Re: Training Centers
It's quite possible for any organization to have good individual survices but a less good over all ethos. For example I've mentioned how bloody annoying the RNIB is over here, accept that they do fund the audio description service for tv and have run some fairly successful p
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Well said. I vaguely recall my brother being offered NFB scholarships several years ago, which he rejected. Some of the NFB's tactics are certainly not to be taken lightly. I too, have met and heard about a few level-headed Federationists but it seems the majority of them ar
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Well said Turtlepower. I have even less respect for Cristianity than I do for the NFB and its philosophies, and the wa a lot of people preach te NFB mentality it might as well be an established religion. Yes I have met perfectly well-balanced, reasonable NFB members but they
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Well, that's just it. I think that, far too often, people join the NFB seeking to fill a void in their lives. Don't misunderstand me here; the NFB isn't to blame for this, human psychology is. People join churches for the same reason. Then they devote their entire lives to t
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@BryanPI'm sure glad you used the words "often happens" in your post, and I hope you genuinely meant it as not applying to everyone. I think it's possible to belong to a blindness organization like the NFB and be a normal well-adjusted individual.I'm sorry the blind people i
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Yep, that's it. I don't necessarily think that it's a bad thing that it exists, for those who need it, but I can also kind of se how people in your state might direct you there if you ask for any kind of blindness-related services, and that can't be a good thing. As I said,
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I've heard of the place to which you refer here, and I have a friend who lives there. She seems to like it there pretty much. It is called Friedman Place, or Freedman Place. I forget which spelling they use. But anyway, I actually met one of the staff members there several y
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that sort of institutionalized living for blind people does sound a little scary really, rather too much like an extention of specialized schools, especially if you don't actually take care of things like cooking yourself. Generally in Britain there are three specific sorts
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Glad I don't live in Illinois then. But those closed-minded individuals are precisely why I don't have many blind friends in my day-to-day offline life.Idaho in particular seems to be a hotbed of blind folks who expect the sighted world to cater to their every need, regardle
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that sort of institutionalized living for blind people does sound a little scary really, rather too much like an extention of specialized schools, especially if you don't actually take care of things like cooking yourself. Generally in Britain there are three specific sorts
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I've heard about the high rate of institutionalizing in Illinois. It's a shame, really, but it makes sense. I think it's because it's one of the few states that actually has an apartment complex specifically for the blind, and, if you live there, you don't even have kitchen
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Hi everyone. This topic about training centers, O&M instruction and such has gotten me curious about something. I guess I actually have 2 questions here. First of all, for those of you who have been denied formal O&M instruction by your respective state VR agencies, what if
Re: Training Centers
Well I can't say anything about agencies in the Us, but on the instructional point as a general rule, I've generally found myself the more flexible an instructor is to teaching something and the less they are bound by automatically applying one technique or standard and are
Re: Training Centers
Hi everyone. This topic about training centers, O&M instruction and such has gotten me curious about something. I guess I actually have 2 questions here. First of all, for those of you who have been denied formal O&M instruction by your respective state VR agencies, what if
Re: Training Centers
My DSB counselor brought up a good point when I mentioned that I'm probably switching from training centers to college: the 5 months between now and the start of the next term.Unfortunately, the DST program at WSB doesn't open to new clients again until June, so it seems I'l
Re: Training Centers
I've been using the term Joke Rehab for quite a few years now since it pretty much describes most suc agencies I've observed. Even those individual counselors who actually care what their clients want to do and would actually be willing to help them try to get there are usua
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Well jjgeek, I'm glad you didn't take my comment as overly crytical, I realize rereading it now it could be read the wrong way, particularly because I confess I do tend to have a prejudice against those institutionalized, closed minded blind people who refuse to try anythin
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Lol I never really thought of calling it joke/rehab, but I like that! So true too! @Dark: Point well taken. I'm not in the least bit upset by this, but I'd just like to offer up a bit of an explanation of my living situation. Back in late 2002 my parents and I heard about a
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@jjgeek, I'm not sure on your situation, but to be brutally honest it sounds like you perhaps should not being as reliant on sighted institutions and assistance, or to look at getting some training to be so. Specialist taxi services are okay, however it sounds like the Ameri
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Yeah. I plan on asking today if I can get through the DST program and still go back to school in August (while a degree would be great, there are many other things I could get from there that are harder to get elsewhere. Not just minions, but it's easier to obtain minions at
Re: Training Centers
Well, would any of the vocational programs they offer be of any use to you?In other words, would it be beneficial to you at all to get a certificate in something, maybe the desktop technician program, just to say that you have a certificate?Normally, I wouldn't go along with
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This is really starting to give me that "Screw it, I'll do it myself" feeling. Except I'm not good enough to do that at this point. And I'm not really sociable enough / good enough at explaining things to take up the "teaching people mobility" role. (See: my horribly confusi
