Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-31 Thread Markus Hanauska
On 2011-05-30, at 22:27 , Philip Homburg wrote: If you are really worried about this, then I guess you can also just assign two prefixes to a single link and use one for SLAAC and the other for DHCPv6. Of course this is possible, but this also means, that a node not doing DHCPv6 (because it

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-31 Thread Philip Homburg
In your letter dated Tue, 31 May 2011 11:12:13 +0200 you wrote: Of course this is possible, but this also means, that a node not doing = DHCPv6 (because it does not support it or because it is disabled on the = node), will only get an address of the SLAAC prefix and thus has to go = to through the

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-31 Thread Mohacsi Janos
On Tue, 31 May 2011, Markus Hanauska wrote: On 2011-05-30, at 22:27 , Philip Homburg wrote: If you are really worried about this, then I guess you can also just assign two prefixes to a single link and use one for SLAAC and the other for DHCPv6. Of course this is possible, but this also

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-31 Thread Mohacsi Janos
On Tue, 31 May 2011, Mohacsi Janos wrote: On Tue, 31 May 2011, Markus Hanauska wrote: On 2011-05-30, at 22:27 , Philip Homburg wrote: If you are really worried about this, then I guess you can also just assign two prefixes to a single link and use one for SLAAC and the other for

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-31 Thread Markus Hanauska
On 2011-05-31, at 11:19 , Philip Homburg wrote: No, ND is more clever than that. All traffic between prefixes that are on-link goes directly between the hosts. Even when the prefix is off-link it is possible for the router the send a redirect ICMP to cause further traffic to be directly

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-31 Thread Mohacsi Janos
On Tue, 31 May 2011, Markus Hanauska wrote: On 2011-05-31, at 11:19 , Philip Homburg wrote: My main problem with that approach is, that not everyone has a $5000++ Cisco router available and the configuration capabilities of some more inexpensive routers are quite limited; especially

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-31 Thread Mikael Abrahamsson
On Tue, 31 May 2011, Philip Homburg wrote: No, ND is more clever than that. All traffic between prefixes that are on-link goes directly between the hosts. Even when the prefix is off-link it is possible for the router the send a redirect ICMP to cause further traffic to be directly between

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-31 Thread Philip Homburg
In your letter dated Tue, 31 May 2011 11:54:57 +0200 you wrote: I don't think this related to ND, is it? ICMP redirects also exist for = IPv4 and IPv4 doesn't know ND. I think only difference is that ICPMv6 = optionally allows an link layer address in the redirect message. How = good IPv6

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-31 Thread Markus Hanauska
On 2011-05-31, at 12:10 , Mohacsi Janos wrote: If you get /64 and you need more subnets from your provider then probably you asked something wrong. Or you have the wrong provider... but if this is the only provider available in your area, that can offer you a symmetric 100 MBit/s fibre

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-31 Thread Philip Homburg
In your letter dated Tue, 31 May 2011 12:28:01 +0200 (CEST) you wrote: On Tue, 31 May 2011, Philip Homburg wrote: No, ND is more clever than that. All traffic between prefixes that are on-link goes directly between the hosts. Even when the prefix is off-link it is possible for the router the

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-31 Thread Philip Homburg
In your letter dated Tue, 31 May 2011 12:37:05 +0200 you wrote: Or you have the wrong provider... but if this is the only provider = available in your area, that can offer you a symmetric 100 MBit/s fibre = connection for business purposes, what are you going to do? Move your = whole company

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-31 Thread Mikael Abrahamsson
On Tue, 31 May 2011, Philip Homburg wrote: I hope there is a recommendation in the standard to have a knob to turn this off? With security functions like forced-forwarding and alike, I'd definitely not want the hosts to try to communicate directly between each other. A prefix only becomes

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-31 Thread Mohacsi Janos
On Tue, 31 May 2011, Markus Hanauska wrote: On 2011-05-31, at 12:10 , Mohacsi Janos wrote: If you get /64 and you need more subnets from your provider then probably you asked something wrong. Or you have the wrong provider... I agree. but if this is the only provider available in

