[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > on 3/26/05 2:25 PM, medwards520 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Hi Rick, > > > > About two nights or so ago, I had a dream about Maharishi. During the > > dream, I decided to ask him a question about where the money has been > > going. It took tremedous effort to ask this question during the dream, > > but, I did get the question out. Maharishi seemed displeased that I > > had brought the matter up. > > Ask that kind of question in the waking state in Vlodrop and you'll find > yourself booted out of there pretty quick. > > >I wasn't looking for a confession; since > > this is one of the main topics of discussion at FFL, I just wanted to > > know what was going on. After I had this dream, I thought to myself, I > > should have asked Maharishi for Enlightenment. > > Do you think he could have granted it? Yes, if he felt that I was ready. The point that I was trying to make is that some seekers tune in to their master(s) via dreams. Peace, Marc To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "rudra_joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > About two nights or so ago, I had a dream about Maharishi. During the > dream, I decided to ask him a question about where the money has been > going. It took tremedous effort to ask this question during the dream, > but, I did get the question out. Maharishi seemed displeased that I > had brought the matter up. I wasn't looking for a confession; since > this is one of the main topics of discussion at FFL, I just wanted to > know what was going on. After I had this dream, I thought to myself, I > should have asked Maharishi for Enlightenment. It's not often that I > have dreams about him. I may have to wait several months or even > another year before he shows up in my dream. > > Peace, > Marc > > In dreams since it is all a reflection of your mind, you were Maharishi and you were your regrets. You also felt the need to know the truth over enlightenment even, whatever that signifys to you. > Thanks RJ, actually, I seem to connect to Maharishi via dreams since it wasn't possible to work with him in person. I knew my calling wasn't to become a TM teacher or Governor. I'm glad the search by message number was brought back. It's murder trying to navigate any of the Yahoo! Groups without this feature. Peace, Marc > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
On Mar 27, 2005, at 1:01 PM, anonymousff wrote: I also have had similar experiences regarding the desire to cry that dissolves, especially when I have good strong experiences after my Sidha/TM practice. this also brings me to experience a desire to nullify the whole existence and be in a "cave" mode as you described below. It dose looks like a loop experience that I always thought as my own unstressing. You see more to it and it rings as truth, I'm not sure I fully understand the connections you make to lokas (what is it?) or more important what one needs to learn from it and how not to be stuck in ones own movie that repeats itself. ( I practice TM and Sidhis many years but didn't learn the philosophy behind it or behind the experiences, everything in TMO seems to be just unstressing... ;0 ) I had this on my office computer; sorry for the delay: This illusory sundering of the continuum of plenitude that is the single nature of all entities is a function of the “delusory valuation-absolutization” of thought. This delusory valuation or absolutization—which is inherent to avidya or marigpa—is the result of an activity of the organism that endows the contents of thought with illusory value and illusory truth and importance: a vibratory activity that seems to emanate from, or to be concentrated in, the center of the chest at the level of the heart, “charges” our thoughts with apparent value, truth and importance, even though in themselves these have neither value nor nonvalue, neither truth nor nontruth, neither importance nor nonimportance. Later on we will see that the inner Tantras, and in particular the Atiyoga, divides thoughts into three main types: coarse or discursive, subtle or intuitive, and super-subtle. Our feeling of lack results from the delusory valuation or absolutization of the super-subtle thought-structure known as the “threefold projection,” which consists in the conception that there is an experience (or action, etc.), an experiencer (or agent, etc.) and something experienced (or acted on, etc.), and which involves a directional structuring of experience. When the threefold projection is delusorily valued / absolutized, the illusory, delusive subject-object dichotomy arises, veiling the indivisibility of the Base or zhi as the latter seems to suffer a cleavage and therefore totality seems to be disrupted, and thus giving rise to the subject’s feeling of lack-of-completeness, which is the core of duhkha—that is, of the First Noble Truth. In fact, once there arises the illusory mental subject that experiences itself as intrinsically separate from the rest of the continuum that the single nature of all entities is, that subject experiences the lack of the plentitude and completeness that characterizes this continuum. Though the teachings distinguish between the mind (Skt., chitta; Tib., sem), which is defined as consciousness or awareness of a form, and a series of mental factors or mental events (Skt., chaitasika; Tib., semjung) involved in the cognition of that form, both are indivisible aspects of the cognitive apparatus of deluded beings. In regard to the former, the Abhidharmakosha declares, “consciousness is a selecting awareness,” and also, “perception (involves) a process of singling out.” This refers to the occurrences that take place immediately after consciousness comes to experience itself as separate from the rest of the continuum that the single nature of all entities is: upon facing the continuum of what appears as object, another apparent split takes place in our experience, whereby the continuum of what appears as object is divided into figure and ground. Our attention circumscribes itself to one segment of the sensory field that we find interesting among those that conserve their configuration and that we are used to associate with one of our concepts, singling it out as figure and taking it as object, and leaves the rest of the field sunk in a “penumbra of consciousness,” so that it becomes background. It is at this stage that the mental factor or mental event called “recognition” enters into play, causing us to understand the segment that was singled out in terms of the corresponding concept. (The tendency to single out, within the ever-changing totality of sense-data, segments of this totality that maintain a certain continuity of pattern, is the function of a pre-conceptual interest, which is the precondition for the subsequent application of the concepts that will take part in the recognition of objects. Hence, it is clear that perception is an active process driven by impulses and concepts in our own psyche rather than consisting in the passive reception of data [as both Aristotle and Lenin, among other Western thinkers, wrongly believed].) Though the continuum of what appears as object was split by our own mental functions, we are under the illusion that this split is inherent to a given reality that we take to be self-existent and objective, and thus we thin
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Brigante" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > no wonder MMY and TM > administrators refuse to talk to you. > It is common knowledge that I offered to enter into an exchange with MMY about his biography. However, his response to that letter is not. As for your assertion that TM administrators refuse to talk to me... First I heard of it!! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Brigante" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > So you do not equate the word "suspect" with your remarks above that > you view with "caution" about the "illusion" created? You have a > remarkably weaselly way with words -- no wonder MMY and TM > administrators refuse to talk to you. > Either you really don't understand the content of my postings or you are just out to misrepresent me. Based on your recent responses to me on this newsgroup and TMNEWS I begin to suspect the latter. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
> Again, an instance of how truly weaselly you are. > Does this set you straight? Your display of pique is surprising. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > You describe Rameshwar's biography as "precious," which implies that > > you consider it to be factual and authoritative, yet somehow when > > material from that book appears in "Strange facts about a great > > saint" it somehows becomes suspect? This is nonsense. > > or not remain uncontested. > > You appear confused. I have nowhere stated or implied that the contents > of either Tilwari Rameshwar's biography or Raj Varma's creation is > suspect. > Oh, really? In message 45988, you say: "But anyway, I have come to view MMY's uncle 'Dr' Raj Varma's remarks with some caution since observing that the major part of his 1980 book 'Strange Facts About a Great Saint' was derived from a direct translation of Rameshwar Tiwari's 1965 Hindi biography of Guru Dev and parts of a 1950 compilation of Guru Dev quotations. This creates the illusion to the casual reader that he has contributed a fresh biography. Seemingly his biographical notes, contained in Elsa Dragemark's book, also stem from Rameshwar's precious biography." So you do not equate the word "suspect" with your remarks above that you view with "caution" about the "illusion" created? You have a remarkably weaselly way with words -- no wonder MMY and TM administrators refuse to talk to you. > Remember it was you misquoted my reference to Raj Varma's comments, > comments that were contained not in his book but in Elsa Dragemark's > and therefore my own. I did not claim to be quoting your book -- I merely suggested that my recollection that MMY slept at the foot of Guru Dev's bed came from a reading of your book, and in fact it does say in your book that MMY did sleep on the floor near Guru Dev, the only difference being that MMY slept just outside his door, and not at the foot of the bed as I misrembered it. Again, an instance of how truly weaselly you are. Does this set you straight? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
> You describe Rameshwar's biography as "precious," which implies that > you consider it to be factual and authoritative, yet somehow when > material from that book appears in "Strange facts about a great > saint" it somehows becomes suspect? This is nonsense. > or not remain uncontested. You appear confused. I have nowhere stated or implied that the contents of either Tilwari Rameshwar's biography or Raj Varma's creation is suspect. Remember it was you misquoted my reference to Raj Varma's comments, comments that were contained not in his book but in Elsa Dragemark's and therefore my own. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > At night he lay down outside Guru Dev's door."17 > > > > [Quote from Raj Varma, made in early 1968 and extracted from 'The Way > > to Maharishi's Himalayas' by Elsa Dragemark.] > > For anyone who has visited India, it is a very common sight to see > people lie on the floor. > > But anyway, I have come to view MMY's uncle 'Dr' Raj Varma's remarks > with some caution since observing that the major part of his 1980 > book 'Strange Facts About a Great Saint' was derived from a direct > translation of Rameshwar Tiwari's 1965 Hindi biography of Guru Dev and > parts of a 1950 compilation of Guru Dev quotations. This creates the > illusion to the casual reader that he has contributed a fresh > biography. Seemingly his biographical notes, contained in Elsa > Dragemark's book, also stem from Rameshwar's precious biography. *** You describe Rameshwar's biography as "precious," which implies that you consider it to be factual and authoritative, yet somehow when material from that book appears in "Strange facts about a great saint" it somehows becomes suspect? This is nonsense. It may be fair to accuse Varma of plagiarism (which is a commonplace in the book world -- among many others, famous historian Stephen Ambrose plagiarized considerably http://slate.msn.com/id/2072336/ ), but the underlying facts whether attributed properly in an academic way or not remain uncontested. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
