On Jun 14, 2012, at 3:39 AM, Peter da Silva wrote:
> On 2012-06-13, at 10:41, David Cantrell wrote:
>> My first impressions of Go are good, but that means it's off-topic.
>
> It looks way too high level to replace 'C'.
>
> Oh, sorry, I mean "optional semicolons? rant rant!"
What could be bette
On 2012-06-13, at 10:41, David Cantrell wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 06:55:31AM -0500, Peter da Silva wrote:
>> On 2012-06-11, at 13:08, Aaron J. Grier wrote:
>>> On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 03:49:15PM -0500, Peter da Silva wrote:
On 2012-05-19, at 11:43, Michael G Schwern wrote:
> Or st
On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 06:55:31AM -0500, Peter da Silva wrote:
> On 2012-06-11, at 13:08, Aaron J. Grier wrote:
> > On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 03:49:15PM -0500, Peter da Silva wrote:
> >> On 2012-05-19, at 11:43, Michael G Schwern wrote:
> >>> Or still using it, basically unchanged, as our primary sy
On 2012-06-11, at 13:08, Aaron J. Grier wrote:
> On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 03:49:15PM -0500, Peter da Silva wrote:
>> On 2012-05-19, at 11:43, Michael G Schwern wrote:
>>> Or still using it, basically unchanged, as our primary system
>>> programming language in 2012.
>> Yeh, it really sucks that in
On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 03:49:15PM -0500, Peter da Silva wrote:
> On 2012-05-19, at 11:43, Michael G Schwern wrote:
> > Or still using it, basically unchanged, as our primary system
> > programming language in 2012.
>
> Yeh, it really sucks that in 50 years nobody has ever been able to
> develop a
On 14/05/12 17:28 Luke Kanies wrote:
On May 14, 2012, at 9:06 AM, Robert Rothenberg wrote:
[Snip!]
But Puppet is special in that it's intended to be a *descriptive* language.
So you describe how your servers are to be configured.
Sounds nice, except... it has side effects. Which makes the
Michael G Schwern wrote:
>
> The third is distraction. For some reason every language which started out to
> replace C gets distracted by dreams of being an application language. I'm
> thinking Java (was originally supposed to run on set top boxes), Objective-C
> and C++ It is particularly curi
On 2012-05-21, at 16:22, Michael G Schwern wrote:
The first is "the enemy of the best is good enough" and C was good enough...
for a time. It solved a problem (portable machine programming) better and
faster than its contemporaries and even much later languages.
Not just "good enough", I used
On May 21, 2012, at 2:22 PM, Michael G Schwern wrote:
This is a personal observation, folks to code C like details of bits and
registers and hardware details and such.
Novices like to prattle on about C being just another assembly
language, but they don't know what they're talking about.
On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 02:53:52PM -0700, David Parsons wrote:
>Novices like to prattle on about C being just another assembly
>language, but they don't know what they're talking about.
No, C-- was just another assembly language. Actually it was a slightly
C-like wrapper language that expected
On 2012.5.20 4:40 AM, Peter da Silva wrote:
> Smalltalk was also not low level enough to be used as an alternative to C.
> It wouldn't even fit in the PDP-11 they started with.
Never claimed it was.
>> The list was done evaluating C as a language we use and are heavily
>> influenced
>> by in 20
Peter da Silva wrote:
>
> I'll give you the fall-through in case.
There are some other things that were fixed in later versions:
Single namespace for structure and union members
No function argument type checking
There are some things that haven't been fixed:
const
Operators (particularly * &
On 2012-05-19, at 16:54, Michael G Schwern wrote:
Smalltalk was in production in 72 making it a contemporary with C. Smalltalk
80 was the first released version, roughly coinciding with the K&R book. And
Simula had all the trappings of a modern OO language (and a lot most still
don't have) in 1
On 18 May 2012 22:07, Michael G Schwern wrote:
> switch fall through. (still a classic mistake).