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-31 Thread Markus Hanauska
On 2011-05-31, at 12:35 , Philip Homburg wrote: The difference is that IPv4 has a model of one subnet per link. Why do you think so? The computer I'm using right now has two IP addresses of different IP subnets on the same network interface (and I really mean the same layer 2 network, there

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-31 Thread Mohacsi Janos
On Tue, 31 May 2011, Markus Hanauska wrote: But don't you think it helps a lot to push a new technology to mainstream if it is possible to also use this technology without any expensive hardware or complicated configurations? My main argument was (and still is), that through a couple of

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-31 Thread Philip Homburg
In your letter dated Tue, 31 May 2011 13:06:20 +0200 (CEST) you wrote: Absolutely, but if there is another way than to announce the on-link prefix than might make hosts communicate directly to each other on a subnet, that's news to me and I find this extremely interesting from a security

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-31 Thread Markus Hanauska
On 2011-05-31, at 13:09 , Mohacsi Janos wrote: What collision? You should use 'u' bit accrdingly: 1 - if automaticaly assigned 0 - if manually assigned. But it is also 0 for SLAAC addresses w/ privacy extension and those are automatically assigned, in example. You can argument for

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-31 Thread Mikael Abrahamsson
On Tue, 31 May 2011, Philip Homburg wrote: I have no idea why you want hosts on the same vlan and then use L2 filtering to prevent them from communicating directly. But yes, if the router would then start sending redirects, it would create a mess. This has been a common deployment scenario

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-31 Thread Philip Homburg
In your letter dated Tue, 31 May 2011 13:19:39 +0200 you wrote: On 2011-05-31, at 12:35 , Philip Homburg wrote: The difference is that IPv4 has a model of one subnet per link. Why do you think so? The computer I'm using right now has two IP = addresses of different IP subnets on the same network

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-31 Thread Markus Hanauska
On 2011-05-31, at 13:38 , Mohacsi Janos wrote: I disagree with introduction of another flags. This requires substantial changes in the codes Which will take ages I took a look at the IPv6 implementations of Mac OS X (which comes from the BSD world) and Linux a couple of weeks ago.

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-31 Thread Markus Hanauska
On 2011-05-31, at 14:01 , Philip Homburg wrote: I would say that having an interface with two IPv4 addresses is not really in the model. Maybe it is rather uncommon, but it is allowed and also supported by all major operating systems; just wanted to point that out. But SHOULD is a bit

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-31 Thread Mohacsi Janos
On Tue, 31 May 2011, Markus Hanauska wrote: On 2011-05-31, at 13:38 , Mohacsi Janos wrote: I disagree with introduction of another flags. This requires substantial changes in the codes Which will take ages I took a look at the IPv6 implementations of Mac OS X (which comes from

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-31 Thread Philip Homburg
In your letter dated Tue, 31 May 2011 14:45:24 +0200 you wrote: Is DHCPv6 more expensive than DHCPv4? Since even the most minimalistic = device with IPv4 support I know of has DHCPv4 support; however, you = might be referring to devices even more minimalistic than what I have in = mind. I

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-30 Thread Markus Hanauska
On 2011-05-23, at 23:56 , Mark Smith wrote: Christopher Morrow christopher.mor...@gmail.com writes: Just say that at startup time, invoke SLAAC DHCPv6 both. Then use whatever is available. That would have been simple and predictable. (And avoided 10GB of mailing list discussion!) I'm

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-30 Thread Philip Homburg
In your letter dated Mon, 30 May 2011 12:47:19 +0200 you wrote: Conflict resolution is not really necessary. What kind of conflict do you have to solve? If a network runs a DHCPv6 server that also hands out addresses, th e network operators probably want people to use DHCPv6 over SLAAC, so if a

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-30 Thread Philip Homburg
In your letter dated Mon, 30 May 2011 12:47:19 +0200 you wrote: Then a node has both, a SLAAC address and a DHCPv6 address. Where is the probl em? The only problem I can think of is the issue I was trying to discuss here a couple of weeks ago: An address collision between SLAAC addresses and

