On Sun, Dec 10, 2000 at 06:13:13PM +0800, Gunther Birznieks wrote:
It sounds to me like you have hit the nail on the head. Perhaps what is
needed in terms of recouping costs for a mod_perl hands-on development
course and/or online course is the open source/collaborative approach.
This
At 10:45 AM 12/8/2000 -0500, Richard Dice wrote:
"Randal L. Schwartz" wrote:
But here's the reality of trainings. You need to get 10 to 20 people
in a room at the same time that are all starting roughly at the same
skill level and also want to end up in the same place. And then you
On Sat, 9 Dec 2000, Gunther Birznieks wrote:
However, the fact is that their can be other distinguishing factors on a
CV, but to ignore those factors INCLUDING certs is just stupid unless you
have the luxury of only having some ridiculously low number of CVs to look
at and can spend that
The need for certification is a symptom of different problem, which is
that the interview process has become too casual. Interviewers are
uncomfortable asking the tought questions so they resort to asking the
candidate about his hobbies etc. Many years ago a friend of mine who
interviewed for HP
-Original Message-
From: Gunther Birznieks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
"Obviously they still have to be technically interviewed, but in lieu of
someone with or without certification, it's easier to short-list on the
basis of such certification (or some equivalent outstanding
"Randal L. Schwartz" wrote:
But here's the reality of trainings. You need to get 10 to 20 people
in a room at the same time that are all starting roughly at the same
skill level and also want to end up in the same place. And then you
need to do that about 8 to 20 times with the same slide
You miss the point.
It's not about credentials in a boolean sense. It's about
probability and
statistics.
That's exactly true - in fact I'd go so far to say that the probably and
statistics vary for each type of certification.
I trust an M.D.'s certification far greater than I trust
In a message dated 12/8/00 10:48:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
I can't figure out where the "start" and "finish" are with mod_perl
that would make sense for 80 to 400 people. It's not core techology,
like the llama. We target the llama as how you would want ANY
On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Paul wrote:
I would love to be able to list on my resumé that I was Perl and
mod_perl certified. How about publicity in the form of a page listing
certified Perl/modPerl coders on take23, with contact info if they
like? Great for getting those job offers.
We will be
z wrote:
"Gunther" == Gunther Birznieks [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Gunther This is exactly why someone experienced in training (ie
Gunther Randal/StoneHenge) would hopefully be the ones to take the
Gunther torch on this. If there's anyone I would trust a
Gunther certification from
already has the advantage.
"The jobseeker already has the advantage" is the key phrase. I think the
general idea is to balance that out and broaden both the job market for
mod_perl folks, and the talent pool of mod_perl programmers. At this
point, IMO certification is the end o
At 09:39 AM 12/8/00 -0600, Hill, David T - Belo Corporate wrote:
-Original Message-
From: Gunther Birznieks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
"Obviously they still have to be technically interviewed, but in lieu of
someone with or without certification, it's easier to short-list on the
if we were to look for a mod_perl certification, shouldn't this
group of fine, upstanding people be the ones to design it, and have
merlyn administer it through his site, or maybe this group could form
a subcommittee to do the dirty work (grading, signing certificates,
keeping track of certifica
: Are you in need of a mod_perl job? If so, I'm
willing to bet that there are employers who would snap you up in a second.
As has been said a few times here, certification is pretty pointless
unless you need some distinguishing factor. With mod_perl, the
distinguishing factor is that you're available
? If so, I'm
willing to bet that there are employers who would snap you up in a second.
As has been said a few times here, certification is pretty pointless
unless you need some distinguishing factor. With mod_perl, the
distinguishing factor is that you're available!
This is an interesting thread
find them, they're
quirky. ;)
I liked the idea of incorporating the local perl mongers groups into the
teaching/training/advocacy process. I proposed it to my local group as a
possibility. Perhaps it would help to get some standards though (similiar
to a certification process) that the groups could
Somebody wrote:
If I'm way off base, please let me know. I'm spending considerable
brain power on this idea and if I'm wasting it, I need to know. I
don't have much spare brain power and I could use it to try to figure
out my wife . . .
