Re: Keys Echoing Incorrectly

[David via Talk]

Sure sounds like you are having fun. Smiles. Reminds me of some 
party-game, kind of

     Gues What You Will Hear Next Keystroke...


Really not sure what to suggest, but have you tried to turn off all apps 
under Window-Eyes? I mean, just to start somewhere.


My first idea would be, that maybe you have switched language settings 
in Windows itself, thereby having a different keyboard activated. But 
even so, you should be consistent in what you would hear every time you 
hit one specific key. From what I get you, this is not the case.


So my next guess on a solution, would be for you to run whatever you can 
get hold of, when comes to well-reputed anti-ware. Things like anti-spy, 
anti-malware, and anti-virus. There might be a hostage of your computer, 
causing this. Let's hope not.


Third thing to consider, would be the risk that something is running in 
the background. Does anyone but you use the computer? if so, probably 
they have something installed, like a game or something, which might 
play jokes on you. Or, do you know of any software that recently was 
installed, and which you could try to turn down for a moment, to see if 
it all fixes the issue.


The next thing I have in mind, should have been the obvious thing. Yet, 
I for one, just overlooked that very soulution myself, just the other 
day. Have you tried restarting your computer? I mean, really restarting 
it. Turn it off, by letting it shut itself completely down, and then 
turning it back on from scratch. I stress this, since all I did was to 
put mine to sleep, or hibernating it; even restarting from the start 
menu, or what is named a warm-boot. It did not fix my issue,hence I 
ended up reporting something on the list that really was not a problem 
at the end of the day. Not until I gave the whole computer a real 
cold-boot, it would get fixed.


Since you are on Win10, I am not familiar with the exact approach for a 
completely cold-boot. But others might chime in here. And after all, you 
might already have attempted such, which would result in me being out of 
ideas what could possibly be going on.


Of course, a reset to a point a week or two ago, might bring your system 
into order. Use the Win10 equivalent of System Restore, and roll your 
system a few days back. But you might loose what you have been doing the 
last few days. And it will all depend on you remembering approximately 
when things started to misbehave.


It's all mere guessing. Hope you get it fixed. BTW, does it happen in 
all programs, or only in certain windows? And does it happen even with 
NVDA or Narrator?


On 5/3/2018 9:29 PM, Ayers, David (ITCS) via Talk wrote:
> All,
>
> I have a strange issue happening with key echo.  When I press a key, and it 
> doesn't matter what key, it echos a different letter or number.  For example, 
> if I am on the desktop and press 'I' for Internet Explorer, it will echo 
> maybe 9, then another press of 'I' may say S.  However, the cursor jumps to 
> the right desktop icon.  So when pressing 'I', it will say a different 
> letter/number, but will go to the first or next item starting with 'I'.  The 
> same is happening with any edit boxes or when I try to compose an email.  It 
> just doesn't echo the letter/number I am pressing.  This also messes with the 
> shortcut keys in IE.  Pressing 'V' for visited links, or 'H' for heading, or 
> 'E' for edit box doesn't go to the correct location.
>
> I have checked the keyboard layout and it was set to Zoom Text.  I changed it 
> to default, but it still echos the wrong key stroke.  I am using WE 9.5.4 and 
> Windows 10.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> David Ayers
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Firefox Update, as of May 2018

[David via Talk]

I was met by a message today, that there was a new update for my Firefox.


as you all will remember, last summer there was a good deal of chatting 
here on the list, since the normal (standard) version of Firefox was 
changed, and no longer useful for WE users.


The solution, that I along with many have been using, has been the ESR 
version of the browser. And, that is the version I was prompted to 
update today. I believe it stated to be version 52.7, or something like 
that.


I was, due to some other technical reason, running NVDA at the moment. 
As the ESR version traditionally has been reliable for screen readers, I 
did just accept the update, and anticipated going on with my browsing. 
NVDA had no problem in handling the newly updated browser.


Shortly, I closed NVDA, and started WinEeys, ready to go into normal 
activity. Great was my disappointment, when >I realized that the new 
version on my system, seemed to display the same useless behavior under 
WinEyes, as the standard version.


First thing you will notice, is that the screen reader no longer says:

     Program Main Window,

when launching the browser. You now will rather hear a message, 
containing the phrase:

     Document Window.

And Wineyes does not recognize this "document window" as a browser 
window, hence Browse Mode will not turn on. You will be able to tab 
through the controls, and can click on them by hitting Enter. But you 
will not be able to navigate anything outside the controls.


Since Firefox tends to update, even when you tell it not to, I am afraid 
this might indicate the end of WinEyes altogether working with a 
well-established favorite browser - among many a blind person.


My hope would be, that anyone could tell me that they have updated, and 
experienced no trouble. But that hope is pretty thin. You might be able 
to deny the update, for a few days or weeks, but sooner or later, you 
are going to experience the browser simply updating itself, without your 
contentment.


Sure, I have a backup of my browser folder, from a few weeks back, and 
might reinstall it. But what good would that do, since it all will be 
only temporarily, till it self-updates next time.


Too bad, they couldn't just leave at least one version of the browser 
alone, with the old access method. If for no longer, why not letting it 
alone, till they had solved the screen reader issue, that they have 
promised us ever since the main version went bad for screen readers.


Then again, both NVDA and Jaws, do work with the new version. I even 
checked the newly updated system here, with Jaws. It works, but only so 
much. Jaws gets into big trouble, and has been there for ever so long as 
I have had it, when the website is auto-updating. That means, things 
like EBay, under Firefox and with Jaws - well, you'd better just forget 
it. Jaws will continually jump back to the top of the page, just because 
some tiny detail updates on the web. Besides, working with the Browse 
Mode of Jaws, reminds me the old-style (close to a decade ago) features 
we had under WinEyes, version pre-7. Strange they never had the idea of 
updating their browser functionality. What is it really, that they 
include in all the updates we are faced with, ever so often, when 
running Jaws? No, I don't want to start a long discussion, just wondering.


Long message, will end here. Just wanted to let you all know my 
experience of today. Hopefully, you might be able to abstain from 
loosing your browser, for a few moments longer.


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Re: MICROSOFT WORD: HELP PERFORMING THREE TASKS

[David via Talk]

The WE App Central still is around. I just checked it out, and things 
seemed to work as ever. Only thing is that the developers will no longer 
be able to upload any further versions of their products. Meaning, you 
get what is there, and when it no longer works, you will have to contact 
the developer directly, and see if they happen to have a fix; or ask 
here on the list, hopig for someone to know the fix. :)


But the Record Macro, that I mentioned, was developed by GW. Hence, it 
will NOT receive any updates, anyway. Likely it won't need any either, 
since it only depends on ingernal routines in WE, for performing its 
activity. Sure, it can perform activities in all other software, but it 
does not interfere with any of the software's basics. So, my guess is, 
it will be useful still. And the latest update was uploaded just a year 
ago, very shortly before WE went off the scene.


Here is, for your convenience, the direct link for the app:

https://www.gwmicro.com/App_Central/Apps/App_Details/?scriptid=1074


On 4/17/2018 7:46 AM, Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. wrote:
> Hi David:
>
> Indeed, I did find some pointers online on how to create macros in Word.
> Sadly, there were MORE PICTORIAL representations which then made it hard for
> me to make sense of what I read.
>
> Isn't Window-Eyes Central app repository gone now?  I'd be willing to give
> the RECORD MACRO app a spin.
>
> Retrospectively it doesn't look too hard to do in Word; however, recording
> the macro is what seems to be throwing me off.  Since I'm an insomniac, I
> will tinker with it tonight and see how far along I'll get.  I'll document
> what I am doing, but won't publish it here unless it works satisfactorily.
>
> Sincerely,
> Olusegun
> Denver, Colorado
>
> .
>

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Re: MICROSOFT WORD: HELP PERFORMING THREE TASKS

[David via Talk]

As for the stuff about getting a standard address and such, on all 
documents, I too would be interested in any feedback from people who 
have dealt with that before.


Though, I do hold, what we here are looking for, would be

     How To Create A Template, and Later On Make Use Thereof?


Have not done anything much research on the matter, but probably a 
search term like:

     How to create a template in MSWord

followed by your version number, thrown into the search field of your 
favorite engine, might bring you a tiny step further. If you then found 
anything, feel free to share it with us all, and I guess the community 
can find a smooth way of working out the solution, by means of a screen 
reader.


Don't know if this really was of any help, but thought to at least bring 
it to your attention.


If you could find out the keystrokes, and you don't want to mess around 
with macros in Word - which I do have a feeling might be more or less 
accessible these days - you might want to give heed to an app, found at 
WE App Central. I think it's named something like

     Record Macro.

Only tried it very shortly, numerous years ago, so won't know if it is 
recommendable for the task of yours. But it might be worth to keep in 
your pocket. :)


On 4/16/2018 11:56 AM, Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk 
wrote:
> Hello in Window-Eyes Land:
>
> Ok, I am stumped and need some help.  I have three tasks that I am trying to
> accomplish:
>
> 1.  I need to create a Macro that can be invoked for purposes of printing
> company's address, phone number, E-mail address and such on paper so that I
> don't have to keep typing this repeatedly.  I want it centered.  What
> keystrokes or key sequences do I need to make this happen and how to save,
> well, forever?
> 2.  PAGE NUMBERING:  I have a need to set page numbers such that the
> numbering style will be something like Page 1 or 3 and so on.  How can I
> accomplish this task in Word?  Can I create a macro that can make this task
> more exciting as well?  If yes, how to record and save such a macro?
> 3.  CREATING AN OUTLINE:  Yes, good folks, how do I create an Outline?
>
> Sorry for a boatload of questions; but I'm looking forward to getting some
> help with my project.  Much thanks and all the best.
>
> Sincerely,
> Olusegun
> Denver, Colorado
>
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Re: screen reader compatibility

[David via Talk]

Interesting enough. Good thing some of us still are at Win7 or 8, and 
from what I can see, will not be affected by these changes.


Just keep in mind, dropping support does not necessarily mean stop 
working. It's been several years now, since GW dropped support for XP, 
but from what certain users tell, apparently WinEyes still runs well 
enough under that OS. In case the same would be the situation this time, 
you might still be able to run WinEyes under the updated Win10. You just 
won't be heard, should you report any trouble down the line. And if it 
works, why despair. That is why, I feel there was kind of a hole in the 
information. They simply just left WinEyes out of the whole story, with 
a quick note that it was no longer being manufactured; as if we did not 
know that already. (smiles). Would have been more helpful, and far less 
disturbing, had they told the reader to what extent they think WinEyes 
still might be working in the new environment.


Time will show, and if i got the message right, this will take place in 
less than two weeks time, so the wait should not be too long for anyone. 
Will be interesting to read user feedbacks, on how it all affects WinEyes.


On 3/29/2018 4:49 PM, brice Mijares via Talk wrote:
>
>  I copied this from another list.Hi everyone,
> Below is an update on screen reader compatibility notice and a 
> schedule of events regarding Version 1803:
> A few weeks ago I sent out a preliminary notice regarding compatible 
> screen readers with Windows 10 Version 1803. The below notice replaces 
> the preliminary one and should be considered official compatibility 
> notice from this forum cluster:
> Windows 10 Version 1803 compatible screen readers: any screen reader 
> supporting Version 1703 or later will work, although you may need to 
> install releases optimized for 1803. The following are known 
> compatible screen readers:
> • Narrator : yes.
> • NonVisual Desktop Access: 2018.1.1 or later.
> • JAWS for Windows: 18.0.4350 or later, 2018.1802.78 or later.
> • ZoomText: 11.5 or later.
> • Any screen reader declaring support for Version 1703 (Creators 
> Update) or later (except Window-Eyes).
> Note: Window-Eyes is no longer supported as a compatible screen reader 
> from this forum cluster as the product was discontinued.
> Also, based on latest information available, the tentative schedule of 
> events regarding Version 1803 (on this forum cluster) is as follows:
> • Around April 3, 2018 or whenever it happens: Version 1803 build will 
> be sent to release preview Insiders. From that day on, the entire 
> forum cluster will enter Version 1803 era.
> • Around April 10, 2018: Version 1803 makes public debut.
> • April 11, 2018 or at most 24 hours after public release: critical 
> standby begins. This is a 72-hour period where all activity on the 
> Win10 forum will be suspended except for Version 1803 upgrade reports 
> and impressions. This is also the period when Microsoft staff and 
> screen reader vendor reps will get temporary moderator privileges so 
> they can pass on critical information for screen reader users (please 
> show them respect during that time).
> • Between 1803 release date and 60 days after: countdown for Version 
> 1709 is in effect. During this time cumulative update notices for both 
> 1709 and 1803 will be sent to the forum cluster.
> • June 30, 2018 or end of 60 day countdown, whichever happens earlier: 
> cumulative update announcements for 1709 will cease. The next KB alert 
> for 1709 will be on April 2019 once it exits consumer support.
> • December 2018: cumulative update for 1803 will cease.
> • October 2019: last KB alert for 1803 as it exits consumer support.
> The above schedule is subject to change – depends on when Version 1803 
> will hit the air.
> Cheers,
> Joseph
> _._,_._,_
>
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Re: top bottom index

[David via Talk]

 From the messagese, earlier on this list, and the tiny bit I have 
fooled with Jaws, I am afraid I have to bear you bad news. NVDA does 
support top and bottom indexing, but far as I am informed, Jaws does not.


What else does Jaws not support? smiles. Sure, it is a great miss not to 
know the indexes. So should it happen that anyone has a workaround for 
Jaws - maybe a script - please might they chime in.


On 3/23/2018 12:11 AM, Tom Kingston via Talk wrote:
> Sorry, butch. I've barely skimmed the surface of JAWS.
> Good luck,
> Tom
>
>
> On 3/22/2018 12:57 PM, BK via Talk wrote:
>> Found it, thank you Tom. Now, do you or anyone on the list know if Jaws
>> has an equivalent, speak top bottom, setting?
>>
>> Butch
>>
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Did You Accidentially Delete A Message? {Was} NVDA mailing list

[David via Talk]

For all members of the list,

As a friendly reminder:


We all eventually touch that Delete-key, when it was inconvenient. That 
important message should not have been deleted; and what do you do now?


First of all, all the mail clients I have been in touch with, do have a 
Trash folder. Whenever you hit the Delete-key, messages typically are 
moved there. They are not altered, or modified in any way. As a matter 
of fact, do you go to the trash folder of your mail program, you can 
quickly "re-insert" the message, back inot the folder it originally 
belonged to. So, before asking the group members to send out yet another 
message, generating extra clutter on the list, and taking up time from 
others, may you please check your trash folder first.


One thing is, when you have deleted a message that is several days, 
weeks or even months old. It then could be a mess to try refinding it in 
the trash folder. But if you know it is only a few days ago the original 
message was received, it should be not too hard to bring it back on-stage.


Oh for sure, there is a way to permanently delete a message. It might 
often be a combo with the delete-key, like Shift-Del, or Ctrl-Del - 
depending on your mail client. Did you happen to use that combo when 
deleting the message? Please, don't despair all yet. At the bottom of 
any message from the list, there is a short note that reads:


List archives can be found at 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com

How about that? Smiles.

And then, what if you are using a web-based mail service? I was under 
the impression that even those services do offer the Trash feature, 
although they might name it indifferently.

OK, was it only a short note you are looking for, like a mail address or 
some subscription information, it might not be too hard for others to 
retype and resend the info. But what about when you ask for a 
wtep-through guide of some sort? Besides, even refinding subscription 
info or the like, might take a bit of time from others, in their sincere 
wish to help you out.

Again, I did not mean to discourage anyone from asking questions on the 
list. I just wanted to remind all, that sometimes our mistakes do call 
for a tiny bit of fooling around, on our own computer. Smiles. Let's ask 
the list, when we do not have a chance of getting to the info ourselves, 
or when we know someone might have an answer that works the best.

this list is not the worst, believe me. I have seen lists where people 
tend to ask the same old questions over and over again, or spread the 
same old story or other information. It seems no trouble, it is only a 
line or two. But did you all know, an electronic mail holds numerous 
lines. It has a load of technical information enclosed, to let the 
servers between you and the recipient know how to handle the message. If 
the mail is written in HTML, it will hold loads and hives of coding. 
All-in-all, even if you only typed in 23 characters, your actual load on 
the net servers might be more like 1000. In today's world, 1000 
characters, or approx one Kilobyte, might seem harmless. But what do you 
think, if one thousand users do the same? Or even, remember when you ask 
a question, someone has to reply, and their reply might hold even a copy 
of your message, raising the total load into the multiples. As a matter 
of fact, even small clutter on every list, might bgenerate tons of 
unnecessary net resources. And net resources are not out of the blue. 
They do take servers to spin, fans to cool, and distribution centrals 
for the cabling to operate. All of this takes electricity. Well, not 
much to bother, but still might be worth to remind us all sometimes.

BTW, it was told on the radio the other day, that when you have a video 
conference with your friend - say over services like Skype, the two of 
you are actually generating loads of net resource consumption.
"Ah," you might think, "Can't really amount into anything much. After 
all, it is all electronics!"
Surprise! At least I got quite astonished, when learning that such a 
simple video conference, actually consumes electrical power, equal to 
that of having TWO refridgerators running simultaneously and continiously.

Anyone wondered why we pay for our internet subscription? Smiles.


On 3/1/2018 4:31 PM, BK via Talk wrote:
> Hello, the other day someone posted the address to join the NVDA email
> list. I accidently deleted it. Will you please resend the info to join
> that list? Sorry for the inconvenience. Thanks.
>
> Butch
>
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Re: here is address for NVDA group

[David via Talk]

Be prepared. Traffic is quite extensive. Sometimes a few hundred 
messages in a week. Friendly list, but unfortunately too much chatter. 
Long as you can live with this, it's a nice place to ask your NVDA 
questions, or simply follow other people's discussions, and learn from that.


David

On 2/28/2018 4:32 AM, mcleod stinnett via Talk wrote:
>   Group Email Addresses
> Post: n...@nvda.groups.io
> Subscribe: nvda+subscr...@nvda.groups.io
> Unsubscribe: nvda+unsubscr...@nvda.groups.io
> Group Owner: nvda+ow...@nvda.groups.io
> Help: nvda+h...@nvda.groups.io
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Re: Firefox 58.0 release overview

[David via Talk]

Thanks for the link.


Yes, they sure are aware of the screen reader issues - and have been so 
ever since they started the whole 57+ cycle. What they don't tell in the 
article you linked, is why they did not just fix it right away, when 
they were to introduce version 58. Sounds somehow like the Microsoft 
thing, where they took a pretty long time to have anything for a fix, in 
the Edge browser issue. Being aware of a thing, does not automate you 
will ever have a fix of it.


Well, let us keep positive. They are aware of the issues, and hope to 
fix them. Now, what kind of issues is it they will fix? NVDA, and I 
don't know Jaws, have had certain issues with modern versions of 
Firefox. But they have still been able to read

SOMETHING

off the screen. WinEyes users, on the other hand, have been able to read 
absolutely

     nothing

from the screen produced by version 57+. Even when we seemed to have 
found a workaround, it took them less than a week to break even that 
one, with a new "update". So when comes to them fixing things in a way 
that WinEyes users again can go back to the latest ordinary version of 
Firefox, I would not keep my breath - really. Chances are high, the 
issues they are going to fix, will be the ones experienced by NVDA and Jaws.


For WinEyes users, currently you have to use the ESR version of the 
Firefox - which most currently is at version 52.6. It updated here 
yesterday, and still runs nicely with the screen reader. Let's just 
hope, they don't break anything there, before they have fixed everything 
in the main version.


Again, I do intend no negativity here, but wanted to keep things in 
perspective.


On 1/25/2018 4:23 AM, Debby Franson via Talk wrote:
> Hi Everyone!
>
> My husband sent me this link. I know we have all had trouble with 
> Firefox since their major change, and I remember someone feeling 
> forgotten about by Mozilla due to being a screen reader user. Mozilla 
> hasn't forgotten about us. They are aware of the problems screen 
> reader users have. Here is the link.
>
> https://www.ghacks.net/2018/01/22/firefox-58-0/
>
> Debby
>
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Re: Thunderbird

[David via Talk]

probably I have lost something here. But please, what is your issue? You 
have got trouble with newest Thunderbird? OK, but could you tell us what 
exactly you are experiencing, it might be possible for us to advice 
where the trouble nests.


Currently running Thunderbird here, updated just about a week ago, and 
have seen no extra issues. So likely something has got messed up in your 
installation, but without knowing exactly what the issue is, it will be 
a guesswork to trace the trouble.


On 1/20/2018 2:02 AM, Robert Martin via Talk wrote:
> Thanks!
> It must be something in my room configuration. Thanks again
> Bob
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jan 19, 2018, at 6:12 PM, Michael Fridey via Talk 
>>  wrote:
>>
>> Yes i am running the latest bird on 2 laptops.
>> Cheers Michael.
>>
>>> On 20 Jan 2018, at 12:24 am, Robert Martin via Talk 
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks!!
>>> Are you using the most recent version of Thunderbird?
>>> Bob
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
 On Jan 18, 2018, at 10:54 PM, Michael Fridey via Talk 
  wrote:

 I find thunder bird works fine hear.

 cheers Michael.


> On 19/01/18 2:06 PM, Robert via Talk wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm wondering if some kind of changes have occurred in Thunderbird.  I 
> have
> used it for some time to download Gmail and it worked adequately.   At 
> home
> I've switched to Outlook which works quite well but at work I have
> Thudnerbird on my machine and it will take a while to get our university
> tech folks to address my issues.   Does  have any idea what the problems
> with thunderbird might be.  It just doesn't work at all as it previously.
> Actually I also use JAWS and have basically the same problems.  Any ideas?
> Suggestions will be helpful.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
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 -- 
 sent from mizilla thunderbird

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Re: Windows-10 Upgrade Question

[David via Talk]

Bryan Smart's Talking Windows pre-installation disk ?


Never heard of that one. Where would you get such a thing, please?


By the way, how would I get the Microsoft Media Creator, for burning a 
Win10 installation DVD, if anyone knows.


thanks,


On 1/12/2018 4:34 AM, Rod Hutton via Talk wrote:
> Hi Butch,
>
> Sorry you had to go through all that crap.
> Same thing happened to me the other day trying to upgrade a machine.
> Now I'm stuck waiting for a gadget needed to connect a burner to my other 
> machine since the only burner I had was the one on the machine I tried to 
> upgrade.
> Oops!
> Therefore, I have no way to burn the Windows 10 media to a disk before the 
> 16th.
> Looks like that machine will have to remain at Windows 7 once I get my part 
> and I can burn Bryan Smart's Talking Windows pre-installation disk which 
> allows the installation of Windows 7.
> I ain't gonna cry over this. (smile)
> Of course, there is the possibility that Microsoft might offer another 
> extension of the free upgrade.
>
> Best,
>
> Rod
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
> On Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk
> Sent: January 11, 2018 7:54 PM
> To: Nick Sarames via Talk 
> Cc: Butch Bussen 
> Subject: Re: Windows-10 Upgrade Question
>
> Yep, Rod is right.  pro is $200 after the cut off date.  I upgraded a couple 
> of my machines just because.  Not my main ones yet.  Had lots of problems, 
> long long story.  In neither case would the upgrade program work.  had to use 
> their media creater and get full version and then did upgrade from that.  
> Also, in both cases, window-eyes seemed to have a conflict leaving it.  Had 
> to do a uninstall and reinstall.  First machine I had we set to run at 
> startup and it just put the machine in a loop rebooting, so had to blow that 
> completely away, so no way to go back to seven on that one.  On the second 
> machine, I set it not to run.
> When I tried, locked up the machine, so I just rebooted.  Are we having fun 
> yet?
> 73
> Butch
> WA0VJR
> Node 3148
> Wallace, ks.
>
>
> rOn Thu, 11 Jan 2018, Nick Sarames via Talk wrote:
>
>> Thanks Rod, I realize there are issues with WE & 10, but as far as you
>> know, can WE handle the basics?  My hope was to be able to get
>> comfortable (somewhat) with 10 before tackling Jaws.
>>
>> On 1/11/2018 7:12 AM, Rod Hutton via Talk wrote:
>>> Hi Nick,
>>>
>>> Well, all I can do is recommend that you read the following page carefully 
>>> and I believe you will conclude that the upgrade is free until Jan. 16, 
>>> and, after then, you'll be paying the usual cost of the version of Windows 
>>> 10 you require:
>>>
>>> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/accessibility/windows10upgrade
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Rod
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Talk
>>> [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On
>>> Behalf Of Nick Sarames via Talk
>>> Sent: January 11, 2018 3:23 AM
>>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
>>> Cc: Nick Sarames 
>>> Subject: Windows-10 Upgrade Question
>>>
>>> This is sort of one of those questions where, Mommy says no,  but I'm
>>> hoping Daddy will say yes.  I clicked on the Windows-10 upgrade, and
>>> I'm given the choice to run or save.  I'd like to be able to save the
>>> file until after the free upgrade has passed (when a 3rd party (my
>>> sighted
>>> friend) can assist me.  A rep from Microsoft disability says my
>>> request cannot be accomplished.  Is this true?  Is there any other
>>> way around it?  And while I'm at it, how much will this upgrade cost
>>> after the deadline?  Please Daddy?  Thanks in advance.
>>>
>>> Nick
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>> and do not 

Re: Version Question

[David via Talk]

Poof, great. Then I was not the only one to get that DLL missing 
message. I even searched the net, and only could find some outsider 
answers to how to remedy. Even more strange, when they told where the 
DLL should be located, I did check and it sure was on my computer. So 
why the Win10 upgrader did not see it, or if it had swallowed too much 
hot chocolate, got a n aching toe, or been arguing with Win7 earlier and 
simply had enough - well who knows. :) I ended up like you, simply just 
giving up on the whole thing. Is this all Win10 can accomplish, then I 
am ready to say I saved myself a ton of future frustrations, and will 
camp with Win7 till the day it is gone. By that time, probably my Dell 
from 2012 finally will have decided it is time to retire, and I guess my 
next computer will have Win10 on it, even if I cry, scream and shout. 
Smiles.

Only thing that crossed my mind, is this. If the upgrader so dearly 
depends on that silly DLL, why did Microsoft not simply include it in 
the downloaded material? They downloaded some 3GB of data to fill up my 
hard drive, so the silly tiny DLL could have meant no trouble to 
include. And, they don't seem to offer a download of it from their 
website either, unless I have overlooked something.

Well, don't be fooled. Your next car will be delivered all brand new. 
Once you have seated yourself inside, and turn the key, a message is 
popping up on the dashboard, saying that it did not find itself to wear 
any tires. You call on the store-keeper, and you will be told the tires 
are located in the trunk. Only thing is, you find no tires in the trunk, 
and however much you check, it seems the tires are already on the 
wheels. but get that silly new car started?!!! Oh, no Sir; We are just 
delivering the Microsoft car for you. Hahaha, and funny smiles.

I am not in the US, and don't know if Microsoft Accessibility Desk will 
be available for abroad customers. So if anyone had the urge to call 
them, and could give some clue, fine enough and greatly appreciated. 
Otherwise, I am just going to continue like in the "old Days".


On 1/3/2018 11:06 PM, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote:> Mine didn't work 
either.  I kept getting some error such and such
 > library not found.  I finally just gave up. 73 Butch WA0VJR Node
 > 3148 Wallace, ks.
 >
 >
 > On Wed, 3 Jan 2018, Patricia Krinke via Talk wrote:
 >
 >> Thank you, Rod.
 >>
 >> Apparently, getting the free copy of Windows 10 didn't work ...
 >> sometime in the future maybe I will get Windows 10.
 >>
 >>
 >> Patricia -Original Message- From: Rod Hutton via Talk Sent:
 >> Wednesday, January 03, 2018 1:48 PM To: Window-Eyes Discussion
 >> List Cc: Rod Hutton Subject: RE: Version Question
 >>
 >> Hi Patricia,
 >>
 >> Here's a line of text which is a command. Winver | more If you
 >> select the whole line of text, copy it to the clipboard, you can
 >> paste it into the Run dialog box. You open the Run dialog box by
 >> holding down the Windows key and pressing the letter R. Once you
 >> paste the command into the Run dialog box, you would press Enter
 >> to execute the command. Then, you would read the whole Window using
 >> Ctrl-Shift-W. Once you have heard the version information, press
 >> Enter to activate the Ok button to close the dialog.
 >>
 >> Best,
 >>
 >> Rod
 >>
 >> -Original Message- From: Talk
 >> [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
 >> On Behalf Of Patricia Krinke via Talk Sent: January 3, 2018 2:30
 >> PM To: Window-Eyes Discussion List  Cc:
 >> Patricia Krinke  Subject: Version Question
 >>
 >> Good afternoon,
 >>
 >> How can I tell which version of Windows I have?
 >>
 >> I did have Windows 7 but did try to install Windows 10. However,
 >> nothing seems to have changed and I didn’t notice anything when I
 >> tried to install Windows 10.
 >>
 >> Thank you,
 >>
 >>
 >> Trish ___ Any views or
 >> opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and
 >> do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
 >>
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 >> 
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 >>

Upgrading to win10

[David via Talk]

OK, I know, this should be the last day for the job. But far as I 
remember, the free offer for upgrading to Win10 should last even for today.


Thing is, I thought I had saved the link for the upgrade. Unfortunately, 
it must have been saved really deep in the storage here. Anyone please 
could leave me the link for the screen reader offer of free upgrading to 
Win10?


Thanks listers,

-- 
David

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Re: USB headphones with microphone

[David via Talk]

Carol, and the rest.
Perhaps you already will know this, but still, might I be allowed to 
clarify one point. Keyboard and mouse, might either be ordinary 
wireless, or they might be Bluetooth. Headsets could be strict wireless, 
but the ones with microphone will (to all my knowledge) always be 
Bluetooth. All of this of course, unless your equipment is all wired.

So what is the difference between pure wireless, and the stuff we name 
Bluetooth? I mean, and you understand, that they all do send signals 
through the room wirelessly; that is, without the need of a cable for 
the signals to be transfered.

The strict, or pure, wireless technology - is the oldest method known on 
modern computer devices. It sends its signals by means of Infrared 
light; and often is being refered to as IR devices. This means it 
completely depends on free and open access for the signals to fly from 
your wireless unit - like your keyboard, and to the wireless receiver, 
plugged into your computer. Often these receivers would be placed 
somehow high in the room, to ensure the free flow of the light signals. 
On laptops, you might have a tiny "window" on one side, and to have a 
good transmission, you would need your wireless unit to sit on that side 
of the laptop. Wireless, infrared signals, typically have a covered 
distance of something like 8-10 feet, or between 2.5 and 3 meters. That 
is to say, long as the complete distance is close to freed from any 
clutter. Place a book, a coffee cup, or even your hand in between the 
keyboard and the receiver, and the whole transmission gets blocked.

I have seen keyboard, mouse and some older cellphones - with the 
infrared wireless transferring capability.

Wireless products need no pairing, as they simply are working like a 
sender and a receiver; taking and giving whatever comes within their 
frequency. Due to its many limitations, it is not very much used now 
aday, though you might have no trouble in using a wireless keyboard on 
modern computers. And wireless mouse and keyboards are still frequently 
sold.

What then about Bluetooth? What is it, and in what ways does it differ 
from the infrared wireless equipment?

First of all, why it has got its name, I have no clue. So simply just 
accept the fact that they decided to name it Bluetooth, in some cases 
abbreviated BT.

Bluetooth, in reality, is a low-range, short-reaching radio. You have a 
sender, usually sitting in your headset, keyboard or whatever is 
considered the Signal Giver. And you have a receiver, typically sitting 
inside your cellphone, your computer or in a USB dongle much like a tiny 
USB Pen Drive. This Sender/Receiver combo, together forms a closed radio 
circle. Signals can flow between them, both forward and backward. Since 
the signals are all radio waves, you are no longer restricted to having 
open and freed space between the units. Your bluetooth headset might 
even work in the next room, with the doors closed. You could sit in any 
angle from your computer, and still experience your Bluetooth equipment 
communicating perfectly with the PC. And best of all, it has a trippled 
distance range, of upto 30 feet, or 10 meters. Some do advertise their 
Bluetooth equipment with even higher range, but I would be careful in 
relying too much over this limit. Bluetooth signals even can pass 
between floors, so easily can be used between up- and downstairs in your 
house. In reality, if you have a headset with bluetooth capabilities, 
and you want to dictate something while you are doing your laundry 
downstairs, you can do so just fine. That is, you of course have to get 
your computer turned on and all that stuff. Smiles.

Bluetooth needs a one-to-one pairing. That means, you have to make the 
computer and headset know of each other, and tell them to only connect 
to that one unit. In reality, most Bluetooth communication hence only 
will work between your computer, and one external equipment. Modern 
Bluetooth connections are sometimes capable of running more than one 
paired communication, meaning you could use both your Bluetooth 
Keyboard, and Bluetooth headset at the same time - a combination that 
often might prove helpful on modern mobile devices.

Due to the pairing requirement of the technology, noone outside your 
closed communication circle will basically be able to "see" the signals. 
That means, once you have paired your computer and the headset, all 
communication will take place between those two units, no matter if your 
spouse is using a Bluetooth headset paired with his cellphone. Each 
pairing is strictly between the paired units, and nothing else.