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-25 Thread Mark Smith
Hi Doug, On Tue, 24 May 2011 15:36:31 -0700 Doug Barton do...@dougbarton.us wrote: On 05/24/2011 15:00, Templin, Fred L wrote: Good point; yes, even DHCPv6 requires link-locals. The link-locals could be manually configured, but it seems reasonable to assume that they would often be

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-25 Thread Tim Chown
On 24 May 2011, at 00:48, Christopher Morrow wrote: On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 7:07 PM, Manfredi, Albert E albert.e.manfr...@boeing.com wrote: Mark Smith wrote: Mark, as I suggested previously, DHCP is useful in cases where you need the IP addresses of hosts in a network to be predictable.

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-25 Thread RJ Atkinson
On Weds 25th May 2011, 09:17:40 +1200, Brian Carpenter wrote: As far as the document currently under discussion is concerned, surely we are done? Absolutely yes. And if some folks want to have a discussion about some topic other than what this document ought to say, it would be very pleasant

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-24 Thread Carsten Bormann
On May 24, 2011, at 01:48, Thomas Narten wrote: The one downside is that you run DHCP even if there are no DHCP servers. In some environments, that is extra traffic ... and an extra attack (if you happen to have RA-guard but no protection for DHCP). Maybe not that much of a difference, but

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-24 Thread james woodyatt
On May 23, 2011, at 4:48 PM, Thomas Narten wrote: The one downside is that you run DHCP even if there are no DHCP servers. In some environments, that is extra traffic the operator might not want. I recall many long threads about how the cost of those extra DHCP packets on a wireless

RE: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-24 Thread Templin, Fred L
Hi Thomas, -Original Message- From: ipv6-boun...@ietf.org [mailto:ipv6-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Narten Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 1:11 PM To: Brzozowski, John Cc: ipv6@ietf.org; Bob Hinden Subject: Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

RE: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-24 Thread Christopher Palmer
Very long thread I simply wanted to signal our (Windows Networking) support of DHCPv6 being a SHOULD, and I personally think the text below is entirely good. christopher.pal...@microsoft.com Program Manager IPv6 @ Windows -Original Message- From:

RE: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-24 Thread john.loughney
- From: ipv6-boun...@ietf.org [mailto:ipv6-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext james woodyatt Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 9:10 AM To: 6MAN Subject: Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD On May 23, 2011, at 4:48 PM, Thomas Narten wrote: The one downside is that you run DHCP

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-24 Thread Thomas Narten
Dumb question, but isn't the text making support for DHCPv6 a SHOULD, but not making it a SHOULD or MUST to run? Correct. It's a SHOULD to implement. Whether to use it is a separate discussion, and neither the Node Requirements or IPv6 specs address this. Thomas

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-24 Thread Mark Smith
: ipv6@ietf.org; Bob Hinden Subject: Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD Is the intention for the new text to relax the requirement for auto-configuration? No. SLAAC remains a MUST. DHCPv6 though is now a SHOULD. For one thing, DHCP doesn't have an option

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-24 Thread Brian E Carpenter
On 2011-05-25 08:14, Thomas Narten wrote: Dumb question, but isn't the text making support for DHCPv6 a SHOULD, but not making it a SHOULD or MUST to run? Correct. It's a SHOULD to implement. Whether to use it is a separate discussion, and neither the Node Requirements or IPv6 specs address

RE: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-24 Thread Templin, Fred L
To: Brzozowski, John Cc: ipv6@ietf.org; Bob Hinden Subject: Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD Is the intention for the new text to relax the requirement for auto-configuration? No. SLAAC remains a MUST. DHCPv6 though is now a SHOULD. For one

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-24 Thread Doug Barton
On 05/24/2011 15:00, Templin, Fred L wrote: Good point; yes, even DHCPv6 requires link-locals. The link-locals could be manually configured, but it seems reasonable to assume that they would often be autoconfigured using SLAAC. I'm confused (nothing new about that). In FreeBSD the OS creates