Re: Training Centers
Well put. Regarding those liquid-level indicators, I have one. My mom ordered it when I was still living with my parents, and it is very good although I think it needs a new battery one of these years. I honestly don't use it much anymore though, since I have good sensitivit
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Thought I'd throw in my 2 cents here, for what it's worth. I, too, have not faired too well as of late when it comes to formal orientation&mobility instruction. Apparently the voc/rehab agency here in the Land of Lincoln thinks that one would need a good paying job in order
Re: Training Centers
Thought I'd throw in my 2 cents here, for what it's worth. I, too, have not faired too well as of late when it comes to formal orientation&mobility instruction. Apparently the voc/rehab agency here in the Land of Lincoln thinks that one would need a good paying job in order
Re: Training Centers
I think it may vary from one part of the country to the other. Here becoming a cop or chief of police seems to often be more about the prestige the office can bring than actually fighting crime or keeping the piece. There also seems in some US police agencies to be what for
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@Blackbird, interesting. I wouldn't directly say in the Uk people trust the government, indeed confidence in the government and even in the electoral process has been dropping extensively, especially over the last 10-20 years between the gulf war, closure of a lot of Bri
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@DarkAmericans and firearms boils down to one simple thing. Distrust. Distrust in the government and distrust in each other. Whether this is justified is another discussion but where the American and European mindset seems to differ fundamentally is the trust we put in our g
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Wel Cae, specialist schools as you know I have experiences ofand while theoretically I suppose there could be some good ones, both my own experiences and the after effects I've noticed on others I know have been pretty dire, so I agree with you on those. while I don't l
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So, I think I'm starting to lean in this direction, just based on what little information I've gathered. Keep in mind, I still know next to nothing about schools and training programs other than WSB and the NFB Centers, and a few specialist school experiences/anecdata.- If y
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@Tom, while I have always understood that the fire arms thing in the states had some historical basis, albeit I wasn't %100 what that basis was, i confess it has always seemed really loopy to me that anyone on the street could be legally carrying a gun, and that some Amer
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Dark, the issue over firearms is just one of many areas where you guys over in England and we Americans differ. As you may know the second amendment to the United States Constitution grants the right to own and bare arms to any American irrespective of age, race, or disabili
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Interesting regarding shooting. In England the idea of any organization that wasn't itself a hunting club taking anyone shooting is litterally illegal irrispective of sight levels. I've heard of blind people over here who do shoot, but they do it with a specific shooting c
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Hi everyone,It's late, and like turtlepower17 yesterday, I'm fighting off a cold. I'm also going on 3 hours of sleep, and I have to be up in another 5 hours for a meeting with India. I want to give everyone's posts the time and attention they deserve, but I just don't have t
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... You know, I remember Michigan being the one state where the blind can legally hunt without sighted assistance. It's curious that someone lost their job over exactly that exactly there. . . .URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=167337#p167337
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Hi @turtlepower17I'm going to start with post 63 and come back to your other post later. Unfortunately, I have a lot of housework that needs to get done tonight before family shows up tomorrow, and I spend a fair bit of time writing these posts.So couple quick things:At BLIN
Re: Training Centers
To be fair I actually did enjoy the woodshop class I took but then again that could have been because my dad often let me help with woodworking projects at home. But I do agree that it should be a matter of individual choice since not every person is going to have the intere
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I just thought of a few more things I wanted to say in my post last night.It would actually make a lot more sense to teach self-defense classes as a source of empowerment rather than wood shop. Why? Because almost anyone can benefit from gaining confidence in their ability t
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But can Blindsquare help while walking? That'smy main question. As forthe NFB I also could never see myself attending one oftheir centers. I'veattended afew gatherings where their philosophy was preachhed withthe same rigidity that made organized religion so unappealing to m
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@Cae, regarding mobility, it's not really a matter of random drops specifically, or of any single magic formula. I've never actually done random drops myself, though I have had occasions where someone would take me off an established route and get me to find it again via lo
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Thinking about it further, I'm not sure there's much of an advantage to a 6 month training program when just deliberately getting lost (possibly with an iPhone and Blindsquare as backup) seems an efficient way to learn a place.If I could just get someone I trust (that's the
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@Tom, as I said I have no problem with the use of the sleep shades for people with variable vision, I've even met an instructor who did something similar, (though she used a cloth blindfold and got the permission of the girl in question first). That is really my issue. t
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Hi,I have quite a few thoughts on this subject, and I hope that I cover them in a coherent manner. I'm not operating on all cylinders at the moment, since I'm fighting off a rather nasty cold, but I'm going to do my best, since this is a subject that's very important to me.
