Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] Getting historic information about usage of a node
On 16/09/09 01:54, Peter Körner wrote: You would basically have to do something like: - Find that node version in the nodes table to get the timestamp (or changeset?), right? Yes, to get the timestamp. Actually you probably need to get the next version of the node (if any) as well so you have a range of timestamps when that version of the node was active. - Find all way versions which have ever included that node in the way_nodes table As way_nodes does not contain timestamp (changeset) infos you'll have to find *all versions* of *all ways* that ever contained that node, but for most of the nodes this is not too much i think (guessed: 10 ways in 30 versions, so in worst case 300 items to do an integer comparison on, 10 in best case) Exactly - it's not too bad from a database point of view, as way_nodes does have an index on node_id. - Look up those way versions in the ways table and match the timestamps against the node to see if they were using that version of the node or not You must go for all ways and get their timestamp (or changeset?) and compare it with the timestamp (changeset?) the version of that node was changed. Yes - you want to consider each way version that you found in the previous step and see if it's lifetime overlaps with that of the node. Once again you will need to fetch the next version as well to get the timestamp for the end of that way versions lifetime. This is no trivial task, I see. However there are some optimizations that could be done to make this a little faster: - maybe you could use changeset-ids rather then timestamps? I know changesets are no transactions and therefore this would not be as accurate as with timestamps but if it's faster it would be good enough for me ;) I'm not sure using changesets (a) will work and (b) helps. The problem is that I'm not sure how well ordered changesets are before the 0.6 API started and even after that transactions and overlapping changes might produce weird effects. I don't think it will speed anything up anyway, so there probably isn't any point. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] Abstract on getting historic information about usage of a node
On 16/09/09 15:17, Peter Körner wrote: == Decisions == The Choice that is up to be made now is between the following three possibilities a) do not implement these calls b) implement them on demand c) implement them with a new column/index [ snipped ] c) this will cost disk-space and memory for the index. The CPU time will be consumed only once. This is NOT true. As I explained yesterday there is a very good reason why we do not store a node revision in current_way_nodes and way_nodes. The problem is that if you do that then every time a node is changed you have to go and find every way which uses that node and update it to use the new version of the node. So it costs CPU time every time a node is changed. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Which OSMF Member Do I Talk To...
On 11/09/09 19:00, Ian Dees wrote: Since the Foundation's website seems to be down [0] and the Foundation's wiki page isn't very clear [1], I am wondering if someone on the list could answer a quick question for me: It should be back now - there was a problem with it but Grant is on site and has just bought it back up. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Google Street View copyright question
On 09/09/09 11:46, Roy Wallace wrote: On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Jonathan Bennettopenstreet...@jonno.cix.co.uk wrote: There's a difference between using one fact from a newspaper article, and systematically extracting data from a database to reuse in another database. Is there a difference between 1) using one fact from a newspaper article to use in another database, and 2) using one fact from a database to use in another database? Can you clarify exactly what that difference is why one is legal while the other is not (if that is indeed what you're implying)? Because (in the EU) Database Right kicks in and prohibits substantial extraction. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Google Street View copyright question
On 09/09/09 11:55, Tom Hughes wrote: On 09/09/09 11:46, Roy Wallace wrote: On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Jonathan Bennettopenstreet...@jonno.cix.co.uk wrote: There's a difference between using one fact from a newspaper article, and systematically extracting data from a database to reuse in another database. Is there a difference between 1) using one fact from a newspaper article to use in another database, and 2) using one fact from a database to use in another database? Can you clarify exactly what that difference is why one is legal while the other is not (if that is indeed what you're implying)? Because (in the EU) Database Right kicks in and prohibits substantial extraction. I just realised that I misread your question slightly... The correct answer is of course that on their own there is no difference between the two. The problem arises once you copy a few facts, then I copy a few, then Fred copies a few, then Jim, then... At some point we have, between us, copied a substantial extract at which point the database right kicks in. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Google Street View copyright question
On 09/09/09 12:07, Pieren wrote: On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Tom Hughest...@compton.nu wrote: Because (in the EU) Database Right kicks in and prohibits substantial extraction. If someone starts to copy the photos themselves, yes you are right. But here, we speak about reading a street sign on a picture, not copying the picture. Which has exactly what to do with the question I answered, which concerned copying facts from databases? As it happens there is a problem with my answer which I'm about to correct, but it isn't anything to do with photos. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Wiki OpenLayer live examples get 404 not found
On 08/09/09 00:24, Thomas Wood wrote: My apologies, I meant to change the links. Try errol.openstreetmap.org/... Please don't do that, both because it doesn't work and because we don't have to get people used to referring to the machine by that name. You jumped the gun a bit on transferring your home directory to the new machine but I'll see if I can patch things up... Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] lists and # of subscribers
On 04/09/09 23:11, Richard Weait wrote: I hope that exposing the number of subscribers and not the list of names is reasonable and respectful of privacy rights. Thoughts? Is this information that can be easily extracted from mailman and graphed in munin? Munin isn't really well suited to that - it graphs things that change in real time but for something like this you want to look at daily or weekly numbers over a long period. Monthly stats for some lists are sent to Andy which I think he includes in his graphs which are on the wiki somewhere? Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Mailing List Reply To Header
On 03/09/09 11:53, Christoph Boehme wrote: Sylpheed Claws can reply to list as well and Thunderbird has an add-on which adds the command [1]. Thunderbird 3 has it built in. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Mailing List Reply To Header
On 03/09/09 12:28, John Smith wrote: I hope the reply to changes, if for nothing else than to be inclusionary of new people so they don't have to learn to cope with the self righteousness of others. Can we get the reply to on this and the talk-au list and the dev list changed please. Look people. This is, and has been for the 16 years that I have been reading email, a holy war issue (just like vi vs emacs etc) and whatever you do the other side will just complain. Frankly I long ago gave up caring - it's impossible to please everybody so there is no point in trying. Yes I could change it, but then in six months we'll have a flood of complaints from the other side of the argument so I really don't see the point. Just learn to live with both setups. I did long ago. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Mailing List Reply To Header
On 03/09/09 12:49, John Smith wrote: 2009/9/3 Tom Hughest...@compton.nu: Yes I could change it, but then in six months we'll have a flood of complaints from the other side of the argument so I really don't see the point. Just learn to live with both setups. I did long ago. You can't exactly take the high road here, reply to headers get munged on other OSM lists, can we please have some consistency, either turn them all on or all off. Each list is managed by a different person, and the settings for the list are entirely up to them. I'm not actually the manager for any of the lists being talked about here but I do have the master password so can in theory change any list. I don't plan to however - I plan to let list owners decide. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Mailing List Reply To Header
On 03/09/09 12:40, Mike N. wrote: The current communications methods are very awkward, particularly when participating in more than one subject. The amount of time to create a new password and sign up is absurd compared to a more typical single sign-on web forum based setup. That's trivial compared to the ongoing per-message cost of reading a forum vs a mailing list. That's why I read mailing lists and ignore web forums - they just take too much time to read. All of which is, of course, supremely irrelevant to the subject under discussion here. We have both mailing lists and forums so people can choose which to use. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools
On 03/09/09 13:32, John Smith wrote: 2009/9/3 Peter Körnerosm-li...@mazdermind.de: You might want to investigate setting up some test scripts to import, edit and then revert data. But do any testing against a test database and not the real thing :-) Hmm the tool I'm working on at the moment will work with tha API and without a local DB, so I'd need a test-api. Do we have such? http://api06.old-dev.openstreetmap.org Er, no... What you want is: http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org (the dev name was redirecting to old-dev for a few days during the transition to the new server but that has now stopped). Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
