Re: CS>Measuring PPM

[Ode Coyote]

 10% of WHAT?

Is that +/- 10% of the max read range or +/- 10% of 1 PPM? [See the
problem?]

+/- 10% of 100% is like 10 PPM and that's a big chunk of 15 PPM.
 "Specs" can be tricky. [They don't always say what you think they do]

*Silver Range* 0.000 to 1.000 mg/L (ppm)   [But 15 PPM is WAY OVER that
range and +/- 10% has to do with the instrument, not the reagent]


 The Hanna meter calibration fluid has a temperature deviation chart on it,
but the meter specs say the meter is 'temperature compensated'
..so, why the chart?

It took a MONTH going round and round with Hanna Tech for them to say it's
the temperature of the METER that is compensated for...not the calibration
sample. [After telling me I was too stupid to ask questions and saying I
didn't see what I was seeing]
..and if the meter is colder or warmer than the sample, that dog hunts all
over the place as it warms or cools the sample.
 Holding the sachet in your hand while calibrating the meter screws it ALL
up as the reading climbs and climbs before your eyes.

Finally figuring all that out [on my own, thank you], their sachel proved
their big bottle of "reagent" was off by exactly 50%[around $30 worth]
and they wouldn't replace it.

I learned the hard/long way to make sure both the meter and the sample are
at the *same *temperature...and STAY that way while using the meter. [THEN
refer to the temperature deviation chart]
How easy is it to just SAY that in the first place ?   DUH
[But NOOOso, maybe even Hanna Tech didn't know that?]

HM Digital meters have a thermometer built in.

A really BIG Thermometer is a TherPOPiter? [;-)]

ode

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 10:20 AM Marshall  wrote:

> The unit measures between 0 and 1 ppm. I have to dilute it to get it  in
> that range.  Specifications give an accuracy of 10%, so 60% to 90% error is
> way out of line.
>
> Marshall
>
> On 7/8/2020 8:36 AM, Ode Coyote wrote:
>
> Titration is not NEARLY accurate enough to measure 15 PPM
>  Even an AA Spectrophotometer has great difficulty at low concentrations
> and 3 runs of the same sample averaged is the procedure
>
> ode
>
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 7:54 PM Marshall  wrote:
>
>> I am helping my son in law with his colloidal silver production.  But I
>> am running into something I don't understand.  He has been using a hanna
>> pure water meter to measure the ionic ppm.  He has been applying a 1.1
>> correction factor, that is brewing for a 14 uS, to get 15 ppm.
>>
>> He just ordered and received a hanna silver ion colorimeter and we have
>> been testing with it.  When we dissolve the CS silver in nitric acid,
>> the readings are way off, near zero.  I am going to contact Hanna on
>> that, I am assuming that either the nitrate ion, or the pH is messing it
>> up.
>>
>> But testing some week old CS, I am getting about 6 ppm on the
>> colorimeter, but 12 uS (or about 13 ppm) on the conductivity meter.  I
>> don't know which one is wrong.  Anyone have experience with the
>> colorimeter?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Marshall
>>
>>
>> --
>> The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
>>   Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org
>>
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>> List Owner: Mike Devour <mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: CS>Measuring PPM

[Ode Coyote]

I once got meter calibration fluid from Hanna that was off by 50%...they
refused to replace it or refund my money.
It took 'pulling teeth' to get them to even admit it was defective...as
compared to another sample from them using the same meter.

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 10:26 AM Marshall  wrote:

> There is no titration.  This is the instrument:
> https://www.hannainst.com/hi96737-silver-portable-photometer.html
>
> Marshall
>
> On 7/8/2020 8:36 AM, Ode Coyote wrote:
>
> Titration is not NEARLY accurate enough to measure 15 PPM
>  Even an AA Spectrophotometer has great difficulty at low concentrations
> and 3 runs of the same sample averaged is the procedure
>
> ode
>
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 7:54 PM Marshall  wrote:
>
>> I am helping my son in law with his colloidal silver production.  But I
>> am running into something I don't understand.  He has been using a hanna
>> pure water meter to measure the ionic ppm.  He has been applying a 1.1
>> correction factor, that is brewing for a 14 uS, to get 15 ppm.
>>
>> He just ordered and received a hanna silver ion colorimeter and we have
>> been testing with it.  When we dissolve the CS silver in nitric acid,
>> the readings are way off, near zero.  I am going to contact Hanna on
>> that, I am assuming that either the nitrate ion, or the pH is messing it
>> up.
>>
>> But testing some week old CS, I am getting about 6 ppm on the
>> colorimeter, but 12 uS (or about 13 ppm) on the conductivity meter.  I
>> don't know which one is wrong.  Anyone have experience with the
>> colorimeter?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Marshall
>>
>>
>> --
>> The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
>>   Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org
>>
>> Unsubscribe:
>>   <mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe>
>> Archives:
>>   http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html
>>
>> Off-Topic discussions: <mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com>
>> List Owner: Mike Devour <mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: CS>Measuring PPM

[Marshall]

There is no titration.  This is the instrument: 
https://www.hannainst.com/hi96737-silver-portable-photometer.html


Marshall

On 7/8/2020 8:36 AM, Ode Coyote wrote:

Titration is not NEARLY accurate enough to measure 15 PPM
 Even an AA Spectrophotometer has great difficulty at low 
concentrations and 3 runs of the same sample averaged is the procedure


ode

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 7:54 PM Marshall <mailto:mdud...@king-cart.com>> wrote:


I am helping my son in law with his colloidal silver production. 
But I

am running into something I don't understand.  He has been using a
hanna
pure water meter to measure the ionic ppm.  He has been applying a
1.1
correction factor, that is brewing for a 14 uS, to get 15 ppm.

He just ordered and received a hanna silver ion colorimeter and we
have
been testing with it.  When we dissolve the CS silver in nitric acid,
the readings are way off, near zero.  I am going to contact Hanna on
that, I am assuming that either the nitrate ion, or the pH is
messing it up.

But testing some week old CS, I am getting about 6 ppm on the
colorimeter, but 12 uS (or about 13 ppm) on the conductivity
meter.  I
don't know which one is wrong.  Anyone have experience with the
colorimeter?

Thanks,

Marshall


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Re: CS>Measuring PPM

[Marshall]

The unit measures between 0 and 1 ppm. I have to dilute it to get it  in 
that range.  Specifications give an accuracy of 10%, so 60% to 90% error 
is way out of line.


Marshall

On 7/8/2020 8:36 AM, Ode Coyote wrote:

Titration is not NEARLY accurate enough to measure 15 PPM
 Even an AA Spectrophotometer has great difficulty at low 
concentrations and 3 runs of the same sample averaged is the procedure


ode

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 7:54 PM Marshall <mailto:mdud...@king-cart.com>> wrote:


I am helping my son in law with his colloidal silver production. 
But I

am running into something I don't understand.  He has been using a
hanna
pure water meter to measure the ionic ppm.  He has been applying a
1.1
correction factor, that is brewing for a 14 uS, to get 15 ppm.

He just ordered and received a hanna silver ion colorimeter and we
have
been testing with it.  When we dissolve the CS silver in nitric acid,
the readings are way off, near zero.  I am going to contact Hanna on
that, I am assuming that either the nitrate ion, or the pH is
messing it up.

But testing some week old CS, I am getting about 6 ppm on the
colorimeter, but 12 uS (or about 13 ppm) on the conductivity
meter.  I
don't know which one is wrong.  Anyone have experience with the
colorimeter?

Thanks,

Marshall


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<mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com>>

Re: CS>Measuring PPM

[Ode Coyote]

Titration is not NEARLY accurate enough to measure 15 PPM
 Even an AA Spectrophotometer has great difficulty at low concentrations
and 3 runs of the same sample averaged is the procedure

ode

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 7:54 PM Marshall  wrote:

> I am helping my son in law with his colloidal silver production.  But I
> am running into something I don't understand.  He has been using a hanna
> pure water meter to measure the ionic ppm.  He has been applying a 1.1
> correction factor, that is brewing for a 14 uS, to get 15 ppm.
>
> He just ordered and received a hanna silver ion colorimeter and we have
> been testing with it.  When we dissolve the CS silver in nitric acid,
> the readings are way off, near zero.  I am going to contact Hanna on
> that, I am assuming that either the nitrate ion, or the pH is messing it
> up.
>
> But testing some week old CS, I am getting about 6 ppm on the
> colorimeter, but 12 uS (or about 13 ppm) on the conductivity meter.  I
> don't know which one is wrong.  Anyone have experience with the
> colorimeter?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Marshall
>
>
> --
> The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
>   Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org
>
> Unsubscribe:
>   <mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe>
> Archives:
>   http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html
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> Off-Topic discussions: <mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com>
> List Owner: Mike Devour <mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com>
>
>
>

CS>Measuring PPM

[Marshall]

I am helping my son in law with his colloidal silver production.  But I 
am running into something I don't understand.  He has been using a hanna 
pure water meter to measure the ionic ppm.  He has been applying a 1.1 
correction factor, that is brewing for a 14 uS, to get 15 ppm.


He just ordered and received a hanna silver ion colorimeter and we have 
been testing with it.  When we dissolve the CS silver in nitric acid, 
the readings are way off, near zero.  I am going to contact Hanna on 
that, I am assuming that either the nitrate ion, or the pH is messing it up.


But testing some week old CS, I am getting about 6 ppm on the 
colorimeter, but 12 uS (or about 13 ppm) on the conductivity meter.  I 
don't know which one is wrong.  Anyone have experience with the colorimeter?


Thanks,

Marshall


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 Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org

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 <mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: CS>Silver Puppy "ppm" numbers

[Dee]

Brilliant as always OdeDee

Sent from my iPad

> On 12 Dec 2015, at 11:55, Ode Coyote  wrote:
> 
> Once you hit the solubility limits of silver ions in water at around 13 PPM, 
> you go into a supersaturation area where environmental variables... trace 
> impurities, temperature etc. play a greater and greater role in 'kicking' off 
> a non conductive particle formation cascade reaction.
> 'What' is in the water often counts more than how much..and no way to know 
> what, what is.
>  The variables connected with particle formation in a super saturated 
> solution make meters more and more fraught with error the further past the 
> saturation point you go because meters don't register anything BUT ionic 
> content.
> 
> A meter reading past around 15 uS just doesn't mean very much.
> 
> So, up to around 10-12 uS a meter says something fairly reliable but getting 
> there with current 'ramp up to control' on an exponential curve, starting who 
> knows where, making time a HUGE variable with the slightest difference in 
> initial water conductivity...well...using a clock just doesn't work.
> But once the current control circuits stabilizes the current, ion emission 
> rate is predictably linear using Faraday calculations and a clock.
> 
> You know how much silver entered the water..but what Faraday doesn't say is 
> how much *stayed* in the water.
> 
> If there is very little on the bottom, most of it did.
> 
> But
> The stronger you make it, the more densely packed uncharged particles are and 
> the more likely they are to encounter each other and agglomerate into larger 
> particles, forming crystals around a seed nucleus and getting big enough to 
> settle out.
> 
> Ode
> 
>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 1:59 PM, Jerry Durand  
>> wrote:
>> I suspect the main benefit of the high ppm solutions is to the bank account 
>> of the seller.  I also suspect they use pretty high current or maybe 
>> sputtering to get that much silver in there.
>> 
>> Or, they just lie about the number.
>> 
>> 
>> Out of curiosity, I ran a pint batch with the Silver Puppy set to 10 ticks 
>> on the manual mode.  I started with distilled water (0-1 uS by my meter) and 
>> the next day when it was done it only read 14 uS.  I left it sit for a few 
>> days and then it read 12 uS.   Seems awfully low for running that long. 
>> 
>> A normal auto run on the Silver Puppy gives a reading of 10 uS.
>> 
>>> On 12/11/2015 03:32 AM, Ode Coyote wrote:
>>> But since the physical properties of silver and water limit how much silver 
>>> will STAY in the water [solubility limits], relatively all of that 42,000 
>>> will be sludge on the bottom as silver hydroxide and silver oxidewasted.
>>> Some suspend the garbage in the water by making the water thicker, like old 
>>> used dirty motor oil can hold a lot of dirt
>>> ...MSP  Mild Silver Protein can be 50 or even 1000+ PPM,  big chunks of 
>>> silver suspended in jello.
>>> Lots of silver, little benefit.
>>> 
>>> Ode
>> 
>> -- 
>> Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc.  www.interstellar.com
>> tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886
>> 
> 

CS>Silverpuppy ppm numbers

[Debra & David]

As long as that right hand light on your 'puppy is ON, then you are 
adding silver to the water.


Ten extra hours in a pint adds about 80 ppm. Plus the 12 ppm you 
initially added in auto mode gives a total of about 92ppm.
But thats 92 ppm of TOTAL silver. (i.e Ions AND particles). But the 
meter can only read the ions, because only they are conductive. There 
are occasional exceptions but usually maximum ionic content in a jar 
will hover around 10 to 20 uS and reduce over time as the ions combine 
with non -conductive particles and 'disappear' off the meter.  You still 
have 92 ppm in the jar but the meter cant read it.


Meters don't measure silver, they just measure the conductivity of the 
water. The conductivity is roughly equivalent to the amount of silver 
ions you have in the water.


David



Subject:
Re: CS>Silver Puppy "ppm" numbers
From:
Jerry Durand 
Date:
12/12/2015 5:29 AM

To:
silver-list@eskimo.com



Out of curiosity, I ran a pint batch with the Silver Puppy set to 10 
ticks on the manual mode.  I started with distilled water (0-1 uS by my 
meter) and the next day when it was done it only read 14 uS.  I left it 
sit for a few days and then it read 12 uS.   Seems awfully low for 
running that long.


A normal auto run on the Silver Puppy gives a reading of 10 uS.

Re: CS>Silver Puppy "ppm" numbers

[Theresa]

I'm using the generator from the Silver Lungs sight. Does anyone have an 
opinion about the quality of silver it makes?  
I start w distilled water with a 0 particle reading and run a batch on "long" 
cycle (2 hrs?) and get an 8-10
Reading when auto timed out. 
Thanks
Theresa

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 12, 2015, at 5:55 AM, Ode Coyote  wrote:
> 
> Once you hit the solubility limits of silver ions in water at around 13 PPM, 
> you go into a supersaturation area where environmental variables... trace 
> impurities, temperature etc. play a greater and greater role in 'kicking' off 
> a non conductive particle formation cascade reaction.
> 'What' is in the water often counts more than how much..and no way to know 
> what, what is.
>  The variables connected with particle formation in a super saturated 
> solution make meters more and more fraught with error the further past the 
> saturation point you go because meters don't register anything BUT ionic 
> content.
> 
> A meter reading past around 15 uS just doesn't mean very much.
> 
> So, up to around 10-12 uS a meter says something fairly reliable but getting 
> there with current 'ramp up to control' on an exponential curve, starting who 
> knows where, making time a HUGE variable with the slightest difference in 
> initial water conductivity...well...using a clock just doesn't work.
> But once the current control circuits stabilizes the current, ion emission 
> rate is predictably linear using Faraday calculations and a clock.
> 
> You know how much silver entered the water..but what Faraday doesn't say is 
> how much *stayed* in the water.
> 
> If there is very little on the bottom, most of it did.
> 
> But
> The stronger you make it, the more densely packed uncharged particles are and 
> the more likely they are to encounter each other and agglomerate into larger 
> particles, forming crystals around a seed nucleus and getting big enough to 
> settle out.
> 
> Ode
> 
>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 1:59 PM, Jerry Durand  
>> wrote:
>> I suspect the main benefit of the high ppm solutions is to the bank account 
>> of the seller.  I also suspect they use pretty high current or maybe 
>> sputtering to get that much   silver in there.
>> 
>> Or, they just lie about the number.
>> 
>> 
>> Out of curiosity, I ran a pint batch with the Silver Puppy set to 10 ticks 
>> on the manual mode.  I started with distilled water (0-1 uS by my meter) and 
>> the next day when it was done it only read 14 uS.  I left it sit for a few 
>> days and then it read 12 uS.   Seems awfully low for running that long. 
>> 
>> A normal auto run on the Silver Puppy gives a reading of 10 uS.
>> 
>>> On 12/11/2015 03:32 AM, Ode Coyote wrote:
>>> But since the physical properties of silver and water limit how much silver 
>>> will STAY in the water [solubility limits], relatively all of that 42,000 
>>> will be sludge on the bottom as silver hydroxide and silver oxidewasted.
>>> Some suspend the garbage in the water by making the water thicker, like old 
>>> used dirty motor oil can hold a lot of dirt
>>> ...MSP  Mild Silver Protein can be 50 or even 1000+ PPM,  big chunks of 
>>> silver suspended in jello.
>>> Lots of silver, little benefit.
>>> 
>>> Ode
>>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc.  www.interstellar.com
>> tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886
>> 
> 

Re: CS>Silver Puppy "ppm" numbers

[Ode Coyote]

Once you hit the solubility limits of silver ions in water at around 13
PPM, you go into a supersaturation area where environmental variables...
trace impurities, temperature etc. play a greater and greater role in
'kicking' off a non conductive particle formation cascade reaction.
'What' is in the water often counts more than how much..and no way to know
what, what is.
 The variables connected with particle formation in a super saturated
solution make meters more and more fraught with error the further past the
saturation point you go because meters don't register anything BUT ionic
content.

A meter reading past around 15 uS just doesn't mean very much.

So, up to around 10-12 uS a meter says something fairly reliable but
getting there with current 'ramp up to control' on an exponential curve,
starting who knows where, making time a HUGE variable with the slightest
difference in initial water conductivity...well...using a clock just
doesn't work.
But once the current control circuits stabilizes the current, ion emission
rate is predictably linear using Faraday calculations and a clock.

You know how much silver entered the water..but what Faraday doesn't say is
how much *stayed* in the water.

If there is very little on the bottom, most of it did.

But
The stronger you make it, the more densely packed uncharged particles are
and the more likely they are to encounter each other and agglomerate into
larger particles, forming crystals around a seed nucleus and getting big
enough to settle out.

Ode

On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 1:59 PM, Jerry Durand 
wrote:

> I suspect the main benefit of the high ppm solutions is to the bank
> account of the seller.  I also suspect they use pretty high current or
> maybe sputtering to get that much silver in there.
>
> Or, they just lie about the number.
>
>
> Out of curiosity, I ran a pint batch with the Silver Puppy set to 10 ticks
> on the manual mode.  I started with distilled water (0-1 uS by my meter)
> and the next day when it was done it only read 14 uS.  I left it sit for a
> few days and then it read 12 uS.   Seems awfully low for running that long.
>
> A normal auto run on the Silver Puppy gives a reading of 10 uS.
>
> On 12/11/2015 03:32 AM, Ode Coyote wrote:
>
> But since the physical properties of silver and water limit how much
> silver will STAY in the water [solubility limits], relatively all of that
> 42,000 will be sludge on the bottom as silver hydroxide and silver
> oxidewasted.
> Some suspend the garbage in the water by making the water thicker, like
> old used dirty motor oil can hold a lot of dirt
> ...MSP  Mild Silver Protein can be 50 or even 1000+ PPM,  big chunks of
> silver suspended in jello.
> Lots of silver, little benefit.
>
> Ode
>
>
> --
> Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc.  www.interstellar.com
> tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886
>
>

Re: CS>Silver Puppy "ppm" numbers

[Jerry Durand]

I suspect the main benefit of the high ppm solutions is to the bank
account of the seller.  I also suspect they use pretty high current or
maybe sputtering to get that much silver in there.

Or, they just lie about the number.


Out of curiosity, I ran a pint batch with the Silver Puppy set to 10
ticks on the manual mode.  I started with distilled water (0-1 uS by my
meter) and the next day when it was done it only read 14 uS.  I left it
sit for a few days and then it read 12 uS.   Seems awfully low for
running that long.

A normal auto run on the Silver Puppy gives a reading of 10 uS.

On 12/11/2015 03:32 AM, Ode Coyote wrote:
> But since the physical properties of silver and water limit how much
> silver will STAY in the water [solubility limits], relatively all of
> that 42,000 will be sludge on the bottom as silver hydroxide and
> silver oxidewasted.
> Some suspend the garbage in the water by making the water thicker,
> like old used dirty motor oil can hold a lot of dirt
> ...MSP  Mild Silver Protein can be 50 or even 1000+ PPM,  big chunks
> of silver suspended in jello.
> Lots of silver, little benefit.
>
> Ode
>

-- 
Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc.  www.interstellar.com
tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886

Re: CS>Silver Puppy "ppm" numbers

[Ode Coyote]

But since the physical properties of silver and water limit how much silver
will STAY in the water [solubility limits], relatively all of that 42,000
will be sludge on the bottom as silver hydroxide and silver oxidewasted.
Some suspend the garbage in the water by making the water thicker, like old
used dirty motor oil can hold a lot of dirt
...MSP  Mild Silver Protein can be 50 or even 1000+ PPM,  big chunks of
silver suspended in jello.
Lots of silver, little benefit.

Ode

On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 3:31 AM, Debra & David  wrote:

> A Faraday calculation of volume/current/time provides the answer.
>
> The 'puppy has controlled current (about 1 mA at the electrodes) so a
> Faraday calculation using current, volume and time can provide an answer.
>
> In a pint each EXTRA hour adds about 8ppm. In a quart its about 4 ppm per
> hour.
>
> But note that the water has to be conductive. (i.e. if you are using
> distilled water you have to have already run the 'puppy in auto mode).
>
> In a pint, 42,000 ppm would take about 5250 hours.
>
> David
>
>
>
> On 11/12/2015 6:41 PM, silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com wrote:
>
> Subject:
> CS>Silver Puppy "ppm" numbers
> From:
> Jerry Durand  
> Date:
> 10/12/2015 6:28 AM
> To:
> "silver-list@eskimo.com"  
> 
> I had someone ask me for the "ppm" number if I run the Silver Puppy way
> into overtime like 12 hours or so.  I know that almost all people are
> reading the ppm number off a tds meter that's calibrated for table salt,
> getting people to understand calibration is a losing battle.
>
> I just picked up a batch that's been sitting around for a while and it
> reads 14 uSeimens, so for that batch what should I tell them?
>
> Or do I just do like the eBay marketers and make up a number?  "It's 42000
> ppm, it's REALLY good stuff!"  :)
>
> --
> Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc.  www.interstellar.com
> tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886
>
>
>

CS>Silver Puppy "ppm" numbers

[Debra & David]

A Faraday calculation of volume/current/time provides the answer.

