Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
Hi, this is a misstake that a lot of guys make. The carrier situation where you buy a phone with a contract and so paying less for your iphone is true. Here in Belgium for example you'll pay 700 euro's for a new Iphone 5s 16gb with or without a contract. If you want to buy your Iphone at an official Apple reseller, sometimes you have to wait for month to get your phone, cause that one carrier get the most phones and then the other stores. kr On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 10:53:29AM -0500, David L Minton, Jr wrote: OkPablo, The only reason you pay full price for the phone is cause you do not want to have a contract with a carrier. If that cause you are the one to be a fault for complaining that the cost is to high. There is nothing in this world that is perfect. Thinks have to start somewhere and things have to be fixed to keep them running up to par. I have the same phone and sixe you have. Like I said , you are the one to choose to pay full price instead of the upgrade price through your carrier. - Original Message - From: Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 10:27 AM Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? If apple charge the same money than other business, I can agree what you say. But apple is not the cheaper or the standard price for their products. Of course, I feel that I have right of say that I am in disagreement when I pay a thousand dollars for a phone, and I have to be fighting with the accessibility, when it was working better in previous versions of IOs. Yes, I feel that I have right to be saying that I don't like it. - Original Message - From: Alex Hall mehg...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Cc: viphone viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 10:13 AM Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? In addition, do you really think iOS is perfect if you are not using VO? There are bugs in it and the new Mac OS release for sighted people as well, some very long-standing. Just because there are bugs in accessibility does not mean that Apple doesn't care about accessibility or does not take it seriously, because if you extend that logic, then bugs anywhere must mean they don't care about any of their software. Voiceover is no different from any other aspect of Apple's products: it is mostly great, it has bugs, they fix the bugs, they update, more bugs come along, and the cycle continues. That's true of all software anywhere. Sent from my iPhone On Nov 10, 2013, at 10:01, Ricardo Walker rwalker...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, With respect, let me go through some of the things below. In regards to hanging up a call. Yes, I have notice that doing a 2 finger double tap doesn’t always hang up a call on the first try. Generally, the second try will do the trick. About phone numbers in a text, turn the rotor to links, flick down to the number, and double tap and hold. A dialog appears asking you if you want to call, text, or save the number to contacts. This is not a bug. If you don’t like the way its now done that’s one thing. But it isn’t broken. Web forms? Yes. This is definitely buggy in IOS 7. There is no excuse for that. But I will continue to say, I think some people on the list have very short memories. Remember all the bugs that were found in IOS 6 when it first launched? I’m sorry, bugs in software is just a fact of life at launch. There have been a couple minor updates. But we are still on a .0 release. Can we at least hold off until 7.1 comes out so we can see what’s what? And about the persons Nokia phone, last time I checked, it was running a dead OS, a non existent app store in which I bet the accessible apps were slim pickings indeed. I say this just to point out, if you want to take 3 or 4 bugs, and compare it to an operating system that no longer being supported, that’s fine. But, anyone can do that. JMO Ricardo Walker rica...@appletothecore.info Twitter:@apple2thecore www.appletothecore.info On Nov 10, 2013, at 9:50 AM, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, it is that I have been saying since IOs 6 came. Looks like every time apple write a new code, with new developers, and the accessibility problems every time are worse. They are not learning of the previous IOs experiences, they are not paying attention to it, or they want to become the accessibility in something that another company will care. With IOs 7, I am getting the same problems than you, and bunches of others. But the response that I found is that every IOs brings bugs. It is a very poor excuse, because with IOs 7, is when I have been taking more problems to access information with my apple devices. Apple wants that every year, every body update the IOs, saying that not more support for older versions of the IOs, but at the same time, we have to be suffering during
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
yes, you are right. Some times buy a phone directly to apple is cheaper than buy it to a cell phone company. I bought my iPhone with my cell phone company, but I paid it the same day, like this I didn't use a contract when I will be paying in 2 years, more than paying it in one step. Now I got my iPhone unlocked, and without higher prices per month. , - Original Message - From: peter peter.durieux1...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2013 11:52 AM Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Hi, this is a misstake that a lot of guys make. The carrier situation where you buy a phone with a contract and so paying less for your iphone is true. Here in Belgium for example you'll pay 700 euro's for a new Iphone 5s 16gb with or without a contract. If you want to buy your Iphone at an official Apple reseller, sometimes you have to wait for month to get your phone, cause that one carrier get the most phones and then the other stores. kr On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 10:53:29AM -0500, David L Minton, Jr wrote: OkPablo, The only reason you pay full price for the phone is cause you do not want to have a contract with a carrier. If that cause you are the one to be a fault for complaining that the cost is to high. There is nothing in this world that is perfect. Thinks have to start somewhere and things have to be fixed to keep them running up to par. I have the same phone and sixe you have. Like I said , you are the one to choose to pay full price instead of the upgrade price through your carrier. - Original Message - From: Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 10:27 AM Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? If apple charge the same money than other business, I can agree what you say. But apple is not the cheaper or the standard price for their products. Of course, I feel that I have right of say that I am in disagreement when I pay a thousand dollars for a phone, and I have to be fighting with the accessibility, when it was working better in previous versions of IOs. Yes, I feel that I have right to be saying that I don't like it. - Original Message - From: Alex Hall mehg...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Cc: viphone viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 10:13 AM Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? In addition, do you really think iOS is perfect if you are not using VO? There are bugs in it and the new Mac OS release for sighted people as well, some very long-standing. Just because there are bugs in accessibility does not mean that Apple doesn't care about accessibility or does not take it seriously, because if you extend that logic, then bugs anywhere must mean they don't care about any of their software. Voiceover is no different from any other aspect of Apple's products: it is mostly great, it has bugs, they fix the bugs, they update, more bugs come along, and the cycle continues. That's true of all software anywhere. Sent from my iPhone On Nov 10, 2013, at 10:01, Ricardo Walker rwalker...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, With respect, let me go through some of the things below. In regards to hanging up a call. Yes, I have notice that doing a 2 finger double tap doesn’t always hang up a call on the first try. Generally, the second try will do the trick. About phone numbers in a text, turn the rotor to links, flick down to the number, and double tap and hold. A dialog appears asking you if you want to call, text, or save the number to contacts. This is not a bug. If you don’t like the way its now done that’s one thing. But it isn’t broken. Web forms? Yes. This is definitely buggy in IOS 7. There is no excuse for that. But I will continue to say, I think some people on the list have very short memories. Remember all the bugs that were found in IOS 6 when it first launched? I’m sorry, bugs in software is just a fact of life at launch. There have been a couple minor updates. But we are still on a .0 release. Can we at least hold off until 7.1 comes out so we can see what’s what? And about the persons Nokia phone, last time I checked, it was running a dead OS, a non existent app store in which I bet the accessible apps were slim pickings indeed. I say this just to point out, if you want to take 3 or 4 bugs, and compare it to an operating system that no longer being supported, that’s fine. But, anyone can do that. JMO Ricardo Walker rica...@appletothecore.info Twitter:@apple2thecore www.appletothecore.info On Nov 10, 2013, at 9:50 AM, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, it is that I have been saying since IOs 6 came. Looks like every time apple write a new code, with new developers, and the accessibility problems every time are worse. They are not learning of the previous IOs experiences, they are not paying attention to it, or they want to become the accessibility in something
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
Hi listers, I've read this thread with a lot of intrest and want to give my personal thoughts. First of all, it is great those days to see that mainstream companies step into Accessibility. Who had thought this 10 years ago. Apple did an fantastic job, since 2009 we have access to touchscreen devices and that is great. they made a high quality screen reader solution and made the standard high for others like Google. But since ios5 and also since Lion on the mac, VoiceOver feels sometimes like a beta. Features that worked before, didn't work anymore on the new release. I know software developemnt isn't easy, and when fixing bugs, you'll create an other one. Those bugs are reported by serveral users more often, but aren't fix in a new release or update. Let me give some examples: You all know the tts bug for email addresses back in ios4. @gmail.com became @gmai.l. This bug was fixed in Ios 5, when Lion came out that same bug was present. In the upgrade to ml, this bug was fixed for some languages, but not all and now with the release to 10.9, this bug is still alive for some languages. Since Ios6 we have the punctuation feature, but when you have your punctution set to some VoiceOver will read ' somewhere. Now on Ios7 the bug is still there. Now in Ios7 we have the ability to have more then one high quality voice for use with vo, there is also a setting where you can specify the speech rate for that particular voice, but that feature doens't work. Why giviing that option? On the mac, in some area's you can't use the trackpad to activiate an control, bug since they redesigned the extra menu in ml, but still alive in 10.9. What I'm trying to say is that we have to be thankfull for the accessibility they gave, but also give them a message that more quality control have to be done. Someone mentioned, becomme an Apple Developer and you can test beta's, I think this is not where devs account @ apple are made for. Secondly, I need my phone or my Ipad or mac to do my job. When you are running a beta, there can be some cases that your phone or mac or whatever is in a state hwere you can't do your job. If an Iphone was 200 euro's well I'll buy one, for testing things. Maybe they should first concentrate on stability and reliability and then adding new features. A bit of the Gw Micro way of thinking. An other thing I would like to see is that VoiceOver become a separate software bundle like google did with Talkback. It is a part of the os, but the release cycle is faster. So bugs can be addressed sonner without waiting a year for a major release. In short my thoughts and oh yeah, the bugs I escribed where a few ;) kr -Peter On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 10:53:29AM -0500, David L Minton, Jr wrote: OkPablo, The only reason you pay full price for the phone is cause you do not want to have a contract with a carrier. If that cause you are the one to be a fault for complaining that the cost is to high. There is nothing in this world that is perfect. Thinks have to start somewhere and things have to be fixed to keep them running up to par. I have the same phone and sixe you have. Like I said , you are the one to choose to pay full price instead of the upgrade price through your carrier. - Original Message - From: Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 10:27 AM Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? If apple charge the same money than other business, I can agree what you say. But apple is not the cheaper or the standard price for their products. Of course, I feel that I have right of say that I am in disagreement when I pay a thousand dollars for a phone, and I have to be fighting with the accessibility, when it was working better in previous versions of IOs. Yes, I feel that I have right to be saying that I don't like it. - Original Message - From: Alex Hall mehg...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Cc: viphone viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 10:13 AM Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? In addition, do you really think iOS is perfect if you are not using VO? There are bugs in it and the new Mac OS release for sighted people as well, some very long-standing. Just because there are bugs in accessibility does not mean that Apple doesn't care about accessibility or does not take it seriously, because if you extend that logic, then bugs anywhere must mean they don't care about any of their software. Voiceover is no different from any other aspect of Apple's products: it is mostly great, it has bugs, they fix the bugs, they update, more bugs come along, and the cycle continues. That's true of all software anywhere. Sent from my iPhone On Nov 10, 2013, at 10:01, Ricardo Walker rwalker...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, With respect, let me go through some of the things below. In regards to hanging up a call
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
hmm, the prices are the same @ apple reseller or @ carrier. On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 12:06:37PM -0500, Pablo Morales wrote: yes, you are right. Some times buy a phone directly to apple is cheaper than buy it to a cell phone company. I bought my iPhone with my cell phone company, but I paid it the same day, like this I didn't use a contract when I will be paying in 2 years, more than paying it in one step. Now I got my iPhone unlocked, and without higher prices per month. , - Original Message - From: peter peter.durieux1...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2013 11:52 AM Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Hi, this is a misstake that a lot of guys make. The carrier situation where you buy a phone with a contract and so paying less for your iphone is true. Here in Belgium for example you'll pay 700 euro's for a new Iphone 5s 16gb with or without a contract. If you want to buy your Iphone at an official Apple reseller, sometimes you have to wait for month to get your phone, cause that one carrier get the most phones and then the other stores. kr On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 10:53:29AM -0500, David L Minton, Jr wrote: OkPablo, The only reason you pay full price for the phone is cause you do not want to have a contract with a carrier. If that cause you are the one to be a fault for complaining that the cost is to high. There is nothing in this world that is perfect. Thinks have to start somewhere and things have to be fixed to keep them running up to par. I have the same phone and sixe you have. Like I said , you are the one to choose to pay full price instead of the upgrade price through your carrier. - Original Message - From: Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 10:27 AM Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? If apple charge the same money than other business, I can agree what you say. But apple is not the cheaper or the standard price for their products. Of course, I feel that I have right of say that I am in disagreement when I pay a thousand dollars for a phone, and I have to be fighting with the accessibility, when it was working better in previous versions of IOs. Yes, I feel that I have right to be saying that I don't like it. - Original Message - From: Alex Hall mehg...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Cc: viphone viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 10:13 AM Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? In addition, do you really think iOS is perfect if you are not using VO? There are bugs in it and the new Mac OS release for sighted people as well, some very long-standing. Just because there are bugs in accessibility does not mean that Apple doesn't care about accessibility or does not take it seriously, because if you extend that logic, then bugs anywhere must mean they don't care about any of their software. Voiceover is no different from any other aspect of Apple's products: it is mostly great, it has bugs, they fix the bugs, they update, more bugs come along, and the cycle continues. That's true of all software anywhere. Sent from my iPhone On Nov 10, 2013, at 10:01, Ricardo Walker rwalker...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, With respect, let me go through some of the things below. In regards to hanging up a call. Yes, I have notice that doing a 2 finger double tap doesn’t always hang up a call on the first try. Generally, the second try will do the trick. About phone numbers in a text, turn the rotor to links, flick down to the number, and double tap and hold. A dialog appears asking you if you want to call, text, or save the number to contacts. This is not a bug. If you don’t like the way its now done that’s one thing. But it isn’t broken. Web forms? Yes. This is definitely buggy in IOS 7. There is no excuse for that. But I will continue to say, I think some people on the list have very short memories. Remember all the bugs that were found in IOS 6 when it first launched? I’m sorry, bugs in software is just a fact of life at launch. There have been a couple minor updates. But we are still on a .0 release. Can we at least hold off until 7.1 comes out so we can see what’s what? And about the persons Nokia phone, last time I checked, it was running a dead OS, a non existent app store in which I bet the accessible apps were slim pickings indeed. I say this just to point out, if you want to take 3 or 4 bugs, and compare it to an operating system that no longer being supported, that’s fine. But, anyone can do that. JMO Ricardo Walker rica...@appletothecore.info Twitter:@apple2thecore www.appletothecore.info On Nov 10, 2013, at 9:50 AM, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, it is that I have been saying since IOs 6 came. Looks like every time apple write a new code
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
Personally, whether I buy an unlocked phone at full price, or I get a phone from a carrier and get a discount price with a two year commitment, I'm still talking about a good chunk of money. I don't think Pablo's argument is watered down at all just because he's buying an unlocked phone. In other words, Pablo's point would be just as valid if he'd bought the phone at a discount through his carrier and had to commit to a two year plan. This doesn't mean that I agree with Pablo and all of his points, I just don't think the fact that he's bought an unlocked phone changes anything. On 11/16/2013 10:52 AM, peter wrote: Hi, this is a misstake that a lot of guys make. The carrier situation where you buy a phone with a contract and so paying less for your iphone is true. Here in Belgium for example you'll pay 700 euro's for a new Iphone 5s 16gb with or without a contract. If you want to buy your Iphone at an official Apple reseller, sometimes you have to wait for month to get your phone, cause that one carrier get the most phones and then the other stores. kr On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 10:53:29AM -0500, David L Minton, Jr wrote: OkPablo, The only reason you pay full price for the phone is cause you do not want to have a contract with a carrier. If that cause you are the one to be a fault for complaining that the cost is to high. There is nothing in this world that is perfect. Thinks have to start somewhere and things have to be fixed to keep them running up to par. I have the same phone and sixe you have. Like I said , you are the one to choose to pay full price instead of the upgrade price through your carrier. - Original Message - From: Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 10:27 AM Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? If apple charge the same money than other business, I can agree what you say. But apple is not the cheaper or the standard price for their products. Of course, I feel that I have right of say that I am in disagreement when I pay a thousand dollars for a phone, and I have to be fighting with the accessibility, when it was working better in previous versions of IOs. Yes, I feel that I have right to be saying that I don't like it. - Original Message - From: Alex Hall mehg...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Cc: viphone viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 10:13 AM Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? In addition, do you really think iOS is perfect if you are not using VO? There are bugs in it and the new Mac OS release for sighted people as well, some very long-standing. Just because there are bugs in accessibility does not mean that Apple doesn't care about accessibility or does not take it seriously, because if you extend that logic, then bugs anywhere must mean they don't care about any of their software. Voiceover is no different from any other aspect of Apple's products: it is mostly great, it has bugs, they fix the bugs, they update, more bugs come along, and the cycle continues. That's true of all software anywhere. Sent from my iPhone On Nov 10, 2013, at 10:01, Ricardo Walker rwalker...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, With respect, let me go through some of the things below. In regards to hanging up a call. Yes, I have notice that doing a 2 finger double tap doesn’t always hang up a call on the first try. Generally, the second try will do the trick. About phone numbers in a text, turn the rotor to links, flick down to the number, and double tap and hold. A dialog appears asking you if you want to call, text, or save the number to contacts. This is not a bug. If you don’t like the way its now done that’s one thing. But it isn’t broken. Web forms? Yes. This is definitely buggy in IOS 7. There is no excuse for that. But I will continue to say, I think some people on the list have very short memories. Remember all the bugs that were found in IOS 6 when it first launched? I’m sorry, bugs in software is just a fact of life at launch. There have been a couple minor updates. But we are still on a .0 release. Can we at least hold off until 7.1 comes out so we can see what’s what? And about the persons Nokia phone, last time I checked, it was running a dead OS, a non existent app store in which I bet the accessible apps were slim pickings indeed. I say this just to point out, if you want to take 3 or 4 bugs, and compare it to an operating system that no longer being supported, that’s fine. But, anyone can do that. JMO Ricardo Walker rica...@appletothecore.info Twitter:@apple2thecore www.appletothecore.info On Nov 10, 2013, at 9:50 AM, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, it is that I have been saying since IOs 6 came. Looks like every time apple write a new code, with new developers, and the accessibility problems every time are worse. They are not learning of the previous IOs experiences, they are not paying
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
I don't see why when you guys report a bug or flaw in their system of the phone while you're doing it to the list why don't you CC a copy to the Apple people Sent from my iPhone On 2013-11-11, at 1:53 PM, Christopher Chaltain chalt...@gmail.com wrote: I don't think this is what you're saying, but I think we need to be careful here. Accessibility isn't something that were given as a charity and something we should feel grateful for when someone provides it. Accessibility is a right that we should be demanding. Of course, we should be positive and cooperative when someone is working towards accessibility, but we shouldn't just accept whatever comes our way. For example, We shouldn't settle for Mobile Accessibility on Windows Phone 8 and stop pressing Microsoft for greater access to Windows Phone 8 just because they were kind enough to toss us this accessible scrap. It's also a fact that there are accessibility related bugs in IOS 7. People should be bringing these up on list and reporting them to Apple. There may be cases when one person's bug is another person's feature and one person's reporting of an issue is whining to someone else. I don't think accusations of whining and complaining should keep people from mentioning perceived bugs and issues they're having with IOS. I too get frustrated with what I see as people's whining, but I'm hesitant to say where that line should be drawn, and I think we should be careful when we chastise someone for being spoiled and whining. Like I said, we want people talking about the issues they're having with their iPhones because as good as the Iphone is, it could still be better and it could definitely get worse if Apple feels it has to redirect resources away from accessibility and towards other critical projects. On 11/11/2013 02:04 AM, BBS wrote: John and Sieghard, I agree with you guys completely. Like it says in my Skype mood message, some blind people are so spoiled. And it’s true, because look at this thread. We should be lucky that Apple is giving us a pretty good screen reader. I’m just tired of reading threads about people bitching and complaining about Apple not living up to their standards. Even on the Mac list we have people demanding that Apple do this and do that to make Voiceover live up to their standards. I’m tired of this. I think if I find another post about this thread, I’m gonna hit the delete button because that is my friend of course. I’ll just end off by saying if you don’t like Apple, sell your Mac and your iPhone and go to Windows and Android. Now that my rant’s over, Regina, I have an iPhone 4S and I’m not experiencing any wifi issues. Shawn Sent From My White Mac Book On Nov 10, 2013, at 9:17 PM, John Diakogeorgiou jdiakoge2...@gmail.com wrote: I think that Sieghard put it well. I am very tired of listening to people complaining about their phones and the problems they are having. If you are so unhappy with Apple or your IPhone sell it and buy an android phone. For the vast majority of the blind people using this technology it works quite well. Yes their are bugs but they exist with all technology products. At least with the IPhone we have the option to upgrade when a new version of their software comes out. We are not at the mercy of the phone carriers or manufacturers as to whether they will let us upgrade. All in all this technology works well. It has provided us the ability to do much more with our phones than we thought possible just a few short years ago. On 11/10/13, David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you for that summary. I just started reading this thread. The only point I can confirm is item 3. VO has a difficult time tracking in Safari when filling out complex forms. To be fair, many of the forms VO struggles with are also extremely difficult on the computer. They have quite a bit to do with newer web technologies. Other places where VO struggles appear to not move the visual page on the display as one flicks through the form using right flicks. When the button or edit box is not on the visual screen, it will not activate with a double or even, triple tap. However, there is a work-around that works for most websites I have tried. Physically find the edit field and hold your finger on it. This locks it on the visual display. Split-tap with another finger and the edit box is locked in with the keyboard. Because of rapid screen refreshes, it may be impossible to then flick to the next edit field. In this case, locate the done button above the o and p letters on the keyboard and double-tap it. This releases the edit field and one can now locate the next edit field. Follow the same procedure. When finished with the form, locate the continue, submit, or otherly worded button and split-tap it. again, as I previously stated, because of the newer web technologies, many of these complex new web
RE: When will Apple take this seriously?
What about ITunes Radio? I love ITunes Radio it's awesome! It lets me find new music to add to my radio station lol. Yeah and it lets me make up a station that I can customize. It's cool, there are some bugs but you can't expect Apple to constantly clear up every bug, if they did that it would probably take forever and IOS seven wouldn't of even been released yet probably. Every firmware of every platform, windows, Mack, I Devices, they all experience bugs. We're not the only one with problems with IOS Seven. My friend for example, she's sighted, and her camera has went nuts after getting IOS Seven put on her phone and, so I'm going to try and fix her phone for her when she comes down, I think it's something she turned off or on but the thing is so blurry now. smile Gives me a chance to see her again anyway grin Anyway I must say, I love IOS seven, and I got an IPhone now yay! I upgraded from an IPod Touch 4th gen, to an IPhone. I love it, it's only got 8 gigs but heck, it's good enough for me. Lol Especially now with the new I Tunes Radio feature. Jerry Mader -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 9:53 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: When will Apple take this seriously? Pablo, I just don't understand some of the complaints. I don't see a difference in the location of the End button when I'm on a phone call, it's still right there at the bottom of the screen. Then there are little things like Voiceover saying Screene Locked a second time, I mean, really, so what. What about all the improvements? All some people do is complain but they forget to recognize the good things. What about the handwriting feature which is awesome for quickly finding apps? What about SIRI which works better now than ever? What about the new 2-finger quadruple tap to copy the last spoken text which I use quite often and find great? What about Facetime Audio, I think it's awesome. What about little fixes like Voiceovover not losing focus when I am in email 53 of my Inbox and back out where it now stays on email 53 instead of going back to email 1? This, by the way, I remember you complained about bitterly when iOS 6 was released and this was introduced. What about the fantastic support for hearing aids, not something that is mentioned that often on this list even though I know some Viphone members have significant hearing loss and for them this is more revolutionary than evolutionary. These are just a few examples, some are general features and some are accessibility related. Pablo, I am not saying it's all peaches and cream, there are bugs, there always were bugs and there always will be bugs. In the meantime I love what I can do with my iPhone, the access to apps and information it gives me. I prefer to send the occasional email to the accessibility team if I am sure I found something that truly doesn't work and which isn't working because I am not paying attention because I know that Apple is committed to improving accessibility even if apparently you feel it's worse than ever. Maybe you should look for an iPhone 3GS running iOS 5 or iOS 6 on eBay so you can have the experience you seem to be missing. Happy tapping, Sieghard -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pablo Morales Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 3:41 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Sieghard, what are you talking about? So for you is not fir that I complain when I feel that somebody is abusing when they decrees the quality of a product? For example, in IOs 5, the typing emails or typing text messages, wasn't a problem, in IOs 6 either, but now in IOs 7 is very difficult. If not every body is getting the same problem, it doesn't mean that is not enough people getting the problem. I have seen this kind of complain in the list, several times. It was happening in the previous versions of IOs? No, it didn't. Now VO says after the screen is locked, Screen lockedand seconds or minutes later, VO repeats the message. It happened before? No, it didn't. When we receive a call, is easy to find the end button? is easy to finish the phone call? No, it is not, is not one people getting this problem, is a lot of people saying the same thing. It happened before? No, it didn't. Field a text box in a web site, is difficult, or some times impossible. If you don't do it, it doesn't means that it is not a bug. It means that you don't field text fields on web sites, it is all. It happened before? No, it didn't. Now when we are reading the list of emails, or what ever list of content, voice over jumps every where, and we have to cross the whole list of content again to find where we were before VO jump out. it happened before? No, it didn't. Now, if we are playing a song, or audio book, or what ever kind of media, and we press the power
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
OkPablo, The only reason you pay full price for the phone is cause you do not want to have a contract with a carrier. If that cause you are the one to be a fault for complaining that the cost is to high. There is nothing in this world that is perfect. Thinks have to start somewhere and things have to be fixed to keep them running up to par. I have the same phone and sixe you have. Like I said , you are the one to choose to pay full price instead of the upgrade price through your carrier. - Original Message - From: Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 10:27 AM Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? If apple charge the same money than other business, I can agree what you say. But apple is not the cheaper or the standard price for their products. Of course, I feel that I have right of say that I am in disagreement when I pay a thousand dollars for a phone, and I have to be fighting with the accessibility, when it was working better in previous versions of IOs. Yes, I feel that I have right to be saying that I don't like it. - Original Message - From: Alex Hall mehg...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Cc: viphone viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 10:13 AM Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? In addition, do you really think iOS is perfect if you are not using VO? There are bugs in it and the new Mac OS release for sighted people as well, some very long-standing. Just because there are bugs in accessibility does not mean that Apple doesn't care about accessibility or does not take it seriously, because if you extend that logic, then bugs anywhere must mean they don't care about any of their software. Voiceover is no different from any other aspect of Apple's products: it is mostly great, it has bugs, they fix the bugs, they update, more bugs come along, and the cycle continues. That's true of all software anywhere. Sent from my iPhone On Nov 10, 2013, at 10:01, Ricardo Walker rwalker...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, With respect, let me go through some of the things below. In regards to hanging up a call. Yes, I have notice that doing a 2 finger double tap doesn’t always hang up a call on the first try. Generally, the second try will do the trick. About phone numbers in a text, turn the rotor to links, flick down to the number, and double tap and hold. A dialog appears asking you if you want to call, text, or save the number to contacts. This is not a bug. If you don’t like the way its now done that’s one thing. But it isn’t broken. Web forms? Yes. This is definitely buggy in IOS 7. There is no excuse for that. But I will continue to say, I think some people on the list have very short memories. Remember all the bugs that were found in IOS 6 when it first launched? I’m sorry, bugs in software is just a fact of life at launch. There have been a couple minor updates. But we are still on a .0 release. Can we at least hold off until 7.1 comes out so we can see what’s what? And about the persons Nokia phone, last time I checked, it was running a dead OS, a non existent app store in which I bet the accessible apps were slim pickings indeed. I say this just to point out, if you want to take 3 or 4 bugs, and compare it to an operating system that no longer being supported, that’s fine. But, anyone can do that. JMO Ricardo Walker rica...@appletothecore.info Twitter:@apple2thecore www.appletothecore.info On Nov 10, 2013, at 9:50 AM, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, it is that I have been saying since IOs 6 came. Looks like every time apple write a new code, with new developers, and the accessibility problems every time are worse. They are not learning of the previous IOs experiences, they are not paying attention to it, or they want to become the accessibility in something that another company will care. With IOs 7, I am getting the same problems than you, and bunches of others. But the response that I found is that every IOs brings bugs. It is a very poor excuse, because with IOs 7, is when I have been taking more problems to access information with my apple devices. Apple wants that every year, every body update the IOs, saying that not more support for older versions of the IOs, but at the same time, we have to be suffering during the year, the bugs that every IOs brings, we come to the end of the year, and start again with another IOs. It is not fir. - Original Message - From: sen...@gmail.com To: ViPhone viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 7:40 AM Subject: When will Apple take this seriously? This is very frustrating. Hordes of emails have circulated with the many shortcomings of IOS7. Many bugss and shortcomings that have appeared in ver 7 that were not in IOS6. It becomes very frustrating when even the basic phone functions are compromised. 1. Ending
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
Why are you assuming people aren't reporting these issues to Apple accessibility? If I'm having a issue on my iPhone, which I think may be a bug, I'll often ask about it here on the list. I want to know if it's user error first or maybe something unique to my iPhone. Obviously, if I'm doing something wrong myself, there's no need to add to the noise that the Apple accessibility team is already dealing with. If I hear that others are having the same problem, I'll include this in my message to Apple accessibility. Any issue I encounter on my iPhone that I determine is not user error I report to Apple, either through the accessibility mailing list or the feature request form on line. On 11/11/2013 03:09 PM, simon wong wrote: I don't see why when you guys report a bug or flaw in their system of the phone while you're doing it to the list why don't you CC a copy to the Apple people Sent from my iPhone On 2013-11-11, at 1:53 PM, Christopher Chaltain chalt...@gmail.com wrote: I don't think this is what you're saying, but I think we need to be careful here. Accessibility isn't something that were given as a charity and something we should feel grateful for when someone provides it. Accessibility is a right that we should be demanding. Of course, we should be positive and cooperative when someone is working towards accessibility, but we shouldn't just accept whatever comes our way. For example, We shouldn't settle for Mobile Accessibility on Windows Phone 8 and stop pressing Microsoft for greater access to Windows Phone 8 just because they were kind enough to toss us this accessible scrap. It's also a fact that there are accessibility related bugs in IOS 7. People should be bringing these up on list and reporting them to Apple. There may be cases when one person's bug is another person's feature and one person's reporting of an issue is whining to someone else. I don't think accusations of whining and complaining should keep people from mentioning perceived bugs and issues they're having with IOS. I too get frustrated with what I see as people's whining, but I'm hesitant to say where that line should be drawn, and I think we should be careful when we chastise someone for being spoiled and whining. Like I said, we want people talking about the issues they're having with their iPhones because as good as the Iphone is, it could still be better and it could definitely get worse if Apple feels it has to redirect resources away from accessibility and towards other critical projects. On 11/11/2013 02:04 AM, BBS wrote: John and Sieghard, I agree with you guys completely. Like it says in my Skype mood message, some blind people are so spoiled. And it’s true, because look at this thread. We should be lucky that Apple is giving us a pretty good screen reader. I’m just tired of reading threads about people bitching and complaining about Apple not living up to their standards. Even on the Mac list we have people demanding that Apple do this and do that to make Voiceover live up to their standards. I’m tired of this. I think if I find another post about this thread, I’m gonna hit the delete button because that is my friend of course. I’ll just end off by saying if you don’t like Apple, sell your Mac and your iPhone and go to Windows and Android. Now that my rant’s over, Regina, I have an iPhone 4S and I’m not experiencing any wifi issues. Shawn Sent From My White Mac Book On Nov 10, 2013, at 9:17 PM, John Diakogeorgiou jdiakoge2...@gmail.com wrote: I think that Sieghard put it well. I am very tired of listening to people complaining about their phones and the problems they are having. If you are so unhappy with Apple or your IPhone sell it and buy an android phone. For the vast majority of the blind people using this technology it works quite well. Yes their are bugs but they exist with all technology products. At least with the IPhone we have the option to upgrade when a new version of their software comes out. We are not at the mercy of the phone carriers or manufacturers as to whether they will let us upgrade. All in all this technology works well. It has provided us the ability to do much more with our phones than we thought possible just a few short years ago. On 11/10/13, David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you for that summary. I just started reading this thread. The only point I can confirm is item 3. VO has a difficult time tracking in Safari when filling out complex forms. To be fair, many of the forms VO struggles with are also extremely difficult on the computer. They have quite a bit to do with newer web technologies. Other places where VO struggles appear to not move the visual page on the display as one flicks through the form using right flicks. When the button or edit box is not on the visual screen, it will not activate with a double or even, triple tap. However, there is a work-around that works for most websites I have tried.
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
Hi, I’m not sure about this. In IOS 7, it is certainly harder to hang up a call with a 2 finger double tap on the first try. It seems to have gotten better in the minor releases but, enough people who have been using IOS for years have experienced the same behavior to not just write it off as 100% user error. And overall, the 2 finger double tap has at times produced some unexpected results. For example, I do a 2 finger double tap to start dictation and my audible book starts playing. Or music. Now there is no way this can be user error. lol. JMO. Ricardo Walker rica...@appletothecore.info Twitter:@apple2thecore www.appletothecore.info On Nov 11, 2013, at 11:41 PM, David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, the initial complaints from the venting message in this thread were quite obviously user error, not errors in the OS. Two-finger double tap, with the fingers slightly spread always answers and ends phone calls. If it does not end the phone call, this is always and exclusively because the gesture was performed incorrectly. It is solely and completely the user's responsibility to become fully proficient at performing the gestures properly. Apple has a specific practice area set up exclusively to help each of us learn, and perfect, our gestures. It is not Apple's fault or responsibility when we do not perform the gesture properly. The fault / blame / responsibility falls squarely and entirely on the shoulders of the person who has not properly learned the gestures. Consider it this way. I cannot get Windows to copy a file. No matter how many times I press control d, the file will not copy. Is it Microsoft's fault that I am pressing control d rather than control c? Properly performing gestures is exactly and precisely the same thing! David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 12 Nov 2013, at 11:06, Joanne Chua shuang.an...@gmail.com wrote: Sure, if there is accessibility bug we, as any of a responsible consumer, regardless either we are blind or not blind, should report. However, when it is clearly the user fault, which, frankly speaking, you have 75% of the chance with the case, and each of these user errors and faults got to report to the provider, i bet, soon or later, Apple can choose to do their own thing, or provide the lease accessibility tthat they can for the future software and hardware. I think, for new user, they need to realize that they deal with the new platform, and they also should have the expectation that things will not be the same compare to your old Nokia phone. The sooner they realize this, the better experience they will get instead of keep having the batel against themselves as to how Talks do this and that, and how Voiceover do this and that. You know, back in the old days, i can remember 90% of my family and friends phone numbers, i used to be call as a walking phone book. But now, since i use iPhone, i can't recall my phone number half of the time. Maybe i should write to Apple for that, and asking them to stop the capability of saving phone numbers and contact details. Joanne Chua The flip side of Inclusion is Exclusion. Leaders For Tomorrow 2013 Candidate Send from my iPad On 12 Nov 2013, at 5:23, Christopher Chaltain chalt...@gmail.com wrote: I don't think this is what you're saying, but I think we need to be careful here. Accessibility isn't something that were given as a charity and something we should feel grateful for when someone provides it. Accessibility is a right that we should be demanding. Of course, we should be positive and cooperative when someone is working towards accessibility, but we shouldn't just accept whatever comes our way. For example, We shouldn't settle for Mobile Accessibility on Windows Phone 8 and stop pressing Microsoft for greater access to Windows Phone 8 just because they were kind enough to toss us this accessible scrap. It's also a fact that there are accessibility related bugs in IOS 7. People should be bringing these up on list and reporting them to Apple. There may be cases when one person's bug is another person's feature and one person's reporting of an issue is whining to someone else. I don't think accusations of whining and complaining should keep people from mentioning perceived bugs and issues they're having with IOS. I too get frustrated with what I see as people's whining, but I'm hesitant to say where that line should be drawn, and I think we should be careful when we chastise someone for being spoiled and whining. Like I said, we want people talking about the issues they're having with their iPhones because as good as the Iphone is, it could still be better and it could definitely get worse if Apple feels it has to redirect resources away from accessibility and towards other critical projects. On 11/11/2013
RE: When will Apple take this seriously?
