Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Thu, 9 May 2002, civileme wrote: Brian Parish wrote: OK - apologies for casting aspersions in my dark colleague's direction. My blood temperature tends to rise too fast for my brain to cope with sometimes. But what can I say - I'm Australian - we live to piss people off! ;-) I'll try to play nice from here on - but don't count on it! :-^ Brian I'm counting on the opposite--adds a bit of spice to the list. Civileme I'll hoist a Fosters to that one! no harm no foul Brian. -- daRcmaTTeR -- Registered Linux User 182496 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Sat, 11 May 2002 03:52:15 +0100, Derek Byram [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Saturday 11 May 2002 03:28, you wrote: On Friday 10 May 2002 17:05, Derek Byram opened a general hailing frequency and transmitted to all open stations: i won't argue the dumb part, but i will point out that in his book billyg says that the next big advancement in computers will come when we find a fast easy way to factor prime numbers. ...left as an exercise for the reader. seems to me this has become a flamethrower war :) ? well mostly, but the flames in the post are from linux towards bill gates, so... how many here on this list want to defend bill? don't all speak up at once! ;) i can't defend billy boy, his software went downhill after 3.11 *G* I think the last decent thing they made was Xenix, which was made in collaboration with Santa Cruz Operation (SCO). MS later cut Xenix away to focus on Windows, and it was eventually rebranded to SCO UNIX. -- Sridhar Dhanapalan Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with your Microsoft product. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Friday 10 May 2002 12:20 am, you wrote: T'was indeed a humorous jab, but then my sense of humor may be a little different ;-) Thought so! ;-) And I'm sure you are indeed a nice guy - but then - you have a gun, so I'd just better say that eh? :-))) ;-) (just for the record though - I've never had to use a gun to dispute!) Don't shoot anyone I wouldn't! Bet thats a short list! lol cheers Brian Hehehehehe, did I mention that my .signature file used to read: Have gun, will travel ??? snicker -- /\ DarkLord \/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Friday 10 May 2002 17:05, Derek Byram opened a general hailing frequency and transmitted to all open stations: i won't argue the dumb part, but i will point out that in his book billyg says that the next big advancement in computers will come when we find a fast easy way to factor prime numbers. ...left as an exercise for the reader. seems to me this has become a flamethrower war :) ? well mostly, but the flames in the post are from linux towards bill gates, so... how many here on this list want to defend bill? don't all speak up at once! ;) -- you can have peace or freedom, but never count on both at once -heinlein shane Profile at: http://dmoz.org/profiles/shen.html Proud to be a DMOZ editor since 10-98 Mandrake Users Club Member http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/club/ Registered linux user #101606 http://counter.li.org/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Saturday 11 May 2002 03:28, you wrote: On Friday 10 May 2002 17:05, Derek Byram opened a general hailing frequency and transmitted to all open stations: i won't argue the dumb part, but i will point out that in his book billyg says that the next big advancement in computers will come when we find a fast easy way to factor prime numbers. ...left as an exercise for the reader. seems to me this has become a flamethrower war :) ? well mostly, but the flames in the post are from linux towards bill gates, so... how many here on this list want to defend bill? don't all speak up at once! ;) i can't defend billy boy, his software went downhill after 3.11 *G* -- derek Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Thu, 2002-05-09 at 01:09, shane wrote: On Wednesday 08 May 2002 00:42, Miark opened a general hailing frequency and transmitted to all open stations: Hey, (in-the-)Dark, if you are going to rely on the NRA for unbiased info on guns and the law in Australia, why not go all the way and go read the Microsoft site for unbiased data on Windows. You might learn some real interesting stuff! Were you born this charming, or do you take pills? I live here. I don't own a gun. Don't need to. Don't want to. and what you are citing there has no resonance with anything I've seen, heard, or read. Well I'm so glad your bias-free comments, so wonderfully grounded in science's purest method--the resonance method--have saved us dupes from the lies and deception of the NRA. yes, the in the dark comment was poor, but please don't argue with the intelligent half of the message. pro gun talk from the NRA is about like anti-linux from MS or race relations from neo-nazis. i will not voice my gun opinion here more than i have, but both darks opinion (not his NRA stats) as well as brians mean more to me in reflecting the truth than press releases from groups whos aim is to promote/abolish guns. .and try to play nice. -- If someone tells you they possess the truth, listen carefully. If they tell you they possess the *only* truth, run for your life. shane OK - apologies for casting aspersions in my dark colleague's direction. My blood temperature tends to rise too fast for my brain to cope with sometimes. But what can I say - I'm Australian - we live to piss people off! ;-) I'll try to play nice from here on - but don't count on it! :-^ Brian Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
Brian Parish wrote: OK - apologies for casting aspersions in my dark colleague's direction. My blood temperature tends to rise too fast for my brain to cope with sometimes. But what can I say - I'm Australian - we live to piss people off! ;-) I'll try to play nice from here on - but don't count on it! :-^ Brian I'm counting on the opposite--adds a bit of spice to the list. Civileme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Thu, 2002-05-09 at 02:13, darklord wrote: On Wednesday 08 May 2002 02:25 am, you wrote: Hey, (in-the-)Dark, if you are going to rely on the NRA for unbiased info on guns and the law in Australia, why not go all the way and go read the Microsoft site for unbiased data on Windows. You might learn some real interesting stuff! I'll take that as a humorous jab, in the best tradition of debate...am I a nice guy, or what? ;-) T'was indeed a humorous jab, but then my sense of humor may be a little different ;-) And I'm sure you are indeed a nice guy - but then - you have a gun, so I'd just better say that eh? :-))) Don't shoot anyone I wouldn't! cheers Brian Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
daRcmaTTeR said onto me: -- snip | |Brian, | |Thats a terrible thing to say. even for Billy-bob. sure the guy is evil |but geeZ. That's rather harsh. Maybe the poor bugger simply doesn't know |any different. poor dumb bugger. | Come on now..Don't get me wrong, I support that guy in NO way. But if there are two things in this world he is not they are: _poor_ or _dumb_. That mother fr knows better. He chooses to run his company the way it is via conscience choices. Let him hang like the criminal he is. Don't say things that could build empathy/sympathy for him. my 0.02 Dave |-- |daRcmaTTeR |-- |Registered Linux User 182496 | -- -- °°° David L. Steiner Registered Linux User #262493 Mandrake 8.2 Enlightenment 0.16.5 Sylpheed 0.7.4claws Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage: www.davidlsteiner.com °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
Marc wrote: A interisting point to ponder is that from what I have heard the crime rate in Kenasaw Georga before passing that local ordance was extremely high compared to the rest of the state of georgia but after that law was in place for 3 months the crime rate had droped to way below average for the state. Has getting rid of most of the firearms in a lot of the UK had that kind of positive effect? Gun restriction laws in canada mean we have fewer crimes per capita than the US Our murder rates are far lower by city/per capita too. Simple fact: Guns kill ppl. Access to them does same. End of story here in Canada. *dons the flame retardant suits prepares for the inevitable war* -- Femme Good Decisions You boss Made: We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that character from Peanuts. - Source: Dilbert Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Tue, 2002-05-07 at 03:16, FemmeFatale wrote: Gun restriction laws in canada mean we have fewer crimes per capita than the US Our murder rates are far lower by city/per capita too. Simple fact: Guns kill ppl. Access to them does same. End of story here in Canada. *dons the flame retardant suits prepares for the inevitable war* -- Femme No suits needed, I'm just curious. Where did you get your figures from? I'm interested in your sources. Email me off list. :) Thanks! LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.8-26mdk Mandrake Linux 8.1 Enlightenment 0.16.5Evolution 1.02 Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
Gun restriction laws in canada mean we have fewer crimes per capita than the US Our murder rates are far lower by city/per capita too. That's not true. The murder rate in Canada was tiny compared to the States' _before_ the restrictive laws came into effect. Canada has less violent crime because Canadians are a less violent people. (I know, I know, you're all shocked :-) Anti-gun laws only seem to work in Canada because there isn't a violent crime problem to begin with. And if you try to apply similar laws in a more violent place such as the States, the crime would run rampant. Simple fact: Guns kill ppl. Access to them does same. End of story here in Canada. Rediculous. Criminals kill people, and if you take away their guns, they will find dozens of other ways to do it (if not other illegal guns). You give law-abiding citizens the right to arm themselves, and crime drops for two reasons. First because criminals change their mind about going against somebody that might shoot them, and second because if they do try to murder/rape/rob somebody, they'll be stopped! The lower crime rate in Kennesaw, GA is a perfect example of the first point, and as for the second, there are an estimated 2 million crimes that are prevented every year in the States because people have the freedom to protect themselves with a firearm. Miark (an 18-year resident of Canada, and 12-year resident of the States.) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Mon, 6 May 2002 22:32:21 -0400, darklord [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 06 May 2002 06:53 pm, you wrote: A interisting point to ponder is that from what I have heard the crime rate in Kenasaw Georga before passing that local ordance was extremely high compared to the rest of the state of georgia but after that law was in place for 3 months the crime rate had droped to way below average for the state. Has getting rid of most of the firearms in a lot of the UK had that kind of positive effect? You're on the right track here - taking guns away does NOT lower crime rates. Just the opposite, in fact. Britain and Australia (FWIH) are in the same boat... ;-( How do you know that? Have you lived in Australia or Britain? Have you actually looked at the official statistics or simply some biased interpretation by the National Redneck Association [sorry, couldn't resist ;)]? The Australian Bureau of Statistics (a government body, but their methodology is well-documented and sound) has shown time and time again that reducing the number of weapons _reduces_ crime. Some years back (IIRC, it was 1996) we had a big (by Australian standards) gun massacre in the state of Tasmania. After that, the government initiated a gun buyback and confiscation scheme, and crime rates dropped. The City of Sydney introduced restrictions on knives a few years ago; that also reduced the crime rate. But as British PM Benjamin Disraeli once said, There are lies, damn lies and statistics. By this he meant that statistics can be easily twisted to argue whatever you want. Microsoft does this all the time, as does MozillaQuest. One famous example of this concerned the pesticides Aldrin and Dieldrin (A/D). American and British scientists both had the same information on hand. Nevertheless, the American scientists ruled them to be carcinogenic whilst the British scientists declared them to be safe. -- Sridhar Dhanapalan If Bill Gates had a dime for every time a Windows box crashed... ...Oh, wait a minute, he already does. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Tue, 2002-05-07 at 04:43, Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote: How do you know that? Have you lived in Australia or Britain? Have you actually looked at the official statistics or simply some biased interpretation by the National Redneck Association [sorry, couldn't resist ;)]? The Australian Bureau of Statistics (a government body, but their methodology is well-documented and sound) has shown time and time again that reducing the number of weapons _reduces_ crime. Some years back (IIRC, it was 1996) we had a big (by Australian standards) gun massacre in the state of Tasmania. After that, the government initiated a gun buyback and confiscation scheme, and crime rates dropped. The City of Sydney introduced restrictions on knives a few years ago; that also reduced the crime rate. Well, I've been looking carefully at everything, and my personal end consensus is that I happen to side with Eric Raymond on these issues. And that's way before I knew his position. LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.8-26mdk Mandrake Linux 8.1 Enlightenment 0.16.5Evolution 1.02 Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
EhI forgot to include this in the last post. http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/guns/gun-ethics.html LX On Tue, 2002-05-07 at 04:43, Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote: How do you know that? Have you lived in Australia or Britain? Have you actually looked at the official statistics or simply some biased interpretation by the National Redneck Association [sorry, couldn't resist ;)]? The Australian Bureau of Statistics (a government body, but their methodology is well-documented and sound) has shown time and time again that reducing the number of weapons _reduces_ crime. Some years back (IIRC, it was 1996) we had a big (by Australian standards) gun massacre in the state of Tasmania. After that, the government initiated a gun buyback and confiscation scheme, and crime rates dropped. The City of Sydney introduced restrictions on knives a few years ago; that also reduced the crime rate. But as British PM Benjamin Disraeli once said, There are lies, damn lies and statistics. By this he meant that statistics can be easily twisted to argue whatever you want. Microsoft does this all the time, as does MozillaQuest. One famous example of this concerned the pesticides Aldrin and Dieldrin (A/D). American and British scientists both had the same information on hand. Nevertheless, the American scientists ruled them to be carcinogenic whilst the British scientists declared them to be safe. -- Sridhar Dhanapalan If Bill Gates had a dime for every time a Windows box crashed... ...Oh, wait a minute, he already does. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -- °°° Kernel 2.4.8-26mdk Mandrake Linux 8.1 Enlightenment 0.16.5Evolution 1.02 Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove?