I guess you mean defaulting to falling through? Yeah that probably
should have defaulted to the other way, even though C's approach
matches what actually happens. On the other hand i seem to remember
* Greg McCarroll [2012-05-19 23:00]:
> Lisp machines[1] didn't exactly take off. C++/STL didn't have anyone
> build upon it for other languages significantly (i'm sure i'm about to
> be proven wrong here) , just for sheer mischief i'll mention Topaz[2].
Bagging on C as a language is like bagging
On 2012.5.19 1:46 PM, Peter da Silva wrote:
> Smalltalk came out ten years later.
Smalltalk was in production in 72 making it a contemporary with C. Smalltalk
80 was the first released version, roughly coinciding with the K&R book. And
Simula had all the trappings of a modern OO language (and a
On 2012.5.15 1:41 PM, Jarkko Hietaniemi wrote:
>> Otherwise I haven't come across this problem in other major languages...
>> except maybe C. And original C has so many design flaws that the list would
>> become useless.
>
> You will have to back that up somehow, laddie. And get offa my lawn.
I
On 2012-05-18, at 15:07, Michael G Schwern wrote:
Bagging on C is like bagging on Shakespeare. They were severely limited in
hardware, didn't have a whole lot of prior art to go on and not a whole lot of
people to talk to about it. Smalltalk, ML, Pascal, Prolog, Lisp and SQL all
came out about
On 2012-05-19, at 11:43, Michael G Schwern wrote:
Or still using it, basically unchanged, as our primary system programming
language in 2012.
Yeh, it really sucks that in 50 years nobody has ever been able to develop a
genuinely better alternative.
* Michael G Schwern [2012-05-19 18:50]:
> Or still using it, basically unchanged, as our primary system
> programming language in 2012.
Indeed: why oh why… One has to wonder.
On 19 May 2012, at 21:38, Aristotle Pagaltzis wrote:
* Michael G Schwern [2012-05-19 18:50]:
Or still using it, basically unchanged, as our primary system
programming language in 2012.
Indeed: why oh why… One has to wonder.
Just to play the devil sitting on the devil's advocates shoulde
On 2012.5.18 2:18 PM, Jarkko Hietaniemi wrote:
> [ a long list snipped]
>
> Now, tell us how you *really* feel about C?
http://schwern.net/img/Hate%20dog.jpg
> In case you didn't guess it yet, I was playing advocatus diaboli in
> reverse here. (In modernese: trolling.) In other words, your li
On 2012.5.14 9:38 AM, demerphq wrote:
> On 14 May 2012 14:34, David Cantrell wrote:
>> I wouldn't mind if it was disabled by default and if I had to explicitly
>> enable it per file, with something like 'no strict cpp'.
>
> Couldnt this just be a filter/preprocessor thingee?
Filter::cpp has exis
On 2012.5.15 1:41 PM, Jarkko Hietaniemi wrote:
>> Otherwise I haven't come across this problem in other major languages...
>> except maybe C. And original C has so many design flaws that the list would
>> become useless.
>
> You will have to back that up somehow, laddie. And get offa my lawn.
>
> And since you asked, off the top of my head...
>
[ a long list snipped]
Now, tell us how you *really* feel about C?
In case you didn't guess it yet, I was playing advocatus diaboli in
reverse here. (In modernese: trolling.) In other words, your list
and argument was good, though many items we
On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 10:22:55AM -0700, Robert G. Werner wrote:
> On 05/16/2012 03:22 AM, Peter Corlett wrote:
[...]
>> I'd like to see somebody try and write an operating system kernel in Perl
>> :)
> I'm sure it could be written, ... once
There is the Perlix userspace:
http://collaboration.cm
On 05/16/2012 03:22 AM, Peter Corlett wrote:
On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 01:41:09PM -0700, Jarkko Hietaniemi wrote:
[...]
Otherwise I haven't come across this problem in other major languages...
except maybe C. And original C has so many design flaws that the list
would become useless.
You will hav
On 2012-05-15, at 15:39, Michael G Schwern wrote:
I've heard that same story but about the hard tab in make. Smells like an
urban legend... or proof that programmers care too much about backwards
compatibility.
Well, he really did say there were N sites using it, and N was small. But it
was
On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 01:41:09PM -0700, Jarkko Hietaniemi wrote:
[...]