I have a 4S and no wifi problems. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Regina Alvarado Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 8:41 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? 'I will jump in here. I have found very little in 703 that I truly have a problem with, but if Appple really knew about the wifi issue om 4s and 4, that is by far the worst bug of them all Any other bug there ways to get around them, but to not tell people with 4s not to upgrade was unconcionable. I still would rather have Apple with their accessibility than need to buy my voice and maybe or maybe not have it work. Better watch how much you complain Pablo. Apple could decide we are too small a community to worry about! My problem has noathing to do with accessibility. All in all VO works well, and they keep improving it as we go along. reggie and Allegra On Nov 10, 2013, at 10:27 AM, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: If apple charge the same money than other business, I can agree what you say. But apple is not the cheaper or the standard price for their products. Of course, I feel that I have right of say that I am in disagreement when I pay a thousand dollars for a phone, and I have to be fighting with the accessibility, when it was working better in previous versions of IOs. Yes, I feel that I have right to be saying that I don't like it. - Original Message - From: Alex Hall mehg...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Cc: viphone viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 10:13 AM Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? In addition, do you really think iOS is perfect if you are not using VO? There are bugs in it and the new Mac OS release for sighted people as well, some very long-standing. Just because there are bugs in accessibility does not mean that Apple doesn't care about accessibility or does not take it seriously, because if you extend that logic, then bugs anywhere must mean they don't care about any of their software. Voiceover is no different from any other aspect of Apple's products: it is mostly great, it has bugs, they fix the bugs, they update, more bugs come along, and the cycle continues. That's true of all software anywhere. Sent from my iPhone On Nov 10, 2013, at 10:01, Ricardo Walker rwalker...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, With respect, let me go through some of the things below. In regards to hanging up a call. Yes, I have notice that doing a 2 finger double tap doesn't always hang up a call on the first try. Generally, the second try will do the trick. About phone numbers in a text, turn the rotor to links, flick down to the number, and double tap and hold. A dialog appears asking you if you want to call, text, or save the number to contacts. This is not a bug. If you don't like the way its now done that's one thing. But it isn't broken. Web forms? Yes. This is definitely buggy in IOS 7. There is no excuse for that. But I will continue to say, I think some people on the list have very short memories. Remember all the bugs that were found in IOS 6 when it first launched? I'm sorry, bugs in software is just a fact of life at launch. There have been a couple minor updates. But we are still on a .0 release. Can we at least hold off until 7.1 comes out so we can see what's what? And about the persons Nokia phone, last time I checked, it was running a dead OS, a non existent app store in which I bet the accessible apps were slim pickings indeed. I say this just to point out, if you want to take 3 or 4 bugs, and compare it to an operating system that no longer being supported, that's fine. But, anyone can do that. JMO Ricardo Walker rica...@appletothecore.info Twitter:@apple2thecore www.appletothecore.info On Nov 10, 2013, at 9:50 AM, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, it is that I have been saying since IOs 6 came. Looks like every time apple write a new code, with new developers, and the accessibility problems every time are worse. They are not learning of the previous IOs experiences, they are not paying attention to it, or they want to become the accessibility in something that another company will care. With IOs 7, I am getting the same problems than you, and bunches of others. But the response that I found is that every IOs brings bugs. It is a very poor excuse, because with IOs 7, is when I have been taking more problems to access information with my apple devices. Apple wants that every year, every body update the IOs, saying that not more support for older versions of the IOs, but at the same time, we have to be suffering during the year, the bugs that every IOs brings, we come to the end of the year, and start again with another IOs. It is not fir. - Original Message - From: sen...@gmail.com To: ViPhone viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 7:40 AM Subject: When
RE: When will Apple take this seriously?
Hi Richard, This typically only happens if the virtual keyboard is not on the screen or if the app you are trying to Dictate in doesn't support the 2-finger gesture for this. I experience the same if I am, for example, in the Messages app and want to Dictate a text message and my Bluetooth keyboard is connected, it only works if I show the virtual keyboard and the Dictate button is visible on the screen. This is something I have been meaning to write to Apple about. I still also think that in general there should be a way to make the virtual keyboard visible from the phone. Right now I have to go to my Apple Wireless keyboard and press the top right button so if I am elsewhere in the house it's annoying. I can, of course, bring up control centre and turn Bluetooth off and that will also do it, but it still would be nice if there was a button on the screen which would show the keyboard. Regards, Sieghard -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ricardo Walker Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 4:48 AM To: viphone Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Hi, I'm not sure about this. In IOS 7, it is certainly harder to hang up a call with a 2 finger double tap on the first try. It seems to have gotten better in the minor releases but, enough people who have been using IOS for years have experienced the same behavior to not just write it off as 100% user error. And overall, the 2 finger double tap has at times produced some unexpected results. For example, I do a 2 finger double tap to start dictation and my audible book starts playing. Or music. Now there is no way this can be user error. lol. JMO. Ricardo Walker rica...@appletothecore.info Twitter:@apple2thecore www.appletothecore.info On Nov 11, 2013, at 11:41 PM, David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, the initial complaints from the venting message in this thread were quite obviously user error, not errors in the OS. Two-finger double tap, with the fingers slightly spread always answers and ends phone calls. If it does not end the phone call, this is always and exclusively because the gesture was performed incorrectly. It is solely and completely the user's responsibility to become fully proficient at performing the gestures properly. Apple has a specific practice area set up exclusively to help each of us learn, and perfect, our gestures. It is not Apple's fault or responsibility when we do not perform the gesture properly. The fault / blame / responsibility falls squarely and entirely on the shoulders of the person who has not properly learned the gestures. Consider it this way. I cannot get Windows to copy a file. No matter how many times I press control d, the file will not copy. Is it Microsoft's fault that I am pressing control d rather than control c? Properly performing gestures is exactly and precisely the same thing! David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 12 Nov 2013, at 11:06, Joanne Chua shuang.an...@gmail.com wrote: Sure, if there is accessibility bug we, as any of a responsible consumer, regardless either we are blind or not blind, should report. However, when it is clearly the user fault, which, frankly speaking, you have 75% of the chance with the case, and each of these user errors and faults got to report to the provider, i bet, soon or later, Apple can choose to do their own thing, or provide the lease accessibility tthat they can for the future software and hardware. I think, for new user, they need to realize that they deal with the new platform, and they also should have the expectation that things will not be the same compare to your old Nokia phone. The sooner they realize this, the better experience they will get instead of keep having the batel against themselves as to how Talks do this and that, and how Voiceover do this and that. You know, back in the old days, i can remember 90% of my family and friends phone numbers, i used to be call as a walking phone book. But now, since i use iPhone, i can't recall my phone number half of the time. Maybe i should write to Apple for that, and asking them to stop the capability of saving phone numbers and contact details. Joanne Chua The flip side of Inclusion is Exclusion. Leaders For Tomorrow 2013 Candidate Send from my iPad On 12 Nov 2013, at 5:23, Christopher Chaltain chalt...@gmail.com wrote: I don't think this is what you're saying, but I think we need to be careful here. Accessibility isn't something that were given as a charity and something we should feel grateful for when someone provides it. Accessibility is a right that we should be demanding. Of course, we should be positive and cooperative when someone is working towards accessibility, but we shouldn't just accept whatever comes our way. For example, We shouldn't settle for Mobile Accessibility on Windows Phone 8 and stop
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
Neither my husband or myself had had any challenges in ending a phone call. For us, the hang up gesture works the same as always. The same goes for double tapping to enter into dictation. You will want to make sure that you are in the edit field so that editing is enabled. If not, maybe that is why some people are getting music to play instead of dictation? Not sure but trying to think of reasons why some would be encountering this difficulty. Kellie, Guide Loki and retired July -Original Message- From: Ricardo Walker Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 6:48 AM To: viphone Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Hi, I’m not sure about this. In IOS 7, it is certainly harder to hang up a call with a 2 finger double tap on the first try. It seems to have gotten better in the minor releases but, enough people who have been using IOS for years have experienced the same behavior to not just write it off as 100% user error. And overall, the 2 finger double tap has at times produced some unexpected results. For example, I do a 2 finger double tap to start dictation and my audible book starts playing. Or music. Now there is no way this can be user error. lol. JMO. Ricardo Walker rica...@appletothecore.info Twitter:@apple2thecore www.appletothecore.info On Nov 11, 2013, at 11:41 PM, David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, the initial complaints from the venting message in this thread were quite obviously user error, not errors in the OS. Two-finger double tap, with the fingers slightly spread always answers and ends phone calls. If it does not end the phone call, this is always and exclusively because the gesture was performed incorrectly. It is solely and completely the user's responsibility to become fully proficient at performing the gestures properly. Apple has a specific practice area set up exclusively to help each of us learn, and perfect, our gestures. It is not Apple's fault or responsibility when we do not perform the gesture properly. The fault / blame / responsibility falls squarely and entirely on the shoulders of the person who has not properly learned the gestures. Consider it this way. I cannot get Windows to copy a file. No matter how many times I press control d, the file will not copy. Is it Microsoft's fault that I am pressing control d rather than control c? Properly performing gestures is exactly and precisely the same thing! David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 12 Nov 2013, at 11:06, Joanne Chua shuang.an...@gmail.com wrote: Sure, if there is accessibility bug we, as any of a responsible consumer, regardless either we are blind or not blind, should report. However, when it is clearly the user fault, which, frankly speaking, you have 75% of the chance with the case, and each of these user errors and faults got to report to the provider, i bet, soon or later, Apple can choose to do their own thing, or provide the lease accessibility tthat they can for the future software and hardware. I think, for new user, they need to realize that they deal with the new platform, and they also should have the expectation that things will not be the same compare to your old Nokia phone. The sooner they realize this, the better experience they will get instead of keep having the batel against themselves as to how Talks do this and that, and how Voiceover do this and that. You know, back in the old days, i can remember 90% of my family and friends phone numbers, i used to be call as a walking phone book. But now, since i use iPhone, i can't recall my phone number half of the time. Maybe i should write to Apple for that, and asking them to stop the capability of saving phone numbers and contact details. Joanne Chua The flip side of Inclusion is Exclusion. Leaders For Tomorrow 2013 Candidate Send from my iPad On 12 Nov 2013, at 5:23, Christopher Chaltain chalt...@gmail.com wrote: I don't think this is what you're saying, but I think we need to be careful here. Accessibility isn't something that were given as a charity and something we should feel grateful for when someone provides it. Accessibility is a right that we should be demanding. Of course, we should be positive and cooperative when someone is working towards accessibility, but we shouldn't just accept whatever comes our way. For example, We shouldn't settle for Mobile Accessibility on Windows Phone 8 and stop pressing Microsoft for greater access to Windows Phone 8 just because they were kind enough to toss us this accessible scrap. It's also a fact that there are accessibility related bugs in IOS 7. People should be bringing these up on list and reporting them to Apple. There may be cases when one person's bug is another person's feature and one person's reporting of an issue is whining to someone else. I don't think accusations of whining and complaining should keep people
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
I never know 2 finger double tap will start dictation. i always thought, and do so, that two finger double tap will play music, unless you are on specific apps like facebook, that will give you different actions. Joanne Chua The flip side of Inclusion is Exclusion. Leaders For Tomorrow 2013 Candidate Send from my iPad On 12 Nov 2013, at 23:18, Ricardo Walker rwalker...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I’m not sure about this. In IOS 7, it is certainly harder to hang up a call with a 2 finger double tap on the first try. It seems to have gotten better in the minor releases but, enough people who have been using IOS for years have experienced the same behavior to not just write it off as 100% user error. And overall, the 2 finger double tap has at times produced some unexpected results. For example, I do a 2 finger double tap to start dictation and my audible book starts playing. Or music. Now there is no way this can be user error. lol. JMO. Ricardo Walker rica...@appletothecore.info Twitter:@apple2thecore www.appletothecore.info On Nov 11, 2013, at 11:41 PM, David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, the initial complaints from the venting message in this thread were quite obviously user error, not errors in the OS. Two-finger double tap, with the fingers slightly spread always answers and ends phone calls. If it does not end the phone call, this is always and exclusively because the gesture was performed incorrectly. It is solely and completely the user's responsibility to become fully proficient at performing the gestures properly. Apple has a specific practice area set up exclusively to help each of us learn, and perfect, our gestures. It is not Apple's fault or responsibility when we do not perform the gesture properly. The fault / blame / responsibility falls squarely and entirely on the shoulders of the person who has not properly learned the gestures. Consider it this way. I cannot get Windows to copy a file. No matter how many times I press control d, the file will not copy. Is it Microsoft's fault that I am pressing control d rather than control c? Properly performing gestures is exactly and precisely the same thing! David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 12 Nov 2013, at 11:06, Joanne Chua shuang.an...@gmail.com wrote: Sure, if there is accessibility bug we, as any of a responsible consumer, regardless either we are blind or not blind, should report. However, when it is clearly the user fault, which, frankly speaking, you have 75% of the chance with the case, and each of these user errors and faults got to report to the provider, i bet, soon or later, Apple can choose to do their own thing, or provide the lease accessibility tthat they can for the future software and hardware. I think, for new user, they need to realize that they deal with the new platform, and they also should have the expectation that things will not be the same compare to your old Nokia phone. The sooner they realize this, the better experience they will get instead of keep having the batel against themselves as to how Talks do this and that, and how Voiceover do this and that. You know, back in the old days, i can remember 90% of my family and friends phone numbers, i used to be call as a walking phone book. But now, since i use iPhone, i can't recall my phone number half of the time. Maybe i should write to Apple for that, and asking them to stop the capability of saving phone numbers and contact details. Joanne Chua The flip side of Inclusion is Exclusion. Leaders For Tomorrow 2013 Candidate Send from my iPad On 12 Nov 2013, at 5:23, Christopher Chaltain chalt...@gmail.com wrote: I don't think this is what you're saying, but I think we need to be careful here. Accessibility isn't something that were given as a charity and something we should feel grateful for when someone provides it. Accessibility is a right that we should be demanding. Of course, we should be positive and cooperative when someone is working towards accessibility, but we shouldn't just accept whatever comes our way. For example, We shouldn't settle for Mobile Accessibility on Windows Phone 8 and stop pressing Microsoft for greater access to Windows Phone 8 just because they were kind enough to toss us this accessible scrap. It's also a fact that there are accessibility related bugs in IOS 7. People should be bringing these up on list and reporting them to Apple. There may be cases when one person's bug is another person's feature and one person's reporting of an issue is whining to someone else. I don't think accusations of whining and complaining should keep people from mentioning perceived bugs and issues they're having with IOS. I too get frustrated with what I see as people's whining, but I'm hesitant to say where that line
RE: When will Apple take this seriously?
Hi Kelly, I had the problem with the two-finger tap to start dictation. It was simply that my blue tooth keyboard was on and consequently the virtual keyboard was not showing so there was no dictation button. Evidently, if the dictation button is not showing on the screen, the 2-finger tap starts the music rather than dictation. Once I got that, I never had a problem since. I have to admit that, once, I was wondering what I was doing wrong and realized I had not double-tapped with one finger first to activate the text box. That is the solution to that problem but, there is also the fact that the screen is more sensitive in IOS 7. They did reduce the sensitivity in 7.0.03 but it is still a more sensitive screen than it was in IOS 6. In such case, we have to be more accurate with gestures. It does require some practice. After all, Apple can't feed us everything with a spoon. They are doing their big share but we have to do the rest. Ron Danvers -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kellie and my lab pack Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 2:46 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Neither my husband or myself had had any challenges in ending a phone call. For us, the hang up gesture works the same as always. The same goes for double tapping to enter into dictation. You will want to make sure that you are in the edit field so that editing is enabled. If not, maybe that is why some people are getting music to play instead of dictation? Not sure but trying to think of reasons why some would be encountering this difficulty. Kellie, Guide Loki and retired July -Original Message- From: Ricardo Walker Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 6:48 AM To: viphone Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Hi, I'm not sure about this. In IOS 7, it is certainly harder to hang up a call with a 2 finger double tap on the first try. It seems to have gotten better in the minor releases but, enough people who have been using IOS for years have experienced the same behavior to not just write it off as 100% user error. And overall, the 2 finger double tap has at times produced some unexpected results. For example, I do a 2 finger double tap to start dictation and my audible book starts playing. Or music. Now there is no way this can be user error. lol. JMO. Ricardo Walker rica...@appletothecore.info Twitter:@apple2thecore www.appletothecore.info On Nov 11, 2013, at 11:41 PM, David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, the initial complaints from the venting message in this thread were quite obviously user error, not errors in the OS. Two-finger double tap, with the fingers slightly spread always answers and ends phone calls. If it does not end the phone call, this is always and exclusively because the gesture was performed incorrectly. It is solely and completely the user's responsibility to become fully proficient at performing the gestures properly. Apple has a specific practice area set up exclusively to help each of us learn, and perfect, our gestures. It is not Apple's fault or responsibility when we do not perform the gesture properly. The fault / blame / responsibility falls squarely and entirely on the shoulders of the person who has not properly learned the gestures. Consider it this way. I cannot get Windows to copy a file. No matter how many times I press control d, the file will not copy. Is it Microsoft's fault that I am pressing control d rather than control c? Properly performing gestures is exactly and precisely the same thing! David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 12 Nov 2013, at 11:06, Joanne Chua shuang.an...@gmail.com wrote: Sure, if there is accessibility bug we, as any of a responsible consumer, regardless either we are blind or not blind, should report. However, when it is clearly the user fault, which, frankly speaking, you have 75% of the chance with the case, and each of these user errors and faults got to report to the provider, i bet, soon or later, Apple can choose to do their own thing, or provide the lease accessibility tthat they can for the future software and hardware. I think, for new user, they need to realize that they deal with the new platform, and they also should have the expectation that things will not be the same compare to your old Nokia phone. The sooner they realize this, the better experience they will get instead of keep having the batel against themselves as to how Talks do this and that, and how Voiceover do this and that. You know, back in the old days, i can remember 90% of my family and friends phone numbers, i used to be call as a walking phone book. But now, since i use iPhone, i can't recall my phone number half of the time. Maybe i should write to Apple for that, and asking
RE: When will Apple take this seriously?
This thread has been hijacked. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ron Pelletier Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 5:48 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: When will Apple take this seriously? Hi Kelly, I had the problem with the two-finger tap to start dictation. It was simply that my blue tooth keyboard was on and consequently the virtual keyboard was not showing so there was no dictation button. Evidently, if the dictation button is not showing on the screen, the 2-finger tap starts the music rather than dictation. Once I got that, I never had a problem since. I have to admit that, once, I was wondering what I was doing wrong and realized I had not double-tapped with one finger first to activate the text box. That is the solution to that problem but, there is also the fact that the screen is more sensitive in IOS 7. They did reduce the sensitivity in 7.0.03 but it is still a more sensitive screen than it was in IOS 6. In such case, we have to be more accurate with gestures. It does require some practice. After all, Apple can't feed us everything with a spoon. They are doing their big share but we have to do the rest. Ron Danvers -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kellie and my lab pack Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 2:46 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Neither my husband or myself had had any challenges in ending a phone call. For us, the hang up gesture works the same as always. The same goes for double tapping to enter into dictation. You will want to make sure that you are in the edit field so that editing is enabled. If not, maybe that is why some people are getting music to play instead of dictation? Not sure but trying to think of reasons why some would be encountering this difficulty. Kellie, Guide Loki and retired July -Original Message- From: Ricardo Walker Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 6:48 AM To: viphone Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Hi, I'm not sure about this. In IOS 7, it is certainly harder to hang up a call with a 2 finger double tap on the first try. It seems to have gotten better in the minor releases but, enough people who have been using IOS for years have experienced the same behavior to not just write it off as 100% user error. And overall, the 2 finger double tap has at times produced some unexpected results. For example, I do a 2 finger double tap to start dictation and my audible book starts playing. Or music. Now there is no way this can be user error. lol. JMO. Ricardo Walker rica...@appletothecore.info Twitter:@apple2thecore www.appletothecore.info On Nov 11, 2013, at 11:41 PM, David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, the initial complaints from the venting message in this thread were quite obviously user error, not errors in the OS. Two-finger double tap, with the fingers slightly spread always answers and ends phone calls. If it does not end the phone call, this is always and exclusively because the gesture was performed incorrectly. It is solely and completely the user's responsibility to become fully proficient at performing the gestures properly. Apple has a specific practice area set up exclusively to help each of us learn, and perfect, our gestures. It is not Apple's fault or responsibility when we do not perform the gesture properly. The fault / blame / responsibility falls squarely and entirely on the shoulders of the person who has not properly learned the gestures. Consider it this way. I cannot get Windows to copy a file. No matter how many times I press control d, the file will not copy. Is it Microsoft's fault that I am pressing control d rather than control c? Properly performing gestures is exactly and precisely the same thing! David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 12 Nov 2013, at 11:06, Joanne Chua shuang.an...@gmail.com wrote: Sure, if there is accessibility bug we, as any of a responsible consumer, regardless either we are blind or not blind, should report. However, when it is clearly the user fault, which, frankly speaking, you have 75% of the chance with the case, and each of these user errors and faults got to report to the provider, i bet, soon or later, Apple can choose to do their own thing, or provide the lease accessibility tthat they can for the future software and hardware. I think, for new user, they need to realize that they deal with the new platform, and they also should have the expectation that things will not be the same compare to your old Nokia phone. The sooner they realize this, the better experience they will get instead of keep having the batel against themselves as to how Talks do this and that, and how Voiceover do
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
This feature was introduced in IOS 7. If your currently editing an edit field then a two finger double tap should start dictation. On 11/12/2013 05:46 PM, Joanne Chua wrote: I never know 2 finger double tap will start dictation. i always thought, and do so, that two finger double tap will play music, unless you are on specific apps like facebook, that will give you different actions. Joanne Chua The flip side of Inclusion is Exclusion. Leaders For Tomorrow 2013 Candidate Send from my iPad On 12 Nov 2013, at 23:18, Ricardo Walker rwalker...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I’m not sure about this. In IOS 7, it is certainly harder to hang up a call with a 2 finger double tap on the first try. It seems to have gotten better in the minor releases but, enough people who have been using IOS for years have experienced the same behavior to not just write it off as 100% user error. And overall, the 2 finger double tap has at times produced some unexpected results. For example, I do a 2 finger double tap to start dictation and my audible book starts playing. Or music. Now there is no way this can be user error. lol. JMO. Ricardo Walker rica...@appletothecore.info Twitter:@apple2thecore www.appletothecore.info On Nov 11, 2013, at 11:41 PM, David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, the initial complaints from the venting message in this thread were quite obviously user error, not errors in the OS. Two-finger double tap, with the fingers slightly spread always answers and ends phone calls. If it does not end the phone call, this is always and exclusively because the gesture was performed incorrectly. It is solely and completely the user's responsibility to become fully proficient at performing the gestures properly. Apple has a specific practice area set up exclusively to help each of us learn, and perfect, our gestures. It is not Apple's fault or responsibility when we do not perform the gesture properly. The fault / blame / responsibility falls squarely and entirely on the shoulders of the person who has not properly learned the gestures. Consider it this way. I cannot get Windows to copy a file. No matter how many times I press control d, the file will not copy. Is it Microsoft's fault that I am pressing control d rather than control c? Properly performing gestures is exactly and precisely the same thing! David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 12 Nov 2013, at 11:06, Joanne Chua shuang.an...@gmail.com wrote: Sure, if there is accessibility bug we, as any of a responsible consumer, regardless either we are blind or not blind, should report. However, when it is clearly the user fault, which, frankly speaking, you have 75% of the chance with the case, and each of these user errors and faults got to report to the provider, i bet, soon or later, Apple can choose to do their own thing, or provide the lease accessibility tthat they can for the future software and hardware. I think, for new user, they need to realize that they deal with the new platform, and they also should have the expectation that things will not be the same compare to your old Nokia phone. The sooner they realize this, the better experience they will get instead of keep having the batel against themselves as to how Talks do this and that, and how Voiceover do this and that. You know, back in the old days, i can remember 90% of my family and friends phone numbers, i used to be call as a walking phone book. But now, since i use iPhone, i can't recall my phone number half of the time. Maybe i should write to Apple for that, and asking them to stop the capability of saving phone numbers and contact details. Joanne Chua The flip side of Inclusion is Exclusion. Leaders For Tomorrow 2013 Candidate Send from my iPad On 12 Nov 2013, at 5:23, Christopher Chaltain chalt...@gmail.com wrote: I don't think this is what you're saying, but I think we need to be careful here. Accessibility isn't something that were given as a charity and something we should feel grateful for when someone provides it. Accessibility is a right that we should be demanding. Of course, we should be positive and cooperative when someone is working towards accessibility, but we shouldn't just accept whatever comes our way. For example, We shouldn't settle for Mobile Accessibility on Windows Phone 8 and stop pressing Microsoft for greater access to Windows Phone 8 just because they were kind enough to toss us this accessible scrap. It's also a fact that there are accessibility related bugs in IOS 7. People should be bringing these up on list and reporting them to Apple. There may be cases when one person's bug is another person's feature and one person's reporting of an issue is whining to someone else. I don't think accusations of whining and complaining should keep people from mentioning perceived bugs and issues they're having with IOS. I too get
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
This is a new feature started with iOS 7. If you are in and edit field, and the edit field is active, you can do a two finger double tap to start dictation. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 13 Nov 2013, at 12:46, Joanne Chua shuang.an...@gmail.com wrote: I never know 2 finger double tap will start dictation. i always thought, and do so, that two finger double tap will play music, unless you are on specific apps like facebook, that will give you different actions. Joanne Chua The flip side of Inclusion is Exclusion. Leaders For Tomorrow 2013 Candidate Send from my iPad On 12 Nov 2013, at 23:18, Ricardo Walker rwalker...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I’m not sure about this. In IOS 7, it is certainly harder to hang up a call with a 2 finger double tap on the first try. It seems to have gotten better in the minor releases but, enough people who have been using IOS for years have experienced the same behavior to not just write it off as 100% user error. And overall, the 2 finger double tap has at times produced some unexpected results. For example, I do a 2 finger double tap to start dictation and my audible book starts playing. Or music. Now there is no way this can be user error. lol. JMO. Ricardo Walker rica...@appletothecore.info Twitter:@apple2thecore www.appletothecore.info On Nov 11, 2013, at 11:41 PM, David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, the initial complaints from the venting message in this thread were quite obviously user error, not errors in the OS. Two-finger double tap, with the fingers slightly spread always answers and ends phone calls. If it does not end the phone call, this is always and exclusively because the gesture was performed incorrectly. It is solely and completely the user's responsibility to become fully proficient at performing the gestures properly. Apple has a specific practice area set up exclusively to help each of us learn, and perfect, our gestures. It is not Apple's fault or responsibility when we do not perform the gesture properly. The fault / blame / responsibility falls squarely and entirely on the shoulders of the person who has not properly learned the gestures. Consider it this way. I cannot get Windows to copy a file. No matter how many times I press control d, the file will not copy. Is it Microsoft's fault that I am pressing control d rather than control c? Properly performing gestures is exactly and precisely the same thing! David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 12 Nov 2013, at 11:06, Joanne Chua shuang.an...@gmail.com wrote: Sure, if there is accessibility bug we, as any of a responsible consumer, regardless either we are blind or not blind, should report. However, when it is clearly the user fault, which, frankly speaking, you have 75% of the chance with the case, and each of these user errors and faults got to report to the provider, i bet, soon or later, Apple can choose to do their own thing, or provide the lease accessibility tthat they can for the future software and hardware. I think, for new user, they need to realize that they deal with the new platform, and they also should have the expectation that things will not be the same compare to your old Nokia phone. The sooner they realize this, the better experience they will get instead of keep having the batel against themselves as to how Talks do this and that, and how Voiceover do this and that. You know, back in the old days, i can remember 90% of my family and friends phone numbers, i used to be call as a walking phone book. But now, since i use iPhone, i can't recall my phone number half of the time. Maybe i should write to Apple for that, and asking them to stop the capability of saving phone numbers and contact details. Joanne Chua The flip side of Inclusion is Exclusion. Leaders For Tomorrow 2013 Candidate Send from my iPad On 12 Nov 2013, at 5:23, Christopher Chaltain chalt...@gmail.com wrote: I don't think this is what you're saying, but I think we need to be careful here. Accessibility isn't something that were given as a charity and something we should feel grateful for when someone provides it. Accessibility is a right that we should be demanding. Of course, we should be positive and cooperative when someone is working towards accessibility, but we shouldn't just accept whatever comes our way. For example, We shouldn't settle for Mobile Accessibility on Windows Phone 8 and stop pressing Microsoft for greater access to Windows Phone 8 just because they were kind enough to toss us this accessible scrap. It's also a fact that there are accessibility related bugs in IOS 7. People should be bringing these up on list and reporting them to Apple. There may be cases when one person's
RE: When will Apple take this seriously?
