Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
slartibartfast wrote: > Your best bet is to set up a Raspberry Pi as a server. I don't think > many are happy with the built in server. > > Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk I was using TinyLMS on the Touch with an external powered hard drive and it worked most of the time, but TinyLMS would stop running for unknown reasons. When that hard drive failed a few months ago I knew I needed to set up an LMS server. I just purchased a raspberry pi 3B+ and set it up using the documentation on picoreplayer.org. I know NOTHING about linux, but I got it running. I had one small problem of not matching the lower/uppercase on one of the fields, but other than that one issue, I got it to work. Read the instructions carefully. Gook luck. Paul P Nelson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=58158 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
slartibartfast wrote: > Your best bet is to set up a Raspberry Pi as a server. I don't think > many are happy with the built in server. > > Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk Agree. I setup a "set and forget" LMS server for my brother. Simply connected via ethernet to his router, and rPi has USB drive attached containing music files. I recommend the rPi4B for use as a server, but rPi3B+ (or almost any rPi) is perfectly fine. 2GB ram is plenty. *Home:* VBA2.5 4TB -or- rPi4B/pCP6.1/4TB>LMS 8.0.x>Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio (all ethernet) *Cottage:* rPi4B/pCP6.1/4TB>LMS 8.0.x>Touch>Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (Radio WIFI) *Office:* Win10(64)>foobar2000 *The Wild: *rPi3B+/pCP4.0, hifiberry Dac+Pro, 4TB USB (LMS & Squeezelite) *Controllers:* iPhone11 & iPadAir3 (iPeng), CONTROLLER, Material Skin, or SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win10(64) *Files:* -Ripping-: dbpoweramp > FLAC; -Post-rip-: mp3tag, PerfectTunes, TuneFusion; -Streaming:- Spotify garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
michel wrote: > Sorry to bring up this old post! > I am setting up a used touch for a friend who is a computer dummy. i > wanted to use the internal server to avoid having to install and > servicing a NAS. > Around 15000 files including album art led to frequent crashes of > server. I tried to install a swap drive using putty just to see the > address is no longer > http://busybox.net/downloads/binaries/latest/busybox-armv6l but is now > https and putty obviously does not support this. > I am definitely no Linux man, probably someone can help me out. > THXYour best bet is to set up a Raspberry Pi as a server. I don't think many are happy with the built in server. Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk slartibartfast's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35609 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Sorry to bring up this old post! I am setting up a used touch for a friend who is a computer dummy. i wanted to use the internal server to avoid having to install and servicing a NAS. Around 15000 files including album art led to frequent crashes of server. I tried to install a swap drive using putty just to see the address is no longer http://busybox.net/downloads/binaries/latest/busybox-armv6l but is now https and putty obviously does not support this. I am definitely no Linux man, probably someone can help me out. THX michel's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4393 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
I suspect the problems people are experiencing with USB powered harddrives is because of the powersupply to the SBT. I use an old powersupply from a PC, the 5v line can deliver 25A of power and I have never had any problem. When I read the posts on the matter, there also seem to be a connection between a large number of individual files on the drive and crashes. That could be an indication that the harddrive is starved powerwise, larger database = more HDD activity = more power is required. I do not know for sure, just a thought. My HDD is organized with 3 files pr. CD (1 Wav file,1 CUE file and 1 folder.jpg file) that reduces the total number of files as compaired to storing the CD's as individual tracks. I do have one problem though, when I use the HDD for other purposes and reconnect the HDD the database is corrupted and I have to do a rescan. So I don't do that anymore, since thenno problems for over a year now. uffesw's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=58926 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
As this forum seems to be the place to go for getting tiny Logitech Media Server (tinyLMS) working on the Sb Touch, I wanted to provide my experience which might help others. In this forum, some were successful in using a USB powered Toshiba Cavino portable hard drive with TinyLMS. I purchased a 1 Tb 3.0 USB version. It is nice small drive and very quiet. Following the tips provided in the fourm, I did the following: 1) Re-formatted to FAT32 2) Removed non music, rip reports etc., (from a duplicate of the master copy) 3) Removed embedded artwork from the files, keeping only folder.jpg in each folder (from a duplicate of the master copy) 4) Removed non-essential ID tags, that were not needed for the LMS database (from a duplicate of the master copy) I have about 3,500 tracks with about 2,500 FLAC and 1,000 MP3. Tiny LMS will also serve 2 SB radios connected by Wifi. I was successful getting tiny LMS to scan the files, but it was very slow and took overnight. The SB Touch with tinyLMS was working for about 2 weeks, but it would crash and restart frequently. One day it crashed and I could not get it going again. I also had to use the reset buttom to restore factory setting to get the SB Touch to respond. I removed the portable drive and examined it on my windows machine. The LMS database files were corrupted as indicated by chkdsk. I cleared the files and tried a new complete scan, but I could not get it to rescan. I even reformated the drive and recopied the files from the master. Again, it would not rescan. Thinking my SB Touch had hardware problems, I had friend try it on his Touch without success. I gave up on the Toshiba drive, and it now serves as a backup to my desktop. I switched to an external powered Western Digital Drive, which was my prior backup drive. (This drive is a bit noisy for a music room and may be a problem for quiet sections in music when noise from the drive will be noticeable.) This solved the scan problem. A scan that would take hours, now completed in about 5-10 minutes. TinyLMS on the Touch is also a lot more reliable. In a two week period, it crashed and restarted by itself only once. I have not had to use the reset button, which I had to do to frequently using the USB powered drive. I highly recommend people use an external powered hard drive to get TinyLMS to work. While some USB powered drives might work, it not worth the headache and lost time. Take the Logitech recommendation and do not use USB powered drives. I dont know if a external powered USB hub would have also solved the problem, as I did not try it. P Nelson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=58158 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
I'm running Squeezebox Touch with USB Harddrive ( WD Elements Portable USB 3.0) directly coupled to the touch. As a powersupply I'm using a PC switchmode 250W unit capable of delivering 25A into 5V, so I guess I won't have a problem with enough juice. Using Soundchecks TT3.0 mod with everything turned off exept wireless and using a smartphone as a remote. S/Pdif coax into a Hegel HD11 DAC. The Squeezebox is running with the latest firmware fab4_7.8.0_r16739.bin. The harddisk is organized with seperate folders pr. CD, wich contain one big wavfile and one cuefile and one folder.jpg file, everything works perfect and the sound is finally so good that I can just sit back and enjoy the music. Would just like to share my setup with you kindred spirits out there. Greetings from Denmark :-) uffesw's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=58926 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
I read through the Jean's posts and understood some of it. The linux stuff was foriegn to me. I have about 3000 FLAC files (ripped using DBpoweramp.) I am still checking, but most of my folder.jpg files are less than 500x500 pixels. However, I think I did embed the artwork into the FLAC files. I have two questions regarding the artwork and probems with TinySB: 1) Is it the size of an individual folder.jpg file? Or is is a cumulative size problem with large collections? 2) If I need to remove the embedded artwork from the FLAC files, does anyone have any suggestion on how to do it? Thanks Paul P Nelson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=58158 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
cat6man wrote: > thanks for the quick response. > > by the way, are there any small portable hdd/NAS that i can install the > server software on? > Checkout SqueezePlug and the NAS boxes it supports, they are supposed to be low power and is reasonable small and it's easy to install SqueezePlug (which includes LMS) on them. http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?90931-SqueezePlug-Media-Server-4-0-%28final-Release%29 erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
erland wrote: > We tested it a bit here previously: > http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?90147-Two-simple-ideas-to-make-Touch-standalone-with-TinySBS-(and-why-not-SBS-)-acceptable&p=656288#post656288 > > It didn't work very good, probably because it will still scan the folder > when you enter a folder which contains tracks. > I don't think there is an easy workaround for it at the moment if you > have a large library. thanks for the quick response. by the way, are there any small portable hdd/NAS that i can install the server software on? cat6man's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37398 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
cat6man wrote: > hi folks, > > just found this thread and have a question. > i want to use the touch in my car with a usb drive. > since the power will be turned off each time i turn off the car, i can't > afford to re-scan the usb drive or i'd never get to hear any music at > all. > > if i only want to use 'music folder' to navigate my music collection, > can i skip the scan completely and still have a huge (~40k flac files) > music collection to navigate around? > We tested it a bit here previously: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?90147-Two-simple-ideas-to-make-Touch-standalone-with-TinySBS-(and-why-not-SBS-)-acceptable&p=656288#post656288 It didn't work very good, probably because it will still scan the folder when you enter a folder which contains tracks. I don't think there is an easy workaround for it at the moment if you have a large library. erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
hi folks, just found this thread and have a question. i want to use the touch in my car with a usb drive. since the power will be turned off each time i turn off the car, i can't afford to re-scan the usb drive or i'd never get to hear any music at all. if i only want to use 'music folder' to navigate my music collection, can i skip the scan completely and still have a huge (~40k flac files) music collection to navigate around? cat6man's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37398 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
jean2 wrote: > First, avoid ID3-v1 (I personally avoid ID3 all versions and stick only > with VorbisComments). good points, but for other readers (not Jean2) note that vorbiscomments is for FLAC files. If you have mp3 files, I suggest having ID3v2 (avoid ID3v1 and APE, and particularly avoid having BOTH ID3v1 and ID3v2 and APE...leads to lots of confusion later on) garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
garym wrote: > agree. And if your directories/subdirectories/file names are well > organized you can use "mp3tag" function of FILENAME > TAG to actually > automatically fill the metadata (tag) based on names of subdirectories > or all or part of actual file names. Works very nicely. You should play > around a bit with it, as I agree that having good, complete tags is good > for lots of different reasons. I personally use mp3tag, highly recommended. I think in the case of TinyLMS, more than being complete, the goal is to avoid tag-bloat to make it easier on the scanner and database, because all tags are stored in the database. In other words less is more. First, avoid ID3-v1 (I personally avoid ID3 all versions and stick only with VorbisComments). Second, avoid embedded artwork. Third, avoid useless tags. Fourth, keep tags fairly simple and straighforward. I don't use "composer", I don't use "disknumber"... On the other hand, I use ReplayGain, AlbumArtist and ArtistSort, and I can imagine they add complexity to the database. Regards, Jean jean2's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33946 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
JohnSwenson wrote: > > As to why the hardware was not modified to run the server better once it > became a feature, that I don't know. Probably along the lines of, "the > design is done, no way are we sinking any more money into this thing". > We already discussed that earlier, I'm sorry it still does not make sense to me. http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?82070-Touch-with-USB-drive-mastering-TinySB&p=676527&highlight=#post676527 The bigger memory chip is pin compatible, so there was no redesign needed, no "skinking money". Anyway, the SqueezeBox guys have been silent for a while, they must be cooking something in secret. Have fun... Jean jean2's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33946 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
jean2 wrote: > > An alternative is to work on your collection and your tags. This is what > I have done, it's possible. My own SB-Touch has currently about 10k > music tracks, most albums with artworks, and it is super stable. I > installed a SB-Touch at my parent with a subset of my collection, 6k > tracks, and it went smoothly. Works for me because I'm doing the > ripping, I have tight control and established procedures. agree. And if your directories/subdirectories/file names are well organized you can use "mp3tag" function of FILENAME > TAG to actually automatically fill the metadata (tag) based on names of subdirectories or all or part of actual file names. Works very nicely. You should play around a bit with it, as I agree that having good, complete tags is good for lots of different reasons. p.s. mp3tag works with many different file types, not just mp3. garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
jean2 wrote: > I'm sorry, but this does not make sense on multiple levels. The > processor has most likely a serial and JTAG insterface, however the > hardware guys did not put a RS232 console or JTAG connector on the back. > With the cost and leadtime of industrial design, the decision to add a > hole in the plastic for the USB connector and a USB connector on the > motherboard was not a trivial one, definitely not an afterthought. > What also does not make sense is that after deciding to put the USB on > the back, there was still plenty of time to upgrade the memory chip for > larger one, it's not like the software had no experience about the > server requirements. So, there may be some truth that the HW and SW team > were quite uncoordinated on that feature. > > Regards, > > Jean I know from talking to some of the people involved that the Touch hardware was not designed to run a server, I think the original thinking was that since the USB and SD card interface were available in the processor they would put the connectors on the box, with the idea that they would be used to store images for use with a "photo frame" screensaver. The whole idea of putting a server on it came after the initial hardware was up and running and they found that about half the cpu cycles and half the memory was not being used. It was a "lets see if we can figure out what to do with those resources thing". Sort of like the people that try and run PacMan on a camera LCD screen. Then marketing heard it was running, and low and behold it was now a "feature" that had to work! As to why the hardware was not modified to run the server better once it became a feature, that I don't know. Probably along the lines of, "the design is done, no way are we sinking any more money into this thing". I don't think having a USB port was part of the original concept of the device, I think it came about when the designers were looking at the processor and saying "there is a USB port on this , would it be useful to have a jack for it on the box? Then the management bought in to having it there for photo frame use. I think it was an afterthought in the sense that it was not part of the original concept for the design, but got added later on in the design process. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