Bluetooth communication, is the all-over standard for wirelessly 
transmitting signals now aday. Much dictated by the introduction on the 
mobile market, it has become the industry standard for computers as 
well. People want to be able to use the same keyboard, the same headset 
or speaker, and the same whatever else - on their cellphone as 

Re: USB headphones with microphone

[David via Talk]

If we want to take you even one step further into the modern age, have 
you considered using a Bluetooth headset?


You can get a bluetooth receiver, which you plug into your computer's 
USB port, and which only sticks out about half an inch from the 
computer, It can even be plugged into one of the ports on the backside 
of your unit, though not necessarily recommended. You then could get a 
Bluetooth headset, the kind they use for cellphones and mobile devices 
now aday. Some of these models are quite nice sounding, they are very 
light-weighted, and they would give you the flexibility of going all 
wireless. You then would have no cables running cross your desk, and you 
could even sit in your couch while dictating.


Bluetooth receivers for the USB, could be picked up for less than 10 
dollars, and a good Bluetooth headset, might be had from 15-20 dollars 
and up.


The battery on the Bluetooth models might of course be an issue, as they 
tend to last anything from 2 to 5 hours of speech. But they are not all 
that expensive, so if you find one you like, you might consider picking 
up two, having one in use, the other on charge. Even some of the models, 
can be used while charging, though you then would have a USB cable for 
the charging. All depends on how long sessions you do your dictation, 
and other listening.


Also, just for your reminder. If you decide to go for seperate units 
altogether, like one mic, and one headset - there are to be had very 
cheap, extremely sensitive microphones. I picked up a handful a while 
back, costing me 99 cents a piece. They were that sensitive, they picked 
up even activity in the room next to where I was sitting, though the 
door was all closed. May not be what you are looking for, but just 
wanted to point out that on computers you can get a good amount of nice 
microphones, for quite cheap money. It could be a cheaper way to get a 
complete solution, than to find a headset with both good sound, and a 
good microphone.


Lastly, I do know that not all mics for the computer are anything good. 
Have heard some of the Librivox recordings, done by people around the 
globe. Some have never learned to use a microphone, others are not 
natively speaking English. It might be a challenge in itself, though 
they definitely should be thanked for their hard work and good 
intentions. Yet, long as they are on a microphone that simply is not 
capable of picking up a human voice in its full, the audiobook might 
sometimes loose listeners, due to way too bad sound quality.


On 12/29/2017 6:44 PM, Carol and Roger via Talk wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am looking for a headset that works nicely with Windows 10 that can 
> be used with screen readers and has a good microphone for dictation.  
> I would like one that fits over the head, but I do not like ones that 
> have the large cups that cover the entire ear.  It would be nice if it 
> had a control on it so I could mute it when not in use.  I want 
> something that is durable.  I absolutely can not tolerate those that 
> fit behind the head.  Thank you for any suggestions.
>
> Carol
>
>
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Re: USB headphones with microphone

[David via Talk]

Don't know if this is of any help to you. Asking - or rather answering - 
questions about speakers, headphones or microphones, often tend to be 
like asking people which topping is best on your sandwich. Ask ten 
people, and you will be lucky if you only get 15 opinions. Smiles. 
Likely, they are going to load you down with numerous advices; so why 
don't I just join the choir? Big smiles.

First thing you would have to determine, is of course what you are going 
to listen to. Is it mainly music, or is it audiobooks and spoken 
recordings. Even, is your main listening strictly the speech synth of 
your computer. Why I am bringing this out, is that one headset might 
perform the very clearest and nice sounding music, but is a mere thunder 
when you listen to an audiobook narrated by a male. Or, do like I 
unfortunately ended up with recently. They had a headset on special in 
one netshop. I did my research, and found the specs to fit my needs 
quite well. I am using the headset right now, and promise you:
     They are close to horrible, when comes to the Eloquence voice. Reed 
sounds like he has been stuffed inside an empty food can, and the whole 
container has been closed up with your bed-quilt.
When comes to music, the very same headset is within all we would name 
OK sounding.

Again, who is your prefered synth and voice for the screen reader? I 
have tried headsets and speakers that perform one voice just fine, but 
the next one sounds like a scramble.

When comes to the microphone, I have not done too much testing. Yet on 
the products I have been in touch with, the mic is usually quite clear. 
Have tried a few of the models with noise reduction, a technology that 
apparently will only let your voice come through, but will eliminate all 
other noises in the room. Oh well; did they only do what they claim! If 
you ever have tried to listen to your friend on one of those modern 
cellphones, and you think he sounds like he is still in bed, speaking 
underneath his comforter - well that is likely due to the noise reducing 
technology on most cell-mics now aday. My advice? Stay clear of all 
products that has such reduction.

Be forewarned, the microphone could be located different places on the 
product. First of all, some modern models have what is refered to as
     On-Cable Microphone.
This means, the microphone is loacated a few inches down the cable, from 
the ear-cup. Often in the same unit as the volume controll. To be all 
honest, stay far as you can away from these models. The control unit 
always turns around, leaving your microphone pointing toward your chest, 
and all you can hear from the recording, is scratching noises from the 
microphone sliding up and down your shirt. Even if they come with a 
clip, it will be little nice in the long run.

Next, you have the sweevel-boom microphones. They are mounted on a 
flexible, bendable boom, which can be flipped up on top of your head, 
whenever they are not in use. For some reason, most such boom mics, are 
mounted on the outside of the left ear-cup. Some models, you can swing 
the mic down the same amount of degrees, both forward and backward - 
leaving you the choice if you want the headphone sitting with the mic on 
the left side of your head, or if you prefer to flip it over and have it 
on the right-hand side. Other models, you can only flip down the mic in 
the forward position, meaning the headset always will have to be worn 
one particular direction. Not sure I am able to convey fully the 
difference, but wanted to point it out anyway.

Thirdly, some headsets come with a retractable mic, which of course will 
be out of your way altogether, when not in use. You kind of push it 
back, and it retracts inside the ear-cup. Not sure if you can get this 
feature on anything but full-sized, all ear-covering models. Got one of 
them here, and found the mic cannot be pulled out far enough to reach up 
front of my mouth. Have not tested the recording, so not sure if it is 
of any importance.

You tell you want a headphone with small cups? Well they are available 
sure enough. You could go for either pure small ones, slightly bigger 
than an inch in diameter. Or, you could go for mid-sized ones - approx 
one and a half inch. These mid-sized ones, will still not cover your ear 
completely, but might fit a bit better than the smaller ones, who often 
tend to slight half way off your ear. It all depends on your preference, 
and somehow the physics of your ear.

Mind you, in all sizes, you can have cups with foam cushion. Or, you can 
get them with leather-like cushions. Some will have thick and 
comfortable cushions, which might be the thing if you are planning for a 
prolonged time in front of your computer. Or, you can get more 
simplistic headsets with thinner cushions, which often tend to be more 
flimpsy make. Foam cushions might be possible to replace, but they tend 
to wear out, get filled with hair over time, and even crumbling away 
after a 

Re: Looks to be fixed: was New frustrations with TB, please help

[David via Talk]

Whatever was the case, I am glad you got it all fixed.


For a later time, you might want to keep in mind the suggested approach, 
that someone else gave you. The Filter-stuff, is normally turned on with 
Ctrl-K. To get it turned off, you go to the View-menu of Thunderbird, by 
hitting Alt-V. In here, go to Toolbars, hit Right-Arrow, and arrow your 
way down to the Filter setting. It likely will be Checked, causing the 
filter screen to come up. Never understood what filtering it would do, 
or why it by default is turned on when you install Thunderbird. But all 
you have to do, once focused on the setting in the Toolbar-menu, is to 
press Enter. The menu will close, the Filtering will be turned off, and 
you will be acting as normal.


Furthermore, when in a screen of Thunderbird, and you want to get out of 
it, it might be worth trying either the Ctrl-W, or even the F6. First 
one will attempt to close your current tab, the latter will attempt 
jumping between different screen sections of the program. All quite 
standard keystrokes, that you will know from other software.


As for your tiredness and feeling overrun by medication, I am afraid 
there is little Thunderbird can do about that, other than causing you 
further issues. Smiles. Glad you got the TB issue fixed, and let's hope 
it will stay there for the near future. I have the latest version here, 
and seem to have no other than the normal operation with the program.


Hope you get well soon.


On 12/17/2017 3:35 PM, Larry Higgins via Talk wrote:
> Hey Tom and all who have tried to help.
>
>
> It looks like I may have fixed this problem in a rather unexpected way.
>
>
> When I would try to close any of the windows representing a session of 
> TB, I was getting the impression that these windows weren't actually 
> shutting, because when returning to the desktop, and pressing alt-tab, 
> I would see other windows that were actually opened at the same time, 
> all     of them TBe session windows.
>
>
> You will recall that I took to going to task manager to shut down TB 
> when it appeared that these windows weren't shutting on their own. But 
> again, it turns out that for some reason that other sessions 
> previously loaded hadn't shut. I don't know how many days this went 
> on, but after going to the task viewer and closing them individually 
> from there, all of my issues seemed to have disappeared, or lets hope 
> so anyway.
>
>
> This one just seemed to be to weird for words, but it now seems to be 
> resolved.
>
>
> Again, thanks for all of your
>
>  suggestions. They definitely seemed logical enough, but apparently 
> logic just didn't apply here .
>
> All of you have a great day, and thanks again,
>
> Larry
> On 12/17/2017 7:19 AM, Tom Kingston via Talk wrote:
>> I have no idea why the message filter dialog would pop up every time 
>> you open TB. But have you tried closing that window with Control-W? 
>> Just a guess.
>> Regards,
>> Tom
>>
>>
>> On 12/17/2017 6:26 AM, Larry Higgins via Talk wrote:
>>> Yes Nick, and that is just what I have been forced to do. However, I 
>>> still have this issue where TB refuses to close on its own, making 
>>> it necessary to go to the task manager.
>>>
>>>
>>> I guess the only reason I really find this filter thing so annoying 
>>> is that nothing I do seems to satisfy. I cannot use the keyboard 
>>> option to accept the invitation to let it do its thing, whatever 
>>> that is. I don't see any messages that it apparently needs to filter 
>>> either, and I don't think I've been missing anything. This is just 
>>> very unusual behavior. It even takes longer for TB to load since 
>>> I've returned home.
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't remember what my previous version number was, so don't think 
>>> I can determine if I have been updated or what. I'm just hoping that 
>>> if I haven't, that a later update wont reveal new accessibility 
>>> issues, like unto Firefox, but so far, none of those that I can 
>>> presently see.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks Nick for at least helping me think this thing through. But 
>>> who knows, maybe this little issue will just suddenly disappear. And 
>>> it may be  something I do, but I wont even be able to guess what it 
>>> was .
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/17/2017 3:39 AM, Nick Sarames via Talk wrote:
 I probably don't do as much with TBird as you do, but if you can 
 get to
 your inbox (for example), can't you ignore the filters option?

 On 12/17/2017 4:35 AM, Larry Higgins via Talk wrote:
> Well Nick, no problem finding my inbox, but the filter thing, as 
> well as
> this annoyance of not being able to close TD just will not go 
> away. At
> least there is that usual faithful remedy of the task manager. It 
> seems
> to work every time. Only wish I had a shortcut directly to the TB 
> option
> without having to wait for the manager to open .
>
>
> The only other problem approaching this one was when I was being told
> that 

Re: Now for a new challenge?

[David via Talk]

Might be a hit-and-miss this one. But what happens if you try the 
App-key, or Shift-F10? Someone told me, that once in a while even 
Shift-App-key will provide extended menus. I am not under Win10, so 
cannot really help, just thought to throw the idea on the table.


On 12/13/2017 6:51 PM, Carol and Roger via Talk wrote:
> Well, at this point, I don't know if there is one installed.  I did 
> not take the option from macafey.  I plan to use Defender once I can 
> move around a little in Win10.  It did show me the files on the drive, 
> though.  Maybe I can play around a bit more this evening.
>
> Carol
>
>
> On 12/13/2017 12:44 PM, Rod Hutton via Talk wrote:
>> Hi Carol,
>>
>> I'm wondering if your antivirus software has blocked the external drive.
>> I've never used anything except Windows built-in antivirus software, 
>> Windows Defender, and so have not had any trouble with external drives.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Rod
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Talk 
>> [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
>> Behalf Of Carol and Roger via Talk
>> Sent: December 13, 2017 12:22 PM
>> To: steve.jacob...@visi.com; Window-Eyes Discussion List 
>> 
>> Cc: Carol and Roger 
>> Subject: Re: Now for a new challenge?
>>
>> Thanks.  I will give that a try the next time I have the PC turned on.
>> Right now, I am sharing monitor cable and power cord. Since I need this
>> one more, I can only do a little at a time with the other one. Small
>> steps --little time, grin.
>>
>> Carol
>>
>>
>> On 12/13/2017 11:10 AM, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:
>>> Carol,
>>>
>>> If you arrowed to the file, it may already have been selected.  I 
>>> wonder if
>>> Narrator may be incorrectly reporting the selection.  What happens 
>>> if you
>>> arrow to the file you want, do not press PSACE, do the CONTROL-C and 
>>> paste?
>>> I don't know if one can assume anything if Narrator remains silent 
>>> when you
>>> press CONTROL-C.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Talk
>>> [mailto:talk-bounces+steve.jacobson=visi@lists.window-eyes.com] On
>>> Behalf Of Carol and Roger via Talk
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 9:36 AM
>>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
>>> Cc: Carol and Roger 
>>> Subject: Re: Now for a new challenge?
>>>
>>> Honest, I wouldn't joke about this one, grin.  I tried to copy and 
>>> paste
>>> a file to my new computer from an external drive.  I selected the by
>>> pressing spacebar.  Narrator said selected.  I did ctrl-c and Narrator
>>> said nothing.  OK, I thought maybe I didn't do it correctly. So, I
>>> deselected the file and did the same thing. Thinking it may just not
>>> speak, I pasted it to the new drive. Nothing happened.  I looked for 
>>> the
>>> edit commands and did not find them.  So, where do they hide?
>>>
>>> Carol
>>>
>>> On 12/13/2017 9:31 AM, Rod Hutton via Talk wrote:
 Hi Carol,

 Ctrl-C, Ctrl-X, and Ctrl-V all work, as do the normal selection 
 methods,
>>> the only problem being Narrator's abysmal lack of verbosity.
 Best,

 Rod

 -Original Message-
 From: Talk
>>> [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
>>> On Behalf
>>> Of Carol and Roger via Talk
 Sent: December 13, 2017 7:26 AM
 To: talk >> Window-Eyes Discussion List 
 Cc: Carol and Roger 
 Subject: Now for a new challenge?

 OK, I have most of my files from my old PC on my external drive.  I 
 tried
>>> to copy one last night to the Win10 pc.  It still is using Narrator.  I
>>> tried using control-c to copy the file, but it would not copy.  Also, I
>>> could not find it on the ribbon. Where does one find editing commands?
>>> Thanks.
 Carol


 ___
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>>>
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>>>  
>>>
>>> mbarqmail.com.
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 List archives can be found at
>>> 

Re: Is there a start up sound for sound for JAWS or a way to enable one?

[David via Talk]

By default,

     NOPE!


If you are familiar with scripting, or do know someone who are, you 
might be able to make a small script, which would provide such a 
feature. Funny why they never gave Jaws that small jingle, whenever Jaws 
is starting or ending. I mean, WinEyes has had it for years, and NVDA 
likewise.


Seem to remember, someone on the list having created the needed script, 
but don't remember who, or how to get it.


On 12/13/2017 12:15 AM, Ashley Breger via Talk wrote:
>
> Sent from my iPhone hi guys,
> I was just wondering does anybody know if there is anyway to enable a start 
> up sound for jaws?
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Ashley
> ___
> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author 
> and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>
> For membership options, visit 
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/trailerdavid%40hotmail.com.
> For subscription options, visit 
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
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> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
> .
>

___
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Re: tb files

[David via Talk]

Suppose you stick with Thunderbird.

Go ahead and install Thunderbird on your new computer, like you would 
normally do. One good source to get the newest version, would be Ninite, 
and there you actually can build a complete installer that will get your 
favorite applications onto the new computer, altogether in one turn.

After installing Thunderbird, do as follows:

1. On your old system, Open Windows Explorer.

2. Hit Alt-D, to get to the address bar.

3. Enter the following:

     %appdata%

including the percent signs, and press Enter.

4. Scroll down to the Thunderbird folder, and copy the whole folder, by 
hitting Ctrl-C.

5. Point your Windows Explorer to an external drive, like a USB pen. You 
can for instance go to the address bar, by Alt-D, and enter things like:
     e:
or,
     x:
which would be the drive letter, followed by a colon, and then Enter.
6. once in the Explorer window of your external drive, press Ctrl-V, to 
paste the whole Thunderbird folder. Give it enough time to finishing the 
copying.

Now, bring out your new system, and copy the Thunderbird folder, into 
the %appdata%-folder there. It already has such a folder, due to you 
already having Thunderbird installed there. So when you are asked if you 
want to replace the folder on your new system, make sure you answer YES 
to ALL such queries.

Once  the copying process has ended, start Thunderbird on your new 
computer, and enjoy. Not only will it copy all your settings, but also 
will have migrated your email accounts, your addressbook, and all your 
mails. If you have the mails sorted on your old system, they will be 
similarly sorted on your new computer. And your new computer will be all 
up-to-date, on which was the last mail you read, and so forth. In other 
words, you have made a true copy of all your mail setup, and can 
continue right from there.

The process is that amazingly simple, once you have got the hook of it, 
that it might serve as a good way for you to make frequent and regular 
backups of yor mail.

Should you not have an External drive, you might be able to do the same 
operation on a blank DVD. Or, if you have enough space on a cloud drive, 
you could go that route as well, though I would be careful in putting 
any private mails up on the cloud, no matter how temporarily. Thing is, 
it should be done the very same way, no matter the media you use for the 
transport.

Hope this gave you, and others, a pointer in the right direction. I do 
have no idea about Thunderbird over other mail clients, but if you are 
used to Thunderbird, why not simply stick with what works?


On 12/12/2017 5:19 PM, Carol and Roger via Talk wrote:> Hi, \ I now have 
my new computer.  I wonder if anyone can tell me how
 > to backup all of my folders and email messages so I can move them.  I
 > made a csv backup file for all of my contacts.  If I move my email
 > messages, am I restricted to use TB or would I be able to use
 > Microsoft Mail?  Also, which would be better for me to use? Thanks.
 >
 > Carol
 >
 >
 > ___ Any views or opinions
 > presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not
 > necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
 >
 > For membership options, visit
 > 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/trailerdavid%40hotmail.com.
 >
 > For subscription options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com> List 
archives can be found at
 > http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com .
 >
hings
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Re: Question About KNFB and camera.

[David via Talk]

 with the KNFB program is 
>>> decipher scanned PDF files that are already in my WLM email, will 
>>> the KNFB reader read those internally with no camera or any other 
>>> device needed?
>>>
>>> I have Win 10 and WLM 12 on a del PC.
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: David via Talk
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 2:16 PM
>>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
>>> Cc: David
>>> Subject: Re: Question About KNFB and camera.
>>>
>>> PDF documents, or any other file formats on your computer, are
>>> electronically stored information.
>>>
>>>
>>> Cameras cannot read electronic documents. They are such constructed,
>>> they need to "see" things in real, before they can do anything.
>>>
>>>
>>> All electronic formats, be it music, video, documents or just any
>>> blah-blah-blah, will have to be processed internally in the computer.
>>>
>>>
>>> To best illustrate things, may I suggest you think of the camera as the
>>> "eye" of the computer. Let's at the same time, tell the scanner to be
>>> the other "eye" of the PC. The CPU, (or processor), the RAM and any
>>> other electronic inside your computer's physical box - well, let's name
>>> it the brain. Even so, the hard disk or SSD, which we will compare to
>>> your "deep memory".
>>>
>>>
>>> As you well know, your physical eyes cannot "look" inside the brain, 
>>> and
>>> perform anything from within your body. Rather, the eyes can feed the
>>> brain with information, which your brain now can process.
>>>
>>>
>>> Back to your query. You will need a camera to feed any written or
>>> physically visible information into the computer. Whatever has already
>>> been fed into the computer, like an electronically stored document, 
>>> will
>>> be non-interesting for the camera, scanner or any further feeding
>>> equipment. All processing of what you have in your brain, will be done
>>> by the brain directly. All information already stored on your computer,
>>> will be processed directly by the computer, and loaded software.
>>>
>>>
>>> I know, you wanted a quick answer to your question. I just thought it
>>> might be helpful for you and others, to have a clarified comprehension
>>> of why the answer is the way it stands.
>>>
>>>
>>> To jhust elaborate a tiny bit here, let me in very short terms tell you
>>> how any OCR software works.
>>>
>>> First of all, it needs to retrieve some information. It will typically
>>> leave you the chance of defining whether it should grab some electronic
>>> document, or if it should contact an external piece of equipment - like
>>> a camera or a scanner. To the software, it basically does not matter
>>> whichever way you feed it with information.
>>>
>>>
>>> Next, it will start to process the information it has loaded into its
>>> memory. All such electronic information is made up of 0's and 1's, also
>>> known as pixels. And the software will compare the layout of these, 
>>> with
>>> an internal dictionary. The dictionary will be like a tremendous
>>> collection of stencils. If the OCR finds that a set of dots (or pixels)
>>> in the received information matches any stencil in the dictionary, it
>>> will know what character this will represent. It now will "type" this
>>> character into a virtual document, thereby imitating you pressing a key
>>> on the keyboard.
>>>
>>>
>>> Finally, when it has finished the whole loaded information, it will
>>> present you with the virtually typed document.
>>>
>>>
>>> For your information, in old times, the stencil-lookup was pretty 
>>> much a
>>> one-to-one comparison. That means, it would need a match that would be
>>> very close to the exact stenciled shape. If it was to recognize 
>>> anything
>>> to be the letter O, it would need a set of pixels in a perfect circle.
>>>
>>>
>>> Modern OCR software has become far mor "inteligent", whatever we 
>>> want to
>>> talk about inteligence when comes to silly electronic units like a
>>> computer. The inteligence is that the OCR no longer will depend on 
>>> close
>>> to exact matches. To a very high degree, it might "look" at the
>&g

Re: Question About KNFB and camera.

[David via Talk]

PDF documents, or any other file formats on your computer, are 
electronically stored information.


Cameras cannot read electronic documents. They are such constructed, 
they need to "see" things in real, before they can do anything.


All electronic formats, be it music, video, documents or just any 
blah-blah-blah, will have to be processed internally in the computer.


To best illustrate things, may I suggest you think of the camera as the 
"eye" of the computer. Let's at the same time, tell the scanner to be 
the other "eye" of the PC. The CPU, (or processor), the RAM and any 
other electronic inside your computer's physical box - well, let's name 
it the brain. Even so, the hard disk or SSD, which we will compare to 
your "deep memory".


As you well know, your physical eyes cannot "look" inside the brain, and 
perform anything from within your body. Rather, the eyes can feed the 
brain with information, which your brain now can process.


Back to your query. You will need a camera to feed any written or 
physically visible information into the computer. Whatever has already 
been fed into the computer, like an electronically stored document, will 
be non-interesting for the camera, scanner or any further feeding 
equipment. All processing of what you have in your brain, will be done 
by the brain directly. All information already stored on your computer, 
will be processed directly by the computer, and loaded software.


I know, you wanted a quick answer to your question. I just thought it 
might be helpful for you and others, to have a clarified comprehension 
of why the answer is the way it stands.


To jhust elaborate a tiny bit here, let me in very short terms tell you 
how any OCR software works.

First of all, it needs to retrieve some information. It will typically 
leave you the chance of defining whether it should grab some electronic 
document, or if it should contact an external piece of equipment - like 
a camera or a scanner. To the software, it basically does not matter 
whichever way you feed it with information.


Next, it will start to process the information it has loaded into its 
memory. All such electronic information is made up of 0's and 1's, also 
known as pixels. And the software will compare the layout of these, with 
an internal dictionary. The dictionary will be like a tremendous 
collection of stencils. If the OCR finds that a set of dots (or pixels) 
in the received information matches any stencil in the dictionary, it 
will know what character this will represent. It now will "type" this 
character into a virtual document, thereby imitating you pressing a key 
on the keyboard.


Finally, when it has finished the whole loaded information, it will 
present you with the virtually typed document.


For your information, in old times, the stencil-lookup was pretty much a 
one-to-one comparison. That means, it would need a match that would be 
very close to the exact stenciled shape. If it was to recognize anything 
to be the letter O, it would need a set of pixels in a perfect circle.


Modern OCR software has become far mor "inteligent", whatever we want to 
talk about inteligence when comes to silly electronic units like a 
computer. The inteligence is that the OCR no longer will depend on close 
to exact matches. To a very high degree, it might "look" at the 
properties of a scanned character, and base its recognition on the 
results thereof. For instance, it would conclude that a set of pixels 
that resemble two parallel vertical lines, slightly spaced from each 
other, with a horizontal line running just about mid-way up between the 
verticals - all in all will be interpreted as the capitalized letter H.

Likewise, a vertical bar, with a tiny line pointing diagonally out from 
the upper left end, will likely be told to be the number 1.


As you might understand, such propetary comparison will be more 
forgiving, than if you were to compare exact matches. You no longer need 
to define how high the character can be, or what the width should be. 
The OCR can "see" this is the number 9, big or small print, simply by 
recognizing the shape and other properties of the character. This is one 
of the reasons, modern OCR can perform high degrees of faultless 
recognition. In the old days of the 80's, often a number 9, and the 
lower-case G, would be confusingly recognized as either, due to the fact 
that they quite much would resemble similar pixel-patterns.


to improve the OCR recognition, modern OCR software further will hold 
comprehensive dictionaries for spelling, in several languages. It is 
considered very little likely, that any word in English would be:

     log9ing,

so the OCR will recognize this as if it was a common typo, and replace 
the 9 with a g, making the word:

     logging,

which happens to be a validly spelled English word.


Since they now aday do propetary stencilized OCR, they also can perform 
recognition of hand-writing. At least, to a certain 

Re: need new PC recommendations

[David via Talk]

Perhaps you have already made your choice, but still here goes.


Now aday a CD/DVD reader and burner, is no longer an issue. Long as you 
have a spare USB connector on your PC, you can pick up USB driven, 
external DVD burners for around the 50-100 dollar range. They are no 
bigger in size, than pretty much the size of a DVD plastic case; and 
don't weigh much other than half the pound. Good for desktops as well as 
for laptops, netbooks, or any other device that can transfer DVD signals 
over the USB. And by the way, if it can handle DVD, it also can handle 
anything below, like CD, PhotoCD, MP3 CDs and so forth. All you make 
sure of, is that it is marked as DVD+- - that is, it has a pluss and a 
minus marking. Most drives now have, but it means they can take all 
kinds of DVDs. Won't deal with the techs about the plus and minus here, 
just make sure.


Again, are you looking for a desktop, long as it has extra slots 
available, you are good to go. Internal drives for CD/DVD and even 
BlueRay reading, can be had for little money - less than 50 dollars - 
pretty much everywhere. That is, should you not get the computer with it 
already installed.


For the microphone?

Go for USB mics. They can be had for around ten bugs or less. Even 
external mics running on the standard 3.5mm jack, can be had for around 
a couple of dollars, on places like EBay. Picked up a handful very cheap 
ones a while ago, and they were that good they even picked up car doors 
slamming in the frontyard. You of course can go for mics that has noise 
reduction, and which will take away background noise. Just be aware, 
that is what most cellphones now aday has for a mic, and we all know how 
hard it could be to listen to someone on a muffled cellphone, don't we.


Again, headsets with built-in mics, can be had both as USB driven, or 
with standard 3.5mm jack. They can be had from around 25 dollars, and 
many of them have quite good microphones as well. You do not have to buy 
them from the same store as your computer, and you can very well pick up 
such periphals at any later time, when you want to play with it.


Then, to your USB query. Long as you have one or two USB ports 
accessible, you are quite well served on a desktop. By accessible, I 
mean to say, they are on the front panel. Even if there is a few on the 
back panel, use them for your printer and the like, which has to be 
permanently attached anyway.


Now, spend another 5 dollars or more on the net, and pick up a USB hub. 
They can be had with as much as 10-ports. You can connect it to one of 
the ports on the computer. Even if you want, connect it to the back 
panel ports of the PC. Then place the hub right next to your keyboard, 
and do all your connections of the keyboard, mouse, USB microphone and 
headset, Backup medias, or whatever other stuff you need to have 
connected. Good thing is, now you can bundle up your cables in nice 
small rolls, only long enough to reach the USB hub. From the hub, to the 
computer, you then only need ONE cable. This will mean little clutter as 
possible on your desk. And, it means only one cable to be in risk of 
over-stretching and needing replacement down the line.


Again, probably you have already made your buyings, but hopefully 
someone else can benefit from these thoughts.

David


On 11/24/2017 9:51 PM, Carol and Roger via Talk wrote:
> Thanks Michael,
>
> Yes, it looks like I am most likely heading for another desktop. I 
> will neeed to do a bit of looking around to find just what I want.  I 
> am making a list of people's recommendations to have available once I 
> start my shopping.  It's silly, but i want to make sure I have a 
> working microphone, grin.  It is tough to join in with webinars and 
> SKYPE and other things without one.  I still use my CD/DVD burner, so 
> I will need one of those, also.  These are little minor things I don't 
> want to forget.  I figure a 256g SSD should work well with at least 8g 
> ram.  I want enough USB ports so I can hook up more than two items and 
> I want them where I can reach them, not where I have to climb under my 
> desk, grin.  I am thankful to all of the people that have given me 
> ideas today.
>
> Carol
>
>
>
> On 11/24/2017 1:56 PM, Micallef Michael at FITA via Talk wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> My suggestion is this,
>> In case of a desktop:
>> As a drive go for an SSD of at least120 specifically for the 
>> operating system then add an another sata drive of about 1 or 2 
>> terrabyte for the other  Regarding RAM nowadays this is quite cheap, 
>> so go for between 12 or 16GB so in the future you avoid to upgrade 
>> the ram.
>>
>> In case of a laptop
>> As a hard-disk go for 1TB SSD with 12 or 16 GB RAM, I bout my laptop 
>> for about €1,000with these mentioned specifications and windows 10 
>> operating system.
>> One another thing regarding Video ram go for a dedicated one and do 
>> not relay totally on those  on board video rams.
>> Thanks,
>>
>> -Original Message-

Re: need new PC recommendations

[David via Talk]

As for the question of yours, regarding hybrid disks.


Some have claimed this to be a solution. The idea of it all is, that 
every time you write to an SSD, it wears a little. Older models were 
more vulnerable. Today the technology has greatly improved, and getting 
an SSD from well-known manufacturers, will ensure you can literally 
write to the disk millions of times.


Next argument for the hybrid, is that people are afraid of the SSD to 
fail. In daily usage, for the general user, I would say the chance is 
low. Performing regular backups might be a good idea for everyone, and 
it will ensure just as much of reliability for your data.


The whole idea of a hybrid, is that it has a minor SSD - often only 16, 
32 or 64GB - and a huge harddisk of anything from 128GB, to more like 1 
Tetrabyte. You would install all your programs on the fast SSD, and then 
save all your data on the slow hard disk. Great idea. Only here we get 
to a bit of choice making.


First of all, are we talking laptops, I don't know if I have seen any 
hybrids for that market. A laptop that runs on a bigger SSD, and which 
would have a USB connected harddisk or even a USB stick, will be just as 
fast, and you would have your data directly on an external media, should 
such be the wantings of yours.


As for a desktop, again I am ready to claim the hybrid to be a bit of an 
outdated idea. Most desktops would have trays for more than one hard 
drive. If your worries are that an SSD would not be reliable enough, and 
you stiff-necked refuse to do regular backup of your sensitive data, I 
have a much better idea. A bit more costly, but still. Why not buy one 
bigg SSD, for daily usage, and then a cheap and huge harddisk for all 
your worries.


Or, even better, independent on whether you run laptop or desktop:

How about simply geting your new computer with a pretty SSD. Get it as 
big as you can afford, anything from 128GB for a light user, and from 
250GB and up for the general user. Then, as your savings compile, you 
might simply pick up an external USB harddisk, which now aday can be had 
for anything from around the 100 dollars and up. You even can get 
external hard drives now aday, with as much as 2, even 4, tetrabytes of 
capacity. This way, you will have a fast daily experience with your new 
computer and its SSD, without anything to slow it down. And, best of 
all, you have your external backup media right there, with the USB 
harddisk, which can save as a backup even should you go to another 
system at a later time, or should your SSD ever fail on you.


Like I said, go for as big an SSD as your means can aford. You will have 
the best experience from that. Hybrids are from a time when SSD's were 
expensive, and less reliable. Modern versions are generally no trouble. 
And you will simply just enjoy SSD driven computers. It is amazing how 
fast they work compared to harddisks. They also consume far less power, 
meaning less heating. Your fan will spin less. And on a laptop, you will 
see the battery life extended with anything from 30% and up.


Again, hope any of this will prove helpful to you.


