Oh Angela! Imposition is a poor choice of words. Who do you think will be
imposed the most if we continue having children the way that we are? It
probably won't be us, but it very well may be our children or our
grandchildren. If you want to have lots of kids adopt. Do you feel the
need to
Angela wrote:
Keep up the good work for the women, the animals and the Earth and please try
to remember that just because I am Christian does not mean that I dogmatic -
do you understand that?
++In my opinion, YOUR views are dogmatic.
Marguerite
In a message dated 98-10-22 15:13:31 EDT, you write:
Let's try it first, before we gratuitously declare it impossible, shall
we? Joe
Try what - mandatory population control?
That IS what I was referring to - I am for voluntary population limitation
not mandatory control.
If we were
The fact of the matter is that over-population is the most significant
threat to Planet Earth. Therefore the there is an urgency for population
control
NO it is not! The current, most pressing threat is ANARCHISM - the elite
power hungry, over zealous, spiritually deprieved, greedy, corrupt
In a message dated 98-10-21 19:40:18 EDT, you write:
From sex, people experience
pleasure and closeness
People also find pleasure and closeness in drug addiction - Does that make it
right?
Not saying that sex is not right - however, just because something brings
pleasure and closeness
In a message dated 98-10-20 01:32:07 EDT, you write:
I believe that humans have
the power to determine their own destiny.
Hi!
How then do humans have the power over the rest of nature? Isn't nature part
of our destiny?
++Humans have immense power to destroy this planet through
Date sent: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 06:03:32 EDT
Send reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: STUDIES IN WOMEN AND ENVIRONMENT [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: Family size etc.
In a message dated 98-10-20 17:42:01
In a message dated 98-10-20 01:32:07 EDT, you write:
I believe that humans have
the power to determine their own destiny.
Hi!
How then do humans have the power over the rest of nature? Isn't nature part
of our destiny?
Re: you post about abortion and unwanted pregnancies - you are
Date sent: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 16:27:36 EDT
Send reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: STUDIES IN WOMEN AND ENVIRONMENT [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: Family size etc.
In a message dated 98-10-20 01:32:07
In a message dated 98-10-18 18:50:40 EDT, you write:
No we dont know that it isnt an entirely heterosexual problem it ISNT it
is a HUMAN problem. Everyone is involved --even those childless and will
remain so thank you very much (talking personally here).
I agree! It is a human problem!
Angela wroteHello? I am Pro-Life, Pro-Choice, Pro-peace without violence!
I was implying that even those yet in womb may have rights. Do we know for
sure that they do not? How can we guarantee to the people who believe in
eternal life that life yet to be has not been planned in advance by a
Hear hear!
Bertina
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Mon, 19 Oct 1998, bunny wrote:
Angela wroteHello? I am Pro-Life, Pro-Choice, Pro-peace without violence!
I was implying that even those yet in womb may have rights. Do we know for
sure that they do not? How can we guarantee to the people who
IN WOMEN AND ENVIRONMENT
Subject:Re: family size,etc.
In a message dated 98-10-16 12:57:01 EDT, you write:
Some might decide never to have children, just as
some straight people might decide this. Some of us might want many
children.
Hi!
Candi - I did not mean to sound biased
down, while he does not.
Just some food for thought,
Candi
-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, October 16, 1998 1:45 PM
To: STUDIES IN WOMEN AND ENVIRONMENT
Subject: RE: family size,etc.
Why do these discussions always turn into a ranting and raving scream
fest? Discuss but stop
ot; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 12:37:50 -0500
Subject: Re: family size,etc.
Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In-reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date sent: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 07:33:45 EDT
Send reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: [EMAIL
:Re: family size,etc.
In a message dated 98-10-16 14:31:06 EDT, you write:
rom: Sarah Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To:STUDIES IN WOMEN AND ENVIRONMENT
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: family size,etc.
Originally to: "'[EMAIL PROT
In a message dated 98-10-19 11:19:55 EDT, you write:
Angela,
This topic involves everyone and same-sex couples CAN decide to have
children (through pro-creation, adoption, foster care). What do you call
it if the male partner in a heterosexual relationship cannot fertilize a
woman if
In a message dated 98-10-19 11:42:09 EDT, you write:
Well said angela! I hope you don't change your mind and get pissed at me
for my previous message! It is all part of our struggle to learn and grow,
right?
Candi Churchill
Hi! Candi, I'm not angry - but I would prefer to not be
who r u
From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Oct 19 17:02:49 1998
From: "Joe E. Dees" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 18:03:00 -0500
Subject: Re: re family size etc.
Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In-reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Angela, check the front of the bus. Ma
Hear,hear, bunny! "God'll work it all out for the best" is a soothing
way to avoid responsibility for doing nothing. As for the prolifers
among you, here's a poem.
The Fundamentals by Joe E. Dees
"Abortion is murder!" the witch-burners bay
As they kneel on their hard wooden floors
Date sent: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 12:44:43 EDT
Send reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: STUDIES IN WOMEN AND ENVIRONMENT [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: family size,etc.