>> Otherwise I haven't come across this problem in other major languages...
>> except maybe C. And original C has so many design flaws that the list
>> would become useless.
> You will have to back that up somehow, laddie. And
On 2012.5.14 2:47 AM, H.Merijn Brand wrote:
> * undef/NULL handling
>
> * Oracle converts "" to NULL on varchar2 fields
> * MySQL considers the date -00-00 both NULL and NOT NULL at
> the same time
I would boil that down to "trinary logic". A good idea that NOBODY gets it
right. If
On 2012.5.14 2:06 AM, demerphq wrote:
> On 14 May 2012 02:17, Michael G Schwern wrote:
>> So much hate for tying the iterator to the data and not the op.
>
> Indeed. I see this bite people regularly at $work (non Perl
> programmers converting seem to get bitten by each() at least once in
> their
On 2012.5.14 5:08 AM, Aristotle Pagaltzis wrote:
> * Peter Corlett [2012-05-14 12:20]:
>> On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 11:06:59AM +0200, demerphq wrote:
>>> I kinda wish perl had an interface like
>>
>>> my $iter= iterator(%hash);
>>> while (my ($key,$value)= $iter->each) { }
>>
>>> Which I think would
On 2012.5.14 3:17 AM, Peter da Silva wrote:
> On 2012-05-14, at 05:03, Peter Corlett wrote:
>> On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 07:35:39PM -0500, Peter da Silva wrote:
>> [...]
>>> Like "*x" for indirection. Even Dennis agrees that was a mistake. He said
>>> that by the time he noticed it there were three s
Otherwise I haven't come across this problem in other major languages...
except maybe C. And original C has so many design flaws that the list would
become useless.
You will have to back that up somehow, laddie. And get offa my lawn.
(I can somewhat understand if your basic premise is simply
On 2012.5.14 2:44 AM, Numien wrote:
> But, that is another good point:
> * We'll add file access and persistent storage later
Still don't count that as a design mistake in Javascript, but a design
feature. It was designed as a secure language and that means very, very
restricted I/O and storage.
On 15 May 2012 12:22, Peter da Silva wrote:
On 2012-05-14, at 10:58, H.Merijn Brand wrote:
Reminds me of an April-fools article introducing "COME FROM" to the
language to ease debugging. In the end of that article they also
described "COME FROM ON ...". Hilarious
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Darrell Fuhriman wrote:
>
> I'm personally of the opinion that they should abandon the custom DSL in
> favor of a pure ruby implementation, but I seem to be on the losing end
> of that argument.
This is one of the weirder design decisions of Puppet, given how
fashionable embedded DSLs are in the
Well, while we're ranting about stupid language design desisions...
I would like to dish out a special platter of hate for Puppet.
Well, not a programming language per se.
But Puppet is special in that it's intended to be a *descriptive* language.
So you describe how your servers are to be conf
On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 05:15:56AM -0500, Peter da Silva wrote:
> On 2012-05-14, at 07:51, David Cantrell wrote:
> > For extra excitement, perl has this nifty feature where you can index
> > from the end of an array using negative numbers:
> > @array = ('ant', 'bat', 'camel', 'dolphin');
> > prin
On 2012-05-14, at 07:51, David Cantrell wrote:
For extra excitement, perl has this nifty feature where you can index
from the end of an array using negative numbers:
@array = ('ant', 'bat', 'camel', 'dolphin');
print $array[-1]; # dolphin
print $array[-2]; # camel
That really _is_ a nifty f
On 2012-05-14, at 10:58, H.Merijn Brand wrote:
> Reminds me of an April-fools article introducing "COME FROM" to the
> language to ease debugging. In the end of that article they also
> described "COME FROM ON ...". Hilarious
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COMEFROM
> http://www.fortran.com/come
On May 14, 2012, at 9:06 AM, Robert Rothenberg wrote:
Well, while we're ranting about stupid language design desisions...
I would like to dish out a special platter of hate for Puppet.
I know this is a hate mailing list, not a "defend your baby" list, but this
particular hate is kinda my fa
Well, while we're ranting about stupid language design desisions...
