Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[sol]

Kurt Milkowski wrote:

Hey Pat,
 
Believe that lie and they'll tell you another one. Polio was on the 
decline before they started sticking people with the needles. Actually 
there was a spike in polio cases caused by the vaccines.
Plus using the wrong methods of making at least one early vaccine 
resulted in a much more virulent strain of polio virus being released 
into the populations who got that particular vaccine.
Though the author ends up sounding in favor of the polio vaccines in 
general, there is a lot of very interesting and scary history in the 
book "Polio, an American Story" I just finished reading it a week or so 
ago.

sol


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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Simon Jester]

Dan Nave, on 10/19/2007 4:42 PM, said the following:

No, I am facing reality "as it is," not how I "wish it to be."

Instead of blowing off what I wrote, you should think about it...


Sorry Mike...

Dan,

I replied to you OFF-LIST because Mike declared these topics dead.

Why did you INTENTIONALLY send this to the list?

Please respect Mike's wishes. If you want to continue it off-list - 
please don't bother, there's no point...



-Original Message-
From: Simon Jester [mailto:tansta...@libertytrek.org]
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 1:38 PM
To: Dan Nave
Subject: Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

On 10/19/2007, Dan Nave (dan.n...@nilfisk-advance.com) wrote:

There are not such things as "rights."


Speak for yourself, Danno...

There are only "agreements," and beyond that "the way things actually 
are in practice."


So you are a 'law of the jungler'...

Thats ok... I'd rather deal with your kind than the fascists...




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RE: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[John Plumridge]

Wound care...barrier function, hygiene.

--On 19 October 2007 15:35:56 -0500 Dan Nave  
wrote:



If the terrain is everything, and the microbe is nothing, why are you on
a Colloidal Silver List?



JOhn


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RE: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Dan Nave]

No, I am facing reality "as it is," not how I "wish it to be."

Instead of blowing off what I wrote, you should think about it...

Dan


-Original Message-
From: Simon Jester [mailto:tansta...@libertytrek.org]
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 1:38 PM
To: Dan Nave
Subject: Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

On 10/19/2007, Dan Nave (dan.n...@nilfisk-advance.com) wrote:
> There are not such things as "rights."

Speak for yourself, Danno...

> There are only "agreements," and beyond that "the way things actually 
> are in practice."

So you are a 'law of the jungler'...

Thats ok... I'd rather deal with your kind than the fascists...



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RE: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Dan Nave]

If the terrain is everything, and the microbe is nothing, why are you on
a Colloidal Silver List?

Dan

-Original Message-
From: Simon Jester [mailto:tansta...@libertytrek.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 10:42 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

> Great post Ode.

Amazing...

He cites a bunch of propaganda from the CDC, and you think it was a
great post?

I guess you're just too easily wowed by his talented-but-twisty
tongue...

I'll say it again...

Pasteur was a fraud...

The microbe is nothing...

The terrain is everything...

You have nothing to fear but fear itself - and your own tendency to
allow yourself to be swayed by sweet sounding words in order to escape
the responsibility for your own state of being.



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RE: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Dan Nave]

You wrote: 

"While I understand what you are saying, you are oh so very wrong - I
have every right to go out in public, whether I have the flu or not, for
one very important reason. Why? Because the only possible alternative is
to grant thugs with guns the power to both declare the rules for
determining who is and is not sick, and enforcing their whimsical
decisions arbitrarily and at the point of a gun - in essence, to
implement that same medical-fascist society that you said you had no
desire to see."
___

There are not such things as "rights."

There are only "agreements," and beyond that "the way things actually
are in practice."

Dan





-Original Message-
From: Simon Jester [mailto:tansta...@libertytrek.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 4:38 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?


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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Carol Ann]

This is if anything, this is an interesting read
http://www.amazon.com/Great-Influenza-Deadliest-Plague-History/dp/0670894737

When these types of epidemics come along they are not unlike a great tsunami or 
major hurricane sans mother nature. 
They are sudden and often without warning.  Essentially, there is one major 
problem most people face and that is the fear of death.Pre reconciliation 
of death, including ones own,  is a part of life. 

"the mark of civilization is the way it treats its' young, feeble, and
aged. You would let everyone die but the fit, healthy, lucky ones."

Contrary to what you think mother nature plays by different rules, keeps a her 
own score card and makes her own mark.  By all accounts, it was the most fit 
and healthy that were mortally stuck down by the 1918 plague. The very young, 
feeble and aged for the most part, survived. It was those with the most 
efficient immune systems that rallied the greatest physiological response to 
the virus which resulted in the immune system over reacting.  One of the 
supposedly  huge mistakes doctors made were attempts to eliminate the fevers, 
which we know now, is the bodies natural immune response. Interesting as well, 
to this day, the first thing most people do at  sign of a fever, is to run for 
an aspirin or other such suppressents. 

All scrambled attempts at vaccination failed at that time. To think that 
science will have the exact code, thus the viral antidote in advance to any new 
viral strain that causes such a plague would be akin to lottery odds. Ordinary, 
garden variety  vaccines, especially flu,  are not very different. 





Regards, Carol Ann ~ The only thing that is different is how you think..
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/archivepix.html
 __
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[John Plumridge]

--On 18 October 2007 08:30:49 -0400 Ode Coyote  wrote:


At 05:24 PM 10/16/2007 +0100, you wrote:




--On 16 October 2007 09:15:16 -0400 Ode Coyote 
wrote:


   That depends on the flu strain.
The H5N1bird flu, so far, has a 60% survival rate...IF... you have
access to a ventilator to keep you breathing.


That's the human engineered variety.


###  Nature never has surprises?
A virus never morphs using a hosts DNA?
Gee whiz!
  I did not know that humans had absolute control.



  That's about a 90% mortality rate without one and most well equipped
hospitals only have a dozen or so.

It's not that "flu" that kills you, it's a healthy bodies over response
to it that drowns you in it's own defense mechanism.
Old people with weak immune systems actually survive better.


So it is speculated. I have seen no subsatantial research on this idea.
DO  you suggest a paper?


##  Look into the existing cases and what it took to keep those folks
##  alive.  It's not a secret.


  If that one does mutate, it'll be a lot worse than the Spanish flu
  that killed millions world wide in the early 1900s.
It could, however, also mutate into harmlessness, or a flu with a 99.9%
survival rate.


If: I think it does all the time.


##  Maybe.  Or just dies out for lack of new hosts.
As I said, the flu virus strains mutate every generation due to lack of RNA 
prototype, and incorporates other Flu virus DNA.




I imagine meat eaters will kill the vulnerable young and old, if they
don't restrain themselves - in the country too.


##  Hungry vegetarians will eat anything just like anyone else.
Yes SOME would, i suppose, then they wouldn't be vegetarians. Perhaps less 
per 1000, due to different tastes, which is what I'm getting at. Our 
culture makes us hungry robots for meat along with all advertised 
food if you are not averse.



If the flu don't get you, starvation or hordes of hungry, scared and
about to be very ill people, probably will.

The vulnerable - not necessarily me.
It's not the flu that kills you, but mismanagement of flu cases: early
intervention, with fresh air is needed, not heat. Rest. A shawl might be
better, first. Then if heat is needed, radiant wood fire, with window
open. SAlt water for the passages, A flannel for fever. Body exercises
which loosen and strengthen congested areas, in the head, neck, and
shoulder, nasal, throat, chest areas. Relieves flu in a few short hours.
But there's no comparative study. Spanish flu epidemic is not a god
example, as it was engendered by vaccines, I believe.



##  Many "normal" flues will choke you up AFTER it is gone, for weeks.
  That's your own body doing it, "cleaning house"not the flu bug.
It's done, you aren't.
  Kill it fast and early, less damage to clean up. But lungs, nasal
passages and sinuses are only the tip of the systemic ice burg... a
treatment of symptoms, not causes.
Lungs etc are organs not symptoms, their optimal functioning aids recovery 
extremely fast, like one evening. BUt that's for people very much in tune. 
We don't have that superb technology , usually. Those cases are seen as 
*exceptions, and nothing is learnt from them.



Once a virus is contracted, it's too late for a vaccine and using one may
actually make it worse, piling a less harmful similar strain on top of
another, adding a merely uncomfortable defense to an up and coming deadly
defense mechanism...cleaning up twice at once...a little added to a lot.
With H5N1, it's the clean up that kills at a very high rate without help
for quite a while after the bug has succumbed to antibodies.

Yes, the poisons.


  The body does successfully kill the bug, but then the body itself,
kills itself.
  Transmission windows open before symptoms are felt, ready to go at the
first sign of a cough.
Again, optimal functioning of the organs or not, is what permits the 
contraction, and optimal funtion includes their axercise and the air 
environment. SOunds home-made and like lack-lustre technology, but it's a 
matte rof life or death, rather , isn't it?



  Tamiflu sorta works, but has a very narrow time window where it does
anything at all.  Too early or too late?...nothing.
  And there isn't nearly enough of it to go around or the people skill to
know when to use it.

  The type of cells H5N1 can now key into are deep in the lungs where
very few copies ever get to and don't become aerosolized much by
coughing.  But only a slight shift in viral structure can make eyes, nose
and throat into a viable target for attachment and replication and hence,
easy person to person transmission, shifting the dominant variant with
more available hosts.
  It has already jumped species.  So far,  it's a long jump.
It is already person to person communicable,  just not very communicable.

  THAT is what has biologists worried.  It doesn't have to make a very
big shift at all to become quite nasty.
All that's normal, nothing special, so why worry? Because they're paid to 
find a soloution: and we put our

Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Simon Jester]

An argument can be made that under the common law, if there is no 
ACTUAL damaged party, there is no crime.



The issue is potential of harm


I know - hence my comments below...


And again - if you and yours are vaccinated, WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF?


If everyone were vaccinated, your wanderings would not be a problem 
and there would be no quarantine.


Non-responsive (and illogical and untrue, as well)...

See below...

However, in any scenario where a quarantine is in force, it's because 
not everyone has been immunized, most likely, only the first responders 
who has darned well better be, or have used some other proven method to 
prevent spreading things around.


It has been proven beyond a doubt that immunized people can - and in 
fact, almost certainly WILL be - carriers. The only thing a successful 
immunization for them would accomplish is preventing THEM from getting 
sick, NOT from spreading the disease.


So, what's the difference between them, and the unvaccinated?


You've made an assumption of system perfection where none exists.


Actually I have made an assumption that the system is broken beyond repair.

If the body is in a state of health - which is NOT the same thing as 
just the absence of any obvious evidence of disease - then disease 
cannot exist. Bechamp proved this beyond a doubt, and Royal Rife 
(among others) has confirmed it.


So, YOU won't "catch" a bug, but thousands of others who have the 
improper landscape will, as you simply carry it around for them without 
developing symptoms "as" your body eliminates it.

> Good for them.

Yep - just like the emergency/quarantine workers will be doing - so 
again, what's the difference?


Can you predict what bug is going to be killed by what landscape? You're 
sure yours is perfect?  Can't tell till it's too late.


That's why I also use ozone, and CS, and now MMS - and one of a dozens 
of herbal concoctions, instead of putting blind trust in the witches 
brews cooked up by the pharmaceutical companies...


Why do you think that some people *always* get sick when some bug is 
'going around', and others *never* do. It is not because of any 
vaccine or lack - it is because the 'germs' are unable to get a 
foothold and replicate in a healthy body.



Nobody never does. [well, maybe you the superman]   Some, a lot less.
I've not met a single soul that "never" got the least bit sick.


Of course I wasn't speaking in absolute absolutes... but since that's 
the only way you can appear in your mind to score points, feel free...


The germ AND the terrain is everything, maybe... but terrain varies 
widely, as do germs, in an imperfect world.


No argument - which is why I get sick sometimes (maybe once every few 
years)...



Ideally, Rife and Mr B  may be correct, but there's no such thing as ideal.


But of course... which is why I'm here, talking to people about MMS, 
learning, and exchanging ideas - things like the 'Vick's Vapor Rub' 
trick for colds (thanks Faith!) and the Salt Pipe idea (thanks - was it 
Dee?)



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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Simon Jester]

On 10/19/2007, Ode Coyote (odecoy...@alltel.net) wrote:
If it's not "live threatening" the whole point is a moot one, flu 
or anything else.

There will be no quarantine to defy.


Then why did you say earlier that there SHOULD be?

But even if not, passing even a mild cold around is still 
irresponsible and uncaring. 


No argument there. It is company policy where I work to not come in when 
you are sick - but people sometimes do it any way. I have no problem 
with a company policy like that, because the owner of the company is 
fully within HIS Right to enforce it.



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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Simon Jester]

Ode Coyote, on 10/19/2007 5:56 AM, said the following:
Actually president shrub, just vetoed a bill that would have removed 
mercury from vaccines, What a guy.



 A lot of good bills get vetoed because they hang crap all over them.


I agree... thats why I advocate a Constitutional Amendment to require:

1. One Issue per Bill

and

2. The Bills Title must accurately reflect the subject matter and/or 
intent of the Bill


Can't take it out of the old ones, you know, and can't toss those until 
new stocks are built up...


Ok - you believe that not having enough vaccines around is more 
important than the risk of the mercury contamination, presumably since 
you don';t see a problem with it in the first place... you're consistent 
at least.



or, if something happens, there are no vaccines and people like
yourself will scream venom and rabid foam about that too.


Why would we scream about it if we have zero interest in taking them? 
Kind of a silly comment...


" I Hate all doctors and the whole field of medicine and every one in 
it...you should all be shot and hanged, so why haven't you saved me?"


Stop putting words in our mouths, Ode - its disengenuous, at best - and 
dishonest at worst.


I have repeatedly admitted that our MEdical System EXCELS when it comes 
to the treatment of TRAUMA. You, on the other hand, appear to be unable 
to separate the treatment of TRAUMA from the treatment of chronic disease.


Unless you have some real info, in context and an ability to use 
discretionary analysis, it's just mindless hate talking, isn't it?


If your premise (the above FAKE quote) were true, I'd agree...


Do you use doctors?  If so, why should they bother with you?


I would welcome their help if I was hurt in an accident of some kind.


Help those near you.   Go buy a snake bite kit.


I keep one with me at all times when hiking in the wilderness... so 
whats your point?



..and do your part, stop buying any and all medicines.


Did that a long time ago...


Drop the insurance companies.


Haven't had insurance for almost 15 years - and haven't been to a doctor 
 either... although I have been considering buying some kind of 
catastrophic coverage...



They depend on YOU to stay in business.


Umm... yeah, so?

The system certainly needs a big overhaul, but that doesn't make Devils 
and criminals out of every person in it.


No one said it did... only the ones who know better, AND are in a 
position to do something about it (like your friends with the duh-grees 
who lead secret lives)...


They have hard decisions to make every day with some severe rules to 
work under because of lawsuits from mindless inconsiderate simpleton 
haters.


If they limited their skills to areas where they were actually 
applicable - like treatment of TRAUMA - well, we wouldn't even be having 
this conversation, would we?


All you have to do is hate somebody you don't know, with absolutely no 
consideration for realities and all is well in your world.


Who/what I hate is well-defined...

YOU set those boundaries that doctors can't step out of, for fear of 
being wrong and getting crushed.

It's all YOUR fault !

Good work!


No - people who refuse to accept responsibility and accountability for 
their own health did those things...



Doctors killed 800,000 people?
Not a chance.


Far more, actually - these figures are from GOVERNMENT SOURCES - the 
CDC, etc - so why exactly do you disbelieve them?


The vast majority of those people were already as good as dead, hoping 
to be saved for next to nothing.


Right - the guy who went in for routine surgery and died because of a 
doctors mistake (wrong prescription, drug interaction, etc), or from a 
massive MRSA infection due to improper air filtration and/or hygienic 
practices - yeah, he was as good as dead.


Actually, my comment is true - he was as good as dead when he decided to 
put his trust in the system.



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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Simon Jester]

On 10/19/2007, Ode Coyote (odecoy...@alltel.net) wrote:
Must be horribly stressful to be so angry all the time...and not even 
a teenager.


The anger only lasts as long as it takes to type up the reply - which is 
only a few seconds - and it isn't really anger, more like extreme 
irritation...



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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Ode Coyote]

Ok - but you said the FLU earlier... lets stop changing gears from 1st to 
50th, and stay on point.


## If it's not "live threatening" the whole point is a moot one, flu or 
anything else.

There will be no quarantine to defy.
But even if not, passing even a mild cold around is still irresponsible and 
uncaring.



If by chance the vaccination doesn't work, at least you've taken the 
steps than can be taken to prevent transmission, vs, no steps at all...or 
anti-steps.


I have no fear of any pandemic... I know that - as long as some government 
thug doesn't come along and drag me out of my home 'for my own good' and 
away from my ozone generator and herbs and CS generator, etc - and now MMS 
- I can beat pretty much anything that comes along.


##  Very nice, but not previously stated, in context, as a condition.
"You didn't listen to what I didn't say! "
 I'm sure everyone will agree and not react when they don't know that you 
are right and everyone else wrong.



That some vaccinations might not work "as advertised" doesn't mean none 
do, at least, "something".


But my something is far better than you're something - and has no NEGATIVE 
side effects to boot.


## And is also unknown and unproven.  If you can prove it to those who 
don't know that you are not a carrier, then fine and good.
 But the game is a majority game, not an individual game and scared people 
don't tend to listen to "oddballs" [the source of anything new ].  So, good 
luck staying free of holes, deserved or not.



I'll betcha that when you see some people around you dropping like flies 
and some not, you'll be wondering why, then.


Nope - the ones that aren't dropping are most likely either like me, or 
have some natural immunity... definitely not some vaccine-immune-depressed 
zombie...


## Only the reality will tell that story, then you have to convince a lot 
of other people with short fuses who will equally believe you are a threat 
as you believe you are not.
Personally, I've been vaccinated several times and never noticed being a 
zombie, nor do I know of any. [ If I was one, would I notice? ]
 I've also had a "quarter ton" of silver amalgam  fillings since childhood 
and never noticed any ill effect.

 Such venomous blanket statements don't cover the subject of human variation.

 I do know a few folks with Autism and some that place the blame entirely 
on a vaccination..but they well could only be partially right and fixation 
on a single cause in spite of many and greater ones, is error that won't 
solve the problem.
"All" cases of Autism probably aren't caused by Mercury anyhow, but if some 
or even most are, that's reason enough to not add insult to injury in a 
judicious manner that doesn't increase risk to those not at risk...or to 
not use what's available if not doing so, is a greater risk.


Whether vaccines work or not, most people believe they do and evidence 
bears out the belief pretty well, if not absolutely.
 It takes a long time and great expense to stock pile them and just 
tossing out the old before replacing them with new, isn't an option.
There will be a period of risk assessment that might last a decade or two 
and pressure to comply. [with more difficult "outs" included, IF, there is 
no current epidemic. ]


If you attack the beliefs of a majority to introduce something new, you'll 
have to deal with the defenses you triggered, right or wrong.
You could just bypass that whole affair on pure merit, but that takes some 
"work", patience and an even temper...and something you can prove works better.
 Screaming at people about how absolutely wrong they are makes them NOT 
look and makes you look like a nutcase.
There is such a thing as "In addition to" and "complementary methods". You 
don't have to kill a neighbors mule to ride a horse and if you do, it had 
best be a fast one.

 Venom, says snake, not saviour.
just how the world works.

EIS  [CS] would be one, but telling people that all doctors are lairs and 
quacks isn't going to make it any friends...and it's not true.

If it DOES work better, all else automatically falls aside as un-needed.
 That some "establishment" people are doing the same thing, but need to do 
it in a way that makes a profit, doesn't eliminate the self helper who 
won't pay that price.
 But it does help believers who do feel a need to pay for the scientific 
expertise in leu of their own studies.


 Virtually everyone uses propaganda to sell ideas and products.  Fact of 
life.  Get over it.

 Doing the same thing only not nearly as well, won't go anywhere better.
Don't victimize yourself with ignorance.   Nobody "makes" anyone 
listen...or not listen.

 By  that token, I've never bought EIS from anyone, propaganda or not.
 I've bothered to find out that there isn't a significant difference 
between $1 a gallon and $7 an ounce of virtually the same thing.


I never said you "were" nuts,  just that you act like itparticularly 
when you insist that Ozone is absolute

Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Ode Coyote]

I suppose you think you have a right to drive drunk too, ey?


An argument can be made that under the common law, if there is no ACTUAL 
damaged party, there is no crime.


##  The issue is potential of harm


However, people do have a LIMITED right to protect themselves by enacting 
laws against behavior that exhibits a reckless disregard for the safety of 
those around them, so, no, I would not claim such a right - my Rights stop 
where yours start.


You can refuse a vaccination, but then, stay at home making it "your" 
problem and not many many other peoples problem.


And again - if you and yours are vaccinated, WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF?


##  If everyone were vaccinated, your wanderings would not be a problem and 
there would be no quarantine.
However, in any scenario where a quarantine is in force, it's because not 
everyone has been immunized, most likely, only the first responders who has 
darned well better be, or have used some other proven method to prevent 
spreading things around.

 You've made an assumption of system perfection where none exists.



THE GERM IS NOTHING - THE TERRAIN IS EVERYTHING.



terrain?  Define it.


The state of health (or lack thereof) of the body - the digestive tract, 
the eliminative and regulatory systems and organs, etc.


If the body is in a state of health - which is NOT the same thing as just 
the absence of any obvious evidence of disease - then disease cannot 
exist. Bechamp proved this beyond a doubt, and Royal Rife (among others) 
has confirmed it.


## So, YOU won't "catch" a bug, but thousands of others who have the 
improper landscape will, as you simply carry it around for them without 
developing symptoms "as" your body eliminates it.  Good for them.
Can you predict what bug is going to be killed by what landscape? You're 
sure yours is perfect?  Can't tell till it's too late.





Why do YOU think people get sick and how do they communicate that illness?


Why do you think that some people *always* get sick when some bug is 
'going around', and others *never* do. It is not because of any vaccine or 
lack - it is because the 'germs' are unable to get a foothold and 
replicate in a healthy body.


##  Nobody never does. [well, maybe you the superman]   Some, a lot less.
I've not met a single soul that "never" got the least bit sick.

