We are drifting way off the original post question which was related to
the K2 and transmit audio.
If the discussion is to morph to the K3 and its receive audio, someone
needs to change the subject line.
The K3 does have the RX EQ which can change the RX audio substantially.
The internal
This debate comes up way too often - so I rather think there is an
inherent problem with the perceived comfort of the receive audio.
First, I am a long-time Kenwood user and am very used to armchair copy -
as most of my hamming is rag chew on 75 and 40 meters.
To that end, I have spent too
I have a ongoing nuisance. On USB it seems high voices will pop/crack just
like if AGC was off and hitting the AF limiter. Reducing RF Gain clears it up.
Turning agc threshold down has no effect.
Is there a agc setting that might correct this? I haven't tried slope which is
15 (max).
I
Mike,
I don't know if it will help in your situation, but take a look at my
webpage www.w3fpr.com article on Noisy K3 for some guidance to setting
the AGC parameters. Yes, changing the slope may be helpful, but you
will have to experiment a bit.
Turning the preamp off and perhaps the
Mike,
An added note - when experimenting with the AGC settings, do take heed
of the information on how to evaluate the results of your changes -
listen between pauses in the signal rather than listening to the noise
on the band. Listening to the noise level without an intermittent
signal
Adding on Don's post, my experience is to go slow, make one change and
try it out in real situations. I was about to give up on the RX Eq, and
got that advice from K9YC. I did finally zero it in where I want it.
With a radio that has as many configurable parameters as the K3, some of
which
Let me add, I don't mind reducing rf gain more one on one BUT its aggravating
after a while in a group to turn it up and down for one or two guys with high
pitch voices.
Seems AGC should do that?
Once again, it's like the high pitch voice is activating th AF limiter or a
similar sound. AGC
Mike,
The high pitched voices should have no connection with AGC. I would
suggest that those signals are off frequency. Using the RX EQ might
help, or reducing the HiCut may be the answer to make your RX more
comfortable.
73,
Don W3FPR
On 1/23/2014 11:33 PM, mikerodgerske5...@yahoo.com
Mike,
Do you have CONFIG:AF LIM reduced from NOR 030 and MENU:RX EQ set to
boost high frequencies?
73,
... Joe, W4TV
On 1/23/2014 11:33 PM, mikerodgerske5...@yahoo.com wrote:
Let me add, I don't mind reducing rf gain more one on one BUT its aggravating
after a while in a group to turn
Joe,
Thanks. I should double check AF Lim. I've always set at 30.
EQ mostly flat with band 8 -16. I may experiment with -3 or -6 on some EQ
bands.
73
Mike R
RIP- Mr 500. STP's Andy Granatelli from racing fans everywhere.
On Jan 23, 2014, at 11:04 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV li...@subich.com
My K3 is in the 61XX serial number range (almost 2 years old), and I'm
running FW 4.67/2.81.
While setting up WSJT-X, I've noticed a rather pronounced audio roll-off on
the waterfall display. By other means I've verified that the sound card
being used is flat down to below 20 Hz, so it isn't
Is this roll-off similar to what other folks are seeing?
That is slightly less roll off than I see with either the FM (13 KHz)
or 2.8 KHz filters in the data modes. It is in line with the 200 Hz
cut off for data modes.
In LSB/USB the low cut is less steep. In SSB it looks to be about
10 dB
Thank you all that replied to me direct and via the mailing list, There is too
many to reply to,
There was a good balance between positive and negative, But I think I can be
happy to proceed with getting a K3 and not worry about this issue.
Thanks again
Trevor
EI2GLB
From: Trevor Dunne
Yes, please! Irritating when I've been on speaker and then put on
headphones and blast myself with my own sidetone.
A fixed L-R balance adjustment somewhere in a menu would be great too, for
guys like me who have one weak ear. Can't find a headset that I like that
also has individual volume
H...that would be a huge improvement for all I reckon.
I have always had to be careful when switching from speaker to headphones.
Didn't always turn out too good though.
Gary
On 22 July 2013 16:04, Carl Clawson clawso...@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, please! Irritating when I've been on speaker
I think the audio voice quality has been remedied long ago.
What lingers is the high end hiss that I and a few others hear. Apparently this
only bothers a minority.
On my 5047 it occurs with hi cut of about 2500 and gets worse to 3000. If you
run bandwidth 2.1 or below you will never hear it.
