subject:"Nylgut"

[LUTE] Re: Broeken nylgut string

2018-02-19 Thread Leonard Williams

   While string quaity has been an issue for me (using gut),  another
   factor to consider may be the location of the break:  my strings tend
   to wear and fray either at the point of plucking or somewhere near the
   most used frets (2nd and 3rd).  This has often enough been due to
   rough, calloused skin in cold weather; or inattention to nail care.

   Leonard Williams
   -Original Message-
   From: Dan Winheld <dwinh...@lmi.net>
   To: Wim Loos <wjglso...@gmail.com>; LuteNet list
   <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Sent: Mon, Feb 19, 2018 11:54 am
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Broeken nylgut string
   Wim-
   No clue as to cause of the breakage until you supply essential
   information:
   1. String length- nut to bridge?
   2. A= ? 440, 415, 465, 392 - other?
   While stronger than equivalent gut, nylgut (especially the 1st
   generation, dead white stuff) is much more delicate than equivalent
   tension nylon or KF. The later, more yellow New Nylgut is stronger but
   still nowhere near as tough as the other synthetics.
   First thing in any case, get a good magnifier and check the nut and
   bridge for any irregularities that could snag the string, any rough
   spots that could abrade the string, A sharp "V" shape groove, too
   deeply
   cut in the nut is a fine way to jam a string as you fruitlessly try to
   wind it up to pitch. Take care of that stuff first, then assess the
   other factors.
   Dan
   On 2/18/2018 11:27 PM, Wim Loos wrote:
   > Dear luteplayers,
   > Within a relative short periode, two times my g' (0.44mm nylgut) on a
   > 7-c Renaissance lute has broken. Sounds this familliar to you? What
   do
   > you suggest as an alternative.
   > Wim Loos
   >
   > --
   >
   >
   > To get on or off this list see list information at
   > [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   >

   --

References

   1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Broeken nylgut string

2018-02-19 Thread Matthew Daillie


On 19/02/2018 17:53, Dan Winheld wrote:
While stronger than equivalent gut, nylgut (especially the 1st 
generation, dead white stuff) is much more delicate than equivalent 
tension nylon or KF. The later, more yellow New Nylgut is stronger but 
still nowhere near as tough as the other synthetics. 


Unfortunately one cannot classify nylgut simply as 'White' or 'yellow 
New' as there have been numerous incarnations of both (the later white 
stuff was actually pretty good, more satisfactory to my mind than some 
of the strings produced recently).


Best,

Matthew



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Broeken nylgut string

2018-02-19 Thread Dan Winheld


Wim-

No clue as to cause of the breakage until you supply essential information:

1. String length- nut to bridge?
2. A= ? 440, 415, 465, 392 - other?

While stronger than equivalent gut, nylgut (especially the 1st 
generation, dead white stuff) is much more delicate than equivalent 
tension nylon or KF. The later, more yellow New Nylgut is stronger but 
still nowhere near as tough as the other synthetics.


First thing in any case, get a good magnifier and check the nut and 
bridge for any irregularities that could snag the string, any rough 
spots that could abrade the string, A sharp "V" shape groove, too deeply 
cut in the nut is a fine way to jam a string as you fruitlessly try to 
wind it up to pitch. Take care of that stuff first, then assess the 
other factors.


Dan

On 2/18/2018 11:27 PM, Wim Loos wrote:

Dear luteplayers,
Within a relative short periode, two times my g' (0.44mm nylgut) on a
7-c Renaissance lute has broken. Sounds this familliar to you? What do
you suggest as an alternative.
Wim Loos

--


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Broeken nylgut string

2018-02-19 Thread Mimmo - Aquila Corde Armoniche

The problem of breackage of the thinner Nylgut strings was caused by some inner 
 extruder parameters. The extrusion thecnology  is very complex, so the 
problemi s not just related to the common knowledges in matter of breaking 
index etc . On this fyeld I am learning everyday something of new.
I would like to say that I have fixed this problem a few months ago, around the 
2017 summer.   Always I had breakages on my renaissance lute of 61 cms tuned in 
G. This intrumentis my tester because there is no rider on the 1st string than 
can give an help. They are 5 months that it it tuned in A without any problem. 
 After a couple of months I have asked to our  early music distribitors and,  
since now, the problem of breakages drastically dropped.
Just to inform you guys.
Mimmo