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I agree with Dark, I see no reason for sleep shades to be required. For "confidence building" they might do the exact opposite, since if someone with low vision who has little to no skill or self-confidence, who has rarely been away from home, goes to a training center, the
Re: Training Centers
Dark, regarding the sleep shades issue I am sure this is simply an issue you will have to agree to disagree with as I don't think there is any way to convince you of the necessity of this in training. While I am totally blind now when I was loosing my sight I had to wear the
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@Ryan, I'm afraid I'm still not convinced on the sleep shades issue. If a person is peering too close to something in a pan, well thatt tells me they should be using safety goggles not being banned from using their vision. Again, if the question is to prove a person can do
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CAE, while I personally have not gone to the WSB or NFB training centers I did go to a training center here in Ohio, the Cleveland Sight Center, and I would assume some of those other training centers may have something analogous to my own experience at the Cleveland Sight C
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[ a-t ] CAE_JonesI have never heard of research stating that sleepshades can further vision loss, but I would be interested in getting my hands on it. I did see mention made of such research in the Wikipedia article for National federation of the Blind, but it was never cite
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@Cae, well the medical bit is actually true, since there are various eye conditions such as Retinita pygmentosa where a person's eyes will atrophy if not used. I assume if the NFb is a reasonable organization there is some way to come to an arrangement in these circu
Re: Training Centers
rstrunk wrote:I'm sorry for anyone who has a bad experience at a training center. Deciding to go for training is usually a pretty big step for people, so when it goes sour, it goes really, really sour. I've heard my fair share of horror stories. Keep in mind, though, how the
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@DarkSorry for the double-posting, but given the amount you covered in your post, I want to address it separately.At first blush, I'd say you're right about us agreeing to disagree. Both of us, I'd imagine, can construct some pretty convincing arguments for our side of thing
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@ArqmeisterI completely understand a good rant. I appreciate your apology.The situation you described for yourself is the ideal one. I myself received such good training growing up that I only went to a training center--not even an NFB one--for three months, and even then, t
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@Arq, on the last intigration point I can agree, I have mentioned my own issues with specialist i education and those who have been through it. That being said, if the intention of the Nfb is for people to live in training centers completely and the training center to prov
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At rstrunk: Sorry for my ranting, I see your much more level headed and aware than most NFB officials I have had the pleasure of talking to. My acultist comment was a little over the top, i'll just put that on the table right now. But it would seem from the outside, that the
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At Arq: World Services for the Blind has a Desktop Support Technician course, which appears to be close to what you're looking for (I'm not sure how deep it gets. My case manager has had me sit in on their classes for about a week, but right now, it's a lot of independent st
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@arqmeisterI understand that you and I are likely going to have very differing opinions, and I respect that. Please keep in mind, though, that calling me a cultist probably won't help either one of us. Aside from that, I want to address a few things you brought up in your po
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@arqmeisterI think you misunderstand. The point of these programs can be to get you a job, but for many blind people they aren't even close to that point. There's a lot of skills that you need before you can consider something like college or vocational training, and many
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Ok, this may sound a little more harsh than my speaking tone would suggest. I feel that an organization who can't even provide career training options is a joke. While learning basic living skills, I would want options to learn how to build and repair computers, or take a co
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@arqmeisterWe never had it because NFB centers don't do specific vocational training, but I'm pretty sure the careers instructor at any of the centers could help you get placed.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=167030#p167030
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I also live in a fairly small city, small enough to not currently have public transit, although there has been talk of implementing suc a system in a few years if the city continues to grow. As for the job thing I'm pretty much with Dark. I'm not willing to accept a low-func
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I just want to jump in ask quickly, is there computer hardware training at NFB centers? In other words, could they teach a blind person how to build or repair computers? Personally, I wouldn't mind going to a center if that was an option.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/view
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I'm glad to see this thread came back. After my post back on January 18, I wondered if I had frightened people off. I'm also excited that you're going to training, CAE_jones, though I'm terribly sorry it's not going as you would hope. As others have said, advocacy is the key