On 7 May 2002, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: On Tue, 2002-05-07 at 03:16, FemmeFatale wrote: Gun restriction laws in canada mean we have fewer crimes per capita than the US Our murder rates are far lower by city/per capita too. Simple fact: Guns kill ppl. Access to them does same. End of story here in Canada. *dons the flame retardant suits prepares for the inevitable war* -- Femme no...no...no... Femme! it's not the gun that kills the people. come on! you know better then that. The poor dumb gun can't stand up and puke bullets at people unless some butthole first HOLDS the gun in his/her hand and PULLS the trigger! THATS what kills people. It's the butthole holding the gun. Geez! -- daRcmaTTeR -- Registered Linux User 182496 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
Title: RE: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove? -Original Message-From: Myers, Dennis R NWO [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 2:46 PMTo: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'Subject: RE: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Miark Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 1:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove? What ms considers to be illegal is the following: I buy a machine with preinstalled windows I uninstall windows and install a real os I sell/give the version of windows that came with the machine to someone else What ms wants is that when I sell or give away the machine, I must also hand the original version of windows to whoever gets the machine also. That makes more sense, but not much more. Winblows, even on pre-installed computers, costs something, and that cost is passed on to the final consumer. So despite its cost being buried in a sticker price, you pay for Winsux on a pre-installed computer. In my way of thinking, if I pay for it, I have the right to sell it-- even separately, if I choose. Miark I too agree. If I buy a car and drive it till it is rust, I can remove engine transmission, seats and what ever else is salvageable and sell them individually. They were part of an integral package to begin with, but I still can sell off the pieces. Heck, I could sell of the pieces two days after I bought it brand new, and put some other engine in it. What makes Windows so special? M$ is as arrogant as any company ever in existance. My $.02 Dennis M. The difference is: In the case of software, you're not "buying" the software. You purchase a license to "use" the software on (in this case) a single desktop. If you read the EULA you will see that you do not have the right to transfer that license to anyone else. I don't support M$, but before these tirades get going, people should read the license agreement, and understand it. If you don't like/agree with the EULA, don't agree to it, and don't use the software. You DO have the option to return the OS to M$ "unused". You'll have to fight for it, but refunds are issued in cases where the OS was removed from new computers "unused". That means, you can't even boot the computer new out of the box. If you do, you've used the software, and cannot return it. But it clear: You are not buying the software. That would be far more expensive (well into the millions). You're only buying a license to "use" the software. Ric
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove?
On Tue, 7 May 2002, David wrote: daRcmaTTeR said onto me: -- snip | |Brian, | |Thats a terrible thing to say. even for Billy-bob. sure the guy is evil |but geeZ. That's rather harsh. Maybe the poor bugger simply doesn't know |any different. poor dumb bugger. | Come on now..Don't get me wrong, I support that guy in NO way. But if there are two things in this world he is not they are: _poor_ or _dumb_. That mother fr knows better. He chooses to run his company the way it is via conscience choices. Let him hang like the criminal he is. Don't say things that could build empathy/sympathy for him. my 0.02 Dave Hi hear what your'e saying Dave, but the kind of dumbness I'm refering to, (serious-blind-stupidity-and-disregard-for-ethics) has little to do with intellect and everything to do with the person in question. He's been a thief mostof his adult life and in a way doesn't know anything else. ergo, he is quite ignorant, un-discerning, and poor. (poor as in impoverished. totally lacking any ethical wealth what-so-ever). make sense? still...well, I'm sure you get the point. -- daRcmaTTeR -- Registered Linux User 182496 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
daRcmaTTeR said onto me: -- |On Tue, 7 May 2002, David wrote: | | | | daRcmaTTeR said onto me: | -- | snip | | | |Brian, | | | |Thats a terrible thing to say. even for Billy-bob. sure the guy is evil | |but geeZ. That's rather harsh. Maybe the poor bugger simply doesn't know | |any different. poor dumb bugger. | | | | Come on now..Don't get me wrong, I support that guy in NO way. But if there are | two things in this world he is not they are: _poor_ or _dumb_. | | That mother fr knows better. He chooses to run his company the way it is via | conscience choices. Let him hang like the criminal he is. Don't say things that | could build empathy/sympathy for him. | | my 0.02 | Dave | |Hi hear what your'e saying Dave, but the kind of dumbness I'm refering to, |(serious-blind-stupidity-and-disregard-for-ethics) has little to do with |intellect and everything to do with the person in question. He's been a |thief mostof his adult life and in a way doesn't know anything else. ergo, |he is quite ignorant, un-discerning, and poor. (poor as in impoverished. |totally lacking any ethical wealth what-so-ever). | |make sense? still...well, I'm sure you get the point. | |-- |daRcmaTTeR |-- |Registered Linux User 182496 | | | Yeah, I know what was meant. I was just possibly the only soul on this list that hadn't posted to this thread and felt left out. ;) -- -- °°° David L. Steiner Registered Linux User #262493 Mandrake 8.2 Enlightenment 0.16.5 Sylpheed 0.7.4claws Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage: www.davidlsteiner.com °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Tuesday 07 May 2002 00:26, David opened a general hailing frequency and transmitted to all open stations: Come on now..Don't get me wrong, I support that guy in NO way. But if there are two things in this world he is not they are: _poor_ or _dumb_. i won't argue the dumb part, but i will point out that in his book billyg says that the next big advancement in computers will come when we find a fast easy way to factor prime numbers. ...left as an exercise for the reader. -- 1 if by land, 2 if by sea, 3 if by interdimentional teleportation. shane Profile at: http://dmoz.org/profiles/shen.html Proud to be a DMOZ editor since 10-98 Mandrake Users Club Member http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/club/ Registered linux user #101606 http://counter.li.org/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove?
Read the book More Guns, Less Crime There was a LOT of research put into that book and it shows, quite well, that what you just claimed is not true. I submit to you the case of Switzerland. Every male in Switzerland is REQUIRED to own a gun - yet they have incredibely low crime there too. There are PLENTY of other things to say about this, but since this *IS* A Linux board I'll simply say read the book. Brian Gun restriction laws in canada mean we have fewer crimes per capita than the US Our murder rates are far lower by city/per capita too. Simple fact: Guns kill ppl. Access to them does same. End of story here in Canada. *dons the flame retardant suits prepares for the inevitable war* Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
Other states have better gun laws than this state (read: less restrictive on law abiding tax paying citizens), such as Texas, Tennessee, and a few others I can't remember. Here in Georgia, in the city I live in Kennesaw, GA there is a city ordinance that you cannot live inside the city without owning a Firearm. There is not that many home break-ins here, most of the crime we have is traffic violations in the city of Kennesaw, there are the occasional break-ins but those are of stores, not homes. Anyway I think all should be allowed to own weapons, especially for defense of your home. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
How about we save the pro-gun shit for the IamaHickWhoLikesToKill mail list. This list is about linux - or it was. On Mon, 2002-05-06 at 22:18, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Other states have better gun laws than this state (read: less restrictive on law abiding tax paying citizens), such as Texas, Tennessee, and a few others I can't remember. Here in Georgia, in the city I live in Kennesaw, GA there is a city ordinance that you cannot live inside the city without owning a Firearm. There is not that many home break-ins here, most of the crime we have is traffic violations in the city of Kennesaw, there are the occasional break-ins but those are of stores, not homes. Anyway I think all should be allowed to own weapons, especially for defense of your home. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Mon, 6 May 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Other states have better gun laws than this state (read: less restrictive on law abiding tax paying citizens), such as Texas, Tennessee, and a few others I can't remember. Here in Georgia, in the city I live in Kennesaw, GA there is a city ordinance that you cannot live inside the city without owning a Firearm. There is not that many home break-ins here, most of the crime we have is traffic violations in the city of Kennesaw, there are the occasional break-ins but those are of stores, not homes. Anyway I think all should be allowed to own weapons, especially for defense of your home. now THAT is a city ordinance I can live with! -- daRcmaTTeR -- Registered Linux User 182496 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
Sounds like someone has a bad case of the Mondays... -Source: Office Space -Original Message- From: Brian Parish [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 8:47 AM To: newbie Subject: RE: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ? How about we save the pro-gun shit for the IamaHickWhoLikesToKill mail list. This list is about linux - or it was. On Mon, 2002-05-06 at 22:18, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Other states have better gun laws than this state (read: less restrictive on law abiding tax paying citizens), such as Texas, Tennessee, and a few others I can't remember. Here in Georgia, in the city I live in Kennesaw, GA there is a city ordinance that you cannot live inside the city without owning a Firearm. There is not that many home break-ins here, most of the crime we have is traffic violations in the city of Kennesaw, there are the occasional break-ins but those are of stores, not homes. Anyway I think all should be allowed to own weapons, especially for defense of your home. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Monday 06 May 2002 09:07 am, you wrote: On 6 May 2002, Brian Parish wrote: How about we save the pro-gun shit for the IamaHickWhoLikesToKill mail list. This list is about linux - or it was. wow! someone isn't very happy this morning .hope your day gets better as it goes along Brian. Really. I own a gun... I've never killed anyone with it yet... ;-) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Mon, 2002-05-06 at 23:48, darklord wrote: Really. I own a gun... I've never killed anyone with it yet... ;-) Look, I know that the attitude to guns is a little different in the USA and I make no comment as to whether that's right, wrong, or whatever. I just can't understand why it's being discussed on this list. This thread seems to go on forever and it's left the software track a long time ago. I guess being forced to own a weapon to live in a certain town just made me so incredulous that...well I'm just blown away that any society could think that was normal or OK. But who knows - I'm probably the crazy one. My Monday was fine BTW - and it's Tuesday already here, so no more from me for a few hours. So to all you armed and dangerous linux heads out there, be REAL careful! OK? Brian Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Monday 06 May 2002 08:35, Brian Parish opened a general hailing frequency and transmitted to all open stations: I guess being forced to own a weapon to live in a certain town just made me so incredulous that...well I'm just blown away that any society could think that was normal or OK. But who knows - I'm probably the crazy one. i feel the same way about windows, why am i forced to own it? still, in my old home state 99.9% of all sex acts were illegal. between consenting adults mind you. if the price to a private bedroom (or wherever) and an MS free machine is to own a gun i'll buy 2. ;) -- We are Linux. Resistance is measured in Ohms. shane Profile at: http://dmoz.org/profiles/shen.html Proud to be a DMOZ editor since 10-98 Mandrake Users Club Member http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/club/ Registered linux user #101606 http://counter.li.org/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Sun, 2002-05-05 at 12:54, Kaj Haulrich wrote: Oh, come on Richard ! - On my screen I see no foam at all. Lyvim was merely answering a naive question concerning the fact that I'm now a criminal, because I eradicated windows from my laptop. Furthermore, it seems that I'm a communist, because I use free software. I wonder if that holds for my children as well ? If THAT isn't crap, I don't know what crap is. Lyvim was kind enough to inform me that not all americans cave in to the evil empire. To quote my question : What happened to the land of the free ? We europeans (well, most of us) have great admiration for the United States of America. Mostly because you kicked the oppressors out, wrote a brand new Constitution - and took it seriously ! What you describe here makes me doubt : is USA becoming Europized ? Reverting to feudalism, pseudo-democracy, corruption, fraud and mob-rule ? If so, where can we find hope ? I still don't know. But I know that at least some americans stand up : judge Pennfield Jackson is still in office (as far as I know). Nader is still at large and Linus Skywalker, eh Thorvalds isn't knighted by emperor Bill yet. Lyvim can criticize his country's legislative system and Todd can even criticize its founding fathers. You can like their opinions or dislike them. But they have freedom of speech - and use it. Without risking incarceration. That's why I envy americans. And linux is about freedom. I don't think that's irrelevant here on this list. May the Force be with us ! Kaj Haulrich Denmark Kaj, I had an idea in the beginning that adopting a broad view of the M$ and legislative situation for your question would not be wasted. I can see now that the investment could not have been put in a better direction. :) Thanks, LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.8-26mdk Mandrake Linux 8.1 Enlightenment 0.16.5Evolution 1.02 Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
Tommy Eaton wrote: Sounds like someone has a bad case of the Mondays... -Source: Office Space -Original Message- From: Brian Parish [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 8:47 AM To: newbie Subject: RE: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ? How about we save the pro-gun shit for the IamaHickWhoLikesToKill mail list. This list is about linux - or it was. Ummm, actually you don't have to hunt that far for a maillist for this purpose. Fire up Google and find Geeks with Guns The leader is Eric S. Raymond, last I looked. Civileme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Tue, 2002-05-07 at 01:49, shane wrote: On Monday 06 May 2002 08:35, Brian Parish opened a general hailing frequency and transmitted to all open stations: I guess being forced to own a weapon to live in a certain town just made me so incredulous that...well I'm just blown away that any society could think that was normal or OK. But who knows - I'm probably the crazy one. i feel the same way about windows, why am i forced to own it? still, in my old home state 99.9% of all sex acts were illegal. between consenting adults mind you. if the price to a private bedroom (or wherever) and an MS free machine is to own a gun i'll buy 2. ;) -- We are Linux. Resistance is measured in Ohms. shane Shane, As long as you reserve one of them for use on Bill Gates, who could argue? ;-) I must say I don't follow the logic of guns buying freedom of sexual expression - not the way I do it my bedroom anyway. :-) Brian Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
5/6/02 5:29:49 PM, Brian Parish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 2002-05-07 at 01:49, shane wrote: On Monday 06 May 2002 08:35, Brian Parish opened a general hailing frequency and transmitted to all open stations: I guess being forced to own a weapon to live in a certain town just made me so incredulous that...well I'm just blown away that any society could think that was normal or OK. But who knows - I'm probably the crazy one. A interisting point to ponder is that from what I have heard the crime rate in Kenasaw Georga before passing that local ordance was extremely high compared to the rest of the state of georgia but after that law was in place for 3 months the crime rate had droped to way below average for the state. Has getting rid of most of the firearms in a lot of the UK had that kind of positive effect? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
Brian Parish wrote: How about we save the pro-gun shit for the IamaHickWhoLikesToKill mail list. This list is about linux - or it was. So agree Brian. :) I'm all for freedom of speech but the politicizing on this issue can go on forever. Quit now while you're all behind. :) -- Femme Good Decisions You boss Made: We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that character from Peanuts. - Source: Dilbert Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove?