To add to David's description, if you have a Bluetooth keyboard connected the 2-finger double tap to start dictation only works if the virtual keyboard is visible. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chittenden Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 5:21 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? This is a new feature started with iOS 7. If you are in and edit field, and the edit field is active, you can do a two finger double tap to start dictation. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 13 Nov 2013, at 12:46, Joanne Chua shuang.an...@gmail.com wrote: I never know 2 finger double tap will start dictation. i always thought, and do so, that two finger double tap will play music, unless you are on specific apps like facebook, that will give you different actions. Joanne Chua The flip side of Inclusion is Exclusion. Leaders For Tomorrow 2013 Candidate Send from my iPad On 12 Nov 2013, at 23:18, Ricardo Walker rwalker...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I'm not sure about this. In IOS 7, it is certainly harder to hang up a call with a 2 finger double tap on the first try. It seems to have gotten better in the minor releases but, enough people who have been using IOS for years have experienced the same behavior to not just write it off as 100% user error. And overall, the 2 finger double tap has at times produced some unexpected results. For example, I do a 2 finger double tap to start dictation and my audible book starts playing. Or music. Now there is no way this can be user error. lol. JMO. Ricardo Walker rica...@appletothecore.info Twitter:@apple2thecore www.appletothecore.info On Nov 11, 2013, at 11:41 PM, David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, the initial complaints from the venting message in this thread were quite obviously user error, not errors in the OS. Two-finger double tap, with the fingers slightly spread always answers and ends phone calls. If it does not end the phone call, this is always and exclusively because the gesture was performed incorrectly. It is solely and completely the user's responsibility to become fully proficient at performing the gestures properly. Apple has a specific practice area set up exclusively to help each of us learn, and perfect, our gestures. It is not Apple's fault or responsibility when we do not perform the gesture properly. The fault / blame / responsibility falls squarely and entirely on the shoulders of the person who has not properly learned the gestures. Consider it this way. I cannot get Windows to copy a file. No matter how many times I press control d, the file will not copy. Is it Microsoft's fault that I am pressing control d rather than control c? Properly performing gestures is exactly and precisely the same thing! David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 12 Nov 2013, at 11:06, Joanne Chua shuang.an...@gmail.com wrote: Sure, if there is accessibility bug we, as any of a responsible consumer, regardless either we are blind or not blind, should report. However, when it is clearly the user fault, which, frankly speaking, you have 75% of the chance with the case, and each of these user errors and faults got to report to the provider, i bet, soon or later, Apple can choose to do their own thing, or provide the lease accessibility tthat they can for the future software and hardware. I think, for new user, they need to realize that they deal with the new platform, and they also should have the expectation that things will not be the same compare to your old Nokia phone. The sooner they realize this, the better experience they will get instead of keep having the batel against themselves as to how Talks do this and that, and how Voiceover do this and that. You know, back in the old days, i can remember 90% of my family and friends phone numbers, i used to be call as a walking phone book. But now, since i use iPhone, i can't recall my phone number half of the time. Maybe i should write to Apple for that, and asking them to stop the capability of saving phone numbers and contact details. Joanne Chua The flip side of Inclusion is Exclusion. Leaders For Tomorrow 2013 Candidate Send from my iPad On 12 Nov 2013, at 5:23, Christopher Chaltain chalt...@gmail.com wrote: I don't think this is what you're saying, but I think we need to be careful here. Accessibility isn't something that were given as a charity and something we should feel grateful for when someone provides it. Accessibility is a right that we should be demanding. Of course, we should be positive and cooperative when someone is working towards accessibility, but we shouldn't just accept whatever comes our way. For example, We shouldn't settle for Mobile Accessibility on Windows Phone 8
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
John and Sieghard, I agree with you guys completely. Like it says in my Skype mood message, some blind people are so spoiled. And it’s true, because look at this thread. We should be lucky that Apple is giving us a pretty good screen reader. I’m just tired of reading threads about people bitching and complaining about Apple not living up to their standards. Even on the Mac list we have people demanding that Apple do this and do that to make Voiceover live up to their standards. I’m tired of this. I think if I find another post about this thread, I’m gonna hit the delete button because that is my friend of course. I’ll just end off by saying if you don’t like Apple, sell your Mac and your iPhone and go to Windows and Android. Now that my rant’s over, Regina, I have an iPhone 4S and I’m not experiencing any wifi issues. Shawn Sent From My White Mac Book On Nov 10, 2013, at 9:17 PM, John Diakogeorgiou jdiakoge2...@gmail.com wrote: I think that Sieghard put it well. I am very tired of listening to people complaining about their phones and the problems they are having. If you are so unhappy with Apple or your IPhone sell it and buy an android phone. For the vast majority of the blind people using this technology it works quite well. Yes their are bugs but they exist with all technology products. At least with the IPhone we have the option to upgrade when a new version of their software comes out. We are not at the mercy of the phone carriers or manufacturers as to whether they will let us upgrade. All in all this technology works well. It has provided us the ability to do much more with our phones than we thought possible just a few short years ago. On 11/10/13, David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you for that summary. I just started reading this thread. The only point I can confirm is item 3. VO has a difficult time tracking in Safari when filling out complex forms. To be fair, many of the forms VO struggles with are also extremely difficult on the computer. They have quite a bit to do with newer web technologies. Other places where VO struggles appear to not move the visual page on the display as one flicks through the form using right flicks. When the button or edit box is not on the visual screen, it will not activate with a double or even, triple tap. However, there is a work-around that works for most websites I have tried. Physically find the edit field and hold your finger on it. This locks it on the visual display. Split-tap with another finger and the edit box is locked in with the keyboard. Because of rapid screen refreshes, it may be impossible to then flick to the next edit field. In this case, locate the done button above the o and p letters on the keyboard and double-tap it. This releases the edit field and one can now locate the next edit field. Follow the same procedure. When finished with the form, locate the continue, submit, or otherly worded button and split-tap it. again, as I previously stated, because of the newer web technologies, many of these complex new web technologies are also complicated, if not impossible, for computer-based screen readers. In Apple's favour, I have been able to access some forms on my iPhone using the above procedure, which people on certain lists have stated that Jaws cannot access on Windows and IE 10. As for Talks and Nokia, the person can always go to the newest Windows Mobile phone and get the latest Mobile Speak for it. This is a specifically written app with six features in it. Nothing else can be accessed on the phone, so it will be very similar to the old Nokia with Talks. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 11 Nov 2013, at 10:13, Sieghard Weitzel siegh...@live.ca wrote: Hello, Here is my summary of this entire thread: The original poster complained about 3 items and pointed out a fourth: 1. Hanging up phone calls is unreliable 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to contacts 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. Then Pablo jumped in with his well-known rant about how horrible Apple is in general because they make such expensive and terrible devices which don't work, where people are forced to upgrade to iOS 7 and where generally accessibility is terrible and where Pablo's rights are violated in a number of ways. As for Pablo's arguments, I have actually agreed with him in a very general way that Apple should give people the option to say if they wanted a new iOS to download automatically or not. At first I didn't see his point, but he argued this point well and I agree there should be such an option. However, this is in my view the only issue. Apple is not forcing anybody to upgrade to iOS 7. Yes, they are pushing the update and it takes up space on your phone,
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
Hi, after this lengthy but interesting summary, the thread can be declared closed, all that can be said, has been, more than once I reckon, I stopped reading after a while. I keep a Nokia with Talks, it's reliable because it's simple. There's mileage in keeping a gismo that does it's little bit, without a glitch, your fallback position when the leading edge becomes the bleeding edge. RobH. - Original Message - From: Sieghard Weitzel siegh...@live.ca To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 9:13 PM Subject: RE: When will Apple take this seriously? Hello, Here is my summary of this entire thread: The original poster complained about 3 items and pointed out a fourth: 1. Hanging up phone calls is unreliable 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to contacts 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. Then Pablo jumped in with his well-known rant about how horrible Apple is in general because they make such expensive and terrible devices which don't work, where people are forced to upgrade to iOS 7 and where generally accessibility is terrible and where Pablo's rights are violated in a number of ways. As for Pablo's arguments, I have actually agreed with him in a very general way that Apple should give people the option to say if they wanted a new iOS to download automatically or not. At first I didn't see his point, but he argued this point well and I agree there should be such an option. However, this is in my view the only issue. Apple is not forcing anybody to upgrade to iOS 7. Yes, they are pushing the update and it takes up space on your phone, but you do not have to install it and I'll challenge anybody who says that iOS 7 magically installed on their phone without them doing anything or twice agreeing to the terms and conditions which simply does not happen. If Apple were to allow down the road that one could turn off the automatic downloading then nobody including Pablo could complain in any way because at that point if they upgrade it is entirely their choice. It's already their choice, but let's say somebody has an 8 Gb phone and they really need to free up that space so they install it, that is just a little big of pressure there even though you still decide to put up with iOS 7 in return for getting back 2 Gb of space on your phone. Now, as to the 4 items above: 1. Hanging up calls is unreliable I actually find the 2-finger double tap works better in iOS 7 but that is just my opinion. I think it's pretty safe to say though that it works at least as well and I have up to this point and it's now 2 months since iOS 7 was released, not seen a single post where somebody asked about or mentioned a problem with the 2-finger double tap to hang up. There is of course the other way to hang up a call which works 100% and that is to touch the End Cal lbutton which is really not hard to find as it's right there about the ome Key and to double tap it. As somebody else pointed out, it's not hard to check whether a call was hung up or is still connected. 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to contacts This works flawlessly for me and judging by what others wrote also for them. A simple double tap on a phone number asks me whether I want to call it, a double tap and hold brings up the options to call, add to contacts etc. I'd really like to see how this isn't working on Avnish's phone who I think was the one who posted that all of this didn't work. 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. This one I understand is an issue, I can't comment too much on it since I don't use Safari much to fill out web forms. I have done a few Google searches andwas able to type in a search term just find, the same on the Audible site. Anyhow, if it is buggy then I sure hope those who find this so horrible have written to Apple about it. To me this is like voting. If I talk to somebody about politics and they start a big rant about the government I usually ask first if they voted in the last election. More than once somebody said that they don't vote in which case I usually tell them that they might as well shut up then because if they don't participate in electing the government then they have no right to complain. I am not saying Avnish hasn't written to Apple to explain places where encounters problems, but I see a lot of this on the list and I wonder if everybody also takes the time to compose a constructive email to accessibil...@apple.com to make sure they know about the issues. 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. Well, what can I say, Ricardo already said it. Talks has been gone for some time and no Nokia phone with Talks even at its best can do what the iPhone can do or even get close to the level of accessibility iOs offers. It's of course easier to offer accessibility for a device which has only half the features of iOS. I remember
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
True, but what a waste of bandwidth when touching the top of the screen where the clock is can tell the time. No worse than all those old talking clocks I had where you had to actually press a button. - Original Message - From: Sieghard Weitzel siegh...@live.ca To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 2:57 AM Subject: RE: When will Apple take this seriously? And one can always just press the home key a moment longer and ask SIRI What is the time -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chittenden Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 5:59 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Pablo, VO announcing the track position rather than the time is a new feature, not a bug. When an audio track is playing, the lock screen now displays the audio player screen rather than the normal unlock screen. If you would rather the normal unlock screen was displayed, send an email to Apple about it. However, this is not a bug! In fact, I am willing to bet that many people sent Apple complaints because the audio player did not automatically come up when they first opened the lock screen. If that is the case, I seriously doubt your message will cause Apple to change back to the previous system. After all, how often do the majority of users activate the lock screen to manipulate their audio playback compared with how many do so to check the time. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 11 Nov 2013, at 12:41, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: Sieghard, what are you talking about? So for you is not fir that I complain when I feel that somebody is abusing when they decrees the quality of a product? For example, in IOs 5, the typing emails or typing text messages, wasn't a problem, in IOs 6 either, but now in IOs 7 is very difficult. If not every body is getting the same problem, it doesn't mean that is not enough people getting the problem. I have seen this kind of complain in the list, several times. It was happening in the previous versions of IOs? No, it didn't. Now VO says after the screen is locked, Screen lockedand seconds or minutes later, VO repeats the message. It happened before? No, it didn't. When we receive a call, is easy to find the end button? is easy to finish the phone call? No, it is not, is not one people getting this problem, is a lot of people saying the same thing. It happened before? No, it didn't. Field a text box in a web site, is difficult, or some times impossible. If you don't do it, it doesn't means that it is not a bug. It means that you don't field text fields on web sites, it is all. It happened before? No, it didn't. Now when we are reading the list of emails, or what ever list of content, voice over jumps every where, and we have to cross the whole list of content again to find where we were before VO jump out. it happened before? No, it didn't. Now, if we are playing a song, or audio book, or what ever kind of media, and we press the power button, VO says the track position. Before VO said the time. Now VO says the track position. It happened before? No, it didn't. I have taken the situation when VO stop talking, my phone is in silence for seconds, or minutes. Some times I have to turn off my phone, guessing pressing the power button for 10 seconds, and making a double tab on the screen, or just holding the power button for more than 10 seconds. What is happening? No body knows, but I am looking emails of people who is getting pretty similar problems. it happened before? No, it didn't! How many, no, It didn't, you want Sieghard? . I understand that VO included new things in IOs 7, but why they have to break things that were working well before? In my opinion, apple didn't care every detail in this last IOs. Now, I am talking about the problems with VO, and are so much more problems that are not in this email. But add to this list the problems that people who is not voice over user is getting? I am not saying that apple is not a good product. It is the better product right now. But they are not taking care of details, as they have done before. While Sangsum is improving and doing better phones every day, apple is not doing a good effort in this issue. So I am not talking about hardware, I am talking about IOs developers. In the last 2 versions of IOs, they included new things, but they broke things that were working well before. One more thing, today we are in November 10, 2013. In one more year, you will see that we will be talking about new bugs, in the new IOs, and the bugs and problems that we are getting now, will not be fixed all of them when the new Ios comes, even though we will have to start, to restart again, with new bugs, and never we will be happy, because every year, they have a new IOs, and we have to restart the hard process
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
Agreed, pity this couldn't be turned off and something else turned on. Makes you wonder what the development engineers are thinking of when they change these things, apparently for the sake of it. - Original Message - From: Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 3:14 AM Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Well, apple accessibility has a different opinion than you. They recognize that it should read the time. The people normally look the time more often than when they want to know the track position. Sorry again man. But apple responded to me, that they are going to fix it, and they are apologized about it. - Original Message - From: David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 8:58 PM Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Pablo, VO announcing the track position rather than the time is a new feature, not a bug. When an audio track is playing, the lock screen now displays the audio player screen rather than the normal unlock screen. If you would rather the normal unlock screen was displayed, send an email to Apple about it. However, this is not a bug! In fact, I am willing to bet that many people sent Apple complaints because the audio player did not automatically come up when they first opened the lock screen. If that is the case, I seriously doubt your message will cause Apple to change back to the previous system. After all, how often do the majority of users activate the lock screen to manipulate their audio playback compared with how many do so to check the time. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 11 Nov 2013, at 12:41, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: Sieghard, what are you talking about? So for you is not fir that I complain when I feel that somebody is abusing when they decrees the quality of a product? For example, in IOs 5, the typing emails or typing text messages, wasn't a problem, in IOs 6 either, but now in IOs 7 is very difficult. If not every body is getting the same problem, it doesn't mean that is not enough people getting the problem. I have seen this kind of complain in the list, several times. It was happening in the previous versions of IOs? No, it didn't. Now VO says after the screen is locked, Screen lockedand seconds or minutes later, VO repeats the message. It happened before? No, it didn't. When we receive a call, is easy to find the end button? is easy to finish the phone call? No, it is not, is not one people getting this problem, is a lot of people saying the same thing. It happened before? No, it didn't. Field a text box in a web site, is difficult, or some times impossible. If you don't do it, it doesn't means that it is not a bug. It means that you don't field text fields on web sites, it is all. It happened before? No, it didn't. Now when we are reading the list of emails, or what ever list of content, voice over jumps every where, and we have to cross the whole list of content again to find where we were before VO jump out. it happened before? No, it didn't. Now, if we are playing a song, or audio book, or what ever kind of media, and we press the power button, VO says the track position. Before VO said the time. Now VO says the track position. It happened before? No, it didn't. I have taken the situation when VO stop talking, my phone is in silence for seconds, or minutes. Some times I have to turn off my phone, guessing pressing the power button for 10 seconds, and making a double tab on the screen, or just holding the power button for more than 10 seconds. What is happening? No body knows, but I am looking emails of people who is getting pretty similar problems. it happened before? No, it didn't! How many, no, It didn't, you want Sieghard? . I understand that VO included new things in IOs 7, but why they have to break things that were working well before? In my opinion, apple didn't care every detail in this last IOs. Now, I am talking about the problems with VO, and are so much more problems that are not in this email. But add to this list the problems that people who is not voice over user is getting? I am not saying that apple is not a good product. It is the better product right now. But they are not taking care of details, as they have done before. While Sangsum is improving and doing better phones every day, apple is not doing a good effort in this issue. So I am not talking about hardware, I am talking about IOs developers. In the last 2 versions of IOs, they included new things, but they broke things that were working well before. One more thing, today we are in November 10, 2013. In one more year, you will see that we will be talking about new bugs, in the new IOs, and the bugs and problems that we are getting now, will not be fixed all of them when
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
I observe that we are still on 7.0.3, the bit of interest being the 0. I think 4 got up to 4.5.something, can't remember what 6 got up to; 6.1.3, I still have it; so no Major updates yet, 7.1 should clear all the current issues, so long as they don't introduce new ones. RobH, waiting for the new version dust to settle. - Original Message - From: Wayne gmail ewaynebrum...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 12:22 AM Subject: RE: When will Apple take this seriously? Or one can wait a while and IOS 7 will get better. IOS 6 started with bugs and ended up butterflies because each update included fixes and improvements. I'll bet that was true of the $4,000 Android phone as well. After all it depends on the Android operating system which is relatively new to accessibility and shows it. I can easily recall picking up the phone, dialing the operator, and telling her the long distance number I wanted to reach and waiting while she connected me. We tended to hold our analog watches where we could see them because the long distance charges per minute could quickly mount into serious money. For me, I think IOS 7 is really greatsmile! Regards, Wayne -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chittenden Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 5:49 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Ok, go to American Printing House for the Blind, www.aph.org and check out their braille android phone. I believe the cost is around $4000. It is a phone specifically developed for the blind. It's specific functions work well for the blind. You have your wish answered. Enjoy your $4000 Android phone. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 11 Nov 2013, at 1:40, sen...@gmail.com wrote: This is very frustrating. Hordes of emails have circulated with the many shortcomings of IOS7. Many bugss and shortcomings that have appeared in ver 7 that were not in IOS6. It becomes very frustrating when even the basic phone functions are compromised. 1. Ending calls is a pain. Countless times I thought I had ended the call but it was active. This has lead to embarrassing situations and also a drain on my wallet due to large long distance call charges. 2. When I get phone numbers in a text message, I should be able to call or message or store the number with a tap. No! I could do it with my 6 year old Nokia better. 3. Entering data in a web form has become a nightmare. With my previous phones running Talks I could do much better. I pay 10 times to get a iphone and guess what? I can do less with it! Very frustrating. This list could go on and on. . . . New models will launch, new IOS versions will roll out. . . But the shortcomings and bugs will stick with us. Technology for the sake of technology. But no technology for the visually challenged. Wish someone would charge more but make a phone that works. With IOS7 AND IPHONE all one can do is pull ones hair out, welcome to a bald world populated with buggy iphones! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
well said Sieghard, can't agree more with your post. Rob, iOS 6 got up to 6.14 although i think 6.14 only for iPhone 5 users. Hmm, all these 53++ messages let me think of a business opportunity. I reckon i can hunt down some of the Nokia button phones and i also have a friend that was a Talks diller in Asia and Pacific. Deal to the not-so-recent development, he has about 1000 license sitting somewhere with him and he lost a big chunk of his business on this investment. Oh, he also have some of the KNFB reader license as well... What about this, fully license Talks and a old Nokia phone for $500US, or, Talks + KNFB reader + WayFinder (remember those folks?) + Nokia N86 for $1500US? And consider thise, since you are such a good convert from Apple to good old Nokia, i offer you 10% discount, to $450 for a good old nokia phone with talks, or $1350 for the lots? That those, still cheaper than your Braille + 18... and you know, you get all those goodies that you get for old time sake. :P Joanne Chua The flip side of Inclusion is Exclusion. Leaders For Tomorrow 2013 Candidate Send from my iPad On 11 Nov 2013, at 21:22, RobH. bobs...@googlemail.com wrote: I observe that we are still on 7.0.3, the bit of interest being the 0. I think 4 got up to 4.5.something, can't remember what 6 got up to; 6.1.3, I still have it; so no Major updates yet, 7.1 should clear all the current issues, so long as they don't introduce new ones. RobH, waiting for the new version dust to settle. - Original Message - From: Wayne gmail ewaynebrum...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 12:22 AM Subject: RE: When will Apple take this seriously? Or one can wait a while and IOS 7 will get better. IOS 6 started with bugs and ended up butterflies because each update included fixes and improvements. I'll bet that was true of the $4,000 Android phone as well. After all it depends on the Android operating system which is relatively new to accessibility and shows it. I can easily recall picking up the phone, dialing the operator, and telling her the long distance number I wanted to reach and waiting while she connected me. We tended to hold our analog watches where we could see them because the long distance charges per minute could quickly mount into serious money. For me, I think IOS 7 is really greatsmile! Regards, Wayne -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chittenden Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 5:49 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Ok, go to American Printing House for the Blind, www.aph.org and check out their braille android phone. I believe the cost is around $4000. It is a phone specifically developed for the blind. It's specific functions work well for the blind. You have your wish answered. Enjoy your $4000 Android phone. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 11 Nov 2013, at 1:40, sen...@gmail.com wrote: This is very frustrating. Hordes of emails have circulated with the many shortcomings of IOS7. Many bugss and shortcomings that have appeared in ver 7 that were not in IOS6. It becomes very frustrating when even the basic phone functions are compromised. 1. Ending calls is a pain. Countless times I thought I had ended the call but it was active. This has lead to embarrassing situations and also a drain on my wallet due to large long distance call charges. 2. When I get phone numbers in a text message, I should be able to call or message or store the number with a tap. No! I could do it with my 6 year old Nokia better. 3. Entering data in a web form has become a nightmare. With my previous phones running Talks I could do much better. I pay 10 times to get a iphone and guess what? I can do less with it! Very frustrating. This list could go on and on. . . . New models will launch, new IOS versions will roll out. . . But the shortcomings and bugs will stick with us. Technology for the sake of technology. But no technology for the visually challenged. Wish someone would charge more but make a phone that works. With IOS7 AND IPHONE all one can do is pull ones hair out, welcome to a bald world populated with buggy iphones! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
That's a fair bit of hyperbole: iOS4 only ever got up to 4.35 and no iOS since has gone beyond a variant of x.1. The way Apple does these things appears to have changed, much like Android in the last two years in the far less incremental introduction of features, as much for the psychological impact as attendant promotion of stability it seems. As flippant as it usually sounds, it's a feature not a bug, often seems to be the correct interpretation of many of people's complaints. Human engineering is tricky, since it often involves shaping or accounting for people's behavior without them being aware of it. I for one have gotten quite used to iOS 7. And things people complain about like the change in the now playing info have actually come in handy. The approach of trying to figure out why things have changed I think is far preferable to the assumption that something has gone wrong. Of course, Apple explaining all of these things would be even better; but as the incomplete accessibility implementation on things like iBooks in OSX 10.9 tends to suggest, components of OS development are likely working down to the wire and so that is just another thing that members of the accessibility team think would be nice to have, like being able to see more of their families or get a full night's sleep. Sorry for the rant, but I hate to think how often something someone thought about and worked hard on prompts people to write in and loudly and indignantly proclaim it's broken and demand a fix, rather than simply, and maybe even politely, report their difficulty and express their preference for how things used to be. Respectfully, Aser Tolentino, Esq. On Nov 11, 2013, at 2:52, RobH. bobs...@googlemail.com wrote: I observe that we are still on 7.0.3, the bit of interest being the 0. I think 4 got up to 4.5.something, can't remember what 6 got up to; 6.1.3, I still have it; so no Major updates yet, 7.1 should clear all the current issues, so long as they don't introduce new ones. RobH, waiting for the new version dust to settle. - Original Message - From: Wayne gmail ewaynebrum...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 12:22 AM Subject: RE: When will Apple take this seriously? Or one can wait a while and IOS 7 will get better. IOS 6 started with bugs and ended up butterflies because each update included fixes and improvements. I'll bet that was true of the $4,000 Android phone as well. After all it depends on the Android operating system which is relatively new to accessibility and shows it. I can easily recall picking up the phone, dialing the operator, and telling her the long distance number I wanted to reach and waiting while she connected me. We tended to hold our analog watches where we could see them because the long distance charges per minute could quickly mount into serious money. For me, I think IOS 7 is really greatsmile! Regards, Wayne -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chittenden Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 5:49 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Ok, go to American Printing House for the Blind, www.aph.org and check out their braille android phone. I believe the cost is around $4000. It is a phone specifically developed for the blind. It's specific functions work well for the blind. You have your wish answered. Enjoy your $4000 Android phone. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 11 Nov 2013, at 1:40, sen...@gmail.com wrote: This is very frustrating. Hordes of emails have circulated with the many shortcomings of IOS7. Many bugss and shortcomings that have appeared in ver 7 that were not in IOS6. It becomes very frustrating when even the basic phone functions are compromised. 1. Ending calls is a pain. Countless times I thought I had ended the call but it was active. This has lead to embarrassing situations and also a drain on my wallet due to large long distance call charges. 2. When I get phone numbers in a text message, I should be able to call or message or store the number with a tap. No! I could do it with my 6 year old Nokia better. 3. Entering data in a web form has become a nightmare. With my previous phones running Talks I could do much better. I pay 10 times to get a iphone and guess what? I can do less with it! Very frustrating. This list could go on and on. . . . New models will launch, new IOS versions will roll out. . . But the shortcomings and bugs will stick with us. Technology for the sake of technology. But no technology for the visually challenged. Wish someone would charge more but make a phone that works. With IOS7 AND IPHONE all one can do is pull ones hair out, welcome to a bald world populated with buggy iphones! -- You received
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
Hi, Change for the sake of it? With respect, it sounds like common sense to me. Voiceover always read the first item on the screen below the status bar. When on the lock screen, this is usually the time. This is why we hear the time read when we wake our devices. Now, in IOS 7, when listening to audio, the transport controls are automatically shown as the first items on the screen. So naturally, Voiceover reads that first when waking your device. Voiceover is doing what it has always done since IOS 3.0. The difference is what is displayed on the screen. I don’t see what engineers have to do with it. Since the time is shown in the status bar, why would any sighted person be so redundant as to show the time again underneath when your listening to audio. Like David said, I’m sure people wrote Apple saying when I’m listening to audio, can you have the transport and now playing information automatically displayed instead of me needing to press the home button twice to bring it up? Apple then looked at this request and said yes. This does indeed make sense. Since since it is an improvement for 99.9% of our user base, and only a 00.1% mild inconvenience for Voiceover users, who just need to touch the status bar when listening to audio, this looks like a decent enough trade off. I honestly don’t think it’s that big of a deal. I mean, how many toggles and settings can you cram into an OS or app? After a while, you just have to put your foot down and say enough is enough. This setting adds an extra layer of convenience to the majority of users, and doesn’t break accessibility. It’s not like the clock completely disappears from the screen after all. JMO. Ricardo Walker rica...@appletothecore.info Twitter:@apple2thecore www.appletothecore.info On Nov 11, 2013, at 4:28 AM, RobH. bobs...@googlemail.com wrote: Agreed, pity this couldn't be turned off and something else turned on. Makes you wonder what the development engineers are thinking of when they change these things, apparently for the sake of it. - Original Message - From: Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 3:14 AM Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Well, apple accessibility has a different opinion than you. They recognize that it should read the time. The people normally look the time more often than when they want to know the track position. Sorry again man. But apple responded to me, that they are going to fix it, and they are apologized about it. - Original Message - From: David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 8:58 PM Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Pablo, VO announcing the track position rather than the time is a new feature, not a bug. When an audio track is playing, the lock screen now displays the audio player screen rather than the normal unlock screen. If you would rather the normal unlock screen was displayed, send an email to Apple about it. However, this is not a bug! In fact, I am willing to bet that many people sent Apple complaints because the audio player did not automatically come up when they first opened the lock screen. If that is the case, I seriously doubt your message will cause Apple to change back to the previous system. After all, how often do the majority of users activate the lock screen to manipulate their audio playback compared with how many do so to check the time. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 11 Nov 2013, at 12:41, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: Sieghard, what are you talking about? So for you is not fir that I complain when I feel that somebody is abusing when they decrees the quality of a product? For example, in IOs 5, the typing emails or typing text messages, wasn't a problem, in IOs 6 either, but now in IOs 7 is very difficult. If not every body is getting the same problem, it doesn't mean that is not enough people getting the problem. I have seen this kind of complain in the list, several times. It was happening in the previous versions of IOs? No, it didn't. Now VO says after the screen is locked, Screen lockedand seconds or minutes later, VO repeats the message. It happened before? No, it didn't. When we receive a call, is easy to find the end button? is easy to finish the phone call? No, it is not, is not one people getting this problem, is a lot of people saying the same thing. It happened before? No, it didn't. Field a text box in a web site, is difficult, or some times impossible. If you don't do it, it doesn't means that it is not a bug. It means that you don't field text fields on web sites, it is all. It happened before? No, it didn't. Now when we are reading the list of emails, or what ever list of content, voice over jumps
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
If I have the music player on while my phone is locked I rather have access to the player functions than hear the time anyway. For this reason I don't consider it broken. Hopefully Apple comes up with 7.1 soon so that we can stop listening to people complaining all the time. Although I'm sure they'll find something else to start complaining about. On 11/11/13, Ricardo Walker rwalker...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Change for the sake of it? With respect, it sounds like common sense to me. Voiceover always read the first item on the screen below the status bar. When on the lock screen, this is usually the time. This is why we hear the time read when we wake our devices. Now, in IOS 7, when listening to audio, the transport controls are automatically shown as the first items on the screen. So naturally, Voiceover reads that first when waking your device. Voiceover is doing what it has always done since IOS 3.0. The difference is what is displayed on the screen. I don’t see what engineers have to do with it. Since the time is shown in the status bar, why would any sighted person be so redundant as to show the time again underneath when your listening to audio. Like David said, I’m sure people wrote Apple saying when I’m listening to audio, can you have the transport and now playing information automatically displayed instead of me needing to press the home button twice to bring it up? Apple then looked at this request and said yes. This does indeed make sense. Since since it is an improvement for 99.9% of our user base, and only a 00.1% mild inconvenience for Voiceover users, who just need to touch the status bar when listening to audio, this looks like a decent enough trade off. I honestly don’t think it’s that big of a deal. I mean, how many toggles and settings can you cram into an OS or app? After a while, you just have to put your foot down and say enough is enough. This setting adds an extra layer of convenience to the majority of users, and doesn’t break accessibility. It’s not like the clock completely disappears from the screen after all. JMO. Ricardo Walker rica...@appletothecore.info Twitter:@apple2thecore www.appletothecore.info On Nov 11, 2013, at 4:28 AM, RobH. bobs...@googlemail.com wrote: Agreed, pity this couldn't be turned off and something else turned on. Makes you wonder what the development engineers are thinking of when they change these things, apparently for the sake of it. - Original Message - From: Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 3:14 AM Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Well, apple accessibility has a different opinion than you. They recognize that it should read the time. The people normally look the time more often than when they want to know the track position. Sorry again man. But apple responded to me, that they are going to fix it, and they are apologized about it. - Original Message - From: David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 8:58 PM Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Pablo, VO announcing the track position rather than the time is a new feature, not a bug. When an audio track is playing, the lock screen now displays the audio player screen rather than the normal unlock screen. If you would rather the normal unlock screen was displayed, send an email to Apple about it. However, this is not a bug! In fact, I am willing to bet that many people sent Apple complaints because the audio player did not automatically come up when they first opened the lock screen. If that is the case, I seriously doubt your message will cause Apple to change back to the previous system. After all, how often do the majority of users activate the lock screen to manipulate their audio playback compared with how many do so to check the time. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 11 Nov 2013, at 12:41, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: Sieghard, what are you talking about? So for you is not fir that I complain when I feel that somebody is abusing when they decrees the quality of a product? For example, in IOs 5, the typing emails or typing text messages, wasn't a problem, in IOs 6 either, but now in IOs 7 is very difficult. If not every body is getting the same problem, it doesn't mean that is not enough people getting the problem. I have seen this kind of complain in the list, several times. It was happening in the previous versions of IOs? No, it didn't. Now VO says after the screen is locked, Screen lockedand seconds or minutes later, VO repeats the message. It happened before? No, it didn't. When we receive a call, is easy to find the end button? is easy to finish the phone call? No, it is not, is not one people getting
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
working well. I am the owner of those devices. The difference is that I want that apple makes a better effort developing operated system. Our pressure to apple will be good for us, and for apple also. When you make pressure on somebody, you make that person stronger. When you make pressure on apple to fix these silly things that before didn't work bad, but now are not working well, it will make apple stronger. not Sangsum, not Sony, not Panasonic. Apple needs to do a best effort with this issue. It is for apple, more than for us. - Original Message - From: Sieghard Weitzel siegh...@live.ca To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 4:13 PM Subject: RE: When will Apple take this seriously? Hello, Here is my summary of this entire thread: The original poster complained about 3 items and pointed out a fourth: 1. Hanging up phone calls is unreliable 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to contacts 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. Then Pablo jumped in with his well-known rant about how horrible Apple is in general because they make such expensive and terrible devices which don't work, where people are forced to upgrade to iOS 7 and where generally accessibility is terrible and where Pablo's rights are violated in a number of ways. As for Pablo's arguments, I have actually agreed with him in a very general way that Apple should give people the option to say if they wanted a new iOS to download automatically or not. At first I didn't see his point, but he argued this point well and I agree there should be such an option. However, this is in my view the only issue. Apple is not forcing anybody to upgrade to iOS 7. Yes, they are pushing the update and it takes up space on your phone, but you do not have to install it and I'll challenge anybody who says that iOS 7 magically installed on their phone without them doing anything or twice agreeing to the terms and conditions which simply does not happen. If Apple were to allow down the road that one could turn off the automatic downloading then nobody including Pablo could complain in any way because at that point if they upgrade it is entirely their choice. It's already their choice, but let's say somebody has an 8 Gb phone and they really need to free up that space so they install it, that is just a little big of pressure there even though you still decide to put up with iOS 7 in return for getting back 2 Gb of space on your phone. Now, as to the 4 items above: 1. Hanging up calls is unreliable I actually find the 2-finger double tap works better in iOS 7 but that is just my opinion. I think it's pretty safe to say though that it works at least as well and I have up to this point and it's now 2 months since iOS 7 was released, not seen a single post where somebody asked about or mentioned a problem with the 2-finger double tap to hang up. There is of course the other way to hang up a call which works 100% and that is to touch the End Cal lbutton which is really not hard to find as it's right there about the ome Key and to double tap it. As somebody else pointed out, it's not hard to check whether a call was hung up or is still connected. 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to contacts This works flawlessly for me and judging by what others wrote also for them. A simple double tap on a phone number asks me whether I want to call it, a double tap and hold brings up the options to call, add to contacts etc. I'd really like to see how this isn't working on Avnish's phone who I think was the one who posted that all of this didn't work. 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. This one I understand is an issue, I can't comment too much on it since I don't use Safari much to fill out web forms. I have done a few Google searches andwas able to type in a search term just find, the same on the Audible site. Anyhow, if it is buggy then I sure hope those who find this so horrible have written to Apple about it. To me this is like voting. If I talk to somebody about politics and they start a big rant about the government I usually ask first if they voted in the last election. More than once somebody said that they don't vote in which case I usually tell them that they might as well shut up then because if they don't participate in electing the government then they have no right to complain. I am not saying Avnish hasn't written to Apple to explain places where encounters problems, but I see a lot of this on the list and I wonder if everybody also takes the time to compose a constructive email to accessibil...@apple.com to make sure they know about the issues. 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. Well, what can I say, Ricardo already said it. Talks has been gone for some time and no Nokia
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
that you don't field text fields on web sites, it is all. It happened before? No, it didn't. Now when we are reading the list of emails, or what ever list of content, voice over jumps every where, and we have to cross the whole list of content again to find where we were before VO jump out. it happened before? No, it didn't. Now, if we are playing a song, or audio book, or what ever kind of media, and we press the power button, VO says the track position. Before VO said the time. Now VO says the track position. It happened before? No, it didn't. I have taken the situation when VO stop talking, my phone is in silence for seconds, or minutes. Some times I have to turn off my phone, guessing pressing the power button for 10 seconds, and making a double tab on the screen, or just holding the power button for more than 10 seconds. What is happening? No body knows, but I am looking emails of people who is getting pretty similar problems. it happened before? No, it didn't! How many, no, It didn't, you want Sieghard? . I understand that VO included new things in IOs 7, but why they have to break things that were working well before? In my opinion, apple didn't care every detail in this last IOs. Now, I am talking about the problems with VO, and are so much more problems that are not in this email. But add to this list the problems that people who is not voice over user is getting? I am not saying that apple is not a good product. It is the better product right now. But they are not taking care of details, as they have done before. While Sangsum is improving and doing better phones every day, apple is not doing a good effort in this issue. So I am not talking about hardware, I am talking about IOs developers. In the last 2 versions of IOs, they included new things, but they broke things that were working well before. One more thing, today we are in November 10, 2013. In one more year, you will see that we will be talking about new bugs, in the new IOs, and the bugs and problems that we are getting now, will not be fixed all of them when the new Ios comes, even though we will have to start, to restart again, with new bugs, and never we will be happy, because every year, they have a new IOs, and we have to restart the hard process of report bugs, bugs that some will be fix, but other never will be fix. So Sieghard. In my opinion again. Apple makes great phones, but I can not say the same thing of the last IOs that I have seen. Remember Sieghard. I am very interested in a iPhone or an iPad working well. I am the owner of those devices. The difference is that I want that apple makes a better effort developing operated system. Our pressure to apple will be good for us, and for apple also. When you make pressure on somebody, you make that person stronger. When you make pressure on apple to fix these silly things that before didn't work bad, but now are not working well, it will make apple stronger. not Sangsum, not Sony, not Panasonic. Apple needs to do a best effort with this issue. It is for apple, more than for us. - Original Message - From: Sieghard Weitzel siegh...@live.ca To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 4:13 PM Subject: RE: When will Apple take this seriously? Hello, Here is my summary of this entire thread: The original poster complained about 3 items and pointed out a fourth: 1. Hanging up phone calls is unreliable 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to contacts 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. Then Pablo jumped in with his well-known rant about how horrible Apple is in general because they make such expensive and terrible devices which don't work, where people are forced to upgrade to iOS 7 and where generally accessibility is terrible and where Pablo's rights are violated in a number of ways. As for Pablo's arguments, I have actually agreed with him in a very general way that Apple should give people the option to say if they wanted a new iOS to download automatically or not. At first I didn't see his point, but he argued this point well and I agree there should be such an option. However, this is in my view the only issue. Apple is not forcing anybody to upgrade to iOS 7. Yes, they are pushing the update and it takes up space on your phone, but you do not have to install it and I'll challenge anybody who says that iOS 7 magically installed on their phone without them doing anything or twice agreeing to the terms and conditions which simply does not happen. If Apple were to allow down the road that one could turn off the automatic downloading then nobody including Pablo could complain in any way because at that point if they upgrade it is entirely their choice. It's already their choice, but let's say somebody has an 8 Gb phone and they really