Mike,
If that 'hiss' is reduced when the bandwidth is reduced, then it is
atmospheric noise that you are hearing, not any internally generated noise.
The audio LPF that was added to the DSP board has a cutoff frequency
somewhere near 3.4 kHz if I recall. There is little falloff at
A theory on listening fatigue.
There can be many reasons for undesirable listening conditions.background
noise, poor TX audio, static and more. What our receivers can't shut out
our minds have to deal with.
If a received signal is 75% listenable and very Q5, we still have to put
mental
The audio LPF that was added to the DSP board has a cutoff frequency
somewhere near 3.4 kHz if I recall.
The cutoff is 4.2 KHz - the same as the high limit of the DSP.
The K3 does have a very flat passband with steep skirts out to the
hi-cut value. I am guessing that the flat passband is
That could be what it is. The hissy sound that some folks are hearing is
probably simply a passband that's unusually flat. Those interested should
familiarize themselves with the plots on Barry N1EU's page:
http://n1eu.com/K3/K3_notes.htm .
So, I am not sure why, if at say, 2.8 kHz you find
Trevor,
With the 8 band EQ settings I think most operators either forget or are
unfamiliar with how much the received (perceived?) audio can be tailored to
the individuals hearing.
Sure you can use stereo headsets (which I do) and or use the internal
speaker provided. Again, audio is really
Good quality transmit audio, be it from outboard processing gear or other
needn't consume excessive bandwidth, though some does. Nor does it need to
be excessive in any of its characteristics.
I appreciate quality receive audio beyond that of simply 'communications
quality.' I routinely
Hi All
I am allmost ready to order my K3 but I keep reading about people that are
unhappy with the RX audio,
Is this still a problem or has there been changes made to slove it, Can someone
point me to a good guide on how to set the RX up to remove the harsh sounding
audio.
I will mainly be
Trevor,
I purchased a used K3 (s/n 281) a bit over two years ago and have never had
a complaint about receive audio. I love this rig and will, in all
likelihood, never buy another rig again.
Good luck with your purchase decision.
73,
--Ian
Ian Kahn, KM4IK
Roswell, GA EM74ua
Trevor
My #930 has always sounded nice to me with a pair of high end sennheiser
headphones with far less background hiss than either the ts480 or IC7000 which
preceded it. I did the dsp board swap a couple of years ago and that made it
even more pleasant to listen to. In my opinion, even for
Dunne trevor_du...@yahoo.com
收件人︰ Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
傳送日期︰ 2013年07月19日 (週五) 7:16 PM
主題︰ [Elecraft] K3 RX Audio
Hi All
I am allmost ready to order my K3 but I keep reading about people that are
unhappy with the RX audio,
Is this still a problem or has
I am mostly a rag chewer and enjoy armchair copy audio. To that end, I
found the K3 was sadly lacking in good receive audio. Too much hiss and
too tinny sounding. In a word, tiring to listen to for long periods of
time.
I thought about giving up and going back to my trusty TS480 with its
: [Elecraft] K3 RX Audio
I am mostly a rag chewer and enjoy armchair copy audio. To that end, I
found the K3 was sadly lacking in good receive audio. Too much hiss and too
tinny sounding. In a word, tiring to listen to for long periods of time.
I thought about giving up and going back to my trusty
Ok, I see it on your website.
73, Ted W4NZ
-Original Message-
From: Ted Bryant [mailto:w...@comcast.net]
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2013 11:02 AM
To: 'elecraft@mailman.qth.net'
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 RX Audio
Bill,
Are you using headphones or a speaker? And can you please describe
Maybe I'm just deaf to the hiss everyone complains about, but I have to say my
impression of K3 receive audio is considerably different. I do have the
modified board, etc. And I haven't used the internal speaker since the first
day I finished the radio.
I do use a pair of RCA 40-5035
Trevor Dunne wrote:
I am allmost ready to order my K3 but I keep reading about people that are
unhappy with the RX audio,
Is this still a problem ….
Hi Trevor,
No, it is not still a problem.
When the K3 first shipped, it had a few issues affecting audio that have all
since been
On 7/19/2013 8:45 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
No, it is not still a problem.
I'm a retired audio professional, and I've always been happy with the
K3's audio. I have always used headphones for serious operating, and
have outboard speakers for armchair monitoring.