On 7 May 2002, Brian Parish wrote: On Tue, 2002-05-07 at 01:49, shane wrote: On Monday 06 May 2002 08:35, Brian Parish opened a general hailing frequency and transmitted to all open stations: I guess being forced to own a weapon to live in a certain town just made me so incredulous that...well I'm just blown away that any society could think that was normal or OK. But who knows - I'm probably the crazy one. i feel the same way about windows, why am i forced to own it? still, in my old home state 99.9% of all sex acts were illegal. between consenting adults mind you. if the price to a private bedroom (or wherever) and an MS free machine is to own a gun i'll buy 2. ;) -- We are Linux. Resistance is measured in Ohms. shane Shane, As long as you reserve one of them for use on Bill Gates, who could argue? ;-) I must say I don't follow the logic of guns buying freedom of sexual expression - not the way I do it my bedroom anyway. :-) Brian Brian, Thats a terrible thing to say. even for Billy-bob. sure the guy is evil but geeZ. That's rather harsh. Maybe the poor bugger simply doesn't know any different. poor dumb bugger. -- daRcmaTTeR -- Registered Linux User 182496 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Monday 06 May 2002 17:35, daRcmaTTeR opened a general hailing frequency and transmitted to all open stations: As long as you reserve one of them for use on Bill Gates, who could argue? ;-) I must say I don't follow the logic of guns buying freedom of sexual expression - not the way I do it my bedroom anyway. :-) Brian, Thats a terrible thing to say. even for Billy-bob. sure the guy is evil but geeZ. That's rather harsh. Maybe the poor bugger simply doesn't know any different. poor dumb bugger. now now, billyg does come from a family of lawyers -- I struggle to be breif but manage to be obscure.- Horace shane Profile at: http://dmoz.org/profiles/shen.html Proud to be a DMOZ editor since 10-98 Mandrake Users Club Member http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/club/ Registered linux user #101606 http://counter.li.org/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Monday 06 May 2002 05:19 pm, you wrote: Ummm, actually you don't have to hunt that far for a maillist for this purpose. Fire up Google and find Geeks with Guns The leader is Eric S. Raymond, last I looked. Civileme Haha - thats funny! I had the privelage of meeting Mr. Raymond on the Linux Lunacy tour... In fact, we went para-sailing (about 400-500 feet up) together with his wife. My wife, who has no head for heights, stayed on the beach - checking my life insurance policy... grin -- /\ DarkLord \/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Monday 06 May 2002 06:53 pm, you wrote: A interisting point to ponder is that from what I have heard the crime rate in Kenasaw Georga before passing that local ordance was extremely high compared to the rest of the state of georgia but after that law was in place for 3 months the crime rate had droped to way below average for the state. Has getting rid of most of the firearms in a lot of the UK had that kind of positive effect? You're on the right track here - taking guns away does NOT lower crime rates. Just the opposite, in fact. Britain and Australia (FWIH) are in the same boat... ;-( I know, I know this is way OT, and I apologise... -- /\ DarkLord \/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Saturday 04 May 2002 12:38 pm, RichardA wrote: What a load of crap. I don't subscribe to this list to see pro gun zealots foaming at the mouth about murdering petty criminals. I dare say some of my political views would upset you. You'll notice I don't subject you to them. RichardA Oh, come on Richard ! - On my screen I see no foam at all. Lyvim was merely answering a naive question concerning the fact that I'm now a criminal, because I eradicated windows from my laptop. Furthermore, it seems that I'm a communist, because I use free software. I wonder if that holds for my children as well ? If THAT isn't crap, I don't know what crap is. Lyvim was kind enough to inform me that not all americans cave in to the evil empire. To quote my question : What happened to the land of the free ? We europeans (well, most of us) have great admiration for the United States of America. Mostly because you kicked the oppressors out, wrote a brand new Constitution - and took it seriously ! What you describe here makes me doubt : is USA becoming Europized ? Reverting to feudalism, pseudo-democracy, corruption, fraud and mob-rule ? If so, where can we find hope ? I still don't know. But I know that at least some americans stand up : judge Pennfield Jackson is still in office (as far as I know). Nader is still at large and Linus Skywalker, eh Thorvalds isn't knighted by emperor Bill yet. Lyvim can criticize his country's legislative system and Todd can even criticize its founding fathers. You can like their opinions or dislike them. But they have freedom of speech - and use it. Without risking incarceration. That's why I envy americans. And linux is about freedom. I don't think that's irrelevant here on this list. May the Force be with us ! Kaj Haulrich Denmark Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Saturdayen den 4 May 2002 05.41, you wrote: On Sat, 4 May 2002 03:46:15 +0200, Kaj Haulrich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Makes me sad, Lyvim. What happened to the land of the free ? We europeans (well, most of us) have great admiration for the United States of America. Mostly because you kicked the oppressors out, wrote a brand new Constitution - and took it seriously ! What you describe here makes me doubt : is USA becoming Europized ? - Reverting to feudalism, pseudo-democracy, corruption, fraud and mob-rule ? If so, where can we find hope ? This seems to be some sort of cycle. England once thought itself as the freest and most democratic nation on earth, with an instilled duty to hold back the tides of despotism (with their old enemy France being the main target of this). They believed this right up to the American Revolution. So what had happened? The 'revolutionary' zeal that had taken England through a civil war only a century earlier had died down, and people had become more conservative. There was little interest in England of promoting democracy in the colonies. While there were some prominent members of parliament, most notably the Prime Minister Pitt (the Elder), who _did_ want parliamentary representation for the Americans, they were greatly outnumbered by the conservatives (IIRC, Pitt resigned because he didn't get it). At the same time, that revolutionary fervour that had to that stage been seen as distinctly English had been transported to the American colonies. It is this that fuelled the American Revolution, just as it had fuelled the English civil wars of the years preceding it. So you might say that the Americans were more 'English' than the English. Now, fast-forward to today. The actions of the US governmental bodies seems no different in principle from the English government of the 1780s. The circumstances are very similar: both are/were well-established bodies and both are/were the major world powers of their day. From their point of view, they have far more to gain by being conservative and preserving the status quo. As an Irani cleric (who now opposes the established theocracy) once said, Power is like water. If it does not flow it becomes stagnant. USA aint becoming Europized its becoming Burgerized Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove?
On Saturdayen den 4 May 2002 09.21, you wrote: daRcmaTTeR wrote: On Sat, 4 May 2002, Kaj Haulrich wrote: Makes me sad, Lyvim. What happened to the land of the free ? We europeans (well, most of us) have great admiration for the United States of America. Mostly because you kicked the oppressors out, wrote a brand new Constitution - and took it seriously ! What you describe here makes me doubt : is USA becoming Europized ? - Reverting to feudalism, pseudo-democracy, corruption, fraud and mob-rule ? Well frankly I prefer the euro system but thats me. And I won't debate further on this list the merits of both/either, thusly inciting a need for asbestos clothing. :) Otherwise I don't care at all : Next month I'll have to buy a brand new PC for my daughter. I Denmark it's impossible to get one without Windows preinstalled. First thing to do : format the whole kadoodle, use the M$-CD as a shining target for her rifle-practice and install Linux. She's really fond of Linux already, what with her boy-friends flocking around a she-guru. hm... ya men seem to enjoy girls who have brains. Surprised? :) If Microsjuft then wants to claim her beauty-box, let 'em try ! Kaj Haulrich Denmark Hoo-ya! you can say that again. Can I hear an Amen brother!? :) Sorry had to say it. -- daRcmaTTeR -- Registered Linux User 182496 All girls have brains, atleast in the present time Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
Derek Byram wrote: a 147 break in snooker always starts with a pot on a single red ;-) -- derek the lurker - essex england - linux user 264346 very true for a 149 break. An extremely rare event I've heard. :) now keep on posting Lurker-wannabe! -- Femme Good Decisions You boss Made: We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that character from Peanuts. - Source: Dilbert Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Friday 03 May 2002 23:53, you wrote: Normally I lurk but this time I have to Say a Well Said along with a Amen to that . I Bend but I do not break to eventually spring back with much force Unidentified French Underground Fighter. There is a war going on to deemphasize the individualism and the heroism that characterized times in our recent past. Some years ago, for instance, a man (bystander) saw a young woman being victimized by a bunch of gang members; probably on her way to being raped, injured, and worse. He single handedly took on the scumballs, and IF memory serves I believe he rescued the lady and ended up running the gang off, probably saving her life. I can't remember if he actually killed any of those criminals or not, but the gist of it was that the state ended up taking the good samaritan to court because they stated that it was the job of the police to protect the citizens and not he. Further.the crime rate of any country has been shown to statistically increase when the law abiding populace is disarmed, yet still the liberals continue to slide laws in that push defensive weapons out of the hands of the law abiding public. There's only one purpose that this could serve, and a reasonable person must assume that the instigators are aware of that purpose. See the book: More Guns, Less Crime : Understanding Crime and Gun-Control Laws (Studies in Law and Economics (Chicago, Ill.).) by John R., Jr. Lott In California, registration leads to confiscation. Even worse, in Massachusets for example, if you are attacked in your own home by an intruder, by law you cannot defend yourself; you are *required* to run away. By state law. If you do defend yourself and injure the intruder you risk ending up in jail yourself. My question is, how in the hell did those laws get passed in front of the public eye? Fortunately in the state of North Carolina we are still allowed to kill home intruders if we can convince a jury that we were in fear of our lives (or those of our loved ones) at the time that the home intrusion took place. Most everyone I know is armed for home defense and has adequate defense measures in place accordingly. Other states have better gun laws than this state (read: less restrictive on law abiding tax paying citizens), such as Texas, Tennessee, and a few others I can't remember. I sound like I'm ranting here, but as I intimated before, the tapestry of this situation is quite large; and it all ties in together. I just focus here on some of the more vital and important problems; such as your recourse if a terrorist/criminal breaks into your family home and puts your wife/kids in mortal danger. For those peeps in the US, if you haven't already, I suggest that you take a careful look at your local/state laws. The bottom line is that all this stuff ties in together at some juncture. The liberal NEA, the teacher's union, the liberal gun control laws, the liberal media that supports Palestine instead of the Israeli democracy (CNN, the commie news network), the DMCA, the choke hold on our information sources, the practice of being taught what to think instead of how to think in our public schools, the erosion of public ethical standards, and finally the lack of personal individual rights that we are beginning to suffer at the hands of the RIAA, MicroShaft, Senator Hollings of South Carolina, Hollywood and others. Our individual rights and identities are being legistlated out of existence via financial might and it happens to be a liberal movement. Bush has nominated over 100 justices to the Supreme Court bench and the Democrats have only let 50 or so of them through. This is kind of like me pretending to hide while I slap your face, then I laugh about it in front of you because I don't think you're smart enough to know I slapped you. If that makes any sense. I will say this, though. From what I've been hearing lately, the Jewish people that *were* democrats in the US have of late publicly revolted; therefore they indeed have seen the light. This is a big deal for the democrats, because of course the Jewish folk are by and large quite affluent; that of course means a big dent in that financial might that I spoke of earlier. Funny.right after that word went up, either today or yesterday the Dems stated openly their support of Israel (wether by law or by speech I am not sure, i was out of town today), thus at long suffering last giving the Israelis what is rightly theirs, NAMELY a carte blanc to handle terrorists in their region AS THEY SEE FIT. How does this apply to our computer rights? Well, for one thing it shows that the voter power in our nation IS STILL INTACT. That means that if we wanted toI mean IF WE REALLY WANTED TO, we could easily back the Electronic Frontier Foundation to the point that the DMCA and the Consumer Broadband and Digital Television act would be nothing
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Fri, 2002-05-03 at 16:13, ed Tharp wrote: what ever happened to the concept of average and reasonable as in; if the average and reasonable person believes they have purchased a CD when they pay their money and leave the store, and does not find out until after having broke the shrinkwrap that the did NOT purchase a CD but instead bought an electronic license device, did they buy a CD as they thought as they paid their money? when is it a sale? and when is it a lease? does not the perception of the average and reasonable consumer determine the fair business practice in common commercial and retail law? does the averge joe typing a letter on his 2gigHz pentium have a clue about the EULA? Ed, I've read the EULA; I can say what it says and implies. But for most of the rest of your questions above, I think we could get a much better idea of what's going on if a lawyer on the list here would contribute his 2c worth. I can give you a best guess to your last question, tho..Nope. LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.8-26mdk Mandrake Linux 8.1 Enlightenment 0.16.5Evolution 1.02 Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove?