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@Camlorn, if your job was interesting enough for you to want to do without listening to books or music, you have pretty much got things right, however that unfortunately is not the case for a good %90 of sighted graduates at the moment. A friend of mine has four degrees and
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@dark and everyone else, I know completely what you mean about the ridiculously rigid mobility instructors. The one from my state school I mentioned is a pretty good example, at one point she pretty much demanded that I hold my cane in my left hand which I rarely do (I refus
Re: Training Centers
In terms of notetakers and programming, no, no, no. I can maybe see a braille display, though. don't go for a Notetaker, go for a braille display if you really want it. I am referring to programming only, though it is worth finding out that the new Macbooks apparently hav
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(And that is why I would not dream of getting a note taker without a braille display, but that topic has been beaten to death already. )... Actually, on that note... I was kinda hoping I would be able to spin my time at WSB into a new Notetaker (or at least repairs to th PA
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Unfortunately Cae, that is one other thing about a visual imparement, most jobs you can't! listen to music/radio/audio books etc while doing them even in menial jobs because your ears are usually necessary.I know many sighted people who do things like stack shelves or dr
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@Kileman, I'm afraid I still don't get the sleep shades thing. To me, saying "well you've lost lots of vision so lets force you to use no vision at all" is like taking someone who is paraplegic and tyine one hand behind their back, then forcing them to live like that for a
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@Kileman, I'm afraid I still don't get the sleep shades thing. To me, saying "well you've lost lots of vision so lets force you to use no vision at all" is like taking someone who is paraplegic and tyine one hand behind their back, then forcing them to live like that for a
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@Kileman, I'm afraid I still don't get the sleep shades thing. To me, saying "well you've lost lots of vision so lets force you to use no vision at all" is like taking someone who is paraplegic and tyine one hand behind their back, then forcing them to live like that for a
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Yeah... I need money pretty desperately, but I'm not interested in sitting at a call center all day to get it. That would almost definitely cut my lifespan in half.If it's a relatively inactive call center and I have a working notetaker and I can, like, code or write or some
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@Kileman, I'm afraid I still don't get the sleep shades thing. To me, saying "well you've lost lots of vision so lets force you to use no vision at all" is like taking someone who is paraplegic and tyine one hand behind their back, then forcing them to live like that for a
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At Kyleman: Thanks!I did email him yesterday. If he's normally a quicker reply than this, I wouldn't be surprised if it got flagged as spam because of it being from my Juno account. At Camlorn: I'm in a weird town, with regards to suburbs/cities/etc.It's large for the state
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@darkI don't advocate cooking meat in the microwave; my typical technique is to put it in for about 45 seconds to a minute at the end if I'm not sure. This just makes sure that the middle is done, and does so without burning the outside horribly.Blindsquare is a Trekker for
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cea jones. i hope you ended up emailing the man i involved in our little twitter exchange about your questions. he is a really smart man and the leader of the program at louisiana center for the blind. hope he was able to answer your questions. if you haven't emailed him, i
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@Camlorn, A strainer inside the pan is a good idea, although I personally don't really do enough on the hob to really warrent getting one. I personally prefer meat either on the george, in the crock pot if it is something like a joint of ham, or in the oven, since while t
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@Camlorn, A strainer inside the pan is a good idea, although I personally don't really do enough on the hob to really warrent getting one. I personally prefer meat either on the george, in the crock pot if it is something like a joint of ham, or in the oven, since while t
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@darkI did not mean to imply that all buses here have spoken announcements, and I do not believe they all have the same type. Some announce the route externally, some announce the route internally, some do both, and some do neither. I am somewhere that is generally conside
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@Cinnamon, interesting and good thoughts. I did a lot of what you describe in terms of using cold implements while learning, I also did as you said with cooking times, and checking food. Another tactic I've often used is poking things with a fork to check if they're done,
Re: Training Centers
@Cinnamon, interesting and good thoughts. I did a lot of what you describe in terms of using cold implements while learning, I also did as you said with cooking times, and checking food. Another tactic I've often used is poking things with a fork to check if they're done,
Re: Training Centers