Hi Anon: On Mar 27, 2005, at 1:01 PM, anonymousff wrote: > Would you elaborate on that, what samsara means here and how > would it be created thru that process/experience? Samsara is a 'pattern of suffering'. These are kept going by the "kleshas" you know from the Patanjali sutras (but you will find them in many systems). The basic pattern is to push away experiences we don't like and grasping the ones we do. This sense of struggle is what keeps samsara going. The process of forgetting our own innate spaciousness is the same process that allows dualism/ignorance to prevail. The only way out is to remain in closed eyed transcendence or "get used to" the non-dual state. There are different traditions that do this. > It dose looks like a loop experience that I always thought > as my own unstressing. I call them "loops" too. It's a good experiential word for it. > You see more to it and it rings as truth, I'm not sure I fully > understand > the connections you make to lokas (what is it?) The different types of conditioned thought (thought still caught up in klesha-driven "loops") exist as subtle and super-subtle thoughts which tend to aggregate in specific groupings, or lokas. If you experience them directly, they seem like other dimensions--put they are woven by subtle dualistic thoughts. If you can learn to let them arise naturally, you can learn what thought-patterns are conditioning you. Then you dissolve them. The "movies" lose their energy source. You gain an easier ability to reside in the non-dual state--because you've cut the very root of dualism. This is a very generic presentation. Specific will vary by tradition. -Vaj To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > A turning point for me was when I realized all the experiences my > "Sidhi" practice generating were just samsara. The point I had >always missed was that the experiences were an opportunity to >understand how > samsara was created. Hi, Would you elaborate on that, what samsara means here and how would it be created thru that process/experience? > Immediately on realizing that, at the gap where > the experience left, their arose a great revulsion for samsara. This > bewildered me at first. The desire to cry arose, but immediately > dissolved like a wisp of cloud in the wide blue sky. I had just >been grasping at samsara. I also have had similar experiences regarding the desire to cry that dissolves, especially when I have good strong experiences after my Sidha/TM practice. this also brings me to experience a desire to nullify the whole existence and be in a "cave" mode as you described below. It dose looks like a loop experience that I always thought as my own unstressing. You see more to it and it rings as truth, I'm not sure I fully understand the connections you make to lokas (what is it?) or more important what one needs to learn from it and how not to be stuck in ones own movie that repeats itself. ( I practice TM and Sidhis many years but didn't learn the philosophy behind it or behind the experiences, everything in TMO seems to be just unstressing... ;0 ) Thanks. >After all, I liked having "experiences". But no > one had ever taught what their value--if any--was. > > Later on, one of my teachers told me that this was a major obstacle > (experiences as experience). In the higher teachings where people go > into caves or types of boundaried retreat, they are given methods which > allow experiences of all lokas (dimensions) to come forth. If you > hadn't learned that experiences, in and of themselves, aren't what the > goal is, you can get caught there. In some cases, expert meditators who > went into the caves would go for months, years, even hundreds of > years--all because of the endless display of their own movie. > > Krishna might have said: don't be attached to the movie, but know the > projector and the movie and just try to relax, they're not separate, OK > Arjuna? > > my .02 USD To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
In a message dated 3/26/05 9:49:01 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I believe fundie Christians are already loosing face nationwide, and> it will be a fast downward slide.> I hope you're right, but I won't hold my breath. Oh, please do! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
> I have not had any luck obtaining a first edition of Tiwari's biography, which I would like to > compare with subsequent editions to track any changes/revisions. A friend may have the > original Hindi version, but hasn't been able to find it. He is moving in a week or two and > promises to dig deeper as he packs things up. > > L B S It would be great to have a complete edition of 'Shri Jyotishpeethaddharaka' again. My edition lacks two pages of text and a photograph, but you are welcome to share it. Prem Pasricha's 'Whole Thing Real Thing' lacks a certain amount of the detail of the Hindi volume by Tiwari, although he made a very nice job anyway. However, Raj Varma keeps all the detail which is great. It would be nice to see a new translation of Guru Dev's biography 'Shri Jyotishpeethaddharaka' with perhaps the inclusion of other material that has come to light from Raj Varma, Swami Rama, Dr. Radhakrishnan, Professor Schillp and any others. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
Good morning Alex: On Mar 27, 2005, at 9:22 AM, Alex Stanley wrote: > My history with TM is that I'd start and stop a lot because I'd > become so accustomed to the good experiences that they'd no longer be > perceived as good experiences, and I'd get bored with it. Starting > and stopping created the contrast needed to keep TM interesting for > me. A turning point for me was when I realized all the experiences my "Sidhi" practice generating were just samsara. The point I had always missed was that the experiences were an opportunity to understand how samsara was created. Immediately on realizing that, at the gap where the experience left, their arose a great revulsion for samsara. This bewildered me at first. The desire to cry arose, but immediately dissolved like a wisp of cloud in the wide blue sky. I had just been grasping at samsara. After all, I liked having "experiences". But no one had ever taught what their value--if any--was. Later on, one of my teachers told me that this was a major obstacle (experiences as experience). In the higher teachings where people go into caves or types of boundaried retreat, they are given methods which allow experiences of all lokas (dimensions) to come forth. If you hadn't learned that experiences, in and of themselves, aren't what the goal is, you can get caught there. In some cases, expert meditators who went into the caves would go for months, years, even hundreds of years--all because of the endless display of their own movie. Krishna might have said: don't be attached to the movie, but know the projector and the movie and just try to relax, they're not separate, OK Arjuna? my .02 USD To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
and I'd get bored with it. Startingand stopping created the contrast needed to keep TM interesting forme.Alex---Ditto, except when they were boring experiences.To subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > At night he lay down outside Guru Dev's door."17 > > > > [Quote from Raj Varma, made in early 1968 and extracted from 'The Way > > to Maharishi's Himalayas' by Elsa Dragemark.] > > For anyone who has visited India, it is a very common sight to see > people lie on the floor. > > But anyway, I have come to view MMY's uncle 'Dr' Raj Varma's remarks > with some caution since observing that the major part of his 1980 > book 'Strange Facts About a Great Saint' was derived from a direct > translation of Rameshwar Tiwari's 1965 Hindi biography of Guru Dev and > parts of a 1950 compilation of Guru Dev quotations. This creates the > illusion to the casual reader that he has contributed a fresh > biography. Seemingly his biographical notes, contained in Elsa > Dragemark's book, also stem from Rameshwar's precious biography. That was also my impression when I first compared the two (Whole Thing/Strange Facts). It later occurred to me that they may both have been derived from original material, perhaps the same source as the Upadeshamrit. I am stretching to give Varmaji the benefit of the doubt; Tiwari's work seems to have been a compilation, probably based on the Shankaracharya organization's newspaper, Advice from Shri Shankaracharya. Varma's material follows the same organization as Tiwari's, but also includes the quotes you mentioned and specific incidents based on Varmaji's personal experience with Guru Dev. Plus a few minor additions of uninteresting material such as how many hours it took Guru Dev's sedan to get out of the ashram when the crowds had gathered for his darshan, etc. I have not had any luck obtaining a first edition of Tiwari's biography, which I would like to compare with subsequent editions to track any changes/revisions. A friend may have the original Hindi version, but hasn't been able to find it. He is moving in a week or two and promises to dig deeper as he packs things up. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >snip > > > > > I was always puzzled by Maharishi's recurrent hope > > that some dictator or > > factory owner was going to mandate TM on his > > citizens/employees. He tried > > repeatedly to get this to happen and it always > > flopped. > > It is a rather unusual take on human psychology. Maybe > he thought that if they had good experiences from TM, > that in itself would motivate them to continue > practicing. My history with TM is that I'd start and stop a lot because I'd become so accustomed to the good experiences that they'd no longer be perceived as good experiences, and I'd get bored with it. Starting and stopping created the contrast needed to keep TM interesting for me. Alex To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Brigante" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 3/26/05 6:20:24 P.M. Central Standard Time, > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > > > . The > > > Supreme Court upheld the initial decision in a 1979 ruling. > After > > > several years of steady growth, this same time frame marks the > > > beginning of a decline in the number of new initiates to the > > meditation > > > program. > > > > > > > > > Two things that make people here hopping mad: > > 1. A non-meditating judge in Missouri is sentancing offenders to > TM. > > 2. TM is legally taught as a general school policy in some public > > schools with great success, and with public funds. > > *** > > I'm definitely on the side of kids' learning TM, but because their > meditating parents got them to start, not because they had to as a > school assignment, which I don't see working as a strategy in the U.S. > >>> Yes I agree, but at least for some time in their lives they experience this. It can make a difference to them. We have found that children who practice T.M. for at least three months period duration have better self-esteem, show higher affect, positive affect, show decreased negative feelings about themselves and are more adaptable in how they think about problems and situations," said Dr. Rita Benn, Ph.D. the University of Michigan researcher . Students who do it, like Charlie and his younger brother Evan, say homework doesn't stress them out so much any more. They can concentrate better. "I've been focusing much better, more easily," said Evan. And they get better grades.""" http://cbs2chicago.com/health/local_story_071005948.html > Nevertheless, if the two charter schools do survive, it will be good > for the TM movement, and for the kids involved. However, many charter > schools are having problems, and they can disappear in a hurry: > > http://www.tft250.org/Ohio's_charter_schools.html >> Yes. My only point is that it is legal to teach TM in public schools. It is not illegal. However, I do think that someone should gather up all the related information published in peer-reviewed scientific journals (and because of behavioural and addh problems , even one's like the journal of recidivism last year, and testimony from Judge Mason, plus academic performance research etc.), and compare it to the use of pharmaceuticals used to sedate millions of school students - which doesn't work and is REALLY dangerous, and other approaches, and then sue the state for NOT giving TM to the children. It is almost a crime by neglect (or prejudice against a so called religion). My point is not a personal one. If we as a society value peer- reviewed published research as an indicator of facts, then we actually have no choice at this stage. The research is far more extensive than any drug , faith based program, or pedagogical approach. Of course if these others ever have as much positive peer-reviewed evidence (without the terrible side effects of drugs for example), then they should be instated in schools by law also. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Brigante" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "easyone200" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Brigante" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > TM is being taught with public funds at the charter schools in Mich > > > and MD (and it ain't cheap, $625/yr per student -- see > > > http://geocities.com/bbrigante/updates.html#public ) -- but if > > > somebody with legal standing were to file a lawsuit protesting the > > > use of public funds for TM in these schools, it's very unlikely the > > > TMO would prevail in court. The reason why nobody is making a fuss > so > > > far is that these are charter schools, where parents choose to send > > > their kids, so nobody's kids have to be there unless they want them > > > to. > > > > I Think I will file a suit or tell the local bible thumpers. > > ** > > You would have no legal standing, not being a local or state of > michigan taxpayer. However, feel free to get the bible thumpers going, > they've got to find a new thing once terri schiavo drools her last in a > few hours.>>> The fundie christians are already on this. They are outraged and shouting and waving their arms. Search the internet. However they don't have a legal leg to stand on. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >snip > > > I was always puzzled by Maharishi's recurrent hope > that some dictator or > factory owner was going to mandate TM on his > citizens/employees. He tried > repeatedly to get this to happen and it always > flopped. It is a rather unusual take on human psychology. Maybe he thought that if they had good experiences from TM, that in itself would motivate them to continue practicing. I think Bob's point makes a lot of sense here in that MMY didn't have enough experience/understanding of the Western mind to see that being ordered to do something can result in the exact opposite effect. -Peter > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
> At night he lay down outside Guru Dev's door."17 > > [Quote from Raj Varma, made in early 1968 and extracted from 'The Way > to Maharishi's Himalayas' by Elsa Dragemark.] For anyone who has visited India, it is a very common sight to see people lie on the floor. But anyway, I have come to view MMY's uncle 'Dr' Raj Varma's remarks with some caution since observing that the major part of his 1980 book 'Strange Facts About a Great Saint' was derived from a direct translation of Rameshwar Tiwari's 1965 Hindi biography of Guru Dev and parts of a 1950 compilation of Guru Dev quotations. This creates the illusion to the casual reader that he has contributed a fresh biography. Seemingly his biographical notes, contained in Elsa Dragemark's book, also stem from Rameshwar's precious biography. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