David

On 11/24/2017 3:00 PM, Carol and Roger via Talk wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I must get a new PC.  I am looking for suggestions for one that will 
> meet the best use criteria for speech.  Is 8g ram enough or should I 
> get 12?  Should I get both SSD and SETA frives?  If I neeed SSD, how 
> large should it be?  Generally, which would be the best brand?  I know 
> this is a personal choice.  I have had Dells for the last two 
> computers and am wondering if something else would be better.  I have 
> Office 2007.  Can I use 2007 on a win10 system or Should I get 2016?  
> My current PC is almost 8 years old and is beginning to do some wierd 
> stuff, so I thought I had better take care of getting a new one before 
> this one gives up.
>
> Finally, does anyone use a hybred and what do they think of it.  I 
> know I do not want a notebook, so it must be either a hybred, a decent 
> laptop or another desktop.  Thanks for any suggestions.  Oh yes, I 
> would like to get one on sale today, grin.
>
> Carol
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Re: need new PC recommendations

[David via Talk]

Basically, the more RAM, the better. Yet, to a certain degree, lack of RAM can 
often be compensated by an SSD, instead of a harddisk. SSD in its very basic 
form, is nothing but a huge RAM. And be fore anyone arrests me, I did say in 
its basic terms, since there would be a whole article to be written, in order 
for dealing with all the details of those choices.


Still, getting a computer with loads of RAM, and a slow harddisk, might turn 
out to be just as bad as a computer with somehow less RAM, and an SSD. Guess is 
that 12GB RAM with a harddisk, will perform much like an 8GB with SSD.


Now, this only took care of a third of the computer issue, seen from a 
technical standpoint. Next comes the CPU speed, the question of whether the 
computer has a dedicated Graphics card, which would unload the main CPU from 
all that goes to the screen.


As a third issue to be considered, would be the sound. Since you are using it 
as a blind person, you do not want to end up with speakers that sounds like 
they had been dug out of the trash bin. Not sure how well sounding most 
computers are now aday, since I personally prefer to buy second-hand devices, a 
year or two old. This lets me often get hold of higher-class devices, for the 
same price that I would have to pay for low-end stuff on sale, while it is 
brand new. Business class models often has far better components, are built 
with stronger materials, and might be less loaded with clutter and silly-ware. 
Specially if you are looking for a portable unit, you might want to look into 
the mid-classed, that is the beginning of the business class in some cases, to 
get hold of a proper system.


I am currently running a Dell Latitude model myself, and have been really well 
pleased with the performance. It still runs on its 4GB, and I took the plunge 
and installed an SSD a couple of years ago. For differen reasons I did have it 
running back on its original Hard disk, last year for a little bit of time. The 
performance was afordable, but nothing more than that. The day I re-inserted 
the SSD, the speed was like going from 10 to 50 miles an hour, in less than the 
twinkle of an eye. That is why I do claim, that an SSD might be a better go, 
than the higher RAM.


If you want to play safe, why not go for a system that easily can be upgraded. 
Buy it with low RAM and an SSD now, and upgrade it with more RAM, should you 
find the need. Just do make sure, as a number of modern computers come fully 
loaded already, meaning that if they are sold with 8GB RAM, that is the maximum 
of what they can ever take. Again, these are the models that typically ends up 
on sale.


Sure, sale is a wonderful way of saving a few bugs. Unfortunately, often the 
stuff that goes on the best-price sales, will be the low-end models, which 
tends to be non-upgradable. I would be a bit sceptical to buy such models, 
unless you are very eager on getting a new computer next time there is a major 
upgrade to some software. Smiles. Do you have the money, go one or two steps 
up, as it might give you a system that is going to serve you for the next few 
many years.


And, don't forget! Please buy from sources that will accept returns. Even if 
possible, buy from stores that can answer your questions - beforehand. Many 
computers now aday do have silly keyboard layouts. Some models have even 
changed the default behavior of the function keys, which is a real pain - not 
only for you and I, but even for driven sighted users. You do want the store to 
either guarantee you will have the standard function keys, or who are willing 
to do the necessary modification in the BIOS, should you go for one of the 
affected models.


OK, lot of this info is not fully relevant, if you are looking at desktop 
models. They are often more upgradable, and will be less affected by things 
like the function key issue.


As I am still hanging on to my Win7, I am not in a position to answer fully 
your questions around Office. But I would have thought Office 2007 might still 
be valid under Win10. A quick search on the net, might be a good lane to go. 
Why not search for something like:

running MSOffice under Win10

, and see what feedback people have on the matter. Even 10-15 minutes of quick 
reading, might give you a pretty good feeling on how smoothly people have found 
the experience.


As computers now aday are quite varying, if you have the time and chance, going 
to a store and get hands-on feeling with a couple of models, might be worth the 
trip. Even if you don't intend to buy from the store, do your research, make up 
your mind, and then go home and order over the net. Shipping a computer back 
and forth because you ended up with a bad product, might likely cost you more 
than the trip to the store.


My impression is that HP due tend to show up several issues these days. Dell - 
and I hear some users saying Linovo - might be products to look for. But like 
you said, it is all a matter of personal 

Re: NVDA and Touch Screens

[David via Talk]

Memory serves me right, turning on and off browse mode in nvda, you have 
to press Insert-Space.


As for touch-screen support, I am no familiar, so cannot help.


Like you have already been adviced, you might want to ask your questions 
on the NVDA list. I do know, there was some discussion about touch 
handling, recently. Yet, since I am not on such a device, I skipped it all.



On 11/16/2017 10:08 PM, Andre via Talk wrote:
> I was wondering about NVDA and touch screens. I have to help my son access
> ABC Mouse on a pc running Windows 10 (fall creators). It seems like
> something has changed. Maybe not though. Basically my question is:
>
>   
>
>   
>
> Is it possible to keep NVDA running (for me) and still allow him to just use
> the regular touch screen gestures? For instance, when I have him on YouTube
> and I'm running NVDA so I can choose what I want him to watch, he can't just
> tap on play/pause and have it play or pause the video. I have to completely
> quit NVDA. After doing a Google search, I tried the sleep mode, but that
> didn't seem to work either. So are there any addons I can get to negate the
> nvda touch gestures, etc.?
>
>   
>
> Hopefully you understand what I'm asking. If not, please let me know. By the
> way, I'm no NVDA expert either. I know he can just touch the screen when I'm
> running Window-Eyes, but my browse mode feature disappeared and that was WE
> 9.5.4. I'm trying NVDA 2017.3. I think that's what it's called. So is there
> a way to keep NVDA running and turn off its touch support? I figure if I can
> do that, then that will kind of simulate Window-Eyes' browse mode.
>
>   
>
>   
>
> Thanks a lot for your help.
>
>   
>
>   
>
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Firefox Again

[David via Talk]

A couple of weeks ago, we had the new Firefox breaking the accessibility 
under WinEyes. It is well known, from version 56 and up, Firefox will no 
longer operate with WinEyes.


Someone kindly pointed us to the business - or ESR - version of firefox, 
at the time being version 52. I followed their advice, and installed it, 
greatly enjoying to have my Firefox back on stage.


This morning, Firefox notified me there was a security update to my 
installation. In other words, no new version, just a maintenence update. 
Hence, I agreed to have it perform the update.


Yeah, I take it, you have already guessed what. From now on, my Firefox 
says version 52.5, and is no longer doable with WinEyes. It no longer 
goes into the programs Main Window, but says Document Window. Here you 
can tab around, but the arrow keys produces no real effect, and browse 
mode is reported to be:

     Not Available.

Oh, how I hate that message. Smiles.


OK, if anyone have seen different behavior, or have got to a bit of 
knowledge on how to get Firefox back, we are all ears. To me, it seems 
Firefox simply has crept out of all cooperation with our screen reader. 
Little do I hold it realistic it will ever come back.


Some place, I seem to recently have read, that someone from the NVDA 
team had gone to Mozilla. It then is strange that we are facing this 
kind of lack of accessibility. It even states, under Help and About, 
that Firefox is meant to make the web accessible to everyone. I guess, 
that means except from old-timers with their WinEyes. Smiles and LOL.


For some, Chrome might be an alternative. The rest of us, will be back 
to Internet Explorer. Chrome has its benefits, but so far I have had 
issues with it under certain operations.


Following NVDA discussions lately, even that screen reader seem to have 
high issues with the newest firefox releases. It is being claimed, 
things will get better in version 58, but to what extent that will 
affect WinEyes, I am doubtful. And a recent note I read from VFO, on 
Jaws, seemed to indicate that even Jaws users are experiencing trouble 
with Mozilla lately. It was recommended not to use Firefox with Jaws 
2018, if I remember correctly. Currently, I am not on that version of 
Jaws, so cannot confirm. Anyone here has had a chance to test newest 
releases of the screen reader and browser together?


Goodbye to a long-lasting browser, which had numerous and beneficial 
advantages over any other products. Along with the somehow old-fashioned 
way of operating the web with Jaws - which to a degree reminds me of 
where WinEyes was a handful of years ago, the whole Internet browsing 
experience now seem to be a setback. Sure is going to take a bit of 
time, to get back to normal browsing speed.


Sure, they made it secure? Didn't they. So secure you can't even use it. 
That is another kind of safety. Well, seems not even sighted users are 
comfortable with the newest moves from Mozilla. Probably why they tell 
the next release (58) will have some advancements. Does it remind you of 
what happened to things like Windows8, and the fact they had to go back 
on certain of the news, when releasing next versions? So maybe we should 
not wave totally goodbye to Mozilla all yet. I just wish they would have 
a setting somewhere, which would let the browser run the old way, even 
if they make some security adjustments behind the scene.


Just wanted to let you know my findings. If anyone have ideas, I for one 
will be listening.


For your info, I am under Win7 64bit, and the Firefox is reported as 
v52.5ESR 32bit.


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Re: An error when trying to use virtual view

[David via Talk]

Tom,

you wouldn't happen to know the exact filename of the Windows OCR? Just 
got a mind to do some testing here.


On 10/31/2017 2:22 PM, Tom Kingston via Talk wrote:
> David,
> I wouldn't be so sure about the OCR not being primed before the main 
> dialog appears. This is typical programming: prime the requisite pumps 
> before showing the window so the user doesn't have to wait after 
> making a choice. This is what spawned the use of splash screens. Users 
> tend to think of them as either a little artistic statement or an 
> advertisement or reminder of the program their using. But they came to 
> be to prevent a noticeable delay as the program primed the pumps. It 
> gives the illusion that the program fired right up.
> Regards,
> Tom
>
>
>
> On 10/31/2017 1:52 AM, David wrote:
>> Tom,
>>
>> Thanks for your many ideas.
>>
>>
>> Things clreared up a bit, when Larry tells us, that things happen
>> immediately after him pressing the hotkey. That is, before the app gets
>> to even show its initial dialog. Agree with you Tom, something is going
>> on in the initiating of the app. For some reason, I am ready to say that
>> tells us there is nothing wrong with the OCR, since that would likely
>> not be performed until after the initial dialog, and the user having
>> chosen if the OCR would be done on the Active, or the Focused window.
>>
>>
>> Your idea about deleting the ini file, is a good one. Basically, I would
>> have gone even another step further. Under the App menu in the WE
>> control panel, go to the add/remove, and simply remove the VirtualView.
>> For all chances, close Window-Eyes totally down, and restart it. Then go
>> ahead and install the VirtualView. This way, you will get a completely
>> clean install, chancing out all left-overs from previous installations.
>> You could even go to the Default folder, and make sure the
>> uninstallation had removed all residues.
>>
>>
>> If Larry could have gone through some of these steps, and let us know if
>> any of it brought him anything further. Got a feeling the app would run
>> nicely enough, but it gets hooked at the very startup. Like when your
>> car is out of battery, it would drive totally fine, if only you got some
>> power on it. Smiles.
>>
>>
>> On 10/31/2017 4:39 AM, Tom Kingston via Talk wrote:
>>> Larry,
>>> First, no need to go to confession on Window-Eyes for Office. It's the
>>> same program. (smile)
>>> Like Rod, I thought of the Fall Creators update after sending my
>>> message because from what I've read it's pretty buggy. And I haven't
>>> updated to it either. So did this start right after installing the
>>> Fall Update?
>>> In reference to David's comments, it's worth disabling other apps,
>>> especially if you use a lot of them. You can do this under Apps, App
>>> management, App manager. If the "Show more options" check box is
>>> checked, which you can tab down to, you can just go through your list
>>> and hit Alt-E to disable them.  Do the same again to re-enable them. I
>>> actually disable the apps I seldom use and just enable them when I
>>> need them and then disable them again. And compared to many I use few
>>> apps to begin with. In my opinion less is more.
>>> Regarding your question about the OCR component, David? The easiest
>>> way to tell would be to close Window-Eyes, launch NVDA, and try its
>>> OCR. It also uses the built-in Windows OCR.
>>> I've never used it before because I too haven't gotten around to
>>> actually learning NVDA to any real extent. But I just tried it and it
>>> worked fine. I went into Thunderbird and while focused on a message in
>>> the in-box list I hit NVDA+R. This is only going to give you OCR of
>>> the focused item. So all I got was the message I was focused on. And
>>> just to twist my brain a little the title bar in the OCR viewer is the
>>> title bar of the window you're recognizing. But that one entry was
>>> broken into three lines: sender, subject, date and time. And that was
>>> all that was in the window.
>>> Then press escape to do just that.
>>> Regarding reinstalling the GW-Toolkit? Typically if that isn't working
>>> most apps won't work. But it can't hurt to try.
>>> And after pondering it a bit more I'm not so sure it has anything to
>>> do with the dialog, even though the error is with the dlgResult
>>> object. In this type of app I would build all the needed constructs
>>> first, get those elements primed, and then load the dialog. But this
>>> is where these apps being encrypted makes it impossible to do more
>>> than toss out random guesses. I would expect any errors prior to the
>>> display of the dialog to be caught and a message window posted to the
>>> user. I can't imagine why just showing a dialog would suddenly start
>>> throwing an error.
>>> One more thing you can try is to open the Window-Eyes control panel,
>>> Alt-F File, E Explore profile folder, find virtualView.ini and either
>>> delete it or rename it VirtualView.ini.bak. This will default it 

Re: An error when trying to use virtual view

[David via Talk]

Tom,

Thanks for your many ideas.


Things clreared up a bit, when Larry tells us, that things happen 
immediately after him pressing the hotkey. That is, before the app gets 
to even show its initial dialog. Agree with you Tom, something is going 
on in the initiating of the app. For some reason, I am ready to say that 
tells us there is nothing wrong with the OCR, since that would likely 
not be performed until after the initial dialog, and the user having 
chosen if the OCR would be done on the Active, or the Focused window.


Your idea about deleting the ini file, is a good one. Basically, I would 
have gone even another step further. Under the App menu in the WE 
control panel, go to the add/remove, and simply remove the VirtualView. 
For all chances, close Window-Eyes totally down, and restart it. Then go 
ahead and install the VirtualView. This way, you will get a completely 
clean install, chancing out all left-overs from previous installations. 
You could even go to the Default folder, and make sure the 
uninstallation had removed all residues.


If Larry could have gone through some of these steps, and let us know if 
any of it brought him anything further. Got a feeling the app would run 
nicely enough, but it gets hooked at the very startup. Like when your 
car is out of battery, it would drive totally fine, if only you got some 
power on it. Smiles.


On 10/31/2017 4:39 AM, Tom Kingston via Talk wrote:
> Larry,
> First, no need to go to confession on Window-Eyes for Office. It's the 
> same program. (smile)
> Like Rod, I thought of the Fall Creators update after sending my 
> message because from what I've read it's pretty buggy. And I haven't 
> updated to it either. So did this start right after installing the 
> Fall Update?
> In reference to David's comments, it's worth disabling other apps, 
> especially if you use a lot of them. You can do this under Apps, App 
> management, App manager. If the "Show more options" check box is 
> checked, which you can tab down to, you can just go through your list 
> and hit Alt-E to disable them.  Do the same again to re-enable them. I 
> actually disable the apps I seldom use and just enable them when I 
> need them and then disable them again. And compared to many I use few 
> apps to begin with. In my opinion less is more.
> Regarding your question about the OCR component, David? The easiest 
> way to tell would be to close Window-Eyes, launch NVDA, and try its 
> OCR. It also uses the built-in Windows OCR.
> I've never used it before because I too haven't gotten around to 
> actually learning NVDA to any real extent. But I just tried it and it 
> worked fine. I went into Thunderbird and while focused on a message in 
> the in-box list I hit NVDA+R. This is only going to give you OCR of 
> the focused item. So all I got was the message I was focused on. And 
> just to twist my brain a little the title bar in the OCR viewer is the 
> title bar of the window you're recognizing. But that one entry was 
> broken into three lines: sender, subject, date and time. And that was 
> all that was in the window.
> Then press escape to do just that.
> Regarding reinstalling the GW-Toolkit? Typically if that isn't working 
> most apps won't work. But it can't hurt to try.
> And after pondering it a bit more I'm not so sure it has anything to 
> do with the dialog, even though the error is with the dlgResult 
> object. In this type of app I would build all the needed constructs 
> first, get those elements primed, and then load the dialog. But this 
> is where these apps being encrypted makes it impossible to do more 
> than toss out random guesses. I would expect any errors prior to the 
> display of the dialog to be caught and a message window posted to the 
> user. I can't imagine why just showing a dialog would suddenly start 
> throwing an error.
> One more thing you can try is to open the Window-Eyes control panel, 
> Alt-F File, E Explore profile folder, find virtualView.ini and either 
> delete it or rename it VirtualView.ini.bak. This will default it back 
> to clip recognition rather than OCR if that's the active mode.
> Otherwise I'm out of guesses. At least for tonight.
> Wait! Hold the presses! Go into App Manager, tab down to Security, and 
> make sure it's set to trust all apps.
> Good luck,
> Tom
>
>
> On 10/30/2017 9:16 PM, Larry Higgins via Talk wrote:
>> Tom,
>>
>>
>> Thanks for the suggestion. I did look to see if Windows TIFF iFilter
>>
>>   was indeed checked,, and it was, but it made no difference.
>>
>> The error comes up as soon as I run VV.
>>
>> I must confess that I am using WE for Office, but never have 
>> experienced this ever before. It has always been a useful app, VV 
>> that is.
>>
>> If you can come up with any other reasonable suggestions, they would 
>> really be very much appreciated. Who knows maybe it is about time to 
>> really knuckle down with NVDA, but I really don't wanna .
>>
>> Thanks again,
>>
>> Larry
>>
>> On 

Re: An error when trying to use virtual view

[David via Talk]

OK, got no answer for you. Still some reflections.


I just tried VV in Thunderbird, both in the list of messages, and in an 
open message window. I tried running VV, choosing the Active Window - it 
worked just fine. I tried running VV, asking it to go for the focused 
window - it worked as ever before.


Accordingly, I have to conclude the app works as expected on this 
system, as per date. Then the big question would be, why it doesn't on 
your computer? Or, even better, how to remedy?


Like I said, no answer's given. But it is not totally clear to me, at 
what point you get the error. Let's break it down for a moment.

1. You bring up a screen, like the folder list in Thunderbird.

2. You hit the hotkey for VirtualView to kick in.

3. The app will come up with a menu dialog, which will let you choose 
whether the app should care about the Active, Focused window, or if it 
even should go grab a file, and perform its action there instead.

4. You make your selection, and hit Enter.

5. The app does its job, and provide you with a dialog holding the end 
results.

6. You read the dialog.

7. You close the dialog, thereby ending the process.


Could you please tell us, exactly in which step is it that you get the 
error? Maybe, and I am only saying perhasp, we then will be able to get 
to the bottlenecked reason why you are seeing the behavior. OK, I am 
still on Win7Pro, and for what that could be worth, it is a 64-bit OS. 
If you are on another OS, I do not know if that would have an impact, 
especially if you recently had an OS upgrade of some sort. Did you 
recently install any other pieces of software? Or, even uninstall 
anything on your computer? Things that in its basics does have nothing 
to do with the screen reader, might sometimes impact certain files that 
could make the screen reader go heywire. Even apps under WinEyes, have 
sometimes been seen to have impact on general computer activities.


Further, did you try running a good old cleanup on your computer? 
Running all security, and anti software you might have accessible? 
Things like certain cookies from the internet, though claimed not to 
affect the computer, still opens up for other software to behave 
unexpected. If you are on a traditional hard drive, a defragmentation 
might be worth a try. This last idea is backed by the fact that Tom 
pointed out, the app wants some info that apparently is not ready for 
it, when it expects to find it. a slow hard disk, due to heavy 
background activity or extensive fragmentation, could be one reason for 
the info not to be well-prepared in time. So even trying to make sure no 
other activity is going on in the background - like temporarily 
disconnecting from the internet, cold booting your computer and only 
open ONE piece of software before running the VirtualView app - it all 
could be one way to trace things.


Now, lastly, I am going to give you an advice, you might have wanted to 
see be the first one. Most WE apps, including the VV, base their 
activity on the GWToolkit app. So is especially the case, when comes to 
things like displaying dialogs. Might it happen to be, that something 
has gone crazy in your GWToolkit? Could you try reinstalling that one, 
and see if that fixes anything?


Before I am tuning out, what other apps do you have operative in your 
WinEyes? Just in case something there, would be the trouble-maker. Some 
kind of conflics.


OK, sorry I only left you with numerous, likely little helpful 
questions. But that was all I could come up with. Unfortunately for the 
case, the app is cryptized, and the developer is out of reach. Sure 
thing, it tells us which line in the app code to hunt for the 
troubleshooting, yet that is of little value, since we do not have 
access to either the code, nor the developer. At least, you now know, 
something must be on your system, since things work on others. I am not 
aware anyone else ever reported the issue you are facing. Really hope we 
can get it solved for you.


Tom, you think it could be, that his OCR component somehow got messed 
up, or broken? That the issue is not with the VV app, but rather with 
certain components that it bases its activity on?


On 10/31/2017 12:46 AM, Tom Kingston via Talk wrote:
> Hmm. You see these errors "all the time" Rod?
> I don't recall ever seeing such an error. Making sure the object 
> exists and pausing and trying again if it doesn't should prevent this 
> most of the time. But of course there are always exceptions to the 
> rule. We can only pause and try again so many times before assuming 
> we're not going to get what we want. Then we should notify the user 
> and bow out gracefully.
> If I remember right Aaron Smith wrote virtual View. And I'm sure he 
> incorporated proper error checking and handling.
> Virtual View works fine here in Thunderbird, which is where Larry was 
> running it.
> Larry. Given the name of the object (dlgResult) it is for a dialog. If 
> you're getting this 

Re: OT: Accessible .rar file extractor?

[David via Talk]

How about going for 7zip? It can handle a long range of file formats, is 
totally free of charge, and works just fine with screen readers.



Easiest place to grab it, is from the ninite.com webpage.



In general, if the info is of importance, I would strongly recommend 
unpacking it, and then packing it up in another format. Rar is known to 
be very, very vulnerable for damages. This has to do with the way things 
are packed. As a matter of fact, do we want to go technical about it, 
Rar actually packs, or cryptizes the information. A format like zip, 
only takes away all empty space, but for the most part leaves the info 
intact. That is why zip could be a good alternative for repacking your 
info. Zip is furthermore handled directly by any of the modern Windows 
systems.



just some thoughts.


> I have an old copy of WinRar but haven't used it in ages because I 
> seldom come across rar files. And I haven't installed it on my new 
> system yet. So I was just wondering if I should go grab the latest 
> version of that or if there's something better.
> Thanks much,
> Tom
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Re: Firefox Save Mode

[David via Talk]

And, if you press Enter on Continue?


This message often comes up, if you are trying to alter system settings, 
or when performing adjustments that will affect what Windows consider 
elementary processes. Usually, pressing the Continue, will force the 
action to be performed. Hence, may you try doing so, and come back 
should things not work out.



On 10/26/2017 10:22 AM, Nick Sarames via Talk wrote:
> I'm not sure if I am implimenting the work-around correctly, but I'm
> getting an error message saying something like:
>
> access denied - you will need to provide administrator permission to
> hange these settings.  Click continue to complete this operation.
>
> On 10/26/2017 2:08 AM, David via Talk wrote:
>> Debby,
>>
>> You are right. Shortly after my posting the workaround, yet another
>> version (56.01) came out from Mozilla, and swoopsy, there all
>> accessibility flew out the windows. The recent version of Firefox, in
>> very short and sharp words, is USELESS for WinEyes users.
>>
>>
>> I personally ended up going for the business version, as someone kindly
>> suggested. So far, have had positive experience with it, and find it
>> promissing to not having to fool around with new who-knows-why updates,
>> every six weeks or so.
>>
>>
>> If you seemingly have got Firefox up running in its safe mode, maybe I
>> have a tiny bit of helpful info for you. Instead of having to manually
>> remembering to start Firefox with the added Command line parameter, it
>> should be possible to have it do so by hitting a hotkey. Please note, I
>> have not tested this myself, so take it for whatever it might be worth
>> to you.
>>
>>
>> 1. Go to your Desktop.
>>
>> 2. Focus the Firefox Icon.
>>
>> 3. Hit the Shift-F10, alternatively, the App-key; and choose Properties.
>>
>> 4. Go down to the editbox where it asks for the program name, and insert
>> the -safe-mode parameter after the name, separated with a space. Please
>> note the dashes in the parameter.
>>
>> 5. While you are in this dialog, you might want to tab over to the
>> hotkey part, and define yourself a quick-key for loading Firefox. For
>> instance, I have defined Alt-Ctrl-F, which is quick and smooth way of
>> loading the software from anywhere.
>>
>> 6. Tab to OK, and hit Enter.
>>
>>
>> If everything goes well, you now should have Firefox start up in safe
>> mode, every time you hit your new hotkey.
>>
>>
>> Plese, may you be ware, in cases where you press Enter on a link in an
>> Email, Firefox will load directly. In such cases, if Firefox is not yet
>> loaded, it will load in normal mode. You hence might want to always keep
>> a Firefox window, loaded in Safe Mode, open on your screen. Even a blank
>> page should do.
>>
>>
>> Again, should you find the workarounds fail, perhaps it might be time to
>> give the business edition a spin.
>>
>>
>> For the records, I installed it directly on top of my version 56, and it
>> came up with all my history and favorites (bookmarks) ready to go.
>> Should you want to make sure, you might follow the instructions Rod
>> posted a few days ago, for backing up your bookmarks from firefox, prior
>> to running the installation. It all was done in less than five minutes
>> here, and it is good to have an otherwise stabil and nice browser back
>> in business.
>>
>>
>> I do take the opportunity to apologize to all, for any inconveniences my
>> initially posted workarounds might have caused. They were clearly
>> working at the moment, but Mozilla wanted it the other way around. Even
>> sighted people complain, and yet, the updates are forced on you, even
>> with the updating feature turned off in the Firefox settings. Nothing
>> more to do. And yet, so far the business eedition might be the reliable
>> way to go for the next few months. That is, if you don't want to switch
>> to another screen reader, hoping that Mozilla won't break all support
>> for assisistive technology altoghether in some version to come.
>>
>>
>> On 10/26/2017 5:18 AM, Debby Franson via Talk wrote:
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> I tried the Firefox safe mode, and it worked. I could browse the page
>>> as expected and I could get to the menus. I will need to start FF this
>>> way, because, when I closed the browser and launched it again, I was
>>> back to the ding with the silent treatment and no menus.
>>>
>>> Debby
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Any views or opinion

Re: Firefox Save Mode

[David via Talk]

Debby,

You are right. Shortly after my posting the workaround, yet another 
version (56.01) came out from Mozilla, and swoopsy, there all 
accessibility flew out the windows. The recent version of Firefox, in 
very short and sharp words, is USELESS for WinEyes users.


I personally ended up going for the business version, as someone kindly 
suggested. So far, have had positive experience with it, and find it 
promissing to not having to fool around with new who-knows-why updates, 
every six weeks or so.


If you seemingly have got Firefox up running in its safe mode, maybe I 
have a tiny bit of helpful info for you. Instead of having to manually 
remembering to start Firefox with the added Command line parameter, it 
should be possible to have it do so by hitting a hotkey. Please note, I 
have not tested this myself, so take it for whatever it might be worth 
to you.


1. Go to your Desktop.

2. Focus the Firefox Icon.

3. Hit the Shift-F10, alternatively, the App-key; and choose Properties.

4. Go down to the editbox where it asks for the program name, and insert 
the -safe-mode parameter after the name, separated with a space. Please 
note the dashes in the parameter.

5. While you are in this dialog, you might want to tab over to the 
hotkey part, and define yourself a quick-key for loading Firefox. For 
instance, I have defined Alt-Ctrl-F, which is quick and smooth way of 
loading the software from anywhere.

6. Tab to OK, and hit Enter.


If everything goes well, you now should have Firefox start up in safe 
mode, every time you hit your new hotkey.


Plese, may you be ware, in cases where you press Enter on a link in an 
Email, Firefox will load directly. In such cases, if Firefox is not yet 
loaded, it will load in normal mode. You hence might want to always keep 
a Firefox window, loaded in Safe Mode, open on your screen. Even a blank 
page should do.


Again, should you find the workarounds fail, perhaps it might be time to 
give the business edition a spin.


For the records, I installed it directly on top of my version 56, and it 
came up with all my history and favorites (bookmarks) ready to go. 
Should you want to make sure, you might follow the instructions Rod 
posted a few days ago, for backing up your bookmarks from firefox, prior 
to running the installation. It all was done in less than five minutes 
here, and it is good to have an otherwise stabil and nice browser back 
in business.


I do take the opportunity to apologize to all, for any inconveniences my 
initially posted workarounds might have caused. They were clearly 
working at the moment, but Mozilla wanted it the other way around. Even 
sighted people complain, and yet, the updates are forced on you, even 
with the updating feature turned off in the Firefox settings. Nothing 
more to do. And yet, so far the business eedition might be the reliable 
way to go for the next few months. That is, if you don't want to switch 
to another screen reader, hoping that Mozilla won't break all support 
for assisistive technology altoghether in some version to come.


On 10/26/2017 5:18 AM, Debby Franson via Talk wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I tried the Firefox safe mode, and it worked. I could browse the page 
> as expected and I could get to the menus. I will need to start FF this 
> way, because, when I closed the browser and launched it again, I was 
> back to the ding with the silent treatment and no menus.
>
> Debby
>
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>
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Re: help and info

[David via Talk]

As already indicated, the sertificate issue likely is due to your old 
version.


Even if you run 9.54, it could be the 9.54 that was released something 
like October last year. It was in the change of January/February this 
year, the sertificate issue came up. hence, if your upgrade file is 
older than this, it would stick with old sertificates, and you will keep 
getting the message all the time.


One workaround, you want to try out. With your 9.2 version installed, 
open the WE control panel, by pressing Ctrl-Backslash. Then go to Help. 
Here scroll down to the check for updates, and hit enter. It now will 
contact the servers of former GW, and see that you are entitled for an 
upgrade, generate it for you, and let you download and install it. This 
upgrade, will be with the new sertificate in place.


At least, this worked for me, on a reinstallation of WinEyes, something 
like two months ago. So it is worth to give it a try, hoping they have 
not yet closed the upgrrading servers. It might work, long as you have 
paid your upgrades to 9.54.


For a general info to all, what is a sertificate, on the computer?

See many of the more heavy software you are running on your computer - 
like the screen reader, the anti-virus, the text editor and so forth - 
have been sertified by Microsoft. That is, they have been approved, and 
recognized the right to perform their activity, which often will go 
really deep into the Windows system itself. Such sertificates might be 
outdated, or as in the case with WinEyes, it was told that it had been 
tampered with and compromised, hence they need to get a new one. In one 
way, you could compare the sertificates with the license plate on your 
car. The plate give your car the right to run on the roads of your 
country, for a given period. They cannot be transfered to other 
vihicles, and they might only be valid for a given period of time. The 
sertificates, gives the heavy software the right to run on your 
computer. In addition they apparently serves as a guarantee for a 
Microsoft approved piece of program.


HTH

On 10/17/2017 10:32 PM, Bernie Perella via Talk wrote:
> Hi,  I have a Toshiba Satellite 2 in 1 laptop running the latest version
> of Windows and WE 9.5.4.  Sometime ago, my system began to be more
> unstable and I was having a number of issues with WE. After researching
> the issue, I concluded that my computer had a virus or a piece of
> malfunctioning hardware.  After exhausting as many possible solutions
> that I knew, I finally did a Windows reset during which many apps,
> including WE were uninstalled.  After the reset, I tried using  the
> downloaded file for WE 9.2 but when I tried to eecute it, I got an error
> indicating that the certificate was blocked by an administrator.  I have
> an admin account on my system so I am not sure who the administrator
> would be.  In the meantime, I used Narrator only to discover that things
> hadn't improved very much.  I contacted the MS disabilities desk and
> after much discussion, they advised that I do a windows repair. they
> helped me through the process.  Before doing it, the MS rep attempted to
> install the We 9.2 and even though the same error occurred, WE 9.2  did
> install.  After the repair, when WE 9.2 starts, I get a hooking error
> and the error window isn't easy to close.  I remember that this hooking
> error issue was discussed but since I haven't yet restored my back
> emails, I am asking for help with it and with the certificate problem.
> Like many on here, I realize that the other company isn't helping very
> much so thought I would tap the knowledge base on this list.  Thanks in
> advance. BP
>
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Re: Need to Vent

[David via Talk]

Wasn't it so, that someone is selling a Sapi version of Eloquence? 
Wonder if the company was named ATGuys, or something like that.


OK, not exactly as responsive as the dedicated one, but the SAPI version 
used to be a bit more clear sounding. And I seem to remember you could 
buy a complete version of the Vocalizer voices as well, for not too much 
money.