-Messaggio originale-
Da: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Per conto di 
Matthew Daillie
Inviato: lunedì 19 febbraio 2018 11:39
A: Martyn Hodgson <hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: Wim Loos <wjglso...@gmail.com>; LuteNet list <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Oggetto: [LUTE] Re: Broeken nylgut string

I was presuming a pitch of 440 but Wim mentions neither pitch nor string length.

> On Feb 19, 2018, at 11:22, Martyn Hodgson <hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu> 
> wrote:
> 
> A nylgut string of 0.44 on a lute of 60cmm string length at A415

To get on or off this list see list information at 
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Broeken nylgut string

2018-02-19 Thread Matthew Daillie

I was presuming a pitch of 440 but Wim mentions neither pitch nor string length.



> On Feb 19, 2018, at 11:22, Martyn Hodgson <hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu> 
> wrote:
> 
> A nylgut string of 0.44 on a lute of 60cmm string length at A415



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Broeken nylgut string

2018-02-19 Thread Martyn Hodgson

   Dear Wim,
   Since it is the stress (ie Tension p.u.cross sectional Area) on the
   string which causes it to break (at the 'Breaking Stress'), the
   critical factors for a particular string material are simply pitch and
   string length.  Despite continuing mythology, absolute thickness is not
   relevant (provided there are no significant irregularities in the
   string material) - a thicker string will simply need a greater force
   (ie Tension) to reach the breaking stress than a thinner. The stress
   will be the same on the thick string as on the thinner.
   A nylgut string of 0.44 on a lute of 60cmm string length at A415
   (giving a theoretical tension of around 3,9Kg) should below the
   breaking stress of nylgut - provided the formulation hasn't changed
   again (as Matthew points out) or there was a dud batch.
   I say 'theoretical' tension since slender strings thin significantly on
   stretching so the 'at pitch' diameter will be less than the unstressed
   diameter..
   Why don't you contact Mimmo for his view?
   regards,
   Martyn
 __

   From: Matthew Daillie <dail...@club-internet.fr>
   To: Wim Loos <wjglso...@gmail.com>
   Cc: LuteNet list <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Sent: Monday, 19 February 2018, 9:37
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Broeken nylgut string
   You didn't mention the string length of your lute so we can't judge
   whether 0.44 is the right diameter or not (it would certainly be far
   too much for a 60 cm lute and would explain the snapping strings).
   Unfortunately breakage is a common problem with the current Nylgut top
   strings, particularly the 0.40 gauges. There best stuff was the shiny
   nylgut made in 2014 (apart from the first batch which was dodgy) but as
   apparently some players complained about the fact that it was smooth
   and didn't have any surface texture (??!!) they stopped producing it
   for lutes.
   You could try La Bella or KÃÂ¼rschner nylon. Some players also like
   carbon strings but I find them too thin for top courses.
   Good quality gut is obviously very satisfactory sonically but you would
   be extremely lucky to find any for a chanterelle that lasts more than a
   couple of days of intensive playing.
   There is at least one string maker using silk (an interesting, historic
   alternative) but I have no experience of that and I don't know whether
   he makes gauges suitable for chanterelles.
   Best,
   Matthew
   > On Feb 19, 2018, at 8:27, Wim Loos <[1]wjglso...@gmail.com> wrote:
   >
   >  Dear luteplayers,
   >  Within a relative short periode, two times my g' (0.44mm nylgut) on
   a
   >  7-c Renaissance lute has broken. Sounds this familliar to you? What
   do
   >  you suggest as an alternative.
   >  Wim Loos
   >
   >  --
   >
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:wjglso...@gmail.com
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Broeken nylgut string

2018-02-19 Thread Matthew Daillie

You didn't mention the string length of your lute so we can't judge whether 
0.44 is the right diameter or not (it would certainly be far too much for a 60 
cm lute and would explain the snapping strings).