> I can't remember where I heard this about MMY sleeping at the foot of > Guru Dev's bed -- maybe Paul Mason's book? On-line text copy of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi: The Biography of the Man Who Gave Transcendental Meditation to the World currently viewable at http://www.paulmason.info/themaharishi/mmych02.htm "He came to the ashram as a youth bubbling over with mirth, full of energy and joy of living. He became so devoted to his master in everything ... At night he lay down outside Guru Dev's door."17 [Quote from Raj Varma, made in early 1968 and extracted from 'The Way to Maharishi's Himalayas' by Elsa Dragemark.] To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Brigante" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > on 3/26/05 11:11 PM, Bob Brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > > > > However, all this may not make much of a difference, since an actual > > > yogic flyer would be far and away the best advertising possible, and > > > I think a legitimate and convincing demonstration in possible in the > > > near future, > > > > > > What makes you think so? > > * > > My own experiences -- not to brag, but after eating at Taco Bell, I > achieve significant lift-off. I used to hand out See's candies on governor training. That sugar rush is great for lift off. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > on 3/26/05 11:11 PM, Bob Brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > However, all this may not make much of a difference, since an actual > > yogic flyer would be far and away the best advertising possible, and > > I think a legitimate and convincing demonstration in possible in the > > near future, > > What makes you think so? * My own experiences -- not to brag, but after eating at Taco Bell, I achieve significant lift-off. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
on 3/26/05 11:11 PM, Bob Brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > However, all this may not make much of a difference, since an actual > yogic flyer would be far and away the best advertising possible, and > I think a legitimate and convincing demonstration in possible in the > near future, What makes you think so? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Brigante" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > You would have no legal standing, not being a local or state > of michigan taxpayer. However, feel free to get the bible > thumpers going, they've got to find a new thing once terri > schiavo drools her last in a few hours. They've already latched on to that finger found in a bowl of Wendy's chili: http://tinyurl.com/4ouwd To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > on 3/26/05 10:52 PM, Bob Brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > * > > > > People who are ordered to start TM are unlikely to have the same > > interest in continuing as those who had the desire on their own. Bill > > Coors, the beer baron, ordered his execs to start TM, naturally it > > did not work out well: > > > > http://geocities.com/bbrigante/more2.html#coors > > > I was always puzzled by Maharishi's recurrent hope that some dictator or > factory owner was going to mandate TM on his citizens/employees. He tried > repeatedly to get this to happen and it always flopped. *** Right, which is why the movement needs a manager who is familiar with the culture of a country (_and_ is not a fatuous clown like Bevan, Hagelin, blah,blah,blah) to promote TM effectively -- MMY, a Hindu monk, can't be that manager, not even in India (because a recluse monk is a real poor social engineer), which is why he left in the 50s since he realized that he lacked the knowledge of how to promote TM quickly enough: http://geocities.com/bbrigante/comp.html#30 (you have possibly seen this post from me previously) If MMY does not do something dramatic before he dies (and with the announcement of Sat Yuga this July, this is a possibility), sooner or later retard management will be booted out by some organized person who, with the support of all the meditators who are fed up with the useful grandstanding of the current movement, will put the promotion of TM on a rational track. However, all this may not make much of a difference, since an actual yogic flyer would be far and away the best advertising possible, and I think a legitimate and convincing demonstration in possible in the near future, and then it won't matter how messed up the movement is -- MMY used to say that the time would come when people would be banging on the doors of TM teachers late at night demanding to be initiated -- yogic fliers on the evening news (actually flying) would certainly fulfill that forecast. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
on 3/26/05 10:52 PM, Bob Brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > * > > People who are ordered to start TM are unlikely to have the same > interest in continuing as those who had the desire on their own. Bill > Coors, the beer baron, ordered his execs to start TM, naturally it > did not work out well: > > http://geocities.com/bbrigante/more2.html#coors > I was always puzzled by Maharishi's recurrent hope that some dictator or factory owner was going to mandate TM on his citizens/employees. He tried repeatedly to get this to happen and it always flopped. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > In a message dated 3/26/05 6:20:24 P.M. Central Standard Time, > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > . The > > Supreme Court upheld the initial decision in a 1979 ruling. After > > several years of steady growth, this same time frame marks the > > beginning of a decline in the number of new initiates to the > meditation > > program. > > > > > Two things that make people here hopping mad: > 1. A non-meditating judge in Missouri is sentancing offenders to TM. > 2. TM is legally taught as a general school policy in some public > schools with great success, and with public funds. *** I'm definitely on the side of kids' learning TM, but because their meditating parents got them to start, not because they had to as a school assignment, which I don't see working as a strategy in the U.S. Nevertheless, if the two charter schools do survive, it will be good for the TM movement, and for the kids involved. However, many charter schools are having problems, and they can disappear in a hurry: http://www.tft250.org/Ohio's_charter_schools.html To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kenny H" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Anyone remember when the NJ court case and ruling actually took place? > In late 79-early 80, I wrote a grant to the Bd of Ed of the City of > NY, at the request of a middle school principal in the South Bronx, > and ended up getting money and initiating nearly the entire faculty > of this bombed out school in the middle of what had to be the worst > neighborhood in the five boroughs. The principal was so impressed > after the first couple of batches of teachers learned, that he pulled > money earmarked for the school psychologist so the rest of the > faculty could learn. After the 3 days of checking, the 10 day follow > up I never saw any of those people again. > Ken > * People who are ordered to start TM are unlikely to have the same interest in continuing as those who had the desire on their own. Bill Coors, the beer baron, ordered his execs to start TM, naturally it did not work out well: http://geocities.com/bbrigante/more2.html#coors To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > on 3/26/05 7:48 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > Interesting. TWB was a siddha, no wonder! His successor has had some > > interesting things to say about the perversion of Patanjali by MMY. > > > Tat Wala Baba has a successor? What did he say? * http://www.yogiphotos.com/chap8a.html To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > on 3/26/05 7:19 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > >> No it is not. It does not require any belief, or giving up other > >> religions. > > > > It requires you to believe the mantra will work--a mantra from the > > Hindu tantras. It requires you to hear a listing of a common lineage in > > Hinduism. It requires you to be present at a prana-prasthitha rite. No? > > > These TM-in-school programs have only survived because they are off the > radar for most Christians, as is TM. If they began to become more common, > the fundies would go ballistic. Perhaps someday they will lose their clout > and TM or its equivalent will be taught in the schools. The two contract schools (in Baltimore and Detriot) where TM is being used are all-black schools, and it may be that black parents are more willing, given the usually desperately bad conditions prevalent in big city black schools, to experiment with TM to see if it helps their kids. Since no white children are involved, these schools are off the radar of many fundies. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "easyone200" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Brigante" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > TM is being taught with public funds at the charter schools in Mich > > and MD (and it ain't cheap, $625/yr per student -- see > > http://geocities.com/bbrigante/updates.html#public ) -- but if > > somebody with legal standing were to file a lawsuit protesting the > > use of public funds for TM in these schools, it's very unlikely the > > TMO would prevail in court. The reason why nobody is making a fuss so > > far is that these are charter schools, where parents choose to send > > their kids, so nobody's kids have to be there unless they want them > > to. > > I Think I will file a suit or tell the local bible thumpers. ** You would have no legal standing, not being a local or state of michigan taxpayer. However, feel free to get the bible thumpers going, they've got to find a new thing once terri schiavo drools her last in a few hours. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
on 3/26/05 9:36 PM, Kenny H at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > you LIKE starting arguments, don't you!! > kh Who me? Yeah, gotta stir the pot every now and then. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
on 3/26/05 9:38 PM, off_world_beings at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> on 3/26/05 7:19 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> No it is not. It does not require any belief, or giving up other religions. >>> >>> It requires you to believe the mantra will work--a mantra from > the >>> Hindu tantras. It requires you to hear a listing of a common > lineage in >>> Hinduism. It requires you to be present at a prana-prasthitha > rite. No? >>> >> These TM-in-school programs have only survived because they are > off the >> radar for most Christians, as is TM. If they began to become more > common, >> the fundies would go ballistic. Perhaps someday they will lose > their clout >> and TM or its equivalent will be taught in the schools.>> > > I believe fundie Christians are already loosing face nationwide, and > it will be a fast downward slide. > I hope you're right, but I won't hold my breath. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > on 3/26/05 7:19 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > >> No it is not. It does not require any belief, or giving up other > >> religions. > > > > It requires you to believe the mantra will work--a mantra from the > > Hindu tantras. It requires you to hear a listing of a common lineage in > > Hinduism. It requires you to be present at a prana-prasthitha rite. No? > > > These TM-in-school programs have only survived because they are off the > radar for most Christians, as is TM. If they began to become more common, > the fundies would go ballistic. Perhaps someday they will lose their clout > and TM or its equivalent will be taught in the schools.>> I believe fundie Christians are already loosing face nationwide, and it will be a fast downward slide. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
you LIKE starting arguments, don't you!! kh --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > on 3/26/05 7:05 PM, Bob Brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > * > > > > MMY did this for a handful of westerners who kept bugging him that they > > wanted to be celibate monk-types, but after they all were unsuccessful > > in this line of work, MMY quit doing it, right? > > > Right. And since he wasn't overly successful himself, maybe he felt a tad > unqualified to be making brahmacharis. But no sense in rehashing that > discussion. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > In a message dated 3/26/05 6:20:24 P.M. Central Standard Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > . The > Supreme Court upheld the initial decision in a 1979 ruling. After > several years of steady growth, this same time frame marks the > beginning of a decline in the number of new initiates to the meditation > program. > Two things that make people here hopping mad: 1. A non-meditating judge in Missouri is sentancing offenders to TM. 2. TM is legally taught as a general school policy in some public schools with great success, and with public funds. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
Anyone remember when the NJ court case and ruling actually took place? In late 79-early 80, I wrote a grant to the Bd of Ed of the City of NY, at the request of a middle school principal in the South Bronx, and ended up getting money and initiating nearly the entire faculty of this bombed out school in the middle of what had to be the worst neighborhood in the five boroughs. The principal was so impressed after the first couple of batches of teachers learned, that he pulled money earmarked for the school psychologist so the rest of the faculty could learn. After the 3 days of checking, the 10 day follow up I never saw any of those people again. Ken --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "easyone200" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > On Mar 26, 2005, at 7:33 PM, off_world_beings wrote: > > > > > > > Why are you spreading lies Vaj? > > > > > > I'm not. What is present as TM (etc.) is Neo-Vedic Hinduism. I > > would be > > > lying if I told you any different. > > > > > > > > > Why did you so easily spread the lie that TM is illegal to be taught > > in public schools? It has been taught in public schools for over a > > decade. It is legal, and it always will be legal (of course the > > fundie redneck christians will never let it be widespread.) > > > > > > > > > > > > TM is taught in public schools and has been for over 10 years. > > It is > > > > legal to teach TM in public schools and always will be. > > > > > > While I think it is a good idea to teach meditation, I'm not sure > > > teaching TM will always be around in our school systems. Number > > one, I > > > don't have the siddhi of viewing time at the quantum level. Number > > two, > > > eventually people will realize that this is a violation of church > > and > > > state. >>. > > > > > > No it is not. It does not require any belief, or giving up other > > religions. Which almost ALL other religions require. This is US law > > and has been verified at the supreme court level. There is no way > > that this law will change unless Bush succeeds in his fundie crusade > > to become the saviour of us all. Which he won't. Bush has already > > crossed the line with his faith based initiatives, the courts will > > never support an action against such a well scientifically > > documented technique as TM which does not require belief, or giving > > up your religion in any way. > > It can be taught but not with public funds. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