JohnSwenson wrote: > which as far as I can tell was an after thought, the processor had a USB > port on it so the hardware guys put the plug on the back I'm sorry, but this does not make sense on multiple levels. The processor has most likely a serial and JTAG insterface, however the hardware guys did not put a RS232 console or JTAG connector on the back. With the cost and leadtime of industrial design, the decision to add a hole in the plastic for the USB connector and a USB connector on the motherboard was not a trivial one, definitely not an afterthought. What also does not make sense is that after deciding to put the USB on the back, there was still plenty of time to upgrade the memory chip for larger one, it's not like the software had no experience about the server requirements. So, there may be some truth that the HW and SW team were quite uncoordinated on that feature. Regards, Jean jean2's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33946 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Hazim wrote: > > So, my question is - why can't I also just shut off that boring server > function, then navigate my folder system - and just play my music? > Technically, it MUST be possible with some simple software tweak, > because that is the way most of media players work - using just the > folder system of the attached HDD. My MP3 player, a Sansa CLIP+, scan the music file tags and build a database, just like the SqueezeBox Touch. The regular firware is limited to 8000 songs. Further, it had various bugs in the scanning/database, so I had to load RockBox (an alternate firmware), which database is working better. And if you think scanning takes a long time on the Touch, it's way way worse on the CLIP+. iPods work differently, the scanning is done by the PC and pre-loaded on the iPod. But, this can only work if the filesystem is tightly controller and can make sure that no file system change happens between the scan done on the PC and insertion in the device. Obviously, this is not the case for the Touch. In other words, the scanning and database on the Touch does not work so bad compared to the competition. Now, why use a database ? Personally, I would not buy a MP3 player without the database function, because I like browsing my collection different way, like by artist, by genre, new albums, etc. On the Touch it is also essential to other functions, such as Gapless, ReplayGain and Artwork. That's what the vast majority of people expect. Finally, it is true that the client-server architecture adds overhead to the Touch, but it's fairly robust and not the major source of issues. Most people have problems with scanning, not the client-server part. Anyway, I love the client-server part, because this is what is enabling me to have other SqueezeBoxes use the music collection on my Touch, and this is also what enables tablets applications to control the Touch. I personally listen more my music on my SB-Radio in the garden and garage than on my main Touch. And for tablet control, you really need to try it. Now, there are practical way to deal with the situation. Many people will advise you to have a real server. That's probably the simplest/quickest solution, with VortexBox and SqueezePlug being mentionned often. I'm sure that once it is setup, you will just enjoy the music and forget about it. An alternative is to work on your collection and your tags. This is what I have done, it's possible. My own SB-Touch has currently about 10k music tracks, most albums with artworks, and it is super stable. I installed a SB-Touch at my parent with a subset of my collection, 6k tracks, and it went smoothly. Works for me because I'm doing the ripping, I have tight control and established procedures. Finally, new SqueezeBoxes will most likely have more CPU and memory (Moore's law), which will address those problems. Regards, Jean jean2's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33946 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
The reason you need the server is because thats the way the entire squeezebox system was designed. It was designed from the ground up as a SYSTEM of server and players, the players get their audio data from the server over a network. All the squeezebox "players" have used this system. The Touch is the first hardware in the squeezebox line that had any capability of having media attached to it (which as far as I can tell was an after thought, the processor had a USB port on it so the hardware guys put the plug on the back). The result is that all the software on the Touch is written for the squeezebox system, audio data comes to the player over a network from a server. After they got the hardware working some of the programmers started thinking "hey I wonder if we could get a server to run on the Touch", well it didn't. They had to start turning off all kinds of functionality but they finally got it to run on the Touch hardware. This is the "tiny" server. The reason you can't just "play a file" is that it was never designed to do so. It would take throwing away the existing software and rewriting it as a dumb player. Actually it would probably be easier to write a "dumb server" that used the existing protocol to talk to the exisiting player software. But nobody has written that yet. The problem with such a server is that invariably "feature creep" will set in. Somebody will want just one extra piece of info on the screen. Just one more way to find music in a big library. Just a slightly more sophisticated way to build a playlist etc. Pretty soon the sleek, simple fast server is now a big bloated thing all over again. So unless you or someone else wants to write the "just play the file" server or player, you are kind of stuck with using the existing TinyLMS. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Hazim wrote: > I mean, there are tons of media players around, to which you can just > plug in your HDD via USB - and they are immediately ready to play > anything from the attached HDD - be it music, movies, photos, etc. I confess that I'm not that familiar with this particular species of device. Could you give some examples? And do they do multi-room audio (either sync'd or different streams)? Maybe you're not interested in multi-room audio, but that has been a core feature of SB from the beginning, although one might never know from the way it isn't marketed as such. Also, if it's any comfort, you're not alone. Others have asked for a similar change in the SB paradigm, such as this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?90147-Two-simple-ideas-to-make-Touch-standalone-with-TinySBS-(and-why-not-SBS-)-acceptable . If you wade through, I think you'll find Erland's patch that kidstypike mentioned in his response. aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Hazim wrote: > Thanks garym for your reply, I really appreciate your assistance and > explanation. > > However, I am still not clear as to why we need the tiny server (or any > server whatsoever) to just simply play the music from a USB drive? I > mean, there are tons of media players around, to which you can just plug > in your HDD via USB - and they are immediately ready to play anything > from the attached HDD - be it music, movies, photos, etc. > > [...edited out...] > > Hazim I suspect that these players don't provide any sort of database for the music (just use file structure), and don't provide the background to do things like connect with music services that require authorization. But I'm certainly no expert on these other things. However regarding getting "better sound" by freeing up the computer within the Touch: Very Unlikely. I'd be shocked if most people, including me, could pass a double blind test comparing a modified and unmodifed Touch. Yes, you can read a lot of stuff on this and other forums regarding the unbelievable improvement in audio from various tweaks. I'm afraid most of this is pure bunk. But to each their own. garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Hazim wrote: > Thanks garym for your reply, I really appreciate your assistance and > explanation. > > However, I am still not clear as to why we need the tiny server (or any > server whatsoever) to just simply play the music from a USB drive? I > mean, there are tons of media players around, to which you can just plug > in your HDD via USB - and they are immediately ready to play anything > from the attached HDD - be it music, movies, photos, etc. > > I want to have an independent music player, completely away from TV, > away from home network and PC, away from the internet - a music only > device, a high-end audio music source. Touch does give me exactly that - > I eliminated ALL its functions and apps except pure music play, and it > DOES play music ridiculously well - producing better sound than majority > of expensive CD transports. Actually, since I bought Touch, I never ever > again played a single CD from my Theta Digital CD transport! I now only > use a Theta DAC, which I feed from Touch's coax out. Then DAC feeds an > amplifier (47 Lab Gaincard) which feeds the loudspeakers (Essence, and > since recently, I am experimenting with KEF). > > So, what I mean to say here is that Touch actually is a fantastic small > device. The rest of my equipment is probably 30 times the price of > Touch, but its actual value in terms of audio quality matches the price > of the rest of the chain. Furthermore, it is the most practical music > source device ever produced - all my music in one small place available > at the touch of a finger, instead of having a "cubic meter" of CDs > occupying my living space, collecting dust and demanding me to rise up > each time I wanna play something different. > > So, my question is - why can't I also just shut off that boring server > function, then navigate my folder system - and just play my music? > Technically, it MUST be possible with some simple software tweak, > because that is the way most of media players work - using just the > folder system of the attached HDD. This would definitely further release > Touch's CPU, and leave it more energy to do what we all need it to do - > properly turn those music files into a digital signal. I have always > thought of this idea, but my experience with shutting off unnecessary > functions, and the what I described in my previous post - all indicate > that releasing the burden from Touch's CPU is one way to further improve > the sound. Could it be possible? What does everyone think about it? > > Is there any other thread discussing this issue (I could not find one, > so maybe I could start it...) Thank you all for the opinions and > advice... > > Hazim I recall someone (maybe Erland or Triode) writing a script/code to do exactly what you want the Touch to do, however, ATM I can't supply a link to it. I don't think it survives a firmware update though. Hopefully someone will be along who can steer you to the correct thread. kidstypike's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10436 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Thanks garym for your reply, I really appreciate your assistance and explanation. However, I am still not clear as to why we need the tiny server (or any server whatsoever) to just simply play the music from a USB drive? I mean, there are tons of media players around, to which you can just plug in your HDD via USB - and they are immediately ready to play anything from the attached HDD - be it music, movies, photos, etc. I want to have an independent music player, completely away from TV, away from home network and PC, away from the internet - a music only device, a high-end audio music source. Touch does give me exactly that - I eliminated ALL its functions and apps except pure music play, and it DOES play music ridiculously well - producing better sound than majority of expensive CD transports. Actually, since I bought Touch, I never ever again played a single CD from my Theta Digital CD transport! I now only use a Theta DAC, which I feed from Touch's coax out. Then DAC feeds an amplifier (47 Lab Gaincard) which feeds the loudspeakers (Essence, and since recently, I am experimenting with KEF). So, what I mean to say here is that Touch actually is a fantastic small device. The rest of my equipment is probably 30 times the price of Touch, but its actual value in terms of audio quality matches the price of the rest of the chain. Furthermore, it is the most practical music source device ever produced - all my music in one small place available at the touch of a finger, instead of having a "cubic meter" of CDs occupying my living space, collecting dust and demanding me to rise up each time I wanna play something different. So, my question is - why can't I also just shut off that boring server function, then navigate my folder system - and just play my music? Technically, it MUST be possible with some simple software tweak, because that is the way most of media players work - using just the folder system of the attached HDD. This would definitely further release Touch's CPU, and leave it more energy to do what we all need it to do - properly turn those music files into a digital signal. I have always thought of this idea, but my experience with shutting off unnecessary functions, and the what I described in my previous post - all indicate that releasing the burden from Touch's CPU is one way to further improve the sound. Could it be possible? What does everyone think about it? Is there any other thread discussing this issue (I could not find one, so maybe I could start it...) Thank you all for the opinions and advice... Hazim Hazim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=56067 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
A reboot/restart often solves lots of computer issues. And the TOUCH is a computer (albeit tiny one). The Touch is in fact using a server when it plays files from your USB drive. It is not using a server running on a separate computer (that is, LMS). Instead it is running the server software itself (i.e., TinyLMS). So the Touch has a very limited amount of computer power, just enough to run a stripped down LMS server. And people do take advantage of some of this process power to try to improve the audio quality and/or add functionality. For example, Triode's EDO applet for the TOUCH adds the ability to play 24/192 files (normally touch plays only 24/96 files) and adds the ability to connect certain DACs to the TOUCH via USB rather than the S/PDIF or TOSLINK digital connections of the Touch. None of this is necessary for good audio of course as the TOUCH is a remarkable piece of kit right out of the box. garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
First of all, thank you all for describing some really good ways and tools to make SBs Tiny server to work. I also am inclined to making things simple and avoiding the PC, the home network, and complications whenever possible - thus playing my music from locally attached USB disk ONLY. Both Jean2's and treeplek's advises and tools here have proved in my case to be extremely effective in making my SBT very stable, so thank you guys sooo much! However, one strange thing has happened yesterday. I detached the USB disk to add more music - some 50 GB of WAVs of re-scanned CDs. I reattached the disk back to the SB, and of course it took usual time to scan new files etc. When I finally started to play, the sound reproduction had completely changed. It started to sound like some old and very cheap CD player, and the overall sound was kind of "compressed". It sounded really bad whatever I was playing - either newly scanned files or the old files, either mp3 or FLAC or WAV- it all sounded kind of "boomy", with cut low and high frequencies, and mids having some strange "reverb" effect. Well, I am generally very critical to sound quality, and usually only I notice nuances, but in this case it were no nuances - even my kids noticed the change. After one hour of hopeless playing and trying to figure out what happened to my system, after playing with cables, amplifier, trying other DA converter (I use an external DAC only), etc, I decided that the only and the last thing I could try is to just restart the SB... Strangely, it worked! Everything came back to normal, good sound that I always have from the Touch. What could have caused this? Re-scanning of the library - i.e. if the scanning process takes away some main processor's "resources"? More importantly, if that is the case, is this opening a door to ways that could lead to further improvement of the Touch's sound? And what does this Tiny server do anyway - why can's we just play files directly from the USB disk without even using the server? I anyway only navigate the music through my "my music" folders system - i just NEVER use genre, artist, album, etc , so I do not even want the server, nor the boring scanning process each time I add more music... Well, thank you all for your opinions... Hazim Hazim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=56067 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