daRcmaTTeR wrote: On Sat, 4 May 2002, Kaj Haulrich wrote: Makes me sad, Lyvim. What happened to the land of the free ? We europeans (well, most of us) have great admiration for the United States of America. Mostly because you kicked the oppressors out, wrote a brand new Constitution - and took it seriously ! What you describe here makes me doubt : is USA becoming Europized ? - Reverting to feudalism, pseudo-democracy, corruption, fraud and mob-rule ? Well frankly I prefer the euro system but thats me. And I won't debate further on this list the merits of both/either, thusly inciting a need for asbestos clothing. :) Otherwise I don't care at all : Next month I'll have to buy a brand new PC for my daughter. I Denmark it's impossible to get one without Windows preinstalled. First thing to do : format the whole kadoodle, use the M$-CD as a shining target for her rifle-practice and install Linux. She's really fond of Linux already, what with her boy-friends flocking around a she-guru. hm... ya men seem to enjoy girls who have brains. Surprised? :) If Microsjuft then wants to claim her beauty-box, let 'em try ! Kaj Haulrich Denmark Hoo-ya! you can say that again. Can I hear an Amen brother!? :) Sorry had to say it. -- daRcmaTTeR -- Registered Linux User 182496 -- Femme Good Decisions You boss Made: We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that character from Peanuts. - Source: Dilbert Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Sat, 2002-05-04 at 03:52, Henry B. Wangle Jr. wrote: On Friday 03 May 2002 23:53, you wrote: Normally I lurk but this time I have to Say a Well Said along with a Amen to that . I Bend but I do not break to eventually spring back with much force Unidentified French Underground Fighter. Like it says on the EFF's Alert page: Democracy is not a spectator sport. Freedom requires eternal vigilance and action. Question : What do you call 50 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean ? Answer : A brilliant start Water Pollution (I say this in Jest and with LOL) Henry, Thanks. :) LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.8-26mdk Mandrake Linux 8.1 Enlightenment 0.16.5Evolution 1.02 Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Sat, 4 May 2002 03:46:15 +0200 Kaj Haulrich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 03 May 2002 08:17 am, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: Since they now control the Department of Justice via bribe money, payoffs, and soft money (legal bribe money) I would assume then that they have already merged. Both them and susceptible members of congress. MSUSA is already a reality; the only thing left to do is to congratulate you on coming up with the new name for the old United States. Good work. Now we need to put it into use. Keep up the good work, LX (writing from inside the M$USA) Makes me sad, Lyvim. What happened to the land of the free ? We europeans (well, most of us) have great admiration for the United States of America. Mostly because you kicked the oppressors out, wrote a brand new Constitution - and took it seriously ! What you describe here makes me doubt : is USA becoming Europized ? - Reverting to feudalism, pseudo-democracy, corruption, fraud and mob-rule ? snip The US has always been Europized. The writers of the constitution are known to have commented on how very much they had created a system like England's--a transferral of the monarchy across the Atlantic. The only difference, of course, that there was a new, different ruling elite. One of the founders' greatest fears was that the common man would actually have political power. They feared that if the common man could vote and have political power, that he would institute laws that would redistribute wealth, taking it from the hardworking, noble wealthy and giving it to the shiftless, lazy commoners. The protection of private property from the hungry, greedy masses is the cornerstone of our capitalist system. We talk about how great our system of checks and balances is, in which neither the legislative, judicial, nor executive branch can have too much power. In fact, this serves to perpetuate the status quo--any anti-capitalist, anti-big business legislation, any true reform can never happen because it has to fight all three battles. Sure, you can point to some changes, like the civil rights movement of the 60s, or some labor movements. Those were wars. People were killed. The system did not welcome those changes. The same can be said of our electoral college. We don't directly elect the president, but vote for electors. Why? Should the lazy, shiftless masses ever vote for somebody like Nader in an overwhelming majority, the college would be right there to be sure that a Republicrat were elected instead. (The members of the college theoretically vote for the winner of the popular vote for their constituency, but there is no law stating that they have to. It is just one more protection for private property.) So democracy was never really an issue. Here we are raised to believe the myth that we live in a democracy, when the truly defining institution that enslaves us is capitalism. In the US, you get about as much democracy, freedom, and justice as you can pay for. This is why I will be fined $500 for dumping trash along the side of the road, but a giant corporation that poisons our drinking water and air does not pay a penalty, but gets rewarded with huge tax breaks. Justice, huh? Oh, I forgot, those multi-billion dollar transnational corporations need that money to create more jobs and fight the war on terrorism. Thank God, what with the Cold War being over, we might actually have considered spending money in all the wrong places. The sons of the poor will continue to die fighting for the rights of the sons of the rich to continue to exploit them, all the time believing they are fighting for democracy. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for private property, democracy, and free speech; I enjoy possessing stuff and ranting. But like Bush says, there ought to be limits to freedom. There ought to be limits on the extent to which corporations can exploit their workers and the environment. There ought to be limits to how much our politicians can bend over and take it from their corporate sponsors. Not that I'm jaded or anything ;-) Todd -- Todd Slater 10:47am up 9 days, 58 min, 2 users, load average: 0.15, 0.11, 0.14 2.4.8-26mdk We are students of words; we are shut up in schools, and colleges, and recitation rooms, for ten or fifteen years, and come out at last with a bag of wind, a memory of words, and do not know a thing. (Ralph Waldo Emerson) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove?
On Sat, 4 May 2002, RichardA wrote: What a load of crap. I don't subscribe to this list to see pro gun zealots foaming at the mouth about murdering petty criminals. I dare say some of my political views would upset you. You'll notice I don't subject you to them. RichardA foaming at the mouth? OOooo...thats good! now then...thars anutter cuntry heard from. -- daRcmaTTeR -- Registered Linux User 182496 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove?
On Sat, 4 May 2002, Alastair Scott wrote: On Saturday 04 May 2002 11:38 am, RichardA wrote: What a load of crap. I don't subscribe to this list to see pro gun zealots foaming at the mouth about murdering petty criminals. I dare say some of my political views would upset you. You'll notice I don't subject you to them. Indeed - the attitudes expressed in the original post are incomprehensible to me. (Not everyone is American). I'm tempted to set up a [mandrake-off-topic] Yahoo! group. Should I? Alastair O! would you please? :) -- daRcmaTTeR -- Registered Linux User 182496 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove?
On 4 May 2002, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: On Fri, 2002-05-03 at 18:46, David wrote: Well, this has worked sometimes (for a friend, of course--I would never do something like this)... When making your copies of some microshit, instead of just copying disk-to-disk, copy all files to your HD. Then find the file named EULA.txt and edit away. Then burn your CDs. HTH Dave -- This is interesting. I wonder if there are any lawyers on the list here who could say wether this is a bona fide loophole or not? LX evul grin as a matter of fact, yes...they're a couple of posts up yonder from this one. :\ -- daRcmaTTeR -- Registered Linux User 182496 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Saturday 04 May 2002 07:39, you wrote: Derek Byram wrote: a 147 break in snooker always starts with a pot on a single red ;-) -- derek the lurker - essex england - linux user 264346 very true for a 149 break. An extremely rare event I've heard. :) now keep on posting Lurker-wannabe! Better not to for the moment: I've learned I cannot add anything to this list with my current level of knowledge - I have learned so much just by reading and have been entertained as well as educated, doubel the fun. Perhaps at some time in the future I may be able to conritbute whorthwhile input and will gladly do so. But thanks for the encouragement anyway:) -- derek Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Wed, 2002-05-01 at 17:52, Robin Turner wrote: Not quite. Back in the 18th and 19th centuries there was the East India Company, which successfully colonised most of the Indian subcontinent, and was only absorbed into the British Empire after a mutiny of its native soldiers resutled in unspeakable carnage. Presumably the moral is that Microsoft should merge with the American government to create MSUSA. Sir Robin Since they now control the Department of Justice via bribe money, payoffs, and soft money (legal bribe money) I would assume then that they have already merged. Both them and susceptible members of congress. MSUSA is already a reality; the only thing left to do is to congratulate you on coming up with the new name for the old United States. Good work. Now we need to put it into use. Keep up the good work, LX (writing from inside the M$USA) -- °°° Kernel 2.4.8-26mdk Mandrake Linux 8.1 Enlightenment 0.16.5Evolution 1.02 Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Thu, 2002-05-02 at 12:26, daRcmaTTeR wrote: Damian, sadly, historically americans haven't taken notice to something about to eat them for lunch until it has them on it's dinner plate and us about to start cutting. _thats_ usually when the thing is taken seriously and action is taken. 9/11 is a painfully clear example of that. i get the impression that it stems from a somewhat internally cultivated isolationist attitude. a can't touch this mind set. know what I mean? -- daRcmaTTeR -- What it stems from is a mind numbingly selfish attitude promoted by the media, which is primarily concerned with itself and hollywood, and not at all with people suffering and dying in the only democracy in the mideast, which is Israel. This obsession with our own reflection in the pool, this narcissistic tendency, is promoted by the liberal media and keeps everyone here dumb as dirt with regard to events worldwide, and on the wrong side of the fence when it comes to ethics. When was the last time you saw a system administrator interviewed on one of the morning shows? How about an electrical engineer? How about an Israeli soldier, or even Rush Limbaugh? How about viruses attributed to Microshit software instead of the Linux operating system? Or even a MENTION of the Linux OS? This is a wide sampling, but I'm damned if it's a sampling you're sure as heck NOT gonna see. Because that's not on their agenda. What you WILL see is fluff and anti ethics; because that's part of their agenda. Look for Rosie O'Donnel, or Oprah, or Jerry Springer, or crap like that, and you will get blown over like somebody aimed a firehose at you. There does happen to be a large contingent of peeps in the M$USA that do have strong ethical concerns about 5 year old girls being used as murder weapons on the Israelis; or for increasing the average intelligence quotient of the population. The media just does not happen to be a part of that contingent. LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.8-26mdk Mandrake Linux 8.1 Enlightenment 0.16.5Evolution 1.02 Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Thu, 2002-05-02 at 04:35, Mcleod, Ian wrote: I would like to send some 'pirated' software to Micro$oft to prove that I am not an evil civilisation destroying Linux geek. Unopened or 'off the press' pirated software is best - as it shows how little we want this junk that we won't even take it for free. Ian, M$ is already aware that you are not an evil civilization destroyer. The full depth of their wrongdoing is not yet apparent to you. They are already aware that *they* are the ones transgressing ethical barriers and destroying capitalism; they are aware of this totally, and they utterly DON'T CARE. Not only are they knowingly breaking the law, but also they have no compunction for blaming you instead of them. What they are after is total control at any price, and they are almost there. They just have to sidestep a fullblown revolt for a short time. They have adoped some simple methods in order to accomplish this. What they are doing to you and everybody else is a time tested tactic; it's called projection psychology. It works like this; if you happen to know that you are guilty of a transgression, in order to protect yourself (knowingly, and sometimes unknowingly), you project those misdeeds on someone else (by accusing and blaming them of your violations) and thereby fool bystanders and even perhaps yourself into believing that your target is the guilty one instead of yourself. Since THEY are the evil civilization destroyers, and also have been so accused (and proven in court and elsewhere) they then project that attribute on the Linux world in order to turn the tables. If you're not watching your back, then you yourself can easily fall into that psycho trap. Don't let it happen. Expose what they are doing to everyone you know. Their software is so bad that I would not even waste my hard disk space with it - even if I can save $500 by installing it - M$ make the mistake of thinking that all people want M$. It would shock them to find that an increasing number of people won't touch M$ even if it is given away! Send all pirated software to Micro$oft! Show how much we really care about their software! Ha ha - not only people sending unopened new software that they don't want - but pirated software they don't want to - back to the original vendor - ha ha ha. They always wanted pirates to send in their software - but I don't think M$ wanted people to send it in because they think the pirated software is junk - not because they are reporting anyone. Ian McLeod LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.8-26mdk Mandrake Linux 8.1 Enlightenment 0.16.5Evolution 1.02 Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove?