The germ AND the terrain is everything, maybe...but terrain varies widely, 
as do germs, in an imperfect world.

Ideally, Rife and Mr B  may be correct, but there's no such thing as ideal.

Ode

ode




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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Ode Coyote]

At 01:21 PM 10/17/2007 -0400, you wrote:


Ode Coyote wrote:




It is interesting that the USA Polio epidemic started around the same 
time as the Spanish Flu epidemic and problematic 
vaccine...but...causation doesn't exactly add up linking Spanish Flu 
vaccines to Polio.  Smallpox vaccines to Polio?

 "Vaguely Possible"That would be quite a stretch of the imagination.

Not according to medical experts:

http://www.westonaprice.org/letters/L2001fa.html
That the smallpox vaccination caused polio in the 1940s.



A one liner with no reference to a documented connection is positive proof ?
A lot of substandard info on the whole page.
For instance:
 Smoking does not "cause" cancer, it puts conditions in place for the odds 
of developing cancerous tumors to increase and occur at a higher rate in 
some smokers.
Smoking has been linked to "higher rates of occurance", constituting an 
added risk factor, not a "cause".
 Those who have never smoked, still get cancer, but at a lower statistical 
rate at a later age...and not all that much lower at that.
 We are all getting cancer all the time.  The *cause* is error in DNA 
replication which can be *triggered* in numerous ways.

Usually, the immune system knocks it out before it becomes a problem.
 Smoking may depress that immune system as well.

 The tobacco companies were not "lying", they were hedging a hedged 
truth.  Neither side of the fight *drama* was being honest.


"That they were still using arsenic to "cure" syphilis."
Hey, it worked pretty good, and the only alternative is to not even try.
Penicillin is obviously better in retrospect, but was there any available, 
there, at that time?

It took a very long time after it was discovered, to make enough.


http://www.whale.to/vaccines/polio.html



According to that article, it was the early "Salk" POLIO vaccine that made 
for polio cases...not the "Spanish flu" vaccine which wasn't mentioned at all.
 However, no breakdown of how many cases were prevented compared to those 
that were induced.

 A better one came along later, and probably for good reason.

Rule:  You go with what you have, not what you don't have.
A six point harness is far better in a crash than a lap belt, but if you 
don't have one, a lap belt is better than nothing and not using it is just 
plain stupid.

When something better comes around, you go with that.
 That's what happened.


ode

Further, when you realize that we needed vaccination to provoke polio in 
the first place, with the first known outbreak not occurring until mass 
smallpox vaccination 100 years ago, well then you realize that avoiding 
the administration of the other vaccines almost entirely removes any 
threat of polio anyway.


Not only did the polio vaccine have nothing to do with the decline of 
paralytic polio (or polio in general), evidence shows that vaccinations 
for this and other diseases, notably diptheria, triple antigen (diptheria, 
pertussis and tetanus) and smallpox - were responsible for its increase. 
The decline of cases not caused by vaccination began to disappear in the 
West with improvements in hygiene and sanitation and most of the decline 
occurred well before the widespread use of polio vaccination.


http://www.vran.org/vaccines/polio/vaccine-pol.htm
Around the turn of the 20th century, people began reporting paralytic 
illness after smallpox vaccination. ^(15) By the 1920s, infantile 
paralysis (later renamed polio) began to emerge as an important new 
disease that often afflicted the limb that had been vaccinated. And later, 
when typhoid vaccine, then diphtheria, tetanus vaccines and pertussis 
vaccines gained widespread use, illness and paralytic episodes following 
vaccination became common knowledge. Provocation polio is a well known 
phenomenon precipitated by "diverse factors that provoke or increase the 
severity of polio in its victims, or localize it to a certain section in 
the nervous system." Some of these factors included: vaccination, trauma, 
tonsillectomies, pertussis vaccines, and the injection of numerous 
substances such as cortisone, bismuth, guanine and penicillin. ^(9)

Polio vaccines to anything else?...not a chance.


How do you know so much more than the experts?  Check this out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OPV_AIDS_hypothesis

According to the *oral polio vaccine (OPVA) AIDS hypothesis*, the AIDS 
 pandemic 
 originated from live polio 
vaccines  prepared in 
chimpanzee  tissue cultures which 
were administered to up to one million Africans between 1957 
 and 1960 
. The specific populations were the 
first in the world to experience HIV-1 infections and AIDS some five years 
later.


In particular the experimental oral vaccine, called CHAT-1, is claimed to 
have been contaminated with

Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Ode Coyote]

 A lot of good bills get vetoed because they hang crap all over them.
So, exactly what all was in that bill, other than no longer using mercury 
in new vaccines?
 Can't take it out of the old ones, you know, and can't toss those until 
new stocks are built up...or, if something happens, there are no vaccines 
and people like yourself will scream venom and rabid foam about that too.


" I Hate all doctors and the whole field of medicine and every one in 
it...you should all be shot and hanged, so why haven't you saved me?"


Unless you have some real info, in context and an ability to use 
discretionary analysis, it's just mindless hate talking, isn't it?


Do you use doctors?  If so, why should they bother with you?
Help those near you.   Go buy a snake bite kit.

..and do your part, stop buying any and all medicines.
Drop the insurance companies.
They depend on YOU to stay in business.

The system certainly needs a big overhaul, but that doesn't make Devils and 
criminals out of every person in it.
They have hard decisions to make every day with some severe rules to work 
under because of lawsuits from mindless inconsiderate simpleton haters.
All you have to do is hate somebody you don't know, with absolutely no 
consideration for realities and all is well in your world.


YOU set those boundaries that doctors can't step out of,  for fear of being 
wrong and getting crushed.

It's all YOUR fault !

Good work!

Doctors killed 800,000 people?
 Not a chance.
 The vast majority of  those people were already as good as dead, hoping 
to be saved for next to nothing.
OOPS, not the infallible Gods they demanded we be...just other people doing 
a tough job with the best of intentions, to the best of their still limited 
ability, while being spit on...with a great big paper towel bill to wipe it 
off.


My respect for the institution has been dramatically increased, by Kurt and 
Simon.

 Now I understand the establishments position a lot better.
And if they charge more and do less, I now know why.
Self defense.

Well, don't go a blow a gasket, Dude...you might need a doctor...and you'll 
hate him for your being sick the whole time he's trying to patch you up.


What you really hate, is your own dependency and helplessness.
your own fear of death.
..the fact that you don't know what to do and HAVEN'T spent years of 
sleepless nights studying.


Go fix yourself,  then it's all on YOUR head and you can hate the RIGHT 
person if you fail.


Ode

At 02:34 PM 10/16/2007 -0700, you wrote:

Actually president shrub, just vetoed a bill that would have removed 
mercury from vaccines, What a guy.


Kurt




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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Ode Coyote]

Yeah, really 'cool'... Ode, you just lost any shred of credibility you may 
have had...


And you, Simon, are incredible.
Must be horribly stressful to be so angry all the time...and not even a 
teenager.


Very glad not to be there.

ode




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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[John Plumridge]

Hi Ode,


breifly, about microsocpes, we can only get incomplete knowledge, and all 
of it unnecessary to know how to live healthily or to find suitable healing 
conditions. SUch knowledge only blunts our senses, and because of that our 
immune system, which needs our full senses to work efficiently.


The microscope knowledge is a snapshot, and relies upon theory, most of 
that misleading and vain. WHere there is some good work (e.g. Bechamp - 
please do read him), the result is to advise good healthy living both to 
prevent and to recover from disease, and not fancy interventions.


TRo go the microscope way, assumes we can improve upon what we have without 
them. But we still use our eyes and brains. There are always more and more 
subtle levels, way beyond the conventional microscope. WHilst these 
processes work, they are subordinate to conscious intelligence and action 
in the world of naturally presented elements, natural living and foods. 
What I mean to say is, that whilst material processes and chi have their 
own approximate laws, or levels of stability and rules of fluidity, it's 
the way we live which governs them all. Not the other way round...both as 
the cause of our ailments and the cures.



Take water, there are many kinds and the ancients determined this without 
microscopes. It is they who alerted us to silver, and every good medical 
ruse.
You may call cs nano-technology, I don't. The electrical invention doesn't 
need a microscope, either. But better would be the unpolluted waters 
containing silver, I think, as well as silver in our soils.



JOhn

(still no mouse..sorry for uncut post)


--On 18 October 2007 05:43:19 -0400 Ode Coyote  wrote:


At 04:55 PM 10/16/2007 +0100, you wrote:




--On 16 October 2007 07:38:00 -0400 Ode Coyote 
wrote:




  Silver IS being rediscovered in more effective forms as
  nano-technology and ion exchange technology are better understood
though progression of discovery.
  You haven't noticed how many products it's being used in lately?
The list is a long one.

Even the "Pharm" is catching on.

That was the example hinted at for my suggestion of rediscovery as
opposed  to progressive discovery.


As of around 5 years ago, a pharm research department head friend of
mine was working on metallic nano particles.
That's all he would say.

Might have been touched off by a CS generator gift a year earlier.
I don't know, but he got pretty quiet after that.

  They aren't all  "turkeys" , you know.
You'd be surprised at how 'cool' some of these guys are,  just under the
lab coats, nearly incomprehensible back deck  barbecue party
conversations and triple PHD exteriors.


I'll bet my boots they got their ideas from alternative/complimentary
users like people on this list, and some press reports of the fact, plus
the problems of mms and the soloution of silver offered by certain
companies using silver for linings in long-life products.
What medical reseachers study is all politically driven. 'Cool' I'm sure
phd students are - they study cool and wear it like a uniform. Speak
cool,  I don't think so...barbecue parity conversation isn't so free
where you  hear the name of university colleges.. They are usually five
years behind  free thinkers who also try to solve imaginary problems.
Of course some are naturally intelligent,  and wear what they like in a
nice way, like shirts instead of T-shirts.  It is true, I suppose, phd
students, though dressed uninterestingly, are beginning to break a
little  from student conformity, into adult conformity.

But Cool is dead now. The re-birth of cool, would be the re-emergence of
the unpaid politically-free 'Gentleman Scholar'. Like yourself.
Couldn't  be less interested in nano-technology, or anything to do with
microscopes  myself. Another disaster for the human race, before we
just live.  Seriously unnecessary  toys for  people who seriously insist
on missing  things with the scope of intelligence and the human eye.


JOhn.


##  I don't understand how looking closer can be "bad".
Blundered into or studied scientifically, Colloidal Silver IS
nano-technology.
  Study doesn't change that.
If I had those microscopes, I'd sure be using them.
  Granted, there are directions these guy have to go in..it's their job
to find what the boss wants them to look for, but they do some things on
the side in those labs that would rock your opinions of them.
Some, are stuffed shirts, to be sure, but some are wearing two or more
shirts that are quite subversive.
If I hadn't known them personally for 35 years, I'd never know and never
hear what they really do when no one is looking, or hear what independent
paths are being taken on the sly, discussed around the Barbie and beer.
While looking close, other things pop up that don't fit the plan and
can't be used...but it's there and not forgotten or dismissed.
People are people and none can be pigeon holed.  You just never know
what's just behind the appearances projected.
Cool, [open minded and

Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Simon Jester]

On 10/18/2007, John Plumridge (bollyb...@yahoo.co.uk) wrote:
To be fair, SImon is not knocking, or discussing CS knowledge, but 
it's uptake by the pharmacology industry and students.


SO in that way, he is not knocking Ode's credibility on that. Perhaps 
he is challenging, and incensed, with the dismissive attitude to 
wards those who do not accept that they should be shot for refusing 
to go along with a medical theory (vaccination) and it's practice. 
About this subject, I don't think CS knoweldge is the same: it 
requires reading of the alternative evidence first of the theory and 
practice of vaccination. 


Wow - someone actually read the words I wrote... thanks John :)


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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[John Plumridge]

--On 17 October 2007 19:26:00 -0400 Mark Siepak  
wrote:



the first known outbreak not occurring until mass

smallpox vaccination 100 years ago

Ever thought that the people getting polio in that outbreak might have,
in pre-vaccination times, die from smallpox before they had a chance to
develop polio?


THat's irrational - you're suggesting everyone died of smallpox at a young 
age!




Sort of like cancer is so prevalent now.

Now that people live past 37 years old, that is

ANother myth: people only lived shorter lives in the bad new industrial 
times.

Prior to that, if they lived past infant age they lived longer on average.



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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[John Plumridge]

Sounds like placebo working in the other half.

--On 17 October 2007 02:54:40 -0700 Carol Ann  
wrote:



FLU SHOTS: THEY DON'T PROTECT THE ELDERLY, NEW DATA REVEALS
Flu shots for the elderly are far less effective than doctors like to
 tell us. In fact, they are incapable of preventing up to half of all
 deaths from influenza and pneumonia in the elderly, new data suggests.
 Despite this, governments continue to spend millions of dollars on
 ineffective vaccines and mislead the public.
http://healthy. net/scr/news. asp?id=9445

Kurt Milkowski  wrote:


You'd be surprised at how 'cool' some of these guys are,  just under

the lab coats, nearly incomprehensible back deck  barbecue party
conversations and triple PHD exteriors


No hookers to go along with the barbeques? It would help ease thier minds
as they develope new ways to kill people.

Kurt


Simon Jester  wrote:


Maybe not turkeys - but definitely COWARDS. If even a SMALL number of
these people would stand up to the tyranny, the big pharmas house of
cards would come tumbling down around their heads - and many, many people
would end up in jail - and if I had my druthers, on DEATH ROW -
for their crimes against humanity.






Regards, Carol Ann ~ The only thing that is different is how you think..
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/archivepix.html

 __
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com





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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[John Plumridge]

To be fair, SImon is not knocking, or discussing CS knowledge, but it's 
uptake by the pharmacology industry and students.


SO in that way, he is not knocking Ode's credibility on that. Perhaps he is 
challenging, and incensed, with the dismissive attitude to wards those who 
do not accept that they should be shot for refusing to go along with a 
medical theory (vaccination) and it's practice. About this subject, I don't 
think CS knoweldge is the same: it requires reading of the alternative 
evidence first of the theory and practice of vaccination.


JOhn

--On 17 October 2007 01:34:45 +0200 Richard  wrote:


Simon , why are you attacking Ode´s credibility  and attempting to be
clever? Ode knows a lot more about CS than you, he certainly writes a lot
better than you and his Silver puppy generators are the best on the
market . Are you really " a simple minded peasant " or is that just a
giant chip on your shoulder? have a nice day - Richard
On 16/10/2007, at 19:57, Simon Jester wrote:


Silver IS being rediscovered in more effective forms as nano-
technology and ion exchange technology are better understood
though progression of discovery.
You haven't noticed how many products it's being used in lately?
The list is a long one.
Even the "Pharm" is catching on.


Sp, we should just bow down and worship at the altar of big pharm
because they have deigned to acknowledge something that some of us
simple-minded peasants have known for many many years?


As of around 5 years ago, a pharm research department head friend
of mine was working on metallic nano particles.
That's all he would say.


Ahh... some explanation for your attitude at last. Begone,
herr medical-fascist.


Might have been touched off by a CS generator gift a year earlier.
I don't know, but he got pretty quiet after that.
They aren't all "turkeys" , you know.


Maybe not turkeys - but definitely COWARDS. If even a SMALL number
of these people would stand up to the tyranny, the big pharmas
house of cards would come tumbling down around their heads - and
many, many people would end up in jail - and if I had my druthers,
on DEATH ROW - for their crimes against humanity.


You'd be surprised at how 'cool' some of these guys are,  just
under the lab coats, nearly incomprehensible back deck  barbecue
party conversations and triple PHD exteriors.


Yeah, really 'cool'... Ode, you just lost any shred of credibility
you may have had...


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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Kurt Milkowski]

My guess would be the same assholes that load the webmd site.
   
  Kurt

"T. J. Garland"  wrote:
  ODE, who do you think puts the info on Wikipedia? More MSM bullshit.
- Original Message - 
From: "Ode Coyote" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?


> Regardless of unproven "bullshit", Does any transport person have the 
> right to be a disease carrier?
>
> You are saying that the smallpox vaccine hasn't eliminated smallpox?
> ..That cowpox antibodies don't immunize from smallpox?
>
> Which vaccines work and which don't and that some vaccines may be harmful 
> to some people for different reasons, may be questionable, but the whole 
> field of vaccination is pretty much an over all proven success with 
> centuries of experience to back it up.
>
> Smallpox inoculation was started 
> in India or 
> China before 200 
> BC.[1] In 
> 1718, 
> Lady Mary Wortley 
> Montague reported that the Turks have 
> a habit of deliberately inoculating themselves with fluid taken from mild 
> cases of smallpox and she inoculated her own 
> children.[2] 
> In 1796 
> Edward Jenner inoculated using 
> cowpox (a mild relative of the deadly 
> smallpox virus). Pasteur and others 
> built on this
>
> Ode
>
> At 02:38 PM 10/11/2007 -0400, you wrote:
>
>>>I don't think they can force you to take a vaccine, but they can 
>>>constitutionally en force a quarantine.
>>
>>No, they can't - but they can UNconstitutinally enforce one.
>>
>>>If you aren't vaccinated, you disqualify yourself from being an enforcer 
>>>or having any part in a transport operation, becoming a potential part of 
>>>the problem vs part of any solution.
>>
>>? Vaccines simply DON'T WORK. It appears you have fallen for the FUD?
>>
>>>No job and rightly so, but not force, just choice. Work safe or stay at 
>>>home.
>>
>>Bullshit... sorry, Ode, but this is ridiculous. No one has the 'Right' to 
>>force someone to do something so ridiculous in order to keep a job. 
>>Vaccines are one of the big cons - right up there with the income tax and 
>>drivers licenses.
>>
>>>A vaccine costs everyone a lot less than a quarantine,
>>
>>More bullshit. A vaccine won't prevent diddly.
>>
>>
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>>
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>>
>>
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>>
>>
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> 

Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Clayton Family]

This is what I mean when I say that we don't know all the laws that 
govern this world. Just because something does not fit the model, means 
maybe the model is not good enough, so go back and look at that. If it 
is good enough for the use it is intended for, then ok, the model can 
be used, but the unusual events are there, written down, filed away for 
future ref. Then when eventually, we get more info, or other events 
like it, we can maybe figure it out.


On Oct 18, 2007, at 4:43 AM, Ode Coyote wrote:


While looking close, other things pop up that don't fit the plan and 
can't be used...but it's there and not forgotten or dismissed.



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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Marshall Dudley]

Simon Jester wrote:

Just like a drug test, which is an absolute invasion of privacy, your
employer can probably require that you do this if you are going to 
work there. Your employer can basically fire you for anything except

those things that are specifically prohibited such as certain kinds
of discrimination.

I'm not saying this is fair or right.  I'm saying this is the way it
is...


A private, non-corporate 'employer' is free to do whatever he/she 
wants - hire and fire anyone they want, anytime they want, for any 
reason they want. Problem is, truly private 'employers' are rae these 
days.


Actually that is not true.  Any employer, corporate or not, firing, or 
even refusing to hire, a person because of race, color, religion, sexual 
orientation (especially if the employee is gay), handicap, or 
nationality can be sued for huge amounts, and even prosecuted 
criminally.  The fourth episode of season 3 of Boston Legal actually had 
a show on this when a budding lawyer fired another lawyer because he was 
a Scientologist.  You are correct it is much worse for large 
corporations.  Exxon was legally prevented from firing a drunkard 
captain, because it was classified as a disability, which then wrecked 
the Valdez, and ended up being fined and sued for not firing him.


Marshall


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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[T. J. Garland]

ODE, who do you think puts the info on Wikipedia?  More MSM bullshit.
- Original Message - 
From: "Ode Coyote" 

To: 
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?


  Regardless of unproven "bullshit", Does any transport person have the 
right to be a disease carrier?


You are saying that the smallpox vaccine hasn't eliminated smallpox?
..That cowpox antibodies don't immunize from smallpox?

 Which vaccines work and which don't and that some vaccines may be harmful 
to some people for different reasons, may be questionable,  but the whole 
field of vaccination is pretty much an over all proven success with 
centuries of experience to back it up.


Smallpox <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inoculation>inoculation was started 
in <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India>India or 
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China>China before 200 
BC.<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination#_note-0>[1] In 
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1718>1718, 
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Mary_Wortley_Montague>Lady Mary Wortley 
Montague reported that the <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey>Turks have 
a habit of deliberately inoculating themselves with fluid taken from mild 
cases of smallpox and she inoculated her own 
children.<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination#_note-Behbehani_1983>[2] 
In <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1796>1796 
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Jenner>Edward Jenner inoculated using 
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowpox>cowpox (a mild relative of the deadly 
smallpox virus). <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasteur>Pasteur and others 
built on this


Ode

At 02:38 PM 10/11/2007 -0400, you wrote:

I don't think they can force you to take a vaccine, but they can 
constitutionally en force a quarantine.


No, they can't - but they can UNconstitutinally enforce one.

If you aren't vaccinated, you disqualify yourself from being an enforcer 
or having any part in a transport operation, becoming a potential part of 
the problem vs part of any solution.


? Vaccines simply DON'T WORK. It appears you have fallen for the FUD?

No job and rightly so, but not force, just choice.  Work safe or stay at 
home.


Bullshit... sorry, Ode, but this is ridiculous. No one has the 'Right' to 
force someone to do something so ridiculous in order to keep a job. 
Vaccines are one of the big cons - right up there with the income tax and 
drivers licenses.



A vaccine costs everyone a lot less than a quarantine,


More bullshit. A vaccine won't prevent diddly.


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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Ode Coyote]

At 05:24 PM 10/16/2007 +0100, you wrote:




--On 16 October 2007 09:15:16 -0400 Ode Coyote  wrote:


   That depends on the flu strain.
The H5N1bird flu, so far, has a 60% survival rate...IF... you have access
to a ventilator to keep you breathing.


That's the human engineered variety.


###  Nature never has surprises?
A virus never morphs using a hosts DNA?
Gee whiz!
 I did not know that humans had absolute control.



  That's about a 90% mortality rate without one and most well equipped
hospitals only have a dozen or so.

It's not that "flu" that kills you, it's a healthy bodies over response
to it that drowns you in it's own defense mechanism.
Old people with weak immune systems actually survive better.