OK, by the time you have bought all the voices, maybe you are facing a 
bill much the same as a transmission to Jaws, but you at least can 
continue with Window-Eyes. Besides, the voices you now would be owning, 
are SAPI versions, meaning you could use them under any software; Like 
NVDA.


Go to Jaws, and sure you will get a number of voices and a couple of 
synths to choose from - but they are all incorporated with your Jaws, 
and can only be used under that screen reader.


Unfortunately, you sooner or later will have to deal with the fact of 
WinEyes dropping. We are quite a number who understand your frustration, 
and from time to time feel somehow similar. And things doesn't get much 
better, when you are forced on Win10, whenever upgrading to new 
computers. OK, they say the world is moving ahead, but sometimes we all 
wish it had moved a bit slower. Smiles. At least inside the computer 
industry.


Though no real solution to your actual issue, I hope the above would 
point you in the direction of getting something up running.


On 10/17/2017 1:49 PM, Godiva Guerrero via Talk wrote:
> Compose Mail
> Gmail by Google
> Search
> Refresh
> Compose
> To (
> Add contacts
> )
> talk@lists.window-eyes.com
> Add Cc
>
> Add Bcc
> Subject
> Need to Vent
> Message
> Hello All, Forgive me but I need to vent.
> Many many years ago I switched from JAWS to Window Eyes for obvious
> reasons. About a month ago I purchased a new lap top and when I
> attempted to load my WE 9.00 on to it, I received a message saying
> 9.00 is not compatible with Windows 10. I was given the option to
> upgrade to 9.5.4.0 (no charge) Ha. I did, and a couple of days ago I
> attempted to change the synthesizer to Eliquence. Well at that point I
> was prompted with a message that I would need to contact AI Squared so
> I can purchase an authorization code for Eliquence. Well you guessed
> it, I was told when I called that this is no longer an option because
> as we keep getting told over and over again, Window Eyes is no longer
> supported. I am also fed up with their tech support telling me I can
> switch to JAWS.
> My computer needs are not technical or involved, I am an educator, I
> write, I research and write some more. I have never used another
> screen reader other than Window Eyes and JAWS. It just makes me very
> angry that we are basically being forced to use JAWS.
> On top of this I have had it with HIMS as well.
>
> Sorry for the rant, I just needed to vent with people who understand.
> Thanks for Reading
> Send
> Save
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Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility

[David via Talk]

Poof.


Sure seems like they do not want people to use their product any longer. 
Wonder if it even is worth to report anything to the team. If they did 
not bother to leave the choice for people to decide what version you 
want to run, will they bother to remedy accessibility issues?


Too bad. And it somehow tells me, WinEyes this time, the other screen 
readers next time. So guess Firefox is out for now, at least in updated 
version. And since they do not even honor their own setting, of telling 
Firefox NOT to update, you cannot even stay back-rolled. Strange, since 
one of the bugs that was mentioned in the release notes, told you to 
roll back. Wonder how they figure you are going to do so, when Firefox 
stubbonly insists on updating - the very next time you start it.


It all seem to me, like a programming project, that more or less have 
gone totally out of scope, and where the team want to pose their ideas 
on everyone else. Forget about whether it worsk or not, the engineers 
have their fun in pushing updates out the door every second day or so. 
And the user? Can just sit there and give up. Yep. That is what I am 
going to, unless anyone have figured a way to make Firefox NOT update, 
until I personally decide to let it, and actually tell it to go do its job.


The bad thing is, that neither of the other browsers give me the 
functionality and security i am intending. Loved the NoScript add-on 
under Firefox, which often could make a website more accessible.


True, Jaws. If you like a browsing experience similar to that of WinEyes 
8 and earlier. Last time I tried Jaws on Ebay, it was literally so slow, 
that I could swallow half a sandwich, from I pressed a navigational key, 
till Eloquence decided he was going to do anything but stay in bed for 
the day. NVDA is a little bit better. But none of them operates EBay the 
same quickly and smoothly as WinEyes. And EBay is but one example.


Well, enough complaining. It won't help anyway. Smiles.


Thanks everyone for your feedback on my shortlived workaround. Hey, does 
anyone know if someone from the Mozilla team is on this list? Perhaps 
they got to know we had fixed a workaround, and that is why they sprayed 
out that newest update, blocking all WinEyes activity on modern 
computers, in their software. - Ha Ha Ha. Just kidding.


Off to next project in keeping WinEyes going. Smiles.


On 10/9/2017 8:59 PM, Rod Hutton via Talk wrote:
> Hi Lloyd,
>
> I can confirm your findings with the latest Firefox.
> Funny, though.
> I had been running the 32-bit version, which opened automatically from my 
> desktop icon.
> Now, however, I seem to be running the 64-bit version.
> The plot thickens, indeed! Smile
>
> Best,
>
> Rod
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
> On Behalf Of Lloyd Rasmussen via Talk
> Sent: October 9, 2017 1:29 PM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
> Cc: Lloyd Rasmussen <l...@sprynet.com>
> Subject: Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility
>
> Maybe that's what happened, but I'm not sure of that.
> A new 56.01 update was available when I checked this morning. I am going to
> reboot and try again, but my first finding with this new minor update is
> that browse mode is no longer available anywhere in Firefox. You can still
> read the menus and can tab to items, but are not even offered the
> possibility of opening browse mode with Window-Eyes. The plot thickens!
>
>
>
> Lloyd Rasmussen, Kensington, MD
> http://lras.home.sprynet.com
> -Original Message-
> From: Rod Hutton via Talk
> Sent: Monday, October 09, 2017 1:24 PM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Rod Hutton
> Subject: RE: Latest Firefox, and accessibility
>
> Hi David,
>
> I can certainly confirm that your workaround, namely, to open another tab,
> wherein Window-Eyes works as before.
> My guess is that, on startup, the set file is not associated with the
> browser window, but, rather, with the Firefox application window.
> I've run into this problem before, when, all of a sudden, focus got lost and
> stuck in the application window, since this is all I heard when I read the
> title bar.
> This hadn't happened for some time, and we'll see what happens now that I
> can begin testing it again.
> Thanks so much for your effort in diagnosing this problem, and we'll report
> back our experiences.
>
> All the best,
>
> Rod
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk
> [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf
> Of David via Talk
> Sent: October 8, 2017 8:31 AM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>; Lloyd
> Rasmussen <l...@sprynet.com>
> Cc: David <trailerda...@hotmail.com>
> Subject

Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility

[David via Talk]

ys, and no output when you use the Tab or shift-Tab key. 
> You can
> read the menus. You can read anything you can tab to while browse mode is
> turned off. Sometimes Firefox.set doesn't seem to load, but even when it
> does, the situation remains the same.
> I'm running Windows 7 64-bit, but the 32-bit version of Firefox is what
> wants to run. I believe I tried disabling add-ons also, with no effect. I
> get most of the same results on a different computer running Windows 10.
> And even if we didn't have trouble with Firefox version 56, we are pretty
> much guaranteed to have trouble with FF 57 which comes out next month.
> I like Firefox, but if I'm going to continue to use it, it will have 
> to be
> with NVDA, JAWS or Narrator for Windows 10.
> Everyone should read the latest blog from Marco Zehe to understand 
> more of
> what is going on:
> https://www.marcozehe.de/2017/09/29/rethinking-web-accessibility-on-windows/
>
>
>
>
> Lloyd Rasmussen, Kensington, MD
> http://lras.home.sprynet.com
> -Original Message- From: David via Talk
> Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2017 8:14 AM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: David
> Subject: Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility
>
> Pure guessing here.
>
>
> When the Firefox window comes up, are you able to access the menus? If
> so, Go to Help, and scroll down to
>
>     Start with add-ons disabled,
>
> and press Enter. This should let Firefox start in its own safe-mode;
> which btw does have nothing to do with Windows safe-mode. You can read
> more here:
>
> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/troubleshoot-firefox-issues-using-safe-mode
>  
>
>
>
> Alternatively, they say you should be able to do it via the start menu.
>
>    1. Press Win-R, and type:
>
>     Firefox -safe-mode
>
> (please notice the dashes).
>
> 2. Press Enter, and the Firefox should open in a safe-mode window.
>
> I have not tested either of these aproaches, so take it for what a
> search on the net is worth.
>
>
> I further take it, that you have done the two obvious things:
>
> 1. Make sure Browse mode is turned ON, by pressing Ctrl-Shift-A. I am
> ready to presume, that you will have a message spoken to you, saying:
>
>     Browse Mode Is Not Available.
>
> 2. Check that the correct set file is loaded. Press Insert-L, and it
> should say
>
>     Firefox.set.
>
>
> To me, it could seem like you have some kind of a message window that
> opens when you open Firefox, and which get the thing stucked. if you
> press Ctrl-Shift-T, does it tell you a website, or does it say
> About:Blank, and then Firefox? Alternatively, does it say something like:
>
>     Firefox Message?
>
> If the latter, there is a message on the screen, which you might have
> varying luck in reading. You could try hitting the Ctrl-Shift-W twice,
> to have WinEyes do its most aggressive reading of the full window.
>
>
>
> Even loading NVDA, while you are on the Firefox window, with WinEyes
> still running. What does NVDA do? Is it able to navigate anything, or
> even read any messages to you, that WinEyes was unable to pick up?
>
>
> Lastly, do you have two eyes there? Do they see anything on the screen?
> Like if you load a website, are they able to read the contents? Somwhere
> in the WinEyes control panel - and forgive me for not remembering
> exactly where - I do hold there is a setting for turning on a small
> window, indicating to a sighted person what exactly you are seeing with
> the screen reader. Have never used the feature myself, so not sure how
> helpful it would be. But it might be useful enough to determining if the
> screen reader has gone for a hike in the cyber mountains, due to some
> Firefox food that Eloquence disagrees in. Once you have chased the
> reason for your issue, you might want to hold a KitCat up in front of
> the screen reader, and see if Eloquence could please get into a better
> mood. Smiles.
>
>
> For now, these are my best guesses. Perhaps your reporting back any
> results of the suggestions might help others in guiding you further.
> Since seemingly some users are having issues and others not, it seems
> something in the newer versions of Firefox might be triggering certain
> setups. This could be worth reporting to the Mozilla team, in hope they
> might have some logs that could tell what changes in settings and
> behavior probably causing the issues. But prior to doing any reporting
> to them, it might be worth an attempt in tracing the exact issue.
>
>
> Of course, many might argue that NVDA and Jaws do not have any issues.
> Be as it might. Apparently there must be something that causes WinEyes
> to have its hickups, on certain 

Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility

[David via Talk]

Pure guessing here.


When the Firefox window comes up, are you able to access the menus? If 
so, Go to Help, and scroll down to

     Start with add-ons disabled,

and press Enter. This should let Firefox start in its own safe-mode; 
which btw does have nothing to do with Windows safe-mode. You can read 
more here:

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/troubleshoot-firefox-issues-using-safe-mode


Alternatively, they say you should be able to do it via the start menu.

    1. Press Win-R, and type:

     Firefox -safe-mode

(please notice the dashes).

2. Press Enter, and the Firefox should open in a safe-mode window.

I have not tested either of these aproaches, so take it for what a 
search on the net is worth.


I further take it, that you have done the two obvious things:

1. Make sure Browse mode is turned ON, by pressing Ctrl-Shift-A. I am 
ready to presume, that you will have a message spoken to you, saying:

     Browse Mode Is Not Available.

2. Check that the correct set file is loaded. Press Insert-L, and it 
should say

     Firefox.set.


To me, it could seem like you have some kind of a message window that 
opens when you open Firefox, and which get the thing stucked. if you 
press Ctrl-Shift-T, does it tell you a website, or does it say 
About:Blank, and then Firefox? Alternatively, does it say something like:

     Firefox Message?

If the latter, there is a message on the screen, which you might have 
varying luck in reading. You could try hitting the Ctrl-Shift-W twice, 
to have WinEyes do its most aggressive reading of the full window.



Even loading NVDA, while you are on the Firefox window, with WinEyes 
still running. What does NVDA do? Is it able to navigate anything, or 
even read any messages to you, that WinEyes was unable to pick up?


Lastly, do you have two eyes there? Do they see anything on the screen? 
Like if you load a website, are they able to read the contents? Somwhere 
in the WinEyes control panel - and forgive me for not remembering 
exactly where - I do hold there is a setting for turning on a small 
window, indicating to a sighted person what exactly you are seeing with 
the screen reader. Have never used the feature myself, so not sure how 
helpful it would be. But it might be useful enough to determining if the 
screen reader has gone for a hike in the cyber mountains, due to some 
Firefox food that Eloquence disagrees in. Once you have chased the 
reason for your issue, you might want to hold a KitCat up in front of 
the screen reader, and see if Eloquence could please get into a better 
mood. Smiles.


For now, these are my best guesses. Perhaps your reporting back any 
results of the suggestions might help others in guiding you further. 
Since seemingly some users are having issues and others not, it seems 
something in the newer versions of Firefox might be triggering certain 
setups. This could be worth reporting to the Mozilla team, in hope they 
might have some logs that could tell what changes in settings and 
behavior probably causing the issues. But prior to doing any reporting 
to them, it might be worth an attempt in tracing the exact issue.


Of course, many might argue that NVDA and Jaws do not have any issues. 
Be as it might. Apparently there must be something that causes WinEyes 
to have its hickups, on certain systems. Could we trace the health 
issue, we might be able to remedy the WinEyes disease. Smiles.


Just for the fun of it, in Firefox under Help, try pressing Enter on the 
item that says:

     Health Report.

What do you get there? Should give you some technical information. 
Likely nothing important in this case, but just to see if it at all 
could tell anything for further tracing. It at least would report if any 
of your Add-ons have caused Firefox to get an aching toe. In such a 
case, offering it a donut and a cup of coffee for free, might cheer it 
up a bit. Smiles.


Sorry for not being of all that much help, and hope you don't mind my 
sense of humor on an early Saturday morning.


On 10/7/2017 1:04 PM, bj colt via Talk wrote:
> Hi David,
>
> I followed your instructions but got the same ding noise I get when 
> firefox upgrqades to the latest version. I am running the 32 bit version.
>
> I pressed alt d, then f6. The same ding. Like being in an edit box 
> that is stuck there. All I hear is ding. I have uninstalled firefox 3 
> times since last night and each time firefox has upgraded. Even though 
> I have it set not to upgrade.
>
> It is strange how some people aring this phenomenon and others aren't. 
> My friend is running firefox, same version as I am. windows 7. pentium 
> processor, 500 ghz hard drive. 8 gig ram. All very wierd.
>
> It does seem like a focus problem but what and why?
>
> Live long and prosper, John
>
> -Original Message- From: David via Talk
> Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2017 11:02 AM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List ; W

Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility

[David via Talk]

Forgot to say, I am still running Windows7 pro 64bit, in case the OS 
might be the bottleneck.


On 10/7/2017 12:01 PM, David via Talk wrote:
> I do not want to start a new lengthy arguing over accessibility issues.
> Yet, a few days ago, we had a discussion running here, as to the latest
> version of Firefox - 56 - which some users had experienced issues with.
>
> I did not have any intention in running into accessibility issues, and
> hence told my Firefox never to update. It is done under tools, Options,
> Advanced, and choose the update tab. Nevertheless, this morning when
> starting my Firefox, it still updated itself. I got the message on the
> screen, that the update was taking place, and though I could say a few
> things about a setting in the Firefox options, which apparently is
> nothing but useless - I had no choice but to let the update complete
> itself. My reasoning was that first it insisted on upgrading, I could
> always roll it back afterwards.
>
> When the upgrading was finished, I checked under Tools, Help, About -
> and the current installation says
>
>       Firefox 56.0, 32bit.
>
> I now have used it for a couple of hours, browsing around, and do see no
> trouble with this version of Firefox, along with the latest (and last)
> version of WinEyes, that is, version 9.5.4.
>
> I do recall there has been a few comments about the 64bit version of
> Firefox from the past. And hence i was wondering if the users who told
> us not to update to the latest Firefox, due to their accessibility
> issues, would happen to be running the 64bit version.
>
> As an alternative, in attempting to see a reason for some experiencing
> trouble in latest version, I do wonder if there could be a focusing
> issue. Would any of you, who initially reported the loss of
> accessibility in Firefox 56, maybe want to try the following.
> 1. Open Firefox, and go to any website.
> 2. Press Alt-D, as in Delta.
> 3. Press F6.
> 4. Try navigating the website.
> Are you still unable to perform any action on the page? If so, check
> under Help/About,and see if you are running 64- or 32bit version. Please
> note, a 32bit software can be run perfectly well on a 64bit machine, but
> you cannot run a 64bit software on a 32bit computer. Most computers now
> aday, are 64bit machines, and yet, often you are encouraged to run the
> 32bit software, due to the 64bit technology being more vulnerable for
> technical issues.
>
> This is no attempt in advicing anyone, in their choice of browser or
> version. I am just curious why some have reported their systems facing
> issues, whereas my system had none. Could it even be there was something
> going wrong in your updating process? Or, could it be due to some of the
> add-ons you have installed under Firefox, and which no longer are
> up-to-date, due to the new add-on policy of the Mozilla group? Try
> starting your Firefox with all Add-ons disabled, and see if that solves
> any issues.
>
> Really, it would be bad, should a number of users ditch an otherwise
> good browser, or abstain from updating, due to some misunderstood
> accessibility issues. That's why, I decided to report my findings,
> hoping to hear from others who could shed further light on what possibly
> could cause issues for some. Perhaps we even could help them solve their
> issues, and have them back up running the Firefox browser again; even
> with last version of WinEyes.
> ___
> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author 
> and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>
> For membership options, visit 
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/trailerdavid%40hotmail.com.
> For subscription options, visit 
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
> List archives can be found at 
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com

___
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author 
and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

For membership options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com.
For subscription options, visit 
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List archives can be found at 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com

Latest Firefox, and accessibility

[David via Talk]

I do not want to start a new lengthy arguing over accessibility issues. 
Yet, a few days ago, we had a discussion running here, as to the latest 
version of Firefox - 56 - which some users had experienced issues with.

I did not have any intention in running into accessibility issues, and 
hence told my Firefox never to update. It is done under tools, Options, 
Advanced, and choose the update tab. Nevertheless, this morning when 
starting my Firefox, it still updated itself. I got the message on the 
screen, that the update was taking place, and though I could say a few 
things about a setting in the Firefox options, which apparently is 
nothing but useless - I had no choice but to let the update complete 
itself. My reasoning was that first it insisted on upgrading, I could 
always roll it back afterwards.

When the upgrading was finished, I checked under Tools, Help, About - 
and the current installation says

     Firefox 56.0, 32bit.

I now have used it for a couple of hours, browsing around, and do see no 
trouble with this version of Firefox, along with the latest (and last) 
version of WinEyes, that is, version 9.5.4.

I do recall there has been a few comments about the 64bit version of 
Firefox from the past. And hence i was wondering if the users who told 
us not to update to the latest Firefox, due to their accessibility 
issues, would happen to be running the 64bit version.

As an alternative, in attempting to see a reason for some experiencing 
trouble in latest version, I do wonder if there could be a focusing 
issue. Would any of you, who initially reported the loss of 
accessibility in Firefox 56, maybe want to try the following.
1. Open Firefox, and go to any website.
2. Press Alt-D, as in Delta.
3. Press F6.
4. Try navigating the website.
Are you still unable to perform any action on the page? If so, check 
under Help/About,and see if you are running 64- or 32bit version. Please 
note, a 32bit software can be run perfectly well on a 64bit machine, but 
you cannot run a 64bit software on a 32bit computer. Most computers now 
aday, are 64bit machines, and yet, often you are encouraged to run the 
32bit software, due to the 64bit technology being more vulnerable for 
technical issues.

This is no attempt in advicing anyone, in their choice of browser or 
version. I am just curious why some have reported their systems facing 
issues, whereas my system had none. Could it even be there was something 
going wrong in your updating process? Or, could it be due to some of the 
add-ons you have installed under Firefox, and which no longer are 
up-to-date, due to the new add-on policy of the Mozilla group? Try 
starting your Firefox with all Add-ons disabled, and see if that solves 
any issues.

Really, it would be bad, should a number of users ditch an otherwise 
good browser, or abstain from updating, due to some misunderstood 
accessibility issues. That's why, I decided to report my findings, 
hoping to hear from others who could shed further light on what possibly 
could cause issues for some. Perhaps we even could help them solve their 
issues, and have them back up running the Firefox browser again; even 
with last version of WinEyes.
___
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author 
and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

For membership options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com.
For subscription options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
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Re: Chrome, was: Firefox Updated and Unable to Navigate

[David via Talk]

Only have tried Chrome as an alternative, in a few cases, for my 
browsing. Might be OK, though I am not fully confident with its behavior.

Recently, I have tested it for playing the online version of our local 
radio over here. It plays OK in Internet Explorer. But when the same 
website is loaded in Chrome, I experience a couple of issues.

First of all, the arrow keys - which are used for raising and lowering 
the volume of the playback, are EXTREMELY slow in response. You press 
the arrow-key, and it takes something like 5seconds or more, before the 
volume actually is adjusted. In Internet Explorer, the volume adjustment 
is applied imediately.

Alt-tabbing away from the Chrome window, and then back into it, focus is 
more often than desireable lost. I still have to figure how to get back 
to focus. When such loss of focus occurs in other browsers, I have 
learned to hit Alt-D, to get to the address bar, and then F6, to get 
back to the contents window. Just about always works. But in Chrome, 
Alt-d takes me to the address bar, yet F6 does seem to have no effect. I 
tried to hit the tab-key, hoping it would take me anywhere, but it did 
seem to have no effect, though I gave it several seconds.

As the radio station plays, the current song is being displayed and 
updated, a given spot on the page. In both Internet Explorer and 
Firefox, this section of the page is continiously being updated, and 
WinEyes works just fine in reading it. With Chrome, the lines are stuck, 
where they are when the page is initially loaded. 15 minutes later, it 
still shows the song that played back when the page was opened, and no 
updates takes place.

Attempting to close the Chrome window, when the radio plays, often 
results in nothing happening. Have to open Task Manager, and manually 
kill Chrome to stop the playback.

It might be my computer, and it could be the technology used from the 
radio station. But it works in the two other browsers, on this very 
computer, so have a feeling there must be something about Chrome. Could 
be some setup issues, yet I do not know where to look for a fix.

If this behavior is general for Chrome, I would have kept my hands off. 
For the little browsing activity I have tested Chrome with, it seems OK 
enough. But for the radio playing, it is close to useless.

In a few cases, when I have had trouble with certain info not showing up 
on given websites, under either IExplorer or Firefox, I have given 
Chrome a go.  Hope was that it would show things the other browsers were 
unable to process. A known issue, where some pages work better under one 
browser than the other. Still, till date, I have never seen any of these 
pages behave better under Chrome. Allright, my experience, with my set 
of browsing. I do notice others reporting it to work fine, so won't be 
able to tell why I am seeing these issues. Just wanted to let you know 
my findings, that you at least might be prepared.



On 10/3/2017 3:02 PM, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:
 > Tom,
 >
 > Let me add my voice to John's.  I've also used Chrome some and found 
it to
 > work all right.  I have not gotten comfortable with using the 
equivalent of
 > "Favorites," but suspect that is my lack of experience.  I had one 
case on a
 > slow computer where a website was not useable due to very, very slow
 > response with Internet Explorer, and when I switched to Chrome that same
 > website worked fine.  I think it is definitely worth a look if you 
have not
 > done so yet.  The interface is very different, though, so don't let 
that put
 > you off.
 >
 > Best regards,
 >
 > Steve Jacobson
 >
 > -Original Message-
 > From: Talk
 > [mailto:talk-bounces+steve.jacobson=visi@lists.window-eyes.com] On
 > Behalf Of john schwery via Talk
 > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 3:47 AM
 > To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
 > Cc: john schwery 
 > Subject: Re: Chrome, was: Firefox Updated and Unable to Navigate
 >
 > Tom, Chrome works ok.
 >
 > At 11:50 PM 10/2/2017, you wrote:
 >> Has anyone given Chrome a serious look? I've never even tried it. So
 >> I'm curious as to whether I should even bother.
 >>
 >> Thanks,
 >> Tom
 >>
 >> ___
 >> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
 >> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
 >>
 >> For membership options, visit
 >> 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/jschwery%40ce
 > nturylink.net.
 >> For subscription options, visit
 >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
 >> List archives can be found at
 >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
 >
 >  John
 >
 > ___
 > Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the 
author
 > and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
 >
 > For membership 

Re: firefox 55.03

[David via Talk]

Funny thing, this discussion came up this morning. Last night, I was 
trying to smoothen certain issues with an add-on, under Firefox 55.

I did a number of searches on the net, hoping to trace some kind of a 
solution for my issue. Yet what I found, was not exactly uplifting.

Developing team of Mozilla, has decided to re-engineer their core 
structure. it seems they started the process, in version 55. It all will 
be fully implemented in version 57, this fall.

The redo will result in loads of add-ons no longer working, and for some 
it might mean the very death of the feature. Not all add-ons can be 
updated to run under the new structure, due to their construction and 
activity. For the blind user, we have already seen the WebVisum go, due 
to this very fact. But all my reading last night, told me there are 
numerous other features of Firefox that now will be burried 12 feet below.

If you go to the Add-on manager of your Firefox, and you scroll down the 
list of your currently running add-ons, you will notice a certain 
marking on several of them. If your add-on says
     legacy,
it means that it is not going to run under version 57+, unless the 
developer will be able and willing to update it. Pretty much ALL my 
installation, said Legacy.

Mozilla claims this is safety. Add-ons have been one of the big benefits 
of the Firefox browser, and as with WebVisum, even been a way for users 
to taylor their browser experience, even into increased accessibility. 
With the new core structure of the browser, not only will old add-ons 
stop working over-night, but you might never see any add-ons take over 
the functionality, due to the core blocking for certain activities that 
the add-on relied on.

OK then, NVDA and Jaws managed to update their coding right now. But for 
how long? As a matter of fact, a few weeks ago, I saw a discussion on 
the Android list, complaining that Firefox was experiencing certain 
issues in accessibility on that platform. Since a screen reader is 
depending all its activity on accessing rather deeply into the 
underlaying software, and Mozilla takes big steps in blocking deep 
access into their structure, somehow there is kind of a piece of math 
that does force my calculator to go negative in its result.

Now all of this happens for the Firefox browser. But what about the 
Thunderbird mail client? Is that the next to have "security" updates, 
that makes it so secure that it no longer can be recconed as useful? 
Don't want to make any painting on the wall, but simply just wonder if 
we once more are seeing things like general accessibility in the daily 
living, dropping.

I still remember the 80's when we as blind, experienced loads of 
accessibility issues. Through the 90's, we saw several new technologies 
hitting the market, that one way or the other, increased our chances in 
living independent lifes. You might agree, that in the earlier 2000's, 
we did see a time when we could do pretty well. We had the chance of 
benefitting from accessible software on the computer, got talking 
cellphones, and even our microwaves started babbling away. But for the 
last decade or so, accessibility has steadily dropped.

On the computer, it is really hard to find a top-rated anti-virus, a 
low-cost office solution, and soon enough a safe web browser - which is 
close in being fully accessible. One by one, we have seen them fall. If 
for nothing else, the graphical interface, the lack of keyboard 
functionality, and now the partial dropping of add-on support. Even 
finding a good and accessible computer, starts becoming a challenge, due 
to the drop of certain keys, or the F-keys being no longer working 
according to established standards.

OK, we as blind, due complain; and the developers can close their ears. 
What really puzzles me though, is that the drop of add-on functionality, 
for instance, is something that generates loads of complains from the 
genral user as well. It proved to be, in my search last night, that this 
has been discussed for a while on the Mozilla forums. And yet, the 
Mozilla team seems determined to disregard all user feedback. As such, 
they likely won't bother a dewdrop, should you complain the loss of 
accessibility. Such lack of compliance with end-user wantings, have 
killed many a product in the market earlier. And as for those who rely 
on accessibility, I am wondering if it is time to look around for 
alternatives. To me, it seems Win-Eyes was but the first screen reader 
to loose out. Eventually, jaws and NVDA might have to realize Firefox is 
no longer the priority.

Sometimes a product turns so secure, that noone can use it, and it often 
means either it will have to be reversed, or it will eventually see its 
death. For some funny reasons, I am reminded about the joke of the 
Danish comedian Victor Borge, many years ago, when he told about his 
uncle inventing a bugglar alarm - which was so effecient, that it got 
stolen from him. :)

BTW, anyone 

Re: Thunderbird

[David via Talk]

Or, maybe we should all learn to use the search engines on the net. A 
quick search for a term like:

     Setting up thunderbird to open in the inbox

, on Yahoo, gave me a number of results. Among them, this article, which 
might be what you are looking for:

http://kb.mozillazine.org/Show_Inbox_when_starting_Thunderbird


If not, try some of the other articles here:

https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?p=setting+up+thunderbird+to+open+in+the+inbox=UTF-8=mozilla=yhs-001


Hope any of this helps you out.


On 9/16/2017 5:26 PM, David via Talk wrote:
> Honestly, it's been a few years since I set up my Thunderbird. So this
> will be a total guesswork. But for nothing else, make sure the settings
> in the View menu are correct.
>
>
> Under Toolbars, make sure only the Menu bar, and Status bar are checked.
> All other features should be unchecked.
>
>
> Under Layout, you might want to go for the Classic view.
>
>
> Under Folders, try set it to Unified.
>
>
> Under Today's Pane, make sure it is set to None.
>
>
> Since you have Thunderbird working on your machine, it might be a
> workaround for you to make a copy of your Thunderbird folder, under
> %Appdata% in Windows Explorer. Make sure to delete your mail folders
> from the copy.
>
> Then, let your friend replace her Thunderbird folder, with your copy.
> This should ensure she will get the same setup as you. She might have to
> enter her account details anew.
>
>
> Should you need further steps on the folder copying, let me know, and I
> might be able to pull together some step-by-step instructions on the matter.
>
>
> On 9/16/2017 1:18 PM, Carol and Roger via Talk wrote:
>> Thanks. I did not see that option and went throught both accounts and
>> options.  The only thing there, which we had already unchecked, was
>> the open the Mozilla start page.  Otherwise, whenever I open my
>> settings, I usually end up wherever I closed TB.  Hers always opens
>> with that screen with all of the options. I will have her try turning
>> off browse mode and see if that helps any.  Thanks for the ideas.
>>
>> Carol
>>
>>
>> On 9/16/2017 3:52 AM, Pamela Dominguez via Talk wrote:
>>> There isn't a way to set it up so that it opens in the inbox?  I know
>>> there is in all the other email programs I have used: outlook
>>> express, windows mail and windows live mail.  Pam.
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: brice Mijares via Talk
>>> Sent: Friday, September 15, 2017 7:33 PM
>>> To: Carol and Roger via Talk
>>> Cc: brice Mijares
>>> Subject: Re: Thunderbird
>>>
>>> I usually hit shift tav once and I'm in the inbox. It all depend where
>>> your at when you close TB.
>>> ___
>>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
>>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>>
>>> For membership options, visit
>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/geodom%40optonline.net.
>>> For subscription options, visit
>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
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>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>>>
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>>> http://www.avg.com
>>>
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>>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>>
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>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>
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> Any views or opinions presented in this emai

Re: Thunderbird

[David via Talk]

Honestly, it's been a few years since I set up my Thunderbird. So this 
will be a total guesswork. But for nothing else, make sure the settings 
in the View menu are correct.


Under Toolbars, make sure only the Menu bar, and Status bar are checked. 
All other features should be unchecked.


Under Layout, you might want to go for the Classic view.


Under Folders, try set it to Unified.


Under Today's Pane, make sure it is set to None.


Since you have Thunderbird working on your machine, it might be a 
workaround for you to make a copy of your Thunderbird folder, under 
%Appdata% in Windows Explorer. Make sure to delete your mail folders 
from the copy.

Then, let your friend replace her Thunderbird folder, with your copy. 
This should ensure she will get the same setup as you. She might have to 
enter her account details anew.


Should you need further steps on the folder copying, let me know, and I 
might be able to pull together some step-by-step instructions on the matter.


On 9/16/2017 1:18 PM, Carol and Roger via Talk wrote:
> Thanks. I did not see that option and went throught both accounts and 
> options.  The only thing there, which we had already unchecked, was 
> the open the Mozilla start page.  Otherwise, whenever I open my 
> settings, I usually end up wherever I closed TB.  Hers always opens 
> with that screen with all of the options. I will have her try turning 
> off browse mode and see if that helps any.  Thanks for the ideas.
>
> Carol
>
>
> On 9/16/2017 3:52 AM, Pamela Dominguez via Talk wrote:
>> There isn't a way to set it up so that it opens in the inbox?  I know 
>> there is in all the other email programs I have used: outlook 
>> express, windows mail and windows live mail.  Pam.
>>
>> -Original Message- From: brice Mijares via Talk
>> Sent: Friday, September 15, 2017 7:33 PM
>> To: Carol and Roger via Talk
>> Cc: brice Mijares
>> Subject: Re: Thunderbird
>>
>> I usually hit shift tav once and I'm in the inbox. It all depend where
>> your at when you close TB.
>> ___
>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the 
>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>
>> For membership options, visit 
>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/geodom%40optonline.net.
>> For subscription options, visit 
>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>> List archives can be found at 
>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> http://www.avg.com
>>
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>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>
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>>
>
> ___
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>
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Re: Apps that can be uninstalled

[David via Talk]

Use the AppGet feature.


