Ask Bjoern Hansen wrote:
Apache::DBI is turning the argument hashref into the cache key
with the following code,
my ($key, $val);
while (($key,$val) = each %{$args[3]}) {
$Idx .= $;$key=$val;
}
can anyone think of a good reason not to change that to
Rafiq Ismail (ADMIN) wrote:
Now my problem is that I have to assign which
Subclass I want to instantiate, based on the script and params.
So, you're asking how to map URLs to perl modules? Is there some reason
you aren't simply using httpd.conf or Apache::Dispatch? In my last MVC
design,
Ray Zimmerman wrote:
If I understand correctly, the Mason component that generates the page
the user sees would be considered the View. But where is the Controller?
I wrote a little about this in my templating guide, and there has been
discussion on the Mason list. A common approach is to
Dave Rolsky wrote:
On Wed, 29 May 2002, Perrin Harkins wrote:
There's no good reason to do an eval 'use'. Use require instead, and
import if you need to (but most people don't).
Actually, there is. This code:
my $module = 'Foo::Bar';
require $module;
is not the same
Rafiq Ismail (ADMIN) wrote:
I'm not so keen on loading all the inheriting classes into memory
beforehand
You really should do that, because it will save overall memory by
increasing the amount of memory that's shared. All modules should be
loaded during startup in the parent process.
It's
French, Shawn wrote:
Although this is working right now, I don't know enough [ anything? :) ]
about Apache or mod_perl to be sure that this will work in the future.
I can't see how it could be working now, unless it is actually creating
a new Telnet object on every request. Your %sessionHash
French, Shawn wrote:
Recall that I am using: Apache/1.3.20 (Win32) mod_perl/1.25_01-dev
mod_ssl/2.8.4 OpenSSL/0.9.6a on Windows 2000 with PHP 4.21
Would this be why my scripts are working?
Mystery solved! Yes, that's why. You are running mod_perl in single
process mode because you're on
First, there is no way to effectively pass compiled code between
processes at this time. It isn't likely to happen with Perl 5 because
attempts at loading compiled bytecode from disk have usually had poor
performance and other issues.
Second, what you're proposing is probably not a good idea
Jeff AA wrote:
do you use any standards for the data being
returned to the Controller? eg do you use a struct [ie hash/array Perl
primitive] or do you return an object? eg a table object etc?
HTML::Template requires you to pass a perl data structure. Template
Toolkit can handle objects as
Hi Jesse,
It's the addition tricks which bug me out. With those two words you
establish the mother of all slippery slopes to architecture oblivion. When
you have objects passing freely between your Controller and View (which
are quoted here, 'cuz I don't think they are separate in this
Dave Rolsky wrote:
Alzabo could handle a _lot_ of this for you. Class::DBI could handle some
of it (though less).
SPOPS is also a good choice for this. All of them are on CPAN, just
waiting for you.
- Perrin
Jeff AA wrote:
For example to render a date in Excel some jiggery pokey is required,
and I would also expect a HTML V to print pretty dates rather than
20020531172534 (or something other than the raw stringification)
Yes. That's why you need to use a good templating system. There is a
Rob Nagler wrote:
Layout managers accept a declaration ('this cell is northwest', 'this
other one expands across the bottom', etc.). They interpret the decl
at run-time. It's like HTML, but more declarative. Some attributes
of our Grid manager are:
cell_nowrap - don't wrap the text in
Rob Nagler wrote:
Let's say, though, that you want the same template to render
in a WAP, Opera, Konqueror, IE, NS, etc. The implementation of Grid
handles this for you. For example, our code automatically renders
style sheets for IE5+, but no other browsers. (This isn't in Grid,
but you
It seems problematic to me to require the programmers to do work
when a
designer wants to change the number of decimals in a page, for
example.
HTML::Template::Expr may present a solution to this particular desire,
although it isn't one I've come across. How often are HTML designers
It is interesting to try and fit our approach into the MVC+template
pattern
Just to clarify, it's not MVC+template; it's just MVC. The templates
are one way of implementing views. You could mix and match this where
appropriate, so that your Excel view is a perl module with a set of
A String widget/template allows you to control the rendering of all
fonts dynamically. If the String widget/template sees the incoming
request is from IE5+, it doesn't render the font if the font is the
same as the default font. The Style widget/template renders the
default font in a style
Rob Nagler wrote:
Perrin Harkins writes:
You can actually do that pretty comfortably with Template Toolkit. You
could use a filter for example, which might look like this:
[% FILTER font('my_first_name_font') %]
... some text, possibly with other template directives in it...