I would like to dish out a special platter of hate for Puppet.
Well, not a programming language per se.
But Puppet is special in that it's intended to be a *descriptive* language.
So you describe how your servers are to be conf
* Abigail [2012-05-14 16:34 +0200]:
> Although it wouldn't surprise me if MySQL used a configuration option that
> turns on case insensitive table names.
I'm fairly certain it does. I recall having to turn on something like
that when we were evaluating some software whose developer apparently
wo
On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 01:51:11PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
> On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 11:13:05AM +0200, Abigail wrote:
>
> > * Let's make where to count from a switch -- globally
> > * Perl (till it got removed from the language)
>
> Nope. From the manpage:
>
> " As of release 5 of Perl,
On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 04:34:28PM +0200, Abigail wrote:
> On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 01:51:11PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
> > On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 11:13:05AM +0200, Abigail wrote:
> >
> > > * Let's make where to count from a switch -- globally
> > > * Perl (till it got removed from the langu
On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 2:51 PM, David Cantrell wrote:
For extra excitement, perl has this nifty feature where you can index
from the end of an array using negative numbers:
@array = ('ant', 'bat', 'camel', 'dolphin');
print $array[-1]; # dolphin
print $array[-2]; # camel
I leave it as an e
On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 11:13:05AM +0200, Abigail wrote:
> * Let's make where to count from a switch -- globally
> * Perl (till it got removed from the language)
Nope. From the manpage:
" As of release 5 of Perl, assignment to $[ is treated as a compiler
directive, and cannot influence the
It was thus said that the Great Peter Corlett once stated:
> On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 11:20:37AM -0400, Sean Conner wrote:
> [...]
> > Are you kidding? It can get much worse than that. I came across a
language
> > [1] that allows for patterm matched random GOSUBs (and that's the
general
> > case---i
On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 11:20:37AM -0400, Sean Conner wrote:
[...]
> Are you kidding? It can get much worse than that. I came across a language
> [1] that allows for patterm matched random GOSUBs (and that's the general
> case---it can do GOSUBs like other langauges, but it can also do random
> GOS
On Mon, 14 May 2012 11:20:37 -0400, Sean Conner wrote:
> It was thus said that the Great Peter Corlett once stated:
> > On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 10:48:13AM -0700, Michael G Schwern wrote:
> > >
> > > * Use the same function for two totally different things.
> > > * eval BLOCK; eval STRING
> > >
It was thus said that the Great Peter Corlett once stated:
> On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 10:48:13AM -0700, Michael G Schwern wrote:
> >
> > * Use the same function for two totally different things.
> > * eval BLOCK; eval STRING
> > * select FILEHANDLE; select BITS, BITS, BITS, TIMEOUT
>
> Don't fo
On 2012-05-14, at 06:07, Aaron Crane wrote:
Since these two enhancements aren't entirely compatible, the current
situation is unfortunate: a "+"-prototyped argument must be an
unblessed array or hash ref — not a blessed reference, and not an
autovivifying undef (so `push $x, list` doesn't work on
On 14 May 2012 14:34, David Cantrell wrote:
On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 04:58:49PM -0700, Michael G Schwern wrote:
On 2012.5.13 3:41 PM, David Cantrell wrote:
> Perl used to have this. It was called #include. It's a damned shame
> that -P got killed off. Removing it was hateful.
Let's run one la
On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 04:58:49PM -0700, Michael G Schwern wrote:
> On 2012.5.13 3:41 PM, David Cantrell wrote:
> > Perl used to have this. It was called #include. It's a damned shame
> > that -P got killed off. Removing it was hateful.
> Let's run one language through another language's prepro
On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 01:28:45PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
>Storyserver was supposed to be a
>content management system, but when I used it it couldn't handle binary
>file uploads - so you couldn't use it to upload images. Their
>"solution" to this was to send us some C source which was "unt
On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 2:28 PM, David Cantrell wrote:
On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 08:06:28AM +0200, Philip Newton wrote:
Vignette StoryServer?
I had a bit of a go with that... back when the language was Tcl, not Java.
Fun times. Especially counting the backslashes. Do we need four here?