The 'puppy has controlled current (about 1 mA at the electrodes) so a 
Faraday calculation using current, volume and time can provide an answer.


In a pint each EXTRA hour adds about 8ppm. In a quart its about 4 ppm 
per hour.


But note that the water has to be conductive. (i.e. if you are using 
distilled water you have to have already run the 'puppy in auto mode).


In a pint, 42,000 ppm would take about 5250 hours.

David



On 11/12/2015 6:41 PM, silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com wrote:

Subject:
CS>Silver Puppy "ppm" numbers
From:
Jerry Durand 
Date:
10/12/2015 6:28 AM

To:
"silver-list@eskimo.com" 


I had someone ask me for the "ppm" number if I run the Silver Puppy 
way into overtime like 12 hours or so. I know that almost all people 
are reading the ppm number off a tds meter that's calibrated for table 
salt, getting people to understand calibration is a losing battle.


I just picked up a batch that's been sitting around for a while and it 
reads 14 uSeimens, so for that batch what should I tell them?


Or do I just do like the eBay marketers and make up a number? "It's 
42000 ppm, it's REALLY good stuff!"  :)


--
Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc.www.interstellar.com
tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886

Re: CS>Silver Puppy "ppm" numbers

[Asif Nathekar]

that's a question everyone struggles with

however I have come to an understanding after much deliberating and research...

For CS I treat the us figure as the actual PPM.

So if you are getting 14us, I would take that as 14ppm.

this would show on your meter as 7ppm. 

I do brew the CS to around 30us sometimes, but to be honest it hits a wall 
around there, and I do not think its the best stuff. I would keep it to 
around 12-20us (6-10 ppm).

Regards.

From: Jerry Durand 
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 7:58 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
Subject: CS>Silver Puppy "ppm" numbers

I had someone ask me for the "ppm" number if I run the Silver Puppy way into 
overtime like 12 hours or so.  I know that almost all people are reading the 
ppm number off a tds meter that's calibrated for table salt, getting people to 
understand calibration is a losing battle.

I just picked up a batch that's been sitting around for a while and it reads 14 
uSeimens, so for that batch what should I tell them?  

Or do I just do like the eBay marketers and make up a number?  "It's 42000 ppm, 
it's REALLY good stuff!"  :)


-- 
Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc.  www.interstellar.com
tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886

Re: CS>Silver Puppy "ppm" numbers

[Lola Harris]

Hi... have been a member for a few years now and was purchasing my cs from a 
member who sold cs thru his business website.  I am under the impression (from 
another member's posting)and the fact that I can't access his website any 
longer that this member isn't selling his cs anylonger?  I am sure you 
long-time members know who I am referring to.  His product is wonderfuland I am 
running low.  Anybody else selling their cs?  If so, you can private message me 
if you like.Thanks, Lola ps.  I used to buy commercial cs products before 
finding this site and this wonderful man.  Hiscs has totally spoiled me.  His 
product is clear with no 'taste' and is so superior to otc products.   
- Original Message -
From: Jerry Durand 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Wed, 09 Dec 2015 14:58:46 -0500 (EST)
Subject: CS>Silver Puppy "ppm" numbers

I had someone ask me for the "ppm" number if I
 run the Silver Puppy way into overtime like 12 hours or so.  I
 know that almost all people are reading the ppm number off a tds
 meter that's calibrated for table salt, getting people to
 understand calibration is a losing battle.


 I just picked up a batch that's been sitting around for a while
 and it reads 14 uSeimens, so for that batch what should I tell
 them?  


 Or do I just do like the eBay marketers and make up a number? 
 "It's 42000 ppm, it's REALLY good stuff!"  :)

-- 
Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc.  www.interstellar.com
tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886

CS>Silver Puppy "ppm" numbers

[Jerry Durand]

I had someone ask me for the "ppm" number if I run the Silver Puppy way
into overtime like 12 hours or so.  I know that almost all people are
reading the ppm number off a tds meter that's calibrated for table salt,
getting people to understand calibration is a losing battle.

I just picked up a batch that's been sitting around for a while and it
reads 14 uSeimens, so for that batch what should I tell them? 

Or do I just do like the eBay marketers and make up a number?  "It's
42000 ppm, it's REALLY good stuff!"  :)

-- 
Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc.  www.interstellar.com
tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886

Re: CS>Jasons comments (and high ppm silver).

[Jason]

Hi David:

Yes, I remember Mike's obsession very well. :o)

There are many ways to accomplish this, including using something like 
citric acid (acid) or something like baking soda (base).


Silver citrate is ionic, and it is fully dissolved in the water.

As far as the case of the missing 100 uS silver, that's interesting. 
You may have to use another method for determining the total PPM in 
solution to see if the silver is actually there; TEM would work ok... 
you can also compare the Faraday equation results to determine if any of 
the silver is plating out.


As far as colloidal particles too small for visibility using a laser, 
I'd be interested in thinking about that.  I'm not sure there are 
colloidal particles small enough to not scatter laser light, at least, 
not in the "normal state" sense.  If you get into the shadow realm of 
ORMES who knows.


A Malvern Nano Zetasizer would no doubt pick up on those particles if 
they do exist.


~Jason




On 2/17/2015 4:59 PM, Debra & David wrote:

Hi Jason.

I'm aware of the pH issue but I'm using low voltage and low current. (1mA)

To make highly ionic CS the emphasis in the past has always been to use
pure distilled water. (Mike Monnet was almost obsessed by it and
believed the problem could be solved by ensuring everything was ultra,
ultra clean. He never succeeded as far as I know).

The problem is that CS in pure water has a saturation point of about 24
ppm. Try as we might, nothing is going to change that. Its a
chemical/physical barrier thats impossible to breach. The quest to make
highly ionic CS in pure water is probably a waste of time.

I believe the answer is to find a conductive liquid medium that
facilitates the electrical dissolution of silver but has a much higher
saturation point so it does not force the silver ions to combine into
particles.

I'm experimenting with something at the moment. Dissolving 100 ppm of
silver into this common liquid raised the conductivity 100uS (exactly as
predicted by a Faraday calc). Dissolving a further 100 ppm into the
batch did not raise the uS by another 100 but it still didnt create a TE
either. So where did the silver go?

100ppm raised the uS by 100 as predicted. (My assumption is that its 100
ppm of ionic CS). The other 100ppm 'dissappeared'. One thought I have is
that it made particles so small they do not show in the frequency of a
red laser.

Comments welcome.


David




Hi David:

That is interesting.  One thing to check:  pH.

I spoke with an associate who claimed to be making high PPM silver
solutions, but I strongly suspect that it was silver nitrate produced
from using HVAC, pulling nitrogen from the air into the distilled water.

If you can start with a neutral pH distilled water, and end with close
to a neutral distilled water, that would be very fascinating to me.

Interesting stuff!

~Jason


On 2/16/2015 7:31 PM, Debra & David wrote:
Jason said  "I can't remember that last time I heard an original idea on
the silverlist... oh wait, I can!  It was from David, and the last
before that was probably a rehash on some ideas pioneered by Brooks
Bradley. ...  I always get the same response.  Not even anyone curious
about how I personally tested this theory or how they can test to see
the difference in quality.  Just three people or so saying they have no
need to clean the electrodes. "


Hello Jason

I now how you feel but I'm guilty of not responding myself. Its too hard
and I wonder anyone will read it anyway.

By the way, I've recently been making high ppm CS.  The total ppm is 200
as calculated by (Herx's) Faraday equation. The ionic strength is 100
(measurable with a uS meter) and the other 100 ppm is colloidal but the
particles are so small they do not show in a red laser beam. Its crystal
clear and very interesting! I'm laughing to myself that this is Frank
Key's Mesosilver and Mike Monnet's high ppm ionic CS all in one! Older
members would laugh of the irony of that.


David


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CS>Jasons comments (and high ppm silver).

[Debra & David]

Hi Jason.

I'm aware of the pH issue but I'm using low voltage and low current. (1mA)

To make highly ionic CS the emphasis in the past has always been to use 
pure distilled water. (Mike Monnet was almost obsessed by it and 
believed the problem could be solved by ensuring everything was ultra, 
ultra clean. He never succeeded as far as I know).


The problem is that CS in pure water has a saturation point of about 24 
ppm. Try as we might, nothing is going to change that. Its a 
chemical/physical barrier thats impossible to breach. The quest to make 
highly ionic CS in pure water is probably a waste of time.


I believe the answer is to find a conductive liquid medium that 
facilitates the electrical dissolution of silver but has a much higher 
saturation point so it does not force the silver ions to combine into 
particles.


I'm experimenting with something at the moment. Dissolving 100 ppm of 
silver into this common liquid raised the conductivity 100uS (exactly as 
predicted by a Faraday calc). Dissolving a further 100 ppm into the 
batch did not raise the uS by another 100 but it still didnt create a TE 
either. So where did the silver go?


100ppm raised the uS by 100 as predicted. (My assumption is that its 100 
ppm of ionic CS). The other 100ppm 'dissappeared'. One thought I have is 
that it made particles so small they do not show in the frequency of a 
red laser.


Comments welcome.


David




Hi David:

That is interesting.  One thing to check:  pH.

I spoke with an associate who claimed to be making high PPM silver 
solutions, but I strongly suspect that it was silver nitrate produced 
from using HVAC, pulling nitrogen from the air into the distilled water.


If you can start with a neutral pH distilled water, and end with close 
to a neutral distilled water, that would be very fascinating to me.


Interesting stuff!

~Jason


On 2/16/2015 7:31 PM, Debra & David wrote:
Jason said  "I can't remember that last time I heard an original idea on
the silverlist... oh wait, I can!  It was from David, and the last
before that was probably a rehash on some ideas pioneered by Brooks
Bradley. ...  I always get the same response.  Not even anyone curious
about how I personally tested this theory or how they can test to see
the difference in quality.  Just three people or so saying they have no
need to clean the electrodes. "


Hello Jason

I now how you feel but I'm guilty of not responding myself. Its too hard
and I wonder anyone will read it anyway.

By the way, I've recently been making high ppm CS.  The total ppm is 200
as calculated by (Herx's) Faraday equation. The ionic strength is 100
(measurable with a uS meter) and the other 100 ppm is colloidal but the
particles are so small they do not show in a red laser beam. Its crystal
clear and very interesting! I'm laughing to myself that this is Frank
Key's Mesosilver and Mike Monnet's high ppm ionic CS all in one! Older
members would laugh of the irony of that.


David


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Re: CS>CS strength and PPM.

[Ode Coyote]

 Yea, right on in here.

Ode



At 11:29 AM 11/14/2013 -0800, you wrote:

Ode,
To the eye ?


From: Ode Coyote 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 8:54 AM
Subject: Re: CS>CS strength and PPM.



  Add about 10% DMSO [90% CS]  and apply directly several times a day. [??]

Ode



At 07:30 AM 11/14/2013 -0800, you wrote:

Ode,
I have a question
Three days ago, my daughter developed shingles in the eye and side of the 
head.  She tried lots of c/s but it is not working and neither is it 
working on the rash on the face.  She never had chicken pox as a kid but 
where she works she is under EXTREME stress, I feel this is the cause of 
the shingles.  she is working even though she is contagous, I do not know 
what to do. How can she get the c/s to work?

I had shingles and it worked great on me.
Mary



From: Ode Coyote 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 5:59 AM
Subject: Re: CS>CS strength and PPM.



  Yes
Ode



At 06:46 AM 11/14/2013 -0500, you wrote:
I have a question about CS strength and PPM.  If you have a 10 PPM CS 
and mix and equal amount of plain water with it, does it turn it into 5 PPM CS?



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Re: CS>CS strength and PPM.

[JD]

Thanks


  Yes
Ode



At 06:46 AM 11/14/2013 -0500, you wrote:
> I have a question about CS strength and PPM.  If you have a 10 PPM 
CS and mix and equal amount of plain water with it, does it turn it 
into 5 PPM CS?

>



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Re: CS>CS strength and PPM.

[mborgert]

Thank you for replying,
She went to a eye surgeon that is when she found out about shingles but the doc 
gave her pills and told her to come back in a week.  I am worried because my 
daughter thinks it is now in the brain.
 I stated I had shingles but c/s got rid of it for me on the face,but it took 6 
months of taking c/s internally to rid myself of it.  When ever my immune 
system is not right the first indication is I get one blister under the ear, 
where it started in the beginning, use c/s and it goes away but not before I 
try to figure out why my body is out of wack.
Mary





 From: Lena Guyot 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 7:56 AM
Subject: Re: CS>CS strength and PPM.
 


I've had shingles, and treated it myself, but would definitely go to the doc if 
it's in the eyes, as it can be very serious, even vision-threatening there! 
Meanwhile, L-Lysine is good for shingles. Also avoid legumes, because even 
though they have lots of L-lysine, they also have L-argenine, which shingles 
loves.
I now routinely take 1000mg of L-Lysine daily. Shingles can come back and once 
you've had it, you know you NEVER want a repeat.

Good luck!
Be well,
Léna

On Nov 14, 2013, at 10:30 AM, mborg...@att.net wrote:

Ode,
>I have a question
>Three days ago, my daughter developed shingles in the eye and side of the 
>head.  She tried lots of c/s but it is not working and neither is it working 
>on the rash on the face.  She never had chicken pox as a kid but where she 
>works she is under EXTREME stress, I feel this is the cause of the shingles.  
>she is working even though she is contagous, I do not know what to do. How can 
>she get the c/s to work?
>I had shingles and it worked great on me.
>Mary
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Ode Coyote 
>To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
>Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 5:59 AM
>Subject: Re: CS>CS strength and PPM.
> 
>
>
>
>
>  Yes
>Ode
>
>
>
>At 06:46 AM 11/14/2013 -0500, you wrote:
>
>I have a question about CS strength
and PPM.  If you have a 10 PPM CS and mix and equal amount of plain
water with it, does it turn it into 5 PPM CS?
>>
>>
>>--
>>The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal
Silver.
>> Rules and Instructions:
http://www.silverlist.org/
>>
>>Unsubscribe:
>> <mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe>
>>Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html
>>
>>Off-Topic discussions:
<mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com>
>>List Owner: Mike Devour
<mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: CS>CS strength and PPM.

[mborgert]

Ode,
To the eye ?




 From: Ode Coyote 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 8:54 AM
Subject: Re: CS>CS strength and PPM.
 




  Add about 10% DMSO [90% CS]  and apply directly several times
a day. [??]

Ode



At 07:30 AM 11/14/2013 -0800, you wrote:

Ode,
>I have a question
>Three days ago, my daughter developed shingles in the eye and side of the
head.  She tried lots of c/s but it is not working and neither is it
working on the rash on the face.  She never had chicken pox as a kid
but where she works she is under EXTREME stress, I feel this is the cause
of the shingles.  she is working even though she is contagous, I do
not know what to do. How can she get the c/s to work?
>I had shingles and it worked great on me.
>Mary
>
>
>
>From: Ode Coyote

>To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
>Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 5:59 AM
>Subject: Re: CS>CS strength and PPM.
>
>
>
>  Yes
>Ode
>
>
>
>At 06:46 AM 11/14/2013 -0500, you wrote:
>
>I have a question about CS strength
and PPM.  If you have a 10 PPM CS and mix and equal amount of plain
water with it, does it turn it into 5 PPM CS?
>>
>>
>>--
>>The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal
Silver.
>> Rules and Instructions:
http://www.silverlist.org/
>>
>>Unsubscribe:
>> <mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe>
>>Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html
>>
>>Off-Topic discussions:
<mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com>
>>List Owner: Mike Devour
<mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com>
>>
>>
>

Re: CS>CS strength and PPM.

[Ode Coyote]

  Add about 10% DMSO [90% CS]  and apply directly several times a day. [??]

Ode



At 07:30 AM 11/14/2013 -0800, you wrote:

Ode,
I have a question
Three days ago, my daughter developed shingles in the eye and side of the 
head.  She tried lots of c/s but it is not working and neither is it 
working on the rash on the face.  She never had chicken pox as a kid but 
where she works she is under EXTREME stress, I feel this is the cause of 
the shingles.  she is working even though she is contagous, I do not know 
what to do. How can she get the c/s to work?

I had shingles and it worked great on me.
Mary



From: Ode Coyote 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 5:59 AM
Subject: Re: CS>CS strength and PPM.



  Yes
Ode



At 06:46 AM 11/14/2013 -0500, you wrote:
I have a question about CS strength and PPM.  If you have a 10 PPM CS and 
mix and equal amount of plain water with it, does it turn it into 5 PPM CS?



--
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 Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org/

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Re: CS>CS strength and PPM.

[dAVId]

New at using CS, had a twenty year problem with candida, faulty immune
system, dock had me on two script anti candida meds for two months,
systemic candida, I felt much better.  Then started taking four teaspoons
CS from amazon.com
CS 500ppm, fourth day, really was suffering from I assume die off, after a
couple days added silver biotics, two tablespoons 10ppm.
Another three days of die off.
At present I take two teaspoons of 500ppm and three tablespoons of 10ppm
daily.
It seems the pharma medications had an impact, but was not totally
affective.
I have discovered if I drink a glass of coca cola, caffiene and sugar, the
candida begins to itch, at my current
condition, I only get a very small amount in my inner ears and moustache
area.
Perhaps taking too much, but I was very desperate at the time.
I plan to learn how to make this stuff, but thusfar I have spent less than
a hundred dollars, which was well spent.
Any thoughts would be well received here, david lubbock tx.





On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 9:30 AM,  wrote:

> Ode,
> I have a question
> Three days ago, my daughter developed shingles in the eye and side of the
> head.  She tried lots of c/s but it is not working and neither is it
> working on the rash on the face.  She never had chicken pox as a kid but
> where she works she is under EXTREME stress, I feel this is the cause of
> the shingles.  she is working even though she is contagous, I do not know
> what to do. How can she get the c/s to work?
> I had shingles and it worked great on me.
> Mary
>
>
>   --
>  *From:* Ode Coyote 
> *To:* silver-list@eskimo.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 14, 2013 5:59 AM
> *Subject:* Re: CS>CS strength and PPM.
>
>
>
>   Yes
> Ode
>
>
>
> At 06:46 AM 11/14/2013 -0500, you wrote:
>
> I have a question about CS strength and PPM.  If you have a 10 PPM CS and
> mix and equal amount of plain water with it, does it turn it into 5 PPM CS?
>
>
> --
> The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
>  Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org/
>
>
> Unsubscribe:
>  
> <mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe
> >
> Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html
>
> Off-Topic discussions: 
> <mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com
> >
> List Owner: Mike Devour <mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com >
>
>
>
>
>

Re: CS>CS strength and PPM.

[Lena Guyot]

I've had shingles, and treated it myself, but would definitely go to the doc if 
it's in the eyes, as it can be very serious, even vision-threatening there! 
Meanwhile, L-Lysine is good for shingles. Also avoid legumes, because even 
though they have lots of L-lysine, they also have L-argenine, which shingles 
loves.
I now routinely take 1000mg of L-Lysine daily. Shingles can come back and once 
you've had it, you know you NEVER want a repeat.
Good luck!
Be well,
Léna
On Nov 14, 2013, at 10:30 AM, mborg...@att.net wrote:

> Ode,
> I have a question
> Three days ago, my daughter developed shingles in the eye and side of the 
> head.  She tried lots of c/s but it is not working and neither is it working 
> on the rash on the face.  She never had chicken pox as a kid but where she 
> works she is under EXTREME stress, I feel this is the cause of the shingles.  
> she is working even though she is contagous, I do not know what to do. How 
> can she get the c/s to work?
> I had shingles and it worked great on me.
> Mary
> 
> 
> From: Ode Coyote 
> To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 5:59 AM
> Subject: Re: CS>CS strength and PPM.
> 
> 
> 
>   Yes
> Ode
> 
> 
> 
> At 06:46 AM 11/14/2013 -0500, you wrote:
>> I have a question about CS strength and PPM.  If you have a 10 PPM CS and 
>> mix and equal amount of plain water with it, does it turn it into 5 PPM CS?
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
>>  Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org/
>> 
>> Unsubscribe:
>>  <mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe>
>> Archives:  http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html
>> 
>> Off-Topic discussions: <mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com>
>> List Owner: Mike Devour <mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com>
>> 
>> 
> 
> 

Re: CS>CS strength and PPM.

[mborgert]

Ode,
I have a question
Three days ago, my daughter developed shingles in the eye and side of the head. 
 She tried lots of c/s but it is not working and neither is it working on the 
rash on the face.  She never had chicken pox as a kid but where she works she 
is under EXTREME stress, I feel this is the cause of the shingles.  she is 
working even though she is contagous, I do not know what to do. How can she get 
the c/s to work?
I had shingles and it worked great on me.
Mary





 From: Ode Coyote 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 5:59 AM
Subject: Re: CS>CS strength and PPM.
 




  Yes
Ode



At 06:46 AM 11/14/2013 -0500, you wrote:

I have a question about CS strength
and PPM.  If you have a 10 PPM CS and mix and equal amount of plain
water with it, does it turn it into 5 PPM CS?
>
>
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>
>

Re: CS>CS strength and PPM.