Sal Are you blind? TM is taught in public schools in the US right now. It is legal to do so. What does that tell you about the law? It is possible that the fundie christians will never let it be widespread (but will try as many toxic pharmaceuticals on their addh children as possible.and are REALLY screwing them up.), but that seems unlikely , especially in light of the fact that a judge in Missouri is sentancing people to TM) Two things that make people here hopping mad: 1. A non-meditating judge in Missouri is sentancing offenders to TM. 2. TM is legally taught as a general school policy in some public schools with great success. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mar 26, 2005, at 6:53 PM, off_world_beings wrote: > > > Your mind is tuned to not find it. > > My mind might be, but my search engine isn't, and it didn't find > anything to support your claim either. And it won't, not until Malnak > v Yogi is overturned. I wouldn't hold my breath on thiat one. > > > Ever heard of CBS? (I guess no-one has since you say I am the only > > one who knows that TM is LEGAL to teach in Public Schools. OR > > PERHAPS YOU SHOULD STOP RELYING ON INTERNET BLOGS FOR YOUR NEWS !!!) > > > > http://cbs2chicago.com/health/local_story_071005948.html > > """Three schools nationwide already offer the relaxation technique > > to students, including a private school in Iowa and a public charter > > school in Michigan <(and one in Baltimore)>. > > Students at the Nataki Talibah Schoolhouse in Detroit are part of a > > University of Michigan study to see if meditation really makes a > > difference in their daily lives. > > > The first is a private school, the second a charter school, both of > which are very different from public schools and both of which allow > religious study. > > "the charter school does not have to follow the same rules/regs (with > the exception of standardized testing) as a public school does. Charter > Schools are basically "private/independent public schools" usually > operated by a group of concerned parents, or groups of concerned > individuals. Charter schools receive their funding from the school > district/government and because of this, there can only be a maximum of > 35 hours of religious study (the basics) taught to kids per year." > > http://www.poconocommuter.com/bboard/display_message.asp?mid=850 To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
on 3/26/05 7:48 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Interesting. TWB was a siddha, no wonder! His successor has had some > interesting things to say about the perversion of Patanjali by MMY. > Tat Wala Baba has a successor? What did he say? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
on 3/26/05 7:19 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> No it is not. It does not require any belief, or giving up other >> religions. > > It requires you to believe the mantra will work--a mantra from the > Hindu tantras. It requires you to hear a listing of a common lineage in > Hinduism. It requires you to be present at a prana-prasthitha rite. No? > These TM-in-school programs have only survived because they are off the radar for most Christians, as is TM. If they began to become more common, the fundies would go ballistic. Perhaps someday they will lose their clout and TM or its equivalent will be taught in the schools. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
on 3/26/05 7:05 PM, Bob Brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > * > > MMY did this for a handful of westerners who kept bugging him that they > wanted to be celibate monk-types, but after they all were unsuccessful > in this line of work, MMY quit doing it, right? > Right. And since he wasn't overly successful himself, maybe he felt a tad unqualified to be making brahmacharis. But no sense in rehashing that discussion. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
In a message dated 3/26/05 6:20:24 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: . The Supreme Court upheld the initial decision in a 1979 ruling. After several years of steady growth, this same time frame marks the beginning of a decline in the number of new initiates to the meditation program. I always thought the Jim Jones event in Guiana was a nail in the coffin of the TM movement. People became very wary of cults and cultish figures. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
That's what I figured. Sal On Mar 26, 2005, at 7:55 PM, Bob Brigante wrote: Guess what the private school is? Maharishi School in Fairfield...
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Brigante" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > TM is being taught with public funds at the charter schools in Mich > and MD (and it ain't cheap, $625/yr per student -- see > http://geocities.com/bbrigante/updates.html#public ) -- but if > somebody with legal standing were to file a lawsuit protesting the > use of public funds for TM in these schools, it's very unlikely the > TMO would prevail in court. The reason why nobody is making a fuss so > far is that these are charter schools, where parents choose to send > their kids, so nobody's kids have to be there unless they want them > to. I Think I will file a suit or tell the local bible thumpers. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mar 26, 2005, at 6:53 PM, off_world_beings wrote: > > > Your mind is tuned to not find it. > > My mind might be, but my search engine isn't, and it didn't find > anything to support your claim either. And it won't, not until Malnak > v Yogi is overturned. I wouldn't hold my breath on thiat one. > > > Ever heard of CBS? (I guess no-one has since you say I am the only > > one who knows that TM is LEGAL to teach in Public Schools. OR > > PERHAPS YOU SHOULD STOP RELYING ON INTERNET BLOGS FOR YOUR NEWS !!!) > > > > http://cbs2chicago.com/health/local_story_071005948.html > > """Three schools nationwide already offer the relaxation technique > > to students, including a private school in Iowa and a public charter > > school in Michigan <(and one in Baltimore)>. > > Students at the Nataki Talibah Schoolhouse in Detroit are part of a > > University of Michigan study to see if meditation really makes a > > difference in their daily lives. > > > The first is a private school, the second a charter school, both of > which are very different from public schools and both of which allow > religious study. > Guess what the private school is? Maharishi School in Fairfield... > "the charter school does not have to follow the same rules/regs (with > the exception of standardized testing) as a public school does. Charter > Schools are basically "private/independent public schools" usually > operated by a group of concerned parents, or groups of concerned > individuals. Charter schools receive their funding from the school > district/government and because of this, there can only be a maximum of > 35 hours of religious study (the basics) taught to kids per year." > > http://www.poconocommuter.com/bboard/display_message.asp?mid=850 The whole issue of what is acceptable in public funding of schools and what is not is in question: http://pewforum.org/religion-schools/ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
On Mar 26, 2005, at 8:40 PM, Bob Brigante wrote: > It was not "folly" on MMY's part, it was just a way of dealing with > children who insisted, wrongly as it turns out, that they were > qualified to be Brahmacharis. Interesting if true. > This reminds me of the anecdote in Nancy Cooke de Herrera's > book "Beyond Gurus": a guy walking around MMY's ashram one day in > India came upon MMY and Tat Wala Baba sitting holding hands on the > path. The guy asked if he could join them in meditation and also hold > hands -- TWB and MMY demurred, but the guy insisted, so they said > OK...next thing the guy knew, it was dark and TWB and MMY were long > gone -- the guy had immediately lost consciousness when he held hands > with them. Interesting. TWB was a siddha, no wonder! His successor has had some interesting things to say about the perversion of Patanjali by MMY. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "easyone200" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > On Mar 26, 2005, at 7:33 PM, off_world_beings wrote: > > > > > > > Why are you spreading lies Vaj? > > > > > > I'm not. What is present as TM (etc.) is Neo-Vedic Hinduism. I > > would be > > > lying if I told you any different. > > > > > > > > > Why did you so easily spread the lie that TM is illegal to be taught > > in public schools? It has been taught in public schools for over a > > decade. It is legal, and it always will be legal (of course the > > fundie redneck christians will never let it be widespread.) > > > > > > > > > > > > TM is taught in public schools and has been for over 10 years. > > It is > > > > legal to teach TM in public schools and always will be. > > > > > > While I think it is a good idea to teach meditation, I'm not sure > > > teaching TM will always be around in our school systems. Number > > one, I > > > don't have the siddhi of viewing time at the quantum level. Number > > two, > > > eventually people will realize that this is a violation of church > > and > > > state. >>. > > > > > > No it is not. It does not require any belief, or giving up other > > religions. Which almost ALL other religions require. This is US law > > and has been verified at the supreme court level. There is no way > > that this law will change unless Bush succeeds in his fundie crusade > > to become the saviour of us all. Which he won't. Bush has already > > crossed the line with his faith based initiatives, the courts will > > never support an action against such a well scientifically > > documented technique as TM which does not require belief, or giving > > up your religion in any way. > > It can be taught but not with public funds. ** TM is being taught with public funds at the charter schools in Mich and MD (and it ain't cheap, $625/yr per student -- see http://geocities.com/bbrigante/updates.html#public ) -- but if somebody with legal standing were to file a lawsuit protesting the use of public funds for TM in these schools, it's very unlikely the TMO would prevail in court. The reason why nobody is making a fuss so far is that these are charter schools, where parents choose to send their kids, so nobody's kids have to be there unless they want them to. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Mar 26, 2005, at 8:05 PM, Bob Brigante wrote: > > > MMY did this for a handful of westerners who kept bugging him that they > > wanted to be celibate monk-types, but after they all were unsuccessful > > in this line of work, MMY quit doing it, right? > > Bob, you ask an interesting question! > > It may be possible that MMY realized he was violating Dharma Shastra > (read: "Natural Law") and stopped his folly? * It was not "folly" on MMY's part, it was just a way of dealing with children who insisted, wrongly as it turns out, that they were qualified to be Brahmacharis. This reminds me of the anecdote in Nancy Cooke de Herrera's book "Beyond Gurus": a guy walking around MMY's ashram one day in India came upon MMY and Tat Wala Baba sitting holding hands on the path. The guy asked if he could join them in meditation and also hold hands -- TWB and MMY demurred, but the guy insisted, so they said OK...next thing the guy knew, it was dark and TWB and MMY were long gone -- the guy had immediately lost consciousness when he held hands with them. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
On Mar 26, 2005, at 6:53 PM, off_world_beings wrote: Your mind is tuned to not find it. My mind might be, but my search engine isn't, and it didn't find anything to support your claim either. And it won't, not until Malnak v Yogi is overturned. I wouldn't hold my breath on thiat one. Ever heard of CBS? (I guess no-one has since you say I am the only one who knows that TM is LEGAL to teach in Public Schools. OR PERHAPS YOU SHOULD STOP RELYING ON INTERNET BLOGS FOR YOUR NEWS !!!) http://cbs2chicago.com/health/local_story_071005948.html """Three schools nationwide already offer the relaxation technique to students, including a private school in Iowa and a public charter school in Michigan <(and one in Baltimore)>. Students at the Nataki Talibah Schoolhouse in Detroit are part of a University of Michigan study to see if meditation really makes a difference in their daily lives. The first is a private school, the second a charter school, both of which are very different from public schools and both of which allow religious study. "the charter school does not have to follow the same rules/regs (with the exception of standardized testing) as a public school does. Charter Schools are basically "private/independent public schools" usually operated by a group of concerned parents, or groups of concerned individuals. Charter schools receive their funding from the school district/government and because of this, there can only be a maximum of 35 hours of religious study (the basics) taught to kids per year." http://www.poconocommuter.com/bboard/display_message.asp?mid=850