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-23 Thread Thomas Narten
Is the intention for the new text to relax the requirement for auto-configuration? No. SLAAC remains a MUST. DHCPv6 though is now a SHOULD. For one thing, DHCP doesn't have an option configure on-link prefixes, so we still need SLAAC. What we should have done oh-so-long-ago is ensure that you

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-23 Thread Ralph Droms
Thomas - (hoping to fan the discussion) I think operators have expressed the desire to operate networks in DHCP-only mode, and the response has been No, you don't really want to operate your networks that way. If operators came forward again with a strong desire to operate networks using only

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-23 Thread Christopher Morrow
On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 4:21 PM, Ralph Droms rdroms.i...@gmail.com wrote: Thomas - (hoping to fan the discussion) I think operators have expressed the desire to operate networks in DHCP-only mode, and the response has been No, you don't really want to operate your networks that way. one

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-23 Thread Thomas Narten
Christopher Morrow christopher.mor...@gmail.com writes: one gotcha with 'dhcp only' is perhaps folks mean: slaac to signal v6 is on-net, but require full config from a dhcpv6 server. How does a host know that v6 is available otherwise? (this may be why someone said you don't really want to do

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-23 Thread Brian E Carpenter
Thomas, On 2011-05-24 09:11, Thomas Narten wrote: Christopher Morrow christopher.mor...@gmail.com writes: one gotcha with 'dhcp only' is perhaps folks mean: slaac to signal v6 is on-net, but require full config from a dhcpv6 server. How does a host know that v6 is available otherwise? (this

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-23 Thread Mark Smith
Hi Thomas, On Mon, 23 May 2011 17:11:28 -0400 Thomas Narten nar...@us.ibm.com wrote: Christopher Morrow christopher.mor...@gmail.com writes: one gotcha with 'dhcp only' is perhaps folks mean: slaac to signal v6 is on-net, but require full config from a dhcpv6 server. How does a host

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-23 Thread Brian E Carpenter
Mark, On 2011-05-24 09:56, Mark Smith wrote: ... I'm not particularly pro-SLAAC, however I sit back and wonder what is missing from it that makes DHCP essential? To be blunt, that conversation isn't worth having. SLAAC is clearly essential for isolated or bootstrapping networks to

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-23 Thread Mark Smith
On Tue, 24 May 2011 10:13:17 +1200 Brian E Carpenter brian.e.carpen...@gmail.com wrote: Mark, On 2011-05-24 09:56, Mark Smith wrote: ... I'm not particularly pro-SLAAC, however I sit back and wonder what is missing from it that makes DHCP essential? To be blunt, that conversation

RE: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-23 Thread Manfredi, Albert E
Mark Smith wrote: 3.2 If there are several ways of doing the same thing, choose one. If a previous design, in the Internet context or elsewhere, has successfully solved the same problem, choose the same solution unless there is a good technical reason not to. Duplication of the

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-23 Thread Christopher Morrow
On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 7:07 PM, Manfredi, Albert E albert.e.manfr...@boeing.com wrote: Mark Smith wrote: Mark, as I suggested previously, DHCP is useful in cases where you need the IP addresses of hosts in a network to be predictable. I have no idea why cable systems want DHCP, but I'm

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-23 Thread Thomas Narten
ok, so ... as a thought experiment, in v4 you wake up, decide you have no address and are supposed to dhcp for that.. in v6, you wake up decide you have no address (and don't know if v4/v6 are available)... if you are configured for v6 dhcp, you make that request and get all the 'right'

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-23 Thread Christopher Morrow
On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Thomas Narten nar...@us.ibm.com wrote: ok, so ... as a thought experiment, in v4 you wake up, decide you have no address and are supposed to dhcp for that.. in v6, you wake up decide you have no address (and don't know if v4/v6 are available)... if you are