[MaryAnn Helland]

Just wanted to enter a caveat though -- never mix CS with "plain water" -- it 
stops being CS.  Only mix it with distilled water.
MA



>
> From: Ode Coyote 
>To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
>Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 7:59 AM
>Subject: Re: CS>CS strength and PPM.
> 
>
>
>
>
>  Yes
>Ode
>
>
>
>At 06:46 AM 11/14/2013 -0500, you wrote:
>
>I have a question about CS strength
and PPM.  If you have a 10 PPM CS and mix and equal amount of plain
water with it, does it turn it into 5 PPM CS?
>>
>>
>>--
>>The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal
Silver.
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>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: CS>CS strength and PPM.

[Ode Coyote]

  Yes
Ode



At 06:46 AM 11/14/2013 -0500, you wrote:
I have a question about CS strength and PPM.  If you have a 10 PPM CS and 
mix and equal amount of plain water with it, does it turn it into 5 PPM CS?



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CS>CS strength and PPM.

[JD]

I have a question about CS strength and PPM.  If you have a 10 PPM CS 
and mix and equal amount of plain water with it, does it turn it into 5 
PPM CS?



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Re: CS>Setting for higher PPM

[PT Ferrance]

OK, Melly.  Would you try to leave a little bit of the message you are replying 
to in your reply?
Thanks.
PT





 From: Melly Bag 
To: "silverlist@yahoo"  
Sent: Monday, September 9, 2013 2:59 PM
Subject: CS>Setting for higher PPM
 


Sorry, PT.  I was replying to the setting of the Silver Puppy for higher ppm.

 
Melly

CS>Setting for higher PPM

[Melly Bag]

Sorry, PT.  I was replying to the setting of the Silver Puppy for higher ppm.

 
Melly

Re: CS>high PPM EIS concept:

[David AuBuchon]

Very interesting...Thanks a ton for those responses.

David

On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 9:37 AM, Asif Nathekar wrote:

> **
> I use a current controlled CS generator, by increasing the 'distance'
> between the electrodes by means of a maze type container would
> THEORETICALLY help me by increasing the resistance of the DW so that i can
> keep the voltages higher where it tends to brew more efficiently, without
> reaching a low voltage so soon and limiting the process.
>
> for example in my setup when i reach below 6v it seems reluctant to brew
> any more.
>
> and that's with a setup where I can increase the distance between the
> electrodes, when I reach a limit, I increase the distance between the
> electrodes so that I can brew again by increasing the voltages.
>
> I can get 38us roughly using this method, although I am an advocate of
> very low current brewing (0.1/0.2ma per SQ inch) and my setup is geared for
> this in mind, so my current controlled setup will go low voltage quicker
> than most to maintain the low currents I am looking for my brew.
>
> the reason I mention this is that I understand the wisdom behind the
> question and agree with this line of reasoning based on my experiences .
>
> Peace to all,
>
> Asif.
>
>
>
>  *From:* Marshall 
> *Sent:* Friday, October 26, 2012 3:16 PM
> *To:* silver-list@eskimo.com
> *Subject:* Re: CS>high PPM EIS concept:
>
> On 10/25/2012 11:01 PM, David AuBuchon wrote:
>
> I hope I am not violating some basic law(s) of electrochemistry
> here...I'll give myself a 50% chance of someone correcting me:
>
> What if you divided the cell with a material that is nonconducting, does
> not react with silver ions, and manages to obstruct the flow of current
> between the electrodes completely.  Then you punched a small hole in the
> material.  Current could pass through that hole.  If that hole could be
> moved around in the plane of that sheet of material, it could confound the
> silver ions trying to migrate towards that hole, as they rarely succeed in
> passing through it before it has moved to somewhere else.  Could this allow
> an indefinite amount of silver ions to get into solution?
>
> I guess it is like creating an artificial sense of "infinite distance"
> between electrodes without there ever being such a thing.
>
> Another concept is to literally create a large distance between
> electrodes.  Could this not also be helpful in reaching higher
> concentrations of silver ions?  A way to do this is to create some kind of
> a maze for the ion to have to travel through.
>
>
> The problem is that the ions will over a short time diffuse so that they
> are even throughout the solution due to diffusion.  This this would
> accomplish nothing.  However I have heard of people socking the electrode,
> apparently the ions can have a hard time getting through the cloth to the
> other electrode.  If you put a osmosis barrier in there, that just might do
> what you are wanting.
>
> Marshall
>
>
>
> David
>
>
> --
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5353 - Release Date: 10/25/12
>
>
>

Re: CS>high PPM EIS concept:

[Asif Nathekar]

I use a current controlled CS generator, by increasing the 'distance' between 
the electrodes by means of a maze type container would THEORETICALLY help me by 
increasing the resistance of the DW so that i can keep the voltages higher 
where it tends to brew more efficiently, without reaching a low voltage so soon 
and limiting the process.

for example in my setup when i reach below 6v it seems reluctant to brew any 
more.

and that's with a setup where I can increase the distance between the 
electrodes, when I reach a limit, I increase the distance between the 
electrodes so that I can brew again by increasing the voltages.

I can get 38us roughly using this method, although I am an advocate of very low 
current brewing (0.1/0.2ma per SQ inch) and my setup is geared for this in 
mind, so my current controlled setup will go low voltage quicker than most to 
maintain the low currents I am looking for my brew.

the reason I mention this is that I understand the wisdom behind the question 
and agree with this line of reasoning based on my experiences .

Peace to all,

Asif.




From: Marshall 
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 3:16 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
Subject: Re: CS>high PPM EIS concept:


On 10/25/2012 11:01 PM, David AuBuchon wrote: 
  I hope I am not violating some basic law(s) of electrochemistry here...I'll 
give myself a 50% chance of someone correcting me:

  What if you divided the cell with a material that is nonconducting, does not 
react with silver ions, and manages to obstruct the flow of current between the 
electrodes completely.  Then you punched a small hole in the material.  Current 
could pass through that hole.  If that hole could be moved around in the plane 
of that sheet of material, it could confound the silver ions trying to migrate 
towards that hole, as they rarely succeed in passing through it before it has 
moved to somewhere else.  Could this allow an indefinite amount of silver ions 
to get into solution?

  I guess it is like creating an artificial sense of "infinite distance" 
between electrodes without there ever being such a thing.  

  Another concept is to literally create a large distance between electrodes.  
Could this not also be helpful in reaching higher concentrations of silver 
ions?  A way to do this is to create some kind of a maze for the ion to have to 
travel through.  


The problem is that the ions will over a short time diffuse so that they are 
even throughout the solution due to diffusion.  This this would accomplish 
nothing.  However I have heard of people socking the electrode, apparently the 
ions can have a hard time getting through the cloth to the other electrode.  If 
you put a osmosis barrier in there, that just might do what you are wanting.

Marshall



  David



--

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  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
  Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5353 - Release Date: 10/25/12

Re: CS>high PPM EIS concept:

[Marshall]

On 10/25/2012 11:01 PM, David AuBuchon wrote:
I hope I am not violating some basic law(s) of electrochemistry 
here...I'll give myself a 50% chance of someone correcting me:


What if you divided the cell with a material that is nonconducting, 
does not react with silver ions, and manages to obstruct the flow of 
current between the electrodes completely.  Then you punched a small 
hole in the material.  Current could pass through that hole.  If that 
hole could be moved around in the plane of that sheet of material, it 
could confound the silver ions trying to migrate towards that hole, as 
they rarely succeed in passing through it before it has moved to 
somewhere else.  Could this allow an indefinite amount of silver ions 
to get into solution?


I guess it is like creating an artificial sense of "infinite distance" 
between electrodes without there ever being such a thing.


Another concept is to literally create a large distance between 
electrodes.  Could this not also be helpful in reaching higher 
concentrations of silver ions?  A way to do this is to create some 
kind of a maze for the ion to have to travel through.


The problem is that the ions will over a short time diffuse so that they 
are even throughout the solution due to diffusion.  This this would 
accomplish nothing.  However I have heard of people socking the 
electrode, apparently the ions can have a hard time getting through the 
cloth to the other electrode.  If you put a osmosis barrier in there, 
that just might do what you are wanting.


Marshall



David




No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5353 - Release Date: 10/25/12

Re: CS>high PPM EIS concept:

[asif nathekar]

Reverse Osmosis Membrane or something analogous to that perhaps?

From: David AuBuchon 
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 4:01 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
Subject: CS>high PPM EIS concept:

I hope I am not violating some basic law(s) of electrochemistry here...I'll 
give myself a 50% chance of someone correcting me:

What if you divided the cell with a material that is nonconducting, does not 
react with silver ions, and manages to obstruct the flow of current between the 
electrodes completely.  Then you punched a small hole in the material.  Current 
could pass through that hole.  If that hole could be moved around in the plane 
of that sheet of material, it could confound the silver ions trying to migrate 
towards that hole, as they rarely succeed in passing through it before it has 
moved to somewhere else.  Could this allow an indefinite amount of silver ions 
to get into solution?

I guess it is like creating an artificial sense of "infinite distance" between 
electrodes without there ever being such a thing.  

Another concept is to literally create a large distance between electrodes.  
Could this not also be helpful in reaching higher concentrations of silver 
ions?  A way to do this is to create some kind of a maze for the ion to have to 
travel through.  


David

CS>high PPM EIS concept:

[David AuBuchon]

I hope I am not violating some basic law(s) of electrochemistry here...I'll
give myself a 50% chance of someone correcting me:

What if you divided the cell with a material that is nonconducting, does
not react with silver ions, and manages to obstruct the flow of current
between the electrodes completely.  Then you punched a small hole in the
material.  Current could pass through that hole.  If that hole could be
moved around in the plane of that sheet of material, it could confound the
silver ions trying to migrate towards that hole, as they rarely succeed in
passing through it before it has moved to somewhere else.  Could this allow
an indefinite amount of silver ions to get into solution?

I guess it is like creating an artificial sense of "infinite distance"
between electrodes without there ever being such a thing.

Another concept is to literally create a large distance between
electrodes.  Could this not also be helpful in reaching higher
concentrations of silver ions?  A way to do this is to create some kind of
a maze for the ion to have to travel through.


David

RE: CS>Heat increasing ppm

[Neville Munn]

Sorry David, my pea brain wasn't thinking straight.  Yes, Yes, of course.  As 
colour becomes more prominent so the amount of silver content increases {ions 
lost to particle formation} thus the *ACTUAL* silver content will be higher, 
taking into consideration the ion and particle content combined, as that colour 
gets deeper regardless of what the meter reads.  The more colour, exponentially 
the more *inaccurate* those meters become.  The particles being unmeasurable 
will throw those meters out more as the colour intensifies because they only 
pick up on ion content.
It's OK, I believe I'm back on track .

N.

> From: da...@alchemysa.com.au
> Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 19:55:16 +0930
> To: silver-list@eskimo.com
> Subject: CS>Heat increasing ppm
> 
> Neville.
> 
> Colour indicates the presence of silver particles. (It doesn't matter  
> what the color is... it could be yellow, grey, white, black or any  
> other possible colour). Particles contain large amounts of silver but  
> they are not conductive so they are not detectable or measurable by  
> any TDS, PPM or EC meter.
> 
> Particle formation begins immediately that you begin making a batch  
> but increases significantly as you get closer to the saturation point  
> of the water - then the color becomes more obvious.
> 
> I'm sure you've already observed that you can run a generator all  
> week and produce a pile of fuzz but you'll still only see a ppm  
> reading of 5 or 6 on a TDS meter.
> 
> Regards
> David
> 
> 
> 
> >>>
> >

  

CS>Heat increasing ppm

[Alchemysa]

Neville.

Colour indicates the presence of silver particles. (It doesn't matter  
what the color is... it could be yellow, grey, white, black or any  
other possible colour). Particles contain large amounts of silver but  
they are not conductive so they are not detectable or measurable by  
any TDS, PPM or EC meter.


Particle formation begins immediately that you begin making a batch  
but increases significantly as you get closer to the saturation point  
of the water - then the color becomes more obvious.


I'm sure you've already observed that you can run a generator all  
week and produce a pile of fuzz but you'll still only see a ppm  
reading of 5 or 6 on a TDS meter.


Regards
David







Date: 26 September 2012 12:39:42 PM
To: "silver-list@eskimo.com" 
Subject: RE: CS>Heat increasing ppm


Well I might just have to question that reasoning in the interest  
of possibly learning something.  If one knows the water is pure, so  
let's assume we all know what we are doing by way of EIS  
production, what difference does colour make in relation to meter  
readings?  You've still only got water with silver in it.  Doubling  
the TDS readout will give approximate TOTAL silver content the same  
as the EC meter readout 'as is' will give an approximate TOTAL  
silver content indication.


All meters work on conductivity hence they will all give an  
approximate TOTAL silver content reading.  Doesn't matter if the EC  
meter is calibrated supposedly 1:1, or if one simply doubles the  
reading on a TDS meter, it's still a reading of TOTAL silver  
content in the water.  I know meters pick up on the ionic  
component, but doing the rough calculations we are speaking about  
here they will all give an approximate silver content in total, not  
just ions.  This is why I use meters just to give me a 'ballpark'  
figure at shutoff point.


N.

> From: da...@alchemysa.com.au
> Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 12:21:05 +0930
> To: silver-list@eskimo.com
> Subject: CS>Heat increasing ppm
>
> When using a PPM / TDS meter you have to multiply the reading by  
2 to

> 2.5 times to give you a rough ppm of the IONIC (dissolved) silver in
> CS. In CLEAR CS this reading will be roughly equivalent to the a
> TOTAL silver ppm in the CS. (i.e. the ionic silver plus the  
colloidal

> silver). If the colloidal silver is NOT clear then any meter is a
> pretty useless.
>
> Alternatively use a meter that has a conductivity (EC) mode (like a
> COM100) that measures out in microseimens. (uS). In that mode its
> basically a 1 to 1 conversion so you don't have to double it like  
you

> do with TDS/PPM mode. (But like a TDS meter its still only useful in
> clear CS).
>
> See Frank Key's www.silver-colloids.com site for comparisons of
> electrical conductivity and Ag+ ppm
>
> David
>



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Re: CS>Heat increasing ppm. (spectrophotometer)

[polo]

Marshall,

Interesting that you use a spectrophotometer. Can you tell me how you get 
reference cuvette solutions to graph what your CS sample is. To me, that would 
be the tricky part. You would 0 out with distilled water, but where do you get 
known CS concentrations to plot your readings?

thanks,

doug



  - Original Message - 
  From: Marshall 
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:05 AM
  Subject: Re: CS>Heat increasing ppm.


  You can get accurate measurements using a spectrophotometer.  That is what I 
use when I need accurate data.

  Marshall

RE: CS>Heat increasing ppm

[Neville Munn]

Well I might just have to question that reasoning in the interest of possibly 
learning something.  If one knows the water is pure, so let's assume we all 
know what we are doing by way of EIS production, what difference does colour 
make in relation to meter readings?  You've still only got water with silver in 
it.  Doubling the TDS readout will give approximate TOTAL silver content the 
same as the EC meter readout 'as is' will give an approximate TOTAL silver 
content indication.
All meters work on conductivity hence they will all give an approximate TOTAL 
silver content reading.  Doesn't matter if the EC meter is calibrated 
supposedly 1:1, or if one simply doubles the reading on a TDS meter, it's still 
a reading of TOTAL silver content in the water.  I know meters pick up on the 
ionic component, but doing the rough calculations we are speaking about here 
they will all give an approximate silver content in total, not just ions.  This 
is why I use meters just to give me a 'ballpark' figure at shutoff point.

N.

> From: da...@alchemysa.com.au
> Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 12:21:05 +0930
> To: silver-list@eskimo.com
> Subject: CS>Heat increasing ppm
> 
> When using a PPM / TDS meter you have to multiply the reading by 2 to  
> 2.5 times to give you a rough ppm of the IONIC (dissolved) silver in  
> CS. In CLEAR CS this reading will be roughly equivalent to the a  
> TOTAL silver ppm in the CS. (i.e. the ionic silver plus the colloidal  
> silver). If the colloidal silver is NOT clear then any meter is a  
> pretty useless.
> 
> Alternatively use a meter that has a conductivity (EC) mode (like a  
> COM100) that measures out in microseimens. (uS). In that mode its  
> basically a 1 to 1 conversion so you don't have to double it like you  
> do with TDS/PPM mode. (But like a TDS meter its still only useful in  
> clear CS).
> 
> See Frank Key's www.silver-colloids.com site for comparisons of  
> electrical conductivity and Ag+ ppm
> 
> David
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > From: Lou Kraft 
> > Date: 25 September 2012 1:55:02 AM
> > To: silver-list@eskimo.com
> > Subject: Re: CS>Heat increasing ppm.
> >
> >
> > Yes, I am certain now that it is the conductivity that is showing  
> > on my ppm meter.  That being the case, and if most ppm meters are  
> > being calibrated for NaCl (I have read), how do I get an accurate  
> > Ag ppm assessment of my finished product?  Using a standard TDS  
> > meter and the fact that there is a difference in conductivity  
> > between NaCl and Ag, how does the reading (10ppm) actually apply  
> > for Ag ppm.
> > This prompts the questions - Is there a device (meter or way) for  
> > measuring ppm Ag. more accurately.
> > If I am missing the point here with this just let me know.  It just  
> > seemed logical.
> > Thanks, Lou
> 
> 
> --
> The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
>   Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org
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> 
> 
  

CS>Heat increasing ppm

[Alchemysa]

When using a PPM / TDS meter you have to multiply the reading by 2 to  
2.5 times to give you a rough ppm of the IONIC (dissolved) silver in  
CS. In CLEAR CS this reading will be roughly equivalent to the a  
TOTAL silver ppm in the CS. (i.e. the ionic silver plus the colloidal  
silver). If the colloidal silver is NOT clear then any meter is a  
pretty useless.


Alternatively use a meter that has a conductivity (EC) mode (like a  
COM100) that measures out in microseimens. (uS). In that mode its  
basically a 1 to 1 conversion so you don't have to double it like you  
do with TDS/PPM mode. (But like a TDS meter its still only useful in  
clear CS).


See Frank Key's www.silver-colloids.com site for comparisons of  
electrical conductivity and Ag+ ppm


David





From: Lou Kraft 
Date: 25 September 2012 1:55:02 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>Heat increasing ppm.


Yes, I am certain now that it is the conductivity that is showing  
on my ppm meter.  That being the case, and if most ppm meters are  
being calibrated for NaCl (I have read), how do I get an accurate  
Ag ppm assessment of my finished product?  Using a standard TDS  
meter and the fact that there is a difference in conductivity  
between NaCl and Ag, how does the reading (10ppm) actually apply  
for Ag ppm.
This prompts the questions - Is there a device (meter or way) for  
measuring ppm Ag. more accurately.
If I am missing the point here with this just let me know.  It just  
seemed logical.

Thanks, Lou



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Re: CS>Heat increasing ppm.

[Marshall]

You can get accurate measurements using a spectrophotometer.  That is 
what I use when I need accurate data.


Marshall

On 9/24/2012 12:25 PM, Lou Kraft wrote:
Yes, I am certain now that it is the conductivity that is showing on 
my ppm meter.  That being the case, and if most ppm meters are being 
calibrated for NaCl (I have read), how do I get an accurate Ag ppm 
assessment of my finished product?  Using a standard TDS meter and the 
fact that there is a difference in conductivity between NaCl and Ag, 
how does the reading (10ppm) actually apply for Ag ppm.
This prompts the questions - Is there a device (meter or way) for 
measuring ppm Ag. more accurately.
If I am missing the point here with this just let me know.  It just 
seemed logical.

Thanks, Lou

On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Marshall <mailto:mdud...@king-cart.com>> wrote:


It is impossible for the ppm to change with temperature.  PPM is a
constant, unless you have some settling out, or the water is
evaporating.  How are you measuring the ppm?  Remember
conductivity increases significantly with temperature, so if you
are measuring conductivity you are measuring a change in
conductivity with temperature.

Marshall


On 9/22/2012 2:21 PM, Lou Kraft wrote:

I have noticed that if I heat my finished CS (microwave or stove)
    the ppm increases exponentially. An 8ppm solution increased to
16ppm when heated to near boil and returns to 8ppm at room temp. 
Is this just the separation of large molecules to smaller when

stimualted by heat? Lou


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09/22/12






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RE: CS>Heat increasing ppm.

[Scotty]

I concur. I only use my meter for measuring my CS as it gets closer to the end 
of brewing time. Works well for me. Been doing this for the past 6 years with 
nothing but great results. I don't sell mine but give it away to friends and 
familyand IT works for all of us!
ScottyHave a great day!

 


--- On Mon, 9/24/12, Neville Munn  wrote:

From: Neville Munn 
Subject: RE: CS>Heat increasing ppm.
To: "silver-list@eskimo.com" 
Date: Monday, September 24, 2012, 5:47 PM





If I may, don't be overly concerned about measuring your solutions accurately, 
there is no meter which can be used in the home I know of that is calibrated 
for Ag, so the only 'way' you will accurately determine what you have is by 
laboratory analysis, and that's not necessary unless you are a commercial 
enterprise.
All meters used are inaccurate, but they are 'inaccurate' enough for home 
purposes.  I use meters to determine my shutoff point with each batch I 
produce, that gives me a *rough* idea of what I am repeatedly producing for 
each batch without wild ar*e guessing {I like to know there is *something* in 
that water besides water }.  
There's no need to be 100% accurate with the home produced LVDC product as it 
is a predominantly ionic silver solution, and that type solution doesn't hang 
around in the body long enough to cause any unwanted issues.  It doesn't have 
to be administered/applied/ingested/used in prescription measured amounts.
N.

Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 12:25:02 -0400
Subject: Re: CS>Heat increasing ppm.
From: loukra...@gmail.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com

Yes, I am certain now that it is the conductivity that is showing on my ppm 
meter.  That being the case, and if most ppm meters are being calibrated for 
NaCl (I have read), how do I get an accurate Ag ppm assessment of my finished 
product?  Using a standard TDS meter and the fact that there is a difference in 
conductivity between NaCl and Ag, how does the reading (10ppm) actually 
apply for Ag ppm.  
This prompts the questions - Is there a device (meter or way) for measuring ppm 
Ag. more accurately. If I am missing the point here with this just let me 
know.  It just seemed logical.Thanks, Lou


On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Marshall  wrote:



  

  
  
It is impossible for the ppm to change with temperature.  PPM is a
constant, unless you have some settling out, or the water is
evaporating.  How are you measuring the ppm?  Remember conductivity
increases significantly with temperature, so if you are measuring
conductivity you are measuring a change in conductivity with
temperature.



Marshall



On 9/22/2012 2:21 PM, Lou Kraft wrote:
I have noticed that if I heat my finished CS
  (microwave or stove) the ppm increases exponentially. An 8ppm
  solution increased to 16ppm when heated to near boil and returns
  to 8ppm at room temp.  Is this just the separation of large
  molecules to smaller when stimualted by heat? Lou
  
  No virus found in
this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5285 - Release Date:
09/22/12



  


  

RE: CS>Heat increasing ppm.

[Neville Munn]

If I may, don't be overly concerned about measuring your solutions accurately, 
there is no meter which can be used in the home I know of that is calibrated 
for Ag, so the only 'way' you will accurately determine what you have is by 
laboratory analysis, and that's not necessary unless you are a commercial 
enterprise.
All meters used are inaccurate, but they are 'inaccurate' enough for home 
purposes.  I use meters to determine my shutoff point with each batch I 
produce, that gives me a *rough* idea of what I am repeatedly producing for 
each batch without wild ar*e guessing {I like to know there is *something* in 
that water besides water }.  
There's no need to be 100% accurate with the home produced LVDC product as it 
is a predominantly ionic silver solution, and that type solution doesn't hang 
around in the body long enough to cause any unwanted issues.  It doesn't have 
to be administered/applied/ingested/used in prescription measured amounts.
N.

Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 12:25:02 -0400
Subject: Re: CS>Heat increasing ppm.
From: loukra...@gmail.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com

Yes, I am certain now that it is the conductivity that is showing on my ppm 
meter.  That being the case, and if most ppm meters are being calibrated for 
NaCl (I have read), how do I get an accurate Ag ppm assessment of my finished 
product?  Using a standard TDS meter and the fact that there is a difference in 
conductivity between NaCl and Ag, how does the reading (10ppm) actually apply 
for Ag ppm.  
This prompts the questions - Is there a device (meter or way) for measuring ppm 
Ag. more accurately. If I am missing the point here with this just let me know. 
 It just seemed logical.Thanks, Lou


On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Marshall  wrote:



  

  
  
It is impossible for the ppm to change with temperature.  PPM is a
constant, unless you have some settling out, or the water is
evaporating.  How are you measuring the ppm?  Remember conductivity
increases significantly with temperature, so if you are measuring
conductivity you are measuring a change in conductivity with
temperature.



Marshall



On 9/22/2012 2:21 PM, Lou Kraft wrote:
I have noticed that if I heat my finished CS
  (microwave or stove) the ppm increases exponentially. An 8ppm
  solution increased to 16ppm when heated to near boil and returns
  to 8ppm at room temp.  Is this just the separation of large
  molecules to smaller when stimualted by heat? Lou
  
  No virus found in
this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5285 - Release Date:
09/22/12



  


  

Re: CS>Heat increasing ppm.

[Lou Kraft]

Yes, I am certain now that it is the conductivity that is showing on my ppm
meter.  That being the case, and if most ppm meters are being
calibrated for NaCl (I have read), how do I get an accurate Ag ppm
assessment of my finished product?  Using a standard TDS meter and the fact
that there is a difference in conductivity between NaCl and Ag, how does
the reading (10ppm) actually apply for Ag ppm.
This prompts the questions - Is there a device (meter or way) for measuring
ppm Ag. more accurately.
If I am missing the point here with this just let me know.  It just seemed
logical.
Thanks, Lou

On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Marshall  wrote:

> **
> It is impossible for the ppm to change with temperature.  PPM is a
> constant, unless you have some settling out, or the water is evaporating.
> How are you measuring the ppm?  Remember conductivity increases
> significantly with temperature, so if you are measuring conductivity you
> are measuring a change in conductivity with temperature.
>
> Marshall
>
>
> On 9/22/2012 2:21 PM, Lou Kraft wrote:
>
> I have noticed that if I heat my finished CS (microwave or stove) the ppm
> increases exponentially. An 8ppm solution increased to 16ppm when heated to
> near boil and returns to 8ppm at room temp.  Is this just the separation of
> large molecules to smaller when stimualted by heat? Lou
> --
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5285 - Release Date: 09/22/12
>
>
>

Re: CS>Heat increasing ppm.

[Marshall]

TDS conductivity meters have a far from perfect temperature 
calibration.   They are only of limited accuracy over a fairly limited 
temperature range.


Marshall

On 9/23/2012 11:31 AM, Lou Kraft wrote:

Forgot to mention, I use a simple TDS meter.
Item image

On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 11:29 AM, Lou Kraft <mailto:loukra...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Excellent feedback Ode, I have noticed that there are different
meters (PWT, TDS and others)  and read that the typical meter
is claibrated for NaCl and not Ag.  What do you recommend so that
I can get a resonable consistance in my solutions.
All else being consistant i.e. Water purity, water aggitation and
14V 360mA power source.
Thanks, Lou

On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 7:09 AM, Ode Coyote
mailto:odecoy...@windstream.net>> wrote:



Meters do not measure PPM, they detect conductivity.
Hot water is more conductive than cool water.
To be more precise, electrons are carried in a liquid by
electro-chemical ion exchanges.
Heat speeds up the chemical reactions.

Ode




At 02:21 PM 9/22/2012 -0400, you wrote:

I have noticed that if I heat my finished CS (microwave or
    stove) the ppm increases exponentially. An 8ppm solution
increased to 16ppm when heated to near boil and returns to
8ppm at room temp.  Is this just the separation of large
molecules to smaller when stimualted by heat? Lou 






No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5287 - Release Date: 09/23/12

Re: CS>Heat increasing ppm.

[Marshall]

It is impossible for the ppm to change with temperature.  PPM is a 
constant, unless you have some settling out, or the water is 
evaporating.  How are you measuring the ppm?  Remember conductivity 
increases significantly with temperature, so if you are measuring 
conductivity you are measuring a change in conductivity with temperature.


Marshall

On 9/22/2012 2:21 PM, Lou Kraft wrote:
I have noticed that if I heat my finished CS (microwave or stove) the 
ppm increases exponentially. An 8ppm solution increased to 16ppm when 
heated to near boil and returns to 8ppm at room temp.  Is this just 
the separation of large molecules to smaller when stimualted by heat? Lou



No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5285 - Release Date: 09/22/12

Re: CS>Heat increasing ppm.

[Lou Kraft]

Forgot to mention, I use a simple TDS meter.
[image: Item image]

On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 11:29 AM, Lou Kraft  wrote:

> Excellent feedback Ode, I have noticed that there are different meters
> (PWT, TDS and others)  and read that the typical meter is claibrated for
> NaCl and not Ag.  What do you recommend so that I can get a resonable
> consistance in my solutions.
> All else being consistant i.e. Water purity, water aggitation and 14V
> 360mA power source.
> Thanks, Lou
>
> On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 7:09 AM, Ode Coyote wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Meters do not measure PPM, they detect conductivity.
>> Hot water is more conductive than cool water.
>> To be more precise, electrons are carried in a liquid by electro-chemical
>> ion exchanges.
>> Heat speeds up the chemical reactions.
>>
>> Ode
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> At 02:21 PM 9/22/2012 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>> I have noticed that if I heat my finished CS (microwave or stove) the ppm
>> increases exponentially. An 8ppm solution increased to 16ppm when heated to
>> near boil and returns to 8ppm at room temp.  Is this just the separation of
>> large molecules to smaller when stimualted by heat? Lou
>>
>>
>

Re: CS>Heat increasing ppm.

[Lou Kraft]

Excellent feedback Ode, I have noticed that there are different meters
(PWT, TDS and others)  and read that the typical meter is claibrated for
NaCl and not Ag.  What do you recommend so that I can get a resonable
consistance in my solutions.
All else being consistant i.e. Water purity, water aggitation and 14V 360mA
power source.
Thanks, Lou

On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 7:09 AM, Ode Coyote wrote:

>
>
> Meters do not measure PPM, they detect conductivity.
> Hot water is more conductive than cool water.
> To be more precise, electrons are carried in a liquid by electro-chemical
> ion exchanges.
> Heat speeds up the chemical reactions.
>
> Ode
>
>
>
>
> At 02:21 PM 9/22/2012 -0400, you wrote:
>
> I have noticed that if I heat my finished CS (microwave or stove) the ppm
> increases exponentially. An 8ppm solution increased to 16ppm when heated to
> near boil and returns to 8ppm at room temp.  Is this just the separation of
> large molecules to smaller when stimualted by heat? Lou
>
>

Re: CS>Heat increasing ppm.

[Ode Coyote]

Meters do not measure PPM, they detect conductivity.
Hot water is more conductive than cool water.
To be more precise, electrons are carried in a liquid by electro-chemical 
ion exchanges.

Heat speeds up the chemical reactions.

Ode



At 02:21 PM 9/22/2012 -0400, you wrote:
I have noticed that if I heat my finished CS (microwave or stove) the ppm 
increases exponentially. An 8ppm solution increased to 16ppm when heated 
to near boil and returns to 8ppm at room temp.  Is this just the 
separation of large molecules to smaller when stimualted by heat? Lou

CS>Heat increasing ppm.

[Lou Kraft]

I have noticed that if I heat my finished CS (microwave or stove) the ppm
increases exponentially. An 8ppm solution increased to 16ppm when heated to
near boil and returns to 8ppm at room temp.  Is this just the separation of
large molecules to smaller when stimualted by heat? Lou

Re: CS>Anyone experienced with treating Hep-C? -- 30 ppm?

[David AuBuchon]

ASAP Health Max 30PPM can be ordered by emailing the lady at naturesgateway
directly.
http://www.naturesgateways.com/silversol.html

David

On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 9:44 AM, Diana Clock  wrote:

> Well, I used my own that I made first on Chad, so not sure what ppm that
> was. Jim's method soaked for 3 days. I am thankful to JIm for his work and
> Carol's continuing on for all of us.
>
> I then read that a LLMD had good luck with only the brand of silver ASAP.
> I can get only through my dr office though. I have tried to order on line,
> but you can only get it through a physician.
>
> I use what I make for our cuts, other bug bites, sinus infections,
> granddaughters eczema, cats water, my weird skin, etc. and use the ASAP 30
> ppm for Chad.
>
> We do this because after a year and a half of antib  we chose this and the
> DP 100. And our LLMD was encouraging about all of it!
>
> Have a good day!
>
> Diana
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jun 12, 2012, at 9:24 AM, "Judy Knowlton" 
> wrote:
>
> > Thank you, Diana. That has given me a whole new insight on severe
> > infestation.
> > Have you tried 10 ppm before? What is the advantage to using 30 ppm?
> > Judy K (Judydownmaine)
> >
> > _
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Diana Clock [mailto:dianacl...@ymail.com]
> > Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 9:50 PM
> > To: silver-list@eskimo.com
> > Subject: Re: CS>Anyone experienced with treating Hep-C?
> >
> >
> > Hi Judy
> > We are using asap 30 ppm for our 16 yr old for Lyme we just cannot seem
> > to get past 1/2 teas a day and we use the DP 100 machine. We have
> > trouble detoxing as we know he has the lyme and mold genes which makes
> > it more difficult. He seems to herx too much if we up it. A 2 day bash
> > would so consist of a lot more I guess?
> > Diana
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> > On Jun 11, 2012, at 5:40 PM, Cyndi  wrote:
> >
> >> On 6/11/2012 5:46 PM, Judy Knowlton wrote:
> >>
> >>> It's my continued strong opinion that people often UNDER-dose with 10
> >>> ppm CS.
> >>> Instead, working a bit slowly up to a real 2-day bash might answer
> > the
> >>> problem on tricky
> >>> illnesses like HIV, shingles, Lyme, Hep-C, etc. It would definitely
> > be
> >>> my method.
> >>> Judydownmaine
> >>>
> >>
> >> When I was taking a cup a day, it was for about a 6 month time period,
> > much longer than your 2 day bash.
> >>
> >> I had a neighbor with MRSA from a thumb operation. The hospital had
> > her one antibiotics so severe that she had to take benadryl because she
> > broke out in hives. There was talk of her possibly losing her thumb and
> > this went on for many weeks and months.
> >>
> >> I gave her a quart of my home made cs and had her drink it all that
> > day. Then I gave her a second quart to drink over the course of a week.
> > Within a few days she was healing and got to keep her thumb.
> >>
> >> Cyndi
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
> >> Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org
> >>
> >> Unsubscribe:
> >> <mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe>
> >> Archives:
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html
> >>
> >> Off-Topic discussions: <mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com>
> >> List Owner: Mike Devour <mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>

Re: CS>Anyone experienced with treating Hep-C? -- 30 ppm?

[Diana Clock]

Well, I used my own that I made first on Chad, so not sure what ppm that was. 
Jim's method soaked for 3 days. I am thankful to JIm for his work and Carol's 
continuing on for all of us. 

I then read that a LLMD had good luck with only the brand of silver ASAP. I can 
get only through my dr office though. I have tried to order on line, but you 
can only get it through a physician.

I use what I make for our cuts, other bug bites, sinus infections, 
granddaughters eczema, cats water, my weird skin, etc. and use the ASAP 30 ppm 
for Chad. 

We do this because after a year and a half of antib  we chose this and the DP 
100. And our LLMD was encouraging about all of it!

Have a good day!

Diana




Sent from my iPad

On Jun 12, 2012, at 9:24 AM, "Judy Knowlton"  
wrote:

> Thank you, Diana. That has given me a whole new insight on severe
> infestation.
> Have you tried 10 ppm before? What is the advantage to using 30 ppm?
> Judy K (Judydownmaine)
> 
> _
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Diana Clock [mailto:dianacl...@ymail.com]
> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 9:50 PM
> To: silver-list@eskimo.com
> Subject: Re: CS>Anyone experienced with treating Hep-C?
> 
> 
> Hi Judy
> We are using asap 30 ppm for our 16 yr old for Lyme we just cannot seem
> to get past 1/2 teas a day and we use the DP 100 machine. We have
> trouble detoxing as we know he has the lyme and mold genes which makes
> it more difficult. He seems to herx too much if we up it. A 2 day bash
> would so consist of a lot more I guess?
> Diana
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On Jun 11, 2012, at 5:40 PM, Cyndi  wrote:
> 
>> On 6/11/2012 5:46 PM, Judy Knowlton wrote:
>> 
>>> It's my continued strong opinion that people often UNDER-dose with 10
>>> ppm CS.
>>> Instead, working a bit slowly up to a real 2-day bash might answer
> the
>>> problem on tricky
>>> illnesses like HIV, shingles, Lyme, Hep-C, etc. It would definitely
> be
>>> my method.
>>> Judydownmaine
>>> 
>> 
>> When I was taking a cup a day, it was for about a 6 month time period,
> much longer than your 2 day bash.
>> 
>> I had a neighbor with MRSA from a thumb operation. The hospital had
> her one antibiotics so severe that she had to take benadryl because she
> broke out in hives. There was talk of her possibly losing her thumb and
> this went on for many weeks and months.
>> 
>> I gave her a quart of my home made cs and had her drink it all that
> day. Then I gave her a second quart to drink over the course of a week.
> Within a few days she was healing and got to keep her thumb.
>> 
>> Cyndi
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
>> Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org
>> 
>> Unsubscribe:
>> <mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe>
>> Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html
>> 
>> Off-Topic discussions: <mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com>
>> List Owner: Mike Devour <mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com>
>> 
>> 
> 

RE: CS>Anyone experienced with treating Hep-C? -- 30 ppm?

[Judy Knowlton]

Thank you, Diana. That has given me a whole new insight on severe
infestation.
Have you tried 10 ppm before? What is the advantage to using 30 ppm?
Judy K (Judydownmaine)

 _

-Original Message-
From: Diana Clock [mailto:dianacl...@ymail.com]
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 9:50 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>Anyone experienced with treating Hep-C?


Hi Judy
We are using asap 30 ppm for our 16 yr old for Lyme we just cannot seem
to get past 1/2 teas a day and we use the DP 100 machine. We have
trouble detoxing as we know he has the lyme and mold genes which makes
it more difficult. He seems to herx too much if we up it. A 2 day bash
would so consist of a lot more I guess?
Diana

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 11, 2012, at 5:40 PM, Cyndi  wrote:

> On 6/11/2012 5:46 PM, Judy Knowlton wrote:
>
>> It's my continued strong opinion that people often UNDER-dose with 10
>> ppm CS.
>> Instead, working a bit slowly up to a real 2-day bash might answer
the
>> problem on tricky
>> illnesses like HIV, shingles, Lyme, Hep-C, etc. It would definitely
be
>> my method.
>> Judydownmaine
>>
>
> When I was taking a cup a day, it was for about a 6 month time period,
much longer than your 2 day bash.
>
> I had a neighbor with MRSA from a thumb operation. The hospital had
her one antibiotics so severe that she had to take benadryl because she
broke out in hives. There was talk of her possibly losing her thumb and
this went on for many weeks and months.
>
> I gave her a quart of my home made cs and had her drink it all that
day. Then I gave her a second quart to drink over the course of a week.
Within a few days she was healing and got to keep her thumb.
>
> Cyndi
>
>
> --
> The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
> Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org
>
> Unsubscribe:
> <mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe>
> Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html
>
> Off-Topic discussions: <mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com>
> List Owner: Mike Devour <mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com>
>
>

Re: CS>Testing PPM of ionic silver

[Mike Monett]

Ken, 

I'm sure glad you know how to tell the difference, and left all the good
stuff!

And thanks for confirming my figure of a 60% drop in conductivity with your
own measurments of 65%. That shows the problem is real and affects everyone.

Thanks,

Mike Monett

Ode Coyote  wrote:

> Hogwash deleted.

>Ode

>At 06:21 AM 5/7/2012 -0400, you wrote:
>>Ode Coyote  wrote:
>>
>>[...]
>>
>> >No meter will measure "PPM", but the numbers are about the same between a
>> >devise that will measure PPM and conductivity readings from a meter that
>> >won't at around 10-12 uS =10-12 PPM.after the conductivity stops 
>> dropping.
>> >
>> >The relationship slews off each way in both directions from there a little
>> >bit for a good guess and beyond 30 uS, all bets run off into make a wild 
>> guess.
>> >
>> >Ode


>>If you are seeing a significnt conductivity drop after the brew is
>>finished, you have a contamination problem, most likely silver sulfide, or
>>severe leaching from your soda-lime glass. This can easily give 60% drop in
>>conductivity. If you remove the contamination, the conductivity drop should
>>be around 8% or less.
>>
>>The conductivity of a solution is defined as the reciprocal of the
>>resistance of a 1cm cube. The conductivity is directly proportional to the
>>number of charge carriers in the solution. This is a linear function over
>>the entire range of conductivities we use.
>>
>>For example, the Hanna HI 7033 Calibration Solution is 84uS/cm at 25C. This
>>is a single point calibration, meaning all other measurements fit on a
>>straight line down to zero and are a linear function of the conductivity.
>>
>>For silver and hydroxide ions, the relationship between conductivity and
>>ppm is 1uS = 1 ppm, providing you have no contamination.
>>
>>I did a study long ago that shows this. Note the measurements cover the
>>range of 3.3uS to 26uS. Here is the url:
>>
>>http://silvercentral.org/measure/1us2ppm.htm
>>
>>There is no reason to expect any deviation above this value, for example in
>>the SilverCell process that can easily reach 44uS.
>>
>>If your measurements indicate the results above 30uS are a "wild guess",
>>then there is something seriously wrong with your measurements, or you have
>>significant contamination problems, or both.
>>
>>Since you seem to be insensitive to contamination problems, I would guess
>>both.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Mike Monett


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Re: CS>Testing PPM of ionic silver

[Ode Coyote]

  Hogwash deleted.

Ode



At 06:21 AM 5/7/2012 -0400, you wrote:

Ode Coyote  wrote:

[...]

>No meter will measure "PPM", but the numbers are about the same between a
>devise that will measure PPM and conductivity readings from a meter that
>won't at around 10-12 uS =10-12 PPM.after the conductivity stops 
dropping.

>
>The relationship slews off each way in both directions from there a little
>bit for a good guess and beyond 30 uS, all bets run off into make a wild 
guess.

>
>Ode

If you are seeing a significnt conductivity drop after the brew is
finished, you have a contamination problem, most likely silver sulfide, or
severe leaching from your soda-lime glass. This can easily give 60% drop in
conductivity. If you remove the contamination, the conductivity drop should
be around 8% or less.

The conductivity of a solution is defined as the reciprocal of the
resistance of a 1cm cube. The conductivity is directly proportional to the
number of charge carriers in the solution. This is a linear function over
the entire range of conductivities we use.

For example, the Hanna HI 7033 Calibration Solution is 84uS/cm at 25C. This
is a single point calibration, meaning all other measurements fit on a
straight line down to zero and are a linear function of the conductivity.

For silver and hydroxide ions, the relationship between conductivity and
ppm is 1uS = 1 ppm, providing you have no contamination.

I did a study long ago that shows this. Note the measurements cover the
range of 3.3uS to 26uS. Here is the url:

http://silvercentral.org/measure/1us2ppm.htm

There is no reason to expect any deviation above this value, for example in
the SilverCell process that can easily reach 44uS.