On 02/09/09 18:51, Peter Körner wrote: Tom Hughes schrieb: On 01/09/09 23:02, Pieren wrote: I'm just questionning myself if I will continue to contribute to OSM if the admins are not able to react faster to something which looks like the worst form of vandalism. As an admin with the technical ability to do these things I'm perfectly capable of reacting quickly once I believe I have legitimate authority to act. I do not however plan to appoint myself as judge, jury and executioner in these matters. But Dermot McNally already pointed out that this *is* vandalism, at least in Ireland: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2009-September/041412.html http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2009-September/041397.html What more do you want? A Plane-Ticket to fly there and check for yourself? Sorry for that.. I'm seeing people doing investigation, finding things are going mad, reporting this - and getting ignored. Not one single person has reported it to the Data Working Group as suggested by the wiki page that has already been referred to. What we are lacking is not people to take action, but mechanisms and people to quickly investigate and make decisions on what action should be take in an appropriate transparent, democratic and legitimate manner. Just as e.g. Dermot McNally did. Yes, but who appointed him as the arbiter? Whoever is making the decision needs to be selected by and accountable to the community in some way, not self-appointed. A group of people demanding that something by done on a mailing list does not, in my mind, constitute a legitimate authority for me to act. What/Who does constitute a legitimate authority for you? Well that's the problem - the best thing we have at the moment is the foundation and it's working groups. In this case the Data Working Group is the appropriate one I guess. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
On 02/09/09 19:55, Dermot McNally wrote: 2009/9/2 Tom Hughest...@compton.nu: Yes, but who appointed him as the arbiter? Whoever is making the decision needs to be selected by and accountable to the community in some way, not self-appointed. FFS Tom, you can't have it both ways. I understand and respect that you don't want the final decision resting, by default, with you as the man with the stick. This being so, you have to be prepared to assess the claims of individual mappers on their merits, having regard to the facts. I absolutely am not going to get involved in evaluating the claims of individual mappers. Both because it would be an inappropriate conflict of interest and because I don't have the time. If the community wants to appoint somebody to do that then that's fine and I will be happy to act on that person's decision. I would not personally vote for such a system however. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
On 01/09/09 09:16, Lester Caine wrote: 2326103 declassifies the A816 from a trunk route to a primary route which CURRENTLY is probably correct ... except - I think that it would be useful to designate http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk as a cross reference for the trunk and primary designations - which then falls flat on it's face since the 'green' routes are classified as 'primary' as opposed to trunk but the A816 is 'non-primary' Unless something has changed in the last few years them at least some parts of the A816 are trunk (in the OSM sense of being primary A roads with green signs). Certainly four segments of the A816 are listed in the data Morwen got from the DfT describing the primary route network. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
On 01/09/09 10:13, Lester Caine wrote: Tom Hughes wrote: On 01/09/09 09:16, Lester Caine wrote: 2326103 declassifies the A816 from a trunk route to a primary route which CURRENTLY is probably correct ... except - I think that it would be useful to designate http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk as a cross reference for the trunk and primary designations - which then falls flat on it's face since the 'green' routes are classified as 'primary' as opposed to trunk but the A816 is 'non-primary' Unless something has changed in the last few years them at least some parts of the A816 are trunk (in the OSM sense of being primary A roads with green signs). Certainly four segments of the A816 are listed in the data Morwen got from the DfT describing the primary route network. I think that probably highlights the point - what is the best REFERENCE for this information? Well in the absence of the DfT information, which was obtained under FOIA and is still copyright so can't be generally passed out, looking at the signs to see if they are white or green is the best solution! Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
On 01/09/09 16:23, Lester Caine wrote: Richard Fairhurst wrote: Tom Hughes wrote: Unless something has changed in the last few years them at least some parts of the A816 are trunk (in the OSM sense of being primary A roads with green signs). Indeed: http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/916074 http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/144953 Which would suggest that the changeset for this needs reversing, although http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=A816 does hint at the fact that it has been 'de-truncked' and that only some green signs remain? I suspect whoever wrote that doesn't understand that de-trunking does not cause it to stop being a primary route. It may well have (indeed almost certainly has) been de-trunked but it is probably still a primary route which means it will have green signs. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
On 01/09/09 23:02, Pieren wrote: I'm just questionning myself if I will continue to contribute to OSM if the admins are not able to react faster to something which looks like the worst form of vandalism. As an admin with the technical ability to do these things I'm perfectly capable of reacting quickly once I believe I have legitimate authority to act. I do not however plan to appoint myself as judge, jury and executioner in these matters. What we are lacking is not people to take action, but mechanisms and people to quickly investigate and make decisions on what action should be take in an appropriate transparent, democratic and legitimate manner. A group of people demanding that something by done on a mailing list does not, in my mind, constitute a legitimate authority for me to act. After all no matter how obvious this or any other case might be in general terms I can't possibly personally determine who is right in any particular case, nor can I set any sort of quorum as to how big the lynch mob on the mailing lists needs to be to trigger action because I can't know if they are people with a legitimate grievance or are indeed just a lynch mob. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] http://gazetteer.openstreetmap.org/namefinder/ broken?
On 31/08/09 18:28, Jon Burgess wrote: It looks like something has changed again on gazetteer which has broken the munin stats which are hosted on the same machine: http://munin.openstreetmap.org/ is now redirecting to the namefinder as well. That's a separate issue which I've just fixed. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] We need a report spam button for diary entries... and to ban accounts repeatedly spamming...
On 28/08/09 09:24, John Smith wrote: 2009/8/28 Thomas Woodgrand.edgemas...@gmail.com: Accounts spamming are banned. They're usually caught in good time by our master admin. Why not make use of crowd sourcing? What do you mean exactly? Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] We need a report spam button for diary entries... and to ban accounts repeatedly spamming...
On 28/08/09 09:39, John Smith wrote: 2009/8/28 Tom Hughest...@compton.nu: What do you mean exactly? Well if enough people can tag a post as spam it would effectively disappear from the site to be reviewed and/or deleted, maybe you could have a more extensive rating system, don't know, but this would allow native speakers of various languages to tag something as spam even if it doesn't look it at first glance to a non-native speaker. It's not the posts we want to delete though, it's the users that make the posts (deleting a user hides all their posts). Deleting users is not something we want to make happen automatically on the basis of some sort of public vote ;-) If somebody wants to build a system with a button that triggers some sort of hiding/referral of a post then fine. It's not a high priority on my personal list of things to do but if somebody feels it is an itch they'd like to scratch then all well and good. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] State of the NameFinder
On 27/08/09 14:26, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 11:58 AM, David Earlda...@frankieandshadow.com wrote: Beyond getting the index updated using the existing technology, my next step is to try using postgres instead of mysql to (hopefully) increase the search speed (I use self-joins a lot and these should be faster in postgres; there may also be scope beyond that for replacing my low level word search algorithm with postgres' flexible free text searching but still retaining the multiple variations the system copes with at present). This might be a silly question but has someone looked into using dedicated search engines like lucene for OSM data? Brian's stuff is using the full text search support in postgres which is effectively a dedicated full test search engine. The advantage of using that over something like lucene is that you combine geographic restrictions (using postgis) with text searches in the same query. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] Uk Missing Major Roads.
On 27/08/09 10:31, Peter Childs wrote: From what I can work out the Use of Green Signs on A roads has nothing to do with classification and more to do with who put it up and who maintains the road. (Highways or Local Council) A similar line being used with B Roads. Not true at all. Green signs are used for roads which are part of the Primary Route Network as designated by the DfT. We actually got a list of all the roads which make up the PRN from the DfT a year or two back using an FOI request. See wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Britain_road_numbering_scheme#Trunk_roads_and_primary_routes I mean if you look at the A2 it looks and feels like a Motor Way (Hard Shoulder, Slipways, 70MPH) all the way till Wilmington it just happens that Tractors and Learners are aloud to use it (I would not advise it however). Many bits of the M2 beyond Gillingham are actually smaller (Only two lanes). Oh and the Blackwall Tunnel is the A102(M) so needs a reclassification as well (By the other set of rules), Which is just plain silly Are you sure it doesn't lose the (M) through the tunnel? Many tunnels and bridges deliberately lose the motorway classification of the road which passes through them in order to allow otherwise prohibited traffic to use them. Hence why the QE2 bridge and Dartford tunnels are designated as the A282 and not the M25. In fact I can't find any map which shows either the tunnel or the approach roads as the A102(M) - they all shown as the A102 for the whole length from the junction with the A12/A13 to the north to the junction with the A2 to the south. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Uk Missing Major Roads.