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > On Mar 26, 2005, at 7:33 PM, off_world_beings wrote: > > > > > Why are you spreading lies Vaj? > > > > I'm not. What is present as TM (etc.) is Neo-Vedic Hinduism. I > would be > > lying if I told you any different. > > > > > Why did you so easily spread the lie that TM is illegal to be taught > in public schools? It has been taught in public schools for over a > decade. It is legal, and it always will be legal (of course the > fundie redneck christians will never let it be widespread.) > > > > > > > > TM is taught in public schools and has been for over 10 years. > It is > > > legal to teach TM in public schools and always will be. > > > > While I think it is a good idea to teach meditation, I'm not sure > > teaching TM will always be around in our school systems. Number > one, I > > don't have the siddhi of viewing time at the quantum level. Number > two, > > eventually people will realize that this is a violation of church > and > > state. >>. > > > No it is not. It does not require any belief, or giving up other > religions. Which almost ALL other religions require. This is US law > and has been verified at the supreme court level. There is no way > that this law will change unless Bush succeeds in his fundie crusade > to become the saviour of us all. Which he won't. Bush has already > crossed the line with his faith based initiatives, the courts will > never support an action against such a well scientifically > documented technique as TM which does not require belief, or giving > up your religion in any way. It can be taught but not with public funds. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
On Mar 26, 2005, at 8:05 PM, Bob Brigante wrote: > MMY did this for a handful of westerners who kept bugging him that they > wanted to be celibate monk-types, but after they all were unsuccessful > in this line of work, MMY quit doing it, right? Bob, you ask an interesting question! It may be possible that MMY realized he was violating Dharma Shastra (read: "Natural Law") and stopped his folly? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
On Mar 26, 2005, at 8:01 PM, off_world_beings wrote: > Why did you so easily spread the lie that TM is illegal to be taught > in public schools? It has been taught in public schools for over a > decade. It is legal, and it always will be legal (of course the > fundie redneck christians will never let it be widespread.) It is illegal to even mention the word "god" in the pledge of allegiance in some places. But it should be allowable to bring Hinduism into the schools? You believe that this is the Vedic tradition, right? >>> >>> TM is taught in public schools and has been for over 10 years. > It is >>> legal to teach TM in public schools and always will be. >> >> While I think it is a good idea to teach meditation, I'm not sure >> teaching TM will always be around in our school systems. Number > one, I >> don't have the siddhi of viewing time at the quantum level. Number > two, >> eventually people will realize that this is a violation of church > and >> state. >>. > > No it is not. It does not require any belief, or giving up other > religions. It requires you to believe the mantra will work--a mantra from the Hindu tantras. It requires you to hear a listing of a common lineage in Hinduism. It requires you to be present at a prana-prasthitha rite. No? -V. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
Hi Peter: On Mar 26, 2005, at 7:32 PM, Peter Sutphen wrote: > The age of enlightenment must be here, Off_world and I > agree upon something! > Sure, MMY appears to do some > pretty whacky things, but to dismiss his enlightened > status is a mistake and to dismiss his techniques > means they simply did not bear fruit for you, that's > all. How would you know if they bore fruit for another or not unless you asked them (or possessed omniscience)? To quote Dr. Pete: "You can't claim to have the experience of others." How, therefore, can you assume to know mine? You know what happens when we assume? > Caste > status, tradition means nothing. That's all crap that > the mind chews on and judges..yes...no...yes...no. Well MMY shouldn't then claim to be adhering to the Dharma shastras as the 'lay of the land' and that we all have our natural place in the hierarchy of creation. He should then be denouncing them as antithetical to evolution of sentience. I don't honestly ever expect this to happen. > Guru Dev, MMY, Punditji. These are three very > big boys! > Indeed! Two billionaires and one infinitely rich. -V. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > on 3/26/05 7:54 AM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > > > On Mar 26, 2005, at 8:31 AM, Rick Archer wrote: > > > >> He did initiate some westerners into Brahmacharya with an elaborate > >> ceremony. > > > > OK, here's a fine point: did he personally initiate them or did he have > > a Brahmin perform the rite? Who performed the upanayama ceremony? > > He did it. I don't know if was an upanayama ceremony. It lasted about an > hour and was done privately for each man. He laid his hands on their heads > and did other stuff. * MMY did this for a handful of westerners who kept bugging him that they wanted to be celibate monk-types, but after they all were unsuccessful in this line of work, MMY quit doing it, right? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > on 3/26/05 1:38 AM, Bob Brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > *** > > > > Think that Bevan has ever slept at the foot of Maharishi's bed? I > > prefer to think that you are kidding yourself, homey. Except possibly > > for a handful of Brahmacharis like Nand Kishore, MMY simply does have > > the closeness that he had with Guru Dev, about which he says: > > > > "And from there on for me the whole thing was very light and > > beautiful, no obstacles, clear, everything. Then I was living around > > him without even feeling that I was living. It's a very genuine > > feeling of complete oneness with Guru Dev, just like that. People who > > have seen me moving with Guru Dev know I was not as if in this > > isolated, single body or something. There was something of a > > universal value." > > > What makes you think that sleeping at the foot of the master's bed is an > essential criterion of discipleship? Even if it were (which it isn't) what > makes you think that Maharishi ever did this? As he told it, he didn't sleep > much. He was always working. I can't remember where I heard this about MMY sleeping at the foot of Guru Dev's bed -- maybe Paul Mason's book? In any event, what MMY had to say about his relationship with Guru Dev indicates a level of closeness (to say the least) that is obviously not involved in MMY's conduct with Bevan or others -- can you imagine Bevan saying (as MMY did above) that ""And from there on for me the whole thing was very light and beautiful, no obstacles, clear, everything. Then I was living around him without even feeling that I was living. It's a very genuine feeling of complete oneness with Guru Dev, just like that. People who have seen me moving with Guru Dev know I was not as if in this isolated, single body or something. There was something of a universal value." > Maharishi has been very involved in the > personal lives of some people, telling them what to wear, buying jewelry for > the ladies - I have no doubt that Tony Nader's plastic surgery was M's idea. You have no doubt, because it suits your agenda, but movement leaders, from Charlie Lutes in 1958 on, have always ended up doing what they wanted to do, regardless of any advice from MMY. If the John Grays and Chopras and Larry Domashes really regarded MMY as their Guru in the way that MMY did with Guru Dev, they would not have left. > A few years ago Mike Tompkins wanted to marry Jeannie Costello. Maharishi > said to him, "What can I offer you to dissuade you from doing this?" Now > Mike is in Uttar Kashi and Jeannie appears very happy with a boyfriend here > in Fairfield. So what? Mike asked MMY's advice, he got it (and what would you expect a celibate monk to say? -- of course, MMY would say to not waste your life in the child's play of marriage, but gain enlightenment) and decided to follow it. >Of course, I don't consider such personal involvement to be a > necessary criterion of a Master-disciple relationship either. But the > difference between most TMers, such is yourself, and someone like Bevan, is > that you can only imagine what M says or does in his close relationships, > whereas Bevan has had such a relationship most of his life. Bevan has had _a_ relationship with MMY, but it is so obviously not the intensely close relationship that MMY had with Guru Dev that you simply can't be serious if you are claiming that it is. >Throughout many > years they have talked almost every day, with Maharishi giving detailed > instructions on Bevan's administrative activities. I talk with the same people every day, and get instructions on my activities from my work supervisor, but this does not constitute a guru-disciple relationship, and neither does Bevan or others vis-a- vis MMY. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Mar 26, 2005, at 7:33 PM, off_world_beings wrote: > > > Why are you spreading lies Vaj? > > I'm not. What is present as TM (etc.) is Neo-Vedic Hinduism. I would be > lying if I told you any different. > Why did you so easily spread the lie that TM is illegal to be taught in public schools? It has been taught in public schools for over a decade. It is legal, and it always will be legal (of course the fundie redneck christians will never let it be widespread.) > > > > TM is taught in public schools and has been for over 10 years. It is > > legal to teach TM in public schools and always will be. > > While I think it is a good idea to teach meditation, I'm not sure > teaching TM will always be around in our school systems. Number one, I > don't have the siddhi of viewing time at the quantum level. Number two, > eventually people will realize that this is a violation of church and > state. >>. No it is not. It does not require any belief, or giving up other religions. Which almost ALL other religions require. This is US law and has been verified at the supreme court level. There is no way that this law will change unless Bush succeeds in his fundie crusade to become the saviour of us all. Which he won't. Bush has already crossed the line with his faith based initiatives, the courts will never support an action against such a well scientifically documented technique as TM which does not require belief, or giving up your religion in any way. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You seem to be the only one that knows that, as there are no articles > on the Web that support that claim. > > Sal > Your mind is tuned to not find it. You'll need to cure yourself of that oneday (not a judgement, just a fact). Ever heard of CBS? (I guess no-one has since you say I am the only one who knows that TM is LEGAL to teach in Public Schools. OR PERHAPS YOU SHOULD STOP RELYING ON INTERNET BLOGS FOR YOUR NEWS !!!) http://cbs2chicago.com/health/local_story_071005948.html """Three schools nationwide already offer the relaxation technique to students, including a private school in Iowa and a public charter school in Michigan <(and one in Baltimore)>. Students at the Nataki Talibah Schoolhouse in Detroit are part of a University of Michigan study to see if meditation really makes a difference in their daily lives. "We have found that children who practice T.M. for at least three months period duration have better self-esteem, show higher affect, positive affect, show decreased negative feelings about themselves and are more adaptable in how they think about problems and situations," said Dr. Rita Benn, Ph.D. the University of Michigan researcher .""" > > On Mar 26, 2005, at 6:26 PM, off_world_beings wrote: > > > > > Wrong. It was overturned, and TM is now being taught in Public > > Schools in the US, and has been for at least 10 years. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
On Mar 26, 2005, at 7:33 PM, off_world_beings wrote: > Why are you spreading lies Vaj? I'm not. What is present as TM (etc.) is Neo-Vedic Hinduism. I would be lying if I told you any different. > > TM is taught in public schools and has been for over 10 years. It is > legal to teach TM in public schools and always will be. While I think it is a good idea to teach meditation, I'm not sure teaching TM will always be around in our school systems. Number one, I don't have the siddhi of viewing time at the quantum level. Number two, eventually people will realize that this is a violation of church and state. The TMO is particularly crafty however at hiding their roots under scientific jargon. Sadly, the people who are most likely to expose this will be fundamentalist or evangelical Christians. -V. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
On Mar 26, 2005, at 7:32 PM, Peter Sutphen wrote: > The age of enlightenment must be here, Off_world and I > agree upon something! Sure, MMY appears to do some > pretty whacky things, but to dismiss his enlightened > status is a mistake and to dismiss his techniques > means they simply did not bear fruit for you, that's > all. Any point value can open to the infinite. Caste > status, tradition means nothing. That's all crap that > the mind chews on and judges..yes...no...yes...no. I'm > happy your techniques and tradition bear fruit for > you. I can say some pretty strong things regarding > MMY's crazy and at times offensive behavior, but I > never can doubt his status as a great realizer of > Brahman. Guru Dev, MMY, Punditji. These are three very > big boys! Was this addressed to me or off_world? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
> Its $2.50 a day over 3 years. Few keep up with it for three years. --- off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > < a pop. > That is criminal.>>> > > > No its not. You are making this up. > > Its $2.50 a day over 3 years. > Which is less than you drink in caffe lattes and > internet connection > each day. > What kind of seeker is not willing to give up cafe > lattes and go back > to dial up in order to evolve? > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Mar 26, 2005, at 7:19 PM, Sal Sunshine wrote: > > > Wrong. TM lost that court case, because it was deemed to have > > religious overtones. > > And of course you are correct Sal. >>. Why are you spreading lies Vaj? This is very suspicious. TM is taught in public schools and has been for over 10 years. It is legal to teach TM in public schools and always will be. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
You seem to be the only one that knows that, as there are no articles on the Web that support that claim. Sal On Mar 26, 2005, at 6:26 PM, off_world_beings wrote: Wrong. It was overturned, and TM is now being taught in Public Schools in the US, and has been for at least 10 years.