So it is speculated. I have seen no subsatantial research on this idea. DO 
you suggest a paper?


##  Look into the existing cases and what it took to keep those folks 
alive.  It's not a secret.



  If that one does mutate, it'll be a lot worse than the Spanish flu that
killed millions world wide in the early 1900s.
It could, however, also mutate into harmlessness, or a flu with a 99.9%
survival rate.


If: I think it does all the time.


##  Maybe.  Or just dies out for lack of new hosts.


I imagine meat eaters will kill the vulnerable young and old, if they 
don't restrain themselves - in the country too.


##  Hungry vegetarians will eat anything just like anyone else.



If the flu don't get you, starvation or hordes of hungry, scared and
about to be very ill people, probably will.

The vulnerable - not necessarily me.
It's not the flu that kills you, but mismanagement of flu cases: early 
intervention, with fresh air is needed, not heat. Rest. A shawl might be 
better, first. Then if heat is needed, radiant wood fire, with window 
open. SAlt water for the passages, A flannel for fever. Body exercises 
which loosen and strengthen congested areas, in the head, neck, and 
shoulder, nasal, throat, chest areas. Relieves flu in a few short hours. 
But there's no comparative study. Spanish flu epidemic is not a god 
example, as it was engendered by vaccines, I believe.



##  Many "normal" flues will choke you up AFTER it is gone, for weeks.
 That's your own body doing it, "cleaning house"not the flu bug.  It's 
done, you aren't.
 Kill it fast and early, less damage to clean up. But lungs, nasal 
passages and sinuses are only the tip of the systemic ice burg... a 
treatment of symptoms, not causes.
Once a virus is contracted, it's too late for a vaccine and using one may 
actually make it worse, piling a less harmful similar strain on top of 
another, adding a merely uncomfortable defense to an up and coming deadly 
defense mechanism...cleaning up twice at once...a little added to a lot.
With H5N1, it's the clean up that kills at a very high rate without help 
for quite a while after the bug has succumbed to antibodies.
 The body does successfully kill the bug, but then the body itself, kills 
itself.
 Transmission windows open before symptoms are felt, ready to go at the 
first sign of a cough.


 Tamiflu sorta works, but has a very narrow time window where it does 
anything at all.  Too early or too late?...nothing.
 And there isn't nearly enough of it to go around or the people skill to 
know when to use it.


 The type of cells H5N1 can now key into are deep in the lungs where very 
few copies ever get to and don't become aerosolized much by coughing.  But 
only a slight shift in viral structure can make eyes, nose and throat into 
a viable target for attachment and replication and hence, easy person to 
person transmission, shifting the dominant variant with more available hosts.

 It has already jumped species.  So far,  it's a long jump.
It is already person to person communicable,  just not very communicable.

 THAT is what has biologists worried.  It doesn't have to make a very big 
shift at all to become quite nasty.


A virus uses the persons own DNA to adapt and every time it finds a new 
host, it tries to adapt to the next type of cells using the last type as a 
springboard pattern, each replication just a little different, using the 
DNA from the next type it infected in a single host,  till it finds the 
right key for the next transmission lock.
That's a billion to one chance, maybebut with a ten trillion tries per 
case, could very easily happen.
 That's "probably will"  "MIGHT not"  odds...with a decent chance of 
catching it in the act with very close observation.


PLUS, less likely odds of a direct bird to human variant transmission key 
popping up as more and more  birds fall ill.


That part of the game is like playing "Whack a Mole", with migrating flying 
moles.  Absolute unpredictability, anywhere, anywhen...low odds, but 
uncontrollable numbers of tries.


I thought it was all "scare" too...till I looked closer.

 Turns out:
 "They" are scared silly and have good reason to be.
 Governments want to deny problems as much as anyoneand they aren't 
denying this 

Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Ode Coyote]

At 04:55 PM 10/16/2007 +0100, you wrote:




--On 16 October 2007 07:38:00 -0400 Ode Coyote  wrote:




  Silver IS being rediscovered in more effective forms as nano-technology
and ion exchange technology are better understood though progression of
discovery.
  You haven't noticed how many products it's being used in lately?
The list is a long one.

Even the "Pharm" is catching on.
That was the example hinted at for my suggestion of rediscovery as opposed 
to progressive discovery.



As of around 5 years ago, a pharm research department head friend of mine
was working on metallic nano particles.
That's all he would say.

Might have been touched off by a CS generator gift a year earlier.
I don't know, but he got pretty quiet after that.

  They aren't all  "turkeys" , you know.
You'd be surprised at how 'cool' some of these guys are,  just under the
lab coats, nearly incomprehensible back deck  barbecue party
conversations and triple PHD exteriors.


I'll bet my boots they got their ideas from alternative/complimentary 
users like people on this list, and some press reports of the fact, plus 
the problems of mms and the soloution of silver offered by certain 
companies using silver for linings in long-life products.
What medical reseachers study is all politically driven. 'Cool' I'm sure 
phd students are - they study cool and wear it like a uniform. Speak cool, 
I don't think so...barbecue parity conversation isn't so free where you 
hear the name of university colleges.. They are usually five years behind 
free thinkers who also try to solve imaginary problems.
Of course some are naturally intelligent,  and wear what they like in a 
nice way, like shirts instead of T-shirts.  It is true, I suppose, phd 
students, though dressed uninterestingly, are beginning to break a little 
from student conformity, into adult conformity.


But Cool is dead now. The re-birth of cool, would be the re-emergence of 
the unpaid politically-free 'Gentleman Scholar'. Like yourself.  Couldn't 
be less interested in nano-technology, or anything to do with microscopes 
myself. Another disaster for the human race, before we  just live. 
Seriously unnecessary  toys for  people who seriously insist on missing 
things with the scope of intelligence and the human eye. 


JOhn.


##  I don't understand how looking closer can be "bad".
Blundered into or studied scientifically, Colloidal Silver IS nano-technology.
 Study doesn't change that.
If I had those microscopes, I'd sure be using them.
 Granted, there are directions these guy have to go in..it's their job to 
find what the boss wants them to look for, but they do some things on the 
side in those labs that would rock your opinions of them.
Some, are stuffed shirts, to be sure, but some are wearing two or more 
shirts that are quite subversive.
If I hadn't known them personally for 35 years, I'd never know and never 
hear what they really do when no one is looking, or hear what independent 
paths are being taken on the sly, discussed around the Barbie and beer.
While looking close, other things pop up that don't fit the plan and can't 
be used...but it's there and not forgotten or dismissed.
People are people and none can be pigeon holed.  You just never know what's 
just behind the appearances projected.
Cool, [open minded and adventurous ] before becoming scientists and not 
lost after...just hidden away from "the man".
I've often been wrong about "pillars of society" after discovering their 
foundations in quiet trusted private...what they "really" believe, have 
seen and think about under societies demanded "professional" polished suit 
and tie surface.


I know a few PHDs that have private lives that would just blow you 
awaysome "alien contactees" working for the UN and , alt practitioners 
at home, toe the line scientists at work.
Preachers who have very different experiences guiding them, than what they 
sermonize about on Sunday.  They can talk freely to the non-flock who can 
keep a quiet secret.

I'll never name or expose them in any way and they know it.

"Bullshitters" tend to be loud and myopic, suit or no suit.

Ode



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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Ode Coyote]

 The H5N1 kills those with healthy immune systems and spares those with 
weak ones.

 It's the immune system that causes death, not the virus.
It's not the normal flu.

ode

At 01:19 PM 10/16/2007 -0400, you wrote:


Hey, flus do kill.


Only  those with a sufficiently weakened immunse system.


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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Ode Coyote]

 As in " In addition to:"
Ya, Never have enough ways to go to avoid the ole briar patch.
There is never just one path.

MMS  [and CS] is most likely MUCH better than Tamiflu which is all they 
have right now and they are well aware of it's limitations...and what can 
be said publicly and still be employed.


 I know from experience what some good Mary Jane will do to dry up the 
lungs and prevent drowning in your own fluids.
 If push comes to shove, you may start hearing a few whispers about it 
from those very same people.


Pot always made me "antisocial", [and everything a lot harder ] so I don't 
smoke it...but...that could be a good thing if socializing becomes dangerous.


Ode


At 07:53 AM 10/16/2007 -0700, you wrote:


Ode,

   In addition to silver, MMS (sodium chlorite 28%) mixed with citric 
acid turns to chlorine dioxide... can be taken in very small amounts 
mixed with water/juice to oxidize any microbe (or chemical for that 
matter) in a matter of minutes.   Works better than silver IMO.




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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Tad Winiecki]

I'm not very knowledgeable about homeopathics so I don't know how 
homeopathic silver would differ from EIS Silver.  Maybe someone else 
knows


Nancy

On Oct 17, 2007, at 12:19 PM, Tony Moody wrote:


Hi Nancy and anyone else,

Does homeopathic silver destroy the good that CS or EIS does? That is 
one of the features
of homeopathic solutions isn't it? That the homeopathic is 
antagonistic to whatever the

material substance causes.



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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Mark Siepak]

> the first known outbreak not occurring until mass
smallpox vaccination 100 years ago

Ever thought that the people getting polio in that outbreak might have,
in pre-vaccination times, die from smallpox before they had a chance to
develop polio?

Sort of like cancer is so prevalent now.

Now that people live past 37 years old, that is


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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Tony Moody]

On 16 Oct 2007 at 13:30, Tad Winiecki wrote about :
Subject : Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

> I've been using some toothpaste called SilvaFresh by TriMedica.  It's
> homeopathic silver x4 along with 8 other homeopathic substances, in a
> base of aloe vera distillate, but does have Glycerin, has Xylitol.  I
> get it from Azure Standard co-op.
> 
> Nancy
> 
> On Oct 16, 2007, at 10:05 AM, Marshall Dudley wrote:
> 
> > bbanever wrote:
> >> Ya, I even found some toothpaste being sold with silver in it!
> >>
> >> Bob
> >
> > Where? What is the name of it?
> 

Hi Nancy and anyone else,

Does homeopathic silver destroy the good that CS or EIS does? That is one of 
the features 
of homeopathic solutions isn't it? That the homeopathic is antagonistic to 
whatever the 
material substance causes.

It would seem to be " a good thing" to have both real cs and homeopathic silver 
together. but 
would they perhaps destroy each other ot would they become even more effective?

Be well,
Tony Moody




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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Marshall Dudley]

Ode Coyote wrote:



 
It is interesting that the USA Polio epidemic started around the same 
time as the Spanish Flu epidemic and problematic 
vaccine...but...causation doesn't exactly add up linking Spanish Flu 
vaccines to Polio.  Smallpox vaccines to Polio?

 "Vaguely Possible"That would be quite a stretch of the imagination.

Not according to medical experts:

http://www.westonaprice.org/letters/L2001fa.html
That the smallpox vaccination caused polio in the 1940s.

http://www.whale.to/vaccines/polio.html
Further, when you realize that we needed vaccination to provoke polio in 
the first place, with the first known outbreak not occurring until mass 
smallpox vaccination 100 years ago, well then you realize that avoiding 
the administration of the other vaccines almost entirely removes any 
threat of polio anyway.


Not only did the polio vaccine have nothing to do with the decline of 
paralytic polio (or polio in general), evidence shows that vaccinations 
for this and other diseases, notably diptheria, triple antigen 
(diptheria, pertussis and tetanus) and smallpox - were responsible for 
its increase. The decline of cases not caused by vaccination began to 
disappear in the West with improvements in hygiene and sanitation and 
most of the decline occurred well before the widespread use of polio 
vaccination.


http://www.vran.org/vaccines/polio/vaccine-pol.htm
Around the turn of the 20th century, people began reporting paralytic 
illness after smallpox vaccination. ^(15) By the 1920s, infantile 
paralysis (later renamed polio) began to emerge as an important new 
disease that often afflicted the limb that had been vaccinated. And 
later, when typhoid vaccine, then diphtheria, tetanus vaccines and 
pertussis vaccines gained widespread use, illness and paralytic episodes 
following vaccination became common knowledge. Provocation polio is a 
well known phenomenon precipitated by "diverse factors that provoke or 
increase the severity of polio in its victims, or localize it to a 
certain section in the nervous system." Some of these factors included: 
vaccination, trauma, tonsillectomies, pertussis vaccines, and the 
injection of numerous substances such as cortisone, bismuth, guanine and 
penicillin. ^(9)

Polio vaccines to anything else?...not a chance.


How do you know so much more than the experts?  Check this out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OPV_AIDS_hypothesis

According to the *oral polio vaccine (OPVA) AIDS hypothesis*, the AIDS 
 pandemic 
 originated from live polio 
vaccines  prepared in 
chimpanzee  tissue cultures 
which were administered to up to one million Africans between 1957 
 and 1960 
. The specific populations were the 
first in the world to experience HIV-1 infections and AIDS some five 
years later.


In particular the experimental oral vaccine, called CHAT-1, is claimed 
to have been contaminated with simian immunodeficiency virus 
 (SIV), a 
group of viruses endemic to African primates and widely accepted as the 
origin of HIV .


Proponents of the OPV AIDS hypothesis include journalist Edward Hooper 
 as well as scientists Louis 
Paschal and the late W.D. Hamilton 
.


The OPV AIDS hypothesis is contradicted by a large mass of scientific 
evidence , and is 
considered to be incorrect by the scientific community 
.^[1] 
 ^[2] 
 ^[3] 
 ^[4] 
 ^[5] 



^Google polio vaccination aids and you will find over one million 
articles discussing this possible connection.


^Marshall

^




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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[faith gagne]

Great post Ode.

Faith


- Original Message - 
From: "Ode Coyote" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 9:14 AM
Subject: Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?




  Damn Simon!  That's good for a belly laugh.
Talk about fear!
Do you foam at the mouth all the time?

Recurrence and epidemic timelines:

The first recorded smallpox epidemic was in 1350 BC during the
Egyptian-Hittite war.
1518-1520 Aztec Empire (Mexico) Smallpox
1527-1530 Inca Empire (Peru) Smallpox
1616 New England Smallpox
1634-1635 England Smallpox
Edward Jenner (1749-1823), after training in London and a period as an army
surgeon, spent his whole career as a country doctor in his native county of
Gloucestershire in the West of England. His research was based on careful
case-studies and clinical observation more than a hundred years before
scientists could explain the viruses themselves. So successful did his
innovation prove that by 1840 the British government had banned alternative
preventive treatments against smallpox. "Vaccination," the word Jenner
invented for his treatment (from the Latin vacca, a cow), was adopted by
Pasteur for immunization against any disease.
1649 New England, Boston Smallpox
1666 New England Smallpox
1678 New England Smallpox
1738 SC Smallpox
1860-61 PA Smallpox
1862-63 Southern California Smallpox
1865-73 Philadelphia, NY, Boston, New Orleans, Baltimore, Memphis &
Washington DC A series of recurring epidemics of Smallpox, Cholera, Typhus,
Typhoid, Scarlet Fever and Yellow Fever

The last outbreak of smallpox in the United States occurred in Texas in
1949 with 8 cases and 1 death. Even though most of North America, Western
Europe, Australia, and New Zealand were free of smallpox by this time,
other countries such as Africa and India continued to suffer from epidemics.

In 1967 the World Health Organization (WHO) started a worldwide campaign to
eradicate smallpox. This goal was accomplished in 10 years due in a large
part to massive vaccination efforts. The last endemic case of smallpox
occurred in Somalia in 1977. On May 8, 1980, the World Health Assembly
declared the world free of smallpox.


 You can see that smallpox "epidemics" [not just mere outbreaks] have
been recurring regularly for centuries and stopped dead roughly 33 years
after the smallpox vaccine came into common use in those areas.
 "Breakouts" continued till around 1980 world wide.
The vaccine does have some problems for some people, *can* +cause+ a *less*
deadly disease that can be transmitted to other people.  It's not "safe",
but it's a lot better than an epidemic of a much worse problem every few 
years.

Nothing is perfect.
It is interesting that the USA Polio epidemic started around the same time
as the Spanish Flu epidemic and problematic vaccine...but...causation
doesn't exactly add up linking Spanish Flu vaccines to Polio.  Smallpox
vaccines to Polio?
 "Vaguely Possible"That would be quite a stretch of the imagination.
Polio vaccines to anything else?...not a chance.
The idea that the Spanish Flu vaccine caused Spanish Flu, is putting the
cart before the horse.  It "might" have made it worse, but proving that in
the face of widespread vaccination can't be done.  Can't prove a
negative...it WAS done and we'll never know one way or the other what would
have happened if it wasn't.
That's life.  Lump it or give up.
 Venom is no substitute for considering the risks and vaguearities of
living.  "Foam mouth" doesn't change that.
There are no clear choices or absolutes, only odds and relative 
consequences.

It ain't that simple, Simon...too freeking bad, Dude.

1789 - British physician Michael Underwood provides the first clinical
description of polio. [ That does not establish an origin time or source,
just recognition and a definition. ]
1894 - The first major polio epidemic reported in the United States occurs
in Vermont.
1916 USA Polio (infantile paralysis) Over 7,000 deaths and more than 27,000
cases reported in America's worst polio epidemic so far.
1918 World wide Spanish Influenza
(1918 was the high point year)

1952 - There are 58, 000 cases of polio in the United States, the most
ever. Early versions of the Salk vaccine were tested around this time.
1979 - The last indigenous transmission of wild polio virus occurs in the
U.S. All future cases are either imported or vaccine-related.
[again..nothing is perfect, but setbacks and glitches don't equal failure ]
1994 - China launches its first National Immunization Days, immunizing 80
million children! The entire Western Hemisphere is certified as "polio 
free."

1995 - India follows China's lead and organizes its first National
Immunization Days. More than 87 million children are immunized!
1999 - More than 450 million children are vaccinated, including nearly 147
million in India. In the 11 years since 

Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Ode Coyote]

At 08:30 AM 10/16/2007 -0400, you wrote:

BUT it sure doesn't give whoever is producing these vaccines the right 
to put mercury and/or anyother extremely harmful additive to these 
vaccines that are causing havoc in the unsuspecticing, trusting 
publics,  bodies.debbie


No disagreement there...and they have stopped doing that now that the 
issue has been studied some and found,


Wrong, as I stated earlier. They ARE still putting this into many (but not 
all) vaccines. They took it out of most children's vaccines, but not the 
influenza - and there are others.


## But there are no mandatory flu shots and not taking them out isn't the 
same as no longer putting them in.

 Are the "others" mandatory?
 Name them.
Are they old stock or new stock?

And that amount of mercury has no effects on adults over and above the 
"now normal" much higher levels of environmental mercury.


BULLSHIT, Ode. What you and your medical gods are ignoring is the 
METHODOLOGY. Mercury that is DIRECTLY INJECTED INTO THE BLOODSTREAM can in 
NO way be compared to mercury that is ingested incidentally with certain 
foods, and/or breathed in minute amounts in the air.


## It's no longer minute amounts and food ingestion takes things into the 
blood stream as does inhalation, only, inhalation does it almost as well as 
injection.  It is the same "form" of mercury.  Mercury itself isn't toxic. 
It's inorganic and non soluble.

Methyl mercury is an organic compound.
Ode


Same goes for vaccines. Direct injection can in no way be compared to the 
fundamental concept (which is actually homeopathy, which I'm fairly 
certain I've seen you diss - funny, really, considering).


And even if that amount of mercury isn't "the" problem, adding that to 
other "unavoidable" sources can be avoided...and IS being avoided as of a 
couple of years ago...just on "general principle",  just in case and no 
good reason not to since the development of better preservatives.


Again, WRONG... but your refusal to acknowledge the highly toxic nature of 
mercury just shows your ignorance on this issue. Too bad smart people are 
often too smart for their own good, as you are herein proving beyond a 
shadow of a doubt.



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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Ode Coyote]

At 08:39 AM 10/16/2007 -0400, you wrote:


Well, believe this:
If you have the flu, you have no right to go out in public, much less 
transport people around.

Doing so is irresponsible, if not illegal.


So you are looking forward to the day when the medical industry has the 
power to jail - and even kill - people who you believe has some nysterious 
germ inside their body that you believe threatens your health somehow.


##  What in Hell gave you that idea?  I certainly don't look forward to any 
of this.  Jeezo, get a grip!




I seem to recall seeing a movie some time back where this had happened.


That you "can" is a dangerous oversight, not a right.


Herr Ode - the medical hitler.


## Simple Simon, serial killer? [ I am not contagious!!  cough cough  Hug me! ]
I suppose you think you have a right to drive drunk too, ey?


You can refuse a vaccination, but then, stay at home making it "your" 
problem and not many many other peoples problem.


IMAGINARY problem.


##  If you are isolated, imaginary or not becomes a moot point. Better Safe 
than Sorry is going to determine the action, be it right or wrong in 
retrospect.  That's just how it works, not my idea.



In the case of "life threatening" pandemic, it will be illegal and you 
could "rightfully" get yourself shot if you leave home.


Yep - definitely self-defense. You, sir, are a Hitler in the making.

If by chance the vaccination doesn't work, at least you've taken the 
steps than can be taken to prevent transmission, vs, no steps at all...or 
anti-steps.


Yes - but what if *I* believe that doing a voodoo dance while sacrificing 
someone named 'Ode' to the germ-gods is a legitimate 'step that can be 
taken to prevent transmission'... do you not see the slippery slope we are 
talking about here?


##  You can do all the dances you want, at home.
 The public may take exception.



THE GERM IS NOTHING - THE TERRAIN IS EVERYTHING.


##  terrain?  Define it.
Is that "immune system"?
 If so..and it's working..there's no problem to be solved.
Is "terrain" vector busting distance?
 Quaratine is a solution...for everyone but the quarantined.


That some vaccinations might not work "as advertised" doesn't mean none 
do, at least, "something".


And such 'evidence' GIVES YOU THE RIGHT TO SHOOT PEOPLE?


##  No, the evidence of vectors gives people the right to act in self 
preservation and that's what they'll do regardless of your or my opinions 
about anything.


Why do YOU think people get sick and how do they communicate that illness?
 Not germs getting by defenses?  OK, spell it out.
A million scientists with repeatable evidence knows all, or nothing and 
nothing in betweenand you know all.