Five? Seve
On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 03:01:05PM +0200, Philip Newton wrote:
> > because we don't have a compiler in the UK".
> That makes me wonder whether UK refers to the Ukraine in this context
> What an extremely odd thing for a company to say.
What our client said was odder. They said "we want you to
On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 08:06:28AM +0200, Philip Newton wrote:
> On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 1:58 AM, Michael G Schwern wrote:
> > The only other instance I can think of is... damn I can't remember the name.
> > It's the one that makes URLs like /foo/bar/123,3598,235.html. You write in
> > Java and e
* Peter Corlett [2012-05-14 12:20]:
> On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 11:06:59AM +0200, demerphq wrote:
> > I kinda wish perl had an interface like
>
> > my $iter= iterator(%hash);
> > while (my ($key,$value)= $iter->each) { }
>
> > Which I think would be sane. You could even pass the iterator
> > without
On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 11:47 AM, H.Merijn Brand wrote:
* Oracle converts "" to NULL on varchar2 fields
Oh goodness yes. Whoever thought that was a good idea? And built such
an SQL incompatibility into a major database engine?
Cheers,
Philip
--
Philip Newton
On Sun, 13 May 2012 10:48:13 -0700, Michael G Schwern
wrote:
> * Significant whitespace
> * Python
> * Oh god why Kurila
> * YAML does it right
> * So does Ruby
One more (besides what I wrote about MySQL)
C-preprocessor. The only compiler I know of that does it wrong allways
is the very
Michael G Schwern wrote:
> * No namespaces
> * Lua, Javascript
Lua does have namespaces, by changing which table is used for globals.
There are amusing incompatibilities in this area between 5.1 and 5.2 ...
Tony.
--
f.anthony.n.finchhttp://dotat.at/
Fisher, German Bight: Southwest 4 or 5
Michael G Schwern wrote:
On 2012.5.13 11:36 AM, Peter Corlett wrote:
I'd like to throw in the fun breakage caused by the combination of adding
two unnecessary bits of syntactic sugar to Perl. Somebody decided that
auto-deref would be nice, so you can do "each $hashref" and "pop $arrayref".
And
Walt Mankowski wrote:
>
> * Everything is a string.
> * Tcl
I like the term "stringly typed".
Tony.
--
f.anthony.n.finchhttp://dotat.at/
Shannon: Northwest 5 to 7, perhaps gale 8 later. Rough or very rough. Showers.
Good, occasionally moderate.
On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 10:48:13AM -0700, Michael G Schwern wrote:
>
> * Auto declare undeclared variables
> * PHP, Ruby
> * Typo protection out the window
* Perl (unless you enable 'use strict "vars"', and don't fully qualify
your vars; no such protection possible on subs if you use
On Sun, 13 May 2012 10:48:13 -0700, Michael G Schwern
wrote:
> * A typed language with no way to define new types
> * SQL
* Follow the "standard" only optionally
All SQL dialects allow spaces as the SQL standard sais
SELECT bar, count (*) FROM frublt GROUP BY bar;
^ ^
Peter Corlett wrote:
> I'd like to throw in the fun breakage caused by the combination of adding
> two unnecessary bits of syntactic sugar to Perl. Somebody decided that
> auto-deref would be nice, so you can do "each $hashref" and "pop $arrayref".
> And then somebody else clearly huffed a bit too
On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 10:54:39AM +0100, Tony Finch wrote:
> Andy Armstrong wrote:
> > On 13 May 2012, at 18:48, Michael G Schwern wrote:
> > > * Lists count from 0
> > > * Everybody does it
> > > * Everybody's wrong
> > > * See also "let's just paste what C does"
> >
> > I find it very hard t
On 14 May 2012 02:17, Michael G Schwern wrote:
> So much hate for tying the iterator to the data and not the op.
Indeed. I see this bite people regularly at $work (non Perl
programmers converting seem to get bitten by each() at least once in
their career).
In the case of hashes I think tying it
OOn 14/05/12 04:03 AM, Michael G Schwern wrote:
AFAIK none of that is part of the Javascript language (ie. the ECMAscript).