On Wed, 2002-05-01 at 14:01, Miark wrote: What ms considers to be illegal is the following: I buy a machine with preinstalled windows I uninstall windows and install a real os I sell/give the version of windows that came with the machine to someone else What ms wants is that when I sell or give away the machine, I must also hand the original version of windows to whoever gets the machine also. That makes more sense, but not much more. Winblows, even on pre-installed computers, costs something, and that cost is passed on to the final consumer. So despite its cost being buried in a sticker price, you pay for Winsux on a pre-installed computer. In my way of thinking, if I pay for it, I have the right to sell it-- even separately, if I choose. Miark Ethically, you are correct. Lawfully, you could be fined, sued or jailed. There has been a clear disparity of ethics and law within the last 10 years; heads up. Time to go activist, and get these losers out of power. If anyone sells a preloaded XP machine, I suggest strongly that all identifying marks be removed, and possibly the machine be parted out or recombined with other parts. Serial numbers everywhere should be removed. Oh, and make sure you government-wipe the drive and load Mandrake. Just a thought. ;) LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.8-26mdk Mandrake Linux 8.1 Enlightenment 0.16.5Evolution 1.02 Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Fri, 2002-05-03 at 09:43, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: M$ can only screw you if you let them. Personally I don't give a rats A$$ about M$ or their products. The only reason I still have M$ is to play the couple of games I like to play. Oh I don't even read the licensee agreement that M$ uses, because I don't care what it says. M$ is a prime example of that; they've redefined the myriad ways that a EULA can screw the common man. LX I don't give a rat about the EULA either, but that's because I haven't agreed to the terms of the EULA. Which in turn means I don't use the software. The thing to be aware of is that if you are presently using the software, you are then bound by the terms of their agreement (and therefore it's legal consequences) wether you care or nottherefore it is possible to come under legal fire for violations OF that agreement. Such as the SPA paying you a visit for alleged pirated copies of software. Then if they discover inconsistencies you may be looking at an SPA fine levied for someone not being able to produce the original license numbers or manuscript, or even some kind of lawsuit. With M$ stock being overleveraged by 40 or 50 times, it's not beyond the realm of possiblity that regular visits by the SPA will soon be commonplace, as they rely on the government to supply their profits for them. They are already attempting to replace proper programming with legislation that goes after the crackers, instead of doing the right thing and writing the software correctly to begin with. They are also crowbarring their way into schools so that they can prey on the taxpayer's money and the minds of the children. It's only another ass scratch over to the point where they search out and demand money for unaccounted copies of their software. If they start to go Enron, then you can expect an all out user hunt. LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.8-26mdk Mandrake Linux 8.1 Enlightenment 0.16.5Evolution 1.02 Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
Lyvim Xaphir wrote: On Fri, 2002-05-03 at 02:12, Damian G wrote: Well, someone who cannot post to the list because his ISP is out picking daisies and not supplying reverse resolution sent me a missive pointing out that no one buys Windows. It is a license one buys, nothing more. hi Civileme. uhm.. i do not agree with that part, nor do i think a proper trial would, just like the case of that guy that god sued by Adobe for reselling. as long as the transaction has the form of a sell, it is a sell. period. if buying a cd of any kind of product implied that license, then the buyer should get to read a printed copy of the license or something, before he made the purchase. but if you just enter a shop, lay off some money and take a CD, then you just bought a CD, and the bytes contained in it do not matter until you put that CD in a reader device and read them. there's no such thing as when you buy that CD you are really buying a license. Namely put, as long as you do not put the CD into a CD reader, it technically is just a piece of plastic to you. that's how that Adobe trial ended anyway.. Damian Civ does have a point. According to the EULA, you do NOT own the software; you are only granted a license to use the software at MicroShaft's behest. When you buy the CD, you are indeed buying a license. Now wether you decide to USE that license or not at whatever time in the future is up to you; but that does not nullify the fact that you purchased the license. If you want to leave that license on the shelf, that's your right, but again it does not affect the fact that you purchased a license, and your invoice is your proof of purchase for that license. What I'm discussing here is basically YOUR contract with the seller of the software. If we discuss another software seller other than M$, then the terms of that EULA may well indeed dictate that you DO OWN the software; in which case your assertion holds true. The bottom line is that no matter what you or I consider ethically right with respect to what we bought, we both are legally bound by the terms of use of the authors (copyrighters) wether we like that or not. The USE of the software and agreement to the terms of use constitute a contract; and a contract can say ANYTHING. M$ is a prime example of that; they've redefined the myriad ways that a EULA can screw the common man. LX Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com There is one thing important to the difference between the Adobe case (which will almost certainly be appealed) and the Microsoft License--the license is click-wrapped on MS and was not on Adobe. In other words, you have to click to agree to the license terms in order to use MS software, thus agreeing to the contract. If you click on Not Agree then a message banner comes up with instructions on returning the software for refund, and informing you that you may not use the software. Mnay versions of the EULA do indeed provide options on disposal of the system, indicating you may not transfer the software to another system, but they do imply that you can sell the system with its original software or bare. If now they are saying removal of the software cannot be legally accomplished within the terms of that license, then that is a new wrinkle and a modification of the original EULA, which the user may or may not have previously agreed to by clicking. Civileme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
I hear that... If it does go Enron then they also have to prove I have that on my systems, at which time will have nothing but Mandrake, Redhat, SuSe, or anyone of the other flavors out there. Believe me I am not paying a dime to that co, nor am I going to jail for them either. But, none the less you did make good points. I don't agree with the license agreement but the only way I can use is to click yes. I haven't found a way to get around that yet. Anyway if I could get winex to work I wouldn't need to use that inferior product anyway. If they start to go Enron, then you can expect an all out user hunt. LX Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
Damian G wrote: i'll hunt down the links later, if i find it, i'll post the link where i found a snip of that judge's resolution.. Here is a link to a page with links to other pages (sorry about that ;-) that deal with rulings oveturning the validity of at least some claims in an EULA. (Note that these rulings are subject to further appeal (and, you can bet that they will be, since they are unfavorable to Microsoft and other big software companies): http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Wikilearn/MicrosoftIssuesIllegalToRemoveWindowsResources Randy Kramer Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove?
Civ does have a point. According to the EULA, you do NOT own the software; you are only granted a license to use the software at MicroShaft's behest. When you buy the CD, you are indeed buying a license. Now wether you decide to USE that license or not at whatever time in the future is up to you; but that does not nullify the fact that you purchased the license. If you want to leave that license on the shelf, that's your right, but again it does not affect the fact that you purchased a license, and your invoice is your proof of purchase for that license. What I'm discussing here is basically YOUR contract with the seller of the software. If we discuss another software seller other than M$, then the terms of that EULA may well indeed dictate that you DO OWN the software; in which case your assertion holds true. The bottom line is that no matter what you or I consider ethically right with respect to what we bought, we both are legally bound by the terms of use of the authors (copyrighters) wether we like that or not. The USE of the software and agreement to the terms of use constitute a contract; and a contract can say ANYTHING. M$ is a prime example of that; they've redefined the myriad ways that a EULA can screw the common man. LX well said LX...well said. you make a very good argument that is compelling. I shall now be quiet. ;) -- daRcmaTTeR -- Registered Linux User 182496 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Fri, 3 May 2002 10:56:50 -0400 (EDT) daRcmaTTeR [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The bottom line is that no matter what you or I consider ethically right with respect to what we bought, we both are legally bound by the terms of use of the authors (copyrighters) wether we like that or not. The USE of the software and agreement to the terms of use constitute a contract; and a contract can say ANYTHING. M$ is a prime example of that; they've redefined the myriad ways that a EULA can screw the common man. LX well said LX...well said. you make a very good argument that is compelling. I shall now be quiet. ;) -- daRcmaTTeR -- Yup. LX is going off his rails again but this time I'm inclined to agree with him. ;) FWIW, I use windows too...however much their EULA asserts they own my hardware, they can bite my pretty fanny if they think i'm going to capitulate say... Why yes! You can take my comp with my 2k OS ! Femme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove?
