- istered on a purely physical level automatically as a kind of Operating System for a universe that was never created, and in fact is and always will be eternal. Many people haven't really thought through karma. Free will *has* to coexist with karma, or there would be no possibility of ever changing. You do something in the past, and the reverberations of that action affect you in the present. But they don't *control* your present; they are merely an influence on it. You could allow the samskaras from the past to influence you, and just do the same old same old again, but you don't have to. At any moment you could Just say no and do something else. It's the something else that allows for spiritual growth and evolution and spiritual progress.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Big Daddy In The Sky and his enlightened helpers
PS. BTW, isn't freewill and Karma a Plan?, and don't the administration of the laws of Karma require 'guidance'? Vaj: Actually I don't recall MMY giving a good explanation of the different types of karma anywhere. Can you cite source? Almost the entire MMY commentary on Bhagavad Gita is an explanation of karma, which is the central theme of the Gita: Arjuna's struggle with action or non-action at the Battle of Kurukshetra. One who sees inaction in action, and action in inaction, is intelligent among men, and he is in the transcendental position, although engaged in all sorts of activities. (BG 4: 18). http://www.asitis.com/4/18.html
[FairfieldLife] Checking and Auditing merged (was: Re: Absolute Silence)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall thomas.pall@... wrote: On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 9:11 AM, blusc0ut no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Hilarious, how did you do it? Really cool. I especially like the part where it says: If Microsoft can make a bid for scientology..
[FairfieldLife] Re: The status of Charlie Lutes
The memory and influence of MMY in the world will fade out, tending to a few digital bits in some Wiki; as his supporters gradually die off. Joe: Which doesn't bode well for WillyTex's memory and influence in the world, does itseeing as how MMY actually did do something in the world, and poor Willy is just a troll... Well, I guess Joe does sometimes defend MMY, but Joe is consistent in bashing Willytex, just like Barry, so in that regard, Joe ALWAYS defends Barry. Go figure. Most of Joe's posts on FFL are attempts to defend Barry against Judy, because they are both the MMY-bashers on this group. It would be a lot easier to find one of two of Joe's posts that did NOT defend Barry and that support Judy.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Big Daddy In The Sky and his enlightened helpers
On Feb 15, 2011, at 12:33 PM, WillyTex wrote: PS. BTW, isn't freewill and Karma a Plan?, and don't the administration of the laws of Karma require 'guidance'? Vaj: Actually I don't recall MMY giving a good explanation of the different types of karma anywhere. Can you cite source? Almost the entire MMY commentary on Bhagavad Gita is an explanation of karma, which is the central theme of the Gita: Arjuna's struggle with action or non-action at the Battle of Kurukshetra. Amazing one could blather on for so long and show so little wisdom on karma. What's up with that?
[FairfieldLife] Re: ObamaBudget: War on the Poor
With my plan, which is to create good paying jobs for everyone, people would pay next to zero income tax, and what they pay would be a flat tax that is equal and fair for everyone. Bhairitu: So you advocate a social jobs program like FDR had? No, free enterprise system. And a flat tax is disproportionate for lower wage earners. So, you're thinking that 2% of wage earners would pay the federal income tax for the remaining 98% of U.S. wage earners? Screw that! What happened to equality spelled out in the U.S. Constitution? I am opposed to federal and state income taxation, but if everyone paid a flat and equal tax, I would pay my share. Why won't you pay your fair share of federal income tax? You probably get an income tax refund. Go figure.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Big Daddy In The Sky and his enlightened helpers
Actually I don't recall MMY giving a good explanation of the different types of karma anywhere. Can you cite source? Almost the entire MMY commentary on Bhagavad Gita is an explanation of karma, which is the central theme of the Gita: Arjuna's struggle with action or non-action at the Battle of Kurukshetra. Vaj: Amazing one could blather on for so long and show so little wisdom on karma. This is just blatant harassment; everyone knows that the Hindu explanation of karma is contained in the Bhagavad Gita! What's amazing is your blather about not having read the Gita comments by MMY and so you think I have little wisdom on karma for citing the obvious. Go figure. What's up with that? You are supposed to read the book BEFORE you post your comments. 'On the Bhagavad-Gita : A New Translation and Commentary' By Maharishi Mahesh Yogi Penguin, 1990 http://tinyurl.com/4jnb32q One who sees inaction in action, and action in inaction, is intelligent among men, and he is in the transcendental position, although engaged in all sorts of activities. (BG 4: 18). http://www.asitis.com/4/18.html
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Absolute Silence
On Feb 15, 2011, at 7:25 AM, whynotnow7 wrote: Same reason I had less and less to do with the TMO over the years - I saw established arrogance and corruption. The last TM course I went on was that big Washington DC one about 20 years ago. Which was right when I was leaving DC and moving here~~ no interest in going and I haven't been to a course since. I was quite excited when it was announced and immediately reserved and paid for a single room for myself. Many weeks later when the course began, I was asked to show up at a large hotel for a room assignment. I got there on time, around 4PM. Finally, after being there six and a half hours, watching rooms being held for Governors who hadn't showed up and other odd things, I was given a shared room in a dormitory on a campus far away, with no apologies. Probably Gallaudet College~~a nice campus, but definitely far away, esp. if you'd paid for a single. Did they at least drive you out there? If not, how did you get there? And how did you and the others get back and forth? I hope they didn't make everyone take the Metro. I was completely bummed - not what I wanted or expected, or had paid for. There was no explanation of what happened to my reservation or why, though even at the remote facility, single rooms were still being held for absent Governors. I stayed one night and left the course the next afternoon. Sayonara, and all that. :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Checking and Auditing merged (was: Re: Absolute Silence)
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 11:43 AM, blusc0ut no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall thomas.pall@... wrote: On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 9:11 AM, blusc0ut no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Hilarious, how did you do it? Really cool. I especially like the part where it says: If Microsoft can make a bid for scientology.. I used one of those front page/headline generator websites maybe 3 years ago. The websites have gotten smart and don't create static content anymore. When I sent it to Rick he was floored. I think the Borg/Microsoft had made a bid for something like Yahoo so it was quite appropriate for the time. Of course the TMO is a lot less than it was now. Microsoft and CoS. What a great pair.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Big Daddy In The Sky and his enlightened helpers
On Feb 15, 2011, at 1:01 PM, WillyTex wrote: This is just blatant harassment; everyone knows that the Hindu explanation of karma is contained in the Bhagavad Gita! What's amazing is your blather about not having read the Gita comments by MMY and so you think I have little wisdom on karma for citing the obvious. Go figure. I was never impressed with his 1/3 of the Gita commentary. Or the Bhag. Gita itself. Not to mention it's mostly purloined from an old Shaivite text
[FairfieldLife] Big Daddy In The Sky with Diamonds
Shut me#65279; up, Scotty. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1Ar79f8aN8 Big Daddy In The Sky with Diamonds http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGpCqsc2SK8
[FairfieldLife] Checking and Auditing merged (was: Re: Absolute Silence)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall thomas.pall@... wrote: On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 11:43 AM, blusc0ut no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall thomas.pall@ wrote: On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 9:11 AM, blusc0ut no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Hilarious, how did you do it? Really cool. I especially like the part where it says: If Microsoft can make a bid for scientology.. I found a site that still generates these articles. http://www.fodey.com/generators/newspaper/snippet.asp Enjoy. Great. Now I have to think something up ;-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Checking and Auditing merged (was: Re: Absolute Silence)
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 11:43 AM, blusc0ut no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall thomas.pall@... wrote: On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 9:11 AM, blusc0ut no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Hilarious, how did you do it? Really cool. I especially like the part where it says: If Microsoft can make a bid for scientology.. I found a site that still generates these articles. http://www.fodey.com/generators/newspaper/snippet.asp Enjoy.
[FairfieldLife] Re: KHOE interview: Vedic agriculture, Vedic garden design
CAUTION: Word on the street is that the whole theory behind Vedic Garden Design was ripped off from the Kama Sutra, with unpredictable results: [I've Seen Bigger] http://whennaturegoesbad.com/2010/03/itll-do/attachment/64/ [Eat Your Potato!] http://whennaturegoesbad.com/2010/03/hot-potato/attachment/55/ --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dick Mays dickmays@... wrote: Vedic Garden Design! Dr. Peter and Dr. Susie Swan are interviewed on the program A Chat With The Dean on World Radio KHOE, 90.5 FM with host Dean Dr. Cathy Gorini and station manager Stan Stansberry. Listen as Dr. Swan discusses aspects of Maharishi Organic Agriculture in the context of the course he is teaching here at Maharishi University of Management, and Dr. Susie Swan talks about the new Vedic Garden Design Institute where you can get answers to you gardening questions. A fascinating and educational 60 minutes with these top movement educators discussing down-to-earth issues so vital to our well-being individually and collectively. Listen to this program on World Radio KHOE, 90.5 Fm at the following days and times. Mondays Noon Tuesdays 9 PM just following the Maharishi Global Family Chat Wednesdays 9AM and 7 PM Thursdays 5 PM and 9 PM Fridays 8 AM Sundays 5 AM and Noon Dr. Swan will address the community this Friday, February 18th at 8 PM in Festival Hall in the Argiro Student Center. All are welcome to attend. *** DOME ANNOUNCEMENTS is a moderated list that distributes announcements to the Maharishi University of Management community. Send your announcements to owner-dome-l@... Encourage your friends to sign up for DOME ANNOUNCEMENTS. Send an e-mail message to dome-l-request@..., and put the word subscribe (without the quotation marks) in the body of the message. To stop receiving DOME ANNOUNCEMENTS, send an e-mail message to: dome-l-request@..., and type the word unsubscribe (without the quotation marks) in the body of the message.
[FairfieldLife] TM makes you stupid
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 12:22 PM, Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@lisco.comwrote: On Feb 15, 2011, at 7:25 AM, whynotnow7 wrote: Probably Gallaudet College~~a nice campus, but definitely far away, esp. if you'd paid for a single. Did they at least drive you out there? If not, how did you get there? And how did you and the others get back and forth? I hope they didn't make everyone take the Metro. I paid for and ???got??? luxury housing. At a hotel far out. The course liaisons took a long time before they got clued in on having the same buses go to every hotel. It took hours to get to the hotel. Finally they realized that perhaps each bus should go to a couple of hotels only. I swelterd in the men's area? Why? Because the Japanese men had plopped themselves under the air conditioning vents. The air conditioning had to be turned down real low because they are, after all, vata. Why not just ask the Japanese to move? Did not compute. I had been getting luke warm on the TMO. Then this course came along and the TMO showed just what all of these years of gushing over MMY and being on continuous rounding did for these people. It made them stupid. Now I see that by then that mostly losers became hangers on.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: ObamaBudget: War on the Poor
On 02/15/2011 09:52 AM, WillyTex wrote: With my plan, which is to create good paying jobs for everyone, people would pay next to zero income tax, and what they pay would be a flat tax that is equal and fair for everyone. Bhairitu: So you advocate a social jobs program like FDR had? No, free enterprise system. That's really worked well hasn't it? guffaw! There's not enough jobs for everyone. You don't want to create meaningless make due jobs. Americans should only have to work 1/3 of the year to make ends meet if you do the math. The Industrial Age ended long ago so no need to for factory serfs. Let's have a leisure society and pay people NOT to work. Only the evil rich want to make people slaves and to them I say slave this! I hope all you whiners that think people are lazy find yourselves laid off or YOUR pensions cut. Serves you right. And a flat tax is disproportionate for lower wage earners. So, you're thinking that 2% of wage earners would pay the federal income tax for the remaining 98% of U.S. wage earners? Screw that! What happened to equality spelled out in the U.S. Constitution? I am opposed to federal and state income taxation, but if everyone paid a flat and equal tax, I would pay my share. You mean the 2% whose only job is to sit around the swimming pool and clip coupons? You talk like you're one of the 2%. Why do you support those 2% who are basically sociopaths. They won't do anything for you. You need some smarts, Willy. Why won't you pay your fair share of federal income tax? You probably get an income tax refund. Go figure. Sure after deduction I get a refund but not for the entire amount. With contractors the income will vary from year to year and there is no way you can pay in accurately.