[% END
Rob Nagler wrote:
[Skirting on the edge of YATW. :-]
I certainly don't mean to have a templating war. I'm just trying to
figure out what the difference is between these approaches and if
there's something I've been missing that I should consider adding to
future applications.
Here's your
Udlei Nattis wrote:
hi, sorry my english ;)
when i add this line in httpd.conf
PerlModule DBI
or
use DBI(); in startup.conf
apache dont start, i receive this error:
/usr/local/apache-2.0/bin/apachectl: line 192: 12547 Segmentation
fault $HTTPD
Rob Nagler wrote:
The way I understand how plugins work is that they are arbitrary
classes. But how do you share behavior?
I probably wouldn't use a plugin for something that needed to output
HTML, because that would prevent the designers from editing it. A macro
(basically a
Stas Bekman wrote:
The ongoing discission of MVC is a good example
of a tutorial candidate
Incidentally, I already wrote a fair amount on this subject in the
eToys-related tutorial:
http://perl.apache.org/release/docs/tutorials/scale_etoys/etoys.html#Code_Structure
There's a diagram, code
Sam Tregar wrote:
Now, I don't use HTML::Template::Expr. I think it's generally not such a
good idea. But it's there if you want it...
For posterity, and possible inclusion in the next rev of the templating
tutorial, how would you recommend people handle this sort of situation
without
Bill Moseley wrote:
My MVC efforts often fall apart in the C an M separation. My M parts end
up knowing too much about each other -- typically because of error
conditions e.g. data that's passed to an M that does not validate. And I
don't want to validate too much data in the C as the C
I just ran down a problem that was somewhat hard to find, and I didn't
see any
mention of anything like it in the archives anywhere.
The expat issue has been discussed quite a bit on this list, and is
documented here:
http://perl.apache.org/guide/troubleshooting.html#Segfaults_when_using_X
What I didn't like about this is I then had to adjust the so-called
controller code that decoded the user input for my request object to
include these new features. But really that data was of only interest
to
the model. So a change in the model forced a change in the
controller.
No, a
We are going to be moving to mod_perl, but I am
worried about how to keep from getting into the same kind of trap with
mod_perl as with PHP.
You may want to read my article about building a large site with
mod_perl:
http://perl.apache.org/release/docs/tutorials/apps/scale_etoys/etoys.htm
l.
Jon Robison wrote:
I should never really have to edit
#3 (the Viewer), because the HTML construction should be done in #2. If
I find myself editing my viewer to accomodate some function I am adding
to the overall system, I know I need to re-think what I am doing.
In an MVC system, you would
Ray Zimmerman wrote:
So how is everybody else handling URL mapping?
In httpd.conf:
Location /search
SetHandler perl-script
PerlHandler Controller::Search
/Location
Location /cart
SetHandler perl-script
PerlHandler Controller::ShoppingCart
/Location
Most applications only have a
Jon Robison wrote:
In most cases the Handler is set to view, in which case View.pm
instantiates other modules objects, (and those instantiations use other
url string data to determine what to construct into the object). View
then just spits out the default head, body (created with the other
Valerio_Valdez Paolini wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2002, John Hurst wrote:
In the filesystem. Directly requested .tt files are all sent to a
default template handler:
...
I used html pages with augmented tags parsed by a standard handler:
Those are both interesting and may be the most
Ward Vuillemot wrote:
I know we are straying WOT, but I would love to get a better feel for XML, XSLT and
AxKit.
Barrie Slaymaker has written a couple of articles on perl.com that serve
as a good intro to AxKit.
- Perrin
John Hurst wrote:
Still, I don't think that replacing this:
Location /search
SetHandler perl-script
PerlHandler Controller::Search
/Location
with this:
[% Ctrl.Search() %]
makes Controller::Search any less a controller.