If your measurements indicate the results above 30uS are a "wild guess",
then there is something seriously wrong with your measurements, or you have
significant contamination problems, or both.

Since you seem to be insensitive to contamination problems, I would guess
both.

Thanks,

Mike Monett


--
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  Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org

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Re: CS>Testing PPM of ionic silver

[Mike Monett]

Ode Coyote  wrote:

[...]

>No meter will measure "PPM", but the numbers are about the same between a 
>devise that will measure PPM and conductivity readings from a meter that 
>won't at around 10-12 uS =10-12 PPM.after the conductivity stops dropping.
>
>The relationship slews off each way in both directions from there a little 
>bit for a good guess and beyond 30 uS, all bets run off into make a wild guess.
>
>Ode

If you are seeing a significnt conductivity drop after the brew is
finished, you have a contamination problem, most likely silver sulfide, or
severe leaching from your soda-lime glass. This can easily give 60% drop in
conductivity. If you remove the contamination, the conductivity drop should
be around 8% or less.

The conductivity of a solution is defined as the reciprocal of the
resistance of a 1cm cube. The conductivity is directly proportional to the
number of charge carriers in the solution. This is a linear function over
the entire range of conductivities we use. 

For example, the Hanna HI 7033 Calibration Solution is 84uS/cm at 25C. This
is a single point calibration, meaning all other measurements fit on a
straight line down to zero and are a linear function of the conductivity.

For silver and hydroxide ions, the relationship between conductivity and
ppm is 1uS = 1 ppm, providing you have no contamination. 

I did a study long ago that shows this. Note the measurements cover the
range of 3.3uS to 26uS. Here is the url:

http://silvercentral.org/measure/1us2ppm.htm

There is no reason to expect any deviation above this value, for example in
the SilverCell process that can easily reach 44uS.

If your measurements indicate the results above 30uS are a "wild guess",
then there is something seriously wrong with your measurements, or you have
significant contamination problems, or both. 

Since you seem to be insensitive to contamination problems, I would guess
both.

Thanks,

Mike Monett


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Re: CS>Testing PPM of ionic silver

[Mike Monett]

I missed Melly's post so I will reply through here.

TDS meters can have different calibration depensing on the application. One
is a factor of 2 different from conductivity measured with a pwt. The other
calibration is a different number.

You often cannot tell which number was used to calibrate the TDS. So you
cannot simply double the reading.

If you have a pwt also, simply measure the cs with both meters and take the
ratio. This will tell you what the calibration factor is.

You most likely have some silver sulfide tarnish on the electrodes from
automobile combustion and other sources. This releases sulfur ions into the
solution during the brew and can significantly disrupt the brew. The sulfur
contamination cannot be detected with a pwt.

By far the best way to detemine the quality of your cs is with the Salt
Test. It is immune to the contamination and will give you a direct
indication of the silver ion content. Please see the following link for
more information.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/silvercentral/message/560?l=1

Thanks,

Mike Monett

Ode Coyote  wrote:
>
>
>Both meters measure conductivity and particles aren't conductive.
>You have it backwards.
>
>Meters detect ONLY ionic content.
>
>The PWT doesn't run the conductivity number through an equation meant for 
>salt water.  Roughly double a TDS number to get what a PWT says.
>No meter will measure "PPM", but the numbers are about the same between a 
>devise that will measure PPM and conductivity readings from a meter that 
>won't at around 10-12 uS =10-12 PPM.after the conductivity stops dropping.
>
>The relationship slews off each way in both directions from there a little 
>bit for a good guess and beyond 30 uS, all bets run off into make a wild guess.
>
>Ode
>
>At 06:56 PM 5/5/2012 -0700, you wrote:
>>Monette M mentioned that ionic silver 20+ PPM is good to take when one is 
>>ill.  How does one measure  ionic silver's ppm.  I have both PWT and TDS 
>>meters and i understand they measure colloidal silver's particles.
>>
>>Thanks.
>>
>>Melly
>


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Re: CS>Testing PPM of ionic silver

[Ode Coyote]

Both meters measure conductivity and particles aren't conductive.
You have it backwards.

Meters detect ONLY ionic content.

The PWT doesn't run the conductivity number through an equation meant for 
salt water.  Roughly double a TDS number to get what a PWT says.
No meter will measure "PPM", but the numbers are about the same between a 
devise that will measure PPM and conductivity readings from a meter that 
won't at around 10-12 uS =10-12 PPM.after the conductivity stops dropping.


The relationship slews off each way in both directions from there a little 
bit for a good guess and beyond 30 uS, all bets run off into make a wild guess.


Ode

At 06:56 PM 5/5/2012 -0700, you wrote:
Monette M mentioned that ionic silver 20+ PPM is good to take when one is 
ill.  How does one measure  ionic silver's ppm.  I have both PWT and TDS 
meters and i understand they measure colloidal silver's particles.


Thanks.

Melly

CS>Testing PPM of ionic silver

[Melly Bag]

Monette M mentioned that ionic silver 20+ PPM is good to take when one is ill.  
How does one measure  ionic silver's ppm.  I have both PWT and TDS meters and i 
understand they measure colloidal silver's particles.
 
Thanks.
 
Melly

Re: CS>arthritis and ppm count

[Tel Tofflemire]

David. You got it very right, I say the same thing, but you say it  
better !  CS is different on and in different people, but it's all  
most all good.

Tel
Herbalist


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List Owner: Mike Devour 

CS>arthritis and ppm count

[Jared De la Torriente]

 I must agreed with many  of your  points, but ill asure you i rarely take info 
from sale pitch as hard evidence.  most company that advertise their so called  
TEM pictures can only refered to silver particles not iones.. iones in the 
absent of water  oxidises , there for  will not show their true form in a 
picture. diferent aproche need to be taken.
 
can surely apreciated a well founded difference of point of view as yours, 
indeed the body internal fluids are both colloidal and ionic, iones+ can surely 
attach to other mineral traces and form new sustances such as chlorine, coper 
iones, and many more,  i have read many or most of the so call comercially 
available forms of silver,   silver salts, proteins, nitrates, sulfadine, and 
all the silver colliids ,wether ionic, hidrosol,
 
As you finely put it all  work... but  only differ from the time need it to  
take action and incapacited the pathogens... as you  also  put it in vitro in 
vivo studies are just being  done  or better yet   are being made public.
 
here in mexico our governet doesnt  put  such a hard resistence or bann on 
silver products or homepatic remedies, as the actutude of most 1st world 
country as  usa, europe or britain. many  many  essays, reseach,experiments are 
being done not only in mexico but other places that confirme the efectiveness 
of silver ions. i  dont just read  what google,ask,ping, yahoo results   comes 
up with, i  used COPERNINC AGENT PROFESIONAL, is a specific  topic and INTEREST 
WWW SEARCH ENGINE , you can set it to only  show results from universitites,  
health institues, goverment and more .any how this tool was  very help full in 
finding  information that sopports and clarifies what you may readily find on 
google or such places fill with their agenda and misinformation.
 
like you said  silver hidrosol is still a silver collid, TRUE but not quiet the 
same. is like saying  purified water is  as good as  spring water, not quiet 
the same but related.
 
i`m my own best guiny pig, forgive my english migh be a bit rusty, i must have 
done extensive reasearch for over 5 months and still reading before taking  CS, 
i just did not agreed with all the misinformation on the more comercial web 
sites regarding silver solution.
 
as you surely know, is the surface area covered , zeta potential of silver 
solutions, iones+, that can more rapidily work and  be excreded from the body, 
again this is  COLLIDAL CHEMISTRY literature from many parts, although i think 
that since  silver ions combine in the body and most of it is consume and 
axcreded out, that the remaining silverparticles thant cannot eassyly be 
excreded out can provide a remnant shield protection on the cells thay attach 
to. again only speculation from some light reading.
 
i have a family member that works in a university nearby , he has agreed to 
conduc test on  silver colloid, ionic silver, hidrosol silver, since i just 
dont fully believe the results of such  in vivo, in vitro  experiments 
comercially available on the  web, i can fully trust this family member to be 
objective at least in the spirit of true sciencie
 
 
ill happily share his findings on the groups. thank you the  thought 
stimulation..   namaste.
 
 
 

  

RE: CS>arthritis and ppm count

[Neville Munn]

Ignoring any arguable differences between ions and colloids in the health 
benefit area, to your best understanding, could you define exactly what 
constitutes a 'colloid' for me?  Also, could you define what constitutes a 
colloidal product?  How is *a* product defined as a 'colloidal' product?
Many products are termed 'colloidal' when if fact they are not, they are 
predominantly ionic.  They *should* state, if appropriate or applicable, a 
*predominantly* colloidal product.  THAT'S the major difference to me.
The term 'colloid' as in 'colloidal silver' has been used and abused by 
marketers for decades, and most of those products are not colloidal as they 
lead the punter to believe.
S, could you define exactly what it is in your mind that constitutes a 
'colloid', and what constitutes a 'colloidal' product?  And does that term 
strictly apply to what is produced using LVDC, or even HVAC praps?
A 'colloid' in this instance is a collection of ions grouped together with a 
fluid layer between each ion I believe, does that make this cluster of ions a 
'colloid' by definition?  It's not a solid 'particle' as such to my knowledge.  
Definition is open to interpretation maybe?

N.

> Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2012 17:47:15 -0700
> From: mgperra...@aol.com
> To: silver-list@eskimo.com
> Subject: Re: CS>arthritis  and ppm  count
> 
> Probably though, there is a difference between ionic and colloidal.
> 

> 
> 
  

Re: CS>arthritis and ppm count

[mgperrault]

Probably though, there is a difference between ionic and colloidal.

I have a few snips from papers, sorry cant give details. In one test 
they were observing what happened to silver colloids that were aborbed 
in a liposomal cream.  silver ended up accumulating between blood 
vessels and "stuck"  in lysosomes.


In my mind, there is no clear test that shows that silver is not toxic, 
even though it appears to be only mildly toxic, but this is a common 
theme in medicine, where they continually have to lower the level of a 
substance as they find out more, like lead, pesticides, plastics...you 
name it.


when I see microphotos of silver particles in tissue, they dont "look" 
like they should be there.  I continue to use the stuff though.  Did 
anyone get a feeling of a metallic cold feeling in the extremeties?  Im 
currently wondering if this is a side effect...

---

snips;

silver and gold ended up in the kuppfer cells
reticuloendothelial
system

The phagocytosis of intact liposomes was demonstrated by the appearance 
of silver-labelled unilamellar vesicles within the cytoplasm of 
undamaged keratinocytes. The labelled liposomes were found enclosed in 
cellular unit membranes, i.e. in lysosomes. In addition, perinuclear 
disintegration and release of the entrapped marker were observed. Silver 
particles, as present in liposomally encapsulated SSD, were found to be 
adequate markers for electron microscopy. Our results confirm the 
phagocytosis of intact liposomes by keratinocytes in vitro. In addition, 
the cytotoxic effects of liposomal (intended for the treatment of burns) 
and free SSD on human keratinocytes were studied in detail. Many 
keratinocytes treated for 10 min or more were severely affected.


 Data from silver suggest that these ions denature proteins (enzymes) 
of the target cell or organism by binding to reactive groups resulting 
in their precipitation and inactivation. Silver inactivates enzymes by 
reacting with the sulfhydryl groups to form silver sulfides. Silver also 
reacts with the amino-, carboxyl-, phosphate-, and imidazole-groups and 
diminish the activities of lactate dehydrogenase and glutathione 
peroxidase. Bacteria (gram+ and gram-) are in general affected by the 
oligodynamic effect, but they can develop a heavy-metal resistance, or 
in the case of silver a silver-resistance. Virus in general are not very 
sensitive. The toxic effect is fully developed often only after a long 
time (many hours).



On 4/17/2012 4:38 PM, Alchemysa wrote:

Jared

There is absolutely no credible evidence whatsover for the claim that 
ionic silver is better than colloidal or vise versa. All the tests 
quoted by the promoters on each side are LAB TESTS IN PETRI DISHES.  
It is utterly unbelievable to project such results (achieved in a 
small perfectly controlled environment containing just a couple of 
ingredients) to what may happen in the infinitely more complicated 
chemistry and vastly larger volume of the human body.


In the human body ions may (or may not) work faster, but colloids may 
(or may not) hang around and work for longer. Which woud you prefer? 
Anyway, ions probably turn into colloids the instant they hit the 
bloodstream and particles may be continuously releasing ions! No-one 
really knows what is happening.


Theres a mountain of in vitro research proving that just about every 
form of silver kills bacteria, from hard, pure silver coatings on 
medical appliances, to unstable silver compounds of every 
description.  And frankly thats about all we really know. All the rest 
is just theory.


Sure, swallow the 'hydrosol' (its just another name for colloidal 
silver) but don't swallow the sales pitch.


David






From: Jared De la Torriente 
Date: 18 April 2012 12:45:45 AM
To: 
Subject: CS>arthritis  and ppm  count


ill like to share  a point i learned.

 My grand ma and mother in law both have  chronic fatige and 
artritis  for some time. both  have  show  pain relieve with 
taking ICS, more joint movility so  it most be  helping since all 
their regular  medication seem  to have  stop helping and  ther joint 
and movility was deteriorating.


an as far as PPM, i done   much reasearch and popular believe is  now 
amongs  savy experts that is  the IONIC content on the colloid 
solution that does  wonders for curing not the PPM or  silver 
particle  content, the  particle content does have  some mild anti 
bacterial efffects but its true strengh is the silver ions.


a  5ppm silver colloid is more or less 80% silver colloid particles 
and 20% or less ionic silver.
a  5ppm ionic/colloidal silver  is more or less 80% ionic and 20% 
silver colloid particles.
a  5ppm colloidal silver hidrosol is over 95% ionic and less than 5% 
silver colloid particles.


another way of putting  you ll need to ingest much less ML of silver 
hidrosol at 5ppm, insted of ingesting highe amount ML of a 20+PPM 
silver colloid solution to get the 

CS>arthritis and ppm count

[Alchemysa]

Jared

There is absolutely no credible evidence whatsover for the claim that  
ionic silver is better than colloidal or vise versa. All the tests  
quoted by the promoters on each side are LAB TESTS IN PETRI DISHES.   
It is utterly unbelievable to project such results (achieved in a  
small perfectly controlled environment containing just a couple of  
ingredients) to what may happen in the infinitely more complicated  
chemistry and vastly larger volume of the human body.


In the human body ions may (or may not) work faster, but colloids may  
(or may not) hang around and work for longer. Which woud you prefer?  
Anyway, ions probably turn into colloids the instant they hit the  
bloodstream and particles may be continuously releasing ions! No-one  
really knows what is happening.


Theres a mountain of in vitro research proving that just about every  
form of silver kills bacteria, from hard, pure silver coatings on  
medical appliances, to unstable silver compounds of every  
description.  And frankly thats about all we really know. All the  
rest is just theory.


Sure, swallow the 'hydrosol' (its just another name for colloidal  
silver) but don't swallow the sales pitch.


David






From: Jared De la Torriente 
Date: 18 April 2012 12:45:45 AM
To: 
Subject: CS>arthritis  and ppm  count


ill like to share  a point i learned.

 My grand ma and mother in law both have  chronic fatige and  
artritis  for some time. both  have  show  pain relieve with  
taking ICS, more joint movility so  it most be  helping since all  
their regular  medication seem  to have  stop helping and  ther  
joint and movility was deteriorating.


an as far as PPM, i done   much reasearch and popular believe is   
now amongs  savy experts that is  the IONIC content on the colloid  
solution that does  wonders for curing not the PPM or  silver  
particle  content, the  particle content does have  some mild anti  
bacterial efffects but its true strengh is the silver ions.


a  5ppm silver colloid is more or less 80% silver colloid particles  
and 20% or less ionic silver.
a  5ppm ionic/colloidal silver  is more or less 80% ionic and 20%  
silver colloid particles.
a  5ppm colloidal silver hidrosol is over 95% ionic and less than  
5% silver colloid particles.


another way of putting  you ll need to ingest much less ML of  
silver hidrosol at 5ppm, insted of ingesting highe amount ML of a 20 
+PPM silver colloid solution to get the same results. a lot much  
less is need to regain health.


High 20+PPM silver solution means more silver particles witch may  
have to big of a size that can acumulated on the body, leading to a  
possible argiria look on the skin and  nails. still efective but  
more needs to be ingested.  lower ppm  5-10PPM ionic or hidrosol  
are much better and more efective and much less needed to be  
ingested to get results.


i recently fought off salmonelosis in 1.5 days taking power doses  
of  silver hidrosol home made at 8ppm infuse with 528 hz dna repair  
and accelerated  healing.


hope this help you guys out.

NAMASTE..




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Re: CS>Tel - What PPM is your CS?

[olushola camara]

What home distiller do you use?

If one puts tap water in the ZWP, does it removes the minerals? My concern
here is for drinking. Distill water has no charge and therefore it has no
antioxidant properties, that is, negative hydrogen ions.

However this 2 step process for producing CS is great.

Olushola

On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 12:04 PM, Sam Nabors  wrote:

> home distillers can't get tap water down to 0ppm (my distilled water is
> 2ppm) so what I do is run it through a zero water pitcher(deionized water)
> first and then distill it. That gets it down to 0ppm.
>

Re: CS>Tel - What PPM is your CS?

[Asif Nathekar]

Agreed , I distill the water twice
In the first distill I allow the water to boil for at least ten minutes with 
the Condensing unit unattached so that 
Anything that has a boiling point less than the tap water would have  hopefully 
reduced significantly by then.
I found this helped a lot.





On 17 Apr 2012, at 17:04, Sam Nabors  wrote:

> home distillers can't get tap water down to 0ppm (my distilled water is 2ppm) 
> so what I do is run it through a zero water pitcher(deionized water) first 
> and then distill it. That gets it down to 0ppm.
> From: Tel Tofflemire 
> To: "silver-list@eskimo.com"  
> Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 9:49 PM
> Subject: Re: CS>Tel - What PPM is your CS?
> 
> My CS is mostly from 10 ppm to 15 ppm The higher the PPM the easier  it is to 
> dilute it with Pure Steam Distilled water, ( But be careful it will lower the 
> PPM too much if your not careful ) do it real slow and keep testing it.
>  
> Tel Tofflemire
> 
> From: David AuBuchon 
> To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
> Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 1:05 PM
> Subject: CS>Tel - What PPM is your CS?
> 
> Hi Tel,
> 
> What PPM is your CS?  As far as I know you have the cheapest price for people 
> who want to buy in gallons.  Some people who ask me don't want to mess with 
> making it, so it is good to know the alternative.  
> 
> David
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: CS>Tel - What PPM is your CS?

[Sam Nabors]

home distillers can't get tap water down to 0ppm (my distilled water is 2ppm) 
so what I do is run it through a zero water pitcher(deionized water) first and 
then distill it. That gets it down to 0ppm.


 From: Tel Tofflemire 
To: "silver-list@eskimo.com"  
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 9:49 PM
Subject: Re: CS>Tel - What PPM is your CS?
 

My CS is mostly from 10 ppm to 15 ppm The higher the PPM the easier  it is to 
dilute it with Pure Steam Distilled water, ( But be careful it will lower the 
PPM too much if your not careful ) do it real slow and keep testing it.
 
Tel Tofflemire




 From: David AuBuchon 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 1:05 PM
Subject: CS>Tel - What PPM is your CS?
 

Hi Tel,

What PPM is your CS?  As far as I know you have the cheapest price for people 
who want to buy in gallons.  Some people who ask me don't want to mess with 
making it, so it is good to know the alternative.  

David

CS>arthritis and ppm count

[Jared De la Torriente]

ill like to share  a point i learned.  My grand ma and mother in law both have  
chronic fatige and artritis  for some time. both  have  show  pain relieve 
with taking ICS, more joint movility so  it most be  helping since all their 
regular  medication seem  to have  stop helping and  ther joint and movility 
was deteriorating. an as far as PPM, i done   much reasearch and popular 
believe is  now amongs  savy experts that is  the IONIC content on the colloid 
solution that does  wonders for curing not the PPM or  silver particle  
content, the  particle content does have  some mild anti bacterial efffects but 
its true strengh is the silver ions. a  5ppm silver colloid is more or less 80% 
silver colloid particles and 20% or less ionic silver.a  5ppm ionic/colloidal 
silver  is more or less 80% ionic and 20% silver colloid particles.  a  5ppm 
colloidal silver hidrosol is over 95% ionic and less than 5% silver colloid 
particles. another way of putting  you ll need to ingest much less ML of silver 
hidrosol at 5ppm, insted of ingesting highe amount ML of a 20+PPM silver 
colloid solution to get the same results. a lot much less is need to regain 
health. High 20+PPM silver solution means more silver particles witch may have 
to big of a size that can acumulated on the body, leading to a possible argiria 
look on the skin and  nails. still efective but more needs to be ingested.  
lower ppm  5-10PPM ionic or hidrosol are much better and more efective and much 
less needed to be ingested to get results. i recently fought off salmonelosis 
in 1.5 days taking power doses of  silver hidrosol home made at 8ppm infuse 
with 528 hz dna repair and accelerated  healing. hope this help you guys out. 
NAMASTE.. 

Re: CS>Tel - What PPM is your CS?

[Tel Tofflemire]

My CS is mostly from 10 ppm to 15 ppm The higher the PPM the easier  it is to 
dilute it with Pure Steam Distilled water, ( But be careful it will lower the 
PPM too much if your not careful ) do it real slow and keep testing it.
 
Tel Tofflemire




 From: David AuBuchon 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 1:05 PM
Subject: CS>Tel - What PPM is your CS?
 