[FairfieldLife] New file uploaded to FairfieldLife
Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the FairfieldLife group. File: /Members' Writings and Suggestions/newspaper.jpg Uploaded by : blusc0ut Description : SRM refounded - article in Herald Tribune You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/files/Members%27%20%20Writings%20and%20Suggestions/newspaper.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.html Regards, blusc0ut
Re: [FairfieldLife] iConfess: Coming to an iPad near you
On 02/14/2011 04:21 AM, Vaj wrote: On Feb 13, 2011, at 5:07 PM, Bhairitu wrote: Costs too much. For the phone platforms studies show that people are usually unwilling to pay more than $5 for an app. And now they are squealing about paying 99 cents for games according to the game publishers I've talked to. So strip it down to a trinket which is what I call phone apps and leave 'em asking for more. When they're willing to pay more then you can give too them but you need to have at least 1000 customers asking for more. Besides if people knew a little there are plenty free MP3 recordings of mantras (preferably Shanti or Shiva) that one can put on a phone and listen too as a meditation. Not to mention YouTube videos of them which of course can be played on an Android phone. OK, OK. 3.99. Includes advanced techniques for the ultimate fertilized transcending experience. Android meditation apps and you don't need to install a program to look at them: https://market.android.com/search?q=meditation
Re: [FairfieldLife] Six Personality Types
On 02/14/2011 02:36 PM, Vaj wrote: On Feb 14, 2011, at 12:55 PM, Bhairitu wrote: From this article on Wired.com about the company that records your phone calls so they can fit you into a hole so companies can better deal with you when you call. 1. Spock: Thoughts-based person who approaches every issue rationally with a “just the facts, ma’am” mentality. 2. Princess Diana: Emotions-based person who wants warmth and congeniality. 3. Rush Limbaugh: Opinions-based person, a person for whom strongly held beliefs often trump facts. 4. Robin Williams: Reactions-based person who immediately likes or dislikes something and enjoys playing. 5. Donald Trump: Actions-based person, a person who prefers doing to talking. 6. Yoda: Reflections-based person, someone who likes to think matters through. Spockoda Williams. For me it depends on who I'm calling and my favorite game is to pull the person who takes the call off script so I don't see asshole in the list though maybe it is Trump like. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: fairfieldlife-dig...@yahoogroups.com fairfieldlife-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: fairfieldlife-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] SRM refounded
[http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/MM1aTTahtBsj8Wh1y8Eh8VOAgN63JLxbTOPwElYglY\ AKRqhFhyVYvAirzvUx3huGNWLwMq_d1iV2_hEBMGPjPHVqRw/Members%27%20%20Writing\ s%20and%20Suggestions/newspaper.jpg]
[FairfieldLife] Re: ObamaBudget: War on the Poor
With my plan, which is to create good paying jobs for everyone, people would pay next to zero income tax, and what they pay would be a flat tax that is equal and fair for everyone. So you advocate a social jobs program like FDR had? No, free enterprise system. Bhairitu: That's really worked well hasn't it? guffaw! You are not making any sense - the ONLY workable economic system is the free enterprise system! Do you have another solution to insure individual capital gains? If so, what is it? I hope all you whiners that think people are lazy find yourselves laid off or YOUR pensions cut. So, that's your solution - cut the pensions of all the public workers and cut the Social Security of all the retired workers? Why won't you pay your fair share of federal income tax? You probably get an income tax refund... Sure after deduction I get a refund but not for the entire amount... Refund from what? If you don't make enough to pay your share of the flat income tax, why should you get a refund when others have to pay? The U.S. Constitution guarantees equality under the law. Have you thought this through, because none of what you said is even being considered by your elected leaders to contain federal spending. Go figure.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Big Daddy In The Sky and his enlightened helpers
Actually I don't recall MMY giving a good explanation of the different types of karma anywhere. Can you cite source? Almost the entire MMY commentary on Bhagavad Gita is an explanation of karma, which is the central theme of the Gita: Arjuna's struggle with action or non-action at the Battle of Kurukshetra. Amazing one could blather on for so long and show so little wisdom on karma. ...everyone knows that the Hindu explanation of karma is contained in the Bhagavad Gita! Vaj: I was never impressed with his 1/3 of the Gita commentary... Maybe you need a running commentary, but the Gita is dirt-simple: actions have consequences. Almost anyone can understand that. The question is: is there a mental component to karmic acts or is karma concerned with just physical acts?
Re: [FairfieldLife] The three gunas idea, expressed in pseudocode
On Feb 15, 2011, at 10:31 AM, turquoiseb wrote: Just as a followup, and hopefully the last word on the subject from my side, I want to try to clarify why I got involved in the recent discussion here. It was to point out that the whole thing was based on some- thing assumed to be true, and that this assumption is not to be assumed. Here's how I would present Judy's position, expressed in computer language-like pseudocode: IF A (the three gunas control all actions, and no one, including Maharishi is the doer of any of these actions, merely puppets carrying them out.) THEN B (Maharishi might have been consciously aware that each of his actions was the doing of the three gunas, and thus a willing participant in those actions.) OR C (Maharishi might have been completely unaware of the true, inner, three gunas-directed nature of his own actions, but did what he was supposed to do anyway, because he was so enlightened and all.) THEREFORE Z (No harm, no foul either way. Maharishi always did the right thing because he had no choice; the three gunas really did everything. He's off the hook for anything we perceive as incorrect behavior because that's merely our limited per- ception of his actions, which weren't really his at all but the actions of the three gunas.) BZT. DOES NOT COMPILE, BECAUSE A IS NOT A VALID VARIABLE. IT HAS NOT BEEN DECLARED AS ABSOLUTE. What Judy's argument boils down to is an appeal to those who believe that A is not only true, but Truth. It is neither. It is a theory, thought up in the Dark Ages of Vedic thought to explain How The Universe Works. Judy clearly believes that A is true. Thus it never occurred to her that the rest of her argument falls apart if it *isn't* true. If it *isn't* true, and Maharishi had free will, then both B and C become irrelevancies, and Z as well. Her argument was pitched at people she expected to never question whether A was true. It was an attempt to play off of the shared assumption that A is true, and force a conclu- sion that whatever Maharishi's actions -- or our perceptions of them -- they were not his responsibility because neither he nor we have any responsibility for *any* of our actions. They are not our actions at all; they're the actions of the three gunas. Bzzzt. Not everyone believes this. I, for one, do not I, for two, do not either. It's impossible, since it's quite clear (and everyone knows it) that it's the actions of the Three Stooges. Sal
[FairfieldLife] most important question
Subject: Fw: most important question Subject: most important question http://r9.fodey.com/2145/42b6dfec78df43f8adac1de036118433.0.gif .
[FairfieldLife] Re: Big Daddy In The Sky and his enlightened helpers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willytex@... wrote: Actually I don't recall MMY giving a good explanation of the different types of karma anywhere. Can you cite source? Almost the entire MMY commentary on Bhagavad Gita is an explanation of karma, which is the central theme of the Gita: Arjuna's struggle with action or non-action at the Battle of Kurukshetra. Amazing one could blather on for so long and show so little wisdom on karma. ...everyone knows that the Hindu explanation of karma is contained in the Bhagavad Gita! Vaj: I was never impressed with his 1/3 of the Gita commentary... Well, according to the great Vivekananda, the Gita had originally only 2 Chapters. That's why it is actually so long, it has 72 verses. All other chapters are later additions. He may have got this idea from some sanskrit scholars. But it makes sense that the Gita had several authors. Maybe you need a running commentary, but the Gita is dirt-simple: actions have consequences. Almost anyone can understand that. The question is: is there a mental component to karmic acts or is karma concerned with just physical acts?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Big Daddy In The Sky and his enlightened helpers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, blusc0ut no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willytex@ wrote: Actually I don't recall MMY giving a good explanation of the different types of karma anywhere. Can you cite source? Almost the entire MMY commentary on Bhagavad Gita is an explanation of karma, which is the central theme of the Gita: Arjuna's struggle with action or non-action at the Battle of Kurukshetra. Amazing one could blather on for so long and show so little wisdom on karma. ...everyone knows that the Hindu explanation of karma is contained in the Bhagavad Gita! Vaj: I was never impressed with his 1/3 of the Gita commentary... Well, according to the great Vivekananda, the Gita had originally only 2 Chapters. That's why it* is actually so long, it has 72 verses. All other chapters are later additions. He may have got this idea from some sanskrit scholars. But it makes sense that the Gita had several authors. * the second chapter. Almost double a long as every other chapter. The number of the chapters is symbolic, it imitates the Mahabharata, which has 18 parvas. Maybe you need a running commentary, but the Gita is dirt-simple: actions have consequences. Almost anyone can understand that. The question is: is there a mental component to karmic acts or is karma concerned with just physical acts?