Unfortunately breakage is a common problem with the current Nylgut top strings, 
particularly the 0.40 gauges. There best stuff was the shiny nylgut made in 
2014 (apart from the first batch which was dodgy) but as apparently some 
players complained about the fact that it was smooth and didn't have any 
surface texture (??!!) they stopped producing it for lutes.

You could try La Bella or Kürschner nylon. Some players also like carbon 
strings but I find them too thin for top courses.

Good quality gut is obviously very satisfactory sonically but you would be 
extremely lucky to find any for a chanterelle that lasts more than a couple of 
days of intensive playing.

There is at least one string maker using silk (an interesting, historic 
alternative) but I have no experience of that and I don't know whether he makes 
gauges suitable for chanterelles.

Best,

Matthew

> On Feb 19, 2018, at 8:27, Wim Loos <wjglso...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>   Dear luteplayers,
>   Within a relative short periode, two times my g' (0.44mm nylgut) on a
>   7-c Renaissance lute has broken. Sounds this familliar to you? What do
>   you suggest as an alternative.
>   Wim Loos
> 
>   --
> 

To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Broeken nylgut string

2018-02-18 Thread Wim Loos

   Dear luteplayers,
   Within a relative short periode, two times my g' (0.44mm nylgut) on a
   7-c Renaissance lute has broken. Sounds this familliar to you? What do
   you suggest as an alternative.
   Wim Loos

   --


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] 'Shiny' nylgut

2018-02-09 Thread Matthew Daillie

Does anyone have any of the small diameter shiny nylgut strings that 
Aquila produced in 2014 that they would be willing to sell? I am 
particularly interested in 0.38 and 0.44 gauge strings to put on my lute 
in a'.


Please contact me off-list. Many thanks.

Best,

Matthew




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Aquila Loaded Nylgut sustain

2017-01-10 Thread Mimmo Peruffo

   ah! right
   thanks Jan. see you at Paris in April?
   Takin beer togheter
   Mimmo

   From: [1]jmpoirier2
   Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 9:31 AM
   To: [2]Mimmo Peruffo ; [3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Subject: RE : [LUTE] Re: Aquila Loaded Nylgut sustain

   Dear Mimmo,
   No problem at all about the duration of sound with your strings. I
   agree with Bruno Cognyl-Fournier : we are all very grateful -  or we
   should be -  for your brilliant a d continuous efforts to improve the
   quality of synthetic strings and the discussion about Mersenne and all
   that is only a way to satisfy our scholarly egos ð!  But please keep up
   the good work and thank you again for everything you do to help us
   pluckers to improve our performances of early music!