You're way off base. Figure out the wife. I've
. I think that certification would certainly
help. Where can I go to get mine?
John Reid wrote:
If I'm way off base, please let me know. I'm spending considerable
brain power on this idea and if I'm wasting it, I need to know. I
don't have much spare brain power and I could use it to try to fig
the truth?
well, it's doubtful that certification really resolves these
problems. all certification tells a potential employer is that
someone has had exposure to the technology, not how competent
they would be at providing solutions using it. even if someone
were able
On Thu, Dec 07, 2000 at 05:10:58PM -, John Reid wrote:
Certification may be an issue that deserves careful attention, before idiots
go and try to implement mod_perl solutions, make a complete pig's ear and
give us all a bad name.
I wouldnt be too worried about that. For better or worse, I
out my wife . . .
Ask yourself this question: Are you in need of a mod_perl job? If so, I'm
willing to bet that there are employers who would snap you up in a second.
As has been said a few times here, certification is pretty pointless
unless you need some distinguishing factor
on training. Also this will build loyalty and that translates into
lower turnover.
marc
ps I have never done any hiring in my life.
- Original Message -
From: Eric Strovink [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, 7. December 2000 12:52
Subject: Re: [certification
Eric,
You fail to understand that while you are probably a geeks dream boss, you are not the
average PHB. Heck, your hair is probably limp ;). The idea here is to gain acceptance
and even status with the PHB. PHB's like paper. It doesn't matter if its a useful
piece of paper or not (MCSE's
--On Thursday, December 07, 2000 12:52:44 PM -0500 Eric Strovink [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Somebody wrote:
If I'm way off base, please let me know. I'm spending considerable
brain power on this idea and if I'm wasting it, I need to know. I
don't have much spare brain power and I
See - I KNEW IT!!!
You aren't a PHB. You have to look at this like a PHB. PHB's don't care if the paper
means
anything relevant. PHB's live for Plausible Deniability and Glory Hogging. If they
can't
take credit for it, they don't want to get blamed for it either.
If anything goes wrong,
Certification does have its merits. I know this analogy is not
quite correct but its the only one that comes to mind. Would
you have a nurse or a doctor treat your abdominal pains? I rather
not have the abdominal pains in the first place but I rather
have the doctor treat me than the nurse
At the very least even if there is no certification, perhaps just a
training course on mod_perl from Merlyn/Stonehenge would act in lieu of such.
If I knew someone had trained for a week with Randal's company in either OO
Perl technology (PROM) or mod_perl (a course that doesn't seem to exist
certification, it's easier to short-list on the
basis of such certification (or some equivalent outstanding thing such as
contributing to CPAN).
Everyone knows that a University Degree in CS doesn't mean someone is a
great programmer. And there's a ton of people out there who prove
otherwise. BUT out
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
The day after the technology stabilizes one can decide
what to certify people to do.
If Perl6 is two+ years off, 5.6 certification makes sense.
If Apache2.0/Modperl2.0 are x:{x2,10} months off
are taking up a lot of Doug's and other mod_perl CPAN
--On Thursday, December 07, 2000 05:55:41 PM -0600 Jimi Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
See - I KNEW IT!!!
You aren't a PHB. You have to look at this like a PHB. PHB's don't care if the
paper means anything relevant. PHB's live for Plausible Deniability and Glory
Hogging. If they
At 06:30 PM 12/7/2000 -0800, Rob Tanner wrote:
--On Thursday, December 07, 2000 05:55:41 PM -0600 Jimi Thompson
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
See - I KNEW IT!!!
You aren't a PHB. You have to look at this like a PHB. PHB's don't care
if the
paper means anything relevant. PHB's live for
"Gunther" == Gunther Birznieks [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Gunther A lecture format is great for spreading the word at the
Gunther conferences, but hands-on training would be even better. Or
Gunther perhaps there isn't a demand for mod_perl training in which
Gunther case I guess that's a business
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