[FairfieldLife] Re: The three gunas idea, expressed in pseudocode
right, contributors! The flaw starts in IF - A; since it has to be parsed into 2 parts: a. if the Gunas control all actions, and b. then no one is the doer ... The problem here is that the entities in question (MMY, ...anyone); are composed of the Gunas as - elements + organs of action, will, etc (the entire complex of what makes up a conventional body/mind). So, (conventionally), there are no entities separate from the Gunas, and we are back to square one in ascertaining the dynamics of action. The net result is that we have to resort to ordinary traditional, means in studying actions, much of which is in the domain of science and subject to rational inquiry without the need to grok unfathomable chains of karma. ... To obfuscate the issues further, various stooges introduce the set of E'd people; saying their karma is somehow different. Their first premise however also fits into the above, since the claim is that E'd people are non-doers. The problem with this is that un-E'd people are equally The Self (a dirt clod = the Buddha); so again we have to resort to conventional means in investigating the nature of actions. http://www.fantasygallery.net/bouchard/art_0_interlude.html --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@... wrote: On Feb 15, 2011, at 10:31 AM, turquoiseb wrote: Just as a followup, and hopefully the last word on the subject from my side, I want to try to clarify why I got involved in the recent discussion here. It was to point out that the whole thing was based on some- thing assumed to be true, and that this assumption is not to be assumed. Here's how I would present Judy's position, expressed in computer language-like pseudocode: IF A (the three gunas control all actions, and no one, including Maharishi is the doer of any of these actions, merely puppets carrying them out.) THEN B (Maharishi might have been consciously aware that each of his actions was the doing of the three gunas, and thus a willing participant in those actions.) OR C (Maharishi might have been completely unaware of the true, inner, three gunas-directed nature of his own actions, but did what he was supposed to do anyway, because he was so enlightened and all.) THEREFORE Z (No harm, no foul either way. Maharishi always did the right thing because he had no choice; the three gunas really did everything. He's off the hook for anything we perceive as incorrect behavior because that's merely our limited per- ception of his actions, which weren't really his at all but the actions of the three gunas.) BZT. DOES NOT COMPILE, BECAUSE A IS NOT A VALID VARIABLE. IT HAS NOT BEEN DECLARED AS ABSOLUTE. What Judy's argument boils down to is an appeal to those who believe that A is not only true, but Truth. It is neither. It is a theory, thought up in the Dark Ages of Vedic thought to explain How The Universe Works. Judy clearly believes that A is true. Thus it never occurred to her that the rest of her argument falls apart if it *isn't* true. If it *isn't* true, and Maharishi had free will, then both B and C become irrelevancies, and Z as well. Her argument was pitched at people she expected to never question whether A was true. It was an attempt to play off of the shared assumption that A is true, and force a conclu- sion that whatever Maharishi's actions -- or our perceptions of them -- they were not his responsibility because neither he nor we have any responsibility for *any* of our actions. They are not our actions at all; they're the actions of the three gunas. Bzzzt. Not everyone believes this. I, for one, do not I, for two, do not either. It's impossible, since it's quite clear (and everyone knows it) that it's the actions of the Three Stooges. Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: ObamaBudget: War on the Poor
On 02/15/2011 12:01 PM, WillyTex wrote: With my plan, which is to create good paying jobs for everyone, people would pay next to zero income tax, and what they pay would be a flat tax that is equal and fair for everyone. So you advocate a social jobs program like FDR had? No, free enterprise system. Bhairitu: That's really worked well hasn't it?guffaw! You are not making any sense - the ONLY workable economic system is the free enterprise system! Do you have another solution to insure individual capital gains? If so, what is it? I hope all you whiners that think people are lazy find yourselves laid off or YOUR pensions cut. So, that's your solution - cut the pensions of all the public workers and cut the Social Security of all the retired workers? Why won't you pay your fair share of federal income tax? You probably get an income tax refund... Sure after deduction I get a refund but not for the entire amount... Refund from what? If you don't make enough to pay your share of the flat income tax, why should you get a refund when others have to pay? The U.S. Constitution guarantees equality under the law. Have you thought this through, because none of what you said is even being considered by your elected leaders to contain federal spending. Go figure. I wonder why you continue to make an absolute fool of yourself on FFL. You're not even funny so we should fire you as the court jester. If you are absolutely serious about what you say maybe you need a CAT scan because something is eating your brain. Either that or maybe you should move to Vallejo since it is your kind of town. Just stay away from my community across the Strait. http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_17372697
[FairfieldLife] Re: The three gunas idea, expressed in pseudocode
Exactly, Richard!... ... A problem can occur with: Bondage occurs when the Purusha does not have discriminate knowledge and so gets misled as to it's own identity - thus MMY says Purusha is overshadowed by physical events and individuals erroneously identify with the body and the physical world. ... ...in that given the truth of the above, various people go on to assemble a horde of non-sequiturs in regard to actions. The discrimination applies to the false identification involving Purusha/Prakriti; and has nothing to do with making ordinary decisions. (such as the ridiculous notion that E'd people are incapable of making mistakes), or - such persons can only perform life-supporting actions. ... Such assumptions would indeed be mistaken, imo. The burden of proof is on the claimants (logic, evidence,...). PS: But in regard to the truth...I give Scriptural Authority about zero weight. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willytex@... wrote: TurquoiseB: The three gunas idea, expressed in pseudocode... Turq got all mixed up, again. In Hindu dualism, the Prakriti is considered to be the first cause of everything, except the Purusha, which is considered to be uncaused. Prakriti accounts for everything in the physical world. All physical events are considered to be manifestations of the evolution of Prakriti. All physical bodies are controlled by karma, cause and effect. Purusha on the other hand, is considered to be the 'spiritual' realm, that is, pure intelligence and pure consciousness. Purusha is free and not fettered by karma. The spirit is liberated when the discriminate knowledge of the difference between conscious Purusha and unconscious Prakriti is realized. Bondage occurs when the Purusha does not have discriminate knowledge and so gets misled as to it's own identity - thus MMY says Purusha is overshadowed by physical events and individuals erroneously identify with the body and the physical world. So, it sounds like Turq didn't read the Gita, let alone MMY's commentary on it! Go figure. and no one, including Maharishi is the doer of any of these actions, merely puppets carrying them out.) THEN B (Maharishi might have been consciously aware that each of his actions was the doing of the three gunas, and thus a willing participant in those actions.) OR C (Maharishi might have been completely unaware of the true, inner, three gunas-directed nature of his own actions, but did what he was supposed to do anyway, because he was so enlightened and all.) THEREFORE Z (No harm, no foul either way. Maharishi always did the right thing because he had no choice; the three gunas really did everything. He's off the hook for anything we perceive as incorrect behavior because that's merely our limited per- ception of his actions, which weren't really his at all but the actions of the three gunas.) BZT. DOES NOT COMPILE, BECAUSE A IS NOT A VALID VARIABLE. IT HAS NOT BEEN DECLARED AS ABSOLUTE. What Judy's argument boils down to is an appeal to those who believe that A is not only true, but Truth. It is neither. It is a theory, thought up in the Dark Ages of Vedic thought to explain How The Universe Works. Judy clearly believes that A is true. Thus it never occurred to her that the rest of her argument falls apart if it *isn't* true. If it *isn't* true, and Maharishi had free will, then both B and C become irrelevancies, and Z as well. Her argument was pitched at people she expected to never question whether A was true. It was an attempt to play off of the shared assumption that A is true, and force a conclu- sion that whatever Maharishi's actions -- or our perceptions of them -- they were not his responsibility because neither he nor we have any responsibility for *any* of our actions. They are not our actions at all; they're the actions of the three gunas. Bzzzt. Not everyone believes this. I, for one, do not
[FairfieldLife] Re: Absolute Silence
It was a long time ago - University of Maryland I think. I do recall my roommate showed up near midnight and the first thing he did was show me the rampant psoriasis on his arms and reassured me it wasn't contagious. I don't recall having to go anywhere else. If I did, I drove my car. It was a great eye opener/final straw for me. :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@... wrote: On Feb 15, 2011, at 7:25 AM, whynotnow7 wrote: Same reason I had less and less to do with the TMO over the years - I saw established arrogance and corruption. The last TM course I went on was that big Washington DC one about 20 years ago. Which was right when I was leaving DC and moving here~~ no interest in going and I haven't been to a course since. I was quite excited when it was announced and immediately reserved and paid for a single room for myself. Many weeks later when the course began, I was asked to show up at a large hotel for a room assignment. I got there on time, around 4PM. Finally, after being there six and a half hours, watching rooms being held for Governors who hadn't showed up and other odd things, I was given a shared room in a dormitory on a campus far away, with no apologies. Probably Gallaudet College~~a nice campus, but definitely far away, esp. if you'd paid for a single. Did they at least drive you out there? If not, how did you get there? And how did you and the others get back and forth? I hope they didn't make everyone take the Metro. I was completely bummed - not what I wanted or expected, or had paid for. There was no explanation of what happened to my reservation or why, though even at the remote facility, single rooms were still being held for absent Governors. I stayed one night and left the course the next afternoon. Sayonara, and all that. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Big Daddy In The Sky and his enlightened helpers
I was never impressed with his 1/3 of the Gita commentary. Or the Bhag. Gita itself. You? I am shocked! So unlike you Vaj - LOL :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Feb 15, 2011, at 1:01 PM, WillyTex wrote: This is just blatant harassment; everyone knows that the Hindu explanation of karma is contained in the Bhagavad Gita! What's amazing is your blather about not having read the Gita comments by MMY and so you think I have little wisdom on karma for citing the obvious. Go figure. I was never impressed with his 1/3 of the Gita commentary. Or the Bhag. Gita itself. Not to mention it's mostly purloined from an old Shaivite text
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TM Learning Process, or The Road To Fundamentalism
That's quite a story Turq, but for us sane individuals, what the hell are you talking about?? :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Joe geezerfreak@... wrote: Interesting to read through this list in light of all the comments about Scientology recentlyin fact you could sub out Scientology terms and LRH for MMY in much of this without breaking a sweat, especially the newer, better, we-really-mean-it-this-time-this-is-THE-one-you-need next course bit. As for looking into other teachers or reading other books, one of my earliest memories of seeing MMY is hearing his man who digs many holes never finds water story. Sure enough, when I became a TM teacher, I trotted this story out whenever I was asked about other paths. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: [ Caveat: What follows is my opinion, and in fact my considered opinion, arrived at after decades of being part of the TMO from the inside and observing it and its members from the outside. You are well within your rights to believe something else, because after all, it is nothing BUT opinion. But so is what you believe. ] I figured that, on the heels of my Echo Chamber Effect post, I should delineate some of the ways in which I think TMers have, in fact, been indoctrinated to believe certain things, disbelieve others, and adopt a funda- mentalist defensive stance towards the former and an offensive, attack mode stance towards the latter. This is how I view the TM Learning Process, after having participated in it and observed it for 44 years: 1. You are taught to meditate, having been pre-taught exactly what is going to happen when you meditate, and how you should interpret what happens. Periods of thought stopping are not just thought stopping; they are transcendence, merging with the Home Of All Know- ledge, entering into a higher state of consciousness. 2. Your innocent experience of TM (which is anything but) is then followed up by three nights of indoctrin- ation into *more* of what your experience 'really' means and how to interpret it. You are told that not only is each meditation an experience of some mystical universal field of consciousness, doing it regularly is your only real way to eventually experience an even higher state of consciousness, enlightenment. You are told what enlightenment means, and told that it is the highest goal anyone could ever aspire to. 3. In the three nights of checking, and every time you walk into a TM center after that, you are encouraged to learn more. That is, you are encouraged to attend hour after hour of lectures on -- essentially -- Hindu thought and theories, sanitized for your protection by describing them as Vedic thought. At no point are any of these concepts presented *as* theories; they are presented as Truth, the highest knowledge avail- able on the planet. 4. After a few of these advanced lectures, you are encouraged to attend residence courses, during which you round (meditate so often that you are considered so spaced out and such a potential danger to yourself and others that you are not allowed to leave the facility in which the residence course is being held). You are also forced to sit in front of TVs and watch hours and hours of additional indoctrination on Hindu thought and concepts, many of them delivered by genuflect Maharishi Himself. 5. By putting Maharishi Himself in scare quotes, I am hoping to capture the way that MMY is presented to new students. That is, as the ultimate authority, an enlightened being whose every word reflects the Truth about the world and how it works. Even if it's not expressed in words, the deference and sense of obeis- ance that the TM teachers feel towards him is conveyed subconsciously to the students, so much so that when they first have an opportunity to meet him, they cannot conceive of doing so except in the accepted manner -- standing in a line and deferentially offer- ing him a flower. By the time they actually do meet him, they can no longer even conceive of *challenging* any of the things he says; the lesson has been driven home to them by this time that such behavior is inappropriate and disrespectful. If Maharishi says it, it's not only true, but Truth. 6. Then (at least in the past), if you want to dive further into the TM knowledge, you have to take SCI. Which is basically the equivalent of being forced to sit in front of hours and hours and hours of the most boring and pretentious drivel you have ever seen on television, while pretending that it isn't boring. More indoctrination into Just STFU and let the waves of Ultimate Truth wash over you. 7. All along the way, TM is never once presented as just another spiritual path; it is always presented as The Best such path, the highest path. The TM
[FairfieldLife] Re: Absolute Silence
Nope - I left the course of my own accord and figured that was my choice. :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Joe geezerfreak@... wrote: And did you demand your money back? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: Same reason I had less and less to do with the TMO over the years - I saw established arrogance and corruption. The last TM course I went on was that big Washington DC one about 20 years ago. I was quite excited when it was announced and immediately reserved and paid for a single room for myself. Many weeks later when the course began, I was asked to show up at a large hotel for a room assignment. I got there on time, around 4PM. Finally, after being there six and a half hours, watching rooms being held for Governors who hadn't showed up and other odd things, I was given a shared room in a dormitory on a campus far away, with no apologies. I was completely bummed - not what I wanted or expected, or had paid for. There was no explanation of what happened to my reservation or why, though even at the remote facility, single rooms were still being held for absent Governors. I stayed one night and left the course the next afternoon. Sayonara, and all that. :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: This is all fine and can explain something of how natural law works in the body. Life in the body, of even the awakened. But what of the influence of growing up, culture? Learning manners? Skill-sets of social grace or not. Socialization. Some people obviously do groups better than others. But the range and distribution of getting along anyway is somewhere around the 'golden rule' as mean for most any culture that works, with some outliers either way. Like, I observe that this (a bad-behavior of poor manners) is a large aspect of why people who could meditate in the domes to help with the dome numbers do not in fact go to the domes. There is an evident TM ambiance of bad or rude behavior that has been allowed to rule particularly over places to sit and turf in the domes. A bad up-bringing that has gotten away with itself. Is that TM? Or just a poor moral reasoning that the movement has fostered? A few years ago Korean Airlines (KAL) flight safety was so bad they were being asked to not land at airports in places around the world. The essential problem was their culture. Poor collaboration inside the cockpit cabin by culture. It took a while to figure out what was going on as to why they were so dysfunctional as flight crews. However, it was an essential cultural dysfunction. To change the safety problem KAL in consulting had to bring veteran American pilots from Delta Airlines who literally had to break the Korean culture to get them to communicate effectively inside the cockpits to be able to effectively (safely) fly. It took some work to do but now KAL is flying fine and safe. The domes? The TM-Rajas could take a lesson from KAL in managing the domes. It might even take breaking a culture to get the dome numbers up and sustain them. The TM-Rajas certainly could help with the evident cultural problem of poor behavior that is there in the domes that keeps people away from the domes. JGD, -Buck I survey asking folks all the time if they have current dome badges and whether they go to meditate in the domes(?). An endemic TM problem of rudeness is by far the largest reason that people tend not to go to the domes. There are other practical reasons that people do not make the domes the place they meditate. But a manifest climate of airs and poor behavior by far is the largest reason that folks do not go to the domes with any regularity. TM? Improved moral reasoning? Evidently not. Room for improvement? Evidently so if they would like to get the numbers up. They should might have to break a culture to change things for the better. They've got a bad reputation. The TM-Rajas could change that to change things if they were not oblivious to their problem at hand. Life in the body. JGD, -Buck in FF
[FairfieldLife] Re: The three gunas idea, expressed in pseudocode
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, yifuxero yifuxero@... wrote: Exactly, Richard!... ... A problem can occur with: Bondage occurs when the Purusha does not have discriminate knowledge and so gets misled as to it's own identity - thus MMY says Purusha is overshadowed by physical events and individuals erroneously identify with the body and the physical world. ... ...in that given the truth of the above, various people go on to assemble a horde of non-sequiturs in regard to actions. The discrimination applies to the false identification involving Purusha/Prakriti; and has nothing to do with making ordinary decisions. (such as the ridiculous notion that E'd people are incapable of making mistakes), I think that's because they don't do anything, or else, they do nothing: guNaa guNeSu vartante! and karmaashuklaakRSNaM yoginaH...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Big Daddy In The Sky and his enlightened helpers
I sent Curtis a note about the below. He said he's busy, but does scan FFL now and then. I'm down to about four writers -- if they're posting then I deem the thread worthy to inspect. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Joe geezerfreak@ wrote: Where is Curtis? I really miss his presence here! Perhaps if you pray hard enough, he will return. Terrific! Post of the week.