You're right. It just looks kind of odd to me,
Gerald Richter wrote:
Embperl 2.0 can invoke such a controller (it's called application object
there) after it has setup it's request parameters (GET/POST data, session
data, etc.) and before any templates are get a chance to run.
That sounds like a good addition to Embperl. Can you give a
Vuillemot, Ward W wrote:
There is a Apache::Session which is sufficient to check to see if they are
logged in, et cetera.
But I want to be able to remember the last query so that I can return
results into multple pages along with memory of where in the stack I am at.
You can store anything
Jeff AA wrote:
Agreed, but he wasn't talking about storing the results, just the query
parameters and current offset / number of rows, which is a-ok for
putting into a session.
No, that's exactly what ISN'T okay for putting into a session. If a
user opens two browser windows, does a search
John Siracusa wrote:
On 6/12/02 12:57 PM, Per Einar Ellefsen wrote:
But what if someone opens one of the links in a different window, and
continue on the same pages as in the original window, but with different
parameters? The session ID would be the same, the context id would be the
same, but
Rob Nagler wrote:
Stateful instances are also problematic. You have essentially two
paths through the code: first time and subsequent time. If you write
the code statelessly, there is only one path. Fewer bugs, smaller
code, less development.
I find you can tie this cache stuff up inside
Jeff AA wrote:
Interestingly MySQL and other DBs are often as fast as simple disk
access - contrary to popular wisdom, most DB engines actually cache in
memory, with more data access information and hence effective cache
memory usage than is available to external cache components. Yes,
Wow, this is a long one. As usual, everyone has slightly different
ideas about how to do MVC, so keep a grain of salt handy.
This basic pattern repeated ad infinitum. It's grown way out of
control, is a pain to work with, and just feels wrong, very wrong. :-)
We've all been there.
1. Is
md wrote:
What I'm really trying to do is more like the PHP I'm
replacing. I should be able to go to:
www.someserver.com/index.phtml for a dynamic page
and
www.someserver.com/index.html for a static page.
I'm guessing that my best solution would be to use
HTML::Mason or Apache::ASP
Fran Fabrizio wrote:
Now, how do you represent in the model a
complex query that joins across 5 of the nouns?
Others have already commented on this, but I want to point out that this
is a general OO modelling question, not an MVC one, and there are many
resources available to help you learn
Rob Nagler wrote:
A session is useful for very limited things, like remembering if this
user is logged in and linking him to a user_id.
We store this information in the cookie. I don't see how it could be
otherwise. It's the browser that maintains the login state.
My preferred design
In most cases the Handler is set to view, in which case View.pm
instantiates other modules objects, (and those instantiations use
other
url string data to determine what to construct into the object). View
then just spits out the default head, body (created with the other
objects) and
WO is amazing, no two ways about it. Once you use it, everything else
sucks. There are no exceptions.
That's kind of a rude statement to make on this list, where all of these
people are offering free software and support to you.
It's been a few years since I last evaluated WebObjects, but
My general motto is tiers eq tears ... I've never seen
a really comfortable OO/SQL bridge.
So who's talking about an OO/SQL bridge? Not me. At least not an
automatic one. I write the SQL by hand.
Group bys, order bys, multi-table selects, locking, SQL query
plans and index optimisation
This approach works for some things, but I think it falls down when it
comes to doing complex database searches, particularly searches
generated
ad-hoc on multiple columns in multiple tables.
In general, the user interface you provide for a search will be much
higher-level than the SQL that
An Object-Relational mapper takes objects and stores them in a
relational
database, as transparently as possible. I think the most pure example
of
this I've seen in the Perl world is Tangram
(www.tangram-persistence.org).
SPOPS is also an O-R mapper (actually, its a generic Object
Not quite sure what you mean here. The general WO request-response
loop is
1 Process request
2 Perform action
3 Return response
Step 3 is entirely dependent on the previous two, just like any
mod_perl/CGI/php app.
The introductory documentation makes it look each URL is tied to a
Does anybody know which is the technology behind Amazon?
If you look at their job listings, you'll see it's a lot of C/C++ and
Perl, with a smattering of other things, running on Unix. That's pretty
typical of the really big sites.
- Perrin
Also, a module map might be a good thing to create, i.e. an improved
version of this: http://perl.apache.org/src/apache-modlist.html.