They're all special objects with their own standards and require special
implementations. I don't believe you can write them in Javascript. And it's
all fairly recent hist
On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 11:06:59AM +0200, demerphq wrote:
[...]
> I kinda wish perl had an interface like
> my $iter= iterator(%hash);
> while (my ($key,$value)= $iter->each) { }
> Which I think would be sane. You could even pass the iterator without
> passing the hash itself. (Preventing modific
Andy Armstrong wrote:
> On 13 May 2012, at 18:48, Michael G Schwern wrote:
> > * Lists count from 0
> > * Everybody does it
> > * Everybody's wrong
> > * See also "let's just paste what C does"
>
> I find it very hard to live with Lua's 1-based arrays. I don't think
> it's just familiarity - lo
On 2012-05-14, at 05:03, Peter Corlett wrote:
On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 07:35:39PM -0500, Peter da Silva wrote:
[...]
Like "*x" for indirection. Even Dennis agrees that was a mistake. He said
that by the time he noticed it there were three sites using "C" so they
thought it was probably too late t
On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 07:35:39PM -0500, Peter da Silva wrote:
[...]
> Like "*x" for indirection. Even Dennis agrees that was a mistake. He said
> that by the time he noticed it there were three sites using "C" so they
> thought it was probably too late to fix it.
I heard the "there were three si
On 2012-05-14, at 02:00, Aristotle Pagaltzis wrote:
* Peter da Silva [2012-05-14 02:45]:
* Imagining that there's some relationship between computer languages
and human languages.
* See COBOL
* See Perl
* Imagining that there's no relationship between computer languages and
linguistic c
Peter da Silva wrote:
>
> * Imagining that there's some relationship between computer languages and
> human languages.
> * See COBOL
> * See Perl
See AppleScript. Here's an epic rant on the subject:
http://daringfireball.net/2005/09/english-likeness_monster
Tony.
--
f.anthony.n.finchh
On 2012.5.13 11:06 PM, Philip Newton wrote:
> On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 1:58 AM, Michael G Schwern wrote:
>> The only other instance I can think of is... damn I can't remember the name.
>> It's the one that makes URLs like /foo/bar/123,3598,235.html. You write in
>> Java and everything, even the te
On 2012.5.13 11:18 PM, Numien wrote:
> On 13/05/12 07:58 PM, Michael G Schwern wrote:
>> I can forgive Javascript of that because it has no file operations by (good)
>> design and thus no way to load other files.
>
> Sure it does. See XMLHttpRequest the new HTML5 web storage, app cache, and
> socke
On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 9:00 AM, Aristotle Pagaltzis wrote:
> * Mathematical notation is ideal for programming!
See also: the thousands of new programmers confused by "x = 5;" not
meaning "x is equal to 5", despite what they had learned in maths
class.
(I'm reminded of a BASIC dialect on our 64K
* Peter da Silva [2012-05-14 02:45]:
> * Imagining that there's some relationship between computer languages
> and human languages.
> * See COBOL
> * See Perl
* Imagining that there's no relationship between computer languages and
linguistic cognition.
* Mathematical notation is ideal for
On May 14, 2012, at 12:00 AM, Aristotle Pagaltzis wrote:
* Peter da Silva [2012-05-14 02:45]:
* Imagining that there's some relationship between computer languages
and human languages.
* See COBOL
* See Perl
* Imagining that there's no relationship between computer languages
and
l
On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 1:58 AM, Michael G Schwern wrote:
The only other instance I can think of is... damn I can't remember the name.
It's the one that makes URLs like /foo/bar/123,3598,235.html. You write in
Java and everything, even the templates, is stored in Oracle.
Vignette StoryServer?
, and it
>> wasn't at all clear they'd ever be able to be implemented
>> efficiently in something like C.
> Yeah, I probably should have put a smiley after C. I was thinking
> about the schism into C++ and ObjC, but we can't really blame Ritchie
> for that.
On May 13, 2012, at 7:13 PM, Walt Mankowski wrote:
On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 09:07:56PM -0500, Peter da Silva wrote:
On 2012-05-13, at 20:55, Walt Mankowski wrote:
* We'll add classes later.