   Best wishes da Francia,

   Jean-Marie


    Message d'origine 
   De : Mimmo Peruffo <mperu...@aquilacorde.com>
   Date : 09/01/2017 6:33 PM (GMT+01:00)
   Ã : lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Objet : [LUTE] Re: Aquila Loaded Nylgut sustain
  maybe it is better to give you guys a few more informations:
  yes, I am out of stock  due to some problems: the first one is that
   the
  plastic blend nd copper powder changes some behaviours. This is
   common
  when one exstrude plastics.  I worked hard  to understand  why in
   these
  15 days and then when I was able to realize why, guess that? The
  extruder broke the gear pump!  heck. Just yesterday (yes, Sunday)  I
  was in condition to find another way  that is working pretty good
  but... my co-worker at the extruder  right now  has flu!  another
  stopah ah. Do not worry: tomorrow I will do this job alone.
   their
  lifetime?  I think that they last forever. I am sorry, the sound do
   not
  last 20 seconds
  From: [1]Bruno Cognyl-Fournier
  Sent: Monday, January 09, 2017 6:02 PM
  To: [2]Dan Winheld
  Cc: [3]Anthony Hind ; [4]Matthew Daillie ; [5]Mimmo Peruffo ; [6]Rob
  MacKillop ; [7]Lute List
  Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Aquila Loaded Nylgut sustain
  and my guess is that these strings may last forever..
  Bruno
  2017-01-09 11:56 GMT-05:00 Dan Winheld <[8]dwinh...@lmi.net>:
Fascinating thread! I am delighted that after over 40 years in the
lute "business" (even mostly amateur) that good bass strings may
   be
emerging as an obtainable, affordable,  predictable, and PRACTICAL
reality. Mimmo Peruffo is to be congratulated for all his work
   over
all these years.
Now, can anyone tell me if the new basses are now  available in
   the
U.S?
Thank you all-
To get on or off this list see list information at
[9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  --
   References
  1. mailto:fournier...@gmail.com
  2. mailto:dwinh...@lmi.net
  3. mailto:agno3ph...@cs.dartmouth.edu
  4. mailto:dail...@club-internet.fr
  5. mailto:mperu...@aquilacorde.com
  6. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com
  7. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
  8. mailto:dwinh...@lmi.net
  9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:jmpoiri...@wanadoo.fr
   2. mailto:mperu...@aquilacorde.com
   3. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu

[LUTE] Re: Aquila Loaded Nylgut sustain

2017-01-10 Thread jmpoirier2

   Dear Mimmo,

   No problem at all about the duration of sound with your strings. I
   agree with Bruno Cognyl-Fournier : we are all very grateful -  or we
   should be -  for your brilliant a d continuous efforts to improve the
   quality of synthetic strings and the discussion about Mersenne and all
   that is only a way to satisfy our scholarly egos ð!  But please keep up
   the good work and thank you again for everything you do to help us
   pluckers to improve our performances of early music!

   Best wishes da Francia,

   Jean-Marie

    Message d'origine 
   De : Mimmo Peruffo <mperu...@aquilacorde.com>
   Date : 09/01/2017 6:33 PM (GMT+01:00)
   Ã : lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Objet : [LUTE] Re: Aquila Loaded Nylgut sustain
  maybe it is better to give you guys a few more informations:
  yes, I am out of stock  due to some problems: the first one is that
   the
  plastic blend nd copper powder changes some behaviours. This is
   common
  when one exstrude plastics.  I worked hard  to understand  why in
   these
  15 days and then when I was able to realize why, guess that? The
  extruder broke the gear pump!  heck. Just yesterday (yes, Sunday)  I
  was in condition to find another way  that is working pretty good
  but... my co-worker at the extruder  right now  has flu!  another
  stopah ah. Do not worry: tomorrow I will do this job alone.
   their
  lifetime?  I think that they last forever. I am sorry, the sound do
   not
  last 20 seconds
  From: [1]Bruno Cognyl-Fournier
  Sent: Monday, January 09, 2017 6:02 PM
  To: [2]Dan Winheld
  Cc: [3]Anthony Hind ; [4]Matthew Daillie ; [5]Mimmo Peruffo ; [6]Rob
  MacKillop ; [7]Lute List
  Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Aquila Loaded Nylgut sustain
  and my guess is that these strings may last forever..
  Bruno
  2017-01-09 11:56 GMT-05:00 Dan Winheld <[8]dwinh...@lmi.net>:
Fascinating thread! I am delighted that after over 40 years in the
lute "business" (even mostly amateur) that good bass strings may
   be
emerging as an obtainable, affordable,  predictable, and PRACTICAL
reality. Mimmo Peruffo is to be congratulated for all his work
   over
all these years.
Now, can anyone tell me if the new basses are now  available in
   the
U.S?
Thank you all-
To get on or off this list see list information at
[9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  --
   References
  1. mailto:fournier...@gmail.com
  2. mailto:dwinh...@lmi.net
  3. mailto:agno3ph...@cs.dartmouth.edu
  4. mailto:dail...@club-internet.fr
  5. mailto:mperu...@aquilacorde.com
  6. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com
  7. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
  8. mailto:dwinh...@lmi.net
  9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Aquila Loaded Nylgut sustain