Well, because the module list has now moved into the Perl Module List
entirely, we are removing it with the new site.
What I meant was that since you can't
Tony Bowden wrote:
I'd have to disagree. Maybe Mike had something different in mind when he
created Class::DBI, but as the current active developer on it, I'm
definitely pushing it in the R-O direction. Like Dave, I always start by
thinking of my database schema and then Class::DBI provides a
Prakash Chatterjee wrote:
Thanks people.
It turned out to be an Expat problem. As advised, we compiled Apache without
EXPAT - and hunky dory - it works.
Sorry about that, I steered you wrong: it was a mod_perl/apache problem.
I know about the Expat issue, but I didn't think either of
Ricardo Basto wrote
I'd like some feedback on this module I just wrote. It's something like a
reverse proxy, but intended as a gateway from the fully-functional
apache/mod_perl to another webserver, probably behind a firewall in the
corporate network.
That sounds just like mod_proxy's
Stas Bekman wrote:
the threaded mpms will need a new version/mode of Apache::DBI using
threads::shared, currently available only for 5.8.0-tobe, unless things
will get backported to 5.6.2. Currently it seems that the threaded mpms
will be safe to use only with 5.8.0, unless again things
md wrote:
I was just a bit worried about the amount of static
content. In the past I've had a lot more hardware to
work with and I never had to worry about it much.
Static content is easy; just don't serve it from mod_perl. The proxy
approach is good, and so is a separate image server
Andrey Prokopenko wrote:
After a fresh restart, I started Apache/mod_perl. Then i issued a
little stress test using simple perl script with LWP::Simple.
I ran a performance test on /mod_perl/index.pl page for 10 minutes. The
source code of that page is given below :
-
Andrey Prokopenko wrote:
I tried a plain Perl cgi script, with no module used, and still the
same. ;((
Do you mean that this leak cannot be fixed from Apache/mod_perl side ?
I can't say for sure since I don't use mod_perl on Win32, but most of
the process growth problems reported when using
Allen Day wrote:
Furthermore, this file doesn't exist in my filesystem. How is it possible
that (1) the module works without this apparently required file at the
command line but (2) doesn't work with apache/mod_perl ?
How is it possible? Two ways: you could be wrong about the existence of
Wilbur, Charlton wrote:
Or am
I looking at rolling my own RPMs or installing from source RPMs? My
suspicion, confirmed by Mr Turner, is that this is tied directly to shared
libraries and toolchains, and so I suspect further that the problem will go
away if I build everything from scratch
Jeff wrote:
Hey thanks for the reply. I am making progress but I have run into a
problem where when I have PerlRun enabled my scripts are not see the
field values being passed in the URL. I'm still using cgi-lib.pl not
CGI.pm.
I've never used cgi-lib.pl and you shouldn't either. That
Jeff wrote:
So here is my strategy that I would like a sanity check from anyone on.
Go through and quickly clean up my existing code by adding use strict
and localizing all my variables (with 'my' and 'local' for special
variables) and then run is under mod_Perl using the Apache::PerlRun.
Richard Clarke wrote:
Using Perrin's article on E-Toys is perhaps a good place to start. In the
Model object which performs various DB procedures, what actions were taken
if for some reason the connection to the database failed or if an SQL error
happened? Was the whole execute() block put in
F. Xavier Noria wrote:
I remember the article has a comment regarding a gotcha of the Error
module that causes memory leaks, but you didn't go into details there.
We've actually discussed this on the list. It has to do with closures.
Matt gave a presentation about exception handling which
Jason Wilkes wrote:
So far so good, and all works well. Except for one
user id (actually id=333), which causes an internal
server error. If I put print debugging lines in -
everything works (even for user 333). If I take them
out again all other users work fine except 333.
Can anybody throw
Mike Blazer wrote:
MB Or may be there is some way to un-load mod_perl after Perl sections
MB processing?
If you need Perl sections only to do initial web server
configuration and you do not need mod_perl features in runtime then
instead of using Perl just write Perl script to generate Apache
Michael Schout wrote:
in other words, if I understand the eToys article correctly, the leaks
only happen if I nest a try block inside another try block. I have
experimented some, and it appears to me that this is in fact the case
($count doesnt get cleaned up if there is a nested try).