On 27/08/09 11:05, Tom Hughes wrote: In fact I can't find any map which shows either the tunnel or the approach roads as the A102(M) - they all shown as the A102 for the whole length from the junction with the A12/A13 to the north to the junction with the A2 to the south. I have now found these: http://pathetic.org.uk/former/a102m_blackwall_tunnel_southern_approach/ http://math.colorado.edu/~rmg/roads/a102m.html So it was de-motorwayed in 1999 but was always a bit of an oddity as the southern approach from the Sun in the Sands roundabout to the tunnel was a motorway but the tunnel and northern approach weren't. Any remaining signs for the A102(M) are erroneous. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Uk Missing Major Roads.
On 27/08/09 11:48, Peter Childs wrote: Would it be useful to validate our classification and labelling of roads in OSM against the relevant WIkipedia article[2]. Yes, But I'm still a little unclear from is as to what makes a trunk road trunk. That depends on what you mean... The definition of trunk used by the DfT is those roads which are centrally maintained (by the Highways Agency or a commercial entity under contract to HA) but are not Motorways. These days that is quite a small set as many former trunk roads have been returned to the county highway departments. The OSM definition of trunk (ie the roads to be tagged as highway=trunk) is wider and includes everything which is part of the Primary Route Network, ie all green signed A roads. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] State of the NameFinder
On 26/08/09 13:12, Jonas Krückel wrote: Nestoria (Ed Freyfogle) also offered help for a new search/namefinder on SOTM. And Geocommons made their geocoding service open source. So maybe we should start a kind of working group who looks at all the offers and possibilities and then get one running. Umm... Like the geocoding mailing list you mean? The one that was created after discussion with the interested parties at SOTM... Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Fwd: [OSM-talk] copyright problem with datacopiedfrom a map
On 18/08/09 09:27, Peter Miller wrote: Andy mentions that copyright violation needs to go to the Data Working Group. Why? Sure the foundation needs a log of action of copyright violations, but I don't see why the requested reverts, or 'plastering over the cracks' can't be put onto a public list by a concerned member of the public and is then acted on by a suitably confident member of the community. The foundation then steps back and only gets directly involved in the bigger more problematic cases. The Data Working Group can do things, like sending email direct to the user from somebody official (ie the foundation) that ordinary users are not able to do. Hopefully people will be more likely to respond to such communication to explain what they are doing which can help determine whether there is in fact a problem with the data. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Fwd: [OSM-talk] copyright problemwith datacopiedfrom a map
On 18/08/09 11:18, Peter Miller wrote: On 18 Aug 2009, at 10:30, Tom Hughes wrote: On 18/08/09 09:27, Peter Miller wrote: Andy mentions that copyright violation needs to go to the Data Working Group. Why? Sure the foundation needs a log of action of copyright violations, but I don't see why the requested reverts, or 'plastering over the cracks' can't be put onto a public list by a concerned member of the public and is then acted on by a suitably confident member of the community. The foundation then steps back and only gets directly involved in the bigger more problematic cases. The Data Working Group can do things, like sending email direct to the user from somebody official (ie the foundation) that ordinary users are not able to do. Hopefully people will be more likely to respond to such communication to explain what they are doing which can help determine whether there is in fact a problem with the data. But surely that is no reason not to set up community structures to deal with local vandalism at a local level where that can be achieved and to only escalate the most serious instances to the working group. As the OSM Dataset gets more complete and more accurate vandalism is going to become more of an issue and disruptive to the integrity of the project even if it is minor in nature, let alone what a serious vandal could do. We were talking about copyright infringement, not vandalism. That requires trying to talk to the user to find out where the data is coming from and why they believe it is OK to use. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Link for editing via JOSM-remote-control-plugin
On 17/08/09 10:52, Alexander Menk wrote: can somebody add a link to open JOSM (localhost:8111) to http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/ ? We've been over this many times - it is not appropriate to unconditionally add a a link that will not work for most people. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Announcemen: Multilingual Country-List
On 13/08/09 16:50, Lauris Bukšis-Haberkorns wrote: Also unicode CLDR is good source. http://cldr.unicode.org/ My reading of the terms of use says we probably can't use it as it requires that the copyright notice remains attached to any copies of the data. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway
On 11/08/09 01:57, Alex Mauer wrote: On 08/10/2009 05:31 PM, Liz wrote: I would consider that if we have thousands of mappers, that we should set a quorum for a vote so that unless at least x hundred people vote the vote is not valid From http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features#Proposal_Status_Process: 8 unanimous approval votes or 15 total votes with a majority approval It seems to me that we have one. That's a completely ridiculous quorum when we have 1 active mappers. If the process says that eight people can get together and tell thousands of people that they've been doing it wrong for the last five years and should start retagging everything according to some new scheme then the process is broken. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway
On 11/08/09 08:50, Roy Wallace wrote: On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 5:31 PM, Tom Hughest...@compton.nu wrote: That's a completely ridiculous quorum when we have 1 active mappers. If the process says that eight people can get together and tell thousands of people that they've been doing it wrong for the last five years and should start retagging everything according to some new scheme then the process is broken. What would you suggest? It is quite possible that the effect of increasing the number of necessary votes will only result in slowing down progress. Do you instead expect that it would increase the quality of the accepted proposals? Or are you saying that new ways of tagging things are just bad in general?? Well the hurdle to jump to change an existing tagging should certainly be much higher than the hurdle to introduce a new tag for something that hasn't been tagged before. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] openstreetmap.org completely down
On 11/08/09 09:15, Florian Lohoff wrote: On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 09:02:07AM +0100, Grant Slater wrote: ICMP is evil, nobody needs it anyway... *joke* Pings are blocked and out of our control. sorry. I hope you only refer to echo-request and not all ICMP e.g. destination-unreachable/fragmentation-needed ... What part of out of our control did you not understand? Yes indeed those should not be blocked, and as the firewall in question is run by professionals I would imagine they have it right. None the less, it is not something we have any control over. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Database/Model updates or suggestions
On 06/08/09 09:01, Gianfranco Gliozzo wrote: I am interested in OSM's database. The schema in the wiki http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Database/Model; is out of date. Who knows the way it is now? Trust the code, not the documentation: http://trac.openstreetmap.org/browser/sites/rails_port/db/migrate Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] Liam123 alert!