On Fri, 3 May 2002, Femme wrote: On Fri, 3 May 2002 10:56:50 -0400 (EDT) daRcmaTTeR [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The bottom line is that no matter what you or I consider ethically right with respect to what we bought, we both are legally bound by the terms of use of the authors (copyrighters) wether we like that or not. The USE of the software and agreement to the terms of use constitute a contract; and a contract can say ANYTHING. M$ is a prime example of that; they've redefined the myriad ways that a EULA can screw the common man. LX well said LX...well said. you make a very good argument that is compelling. I shall now be quiet. ;) -- daRcmaTTeR -- Yup. LX is going off his rails again but this time I'm inclined to agree with him. ;) FWIW, I use windows too...however much their EULA asserts they own my hardware, they can bite my pretty fanny if they think i'm going to capitulate say... Why yes! You can take my comp with my 2k OS ! Femme I'm with you femme...they can kiss my white american...eh-hem...behind of they even think about taking my hardware. i can guarentee they won't leave in the same condition they arrived in. -- daRcmaTTeR -- Registered Linux User 182496 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
what ever happened to the concept of average and reasonable as in; if the average and reasonable person believes they have purchased a CD when they pay their money and leave the store, and does not find out until after having broke the shrinkwrap that the did NOT purchase a CD but instead bought an electronic license device, did they buy a CD as they thought as they paid their money? when is it a sale? and when is it a lease? does not the perception of the average and reasonable consumer determine the fair business practice in common commercial and retail law? does the averge joe typing a letter on his 2gigHz pentium have a clue about the EULA? On Friday 03 May 2002 02:48 am, you wrote: On Fri, 2002-05-03 at 02:12, Damian G wrote: Well, someone who cannot post to the list because his ISP is out picking daisies and not supplying reverse resolution sent me a missive pointing out that no one buys Windows. It is a license one buys, nothing more. hi Civileme. uhm.. i do not agree with that part, nor do i think a proper trial would, just like the case of that guy that god sued by Adobe for reselling. as long as the transaction has the form of a sell, it is a sell. period. if buying a cd of any kind of product implied that license, then the buyer should get to read a printed copy of the license or something, before he made the purchase. but if you just enter a shop, lay off some money and take a CD, then you just bought a CD, and the bytes contained in it do not matter until you put that CD in a reader device and read them. there's no such thing as when you buy that CD you are really buying a license. Namely put, as long as you do not put the CD into a CD reader, it technically is just a piece of plastic to you. that's how that Adobe trial ended anyway.. Damian Civ does have a point. According to the EULA, you do NOT own the software; you are only granted a license to use the software at MicroShaft's behest. When you buy the CD, you are indeed buying a license. Now wether you decide to USE that license or not at whatever time in the future is up to you; but that does not nullify the fact that you purchased the license. If you want to leave that license on the shelf, that's your right, but again it does not affect the fact that you purchased a license, and your invoice is your proof of purchase for that license. What I'm discussing here is basically YOUR contract with the seller of the software. If we discuss another software seller other than M$, then the terms of that EULA may well indeed dictate that you DO OWN the software; in which case your assertion holds true. The bottom line is that no matter what you or I consider ethically right with respect to what we bought, we both are legally bound by the terms of use of the authors (copyrighters) wether we like that or not. The USE of the software and agreement to the terms of use constitute a contract; and a contract can say ANYTHING. M$ is a prime example of that; they've redefined the myriad ways that a EULA can screw the common man. LX Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Fri, 3 May 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hear that... If it does go Enron then they also have to prove I have that on my systems, at which time will have nothing but Mandrake, Redhat, SuSe, or anyone of the other flavors out there. Believe me I am not paying a dime to that co, nor am I going to jail for them either. But, none the less you did make good points. I don't agree with the license agreement but the only way I can use is to click yes. I haven't found a way to get around that yet. Anyway if I could get winex to work I wouldn't need to use that inferior product anyway. If they start to go Enron, then you can expect an all out user hunt. LX thats a really scary thought...M$ going enron. yikes! -- daRcmaTTeR -- Registered Linux User 182496 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said onto me: -- |I hear that... | |If it does go Enron then they also have to prove I have that on my systems, |at which time will have nothing but Mandrake, Redhat, SuSe, or anyone of the |other flavors out there. Believe me I am not paying a dime to that co, nor |am I going to jail for them either. | |But, none the less you did make good points. I don't agree with the license |agreement but the only way I can use is to click yes. I haven't found a way |to get around that yet. Well, this has worked sometimes (for a friend, of course--I would never do something like this)... When making your copies of some microshit, instead of just copying disk-to-disk, copy all files to your HD. Then find the file named EULA.txt and edit away. Then burn your CDs. HTH Dave | |Anyway if I could get winex to work I wouldn't need to use that inferior |product anyway. | | |If they start to go Enron, then |you can expect an all out user hunt. | |LX | | | -- -- °°° David L. Steiner Registered Linux User #262493 Mandrake 8.2 Enlightenment 0.16.5 Sylpheed 0.7.4claws Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage: www.davidlsteiner.com °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Friday 03 May 2002 08:17 am, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: Since they now control the Department of Justice via bribe money, payoffs, and soft money (legal bribe money) I would assume then that they have already merged. Both them and susceptible members of congress. MSUSA is already a reality; the only thing left to do is to congratulate you on coming up with the new name for the old United States. Good work. Now we need to put it into use. Keep up the good work, LX (writing from inside the M$USA) Makes me sad, Lyvim. What happened to the land of the free ? We europeans (well, most of us) have great admiration for the United States of America. Mostly because you kicked the oppressors out, wrote a brand new Constitution - and took it seriously ! What you describe here makes me doubt : is USA becoming Europized ? - Reverting to feudalism, pseudo-democracy, corruption, fraud and mob-rule ? If so, where can we find hope ? When I was a kid (I still am, sort of) I liked westerns. The lone rider versus the system. What happened to him ? Question : What do you call 50 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean ? Answer : A brilliant start OK - that was my refugium depressivum for today. Otherwise I don't care at all : Next month I'll have to buy a brand new PC for my daughter. I Denmark it's impossible to get one without Windows preinstalled. First thing to do : format the whole kadoodle, use the M$-CD as a shining target for her rifle-practice and install Linux. She's really fond of Linux already, what with her boy-friends flocking around a she-guru. If Microsjuft then wants to claim her beauty-box, let 'em try ! Kaj Haulrich Denmark Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Saturday 04 May 2002 02:46, you wrote: On Friday 03 May 2002 08:17 am, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: SNIP Question : What do you call 50 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean ? Answer : A brilliant start Kaj Haulrich Denmark not enough lawyers :( -- derek the lurker Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Saturday 04 May 2002 04:16 am, Derek Byram wrote: On Saturday 04 May 2002 02:46, you wrote: On Friday 03 May 2002 08:17 am, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: SNIP Question : What do you call 50 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean ? Answer : A brilliant start Kaj Haulrich Denmark not enough lawyers :( derek the lurker A journey of a thousand miles starts with one step (Konfutse) Kaj Haulrich Denmark Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Saturday 04 May 2002 03:33, you wrote: On Saturday 04 May 2002 04:16 am, Derek Byram wrote: On Saturday 04 May 2002 02:46, you wrote: On Friday 03 May 2002 08:17 am, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: SNIP Question : What do you call 50 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean ? Answer : A brilliant start Kaj Haulrich Denmark not enough lawyers :( derek the lurker A journey of a thousand miles starts with one step (Konfutse) Kaj Haulrich Denmark COOL *G* a 147 break in snooker always starts with a pot on a single red ;-) -- derek the lurker - essex england - linux user 264346 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Saturday 04 May 2002 03:33, you wrote: On Saturday 04 May 2002 04:16 am, Derek Byram wrote: On Saturday 04 May 2002 02:46, you wrote: On Friday 03 May 2002 08:17 am, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: SNIP Question : What do you call 50 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean ? Answer : A brilliant start Kaj Haulrich Denmark not enough lawyers :( derek the lurker A journey of a thousand miles starts with one step (Konfutse) Kaj Haulrich Denmark COOL *G* a 147 break in snooker always starts with a pot on a single red ;-) -- derek the lurker - essex england - linux user 264346 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove?
On Sat, 4 May 2002, Kaj Haulrich wrote: Makes me sad, Lyvim. What happened to the land of the free ? We europeans (well, most of us) have great admiration for the United States of America. Mostly because you kicked the oppressors out, wrote a brand new Constitution - and took it seriously ! What you describe here makes me doubt : is USA becoming Europized ? - Reverting to feudalism, pseudo-democracy, corruption, fraud and mob-rule ? If so, where can we find hope ? When I was a kid (I still am, sort of) I liked westerns. The lone rider versus the system. What happened to him ? Question : What do you call 50 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean ? Answer : A brilliant start OK - that was my refugium depressivum for today. Otherwise I don't care at all : Next month I'll have to buy a brand new PC for my daughter. I Denmark it's impossible to get one without Windows preinstalled. First thing to do : format the whole kadoodle, use the M$-CD as a shining target for her rifle-practice and install Linux. She's really fond of Linux already, what with her boy-friends flocking around a she-guru. If Microsjuft then wants to claim her beauty-box, let 'em try ! Kaj Haulrich Denmark Hoo-ya! you can say that again. -- daRcmaTTeR -- Registered Linux User 182496 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Sat, 4 May 2002 03:46:15 +0200, Kaj Haulrich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Makes me sad, Lyvim. What happened to the land of the free ? We europeans (well, most of us) have great admiration for the United States of America. Mostly because you kicked the oppressors out, wrote a brand new Constitution - and took it seriously ! What you describe here makes me doubt : is USA becoming Europized ? - Reverting to feudalism, pseudo-democracy, corruption, fraud and mob-rule ? If so, where can we find hope ? This seems to be some sort of cycle. England once thought itself as the freest and most democratic nation on earth, with an instilled duty to hold back the tides of despotism (with their old enemy France being the main target of this). They believed this right up to the American Revolution. So what had happened? The 'revolutionary' zeal that had taken England through a civil war only a century earlier had died down, and people had become more conservative. There was little interest in England of promoting democracy in the colonies. While there were some prominent members of parliament, most notably the Prime Minister Pitt (the Elder), who _did_ want parliamentary representation for the Americans, they were greatly outnumbered by the conservatives (IIRC, Pitt resigned because he didn't get it). At the same time, that revolutionary fervour that had to that stage been seen as distinctly English had been transported to the American colonies. It is this that fuelled the American Revolution, just as it had fuelled the English civil wars of the years preceding it. So you might say that the Americans were more 'English' than the English. Now, fast-forward to today. The actions of the US governmental bodies seems no different in principle from the English government of the 1780s. The circumstances are very similar: both are/were well-established bodies and both are/were the major world powers of their day. From their point of view, they have far more to gain by being conservative and preserving the status quo. As an Irani cleric (who now opposes the established theocracy) once said, Power is like water. If it does not flow it becomes stagnant. -- Sridhar Dhanapalan I'll bet you $5 USD (and these days, that's about a gadzillion Euros) that this explains it. -- Linus Torvalds Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Fri, 2002-05-03 at 18:46, David wrote: Well, this has worked sometimes (for a friend, of course--I would never do something like this)... When making your copies of some microshit, instead of just copying disk-to-disk, copy all files to your HD. Then find the file named EULA.txt and edit away. Then burn your CDs. HTH Dave -- This is interesting. I wonder if there are any lawyers on the list here who could say wether this is a bona fide loophole or not? LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.8-26mdk Mandrake Linux 8.1 Enlightenment 0.16.5Evolution 1.02 Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Fri, 2002-05-03 at 21:46, Kaj Haulrich wrote: On Friday 03 May 2002 08:17 am, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: Since they now control the Department of Justice via bribe money, payoffs, and soft money (legal bribe money) I would assume then that they have already merged. Both them and susceptible members of congress. MSUSA is already a reality; the only thing left to do is to congratulate you on coming up with the new name for the old United States. Good work. Now we need to put it into use. Keep up the good work, LX (writing from inside the M$USA) Makes me sad, Lyvim. What happened to the land of the free ? We europeans (well, most of us) have great admiration for the United States of America. Mostly because you kicked the oppressors out, wrote a brand new Constitution - and took it seriously ! What you describe here makes me doubt : is USA becoming Europized ? - Reverting to feudalism, pseudo-democracy, corruption, fraud and mob-rule ? If so, where can we find hope ? Sorry. Sometimes I get disillusioned when I see what is going on in our political system. I guess I should have more faith in the system; but I'm sincerely worried that we are indeed becoming Europized. There's just too much destructive force in our system right now; I've been tracking a huge amount of it, and I confess, sometimes I get depressed about it, because I wonder if the good people are going to get the wake up call in time to avert disaster. (which is right about yesterday.) The good folk don't seem to be getting alarmed at the backslide of values in our society; when they should be very angry and upset about it. When I review the evidence concerning the NEA and the democratic party, and what looks like a marxist movement to destroy our society from within, I really cannot understand why people are not making changes in the leadership of this country. When I was a kid (I still am, sort of) I liked westerns. The lone rider versus the system. What happened to him ? There is a war going on to deemphasize the individualism and the heroism that characterized times in our recent past. Some years ago, for instance, a man (bystander) saw a young woman being victimized by a bunch of gang members; probably on her way to being raped, injured, and worse. He single handedly took on the scumballs, and IF memory serves I believe he rescued the lady and ended up running the gang off, probably saving her life. I can't remember if he actually killed any of those criminals or not, but the gist of it was that the state ended up taking the good samaritan to court because they stated that it was the job of the police to protect the citizens and not he. Further.the crime rate of any country has been shown to statistically increase when the law abiding populace is disarmed, yet still the liberals continue to slide laws in that push defensive weapons out of the hands of the law abiding public. There's only one purpose that this could serve, and a reasonable person must assume that the instigators are aware of that purpose. See the book: More Guns, Less Crime : Understanding Crime and Gun-Control Laws (Studies in Law and Economics (Chicago, Ill.).) by John R., Jr. Lott In California, registration leads to confiscation. Even worse, in Massachusets for example, if you are attacked in your own home by an intruder, by law you cannot defend yourself; you are *required* to run away. By state law. If you do defend yourself and injure the intruder you risk ending up in jail yourself. My question is, how in the hell did those laws get passed in front of the public eye? Fortunately in the state of North Carolina we are still allowed to kill home intruders if we can convince a jury that we were in fear of our lives (or those of our loved ones) at the time that the home intrusion took place. Most everyone I know is armed for home defense and has adequate defense measures in place accordingly. Other states have better gun laws than this state (read: less restrictive on law abiding tax paying citizens), such as Texas, Tennessee, and a few others I can't remember. I sound like I'm ranting here, but as I intimated before, the tapestry of this situation is quite large; and it all ties in together. I just focus here on some of the more vital and important problems; such as your recourse if a terrorist/criminal breaks into your family home and puts your wife/kids in mortal danger. For those peeps in the US, if you haven't already, I suggest that you take a careful look at your local/state laws. The bottom line is that all this stuff ties in together at some juncture. The liberal NEA, the teacher's union, the liberal gun control laws, the liberal media that supports Palestine instead of the Israeli democracy (CNN, the commie news network), the DMCA, the choke hold on our information sources, the practice of being taught what to think instead of how to think in our public schools, the erosion
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove?
civileme wrote: giant snip *Hugs ya* HI :) And Yes you do have power. Build your own systems. Let the manufacturers who ship Windows and support Microsoft so steadfastly twist in the wind. Buy from their competitiors if they offer pre-installed linux. I do. Believe me. Refuse to let my partner buy any other way as well. Anyway, the important point is that you CAN remove windows and return it provided you never have used it or clicked OK to the license agreement. Only Dell requires the return of the entire system AFAIK. Civileme Hah! Does that apply only to the US Australia though? Here in canada I've heard nary a peep! Correct me if i'm wrong ? -- Femme Good Decisions You boss Made: We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that character from Peanuts. - Source: Dilbert Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove?