Ode




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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Ode Coyote]

  Damn Simon!  That's good for a belly laugh.
Talk about fear!
Do you foam at the mouth all the time?

Recurrence and epidemic timelines:

The first recorded smallpox epidemic was in 1350 BC during the 
Egyptian-Hittite war.

1518-1520 Aztec Empire (Mexico) Smallpox
1527-1530 Inca Empire (Peru) Smallpox
1616 New England Smallpox
1634-1635 England Smallpox
Edward Jenner (1749-1823), after training in London and a period as an army 
surgeon, spent his whole career as a country doctor in his native county of 
Gloucestershire in the West of England. His research was based on careful 
case-studies and clinical observation more than a hundred years before 
scientists could explain the viruses themselves. So successful did his 
innovation prove that by 1840 the British government had banned alternative 
preventive treatments against smallpox. "Vaccination," the word Jenner 
invented for his treatment (from the Latin vacca, a cow), was adopted by 
Pasteur for immunization against any disease.

1649 New England, Boston Smallpox
1666 New England Smallpox
1678 New England Smallpox
1738 SC Smallpox
1860-61 PA Smallpox
1862-63 Southern California Smallpox
1865-73 Philadelphia, NY, Boston, New Orleans, Baltimore, Memphis & 
Washington DC A series of recurring epidemics of Smallpox, Cholera, Typhus, 
Typhoid, Scarlet Fever and Yellow Fever


The last outbreak of smallpox in the United States occurred in Texas in 
1949 with 8 cases and 1 death. Even though most of North America, Western 
Europe, Australia, and New Zealand were free of smallpox by this time, 
other countries such as Africa and India continued to suffer from epidemics.


In 1967 the World Health Organization (WHO) started a worldwide campaign to 
eradicate smallpox. This goal was accomplished in 10 years due in a large 
part to massive vaccination efforts. The last endemic case of smallpox 
occurred in Somalia in 1977. On May 8, 1980, the World Health Assembly 
declared the world free of smallpox.



 You can see that smallpox "epidemics" [not just mere outbreaks] have 
been recurring regularly for centuries and stopped dead roughly 33 years 
after the smallpox vaccine came into common use in those areas.

 "Breakouts" continued till around 1980 world wide.
The vaccine does have some problems for some people, *can* +cause+ a *less* 
deadly disease that can be transmitted to other people.  It's not "safe", 
but it's a lot better than an epidemic of a much worse problem every few years.

Nothing is perfect.
It is interesting that the USA Polio epidemic started around the same time 
as the Spanish Flu epidemic and problematic vaccine...but...causation 
doesn't exactly add up linking Spanish Flu vaccines to Polio.  Smallpox 
vaccines to Polio?

 "Vaguely Possible"That would be quite a stretch of the imagination.
Polio vaccines to anything else?...not a chance.
The idea that the Spanish Flu vaccine caused Spanish Flu, is putting the 
cart before the horse.  It "might" have made it worse, but proving that in 
the face of widespread vaccination can't be done.  Can't prove a 
negative...it WAS done and we'll never know one way or the other what would 
have happened if it wasn't.

That's life.  Lump it or give up.
 Venom is no substitute for considering the risks and vaguearities of 
living.  "Foam mouth" doesn't change that.

There are no clear choices or absolutes, only odds and relative consequences.
It ain't that simple, Simon...too freeking bad, Dude.

1789 - British physician Michael Underwood provides the first clinical 
description of polio. [ That does not establish an origin time or source, 
just recognition and a definition. ]
1894 - The first major polio epidemic reported in the United States occurs 
in Vermont.
1916 USA Polio (infantile paralysis) Over 7,000 deaths and more than 27,000 
cases reported in America's worst polio epidemic so far.

1918 World wide Spanish Influenza
(1918 was the high point year)

1952 - There are 58, 000 cases of polio in the United States, the most 
ever. Early versions of the Salk vaccine were tested around this time.
1979 - The last indigenous transmission of wild polio virus occurs in the 
U.S. All future cases are either imported or vaccine-related. 
[again..nothing is perfect, but setbacks and glitches don't equal failure ]
1994 - China launches its first National Immunization Days, immunizing 80 
million children! The entire Western Hemisphere is certified as "polio free."
1995 - India follows China's lead and organizes its first National 
Immunization Days. More than 87 million children are immunized!
1999 - More than 450 million children are vaccinated, including nearly 147 
million in India. In the 11 years since the World Health Assembly 
Initiative, the number of reported Polio cases *worldwide* has fallen to 
approximately 7 000.


##  Vaccines do have side effects and problems, sometimes bad ones, but 
they obviously work far better than nothing...or anything else that's been 
tried.


in July 1999, 

Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Carol Ann]

Usually, the majority of elderly are already in a state of compromised immune 
systems. There are so many more gentler remedies for the elderly to regulate 
the heart. Unfortunately, docs do and recommend what they know bestwhich is 
certainly not always what is best.  Take care of momma by doing the research 
for her...

mborg...@att.net wrote: My mom had the flu shot she was very healthy but the 
shot started the congestive heart failure episodes within 2 days. 
One er doc said to never let the elderly have a flu shot.
My brother was in charge of her health as he lived 1 hr closer to her than 
myself, the docs gave her all of these meds I looked all of them up  one said 
DO NOT GIVE TO THE ELDERLY AS THIS WILL KILL THEM. I called the doc she said 
yes it probably would but it is either that or chf will.
 the drug was to regulate her blood pressure.
Mary



Regards, Carol Ann ~ The only thing that is different is how you think..
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/archivepix.html
 __
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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[mborgert]

My mom had the flu shot she was very healthy but the shot started the 
congestive heart failure episodes within 2 days. 
One er doc said to never let the elderly have a flu shot.
My brother was in charge of her health as he lived 1 hr closer to her than 
myself, the docs gave her all of these meds I looked all of them up  one said 
DO NOT GIVE TO THE ELDERLY AS THIS WILL KILL THEM. I called the doc she said 
yes it probably would but it is either that or chf will.
 the drug was to regulate her blood pressure.
Mary

-- Original message --
From: Carol Ann 
>
>  FLU SHOTS: THEY DON'T PROTECT THE ELDERLY, NEW DATA REVEALS 
>  Flu shots for the elderly are far less effective than doctors like to
>  tell us. In fact, they are incapable of preventing up to half of all
>  deaths from influenza and pneumonia in the elderly, new data suggests.
>  Despite this, governments continue to spend millions of dollars on
>  ineffective vaccines and mislead the public. 
>  http://healthy. net/scr/news. asp?id=9445 
> 
> Kurt Milkowski  wrote: You'd be surprised at 
> how 
> 'cool' some of these guys are,  just under 
> > the lab coats, nearly incomprehensible back deck  barbecue party 
> > conversations and triple PHD exteriors
>
>   No hookers to go along with the barbeques? It would help ease thier minds 
> as 
> they develope new ways to kill people.
>
>   Kurt
>   
> 
> Simon Jester  wrote:
>   
> Maybe not turkeys - but definitely COWARDS. If even a SMALL number of these 
> people would stand up to the tyranny, the big pharmas house of cards would 
> come 
> tumbling down around their heads - and many, many people would end up in jail 
> - 
> and if I had my druthers, on DEATH ROW - 
> for their crimes against humanity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regards, Carol Ann ~ The only thing that is different is how you think..
> http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/archivepix.html
>  __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Carol Ann]

 FLU SHOTS: THEY DON'T PROTECT THE ELDERLY, NEW DATA REVEALS 
 Flu shots for the elderly are far less effective than doctors like to
 tell us. In fact, they are incapable of preventing up to half of all
 deaths from influenza and pneumonia in the elderly, new data suggests.
 Despite this, governments continue to spend millions of dollars on
 ineffective vaccines and mislead the public. 
 http://healthy. net/scr/news. asp?id=9445 

Kurt Milkowski  wrote: You'd be surprised at how 
'cool' some of these guys are,  just under 
> the lab coats, nearly incomprehensible back deck  barbecue party 
> conversations and triple PHD exteriors
   
  No hookers to go along with the barbeques? It would help ease thier minds as 
they develope new ways to kill people.
   
  Kurt
  

Simon Jester  wrote:
  
Maybe not turkeys - but definitely COWARDS. If even a SMALL number of these 
people would stand up to the tyranny, the big pharmas house of cards would come 
tumbling down around their heads - and many, many people would end up in jail - 
and if I had my druthers, on DEATH ROW - 
for their crimes against humanity.




Regards, Carol Ann ~ The only thing that is different is how you think..
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/archivepix.html
 __
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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[bbanever]

Tad,

   Yep, that's the same brand of toothpaste I found at a local health food 
store.
- Original Message - 
From: "Tad Winiecki" 

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?


I've been using some toothpaste called SilvaFresh by TriMedica.  It's 
homeopathic silver x4 along with 8 other homeopathic substances, in a base 
of aloe vera distillate, but does have Glycerin, has Xylitol.  I get it 
from Azure Standard co-op.


Nancy

On Oct 16, 2007, at 10:05 AM, Marshall Dudley wrote:


bbanever wrote:

Ya, I even found some toothpaste being sold with silver in it!

Bob


Where? What is the name of it?



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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Richard]

Simon , why are you attacking Ode´s credibility  and attempting to be  
clever? Ode knows a lot more about CS than you, he certainly writes a  
lot better than you and his Silver puppy generators are the best on  
the market . Are you really " a simple minded peasant " or is that  
just a giant chip on your shoulder? have a nice day - Richard

On 16/10/2007, at 19:57, Simon Jester wrote:

Silver IS being rediscovered in more effective forms as nano- 
technology and ion exchange technology are better understood  
though progression of discovery.

You haven't noticed how many products it's being used in lately?
The list is a long one.
Even the "Pharm" is catching on.


Sp, we should just bow down and worship at the altar of big pharm  
because they have deigned to acknowledge something that some of us  
simple-minded peasants have known for many many years?


As of around 5 years ago, a pharm research department head friend  
of mine was working on metallic nano particles.

That's all he would say.


Ahh... some explanation for your attitude at last. Begone,  
herr medical-fascist.



Might have been touched off by a CS generator gift a year earlier.
I don't know, but he got pretty quiet after that.
They aren't all "turkeys" , you know.


Maybe not turkeys - but definitely COWARDS. If even a SMALL number  
of these people would stand up to the tyranny, the big pharmas  
house of cards would come tumbling down around their heads - and  
many, many people would end up in jail - and if I had my druthers,  
on DEATH ROW - for their crimes against humanity.


You'd be surprised at how 'cool' some of these guys are,  just  
under the lab coats, nearly incomprehensible back deck  barbecue  
party conversations and triple PHD exteriors.


Yeah, really 'cool'... Ode, you just lost any shred of credibility  
you may have had...



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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Kurt Milkowski]

Actually president shrub, just vetoed a bill that would have removed mercury 
from vaccines, What a guy.
   
  Kurt

Simon Jester  wrote:
  >> BUT it sure doesn't give whoever is producing 
>> these vaccines the right to put mercury and/or anyother extremely 
>> harmful additive to these vaccines that are causing havoc in the 
>> unsuspecticing, trusting publics, bodies.debbie

> No disagreement there...and they have stopped doing that now that 
> the issue has been studied some and found,

Wrong, as I stated earlier. They ARE still putting this into many (but 
not all) vaccines. They took it out of most children's vaccines, but not 
the influenza - and there are others.

> And that amount of mercury has no effects on adults over and above 
> the "now normal" much higher levels of environmental mercury.

BULLSHIT, Ode. What you and your medical gods are ignoring is the 
METHODOLOGY. Mercury that is DIRECTLY INJECTED INTO THE BLOODSTREAM can 
in NO way be compared to mercury that is ingested incidentally with 
certain foods, and/or breathed in minute amounts in the air.

Same goes for vaccines. Direct injection can in no way be compared to 
the fundamental concept (which is actually homeopathy, which I'm fairly 
certain I've seen you diss - funny, really, considering).

> And even if that amount of mercury isn't "the" problem, adding that 
> to other "unavoidable" sources can be avoided...and IS being avoided 
> as of a couple of years ago...just on "general principle", just in 
> case and no good reason not to since the development of better 
> preservatives.

Again, WRONG... but your refusal to acknowledge the highly toxic nature 
of mercury just shows your ignorance on this issue. Too bad smart people 
are often too smart for their own good, as you are herein proving beyond 
a shadow of a doubt.


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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Kurt Milkowski]

And the purpose of the vaccines and the chemtrails is to do just that, weaken 
your immune system. When you look at why the fictional bird flue, the reason it 
doesn't kill humans yet is because of our body temparature. The virus when 
inhaled by humans dies right away because the temparature in our mouth and 
nasal passages isn't high enough to sustain it. If you had a good ole' fever 
though, shazaam, your dead. Rest assured they are working on ways to help the 
virus survive at lower temps.
   
  Kurt

Simon Jester  wrote:
  > Hey, flus do kill.

Only those with a sufficiently weakened immunse system.


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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Kurt Milkowski]

You'd be surprised at how 'cool' some of these guys are,  just under 
> the lab coats, nearly incomprehensible back deck  barbecue party 
> conversations and triple PHD exteriors
   
  No hookers to go along with the barbeques? It would help ease thier minds as 
they develope new ways to kill people.
   
  Kurt
  

Simon Jester  wrote:
  > Silver IS being rediscovered in more effective forms as 
> nano-technology and ion exchange technology are better understood 
> though progression of discovery.
> You haven't noticed how many products it's being used in lately?
> The list is a long one.
> 
> Even the "Pharm" is catching on.

Sp, we should just bow down and worship at the altar of big pharm 
because they have deigned to acknowledge something that some of us 
simple-minded peasants have known for many many years?

> As of around 5 years ago, a pharm research department head friend of 
> mine was working on metallic nano particles.
> That's all he would say.

Ahh... some explanation for your attitude at last. Begone, herr 
medical-fascist.

> Might have been touched off by a CS generator gift a year earlier.
> I don't know, but he got pretty quiet after that.
> 
> They aren't all "turkeys" , you know.

Maybe not turkeys - but definitely COWARDS. If even a SMALL number of 
these people would stand up to the tyranny, the big pharmas house of 
cards would come tumbling down around their heads - and many, many 
people would end up in jail - and if I had my druthers, on DEATH ROW - 
for their crimes against humanity.

> You'd be surprised at how 'cool' some of these guys are, just under 
> the lab coats, nearly incomprehensible back deck barbecue party 
> conversations and triple PHD exteriors. 

Yeah, really 'cool'... Ode, you just lost any shred of credibility you 
may have had...


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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Tad Winiecki]

I've been using some toothpaste called SilvaFresh by TriMedica.  It's 
homeopathic silver x4 along with 8 other homeopathic substances, in a 
base of aloe vera distillate, but does have Glycerin, has Xylitol.  I 
get it from Azure Standard co-op.


Nancy

On Oct 16, 2007, at 10:05 AM, Marshall Dudley wrote:


bbanever wrote:

Ya, I even found some toothpaste being sold with silver in it!

Bob


Where? What is the name of it?



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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Clayton Family]

well, someone mentioned before that the flu vac is a gamble in any 
case. The CDC goes to the East and tries to hedge bets on which new flu 
will make it's way here next, and then make up vacs for that virus. The 
last time I heard, there were several strains in the one vac, so they 
were betting it would work for more kinds of flu virus, therefore not 
be a total waste.


On Oct 15, 2007, at 4:39 PM, Kurt Milkowski wrote:


When did they make a flu shot that works?
 
Kurt

Ode Coyote  wrote:



Well, believe this:
If you have the flu, you have no right to go out in public, much less
transport people around.
Doing so is irresponsible, if not illegal.

If by chance the vaccination doesn't work, at least you've taken the 
steps
than can be taken to prevent transmission, vs, no steps at all...or 
anti-steps.


That some vaccinations might not work "as advertised" doesn't mean 
none do,

at least, "something".



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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Marshall Dudley]

bbanever wrote:

Ya, I even found some toothpaste being sold with silver in it!

Bob


Where? What is the name of it?

Marshall


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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[John Plumridge]

--On 16 October 2007 09:15:16 -0400 Ode Coyote  wrote:


   That depends on the flu strain.
The H5N1bird flu, so far, has a 60% survival rate...IF... you have access
to a ventilator to keep you breathing.


That's the human engineered variety.


  That's about a 90% mortality rate without one and most well equipped
hospitals only have a dozen or so.

It's not that "flu" that kills you, it's a healthy bodies over response
to it that drowns you in it's own defense mechanism.
Old people with weak immune systems actually survive better.


So it is speculated. I have seen no subsatantial research on this idea. DO 
you suggest a paper?


[BTW  I have seen what just a couple puffs of high test pot smoke does
for a strangling congestive cough that no over the counter drug even
touches.  Instant lung dryer.  Amazing!  My ex was turning blue by the
time I tried that one on her and hadn't slept in 3 days. Suddenly, no
more cough or congestion.  BANG, bonggone and didn't come back.  A
touch of the "weed' might be a life saver and damn the pee bottles to
favor cotton mouth and a big Buzz side effect. ]

They have photos of that sucker and know just what it will take to mutate
into an easy airborne transmitter that keys into human receptor sites
like a lock.
  The number used "H5N1" is the sequence of receptors as a genetic code
of sorts...like the numbers on tumblers in a lock and key set.
It ain't much of a change, it's really close right now.
Right now, it's more like a lock pick scratching up the door on the way
in.
It's also not a specific lock, more like a generic master lock
*resistant* to other keys.
  There will always be a few humans that fall just outside the master
lock of "human" and be resistant, if not immune.
Everything lives in multiple ranges of averages.

  Yes, it's a "scare", but one with some mean meat to it.

  If that one does mutate, it'll be a lot worse than the Spanish flu that
killed millions world wide in the early 1900s.
It could, however, also mutate into harmlessness, or a flu with a 99.9%
survival rate.


If: I think it does all the time.


That one is a crap shoot, but with big losers if lucky sevens don't pop
up on the mutation toss...and no vaccine can be made until it does what
it's going to do, as there are too many viable and dangerous variants
possible to engineer them all before hand.
It's a lot closer to really bad, than nothing to be concerned about.

  By then, with the time it takes to develop and make enough vaccine,
[about 6 months with a 2 week vector world wide] we're toast, buddy.   No
one knows how well done.
Pity it was created outside the human body, where otherwise viruses exist 
in a more synergistic state for the less-vulnerable (majority).



"Vaccines don't work"?  Never mind.  It's all over with.  Salt water
doesn't stop drowning.

..and if "they" wanted to kill us all, they could.
The technology exists, now.

It's easy to kill everyone, a LOT harder to select who.
"They" ARE us...and they don't want to die off any more than we do.

On the other hand, if they can "engineer" a variant and have a vaccine
ready on the sly...they could select a very very limited who.
  Problem:  What good is it to be the lords of an empty planet?


Just choose a figure, 1 Billion is quoted as desirable for the New World 
Orders' slaves.

Problem:  Not enough people, its back to the stone age.
  Too many?  Back to the stone age by another means.
  Both winds up with not enough, in different ways.

...and expanding that who sufficiently, spills the beans...can't keep
enough whos alive to make it worth while. [yet]



AIDs is already at work?  [ Maybe accident, maybe design..makes no
difference to what it's doing. ] so why bother.

  Weird thing is, AIDs people might be able to survive the Bird Flu
better than healthy people...then die later. [oops]

Question: How many people are prepared to endure total isolation for a
year or more, or are in a position to accomplish it?
  Answer: Not enough. Most people live in cities and many won't stay
there after the food supply dries up in a couple of days.
Where will they go? Shopping in the countryside? Killing sheep? Pulling 
turnips and picking blackberries? But the food supply has run dry.


I imagine meat eaters will kill the vulnerable young and old, if they don't 
restrain themselves - in the country too.


If the flu don't get you, starvation or hordes of hungry, scared and
about to be very ill people, probably will.

The vulnerable - not necessarily me.
It's not the flu that kills you, but mismanagement of flu cases: early 
intervention, with fresh air is needed, not heat. Rest. A shawl might be 
better, first. Then if heat is needed, radiant wood fire, with window open. 
SAlt water for the passages, A flannel for fever. Body exercises which 
loosen and strengthen congested areas, in the head, neck, and shoulder, 
nasal, throat, chest areas. Relieves flu in a few short hours. But there's 
no comparative study. Spanish flu epi

Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[John Plumridge]

--On 16 October 2007 07:38:00 -0400 Ode Coyote  wrote:




  Silver IS being rediscovered in more effective forms as nano-technology
and ion exchange technology are better understood though progression of
discovery.
  You haven't noticed how many products it's being used in lately?
The list is a long one.

Even the "Pharm" is catching on.
That was the example hinted at for my suggestion of rediscovery as opposed 
to progressive discovery.



As of around 5 years ago, a pharm research department head friend of mine
was working on metallic nano particles.
That's all he would say.

Might have been touched off by a CS generator gift a year earlier.
I don't know, but he got pretty quiet after that.

  They aren't all  "turkeys" , you know.
You'd be surprised at how 'cool' some of these guys are,  just under the
lab coats, nearly incomprehensible back deck  barbecue party
conversations and triple PHD exteriors.


I'll bet my boots they got their ideas from alternative/complimentary users 
like people on this list, and some press reports of the fact, plus the 
problems of mms and the soloution of silver offered by certain companies 
using silver for linings in long-life products.
What medical reseachers study is all politically driven. 'Cool' I'm sure 
phd students are - they study cool and wear it like a uniform. Speak cool, 
I don't think so...barbecue parity conversation isn't so free where you 
hear the name of university colleges.. They are usually five years behind 
free thinkers who also try to solve imaginary problems.
Of course some are naturally intelligent,  and wear what they like in a 
nice way, like shirts instead of T-shirts.  It is true, I suppose, phd 
students, though dressed uninterestingly, are beginning to break a little 
from student conformity, into adult conformity.


But Cool is dead now. The re-birth of cool, would be the re-emergence of 
the unpaid politically-free 'Gentleman Scholar'. Like yourself.  Couldn't 
be less interested in nano-technology, or anything to do with microscopes 
myself. Another disaster for the human race, before we  just live. 
Seriously unnecessary  toys for  people who seriously insist on missing 
things with the scope of intelligence and the human eye. 


JOhn.