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-23 Thread Thomas Narten
I guess I was thinking that today you have a device, it either is configured to do dhcp or is manually configured or just is broken. In the v6 world you could just forget MO and require someone to configure (via os config tweaks that already exist for v4 anyway) dhcpv6 if anything more

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-15 Thread Brzozowski, John
Interesting point Bob raises. Thomas, Is the intention for the new text to relax the requirement for auto-configuration? The new DHCPv6 text should be in addition to support for stateless auto-configuration to ensure other deployment models are supported. John

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-15 Thread Brzozowski, John
Ralph, Thomas, John, The attributes that come to mind are those that are DNS related via RFC6106. In theory I suppose what John mentioned could be an issue, however, in a broadband DOCSIS environment we only support stateful DHCPv6 for provisioning today as such I do not anticipate seeing these

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-15 Thread Brzozowski, John
Alex, In DOCSIS deployments there are no issue with RAs and we do know how to configure the default route. DHCPv6 is used mainly for address, prefix, and configuration information. John = John Jason Brzozowski Comcast Cable e)

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-15 Thread Brzozowski, John
Bert, I sent some mail earlier on this topic. We do require it for provisioning via the WAN interface. On the LAN we aim to ensure there is greater flexibility. I just want to make sure it is clear that cable broadband does not require the use of DHCPv6 in the premise. This is a local

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-15 Thread Brian E Carpenter
On 2011-05-16 07:40, Timothy E. Enos wrote: Hi Bob, Thanks for your reply. I would say that partly because there are so many different deployment models that MAY is precisely what is informed here. That said, an acceptable alternative for me would be that it be SHOULD for both DHCPv6 and

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-15 Thread Seiichi Kawamura
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Just read this thread. This is so great. Thanks to Thomas and all for the new text. Seiichi (2011/05/14 8:32), Brian Haberman wrote: All, The chairs have determined that there is a strong consensus to elevate DHCPv6 to SHOULD support in the

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-13 Thread Ralph Droms
Thomas... On May 13, 2011, at 9:37 AM 5/13/11, Thomas Narten wrote: Per a previous thread, there are indications that the WG may now be willing to recommend that DHCPv6 be a SHOULD for all hosts. This is based on the following rationale: Thomas Narten nar...@us.ibm.com writes: I

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-13 Thread Tim Chown
On 13 May 2011, at 14:45, Ralph Droms wrote: New: t DHCPv6 xref target='RFC3315' / can be used to obtain and configure addresses. In general, a network may provide for the configuration of addresses through Router Advertisements, DHCPv6 or both. Some operators have

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-13 Thread Scott Brim
On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 09:45, Ralph Droms rdroms.i...@gmail.com wrote: Looks fine and appropriate to me, with one nit: s/DHCP/DHCPv6/ in the last line. +1 IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative

RE: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-13 Thread Templin, Fred L
Please respond yes or no. Given the WG's previous hesitation to having DHCPv6 be a SHOULD, it is important that we get a clear indication of whether or not the WG supports this change. Should be a SHOULD. Fred Thomas

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-13 Thread Bob Hinden
Thomas, On May 13, 2011, at 6:37 AM, Thomas Narten wrote: Per a previous thread, there are indications that the WG may now be willing to recommend that DHCPv6 be a SHOULD for all hosts. This is based on the following rationale: Thomas Narten nar...@us.ibm.com writes: I personally would

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-13 Thread Thomas Narten
Bob, Bob Hinden bob.hin...@gmail.com writes: While I support changing the requirement to a SHOULD, I would prefer the text to be something like: t DHCPv6 xref target='RFC3315' / can be used to obtain and configure addresses. In general, a network may provide for the

RE: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-13 Thread john.loughney
Hi all, In general, I support Thomas' text, but I still think some clarification is needed: New: t DHCPv6 xref target='RFC3315' / can be used to obtain and configure addresses. In general, a network may provide for the configuration of addresses through Router

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-13 Thread Ralph Droms
On May 13, 2011, at 12:02 PM 5/13/11, Thomas Narten wrote: Bob, Bob Hinden bob.hin...@gmail.com writes: While I support changing the requirement to a SHOULD, I would prefer the text to be something like: t DHCPv6 xref target='RFC3315' / can be used to obtain and configure

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-13 Thread Thomas Narten
Hi John. Should we give some guidance on what to do if both mechanisms are available on a network, the methods give contradictory information? I don't think it is enough to say that both SHOULD be supported, without giving additional clarification on what it means when both are supported.