Here is a thought. Why don't people uninstall Windows, then email the whole package in little files back to M$. That should screw up their mail-servers for a few months, and suggest that they should spend the next 3 or more years quietly working on a way to email their hardware back to them ;-) magnet clearly the first part wouldn't be a problem, but i have a feeling that the second aspect of that would be somewhat hard on the networks. -- daRcmaTTeR -- Registered Linux User 182496 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove?
On Thu, 2 May 2002 12:57:13 +0300 Robin Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thursday 02 May 2002 10:13, FemmeFatale wrote: civileme wrote: giant snip *Hugs ya* HI :) And Yes you do have power. Build your own systems. Let the manufacturers who ship Windows and support Microsoft so steadfastly twist in the wind. Buy from their competitiors if they offer pre-installed linux. I do. Believe me. Refuse to let my partner buy any other way as well. Anyway, the important point is that you CAN remove windows and return it provided you never have used it or clicked OK to the license agreement. Only Dell requires the return of the entire system AFAIK. Civileme Hah! Does that apply only to the US Australia though? Here in canada I've heard nary a peep! Here in Turkey you normally get a computer installed with a pirate copy of Windows! Sir Robin hmm.. same as here, but that's not enough. simply by using their crap we are feeding the monster.. Damian Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove?
On Wed, 1 May 2002, civileme wrote: That's right. You do not own your computer if you use windows because you can do only what is permitted by the EULA. Some versions of the EULA that you click to agree to allow Microsoft to modify the EULA without notice. This happened to many folks who bought NT workstation planning to use it as a server with Netscape Enterprise. In the blink of a Microsoft attorney's eye, the EULA was changed to permit no more than 10 simultaneous connections, and NT workstation users had to upgrade to NT server (which, incidentally came with IIS for 'free'). I was one of those who said to myself Have to? while rubbing the egg off my face for not reading the EULA before clicking it. I turned to linux and never looked back. But actually if you read earlier EULAs, the rub is that if you don't agree, you must return the software. I have done that. I know others have done that. One woman managed to get a refund of the microsoft 'tax' after six months of wrangling with eMachines. When that splashed in the news and others started to move toward returning the windows, Michael Dell popped up and said with Dell you have to return the whole system. I haven't bought a Dell since and I never recommend them, not only for that reason but also because they are short-cutting the real hardware and making their boards proprietary. Many times I have tried to help someone with Aureal drivers only to learn they have a Turtle Beach card from Dell which is just different enough not to work with anything but Dell issue drivers. [small snip] well...there's another one to add to the they suck list. -- daRcmaTTeR -- Registered Linux User 182496 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove?
On Thu, 2002-05-02 at 05:57, Robin Turner wrote: Here in Turkey you normally get a computer installed with a pirate copy of Windows! Sir Robin Here in the US, there's a version of XP running around that has all M internet contact ability ripped out of the core. It installs without contacting M$, and does not do the customary updating after the XP installation is complete. In fact, this version supposedly never contacts M$ EVER. I've had it offered to me by some insiders; but since I have converted completely to Linux (Mandrake) I declined. Anything that smacks of M$ these days is completely repulsive. Which I have a little different perspective on that these days than most, since I and some of my friends been involved in the computer industry from the Dos-only days. Unfortunately I've grokked the M$ entity very thoroughly; therefore my disgust is complete and total. As a matter of fact, a friend was happily talking to me last night about the latest virus software, and some of the latest wiz-bang winblows hole-fixer software, and some of the problems they had circumvented surrounding Outlook. I hate to admit it, but I found my eyes glazing over as I was totally disinterested. From a Mandrake standpoint, it's like peering through a looking glass into another world, where the computer users there are enslaved and suffering, and yet don't see the yokes on their backs. It's gotten to be very surreal. LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.8-26mdk Mandrake Linux 8.1 Enlightenment 0.16.5Evolution 1.02 Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove?
On Wed, 1 May 2002, FemmeFatale wrote: What M$ wants isn't fair still IMO. That means that you don't own that OS. Your example is *considering this is M$'s logic if it is true* flawed. Basically taht means my Pre-loaded OS isn't mine to sell, keep or give away with my hardware or w/out it. Thats absurd. Its like saying, I bought an apple I have no right to give it away w/out giving away the piemakings I had ready to use with it too. yeah...they want your money, but they don't want you to have the right of self-determination of the object that you've bought and paid for. It's to be theirs forever no matter where it is. they're really messed up people, ya know? -- daRcmaTTeR -- Registered Linux User 182496 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove?
not only in yurkey my friend , not only there :) !!! swiss aren't the legalest too ... and you can install every version of XP you want , there are thousands of good tools out there , to keep your XP in your box and don't let it send anything out you don't want to be sent ... ! at least i hate m$ too , but i try to help my friends which aren't that linuxfriendly as i am to get 'free copies' , a broadbandconnection an edonkey and irc does the rest ... keep the net free !!! Am Don, 2002-05-02 um 18.33 schrieb Lyvim Xaphir: On Thu, 2002-05-02 at 05:57, Robin Turner wrote: Here in Turkey you normally get a computer installed with a pirate copy of Windows! Sir Robin Here in the US, there's a version of XP running around that has all M internet contact ability ripped out of the core. It installs without contacting M$, and does not do the customary updating after the XP installation is complete. In fact, this version supposedly never contacts M$ EVER. I've had it offered to me by some insiders; but since I have converted completely to Linux (Mandrake) I declined. Anything that smacks of M$ these days is completely repulsive. Which I have a little different perspective on that these days than most, since I and some of my friends been involved in the computer industry from the Dos-only days. Unfortunately I've grokked the M$ entity very thoroughly; therefore my disgust is complete and total. As a matter of fact, a friend was happily talking to me last night about the latest virus software, and some of the latest wiz-bang winblows hole-fixer software, and some of the problems they had circumvented surrounding Outlook. I hate to admit it, but I found my eyes glazing over as I was totally disinterested. From a Mandrake standpoint, it's like peering through a looking glass into another world, where the computer users there are enslaved and suffering, and yet don't see the yokes on their backs. It's gotten to be very surreal. LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.8-26mdk Mandrake Linux 8.1 Enlightenment 0.16.5Evolution 1.02 Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove?
On Thu, 2 May 2002, Robin Turner wrote: Here in Turkey you normally get a computer installed with a pirate copy of Windows! Sir Robin ROFLMAO... ha! i hope they're listening...Robin, that was great! -- daRcmaTTeR -- Registered Linux User 182496 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
daRcmaTTeR wrote: On Thu, 2 May 2002, Robin Turner wrote: On Wednesday 01 May 2002 21:45, Myers, Dennis R NWO wrote: [snip] I too agree. If I buy a car and drive it till it is rust, I can remove engine transmission, seats and what ever else is salvageable and sell them individually. They were part of an integral package to begin with, but I still can sell off the pieces. Heck, I could sell of the pieces two days after I bought it brand new, and put some other engine in it. What makes Windows so special? M$ is as arrogant as any company ever in existance. My $.02 Not quite. Back in the 18th and 19th centuries there was the East India Company, which successfully colonised most of the Indian subcontinent, and was only absorbed into the British Empire after a mutiny of its native soldiers resutled in unspeakable carnage. Presumably the moral is that Microsoft should merge with the American government to create MSUSA. Sir Robin O, that was foul! just plain below the belt. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Well, someone who cannot post to the list because his ISP is out picking daisies and not supplying reverse resolution sent me a missive pointing out that no one buys Windows. It is a license one buys, nothing more. A license to use software according to the terms and proscriptions of the owner, one Microsoft Corporation. In other words they can put whatever into the license agreement and if you disagree, your alternative is not to use the license. You must agree to the terms to use the license. There is no legal recourse. The only hint of a possible recourse stems from the classification of the owner as a monopoly, and that classification will vanish as soon as it loses significant market share. And if there is reason for it to lose said market share, it will not likely recover said share any time soon or likely ever, a byproduct of the chicanery used to place the corporation where it is is that many people are disgusted but shrug and use the products out of a feeling of powerlessness. Civileme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Thu, 02 May 2002 21:36:36 -0800 civileme [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: daRcmaTTeR wrote: On Thu, 2 May 2002, Robin Turner wrote: On Wednesday 01 May 2002 21:45, Myers, Dennis R NWO wrote: [snip] I too agree. If I buy a car and drive it till it is rust, I can remove engine transmission, seats and what ever else is salvageable and sell them individually. They were part of an integral package to begin with, but I still can sell off the pieces. Heck, I could sell of the pieces two days after I bought it brand new, and put some other engine in it. What makes Windows so special? M$ is as arrogant as any company ever in existance. My $.02 Not quite. Back in the 18th and 19th centuries there was the East India Company, which successfully colonised most of the Indian subcontinent, and was only absorbed into the British Empire after a mutiny of its native soldiers resutled in unspeakable carnage. Presumably the moral is that Microsoft should merge with the American government to create MSUSA. Sir Robin O, that was foul! just plain below the belt. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Well, someone who cannot post to the list because his ISP is out picking daisies and not supplying reverse resolution sent me a missive pointing out that no one buys Windows. It is a license one buys, nothing more. hi Civileme. uhm.. i do not agree with that part, nor do i think a proper trial would, just like the case of that guy that god sued by Adobe for reselling. as long as the transaction has the form of a sell, it is a sell. period. if buying a cd of any kind of product implied that license, then the buyer should get to read a printed copy of the license or something, before he made the purchase. but if you just enter a shop, lay off some money and take a CD, then you just bought a CD, and the bytes contained in it do not matter until you put that CD in a reader device and read them. there's no such thing as when you buy that CD you are really buying a license. Namely put, as long as you do not put the CD into a CD reader, it technically is just a piece of plastic to you. that's how that Adobe trial ended anyway.. Damian Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove?
On Tue, 2002-04-30 at 23:13, Femme wrote: Complete story: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/25085.html Those links' content make me want to be sick. The more I hear about M$ and their tactics the more I desire their whole company to be dismantled properly Sold. sigh Femme I second that wholeheartedly. My hate and loathing for M$ is at an all time high. LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.8-26mdk Mandrake Linux 8.1 Enlightenment 0.16.5Evolution 1.02 Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove?
Femme wrote: On Tue, 30 Apr 2002 14:43:37 -0700 Sevatio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Check out this article. Linux Today: http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2002-04-30-018-26-PS-MS-LL Complete story: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/25085.html Those links' content make me want to be sick. The more I hear about M$ and their tactics the more I desire their whole company to be dismantled properly Sold. sigh Femme Well, they have x hundred billion per year in revenue and y hundred billion per year in expenses and they have never learned to control y because they haven't had to--they could always puff x. They could reduce or hide part of y by some adroit (and technically extralegal or legal) stock manipulations, but in reaity, they have a huge liability never reported on their statements in terms of employee stock options. Everyone wants Microsoft to succeed because their retirement funds probably are large shareholders of Microsoft stock. But look at the facts; the level of administrative effort increases (a sure sign of corporate narcissism), and the legal chicanery increases, not for more plunder but only for status quo, and now they are throwing money at problems, as with Unisys and wehavethewayout. It is handwriting on the wall for those who can read it. How long before the stockholders realize the index is overstated by a factor of 40 to 80 times? And will AOL follow them into the pit? But cash reserves are rather small, perhaps $30 billion tops, so when the market sours just a little, people won't know whats happening to Microsoft until it _has_ happened, and they will spend months thereafter in disbelief (and perhaps economic depression). I thought Microsoft was like IBM, could be hurt, could be convinced they _could_ lose, but couldn't be eliminated. It appears I was wrong. The IBM top execs were predacious salespeople in 1970-80, but they were not stock manipulators. Don't worry about the justice department. Don't worry about the legal manipulations or the laws they and others purchase. Just don't let the U S government bail them out, when their time comes. What they have done, not only with competition but with theft (of DRDOS) and stock deceptions, deserves no approbation. Remember Chrysler Corporation? The government should not be allowed to interfere in a free market, and certainly not to prop up a monopoly. Civileme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove?