Ode


At 07:55 PM 10/15/2007 +0100, you wrote:


Discovery as a progression:

why not a rediscovery, as in the case of silver, which was forgotten
largely, since Roman and Persian times?

If true, then this procession is more like a a dance troupe on their way
back fro the pub doing a Micahael Jackson impersonation.

JOhn

--On 15 October 2007 11:06:04 -0400 Ode Coyote 
wrote:


At 08:12 PM 10/12/2007 -0700, you wrote:


I see your point Ode..BUT it sure doesn't give whoever is producing
these  vaccines the right to put mercury and/or anyother extremely
harmful  additive to these vaccines that are causing havoc in the
unsuspecticing,  trusting publics,  bodies.debbie

##  No disagreement there...and they have stopped doing that now that the
##  issue has been studied some and found, even though the evidence
##  doesn't add up in the face of other more prevalent factors as relates
##  to the effects of "mercury" in nervous system 'development'...it's
##  still not a great idea to add to the environmental load and better
##  ways to preserve a vaccine now exist that may not have before.
ie: It's not the "vaccine" so much as it's the preservative IN the
vaccine.
And that amount of mercury has no effects on adults over and above the
"now normal" much higher levels of environmental mercury.
And even if that amount of mercury isn't "the" problem, adding that to
other "unavoidable" sources can be avoided...and IS being avoided as of
a couple of years ago...just on "general principle",  just in case and
no good reason not to since the development of better preservatives.

Discovery, is and always has been, a progression...or...the Romans had
no right to use lead plumbing and radioactive glaze was  put on
FiestaWare for the express purpose of giving people cancer.

PS  Radium glaze was discontinued, not because it "gave" people cancer,
but because it "possibly" could and wasn't necessary.  It *was* used
because  there *was* no known reason not to use it, and it was pretty.
Was, isn't is.Known and even suspected, does not predate, not known.

Ode

Ode


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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[bbanever]

Ode,

   In addition to silver, MMS (sodium chlorite 28%) mixed with citric acid 
turns to chlorine dioxide... can be taken in very small amounts mixed with 
water/juice to oxidize any microbe (or chemical for that matter) in a matter 
of minutes.   Works better than silver IMO.


http://www.ener-chi.com/mms.htm
- Original Message - 
From: "Ode Coyote" 

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 6:15 AM
Subject: Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?



  That depends on the flu strain.
The H5N1bird flu, so far, has a 60% survival rate...IF... you have access 
to a ventilator to keep you breathing.
 That's about a 90% mortality rate without one and most well equipped 
hospitals only have a dozen or so.


It's not that "flu" that kills you, it's a healthy bodies over response to 
it that drowns you in it's own defense mechanism.

Old people with weak immune systems actually survive better.

[BTW  I have seen what just a couple puffs of high test pot smoke does for 
a strangling congestive cough that no over the counter drug even touches. 
Instant lung dryer.  Amazing!  My ex was turning blue by the time I tried 
that one on her and hadn't slept in 3 days. Suddenly, no more cough or 
congestion.  BANG, bonggone and didn't come back.  A touch of the 
"weed' might be a life saver and damn the pee bottles to favor cotton 
mouth and a big Buzz side effect. ]


They have photos of that sucker and know just what it will take to mutate 
into an easy airborne transmitter that keys into human receptor sites like 
a lock.
 The number used "H5N1" is the sequence of receptors as a genetic code of 
sorts...like the numbers on tumblers in a lock and key set.

It ain't much of a change, it's really close right now.
Right now, it's more like a lock pick scratching up the door on the way 
in.
It's also not a specific lock, more like a generic master lock *resistant* 
to other keys.
 There will always be a few humans that fall just outside the master lock 
of "human" and be resistant, if not immune.

Everything lives in multiple ranges of averages.

 Yes, it's a "scare", but one with some mean meat to it.

 If that one does mutate, it'll be a lot worse than the Spanish flu that 
killed millions world wide in the early 1900s.
It could, however, also mutate into harmlessness, or a flu with a 99.9% 
survival rate.


That one is a crap shoot, but with big losers if lucky sevens don't pop up 
on the mutation toss...and no vaccine can be made until it does what it's 
going to do, as there are too many viable and dangerous variants possible 
to engineer them all before hand.

It's a lot closer to really bad, than nothing to be concerned about.

 By then, with the time it takes to develop and make enough vaccine, 
[about 6 months with a 2 week vector world wide] we're toast, buddy.   No 
one knows how well done.


"Vaccines don't work"?  Never mind.  It's all over with.  Salt water 
doesn't stop drowning.


..and if "they" wanted to kill us all, they could.
The technology exists, now.

It's easy to kill everyone, a LOT harder to select who.
"They" ARE us...and they don't want to die off any more than we do.

On the other hand, if they can "engineer" a variant and have a vaccine 
ready on the sly...they could select a very very limited who.

 Problem:  What good is it to be the lords of an empty planet?
Problem:  Not enough people, its back to the stone age.
 Too many?  Back to the stone age by another means.
 Both winds up with not enough, in different ways.

...and expanding that who sufficiently, spills the beans...can't keep 
enough whos alive to make it worth while. [yet]




AIDs is already at work?  [ Maybe accident, maybe design..makes no 
difference to what it's doing. ] so why bother.


 Weird thing is, AIDs people might be able to survive the Bird Flu better 
than healthy people...then die later. [oops]


Question: How many people are prepared to endure total isolation for a 
year or more, or are in a position to accomplish it?
 Answer: Not enough. Most people live in cities and many won't stay there 
after the food supply dries up in a couple of days.


If the flu don't get you, starvation or hordes of hungry, scared and about 
to be very ill people, probably will.


Ode

At 07:51 PM 10/15/2007 +0100, you wrote:

But, Ode, hardly anyone dies of flue. Just a few extremely vulnerable 
people. Maybe with their windows shut, in a ground floor bungalow with no 
heating. It's an advertising scare, isn't it?


JOhn

--On 15 October 2007 10:26:25 -0400 Ode Coyote  
wrote:




  I can go look at the slides and research, blow by blow "this does 
that"

with piles of repeatable evidence.
  You have to rely on an unfounded opinion being promoted by notoriously
ignorant "anti-bel

Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[bbanever]

Ya, I even found some toothpaste being sold with silver in it!

Bob
- Original Message - 
From: "Ode Coyote" 

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 4:38 AM
Subject: Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?





 Silver IS being rediscovered in more effective forms as nano-technology 
and ion exchange technology are better understood though progression of 
discovery.

 You haven't noticed how many products it's being used in lately?
The list is a long one.

Even the "Pharm" is catching on.
As of around 5 years ago, a pharm research department head friend of mine 
was working on metallic nano particles.

That's all he would say.

Might have been touched off by a CS generator gift a year earlier.
I don't know, but he got pretty quiet after that.

 They aren't all  "turkeys" , you know.
You'd be surprised at how 'cool' some of these guys are,  just under the 
lab coats, nearly incomprehensible back deck  barbecue party conversations 
and triple PHD exteriors.


Ode


At 07:55 PM 10/15/2007 +0100, you wrote:


Discovery as a progression:

why not a rediscovery, as in the case of silver, which was forgotten 
largely, since Roman and Persian times?


If true, then this procession is more like a a dance troupe on their way 
back fro the pub doing a Micahael Jackson impersonation.


JOhn

--On 15 October 2007 11:06:04 -0400 Ode Coyote  
wrote:



At 08:12 PM 10/12/2007 -0700, you wrote:


I see your point Ode..BUT it sure doesn't give whoever is producing
these  vaccines the right to put mercury and/or anyother extremely
harmful  additive to these vaccines that are causing havoc in the
unsuspecticing,  trusting publics,  bodies.debbie

##  No disagreement there...and they have stopped doing that now that the
##  issue has been studied some and found, even though the evidence
##  doesn't add up in the face of other more prevalent factors as relates
##  to the effects of "mercury" in nervous system 'development'...it's
##  still not a great idea to add to the environmental load and better
##  ways to preserve a vaccine now exist that may not have before.
ie: It's not the "vaccine" so much as it's the preservative IN the
vaccine.
And that amount of mercury has no effects on adults over and above the
"now normal" much higher levels of environmental mercury.
And even if that amount of mercury isn't "the" problem, adding that to
other "unavoidable" sources can be avoided...and IS being avoided as of a
couple of years ago...just on "general principle",  just in case and no
good reason not to since the development of better preservatives.

Discovery, is and always has been, a progression...or...the Romans had no
right to use lead plumbing and radioactive glaze was  put on FiestaWare
for the express purpose of giving people cancer.

PS  Radium glaze was discontinued, not because it "gave" people cancer,
but because it "possibly" could and wasn't necessary.  It *was* used
because  there *was* no known reason not to use it, and it was pretty.
Was, isn't is.Known and even suspected, does not predate, not known.

Ode

Ode


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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Ode Coyote]

  That depends on the flu strain.
The H5N1bird flu, so far, has a 60% survival rate...IF... you have access 
to a ventilator to keep you breathing.
 That's about a 90% mortality rate without one and most well equipped 
hospitals only have a dozen or so.


It's not that "flu" that kills you, it's a healthy bodies over response to 
it that drowns you in it's own defense mechanism.

Old people with weak immune systems actually survive better.

[BTW  I have seen what just a couple puffs of high test pot smoke does for 
a strangling congestive cough that no over the counter drug even 
touches.  Instant lung dryer.  Amazing!  My ex was turning blue by the time 
I tried that one on her and hadn't slept in 3 days. Suddenly, no more cough 
or congestion.  BANG, bonggone and didn't come back.  A touch of the 
"weed' might be a life saver and damn the pee bottles to favor cotton mouth 
and a big Buzz side effect. ]


They have photos of that sucker and know just what it will take to mutate 
into an easy airborne transmitter that keys into human receptor sites like 
a lock.
 The number used "H5N1" is the sequence of receptors as a genetic code of 
sorts...like the numbers on tumblers in a lock and key set.

It ain't much of a change, it's really close right now.
Right now, it's more like a lock pick scratching up the door on the way in.
It's also not a specific lock, more like a generic master lock *resistant* 
to other keys.
 There will always be a few humans that fall just outside the master lock 
of "human" and be resistant, if not immune.

Everything lives in multiple ranges of averages.

 Yes, it's a "scare", but one with some mean meat to it.

 If that one does mutate, it'll be a lot worse than the Spanish flu that 
killed millions world wide in the early 1900s.
It could, however, also mutate into harmlessness, or a flu with a 99.9% 
survival rate.


That one is a crap shoot, but with big losers if lucky sevens don't pop up 
on the mutation toss...and no vaccine can be made until it does what it's 
going to do, as there are too many viable and dangerous variants possible 
to engineer them all before hand.

It's a lot closer to really bad, than nothing to be concerned about.

 By then, with the time it takes to develop and make enough vaccine, 
[about 6 months with a 2 week vector world wide] we're toast, buddy.   No 
one knows how well done.


"Vaccines don't work"?  Never mind.  It's all over with.  Salt water 
doesn't stop drowning.


..and if "they" wanted to kill us all, they could.
The technology exists, now.

It's easy to kill everyone, a LOT harder to select who.
"They" ARE us...and they don't want to die off any more than we do.

On the other hand, if they can "engineer" a variant and have a vaccine 
ready on the sly...they could select a very very limited who.

 Problem:  What good is it to be the lords of an empty planet?
Problem:  Not enough people, its back to the stone age.
 Too many?  Back to the stone age by another means.
 Both winds up with not enough, in different ways.

...and expanding that who sufficiently, spills the beans...can't keep 
enough whos alive to make it worth while. [yet]




AIDs is already at work?  [ Maybe accident, maybe design..makes no 
difference to what it's doing. ] so why bother.


 Weird thing is, AIDs people might be able to survive the Bird Flu better 
than healthy people...then die later. [oops]


Question: How many people are prepared to endure total isolation for a year 
or more, or are in a position to accomplish it?
 Answer: Not enough. Most people live in cities and many won't stay there 
after the food supply dries up in a couple of days.


If the flu don't get you, starvation or hordes of hungry, scared and about 
to be very ill people, probably will.


Ode

At 07:51 PM 10/15/2007 +0100, you wrote:

But, Ode, hardly anyone dies of flue. Just a few extremely vulnerable 
people. Maybe with their windows shut, in a ground floor bungalow with no 
heating. It's an advertising scare, isn't it?


JOhn

--On 15 October 2007 10:26:25 -0400 Ode Coyote  wrote:



  I can go look at the slides and research, blow by blow "this does that"
with piles of repeatable evidence.
  You have to rely on an unfounded opinion being promoted by notoriously
ignorant "anti-believers" who *don't* used their heads as a "methodology".

"Anything that's opposite from a carefully selected partial truth is the
whole truth"
Sure, but only if you're a simpleton.

Well, believe this:
If you have the flu, you have no right to go out in public, much less
transport people around.
Doing so is irresponsible, if not illegal.

That you "can" is a dangerous oversight, not a right. [unless you are a
mosquito with no choice but to bite and get flattened for it.]

You can refuse a vaccination, but then, stay at home making it "your"
problem and not many many other peoples problem.
In the case of "life threatening" pandemic, it will be illegal and you
could "rightfully" get yourself shot if you le

Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Ode Coyote]

 On all flu strains?
 Never.

Ode



At 02:39 PM 10/15/2007 -0700, you wrote:


When did they make a flu shot that works?

Kurt




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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Ode Coyote]

 Silver IS being rediscovered in more effective forms as nano-technology 
and ion exchange technology are better understood though progression of 
discovery.

 You haven't noticed how many products it's being used in lately?
The list is a long one.

Even the "Pharm" is catching on.
As of around 5 years ago, a pharm research department head friend of mine 
was working on metallic nano particles.

That's all he would say.

Might have been touched off by a CS generator gift a year earlier.
I don't know, but he got pretty quiet after that.

 They aren't all  "turkeys" , you know.
You'd be surprised at how 'cool' some of these guys are,  just under the 
lab coats, nearly incomprehensible back deck  barbecue party conversations 
and triple PHD exteriors.


Ode


At 07:55 PM 10/15/2007 +0100, you wrote:


Discovery as a progression:

why not a rediscovery, as in the case of silver, which was forgotten 
largely, since Roman and Persian times?


If true, then this procession is more like a a dance troupe on their way 
back fro the pub doing a Micahael Jackson impersonation.


JOhn

--On 15 October 2007 11:06:04 -0400 Ode Coyote  wrote:


At 08:12 PM 10/12/2007 -0700, you wrote:


I see your point Ode..BUT it sure doesn't give whoever is producing
these  vaccines the right to put mercury and/or anyother extremely
harmful  additive to these vaccines that are causing havoc in the
unsuspecticing,  trusting publics,  bodies.debbie

##  No disagreement there...and they have stopped doing that now that the
##  issue has been studied some and found, even though the evidence
##  doesn't add up in the face of other more prevalent factors as relates
##  to the effects of "mercury" in nervous system 'development'...it's
##  still not a great idea to add to the environmental load and better
##  ways to preserve a vaccine now exist that may not have before.
ie: It's not the "vaccine" so much as it's the preservative IN the
vaccine.
And that amount of mercury has no effects on adults over and above the
"now normal" much higher levels of environmental mercury.
And even if that amount of mercury isn't "the" problem, adding that to
other "unavoidable" sources can be avoided...and IS being avoided as of a
couple of years ago...just on "general principle",  just in case and no
good reason not to since the development of better preservatives.

Discovery, is and always has been, a progression...or...the Romans had no
right to use lead plumbing and radioactive glaze was  put on FiestaWare
for the express purpose of giving people cancer.

PS  Radium glaze was discontinued, not because it "gave" people cancer,
but because it "possibly" could and wasn't necessary.  It *was* used
because  there *was* no known reason not to use it, and it was pretty.
Was, isn't is.Known and even suspected, does not predate, not known.

Ode

Ode


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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[William Missett]

Hey, flus do kill. I was in NYC in 2002 or so, when the "Australian flu" was
killing old folks, who were sick for weeks and months before dying.
Allopathic medicine had nothing to fight it off.  Since I almost qualified
as an "old folk," I was paying attention.

I caught it, and it was brutal, but I maxi-dosed with 90ppm Microdyn for
days, and killed it in a week. A very miserable week. Flus do kill.


- Original Message - 
From: "John Plumridge" 

To: 
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?



But, Ode, hardly anyone dies of flue. Just a few extremely vulnerable
people. Maybe with their windows shut, in a ground floor bungalow with no
heating. It's an advertising scare, isn't it?

JOhn

--On 15 October 2007 10:26:25 -0400 Ode Coyote 
wrote:



  I can go look at the slides and research, blow by blow "this does that"
with piles of repeatable evidence.
  You have to rely on an unfounded opinion being promoted by notoriously
ignorant "anti-believers" who *don't* used their heads as a
"methodology".

"Anything that's opposite from a carefully selected partial truth is the
whole truth"
Sure, but only if you're a simpleton.

Well, believe this:
If you have the flu, you have no right to go out in public, much less
transport people around.
Doing so is irresponsible, if not illegal.

That you "can" is a dangerous oversight, not a right. [unless you are a
mosquito with no choice but to bite and get flattened for it.]

You can refuse a vaccination, but then, stay at home making it "your"
problem and not many many other peoples problem.
In the case of "life threatening" pandemic, it will be illegal and you
could "rightfully" get yourself shot if you leave home.
If by chance the vaccination doesn't work, at least you've taken the
steps than can be taken to prevent transmission, vs, no steps at all...or
anti-steps.

That some vaccinations might not work "as advertised" doesn't mean none
do, at least, "something".

I'll betcha that when you see some people around you dropping like flies
and some not, you'll be wondering why, then.

If *everybody* corks off, THEN you can feel real safe about being "right"
about not taking the least risky course of action amid an overwhelming
danger.

In a battlefield, not too many people worry about being allergic to body
armor and the bullet it doesn't stop has nothing to do with those it did
stop when deciding if body armor works or not.

Imperfect doesn't mean useless. [except to fanatical anti believers ]

ode


At 04:02 PM 10/12/2007 -0400, you wrote:


Regardless of unproven "bullshit", Does any transport person have the
right to be a disease carrier?


YES, Ode, I have the ABSOLUTE RIGHT to live my life free from being
assaulted with a deadly weapon by you just because you have some
undefined, unproven FEAR that something that I might or might not be
carrying might or might not be dangerous to you.


You are saying that the smallpox vaccine hasn't eliminated smallpox?
..That cowpox antibodies don't immunize from smallpox?


Yep - thats what I'm saying. If you believe it does, then you have
fallen  for their FUD.


Which vaccines work and which don't and that some vaccines may be
harmful  to some people for different reasons, may be questionable,


Nope... not questionable. NONE of them work, and they are ALL harmful.

PERIOD.


but the whole field of vaccination is pretty much an over all proven
success with centuries of experience to back it up.


Yep - you've fallen for their lies/FUD.

And as for the rest, fyi - wikipedia is nice as a BEGINNING reference
for  researching things - but just because something is in wikipedia
doesn't  make it true.

Some of those links refer NOT to modern 'vaccines', but a process
similar  to homeopathy, and may indeed have been beneficial to an
extent... but it  bears ZERO resemblance to the modern day nightmare
that is 'vaccines'.

Pasteur was a fraud - read up on Antoine Bechamp...


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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Kurt Milkowski]

When did they make a flu shot that works? 
   
  Kurt

Ode Coyote  wrote:
  
I can go look at the slides and research, blow by blow "this does that" 
with piles of repeatable evidence.
You have to rely on an unfounded opinion being promoted by notoriously 
ignorant "anti-believers" who *don't* used their heads as a "methodology".

"Anything that's opposite from a carefully selected partial truth is the 
whole truth"
Sure, but only if you're a simpleton.

Well, believe this:
If you have the flu, you have no right to go out in public, much less 
transport people around.
Doing so is irresponsible, if not illegal.

That you "can" is a dangerous oversight, not a right. [unless you are a 
mosquito with no choice but to bite and get flattened for it.]

You can refuse a vaccination, but then, stay at home making it "your" 
problem and not many many other peoples problem.
In the case of "life threatening" pandemic, it will be illegal and you 
could "rightfully" get yourself shot if you leave home.
If by chance the vaccination doesn't work, at least you've taken the steps 
than can be taken to prevent transmission, vs, no steps at all...or anti-steps.

That some vaccinations might not work "as advertised" doesn't mean none do, 
at least, "something".

I'll betcha that when you see some people around you dropping like flies 
and some not, you'll be wondering why, then.

If *everybody* corks off, THEN you can feel real safe about being "right" 
about not taking the least risky course of action amid an overwhelming danger.

In a battlefield, not too many people worry about being allergic to body 
armor and the bullet it doesn't stop has nothing to do with those it did 
stop when deciding if body armor works or not.

Imperfect doesn't mean useless. [except to fanatical anti believers ]

ode


At 04:02 PM 10/12/2007 -0400, you wrote:

>>Regardless of unproven "bullshit", Does any transport person have the 
>>right to be a disease carrier?
>
>YES, Ode, I have the ABSOLUTE RIGHT to live my life free from being 
>assaulted with a deadly weapon by you just because you have some 
>undefined, unproven FEAR that something that I might or might not be 
>carrying might or might not be dangerous to you.
>
>>You are saying that the smallpox vaccine hasn't eliminated smallpox?
>>..That cowpox antibodies don't immunize from smallpox?
>
>Yep - thats what I'm saying. If you believe it does, then you have fallen 
>for their FUD.
>
>>Which vaccines work and which don't and that some vaccines may be harmful 
>>to some people for different reasons, may be questionable,
>
>Nope... not questionable. NONE of them work, and they are ALL harmful.
>
>PERIOD.
>
>>but the whole field of vaccination is pretty much an over all proven 
>>success with centuries of experience to back it up.
>
>Yep - you've fallen for their lies/FUD.
>
>And as for the rest, fyi - wikipedia is nice as a BEGINNING reference for 
>researching things - but just because something is in wikipedia doesn't 
>make it true.
>
>Some of those links refer NOT to modern 'vaccines', but a process similar 
>to homeopathy, and may indeed have been beneficial to an extent... but it 
>bears ZERO resemblance to the modern day nightmare that is 'vaccines'.
>
>Pasteur was a fraud - read up on Antoine Bechamp...
>
>
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>The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
>
>Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org
>
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>
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>
>List maintainer: Mike Devour 
>
>
>
>
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>269.14.10/1070 - Release Date: 10/14/2007 9:22 AM
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>
>
>
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>269.14.10/1070 - Release Date: 10/14/2007 9:22 AM



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9:22 AM

Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[John Plumridge]

But, Ode, hardly anyone dies of flue. Just a few extremely vulnerable 
people. Maybe with their windows shut, in a ground floor bungalow with no 
heating. It's an advertising scare, isn't it?