On 05/08/09 14:47, Ciarán Mooney wrote: Is it possible to publish the IP addresses he is making the edits from? No. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] -3 messages in the inbox
On 03/08/09 15:10, Raphael Studer wrote: I don't know how i did this, but I've got 3 new and -3 old messages in my osm inbox.. I think you did it by deleting messages without reading them... So you have zero messages (because they have all been deleted) but three new messages (because three have not been read) and subtracting the number of new messages from the total gives you -3 old messages ;-) I'll commit a fix to make it ignore deleted messages when working out the new messages. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Title bars (dynamic updating of)
On 02/08/09 11:06, OJ W wrote: It would need to be in rails to go on the main page though, so if any ruby programmer wants to implement it, I can tell them what needs doing? (use the zoom level to choose 3 appropriately-spaced points around the lat/lon, lookup the placenames at each point (optionally choosing a language for the placenames), and return a list of placenames that appear in all 3 points) Implementing it is easy. Predicting the resource usage of hundreds of browsers asking for a new title every few seconds is not. The gain here seems trivial - how many people are actually studying the title bar of the browser while they pan around the map? and the potential to impose a significant load on the server is high. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Something Might be Broken
On 01/08/09 01:08, Andrew Ayre wrote: How exactly is that supposed to help? Will this API have access to some magic accelerator technology that the current API doesn't use? It would help because people could upload large data sets as fast as they can prepare them, then tweak any problems quickly and efficiently. I understand why a faster API helps. What I don't understand is why you think there is some magic switch we can flip that would instantly make it faster - if such a switch existed we would already have flipped it! I was perhaps thinking of a dedicated machine/bandwidth for large uploads. But then I don't know what the bottleneck is in the current system. Is it users, bandwidth, processing power, something else or a combination? I suspect the limitation is primarily how fast you can do all the processing of the changeset and the required database queries and having a different client machine won't make the slightest difference to that. You might be able to get some speedup in the XML parsing but not much more than that I suspect. The real way to speed it up (in so far as is possible given the constraints of the database queries that need to be run) is to rewrite the API in a more efficient language, which would benefit everybody rather than a select elite. There has been some work done towards such a rewrite, but only for the map call so far. A couple of weeks ago JOSM told me it would take 15 hours to upload a 5Mb OSM file. It seems a bit better recently though. That number must be plucked out of thin air though - there is no reasonable way that JOSM can know how long it will take. I've never seen a changeset take anywhere near that long to apply though. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Something Might be Broken
On 31/07/09 23:55, Andrew Ayre wrote: I think if the OSM API was improved so it could accept large changesets faster then that would greatly help out the people who are trying to add large amounts of data. So far I haven't see a fast and reliable method. Excuse me a minute while I find my magic wand... [ time passes ] ...found it! fx: waves wand There you go, changeset processing is now 100 times faster. Perhaps people can apply for access to a second API for large changesets only? How exactly is that supposed to help? Will this API have access to some magic accelerator technology that the current API doesn't use? Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Search field on www.openstreetmap.org
On 30/07/09 15:01, lulu-...@gmx.de wrote: on the SotM09 there was agreement that the search field should be visible at the upper left of the screen in all screen resolutions on http://www.openstreetmap.org . Funny, I obviously missed that. This is not realized yet. Who can do it, please? Lots of people can, but there are very good reasons why it is where it is at the moment which is why it hasn't been moved. The whole home page needs a redesign, and I don't really want to start fiddling with little things like this when we should be doing the job properly. There are also issues with search at the moment which mean we don't actually want to make it too prominent. Since the SOTM advert has been removed it should now be on the home page for most people anyway - the main problems come when there is extra stuff in the sidebar like the SOTM ad that pushes it below the bottom of people's windows. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Thoughts on an enhanced GPX api
On 28/07/09 11:33, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 9:04 AM, René Affourtitraffour...@gmail.com wrote: * All the data is losslessly inserted into the database This means that we can get waypoint/segment/time/ele/whatever data out again. It would probably be simplest to do this by having additional tables equivalent to the node/way tables where a GPX trkseg would be a way, waypoints nodes and so on. Track segment information is already preserved, as is elevation data even though we never use it (one day I'll get around to removing it...). * The data is versioned, and anyone can edit it I have a lot of GPX tracks that could be improved, e.g. by deleting point clouds. I'd like to edit them using normal OSM tools, have those edits versioned (so they can be rolled back), and have other users do those fixes for me. Just like with the OSM data I upload. GPS data is one of our fundamental pieces of evidence that we've surveyed things - is that really compatible with allowing people to edit it? Does editing the GPS data really make any sense at all? Maybe deletion of points makes sense, but I can't see that changing a point in any way should ever be allowed. * Users can download GPX traces: ** As a point cloud within a bbox Like now. ** As all tracks within bbox So that tracks can be distinguished (and hidden) and their metadata read edited. ** Using other methods E.g. all tracks by user Bearing in mind of course the privacy issues, at least with regard to legacy traces, including the question of privacy dilution if you make additional information available about the legacy public traces. Then, instead of deleting traces they (or their segments/points) could simply be tagged indicating their subjective quality using a free-form tagging system. You could then just set your editor to ignore those traces. Free-form tags could obviously be used for other purposes, e.g. marking the trace as surveyed with a given GPS model. Traces already have free form tags which can be edited, although currently only by the person that uploaded them. Implementing this would require new tables in the database, optional changes to all editors (since they could keep using /trackpoints), and new database tables to track GPX data and its history. Does it really need any new tables? I can't see why, unless you really want to pull track segments out into a separate table? What would be in there though other that the track ID and track segment ID - does a GPX file contain any information other than that about a segment? Waypoints is the other things I guess. I have considered adding them in the past but never quite got around to it. There was a historic argument against adding them but I think that can largely be ignored to be honest. How does this sound? I'm pretty happy with the 0.6 API except for the GPS bits. I'd like to make GPX a first-class object in OSM and would be willing to hack the rails port to make that happen (when I have time). Is anyone else interested in being able to do what I've described above? The API code is the easy bit - the performance and disk space issues will be the hard problems to solve. If we dropped the (unused and largely useless) elevation field from the points table and added a deleted flag that would keep the disk usage basically stable. The start point in the trace table, which isn't very useful, could be replaced by a bounding box to allow bbox queries - that's something that I have been thinking about doing for a while. Performance issues will mainly come into play if you want to do anything that requires cross-checking the point cloud against the trace list to determine what user owns it and/or whether it is public or not. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] Thoughts on an enhanced GPX api
On 28/07/09 12:36, Shaun McDonald wrote: On 28 Jul 2009, at 12:15, Tom Hughes wrote: The start point in the trace table, which isn't very useful, could be replaced by a bounding box to allow bbox queries - that's something that I have been thinking about doing for a while. I thought Potlatch used it for the edit links. Yes, and it can perfectly easily use a bbox instead - arguably it's better in fact as the whole trace will appear (depending on area covered by the trace anyway). Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] A possible way to promote OSM
On 27/07/09 14:09, Simone Cortesi wrote: On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 11:54, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)ajrli...@googlemail.com wrote: Did you mean impo...@osmfoundation.org perhaps? Which I've just realised is not yet set up. Have now done so. Actually it is. I just can't read the control panel properly ;-) You lost me... 1. there is a list, a mailman list devodet to imports, the info URL is: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports 2. i see no evidence of an impo...@osmfoundation.org email alias You've been defeated by time... When the original email was sent the mailing list did not exist and the impo...@osmfoundation.org alias was the address for the working group. That is still the address for the WG but following a request at SOTM there is now a mailing lists for general public discussion of imports as well. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Duplicate place=city capital=yes and other place nodes
On 25/07/09 02:49, Mikel Maron wrote: Thanks Mala, as I was the cause of at least one set of those bad imports! This was an import of Arabic placenames globally, in a changeset pushed through the bulk_upload.py. bulk_upload.py seems to support modify and delete, but in my experience (obviously!) not. Can anyone confirm that bulk_upload.py does work .. and then perhaps I can determine what I've been doing wrong. I thought we had established some time ago that it does support them if you give it the right input format. You gave it the wrong format and as a result (and because it doesn't validate the input properly) it treated everything as a create. Basically it supports osmChange and you gave it osm or vice versa - the details escape me right now. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Custom OpenStreetMaps ?