MarkSAllen wrote: > I have a Touch, with a Seagate USB drive connected (11,000 files), and > am controlling it with a Duet controller. These are all connected via > wi-fi to a NetGear WN3000RP wi-fi extender router that has a wireless > connection to the Internet. > > This all works perfectly when the Internet connection is in place, with > all traffic staying within the WN3000RP, but stops working if the > WN3000RP to Internet connection is lost (the Duet controller says the > Touch is reporting the network down). > > Any ideas as to how to set this all up so that it doesn't care whether > there is an Internet connection or not? hmmm, this must have something to do with your wifi extender. With a regular router, I can unhook the cable modem (no outside internet), but still have complete control and use of my players and controller within my internal LAN (for my own music files obviously). Not sure where to troubleshoot, but definitely something about the wifi extender not staying connected to your LAN. You don't have, for example DHCP turned on in two different routers? I suggest you post back with a description of your actual LAN setup from outside internet > router > extender, etc. and someone can probably chime in. garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
I have a Touch, with a Seagate USB drive connected (11,000 files), and am controlling it with a Duet controller. These are all connected via wi-fi to a NetGear WN3000RP wi-fi extender router that has a wireless connection to the Internet. This all works perfectly when the Internet connection is in place, with all traffic staying within the WN3000RP, but stops working if the WN3000RP to Internet connection is lost (the Duet controller says the Touch is reporting the network down). Any ideas as to how to set this all up so that it doesn't care whether there is an Internet connection or not? MarkSAllen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=45176 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Hi, I decided to try the EXT3 filesystem on my Touch. 1) Rationale --- The main reason for upgrading from FAT to EXT3 was corruption. EXT3 is a journalled filesystem, so should be more robust to filesystem corruption. I just had a FAT filesystem corruption. I initially tought that keeping the hard drive as VFAT would make it easier to use the drive. In practice, the drive is always connected to the Touch, and I always update it over the network, so I don't need this extra flexibility. I was worried about the memory and performance impact of EXT3. VFAT is fairly simple. EXT3 adds many features, but on the other had it's been more optimised to Linux. Lastly, I was hopping that going to EXT3 would solve some of the rync issues that I had, like the non-synchronised timestamps. 2) Experience - I connected the hard drive to my Linux system. I changed the partition type to Linux/83, and formatted as EXT3. I then copied all my music to the new partition. That was around 10k files, more than 200GB, it took a few hours. I reconnected the hard drive to the Touch. Scanning took between 30 and 35 min for 8.5k tracks, which is maybe a touch slower than it was with FAT (I've got a few more tracks since last full scan, and added more tags). Most things work as well as before, and the UI speed seem unchanged. Now rync does not need any workarounds : --- rsync -avz --delete --progress --stats -i --perms --dry-run --include="*/" --include="*.flac" --include="*.FLAC" --include="albumartsmall.jpg" --exclude="*" ~music/Music-FLAC/ root@192.168.1.100:'sda1/Music-FLAC/' --- On the other hand, I was stressing the system by running the VU meters on the Touch being the server, and the OOM killed the TinyLMS server due to running out of memory. But I think I've seen that before. I guess I'll need more time to see if it's as stable as I would like. I'll update in a few weeks... Have fun... Jean jean2's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33946 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Hi, I recently had a few troubles with TinyLMS. After tracking it down, it was due to a corruption of the FAT filesystem. This confirm what I said about backups in section (6), you can not fully trust those hard drives. 1) Symptoms - The first thing I noticed is that I was not able to copy new files to my Touch using rsync. After investigation on the Touch itself, I realised that the disk was mounted read-only : - # mount [...] /dev/sda1 on /media/sda1 type vfat (ro,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,allow_utime=17,codepage=cp437,iocharset=iso8859-1) -- I did not think about it much, I just remounted the disk read-write and copied my files. Later one, I noticed is that on other SqueezeBoxes I would not get all artwork. On the SqueezeBox Touch being the server the player would not connect to the server at all. Also, the menu line for "Logitech Media Server" was no longer available in the USB menu. And SqueezeControlXL on my tablet would not work. It started approximately just after I upgraded to 7.7.2, but that could be a coincidence... 2) Debugging - The first thing was checking the kernel message logs on the Touch itself : - # dmesg [...] CMD_RESP: cmd 0x801f error, result=0x1 FAT: Filesystem panic (dev sda1) fat_bmap_cluster: request beyond EOF (i_pos 7659214134) File system has been set read-only - Linux clearly complain that the FAT filesystem is not consistent, and that was the reason the filesystem was read-only. I removed the USB hard drive from the Touch and connected it to my Linux PC for more extensive diagnostic. I know not many people use Linux as their desktop, but similar tools are available under Windows... My first concern was about the disk itself, if some sector became bad or the disk is failing. Standard SMART diagnostics can usually answer those questions. Under Windows, I tend to use the vendor SMART utility. I checked the error logs, look for reallocated sectors, and triggered a short selftest : -- smartctl -l error /dev/sdg -d sat smartctl -t short /dev/sdg -d sat smartctl -c /dev/sdg -d sat smartctl -l selftest /dev/sdg -d sat -- Fortunately, the disk was fine. Next level up is to check the filesystem. Under Windows, you can use scandisk. The automatic pass told me about a corrupted file, I removed it and I did a manual repair pass : -- dosfsck -a -v /dev/sdg1 rm /media/TOSHIBA\ EXT/.Squeezebox/cache/artwork.db dosfsck -r -v /dev/sdg1 -- As you can see, the artwork database was the file that was corrupted at the FAT filesystem level. Quick conclusion : the hard drive was fine. The FAT filesystem was corrupted, either a bug in the Linux driver (quite unlikely) or the hard drive was powered off or disconnected during a database update (more likely). 3) Reconnecting I reconnected the USB hard drive to the Touch. The Touch did the usual scan for changes. The scanner did not find any new files so it did not rescan for artwork. I checked the system. The filesystem was mounted read-write properly and the kernel message log did not had those bad messages. On the other hand, I had lost all artwork and the server touch still could not connect to itself. I suspect that the scanner did not rebuild the artwork database and that was causing troubles. At this point, I'm fairly confident that deleting the full database would have brought me back to a fully functioning system. But I had other plans... Have fun... Jean jean2's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33946 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
treepleks;677131 Wrote: > > 1- if you want to make these changes "permanent" (resist reboot), I > would avise to create a squeezeos-boot.sh file that contains the > commands below, at the root of your disk (/media/mmcblk0p1 in your > case) Thanks very much for the script, I've been meaning to implement it, but so far have not needed to. Now that the drive has been scanned SBT does not seem to run out of memory. 2 reboots so far with no problem. Free says there is now nothing in Swap after the reboot (as expected). It takes about 10 minutes to discover new files, then it's ready to go. No major scan of the whole drive or pre-caching the artwork. I'm surprised but happy. So far, so good. -- Mr. Tuesdays Mr. Tuesdays's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=51982 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Wow... only today I happened to read through parts of this thread... The swapping sounds interesting. I think we dismissed the idea because we didn't want the listening experience to be negatively impacted, eg. playback being delayed because a codec had been swapped out etc. It'll be interesting to hear more about your experience. You should convert this posting to a wiki article (http://wiki.slimdevices.com)... or even better: an applet :-). As for the scrobbling: your description sounds reasonable. I'm surprised there has been no bug-report yet. Could you please open a ticket on bugs.slimdevices.com? Thanks! Michael Am 07.12.2011, 14:31 Uhr, schrieb treepleks : > > Preliminaries: all this has been done from a Linux box. This is also > feasible from Windows or MacOSX, you just have to adapt to your OS (ssh > client, paths). > > > I had my squezebox touch running TinySB 7.7 on a LaCie 500GB 2.5" USB > disk. I was pretty satisfied with it but > > 1) the >15000 (FLAC) tracks need a lot of server memory and I > occasionally got "oom" (out of memory) oops in the log files. > > 2) the lastfm scrobbler did not work when I was connected to the tinySB > server . > > I apparently solved the first issue (which also seems to improve the > overall interface speed a bit) by adding (virtual) memory to the > Squeezebox touch. The idea is just to create a swapfile on the USB disk > (or SD card by the way, you just need to choose the correct path to the > device instead of /dev/sda1). > > Proceed as follows: > > - enable SSH on the squeezebox > - connect to the squeezebox: ssh root@ > - download a fresh new "busybox" executable compiled for ARM on your > USB disc (available in /media/sda1) and set it as executable. > > cd /media/sda1 > mkdir bin > cd bin > wget > http://busybox.net/downloads/binaries/latest/busybox-armv6l > mv busybox-armv6l busybox > chmod a+x busybox > > This busybox binary has all bells and whistles, so it contains mkswap > and swapon. Just make this easy to access: > > ln -s busybox mkswap > ln -s busybox swapon > > Now make a 128 MB swap file (larger is useless apparently, I never > exceeded 40MB swap usage) > > dd if=/dev/zero of=swapfile bs=1M count=128 > > Then format the swapfile as swap > > ./mkswap swapfile > > Activate swap > > ./swapon swapfile > > You can check with "free" that swap is activated. To make this > resilient to reboot, you should create a "squeezeos-boot.sh" file that > contains these commands at the root of your disk (/media/sda1) > > CUT HERE > #!/bin/sh > /media/sda1/bin/mkswap /media/sda1/bin/swapfile > /media/sda1/bin/swapon /media/sda1/bin/swapfile > CUT HERE > > make this script executable > > chmod a+x /media/sda1/squeezeos-boot.sh > > This was not enough in my case. The init script that executse > squeezeos-boot.sh on every mounted device is executed too early and the > USB disk is not yet mounted at this time. I just inserted a "sleep 10" > line in /etc/init.d/rcS just before the block in charge of the > squeezeos-boot.sh execution. Boot is a little slower, but I do not boot > often :-) > > This is it, your tinySB server will never die again from oom errors (it > never did again in my case, YOMMV). > > Second: audioscrobbling > > The tinySB has the Audioscrobbler plugin, but the settings > (/etc/squeezecenter/prefs/plugin/audioscrobbler.prefs) are apparently > never updated to contain a username AND an associated MD5 hashed+salt > password for lastfm. Even if I installed the LastFM application > (pretending to live in UK to make this possible on my mysqueezebox > profile), audioscrobbling would work only when connected to an > external server or to mysqueezebox.com. Not to the tinySB. > > I found a simple blunt solution. I installed the full SB server on a PC > (running linux, but this should not be really different under other > OSes, just different paths to files) and went to advanced settings to > configure the audioscrobbler plugin with my LastFM username and > password. > > I then explored the server files on the PC to find the > "audioscrobbler.prefs" file. On Linux it is in > /var/lib/squeezecenter/prefs/plugin if I remember well. It did contain > my LastFM password (salted and hashed). > > I just copied the little rascal file on the squeezebox (use scp on > Linux or MacOSX), at the correct location > (/etc/squeezecenter/prefs/plugin/), replacing the original file (keep a > copy if you are not too confident), rebooted the squeezebox. If you then > go to advanced parameters on the SB Touch, you will see that your LastFM > account appears now as the first line in the LastFM audioscrobbler > settings, but is not activated. Just select it and...voila > > audioscrobbling works. > > -- Michael ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Mr. Tuesdays;676490 Wrote: > OK, success at last! Entire USB drive scanned, all artwork pre-cached > and the server running. No hitch, no crash. Database is now > searchable and is pretty fast. > > File scan took about 1H 30M. Over 16,000 files. The SB Touch always > under estimates the scan time by half. It said 45 minutes remaining at > first, but took about 90 minutes. This is consistent with scanning the > drive in NTFS format. The estimated 3 hours would turn into 6 hours of > scan. > > Pre-caching images didn't take too long and most importantly did not > crash the server. > The swap file grew and grew during the scan, topping out at 22 Meg. > The image pre-cache peaked at 55 Meg then dropped back down to 54 Meg > were it is now hanging. I had not done a good jog of resizing the > image files on the USB drive this time, must have been some big images > in there. > > A big thanks for to Jean for this thread and the excellent instructions > on formatting and files. And a big thanks to Treepleks for the swap > file info and encouragement. Without your help I could never have > gotten the Touch working as a stand alone player with so many files. > > Thanks also to everyone else who lent a hand. Glad to see it helps you as much as it did for me. Two extra pieces if you want: 1- if you want to make these changes "permanent" (resist reboot), I would avise to create a squeezeos-boot.sh file that contains the commands below, at the root of your disk (/media/mmcblk0p1 in your case) CUT HERE #!/bin/sh /media/mmcblk0p1/bin/busybox mkswap /media/mmcblk0p1/bin/swapfile /media/mmcblk0p1/bin/musybox swapon /media/mmcblk0p1/bin/swapfile CUT HERE and make this script executable chmod a+x /media/mmcblk0p1/squeezeos-boot.sh This was not enough in my case. The init script that executes squeezeos-boot.sh on every mounted device is executed too early and the USB disk is not yet mounted at this time. The USB key must be faster but if it is not fast enough (check with "free" after reboot), just insert a "sleep 10" line in /etc/init.d/rcS just before the block in charge of the squeezeos-boot.sh execution. With the USB disk, I actually need a "sleep 20". 2- don't eject the SD card without turning swap off using the following command: /media/mmcblk0p1/bin/busybox swapoff /media/mmcblk0p1/bin/swapfile -- treepleks treepleks's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52051 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
jean2;676732 Wrote: > And you also have to remember that the cost of many hardware components > goes down over the lifetime of the product (CPU, memory for example), > and you have to take that into your calculations. This is the reason > why Logitech has been able to reduce the price point from $300 at > launch to around $230 today. And in the case of the Touch, the delayed launch while trying to sort out TinySBS meant that the cost of the components had been dropping for well over a year before the first Touch was sold. The Touch's prolonged development meant that Moore's Law took some pretty big bites. -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
jean2;676733 Wrote:
> That's what I said, plenty of time. Those chips are pin compatible.