JOhn

--On 15 October 2007 10:26:25 -0400 Ode Coyote  wrote:



  I can go look at the slides and research, blow by blow "this does that"
with piles of repeatable evidence.
  You have to rely on an unfounded opinion being promoted by notoriously
ignorant "anti-believers" who *don't* used their heads as a "methodology".

"Anything that's opposite from a carefully selected partial truth is the
whole truth"
Sure, but only if you're a simpleton.

Well, believe this:
If you have the flu, you have no right to go out in public, much less
transport people around.
Doing so is irresponsible, if not illegal.

That you "can" is a dangerous oversight, not a right. [unless you are a
mosquito with no choice but to bite and get flattened for it.]

You can refuse a vaccination, but then, stay at home making it "your"
problem and not many many other peoples problem.
In the case of "life threatening" pandemic, it will be illegal and you
could "rightfully" get yourself shot if you leave home.
If by chance the vaccination doesn't work, at least you've taken the
steps than can be taken to prevent transmission, vs, no steps at all...or
anti-steps.

That some vaccinations might not work "as advertised" doesn't mean none
do, at least, "something".

I'll betcha that when you see some people around you dropping like flies
and some not, you'll be wondering why, then.

If *everybody* corks off, THEN you can feel real safe about being "right"
about not taking the least risky course of action amid an overwhelming
danger.

In a battlefield, not too many people worry about being allergic to body
armor and the bullet it doesn't stop has nothing to do with those it did
stop when deciding if body armor works or not.

Imperfect doesn't mean useless. [except to fanatical anti believers ]

ode


At 04:02 PM 10/12/2007 -0400, you wrote:


Regardless of unproven "bullshit", Does any transport person have the
right to be a disease carrier?


YES, Ode, I have the ABSOLUTE RIGHT to live my life free from being
assaulted with a deadly weapon by you just because you have some
undefined, unproven FEAR that something that I might or might not be
carrying might or might not be dangerous to you.


You are saying that the smallpox vaccine hasn't eliminated smallpox?
..That cowpox antibodies don't immunize from smallpox?


Yep - thats what I'm saying. If you believe it does, then you have
fallen  for their FUD.


Which vaccines work and which don't and that some vaccines may be
harmful  to some people for different reasons, may be questionable,


Nope... not questionable. NONE of them work, and they are ALL harmful.

PERIOD.


but the whole field of vaccination is pretty much an over all proven
success with centuries of experience to back it up.


Yep - you've fallen for their lies/FUD.

And as for the rest, fyi - wikipedia is nice as a BEGINNING reference
for  researching things - but just because something is in wikipedia
doesn't  make it true.

Some of those links refer NOT to modern 'vaccines', but a process
similar  to homeopathy, and may indeed have been beneficial to an
extent... but it  bears ZERO resemblance to the modern day nightmare
that is 'vaccines'.

Pasteur was a fraud - read up on Antoine Bechamp...


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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[John Plumridge]

Discovery as a progression:

why not a rediscovery, as in the case of silver, which was forgotten 
largely, since Roman and Persian times?


If true, then this procession is more like a a dance troupe on their way 
back fro the pub doing a Micahael Jackson impersonation.


JOhn

--On 15 October 2007 11:06:04 -0400 Ode Coyote  wrote:


At 08:12 PM 10/12/2007 -0700, you wrote:


I see your point Ode..BUT it sure doesn't give whoever is producing
these  vaccines the right to put mercury and/or anyother extremely
harmful  additive to these vaccines that are causing havoc in the
unsuspecticing,  trusting publics,  bodies.debbie

##  No disagreement there...and they have stopped doing that now that the
##  issue has been studied some and found, even though the evidence
##  doesn't add up in the face of other more prevalent factors as relates
##  to the effects of "mercury" in nervous system 'development'...it's
##  still not a great idea to add to the environmental load and better
##  ways to preserve a vaccine now exist that may not have before.
ie: It's not the "vaccine" so much as it's the preservative IN the
vaccine.
And that amount of mercury has no effects on adults over and above the
"now normal" much higher levels of environmental mercury.
And even if that amount of mercury isn't "the" problem, adding that to
other "unavoidable" sources can be avoided...and IS being avoided as of a
couple of years ago...just on "general principle",  just in case and no
good reason not to since the development of better preservatives.

Discovery, is and always has been, a progression...or...the Romans had no
right to use lead plumbing and radioactive glaze was  put on FiestaWare
for the express purpose of giving people cancer.

PS  Radium glaze was discontinued, not because it "gave" people cancer,
but because it "possibly" could and wasn't necessary.  It *was* used
because  there *was* no known reason not to use it, and it was pretty.
Was, isn't is.Known and even suspected, does not predate, not known.

Ode

Ode


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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Ode Coyote]

At 09:36 AM 10/12/2007 -0700, you wrote:

Believe that crap they will tell you more. Take a look,a good look at what 
vaccines are all about. Vaccines have never eliminated anything from 
anyone. Woder why the Amish have never ever had an autistic child? Because 
they don't vaccinate.
##  The incidences of autism is linked to ***mercury*** "IN" vaccines, not 
any "vaccine".

 Make the distinction and the statement may have a chance of believability.

 Better check on that Amish statistic.  There are many sources of mercury 
in the environment and the Amish don't report much of anything to anyone.
They also don't tend to live near where mercury waste product emissions are 
a big environmental problem.


The incidences of autism as a percentage *seems* to have gone up with more 
vaccinations.
Not only is that debatable, but if the *mercury link* holds, so has mercury 
pollution gone up dramatically and since the control population of non 
vaccinated has become almost nonexistent, it's trying to prove a negative 
by lack of evidence.

That just doesn't hold water, never did, never will.

Take a look at the gulf war vets. Gulf war syndrome, which is basically 
ALS or Lou gehrigs disease, didn't show up in a single french soldier. 
Why? because they weren't vaccinated!! By the way more soldiers have died 
as a result of the gulf war than died during Viet Nam. If you have been 
vaccinated you ARE carrying a disease, not the other way around.


##  How many French soldiers were there "in harms way", compared to the 
percentage odds of  having developed GWS ...and it starts looking like 
"dodged the bullet" by sheer lack of numbers in the wrong places could be 
the difference.
The cause of GWS has not been established and it *could be* a result of 
biowar or simply really bad air pollution.
 How many French soldiers were living under the smoke screen of burning 
oil wells?  Would that be zero?
The entire casualty numbers over the entire Iraq debacle have not matched a 
single battle in the Vietnam war, in some cases.
Over 6 years, only a little over 4,000 have died in the deserts.   Many 
"battles" in WW2 killed over 30,000 in less than a week.
Now, 4000+ is way too many, but get a "grip", how about it.  That's almost 
nothing in comparison.


"By the way more soldiers have died as a result of the gulf war than died 
during Viet Nam."


Not even possible.
  50,000 or so died in Vietnam and many more suffered later from Dioxin 
poisoning before Dioxin was even a well known substance, therefore, not 
even looked for as a "byproduct" of making defoliants.
The EPA lists Diesel trucks as a major source of atmospheric 
Dioxins.  "Burning oil well connection" to GWS?  Dioxin poisoning "maybe" ?


Just saying it's "all vaccines" when there are so many other possibilities 
is just not all that intelligentbut it IS "easy".


Just saying that "vaccines don't work" is going up against several 
centuries of experience that says otherwise and a whole field of 
micro-biology with documented details.


Every pandemic outbreak of anything shows rises and declines, but they also 
show repeats over a period of time.

Where is the polio repeat since the vaccine?
 What happened to the smallpox outbreaks that have been repeating for 
millennia, wiping out whole civilizations?


That "some people" have problems handing a live but weakened virus strain, 
that some vaccines were made badly, doesn't eliminate the whole field of 
vaccination as effective.

It makes it "imperfect" with an element of unpredictability.
Like people.

No matter what is done, some percentage is going to have a problem.
That's a "given".
 The question is, how many have a problem if nothing is done?
 Are you willing to kill the majority to save the minority? [even if doing 
nothing, would do that ]
 Well, nothing WASN'T done, across the board, in both environmental 
pollution control AND medical fields, so we'll just never know, because the 
alternative didn't happen, to study and find out anything at all about.


AUTISM OCCURRENCE: One in every 150 children born in the US have autism. It 
is estimated approximately 1 million in the US have this disorder.
 ## 1 million out of 300 million?  Sounds bad and *mercury* in vaccines 
might be part of it [and has been eliminated from all 'new' stocks and 
Autism is a developmental problem that doesn't affect adults, so old stocks 
aren't being used on 12 and under as of 2005], but what else is and has 
been going on?


By the year 2000, the infant mortality rate had dropped to 6.9 per 1000 
(Kochanek & Martin, 2005, p. 108) and the fetal mortality rate (greater 
than 20 weeks) had dropped to 6.61 per 1000 (MacDorman, Hoyert, Martin, 
Munson & Hamilton, 2007, p. 3).  This gives us roughly 82 per 1030 
additional infants who were born in 2000 in the United States who wouldn't 
have survived if they had been born in 1933. [Before wide spread 
vaccinations]  If we use an estimate of 6 per 1000 of people on the 
autistic s

Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Ode Coyote]

On the other hand, many are battle veterans themselves.

Ode

At 05:33 AM 10/13/2007 -0700, you wrote:


Hey Kurt ~
Just as govt representatives who sanction warsdon't send their kids 
off to fight in the  front lines.  They appeal to and rely upon the easily 
manipulated emotions of the masses to do their bidding and generate profits.




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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Ode Coyote]

At 10:16 PM 10/12/2007 -0400, you wrote:


Gee, Simon.  Sounds like you might need a rabies shot...


Yeah, I know - I don't tolerate ignorance with respect to such dangerous 
things very well.



## Yea,  just the even more dangerous things without employing distinctions.

ode




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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Ode Coyote]

At 08:12 PM 10/12/2007 -0700, you wrote:

I see your point Ode..BUT it sure doesn't give whoever is producing these 
vaccines the right to put mercury and/or anyother extremely harmful 
additive to these vaccines that are causing havoc in the unsuspecticing, 
trusting publics,  bodies.debbie
##  No disagreement there...and they have stopped doing that now that the 
issue has been studied some and found, even though the evidence doesn't add 
up in the face of other more prevalent factors as relates to the effects of 
"mercury" in nervous system 'development'...it's still not a great idea to 
add to the environmental load and better ways to preserve a vaccine now 
exist that may not have before.

ie: It's not the "vaccine" so much as it's the preservative IN the vaccine.
And that amount of mercury has no effects on adults over and above the "now 
normal" much higher levels of environmental mercury.
And even if that amount of mercury isn't "the" problem, adding that to 
other "unavoidable" sources can be avoided...and IS being avoided as of a 
couple of years ago...just on "general principle",  just in case and no 
good reason not to since the development of better preservatives.


Discovery, is and always has been, a progression...or...the Romans had no 
right to use lead plumbing and radioactive glaze was  put on FiestaWare for 
the express purpose of giving people cancer.


PS  Radium glaze was discontinued, not because it "gave" people cancer, but 
because it "possibly" could and wasn't necessary.  It *was* used 
because  there *was* no known reason not to use it, and it was pretty.

Was, isn't is.Known and even suspected, does not predate, not known.

Ode

Ode


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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Ode Coyote]

 I can go look at the slides and research, blow by blow "this does that" 
with piles of repeatable evidence.
 You have to rely on an unfounded opinion being promoted by notoriously 
ignorant "anti-believers" who *don't* used their heads as a "methodology".


"Anything that's opposite from a carefully selected partial truth is the 
whole truth"

Sure, but only if you're a simpleton.

Well, believe this:
If you have the flu, you have no right to go out in public, much less 
transport people around.

Doing so is irresponsible, if not illegal.

That you "can" is a dangerous oversight, not a right. [unless you are a 
mosquito with no choice but to bite and get flattened for it.]


You can refuse a vaccination, but then, stay at home making it "your" 
problem and not many many other peoples problem.
In the case of "life threatening" pandemic, it will be illegal and you 
could "rightfully" get yourself shot if you leave home.
If by chance the vaccination doesn't work, at least you've taken the steps 
than can be taken to prevent transmission, vs, no steps at all...or anti-steps.


That some vaccinations might not work "as advertised" doesn't mean none do, 
at least, "something".


I'll betcha that when you see some people around you dropping like flies 
and some not, you'll be wondering why, then.


If *everybody* corks off, THEN you can feel real safe about being "right" 
about not taking the least risky course of action amid an overwhelming danger.


In a battlefield, not too many people worry about being allergic to body 
armor and the bullet it doesn't stop has nothing to do with those it did 
stop when deciding if body armor works or not.


Imperfect doesn't mean useless. [except to fanatical anti believers ]

ode


At 04:02 PM 10/12/2007 -0400, you wrote:

Regardless of unproven "bullshit", Does any transport person have the 
right to be a disease carrier?


YES, Ode, I have the ABSOLUTE RIGHT to live my life free from being 
assaulted with a deadly weapon by you just because you have some 
undefined, unproven FEAR that something that I might or might not be 
carrying might or might not be dangerous to you.



You are saying that the smallpox vaccine hasn't eliminated smallpox?
..That cowpox antibodies don't immunize from smallpox?


Yep - thats what I'm saying. If you believe it does, then you have fallen 
for their FUD.


Which vaccines work and which don't and that some vaccines may be harmful 
to some people for different reasons, may be questionable,


Nope... not questionable. NONE of them work, and they are ALL harmful.

PERIOD.

but the whole field of vaccination is pretty much an over all proven 
success with centuries of experience to back it up.


Yep - you've fallen for their lies/FUD.

And as for the rest, fyi - wikipedia is nice as a BEGINNING reference for 
researching things - but just because something is in wikipedia doesn't 
make it true.


Some of those links refer NOT to modern 'vaccines', but a process similar 
to homeopathy, and may indeed have been beneficial to an extent... but it 
bears ZERO resemblance to the modern day nightmare that is 'vaccines'.


Pasteur was a fraud - read up on Antoine Bechamp...


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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[John Plumridge]

That's precisely how it was described when I read about the two. Thanks for 
fishing that out.


--On 14 October 2007 01:19:19 -0400 Simon Jester 
 wrote:



On 10/13/2007 silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com wrote:

As regards Pasteur - he admitted on his deathbed that he was wrong,
and that Bechamp was right, that viruses are not airborne (in the
sense of having a life outside the body) and are death cells...living
cells in mutated form as part of decomposition of the body


This was certainly not the significant difference between the two
theories...

Pasteur supported the 'monomorphist' theory, Bechamp the 'pleomorphist'.

Pleomorphism states that a virus can morph - change - into a bacteria, or
a mold, and back again, and take on different forms (rod, spiro, etc),
all depending on the 'terrain'.

With Bechamp, 'the terrain is everything', the 'germ' is nothing. With
Pasteur, the terrain didn't matter - disease only came from outside the
body.

Bechamp proved that when the terrain is impaired (depressed immune system
due to poor eating habits, exposure to toxic chemicals, etc), disease
will 'appear' - and when the terrain is improved, disease disappears.


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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Tony Moody]

Hepa filter, ozonate, UV, de-ozonate (if necessary) .

On 14 Oct 2007 at 1:41, John Plumridge wrote about :
Subject : Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

> Talking about flu vaccines, is there a vaccine for central heating
> with the window shut, hot shops , buses, trains and offices?
> 
> JOhn
> 
> --On 13 October 2007 05:33:47 -0700 Carol Ann 
> wrote:
> 
> > Hey Kurt ~
> > Just as govt representatives who sanction warsdon't send their
> > kids off to fight in the  front lines.  They appeal to and rely upon
> > the easily manipulated emotions of the masses to do their bidding
> > and generate profits.
> >
> > Kurt Milkowski  wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hey Carol Ann.
> > My guess is that he knows better than to take the shit as well!!!
> >
> > Kurt
> >
> > Carol Ann  wrote:
> >
> > Hi Kurt ~
> > Glad you caught the "good" doctor reference. :)  I
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards, Carol Ann ~ The only thing that is different is how you
> > think.. http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/archivepix.html
> >
> >
> > __
> > Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with
> > Yahoo! FareChase.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Carol Ann]

Hi John,
My post may have come across as indifferent and more callus than intended. 
Having been to some of what are considered among the most premier health 
centers in the US was a real catalyst  for me. If I had any semblance of being 
a cynic or skeptic before my personal experiences regarding the "health care" 
system, I roam among the vigilante genesis now.  I actually have come to the 
point where I laugh at  the term "health care". It is a misnomer. The question 
few really ask when initially seeking it  is what kind of health care.  Good, 
bad, indifferent. 

What I conveyed was my perspective on how human beings are treated by those 
they trust and pay monetarily, physically and emotionally,  to protect public 
health.  Given what I know now, I would NEVER have given consent to inoculate 
any of my children merely on a precautionary, status quo basis.  

John Plumridge  wrote: My children are 4 and 6 , have 
had no vaccinations whatsoever, are amongst 
the most healthy. Whatever that may mean to you. They may yet get struck 
down, I'll report back in twenty years or so. They could be disease 
carriers infecting everyone else, and not showing it themselves. BUt they 
aren't carrying the new forms yet to be born. And if you belive in your 
vaccinations, you have no cause to worry!

JOhn

--On 13 October 2007 03:34:53 -0700 Carol Ann  
wrote:

>   I look at the vaccine programs.logically, with practicality and
> with no emotions...other than to say I think I understand why they exist
> and are sanctioned and promoted.  Seeding.
>
> Fact. There is a certain amount of longevity expected from any commodity.
> Human beings included. All units of production, especially the non
> organic  are designed, more often than not,  with varying degrees of
> built-in functional obsolescence. So as to require maintenance or
> replacement.   Modern society has rapidly become technically advanced. We
> now definitively know the world is not flat, that earth is not the center
> of the universe, and we no longer use leeches as a matter of routine for
> every medical diagnosis. The median age/life has been extended as a
> result.
>
> All societies exist in an economic vacuum with some thriving better than
> others -each creating its own standards.  Some Indigenous isolated
> societies want nothing to do with modern civilizations trappings, some
> imperialistic  cultures believe that industry is prosperous and thus
> imperative and mandatory.
>
> Duality. From the cradle to the grave, in modernized countries
> especially, the carbon unit, not unlike a crop (human) is cultivated for
> highest production, thus maximum economic profits. The process begins at
> birth with immunizations followed with those yearly "check ups", at least
> until adulthood where they begin to wane.  During the prime of life
> (20's-40's) the unit produces the greatest benefits, ie.  pays the
> greatest taxes, insurance, has  expendable surplus income and creates
> prodigies (more working carbon units)  for the benefit of all. The
> individual family units thrive on emotion and govts capitalize on that
> emotion which they fuel with the fear.of loss.
>
>  As the unit ages  (50's onward) naturally, it produces less and begins
> to deteriorate.  However, at this juncture its capacity is still
> abundant, the only thing that has changed is its production profile. It
> still generates tremendous profits and our medical system and those
> dependent upon it by association are the greatest benefactors.   I notice
> that the good Dr. Jarvik is shamelessly pushing Lipitor, in his old age,
> in television commercials.
>
> Essentially, the decision, or option to be a disease carrier or not is
> one area that the government would like to seize and reign complete over.
> The government supposedly is created and exists for the people.In
> actuality,  unless  people can recite how govt altruistically exists for
> the people vs the perpetuity of the economic systems it governs, which
> are the main contributors to its longevity, vaccines in my opinion, have
> become intentionally designed  processes of  built-in economic
> obsolescence.
>
> My granddaughter is almost 2 and has not received the across the board,
> one shot suits all  garden variety vaccinations.   And I would lie or
> forge all necessary papers, if necessary,  to keep her brain free of
> mercury, thermisol and only the pharma companies know what viruses.
> Ain't nobody, has the right to diminish or rob her of her birth rights by
> inoculating her to protect someone else's economic status.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Deborah Gerard  wrote:
>
>  I see your point Ode..BUT it sure doesn't give whoever is producing
> these vaccines the right to put mercury and/or anyother extremely harmful
> additive to these vaccines that are causing havoc in the unsuspecticing,
> trusting publics,  bodies.debbie
>
> Ode Coyote  wrote:
>
> Regardless of unproven "bullshit", Does any transport person have the
> right

Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?[Carol]

[Kurt Milkowski]

Hey Carol,
   
  Is it that obvious that I recently had a birthday? !!!
   
  Kurt

Carol Ann  wrote:
  Hey Kurt ~
A belated birthday message. 
I'd venture to say that as each new day begins and people awaken to greater 
awareness, that day can be equated with a new birth day.  And our world becomes 
less sick.  

Kurt Milkowski  wrote:  Welcome to sickworld 
everybody!

Carol Ann  wrote:   Hey Kurt ~ 
Just as govt representatives who sanction warsdon't send their kids off to 
fight in the  front lines.  They appeal to and rely upon the easily manipulated 
emotions of the masses to do their bidding and generate profits. 

Kurt Milkowski  wrote: Hey Carol Ann.
  My guess is that he knows better than to take the shit as well!!!
   
  Kurt

Carol Ann  wrote:
  Hi Kurt ~
Glad you caught the "good" doctor reference. :)  I 



Regards, Carol Ann ~ The only thing that is different is how you think..
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/archivepix.html 
-
  Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! 
FareChase.




Regards, Carol Ann ~ The only thing that is different is how you think..
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/archivepix.html
-
  Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! 
FareChase.

Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Kurt Milkowski]

Whatever it takes.

Clayton Family  wrote:  maybe it is the "let's shove this 
down their throats" part.