In a message dated 98-10-17 16:58:01
I think at one time many environmenalists were hindered by people
stating "oh it isnt all that bad" "the ozone layer is still viable"
"businesses release ozone as well as pollutants" excuses as to people feel
environmentalists are just doomsayers and are pessimistic. I always felt
we are
Angela you ever heard of getting pregnant through in vitro fertilization?
Bertina
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Fri, 16 Oct 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 98-10-16 12:57:01 EDT, you write:
Some might decide never to have children, just as
some straight people might decide
Angela I was the fourth of five children I wouldnt have been born if MY
PARENTS decided not to have more than 2 children. I can *Live* with that
choice that my parents didnt opt for, why cant you?
Bertina
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Fri, 16 Oct 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated
Progression also means overpopulation. Enough said!
Bertina
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Fri, 16 Oct 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 98-10-16 13:46:14 EDT, you write:
And a dying ecosystem is going to support the infrastructure for all
these good jobs for these teeming
AND ENVIRONMENT [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: family size,etc.
Originally to: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Why do these discussions always turn into a ranting and raving scream
fest? Discuss but stop getting so personal and angry. I think most of us
basic
Again EXACTOMONT!
Beautiful!
Bertina
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Fri, 16 Oct 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 98-10-16 16:40:50 EDT, you write:
i agreeif we cant begin to create a safe space here in which to learn
together-collaboratively-, how are we ever ever going to
Sorry Angela missed again--wasnt that a song -OT. Anyhoo--NO a homosexual
can donate his/her egg/sperm to a homosexual couple for birthing purposes.
Spreading the Joy of Enlightenment,
Bertina
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sat, 17 Oct 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 98-10-16 21:42:11
Exsqueese me but 2 adults with children make a family Angela --doesnt
matter if there gay bi straight transgendered funky or atheist.
Bertina
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sat, 17 Oct 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi!
Why would a lesbian and gay man decide to have a baby? What kind of family
life
No mandates but families choice has always been what I was talking about!
Bertina
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sat, 17 Oct 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 98-10-17 13:35:48 EDT, you write:
Please enlighten us as to the
particular dogma that demands you take such an
Boy did you hit the nail on the head Joe!
Bertina
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sat, 17 Oct 1998, Joe E. Dees wrote:
The central insight of the deep ecology movement is that the most
stubborn and subtle (subliminal) form of racism is HUMAN racism -
the attitude that humans are for some reason
]
Subject: Re: family size,etc.
In a message dated 98-10-18 16:58:56 EDT, you write:
I think at one time many environmenalists were hindered by people
stating "oh it isnt all that bad" "the ozone layer is still viable"
"businesses release ozone as well as pollutants&q
In a message dated 98-10-18 17:08:13 EDT, you write:
Angela you ever heard of getting pregnant through in vitro fertilization?
Yes, I have - however, I am not educated enough on this subject to comment on
it. I was trying to say that if you bring a child into the world it is
different
1998
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 17:59:46 EDT
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: family size,etc.
In a message dated 98-10-18 17:10:18 EDT, you write:
Angela I was the fourth of five children I wouldnt have been born if MY
PARENTS decided not to have more than 2 children. I
No we dont know that it isnt an entirely heterosexual problem it ISNT it
is a HUMAN problem. Everyone is involved --even those childless and will
remain so thank you very much (talking personally here).
Bertina
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sun, 18 Oct 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated
Exactly!
bertina
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sun, 18 Oct 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 98-10-18 17:13:09 EDT, you write:
Progression also means overpopulation. Enough said!
Bertina
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Maybe there should be a bumper sticker:
"Populate wisely - the
No that is my point I would not be here and I am willing to live or die as
the case may be (or possibly -I am willing to not have lived?).
I wouldnt care if i didnt exist because I would not have been born! I am
an atheist and I of course believe that "I think therefore I am" applies
in this
Date sent: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 17:46:32 EDT
Send reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: STUDIES IN WOMEN AND ENVIRONMENT [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: family size,etc.
In a message dated 98-10-18 13:24:51
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: family size,etc.
In fact...two good friends of mine, a lesbian and a gay man have a baby together;
and it was NOT adopted. So, Angela, that's how queers can DECIDE to HAVE
children.
dp
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 98-10-16 12:57:01 EDT, you write
Date sent: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 06:40:41 EDT
Send reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: STUDIES IN WOMEN AND ENVIRONMENT [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: family size,etc.
In a message dated 98-10-16 21:42:11
] Sat Oct 17 14:15:46 1998
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 16:11:45 EDT
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: family size,etc.
In a message dated 98-10-17 13:35:48 EDT, you write:
Please enlighten us as to the
particular dogma that demands you take such an anti-ecological
Date sent: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 16:17:53 EDT
Send reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: STUDIES IN WOMEN AND ENVIRONMENT [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: family size,etc.
In a message dated 98-10-17 14:37:23
: Re: family size,etc.
In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
This is one of the most heterosexist comments I have ever heard...
***
*Miguel A Ordorica*
*Washington State University
This thread has been so extremely heteronormative and heterosexist.
dp
ren at this time - Now we tell the people (and help them) who do not know
the who, what, where and why of overpopulation and the eco-crisis - Get it?
Thanks!