Hi Tel,

What PPM is your CS?  As far as I know you have the cheapest price for people 
who want to buy in gallons.  Some people who ask me don't want to mess with 
making it, so it is good to know the alternative.  

David

CS>high PPM EIS update

[David AuBuchon]

So I got this quart still just brrewing super slow...now it is up to about
82uS!  This may be the highest made by anyone so far.  It is taking on a
light amber color.  Not a yellow color, but an beautiful amber color like
mesosilver.  It seems that perhaps more and more fine particles are being
placed in suspension along with higher ion content!  One wonders:

1.  How high can this go!?
2.  Perhaps LVDC could make predominantly colloid suspensions if the ions
were gotten rid of some how.  It may just take a long long time to brew?
3.  Could one take colloid suspension like mesosilver and use it as a
starting point for brewing to purposely add ions?  (Not that anyone would
want to)
4.  What would happen if you added peroxide to these higher PPMs brews as
compared to adding peroxide at the PPMs we are used to?

David

RE: CS>PPM vs uS

[Neville Munn]

Nah, you didn't kick any hornets nest.
You're doing exactly what I said. The home producer NEEDS something to enable 
them to get repeatable values to aim for, and failing laboratory testing on 
many many batches ongoing, a meter is the best one can do.  I also stop around 
that 20uS reading, the reading will go down anyway for every day it sits in 
storage until a point of stabilisation has been reached.  What does that tell 
me?  It tells me that some of those Ag+ ions are being lost to ion clusters 
{particles}, so effectively I have a choice between using a solution that is 
highest in Ag+ ion content {immediately upon cessation of the brewing process} 
or I can use a lesser Ag+ ion content solution by using it anytime later after 
it's been in storage, and I believe there is a difference in efficacy between 
those two for a given usage and how it is used, i.e.; drank straight down as 
opposed to swirled under tongue for a few minutes or used on open wounds etc 
etc.
I speak for myself only but an EC or PPM meter matters not to me, they all 
provide valuable ballpark information I can use. As long as the home producer 
is *IN* that ballpark, that's the best he/she can hope for.  If meters were 
THAT inaccurate I'd be ending up with mud or something equally nasty after 
being in storage.
There's a lot of material available in the public domain, but most is just 
repeated from someone or somewhere else, and a lot of that is misinformation.  
At the end of the day the individual will be forced to make some determinations 
of their own after some time spent reading and researching as much as they can.
Colour:...I'm not fussed if it's clear or yellow, as long as it remains 
transparent I'm satisfied it's of excellent quality, despite what I've read to 
the contrary.  I sometimes end up with a coloured solution cos there are many 
reasons for that, but visual observation for any abnormalities tells me the 
product is still first class.
Chloride etc:...I'm also not satisfied that acids, peroxides, ammonias etc 
within the blood/body don't have some other effect on the product when 
ingested, and I don't personally believe anyone else does either, not enough 
information available in the public domain {opinion}.  Formation of silver 
chloride may be chemically correct, but who knows what else goes on with other 
substances within the human body/blood?
As far as I'm concerned, if you haven't got any mud/sludge, floating crap etc 
etc after days/weeks or months in storage you've got the best that can be 
produced using LVDC in the home {opinion}.
As I said earlier here, the individual will have to decide for themselves at 
some point.

Sounds to me like you're making good stuff, keep it that way and you'll be fine.
Disclaimer :...I act and speak for myself only using my own research for 
determining what constitutes an A1 product.
N.

> Subject: Re: CS>PPM vs uS
> From: asifnathe...@hotmail.com
> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 16:14:53 +
> To: silver-list@eskimo.com
> 
> I asked the question and didn't realise that I kicked the hornets nest!
> All I wanted to know is what ppm I was producing given a particular uS 
> reading!
> 
> But I have learnt a lot!
> Since I am using a very low current per area and my electrodes are very large 
> and far apart, with current control I am producing high ionic content CS ( i 
> believe) and therefore my setup will not be very representative of anything 
> typical to anyone else and so I stop when my Us says around 20us , since it 
> seems to be very stubborn to increase much after that anyways indicating its 
> done as much as it can. 
> The CS is clear and metallic tasting and very effective to myself and others.
> Since I am happy with that I will leave it to that and think no more than that
> On a side note. I used to use a much higher current 1ma per square inch  with 
> less than double distilled water and was then able to produce CS much faster 
> and could brew it high enough to produce a slightly yellow brew.
> Since I now double distill and use a very low current per square inch (0.25ma 
> per square inch) I haven't yet produced anything other than clear CS and 
> haven't even needed any mechanical stirring as I previously did. 
> Although to produce. 3 litre batch takes 48 hours! Patience is a virtue.
> Since there is no yellow tinge and with my low current setup, I am happy my 
> CS is of a good quality meaning the particles aren't large enough to absorb 
> and reflect light and filter it to make it appear yellow or otherwise( again 
> it is only my belief ). I will therefore now leave it be since its "good 
> enough".
> Thank you again for the discussion.
> And please continue educating and helping those like myself who seek 
> knowledge and 

Re: CS>PPM vs uS

[mgperrault]

I am a little confused though.   If you get a clear brew that you think 
is primarily ionic,the idea is that this immediately makes silver 
chloride in the stomach and is quickly excreted.  Silver chloride is 
perhaps not good for argyria either?  Im not clear on it yet.  Making 
silver citrate is supposed to circumvent this.  After all of the posts, 
you say your predominantly ionic brew is just what you want


thanks

mg

On 1/20/2012 1:54 PM, Asif Nathekar wrote:

Hi Tony,

I use a circuit with a LM338T in a current control configuration 
although a LM317T can also be used with exactly the same bias/control 
values (I prefer the LM338T as I have read in a few places that in 
current control application its much better behaved than the LM317T 
especially in Low current scenarios such as <2ma which is where my 
setup needs to be (also forget <1ma its pretty much useless for that - 
which is why I only use it with large silver electrodes at 1.5ma ( I 
will be migrating to a LM334Z setup ASAP due to its much vastly more 
superior characteristics especially for the home brewer, However the 
LM338T is very easy to control and bias with resisters that are easy 
to obtain - hence why my current setup is based on this)


For details see

http://users.telenet.be/davshomepage/current-source.htm

I have also used a LM334z which was very, very well behaved, when I 
wanted a travel Silver Generator for holidays, I used a flat 6 inch by 
1/4" wide electrode and 2x9 volt batteries set at 0.3 ma. Although it 
took 10 hours to produce 300ml at 18uS reading. Electrodes spaced 3 
inches apart, and no agitation.
The LM334z is exceptionally well behaved for low current and has an 
excellent voltage range!...Operates from 1V to 40V, Programmable from 
1µA to 10mA.
Although because of the resister bias values it is a real pain to 
control with resisters, my advice is to use a variable multiturn 
resister of some sort to tweak it accurately, and to include diodes to 
correct for temperature since its very sensitive to temperature.

http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm134.pdf
see page 7 for the diode temperature compensated diagram

and see below for the calculator
http://www.a-ling.net/alweb/hifi/lm334_ccs_t_calc/lm334_ccs_t.htm

I hope this helps

Peace to all

Asif.

--
From: "Tony Moody" 
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2012 7:47 PM
To: 
Subject: Re: CS>PPM vs uS


Hallo Asif,

Thank you for your detailed info. I have saved it because (I think) 
it is info that is not common
knowledge here.  What sort of current control are you using. I use a 
simple fet circuit for the
1mA setting and it seems to work very well. I'm not sure that will 
reliably turn down to .25mA

with a rod 1^2" area. Must try it soon.

Regards,
Tony Moody


On 20 Jan 2012 at 16:14, Asif Nathekar wrote about :
Subject : Re: CS>PPM vs uS


I asked the question and didn't realise that I kicked the hornets nest!
All I wanted to know is what ppm I was producing given a particular uS
reading!

But I have learnt a lot!
Since I am using a very low current per area and my electrodes are very
large and far apart, with current control I am producing high ionic
content CS ( i believe) and therefore my setup will not be very
representative of anything typical to anyone else and so I stop when 
my Us

says around 20us , since it seems to be very stubborn to increase much
after that anyways indicating its done as much as it can. The CS is 
clear
and metallic tasting and very effective to myself and others. Since 
I am
happy with that I will leave it to that and think no more than that 
On a
side note. I used to use a much higher current 1ma per square inch  
with

less than double distilled water and was then able to produce CS much
faster and could brew it high enough to produce a slightly yellow brew.
Since I now double distill and use a very low current per square inch
(0.25ma per square inch) I haven't yet produced anything other than 
clear

CS and haven't even needed any mechanical stirring as I previously did.
Although to produce. 3 litre batch takes 48 hours! Patience is a 
virtue.
Since there is no yellow tinge and with my low current setup, I am 
happy

my CS is of a good quality meaning the particles aren't large enough to
absorb and reflect light and filter it to make it appear yellow or
otherwise( again it is only my belief ). I will therefore now leave 
it be

since its "good enough". Thank you again for the discussion. And please
continue educating and helping those like myself who seek knowledge and
those who are new to all this. Peace to all Asif.


--
The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
  Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org

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Off-Topic discussi

Re: CS>PPM vs uS

[Asif Nathekar]

Hi Tony,

I use a circuit with a LM338T in a current control configuration although a 
LM317T can also be used with exactly the same bias/control values (I prefer 
the LM338T as I have read in a few places that in current control 
application its much better behaved than the LM317T especially in Low 
current scenarios such as <2ma which is where my setup needs to be (also 
forget <1ma its pretty much useless for that - which is why I only use it 
with large silver electrodes at 1.5ma ( I will be migrating to a LM334Z 
setup ASAP due to its much vastly more superior characteristics especially 
for the home brewer, However the LM338T is very easy to control and bias 
with resisters that are easy to obtain - hence why my current setup is based 
on this)


For details see

http://users.telenet.be/davshomepage/current-source.htm

I have also used a LM334z which was very, very well behaved, when I wanted a 
travel Silver Generator for holidays, I used a flat 6 inch by 1/4" wide 
electrode and 2x9 volt batteries set at 0.3 ma. Although it took 10 hours to 
produce 300ml at 18uS reading. Electrodes spaced 3 inches apart, and no 
agitation.
The LM334z is exceptionally well behaved for low current and has an 
excellent voltage range!...Operates from 1V to 40V, Programmable from 1µA to 
10mA.
Although because of the resister bias values it is a real pain to control 
with resisters, my advice is to use a variable multiturn resister of some 
sort to tweak it accurately, and to include diodes to correct for 
temperature since its very sensitive to temperature.

http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm134.pdf
see page 7 for the diode temperature compensated diagram

and see below for the calculator
http://www.a-ling.net/alweb/hifi/lm334_ccs_t_calc/lm334_ccs_t.htm

I hope this helps

Peace to all

Asif.

--
From: "Tony Moody" 
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2012 7:47 PM
To: 
Subject: Re: CS>PPM vs uS


Hallo Asif,

Thank you for your detailed info. I have saved it because (I think) it is 
info that is not common
knowledge here.  What sort of current control are you using. I use a 
simple fet circuit for the
1mA setting and it seems to work very well. I'm not sure that will 
reliably turn down to .25mA

with a rod 1^2" area. Must try it soon.

Regards,
Tony Moody


On 20 Jan 2012 at 16:14, Asif Nathekar wrote about :
Subject : Re: CS>PPM vs uS


I asked the question and didn't realise that I kicked the hornets nest!
All I wanted to know is what ppm I was producing given a particular uS
reading!

But I have learnt a lot!
Since I am using a very low current per area and my electrodes are very
large and far apart, with current control I am producing high ionic
content CS ( i believe) and therefore my setup will not be very
representative of anything typical to anyone else and so I stop when my 
Us

says around 20us , since it seems to be very stubborn to increase much
after that anyways indicating its done as much as it can. The CS is clear
and metallic tasting and very effective to myself and others. Since I am
happy with that I will leave it to that and think no more than that On a
side note. I used to use a much higher current 1ma per square inch  with
less than double distilled water and was then able to produce CS much
faster and could brew it high enough to produce a slightly yellow brew.
Since I now double distill and use a very low current per square inch
(0.25ma per square inch) I haven't yet produced anything other than clear
CS and haven't even needed any mechanical stirring as I previously did.
Although to produce. 3 litre batch takes 48 hours! Patience is a virtue.
Since there is no yellow tinge and with my low current setup, I am happy
my CS is of a good quality meaning the particles aren't large enough to
absorb and reflect light and filter it to make it appear yellow or
otherwise( again it is only my belief ). I will therefore now leave it be
since its "good enough". Thank you again for the discussion. And please
continue educating and helping those like myself who seek knowledge and
those who are new to all this. Peace to all Asif.


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The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
  Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org

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List Owner: Mike Devour <mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com>

Re: CS>PPM vs uS

[Tony Moody]

Hallo Asif,

Thank you for your detailed info. I have saved it because (I think) it is info 
that is not common 
knowledge here.  What sort of current control are you using. I use a simple fet 
circuit for the 
1mA setting and it seems to work very well. I'm not sure that will reliably 
turn down to .25mA   
with a rod 1^2" area. Must try it soon. 

Regards,
Tony Moody 


On 20 Jan 2012 at 16:14, Asif Nathekar wrote about :
Subject : Re: CS>PPM vs uS

> I asked the question and didn't realise that I kicked the hornets nest!
> All I wanted to know is what ppm I was producing given a particular uS
> reading!
> 
> But I have learnt a lot!
> Since I am using a very low current per area and my electrodes are very
> large and far apart, with current control I am producing high ionic
> content CS ( i believe) and therefore my setup will not be very
> representative of anything typical to anyone else and so I stop when my Us
> says around 20us , since it seems to be very stubborn to increase much
> after that anyways indicating its done as much as it can. The CS is clear
> and metallic tasting and very effective to myself and others. Since I am
> happy with that I will leave it to that and think no more than that On a
> side note. I used to use a much higher current 1ma per square inch  with
> less than double distilled water and was then able to produce CS much
> faster and could brew it high enough to produce a slightly yellow brew.
> Since I now double distill and use a very low current per square inch
> (0.25ma per square inch) I haven't yet produced anything other than clear
> CS and haven't even needed any mechanical stirring as I previously did.
> Although to produce. 3 litre batch takes 48 hours! Patience is a virtue.
> Since there is no yellow tinge and with my low current setup, I am happy
> my CS is of a good quality meaning the particles aren't large enough to
> absorb and reflect light and filter it to make it appear yellow or
> otherwise( again it is only my belief ). I will therefore now leave it be
> since its "good enough". Thank you again for the discussion. And please
> continue educating and helping those like myself who seek knowledge and
> those who are new to all this. Peace to all Asif.
> 
> 
> --
> The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
>   Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org
> 
> Unsubscribe:
>   <mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subjectArchives: 
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> 
> Off-Topic discussions: <mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com>
> List Owner: Mike Devour <mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com>
> 

Re: CS>PPM vs uS

[Asif Nathekar]

I asked the question and didn't realise that I kicked the hornets nest!
All I wanted to know is what ppm I was producing given a particular uS reading!

But I have learnt a lot!
Since I am using a very low current per area and my electrodes are very large 
and far apart, with current control I am producing high ionic content CS ( i 
believe) and therefore my setup will not be very representative of anything 
typical to anyone else and so I stop when my Us says around 20us , since it 
seems to be very stubborn to increase much after that anyways indicating its 
done as much as it can. 
The CS is clear and metallic tasting and very effective to myself and others.
Since I am happy with that I will leave it to that and think no more than that
On a side note. I used to use a much higher current 1ma per square inch  with 
less than double distilled water and was then able to produce CS much faster 
and could brew it high enough to produce a slightly yellow brew.
Since I now double distill and use a very low current per square inch (0.25ma 
per square inch) I haven't yet produced anything other than clear CS and 
haven't even needed any mechanical stirring as I previously did. 
Although to produce. 3 litre batch takes 48 hours! Patience is a virtue.
Since there is no yellow tinge and with my low current setup, I am happy my CS 
is of a good quality meaning the particles aren't large enough to absorb and 
reflect light and filter it to make it appear yellow or otherwise( again it is 
only my belief ). I will therefore now leave it be since its "good enough".
Thank you again for the discussion.
And please continue educating and helping those like myself who seek knowledge 
and those who are new to all this.
Peace to all
Asif.


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The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
  Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org

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Re: CS>PPM vs uS

[Tel Tofflemire]

ME TOO, GLAD WE GOT THAT OUT IN THE OPEN. NUF SAID.
TEL TOFFLEMIRE
ALBUQUERQUE, NEW  MEXICO 87114


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Off-Topic discussions: 
List Owner: Mike Devour 

RE: CS>PPM vs uS

[PTFerrance]

I'll second this.  I would miss your posts if you left.

PT

 

From: Tel Tofflemire [mailto:telt...@cableone.net] 
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 11:02 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>PPM vs uS

 

  Way to go N. It's been a while since I have read the truth--that matters.
Most blind people could make good quality CS if the truth was known.  Don't
leave the site. We need real thinkers too.

   Tel Tofflemire

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4746 - Release Date: 01/16/12

Re: CS>PPM vs uS

[Tel Tofflemire]

  Way to go N. It's been a while since I have read the truth--that  
matters.  Most blind people could make good quality CS if the truth  
was known.  Don't leave the site. We need real thinkers too.

   Tel Tofflemire

RE: CS>PPM vs uS

[Neville Munn]

Unless this List is exclusive to 'experts?' the every day EIS producer does not 
need to read more misinformation, there is plenty of that anywhere one wishes 
to look.
This List has always been above that, but I guess some get their backs up when 
some home truths are told...If the cap fits, wear it!
One *DOES NOT* need to store properly made EIS in dark storage 
containers...Myth number 1!EIS properly produced *DOES NOT* degrade over 
time...Myth number 2!Most home producers *DO NOT* use all that paraphernalia to 
produce their EIS, so what's the point of steering people toward that guff.  
Ulterior motive? .*ALL* products produced in the home 
using LVDC are the same - predominantly ionic silver solutions.*ALL* products 
produced in the home using LVDC will be at worst *EQUAL* to, and in most cases 
BETTER than anything else available if attention and diligence is applied to 
the production process and methodology.One should *NOT* have to scrape any scum 
or crud off the top of the water after production, if they do, then something 
is amiss and they'd better study up.The inference that meters are useless is 
absolute and utter hogwash.  They certainly don't come close to laboratory 
analysis I concede, but are most certainly useful in indicating an 
approximation of silver in the home produced product for the average punter to 
enable or assist them to get repeatable values to aim for in their brewing 
process.
Brewing 20 litres at a time may suit some, but most home producers on this 
planet brew far less than that, and mainly for their own usage so there is no 
need to rig up such an elaborate production facility.
I always considered this List to be open to all in learning worthwhile 
information, if not, then I won't lose any sleep if I'm booted off, I won't be 
the first and I dare say I won't be the last, but the last thing a newcomer to 
this stuff, or anyone else for that matter, needs is more of the same 
misinformation they can find anywhere else.
And if/when people don't answer it's cos I'm the only one that calls a spade a 
spade, as opposed to a 'long wooden handled digging implement'.  If I get flak 
for that, then so be it!
Adios from the uneducated truth seeker.
N.
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 16:00:03 -0600
Subject: Re: CS>PPM vs uS
From: mnels...@gmail.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com

There should be a frequently asked question and answer file with the list. 
Repeated dumb questions are annoying and don't get answered properly anyway.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 9:35 PM, Neville Munn  wrote:








Now, now, keep it civil.
Problem? Where? But I think if you whistle, I'll point.
Lot of fancy talk and misleading info in that blog.  I use far less 
paraphernalia than that, as most on this planet do, and I store my product in 
clear glass storage vessels, and mine doesn't degrade after months in storage.  
I definitely don't need to scrape anything off the surface of the water???  The 
only thing I'll concede is that I store mine in a cupboard, but apart from that 
what you produce is no better to what I produce, and that of most everyone else 
out there.

Failing a suitable response to my request for your laboratory analysis reports, 
I rest my case.
N.
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 03:03:47 +

Subject: Re: CS>PPM vs uS
From: mothman...@gmail.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com


Take your problem somewhere else


On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 2:08 AM, Neville Munn  wrote:



8-12ppm would be acceptable for *anyone* wishing to produce 10ppm in the home 
with LVDC using whatever meter they choose! 


And I was asked for considerably more than 20ml when I had my lab tests done 
using AAS.


No meter is "hopelessly inadequate" for the home producer, they are a guide to 
repeatable production levels of silver relative to the individuals methods, 
means and practices of production in the kitchen, regardless of how inaccurate 
they may be.  ANY meter is better than none for the home producer for the 
purpose of approximating silver content in what an individual is making.  Most 
home producers have not the means for laboratory analysis so what do they do?  
Stop making their own and purchase a product just because a ppm is written on 
the label?




A uS or EC meter is the best the punter can do, or a TDS meter and doubling the 
reading, how accurate does the punter need to be in the scheme of things home 
produced?


In my opinion it's this sort of information that is potentially confusing and 
misleading for the punter, and will have them thinking they *MAY?* not be 
producing a good quality product in the home without a laboratory 
analysis...which is total bunkum and balderdash!  If there is nil mud or gravel 
or other abnormalities observable in their product after days/weeks or months 
in storage, it's as good as can be made, using a meter of their choosing as a 
guide!