Matt Sergeant wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jul 2002, Fran Fabrizio wrote:
Just to confirm, the end result of Matt's slide presentation was that
Error.pm was good, and you should use it, but you should not use the
try/catch syntax, or at the bare minimum only catch in your outermost
handler. Is that
Stas Bekman wrote:
If you are talking about threaded mpms, we will need to develop new
tools to restrict the size of the perl interpreters in the pool.
I was thinking about that too. Are there hooks for causing an
interpreter to exit? Is it safe to simply call CORE::exit? I'd like to
Stas Bekman wrote:
I think the idea was to have a special thread running whose only purpose
is monitoring the pool of idle interpreters.
That sounds like a better solution.
I believe that we can add a Perl space hook that sets a flag that
condemns an interpreter to death.
The other
Richard Clarke wrote:
I came across http://www.firstworks.com/sqlrelay.html the other day.
Have any of you come across this product before.
It's been discussed here before (see the archives) but no one has talked
about any real experience with it yet. Try it out and tell us what you
Elizabeth Mattijsen wrote:
Hmm... but you won't be able to fetch the $dbh from the thread. It
can only live in _that_ thread. You cannot pass objects between
threads. But you _can_ send queries to that thread, fetch a jobid for
that job and then obtain whatever was returned as a Perl
Richard Clarke wrote:
I mean in the case of the database crashing and being able to switch
to a replicated backup system.
That's trivial to implement if it happens during connect time. You can
simply keep a list of databases to try, and if one fails you go on to
the next. This approach
Boex,Matthew W. wrote:
can i have both Registry and PerlRun running in the same environment? i
have my cgi scripts running under Apache::Registry in one directory, and
want to run a legacy cgi script under PerlRun in another directory. is this
possible?
Yes, no problem at all.
- Perrin
Carwheel, Dan wrote:
although their web page says only works for C, C++, Java and a few
others, I've seen this page:
http://www.perlpod.com/stable/perlhack.html
on getting Perl work with with Purify.
That page is about getting Perl's C executable to work with Purify, not
using
Rob Nagler wrote:
Apologies to those who are tired of the *ML vs. Perl debate.
I think you're confusing the issue. You're not talking about in-line
Perl vs. templating languages, but rather templating vs. a whole
different concept.
Jean-Michel clearly wants to use HTML-based templates, and
David Wheeler wrote:
Why should Apache-print ever time out?
One reason could be a web client that disconnects. There could also be
a dropped network connection or one that's too slow. I think you can
adjust this behavior with the TimeOut directive in httpd.conf.
I didn't even know that
Dennis Haney wrote:
The bias in the test is even a little slanted towards the JSP
benchmarks since the trivial connection pooling I used there is
nothing like the Apache::DBI overhead in the mod_perl test, when I
could have just used a persistent global $dbh instead. ( maybe I
should? )
I
Josh Chamas wrote:
My only problem with Apache::DBI for a benchmark is its
default ping of the db per connect().
Oh, you're right I wasn't thinking about that. It is important in a
benchmark to be testing equivalent functionality as much as possible,
although it's very difficult to do.
I
Baljit Sethi wrote:
What I want to do is limit client logons to one logon per username ie
while a client has a session open, he/she cannot logon to the website
from another terminal.
The simplest thing to do is create a new session for the user each time
he logs in and invalidate any old
Eric Cholet wrote:
Someone recently suggested to me the following solution, based on slightly
modified sessions. It involves sending a cookie that contains a new ID
with
each response. The server stores that ID keyed on the user's login name.
The next request from the client is expected to
Dave Rolsky wrote:
It can, but I'm not sure what to update it to. Frankly, I think CPAN is
more at fault here given that _many_ people use CVS for this sort of stuff
and this quite normal when using CVS.
This is a common complaint about CPAN.pm, but it's kept this way so far
because of
Enrico Sorcinelli wrote:
Apache::SessionManager creates an object session (in Header parsing phase,
but not obligatorily) and make it available to all other handlers
transparently by putting in pnotes. Others handlers can retrieve session
directly from pnotes or by calling the simple
Enrico Sorcinelli wrote:
Some of the Apache::Auth* modules like Apache::AuthCookieURL are close,
but I don't know of any that do the actual glue with Apache::Session.