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
this problem, is a lot of people saying the same thing. It happened before? No, it didn't. Field a text box in a web site, is difficult, or some times impossible. If you don't do it, it doesn't means that it is not a bug. It means that you don't field text fields on web sites, it is all. It happened before? No, it didn't. Now when we are reading the list of emails, or what ever list of content, voice over jumps every where, and we have to cross the whole list of content again to find where we were before VO jump out. it happened before? No, it didn't. Now, if we are playing a song, or audio book, or what ever kind of media, and we press the power button, VO says the track position. Before VO said the time. Now VO says the track position. It happened before? No, it didn't. I have taken the situation when VO stop talking, my phone is in silence for seconds, or minutes. Some times I have to turn off my phone, guessing pressing the power button for 10 seconds, and making a double tab on the screen, or just holding the power button for more than 10 seconds. What is happening? No body knows, but I am looking emails of people who is getting pretty similar problems. it happened before? No, it didn't! How many, no, It didn't, you want Sieghard? . I understand that VO included new things in IOs 7, but why they have to break things that were working well before? In my opinion, apple didn't care every detail in this last IOs. Now, I am talking about the problems with VO, and are so much more problems that are not in this email. But add to this list the problems that people who is not voice over user is getting? I am not saying that apple is not a good product. It is the better product right now. But they are not taking care of details, as they have done before. While Sangsum is improving and doing better phones every day, apple is not doing a good effort in this issue. So I am not talking about hardware, I am talking about IOs developers. In the last 2 versions of IOs, they included new things, but they broke things that were working well before. One more thing, today we are in November 10, 2013. In one more year, you will see that we will be talking about new bugs, in the new IOs, and the bugs and problems that we are getting now, will not be fixed all of them when the new Ios comes, even though we will have to start, to restart again, with new bugs, and never we will be happy, because every year, they have a new IOs, and we have to restart the hard process of report bugs, bugs that some will be fix, but other never will be fix. So Sieghard. In my opinion again. Apple makes great phones, but I can not say the same thing of the last IOs that I have seen. Remember Sieghard. I am very interested in a iPhone or an iPad working well. I am the owner of those devices. The difference is that I want that apple makes a better effort developing operated system. Our pressure to apple will be good for us, and for apple also. When you make pressure on somebody, you make that person stronger. When you make pressure on apple to fix these silly things that before didn't work bad, but now are not working well, it will make apple stronger. not Sangsum, not Sony, not Panasonic. Apple needs to do a best effort with this issue. It is for apple, more than for us. - Original Message - From: Sieghard Weitzel siegh...@live.ca To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 4:13 PM Subject: RE: When will Apple take this seriously? Hello, Here is my summary of this entire thread: The original poster complained about 3 items and pointed out a fourth: 1. Hanging up phone calls is unreliable 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to contacts 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. Then Pablo jumped in with his well-known rant about how horrible Apple is in general because they make such expensive and terrible devices which don't work, where people are forced to upgrade to iOS 7 and where generally accessibility is terrible and where Pablo's rights are violated in a number of ways. As for Pablo's arguments, I have actually agreed with him in a very general way that Apple should give people the option to say if they wanted a new iOS to download automatically or not. At first I didn't see his point, but he argued this point well and I agree there should be such an option. However, this is in my view the only issue. Apple is not forcing anybody to upgrade to iOS 7. Yes, they are pushing the update and it takes up space on your phone, but you do not have to install it and I'll challenge anybody who says that iOS 7 magically installed on their phone without them doing anything or twice agreeing to the terms and conditions which simply does not happen. If Apple were to allow down the road that one could turn
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
Hey Guys! I was having a rough day. I had got a number of text messages with phone numbers that I had to call but could not courtesy Apple. Then I called my girl friend and thought had ended the call. She heard what I was talking with my buddy. So that was a mess. Then I made a long distance call and thought i had ended it. I had not! Got charged 38 dollars for it! Then I was trying to buy am airline ticket but could not fill the form completely, spent 25 minutes. At the end I had bought a ticket for the wrong day and wrong time. Worse. The ticket was non refundable. It was after all this that I started writing to the List. I was venting. I thought I would get some sympathy. Some suggestions. And instead what do I get? No compassion. Just some smart alecs saying that they never had the problem I had. Or that I should not complain. Man! Help reduce list traffic. If you cannot give help to a fellow lister, then just stay mum. No neede to increase traffic by saying that you do not experience the problem. That does not help anyone. No need to sermonize. This list is for persons to share their problems and to get help. It is not to ridicule anyone. If you cannot help, stay quiet. Compassion, patience and understanding. This is not the wild west. No need to shoot the guy who does not agree with your views. Just ignore it, if you cannot help. And a big THANK YOU to all those who understood me and let me vent :) love you guys :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
Actually, it does help to say you are not experiencing a given problem. Not only does this tell people what to expect if, say, they haven’t upgraded to some new version, but it lets you know that maybe the problem is not in the phone. For instance, when I first got my iPhone, Voiceover would always speak notifications, and then do it again a few minutes later. I wrote to a list about the problem, only to be told that it was not a bug at all, just a couple settings I should adjust. Or, what about problems that only affect certain models of devices? If people chime in as to whether or not they have the problem, it lets us find common denominators, which can help Apple to know where to look. I can understand venting after a day of technology seeming to fail. However, when people started pointing to your specific, mostly non-reproduceable problems and saying that they are proof that Apple is horrible and all that, then I have a problem. On Nov 11, 2013, at 1:15 PM, AppleGourmet sen...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Guys! I was having a rough day. I had got a number of text messages with phone numbers that I had to call but could not courtesy Apple. Then I called my girl friend and thought had ended the call. She heard what I was talking with my buddy. So that was a mess. Then I made a long distance call and thought i had ended it. I had not! Got charged 38 dollars for it! Then I was trying to buy am airline ticket but could not fill the form completely, spent 25 minutes. At the end I had bought a ticket for the wrong day and wrong time. Worse. The ticket was non refundable. It was after all this that I started writing to the List. I was venting. I thought I would get some sympathy. Some suggestions. And instead what do I get? No compassion. Just some smart alecs saying that they never had the problem I had. Or that I should not complain. Man! Help reduce list traffic. If you cannot give help to a fellow lister, then just stay mum. No neede to increase traffic by saying that you do not experience the problem. That does not help anyone. No need to sermonize. This list is for persons to share their problems and to get help. It is not to ridicule anyone. If you cannot help, stay quiet. Compassion, patience and understanding. This is not the wild west. No need to shoot the guy who does not agree with your views. Just ignore it, if you cannot help. And a big THANK YOU to all those who understood me and let me vent :) love you guys :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. Have a great day, Alex (msg sent from Mac Mini) mehg...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
In addition, this list is for us to help each other resolve problems we are having. So, writing to the list is implying you are having a problem with the technology, not implying you are merely venting your frustrations. As to your iPhone not disconnecting, twice, this tells me you want to activate the practice area and practice your two-finger double tap. If your fingers are too close together, it is detected as one finger. A single-finger double tap is a very different command from a two-finger double tap. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 12 Nov 2013, at 7:29, Alex Hall mehg...@gmail.com wrote: Actually, it does help to say you are not experiencing a given problem. Not only does this tell people what to expect if, say, they haven’t upgraded to some new version, but it lets you know that maybe the problem is not in the phone. For instance, when I first got my iPhone, Voiceover would always speak notifications, and then do it again a few minutes later. I wrote to a list about the problem, only to be told that it was not a bug at all, just a couple settings I should adjust. Or, what about problems that only affect certain models of devices? If people chime in as to whether or not they have the problem, it lets us find common denominators, which can help Apple to know where to look. I can understand venting after a day of technology seeming to fail. However, when people started pointing to your specific, mostly non-reproduceable problems and saying that they are proof that Apple is horrible and all that, then I have a problem. On Nov 11, 2013, at 1:15 PM, AppleGourmet sen...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Guys! I was having a rough day. I had got a number of text messages with phone numbers that I had to call but could not courtesy Apple. Then I called my girl friend and thought had ended the call. She heard what I was talking with my buddy. So that was a mess. Then I made a long distance call and thought i had ended it. I had not! Got charged 38 dollars for it! Then I was trying to buy am airline ticket but could not fill the form completely, spent 25 minutes. At the end I had bought a ticket for the wrong day and wrong time. Worse. The ticket was non refundable. It was after all this that I started writing to the List. I was venting. I thought I would get some sympathy. Some suggestions. And instead what do I get? No compassion. Just some smart alecs saying that they never had the problem I had. Or that I should not complain. Man! Help reduce list traffic. If you cannot give help to a fellow lister, then just stay mum. No neede to increase traffic by saying that you do not experience the problem. That does not help anyone. No need to sermonize. This list is for persons to share their problems and to get help. It is not to ridicule anyone. If you cannot help, stay quiet. Compassion, patience and understanding. This is not the wild west. No need to shoot the guy who does not agree with your views. Just ignore it, if you cannot help. And a big THANK YOU to all those who understood me and let me vent :) love you guys :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. Have a great day, Alex (msg sent from Mac Mini) mehg...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
I don't think this is what you're saying, but I think we need to be careful here. Accessibility isn't something that were given as a charity and something we should feel grateful for when someone provides it. Accessibility is a right that we should be demanding. Of course, we should be positive and cooperative when someone is working towards accessibility, but we shouldn't just accept whatever comes our way. For example, We shouldn't settle for Mobile Accessibility on Windows Phone 8 and stop pressing Microsoft for greater access to Windows Phone 8 just because they were kind enough to toss us this accessible scrap. It's also a fact that there are accessibility related bugs in IOS 7. People should be bringing these up on list and reporting them to Apple. There may be cases when one person's bug is another person's feature and one person's reporting of an issue is whining to someone else. I don't think accusations of whining and complaining should keep people from mentioning perceived bugs and issues they're having with IOS. I too get frustrated with what I see as people's whining, but I'm hesitant to say where that line should be drawn, and I think we should be careful when we chastise someone for being spoiled and whining. Like I said, we want people talking about the issues they're having with their iPhones because as good as the Iphone is, it could still be better and it could definitely get worse if Apple feels it has to redirect resources away from accessibility and towards other critical projects. On 11/11/2013 02:04 AM, BBS wrote: John and Sieghard, I agree with you guys completely. Like it says in my Skype mood message, some blind people are so spoiled. And it’s true, because look at this thread. We should be lucky that Apple is giving us a pretty good screen reader. I’m just tired of reading threads about people bitching and complaining about Apple not living up to their standards. Even on the Mac list we have people demanding that Apple do this and do that to make Voiceover live up to their standards. I’m tired of this. I think if I find another post about this thread, I’m gonna hit the delete button because that is my friend of course. I’ll just end off by saying if you don’t like Apple, sell your Mac and your iPhone and go to Windows and Android. Now that my rant’s over, Regina, I have an iPhone 4S and I’m not experiencing any wifi issues. Shawn Sent From My White Mac Book On Nov 10, 2013, at 9:17 PM, John Diakogeorgiou jdiakoge2...@gmail.com wrote: I think that Sieghard put it well. I am very tired of listening to people complaining about their phones and the problems they are having. If you are so unhappy with Apple or your IPhone sell it and buy an android phone. For the vast majority of the blind people using this technology it works quite well. Yes their are bugs but they exist with all technology products. At least with the IPhone we have the option to upgrade when a new version of their software comes out. We are not at the mercy of the phone carriers or manufacturers as to whether they will let us upgrade. All in all this technology works well. It has provided us the ability to do much more with our phones than we thought possible just a few short years ago. On 11/10/13, David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you for that summary. I just started reading this thread. The only point I can confirm is item 3. VO has a difficult time tracking in Safari when filling out complex forms. To be fair, many of the forms VO struggles with are also extremely difficult on the computer. They have quite a bit to do with newer web technologies. Other places where VO struggles appear to not move the visual page on the display as one flicks through the form using right flicks. When the button or edit box is not on the visual screen, it will not activate with a double or even, triple tap. However, there is a work-around that works for most websites I have tried. Physically find the edit field and hold your finger on it. This locks it on the visual display. Split-tap with another finger and the edit box is locked in with the keyboard. Because of rapid screen refreshes, it may be impossible to then flick to the next edit field. In this case, locate the done button above the o and p letters on the keyboard and double-tap it. This releases the edit field and one can now locate the next edit field. Follow the same procedure. When finished with the form, locate the continue, submit, or otherly worded button and split-tap it. again, as I previously stated, because of the newer web technologies, many of these complex new web technologies are also complicated, if not impossible, for computer-based screen readers. In Apple's favour, I have been able to access some forms on my iPhone using the above procedure, which people on certain lists have stated that Jaws cannot access on Windows and IE 10. As for Talks and Nokia, the person can always go to the newest
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
Sure, if there is accessibility bug we, as any of a responsible consumer, regardless either we are blind or not blind, should report. However, when it is clearly the user fault, which, frankly speaking, you have 75% of the chance with the case, and each of these user errors and faults got to report to the provider, i bet, soon or later, Apple can choose to do their own thing, or provide the lease accessibility tthat they can for the future software and hardware. I think, for new user, they need to realize that they deal with the new platform, and they also should have the expectation that things will not be the same compare to your old Nokia phone. The sooner they realize this, the better experience they will get instead of keep having the batel against themselves as to how Talks do this and that, and how Voiceover do this and that. You know, back in the old days, i can remember 90% of my family and friends phone numbers, i used to be call as a walking phone book. But now, since i use iPhone, i can't recall my phone number half of the time. Maybe i should write to Apple for that, and asking them to stop the capability of saving phone numbers and contact details. Joanne Chua The flip side of Inclusion is Exclusion. Leaders For Tomorrow 2013 Candidate Send from my iPad On 12 Nov 2013, at 5:23, Christopher Chaltain chalt...@gmail.com wrote: I don't think this is what you're saying, but I think we need to be careful here. Accessibility isn't something that were given as a charity and something we should feel grateful for when someone provides it. Accessibility is a right that we should be demanding. Of course, we should be positive and cooperative when someone is working towards accessibility, but we shouldn't just accept whatever comes our way. For example, We shouldn't settle for Mobile Accessibility on Windows Phone 8 and stop pressing Microsoft for greater access to Windows Phone 8 just because they were kind enough to toss us this accessible scrap. It's also a fact that there are accessibility related bugs in IOS 7. People should be bringing these up on list and reporting them to Apple. There may be cases when one person's bug is another person's feature and one person's reporting of an issue is whining to someone else. I don't think accusations of whining and complaining should keep people from mentioning perceived bugs and issues they're having with IOS. I too get frustrated with what I see as people's whining, but I'm hesitant to say where that line should be drawn, and I think we should be careful when we chastise someone for being spoiled and whining. Like I said, we want people talking about the issues they're having with their iPhones because as good as the Iphone is, it could still be better and it could definitely get worse if Apple feels it has to redirect resources away from accessibility and towards other critical projects. On 11/11/2013 02:04 AM, BBS wrote: John and Sieghard, I agree with you guys completely. Like it says in my Skype mood message, some blind people are so spoiled. And it’s true, because look at this thread. We should be lucky that Apple is giving us a pretty good screen reader. I’m just tired of reading threads about people bitching and complaining about Apple not living up to their standards. Even on the Mac list we have people demanding that Apple do this and do that to make Voiceover live up to their standards. I’m tired of this. I think if I find another post about this thread, I’m gonna hit the delete button because that is my friend of course. I’ll just end off by saying if you don’t like Apple, sell your Mac and your iPhone and go to Windows and Android. Now that my rant’s over, Regina, I have an iPhone 4S and I’m not experiencing any wifi issues. Shawn Sent From My White Mac Book On Nov 10, 2013, at 9:17 PM, John Diakogeorgiou jdiakoge2...@gmail.com wrote: I think that Sieghard put it well. I am very tired of listening to people complaining about their phones and the problems they are having. If you are so unhappy with Apple or your IPhone sell it and buy an android phone. For the vast majority of the blind people using this technology it works quite well. Yes their are bugs but they exist with all technology products. At least with the IPhone we have the option to upgrade when a new version of their software comes out. We are not at the mercy of the phone carriers or manufacturers as to whether they will let us upgrade. All in all this technology works well. It has provided us the ability to do much more with our phones than we thought possible just a few short years ago. On 11/10/13, David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you for that summary. I just started reading this thread. The only point I can confirm is item 3. VO has a difficult time tracking in Safari when filling out complex forms. To be fair, many of the forms VO
RE: When will Apple take this seriously?
Hello, May I suggest that you send all these comments to: accessibil...@apple.com I know venting is a great relief for your frustration but, venting in the right place will help a lot more. Ron Danvers -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of sen...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 7:41 AM To: ViPhone Subject: When will Apple take this seriously? This is very frustrating. Hordes of emails have circulated with the many shortcomings of IOS7. Many bugss and shortcomings that have appeared in ver 7 that were not in IOS6. It becomes very frustrating when even the basic phone functions are compromised. 1. Ending calls is a pain. Countless times I thought I had ended the call but it was active. This has lead to embarrassing situations and also a drain on my wallet due to large long distance call charges. 2. When I get phone numbers in a text message, I should be able to call or message or store the number with a tap. No! I could do it with my 6 year old Nokia better. 3. Entering data in a web form has become a nightmare. With my previous phones running Talks I could do much better. I pay 10 times to get a iphone and guess what? I can do less with it! Very frustrating. This list could go on and on. . . . New models will launch, new IOS versions will roll out. . . But the shortcomings and bugs will stick with us. Technology for the sake of technology. But no technology for the visually challenged. Wish someone would charge more but make a phone that works. With IOS7 AND IPHONE all one can do is pull ones hair out, welcome to a bald world populated with buggy iphones! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
RE: When will Apple take this seriously?
Hey Pablo, I have read your message very carefully and have not heard you mention a single thing that is good about Apple. The first question that comes to my mind is: Why does the guy still have an Apple product if its that bad. One thing you must admit about Apple is that it has a very good re-sale value. Have you considered taking advantage of that? You say the price is very high on Apple, you could sell your Apple, buy an Android and probably have some money left over. Now, what do you think about that! Ron Danvers -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pablo Morales Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 10:21 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Nope. I don't agree it. Apple sales their toys at a very high price. As I said before, and iPhone today is more money that the money that the most part of the people on the world makes in one year. What does that mean for me? If they are charging a very high price for their toys, they should offer good toys, and do not be hide behind the excuse that every IOs or every operated system, has bugs, it is a really poor excuse. Why it is a very poor excuse? Every year apple start saying that they have a new IOs, it is the better IOs, it is the more advance operated system in the galaxy, no body on the world, and around the world has a better operated system, and at the same time, they say that they will not provide more support to devices who doesn't have install IOs 7. So is mandatory has IOs 7 installed. Now, every year, apple create a new IOs, and every creation brings bugs, problems, and bunches of things that are real problems for sighted and blind people. We have more than one month talking about it in the list. Apple doesn't learn of the previous experiences? Apple is not paying attention to the mistakes that they did before? Apple is giving job to new developers every year and giving lay off to the older developers, because every year, customers, sighted and blind, we have to be suffering the bugs of new operated systems, and when we come to the end of the year, we do not have every bug fixed, no, it never is cover, but we have to update to a new operated system, and start again. In my opinion, the fault here is in our side. Apple is doing what the people wants. Apple is hearing people saying that, oh, no, every operated system has bugs, oh, no, it worse with the last IOs, instead heard people saying, hey apple, we do not accept it, and we are not going to update our devices until you do a better job. Every year, the bugs are worse and worse. Do you remember IOs 5? It has bugs, of course, but do you remember when came IOs6? It has more bugs than IOs 5, and now Ios 7 has more than Ios 6. So every year we are worse. But we have people saying that, oh, no, every Operated system has bugs. So apple is doing what the customers wants. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
Yes, the initial complaints from the venting message in this thread were quite obviously user error, not errors in the OS. Two-finger double tap, with the fingers slightly spread always answers and ends phone calls. If it does not end the phone call, this is always and exclusively because the gesture was performed incorrectly. It is solely and completely the user's responsibility to become fully proficient at performing the gestures properly. Apple has a specific practice area set up exclusively to help each of us learn, and perfect, our gestures. It is not Apple's fault or responsibility when we do not perform the gesture properly. The fault / blame / responsibility falls squarely and entirely on the shoulders of the person who has not properly learned the gestures. Consider it this way. I cannot get Windows to copy a file. No matter how many times I press control d, the file will not copy. Is it Microsoft's fault that I am pressing control d rather than control c? Properly performing gestures is exactly and precisely the same thing! David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 12 Nov 2013, at 11:06, Joanne Chua shuang.an...@gmail.com wrote: Sure, if there is accessibility bug we, as any of a responsible consumer, regardless either we are blind or not blind, should report. However, when it is clearly the user fault, which, frankly speaking, you have 75% of the chance with the case, and each of these user errors and faults got to report to the provider, i bet, soon or later, Apple can choose to do their own thing, or provide the lease accessibility tthat they can for the future software and hardware. I think, for new user, they need to realize that they deal with the new platform, and they also should have the expectation that things will not be the same compare to your old Nokia phone. The sooner they realize this, the better experience they will get instead of keep having the batel against themselves as to how Talks do this and that, and how Voiceover do this and that. You know, back in the old days, i can remember 90% of my family and friends phone numbers, i used to be call as a walking phone book. But now, since i use iPhone, i can't recall my phone number half of the time. Maybe i should write to Apple for that, and asking them to stop the capability of saving phone numbers and contact details. Joanne Chua The flip side of Inclusion is Exclusion. Leaders For Tomorrow 2013 Candidate Send from my iPad On 12 Nov 2013, at 5:23, Christopher Chaltain chalt...@gmail.com wrote: I don't think this is what you're saying, but I think we need to be careful here. Accessibility isn't something that were given as a charity and something we should feel grateful for when someone provides it. Accessibility is a right that we should be demanding. Of course, we should be positive and cooperative when someone is working towards accessibility, but we shouldn't just accept whatever comes our way. For example, We shouldn't settle for Mobile Accessibility on Windows Phone 8 and stop pressing Microsoft for greater access to Windows Phone 8 just because they were kind enough to toss us this accessible scrap. It's also a fact that there are accessibility related bugs in IOS 7. People should be bringing these up on list and reporting them to Apple. There may be cases when one person's bug is another person's feature and one person's reporting of an issue is whining to someone else. I don't think accusations of whining and complaining should keep people from mentioning perceived bugs and issues they're having with IOS. I too get frustrated with what I see as people's whining, but I'm hesitant to say where that line should be drawn, and I think we should be careful when we chastise someone for being spoiled and whining. Like I said, we want people talking about the issues they're having with their iPhones because as good as the Iphone is, it could still be better and it could definitely get worse if Apple feels it has to redirect resources away from accessibility and towards other critical projects. On 11/11/2013 02:04 AM, BBS wrote: John and Sieghard, I agree with you guys completely. Like it says in my Skype mood message, some blind people are so spoiled. And it’s true, because look at this thread. We should be lucky that Apple is giving us a pretty good screen reader. I’m just tired of reading threads about people bitching and complaining about Apple not living up to their standards. Even on the Mac list we have people demanding that Apple do this and do that to make Voiceover live up to their standards. I’m tired of this. I think if I find another post about this thread, I’m gonna hit the delete button because that is my friend of course. I’ll just end off by saying if you don’t like Apple, sell your Mac and your iPhone and go to Windows
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
Ending calls works fine for me. Also, if you get VO to say anything, you can tell right away if a call is active or not. When you are on a call, VO has the same sound quality as the call, which is very different from how it sounds normally. Also, what problems do you have entering data on a form? Perhaps it is a case of being unsure how something works? I don’t do a lot with Safari, so I may have missed this particular bug. I can save/call phone numbers in messages very easily, what trouble do you have there? On Nov 10, 2013, at 7:40 AM, sen...@gmail.com wrote: This is very frustrating. Hordes of emails have circulated with the many shortcomings of IOS7. Many bugss and shortcomings that have appeared in ver 7 that were not in IOS6. It becomes very frustrating when even the basic phone functions are compromised. 1. Ending calls is a pain. Countless times I thought I had ended the call but it was active. This has lead to embarrassing situations and also a drain on my wallet due to large long distance call charges. 2. When I get phone numbers in a text message, I should be able to call or message or store the number with a tap. No! I could do it with my 6 year old Nokia better. 3. Entering data in a web form has become a nightmare. With my previous phones running Talks I could do much better. I pay 10 times to get a iphone and guess what? I can do less with it! Very frustrating. This list could go on and on. . . . New models will launch, new IOS versions will roll out. . . But the shortcomings and bugs will stick with us. Technology for the sake of technology. But no technology for the visually challenged. Wish someone would charge more but make a phone that works. With IOS7 AND IPHONE all one can do is pull ones hair out, welcome to a bald world populated with buggy iphones! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. Have a great day, Alex (msg sent from Mac Mini) mehg...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
I haven’t had any of these problems. In fact some things that annoyed me work better with this version. Other things like the calendar had to get use to the layout. May and Prince Noah www.canadianlynx.ca On Nov 10, 2013, at 7:40 AM, sen...@gmail.com wrote: This is very frustrating. Hordes of emails have circulated with the many shortcomings of IOS7. Many bugss and shortcomings that have appeared in ver 7 that were not in IOS6. It becomes very frustrating when even the basic phone functions are compromised. 1. Ending calls is a pain. Countless times I thought I had ended the call but it was active. This has lead to embarrassing situations and also a drain on my wallet due to large long distance call charges. 2. When I get phone numbers in a text message, I should be able to call or message or store the number with a tap. No! I could do it with my 6 year old Nokia better. 3. Entering data in a web form has become a nightmare. With my previous phones running Talks I could do much better. I pay 10 times to get a iphone and guess what? I can do less with it! Very frustrating. This list could go on and on. . . . New models will launch, new IOS versions will roll out. . . But the shortcomings and bugs will stick with us. Technology for the sake of technology. But no technology for the visually challenged. Wish someone would charge more but make a phone that works. With IOS7 AND IPHONE all one can do is pull ones hair out, welcome to a bald world populated with buggy iphones! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
Yes, it is that I have been saying since IOs 6 came. Looks like every time apple write a new code, with new developers, and the accessibility problems every time are worse. They are not learning of the previous IOs experiences, they are not paying attention to it, or they want to become the accessibility in something that another company will care. With IOs 7, I am getting the same problems than you, and bunches of others. But the response that I found is that every IOs brings bugs. It is a very poor excuse, because with IOs 7, is when I have been taking more problems to access information with my apple devices. Apple wants that every year, every body update the IOs, saying that not more support for older versions of the IOs, but at the same time, we have to be suffering during the year, the bugs that every IOs brings, we come to the end of the year, and start again with another IOs. It is not fir. - Original Message - From: sen...@gmail.com To: ViPhone viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 7:40 AM Subject: When will Apple take this seriously? This is very frustrating. Hordes of emails have circulated with the many shortcomings of IOS7. Many bugss and shortcomings that have appeared in ver 7 that were not in IOS6. It becomes very frustrating when even the basic phone functions are compromised. 1. Ending calls is a pain. Countless times I thought I had ended the call but it was active. This has lead to embarrassing situations and also a drain on my wallet due to large long distance call charges. 2. When I get phone numbers in a text message, I should be able to call or message or store the number with a tap. No! I could do it with my 6 year old Nokia better. 3. Entering data in a web form has become a nightmare. With my previous phones running Talks I could do much better. I pay 10 times to get a iphone and guess what? I can do less with it! Very frustrating. This list could go on and on. . . . New models will launch, new IOS versions will roll out. . . But the shortcomings and bugs will stick with us. Technology for the sake of technology. But no technology for the visually challenged. Wish someone would charge more but make a phone that works. With IOS7 AND IPHONE all one can do is pull ones hair out, welcome to a bald world populated with buggy iphones! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
hi, This's not unique to apple or ios. Anytime generlay anything is upgraded to take advantage of new tecknology you'll have bugs just due to the large ammount of work that goes into an oporating system. If they waited till it was fully debugged they'd not role one out every year. Granted I'd love that I'm kinda old school if it's not broke don't fix it. in my openion windows peaked with xp and apple peaked with teh 4s Reguardless all you can really do is report bugs and wait. I don't think we'l stop development of new oporating systems totake advantage of new tecknology. Pluss the developers won't wait till it's fully debugged because I'm sure it goes through a prossess like that but, all the bugs won't be realised untill it's out in the field and people make individual use of it and all it's various functions. I'm not happy about how things owrk eather but, they're not likely to change unless new tecknology stops being developed. Sincerely, Billy Maynard P.S. I don't emedieltly upgrade to the latest anything as soon as it's out to parshaly not run into the problums. - Original Message - From: Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 8:50 AM Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Yes, it is that I have been saying since IOs 6 came. Looks like every time apple write a new code, with new developers, and the accessibility problems every time are worse. They are not learning of the previous IOs experiences, they are not paying attention to it, or they want to become the accessibility in something that another company will care. With IOs 7, I am getting the same problems than you, and bunches of others. But the response that I found is that every IOs brings bugs. It is a very poor excuse, because with IOs 7, is when I have been taking more problems to access information with my apple devices. Apple wants that every year, every body update the IOs, saying that not more support for older versions of the IOs, but at the same time, we have to be suffering during the year, the bugs that every IOs brings, we come to the end of the year, and start again with another IOs. It is not fir. - Original Message - From: sen...@gmail.com To: ViPhone viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 7:40 AM Subject: When will Apple take this seriously? This is very frustrating. Hordes of emails have circulated with the many shortcomings of IOS7. Many bugss and shortcomings that have appeared in ver 7 that were not in IOS6. It becomes very frustrating when even the basic phone functions are compromised. 1. Ending calls is a pain. Countless times I thought I had ended the call but it was active. This has lead to embarrassing situations and also a drain on my wallet due to large long distance call charges. 2. When I get phone numbers in a text message, I should be able to call or message or store the number with a tap. No! I could do it with my 6 year old Nokia better. 3. Entering data in a web form has become a nightmare. With my previous phones running Talks I could do much better. I pay 10 times to get a iphone and guess what? I can do less with it! Very frustrating. This list could go on and on. . . . New models will launch, new IOS versions will roll out. . . But the shortcomings and bugs will stick with us. Technology for the sake of technology. But no technology for the visually challenged. Wish someone would charge more but make a phone that works. With IOS7 AND IPHONE all one can do is pull ones hair out, welcome to a bald world populated with buggy iphones! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
Hi, With respect, let me go through some of the things below. In regards to hanging up a call. Yes, I have notice that doing a 2 finger double tap doesn’t always hang up a call on the first try. Generally, the second try will do the trick. About phone numbers in a text, turn the rotor to links, flick down to the number, and double tap and hold. A dialog appears asking you if you want to call, text, or save the number to contacts. This is not a bug. If you don’t like the way its now done that’s one thing. But it isn’t broken. Web forms? Yes. This is definitely buggy in IOS 7. There is no excuse for that. But I will continue to say, I think some people on the list have very short memories. Remember all the bugs that were found in IOS 6 when it first launched? I’m sorry, bugs in software is just a fact of life at launch. There have been a couple minor updates. But we are still on a .0 release. Can we at least hold off until 7.1 comes out so we can see what’s what? And about the persons Nokia phone, last time I checked, it was running a dead OS, a non existent app store in which I bet the accessible apps were slim pickings indeed. I say this just to point out, if you want to take 3 or 4 bugs, and compare it to an operating system that no longer being supported, that’s fine. But, anyone can do that. JMO Ricardo Walker rica...@appletothecore.info Twitter:@apple2thecore www.appletothecore.info On Nov 10, 2013, at 9:50 AM, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, it is that I have been saying since IOs 6 came. Looks like every time apple write a new code, with new developers, and the accessibility problems every time are worse. They are not learning of the previous IOs experiences, they are not paying attention to it, or they want to become the accessibility in something that another company will care. With IOs 7, I am getting the same problems than you, and bunches of others. But the response that I found is that every IOs brings bugs. It is a very poor excuse, because with IOs 7, is when I have been taking more problems to access information with my apple devices. Apple wants that every year, every body update the IOs, saying that not more support for older versions of the IOs, but at the same time, we have to be suffering during the year, the bugs that every IOs brings, we come to the end of the year, and start again with another IOs. It is not fir. - Original Message - From: sen...@gmail.com To: ViPhone viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 7:40 AM Subject: When will Apple take this seriously? This is very frustrating. Hordes of emails have circulated with the many shortcomings of IOS7. Many bugss and shortcomings that have appeared in ver 7 that were not in IOS6. It becomes very frustrating when even the basic phone functions are compromised. 1. Ending calls is a pain. Countless times I thought I had ended the call but it was active. This has lead to embarrassing situations and also a drain on my wallet due to large long distance call charges. 2. When I get phone numbers in a text message, I should be able to call or message or store the number with a tap. No! I could do it with my 6 year old Nokia better. 3. Entering data in a web form has become a nightmare. With my previous phones running Talks I could do much better. I pay 10 times to get a iphone and guess what? I can do less with it! Very frustrating. This list could go on and on. . . . New models will launch, new IOS versions will roll out. . . But the shortcomings and bugs will stick with us. Technology for the sake of technology. But no technology for the visually challenged. Wish someone would charge more but make a phone that works. With IOS7 AND IPHONE all one can do is pull ones hair out, welcome to a bald world populated with buggy iphones! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
In addition, do you really think iOS is perfect if you are not using VO? There are bugs in it and the new Mac OS release for sighted people as well, some very long-standing. Just because there are bugs in accessibility does not mean that Apple doesn't care about accessibility or does not take it seriously, because if you extend that logic, then bugs anywhere must mean they don't care about any of their software. Voiceover is no different from any other aspect of Apple's products: it is mostly great, it has bugs, they fix the bugs, they update, more bugs come along, and the cycle continues. That's true of all software anywhere. Sent from my iPhone On Nov 10, 2013, at 10:01, Ricardo Walker rwalker...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, With respect, let me go through some of the things below. In regards to hanging up a call. Yes, I have notice that doing a 2 finger double tap doesn’t always hang up a call on the first try. Generally, the second try will do the trick. About phone numbers in a text, turn the rotor to links, flick down to the number, and double tap and hold. A dialog appears asking you if you want to call, text, or save the number to contacts. This is not a bug. If you don’t like the way its now done that’s one thing. But it isn’t broken. Web forms? Yes. This is definitely buggy in IOS 7. There is no excuse for that. But I will continue to say, I think some people on the list have very short memories. Remember all the bugs that were found in IOS 6 when it first launched? I’m sorry, bugs in software is just a fact of life at launch. There have been a couple minor updates. But we are still on a .0 release. Can we at least hold off until 7.1 comes out so we can see what’s what? And about the persons Nokia phone, last time I checked, it was running a dead OS, a non existent app store in which I bet the accessible apps were slim pickings indeed. I say this just to point out, if you want to take 3 or 4 bugs, and compare it to an operating system that no longer being supported, that’s fine. But, anyone can do that. JMO Ricardo Walker rica...@appletothecore.info Twitter:@apple2thecore www.appletothecore.info On Nov 10, 2013, at 9:50 AM, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, it is that I have been saying since IOs 6 came. Looks like every time apple write a new code, with new developers, and the accessibility problems every time are worse. They are not learning of the previous IOs experiences, they are not paying attention to it, or they want to become the accessibility in something that another company will care. With IOs 7, I am getting the same problems than you, and bunches of others. But the response that I found is that every IOs brings bugs. It is a very poor excuse, because with IOs 7, is when I have been taking more problems to access information with my apple devices. Apple wants that every year, every body update the IOs, saying that not more support for older versions of the IOs, but at the same time, we have to be suffering during the year, the bugs that every IOs brings, we come to the end of the year, and start again with another IOs. It is not fir. - Original Message - From: sen...@gmail.com To: ViPhone viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 7:40 AM Subject: When will Apple take this seriously? This is very frustrating. Hordes of emails have circulated with the many shortcomings of IOS7. Many bugss and shortcomings that have appeared in ver 7 that were not in IOS6. It becomes very frustrating when even the basic phone functions are compromised. 1. Ending calls is a pain. Countless times I thought I had ended the call but it was active. This has lead to embarrassing situations and also a drain on my wallet due to large long distance call charges. 2. When I get phone numbers in a text message, I should be able to call or message or store the number with a tap. No! I could do it with my 6 year old Nokia better. 3. Entering data in a web form has become a nightmare. With my previous phones running Talks I could do much better. I pay 10 times to get a iphone and guess what? I can do less with it! Very frustrating. This list could go on and on. . . . New models will launch, new IOS versions will roll out. . . But the shortcomings and bugs will stick with us. Technology for the sake of technology. But no technology for the visually challenged. Wish someone would charge more but make a phone that works. With IOS7 AND IPHONE all one can do is pull ones hair out, welcome to a bald world populated with buggy iphones! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
Nope. I don't agree it. Apple sales their toys at a very high price. As I said before, and iPhone today is more money that the money that the most part of the people on the world makes in one year. What does that mean for me? If they are charging a very high price for their toys, they should offer good toys, and do not be hide behind the excuse that every IOs or every operated system, has bugs, it is a really poor excuse. Why it is a very poor excuse? Every year apple start saying that they have a new IOs, it is the better IOs, it is the more advance operated system in the galaxy, no body on the world, and around the world has a better operated system, and at the same time, they say that they will not provide more support to devices who doesn't have install IOs 7. So is mandatory has IOs 7 installed. Now, every year, apple create a new IOs, and every creation brings bugs, problems, and bunches of things that are real problems for sighted and blind people. We have more than one month talking about it in the list. Apple doesn't learn of the previous experiences? Apple is not paying attention to the mistakes that they did before? Apple is giving job to new developers every year and giving lay off to the older developers, because every year, customers, sighted and blind, we have to be suffering the bugs of new operated systems, and when we come to the end of the year, we do not have every bug fixed, no, it never is cover, but we have to update to a new operated system, and start again. In my opinion, the fault here is in our side. Apple is doing what the people wants. Apple is hearing people saying that, oh, no, every operated system has bugs, oh, no, it worse with the last IOs, instead heard people saying, hey apple, we do not accept it, and we are not going to update our devices until you do a better job. Every year, the bugs are worse and worse. Do you remember IOs 5? It has bugs, of course, but do you remember when came IOs6? It has more bugs than IOs 5, and now Ios 7 has more than Ios 6. So every year we are worse. But we have people saying that, oh, no, every Operated system has bugs. So apple is doing what the customers wants. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
If apple charge the same money than other business, I can agree what you say. But apple is not the cheaper or the standard price for their products. Of course, I feel that I have right of say that I am in disagreement when I pay a thousand dollars for a phone, and I have to be fighting with the accessibility, when it was working better in previous versions of IOs. Yes, I feel that I have right to be saying that I don't like it. - Original Message - From: Alex Hall mehg...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Cc: viphone viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 10:13 AM Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? In addition, do you really think iOS is perfect if you are not using VO? There are bugs in it and the new Mac OS release for sighted people as well, some very long-standing. Just because there are bugs in accessibility does not mean that Apple doesn't care about accessibility or does not take it seriously, because if you extend that logic, then bugs anywhere must mean they don't care about any of their software. Voiceover is no different from any other aspect of Apple's products: it is mostly great, it has bugs, they fix the bugs, they update, more bugs come along, and the cycle continues. That's true of all software anywhere. Sent from my iPhone On Nov 10, 2013, at 10:01, Ricardo Walker rwalker...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, With respect, let me go through some of the things below. In regards to hanging up a call. Yes, I have notice that doing a 2 finger double tap doesn’t always hang up a call on the first try. Generally, the second try will do the trick. About phone numbers in a text, turn the rotor to links, flick down to the number, and double tap and hold. A dialog appears asking you if you want to call, text, or save the number to contacts. This is not a bug. If you don’t like the way its now done that’s one thing. But it isn’t broken. Web forms? Yes. This is definitely buggy in IOS 7. There is no excuse for that. But I will continue to say, I think some people on the list have very short memories. Remember all the bugs that were found in IOS 6 when it first launched? I’m sorry, bugs in software is just a fact of life at launch. There have been a couple minor updates. But we are still on a .0 release. Can we at least hold off until 7.1 comes out so we can see what’s what? And about the persons Nokia phone, last time I checked, it was running a dead OS, a non existent app store in which I bet the accessible apps were slim pickings indeed. I say this just to point out, if you want to take 3 or 4 bugs, and compare it to an operating system that no longer being supported, that’s fine. But, anyone can do that. JMO Ricardo Walker rica...@appletothecore.info Twitter:@apple2thecore www.appletothecore.info On Nov 10, 2013, at 9:50 AM, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, it is that I have been saying since IOs 6 came. Looks like every time apple write a new code, with new developers, and the accessibility problems every time are worse. They are not learning of the previous IOs experiences, they are not paying attention to it, or they want to become the accessibility in something that another company will care. With IOs 7, I am getting the same problems than you, and bunches of others. But the response that I found is that every IOs brings bugs. It is a very poor excuse, because with IOs 7, is when I have been taking more problems to access information with my apple devices. Apple wants that every year, every body update the IOs, saying that not more support for older versions of the IOs, but at the same time, we have to be suffering during the year, the bugs that every IOs brings, we come to the end of the year, and start again with another IOs. It is not fir. - Original Message - From: sen...@gmail.com To: ViPhone viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 7:40 AM Subject: When will Apple take this seriously? This is very frustrating. Hordes of emails have circulated with the many shortcomings of IOS7. Many bugss and shortcomings that have appeared in ver 7 that were not in IOS6. It becomes very frustrating when even the basic phone functions are compromised. 1. Ending calls is a pain. Countless times I thought I had ended the call but it was active. This has lead to embarrassing situations and also a drain on my wallet due to large long distance call charges. 2. When I get phone numbers in a text message, I should be able to call or message or store the number with a tap. No! I could do it with my 6 year old Nokia better. 3. Entering data in a web form has become a nightmare. With my previous phones running Talks I could do much better. I pay 10 times to get a iphone and guess what? I can do less with it! Very frustrating. This list could go on and on. . . . New models will launch, new IOS versions will roll out. . . But the shortcomings