Could you pu

Re: CS>PPM vs uS

[marshall nelson]

There should be a frequently asked question and answer file with the list.
Repeated dumb questions are annoying and don't get answered properly anyway.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 9:35 PM, Neville Munn wrote:

>  Now, now, keep it civil.
>
> Problem? Where? But I think if you whistle, I'll point.
>
> Lot of fancy talk and misleading info in that blog.  I use far less
> paraphernalia than that, as most on this planet do, and I store my product
> in clear glass storage vessels, and mine doesn't degrade after months in
> storage.  I definitely don't need to scrape anything off the surface of the
> water???  The only thing I'll concede is that I store mine in a cupboard,
> but apart from that what you produce is no better to what I produce, and
> that of most everyone else out there.
>
> Failing a suitable response to my request for your laboratory analysis
> reports, I rest my case.
>
> N.
> ------
> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 03:03:47 +
>
> Subject: Re: CS>PPM vs uS
> From: mothman...@gmail.com
> To: silver-list@eskimo.com
>
> Take your problem somewhere else
>
> On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 2:08 AM, Neville Munn wrote:
>
>  8-12ppm would be acceptable for *anyone* wishing to produce 10ppm in the
> home with LVDC using whatever meter they choose!
>
> And I was asked for considerably more than 20ml when I had my lab tests
> done using AAS.
>
> No meter is "hopelessly inadequate" for the home producer, they are a
> guide to repeatable production levels of silver relative to the individuals
> methods, means and practices of production in the kitchen, regardless of
> how inaccurate they may be.  ANY meter is better than none for the home
> producer for the purpose of approximating silver content in what an
> individual is making.  Most home producers have not the means for
> laboratory analysis so what do they do?  Stop making their own and purchase
> a product just because a ppm is written on the label?
>
> A uS or EC meter is the best the punter can do, or a TDS meter and
> doubling the reading, how accurate does the punter need to be in the scheme
> of things home produced?
>
> In my opinion it's this sort of information that is potentially confusing
> and misleading for the punter, and will have them thinking they *MAY?* not
> be producing a good quality product in the home without a laboratory
> analysis...which is total bunkum and balderdash!  If there is nil mud or
> gravel or other abnormalities observable in their product after days/weeks
> or months in storage, it's as good as can be made, using a meter of their
> choosing as a guide!
>
> Could you put up laboratory analysis results of 5 consecutive dated batch
> samples you had tested indicating total silver content for each, and
> brewed for identical time frames?
>
> I'm the voice of an uneducated punter, humour me.
>
> N.
>
>
>
>
>

RE: CS>PPM vs uS

[Neville Munn]

Now, now, keep it civil.
Problem? Where? But I think if you whistle, I'll point.
Lot of fancy talk and misleading info in that blog.  I use far less 
paraphernalia than that, as most on this planet do, and I store my product in 
clear glass storage vessels, and mine doesn't degrade after months in storage.  
I definitely don't need to scrape anything off the surface of the water???  The 
only thing I'll concede is that I store mine in a cupboard, but apart from that 
what you produce is no better to what I produce, and that of most everyone else 
out there.
Failing a suitable response to my request for your laboratory analysis reports, 
I rest my case.
N.
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 03:03:47 +0000
Subject: Re: CS>PPM vs uS
From: mothman...@gmail.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com

Take your problem somewhere else


On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 2:08 AM, Neville Munn  wrote:



8-12ppm would be acceptable for *anyone* wishing to produce 10ppm in the home 
with LVDC using whatever meter they choose! 


And I was asked for considerably more than 20ml when I had my lab tests done 
using AAS.


No meter is "hopelessly inadequate" for the home producer, they are a guide to 
repeatable production levels of silver relative to the individuals methods, 
means and practices of production in the kitchen, regardless of how inaccurate 
they may be.  ANY meter is better than none for the home producer for the 
purpose of approximating silver content in what an individual is making.  Most 
home producers have not the means for laboratory analysis so what do they do?  
Stop making their own and purchase a product just because a ppm is written on 
the label?



A uS or EC meter is the best the punter can do, or a TDS meter and doubling the 
reading, how accurate does the punter need to be in the scheme of things home 
produced?


In my opinion it's this sort of information that is potentially confusing and 
misleading for the punter, and will have them thinking they *MAY?* not be 
producing a good quality product in the home without a laboratory 
analysis...which is total bunkum and balderdash!  If there is nil mud or gravel 
or other abnormalities observable in their product after days/weeks or months 
in storage, it's as good as can be made, using a meter of their choosing as a 
guide!



Could you put up laboratory analysis results of 5 consecutive dated batch 
samples you had tested indicating total silver content for each, and brewed for 
identical time frames?



I'm the voice of an uneducated punter, humour me.


N.






  

Re: CS>PPM vs uS

[D Glover]

Take your problem somewhere else

On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 2:08 AM, Neville Munn wrote:

>  8-12ppm would be acceptable for *anyone* wishing to produce 10ppm in the
> home with LVDC using whatever meter they choose!
>
> And I was asked for considerably more than 20ml when I had my lab tests
> done using AAS.
>
> No meter is "hopelessly inadequate" for the home producer, they are a
> guide to repeatable production levels of silver relative to the individuals
> methods, means and practices of production in the kitchen, regardless of
> how inaccurate they may be.  ANY meter is better than none for the home
> producer for the purpose of approximating silver content in what an
> individual is making.  Most home producers have not the means for
> laboratory analysis so what do they do?  Stop making their own and purchase
> a product just because a ppm is written on the label?
>
> A uS or EC meter is the best the punter can do, or a TDS meter and
> doubling the reading, how accurate does the punter need to be in the scheme
> of things home produced?
>
> In my opinion it's this sort of information that is potentially confusing
> and misleading for the punter, and will have them thinking they *MAY?* not
> be producing a good quality product in the home without a laboratory
> analysis...which is total bunkum and balderdash!  If there is nil mud or
> gravel or other abnormalities observable in their product after days/weeks
> or months in storage, it's as good as can be made, using a meter of their
> choosing as a guide!
>
> Could you put up laboratory analysis results of 5 consecutive dated batch
> samples you had tested indicating total silver content for each, and
> brewed for identical time frames?
>
> I'm the voice of an uneducated punter, humour me.
>
> N.
>
>
>
>  --
> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 00:05:13 +
>
> Subject: Re: CS>PPM vs uS
> From: mothman...@gmail.com
> To: silver-list@eskimo.com
>
>
> Hi Trem, when I read the thread I saw that uS was what was being measured,
> no mention of one of your meters was there,  so naturally assumed a TDS
> meter was being referred to. Your meter is something new to me, though I
> think my method would still be vastly more accurate.
> http://www.silvergen.com/ppm_meter.htm  If I wanted 10ppm then 12ppm or 8
> ppm would be acceptable from your meter I suppose, though my equipment was
> designed to be able to reproduce exact ppm values repeatedly, accepting a
> little wearage on the electrodes. I see your equipment will be very useful
> to measure ppm after the sol has been made, in providing a relatively
> narrow bandwidth of values to calibrate equipment with (though most
> suggestions I see for silver sol making equipment with repeatable ppm
> values, and their instructions for using it are hopelessly inadequate for
> this purpose.
> Dave
> On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 2:20 PM, MaryAnn Helland 
> wrote:
>
>  Dumb question -- is the Hanna Tester a uS meter?
> MA
>
>  --
> *From:* Trem 
> *To:* silver-list@eskimo.com
> *Sent:* Thu, January 12, 2012 7:55:17 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: CS>PPM vs uS
>
> Wrong D Glover!  uS meters are very close to spot on.  We had samples
> analyzed about ten years ago and made the correlation at that time and
> started telling about it.  We have been selling the PWT meters ever since
> for that purpose.
>
> TDS meters are not useful otfher than reading about half the PPM and not
> giving much info about the water purity.  They're the equivalent of litmus
> paper.
>
> Trem
>
>
>
>
>  - Original Message -
> *From:* D Glover 
> *To:* silver-list@eskimo.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 12, 2012 12:40 PM
> *Subject:* Re: CS>PPM vs uS
>
> Asif, don't waste your time with uS meters except for testing the purity
> of your water, as they were only designed for that purpose, and nothing
> more, they cannot in any way measure ionic content of silver sol or be used
> to infer any value for ppm of silver ions in a sol  through extrapolation
> by some mathematical means.  No matter how you play with maths you will not
> get a proper answer. Rather, standardize your method of manufacture (for
> some tips please see my essay on the manufacture of silver sols at
> Mothman777's Blog')
> Make some 20 ml specimens and submit those to a professional lab
> (university labs are cheapest), they will dissolve all the clusters of ions
> into single ions with the addition of nitric acid, then a fine vapour of
> this is aspirated under pressure into an argon plasma flame at a high
> temperature and the colour of the spectrum will tell you accurately wh

RE: CS>PPM vs uS

[Neville Munn]

8-12ppm would be acceptable for *anyone* wishing to produce 10ppm in the home 
with LVDC using whatever meter they choose!
And I was asked for considerably more than 20ml when I had my lab tests done 
using AAS.
No meter is "hopelessly inadequate" for the home producer, they are a guide to 
repeatable production levels of silver relative to the individuals methods, 
means and practices of production in the kitchen, regardless of how inaccurate 
they may be.  ANY meter is better than none for the home producer for the 
purpose of approximating silver content in what an individual is making.  Most 
home producers have not the means for laboratory analysis so what do they do?  
Stop making their own and purchase a product just because a ppm is written on 
the label?
A uS or EC meter is the best the punter can do, or a TDS meter and doubling the 
reading, how accurate does the punter need to be in the scheme of things home 
produced?
In my opinion it's this sort of information that is potentially confusing and 
misleading for the punter, and will have them thinking they *MAY?* not be 
producing a good quality product in the home without a laboratory 
analysis...which is total bunkum and balderdash!  If there is nil mud or gravel 
or other abnormalities observable in their product after days/weeks or months 
in storage, it's as good as can be made, using a meter of their choosing as a 
guide!
Could you put up laboratory analysis results of 5 consecutive dated batch 
samples you had tested indicating total silver content for each, and brewed for 
identical time frames?
I'm the voice of an uneducated punter, humour me.
N.


Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 00:05:13 +
Subject: Re: CS>PPM vs uS
From: mothman...@gmail.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com

Hi Trem, when I read the thread I saw that uS was what was being measured, no 
mention of one of your meters was there,  so naturally assumed a TDS meter was 
being referred to. Your meter is something new to me, though I think my method 
would still be vastly more accurate. 

http://www.silvergen.com/ppm_meter.htm  If I wanted 10ppm then 12ppm or 8 ppm 
would be acceptable from your meter I suppose, though my equipment was designed 
to be able to reproduce exact ppm values repeatedly, accepting a little wearage 
on the electrodes. I see your equipment will be very useful to measure ppm 
after the sol has been made, in providing a relatively narrow bandwidth of 
values to calibrate equipment with (though most suggestions I see for silver 
sol making equipment with repeatable ppm values, and their instructions for 
using it are hopelessly inadequate for this purpose.

Dave  

On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 2:20 PM, MaryAnn Helland  
wrote:




Dumb question -- is the Hanna Tester a uS meter?
MA





From: Trem 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com

Sent: Thu, January 12, 2012 7:55:17 PM 

Subject: Re: CS>PPM vs uS



Wrong D Glover!  uS meters are very close to spot on.  We had samples analyzed 
about ten years ago and made the correlation at that time and started telling 
about it.  We have been selling the PWT meters ever since for that purpose.

 
TDS meters are not useful otfher than reading about half the PPM and not giving 
much info about the water purity.  They're the equivalent of litmus paper.  
 
Trem
 
 
 


- Original Message - 
From: D Glover 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: CS>PPM vs uS


Asif, don't waste your time with uS meters except for testing the purity of 
your water, as they were only designed for that purpose, and nothing more, they 
cannot in any way measure ionic content of silver sol or be used to infer any 
value for ppm of silver ions in a sol  through extrapolation by some 
mathematical means.  No matter how you play with maths you will not get a 
proper answer. Rather, standardize your method of manufacture (for some tips 
please see my essay on the manufacture of silver sols at Mothman777's Blog')

Make some 20 ml specimens and submit those to a professional lab (university 
labs are cheapest), they will dissolve all the clusters of ions into single 
ions with the addition of nitric acid, then a fine vapour of this is aspirated 
under pressure into an argon plasma flame at a high temperature and the colour 
of the spectrum will tell you accurately what you have made, but bear in mind 
that 10 ppm might all be in a small number of a few thousand clusters (for 
example) or might be in trillions of clusters.  

 
On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Asif Nathekar  wrote:



Hi,

I have been doing some more reading which has got me looking for a resolution, 
namely what uS do you consider to roughly figure out the PPM.
I know the reason why a typical ppm or uS meter would not give a reading due to 
the ions which we do want to measure not being very measurable in terms in 
electrical conductance.

But it there a rough method to measure from the stuff tha

Re: CS>PPM vs uS

[D Glover]

Hi Trem, when I read the thread I saw that uS was what was being measured,
no mention of one of your meters was there,  so naturally assumed a TDS
meter was being referred to. Your meter is something new to me, though I
think my method would still be vastly more accurate.
http://www.silvergen.com/ppm_meter.htm  If I wanted 10ppm then 12ppm or 8
ppm would be acceptable from your meter I suppose, though my equipment was
designed to be able to reproduce exact ppm values repeatedly, accepting a
little wearage on the electrodes. I see your equipment will be very useful
to measure ppm after the sol has been made, in providing a relatively
narrow bandwidth of values to calibrate equipment with (though most
suggestions I see for silver sol making equipment with repeatable ppm
values, and their instructions for using it are hopelessly inadequate for
this purpose.
Dave
On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 2:20 PM, MaryAnn Helland wrote:

>  Dumb question -- is the Hanna Tester a uS meter?
> MA
>
>  --
> *From:* Trem 
> *To:* silver-list@eskimo.com
> *Sent:* Thu, January 12, 2012 7:55:17 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: CS>PPM vs uS
>
> Wrong D Glover!  uS meters are very close to spot on.  We had samples
> analyzed about ten years ago and made the correlation at that time and
> started telling about it.  We have been selling the PWT meters ever since
> for that purpose.
>
> TDS meters are not useful otfher than reading about half the PPM and not
> giving much info about the water purity.  They're the equivalent of litmus
> paper.
>
> Trem
>
>
>
>
>  - Original Message -
> *From:* D Glover 
> *To:* silver-list@eskimo.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 12, 2012 12:40 PM
> *Subject:* Re: CS>PPM vs uS
>
> Asif, don't waste your time with uS meters except for testing the purity
> of your water, as they were only designed for that purpose, and nothing
> more, they cannot in any way measure ionic content of silver sol or be used
> to infer any value for ppm of silver ions in a sol  through extrapolation
> by some mathematical means.  No matter how you play with maths you will not
> get a proper answer. Rather, standardize your method of manufacture (for
> some tips please see my essay on the manufacture of silver sols at
> Mothman777's Blog')
> Make some 20 ml specimens and submit those to a professional lab
> (university labs are cheapest), they will dissolve all the clusters of ions
> into single ions with the addition of nitric acid, then a fine vapour of
> this is aspirated under pressure into an argon plasma flame at a high
> temperature and the colour of the spectrum will tell you accurately what
> you have made, but bear in mind that 10 ppm might all be in a small number
> of a few thousand clusters (for example) or might be in trillions of
> clusters.
>
> On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Asif Nathekar 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have been doing some more reading which has got me looking for a
>> resolution, namely what uS do you consider to roughly figure out the PPM.
>> I know the reason why a typical ppm or uS meter would not give a reading
>> due to the ions which we do want to measure not being very measurable in
>> terms in electrical conductance.
>> But it there a rough method to measure from the stuff that does conduct.
>> What I am therefore asking is if my uS meter says 10 uS what ppm of CS
>> should I consider that to be.
>> I have so far been halving the value so  that I would have said that was
>> 5 ppm. This was from information I received from other posts.
>> Kindly help shed some light in this matter for me.
>> Cheers
>> Peace to all
>> Asif.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
>>  Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org/
>>
>>
>> Unsubscribe:
>>  <mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subjectunsubscribe>
>> Archives:
>>  http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html
>>
>> Off-Topic discussions: <mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com>
>> List Owner: Mike Devour <mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: CS>PPM vs uS

[D Glover]

Yes, I should have said whatever the name for the meter is, rather than
what it measures.

On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 9:58 PM, Dan Nave  wrote:

> I think you mean don't bother with a PWT meter.
>
> Dan
>
> On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 2:40 PM, D Glover  wrote:
> > Asif, don't waste your time with uS meters except for testing the purity
> of
> > your water, as they were only designed for that purpose, and nothing
> > more, they cannot in any way measure ionic content of silver sol or be
> used
> > to infer any value for ppm of silver ions in a sol  through
> extrapolation by
> > some mathematical means.  No matter how you play with maths you will not
> get
> > a proper answer. Rather, standardize your method of manufacture (for some
> > tips please see my essay on the manufacture of silver sols at
> Mothman777's
> > Blog')
> > Make some 20 ml specimens and submit those to a professional lab
> (university
> > labs are cheapest), they will dissolve all the clusters of ions into
> single
> > ions with the addition of nitric acid, then a fine vapour of this is
> > aspirated under pressure into an argon plasma flame at a high temperature
> > and the colour of the spectrum will tell you accurately what you have
> made,
> > but bear in mind that 10 ppm might all be in a small number of a few
> > thousand clusters (for example) or might be in trillions of clusters.
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Asif Nathekar  >
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I have been doing some more reading which has got me looking for a
> >> resolution, namely what uS do you consider to roughly figure out the
> PPM.
> >> I know the reason why a typical ppm or uS meter would not give a reading
> >> due to the ions which we do want to measure not being very measurable in
> >> terms in electrical conductance.
> >> But it there a rough method to measure from the stuff that does conduct.
> >> What I am therefore asking is if my uS meter says 10 uS what ppm of CS
> >> should I consider that to be.
> >> I have so far been halving the value so  that I would have said that
> was 5
> >> ppm. This was from information I received from other posts.
> >> Kindly help shed some light in this matter for me.
> >> Cheers
> >> Peace to all
> >> Asif.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
> >>  Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org
> >>
> >> Unsubscribe:
> >>  <mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subjectunsubscribe>
> >> Archives:
> >>  http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html
> >>
> >> Off-Topic discussions: <mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com>
> >> List Owner: Mike Devour <mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>

Re: CS>PPM vs uS

[Trem]

Ken,

Don't you mean the TDS meter halves the uS value of the solution?

Trem



- Original Message - 
From: "Ode Coyote" 

To: 
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 4:18 AM
Subject: Re: CS>PPM vs uS





  The minute power is removed from the electrodes, conductivity starts 
dropping and may drop as much as 50%
Once it has stopped dropping. then the uS number is about the same number 
as derived by a device that actually measures PPM.


A "PPM" [TDS] meter roughly doubles the uS value of the solution.

Beyond around 30 uS, PPM/TDC and EC meters become pretty much useless as 
more and more ions are forced to become non-conductive particulates in 
that super saturated media.


Ken


At 09:47 AM 1/12/2012 +, you wrote:

Hi,

I have been doing some more reading which has got me looking for a 
resolution, namely what uS do you consider to roughly figure out the PPM.
I know the reason why a typical ppm or uS meter would not give a reading 
due to the ions which we do want to measure not being very measurable in 
terms in electrical conductance.

But it there a rough method to measure from the stuff that does conduct.
What I am therefore asking is if my uS meter says 10 uS what ppm of CS 
should I consider that to be.
I have so far been halving the value so  that I would have said that was 5 
ppm. This was from information I received from other posts.

Kindly help shed some light in this matter for me.
Cheers
Peace to all
Asif.



--
The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
  Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org

Unsubscribe:
  <mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subjectsubscribe>
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List Owner: Mike Devour <mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com> 

Re: CS>PPM vs uS

[Trem]

Hanna does make TDS meters and they are identified as TDS.  The PWT meter is  
marked uS and also PWT

Trem


  - Original Message - 
  From: MaryAnn Helland 
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 6:20 AM
  Subject: Re: CS>PPM vs uS


  Dumb question -- is the Hanna Tester a uS meter?
  MA




--
  From: Trem 
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com
  Sent: Thu, January 12, 2012 7:55:17 PM
  Subject: Re: CS>PPM vs uS


  Wrong D Glover!  uS meters are very close to spot on.  We had samples 
analyzed about ten years ago and made the correlation at that time and started 
telling about it.  We have been selling the PWT meters ever since for that 
purpose.

  TDS meters are not useful otfher than reading about half the PPM and not 
giving much info about the water purity.  They're the equivalent of litmus 
paper.  

  Trem



- Original Message - 
From: D Glover 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: CS>PPM vs uS


Asif, don't waste your time with uS meters except for testing the purity of 
your water, as they were only designed for that purpose, and nothing more, they 
cannot in any way measure ionic content of silver sol or be used to infer any 
value for ppm of silver ions in a sol  through extrapolation by some 
mathematical means.  No matter how you play with maths you will not get a 
proper answer. Rather, standardize your method of manufacture (for some tips 
please see my essay on the manufacture of silver sols at Mothman777's Blog')
Make some 20 ml specimens and submit those to a professional lab 
(university labs are cheapest), they will dissolve all the clusters of ions 
into single ions with the addition of nitric acid, then a fine vapour of this 
is aspirated under pressure into an argon plasma flame at a high temperature 
and the colour of the spectrum will tell you accurately what you have made, but 
bear in mind that 10 ppm might all be in a small number of a few thousand 
clusters (for example) or might be in trillions of clusters.  

On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Asif Nathekar  
wrote:

  Hi,

  I have been doing some more reading which has got me looking for a 
resolution, namely what uS do you consider to roughly figure out the PPM.
  I know the reason why a typical ppm or uS meter would not give a reading 
due to the ions which we do want to measure not being very measurable in terms 
in electrical conductance.
  But it there a rough method to measure from the stuff that does conduct.
  What I am therefore asking is if my uS meter says 10 uS what ppm of CS 
should I consider that to be.
  I have so far been halving the value so  that I would have said that was 
5 ppm. This was from information I received from other posts.
  Kindly help shed some light in this matter for me.
  Cheers
  Peace to all
  Asif.