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-13 Thread Ralph Droms
John... On May 13, 2011, at 12:19 PM 5/13/11, john.lough...@nokia.com wrote: Hi all, In general, I support Thomas' text, but I still think some clarification is needed: New: t DHCPv6 xref target='RFC3315' / can be used to obtain and configure addresses. In general, a

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-13 Thread Timothy E. Enos
Hi Thomas, Thanks for posting this. IMO, a SHOULD is not required in a SOHO environment (which is arguably not a corner case for deployment). MAY works. Just as some environments may require the use of DHCPv6, some environments may not. For those that require use of DHCPv6, they MAY use

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-13 Thread Bob Hinden
Timothy, On May 13, 2011, at 9:28 AM, Timothy E. Enos wrote: Hi Thomas, Thanks for posting this. IMO, a SHOULD is not required in a SOHO environment (which is arguably not a corner case for deployment). MAY works. Just as some environments may require the use of DHCPv6, some

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-13 Thread Mikael Abrahamsson
On Fri, 13 May 2011, Thomas Narten wrote: Per a previous thread, there are indications that the WG may now be willing to recommend that DHCPv6 be a SHOULD for all hosts. This is based on the following rationale: I support moving it to SHOULD. -- Mikael Abrahamssonemail: swm...@swm.pp.se

RE: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-13 Thread john.loughney
9:28 AM To: Thomas Narten Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD Hi Thomas, Thanks for posting this. IMO, a SHOULD is not required in a SOHO environment (which is arguably not a corner case for deployment). MAY works. Just as some environments may

RE: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-13 Thread john.loughney
Hi Ralph, I think the IETF has been pretty good about keeping the information from the two sources independent. Regarding address assignment specifically, what contradictory information might be provided? I can imagine a node might get one address from SLAAC and another from DHCPv6, but

RE: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-13 Thread john.loughney
I also think that dealing with this issue in more detail may not be so easy, and it would be better to do that as updates to those documents (or a standalone document). E.g., even DHCP by itself has a longstanding vagueness about how to handle the merging of information received from

RE: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-13 Thread Basavaraj.Patil
; Bob Hinden Subject: Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD Thomas, On May 13, 2011, at 6:37 AM, Thomas Narten wrote: Per a previous thread, there are indications that the WG may now be willing to recommend that DHCPv6 be a SHOULD for all hosts. This is based

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-13 Thread Christopher Morrow
On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 1:12 PM, basavaraj.pa...@nokia.com wrote: I support elevating the requirement for DHCPv6 on nodes to a SHOULD. +1 (and thanks!) IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-13 Thread Wes Beebee
New:        t DHCPv6 xref target='RFC3315' / can be used to obtain and        configure addresses. In general, a network may provide for the        configuration of addresses through Router Advertisements,        DHCPv6 or both.  Some operators have indicated that they do        not intend

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-13 Thread Alexandru Petrescu
Le 13/05/2011 18:25, Thomas Narten a écrit : Hi John. Should we give some guidance on what to do if both mechanisms are available on a network, the methods give contradictory information? I don't think it is enough to say that both SHOULD be supported, without giving additional clarification

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-13 Thread Alexandru Petrescu
Le 13/05/2011 15:37, Thomas Narten a écrit : Per a previous thread, there are indications that the WG may now be willing to recommend that DHCPv6 be a SHOULD for all hosts. This is based on the following rationale: Thomas Nartennar...@us.ibm.com writes: I personally would support having DHCP