Angela
From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Oct 16 09:01:55 1998
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 11:01:17 EDT
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED
I agree.
Candi
Sent: Friday, October 16, 1998 8:30 AM
To: STUDIES IN WOMEN AND ENVIRONMENT
Subject:Re: family size,etc.
This thread has been so extremely heteronormative and heterosexist.
dp
Date sent: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 06:10:22 EDT
Send reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: STUDIES IN WOMEN AND ENVIRONMENT [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: family size,etc.
In a message dated 98-10-15 21:14:54
To: STUDIES IN WOMEN AND ENVIRONMENT
Subject:Re: family size,etc.
In a message dated 98-10-16 08:27:32 EDT, you write:
This thread has been so extremely heteronormative and heterosexist.
dp
I guess if you were homosexual you would automatically be for
population
control - no pro
Date sent: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:51:47 EDT
Send reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: STUDIES IN WOMEN AND ENVIRONMENT [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: family size,etc.
In a message dated 98-10-16 08:39:12
8 13:26:36 -0500
Subject: RE: family size,etc.
Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In-reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date sent: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 13:45:04 -0400
Send reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: Sarah Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: STUDIE
m.
Thanks and Peace!
Angela
From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Oct 16 18:07:28 1998
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 19:59:15 EDT
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: family size,etc.
In a message dated 98-10-16 14:05:07 EDT, you write:
I agree, except to assert that those who want man
Date sent: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 19:59:15 EDT
Send reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: STUDIES IN WOMEN AND ENVIRONMENT [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: family size,etc.
In a message dated 98-10-16 14:05:07
In a message dated 98-10-14 20:40:43 EDT, you write:
The root cause of overpopulation is the vast number of nuts
heedlessly sprouting; in other words, contraceptionless sex.
Joe
And what causes reproduction? Fertility - so blame life for life - makes no
sense! Blame a lack of
Angela do you even know how many working families are homeless? Working
isnt "working"!
Bertina
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Wed, 14 Oct 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 98-10-14 12:06:09 EDT, you write:
"those poor uneducated, ignorant peasants" and
that if we could just
yes, a very nice ring.but i still feel that i would rather address the
larger societal problems that create psychopath strangers in the first
place (poverty, abuse, medical (political) system that turns out mentally
ill patients due to lack of funding, etc), rather than empower my children
In a message dated 98-10-15 08:20:13 EDT, you write:
Angela do you even know how many working families are homeless? Working
isnt "working"!
Hi!
What? I know that in many cases women and men are underpaid - but having any
pay and being frugal about you life and your money can help. The
Wow Joe?so the root of all of the evils in society from corporate greed and
environmental exploitation to poor governmental policies is all those
stupid women who go around and fuck all the time without protection? Women
heedlessly sprouting because putting your body through 9 months of
Date sent: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 20:22:53 EDT
Send reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: STUDIES IN WOMEN AND ENVIRONMENT [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: family size,etc.
In a message dated 98-10-15 19:17:53
Hi!
Bertina, Melissa said that overpopulation is the cause of the current
ecocrisis - I merely said that it was not at the root of the problem - that
greed was. Starving children are a result of bad government, unequal
distribution of wealth and uneducated population of underpaid immigrants . .
Hello all- thought I would mention that it is important to realize that
while education may be a necessary component to addressing overpopulation,
it is not sufficient, and should not be promoted at the expense of ignoring
larger political/economic issues. There is lots of research out there
In a message dated 98-10-14 15:12:50 EDT, you write:
And I am saying that overpopulation, poor governmental policies and
unequal distribution of wealth (all of it) is the cause of the current
ecocrisis.
Bertina
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi!
Bertina, thanks for clearing that up. However
E. Dees" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:18:49 -0500
Subject: Re: family size,etc.
Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In-reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date sent: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:42:55 EDT
Send reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From:
Now you are getting into esoteric territory. Let's see, erm, is it EVIL?!?
said the church lady (from Church Chat on SNL). Very funny sketch by Dana
Carvey SNL alum.
So funny I forgot to laugh!
Bertina
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Wed, 14 Oct 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated
this
imposition?
Thanks and Peace!
Angela
From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tue Oct 13 08:37:10 1998
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 10:37:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bertina Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: STUDIES IN WOMEN AND ENVIRONMENT [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: family size,etc.
In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED
Date sent: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 13:44:16 EDT
Send reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: STUDIES IN WOMEN AND ENVIRONMENT [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: family size,etc.
In a message dated 98-10-13 10:42:29
3 Oct 1998 17:03:34 -0500
Subject: Re: family size,etc.
Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In-reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date sent: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 17:34:11 EDT
Send reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: STUDIES IN WOMEN AND E
nd because when (eco)feminists
start advocating for population control without making these points, it is
scary. Who will consider these things if WE aren't?!
Candi Churchill
-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 8:57 AM
To: STUDIES IN WOMEN AND ENVIRONMENT
Subject:
If that is true Angela then what accounts for the starving children in our
own country? Greed? Overpopulation? All of it is true.
Bertina
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Tue, 13 Oct 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 98-10-13 10:42:29 EDT, you write:
One of the main reasons we have an
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