1. Press Win-G, and wait for the ascending tones to stop. The AppGet 
dialog will open.

2. Make sure you are set to show all apps, by hitting Alt-V, and 
choosing All Apps.

3. Press Ctrl-F, and type

     diag

followed by Enter.

4. Wait for the results to come up.

5. Arrow down to WE Diag, and hit Enter.

6. When the package is displayed, hit Enter once again, and the package 
will be installed.

7. Escape your way out of the AppGet dialog.


Or, you can go to:

     http://www.gwmicro.com/apps/WEDiag.


HTH,


On 9/15/2017 12:23 PM, gosselin_louis via Talk wrote:
> Oh, darn!
> I did remove the app for We Diagnostics, but Now I'm trying to bring it
> back, and can't find it.  How do I bring it back? Does removing it delete
> the package as well?
>
> Louis Gosselin
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk
> [mailto:talk-bounces+gosselin_louis=myfairpoint@lists.window-eyes.com]
> On Behalf Of Jeff Weiss via Talk
> Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 11:14 AM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
> Cc: Jeff Weiss <jeff-we...@sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: Apps that can be uninstalled
>
> This is right as far as it goes, but remember that the WE diagnostics app
> also can do two other things:
> refresh the accessability libraries
> repair the windows 10 driver
>
> So, there might be a reason to keep this app for a while longer.
> I do agree that window-eyes update can go.
>
> Jeff Weiss
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: gosselin_louis via Talk
> Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 6:51 AM
> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' ; 'WE English Mailinglist'
> Cc: gosselin_louis
> Subject: RE: Apps that can be uninstalled
>
> Dave!
>
> Thanks for this.  I never gave the Win-Eyes Apps a thought.  And you're
> right!
>
> Louis
>
> -----Original Message-
> From: Talk
> [mailto:talk-bounces+gosselin_louis=myfairpoint@lists.window-eyes.com]
> On Behalf Of David via Talk
> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 9:06 PM
> To: WE English Mailinglist <t...@window-eyes.com>
> Cc: David <trailerda...@hotmail.com>
> Subject: Apps that can be uninstalled
>
> Just wanted to remind you, that not all apps developed for WinEyes, are
> beneficial any longer.
>
> Though an app in general should simply just close down, once it cannot
> perform its activity, you might eventually see some apps that could
> cause you issues. I recently went through my installed apps, and among
> them found a couple of apps that clearly never will be of any more usage.
>
> WE Diag.
> This app was designed to generate a diagnostic report, that could be
> sent to the GW team, for troubleshooting.
> Since there is no more team to receive the diagnostics report, there
> will never be any usage of generating such a report.
> The app further does consume at least one hotkey, which rather could be
> used for your convenience with other apps and features, or third-party
> software on your computer.
>
> WEUpdate.
> This app will check for updates to Window-Eyes itself.
> There NEVER will be any updates, or new versions. The app will attempt
> to connect to the GW servers, every time you start your screen reader,
> and who knows how much more frequently. It will generally not pose any
> problem to you, since it simply will receive the message from the
> server, that no new updates are to be found, and then close itself down.
> Yet, as the servers of WinEyes might not stay up forever, who knows what
> error messages it will generate in the coming.
> The app is to be viewed as useless, obsolete, and might as well be removed.
>
> Though apps might not take up any extensive space on your computer, and
> might pose no current trouble in running, I do not generally suggest you
> let useless or obsolete software run on your system. It is not likely
> that any of the WE apps might pose real risks in lingering on your
> computer, but really, why leave them there - all the time they never
> will kick into any benefit for you. Even, someone might eventually hack
> the code, and misuse the door you leave open.
>
> How To Uninstall.
> Open the WE Control Panel, by hitting Ctrl-Backslash.
> Press Alt-A, to go to the App menu.
> Choose App Management.
> Scroll down to Add/Remove Apps, and hit Enter.
> In the list of installed apps, scroll to the unwanted app, and then tab
> over to Remove, and hit Enter.
> Shift-Tab back to the list, and repeat the remove process for any app
> you do not want any longer.
> First you are at it, make sure to get rid of apps that are known to be
> troublesome, like the Jaws Emulating app.
> When done, exit, and make a copy of your working WinEyes Profile, s

Apps that can be uninstalled

[David via Talk]

Just wanted to remind you, that not all apps developed for WinEyes, are 
beneficial any longer.

Though an app in general should simply just close down, once it cannot 
perform its activity, you might eventually see some apps that could 
cause you issues. I recently went through my installed apps, and among 
them found a couple of apps that clearly never will be of any more usage.

WE Diag.
This app was designed to generate a diagnostic report, that could be 
sent to the GW team, for troubleshooting.
Since there is no more team to receive the diagnostics report, there 
will never be any usage of generating such a report.
The app further does consume at least one hotkey, which rather could be 
used for your convenience with other apps and features, or third-party 
software on your computer.

WEUpdate.
This app will check for updates to Window-Eyes itself.
There NEVER will be any updates, or new versions. The app will attempt 
to connect to the GW servers, every time you start your screen reader, 
and who knows how much more frequently. It will generally not pose any 
problem to you, since it simply will receive the message from the 
server, that no new updates are to be found, and then close itself down. 
Yet, as the servers of WinEyes might not stay up forever, who knows what 
error messages it will generate in the coming.
The app is to be viewed as useless, obsolete, and might as well be removed.

Though apps might not take up any extensive space on your computer, and 
might pose no current trouble in running, I do not generally suggest you 
let useless or obsolete software run on your system. It is not likely 
that any of the WE apps might pose real risks in lingering on your 
computer, but really, why leave them there - all the time they never 
will kick into any benefit for you. Even, someone might eventually hack 
the code, and misuse the door you leave open.

How To Uninstall.
Open the WE Control Panel, by hitting Ctrl-Backslash.
Press Alt-A, to go to the App menu.
Choose App Management.
Scroll down to Add/Remove Apps, and hit Enter.
In the list of installed apps, scroll to the unwanted app, and then tab 
over to Remove, and hit Enter.
Shift-Tab back to the list, and repeat the remove process for any app 
you do not want any longer.
First you are at it, make sure to get rid of apps that are known to be 
troublesome, like the Jaws Emulating app.
When done, exit, and make a copy of your working WinEyes Profile, saving 
it on a memory stick or the like. It will come in handy, should you ever 
want or need to reinstall your screen reader.

There might be other apps, which you would no longer benefit from.If 
anyone feels there are apps that I have overlooked, and which never will 
be operational again, maybe you want to share with the list members.

-- 

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Re: Window-Eyes error messages

[David via Talk]

Besides, sending error reports, is nothing but useless.


the error reports that would go to the developing team of the screen 
reader, will likely end up in a non-attended mailbox, and all your 
efforts are good for nothing.


The error reporting system for apps that generate an error report, has 
long been known to have issues. I have NEVER got any reports from users, 
who used the built-in reporting system, whenever my apps generated any 
errors. It was called to GW's attention a few times, but they never got 
it fully sorted. And the servers for forwarding the reports to the app 
developer, might not necessarily be all that operative any longer.


My best advice, would be to ignore all error reporting, and turn off any 
such feature. Should you encounter error messages, please report them on 
the list, and chances are that someone here has a fix for you.


Even if you don't fill in any extra comments on the error report, simply 
just sending it, does generate net traffic, and will benefit NOONE.



On 9/14/2017 2:20 AM, Tom Kingston via Talk wrote:
> What error messages are you getting?
> I'm running Window-Eyes 9.5.4 on Windows 10 Pro 64 with the Creators 
> update and haven't seen any.
>
> Regards,
> Tom
>
>
> On 9/13/2017 5:21 PM, Ian Westerland via Talk wrote:
>> Hello everyone.  I am noticing many more error messages when 
>> Window=Eyes opens.  This does not seem to be associatedd with 
>> anything in particular.  The same response reports are still there 
>> so, even though I know there won't be a response, I am still sending 
>> them.
>> Of course, this is going to happen with a lack of support and is 
>> therefore expected.
>>
>> Window-Eyes still functions so I continue to use it.
>>
>> Cheers.
>>
>>
>> Ian Westerland
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>
>> For membership options, visit 
>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/tom.kingston%40charter.net.
>>  
>>
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>

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Re: MICROSOFT WORD TYPEOVER?

[David via Talk]

Not sure I understand your query correct. But If you have a Word 
document, with a line of underlines, or maybe dots, where you want to 
fill in say your name and address or the like. Yes, that is fully possible.

1. place your cursor at the first of the characters you want replaced, 
like the first underline character.
2. Hit the bypas (Insert-B), followed by only the Insert-key. WinEyes 
will announce "Overwrite".
3. Type in your information. The underline characters will be 
overwritten, or replaced, with the characters you type in.
. Again, hit the Insert-B, followed by only Insert, and WinEyes will 
announce you have gone back to "insert" mode; which is the default mode.

Have filled in several forms in Word 2007, this way, and never heard any 
complaint they would be anything but readable.

Hope I understood, and managed to answer, your query. If not, my apologize.


David

On 9/13/2017 12:48 PM, Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk 
wrote:
 > Hello All:
 >
 >
 > Ok, I am constantly behind the times; guess I'll keep up in my next 
life!
 >
 > Running Office 2007 and using Window-Eyes 9.5.4:  How do I invoke 
TypeOver?
 > Second, when TypeOver is invoked, does it erase whatever is being typed
 > over?  Example:  There are a series of UNDERLINE characters; I would 
like to
 > see these characters disappear and replaced with whatever I type in their
 > place.  Is what I'm thinking of even a possibility?
 >
 > Reason for enquiry?  I'm editing some business-related legal forms 
and want
 > to keep them as neat as possible.  Much thanks for all help!
 >
 > Sincerely,
 > Olusegun
 > Denver, Colorado
 >
 >
 > ---
 > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
 > https://www.avast.com/antivirus
 >
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author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
 >
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 >


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Jaws and Excel

[David via Talk]

Trying to wrap my brain cells around the usage of Jaws. Those of you who 
are more driven in using Jaws with Excel, maybe you can give me some 
directions here, please. OK, I am using Excel 2007, but think my issue 
would be similarly worked out under  any later version of Excel. So all 
feedback is welcome.


Under WinEyes, it is possible to define a column, that should be read, 
whenever you land on a row. You defined it under the hotkey of 
Ctrl-Shift-H, if memory serves me right. What it does, is this:


I have a spreadsheet, holding a list of products, prices and amounts. 
The amount column is the first of each row, like A1, A2, A3 and so on.

Each row, in column C, holds the product name. So, C1, C2, C3 and on we go.

Benefit of the WinEyes feature, is that I can move down the first cell 
of each row, and have its contents (the amount) spoken, along with the 
screen reader automatically read out to me what is in cell C of the same 
row (the product name).

It for instance might read:

     2, Milk;

     3, Bread;

     5, chocolate bars.

Milk, Bread and Chocolate bars, are all found in the C column of the 
spreadsheet, but I do never have to move out of the first (A) cell of 
each row, since cell C automatically is being spoken, as I move up and 
down the individual rows.


For anyone who are familiar with the feature, i am sure you know what I 
mean. Those who have not yet tried it, sorry for not being very good at 
explaining the material.


My big question now, is IF there is a corresponding feature in Jaws. 
What is it called, How do I get to it, and could someone give easy 
step-by-step instructions of setting it up? Once I have a sample, I 
might be able to work out the specifics for other spreadsheets as well. 
I really hope there is such a feature, as otherwise I will have to jump 
back and forth between the individual cells, which is really 
counter-productive.


Thanks for all feedbacks, ideas and workarounds, you might have.

-- 
David

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Re: window-eyes open source?

[David via Talk]

 but noone sued them). Sometimes a 
manufacturer might hold back from developing certain features, in fear 
of getting to close to the stuff of the competitor. NVDA, being a 
non-commercial, Privat-person project, might not be seen as a legally 
threatening product. Even taken to court, it might not be a valid case, 
since all the ingeneers ever could own, is the WAY a task is solved, NOT 
the SOLUTION itself.

Might I tell you, that some decades ago, someone "invented" a technique 
of lifting sunken ships from the seabed, by use of polystyrene pearls. 
They thought the idea so great, they wanted to patentize the whole 
method. Problem was, that Donal Duck had already invented the method, in 
a story some years before; hence HE (Donald Duck) was the rightful owner 
of the idea. yet, it is told the outcome of the whole story, is that the 
company holds the patent of HOW to blow the pearls into the sunken ship, 
but has NO rights for the idea of using this method for lifting ships.
OH, well, even should it all turn out being only a good story, it still 
illustrates how complicated legal stuff sometimes can be. And it further 
somehow could tell why NVDA might have less to fear, in 'snapping' good 
ideas from other products, than what a commercial product would have to 
face.

Summing it all up:
Old-fashioned code making up the base for further development, Stubborn 
professionals, Economic intrests, and fear of legal infringements
- will only be the shell of why one screen reader might perform better 
than the other, on a given case.

might I just hook on to all of this, that there might be cases when NVDA 
really WOULD fall short of the commercials. This would be in cases, when 
the screen reader's performance depends on access to a third-party 
software, and where such access only will be granted, through a costly 
and heavily claused contract with the software owner. Or, in cases when 
the software manufacturer simply denies anyone else, but commercially 
developed projects, any extensive access. Microsoft wanted to deny 
access to certain programming features, clearly blocking screen readers 
in general out from given parts of the Windows-based world. They lost 
their case in the court (about a decade ago), and was forced to lay open 
the necessary info for ingeneers to hook on to part of the OS. This 
might have boosted the screen reader industry, and might even have 
benefitted many other software developers. But unless NVDA might have 
the money to sign contracts, they might be left outside, when it comes 
to certain access;no matter how great their ingeneers are. Being an 
open-sourced product, meaning that the access they are granted will be 
readily available to anyone, might cause certain manufacturer to refuse 
granting NVDA any real access to their products. In those cases, only 
commercial projects, with loads of money and secretly closed up coding, 
will be granted the necessary access to perform well under a given 
environment.


On 9/11/2017 8:38 PM, Marvin Commerford via Talk wrote:
 > Hi.  What you said makes sense.  For me there are things that 
actually work better in NVDA than they do in Jaws which surprises me 
quite a bit.  If you use Thunderbird's message list  NVDA does a far 
better job than Jaws does.  If you delete an unread message from the 
list Jaws rereads the information from the message you deleted.  I tried 
using the Jaws convoluted UI to try to fix this but gave up after close 
to an hour. NVDA does not do this and also tells you how many messages 
there are in a TB folder.  I so far haven't found a web page in Firefox 
that works better with Jaws than it does with NVDA.  I'm still hoping 
for pleasant surprises from Jaws but I'm not holding my breath.  I 
believe in having a commercial screen reader because those companies 
have more resources to keep up with Microsoft.  However, at this time 
I'd find it hard to recommend the purchase of Jaws to a friend or 
student who has limitted financial resources.
 >
 > On 9/11/2017 2:09 AM, David via Talk wrote:
 >> You know, I too am tempted to believe, NVDA will take over some screen
 >> reader users. For one thing, as NVDA becomes yet more powerful, and
 >> widely known, it might happen that paying authorities or cherities, will
 >> refuse to pay hundreds (or in translated version thousands) of dollars
 >> for Jaws. And due to the dominance VFO currently has on the asistive
 >> market, they can raise the price as they desire.
 >>
 >> No. NVDA is far from good enough for a professional run, in a work
 >> position where effeciency counts. It does come short when comes to
 >> certain pieces of software, and it takes some modification and
 >> scripting, to have it up running. Jaws is, like it or not, a
 >> full-fledged screen reader, in many cases working somehow right out of
 >> the box. Sure, I did say somehow. Not even WinEyes did always wo

Re: window-eyes open source?

[David via Talk]

You know, I too am tempted to believe, NVDA will take over some screen 
reader users. For one thing, as NVDA becomes yet more powerful, and 
widely known, it might happen that paying authorities or cherities, will 
refuse to pay hundreds (or in translated version thousands) of dollars 
for Jaws. And due to the dominance VFO currently has on the asistive 
market, they can raise the price as they desire.

No. NVDA is far from good enough for a professional run, in a work 
position where effeciency counts. It does come short when comes to 
certain pieces of software, and it takes some modification and 
scripting, to have it up running. Jaws is, like it or not, a 
full-fledged screen reader, in many cases working somehow right out of 
the box. Sure, I did say somehow. Not even WinEyes did always work right 
out of the box; or why did we get the app feature of WinEyes, do you think?

But for the general home user, who wants to write and read emails, who 
has already invested in a scanner and OCR software, and who needs to 
perform general activities on the net (paying bills, checking the weekly 
offer of their favorite store, and lookup something on Yahoo or 
Google)... For those users, I am ready to say NVDA already will be close 
to good enough. I don't really see too much that Jaws performs, or does 
better, than NVDA on that front.


VFO bought AISquared, and in effect GWMicro. Since the agreement of the 
merge is not publicly known, we do not know how that all came around, or 
what was the thought behind. Who initiated and so forth.

<    IF

the intension was to grow bigger, they really managed; for the time 
being. Was the idea of it all to control the market? Well, somehow maybe 
they have currently managed. But there is something about being the 
biggest and only one in town. You also will have to deal with ALL the 
queries. And, though the world map looks far more International today 
than two decades ago, many customers are facing ecconomic issues that 
might affect their chances of buying a wildly priced product. Somehow, 
we could think this to be some of the consequences of the WEForOffice 
program, which did open up for even the less bolstered wallet to provide 
the needy one with a full-fledged screen reader. Now that this program 
eventually will be obsolete, NVDA might be the choice -even the ONLY 
choice - for many a private user. Or, they might - if their activity 
does not rely solely on Windows - leave the whole computer world 
together, and go mobile.


The somehow dominant position VFO has taken at the moment, might hence 
not be the fact we see tomorrow. That will all depend much on what 
happens in the electronic world all generally. A decade ago, prior to 
the first IPhone, everyone would have claimed that Windows was here to 
stay. Then came the first IPhone, then the IPad, and today many a user 
does not even own a computer any longer. Recently, I did see a 
relatively up-to-date Android device, straight from the store shelf, 
with all warrantees intact, advertised well under 100 dollars. Turn it 
on, hold two fingers anywhere on the screen, and your device is fully 
loaded with a screen reader, in less than five minutes. Just HOW well 
will Jaws face that figure? Buy yourself a computer for anything from 
300 to 1500 dollars, invest another 1200 dollars of software, add on 
1200 for the screen reader; spend an hour or two in installing, 
licensing and updating your brand new pet. Guess you see my point. You 
do all of this, should you need to. But for the user who doesn't need to?


Further, keep in mind, that many who turns blind today, already are 
quite familiar with Android and Phone/Ipad products. Being the kind of 
equipment many - even school kids - now aday are acquainted with, they 
might not even have the skills needed for starting out with a computer. 
Turning blind today, you don't have one or two years to spend in a 
special institution for the blind, hoping to learn something 
old-fashioned, then imagining yourself getting back into some kind of a 
daily living. You simply HAVE TO get going more or less right away. And 
since you already own the mobile device, and all you need is to activate 
the screen reader pre-installed on it, you soon enough will choose that 
avenue. Should you now, in addition want to get your computer going for 
certain tasks, why go through all the hazzle of raising the 1200 
dollars, when you can be in business simply by downloading and 
installing NVDA, and be up running in less than ten minutes? You know, 
you don't even need two eyes to download it for you; you've got Narrator 
for that part of the job.


Again, Jaws might be well enough for those of us who have more heavy 
needs on the Windows-based systems. But as time moves on, we likely will 
slide in the background. Tomorrow's user, likely won't need Jaws, and 
can enjoy a heavy good load of donuts and coffee, for the 1200 saved. :)


David

On 9/11/2017 12:54 AM, Loy via Talk wrote:

Re: window-eyes open source?

[David via Talk]

NVDA, has been developed under a GPL (General Public License) program, 
ensuring it will forever stay open-sourced. This has to be done from the 
very first minute, and it does require full transparency of the code, 
from day one.

The way WinEyes was developed, and sold, will have blocked for it to 
ever go into the same category of software. It could have been taken 
open-source, but never under the same program as NVDA, due to its past 
history. Comparing them, is like asking why you can give away your 
home-baked cake, whilst the baker has to ask 5 dollars for his product, 
then claiming he has to give it away for free, just because you manage 
to do so.

On the other hand, NVDA can never turn into a sold-for-money product. 
Anyone wanting a NVDA for sale, will have to start all over from 
scratch, developing a money-based code. That is all legal stuff, and too 
far above the heads of most of us. Smiles. If you have nothing else to 
do a Sunday afternoon, and really want to be bored for a couple of 
hours, take your time to read the GPL License document, under which NVDA 
has been developed. I do hold they have a link to it, right on their 
homepage.

Admittedly, I did open it once, read the first couple of pages, and gave 
up on the project. There simply is way too many clauses and ifs and 
thens, you never know even what they are talking about. And a search for 
some clarification on the net, just lead me into reading pages of 
lawyer's discussions, arguing back and forth, as to what the contract 
even means in a courtroom. So enjoy your reading project, should you 
decide to follow up on the material. Smiles.


On 9/10/2017 3:53 AM, Pamela Dominguez via Talk wrote:
> It didn't start out with the same business model as window eyes did.  
> Pam.
>
> -Original Message- From: Josh Kennedy via Talk
> Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2017 9:40 PM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Josh Kennedy
> Subject: Re: window-eyes open source?
>
> then how does NVDA work the way it does? and how is it so successful?
>
>
>
> On 9/9/2017 9:37 PM, Tom Kingston via Talk wrote:
>> Your board of directors would not allow you to spend a pile of money 
>> to purchase your competitor and then allow you to put that competitor 
>> right back in business against you. And no business owner with a drop 
>> of sense would want to do it anyway. Businesses like Apple, google, 
>> and Microsoft buy a heap of smaller businesses every year. They don't 
>> do so to turn around and give them away. FS is no doubt picking 
>> through the Window-Eyes code looking for ways to improve JAWS or 
>> features to add.
>>
>> On 9/9/2017 9:19 PM, Josh Kennedy wrote:
>>> if I no longer cared about the product then yes I probably would 
>>> turn around and just open source it. if the product was no longer 
>>> supported by my business I'd just tell people do what you want with 
>>> it, we moved on. take it apart, open source it, whatever. we do not 
>>> care.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/9/2017 9:14 PM, Tom Kingston via Talk wrote:
 No. Think about it. If you were in business and bought your number 
 one competitor would you turn around and give it away for someone 
 else to continue its development?


 On 9/9/2017 9:01 PM, Josh Kennedy via Talk wrote:
> hi
>
> Is there any possibility since window eyes is no longer supported 
> to get the window-eyes source code make it open source and put it 
> up on the github website? then other developers could keep 
> developing window eyes.
>
>
 ___
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>>>
>>> -- 
>>> sent with mozilla thunderbird
>>>
>> ___
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>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>
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For 

Re: window-eyes open source?

[David via Talk]

Matter of fact, this question was raised a couple of days after the 
anouncement of the discontinued development of WinEyes. I will get back 
to what Doug said back then. First of all, let's take a quick look at facts.

Had it been as easy as WinEyes would have been a stand-alone software, 
with all its coding done 'in-house', things would have been pretty easy. 
And had it been that Doug and Dan had been the only ones to develop the 
software, they could have decided whatever they wanted.

Things are not that easy!
First of all, what doug pointed out, was that to get the better 
functionality of WinEyes, they had to reach certain agreements with - 
for instance Adobe - to get access to third-party software, kind of 
behind the scene. If they open-sourced the code, now these techniques 
might be disclosed to the public, threatening the products of the 
third-party manufacturer. In turn, this of course would lead to people, 
not working on assistive technology at all, to get hold of the key for 
the backdoor of - say Adobe's reader - and use it for unwanted activity, 
or even malware development.

Secondly, WinEyes had a feature of offering you loads of apps. Many of 
them are open-sourced, but WinEyes holds a chance for the app developer 
to cryptize his code, for protecting against peekers. This was a 
benefit, for instance when the app has to access a server, and maybe 
even use some login credencials, to perform the activity. Without me 
knowing for sure, we could think of an app like WeatherOrNot, which has 
to access a server, retrieve weather details, and process them for you. 
Now if the developer has reached a given agreement with the 
weather-server provider, that his app will gain free access, under the 
condition of not disclosing the login credencials, we are in trouble in 
open-sourcing WinEyes. By doing so, we would disclose the cryptizing 
code, opening up for people to break the cryptized code of the app, get 
to the credencials, and then misuse it.

Part of the agreement GW made with their app developers, by providing 
the cryptizing feature, was to keep the app code an enclosed program. 
They might get into legal issues, should they disclose the cryptizer, 
thereby lay bare the very code of the app developer, who in turn might 
sue GW for breaking the agreement. This is kind of backed up, by a 
message Doug posted several years back, when someone claimed they had 
broken the cryptizer.

Furthermore, it has been confirmed from Aaron, that some of the apps 
directly from GW, like AppGet, do hold credencials for accessing the 
servers of GW. It is unlikely that they want to have these credencials 
open-sourced. In particular so, if you remember the attack someone gave 
them a few years back, when the code of the GWToolkit was hacked, and 
gave many a WinEyes user quite a shock the morning they turned on their 
computer, and got a threatening message on their screen.

Mind you, GW got into a cooperation with Microsoft, when they introduced 
the WEForOffice program. Even here, they told that this agreement would 
put them in specially close relationship with the ingeneers of 
Microsoft. Who knows what closures might be involved there, and which 
would be broken, had WE got open-sourced.

Now let's move back to the answer Doug gave back in the spring this 
year. The above is a bit of an elaboration of what he said. You will 
find his answer in the archives, but in very short terms:
     NOPE! WinEyes code CANNNOT go open-source; If for no other reasons, 
due to the infringement of third-party agreements involved.

All of this, actually leads me to once again raising the very question:
     Does VFO even have access to the WinEyes code?
VFO might have bought AISquared, thereby also the former GWMicro. But 
they might not have bought the copyright of the source-code. And perhaps 
that was never intended either. Seems all they wanted, was to rid the 
market of any competition, period. Who knows, maybe Doug simply hit the 
Delete-key, the last thing before he handed in the key for the Office 
front-door?

And to assume that VFO's tech personel would bother to plow the 
thousands of lines of coding for WinEyes, in hope of hitting the 
technique used to perform a simple task, is out of range. It would take 
hours, days or even weeks, to figure why things have been done the way 
they were. Or, to find the part of a signed contract, that possibly 
could be renewed in VFO's favor. Far more cost-effective, and resource 
sufficient, to simply look at the behavior of the WinEyes product, and 
sit down developing the same bahavior from scratch. Even calling Adobe, 
Microsoft, AVG, Avast and so forth, asking for a brand new contract. A 
contract VFO already has in place. So my big guess is, VFO DO NOT NEED 
the code of the WinEyes screen reader, and never did. They needed the 
market, and that is what they've currently got.


On 9/10/2017 3:01 AM, Josh Kennedy via Talk wrote:
 > hi
 >
 > Is there any 

Re: question about re installing wineyes

[David via Talk]

Big question is, of course, to what extend VFO really has taken over the 
Copyright of WinEyes. If you notice in the latest installation, it still 
says the Copyright is for AISquared. To what extend does VFO own the 
Copyrights under that company name? An owner might well own the company, 
and the right to sell and distribute the product, but it might not own 
the Copyright.


Let's give you an example. In Sweden, Europe, there is a manufacturer of 
household appliances, worldwide know, named Electrolux. You live in USA, 
and might well start a company named Electrolux US, which in turn buys 
just about - OR even ALL - the shares of the Swedish company. You now 
own the company, but do you own their buildings, their production 
equipment, or even their copyrights? Not necessarily. Depends all on 
what exactly is included in the take-over. Even the very designer of the 
laundry-machine, might be the Copyright holder, meaning that he in fact 
could let several factories manufacture slightly modified versions of 
the same machine, without asking you as the company owner.


We will turn it all over, and give a contra-example.

Canon introduced a portable, book-sized ink-printer, back in 1990. It 
later on was distributed by Brother, and I do hold HP. Difference was 
that the original Canon printer had physical buttons, whereas the 
copy-products had only touch-fields. Oh, yes, and the cover was 
differently colored from one brand name to the other. Would now Brother, 
or HP, hold any copyright to the design of the printer? Likely Canon 
still held its copyright, but the others might have copyright on the 
midifications in appearance, as well as the modification they had in the 
drivers or electronic modifications they might have agreed on inside the 
unit. Each of the actors could have ended the sale of the unit at any 
given time, leaving the others the fuller market share.


Exactly

     WHAT

did VFO buy? The company, OK. But did they buy the actual product? Do 
they have the code dug down in some drawer? Or, did Doug throw it into 
his briefcase, the day he cleaned out his office? What was in that merge?


My greatest suggestion here, would be if someone would be kind to call 
the VFO, and ask them straight forwardly, exactly what copyright will be 
resting on the WinEyes product.


Furthermore, it might be worth to ask, to what extend VFO would ever 
take any steps toward copies of WinEyes. Specially so, since WinEyes at 
the end was given away, for all Office users.


For International users, there might be even more to the story, since 
they might be using a localized version of the screen reader, and I do 
not know if the local dealer, or translator, might have some kind of 
work on the software, that might have been included in the Copyrights. 
Instead of doing all the speculations here on the list, I do suggest 
someone check it up, and please come back and let us know your findings.


True, copyrights do eventually expire, and for all we know, it might 
expire soon enough. Patents for instance, sometimes only lasts for a 
decade. Music might only last for a couple of decades. And according to 
Gutenberg, I do seem to remember copyrights only goes back to 1937, 
unless the copyright somehow has been renewed. But even so, the 
copyright rules might differ from one country to another. Doug did tell 
me once, that some countries in which WinEyes was being sold, had 
copyright rules that contradicted those of USA, hence the localized 
versions of the screen reader would be under special applicable 
juridistictions.


I want to clarify, that I have no intention for anyone to wildly copy 
the screen reader. Yet, I do hold it would be in place, to get in touch 
with VFO - and have them clarify exactly what would apply, should anyone 
help out existing WinEyes users, who would happen to have lost their 
installation copy. In other words, the way I read this discussion, we 
are not talking about distributing anything to new, potential users. We 
are talking about those who already have had a legal attachment to the 
screen reader, while it was still being developed and maintained. For 
new, or future users, totally different aspects might be applicable. 
This might be good to stress, in the query to VFO, as it might affect 
the very reply given. I am in no position to predict the outcome of such 
contact with VFO, but I am sure most users of the screen reader might be 
interested in the answer.



David

On 9/9/2017 9:43 PM, Lloyd Rasmussen via Talk wrote:
> The "just click" may be a patent. In the US, patents expire in 17 
> years. But anything copyrighted since 1922 is, I think, still 
> copyrighted.
>
>
>
> Lloyd Rasmussen, Kensington, MD
> http://lras.home.sprynet.com
> -Original Message- From: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, 
> Inc. via Talk
> Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2017 3:20 PM
> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
> Cc: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc.
> Subject: RE: 

Re: App updates

[David via Talk]

Rod,

Did you try sending your initial message, to the WE Scripting list? From 
old, I know a number of users were subscribing there, but not here on 
the list. So might be a thing to consider, to send a message to that 
list, as it would hit more directly with those who used to develop and 
maintain apps for WE.


The rest of you,

Yes, it would be great for now, to have a way of distributing our 
updates to current apps. Or, even brand new apps. Yet, I want to remind 
you, some of the app developers will already have left WE, more or less, 
so don't expect all apps to be maintained.


On 9/5/2017 11:52 PM, Rod Hutton via Talk wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I have updates for a couple of my apps, and even a new app or two, but VFO is 
> no longer accepting app submissions.
> Is anyone still interested enough in Window-Eyes to wish for someone to set 
> up an independent website for the purpose of app updates?
> I am trying to get a handle on who is still interested in receiving support 
> for Window-Eyes, and so please circulate this question to any Window-Eyes 
> users you know.
>
> Sincere thanks,
>
> Rod Hutton
> ___
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> and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>
> For membership options, visit 
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/trailerdavid%40hotmail.com.
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> .
>

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Re: AW: Jaws browse mode

[David via Talk]

Explains it. Smiles. I know how keys can move around, as well as 
hotkeys, when using English keyboards, compared to using Sandinavian 
keyboards. Thanks for clarifying.