>
Are you suggesting that they should have let the warehouse employees
start to unpack the boxes and soldering new chips on them ?
If not, you must have some extra months in your calender that's not
available in mine...
I do agree that it should have had more memory but I don't think there
was plenty of time to start changing chips, if it would have been as
easy as you suggest and plenty of time to do it I'm pretty sure it
would have been done.
--
erland
Erland Isaksson ('My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info))
(Developer of 'many plugins/applets (both free and commercial)'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/User:Erland).
If you like to encourage future presence on this forum and/or third
party plugin/applet development, 'consider purchasing some plugins'
(http://license.isaksson.info))
Interested in music discovery ? See 'Social Music Discovery (SMD)'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?p=656713) project.
erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070
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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
aubuti;676726 Wrote:
> But less than it may seem. Units were already in distributors'
> warehouses by mid-2009.
>
And the final hardware beta testing was finished a bit before that
since the mass production had to start so the units were ready to be
shipped mid-2009.
And on top of this, the work to make the built-in server run on the
Touch had barely been started at that time, so I'm not sure Logitech
really knew how much memory it would require after the optimization.
--
erland
Erland Isaksson ('My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info))
(Developer of 'many plugins/applets (both free and commercial)'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/User:Erland).
If you like to encourage future presence on this forum and/or third
party plugin/applet development, 'consider purchasing some plugins'
(http://license.isaksson.info))
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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
aubuti;676726 Wrote: > But less than it may seem. Units were already in distributors' > warehouses by mid-2009. That's what I said, plenty of time. Those chips are pin compatible. Jean -- jean2 jean2's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33946 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Mnyb;676538 Wrote: > > Are they using the most effective programming methods to utilize this > hardware ? It's a tradeoff, over-optimising the software is not always the best strategy. I actually think they are using the most effective programming methods for the SqueezeBox product line. If you have enough engineering resources and time, sure, you can code everything in assembly language on the bare metal and be able to fit everything into ridiculously low CPU and memory footprint. However, in the real world, you want to ship in a short amount of time (time to market) with limited software resources (development team, testing team). So, you use a lot of existing software packages (Linux, Samba...) and program in a high level language (Perl, Python), both using more hardware resources (CPU, memory, network). Depending on the expected volume and price point, you will put the cursor at a different point. If your volume is very high, you can afford more engineering (large software development team) and therefore reduce the hardware cost. If your volume is lower, you want to contain the engineering cost and have to accept a higher hardware cost. At the end of the day, your widget cost depend on the hardware cost (BOM), engineering cost and support/return cost. And your sale price depend on the perceived customer value (supported features). You need to strike the right balance between all those parameters, and can't optimise a single parameter without understanding the impact on the other parameters. And you also have to remember that the cost of many hardware components goes down over the lifetime of the product (CPU, memory for example), and you have to take that into your calculations. This is the reason why Logitech has been able to reduce the price point from $300 at launch to around $230 today. Actually, I believe that Logitech is taking some risks in the long term in letting the price point on the Touch erodes. Another example of this tradeoff : for 7.6.0, it looks like Logitech optimised a bit too much the release/testing engineering ;-) Jean -- jean2 jean2's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33946 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
erland;676536 Wrote: > Built-in server was planned when hardware beta testers was introduced > (December 2008), so it was planned a long time before any official > announcements (September 2009) were made and definitely a long time > before the official product release (April 2010). > > jean2;676717 Wrote: > > That's precisely what I said, there was *plenty* of time to increase the > > memory on the Touch :> > But less than it may seem. Units were already in distributors' warehouses by mid-2009. -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
erland;676536 Wrote: > > Built-in server was planned when hardware beta testers was introduced > (December 2008), so it was planned a long time before any official > announcements (September 2009) were made and definitely a long time > before the official product release (April 2010). > That's precisely what I said, there was *plenty* of time to increase the memory on the Touch : jean2;676527 Wrote: > > Moreover, it's possible to change memory fairly late in the design, > definitely after getting first prototypes. For example, I would bet > that you could trivially replace the K4T51163QG with a K4T1G164QQ > (don't try this at home). > Those memory chips are pin compatible, so it was trivial to double the memory without having to redesign the PCB motherboard. The hard part is to reprogram the boot loader and Linux platform with the new memory configuration. Jean -- jean2 jean2's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33946 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Mnyb;676538 Wrote:
> i wonder even if you can turn off a lot of stuff in the server to make
> it fit the tiny hardware.
>
> Can it be that the requirement that it should run on the Touch is a
> limiting factor for the server .
> A lot of stuff can be tacked on as plugin much oficial stuff is plugins
> too, but anyway.
>
> i use to think that the lack of development of core functionality is
> mainly lack of dev resources ?
>
> Any one with perl knowledge ? Are they boxed in by the Touch hardware.
>
They don't limit the core functionality based on the Touch. When they
did LMS they didn't even think of the Touch until the end when they
added an option to disable the photo/video functionality when executed
on the Touch.
So the lack of new core features is because of lack of developers and
priorities. The only scenario I can think of that might have affected
the computer based server is the switch from MySQL to SQLite, that
switch would probably not have happen if the Touch server wasn't
needed. Even though the developers sometimes defend it I think the main
reason for that switch was because they needed SQLite on the Touch and
it was too expensive to maintain and test two different database
backends.
Mnyb;676538 Wrote:
>
> On the other hand is it only the chosen architechture as micro computer
> running a real OS and a lot off stuff in script form lua or perl ?
> for example TinySC on Touch has a playlist limit of 100 tracks an iPod
> with ta fraction of the cpu a Touch has can handle playlist in 1
> track sizes ?
> also PLC system with a fraction of the Touch CPU power runs large
> industrial machines in real time ?
> Are they using the most effective programming methods to utilize this
> hardware ?
>
This is the reason why the Touch server doesn't work, the architecture
and programming language is not optimized to run on slow hardware with
little memory. This is also the reason why the easiest/only realistic
way to fix the issue is to produce new hardware with faster CPU and
most importantly more memory. On slow hardware with little memory, you
need something that's fast and you need something that can dynamically
load/unload stuff depending on the current need, as I've understood
perl has issues in both these areas.
--
erland
Erland Isaksson ('My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info))
(Developer of 'many plugins/applets (both free and commercial)'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/User:Erland).
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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
i wonder even if you can turn off a lot of stuff in the server to make it fit the tiny hardware. Can it be that the requirement that it should run on the Touch is a limiting factor for the server . A lot of stuff can be tacked on as plugin much oficial stuff is plugins too, but anyway. i use to think that the lack of development of core functionality is mainly lack of dev resources ? Any one with perl knowledge ? Are they boxed in by the Touch hardware. On the other hand is it only the chosen architechture as micro computer running a real OS and a lot off stuff in script form lua or perl ? for example TinySC on Touch has a playlist limit of 100 tracks an iPod with ta fraction of the cpu a Touch has can handle playlist in 1 track sizes ? also PLC system with a fraction of the Touch CPU power runs large industrial machines in real time ? Are they using the most effective programming methods to utilize this hardware ? -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad 64gB wifi +3g with iPengHD & SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
jean2;676527 Wrote:
>
> Lastly, from what I remember, they also delayed the initial release of
> the Touch for many month, and during those months the beta tester were
> saying that the player functionality was pretty much done and the bulk
> of the work was on the internal server. If they did not intend to do
> the internal server, why delay the release just for it instead of just
> disabling the feature and shipping ? The player functionality of the
> controller did not got such attention...
>
I believe they had printed "built-in server" on the boxes before the
initially planned release date. At that time I believe the hardware was
already shipped to the various Logitech warehouses and had to sit there
for many months until the stores were allowed to put it up on the
shelves when the software/firmware was finished. Due to this it wasn't
possible to do a release without a somewhat working built-in server
included.
Built-in server was planned when hardware beta testers was introduced
(December 2008), so it was planned a long time before any official
announcements (September 2009) were made and definitely a long time
before the official product release (April 2010).
However, I still agree with John, the hardware designers probably
didn't plan to run a memory and CPU consuming perl server on the
hardware when it was designed.