You might want to look at some of the existing modules and see if a
merge of some kind is possible.
This modules haven't
Enrico Sorcinelli wrote:
Incidentally there is also
a session manager module very similar to this in the Extropia modules.
Sincerely, I don't know Extropia modules!
You can find some documentation on them here:
Yair Lenga wrote:
The website I'm supporting is running both TOMCAT applications ('.war'),
and has mod_perl scripts (all of them are registry - CGI scripts). I
have the following requirements:
* The user identification information must be shared between TOMCAT
and mod_perl (so
darren chamberlain wrote:
Make those global symbols ($cookie, $user, and $hash) lexical (declare
with my) and the code will both compile and do what you expect (i.e.,
not maintain values from call to call).
That's what I was thinking too. Also, it's really not a good idea to do
your own
Ken Y. Clark wrote:
As for this and Perrin's comment about parsing on your own, the point
is that you've written a lot of code that has already been written and
debugged by a lot of really smart people. There's no reason for you
to be reading STDIN and spliting and all that. If you're using
Jonathan Lonsdale wrote:
2. Distinct content handlers each with their own Location directive. Could
be a pain to maintain the server config.
You would typically have a single handler that covers one application
with many screens, so instead of having an entry there for every
template you
md wrote:
Currently I'm putting very little in the session
Good. You should put in as little as possible.
what I am putting in the session is more global in
nature...greeting, current page number, current page
name...
That doesn't sound very global to me. What happens when users open
md wrote:
I don't think global was the term I should have
used. What I mean is data that will be seen on all or
most pages by the same user...like Hello Jim
Okay, don't put that in the session. It belongs in a cache. The
session is for transient state information, that you don't want to
md wrote:
We are using a load-balanced
system; I shoudl have mentioned that earlier. Won't
that be an issue with caching to disk? Is it possible
to cache to the db?
There are a few ways to deal with this. The simplest is to use the
sticky load-balancing feature that many load-balancers have.
md wrote:
I haven't looked at the cache modules docs yet...would
it be possible to build cache on the separate
load-balanced machines as we go along...as we do with
template caching?
Of course. However, if a user is sent to a random machine each time you
won't be able to cache anything
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
We are investigating using IPC rather then a file based structure but
its purely investigation at this point.
What are the speed diffs between an IPC cache and a Berkely DB cache. My
gut instinct always screams 'Stay Off The Disk' but my gut is not always
Ask Bjoern Hansen wrote:
The performance? I don't remember the exact figure, but it was at
least several times faster than the BerkeleyDB system. And *much*
simpler.
In my benchmarks, recent versions of BerkeleyDB, used with the
BerkeleyDB module and allowed to manage their own locking,
Peter J. Schoenster wrote:
If I'm using Apache::DBI so I have a persistent connection to MySQL,
would it not be faster to simply use a table in MySQL?
Probably not, if the MySQL server is on a separate machine. If it's on
the same machine, it would be close. Remember, MySQL has more work
Narins, Josh wrote:
Before I proceed, are there ANY content management/templating systems that
RELY EXCLUSIVELY on TAG ATTRIBUTE (name=value) nomenclature to allow
interaction between template and perl code?
Of course. HTML_Tree
(http://homepage.mac.com/pauljlucas/software/html_tree/)
Justin Luster wrote:
Does anyone know anything about flock and mod_perl?
Yes. There is no problem with flock and mod_perl. However, if you were
to open a filehandle in startup.pl and then use that same filehandle
after forking, that could be a problem.
Personally I would suspect Windows in
Chris wrote:
XP is based on the NT Kernel, and should have a working flock. I believe In
recent versions of 5.6.1 flock() is emulated on the 9x kernel as well.
However this doesn't mean mod_perl supports it
It does actually, since mod_perl is Perl. Thanks for the flock
clarification.
-
Justin Luster wrote:
The load tester that I'm using works fine with my script outside of
mod_perl.
Does it work when running them concurrently under CGI?
When multiple concurrent users began hitting the script under mod_perl,
using Apache::Registry or Apache::RunPerl all heck breaks loose.
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