David

On 8/29/2017 4:41 PM, Luciano Ortelli via Talk wrote:
> David,
>
> It's because on the Swiss keyboard y is there where you have z, while we
> have z where you have y. I think the normal key on English or US-American
> keyboards is insert+z.
>
> Furthermore good luck.
>
> Luciano
>
>
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+lortelli=bluewin...@lists.window-eyes.com] Im
> Auftrag von David via Talk
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 29. August 2017 16:11
> An: Russ Kiehne <russ94...@gmail.com>; Window-Eyes Discussion List
> <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
> Cc: David <trailerda...@hotmail.com>
> Betreff: Re: Jaws browse mode
>
> Thanks, that did the trick, Insert-Z.
>
>
> And no wonder you don't find it, when they name the feature something
> totally different. Smiles.
>
>
> At least, now we have solved my first user issue. Then there is only
> left to solve the 1209 others. Even more smiles.
>
>
>
> David
>
> On 8/29/2017 3:53 PM, Russ Kiehne wrote:
>> I think you want insert z to turn on and off virtual view in jaws.
>>
>> -Original Message- From: David via Talk
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 4:05 AM
>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> Cc: David
>> Subject: Re: Jaws browse mode
>>
>> News for you. At least with my installation.
>>
>>
>> In Jaws, pressing the L key, moves you to the next List. Not Link, but
>> list. Unvisited link, is U, and true V is visited link like in WinEyes.
>>
>>
>> If this indicates that I have a messed up installation, then how can I
>> get it rectified? Please.
>>
>>
>> Still, I am looking for the hotkey to turn off browse mode, since I have
>> to adjust the volume in a netbased radio player. To do this, I need have
>> browse mode off, and use the arrow-keys. But since I don't seem to find
>> the correct hotkey to turn off browse mode, I am just moving around the
>> page, when hitting the arrow keys.
>>
>>
>>
>> David
>>
>> On 8/29/2017 12:08 PM, michaels mail via Talk wrote:
>>> Jaws works the same as we v for visited links and i think l for next
>>> link.
>>> And inser plus f 5 will put jaws in a dialog box with all the links
>>> just like we did by pressing insert tab.
>>> Cheers michael.
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: David via Talk
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 6:16 PM
>>> To: WE English Mailinglist
>>> Cc: David
>>> Subject: Jaws browse mode
>>>
>>> OK, finally, they managed to send me a license code for Jaws, and so I
>>> am ready to start my fooling around, for a bit more than 40 minutes.
>>>
>>>
>>> One of my first issues, is to operate the web. Boy, does Jaws take us a
>>> decade back in the way of operating the websites! Am I right, there is
>>> no single way to jump to the next link; that you will have to determine
>>> if it is a visited or unvisited link you are looking for? Sure, I can
>>> see the benefit of making this distinction - when you are visiting a
>>> page you know you have been before. But if you are browsing the net for
>>> something in particular, and you land by chance on a page you have been
>>> before, now you will have to remember that you have some visited, and
>>> some unvisited links to browse. Or, have I overlooked - even missed -
>>> some hotkey here?
>>>
>>>
>>> Next, seems you only can go to the next line of text, coming up after
>>> non-text controls. Meaning you will have to first find the start of the
>>> text block, by the navigation key of N, and then move your hand to the
>>> arrow-keys. Now you have to arrow, til you get to a non-text control,
>>> and then move your hand back to the main keyboard, to hit the N, so as
>>> to get to the next block of text. Again, if I have missed some
>>> operational feature, please will someone be kind to educate me?
>>>
>>>
>>> Most of all, listers. Could someone please tell me the hotkey to turn
>>> on/off the browse mode. In Window-Eyes, we have the Ctrl-Shift-A, but
>>> what is the equivalent in Jaws?
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks so far. I've sure got numerous other things to ask, but they will
>>> go into individual threads.
>>>
>>>
>>> 

Re: Jaws browse mode

[David via Talk]

OK, I start to wonder a bit here.


When I press the K key, it says

     "No Placemarkers",

and it does NOT take me to any new link.


Whatever is going on, I don't know, but that is what I get. Now, if I 
turn on the Key-help, by pressing Insert-1, what do I hear, when hitting 
the K?

     "Go to next Placemarker".

And if I hit Shift-K?

     "Go to previous Placemarker".


Wonder if I have a different keyboard layout activated, or what else 
could be going on.


OK, I did update my Jaws last night, and it is something like version 
18.04. Don't know if they have some changes lately in the layouts. But 
apparently people are having different keystrokes acting up.


Any further ideas, please?

David

On 8/29/2017 4:03 PM, Kevin Huber wrote:
> Hi David:
>
> First of all, the default key combination which takes you in and out
> of Browse mode is
> insert-z.  Insert-f7 takes you to a list of links.  Insert-f5 takes
> you to a list of form fields, and the letter k or shift-k takes you
> from one link to another.
>
>
>
> On 8/29/17, David via Talk <talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote:
>> OK, finally, they managed to send me a license code for Jaws, and so I
>> am ready to start my fooling around, for a bit more than 40 minutes.
>>
>>
>> One of my first issues, is to operate the web. Boy, does Jaws take us a
>> decade back in the way of operating the websites! Am I right, there is
>> no single way to jump to the next link; that you will have to determine
>> if it is a visited or unvisited link you are looking for? Sure, I can
>> see the benefit of making this distinction - when you are visiting a
>> page you know you have been before. But if you are browsing the net for
>> something in particular, and you land by chance on a page you have been
>> before, now you will have to remember that you have some visited, and
>> some unvisited links to browse. Or, have I overlooked - even missed -
>> some hotkey here?
>>
>>
>> Next, seems you only can go to the next line of text, coming up after
>> non-text controls. Meaning you will have to first find the start of the
>> text block, by the navigation key of N, and then move your hand to the
>> arrow-keys. Now you have to arrow, til you get to a non-text control,
>> and then move your hand back to the main keyboard, to hit the N, so as
>> to get to the next block of text. Again, if I have missed some
>> operational feature, please will someone be kind to educate me?
>>
>>
>> Most of all, listers. Could someone please tell me the hotkey to turn
>> on/off the browse mode. In Window-Eyes, we have the Ctrl-Shift-A, but
>> what is the equivalent in Jaws?
>>
>>
>> Thanks so far. I've sure got numerous other things to ask, but they will
>> go into individual threads.
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author
>> and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>
>> For membership options, visit
>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/huber.kevin7%40gmail.com.
>> For subscription options, visit
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>>
> .
>

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Re: Jaws browse mode

[David via Talk]

Thanks, that did the trick, Insert-Z.


And no wonder you don't find it, when they name the feature something 
totally different. Smiles.


At least, now we have solved my first user issue. Then there is only 
left to solve the 1209 others. Even more smiles.



David

On 8/29/2017 3:53 PM, Russ Kiehne wrote:
> I think you want insert z to turn on and off virtual view in jaws.
>
> -Original Message----- From: David via Talk
> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 4:05 AM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: David
> Subject: Re: Jaws browse mode
>
> News for you. At least with my installation.
>
>
> In Jaws, pressing the L key, moves you to the next List. Not Link, but
> list. Unvisited link, is U, and true V is visited link like in WinEyes.
>
>
> If this indicates that I have a messed up installation, then how can I
> get it rectified? Please.
>
>
> Still, I am looking for the hotkey to turn off browse mode, since I have
> to adjust the volume in a netbased radio player. To do this, I need have
> browse mode off, and use the arrow-keys. But since I don't seem to find
> the correct hotkey to turn off browse mode, I am just moving around the
> page, when hitting the arrow keys.
>
>
>
> David
>
> On 8/29/2017 12:08 PM, michaels mail via Talk wrote:
>> Jaws works the same as we v for visited links and i think l for next
>> link.
>> And inser plus f 5 will put jaws in a dialog box with all the links
>> just like we did by pressing insert tab.
>> Cheers michael.
>>
>> -Original Message- From: David via Talk
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 6:16 PM
>> To: WE English Mailinglist
>> Cc: David
>> Subject: Jaws browse mode
>>
>> OK, finally, they managed to send me a license code for Jaws, and so I
>> am ready to start my fooling around, for a bit more than 40 minutes.
>>
>>
>> One of my first issues, is to operate the web. Boy, does Jaws take us a
>> decade back in the way of operating the websites! Am I right, there is
>> no single way to jump to the next link; that you will have to determine
>> if it is a visited or unvisited link you are looking for? Sure, I can
>> see the benefit of making this distinction - when you are visiting a
>> page you know you have been before. But if you are browsing the net for
>> something in particular, and you land by chance on a page you have been
>> before, now you will have to remember that you have some visited, and
>> some unvisited links to browse. Or, have I overlooked - even missed -
>> some hotkey here?
>>
>>
>> Next, seems you only can go to the next line of text, coming up after
>> non-text controls. Meaning you will have to first find the start of the
>> text block, by the navigation key of N, and then move your hand to the
>> arrow-keys. Now you have to arrow, til you get to a non-text control,
>> and then move your hand back to the main keyboard, to hit the N, so as
>> to get to the next block of text. Again, if I have missed some
>> operational feature, please will someone be kind to educate me?
>>
>>
>> Most of all, listers. Could someone please tell me the hotkey to turn
>> on/off the browse mode. In Window-Eyes, we have the Ctrl-Shift-A, but
>> what is the equivalent in Jaws?
>>
>>
>> Thanks so far. I've sure got numerous other things to ask, but they will
>> go into individual threads.
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>
>> For membership options, visit
>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/michaelandjeanie%40aapt.net.au.
>>  
>>
>> For subscription options, visit
>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>> List archives can be found at
>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>> ___
>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>
>> For membership options, visit
>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/trailerdavid%40hotmail.com.
>>  
>>
>> For subscription options, visit
>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>> List archives can be found at
>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>> .
>>
>
> ___
> Any views or opinions presented in this

Re: Jaws browse mode

[David via Talk]

News for you. At least with my installation.


In Jaws, pressing the L key, moves you to the next List. Not Link, but 
list. Unvisited link, is U, and true V is visited link like in WinEyes.


If this indicates that I have a messed up installation, then how can I 
get it rectified? Please.


Still, I am looking for the hotkey to turn off browse mode, since I have 
to adjust the volume in a netbased radio player. To do this, I need have 
browse mode off, and use the arrow-keys. But since I don't seem to find 
the correct hotkey to turn off browse mode, I am just moving around the 
page, when hitting the arrow keys.



David

On 8/29/2017 12:08 PM, michaels mail via Talk wrote:
> Jaws works the same as we v for visited links and i think l for next 
> link.
> And inser plus f 5 will put jaws in a dialog box with all the links 
> just like we did by pressing insert tab.
> Cheers michael.
>
> -Original Message- From: David via Talk
> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 6:16 PM
> To: WE English Mailinglist
> Cc: David
> Subject: Jaws browse mode
>
> OK, finally, they managed to send me a license code for Jaws, and so I
> am ready to start my fooling around, for a bit more than 40 minutes.
>
>
> One of my first issues, is to operate the web. Boy, does Jaws take us a
> decade back in the way of operating the websites! Am I right, there is
> no single way to jump to the next link; that you will have to determine
> if it is a visited or unvisited link you are looking for? Sure, I can
> see the benefit of making this distinction - when you are visiting a
> page you know you have been before. But if you are browsing the net for
> something in particular, and you land by chance on a page you have been
> before, now you will have to remember that you have some visited, and
> some unvisited links to browse. Or, have I overlooked - even missed -
> some hotkey here?
>
>
> Next, seems you only can go to the next line of text, coming up after
> non-text controls. Meaning you will have to first find the start of the
> text block, by the navigation key of N, and then move your hand to the
> arrow-keys. Now you have to arrow, til you get to a non-text control,
> and then move your hand back to the main keyboard, to hit the N, so as
> to get to the next block of text. Again, if I have missed some
> operational feature, please will someone be kind to educate me?
>
>
> Most of all, listers. Could someone please tell me the hotkey to turn
> on/off the browse mode. In Window-Eyes, we have the Ctrl-Shift-A, but
> what is the equivalent in Jaws?
>
>
> Thanks so far. I've sure got numerous other things to ask, but they will
> go into individual threads.
>
>
> ___
> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the 
> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>
> For membership options, visit 
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/michaelandjeanie%40aapt.net.au.
> For subscription options, visit 
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
> List archives can be found at 
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
> ___
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> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>
> For membership options, visit 
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/trailerdavid%40hotmail.com.
> For subscription options, visit 
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> List archives can be found at 
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
> .
>

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Jaws browse mode

[David via Talk]

OK, finally, they managed to send me a license code for Jaws, and so I 
am ready to start my fooling around, for a bit more than 40 minutes.


One of my first issues, is to operate the web. Boy, does Jaws take us a 
decade back in the way of operating the websites! Am I right, there is 
no single way to jump to the next link; that you will have to determine 
if it is a visited or unvisited link you are looking for? Sure, I can 
see the benefit of making this distinction - when you are visiting a 
page you know you have been before. But if you are browsing the net for 
something in particular, and you land by chance on a page you have been 
before, now you will have to remember that you have some visited, and 
some unvisited links to browse. Or, have I overlooked - even missed - 
some hotkey here?


Next, seems you only can go to the next line of text, coming up after 
non-text controls. Meaning you will have to first find the start of the 
text block, by the navigation key of N, and then move your hand to the 
arrow-keys. Now you have to arrow, til you get to a non-text control, 
and then move your hand back to the main keyboard, to hit the N, so as 
to get to the next block of text. Again, if I have missed some 
operational feature, please will someone be kind to educate me?


Most of all, listers. Could someone please tell me the hotkey to turn 
on/off the browse mode. In Window-Eyes, we have the Ctrl-Shift-A, but 
what is the equivalent in Jaws?


Thanks so far. I've sure got numerous other things to ask, but they will 
go into individual threads.


___
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Re: JAWS Software Synthesizer Volume

[David via Talk]

Olusegun, and all other "dreamers".
First of all, let me second much of what Tom already have told you.

Window-Eyes, as well as a number of other software you have come to rely 
on through the years, have been developed to run on Windows machines. 
Windows machines have their way, or ways, to do things. An Android, 
Linux, IOS, or whatever other OS you might fancy, they all will do 
things their own ways.

To hope for a Windows Screen Reader to be ported into Android, just 
because you need thing on the screen read out to you, would be a 
daydream deemed to never happen. The car you use every day, is 
manufactured for running on the roads. it can run on any road, but it 
has to be in contact with the underlaying surface, that is the pavement 
of the road. The airplane you travelled by, last month when going for 
your vacation, is designed to run in the air. The ship that brought your 
new cellphone in from Asia, well it is designed to float on water. When 
did you travel by airplane or ship, going down the highway outside your 
door? They are all made to fill a given purpose, in a given environment.

True, some enventive persons have attempted to make a "one-for-all" 
transportation facility; which could take you on land, in the air, and 
cross the sea. But why have we never got one of them in our yard? 
Because they are neither practical, nor functional. Because they are 
even worse than all the hazzle of today's changing from one means of 
transportation to the other.

The few times we see things that are told to be cross-platformed in the 
electronic world, it only works this well. And certain features simply 
won't be portable, due to the whole layout and construction of the 
underlaying OS. A Windows program, for instance, will never run under 
old DOS, due to the fact that Windows has a graphical interface, DOS did 
not.

Olusegun, you said you don't have programming skills. I could almost 
tell, due to your dreams. Let me then take a couple of your minutes, to 
introduce you to but a few of the rooms in the maze-like programming hotel.

A program code, is much like a recipe. It holds a number of lines, each 
giving an instruction for the computer to carry out a certain task. This 
code has to be readable for humans, or you would have some kind of a 
time in trouble-shooting it. That is why, most programmers make use of 
what is known as a programming language. These are kind of 
interpretters, between you as a human, and the 0's and 1's of the 
computer's inside.

You might have heard someone speak German, another time you heard a 
person speak Greek. None of them were comprehendable to you, unless you 
happen to speak their actual language. They even differ rather, from the 
English language. So does Spanish and French.Likewise inside the 
programming world. One programming language is rather different from 
another. And sometimes you can instruct one language to perform one 
task, and the same cannot be performed in the other programming environment.

To give you one example of such differences, which I ran into recently, 
in the attempt to import some of my code from one programming language 
(VBS) into another environment (AutoHotKey, or AHK).
In VBS, we have an instruction named EVal, which will calculate a 
mathematical expression. You could for instance say:
 EVal( 2 +3 *4)
When running this code, it will perform the following activity, inside 
the computer:
 Add 2 plus 3; gives us 5.
 Multiply the 5, with 4; and we get the result of 20.

Now, what happens if we ask Autohotkey to perform the same calculation? 
That is, it does not even have a single instruction for a calculation, 
but with some triggering we may be able to have it calculate. Problem 
is, that Autohotkey calculates from right to left, and our expression:
 2 +3 *4
will be handled as follows:
 Take 4, multiply with 3; and you get 12.
 Take the 12, and add 2; and the final result goes into 14.
Really, if the rest of our code now has to rely on the result of this 
simple calculation, you who are a business person, soon can see the 
tremendous difference we would come out with. Or, would you think that 
it doesn't matter if we get 14, or 20, as our end result?

OK, this was - believe me - a VERY TINY and insignificant example of 
what happens when we attempt to port one single line of coding, from one 
environment to another. And yes, it is all on a Windows machine. What 
issues we could have run into when trying to run similar pieces of code 
on other platforms, I will let everyone's imagination come up with.

I have been a programmer for some three decades, have learned a couple 
of languages, and am currently in the process of investigating a bit on 
further alternatives for my projects. Even so, I see that you cannot 
perform everything in one environment, but often are much better off, in 
letting each environment do what it is best at. Yet i can assure 
everyone, that such a thing as simply taking 

Re: updated all of my 35 apps

[David via Talk]

Unfortunately, seems like this is yet another way they try to push the 
final point of WE as quickly as possible. Next thing is, they will turn 
down the lists, my guess is. Perhaps the only reason why they still keep 
the lists running, and App Central up, is that people actually make use 
of them.


If now, they will not allow updates to be posted, that would mean noone 
would use the App Central, so it is all good to hit the road for the 
trash-bin. And, the day too few people are active on the list, down 
which road does that take them? :)


Or, are they just awaiting the next failure of the server, then all the 
sudden just determining that no more service will be done on the 
machine, and we are left in the blue. The biggest trouble I find, is 
that VFO simply do not care to inform anyone. They sit there till things 
have reached a point, then just pull the plug. And if they even can pull 
the plug unnoticed, that is their fun. Or, why have we seen no 
announcement of the decision not to update apps, anything before. Too 
sad, as that will make it very hard for developers to do what they 
actually could, to make the screen reader stay up-to-date with the 
newest technologies out there.


Someone setting up a server, might be a good idea. And first it has to 
be done from scratch, why not open a service that would offer users a 
cross-platform service. That is, it could hold not only an app store, 
but a whole app mall. What I am suggesting is, go to the new app mall, 
and here open the link for WinEyes, if that is your screen reader. You 
will have the chance to pick and choose from WE apps. Or, if you are a 
Jaws user, go to ap mall, open the Jaws link, and choose apps from the 
list. Same with NVDA.


Sure, no apps are going to show up in all the sections, but if you 
compare it with a real mall, you don't get milk in the sportsware store 
either, do you. The big benefit of a combined service, would be that 
people had ONE place to go, no matter which screen reader they used. It 
might even encourage app developers, when they see, and read about, the 
different apps for other screen readers. That way, maybe some developers 
would be able to come up with more cross-platform like solutions. Of 
course, it even could have a subsection for IPhone apps, or those for 
Android, that are specialldesigned for visually impaired. Or, at least, 
it could hold some reviews of such apps. Further, if there could be a 
place for developers to go, and pick up articles and tutorials for how 
to build apps under different environments, this could be yet another 
way of encouraging more new apps and features to see the market, under 
any of the screen readers covered.


Thing is, I wonder how long we have to get things going. As the end-date 
of the Jaws transmission offer draws near, I have a tiny feeling we 
might not see the list servers upp running, all that much longer. OK, 
they might be using external servers, but I don't know if there is a 
subscription for them to keep renewed, in such a case, likely it won't 
be kept alive.


If anyone here thinks I am trying to be all negative, let me appologize. 
My one and only point was to accept the facts, sad as they are, and 
suggest that something else could be done to at least get the best out 
of the existing situation.


On 7/21/2017 7:50 PM, Jeff Weiss via Talk wrote:
> I would certainly be interested in such a thing if somebody could set 
> it up.
> I am thinking of a Window-eyes app page which is privately run. It 
> could be an app repository, or it might include more things, like a 
> new Window-eyes list, etc.
> Jeff Weiss
>
>
> -Original Message- From: John Farley
> Sent: Friday, July 21, 2017 11:18 AM
> To: 'Jeff Weiss' ; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
> Subject: RE: updated all of my 35 apps
>
> Dear Jeff,
>
> Some of us do intend to use Window-Eyes as long as it is viable.
>
> Would it be possible to place your updated apps on a public folder 
> somewhere where we could still access them?
>
>
>
> Regards, John
>
> Tel: +44 (0) 1442 259243
> Mob: +44 (0) 7815 056076
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk 
> [mailto:talk-bounces+john_farley=btinternet@lists.window-eyes.com] 
> On Behalf Of Jeff Weiss via Talk
> Sent: Friday, July 21, 2017 5:08 PM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Subject: Fw: updated all of my 35 apps
>
> I just wrote to wesupp...@aisquared.com about updating all of my 35 
> apps. From the response I just received, no more updates to app 
> central will be allowed.
> Even while the web site is active, this seems to be just an 
> unnecessary termination of services which all of the current 
> Window-Eyes users are using.
> I already posted all of the updates a week ago, but aparently no more 
> updates will be approved.
> Jeff Weiss
>
>
>
> From: Bryan Carver
> Sent: Friday, July 21, 2017 10:55 AM
> To: 'Jeff Weiss' ; wesupp...@aisquared.com
> Subject: RE: updated all of my 35 apps
>
> Hi Jeff,
>
> I am not exactly 

News feed, which application

[David via Talk]

Listers,

Perhaps some of you are more into this, and could advice me for a second.


I have a certain website that I often check, to get latest news on a 
particular matter. On the website, i find a button that says 
"Subscribe". This sounds nice, if I could somehow subscribe to the news 
from this site, more easily keep updated.


When pressing the button, I am taken to a page where I can choose which 
way to subscribe. There appears a combobox, with a few alternatives. Two 
of them are named:

 Live Bookmarks,

and,

 My Yahoo.

I do not have an account with Yahoo, and don't know anything about "Live 
Bookmarks".


Also, I can scroll the combobox to a third alternative, which sounds 
more like something useful. It says:

 Choose Your Application.

When scrolling there, the standard Windows File Selection screen 
appears, Asking me for the disk address of my application of choice.


What I am curious to know here, is what kind of application do people 
use with their screen reader, for keeping updated by this kind of 
subscription? And could anyone please inform me, exactly how the 
subscription is supposed to work? Is it like Emails, or what am I to expect?


Currently still on WinEyes, but if there is any scripts/add-ons for 
either Jaws or NVDA, specially designed to give a blind person as smooth 
a subscribing experience as possible, I am listening to any advice.


Thanks,


-- 
David

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Re: combo boxes and drop down boxes

[David via Talk]

Did I get it correct, and the initial poster will happen to have a 
similar box on their banking site as the one I get locally, the 
Alt-Down-Arrow does nothing. Neither in WinEyes, nor in NVDA, nor in 
Jaws. As a matter of fact, the box I see for determining which account 
to charge, and similarly the one for choosing the recipient, these are 
reported by the screen reader to be an Editbox. Yet, if you do not enter 
anything in the box, but simply just use the Up-/Down arrows, you will 
change the account number or name from the list you have on record. Why 
the screen readers recognize these boxes as Editting fields, and not as 
Combobox or anything else, I have never really understood.


Maybe the screen readers should start to recognize them as Editable 
Combos, and read the contents as you arrow through it. I can confirm the 
technique of tab, shift-tabbing, for reading the updated contents.


Mainly I have only seen this behavior on my banking site, and seem to 
remember seeing it on ONE other website. Probably this kind of controls 
might be a new, or extended type, that the screen readers should be 
updated to operate with. Still, might be a challenge, till they get more 
generally used. Unless you happen to be among the users who see it all 
the time in your online banking, you might not even be aware this kind 
of controls exist, or even how to cope with them. And of course, being 
in the banking system, noone else can be pointed there, to see the 
behavior, or what causes it.



On 6/8/2017 12:47 PM, Steve Nutt via Talk wrote:
> Hi,
>
> With any screen reader and combos, just press Alt Down Arrow to open them
> and Alt-Up arrow when you've made your selection.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+steve=comproom.co...@lists.window-eyes.com]
> On Behalf Of Brenda via Talk
> Sent: 07 June 2017 17:58
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
> Subject: combo boxes and drop down boxes
>
> On my banking site I used to get combo boxes which were easy to access to
> select desired account number WITH  ENTER and arrow.
> Now they seem to be drop-down boxes. I also ran into this on an application
> I was filling out.
>
> In Window-eyes if I arrow, shift-tab and tab back and forth I can read and
> adjust my entries.  It is a little time consuming but doable.
>
> Is there an easier way to do this in either Window-eyes or Jaws?
>
> Thanks for the answer to my other 2 questions.  I will try the INSERT-B once
> I get the drop-down thing figured out.
>
> Thanks,
> Brenda
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>

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Re: app central is being blocked by firefox.

[David via Talk]

Is there any chance for you to inform us on the following?


This kind of certificates, how long do they last? Will we possibly run 
into similar situations more often in the near future? Or are the new 
certificates meant to last for a prolonged time, that basically will 
outlive the screen reader itself, or even the OS?


In general, I do agree with the advice of downloading the apps you ever 
think you are going to have any interest in, just for your personal 
backup. But I wonder if the certificates only are for the website 
itself, or would an expired certificate even block something inside the 
apps?


Thanks for any clarification.


David

On 6/6/2017 4:52 PM, Doug Geoffray via Talk wrote:
> Yes, sorry for the confusion everyone.  Our web certificate had expired 
> without our knowledge.  We have renewed the certificate so all is well again. 
>  The warnings and such are all gone and the page is working as it should.
>
> Regards,
> Doug
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dgeoffray=vfogroup@lists.window-eyes.com] 
> On Behalf Of net bat via Talk
> Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2017 1:19 AM
> To: via Talk 
> Subject: app central is being blocked by firefox.
>
> hi,
> i was getting an error for app central that it was a unsecured connection.
> if you get this it is because the gwmicro security certificate expired on 6 4
> 2017
> if you  continue the security certificate will open and you can check the 
> exception check box to allow it. then you will be able to access the app 
> central page.
>
>
> There's amazing intelligence in the Universe.
> You can tell because none of them ever called Earth.
>
> ___
> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author 
> and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>
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To all users of Excel and MSWord

[David via Talk]

I wanted to share with you all, something I just came across on the net.

If you are a user of MSOffice products, and you find you do not have the 
highest skills in either Excel or Word, this might be for you. Or, are 
you among the many users of Office, who could wish for a solution to a 
certain operation you want performed in either of the applications?


There is a website named

 5 minute lessons,

which I just came across. In very short terms, yet what I found to be 
well-written and easy to follow language, they cover multiple issues 
around the Excel spreadsheet, and Word text editor applications. The 
tutorials are quite easy to navigate, with subheadings and links that 
all can be navigated by the screen reader.


So if you like me, are in doubt how to perform anything in Excel or 
Word, why not head over to:

 https://fiveminutelessons.com/

and see if you can find something useful.


Hope you all may enjoy this website.


-- 
David

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Re: Where to find JFW Scripts

[David via Talk]

Too bad, they don't have a one-stop store for the scripts. That really 
will be a great miss from the WE App Central. Eventhough certain apps 
for WE also have been distributed outside the App Central, it still was 
one big resource for getting a hold of what is available.


Last night, I did a search on the net, for Jaws Scripts. Sure enough, a 
ton of websites showed up. Here is a couple of reflections, based on my 
findings; hoping that any of it would prepare other users what to expect.


First of all, one idea might be for you to do a more specified search. Like:

 Jaws scripts Thunderbird

 Jaws scripts Itunes

 Jaws scripts MSOffice

. This way, you would get more directly to scripts that would cover your 
real needs. That is, if you have special needs in a given application. 
Of course, this way you will loose out on any scripts for general usage, 
or applications you would not even be aware of.


Secondly, I find that many developers seem to spread their scripts a bit 
here and there. They might have changed service provider, and not 
bothered cleaning up their old stuff. For instance, when searching for:

 Jaws Scripts Thunderbird,

I found a handful or two of webpages offering such scripts. When 
checking them out, at least a few of them, I found that they would hold 
different versions of what seemed to be pretty much the same script. One 
was dated from 2009, the next from 2010, and you get the idea. smiles. 
This way, it could be really hard for the end-user to know, and ensure, 
that he is running the most up-to-date version of the scripts. And 
what's more, should the user experience any issue with the script, it 
might be hard to get the most recent assistance from others, since you 
don't know if their experience is anything more recent. it occurs to me, 
that this really is not much in the interest of the developer either, 
since he would have much better success in bringing users to town, did 
he ensure the people would know where to get the script, and how to 
obtain the latest.


Thirdly, I do see a few developers who seemingly have created a handful 
of scripts. In such cases, you might want to browse their individual 
homepage, to see what they can offer you. Depending on how well the 
homepage is designed, and exactly how well it is being maintained, you 
will be more or less lucky with your hunt and seek. Even, should you 
find a script, all current and up-to-date, you download and install it - 
but does Jaws have any feature the developer can set, to have the script 
auto-update? Or, will you be left to do another chasing on the net, next 
week, to see if you are all current? And what if you have ten scripts, 
you might have to spend a whole morning in tracing any new updates? Or, 
would any experienced Jaws user please chime in here, and inform us all 
of their general experience on the matter.


The little I have seen of Jaws as of yet - still not been offered the 
transmission locally - it seems to me, Jaws is on a state where WE was 
close to ten years ago. Much could have been said, and was expressed, 
about the needs for further improvement on the WE interface and 
functionality. But even more could be said about the Jaws menus, 
features and definitely script availability, far as I have experienced 
from the demo running. Guess we all have a learning curve, but to a 
degree, I'd say much of that curve is to climb down from the high level 
of Win-Eyes, and reset to what our screen reader was like a handful of 
years ago.


Again, I know it was not much encouraging news, but at least it might 
give some of you a clue what to expect when comes to scripts for Jaws. 
And for anyone who has the skills and resources, a genious idea would 
have been to open a web-service offering Jaws scripts. Wonder if people 
even would have been willing to pay a dollar or two annual fee, for 
having such a service running. At least, if it would be acknowledged and 
honored by the developers. As it stands, seemingly a lot of scripters 
out there, are doing a kind of

 "let me develop something for my own good, and see if anyone else 
happen to find it, or even bother using it."

For some developers that might be perfect, but for many of us who have 
been scripting under WinEyes, the idea of having a product that actually 
makes the day for a number of users, really have been much of the 
spurring driver behind the whole project. It's like cooking for 
yourself, as compared to cooking a real rare roast for your whole family 
party.


David



On 6/2/2017 7:17 AM, Tom Kingston via Talk wrote:
> It's a good example of where customers rate at FS. Window-Eyes and 
> NVDA both offer script repositories while JAWS users have always had 
> to search around the little ol' internet to find them.
> And ironically JAWS is much more dependent on scripts than Window-Eyes 
> and NVDA.
>
>
> On 6/1/2017 4:30 PM, Samuel Wilkins via Talk wrote:
>> I would think that would be a really good 

Re: jaws question.

[David via Talk]

Eh, that will depend. Not all windows will let themselves maximize. I 
agree with the initial question here, Jaws clearly should have a way for 
the user to determine if the window actually is maximized or not. Having 
to attempt maximizing the window, hoping for it to work, without having 
a way of confirming it, would be like you had to try starting your car, 
to check if there is any gas left on the tank.

David

On 5/21/2017 7:52 PM, Dwayne McNutt via Talk wrote:
> The alt plus spacebar followed by the letter x will maximize the window.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk 
> [mailto:talk-bounces+dwaynemcnutt=outlook@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
> Behalf Of michaels mail via Talk
> Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2017 6:48 AM
> To: window eyes help list
> Subject: jaws question.
>
> Hi i was wondering if jaws had a key stroke to read if the windows are maxed 
> or minamized.
> WE would speek that by pressing control shif t.
> If i press jaws key and t it just reads the title window.
> Cheers michael.
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Re: where do I go?

[David via Talk]

Maybe many of you will not be aware of this, but Jaws and NVDA actually 
have some quick-keys for setting key echo. If memory serves me right, 
try hitting Insert-2, the 2 on your main keyboard, and the key echo 
should change to "word", which will be the answer to one of the initial 
queries.


Just thought to let you all know.


And, first you are at it, it doesn't hurt to test what other features 
will be attached to the Inser-key, along with the number row on your 
keyboard. One good news, which you all will love to be reminded, is that 
Jaws is similar to WinEyes, in that Inser-1, will open the keyboard help 
mode. Once activated, go ahead and press any key-combination your brain 
could ever come up with. It won't change anything in your screen reader, 
but sure will give you a good feeling of some of the most daily used 
features. Anyone called for some hands-on tutoring? Can't be anything 
more hands-on, and it will be totally free of charge. Smiles. A good 
place to start out.


Still, if anyone please could inform if there is a quick set of 
mouse-moving keystrokes, I am sure people here would love to learn.



David

On 5/18/2017 11:18 PM, Tony C via Talk wrote:
> Jaws key and J the enter on options, there you will find options to 
> set up typeing echo, ie: letters, words, etc, speech rate and such. up 
> and down arrow to read the screen, jaws key down arrow to reade whole 
> page. Quite a few of the navigation commands are the same as with WE. 
> There are a few differences. Then tutorials are very good, short and 
> to the point. HTH
>
> -Original Message- From: Jim via Talk
> Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 3:07 PM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Subject: where do I go?
>
> Hi there PEOPLE!
>
> Just got JAWs downloaded and installed. Question, Where do I go to turn
> off the tab announce, the up/down announce and the space announce? Also,
> is there mouse keys that I can read the screen with? How do I go about
> reading the screen using JAWs?  And finally, how do I set it to say the
> words after typing them instead of speaking each letter?  Thanks Much de
>
> .
>
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> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
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Re: Window-Eyes to JAWS Migration

[David via Talk]

Sounds like a great place to start.