The only issues I have had
...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Trevor Dunne
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2013 4:16 AM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 RX Audio
Hi All
I am allmost ready to order my K3 but I keep reading about people that are
unhappy with the RX audio,
Is this still a problem or has there been changes made
...I found the K3 was sadly lacking in good receive audio. Too much hiss and
too tinny sounding... tiring to listen to for long periods of time.
My sediments exactly, when I first got my K3 (#1823). I'm an ex-audio pro too.
However, after the audio board upgrade, and the 'newer' software (4.51?),
...@bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - RX audio degradation with ANF
To: Bill b...@w2blc.net
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Message-ID:
74bdcaf3-fca6-44df-a0e5-21728e101...@bellsouth.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I think we may be comparing apples to oranges here.
In the K3
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - RX audio degradation with ANF
ANF is the common use abbreviation for Auto Notch Filter. A
lot of rigs use
that nomenclature.
The K3's ANF on SSB has not worked correctly IMO for several
firmware
releases. Someone posted a fix a while back that involved
You said, They have gotten so good lately that it is barely
preceptible, but its there, you can see it on a spectrum analyser.
(Google Sabine Adaptive Audio to see a representative device, their
older devices sound quite similar to what you hear in the K3 ANF; the
newer ones are truly
I think we may be comparing apples to oranges here.
In the K3 digital ANF, the notch filter is looking for coherent signals. The
premise is that audio is less coherent than a CW carrier. Thus the ANF finds
the coherent CW carrier and notches it out, leaving the remaining audio.
On May 19,
I am reposting this question, as I received no responses the first time:
I generally only use the ANF when it is needed. I do not run it all the
time. The reason I do not run the ANF all the time is a slight
degradation of the quality of the SSB received audio when it is engaged.
Although it does
Bill,
Please enlighten me - I have searched through the K3 manual, and do not
find anything labeled ANF
If you would please give whatever you are trying to run the same label
used in the K3 manual perhaps we can provide some answer.
73,
Don W3FPR
On 5/18/2012 7:52 AM, Bill wrote:
I am
My reaction was the same - I think he's referring to Automatic Notch Filter.
Art - N4PJ
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 8:12 AM, Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com wrote:
Bill,
Please enlighten me - I have searched through the K3 manual, and do not
find anything labeled ANF
If you would please
That would be the button labeled as NTCH. It is described on page 25 of
the owner's manual as Auto Notch.
Bill W2BLC
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Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
*Don,
your not alone but I guessed it was Auto-Notch Filter..:-)
Bill is correct though, there is distortion when I have AGC=12 and SLP=2
but if I go to AGC=8 it appears to be almost gone.
Not sure why this is?
73's
Gary
*
On 18 May 2012 22:12, Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com wrote:
Bill,
The Auto Notch of the K3 is outside the AGC loop and therefor will notch the
carrier NOTE but NOT the carrier. Many foreign rigs have the Auto Notch inside
the AGC loop and this results in optimal operation with no distortion.
This may have something to do with down conversion receivers such
ANF is the common use abbreviation for Auto Notch Filter. A lot of rigs
use that nomenclature.
The K3's ANF on SSB has not worked correctly IMO for several firmware
releases. Someone posted a fix a while back that involved resetting back
to factory settings, rolling back to a previous firmware,
That's the trouble with acronyms - they inhibit the flow of information (or
should I have said they IFI? :-)
73, Ron AC7AC
-Original Message-
ANF is the common use abbreviation for Auto Notch Filter. A lot of rigs use
that nomenclature...
Tim
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 5:35 AM, Gary
. I think the Notch is working very well as
currently designed.
73,
Bill
K9YEQ
-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Tim Tucker
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 10:57 AM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3
Yes, that is normal. When you switch to FM you are listening to a much wider
portion of the band you are on.
73,
Tom
Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
ARRL Lifetime Member
QCWA Lifetime Member 35102
On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 22:50:37 -0800, Pete-Astound is2d...@astound.net wrote:
One question I still
will hear
it.
John G4ZTR
-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of n...@n5ge.com
Sent: 25 November 2011 08:13
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] RX audio distorted on FM
Yes, that is normal. When you
Morning All,
Sounds good and makes total sense..
Thank you for the responses..