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
<>> No its not. You are making this up. Its $2.50 a day over 3 years. Which is less than you drink in caffe lattes and internet connection each day. What kind of seeker is not willing to give up cafe lattes and go back to dial up in order to evolve? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
Comment below: --- off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > On Mar 26, 2005, at 9:16 AM, off_world_beings > wrote: > > > > > Your just mad because TM gets taught in some > public schools in the > US, > > > gets taught to offenders in Missourri, is funded > in research by the > > > NIH, and is soon going to be taught to the US > army(I predict > within 2 > > > years), and has more ACTUAL EVIDENCE for its > efficacy than probably > > > any other technique. > > > > Why am I mad about this? > > > Lol, > Well, lets see Vaj. (Unless I am mixing you up with > someone else, in > which case I apologize and somebody set me > straight). You seemed to be > trying with all your might to show that Maharishi is > not a true guru, > and Guru Dev couldn't pick him out of a crowd if > asked to do so. You > also spend an awful lot of time trying to denounce > him, and also TM as > being no good. You also spent an awful lot of time > trying to convince > me that Buddha did not come from a Vedic tradition, > and (on the other > hand in your dichotomous argument forms)even though > he did, he > renounced it completely. Then you tell us that it is > somehow of SUCH > GREAT IMPORTANCE if Maharishi was a Brahmin caste or > what or is > qualified to be a teacher guru rishi sage . The age of enlightenment must be here, Off_world and I agree upon something! Sure, MMY appears to do some pretty whacky things, but to dismiss his enlightened status is a mistake and to dismiss his techniques means they simply did not bear fruit for you, that's all. Any point value can open to the infinite. Caste status, tradition means nothing. That's all crap that the mind chews on and judges..yes...no...yes...no. I'm happy your techniques and tradition bear fruit for you. I can say some pretty strong things regarding MMY's crazy and at times offensive behavior, but I never can doubt his status as a great realizer of Brahman. Guru Dev, MMY, Punditji. These are three very big boys! -Peter . __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
On Mar 26, 2005, at 7:19 PM, Sal Sunshine wrote: > Wrong. TM lost that court case, because it was deemed to have > religious overtones. And of course you are correct Sal. And it is a bizarre Neo-Hinduism--this is esp. easy to prove every since they took to selling Vedic sacrifices to the Gods and blatantly following the Laws of Manu! -V. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
Wrong. It was overturned, and TM is now being taught in Public Schools in the US, and has been for at least 10 years. The first one I know of was in Washington DC, and goes back before the 1995 DC WPA. (of course the redneck fundie christians will never let it get widespread in Public schools, but it is not illegal to teach TM in public schools, and it never will be) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Wrong. TM lost that court case, because it was deemed to have > religious overtones. > > "The 1977 court ruling, Malnak v. Yogi, dealt a serious blow to the > movement. TM appealed to the New Jersey State Supreme Court claiming > they were not teaching religion, but proven scientific techniques. The > Supreme Court upheld the initial decision in a 1979 ruling. After > several years of steady growth, this same time frame marks the > beginning of a decline in the number of new initiates to the meditation > program. In spite of vigorous protest against claims that TM is a > religion, Bainbridge notes it is not mere coincidence that it is during > this period that the organization took new initiatives that focused on > "supernormal powers."" > > http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/tm.html > > And this: > "However, after 1975, TM's fortunes took another turn. The "number of > new people taking TM courses dropped significantly" (Religious Fringe, > p. 206). In response, "the TM leadership announced an advanced program > which purported to teach meditators to levitate and to vanish at will" > (Ibid.). Such outrageous claims "tarnished the scientific image of TM" > which TM had strived to create and, as a result, the organization lost > credibility (Ibid.). When "a federal court ruled that TM was a > religious practice," and the ruling was upheld in the U.S. Court of > Appeals 3rd Dist. (Malnak v. Yogi), TM was then made "subject to the > establishment clause of the U.S. Constitution" (Religious Fringe, p. > 207), not only denying TM the privilege of receiving federal funds, but > preventing it from being taught in public schools, one of the key > markets for TM (Ibid.). > > In addition to these setbacks, TM began to become criticized as > actually being harmful, rather than beneficial, to some TM > practitioners. In 1978, Psychology Today magazine reported that a > "`substantial number' of meditators developed anxiety, depression, > physical and mental tension and other adverse effects" (San Francisco > Examiner, September 10, 1989, p. E3). "In 1980, the West German > government's Institute for Youth and Society produced a report calling > TM a `psychogroup' and saying that the majority of people who went > through TM experienced psychological or physical disorders" (Edward > Epstein, "Politics and Transcendental Meditation," San Francisco > Chronicle, December 29, 1995, p. A1)" > > http://www.pastornet.net.au/response/articles/87.htm > > I'd say that in referring to it as a 'psychogroup' they might have had > you in mind, off-world. > > > On Mar 26, 2005, at 5:35 PM, off_world_beings wrote: > > > TM was NOT considered a religion by that court case, but your mind > > has turned it into its negative. TM won the case. Get informed ! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
Hi Offie: On Mar 26, 2005, at 6:12 PM, off_world_beings wrote: > Well, lets see Vaj. (Unless I am mixing you up with someone else, in > which case I apologize and somebody set me straight). I could not tell you where your confusion comes from! But I have an idea ;-) > You seemed to be > trying with all your might to show that Maharishi is not a true guru, No, I said MMY was not one for formally accepting sishyas. It now appears this may have been done on his personals assistants, possibly a few others--at having and helping make them Brahmacharis. The movement was at one time a good thing. Now it is much less so. Raja Off World...kinda has a nice ring to it! > > and Guru Dev couldn't pick him out of a crowd if asked to do so. Huh? That's a strange thing to say. > > You hate TM and Maharishi. Huh? > (Unless I am mixing you up with someone else, in which case I > apologize and somebody set me straight). So apologize. > > Therefore , anything that seems like success of TM and Maharishi over > your own movement that you want to start and lord it over everyone... > you are mad about. Nah. I'm really not an angry person. > For example: TM gets taught in some public schools in the US, gets > taught to criminal offenders in Missourri by a judge who does not > meditate, but has seen the postive effects of it, and TM is funded > strongly (10's of millions) in research by the NIH, and has more > ACTUAL EVIDENCE for its efficacy than probably any other technique. > Are you happy that this is the case? I am happy that meditation is being taught. Doesn't matter if it is TM or an other. What DOES matter is if they are charging 2400 USD a pop. That is criminal. Better to use Vipassana like they do in India: cheaper, proven path to enlightenment and more bhang for your buck ;-). And of course it doesn't carry on the now rather weird baggage of the current TMO. -V. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
Wrong. TM lost that court case, because it was deemed to have religious overtones. "The 1977 court ruling, Malnak v. Yogi, dealt a serious blow to the movement. TM appealed to the New Jersey State Supreme Court claiming they were not teaching religion, but proven scientific techniques. The Supreme Court upheld the initial decision in a 1979 ruling. After several years of steady growth, this same time frame marks the beginning of a decline in the number of new initiates to the meditation program. In spite of vigorous protest against claims that TM is a religion, Bainbridge notes it is not mere coincidence that it is during this period that the organization took new initiatives that focused on "supernormal powers."" http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/tm.html And this: "However, after 1975, TM’s fortunes took another turn. The "number of new people taking TM courses dropped significantly" (Religious Fringe, p. 206). In response, "the TM leadership announced an advanced program which purported to teach meditators to levitate and to vanish at will" (Ibid.). Such outrageous claims "tarnished the scientific image of TM" which TM had strived to create and, as a result, the organization lost credibility (Ibid.). When "a federal court ruled that TM was a religious practice," and the ruling was upheld in the U.S. Court of Appeals 3rd Dist. (Malnak v. Yogi), TM was then made "subject to the establishment clause of the U.S. Constitution" (Religious Fringe, p. 207), not only denying TM the privilege of receiving federal funds, but preventing it from being taught in public schools, one of the key markets for TM (Ibid.). In addition to these setbacks, TM began to become criticized as actually being harmful, rather than beneficial, to some TM practitioners. In 1978, Psychology Today magazine reported that a "‘substantial number’ of meditators developed anxiety, depression, physical and mental tension and other adverse effects" (San Francisco Examiner, September 10, 1989, p. E3). "In 1980, the West German government’s Institute for Youth and Society produced a report calling TM a ‘psychogroup’ and saying that the majority of people who went through TM experienced psychological or physical disorders" (Edward Epstein, "Politics and Transcendental Meditation," San Francisco Chronicle, December 29, 1995, p. A1)" http://www.pastornet.net.au/response/articles/87.htm I'd say that in referring to it as a 'psychogroup' they might have had you in mind, off-world. On Mar 26, 2005, at 5:35 PM, off_world_beings wrote: > TM was NOT considered a religion by that court case, but your mind > has turned it into its negative. TM won the case. Get informed ! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
WOW ! This really goes to how out of touch and prejuduced you really are. No wonder you are always badmouthing TM. TM was NOT considered a religion by that court case, but your mind has turned it into its negative. TM won the case. Get informed ! Secondly TM is taught in a Public school in a Chicago with great success, and in a public school in, I think Baltimore. There may be others. Those public school principles that have used it are very happy with it. I can't find the whole article , but last year TIME magazine had an article on meditation, and probably half the cases they talked about (incuding the Chicago public school) were about TM. http://www.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,1101030804,00.html TM is also given by a non-maditating judge in Missourri to criminal offenders. He is VERY impressed with the results --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Which public schools? Wasn't there a court case a while back in which > TM was shown to have religious content and therefore could not be > taught in *any* public schools? If that's changed, I don't think > anyone else knows about it. > > Sal > > > On Mar 26, 2005, at 5:12 PM, off_world_beings wrote: > > > TM gets taught in some public schools in the US To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
Which public schools? Wasn't there a court case a while back in which TM was shown to have religious content and therefore could not be taught in *any* public schools? If that's changed, I don't think anyone else knows about it. Sal On Mar 26, 2005, at 5:12 PM, off_world_beings wrote: TM gets taught in some public schools in the US