I made a list of questions I have for training centers (tailored more for NFB centers). It wound up longer than I expected. I'll go ahead and post it here, and see if anyone has anything to add/criticize/suggest/answer/etc.1. Efficiency. 6 months is a long time. I expect I'v
Re: Training Centers
At Wanderer: It may have been mostly bitching, but it was glorious, glorious, relatable bitching. A lot like what I would have said when I was 17 if I'd realized what a mess I was in. ... A lot like what I would say right now if screen readers and the forum settings could re
Re: Training Centers
This post is probably going to be zero help since you're looking for advice on training centers, and I've never been near one. But here are some tips and things I did when I was leaving home and learning. Many skills only come from practice and experience.Spacial perception
Re: Training Centers
This post is probably going to be zero help since you're looking for advice on training centers, and I've never been near one. But here are some tips and things I did when I was leaving home and learning. Many skills only come from practice and experience.Spacial perception
Re: Training Centers
@Camlorn, interesting that all busses in the Us have audio announcements. In the Uk it's really only something that has started in the past few years, and the only place you can be %100 certain of getting audio announcements is London. In many other areas it is left up to th
Re: Training Centers
Ok, this probably isn't going to be a very constructive post, and I'm most likely going to end up just bitching, but here's my situation. I'm 17, a junior in high school, and am living in a pretty rural area as well, about 3 miles or so out of town, which is pretty small. As
Re: Training Centers
Stoves are fine. I'd not suggest trying to do a complicated recipe with one, but simple stuff-well, no big deal after you get over the this is hot bit. I boil stuff all the time-pasta and the like-and can do hamburgers/taco meat if the desire is there. I'm of course not li
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Hello Cae. I don't have any personal experience of either of these organizations for obvious reasons, but one thing I would suggest from reading your posts is perhaps you are too much taken up with other people's criteria of what is or is not useful, rather than finding thin
Re: Training Centers
So, I've been at WSB for a little over 3 weeks.I'm... slightly less terrified of using a stove?I don't know how much mobility can fit into the rest of this week, but I feel like it's mostly just been testing what I already know, rather than anything I could really gain from.
Re: Training Centers
CAE_Jones,I can absolutely understand your desire to get training, and it sounds to me as though you have the right mindset for it. In addition, you're doing the right thing in questioning locations, techniques, philosophies, all the things that should be important when choo
Re: Training Centers
I agree with pretty much everything you said, Turtlepower.I'd start such a thing myself, had I the prerequisites (in this case, I think they're slightly higher than for all the other stuff I'd do myself if not for .).All of Camlorn's points are bothersomely true, though (hen
Re: Training Centers
I agree with pretty much everything you said, Turtlepower.I'd start such a thing myself, had I the prerequisites (in this case, I think they're slightly higher than for all the other stuff I'd do myself if not for .).URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=162233#
Re: Training Centers
Yes, I see where you're coming from, but a website like I'm proposing wouldn't hurt. I don't really have the technical knowhow to start such a thing, although I'd be willing to invest time in moderating the forums, writing to training centers to see if they're interested in
Re: Training Centers
Colorado is nice. I've been. I can't speak to their center, but it's apparently popular, and is also a popular area for blind people in general as far as I can tell. Great public transportation, too (I'm sure everyone now knows what my criteria number 1 is for ideal livin
Re: Training Centers
So, I finally found this:http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.c … tfAGftPxn8(There are related organizations linked after the main report.)The NFB's score is mediocre at best. Colorado Center for the Blind scores a tier higher. There are a few other schools/organizations li
Re: Training Centers
You know, this topic, and others I've either seen or participated in, has brought up a gripe that I often have in these discussions.There is never any objectivity in these matters. While a lot of it does come down to personal opinion, and I'm not trying to dispute its value.
Re: Training Centers
the android app thing is interesting in that android accessibility currently sucks, but *may* soon get better. That's a big, big may though.If you want a job, you're probably going to have to learn things you could care less about, there's no denying that. You could probab
Re: Training Centers
camlorn wrote: Basically, don't record yourself traveling from A to B, and then memorize only that path, try to figure out the "shape" and "size" of it.Ah, the recording was me vaguely hoping I could get usable sound effects out of it, or something interesting at least. (My
Re: Training Centers
At scotf: I had plenty of time over breaks, or when I wasn't in class, to get mobility lessons on campus, but they were specific to campus, and dependant on what mobility I already had. Even then, most of the routes I learned were more like tips than anything; I effectively
Re: Training Centers
Ok cae.Firstly, this is going to be harsh.not to you but on your topic.You can call me a no good bastard if you want I don't mind.Firstly, you need to know what you want round about.I am 31 years old now and should know.I hate to burst things but my experiences were less tha
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