Re: [FairfieldLife] iConfess: Coming to an iPad near you
On Feb 15, 2011, at 2:50 PM, Bhairitu wrote: Android meditation apps and you don't need to install a program to look at them: https://market.android.com/search?q=meditation Since TM is still so high-priced and these folks continue to relentlessly advertise and proselytize, I think you could demand a 3.99 or 4.99 price riding on their coattails. Best-selling brain-sync apps go for that or twice that on the iOS. Price would include personalized mantra instruction (for example if your stated goal was learning or music, you'd get the Saraswati mantra, but whatever it is, that would be disclosed; Islamic meditators would all get Allah as their mantra, non-sectarian or secular humanist meditators would have a choice of mantric phrases like I am, be-ing, etc.). All would receive step by step mantra instructions and a hypertext-based checking system. Tentative name: Spontaneous Transcending Meditation (STM).
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Big Daddy In The Sky and his enlightened helpers
On Feb 15, 2011, at 3:11 PM, WillyTex wrote: Maybe you need a running commentary, but the Gita is dirt-simple: actions have consequences. Almost anyone can understand that. The question is: is there a mental component to karmic acts or is karma concerned with just physical acts? You're referring to Gita 1-6. The actual B. Gita has 18 chapters. Karma is just the first 6. I have to wonder if any religious text which uses violence as a major theme, without deliberate interiorization (e.g. inner kalachakra, ego-slaying, burning of samskaras, etc.), should be deemed unsuitable for human consumption.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The three gunas idea, expressed in pseudocode
thx, wrt the statement: I think that's because they don't do anything, or else, they do nothing: ... we have to be careful here to first define they. If they = the Self, then It is unencumbered regardless of whether the entity is a rock or an E'd person or a non-E'd person since Purusha as they (the true Self) is not a cause. ... otoh, if they refers to the conventional person (the body/mind), then indeed such entities are doers; again, in the conventional sense. ... But all discussions regarding doership with the referent as they' = Self, amount to useless Neo-Advaitic tautologies conveying no useful information except the level of ignorance of those falling into such traps. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, yifuxero yifuxero@ wrote: Exactly, Richard!... ... A problem can occur with: Bondage occurs when the Purusha does not have discriminate knowledge and so gets misled as to it's own identity - thus MMY says Purusha is overshadowed by physical events and individuals erroneously identify with the body and the physical world. ... ...in that given the truth of the above, various people go on to assemble a horde of non-sequiturs in regard to actions. The discrimination applies to the false identification involving Purusha/Prakriti; and has nothing to do with making ordinary decisions. (such as the ridiculous notion that E'd people are incapable of making mistakes), I think that's because they don't do anything, or else, they do nothing: guNaa guNeSu vartante! and karmaashuklaakRSNaM yoginaH...
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Big Daddy In The Sky and his enlightened helpers
On Feb 15, 2011, at 4:23 PM, whynotnow7 wrote: I was never impressed with his 1/3 of the Gita commentary. Or the Bhag. Gita itself. You? I am shocked! So unlike you Vaj - LOL :-) Any commentary that includes repeated mention of a trademarked name, like transcendental meditation, over and over - is an advertisement, not a true commentary. IMO.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The three gunas idea, expressed in pseudocode
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@... wrote: On Feb 15, 2011, at 10:31 AM, turquoiseb wrote: Just as a followup, and hopefully the last word on the subject from my side, I want to try to clarify why I got involved in the recent discussion here. It was to point out that the whole thing was based on some- thing assumed to be true, and that this assumption is not to be assumed. Here's how I would present Judy's position, expressed in computer language-like pseudocode: IF A (the three gunas control all actions, and no one, including Maharishi is the doer of any of these actions, merely puppets carrying them out.) THEN B (Maharishi might have been consciously aware that each of his actions was the doing of the three gunas, and thus a willing participant in those actions.) OR C (Maharishi might have been completely unaware of the true, inner, three gunas-directed nature of his own actions, but did what he was supposed to do anyway, because he was so enlightened and all.) THEREFORE Z (No harm, no foul either way. Maharishi always did the right thing because he had no choice; the three gunas really did everything. He's off the hook for anything we perceive as incorrect behavior because that's merely our limited per- ception of his actions, which weren't really his at all but the actions of the three gunas.) BZT. DOES NOT COMPILE, BECAUSE A IS NOT A VALID VARIABLE. IT HAS NOT BEEN DECLARED AS ABSOLUTE. What Judy's argument boils down to is an appeal to those who believe that A is not only true, but Truth. It is neither. It is a theory, thought up in the Dark Ages of Vedic thought to explain How The Universe Works. Judy clearly believes that A is true. Thus it never occurred to her that the rest of her argument falls apart if it *isn't* true. If it *isn't* true, and Maharishi had free will, then both B and C become irrelevancies, and Z as well. Her argument was pitched at people she expected to never question whether A was true. It was an attempt to play off of the shared assumption that A is true, and force a conclu- sion that whatever Maharishi's actions -- or our perceptions of them -- they were not his responsibility because neither he nor we have any responsibility for *any* of our actions. They are not our actions at all; they're the actions of the three gunas. Bzzzt. Not everyone believes this. I, for one, do not I, for two, do not either. It's impossible, since it's quite clear (and everyone knows it) that it's the actions of the Three Stooges. Sal Excellent clarification, Sal. Bottom line and final words for me on this entire discussion: Curly was my favorite when I was in 4th grade and a Three Stooges fan. I can still do a pretty good Why Certainly.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Big Daddy In The Sky and his enlightened helpers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Feb 15, 2011, at 3:11 PM, WillyTex wrote: Maybe you need a running commentary, but the Gita is dirt-simple: actions have consequences. Almost anyone can understand that. The question is: is there a mental component to karmic acts or is karma concerned with just physical acts? You're referring to Gita 1-6. The actual B. Gita has 18 chapters. Karma is just the first 6. I have to wonder if any religious text which uses violence as a major theme, without deliberate interiorization (e.g. inner kalachakra, ego-slaying, burning of samskaras, etc.), should be deemed unsuitable for human consumption. All of these Religious Scriptures are mostly written in allegory and metaphor Vaj including the BG. The true significance of Krishna imploring Arjuna to get up and fight is to fight his own inner demons (referred to as the evil minded Kuravas). The battle at Kurushetra is merely the struggle on the battlefield of ones own consciousness between the evil tendencies (of the sense addicted ego) and the noble tendencies (of the soul guided ego). Vyasa's brilliant work isn't explored fully in MMY's BG, if you really want to open and break the key to understanding it, read Swami Yogananda's. Vyasa wrote it loosely surrounding a historical battle, but that is only the most exoteric understanding of it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The three gunas idea, expressed in pseudocode
http://gordonandthewhale.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/3stooges.bmp --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: On Feb 15, 2011, at 10:31 AM, turquoiseb wrote: Just as a followup, and hopefully the last word on the subject from my side, I want to try to clarify why I got involved in the recent discussion here. It was to point out that the whole thing was based on some- thing assumed to be true, and that this assumption is not to be assumed. Here's how I would present Judy's position, expressed in computer language-like pseudocode: IF A (the three gunas control all actions, and no one, including Maharishi is the doer of any of these actions, merely puppets carrying them out.) THEN B (Maharishi might have been consciously aware that each of his actions was the doing of the three gunas, and thus a willing participant in those actions.) OR C (Maharishi might have been completely unaware of the true, inner, three gunas-directed nature of his own actions, but did what he was supposed to do anyway, because he was so enlightened and all.) THEREFORE Z (No harm, no foul either way. Maharishi always did the right thing because he had no choice; the three gunas really did everything. He's off the hook for anything we perceive as incorrect behavior because that's merely our limited per- ception of his actions, which weren't really his at all but the actions of the three gunas.) BZT. DOES NOT COMPILE, BECAUSE A IS NOT A VALID VARIABLE. IT HAS NOT BEEN DECLARED AS ABSOLUTE. What Judy's argument boils down to is an appeal to those who believe that A is not only true, but Truth. It is neither. It is a theory, thought up in the Dark Ages of Vedic thought to explain How The Universe Works. Judy clearly believes that A is true. Thus it never occurred to her that the rest of her argument falls apart if it *isn't* true. If it *isn't* true, and Maharishi had free will, then both B and C become irrelevancies, and Z as well. Her argument was pitched at people she expected to never question whether A was true. It was an attempt to play off of the shared assumption that A is true, and force a conclu- sion that whatever Maharishi's actions -- or our perceptions of them -- they were not his responsibility because neither he nor we have any responsibility for *any* of our actions. They are not our actions at all; they're the actions of the three gunas. Bzzzt. Not everyone believes this. I, for one, do not I, for two, do not either. It's impossible, since it's quite clear (and everyone knows it) that it's the actions of the Three Stooges. Sal Excellent clarification, Sal. Bottom line and final words for me on this entire discussion: Curly was my favorite when I was in 4th grade and a Three Stooges fan. I can still do a pretty good Why Certainly.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Absolute Silence