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
Hi, But you don’t have to buy it. That’s the thing. Just because you pay a high price for something doesn’t mean it will be perfect. For example, go buy a Samsung Galaxy 4, and turn on Talkback. This phone costs about the same as an iPhone 5S. I assure you this phone has bugs too. If it has been established that no public OS is bug free, why hold Apple to a standard that no one else has ever achieved? I’m not saying don’t be upset by bugs. I’m saying they are to be expected to a certain extent. For all the bugs, how many people actually return iPhones? Not many I’ll tell you that. I believe they have a return rate under 2%. Ricardo Walker rica...@appletothecore.info Twitter:@apple2thecore www.appletothecore.info On Nov 10, 2013, at 10:21 AM, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: Nope. I don't agree it. Apple sales their toys at a very high price. As I said before, and iPhone today is more money that the money that the most part of the people on the world makes in one year. What does that mean for me? If they are charging a very high price for their toys, they should offer good toys, and do not be hide behind the excuse that every IOs or every operated system, has bugs, it is a really poor excuse. Why it is a very poor excuse? Every year apple start saying that they have a new IOs, it is the better IOs, it is the more advance operated system in the galaxy, no body on the world, and around the world has a better operated system, and at the same time, they say that they will not provide more support to devices who doesn't have install IOs 7. So is mandatory has IOs 7 installed. Now, every year, apple create a new IOs, and every creation brings bugs, problems, and bunches of things that are real problems for sighted and blind people. We have more than one month talking about it in the list. Apple doesn't learn of the previous experiences? Apple is not paying attention to the mistakes that they did before? Apple is giving job to new developers every year and giving lay off to the older developers, because every year, customers, sighted and blind, we have to be suffering the bugs of new operated systems, and when we come to the end of the year, we do not have every bug fixed, no, it never is cover, but we have to update to a new operated system, and start again. In my opinion, the fault here is in our side. Apple is doing what the people wants. Apple is hearing people saying that, oh, no, every operated system has bugs, oh, no, it worse with the last IOs, instead heard people saying, hey apple, we do not accept it, and we are not going to update our devices until you do a better job. Every year, the bugs are worse and worse. Do you remember IOs 5? It has bugs, of course, but do you remember when came IOs6? It has more bugs than IOs 5, and now Ios 7 has more than Ios 6. So every year we are worse. But we have people saying that, oh, no, every Operated system has bugs. So apple is doing what the customers wants. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
Then if you don’t like it switch to something you do like and find easier to use. no one is holding a gun to your head and making you stay with apple products. May and Prince Noah www.canadianlynx.ca On Nov 10, 2013, at 10:27 AM, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: If apple charge the same money than other business, I can agree what you say. But apple is not the cheaper or the standard price for their products. Of course, I feel that I have right of say that I am in disagreement when I pay a thousand dollars for a phone, and I have to be fighting with the accessibility, when it was working better in previous versions of IOs. Yes, I feel that I have right to be saying that I don't like it. - Original Message - From: Alex Hall mehg...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Cc: viphone viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 10:13 AM Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? In addition, do you really think iOS is perfect if you are not using VO? There are bugs in it and the new Mac OS release for sighted people as well, some very long-standing. Just because there are bugs in accessibility does not mean that Apple doesn't care about accessibility or does not take it seriously, because if you extend that logic, then bugs anywhere must mean they don't care about any of their software. Voiceover is no different from any other aspect of Apple's products: it is mostly great, it has bugs, they fix the bugs, they update, more bugs come along, and the cycle continues. That's true of all software anywhere. Sent from my iPhone On Nov 10, 2013, at 10:01, Ricardo Walker rwalker...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, With respect, let me go through some of the things below. In regards to hanging up a call. Yes, I have notice that doing a 2 finger double tap doesn’t always hang up a call on the first try. Generally, the second try will do the trick. About phone numbers in a text, turn the rotor to links, flick down to the number, and double tap and hold. A dialog appears asking you if you want to call, text, or save the number to contacts. This is not a bug. If you don’t like the way its now done that’s one thing. But it isn’t broken. Web forms? Yes. This is definitely buggy in IOS 7. There is no excuse for that. But I will continue to say, I think some people on the list have very short memories. Remember all the bugs that were found in IOS 6 when it first launched? I’m sorry, bugs in software is just a fact of life at launch. There have been a couple minor updates. But we are still on a .0 release. Can we at least hold off until 7.1 comes out so we can see what’s what? And about the persons Nokia phone, last time I checked, it was running a dead OS, a non existent app store in which I bet the accessible apps were slim pickings indeed. I say this just to point out, if you want to take 3 or 4 bugs, and compare it to an operating system that no longer being supported, that’s fine. But, anyone can do that. JMO Ricardo Walker rica...@appletothecore.info Twitter:@apple2thecore www.appletothecore.info On Nov 10, 2013, at 9:50 AM, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, it is that I have been saying since IOs 6 came. Looks like every time apple write a new code, with new developers, and the accessibility problems every time are worse. They are not learning of the previous IOs experiences, they are not paying attention to it, or they want to become the accessibility in something that another company will care. With IOs 7, I am getting the same problems than you, and bunches of others. But the response that I found is that every IOs brings bugs. It is a very poor excuse, because with IOs 7, is when I have been taking more problems to access information with my apple devices. Apple wants that every year, every body update the IOs, saying that not more support for older versions of the IOs, but at the same time, we have to be suffering during the year, the bugs that every IOs brings, we come to the end of the year, and start again with another IOs. It is not fir. - Original Message - From: sen...@gmail.com To: ViPhone viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 7:40 AM Subject: When will Apple take this seriously? This is very frustrating. Hordes of emails have circulated with the many shortcomings of IOS7. Many bugss and shortcomings that have appeared in ver 7 that were not in IOS6. It becomes very frustrating when even the basic phone functions are compromised. 1. Ending calls is a pain. Countless times I thought I had ended the call but it was active. This has lead to embarrassing situations and also a drain on my wallet due to large long distance call charges. 2. When I get phone numbers in a text message, I should be able to call or message or store the number with a tap. No! I could do
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
Hi, It’s not about having the right or not having the right. You can do and say whatever you want. But it doesn’t change the facts. Software can be easily fixed. What sets Apple apart in many respects is their premium hardware. That’s why people pay high prices as well as the IOS ecosystem. Hundreds of thousands of apps, and thousands of accessories. That is what people are really paying for. I honestly think you should pick up a cheap Android phone an compare. I think then you will look at your iPhone, even with the faults of IOS a little more favorably. Ricardo Walker rica...@appletothecore.info Twitter:@apple2thecore www.appletothecore.info On Nov 10, 2013, at 10:27 AM, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: If apple charge the same money than other business, I can agree what you say. But apple is not the cheaper or the standard price for their products. Of course, I feel that I have right of say that I am in disagreement when I pay a thousand dollars for a phone, and I have to be fighting with the accessibility, when it was working better in previous versions of IOs. Yes, I feel that I have right to be saying that I don't like it. - Original Message - From: Alex Hall mehg...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Cc: viphone viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 10:13 AM Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? In addition, do you really think iOS is perfect if you are not using VO? There are bugs in it and the new Mac OS release for sighted people as well, some very long-standing. Just because there are bugs in accessibility does not mean that Apple doesn't care about accessibility or does not take it seriously, because if you extend that logic, then bugs anywhere must mean they don't care about any of their software. Voiceover is no different from any other aspect of Apple's products: it is mostly great, it has bugs, they fix the bugs, they update, more bugs come along, and the cycle continues. That's true of all software anywhere. Sent from my iPhone On Nov 10, 2013, at 10:01, Ricardo Walker rwalker...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, With respect, let me go through some of the things below. In regards to hanging up a call. Yes, I have notice that doing a 2 finger double tap doesn’t always hang up a call on the first try. Generally, the second try will do the trick. About phone numbers in a text, turn the rotor to links, flick down to the number, and double tap and hold. A dialog appears asking you if you want to call, text, or save the number to contacts. This is not a bug. If you don’t like the way its now done that’s one thing. But it isn’t broken. Web forms? Yes. This is definitely buggy in IOS 7. There is no excuse for that. But I will continue to say, I think some people on the list have very short memories. Remember all the bugs that were found in IOS 6 when it first launched? I’m sorry, bugs in software is just a fact of life at launch. There have been a couple minor updates. But we are still on a .0 release. Can we at least hold off until 7.1 comes out so we can see what’s what? And about the persons Nokia phone, last time I checked, it was running a dead OS, a non existent app store in which I bet the accessible apps were slim pickings indeed. I say this just to point out, if you want to take 3 or 4 bugs, and compare it to an operating system that no longer being supported, that’s fine. But, anyone can do that. JMO Ricardo Walker rica...@appletothecore.info Twitter:@apple2thecore www.appletothecore.info On Nov 10, 2013, at 9:50 AM, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, it is that I have been saying since IOs 6 came. Looks like every time apple write a new code, with new developers, and the accessibility problems every time are worse. They are not learning of the previous IOs experiences, they are not paying attention to it, or they want to become the accessibility in something that another company will care. With IOs 7, I am getting the same problems than you, and bunches of others. But the response that I found is that every IOs brings bugs. It is a very poor excuse, because with IOs 7, is when I have been taking more problems to access information with my apple devices. Apple wants that every year, every body update the IOs, saying that not more support for older versions of the IOs, but at the same time, we have to be suffering during the year, the bugs that every IOs brings, we come to the end of the year, and start again with another IOs. It is not fir. - Original Message - From: sen...@gmail.com To: ViPhone viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 7:40 AM Subject: When will Apple take this seriously? This is very frustrating. Hordes of emails have circulated with the many shortcomings of IOS7. Many bugss and shortcomings that have
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
'I will jump in here. I have found very little in 703 that I truly have a problem with, but if Appple really knew about the wifi issue om 4s and 4, that is by far the worst bug of them all Any other bug there ways to get around them, but to not tell people with 4s not to upgrade was unconcionable. I still would rather have Apple with their accessibility than need to buy my voice and maybe or maybe not have it work. Better watch how much you complain Pablo. Apple could decide we are too small a community to worry about! My problem has noathing to do with accessibility. All in all VO works well, and they keep improving it as we go along. reggie and Allegra On Nov 10, 2013, at 10:27 AM, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: If apple charge the same money than other business, I can agree what you say. But apple is not the cheaper or the standard price for their products. Of course, I feel that I have right of say that I am in disagreement when I pay a thousand dollars for a phone, and I have to be fighting with the accessibility, when it was working better in previous versions of IOs. Yes, I feel that I have right to be saying that I don't like it. - Original Message - From: Alex Hall mehg...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Cc: viphone viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 10:13 AM Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? In addition, do you really think iOS is perfect if you are not using VO? There are bugs in it and the new Mac OS release for sighted people as well, some very long-standing. Just because there are bugs in accessibility does not mean that Apple doesn't care about accessibility or does not take it seriously, because if you extend that logic, then bugs anywhere must mean they don't care about any of their software. Voiceover is no different from any other aspect of Apple's products: it is mostly great, it has bugs, they fix the bugs, they update, more bugs come along, and the cycle continues. That's true of all software anywhere. Sent from my iPhone On Nov 10, 2013, at 10:01, Ricardo Walker rwalker...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, With respect, let me go through some of the things below. In regards to hanging up a call. Yes, I have notice that doing a 2 finger double tap doesn’t always hang up a call on the first try. Generally, the second try will do the trick. About phone numbers in a text, turn the rotor to links, flick down to the number, and double tap and hold. A dialog appears asking you if you want to call, text, or save the number to contacts. This is not a bug. If you don’t like the way its now done that’s one thing. But it isn’t broken. Web forms? Yes. This is definitely buggy in IOS 7. There is no excuse for that. But I will continue to say, I think some people on the list have very short memories. Remember all the bugs that were found in IOS 6 when it first launched? I’m sorry, bugs in software is just a fact of life at launch. There have been a couple minor updates. But we are still on a .0 release. Can we at least hold off until 7.1 comes out so we can see what’s what? And about the persons Nokia phone, last time I checked, it was running a dead OS, a non existent app store in which I bet the accessible apps were slim pickings indeed. I say this just to point out, if you want to take 3 or 4 bugs, and compare it to an operating system that no longer being supported, that’s fine. But, anyone can do that. JMO Ricardo Walker rica...@appletothecore.info Twitter:@apple2thecore www.appletothecore.info On Nov 10, 2013, at 9:50 AM, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, it is that I have been saying since IOs 6 came. Looks like every time apple write a new code, with new developers, and the accessibility problems every time are worse. They are not learning of the previous IOs experiences, they are not paying attention to it, or they want to become the accessibility in something that another company will care. With IOs 7, I am getting the same problems than you, and bunches of others. But the response that I found is that every IOs brings bugs. It is a very poor excuse, because with IOs 7, is when I have been taking more problems to access information with my apple devices. Apple wants that every year, every body update the IOs, saying that not more support for older versions of the IOs, but at the same time, we have to be suffering during the year, the bugs that every IOs brings, we come to the end of the year, and start again with another IOs. It is not fir. - Original Message - From: sen...@gmail.com To: ViPhone viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 7:40 AM Subject: When will Apple take this seriously? This is very frustrating. Hordes of emails have circulated with the many shortcomings of IOS7. Many bugss and shortcomings that have appeared in ver 7 that were
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
Pablo, I have thought you had some valid points, but if you really believe IOS is so bad, why did you buy a 5? This complaining is getting old. Go to Android. You have that right. Did not know what the thread was about or I would have deleted. reggie and Allegra On Nov 10, 2013, at 10:27 AM, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: If apple charge the same money than other business, I can agree what you say. But apple is not the cheaper or the standard price for their products. Of course, I feel that I have right of say that I am in disagreement when I pay a thousand dollars for a phone, and I have to be fighting with the accessibility, when it was working better in previous versions of IOs. Yes, I feel that I have right to be saying that I don't like it. - Original Message - From: Alex Hall mehg...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Cc: viphone viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 10:13 AM Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? In addition, do you really think iOS is perfect if you are not using VO? There are bugs in it and the new Mac OS release for sighted people as well, some very long-standing. Just because there are bugs in accessibility does not mean that Apple doesn't care about accessibility or does not take it seriously, because if you extend that logic, then bugs anywhere must mean they don't care about any of their software. Voiceover is no different from any other aspect of Apple's products: it is mostly great, it has bugs, they fix the bugs, they update, more bugs come along, and the cycle continues. That's true of all software anywhere. Sent from my iPhone On Nov 10, 2013, at 10:01, Ricardo Walker rwalker...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, With respect, let me go through some of the things below. In regards to hanging up a call. Yes, I have notice that doing a 2 finger double tap doesn’t always hang up a call on the first try. Generally, the second try will do the trick. About phone numbers in a text, turn the rotor to links, flick down to the number, and double tap and hold. A dialog appears asking you if you want to call, text, or save the number to contacts. This is not a bug. If you don’t like the way its now done that’s one thing. But it isn’t broken. Web forms? Yes. This is definitely buggy in IOS 7. There is no excuse for that. But I will continue to say, I think some people on the list have very short memories. Remember all the bugs that were found in IOS 6 when it first launched? I’m sorry, bugs in software is just a fact of life at launch. There have been a couple minor updates. But we are still on a .0 release. Can we at least hold off until 7.1 comes out so we can see what’s what? And about the persons Nokia phone, last time I checked, it was running a dead OS, a non existent app store in which I bet the accessible apps were slim pickings indeed. I say this just to point out, if you want to take 3 or 4 bugs, and compare it to an operating system that no longer being supported, that’s fine. But, anyone can do that. JMO Ricardo Walker rica...@appletothecore.info Twitter:@apple2thecore www.appletothecore.info On Nov 10, 2013, at 9:50 AM, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, it is that I have been saying since IOs 6 came. Looks like every time apple write a new code, with new developers, and the accessibility problems every time are worse. They are not learning of the previous IOs experiences, they are not paying attention to it, or they want to become the accessibility in something that another company will care. With IOs 7, I am getting the same problems than you, and bunches of others. But the response that I found is that every IOs brings bugs. It is a very poor excuse, because with IOs 7, is when I have been taking more problems to access information with my apple devices. Apple wants that every year, every body update the IOs, saying that not more support for older versions of the IOs, but at the same time, we have to be suffering during the year, the bugs that every IOs brings, we come to the end of the year, and start again with another IOs. It is not fir. - Original Message - From: sen...@gmail.com To: ViPhone viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 7:40 AM Subject: When will Apple take this seriously? This is very frustrating. Hordes of emails have circulated with the many shortcomings of IOS7. Many bugss and shortcomings that have appeared in ver 7 that were not in IOS6. It becomes very frustrating when even the basic phone functions are compromised. 1. Ending calls is a pain. Countless times I thought I had ended the call but it was active. This has lead to embarrassing situations and also a drain on my wallet due to large long distance call charges. 2. When I get phone numbers in a text message, I should be able to call or message or store
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
We get it, Apple introduced bugs they haven’t fixed yet. Welcome to every computer ever made. If you have problems, you can email accessibil...@apple.com and detail them, as well as go to www.apple.com/feedback and report bugs you find. As to quality control… Please tell me you’re joking. Do you have any idea what a high standard Apple has for hardware testing? For software, they offer betas of their upcoming operating systems for months, and release update after update to fix things that testers find. If you want to get in on that, pay the $100 per year to become an iOS developer, then you can install iOS betas and test them out so you can report bugs. On Nov 10, 2013, at 11:03 AM, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, nothing is perfect. But it should not fail with things that has been working well before. for example, if I buy a Rolex, it should not have problems with the seconds, or been behind every day around 12 minutes. This kind of problems are for machines that has a price of 5 cents, not 10 thousand dollars. If I buy a nice car, it is not perfect, but if this car is a porshe, it should not have problems that the versions of this car, didn't have. Where is the quality control on this products? Now, Apple is not paying people to see and catch the bugs before get out to the customers? Why not? A thousand dollars by phone is not enough? Why the sighted and blind people is getting with IOs 7 more bugs, and worse bugs than with the previous versions of IOs? In my opinion again, apple is more worry about get something to sale, instead get good things to sale. Things with the price of an iPhone. Why I am buying apple devices? because voice over is much better than talk back on android, and because iPhone is better than samgsum in many aspects. But it doesn't mean that I should be happy when apple create IOs doing mistakes that they didn't before, and breaking things that before were working fine. You know, Quality control. You, as every body, when you pay, you got the right to say, Hey, I don't like it, and I want it working well. You pay for that, so as customer you have the right to make complain about something that you are paying. More when they sales it with the advertisement of the better phone, or the better IOs, on the world and around the world, and of course, with the price, the higher prices on the world, and around the world. Daily improvement. It means that I will learn of my mistakes today, to be better every day. But with this last IOs 7, I don't feel that apple is learning of their mistakes. They are more concern creating an IOs, than stop, rift and learn with the previous experiences. - Original Message - From: Ricardo Walker rwalker...@gmail.com To: viphone viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 10:34 AM Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Hi, But you don’t have to buy it. That’s the thing. Just because you pay a high price for something doesn’t mean it will be perfect. For example, go buy a Samsung Galaxy 4, and turn on Talkback. This phone costs about the same as an iPhone 5S. I assure you this phone has bugs too. If it has been established that no public OS is bug free, why hold Apple to a standard that no one else has ever achieved? I’m not saying don’t be upset by bugs. I’m saying they are to be expected to a certain extent. For all the bugs, how many people actually return iPhones? Not many I’ll tell you that. I believe they have a return rate under 2%. Ricardo Walker rica...@appletothecore.info Twitter:@apple2thecore www.appletothecore.info On Nov 10, 2013, at 10:21 AM, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: Nope. I don't agree it. Apple sales their toys at a very high price. As I said before, and iPhone today is more money that the money that the most part of the people on the world makes in one year. What does that mean for me? If they are charging a very high price for their toys, they should offer good toys, and do not be hide behind the excuse that every IOs or every operated system, has bugs, it is a really poor excuse. Why it is a very poor excuse? Every year apple start saying that they have a new IOs, it is the better IOs, it is the more advance operated system in the galaxy, no body on the world, and around the world has a better operated system, and at the same time, they say that they will not provide more support to devices who doesn't have install IOs 7. So is mandatory has IOs 7 installed. Now, every year, apple create a new IOs, and every creation brings bugs, problems, and bunches of things that are real problems for sighted and blind people. We have more than one month talking about it in the list. Apple doesn't learn of the previous experiences? Apple is not paying attention to the mistakes that they did before? Apple is giving job to new developers
RE: When will Apple take this seriously?
Hello, Here is my summary of this entire thread: The original poster complained about 3 items and pointed out a fourth: 1. Hanging up phone calls is unreliable 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to contacts 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. Then Pablo jumped in with his well-known rant about how horrible Apple is in general because they make such expensive and terrible devices which don't work, where people are forced to upgrade to iOS 7 and where generally accessibility is terrible and where Pablo's rights are violated in a number of ways. As for Pablo's arguments, I have actually agreed with him in a very general way that Apple should give people the option to say if they wanted a new iOS to download automatically or not. At first I didn't see his point, but he argued this point well and I agree there should be such an option. However, this is in my view the only issue. Apple is not forcing anybody to upgrade to iOS 7. Yes, they are pushing the update and it takes up space on your phone, but you do not have to install it and I'll challenge anybody who says that iOS 7 magically installed on their phone without them doing anything or twice agreeing to the terms and conditions which simply does not happen. If Apple were to allow down the road that one could turn off the automatic downloading then nobody including Pablo could complain in any way because at that point if they upgrade it is entirely their choice. It's already their choice, but let's say somebody has an 8 Gb phone and they really need to free up that space so they install it, that is just a little big of pressure there even though you still decide to put up with iOS 7 in return for getting back 2 Gb of space on your phone. Now, as to the 4 items above: 1. Hanging up calls is unreliable I actually find the 2-finger double tap works better in iOS 7 but that is just my opinion. I think it's pretty safe to say though that it works at least as well and I have up to this point and it's now 2 months since iOS 7 was released, not seen a single post where somebody asked about or mentioned a problem with the 2-finger double tap to hang up. There is of course the other way to hang up a call which works 100% and that is to touch the End Cal lbutton which is really not hard to find as it's right there about the ome Key and to double tap it. As somebody else pointed out, it's not hard to check whether a call was hung up or is still connected. 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to contacts This works flawlessly for me and judging by what others wrote also for them. A simple double tap on a phone number asks me whether I want to call it, a double tap and hold brings up the options to call, add to contacts etc. I'd really like to see how this isn't working on Avnish's phone who I think was the one who posted that all of this didn't work. 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. This one I understand is an issue, I can't comment too much on it since I don't use Safari much to fill out web forms. I have done a few Google searches andwas able to type in a search term just find, the same on the Audible site. Anyhow, if it is buggy then I sure hope those who find this so horrible have written to Apple about it. To me this is like voting. If I talk to somebody about politics and they start a big rant about the government I usually ask first if they voted in the last election. More than once somebody said that they don't vote in which case I usually tell them that they might as well shut up then because if they don't participate in electing the government then they have no right to complain. I am not saying Avnish hasn't written to Apple to explain places where encounters problems, but I see a lot of this on the list and I wonder if everybody also takes the time to compose a constructive email to accessibil...@apple.com to make sure they know about the issues. 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. Well, what can I say, Ricardo already said it. Talks has been gone for some time and no Nokia phone with Talks even at its best can do what the iPhone can do or even get close to the level of accessibility iOs offers. It's of course easier to offer accessibility for a device which has only half the features of iOS. I remember trying to use Skype on my Windows Smartphone with MobileSpeak and it was a complete joke and waste of time. Apps were almost non-existent and I wore out the battery cover on my phone because I had to open it up so often to take the battery out when it crashed. Apple has done more for main stream accessibility in the last 4 years than all other companies combined in the last 25 years yet here people are complaining about the horrible accessibility and how buying an expensive phone apparently gives them the right to have perfect accessibility and everything else. Next thing I'm sure
RE: When will Apple take this seriously?
I agree with item 1. I also find often, since upgrading to OS 7.03, the 2 finger double tap doesn't properly hang up calls for me. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 3:13 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: When will Apple take this seriously? Hello, Here is my summary of this entire thread: The original poster complained about 3 items and pointed out a fourth: 1. Hanging up phone calls is unreliable 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to contacts 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. Then Pablo jumped in with his well-known rant about how horrible Apple is in general because they make such expensive and terrible devices which don't work, where people are forced to upgrade to iOS 7 and where generally accessibility is terrible and where Pablo's rights are violated in a number of ways. As for Pablo's arguments, I have actually agreed with him in a very general way that Apple should give people the option to say if they wanted a new iOS to download automatically or not. At first I didn't see his point, but he argued this point well and I agree there should be such an option. However, this is in my view the only issue. Apple is not forcing anybody to upgrade to iOS 7. Yes, they are pushing the update and it takes up space on your phone, but you do not have to install it and I'll challenge anybody who says that iOS 7 magically installed on their phone without them doing anything or twice agreeing to the terms and conditions which simply does not happen. If Apple were to allow down the road that one could turn off the automatic downloading then nobody including Pablo could complain in any way because at that point if they upgrade it is entirely their choice. It's already their choice, but let's say somebody has an 8 Gb phone and they really need to free up that space so they install it, that is just a little big of pressure there even though you still decide to put up with iOS 7 in return for getting back 2 Gb of space on your phone. Now, as to the 4 items above: 1. Hanging up calls is unreliable I actually find the 2-finger double tap works better in iOS 7 but that is just my opinion. I think it's pretty safe to say though that it works at least as well and I have up to this point and it's now 2 months since iOS 7 was released, not seen a single post where somebody asked about or mentioned a problem with the 2-finger double tap to hang up. There is of course the other way to hang up a call which works 100% and that is to touch the End Cal lbutton which is really not hard to find as it's right there about the ome Key and to double tap it. As somebody else pointed out, it's not hard to check whether a call was hung up or is still connected. 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to contacts This works flawlessly for me and judging by what others wrote also for them. A simple double tap on a phone number asks me whether I want to call it, a double tap and hold brings up the options to call, add to contacts etc. I'd really like to see how this isn't working on Avnish's phone who I think was the one who posted that all of this didn't work. 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. This one I understand is an issue, I can't comment too much on it since I don't use Safari much to fill out web forms. I have done a few Google searches andwas able to type in a search term just find, the same on the Audible site. Anyhow, if it is buggy then I sure hope those who find this so horrible have written to Apple about it. To me this is like voting. If I talk to somebody about politics and they start a big rant about the government I usually ask first if they voted in the last election. More than once somebody said that they don't vote in which case I usually tell them that they might as well shut up then because if they don't participate in electing the government then they have no right to complain. I am not saying Avnish hasn't written to Apple to explain places where encounters problems, but I see a lot of this on the list and I wonder if everybody also takes the time to compose a constructive email to accessibil...@apple.com to make sure they know about the issues. 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. Well, what can I say, Ricardo already said it. Talks has been gone for some time and no Nokia phone with Talks even at its best can do what the iPhone can do or even get close to the level of accessibility iOs offers. It's of course easier to offer accessibility for a device which has only half the features of iOS. I remember trying to use Skype on my Windows Smartphone with MobileSpeak and it was a complete joke and waste of time. Apps were almost non-existent and I wore out the battery cover on my phone because I had to open it up so often
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
Thank you for that summary. I just started reading this thread. The only point I can confirm is item 3. VO has a difficult time tracking in Safari when filling out complex forms. To be fair, many of the forms VO struggles with are also extremely difficult on the computer. They have quite a bit to do with newer web technologies. Other places where VO struggles appear to not move the visual page on the display as one flicks through the form using right flicks. When the button or edit box is not on the visual screen, it will not activate with a double or even, triple tap. However, there is a work-around that works for most websites I have tried. Physically find the edit field and hold your finger on it. This locks it on the visual display. Split-tap with another finger and the edit box is locked in with the keyboard. Because of rapid screen refreshes, it may be impossible to then flick to the next edit field. In this case, locate the done button above the o and p letters on the keyboard and double-tap it. This releases the edit field and one can now locate the next edit field. Follow the same procedure. When finished with the form, locate the continue, submit, or otherly worded button and split-tap it. again, as I previously stated, because of the newer web technologies, many of these complex new web technologies are also complicated, if not impossible, for computer-based screen readers. In Apple's favour, I have been able to access some forms on my iPhone using the above procedure, which people on certain lists have stated that Jaws cannot access on Windows and IE 10. As for Talks and Nokia, the person can always go to the newest Windows Mobile phone and get the latest Mobile Speak for it. This is a specifically written app with six features in it. Nothing else can be accessed on the phone, so it will be very similar to the old Nokia with Talks. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 11 Nov 2013, at 10:13, Sieghard Weitzel siegh...@live.ca wrote: Hello, Here is my summary of this entire thread: The original poster complained about 3 items and pointed out a fourth: 1. Hanging up phone calls is unreliable 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to contacts 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. Then Pablo jumped in with his well-known rant about how horrible Apple is in general because they make such expensive and terrible devices which don't work, where people are forced to upgrade to iOS 7 and where generally accessibility is terrible and where Pablo's rights are violated in a number of ways. As for Pablo's arguments, I have actually agreed with him in a very general way that Apple should give people the option to say if they wanted a new iOS to download automatically or not. At first I didn't see his point, but he argued this point well and I agree there should be such an option. However, this is in my view the only issue. Apple is not forcing anybody to upgrade to iOS 7. Yes, they are pushing the update and it takes up space on your phone, but you do not have to install it and I'll challenge anybody who says that iOS 7 magically installed on their phone without them doing anything or twice agreeing to the terms and conditions which simply does not happen. If Apple were to allow down the road that one could turn off the automatic downloading then nobody including Pablo could complain in any way because at that point if they upgrade it is entirely their choice. It's already their choice, but let's say somebody has an 8 Gb phone and they really need to free up that space so they install it, that is just a little big of pressure there even though you still decide to put up with iOS 7 in return for getting back 2 Gb of space on your phone. Now, as to the 4 items above: 1. Hanging up calls is unreliable I actually find the 2-finger double tap works better in iOS 7 but that is just my opinion. I think it's pretty safe to say though that it works at least as well and I have up to this point and it's now 2 months since iOS 7 was released, not seen a single post where somebody asked about or mentioned a problem with the 2-finger double tap to hang up. There is of course the other way to hang up a call which works 100% and that is to touch the End Cal lbutton which is really not hard to find as it's right there about the ome Key and to double tap it. As somebody else pointed out, it's not hard to check whether a call was hung up or is still connected. 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to contacts This works flawlessly for me and judging by what others wrote also for them. A simple double tap on a phone number asks me whether I want to call it, a double tap and hold brings up the options to call, add to contacts etc. I'd
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
Sieghard, what are you talking about? So for you is not fir that I complain when I feel that somebody is abusing when they decrees the quality of a product? For example, in IOs 5, the typing emails or typing text messages, wasn't a problem, in IOs 6 either, but now in IOs 7 is very difficult. If not every body is getting the same problem, it doesn't mean that is not enough people getting the problem. I have seen this kind of complain in the list, several times. It was happening in the previous versions of IOs? No, it didn't. Now VO says after the screen is locked, Screen lockedand seconds or minutes later, VO repeats the message. It happened before? No, it didn't. When we receive a call, is easy to find the end button? is easy to finish the phone call? No, it is not, is not one people getting this problem, is a lot of people saying the same thing. It happened before? No, it didn't. Field a text box in a web site, is difficult, or some times impossible. If you don't do it, it doesn't means that it is not a bug. It means that you don't field text fields on web sites, it is all. It happened before? No, it didn't. Now when we are reading the list of emails, or what ever list of content, voice over jumps every where, and we have to cross the whole list of content again to find where we were before VO jump out. it happened before? No, it didn't. Now, if we are playing a song, or audio book, or what ever kind of media, and we press the power button, VO says the track position. Before VO said the time. Now VO says the track position. It happened before? No, it didn't. I have taken the situation when VO stop talking, my phone is in silence for seconds, or minutes. Some times I have to turn off my phone, guessing pressing the power button for 10 seconds, and making a double tab on the screen, or just holding the power button for more than 10 seconds. What is happening? No body knows, but I am looking emails of people who is getting pretty similar problems. it happened before? No, it didn't! How many, no, It didn't, you want Sieghard? . I understand that VO included new things in IOs 7, but why they have to break things that were working well before? In my opinion, apple didn't care every detail in this last IOs. Now, I am talking about the problems with VO, and are so much more problems that are not in this email. But add to this list the problems that people who is not voice over user is getting? I am not saying that apple is not a good product. It is the better product right now. But they are not taking care of details, as they have done before. While Sangsum is improving and doing better phones every day, apple is not doing a good effort in this issue. So I am not talking about hardware, I am talking about IOs developers. In the last 2 versions of IOs, they included new things, but they broke things that were working well before. One more thing, today we are in November 10, 2013. In one more year, you will see that we will be talking about new bugs, in the new IOs, and the bugs and problems that we are getting now, will not be fixed all of them when the new Ios comes, even though we will have to start, to restart again, with new bugs, and never we will be happy, because every year, they have a new IOs, and we have to restart the hard process of report bugs, bugs that some will be fix, but other never will be fix. So Sieghard. In my opinion again. Apple makes great phones, but I can not say the same thing of the last IOs that I have seen. Remember Sieghard. I am very interested in a iPhone or an iPad working well. I am the owner of those devices. The difference is that I want that apple makes a better effort developing operated system. Our pressure to apple will be good for us, and for apple also. When you make pressure on somebody, you make that person stronger. When you make pressure on apple to fix these silly things that before didn't work bad, but now are not working well, it will make apple stronger. not Sangsum, not Sony, not Panasonic. Apple needs to do a best effort with this issue. It is for apple, more than for us. - Original Message - From: Sieghard Weitzel siegh...@live.ca To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 4:13 PM Subject: RE: When will Apple take this seriously? Hello, Here is my summary of this entire thread: The original poster complained about 3 items and pointed out a fourth: 1. Hanging up phone calls is unreliable 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to contacts 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. Then Pablo jumped in with his well-known rant about how horrible Apple is in general because they make such expensive and terrible devices which don't work, where people are forced to upgrade to iOS 7 and where generally accessibility is terrible and where Pablo's rights are violated in a number
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
Ok, go to American Printing House for the Blind, www.aph.org and check out their braille android phone. I believe the cost is around $4000. It is a phone specifically developed for the blind. It's specific functions work well for the blind. You have your wish answered. Enjoy your $4000 Android phone. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 11 Nov 2013, at 1:40, sen...@gmail.com wrote: This is very frustrating. Hordes of emails have circulated with the many shortcomings of IOS7. Many bugss and shortcomings that have appeared in ver 7 that were not in IOS6. It becomes very frustrating when even the basic phone functions are compromised. 1. Ending calls is a pain. Countless times I thought I had ended the call but it was active. This has lead to embarrassing situations and also a drain on my wallet due to large long distance call charges. 2. When I get phone numbers in a text message, I should be able to call or message or store the number with a tap. No! I could do it with my 6 year old Nokia better. 3. Entering data in a web form has become a nightmare. With my previous phones running Talks I could do much better. I pay 10 times to get a iphone and guess what? I can do less with it! Very frustrating. This list could go on and on. . . . New models will launch, new IOS versions will roll out. . . But the shortcomings and bugs will stick with us. Technology for the sake of technology. But no technology for the visually challenged. Wish someone would charge more but make a phone that works. With IOS7 AND IPHONE all one can do is pull ones hair out, welcome to a bald world populated with buggy iphones! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
When you say: As for Talks and Nokia, the person can always go to the newest Windows Mobile phone and get the latest Mobile Speak for it. This is a specifically written app with six features in it. Nothing else can be accessed on the phone, so it will be very similar to the old Nokia with Talks. I assume you're talking about the latest Windows Phone 8 smart phone and Mobile Accessibility for Windows Phone 8. Windows Windows Mobile and Mobile Speak were different products. Also, as you say Mobile Accessibility for Windows Phone 8 only gives you a suite of accessible apps. this is very different from Talks, which was a 3rd party screen reader giving you access to the operating system and numerous apps on your smart phone. I agree, sometimes Safari and VoiceOver is going to give you the best access to a web site, but I've also had trouble with this combination when Chrome or Orca and Firefox or some other combination gave me better results. On 11/10/2013 05:36 PM, David Chittenden wrote: Thank you for that summary. I just started reading this thread. The only point I can confirm is item 3. VO has a difficult time tracking in Safari when filling out complex forms. To be fair, many of the forms VO struggles with are also extremely difficult on the computer. They have quite a bit to do with newer web technologies. Other places where VO struggles appear to not move the visual page on the display as one flicks through the form using right flicks. When the button or edit box is not on the visual screen, it will not activate with a double or even, triple tap. However, there is a work-around that works for most websites I have tried. Physically find the edit field and hold your finger on it. This locks it on the visual display. Split-tap with another finger and the edit box is locked in with the keyboard. Because of rapid screen refreshes, it may be impossible to then flick to the next edit field. In this case, locate the done button above the o and p letters on the keyboard and double-tap it. This releases the edit field and one can now locate the next edit field. Follow the same procedure. When finished with the form, locate the continue, submit, or otherly worded button and split-tap it. again, as I previously stated, because of the newer web technologies, many of these complex new web technologies are also complicated, if not impossible, for computer-based screen readers. In Apple's favour, I have been able to access some forms on my iPhone using the above procedure, which people on certain lists have stated that Jaws cannot access on Windows and IE 10. As for Talks and Nokia, the person can always go to the newest Windows Mobile phone and get the latest Mobile Speak for it. This is a specifically written app with six features in it. Nothing else can be accessed on the phone, so it will be very similar to the old Nokia with Talks. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 11 Nov 2013, at 10:13, Sieghard Weitzel siegh...@live.ca wrote: Hello, Here is my summary of this entire thread: The original poster complained about 3 items and pointed out a fourth: 1. Hanging up phone calls is unreliable 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to contacts 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. Then Pablo jumped in with his well-known rant about how horrible Apple is in general because they make such expensive and terrible devices which don't work, where people are forced to upgrade to iOS 7 and where generally accessibility is terrible and where Pablo's rights are violated in a number of ways. As for Pablo's arguments, I have actually agreed with him in a very general way that Apple should give people the option to say if they wanted a new iOS to download automatically or not. At first I didn't see his point, but he argued this point well and I agree there should be such an option. However, this is in my view the only issue. Apple is not forcing anybody to upgrade to iOS 7. Yes, they are pushing the update and it takes up space on your phone, but you do not have to install it and I'll challenge anybody who says that iOS 7 magically installed on their phone without them doing anything or twice agreeing to the terms and conditions which simply does not happen. If Apple were to allow down the road that one could turn off the automatic downloading then nobody including Pablo could complain in any way because at that point if they upgrade it is entirely their choice. It's already their choice, but let's say somebody has an 8 Gb phone and they really need to free up that space so they install it, that is just a little big of pressure there even though you still decide to put up with iOS 7 in return for getting back 2 Gb of space on your phone. Now, as to the 4 items above: 1. Hanging up calls is unreliable I actually
RE: When will Apple take this seriously?