WinEyes users have come to enjoy the benefits of  the App Central, to 
download and keep an eye on all the apps been offered for the screen 
reader. Does there exist any kind of a central place for getting an 
overview of which scripts would be available for Jaws? Or, is the user 
left to hunt the complete internet and a few places more, to get an idea 
of available scripts for the Jaws screen reader?


Thanks for some knowledgeable assistance. we sure will need some of 
that, in the next few weeks. Smiles.


David

On 5/18/2017 6:40 AM, David Moore via Talk wrote:
> Hi all,
> I just want to let you know that there are many tutorials and teachings 
> pertaining to using JAWS with many programs at the following URL:
> www.freedomscientific.com
> Everything you need to know about JAWS is somewhere on this website. There 
> are many teachings and tutorials to get you started with JAWS.
> David Moore
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: Tony C via Talk
> Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 10:49 PM
> To: Dave; Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: Window-Eyes to JAWS Migration
>
>  I think someone would have to be a bit dim-witted not to take the offer.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Dave via Talk
> Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 9:37 PM
> To: Orlando Enrique Fiol ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: Window-Eyes to JAWS Migration
>
> Hello Orlando,
>
> There was, at least for me, a good reason to migrate Sooner rather than
> later.
>
> If I wait around too long, say after the end of July, the VFO offer to
> register me with a Free Copy of JAWS 18 would go away, and I would then
> need to fork out $1000.
>
> Plus, I really had nothing to lose by taking the offer from VFO.
>
> Window Eyes is working well enough, for now, and I have also been using
> NVDA, which has been doing what I need it to do at Work.  I can take my
> time to learn JAWS, since I have two other Screen Readers to use until I
> come up to speed with Jaws.
>
> >From what I've seen of Jaws so far, Jaws is a very powerful Screen
> Reader.
>
> Learning Jaws is something like moving to a new neighborhood, after
> living in another neighborhood for 20 or more years.  The new
> neighborhood is different, and Unknown.As a blind man, I now need to
> learn my way to a few places, such as the Grocery store, Drug Store,
> and to the Bus stops.   The Curbs are similar but different.  The street
> crossings are similar and yet different.
>
> Even the Sidewalks are similar, and yet they too are different.
>
> Jaws is the same.  jaws does many of the things Window Eyes does, just
> in slightly different ways.  Terms and Features are different or Similar
> to Window Eyes terms and Features.
>
>
> I think VFO put some thought into their offer to Window Eyes users, and
> they were ready with Tutorials for those who would Migrate.   They
> didn't need to do this.  They could have just told all new users of Jaws
> to wade through the existing Help Documentation--  which might have
> been more than enough for most.  But, instead they did what they did to
> help Window Eyes users make the transition smoothly.
>
> As migrators, we do need to put in some effort to learn the new Screen
> Reader.  insisting that VFO some how owes all of us some extra special
> training  is just another example of that Spoiled Handicapper
> EntitlementMentality, that is so ugly.
>
> Like moving into the New Neighborhood, by walking around, doing some
> exploration, all will make the new and unfamiliar neighborhood become
> familiar and like Home.   It takes effort though.  Effort on your part,
> not on VFO's part.
>
> Grumpy Dave
>
>
>
> Dave 
>
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Re: whole migrating situation

[David via Talk]

And, if you buy a new car - separate model and brand from the old one 
you have been driving the last ten years, do you then expect the car 
manufacturer to run a driving class for you? All for free? Or, even 
worse, do you expect them to pay your driver's license and all the 
training to get it?


Agreed, a few cheat-sheets had been a nice thing to have in place. I 
have listened to the short tutorials provided from the migration site, 
and though they are both informative and helpful, many of us might have 
better result from some quick reference material. But if you need 
hands-on training, and even individual training, that is (and has always 
been) your choice, and your cost. Or, why not ask around in your local 
vicinity, and see if some experienced users would be willing to give you 
a Saturday afternoon for free, across the coffee-table.


GW, AISquared, and now VFO - they all have thousands of users around the 
globe. It is impossible that all should have individual training. A 24/7 
customer service? Sure, would be nice. But it would need to be organized 
a whole lot different from what the normal market structure is alike. It 
would have to be on a Call-For-basis. Or, do you expect them to pay 
someone an hourly pay, just to sit in the office and await for someone 
to happen to call in, or asking questions on Email?


If you are unable to take the time to listen to a few hours of training 
material, even at any convenient time for yourself, how come you would 
be able to set aside any time for hands-on training? If it is more a 
matter of you not being able to grasp what is told in a pre-recorded or 
pre-written instructional material, then I do see why you are calling 
for hands-on training, one-to-one. But then your whole argument about 
the time-issue, does fall on rocky ground. If again, you are looking for 
someone to answer your questions in a quick and effecient way, 24/7, I'd 
say this list is a great opportunity. Agreed, a good Jaws list, with 
friendly attitude, would have been great; and might exist. A bit of 
active participation from the VFO group, sure would not have hurt, at 
least in the couple of months the migration offer is valid, and maybe a 
very short period thereafter - to catch up with the very last migrators.


So your query might be valid, but keep it factual and realistic.


On 5/17/2017 2:57 PM, Loy via Talk wrote:
> Some one has to pay the trainers! People don't work for free.
>- Original Message -
>From: Kurlander Richard (75) via Talk
>To: Raul A. Gallegos ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 8:41 AM
>Subject: RE: whole migrating situation
>
>
>
>This is just what I mean, why should I have to pay for training from 
> another company when vfo should have people there to do free training.
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Talk 
> [mailto:talk-bounces+rkurlan=schools.nyc@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf 
> Of Raul A. Gallegos via Talk
>Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 8:01 AM
>To: richard kurlander 
>Cc: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
>Subject: Re: whole migrating situation
>
>Richard, I'm happy to discuss one on one hands on training with you. 
> Please contact me off list and we can go over your needs and the costs. Look 
> forward to hearing from you.
>
>--
>Raul A. Gallegos
>Assistive Technology Trainer - RGA Tech Solutions
>
>Mobile: 832.554.7285
>Work: 832.639.4477
>Personal Email: r...@raulgallegos.com
>Work Email: train...@rgats.com
>
>“Any teacher that can be replaced with a computer, deserves to be.” – 
> David Thornburg
>
>
>> On May 17, 2017, at 12:36 AM, richard kurlander 
>  wrote:
>>
>> you used to work for we I feel as a blind person that tech support in 
> these companies should give hands on training for free not just say read a 
> manual or listen to tutorials. that doesn't work for me. I learn better with 
> hands on. I work all day and certainly do not have the time to read manuals 
> or listen to tutorials. If I switch to jaws I have sma's from we that will be 
> switched over if I get another screen reader I would have to pay money. is 
> there a list of screen reader companies in the us?At 03:06 PM 5/16/2017, you 
> wrote:
>>> Hi, this is not true. What about other browsers like Firefox and 
> Chrome? There is always choice. -- Raul A. Gallegos Assistive Technology 
> Trainer - RGA Tech Solutions Voice and Text: 832.554.7285 Office: 
> 832.639.4477 Personal Email: r...@raulgallegos.com Work Email: 
> train...@rgats.com Twitter: @rga7285 and @RGATrainer “Any teacher that can be 
> replaced with a computer, deserves to be.” - David Thornburg On 5/16/2017 
> 1:35 PM, Kurlander Richard (75) via Talk wrote: > We have a monopoly now, 
> since eventually ie will be gone and everyone will have to use  Microsoft 
> edge and if jaws is 

Jaws-key, can it be remapped?

[David via Talk]

Tried the demo of Jaws. Sure got a lerning curve. But one thing that I 
see as a drawback, is the Jaws-key.


I do understand the jaws-key is the Insert-key. Since I am on a laptop, 
with no numpad, I am using the Insert-key which would be located along 
with my home, end and so forth. Yet, in WE, I have come to appreciate 
the Capslock functioning as an alternative Insert-key. This does not 
seem to be the case under Jaws, at least not on my system.


Question:

Is there a setting in Jaws, that will let me use the Capslock as the 
Jaws-key? And if so, where do I find it. Please bear in mind, I am brand 
new to Jaws - and so are many others - so complete set of steps will be 
highly appreciated.


Thanks to those of you who are more skilled with the other screen reader.



-- 
David

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Re: Window-Eyes users in the UK

[David via Talk]

Apparently this is the case pretty much all over. Our local dealer has 
not had much info either, except from what we all know, the webpage Doug 
and Aaron pointed us to yesterday, and the email stating the state of 
things. As a matter of fact, it seems some of us users read the message 
even a couple of hours before the dealer could get to it. That really 
seem like strange business to me, all the time VFO urge us to contact 
our local dealer for further details. But as a matter of fact, this has 
been the case for long, even under the old GW, the dealers often did not 
get any news until everyone else did.


Sure wish things had been a bit more prepared, that we as end-users 
could have moved on. As it stands, all users outside the North-America, 
might be left in the wilderness for yet an undefined period of time. But 
I guess the only thing to do, really, is to sit down and try being 
patient, awaiting them sorting things out.


David

On 5/16/2017 11:28 AM, John Farley via Talk wrote:
> Hi Steve,
>
> I had forgotten that you were also a Window-Eyes dealer in the UK.
>
> Aaron Smith just pointed out Sight and Sound to me when I asked him who the
> dealer was in the UK.
> I can repeat Peter's comment that Toby, in S and S, knows nothing about any
> actions they will be taking yet and wants me to check his web site
> periodically just to see if there are any changes on it!
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards, John
>
> Tel: +44 (0) 1442 259243
> Mob: +44 (0) 7815 056076
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk
> [mailto:talk-bounces+john_farley=btinternet@lists.window-eyes.com] On
> Behalf Of Steve Nutt via Talk
> Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 10:04 AM
> To: 'pete gurney'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
> Subject: RE: window-eyes users in the UK
>
> Hi Pete,
>
> Worse still, as a dealer of Window-Eyes I have also had absolutely no
> contact.
>
> So to me, VFO haven't really changed the way Freedom used to do things, they
> are not supporting dealers or customers outside the UK very well at this
> point.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+steve=comproom.co...@lists.window-eyes.com]
> On Behalf Of pete gurney via Talk
> Sent: 16 May 2017 09:22
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
> Subject: window-eyes users in the UK
>
> hi all,
>
> having just spoken to the main dealer of Jaws in the UK Sight and Sound they
> have confirmed that they have had no contact from VFO concerning any
> migration offer for window-eyes users in the UK.
>   they have asked me to speak to them again next week to give them time to
> try and find out what is happening, but as of this minute it appears as if
> there is no offer for users over here and we could be left high and dry.
>
> pete.
>
> ___
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> and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>
> For membership options, visit
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Re: Window-Eyes to JAWS Migration

[David via Talk]

Confused.


I did go to the webpage provided by Doug. Here I am supposed to choose 
the version of Jaws to download. OK, I do understand the stuff about 32 
64bit. What confuses me, is that there is first a choice for 32/64bit, 
and then the same for something that says non-tandem.


What should I go for, and will that have any impact on the licensing?


Further, it asks me to choose my prefered language. What is the 
licensing of Jaws, when comes to english/non-English versions? Can you 
freely switch within the set of supported languages, or is it the way 
you download and license one given language, and are stuck with that 
language forever?


Thanks for any pointers.



David

On 5/15/2017 6:50 PM, Doug Geoffray via Talk wrote:
> Mark,
>
> Window-Eyes will continue to run as normal so the everlock version won't have 
> an issue.  However, I suspect after the first of the year you will not be 
> able to return a license or authorize a new machine.  If this becomes a 
> problem, just let me know.  As for getting JAWS, just go to:
>
> http://www.freedomscientific.com/Downloads/JAWS
>
> Download the version you want and activate it with your new license code.
>
> Regards,
> Doug
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mark Cussons [mailto:lo...@mweb.co.za]
> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 12:33 PM
> To: Doug Geoffray ; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' 
> 
> Subject: RE: Window-Eyes to JAWS Migration
>
> HI Doug,
> How will this affect those of us with everlock versions of window eyes? So 
> how do you download jaws? Just download it and put in the new authorisation 
> code?
> Regards
> Mark
>
>
> Mark Cussons
> email:  lo...@mweb.co.za
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+lomo1=mweb.co...@lists.window-eyes.com] On
> Behalf Of Doug Geoffray via Talk
> Sent: 15 May 2017 04:50 PM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Subject: RE: Window-Eyes to JAWS Migration
>
> Don,
>
> It is mainly a licensing difference.  The home version cannot be used in a
> work environment.  Functionality wise, they are identical.  The cost of SMAs
> and upgrades does cost more for the Pro version.
>
> Doug
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk
> [mailto:talk-bounces+dgeoffray=vfogroup@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf
> Of Don H via Talk
> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 10:38 AM
> To: Aaron Smith via Talk 
> Subject: Re: Window-Eyes to JAWS Migration
>
> Aaron,
> Glad to see you are still around.  What is the difference between JAWS Pro
> and Home versions?
>
> On 5/15/2017 9:14 AM, Aaron Smith via Talk wrote:
>> Thank you for being a valued member of the GW Micro and Window-Eyes
> family. We regret to announce that sales of Window-Eyes have ended in the
> United States and Canada. Users outside of the United States and Canada
> should contact their local distributor for options. We are committed to our
> customers and will honor existing product purchases and software maintenance
> agreements, and we will continue to provide technical support to end users
> that have purchased Window-Eyes or a support package.
>> All users who are currently using Window-Eyes can continue to use the
> software indefinitely; however, as the WindowsR operating system and/or
> applications change over time, Window-Eyes may not function adequately for
> your needs.
>> We understand how important a screen reader is to you and are offering
> JAWSR for Windows 18 as a replacement.  We are committed to providing a
> smooth transition and will honor existing Window-Eyes product purchases and
> software maintenance agreements (SMA), as follows.
>> . End users that paid for and are current with Window-Eyes 9.x
> will be converted to JAWS 18 at no charge.
>> . If you are using an earlier version of Window-Eyes, you can
> purchase an upgrade to JAWS 18.
>> . If you are using the free version of Window-Eyes you can
> continue to use it. While there is not an upgrade path from the free
> version, if you are interested in purchasing JAWS, please contact our sales
> team at 800-444-4443.
>> . Existing Window-Eyes SMAs will be rolled into the JAWS SMA
> program for end users that migrate to JAWS.
>> Learn more about the migration options and pricing by visiting
> http://www.gwmicro.com/window-eyes/migrate.
>> To make this process as easy as possible, we ask you to complete a simple
> web form that will go directly to our sales team, who will then contact you
> with an authorization code for JAWS 18, or request additional information if
> necessary.
>> Requests for upgrades must be submitted at
> http://www.gwmicro.com/window-eyes/migrateform or by phone at 800-444-4443
> by July 31, 2017.
>> Note, the free Window-Eyes Offer for Users of Microsoft Office version is
> not part of the conversion program.
>> If you have any questions please call us at 800-444-4443 or email us at
> mailto:ord...@vfogroup.com.
>>
>> Aaron Smith
>> VFOT | 

Getting Jaws

[David via Talk]

Is there anywhere I can download and install Jaws?


As I am planning to migrate, will it be possible for me to install Jaws 
today, and let it run in some kind of Demo mode until I get my migrated 
license key? Or, will I have to then uninstall the demo, and go the long 
way around a new installation?




-- 
David

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Mailinglist

[David via Talk]

Anyone knows the sign-up address and procedure for a mailinglist, 
similar to this one, for Jaws?


And does there exist any mailinglist for those who want to develop 
Scripts (or apps, or whatever they are named under Jaws)?


Thanks,


-- 
David

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Re: Window-Eyes to JAWS Migration

[David via Talk]

Question:


For those of us who have a fully paid version of WinEyes, with no 
restrictions as to the number of computers on which it can be run, will 
we now have to face the challenge of limitted installations of Jaws? 
Meaning that we either will have to reduce our number of units, or 
shovel out a chunk of money on an additional license key - so as to 
continue to run on our computers, and backup systems after the transmission?


More question:

Will this list continue to exist, for WinEyes users to continue helping 
each other out? Same with App Central? Or, will these services be 
discontinued in the near future?



David

On 5/15/2017 4:48 PM, Doug Geoffray via Talk wrote:
> Window-Eyes will continue to run as it always has.  Even if you migrate you 
> can continue to have Window-Eyes installed and switch back and forth as you 
> need to.  The only thing with Window-Eyes is it will no longer be upgraded.  
> So 9.5.4 is the last version.
>
> Regards,
> Doug
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dgeoffray=vfogroup@lists.window-eyes.com] 
> On Behalf Of Loy via Talk
> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 10:28 AM
> To: Aaron Smith ; Window-Eyes Discussion List 
> 
> Subject: Re: Window-Eyes to JAWS Migration
>
> Need clarity on one thing. As an current paid user of WE, if we convert to 
> JAWS, does that mean we no longer can use WE?
> - Original Message -
> From: "Aaron Smith via Talk" 
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 10:14 AM
> Subject: Window-Eyes to JAWS Migration
>
>
> Thank you for being a valued member of the GW Micro and Window-Eyes family.
> We regret to announce that sales of Window-Eyes have ended in the United 
> States and Canada. Users outside of the United States and Canada should 
> contact their local distributor for options. We are committed to our 
> customers and will honor existing product purchases and software maintenance 
> agreements, and we will continue to provide technical support to end users 
> that have purchased Window-Eyes or a support package.
>
> All users who are currently using Window-Eyes can continue to use the 
> software indefinitely; however, as the Windows(r) operating system and/or 
> applications change over time, Window-Eyes may not function adequately for 
> your needs.
>
> We understand how important a screen reader is to you and are offering 
> JAWS(r) for Windows 18 as a replacement. We are committed to providing a 
> smooth transition and will honor existing Window-Eyes product purchases and 
> software maintenance agreements (SMA), as follows.
> . End users that paid for and are current with Window-Eyes 9.x will be 
> converted to JAWS 18 at no charge.
> . If you are using an earlier version of Window-Eyes, you can purchase an 
> upgrade to JAWS 18.
> . If you are using the free version of Window-Eyes you can continue to use 
> it. While there is not an upgrade path from the free version, if you are 
> interested in purchasing JAWS, please contact our sales team at 800-444-4443.
> . Existing Window-Eyes SMAs will be rolled into the JAWS SMA program for end 
> users that migrate to JAWS.
> Learn more about the migration options and pricing by visiting 
> http://www.gwmicro.com/window-eyes/migrate.
>
> To make this process as easy as possible, we ask you to complete a simple web 
> form that will go directly to our sales team, who will then contact you with 
> an authorization code for JAWS 18, or request additional information if 
> necessary.
>
> Requests for upgrades must be submitted at 
> http://www.gwmicro.com/window-eyes/migrateform or by phone at 800-444-4443 by 
> July 31, 2017.
>
> Note, the free Window-Eyes Offer for Users of Microsoft Office version is not 
> part of the conversion program.
>
> If you have any questions please call us at 800-444-4443 or email us at 
> mailto:ord...@vfogroup.com.
>
>
> Aaron Smith
> VFOT | Enterprise Compliance
> 11800 31st Court North, St. Petersburg, FL 33716
> T 727-803-8000 x 6208 F 727-803-8001
> ajsm...@vfogroup.com
> www.vfogroup.com
>
> The information contained in this communication is confidential, may
> constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the
> addressee. It is the property of VFOT. Unauthorized use, disclosure or
> copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and
> may be unlawful.  If you have received this communication in error, please
> notify us immediately by return email, and destroy this communication and
> all copies thereof, including all attachments.
>
> ___
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> and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>
> For membership options, visit
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/loyrg2845%40gmail.com.
> For subscription options, visit
> 

Re: somewhat off topic: finding sample music accessible to window-eyes

[David via Talk]

There would of course be ITunes, though it is a bit of a learning curve. 
But it will let you prelisten to the tracks of an album, and also let 
you buy the songs. Then again, the songs will be in the M4A format of 
Apple, which is not playable on all players. It all depend on what 
exactly you want, and which playback method you are going to use, once 
bought the songs.


Hope you find some solution, and can share it with us all, as I am sure 
there will be many a user who wants to know the same thing.




David

On 5/13/2017 4:24 AM, Ted Larson via Talk wrote:
> Dear List:
>
> I am using windows ten on my laptop computer.  When I listen to an internet
> radio program called Celtic Connections, they may play a song from various
> new releases.  I am having trouble with trying to find a way to play samples
> of each song on an album.  I know there are a bunch of you music lovers out
> there with a lot of experience in gathering songs.  My question is:
>
> Is there a free website that I can go to where I could plug in the name of
> an album and hear samples of all of its songs?  I do not want to pay $10 per
> month just to listen to samples.  If there is such an accessible website, I
> could then purchase just those albums I liked best.  If you know of any way
> to do this, would you please let me know how to do it.  Thanks for any
> ideas.  Regards:  Ted Larson
>
> ___
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Re: vocalizer and vocalizer expressive

[David via Talk]

If you buy the CodeFactory version, will it then work under other 
software, like a standard SAPI voice? I.e, could you use it even under 
NVDA? Or, is it tied to WinEyes in any way?


Would you have any address where to buy it?


Thanks,


David

On 4/24/2017 10:08 PM, Steve Nutt via Talk wrote:
> Hi Reeva,
>
> But you don't, and probably never will, get V2 of the voices with the new
> languages and voices such as Malcolm.
>
> You can however, buy the Code Factory versions of the voices and they work
> just as well.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+steve=comproom.co...@lists.window-eyes.com]
> On Behalf Of Reeva Webb via Talk
> Sent: 20 April 2017 08:28
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List ; net bat
> 
> Subject: Re: vocalizer and vocalizer expressive
>
> When you buy vocalizer for we, english you get all english voices and can
> download whatever voice quality you want.
>
> "the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
> night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho
>
> Reeva
>
> On Apr 19, 2017 5:48 PM, "net bat via Talk" 
> wrote:
>
>> whats the difference?
>> i see the tom vocalizer and tom vocalizer expressive on the aisquared
> site.
>> do both versions cost the same $59.99?
>> and is this for only one voice?
>> do i have to choose between the compact, standard, premium,and premium
>> high versions  when i buy a package?
>> i like the sound of the tom premium high samples i found and aisquared
>> does not say what voices are in each catagory above.
>>
>> it would be nice if aisquared had trialware for the voices so i could
>> see the plus or minuses of the voices with w e.
>> there are a few companies that give you a 7 day free trial, but they
>> are not for w e.
>> thanks for info.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> There's amazing intelligence in the Universe.
>> You can tell because none of them ever called Earth.
>> ___
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>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>
>> For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/o
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>>
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Re: braille displays and we

[David via Talk]

Many of the listers may never remember the "old days" in the assistive 
world. But for those of us who does, I for one can still remember the 
days when no Braille display had cursor routing capabilities. I can 
assure you it is not totally necessary, though quite handy, to have this 
functionality.


As for the user who asked how to fetch the cursor, in the middle of a 15 
page document, I am not totally sure I get the point in the query. And, 
it's been a while since I had a Braille display attached to my WinEyes 
machine, so forebare please with me, should my memory fail. Usually, 
when moving the Braille display, you could set it to "pull" the cursor 
along. At least, that used to be the case in other screen readers. 
Meaning, if you move the Braille display to next line, the cursor on the 
screen also would move down one line in the document. Now, should you 
find something to correct on that line, you would just have to use the 
arrows on the computer keyboard to direct the cursor to the correct 
position.


Alternatively, instead of moving the Braille Display line by line, you 
would set it to follow the cursor, and then do all your moving directly 
with the computer arrows. That way, you definitely would have the cursor 
handy - at the same line as the display - at any given time. Sure, you 
would have to move your hand up on the main keyboard for the next line, 
but that simply is a matter of habit. With a small display of something 
like 20-30 cells, you might even be better off in doing the reading 
altogether with one hand, leaving the other on the arrows of your main 
keyboard, thereby eliminating all issues of cursor redirection.


As for how to operate the mouse, by using the braille display - like 
when you can click one of the cursor routing keys and have it act as a 
mouse-click - I am not sure how they solve this on modern displays 
without the cursor-routing keys. My experience with this kind of 
displays run way back in the DOS days, when a mouse still had four legs, 
peeped, and ran into the nearest hole in the wall when it heard any 
mention of a cat. Hence, the issue of operating such a pet on the 
computer screen for a blind person, would still be several years ahead 
in time. Smiles.


Well, have we all been a bit nostalgic through the years? :D



David

On 4/24/2017 11:34 PM, Rod Hutton via Talk wrote:
> Hi Chris,
>
> Perhaps a little app could be written to accomplish this.
> A brief glance at the developer's manual leads me to believe it shouldn't be 
> too difficult.
>
> All the best,
>
> Rod
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
> On Behalf Of Chris G via Talk
> Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 10:06 AM
> To: Steve Nutt via Talk 
> Subject: Re: braille displays and we
>
> I agree,
> I wonder what happens if you are panning through a large document and
> want to edit a word 5 pages into your document, how does one move the
> editing cursor to the place on the braille display?
>
>
>
> Chris Grabowski
> Mystic Access
> Where the magic is in learning.
> http://www.MysticAccess.com
>
> Check out our eclectic and comprehensive assistive technology podcasts at:
> http://www.MysticAccessPodcast.com
>
> Join our free announce-only mailing list to receive product news,
> podcast updates and exclusive coupon codes. Please send a blank email to:
>
> manews-subscribe@mysticaccess.email
>
>Contact:
>
> Phone: (716) 543-3323  (Ext. 500)
>
> Twitter: MysticAccess
> Facebook: mysticaccessempower
>
>
>
>  Original Message 
> From: Steve Nutt via Talk
> Sent: Monday, Apr 24, 2017 6:03 AM EST
> To: 'Josh Kennedy'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
> Subject: braille displays and we
>
> Hardly useful if you can't move the cursor with the display.
>
> I think I'll give the Orbit a miss.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+steve=comproom.co...@lists.window-eyes.com]
> On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy via Talk
> Sent: 08 April 2017 19:23
> To: steve.jacob...@visi.com; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
> 
> Subject: RE: braille displays and we
>
> yes that is correct, there are no cursor routing buttons at all. but that is
> ok I can do without cursor routing buttons.
> when you are editing a word, the screen reader tells the orbit20
>
> Sent with AquaMail for Android
> http://www.aqua-mail.com
>
>
> On April 8, 2017 14:17:22 "Steve Jacobson"  wrote:
>
> Joshua,
>
> I have not seen the latest prototypes of the Orbit Reader, but I
> assume there are still no cursor routing keys, is that correct?  You
> said you can't use it with Window-Eyes, but have you used it with
> other screen readers?  If so, what does it do when you have a cursor
> that moves when you are editing a word?  In other words, how well does
> it show that a cursor moved but no characters changed?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Steve 

Re: firefox and w/e

[David via Talk]

Perhaps I am missing something. But what info do you have, that 
indicates Webvisum no longer to work with Firefox.


I just checked their homepage, and did not find any such indication. 
Maybe I did not look carefully enough. Still, if you could please 
provide some info on the matter, I would greatly love to know, before 
upgrading to newest version of the browser, which was suggested on my 
computer this morning.


BTW, would anyone know how to block automatic updates in Firefox? I am 
not too eager on doing so, as it does pose a risk, but just wanted to 
know in case it should be necessary. Or, alternatively, how do I roll 
back an installed update?


Thanks,


David

On 4/25/2017 2:33 AM, mcleod stinnett via Talk wrote:
> now that web visum no longer works with f f 53 i went back to f f 455
> e s r and w v works fine. however, plain old favorites no longer
> works. and, i can't go in to browse mode with w/e, it says browse mode
> not availavle, no matter where i go, i have w/e set to go into browse
> mode with ctrl shft a, shood i re install w/e?  thanks
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Re: Synthesizer question

[David via Talk]

Unless memory should fail me totally, Eloquence was in its SAPI version, 
way up to WE6.2. When WE7.0 came out, the dedicated version of Eloquence 
was the rule of the day.


If you will happen to have an installation CD for any version prior to 
WE7, you will find the Eloquence files there.


When inserting the CD, let Setup start. When prompted to choose your 
method of installation, you have to go under Advanced. I seem to 
remember you had to press V, or maybe Alt-V. There you would find the 
voice installation, which could be run without having to install the 
whole screen reader, which of course would overwrite your current 
version and cause you a rather heavy headache.


The above is all taken from memory, so forebare with me, should any of 
it be slightly out of range.



David

On 4/21/2017 11:08 PM, Loy via Talk wrote:
> These used to be included in older versions of Window Eyes, I don't remember 
> the version of WE where the Eloquence voices were changed to WE only versions.
>- Original Message -
>From: Bob Tinney via Talk
>To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
>Sent: Friday, April 21, 2017 5:00 PM
>Subject: Synthesizer question
>
>
>Hi,
>
>
>On my desktop computer I have some Speech Works Eloquence voices.  They
>are sapi 5 voices and I like them.
>
>
>I don't remember downloading them, and they are not on my laptop.  Where
>can I find these voices?
>
>
>--
>
>Bob, K8LR, tinn...@charter.net
>
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Virtual CD software

[David via Talk]

Listers,

I need a software to create a Virtual CD on my hard drive, since I do 
not have any CDs ready, and the stuff I am working with needs to go all 
the long way around a CD.


I used to have a Virtual CD software on one of my older PCs, but cannot 
remember what the name was. Just know it used to be somehow accessible 
with WinEyes of the days.


Would any of you have a suggestion for an accessible Virtual CD 
software? I would prefer something free, since it is rarely I need it, 
but would be willing to go for some low-cost product if necessary.


Thanks for all feedback.


-- 
David

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Re: App updates

[David via Talk]

Not so. I tried it, and the only app that comes up as outdated, is the 
Hourly Chime. Once that single app was updated, no more outdated apps. 
So how come the initial poster told us he had something like 20 updates? 
Something on his computer.


and yes, I did exactly use the AppGet feature and the Outdated view.


Have tried it several times, and it reports no outdated apps. Even if 
this is first attempt in about a month. So just wondering the whole thing.


David

On 4/19/2017 6:45 AM, Chris Skarstad via Talk wrote:
> The way I got mine was through the AppGet script. You can press 
> windows key g and get a list of scripts.  press alt plus v in the view 
> menu, and arrow down to outdated. then you can see a list of apps you 
> have that are out-of-date.  Hope this helps!
>
>
>
>
> On 4/19/2017 12:25 AM, Robert Grimwood via Talk wrote:
>> So why am I not being offered app updates? How do I get them now?
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Robert
>>
>>
>>
>> On 4/18/2017 11:34 PM, Chris Skarstad via Talk wrote:
>>> These are window-eyes app updates, guys. this is not any different 
>>> than normal.  i am certain that almost everyone on this list is 
>>> familiar with window-eyes appsthis is just that, updates of 
>>> associated window-eyes apps that have all mentions of GW Micro 
>>> removed, and are replaced with the name AI squared instead.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 4/18/2017 5:45 PM, Stephen Clark via Talk wrote:
 Same here. Something doesn't sound right. Besides, as another 
 lister pointed out, WE is not even owned by GW Micro.


 On 4/18/2017 9:33 AM, Russ Kiehne via Talk wrote:
> I haven't received any Window-eyes updates in a long time!
>
> -Original Message- From: Rod Hutton via Talk
> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 2:17 PM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Subject: App updates
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm not sure whether anyone has noticed, but many, if not all of 
> the GW Micro apps are being updated to reflect the merge with AI 
> Squared.
>
> Hth,
>
> Rod
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Re: App updates

[David via Talk]

But, how come?


AISquared? I do see the latest version of Window-Eyes also states that. 
If the new owner is VFO, why not have it updated to stating VFO?


Am I missing something, or is this simply yet another of the "server 
issues" of the new company?

David

On 4/19/2017 12:34 AM, Chris Skarstad via Talk wrote:
> These are window-eyes app updates, guys. this is not any 
> different than normal.  i am certain that almost everyone on this list 
> is familiar with window-eyes appsthis is just that, updates of 
> associated window-eyes apps that have all mentions of GW Micro 
> removed, and are replaced with the name AI squared instead.
>
>
>
>
> On 4/18/2017 5:45 PM, Stephen Clark via Talk wrote:
>> Same here. Something doesn't sound right. Besides, as another lister 
>> pointed out, WE is not even owned by GW Micro.
>>
>>
>> On 4/18/2017 9:33 AM, Russ Kiehne via Talk wrote:
>>> I haven't received any Window-eyes updates in a long time!
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: Rod Hutton via Talk
>>> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 2:17 PM
>>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
>>> Subject: App updates
>>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> I'm not sure whether anyone has noticed, but many, if not all of the 
>>> GW Micro apps are being updated to reflect the merge with AI Squared.
>>>
>>> Hth,
>>>
>>> Rod
>>> ___
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>>> the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>>
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>>
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Re: 9.5.4 very unstable on my HP desktop

[David via Talk]

Alt-B, to open the bookmarks list in Firefox. Never had WinEyes crashing 
because of that, and don't experience any real sluggishness in arrowing 
up and down the list of bookmarks. Then again, I have never been using 
the other approach you described. But for a test, why don't you try 
accessing your bookmarks by Alt-B, and see if that could solve some of 
your frustrations?