--
erland
Erland Isaksson ('My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info))
(Developer of 'many plugins/applets (both free and commercial)'
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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
JohnSwenson;676496 Wrote: > > Actually its not really the hardware designers fault, from what I can > tell the hardware was never designed to be a server, it was designed as > the next genaration player, they gave it enough memory and processor > power to handle 24/96 files well. ... JohnSwenson;676496 Wrote: > This is my interpretation of what happened from piecing little scraps of > info from various developers over the years. > > John S. I don't know what the story was, I admit. But, this issue is not confined to the SB-Touch, the SB-Radio did suffer in the first year of out of memory issues, and for the SB-Radio, there was no such excuses. And Mnyb mentioned that the Controller was also suffering from memory shortage. Also, I find it hard to reconcile your story with the fact that they build both a USB port and a SD card slot in the device. If they did not intend to have a built-in server, having both is useless. So, at the time they engineered the SD slot and the USB port, they effectively had already committed to the internal server. And from their past experience putting the server on NAS, they should have known what they were getting into. Moreover, it's possible to change memory fairly late in the design, definitely after getting first prototypes. For example, I would bet that you could trivially replace the K4T51163QG with a K4T1G164QQ (don't try this at home). Lastly, from what I remember, they also delayed the initial release of the Touch for many month, and during those months the beta tester were saying that the player functionality was pretty much done and the bulk of the work was on the internal server. If they did not intend to do the internal server, why delay the release just for it instead of just disabling the feature and shipping ? The player functionality of the controller did not got such attention... So, you may be right, but IMHO the facts are telling a different story... Regards, Jean -- jean2 jean2's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33946 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
jean2;676028 Wrote: > Good to know. I was just thinking aloud. > > > > Ok, I'm convinced ;-) > > Rant mode on : hardware designers seem to always underestimate the > amount of memory required, and the SB hardware designers in particular. > The ipkg players are notorious for having their flash full, which > prevent adding new features to them. The SB-Radio in the early days was > suffering from chronic out-of-memory issues which took one year to fix > (see Amazon reviews). And let's not mention the SB-Touch, despite the > heroics of the software team, we are still bumping on the memory > limitations. > I wonder if it was a worthwhile tradeoff for SB. Sure, they save a few > cents on each unit, but then wasted a lot in engineering and products > bad reviews. In the case of the SB-Touch, this crippled one of the main > feature, and Logitech can't really sell the Touch based on its internal > server. With twice the memory, the internal server would have ended up > a totally different product. > > Jean Actually its not really the hardware designers fault, from what I can tell the hardware was never designed to be a server, it was designed as the next genaration player, they gave it enough memory and processor power to handle 24/96 files well. When they got prototypes back and started running the software on it they realized that the player was using a tiny part of the resources, so some of the programmer said, hey, I wonder if the server would run on this? So they tried, no it didn't. So then they started turning things off, triming it down etc and they finally got it working (barely). Then marketing heard that the server would actually run on the player, and low and behold it became a major feature of the Touch, and now this thing which had been just some programmers playing around became a requirement. Moral of the story, if you want to play around and see if you can get something to work on hardware that was never designed for it, NEVER EVER let marketing know about it! This is my interpretation of what happened from piecing little scraps of info from various developers over the years. John S. -- JohnSwenson JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
OK, success at last! Entire USB drive scanned, all artwork pre-cached and the server running. No hitch, no crash. Database is now searchable and is pretty fast. File scan took about 1H 30M. Over 16,000 files. The SB Touch always under estimates the scan time by half. It said 45 minutes remaining at first, but took about 90 minutes. This is consistent with scanning the drive in NTFS format. The estimated 3 hours would turn into 6 hours of scan. Pre-caching images didn't take too long and most importantly did not crash the server. The swap file grew and grew during the scan, topping out at 22 Meg. The image pre-cache peaked at 55 Meg then dropped back down to 54 Meg were it is now hanging. I had not done a good jog of resizing the image files on the USB drive this time, must have been some big images in there. A big thanks for to Jean for this thread and the excellent instructions on formatting and files. And a big thanks to Treeplecks for the swap file info and encouragement. Without your help I could never have gotten the Touch working as a stand alone player with so many files. Thanks also to everyone else who lent a hand. -- Mr. Tuesdays Mr. Tuesdays's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=51982 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
I just did and it works! Free shows non-zero for the swap file. Nothing in the buffer yet (streaming Pandora), but we'll see how it goes with the next scan. Thanks so much! -- Mr. Tuesdays Mr. Tuesdays's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=51982 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
If you still want to dig, just try the 3 lines at the end ofvmy previous post. May be the error messages will be helpful or may be..it will work :-) -- treepleks treepleks's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52051 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Now this is very strange. mkswap and swapon are no longer there. I'm sure they were before, I saw them in the list. I'm confused. :-/ +---+ |Filename: busybox-5.gif| |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12857| +---+ -- Mr. Tuesdays Mr. Tuesdays's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=51982 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Will do so. Thanks for helping me thru this. I am NOT a Unix/Linux guy. :( -- Mr. Tuesdays Mr. Tuesdays's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=51982 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Mr. Tuesdays;676069 Wrote: > I'm still hacking trying to get the swap file going. > > I have the same version of busybox that Treepleks has and can see the > same commands. There is a file called swapfile in the bin directory, > so thats OK. > However, I can't get the link command to work. Any ln -s busbox just > returns an "Operation not permitted" error. Any thoughts as to why? > Permissions wrong? > See below. Thanks. I don't fully understand why you get these messages. My idea would be that a link or a file with the same name is already there. Could you give a directory listing: ls -la /media/mmcblk0p1/bin to see contents and permissions there ? Anyway, the "ln -s" command is just a comfortable addition and is not needed to execute the applets inside busybox. There is an alternate way to call them, by just passing them as arguments to busybox. Could you go in the /media/mmcblk0p1/bin directory and just try the following calls: cd /media/mmcblk0p1/bin ./busybox mkswap swapfile ./busybox swapon swapfile and try "free" or "cat /proc/swaps" to see the result. -- treepleks treepleks's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52051 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
I'm still hacking trying to get the swap file going. I have the same version of busybox that Treepleks has and can see the same commands. There is a file called swapfile in the bin directory, so thats OK. However, I can't get the link command to work. Any ln -s busbox just returns an "Operation not permitted" error. Any thoughts as to why? Permissions wrong? See below. Thanks. +---+ |Filename: ssh-session3.jpg | |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12855| +---+ -- Mr. Tuesdays Mr. Tuesdays's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=51982 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
jean2;676028 Wrote: > Good to know. I was just thinking aloud. > > > > Ok, I'm convinced ;-) > > Rant mode on : hardware designers seem to always underestimate the > amount of memory required, and the SB hardware designers in particular. > The ipkg players are notorious for having their flash full, which > prevent adding new features to them. The SB-Radio in the early days was > suffering from chronic out-of-memory issues which took one year to fix > (see Amazon reviews). And let's not mention the SB-Touch, despite the > heroics of the software team, we are still bumping on the memory > limitations. > I wonder if it was a worthwhile tradeoff for SB. Sure, they save a few > cents on each unit, but then wasted a lot in engineering and products > bad reviews. In the case of the SB-Touch, this crippled one of the main > feature, and Logitech can't really sell the Touch based on its internal > server. With twice the memory, the internal server would have ended up > a totally different product. > > I have notes in my threads about RSync and NTP : > http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81755&highlight=rsync > http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87588&highlight=ntp > > Good luck... > > Jean you forgot the controller that is a bit to weak in both cpu and memory to actually run the internal player for the headphone stutterings is the norm with flac ;). touch was initially not able to play 24/96 files over wifi or from an atached hd it took some serius optimisations to iron that out, ( it worked fine over ethernet ) to conserve memory and cpu I would use it wired and turn of all wifi stuff at boot maybe that saves some mb off memory i also run it without samba , but you may want to add files over the network instead of detaching the hd ? It is nowadays excellent as a player thou, the internal server however cant be better unless hardware is exchanged -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad 64gB wifi +3g with iPengHD & SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ) Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
treepleks;675977 Wrote: > I have been using swap on my USB disk for more than 2 weeks now and > since this, I have not seen a single problem with the SB touch. Good to know. I was just thinking aloud. treepleks;675977 Wrote: > I got a 40MB usage at some point but 1 to 20MB is more usual. Ok, I'm convinced ;-) Rant mode on : hardware designers seem to always underestimate the amount of memory required, and the SB hardware designers in particular. The ipkg players are notorious for having their flash full, which prevent adding new features to them. The SB-Radio in the early days was suffering from chronic out-of-memory issues which took one year to fix (see Amazon reviews). And let's not mention the SB-Touch, despite the heroics of the software team, we are still bumping on the memory limitations. I wonder if it was a worthwhile tradeoff for SB. Sure, they save a few cents on each unit, but then wasted a lot in engineering and products bad reviews. In the case of the SB-Touch, this crippled one of the main feature, and Logitech can't really sell the Touch based on its internal server. With twice the memory, the internal server would have ended up a totally different product. treepleks;675977 Wrote: > BTW, does anybody knows if there is a cross compilation toolchain > available for the touch ? I have notes in my threads about RSync and NTP : http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81755&highlight=rsync http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87588&highlight=ntp Good luck... Jean -- jean2 jean2's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33946 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
I have been using swap on my USB disk for more than 2 weeks now and since this, I have not seen a single problem with the SB touch. The USB disk has never disconnected and I never had to restart tinySB either. My feeling is that most issues with tinySB with lots of tracks are memory related and swap just solves this. Note that linux swaps pages, not applications. So even if applications are monolithic, inactive pages do get swapped if needed (and free shows swap is used, I got a 40MB usage at some point but 1 to 20MB is more usual). I have now made further progress and installed 'ipkg' on my squeezebox (see http://www.optware-project.org/index.php?title=Main_Page&oldid=39 at the end for help, I used the cs08q1armel feed). I'm not totally satisfied because these are not binaries for the touch but this gives access to all optware. I installed and tried to run transmission-daemon and it does run fine. I also installed hdparm and activated the disk power management. Optware turns the touch into a sort of tiny NAS. I have not felt any side-effect on the audio quality. BTW, does anybody knows if there is a cross compilation toolchain available for the touch ? -- treepleks treepleks's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52051 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