Remember that there is yet another way to end a call. Simply hold the phone to your ear and press on the button on the top of the phone (the one you all use to lock the phone). That one works every time! Sheesh. Thanks Sieghard for writing all of the things I would have written if you had not written them. lol DJ -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 4:13 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: When will Apple take this seriously? Hello, Here is my summary of this entire thread: The original poster complained about 3 items and pointed out a fourth: 1. Hanging up phone calls is unreliable 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to contacts 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. Then Pablo jumped in with his well-known rant about how horrible Apple is in general because they make such expensive and terrible devices which don't work, where people are forced to upgrade to iOS 7 and where generally accessibility is terrible and where Pablo's rights are violated in a number of ways. As for Pablo's arguments, I have actually agreed with him in a very general way that Apple should give people the option to say if they wanted a new iOS to download automatically or not. At first I didn't see his point, but he argued this point well and I agree there should be such an option. However, this is in my view the only issue. Apple is not forcing anybody to upgrade to iOS 7. Yes, they are pushing the update and it takes up space on your phone, but you do not have to install it and I'll challenge anybody who says that iOS 7 magically installed on their phone without them doing anything or twice agreeing to the terms and conditions which simply does not happen. If Apple were to allow down the road that one could turn off the automatic downloading then nobody including Pablo could complain in any way because at that point if they upgrade it is entirely their choice. It's already their choice, but let's say somebody has an 8 Gb phone and they really need to free up that space so they install it, that is just a little big of pressure there even though you still decide to put up with iOS 7 in return for getting back 2 Gb of space on your phone. Now, as to the 4 items above: 1. Hanging up calls is unreliable I actually find the 2-finger double tap works better in iOS 7 but that is just my opinion. I think it's pretty safe to say though that it works at least as well and I have up to this point and it's now 2 months since iOS 7 was released, not seen a single post where somebody asked about or mentioned a problem with the 2-finger double tap to hang up. There is of course the other way to hang up a call which works 100% and that is to touch the End Cal lbutton which is really not hard to find as it's right there about the ome Key and to double tap it. As somebody else pointed out, it's not hard to check whether a call was hung up or is still connected. 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to contacts This works flawlessly for me and judging by what others wrote also for them. A simple double tap on a phone number asks me whether I want to call it, a double tap and hold brings up the options to call, add to contacts etc. I'd really like to see how this isn't working on Avnish's phone who I think was the one who posted that all of this didn't work. 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. This one I understand is an issue, I can't comment too much on it since I don't use Safari much to fill out web forms. I have done a few Google searches andwas able to type in a search term just find, the same on the Audible site. Anyhow, if it is buggy then I sure hope those who find this so horrible have written to Apple about it. To me this is like voting. If I talk to somebody about politics and they start a big rant about the government I usually ask first if they voted in the last election. More than once somebody said that they don't vote in which case I usually tell them that they might as well shut up then because if they don't participate in electing the government then they have no right to complain. I am not saying Avnish hasn't written to Apple to explain places where encounters problems, but I see a lot of this on the list and I wonder if everybody also takes the time to compose a constructive email to accessibil...@apple.com to make sure they know about the issues. 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. Well, what can I say, Ricardo already said it. Talks has been gone for some time and no Nokia phone with Talks even at its best can do what the iPhone can do or even get close to the level of accessibility iOs offers. It's of course easier to offer accessibility for a device which has only half the features of iOS. I remember trying to use Skype on my
RE: When will Apple take this seriously?
Or one can wait a while and IOS 7 will get better. IOS 6 started with bugs and ended up butterflies because each update included fixes and improvements. I'll bet that was true of the $4,000 Android phone as well. After all it depends on the Android operating system which is relatively new to accessibility and shows it. I can easily recall picking up the phone, dialing the operator, and telling her the long distance number I wanted to reach and waiting while she connected me. We tended to hold our analog watches where we could see them because the long distance charges per minute could quickly mount into serious money. For me, I think IOS 7 is really greatsmile! Regards, Wayne -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chittenden Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 5:49 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Ok, go to American Printing House for the Blind, www.aph.org and check out their braille android phone. I believe the cost is around $4000. It is a phone specifically developed for the blind. It's specific functions work well for the blind. You have your wish answered. Enjoy your $4000 Android phone. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 11 Nov 2013, at 1:40, sen...@gmail.com wrote: This is very frustrating. Hordes of emails have circulated with the many shortcomings of IOS7. Many bugss and shortcomings that have appeared in ver 7 that were not in IOS6. It becomes very frustrating when even the basic phone functions are compromised. 1. Ending calls is a pain. Countless times I thought I had ended the call but it was active. This has lead to embarrassing situations and also a drain on my wallet due to large long distance call charges. 2. When I get phone numbers in a text message, I should be able to call or message or store the number with a tap. No! I could do it with my 6 year old Nokia better. 3. Entering data in a web form has become a nightmare. With my previous phones running Talks I could do much better. I pay 10 times to get a iphone and guess what? I can do less with it! Very frustrating. This list could go on and on. . . . New models will launch, new IOS versions will roll out. . . But the shortcomings and bugs will stick with us. Technology for the sake of technology. But no technology for the visually challenged. Wish someone would charge more but make a phone that works. With IOS7 AND IPHONE all one can do is pull ones hair out, welcome to a bald world populated with buggy iphones! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr
RE: When will Apple take this seriously?
Which you cannot upgrade with android, thus the base of the operating system will continue falling further and further behind, until one day guess what it will no longer work. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chittenden Sent: November 10, 2013 18:49 To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Ok, go to American Printing House for the Blind, www.aph.org and check out their braille android phone. I believe the cost is around $4000. It is a phone specifically developed for the blind. It's specific functions work well for the blind. You have your wish answered. Enjoy your $4000 Android phone. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 11 Nov 2013, at 1:40, sen...@gmail.com wrote: This is very frustrating. Hordes of emails have circulated with the many shortcomings of IOS7. Many bugss and shortcomings that have appeared in ver 7 that were not in IOS6. It becomes very frustrating when even the basic phone functions are compromised. 1. Ending calls is a pain. Countless times I thought I had ended the call but it was active. This has lead to embarrassing situations and also a drain on my wallet due to large long distance call charges. 2. When I get phone numbers in a text message, I should be able to call or message or store the number with a tap. No! I could do it with my 6 year old Nokia better. 3. Entering data in a web form has become a nightmare. With my previous phones running Talks I could do much better. I pay 10 times to get a iphone and guess what? I can do less with it! Very frustrating. This list could go on and on. . . . New models will launch, new IOS versions will roll out. . . But the shortcomings and bugs will stick with us. Technology for the sake of technology. But no technology for the visually challenged. Wish someone would charge more but make a phone that works. With IOS7 AND IPHONE all one can do is pull ones hair out, welcome to a bald world populated with buggy iphones! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
well then if you don't like it just sell it and move on! Simple as that. - Original Message - From: Wayne gmail ewaynebrum...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 7:22 PM Subject: RE: When will Apple take this seriously? Or one can wait a while and IOS 7 will get better. IOS 6 started with bugs and ended up butterflies because each update included fixes and improvements. I'll bet that was true of the $4,000 Android phone as well. After all it depends on the Android operating system which is relatively new to accessibility and shows it. I can easily recall picking up the phone, dialing the operator, and telling her the long distance number I wanted to reach and waiting while she connected me. We tended to hold our analog watches where we could see them because the long distance charges per minute could quickly mount into serious money. For me, I think IOS 7 is really greatsmile! Regards, Wayne -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chittenden Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 5:49 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Ok, go to American Printing House for the Blind, www.aph.org and check out their braille android phone. I believe the cost is around $4000. It is a phone specifically developed for the blind. It's specific functions work well for the blind. You have your wish answered. Enjoy your $4000 Android phone. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 11 Nov 2013, at 1:40, sen...@gmail.com wrote: This is very frustrating. Hordes of emails have circulated with the many shortcomings of IOS7. Many bugss and shortcomings that have appeared in ver 7 that were not in IOS6. It becomes very frustrating when even the basic phone functions are compromised. 1. Ending calls is a pain. Countless times I thought I had ended the call but it was active. This has lead to embarrassing situations and also a drain on my wallet due to large long distance call charges. 2. When I get phone numbers in a text message, I should be able to call or message or store the number with a tap. No! I could do it with my 6 year old Nokia better. 3. Entering data in a web form has become a nightmare. With my previous phones running Talks I could do much better. I pay 10 times to get a iphone and guess what? I can do less with it! Very frustrating. This list could go on and on. . . . New models will launch, new IOS versions will roll out. . . But the shortcomings and bugs will stick with us. Technology for the sake of technology. But no technology for the visually challenged. Wish someone would charge more but make a phone that works. With IOS7 AND IPHONE all one can do is pull ones hair out, welcome to a bald world populated with buggy iphones! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
I agree Sieghard, hanging up a call with 2 finger doubletap works a lot better. Perhaps he needs to do a full restore as suggested many times on here if you come across a really buggy phone. I'm running ios7.03 and I noticed the bugs are pretty gone at this point, even the one I wrote apple about with the speaker phone issue. Like I mentioned earlier on this thread he should just cell or anyone unhappy with apple sell their devices and move on, simple as that. - Original Message - From: DJ grou...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 7:19 PM Subject: RE: When will Apple take this seriously? Remember that there is yet another way to end a call. Simply hold the phone to your ear and press on the button on the top of the phone (the one you all use to lock the phone). That one works every time! Sheesh. Thanks Sieghard for writing all of the things I would have written if you had not written them. lol DJ -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 4:13 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: When will Apple take this seriously? Hello, Here is my summary of this entire thread: The original poster complained about 3 items and pointed out a fourth: 1. Hanging up phone calls is unreliable 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to contacts 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. Then Pablo jumped in with his well-known rant about how horrible Apple is in general because they make such expensive and terrible devices which don't work, where people are forced to upgrade to iOS 7 and where generally accessibility is terrible and where Pablo's rights are violated in a number of ways. As for Pablo's arguments, I have actually agreed with him in a very general way that Apple should give people the option to say if they wanted a new iOS to download automatically or not. At first I didn't see his point, but he argued this point well and I agree there should be such an option. However, this is in my view the only issue. Apple is not forcing anybody to upgrade to iOS 7. Yes, they are pushing the update and it takes up space on your phone, but you do not have to install it and I'll challenge anybody who says that iOS 7 magically installed on their phone without them doing anything or twice agreeing to the terms and conditions which simply does not happen. If Apple were to allow down the road that one could turn off the automatic downloading then nobody including Pablo could complain in any way because at that point if they upgrade it is entirely their choice. It's already their choice, but let's say somebody has an 8 Gb phone and they really need to free up that space so they install it, that is just a little big of pressure there even though you still decide to put up with iOS 7 in return for getting back 2 Gb of space on your phone. Now, as to the 4 items above: 1. Hanging up calls is unreliable I actually find the 2-finger double tap works better in iOS 7 but that is just my opinion. I think it's pretty safe to say though that it works at least as well and I have up to this point and it's now 2 months since iOS 7 was released, not seen a single post where somebody asked about or mentioned a problem with the 2-finger double tap to hang up. There is of course the other way to hang up a call which works 100% and that is to touch the End Cal lbutton which is really not hard to find as it's right there about the ome Key and to double tap it. As somebody else pointed out, it's not hard to check whether a call was hung up or is still connected. 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to contacts This works flawlessly for me and judging by what others wrote also for them. A simple double tap on a phone number asks me whether I want to call it, a double tap and hold brings up the options to call, add to contacts etc. I'd really like to see how this isn't working on Avnish's phone who I think was the one who posted that all of this didn't work. 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. This one I understand is an issue, I can't comment too much on it since I don't use Safari much to fill out web forms. I have done a few Google searches andwas able to type in a search term just find, the same on the Audible site. Anyhow, if it is buggy then I sure hope those who find this so horrible have written to Apple about it. To me this is like voting. If I talk to somebody about politics and they start a big rant about the government I usually ask first if they voted in the last election. More than once somebody said that they don't vote in which case I usually tell them that they might as well shut up then because if they don't participate in electing the government then they have no right
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
You can't possibly know what the future holds for the upgradability of this device. Besides, I'm not even sure what falling farther behind means in this case. Falling behind what? BTW, I assume we're talking about the Braille Plus 18, which is more like a note taker with a cellular option than a smart phone. It also costs $3600 US and not $4000. On 11/10/2013 06:33 PM, Jesus Garcia wrote: Which you cannot upgrade with android, thus the base of the operating system will continue falling further and further behind, until one day guess what it will no longer work. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chittenden Sent: November 10, 2013 18:49 To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Ok, go to American Printing House for the Blind, www.aph.org and check out their braille android phone. I believe the cost is around $4000. It is a phone specifically developed for the blind. It's specific functions work well for the blind. You have your wish answered. Enjoy your $4000 Android phone. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 11 Nov 2013, at 1:40, sen...@gmail.com wrote: This is very frustrating. Hordes of emails have circulated with the many shortcomings of IOS7. Many bugss and shortcomings that have appeared in ver 7 that were not in IOS6. It becomes very frustrating when even the basic phone functions are compromised. 1. Ending calls is a pain. Countless times I thought I had ended the call but it was active. This has lead to embarrassing situations and also a drain on my wallet due to large long distance call charges. 2. When I get phone numbers in a text message, I should be able to call or message or store the number with a tap. No! I could do it with my 6 year old Nokia better. 3. Entering data in a web form has become a nightmare. With my previous phones running Talks I could do much better. I pay 10 times to get a iphone and guess what? I can do less with it! Very frustrating. This list could go on and on. . . . New models will launch, new IOS versions will roll out. . . But the shortcomings and bugs will stick with us. Technology for the sake of technology. But no technology for the visually challenged. Wish someone would charge more but make a phone that works. With IOS7 AND IPHONE all one can do is pull ones hair out, welcome to a bald world populated with buggy iphones! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- Christopher (CJ) chaltain at Gmail -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
Pablo, I can honestly say that I am not experiencing any of the bugs you outlined in your original post. That's not to say I'm not experiencing bugs at all, but none of the bugs you mentioned are being experienced by me, and I am using iOS 7.03 on an iPhone 4S. I am wondering something though, as I noticed this a while back when someone posted the resolution for the lag that 4S users were experiencing. Did you reset your iPhone settings back to their original defaults? I don't mean erasing all your data, but just resetting your iPhone back to it's factory defaults, as this seem to fix the majority of the bugs I was facing with my handset. So, the more important question is if you have actually done this to see if it resolved your problem or not. If you did, you may want to visit an Apple Store to see what the deal is with your iPhone because, as I said, I, and it would seem, a great number of your peers are not experiencing these bugs, so I'm thinking your issues are handset specific. If you did not perform the reset, then it would seem that you are simply talking out of your ass, and have not tried any of the resolutions that have been posted to the list thus far. This kind of harkens back to what Sieghard said about voting. If you don't vote, then you have nothing to complain about. Anyway, I would attempt the phone reset and see what happens. Victor Gouveia Vice-President Training Coordinator VIP Tech Tel: 1-888-737-1115 Fax: 1-888-737-1116 Home: victor.gouv...@rogers.com Work: viptrain...@rogers.com Limiting Disabilities with Limitless Possibilities -Original Message- From: Pablo Morales Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 6:41 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Sieghard, what are you talking about? So for you is not fir that I complain when I feel that somebody is abusing when they decrees the quality of a product? For example, in IOs 5, the typing emails or typing text messages, wasn't a problem, in IOs 6 either, but now in IOs 7 is very difficult. If not every body is getting the same problem, it doesn't mean that is not enough people getting the problem. I have seen this kind of complain in the list, several times. It was happening in the previous versions of IOs? No, it didn't. Now VO says after the screen is locked, Screen lockedand seconds or minutes later, VO repeats the message. It happened before? No, it didn't. When we receive a call, is easy to find the end button? is easy to finish the phone call? No, it is not, is not one people getting this problem, is a lot of people saying the same thing. It happened before? No, it didn't. Field a text box in a web site, is difficult, or some times impossible. If you don't do it, it doesn't means that it is not a bug. It means that you don't field text fields on web sites, it is all. It happened before? No, it didn't. Now when we are reading the list of emails, or what ever list of content, voice over jumps every where, and we have to cross the whole list of content again to find where we were before VO jump out. it happened before? No, it didn't. Now, if we are playing a song, or audio book, or what ever kind of media, and we press the power button, VO says the track position. Before VO said the time. Now VO says the track position. It happened before? No, it didn't. I have taken the situation when VO stop talking, my phone is in silence for seconds, or minutes. Some times I have to turn off my phone, guessing pressing the power button for 10 seconds, and making a double tab on the screen, or just holding the power button for more than 10 seconds. What is happening? No body knows, but I am looking emails of people who is getting pretty similar problems. it happened before? No, it didn't! How many, no, It didn't, you want Sieghard? . I understand that VO included new things in IOs 7, but why they have to break things that were working well before? In my opinion, apple didn't care every detail in this last IOs. Now, I am talking about the problems with VO, and are so much more problems that are not in this email. But add to this list the problems that people who is not voice over user is getting? I am not saying that apple is not a good product. It is the better product right now. But they are not taking care of details, as they have done before. While Sangsum is improving and doing better phones every day, apple is not doing a good effort in this issue. So I am not talking about hardware, I am talking about IOs developers. In the last 2 versions of IOs, they included new things, but they broke things that were working well before. One more thing, today we are in November 10, 2013. In one more year, you will see that we will be talking about new bugs, in the new IOs, and the bugs and problems that we are getting now, will not be fixed all of them when the new Ios comes, even though we will have to start, to restart again, with new bugs, and never we
RE: When will Apple take this seriously?
When I find myself having trouble with using the double tap to end a call I go to the VO practice app. After a few minutes work the double tap works a lot better. Thanks Apple for helping me help myself! I agree on the issue of the Evil Apple rants. If I worked for Microsoft I'd be smiling because now someone else gets to share the flames for having made things better but not perfect. Everyone has the right to whine and I exercise my rights just like everyone elsesmile. However, there is no inalienable right to be listened to or taken seriously if we complain to the wrong audience. Please tell Apple and Tap Tap See if you don't like them and don't buy their products! It isn't my business whether or not you decide to purchase a particular product unless that reason is due to the fact that a blind person cannot use it. If you warn me off or tell me workarounds, I am grateful but just griping is way too much information. It isn't even advocacy if one just complains without providing a strategy to make things better. Doing that on this list would probably quickly and correctly be judged an off topic discussion. Anyone want to host a Don Quixote with a white cane list? This list has made the IPhone much more of an asset for me and it is a great place for a lot of very nice people to share good information. Unfortunately it seems to take an ever larger chunk of time to sort out the signal from the noise even with techniques of grouping messages and deleting them. With sincerest regards to all sides of all debates, Wayne -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 3:13 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: When will Apple take this seriously? Hello, Here is my summary of this entire thread: The original poster complained about 3 items and pointed out a fourth: 1. Hanging up phone calls is unreliable 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to contacts 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. Then Pablo jumped in with his well-known rant about how horrible Apple is in general because they make such expensive and terrible devices which don't work, where people are forced to upgrade to iOS 7 and where generally accessibility is terrible and where Pablo's rights are violated in a number of ways. As for Pablo's arguments, I have actually agreed with him in a very general way that Apple should give people the option to say if they wanted a new iOS to download automatically or not. At first I didn't see his point, but he argued this point well and I agree there should be such an option. However, this is in my view the only issue. Apple is not forcing anybody to upgrade to iOS 7. Yes, they are pushing the update and it takes up space on your phone, but you do not have to install it and I'll challenge anybody who says that iOS 7 magically installed on their phone without them doing anything or twice agreeing to the terms and conditions which simply does not happen. If Apple were to allow down the road that one could turn off the automatic downloading then nobody including Pablo could complain in any way because at that point if they upgrade it is entirely their choice. It's already their choice, but let's say somebody has an 8 Gb phone and they really need to free up that space so they install it, that is just a little big of pressure there even though you still decide to put up with iOS 7 in return for getting back 2 Gb of space on your phone. Now, as to the 4 items above: 1. Hanging up calls is unreliable I actually find the 2-finger double tap works better in iOS 7 but that is just my opinion. I think it's pretty safe to say though that it works at least as well and I have up to this point and it's now 2 months since iOS 7 was released, not seen a single post where somebody asked about or mentioned a problem with the 2-finger double tap to hang up. There is of course the other way to hang up a call which works 100% and that is to touch the End Cal lbutton which is really not hard to find as it's right there about the ome Key and to double tap it. As somebody else pointed out, it's not hard to check whether a call was hung up or is still connected. 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to contacts This works flawlessly for me and judging by what others wrote also for them. A simple double tap on a phone number asks me whether I want to call it, a double tap and hold brings up the options to call, add to contacts etc. I'd really like to see how this isn't working on Avnish's phone who I think was the one who posted that all of this didn't work. 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. This one I understand is an issue, I can't comment too much on it since I don't use Safari much to fill out web forms. I have done a few Google searches andwas
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
and doing better phones every day, apple is not doing a good effort in this issue. So I am not talking about hardware, I am talking about IOs developers. In the last 2 versions of IOs, they included new things, but they broke things that were working well before. One more thing, today we are in November 10, 2013. In one more year, you will see that we will be talking about new bugs, in the new IOs, and the bugs and problems that we are getting now, will not be fixed all of them when the new Ios comes, even though we will have to start, to restart again, with new bugs, and never we will be happy, because every year, they have a new IOs, and we have to restart the hard process of report bugs, bugs that some will be fix, but other never will be fix. So Sieghard. In my opinion again. Apple makes great phones, but I can not say the same thing of the last IOs that I have seen. Remember Sieghard. I am very interested in a iPhone or an iPad working well. I am the owner of those devices. The difference is that I want that apple makes a better effort developing operated system. Our pressure to apple will be good for us, and for apple also. When you make pressure on somebody, you make that person stronger. When you make pressure on apple to fix these silly things that before didn't work bad, but now are not working well, it will make apple stronger. not Sangsum, not Sony, not Panasonic. Apple needs to do a best effort with this issue. It is for apple, more than for us. - Original Message - From: Sieghard Weitzel siegh...@live.ca To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 4:13 PM Subject: RE: When will Apple take this seriously? Hello, Here is my summary of this entire thread: The original poster complained about 3 items and pointed out a fourth: 1. Hanging up phone calls is unreliable 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to contacts 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. Then Pablo jumped in with his well-known rant about how horrible Apple is in general because they make such expensive and terrible devices which don't work, where people are forced to upgrade to iOS 7 and where generally accessibility is terrible and where Pablo's rights are violated in a number of ways. As for Pablo's arguments, I have actually agreed with him in a very general way that Apple should give people the option to say if they wanted a new iOS to download automatically or not. At first I didn't see his point, but he argued this point well and I agree there should be such an option. However, this is in my view the only issue. Apple is not forcing anybody to upgrade to iOS 7. Yes, they are pushing the update and it takes up space on your phone, but you do not have to install it and I'll challenge anybody who says that iOS 7 magically installed on their phone without them doing anything or twice agreeing to the terms and conditions which simply does not happen. If Apple were to allow down the road that one could turn off the automatic downloading then nobody including Pablo could complain in any way because at that point if they upgrade it is entirely their choice. It's already their choice, but let's say somebody has an 8 Gb phone and they really need to free up that space so they install it, that is just a little big of pressure there even though you still decide to put up with iOS 7 in return for getting back 2 Gb of space on your phone. Now, as to the 4 items above: 1. Hanging up calls is unreliable I actually find the 2-finger double tap works better in iOS 7 but that is just my opinion. I think it's pretty safe to say though that it works at least as well and I have up to this point and it's now 2 months since iOS 7 was released, not seen a single post where somebody asked about or mentioned a problem with the 2-finger double tap to hang up. There is of course the other way to hang up a call which works 100% and that is to touch the End Cal lbutton which is really not hard to find as it's right there about the ome Key and to double tap it. As somebody else pointed out, it's not hard to check whether a call was hung up or is still connected. 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to contacts This works flawlessly for me and judging by what others wrote also for them. A simple double tap on a phone number asks me whether I want to call it, a double tap and hold brings up the options to call, add to contacts etc. I'd really like to see how this isn't working on Avnish's phone who I think was the one who posted that all of this didn't work. 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. This one I understand is an issue, I can't comment too much on it since I don't use Safari much to fill out web forms. I have done a few Google searches andwas able to type
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
Ow damn, that’s one expensive one. Whew, I’ll stick with my phone that um was wy less than that. May and Prince Noah www.canadianlynx.ca On Nov 10, 2013, at 6:48 PM, David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com wrote: Ok, go to American Printing House for the Blind, www.aph.org and check out their braille android phone. I believe the cost is around $4000. It is a phone specifically developed for the blind. It's specific functions work well for the blind. You have your wish answered. Enjoy your $4000 Android phone. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 11 Nov 2013, at 1:40, sen...@gmail.com wrote: This is very frustrating. Hordes of emails have circulated with the many shortcomings of IOS7. Many bugss and shortcomings that have appeared in ver 7 that were not in IOS6. It becomes very frustrating when even the basic phone functions are compromised. 1. Ending calls is a pain. Countless times I thought I had ended the call but it was active. This has lead to embarrassing situations and also a drain on my wallet due to large long distance call charges. 2. When I get phone numbers in a text message, I should be able to call or message or store the number with a tap. No! I could do it with my 6 year old Nokia better. 3. Entering data in a web form has become a nightmare. With my previous phones running Talks I could do much better. I pay 10 times to get a iphone and guess what? I can do less with it! Very frustrating. This list could go on and on. . . . New models will launch, new IOS versions will roll out. . . But the shortcomings and bugs will stick with us. Technology for the sake of technology. But no technology for the visually challenged. Wish someone would charge more but make a phone that works. With IOS7 AND IPHONE all one can do is pull ones hair out, welcome to a bald world populated with buggy iphones! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
, you make that person stronger. When you make pressure on apple to fix these silly things that before didn't work bad, but now are not working well, it will make apple stronger. not Sangsum, not Sony, not Panasonic. Apple needs to do a best effort with this issue. It is for apple, more than for us. - Original Message - From: Sieghard Weitzel siegh...@live.ca To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 4:13 PM Subject: RE: When will Apple take this seriously? Hello, Here is my summary of this entire thread: The original poster complained about 3 items and pointed out a fourth: 1. Hanging up phone calls is unreliable 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to contacts 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. Then Pablo jumped in with his well-known rant about how horrible Apple is in general because they make such expensive and terrible devices which don't work, where people are forced to upgrade to iOS 7 and where generally accessibility is terrible and where Pablo's rights are violated in a number of ways. As for Pablo's arguments, I have actually agreed with him in a very general way that Apple should give people the option to say if they wanted a new iOS to download automatically or not. At first I didn't see his point, but he argued this point well and I agree there should be such an option. However, this is in my view the only issue. Apple is not forcing anybody to upgrade to iOS 7. Yes, they are pushing the update and it takes up space on your phone, but you do not have to install it and I'll challenge anybody who says that iOS 7 magically installed on their phone without them doing anything or twice agreeing to the terms and conditions which simply does not happen. If Apple were to allow down the road that one could turn off the automatic downloading then nobody including Pablo could complain in any way because at that point if they upgrade it is entirely their choice. It's already their choice, but let's say somebody has an 8 Gb phone and they really need to free up that space so they install it, that is just a little big of pressure there even though you still decide to put up with iOS 7 in return for getting back 2 Gb of space on your phone. Now, as to the 4 items above: 1. Hanging up calls is unreliable I actually find the 2-finger double tap works better in iOS 7 but that is just my opinion. I think it's pretty safe to say though that it works at least as well and I have up to this point and it's now 2 months since iOS 7 was released, not seen a single post where somebody asked about or mentioned a problem with the 2-finger double tap to hang up. There is of course the other way to hang up a call which works 100% and that is to touch the End Cal lbutton which is really not hard to find as it's right there about the ome Key and to double tap it. As somebody else pointed out, it's not hard to check whether a call was hung up or is still connected. 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to contacts This works flawlessly for me and judging by what others wrote also for them. A simple double tap on a phone number asks me whether I want to call it, a double tap and hold brings up the options to call, add to contacts etc. I'd really like to see how this isn't working on Avnish's phone who I think was the one who posted that all of this didn't work. 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. This one I understand is an issue, I can't comment too much on it since I don't use Safari much to fill out web forms. I have done a few Google searches andwas able to type in a search term just find, the same on the Audible site. Anyhow, if it is buggy then I sure hope those who find this so horrible have written to Apple about it. To me this is like voting. If I talk to somebody about politics and they start a big rant about the government I usually ask first if they voted in the last election. More than once somebody said that they don't vote in which case I usually tell them that they might as well shut up then because if they don't participate in electing the government then they have no right to complain. I am not saying Avnish hasn't written to Apple to explain places where encounters problems, but I see a lot of this on the list and I wonder if everybody also takes the time to compose a constructive email to accessibil...@apple.com to make sure they know about the issues. 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. Well, what can I say, Ricardo already said it. Talks has been gone for some time and no Nokia phone with Talks even at its best can do what the iPhone can do or even get close to the level of accessibility iOs offers. It's of course easier to offer accessibility for a device which has only half the features of iOS. I remember
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
are not working well, it will make apple stronger. not Sangsum, not Sony, not Panasonic. Apple needs to do a best effort with this issue. It is for apple, more than for us. - Original Message - From: Sieghard Weitzel siegh...@live.ca To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 4:13 PM Subject: RE: When will Apple take this seriously? Hello, Here is my summary of this entire thread: The original poster complained about 3 items and pointed out a fourth: 1. Hanging up phone calls is unreliable 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to contacts 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. Then Pablo jumped in with his well-known rant about how horrible Apple is in general because they make such expensive and terrible devices which don't work, where people are forced to upgrade to iOS 7 and where generally accessibility is terrible and where Pablo's rights are violated in a number of ways. As for Pablo's arguments, I have actually agreed with him in a very general way that Apple should give people the option to say if they wanted a new iOS to download automatically or not. At first I didn't see his point, but he argued this point well and I agree there should be such an option. However, this is in my view the only issue. Apple is not forcing anybody to upgrade to iOS 7. Yes, they are pushing the update and it takes up space on your phone, but you do not have to install it and I'll challenge anybody who says that iOS 7 magically installed on their phone without them doing anything or twice agreeing to the terms and conditions which simply does not happen. If Apple were to allow down the road that one could turn off the automatic downloading then nobody including Pablo could complain in any way because at that point if they upgrade it is entirely their choice. It's already their choice, but let's say somebody has an 8 Gb phone and they really need to free up that space so they install it, that is just a little big of pressure there even though you still decide to put up with iOS 7 in return for getting back 2 Gb of space on your phone. Now, as to the 4 items above: 1. Hanging up calls is unreliable I actually find the 2-finger double tap works better in iOS 7 but that is just my opinion. I think it's pretty safe to say though that it works at least as well and I have up to this point and it's now 2 months since iOS 7 was released, not seen a single post where somebody asked about or mentioned a problem with the 2-finger double tap to hang up. There is of course the other way to hang up a call which works 100% and that is to touch the End Cal lbutton which is really not hard to find as it's right there about the ome Key and to double tap it. As somebody else pointed out, it's not hard to check whether a call was hung up or is still connected. 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to contacts This works flawlessly for me and judging by what others wrote also for them. A simple double tap on a phone number asks me whether I want to call it, a double tap and hold brings up the options to call, add to contacts etc. I'd really like to see how this isn't working on Avnish's phone who I think was the one who posted that all of this didn't work. 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. This one I understand is an issue, I can't comment too much on it since I don't use Safari much to fill out web forms. I have done a few Google searches andwas able to type in a search term just find, the same on the Audible site. Anyhow, if it is buggy then I sure hope those who find this so horrible have written to Apple about it. To me this is like voting. If I talk to somebody about politics and they start a big rant about the government I usually ask first if they voted in the last election. More than once somebody said that they don't vote in which case I usually tell them that they might as well shut up then because if they don't participate in electing the government then they have no right to complain. I am not saying Avnish hasn't written to Apple to explain places where encounters problems, but I see a lot of this on the list and I wonder if everybody also takes the time to compose a constructive email to accessibil...@apple.com to make sure they know about the issues. 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. Well, what can I say, Ricardo already said it. Talks has been gone for some time and no Nokia phone with Talks even at its best can do what the iPhone can do or even get close to the level of accessibility iOs offers. It's of course easier to offer accessibility for a device which has only half the features of iOS. I remember trying to use Skype on my Windows Smartphone with MobileSpeak and it was a complete joke and waste of time. Apps were almost non-existent and I
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
make that person stronger. When you make pressure on apple to fix these silly things that before didn't work bad, but now are not working well, it will make apple stronger. not Sangsum, not Sony, not Panasonic. Apple needs to do a best effort with this issue. It is for apple, more than for us. - Original Message - From: Sieghard Weitzel siegh...@live.ca To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 4:13 PM Subject: RE: When will Apple take this seriously? Hello, Here is my summary of this entire thread: The original poster complained about 3 items and pointed out a fourth: 1. Hanging up phone calls is unreliable 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to contacts 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. Then Pablo jumped in with his well-known rant about how horrible Apple is in general because they make such expensive and terrible devices which don't work, where people are forced to upgrade to iOS 7 and where generally accessibility is terrible and where Pablo's rights are violated in a number of ways. As for Pablo's arguments, I have actually agreed with him in a very general way that Apple should give people the option to say if they wanted a new iOS to download automatically or not. At first I didn't see his point, but he argued this point well and I agree there should be such an option. However, this is in my view the only issue. Apple is not forcing anybody to upgrade to iOS 7. Yes, they are pushing the update and it takes up space on your phone, but you do not have to install it and I'll challenge anybody who says that iOS 7 magically installed on their phone without them doing anything or twice agreeing to the terms and conditions which simply does not happen. If Apple were to allow down the road that one could turn off the automatic downloading then nobody including Pablo could complain in any way because at that point if they upgrade it is entirely their choice. It's already their choice, but let's say somebody has an 8 Gb phone and they really need to free up that space so they install it, that is just a little big of pressure there even though you still decide to put up with iOS 7 in return for getting back 2 Gb of space on your phone. Now, as to the 4 items above: 1. Hanging up calls is unreliable I actually find the 2-finger double tap works better in iOS 7 but that is just my opinion. I think it's pretty safe to say though that it works at least as well and I have up to this point and it's now 2 months since iOS 7 was released, not seen a single post where somebody asked about or mentioned a problem with the 2-finger double tap to hang up. There is of course the other way to hang up a call which works 100% and that is to touch the End Cal lbutton which is really not hard to find as it's right there about the ome Key and to double tap it. As somebody else pointed out, it's not hard to check whether a call was hung up or is still connected. 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to contacts This works flawlessly for me and judging by what others wrote also for them. A simple double tap on a phone number asks me whether I want to call it, a double tap and hold brings up the options to call, add to contacts etc. I'd really like to see how this isn't working on Avnish's phone who I think was the one who posted that all of this didn't work. 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. This one I understand is an issue, I can't comment too much on it since I don't use Safari much to fill out web forms. I have done a few Google searches andwas able to type in a search term just find, the same on the Audible site. Anyhow, if it is buggy then I sure hope those who find this so horrible have written to Apple about it. To me this is like voting. If I talk to somebody about politics and they start a big rant about the government I usually ask first if they voted in the last election. More than once somebody said that they don't vote in which case I usually tell them that they might as well shut up then because if they don't participate in electing the government then they have no right to complain. I am not saying Avnish hasn't written to Apple to explain places where encounters problems, but I see a lot of this on the list and I wonder if everybody also takes the time to compose a constructive email to accessibil...@apple.com to make sure they know about the issues. 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. Well, what can I say, Ricardo already said it. Talks has been gone for some time and no Nokia phone with Talks even at its best can do what the iPhone can do or even get close to the level of accessibility iOs offers. It's of course easier to offer accessibility for a device which has only half the features of iOS. I remember trying