On 21/07/09 09:04, Vincent MEURISSE wrote: On Tuesday 21 July 2009 09:31:37 am Valent Turkovic wrote: Ww! umapper is awesome! I just made Google My Maps like map with OpenStreetMap data with 3 clicks! http://www.umapper.com/maps/view/id/37702/ Unfortunately, the service seem quite slow (~15s just to show the map). And they use flash !!! Moreover they use it badly : no scroll wheel support, moving around is jerky. So this site is a good start. But there is still work to reach google usability (I didn't try map creation). So somebody just needs to write a similar wizard type site then generates an OpenLayers page instead of Flash... Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Undo request button for changesets
On 15/07/09 13:13, marcus.wolsc...@googlemail.com wrote: On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 08:49:11 +0100, Tom Hughest...@compton.nu wrote: Anyway, to draw on Frederik's workshop at SOTM the actual revert is in many ways the easy part - the hard thing is establishing the authority to do the revert. In other words the question of who gets to decide that an edit is bad and should be reverted. A revert is itself just a new changeset. It is not a deletion of an existing changeset. So any user has the rights to do a revert if and only of that user has the right to make an edit. You are confusing what is technically possible with what is socially acceptable. Frederik's point was that when you are doing a revert you should consider whether (socially speaking) it is appropriate. So, to use his examples, if somebody mails him saying I just made a mistake, can you revert my edit then that is obviously fine; but if somebody on the other side of the world emails him saying X keeps making bad edits, can you revert them then he will decline as he has no way of knowing the background to the situation or who is right. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Undo request button for changesets
On 14/07/09 08:30, Bernhard zwischenbrugger wrote: Now we have the changesets like http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/1815935 It's relative easy to identify bad edits. Is it possible to add an undo request button or spam button to this page? What are you expecting this button to do? If you want it to actually revert the change then the simple answer is that such a button probably won't appear, both because we don't want to make it too easy and because in general terms it won't work - reverting will often need manual intervention to resolve conflicts. If you're saying that it should mail some mythical team of ninja mappers who will spring into action and revert the changeset then you're going to need to establish the team of ninja mappers first before we can add the button. Anyway, to draw on Frederik's workshop at SOTM the actual revert is in many ways the easy part - the hard thing is establishing the authority to do the revert. In other words the question of who gets to decide that an edit is bad and should be reverted. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] printing from website
On 14/07/09 09:12, Bob Kerr wrote: I agree a decent link near the permalink area for printing would help a lot. Printing extra pages is annoying too and should be taken into consideration as well, a trap that i've seen happen a lot is that the output is formatted for the US letter format and not A4, so local country considerations need to be thought about. Such a link would just be a javascript call that triggered the browser's print dialog - there isn't much more it can do really. Certainly it can't influence paper choice - after all only you know what printer you have and what paper it has in it. The way to influence that is to use the page/printer setup options in your browser and/or operating system. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] printing from website
On 14/07/09 18:21, Chris Fleming wrote: I find that the print in firefox works very well. The print stylesheet ensures that only the required parts of the page get printed. The only caveat, is that if I switch from portrait to landscape mode then the attribution is printed on the second page, and there could be a little tidying up of the fonts to match the fonts used on the front page. Page splits will be entirely dependent on the size of your browser window - it will scale the map to fit the width of the page and then if there isn't enough vertical space for everything it will wrap to a new page. That's entirely a browser thing though, so different browsers may not do exactly the same thing. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] printing from website
On 14/07/09 21:10, David Earl wrote: That's my experience in printing from Firefox too - a single sheet with one line. (Doesn't it reformat the map to fill the page as it would on screen, hence making this inevitable?) The map you get is exactly the same map you see on screen at the time that you choose to print. If that is too wide to fit on the page then Firefox will scale it down until it fits across the page. It then considers how much space there is for the other things that need printing and throws a new page if needed. You could do an @media print in the CSS and set the attribution to absolute positioning top and left some suitable value to avoid intruding on the image much. We have a whole separate stylesheet for print already - that is what turns off all the bits around the edge and turns on the attribution. If you can suggest changes to that sheet to make it produce better output then please do so... Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] A possible way to promote OSM
On 11/07/09 09:42, Russ Nelson wrote: On Jul 9, 2009, at 2:02 PM, Hillsman, Edward wrote: By the way, whom in the OSM network should I contact about getting help with the uploads this fall? A couple of months ago there was some discussion here about developing some sort of support team for uploading files, and I don’t remember seeing what came of that. impo...@openstreetmap.org I don't think that address will go anywhere... Did you mean impo...@osmfoundation.org perhaps? Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM lat/lon bug; ban on versions 1722-1727
On 05/07/09 02:07, SLXViper wrote: as some may have noticed, josm had a serious bug causing lat/lon of nodes to be swapped when moving them and causing chaos at some points; for details look here: http://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/2804 To prevent further damage, revisions 1722 to 1727 are blocked from downloading and uploading any data. If you use one of those versions affected, please update as soon as possible. How is the block achieved? Nobody has asked me to block anything on the server... Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] The future of bugs in OSM
Frederik Ramm wrote: This is something that must not be lost. Yes, any application can upload their bug via the REST interface, but they can hardly upload an algorithm on how to deal with the bug. So in order not to lose the flexibility of the ecosystem we currently have, we should make an effort to tie in all that coder creativity out there, rather than saying do it in Rails and check in in to SVN, and I might perhaps run it on the central web site if I like it. I don't understand why you think the application that reports the bug should dictate how it will be fixed. Surely the job of the person or application that reports the bug is just to document the problem. It's up to the person that decides to deal with it to decide what to do about it and what application they want to use to fix it. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OpenPisteMap Down?
On 02/07/09 17:32, Steve Hill wrote: On Thu, 2 Jul 2009, Hurricane McEwen wrote: I just went to visit openpistemap.org and I get a blank map. Anyone run in to the same issue? Errm.. yes, damn. :( I am using the OpenLayers code hosted on the OSM servers - looks like this has changed and it is now breaking. I'll try and have a go at fixing it tomorrow. You need to use OL 2.8 - either that or use an older copy of OpenStreetMap.js. Basically mixing our hosted file with your own OL is a bad idea - either pull both from us or host both yourself. That way you won't get a mismatch. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] upload error using bulk_upload.py
On 01/07/09 16:58, Alice Kaerast wrote:
The PHP bulk uploader does indeed fine if all you want to do is upload
*new* nodes. It causes duplicates if you try uploading existing data.
The PHP uploader may need modifying slightly to handle curl not liking
the OSM API, ie.
curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_HTTPHEADER, array('Expect:'));
needs prepending to the other curl_setopt lines. (For some reason
my svn client has decided it is unable to give diffs any more)
That shouldn't be needed anymore - the latest version of lighttpd which
we are now running has an option to stop it returning an error for those
expect headers and it has been turned on for a while now.
Tom
--
Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu)
http://www.compton.nu/
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Re: [OSM-talk] New (better?) source of contours
Joe Richards wrote: Just spotted this - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8126197.stm More - http://asterweb.jpl.nasa.gov/ - this seems to be dead at the moment mind... Nice find! I notice they seem to have 'invested' in MS SQL Server for their project: Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80040e4d' [Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver] Too many client tasks. /index.asp, line 3 Then I suggest you improve your noticing skillz. That quite clearly says they went with the cheap option of Access, not SQL/Server. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Thousands of small changesets by Tim Proegler
Celso González wrote: Importing single nodes its not a bad thing, we made a similar import of spanish fuel stations and schools. By the way, its difficult to check if there is another fuel station in the same zone. In our case we imported everything and sent a message to the mailing list asking people to check the fuel stations near. The question, its more about the license of the source rather than the import. ...and that it would be better to group them into a small number of changesets instead of creating one for each node. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] The map key isn't static anymore
Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: It's a hack, but the original implementation that has been there for two years doesn't support anything but the default mapnik rendering either and osmarender/cyclemap haven't submitted a map key for their rendering in that time. I can live in hope can't I ;-) I've reworked it a but now so it's driven by a simple YAML file which makes it easier for non-programmers to edit. I've also put support for other layers back while I was at it. There seems to be more vertical whitespace between items now, which means we're getting a scrollbar when we didn't before. It's live now anyway. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] The map key isn't static anymore
2009/6/23 Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason ava...@gmail.com The map key is now a HTML table instead of a static PNG image as can be seen on the dev server (click Map key): http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/ (Should be on the main site soon) Actually it probably won't be live for a while as the solution looks like it is a complete mess that won't scale to handling the other map layers. I need to review it fully but right now I'm not hopeful from a quick glance. Jon Burgess/Steve Chilton - if you're reading this do you have any issues with the way it's been done in terms of of how it interacts with the way you create the original key images? Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
2009/6/17 Tim Waters (chippy) chippy2...@gmail.com One of the main annoyances that people tell me that they have with OSM is that whenever they visit the site, the map shows them just the UK. Presumably these are people who are in the UK? What are people's thoughts about the default zoom? Mine are mostly that you clearly have no idea what the current algorithm is ;-) I'm aware that sometimes it may use a cookie and so the map will open up to a previously viewed area - but only when logged in. Wrong. There has for a long time now been a location cookie that is independent of whether you are logged in or not.. As of a few weeks ago it is no longer a session cookie so it now lasts across browser sessions. If you are logged in and you have no location cookie then your home location is used. Do you think it makes a difference what area a user views? Would zooming based on IP Address be a good idea? We've been doing that for a couple of years - if you have no location cookie then we us GeoIP to get a country and zoom to that country. How about using cookies for non-logged in users? We've been doing that for a couple of years, as described above. (One main difference on other sites is that their search box is much more prominent) Because it works. Ours doesn't for practical purposes - once that is sorted we can think about moving it. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] full history of a way?