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Mar 26, 2005, at 9:16 AM, off_world_beings wrote: > > > Your just mad because TM gets taught in some public schools in the US, > > gets taught to offenders in Missourri, is funded in research by the > > NIH, and is soon going to be taught to the US army(I predict within 2 > > years), and has more ACTUAL EVIDENCE for its efficacy than probably > > any other technique. > > Why am I mad about this? Lol, Well, lets see Vaj. (Unless I am mixing you up with someone else, in which case I apologize and somebody set me straight). You seemed to be trying with all your might to show that Maharishi is not a true guru, and Guru Dev couldn't pick him out of a crowd if asked to do so. You also spend an awful lot of time trying to denounce him, and also TM as being no good. You also spent an awful lot of time trying to convince me that Buddha did not come from a Vedic tradition, and (on the other hand in your dichotomous argument forms)even though he did, he renounced it completely. Then you tell us that it is somehow of SUCH GREAT IMPORTANCE if Maharishi was a Brahmin caste or what or is qualified to be a teacher guru rishi sage . You hate TM and Maharishi. (Unless I am mixing you up with someone else, in which case I apologize and somebody set me straight). Therefore , anything that seems like success of TM and Maharishi over your own movement that you want to start and lord it over everyone... you are mad about. For example: TM gets taught in some public schools in the US, gets taught to criminal offenders in Missourri by a judge who does not meditate, but has seen the postive effects of it, and TM is funded strongly (10's of millions) in research by the NIH, and has more ACTUAL EVIDENCE for its efficacy than probably any other technique. Are you happy that this is the case? It ok, it makes a lot of people on this board mad too. (oops , I just set the cat among the pidgeonswho!) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > So the other Shankaracharyas are chopped liver? The > > fact that Swaroop had face time with Guru Dev doesn't > > mean anything. Guru Dev's master had many disciples, > > but we only hear about Guru Dev because good disciples > > are few and far between. In other traditions, Judas > > was a disciple, too, but just not a very good one. I > > would suggest the litmus test for whether Swaroopanand > > is a legitimate Shankaracharya would be if he supports > > Maharishi's campaign to enlighten the world -- since > > he obviously does not, then darkness has placed him in > > a seat that his level of consciousness does not > > qualify him for. > > Swaroopanand Ji was not just another devotee, he was one of the inner > circle of chelas. > > There are several very useful books available of Shantanand Ji, > another of Gurudev's chelas, from the Study Society. > > But the test of a good disciple of Gurudev is not necessarilly > that 'we' hear about them. > > And actually 'we' do not hear about Guru Dev. That is why he has his > own webpage on my site > http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/gurudev.htm As a matter of fact, Guru Dev was so very well-known in India that the first President of India paid tribute to him. Swaroopanand is strictly power-hungry, claiming title to not one, but two seats of the Shankaracharya tradition, and seeking to unseat the current Kanchi seer, in order to magnify his power. But regardless of whether Swaroopananda is any good or not, the original post was about the fact that Vedic instruction was associated with a preceptor's fee, the Gurudakshina, which is easily verified with examples like Krishna's payment to his guru. Claiming that MMY is breaking with Vedic tradition by front-loading the preceptor's fee for Vedic instruction (which is far more than "selling a mantra") is nonsense, and you have failed to acknowledge that. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
On Mar 26, 2005, at 11:10 AM, Rick Archer wrote: > He did it. I don't know if was an upanayama ceremony. It lasted about > an > hour and was done privately for each man. He laid his hands on their > heads > and did other stuff. > Thanks for sharing that--that was beautiful to hear. I don't want to give people the impression that I am anti-TM, I just feel the movement has lost it's impetus as an evolutionary agent. Therefore I do not recommend people take initiation there unless they really feel some personal draw--and can afford it. I had a personal time of deep, deep devotion to MMY which culminated in what I can only call 'meeting Maharishi in consciousness'. The tension which had built up of deep unanswered questions was released, as was anything else I could gain from that movement. I was like I was set free. Answers I desired just presented themselves. Best, -V. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
In a message dated 3/26/05 4:11:57 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Mar 26, 2005, at 9:16 AM, off_world_beings wrote:> Your just mad because TM gets taught in some public schools in the US,> gets taught to offenders in Missourri, is funded in research by the> NIH, and is soon going to be taught to the US army(I predict within 2> years), and has more ACTUAL EVIDENCE for its efficacy than probably> any other technique.Why am I mad about this? Just because! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
On Mar 26, 2005, at 9:16 AM, off_world_beings wrote: > Your just mad because TM gets taught in some public schools in the US, > gets taught to offenders in Missourri, is funded in research by the > NIH, and is soon going to be taught to the US army(I predict within 2 > years), and has more ACTUAL EVIDENCE for its efficacy than probably > any other technique. Why am I mad about this? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
About two nights or so ago, I had a dream about Maharishi. During thedream, I decided to ask him a question about where the money has beengoing. It took tremedous effort to ask this question during the dream,but, I did get the question out. Maharishi seemed displeased that Ihad brought the matter up. I wasn't looking for a confession; sincethis is one of the main topics of discussion at FFL, I just wanted toknow what was going on. After I had this dream, I thought to myself, Ishould have asked Maharishi for Enlightenment. It's not often that Ihave dreams about him. I may have to wait several months or evenanother year before he shows up in my dream. Peace,MarcIn dreams since it is all a reflection of your mind, you were Maharishi and you were your regrets. You also felt the need to know the truth over enlightenment even, whatever that signifys to you.To subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
on 3/26/05 2:25 PM, medwards520 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hi Rick, > > About two nights or so ago, I had a dream about Maharishi. During the > dream, I decided to ask him a question about where the money has been > going. It took tremedous effort to ask this question during the dream, > but, I did get the question out. Maharishi seemed displeased that I > had brought the matter up. Ask that kind of question in the waking state in Vlodrop and you'll find yourself booted out of there pretty quick. >I wasn't looking for a confession; since > this is one of the main topics of discussion at FFL, I just wanted to > know what was going on. After I had this dream, I thought to myself, I > should have asked Maharishi for Enlightenment. Do you think he could have granted it? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > on 3/26/05 6:39 AM, Peter Sutphen at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > As I get more involved with Punditji it's becoming > > clearer and clearer that there is an inner and an > > outer relationship with the guru. The outer > > relationship means, essentially, nothing. You can tell > > absolutely nothing of the inner relationship from the > > outer relationship of another. We know nothing of the > > inner relationship Bevan, Tony, or the dedicated > > "renegade" TM teacher has with MMY. The inner > > relationship is the important one and that is > > profoundly personal and only known to you and YOU(the > > guru). > > -Peter > > > And someone physically distant from the guru may in reality be much closer > than someone physically close. Hi Rick, About two nights or so ago, I had a dream about Maharishi. During the dream, I decided to ask him a question about where the money has been going. It took tremedous effort to ask this question during the dream, but, I did get the question out. Maharishi seemed displeased that I had brought the matter up. I wasn't looking for a confession; since this is one of the main topics of discussion at FFL, I just wanted to know what was going on. After I had this dream, I thought to myself, I should have asked Maharishi for Enlightenment. It's not often that I have dreams about him. I may have to wait several months or even another year before he shows up in my dream. Peace, Marc To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
So Maharishi performed some type of "official" ceremony so a handful of people could be officially called disciples, big whoop. Is there a rulebook that describes a guru-disciple relationship? If so does it specifically void relationships that are absent this.some ceremony? Isn't the guru disciple relationship based on something more than a ceremony? I would imagine the entirety of purusha and mother divine would claim they have a direct guru-disciple relationship with Maharishi. I would imagine that the dedicated staff/faculty members at MUM would cliam a guru-disciple relationship. The same for the well-to-do who have lived in FF for many years now and offer money whenever money is needed. Maharishi may not descrbe these people as his disciples but I can't imagine that it is anything but. They look to him for guidance in every aspect of their lives, they imagine, based on the "knowing me in your heart" that M has described, his thoughts on every issue. And Maharishi is not lacking in advice and never has been, even if his advice is to be self-sufficient.Yet, even with this advice of his (self-sufficiency) he is never lacking in specific, though perhaps general, advice/guidance. Ken --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > on 3/26/05 7:54 AM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > > > On Mar 26, 2005, at 8:31 AM, Rick Archer wrote: > > > >> He did initiate some westerners into Brahmacharya with an elaborate > >> ceremony. > > > > OK, here's a fine point: did he personally initiate them or did he have > > a Brahmin perform the rite? Who performed the upanayama ceremony? > > He did it. I don't know if was an upanayama ceremony. It lasted about an > hour and was done privately for each man. He laid his hands on their heads > and did other stuff. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
on 3/26/05 7:54 AM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > On Mar 26, 2005, at 8:31 AM, Rick Archer wrote: > >> He did initiate some westerners into Brahmacharya with an elaborate >> ceremony. > > OK, here's a fine point: did he personally initiate them or did he have > a Brahmin perform the rite? Who performed the upanayama ceremony? He did it. I don't know if was an upanayama ceremony. It lasted about an hour and was done privately for each man. He laid his hands on their heads and did other stuff. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
on 3/26/05 7:50 AM, Paul Mason at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> He did initiate some westerners into Brahmacharya with an elaborate >> ceremony. > > Would you elaborate on that please? I just emailed a friend of mine who underwent that initiation and asked him if he would be willing to have his story posted here. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > snip > As I get more involved with Punditji it's becoming > clearer and clearer that there is an inner and an > outer relationship with the guru. The outer > relationship means, essentially, nothing. You can tell > absolutely nothing of the inner relationship from the > outer relationship of another. We know nothing of the > inner relationship Bevan, Tony, or the dedicated > "renegade" TM teacher has with MMY. The inner > relationship is the important one and that is > profoundly personal and only known to you and YOU(the > guru). > -Peter Nice to see it acknowledged in this forum that it is in fact possible to have such an inner relationship with MMY. But why limit it to only to TM-teachers? Allow me to quote the Man himself on the subject: "Who is a disciple?" To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "rudra_joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > with Maharishi giving detailed > instructions on Bevan's administrative activities. > > > so i'm just curious what bevan will do without a tm movement. Well, Guru Dev's admin man took a trip to South India about two years after his boss demised. The rest is his story or more accurately the TM Story. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