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
these silly things that before didn't work bad, but now are not working well, it will make apple stronger. not Sangsum, not Sony, not Panasonic. Apple needs to do a best effort with this issue. It is for apple, more than for us. - Original Message - From: Sieghard Weitzel siegh...@live.ca To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 4:13 PM Subject: RE: When will Apple take this seriously? Hello, Here is my summary of this entire thread: The original poster complained about 3 items and pointed out a fourth: 1. Hanging up phone calls is unreliable 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to contacts 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. Then Pablo jumped in with his well-known rant about how horrible Apple is in general because they make such expensive and terrible devices which don't work, where people are forced to upgrade to iOS 7 and where generally accessibility is terrible and where Pablo's rights are violated in a number of ways. As for Pablo's arguments, I have actually agreed with him in a very general way that Apple should give people the option to say if they wanted a new iOS to download automatically or not. At first I didn't see his point, but he argued this point well and I agree there should be such an option. However, this is in my view the only issue. Apple is not forcing anybody to upgrade to iOS 7. Yes, they are pushing the update and it takes up space on your phone, but you do not have to install it and I'll challenge anybody who says that iOS 7 magically installed on their phone without them doing anything or twice agreeing to the terms and conditions which simply does not happen. If Apple were to allow down the road that one could turn off the automatic downloading then nobody including Pablo could complain in any way because at that point if they upgrade it is entirely their choice. It's already their choice, but let's say somebody has an 8 Gb phone and they really need to free up that space so they install it, that is just a little big of pressure there even though you still decide to put up with iOS 7 in return for getting back 2 Gb of space on your phone. Now, as to the 4 items above: 1. Hanging up calls is unreliable I actually find the 2-finger double tap works better in iOS 7 but that is just my opinion. I think it's pretty safe to say though that it works at least as well and I have up to this point and it's now 2 months since iOS 7 was released, not seen a single post where somebody asked about or mentioned a problem with the 2-finger double tap to hang up. There is of course the other way to hang up a call which works 100% and that is to touch the End Cal lbutton which is really not hard to find as it's right there about the ome Key and to double tap it. As somebody else pointed out, it's not hard to check whether a call was hung up or is still connected. 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to contacts This works flawlessly for me and judging by what others wrote also for them. A simple double tap on a phone number asks me whether I want to call it, a double tap and hold brings up the options to call, add to contacts etc. I'd really like to see how this isn't working on Avnish's phone who I think was the one who posted that all of this didn't work. 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. This one I understand is an issue, I can't comment too much on it since I don't use Safari much to fill out web forms. I have done a few Google searches andwas able to type in a search term just find, the same on the Audible site. Anyhow, if it is buggy then I sure hope those who find this so horrible have written to Apple about it. To me this is like voting. If I talk to somebody about politics and they start a big rant about the government I usually ask first if they voted in the last election. More than once somebody said that they don't vote in which case I usually tell them that they might as well shut up then because if they don't participate in electing the government then they have no right to complain. I am not saying Avnish hasn't written to Apple to explain places where encounters problems, but I see a lot of this on the list and I wonder if everybody also takes the time to compose a constructive email to accessibil...@apple.com to make sure they know about the issues. 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. Well, what can I say, Ricardo already said it. Talks has been gone for some time and no Nokia phone with Talks even at its best can do what the iPhone can do or even get close to the level of accessibility iOs offers. It's of course easier to offer accessibility for a device which has only half the features of iOS. I remember trying to use Skype on my Windows Smartphone with MobileSpeak
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
of those devices. The difference is that I want that apple makes a better effort developing operated system. Our pressure to apple will be good for us, and for apple also. When you make pressure on somebody, you make that person stronger. When you make pressure on apple to fix these silly things that before didn't work bad, but now are not working well, it will make apple stronger. not Sangsum, not Sony, not Panasonic. Apple needs to do a best effort with this issue. It is for apple, more than for us. - Original Message - From: Sieghard Weitzel siegh...@live.ca To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 4:13 PM Subject: RE: When will Apple take this seriously? Hello, Here is my summary of this entire thread: The original poster complained about 3 items and pointed out a fourth: 1. Hanging up phone calls is unreliable 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to contacts 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. Then Pablo jumped in with his well-known rant about how horrible Apple is in general because they make such expensive and terrible devices which don't work, where people are forced to upgrade to iOS 7 and where generally accessibility is terrible and where Pablo's rights are violated in a number of ways. As for Pablo's arguments, I have actually agreed with him in a very general way that Apple should give people the option to say if they wanted a new iOS to download automatically or not. At first I didn't see his point, but he argued this point well and I agree there should be such an option. However, this is in my view the only issue. Apple is not forcing anybody to upgrade to iOS 7. Yes, they are pushing the update and it takes up space on your phone, but you do not have to install it and I'll challenge anybody who says that iOS 7 magically installed on their phone without them doing anything or twice agreeing to the terms and conditions which simply does not happen. If Apple were to allow down the road that one could turn off the automatic downloading then nobody including Pablo could complain in any way because at that point if they upgrade it is entirely their choice. It's already their choice, but let's say somebody has an 8 Gb phone and they really need to free up that space so they install it, that is just a little big of pressure there even though you still decide to put up with iOS 7 in return for getting back 2 Gb of space on your phone. Now, as to the 4 items above: 1. Hanging up calls is unreliable I actually find the 2-finger double tap works better in iOS 7 but that is just my opinion. I think it's pretty safe to say though that it works at least as well and I have up to this point and it's now 2 months since iOS 7 was released, not seen a single post where somebody asked about or mentioned a problem with the 2-finger double tap to hang up. There is of course the other way to hang up a call which works 100% and that is to touch the End Cal lbutton which is really not hard to find as it's right there about the ome Key and to double tap it. As somebody else pointed out, it's not hard to check whether a call was hung up or is still connected. 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to contacts This works flawlessly for me and judging by what others wrote also for them. A simple double tap on a phone number asks me whether I want to call it, a double tap and hold brings up the options to call, add to contacts etc. I'd really like to see how this isn't working on Avnish's phone who I think was the one who posted that all of this didn't work. 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. This one I understand is an issue, I can't comment too much on it since I don't use Safari much to fill out web forms. I have done a few Google searches andwas able to type in a search term just find, the same on the Audible site. Anyhow, if it is buggy then I sure hope those who find this so horrible have written to Apple about it. To me this is like voting. If I talk to somebody about politics and they start a big rant about the government I usually ask first if they voted in the last election. More than once somebody said that they don't vote in which case I usually tell them that they might as well shut up then because if they don't participate in electing the government then they have no right to complain. I am not saying Avnish hasn't written to Apple to explain places where encounters problems, but I see a lot of this on the list and I wonder if everybody also takes the time to compose a constructive email to accessibil...@apple.com to make sure they know about the issues. 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. Well, what can I say, Ricardo already said it. Talks has been gone for some time and no Nokia phone with Talks even at its
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
Remember to compare apples to apples. This is a 18 cell braille note taker and not just a smart phone. A 14 cell braille display from Freedom Scientific costs $1300, so an 18 cell display would cost a bit more. Combine a 18 cell braille display with a unlocked smart phone and although the Braille Plus 18 still costs a bit more, the difference in price is much less than just comparing an iPhone to a Braille Plus 18, which costs $3600. On 11/10/2013 07:50 PM, May and Noah wrote: Ow damn, that’s one expensive one. Whew, I’ll stick with my phone that um was wy less than that. May and Prince Noah www.canadianlynx.ca On Nov 10, 2013, at 6:48 PM, David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com wrote: Ok, go to American Printing House for the Blind, www.aph.org and check out their braille android phone. I believe the cost is around $4000. It is a phone specifically developed for the blind. It's specific functions work well for the blind. You have your wish answered. Enjoy your $4000 Android phone. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 11 Nov 2013, at 1:40, sen...@gmail.com wrote: This is very frustrating. Hordes of emails have circulated with the many shortcomings of IOS7. Many bugss and shortcomings that have appeared in ver 7 that were not in IOS6. It becomes very frustrating when even the basic phone functions are compromised. 1. Ending calls is a pain. Countless times I thought I had ended the call but it was active. This has lead to embarrassing situations and also a drain on my wallet due to large long distance call charges. 2. When I get phone numbers in a text message, I should be able to call or message or store the number with a tap. No! I could do it with my 6 year old Nokia better. 3. Entering data in a web form has become a nightmare. With my previous phones running Talks I could do much better. I pay 10 times to get a iphone and guess what? I can do less with it! Very frustrating. This list could go on and on. . . . New models will launch, new IOS versions will roll out. . . But the shortcomings and bugs will stick with us. Technology for the sake of technology. But no technology for the visually challenged. Wish someone would charge more but make a phone that works. With IOS7 AND IPHONE all one can do is pull ones hair out, welcome to a bald world populated with buggy iphones! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- Christopher (CJ) chaltain at Gmail -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups VIPhone group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
RE: When will Apple take this seriously?
Christopher, You make a good point. Sometimes Safari and the iPhone work great on a website, other times Jaws and IE or Jaws and Firefox do a great job. How often have I started to sign up for a service or something using IE only to find a captcha with no audio option after pressing Next 3 times. Then I had to go and do it all over in Firefox where I have Webvisum available to solve the captcha. I do woodworking as a hobby and I don't cut every piece of wood with my table saw. Sometimes I use a miter saw, a jig saw or even a hand saw. In the same way I think we have to take advantage of the tools available to us when it comes to reading emails etc. I love the Mail app on the iPhone, but I would never use it for Viphone because I don't need to hear 100 dings each day when messages come in and I can go through 100 messages and reply to 10 of them much much faster on my PC than I ever could on my phone. On the other hand I prefer to use the Booking.com app for making a hotel reservation over using the booking.com website on the computer and the same goes for using the Trip Advisor app over the Trip Advisor website which is really cluttered and full of ads. Regards, Sieghard -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 4:13 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? When you say: As for Talks and Nokia, the person can always go to the newest Windows Mobile phone and get the latest Mobile Speak for it. This is a specifically written app with six features in it. Nothing else can be accessed on the phone, so it will be very similar to the old Nokia with Talks. I assume you're talking about the latest Windows Phone 8 smart phone and Mobile Accessibility for Windows Phone 8. Windows Windows Mobile and Mobile Speak were different products. Also, as you say Mobile Accessibility for Windows Phone 8 only gives you a suite of accessible apps. this is very different from Talks, which was a 3rd party screen reader giving you access to the operating system and numerous apps on your smart phone. I agree, sometimes Safari and VoiceOver is going to give you the best access to a web site, but I've also had trouble with this combination when Chrome or Orca and Firefox or some other combination gave me better results. On 11/10/2013 05:36 PM, David Chittenden wrote: Thank you for that summary. I just started reading this thread. The only point I can confirm is item 3. VO has a difficult time tracking in Safari when filling out complex forms. To be fair, many of the forms VO struggles with are also extremely difficult on the computer. They have quite a bit to do with newer web technologies. Other places where VO struggles appear to not move the visual page on the display as one flicks through the form using right flicks. When the button or edit box is not on the visual screen, it will not activate with a double or even, triple tap. However, there is a work-around that works for most websites I have tried. Physically find the edit field and hold your finger on it. This locks it on the visual display. Split-tap with another finger and the edit box is locked in with the keyboard. Because of rapid screen refreshes, it may be impossible to then flick to the next edit field. In this case, locate the done button above the o and p letters on the keyboard and double-tap it. This releases the edit field and one can now locate the next edit field. Follow the same procedure. When finished with the form, locate the continue, submit, or otherly worded button and split-tap it. again, as I previously stated, because of the newer web technologies, many of these complex new web technologies are also complicated, if not impossible, for computer-based screen readers. In Apple's favour, I have been able to access some forms on my iPhone using the above procedure, which people on certain lists have stated that Jaws cannot access on Windows and IE 10. As for Talks and Nokia, the person can always go to the newest Windows Mobile phone and get the latest Mobile Speak for it. This is a specifically written app with six features in it. Nothing else can be accessed on the phone, so it will be very similar to the old Nokia with Talks. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 11 Nov 2013, at 10:13, Sieghard Weitzel siegh...@live.ca wrote: Hello, Here is my summary of this entire thread: The original poster complained about 3 items and pointed out a fourth: 1. Hanging up phone calls is unreliable 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to contacts 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. Then Pablo jumped in with his well-known rant about how horrible Apple is in general because they make such expensive
RE: When will Apple take this seriously?
Pablo, I just don't understand some of the complaints. I don't see a difference in the location of the End button when I'm on a phone call, it's still right there at the bottom of the screen. Then there are little things like Voiceover saying Screene Locked a second time, I mean, really, so what. What about all the improvements? All some people do is complain but they forget to recognize the good things. What about the handwriting feature which is awesome for quickly finding apps? What about SIRI which works better now than ever? What about the new 2-finger quadruple tap to copy the last spoken text which I use quite often and find great? What about Facetime Audio, I think it's awesome. What about little fixes like Voiceovover not losing focus when I am in email 53 of my Inbox and back out where it now stays on email 53 instead of going back to email 1? This, by the way, I remember you complained about bitterly when iOS 6 was released and this was introduced. What about the fantastic support for hearing aids, not something that is mentioned that often on this list even though I know some Viphone members have significant hearing loss and for them this is more revolutionary than evolutionary. These are just a few examples, some are general features and some are accessibility related. Pablo, I am not saying it's all peaches and cream, there are bugs, there always were bugs and there always will be bugs. In the meantime I love what I can do with my iPhone, the access to apps and information it gives me. I prefer to send the occasional email to the accessibility team if I am sure I found something that truly doesn't work and which isn't working because I am not paying attention because I know that Apple is committed to improving accessibility even if apparently you feel it's worse than ever. Maybe you should look for an iPhone 3GS running iOS 5 or iOS 6 on eBay so you can have the experience you seem to be missing. Happy tapping, Sieghard -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pablo Morales Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 3:41 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Sieghard, what are you talking about? So for you is not fir that I complain when I feel that somebody is abusing when they decrees the quality of a product? For example, in IOs 5, the typing emails or typing text messages, wasn't a problem, in IOs 6 either, but now in IOs 7 is very difficult. If not every body is getting the same problem, it doesn't mean that is not enough people getting the problem. I have seen this kind of complain in the list, several times. It was happening in the previous versions of IOs? No, it didn't. Now VO says after the screen is locked, Screen lockedand seconds or minutes later, VO repeats the message. It happened before? No, it didn't. When we receive a call, is easy to find the end button? is easy to finish the phone call? No, it is not, is not one people getting this problem, is a lot of people saying the same thing. It happened before? No, it didn't. Field a text box in a web site, is difficult, or some times impossible. If you don't do it, it doesn't means that it is not a bug. It means that you don't field text fields on web sites, it is all. It happened before? No, it didn't. Now when we are reading the list of emails, or what ever list of content, voice over jumps every where, and we have to cross the whole list of content again to find where we were before VO jump out. it happened before? No, it didn't. Now, if we are playing a song, or audio book, or what ever kind of media, and we press the power button, VO says the track position. Before VO said the time. Now VO says the track position. It happened before? No, it didn't. I have taken the situation when VO stop talking, my phone is in silence for seconds, or minutes. Some times I have to turn off my phone, guessing pressing the power button for 10 seconds, and making a double tab on the screen, or just holding the power button for more than 10 seconds. What is happening? No body knows, but I am looking emails of people who is getting pretty similar problems. it happened before? No, it didn't! How many, no, It didn't, you want Sieghard? . I understand that VO included new things in IOs 7, but why they have to break things that were working well before? In my opinion, apple didn't care every detail in this last IOs. Now, I am talking about the problems with VO, and are so much more problems that are not in this email. But add to this list the problems that people who is not voice over user is getting? I am not saying that apple is not a good product. It is the better product right now. But they are not taking care of details, as they have done before. While Sangsum is improving and doing better phones every day, apple is not doing a good effort in this issue. So I am not talking about hardware, I am talking about IOs developers. In the last 2
RE: When will Apple take this seriously?
And one can always just press the home key a moment longer and ask SIRI What is the time -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chittenden Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 5:59 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Pablo, VO announcing the track position rather than the time is a new feature, not a bug. When an audio track is playing, the lock screen now displays the audio player screen rather than the normal unlock screen. If you would rather the normal unlock screen was displayed, send an email to Apple about it. However, this is not a bug! In fact, I am willing to bet that many people sent Apple complaints because the audio player did not automatically come up when they first opened the lock screen. If that is the case, I seriously doubt your message will cause Apple to change back to the previous system. After all, how often do the majority of users activate the lock screen to manipulate their audio playback compared with how many do so to check the time. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 11 Nov 2013, at 12:41, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: Sieghard, what are you talking about? So for you is not fir that I complain when I feel that somebody is abusing when they decrees the quality of a product? For example, in IOs 5, the typing emails or typing text messages, wasn't a problem, in IOs 6 either, but now in IOs 7 is very difficult. If not every body is getting the same problem, it doesn't mean that is not enough people getting the problem. I have seen this kind of complain in the list, several times. It was happening in the previous versions of IOs? No, it didn't. Now VO says after the screen is locked, Screen lockedand seconds or minutes later, VO repeats the message. It happened before? No, it didn't. When we receive a call, is easy to find the end button? is easy to finish the phone call? No, it is not, is not one people getting this problem, is a lot of people saying the same thing. It happened before? No, it didn't. Field a text box in a web site, is difficult, or some times impossible. If you don't do it, it doesn't means that it is not a bug. It means that you don't field text fields on web sites, it is all. It happened before? No, it didn't. Now when we are reading the list of emails, or what ever list of content, voice over jumps every where, and we have to cross the whole list of content again to find where we were before VO jump out. it happened before? No, it didn't. Now, if we are playing a song, or audio book, or what ever kind of media, and we press the power button, VO says the track position. Before VO said the time. Now VO says the track position. It happened before? No, it didn't. I have taken the situation when VO stop talking, my phone is in silence for seconds, or minutes. Some times I have to turn off my phone, guessing pressing the power button for 10 seconds, and making a double tab on the screen, or just holding the power button for more than 10 seconds. What is happening? No body knows, but I am looking emails of people who is getting pretty similar problems. it happened before? No, it didn't! How many, no, It didn't, you want Sieghard? . I understand that VO included new things in IOs 7, but why they have to break things that were working well before? In my opinion, apple didn't care every detail in this last IOs. Now, I am talking about the problems with VO, and are so much more problems that are not in this email. But add to this list the problems that people who is not voice over user is getting? I am not saying that apple is not a good product. It is the better product right now. But they are not taking care of details, as they have done before. While Sangsum is improving and doing better phones every day, apple is not doing a good effort in this issue. So I am not talking about hardware, I am talking about IOs developers. In the last 2 versions of IOs, they included new things, but they broke things that were working well before. One more thing, today we are in November 10, 2013. In one more year, you will see that we will be talking about new bugs, in the new IOs, and the bugs and problems that we are getting now, will not be fixed all of them when the new Ios comes, even though we will have to start, to restart again, with new bugs, and never we will be happy, because every year, they have a new IOs, and we have to restart the hard process of report bugs, bugs that some will be fix, but other never will be fix. So Sieghard. In my opinion again. Apple makes great phones, but I can not say the same thing of the last IOs that I have seen. Remember Sieghard. I am very interested in a iPhone or an iPad working well. I am the owner of those devices. The difference is that I want that apple makes a better effort developing operated system
RE: When will Apple take this seriously?
I have 1 Exchange account and 2 Outlook.com accounts and I have never experienced this issue. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chittenden Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 6:06 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Pablo, The email tracking bug is definitely annoying. Have you figured out what it actually does, or do you believe it just jumps VO all over the place. If the latter, Apple may not understand what you mean when you tell them because they may not be able to reproduce what you say. In that spirit, here is what is actually happening. When mail goes to the server to get the latest messages, if one is reading a message that happens to be in a thread, iOS actually jumps to another message in the thread. Now, I have read some messages that Apple has pinpointed this bug in mail, and that it is exclusive to gmail accounts. If you have a gmail account and this is where the problem is occurring, Apple is working on it. If you have a different account provider and this problem is occurring, notify Apple because the reports stated this particular bug which I spelled out is specific to gmail. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 11 Nov 2013, at 12:41, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: Sieghard, what are you talking about? So for you is not fir that I complain when I feel that somebody is abusing when they decrees the quality of a product? For example, in IOs 5, the typing emails or typing text messages, wasn't a problem, in IOs 6 either, but now in IOs 7 is very difficult. If not every body is getting the same problem, it doesn't mean that is not enough people getting the problem. I have seen this kind of complain in the list, several times. It was happening in the previous versions of IOs? No, it didn't. Now VO says after the screen is locked, Screen lockedand seconds or minutes later, VO repeats the message. It happened before? No, it didn't. When we receive a call, is easy to find the end button? is easy to finish the phone call? No, it is not, is not one people getting this problem, is a lot of people saying the same thing. It happened before? No, it didn't. Field a text box in a web site, is difficult, or some times impossible. If you don't do it, it doesn't means that it is not a bug. It means that you don't field text fields on web sites, it is all. It happened before? No, it didn't. Now when we are reading the list of emails, or what ever list of content, voice over jumps every where, and we have to cross the whole list of content again to find where we were before VO jump out. it happened before? No, it didn't. Now, if we are playing a song, or audio book, or what ever kind of media, and we press the power button, VO says the track position. Before VO said the time. Now VO says the track position. It happened before? No, it didn't. I have taken the situation when VO stop talking, my phone is in silence for seconds, or minutes. Some times I have to turn off my phone, guessing pressing the power button for 10 seconds, and making a double tab on the screen, or just holding the power button for more than 10 seconds. What is happening? No body knows, but I am looking emails of people who is getting pretty similar problems. it happened before? No, it didn't! How many, no, It didn't, you want Sieghard? . I understand that VO included new things in IOs 7, but why they have to break things that were working well before? In my opinion, apple didn't care every detail in this last IOs. Now, I am talking about the problems with VO, and are so much more problems that are not in this email. But add to this list the problems that people who is not voice over user is getting? I am not saying that apple is not a good product. It is the better product right now. But they are not taking care of details, as they have done before. While Sangsum is improving and doing better phones every day, apple is not doing a good effort in this issue. So I am not talking about hardware, I am talking about IOs developers. In the last 2 versions of IOs, they included new things, but they broke things that were working well before. One more thing, today we are in November 10, 2013. In one more year, you will see that we will be talking about new bugs, in the new IOs, and the bugs and problems that we are getting now, will not be fixed all of them when the new Ios comes, even though we will have to start, to restart again, with new bugs, and never we will be happy, because every year, they have a new IOs, and we have to restart the hard process of report bugs, bugs that some will be fix, but other never will be fix. So Sieghard. In my opinion again. Apple makes great phones, but I can not say the same thing of the last IOs that I have seen. Remember Sieghard. I am very interested in a iPhone
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
I think that Sieghard put it well. I am very tired of listening to people complaining about their phones and the problems they are having. If you are so unhappy with Apple or your IPhone sell it and buy an android phone. For the vast majority of the blind people using this technology it works quite well. Yes their are bugs but they exist with all technology products. At least with the IPhone we have the option to upgrade when a new version of their software comes out. We are not at the mercy of the phone carriers or manufacturers as to whether they will let us upgrade. All in all this technology works well. It has provided us the ability to do much more with our phones than we thought possible just a few short years ago. On 11/10/13, David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you for that summary. I just started reading this thread. The only point I can confirm is item 3. VO has a difficult time tracking in Safari when filling out complex forms. To be fair, many of the forms VO struggles with are also extremely difficult on the computer. They have quite a bit to do with newer web technologies. Other places where VO struggles appear to not move the visual page on the display as one flicks through the form using right flicks. When the button or edit box is not on the visual screen, it will not activate with a double or even, triple tap. However, there is a work-around that works for most websites I have tried. Physically find the edit field and hold your finger on it. This locks it on the visual display. Split-tap with another finger and the edit box is locked in with the keyboard. Because of rapid screen refreshes, it may be impossible to then flick to the next edit field. In this case, locate the done button above the o and p letters on the keyboard and double-tap it. This releases the edit field and one can now locate the next edit field. Follow the same procedure. When finished with the form, locate the continue, submit, or otherly worded button and split-tap it. again, as I previously stated, because of the newer web technologies, many of these complex new web technologies are also complicated, if not impossible, for computer-based screen readers. In Apple's favour, I have been able to access some forms on my iPhone using the above procedure, which people on certain lists have stated that Jaws cannot access on Windows and IE 10. As for Talks and Nokia, the person can always go to the newest Windows Mobile phone and get the latest Mobile Speak for it. This is a specifically written app with six features in it. Nothing else can be accessed on the phone, so it will be very similar to the old Nokia with Talks. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 11 Nov 2013, at 10:13, Sieghard Weitzel siegh...@live.ca wrote: Hello, Here is my summary of this entire thread: The original poster complained about 3 items and pointed out a fourth: 1. Hanging up phone calls is unreliable 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to contacts 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. Then Pablo jumped in with his well-known rant about how horrible Apple is in general because they make such expensive and terrible devices which don't work, where people are forced to upgrade to iOS 7 and where generally accessibility is terrible and where Pablo's rights are violated in a number of ways. As for Pablo's arguments, I have actually agreed with him in a very general way that Apple should give people the option to say if they wanted a new iOS to download automatically or not. At first I didn't see his point, but he argued this point well and I agree there should be such an option. However, this is in my view the only issue. Apple is not forcing anybody to upgrade to iOS 7. Yes, they are pushing the update and it takes up space on your phone, but you do not have to install it and I'll challenge anybody who says that iOS 7 magically installed on their phone without them doing anything or twice agreeing to the terms and conditions which simply does not happen. If Apple were to allow down the road that one could turn off the automatic downloading then nobody including Pablo could complain in any way because at that point if they upgrade it is entirely their choice. It's already their choice, but let's say somebody has an 8 Gb phone and they really need to free up that space so they install it, that is just a little big of pressure there even though you still decide to put up with iOS 7 in return for getting back 2 Gb of space on your phone. Now, as to the 4 items above: 1. Hanging up calls is unreliable I actually find the 2-finger double tap works better in iOS 7 but that is just my opinion. I think it's pretty safe to say though that it works at least as well and I have up to this point
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
No David, sorry, but you are wrong. When an email comes, is normal that the cursor of VO find the first email on the list. It is the way how the IOs handle the order of emails to show. But I am not talking that when comes an email, VO jump to the first email. Normally it jump to the side of the screen that says, updated just now.. it is not in the list of emails, because of that, I have to find the email where I was before. Sorry big guy, but I am not talking about that. More over, when I have a list of content, VO jumps to the top of the list, or to the tag coming back, or to any button on the screen. For example in Settings, VO jumps to the header settings, or where ever is, to the tag that says back. And here are not coming emails. Sorry my friend, I am not trying to just be against you, just your point is not my point. , - Original Message - From: David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 9:05 PM Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Pablo, The email tracking bug is definitely annoying. Have you figured out what it actually does, or do you believe it just jumps VO all over the place. If the latter, Apple may not understand what you mean when you tell them because they may not be able to reproduce what you say. In that spirit, here is what is actually happening. When mail goes to the server to get the latest messages, if one is reading a message that happens to be in a thread, iOS actually jumps to another message in the thread. Now, I have read some messages that Apple has pinpointed this bug in mail, and that it is exclusive to gmail accounts. If you have a gmail account and this is where the problem is occurring, Apple is working on it. If you have a different account provider and this problem is occurring, notify Apple because the reports stated this particular bug which I spelled out is specific to gmail. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 11 Nov 2013, at 12:41, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: Sieghard, what are you talking about? So for you is not fir that I complain when I feel that somebody is abusing when they decrees the quality of a product? For example, in IOs 5, the typing emails or typing text messages, wasn't a problem, in IOs 6 either, but now in IOs 7 is very difficult. If not every body is getting the same problem, it doesn't mean that is not enough people getting the problem. I have seen this kind of complain in the list, several times. It was happening in the previous versions of IOs? No, it didn't. Now VO says after the screen is locked, Screen lockedand seconds or minutes later, VO repeats the message. It happened before? No, it didn't. When we receive a call, is easy to find the end button? is easy to finish the phone call? No, it is not, is not one people getting this problem, is a lot of people saying the same thing. It happened before? No, it didn't. Field a text box in a web site, is difficult, or some times impossible. If you don't do it, it doesn't means that it is not a bug. It means that you don't field text fields on web sites, it is all. It happened before? No, it didn't. Now when we are reading the list of emails, or what ever list of content, voice over jumps every where, and we have to cross the whole list of content again to find where we were before VO jump out. it happened before? No, it didn't. Now, if we are playing a song, or audio book, or what ever kind of media, and we press the power button, VO says the track position. Before VO said the time. Now VO says the track position. It happened before? No, it didn't. I have taken the situation when VO stop talking, my phone is in silence for seconds, or minutes. Some times I have to turn off my phone, guessing pressing the power button for 10 seconds, and making a double tab on the screen, or just holding the power button for more than 10 seconds. What is happening? No body knows, but I am looking emails of people who is getting pretty similar problems. it happened before? No, it didn't! How many, no, It didn't, you want Sieghard? . I understand that VO included new things in IOs 7, but why they have to break things that were working well before? In my opinion, apple didn't care every detail in this last IOs. Now, I am talking about the problems with VO, and are so much more problems that are not in this email. But add to this list the problems that people who is not voice over user is getting? I am not saying that apple is not a good product. It is the better product right now. But they are not taking care of details, as they have done before. While Sangsum is improving and doing better phones every day, apple is not doing a good effort in this issue. So I am not talking about hardware, I am talking about IOs developers. In the last 2 versions of IOs, they included new things
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
David, how this double announcement helped me to detect that problem? Sorry man, I can't follow you. In my opinion, it is a way to justify a bug. Remember David, been happy with every thing is not a solution. Apple needs to work on this issues, and over every thing, learn about every bug. I didn't write to apple about it, but I want to see if they will give me the same answer that you are giving me. I don't think that I am hurting apple saying what is working wrong, and how it worked before, and how it is working now. I think that if they work on this, IOs will be better. Look android, it is much better than IOs. We prefer to use IOs, because of Voice Over. But android is much better. Why you think that apple is losing market? Google is learning, and making a lot of effort in fix their problems. So I think that if we make pressure on apple, telling them, hey guys, it is not well, fix it. We will help apple, and help our self, because voice over is better than talk back or what ever other mobil screen reader. Sorry again David, but I can't see your point on this point. How the doble screen locked helped me? - Original Message - From: David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 8:52 PM Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Pablo, At an educated guess after observing the double announcement of screen lock, it looks like screen lock announcement is being triggered every time iOS drops into a further sleep mode. In your case, it actually helped you diagnose a problem a few weeks ago where an app, or a glitch (I do not remember which), was waking your iPhone just enough to take a picture. In fact, it was your report of this that caused me to think about what was occurring and find some ways to test it. So, you can give your phone an instruction which causes it to perform higher functioning for longer and lock the screen. The second screen lock announcement doesn't occur until after more time has elapsed. Annoying, yes, sometimes. As nasty of an effect on people as the severe motion sickness was on some people caused by Apple's cool new visual parallax effect which they corrected in the second update, not hardly. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 11 Nov 2013, at 12:41, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: Sieghard, what are you talking about? So for you is not fir that I complain when I feel that somebody is abusing when they decrees the quality of a product? For example, in IOs 5, the typing emails or typing text messages, wasn't a problem, in IOs 6 either, but now in IOs 7 is very difficult. If not every body is getting the same problem, it doesn't mean that is not enough people getting the problem. I have seen this kind of complain in the list, several times. It was happening in the previous versions of IOs? No, it didn't. Now VO says after the screen is locked, Screen lockedand seconds or minutes later, VO repeats the message. It happened before? No, it didn't. When we receive a call, is easy to find the end button? is easy to finish the phone call? No, it is not, is not one people getting this problem, is a lot of people saying the same thing. It happened before? No, it didn't. Field a text box in a web site, is difficult, or some times impossible. If you don't do it, it doesn't means that it is not a bug. It means that you don't field text fields on web sites, it is all. It happened before? No, it didn't. Now when we are reading the list of emails, or what ever list of content, voice over jumps every where, and we have to cross the whole list of content again to find where we were before VO jump out. it happened before? No, it didn't. Now, if we are playing a song, or audio book, or what ever kind of media, and we press the power button, VO says the track position. Before VO said the time. Now VO says the track position. It happened before? No, it didn't. I have taken the situation when VO stop talking, my phone is in silence for seconds, or minutes. Some times I have to turn off my phone, guessing pressing the power button for 10 seconds, and making a double tab on the screen, or just holding the power button for more than 10 seconds. What is happening? No body knows, but I am looking emails of people who is getting pretty similar problems. it happened before? No, it didn't! How many, no, It didn't, you want Sieghard? . I understand that VO included new things in IOs 7, but why they have to break things that were working well before? In my opinion, apple didn't care every detail in this last IOs. Now, I am talking about the problems with VO, and are so much more problems that are not in this email. But add to this list the problems that people who is not voice over user is getting? I am not saying that apple is not a good product. It is the better product right now
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
wow, very convenient when we are using the gps, or when we are writing an email, or looking a phone number. Very nice. Now I have a better opinion of apple hardware. - Original Message - From: David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 9:13 PM Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Pablo, The occasional occurrences of VO suddenly becoming silent for a little while appears to be iOS resetting its memory. In most cases, if you wait 15 to 30 seconds, VO comes back on and says Voice Over Ready. This means, VO had to be restarted. I remember when iOS 6 came out and VO would sometimes crash. Apple has improved the system now such that, when VO crashes, for what ever reason, it automatically restarts if you leave the system alone for a little while. Why is leaving the system alone so important? A sighted friend explained it to me. In iOS hierarchy, touching the screen takes precedence over almost every other task. Therefore, when you start touching and moving your finger around the nonresponsive screen, this distracts iOS and may block VO from restarting; thereby necessitating rebooting your iPhone. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 11 Nov 2013, at 12:41, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: Sieghard, what are you talking about? So for you is not fir that I complain when I feel that somebody is abusing when they decrees the quality of a product? For example, in IOs 5, the typing emails or typing text messages, wasn't a problem, in IOs 6 either, but now in IOs 7 is very difficult. If not every body is getting the same problem, it doesn't mean that is not enough people getting the problem. I have seen this kind of complain in the list, several times. It was happening in the previous versions of IOs? No, it didn't. Now VO says after the screen is locked, Screen lockedand seconds or minutes later, VO repeats the message. It happened before? No, it didn't. When we receive a call, is easy to find the end button? is easy to finish the phone call? No, it is not, is not one people getting this problem, is a lot of people saying the same thing. It happened before? No, it didn't. Field a text box in a web site, is difficult, or some times impossible. If you don't do it, it doesn't means that it is not a bug. It means that you don't field text fields on web sites, it is all. It happened before? No, it didn't. Now when we are reading the list of emails, or what ever list of content, voice over jumps every where, and we have to cross the whole list of content again to find where we were before VO jump out. it happened before? No, it didn't. Now, if we are playing a song, or audio book, or what ever kind of media, and we press the power button, VO says the track position. Before VO said the time. Now VO says the track position. It happened before? No, it didn't. I have taken the situation when VO stop talking, my phone is in silence for seconds, or minutes. Some times I have to turn off my phone, guessing pressing the power button for 10 seconds, and making a double tab on the screen, or just holding the power button for more than 10 seconds. What is happening? No body knows, but I am looking emails of people who is getting pretty similar problems. it happened before? No, it didn't! How many, no, It didn't, you want Sieghard? . I understand that VO included new things in IOs 7, but why they have to break things that were working well before? In my opinion, apple didn't care every detail in this last IOs. Now, I am talking about the problems with VO, and are so much more problems that are not in this email. But add to this list the problems that people who is not voice over user is getting? I am not saying that apple is not a good product. It is the better product right now. But they are not taking care of details, as they have done before. While Sangsum is improving and doing better phones every day, apple is not doing a good effort in this issue. So I am not talking about hardware, I am talking about IOs developers. In the last 2 versions of IOs, they included new things, but they broke things that were working well before. One more thing, today we are in November 10, 2013. In one more year, you will see that we will be talking about new bugs, in the new IOs, and the bugs and problems that we are getting now, will not be fixed all of them when the new Ios comes, even though we will have to start, to restart again, with new bugs, and never we will be happy, because every year, they have a new IOs, and we have to restart the hard process of report bugs, bugs that some will be fix, but other never will be fix. So Sieghard. In my opinion again. Apple makes great phones, but I can not say the same thing of the last IOs that I have seen. Remember Sieghard. I am very interested in a iPhone or an iPad