OK, makes sense. That's exactly what I'm seeing. Wish I knew how to edit and fix the database. It's got to be close to complete. -- Mr. Tuesdays Mr. Tuesdays's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=51982 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Mr. Tuesdays;675870 Wrote: > Jean, you are very welcome! Without this thread I wold never have > gotten it working. > > LOL. That's because it's rather ambiguous in my mind. I don't know > what I did to get it working. All the other times it has scanned and > crashed I simply could not get back into the USB drive. I could not > connect to the USB library. > Somehow this time by going to My Music/Music Folder all the files and > folders are there. However I do not see anything the section Artist, > Genre, Album or Year that I have not played. I hope that's clear. > Under My Music I see: > > > > - Artists - Albums - Genres - Years - New Music - Random Mix - Music Folder - Playlists - Search - Switch Libraries> > > By going into Music Folder I can see everything arranged by my folder > structure. > But under the Album, Genres, Years sections only what I have already > played shows up. By using "music folder" you are not using the scanned database and are simply browsing the folder structure , and it actually scan just the files you cue up to play from that folder each time you select something . Thats why you only see stuff already played . Your scanned failed somewhere so you got no complete database :-/ Therefore no population in artist and album and genre menus and search would not work random would not work either. You can try to force a rescan (is there a meny somewhere ) but due to tiny cpu and memory do this overnigth don't use the player while scanning ! -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad 64gB wifi +3g with iPengHD & SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ) Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Jean, you are very welcome! Without this thread I wold never have gotten it working. jean2 Wrote: > What you say is somewhat ambiguous. LOL. That's because it's rather ambiguous in my mind. I don't know what I did to get it working. All the other times it has scanned and crashed I simply could not get back into the USB drive. I could not connect to the USB library. Somehow this time by going to My Music/Music Folder all the files and folders are there. However I do not see anything the section Artist, Genre, Album or Year that I have not played. I hope that's clear. Under My Music I see: - Artists - Albums - Genres - Years - New Music - Random Mix - Music Folder - Playlists - Search - Switch Libraries By going into Music Folder I can see everything arranged by my folder structure. But under the Album, Genres, Years sections only what I have already played shows up. -- Mr. Tuesdays Mr. Tuesdays's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=51982 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Mr. Tuesdays;675515 Wrote: > > In any case, the reformatted USB drive is now humming along on the > Touch while it scans the files. It appears to be much faster, > estimating a 90 minute scan of the files, not 5 hours. Wow ! That's quite dramatic ! Mr. Tuesdays;675515 Wrote: > Is that because of the FAT32 format, or because I stumbled into getting > the swap file to work? I don't know but am keeping figures crossed > that this time the scan goes well. > I would suspect that on the Touch, swap would not improve performance much, it's main effect would be to avoid running out of memory. The reason I'm conjecturing this is that the squeeze server application is monolithic, and apart from that there is only a few tiny daemons, so there is not much inactive memory that you could push into the swap. The exception would be if you have enabled Samba (file sharing). On the other hand, if you put active memory in the swap, it will usually go slower due to paging. This is a guess. It would take some work to verify this. Personally, I'm worried that using the swap on the long term would make the system less reliable. I've seen the USB drive sometime disconnecting or being very slow to answer, that would put the system in a bind. Putting the swap on a SD card would seem less risky and more practical, but may eventually kill the SD card, the number of write cycles on SD/Flash is limited, and swap may create too much activity. So, my suggestion would be to enable to swap only during the scan, and remove it once scan is done. From my experience, scan is usually the only part that is likely to run out of memory. Mr. Tuesdays;675841 Wrote: > Thanks Treepleks. I followed the exact link you gave for busybox, but I > don't see all those commands. Will check again. Also "Free" shows all > 0 (zeros) for Swap. > It would be nice if you could give an exact dump of the text, the devil is sometimes in the detail. But, from what you say, I'm assuming swap is not enabled. Mr. Tuesdays;675841 Wrote: > But the USB drive is running, miracle of miracles. All 16K+ files, most > with embedded artwork. It did crash after the scan, but I just pointed > it back to the USB driver and it connected. Can find and play locally > or remotely via SqueezePlay. Success! Let's see if it holds. What you say is somewhat ambiguous. I'm assuming that after the crash, when you enabled the server on the USB, it did a quick scan that terminated properly. I'm also assuming you are using the local server. Do you know what it did in the scan after the restart, how many file were rescanned ? I think what helped you was moving to FAT32. I guessed it would make a difference, I did not expect the difference to be that dramatic. It's encouraging, because it means that I have room to grow (I'm a 8k tracks). Thanks for your experimentation ! Jean -- jean2 jean2's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33946 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Thanks Treepleks. I followed the exact link you gave for busybox, but I don't see all those commands. Will check again. Also "Free" shows all 0 (zeros) for Swap. But the USB drive is running, miracle of miracles. All 16K+ files, most with embedded artwork. It did crash after the scan, but I just pointed it back to the USB driver and it connected. Can find and play locally or remotely via SqueezePlay. Success! Let's see if it holds. I'll keep trying for the swap file, thanks for your help. -- Mr. Tuesdays Mr. Tuesdays's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=51982 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
BTW, to check if swap is indeed activated, the "free" command should show something like this: # free total used free shared buffers Mem:125848 123244 26040 1720 -/+ buffers: 121524 4324 Swap: 239992 56 239936 where Swap: is followed by non zero numbers. Here just 56kb of swap are used but I saw this raising to 4 once. 2 is usual. Your numbers will be different, but should be non zero. -- treepleks treepleks's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52051 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Mr. Tuesdays;675515 Wrote: > yes, I did CD into bin. pwd I think told me root, which didn't make any > sense, cause I shouldn't be able to see busybox in root. Should I? You > can see the results of "ls" at the top of the terminal window. > > In any case, the reformatted USB drive is now humming along on the > Touch while it scans the files. It appears to be much faster, > estimating a 90 minute scan of the files, not 5 hours. Is that because > of the FAT32 format, or because I stumbled into getting the swap file to > work? I don't know but am keeping figures crossed that this time the > scan goes well. > > Thanks for the guidance! Apparently, the "mkswap" and "swapon" commands did not work in your log file. The message "applet not foun" is a message from busybox is telling you that it does not know about these 2 commands. My two hints: Did you download the correct busybox (see the link on my original post). To check this, go the the bin directory directory you created cd /media/mmcblk0p1/bin and type ./busybox This should print out the list of all the "applets" it knows. hre is the output I get: # ./busybox BusyBox v1.19.0 (2011-08-14 23:46:58 CDT) multi-call binary. Copyright (C) 1998-2011 Erik Andersen, Rob Landley, Denys Vlasenko and others. Licensed under GPLv2. See source distribution for full notice. Usage: busybox [function] [arguments]... or: busybox --list[-full] or: function [arguments]... BusyBox is a multi-call binary that combines many common Unix utilities into a single executable. Most people will create a link to busybox for each function they wish to use and BusyBox will act like whatever it was invoked as. Currently defined functions: [, [[, acpid, add-shell, addgroup, adduser, adjtimex, arp, arping, ash, awk, base64, basename, beep, blkid, blockdev, bootchartd, brctl, bunzip2, bzcat, bzip2, cal, cat, catv, chat, chattr, chgrp, chmod, chown, chpasswd, chpst, chroot, chrt, chvt, cksum, clear, cmp, comm, cp, cpio, crond, crontab, cryptpw, cttyhack, cut, date, dc, dd, deallocvt, delgroup, deluser, depmod, devmem, df, dhcprelay, diff, dirname, dmesg, dnsd, dnsdomainname, dos2unix, du, dumpkmap, dumpleases, echo, ed, egrep, eject, env, envdir, envuidgid, ether-wake, expand, expr, fakeidentd, false, fbset, fbsplash, fdflush, fdformat, fdisk, fgconsole, fgrep, find, findfs, flock, fold, free, freeramdisk, fsck, fsck.minix, fsync, ftpd, ftpget, ftpput, fuser, getopt, getty, grep, groups, gunzip, gzip, halt, hd, hdparm, head, hexdump, hostid, hostname, httpd, hush, hwclock, id, ifconfig, ifdown, ifenslave, ifplugd, ifup, inetd, init, insmod, install, ionice, iostat, ip, ipaddr, ipcalc, ipcrm, ipcs, iplink, iproute, iprule, iptunnel, kbd_mode, kill, killall, killall5, klogd, last, less, linux32, linux64, linuxrc, ln, loadfont, loadkmap, logger, login, logname, logread, losetup, lpd, lpq, lpr, ls, lsattr, lsmod, lspci, lsusb, lzcat, lzma, lzop, lzopcat, makedevs, makemime, man, md5sum, mdev, mesg, microcom, mkdir, mkdosfs, mke2fs, mkfifo, mkfs.ext2, mkfs.minix, mkfs.vfat, mknod, mkpasswd, mkswap, mktemp, modinfo, modprobe, more, mount, mountpoint, mpstat, mt, mv, nameif, nbd-client, nc, netstat, nice, nmeter, nohup, nslookup, ntpd, od, openvt, passwd, patch, pgrep, pidof, ping, ping6, pipe_progress, pivot_root, pkill, pmap, popmaildir, poweroff, powertop, printenv, printf, ps, pscan, pstree, pwd, pwdx, raidautorun, rdate, rdev, readahead, readlink, readprofile, realpath, reboot, reformime, remove-shell, renice, reset, resize, rev, rm, rmdir, rmmod, route, rpm, rpm2cpio, rtcwake, run-parts, runlevel, runsv, runsvdir, rx, script, scriptreplay, sed, sendmail, seq, setarch, setconsole, setfont, setkeycodes, setlogcons, setserial, setsid, setuidgid, sh, sha1sum, sha256sum, sha512sum, showkey, slattach, sleep, smemcap, softlimit, sort, split, start-stop-daemon, stat, strings, stty, su, sulogin, sum, sv, svlogd, swapoff, swapon, switch_root, sync, sysctl, syslogd, tac, tail, tar, tcpsvd, tee, telnet, telnetd, test, tftp, tftpd, time, timeout, top, touch, tr, traceroute, traceroute6, true, tty, ttysize, tunctl, ubiattach, ubidetach, ubimkvol, ubirmvol, ubirsvol, ubiupdatevol, udhcpc, udhcpd, udpsvd, umount, uname, unexpand, uniq, unix2dos, unlzma, unlzop, unxz, unzip, uptime, users, usleep, uudecode, uuencode, vconfig, vi, vlock, volname, wall, watch, watchdog, wc, wget, which, who, whoami, whois, xargs, xz, xzcat, yes, zcat, zcip You can see mkswap and swapon in the list Just tell me if you have the same output and if yes we will dig further. Good luck -- treepleks -
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
yes, I did CD into bin. pwd I think told me root, which didn't make any sense, cause I shouldn't be able to see busybox in root. Should I? You can see the results of "ls" at the top of the terminal window. In any case, the reformatted USB drive is now humming along on the Touch while it scans the files. It appears to be much faster, estimating a 90 minute scan of the files, not 5 hours. Is that because of the FAT32 format, or because I stumbled into getting the swap file to work? I don't know but am keeping figures crossed that this time the scan goes well. Thanks for the guidance! -- Mr. Tuesdays Mr. Tuesdays's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=51982 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Did you 'cd' into the bin directory after you created it? Type a pwd to see what your present working directory is. If it is indeed the bin directory then type an "ls -l" to list the contents. Too bad we can't scroll up in the screenshots of your terminal window -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Now that I'm typing right (haven't used command line years) things are going better. Bin directory created Busybox downloaded and renamed permissions changed swap file made (I think) But then turning it on has stalled. See session below. I'd love to have the extra memory if possible. Now reformatting the USB drive to FAT32 and will music back onto it. Should be ready this evening after work. +---+ |Filename: session2.jpg | |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12840| +---+ -- Mr. Tuesdays Mr. Tuesdays's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=51982 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Ha! I figures it was something stupid. Glad I asked. -- Mr. Tuesdays Mr. Tuesdays's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=51982 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Warning: open your hand before slapping forehead You need a space after the cd command, eg, cd /media/mmcblk0p1 -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
jean2;675226 Wrote: > You can format a hard drive to Win32 in Win-XP either using the command > line or via third party tools. Google is your friend. Yep. I'll try that. It's a long process formating and moving the files. Many hours as this little USB drive is no speed demon. Trying to make a swap file on an DS card, but can't. What am I doing wrong? I installed the SD card and it shows up, but I can't get to it. See SSH session below. Where is my syntax wrong? When the USB HDD is connected it shows up as too, but I can't get there. I did manage to get in once via an SCP client (WinSCP) Made a "bin" directory on the SD card and put busybox in there. But have not been able to get back in there thru the DCP client, it won't connect. SSH (Putty) logs in, but I can't seem to change directories. mmcblk0p1 is the card. What am I doing wrong? +---+ |Filename: ssh-session.jpg | |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12838| +---+ -- Mr. Tuesdays Mr. Tuesdays's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=51982 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Mr. Tuesdays;675212 Wrote: > > > > > - Wiped the USB hard drive and reformatted. Win XP would allow only > an NTFS format of this 500 gig drive.> > > > You can format a hard drive to Win32 in Win-XP either using the > command line or via third party tools. Google is your friend. > > > Mr. Tuesdays;675212 Wrote: > > It mostly seems to crash when pre-caching art. Maybe some more file > > clean up and Treepleks tweaks will make this work.> > > > I personally don't have any artwork embedded in files, so it may be > something to look into. > > Good luck... > > Jean -- jean2 jean2's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33946 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Excellent post indeed! Many thanks for that, there is so much good info there. The OOM messages in the log file are a big help for me. I can now see where things went wrong and try to fix them. The log file shows which files where causing problems. I will also install a small SD card to use as virtual memory. Just as a progress report - I'm still almost there. - Wiped the USB hard drive and reformatted. Win XP would allow only an NTFS format of this 500 gig drive. - Made sure that there were no "odd" files on the drive. Deleted all cue, txt, pdf, doc, midi, mov, mpg, ape, ect files. (how did all those get there?) - Resized all art to no more than 250x250. - Cleaned out all but one jpeg per folder. Sometimes I had extra art, like back covers. I noticed TinySB was making dups of the extra files, so I cleaned that up. TinySB takes about 15 minutes to "Discover" all 16803 tracks. It takes about 5 hours to scan them all. It mostly seems to crash when pre-caching art. Maybe some more file clean up and Treepleks tweaks will make this work. -- Mr. Tuesdays Mr. Tuesdays's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=51982 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Welcome to the forums, and excellent first post! -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Preliminaries: all this has been done from a Linux box. This is also feasible from Windows or MacOSX, you just have to adapt to your OS (ssh client, paths). I had my squezebox touch running TinySB 7.7 on a LaCie 500GB 2.5" USB disk. I was pretty satisfied with it but 1) the >15000 (FLAC) tracks need a lot of server memory and I occasionally got "oom" (out of memory) oops in the log files. 