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@... wrote: On Feb 15, 2011, at 7:25 AM, whynotnow7 wrote: Same reason I had less and less to do with the TMO over the years - I saw established arrogance and corruption. The last TM course I went on was that big Washington DC one about 20 years ago. Which was right when I was leaving DC and moving here~~ no interest in going and I haven't been to a course since. I was quite excited when it was announced and immediately reserved and paid for a single room for myself. Many weeks later when the course began, I was asked to show up at a large hotel for a room assignment. I got there on time, around 4PM. Finally, after being there six and a half hours, watching rooms being held for Governors who hadn't showed up and other odd things, I was given a shared room in a dormitory on a campus far away, with no apologies. Probably Gallaudet College~~a nice campus, but definitely far away, esp. if you'd paid for a single. Did they at least drive you out there? If not, how did you get there? And how did you and the others get back and forth? I hope they didn't make everyone take the Metro. I was completely bummed - not what I wanted or expected, or had paid for. There was no explanation of what happened to my reservation or why, though even at the remote facility, single rooms were still being held for absent Governors. I stayed one night and left the course the next afternoon. Sayonara, and all that. :-) I was there for most of the course, and that was my last big one, tooThe whole atmosphere was creepy and I realized I could not put up with the crap any longer. One thing I liked:The best interaction I had with anyone in charge was seeing John Douillard for some sort of evaluation - maybe health or Ayurveda?. I had never met him before but really liked him in the 10 minutes I spent with him. He seemed genuine, compassionate and not at all full of the lingo and remoteness of the usual leaders at the time. Further, he positively radiated and glowed something special - really seemed super healthy and solid. I thought at the time that he was not long for the TMO, way too nice a guy - and I believe he left not long after.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The three gunas idea, expressed in pseudocode
Bondage occurs when the Purusha does not have discriminate knowledge and so gets misled as to it's own identity - thus MMY says Purusha is overshadowed by physical events and individuals erroneously identify with the body and the physical world. ... yifuxero: The burden of proof is on the claimants (logic, evidence... You can test the theory of karma - just go to a high cliff and jump off - see if you fall into a ditch. The question is, does karma work on the mental level? If so, then you could prove the Maharishi Effect. The three gunas idea, expressed in pseudocode... Turq got all mixed up, again. In Hindu dualism, the Prakriti is considered to be the first cause of everything, except the Purusha, which is considered to be uncaused. Prakriti accounts for everything in the physical world. All physical events are considered to be manifestations of the evolution of Prakriti. All physical bodies are controlled by karma, cause and effect. Purusha on the other hand, is considered to be the 'spiritual' realm, that is, pure intelligence and pure consciousness. Purusha is free and not fettered by karma. The spirit is liberated when the discriminate knowledge of the difference between conscious Purusha and unconscious Prakriti is realized. Bondage occurs when the Purusha does not have discriminate knowledge and so gets misled as to it's own identity - thus MMY says Purusha is overshadowed by physical events and individuals erroneously identify with the body and the physical world. So, it sounds like Turq didn't read the Gita, let alone MMY's commentary on it! Go figure. and no one, including Maharishi is the doer of any of these actions, merely puppets carrying them out.) THEN B (Maharishi might have been consciously aware that each of his actions was the doing of the three gunas, and thus a willing participant in those actions.) OR C (Maharishi might have been completely unaware of the true, inner, three gunas-directed nature of his own actions, but did what he was supposed to do anyway, because he was so enlightened and all.) THEREFORE Z (No harm, no foul either way. Maharishi always did the right thing because he had no choice; the three gunas really did everything. He's off the hook for anything we perceive as incorrect behavior because that's merely our limited per- ception of his actions, which weren't really his at all but the actions of the three gunas.) BZT. DOES NOT COMPILE, BECAUSE A IS NOT A VALID VARIABLE. IT HAS NOT BEEN DECLARED AS ABSOLUTE. What Judy's argument boils down to is an appeal to those who believe that A is not only true, but Truth. It is neither. It is a theory, thought up in the Dark Ages of Vedic thought to explain How The Universe Works. Judy clearly believes that A is true. Thus it never occurred to her that the rest of her argument falls apart if it *isn't* true. If it *isn't* true, and Maharishi had free will, then both B and C become irrelevancies, and Z as well. Her argument was pitched at people she expected to never question whether A was true. It was an attempt to play off of the shared assumption that A is true, and force a conclu- sion that whatever Maharishi's actions -- or our perceptions of them -- they were not his responsibility because neither he nor we have any responsibility for *any* of our actions. They are not our actions at all; they're the actions of the three gunas. Bzzzt. Not everyone believes this. I, for one, do not
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Big Daddy In The Sky and his enlightened helpers
On Feb 15, 2011, at 5:46 PM, wgm4u wrote: You're referring to Gita 1-6. The actual B. Gita has 18 chapters. Karma is just the first 6. I have to wonder if any religious text which uses violence as a major theme, without deliberate interiorization (e.g. inner kalachakra, ego-slaying, burning of samskaras, etc.), should be deemed unsuitable for human consumption. All of these Religious Scriptures are mostly written in allegory and metaphor Vaj including the BG. The true significance of Krishna imploring Arjuna to get up and fight is to fight his own inner demons (referred to as the evil minded Kuravas). The battle at Kurushetra is merely the struggle on the battlefield of ones own consciousness between the evil tendencies (of the sense addicted ego) and the noble tendencies (of the soul guided ego). Vyasa's brilliant work isn't explored fully in MMY's BG, if you really want to open and break the key to understanding it, read Swami Yogananda's. Vyasa wrote it loosely surrounding a historical battle, but that is only the most exoteric understanding of it. On my list of the most dangerous books ever written, the Gita isn't probably at the top (that distinction would go to The Revelation of St. John of Patmos, aka The Book of Revelation), but perhaps it should be closer to the top five. The B. Gita supports the institutionalized enslavement of a huge portion of humanity, demeans the status of women, considers vaisyas [merchants] and sudras [workers], to be of lower/inferior birth (brahmans and war-makers are considered to be of superior birth). The B. Gita considers it religious to annihilate the irreligious [infidels]. The B. Gita disregards suffering and regards the soul as paramount. I would add it to my personal list of the most dangerous books of all time. It's not a song worth singing, even by the Blue Man Group.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The three gunas idea, expressed in pseudocode
a. Right...(on a mental level, Shakti building up until it manifests physically); as in claims for reduced crime rates, etc. b. Then there's the rebound question, regardless of whether physical or mental (as you sow, etc); then the reaping. Unbelievers will say no, there's no boomering effect, or perhaps a rubberband springing back at a later date. c. of course, it (the question of karma) has to be more than a belief since the ideas are prevalent in India but there's no shortage of crimes. d. Let's say ME is real (i.e. generates life-supporting influences in the environment). Can the effect be reproduced? Measured? e. a project for the future. Given that SE is real (the Shakti Effect, of which the ME is one example); what is the most powerful and influential Source of this Shakti. I dispute the notion that the most powerful Source is associated with MMY. I'd say the two most powerful Sources are Ramakrishna and Ramana Maharshi, even those people are physically dead. Their Shakti is transmitting by living proponents, and those doing Pujas to them in various Temples. f. Remains to be seen if somebody can generate enough Shakti to produce effects subject to scientific inquiry. (genuine inquiry, not bogus MUM statistics). --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willytex@... wrote: Bondage occurs when the Purusha does not have discriminate knowledge and so gets misled as to it's own identity - thus MMY says Purusha is overshadowed by physical events and individuals erroneously identify with the body and the physical world. ... yifuxero: The burden of proof is on the claimants (logic, evidence... You can test the theory of karma - just go to a high cliff and jump off - see if you fall into a ditch. The question is, does karma work on the mental level? If so, then you could prove the Maharishi Effect. The three gunas idea, expressed in pseudocode... Turq got all mixed up, again. In Hindu dualism, the Prakriti is considered to be the first cause of everything, except the Purusha, which is considered to be uncaused. Prakriti accounts for everything in the physical world. All physical events are considered to be manifestations of the evolution of Prakriti. All physical bodies are controlled by karma, cause and effect. Purusha on the other hand, is considered to be the 'spiritual' realm, that is, pure intelligence and pure consciousness. Purusha is free and not fettered by karma. The spirit is liberated when the discriminate knowledge of the difference between conscious Purusha and unconscious Prakriti is realized. Bondage occurs when the Purusha does not have discriminate knowledge and so gets misled as to it's own identity - thus MMY says Purusha is overshadowed by physical events and individuals erroneously identify with the body and the physical world. So, it sounds like Turq didn't read the Gita, let alone MMY's commentary on it! Go figure. and no one, including Maharishi is the doer of any of these actions, merely puppets carrying them out.) THEN B (Maharishi might have been consciously aware that each of his actions was the doing of the three gunas, and thus a willing participant in those actions.) OR C (Maharishi might have been completely unaware of the true, inner, three gunas-directed nature of his own actions, but did what he was supposed to do anyway, because he was so enlightened and all.) THEREFORE Z (No harm, no foul either way. Maharishi always did the right thing because he had no choice; the three gunas really did everything. He's off the hook for anything we perceive as incorrect behavior because that's merely our limited per- ception of his actions, which weren't really his at all but the actions of the three gunas.) BZT. DOES NOT COMPILE, BECAUSE A IS NOT A VALID VARIABLE. IT HAS NOT BEEN DECLARED AS ABSOLUTE. What Judy's argument boils down to is an appeal to those who believe that A is not only true, but Truth. It is neither. It is a theory, thought up in the Dark Ages of Vedic thought to explain How The Universe Works. Judy clearly believes that A is true. Thus it never occurred to her that the rest of her argument falls apart if it *isn't* true. If it *isn't* true, and Maharishi had free will, then both B and C become irrelevancies, and Z as well. Her argument was pitched at people she expected to never question whether A was true. It was an attempt to play off of the shared assumption that A is true, and force a conclu- sion that whatever Maharishi's actions -- or our perceptions of them -- they were not his responsibility because neither he nor we have any responsibility for *any* of our actions. They are not our
[FairfieldLife] Re: Big Daddy In The Sky and his enlightened helpers