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
Well, it is a bug. If technically or mystery voice over is working differently, is a bug. Bug means something that makes that the machine, or process, or OS, doesn't work like should be doing. If it is a hardware problem, a new thing or IOs, it is not working like should be. And apple has to fix it. - Original Message - From: David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 8:45 PM Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Pablo, Your problem with typing using the onscreen keyboard, which a few people are experiencing is caused by the following. Technically, it is not a bug. It is a different way that VO is interacting with the various elements of the screen, and requires some retraining to work with effectively. Previous to iOS 7, when a person is typing on the onscreen keyboard, moving above the keyboard into the text field of the screen had a small delay before triggering. This meant, when you accidentally moved above the keyboard, this delay kept the edit field from tracking your touch and moving the cursor to your finger. Now, the off keyboard delay has been removed, so when you move your finger above the keyboard and hesitate, VO jumps the writing cursor to the actual position of your finger. I say this is not a bug because it is actually quite convenient when working in a form in a notes or editing app. It is not, as you have stated multiple times, VO jumping randomly around the page. If you calm down rather than being frustrated when it happens, you will easily spot the pattern and can fairly easily move the cursor back to where you want it. However, if you train yourself to not hesitate / stop movement of your finger when it drifts above the keyboard, you will not experience this particular situation. And, if you word your emails to Apple such that they actually explain what is going on, they can adjust the situation for a future release if necessary. Oh, and what determines necessary? That seems obvious, receiving emails from different people expressing the same difficulty in an easy to understand way which explains the problem rather than just ranting about how the product no longer works. As to whether the situation will be corrected quickly depends on a multitude of factors of which none of us are aware. I used to work in alpha and beta testing, and I can assure you that many a seemingly simple fix can, and often does, change / create other bugs across the system. This always happens in complex systems, and iOS is definitely a complex system with a great many features. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 11 Nov 2013, at 12:41, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: Sieghard, what are you talking about? So for you is not fir that I complain when I feel that somebody is abusing when they decrees the quality of a product? For example, in IOs 5, the typing emails or typing text messages, wasn't a problem, in IOs 6 either, but now in IOs 7 is very difficult. If not every body is getting the same problem, it doesn't mean that is not enough people getting the problem. I have seen this kind of complain in the list, several times. It was happening in the previous versions of IOs? No, it didn't. Now VO says after the screen is locked, Screen lockedand seconds or minutes later, VO repeats the message. It happened before? No, it didn't. When we receive a call, is easy to find the end button? is easy to finish the phone call? No, it is not, is not one people getting this problem, is a lot of people saying the same thing. It happened before? No, it didn't. Field a text box in a web site, is difficult, or some times impossible. If you don't do it, it doesn't means that it is not a bug. It means that you don't field text fields on web sites, it is all. It happened before? No, it didn't. Now when we are reading the list of emails, or what ever list of content, voice over jumps every where, and we have to cross the whole list of content again to find where we were before VO jump out. it happened before? No, it didn't. Now, if we are playing a song, or audio book, or what ever kind of media, and we press the power button, VO says the track position. Before VO said the time. Now VO says the track position. It happened before? No, it didn't. I have taken the situation when VO stop talking, my phone is in silence for seconds, or minutes. Some times I have to turn off my phone, guessing pressing the power button for 10 seconds, and making a double tab on the screen, or just holding the power button for more than 10 seconds. What is happening? No body knows, but I am looking emails of people who is getting pretty similar problems. it happened before? No, it didn't! How many, no, It didn't, you want Sieghard? . I understand that VO included new things in IOs 7, but why they have to break things
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
Well, apple accessibility has a different opinion than you. They recognize that it should read the time. The people normally look the time more often than when they want to know the track position. Sorry again man. But apple responded to me, that they are going to fix it, and they are apologized about it. - Original Message - From: David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 8:58 PM Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Pablo, VO announcing the track position rather than the time is a new feature, not a bug. When an audio track is playing, the lock screen now displays the audio player screen rather than the normal unlock screen. If you would rather the normal unlock screen was displayed, send an email to Apple about it. However, this is not a bug! In fact, I am willing to bet that many people sent Apple complaints because the audio player did not automatically come up when they first opened the lock screen. If that is the case, I seriously doubt your message will cause Apple to change back to the previous system. After all, how often do the majority of users activate the lock screen to manipulate their audio playback compared with how many do so to check the time. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 11 Nov 2013, at 12:41, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: Sieghard, what are you talking about? So for you is not fir that I complain when I feel that somebody is abusing when they decrees the quality of a product? For example, in IOs 5, the typing emails or typing text messages, wasn't a problem, in IOs 6 either, but now in IOs 7 is very difficult. If not every body is getting the same problem, it doesn't mean that is not enough people getting the problem. I have seen this kind of complain in the list, several times. It was happening in the previous versions of IOs? No, it didn't. Now VO says after the screen is locked, Screen lockedand seconds or minutes later, VO repeats the message. It happened before? No, it didn't. When we receive a call, is easy to find the end button? is easy to finish the phone call? No, it is not, is not one people getting this problem, is a lot of people saying the same thing. It happened before? No, it didn't. Field a text box in a web site, is difficult, or some times impossible. If you don't do it, it doesn't means that it is not a bug. It means that you don't field text fields on web sites, it is all. It happened before? No, it didn't. Now when we are reading the list of emails, or what ever list of content, voice over jumps every where, and we have to cross the whole list of content again to find where we were before VO jump out. it happened before? No, it didn't. Now, if we are playing a song, or audio book, or what ever kind of media, and we press the power button, VO says the track position. Before VO said the time. Now VO says the track position. It happened before? No, it didn't. I have taken the situation when VO stop talking, my phone is in silence for seconds, or minutes. Some times I have to turn off my phone, guessing pressing the power button for 10 seconds, and making a double tab on the screen, or just holding the power button for more than 10 seconds. What is happening? No body knows, but I am looking emails of people who is getting pretty similar problems. it happened before? No, it didn't! How many, no, It didn't, you want Sieghard? . I understand that VO included new things in IOs 7, but why they have to break things that were working well before? In my opinion, apple didn't care every detail in this last IOs. Now, I am talking about the problems with VO, and are so much more problems that are not in this email. But add to this list the problems that people who is not voice over user is getting? I am not saying that apple is not a good product. It is the better product right now. But they are not taking care of details, as they have done before. While Sangsum is improving and doing better phones every day, apple is not doing a good effort in this issue. So I am not talking about hardware, I am talking about IOs developers. In the last 2 versions of IOs, they included new things, but they broke things that were working well before. One more thing, today we are in November 10, 2013. In one more year, you will see that we will be talking about new bugs, in the new IOs, and the bugs and problems that we are getting now, will not be fixed all of them when the new Ios comes, even though we will have to start, to restart again, with new bugs, and never we will be happy, because every year, they have a new IOs, and we have to restart the hard process of report bugs, bugs that some will be fix, but other never will be fix. So Sieghard. In my opinion again. Apple makes great phones, but I can not say the same thing of the last IOs that I have
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
Sieghard. the improvements are cool, but we can not justify the bad things, with the good things. It is mediocrity. Why I said so? Because the problems are with things that were working fine before, but no now. If the bugs are just with the new things, ok, it is understandable, but with things that worked fine before? No man, it is not well. Again, I don't want to bring apple to the bank broken. I want that they improve every day, and it means with the new things, but with the old things also. If I like iPhone? I love it. If I love the new things? I love it. But I can't be happy with the issues that worked fine before, and now are not like that. I am asking too much to apple? Well, I am paying too much also. - Original Message - From: Sieghard Weitzel siegh...@live.ca To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 9:53 PM Subject: RE: When will Apple take this seriously? Pablo, I just don't understand some of the complaints. I don't see a difference in the location of the End button when I'm on a phone call, it's still right there at the bottom of the screen. Then there are little things like Voiceover saying Screene Locked a second time, I mean, really, so what. What about all the improvements? All some people do is complain but they forget to recognize the good things. What about the handwriting feature which is awesome for quickly finding apps? What about SIRI which works better now than ever? What about the new 2-finger quadruple tap to copy the last spoken text which I use quite often and find great? What about Facetime Audio, I think it's awesome. What about little fixes like Voiceovover not losing focus when I am in email 53 of my Inbox and back out where it now stays on email 53 instead of going back to email 1? This, by the way, I remember you complained about bitterly when iOS 6 was released and this was introduced. What about the fantastic support for hearing aids, not something that is mentioned that often on this list even though I know some Viphone members have significant hearing loss and for them this is more revolutionary than evolutionary. These are just a few examples, some are general features and some are accessibility related. Pablo, I am not saying it's all peaches and cream, there are bugs, there always were bugs and there always will be bugs. In the meantime I love what I can do with my iPhone, the access to apps and information it gives me. I prefer to send the occasional email to the accessibility team if I am sure I found something that truly doesn't work and which isn't working because I am not paying attention because I know that Apple is committed to improving accessibility even if apparently you feel it's worse than ever. Maybe you should look for an iPhone 3GS running iOS 5 or iOS 6 on eBay so you can have the experience you seem to be missing. Happy tapping, Sieghard -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pablo Morales Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 3:41 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Sieghard, what are you talking about? So for you is not fir that I complain when I feel that somebody is abusing when they decrees the quality of a product? For example, in IOs 5, the typing emails or typing text messages, wasn't a problem, in IOs 6 either, but now in IOs 7 is very difficult. If not every body is getting the same problem, it doesn't mean that is not enough people getting the problem. I have seen this kind of complain in the list, several times. It was happening in the previous versions of IOs? No, it didn't. Now VO says after the screen is locked, Screen lockedand seconds or minutes later, VO repeats the message. It happened before? No, it didn't. When we receive a call, is easy to find the end button? is easy to finish the phone call? No, it is not, is not one people getting this problem, is a lot of people saying the same thing. It happened before? No, it didn't. Field a text box in a web site, is difficult, or some times impossible. If you don't do it, it doesn't means that it is not a bug. It means that you don't field text fields on web sites, it is all. It happened before? No, it didn't. Now when we are reading the list of emails, or what ever list of content, voice over jumps every where, and we have to cross the whole list of content again to find where we were before VO jump out. it happened before? No, it didn't. Now, if we are playing a song, or audio book, or what ever kind of media, and we press the power button, VO says the track position. Before VO said the time. Now VO says the track position. It happened before? No, it didn't. I have taken the situation when VO stop talking, my phone is in silence for seconds, or minutes. Some times I have to turn off my phone, guessing pressing the power button for 10 seconds, and making a double tab on the screen, or just holding
RE: When will Apple take this seriously?
That and one can always try their hand at all the other VI friendly mobile operating systems out there like Windows mobile phone, Firefox OS, Blackberry and so on Oh wait, that's right. Those other OS's aren't even anywhere close in regards to accessibility when compared to what Apple's done in the past few years. An argument may be made for the latest and greatest Android, but for my money, I'm still more than happy to work within the iOS ecosystem. Feature phones? No thanks, I'll pass on those devices as well. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Diakogeorgiou Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 7:18 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? I think that Sieghard put it well. I am very tired of listening to people complaining about their phones and the problems they are having. If you are so unhappy with Apple or your IPhone sell it and buy an android phone. For the vast majority of the blind people using this technology it works quite well. Yes their are bugs but they exist with all technology products. At least with the IPhone we have the option to upgrade when a new version of their software comes out. We are not at the mercy of the phone carriers or manufacturers as to whether they will let us upgrade. All in all this technology works well. It has provided us the ability to do much more with our phones than we thought possible just a few short years ago. On 11/10/13, David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you for that summary. I just started reading this thread. The only point I can confirm is item 3. VO has a difficult time tracking in Safari when filling out complex forms. To be fair, many of the forms VO struggles with are also extremely difficult on the computer. They have quite a bit to do with newer web technologies. Other places where VO struggles appear to not move the visual page on the display as one flicks through the form using right flicks. When the button or edit box is not on the visual screen, it will not activate with a double or even, triple tap. However, there is a work-around that works for most websites I have tried. Physically find the edit field and hold your finger on it. This locks it on the visual display. Split-tap with another finger and the edit box is locked in with the keyboard. Because of rapid screen refreshes, it may be impossible to then flick to the next edit field. In this case, locate the done button above the o and p letters on the keyboard and double-tap it. This releases the edit field and one can now locate the next edit field. Follow the same procedure. When finished with the form, locate the continue, submit, or otherly worded button and split-tap it. again, as I previously stated, because of the newer web technologies, many of these complex new web technologies are also complicated, if not impossible, for computer-based screen readers. In Apple's favour, I have been able to access some forms on my iPhone using the above procedure, which people on certain lists have stated that Jaws cannot access on Windows and IE 10. As for Talks and Nokia, the person can always go to the newest Windows Mobile phone and get the latest Mobile Speak for it. This is a specifically written app with six features in it. Nothing else can be accessed on the phone, so it will be very similar to the old Nokia with Talks. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 11 Nov 2013, at 10:13, Sieghard Weitzel siegh...@live.ca wrote: Hello, Here is my summary of this entire thread: The original poster complained about 3 items and pointed out a fourth: 1. Hanging up phone calls is unreliable 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to contacts 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. Then Pablo jumped in with his well-known rant about how horrible Apple is in general because they make such expensive and terrible devices which don't work, where people are forced to upgrade to iOS 7 and where generally accessibility is terrible and where Pablo's rights are violated in a number of ways. As for Pablo's arguments, I have actually agreed with him in a very general way that Apple should give people the option to say if they wanted a new iOS to download automatically or not. At first I didn't see his point, but he argued this point well and I agree there should be such an option. However, this is in my view the only issue. Apple is not forcing anybody to upgrade to iOS 7. Yes, they are pushing the update and it takes up space on your phone, but you do not have to install it and I'll challenge anybody who says that iOS 7 magically installed on their phone without them doing anything or twice agreeing to the terms and conditions which simply does
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
Well, consider that this specific problem started when Apple added the app switcher and the ability for more than one app to run at a time on the iPhone. So yes, the ability to automatically restart VO when memory overloads is a key feature improvement. It did not usually happen on Windows back when I was using Windows with Jaws. Considering this was in 2011, I do not know how things have changed since that time. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 11 Nov 2013, at 16:08, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: wow, very convenient when we are using the gps, or when we are writing an email, or looking a phone number. Very nice. Now I have a better opinion of apple hardware. - Original Message - From: David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 9:13 PM Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Pablo, The occasional occurrences of VO suddenly becoming silent for a little while appears to be iOS resetting its memory. In most cases, if you wait 15 to 30 seconds, VO comes back on and says Voice Over Ready. This means, VO had to be restarted. I remember when iOS 6 came out and VO would sometimes crash. Apple has improved the system now such that, when VO crashes, for what ever reason, it automatically restarts if you leave the system alone for a little while. Why is leaving the system alone so important? A sighted friend explained it to me. In iOS hierarchy, touching the screen takes precedence over almost every other task. Therefore, when you start touching and moving your finger around the nonresponsive screen, this distracts iOS and may block VO from restarting; thereby necessitating rebooting your iPhone. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 11 Nov 2013, at 12:41, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: Sieghard, what are you talking about? So for you is not fir that I complain when I feel that somebody is abusing when they decrees the quality of a product? For example, in IOs 5, the typing emails or typing text messages, wasn't a problem, in IOs 6 either, but now in IOs 7 is very difficult. If not every body is getting the same problem, it doesn't mean that is not enough people getting the problem. I have seen this kind of complain in the list, several times. It was happening in the previous versions of IOs? No, it didn't. Now VO says after the screen is locked, Screen lockedand seconds or minutes later, VO repeats the message. It happened before? No, it didn't. When we receive a call, is easy to find the end button? is easy to finish the phone call? No, it is not, is not one people getting this problem, is a lot of people saying the same thing. It happened before? No, it didn't. Field a text box in a web site, is difficult, or some times impossible. If you don't do it, it doesn't means that it is not a bug. It means that you don't field text fields on web sites, it is all. It happened before? No, it didn't. Now when we are reading the list of emails, or what ever list of content, voice over jumps every where, and we have to cross the whole list of content again to find where we were before VO jump out. it happened before? No, it didn't. Now, if we are playing a song, or audio book, or what ever kind of media, and we press the power button, VO says the track position. Before VO said the time. Now VO says the track position. It happened before? No, it didn't. I have taken the situation when VO stop talking, my phone is in silence for seconds, or minutes. Some times I have to turn off my phone, guessing pressing the power button for 10 seconds, and making a double tab on the screen, or just holding the power button for more than 10 seconds. What is happening? No body knows, but I am looking emails of people who is getting pretty similar problems. it happened before? No, it didn't! How many, no, It didn't, you want Sieghard? . I understand that VO included new things in IOs 7, but why they have to break things that were working well before? In my opinion, apple didn't care every detail in this last IOs. Now, I am talking about the problems with VO, and are so much more problems that are not in this email. But add to this list the problems that people who is not voice over user is getting? I am not saying that apple is not a good product. It is the better product right now. But they are not taking care of details, as they have done before. While Sangsum is improving and doing better phones every day, apple is not doing a good effort in this issue. So I am not talking about hardware, I am talking about IOs developers. In the last 2 versions of IOs, they included new things, but they broke things that were working well before. One more thing, today we
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
VO has always jumped to the back button since at least iOS 6, if not iOS 5, whenever an email message is opened. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 11 Nov 2013, at 16:12, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: No David, sorry, but you are wrong. When an email comes, is normal that the cursor of VO find the first email on the list. It is the way how the IOs handle the order of emails to show. But I am not talking that when comes an email, VO jump to the first email. Normally it jump to the side of the screen that says, updated just now.. it is not in the list of emails, because of that, I have to find the email where I was before. Sorry big guy, but I am not talking about that. More over, when I have a list of content, VO jumps to the top of the list, or to the tag coming back, or to any button on the screen. For example in Settings, VO jumps to the header settings, or where ever is, to the tag that says back. And here are not coming emails. Sorry my friend, I am not trying to just be against you, just your point is not my point. , - Original Message - From: David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 9:05 PM Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Pablo, The email tracking bug is definitely annoying. Have you figured out what it actually does, or do you believe it just jumps VO all over the place. If the latter, Apple may not understand what you mean when you tell them because they may not be able to reproduce what you say. In that spirit, here is what is actually happening. When mail goes to the server to get the latest messages, if one is reading a message that happens to be in a thread, iOS actually jumps to another message in the thread. Now, I have read some messages that Apple has pinpointed this bug in mail, and that it is exclusive to gmail accounts. If you have a gmail account and this is where the problem is occurring, Apple is working on it. If you have a different account provider and this problem is occurring, notify Apple because the reports stated this particular bug which I spelled out is specific to gmail. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 11 Nov 2013, at 12:41, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: Sieghard, what are you talking about? So for you is not fir that I complain when I feel that somebody is abusing when they decrees the quality of a product? For example, in IOs 5, the typing emails or typing text messages, wasn't a problem, in IOs 6 either, but now in IOs 7 is very difficult. If not every body is getting the same problem, it doesn't mean that is not enough people getting the problem. I have seen this kind of complain in the list, several times. It was happening in the previous versions of IOs? No, it didn't. Now VO says after the screen is locked, Screen lockedand seconds or minutes later, VO repeats the message. It happened before? No, it didn't. When we receive a call, is easy to find the end button? is easy to finish the phone call? No, it is not, is not one people getting this problem, is a lot of people saying the same thing. It happened before? No, it didn't. Field a text box in a web site, is difficult, or some times impossible. If you don't do it, it doesn't means that it is not a bug. It means that you don't field text fields on web sites, it is all. It happened before? No, it didn't. Now when we are reading the list of emails, or what ever list of content, voice over jumps every where, and we have to cross the whole list of content again to find where we were before VO jump out. it happened before? No, it didn't. Now, if we are playing a song, or audio book, or what ever kind of media, and we press the power button, VO says the track position. Before VO said the time. Now VO says the track position. It happened before? No, it didn't. I have taken the situation when VO stop talking, my phone is in silence for seconds, or minutes. Some times I have to turn off my phone, guessing pressing the power button for 10 seconds, and making a double tab on the screen, or just holding the power button for more than 10 seconds. What is happening? No body knows, but I am looking emails of people who is getting pretty similar problems. it happened before? No, it didn't! How many, no, It didn't, you want Sieghard? . I understand that VO included new things in IOs 7, but why they have to break things that were working well before? In my opinion, apple didn't care every detail in this last IOs. Now, I am talking about the problems with VO, and are so much more problems that are not in this email. But add to this list the problems that people who is not voice over user is getting? I am not saying that apple
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
That is good to hear. I doubt if Apple will change the screen from the audio player, however, considering that they made the change to the audio player because of many user comments. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 11 Nov 2013, at 16:14, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: Well, apple accessibility has a different opinion than you. They recognize that it should read the time. The people normally look the time more often than when they want to know the track position. Sorry again man. But apple responded to me, that they are going to fix it, and they are apologized about it. - Original Message - From: David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 8:58 PM Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Pablo, VO announcing the track position rather than the time is a new feature, not a bug. When an audio track is playing, the lock screen now displays the audio player screen rather than the normal unlock screen. If you would rather the normal unlock screen was displayed, send an email to Apple about it. However, this is not a bug! In fact, I am willing to bet that many people sent Apple complaints because the audio player did not automatically come up when they first opened the lock screen. If that is the case, I seriously doubt your message will cause Apple to change back to the previous system. After all, how often do the majority of users activate the lock screen to manipulate their audio playback compared with how many do so to check the time. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 11 Nov 2013, at 12:41, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: Sieghard, what are you talking about? So for you is not fir that I complain when I feel that somebody is abusing when they decrees the quality of a product? For example, in IOs 5, the typing emails or typing text messages, wasn't a problem, in IOs 6 either, but now in IOs 7 is very difficult. If not every body is getting the same problem, it doesn't mean that is not enough people getting the problem. I have seen this kind of complain in the list, several times. It was happening in the previous versions of IOs? No, it didn't. Now VO says after the screen is locked, Screen lockedand seconds or minutes later, VO repeats the message. It happened before? No, it didn't. When we receive a call, is easy to find the end button? is easy to finish the phone call? No, it is not, is not one people getting this problem, is a lot of people saying the same thing. It happened before? No, it didn't. Field a text box in a web site, is difficult, or some times impossible. If you don't do it, it doesn't means that it is not a bug. It means that you don't field text fields on web sites, it is all. It happened before? No, it didn't. Now when we are reading the list of emails, or what ever list of content, voice over jumps every where, and we have to cross the whole list of content again to find where we were before VO jump out. it happened before? No, it didn't. Now, if we are playing a song, or audio book, or what ever kind of media, and we press the power button, VO says the track position. Before VO said the time. Now VO says the track position. It happened before? No, it didn't. I have taken the situation when VO stop talking, my phone is in silence for seconds, or minutes. Some times I have to turn off my phone, guessing pressing the power button for 10 seconds, and making a double tab on the screen, or just holding the power button for more than 10 seconds. What is happening? No body knows, but I am looking emails of people who is getting pretty similar problems. it happened before? No, it didn't! How many, no, It didn't, you want Sieghard? . I understand that VO included new things in IOs 7, but why they have to break things that were working well before? In my opinion, apple didn't care every detail in this last IOs. Now, I am talking about the problems with VO, and are so much more problems that are not in this email. But add to this list the problems that people who is not voice over user is getting? I am not saying that apple is not a good product. It is the better product right now. But they are not taking care of details, as they have done before. While Sangsum is improving and doing better phones every day, apple is not doing a good effort in this issue. So I am not talking about hardware, I am talking about IOs developers. In the last 2 versions of IOs, they included new things, but they broke things that were working well before. One more thing, today we are in November 10, 2013. In one more year, you will see that we will be talking about new bugs, in the new IOs, and the bugs and problems that we
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
Since I was unable to communicate the concept clearly enough, I will leave it alone. As to your comments about Android, Apple continues to beat the records that Apple sets. The only Android mobile phone line that reports profitability is Samsung, if I am remembering correctly. Even though many more Android tablets are reportedly sold now, iPads surf the internet 89% of the time. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 11 Nov 2013, at 16:26, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: David, how this double announcement helped me to detect that problem? Sorry man, I can't follow you. In my opinion, it is a way to justify a bug. Remember David, been happy with every thing is not a solution. Apple needs to work on this issues, and over every thing, learn about every bug. I didn't write to apple about it, but I want to see if they will give me the same answer that you are giving me. I don't think that I am hurting apple saying what is working wrong, and how it worked before, and how it is working now. I think that if they work on this, IOs will be better. Look android, it is much better than IOs. We prefer to use IOs, because of Voice Over. But android is much better. Why you think that apple is losing market? Google is learning, and making a lot of effort in fix their problems. So I think that if we make pressure on apple, telling them, hey guys, it is not well, fix it. We will help apple, and help our self, because voice over is better than talk back or what ever other mobil screen reader. Sorry again David, but I can't see your point on this point. How the doble screen locked helped me? - Original Message - From: David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 8:52 PM Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Pablo, At an educated guess after observing the double announcement of screen lock, it looks like screen lock announcement is being triggered every time iOS drops into a further sleep mode. In your case, it actually helped you diagnose a problem a few weeks ago where an app, or a glitch (I do not remember which), was waking your iPhone just enough to take a picture. In fact, it was your report of this that caused me to think about what was occurring and find some ways to test it. So, you can give your phone an instruction which causes it to perform higher functioning for longer and lock the screen. The second screen lock announcement doesn't occur until after more time has elapsed. Annoying, yes, sometimes. As nasty of an effect on people as the severe motion sickness was on some people caused by Apple's cool new visual parallax effect which they corrected in the second update, not hardly. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 11 Nov 2013, at 12:41, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: Sieghard, what are you talking about? So for you is not fir that I complain when I feel that somebody is abusing when they decrees the quality of a product? For example, in IOs 5, the typing emails or typing text messages, wasn't a problem, in IOs 6 either, but now in IOs 7 is very difficult. If not every body is getting the same problem, it doesn't mean that is not enough people getting the problem. I have seen this kind of complain in the list, several times. It was happening in the previous versions of IOs? No, it didn't. Now VO says after the screen is locked, Screen lockedand seconds or minutes later, VO repeats the message. It happened before? No, it didn't. When we receive a call, is easy to find the end button? is easy to finish the phone call? No, it is not, is not one people getting this problem, is a lot of people saying the same thing. It happened before? No, it didn't. Field a text box in a web site, is difficult, or some times impossible. If you don't do it, it doesn't means that it is not a bug. It means that you don't field text fields on web sites, it is all. It happened before? No, it didn't. Now when we are reading the list of emails, or what ever list of content, voice over jumps every where, and we have to cross the whole list of content again to find where we were before VO jump out. it happened before? No, it didn't. Now, if we are playing a song, or audio book, or what ever kind of media, and we press the power button, VO says the track position. Before VO said the time. Now VO says the track position. It happened before? No, it didn't. I have taken the situation when VO stop talking, my phone is in silence for seconds, or minutes. Some times I have to turn off my phone, guessing pressing the power button for 10 seconds, and making a double tab on the screen, or just holding the power button for more than 10 seconds. What is happening? No body
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
am the owner of those devices. The difference is that I want that apple makes a better effort developing operated system. Our pressure to apple will be good for us, and for apple also. When you make pressure on somebody, you make that person stronger. When you make pressure on apple to fix these silly things that before didn't work bad, but now are not working well, it will make apple stronger. not Sangsum, not Sony, not Panasonic. Apple needs to do a best effort with this issue. It is for apple, more than for us. - Original Message - From: Sieghard Weitzel siegh...@live.ca To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 4:13 PM Subject: RE: When will Apple take this seriously? Hello, Here is my summary of this entire thread: The original poster complained about 3 items and pointed out a fourth: 1. Hanging up phone calls is unreliable 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to contacts 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. Then Pablo jumped in with his well-known rant about how horrible Apple is in general because they make such expensive and terrible devices which don't work, where people are forced to upgrade to iOS 7 and where generally accessibility is terrible and where Pablo's rights are violated in a number of ways. As for Pablo's arguments, I have actually agreed with him in a very general way that Apple should give people the option to say if they wanted a new iOS to download automatically or not. At first I didn't see his point, but he argued this point well and I agree there should be such an option. However, this is in my view the only issue. Apple is not forcing anybody to upgrade to iOS 7. Yes, they are pushing the update and it takes up space on your phone, but you do not have to install it and I'll challenge anybody who says that iOS 7 magically installed on their phone without them doing anything or twice agreeing to the terms and conditions which simply does not happen. If Apple were to allow down the road that one could turn off the automatic downloading then nobody including Pablo could complain in any way because at that point if they upgrade it is entirely their choice. It's already their choice, but let's say somebody has an 8 Gb phone and they really need to free up that space so they install it, that is just a little big of pressure there even though you still decide to put up with iOS 7 in return for getting back 2 Gb of space on your phone. Now, as to the 4 items above: 1. Hanging up calls is unreliable I actually find the 2-finger double tap works better in iOS 7 but that is just my opinion. I think it's pretty safe to say though that it works at least as well and I have up to this point and it's now 2 months since iOS 7 was released, not seen a single post where somebody asked about or mentioned a problem with the 2-finger double tap to hang up. There is of course the other way to hang up a call which works 100% and that is to touch the End Cal lbutton which is really not hard to find as it's right there about the ome Key and to double tap it. As somebody else pointed out, it's not hard to check whether a call was hung up or is still connected. 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to contacts This works flawlessly for me and judging by what others wrote also for them. A simple double tap on a phone number asks me whether I want to call it, a double tap and hold brings up the options to call, add to contacts etc. I'd really like to see how this isn't working on Avnish's phone who I think was the one who posted that all of this didn't work. 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. This one I understand is an issue, I can't comment too much on it since I don't use Safari much to fill out web forms. I have done a few Google searches andwas able to type in a search term just find, the same on the Audible site. Anyhow, if it is buggy then I sure hope those who find this so horrible have written to Apple about it. To me this is like voting. If I talk to somebody about politics and they start a big rant about the government I usually ask first if they voted in the last election. More than once somebody said that they don't vote in which case I usually tell them that they might as well shut up then because if they don't participate in electing the government then they have no right to complain. I am not saying Avnish hasn't written to Apple to explain places where encounters problems, but I see a lot of this on the list and I wonder if everybody also takes the time to compose a constructive email to accessibil...@apple.com to make sure they know about the issues. 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. Well, what can I say, Ricardo already said it. Talks has been gone for some time and no Nokia phone
Re: When will Apple take this seriously?
I think he just wants to bitch for bitching sakes. I’m done watching this thread. Hope I don’t miss anything important that I might like to know or didn’t even think of. May and Prince Noah www.canadianlynx.ca On Nov 10, 2013, at 10:08 PM, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: wow, very convenient when we are using the gps, or when we are writing an email, or looking a phone number. Very nice. Now I have a better opinion of apple hardware. - Original Message - From: David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 9:13 PM Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? Pablo, The occasional occurrences of VO suddenly becoming silent for a little while appears to be iOS resetting its memory. In most cases, if you wait 15 to 30 seconds, VO comes back on and says Voice Over Ready. This means, VO had to be restarted. I remember when iOS 6 came out and VO would sometimes crash. Apple has improved the system now such that, when VO crashes, for what ever reason, it automatically restarts if you leave the system alone for a little while. Why is leaving the system alone so important? A sighted friend explained it to me. In iOS hierarchy, touching the screen takes precedence over almost every other task. Therefore, when you start touching and moving your finger around the nonresponsive screen, this distracts iOS and may block VO from restarting; thereby necessitating rebooting your iPhone. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 11 Nov 2013, at 12:41, Pablo Morales pablomorale...@gmail.com wrote: Sieghard, what are you talking about? So for you is not fir that I complain when I feel that somebody is abusing when they decrees the quality of a product? For example, in IOs 5, the typing emails or typing text messages, wasn't a problem, in IOs 6 either, but now in IOs 7 is very difficult. If not every body is getting the same problem, it doesn't mean that is not enough people getting the problem. I have seen this kind of complain in the list, several times. It was happening in the previous versions of IOs? No, it didn't. Now VO says after the screen is locked, Screen lockedand seconds or minutes later, VO repeats the message. It happened before? No, it didn't. When we receive a call, is easy to find the end button? is easy to finish the phone call? No, it is not, is not one people getting this problem, is a lot of people saying the same thing. It happened before? No, it didn't. Field a text box in a web site, is difficult, or some times impossible. If you don't do it, it doesn't means that it is not a bug. It means that you don't field text fields on web sites, it is all. It happened before? No, it didn't. Now when we are reading the list of emails, or what ever list of content, voice over jumps every where, and we have to cross the whole list of content again to find where we were before VO jump out. it happened before? No, it didn't. Now, if we are playing a song, or audio book, or what ever kind of media, and we press the power button, VO says the track position. Before VO said the time. Now VO says the track position. It happened before? No, it didn't. I have taken the situation when VO stop talking, my phone is in silence for seconds, or minutes. Some times I have to turn off my phone, guessing pressing the power button for 10 seconds, and making a double tab on the screen, or just holding the power button for more than 10 seconds. What is happening? No body knows, but I am looking emails of people who is getting pretty similar problems. it happened before? No, it didn't! How many, no, It didn't, you want Sieghard? . I understand that VO included new things in IOs 7, but why they have to break things that were working well before? In my opinion, apple didn't care every detail in this last IOs. Now, I am talking about the problems with VO, and are so much more problems that are not in this email. But add to this list the problems that people who is not voice over user is getting? I am not saying that apple is not a good product. It is the better product right now. But they are not taking care of details, as they have done before. While Sangsum is improving and doing better phones every day, apple is not doing a good effort in this issue. So I am not talking about hardware, I am talking about IOs developers. In the last 2 versions of IOs, they included new things, but they broke things that were working well before. One more thing, today we are in November 10, 2013. In one more year, you will see that we will be talking about new bugs, in the new IOs, and the bugs and problems that we are getting now, will not be fixed all of them when the new Ios comes, even though we will have to start, to restart again, with new bugs, and never we