* C
Classes were still a kind of experimental idea in 1970, and it
wasn't at all clear they'd ever be
On 2012-05-13, at 20:55, Walt Mankowski wrote:
* We'll add classes later.
* C
Classes were still a kind of experimental idea in 1970, and it wasn't at all clear they'd ever be able to be implemented efficiently in something like C.
On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 09:07:56PM -0500, Peter da Silva wrote:
> On 2012-05-13, at 20:55, Walt Mankowski wrote:
> > * We'll add classes later.
> > * C
>
> Classes were still a kind of experimental idea in 1970, and it
> wasn't at all clear they'd ever be able to be implemented
> efficiently in s
* Michael G Schwern [2012-05-13 19:50]:
> * We'll add threads later.
> * Perl
* We'll add threads.
('Some people, when confronted with a problem, think, "I know, I'll use
threads," and then two they hav erpoblesms.' ---Ned Batchelder)
And a much worse one as far as Perl is concerned:
On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 10:48:13AM -0700, Michael G Schwern wrote:
> * We'll add threads later.
> * Perl
* We'll add classes later.
* C
* Perl
* Everything is a string.
* Tcl
On 2012-05-13, at 12:59, Andy Armstrong wrote:
On 13 May 2012, at 18:48, Michael G Schwern wrote:
* Lists count from 0
* Everybody does it
* Everybody's wrong
* See also "let's just paste what C does"
I find it very hard to live with Lua's 1-based arrays. I don't think it's just
familiarity
Ever since I’ve dealt with them in XPath I would add
Humans start counting from 1 so the computer should too
to whatever else would be on my list in the spirit of Schwern’s.
Oh yes, add to the list of stupid language designer tricks:
* Imagining that there's some relationship between co
On 2012.5.13 11:36 AM, Peter Corlett wrote:
> I'd like to throw in the fun breakage caused by the combination of adding
> two unnecessary bits of syntactic sugar to Perl. Somebody decided that
> auto-deref would be nice, so you can do "each $hashref" and "pop $arrayref".
> And then somebody else cl
* Andy Armstrong [2012-05-13 20:05]:
> I find it very hard to live with Lua's 1-based arrays. I don't think
> it's just familiarity - lots of index calculations work out
> significantly more verbose and ugly with 1-based arrays.
Ever since I’ve dealt with them in XPath I would add
Humans sta
On 2012.5.13 3:41 PM, David Cantrell wrote:
> On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 02:13:28PM -0400, Numien wrote:
>> On 13/05/12 01:48 PM, Michael G Schwern wrote:
>>> The rpmbuild post reminded me of my list of stupid language designer
>>> tricks.
>>> This is a file I
On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 02:13:28PM -0400, Numien wrote:
> On 13/05/12 01:48 PM, Michael G Schwern wrote:
> >The rpmbuild post reminded me of my list of stupid language designer
> >tricks.
> >This is a file I add to every time I read about some stupid mistake (or
> &g
On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 10:48:13AM -0700, Michael G Schwern wrote:
[...]
> * Lists count from 0
> * Everybody does it
> * Everybody's wrong
> * See also "let's just paste what C does"
0's good because it avoids fencepost errors. Perhaps you would prefer the
Stan Kelly-Bootle compromise of 0.
On 13/05/12 01:48 PM, Michael G Schwern wrote:
The rpmbuild post reminded me of my list of stupid language designer tricks.
This is a file I add to every time I read about some stupid mistake (or
"brilliant" feature) in a language and think "if I ever write a language I am
rememb
On 13 May 2012, at 18:48, Michael G Schwern wrote:
* Lists count from 0
* Everybody does it
* Everybody's wrong
* See also "let's just paste what C does"
I find it very hard to live with Lua's 1-based arrays. I don't think it's just
familiarity - lots of index calculations work out signifi
The rpmbuild post reminded me of my list of stupid language designer tricks.
This is a file I add to every time I read about some stupid mistake (or
"brilliant" feature) in a language and think "if I ever write a language I am
remembering not to do THAT!"
But really I'
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