2009/6/14 MP singular...@gmail.com: Perhaps this could be improved in 0.7, by having some [way|relation]/#id/history-full call, which will return history of referenced way (or relation), including history of all node (ways) that was referenced at least in one of the historic or current versions. Sort of combination of /history and /full There are several problems with this - one is that (as you've discovered) it is quite expensive to compute as you have to go back to the timestamps. Further back in history the timestamps may not even be accurate enough to give the correct answer in fact. as in the early days there were various inconsistencies in the way the timestamps were generated. On top of that it wouldn't really give the full picture - after all there may be multiple versions of a node in the time window for a given way version. So would need to create intermediate way versions to show places where the tags of the way stayed the same but the shape changed because a node was moved. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Admin contact openstreetmap.org?
Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) wrote: If they are webmaster related then for now I would forward them to Grant. I'll discuss with him about setting up a proper webmaster@ address than gets fed to the technical team. No, please don't forward them to Grant. Forward them to webmaster, which currently means me. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] Speed Limit - Trains Was: Re: maxspeed field - what units should we use. etc
Peter Miller wrote: Fyi, Joss (who works for ITO) is in the process of preparing a new OSM railway wiki page in his user area which lists lines and gives relations where they are available. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:JossSmithson/UK_railways Joss's work had been noticed, mainly because there was some question over where some of the data had come from. In the end we decided it had probably from Wikipedia, although that does of course leave open the question of how Wikipedia knows that the Hertford East Branch line is SRS 05.03 ;-) Incidentally, looking at that just now I see that the relation for that branch has been extended all the way down to Broxbourne station rather than terminating at Broxbourne Junction where it joins the main line and I'm wondering if that is the best thing to do? Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Speed Limit - Trains Was: Re: maxspeed field - what units should we use. etc
Peter Miller wrote: On 5 Jun 2009, at 10:19, Tom Hughes wrote: Incidentally, looking at that just now I see that the relation for that branch has been extended all the way down to Broxbourne station rather than terminating at Broxbourne Junction where it joins the main line and I'm wondering if that is the best thing to do? We took the decision to use wikipedia as a the reference for the extent of historic lines, so if the wikipedia article for the Ipswich to Ely line says that it goes all the way to Ipswich to Ely (even though the last section is also the Great Eastern Main Line) then that is what we have done. This isn't a historic line, it's an existing, active line: http://osm.cdauth.de/route-manager/relation.php?id=142019 As you can see the southern end extends beyond the junction with the main line (about 1km east of my house...) down to the next station. Somebody has in fact added the old Buntingford Branch line (which came off the Hertford East Branch) which no longer exists. That does seem to terminate where it comes off the Hertford East Branch: http://osm.cdauth.de/route-manager/relation.php?id=148560 In fact it terminates just before the Hertford East Branch, presumably because whoever put it in didn't know how it used to cross the Lee Navigation, though the footpath there (which I always thought was a bit odd) looks like a good bet for the old route. Maybe I should go out and investigate that sometime... Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] maxspeed field - what units should we use. etc
Robert Naylor wrote: On Thu, 04 Jun 2009 11:13:28 +0100, David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com wrote: I also came across someone tagging maxpeed=NSL yesterday. If it gives someone happiness, fine, but I don't really think it should be necessary to tag the default situation, only when there is an exception to the general rule If the road has regular street lights then NSL isn't the default. I've mapped a number of raods round here with maxspeed=national, but only the ones with lit=yes. Yes it is, it's just that the NSL for such a road is 30mph. Assuming the street lamps are close enough together that is. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] newbie question related to ele (elevation)
Madhav Vodnala wrote: There use to be ele tag for nodes. I exported a small area into an OSM file today and I do not see ele tag anymore. Is that removed?. Presumably because nobody felt like tagging any of the nodes in the area you downloaded with that tag. There are no restrictions on what tags you can add so it's entirely up to you whether you add an ele tag to something. I would only expect to see it on things like mountain peaks or other objects where the elevation is of some specific interest, so in most areas you download you probably won't see any. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Isle of Wight 2
SteveC wrote: How about a weekend again and rent a cottage in the Isle of Wight? This time concentrating on maintenance of the map, detecting new changes and augmenting it with more PoIs and things like addressing? I can organise it all if there is a show of hands for people who'd come. I'm interested, depending on dates etc. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] [OSM-talk] Isle of Wight 2
SteveC wrote: How about a weekend again and rent a cottage in the Isle of Wight? This time concentrating on maintenance of the map, detecting new changes and augmenting it with more PoIs and things like addressing? I can organise it all if there is a show of hands for people who'd come. I'm interested, depending on dates etc. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] MK mapping party
Ed Loach wrote: I notice that some of the tertiary grid roads in MK have had what was tagged in the loc_ref field added to the ref field (such as H4). I think this looks good in Mapnik and wonder whether we should extend it to the other tertiary grid roads (as the primary and secondary ones already have their own references). It would certainly make a printout from OSM more useful for visitors. That was probably me - a few already had it and I added it to some of the others when I bumped them up to tertiary. It's a bit of a cheat really - arguably the better solution would be for mapnik to render loc_ref. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] MK mapping party
Ed Loach wrote: It's kick self time. I know some people who live in Milton Keynes that I invited to join us, but they couldn't as they were due to leave for holiday last Friday. What I forgot to do is look up where in MK they live before the weekend so I could map their area for them, and I think they live just in cake slice 28 near the border with 29 and I don't think anyone did that bit (having shaded in my cake map based on the section about traces that has appeared at the top of the wiki page). http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/MK_Mapping_Party I did 29 and I think Ollie was doing 28 yesterday, unless he changed his mind about what to do? Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] MK mapping party
Ed Loach wrote: I did 29 and I think Ollie was doing 28 yesterday, unless he changed his mind about what to do? I just had a quick look and Potlatch doesn't show any GPS traces for their area in 28 yet. I did notice you've drawn a way nearby in 29 with no tags (I'd guess highway=service?): http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/34623821 Yep, that should be service. I've fixed it now. I also think we need to decide where tertiary should be used, as there's quite a difference between different blocks at the moment - most don't have any but some have loads. My personal opinion was that we should use tertiary for any grid roads that aren't primary/secondary and not use it at all within the blocks in general - just use unclassified for the more major roads in the blocks. What do other people think? Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] MK mapping party
Bruce Cowan wrote: The way I understood things, primary/trunk = A roads, secondary = B roads, tertiary = C roads. Yes, I know that C roads aren't usually put on signs, but they can be usually identified by the fact that they have broken white lines down their centre unlike unclassified roads. That's a nice theory, but largely unworkable as it is generally not possible to discover what roads are C roads, at least not from any copyright free source. In fact as far as I can tell each council has it's own referencing system for roads below B roads - some have C, some have C and D, some have U, and so on. I normally just use tertiary for roads which are not A/B but are significant through roads of some sort. Milton Keynes is a special case though because of the grid structured nature of the town, which a special distinction between the grid roads which are intended as distributor roads and internal roads in each block which are only intended for getting in to/out of that block from the nearest grid road. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] Live Data - all new Data in OSM