2017-01-09 Thread John Mardinly

Huh? Folks, sound and vibration are one and the same. If the string can
be seen to be vibrating and you can't hear it, it is either a problem
with your hearing (which to be sure comes naturally with our advancing
age), or there is sufficient ambient noise in the room or other notes
being played that the sound is overwhelmed. You can be sure, that if
the string is vibrating, there IS sound, whether your ears/brain sense
it or not. The attenuation of the vibration follows a mathematical
formula (exponential decay) that is related to internal damping and
parasitic loss (which is energy transferred from the string to the body
of the instrument). Attempting to ascribe a single time duration number
to the sustain is an absurdity that violates the laws of physics. You
can use a single number to approach some convenient threshold, say for
example 75% attenuation (time to 75% reduction in volume), but 100%
attenuation is something you would never be able to determine with any
useful accuracy. Rob's video shows that it seems relatively easy to
âqualitatively' assess the difference in sustain, but to put numbers on
it, you would need to decide on some terminating threshold, and realize
that the string is still vibrating and there is still sound beyond that
terminating threshold.

A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
Retired Principal Materials Nanoanalysis Engineer
EMail: [1]john.mardi...@asu.edu
Cell: [2]408-921-3253 (does not work in TEM labs)
But don't call the labâ¦.I won't be there!

On Jan 9, 2017, at 3:42 AM, Jean-Marie Poirier
<[3]jmpoiri...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:

Not sure about that Mimmo... Mersenne is a scientist, therefore a
precise observer and his observations are worth considering seriously.
When he describes the duration of the sound of the bass stings of a
lute, he takes care to precise ""...le son des grosses chordes de Luth
est apperceu de l'oreille durant la sixiesme partie, ou le tiers d'une
minute...", the sound is preceived by the ear for 10 to 20 seconds. And
a few lines further he says : "...Il n'y a nul doute que la chorde se
meut encore long-temps aprÃ¨s que l'oreille en perd le son..." = there
is no doubt that the strings still moves a long time after the ear has
lost its sound. So he is not confusing vibration and sound, not at all
!
Now, as Matthew remarked, we don't know about the conditions in which
the test was done. If the lute is laid on a table, it might certainly
influence the parameters of the experience...
Best,
Jean-Marie
--

I am lucky: I have seen /installed strings on some hundreds od
lutes in
these last years. Maybe I can be in mistake, but I have never seen
a lute,
whose basses are roped strings or even loaded roped strings, whose
sustain
is so long. Even with modern Pyramid nylon wound strings (they have
in
absolute the higher density) .
I would like to know if here there is somebody that can have a
positive
experience in matter. At present I would stick that Mersenne meant
how
many time last the vibration, not the sound.
Mimmo
-Messaggio originale-
From: Matthew Daillie
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2017 10:52 AM
To: Mimmo Peruffo
Cc: Rob MacKillop ; Lute List
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Aquila Loaded Nylgut sustain
One thing nobody seems to have mentioned is the vast differences in
sustain
from one instrument to another. Maybe Mersenne's comments go to show
just
how good some lutes were at the time. If one was to rest a lute on
the edge
of a wooden table as they were wont to do at the time, then maybe
those 20
seconds are not so unrealistic.
Best,
Matthew=
To get on or off this list see list information at
[4]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmo
uth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DQIFaQ=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGq
yv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-L
NEQ=V1-Mescs6gIDjdVHOl
SP8VEmKgpA4u4e_0PqiwTxEdo=

References

1. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
2. tel:408-921-3253
3. mailto:jmpoiri...@wanadoo.fr
4.
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DQIFaQ=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ=V1-Mescs6gIDjdVHOlSP8VEmKgpA4u4e_0PqiwTxEdo=

1 2 >

1 - 100 of 187 matches

Mail list logo