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-13 Thread james woodyatt
On May 13, 2011, at 09:28 , Timothy E. Enos wrote: Just as some environments may require the use of DHCPv6, some environments may not. Mobile hosts SHOULD implement DHCPv6 clients. I wouldn't oppose elevating the requirement further still to say that mobile hosts MUST implement DHCPv6

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-13 Thread Suresh Krishnan
Hi Thomas, On 11-05-13 09:37 AM, Thomas Narten wrote: Please respond yes or no. Given the WG's previous hesitation to having DHCPv6 be a SHOULD, it is important that we get a clear indication of whether or not the WG supports this change. Yes. I think that elevating DHCPv6 support to SHOULD

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-13 Thread Cameron Byrne
On May 13, 2011 11:28 AM, james woodyatt j...@apple.com wrote: On May 13, 2011, at 09:28 , Timothy E. Enos wrote: Just as some environments may require the use of DHCPv6, some environments may not. Mobile hosts SHOULD implement DHCPv6 clients. I wouldn't oppose elevating the requirement

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-13 Thread Randy Bush
Per a previous thread, there are indications that the WG may now be willing to recommend that DHCPv6 be a SHOULD for all hosts. aol fwiw, there are large broadband providers that provision using dhcpv4 today. randy IETF IPv6

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-13 Thread Wes Beebee
I do not believe there needs to be special wording for mobile Or for any other specific deployment for that matter. The reason I mentioned cable is because many popular operating system-based hosts as well as specific devices have to be able to operate in a cable environment ­ and the

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-13 Thread james woodyatt
On May 13, 2011, at 11:34 , Cameron Byrne wrote: On May 13, 2011 11:28 AM, james woodyatt j...@apple.com wrote: Mobile hosts SHOULD implement DHCPv6 clients. I wouldn't oppose elevating the requirement further still to say that mobile hosts MUST implement DHCPv6 clients. Why? Most

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-13 Thread Basavaraj.Patil
On 5/13/11 1:56 PM, ext james woodyatt j...@apple.com wrote: On May 13, 2011, at 11:34 , Cameron Byrne wrote: On May 13, 2011 11:28 AM, james woodyatt j...@apple.com wrote: Mobile hosts SHOULD implement DHCPv6 clients. I wouldn't oppose elevating the requirement further still to say that

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-13 Thread Behcet Sarikaya
On 5/13/11 1:56 PM, ext james woodyatt j...@apple.com wrote: On May 13, 2011, at 11:34 , Cameron Byrne wrote: On May 13, 2011 11:28 AM, james woodyatt j...@apple.com wrote: Mobile hosts SHOULD implement DHCPv6 clients. I wouldn't oppose elevating the requirement further

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-13 Thread Ed Jankiewicz
I support the idea of making DHCPv6 a SHOULD, and like the text revision proposed by Bob as amended by Ralph. As to the clarification of what to do in the event of inconsistent information when both methods are used, I agree that RFC 4862 covers it. If pushed, citing that RFC would be

RE: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-13 Thread Manfredi, Albert E
Ed Jankiewicz wrote: The comment from Tim that the DHCPv6 man not be of use in SOHO deployments, I think SHOULD still leaves enough wiggle room for a variety of implementations with different feature sets. I support SHOULD for DHCPv6 as well. But responding to the above, purely

RE: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-13 Thread Tony Hain
I agree with Ralph's text. -Original Message- From: ipv6-boun...@ietf.org [mailto:ipv6-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ralph Droms Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 9:23 AM To: Thomas Narten Cc: ipv6@ietf.org; Bob Hinden; Ralph Droms Subject: Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-13 Thread sthaug
Per a previous thread, there are indications that the WG may now be willing to recommend that DHCPv6 be a SHOULD for all hosts. This is based on the following rationale: I support moving it to SHOULD. Agreed. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sth...@nethelp.no

Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD

2011-05-13 Thread Brian Haberman
All, The chairs have determined that there is a strong consensus to elevate DHCPv6 to SHOULD support in the node requirements document. Since this is the last open issue with this document, the chairs will begin the advancement process when a new version is published. Regards, Brian Bob On