Pete - WD6DKW
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Post:
Hi Tom:
Very true. And, another factor is that most FM receiver IF circuits
run the circuit gain at maximum. The resultant signal becomes
distorted, but only in the sense that amplitude variations are
totally removed. No matter, of course, since you want to detect the -
frequency-
Actually, no, not for FM. Just as you say, most FM receiver IF
circuits run the circuit gain at maximum. Also, a conventional FM
receiver IF contains one or more limiter stages. Quieting is not a
function of reduced IF gain - it is a function of the limiter.
Quieting is observed as signal
HI Bob:
Yeah... that's what I meant! :) There is that point where there is
no further signal gain is possible.. i.e. hard limiting. So, you are
quite correct.
Thanks!
73 de Ray
K2ULR
On Nov 25, 2011, at 12:18 PM, Bob Cunnings wrote:
Actually, no, not for FM. Just as you say, most FM
Happy Thanksgiving to All,
Just installed the KFL3B-FM Filter to my older K3.
Tuning around on 10 this morning I heard a station, but
things just didn't sound quite right. I fired up the 817
and found that the transmit audio sounds great, but the
receive audio sounds distorted as though it
Pete,
Please tell us the rest of the story. Do you have the 2.7/2.8 filter
set for SSB reception, or are you trying to use the FM filter for SSB
reception?
If you moved the 2.7/2.8 kHz filter to a different slot, you must tell
the K3 firmware where it is now. K3 Utility simplifies the
Afternoon Don and the group,
Thanks for the quick response..
We're running the stock 2.7 filter in slot 3 and the FM
filter in slot 1.. CW and SSB all running fine with no
issues.. In fact, the FM didn't sound half bad coming thru
the 2.7 filter while playing around with it this afternoon.
Good evening All,
Well I've had a chance to play around some more and now
found that at least with a local signal from the 817 the
audio distortion on FM receive seems to have mysteriously
disappeared.
One question I still have though is that with an antenna
hooked up and listening on either
You're right, Paul -- I skimmed right past the pink idea (oops) and
interpreted the poster's concern as a more common one that customers
have brought up, namely that they can hear higher-order products (above
the nominal communications passband).
Sloping the response is a very simple thing
Hi fellow Elecrafters,
The K3 is the best pleasant radio I ever had, but it also is one of the
most ear fatiguing I've ever listened to on voice.
I'm very surprised about this because Wayne's brilliant design should be
able to sound like the very finest sound equipment. The DACs and audio
paul bijpost wrote:
The white atmospheric band noise (we all love her) should somewhere
down the
line be converted to (near) pink audio noise before it hits our ears.
Band noise is filtered three times before it gets to the AF amp: at the
crystal filter, the DSP I.F. filter, and the DSP
Dave, W7AQK sed:
If I read it right, Bill, W4ZV, is responding to Doug by quoting Fred!
Yup...that's right! The problem here is lack of a data dictionary.
Fred calls wide for cw as just under 1kc. I do too! My operating
style is well documented on many reflectors and I like a wide cw
filter
DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote:
It never ceases to
amaze me how I can call some gnat signal which would normally be
covered by a loud, close station unless I used a narrow filter, and
the guy will return my call. Clearly, he is not hearing the loud
guy as loudly as I am (if at all)...and he must also
Tree wrote:
http://www.kkn.net/~tree/160/3b7cQSO.mp3
MP3 is probably not a good choice for critical evaluation of the audio
of a DSP based system, as it involves heavy additional DSP to produce
it. In particular, MP3 works by limiting close in dynamic range
(because the ear cannot hear
Here is a sound sample from the K3. It is best listened to in Stereo.
This took place on 160 meters about 20 minutes ago. I am still walking
on air.
http://www.kkn.net/~tree/160/3b7cQSO.mp3
There is normally an electric fence in the direction I was listening to,
but notice you can't hear it.
] On Behalf Of Tree
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 10:24 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 RX Audio
Here is a sound sample from the K3. It is best listened to in Stereo.
This took place on 160 meters about 20 minutes ago. I am still walking
on air.
http://www.kkn.net/~tree
On Thu, Sep 20, 2007 at 07:54:38AM -0700, Darwin, Keith wrote:
A very quiet band, very little noise.
Using a beverage to the SouthWest - and yes - the band was quiet,
but part of this is the context filter in the K3. It really
helps.
A weak nearly subliminal signal.
Yup - that's him. I
On Thu, 20 Sep 2007, Darwin, Keith wrote:
OK, here's what I hear.