Ian Dees wrote: I'd like to continue this part of the thread. As was discussed by Frederik, I think the end goal should be a real-time OSM stream of what's getting applied to the database. Doing that in a performant way is relatively difficult (which is why we're using Osmosis and minutely diffs right now), but I think we should be striving for having a realtime XML feed. I have to say I don't see any great reason to strive for it. I don't think anybody has ever given a use case which requires such a stream and can't work with the diffs. Given that such a stream is uncacheable (and hence requires much higher bandwidth outgoing from the core servers) and much more fragile than the diffs, it is not obvious that we should put what would undoubtedly be a huge amount of effort into creating and maintaining such a system rather than into doing other things. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Live Data - all new Data in OSM
Frederik Ramm wrote: Tom Hughes wrote: It's a completely insane solution though. It we want to do it we should just do it properly in the database not fart around with stupid hacks in the rails code that break as soon as any updates are not done via rails. Assuming for a moment that the database was our bottleneck, something that can be done by farting around on a number of easily scalable API servers would of course compare favourably to burdening the not-so-scalable database with triggers and extra write operations, would it not? The fact that the servers are easily scalable is part of the problem as it means that any such logging system involves merging the actions of some 80 or so processes spread over 4 separate machines (at present). That either means some complicated and fragile locking scheme to control who is writing to the log at any given time or some scheme for merging a whole load of separate logs. Now I don't know how often you manually modify database contents, but I would think that any operation of a scale that would lead us to bypass the rails API would also be very likely to blow apart anyone who listens for edits downstream, so in my eyes there's not much to be gained by streaming these manual override kinds of edits as well. I'm not thinking about manual modifications. I'm thinking about things like the gpx import that are no longer in rails. I think that is only likely to spread to include much of the API in the not too distant future. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Live Data - all new Data in OSM
Bernhard zwischenbrugger wrote: To put OSM data live to xmpp ist very simple and I don't think it's expensive. An easy way would be to post it to a xmpp groupchat: message type=groupchat to=osml...@conference.thejabberserver.org/bot osmgeodata here/osm /message After login it's just a copy to a tcp socket port 5222. Everybody who wants the data can log into the groupchat and gets all the new data. Jabber Servers can handle the load without problem (not sure about that ) and maybe its possible to use an existing jabber server like jabber.org, jabber.ru, Yes and then as soon your client disconnects for a second you've lost a ton of edits and you have no way to resync. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Live Data - all new Data in OSM
Ian Dees wrote: The whole argument I'm making is that after the initial implementation**, streaming the data is a lot less resource intensive than what we are currently doing. Perhaps I don't have the whole picture of what goes on in the backend, but at some point the changeset XML files are applied to the database. At this point, we already have the XML changeset that was created by the client. The stream would simply be mirroring that out to anyone listening over a compressed HTTP channel. You don't want Potlatch's changes then? or changes made by changing individual objects rather than uploading diffs? Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Live Data - all new Data in OSM
andrzej zaborowski wrote: You can in theory extract all edits, at higher than 1 minute granularity, from http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changesets together with all history. (From the minutely diffs if a new way is created and deleted in the same minute, you would never know about it) Anybody trying such a stunt will be liable to summary blocking when caught however. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Live Data - all new Data in OSM
Frederik Ramm wrote: Probably the best way to have a live feed - and a technique that has been discussed on dev about two years ago - would be to have the rails code log all successful database operations into a file which could then be retrieved by an independent daemon and fed into whatever distribution network you want. That would be about the same thing that database replication does, just on a higher level. It's a completely insane solution though. It we want to do it we should just do it properly in the database not fart around with stupid hacks in the rails code that break as soon as any updates are not done via rails. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Putting as little load as possible on the main OSM server
Niklas Cholmkvist wrote: Does anyone know if the first method I mentioned(export method) really puts less load on the main openstreetmap server? No. Exporting OSM data just redirects to the same API call that JOSM uses to download data. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RSS Feed for GPS traces
Jan Torben Heuer wrote: is there a RSS feed for all traces? http://openstreetmap.org/traces/rss shows only the most recent entries and it does not show the entries of the current page but always the first page (which is a bit confusing anyway). No, strangely enough we don't have a 100Mb RSS feed of all 22 public traces. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] 500 Internal Server Error during upload
Jacek Konieczny wrote: On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 02:26:50AM -0500, Ian Dees wrote: It would appear that the database server is under extremely heavy load at the moment: [2]http://munin.openstreetmap.org/openstreetmap/smaug.openstreetmap-pg_openstreetmap_locks.html (I'm not entirely sure that that is the correct measure to look at, but it certainly seems very high.) Load on these graphs is significantly lower now, but I still get 500 errors during uploads. Not that often as before (one in two fails instead of one in ten succeeding), but still it is no good. Well I'm very sorry about that. I shall drop what I'm doing and rush over and establish a priority upload channel for you. Look people, we have new servers and software and we are working to tune them and resolve various issues. Please be patient and stop all this moaning in the mean time... Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Delay before the data is visible?
Ben Laenen wrote: Are the servers really so insanely busy? I can see only a few people uploading something every minute http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changesets and that doesn't really strike me as something this new server shouldn't be able to handle smoothly... Downloads are generally the problem, not uploads. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering export has only coastline
Chris Hill wrote: Richard Fairhurst wrote: Ben Ward wrote: This looks like a bug/problem with the Openstreetmap Mapnik Export rendering. Can anyone confirm, or fix? Mapnik export doesn't work on Wednesdays while the database is reloaded. I believe there's an intention to fix this in the medium term (help welcome no doubt). Meanwhile I'll add it to the FAQ on the wiki. Maybe we should remove the Export tab when it is out of commision? Yes, because the users of all the other export modes that aren't dependent on the mapnik database would love that. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] Yahoo coverage map
Steve Chilton wrote: I am afraid I don't know the answer. Yahoo surely have all the imagery, but presumably have chosen to release this random coverage to OSM. Eh? We're using their standard imagery, not some special OSM released subset... Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] Sat Nav idiocy in Todmorden
ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen wrote: He has been summonsed to court for driving without due care and attention. An excellent move - for once somebody has recognised that you need to use your brain when driving and not just blindly follow the directions of your SatNav. Usually in these stories the SatNav manufacturer is blamed and nobody thinks to ask whether the driver bears any responsibility. Makes me remember when I had to abandon a 1 inch pocket knife when flying to London, followed by a full physical visit by a hypercharged safety officer. Which presumably says more about the place you were flying from than the place you were flying to. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GPS track precision (was GPS track upload working?)
Yann Coupin wrote: You know what to do in version 2 of the track download API, right ? ;) Well only if we want to reparse several hundred thousand tracks, and provide storage space for hundreds of millions of hdop values in the database and we believe that the benefit from doing do (which is marginal in my opinion) outweighs the costs. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GPS track precision (was GPS track upload working?)
Andy Deakin wrote: If the hdop values run between 0-50, in mysql you would only need a tinyint (1 Byte) so to store this for all 727425591 trackpoints would take up less than a GB. I don't think it is worth reparsing all the files, but just because something is not done in the past does not mean that it shouldn't be considered for the future. Yes, but the real problem is that, in my experience at least, HDOP is pretty much meaningless. Whenever I get way out points from my GPS units they seem to have an entirely normal HDOP value. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GPS track upload working?