On Oct 13, 2007, at 5:09 AM, Kurt Milkowski wrote:

> Hey Simon,
>  
> What part do you think they aren't getting?
>  
> Kurt
>
> Simon Jester wrote:
>> > We do need a vaccine against rabies, I think. There have been a few
>> > cases of rabid wild animals coming into yards in this state (SC).
>> > You might never know if your dog had been bitten.
>>
>> Repeat after me...
>>
>> VACCINES ... DON'T ... WORK ...


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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[John Plumridge]

My children are 4 and 6 , have had no vaccinations whatsoever, are amongst 
the most healthy. Whatever that may mean to you. They may yet get struck 
down, I'll report back in twenty years or so. They could be disease 
carriers infecting everyone else, and not showing it themselves. BUt they 
aren't carrying the new forms yet to be born. And if you belive in your 
vaccinations, you have no cause to worry!


JOhn

--On 13 October 2007 03:34:53 -0700 Carol Ann  
wrote:



  I look at the vaccine programs.logically, with practicality and
with no emotions...other than to say I think I understand why they exist
and are sanctioned and promoted.  Seeding.

Fact. There is a certain amount of longevity expected from any commodity.
Human beings included. All units of production, especially the non
organic  are designed, more often than not,  with varying degrees of
built-in functional obsolescence. So as to require maintenance or
replacement.   Modern society has rapidly become technically advanced. We
now definitively know the world is not flat, that earth is not the center
of the universe, and we no longer use leeches as a matter of routine for
every medical diagnosis. The median age/life has been extended as a
result.

All societies exist in an economic vacuum with some thriving better than
others -each creating its own standards.  Some Indigenous isolated
societies want nothing to do with modern civilizations trappings, some
imperialistic  cultures believe that industry is prosperous and thus
imperative and mandatory.

Duality. From the cradle to the grave, in modernized countries
especially, the carbon unit, not unlike a crop (human) is cultivated for
highest production, thus maximum economic profits. The process begins at
birth with immunizations followed with those yearly "check ups", at least
until adulthood where they begin to wane.  During the prime of life
(20's-40's) the unit produces the greatest benefits, ie.  pays the
greatest taxes, insurance, has  expendable surplus income and creates
prodigies (more working carbon units)  for the benefit of all. The
individual family units thrive on emotion and govts capitalize on that
emotion which they fuel with the fear.of loss.

 As the unit ages  (50's onward) naturally, it produces less and begins
to deteriorate.  However, at this juncture its capacity is still
abundant, the only thing that has changed is its production profile. It
still generates tremendous profits and our medical system and those
dependent upon it by association are the greatest benefactors.   I notice
that the good Dr. Jarvik is shamelessly pushing Lipitor, in his old age,
in television commercials.

Essentially, the decision, or option to be a disease carrier or not is
one area that the government would like to seize and reign complete over.
The government supposedly is created and exists for the people.In
actuality,  unless  people can recite how govt altruistically exists for
the people vs the perpetuity of the economic systems it governs, which
are the main contributors to its longevity, vaccines in my opinion, have
become intentionally designed  processes of  built-in economic
obsolescence.

My granddaughter is almost 2 and has not received the across the board,
one shot suits all  garden variety vaccinations.   And I would lie or
forge all necessary papers, if necessary,  to keep her brain free of
mercury, thermisol and only the pharma companies know what viruses.
Ain't nobody, has the right to diminish or rob her of her birth rights by
inoculating her to protect someone else's economic status.






Deborah Gerard  wrote:

 I see your point Ode..BUT it sure doesn't give whoever is producing
these vaccines the right to put mercury and/or anyother extremely harmful
additive to these vaccines that are causing havoc in the unsuspecticing,
trusting publics,  bodies.debbie

Ode Coyote  wrote:

Regardless of unproven "bullshit", Does any transport person have the
right to be a disease carrier?






Regards, Carol Ann ~ The only thing that is different is how you think..
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/archivepix.html


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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[John Plumridge]

Talking about flu vaccines, is there a vaccine for central heating with the 
window shut, hot shops , buses, trains and offices?


JOhn

--On 13 October 2007 05:33:47 -0700 Carol Ann  
wrote:



Hey Kurt ~
Just as govt representatives who sanction warsdon't send their kids
off to fight in the  front lines.  They appeal to and rely upon the
easily manipulated emotions of the masses to do their bidding and
generate profits.

Kurt Milkowski  wrote:


Hey Carol Ann.
My guess is that he knows better than to take the shit as well!!!

Kurt

Carol Ann  wrote:

Hi Kurt ~
Glad you caught the "good" doctor reference. :)  I





Regards, Carol Ann ~ The only thing that is different is how you think..
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/archivepix.html


__
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FareChase.





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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[John Plumridge]

Well, I qustioned my brother. a medical surgeon on this case of smallpox: I 
simply couldn't believe that every person who may carry smallpox in 
expresed and unexpressed form could have beeen covered, and the germ 
eliminated. He admitted that the forms vary, and incubation and expression 
in people. MOreover, when I posed the question that smallpox must change 
form quite quickly, as well as have variants, he admitted that any new 
forms are simply given another name, other than smallpox.


Furthermore, there was news about two years ago, that indeed there are 
outbreaks of smallpox - but these are monitored and contained - a kind of 
refinement to the ideal of 'wiping out smallpox'. Belive that if you will.


As regards Pasteur - he admitted on his deathbed that he was wrong, and 
that Bechamp was right, that viruses are not airborne (in the sense of 
having a life outside the body) and are death cells...living cells in 
mutated form as part of decomposition of the bodyBechamp was the 
gentleman, a genius i would agree, whose work Pasteur plagiarised, although 
he denied its value particularly at first contradicting it.


There does seem srtong evidence that for certain forms, contact with a weak 
form evokes resistance, but then one could postulate that those weak forms 
are abundant in the environment any way, so why inoculate?


Before answers are given, consider that studies don't consider that weak 
forms in weak people are strong forms, or conversely, strong forms in 
strong bodies are not so strong. In other words, they don't take into 
account the variance in optimal immune system functioning in the general 
population. You can see this particularly in the superhuman hype about 
wiping smallpox off the face of the earth.


If death viruses are natural functions of death, or dying body (analogous 
with moulds, as an example - but not identical), then we are wasting our 
time in vanity  because death is natural and we can't eradicate that. 
Worse, we are introducing risk to the vulnerable, not helping the less 
vulnerable, and so forth.


What we need to be doing is measuring the success of the smallpox program 
against the success of smallpox in its new forms, and so negating a kind of 
lie, or naive belief.
What is clear, is that determine which virus to label as smallpox and which 
not, is a matter of politics. And this is only one kind of deceit in the 
game, which has a complicated picture.
For example, hospital airborne mrsa...well it may be airborne in hospitals, 
but why not elsewhere`? Precisely because there is no good air in 
Hospitals. Windows are a thing of the past.
It was Florence Nightingale who flatly denied that viruses are airborne, 
but that a clean and airy ward was essential for her patients, including 
those with infections like TB. Her record was incredible. The point here is 
that viruses don't survive well in good air, such being essential to 
healthy living (though not advertised, bought or sold...yet), not hailed as 
a medical breakthrough.
Hospitals are in the position of distrusting the 'whole system' of air, and 
try to cerate their own mini-system, but produce the worst cases of virus 
contagion.


JOhn


--On 12 October 2007 11:48:39 -0400 Ode Coyote  wrote:


   Regardless of unproven "bullshit", Does any transport person have the
right to be a disease carrier?

You are saying that the smallpox vaccine hasn't eliminated smallpox?
..That cowpox antibodies don't immunize from smallpox?

  Which vaccines work and which don't and that some vaccines may be
harmful to some people for different reasons, may be questionable,  but
the whole field of vaccination is pretty much an over all proven success
with centuries of experience to back it up.

Smallpox inoculation was
started in India or
China before 200
BC.[1] In
1718,
Lady Mary
Wortley Montague reported that the
Turks have a habit of deliberately
inoculating themselves with fluid taken from mild cases of smallpox and
she inoculated her own
children.[
2] In 1796
Edward Jenner inoculated
using cowpox (a mild relative of the
deadly smallpox virus). Pasteur and
others built on this

Ode

At 02:38 PM 10/11/2007 -0400, you wrote:


I don't think they can force you to take a vaccine, but they can
constitutionally en force a quarantine.


No, they can't - but they can UNconstitutinally enforce one.


If you aren't vaccinated, you disqualify yourself from being an
enforcer  or having any part in a transport operation, beco

Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[John Plumridge]

I have to agree, with you Kurt: we need to really elevate the belief in, 
and knowledge about our immune systems  (some ground has been gained but 
not enough), one step higher. It is the only thing. Al else is fools' 
tampering, and dulling our powers and senses. A decent medical system takes 
into account diet and whole foods as medicines, as well as constitution.. 
and reads pulse and other vital signs. A great example is Ayurveda.


JOhn

--On 12 October 2007 04:27:41 -0700 Kurt Milkowski 
 wrote:




Hey Pat,

Believe that lie and they'll tell you another one. Polio was on the
decline before they started sticking people with the needles. Actually
there was a spike in polio cases caused by the vaccines. That lie just
paved the way for the kooks to get people to line up for shots. When you
really investigate, the polio vaccine is the underlying cause of cancer!
Unfortunately people are similar to mushrooms, keep us in the dark and
feed us all kinds of bullshit and watch us grow.The only thing that can
now or ever could cure you of a disease is your God given immune system.
We have to stop believing the fairytales we have been told and do our
best to wake the other mushrooms.

Kurt

Pat  wrote:



I don't know if it's the same now, but years ago when I worked at the
hospital (dietary technician), all employees were required to have a
yearly chest x-ray and a TB test.  I had a positive TB test but always
wondered if it was because of the rough way the employee nurse jammed the
needle in.  Then I was required to take isoniazid for a year (which is
reasonable, I guess).  I got sick about six weeks later and the doctor
said it was hepatitis from the drug.  I stopped it a few weeks and when I
started back, it didn't make me sick again.  I suppose if I'd refused the
chest x-ray and TB test, I'd have been terminated.  Of course, that's a
whole different matter than the flu.

There aren't many vaccines I would take nowdays, but back in the day, I
suppose smallpox and polio vaccines were useful.  You don't see crippled
people nowdays like there used to be from polio.  The rabies vaccine is
effective, isn't it?


Pat


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RE: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[John Plumridge]

Yu may be right: an employers' adopted beliefs may be forced upon 
employees, who can't fight   such controversies easily, certainly alone. 
I'm talking about a complete public review of medical evidence. Even then, 
uncertainties are weighed in favour of the 'safety' mentality.
The idea that vaccination is a flawed theory (a la Bechamp vs. Pasteur) 
would not be easily put over in such a scenario.


But, I have this simple thought: If an employee is in contact with the 
public, who do not have an enforced vaccination, then , what on earth is 
the point, even discounting the obvious widespread controversy? There is 
ground there, surely?


JOhn

--On 12 October 2007 12:27:08 -0500 Dan Nave  
wrote:



This is all wishful thinking.

Just like a drug test, which is an absolute invasion of privacy, your
employer can probably require that you do this if you are going to work
there.  Your employer can basically fire you for anything except those
things that are specifically prohibited such as certain kinds of
discrimination.

I'm not saying this is fair or right.  I'm saying this is the way it
is...

Dan


-Original Message-
From: Simon Jester [mailto:tansta...@libertytrek.org]
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 1:39 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?


I don't think they can force you to take a vaccine, but they can
constitutionally en force a quarantine.


No, they can't - but they can UNconstitutinally enforce one.


If you aren't vaccinated, you disqualify yourself from being an
enforcer or having any part in a transport operation, becoming a
potential part of the problem vs part of any solution.


? Vaccines simply DON'T WORK. It appears you have fallen for the FUD?


No job and rightly so, but not force, just choice.  Work safe or stay
at home.


Bullshit... sorry, Ode, but this is ridiculous. No one has the 'Right'
to force someone to do something so ridiculous in order to keep a job.
Vaccines are one of the big cons - right up there with the income tax
and drivers licenses.


A vaccine costs everyone a lot less than a quarantine,


More bullshit. A vaccine won't prevent diddly.


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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Clayton Family]

maybe it is the "let's shove this down their throats" part.

On Oct 13, 2007, at 5:09 AM, Kurt Milkowski wrote:


Hey Simon,
 
What part do you think they aren't getting?
 
Kurt

Simon Jester  wrote:

> We do need a vaccine against rabies, I think. There have been a few
> cases of rabid wild animals coming into yards in this state (SC).
> You might never know if your dog had been bitten.

Repeat after me...

VACCINES ... DON'T ... WORK ...



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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?- live virus vacs

[Clayton Family]

This whole issue is from, as stated below, using a Live Virus for the 
vaccine. Live virus vaccines always have collateral casualties.  The 
decision to use them is based on the mistaken idea that the poor will 
not get vaccines, and since the live vv people will shed the live 
disease in the days and maybe weeks following vaccination, it is 
thought to give protection to the poor kids by giving them the weak 
form of the disease from the virus associated with the vac. This is 
called Protecting the Public Health.


My uncle nearly died from getting the flu vac when it first came out, 
it was a live vac.


Live whooping cough vacs also cause serious reactions and sometimes 
death in some babies that get them, but that risk is not associated 
with the Sauk type vacs, which are killed virus vacs.


In the old days, only killed virus vacs were preferred, as drs knew 
that injecting live virsus was a dangerous idea. Sabin refused to 
accept that, and kept at it until he produced a live virus vac, and for 
some political reason, it became the most used.


You can get flu vacs that are made with killed virus, and you can also 
get flu vacs made without thimerosol.  I did get a flu vac a few years 
ago, without all that, and my doc uses a new method of injecting a drop 
or 2 into the forarm under the skin. This has been shown to cause the 
same antibody response as the full shot.  Most docs do  not like to 
order special stuff, becasue they have to buy a whole bottle, and only 
use it for one person. But they can.  You might have more luck finding 
a dr that already uses them, you could try finding an environmental 
doc- there is a website for it, but I don't have the link.


Kathryn

On Oct 12, 2007, at 7:09 AM, Hanneke wrote:

 The outbreak was caused by the live polio virus that is used in 
vaccines given orally - the preferred method in developing countries 
because it is cheaper and doesn't require medical training to 
dispense.

 (for whole article see link below)
http://tinyurl.com/ys3nm4



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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Clayton Family]

Well, if you had been there while my aunt went nova about how vaccines  
have saved kids, you would believe it too. She had a cousin that died  
from lockjaw, which is unheard of now. It was a horrendous painful  
death for a child, and the whole family had to stand by and watch while  
it unfolded. No one dies of tetanus now in this country. This is only  
because of the shots.


Kathryn

On Oct 11, 2007, at 7:10 PM, Pat wrote:


There aren't many vaccines I would take nowdays, but back in the day,  
I suppose smallpox and polio vaccines were useful.  You don't see  
crippled people nowdays like there used to be from polio.  The rabies  
vaccine is effective, isn't it? 
    
 Pat



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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Carol Ann]

Hey Kurt ~
A belated birthday message. 
I'd venture to say that as each new day begins and people awaken to greater 
awareness, that day can be equated with a new birth day.  And our world becomes 
less sick.  

Kurt Milkowski  wrote: Welcome to sickworld 
everybody!

Carol Ann  wrote:  Hey Kurt ~ 
Just as govt representatives who sanction warsdon't send their kids off to 
fight in the  front lines.  They appeal to and rely upon the easily manipulated 
emotions of the masses to do their bidding and generate profits. 

Kurt Milkowski  wrote:Hey Carol Ann.
  My guess is that he knows better than to take the shit as well!!!
   
  Kurt

Carol Ann  wrote:
  Hi Kurt ~
Glad you  caught the "good" doctor reference. :)  I 



Regards, Carol Ann ~ The only thing that is different is how you think..
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/archivepix.html
-
  Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! 
FareChase.




Regards, Carol Ann ~ The only thing that is different is how you think..
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/archivepix.html
   
-
Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! 
FareChase.

Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Kurt Milkowski]

Welcome to sickworld everybody!

Carol Ann  wrote:  Hey Kurt ~ 
Just as govt representatives who sanction warsdon't send their kids off to 
fight in the  front lines.  They appeal to and rely upon the easily manipulated 
emotions of the masses to do their bidding and generate profits. 

Kurt Milkowski  wrote:Hey Carol Ann.
  My guess is that he knows better than to take the shit as well!!!
   
  Kurt

Carol Ann  wrote:
  Hi Kurt ~
Glad you caught the "good" doctor reference. :)  I 



Regards, Carol Ann ~ The only thing that is different is how you think..
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/archivepix.html
-
  Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! 
FareChase.

Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Carol Ann]

Hey Kurt ~ 
Just as govt representatives who sanction warsdon't send their kids off to 
fight in the  front lines.  They appeal to and rely upon the easily manipulated 
emotions of the masses to do their bidding and generate profits. 

Kurt Milkowski  wrote: Hey Carol Ann.
  My guess is that he knows better than to take the shit as well!!!
   
  Kurt

Carol Ann  wrote:
  Hi Kurt ~
Glad you caught the "good" doctor reference. :)  I 



Regards, Carol Ann ~ The only thing that is different is how you think..
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/archivepix.html
   
-
Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! 
FareChase.

Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Kurt Milkowski]

Hey Carol Ann.
  My guess is that he knows better than to take the shit as well!!!
   
  Kurt

Carol Ann  wrote:
  Hi Kurt ~
Glad you caught the "good" doctor reference. :)  It was actually  tongue in 
cheek comment.  But,  the reality cannot be lost or overlooked in that 
generally,  people see him  as the premier  authority and innovator.  Big 
pharma, like the designer industry is not stupid when it comes hawking products 
via generation association /  name recognition.   Ya wanna sell a SUV with all 
the bells and whistles to a hip hopper, your not gonna use the late Bob Barker 
as a spokesperson.  I figure Jarvic must own huge sums of Lipitor stock and the 
press lately, has not been all that good. 

Jarvic is an exemplary demonstration of an economic system functioning at its 
best and wading through their dis-info and profit inspired cesspool swamps  are 
difficult. Lets face it. "good" is really a word which becomes  a matter of 
objective or subjective perspective. For big pharma's agenda, Jarvic is good. 
Very good.

Otherwise, I completely agree with your engineering assessments. :)

Kurt Milkowski  wrote:Hey Carol Ann,
   
  Great piece of writing here. The only things I will disagree with is the 
median age extension and the "good' Doctor Jarvic. 




Regards, Carol Ann ~ The only thing that is different is how you think..
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/archivepix.html
-
  Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos. 

Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Carol Ann]

Hi Kurt ~
Glad you caught the "good" doctor reference. :)  It was actually  tongue in 
cheek comment.  But,  the reality cannot be lost or overlooked in that 
generally,  people see him  as the premier  authority and innovator.  Big 
pharma, like the designer industry is not stupid when it comes hawking products 
via generation association /  name recognition.Ya wanna sell a SUV with all 
the bells and whistles to a hip hopper, your not gonna use the late Bob Barker 
as a spokesperson.  I figure Jarvic must own huge sums of Lipitor stock and the 
press lately, has not been all that good. 

Jarvic is an exemplary demonstration of an economic system functioning at its 
best and wading through their dis-info and profit inspired cesspool swamps  are 
difficult.  Lets face it. "good" is really a word which becomes  a matter of 
objective or subjective perspective. For big pharma's agenda, Jarvic is good. 
Very good.

Otherwise, I completely agree with your engineering assessments. :)

Kurt Milkowski  wrote: Hey Carol Ann,
   
  Great piece of writing here. The only things I will disagree with is the 
median age extension and the "good' Doctor Jarvic. 




Regards, Carol Ann ~ The only thing that is different is how you think..
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/archivepix.html
   
-
Don't let your dream ride pass you by.Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos. 

Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Kurt Milkowski]

Hey Carol Ann,
   
  Great piece of writing here. The only things I will disagree with is the 
median age extension and the "good' Doctor Jarvic. The united states of 
amerika, currently ranks 42nd in longevity. That is not accidental it is by 
design. Vaccines and pharmaceuticals killed almost 800,000 last year, making 
modern medicine the leading cause of death, over cancer and heart disease. Now 
I factor in cancer and heart disease actually being caused by vaccinations, so 
when you add up the numbers it equals a shitload. Then if you really want to 
make things interesting, just add all these designer diseases together that are 
caused by nothing other than vaccines and you can really see whats going on 
here. Contrary to what we have been told people used to live longer without the 
"marvels" of modern medicine.
   
  As for the "good" Doctor Jarvic, whats so good about him? Having developed an 
artificial heart to make frankenmonsters out of us so we can make profits for 
hospitals, and doctors can enjoy a nice lifestyle? Again if we were left alone, 
not vaccinated, there would be no need for the shithead Doctor Jarvic. The part 
I believe you got right about him is that he is a pusher, pushing poison 
crapola from the pharm-mafia thats no good for anybody to take. So I don't see 
him as being good at all. Hopefully his ingestion of lipitor will be his demise.
   
  Kurt

Carol Ann  wrote:
I look at the vaccine programs.logically, with practicality and with no 
emotions...other than to say I think I understand why they exist and are 
sanctioned and promoted.  Seeding.

Fact. There is a certain amount of longevity expected from any commodity. 
Human beings included. All units of production, especially the non organic  are 
designed, more often than not,  with varying degrees of built-in functional 
obsolescence. So as to require maintenance or replacement.   Modern society has 
rapidly become technically advanced. We now definitively know the world is not 
flat, that earth is not the center of the universe, and we no longer use 
leeches as a matter of routine for every medical diagnosis. The median age/life 
has been extended as a result.

All societies exist in an economic vacuum with some thriving better than others 
-each creating its own standards.  Some Indigenous isolated societies want 
nothing to do with modern civilizations trappings, some imperialistic  cultures 
believe that industry is prosperous and thus imperative and mandatory.

Duality. From the cradle to the grave, in modernized countries especially, the 
carbon unit, not unlike a crop (human) is cultivated for highest production, 
thus maximum economic profits. The process begins at birth with immunizations 
followed with those yearly "check ups", at least until adulthood where they 
begin to wane.  During the prime of life (20's-40's) the unit produces the 
greatest benefits, ie.  pays the greatest taxes, insurance, has  expendable 
surplus income and creates  prodigies (more working carbon units)  for the 
benefit of all. The individual family units thrive on emotion and govts 
capitalize on that emotion which they fuel with the fear.of loss.