I always have been using the

David

On 4/17/2017 2:01 AM, net bat via Talk wrote:
> one place that  w e hangs in firefox is when you press control i to 
> open the bookmark list. it hangs every time for a few minutes. and 
> when w e does unhangge  it will do it again.
> one work around is to turn auto load and browse mode off before you 
> open the bookmark list. then w e will continue to work.
> firefox also gets very sluggish when you do not delete your browseing 
> history. w e will take several seconds before it will talk when you 
> arrow down a web page to read it or w e  can not be stopped from 
> talking until it finishes reading the lines you just arrowed down too.
> once i deleted the browseing history, cache , forms etc. the 
> sluggisheness disapeared. i have had to do this about once per month.
>
> -Original Message- From: Rod Hutton via Talk
> Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2017 4:45 PM
> To: Donald L. Roberts ; Window-Eyes DiscussionList
> Subject: RE: 9.5.4 very unstable on my HP desktop
>
> Hi Don,
>
> I echo Netbat's suggestion of patience for the page to fully load, but 
> I would add that my preferred browser is Mozilla Firefox, which I find 
> to be less unstable in general.
>
> Hth,
>
> Rod
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk 
> [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
> Behalf Of Donald L. Roberts via Talk
> Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2017 6:32 PM
> To: t...@window-eyes.com
> Subject: 9.5.4 very unstable on my HP desktop
>
> I am writing to inquire whether other list members have observed
> significant instability with Window-Eyes 9.5.4 especially on web pages.
> I have an HP desktop running Windows 10 Creator edition.  This
> instability was also present with previous windows versions,
> specifically 8.1 and Windows 10 anniversary and also 1507.  So it may
> well be something unique to this machine.
>
>
> It is almost the norm rather than the exception that Window-eyes will
> crash whenever I launch a web page or search for something on a page,
> such that I will then have to restart using alt control w.  I often have
> to launch Jaws 16 to get the job done.  Today, for example I went to
> wal-mart.com to search for an RCA Galileo Pro.  The main Wal-mart page
> loaded without incident, and I got to the search box without
> difficulty.  But as soon as I hit control shift f and typed RCA Galileo
> Pro and hit enter, Window-eyes crashed.
>
>
> Are any of you listers experiencing anything comparable?
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> Don Roberts
>
>
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Re: Window-Eyes still has a few tricks up its sleeve. Don't give up on it yet!

[David via Talk]

Hey, that was new to me, but sure I can confirm the behavior in thunderbird.


Funny.


Guess this is the newest on the scientific stem. Blind people will 
comprehend twice as good, if the text is read out to them bottom and up. 
Just wonder why it does not read the words backward. I mean, first we 
are having our fun. Smiles.


On 4/1/2017 1:11 AM, Carol and Roger via Talk wrote:
> Hi Folks,
>
> You might find this interesting.  I was reading an email just now by 
> screen.  I paged down and didn't hear where I left off, so paged up to 
> pick up the rest of the text.  It started reading at the last point I 
> had heard and read by line to the top of the email, from the place I 
> had last read.  I didn't believe it would read from bottom to top, so 
> I tried it again and it did the same thing.  I just thought I would 
> pass on my experience, grin.  I can duplicate this in any email that 
> is longer than one screen by going to the bottom of the email and 
> pressing the page up key.  It will begin with the last line and read 
> one line at a time until it reaches the top of the screen.  Have a 
> good weekend, all.
>
> Carol
>
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Re: Question About Java

[David via Talk]

Been so long since I had Java on any of my machines. But memory serves 
me, that you can use the Ninite installer for installing Java. Should 
take away alot of the issues in the installation process.


You further might need to activate the JavaBridge, from inside WE, for 
the screen reader to function with the Java application. Last time I had 
the solution installed, I seem to remember there would still be parts of 
Java applications that were only so much accessible. As with any other 
applications on the market these days, also with Java, you never can 
tell how well things work, until you try the actual software. The screen 
reader might only work, in cases where the Java-based application has 
been written in a manner that opens for accessibility. One of the 
reasons why things like OpenOffice does not work too well with Win-Eyes.


Again, things might have changed, but you want to be prepared.




David

On 3/29/2017 5:28 PM, Rod Hutton via Talk wrote:
> Hi Bob,
>
> You should be fine installing Java and using Java applications.
> Testing the Java install has always been tricky, since it uses a web page, on 
> which the status of the installation was presented.
> The page had an activex control which often didn't properly run and so you 
> were left hoping everything went okay.
> At least, this was my past experience using the Java installer.
> Anyway, the success of the installation could always be verified by testing 
> the application upon which it is base, namely, Java.
> Therefore, when asked to verified the installation, which his recommended 
> right after installation, you can just skip this step.
>
> Hth,
>
> Rod
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
> On Behalf Of Robert Ringwald via Talk
> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2017 9:41 AM
> To: Talk 
> Subject: Question About Java
>
> Windows 10
> Window-Eyes 9.5.4
> WLM
>
> in order to listen to remote receivers on ham radio, I need Java.
>
> Is there any problem running Java with WE 9.5.4?
>
>
> Bob Ringwald piano, Solo, Duo, Trio, Quartet, Quintet
> Fulton Street Jazz Band (Dixieland/Swing)
> 916/ 806-9551
> Amateur (ham) Radio Station K6YBV
>
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Re: How do I turn off NVDA

[David via Talk]

Insert-Q. Probably you will hav to confirm the NVDA exit.


Alternatively, Ctrl-Escape, arrow down to NVDA, and kill it with Alt-E.



David

On 3/21/2017 5:33 PM, Van Lant, Robin via Talk wrote:
> Window Eyes is my primary screen reader, but I have NVDA loaded as a backup.  
> I accidentally turned on NVDA, but cannot figure out how to turn it off so I 
> can go back to Window Eyes.  Someone please remind me how to do this.  I'm 
> not seeing NVDA in the system tray and cannot alt tab to it.
>
>
>
>
>
> Robin Van Lant | Sr. Program Manager
> Strategy & Performance Management | Key Equipment Finance
> 720-304-1060 | robin_van_l...@key.com
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Re: program that will allow you to restore your volume configurations

[David via Talk]

Please correct me, should I be wrong. And maybe I do not understand your 
issue totally.


Far as I know, Win-Eyes always will fall back to your default sound 
card. Meaning, if you unplug your USB card, the built-in, onboard card 
will be the one used for output.


Furthermore, a handful of versions back, it occurs to me, that WinEyes 
got a new feature implemented. Whenever you restart the screen reader 
will automatically attempt to unmute your sound card. Have not tested 
it, but that is what I have been under the impression would be the case.


Again, with all chances of being wrong, I will be glad to be corrected 
on this, should anyone have different information on the matter.


On 3/11/2017 9:20 AM, Larry Higgins via Talk wrote:
> Dennis, I'm actually hoping that someone can provide an affirmative 
> answer to your question due to an issue I ran into the other day.
>
> My sound card is an on board Realtek on a Dell machine, but my hi def 
> monitor has an output device that WE will use, but it seems that if I 
> go to mute the thing that I lose speak altogether, and have to grope 
> and hope in relocating my settings for my default card if I have need 
> to return to my default card.
>
> I just thought it would be convenient to go this rout whenever I might 
> wish to record using stereo mix so that I wouldn't be recording WE 
> output at the same time.
>
> I guess this wouldn't be a problem as long as I can remember not to 
> ever mute the thing, but if either I accidentally do mute the card, or 
> if some other unknown issue should crop up, I would like to have a 
> quick and sure solution toward regaining speech.
>
> So, if anybody has a possible solution to this one, at least two of us 
> would definitely appreciate it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Larry
>
> On 3/10/2017 2:02 PM, Dennis Long via Talk wrote:
>> Hi, I am wondering if there is a program that will let you save your 
>> current
>> configurations and restore them with a hot key if your volume or default
>> sound card  gets changed?
>>
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>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
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Re: ZoomText Fusion

[David via Talk]

And? Next thing we hear, is that upcoming versions of Window-Eyes, will 
be powered by Jaws.


Smiles. Just some puzzling fun.



On 3/8/2017 2:38 AM, Loy via Talk wrote:
> Doug from AISquared told me a while back that the next version of Fusion 
> would be powered by JAWS.
>- Original Message -
>From: Vaughan Dodd via Talk
>To: 'Singing Sparrow' ; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
>Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2017 8:14 PM
>Subject: RE: ZoomText Fusion
>
>
>Whilst I can't add to this specific topic directly, apart from agreeing 
> with comments made so far - I do note the absence to date of news regarding 
> Window-Eyes developments.  Fusion was promoted at last year's CSUN by Ai 
> Squared.
>
>I do need to check for new blogs and podcasts, but surely something from 
> AI Squared?
>
>
>Vaughan.
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Talk 
> [mailto:talk-bounces+vaughan.dodd001=msd.govt...@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
> Behalf Of Singing Sparrow via Talk
>Sent: Wednesday, 8 March 2017 2:11 p.m.
>To: Reeva Webb; Window-Eyes Discussion List; Russ Kiehne
>Subject: Re: ZoomText Fusion
>
>I would like to know this as well; Since window eyes was the one that 
> ordginally was used for the fusion?
>
>
>On 3/7/2017 8:54 AM, Reeva Webb via Talk wrote:
>> I refuse to upgrade my zt fusion. They taking away neospeech kate.  i'm
>> trying not to go on swear word filled rant.   Making backup copies for 
> sure.
>>
>>
>> "the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
>> night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho
>>
>> Reeva
>>
>> On Mar 7, 2017 8:14 AM, "Russ Kiehne via Talk" 
> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I see that a new version of ZoomText Fusion will be released next month.
>>> this version which combines ZoomText and JAWS for Windows.  How will 
> this
>>> effect people using ZoomText Fusion  using Window-Eyes?
>>> ___
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Re: Windows Eyes 9.5.4.0 - Desktop icons not read.

[David via Talk]

That is, what if they want all the computers in the classroom having an 
equal setup. I mean, not just for the desktop and treeview reading, but 
all across the board.


In such a case, take one of the "working" computers, and copy the GW 
Profile Folder, onto a portable media. Then go to one of the "troubled" 
computers, and copy in the ported profile folder. Restart WE, and all 
the settings apps and so forth, now will be exactly the same on both 
machines. Repeat the procedure on any trouble-machine, and enjoy all 
your students running an equal setup.


Should you, for whatever reason decide to have different setup on the 
individual machines, you might go about it the way Rod suggested. Still, 
I would have thought copying the Explorer.Set file from one of the 
working machines, might have taken care of the issue at stake.



On 3/1/2017 1:36 PM, Rod Hutton via Talk wrote:
> Hi,
>
> In the WE control panel, if you open the File menu and select Factory 
> Settings, pressing W will bring you down to Window-Eyes user interface.
> If you then tab over to the Install button, you can re-install the default 
> set filees so that the Window-Eyes control panel will track properly.
> If you notice the set files associated with this option, this should also 
> re-install a number of set files, such as the global settings which are 
> contained in wineyes.set.
> I believe you'll need to confirm overwriting the settings in order to proceed.
> In order to reload the settings properly, you'll need to shut down WE and 
> then restart it.
>   If this works on one PC, then you'll have to do the grunt work and repeat 
> the process for all your affected computers.
> Sorry, there's no easy way. (smile)
>
> Hth,
>
> Rod
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
> On Behalf Of Support via Talk
> Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2017 6:27 AM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
> Subject: RE: Windows Eyes 9.5.4.0 - Desktop icons not read.
>
> Hi Rod
> Thanks for the reply.
> Explorer.set is the active set.
> Something that I have noticed now - not using the mouse but the keyboard to 
> navigate the WE tree is that it also does not read the tree entries.
> Using the mouse it does read the entries.
> Thanks for the assist.
>
> Hi,
> If you focus the desktop, and then call up the WE control panel using 
> Control-backslash, is explorer.set the active set file?
> If not, then we can proceed to associate this set file with the desktop.
> hth,
> Rod
>
>
> Thanks Nick
> That is kind of part of the problem, pressing Windows/d gets me to the 
> desktop but then instead of reading the desktop icons WE reads the tooltips 
> but not the icons.
> If I move the mouse over the icon it works fine.
> If I switch off tooltip reading in WE - I get silence.
>
>
> I don't know if this will help, but I press windows/d when I want to go to my 
> desktop.
>
> On 3/1/2017 4:32 AM, Support via Talk wrote:
>> Hi
>> I recently ran into the following problem.
>> On some of my computers in the classroom WE has stopped reading the desktop 
>> icons.
>> It does however read the tooltips.
>> I don't know if this is just a setting that some of the students have 
>> managed to change or a bug related to a display driver or something else.
>> All the computers in the classroom are the same, and it is only happening on 
>> some of them so I suspect a setting change or hotkey.
>> Hope you can assist.
>> Thanks
>> Support for South African National council for the blind.
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CSUN

[David via Talk]

I see a lot of talking about the upcoming CSun this year. I have heard 
about a few things introduced there back in earlier years.


I was wondering, if anyone here knows if there is going to be some kind 
of a podcast,  or a written article, that in a nutshell would walk those 
of us who have no chance of attending, through all the new stuff on the 
scene. I really wish there would be anything like that, since it would 
help many users to get a touch of what is to be expected for upcoming 
technology in the next few months, once all the new stuff hit the market 
and reaches a place near you.


At least, if any of the list members would attend, do you mind sending 
us a few words about what would be for interesting products on the 
Windows front, or anything that could relate to the current situation. 
Just please spread rumors. If you do not have all the details, that is 
fine. We just want to have a peek under the hood, as to what is new out 
there. If you could pick up any links of further info, that might be 
just as fine.


If such info usually is posted any other place, would anyone please 
point me to where I can get it?


-- 

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Re: SOMETHING STRANGE ON AMAZON.COM

[David via Talk]

Not on Amazon myself, so would be a general guess.


Seems like they are performing some kind of security checking on you. 
Some websites do this kind of checking once in a while, on arbitrarily 
customers. Hopefully they do not intend to do this every time you log on 
to their services, in the coming.


First thing I would do, is to go to the address bar of the browser, and 
just make sure it really is an Amazon address. This just to ensure you 
have not been hi-jacked, and redirected to some fake service.


Next, you could try accessing the site, from Firefox with WebVisum. If 
this is a mere periodic check you should be able to logon using the 
captcha once, and then be good to go from any browser later on. Is it, 
on the other hand, a newwly introduced standard routine of theirs, you 
might have to permanently log on to their services from now on, with 
Firefox.


Does Amazon have any customer care service line, either by phone or 
mail? If so, it could be worth to contact them, and ask if they have any 
solution in place for visually impaired people.


HTH,

David

On 2/13/2017 2:20 AM, Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk 
wrote:
> Hi Great Folks:
>
> I tried accessing amazon.com inter alia and got the following:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   
> Enter the characters you see below
>
> Sorry, we just need to make sure you're not a robot. For best results,
> please make sure your browser is accepting cookies.
>
>
>
>
>   
>
>
>
> Type the characters you see in this image:
>
>   
>
>
>
>
>
> Try different image
>   
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Has anyone else experienced this?  I'm on a Windows7 64Bit computer running
> IE11!  And as you can see, NO AUDIO equivalent was provided and thus I COULD
> NOT solve the CAPTCHA.
>
> Sincerely,
> Olusegun
> Denver, Colorado
>   
>
>
>
> ---
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Re: PDF issues

[David via Talk]

Since you state NVDA will read them, they apparently hold text, not just 
scanned images. I have seen numerous samples of the same behavior, which 
in rality have lead me to stop using Adobe in my daily activity. I find 
that those documents, typically will open in things like QRead, and 
there WE will read them well enough. What's more, often the layout of 
the document will be somehow better in QRead.


Other PDF readers out there, might have similar beneficial effect. QRead 
for one, is not exactly free, but low-cost enough, that it proved worth 
the money to buy a license.


Several years ago, I bought a license for a PDF-To-Text converter, think 
it was from a company named something like ABC Software, but cannot find 
the software, nor the license here now. Back then, that was the better 
solution.


Adobe has been on and off, when comes to reliability - from my 
experience. They release one version, and for a while everything works 
wonderfully well. Then comes a new version, or at least you start 
getting new PDF files, and everything seem broken. Who is the 
bottleneck, I do not know. As a user though, I am lost. Could it be the 
Adobe, the PDF file, the screen reader - or simply just the combination. 
For the more recent year and a half, QRead has been my solution. It will 
stay, till it no longer solves the issue, or something better comes 
around for handling PDF documents.


One clear drawback with QRead - or any other converting software - is 
that you cannot fill-in things like a PDF form. Another disadvantage is 
that they do not let you print the document. Nuance, the former 
Scansoft, has something they name PaperPort, which is told to give you 
all flexibility with PDF documents. To what extent it will work with a 
screen reader, would be nice to know if anyone has any experience. Then 
again, it does cost a chunk.


On 2/11/2017 1:44 AM, Don H via Talk wrote:
> I find a lot of pdf documents that will open in adobe reader that WE 
> will only say top and bottom and not read what is displayed on the 
> screen.  The only remedy I have found so far is to use NVDA instead of 
> WE to read these files.  Is theere a way to get WE to read them?
> Running latest WE ona Win 10 system.
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Re: WinEyes and licensing

[David via Talk]

.


If now all those other manufacturers have been able to go multi, why is 
it the screen reader never did? The others had to face Copyright issues 
as well, didn't they? If VFO gives all languages away for free, why then 
the restrictions when you pay?


OK, won't drill any more on this. Judging from a handful messages 
received, it seems I was right in one assumption. Most English users are 
not aware all the restrictions posed onto locale versions. And so my 
initial idea was just to point out that such restrictions do exist. And 
John, you mention Europe. For one, I definitely am sitting in Europe 
right now, writing this.


On 2/4/2017 12:52 PM, John Farley wrote:
> David,
>
> North America and most of Europe, including the UK can run Window-Eyes
> without authentication on each occasion that the version being used is
> correctly licenced. That is, without a dongle or other mechanical means of
> licence authentication. This may also be the case in Australia and New
> Zealand, but I am not too sure of that. There may be a Knowledge Base item
> which details where this applies.
>
> This was done originally as there are many parts of the world outside of the
> North American continent where software piracy, or euphemistically software
> sharing, is rife.
>
> Software producers, not just GW-Micro, follow such a practice in order to
> protect their income stream, which is a perfectly valid think to do.
>
> As far as the accent of the speech is concerned I have most of my speech
> output set to use UK English, although I need to accept the use of an
> American accent for the Window-Eyes elements of the speech output.
> Like the UK the USA has many localised accents in use in pronouncing the
> spoken word.
> Most people can accept the use of such localised accents.
>
> The real difference in the use of English between our two continents is the
> simplified spelling of many words used in the USA as opposed to that being
> used in the UK, where the spellings originated from (smile).
>
>
>
> Regards, John
>
> Tel: +44 (0) 1442 259243
> Mob: +44 (0) 7815 056076
>
>
>
> -Original Message-----
> From: Talk
> [mailto:talk-bounces+john_farley=btinternet@lists.window-eyes.com] On
> Behalf Of David via Talk
> Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2017 12:30 AM
> To: Loy; Window-Eyes Discussion List; Pamela Dominguez
> Subject: Re: WinEyes and licensing
>
> Nope. All messages, menus and so forth, will be in ONE, and only ONE
> language. The voices are there only to let you read other languages.
>
>
> Yet, say you have turned on Eloquence french, due to you mainly working
> with French documents and websites. If your WinEyes is installed under
> an English license, all the WinEyes produced messages, will be send as
> English phrases to a French synthesizer. Try for a moment yourself, and
> see what it all will sound like.
>
>
> You don't think there are all that many phrases, so it can't be that
> much of an issue? Well, try to scroll down a website. All the screen
> reader produced messages like:
>
>   Link,
>
>   Paragraph,
>
>   Combobox,
>
>   Editbox,
>
>   Read-Only,
>
> and so forth, are send in the language of your screen reader
> installation, no matter which language is supported by your currently
> chosen voice.
>
>
> Or, try it under your favorite Email program. The phrases like:
>
>   Read,
>
>   Unread,
>
>   Attachment,
>
> And so on, again are send in the language of your installation. Try to
> listen too a Spanish voice, or an Italian one, pronounce the English
> phrases. Judge for yourself.
>
>
> Been the trouble with WE for all times, that they never understood
> people could have more than one language, and would need to switch
> several times in a day. Hey all you Canadians, you would at least know
> what it means to read more than one language.
>
>
> Greatest thing would be if they could release a multi-lingual license -
> holding all supported languages. And now, if they then could let it even
> be set to switch automatically to the language supported by the
> currently active synth, they would have done a great job. But all my
> requests for such features, have been met with loads of excuses and
> words about being unable, due to licensing and worries of piracy. Not
> sure what would make such a multi-lingual version more vulnerable to
> piracy, but that is the explanation GW has been offering me for the last
> decade.
>
>
> Well, just wanted to illustrate a point for you all. Other International
> and non-English users will know what i am talking about, and may be able
> to offer you more illustrative cases.
>
>
> Yet, may I ask you who 

Re: WinEyes and licensing

[David via Talk]

Nope. All messages, menus and so forth, will be in ONE, and only ONE 
language. The voices are there only to let you read other languages.


Yet, say you have turned on Eloquence french, due to you mainly working 
with French documents and websites. If your WinEyes is installed under 
an English license, all the WinEyes produced messages, will be send as 
English phrases to a French synthesizer. Try for a moment yourself, and 
see what it all will sound like.


You don't think there are all that many phrases, so it can't be that 
much of an issue? Well, try to scroll down a website. All the screen 
reader produced messages like:

 Link,

 Paragraph,

 Combobox,

 Editbox,

 Read-Only,

and so forth, are send in the language of your screen reader 
installation, no matter which language is supported by your currently 
chosen voice.


Or, try it under your favorite Email program. The phrases like:

 Read,

 Unread,

 Attachment,

And so on, again are send in the language of your installation. Try to 
listen too a Spanish voice, or an Italian one, pronounce the English 
phrases. Judge for yourself.


Been the trouble with WE for all times, that they never understood 
people could have more than one language, and would need to switch 
several times in a day. Hey all you Canadians, you would at least know 
what it means to read more than one language.


Greatest thing would be if they could release a multi-lingual license - 
holding all supported languages. And now, if they then could let it even 
be set to switch automatically to the language supported by the 
currently active synth, they would have done a great job. But all my 
requests for such features, have been met with loads of excuses and 
words about being unable, due to licensing and worries of piracy. Not 
sure what would make such a multi-lingual version more vulnerable to 
piracy, but that is the explanation GW has been offering me for the last 
decade.


Well, just wanted to illustrate a point for you all. Other International 
and non-English users will know what i am talking about, and may be able 
to offer you more illustrative cases.


Yet, may I ask you who are all English-speaking users, how would you 
accept if I released a screen reader that gave all its menus and 
internal messages in German? So every time you browsed the net, or every 
time you pressed the Ctrl-Home in a text document, you got the phrases 
from the screen reader, with German text pronounced by your English 
voice? Here, let me save you all the hazzle. Simply let your current 
English voice read the following messages, and imagine your day being 
filled with this kind of working conditions. Then, you please come back 
and tell me how many of you would pay for the product. Smile.


nur-Lese,
Eingabefeld für den,
ungelesen,
Lesen,
Anlage,
Anfang des Dokuments,
Zeilenende.


On 2/4/2017 12:55 AM, Loy via Talk wrote:
> Window Eyes paid version comes  with synthesizers in  multi languages. Don't 
> know if the program is in other languages or not.
>- Original Message -
>From: Pamela Dominguez via Talk
>To: David ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>Sent: Friday, February 3, 2017 6:27 PM
>Subject: Re: WinEyes and licensing
>
>
>I didn't know we only get one language.  I was lead to believe that all the
>languages were in there and we could choose whatever language we wanted to
>install.  Pam.
>
>-----Original Message-
>From: David via Talk
>Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 3:29 PM
>To: Vaughan Dodd ; Window-Eyes Discussion List ; 'Don Smith'
>Subject: WinEyes and licensing
>
>Vaughn,
>I just wanted to hook on to one point you made. And that is the one
>about the free Office Offer of WinEyes, in comparison with the paid-for
>versions.
>You said:
>
> "
>
>Part of my complaint is that the Window-Eyes for Office programme, which is
>free to those who use it, get permanent access to the full install, but
>paying customers do not."
>
>(End Of Quote).
>
>See, if you happen to own one of the required versions of Office, you
>can download WinEyes in English, German, french or Norwegian, or any of
>the other supported languages. Do you fork out enough money to pay for
>your screen reader, you all the sudden are forced, bound and locked to
>ONLY one language; even if you are in want of a change down the road. In
>addition, you are told that now, since you paid for the product, you no
>longer can install it on how many computers you want. Oh no, now you
>have a limit to your installations - at least in parts of the world. The
>reason, that is given from GWMicro and up, is that if they let you
>install an English copy of WinEyes on a computer located in Scandinavia,
>tha

Re: Just in passing

[David via Talk]

Matthew,

Am I correct in assuming, you happen to be from the North-Americas? Then 
it is likely you got your hard-copy installation disk quickly. But for 
oversea users, the lengthy delivery time, has long been an issue. Not 
sure if the oversea disks will have to be requested from the local 
dealers, who then will have to wait for some downloadable from VFO, and 
then burn it to a disk and ship it out. Or, maybe VFO in the USA has to 
burn and ship the disk to the dealer, who then ships it to you locally. 
All I know, is that in my case, we have had to order the hard-copy disk 
from the local dealer, and it sure takes weeks for it to arrive. If I 
want a downloadable, I have to manually request it from either the 
dealer or the VFO directly, and even then it takes a few days before I 
can get the link - which, like Vaughan pointed out, has a rather limited 
time-scope for downloading.


On 2/2/2017 8:49 PM, Matthew Chao via Talk wrote:
> Got my DVD within a few days.--Matthew Chao
>
>
>
>
> On 2/2/2017 2:23 PM, Vaughan Dodd via Talk wrote:
>> Hi Don.
>>
>> Glad that at least one paying customer is getting a level of support 
>> that should be expected.
>>
>> My experience is frustrating.
>>
>> I no longer request the DVD, as the last one took more than six weeks 
>> to arrive.  I like the option of requesting a personalised 
>> downloadable edition of the full release.
>>
>> My grumpiness with this is that I recently asked for an extension of 
>> the period before my serialised link expired.  I've been given 36 
>> hours from two different sources.IN other words - two 
>> personalised links, each available to me separately for 36 hours.
>>
>> I have laid a complaint with the AI Squared sales people.
>>
>> The Window-Eyes specific technical support has gone.  The second link 
>> I received which expired (as did the first one) before I opened the 
>> email came from VFO technical support.  The physical address is in St 
>> Petersburg.  Surely: it would have made sense to rationalise sales 
>> ahead of technical support, and emails from all over the place direct 
>> me to GW Micro.com - what a lovely place that once was!
>>
>> Part of my complaint is that the Window-Eyes for Office programme, 
>> which is free to those who use it, get permanent access to the full 
>> install, but paying customers do not.
>>
>> Don: agree with you that VFO is a funnyt name.  Why is it not VFOA, 
>> so that AI Squared is acknowledged.
>>
>> In polite company: VFO stands for "very frustrating organisation" and 
>> in less genteel gatherings, substitute frustrating for another 
>> adjective.
>>
>>
>> Vaughan.
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Talk 
>> [mailto:talk-bounces+vaughan.dodd001=msd.govt...@lists.window-eyes.com] 
>> On Behalf Of Don Smith via Talk
>> Sent: Thursday, 2 February 2017 5:26 p.m.
>> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
>> Subject: Just in passing
>>
>> Hi Folks:
>>
>> First, I think fo is the strangest name for a company that I have 
>> ever heard.
>>
>>
>> However, I called the other day to purchase a cd with win eyes on it 
>> and although, it seemed they were a little muddled at first, but, 
>> then put me on to another person.
>>
>> They were busy and I left a message re my request thinking would they 
>> take care of it.
>>
>> Well got a call today and all is ok, the cd is being sent and that is 
>> to Canada
>>
>> Don
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>
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>>
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>> List archives can be 

WinEyes and licensing

[David via Talk]

Vaughn,
I just wanted to hook on to one point you made. And that is the one 
about the free Office Offer of WinEyes, in comparison with the paid-for 
versions.
You said:

 "

Part of my complaint is that the Window-Eyes for Office programme, which is 
free to those who use it, get permanent access to the full install, but paying 
customers do not."

(End Of Quote).

See, if you happen to own one of the required versions of Office, you 
can download WinEyes in English, German, french or Norwegian, or any of 
the other supported languages. Do you fork out enough money to pay for 
your screen reader, you all the sudden are forced, bound and locked to 
ONLY one language; even if you are in want of a change down the road. In 
addition, you are told that now, since you paid for the product, you no 
longer can install it on how many computers you want. Oh no, now you 
have a limit to your installations - at least in parts of the world. The 
reason, that is given from GWMicro and up, is that if they let you 
install an English copy of WinEyes on a computer located in Scandinavia, 
that would lead to people making pirate copies. Huh? sorry, but how come 
the Free Offer does not lead to piracy? Since they can give it away in 
all languages, why can't they give the paid-for customers free choice of 
languages? In fact, why not simply release ONE version of WinEyes, 
holding a setting that determines which language would be the active 
one, at any given time. Other manufacturers can, so why has such never 
been an alternative with this screen reader, or with Jaws?

To me, and I guess a few other International users, the whole thing 
becomes even more illogical, all the time the free offer can be 
downloaded and installed in whatever language you might want.

Now that most customer service seem to be gone, at least for the moment, 
I start to wonder what would make people pay for the product. If the 
free offer does give you better functionality and higher choices, and 
the paid-for version no longer receive all that much individual support, 
I really am reluctant to what benefit the 50, 100, or 175 dollar 
upgrades do give us any longer. And the day people stop paying? Is that 
the day they are awaiting, before the plug could be pulled, now fully 
supported by the fact that money stopped coming in?

Sure, some users might feel it is worth to pay, simply due to them 
thereby supporting the further development. But for many users, economy 
is an issue, and when they already have paid who knows how many 
thousands through the years, and now no longer receive much benefit of 
keep paying, where would that take them? My guess is, if they want to 
see the big multitude continue to pay, there might be a need for some 
revision on the whole licensing and offering of the product line. As a 
matter of fact, since you have paid for your product, why give you a 
download window at all? Why not simply give you some kind of a log-in 
credencial, and then let your copy of the product be made available for 
downloading, anytime you might need it in the future? Fact is, they 
already do that with your free upgrades, like the recent one. I haven't 
seen any notice come up, that told me the upgrade would need to be 
downloaded within a given time scope. If you don't upgrade for two 
weeks, the upgrade will be ready for you still. But if you want your 
original, paid-for instalation copy, then you all the sudden are under 
loads of restrictions.

Perhaps I am missing something. But to me this simply does not make 
logic sense. If you are under no real restriction long as you go free, 
why then is it that you are loaded with restrictions any time you pay? 
Shouldn't it be, and isn't it with many other products, the opposite way 
- Freeware with restrictions, and pay to have all your benefits?

Let's just hope, whatever comes next in the way of WinEyes, Jaws, or a 
combined product, that they come up with better licensing terms, which 
to a much higher extent reflects the fact that a great number of users 
now aday are multi-lingual. And let's hope they make it low-cost and 
beneficial, or simply just go free altogether. When NVDA manage to offer 
people greater flexibility, and as time goes by becomes more 
full-fledged, it does pose a stress on the expenses tied to either of 
the mainstream screen readers.

I still feel that a good product deserve its reasonable pricing. As 
such, NVDA has not yet reached the level of becoming a real alternative 
for the more advanced group of users. But WinEyes, Jaws and the rest of 
the mainstream readers, might have to undergo some kind of revision if 
they want to advocate their high pricing. When one and same product can 
be had with better advantages for free, than the paid-for copies, I am 
afraid that is a slow pull of the plug.

OK then, we do not know if something is on its way. Maybe the licensing 
already is being revised. But as things stand today, it makes you wonder 
why not spend 

Extended Dictionary, V0.69.5.1, Important Release Note

[David via Talk]

To all current and potential users of the Extended Dictionary app.


V0.69.5.1 - Release Note.


As all current users of the package has noticed the last few days, the 
package speaks a short license note, at startup. It has been informing 
you that the license time was about to expire. All due to a bug in the 
software.


The Extended Dictionary package now has been updated, the bug fixed, and 
the license period been prolonged considerably for all parts of the 
package. All users will need to update their Extended Dictionary 
installation, should you want to continue using the app.


Due to technical issues, I have been unable to upload the updated WEPM 
file to the App Central, all weekend. I will be dealing with the issues 
of the upload as time permits. Yet, I want you all to get your free copy 
of the updated package immediately. It therefore has been released 
outside App Central, and can be downloaded from the link below.


Notice:

To stop any speculations, the technical issues I am experiencing with 
upload to App Central, has nothing to do with any merging of GW, 
AISquared and VFO.


You find the newest version of the extended Dictionary here, and may 
want to keep this link, as it will be used for future versions in 
release as well:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c4eipguo23a1jrr/Extended_Dictionary.wepm?dl=0


Please contact me directly, should you have any further issues, 
questions or good ideas.


-- 
David
(Author of the
Extended Dictionary
for Window-Eyes Screen Reader)

___
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