interesting that you put Revelations on your list. I would put the Bible as a whole in the category of being dangerous. Leads to homophobia and attitudes of servility re: women. Then there's false expectations, say 2nd Thess. attributed to Paul, that points to some type of Rapture. Truly a hopeless cause imo...not gonna happen. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Feb 15, 2011, at 5:46 PM, wgm4u wrote: You're referring to Gita 1-6. The actual B. Gita has 18 chapters. Karma is just the first 6. I have to wonder if any religious text which uses violence as a major theme, without deliberate interiorization (e.g. inner kalachakra, ego-slaying, burning of samskaras, etc.), should be deemed unsuitable for human consumption. All of these Religious Scriptures are mostly written in allegory and metaphor Vaj including the BG. The true significance of Krishna imploring Arjuna to get up and fight is to fight his own inner demons (referred to as the evil minded Kuravas). The battle at Kurushetra is merely the struggle on the battlefield of ones own consciousness between the evil tendencies (of the sense addicted ego) and the noble tendencies (of the soul guided ego). Vyasa's brilliant work isn't explored fully in MMY's BG, if you really want to open and break the key to understanding it, read Swami Yogananda's. Vyasa wrote it loosely surrounding a historical battle, but that is only the most exoteric understanding of it. On my list of the most dangerous books ever written, the Gita isn't probably at the top (that distinction would go to The Revelation of St. John of Patmos, aka The Book of Revelation), but perhaps it should be closer to the top five. The B. Gita supports the institutionalized enslavement of a huge portion of humanity, demeans the status of women, considers vaisyas [merchants] and sudras [workers], to be of lower/inferior birth (brahmans and war-makers are considered to be of superior birth). The B. Gita considers it religious to annihilate the irreligious [infidels]. The B. Gita disregards suffering and regards the soul as paramount. I would add it to my personal list of the most dangerous books of all time. It's not a song worth singing, even by the Blue Man Group.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Big Daddy In The Sky and his enlightened helpers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Feb 15, 2011, at 5:46 PM, wgm4u wrote: You're referring to Gita 1-6. The actual B. Gita has 18 chapters. Karma is just the first 6. I have to wonder if any religious text which uses violence as a major theme, without deliberate interiorization (e.g. inner kalachakra, ego-slaying, burning of samskaras, etc.), should be deemed unsuitable for human consumption. All of these Religious Scriptures are mostly written in allegory and metaphor Vaj including the BG. The true significance of Krishna imploring Arjuna to get up and fight is to fight his own inner demons (referred to as the evil minded Kuravas). The battle at Kurushetra is merely the struggle on the battlefield of ones own consciousness between the evil tendencies (of the sense addicted ego) and the noble tendencies (of the soul guided ego). Vyasa's brilliant work isn't explored fully in MMY's BG, if you really want to open and break the key to understanding it, read Swami Yogananda's. Vyasa wrote it loosely surrounding a historical battle, but that is only the most exoteric understanding of it. On my list of the most dangerous books ever written, the Gita isn't probably at the top (that distinction would go to The Revelation of St. John of Patmos, aka The Book of Revelation), but perhaps it should be closer to the top five. The B. Gita supports the institutionalized enslavement of a huge portion of humanity, demeans the status of women, considers vaisyas [merchants] and sudras [workers], to be of lower/inferior birth (brahmans and war-makers are considered to be of superior birth). The B. Gita considers it religious to annihilate the irreligious [infidels]. The B. Gita disregards suffering and regards the soul as paramount. I would add it to my personal list of the most dangerous books of all time. It's not a song worth singing, even by the Blue Man Group. My preferred scriptures are the Avadhut Gita, the Ashtavakra Gita, and the Ribhu Gita. Are they on anybodies list? Just wondering if I can still read them. Maybe they are on the Neoadvaita WTF list.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Big Daddy In The Sky and his enlightened helpers
Pretty weak minded of you, Vaj. Dangerous *books*?? Really?? Are you kidding me? Better not go to the library Vaj - Too risky! LOL - I am embarrassed for you. :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Feb 15, 2011, at 5:46 PM, wgm4u wrote: You're referring to Gita 1-6. The actual B. Gita has 18 chapters. Karma is just the first 6. I have to wonder if any religious text which uses violence as a major theme, without deliberate interiorization (e.g. inner kalachakra, ego-slaying, burning of samskaras, etc.), should be deemed unsuitable for human consumption. All of these Religious Scriptures are mostly written in allegory and metaphor Vaj including the BG. The true significance of Krishna imploring Arjuna to get up and fight is to fight his own inner demons (referred to as the evil minded Kuravas). The battle at Kurushetra is merely the struggle on the battlefield of ones own consciousness between the evil tendencies (of the sense addicted ego) and the noble tendencies (of the soul guided ego). Vyasa's brilliant work isn't explored fully in MMY's BG, if you really want to open and break the key to understanding it, read Swami Yogananda's. Vyasa wrote it loosely surrounding a historical battle, but that is only the most exoteric understanding of it. On my list of the most dangerous books ever written, the Gita isn't probably at the top (that distinction would go to The Revelation of St. John of Patmos, aka The Book of Revelation), but perhaps it should be closer to the top five. The B. Gita supports the institutionalized enslavement of a huge portion of humanity, demeans the status of women, considers vaisyas [merchants] and sudras [workers], to be of lower/inferior birth (brahmans and war-makers are considered to be of superior birth). The B. Gita considers it religious to annihilate the irreligious [infidels]. The B. Gita disregards suffering and regards the soul as paramount. I would add it to my personal list of the most dangerous books of all time. It's not a song worth singing, even by the Blue Man Group.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Big Daddy In The Sky and his enlightened helpers
Free clue: Don't read these dangerous books. Guys you are blowing my mind with this thinking - sounds so, so...ignorant. Maybe you and Vaj should publish your entire list of DANGEROUS BOOKS. The only problem I can see is I might pee my pants laughing if you do. :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, yifuxero yifuxero@... wrote: interesting that you put Revelations on your list. I would put the Bible as a whole in the category of being dangerous. Leads to homophobia and attitudes of servility re: women. Then there's false expectations, say 2nd Thess. attributed to Paul, that points to some type of Rapture. Truly a hopeless cause imo...not gonna happen. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Feb 15, 2011, at 5:46 PM, wgm4u wrote: You're referring to Gita 1-6. The actual B. Gita has 18 chapters. Karma is just the first 6. I have to wonder if any religious text which uses violence as a major theme, without deliberate interiorization (e.g. inner kalachakra, ego-slaying, burning of samskaras, etc.), should be deemed unsuitable for human consumption. All of these Religious Scriptures are mostly written in allegory and metaphor Vaj including the BG. The true significance of Krishna imploring Arjuna to get up and fight is to fight his own inner demons (referred to as the evil minded Kuravas). The battle at Kurushetra is merely the struggle on the battlefield of ones own consciousness between the evil tendencies (of the sense addicted ego) and the noble tendencies (of the soul guided ego). Vyasa's brilliant work isn't explored fully in MMY's BG, if you really want to open and break the key to understanding it, read Swami Yogananda's. Vyasa wrote it loosely surrounding a historical battle, but that is only the most exoteric understanding of it. On my list of the most dangerous books ever written, the Gita isn't probably at the top (that distinction would go to The Revelation of St. John of Patmos, aka The Book of Revelation), but perhaps it should be closer to the top five. The B. Gita supports the institutionalized enslavement of a huge portion of humanity, demeans the status of women, considers vaisyas [merchants] and sudras [workers], to be of lower/inferior birth (brahmans and war-makers are considered to be of superior birth). The B. Gita considers it religious to annihilate the irreligious [infidels]. The B. Gita disregards suffering and regards the soul as paramount. I would add it to my personal list of the most dangerous books of all time. It's not a song worth singing, even by the Blue Man Group.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Big Daddy In The Sky and his enlightened helpers
On Feb 15, 2011, at 6:12 PM, yifuxero wrote: interesting that you put Revelations on your list. I would put the Bible as a whole in the category of being dangerous. Leads to homophobia and attitudes of servility re: women. Then there's false expectations, say 2nd Thess. attributed to Paul, that points to some type of Rapture. Truly a hopeless cause imo...not gonna happen. The Book of Revelations gets number one because numerous US Presidents (and probably other western leaders) with their fingers on nuclear arsenals that could destroy the world several times over, have professed literal belief in the myth of Armageddon and the End Days. As Reagan said, never in history has been seen so many prophecies coming together. In a television interview before his inauguration he said We may be the last generation that sees Armageddon. Reagan also said to a Jewish delegation Israel is the only stable democracy we can rely on in a spot where Armageddon could come. [goosebumps]. In 1983 Reagan stated he believed Armageddon would come in the present generation. Everything's falling in place, it can't be long now. - Ronald Reagan, referring to the Battle of Armageddon. Foreign policy for Israel is largely centered around Christian beliefs about Armageddon and the End of Days. That's a major reason why we support them and give them so much money. Don't worry, both the New Testament and the Old make my Top Ten List of the Most Dangerous Books of All Time.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Big Daddy In The Sky and his enlightened helpers
On Feb 15, 2011, at 6:26 PM, blusc0ut wrote: My preferred scriptures are the Avadhut Gita, the Ashtavakra Gita, and the Ribhu Gita. Are they on anybodies list? Just wondering if I can still read them. Maybe they are on the Neoadvaita WTF list. I really like the Avadhut and Ashtavakra gitas.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Big Daddy In The Sky and his enlightened helpers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Feb 15, 2011, at 6:26 PM, blusc0ut wrote: My preferred scriptures are the Avadhut Gita, the Ashtavakra Gita, and the Ribhu Gita. Are they on anybodies list? Just wondering if I can still read them. Maybe they are on the Neoadvaita WTF list. I really like the Avadhut and Ashtavakra gitas. OK blusc0ut, you are cleared, Vaj has given his approval - You may continue to read these two acceptable texts. But be careful, no opening the Bahagavad Gita. Vaj will be informed of any literary transgression, however minor. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: ObamaBudget: War on the Poor
I hope all you whiners that think people are lazy find yourselves laid off or YOUR pensions cut. Have you thought this through, because none of what you said is even being considered by your elected leaders to contain federal spending. Go figure. Bhairitu: I wonder why you continue to make an absolute fool of yourself on FFL. So, can you cite a single U.S. elected leader that is advocating cutting public pensions to limit federal spending and reduce the deficit?