 As the unit ages  (50's onward) naturally, it produces less and begins to 
deteriorate.  However, at this juncture its capacity is still abundant, the 
only thing that has changed is its production profile. It still generates 
tremendous profits and our medical system and those dependent upon it by 
association are the greatest benefactors.   I notice that the good Dr. Jarvik 
is shamelessly pushing Lipitor, in his old age, in television commercials.

Essentially, the decision, or option to be a disease carrier or not is one area 
that the government would like to seize and reign complete over. The government 
supposedly is created and exists for the people.In actuality,  unless  
people can recite how govt altruistically exists for the people vs the 
perpetuity of the economic systems it governs, which are the main contributors 
to its longevity, vaccines in my opinion, have become intentionally designed  
processes of  built-in economic obsolescence. 

My granddaughter is almost 2 and has not received the across the board, one 
shot suits all  garden variety vaccinations.   And I would lie or forge all 
necessary papers, if necessary,  to keep her brain free of mercury, thermisol 
and only the pharma companies know what viruses.   Ain't nobody, has the right 
to diminish or rob her of her birth rights by   inoculating her to protect 
someone else's economic status. 






Deborah Gerard  wrote:  I see your point Ode..BUT it sure 
doesn't give whoever is producing these vaccines the right to put mercury 
and/or anyother extremely harmful additive to these vaccines that are causing 
havoc in the unsuspecticing, trusting publics,  bodies.debbie

Ode Coyote  wrote:   Regardless of unproven "bullshit", 
Does any transport person have the 
right to be a disease carrier?
 

Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Carol Ann]

  I look at the vaccine programs.logically, with practicality and with no 
emotions...other than to say I think I understand why they exist and are 
sanctioned and promoted.  Seeding.

Fact. There is a certain amount of longevity expected from any commodity. 
Human beings included. All units of production, especially the non organic  are 
designed, more often than not,  with varying degrees of built-in functional 
obsolescence. So as to require maintenance or replacement.   Modern society has 
rapidly become technically advanced. We now definitively know the world is not 
flat, that earth is not the center of the universe, and we no longer use 
leeches as a matter of routine for every medical diagnosis. The median age/life 
has been extended as a result.

All societies exist in an economic vacuum with some thriving better than others 
-each creating its own standards.  Some Indigenous isolated societies want 
nothing to do with modern civilizations trappings, some imperialistic  cultures 
believe that industry is prosperous and thus imperative and mandatory.

Duality. From the cradle to the grave, in modernized countries especially, the 
carbon unit, not unlike a crop (human) is cultivated for highest production, 
thus maximum economic profits. The process begins at birth with immunizations 
followed with those yearly "check ups", at least until adulthood where they 
begin to wane.  During the prime of life (20's-40's) the unit produces the 
greatest benefits, ie.  pays the greatest taxes, insurance, has  expendable 
surplus income and creates  prodigies (more working carbon units)  for the 
benefit of all. The individual family units thrive on emotion and govts 
capitalize on that emotion which they fuel with the fear.of loss.

 As the unit ages  (50's onward) naturally, it produces less and begins to 
deteriorate.  However, at this juncture its capacity is still abundant, the 
only thing that has changed is its production profile. It still generates 
tremendous profits and our medical system and those dependent upon it by 
association are the greatest benefactors.   I notice that the good Dr. Jarvik 
is shamelessly pushing Lipitor, in his old age, in television commercials.

Essentially, the decision, or option to be a disease carrier or not is one area 
that the government would like to seize and reign complete over. The government 
supposedly is created and exists for the people.In actuality,  unless  
people can recite how govt altruistically exists for the people vs the 
perpetuity of the economic systems it governs, which are the main contributors 
to its longevity, vaccines in my opinion, have become intentionally designed  
processes of  built-in economic obsolescence. 

My granddaughter is almost 2 and has not received the across the board, one 
shot suits all  garden variety vaccinations.   And I would lie or forge all 
necessary papers, if necessary,  to keep her brain free of mercury, thermisol 
and only the pharma companies know what viruses.   Ain't nobody, has the right 
to diminish or rob her of her birth rights by   inoculating her to protect 
someone else's economic status. 






Deborah Gerard  wrote: I see your point Ode..BUT it sure 
doesn't give whoever is producing these vaccines the right to put mercury 
and/or anyother extremely harmful additive to these vaccines that are causing 
havoc in the unsuspecticing, trusting publics,  bodies.debbie

Ode Coyote  wrote:  Regardless of unproven "bullshit", 
Does any transport person have the 
right to be a disease carrier?
 
  

Regards, Carol Ann ~ The only thing that is different is how you think..
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/archivepix.html
   
-
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect.  Join Yahoo!'s user panel 
and lay it on us.

Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Kurt Milkowski]

Hey Simon,
   
  What part do you think they aren't getting?
   
  Kurt

Simon Jester  wrote:
  > We do need a vaccine against rabies, I think. There have been a few 
> cases of rabid wild animals coming into yards in this state (SC). 
> You might never know if your dog had been bitten.

Repeat after me...

VACCINES ... DON'T ... WORK ...


--
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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Kurt Milkowski]

Hey Debbie,
  Tried to post a great piece yesterday but was informed it was too big. I will 
put up a few good links later on today.
   
  Kurt

Deborah Gerard  wrote:
  Kurt I would be very interested to see the info on the Amish and the ALS info 
and where you got it from...thanks much ...debbie

Kurt Milkowski  wrote: Believe that crap they 
will tell you more. Take a look,a good look at what vaccines are all about. 
Vaccines have never eliminated anything from anyone. Woder why the Amish have 
never ever had an autistic child? Because they don't vaccinate. Take a look at 
the gulf war vets. Gulf war syndrome, which is basically ALS or Lou gehrigs 
disease, didn't show up in a single french soldier. Why? because they weren't 
vaccinated!! By the way more soldiers have died as a result of the gulf war 
than died during Viet Nam. If you have been vaccinated you ARE carrying a 
disease, not the other way around.
   
  Kurt

Ode Coyote  wrote:
   
-
  Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! 
Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Jonathan B. Britten]

I would point out that the Amish also suffer from a high level of 
genetic disease, due to their shallow genetic pool.  Some participate 
in very high-tech genetic therapy programs, which would seem to against 
the "low-technology" lifestyle.   I was surprised and interested to 
learn about that.   It makes me wonder whether immunization refusal is 
universal among this community.   As for "Gulf War Syndrome," there's 
considerable evidence that it results from depleted uranium.





On Saturday, Oct 13, 2007, at 12:00 Asia/Tokyo, Deborah Gerard wrote:

Kurt I would be very interested to see the info on the Amish and the 
ALS info and where you got it from...thanks much ...debbie


Kurt Milkowski  wrote:

Believe that crap they will tell you more. Take a look,a good look at 
what vaccines are all about. Vaccines have never eliminated anything 
from anyone. Woder why the Amish have never ever had an autistic 
child? Because they don't vaccinate. Take a look at the gulf war vets. 
Gulf war syndrome, which is basically ALS or Lou gehrigs disease, 
didn't show up in a single french soldier. Why? because they weren't 
vaccinated!! By the way more soldiers have died as a result of the 
gulf war than died during Viet Nam. If you have been vaccinated you 
ARE carrying a disease, not the other way around.

 
Kurt

Ode Coyote  wrote:

 







Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at 
Yahoo! Games.


--
The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com

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List maintainer: Mike Devour 

Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Deborah Gerard]

I see your point Ode..BUT it sure doesn't give whoever is producing these 
vaccines the right to put mercury and/or anyother extremely harmful additive to 
these vaccines that are causing havoc in the unsuspecticing, trusting publics,  
bodies.debbie

Ode Coyote  wrote:  Regardless of unproven "bullshit", 
Does any transport person have the 
right to be a disease carrier?

You are saying that the smallpox vaccine hasn't eliminated smallpox?
..That cowpox antibodies don't immunize from smallpox?

Which vaccines work and which don't and that some vaccines may be harmful 
to some people for different reasons, may be questionable, but the whole 
field of vaccination is pretty much an over all proven success with 
centuries of experience to back it up.

Smallpox inoculation was started 
in India or 
China before 200 
BC.[1] In 
1718, 
Lady Mary Wortley 
Montague reported that the Turks have 
a habit of deliberately inoculating themselves with fluid taken from mild 
cases of smallpox and she inoculated her own 
children.[2] 
In 1796 
Edward Jenner inoculated using 
cowpox (a mild relative of the deadly 
smallpox virus). Pasteur and others 
built on this

Ode

At 02:38 PM 10/11/2007 -0400, you wrote:

>>I don't think they can force you to take a vaccine, but they can 
>>constitutionally en force a quarantine.
>
>No, they can't - but they can UNconstitutinally enforce one.
>
>>If you aren't vaccinated, you disqualify yourself from being an enforcer 
>>or having any part in a transport operation, becoming a potential part of 
>>the problem vs part of any solution.
>
>? Vaccines simply DON'T WORK. It appears you have fallen for the FUD?
>
>>No job and rightly so, but not force, just choice. Work safe or stay at 
>>home.
>
>Bullshit... sorry, Ode, but this is ridiculous. No one has the 'Right' to 
>force someone to do something so ridiculous in order to keep a job. 
>Vaccines are one of the big cons - right up there with the income tax and 
>drivers licenses.
>
>>A vaccine costs everyone a lot less than a quarantine,
>
>More bullshit. A vaccine won't prevent diddly.
>
>
>--
>The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
>
>Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org
>
>To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com
>
>Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com
>
>The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down...
>
>List maintainer: Mike Devour 
>
>
>
>
>--
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 
>269.14.8/1064 - Release Date: 10/11/2007 3:09 PM
>
>
>
>
>--
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 
>269.14.8/1064 - Release Date: 10/11/2007 3:09 PM



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.8/1064 - Release Date: 10/11/2007 
3:09 PM




   
-
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.
 Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. 

Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Deborah Gerard]

Kurt I would be very interested to see the info on the Amish and the ALS info 
and where you got it from...thanks much ...debbie

Kurt Milkowski  wrote:Believe that crap they 
will tell you more. Take a look,a good look at what vaccines are all about. 
Vaccines have never eliminated anything from anyone. Woder why the Amish have 
never ever had an autistic child? Because they don't vaccinate. Take a look at 
the gulf war vets. Gulf war syndrome, which is basically ALS or Lou gehrigs 
disease, didn't show up in a single french soldier. Why? because they weren't 
vaccinated!! By the way more soldiers have died as a result of the gulf war 
than died during Viet Nam. If you have been vaccinated you ARE carrying a 
disease, not the other way around.
   
  Kurt

Ode Coyote  wrote:
   
   
-
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! 
Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

RE: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Dan Nave]

Gee, Simon.  Sounds like you might need a rabies shot...

Dan

;-)) 

-Original Message-
From: Simon Jester [mailto:tansta...@libertytrek.org] 
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 3:03 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

> Regardless of unproven "bullshit", Does any transport person have the 
> right to be a disease carrier?

YES, Ode, I have the ABSOLUTE RIGHT to live my life free from being
assaulted with a deadly weapon by you just because you have some
undefined, unproven FEAR that something that I might or might not be
carrying might or might not be dangerous to you.

> You are saying that the smallpox vaccine hasn't eliminated smallpox?
> ..That cowpox antibodies don't immunize from smallpox?

Yep - thats what I'm saying. If you believe it does, then you have
fallen for their FUD.

> Which vaccines work and which don't and that some vaccines may be 
> harmful to some people for different reasons, may be questionable,

Nope... not questionable. NONE of them work, and they are ALL harmful.

PERIOD.

> but the whole field of vaccination is pretty much an over all proven 
> success with centuries of experience to back it up.

Yep - you've fallen for their lies/FUD.

And as for the rest, fyi - wikipedia is nice as a BEGINNING reference
for researching things - but just because something is in wikipedia
doesn't make it true.

Some of those links refer NOT to modern 'vaccines', but a process
similar to homeopathy, and may indeed have been beneficial to an
extent... but it bears ZERO resemblance to the modern day nightmare that
is 'vaccines'.

Pasteur was a fraud - read up on Antoine Bechamp...


--
The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org

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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Pat]

We do need a vaccine against rabies, I think.  There have been a few cases of 
rabid wild animals coming into yards in this state (SC).  You might never know 
if your dog had been bitten.


Pat


 > The rabies vaccine is effective, isn't it?

How would you or anyone know? How would you test it? I have no desire 
to... besides, it is easily treated now, so no need for the *always* 
questionable vaccine...










  

Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, 
and more!
http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/3658 

RE: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Dan Nave]

This is all wishful thinking.

Just like a drug test, which is an absolute invasion of privacy, your
employer can probably require that you do this if you are going to work
there.  Your employer can basically fire you for anything except those
things that are specifically prohibited such as certain kinds of
discrimination.

I'm not saying this is fair or right.  I'm saying this is the way it
is...

Dan


-Original Message-
From: Simon Jester [mailto:tansta...@libertytrek.org] 
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 1:39 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

> I don't think they can force you to take a vaccine, but they can 
> constitutionally en force a quarantine.

No, they can't - but they can UNconstitutinally enforce one.

> If you aren't vaccinated, you disqualify yourself from being an 
> enforcer or having any part in a transport operation, becoming a 
> potential part of the problem vs part of any solution.

? Vaccines simply DON'T WORK. It appears you have fallen for the FUD?

> No job and rightly so, but not force, just choice.  Work safe or stay 
> at home.

Bullshit... sorry, Ode, but this is ridiculous. No one has the 'Right' 
to force someone to do something so ridiculous in order to keep a job. 
Vaccines are one of the big cons - right up there with the income tax
and drivers licenses.

> A vaccine costs everyone a lot less than a quarantine,

More bullshit. A vaccine won't prevent diddly.


--
The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com

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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Kurt Milkowski]

Believe that crap they will tell you more. Take a look,a good look at what 
vaccines are all about. Vaccines have never eliminated anything from anyone. 
Woder why the Amish have never ever had an autistic child? Because they don't 
vaccinate. Take a look at the gulf war vets. Gulf war syndrome, which is 
basically ALS or Lou gehrigs disease, didn't show up in a single french 
soldier. Why? because they weren't vaccinated!! By the way more soldiers have 
died as a result of the gulf war than died during Viet Nam. If you have been 
vaccinated you ARE carrying a disease, not the other way around.
   
  Kurt

Ode Coyote  wrote:
  Regardless of unproven "bullshit", Does any transport person have the 
right to be a disease carrier?

You are saying that the smallpox vaccine hasn't eliminated smallpox?
..That cowpox antibodies don't immunize from smallpox?

Which vaccines work and which don't and that some vaccines may be harmful 
to some people for different reasons, may be questionable, but the whole 
field of vaccination is pretty much an over all proven success with 
centuries of experience to back it up.

Smallpox inoculation was started 
in India or 
China before 200 
BC.[1] In 
1718, 
Lady Mary Wortley 
Montague reported that the Turks have 
a habit of deliberately inoculating themselves with fluid taken from mild 
cases of smallpox and she inoculated her own 
children.[2] 
In 1796 
Edward Jenner inoculated using 
cowpox (a mild relative of the deadly 
smallpox virus). Pasteur and others 
built on this

Ode

At 02:38 PM 10/11/2007 -0400, you wrote:

>>I don't think they can force you to take a vaccine, but they can 
>>constitutionally en force a quarantine.
>
>No, they can't - but they can UNconstitutinally enforce one.
>
>>If you aren't vaccinated, you disqualify yourself from being an enforcer 
>>or having any part in a transport operation, becoming a potential part of 
>>the problem vs part of any solution.
>
>? Vaccines simply DON'T WORK. It appears you have fallen for the FUD?
>
>>No job and rightly so, but not force, just choice. Work safe or stay at 
>>home.
>
>Bullshit... sorry, Ode, but this is ridiculous. No one has the 'Right' to 
>force someone to do something so ridiculous in order to keep a job. 
>Vaccines are one of the big cons - right up there with the income tax and 
>drivers licenses.
>
>>A vaccine costs everyone a lot less than a quarantine,
>
>More bullshit. A vaccine won't prevent diddly.
>
>
>--
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3:09 PM

Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Marshall Dudley]

Simon Jester wrote:
There aren't many vaccines I would take nowdays, but back in the day, 
I suppose smallpox and polio vaccines were useful.


No - pure propaganda/myth.


You don't see crippled people nowdays like there used to be from
polio.


The fact is, the incidence of polio was already on the downswing when 
the vaccine was introduced... see here:


http://www.vaclib.org/basic/polio.htm
That it is on the downswing is not surprising since it seems that polio 
was a contamination of the smallpox vaccination, and only became endemic 
after the smallpox vaccine was introduced.


Marshall



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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Ode Coyote]

  Regardless of unproven "bullshit", Does any transport person have the 
right to be a disease carrier?


You are saying that the smallpox vaccine hasn't eliminated smallpox?
..That cowpox antibodies don't immunize from smallpox?

 Which vaccines work and which don't and that some vaccines may be harmful 
to some people for different reasons, may be questionable,  but the whole 
field of vaccination is pretty much an over all proven success with 
centuries of experience to back it up.


Smallpox inoculation was started 
in India or 
China before 200 
BC.[1] In 
1718, 
Lady Mary Wortley 
Montague reported that the Turks have 
a habit of deliberately inoculating themselves with fluid taken from mild 
cases of smallpox and she inoculated her own 
children.[2] 
In 1796 
Edward Jenner inoculated using 
cowpox (a mild relative of the deadly 
smallpox virus). Pasteur and others 
built on this


Ode

At 02:38 PM 10/11/2007 -0400, you wrote:

I don't think they can force you to take a vaccine, but they can 
constitutionally en force a quarantine.


No, they can't - but they can UNconstitutinally enforce one.

If you aren't vaccinated, you disqualify yourself from being an enforcer 
or having any part in a transport operation, becoming a potential part of 
the problem vs part of any solution.


? Vaccines simply DON'T WORK. It appears you have fallen for the FUD?

No job and rightly so, but not force, just choice.  Work safe or stay at 
home.


Bullshit... sorry, Ode, but this is ridiculous. No one has the 'Right' to 
force someone to do something so ridiculous in order to keep a job. 
Vaccines are one of the big cons - right up there with the income tax and 
drivers licenses.



A vaccine costs everyone a lot less than a quarantine,


More bullshit. A vaccine won't prevent diddly.


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Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Paula Perry]

Dee, 
There are some vaccinations that used monkeys and cause retro-virus's that 
later turn into cancers,- one being Lymphoma. I know because my husband got it. 
He was in the Army for 22 years. Before they would deploy any where they would 
line the troops up and give them 10 or twelve shots at one time. Probably saves 
the government quite a bit on what they would have to pay out in retirements. 
Paula
  - Original Message - 
  From: Dee 
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 8:29 AM
  Subject: Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?


I seem to remember that it was another vaccine (for something I've 
forgotten) that caused the polio in the first place.  Rather like in animals, a 
vaccine given caused the parvo to jump species from cats to dogs.  Something to 
do with the cultures they were grown on. Brilliant!  Dee 

---Original Message---

From: Kurt Milkowski
Date: 10/12/07 12:48:12
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
    Subject: Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

Hey Pat,

Believe that lie and they'll tell you another one. Polio was on the 
decline before they started sticking people with the needles. Actually there 
was a spike in polio cases caused by the vaccines. That lie just paved the way 
for the kooks to get people to line up for shots. When you really investigate, 
the polio vaccine is the underlying cause of cancer! Unfortunately people are 
similar to mushrooms, keep us in the dark and feed us all kinds of bullshit and 
watch us grow.The only thing that can now or ever could cure you of a disease 
is your God given immune system. We have to stop believing the fairytales we 
have been told and do our best to wake the other mushrooms.

Kurt

   
  
   

Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Dee]

I had heard of someone who actually caught rabies from the vaccine though. 
Dee 
 
---Original Message---
 
From: Simon Jester
Date: 12/10/2007 12:52:10
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?
 
 
How would you or anyone know? How would you test it? I have no desire
to... besides, it is easily treated now, so no need for the *always*
questionable vaccine...
 
 
--

Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Dee]

I seem to remember that it was another vaccine (for something I've
forgotten) that caused the polio in the first place.  Rather like in animals
 a vaccine given caused the parvo to jump species from cats to dogs. 
Something to do with the cultures they were grown on. Brilliant!  Dee 
 
---Original Message---
 
From: Kurt Milkowski
Date: 10/12/07 12:48:12
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?
 
Hey Pat,
 
Believe that lie and they'll tell you another one. Polio was on the decline
before they started sticking people with the needles. Actually there was a
spike in polio cases caused by the vaccines. That lie just paved the way for
the kooks to get people to line up for shots. When you really investigate,
the polio vaccine is the underlying cause of cancer! Unfortunately people
are similar to mushrooms, keep us in the dark and feed us all kinds of
bullshit and watch us grow.The only thing that can now or ever could cure
you of a disease is your God given immune system. We have to stop believing
the fairytales we have been told and do our best to wake the other mushrooms

 
Kurt

Re: CS>Re: Forced flu vaccines?

[Hanneke]

Hi Pat,
In spite of what we are led to believe, polio vaccines are certainly not
without risks (if not even causing polio!).
Oct 5, 3:55 PM EDT 
Officials Say Drug Caused Nigeria Polio 
By MARIA CHENG 
AP Medical Writer

LONDON (AP) -- A polio outbreak in Nigeria was caused by the vaccine
designed to stop it, international health officials say, leaving at least
69 children paralyzed.
It is a frightening paradox in a part of the world that already distrusts
western vaccines, making it even tougher to stamp out age-old
diseases.
The outbreak was caused by the live polio virus that is used in vaccines
given orally - the preferred method in developing countries because it is
cheaper and doesn't require medical training to dispense.
(for whole article see link below)

http://tinyurl.com/ys3nm4 
At 09:40 AM 12/10/2007, you wrote:
There aren't many vaccines I
would take nowdays, but back in the day, I suppose smallpox and polio
vaccines were useful.  You don't see crippled people nowdays like
there used to be from polio.  The rabies vaccine is effective, isn't
it?  



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