A very quiet band, very little noise.
A weak nearly subliminal signal.
A rough sounding sidetone (hum on the sidetone).
I'm glad you posted the aboveI listened twice and was going to call the
audiologist for a hearning
I'd check his logbook for N6TA ;-)
Thanks so much for the sample Tree, very sweet. And
that was really 160 meters? whoa. !
[Elecraft] K3 RX Audio
Darwin, Keith Keith.Darwin at goo.com
Thu Sep 20 10:54:38 EDT 2007
Previous message: [Elecraft] K3 RX Audio
OK, here's what I hear.
A very quiet
Tree,
I'm a little unsure of what I was hearing (except your call!). Maybe
it's just me (or my ears or the stereo! hi hi!), but I can just barely
make out that there is another station.
Regarding the noise: Would it be possible to do an A/B test
(with/without noise)? I think that
Tree, I'm a little unsure of what I was hearing
(except your call!).
I hear deep fading on the band, Tree calls, then TR?
from the other side then Tree calling through a deep
fade and into a peak where the other station carries
the peak with N6TA, then
a matter
of personal preference I guess.
David
G3UNA
- Original Message -
From: Tree [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 3:23 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 RX Audio
Here is a sound sample from the K3. It is best listened to in Stereo
Tree wrote:
Here is a sound sample from the K3. It is best listened to in Stereo.
This took place on 160 meters about 20 minutes ago. I am still walking
on air.
http://www.kkn.net/~tree/160/3b7cQSO.mp3
Well, I listened to it several times and it sure does sound like he came
back to
On Thu, Sep 20, 2007 at 07:28:31PM +0100, David Cutter wrote:
What were your filter settings? Sounds like a couple of hundred hertz.
So - the filter I was using is something like this:
150 hertz in the center of the passband. This has a rather sharp cutout, but
only goes down something like
On Thu, Sep 20, 2007 at 01:20:11PM -0700, Vic K2VCO wrote:
Tree wrote:
Here is a sound sample from the K3. It is best listened to in Stereo.
This took place on 160 meters about 20 minutes ago. I am still walking
on air.
http://www.kkn.net/~tree/160/3b7cQSO.mp3
Well, I listened to it
This laptop has most every program known - but
whatever the Rx Sound file is - Windows XP
never heard of the file type, and will not allow
it to be played here?
Fred
N3CSY
Catch up on fall's hot new
On 9/20/07, Fred (FL) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This laptop has most every program known - but
whatever the Rx Sound file is - Windows XP
never heard of the file type, and will not allow
it to be played here?
Very odd Fred. It's in MP3 format which Windows Media Player should
be able to play
On Thu, 20 Sep 2007, JT Croteau wrote:
On 9/20/07, Fred (FL) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This laptop has most every program known - but
whatever the Rx Sound file is - Windows XP
never heard of the file type, and will not allow
it to be played here?
Very odd Fred. It's in MP3 format which
Congrats Tree! I actually never heard him give your
call correctly. Here's what I copied:
!st response: N6TA 5NN N6TA BK
Then your exchange
2nd response: (??? something ending in a dit)...CFM 3B7C
I guess you have to assume the CFM means he
got it OK but he actually never
Didn't really want to add to the postings but wanted to agree with
Bill's assessment. It will be interesting so see what the online log
says and who the operator was.G3SED or GM3POI? Good stuff anyway, and
so early in the season. Says a lot for the K3, so I guess I will be
spending more time
, September 20, 2007 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Audio
On Thu, Sep 20, 2007 at 07:28:31PM +0100, David Cutter wrote:
What were your filter settings? Sounds like a couple of hundred hertz.
So - the filter I was using is something like this:
150 hertz in the center of the passband
I was able to get the Rx Sound file to work,
via Microsoft's media player. K3 CW very readable,
in not too quiet a band, and a very faint return
CW came back - had much trouble reading it.
I take it this was a K3 in QSO, and it was
ok. At least this shows that a K3 exists somewhere
out there!
wb8yqj at yahoo.com
Thu Sep 20 11:29:32 EDT 2007
Previous message: [Elecraft] K3 RX Audio
Next message: [Elecraft] K3 - straight key and bug
I hear deep fading on the band, Tree calls, then TR?
from the other side then Tree calling through a deep
fade and into a peak where the other station
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