On Tuesday 30 April 2002 11:13 pm, you wrote: On Tue, 30 Apr 2002 14:43:37 -0700 Sevatio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Check out this article. Linux Today: http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2002-04-30-018-26-PS-MS-LL Complete story: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/25085.html Those links' content make me want to be sick. The more I hear about M$ and their tactics the more I desire their whole company to be dismantled properly Sold. If anyone took the time to do some actual research -- even on a ms site, one would find that it is not illegal to remove a preinstalled version of windows. What ms is trying to prevent is the seperation of the preinstalled windows from the hardware for resale purposes. They also consider the software to be part of the original package, and the software must be transferred with the hardware. What ms considers to be illegal is the following: I buy a machine with preinstalled windows I uninstall windows and install a real os I sell/give the version of windows that came with the machine to someone else What ms wants is that when I sell or give away the machine, I must also hand the original version of windows to whoever gets the machine also. -- Alex http://www.qsl.net/kc2ivl Linux 2.4.18 #5 Sat Mar 9 21:44:22 EST 2002 i686 5:30am up 18:40, 2 users, load average: 2.36, 2.15, 1.85 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove?
On Tue, 30 Apr 2002, Femme wrote: On Tue, 30 Apr 2002 14:43:37 -0700 Sevatio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Check out this article. Linux Today: http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2002-04-30-018-26-PS-MS-LL Complete story: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/25085.html Those links' content make me want to be sick. The more I hear about M$ and their tactics the more I desire their whole company to be dismantled properly Sold. sigh Femme Femme, I smell what yer steppin. Sadly though there is a down side to that otherwise happy thought. All those poor drones that have been slaving away for MS all these years would be out of jobs. can you imagine what that would do to the tech workforce that is already over-burdened with unemployed experienced people? :( -- daRcmaTTeR -- Registered Linux User 182496 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove?
On Wed, 1 May 2002, A V Flinsch wrote: On Tuesday 30 April 2002 11:13 pm, you wrote: On Tue, 30 Apr 2002 14:43:37 -0700 Sevatio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Check out this article. Linux Today: http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2002-04-30-018-26-PS-MS-LL Complete story: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/25085.html Those links' content make me want to be sick. The more I hear about M$ and their tactics the more I desire their whole company to be dismantled properly Sold. If anyone took the time to do some actual research -- even on a ms site, one would find that it is not illegal to remove a preinstalled version of windows. What ms is trying to prevent is the seperation of the preinstalled windows from the hardware for resale purposes. They also consider the software to be part of the original package, and the software must be transferred with the hardware. What ms considers to be illegal is the following: I buy a machine with preinstalled windows I uninstall windows and install a real os I sell/give the version of windows that came with the machine to someone else What ms wants is that when I sell or give away the machine, I must also hand the original version of windows to whoever gets the machine also. in short they want to control something that, they should have no legal or otherwise, business controling. let them suck dirt! -- daRcmaTTeR -- Registered Linux User 182496 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove?
What ms considers to be illegal is the following: I buy a machine with preinstalled windows I uninstall windows and install a real os I sell/give the version of windows that came with the machine to someone else What ms wants is that when I sell or give away the machine, I must also hand the original version of windows to whoever gets the machine also. That makes more sense, but not much more. Winblows, even on pre-installed computers, costs something, and that cost is passed on to the final consumer. So despite its cost being buried in a sticker price, you pay for Winsux on a pre-installed computer. In my way of thinking, if I pay for it, I have the right to sell it-- even separately, if I choose. Miark Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
Title: RE: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Miark Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 1:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove? What ms considers to be illegal is the following: I buy a machine with preinstalled windows I uninstall windows and install a real os I sell/give the version of windows that came with the machine to someone else What ms wants is that when I sell or give away the machine, I must also hand the original version of windows to whoever gets the machine also. That makes more sense, but not much more. Winblows, even on pre-installed computers, costs something, and that cost is passed on to the final consumer. So despite its cost being buried in a sticker price, you pay for Winsux on a pre-installed computer. In my way of thinking, if I pay for it, I have the right to sell it-- even separately, if I choose. Miark I too agree. If I buy a car and drive it till it is rust, I can remove engine transmission, seats and what ever else is salvageable and sell them individually. They were part of an integral package to begin with, but I still can sell off the pieces. Heck, I could sell of the pieces two days after I bought it brand new, and put some other engine in it. What makes Windows so special? M$ is as arrogant as any company ever in existance. My $.02 Dennis M.
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove?
I agree with these too, Windows is to expensive for final consumers, More in countries like Colombia, or other third world countries. daRcmaTTeR wrote: On Wed, 1 May 2002, Miark wrote: What ms considers to be illegal is the following: I buy a machine with preinstalled windows I uninstall windows and install a real os I sell/give the version of windows that came with the machine to someone else What ms wants is that when I sell or give away the machine, I must also hand the original version of windows to whoever gets the machine also. That makes more sense, but not much more. Winblows, even on pre-installed computers, costs something, and that cost is passed on to the final consumer. So despite its cost being buried in a sticker price, you pay for Winsux on a pre-installed computer. In my way of thinking, if I pay for it, I have the right to sell it-- even separately, if I choose. Miark those are my thoughts exactly. -- daRcmaTTeR -- Registered Linux User 182496 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove?
On Wed, 1 May 2002, Miark wrote: What ms considers to be illegal is the following: I buy a machine with preinstalled windows I uninstall windows and install a real os I sell/give the version of windows that came with the machine to someone else What ms wants is that when I sell or give away the machine, I must also hand the original version of windows to whoever gets the machine also. That makes more sense, but not much more. Winblows, even on pre-installed computers, costs something, and that cost is passed on to the final consumer. So despite its cost being buried in a sticker price, you pay for Winsux on a pre-installed computer. In my way of thinking, if I pay for it, I have the right to sell it-- even separately, if I choose. Miark those are my thoughts exactly. -- daRcmaTTeR -- Registered Linux User 182496 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Thu, 2 May 2002 00:52:47 +0300 Robin Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 01 May 2002 21:45, Myers, Dennis R NWO wrote: [snip] I too agree. If I buy a car and drive it till it is rust, I can remove engine transmission, seats and what ever else is salvageable and sell them individually. They were part of an integral package to begin with, but I still can sell off the pieces. Heck, I could sell of the pieces two days after I bought it brand new, and put some other engine in it. What makes Windows so special? M$ is as arrogant as any company ever in existance. My $.02 Not quite. Back in the 18th and 19th centuries there was the East India Company, which successfully colonised most of the Indian subcontinent, and was only absorbed into the British Empire after a mutiny of its native soldiers resutled in unspeakable carnage. Presumably the moral is that Microsoft should merge with the American government to create MSUSA. Sir Robin not long ago i posted something like it's not hard to imagine US turning into an empire anymore .. i was talking about something like that.. was i THAT smoked? ;oP Damian Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
I am getting a 'naked' laptop soon - what a drama to get it! Dell have been quite good though. Does anyone have any stories to share regarding purchasing naked laptops? Ian McLeod Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Wednesday 01 May 2002 06:35 pm, you wrote: On Thu, 2 May 2002 00:52:47 +0300 Robin Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 01 May 2002 21:45, Myers, Dennis R NWO wrote: [snip] I too agree. If I buy a car and drive it till it is rust, I can remove engine transmission, seats and what ever else is salvageable and sell them individually. They were part of an integral package to begin with, but I still can sell off the pieces. Heck, I could sell of the pieces two days after I bought it brand new, and put some other engine in it. What makes Windows so special? M$ is as arrogant as any company ever in existance. My $.02 Not quite. Back in the 18th and 19th centuries there was the East India Company, which successfully colonised most of the Indian subcontinent, and was only absorbed into the British Empire after a mutiny of its native soldiers resutled in unspeakable carnage. Presumably the moral is that Microsoft should merge with the American government to create MSUSA. Sir Robin not long ago i posted something like it's not hard to imagine US turning into an empire anymore .. i was talking about something like that.. was i THAT smoked? ;oP Damian No, but the whole thing is scaring me. Serfdom was not a good thing and still isn't. I would never want to be a drone bee either. But it does seem like corporate America is buying independent America. Stay vigilante and write your congressmen. Maybe linux will save us from ourselves too. -- Dennis M. linux user #180842 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
On Wed, 1 May 2002 22:35:24 -0500 Dennis Myers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 01 May 2002 06:35 pm, you wrote: On Thu, 2 May 2002 00:52:47 +0300 Robin Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 01 May 2002 21:45, Myers, Dennis R NWO wrote: [snip] I too agree. If I buy a car and drive it till it is rust, I can remove engine transmission, seats and what ever else is salvageable and sell them individually. They were part of an integral package to begin with, but I still can sell off the pieces. Heck, I could sell of the pieces two days after I bought it brand new, and put some other engine in it. What makes Windows so special? M$ is as arrogant as any company ever in existance. My $.02 Not quite. Back in the 18th and 19th centuries there was the East India Company, which successfully colonised most of the Indian subcontinent, and was only absorbed into the British Empire after a mutiny of its native soldiers resutled in unspeakable carnage. Presumably the moral is that Microsoft should merge with the American government to create MSUSA. Sir Robin not long ago i posted something like it's not hard to imagine US turning into an empire anymore .. i was talking about something like that.. was i THAT smoked? ;oP Damian No, but the whole thing is scaring me. Serfdom was not a good thing and still isn't. I would never want to be a drone bee either. But it does seem like corporate America is buying independent America. Stay vigilante and write your congressmen. Maybe linux will save us from ourselves too. i do not live in the US. however i found this mailing list very informative on many other topics besides how to use linux, and i AM concerned about what's going on there. i can't believe, the incredibly small amount of people complaining about it, compared to what M$ is trying to do to you people! money sure is a powerful ally... maybe even more powerful than the force, may it be with you. Damian Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove ?
PERSONAL EMAIL ONLY I live in Australia - same rubbish here except Australia seems to be used as a non-critical (i.e. small) market testing ground for new ways of controlling customers. Ian McLeod Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove?
magnet wrote: Here is a thought. Why don't people uninstall Windows, then email the whole package in little files back to M$. That should screw up their mail-servers for a few months, and suggest that they should spend the next 3 or more years quietly working on a way to email their hardware back to them ;-) magnet *ROFL* and I thought I was High Bitch Goddess! You take the cake love! -- Femme Good Decisions You boss Made: We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that character from Peanuts. - Source: Dilbert Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove?
A V Flinsch wrote: On Tuesday 30 April 2002 11:13 pm, you wrote: On Tue, 30 Apr 2002 14:43:37 -0700 What ms considers to be illegal is the following: I buy a machine with preinstalled windows I uninstall windows and install a real os I sell/give the version of windows that came with the machine to someone else What ms wants is that when I sell or give away the machine, I must also hand the original version of windows to whoever gets the machine also. What M$ wants isn't fair still IMO. That means that you don't own that OS. Your example is *considering this is M$'s logic if it is true* flawed. Basically taht means my Pre-loaded OS isn't mine to sell, keep or give away with my hardware or w/out it. Thats absurd. Its like saying, I bought an apple I have no right to give it away w/out giving away the piemakings I had ready to use with it too. -- Femme Good Decisions You boss Made: We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that character from Peanuts. - Source: Dilbert Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] The Register: Preinstalled Windows Illegal to Remove?
daRcmaTTeR wrote: On Tue, 30 Apr 2002, Femme wrote: Femme, I smell what yer steppin. Sadly though there is a down side to that otherwise happy thought. All those poor drones that have been slaving away for MS all these years would be out of jobs. can you imagine what that would do to the tech workforce that is already over-burdened with unemployed experienced people? :( -- daRcmaTTeR -- Registered Linux User 182496 OK OK My wishful thinking is just that: Wishful. I thought of that too right after I'd posted. However I couldn't edit my post so I didn't bother addending it. I agree with you luv. However my point is M$ is for all intents purposes one of the largest monopolies out in the world. And their tactics *Not necessarily the company* need to be stopped. At some point the market can absorb only so much of their B$ tactics before it slumps, badly. If it hasn't already. -- Femme Good Decisions You boss Made: We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that character from Peanuts. - Source: Dilbert Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