[FairfieldLife] Post Count
Fairfield Life Post Counter === Start Date (UTC): Sat Feb 12 00:00:00 2011 End Date (UTC): Sat Feb 19 00:00:00 2011 420 messages as of (UTC) Wed Feb 16 00:07:04 2011 50 authfriend jst...@panix.com 34 turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com 33 whynotnow7 whynotn...@yahoo.com 31 blusc0ut no_re...@yahoogroups.com 31 Vaj vajradh...@earthlink.net 28 Joe geezerfr...@yahoo.com 24 nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 21 wayback71 waybac...@yahoo.com 20 wgm4u wg...@yahoo.com 18 yifuxero yifux...@yahoo.com 17 Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net 13 WillyTex willy...@yahoo.com 12 merudanda no_re...@yahoogroups.com 12 cardemaister no_re...@yahoogroups.com 11 Buck dhamiltony...@yahoo.com 9 seventhray1 steve.sun...@sbcglobal.net 8 Tom Pall thomas.p...@gmail.com 7 emptybill emptyb...@yahoo.com 7 Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@lisco.com 6 guyfawkes91 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 3 jpgillam jpgil...@yahoo.com 3 Yifu Xero yifux...@yahoo.com 3 Peter drpetersutp...@yahoo.com 3 Marcio tmer1...@gmail.com 3 John jr_...@yahoo.com 2 danfriedman2002 danfriedman2...@yahoo.com 2 Peter L Sutphen drpetersutp...@yahoo.com 1 raunchydog raunchy...@yahoo.com 1 hermandan0 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 1 feste37 fest...@yahoo.com 1 dharmacentral no_re...@yahoogroups.com 1 wle...@aol.com 1 Rick Archer r...@searchsummit.com 1 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 1 Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com 1 Dick Mays dickm...@lisco.com Posters: 36 Saturday Morning 00:00 UTC Rollover Times = Daylight Saving Time (Summer): US Friday evening: PDT 5 PM - MDT 6 PM - CDT 7 PM - EDT 8 PM Europe Saturday: BST 1 AM CEST 2 AM EEST 3 AM Standard Time (Winter): US Friday evening: PST 4 PM - MST 5 PM - CST 6 PM - EST 7 PM Europe Saturday: GMT 12 AM CET 1 AM EET 2 AM For more information on Time Zones: www.worldtimezone.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Big Daddy In The Sky and his enlightened helpers
when it comes to artwork, MMY's BG can't hold a candle to the ISKCON version, along with their Srimad Bhagavatam. (the concept of impersonal realization of the Self doesn't lend itself to paintings depecting the passtimes of Krishna...however fictitious. Check some of them out. http://www.asitis.com/gallery/plate18.html --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Feb 15, 2011, at 6:26 PM, blusc0ut wrote: My preferred scriptures are the Avadhut Gita, the Ashtavakra Gita, and the Ribhu Gita. Are they on anybodies list? Just wondering if I can still read them. Maybe they are on the Neoadvaita WTF list. I really like the Avadhut and Ashtavakra gitas. OK blusc0ut, you are cleared, Vaj has given his approval - You may continue to read these two acceptable texts. But be careful, no opening the Bahagavad Gita. Vaj will be informed of any literary transgression, however minor. :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Absolute Silence
On Feb 15, 2011, at 4:53 PM, wayback71 wrote: I was completely bummed - not what I wanted or expected, or had paid for. There was no explanation of what happened to my reservation or why, though even at the remote facility, single rooms were still being held for absent Governors. I stayed one night and left the course the next afternoon. Sayonara, and all that. :-) I was there for most of the course, and that was my last big one, tooThe whole atmosphere was creepy and I realized I could not put up with the crap any longer. Was that one in the summer? The last one I took, shortly before leaving and moving to FF, was in the winter~~forget now which hotel. One thing I liked:The best interaction I had with anyone in charge was seeing John Douillard for some sort of evaluation - maybe health or Ayurveda?. I had never met him before but really liked him in the 10 minutes I spent with him. He seemed genuine, compassionate and not at all full of the lingo and remoteness of the usual leaders at the time. Further, he positively radiated and glowed something special - really seemed super healthy and solid. I thought at the time that he was not long for the TMO, way too nice a guy - and I believe he left not long after. Didn't someone say that his sister, who had been married to Doug Henning, was taken for a huge ride by the TMO and then left penniless or something? Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: Big Daddy In The Sky and his enlightened helpers
Hal Lindsey probably had a strong influence on Reagan, with his best-selling books relating to eschatological themes (so-called end-times approaching Armageddon). (I knew him. We worked in the same office building in Santa Monica). The Wiki summary seems consistent with Reagan's mentality; but it's safe to say that a core of such TB still populate the Pentagon and other establishments, (the Air Force Academy). Wiki In The Late, Great Planet Earth, Lindsey wrote that he had concluded, since there was no apparent mention of the United States of America in the books of Daniel or Revelation, that the USA would no longer be a major player on the geo-political stage by the time the tribulations of the end times arrived. Lindsey also interpreted from Revelation and prophetic texts that the European Economic Community, which preceded the European Union, was destined (according to Biblical prophecy) to become a United States of Europe, with ten members, which in turn he says is destined to become a Revived Roman Empire ruled by the Antichrist. The European Union currently has 27 members. A later book, bearing the title The 1980s: Countdown to Armageddon, implied that the battle of Armageddon would take place in the not too distant future, stating the decade of the 1980s could very well be the last decade of history as we know it[7] and that the U.S. could be destroyed by a surprise Soviet nuclear attack.[8] The book strongly suggests that the 1980s would see the biblical events of tribulation and end times come to pass. Planet Earth - 2000 A.D., published in the early 1990s, states that Christians should not plan to still be on earth by the year 2000. Lindsey's earlier predictions all assumed that the Cold War would continue indefinitely, and had eschatological significance; he explicitly identified Russia with the apocalyptic figure of Gog. He also assumed that the 1960s counterculture would eventually become the dominant culture, and become the source of prophesied immorality that would lead to the establishment of a false religion. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Feb 15, 2011, at 6:12 PM, yifuxero wrote: interesting that you put Revelations on your list. I would put the Bible as a whole in the category of being dangerous. Leads to homophobia and attitudes of servility re: women. Then there's false expectations, say 2nd Thess. attributed to Paul, that points to some type of Rapture. Truly a hopeless cause imo...not gonna happen. The Book of Revelations gets number one because numerous US Presidents (and probably other western leaders) with their fingers on nuclear arsenals that could destroy the world several times over, have professed literal belief in the myth of Armageddon and the End Days. As Reagan said, never in history has been seen so many prophecies coming together. In a television interview before his inauguration he said We may be the last generation that sees Armageddon. Reagan also said to a Jewish delegation Israel is the only stable democracy we can rely on in a spot where Armageddon could come. [goosebumps]. In 1983 Reagan stated he believed Armageddon would come in the present generation. Everything's falling in place, it can't be long now. - Ronald Reagan, referring to the Battle of Armageddon. Foreign policy for Israel is largely centered around Christian beliefs about Armageddon and the End of Days. That's a major reason why we support them and give them so much money. Don't worry, both the New Testament and the Old make my Top Ten List of the Most Dangerous Books of All Time.
[FairfieldLife] Re: ObamaBudget: War on the Poor
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willytex@... wrote: I hope all you whiners that think people are lazy find yourselves laid off or YOUR pensions cut. Have you thought this through, because none of what you said is even being considered by your elected leaders to contain federal spending. Go figure. Bhairitu: I wonder why you continue to make an absolute fool of yourself on FFL. So, can you cite a single U.S. elected leader that is advocating cutting public pensions to limit federal spending and reduce the deficit? Yes, on the state level - Chris Christie the Gov of New Jersey rightly notes that the state is broke. He also admits that for 15 of the last 17 years the state neglected to pay anywhere the amount obligated by law into the pension funds of the state employees (teachers, police, firefighters, etc etc). While those employees had their pension contributions automatically deducted from everyone of their paychecks over the years, the state did not have the discipline to pay in. This started with Christine Whitman, Repug gov in the 90's. She decide to take that pension money and invest it in stocks that were not the usual investments of pensionfunds. I think her husband was an investment banker on Wall St. and that probably influenced her to begin this habit. She also used the money owed to the pension for other things to make the state books look good and wonderful even as she lowered taxes. Anyway, now the pension fund is totally underfunded, so pensions are at risk for future retirees. The current thinking is that if teachers just make higher pension contributions starting now, they can save their own pension fund, maybe. The Gov is rightly asking to raise the retirement ages - something that should have been done years ago. That will help a bit. And NJ is just one of many states in the same mess.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Absolute Silence
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@... wrote: On Feb 15, 2011, at 4:53 PM, wayback71 wrote: I was completely bummed - not what I wanted or expected, or had paid for. There was no explanation of what happened to my reservation or why, though even at the remote facility, single rooms were still being held for absent Governors. I stayed one night and left the course the next afternoon. Sayonara, and all that. :-) I was there for most of the course, and that was my last big one, tooThe whole atmosphere was creepy and I realized I could not put up with the crap any longer. Was that one in the summer? The last one I took, shortly before leaving and moving to FF, was in the winter~~forget now which hotel. Yes, it was the summer, the course I was on. It was held at some humongous, sprawling hotel that I think was called the Omni Shoreham or something like that. One thing I liked:The best interaction I had with anyone in charge was seeing John Douillard for some sort of evaluation - maybe health or Ayurveda?. I had never met him before but really liked him in the 10 minutes I spent with him. He seemed genuine, compassionate and not at all full of the lingo and remoteness of the usual leaders at the time. Further, he positively radiated and glowed something special - really seemed super healthy and solid. I thought at the time that he was not long for the TMO, way too nice a guy - and I believe he left not long after. Didn't someone say that his sister, who had been married to Doug Henning, was taken for a huge ride by the TMO and then left penniless or something? Sal I never heard any of that. I know Henning was working very hard for a few years on some sort of Veda Land for MMY in his last years with MMY. Maybe he spent his money of that and of course it never happened? Then Debbie was left without funds when Doug died?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Post Count
Jeeesus fuking Xhrist. And, it's only Tuesday. Dear Moderators, it would proly be even better here if there was a 30 post limit. It was the best back when we briefly had that. 50 posts per week is way too much to get posted what needs to be said here really. Sure I got memory problems and I can't think now what threads really needed multiple rapid posts in the last few days. I'm always sorry that these people are posting out so soon every week. However even more constraints (30) would help them write even more better here. Our friend Turqb will be out of here soon enough too. I always miss these people as they post out. I appreciate that 103 year-old voice of Turqb's and Judy's sharp mind here too after they strike out. There is a quiet place when they are gone for other things. However, Thirty posts per week would help both them both when they are around. 30. As Turqb posts out I always enjoy listening to the Catch-22 clip to hear his voice when he is not here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bjBAez9cm4 All Blessings, -Buck --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, FFL PostCount ffl.postcount@... wrote: Fairfield Life Post Counter === Start Date (UTC): Sat Feb 12 00:00:00 2011 End Date (UTC): Sat Feb 19 00:00:00 2011 420 messages as of (UTC) Wed Feb 16 00:07:04 2011 50 authfriend jstein@... 34 turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com 33 whynotnow7 whynotnow7@... 31 blusc0ut no_re...@yahoogroups.com 31 Vaj vajradhatu@... 28 Joe geezerfreak@... 24 nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 21 wayback71 wayback71@... 20 wgm4u wgm4u@... 18 yifuxero yifuxero@... 17 Bhairitu noozguru@... 13 WillyTex willytex@... 12 merudanda no_re...@yahoogroups.com 12 cardemaister no_re...@yahoogroups.com 11 Buck dhamiltony2k5@... 9 seventhray1 steve.sundur@... 8 Tom Pall thomas.pall@... 7 emptybill emptybill@... 7 Sal Sunshine salsunshine@... 6 guyfawkes91 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 3 jpgillam jpgillam@... 3 Yifu Xero yifuxero@... 3 Peter drpetersutphen@... 3 Marcio tmer1306@... 3 John jr_esq@... 2 danfriedman2002 danfriedman2002@... 2 Peter L Sutphen drpetersutphen@... 1 raunchydog raunchydog@... 1 hermandan0 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 1 feste37 feste37@... 1 dharmacentral no_re...@yahoogroups.com 1 WLeed3@... 1 Rick Archer rick@... 1 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 1 Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com 1 Dick Mays dickmays@... Posters: 36 Saturday Morning 00:00 UTC Rollover Times = Daylight Saving Time (Summer): US Friday evening: PDT 5 PM - MDT 6 PM - CDT 7 PM - EDT 8 PM Europe Saturday: BST 1 AM CEST 2 AM EEST 3 AM Standard Time (Winter): US Friday evening: PST 4 PM - MST 5 PM - CST 6 PM - EST 7 PM Europe Saturday: GMT 12 AM CET 1 AM EET 2 AM For more information on Time Zones: www.worldtimezone.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Absolute Silence
http://www.elmwoodmagic.com/ama/med/m-spellbound-the-wonder-filled-life-of-doug-henning-book.jpg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: On Feb 15, 2011, at 4:53 PM, wayback71 wrote: I was completely bummed - not what I wanted or expected, or had paid for. There was no explanation of what happened to my reservation or why, though even at the remote facility, single rooms were still being held for absent Governors. I stayed one night and left the course the next afternoon. Sayonara, and all that. :-) I was there for most of the course, and that was my last big one, tooThe whole atmosphere was creepy and I realized I could not put up with the crap any longer. Was that one in the summer? The last one I took, shortly before leaving and moving to FF, was in the winter~~forget now which hotel. Yes, it was the summer, the course I was on. It was held at some humongous, sprawling hotel that I think was called the Omni Shoreham or something like that. One thing I liked:The best interaction I had with anyone in charge was seeing John Douillard for some sort of evaluation - maybe health or Ayurveda?. I had never met him before but really liked him in the 10 minutes I spent with him. He seemed genuine, compassionate and not at all full of the lingo and remoteness of the usual leaders at the time. Further, he positively radiated and glowed something special - really seemed super healthy and solid. I thought at the time that he was not long for the TMO, way too nice a guy - and I believe he left not long after. Didn't someone say that his sister, who had been married to Doug Henning, was taken for a huge ride by the TMO and then left penniless or something? Sal I never heard any of that. I know Henning was working very hard for a few years on some sort of Veda Land for MMY in his last years with MMY. Maybe he spent his money of that and of course it never happened? Then Debbie was left without funds when Doug died?