with Maharishi giving detailedinstructions on Bevan's administrative activities.so i'm just curious what bevan will do without a tm movement. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > on 3/26/05 1:38 AM, Bob Brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > difference between most TMers, such is yourself, and someone like Bevan, is > that you can only imagine what M says or does in his close relationships, > whereas Bevan has had such a relationship most of his life. Throughout many > years they have talked almost every day, with Maharishi giving detailed > instructions on Bevan's administrative activities. As you say, Bevan has the hot-line. I first met Bevan almost 35 years ago in 1970 when he gave my girlfriend and myself an intro talk in his room at Maharishi Ashram. He was then attired as a brahmachari, in white chadda and with his hair long and with a beard, and somewhat undernourished. He explained his total committment to MMY and confided MMY's desire to begin an eductional aspect of his movement. He also explained that this would entail his (Bevan's) attending university in Britain. One evening I met him as he returned from the local village with a big portion of barfi (fudge). Noticing my surprise he shyly admitted it was MMY who had suggested he get the barfi - I believe MMY was then in Canada! [Bevan and I kept in touch by exchange of letters and the next time I saw him he was shorn, shaved and looking proper job.] To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Mar 26, 2005, at 8:31 AM, Rick Archer wrote: > > > He did initiate some westerners into Brahmacharya with an elaborate > > ceremony. > > OK, here's a fine point: did he personally initiate them or did he have > a Brahmin perform the rite? Who performed the upanayama ceremony? > >>> Brahmin sshmamin. Man you are a control freak. You probably want to start your own movement don't ya. It doesn't matter if the guru is a woman, sudra, or a fvcking fish jumped out of the ocean. The knowledge is spread, and people practice it according to the teaching. Your just mad because TM gets taught in some public schools in the US, gets taught to offenders in Missourri, is funded in research by the NIH, and is soon going to be taught to the US army(I predict within 2 years), and has more ACTUAL EVIDENCE for its efficacy than probably any other technique. Yea, Maharishi is not a guru..right. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
As I get more involved with Punditji it's becomingclearer and clearer that there is an inner and anouter relationship with the guru. The outerrelationship means, essentially, nothing. You can tellabsolutely nothing of the inner relationship from theouter relationship of another. We know nothing of theinner relationship Bevan, Tony, or the dedicated"renegade" TM teacher has with MMY. The innerrelationship is the important one and that isprofoundly personal and only known to you and YOU(theguru).-Peter I don't know. I can't say, but doesn't one have the same relationship with any personal icon? What about rock groupies, is not their idol in an inner/outer relationship with great disparity? > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to:> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/> and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ To subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
Perhaps it doesn't work for you. You can't claim tohave the experience of others. -PeterIt's not that it works or that it doesn't work. It's the denigration of all past traditions in the simple phrase, "Spiritual Regeneration," or other (tmed) Maharishisms. It's not the purity of the teaching that is in question but the purity of wisdom of the teaching. (Since through research I have come to love the TM mantras, as mantras taken from the Sri Vidya, and hence MMY's Mahalakshmi connection). But I think that we Americans are wiser now and have more Eastern knowledge than ever before. I mean, today many could hold down with Blavatsky and Crowley and other Western/Eastern pioneers. And better yet because many other traditions have their extensions in America now we can pick and choose and discern the truth for ourselves without interpreters any longer. And this is the main thing here. There's more information so lack of explanation for ones motives could easily dismissed as crackpot. We've had wayward gurus galore so we can now easily suspect everyone's motives. The only truth is that one which has been distilled and served up fine as liquer. Other truths are merely grapes waiting to be mashed. Maharishi Mishmashed. And registered for Varma/Srivistava profit (I hate saying that but it's obvious as a broken toe). The truth is like gimel. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
Peter Sutphen at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > As I get more involved with Punditji it's becoming > > clearer and clearer that there is an inner and an > > outer relationship with the guru. The outer > > relationship means, essentially, nothing. You can tell > > absolutely nothing of the inner relationship from the > > outer relationship of another. We know nothing of the > > inner relationship Bevan, Tony, or the dedicated > > "renegade" TM teacher has with MMY. The inner > > relationship is the important one and that is > > profoundly personal and only known to you and YOU(the > > guru). > > -Peter Rick wrote: > > > And someone physically distant from the guru may in reality be much closer > than someone physically close. Rory wrote: Absolutely. Time and space mean absolutely nothing. *lol* To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
On Mar 26, 2005, at 8:31 AM, Rick Archer wrote: > He did initiate some westerners into Brahmacharya with an elaborate > ceremony. OK, here's a fine point: did he personally initiate them or did he have a Brahmin perform the rite? Who performed the upanayama ceremony? > I don't know about formal definition of guruhood. I suppose that > by some definitions, Maharishi was never a guru to anyone. I believe this is a fair and honest statement. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
> He did initiate some westerners into Brahmacharya with an elaborate > ceremony. Would you elaborate on that please? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
on 3/26/05 6:39 AM, Peter Sutphen at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > As I get more involved with Punditji it's becoming > clearer and clearer that there is an inner and an > outer relationship with the guru. The outer > relationship means, essentially, nothing. You can tell > absolutely nothing of the inner relationship from the > outer relationship of another. We know nothing of the > inner relationship Bevan, Tony, or the dedicated > "renegade" TM teacher has with MMY. The inner > relationship is the important one and that is > profoundly personal and only known to you and YOU(the > guru). > -Peter > And someone physically distant from the guru may in reality be much closer than someone physically close. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
on 3/26/05 6:32 AM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > On Mar 26, 2005, at 1:09 AM, Rick Archer wrote: > >> No one can be a personal guru to the masses, but you're kidding >> yourself if >> you don't think he had a very close guru/diciple relationship with the >> inner >> circle > > The guru-disciple relationship is a formal one and not merely indicated > by proximity. > > Do you have any evidence that formal guru-sishya initiation took place? > He did initiate some westerners into Brahmacharya with an elaborate ceremony. I don't know about formal definition of guruhood. I suppose that by some definitions, Maharishi was never a guru to anyone. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
On Mar 26, 2005, at 7:42 AM, off_world_beings wrote:
> Dream on pal.
> I guess you never got to do the yogic flying. It is realBIG
> TIME.
Been there, done that. Like I said, yeah you can get some benefit from
it. I did. But it's better to have a real initiation into Patanjali and
Samkhya by a Samkhya-charya.
I think, at one time, TM and the TM-Sidhi program was a great starting
point and a great stepping stone. But 'the movement has left the
movement'. Evolution moves.
Just don't expect to have an org devoted so strictly to the Dharma
Shastras ("Natural Law") to suddenly start breaking the code of
"Natural Law" and have MMY start acting like a Brahmin. It ain't gonna
happen. If it does, he's violating the very "Natural Law" he so
strenuously declares.
I think it is important to understand the broader context and not be
hoodwinked by spin. Otherwise you can just end up being money-cows for
Hindu Nationalism and Hindu fundamentalism. It's always important to
know the truth and its always important to be honest with what is true.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
on 3/26/05 1:38 AM, Bob Brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > *** > > Think that Bevan has ever slept at the foot of Maharishi's bed? I > prefer to think that you are kidding yourself, homey. Except possibly > for a handful of Brahmacharis like Nand Kishore, MMY simply does have > the closeness that he had with Guru Dev, about which he says: > > "And from there on for me the whole thing was very light and > beautiful, no obstacles, clear, everything. Then I was living around > him without even feeling that I was living. It's a very genuine > feeling of complete oneness with Guru Dev, just like that. People who > have seen me moving with Guru Dev know I was not as if in this > isolated, single body or something. There was something of a > universal value." > What makes you think that sleeping at the foot of the master's bed is an essential criterion of discipleship? Even if it were (which it isn't) what makes you think that Maharishi ever did this? As he told it, he didn't sleep much. He was always working. Maharishi has been very involved in the personal lives of some people, telling them what to wear, buying jewelry for the ladies - I have no doubt that Tony Nader's plastic surgery was M's idea. A few years ago Mike Tompkins wanted to marry Jeannie Costello. Maharishi said to him, "What can I offer you to dissuade you from doing this?" Now Mike is in Uttar Kashi and Jeannie appears very happy with a boyfriend here in Fairfield. Of course, I don't consider such personal involvement to be a necessary criterion of a Master-disciple relationship either. But the difference between most TMers, such is yourself, and someone like Bevan, is that you can only imagine what M says or does in his close relationships, whereas Bevan has had such a relationship most of his life. Throughout many years they have talked almost every day, with Maharishi giving detailed instructions on Bevan's administrative activities. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > You are right, he does use many of the props and a > > lot of the pretense. > > > > We're talking about McDonald's drive-thru style > > meditation here. It > > ain't 'the real thing' despite 'millions being > > served'. Peter wrote: > Perhaps it doesn't work for you. You can't claim to > have the experience of others. > -Peter > Have to agree with Peter. I know of a number of Masters who have enlivened the Tradition within themselves working entirely or primarily from TM. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Mar 26, 2005, at 12:43 AM, Kenny H wrote: > > > I thoroughly disagree with this statement though I have heard people > > say it for years now and have hear Maharishi imtimate it. However, > > when you sit up in front of people and wait until someone puts your > > deerskin down before you get seated. when everyone stands up when you > > come in the room, and waits for you to sit down and then sit down, > > when they hang on your every word and you have words to direct every > > aspect of a person's life, when you give people blessings to get > > married or advise against it, when you have men and women leading > > monkish lives and following your every advice, when you have a > > university in your own name and the basis of the universisty is > > development of consciousness, when people follow rigorous diets and > > follow what appear to be extreme suggestions for improving healtn and > > the many others things I have left out, it is pretty hard to claim > > non-Guruhood. > > The nature of the Guru-Student relationship is more personal than any > of the above. And if we are talking of "purity of the Vedic tradition" > I doubt he would avoid the formal rite for this relationship (of > student and Guru) and the giving of a guru-mantra (a mantra which helps > you not only keep contact, but allows you to unite your consciousness > to the teachers) which is the vehicle for lineal transmission. > > You are right, he does use many of the props and a lot of the pretense. > > We're talking about McDonald's drive-thru style meditation here. It > ain't 'the real thing' despite 'millions being served'.>> Dream on pal. I guess you never got to do the yogic flying. It is realBIG TIME. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
On Mar 26, 2005, at 7:29 AM, Peter Sutphen wrote: > Perhaps it doesn't work for you. You can't claim to > have the experience of others. So you are saying you have witnessed MMY formally accepting sishyas? That's the point here, not that people do not or cannot derive some benefit from him or have a relationship with MMY--or for that matter believe he is their guru. People are free to believe whatever they want. But can you tell me, in an org so obsessed with alleged traditional purity that there is a formal acceptance of sishyas? I say there is none--at least that westerners will ever receive. Of course I am always open to changing this opinion if there is clear evidence to the contrary. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