  --
  The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
   Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org/

  Unsubscribe:
   <mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subjectunsubscribe>
  Archives:
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  List Owner: Mike Devour <mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com>

Re: CS>PPM vs uS

[Ode Coyote]

  The minute power is removed from the electrodes, conductivity starts 
dropping and may drop as much as 50%
Once it has stopped dropping. then the uS number is about the same number 
as derived by a device that actually measures PPM.


A "PPM" [TDS] meter roughly doubles the uS value of the solution.

Beyond around 30 uS, PPM/TDC and EC meters become pretty much useless as 
more and more ions are forced to become non-conductive particulates in that 
super saturated media.


Ken


At 09:47 AM 1/12/2012 +, you wrote:

Hi,

I have been doing some more reading which has got me looking for a 
resolution, namely what uS do you consider to roughly figure out the PPM.
I know the reason why a typical ppm or uS meter would not give a reading 
due to the ions which we do want to measure not being very measurable in 
terms in electrical conductance.

But it there a rough method to measure from the stuff that does conduct.
What I am therefore asking is if my uS meter says 10 uS what ppm of CS 
should I consider that to be.
I have so far been halving the value so  that I would have said that was 5 
ppm. This was from information I received from other posts.

Kindly help shed some light in this matter for me.
Cheers
Peace to all
Asif.



--
The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
  Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org

Unsubscribe:
  <mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subjectsubscribe>
Archives:
  http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html

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List Owner: Mike Devour <mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com>

Re: CS>PPM vs uS

[MaryAnn Helland]

Dumb question -- is the Hanna Tester a uS meter?
MA





From: Trem 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Thu, January 12, 2012 7:55:17 PM
Subject: Re: CS>PPM vs uS


Wrong D Glover!  uS meters are very close to spot on.  We had samples analyzed 
about ten years ago and made the correlation at that time and started telling 
about it.  We have been selling the PWT meters ever since for that purpose.
 
TDS meters are not useful otfher than reading about half the PPM and not giving 
much info about the water purity.  They're the equivalent of litmus paper.  

 
Trem
 
 
 
- Original Message - 
>From: D Glover 
>To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
>Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 12:40 PM
>Subject: Re: CS>PPM vs uS
>
>
>Asif, don't waste your time with uS meters except for testing the purity of 
>your 
>water, as they were only designed for that purpose, and nothing more, they 
>cannot in any way measure ionic content of silver sol or be used to infer any 
>value for ppm of silver ions in a sol  through extrapolation by some 
>mathematical means.  No matter how you play with maths you will not get a 
>proper 
>answer. Rather, standardize your method of manufacture (for some tips please 
>see 
>my essay on the manufacture of silver sols at Mothman777's Blog')
>Make some 20 ml specimens and submit those to a professional lab (university 
>labs are cheapest), they will dissolve all the clusters of ions into single 
>ions 
>with the addition of nitric acid, then a fine vapour of this is aspirated 
>under 
>pressure into an argon plasma flame at a high temperature and the colour of 
>the 
>spectrum will tell you accurately what you have made, but bear in mind that 10 
>ppm might all be in a small number of a few thousand clusters (for example) or 
>might be in trillions of clusters.  
>
>
>On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Asif Nathekar  
wrote:
>
>Hi,
>>
>>I have been doing some more reading which has got me looking for a 
>>resolution, 
>>namely what uS do you consider to roughly figure out the PPM.
>>I know the reason why a typical ppm or uS meter would not give a reading due 
>>to 
>>the ions which we do want to measure not being very measurable in terms in 
>>electrical conductance.
>>But it there a rough method to measure from the stuff that does conduct.
>>What I am therefore asking is if my uS meter says 10 uS what ppm of CS should 
>>I 
>>consider that to be.
>>I have so far been halving the value so  that I would have said that was 5 
>>ppm. 
>>This was from information I received from other posts.
>>Kindly help shed some light in this matter for me.
>>Cheers
>>Peace to all
>>Asif.
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
>> Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org/
>>
>>Unsubscribe:
>> <mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subjectunsubscribe>
>>Archives:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html
>>
>>Off-Topic discussions: <mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com>
>>List Owner: Mike Devour <mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: CS>PPM vs uS

[Trem]

Wrong D Glover!  uS meters are very close to spot on.  We had samples analyzed 
about ten years ago and made the correlation at that time and started telling 
about it.  We have been selling the PWT meters ever since for that purpose.

TDS meters are not useful otfher than reading about half the PPM and not giving 
much info about the water purity.  They're the equivalent of litmus paper.  

Trem



  - Original Message - 
  From: D Glover 
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 12:40 PM
  Subject: Re: CS>PPM vs uS


  Asif, don't waste your time with uS meters except for testing the purity of 
your water, as they were only designed for that purpose, and nothing more, they 
cannot in any way measure ionic content of silver sol or be used to infer any 
value for ppm of silver ions in a sol  through extrapolation by some 
mathematical means.  No matter how you play with maths you will not get a 
proper answer. Rather, standardize your method of manufacture (for some tips 
please see my essay on the manufacture of silver sols at Mothman777's Blog')
  Make some 20 ml specimens and submit those to a professional lab (university 
labs are cheapest), they will dissolve all the clusters of ions into single 
ions with the addition of nitric acid, then a fine vapour of this is aspirated 
under pressure into an argon plasma flame at a high temperature and the colour 
of the spectrum will tell you accurately what you have made, but bear in mind 
that 10 ppm might all be in a small number of a few thousand clusters (for 
example) or might be in trillions of clusters.  

  On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Asif Nathekar  
wrote:

Hi,

I have been doing some more reading which has got me looking for a 
resolution, namely what uS do you consider to roughly figure out the PPM.
I know the reason why a typical ppm or uS meter would not give a reading 
due to the ions which we do want to measure not being very measurable in terms 
in electrical conductance.
But it there a rough method to measure from the stuff that does conduct.
What I am therefore asking is if my uS meter says 10 uS what ppm of CS 
should I consider that to be.
I have so far been halving the value so  that I would have said that was 5 
ppm. This was from information I received from other posts.
Kindly help shed some light in this matter for me.
Cheers
Peace to all
Asif.



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Re: CS>PPM vs uS

[Dan Nave]

I think you mean don't bother with a PWT meter.

Dan

On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 2:40 PM, D Glover  wrote:
> Asif, don't waste your time with uS meters except for testing the purity of
> your water, as they were only designed for that purpose, and nothing
> more, they cannot in any way measure ionic content of silver sol or be used
> to infer any value for ppm of silver ions in a sol  through extrapolation by
> some mathematical means.  No matter how you play with maths you will not get
> a proper answer. Rather, standardize your method of manufacture (for some
> tips please see my essay on the manufacture of silver sols at Mothman777's
> Blog')
> Make some 20 ml specimens and submit those to a professional lab (university
> labs are cheapest), they will dissolve all the clusters of ions into single
> ions with the addition of nitric acid, then a fine vapour of this is
> aspirated under pressure into an argon plasma flame at a high temperature
> and the colour of the spectrum will tell you accurately what you have made,
> but bear in mind that 10 ppm might all be in a small number of a few
> thousand clusters (for example) or might be in trillions of clusters.
>
> On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Asif Nathekar 
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have been doing some more reading which has got me looking for a
>> resolution, namely what uS do you consider to roughly figure out the PPM.
>> I know the reason why a typical ppm or uS meter would not give a reading
>> due to the ions which we do want to measure not being very measurable in
>> terms in electrical conductance.
>> But it there a rough method to measure from the stuff that does conduct.
>> What I am therefore asking is if my uS meter says 10 uS what ppm of CS
>> should I consider that to be.
>> I have so far been halving the value so  that I would have said that was 5
>> ppm. This was from information I received from other posts.
>> Kindly help shed some light in this matter for me.
>> Cheers
>> Peace to all
>> Asif.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
>>  Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org
>>
>> Unsubscribe:
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>

Re: CS>PPM vs uS

[D Glover]

Asif, don't waste your time with uS meters except for testing the purity of
your water, as they were only designed for that purpose, and nothing
more, they cannot in any way measure ionic content of silver sol or be used
to infer any value for ppm of silver ions in a sol  through extrapolation
by some mathematical means.  No matter how you play with maths you will not
get a proper answer. Rather, standardize your method of manufacture (for
some tips please see my essay on the manufacture of silver sols at
Mothman777's Blog')
Make some 20 ml specimens and submit those to a professional lab
(university labs are cheapest), they will dissolve all the clusters of ions
into single ions with the addition of nitric acid, then a fine vapour of
this is aspirated under pressure into an argon plasma flame at a high
temperature and the colour of the spectrum will tell you accurately what
you have made, but bear in mind that 10 ppm might all be in a small number
of a few thousand clusters (for example) or might be in trillions of
clusters.

On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Asif Nathekar wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have been doing some more reading which has got me looking for a
> resolution, namely what uS do you consider to roughly figure out the PPM.
> I know the reason why a typical ppm or uS meter would not give a reading
> due to the ions which we do want to measure not being very measurable in
> terms in electrical conductance.
> But it there a rough method to measure from the stuff that does conduct.
> What I am therefore asking is if my uS meter says 10 uS what ppm of CS
> should I consider that to be.
> I have so far been halving the value so  that I would have said that was 5
> ppm. This was from information I received from other posts.
> Kindly help shed some light in this matter for me.
> Cheers
> Peace to all
> Asif.
>
>
>
> --
> The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
>  Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org
>
> Unsubscribe:
>  <mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subjectunsubscribe>
> Archives:
>  http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html
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> List Owner: Mike Devour <mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com>
>
>
>

Re: CS>PPM vs uS

[sol]

I think it is necessary to know the uS of the distilled water you start 
with, before you can say uS can be considered the same as ppm.
But if the distilled water (tested with a Hanna PWT which I think is an 
EC meter) reads, as an example, .3 uS then I consider uS and ppm the 
same. The difference is too small to be concerned about.  If you have a 
TDS meter, then I don't know, it reads to a different scale and will not 
read below 1.0, which is not pure enough distilled water for me to get 
clear CS.

sol

Asif Nathekar wrote:

I was reading that some people were considering uS as ppm for CS
Which had me think was my 15us brew a 7/8 ppm or 15. The variance is 
large and given the discussions of high ppm recently it got me even 
more interested.







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Re: CS>PPM vs uS

[Asif Nathekar]

I wasn't thinking about the ppm to uS ratio which is calibrated on my meter 
with some type of sodium solution. Rather I am interested in uS or ppm in CS . 
So if my meter says 15uS in my CS what should I *think* it is?
I know there's is no perfect answer here given that we cannot measure the ionic 
component, but surely we can make some analogous understanding of ionic content 
from the ppm
Thanks
Peace and crunchy nut cornflakes to all!
Regards Asif.



On 12 Jan 2012, at 11:42, Neville Munn  wrote:

> Oops, back to front, variations for ppm to uS sounds better, sorry bout that. 
>  If I double the ppm reading on a TDS meter it's close enough to my uS meter. 
>  Don't need to halve a conductivity meter.  It's about milligrams of silver 
> by weight in 1 litre of water, and short of lab analysis an EC meter gives 
> rough idea of silver content.
> 
> With my EC and TDS meters I don't see any problem with a TDS meter and 
> doubling the reading, or an EC meter and just reading it as it is.  Much of a 
> muchness in the  home to me.
> 
> N.
> 
> Subject: Re: CS>PPM vs uS
> From: asifnathe...@hotmail.com
> Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 11:07:56 +
> To: silver-list@eskimo.com
> 
> I was reading that some people were considering uS as ppm for CS
> Which had me think was my 15us brew a 7/8 ppm or 15. The variance is large 
> and given the discussions of high ppm recently it got me even more interested.
> 
> 
> 
> On 12 Jan 2012, at 10:12, Neville Munn  wrote:
> 
> Several variations to uS/PPM conversions but that's near enough for me 
> without laboratory analysis.  That's all I do, just halve it, and it's close 
> enough when comparing the 3 meters I use.  In the scheme of things with home 
> produced EIS what's a ppm or three anyway?
> 
> N.
> 
> > From: asifnathe...@hotmail.com
> > Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 09:47:51 +
> > To: silver-list@eskimo.com
> > Subject: CS>PPM vs uS
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I have been doing some more reading which has got me looking for a 
> > resolution, namely what uS do you consider to roughly figure out the PPM.
> > I know the reason why a typical ppm or uS meter would not give a reading 
> > due to the ions which we do want to measure not being very measurable in 
> > terms in electrical conductance.
> > But it there a rough method to measure from the stuff that does conduct.
> > What I am therefore asking is if my uS meter says 10 uS what ppm of CS 
> > should I consider that to be.
> > I have so far been halving the value so that I would have said that was 5 
> > ppm. This was from information I received from other posts.
> > Kindly help shed some light in this matter for me.
> > Cheers
> > Peace to all
> > Asif.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
> > Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org
> > 
> > Unsubscribe:
> > <mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=subscribe>
> > Archives: 
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html
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> > List Owner: Mike Devour <mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com>
> > 
> > 

RE: CS>PPM vs uS

[Neville Munn]

Oops, back to front, variations for ppm to uS sounds better, sorry bout that.  
If I double the ppm reading on a TDS meter it's close enough to my uS meter.  
Don't need to halve a conductivity meter.  It's about milligrams of silver by 
weight in 1 litre of water, and short of lab analysis an EC meter gives rough 
idea of silver content.
With my EC and TDS meters I don't see any problem with a TDS meter and doubling 
the reading, or an EC meter and just reading it as it is.  Much of a muchness 
in the  home to me.
N.

Subject: Re: CS>PPM vs uS
From: asifnathe...@hotmail.com
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 11:07:56 +
To: silver-list@eskimo.com



I was reading that some people were considering uS as ppm for CSWhich had me 
think was my 15us brew a 7/8 ppm or 15. The variance is large and given the 
discussions of high ppm recently it got me even more interested.



On 12 Jan 2012, at 10:12, Neville Munn  wrote:





Several variations to uS/PPM conversions but that's near enough for me without 
laboratory analysis.  That's all I do, just halve it, and it's close enough 
when comparing the 3 meters I use.  In the scheme of things with home produced 
EIS what's a ppm or three anyway?
N.

> From: asifnathe...@hotmail.com
> Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 09:47:51 +0000
> To: silver-list@eskimo.com
> Subject: CS>PPM vs uS
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have been doing some more reading which has got me looking for a 
> resolution, namely what uS do you consider to roughly figure out the PPM.
> I know the reason why a typical ppm or uS meter would not give a reading due 
> to the ions which we do want to measure not being very measurable in terms in 
> electrical conductance.
> But it there a rough method to measure from the stuff that does conduct.
> What I am therefore asking is if my uS meter says 10 uS what ppm of CS should 
> I consider that to be.
> I have so far been halving the value so  that I would have said that was 5 
> ppm. This was from information I received from other posts.
> Kindly help shed some light in this matter for me.
> Cheers
> Peace to all
> Asif.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
>   Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org
> 
> Unsubscribe:
>   <mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=subscribe>
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>   http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html
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> List Owner: Mike Devour <mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com>
> 
> 
  
  

Re: CS>PPM vs uS

[Asif Nathekar]

I was reading that some people were considering uS as ppm for CS
Which had me think was my 15us brew a 7/8 ppm or 15. The variance is large and 
given the discussions of high ppm recently it got me even more interested.



On 12 Jan 2012, at 10:12, Neville Munn  wrote:

> Several variations to uS/PPM conversions but that's near enough for me 
> without laboratory analysis.  That's all I do, just halve it, and it's close 
> enough when comparing the 3 meters I use.  In the scheme of things with home 
> produced EIS what's a ppm or three anyway?
> 
> N.
> 
> > From: asifnathe...@hotmail.com
> > Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 09:47:51 +0000
> > To: silver-list@eskimo.com
> > Subject: CS>PPM vs uS
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I have been doing some more reading which has got me looking for a 
> > resolution, namely what uS do you consider to roughly figure out the PPM.
> > I know the reason why a typical ppm or uS meter would not give a reading 
> > due to the ions which we do want to measure not being very measurable in 
> > terms in electrical conductance.
> > But it there a rough method to measure from the stuff that does conduct.
> > What I am therefore asking is if my uS meter says 10 uS what ppm of CS 
> > should I consider that to be.
> > I have so far been halving the value so that I would have said that was 5 
> > ppm. This was from information I received from other posts.
> > Kindly help shed some light in this matter for me.
> > Cheers
> > Peace to all
> > Asif.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
> > Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org
> > 
> > Unsubscribe:
> > <mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=subscribe>
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> > http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html
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> > List Owner: Mike Devour <mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com>
> > 
> > 

RE: CS>PPM vs uS

[Neville Munn]

Several variations to uS/PPM conversions but that's near enough for me without 
laboratory analysis.  That's all I do, just halve it, and it's close enough 
when comparing the 3 meters I use.  In the scheme of things with home produced 
EIS what's a ppm or three anyway?
N.

> From: asifnathe...@hotmail.com
> Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 09:47:51 +
> To: silver-list@eskimo.com
> Subject: CS>PPM vs uS
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have been doing some more reading which has got me looking for a 
> resolution, namely what uS do you consider to roughly figure out the PPM.
> I know the reason why a typical ppm or uS meter would not give a reading due 
> to the ions which we do want to measure not being very measurable in terms in 
> electrical conductance.
> But it there a rough method to measure from the stuff that does conduct.
> What I am therefore asking is if my uS meter says 10 uS what ppm of CS should 
> I consider that to be.
> I have so far been halving the value so  that I would have said that was 5 
> ppm. This was from information I received from other posts.
> Kindly help shed some light in this matter for me.
> Cheers
> Peace to all
> Asif.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
>   Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org
> 
> Unsubscribe:
>   <mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=subscribe>
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>   http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html
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> List Owner: Mike Devour <mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com>
> 
> 
  

CS>PPM vs uS

[Asif Nathekar]

Hi,

I have been doing some more reading which has got me looking for a resolution, 
namely what uS do you consider to roughly figure out the PPM.
I know the reason why a typical ppm or uS meter would not give a reading due to 
the ions which we do want to measure not being very measurable in terms in 
electrical conductance.
But it there a rough method to measure from the stuff that does conduct.
What I am therefore asking is if my uS meter says 10 uS what ppm of CS should I 
consider that to be.
I have so far been halving the value so  that I would have said that was 5 ppm. 
This was from information I received from other posts.
Kindly help shed some light in this matter for me.
Cheers
Peace to all
Asif.



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Re: CS>Making 40 PPM is so simple.

[David AuBuchon]

They've been making an EIS generator since 1968???

David

On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 11:34 AM, Tel Tofflemire  wrote:

>
> On Dec 16, 2011, at 9:49 PM, Jim Holmes wrote:
>
> Hello Ted,-- (Tel)
>
>
> That looks like a great device, and at a good price.
>
> But when reading about it, I came upon this:
>
> " A micron is one billionth of a meter".  No.  A nanometer is one
> billionth.  A micron is one millionth.
> I is most surely a simple error, but does not look good on their home
> page. Surely it has not been there since 1998?
>
> How long does it take for the unit to make a gallon of 10 PPM?
> What current/voltage/phase/pulse rate etc. does the unit use?
> Do you know how he maker verifies the machine's particle size distribution?
>
> I  look forward to meeting you and visiting your shop the next time I come
> out of the wilderness and get down to ABQ.
>
>
> Jim
> Hey Jim, your welcome in my store anytime,  I know his I have a great
> tester (Hanna Pro ) and I do send in a sample of my colloidal silver to  (2
> ) Universities , U of Ohio,  and Arkansas Herbal College.  The wanted to
> know my silver maker's name, and said i was 20 PPM and very clean from any
> break down of silver . I always test my distilled water before I make CS,
> if the water has *more* than 3.0 or 2.0 undissolved PPM .  I do not use
> it for CS, I have found several from time to time that are only oo.2 or
> oo.3 ppm , wallmart was one place I got it in AZ, but Here the walmart
> Distilled is not as pure? I get it now at Smiths, (Crogger) it's ok and the
> best I can find, but around 1.3 ppm sometimes?
>
> Yes, the Colloidal Master was invented in Idaho when I lived there, By
> Steve and Pearl, of Wishgranted.com, they are now in northern Minn, I
> looked at it in 1968, but never bought one untill about 1978? When I
> started my company. QuailwoodHerbal.com
>
>   I still use it at least once a week, Never had a bit of trouble, it is
> known for it's aoutomatic shutoff, Just set it what you want and go do
> something else.  I love it and I have tried others before this one. ( I
> won't mention)
> Tel Tofflemire
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 8:25 PM, Tel Tofflemire  wrote:
>
> I Have made all my Colloidal Silver 40 p.p.m. and more for over 12 years
>> now.
>> In fact I told everyone on the list how to do it several times.
>> You use a good unit, and you make a gallon at a time, it doesn't take me
>> any longer to make a gallon than a quart with a Colloidal Master AC.
>> The best part is I de-vide the gallon of 40 or more p.p.m. into another
>> gallon jar and add more distilled water until I get what PPM I want.  Lots
>> of times I only want around 20 PPM. That is all you need for most of the
>> time.
>> By the way, I know several on the list that use the colloidal Master, and
>> are very happy with it & what it does. There made by (www.wishgranted.com
>> )
>> Tel Tofflemire
>>
>>   ------
>> *From:* Alchemysa 
>> *To:* silver-list@eskimo.com
>> *Sent:* Friday, December 16, 2011 4:49 PM
>> *Subject:* CS>Making highly ionic CS. (Was the Silvercell process)
>>
>> One other thing I forgot to metion in my previous post is that consuming
>> large amounts of high ppm CS may may not be such a good idea anyway, unless
>> you have a very good reason to do so.  Any claim that highly ionic CS
>> 'cannot cause argyria' is purely speculative.
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>> >
>> > As I said, its not that hard, but hardly worth the effort in my
>> experience.
>> >
>> > David
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
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>> The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
>> Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>