Gordon Dey wrote: I just saw this with a 55KB file. Specifically: Unable to open /store/gpx/traces/336906.gpx (errno=No such file or directory) XML parser at line 0 column 0 Looks, to the uninitiated observer, like the file was CREAT-d, but not actually filled in. Perhaps there is a file-system-full (or quota) condition being struck? How exactly do you reach that, clearly erroneous, conclusion? If the file had been created you wouldn't be able to get a No such file error would you... There is a race condition that can cause this to happen, as we have to add the record to the database before we can rename the file to it's final name, but the importer deliberately ignores any recently added files to avoid triggering that. My best guess is that the delay isn't long enough under particular load conditions and that we may need to increase it. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GPS track upload working?
Yann Coupin wrote: Would you mind detailing the process in a more detailed fashion? Load induced delay shouldn't make the process fail, only take more time. Failures like this make me think there's a flaw in the design and while increasing the delay may be a working workaround, it's not completly errorproof and it slows things down during off-peak hours for no good reasons. We are well aware that it's a hack... The basic problem is that the trace ID is allocated by the database, so we have to write the trace record to the database to get the ID before we can move the file to it's final home, as the filename is based on the ID value. The old import daemon wasn't fast enough for it to be a problem but the new one is so we added a delay to make it ignore any traces uploaded in the last few minutes. I came up with a better solution this evening though, so I've just rolled out a change that I hope should fix it. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] Clarifying tagging for footway/cycleway etc
Kevin Peat wrote: Richard Mann wrote: As a general principle, I think Key:highway should do most of the work. It should concentrate on describing the physical nature of the way... +1 on this...I also think highway should just describe the physical way so probably just: highway=path|track|road With the rest of the stuff split out: Do you think that, just possibly, having to change the tagging on every single road in the database to implement your scheme might make it just a tad impractical... Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] [Spam] Re: Alternatives to wikipedia?
Peter Miller wrote: Finally, lets not be frightened about the cost of another box and the hosting because terrabytes and gigabytes are really cheap these days. We have just bought a box with 7 Terrabytes of disk storage and it cost £100 per terrabyte. We are also about to import all 1,000,000 of photos of geographic features in the UK from Geograph (all CCBYSA) to see how it copes. Monetary cost is, I agree, not the issue. Time costs for development, maintenance and administration are. I think we should stick to doing one thing well and rather than trying to do lots of things and not managing to do any of them well. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SQL to query street name within a define bbox
John3478 John3478 wrote: Thanks, actually, I have the planet data and I want to use sql query to query exactly the same way as the osmxapi that you have. Do you know what is that sql? Before we can answer that we need to know what format you have the planet data in... Do you just mean the you have the XML data? or have you loaded it into a relational database - presumably you have if you want to use SQL, but what schema are you using? I'm guessing it is either the MySQL schema used by the API or the postgis format used for mapnik rendering? Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] License to kill
Frederik Ramm wrote: I recently asked bo...@osmf for a list of members and received the answer that providing such a list might clash with members' privacy; but they said they thought that creating a members-only mailing list would be a good idea (I expect this to be done any day now). So I guess that, once the list is set up, if you find you receive mails from that list then you are a member ;-) I was going to say that they were absolutely right not to give it to you as it would certainly never have occurred to me that anybody could ask for list and I wouldn't have expected it to be given out, but... The proper contact at OSMF would be the membership secretary. I don't know anything about their policies regarding renewals. However, I *think* that it was planned to have some kind of grace period, i.e. if your membership has lapsed because you didn't renew, you might have the chance to just pay now and it counts as having renewed after your previous membership expired. But don't take my word for any of this, I do not have any more access to board meeting minutes than anyone else. As far as I know you should get an email when your renewal is due. I certainly did last year. I thought that the membership fee was a yearly amount but maybe I was wrong. There are many things in the Articles of Association and the underlying Companies Act that on first reading seem to run contrary to how business in OSMF is conducted, and I put this down to myself not knowing which bits are important and which bits are subject to interpretation. For example I would have thought that the Companies Act says that the register of members must be available on request (even to non-members so could as well be put on the web site), but who am I to know the intricate details of the UK system - there are probably myriad case law issues that say otherwise and only a lawyer will know what counts. ...coming back to the point from the first paragraph, you are probably quite right here. Because the foundation is a limited company, and members of the foundation are the members of that company, the Companies Act probably does require them to give the list to anybody that asks. Certainly for a company limited by share capital the list of shareholders has to be provided (which causes some problems in fact) and the list of members is the equivalent for a company limited by guarantee so it quite probably does have to be divulged on request, even to non-members. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Front page design and SEO
Robert (Jamie) Munro wrote: Richard Fairhurst wrote: Andy Allan wrote: Quite. Can someone please come up with names for the two main styles that aren't just the technology that creates them? Mapnik - Standard (or maybe 'Classic') I think that the Mapnik layer should be called UK Style. Green trunk roads, Blue motorways etc. are all standard features of British maps, and not in use as much elsewhere. Except maybe one day we'll have the technology to use different colours in different countries - it's not really deliberately a UK style, that is just a side effect of (a) not having support for country specific schemes and (b) the main cartographer doing that layer being UK based. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Front page design and SEO
Frederik Ramm wrote: (I see that for some countries people have put up slippy maps covering only that country. I would love to one day interweave these individual servers by way of a cool getTileUrl OpenLayers function so that you can zoom across Europe and see each country as rendered by the national OSM group ;-) I'm not sure delegating to all sort of different servers is the best way to implement such a thing for lots of reasons. We just need the master stylesheet to be able to take location into account when rendering. Aside from anything else if you did it by delegation the style could only change on the edge of a tile. Then again, I'm not sure it works to be changing styles at a land border anyway - it will look very odd if motorways suddenly change colour because you've reached a border. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Further Concerns about ODbL
David Groom wrote: My current concerns are very specific, and hopefully may simply be down to my misreading of the licence, but: Section 2.2(a) states The copyright licensed includes any individual elements of the Database, but does not cover the copyright over the Data independent of this Database. The copyrighting of the data is covered by Section 2.2(b) and here states Database Rights only extend to the Extraction and Re-utilisation of the whole or a Substantial part of the Data. I have real problems with the use of the word Substantial . From my interoperation it would appear that extraction and subsequent use of any amount of data which is deemed to be insubstantial is effectively free of any copyright or database rights. I suspect the reason for the use of that phrase springs directly from the EU concept of database right, which is limited in that it only applies to a substantial extract of a database. So database right doesn't apply to extracts which are not substantial and can't be used to protect them. Substantial in that sense is not limited to a pure percentage type of consideration though - taking 2.25% that happened to be an entire country, or all the motorways in the world, might be substantial while take 2.25% of nodes at random might not. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Front page design and SEO
Ian Dees wrote: To get some conversation going: I really like the Fp4.jpg[1] example on the URL you gave, Steve. It's important to make the map (and thus its data) the largest GUI element on the page. The buttons along the top draw my eye up there to see what's available. I also like the Shop link idea. It's probably my favourite in many ways, but I don't like the way it has tabs for things which aren't tabs - things like Blog and Shop which would presumably replace the whole page and take you to another site. Unless of course the suggestion is that we would iframe those sites in so they really did behave like tabs. In which case I hate it ;-) Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Front page design and SEO
D Tucny wrote: I must say, I like that one too... but... So many sites and applications these days seem to be going with all the options at the top/bottom and a full width content section, while at the same time most 4:3 screens are being replaced with 16:10 screens... Screen size is of course irrelevant to browser window size, unless you're one of those weird web designers that seems to think everybody runs their browser full screen all the time... Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Front page design and SEO
SteveC wrote: The other thing that could be better is the search engine optimisation of the front page so that it shows up higher for some search terms like free maps and stuff. Why do I always want to barf when I hear somebody mention SEO... Anyway some thoughts are jotted down here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Front_Page There are a bunch of open questions like what design elements should stay, what should go, what colour schemes would be neat. Feel free to contribute and if it's useful we can build a design brief based on comments and ideas... then if it's useful to the community we can have them do some more design work to build some cool front page mockups. In some ways of course the design is the easy bit, then we need a volunteer to do battle with javascript and try and implement the changes which is no mean feat on our frontpage I can assure you ;-) Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