2) the lastfm scrobbler did not work when I was connected to the tinySB server . I apparently solved the first issue (which also seems to improve the overall interface speed a bit) by adding (virtual) memory to the Squeezebox touch. The idea is just to create a swapfile on the USB disk (or SD card by the way, you just need to choose the correct path to the device instead of /dev/sda1). Proceed as follows: - enable SSH on the squeezebox - connect to the squeezebox: ssh root@ - download a fresh new "busybox" executable compiled for ARM on your USB disc (available in /media/sda1) and set it as executable. cd /media/sda1 mkdir bin cd bin wget http://busybox.net/downloads/binaries/latest/busybox-armv6l mv busybox-armv6l busybox chmod a+x busybox This busybox binary has all bells and whistles, so it contains mkswap and swapon. Just make this easy to access: ln -s busybox mkswap ln -s busybox swapon Now make a 128 MB swap file (larger is useless apparently, I never exceeded 40MB swap usage) dd if=/dev/zero of=swapfile bs=1M count=128 Then format the swapfile as swap ./mkswap swapfile Activate swap ./swapon swapfile You can check with "free" that swap is activated. To make this resilient to reboot, you should create a "squeezeos-boot.sh" file that contains these commands at the root of your disk (/media/sda1) CUT HERE #!/bin/sh /media/sda1/bin/mkswap /media/sda1/bin/swapfile /media/sda1/bin/swapon /media/sda1/bin/swapfile CUT HERE make this script executable chmod a+x /media/sda1/squeezeos-boot.sh This was not enough in my case. The init script that executse squeezeos-boot.sh on every mounted device is executed too early and the USB disk is not yet mounted at this time. I just inserted a "sleep 10" line in /etc/init.d/rcS just before the block in charge of the squeezeos-boot.sh execution. Boot is a little slower, but I do not boot often :-) This is it, your tinySB server will never die again from oom errors (it never did again in my case, YOMMV). Second: audioscrobbling The tinySB has the Audioscrobbler plugin, but the settings (/etc/squeezecenter/prefs/plugin/audioscrobbler.prefs) are apparently never updated to contain a username AND an associated MD5 hashed+salt password for lastfm. Even if I installed the LastFM application (pretending to live in UK to make this possible on my mysqueezebox profile), audioscrobbling would work only when connected to an external server or to mysqueezebox.com. Not to the tinySB. I found a simple blunt solution. I installed the full SB server on a PC (running linux, but this should not be really different under other OSes, just different paths to files) and went to advanced settings to configure the audioscrobbler plugin with my LastFM username and password. I then explored the server files on the PC to find the "audioscrobbler.prefs" file. On Linux it is in /var/lib/squeezecenter/prefs/plugin if I remember well. It did contain my LastFM password (salted and hashed). I just copied the little rascal file on the squeezebox (use scp on Linux or MacOSX), at the correct location (/etc/squeezecenter/prefs/plugin/), replacing the original file (keep a copy if you are not too confident), rebooted the squeezebox. If you then go to advanced parameters on the SB Touch, you will see that your LastFM account appears now as the first line in the LastFM audioscrobbler settings, but is not activated. Just select it and...voila audioscrobbling works. -- treepleks treepleks's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52051 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Getting to the USB stick turned out to be easy. I just went to Options on the Touch and turned on Sharing. Simple. Now the Touch shows up like any other computer on the network and its drives are visible. Pretty darn easy. I was able to drag and drop a music folder from the laptop to the USB stick on the touch. -- Mr. Tuesdays Mr. Tuesdays's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=51982 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Great, thanks all. If I can figure out the network path to the USB drive on the touch, I should be able to update it with new stuff. Just gotta figure out where it is and point the sync program to it. I don't mind the laptop as a controller, it's here anyway. Would be fun to use my old Dell Pocket PC but I doubt there's an app for Windows Mobile. ;) What I DO like is the SB remote. It's much faster to pick it up to change volume or pause (mute) than to go thru a device that may have to wake up and think about it. That's one of the big reasons I bought the SB touch. -- Mr. Tuesdays Mr. Tuesdays's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=51982 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Mr. Tuesdays;674795 Wrote: > All the different names, servers and controllers are confusing to a poor > newb. :-/ Ain't that the truth. And just to keep you on your toes, they like to change the name of the server every 457 days. Glad to hear you've got it working okay. Enjoy, and do consider something smaller than a laptop eventually. -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
"Now to try sixteen thousand tracks off a USB drive. Fingers crossed. It might take all night to scan that." I used to run my Touch this way w a 1TB Toshiba Canvio portable drive. It ran fine though updating the database and rescanning was a pain. I was unaware of the Samba thing and not sure how good I would be at implementing it anyway. I then got a router and set up a network. Works like a charm. I had approx 18K FLAC files w imbedded artwork (150 x 150 pixels or less) Scan took about 45min to 1 hr. I was using and still am using SBS 7.5.3. From what I understand the newer versions scan quicker but am not sure how that might be affected by Tiny SBS. Keep on enjoying !! -- dasmueller dasmueller's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=38035 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Mr. Tuesdays;674800 Wrote: > How do those of you who have this running get new files onto the USB > drive? > I saw back in post #32 that Rktdi says: > > Is there a way to get files to the USB drive thru the network? That > would be great. Official way is via Samba, which export a Windows share you can mount on Windows and Linux. I did that successfully. It needs to be enabled in the advanced options. You may be able to use file synchronisation over that mounted share. I personally use rsync over the SSH server. For this, you need to enable remote SSH login access and install rsync on the Touch. I've got a thread on the subject. Good luck... Jean -- jean2 jean2's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33946 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Mr. Tuesdays;674800 Wrote: > How do those of you who have this running get new files onto the USB > drive? > I saw back in post #32 that Rktdi says: > > Is there a way to get files to the USB drive thru the network? That > would be great. yes there is, but someone else will need to chime in on how. -- garym Location 1: Vortexbox Appliance 6TB (1.10) > SbS 7.6.2 > Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) Location 2: Win7(64) laptop > LMS 7.7.1 > Touch>Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio and laptop) Retired: SB3, Duet Receiver Controlled at both locations with: iPhone (iPeng), iPad (iPengHD & SqueezePad), CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.7 on Win7(64) laptop Ripping (FLAC) - dbpoweramp, Additional Tagging - mp3tag garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
How do those of you who have this running get new files onto the USB drive? I saw back in post 32 that Rktdi says: > I keep the stick updated, by syncing my PC over the network, using > SyncBack works fine. Is there a way to get files to the USB drive thru the network? That would be great. -- Mr. Tuesdays Mr. Tuesdays's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=51982 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Mr. Tuesdays;674795 Wrote: > SqueezePlay is working great. Can play here (laptop) or there (Touch) > no problem. Internet radio and Pandora work great, too. Thanks so > much for that. > All the different names, servers and controllers are confusing to a > poor newb. :-/ > > Now to try sixteen thousand tracks off a USB drive. Fingers crossed. > It might take all night to scan that. And definitely let it really run (probably all night). If you try to start doing things before the full scan runs, it seems to cause problems. And as you already know, it is best if you have ONLY your music and album art files and nothing else, have only a single partition on the drive, and don't plan on removing the drive very often (as this will require a new complete scan...) -- garym Location 1: Vortexbox Appliance 6TB (1.10) > SbS 7.6.2 > Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) Location 2: Win7(64) laptop > LMS 7.7.1 > Touch>Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio and laptop) Retired: SB3, Duet Receiver Controlled at both locations with: iPhone (iPeng), iPad (iPengHD & SqueezePad), CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.7 on Win7(64) laptop Ripping (FLAC) - dbpoweramp, Additional Tagging - mp3tag garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
SqueezePlay is working great. Can play here (laptop) or there (Touch) no problem. Internet radio and Pandora work great, too. Thanks so much for that. All the different names, servers and controllers are confusing to a poor newb. :-/ Now to try sixteen thousand tracks off a USB drive. Fingers crossed. It might take all night to scan that. -- Mr. Tuesdays Mr. Tuesdays's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=51982 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Mr. Tuesdays;674786 Wrote: > Gary, Jean. Will try that ASAP. Thanks. jean notes that SP is a problem on linux. I can report that on my win7 or winXP machines, SP works very nicely -- garym Location 1: Vortexbox Appliance 6TB (1.10) > SbS 7.6.2 > Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) Location 2: Win7(64) laptop > LMS 7.7.1 > Touch>Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio and laptop) Retired: SB3, Duet Receiver Controlled at both locations with: iPhone (iPeng), iPad (iPengHD & SqueezePad), CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.7 on Win7(64) laptop Ripping (FLAC) - dbpoweramp, Additional Tagging - mp3tag garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Mr. Tuesdays;674781 Wrote: > > However, I don't see the SB touch anywhere on the network, so don't > know how to control it. If Logitech Server (v7.7.0) is running on > another computer it will show up as a UPnP device. If the Touch is > connected to that library, then it can be controlled as a DLNA device > or directly thru Logitech server. All as it should be, right? > The server on TinySB does not tun the web server or UPnP/DLNA. But it is on the network. You can SSH to it (if SSH is enabled), copy file to it (if Samba file sharing is enabled). And control it using an application talking the SB client protocol. For example, I can control the SB-Touch from my SB-Radio. Have fun... Jean -- jean2 jean2's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33946 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Okay, it sounds like you're getting along better than I suspected. Good. You say you can't see the Touch on the network. How are you looking for it? Try this. Install SqueezePlay on your laptop. It is perpetual-beta free software from Logitech that emulates the Touch on your pc. You can download it from here, just pick the version of SqueezePlay (not Logitech Media Server) that matches your platform: http://downloads.slimdevices.com/nightly/?ver=7.7 Then in SqueezePlay, try to connect to the Touch. Normally it should see the Touch's server running on the network, but if not then you may have to give it the Touch's IP address. This is exactly analogous to how you first connected the Touch to your pc running LMS. One thing to be aware of: like the Touch itself, SqueezePlay is both a player and a controller. That is, it will play music, or it will control other Squeezeboxes. In your case, you want the latter. So you have to go to the Choose Player menu item in SqueezePlay and choose the Touch (instead of SqueezePlay itself). Then it will be as if you have the Touch's screen right in your lap, and the sound will come out of your Touch (and stereo). Hope this helps. -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Gary, Jean. Will try that ASAP. Thanks. -- Mr. Tuesdays Mr. Tuesdays's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=51982 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Mr. Tuesdays;674781 Wrote: > Correct Aubuti, that's how I've been running, with the server on a PC. > I understand most of it, but don't understand the capabilities of > TinySB. > > Now running TinySB just fine off a USB stick (FAT32)with 250 files. > Squeezebox (TinySB) server is running and connected to the the USB > library. Works just fine. > However, I don't see the SB touch anywhere on the network, so don't > know how to control it. If Logitech Server (v7.7.0) is running on > another computer it will show up as a UPnP device. If the Touch is > connected to that library, then it can be controlled as a DLNA device > or directly thru Logitech server. All as it should be, right? > > I just can't see the Touch running TinySB on the network at all. > > This is the part that has me puzzled as I can't see the Touch on the > network when it's running its internal server. But that's kinda OT for > this thread, so it best if I look more in the networking threads and > don't threadjack here. If you can point me to any threads like that, > it would be a help. Thanks! have you installed SqueezePlay then gone to the menu of squeezeplay and selected "CHOOSE PLAYER" and seen whether the TOUCH shows up there? Also, while doing all this stuff, I'd STOP LMS that is running on your computer as that will just confuse you as to which server you are using/seeing. -- garym Location 1: Vortexbox Appliance 6TB (1.10) > SbS 7.6.2 > Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) Location 2: Win7(64) laptop > LMS 7.7.1 > Touch>Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio and laptop) Retired: SB3, Duet Receiver Controlled at both locations with: iPhone (iPeng), iPad (iPengHD & SqueezePad), CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.7 on Win7(64) laptop Ripping (FLAC) - dbpoweramp, Additional Tagging - mp3tag garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Mr. Tuesdays;674656 Wrote: > I'm yet another optimist who wants to run 16,000 FLAC files off an > attached USB drive. I wish you good luck, that's a lot of files. Mr. Tuesdays;674656 Wrote: > TinySB takes a very long time to scan it, but then poops out. It may be wise to investigate that deeper. I think there is a way to enable debug logging in TinySB, then you could look at which phase of the scan is problematic and report that to the dev. Mr. Tuesdays;674656 Wrote: > Add to my optimism the fact that I want to control the touch from my > laptop and either a web interface or ideally JRiver Media Player and it > all becomes a real challenge. Will let you know how I get on. You probably know already that TinySB does not have the web interface. So, you will need an application that talk the SB protocol (as a client). I managed to run SqueezePlay successfully on my Linux box, but it was problematic UI wise and not well polished. I heard that for MS Windows, Moose is an application that should support the SB protocol. As it does not run in Linux, I have not tried it yet, and I believe it was tested negatively with TinySC : http://www.rusticrhino.com/drlovegrove/ http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76700&page=2 Lastly, I believe that most phone and tablet apps should work. I'm personally using SqueezeControlXL on an HP TouchPad. Good luck, Jean -- jean2 jean2's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33946 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Correct, that's how I've been running, with the server on a PC. I understand most of it, but don't understand the capabilities of TinySB. Now running TinySB just fine off a USB stick (FAT32)with 250 files. Squeezebox server is running and connected to the the USB library. Works just fine. However, I don't see the SB touch anywhere on the network, so don't know how to control it. If Logitech Server (v7.7.0) is running on another computer it will show up as a UPnP device. If the Touch is connected to that library, then it can be controlled as a DLNA device or directly thru Logitech server. All as it should be, right? I just can't see the Touch running TinySB on the network at all. > Under the second option, you attach a drive directly to the Touch. For > this, you do not need a computer or NAS to be running. You can control > Touch from all of the same devices mentioned above EXCEPT the web ui. > If you really want to use your laptop, you can use SqueezePlay. This is the part that has me puzzled as I can't see the Touch on the network when it's running its internal server. But that's kinda OT for this thread, so it best if I look more in the networking threads and don't threadjack here. If you can point me to any threads like that, it would be a help. Thanks! -- Mr. Tuesdays Mr. Tuesdays's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=51982 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Mr. Tuesdays;674755 Wrote: > OK, got it, thanks. > > I "thought" I had been able to control the Touch via the new Logitech > Server running on my laptop. Maybe not, will have to try it with a USB > stick and just a few files. > > Jean is doing something different it seems, controlling TinySB thru the > touchscreen, as it was meant to do. I was hoping for the "Ultimate > Couch Potato Mode" controlling TinySB from my laptop. Yes, I mostly use my Touch via the built-in touchscreen. Actually, it's mostly my two young kids picking the music nowadays... A few month ago, I picked up a HP TouchPad (10 inch table) and I installed SqueezeControllerXL on it. It works really well with TinySB, only a bit slow when loading the database. It's the ultimate couch-potato solution, however I never have time to play couch-potato, I'm always having something to do. I'm a bit irritated that I can't use the missing web interface from my Linux boxes, but not enough to change my setup. Good luck... Jean -- jean2 jean2's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33946 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Mr. Tuesdays;674755 Wrote: > OK, got it, thanks. > > I "thought" I had been able to control the Touch via the new Logitech > Server running on my laptop. Maybe not, will have to try it with a USB > stick and just a few files. > > Jean is doing something different it seems, controlling TinySB thru the > touchscreen, as it was meant to do. I was hoping for the "Ultimate > Couch Potato Mode" controlling TinySB from my laptop. With all respect, I'm still not sure you've got it. The Touch needs a server. And it can only have one server at a time. That server can be LMS running on your laptop, or it can be the Touch's built-in server (aka TinySBS). Under the first option (which sounds like what you've doing), the server software (LMS) is on a pc, and the music library is either on that pc or on another computer or NAS on the network. With this fully-equipped LMS you can control the Touch using the web ui from any computer on the network, or the Touch's touchscreen, or the IR remote, or numerous other devices such as iPhones or Android devices or iPads. It works solidly for most people. Under the second option, you attach a drive directly to the Touch. For this, you do not need a computer or NAS to be running. You can control Touch from all of the same devices mentioned above EXCEPT the web ui. If you really want to use your laptop, you can use SqueezePlay. Btw, if you really want to do "Ultimate Couch Potato", you should forget about controlling the Touch via a laptop. A laptop is far too big and clunky to be comfortable on the couch. Get a refurbished iPod Touch and the iPeng software and you will be a much more comfortable potato. Besides, you said earlier that you don't want to run another pc. In this case, that "another pc" is your laptop. But first, really get the Touch's built-in server (TinySBS) working to your satisfaction. -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Mr. Tuesdays;674755 Wrote: > OK, got it, thanks. > > I "thought" I had been able to control the Touch via the new Logitech > Server running on my laptop. Maybe not, will have to try it with a USB > stick and just a few files. > > Jean is doing something different it seems, controlling TinySB thru the > touchscreen, as it was meant to do. I was hoping for the "Ultimate > Couch Potato Mode" controlling TinySB from my laptop. you were controlling the touch AS LONG AS YOU WERE RUNNING SBS/LMS ON YOUR COMPUTER. As I said earlier, you can control TOUCH from laptop even if using TinySbS if you install SqueezePlay on your laptop. I prefer it to the webGUI of SbS/LMS anyhow. -- garym Location 1: Vortexbox Appliance 6TB (1.10) > SbS 7.6.2 > Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) Location 2: Win7(64) laptop > LMS 7.7.1 > Touch>Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio and laptop) Retired: SB3, Duet Receiver Controlled at both locations with: iPhone (iPeng), iPad (iPengHD & SqueezePad), CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.7 on Win7(64) laptop Ripping (FLAC) - dbpoweramp, Additional Tagging - mp3tag garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
OK, got it, thanks. I "thought" I had been able to control the Touch via the new Logitech Server running on my laptop. Maybe not, will have to try it with a USB stick and just a few files. Jean is doing something different it seems, controlling TinySB thru the touchscreen, as it was meant to do. I was hoping for the "Ultimate Couch Potato Mode" controlling TinySB from my laptop. -- Mr. Tuesdays Mr. Tuesdays's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=51982 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Mr. Tuesdays;674712 Wrote: > Actually I've had OK luck controlling the touch from the laptop. JRiver > is working (with one flaw) and SB server also works from the laptop in > its web incarnation. MySqueezbox.com's little web remote works, too. I > don't know much about SqueezePlay, will look into it. > > The trouble is that the music files have to be on another computer. > I'd rather they just be on USB drive attached to the touch. We'll see > what happens with a HDD reformat. I think you completely missed my point. Using the Touch running regular SBS (ie, on a computer or NAS) requires no luck -- it's dead simple, reliable, and robust for most people. And of course with regular SBS you have access to the web interface. My points are that (a) TinySBS (the Touch's built-in SBS) is _not_ robut and requires both care and some luck, and (b) the web interface is completely unavailable when using TinySBS. -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Mr. Tuesdays;674712 Wrote: > Actually I've had OK luck controlling the touch from the laptop. JRiver > is working (with one flaw) and SB server also works from the laptop in > its web incarnation. MySqueezbox.com's little web remote works, too. > > The trouble is that the music files have to be on another computer. > I'd rather they just be on USB drive attached to the touch. We'll see > what happens with a HDD reformat. so the way you are using it is NOT the tinySbS in the TOUCH. Instead you are running SbS/LMS on a computer (with your music files). And if the TOUCH is instead connected to mysqueezebox.com, you can control with the mysb.com web control. (Note that one uses either local SbS/LMS or mysb.com (SbS/LMS "in the cloud"), but not both at the same time. Once you are using tinySbS (with files on attached USB drive), you won't have access to either of the control points you mention. But if you want to control from laptop, you can install SqueezePlay on laptop, choose player within squeezeplay as the TOUCH, and control with that. Download Squeezeplay here: http://downloads.slimdevices.com/nightly/?ver=7.7 -- garym Location 1: Vortexbox Appliance 6TB (1.10) > SbS 7.6.2 > Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) Location 2: Win7(64) laptop > LMS 7.7.1 > Touch>Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio and laptop) Retired: SB3, Duet Receiver Controlled at both locations with: iPhone (iPeng), iPad (iPengHD & SqueezePad), CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.7 on Win7(64) laptop Ripping (FLAC) - dbpoweramp, Additional Tagging - mp3tag garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Actually I've had OK luck controlling the touch from the laptop. JRiver is working (with one flaw) and SB server also works from the laptop in its web incarnation. MySqueezbox.com's little web remote works, too. I don't know much about SqueezePlay, will look into it. The trouble is that the music files have to be on another computer. I'd rather they just be on USB drive attached to the touch. We'll see what happens with a HDD reformat. -- Mr. Tuesdays Mr. Tuesdays's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=51982 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Mr. Tuesdays;674656 Wrote: > Add to my optimism the fact that I want to control the touch from my > laptop and either a web interface or ideally JRiver Media Player and it > all becomes a real challenge. Will let you know how I get on. Good luck getting TinySBS to work for you. If you have followed Jean's tips then you have a better chance than most. But it's still somewhat a roll of the dice. I do find it confusing that you want to control the Touch via a web interface on your laptop. Are you aware that one of the limitations of TinySBS is that it does not offer the standard SBS web interface? One of the things that makes TinySBS "tiny" is that SBS's built-in web server is disabled. You could control the Touch from your laptop using SqueezePlay, which mimics the Touch's menus. Or maybe you could use some 3rd party software such as JRiver Media or Media Monkey. -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
I'm yet another optimist who wants to run 16,000 FLAC files off an attached USB drive. Don't want to run another PC or even a NAS for many of the same reasons that others have already stated. And it almost works, almost. I have a Seagate HDD that's been very good otherwise. TinySB takes a very long time to scan it, but then poops out. Sometimes a few tracks will show up, sometimes not, or the server crashes. I've cleaned and rescanned a few time to no avail. So at the moment I'm running SB server on a PC and not using the USB drive. But like many here I would really love a stand alone player that also has Internet radio, Pandora, etc. I will reformat the drive to FAT32 (it's NTFS now) and clean up any cue or other odd files. I do embed my art in the music tracks, so we'll see if that works. Add to my optimism the fact that I want to control the touch from my laptop and either a web interface or ideally JRiver Media Player and it all becomes a real challenge. Will let you know how I get on. -- Mr. Tuesdays Mr. Tuesdays's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=51982 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
Hi, I think it's time for a quick update... A few weeks ago, I updated to 7.6.1. I had terrible time with the initial full scan, and it took me many server restart to get through the full scan. I commented on my experience here : http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?p=652049#post652049 After that initial painful experience, 7.6.1 ended up to be much more enjoyable than 7.5.4. The navigation though the database feels definitely faster than 7.5.4, and when I start playing track the song info and artwork take much less time to appear. Partial scans worked without a glitch. Some features like search and player synchronisation that I never managed to make work in 7.5.4 are now working properly, and I must admit I'm now using synchronisation a lot. I could not be more pleased. Yesterday, I've upgraded to 7.7 (TinyLMS ?). The upgrade was very smooth. After rebooting to 7.7, it decided to rescan my music from scratch (full scan - 8k tracks). The scan went through without a glitch first time, I did not time it but it took probably around 25 minutes. And TinyLMS is now working beautifully. One reason the scan may have succeeded first time with 7.7 may be that in the mean time, I've disabled Samba (export Windows share), and that may have freed up enough memory to make a difference. However, the scan code has definitely changed between 7.6.1 and 7.7, as we now have nice scan progress messages on the screen, similar to they way they were in 7.5.4 and earlier, instead of the weird upper-case strings in 7.6.1. I must admit I did not retry another full scan with 7.7. So, I can't be sure what made the difference, but I suspect 7.7 is better... Anyway, people having problem with the scan may want to check if disabling disk sharing helps. >From my very limited testing, it looks like 7.7 behaves as good 7.6.1, with fixes to the scanner. I would personally recommend TinySB users to upgrade to 7.7, because to me it has the best of 7.6.1 and 7.5.4. Have fun... Jean -- jean2 jean2's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33946 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Touch with USB drive : mastering TinySB
pwengland;610925 Wrote: > I am the owner of 2 older Squeezebox's and am thinking of buying 1 new > SB touch very much for the same reasons as Jean, I.e. Not wanting to > leave PCs or NAS running in the house. > I now have two SB, the Touch with HDD and the Radio. When only the Radio is playing, it's great. If both are playing, you feel things becoming more slugish. And I've never managed to make them sync without drop-out. The hard drive is not very fast, and having to feed multiple SB force it to seek in various places constantly, which reduce performance. Don't expect miracles with multiple SB streaming from the Touch. pwengland;610925 Wrote: > The only thing I was wondering is whether a powered USB enclosure maybe > a better call in the long term. > > I appreciate it means one more adaptor in the wall, and maybe a touch > more power use, but I have been through 2 standard power adaptors on my > old SB's and just wonder whether SB Touch adaptor and circuitry is up to > powering a USB drive in the longer term. > > Any views ? My setup has gone over 10 months without any issues. I personally would think that the most damaging to the power supply would be surge and spikes on the mains, rather than the relatively minor load of the drive. The problem you had with your power adaptors was clearly not related to any HDD. A separate enclosure would enable you to put a higher performance drive (7200 rpm), but I'm not sure if that would make a difference. Jean -- jean2 jean2's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33946 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=82070 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