[FairfieldLife] Re: ObamaBudget: War on the Poor
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willytex@ wrote: I hope all you whiners that think people are lazy find yourselves laid off or YOUR pensions cut. Have you thought this through, because none of what you said is even being considered by your elected leaders to contain federal spending. Go figure. Bhairitu: I wonder why you continue to make an absolute fool of yourself on FFL. So, can you cite a single U.S. elected leader that is advocating cutting public pensions to limit federal spending and reduce the deficit? Yes, on the state level - Chris Christie the Gov of New Jersey rightly notes that the state is broke. He also admits that for 15 of the last 17 years the state neglected to pay anywhere the amount obligated by law into the pension funds of the state employees (teachers, police, firefighters, etc etc). While those employees had their pension contributions automatically deducted from everyone of their paychecks over the years, the state did not have the discipline to pay in. This started with Christine Whitman, Repug gov in the 90's. She decide to take that pension money and invest it in stocks that were not the usual investments of pensionfunds. I think her husband was an investment banker on Wall St. and that probably influenced her to begin this habit. She also used the money owed to the pension for other things to make the state books look good and wonderful even as she lowered taxes. Anyway, now the pension fund is totally underfunded, so pensions are at risk for future retirees. The current thinking is that if teachers just make higher pension contributions starting now, they can save their own pension fund, maybe. The Gov is rightly asking to raise the retirement ages - something that should have been done years ago. That will help a bit. And NJ is just one of many states in the same mess. I did not make clear that I dislike much of Gov Christie's plans. He is targeting teachers as the cause of many of the state problems (and not targeting firefighters or police who since they tend to vote Repub). He sounds good in sound bites and I hear he is a nice person personally but I hate his politics.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Dome Numbers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shukra69 shukra69@ wrote: Hey Shukra69, I am quite glad you have come on here to FFL willing to defend and speak for the TM-Rajas. I think it is wonderful. You have always seemed to be close to things orthodox TM when you post here. So tell us, how do you see things going for these FF dome meditation numbers? Any ideas how to get the numbers up? You seem to have the voice of the Rajas. What say your Rajas. With Best Regards, -Buck in FF --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, blusc0ut no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shukra69 shukra69@ wrote: Rajas are all sweet and humble people They are sweet and humble, but live in a bubble of their own, and they either don't ever look out, to see what people in the 'real world' are concerned with. Rather they support the disconnect, an increasing number of people have with the movement, by participating in the masquerading. They all bought themselves into positions in the movement in the first, which is ridiculus in itself. They should see, that they are playing something that doesn't exist. doing more than anyone for the betterment of the world. Or so they think. It really ugly to make the kind of comments you have about good people. Humble people like this: http://nosedef.blogspot.com/2009/04/david-lynch-forces-my-video-of-him.html You are getting right into the groove of the blame and complain crowd of this group. Your tone is really intimitating, without saying anything substantial. This kind fascist of mindset, You are making accusations without saying anything substantial, and you are buying into a lot of bs when you say that people bought their way into anything, they made a very self sacrificing donation is what they did. Of course, they bought that position, as you'd have to pay a million(!) bugs to become a raja, and wear a crown. If they just made a *generous* donation, they could lay their crowns down and be ordinary men and be silent about their donation. I am not the slightest bit fascist and neither is any Raja, you are participating in bashing is when you twist what people say and make them out to be fascists. it's that what is wrong with the TMO. You should complain not about Buck, but about me, whom Buck was citing. Buck is very polite and courageous. He has what the Rajas are missing: balls, and a love for truth. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: (5) the end of one cycle is always the beginning of another I wonder, just watching the Aljazeera egypt broadcast, how that would apply to the present situation in the TM movement, which looks like it is in a state of induced coma. Hasn't Maharishi said, the movement belongs to those who move? Hasn't he said in an interview before his death, that all the initiators are his successors. As Judy pointed out recently, nature may 'want' something else despite of our choices. And that may apply to the movement itself. (See, I don't think the Maharishi Effect, if it exists, necessarily always works the way we--including Maharishi--expect or intend it to.) What I am trying to aim at is, that all the crazyness of the movement recently, Rajaism etc. could be just a means to wake the people in the movement up. Obviously nobody in the upper movement has the balls to do something essential to save it. All look paralyzed at each other it seems. Just a thought. BluScout, good observation. Our TM- Rajas are like any of the autocrats of the Arab world right now. Out of control, isolated and just watching what the people are doing. Probably a lot like Mubarac hold up somewhere these last few days watching the news feeds of his people. And wishing to shut down the damn internet. I listened to a person here in FF who was doing a survey of meditators locally looking at housing needs. The person was just surveying to know what people wanted. But was stunned by the extremely vehement and aggravated response that were drawn when the survey questions went over to sthapatya vedic architecture (!). The surveyor was shocked (!) how strong the vehemence was and how it rolled over in to everything about the TMmovement from just asking about SthapatyaV. The survey was not particularly about SthpatyaV. The surveyor was a little shell-shocked that this was in about half of the surveying. -Buck Well, shit yes if they have guts to act. Yep, a great example of this within this particular 'dome number' thread would be these damn TM-Rajas. Take those dome numbers
[FairfieldLife] Infinite Improbability Drive
http://neosurrealism.artdigitaldesign.com/modern-artists/?artworks/digital-art/infinite-improbability-drive.htmlfullsize
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Dome Numbers
Hey Shukra, what say your Rajas? That's fookin' funny Buck! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shukra69 shukra69@ wrote: Hey Shukra69, I am quite glad you have come on here to FFL willing to defend and speak for the TM-Rajas. I think it is wonderful. You have always seemed to be close to things orthodox TM when you post here. So tell us, how do you see things going for these FF dome meditation numbers? Any ideas how to get the numbers up? You seem to have the voice of the Rajas. What say your Rajas. With Best Regards, -Buck in FF --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, blusc0ut no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shukra69 shukra69@ wrote: Rajas are all sweet and humble people They are sweet and humble, but live in a bubble of their own, and they either don't ever look out, to see what people in the 'real world' are concerned with. Rather they support the disconnect, an increasing number of people have with the movement, by participating in the masquerading. They all bought themselves into positions in the movement in the first, which is ridiculus in itself. They should see, that they are playing something that doesn't exist. doing more than anyone for the betterment of the world. Or so they think. It really ugly to make the kind of comments you have about good people. Humble people like this: http://nosedef.blogspot.com/2009/04/david-lynch-forces-my-video-of-him.html You are getting right into the groove of the blame and complain crowd of this group. Your tone is really intimitating, without saying anything substantial. This kind fascist of mindset, You are making accusations without saying anything substantial, and you are buying into a lot of bs when you say that people bought their way into anything, they made a very self sacrificing donation is what they did. Of course, they bought that position, as you'd have to pay a million(!) bugs to become a raja, and wear a crown. If they just made a *generous* donation, they could lay their crowns down and be ordinary men and be silent about their donation. I am not the slightest bit fascist and neither is any Raja, you are participating in bashing is when you twist what people say and make them out to be fascists. it's that what is wrong with the TMO. You should complain not about Buck, but about me, whom Buck was citing. Buck is very polite and courageous. He has what the Rajas are missing: balls, and a love for truth. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: (5) the end of one cycle is always the beginning of another I wonder, just watching the Aljazeera egypt broadcast, how that would apply to the present situation in the TM movement, which looks like it is in a state of induced coma. Hasn't Maharishi said, the movement belongs to those who move? Hasn't he said in an interview before his death, that all the initiators are his successors. As Judy pointed out recently, nature may 'want' something else despite of our choices. And that may apply to the movement itself. (See, I don't think the Maharishi Effect, if it exists, necessarily always works the way we--including Maharishi--expect or intend it to.) What I am trying to aim at is, that all the crazyness of the movement recently, Rajaism etc. could be just a means to wake the people in the movement up. Obviously nobody in the upper movement has the balls to do something essential to save it. All look paralyzed at each other it seems. Just a thought. BluScout, good observation. Our TM- Rajas are like any of the autocrats of the Arab world right now. Out of control, isolated and just watching what the people are doing. Probably a lot like Mubarac hold up somewhere these last few days watching the news feeds of his people. And wishing to shut down the damn internet. I listened to a person here in FF who was doing a survey of meditators locally looking at housing needs. The person was just surveying to know what people wanted. But was stunned by the extremely vehement and aggravated response that were drawn when the survey questions went over to sthapatya vedic architecture (!). The surveyor was shocked (!) how strong the vehemence was and how it rolled over in to everything about the TMmovement from just asking about SthapatyaV. The survey was not particularly about SthpatyaV. The surveyor was a little shell-shocked that this was in
[FairfieldLife] Raja redux
- Subject: Raja redux - Subject: Raja redux http://r9.fodey.com/2145/ae86f1825e964744bb29f86fd1a330a2.0.gif Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by Green Rating at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Post Count
Uh Buck (for some reasons I always think of Showtime's The United States of Tara when I see this handle) , like there is only ONE person who has posted out. And don't think anyone else here minds that one. The second runner up is only at 34. And if a person posted equal numbers of posts each day then today's number would be 28. Most are below that count and only a few SLIGHTLY above. Chill out dude! On 02/15/2011 05:05 PM, Buck wrote: Jeeesus fuking Xhrist. And, it's only Tuesday. Dear Moderators, it would proly be even better here if there was a 30 post limit. It was the best back when we briefly had that. 50 posts per week is way too much to get posted what needs to be said here really. Sure I got memory problems and I can't think now what threads really needed multiple rapid posts in the last few days. I'm always sorry that these people are posting out so soon every week. However even more constraints (30) would help them write even more better here. Our friend Turqb will be out of here soon enough too. I always miss these people as they post out. I appreciate that 103 year-old voice of Turqb's and Judy's sharp mind here too after they strike out. There is a quiet place when they are gone for other things. However, Thirty posts per week would help both them both when they are around. 30. As Turqb posts out I always enjoy listening to the Catch-22 clip to hear his voice when he is not here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bjBAez9cm4 All Blessings, -Buck --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, FFL PostCountffl.postcount@... wrote: Fairfield Life Post Counter === Start Date (UTC): Sat Feb 12 00:00:00 2011 End Date (UTC): Sat Feb 19 00:00:00 2011 420 messages as of (UTC) Wed Feb 16 00:07:04 2011 50 authfriendjstein@... 34 turquoisebno_re...@yahoogroups.com 33 whynotnow7whynotnow7@... 31 blusc0utno_re...@yahoogroups.com 31 Vajvajradhatu@... 28 Joegeezerfreak@... 24 nablusoss1008no_re...@yahoogroups.com 21 wayback71wayback71@... 20 wgm4uwgm4u@... 18 yifuxeroyifuxero@... 17 Bhairitunoozguru@... 13 WillyTexwillytex@... 12 merudandano_re...@yahoogroups.com 12 cardemaisterno_re...@yahoogroups.com 11 Buckdhamiltony2k5@... 9 seventhray1steve.sundur@... 8 Tom Pallthomas.pall@... 7 emptybillemptybill@... 7 Sal Sunshinesalsunshine@... 6 guyfawkes91no_re...@yahoogroups.com 3 jpgillamjpgillam@... 3 Yifu Xeroyifuxero@... 3 Peterdrpetersutphen@... 3 Marciotmer1306@... 3 Johnjr_esq@... 2 danfriedman2002danfriedman2002@... 2 Peter L Sutphendrpetersutphen@... 1 raunchydograunchydog@... 1 hermandan0no_re...@yahoogroups.com 1 feste37feste37@... 1 dharmacentralno_re...@yahoogroups.com 1 WLeed3@... 1 Rick Archerrick@... 1 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 1 Duveyoungno_re...@yahoogroups.com 1 Dick Maysdickmays@... Posters: 36 Saturday Morning 00:00 UTC Rollover Times = Daylight Saving Time (Summer): US Friday evening: PDT 5 PM - MDT 6 PM - CDT 7 PM - EDT 8 PM Europe Saturday: BST 1 AM CEST 2 AM EEST 3 AM Standard Time (Winter): US Friday evening: PST 4 PM - MST 5 PM - CST 6 PM - EST 7 PM Europe Saturday: GMT 12 AM CET 1 AM EET 2 AM For more information on Time Zones: www.worldtimezone.com
